Original subtitles

(Ominous music)

(light crackling)

- This film looks at UFOs.

Is there a religious, spiritual,

non-physical element to them?

Are they paranormal?

Are they divine?

Are they demonic?

These are some of the questions we shall explore

in this film.

(screen crackling)

- Everything is interrelated

and the more we study history

and the more we study current events,

we see that all of these things are linked together

in strange ways.

That the UFOs,

as most of you know, who have read my books,

I don't think they're extraterrestrial at all.

I think that they're definitely tied to the human race

and that they react to things

that are happening to the human race.

I don't think they're vehicles.

I think sometimes people see what appears to be vehicles,

but they're really hallucinatory.

Whatever your belief is,

these manifestations are going to

assume that form.

(typewriter typing) (ominous music)

- So, Guy, UFOs

as angels, as divine.

What are your thoughts?

- Well, it's interesting, isn't it?

I think over, you know,

the last, I don't know,

centuries, there's been these kind of contact

with either demonic or angelic.

And now in this century,

suddenly like those kind of contact

has become more linked to UFOs.

So I think you need to view 'em in the context of,

or the historical context of

the time that those sort of strange occurrences happened.

- Sure, I guess if you go back to the times of the Bible,

especially the Old Testament,

there's all these different passages

that could be interpreted as UFOs,

Ezekiel's wheel within a wheel.

Maybe that was a UFO, the flying scroll.

That could be a UFO.

So what you're saying is that these things

basically interpreted it at the time,

like as a religious thing,

but in fact you're thinking

they might just be a physical nuts and bolts spaceship, or?

- Yeah, I think so.

It's just looking at,

because the actual experiences are quite similar,

you know, from century to century,

the same kind of like experiences people have had,

but it's just taking it

and looking at that lens of that moment in history.

So when religious fever was, you know,

or people were deeply, deeply religious,

they're gonna see these experiences through the lens

of demons and angels maybe.

Whereas now, where we are living in a less religious kind

of society, maybe the veneer of religion

has exposed these experiences to what they actually are,

which is aliens using, you know,

spaceships and technology.

- I think the whole nuts and bolts thing,

and then from another world, is diverting people,

it's there in the room, it's diverting people away

from what's really going on.

I think, 'cause we live in a technological age, you know,

we call them aliens, or extraterrestrial craft.

A hundred years ago, they would've been demons and angels.

- I think it's no accident,

and this might be about people's psychological makeup.

I think it's no accident

that alien abduction experiences in the recent past

actually mirror people who met earth spirits,

fairies and things like that centuries ago.

And there are certain uncanny parallels.

Like if anybody tries to take something from a UFO

or the fairy realm to prove where they've been

and to prove the value of what happened to them,

it has a habit of melting away in,

when it comes back to our world, you know?

And so in those circumstances, yeah, I mean,

you would think that it might be a similar phenomena

that produced the experience in the firsthand.

The reason people don't see fairies now

is that they don't expect it.

You know, these days, they see aliens,

but it might well be that the bedrock

of that experience is the same thing.

So, you know, I think people are interpreting,

I think they're a real phenomena

that we don't understand.

- So I've spoken to people that say, well,

actually these are demons.

The UFOs are demons

and they take the appearance

the other way around from what you're saying.

They're taking the appearance

of UFOs and aliens as kind of deceivers, you know,

the cosmic joker, tricksters.

- [Guy] Yeah.

- I mean, the 1950s UFO researcher, John Keel,

famous for "The Mothman Prophecies,"

he suggested that there was an element of this trickster,

this cosmic joker, this kind of demon

that was playing jokes on mankind.

It's attached to us in some way throughout our history

and has always played these jokes.

And it will take the form of whatever, just to confuse,

just to irritate us, basically.

And, you know, he was the first person really to take aliens

and UFOs and put them in a non-physical context.

He called them ultra terrestrials,

like they're from a different dimension, a different world.

And that's what people said fairies were,

they were from different worlds, different dimensions.

And anybody who came into contact

with a fairy was profoundly changed.

- [Guy] Yeah.

- So there are similarities there.

- I believe very much in, you know, are we alone?

Are there alien races?

You know, like most researchers go down that route,

the nuts and bolts, mechanical craft, other thing.

Over the years, I've, you know,

I've maintained an active interest in research.

And I've read many authors' different works,

like you probably have as well in your own research,

and I formed my own opinions.

And what happened with me personally, I got involved with

a guy called Reverend Paul Inglesby.

And he was involved with,

who was then the Admiral Lord Hill-Norton,

who was quite prominent at the time,

had an interest in UFOs.

And basically they produced a limited edition,

I don't know if you can see that,

a limited edition little booklet here.

- Okay, yeah. - (indistinct) You, isn't it?

But that's the.

"UFO Concern Report on the Lord Hill-Norton Initiative."

- [Mark] Wow.

- And the basic of it was,

it was the close circulation report

that was sent to people of importance, (chuckles)

as he put it.

- So to who would've that, the people of importance?

- It was sent to various MPs,

I think heads of MOD, church leaders, and stuff like that.

And what it basically was-

- Would, sorry, would Prince Philip had,

would've had a copy, do you think?

- I believe he did.

Yeah, he did have, I think somewhere,

I mean, I haven't read this for a few years now,

but I believe somewhere in there,

there's quite a long intro to it.

And it basically, I don't if you've ever seen it at all,

when we've got hold of a copy,

but they basically go through various concerns,

cover up, defense, political, media influence,

salient contact to control,

abductions, Guinea pigs, mutilations, Mars,

psychic, religious and spiritual, goes on and on and on.

- [Mark] Yeah, yeah.

- Anyway, to cut to the chase,

it's quite apparent.

I met Paul Inglesby at the time,

I believe he's deceased now.

I met him in Glastonbury.

So I was invited in as a consultant,

and they had various consultants from various fields.

My particular expertise was psychotherapy and hypnosis

and regression, which was my knowledge, and mental health.

You know, is it a delusion?

Is this person deluded, (chuckles) you know?

But that was my expertise in it.

But having conversations with Paul Inglesby

and they basically,

the book is full of reports from people around the world:

France, Sweden, Germany, Canada, United States,

all over the place actually.

And it sort of lists people's concerns as to

what is going on, people's own thought,

and also people's own experiences,

we've either seen craft or having experiences with,

so you call 'em entities, if you want a better word.

And it was quite apparent that they believed

that the phenomenon was spiritual in nature.

It wasn't a nuts and bolts thing.

The church was concerned about it unofficially.

- [Mark] Right. Okay.

- I 100% believe it's a spiritual phenomena,

personally, from my own experience,

and the things I've read

and people I've met over the years.

And that basically,

through my experiences with paranormal research, you know,

I saw a very close link.

And the link was, it was several things.

And focusing on the purely demonic side of it,

it was the darker side of it.

And throughout history, there's been, you know,

there's reports of demons and angels.

You can go way back to the biblical times, you know,

angels, demons, fairytales,

and every single ultra in the world reports to them.

And they're also very similar in appearance,

either reptilian (chuckles) in appearance

or insect in appearance.

Obviously the most common.

UFO, I suppose, we would call nowadays

is the supposed UFO Gray alien,

'cause everybody knows,

partly through, were described from communion,

and stuff like this.

That's the most popular image of an alien Gray.

But if you go back into ancient history

and you read about, you know,

if you read about the story of alien abductions,

none of them are very beneficial (chuckles)

to the person involved.

- [Mark] Sure, okay.

- You know, the sexual assault in the middle

of the night (chuckles), and stuff like this.

And it ties in very much with ancient mythology

about incubus and succubus, which are demonic entities

that feed off people and stuff like this.

- You know, medieval times,

if you saw a kind of light in the sky,

you're gonna see an angel, maybe.

- Absolutely, well, there's a documented case in Nuremberg

in Germany in medieval times.

And people saw crosses in the sky in terms

of like a Jesus cross.

It's probably, you could say it was a UFO triangle,

but they've interpreted it-

- Of course, yeah.

- As a cross because that's, you know,

their religious further, I guess.

- Yeah.

- So, you know, going back, you know,

to angels in the Bible, you know, angels,

by definition, are extraterrestrial.

They're not of this world, not of this planet.

