Original subtitles

you're watching cherry-red TV I'm Mark

Powell the label manager of esoteric

recordings and in August we will be

releasing a compilation album by Rupert

Hine as think man fighting apathy with

shock and it get there's gathers

together some of the choice tracks

recorded from these albums and I'm

pleased to say that with me today is

mine himself a route behind Reaper thank

you very much for coming in to cheer

it's a you've got a very long

distinguished career as a musician a

producer and much more I think Monica

yeah and it's discussing your career

such as yours you know is it's it's

quite amazing the amount of diverse

things that you've actually done can I

take you that back see or what was your

very first experience as a recording

artist oh gosh well that is a long time

ago I was 16 and I was my songwriting

partner David McLaren and I walked into

a couple of music business buildings in

Soho just on the whim we wanted to play

some songs and of course then we meant

since we were in the building and this

and that person said yes we just got out

our guitars and played them the songs

was their recordings and on the second

place which was B Feldman and Kaye the

publishers they said great will sign you

so that was my introduction and then we

did a lot of cover songs at the same

time we're talking in mid 60's and

amongst those covers were some by Paul

Simon and that was when they said well

for a thirst thing we'd like you to do

your version of sound of silence up till

then that's some had only been released

on a folk sort of album called shock

Paul Simon songbook yes no was the

version that we know very well from

Simon Garfunkel was yet to appear but

the second they knew that the labels

they rush released a version Lee did

have just with the guitar but because

the two voices it was very interesting

so we ended up being this a British

version of that song for a while before

finally it also became globally enormous

you know but in popularity so that that

how long did that geo lasts in terms of

her well as a duo I mean we did quite a

bit of gigging but the kicking wasn't of

any significance really and I suppose I

mean as as a duo only maybe three or

four years but then David I continued

writing songs together but David

handling the lyrics and so we we carried

on as a partnership for another four

years before he live but he moved to

America there girlie and then we wasn't

so easy to write solo fibers today

transcontinental II and of course in the

early 70s you began an association with

purple records Deep Purple's late yeah

that's one Dave and I were still

together and we because of that first

bout after the sound of silence and the

the immediate time after that it was all

a bit weakened fluffy and we kind of

gave up going in that direction and

decided to try and write for a

forward-looking

change in how things were going to work

musically and after it maybe two or

three years of doing that I befriended

again someone that I'd met in those B

Feldman days Roger Glover I messed up

again through just literally seemed

recognizing with him on the back of a

deep purple sleeve I said I've got that

looks all feel like my old mate Roger

Glover only with lots of hair because he

had crew cut then Ian Gillan he was also

in the same earlier band called Episode

six also wore these sort of train pipe

trousers mohair trouser the crew cuts

doing sort of four seasons of Jalen dean

numbers and yeah there were five years

later hair down to here

during the heavy rock what became known

as heavy rock but anyway I phoned up the

record label and asked if they could get

a message through to Roger there me nice

to spend a bit a moment together and

they did and we did and like I said I've

been sort of producing the band because

I'm the only one that's interested in

doing all the legwork in the pragmatic

stuff because I'd love to produce

something outside of the band so he did

he produced my first album as such

because the earliest thought was any

singles and David was still on the album

in a server and John Bernie talking kind

of way with her seeing those two

separate components but I was the

performer and although it didn't do a

huge business it did have a lot of

critical success and they asked for a

second album which then deep Hubbell

were the biggest band on the planet they

Roger couldn't spare five minutes there

when I asked when are we gonna do the

next album then he said well I can't do

it so you you just do it I said what No

and I mean who's going to produce it I

know you produce it and I said I don't

have a clue you just do what you do at

home with those great demos where you're

using multitrack guitars most reckless

that another which of course weren't

multitrack today they were sound on

sound bouncing from machine to machine

and they said you know that's electronic

key thing that you do and tin cans bits

of string just do all that only a tear

studio is bigger

that was my complete instruction it was

actually a record producer and I suppose

I think well you could call him a genius

I don't know I thought it was it was odd

to me for anyone else to understand but

then suddenly artists started me on

asking him if I'd work with them has a

producer and I couldn't hog you that I

wasn't one because they would point it

my second album says so on the cover

because you did some some interesting

things with purple records were you

involved in that Colditz

albums only with a company called

esoteric could I be asked

I mean it's it's the most barking mad

album not only that I would have had

done that I think I can almost imagine

ever being done really it was the idea

came out of the code it's breakpoint TV

series the coded story was calling that

a big one the board game from it was

called code its breakpoint that was how

popular show was and they had this idea

of putting it together some music from

that era I mean the Second World War but

was a story told by sound effects no

