Original subtitles

Uh, the victim's body was Spotted by a tug operator

About, uh, 7:30 that morning,

And I arrived on the scene

An hour later, 8:20.

An hour later, 8:20.

And what did you find?

Well, it appeared the body had Been in the water

For a couple of days, anyway,

For a couple of days, anyway,

And there were what appeared to Be

Numerous cuts and abrasions all Over her body.

Okay.

Okay.

Were you able to make an Identification of the victim,

Stacey miller, at the scene?

Yes, sir, we were. There was her Wallet.

Yes, sir, we were. There was her Wallet.

We found her wallet on her body,

And there was her photo, her Address,

So it was easy to make an I.D.

And what did you do with that Information?

I gave it to one of the Constables.

He immediately put her into the System

To see if he could find anything Else about her.

To see if he could find anything Else about her.

Then what did you do?

Well, since it wasn't very clear What had happened,

I decided I'd get homicide on Down there,

So they came down.

Is that normal procedure?

Oh, that's normal. Sure.

You know...

Whenever there's a possibility Of foul play,

I like to make sure

That everybody's way out in Front of it.

Okay. Then what did you do?

We had her body taken down to The morgue.

After homicide had processed the Scene there,

After homicide had processed the Scene there,

A full autopsy was performed on Her,

And we attempted to determine The cause of death.

And we attempted to determine The cause of death.

All right. Thank you, mr. Da Vinci.

That's all I have.

Counsel may question the Witness.

When you first saw the body of Stacey miller,

How old approximately did you Think she was?

I thought pretty young.

I thought maybe even a teenager.

But she was nearly 30 years old.

That's what her I.D. Said, yeah.

That's what her I.D. Said, yeah.

So she was a petite woman.

Petite, yeah.

Okay, these numerous cuts and Abrasions

Okay, these numerous cuts and Abrasions

On stacey miller's body,

What did these suggest to you?

I didn't know what they Suggested at the time.

Did you think she'd fallen in The river,

That the river had caused them?

No, because they appeared to be Puncture wounds.

No, because they appeared to be Puncture wounds.

I wasn't sure what had caused Them.

I'm not a pathologist.

You're not a pathologist?

Do you have medical training?

Do you have medical training?

No.

How do you become coroner with No medical training?

Is that, uh, is that not an Anomaly

In this day and age?

Not in this province it's not, No.

But most other provinces and States

But most other provinces and States

Have coroners and medical Examiners

With medical degrees.

Well, yeah. I'm an anomaly, an Anachronism,

But I'm not alone.

But I'm not alone.

There's about a 50-50 split in Terms of provinces

In this country.

If you have no medical training Whatsoever,

If you have no medical training Whatsoever,

What were you previously

That qualifies you to make such Difficult determinations

As to manner and cause of death?

As to manner and cause of death?

I rely on experience,

And, uh, when I'm not sure,

I rely on the advice of Professionals

Such as pathologists.

Okay.

Uh, that's all I have for this Witness.

I would like to recall him later Today.

No, could you ask your questions Now, please?

If you have things to ask me, Ask me now.

Just spare me the trip back down Here.

Does the crown have any Objections

To the counsel recalling this Witness

At a later time?

I have no objections, your Honor.

Mr. Da vinci is simply pointing Out

That he has a busy schedule.

Oh.

Oh, not my day.

Oh, not my day.

What's happening here?

I think straight-ahead robbery Here.

- you do? - I'm not exactly Sure,

- you do? - I'm not exactly Sure,

So I thought I'd wait for you.

Good call. Okay now, who lives Here?

- what's the victim's name? - Abigail jefferson.

- what's the victim's name? - Abigail jefferson.

Did abigail live alone?

No, with her husband.

Is that who found her?

Yeah, and the son and daughter.

Yeah, and the son and daughter.

They found her together.

Where are they now?

Well, that's the son over there.

The father and daughter are over At her place.

The father and daughter are over At her place.

He was pretty upset,

So I guess she took him over There.

Okay.

Who was here when you got here?

Who was here when you got here?

Just the son.

He called 911.

And that was when?

Around... About a half hour ago.

Okay.

Okay.

You'll see there's a gun on the Floor

By the bed here.

By the bed here.

Oh...

Oh...

So this is abigail, is it?

No signs of a struggle in here.

No signs of a struggle in here.

I'm thinking this looks like a Close-contact wound.

Yeah, you can see the--

Yeah, you can see the--

Yeah, that's what it looks like.

Doesn't seem like the kind to Have a gun.

Did the son say that the parents Had a gun?

Did the son say that the parents Had a gun?

He said yeah.

He knew his dad had an old army Service .45.

He was very sure this was it.

He was very sure this was it.

What's that over there?

Painkillers, prescription.

Excuse me.

Son said the mom was recovering

From a bout with skin cancer.

Oh yeah? Well, I think to be Cautious, then,

We'll do a gun residue test on Her hands,

We'll do a gun residue test on Her hands,

And then if her prints are on That weapon,

Then suicide, right?

Yeah, but take a look at this Over here in the other room.

What?

What?

The dresser's been turned upside Down.

So you're saying

This could be a robbery to you?

This could be a robbery to you?

That's the victim's gun in There, isn't it?

So what, uh, she's defending Herself,

The attacker takes the gun from Her

Or something like that?

Yeah. I suppose.

What about the son?

Did he say anything was missing?

Did he say anything was missing?

No. He says he didn't know

If his mom kept anything Valuable

In the dresser or not.