They come from heaven, which again,

is extraterrestrial, is out there.

These angels, you know,

they're always glowing, you know, why are they glowing?

What's causing them to glow?

And like Moses in the Bible went up to get

to the Ten Commandments, received them from God.

When he came down, he was glowing.

So quite clearly says that in the Bible.

So it's like these, why is he glowing?

Has he encountered this divine presence, this God,

or was it an alien?

- Well, we spoke about

incidents involving what appears

to be similar described objects going back

to Victorian times, which there have been.

And there's little doubt that if,

jokingly, I said if we had the internet in the 13th century,

we would be probably none the wiser,

but we would've, the amount of sightings

of strange objects then would've

been brought to our attention.

But of course what people imagine in those days,

particularly the medieval age,

if you went around saying you'd seen golden lights

in the sky, you could end up on the bloody, (chuckles)

you could end up on the fire, couldn't you?

It's just a shame that we've come all this way

and, really, how far have we got without talking about

other avenues in research that we've spoken to before.

But I don't know.

I just think it's important that people come and have a look

and see for themselves, yeah.

- The phenomena, as we all know,

And of course, eminent, you know, ufologist, Jacques Vallee,

the brilliant man himself has considered this.

And I think that, you know,

we're not jumping on the bandwagon,

but certainly research shows us

that the phenomena seems

to be one step ahead of where we are.

It will never give what it is.

It'll tell lies to people

that are within their presence,

say whether or not it's the ferry fault back in the day,

or, you know, the Venetians or,

and now, then the space brothers and then the Grays.

No, there is something very interesting.

And the phenomena is interested, key point,

interested in what we are,

and especially with intergenerational connection links,

which is interesting,

because most people who've had some kind

of UFO experience or encounter,

and we've had them at close range on a number of occasions,

very close range,

although we still don't know what they are,

we find that it's linked with family.

So I think that perhaps we're looking at something

that goes beyond what we are.

But the really disturbing element is,

let's just take the Grays,

which were in vogue and in fashion at the moment,

they seem like they don't die.

I mean, I know that we die

and we have to question the spiritual component

or the conscious component that seems

to surpass this matrix.

But they seem to be on this program.

And my argument

and my research is what is it that they want?

What are they looking for? What is it?

- I mean, I went and interviewed Randall Jones Pugh.

He was a BUFORA investigator.

He was a vet by profession.

And he, I can relive these things in the house with him and

we were talking about it.

And he said, "John, are you religious?"

And I said, "Well, I'm a Christian."

He said, "No, no, no, that's not what I meant," he said.

"Do you take, you know,

are you Catholic or do you go to church, and et cetera?"

And I said, "Well, not really."

And so he said, "Well,

I admire for what you're doing," he said, "but,"

he said, "don't bother."

He said, "Because this is demonic."

This is what this is all about, demonic.

"You know, UFOs are demonic."

And he told me about two sightings he'd had.

And then, well, then I left.

Yeah, but he's not the only one.

I've met other people that had got involved.

And then one of them was

the Reverend Paul Inglesby.

He was a mate of Lord Hill-Norton's.

Back in the 90s, they brought something out,

but "UFO Concern," I think, it was called.

And they wanted to raise the interest.

They wanted some sort of disclosure.

Well, it wasn't gonna go anywhere at all,

but the Reverend Paul Inglesby thought thought

that it was demonic, so split it away from the UFO.

But as we said before,

come on, UFO and paranormal.

Surely, surely, at times, they interact.

So that indicates the possibility

that we're talking about the same phenomena.

And it's like somebody once said to me, well,

hang on, if you see a light in the sky, it's UFO.

If you see a light crawling across your floor at night,

you think, my god, that's demonic, or that's paranormal.

So maybe there is a connection.

I think there is a connection, isn't there?

- I tend to go back to (chuckles) John Keel,

his ultra terrestrials, his cosmic jokers,

his tricksters have always been with us.

That's part of the human evolution, if you will.

It's always been attached to us.

I think they could be lurking in other dimensions, other,

you know, which is physical things,

but we just we can't comprehend them,

because, I mean, they could be all around us in terms

of popping in and out of existence.

But due to what we can see in our visual frequency,

what we can understand, you know,

unlimited brain capacity, I guess, will we ever get to it?

And I think you made this point earlier

that maybe we never will,

and maybe it'll, by investigating these things,

like people have done,

just either you end up crazy or dead.

- Yeah. (laughing) Yes, I know.

Will we ever get an answer?

- Now I think these entities are demonic

and masquerading as all sorts of things,

masquerading as angels,

masquerading as... So let's...

Yeah, sorry, let's go back to what do you mean by demonic?

I guess that's my next.

- Well, the thing is, I suppose if you go back to demonic,

the first thing you've gotta ask yourself

is do demons exist? (chuckling)

- Yeah. Yeah.

- And this is where,

this is where people started getting incredulous,

'cause obviously, you know,

you can go back through way, way back in time, you know,

and there's all sorts of, you know,

we were very superstitious,

but the fact is the Vatican still trains exorcists.

- [Mark] Yeah, yeah, I know.

- So if demons don't exist,

why would they train exorcists?

They would just say demons don't exist.

- But I see what you're saying.

You're coming from the kind of ancient alien view, which is,

these are the same spaceships we're seeing now

that were seen thousands of years ago,

interpreted in different ways as divine or demonic.

Whereas in fact you're saying there could be nuts

and bolts craft?

- Yeah, I mean, the experiences appear to be very similar.

So, you know, that paralysis,

being kind of like,

I think there's like generally,

or often a kind of sexual theme to it, or, yeah.

- Well, yeah, the incubus, succubus,

you know, were seen as demons,

sexual demons, and then the UFO experience.

You've got, you know, female eggs been taken,

sperm been taken from the man,

Betty and Barney Hill had some of that with, you know,

the first documented UFO case.

So yeah, maybe there's something to it.

- Three former chairman of BUFORA,

which is the British UFO Research Association,

all of them were convinced that UFOs were of demonic origin

and not nuts and bolts craft.

Roger Stanway, who was the one of the heads,

resigned in 1976 and became a born-again Christian.

And allegedly, allegedly said,

"I believe the UFO phenomena has satanic origins."

- Certainly, one should never get wedded to

a single point of view.

And although the extraterrestrial hypothesis is the one

that's most deeply embedded in people's consciousness

when it comes to the non-conventional explanations

for UFO slash UAP,

frankly, it's only one of a number of competing theories,

interdimensional, time travelers from the future, demonic.

One of the most interesting things

in the June 25th, 2021 preliminary assessment

of UAP published by the.

Office of the Director of National Intelligence

was the statement that there's likely not

a single neat solution to this mystery.

Chances are there are a number

of different things going on in parallel,

and that may well be the case.

So as crazy as it might sound to some, for example,

there is, and of course this is in your film.

There is a faction within,

particularly the US government,

but I've seen it in the UK as well,

who believe that UFOs are demonic.

And they get this, in a large part,

from a passage in the Bible, in the book of Ephesians,

which talks about Satan in terms of being, quote,

the prince of the power of the heir, unquote.

And this faction, through that,

and maybe some other things too,

have convinced themselves that this,

or some of this may be demonic,

and therefore, they say,

that you shouldn't engage with it,

you shouldn't study it,

because that feeds it energy.

And so it's an interesting irony that

some of the pushback to serious research

and investigation of this

in the US and the UK government

didn't come from hard-nosed science-minded skeptics

who thought it was all a waste of time and money.

It came from a believer faction,

but just a different believer faction.

A faction that felt it was demonic,

and that we shouldn't study it

for the reasons I've just explained.

And I happen to think they're wrong,

but there's no getting away their influence.

Lu Elizondo, who headed up the Pentagon's AATIP program,

which came before AARO and before the UAP Task Force,

he said on one occasion,

he was trying to get a senior manager in the Pentagon

to take this more seriously.

The guy sort of batted him away

and said, "Go read your Bible."

That's the mindset that you're coming up against,

a sort of fundamentalist Christian interpretation of this.

- But then again,

is this a spiritual battle going on, do you think?

Or is that just a bit farfetched?

- It's really difficult.

I mean, personally,

I wouldn't see UFOs as demonic in that sense.

