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[ambient music playing]
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[Jeff] Sunday, July 4th.
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00:01:01,778 --> 00:01:03,997
According to
the Max Fink transcript,
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00:01:04,172 --> 00:01:07,000
Los Angeles private
investigator John O'Grady,
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00:01:07,175 --> 00:01:09,873
who'd worked for Jim since 1968,
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00:01:10,047 --> 00:01:15,705
arrived in Paris 48 hours before
Doors manager Bill Siddons.
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00:01:15,879 --> 00:01:17,446
Monday, July 5th.
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00:01:17,620 --> 00:01:20,536
Two of England's
major rock newspapers
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00:01:20,710 --> 00:01:23,452
called Elektra Records'
offices in London,
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00:01:23,626 --> 00:01:26,977
wanting to know
if Jim really was dead.
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00:01:30,415 --> 00:01:34,202
Clive Selwood called
Elektra's offices in France,
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00:01:34,376 --> 00:01:38,423
but Elektra France hadn't
even known Jim was in Paris,
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00:01:38,597 --> 00:01:40,904
- let alone deceased.
- [phone ringing]
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00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,735
Selwood also phoned
the Paris police
15
00:01:45,909 --> 00:01:48,477
and the American embassy
in France,
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00:01:48,651 --> 00:01:53,134
but apparently neither had been
contacted by any French morgue.
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00:01:54,222 --> 00:01:55,962
The plot thickened.
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00:01:56,137 --> 00:01:59,009
Selwood, who later went
on the record with his belief
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00:01:59,183 --> 00:02:01,881
that Jim faked his death,
called Siddons
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00:02:02,055 --> 00:02:04,710
at 4:30 a.m. Los Angeles time.
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00:02:05,276 --> 00:02:07,148
Siddons brushed Selwood off
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00:02:07,322 --> 00:02:11,369
because Jim had "died"
a number of times in the press.
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00:02:11,891 --> 00:02:14,633
Siddons attempted to sleep,
but when he couldn't,
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00:02:14,807 --> 00:02:19,638
he allegedly phoned Jim's flat
around 2 p.m. Paris time.
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00:02:19,812 --> 00:02:21,423
No one answered.
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00:02:21,597 --> 00:02:24,991
He went back to bed
and later redialed Jim's number.
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00:02:25,166 --> 00:02:29,518
Siddons maintained,
on that attempt,
Pam answered the phone.
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00:02:29,692 --> 00:02:33,304
Some sources have Pam
telling Siddons Jim wasn't dead,
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00:02:33,478 --> 00:02:36,742
while others claim
she told Siddons Jim had died.
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00:02:36,916 --> 00:02:41,051
In both scenarios, Pam
apparently broke down in tears.
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00:02:41,225 --> 00:02:45,882
Siddons told Pam
he'd be on the next flight
from L.A. to Paris.
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00:02:46,056 --> 00:02:51,017
He arrived Tuesday, July 6th,
at 6:30 a.m. Paris time.
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00:02:51,192 --> 00:02:55,631
He got coffee and waited until
9 a.m. to knock on Pam's door.
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00:02:56,284 --> 00:03:00,766
Siddons said he was met by Pam
and Jim's personal assistant,
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00:03:00,940 --> 00:03:02,899
who's remained
a shadowy presence
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00:03:03,073 --> 00:03:05,380
over the last half century.
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00:03:05,554 --> 00:03:08,774
Her name was Robyn Wurtele,
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00:03:08,948 --> 00:03:14,693
and she possessed
the mind-boggling details
I had chased for decades.
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00:03:21,657 --> 00:03:24,660
[haunting music playing]
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00:03:30,405 --> 00:03:34,757
[Jeff] Robyn seemed
desperate to alleviate
her albatross necklace,
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00:03:34,931 --> 00:03:39,196
which she did by giving answers
in the form of cryptic hints,
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including this mind bomb.
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00:03:41,807 --> 00:03:45,985
Quote, "At one point,
Pam had Max draw up a document
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00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:48,466
that made me power of attorney
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00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,426
in the event that anything
happened to her."
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00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,776
If this were a game of Clue,
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00:03:53,950 --> 00:03:58,259
the main suspect
would be Miss Wurtele
in the study with the signature,
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00:03:58,433 --> 00:04:00,696
the opposite of murder.
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00:04:02,132 --> 00:04:05,527
I'd been trying to reach
Robyn since 1996.
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00:04:06,223 --> 00:04:09,226
That search became its own
two-decade-long odyssey.
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00:04:10,140 --> 00:04:13,448
Fortunately, the 20-year
benchmark proved fruitful,
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00:04:13,622 --> 00:04:17,843
especially after hearing Robyn
tell me things like, quote,
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00:04:18,017 --> 00:04:22,065
"Jim went off and did his thing,
and we went to Sausalito,"
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00:04:22,239 --> 00:04:26,504
or, quote, "He had changed
his whole way of thinking."
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00:04:26,678 --> 00:04:31,683
Robyn, in 2016,
paved my way to Frank X.
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00:04:39,996 --> 00:04:42,303
Robyn agreed
to appear on-camera,
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00:04:42,477 --> 00:04:45,044
but only in her sunglasses.
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00:04:45,218 --> 00:04:49,135
She admitted she knows far more
about Jim's alleged death,
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00:04:49,310 --> 00:04:50,963
and told me, quote,
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00:04:51,137 --> 00:04:53,705
"If he asked me
not to say anything to you,
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00:04:53,879 --> 00:04:56,621
then I can't
say anything, can I?"
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00:04:56,795 --> 00:05:00,321
My jaw needed to be
removed from the floor.
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00:05:02,366 --> 00:05:05,238
I asked Robyn
if Jim faked his death.
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00:05:05,413 --> 00:05:09,939
She replied, "That's the secret
I'm keeping to myself."
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00:05:10,113 --> 00:05:13,682
So I asked if she helped Jim
fake his death,
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00:05:13,856 --> 00:05:17,163
and she told me she was hired
to order furniture,
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00:05:17,338 --> 00:05:19,601
which never happened.
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00:05:19,775 --> 00:05:24,562
Robyn kindly gave me
a collection of
never-before-seen color slides
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00:05:24,736 --> 00:05:30,612
which show she and Pam giving
Jim and Pam's dog, Sage,
a bath in Sausalito.
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00:05:30,786 --> 00:05:34,311
The slides are stamped
"August 1972,"
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13 months after
Jim's reported death.
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When I pressed her about Jim,
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00:05:40,622 --> 00:05:44,713
Robyn said he was coming for
dinner when he "disappeared."
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00:05:44,887 --> 00:05:46,976
And in lieu
of a formal interview,
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she provided, in her own voice,
this quote by Oscar Wilde.
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[Robyn] None knew so well as I
For he who lives
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More lives than one
More deaths than one must die.
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[Jeff] Robyn continued
to blow my mind.
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00:06:03,514 --> 00:06:07,126
She even said, "You're so
very close now, Jeff."
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00:06:07,300 --> 00:06:10,347
I replied, "You mean
finishing the film
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00:06:10,521 --> 00:06:13,437
or proving that Jim
faked his death?"
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She laughed a nervous laugh.
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[slow electronic music playing]
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I couldn't wait to get home
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and take a closer look
at the slides Robyn gave me.
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Here is the shot of Robyn,
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which I had enlarged
by a professional photo lab.
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Blowing up
the vintage color slide
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that Ms. Wurtele
had gifted to me
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revealed something fascinating
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reflected in the left lens
of her sunglasses.
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The image is fuzzy,
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00:07:02,399 --> 00:07:07,709
but there appear to be
two distinct human figures
standing side by side,
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00:07:07,883 --> 00:07:10,407
a taller male with long hair
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00:07:10,581 --> 00:07:15,107
next to a shorter female,
also with long hair.
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When I asked Robyn
about the figures reflected
in her sunglasses
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in the summer of 1972,
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she flatly said, "I never should
have given you those slides."
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Long convinced of a cover-up,
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00:07:33,822 --> 00:07:36,215
I was reminded
of another thing she told me
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regarding Bill Siddons' claim
that Jim's coffin was sealed.
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Quote, "That was Bill's
one mistake, wasn't it?"
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Remember how a number of
Morrison insiders were friendly
with Frank X on Facebook?
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Hervé Muller was one of Jim's
few confidants in Paris.
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00:07:59,195 --> 00:08:02,981
For nearly five years,
I did not receive a reply
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00:08:03,155 --> 00:08:06,332
to my private Facebook
messages to Hervé.
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00:08:06,507 --> 00:08:09,553
Finally, I asked Frank if he'd
put in a good word for me,
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00:08:09,727 --> 00:08:13,731
and he replied, quote,
"I'll see what I can do."
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00:08:13,905 --> 00:08:16,952
Then, as if Frank
had snapped his fingers,
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Hervé messaged me the next day.
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[Jeff laughs]
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And then I found out you were
Facebook friends with Hervé--
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I don't know
if it's pronounced "Muller."
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00:08:29,225 --> 00:08:31,009
- Muller.
- Muller, right?
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00:08:31,183 --> 00:08:33,011
- Who knew Jim in Paris.
- Right.
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00:08:33,185 --> 00:08:35,361
And I saw where he said,
"Oh, I miss you so much,"
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00:08:35,536 --> 00:08:36,972
and you said,
"Oh, I miss you too,"
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00:08:37,146 --> 00:08:38,364
and I put two and two together,
and I thought,
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"These guys are--
That must be Jim--"
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We're really like--
Like soul brothers.
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00:08:58,907 --> 00:09:01,474
I was haunted
by Robyn's revelations
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00:09:01,649 --> 00:09:04,129
about Jim's brief time in Paris,
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00:09:04,303 --> 00:09:07,785
and I remained convinced
she and a few others,
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00:09:07,959 --> 00:09:09,700
possibly including Hervé,
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00:09:09,874 --> 00:09:12,137
helped Jim pull the Rimbaud.
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00:09:13,922 --> 00:09:15,880
She told me, quote,
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00:09:16,054 --> 00:09:19,797
"He hadn't broken up with Pam.
He was planning the next step.
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00:09:19,971 --> 00:09:21,973
He and Pam had a lovely parting,
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00:09:22,147 --> 00:09:25,760
and what Jim decided to do
after that was up to him."
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00:09:28,719 --> 00:09:31,592
[in French]
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00:09:44,909 --> 00:09:49,958
I think he actually
wanted to get back
into some serious writing.
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00:09:50,132 --> 00:09:53,614
And maybe he'd outgrown--
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00:09:53,788 --> 00:09:55,877
Maybe the Doors thing
had been enough,
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00:09:56,051 --> 00:09:59,054
and whether he was
100 percent done,
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00:09:59,228 --> 00:10:02,971
I think not, but I think
he just needed a break.
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00:10:04,146 --> 00:10:07,105
I know he wanted to go to Paris.
I know he loved Paris.
137
00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:12,023
I know that that was where he
could really feel like he could
be free and be a poet.
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00:10:12,197 --> 00:10:17,681
It was like he transcended
into all the poets
that had ever lived in Paris,
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00:10:17,855 --> 00:10:21,554
and he could
see himself in that--
Those cafés and things.
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00:10:21,729 --> 00:10:24,209
That was his feeling.
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00:10:24,383 --> 00:10:29,562
He could really relate to that.
He could feel connected.
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00:10:30,128 --> 00:10:35,003
It is possible that
he really did think
he could get clean and dry
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00:10:35,177 --> 00:10:37,396
and be a poet
when he went to Paris.
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00:10:37,570 --> 00:10:40,530
You know, I heard
"Oh, you know, Jim's really
getting it together in Paris.
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00:10:40,704 --> 00:10:44,055
You know, he's slimmed down
and looking good again."
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00:10:44,229 --> 00:10:48,407
[Jeff] Had Jim engaged
the final phase
of his ten-year plan?
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00:10:48,581 --> 00:10:51,497
[in French]
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00:11:21,266 --> 00:11:22,920
♪ Bird of prey ♪
149
00:11:23,616 --> 00:11:26,010
♪ Flying high ♪
150
00:11:26,184 --> 00:11:28,186
♪ Flying high ♪
151
00:11:29,753 --> 00:11:32,234
♪ Am I going to die? ♪
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00:11:41,983 --> 00:11:45,551
[Jeff] These are said to be
the last photos of Jim.
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00:11:45,726 --> 00:11:51,557
They're from a day trip
to Saint-Leu-d'Esserent
on June 28th, 1971,
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00:11:51,732 --> 00:11:55,997
where Jim's Super 8 film camera
made a final public appearance.
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00:11:56,867 --> 00:11:59,348
The pictures were taken
by Alain Ronay,
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00:11:59,522 --> 00:12:02,786
Jim's closest friend
from his UCLA days,
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00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,398
who lived with him in Paris
during that month of June.
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00:12:07,922 --> 00:12:10,620
According to
the official account,
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00:12:10,794 --> 00:12:13,710
four days later,
on Friday, July 2nd,
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00:12:13,884 --> 00:12:17,714
Alain claimed Jim was ill
with hiccups and spasms.
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00:12:19,281 --> 00:12:21,979
While the two
were seated at a café,
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00:12:22,153 --> 00:12:26,244
Ronay claimed he saw
a death mask on Jim's face.
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00:12:26,810 --> 00:12:29,465
This scenario is
contradicted by Wurtele,
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00:12:29,639 --> 00:12:31,336
who told me, verbatim,
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00:12:31,510 --> 00:12:34,731
"Jim was no alcoholic
when I knew him in Paris,
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00:12:34,905 --> 00:12:36,777
and Pam was no junkie."
167
00:12:37,342 --> 00:12:40,781
Robyn claimed Jim
was not sick on his last day.
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00:12:40,955 --> 00:12:42,957
She said Ronay lied.
169
00:12:43,131 --> 00:12:45,698
As per Ronay's
on-the-record account,
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00:12:45,873 --> 00:12:48,789
he left Jim to meet
Agnès Varda for dinner.
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00:12:49,267 --> 00:12:51,574
As for what really
happened in Paris,
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00:12:51,748 --> 00:12:54,446
an exasperated Robyn
said, quote,
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00:12:54,620 --> 00:12:57,319
"I hope you can appreciate
the position I'm in."
