Original subtitles

♪ I'm ashamed to be an American

♪ Where the fags can freely roam

♪ Where the fags can freely roam

♪ They spread their filth around this land

♪ They spread their filth around this land

♪ Every pervert calls... ♪

♪ Every pervert calls... ♪

THEROUX: For several days, I've been living among the members of the Westboro Baptist Church.

THEROUX: For several days, I've been living among the members of the Westboro Baptist Church.

♪ And proclaim God's word today... ♪

THEROUX: A fire-and-brimstone Christian group

THEROUX: A fire-and-brimstone Christian group

made up almost entirely of a single family.

♪ God hates the U...S...A... ♪

♪ God hates the U...S...A... ♪

♪ God hates the U...S...A... ♪

Welcome to our picket!

Welcome to our picket!

THEROUX: Since the Iraq War,

THEROUX: Since the Iraq War,

they've become infamous for picketing the funerals of dead soldiers

as a protest against an America that tolerates homosexuality.

as a protest against an America that tolerates homosexuality.

America is doomed! God hates fags!

America is doomed! God hates fags!

Are you a homosexual?

Are you a homosexual?

Are you or not?

We're servants of the living God, hon. What does it matter, where we came from?

We're servants of the living God, hon. What does it matter, where we came from?

THEROUX: The Westboro Baptist Church

THEROUX: The Westboro Baptist Church

is probably the most controversial church in America.

Hush up, hush up, and obey your God!

Hush up, hush up, and obey your God!

THEROUX: And for three weeks, I'd be trying to fathom

THEROUX: And for three weeks, I'd be trying to fathom

why they had created such a strange ministry.

why they had created such a strange ministry.

What is that one? Is this in the Bible?

Fags eat feces.

Fags eat feces.

That's a fact, hon!

THEROUX: The church is situated in a suburb of Topeka, Kansas.

THEROUX: The church is situated in a suburb of Topeka, Kansas.

Its pastor is the family patriarch, Fred Phelps,

Its pastor is the family patriarch, Fred Phelps,

also known as Gramps.

also known as Gramps.

Hi.

Hi.

-Hi there. You must be Shirley. -Yes.

-I'm Louis. -Hi, Louis.

-I'm Louis. -Hi, Louis.

THEROUX: But in the last few years. the day-to-day operations

are now run by the pastor's daughter, Shirley,

are now run by the pastor's daughter, Shirley,

a lawyer and mother to 11 children.

a lawyer and mother to 11 children.

-So this is an office area? -Yes.

So these are your signs.

So these are your signs.

You've got "God hates fags" here.

You've got "God hates fags" here.

Uh-huh. And "God hates you."

Don't think of fags as just those guys

Don't think of fags as just those guys

taking it up the tailpipe.

Think of it as people who are involved

Think of it as people who are involved

in some perverted sex act.

in some perverted sex act.

I'm talking about anything other than one man, one woman

I'm talking about anything other than one man, one woman

in their marriage bed.

So beneath that

So beneath that

are there gradations of iniquity, as it were?

If you see a nation or a people

If you see a nation or a people

who have risen up with one voice to say

who have risen up with one voice to say

that it's okay to be gay,

you're looking at a doomed people. Those people have crossed the line.

you're looking at a doomed people. Those people have crossed the line.

When you say "gay pride,"

When you say "gay pride,"

you have obviously given over any trace or any notion

you have obviously given over any trace or any notion

that you're gonna admit that you're sinning.

You understand that, don't you?

You understand that, don't you?

It's okay to be gay, it's an innocent, alternate lifestyle?

That's what I believe.

That's what I believe.

Well, then you can't say, then you believe it's not a sin.

-THEROUX: Yes. -And so you condemn yourself,

-THEROUX: Yes. -And so you condemn yourself,

'cause by your words are you justified

'cause by your words are you justified

and by your words are you condemned.

and by your words are you condemned.

But am I right, though, that Jesus, it wasn't actually a big thing for him.

But am I right, though, that Jesus, it wasn't actually a big thing for him.

He had other priorities rather than homosexuality.

It's not one of the Ten Commandments, is it?

It's not one of the Ten Commandments, is it?

-Yes. -Which one?

"Thou shalt not commit adultery."

"Thou shalt not commit adultery."

That's not being gay. That's cheating on someone.

That's not being gay. That's cheating on someone.

The streets of this nation

are full of married men having fag sex.

are full of married men having fag sex.

That's adultery.

So don't try to pretend

that you don't come under the umbrella of adultery

that you don't come under the umbrella of adultery

just because you're a fag.

-Hi, guys. -Hi.

-Hi, guys. -Hi.

Hi.

-This is Gabriel. -How do you do?

-This is Gabriel. -How do you do?

-How do you do? -This is Grace.

Hi.

Hi.

THEROUX: For the last few years,

the church has taken its message of God's hate

the church has taken its message of God's hate

to the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan,

to the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan,

reasoning that they were struck down by God

for fighting for a depraved and doomed nation.

for fighting for a depraved and doomed nation.

So, what is the plan today?

So, what is the plan today?

The plan is that we'll get out here and put these signs in the air.

The plan is that we'll get out here and put these signs in the air.

THEROUX: At the funeral?

Hun, you can call it that, but what they're doing here is they're worshipping the dead.

Hun, you can call it that, but what they're doing here is they're worshipping the dead.

You said you do research into the soldiers that have died?

You said you do research into the soldiers that have died?

He was a Staff-Sergeant, Kevin Zeigler, and he died of an IED.

He was a Staff-Sergeant, Kevin Zeigler, and he died of an IED.

That's a...

Roadside bomb.

Roadside bomb.

Right, an improvised explosive device.

Exactly.

Exactly.

It says his family was told that he and another soldier died

while trying to disable the explosive.

while trying to disable the explosive.

He was 31.

He was 31.

Do you think it's possible

that by getting in people's faces in this way,

that by getting in people's faces in this way,

you're more likely to put people off

you're more likely to put people off

the word of Jesus Christ and the Bible?

Have you thought about that,

just in terms of human psychology?

You think our job is to win souls to Christ.

You think our job is to win souls to Christ.

All we do, by getting in their face and putting signs in front of them,

All we do, by getting in their face and putting signs in front of them,

in these plain words, is make what was already in their heart

in these plain words, is make what was already in their heart

come out of their mouth.

What do you really think?

What do you really think?

This is what I really think.

But there's a part of you that doesn't think that?

But there's a part of you that doesn't think that?

No, there's not any part of me.

No, there's not any part of me.

The commandment has gone forth.

The commandment has gone forth.

-Why go down there? -America is doomed.

Because we are the evil angels.

Because we are the evil angels.

-Evil angels? -Exactly.

And it's not because we're evil people,

And it's not because we're evil people,

but because we're bringing to you the message of the evil

that God has determined upon you.

that God has determined upon you.

And once we have delivered this message...

-I thought God didn't do evil? -My goodness!

-I thought God didn't do evil? -My goodness!

Come on, guys. Let's get outta here. Let's bail!

Come on, guys. Let's get outta here. Let's bail!

This is our corner. Come on, little boys!

Zach, you hop in in case he wants you...

Zach, you hop in in case he wants you...

So, I'm gonna keep a little bit of a distance,

So, I'm gonna keep a little bit of a distance,

-'cause I'm not part of the picket. -That's okay.

-You know what I mean? -Sure.

I'm just here as a journalist...

I'm just here as a journalist...

Yes.

-...Shirley. -Yes.

-...Shirley. -Yes.

THEROUX: Today's picket was at an intersection

near a church in Kansas City, Missouri.

near a church in Kansas City, Missouri.

Among the picketers was the pastor's wife,

Among the picketers was the pastor's wife,

though of the pastor himself there was no sign.

though of the pastor himself there was no sign.

Like many states across America, Missouri has established strict regulations

Like many states across America, Missouri has established strict regulations

in an attempt to limit the Phelps' contact with the bereaved,

in an attempt to limit the Phelps' contact with the bereaved,

and I was relieved to see how far from the funeral

and I was relieved to see how far from the funeral

the church members were required to be.

ALL CHANT: God hates America!

ALL CHANT: God hates America!

America is doomed!

America is doomed!

-This is shameful. -Yeah.

-Right down shameful. -Yeah, hon.

You've got little kids like this...

You've got little kids like this...

You obviously raised your brat for the devil,

You obviously raised your brat for the devil,

your big gluttonous brat for the devil!

your big gluttonous brat for the devil!

And you go to Hell.

And you go to Hell.

I don't agree with the lifestyle.

-Yes, you do. -No, I don't.

-Yes, you do. -No, I don't.

Yes, you do. You love fags, you hate God,

so just shut up!

so just shut up!

What was he talking about?

"I don't agree with fags, but que sera sera..."

"I don't agree with fags, but que sera sera..."

"I don't agree with fags, but que sera sera..."

-Fuck you! -You think you can fix this?

You think you're gonna change God?

You think you're gonna change God?

You know why you're there, you fucking bitch?

You know why you're there, you fucking bitch?

Because you are a rebellious brat!

Because you are a rebellious brat!

That's why!

I mean, I've only been out here 25 minutes or so,

I mean, I've only been out here 25 minutes or so,

but so far the reaction has been, I'd say,

but so far the reaction has been, I'd say,

approximately 100% negative.