But there is the kitchen door You should look at.

But there is the kitchen door You should look at.

Okay.

Do you know about cameras?

Stacey miller had a lot of Wounds on her neck

That I thought were from a Knife.

And were these wounds later Confirmed

By the pathologist at autopsy

- to be stab wounds? - yes.

Okay. During the course of your Investigation,

Was there a time

When you searched stacey Miller's apartment?

Yep. We took a look around There.

Can you tell us what you found?

Can you tell us what you found?

Yes. We found numerous letters From the accused, joel hardy.

Yes. We found numerous letters From the accused, joel hardy.

Can you state the nature of These letters?

Yes. At first,

Yes. At first,

The accused was begging her to Get back together with him,

But then the letters got pretty Threatening.

But then the letters got pretty Threatening.

How were they threatening?

Well, quite a few times in There,

The accused said he'd kill her Before he'd let her go.

After reading these letters, did You question the accused?

Yeah, and he confirmed to us

That he was upset about stacey Leaving him,

Which was why he wrote the Letters.

And did the accused happen to Say where he was

And did the accused happen to Say where he was

The day that stacey miller went Missing?

He said he was at home,

But we couldn't corroborate That.

Oh yeah, someone's been at the Door here.

You can see the jimmy marks Right on there.

Yeah, and the chain was popped.

Yarded right out, isn't it?

What does the son say?

What does the son say?

He said it wasn't like that when They left the house,

And they always go out the Kitchen door here.

It's the closest to the Driveway.

Okay.

Okay.

I'm going to talk to him right Now,

And you get to call homicide.

And you get to call homicide.

We were told by the pathologist

That stacey miller's wounds were Consistent

With a small, single-edged Knife.

And did you then search mr. Hardy's house

For a possible weapon?

Yes.

Yes.

Did you find a weapon that Matched the wounds?

Nothing that matched the wounds.

During your first interview with Mr. Hardy here,

During your first interview with Mr. Hardy here,

Do you recall him telling you That he had a new girlfriend,

And that he was getting on with His life?

And that he was getting on with His life?

He said that. Yes.

Did his new girlfriend later Confirm that?

She said that. Yeah.

She said that. Yeah.

Did, uh, stacey miller currently Have a new boyfriend

By the name of jack perrault?

Yes.

Yes.

And did mr. Perrault tell you

That the last time he saw stacey Miller

Was the night before she Disappeared,

Was the night before she Disappeared,

That she'd spent the night with Him?

Yes, he said that.

Okay.

Does mr. Perrault have a Criminal record?

Does mr. Perrault have a Criminal record?

Yes.

He'd done six years for Importing cocaine.

Six years for importing cocaine?

Six years for importing cocaine?

Detective,

Were there ever any suspects Other than mr. Hardy

Considered in this case?

Considered in this case?

The evidence led us directly to Mr. Hardy.

You mean the letters he wrote to Stacey miller?

That was our first indication it Was him.

That was our first indication it Was him.

Then we found out stacey miller Had a restraining order

Against the accused.

Yes, and that restraining order Was withdrawn by her.

Yes, and that restraining order Was withdrawn by her.

- still you pursued mr. Hardy?

We believed he was the Perpetrator,

We believed he was the Perpetrator,

- and still do. - thank you.

Okay, when you came by here,

Did you go upstairs to see your Mom, or...

Did you go upstairs to see your Mom, or...

She was upstairs in bed, and I Looked in on her,

But she was sleeping.

Okay, and how long were you Gone?

Okay, and how long were you Gone?

Hour and a half.

We usually buy for the the week,

And dad had some other errands To run.

And dad had some other errands To run.

Okay, so you came back here Around 10:00,

And then what happened?

And then what happened?

Uh, we came in,

And, uh, we were unloading Groceries,

And then dad goes upstairs to Tell mom that we're home,

And I can hear him moaning real Loud,

So I go up there,

And that's when we found mom, Just shot like that.

And then you called 911.

Not right away, no.

Any particular reason why you Didn't call right away?

I didn't know what to do,

And, uh, dad looked like he was Having a heart attack.

And, uh, dad looked like he was Having a heart attack.

Couldn't breathe,

And, uh, so we just settled him Down a little,

And tried to calm ourselves Down,

And tried to calm ourselves Down,

And then we made the call.

Right from... Right from the House here?

No, from my sister's.

No, from my sister's.

You and your sister took him to Your sister's house,

And then you made the call?

We had to get him away from what Happened,

And he had a hold of mom's hand, And he wouldn't let go of it.

And he had a hold of mom's hand, And he wouldn't let go of it.

What about your mom?

This is kind of a hard question,

This is kind of a hard question,

But was there any discussions Like, uh...

What I'm trying to ask you is

What I'm trying to ask you is

Did you feel that she was Despondent?

Did she discuss kind of... Committing suicide with you?

Did she discuss kind of... Committing suicide with you?

No. Not to my knowledge.

Okay. All right.

Okay. All right.

Well, I'm finished,

As far as my questions are Concerned.

I just wanted to tell you

I just wanted to tell you

How very sorry I am for your Loss.

Thank you.

I'll get out of your way now.

I'll get out of your way now.

These fellows here will be gone Before you know it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I autopsied the body of stacey Miller

I autopsied the body of stacey Miller

On september 17th, 2000,

At the vancouver city morgue.

And what did you find?

And what did you find?

I found her to have sustained

Multiple stab wounds to her neck And shoulders.