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00:12:58,363 --> 00:13:00,801
Pam stated she and Jim
went to dinner
175
00:13:00,975 --> 00:13:03,194
and a late-night showing
of the movie Pursued.
176
00:13:03,368 --> 00:13:06,632
[opening theme
from Pursued playing]
177
00:13:06,807 --> 00:13:09,418
They returned to their flat
around 1 a.m.,
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00:13:09,592 --> 00:13:11,550
where Jim projected home movies.
179
00:13:11,724 --> 00:13:14,684
They listened to music,
including Doors albums,
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00:13:14,858 --> 00:13:17,643
and fell asleep around 2:30 a.m.
181
00:13:17,818 --> 00:13:22,779
Around 4 a.m., Pam said
she woke to find Jim
having difficulty breathing.
182
00:13:22,953 --> 00:13:24,607
In one version of her story,
183
00:13:24,781 --> 00:13:27,697
she claimed she'd recently
contacted a Paris doctor
184
00:13:27,871 --> 00:13:30,047
who prescribed
asthma medication for Jim.
185
00:13:30,221 --> 00:13:32,397
That was contradicted
by Andy Morrison,
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00:13:32,571 --> 00:13:36,749
who told me he had
no recollection of Jim
ever having asthma,
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00:13:36,924 --> 00:13:41,711
and there's no record
of the doctor, pharmacy
or prescription.
188
00:13:41,885 --> 00:13:44,018
Pam stated she slapped Jim awake
189
00:13:44,192 --> 00:13:47,412
and he vomited a small amount
of blood into a saucepan.
190
00:13:48,370 --> 00:13:52,374
Worried, she offered to call
a doctor, but Jim declined.
191
00:13:52,548 --> 00:13:56,030
He stated he was feeling better
and wanted to take a bath.
192
00:13:56,639 --> 00:13:57,945
Pam went back to sleep
193
00:13:58,119 --> 00:13:59,947
while Jim remained
in the bathroom.
194
00:14:00,121 --> 00:14:02,819
She said she rose
the next morning around 8 a.m.
195
00:14:02,993 --> 00:14:05,604
to discover him unconscious
in the bathtub,
196
00:14:05,778 --> 00:14:09,695
which, according
to various accounts,
was tinged pink with blood.
197
00:14:10,696 --> 00:14:13,612
Around 8:30 a.m.,
Pam called Agnès Varda,
198
00:14:13,786 --> 00:14:16,659
an acquaintance she knew
through Jim and Ronay.
199
00:14:16,833 --> 00:14:18,748
Five men from the fire brigade,
200
00:14:18,922 --> 00:14:21,229
including Lieutenant
Alain Raisson,
201
00:14:21,403 --> 00:14:23,840
presumably pulled the body
from the bath
202
00:14:24,014 --> 00:14:25,668
and laid it in the bedroom,
203
00:14:25,842 --> 00:14:28,453
where their attempts to revive
were unsuccessful.
204
00:14:29,541 --> 00:14:32,022
So whose body was it?
205
00:14:32,196 --> 00:14:37,158
Robyn Wurtele told me
no police, fire brigade
or coffin were present.
206
00:14:37,332 --> 00:14:40,813
We turned the radio on
and it said, "Rock star
Jim Morrison's dead."
207
00:14:41,945 --> 00:14:44,382
I mean, that's when we heard it.
208
00:14:44,556 --> 00:14:49,866
We didn't even hear it
from anybody that we should
have heard it from, I think.
209
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,956
You know, it seems like
there was hardly any publicity.
They didn't have anything on TV.
210
00:14:53,130 --> 00:14:56,351
I mean, I thought-- I thought,
"Damn, how did I miss this?"
211
00:14:56,525 --> 00:15:01,922
Whoever's in charge
of handling deaths or
public relations about a death,
212
00:15:02,096 --> 00:15:04,489
they didn't handle it very well.
213
00:15:04,663 --> 00:15:08,580
And part of that is the Doors
and Elektra, I think.
214
00:15:08,754 --> 00:15:12,106
But having to find out
over the media,
215
00:15:13,585 --> 00:15:16,066
where they could have
called my parents up.
216
00:15:16,893 --> 00:15:18,634
I had watched the circuses
217
00:15:18,808 --> 00:15:22,638
surrounding the deaths
of Joplin and Jimi Hendrix
218
00:15:22,812 --> 00:15:25,989
and decided that
we could not let this happen.
219
00:15:26,163 --> 00:15:29,993
I figured we had 48 hours
to get ahold of it.
220
00:15:30,167 --> 00:15:35,259
And there were rumors:
"He's dead," "he's not dead."
We just let it all simmer down.
221
00:15:35,433 --> 00:15:39,263
[Jeff] Do you recall your
reaction when you learned
he had allegedly died?
222
00:15:39,437 --> 00:15:41,613
Were you shocked?
Or what was your reaction?
223
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:47,837
No. It is possible
that he really did think
he could get clean and dry
224
00:15:48,011 --> 00:15:50,318
and be a poet
when he went to Paris.
225
00:15:50,492 --> 00:15:54,713
But I was shocked in that way
that you always knew
something was gonna happen.
226
00:15:56,802 --> 00:16:00,763
I can't say
I was devastated because
I wasn't surprised, really.
227
00:16:00,937 --> 00:16:04,288
There are certain people
who have a lifestyle,
and, you know, I--
228
00:16:04,462 --> 00:16:08,771
Friends that I had in the '60s
who had really the kind
of lifestyle where you think,
229
00:16:08,945 --> 00:16:11,295
"Wow can they possibly
still be alive?"
230
00:16:11,469 --> 00:16:13,297
And he was certainly
one of them.
231
00:16:13,471 --> 00:16:15,778
You know,
his lifestyle was deadly.
232
00:16:15,952 --> 00:16:22,393
I don't think that anybody
who has abused himself
as deeply as Jim did,
233
00:16:22,567 --> 00:16:26,093
um, could ever have
rebounded from that.
234
00:16:26,267 --> 00:16:30,967
I mean, the alcohol and some
of the drugs and stuff
were extreme, for sure.
235
00:16:31,141 --> 00:16:33,535
I mean, anybody that knows Jim--
236
00:16:33,709 --> 00:16:35,754
I mean, he took everything
to the limit.
237
00:16:35,928 --> 00:16:37,930
I mean, he invented and--
238
00:16:38,105 --> 00:16:39,976
He invented
pushing the envelope.
239
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:43,675
I mean, he wanted to see
what would happen.
240
00:16:44,763 --> 00:16:47,766
[Jeff] The doctor concluded,
beyond any doubt,
241
00:16:47,940 --> 00:16:51,509
the official cause of death
was heart failure
242
00:16:51,683 --> 00:16:54,904
due to an excessive
consumption of alcohol.
243
00:17:01,867 --> 00:17:05,480
Almost immediately
following Jim's alleged death
244
00:17:05,654 --> 00:17:08,135
on July 3rd, 1971,
245
00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:11,007
an alternative story
began to circulate,
246
00:17:11,181 --> 00:17:14,054
casting doubt
on the original report.
247
00:17:14,619 --> 00:17:19,189
Many believe Jim died
after snorting heroin
at the Rock'n'Roll Circus,
248
00:17:19,363 --> 00:17:22,062
a club not far
from his Paris flat.
249
00:17:22,236 --> 00:17:27,589
[man in French]
250
00:17:44,736 --> 00:17:47,565
[Jeff] The story goes that Jim
scored smack for Pam,
251
00:17:47,739 --> 00:17:49,654
presumably from
a street dealer,
252
00:17:49,828 --> 00:17:53,223
sampled the product in a toilet
stall in the club's men's room,
253
00:17:53,397 --> 00:17:56,052
then passed out
or died instantly.
254
00:17:56,705 --> 00:18:00,622
The dealers were then
kind enough to carry his body
out of the club's back entrance,
255
00:18:00,796 --> 00:18:06,323
into the street, into a car,
and up the flights of stairs
to his Paris residence.
256
00:18:06,497 --> 00:18:10,588
[in French]
257
00:18:22,122 --> 00:18:26,082
[Jeff] Robyn Wurtele described
the Rock'n'Roll Circus
heroin theory to me
258
00:18:26,256 --> 00:18:29,129
in one word: "ridiculous."
259
00:18:30,782 --> 00:18:34,569
According to the
translation of Jim Morrison's
French death certificate,
260
00:18:34,743 --> 00:18:37,528
dated July 6th, 1971,
261
00:18:37,702 --> 00:18:42,751
Pamela Courson was
the only one present at the time
of Jim's apparent death,
262
00:18:42,925 --> 00:18:46,798
but she described
different versions of her story
to different people.
263
00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:50,237
There were problems
with the police report.
264
00:18:50,411 --> 00:18:53,501
Pamela Courson's stories
are inconsistent.
265
00:18:54,154 --> 00:18:57,592
There's no corroboration
of various facts
266
00:18:57,766 --> 00:19:01,683
that would be needed to
prove deaths in a court of law.
267
00:19:01,857 --> 00:19:05,339
The way that Ray kind of
described her, you know,
268
00:19:05,513 --> 00:19:07,689
at that point, just bursting
into tears, she said,
269
00:19:07,863 --> 00:19:11,562
"Gosh, I wish I had just
awakened once, you know,
270
00:19:11,736 --> 00:19:15,218
at the right time to go in there
and it might have, you know,
saved him or do something..."
271
00:19:15,392 --> 00:19:16,915
I don't quite buy that.
272
00:19:17,089 --> 00:19:18,917
There's something about that
that just doesn't...
273
00:19:19,657 --> 00:19:21,355
seem right to me.
274
00:19:21,529 --> 00:19:24,749
Twenty-seven-olds don't--
Typically...
275
00:19:26,011 --> 00:19:29,058
don't suddenly die.
276
00:19:29,232 --> 00:19:32,540
I was puzzled
by the mystery about it.
277
00:19:33,367 --> 00:19:36,935
You ask a physiologist
or a physician about this,
278
00:19:37,109 --> 00:19:39,895
and they'll think,
with Jim Morrison,
it was a drug overdose.
279
00:19:40,069 --> 00:19:41,636
But we don't know
280
00:19:43,028 --> 00:19:45,205
because of
the somewhat Byzantine way
281
00:19:45,379 --> 00:19:49,470
in which the documents
of Jim's death were created,
282
00:19:50,471 --> 00:19:51,950
or not created.
283
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,039
[Jeff] You told me yourself,
284
00:19:54,214 --> 00:19:56,999
he spoke to the following people
285
00:19:57,173 --> 00:19:59,480
specifically about
faking his death.
286
00:19:59,654 --> 00:20:05,137
Danny, Frank, Kathy and...?
287
00:20:05,877 --> 00:20:07,270
Me.
288
00:20:07,444 --> 00:20:08,967
[Jeff] Can you
please elaborate? [laughs]
289
00:20:09,141 --> 00:20:12,275
He just basically said
that, you know, um,
290
00:20:12,449 --> 00:20:17,019
"One of these days, I think
I just might go to Africa."
291
00:20:17,193 --> 00:20:21,197
But during the talk, he said,
"You know, maybe I should
use a different name."
292
00:20:21,371 --> 00:20:24,113
And I said,
"Well, do you have in mind?"
He said, "Douglas James."
293
00:20:24,287 --> 00:20:27,116
I said, "There are an awful lot
of Douglas Jameses out there.
294
00:20:27,595 --> 00:20:29,553
Be hard to track you down,
wouldn't it?"
295
00:20:30,337 --> 00:20:34,645
[Jeff] From Jim telling
high-school classmate
Bill Thomas in 1961
296
00:20:34,819 --> 00:20:37,213
that someday he'd disappear,
297
00:20:37,387 --> 00:20:43,611
to Robyn Wurtele,
his personal assistant in Paris,
telling me in 2016, quote,
298
00:20:43,785 --> 00:20:47,267
"If he's out there,
you may run into him
at some point,"
299
00:20:47,441 --> 00:20:51,183
a clear pattern emerged: escape.
300
00:20:52,446 --> 00:20:56,885
With the would-be Dr. Max
apparently having been
Varda's friend,
301
00:20:57,059 --> 00:21:02,499
perhaps her personal physician,
did he also function as an actor
302
00:21:02,673 --> 00:21:06,198
in the signing
of Jim's death certificate?
303
00:21:06,373 --> 00:21:11,856
This would align with what
the son of fellow Paris player
Alain Raisson told me
304
00:21:12,030 --> 00:21:15,251
his father's post-fire-brigade
life entailed:
305
00:21:16,557 --> 00:21:19,081
stage acting in Brazil.
306
00:21:19,864 --> 00:21:22,476
The doctor has never
been located.
307
00:21:22,650 --> 00:21:26,828
Even the pronunciation
of his name has proven
impossible to corroborate.
308
00:21:27,002 --> 00:21:29,439
There are those
who say it's "Vaseel,"
309
00:21:29,613 --> 00:21:31,963
while others claim "Vassilé,"
310
00:21:32,137 --> 00:21:35,576
"Vassilay," "Vassay," and so on.
311
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:40,668
The only ones that I was told
that saw the--
312
00:21:41,495 --> 00:21:45,455
Witnessed the death certificate
were Bill Siddons and Pam.
313
00:21:47,370 --> 00:21:51,287
Bill Siddons is
100 percent trustworthy.
314
00:21:53,245 --> 00:21:55,596
What Bill says, I believe.
315
00:21:55,770 --> 00:22:00,209
Jim was already in a coffin
in the living room of the--
Wherever he was staying.
316
00:22:03,038 --> 00:22:07,912
Unless Pam ran down to
the Coffins"R"Us or whatever,
where do you get a coffin?
317
00:22:08,086 --> 00:22:11,568
How do you get a body
in it that quickly?
318
00:22:15,703 --> 00:22:17,182
Get loose.
319
00:22:17,357 --> 00:22:19,054
Come on out to Coffins"R"Us.
320
00:22:19,228 --> 00:22:23,145
We got coffins to fit
every budget and lifestyle.
321
00:22:23,319 --> 00:22:27,192
Act now and break on through
to get the fully sealed
Siddons model,
322
00:22:27,367 --> 00:22:30,718
guaranteed not to leak
for 50 years.[coughs]
323
00:22:30,892 --> 00:22:34,461
Every 27th customer gets a free
James Phoenix action figure.