-Would you agree? -Yeah, I would agree.

-Would you agree? -Yeah, I would agree.

You think maybe there's another way of delivering the message,

You think maybe there's another way of delivering the message,

maybe like a letter of consolation to the family of the soldier?

maybe like a letter of consolation to the family of the soldier?

Oh, we send letters all the time, but not consolation.

You angered the Lord, your God and now he's cursed your family.

You angered the Lord, your God and now he's cursed your family.

You angered the Lord, your God and now he's cursed your family.

There's no consolation there. They're not gonna have any consolation.

As a picket today,

As a picket today,

how would you rate this, marks out of ten?

how would you rate this, marks out of ten?

Hon, they're all tens. All of them.

Jacob, would you say ten out of ten as well?

Jacob, would you say ten out of ten as well?

Yeah, God did this, therefore it's perfect.

Yeah, God did this, therefore it's perfect.

Does everything get ten out of ten, then? Everything that happens?

Does everything get ten out of ten, then? Everything that happens?

-Yeah. -Everything. Thank God for all of his judgments.

-Yeah. -Everything. Thank God for all of his judgments.

Not one word falls to the ground.

Not one word falls to the ground.

THEROUX: A little later, Shirley and I regrouped at the family homestead

where most of the 70 or so churchgoers live.

where most of the 70 or so churchgoers live.

So this is the centre of the headquarters right here?

So this is the centre of the headquarters right here?

Isn't it?

-You can call it that. -What would you call it?

-You can call it that. -What would you call it?

I'd call it my back yard.

But it's also the back yards of all these other houses.

But it's also the back yards of all these other houses.

Well, there's actually real lines of demarcation,

Well, there's actually real lines of demarcation,

but we took the fences down so that we'd be a nice place to raise all these children.

but we took the fences down so that we'd be a nice place to raise all these children.

You don't live communally with the other members of the church?

You don't live communally with the other members of the church?

No, no.

Where does Pastor Phelps, the big man, the patriarch, where does he live?

Where does Pastor Phelps, the big man, the patriarch, where does he live?

-He lives on that second floor. -Up there?

-He lives on that second floor. -Up there?

In that building you've got the house part to this side

In that building you've got the house part to this side

and you've got the church part to that side.

and you've got the church part to that side.

Have you wondered whether you might be part of a cult?

What exactly do you have to be to qualify as a cult?

What exactly do you have to be to qualify as a cult?

Well, basically it's like a fringe religious group

Well, basically it's like a fringe religious group

that exercises an inordinate amount of control

that exercises an inordinate amount of control

over its membership.

You have to have certain other things also.

You have to have certain other things also.

Brainwashing and a charismatic leader at the top?

Brainwashing and a charismatic leader at the top?

Maybe, like, Fred Phelps, your father, could qualify.

Maybe, like, Fred Phelps, your father, could qualify.

Look, hun, I don't care about all that nonsense.

Look, hun, I don't care about all that nonsense.

I'm telling you that we're the ones who are strictly adhering

I'm telling you that we're the ones who are strictly adhering

to the doctrines of faith of all the mainline religions. They're not. We are.

So what else you got?

So what else you got?

THEROUX: To help her run the ministry,

THEROUX: To help her run the ministry,

Shirley relies on her two eldest daughters,

Shirley relies on her two eldest daughters,

Megan and Bekah.

-This is Bekah's room, okay. -Ta-da!

-This is Bekah's room, okay. -Ta-da!

I don't see any posters of pop bands.

I don't see any posters of pop bands.

No.

-Can we look in your closet? -I guess you can.

-Can we look in your closet? -I guess you can.

You have quite a lot of clothes.

Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah, pretty much.

Are there rules about what you can and can't wear?

Modesty.

Modesty.

Our parents don't have to tell us. We know what we can and can't wear.

We know what's appropriate.

We know what's appropriate.

How do the girls at your school dress?

How do the girls at your school dress?

One word...whore.

One word...whore.

-Do you agree? Same way? -Yeah.

What do the other people at your school think of you?

What do the other people at your school think of you?

They hate us, but we're really nice. We're nice to everyone.

They hate us, but we're really nice. We're nice to everyone.

Why do they hate you?

Because they hate the message.

Because they hate the message.

Because we tell them they're going to hell. We tell them plainly,

that you can't live the way you're living and expect to go to Heaven when you die.

that you can't live the way you're living and expect to go to Heaven when you die.

-Shall we do the next room? -Yes.

-Shall we do the next room? -Yes.

So, basically, your circle of friends is mainly

So, basically, your circle of friends is mainly

or exclusively limited to people

or exclusively limited to people

-who are part of this church? -Yeah.

-who are part of this church? -Yeah.

Do you have any friends that are outside this group?

Nobody that we consider a true friend,

Nobody that we consider a true friend,

because friendship with the world is enmity with God.

because friendship with the world is enmity with God.

May I ask if you've had boyfriends, either of you?

-No, we haven't. -No.

-No, we haven't. -No.

Why not?

Because that's not what we're about in this life.

We're not about serving ourselves.

We're not about serving ourselves.

It's a temptation that's not needed

It's a temptation that's not needed

and it takes up time that we just don't have.

When you come on with a lot of this stuff about the Bible,

When you come on with a lot of this stuff about the Bible,

some people might think that you come off a tiny bit arrogant.

If they're offended by the judgments that we make according to God's standard,

If they're offended by the judgments that we make according to God's standard,

If they're offended by the judgments that we make according to God's standard,

that is a clear indication that they hate God's word, obviously,

that is a clear indication that they hate God's word, obviously,

and that they're headed for Hell.

and that they're headed for Hell.

♪ We're marching We're marching

♪ We're marching We're marching

♪ We are marching, Lord

♪ We are marching, Lord

♪ We're marching We're marching

♪ We're marching We're marching

♪ We're marching to Zion, Lord

♪ We're marching to Zion, Lord

♪ We're marching to Zion... ♪

♪ We're marching to Zion... ♪

♪ We're marching to Zion... ♪

THEROUX: The end of my first day at the church

and during a choir practice, I had a moment to reflect.

and during a choir practice, I had a moment to reflect.

♪ We're marching to Zion

♪ The beautiful city of God... ♪

♪ The beautiful city of God... ♪

I felt I had been bombarded with religious rhetoric

I felt I had been bombarded with religious rhetoric

and it was preventing me

from getting to know the church members as people.

from getting to know the church members as people.

With the girls especially,

With the girls especially,

I sensed there was another side to their story

I sensed there was another side to their story

and I was curious to know more.

♪ Beautiful

♪ Beautiful

♪ Beautiful city

♪ Beautiful city

♪ The beautiful city

♪ The beautiful city

♪ Of God! ♪

♪ Of God! ♪

♪ Of God! ♪

THEROUX: The next day, and I was on my way to see Jael Phelps,

niece to Shirley, cousin to Megan and Bekah,

niece to Shirley, cousin to Megan and Bekah,

and in her day job, a nurse in training.

and in her day job, a nurse in training.

It would be a chance to meet another of the younger women

It would be a chance to meet another of the younger women

and to ask about some of the family members who are no longer in the church,

and to ask about some of the family members who are no longer in the church,

having run off or been excluded.

having run off or been excluded.

-Hi. -How are you doing?

-Hi. -How are you doing?

-Good. -Can we come in?

Can you show us around a little bit?

Can you show us around a little bit?

This is the computer study area.

This is a picture of all the girls in the church

This is a picture of all the girls in the church

-when they were younger. -Let's see that.

-when they were younger. -Let's see that.

-Who's that? -That's Cathy.

-She's gone now? -Yes.

-She's gone now? -Yes.

-And who's that? -This is Betty.

This is Fred Junior's wife.

This is Fred Junior's wife.

This is my Aunt Liz.

This is Dot.

This is Dot.

-She's gone? -Right.

This is Becky. That's my grandma.

This is Becky. That's my grandma.

This is her daughter Sharon who has also gone.

This is her daughter Sharon who has also gone.

Is everyone else gonna stay, do you think?

Is everyone else gonna stay, do you think?

-Everybody else? -Yeah.

-Yeah. -As far as we know.

-Yeah. -As far as we know.

I think so.

-Are you gonna stay? -I'm gonna stay. Yes.

-Are you gonna stay? -I'm gonna stay. Yes.

-Do you like it? -I love it.

-Do you? -Yes, I really do.

-Do you? -Yes, I really do.

As far as you're concerned,

those people that have gone away,

those people that have gone away,

-they're going to Hell? -Yeah.

What if you don't believe in the Bible?

What if you don't believe in the Bible?

Then you're going to Hell.

So I'm going to Hell?

Yes, Louis, you are. You're going to Hell.

Yes, Louis, you are. You're going to Hell.

You are.

You are.

Anyways, this is my room.

Ta-da!

There's pictures everywhere.

There's pictures everywhere.

What is this one?

-You like it? -Yeah.

-You like it? -Yeah.

It's the wrath of God as revealed from Heaven. It's awesome.

Do you think that's what it might look like

when the Scripture is fulfilled?

when the Scripture is fulfilled?

