Original subtitles

At the side of the freeway right at the entry to the Paris airport...

stands a maiestic tree that signals my arrivals and departures.

lt's a cedar from Lebanon that must be at least 150 years-old.

The last time l went by on my way to the festival in Cannes...

the tree had a different message.

lt reminded me that it had seen the beginnings of photography...

and the entire history of cinema. which it might just as well survive.

so l arrived in Cannes with a question. that l asked my colleagues.

How long is the reel?

-10 minutes. -fine.

l've got this piece of paper that Wim Wenders gave me.

He's set up a camera and a tape recorder...

and left me here.

But he hasn't set me properly...

for me to see the tennis game.

lt's a ball. A ball who talks.

l'll play the ball. l'll play the fool.

this is an enquiry about the future of the cinema.

the context:

more and more movies Iook like TV series...

in terms of lighting. framing. and editing.

for large parts of the audience all over the world...

a television aesthetic has replaced a cinematic aesthetic.

Well...

you have to know who invented television...

and what the context was.

lts arrival coincided with the talkies...

at a time when governments were half-consciously thinking of...

harnessing the incredible power...

that was released by the silent film...

which. unlike painting. achieved instant popularity.

Popularity among the masses.

Rembrandt's paintings...

and Mozart's music were supported by kings and princes.

But it was a mass public that very quickly came to support....

the cinema.

the silent movie was something to behold.

first you look. then you speak.

the sound film might've been invented right away. but that didn't happen.

lnstead. it took thirty years. the age of reason...

Whoever has the power has right on his side. as l said in a movie.

first came the technical birth of television.

When the film people weren't interested in it...

it had to be rescued by the post office. people in communications.

so. today. television...

is like a little post office.

lt's nothing to be afraid of. it's so small...

and you have to be very close to the picture...

ln the cinema on the other hand. the picture...

is large and intimidating... and you watch it from some distance.

today. it seems people would rather Iook at a small picture close up...

than a large one from a distance.

television emerged very quickly because it was born in the USA.

lt was born at the very same time as the advertising that financed it.

so it was the highly articulate advertising world...

saying things in a single phrase or image...

like Eisenstein as good as Eisenstein...

as good as Potemkin.

so they made ads like Potemxin. only Potemxin is 90 minutes long.

An ad is less than a minute long. because otherwise...

you would have to tell the truth about...

the car. the tennis racket...

lt is linked to the truth and we admit the lack of it...

and all the chattering that goes with it.

More and more movies talk about other movies...

rather than about a reality outside the cinema.

lt's true. It's difficult to shoot outdoors. you have to take risks.

lt seems that life can't provide stories with no troubles.

As soon as there is trouble we say there is no story.

We just want a story we know already.

We are reassured not because it's the story of Alain Delon and his gun...

or Charles Bronson or something like that...

but because we know the end...

we are reassured about our own story.

l think a picture is like an X-ray you take. sick or not.

You get worried or reassured after seeing a bit of your own story.

And television is made in the name of power...

political and money power.

they don't want a story. there is no story in Dallas.

sometimes that is what l like about Dallas.

''fewer and fewer movies are made''. that's false. We're making more films.

Americans are very good. they make fewer movies.

they found out that you need to make fewer movies.

Hollywood's dream is to make one movie...

but the television makes it and to have it distributed everywhere.

Movie and TV series change titles...

but they are still the same.

text becomes more important to characterize the story.

so people can think it's different.

like kids...

Why do people have kids?

''there is a focus towards big productions.''

we do less but distribute more widely.

small movies tend to disappear.

Cinema was born with small movies.

small nations too. poor or rich. will disappear.

Everything small.

''film on VHS are available very quickly.''

Yes...

this new market is booming.

People prefer to watch movies at home on tape.

lt's just a pretext.

A porn movie at home on tape is a pretext to invite a girl...

and it's avoiding the minimal work...

of talking to her about love.

so l don't know...

''ls cinema dying out as a language. will it soon be a defunct art form?''

lt really doesn't matter. It's bound to happen some time.

l shall die. but will my art die?

l remember telling Henri Langlois that...

he should throw away his collection of films...

and go off somewhere. otherwise he would die.

so one should just go off somewhere. It's much the better way.

films are created when there's no one looking.

they are the invisible.

What you can't see is the Incredible...

and it's the task of the cinema to show you that.

to show what you can't see.

l'm sitting here in front of the camera...

but in reality. in my head. l'm behind it.

My world is the imaginary and...

that's a journey between forwards and backwards...

between to and from.

like Wim. l'm a great traveler. see you later.

Bye.

''ls cinema a language about to get lost. an art about to die?''

Answer: yes. l think.

lt's obvious that it's on the way out.

there's no reason to suspect otherwise.

the novel has been dead for a long while. People know that.