dialogue

so there would be we had a sort of

script for the whole and that had to

work out ways of doing it

just in sound and then every now and

then piece of music from the period to

kind of bring smiles back to the

otherwise earnest

storyline so I recorded Spitfire soon

from the inside and outside fabulous

tanks and centurion tanks everything

that had to do with Colditz castle was

recorded inside dover castle because it

had exactly the same cobblestones over

the which the jackboots and the wooden

clogs would walk etc etc so it was a

bizarre project and as I say no no

dialogue so you just have to kind of

trust that people are following you

along with the story it sounds an

incredibly involved bizarre project I

mean it's a great photo cause I mean

with there's huge rifle mics in with the

baffles around them and they have a gun

handle but it was stereo yeah it was

very

just standing underneath while Spitfire

split over my head and and while tanks

rolled by and then I suppose we better

move on to your first real production

job lapse which was I think you were

talking about it earlier Europe you work

with Yvonne element that was see yes I

was writing the songs both David and I

were asked to write songs for her first

album after Jesus Christ Superstar and

and we would write what we felt was sort

of bespoke songs based on long

conversations with her about if she were

to write the songs what would she be

writing about and it was in the end it's

kind of a run like a therapy session you

you can't keep going it's not just done

in terms of what other people are doing

it's done in terms of what it's inside

her to come out and she was just very

very keen she was anymore

barely 20 21 I think she'd started with

Jesus Christ Superstar as Mary Magdalene

when she was 17 she just wanted to get a

shot of this sort of quasi said

religious thing she wants to do things

that were really funky naughty

you know Butchie so we and she had lots

of these little fantasies and we wrote

songs mostly about her fantasies but

very much born out of let's call them

interviews with her she had a very food

fetishistic thing and someone the first

song of the album is called casserole me

over which is literally about engaging

with food in every way possible

physically and then you know quite saucy

room and it actually had lesbian

fantasies she wasn't a lesbian but she

and what kinds of fantasies above that

ended up being called for reasons you'd

have to go in here Muse new dreams or

Mosley dreams depending on your

pronunciation and in there there was a

cover she wants to do a version of I

can't explain and they always been one

of her favorite songs by the whom I had

the cheek on my first pop-up production

to call him up I I got his number I mean

didn't live in country mansions and all

that then he lived in an accordion so

her and we were recording in Oxford

Circus I got his number and he answered

the phone and I just said you don't know

me but I'm just said I'd record one of

your songs I'd love to have you play

guitar on it now I would I definitely

expected as you might well well yeah you

know and how many other hundred people

but well why not at all

he said waiting I said down the corner

air studio

with Yvonne Elliman who did play Mary

Magdalene yeah okay wait really fighting

yeah I mean it was magnificent and he

played it in a way that I thought out

Shawn the original completely but that's

more to do with the guitar choice on the

original it's a 12-string I think the

whole thing was much less biting

whereas we recorded three tracks all of

them here left right center in the mix

that are vaguely know and mostly the

same but none was all the variations

weren't meant to be triple tracked but I

just loved all the variations and it was

really really strong really I mean

Yvonne loved it

Pete himself loved it and he from that

moment on I got occasional bands and

artists forwarded to me by Pete for

production really interests very nice

fantastic nice beginning absolutely

another album we were talking about just

prior to starting this was the Kevin

Ayers

I want the confessions of dr. dream yes

how did you get involved with Kevin as a

as a producer and it was the management

and Rebecca and Peter who actually I saw

Peter Jenna yes if I saw just three days

ago I mean I've seen him for ageing

place I mean we immediately talked Matt

mm-hmm that album because it was so

another significant point for me I've

been such a fan of Kevin Ayers and such

a huge fan of that first soft machine

album not when it got more and more

jazzy I was less keen but that first

album was very kind of rather like Pink

Floyd's first record we said bad it had

that lovely psychedelic unhinged no why

if you can't follow this kind of

methodology who is just lovely in that

sense it was really jazz I mean it was

very improvised but it was still sort of

vaguely songs he wouldn't really call

them pop songs but there were and some

great moods and that

and as I said I'd love to do that with

you Kevin especially if we can record

why are we sleeping again because I said

that was on that first soft machine

album and already soft machine had gone

to do different things and Kevin had

long gone but he still kept playing that

song and his own set they said sure

let's do that and that's my favorite

track on that record it's incredibly

dynamic lots of very adventurous stuff

but never too much you know just harness

no it's definitely I think my favorite

version of that song actually on that

record it was a blessing yes with a

curse making life easy by making it

worse was great happening wonderful

wonderful album as well and soon after

that you you had another band yourself

called some jump yes you have got the

chronology very right there mark I kind

of didn't get muddled up these days it

did start quick pretty soon after that

in fact yes John Perry and Mark Warner

who played on both the Yvonne element

albums and on Kevin Ayers um became two