324
00:22:34,635 --> 00:22:35,549
[voice] Hi-yah.
325
00:22:35,723 --> 00:22:39,988
Only at Coffins"R"Us. Get loose.
326
00:22:40,162 --> 00:22:41,859
[glass shattering]
327
00:22:53,871 --> 00:22:56,047
[Jeff] "Paris is beautiful
in the sun,
328
00:22:56,221 --> 00:22:59,007
an exciting town built
for human beings.
329
00:22:59,573 --> 00:23:01,705
Speaking to Bill a while back,
330
00:23:01,879 --> 00:23:05,579
I told him of our desire
to stay on here indefinitely.
331
00:23:05,753 --> 00:23:07,232
Will that be possible?
332
00:23:07,711 --> 00:23:09,713
Could you write
and give me an idea
333
00:23:09,887 --> 00:23:13,456
of how long we can stay on
living at our present rate?
334
00:23:13,630 --> 00:23:16,416
A sort of financial statement
in general.
335
00:23:16,590 --> 00:23:19,593
Also a copy
of the partnership agreement,
336
00:23:19,767 --> 00:23:21,638
if it was ever completed."
337
00:23:23,074 --> 00:23:26,382
But in 1971,
did he have enough wealth
338
00:23:26,556 --> 00:23:28,950
to have lived--?
Faked his death?
339
00:23:29,124 --> 00:23:32,432
It may have depended upon
how much Pam was spending.
340
00:23:32,606 --> 00:23:37,524
Uh, I think he certainly had
enough wealth at that point
341
00:23:37,698 --> 00:23:42,485
because the records were gonna
continue to sell, whether
the band was active or not.
342
00:23:43,225 --> 00:23:45,619
He would have had enough money
the rest of his life.
343
00:23:47,969 --> 00:23:51,538
[Jeff] Pam Courson,
Jim's longtime girlfriend,
what's your take on her?
344
00:23:51,712 --> 00:23:54,889
Pam Courson, I don't know,
I have different feelings.
345
00:23:55,063 --> 00:23:58,893
I think she probably helped him
along in the beginning,
346
00:23:59,067 --> 00:24:03,854
but I think her heroin addiction
became a problem.
347
00:24:04,681 --> 00:24:08,380
And he wa--
He had mentioned once
348
00:24:08,555 --> 00:24:11,949
that he didn't like
the whole idea of copping
349
00:24:12,646 --> 00:24:16,693
and what that involved,
and didn't wanna have
anything to do with it.
350
00:24:16,867 --> 00:24:19,000
- [Jeff] Scoring drugs, right?
- Yeah.
351
00:24:19,174 --> 00:24:22,525
And I mean, I guess
she was shooting, wasn't she?
352
00:24:23,265 --> 00:24:25,659
[Jeff] I've researched
Jim's vintage interviews,
353
00:24:25,833 --> 00:24:28,488
from college newspapers
to Rolling Stone.
354
00:24:28,662 --> 00:24:32,622
And in a 1971 piece
for the L.A. Free Press,
355
00:24:32,796 --> 00:24:36,104
he stated that
he did not like scoring drugs.
356
00:24:44,242 --> 00:24:48,420
I had the theory
that what if the count,
you know, Jean de Breteuil,
357
00:24:48,595 --> 00:24:52,294
the guy who was Pam's dealer
and her lover in Paris...
358
00:24:52,468 --> 00:24:54,383
Many people think he killed Jim,
359
00:24:54,905 --> 00:24:56,951
either accidentally
or through murder
360
00:24:57,125 --> 00:24:59,954
or it was his heroin
or whatever.
361
00:25:02,434 --> 00:25:08,179
You know, I said to you,
"What if he helped Jim
escape out of Paris to Africa?"
362
00:25:08,353 --> 00:25:10,878
And what--? I can't remember,
what was your take on that?
363
00:25:11,052 --> 00:25:15,099
Well, I remember people
saying so many nasty things
about the guy, like he was evil.
364
00:25:15,622 --> 00:25:20,714
[Jeff] Frank is the first person
to have anything positive
to say about the count.
365
00:25:20,888 --> 00:25:23,238
But I wonder if I struck a nerve
366
00:25:23,412 --> 00:25:27,764
when I suggested the count
may have helped Jim fly
out of Paris to Morocco,
367
00:25:27,938 --> 00:25:32,421
a small country in North Africa,
with a new passport in hand.
368
00:25:33,857 --> 00:25:36,904
[in French]
369
00:25:50,352 --> 00:25:54,748
[Jeff] Pam was said to have seen
the count on and off
for a number of years,
370
00:25:54,922 --> 00:25:56,576
he being not only her lover,
371
00:25:56,750 --> 00:25:59,448
but also her main
heroin connection.
372
00:25:59,622 --> 00:26:04,409
Allegedly, his product
also was the heroin
that killed Janis Joplin.
373
00:26:04,888 --> 00:26:07,717
[Jeff] You never saw heroin?
You never saw that in the mix?
374
00:26:07,891 --> 00:26:09,763
- No.
- Backstage or wherever?
375
00:26:09,937 --> 00:26:11,634
No, I never really did.
376
00:26:11,808 --> 00:26:14,898
Um, we did a lot of other things
on occasion,
377
00:26:15,072 --> 00:26:19,381
but no, I've never seen that.
378
00:26:21,426 --> 00:26:24,212
[Jeff] Immediately following
Jim's reported death,
379
00:26:24,386 --> 00:26:29,043
the Count Jean de Breteuil
decided to leave France
in a hurry.
380
00:26:29,217 --> 00:26:31,698
His destination? Morocco.
381
00:26:32,263 --> 00:26:33,961
If Jim did fake his death,
382
00:26:34,135 --> 00:26:37,704
Africa appeared a likely
candidate for his new home,
383
00:26:37,878 --> 00:26:40,968
or at least
his first destination.
384
00:26:45,233 --> 00:26:49,106
[Jeff] I'm about 90 to 95%
still in belief that
he pulled the Rimbaud,
385
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,805
because he was obsessed
with Rimbaud.
386
00:26:51,979 --> 00:26:53,328
Rimbaud did vanish.
387
00:26:53,502 --> 00:26:55,069
He disappeared
into North Africa.
388
00:26:55,243 --> 00:26:58,028
And, oh, gee,
where did Jim talk about going?
389
00:26:58,202 --> 00:27:00,161
He talked about
going to Morocco.
390
00:27:00,335 --> 00:27:02,903
He talked about going
to the west coast of Africa.
391
00:27:03,077 --> 00:27:05,645
He wanted to see where
the slaves came from.
392
00:27:06,341 --> 00:27:12,826
Uh, so that would be Senegal,
Ghana, the Ivory Coast.
393
00:27:13,914 --> 00:27:15,916
And where's
that missing passport?
394
00:27:19,659 --> 00:27:22,226
He lost his first passport.
395
00:27:23,619 --> 00:27:27,318
[Jeff] The first one is the one
he got in August of '68
for the European tour...
396
00:27:27,492 --> 00:27:28,929
- Right
- ...a few weeks after--
397
00:27:29,103 --> 00:27:30,670
That's the one
that went back to his parents.
398
00:27:30,844 --> 00:27:31,671
Yes.
399
00:27:31,845 --> 00:27:33,673
You know, I just wonder
400
00:27:33,847 --> 00:27:37,154
because his family
got his initial passport,
401
00:27:37,328 --> 00:27:40,897
the one that was supposed
to be lost in an airport.
402
00:27:43,117 --> 00:27:47,425
And where was the new one?
It's never surfaced.
403
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:52,648
[Jeff] I think this, along with
the fact that, you know,
when he was in Paris,
404
00:27:52,822 --> 00:27:55,738
I told you, he was having
a pair of boots widened.
405
00:27:55,912 --> 00:27:59,568
I mean, he was
making plans to live.
406
00:28:02,484 --> 00:28:03,703
You know, there's the letter
407
00:28:03,877 --> 00:28:05,487
right before
Jim's alleged death.
408
00:28:05,661 --> 00:28:08,272
[Stevenson] Yeah, "Come to Paris
and see me." Yeah.
409
00:28:08,446 --> 00:28:10,318
[Jeff] He wrote
the postcard to Max.
410
00:28:11,101 --> 00:28:13,669
He wrote a letter to Bob Greene
requesting money.
411
00:28:13,843 --> 00:28:16,063
[Stevenson] Yeah.
412
00:28:16,237 --> 00:28:19,806
[Jeff] He wanted a credit card
made out in Pam's name
and his name separately.
413
00:28:19,980 --> 00:28:24,636
And in the Max Fink transcript,
it says that Jim was going
to Paris to leave Pam.
414
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,955
[Jeff] After Jim's
apparent death,
415
00:28:39,129 --> 00:28:42,219
a distraught Pam returned
to the United States,
416
00:28:42,393 --> 00:28:46,397
where she stayed close to
Diane Gardner and Ellen Sander.
417
00:28:53,796 --> 00:28:55,842
I'm in San Francisco.
I've got Pam with me.
418
00:28:56,016 --> 00:28:59,410
She cannot face the press,
so we need a place to hide out.
419
00:28:59,584 --> 00:29:02,674
I was living in Bolinas,
California, at the time.
420
00:29:02,849 --> 00:29:06,200
Very quiet, small-village life.
"Can we come and stay with you?"
421
00:29:06,374 --> 00:29:09,116
And I said, "Sure,
for as long as you'd like."
422
00:29:10,030 --> 00:29:14,948
I was at that point
absolutely certain that
they had Jim in the trunk.
423
00:29:16,253 --> 00:29:17,080
Alive.
424
00:29:20,170 --> 00:29:22,433
[Jeff] Can you describe
the letter you're reading?
Or who it's from?
425
00:29:22,607 --> 00:29:24,784
Yeah. Yeah.
This is Diane Gardner,
426
00:29:24,958 --> 00:29:28,004
who, for a while,
worked at Elektra,
427
00:29:28,178 --> 00:29:33,314
Jim's publicist, basically,
in L.A., and Pamela, after...
428
00:29:34,315 --> 00:29:36,273
Just a few weeks
after Jim's death,
429
00:29:36,447 --> 00:29:40,103
stayed with Diane in Sausalito,
430
00:29:40,277 --> 00:29:43,585
and together,
they wrote me this letter.
431
00:29:43,759 --> 00:29:47,937
- And what is the date on it?
- July 26, '71.
432
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,985
"So here's the story
of how Jim did his last joke,
433
00:29:52,594 --> 00:29:53,987
which is on us.
434
00:29:55,031 --> 00:29:58,078
Jim was having
a real good time in Paris
435
00:29:58,252 --> 00:30:00,820
and going all over
the world with Pam.
436
00:30:02,169 --> 00:30:07,739
One evening, he had a nosebleed
and said he'd probably feel
better if he had a bath.
437
00:30:08,697 --> 00:30:12,135
'He might have needed one,'"
says Pamela.
438
00:30:13,571 --> 00:30:19,621
"An hour later, Pam wondered
what Jim was doing with himself
for an hour in the bath.
439
00:30:20,274 --> 00:30:21,841
And there he was.
440
00:30:22,015 --> 00:30:24,800
Jim was just reclining
like a little sweetheart emperor
441
00:30:24,974 --> 00:30:28,238
in the old Parisian tub
with his head back
442
00:30:28,412 --> 00:30:32,373
and a smile, a fucking smile,
on his face.
443
00:30:32,547 --> 00:30:36,464
Pamela tried to wake him up,
but no, nothing doing.
444
00:30:36,638 --> 00:30:38,901
'He must think it's very funny
445
00:30:39,075 --> 00:30:42,557
to play dead like this
in the bath.'
446
00:30:42,731 --> 00:30:48,519
It was another hour almost
before Pam finally realized
that Jim wasn't playing
447
00:30:48,693 --> 00:30:51,827
because he didn't even
turn blue or anything.
448
00:30:52,610 --> 00:30:54,830
He just laid back
with a grin on his face.
449
00:30:55,004 --> 00:30:57,877
So Pam tried to get him
out of the tub,
450
00:30:58,051 --> 00:31:02,577
and the police came,
and it's a good thing she didn't
think of letting the water out,
451
00:31:02,751 --> 00:31:04,448
because they wanted to check it.
452
00:31:05,101 --> 00:31:07,799
There he was,
just reclining like the Pope,
453
00:31:08,409 --> 00:31:10,454
and the only thing
different about him
454
00:31:10,628 --> 00:31:15,416
is that he had something
like a little red rash
right over his heart.
455
00:31:17,461 --> 00:31:19,072
So that was Jim's joke.
456
00:31:19,246 --> 00:31:21,813
And there's a few creeps
walking around still pissed off
457
00:31:21,988 --> 00:31:24,816
because he did it au naturel.
458
00:31:25,905 --> 00:31:29,343
By the time the Paris cops
had checked out Jim's joke
459
00:31:30,083 --> 00:31:33,738
and declared him dead
of natural resources,
460
00:31:33,913 --> 00:31:37,351
the Paris morticians had split
for the weekend,
461
00:31:37,525 --> 00:31:42,269
and they weren't gonna come out
of the woodwork to pick up
anybody's discarded body.
462
00:31:42,443 --> 00:31:45,141
And this turned out
to be a stroke of luck
463
00:31:45,315 --> 00:31:48,057
because whoever is in charge
of bodies in Paris
464
00:31:48,231 --> 00:31:51,495
just laid him out right there
in the apartment.
465
00:31:51,669 --> 00:31:55,412
They didn't bother Pam and Jim
except to change the ice.
466
00:31:56,370 --> 00:32:01,027
Pamela says that when somebody
you love dies, whatever you do,
467
00:32:01,201 --> 00:32:05,683
don't let them cart the body off
to some crummy mortuary.
468
00:32:05,857 --> 00:32:09,992
Keep the body right in your home
until it's time to get buried,
469
00:32:10,166 --> 00:32:14,518
because the spirit
still hangs around
as long as the body is there.