That kind of thing, and other, similar things, natural disasters,

That kind of thing, and other, similar things, natural disasters,

it's gonna get more and worse, and it's gonna be so awesome.

Has there ever been a time when you felt, um, tempted?

Has there ever been a time when you felt, um, tempted?

I don't want to talk about that.

I don't think it's appropriate.

I don't think it's appropriate.

I'm not gonna dwell on anything inappropriate if I can possibly help it.

I'm not gonna dwell on anything inappropriate if I can possibly help it.

I'll take that as a yes.

I'm not gonna answer that question!

I'm not gonna answer that question!

We're going to seek

We're going to seek

that which is good and abhor that which is evil.

that which is good and abhor that which is evil.

That's why we're not gonna dwell

and tell you about every single sin we ever did in our life.

and tell you about every single sin we ever did in our life.

It's not sinful to get married, is it?

It's not sinful to get married, is it?

And if you wanted to do that, then, how do you do that?

Well, first of all, I don't think that's ever gonna happen.

Well, first of all, I don't think that's ever gonna happen.

-Why wouldn't that happen? -Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?

-Why wouldn't that happen? -Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?

Because I'm Jael Phelps and I serve God, that's why.

Because I'm Jael Phelps and I serve God, that's why.

That's why.

And I'm not gonna go seeking after that

And I'm not gonna go seeking after that

because it's foolishness.

because it's foolishness.

Your father Jonathan, he got married.

Your grandfather, Gramps, he got married.

Your grandfather, Gramps, he got married.

Shirley got married.

Shirley got married.

Why should you be any different?

Well, Louis, we're living in the last of the last days.

Well, Louis, we're living in the last of the last days.

Time is very short.

Time is very short.

Times are very different than what they were 15 years ago.

THEROUX: There could be someone...

THEROUX: There could be someone...

There could, but I'm not gonna plan it,

and I'm not gonna seek after it and I'm not gonna dwell on it.

and I'm not gonna seek after it and I'm not gonna dwell on it.

and I'm not gonna seek after it and I'm not gonna dwell on it.

That's not my interest. It's not my focus.

That's not my interest. It's not my focus.

I'm a dumb young girl,

I'm a dumb young girl,

but I'm not that dumb and goofy to go...

This is so silly.

This is so silly.

I don't wanna talk about it any more.

I don't wanna talk about it any more.

Okay?

So I don't wanna go there.

So I don't wanna go there.

THEROUX: That afternoon, I had an appointment to see Steve Drain.

THEROUX: That afternoon, I had an appointment to see Steve Drain.

He was unusual in not having been born into the group.

He was unusual in not having been born into the group.

-Hey! -Hey, how's it going?

-Hey! -Hey, how's it going?

-Are you Steve? -I am.

-How are you doing? -I'm doing good.

-How are you doing? -I'm doing good.

-I'm Louis. -Hi, Louis.

THEROUX: As part of his service to the church, Steve handles online media

THEROUX: As part of his service to the church, Steve handles online media

and is an all-round helper to the man he now calls Gramps.

and is an all-round helper to the man he now calls Gramps.

What would you like to show me?

You wanna see how we make signs?

You wanna see how we make signs?

-The famous signs. -"God hates fags."

-The famous signs. -"God hates fags."

THEROUX: But in his old life,

I'd heard he and I had something in common.

I'd heard he and I had something in common.

Is it true that you first came here

Is it true that you first came here

-as a documentary film-maker? -Yes.

So you brought your family here all the way from Florida?

So you brought your family here all the way from Florida?

-Mmm-hmm. -Are you glad you did that?

-Mmm-hmm. -Are you glad you did that?

Absolutely.

It's the only thing that at the end of the day I can say I'm really glad that I did.

It's the only thing that at the end of the day I can say I'm really glad that I did.

-Really? -Mmm-hmm.

Is Gramps a disciple of God?

Is Gramps a disciple of God?

Anybody who has a sincere message, an ambassador from God,

Anybody who has a sincere message, an ambassador from God,

preaching a sincere message of God, is a prophet,

preaching a sincere message of God, is a prophet,

and Gramps is a prophet, as are all of these other people around about here.

THEROUX: So these are some of the ones... These are ones...

THEROUX: So these are some of the ones... These are ones...

Some of these are kind of random, aren't they?

Some of these are kind of random, aren't they?

-They're not random. -This one...

Liz Taylor?

Course she's a fag lover. Course she is!

Desmond Tutu? How do you choose...

Desmond Tutu? How do you choose...

He can't help but lie about the Scripture every time he opens his mouth!

He can't help but lie about the Scripture every time he opens his mouth!

How do you choose who you're gonna make signs about?

How do you choose who you're gonna make signs about?

There's no logic here.

Actually, there's plenty of logic.

Actually, there's plenty of logic.

Anybody in the news who supports the filthy fag agenda,

Anybody in the news who supports the filthy fag agenda,

we'll make a sign about.

Did you feel this way about homosexuality

Did you feel this way about homosexuality

-before you came here? -No. Of course not.

-before you came here? -No. Of course not.

-What was your feeling... -I was the smartest man in the world.

I embraced the philosophy of libertarianism.

I embraced the philosophy of libertarianism.

I was a genius.

-It was okay to be gay? -I was a genius.

-It was okay to be gay? -I was a genius.

What is this? Look at this.

What is this? Look at this.

-That's a little offensive. -To who?

People in Britain consider her an icon.

People in Britain consider her an icon.

She split Hell wide open when she died.

She split Hell wide open when she died.

She's a fag enabler.

Princess Diana?

Princess Diana?

She'll be in Hell for all of eternity. You know why?

Are we talking about Princess Diana? I can't believe my ears.

Are we talking about Princess Diana? I can't believe my ears.

Oh, my goodness gracious!

THEROUX: In addition to the funeral pickets,

THEROUX: In addition to the funeral pickets,

the church also does a multitude of local pickets

the church also does a multitude of local pickets

of churches and other targets chosen by the pastor.

So where are we actually going to now?

So where are we actually going to now?

We're going to a picket here at the Jew Church.

We're going to a picket here at the Jew Church.

The...

-What did you say? -The Jew Church.

-What did you say? -The Jew Church.

That sounds a little anti-Semitic when you say "the Jew Church."

These people hate God and worship the rectum.

These people hate God and worship the rectum.

-The rectum? -Yeah, the rectum.

-The rectum? -Yeah, the rectum.

That sounds insane when you say that.

-It does? -Yeah.

-It does? -Yeah.

They worship that which they desire, that makes them feel good.

It's an expression of the flesh.

-It's a metaphor? -Of course it is.

-It's a metaphor? -Of course it is.

Idolatry, fornication, all manner of sexual perversions

Idolatry, fornication, all manner of sexual perversions

go hand in hand, Louis. They all go hand in hand.

We're talking about callous defiance against God Almighty.

We're talking about callous defiance against God Almighty.

The Jews killed Christ.

The Jews killed Christ.

You're gonna try to say they worship the same God as I worship?

You're gonna try to say they worship the same God as I worship?

-They killed Christ. -News flash, Brainiac, Christ was Jewish.

-They killed Christ. -News flash, Brainiac, Christ was Jewish.

What I'm trying to tell you, Brainiac, is Christ was God.

What I'm trying to tell you, Brainiac, is Christ was God.

They were living in a Jewish area,

so of course the Jewish people were involved, but a lot of them weren't involved.

so of course the Jewish people were involved, but a lot of them weren't involved.

Involved? What do you mean, involved? They called for his crucifixion.

Involved? What do you mean, involved? They called for his crucifixion.

The Romans did it, not the Jews.

The Crucifixion. The Jews did it.

The Crucifixion. The Jews did it.

They live in callous defiance of the Scripture,

They live in callous defiance of the Scripture,

and I gotta warn 'em about it, Louis. That's my unction.

"Cry aloud. Spare not. Lift up thy voice like a trumpet

"Cry aloud. Spare not. Lift up thy voice like a trumpet

"and show my people their transgressions."

"and show my people their transgressions."

You see these wonderful signs,

God Hates Fags, Temple Beth Sodom,

God Hates Fags, Temple Beth Sodom,

Jew Fags, God Is USA's Terrorist, God Hates America?

Jew Fags, God Is USA's Terrorist, God Hates America?

These are wonderful signs. Fag Troops?

♪ America

♪ America

♪ America

♪ God showed his wrath to me

♪ God showed his wrath to me

♪ He cursed this land

♪ He cursed this land

♪ With His own hand

♪ With His own hand

♪ And showed His sovereignty... ♪

♪ And showed His sovereignty... ♪

THEROUX: That evening, Steve had invited me to drop in

THEROUX: That evening, Steve had invited me to drop in

on a special taping of one of the church's online sermons.

Everything okay, Steve?

Everything okay, Steve?

Hinting that there might be an opportunity

Hinting that there might be an opportunity

to have my first face-to-face with Pastor Phelps.

to have my first face-to-face with Pastor Phelps.

Everything okay up there?

Yeah, everything's fine. Yeah, we just wanted to make sure

Yeah, everything's fine. Yeah, we just wanted to make sure

that we got our technical difficulties straightened from yesterday.

-Everything cool? -Yeah.

-Everything cool? -Yeah.

Steve, Steve, Steve...