Poetry is exhausted a hundred years ago.

Plays hardly exist. Once in a while.

And every now and then. there's a movie. But that's about all.

the television is replacing it? Yes.

l. myself...

prefer watching most television to most movies.

l think the reason why movies are dropping dead...

is the same as with the novel.

the novel had life in it when...

it was based upon characters...

when the novel was a vehicle for an artist to create characters.

there was a novel. people read it.

When there was plays. like Shakespeare. anybody. Shaw...

there's only good plays. Molisre. if they wrote good characters.

the plots in their plays. their philosophy...

their meaning. their politics. are all negligible.

Most of them were ridiculous. stupid. they go out of fashion.

But good characters stay alive.

the movies don't use characters anymore.

they use some horrible thing called ''directors and photography''.

l prefer television because television uses people.

there're no directors on television. It has much more life than movies.

there're characters on television on the talk-shows...

there're characters on sitcom situation comedies.

there're characters on weekly series. adventure series.

the intrusion of director does not exist in television.

the material is second-rate...

but the material of the movies is second-rate.

But people does exist on television. It's better.

And...

maybe one day television will die out too. but...

l don't know.

l. myself...

think the movie critics. more than anything. have destroyed films.

ro ask a director like myself. from the Philippines...

what the future of the cinema is l find...

a very absurd question. because...

to ask what the future of cinema is in Philippines...

like asking what the future of Philippines is.

-Good bye. -Bye.

Nice to meet you.

l don't...

go to the movies very much anymore.

l have a video recorder...

and l record videos off the air.

But l don't watch them while they're being recorded.

and l very rarely look at them after l've recorded them.

l have a library with 200 movies that l...

l never see.

l think that...

it doesn't really matter much...

wether movies look like TV or TV looks like movies...

or wether the language in the cinema is changing.

l don't that pictures are dying. l think that...

there are good times and bad times for movies. And...

l think that the last few years...

have been a bad period. l think that...

haven't been a lot of movies that l cared to see...

and the ones that l have seen l've been disappointed in. so...

lf l go to see a movie that disturbs me because it's not very good...

that l'll look for an old movie that l've seen before that l like.

And l'll go to see it and l get some kind of nourishment from it.

''ls cinema dying out as a language. will it soon be a defunct art form?''

l don't think so. If you look at the development of television...

it is going to be this fabulous tool...

and its incredible ability to beam out films...

all over the world by satellite...

and everybody will be able to watch them simultaneously.

thanks to that amaZing device called video...

Well. then l do feel that cinema as we know it is on the way out.

Even while l was making my film ''Mourir à 30 Ans''...

l would sometimes have this feeling...

that it was all out of date.

Magnetic sound recording. all the lab processing...

the things you have to do to a film...

how cumbersome and time-consuming it all is...

when all you're doing is trying to tell a story.

for instance. when l was shooting ''Mourir à 30 Ans''...

telephone.

Hello?

No. nobody here. l am alone.

l don't know. because l am alone. l can't answer to you.

Very strange talking to yourself.

l don't know. l don't know.

l'd like to think that films are...

l don't know. Let me just talk personally.

the reason l make movies l think films are about passion' n.

People make a film the same way they might paint a painting...

because they are passionate about something. because they like life...

and they want to reflect that and they put it in a certain form.

When that passion goes out of movies...

that's when it starts to die like any...

like any other art form that just becomes...

lifeless.

lt's not the cinema that's dead.

lt's the filmmakers who make moronic films.

People die because they're not allowed to make the films they want to. But...

that's another story...

''there are fewer movies being made''. that's true.

films are getting polarized.

One strand of cinema sensation-oriented cinema...

which tends to be colossal and bombastic...

you can definitely see that.

On the other hand like l said...

there is very individual cinema...

or national cinema of individual filmmakers...

which is far more important today...

than cinema which is indistinguishable from television.

l think l'll start by taking my shoes off.

You can't answer a question like that with your shoes on.

l don't see the situation in such a dramatic way...

as the question seems to imply.

l feel that we aren't all that dependent on television.

film aesthetic is something apart and separate.

TV is just a kind of jukebox.

You're never inside the space of a theater or inside the film itself.

you have sort of a mobile position as a viewer.

And you can switch it off. You can't switch off a cinema.

l'm not all that worried.

l was talking to a friend one night recently in New York.

We went for a long walk and he told me how worried he was about...

everything being taken over by video and television.

soon. you'll choose vegetables in the supermarket by video camera...

or by pressing buttons on your telephone...

or your computer. you can order your meal.

lt won't be long before you can draw money out of the bank via video...

or this medium here.

''l'm not so worried about camera or film''. l said to him...