470
00:32:14,692 --> 00:32:16,651
Because of
the mortician's holiday,
471
00:32:16,825 --> 00:32:19,393
Pam and Jim had
one last weekend together,
472
00:32:20,133 --> 00:32:23,397
and he was right there
with the whole scene,
473
00:32:23,571 --> 00:32:25,312
and they listened to some music
474
00:32:25,486 --> 00:32:27,488
and Pam even smoked a little.
475
00:32:28,054 --> 00:32:30,491
As soon as they took
the body away,
476
00:32:30,665 --> 00:32:32,406
his spirit went away.
477
00:32:32,580 --> 00:32:35,365
We wish we had a picture of him
there in his last moments,
478
00:32:35,539 --> 00:32:39,108
except that Pam was too busy
being with him.
479
00:32:39,282 --> 00:32:42,329
And then at the funeral, it was
just too much of a hassle,
480
00:32:42,503 --> 00:32:45,027
what with other people there
and all that."
481
00:32:46,463 --> 00:32:50,641
So does this sound, you know,
so mundane that it's true?
482
00:32:50,815 --> 00:32:52,600
[Jeff] Holy shit. I...
483
00:32:53,209 --> 00:32:56,299
I've just been sitting here
frozen the entire time
you were reading it.
484
00:32:58,127 --> 00:33:01,783
Diane Gardner knew.
She knew what the heck happened.
485
00:33:01,957 --> 00:33:04,046
And she wouldn't tell me.
486
00:33:04,220 --> 00:33:07,006
So I tried to squeeze it
out of her,
487
00:33:07,180 --> 00:33:08,833
and she never would tell me.
488
00:33:09,008 --> 00:33:11,271
You know, there's obviously
a secret around his death.
489
00:33:12,054 --> 00:33:14,883
And she said,
"There is a secret,
490
00:33:15,057 --> 00:33:17,059
and you're never
gonna get it out of me."
491
00:33:17,581 --> 00:33:22,499
[Jeff] In the transcript
he dictated to his wife,
Maggie, in 1986,
492
00:33:22,673 --> 00:33:27,417
Jim's attorney,
Max Fink, suspected
Pam may have killed Jim.
493
00:33:27,591 --> 00:33:31,813
Jim's lover Linda Ashcroft
maintained the same suspicion
494
00:33:31,987 --> 00:33:34,859
in her 1997 book, Wild Child,
495
00:33:35,034 --> 00:33:39,560
in which she claimed
Pam admitted to her
that Jim died from her heroin
496
00:33:39,734 --> 00:33:41,649
after he assumed
it was cocaine.
497
00:33:41,823 --> 00:33:45,783
Diane told Mirandi Babitz,
498
00:33:45,957 --> 00:33:50,092
who I interviewed
for this film almost
three years ago already.
499
00:33:50,571 --> 00:33:55,097
She-- Mirandi is on the record
saying that Diane told her
500
00:33:55,271 --> 00:33:57,360
there is a, quote,
"secret about Jim's death,
501
00:33:57,534 --> 00:33:59,623
and you're never
gonna get it out of me."
502
00:34:00,668 --> 00:34:02,626
[laughs] You know,
what's that, right?
503
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,107
Okay. We all know
the heroin scenario.
504
00:34:05,281 --> 00:34:07,631
Was that a cover story?
So, what's the secret?
505
00:34:08,284 --> 00:34:11,461
I know that secret,
and you're not gonna
get it out of me either.
506
00:34:15,074 --> 00:34:17,728
[Jeff] Because the parties
involved did not allow
507
00:34:17,902 --> 00:34:20,470
for an American
or French autopsy,
508
00:34:20,644 --> 00:34:23,038
the endless questions
will remain.
509
00:34:24,953 --> 00:34:28,304
And in your opinion, do you--?
510
00:34:28,478 --> 00:34:31,742
What do you feel killed Jim?
511
00:34:32,917 --> 00:34:34,397
His lifestyle.
512
00:34:34,571 --> 00:34:38,053
Uh, obviously,
he drank too much.
513
00:34:38,227 --> 00:34:39,837
I think, by that time,
he was overweight,
514
00:34:40,011 --> 00:34:42,797
and, you know,
if you're not in good health
515
00:34:42,971 --> 00:34:45,669
and you drink too much
and dabble in some drugs,
516
00:34:45,843 --> 00:34:47,671
it's not that hard to do.
517
00:34:47,845 --> 00:34:50,457
[Babitz] By the time I had last
seen him, he was all bloated.
518
00:34:50,631 --> 00:34:56,419
And, you know, he had
a thin little attractive layer
of bloat, you know,
519
00:34:56,593 --> 00:34:58,900
back when I had first known him,
520
00:34:59,074 --> 00:35:02,860
but, you know, here we are
just a few years later,
you know, and he's fully--
521
00:35:03,034 --> 00:35:04,906
You know, so his liver
is not functioning.
522
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,084
[in French]
523
00:35:26,014 --> 00:35:29,365
[Jeff] These are some of
the last photos taken of Jim,
524
00:35:29,539 --> 00:35:32,412
in Paris in May 1971.
525
00:35:33,021 --> 00:35:36,155
Does he appear to be
significantly overweight?
526
00:35:36,329 --> 00:35:39,854
And to such a degree
that his health was at risk?
527
00:35:40,376 --> 00:35:42,291
We may never know.
528
00:35:43,118 --> 00:35:49,211
These intimate photos were taken
by one of Jim's close
French friends, Hervé Muller.
529
00:35:53,433 --> 00:35:55,174
[Frank X] Like soul brothers.
530
00:36:00,309 --> 00:36:03,747
[Jeff] From biographers
to police reports,
531
00:36:03,921 --> 00:36:08,970
even Jim's physical height
has remained an ongoing
topic of debate.
532
00:36:11,842 --> 00:36:15,019
While conducting my interviews
for this docuseries,
533
00:36:15,194 --> 00:36:19,285
I asked everyone how tall
they thought Jim was.
534
00:36:19,981 --> 00:36:23,071
Their answers were fascinating.
535
00:36:24,377 --> 00:36:27,554
I'd say 5'8", 5'9",
something like that.
536
00:36:27,728 --> 00:36:32,298
Somewhere between 5'10"
and 5'11", maybe.
537
00:36:32,472 --> 00:36:37,216
[Jeff] How tall would you say
Jim Morrison was in the time
you knew him at UCLA?
538
00:36:38,086 --> 00:36:39,479
Hmm...
539
00:36:41,307 --> 00:36:45,572
I'd say he was about, mm, 5'8".
540
00:36:46,442 --> 00:36:50,751
[in French]
541
00:37:01,849 --> 00:37:02,850
5'10".
542
00:37:03,024 --> 00:37:05,156
Confident. 5'9".
543
00:37:05,983 --> 00:37:07,333
He was exactly my height.
544
00:37:07,507 --> 00:37:12,338
We looked eyeball to eyeball
in 1963.
545
00:37:13,817 --> 00:37:16,603
So I was 6 feet then.
He had to have been 6 feet
546
00:37:16,777 --> 00:37:20,955
or not more than a quarter
of an inch higher or lower.
547
00:37:21,129 --> 00:37:23,131
5'9", 5'10", max.
548
00:37:24,001 --> 00:37:28,179
I'm 5'7", so he was
certainly taller than I am,
at least by two inches.
549
00:37:28,354 --> 00:37:30,747
So I'd say he was 5'9", 5'10".
550
00:37:30,921 --> 00:37:33,881
He probably wasn't 6 feet tall,
but he was plenty tall.
551
00:37:34,577 --> 00:37:35,665
He was about...
552
00:37:36,275 --> 00:37:38,755
He was about my height,
and I was 5'10".
553
00:37:38,929 --> 00:37:40,322
I'd say 5'11".
554
00:37:40,931 --> 00:37:43,369
Maybe 5'9" at the most. Or...
555
00:37:43,543 --> 00:37:45,196
You know,
and the other thing was,
556
00:37:45,371 --> 00:37:48,069
he rarely really
stood up straight.
557
00:37:48,243 --> 00:37:49,853
You know? He was more--
558
00:37:50,027 --> 00:37:55,685
I always think of him
more slumped a bit, you know?
559
00:37:55,859 --> 00:37:59,210
He slouched a lot.
He was a sloucher. He was--
560
00:37:59,385 --> 00:38:03,214
He had desert boots on, and he
was slouching around, you know?
561
00:38:03,389 --> 00:38:07,088
I mean, so he looked shorter.
And I said he was my height,
562
00:38:07,262 --> 00:38:10,570
which would have been about 5'8"
or 5'9" in high school.
563
00:38:10,744 --> 00:38:13,137
Well, I actually know
the answer to this question
564
00:38:13,312 --> 00:38:17,707
because of the thing
when we stood in front
of the mirror, and we were--
565
00:38:17,881 --> 00:38:20,580
He was going, "Are you
actually taller than me?"
566
00:38:20,754 --> 00:38:24,192
And we had to measure.
He was that neurotic.
567
00:38:24,366 --> 00:38:26,020
He was actually taller than me.
568
00:38:26,194 --> 00:38:28,892
And at that time,
I was about 5'9.5".
569
00:38:29,066 --> 00:38:35,159
So I'd say he's probably
5'10" to 5'11".
570
00:38:35,334 --> 00:38:36,465
He was not 6 feet.
571
00:38:36,639 --> 00:38:40,643
[in French]
572
00:38:47,041 --> 00:38:51,915
My dad was 5'8", Jim was 5'9",
and I reached 5'10.5".
573
00:38:52,655 --> 00:38:56,180
And that's how tall--
He liked to wear the boots,
574
00:38:56,355 --> 00:38:59,662
and he always said he would
like to be six-foot tall.
575
00:38:59,836 --> 00:39:02,056
He'd like to have been taller.
576
00:39:04,101 --> 00:39:06,974
[Jeff] According to
the enigmatic Bob Seymore
577
00:39:07,148 --> 00:39:09,193
in his one and only book,
578
00:39:09,368 --> 00:39:12,501
Jim's corpse was listed
among French documents
579
00:39:12,675 --> 00:39:17,027
in the metric
equivalent of 6'1",
580
00:39:17,201 --> 00:39:19,856
as opposed to Jim's
reported actual height of...
581
00:39:20,030 --> 00:39:22,816
- [man] 5'9".
- [Jeff] ...to 5'11".
582
00:39:25,253 --> 00:39:30,780
Seymore's information
doesn't track with
the official Morrison narrative
583
00:39:30,954 --> 00:39:36,003
and so supports the notion
that Jim or someone close to him
584
00:39:36,177 --> 00:39:40,181
may have acquired a medical
cadaver or John Doe body.
585
00:39:41,965 --> 00:39:46,100
An internist told me
corpses do not grow in height.
586
00:39:46,274 --> 00:39:49,364
If anything,
the opposite holds true.
587
00:39:51,061 --> 00:39:53,150
[Jeff] Um, so let me
ask you this.
588
00:39:53,324 --> 00:39:56,458
[Jeff] This is a fun question,
as you were just
standing up next to me.
589
00:39:57,154 --> 00:40:02,246
I think I was going to ask you
at one point when I thought
you were Jim, how tall are you?
590
00:40:02,421 --> 00:40:03,857
5'7.5".
591
00:40:04,031 --> 00:40:06,990
Okay. So, now--
Now, were you always 5'7.5"?
592
00:40:07,164 --> 00:40:08,296
- Yeah.
- Okay.
593
00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:09,906
Jim apparently was 5'11".
594
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,299
- So there you go.
- Oh, okay.
595
00:40:11,473 --> 00:40:13,170
There's proof
right there, right?
596
00:40:13,344 --> 00:40:15,434
'Cause I know the fans
will probably wanna know.
597
00:40:15,608 --> 00:40:19,220
I asked all of Jim's lovers
and his friends
and Andy Morrison...
598
00:40:19,394 --> 00:40:20,656
I gotta ask you a question.
599
00:40:20,830 --> 00:40:22,179
...Jac Holzman,
"How tall was Jim?"
600
00:40:22,353 --> 00:40:23,659
And I got all kinds
of different answers.
601
00:40:23,833 --> 00:40:25,313
- Oh, really?
- They would say he's 5'7",
602
00:40:25,487 --> 00:40:26,619
they'd say he's 6'1",
603
00:40:26,793 --> 00:40:28,098
they'd say he's 5'11"...
604
00:40:28,272 --> 00:40:29,926
So how'd you find out
the real truth?
605
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:33,364
The consensus seems
to be about 5'11".
606
00:40:33,539 --> 00:40:34,278
[Frank X]
607
00:40:34,453 --> 00:40:36,063
5'10", 5'11".
608
00:40:36,672 --> 00:40:41,677
"Okay," you say to yourself,
"Jim was about 5'10" or 5'11",
609
00:40:41,851 --> 00:40:44,245
and Frank is 5'7.5"."
610
00:40:44,724 --> 00:40:47,291
But the human body
shrinks as it ages.
611
00:40:47,466 --> 00:40:50,686
You can lose two to three inches
of height as you get older.
612
00:40:50,860 --> 00:40:55,125
I don't know if you want this
on the camera, but I had
a good friend at one time...
613
00:40:55,299 --> 00:40:57,171
- [Jeff] Sure.
- ...told me that--
614
00:40:58,085 --> 00:41:02,698
He was from Boston, but he lived
up this way for a while,
615
00:41:02,872 --> 00:41:04,526
and I got to know him
really well.
616
00:41:04,700 --> 00:41:06,093
Frank Higgins from Boston.
617
00:41:06,267 --> 00:41:08,835
He was a little
toughie Irishman.
618
00:41:09,357 --> 00:41:11,185
He told me that they were--
619
00:41:11,359 --> 00:41:15,798
That they had a homosexual
relationship in New York
620
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:17,713
when he was in New York.
621
00:41:17,887 --> 00:41:19,193
[Jeff] I'm sorry, who did?
622
00:41:19,759 --> 00:41:21,412
[Frank] #### and Jim.
623
00:41:21,587 --> 00:41:25,721
[Jeff] Wow. I've never heard
this story before.
624
00:41:25,895 --> 00:41:28,681
It's not printed anywhere,
to my knowledge,
625
00:41:28,855 --> 00:41:31,597
and it's not in any documentary.
626
00:41:31,771 --> 00:41:36,689
There hasn't even been a rumor
of Jim and this particular
person having been together.
627
00:41:36,863 --> 00:41:39,953
So how did Frank know this?