I mean, the issue is,

and what you're gonna find with evangelical Christians is,

and the Bible doesn't really have the paranormal in effect.

I mean, there's a fabulous,

there's a couple of ghosts in there.

And then the fabulous story of Samuel, which I love.

And Jesus, of course, is described as a ghost

by the disciples.

So obviously they're aware of this stuff.

It's not saying there isn't paranormal,

but understand that their cosmology

and their theology is all bound up in this idea

of demons and demonic entities.

And that's how it all works.

And that goes right into the New Testament,

you know, the system is based on this idea

of demonic presences everywhere.

And that counts for all kinds of things

that we might nowadays call mental illness or whatever.

So they're always,

so any kind of anomalous phenomena,

certainly in one capacity,

if you're going to read it from a biblical perspective,

you're always gonna put it into a demonic kind of category,

'cause that's kind of,

that's the mindset of how the Bible works.

That's the cosmology of Christian Judaism.

- Going back to the demons and angels type thing,

there may be good and/or bad,

like alien type consciousnesses.

So that kind of thought scares me a bit,

because perhaps you'd end up contacting like

a sort of evil type alien species.

(typewriter typing) (ominous music)

- I think the UFO phenomena,

the paranormal are linked.

Trying to prove it is a different matter.

Maybe we'll never be able to prove it.

And go I'd back to John Hanson from the UFO Learning Center.

And he, you know, he says,

"You don't want to know the truth."

You know, he's been warned off. (chuckling)

- Right? Yeah. - Saying,

"You don't want to know, don't bother.

Don't bother investigating it."

Well, I mean, it was the priest who's saying it's demonic.

- Yeah. Leave it well alone.

- There's another famous guy,

a famous medium called Robin Foy you may have heard of.

- I've heard of him, yeah. - Robin Foy?

- Yeah, he ran a thing called the Scole Group up in Norfolk,

where they were doing experiments with physical phenomena.

They're trying to create physical phenomena

in a seance situation.

And they believed they discovered some sort

of new energy that can manifest stuff.

And Robin Foy wrote a book,

I think it was called "Beyond the Impossible."

It's a really thick, about 700 pages long.

It's quite a heavy read.

But funny enough, there's one single picture in that book of

a entity that manifested to them,

and it's the almond-shaped head with big black eyes again.

The alien Gray.

But they didn't call them aliens,

they called them entities.

- But that's what, as I say, when I initially,

originally spent time in the forest with Brenda and others,

people used to come up to me and say,

"Oh, did you see that golden orb

coming up the forest floor

or that thing in the sky?"

And I thought to myself,

"Whoa, did you see it?"

Oh, I thought to myself, "My God, they're imagining it."

And then I saw these things myself

and even photographed them.

- [Mark] What were they?

- [John] The, sorry?

- [Mark] What were they?

- Well, I don't know. - Okay,

what did they look like?

- Sorry? - What did they look like?

- Well, orbs floating a few feet off the floor,

crackling with energy near left at Eastgate.

On the 27th of December 2000, I filmed,

we were in the forest then,

suddenly this thing appeared in the sky

and began to rotate over Capel Green.

So we filmed it, and I've got the film here.

It's gone out many times, so I can't explain that.

But for me,

the most strangest things was the aports of stones.

Because what would happen,

we'd go to a part

of the forest where you'd know nobody had followed us,

because there were these lights was pitch black.

And I always made sure that Brenda was first, not me,

because as you go through the forest in the morning,

it's covered in cobwebs.

And if you're not careful in these cobwebs,

there's a big spider.

And the last thing you want to do is going first

is get a spider on your face.

I don't like spiders, who does?

But Brenda used to go first

and there was a party of about six or seven of us

and then we'd stop and then we'd sit down

and we'd just, I don't use the word meditate.

I think we'd just sit down there and

be quiet for a few minutes and just relax.

And then it would be black as hell out there, pitch dark.

And then suddenly, you'd hear something go thud

onto the floor and you'd sweep your torch around

and you'd see,

you wouldn't see the stone

that had fallen, because there were stones everywhere.

But you would then touch the stones

and one of these stones were so hot,

you could hardly handle it.

Now what life force energy

or power, whatever you wanna call it,

could move a stone like that

and drop it near you?

And they were quite common though, isn't it?

- Personally, I think they're interdimensional.

You know, I mean, I'm just making some notes,

so I was jot down some notes this morning.

I have to read them, so I can't remember.

My brain's not brilliant.

I've put here,

similarity between demonic encounters and alien encounters,

is quite astounding.

Both can appear or disappear at will in an instant.

You get them with alien encounters and demonic encounters.

Sleep paralysis or the inability

to move is common in both in the middle of the night

where something comes into the room,

alien encounters, demonic encounters.

Images are projected into your mind

of the end of the world scenarios, atomic war,

destruction, blah, blah, blah, common to both.

Levitation is common in both.

In physical mediumship, so I have some experience.

So I've seen tables float around the room

with no apparent means of support

through an energy of some sort.

A reptilian or insect appearance is common to both.

I've got here, raping and sexual molestation.

Would a beneficial alien presence

really subjects anyone to a forced rape?

No, that to me is, I can't see how people can say,

oh no, you know,

they're concerned for our welfare, really? (laughing)

- I'm just trying to, so you think that,

is there a connection between normal,

I say normal, paranormal phenomena and, you know, UFOs?

- Yeah, I think there is a connection.

I think there is a connection.

On the paranormal side of things,

I played a couple stories to you.

When I was involved in mediumship,

I had two very nice ladies

who're in their 70s, early 80s,

got in touch with me through Psychic News Magazine.

There's an article in that time about physical phenomena.

And we arranged to meet up

and they lived down

on the King coast not far from me.

And they've been involved in this research for years.

I mean, the knowledge these two ladies have was incredible.

It was very much like me,

they was open-minded about all sorts of things,

all sorts of possibilities,

but they were very much involved in spiritualism,

they were spiritualist, so, me,

with a table and a group of stuff like that.

And basically invited me into it.

Over time, we became friends,

and used to meet up for cups of tea and coffee like that.

And I remember one of them saying to me,

I've gotta just refer from my notes here,

'cause I wanna get this exactly right.

I don't sort of say something that she didn't say.

Oh yeah, that's right.

Yeah. I'll called 'em Helen and Rusty,

that's a sort nickname, isn't it?

Late 70s, early 80s.

Used to sit in a regular spiritualist circle in their flats

and they had an entity appear one night.

Basically she was saying to me that

she went into the hallway

and there was a creature standing there with a large head,

big black eyes, just looking at her.

A typical alien Gray, and just vanished.

And I have absolutely no reason to displease these.

They're the most sincere people I've ever met

and they're very genuine.

They don't publicize anything.

They haven't written any books. They've got no websites.

It's all written private.

- So, I mean, so for me,

I mean, the divine I understand

is a metaphysical concept.

And I don't know how much you understand with metaphysic.

So metaphysics is really the study

of the ultimate reality.

And within that ultimate reality are things such

as a material world, right?

But that's not the full nature of reality,

a facet of reality.

So the idea is that somehow,

we can access different elements of reality.

And so by understanding the divine,

we might use different elements to access this,

to go beyond our material makeup.

- That reminds me of a gentleman,

Tom Trowbridge, what a smashing bloke Tom is.

Tom and Chris Trowbridge used to spend a lot of time

around Warminster in the 70s.

And Tom, he's a very, very clever bloke.

He designed what he called

like a hexagonal copper sphere to try

and pick something up in the crop circles.

And he went out one evening,

and nothing happened.

Took it home, and put it on top of the wardrobe.

All this is covered in the books.

Strange things happened, shadows started to appear,

things were dropping down, all sorts of weird stuff.

And so there's something

that bridges that gap between

what we regard as everyday living

and something else out there, isn't it?

Whether it's supernatural or paranormal

or religious, I don't know,

but there's something that we do something,

we can only do it,

I think we do it physically and it cracks off again.

And I've got quite a few cases

where people have had sightings and

they've been, they've gotten close

to the ultraviolet radiation that these objects give off.

And it's caused, not only psychological,

physical problems, but also disruptions around the house

where, not only electrical appliances are changed

and mechanical appliances are changed,

clocks are messed about when things start appearing.

