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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:12,424 --> 00:00:15,079 [ambient music playing] 2 00:00:59,776 --> 00:01:01,604 [Jeff] Sunday, July 4th. 3 00:01:01,778 --> 00:01:03,997 According to the Max Fink transcript, 4 00:01:04,172 --> 00:01:07,000 Los Angeles private investigator John O'Grady, 5 00:01:07,175 --> 00:01:09,873 who'd worked for Jim since 1968, 6 00:01:10,047 --> 00:01:15,705 arrived in Paris 48 hours before Doors manager Bill Siddons. 7 00:01:15,879 --> 00:01:17,446 Monday, July 5th. 8 00:01:17,620 --> 00:01:20,536 Two of England's major rock newspapers 9 00:01:20,710 --> 00:01:23,452 called Elektra Records' offices in London, 10 00:01:23,626 --> 00:01:26,977 wanting to know if Jim really was dead. 11 00:01:30,415 --> 00:01:34,202 Clive Selwood called Elektra's offices in France, 12 00:01:34,376 --> 00:01:38,423 but Elektra France hadn't even known Jim was in Paris, 13 00:01:38,597 --> 00:01:40,904 - let alone deceased. - [phone ringing] 14 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,735 Selwood also phoned the Paris police 15 00:01:45,909 --> 00:01:48,477 and the American embassy in France, 16 00:01:48,651 --> 00:01:53,134 but apparently neither had been contacted by any French morgue. 17 00:01:54,222 --> 00:01:55,962 The plot thickened. 18 00:01:56,137 --> 00:01:59,009 Selwood, who later went on the record with his belief 19 00:01:59,183 --> 00:02:01,881 that Jim faked his death, called Siddons 20 00:02:02,055 --> 00:02:04,710 at 4:30 a.m. Los Angeles time. 21 00:02:05,276 --> 00:02:07,148 Siddons brushed Selwood off 22 00:02:07,322 --> 00:02:11,369 because Jim had "died" a number of times in the press. 23 00:02:11,891 --> 00:02:14,633 Siddons attempted to sleep, but when he couldn't, 24 00:02:14,807 --> 00:02:19,638 he allegedly phoned Jim's flat around 2 p.m. Paris time. 25 00:02:19,812 --> 00:02:21,423 No one answered. 26 00:02:21,597 --> 00:02:24,991 He went back to bed and later redialed Jim's number. 27 00:02:25,166 --> 00:02:29,518 Siddons maintained, on that attempt, Pam answered the phone. 28 00:02:29,692 --> 00:02:33,304 Some sources have Pam telling Siddons Jim wasn't dead, 29 00:02:33,478 --> 00:02:36,742 while others claim she told Siddons Jim had died. 30 00:02:36,916 --> 00:02:41,051 In both scenarios, Pam apparently broke down in tears. 31 00:02:41,225 --> 00:02:45,882 Siddons told Pam he'd be on the next flight from L.A. to Paris. 32 00:02:46,056 --> 00:02:51,017 He arrived Tuesday, July 6th, at 6:30 a.m. Paris time. 33 00:02:51,192 --> 00:02:55,631 He got coffee and waited until 9 a.m. to knock on Pam's door. 34 00:02:56,284 --> 00:03:00,766 Siddons said he was met by Pam and Jim's personal assistant, 35 00:03:00,940 --> 00:03:02,899 who's remained a shadowy presence 36 00:03:03,073 --> 00:03:05,380 over the last half century. 37 00:03:05,554 --> 00:03:08,774 Her name was Robyn Wurtele, 38 00:03:08,948 --> 00:03:14,693 and she possessed the mind-boggling details I had chased for decades. 