''because whatever happens there. that's not where life happens.

Life is going on somewhere else. Wherever life is dynamic...

wherever life touches us most directly...

that's where you'll find the cinema.

And that's what will survive.

Only that will always survive.''

And...

therefore l am most likely the last one who is worried...

the last one who is worried about a question like that.

l'm gonna turn it off now.

l started out writing. l wrote these novels...

and l felt like l was trapped inside this enormous tradition.

Movies for me were free there were no rules.

there was my turf. l could do anything l wanted to do...

just like everybody else was doing.

that's movies. you know?

Cinema's already... the books are on the shelf.

Personally. l'd like to stop making films every day.

lf l could put together...

small productions to make small films...

with the energy and passion that l know l have...

that would be my choice.

Here. instead. l perceive...

that the screenwriter disappears...

and the language and subject matter...

are not that interesting.

l don't know what else l can say...

but l would like...

to emphasize...

that electronic films do not interest me.

And l think they can't really interest any true artist.

l am grateful for this interview in every way.

Later l would even like to see it.

thank you.

the truth is...

the problem l have with the cinema. with the films l watch...

with the directors l like and who affect my work. is this:

how do you make a film without getting trapped...

in a vicious circle?

A film is made from creativity. struggle and pain.

But people who make films no longer take the time to live.

filmmaking overlaps with life to such an extent that...

you have to ask yourself. at what point...

am l putting my own life on the screen. or living out my own films?

the interweaving is so strong...

l don't know if today movie makers and movie-goers take their time to live.

l'm one of the last of optimists...

about the history and the future of the motion picture industry in Hollywood.

But l really believe that all my colleagues who...

love film...

and know nothing else...

lf there were...

lf the end of the world came. we couldn't dig a hole to climb into.

We wouldn't know how to do that either. We know movie making.

so l have to be very optimistic that movies are only going to...

expand...

Hopefully. not at the expense of other films that might contract...

for economic reasons.

Because we all know money is short today. It's 1982.

the dollar doesn't stretch as much as it used to.

ln 1974. when l made ''Jaws'' and l went a 100 days over schedule...

went from 55 to 155 shooting days...

the budget went to US$ 8 millions. which is twice as much.

today. because of the dollar. the franc. the Marc...

the Yen. whatever...

because we're experiencing runaway inflation within the film business...

''Jaws'' today would probably cost about US$ 27 millions...

if you shot a 155 shooting days. a full crew...

away from home. in local motels. have to feed them and take care of them.

so...

my fear is...

that a movie like my most current film. ''E.R.''...

, which cost US$ 10.3 millions which for me is...

really the least expensive movie l've made in the last couple of years...

, Even a film like ''E.r.'' 5 years from now...

will cost US$ 18 millions. that picture takes place in a house. children...

a backyard. a front yard. one shot in the forest.

Very limited locations.

l don't think we can go around blaming people for...

blaming unions for inflating budgets...

by the annual 150% increase in Hollywood across the board.

We can't just blame the government nor the shrinking dollar.

Because there's nobody to blame...

because of the state of the economic art...

l think the best do can do is just live with what we got...

make the best movies we know how.

lf we've to compromise to make a film that looks like a US$ 15 millions...

or perhaps US$ 3 or 4 millions. we just gonna have to do it.

We're the prisoners from our own time. and our generation...

is the only generation that's gonna be able to break through this kind of...

l don't know what you would call it. kind of like be a...

lt seems that Hollywood...

lt's not that l'm guilt of this. l've just been...

fortunate to have made some very successful films...

but seems like everybody in studio positions...

with the power to say yes. and the power to say no...

wants a homerun with everybody on base...

they want a grand slam. with the games tied 4 and 4.

Everybody wants to be a hero.

And they want to ride into Hollywood at the 11th hour...

and pull a piece of shit out of the...

closet and turn into some sort of a silk purse...

and you have a last-minute hit...

and everybody wants the hit to be a US$ 100 millions hit.

there seems to be an attitude among the people who run the studios...

not all of them. but a lot of people who run the studios...

seem to have an attitude that...

if a film can't at least reach 3rd base let alone home...

then we don't really know if they wanna make this picture.

And that's the danger:

the danger is not from the filmmakers. the producers. the writers...

is from the people who are in control of the money...

who essentially say: ''l want my money back...

l want those returns multiplied by the powers of 10''.

''l'm not interested in seeing a movie about your personal life...

your grandfather...

what was like to grow up in an American school...

or what was like to masturbate for the first time at 13. whatever.

l want a picture that is going to please everybody.

ln other words. l think Hollywood wants the ideal movie...

with something in it for everyone. and of course that's impossible.

What l think about this problem is...

l'd prefer to speak Italian. It's easier for me.

l believe this is a serious problem...

and you did the right thing. Wim...

to face it in a movie.