Okay, can you tell us

Okay, can you tell us

How many wounds were there Altogether?

There were 12 stab wounds

On the back of her neck and Shoulders

And the front of her neck.

And the front of her neck.

And were those wounds the cause Of death?

No.

No, the immediate cause of death Was drowning.

So sometime after she'd been Stabbed,

She either fell

Or was placed into the river?

Objection.

Objection.

Crown is assuming facts not in Evidence.

Sustained.

Was there any evidence

That stacey miller had recently Had sex?

Yes.

There was inflammation and Tearing

To the vaginal tissue.

To the vaginal tissue.

And what would that suggest?

Suggests that the sex was Aggressive.

Violent?

Yes, yes, it could have been Violent.

Yes, yes, it could have been Violent.

In your expert opinion,

Was stacey miller sexually Assaulted?

In my opinion,

The tearing was consistent with Sexual assault, yes.

Want to give me a hand here, Dominic?

Okay.

All right.

There's the, uh, bullet

There's the, uh, bullet

Right in the mattress there.

- oh yeah. - a shot of that...

What's the weapon there?

What's the weapon there?

Oh, that's an old-timer, a .45.

Okay, I've got my photos of her.

We'll bag her hands, see if she Fired her herself.

We'll bag her hands, see if she Fired her herself.

Talked to the son downstairs. He Can't find anything missing.

I told him to call his dad,

I told him to call his dad,

See if he might know of anything Missing up here.

He says there should be some Jewelry

In a dresser drawer.

Well, he can come up here again, Have another look.

Well, he can come up here again, Have another look.

What about the daughter?

Is she bringing the father over Here?

Yeah. They're on their way over.

Did you see that back door, leo?

Yeah.

So, uh, you think maybe this is A robbery, then?

So, uh, you think maybe this is A robbery, then?

I don't know. I suppose so.

Guy's making a noise downstairs, The woman here hears him,

And she goes and gets the family Gun

And she goes and gets the family Gun

From wherever.

Well, maybe that thief already Knows

There's something valuable up Here.

Maybe he knows the family, knows The house, right,

So he comes upstairs.

Like you say, she's already got The weapon.

He comes in, he's surprised to See her with the gun,

Jumps on her and grabs it, turns It on her, maybe?

Jumps on her and grabs it, turns It on her, maybe?

It's possible

With a close-contact wound like That.

Or maybe it's all a coincidence.

A coincidence?

How do you figure a coincidence?

Well, two separate acts.

The woman's thinking suicide,

So she waits until her family's All gone shopping,

And she shoots herself.

A guy decides today's the day He's going to rob the place,

A guy decides today's the day He's going to rob the place,

And he sees the family go off on The routine shopping,

Comes in, sees she's already Dead,

Comes in, sees she's already Dead,

Helps himself,

Steals what he wants, and he's Gone.

Did the neighbors hear anything?

They're out canvassing.

They haven't found anything yet.

The family's all downstairs now.

We're going to want to interview Them

Separately.

I'll head downstairs with these Guys.

You testified

That there were numerous cuts And abrasions

That there were numerous cuts And abrasions

On stacey miller's body.

That's correct.

Any idea

Where the cuts and abrasions Came from?

I wouldn't want to speculate on That.

Okay.

Can you describe the deeper Wounds for us?

Can you describe the deeper Wounds for us?

Uh, yes.

Uh, they were ranging in width From one centimeter

Uh, they were ranging in width From one centimeter

To a few that were two and a Half centimeters,

And they were between 2.1 Centimeters deep

And they were between 2.1 Centimeters deep

And 3.1 centimeters deep on the Back of her neck.

What kind of weapon would have Made such wounds?

It would have to have been a Thin, narrow blade.

Are there any other objects or Implements

Besides a knife

That might have made these Wounds?

Yes. Yes, I'm sure that's Possible.

So these might not be knife Wounds.

So these might not be knife Wounds.

Well, they are consistent with a Knife blade,

But yes,

The, uh, stab wounds might not Have been inflicted

The, uh, stab wounds might not Have been inflicted

By a knife.

You've testified

That stacey miller had had sex

- sometime before she died. - Yes.

- sometime before she died. - Yes.

Was there any semen recovered?

No.

What would account for that?

She had been in the river, so It's possible

She had been in the river, so It's possible

Evidence of semen could have Been washed away,

Or, uh, the assailant wore a Condom.

So when this sex occurred is Difficult to determine.

Well, because of the time in the Water

And so on, yes,

And so on, yes,

But the vaginal tearing hadn't Healed at all,

So it probably occurred

Within 24 hours of her death.

Within 24 hours of her death.

Probably, but there's no way to Determine that.

No precise method. Correct.

Okay, now, isn't it true

Okay, now, isn't it true

That the kind of vaginal tearing That you described

Could have been caused

By rough, aggressive, consensual Sex?

I'm not an expert in rough Consensual sex.

I'm an expert in sexual assault,

And the vaginal tearing was, in My expert opinion,

And the vaginal tearing was, in My expert opinion,

Consistent with assault.

Right. You're not an expert in Rough consensual sex.

Thank you.

From the time you got home until The time you called 911,

From the time you got home until The time you called 911,

That was about 40, 45 minutes.

Is that right?

I didn't realize it was that Long.

Oh yeah. It was that long.

We were dealing with my father.

We were all in shock.

So you drove your dad over to Your sister's house,

And then you came back here?

Yeah, to wait for the police.

What do you think happened here?

What do you think happened here?