So in some ways, perhaps it's a good thing that we are,

would we really,

and going back to the original conversation,

would we really want to know what's out there?

Would we really want this to be part

of a maybe everyday life?

I can't say.

- I mean demonic, they're arch deceivers, they deceive.

That's the point. - So is the kind

of cosmic joker trickster that-

- Exactly, that's a good terminology, yeah.

Cosmic, I've witnessed the same thing in mediumship.

I mean, I dunno what you know

about mediumship and spiritualism.

It's basic clairvoyance, which means clear scene

where a medium will get images in their mind.

Most mediumship is clairvoyant nowadays.

It's a clairvoyant,

it's a psychic ability that everybody has.

You have it, I have it, everybody has it in various degrees.

A sense, if you like, sometimes.

It's just more developed in some than others.

Physical mediumship is rarer nowadays.

It's where you have,

a group of people will meet in a closed room,

usually in the dark,

and they will get physical phenomena.

They will get lights moving around the room.

They may get an apparition.

I've attended a few of these purely as a guest.

And I honestly, honestly,

I believe what they think they're communicating with

as being something good, which is not, (chuckles)

it's something bad,

demonic, pretending to be something good.

- Well, yeah, I can give you my theory.

As you probably know,

everybody's got their own theory.

But I think there is a form of energy,

an ether, for want of a better word that's out there.

We can't see electricity unless we've got dials to register.

It's flooding all around you, it's going through your body.

So there's this form of energy that's certain people

are either born with or they can learn how to do it

and use this energy to help, you know,

either move spirit on or create psychic healing.

So to answer your question, it would be,

it's always there somewhere in the ether,

this psychic energy.

It sounds whimsical, except that to the skeptics,

but for want of a better word,

that's where it is, is all around us.

- Yeah, okay, I mean, I'm on a quest to try

and tie all these things together.

Try and, you know, see what this is,

this mystical ether.

This formless substance, this, you know, magical stuff.

Do you think it's somehow linked to the UFO experience?

- Well, it's funny because I've been asked that before.

I did a crossover, for want of a better word, you know?

And that's only happened, in my research, only once.

I can only talk about one case, and it's down in Devon.

And this lady was getting bothered

with poltergeist manifestations, you know,

things moving around the family home,

things falling off shelves, knockings,

she was getting nipped and punched and all the rest.

It was really dreadful.

And she says, we were interviewing her,

and then she's talking away and it's where, "No, it's okay."

I went, "What?"

It's okay. I don't, I'm...

I said, "No, tell me."

I need to know anything, even though it sounds ridiculous.

Please, we're here, we've traveled through London

to be in Devon today.

"We need to know everything."

You'll not believe me.

We will, well, try us.

So what she said was that when she woke up and she says,

"Malcolm, I wasn't dreaming."

I woke up, I was wide awake.

I dunno what woke me up,

but I looked at the bottom of the bed and to the left

in semi darkness was a small Gray being.

To the right, was a spirit child.

Like, you know, I dunno if some

of your viewers may recall

a TV program called "Little House on the Prairie."

- Yeah. - It's an American show.

This little spirit child was dressed like that.

So here's a crossover.

My goodness me, we have a small Gray alien

in that room, sorry, in that side of the room,

and then a little child there.

And whilst I'm aware of other similar stories,

that was the first one that I became aware of.

Now it's fair to say that that family home

and the surrounding area,

which was a farmhouse out in the Sticks,

had seen a lot of UFO activity as well.

So that just wasn't a one off, you know?

And it makes me wonder, are they truly a crossover?

You know, some of these UFOs are flitting in

and out of the sky.

Does that mean that they are coming

from different dimensions,

as French Physicist Jacques Vallee would suggest?

- [Mark] Yeah, so, John,

can you tell us about the Broad Haven UFO?

Well, I can, yes.

First of all, this is contained

in the January-February '77 file.

So before we get to actually the incident happened

on the 4th of February 1977

at Broad Haven County Primary School

when the kids saw, well,

it gives the game away what sort of thing they saw.

But this is the just January,

there's a lot of interest around

the Wales area with reports, but,

(plastic crackling) all right.

Seriously, these are the images

these are original images taken by the kids.

Yeah, and on the back is some,

(plastic crackling)

is a rough, some rough information.

(ominous music)

- UFO incident in Wales.

- Yeah.

- And these school kids all witnessed a UFO landing nearby

and they all came out of the school and saw it.

And what was amazing about it,

they all went back to the classroom

and drew independently what they saw.

And so these amazing childlike drawings

of this UFO craft with occupants coming out of it,

and they all kinda tie up.

I mean, why would they make it up?

(ominous music)

I mean, it does raise the question,

maybe kids find it easy to perceive paranormal

phenomena because they say that, you know,

kids can see ghosts easier.

Maybe it's the same with UFOs.

There's quite a few school sightings

around the world, I wonder.

- Again, like things like poltergeists as well it's

children and teenagers seem to connect

to these kind of

experiences a lot.

- Is that 'cause they haven't had it

kind of kicked out of them by... (chuckles)

- [Guy] Maybe, yeah.

- They still kind of, yeah, open to it.

- I guess you're born and maybe you're purer

and you vibrate at a higher level

until the depressive reality

of life kinda brings your vibrational level down

to something that the government would enjoy more

or find it easier to control more.

- [Mark] Yeah.

- I've seen a UFO.

Myself and my husband, Carl, we were heading to Ruthin

where we do a emotional experience at Ruthin Castle.

And anybody that's going through the, you know,

that way from Cheshire to North Wales

on the back roads, beautiful countryside.

And we were there and the roads were clear.

There was nothing there. Very clear night sky.

And we looked up and Carl slowed the car down

and there were two lights in the sky.

And one was above the other.

Now normally with aircraft,

you'll see like a flashing red light or orange light,

won't you, or whatever.

There was no flashing lights whatsoever.

And we slowed right down and they were hovering there

and we thought, well,

what are the lanterns that people have?

- [Mark] That is lanterns.

- Yeah, are they those?

Then we thought, is it a helicopter,

'cause they were hovering, but again,

we didn't see any flashing lights.

And we thought, this is really odd.

They're just hovering there.

And then the most extraordinary thing happened.

They both, at the exactly the same time,

just (mimics swooshing) whizzed off at such a high speed.

It was not possible with any flying.

It just wasn't a plane, wasn't helicopter, nothing.

And we both experienced that.

And quite a lot of people have experienced things

on that route.

- Well, you know, like, personally,

I was a child in Warminster

in the 70s. - Oh wow.

- Yeah, (chuckles) and, yeah,

I remember as a child,

being drawn out of my bed down the stairs,

floating, and there was a glowing being,

blue glowing humanoid thing that was there.

And I was being drawn towards that.

And again, very tangible, very real.

I think all these people's experiences,

they describe it as,

because the first thing that people say is,

is this a dream?

And you know the difference between a dream

and a tangible real kind of experience and, yeah.

So glowing humanoid type,

or it's a definitely a kind of,

a connecting kind of theme across

all these experiences or, yeah.

- Sure, I mean, my own experience when I was a child,

I had this face appear on the wall,

bit like an angel coming to warn me,

but, you know,

giving me hope that everything would be all right.

It's like this blue shining light on the wall,

kind of opened up like a portal.

I interpreted it at the time

as an angelic experience.

- My idea is that they are perhaps interdimensional.

I think that is the closest that we can get to it.

And people tend to try to say, well, you know,

interdimension is like ethereal,

or it doesn't have any substance to it.

Well, think of your mobile phone.

You've got the physical hardware

and you've got the signal, which is the phone.

Both of those operating on different levels of

what we call our reality.

One in our reality, the other not,

and both can interconnect with one another.

So my idea is that this intelligence,

or this force, whatever's behind it,

is able to integrate itself

or mold itself into our reality.

Quite where they're coming from, we're not sure,

but they must be coming from somewhere.

And this is something that's very fascinating.

And not just that, but we have information

or, you know, we're probably basing our assumptions

on loose whims at the moment of investigations

and whistleblowers, but they're a different species.

So my argument's always been where are the aliens?