of the four players along with myself

and trip and race to form quantum jump

and quantum jump was an effort to do

jazz rock slash jazz funk but around

what we still felt or one I still felt

where songs knew him again maybe not pop

songs but leaning towards pop songs but

in the best sense you know pop songs in

that sixties sense which became an

eighties sense as well that it's not

plastic and it's not formulaic and it's

not factory driven it can be very

instant spontaneous and and then it was

out of including these jazzy rocky jazzy

funky elements by weird time signatures

and let's just say unusual time

signatures and lots of very

desperately impressive guitar playing

from Mark Warner I don't think anyone

else was trying to be Olivia mark was

trying to be he just was a very

impressive guitarist Andy so he was

unleashed on tracks that were gorgeous

from the guitars perspective my keyboard

planes always been more as a writer than

a player so I wasn't in a triangle I

mean I would go to great lengths to keep

up because lots of the things we had to

play had to be doubled and for that took

me a lot of another hard work learning

I'm sure he did me good I could imagine

you I'm thinking of no American starship

for so is is it's over there Salem on

that it's one take from Mark one tape

from beginning to end

nothing edited nothing it's just an

amazing solo I still think I had it not

so long ago it still sounds amazing and

yes and yes it does indeed and and on

the only first album you recorded the

song which I guess most people would

know quantum jump for which is the hit

was a hit much later yeah The Lone

Ranger

yeah this is a good bit of fun it was a

fairway track on the first album it was

done at the last minute for a laugh and

it's meant to be a laugh obviously the

lyrics are very much a lot so it was a

top scene at the end of the day and then

Jeremy Thomas the excellent brilliant

record label chap for electric records

just said move it I love it I love it

all we just need something fantastic to

happen in the first 15 seconds because

that otherwise very very nice but

standard intro just give a cup of chords

and Melissa Lou hundred bring people

here names and I've been told that by so

many shots that singles for other people

in the previous three or four years

momentarily I was disappointed from

Jeremy coming up with the same old thing

something exciting the first 15 six so

in that mood of slightly belligerent but

one but nine he was a good chap sitting

on the blue as you do reading the

Guinness Book of Records always a great

me I just noticed that the longest word

in the world seemed to have exits in

Maori seem to have as much as I could

tell a lot of amazing rhythm in it

and I was fortunate enough to have him

across to you at that time in which

Chris Thomas from my foot man what the

whole of Matt four men were we're

recording there and he's from New

Zealand I just asked him I plunked the

book in front of him and said can you

say how to pronounce this and he did I

mean slowly but quite shortly I said can

you right now phonetically anyway long

story short I I learnt it phonetically

and sure enough it it was full of all

this wisdom you all that tell matter

what I tell you it was like fantastic

sounding so I I thought I know what I

put the longest word in the world on the

on the front of that song I just like

that Parbat rarity they'll probably

think it's got something to his ready

engines given is about the Lone Ranger

I mean readiness and cowboys in that

sense and it did

Jeremy's absolutely adored it he

immediately whisked it onto a couple of

people a BBC radio was it one by then

think it was just for anyone they loved

it and next thing I knew it was Tony

Blackburn the record of the week before

it was banned it was bound was in 1974

that first release it was banned it was

banned for homosexual references and

drug references may be Maskman he

approved to try it on with le Tonto

that is not afraid you'd over here today

but back in those days it was meant

lovingly

and with character he smoked pipe of

peace with Tonto put his mask on back to

front oh that was deemed to be it where

they must be smoking marijuana surely

that's a pipe of peace so they banned it

the BBC we need the PostScript to the

story and it's just how did so how did

he become a hit years later so five

years later by which time it had become

Kenny Everett's favorite thing to use on

his radio show that's right yes and he

was just about to go to the TV show that

he became yes

famous for and then that axis as the

window Jeremy asked if we could read me

if I can remix it that original version

sped up all the way through in a very

live on this kind of way yes but by 1979

you know the sort of the disco

repetition had ironed out things like

temporary differences competing it was

both to do so I went in and I'm very

very long in vote way managed to get it

all by using the original tape still all

the instrumental side of it I managed to

get it all together from the first verse

repeated I just moved the guitar pass

that market on and other things and then

added a sort of fistful of dollars

slightly Italians soundtrack for cowboy

Western elements yeah Oh what you think

we had terrible mashup but it was it was

good fun and the humor in the song was

made perhaps more obvious and what a

sign of the times between 1974 and 1979

nine nobody talked of a ban in 79 and

nobody raised an eyebrow to anything and

it became we went all the way up to

number three in the top ten

stopped by ring my bell a man was it

yeah I remember a few appearances on Top

of the Pops my only time on that sort of

pop telly

probably just as well really is this the

only time you've been on Top of the Pops

oh well um as as myself

yes played with others sometimes but I

was good well you were talking about the

tempo changes how on earth did you cope

with that in the days of analog just as

I said by repeating the first birth so