Well, when I came

And saw the back door broken Open like it is,

I thought it was a robbery.

I thought it was a robbery.

Do you own a gun, mr. Jefferson?

Yes.

And the gun we found on the Floor there,

And the gun we found on the Floor there,

Would that be your gun?

Yes.

Yeah, I kept that

After I got out of the army.

Okay, uh, where do you keep that Gun?

In the dresser.

The one in the room there, or The one in that smaller room?

In the smaller room. Yes.

Was there anything else in There?

My wife's jewelry.

And that's missing?

And that's missing?

Yes. Yes.

Um, my son says... Well, it's Not there now.

Um, my son says... Well, it's Not there now.

Was it insured?

Yes.

What do you figure it's worth?

What do you figure it's worth?

I think about $20,000.

20? Okay.

Do you know if your mom and dad

Had anybody working for them Recently,

Like a handyman making some Repairs,

Like a handyman making some Repairs,

Somebody cleaning in the house Or out in the yard,

Anything like that?

My sister cleans for mom and dad On saturdays,

My sister cleans for mom and dad On saturdays,

But as far as a handyman, dad Would know.

There's a neighborhood kid who Cuts the lawns.

Yes, he cuts the lawns and he Washes the windows,

That kind of thing.

Well, he's been inside the house

Several times.

Okay, we'll need his name.

Okay, we'll need his name.

Okay. I've got that.

He lives right across the street There.

He lives right across the street There.

He's in high school.

Okay, when you came home,

Okay, when you came home,

Did you go in the front door, or Did you go in this door here?

Front door.

You were unloading groceries?

Yes.

Yes.

The car and the groceries are a Lot closer to that door,

And the officer tells me that's The door you usually use,

And the officer tells me that's The door you usually use,

So why'd you go in that door?

I don't know.

I don't know.

Now, I understand

Now, I understand

You usually come in through the Back.

This time you came in the front Door?

Why was that?

I...I don't know. I...

I can't remember why we came in That door.

I can't remember why we came in That door.

Dad wanted to check the mailbox By the front door,

So that's the way we went in.

So that's the way we went in.

Did he get any mail?

Just bills, I think.

Now, what about your wife this Morning?

Was she in good spirits?

She said she had a good night. Yeah.

She said she was feeling better.

Was she in, uh...

Was she experiencing pain, bad Pain from time to time?

Was she experiencing pain, bad Pain from time to time?

There's some pretty serious pain Medication up there.

Yeah, yeah, well...

Yeah, yeah, well...

It's up and down, you know?

For sure.

And the cancer was in remission?

And the cancer was in remission?

Yeah. She'd had immunotherapy Treatments.

And that was working, was it?

And that was working, was it?

Mm-hmm.

You do understand, sir,

That, uh, at this particular Time

That, uh, at this particular Time

We do have to consider other Possibilities.

Yes.

Now your wife, she was pretty Sick, right?

Now your wife, she was pretty Sick, right?

Yes.

I'm wondering, just, um...

I'm wondering, just, um...

I'd be curious to know if you Think that maybe...

Is it possible that your wife Killed herself?

Is it possible that your wife Killed herself?

No.

No.

Abigail...

She'd never take her own life.

She'd never take her own life.

She was catholic.

Commit suicide, you...You go to Hell.

Commit suicide, you...You go to Hell.

You've got that 40-minute time Delay

Before they called 911.

That's a little odd.

That's a long time to be waiting

To make that call.

To make that call.

Yeah, we should check that kid Across the street.

He knew their habits.

He's got a really good view from There, too.

[ pager beeps ]

I've got to get out of here.

Yeah...

Let me know if you hear Anything.

See you, dominic.

I'd like to take you back to the Morning

That stacey miller's body was Found in the fraser river.

You may want your notes for This.

I don't need my notes.

Okay.

You testified

That you noticed numerous wounds On the victim's body.

Correct.

But you didn't know where they Were from.

I didn't know, and I think I Answered that already.

You testified

That stacey was last seen hiking About 20 miles up the river.

That was in her missing persons Report, too.

That was in her missing persons Report, too.

That's rough country up there, Isn't it?

It's wilderness?

Pretty rough country up there, Yeah, in spots.

Pretty rough country up there, Yeah, in spots.

So you're there at the scene With homicide,

And you're all standing around Looking at the victim's body,

And you're all standing around Looking at the victim's body,

And you've just found out

She was last seen hiking

In some pretty rough terrain,

So that must have started a Little speculation

About what might have happened To stacey.

We discussed some possibilities.

We discussed some possibilities.

Maybe you should look at your Notes.

No, thank you.

Was it you or one of the Detectives

Was it you or one of the Detectives

Who first mentioned

That maybe stacey had been the Victim

Of an animal attack?

Of an animal attack?

I'm not sure.

That was mentioned.

It's in your notes here, a Possible cougar attack.

Oh, it's in there, then?

Oh, it's in there, then?

Okay, so what's your point?

Why a cougar?

Because one of the constables on The scene

Said that a cougar had been Spotted in that area

Up the river there,

And, that apparently a young boy Had been attacked,

And there was some cougar scat Seen in the immediate area,

So that led to some talk,

And then we all decided,

And then we all decided,

"That's not what we're looking At here."

You must have thought something About it.

You wrote it down.

I write everything down.

I find that's the best policy, You know?

It's like, gather all your Evidence

And you look at it,

And it doesn't mean you can't Accept another viewpoint

And it doesn't mean you can't Accept another viewpoint

Once all the evidence is in.