-Steve! -Come on.

-Steve! -Come on.

Where have you gone? Hello?

Where have you gone? Hello?

-Where are you? -Right here.

-All right... -What is going on?

-All right... -What is going on?

Yeah, yeah...

-Why don't you go ahead and... -Hi, guys.

How do you do? I'm Louis.

How do you do? I'm Louis.

-Hi, Louis. -From the BBC.

-Hi, Louis. -From the BBC.

-Yes. -You must be Pastor Fred Phelps.

-Very pleased to meet you. -Yes. Glad to see you, Louis.

-Very pleased to meet you. -Yes. Glad to see you, Louis.

-What is happening? -Pay close attention.

Billy Graham, Hell-bound false prophet.

Billy Graham, Hell-bound false prophet.

I've known Billy Graham more than 50 years

I've known Billy Graham more than 50 years

and, Billy, you are headed

straight and irreversibly for Hell.

straight and irreversibly for Hell.

You are a lying, money-grubbing,

You are a lying, money-grubbing,

Arminian heretic.

At 88, Graham will soon die and split Hell wide open.

At 88, Graham will soon die and split Hell wide open.

At 88, Graham will soon die and split Hell wide open.

And Westboro Baptist Church will picket your funeral.

And Westboro Baptist Church will picket your funeral.

Amen.

Amen.

Thanks, Gramps. That was awesome.

Okay, guys. What do you want?

You are basically the pastor of the church

You are basically the pastor of the church

and the paterfamilias of the whole group.

and the paterfamilias of the whole group.

Didn't you see that newspaper story

Didn't you see that newspaper story

down at the bottom of the stairs?

No. Steve was gonna give us a little tour downstairs,

No. Steve was gonna give us a little tour downstairs,

and then he was in such a rush. What was that all about?

and then he was in such a rush. What was that all about?

We've got a schedule to keep. You're here to shoot us, we're not here to cater to you.

We've got a schedule to keep. You're here to shoot us, we're not here to cater to you.

We've got a schedule to keep.

This is a pretty big family here. How many children do you have?

This is a pretty big family here. How many children do you have?

Don't bother me with that kind of silly question.

Don't bother me with that kind of silly question.

Get to some stuff that I'm the only one that can answer.

Then we'll have a good interview here.

Then we'll have a good interview here.

In fact, were we supposed to have an interview?

In fact, were we supposed to have an interview?

Usurping oxygen!

-Can we have an interview? -Not now.

-Not now? -No, not now.

-Not now? -No, not now.

You were saying... How many children you have?

You were saying... How many children you have?

STEVE: Hey, guys, let's go on downstairs.

STEVE: Hey, guys, let's go on downstairs.

He already answered that question.

Everybody in the civilized world knows how many children I've got,

Everybody in the civilized world knows how many children I've got,

and how many grandchildren and how many great-grandchildren.

-Is he stalling for time? -Shall we go downstairs?

-Is he stalling for time? -Shall we go downstairs?

-Thank you for having us. -Sure. Glad to see you guys.

-Thank you for having us. -Sure. Glad to see you guys.

There's the article he was talking about, Time magazine.

There's the article he was talking about, Time magazine.

-Did that go okay? -Yeah, it went great.

What was the big deal about asking how many children?

What was the big deal about asking how many children?

He would've had more time for you right there

if you had some kind of sincere and relevant theological question.

if you had some kind of sincere and relevant theological question.

That was a sincere question. You can't fault me on that.

That was a sincere question. You can't fault me on that.

I sincerely was curious to know his answer

I sincerely was curious to know his answer

to the question, "How many children do you have?"

You already knew how many children he had.

I wanted to know how many he would say that he had.

I wanted to know how many he would say that he had.

Because I know that he had 13, but four have fallen away.

Because I know that he had 13, but four have fallen away.

You know he has 13 and that four have fallen away.

You know he has 13 and that four have fallen away.

There's your answer.

There's your answer.

But I wanted to hear what he had to say about it.

He told you what he had to say on it.

You want us to say it a certain way?

You want us to say it a certain way?

No, I just wanted to know how many he would say...

No, I just wanted to know how many he would say...

You have the guy who has by far, head and shoulders,

You have the guy who has by far, head and shoulders,

more scriptural knowledge, knowledge of the Bible,

more scriptural knowledge, knowledge of the Bible,

knowledge of the moral realm

of anybody who is crawling all over this Earth like ants on a banana

of anybody who is crawling all over this Earth like ants on a banana

and you ask him some silly, dull question like that?

and you ask him some silly, dull question like that?

How many children do you have?

Man, you're wasting your opportunity, dude. That's all I got to say.

Man, you're wasting your opportunity, dude. That's all I got to say.

THEROUX: The next day, and I joined Shirley

THEROUX: The next day, and I joined Shirley

as she did her afternoon school run.

-Where are we going, Shirley? -We're going over here to pick up the children.

-Where are we going, Shirley? -We're going over here to pick up the children.

THEROUX: By now, I had sensed how impregnable the beliefs of the church members are,

THEROUX: By now, I had sensed how impregnable the beliefs of the church members are,

and I wanted to understand how that faith is instilled in the children of the family.

and I wanted to understand how that faith is instilled in the children of the family.

They go to normal schools?

I'm surprised they're not home-schooled, in a way.

I'm surprised they're not home-schooled, in a way.

There's two reasons that we can't do that.

The first one is I couldn't do the job justice.

The first one is I couldn't do the job justice.

And the second is, because these children need to be in the faces of this community,

And the second is, because these children need to be in the faces of this community,

because that is part of our testimony.

because that is part of our testimony.

Do they preach at school at all?

Do they preach at school at all?

No. Only their presence.

Only like they're walking picket signs.

Only like they're walking picket signs.

They see these kids and they think,

"God hates fags" or "America is doomed" or anything like that.

"God hates fags" or "America is doomed" or anything like that.

Do they have friends at the schools?

Do they have friends at the schools?

They have friendly acquaintances.

They have friendly acquaintances.

I don't know if you'd call them friends.

I don't know what really constitutes a friend.

I don't know what really constitutes a friend.

They can bring them home?

You think these kids are gonna want to come to our house?

You think these kids are gonna want to come to our house?

It's very nice. Yeah.

Where would that go?

Where would that go?

Pretty quick you're gonna get into the discussions.

Pretty quick you're gonna get into the discussions.

But, on the other hand, that's how I met my husband.

But, on the other hand, that's how I met my husband.

He hung out with my brother.

Sounds like you haven't made up your own mind.

Sounds like you haven't made up your own mind.

I'm saying that when they turn up, when they come around, they're welcome.

I'm saying that when they turn up, when they come around, they're welcome.

I'm saying that when they turn up, when they come around, they're welcome.

Could they bring girlfriends or boyfriends home?

I will not have my kids calling themselves dating anyone

I will not have my kids calling themselves dating anyone

or doing activities that would remotely resemble

or doing activities that would remotely resemble

what this generation calls dating.

what this generation calls dating.

To what end would they do that?

What would be the purpose? So they can fornicate?

-Fun. -Fun?

-Fun. -Fun?

Does that equal fornicating?

Does that equal fornicating?

-Not necessarily. -Well, what does it equal?

-Not necessarily. -Well, what does it equal?

Having fun, holding hands.

Holding hands? No!

Holding hands? No!

Sending little notes to each other?

Sending little notes to each other?

-Just what? -How are you doing, Gabriel?

So you can teach 'em how to fornicate later?

So you can teach 'em how to fornicate later?

So they can learn early?

You've got fornication on the brain!

You've got fornication on the brain!

I know, hon. That's because that's what this generation is all about. Fornicating.

I know, hon. That's because that's what this generation is all about. Fornicating.

THEROUX: One of the pickets that afternoon

was outside a hardware store that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners.

was outside a hardware store that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners.

Apparently, Swedish authorities imprisoned a local pastor

for preaching against homosexuality,

for preaching against homosexuality,

which was enough to make the whole nation a target.

which was enough to make the whole nation a target.

I'd seen some of the youngest members of the clan holding placards,

I'd seen some of the youngest members of the clan holding placards,

and I wondered how much of the message they actually understood.

and I wondered how much of the message they actually understood.

How old are you, Shirley?

How old are you, Shirley?

-Seven. -Seven.

Do you know what the sign means?

Do you know what the sign means?

No.

No.

No?

Shirley, she doesn't know what it means.

Shirley, she doesn't know what it means.

Fags, troops,

Fags, troops,

flags, symbols,

they're all idols that this nation worships above God.

they're all idols that this nation worships above God.

they're all idols that this nation worships above God.

Does that help you at all or have I said a lot of words that were too big?

Does that help you at all or have I said a lot of words that were too big?

Maybe she's just out here making up numbers,

because she doesn't really get it.

because she doesn't really get it.

Noah, do you know what fag troops are?

Noah, do you know what fag troops are?

-Yeah. -What?

It's this nation.

It's this nation.

All these fags. It's a nation of fags.

That's what fag troops means.

That's what fag troops means.

It is a nation of fags, that's right.

It is a nation of fags, that's right.

Wait. You're not gonna let him get away with that?

-No, I'm not gonna... -Fag soldiers!