If there is a pub somewhere, Mark,

that they're hanging down, let me know,

'cause I'll be down there to meet them

and have a chat with them. (chuckles)

So I think when we look at the multicomplexed phenomena,

UFOs in one box, aliens in another, Dogman in another,

Sasquatch in another, where are they?

And why do these areas promote these levels

of high strangeness?

So I'm not sure of whether or not when the UFO comes

into our reality.

It seems to affect the space around it,

distorting both space and time,

allowing for perhaps other dimensions of reality

to interlock with ours.

- So there seems to be some sort of link

between UFOs and the paranormal.

Because what they saw are these lights, you know,

you could say the UFOs,

but if people see a light in a haunted house, it's a ghost.

- [Guy] Yeah.

- And he makes that point as well.

You know, there are similarities

between UFO experiences and ghost experiences, I think.

I just wonder whether science,

spirituality, religion will ever kinda combine

in a grand theory.

This is what this film's trying to do.

- Yeah, yeah.

(typewriter typing) (ominous music)

- I think we've also gotta be aware of that,

I speak with author Neil Nixon

and he talks about why, as humans,

in terms of our evolution,

we've evolved with the need to believe in something

that came from an evolutionary standpoint.

And the fact that, you know, the peoples that had a god

or something like that to worship

and the crops failed,

it was easy for them to make a sacrifice and get through,

and that's how they evolved.

And so it's been part of the human condition

and that's why he says mystery matters,

that we need this urge

to believe in something higher than ourselves.

And he points out that, you know,

he thinks UFOs, things that are purely just,

you know, military projects that are secret.

And, you know, I respect his opinion.

And there could be that possibility that, you know,

what we are seeing is just military technology

that's kept very, very secret.

There was trillions spent, especially in America on this,

you know, black budget, dark ops.

It's kept very, very secrets, so maybe it is that and,

you know, it's even fooling its own military pilots,

like David Grusch and Ryan Fravor, Ryan Graves, sorry,

David Fravor, they've all testified

that they've seen and engaged with craft they can't explain,

but it could be the US military testing out this technology

on their own military about their knowledge,

which is why they're so sincere

in what they've said they've seen.

So we've always gotta be aware that, you know,

gotta have open minds.

And I think there might be something more to it,

but, you know, to be balanced,

it could just be secret technology.

- Yeah, I do believe that the search for alien civilizations

should be in the mainstream of science.

First because it resonates with the public

and the public fund science.

And we have the scientific tools to address this question.

We can use our cameras, our telescopes, our microscopes,

based on my latest expedition

to the Pacific Ocean,

to learn what's outside the solar system,

and to figure out whether we have a neighbor.

The reason it's transformative for humanity is

for the same reason that finding

a partner changes your life.

Suddenly you're not alone.

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in physics

wrote towards the end of his book, the first three minutes,

the more we analyze the universe,

the more pointless it looks.

And to me, that's a sign of studying lifeless objects.

Objects like elementary particles,

radiation, stars, black holes, and so forth.

However, the minute we find a partner that is just like us,

conscious and intelligent, it will change our perspective.

Suddenly the universe would not appear lonely anymore.

And moreover, we can learn from our partner,

we can grow in our perspective.

As of now, we are investing $2 trillion a year

on military budgets.

If we were to realize

that there is a third dimension out there,

that there is much more real estate

in space than there is on Earth,

we might decide to explore space.

And if we were to invest $2 trillion a year

in space exploration,

after listening to the words of John Lennon,

"Imagine all the people living in peace,"

then I calculated we could reach

all stars in the Milky Way galaxy

by sending probes to them,

billions of them within a century.

The probes will get there within a billion years,

but we would at least approach those stars

within just one century.

And if there is

a more intelligent civilization out there,

my hope is that they did it already.

And we can just look at our backyard to check

if any of their probes reached us and learn from those.

- AI, being on that massive,

like, acceleration curve,

it might help us find some

of those answers quicker or,

I don't know,

I mean, things like the technology around alien spacecraft,

AI might be able to understand

it better or-

- [Mark] Reverse engineer.

- [Guy] Yeah. Yeah.

- So if the US military

does have downed UFOs, want of a better word.

Has it used AI to back engineer it?

Maybe that's what we're seeing.

- Yeah, it could be.

- The three so-called, the Pentagon videos, right?

They're spread over a number of years,

from 2004 to only a few years ago.

And they include,

the most spectacular is filmed over the Pacific

during a military exercise by pilots

in American fighters, yeah, right?

- Yeah, yeah. - That have come off...

Well, yeah, so, (chuckles) is it possible,

the Americans were testing

their own cutting edge drone technology

against their own pilots?

Because if they're alien,

then it's a totally different thing.

If they were Chinese, say, they're enemy drones,

it's a ridiculous place to be testing 'em, right?

And they're not being used in anger, are they?

You know, it it, if it was the Chinese demonstrating

how far, technically, they were ahead of the Americans,

then it's odd that something filmed in 2000,

nearly 20 years ago,

hasn't moved on to the point where

it's now dominating the world.

So just a guess.

And then at that point, my skepticism says, well,

what's more likely?

Is that the Americans seeing their own technology

and the people recording it

don't have the clearance to know what they're looking at?

Which goes back to the military pilot spot

in the U-2 spy planes in the 60s.

I mean, the only reason the U-2 thing

was quickly declassified was that

the Americans had got a cutting edge aircraft

that the Russians hadn't even considered building.

And the only reason it was declassified

was that the Russians managed to shoot one down.

And they did, apparently,

they did something that the Americans hadn't considered.

The Americans had built a plane

that was out of missile range.

The Russians realized that to be flying that high,

it had to be very strong, but also very fragile.

So I can't remember whether it's the "Hunt for Zero Point"

or "Travels in Dreamland,"

but it's one of the books that talks about ufology

and cutting edge military secrets.

And apparently what the Russians did was that

they sent a whole salvo

of missiles off into the upper atmosphere at the same time,

knowing full well they wouldn't hit it.

But when these things detonated,

they set up such a shockwave that the plane disintegrated,

which is how come the pilot survived it.

And then at that point, suddenly all this UFO mystery about

what people on civilian and military radar

and what pilots were saying,

suddenly made a lot more sense.

But it also made it very clear that all these people

who've been reporting UFOs clearly did not have

a security clearance and therefore their best guess of

what they were seeing

was not that they were seeing American technology.

They were seeing something extraterrestrial,

because it seemed to be beyond their experience.

And I think that that resonates

with me with the drone things.

I think it's more likely that

they're earthbound than it is that they're extraterrestrial.

- But it's interesting what's happening

with the Hadron Collider.

That's kind of on the edge of kind

of cutting edge of physics.

And it's shown us that there might be other dimensions,

other universes side by side,

which could also explain these things

in terms of these UFOs,

these aliens possibly come from other dimensions.

And I talk with this a little bit

with Avi Loeb from Harvard.

- Oh, okay.

- You know, he says that would make

it easier for alien life

to be here if it's through other dimensions

and other realities.

- Yeah, so in fact, within the mainstream

of theoretical physics for the past several decades,

the prevailing paradigm is that

it is impossible to unify quantum mechanics and gravity

unless you work with extra spatial dimensions.

And of course we see only

three of them in our daily life,

but the idea is that

the others are curled

and we can't really detect them unless we

shoot particles at exceptionally high energies

that would probe these tiny scales.

And so that has been the foundation for string theory,

which has mathematical accomplishments,

but yet is not ready

to make predictions about the beginning of the universe.

Not what happened before the Big Bang

and what happens inside the black hole.

Of course if there are extra dimensions,

then the reality that we are familiar with

extends into them

and one can imagine life

in more than three special dimensions.

It will be far more diverse

and interesting in the sense that

when you drive a highway in extra dimensions, you know,

the chance of collisions is much smaller.

And there are many more opportunities

for degrees of freedom of

exercising your free will if we have it.

And altogether, I would expect life to be much richer.

- Wow, okay, and do you think,

possibly what we're seeing in terms of UFOs

and things like UAPs,

could that be kind of dimensions crossing over

into our reality somehow?

- We had our science

and technology for one century.

Quantum mechanics was discovered exactly a century ago.

And all the most sophisticated technologies

we currently employ such as the internet,

the artificial intelligence, and so forth,

rely on our understanding of quantum mechanics.