usually the razorblade kind of thing was

it curry paste but in the old school

comes faced with actual scissors well no

yeah and then and use the intro again in

the middle so we had the return of the

talmud at what cattingly word appeared

in the middle much to everyone's

applause and that's what only with so

many people come up to me in the street

and say you know i can say that word i

say okay go ahead

i think well it's a

town Bush keep on the bangy and never

ever do it but eventually I got sent

things that I have to people find there

in that pair have worked it out and

learnt it as well the silly thing to do

but what does the word mean the hill

whereon was played the flute of Tama

tyre circumnavigated of lands for his

ladylove it's the name of a place in

sand John's Island really off the coast

in New Zealand says technically it is

one word but like as with a lot of

German seems to fool the Scriptures once

were that his practice may happen yes

five or six elements that I separate

working that stick

well of course it sort of just was the

end of that the quantum jump thing you

you then became associated with farmyard

studios well we formed yesterday right

rather drummer Trevor and myself decided

that as we recorded in these rehearsal

rooms which he owned along with his

houses he he bought from duck Bogart I

mentioned that just as a I said we think

that fun that studious was in God's own

house and used as a rehearsal room so we

just moved mobile recording studios into

the courtyard and plug them up to either

the rehearsal rooms and then we thought

maybe we should make is a more permanent

thing so we raised the money borrowed

cash on the finance for industry program

that Margaret Thatcher able people had

just introduced

really but that's what funded a studio

and they got all their money back times

whatever so that was nice and that's yes

so he and I I did most of my productions

throughout the 80s there and then when I

wasn't there are other people booked the

studio as well because I was gonna refer

to some of the things you didn't that in

the late 70s there you said you work

with the band camel and you did two

albums with someone known to us at is

Terry Antony Phillips and it as well and

yeah he's adorable chap I'm very very

talented guy at that point he was still

very much managed by hit and run who

managed Genesis and Peter Gable and then

eventually Phil Collins and I was all

the Genesis family and they were keen to

see if they could you know make his

songs less pardoning any pun esoteric

and more say more commercial but he's

not really a singer he's the first

person to tell you that the songwriting

itself and the text was all really

really good and I liked his various

interesting I liked the personality of

the very cool hmm and I felt sure those

people that enjoy his music would as

well so we did two albums the first one

very much were just Antony singing and

then the second one they got two other

people from the Genesis camp who were

actually if I'm ever writes me

roadies for Genesis American Raley's who

also just very good singers and they got

them to sing otherwise all Antony's

brilliant excuse me Antony's parts and

he's a good Orchestrator and arranger so

he did everything but the vocals that

were done by two guest American chaps I

know where we spoken to Antony about it

he always refers fondly to those those

records as well yeah good yeah this was

still the era of you know made people

quoting Monty Python every five minutes

you know and during the record making

process it's surprising how often you

can I mean 20 30 years later the same

thing everyone was just quoting from

spinal tap because there's so many great

quotes there but you know you use those

shared commonalities as a way of

expressing things less directly but just

as meaningfully I'll often very funny

and moving into the 80s you you produced

a diverse series of albums for various

people from the Canadian band saga yeah

through to Tina Turner and Howard Jones

yeah not much in common there no nothing

at all and in fact in terms of sort of

style all very different I mean when you

approach producing an album but with

that someone what are the things you

look for in terms of that because I

would say that some producers have a

sound or a style that is instantly

recognizable across various albums but

with yourself I think it's it's

difficult to say that's a Ruppert high

in production because everything sounds

different and the essence of the artist

is there so how do you approach

something like that for example when you

asked to work with Tina Turner what did

you how did you approach privately the

stuff you did on private dancer everyone

completely differently I mean that's

it's very complimentary view you've just

given partly because I always had a

great dislike for the I did a producer

would come with a built-in sound because

then you would be as an artist fed into

that conveyor belt popped out the other

end

having been glossed up or whatever that

a paper attached to him was by that

producer I always treated it much more

we've mentioned the term already like a

therapist in other words what is this

artist trying to say and say with each

individual song how is he wanting to

change the way the audience feels four

minutes later this became a phrase I

would use a lot so not particularly

knowing me at first but meaning that's

the essence of it if we're going to

spend X amount of weeks or months making

a record and you're going to tell me

that this far as this one song we're

working on now is you don't know how you

want the audience to feel at the end of

four minutes music is all about feeling

it was an intellectual comprehension

from the text and everything but music

ultimate is

feeling and what it means to you the

listener so I if I could get a handle on

that and then we could really conscious

some something up and I will maybe be as

surprised as hopefully you might be mr.