-No, I'm not gonna... -Fag soldiers!

Okay, fag soldiers.

I'm sort of glad that they don't understand it better.

I'm sort of glad that they don't understand it better.

Noah, do you know what else you could be, besides a fag,

Noah, do you know what else you could be, besides a fag,

to be in trouble with God and be included in that sign?

If you're not just a fag, but what else?

If you're not just a fag, but what else?

Swedish?

Erm...

Swedish and...

Swedish and...

And, erm, soldiers and...

And, erm, soldiers and...

But if you're not a practicing fag, what are you?

But if you're not a practicing fag, what are you?

What if you support fags? What does that make you?

What if you support fags? What does that make you?

You're a dyke?

You could say what you're really doing is you're grooming him into the weird behavior

You could say what you're really doing is you're grooming him into the weird behavior

You could say what you're really doing is you're grooming him into the weird behavior

that is characteristic of your group.

I mean, if you want to explain your moral outlook to him, you could do that in a classroom.

I mean, if you want to explain your moral outlook to him, you could do that in a classroom.

Are you calling our service to our God weird behavior? Is that what you just did?

Are you calling our service to our God weird behavior? Is that what you just did?

-Yes. -You don't get to call our service to God weird

-Yes. -You don't get to call our service to God weird

and thereby make it so.

and thereby make it so.

Your statement doesn't make it right, doesn't make it a fact.

Your statement doesn't make it right, doesn't make it a fact.

-The world calls it weird. -I don't care... Well, yes.

-The world calls it weird. -I don't care... Well, yes.

And the world hates us. Hello?

And the world hates us. Hello?

THEROUX: The next morning I was with Megan.

Phelps family members are expected to hold down mainstream jobs

Phelps family members are expected to hold down mainstream jobs

and give 10% of their income to the church.

and give 10% of their income to the church.

Many work as lawyers, and Megan was hoping to follow in that tradition.

Many work as lawyers, and Megan was hoping to follow in that tradition.

-So where are we going? -We are going to Washburn.

-So where are we going? -We are going to Washburn.

-That's the university you go to. -Yes. Yes, it is.

-That's the university you go to. -Yes. Yes, it is.

It's lovely.

It's lovely.

-Good stuff. -Totally.

Do you want to be a lawyer as well, then?

Do you want to be a lawyer as well, then?

-Yes, I do. -Like so many of your aunts and uncles.

Yeah. I'm the only one in my generation that wants to be a lawyer.

Yeah. I'm the only one in my generation that wants to be a lawyer.

Yeah. I'm the only one in my generation that wants to be a lawyer.

THEROUX: By now the church members had learned a little about my life,

THEROUX: By now the church members had learned a little about my life,

and they knew that I'd had a child with my partner out of wedlock,

and they knew that I'd had a child with my partner out of wedlock,

a detail which seemed to put me in the firing line.

a detail which seemed to put me in the firing line.

Do you like going to the pickets?

Yeah. Are you kidding?

It must get kind of old, though.

You don't get tired of pursuing your sins and your lust.

You don't get tired of pursuing your sins and your lust.

-Do I? -I say you don't.

-Don't I? -Because you keep doing it!

-Don't I? -Because you keep doing it!

-Are you talking about me, specifically? -You, or anybody else.

-Are you talking about me, specifically? -You, or anybody else.

You don't get tired of serving your lust, I don't get tired of serving my God.

You don't get tired of serving your lust, I don't get tired of serving my God.

So should I be killed for having extra-marital intercourse?

So should I be killed for having extra-marital intercourse?

-According to the Mosaic Code? -Yeah.

-According to the Mosaic Code? -Yeah.

Uh, actually, I'm not sure. I think so.

-I know adultery is. -Wow.

-I know adultery is. -Wow.

And homosexuality was.

You want to see me killed for that.

You want to see me killed for that.

I want to tell you the truth.

I want to tell you the truth.

This is interesting. This is actually where you go to college, isn't it?

Yes.

Yes.

-You have no friends here? -No.

I have acquaintances. People I go to school with. They're not my friends.

I have acquaintances. People I go to school with. They're not my friends.

Do you have any acquaintances that you like?

Do you have any acquaintances that you like?

On a humanistic level? That are friendly? Yeah.

On a humanistic level? That are friendly? Yeah.

-Any guys? -Yes.

What do you want me to say?

What do you want me to say?

If you saw a guy in one of your classes

If you saw a guy in one of your classes

and you thought he seemed nice and had potential or whatever,

and you thought he seemed nice and had potential or whatever,

and he said, "Do you want to get a coffee?" what would you do?

and he said, "Do you want to get a coffee?" what would you do?

Actually, that has happened before, and I said, "No, I'm sorry. I'm busy."

Actually, that has happened before, and I said, "No, I'm sorry. I'm busy."

-Why? -Because, I have other things to do.

-What was his name? -I don't even remember.

-What was his name? -I don't even remember.

-You do. -Yeah, he was...

-You do. -Yeah, he was...

What? Robert.

-Robert? -Robert. I think.

-Robert? -Robert. I think.

-Is that someone you know? -No.

-Is that someone you know? -No.

He looks like the guy that asked me out.

-It's kind of gooey, isn't it? -It's kind of gooey.

-It's kind of gooey, isn't it? -It's kind of gooey.

But I know young women sometimes think about these things.

But I know young women sometimes think about these things.

Most women also have...

Most women also have...

A whole lot of lust and fornication

A whole lot of lust and fornication

and do a whole lot of things that we don't do.

and do a whole lot of things that we don't do.

Why do you have to put it like that? Why can't you say "make love"?

Why do you have to put it like that? Why can't you say "make love"?

Beause you're trying to make it seem like something that it isn't.

That's not what these people do. That's not what you're doing.

That's not what these people do. That's not what you're doing.

-How do you mean? -'Cause you're not married.

-How do you mean? -'Cause you're not married.

Get married, see?

Get married, see?

You seriously wouldn't mind if you never got married

You seriously wouldn't mind if you never got married

and you never experienced everything that represents?

No.

-It wouldn't bother you. -No.

-On a human level it would. -You think so?

-On a human level it would. -You think so?

It shakes it up a bit when there's more than one!

THEROUX: And so my days at the church wore on.

THEROUX: And so my days at the church wore on.

As the time passed, I could feel myself being absorbed into the family.

As the time passed, I could feel myself being absorbed into the family.

-Ah! -Sorry!

-Ah! -Sorry!

As hateful as they could be at the pickets, among themselves the church members

As hateful as they could be at the pickets, among themselves the church members

had made a life that in many ways was quite appealing,

had made a life that in many ways was quite appealing,

almost as though their bond with each other

almost as though their bond with each other

had been strengthened by the hostility of the outside world.

had been strengthened by the hostility of the outside world.

With the girls, I began to see a more human side to their personalities.

With the girls, I began to see a more human side to their personalities.

Go see Fred!

What did you say?

What did you say?

I said, "Are you kidding me? Who's going to marry us?"

I said, "Are you kidding me? Who's going to marry us?"

And it was easy to become desensitized to their message

And it was easy to become desensitized to their message

and how provocative it really is.

and how provocative it really is.

(TIRES SQUEAL)

(TIRES SQUEAL)

See, they covered their license plate.

See, they covered their license plate.

I don't know what they were up to. Uh-oh. Did they hit somebody?

I don't know what they were up to. Uh-oh. Did they hit somebody?

Is he okay?

Is he okay?

Is he okay?

I'm sorry, hon.

I'm sorry, hon.

They had the license plate down.

You all right, honey?

You all right, honey?

-Hey, bud. -You got it all over you.

-Hey, bud. -You got it all over you.

Hey, bud, I'm sorry, hon.

I knew they had to have done something.

I knew they had to have done something.

I am so sorry.

I am so sorry.

You want to go talk to your daddy? I'm sorry.

Hey, hey, you want your sign?

Let me wipe that off of you, real quick, okay?

Let me wipe that off of you, real quick, okay?

I'm sorry. Megan, can you...

I'm sorry. Megan, can you...

They are such cowards. Who would hit a child?

They are such cowards. Who would hit a child?

Who would do that?

It looks like here, Tim.

-I know... -See that?

-I know... -See that?

His eyes.

Do you see that color?

Do you see that color?

That's what was in that cup.

So it obviously got around on him.

So it obviously got around on him.

Seeing seven-year-old Elisha get hit by a drink

Seeing seven-year-old Elisha get hit by a drink

was a reminder that among the victims of the Phelps

was a reminder that among the victims of the Phelps

were their own children.

THEROUX: It was Sunday, and I'd been invited along to a church service.

It would be another chance to meet the pastor

It would be another chance to meet the pastor

and maybe have an interview.

and maybe have an interview.

Are the bags over there?

But first I had an appointment with Jael

to help out with the chores around the homestead.

to help out with the chores around the homestead.

Do you see much of Gramps?

Do you see much of Gramps?

I spend time with him every Monday and Tuesday.

'Cause I haven't seen that much of him.

'Cause I haven't seen that much of him.

I think he's gotten kind of tired of you guys.

I think he's gotten kind of tired of you guys.

-How can he be tired of us? -Especially you.

-How can he be tired of us? -Especially you.

-Why? -And your impertinent questions.