So one can imagine that the process

of learning is incomplete.

In fact, there are several major puzzles in modern physics.

What is most of the matter in the universe?

We call it dark matter, we don't know what it is,

what happens inside a black hole, and near the singularity,

we don't know what happens.

What happened before the big bang.

These are some of the examples,

but also we don't know whether we are alone

or whether there are other technological civilizations.

But one thing is clear,

that most stars form billions of years before the sun.

So if another civilization like ours existed,

the billions of years ago,

they had much more time

to develop their science and technology.

And it is possible that they would be able

to figure out if there are extra special dimensions

and take advantage of them

using quantum gravity engineers.

And what that means is that,

you know, if their technology

is able to reach our doorstep,

we would be at awe,

because it would represent something we don't possess.

We don't understand.

Just like a cave dweller coming to

a city like London or New York

and seeing all the technological gadgets there,

there would be a sense of religious awe,

and we won't fully understand what we are looking at,

especially if one is dealing with the effects

of quantum gravity that we have no clue about.

So definitely, as one way for us to realize

that we are not the smartest kid in the class

is by encountering those technological gadgets

that were produced by more advanced realizations.

And they may very well represent effects

of quantum gravity, extra dimensions,

things that we currently do not fully understand.

- When I was doing my undergrad in psychology

and I was really interested in consciousness and,

you know, I feel like the single greatest unsolved problem

of psychology, perhaps of the whole human race

is Chalmers' hard problem of consciousness.

And nobody can work out

where it comes from, what it is, what it's made of.

And I started to get this idea

that maybe it was much smaller

than we ever perceived it to be.

Maybe it was right down into individual particles,

if you like, or molecules.

And then once I started to consider that, I went, okay,

well, we've be looking at this the wrong way,

because macro large systems

are governed by classical physics.

Very, very small things are governed by quantum physics.

And once you started to look at things

that we would deem paranormal, like ghosts, you know,

things that can blip in and out of existence,

things that seem to behave strangely,

or other time, seems to behave strangely,

suddenly it started to make a bit more sense.

And I think over the years,

instead of coming away from that, I've come closer to it.

As science has started to progress,

we've started to potentially be able to show

that consciousness is individual or built up of a component

of individual particles.

And we know, you know, we've now proven entanglement,

what Einstein called spooky action at distance,

so that we know that things across vast distances

can still interact at the same time.

And so I think that for me,

although a lot of the paranormal can be explained in terms

of physics, it doesn't make it not paranormal.

It still is, but I think a lot of the strange things,

things that we would call magic or ghosts

or poltergeists are actually just the inherent strangeness

of quantum physics.

But then also you've got other paranormal phenomena,

which might be people's belief in things like cryptids

or, you know, creatures,

and that's kind of more into the sort of mythology area

and that sort of like paranormal, I guess, you know,

zoology essentially. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- And then also a lot of people have started

to class, do you know, like alien,

your ufology in with paranormal phenomena,

even though that's like, you know, quite a separate thing.

So it's a broad area.

But I think I've definitely,

I think, more kind of worked in the,

although the history of mythology

and the history of belief systems in and of themselves

as a psychologist, as a scientist,

it's more into the actual science of anomalous events.

Like how does, do you know,

how does something pass through a wall?

Or how do objects get thrown from a table

with no obvious force essentially?

Yeah, so a chunk of it to me is we know through,

like we were talking about there, about entanglement.

So is it that objects become entangled?

Also is it that something is able to enact a force upon it?

So if we were to show, right,

so you see these things that everyone has one now

where they're on your desk and it's magnets,

so you'll have like them spinning,

if you showed that to somebody 50 years ago,

they would be like, "That is black magic,"

'cause we didn't understand

how the electromagnetic fields worked.

And so just because it's an unseen force

doesn't mean that it's not there.

We've started to dig into particles

that we don't even know, didn't know existed,

so we got through into quarks and neutrinos

and things like that.

We're still trying to understand how certain particles,

and we've shown it scientifically,

can blip literally in and out of existence.

And, do you know, how can things not have mass?

A lot of the universe is made up of you like dark matter

and we still don't really understand what that is.

So a lot of it still looks like magic, do you know,

how do particles blip in and out of existence?

But we know that they do.

So is it possible,

if you had enough of these particles together

or something else that's governed by the same principles,

has the same components,

can it also blip in and out of existence?

- It is clear that something is missing

from quantum mechanics because,

since the date was conceived,

we didn't have an intuitive understanding

of what it means,

how a wave function collapses,

whether there are many realities at once.

And somehow we managed

by doing an experiment to go into one of them.

It's quite possible that

our lack of understanding

of quantum mechanics at a deep level

is because it doesn't incorporate gravity.

And once gravity and quantum mechanics

would be unified in a predictive theory,

it will give answers

to those questions as to what reality truly is.

- I mean, this is very much the drive

of the 20th century actually.

You know, the optimism of the turn of the 20th century

was very much, you know,

post-enlightenment, we can fix all this stuff.

And obviously Einstein comes along

and just blows it out the water,

then quantum physics comes along, blows it up.

And actually we seem to be getting further

than we ever were to a unified kind of understanding.

We're getting deeper and deeper

and that's great, and we're learning.

But in my view, you know, certain, you know,

breaking up little particles hasn't brought us any closer

to any real understanding.

And I personally don't think it will,

because you're dealing with the material realm.

There's only gonna be, you know,

or whatever, just 'cause of all particles, you know,

more universes, I don't know.

It doesn't make a lot of difference to me, to be honest.

- If you talk about consciousness,

as Evelyn kind of talks about,

as almost a physical particle-based thing,

then why not?

Why could not AI

either control particles

in a way to become conscious?

- Yeah, I guess if you go

for that materialistic reductionist viewpoint of life

in the universe, absolutely.

Yeah, that fits in with that.

But what I'm saying, I guess,

what religious people would say

is that there's more to us than just flesh and blood.

There's something else.

- [Guy] Yeah.

- I call that the divine spark.

- When people say to me, you know,

"You're religious, do you believe in God?"

I believe that we were created.

And one thing that really sticks in my mind is

the two scientists that discovered DNA.

I've forgotten the name of one scientist,

but I think he called... Crick.

- Crick, Yeah. - Crick and Watson, yeah.

- Yeah, well, Crick said,

I think it was Crick, could've been Watson,

but he said that, first of all,

the DNA double helix actually turns in everybody's body.

They all turn in exactly the same way.

And he also said, which blew my mind,

the DNA double helix strand wasn't created.

It was engineered.

- Wow. - And to me,

that blows my mind,

'cause I think here's the guy who discovered it,

very, very, you know, intelligent people.

You know, they're saying that it was engineered,

and I really believe that we were created by

an alien race, could be us in the future.

I don't know.

And I think they have created us,

or they've messed with our DNA.

And the fact that Crick and Watson actually said that,

we only use a tiny amount of the DNA,

that's a tiny amount that's switched on, as is our brain.

We only use a tiny percentage of our brain.

So can you imagine

what would happen if our DNA suddenly was switched on

or, you know, our brain, all of it was switched on.

I mean, it just to me blows my mind, literally.

(light crackling)

- I mean, it's another theory

that no one's talked about, really.

And it's by one of my heroes, Arthur C. Clarke,

who was one of the first serious scientists

to look at unexplained phenomena,

this brilliant TV show in the 70s.

He suggested that paranormal phenomena, especially ghosts,

he was more aiming at,

but it could be also put towards UFOs and things like that,

things we see in the sky,

is that the eye and the brain are kind of separate.

And so what we're visualizing comes through a lens

and it's interpreted by the brain, okay?

So what we see comes through the lens

and is interpreted by the brain.

What he's suggesting is that ghosts,

paranormal phenomena, basically,

well, it's the brain sending out an image to the lens.

So what we are actually perceiving comes

from the brain, from stored memory.

We don't consciously aware of it happening,

but it's like a trip in the brain,

so it's putting out a signal what we should see.

So it's like an hallucination effectively.

- Yeah. Okay.

- So that's another theory which,

it could be explored, I think.

(typewriter typing)

Well, it's the CE-5,

"Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind" movement,

which Dr. Steven Greer has been promoting,

which says that, you know,

we can all contact, (chuckles)

that sounds crazy, doesn't it?