artist you know we can fashion something

up together that will be more you than

anything he may have done before and

certainly more you than anything I've

ever done before

so that with that approach was used

consistently and could therefore be

applied to any kind of music completely

obviously by definition and that sense

of the new all the time was what dragged

me forward and what made it always a

very passionate act I always loved it

because if we were just came something

new for them and for me and that's still

being true I think all the way through I

never really felt back occasionally if

some artists would ask you need me to

produce him in the way of another artist

that I had produced and I always turned

them which was very dispiriting to them

but I said well no because then it'll be

a second way of version of what I did

for them probably or at least a carbon

copy at best

by the way not very exciting but either

this surely know it's interesting I

think because as I say some producers

are very much yeah would would go for

the for the easy option to protect me I

mean I've got nothing against the people

that do that people who do it very well

thanks Martin Lang is a great example

there was a Mutt Lange a way of doing

and you have to fit every single way he

did it but you've got a guaranteed sound

at the end of it that was at that time

very glossy and people loved it you know

so how did your association with Howard

Jones for example come about was was

that something the record company

brought to you or did you know Howard

the firm well actually I mean on paper

it looks like the record company bought

it to me and and literally they did but

max hull had just become a head so I

come in as a critical term because it

was the boss of all the A&R aspects of

the newly-born

WEA

at that point which was Warner's Elektra

Atlantic in London and or in England I

should say and they were the ones that

through David stops managing hard were

particular acts whole we're into it and

Max had to have a company called Gemini

with Jeff juice which was an agency in

the 70s that looked after camel and

other artists of that kind max and Jeff

Jeff had become my manager then so that

was one link max had now been in WEA and

they said between them always hit conv

see if you can see just see what you

think of this guy no he's not he then he

put one single out but that single had

gone through the roof and they were very

keen to do more so I went to see him

play it

Friar's in Ellsbury you know after one

single I expected you know a couple

dozen people and you know interested in

the middle of I don't send don't say

nowhere but you know relative over

London music scene and I turned up the

pace was rammed they really excessive

two thousand people crammed into fryers

heaving there were girls fainting in the

front row and being taken out by B while

I have my own photographs I took myself

out of disbelief Howard on stage with

his little rig and Jed the mime artist

and at one point he goes up and plays

the the organ that belongs it's fit into

the building this huge thing and it was

such an exciting gig this audience were

just paralytic it was amazing vibe so it

was it was undeniable and that was a gig

was only a few miles from farmyard

studio so might very enthusiastically

said yes let's do something and we did

and it was fabulous success my first

my first top 10 top 3 in fact Japan

which charted top it was number one but

album yes on the day of the release

which and what his love was the single

was released to coincide with the album

release new new song had been the hit a

few months earlier which Colin Thurston

had done and you did you went on to do

another album with we did and

technically four arms altogether but two

of them were remixes dance me rocks

elongated dance remixes which was a

great fun that was at the time it was

all again quite fresh they got him a

boring later on physically became an

expected thing to do yes yes singles but

at that point we were having great fun

doing it and Howard brilliant billion

artists still is a magnificent artist

such a great great writer is a bigger

fan than not as I've ever been as it you

went from Howard's and soon after to do

Tina Turner's private dancer yes yes the

first album was in between

yeah the first private dancer I'm the

first one I did was him between Howard's

two arms how did you get involved with

that project that was Roger Davis her

manager who I'd Bruce backward the fix

during this time pace right exactly mean

nothing here in England they are an

English band that went through the roof

became my first top ten albums in

America they all did knighted for with

them hugely successful and Tina loved

the fix Roger Davis knew that I was on a

producer who was also a songwriter and

that perhaps I could furnish some songs

for the record yes which I did so in the

end there were four of us altogether

involved on that album that recorded and

wrote two or three albums age and to the

three songs night and that was that was

great fun to do in sheets brilliant that

was my first experience someone who's

never been topped in my 150 albums

in terms of doing a first take vocal

from top to toe not patching in a single

note or syllable and only on the first

time I recorded her did I ask for a

second take just because she it was one

of my own songs I heard it back it's

such a fool for he says I was just I've

been attacked in a delightful way but

then I thought what am i but she seems

to be really responsible and what if

there's a tentacle Gina just in case

there's a technical thing I lean forward

on think another take

the chorus and she said of backed off

and I got a second take

and the amazing thing was it was almost

as good I mean it was at such a high

level but of course the word to be

underlined there is almost mmm

so I many tracks later she we actually

and I had a conversation about this just

about how you can put so much into a

one-take performance and this is such a

obvious elegant answer she said well I

played in front of 400,000 people in San

Paulo now and done some of the biggest

audiences in the world she wasn't saying

that puffy chested she was saying when

you go up to a microphone in front of

that many people to sing a song boy you

better be absolutely on the money

because you're not gonna get halfway

through the second verse hang on

everybody we're just going to pack up

and pick up the beginning of this verse

I hope you guys won't mind made a bit of

a fluff there you're not going to do

that so - in the studio I do the same

thing which is why she would always

stand back away from the mic and she'd

be doing this little warm-up sing not

very obviously physically but you can

see it going through the phases and then

she walk up to the mic it was Unleashed

and it was so focused you know with

drama with passion with humor whatever

song require

down to a tea and she would rehearse for

days or weeks in advance with a backing

track that I would give her would she

play in the car and she'd sing along

with it in the car

really until it became as she would put

it her song and then she called me out

absolutely but it's my song now and you

know it's like fire engines get them all

out no not that had to be that urgent

but it was that exciting so I would pick

her up at her house in Kensington we

drive up to formula unleash row to the

microphone buffer back seconds later

what seemed like seconds say they will

put they will first takes all that

things just astounding that's incredible