He doesn't have much patience for people

He doesn't have much patience for people

asking a bunch of questions that aren't relevant to the ministry.

asking a bunch of questions that aren't relevant to the ministry.

You know, when we were at your house

You know, when we were at your house

and you said I was going to Hell, you found that funny.

and you said I was going to Hell, you found that funny.

-I did. -Why?

Thinking on those things,

Thinking on those things,

it brings me pleasure to think that the Lord

will vindicate His people,

will vindicate His people,

-He will carry out His wrath because He is perfect. -That made you happy?

-He will carry out His wrath because He is perfect. -That made you happy?

It doesn't make me happy to think of you burning in Hell.

Okay.

Okay.

Does that make me a better person than you?

No.

No.

You know God because He sends the wicked to Hell

You know God because He sends the wicked to Hell

and He saves the righteous.

That's comforting to think on.

That's comforting to think on.

Why couldn't you feel a bit sad that I was going to Hell?

Why couldn't you feel a bit sad that I was going to Hell?

Because it's according to God's will.

So you have to rejoice in all His judgments?

So you have to rejoice in all His judgments?

Exactly. That's a very good point.

If you got run over by a car, would your dad be pleased?

If you got run over by a car, would your dad be pleased?

If I got run over by a car...

If I got run over by a car...

I would be in Hell and my dad would probably be pleased.

I would be in Hell and my dad would probably be pleased.

-Really? -Really.

-Really? -Really.

I'm serious. And we have to move on, so come on.

Jael, that's crazy.

Jael, that's crazy.

In your thinking it's crazy.

It's good. Okay, come on.

It's good. Okay, come on.

(CONGREGATION SINGING)

(CONGREGATION SINGING)

THEROUX: A little later, I joined the rest of the church members

in the family chapel

in the family chapel

for my first experience of one of Gramps' services.

for my first experience of one of Gramps' services.

♪ He will be waiting for me

♪ He will be waiting for me

♪ Jesus so kind and true

♪ Jesus so kind and true

♪ After that day is through ♪

♪ After that day is through ♪

Is it true that if I do something wrong, Gramps could go loco?

Is it true that if I do something wrong, Gramps could go loco?

He won't go loco. He'll just tell you not to do it.

He won't go loco. He'll just tell you not to do it.

Would it be embarrassing for him?

Would it be embarrassing for him?

-No, it would be embarrassing for you. -Why?

There's no experience quite like it.

There's no experience quite like it.

Same-sex marriage,

by any name, civil union or otherwise,

by any name, civil union or otherwise,

by any name, civil union or otherwise,

is the ultimate smash-mouth, in-your-face insult

is the ultimate smash-mouth, in-your-face insult

to God Almighty.

to God Almighty.

And you think He's gonna let England and America

and the rest of this evil world get by with it?

and the rest of this evil world get by with it?

God Almighty has not joined fags in holy wedlock.

God Almighty has not joined fags in holy wedlock.

God no longer keeps America safe. America's doomed.

God no longer keeps America safe. America's doomed.

Getting the pants beat off of us

Getting the pants beat off of us

in Iraq and Afghanistan.

in Iraq and Afghanistan.

God is now America's terrorist.

God is now America's terrorist.

That's who Bush is fighting.

That's who Bush is fighting.

That's the terrorist that he best be afraid of.

That's the terrorist that he best be afraid of.

You tweaked His nose, you jackass!

You tweaked His nose, you jackass!

You tweaked His nose!

You tweaked His nose!

God put it in your wicked heart to start that war!

God put it in your wicked heart to start that war!

That's the message we've got at the funerals of these dead soldiers.

That's the message we've got at the funerals of these dead soldiers.

God duped you

God duped you

into starting a war

so He could punish you.

so He could punish you.

Any preacher preaching in any other way

Any preacher preaching in any other way

is a lying, hell-bound false prophet!

It's almost 18 months now

and this siege has got people eating their babies.

and this siege has got people eating their babies.

And their small children. And each other!

And their small children. And each other!

You're gonna eat your babies!

You're gonna eat your babies!

God Himself duped Bush into a no-win war

and He did that by the technique

and He did that by the technique

of putting a lying spirit in the mouth

of all his trusted advisers.

of all his trusted advisers.

To punish America.

To punish America.

This shows that he's gonna make at least two million.

This shows that he's gonna make at least two million.

"Book sets off capital uproar." At least two million.

"Book sets off capital uproar." At least two million.

Maybe three or four million.

Maybe three or four million.

Pastor, would there be five minutes

Pastor, would there be five minutes

for a couple of questions?

Well, er...

Well, er...

-Yeah, five minutes. Shoot. -Okay.

You know, I was struck by your preaching, you referred mainly to Old Testament,

You know, I was struck by your preaching, you referred mainly to Old Testament,

and it was almost as though you felt we were living in a time of Biblical prophecy.

and it was almost as though you felt we were living in a time of Biblical prophecy.

-Is that accurate? -No, it's not accurate.

-Is that accurate? -No, it's not accurate.

If you had just a little knowledge of the Bible,

If you had just a little knowledge of the Bible,

you'd know that what you just said is stupidity in spades.

you'd know that what you just said is stupidity in spades.

I don't know how to deal with a question like that.

I don't know how to deal with a question like that.

You're just too dumb. Sorry.

You've got the duty to know the Bible as well as I do.

You've got the duty to know the Bible as well as I do.

-Why? -Because you're a human being.

-Why? -Because you're a human being.

God Almighty made ya and God Almighty's gonna send your ass to Hell.

God Almighty made ya and God Almighty's gonna send your ass to Hell.

Is it accurate to say that you regard the Westboro Baptist Church as the only church

Is it accurate to say that you regard the Westboro Baptist Church as the only church

that's preaching according to the word of God?

that's preaching according to the word of God?

Is the three minutes up? The answer to your question is yes.

Is the three minutes up? The answer to your question is yes.

No, it was five minutes.

But I already talked two, didn't I?

But I already talked two, didn't I?

So there's three left?

So there's three left?

Do you believe the Westboro Baptist Church and your preaching is the only preaching

Do you believe the Westboro Baptist Church and your preaching is the only preaching

that according to the word of God?

-Asked and answered. Next question. -Okay.

-Asked and answered. Next question. -Okay.

As far as you're concerned, are the people of this church the only ones now living

As far as you're concerned, are the people of this church the only ones now living

that will make it to the Kingdom of Heaven?

that will make it to the Kingdom of Heaven?

Asked and answered. Next question.

Is there something you'd like me to ask?

Nope. I didn't wanna talk to you. I didn't even wanna let you in.

Nope. I didn't wanna talk to you. I didn't even wanna let you in.

Isn't it an act of presumption, a little bit, on your part,

Isn't it an act of presumption, a little bit, on your part,

that when you don't have all the information about the other churches,

that when you don't have all the information about the other churches,

to assume you have a privileged access to grace?

to assume you have a privileged access to grace?

I know all there is to know about them.

-How? -I'm not gonna keep talking to you.

-How? -I'm not gonna keep talking to you.

Didn't Steve Drain tell you that you'd wasted an opportunity

Didn't Steve Drain tell you that you'd wasted an opportunity

and they're probably gonna fire you?

and they're probably gonna fire you?

-You don't know anything about me, Pastor Phelps. -Yeah, I do.

I know all there is to know about you. You're just an evil...

I know all there is to know about you. You're just an evil...

I don't wanna go there.

I don't wanna go there.

-Okay, this is about 15 minutes! -Okay. Thank you very much for your time.

-Okay, this is about 15 minutes! -Okay. Thank you very much for your time.

Nice to see you. And good luck to you.

Nice to see you. And good luck to you.

Okay, guys.

Did you come to carry some stuff?

Did you come to carry some stuff?

God hates fags! God hates fag enablers!

God hates fags! God hates fag enablers!

Therefore God hates America and all of her military!

Therefore God hates America and all of her military!

The abominable, disgraceful, filthy conduct

The abominable, disgraceful, filthy conduct

that you think up to engage in,

you do it and you're proud of it.

you do it and you're proud of it.

Quit worshipping the flag, dummy! It can't help you.

Quit worshipping the flag, dummy! It can't help you.

I'd sensed a deep wellspring of anger in Gramps

and I suspected that this was the basis for his church's ministry.

and I suspected that this was the basis for his church's ministry.

His skewed interpretation of the Bible

had been handed on to his children

had been handed on to his children

and was now being broadcast to the world.

The Phelps' had no interest in winning souls to Christ.

The Phelps' had no interest in winning souls to Christ.

In their world, being hated was proof that they were doing the right thing.

In their world, being hated was proof that they were doing the right thing.

As part of their ever-expanding effort to reach into every corner of America,

As part of their ever-expanding effort to reach into every corner of America,

the church had decided to picket a soldier's funeral

several hundred miles away on the outskirts of Chicago in Skokie, Illinois.

several hundred miles away on the outskirts of Chicago in Skokie, Illinois.

several hundred miles away on the outskirts of Chicago in Skokie, Illinois.

For one last time, I joined them.

For one last time, I joined them.

So, erm, you're flying all the way to Illinois...

So, erm, you're flying all the way to Illinois...

Yes.

Yes.