39 00:03:21,657 --> 00:03:24,660 [haunting music playing] 40 00:03:30,405 --> 00:03:34,757 [Jeff] Robyn seemed desperate to alleviate her albatross necklace, 41 00:03:34,931 --> 00:03:39,196 which she did by giving answers in the form of cryptic hints, 42 00:03:39,370 --> 00:03:41,633 including this mind bomb. 43 00:03:41,807 --> 00:03:45,985 Quote, "At one point, Pam had Max draw up a document 44 00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:48,466 that made me power of attorney 45 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,426 in the event that anything happened to her." 46 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,776 If this were a game of Clue, 47 00:03:53,950 --> 00:03:58,259 the main suspect would be Miss Wurtele in the study with the signature, 48 00:03:58,433 --> 00:04:00,696 the opposite of murder. 49 00:04:02,132 --> 00:04:05,527 I'd been trying to reach Robyn since 1996. 50 00:04:06,223 --> 00:04:09,226 That search became its own two-decade-long odyssey. 51 00:04:10,140 --> 00:04:13,448 Fortunately, the 20-year benchmark proved fruitful, 52 00:04:13,622 --> 00:04:17,843 especially after hearing Robyn tell me things like, quote, 53 00:04:18,017 --> 00:04:22,065 "Jim went off and did his thing, and we went to Sausalito," 54 00:04:22,239 --> 00:04:26,504 or, quote, "He had changed his whole way of thinking." 55 00:04:26,678 --> 00:04:31,683 Robyn, in 2016, paved my way to Frank X. 56 00:04:39,996 --> 00:04:42,303 Robyn agreed to appear on-camera, 57 00:04:42,477 --> 00:04:45,044 but only in her sunglasses. 58 00:04:45,218 --> 00:04:49,135 She admitted she knows far more about Jim's alleged death, 59 00:04:49,310 --> 00:04:50,963 and told me, quote, 60 00:04:51,137 --> 00:04:53,705 "If he asked me not to say anything to you, 61 00:04:53,879 --> 00:04:56,621 then I can't say anything, can I?" 62 00:04:56,795 --> 00:05:00,321 My jaw needed to be removed from the floor. 63 00:05:02,366 --> 00:05:05,238 I asked Robyn if Jim faked his death. 64 00:05:05,413 --> 00:05:09,939 She replied, "That's the secret I'm keeping to myself." 65 00:05:10,113 --> 00:05:13,682 So I asked if she helped Jim fake his death, 66 00:05:13,856 --> 00:05:17,163 and she told me she was hired to order furniture, 67 00:05:17,338 --> 00:05:19,601 which never happened. 68 00:05:19,775 --> 00:05:24,562 Robyn kindly gave me a collection of never-before-seen color slides 69 00:05:24,736 --> 00:05:30,612 which show she and Pam giving Jim and Pam's dog, Sage, a bath in Sausalito. 70 00:05:30,786 --> 00:05:34,311 The slides are stamped "August 1972," 71 00:05:34,485 --> 00:05:38,359 13 months after Jim's reported death. 72 00:05:38,533 --> 00:05:40,448 When I pressed her about Jim, 73 00:05:40,622 --> 00:05:44,713 Robyn said he was coming for dinner when he "disappeared." 74 00:05:44,887 --> 00:05:46,976 And in lieu of a formal interview, 75 00:05:47,150 --> 00:05:51,676 she provided, in her own voice, this quote by Oscar Wilde. 76 00:05:51,850 --> 00:05:54,766 [Robyn] None knew so well as I For he who lives 77 00:05:54,940 --> 00:05:58,727 More lives than one More deaths than one must die. 78 00:05:59,902 --> 00:06:02,687 [Jeff] Robyn continued to blow my mind. 79 00:06:03,514 --> 00:06:07,126 She even said, "You're so very close now, Jeff." 80 00:06:07,300 --> 00:06:10,347 I replied, "You mean finishing the film 81 00:06:10,521 --> 00:06:13,437 or proving that Jim faked his death?" 82 00:06:13,611 --> 00:06:16,440 She laughed a nervous laugh. 