it is it is incredibly still incredible

to this day and and done just as a

continual performance no dropper you

know there anything it's a fantastic you

know

so the second to me that the Secretary's

a bit under it was everything had gone

to that first performance so in a

concert you wouldn't say immediately is

not such applause okay I'll do that one

again for you you wouldn't and

everything's just focused amazing

fantastic and I'm still is impressive I

mean no that's that's a very impressive

approach - yeah - singing and recording

I must admit

yeah and of course while so you were

having the production success I mean

just prior to this you did three

fantastically innovative solo albums and

he's now III think bizarrely you know

failing to to gain I think the

commercial success that they they

deserved

they critically I know many musicians

who raped them very highly indeed they

were immensely helpful I mean

particularly the first of three on N and

that time which was that my collaborator

on the project Stephen W Taylor Oh on

the face of it the engineer and I was

the artist such producer but we really

worked as a production team and he took

care of everything to do with the board

and the more he did that I didn't

understand

as a producer the more I loved not

understanding it because that brought me

some of them very early magic back you

know I wouldn't rush up to him said how

did you get that thang would you change

my voice by now or what do you do to

this I wouldn't I just wallow in the

fact that I didn't really know and I'm

supposed to be one of those and what

about that but I like there not knowing

and the whole thing was we never did

anything on that album either us it was

done who said what's their way not a

template but not instructions but let's

call it a manual that we cannot do it

anything that we've done before on the

making of each song and each part of

this album so if I want to record the

bass drum he doesn't just immediately go

for d12 close that's his favorite that's

the one like you can't use oil to use

nothing inappropriate and figure out how

to make it work I'm with all the

instrumentation and all the choice of

instruments on this on this something

you really hear muted guitar thing okay

so that's the one thing we can't use

that how many in the end I'll use that

by pushing my fingers against the

strings of a piano and hitting the piano

keys but as by doing that you can

suddenly find that you move your fingers

and of course think you can affect the

harmonics suddenly these limitations

each one becomes fantastic new think and

that was happening all the way through

we did an incredibly complicated album

in five weeks doing things that we'd

never done before making it up as we

went along purposely in a way we've

never done before and in terms of

actually sort of playing that live I

mean I know you did some hell of a shaky

things in which I've seen in I think

Sweden I think is yeah

once we did yes and around Europe but

yeah it was it was tricky because there

wasn't what we were effectively I was

using lots of things that weren't

instruments there were all just things

you could knock or hiss or scrape or and

making them musical so later on that was

called sampling mmm and there were

devices to do this at that point there

wasn't you know there were affected his

tin cans and that's a string that Roger

talked about there were ways it where

you and you know I'm not in love you

know the the wonderful tape loops that

we used on that with 10cc that's pride

of something that was so easy

theoretically to do a few years later

but at that time you know they made up

essentially tape loops so each time you

raised her a Phaedra was a different

note on it so you'd be playing the

failures of the console as if it were a

keyboard and I was doing the same things

with rhythm melody with all the there

was the odd instrument in there I used

the piano quite a bit but not often

sounding like a straight piano you know

was used as a great device and that made

electronic things happen in ways that

people didn't understand so lots of

other artists love the fact they

couldn't understand what the hell I was

up to here but they loved the effect and

I was asked therefore to produce a whole

lot of people off the back of those arms

including Rush much later but a lot of a

lot of different artists I'm sure I

think I think they they were very much

it's a it's a term that is used a lot

better very much ahead in their time I

think in the way they sound

they sound considering when they record

it they were very unique I think at that

point with it was quite a striking thing

to listen to at the time I like to think

so yeah I like I mean that's certainly

in a way what I always a mia has just to

make it the maximum version of me in the

same way that when I'm producing other

artists I want to get the maximum

version

did you ever stop during that period you

just see working 16-hour days not even

thinking about it you work with the as I

say you work with some other wonderful

people said you mentioned Robert Palmer

earlier yes you know he was a huge fan

of that immunity in that first album

really huge fan and I found out he was

playing two or three tracks of it as the

walk in music at the beginning of his

gigs my audiences came into the theater

he loved hang on to my vertigo you know

surface tension both of which are on the

esoteric that's right I wasn't just

about to give that one a plan and so

that was like working with someone I've

been a huge fan of his on the record it

was the previous record of his you know

Johnny and Mary on it and it was very

much his walk a little bit away from

normal instrumentation and using cooler

more interesting things so he he asked

me to get together and we combined on

what became his pride album kay wrote a

couple of songs and helped you out

keyboards on all them and he didn't pay

me anything and he came and produced my

vocals on wildest wish to fly so

bartering system region I love ya there

was no you know we just we just swapped

talents that we could do for each other

fantastic and you recorded with him in

the in the Bahamas did you know we did

yes he lived there because it wasn't

like we went off to some fancy holiday

recording session he lived there right

opposite compass points two years which

was Island studios right on the

by podcast and here's his house was

opposite the studio literally right on

the see little house very modest little

house wasn't flashy and had but it had a

little balcony on it so in the morning

you wake up so I was staying there with

him and we stood on the balcony and he

said let's go for a swim

and we just flop over his balcony into

the water take out his little glass

bottom boat look just as different

things listen all I'm making I don't

even sound Grandpop people he's mine and

we went out and he fished for a lobster

which we would then eat while I wouldn't

but bit too much of a veggie but was

great fun doing it and then he wouldn't

stop working until about 6:00 the

evening I mean and then he'd say passion

it's that point of doing this no I said

dinner we started about nine but then we

go from nine till three working really

hard just almost maniacally me to sleep

and do that same cycle again and how

long's it how long were you working in

the Bahamas with him not long as we did

quite a bit more that he came over to

England and we carried on doing it had

family I'd say it's probably anymore for

weeks maybe five weeks and I did bit of