...however many there are of you,

just to picket this dead soldier's funeral...

just to picket this dead soldier's funeral...

-That's right. -...for 45 minutes?

-Yep. -Is it really worth it?

-Yep. -Is it really worth it?

Yeah!

Look, hun, they'll get the message.

Look, hun, they'll get the message.

You've seen what it's created all around this nation.

Good morning.

I'm gonna sit in the second row unless somebody else is already there.

I'm gonna sit in the second row unless somebody else is already there.

Where am I supposed to sit?

Where am I supposed to sit?

How much would you say the church spends in an average year on flights?

How much would you say the church spends in an average year on flights?

How much would you say the church spends in an average year on flights?

-A lot. -How much?

-It's in the 200,000 range. -Really?

-It's in the 200,000 range. -Really?

$200,000. So, that's more than maybe £100,000.

$200,000. So, that's more than maybe £100,000.

-Yeah, I don't know the ratio. -Just to go and spread hate?

-Yeah, I don't know the ratio. -Just to go and spread hate?

No, to go and preach the gospel.

No, to go and preach the gospel.

Hate. God's hate. I didn't say your hate.

It's very scriptural, what I said.

It's very scriptural, what I said.

Well, actually, that's true.

"His unit was supposed to end its service in Iraq in August,

"but one day before Foyteck was scheduled to leave,

"but one day before Foyteck was scheduled to leave,

"he got news that it would be sent to Baghdad.

"he got news that it would be sent to Baghdad.

"He told his family he'd be home in November instead

"He told his family he'd be home in November instead

"and last week, his mother mailed him his cell phone

"and last week, his mother mailed him his cell phone

"so he would be able to call.

"Foyteck, 26, died two days before Halloween,

"Foyteck, 26, died two days before Halloween,

"shot in the neck by insurgents during a raid

"shot in the neck by insurgents during a raid

"on a house near Baghdad.

"In addition to his mother, Foyteck is survived by his father, Rik Gutzke,

"In addition to his mother, Foyteck is survived by his father, Rik Gutzke,

"In addition to his mother, Foyteck is survived by his father, Rik Gutzke,

"a brother Christopher and grandparents."

Doesn't that make you sad, though?

Doesn't that make you sad, though?

It's very sad that these people won't get the message.

It's very sad that these people won't get the message.

All they have to do is obey their God

All they have to do is obey their God

and they'll stop the pain, but they're not going to.

and they'll stop the pain, but they're not going to.

-But that's abstract... -It's not abstract! It's so concrete.

-But that's abstract... -It's not abstract! It's so concrete.

We don't know anything more than this article tells us about Kraig Foyteck.

We don't know anything more than this article tells us about Kraig Foyteck.

No, we know two things.

Because he's been killed, therefore he was doing something sinful.

Because he's been killed, therefore he was doing something sinful.

I know that he was fighting for a nation that has made God their enemy.

I know that he was fighting for a nation that has made God their enemy.

THEROUX: But you don't think there's any good people out there in the military?

THEROUX: But you don't think there's any good people out there in the military?

This is all very plain and simple, and you are not gonna make me feel bad about this,

This is all very plain and simple, and you are not gonna make me feel bad about this,

This is all very plain and simple, and you are not gonna make me feel bad about this,

because I did not do that. I'm doing this, though, to help them.

Is there any danger of you feeling bad about it?

Is there any danger?

Is there any danger?

Yeah, you say that almost as though I might have got through to you.

Yeah, you say that almost as though I might have got through to you.

No, you didn't get through to me.

But you keep grinding away.

But you keep grinding away.

You view things through what you see

and those things, the scripture says, are temporal.

and those things, the scripture says, are temporal.

They are gonna fade away.

If God is infinitely wise and powerful and omniscient,

If God is infinitely wise and powerful and omniscient,

then He could bring a soldier up to Heaven if He felt like it.

then He could bring a soldier up to Heaven if He felt like it.

Listen to you! This nation thinks they are all-powerful, all mighty

Listen to you! This nation thinks they are all-powerful, all mighty

Listen to you! This nation thinks they are all-powerful, all mighty

and those young men and women fighting for this country...

But you think that about your church, too, don't you?

But you think that about your church, too, don't you?

You're right. We do have power and the power comes from our God.

You're right. We do have power and the power comes from our God.

We have all the power. And you stay tuned, because shortly you're gonna see Him

We have all the power. And you stay tuned, because shortly you're gonna see Him

coming through the clouds and executing judgment on these people.

coming through the clouds and executing judgment on these people.

Isn't it possible that the funeral is for a good man,

Isn't it possible that the funeral is for a good man,

a righteous and a nice person,

a righteous and a nice person,

who doesn't deserve to have his funeral picketed?

who doesn't deserve to have his funeral picketed?

Not a chance, poopy pants.

Not a chance, poopy pants.

All right.

I'll speak with him.

I'll speak with him.

♪ Oh, wicked land of sodomites... ♪

♪ Oh, wicked land of sodomites... ♪

THEROUX: At the funeral, I decided to break away from the picket

THEROUX: At the funeral, I decided to break away from the picket

and go inside the memorial home

to see the mourners first-hand.

to see the mourners first-hand.

He was doing what he wanted to do.

He was doing what he wanted to do.

I have to honor that, as much as I'm gonna miss him

I have to honor that, as much as I'm gonna miss him

and I don't think it's fair.

and I don't think it's fair.

But he was doing what he believes and what he wanted.

But he was doing what he believes and what he wanted.

Kraig wanted to go in the army when he first got out of high school,

Kraig wanted to go in the army when he first got out of high school,

so he did what he wanted to do. He did.

so he did what he wanted to do. He did.

We just have to carry on his memory and his honor

We just have to carry on his memory and his honor

through other soldiers and help other families.

(BELL TOLLS)

(BELL TOLLS)

Seeing the mourners up close brought home the reality of the grief,

Seeing the mourners up close brought home the reality of the grief,

but I realized I'd got as far as I could with Shirley.

but I realized I'd got as far as I could with Shirley.

Quit sowing to the flesh, Louis, it's taking you to Hell.

Quit sowing to the flesh, Louis, it's taking you to Hell.

Try as I might, nothing I said made any impact on her beliefs.

Try as I might, nothing I said made any impact on her beliefs.

Back in Topeka, and while we've been away a local Episcopalian church

Back in Topeka, and while we've been away a local Episcopalian church

and regular target of pickets had caught fire.

and regular target of pickets had caught fire.

For the Phelps it was another sign of God's judgment

For the Phelps it was another sign of God's judgment

and a reason to rejoice.

and a reason to rejoice.

You want to get a sign, Louis?

You want to get a sign, Louis?

For me to hold? I don't think I can do that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was nearing the end of my time in the group.

Though I'd made no headway with Shirley,

Though I'd made no headway with Shirley,

I wondered if I'd fare better with my fellow documentary maker, Steve Drain.

I wondered if I'd fare better with my fellow documentary maker, Steve Drain.

But listen, now that I've come to the end of my time here,

But listen, now that I've come to the end of my time here,

are you curious to hear my thoughts a little bit?

are you curious to hear my thoughts a little bit?

I'd love to hear your thoughts. Go ahead.

You know I spent a little bit of time with the Pastor,

You know I spent a little bit of time with the Pastor,

and I think maybe he's got a lot of anger.

I sense that there's a lot of anger in there. Maybe he's a rageaholic, I don't know.

I sense that there's a lot of anger in there. Maybe he's a rageaholic, I don't know.

But perhaps this ministry is human-focused rather than God-focused.

But perhaps this ministry is human-focused rather than God-focused.

But perhaps this ministry is human-focused rather than God-focused.

Because I do know the Bible's a pretty long book.

I haven't read all of it, but if you pick and choose efficiently enough,

I haven't read all of it, but if you pick and choose efficiently enough,

you can find virtually justification for almost any kind of behavior.

you can find virtually justification for almost any kind of behavior.

When I say God hates fags, okay,

When I say God hates fags, okay,

that's not the whole message that we have.

That's the front burner issue, that's the elephant in the room

That's the front burner issue, that's the elephant in the room

that nobody else is willing to talk about.

that nobody else is willing to talk about.

That's not the only piece of evidence that I would adduce in favour of my argument.

That's not the only piece of evidence that I would adduce in favour of my argument.

I would also say that the whole idea that we, the Westboro Baptist Church,

I would also say that the whole idea that we, the Westboro Baptist Church,

the 75 or 70 of us that are here,

are the only ones going to Heaven, everyone else is Hell-bound.

are the only ones going to Heaven, everyone else is Hell-bound.

If there was somebody else out there

If there was somebody else out there

who was preaching the unvarnished word of God, from cover to cover,

who was preaching the unvarnished word of God, from cover to cover,

we would have heard about them.

When you read the New Testament, you get the sense from Jesus Christ

When you read the New Testament, you get the sense from Jesus Christ

that he was kind of a gentle spirit.

that he was kind of a gentle spirit.

-If He did come back... -He'd be holding this sign.

...in the spirit of the lamb, rather than the lion that they talk about,

...in the spirit of the lamb, rather than the lion that they talk about,

he would be picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church.

he would be picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church.

-I seriously believe that. -You are seriously deluded.