628
00:41:40,127 --> 00:41:42,651
See, I learned something new.
People think I'm an expert
on Jim Morrison.
629
00:41:42,825 --> 00:41:44,566
Yeah. Well,
he told me this, and he's--
630
00:41:44,740 --> 00:41:47,351
I don't know how he knew,
but he wasn't a bullshitter.
631
00:41:47,526 --> 00:41:49,745
[Jeff] Yeah. And what's
your friend's name?
632
00:41:49,919 --> 00:41:51,007
Frank Higgins.
633
00:41:52,095 --> 00:41:54,533
[Jeff] I did a search
for Frank Higgins of Boston
634
00:41:54,707 --> 00:41:57,492
and found only one person
by that name.
635
00:41:57,666 --> 00:41:59,668
But when I spoke with him,
636
00:41:59,842 --> 00:42:02,845
he said he did not live
in Boston during
that time period.
637
00:42:03,542 --> 00:42:06,022
Maybe he was loaded
and had one--
638
00:42:06,196 --> 00:42:08,416
You know, didn't know
what was going on.
639
00:42:08,590 --> 00:42:11,419
[Jeff] I've heard that Jim
was either bisexual
or experimented with that,
640
00:42:11,593 --> 00:42:13,290
as, you know,
many young people do.
641
00:42:13,464 --> 00:42:14,857
What's your take on that?
642
00:42:15,031 --> 00:42:17,120
Do you think Jim was
straight or bi or...?
643
00:42:17,817 --> 00:42:19,862
I can't imagine him being bi.
644
00:42:21,211 --> 00:42:23,997
You think he was straight and
maybe just had some experiences?
645
00:42:24,171 --> 00:42:26,869
Well, having been
under the influence
646
00:42:27,043 --> 00:42:31,221
and being interested
in experimentation,
647
00:42:32,919 --> 00:42:37,663
I don't think he was
in his "right" mind when--
648
00:42:37,837 --> 00:42:39,752
If it might have happened.
649
00:42:41,405 --> 00:42:46,410
[Jeff] Jim certainly was known
to have had intimate sexual
relationships with other men.
650
00:42:50,937 --> 00:42:53,504
Two things come to mind.
651
00:42:54,375 --> 00:42:57,900
One is the line from...
652
00:42:58,074 --> 00:43:00,381
Oh, gosh, I think it's on
"Soft Parade", yeah.
653
00:43:00,555 --> 00:43:01,774
[Jeff] "Till his wife
gets home"?
654
00:43:01,948 --> 00:43:03,384
[Ross] "Until his wife
gets home."
655
00:43:05,995 --> 00:43:08,868
And it was done
so tongue in cheek
656
00:43:09,042 --> 00:43:11,392
that I just considered it
kind of funny.
657
00:43:11,566 --> 00:43:15,614
Until the last time
that Jim and I were together,
658
00:43:16,789 --> 00:43:21,010
he actually had me take him
to where he was staying in--
659
00:43:21,184 --> 00:43:23,099
I wrote it down as Bungalow B.
660
00:43:23,273 --> 00:43:26,015
It may not be Bungalow B,
but that's how I wrote it.
661
00:43:26,189 --> 00:43:27,582
- at the Chateau Marmont.
662
00:43:28,627 --> 00:43:32,979
And as we were getting
out of my car
663
00:43:33,153 --> 00:43:36,199
and walking in that direction,
664
00:43:36,373 --> 00:43:41,030
um, a very pretty, very gay
young man approached him,
665
00:43:41,204 --> 00:43:44,033
kind of sidled up to him,
and was, you know,
666
00:43:44,207 --> 00:43:46,949
"Hi, Jim, how you doing?
Blah, blah, blah."
667
00:43:47,123 --> 00:43:52,955
And it struck me at the time
that he was certainly
not put off by it.
668
00:43:53,129 --> 00:43:56,002
It didn't seem--
He didn't miss a beat.
669
00:43:56,176 --> 00:43:57,699
It wasn't like,
you know, you know,
670
00:43:57,873 --> 00:43:59,266
"Oh, you queer,
get away from me."
671
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,443
He was congenial,
and he was just--
672
00:44:02,617 --> 00:44:05,315
You know, he was fine with it.
673
00:44:05,489 --> 00:44:08,710
[Jeff] Because, you know, Ji--
It was the '60s, the late '60s,
and Jim said, "I want"-- Quote,
674
00:44:08,884 --> 00:44:10,538
"I want the freedom
to try everything once."
675
00:44:10,712 --> 00:44:13,323
So you've gotta figure maybe--
Why wouldn't you?
676
00:44:13,497 --> 00:44:16,152
Well, and in all the reading
he did about all the writers
677
00:44:16,326 --> 00:44:21,505
from the 1700s, 18,
there was a lot of that rampant.
678
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,509
And if he might have--
He might have been
fucked up or on drugs,
679
00:44:25,684 --> 00:44:27,250
and if he tried something
with somebody,
680
00:44:27,424 --> 00:44:30,210
I don't think
it was a lasting thing.
681
00:44:31,298 --> 00:44:34,214
And I'm sure
it wouldn't bother him
682
00:44:34,388 --> 00:44:36,085
if it was made public.
683
00:44:36,782 --> 00:44:39,088
To me, he was
sort of homophobic.
684
00:44:40,394 --> 00:44:41,264
- You know?
- [Jeff] Really?
685
00:44:41,438 --> 00:44:42,352
Yeah.
686
00:44:44,398 --> 00:44:48,358
Loved the girls.
Not so much the guys.
687
00:44:48,532 --> 00:44:52,058
I don't remember ever really
talking to him about it,
688
00:44:52,232 --> 00:44:57,019
but just being in certain
situations with him,
689
00:44:57,193 --> 00:45:03,896
um, I saw a comfort level
that didn't surprise me.
690
00:45:04,505 --> 00:45:06,681
It was very evident to me
691
00:45:06,855 --> 00:45:11,642
that there was a relationship
there with McClure and him.
692
00:45:11,817 --> 00:45:14,515
No, I mean,
I just don't believe it.
He wasn't gay.
693
00:45:14,689 --> 00:45:17,126
The guy was not gay,
and I don't think he was bi.
I don't think--
694
00:45:17,300 --> 00:45:19,650
I think that bi people
are so rare,
695
00:45:19,825 --> 00:45:22,175
are so thin on the ground,
696
00:45:22,349 --> 00:45:27,310
the chances of people
being bi, I think,
is really quite unusual.
697
00:45:27,484 --> 00:45:29,051
And I really don't
think he was that.
698
00:45:29,225 --> 00:45:30,749
He was very interested in women.
699
00:45:30,923 --> 00:45:33,752
He was completely
interested in females.
700
00:45:34,317 --> 00:45:38,539
He was really
obsessed with women.
701
00:45:38,713 --> 00:45:42,195
[Huddleston] I would
find it hard to believe
that he never did,
702
00:45:42,369 --> 00:45:46,199
just out of the willingness
to try everything.
703
00:45:46,765 --> 00:45:53,119
And when I asked him about it,
he was very, um, snippy
704
00:45:53,293 --> 00:45:55,512
and said, "No, not me."
705
00:45:55,686 --> 00:45:58,515
But I didn't
entirely believe him,
706
00:45:58,689 --> 00:46:01,823
and I was surprised
by his vehemence
707
00:46:01,997 --> 00:46:03,869
because at that point in time,
708
00:46:04,043 --> 00:46:06,828
it was relatively
not a big deal.
709
00:46:09,004 --> 00:46:13,226
So it seemed strange that he was
so insistent that, no, never.
710
00:46:13,879 --> 00:46:16,185
And then that-- Actually,
that same evening, he said,
711
00:46:16,359 --> 00:46:19,754
"I want to be with every woman
in this room, even her."
712
00:46:19,928 --> 00:46:22,931
And he pointed to this woman
that didn't seem like
a likely candidate.
713
00:46:23,105 --> 00:46:25,891
So... yeah.
714
00:46:26,065 --> 00:46:28,328
There was something
going on there, yeah.
715
00:46:28,502 --> 00:46:31,940
[Babitz] There was a big fight
between Pam and Jim.
716
00:46:32,549 --> 00:46:38,120
And, uh, overnight, and we
were staying in a bedroom
across the hall from them.
717
00:46:38,294 --> 00:46:43,343
And the next day,
when Jim went out to the studio,
718
00:46:43,517 --> 00:46:48,043
Pam, you know, just gathered up
all of his stage clothing
719
00:46:48,217 --> 00:46:51,699
and started cutting it up
with scissors.
720
00:46:51,873 --> 00:46:54,310
She was, like, just enraged,
721
00:46:54,484 --> 00:46:56,791
and she wouldn't be
straight with me
722
00:46:56,965 --> 00:46:59,750
about what she was
so angry about.
723
00:47:00,316 --> 00:47:02,188
But one of the things
that she did was,
724
00:47:02,362 --> 00:47:05,582
we had to go across
the street to the cleaners
725
00:47:05,756 --> 00:47:07,323
to get the rest
of his stage clothes,
726
00:47:07,497 --> 00:47:10,283
'cause she wanted
to destroy every scrap of it.
727
00:47:10,892 --> 00:47:14,591
So we got it out of the--
Out of the cleaners,
728
00:47:14,765 --> 00:47:16,898
and it was a vest
that he liked to wear onstage,
729
00:47:17,072 --> 00:47:19,118
and she wrote "fag"
across the back of it
730
00:47:19,292 --> 00:47:20,641
and underlined it
731
00:47:20,815 --> 00:47:24,079
and then... chopped it up
with her scissors.
732
00:47:25,037 --> 00:47:27,953
And, you know, I tried to talk
to her about it, and, you know--
733
00:47:28,127 --> 00:47:30,390
'Cause I said,
"Well, he's with you, isn't he?"
734
00:47:30,564 --> 00:47:32,740
You know,
"What are you talking about?"
735
00:47:32,914 --> 00:47:38,180
And she-- You know, she just
would cuss and scream at him
736
00:47:38,354 --> 00:47:40,400
and, you know, yell his name
and, you know...
737
00:47:40,574 --> 00:47:45,274
[chuckles] So she wasn't clear,
but it did...
738
00:47:46,623 --> 00:47:50,540
You know, at the time,
I thought-- I didn't--
You know, I had no idea.
739
00:47:50,714 --> 00:47:52,934
I didn't know anybody
who was bisexual,
740
00:47:53,108 --> 00:47:57,460
so it didn't come into my radar
as a possibility.
741
00:47:59,419 --> 00:48:03,858
Being gay was kind of okay in
the crowd we were in, you know,
742
00:48:04,032 --> 00:48:05,599
but it just--
743
00:48:05,773 --> 00:48:07,993
So it was like, I didn't know
what to make of it.
744
00:48:08,167 --> 00:48:13,520
I really didn't understand,
but I think, looking from
this perspective in life,
745
00:48:13,694 --> 00:48:17,524
I would say
I think it's a possibility,
746
00:48:17,698 --> 00:48:19,918
you know, that he would be,
747
00:48:20,092 --> 00:48:22,659
but he was predominantly
with women.
748
00:48:24,966 --> 00:48:28,535
[Jeff] In June 1970,
Jim took a trip to France
749
00:48:28,709 --> 00:48:31,059
with the Doors publicist,
Leon Barnard,
750
00:48:31,233 --> 00:48:35,977
where Jim just so
happened to run into
his dear friend Alain Ronay.
751
00:48:36,151 --> 00:48:40,895
Given that it was
Jim's first time in Paris,
Alain showed him the ropes.
752
00:48:41,069 --> 00:48:42,941
Was this Jim's
reconnaissance mission
753
00:48:43,115 --> 00:48:47,206
to pre-plan and map out
his ultimate escape?
754
00:48:47,728 --> 00:48:52,907
What if, in an excerpt from
Ronay's published 1991 article,
755
00:48:53,081 --> 00:48:55,692
"Jim and I:
Friends Until Death,"
756
00:48:55,866 --> 00:49:03,962
Ronay revealed he and Jim
had physically practiced Jim's
alleged July 3rd, 1971, demise?
757
00:49:04,919 --> 00:49:07,182
Did Alain help Jim
achieve his goal
758
00:49:07,356 --> 00:49:09,141
of the Rimbaud vanishing act?
759
00:49:11,491 --> 00:49:14,015
Here, then,
are Ronay's own words:
760
00:49:14,842 --> 00:49:18,237
"I felt as if I had entered
a state of déjà vu
761
00:49:18,411 --> 00:49:22,328
made possible by years
of rehearsing the same script."
762
00:49:23,372 --> 00:49:27,898
The French-born and -fluent
Ronay was one of Jim's
most trusted confidants,
763
00:49:28,073 --> 00:49:32,381
dating back to 1964,
when they were UCLA roommates.
764
00:49:33,426 --> 00:49:38,692
No One Here Gets Out Alive
described Alain as one
of Jim's "mystery friends."
765
00:49:39,258 --> 00:49:42,739
Ronay's own words
from his 1991 article
766
00:49:42,913 --> 00:49:45,568
not only riffed
on marriage vows,
767
00:49:45,742 --> 00:49:51,618
but also could be interpreted
to suggest he and Jim rehearsed
the staging of Jim's death
768
00:49:51,792 --> 00:49:54,229
during that 1970 Paris trip.
769
00:49:55,143 --> 00:49:57,624
Jim trusted Alain implicitly.
770
00:49:57,798 --> 00:50:00,931
There are those who've
long believed they were lovers.
771
00:50:01,106 --> 00:50:04,935
Based on my December 7, 2012,
meeting with Alain,
772
00:50:05,110 --> 00:50:10,767
where a death mask, incredibly,
thumped against the wall
of his Hollywood apartment,
773
00:50:10,941 --> 00:50:13,379
which was like
a Morrison shrine,
774
00:50:13,553 --> 00:50:18,166
I've maintained hope
that he helped Jim find
the anonymous peace he craved.
775
00:50:32,050 --> 00:50:34,400
[Jeff] And are you sure
that it was ####,
776
00:50:34,574 --> 00:50:37,011
and maybe the guy's
not confusing him
with some other dude
777
00:50:37,185 --> 00:50:39,622
that #### with Jim,
being together in New York?