That's how an investigation Progresses.

But you didn't think it was a Cougar attack?

That's what I just said. You Should check your notes.

And you were sure after the Autopsy?

The autopsy showed

That the victim had been Stabbed.

And there was no disagreement

With the pathologist on her Findings?

With the pathologist on her Findings?

Is that a question, or is that a Statement?

You and the homicide detectives Are at the autopsy

With the pathologist,

With the pathologist,

And no one mentions the Possibility

Of a cougar attack.

Is that your testimony?

Someone might have suggested

Someone might have suggested

That there was the possibility That it was an animal attack,

And I said to the pathologist,

"Are you sure it wasn't an Animal?"

She said, "I'm pretty sure,"

She said, "I'm pretty sure,"

So we went with that.

That's just one of the qualified Professionals

That I rely upon every day.

That I rely upon every day.

So you might have suggested to Her

That somebody thought it was a Mountain lion,

Or you did suggest it?

I did.

After that suggestion had been Made,

There was no ongoing Disagreement, then?

It was a stabbing.

Everybody was on the same page On that one.

Thank you.

Patricia...

I think you've got a problem

On the stacey miller case.

We can't officially discuss This.

Well, what sort of problem, Unofficially?

The defense lawyer is asking me Questions

About whether there's any Possible disagreement

Between you, me, and homicide

As to the nature of her wounds, Right?

And what's that about?

And what's that about?

Well, he's got my notes. He's Got homicide's notes.

I definitely put it in there, a Possible cougar attack,

But I don't know what other People's notes say,

So I thought I'd better give you The heads-up.

Yeah, okay. I'd better talk to The crown,

Yeah, okay. I'd better talk to The crown,

See if he knows what hardy's Lawyer's up to.

See if there's anything in your Notes.

That's vital.

You got something for me?

You got something for me?

Your gunshot victim from Yesterday?

I went in there, took a look Around.

The cancer had metastasized

To her lymph, kidney, liver, you Name it.

It was eating away at her.

Are you saying she was not in Remission then?

No. She was dying.

Okay, what about the gunshot Wound?

Clean, direct shot through the Left ventricle.

Death was instantaneous, Consistent with suicide.

Women shoot to the heart. That's What the stats say.

Women shoot to the heart. That's What the stats say.

We did talk about it being a Possible cougar attack.

I've got it in my notes right Here.

- it's in the notes? - okay. Thanks.

- it's in the notes? - okay. Thanks.

- hi. - hi.

- hi. - hi.

I'm sorry to bother you.

It's all right. I was just Tidying up.

Is your brother home?

No.

I was wondering if I might have The chance

To sit down and talk with you.

Sure. Come on in.

Thanks. How's your father Holding up?

Thanks. How's your father Holding up?

Well, my mom and dad were Married 50 years,

So you can imagine.

So you can imagine.

Yeah, I can.

It's a long time.

Yeah.

All right, your mother's cancer.

We've had her autopsy results Back in,

And it turns out

That your mother's cancer was Not in remission.

Yes, it was.

Yeah, she said it was.

Yeah, she said it was.

Well, if she told you that,

Then she wasn't telling you the Truth.

Really?

Really?

So my question for you is, like, Are you sure

That she never discussed suicide With you?

No. No, not with me.

Okay, how about anybody else?

Okay, how about anybody else?

No.

Did you know

Your parents kept a gun in the House?

Yeah. It was in the dresser.

This gun had been there for a Long time, or...

Since we were kids. Yeah.

Since we were kids. Yeah.

So your mom knew where that gun Was, then?

Yeah. She warned us all the Time.

Did she? Was it always kept Loaded?

Did she? Was it always kept Loaded?

Yeah.

The reason for that was what?

Was she nervous about all the Break-ins lately?

My dad was.

There'd been a few more than Usual

The last year or two.

The last year or two.

All the home invasions you read About...

I guess I should have paid more Attention to that.

I guess I should have paid more Attention to that.

You know, the three of you went Shopping together,

You know, the three of you went Shopping together,

And you left her here by herself In the house,

So if you were worried about That...

I know. I know.

I know. I know.

Had there been some discussion

That someone should stay behind With her?

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I think we did, uh-huh,

But, you know, we also talked

About dad not being chained to The house.

About dad not being chained to The house.

Why?

Because he rarely left her Alone?

Right.

Right.

Right.

They're bringing in a Pathologist by the name of john Rose

To counter your testimony.

I was afraid that might happen.

He is...

- he's a very good witness. - Yeah?

So what do you know about him?

Well, he's an expert in animal Attacks,

So they're definitely going After the cougar theory.

That's his pet thing.

Is it possible it was a cougar Attack?

Is it possible it was a cougar Attack?

Not unless the cougar was Packing a knife.

Hey, how are you doing?

Hey, how are you doing?

Did you get the gsr results back On abigail jefferson?

Yeah. Chick says

Yeah. Chick says

That she did not fire the gun That killed her.

Oh, no? What about the prints?

Oh, wiped clean, so I guess the Thief

Must have been wearing gloves.

Chick's still working on the Ballistics now.

You're kidding.

Hey, uh, dom?

Can I ask your advice about Something?

Yeah, sure.

These here long-term care Facilities,

These here long-term care Facilities,

Are any of them any good?

I guess a couple of them are Okay.

Yeah, I thought so, too,

But I looked at about six of Them,

And none of them seemed very Nice to me.

They just let the people wander Around in there,

And they're trying to tell me

That, oh, that's a good thing to Do?