-I seriously believe that. -You are seriously deluded.

I'm preaching what the Bible says.

I'm preaching what the Bible says.

You're preaching what your dark heart says.

I'm willing to talk with you,

I'm willing to talk with you,

-but you're just being silly and specious. -I'm not being silly.

-but you're just being silly and specious. -I'm not being silly.

Of course you are. Of course you are.

-Want a ride back? -I'm not being silly.

-Want a ride back? -I'm not being silly.

I don't think you have the truth. In fact, I think

you're running away from the truth.

you're running away from the truth.

What you're doing is, you're just trying to turn yourself into God

What you're doing is, you're just trying to turn yourself into God

by saying things ought to be this way, things oughta be thus and such.

by saying things ought to be this way, things oughta be thus and such.

You are the one who has the God complex, Louis, not me.

You are the one who has the God complex, Louis, not me.

But I don't claim absolute truth, which is something you do.

But I don't claim absolute truth, which is something you do.

-I don't claim it of myself. -The idea that you can pick and choose,

"These people are elect, so we're nice to them,

"These people are elect, so we're nice to them,

"but we're not really gonna be nice to those other ones."

"but we're not really gonna be nice to those other ones."

Have you ever seen me be mean to a person?

I'm not talking about you specifically, Steve, I'm talking about the Church.

I'm not talking about you specifically, Steve, I'm talking about the Church.

I am the church. I'm one of the members.

Did you rejoice yesterday when that church burned down? The Episcopalian...

Did you rejoice yesterday when that church burned down? The Episcopalian...

You're supposed to rejoice over all of God's judgments.

You're supposed to rejoice over all of God's judgments.

And do you rejoice when soldiers die in Iraq?

And do you rejoice when soldiers die in Iraq?

Absolutely I do.

Do you rejoice when people are knocked over by cars and get cancer?

Absolutely. I love it. And I can tell you right now,

Absolutely. I love it. And I can tell you right now,

because it's the righteous judgment of God Almighty.

because it's the righteous judgment of God Almighty.

Come on.

THEROUX: My time among the hatemongers

of the Westboro Baptist Church was done.

of the Westboro Baptist Church was done.

I'd expected to meet a group that causes pain to people in the outside world,

I'd expected to meet a group that causes pain to people in the outside world,

I'd expected to meet a group that causes pain to people in the outside world,

but I'd been surprised to find that the members of the church

but I'd been surprised to find that the members of the church

are also paying a price themselves.

are also paying a price themselves.

Shut off from the world, they preach a hatred

that is reflected back at them, confirming them in their beliefs

that is reflected back at them, confirming them in their beliefs

and ultimately denying the right

and ultimately denying the right

to a normal life to their youngest members.

-Are we going to go in my car? -Yeah.

-Are we going to go in my car? -Yeah.

Mom, they're here,

Mom, they're here,

and they want to go somewhere to get a drink, like a coffee drink.

and they want to go somewhere to get a drink, like a coffee drink.

No. She said no.

Okay.

Okay.

-We have coffee in our house. -Okay. Maybe we should have a coffee here.

Would that be all right?

Would that be all right?

-How come we couldn't go out and get coffee? -I don't know. She said no.

-How's it going? -Good.

-How's it going? -Good.

Most 21-year-olds, if they wanted to go out for coffee,

Most 21-year-olds, if they wanted to go out for coffee,

they would be able to do that without their parents' permission.

they would be able to do that without their parents' permission.

That's true.

But I'm special!

But I'm special!

I listen to what my parents say.

I listen to what my parents say.

I respect my parents, so...

Do you think it's possible that you are grappling with more, erm...

Do you think it's possible that you are grappling with more, erm...

Do you think it's possible that you are grappling with more, erm...

Than the other women here?

No. What are you talking about?

No. What are you talking about?

I don't know. I sense there's a little bit more inner tension in you.

I don't know. I sense there's a little bit more inner tension in you.

-Inner tension? -Yeah. A little bit.

-Inner tension? -Yeah. A little bit.

Oh, no.

People who watch us will be thinking

People who watch us will be thinking

there's a very nice, charming, attractive young woman

there's a very nice, charming, attractive young woman

and it would be nice to see her

and it would be nice to see her

maybe opening her mind a little bit

and moving out into the world

and moving out into the world

and maybe thinking in a few years of settlin down and starting a family.

and maybe thinking in a few years of settlin down and starting a family.

Why does everybody have to get married?

Well, no one has to.

But why shouldn't everybody have the choice?

But why shouldn't everybody have the choice?

-I have the choice. -You do and you don't.

-I have the choice. -You do and you don't.

It seems that it is so inculcated in you

It seems that it is so inculcated in you

that the outside world is this devilish, satanic place

that the outside world is this devilish, satanic place

that, as you said yourself,

there's really no one for you to go to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Who would even want to marry someone that serves God?

Who would even want to marry someone that serves God?

I don't blame you for being born into a situation

I don't blame you for being born into a situation

that was outside your control,

and I can also see that you're coming to a time in your life

and I can also see that you're coming to a time in your life

where you might start to question some of those things.

where you might start to question some of those things.

That time has come and gone.

I've already reached the age where I have made the decision

I've already reached the age where I have made the decision

of what I want to do in this life.

of what I want to do in this life.

Did you have a rebellious few years?

Louis, if I ever was rebellious,

do you think I would tell you about it?

do you think I would tell you about it?

I'm ashamed of any nonsense that I've ever done.

I'm ashamed of any nonsense that I've ever done.

When we started picketing, when I was First Grade...

When we started picketing, when I was First Grade...

Six years old.

Six years old.

So people have been treating me

So people have been treating me

the way that you see us being treated now

since I was that young, so...

since I was that young, so...

I mean, people didn't treat me right.

What did they do?

What did they do?

Well, nobody wanted to talk to me, really, at school.

Well, nobody wanted to talk to me, really, at school.

And, erm, they were ashamed to be around me.

And, erm, they were ashamed to be around me.

THEROUX: You know that sense of being ostracized?

THEROUX: You know that sense of being ostracized?

Uh-huh.

If you preach that the world is hateful

and full of condemned sinners,

and full of condemned sinners,

then the world will start to take that shape.

then the world will start to take that shape.

Well, it's very simple.

Well, it's very simple.

We read scriptures and we tell people what the standard is.

We read scriptures and we tell people what the standard is.

We read scriptures and we tell people what the standard is.

We don't do violence to people.

We don't do violence to people.

We, erm...

warn them that their sins are taking them to Hell.

warn them that their sins are taking them to Hell.

We do a courteous, loving thing to them.

We do a courteous, loving thing to them.

That's courteous and loving.

That's courteous and loving.

And they...

hate us. And they beat on us.

hate us. And they beat on us.

And they don't want anything to do with us.

They're just downright mean to us sometimes, you know?

What did we do to them? Nothing but a courtesy.

What did we do to them? Nothing but a courtesy.

So...

So...

That's quite a weird kind of courtesy.

How is it weird?

How is it weird?

Going to funerals and waving those placards.

Going to funerals and waving those placards.

We preach to the living, we warn them.

We preach to the living, we warn them.

That's what we're doing.

Are you afraid of going to Hell?

Are you afraid of going to Hell?

Erm, I fear the wrath of God.

Erm, I fear the wrath of God.

I fear, erm, going to Hell.

I fear, erm, going to Hell.

But I certainly hope I won't go there.

But I certainly hope I won't go there.

I think you laughed at the idea of me in Hell

I think you laughed at the idea of me in Hell

because maybe it made you feel that you weren't going to Hell.

because maybe it made you feel that you weren't going to Hell.

I laughed at the thought of you going to Hell because...

I laughed at the thought of you going to Hell because...

I know you, Louis, and you're a scoffer and a mocker.

I know you, Louis, and you're a scoffer and a mocker.

It gives me pleasure to know

that the Lord will vindicate His people

that the Lord will vindicate His people

and He will glorify His own name.

and He will glorify His own name.

'Cause that's all this is about, is glorifying God.

'Cause that's all this is about, is glorifying God.

So...

That's why I smiled.

That's why I smiled.

-Come on. -I haven't scoffed at you.

-Come on. -I haven't scoffed at you.

Let's get out to the picket.

Rules that you should obey.

Did you do it for me?

Did you do it for me?

Yeah, I'm gonna let you have it so you can carry it around,

so you can know all the rules of obeying God.

so you can know all the rules of obeying God.

Don't kill people.

Don't kill people.

Don't marry two people.

Don't lie.

Don't lie.

I think everyone lies some in their life.

I think everyone lies some in their life.

Maybe when they're a kid.

Don't act like a snake.

Don't act like a snake.

More especially you, I guess.

Actually, all of these, I guess.

Actually, all of these, I guess.

What does that mean, act like a snake?

What does that mean, act like a snake?

I can't remember.

(LAUGHTER)

(LAUGHTER)

-Hey! You were saying... -No, Noah...

Don't say that.

Don't say that.

You've been saying I act like a snake?

No! You clarify for him.

No! You clarify for him.

Yeah.

Don't act like a snake.

Then it says, "Don't be sneaky."

Then it says, "Don't be sneaky."

See, he was clarifying for you already.

NOAH: Yeah.

NOAH: Yeah.