work with Tom Tom Club while over there

because they were on they lived in on

Friday as well yeah and and some others

that's a mother Sindri Island people so

moving on to especially on the second

part of your career as an artist you

release some material under the name

think man yes a well thought out this

line of thinking mark I congratulate

your making sense of this much more

easing I might have done and what

happened by the time the third of that

triumvirate that became on showing the

skyline content as it were that said

album by the time that came out I was

getting a lot of reviews that people

that might not

have reviewed albums that were a little

bit off the beaten track like that but

they tended to use something in the

about the headline of the article would

be along the lines of I don't remember

any particular one you know successful

producer makes own album and I really

resented that because I had always done

my own albums first right back very

beginning and I'd always continuously

put records on either as quantum jumps

over albums whatever and I resented that

and I just woke up one morning thought

what do you want I could why don't I

pretend to be a band I'll just slip into

one of the members of the band and we'll

market it has a band and therefore best

I won't even look anymore like just I'm

producing it you know that I might be

playing keyboards or whatever than that

often was true so that was the beginning

of it and couple that most importantly

with the idea that syncman has a concept

was a very very particular thing that

Jeannette Bob Stein he was writing the

songs with me in that time has the

lyricist and I had in terms of we loved

the idea of having said the dangerous

expression now but at that time we used

to use it media terrorism and that we we

were media terrorists and the idea was

that we were going to write planetary

global wrongs by having members of

Syngman which was as far as this movie

script win because it was originally

gonna be a movie as well it was think

member were these media terrorists that

were working in all areas of Arts and

Culture film television music so yeah if

they were music then the idea is stable

whilst they were in a TV studios doing

the equivalent of my Top of the Pops for

that country whatever in between the

rough run phrase and things earlier on

and the actual broadcast later an

evening

they've been scaling the building

finding tapes

getting all the outtakes and gluing them

together let's say and making sure that

was swapped for the program it was going

to go out which was really not the truth

and all these examples were included in

this script in the end the film was

abandoned perhaps I mean even though

Chris Blackwell at Highland really liked

the idea a lot but it became more and

more expensive when he realized so we we

settled on just calling it an album but

therefore it is very much a conceptual

album based on that original film plot

and based on the fact that most of these

songs are about wrongs that needed

writing or at least about the situation

that strange did we find ourselves in

again today with feet on their shoes on

different things yeah again I think that

the the music is is ahead of its time I

think I think the whole the whole

concept thing is is is interesting

Julian Clary was involved with with this

and indeed appears in promotional video

he doesn't is the the whole band were

actors except for me so I just carried

on making the records I always made my

own records playing everything but by

the time we went and geeked and we did

he come in handy the actor who played

the bass part

the bass player learnt let's play those

parts as an actor really have you

plugged him ears it worked fine and

maybe it wasn't finest performance on it

but he knew how to play and the same

with Jo leo hell is he was he called in

the band the drummer Julian Clary was

the keyboardist because I was basically

doing the other keyboards argument and

vocals and and joining in some Simmons

pads table dummy things in that time

so they were three actors and Julian was

then he had the Joan Collins fan club

with his comedy and so he was just on

the alternative comedy circuit and did

he was up in all the actors and models

books port failures he was in all of

those and it was Jeanette who chose him

from one of those and then we realized

that he was a gentleman spanked them

went and saw the act which we found

riveting ly funny but very few people

knew about from that time he was really

er hmm put it out there alternative

comedy circuit guy so yeah he fitted in

very well had lots of the fun times

particularly playing essentially mind

gigs on German television you know which

they mostly were at that time

yes many ways TV show you did so it kind

of didn't matter that they couldn't play

it absolutely what was more important is

when I came to be working with Jeanette

on directing the videos they responded

to directing direction brilliantly but

with a ban you know really well and you

try and get him to come through that

door and walk across room life and yet

he walked in such a ridiculous way you

know he would never walk but he's acting

so he's you think just yes I was so this

way around we could well with proper

actors get them to do that were you but

you made a series of albums distinct man

for various reasons you know again

mysteriously they weren't as

commercially successful as that is they

in some parts well they look Canada they

were very successful and Germany they

were successful Scandinavia also was

pretty good but its kind of neighborhood

really liked the three solo yes so for

and that they and because in a way I was

trying to make the record sound a bit

more like a band in other words I wasn't

doing all there yes

clever weird sound things I was actually

came back to what could least be

disguised as a pop or rock

instrumentation so I was purposely

moving away from that and that was a

change for me rather than trying to

continue something which

felt like I'd done that so it was fun

doing that and you know what Jamie west

autumn from the fix again it's a shame

always at women I was talking about the

fix here in England you know everybody

knows who you're talking about but in

America they it was so huge for an

English band I blame the enemy really do

music Express like not just with us but

hated English bands being successful in

America first immediately

it's like pulled the rug from underneath

you said we don't know yes and that was

it that was it you were just ignored no

it's now I'd yes I think in those eyes

at the same time yes same thing happened

huge in America you know think of them

here at all no it's it's um I think the

music press in those days is perhaps a

bit more sort of sneery than it is now

I think Germany I think today people are

much more open-minded about music

general and I love their reasoning for

that sneering I have proved up

tremendously it's just they weren't

really clearing their own minds where

that window yes should really exist and

who was close to it but not in it

looking back on those think man

recordings no how do you how do you view

them it's the first one the form the

formula is by far my favorite and I

think the majority of the tracks are

well may all have charting but a good

chunk of the tracks on this new

compilation not leap from there because

that was the original concept and all

those conceptual songs are there as

meaningful I think now as they were then

some way to you more which is nicely

reassuring well on one level