They all looked stoned.

I saw cockroaches.

I saw cockroaches.

Know what?

Here's the name and the address

Of the one I put pops in before He died.

It was actually okay.

Oh yeah? Okay.

Hey, thanks, dominic.

Hey, no problem.

So far, only the jewelry's Missing, right?

So far, only the jewelry's Missing, right?

Yeah, that's what it looks like.

I've got a list of items from The insurance company.

I've got a list of items from The insurance company.

So what about this teenager

Who does odd jobs for the house?

He definitely looks like a Possibility.

He definitely looks like a Possibility.

He showed up two hours late for School,

Had to stop off at the mall.

So he's got no alibi, right?

Yeah, but the only thing wrong With that

Is he knew mrs. Jefferson had Cancer.

He's going to rob the place,

He's got to know she's going to Be at home.

He's got to know she's going to Be at home.

That's a pretty big risk for him To be taking.

Yep.

Worth a lot of money.

Maybe he figured it was worth The risk.

Maybe he figured it was worth The risk.

We've got a bulletin out

To all the pawn shops, melt-down Joints,

See if anybody tries to fence It.

Okay, what are you thinking About this?

Okay, what are you thinking About this?

The woman's terminally ill, and She's lying about it.

That should lead to suicide, but It doesn't,

That should lead to suicide, but It doesn't,

So I don't know what the hell to Think.

Well, uh, work the kid

And keep talking to the family, Then.

And keep talking to the family, Then.

Hi. Excuse me.

Hey, chick.

I've got something here for you On the .45.

What's that?

What's that?

It jammed up.

What do you mean, it jammed up?

Well, the first shot killed mrs. Jefferson,

But, uh, there were two shots Attempted,

But, uh, there were two shots Attempted,

And the second round failed to Fire.

We've got a strike

On the base of the round here.

On the base of the round here.

Matches the firing pin.

It didn't fire.

So what do you figure?

Old ammo.

Old ammo.

Mr. Da vinci,

You spoke with a wildlife Officer

You spoke with a wildlife Officer

That day you found stacey Miller. Is that correct?

Yes, I did.

And what did he tell you about a Mountain lion

And what did he tell you about a Mountain lion

In the area where stacey went Missing?

Do you recall?

There was a boy on a mountain Bike

Attacked by a cougar that Morning.

Attacked by a cougar that Morning.

Was the boy hurt in the attack?

No. He scared the cougar off, Apparently.

Did they find that cougar, do You know?

Did they find that cougar, do You know?

No, they gave up.

Apparently, they found the Tracks,

And they found some scat,

But, in the end, they gave up.

And did you find evidence

That the cougar had been in that Area where stacey went missing?

Well, we found her backpack.

Well, we found her backpack.

Uh, it had her name inside it.

And did the wildlife officer Point out evidence

That the cougar had been in the Area?

He pointed out some scat and he Pointed out some tracks,

Yeah, but it was along the Riverbank there

Yeah, but it was along the Riverbank there

Where we found the backpack.

Down along the river from where The bag was found?

I just said that.

I just said that.

What did you tell the wildlife Officer

About his opinion that stacey Had been attacked

By this same young cougar?

By this same young cougar?

I really can't recall.

Okay, well, the wildlife officer Testified this morning

That you said he was "Full of It,"

That you said he was "Full of It,"

And "To go practice his knots

For a merit badge."

I might have said something like That, I guess.

Uh-huh. Okay.

Well, mr. Da vinci... It is mr., Not dr., correct?

You've got a short memory. You Know, there's no jury here.

Why don't you just ask your Question?

Mr. Da vinci,

When the observation was made

When the observation was made

That this might have been a Cougar attack,

You did your best to dissuade Anyone

From considering that Possibility.

No, that is not true.

No, that is not true.

Did that intimidation extend to The autopsy?

You were present at the autopsy.

I didn't intimidate anybody at Any autopsy.

Did your own pathologist at any Time say to you,

Did your own pathologist at any Time say to you,

"These could be cougar wounds"?

No, I don't believe so.

I think you're lying to us, mr. Da vinci.

I think you're lying to us, mr. Da vinci.

I think I know what you're Doing.

You're trying to just confuse The issue

With this preposterous idea

That it was a cougar that Stalked stacey miller,

A cougar raped her, a cougar Killed her?

I don't think--

I don't think--

Mr. Da vinci?

That's all.

Thank you, mr. Da vinci.

Next thing,

He'll be telling this court that His client's a werewolf,

It was a full moon that night,

And get a werewolf expert up Here

To give us all lectures on Lycanthropy.

Mr. Da vinci?

You're excused.

You're excused.

Sorry, your honor.

What's the song?

What's the song?

It's cuban.

Okay, is it, uh... Is that like A samba?

Okay, is it, uh... Is that like A samba?

Okay, so is it like one, two, Three,

Or one-two-three?

Or one-two-three?

Okay, uh...

I'll just pick that up at the Record store.

Yeah. Thanks.

Yeah. Thanks.

What?

I've just got something bugging Me.

I've just got something bugging Me.

You've got mrs. Jefferson lying There in bed,

Dying of cancer, right,

And then, all of a sudden,

Everybody decides to get up and Go shopping

At the grocery store?

I don't know.

I don't know.

Yeah, well, I can understand That.

Why don't you explain it to me?

Why don't you explain it to me?

Well, you need a break.

You're taking care of somebody That's sick

Day and night.

Day and night.

You've got to get out, you know What I mean?