83 00:06:18,964 --> 00:06:21,184 [slow electronic music playing] 84 00:06:32,325 --> 00:06:34,415 I couldn't wait to get home 85 00:06:34,589 --> 00:06:38,506 and take a closer look at the slides Robyn gave me. 86 00:06:40,029 --> 00:06:41,944 Here is the shot of Robyn, 87 00:06:42,118 --> 00:06:45,382 which I had enlarged by a professional photo lab. 88 00:06:46,818 --> 00:06:49,168 Blowing up the vintage color slide 89 00:06:49,342 --> 00:06:51,519 that Ms. Wurtele had gifted to me 90 00:06:51,693 --> 00:06:53,782 revealed something fascinating 91 00:06:53,956 --> 00:06:57,873 reflected in the left lens of her sunglasses. 92 00:06:59,788 --> 00:07:02,225 The image is fuzzy, 93 00:07:02,399 --> 00:07:07,709 but there appear to be two distinct human figures standing side by side, 94 00:07:07,883 --> 00:07:10,407 a taller male with long hair 95 00:07:10,581 --> 00:07:15,107 next to a shorter female, also with long hair. 96 00:07:19,460 --> 00:07:23,289 When I asked Robyn about the figures reflected in her sunglasses 97 00:07:23,464 --> 00:07:25,814 in the summer of 1972, 98 00:07:25,988 --> 00:07:30,340 she flatly said, "I never should have given you those slides." 99 00:07:31,428 --> 00:07:33,648 Long convinced of a cover-up, 100 00:07:33,822 --> 00:07:36,215 I was reminded of another thing she told me 101 00:07:36,389 --> 00:07:40,524 regarding Bill Siddons' claim that Jim's coffin was sealed. 102 00:07:40,698 --> 00:07:45,094 Quote, "That was Bill's one mistake, wasn't it?" 103 00:07:48,053 --> 00:07:53,755 Remember how a number of Morrison insiders were friendly with Frank X on Facebook? 104 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:59,021 Hervé Muller was one of Jim's few confidants in Paris. 105 00:07:59,195 --> 00:08:02,981 For nearly five years, I did not receive a reply 106 00:08:03,155 --> 00:08:06,332 to my private Facebook messages to Hervé. 107 00:08:06,507 --> 00:08:09,553 Finally, I asked Frank if he'd put in a good word for me, 108 00:08:09,727 --> 00:08:13,731 and he replied, quote, "I'll see what I can do." 109 00:08:13,905 --> 00:08:16,952 Then, as if Frank had snapped his fingers, 110 00:08:17,126 --> 00:08:19,955 Hervé messaged me the next day. 111 00:08:20,608 --> 00:08:22,392 [Jeff laughs] 112 00:08:22,566 --> 00:08:27,092 And then I found out you were Facebook friends with Hervé-- 113 00:08:27,266 --> 00:08:29,051 I don't know if it's pronounced "Muller." 114 00:08:29,225 --> 00:08:31,009 - Muller. - Muller, right? 115 00:08:31,183 --> 00:08:33,011 - Who knew Jim in Paris. - Right. 116 00:08:33,185 --> 00:08:35,361 And I saw where he said, "Oh, I miss you so much," 117 00:08:35,536 --> 00:08:36,972 and you said, "Oh, I miss you too," 118 00:08:37,146 --> 00:08:38,364 and I put two and two together, and I thought, 119 00:08:38,539 --> 00:08:40,105 "These guys are-- That must be Jim--" 120 00:08:40,279 --> 00:08:43,195 We're really like-- Like soul brothers. 121 00:08:58,907 --> 00:09:01,474 I was haunted by Robyn's revelations 122 00:09:01,649 --> 00:09:04,129 about Jim's brief time in Paris, 123 00:09:04,303 --> 00:09:07,785 and I remained convinced she and a few others, 124 00:09:07,959 --> 00:09:09,700 possibly including Hervé, 125 00:09:09,874 --> 00:09:12,137 helped Jim pull the Rimbaud. 