personal level as far as the planet goes

are not so much sure but and the second

life is a full-time occupation there's

two or three tracks from there but

already there was a I was surprised that

we were asked to do a second thing when

I'm because it was a concept um mmm so

yeah

you've got to view that as an episode in

a longer story which was kind of tricky

because we said pretty much ever they

wanted to say in that group of songs but

I managed to eke it out more than he

keyed out the two tracks from there or

three maybe is that's on this

compilation I really really like but the

ones in between tends to show more an

interest in doing sort of music that I

like to listen to at that time then

that's not necessarily a good reason why

you should do yourself you know it's

right I don't like this track so much by

the time we got to the third of those

think my albums of the three it became

pretty much like a root behind record

again hmm I wasn't bothering really he

still came out under the name think man

but otherwise there was no pretense that

there was no touring there was no

involvement of the actors were anything

like that it was just me and also the

nature of the way it was written was

much more like the three original read

behind records on the unsure of the

skyline album so I I like that very much

it's not quite so Dinkelman but most

people wouldn't be know what to be

thinking would not to be thinking in his

life and lead to closing moment but one

thing I need to ask you what I mean your

silverman immensely busy person well

what are you involved with these days

approach you could give us some idea

about what what your current activities

are very briefly because I think we

wanted to do is rabid on us and have

things out side of this room other than

they're mostly musical I do have a

publishing company which means I keep a

music publishing company where I keep a

very direct and in with artists

songwriters who I really like and

cultivate and that's a joint project

with BMG ijv with them which is I've

been a great great to work with and I

did that very soon after this version of

being released

did any what was 10 years ago started

that maybe 7 or 8 years ago my label JV

with them and they've expanded very very

well in a very new model but I think

works extremely well so I'm involved

with those artists on a sort of hands-on

anyway I'm a board member this is gonna

sound tedious when you mention board

member a bit of the Iowa's Academy that

was up until recently known as Baskar

the British Academy of songwriters

composers and authors so that's the body

that represents all songwriters and you

in the UK and composers and authors as

the name implies but we just decided

that it's too long-winded a name and

everybody knows us from the Ivor Novello

Awards which are the biggest award

don't say Cher I mean it is but award

system that only Awards some waiters

we're not there to you know all

performers I mean obviously with an Ed

Sheeran or an Adele you can have the two

in the same package and they get their

fair share of awards yes I know but it's

much for all the punting pun unsung

components of those songs you know that

sit in the back writing all the songs

for these artists who wouldn't be able

to write at that level without them it's

a tremendous organization

I'm as lively a part of that as I can be

and it's been reborn in the last year or

two it's a much stronger more pointed

front-end active group and it's very

very exciting because we're working

defending artists and creators riots all

over Europe and the world where we where

it's influential by that I mean that one

has to go to Washington to speak on

their behalf

as well as Brussels and as well as other

so that's a very much as a spokesman for

some writers and creators generally and

then thirdly and finally I have a tech

company that had been building for the

last seven years with Alan Graham who is

comes out of the Silicon Valley world as

a tech writer I mean he did work a lot

in tech as well be known for his writing

and he and I came up with some ideas to

really help this help address this

imbalance between creators and tech

companies because on the one hand we

were mad keen on what tech could do mmm

like so many of us whooping field we've

been sort of wrong-footed a bit by a lot

of them as soon as it gets to a point

where it's just you know pumping up

capitalism to religious proportions

without any true feedback to the real

creators this has had to be addressed

not only through the Ivar's Academy but

also with tech like ours which is a

micro licensing technology between

rights users and rights owners it's such

a long career you still isn't you still

as enthusiastic the theistic as ever

about making about music and people who

make music I am I am and there's some

great writing going on you get people

because it's such a massive amount of

interference out there on the internet

you know most people can't they think

that the kind of music they like is not

being made anymore but it's only because

there's so much interference it's so

hard to find and so therefore they

really need to find its a way while

having great playlists on the streaming

company or any other device but there's

nothing quite as comparable as having

this highly recommended by ideally

people you know and if not people you

know then people you respect and if they

come up with you know things that you

should they think maybe you should

listen to mmm that's what you want

enough depth then you cut as are these

people that feel disillusioned feeling

oh gosh maybe

business of cool stuff still being

written it's not a question of storming

written in submission of New START

that's been written for the first time

in different ways and we just need to

make sure that it gets a chance and that

massive haystack of the internet and it

picks up and we help and you're still as

optimistic as ever about the future of

music are you using definitely I mean it

can always go through periods when

people are less looking towards music

for some real stimulus that affects the

way they feel as you know from when I

said early on very much the point behind

whatever I can do to help music forward

but you sometimes if we live in troubled

times then you know it's rather like

you're when you look at film films that

are troubling to watch you know

difficult to watch need to be often not

need to be let's say often mostly

watched in times of comfort where that

discomfort is a sharp reminder that

things in your world or one thing in

this world or another when lies now

we're living in such an uncomfortable

world with so much divisive miss at

every turn I think people are wanting

more comfort out of their music then

they might normally but that doesn't

mean that would be true in a couple

years time so we need to be writing the

songs for them as much as we can and

encouraging the artists banana - I think

it's wonderful that you still you still

have an eye on on emerging talent and

which is so often is overlooked I think

these days yeah by people in the

business it's easy to get the old

country about it sees so many people of

my age group and they said bang on about

not like it used to be and where I was

ban on that migrated bands from the past

they were a lot of great bands and there

in the past it doesn't make sure we can

doesn't turn that

what about them anymore absolutely

Rupert thank you very much indeed for

talking to my chair at TV today thank

you making such an interesting chat oh

thank you very much thanks