You'll go crazy. You'll kill Them.

You'll kill them?

Well, you don't kill them.

You lose your temper,

Then you say something to them That hurts their feelings.

I just can't help thinking

I just can't help thinking

That if somebody had stayed home With her that day,

She wouldn't be dead.

Yeah, or maybe there'd be two People dead now.

Yeah, or maybe there'd be two People dead now.

You think this was staged?

Well, usually you can tell.

It's over staged. There's too Much detail.

It's over staged. There's too Much detail.

Well, I do.

I think it was staged.

Um, dr. Ramen, do you recall

Um, dr. Ramen, do you recall

That day stacey miller's body Was brought in to be autopsied?

Yes.

Yes.

Who else was present that day?

Dr. Da vinci,

Two homicide detectives, a Forensic expert,

And the coroner, mr. Da vinci.

And the coroner, mr. Da vinci.

And when the body was first Examined,

A disagreement that took place

Between those present

Between those present

About whether or not the wounds On stacey miller

Were possibly from a cougar Attack?

There was a discussion about That.

Uh, discussion or disagreement?

Disagreement.

What was the nature of that Disagreement?

It had been suggested

It had been suggested

That it had been a cougar seen In the area

Where stacey miller had last Been seen,

So the question was raised

So the question was raised

As to whether the wounds on her Body

Were consistent with a cougar.

Do you recall who brought that Up?

Mr. Da vinci had heard about it, So he brought it up.

And was he thinking that this Was the case,

That it was a cougar attack?

No, he thought it was a lot of Nonsense.

No, he thought it was a lot of Nonsense.

And how did dr. Da vinci feel About this suggestion?

She wasn't as quick to dismiss It

As he was.

As he was.

She wasn't quick to dismiss it?

Dr. Da vinci likes to keep an Open mind,

But that's not to say she Believes

But that's not to say she Believes

She was seeing cougar wounds.

Can you recall what she said, Exactly?

Something like,

"Don't bring your prejudices Into my autopsy."

And did that stop mr. Da vinci

From continuing to prejudice the Matter?

I don't believe he did prejudice The matter.

I don't believe he did prejudice The matter.

Were you ever asked by dr. Da Vinci

To examine the wounds on stacey Miller?

To examine the wounds on stacey Miller?

- yes. - why was that?

She wanted a second opinion

On the type of knife used in the Attack.

So what did you think caused the Wounds?

So what did you think caused the Wounds?

I wasn't sure they were caused By a knife.

I thought a different instrument Might have been used

In the attack.

Thank you, doctor.

Thank you, doctor.

That's all.

Dr. Rose,

In your 17 years as a Pathologist,

How many cases of cougar attacks Have you investigated?

14.

14.

14? That's impressive,

And where would those have been?

Well, a number of them were over On vancouver island,

Well, a number of them were over On vancouver island,

A couple were up in the rockies Here,

And the rest were in california And oregon.

And the rest were in california And oregon.

How many of those attacks were Fatal?

Five.

Five.

And of those five,

Have cougar wounds and knife Wounds

Sometimes been confused?

In two of those cases, yes.

In two of those cases, yes.

Why is that?

Why the confusion between cougar Wounds and knife wounds?

Well, if you look at the Pictures on the board,

Well, if you look at the Pictures on the board,

You can see how they look Similar.

Uh, the problem is

That most pathologists don't Ever have the opportunity

That most pathologists don't Ever have the opportunity

To see any cougar wounds,

So they don't know what they're Looking at.

I see they do look similar.

A cougar often attacks from Behind,

With both sets of claws.

With both sets of claws.

That would account for the Superficial wounds

To the sides of the shoulders.

Now, the puncture wounds in the Back of the neck

Now, the puncture wounds in the Back of the neck

- come from the teeth. - what Else?

Uh, well, the claw wounds have a Particular depth.

Uh, well, the claw wounds have a Particular depth.

Okay, you've had a chance

To go over the autopsy Photographs

Of stacey miller. Is that Correct?

Yes, I had the opportunity to go Over them at length.

And in your experience,

Having seen numerous wounds from Numerous cougar attacks,

Having seen numerous wounds from Numerous cougar attacks,

Do they fit

The particular criteria that You've established

For cougar attacks?

Yes, absolutely. They do.

Yes, absolutely. They do.

You can see that there's a Pattern

To the placement of the wounds On her neck and shoulders,

To the placement of the wounds On her neck and shoulders,

And these wounds correspond Directly

To the lengths and depths of Cougar claws and bites

That I've studied.

That I've studied.

Okay, and what about evidence of Cougar dna

In the wound?

Well, naturally, we'd expect to See that,

Well, naturally, we'd expect to See that,

But in this case,

With the body being in the Water,

Evidence might have been washed Away.

Evidence might have been washed Away.

Just as evidence of the alleged Sexual assault,

The semen, might have been Washed away?

That's correct.

Doctor, who is the victim of a Typical cougar attack?

It's usually someone 16 years of Age or under,

It's usually someone 16 years of Age or under,

Uh, well, the smaller the prey, The easier the kill.

Uh, well, the smaller the prey, The easier the kill.

Stacey miller was a petite Woman.

Would she fall into that Category?

Yes. Absolutely.

Thank you, doctor.

Thank you, doctor.

Now, your sister tells us that You knew where the gun was,

And have known since you were Children.

That's not what you told us Earlier.

You said you had no idea.

I guess I knew.

I just didn't recall when you Asked me.