We can all contact these aliens

just by using our own consciousness through meditation,

getting together, meditating together,

and you can put out the image in your mind

of you directing a, say,

a UFO to come and visit you.

And, you know, there are some cases documented on film

where allegedly this has happened,

which ties into this kind of psychic internet thing

that we've got access to,

other life forms in the universe have got access to

and that's how we're communicating with them.

(light crackling)

- One of the experiments that we had performed

to see whether or not we could summon something

within the forest happened on the 8th of June, 1998,

at precisely 10:15 PM at night.

And we did what we considered then was,

and we didn't really know much about it,

was a CE-5 initiative, and it worked. (chuckles)

(Mark chuckles)

We summoned A UFO.

- [Mark] So that was through, basically,

sort of meditation, is that right?

- That was, a week prior to our visit to the forest,

because, you know, it takes us roughly

around about two hours to get

from where we are in Bedfordshire to Suffolk.

This was in the preceding months

and years of investigation within this area

of high strangeness.

And so we had performed what they call a psychic experiment.

And it came about by the idea

from Karen Carpenter's song, "Calling Occupants."

And I thought, "I wonder if that's possible."

- Excellent. - And, you know,

as God is my witness,

that's exactly what happened on the 8th of June, 1998.

And it's an experience that I will never forget.

And people say, well, you know, I want evidence.

Well, we agree that whatever forces were responsible,

we wouldn't take any filming equipment.

It was to be a very personal experience.

But I must say here that even if I had,

let's just consider a piece of the Roswell craft,

and I show that on the screen to people

and say, I've got the evidence, no one would believe it.

I think when you're dealing with a UFO subject at large,

we have to look at several components, key components.

Not just the nuts and bolts physical structure

of these objects, which we consider them to be,

which in most cases they are,

but also the other area as well, with consciousness.

So that was a really incredible event that occurred.

And the UFO that appeared

was not like your classic flying saucer or triangular craft.

It was very much like a pyramidal shaped device

with a gap and a circular undercarriage high

above these trees that just appeared.

There was an incredible light source coming from

within the core of the pyramidical device

and the circular appendage that bad

a bank of blue light around it,

one moved one way, the other moved the other.

So it was like a witch's hat, but the rim was separated.

That was incredible.

And I feel that, looking into the area of Rendlesham,

not just in Rendlesham,

but other areas around the world,

Skinwalker Ranch Ranch in Utah,

Benton, up north.

We wanted to try

and find out what it was about these areas that seemed

to promote a lot of UFO activity

or paranormal activity, which also seems to follow

when UFOs or they've broken through

to this matrix on some level.

What is it about these places?

So certainly in rural, you know, locations,

there are levels of mysteries that confound us.

On one event, we had a very disturbing thing happen to us

where we would lay a blanket down

through our central observation area,

which was not far from Capel Green, which is a big field.

That's where the initial contact had occurred

with the summiting of the UFO.

But someone had left on the blanket when we'd gone off

for a few minutes,

a dead rat and a dead rabbit on the blanket

from head to tail in a complete circle.

And we knew when we'd come back,

only after 10 minutes,

that someone, or maybe something had left it there

as some kind of symbolism.

And that is very strange. (chuckles)

- I mean, I've been trolling through the

US Government archives this week.

- Yeah, yeah. - So much stuff

the CIA investigated, remote viewing,

astral protections, this is all,

the evidence is all there

for people to find out.

These things are real.

The CIA tested it, it works. They used it.

There's things that can't be explained.

How does a spy in America access

a place in Russia just by lying down,

going into meditative states,

but then accessing information that's been verified

if it's correct, how is that explained?

- They can, you know?

- And this is the CIA.

It's not some guy from YouTube, you know?

- I know we keep going on about quantum entanglement,

but there's parallels, isn't there?

How do you, remote viewing,

you can see something that's happening.

How does an atom there,

you know, hundreds of miles away affect an atom there?

- And also, is it a thing where when you die,

you've gotta decompose?

Is it that, if consciousness is somehow

in individual particles, they sort of spread out,

obviously all energy is reused in universe

and it spreads out.

Is it that enough of it has to get back together

for it to work?

In the same way that a single magnet only

has very little power,

but if you put loads of them together,

suddenly we have this great interaction and alteration.

So that might be also one of the theories,

is that there has to be enough of it together

for something to happen.

- Then I always think that

what makes humans special is the power of our mind.

We can control our minds.

We can create our own, you know, our own world.

I guess they'd be talking about the Illuminati

or whatever you wanna call it.

They don't want people to have that power,

that they can actually make their own futures by, you know,

impressing their thoughts on the world,

their actions, something positive.

So, I mean, I genuinely believe that we can do that.

And that is empowering, that's democratic,

that's access to anyone.

And, you know, it's called,

some people call it the mental internet, the psychic ether.

We can all tap into it.

And this kind of goes into

something we've talked about before, remote viewing.

- Yeah.

- You know, being able to access this psychic internet

to, you know, find out more about reality,

what it really is,

and that somehow it involves consciousness

and kind of, consciousness is separate from the brain,

separate from the body, and it's out there.

And by being out there, we can communicate,

tap into the mental internet, gain knowledge.

- You know, I do think, to a degree, yeah,

if people really, if people were truly aware

of their innate abilities,

telepathy, ESP, self-healing,

it would literally change the world,

'cause they would realize they didn't need to look up

to certain people or obey certain people.

I've seen some miraculous things.

I've been very blessed in my,

I've seen some miraculous things in my life,

but I know this more to life than

just this physical existence that we have here.

- Go back to the down spacecraft thing

and consciousness, what a lot of people have said,

they've investigated downed UFOs, allegedly,

is that they can't be piloted physically.

There's some mental thing to it.

The CIA and the KGB

were both investigating psychic powers,

'cause they wanted to be able to power these craft,

which they couldn't physically do.

And then they were convinced

they could only be powered by some sort of mental force,

which is why they, you know,

enlisted the likes of Uri Geller,

who was tested by the CIA,

was found to have these powers.

They were using those powers,

'cause they wanted to, you know,

to power these spacecraft.

- My understanding, if I may,

is that we are all vessels for consciousness,

like your mobile phone.

And I give a good example here,

because it starts off with a blank canvas

that's filled in with information.

And I think that perhaps it's possible that all

of us are interlinked into

a huge connection of consciousness.

And each experience that we're going through in this life

is a recording.

And perhaps that we are part of something much larger

where we're all trying to discover more about ourselves

through the source of where we've originated from.

It is a theory, nonetheless,

but it does appear that other intelligences

are very much interested in how we operate as human beings.

Because if we look at the Grays, for instance,

and taking an example here, they all seem to be clones.

I'm not gonna get into the argument

of AI technology or anything like that.

I'm not disputing that.

But they all,

why are they interested in us

as a reproductive species

that they themselves apparently cannot reproduce?

So I think that when we're looking into the phenomena,

not just the nuts and bolts version,

I think the system that we service,

albeit pains to reveal to the public,

yes, ladies and gentlemen, we have UFOs,

and we even have their pilots on deep freeze.

But we've got a problem (chuckles)

because this force comes in

and it can do what it wants to,

and then goes out again as leaving hardly any evidence.

And I think that will freak a lot of people out.

Those that aren't like yourself

and many other good folk out there with some kind of level

of understanding, and a curious mind,

I think that that is something, I think,

the system will be paved to reveal to the public.

Their mind, I mean, the brain is merely an amazing organism,

which allows the consciousness to flow through and record.

And it does appear that thought generates

and creates our reality.

So whether or not these other species,

wherever they're coming from, wherever they are,

are able to project themselves into our reality by creating

or, you know, through belief or a determination.

So we can see that through consciousness plays

an important part,

because everything around us has been created by the mind.

And I think now what's happening is that

because these revelations are coming into place,

this is exciting,

because it's informing all of the public

that we have been lied to.

And if it is not just about UFO technology or UFO sightings

or this big secret that's been covered up,

for God knows how many years, decades,

but also about other areas.

So I think we're beginning to realize

that we are more than just flesh

and blood creatures with a sell-by date

that expires, and that's it, consciousness extinguished.