778
00:50:40,580 --> 00:50:42,799
I could be confusing it,
779
00:50:42,973 --> 00:50:45,411
but it was somebody
on ####'s level.
780
00:50:45,585 --> 00:50:47,717
Yeah. Was it a guy
named Todd Schiffman?
781
00:50:47,891 --> 00:50:49,806
- No, no, no.
- No?
782
00:50:49,980 --> 00:50:51,982
- Or Michael McClure, the poet?
- No.
783
00:50:52,157 --> 00:50:53,636
I've heard that
McClure and Jim--
784
00:50:53,810 --> 00:50:56,509
It was somebody involved
with the recording process.
785
00:50:57,945 --> 00:51:02,689
If you would be so kind as to
let us see you without your hat
786
00:51:02,863 --> 00:51:05,126
so we can see your face better,
'cause the--
787
00:51:05,300 --> 00:51:07,998
You know, the bill on your cap
covers your eyes like--
Just like mine does.
788
00:51:08,173 --> 00:51:09,565
Yeah. You're gonna be surprised.
789
00:51:09,739 --> 00:51:11,350
So there's a shadow.
There's a shadow.
790
00:51:11,524 --> 00:51:14,353
- You thought I was about 31, 32.
- Right?
791
00:51:14,527 --> 00:51:15,963
Oh, you lost it pretty early?
792
00:51:16,137 --> 00:51:18,705
- Yeah. Pretty much.
- Yeah. Right on.
793
00:51:18,879 --> 00:51:21,055
- And then--
- Little more each year.
794
00:51:21,229 --> 00:51:23,318
And then the other thing,
and I know this is absurd,
so if you're offended,
795
00:51:23,492 --> 00:51:26,495
please don't--
You don't have to do anything,
but we were wondering if--
796
00:51:26,669 --> 00:51:30,238
You know, because I thought
for the longest time you were
wearing brown contact lenses...
797
00:51:30,412 --> 00:51:32,153
Mm-hm.
798
00:51:32,327 --> 00:51:33,633
...if we could do a close-up
of your eyes without your hat?
799
00:51:33,807 --> 00:51:35,374
- Oh, of course not.
- Right?
800
00:51:37,071 --> 00:51:39,856
Awesome. Yeah,
there's your brown eyes, right?
801
00:51:40,030 --> 00:51:42,337
[Jeff laughs]
802
00:51:43,164 --> 00:51:44,470
- Fantastic.
- All right?
803
00:51:44,644 --> 00:51:47,037
- All right?
- Thank you so much.
804
00:51:47,212 --> 00:51:52,086
[Jeff] I feel like I'm viewing
blue eyes covered
by brown contact lenses.
805
00:51:52,260 --> 00:51:54,306
The pupils seem murky,
806
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,699
and the brown edges
are too perfect,
807
00:51:56,873 --> 00:52:00,573
with a blue ring encircling
the outside of the contacts.
808
00:52:01,748 --> 00:52:04,359
Do you see blue eyes?
809
00:52:21,768 --> 00:52:23,335
I flew back to L.A.
810
00:52:23,509 --> 00:52:26,860
with this absurd phrase
on a loop in my brain:
811
00:52:27,469 --> 00:52:32,082
"Tell me you're Jim Morrison
without telling me
you're Jim Morrison."
812
00:52:33,475 --> 00:52:35,216
I needed to talk with Cheryl
813
00:52:35,390 --> 00:52:40,178
about the possibility that Frank
actually could be... Jim.
814
00:52:42,180 --> 00:52:45,183
One of the sticking points
when first meeting Frank
815
00:52:45,357 --> 00:52:47,359
was that he had brown eyes.
816
00:52:47,533 --> 00:52:50,840
But he also had a blue ring
around the iris of his eyes.
817
00:52:51,406 --> 00:52:53,930
Ask any hardcore Morrison fan
818
00:52:54,104 --> 00:52:56,933
and they'll tell you
Jim had blue eyes,
819
00:52:57,107 --> 00:52:59,414
possibly even blue-gray.
820
00:53:12,558 --> 00:53:16,083
[Jeff] So I took a low-pixel,
a low-res, photo
821
00:53:16,257 --> 00:53:18,477
to an eye doctor here,
822
00:53:18,651 --> 00:53:20,261
- ophthalmologist.
- Mm-hm.
823
00:53:20,435 --> 00:53:23,221
She took one look and said,
"That's arcus senilis,"
824
00:53:23,395 --> 00:53:28,051
which is a condition
some older people have
related to cholesterol.
825
00:53:28,226 --> 00:53:31,664
So again, it's like, you think
you got it lying right there,
826
00:53:31,838 --> 00:53:34,623
and then it's always--
You're always just... You know?
827
00:53:34,797 --> 00:53:37,800
[Bombaugh] Yeah. I mean,
there's a lot of coincidences,
828
00:53:37,974 --> 00:53:39,237
a lot of coincidences,
829
00:53:39,411 --> 00:53:41,804
and a lot of just
really bizarre things.
830
00:53:41,978 --> 00:53:44,981
But I don't know. I...
831
00:53:46,287 --> 00:53:48,811
I can't, like,
neatly wrap it up,
832
00:53:48,985 --> 00:53:50,335
which really bugs me.
833
00:53:53,773 --> 00:53:56,254
[Jeff] When I first traveled
to interview Frank,
834
00:53:56,428 --> 00:53:58,038
we met at a diner.
835
00:53:58,212 --> 00:53:59,735
After talking for a while,
836
00:53:59,909 --> 00:54:02,260
he said he needed
to smoke a cigarette.
837
00:54:02,434 --> 00:54:06,786
I expected to watch him bolt
and disappear forever,
838
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:08,135
but he didn't.
839
00:54:09,049 --> 00:54:12,444
So when he wasn't looking,
I grabbed his water glass.
840
00:54:13,358 --> 00:54:15,490
And then Frank walked back in.
841
00:54:18,188 --> 00:54:21,191
Time to have it looked at
by a professional.
842
00:54:21,366 --> 00:54:24,194
[upbeat electronic
music playing]
843
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,341
My funding, like my energy,
is running on empty.
844
00:54:41,168 --> 00:54:44,737
So this may be my last hope
for a positive ID.
845
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,828
The forensic identification
specialist is Kurt Kuhn,
846
00:54:49,002 --> 00:54:51,221
who has over 40 years
of experience
847
00:54:51,396 --> 00:54:54,050
in civil and criminal casework.
848
00:55:16,246 --> 00:55:18,901
[Kuhn] The first part of
the process is to actually
look at the evidence item
849
00:55:19,075 --> 00:55:20,947
and make a determination
850
00:55:21,121 --> 00:55:24,385
if there's any actual
visible fingerprint ridge
structure there.
851
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:28,694
If there is, that needs
to be photographically
documented from the start
852
00:55:28,868 --> 00:55:30,609
because we don't know
what's gonna happen
853
00:55:30,783 --> 00:55:33,916
in regards to the actual
superglue process itself.
854
00:55:34,090 --> 00:55:36,745
Visual examination
on this piece of evidence:
855
00:55:37,311 --> 00:55:39,487
I can see some smudges.
856
00:55:39,661 --> 00:55:43,012
I didn't see anything
that was actually usable
fingerprint ridge structure.
857
00:55:43,186 --> 00:55:47,930
So the next process we're
gonna do is we're gonna prep
the superglue chamber.
858
00:55:48,583 --> 00:55:51,064
We're gonna use
a superglue pouch,
859
00:55:51,238 --> 00:55:54,284
which is a pouch
that has superglue,
860
00:55:54,459 --> 00:55:58,158
which technically
is cyanoacrylate esters,
861
00:55:58,332 --> 00:56:01,727
and it's combined with kind of
a petroleum-jelly product.
862
00:56:09,169 --> 00:56:12,694
And we're going to attach it to
part of the superglue chamber.
863
00:56:13,478 --> 00:56:15,523
And the fumes then
will basically...
864
00:56:17,220 --> 00:56:19,745
for lack of a better word,
I guess, fall down
865
00:56:19,919 --> 00:56:21,224
on the evidence item.
866
00:56:23,357 --> 00:56:27,709
Let me get the evidence item
and the control card in here.
867
00:56:27,883 --> 00:56:30,799
The control card puts
some impressions on the card,
868
00:56:30,973 --> 00:56:34,673
and again, this is
going to allow me
to make a determination
869
00:56:34,847 --> 00:56:38,328
as when there should have been
adequate development.
870
00:56:38,503 --> 00:56:40,940
Now, the superglue
process itself,
871
00:56:41,114 --> 00:56:45,553
the cyanoacrylate-ester fumes
adhere to an impression
872
00:56:45,727 --> 00:56:48,469
that may be on
the evidence item itself.
873
00:56:48,643 --> 00:56:53,082
Now, that impression is
typically either perspiration
or sebaceous oils,
874
00:56:53,256 --> 00:56:58,566
leaving kind of
a translucent semipermanent
impression on there.
875
00:56:58,740 --> 00:57:02,048
At that point in time,
if there is a fingerprint
that's developed
876
00:57:02,222 --> 00:57:05,355
we'll start doing some
photographic procedures on it.
877
00:57:05,530 --> 00:57:09,359
The process itself
can be anywhere from
a minimum of 45 minutes,
878
00:57:09,534 --> 00:57:10,970
and it could even
take longer than that.
879
00:57:11,144 --> 00:57:13,363
[ticking]
880
00:57:23,199 --> 00:57:27,073
The fuming process
has been going on for
about an hour and a half.
881
00:57:30,076 --> 00:57:32,687
So I'm gonna go ahead
and shut that down.
882
00:57:32,861 --> 00:57:36,561
I checked the control card
at 45 minutes.
883
00:57:37,300 --> 00:57:38,563
There was development.
884
00:57:38,737 --> 00:57:41,609
At about an hour,
there was development.
885
00:57:41,783 --> 00:57:43,568
And the last time I checked it,
886
00:57:43,742 --> 00:57:47,397
at an hour and 15 minutes
and an hour and 30 minutes,
887
00:57:47,572 --> 00:57:51,793
there was fairly significant
development on the control card.
888
00:57:52,490 --> 00:57:55,971
So now we'll see
what the evidence item
actually looks like.
889
00:58:00,759 --> 00:58:03,109
And with a little bit of just
oblique lighting, you can see
890
00:58:03,283 --> 00:58:09,594
that the control card
has got at least some kind of
usable fingerprints on it.
891
00:58:09,768 --> 00:58:14,642
So let's take the back--
The glass back over
under a little better lighting.
892
00:58:16,165 --> 00:58:18,559
[upbeat music playing]
893
00:58:55,291 --> 00:58:59,469
Well, there's a lot
of chemical reaction,
894
00:58:59,644 --> 00:59:01,341
or polymerization.
895
00:59:01,907 --> 00:59:03,517
The problem
with a drinking glass
896
00:59:03,691 --> 00:59:07,086
could very often be in the fact
that if it was damp...
897
00:59:08,435 --> 00:59:12,004
whatever... fingerprint residue,
898
00:59:12,178 --> 00:59:15,660
which would be either
perspiration or sebaceous oils,
899
00:59:15,834 --> 00:59:17,487
that was transferred
to the surface
900
00:59:17,662 --> 00:59:20,012
mixed with whatever
dampness was there.
901
00:59:20,186 --> 00:59:22,014
And I can see a lot of reaction,
902
00:59:22,188 --> 00:59:24,451
I can see a lot of areas
where it's been handled,
903
00:59:24,625 --> 00:59:28,020
but there is no usable
friction ridge structure
904
00:59:28,194 --> 00:59:33,503
or fingerprint detail
or fingerprint minutiae
present on the glass.
905
00:59:53,219 --> 00:59:55,961
[Jeff] As Jim once said
on a New York stage,
906
00:59:56,135 --> 00:59:58,920
"Well, everything is
fucked up as usual."
907
00:59:59,094 --> 01:00:02,097
Still, I plowed ahead
into DNA testing
908
01:00:02,271 --> 01:00:04,012
via the Jean Genet novel
909
01:00:04,186 --> 01:00:07,407
that Robyn Wurtele,
Jim's assistant, had given me.
910
01:00:08,190 --> 01:00:11,716
Robyn told me it had been
Jim's personal copy in Paris
911
01:00:11,890 --> 01:00:15,110
and had hardly been touched
in all the ensuing years.
912
01:00:16,938 --> 01:00:20,899
Forensic DNA expert Marc Taylor
had come highly recommended
913
01:00:21,073 --> 01:00:23,597
by Kurt Kuhn, and vice versa.
914
01:00:24,250 --> 01:00:27,819
Taylor's professional reputation
spoke for itself.
915
01:00:27,993 --> 01:00:29,864
Back in 1994,
916
01:00:30,038 --> 01:00:33,694
he declined involvement with
the O.J. Simpson murder case
917
01:00:33,868 --> 01:00:38,090
after he sensed corruption
and wanted no part of it.
918
01:00:48,361 --> 01:00:52,670
[Taylor] The DNA that comes off
of your hands gets on there
because you touch yourself.
919
01:00:52,844 --> 01:00:55,107
You rub your eyes,
you scratch your head,
920
01:00:55,281 --> 01:00:57,892
you rub the sides of your mouth.
921
01:00:58,066 --> 01:00:59,589
You pick up cells that way.
922
01:00:59,764 --> 01:01:01,635
That gets mixed up with the oils
923
01:01:01,809 --> 01:01:04,159
and the perspiration
that's on your hands.
924
01:01:04,333 --> 01:01:07,641
As we perspire, the perspiration
comes out to the surface,
925
01:01:07,815 --> 01:01:09,425
the water evaporates,
926
01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:12,428
and you end up with
a gooey kind of protein,
927
01:01:12,602 --> 01:01:15,083
this proteinaceous goo
that's on there.
928
01:01:15,257 --> 01:01:18,478
Then you transfer it
to other things that
you touch in that way.
929
01:01:18,652 --> 01:01:23,831
And so the-- Probably the most
common way we transfer our DNA
around is off of our hands.
930
01:01:24,005 --> 01:01:27,705
What we're looking for in a case
like this is that material
931
01:01:27,879 --> 01:01:30,708
that's basically the same
material that would
form fingerprints.