We had our forensic expert check The gun.

He tells us a second shot was Attempted,

But it didn't fire.

You've got some old ammunition There, I guess.

Okay.

Okay.

Did your mother ask you at any Time

To help her commit suicide?

No.

Did your father ever ask you

Did your father ever ask you

To help him end your mother's Life?

No.

Did you rearrange anything in Your mother's room

After you found her dead?

After you found her dead?

- no. - well, somebody did.

It was either you, your sister, Or your father.

I think you're mistaken.

If we go to your place with a Search warrant,

Are we going to find your Mother's jewelry?

Are we going to find your Mother's jewelry?

No.

We're going to have to ask your Father

All these same questions now,

Everything that we've asked you.

Everything that we've asked you.

You know that, don't you?

Go right ahead.

Okay.

Okay.

Do you know how many cougar Attacks

Have been recorded in british Columbia

Have been recorded in british Columbia

In the past 10 years?

Oh, not that many.

Only six have been recorded in The last 10 years.

Were any of those attacks fatal?

Yes, two of them.

What do we usually find

Is the nature of most cougar Attacks?

Is the nature of most cougar Attacks?

Well, we know

That cougars attack mostly from Behind,

Uh, that they use not only their Claws,

But their teeth,

So you usually see a variety of Wounds--

Uh, bite marks, scratches,

Uh, bite marks, scratches,

Claw marks, lacerations, lateral Tearing,

Also crushing of the bone and Soft tissue

Also crushing of the bone and Soft tissue

From the bite.

None of which you recognized in The body of stacey miller?

Uh, correct.

Uh, correct.

Cougars also sometimes drag Their victims,

And there was no evidence of That.

What do we usually find is the Fatal wound

What do we usually find is the Fatal wound

In most cougar attacks?

Usually, it's from the jaw Crushing the vertebral column

Or the skull of the victim.

Again, something you did not Find

In the body of stacey miller.

Is that correct?

Correct.

Correct.

Well, thank you very much for Calling.

Well...

I just...I just wanted to set it All straight.

I just...I just wanted to set it All straight.

Okay. I appreciate that. Thank You.

We talked about what to do for Six months or so,

We talked about what to do for Six months or so,

And then...

And then...

Abby and I decided this was the Quickest...

Abby and I decided this was the Quickest...

Best way to do it.

Okay...

And how was that going to work?

Well...

Well...

We set the day...

And we had this little ceremony

And we had this little ceremony

Where we renewed our marriage Vows...

Where we renewed our marriage Vows...

And we...

Well, you know how they go.

Yeah, I do. Yeah.

Well, we did that,

Well, we did that,

And I...I got out the gun,

And then I did...I...

And then I did...I...

Yeah, I got out the gun and...

Yeah, I got out the gun and...

I shot her.

I shot her.

I...I...

I tried to turn it on myself, And...

I tried to turn it on myself, And...

It jammed.

It jammed.

All right.

All right.

All right.

Okay, so what happened then?

You picked up the phone and you Called your children?

You picked up the phone and you Called your children?

Is that what you did?

Yes.

So they came on over here,

They cleaned things up,

And then what, they came up with The robbery idea?

And then what, they came up with The robbery idea?

Is that it?

That's right.

That's right.

That was a very hard thing to Do.

That was a very hard thing to Do.

That was a very hard thing to Do.

Yes.

Yes, it was.

Yes, it was.

Yes, sir, it was.

A very hard thing.

A very hard thing.

Did the judge render a verdict?

Yeah, he did. Um...We lost.

Yeah, he did. Um...We lost.

[ knocking ]

Keys...What?

Um, judge says there was Reasonable doubt.

Um, judge says there was Reasonable doubt.

Oh, great.

Well, morris steadman is here to See you.

Well, morris steadman is here to See you.

Oh yeah?

Okay, send him in.

And your dinner date is waiting.

And your dinner date is waiting.

Great.

Hi. I'll be one minute, okay? You look nice.

Okay, morris can come in now.

Okay, morris can come in now.

- how are you doing, mr. Da Vinci?.

- how are you doing, mr. Da Vinci?.

Well, not bad. How are you Doing?

- fine, thank you. The autopsy Files.

- fine, thank you. The autopsy Files.

Oh, thanks. Did you go see that Grief counselor

Like you promised?

Yeah. Thanks for that.

I was also looking over the Pictures of the fire

And comparing those to the Autopsy findings.

And comparing those to the Autopsy findings.

It seems to me that the cuts on Janie's wrists

Are inconsistent

With her breaking the window in The bedroom.

They look more like defensive Wounds,

As if she was fighting off an Attacker.

As if she was fighting off an Attacker.

Have you been talking to Somebody

About defensive wounds?

I did find a pathologist in Seattle

Who responded to my e-mails,

And he has some questions, too.

Oh.

Oh.

So I thought I'd tell you,

Just in case he called.

In case he calls me?

Would it make you happy

If you could talk to the actual Pathologist

Who did the autopsy in janie's Case?

Yes, it would.

Yes, it would.

I don't think that'll be a Problem.

I think she'll be over in her Office.

I'll take you over there right Now.

Have you got time?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So just give me one second.

Hi.

Hi.

In a few minutes. - I'm- okay.To Go

Do you want to wait in my Office?

It'll be better for you.

It'll be better for you.

How's everything else?

Well, I've been working a lot More.

My brother came out to spend Some time.

Oh, there you go.

I want to thank you for taking The time.

Well, it's hard losing someone.

Yes.