I think we're discovering that we're part of a much bigger

and an amazing connection outside

of this physical realm that we currently inhabit.

(typewriter typing) (ominous music)

(light crackling)

- You mentioned that there's a wave

of UFO activity associated with collapse in the economy.

What is the reason for that?

- During the Black Plague, which was in the 14th century,

when you go and look through the records about

the Black Plague and the books about the Black Plague,

they keep referring

to mysterious atmospheric phenomena occurring

during the Black Plague.

And they're describing UFO sightings,

how all these poor people were dying.

There were all these mysterious things were buzzing

around the skies of Europe.

And it took them a long time to figure out

that the flee was bringing them to Black Plague.

But I think every time the human race is in jeopardy

in any fashion, whether it's economically

or with militarily, we start seeing UFOs all over the place.

- Possibly the US Government, other governments,

the Five Eyes countries,

they're covering something up,

because I don't think they would cover up the fact

that there's alien life in another planet,

because we're kinda used to that.

We've been conditioned to that, "Star Trek,".

"Star War," et cetera.

- Yeah, yeah. - We could deal with that.

I think the truth is something far weirder.

This is just my personal opinion on

what I've researched and experienced.

I think it's something far weirder

and that's why they wanna keep a lid on it,

because it would just blow our minds.

If it was

other dimensions, if it was demons,

if it was something far weirder than

life forms like ourselves,

that's possibly why they're keeping it secret.

(light crackling)

Maybe they can only access the divine through humanity.

- [Guy] Yeah.

- The only way to God is through us, the creator.

(light crackling)

- The UAPs, I did one on the UAPs

and I think the UAPs are manmade.

I think the whole thing's a scam.

I don't think they're alien at all.

- [Mark] No.

- I think it's manmade technology

that they are passing off as extraterrestrial technology,

as another blind, smoke and mirrors.

- They want us to believe in aliens to keep us,

you know, distract us.

- Yeah, from the reality that

it's Chinese drones, it's whatever.

- Yeah. - You know?

- But when you look at all these reports

and sightings, it does make you think,

and the other thing is,

why is the subject not on the school curriculum?

- Well, maybe it... Why is it not?

I think it is in the States.

- [Mark] Wow, impressive.

But yeah, so all I'm trying to do is educate people.

I can't give any answers,

but it is as, I think, as Gordon Craig said,

it is one of the greatest phenomena of modern day times.

Whether you are a skeptic or not,

it is still the greatest phenomena of modern day times.

And it is, isn't it?

- It is. - Because the bloody

things keep coming through. (chuckling)

They do, don't they?

- Yeah. - Yeah. And that's it.

- [Mark] So in your opinion,

who knows the truth about

what these things are, does anyone?

- It's a difficult question.

I say it's difficult to answer, rather,

but one would presume that,

given the amount of finances available

to governments and the intelligence,

super intelligence of scientists,

one would've thought they'd have come up

with some ideas on this.

And if they have come up with the ideas,

what it is and where it comes from,

well, I can tell you one thing,

that you and I aren't gonna know,

because it would cause too much disruption.

It would actually, so on the one hand, yes,

I want to get the messages across.

Yes, like you, I like discovery.

I'd like us to all lay our cards on the table,

but in reality, it will not happen.

- Whoever the power, I think it's an earthly power.

So governments, et cetera.

Maybe the Illuminati, maybe not,

but a kind of global conspiracy

to try and control the human race.

- [Mark] Okay.

- Really into, I mean, some of the recent things

that have happened, COVID, for example,

the move away from cash into like digital money.

- Global ID, I guess?

- Yeah. - Digital ID.

- Or try setting us up to that point where we can,

or they can control us.

- So how does that work then?

So doesn't this involve holograms convincing us

that the world is coming to an end,

that the second coming of Jesus Christ is coming?

So they're gonna project these holograms

of Christ coming down from the clouds,

bit like an alien on a spaceship.

- [Guy] Yeah.

- So people believe it's the end of the world,

so that then they can be controlled.

Is that what we're saying, through fear?

- I believe so, yeah.

- Okay. - It sounds insane.

- Project Blue Beam has been around for many years in terms

of rumors circulating on the internet.

And, you know,

like all good conspiracy theories,

it probably does have a few roots in reality,

but probably not in the way that most people think.

Simply put, Project Blue Beam is the idea that

through a combination of maybe

holographic projection technology,

Hollywood special effects

and government or deep state spin

and manipulation, you could create a false narrative.

And the two examples that've been given are,

you could create basically a false flag alien invasion

or a false flag Second Coming.

And what this would then do, it would, rather like,

some people say, well,

9/11 led to the introduction to the Patriot Act

and big state,

deep state coming in and maybe taking

some rights and freedoms that we previously had

and dressing this up in the flag

and dressing it up as national interest

and the need for unity

and the very extreme circumstances which,

temporarily of course,

mitigate for the setting aside

of normal checks and balances and processes.

And so this is Project Blue Beam,

the idea that you could fake an alien invasion, for example,

and then use it to manipulate populations

and the New World Order takes over.

I don't, frankly, believe it as told, but self-evidently,

all these things in their separate components do exist.

There is holographic projection.

We don't yet know how good it is,

because a lot of that's classified,

but one hears rumors of the so-called ghost gun

that can create very realistic

portrayals of things.

And of course, we all know spin exists in government.

And of course we've seen, during COVID,

the way in which entire populations

are manipulated, scared,

I mean, fear is the key.

- Christ is a kind of universal,

like trope almost, that everyone understands it.

And I think people,

if they're controlled,

to a certain extent, would quite like to believe in that,

and that everyone knows the name Jesus, so.

- [Mark] Okay, so it's a bit like an alien invasion,

but with Jesus coming down from the clouds?

- Yeah. - To put his all into fear.

- I think it will come in small drabs.

I think we're gonna hear a lot more about

what people are revealing.

But again, it won't be enough to convince the masses,

because I don't think anything will today,

unless they did present themselves

in our skies for all to see.

And even then, people will say, oh,

it's holographic technology.

It's a faked alien invasion.

So you can see how much this up here,

we have to try

and keep it grounded and not running off

with all these other people with their thoughts

and so-called conspiracies.

Not everything is a conspiracy.

I do believe that certain whistleblowers

are telling the truth.

They have nothing to lose.

Not all of them, but certainly a lot of them.

So it is interesting to see where this is going

to lead us in terms of revelation.

- The main reasons I'd be skeptical.

First of all, David Grusch's claims aren't that new.

And if you look into the history of ufology,

there are certain watershed moments

when apparently the most

defining case was in front of us

and we could do something about it.

And so for example,

the Washington over-flights of the 1950s,

definitely claims about Roswell.

There are other, the alien autopsy movie

that some people believed in the mid 90s.

They've all fallen apart or just disappeared.

- This is the quest, I'm on a quest,

because I passionately believe that

there is something unexplained.

There's more to life than material reality and atoms.

There's something else.

And I think that something else

could be used for the benefit of humankind

and not just for the few, not just for the rich,

not just for the US military.

- What I don't understand is, you know,

are they covering it up because they don't want to scare,

you know, what would be more scary?

Telling people that angels and demons exist.

- I said this, we've got something that they need.

- [Guy] Hmm.

- Maybe that's it. Maybe it's our souls.

- Seriously, I did investigate

some quite a few murders and...

But this fascinates me because I know this,

here we are talking about something like this

and we want answers, you know?

And I just think,

are we ever gonna get those answers?

And in a way, if we did get the answers,

would that be actually what we want?

Think about it, would we?

We'd probably be change people, wouldn't we?

- We've got the convergence, there's many things.

We've got the advancement of AI,

we've got the Hadron Collider about

to explore different dimensions.

We've got disclosure in America.

These are massive things all coming together

at the same time.

Is it coincidence?

(light crackling)

So maybe what's visiting us is not actually alive.

It's AI.

- AI future humans.

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

♪ Searching for the divine ♪

♪ I'm gonna make it mine ♪

♪ I'm gonna fly so free ♪

♪ Yeah, I'm searching for the divine ♪

♪ I'm gonna make it mine ♪

♪ I'm gonna fly so free ♪

♪ Fly so free ♪

(energetic music)