As you said. it is true that the existence of cinema is threatened.

We have to keep in mind other things.

there are different aspects to this problem...

that can't be denied.

for example...

the fact that television is influencing everybody...

the mentality and the eye of the viewer. is undeniable.

Especially the younger viewers. the kids.

But it is undeniable that we think that this subject is particularly...

serious...

possibly only. because we are a different age.

We have to adapt...

to what is the need of entertainment in the future.

We all know that there are 9 forms of...

representation of reality.

there are new forms of reproduction...

new technologies like the magnetic tape. which will probably...

come to replace traditional film stock...

which no longer meets...

today's requirements.

lt has problems. for instance...

Scorsese has pointed out that color...

film fades over time.

lt is an interesting problem. that concerns films more...

than magnetic tapes.

l believe that with the new technologies...

like the electronic system...

and maybe others. like lasers. who knows...

or others that are yet to be invented...

the audience is growing...

and this problem will be resolved.

l still don't know how...

and l am myself worried about the future of cinema.

We are still attached to film...

because film has given us many opportunities...

to show what we feel...

and what we thought we had to say.

But it is possible that with the acquisition of new...

technologies. like the magnetic tape. with what it will be able to offer...

possibly this feeling we have. will no longer exist.

ln reality. there is always a gap between today...

and tomorrow's mentality that we can't foresee.

We can't even predict how these houses will look like...

these ones we see outside the window.

One day they'll no longer be there...

We don't only have to think...

short term.

But we have to think of a future that will probably never end.

We have to think of the viewer's needs in the future.

l am not as pessimistic.

l have to say that l am quite...

Well...

l've always tried to adapt to the forms...

of expression that would fit the time.

so l made a movie in videotape...

many years ago. when research on colors was required.

l painted the reality.

lt was a rudimentary system...

but it anticipates my work on video.

l'd like to try further experiments in that direction...

because l'm sure that...

the different...

possibilities...

of video...

will teach us different ways of thinking about ourselves.

lt's difficult to talk about the future of cinema.

Probably. widely...

high-quality videocassettes will soon bring films into people's homes...

and with high definition magnetic tape...

we'll have cinema at home. We won't need to go to the movie theaters.

Current structures will disappear.

Not as quickly and easily as that suggests...

but it will happen.

the change is inevitable...

and we can't do anything to prevent it. We will only have...

one thing to do: we will need to adapt.

l examined the problem of adapting...

in ''Deserto Rosso''.

Adapting to new technologies...

to new levels of pollution in the air...

that we'll have to breathe in the future.

Our own organism will evolve.

Who knows what lies in store for us?

the future will present itself...

with unimaginable ruthlessness.

But we can guess what it would be.

l believe that...

Now l would need to restate what l've just said.

l'm neither a good speaker. nor a good abstract thinker.

l like to be practical and...

do the experiments instead of talking about them.

My feelings is that...

it won't be all that hard...

to transform us into new men...

better adapted to our new technologies.

this is all l have to say.

Yesterday l went to see another filmmaker...

who was unable to come to this room.

He is a Turk.

the Turkish government has demanded his extradition and for that reason...

he couldn't leave the security of his place of refuge.

He has answered the same question concerning the future of the cinema...

and recorded his reply.

l think l'm just going to play it.

Mr. Yilmaz Güney...

l think...

Cinema should be examined from two angles:

the industry cinema and the artistic cinema.

Between the industry cinema and the artistic cinema...

there is an unbreakable bond.

Because of this. for the film industry to reach the masses...

the film industry should especially consider the expectations...

the mood and the desires of the masses.

However. the desires of the masses are not frozen...

not unchanging and not monotonous.

for this reason. filmmaking. in order to reach the masses...

should consider changes in the masses...

if need be. the social changes or-political changes...

changes of consciousness...

constantly.

While artistic cinema talks about the masses...

industry cinema primarily considers money.

lf artistic cinema cannot satisfy...

the needs of the industry cinema...

in other words...

if it doesn't make money...

the bond is broken and there is change.

for example. when a lot of young filmmakers...

advancing young filmmakers...

come in contact with producers from advanced capitalist countries...

they lose their independence.

Whatever limits are drawn by large capital...

they are forced to work within these limits.

At this point. not becoming part of advancing cinema...

but becoming part of collapsed. dissolved...

and outdated filmmaking is wanted.

That's why it's a tragedy... an artist's tragedy.

Also this should be taken as advancing cinema's...

tragedy.

Basically. in my country...

dominant. advancing cinema is old-fashioned.

On the other hand. there is a blooming type of cinema...

that is being constantly suppressed...

banned. punished. silenced...

by some dominant forces.