932
01:01:30,882 --> 01:01:35,016
We lift it off and can isolate
the DNA from it if it's present.
933
01:01:35,190 --> 01:01:37,584
There was some stuff--
Maybe some sticky stuff
934
01:01:38,150 --> 01:01:40,500
that looked like it was attached
to the front of it.
935
01:01:40,979 --> 01:01:42,676
And then there were
some streaks of things.
936
01:01:42,850 --> 01:01:44,547
It may be that something
got on there
937
01:01:44,722 --> 01:01:46,724
and it got shoved
into the bookshelf
938
01:01:46,898 --> 01:01:48,290
and had smeared it.
939
01:01:48,813 --> 01:01:51,511
Anytime we see something
that looks different,
940
01:01:51,685 --> 01:01:53,905
we collect that
as a separate swab,
941
01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:55,515
because the best thing
you can get
942
01:01:55,689 --> 01:01:58,126
is to get a single-source
profile off of something.
943
01:01:58,300 --> 01:02:01,521
And if you've got something
that got stuck on there
from one person's hands
944
01:02:01,695 --> 01:02:03,479
and we can see that
and swab it up,
945
01:02:03,653 --> 01:02:05,743
we might be able
to get a single-source
profile from that.
946
01:02:05,917 --> 01:02:09,094
I'm not seeing anything that
indicates to me that there is--
947
01:02:09,268 --> 01:02:12,053
"Oh, somebody's handled
this particular area,"
948
01:02:12,227 --> 01:02:14,621
how they would touch the pages
or anything like that.
949
01:02:14,795 --> 01:02:16,841
[Jeff] As Marc
and his assistant, Ann,
950
01:02:17,015 --> 01:02:18,973
bagged my DNA evidence,
951
01:02:19,147 --> 01:02:23,151
I went home feeling anxious
but cautiously optimistic.
952
01:02:27,068 --> 01:02:30,811
A few weeks later, I returned
to Marc Taylor's DNA lab,
953
01:02:30,985 --> 01:02:32,726
ready to learn the results.
954
01:02:33,379 --> 01:02:37,122
To say I was a jumble of nerves
would be an understatement.
955
01:02:45,173 --> 01:02:48,394
What we're seeing
at this point is we're seeing
956
01:02:50,570 --> 01:02:55,705
that there is what appears to be
a major donor on the book here.
957
01:02:57,098 --> 01:03:02,147
Now, clearly what we see is
the individual whose DNA
is on the glass
958
01:03:02,321 --> 01:03:06,281
is not the individual
who's a major donor on the book.
959
01:03:07,587 --> 01:03:09,502
When we look
at the minor donors,
960
01:03:09,676 --> 01:03:12,853
we see some consistency there.
961
01:03:13,027 --> 01:03:15,334
But it's very difficult
to determine
962
01:03:15,508 --> 01:03:18,032
because, again,
we do have degradation here.
963
01:03:18,206 --> 01:03:21,949
Now, degradation
is not unexpected
on something like a book
964
01:03:22,123 --> 01:03:23,864
because we're dealing
with a situation
965
01:03:24,038 --> 01:03:28,390
where this has been just sitting
around for a long, long time.
966
01:03:28,564 --> 01:03:31,959
And just the oxygen in the air
will degrade DNA with time.
967
01:03:32,133 --> 01:03:34,962
But as I said,
the individual from the glass
968
01:03:35,136 --> 01:03:37,312
is not the major donor
on the book.
969
01:03:37,486 --> 01:03:38,661
[Jeff] Okay.
970
01:03:45,277 --> 01:03:47,888
[Taylor] It gets confusing
when you get down
to these low levels
971
01:03:48,062 --> 01:03:50,108
because you have
low-level donors,
972
01:03:50,282 --> 01:03:54,068
and some are gonna
disappear at this level
because it's so degraded.
973
01:03:54,242 --> 01:03:57,245
This is sort of
the opposite of a match,
like a non-match, right?
974
01:03:57,419 --> 01:04:00,988
It's a non-match, but again,
I emphasize it's a non-match
975
01:04:01,162 --> 01:04:03,686
with regard to
the major donor on there.
976
01:04:03,861 --> 01:04:08,387
And that's where we would be
very curious whether that would
be your own DNA on the book, so.
977
01:04:20,529 --> 01:04:23,663
Oh, yeah, you wanna get the--?
My name on there?
978
01:04:24,794 --> 01:04:26,187
Hey, kids, it's me.
979
01:04:30,148 --> 01:04:32,715
[Jeff] To eliminate me
as the major donor,
980
01:04:32,890 --> 01:04:35,762
my DNA was swabbed
for a comparison.
981
01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:48,775
I once again headed back
to Los Angeles and waited.
982
01:04:49,558 --> 01:04:53,127
Finally, Marc called and told me
the results were ready.
983
01:04:53,301 --> 01:04:56,609
I was depleted,
emotionally and physically,
984
01:04:56,783 --> 01:05:00,047
but I had to know
if the major DNA donor
985
01:05:00,221 --> 01:05:03,094
on the Jean Genet novel was Jim,
986
01:05:03,268 --> 01:05:06,836
Frank, yours truly,
someone random,
987
01:05:07,011 --> 01:05:08,621
or all of the above.
988
01:05:11,015 --> 01:05:14,018
- [Jeff] Hello. How are you?
- Pretty good.
989
01:05:14,192 --> 01:05:15,671
- It's been a week.
- Thanks.
990
01:05:15,845 --> 01:05:17,325
Yeah.
991
01:05:17,499 --> 01:05:19,023
- [cameraman] Thank you.
- Hi. You're welcome.
992
01:05:21,112 --> 01:05:23,941
Give it to me
straight, doc. [chuckles]
993
01:05:25,464 --> 01:05:27,161
- Well--
- How long have I got to live?
994
01:05:27,335 --> 01:05:28,467
[chuckles]
995
01:05:35,953 --> 01:05:38,738
Well, we have a mixture
of DNA on the book,
996
01:05:38,912 --> 01:05:40,740
which isn't surprising at all.
997
01:05:41,349 --> 01:05:45,049
And we have what is
one primary profile
998
01:05:45,223 --> 01:05:46,659
that's the major profile,
999
01:05:46,833 --> 01:05:49,009
and that's consistent
on the different samples.
1000
01:05:49,183 --> 01:05:51,359
This is your reference sample
1001
01:05:51,533 --> 01:05:54,797
that we collected from you,
and this is your profile.
1002
01:05:54,972 --> 01:05:58,410
Everybody that we're
talking about here is male.
1003
01:05:58,584 --> 01:06:03,545
So the major profile
that we see on the book
1004
01:06:03,719 --> 01:06:05,852
is consistent with your profile.
1005
01:06:06,026 --> 01:06:08,202
And if you had picked up
the book and handled it,
1006
01:06:08,376 --> 01:06:11,162
especially in
a more recent time,
1007
01:06:11,336 --> 01:06:12,902
closer to when
we actually sampled it,
1008
01:06:13,077 --> 01:06:14,426
that makes sense
1009
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:16,384
that we're seeing you
as the number one.
1010
01:06:16,558 --> 01:06:17,995
And so the issue
that we're seeing
1011
01:06:18,169 --> 01:06:20,606
is we've got low-level alleles
1012
01:06:20,780 --> 01:06:24,610
that could come from
the individual on the glass,
1013
01:06:25,567 --> 01:06:28,440
but we also have low-level
alleles that could not come
1014
01:06:28,614 --> 01:06:30,703
from the individual
on the glass.
1015
01:06:30,877 --> 01:06:35,403
We do see areas where
we've got fairly sensitive
genetic locations,
1016
01:06:35,577 --> 01:06:38,841
where we would expect to see
his alleles showing up,
1017
01:06:39,494 --> 01:06:44,021
but they're not there on--
At some locations.
1018
01:06:44,195 --> 01:06:47,198
So when we're looking at this,
we end up in this area
1019
01:06:47,372 --> 01:06:49,852
where we've got
an inconclusive result.
1020
01:06:50,027 --> 01:06:54,422
Some alleles from
this individual are seen
in the background here,
1021
01:06:54,596 --> 01:06:58,470
but we know that
there would have to be
at least one other individual
1022
01:06:58,644 --> 01:07:02,996
to give us the alleles
that do not come from
the individual on the glass.
1023
01:07:04,084 --> 01:07:08,784
She said the chain of custody
is basically next to none.
1024
01:07:08,958 --> 01:07:11,135
In other words,
he gave her the book
1025
01:07:11,309 --> 01:07:13,746
when they were in Paris in 1971.
1026
01:07:14,703 --> 01:07:18,620
So I don't know if you have
further to go, or do you have
a final determination or...?
1027
01:07:18,794 --> 01:07:22,711
The final determination is
we see your DNA on this glass.
1028
01:07:22,885 --> 01:07:24,496
It's quite--
1029
01:07:24,670 --> 01:07:26,846
- On the book. Yeah.
- Excuse me, on the book, yeah.
1030
01:07:27,020 --> 01:07:30,241
We do not see any foreign DNA
on the glass--
1031
01:07:30,415 --> 01:07:32,852
That we can identify
as being foreign DNA.
1032
01:07:33,026 --> 01:07:38,336
And what we're looking at
on the book is a profile
1033
01:07:38,510 --> 01:07:43,297
which I suspect is a profile
from at least three people.
1034
01:07:44,255 --> 01:07:46,779
One major, yourself,
1035
01:07:46,953 --> 01:07:50,739
and at least two minor donors.
1036
01:07:50,913 --> 01:07:52,176
Could be even more than that.
1037
01:07:52,350 --> 01:07:54,743
There's no way
to determine that.
1038
01:07:54,917 --> 01:07:58,530
And that makes it
much more difficult, then,
to interpret what we've got.
1039
01:07:58,704 --> 01:08:01,010
We can't reasonably
make assumptions
1040
01:08:01,185 --> 01:08:03,709
that would allow us
to give a statistic for it.
1041
01:08:03,883 --> 01:08:04,927
Yeah.
1042
01:08:05,450 --> 01:08:07,191
So there's a chance--
1043
01:08:07,365 --> 01:08:09,062
You know, there's a chance for
everything or anything, I guess.
1044
01:08:09,236 --> 01:08:12,021
But there's a chance-- Obviously
I'm the major donor on the book.
1045
01:08:12,196 --> 01:08:13,110
Right.
1046
01:08:13,284 --> 01:08:14,850
There is a technical chance
1047
01:08:15,024 --> 01:08:18,724
that the woman who gifted me
the book is underneath me
1048
01:08:18,898 --> 01:08:21,292
as the second donor,
minor donor,
1049
01:08:21,466 --> 01:08:26,732
and then Jim potentially,
possibly, could be
the third donor below her.
1050
01:08:26,906 --> 01:08:27,776
That's possible.
1051
01:08:28,603 --> 01:08:31,258
[Jeff] Inconclusive again.
1052
01:08:32,041 --> 01:08:34,870
Fifty-year-old DNA
as a minor donor
1053
01:08:35,044 --> 01:08:39,048
unfortunately did not
yield the result I wanted.
1054
01:08:40,398 --> 01:08:42,574
Although nothing
can be ruled out,
1055
01:08:42,748 --> 01:08:46,882
scientific evidence,
at this point, seems unlikely.
1056
01:08:50,277 --> 01:08:55,152
The fact that photos
of Jim and Frank
contained numerous matches
1057
01:08:55,326 --> 01:08:56,979
left my mind reeling.
1058
01:08:58,198 --> 01:09:01,636
But I also recognized that my
vantage point had become clouded
1059
01:09:01,810 --> 01:09:04,552
once I began to care
for Frank as a friend.
1060
01:09:06,337 --> 01:09:10,428
After a half century,
anyone can undergo vast changes
1061
01:09:10,602 --> 01:09:13,387
in their physical
and psychological makeup,
1062
01:09:14,083 --> 01:09:15,868
especially if
they spent that time
1063
01:09:16,042 --> 01:09:19,437
living out Jim's answer
to Salli Stevenson
1064
01:09:19,611 --> 01:09:22,440
when she asked, during one
of his final interviews,
1065
01:09:22,614 --> 01:09:26,313
what his life would entail
if he had the whole
thing to do over.
1066
01:09:27,053 --> 01:09:31,666
His reply, quote, "A quiet,
undemonstrative little artist
1067
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:34,234
plodding away
in his own garden."
1068
01:09:36,541 --> 01:09:41,067
In any case, so many of Jim
and Frank's traits dovetailed
1069
01:09:41,241 --> 01:09:44,897
that finally, three
of Jim's former girlfriends
1070
01:09:45,071 --> 01:09:46,855
agreed to take part in
1071
01:09:47,900 --> 01:09:50,511
an experiment
in facial recognition.
1072
01:09:51,947 --> 01:09:53,993
So, my dear,
you're going to be opening...
1073
01:09:54,167 --> 01:09:55,429
- This one.
- ...this side first.
1074
01:09:55,603 --> 01:09:57,736
- The right. Your right.
- Okay.
1075
01:09:57,953 --> 01:10:01,043
Oh, dear. What are you
up to now? [laughs]
1076
01:10:01,218 --> 01:10:05,047
[man] So we're gonna have you
open up the right side first.
1077
01:10:06,745 --> 01:10:09,313
- And then the left side. Okay?
- Right side first. Okay.
1078
01:10:14,492 --> 01:10:15,623
That's John Densmore.
1079
01:10:17,364 --> 01:10:18,844
Uh, it's John.
1080
01:10:19,627 --> 01:10:21,629
- Oh, my gosh.
- [Jeff] So who is that?
1081
01:10:21,803 --> 01:10:23,065
John Densmore.
1082
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:24,893
Looks a little startled.
1083
01:10:25,807 --> 01:10:26,895
Looks pretty good, though.
1084
01:10:27,069 --> 01:10:28,332
Oh, my God.
1085
01:10:29,202 --> 01:10:30,290
Wow.
1086
01:10:30,464 --> 01:10:32,771
- Okay, left side?
- Yeah. Right.
1087
01:10:37,602 --> 01:10:40,126
And, oh, my goodness,
who is that?
1088
01:10:41,301 --> 01:10:42,650
Um...
1089
01:10:42,824 --> 01:10:43,912
[Jeff] Who do you think it is?
1090
01:10:44,086 --> 01:10:46,263
Oh, my God.
1091
01:10:47,264 --> 01:10:49,788
Now, do you know who that might
be on the other side there?
1092
01:10:49,962 --> 01:10:51,355
It's not Robby.
1093
01:10:51,529 --> 01:10:52,878
It's gotta be Ray.
1094
01:10:53,661 --> 01:10:56,142
[clock chiming]
1095
01:10:56,316 --> 01:10:58,057
[Jeff] And the chimes go on cue.
1096
01:10:58,231 --> 01:10:59,276
Um...
1097
01:11:04,019 --> 01:11:05,847
It's not. I don't...
1098
01:11:07,893 --> 01:11:08,937
Nice beard.
1099
01:11:09,547 --> 01:11:11,026
Give me a hint.
1100
01:11:11,592 --> 01:11:14,247
[Jeff] I'll just ask you,
do you think
there's any chance...
1101
01:11:14,421 --> 01:11:16,815
- It could be Jim?
- ...that it could be Jim?
1102
01:11:16,989 --> 01:11:19,296
I-- I-- Wow.
1103
01:11:19,470 --> 01:11:21,907
I was gonna say that,
but it can't be.
1104
01:11:22,603 --> 01:11:25,171
- Well, could be?
- It can't be.
1105
01:11:25,345 --> 01:11:28,392
Those eyes look--
And so does the nose.
1106
01:11:29,393 --> 01:11:30,742
Um, that could be Jim.
1107
01:11:30,916 --> 01:11:33,310
Where in the hell
did you find this?
1108
01:11:39,403 --> 01:11:40,404
Really?
1109
01:11:43,276 --> 01:11:45,844
Like that? Oh, my gosh.
1110
01:11:49,151 --> 01:11:51,415
That's the Jim I remember,
right there.
1111
01:11:51,589 --> 01:11:52,677
That's how he looked
when you knew him?
1112
01:11:52,851 --> 01:11:53,765
Yes.
1113
01:11:53,939 --> 01:11:54,983
Okay.
1114
01:11:58,204 --> 01:11:59,510
Oh, my goodness.
1115
01:11:59,684 --> 01:12:01,338
Definitely the nose
looks that way.
1116
01:12:03,557 --> 01:12:05,037
Same thing with the cheekbones.
1117
01:12:05,646 --> 01:12:07,256
This guy has brown eyes.
1118
01:12:08,780 --> 01:12:10,347
Jim's eyes were blue.
1119
01:12:12,044 --> 01:12:15,656
Oh, my God.
Where did you guys find this?
1120
01:12:17,223 --> 01:12:18,267
Gosh.
1121
01:12:20,008 --> 01:12:21,488
That's really strange.
1122
01:12:22,359 --> 01:12:23,534
That literally could be Jim.
1123
01:12:23,708 --> 01:12:25,884
I mean, that is ridiculous,
but yes.
1124
01:12:27,059 --> 01:12:29,627
[Jeff] Do you think that's
a 73-year-old Jim Morrison?
1125
01:12:29,801 --> 01:12:30,758
It could be.
1126
01:12:30,932 --> 01:12:32,456
I mean, look at the eyes.
1127
01:12:32,934 --> 01:12:35,807
And what is John
hanging around with this guy?
1128
01:12:35,981 --> 01:12:38,853
Really hard to tell
with the hat, um...
1129
01:12:39,724 --> 01:12:43,467
Ooh, it kind of, like,
brings the tears to my eyes.
1130
01:12:45,294 --> 01:12:46,252
Wow.
1131
01:12:46,426 --> 01:12:47,427
[Jeff chuckles]
1132
01:12:48,907 --> 01:12:50,343
What about the mole?
1133
01:12:51,692 --> 01:12:53,825
[Jeff] I believe that was
the first thing to go.
1134
01:12:53,999 --> 01:12:56,480
Easy outpatient removal.
1135
01:12:56,654 --> 01:12:59,004
I don't-- I thought
it might be him, actually,
1136
01:12:59,178 --> 01:13:00,745
but then I didn't
wanna say anything,
1137
01:13:00,919 --> 01:13:03,312
'cause I thought,
"That'll sound so stupid."
1138
01:13:03,965 --> 01:13:06,228
Well, there is some match.
I mean...
1139
01:13:07,316 --> 01:13:12,974
But this guy really
looks a lot like Jim.
1140
01:13:15,455 --> 01:13:19,111
Just base on-- Based on
the intensity of the eyes...
1141
01:13:23,420 --> 01:13:27,511
- When was this taken?
- [Jeff] Roughly about 2014.
1142
01:13:28,468 --> 01:13:31,515
The reflection in the eye...
1143
01:13:34,039 --> 01:13:36,955
doesn't seem like the reflection
that you would see
1144
01:13:37,129 --> 01:13:38,347
in a human being's eye.
1145
01:13:38,522 --> 01:13:40,567
It seems like
it could be a lens.
1146
01:13:40,741 --> 01:13:42,308
[sighs]
1147
01:13:42,482 --> 01:13:44,353
[Jeff] Sorry, I know this is
a lot to throw at you,
1148
01:13:44,528 --> 01:13:46,878
but now you know why I
couldn't tell you on the phone.
1149
01:13:47,052 --> 01:13:48,967
Because I would have
ruined the surprise.
1150
01:13:49,141 --> 01:13:50,185
Surprise?
1151
01:13:50,359 --> 01:13:52,492
[Jeff] Surprise! We wanted to--
1152
01:13:52,666 --> 01:13:54,929
"Surprise" is putting it mildly.
1153
01:13:55,103 --> 01:13:58,629
The first thing that I thought
was the nose, definitely,
1154
01:13:58,803 --> 01:14:00,761
and then the cheekbones.
1155
01:14:00,935 --> 01:14:04,591
Ear, yes. Nose, not so sure.
1156
01:14:04,765 --> 01:14:06,680
God, I wish
I could see his mouth.
1157
01:14:07,159 --> 01:14:10,336
- That's really uncanny.
- [Jeff] Yeah.
1158
01:14:11,163 --> 01:14:14,601
[man] That's what the nickname
of this movie's become, Uncanny.
1159
01:14:14,775 --> 01:14:16,037
[Jeff]
Would you say
it's uncanny?
1160
01:14:16,211 --> 01:14:18,039
Very uncanny.
1161
01:14:18,213 --> 01:14:19,911
And the very idea that John's
standing next to him. [laughs]
1162
01:14:20,085 --> 01:14:23,262
It's like, "Okay, guys,
what's going on here?"
1163
01:14:26,526 --> 01:14:27,875
[sighs]
1164
01:14:28,049 --> 01:14:30,443
It's still--
It's absolutely fascinating.
1165
01:14:32,837 --> 01:14:35,361
Yeah, I wouldn't put it past
the old bastard to do it.
1166
01:14:37,624 --> 01:14:38,712
[exhales]
1167
01:14:41,062 --> 01:14:43,587
How did you not just jump
out of your skin?
1168
01:14:45,197 --> 01:14:46,677
- [Jeff] I still don't--
- How did you hold it together?
1169
01:14:46,851 --> 01:14:48,156
I still don't know.
1170
01:14:48,330 --> 01:14:50,507
[Jeff] After 50 years,
1171
01:14:50,681 --> 01:14:54,075
the expert ladies
each saw what I saw,
1172
01:14:54,249 --> 01:14:58,645
a haunting resemblance
between Jim and Frank.
1173
01:15:00,342 --> 01:15:02,214
- [man] Are you okay?
- I can't swallow.
1174
01:15:02,388 --> 01:15:03,650
- You okay?
- Yeah.
1175
01:15:03,824 --> 01:15:05,043
You want some water
or something?
1176
01:15:05,217 --> 01:15:07,132
- No, I'm fine. Uh-huh.
- [Jeff] You sure?
1177
01:15:07,306 --> 01:15:11,440
- How about that shot of tequila?
- Yeah, take that. Absolutely.
1178
01:15:11,615 --> 01:15:13,486
- I really need it now.
- [Jeff] There you go.
1179
01:15:13,660 --> 01:15:14,531
Oh, God.
1180
01:15:20,406 --> 01:15:24,541
[Jeff] Do you, Frank ####, think
Jim Morrison is dead or alive?
1181
01:15:25,890 --> 01:15:28,588
- What's your opinion?
- I have no idea.
1182
01:15:29,154 --> 01:15:32,636
And, you know,
if anybody would pull it off,
1183
01:15:32,810 --> 01:15:34,028
it would be him.
1184
01:15:34,202 --> 01:15:36,988
I don't think
he needed adulation.
1185
01:15:37,902 --> 01:15:40,600
[Jeff] I feel like this is
a confession from Jim,
1186
01:15:40,774 --> 01:15:43,777
who's been hiding
in plain sight for decades,
1187
01:15:43,951 --> 01:15:46,345
where no one would expect
a maintenance man
1188
01:15:46,519 --> 01:15:48,260
to have been the front man
1189
01:15:48,434 --> 01:15:52,177
for one of the most important
rock bands of the 1960s.
1190
01:15:52,351 --> 01:15:55,572
Could this really be
Jim Morrison?
1191
01:15:55,746 --> 01:15:58,313
For the record here,
for the fans,
1192
01:15:58,487 --> 01:16:00,794
as part of my research into you,
1193
01:16:00,968 --> 01:16:04,015
I have to ask you formally:
Are you Jim Morrison?
1194
01:16:04,581 --> 01:16:07,584
I am not Jim Morrison,
except I am in the--
1195
01:16:07,758 --> 01:16:10,717
I love the song
by Jimmy Cliff:
1196
01:16:10,891 --> 01:16:13,546
"We all are one.
We are the same person."
1197
01:16:15,026 --> 01:16:16,941
- [Jeff] Right on.
- That's one way to look at it.
1198
01:16:17,115 --> 01:16:20,640
[Jeff] Frank's response
haunted me to my core.
1199
01:16:20,814 --> 01:16:25,210
I felt totally in sync with
Jim's legendary mind games,
1200
01:16:25,384 --> 01:16:28,735
but with a more mature
and optimistic twist.
1201
01:16:29,736 --> 01:16:32,783
In Jimmy Cliff's song
"We All Are One,"
1202
01:16:32,957 --> 01:16:35,612
Cliff references
the "universal world."
1203
01:16:36,134 --> 01:16:39,833
Jim famously sang
of the "universal mind."
1204
01:16:40,007 --> 01:16:45,447
Was Frank's answer
his way of letting Jim
have his cake and eat it too?
1205
01:16:45,622 --> 01:16:47,754
Whether he slipped
into anonymity
1206
01:16:47,928 --> 01:16:50,757
or died, as per
the official account,
1207
01:16:50,931 --> 01:16:53,412
my goal is to reveal new facets
1208
01:16:53,586 --> 01:16:56,241
of the black diamond
that is Jim.
1209
01:16:56,415 --> 01:16:59,853
Wherever he is,
I hope he's found peace.
1210
01:17:00,854 --> 01:17:04,902
And while I may not have
convinced you that Frank is Jim,
1211
01:17:05,076 --> 01:17:08,906
I hope you've come to appreciate
James Douglas Morrison,
1212
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:12,474
the timeless artist
and human being.
1213
01:17:12,649 --> 01:17:15,434
And yet, if Frank is not Jim,
1214
01:17:15,608 --> 01:17:19,656
how do you explain
all of these coincidences?
1215
01:17:20,569 --> 01:17:22,920
[upbeat music playing]
1216
01:17:39,023 --> 01:17:40,633
[Frank] I am not Jim Morrison.
1217
01:17:41,634 --> 01:17:44,332
We all are one.
We are the same person.
1218
01:17:49,511 --> 01:17:51,383
[Jeff] I've studied
Jim Morrison's life
1219
01:17:51,557 --> 01:17:53,037
and reported death
1220
01:17:53,211 --> 01:17:54,865
for nearly 40 years,
1221
01:17:55,039 --> 01:17:57,911
since I first read
No One Here Gets Out Alive .
1222
01:17:58,433 --> 01:18:00,827
When I add that knowledge
to what I learned
1223
01:18:01,001 --> 01:18:03,482
from the nearly
1000 people I contacted
1224
01:18:03,656 --> 01:18:07,660
and the hundreds I interviewed,
my personal assessment:
1225
01:18:08,226 --> 01:18:13,187
James Douglas Morrison,
amazingly, did fake his death
1226
01:18:13,361 --> 01:18:18,497
in Paris, France,
on or around July 3rd, 1971.
1227
01:18:19,193 --> 01:18:21,761
Of course, as grim
as it may sound,
1228
01:18:21,935 --> 01:18:24,329
exhumation of
the Père-Lachaise grave
1229
01:18:24,503 --> 01:18:29,682
and DNA testing is the only way
to prove the real truth.
1230
01:18:30,248 --> 01:18:35,079
But as Jim's grave
has long been one of Paris'
top tourist attractions
1231
01:18:35,253 --> 01:18:38,865
and one of the keys
to his enduring following,
1232
01:18:39,039 --> 01:18:42,826
the Morrison powers that be
apparently plan
to stay complacent
1233
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:47,178
while Jim's reality
remains... a mystery.
1234
01:19:18,949 --> 01:19:24,911
♪ Our electric friends
Just pretend ♪
1235
01:19:25,085 --> 01:19:30,047
♪ Our electric friends
Just pre-- ♪
1236
01:19:43,364 --> 01:19:49,196
♪ Tell me again
why, where, when ♪
1237
01:19:49,370 --> 01:19:55,289
♪ Should I delete
Or hit send? ♪
1238
01:19:55,463 --> 01:20:01,165
♪ Element bend
See how you trend ♪
1239
01:20:01,339 --> 01:20:07,171
♪ Shall we deny or unfriend? ♪
1240
01:20:10,130 --> 01:20:15,919
♪ Tell me again
why, where, when ♪
1241
01:20:16,093 --> 01:20:21,881
♪ Should I delete
Or hit send? ♪
1242
01:20:22,055 --> 01:20:27,887
♪ Goodbye last band
See how you trend ♪
1243
01:20:28,061 --> 01:20:33,937
♪ Shall we deny or unfriend? ♪
104238
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