126 00:09:13,922 --> 00:09:15,880 She told me, quote, 127 00:09:16,054 --> 00:09:19,797 "He hadn't broken up with Pam. He was planning the next step. 128 00:09:19,971 --> 00:09:21,973 He and Pam had a lovely parting, 129 00:09:22,147 --> 00:09:25,760 and what Jim decided to do after that was up to him." 130 00:09:28,719 --> 00:09:31,592 [in French] 131 00:09:44,909 --> 00:09:49,958 I think he actually wanted to get back into some serious writing. 132 00:09:50,132 --> 00:09:53,614 And maybe he'd outgrown-- 133 00:09:53,788 --> 00:09:55,877 Maybe the Doors thing had been enough, 134 00:09:56,051 --> 00:09:59,054 and whether he was 100 percent done, 135 00:09:59,228 --> 00:10:02,971 I think not, but I think he just needed a break. 136 00:10:04,146 --> 00:10:07,105 I know he wanted to go to Paris. I know he loved Paris. 137 00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:12,023 I know that that was where he could really feel like he could be free and be a poet. 138 00:10:12,197 --> 00:10:17,681 It was like he transcended into all the poets that had ever lived in Paris, 139 00:10:17,855 --> 00:10:21,554 and he could see himself in that-- Those cafés and things. 140 00:10:21,729 --> 00:10:24,209 That was his feeling. 141 00:10:24,383 --> 00:10:29,562 He could really relate to that. He could feel connected. 142 00:10:30,128 --> 00:10:35,003 It is possible that he really did think he could get clean and dry 143 00:10:35,177 --> 00:10:37,396 and be a poet when he went to Paris. 144 00:10:37,570 --> 00:10:40,530 You know, I heard "Oh, you know, Jim's really getting it together in Paris. 145 00:10:40,704 --> 00:10:44,055 You know, he's slimmed down and looking good again." 146 00:10:44,229 --> 00:10:48,407 [Jeff] Had Jim engaged the final phase of his ten-year plan? 147 00:10:48,581 --> 00:10:51,497 [in French] 148 00:11:21,266 --> 00:11:22,920 ♪ Bird of prey ♪ 149 00:11:23,616 --> 00:11:26,010 ♪ Flying high ♪ 150 00:11:26,184 --> 00:11:28,186 ♪ Flying high ♪ 151 00:11:29,753 --> 00:11:32,234 ♪ Am I going to die? ♪ 152 00:11:41,983 --> 00:11:45,551 [Jeff] These are said to be the last photos of Jim. 153 00:11:45,726 --> 00:11:51,557 They're from a day trip to Saint-Leu-d'Esserent on June 28th, 1971, 154 00:11:51,732 --> 00:11:55,997 where Jim's Super 8 film camera made a final public appearance. 155 00:11:56,867 --> 00:11:59,348 The pictures were taken by Alain Ronay, 156 00:11:59,522 --> 00:12:02,786 Jim's closest friend from his UCLA days, 157 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,398 who lived with him in Paris during that month of June. 158 00:12:07,922 --> 00:12:10,620 According to the official account, 159 00:12:10,794 --> 00:12:13,710 four days later, on Friday, July 2nd, 160 00:12:13,884 --> 00:12:17,714 Alain claimed Jim was ill with hiccups and spasms. 161 00:12:19,281 --> 00:12:21,979 While the two were seated at a café, 162 00:12:22,153 --> 00:12:26,244 Ronay claimed he saw a death mask on Jim's face. 163 00:12:26,810 --> 00:12:29,465 This scenario is contradicted by Wurtele, 164 00:12:29,639 --> 00:12:31,336 who told me, verbatim, 165 00:12:31,510 --> 00:12:34,731 "Jim was no alcoholic when I knew him in Paris, 166 00:12:34,905 --> 00:12:36,777 and Pam was no junkie." 167 00:12:37,342 --> 00:12:40,781 Robyn claimed Jim was not sick on his last day. 168 00:12:40,955 --> 00:12:42,957 She said Ronay lied. 169 00:12:43,131 --> 00:12:45,698 As per Ronay's on-the-record account, 170 00:12:45,873 --> 00:12:48,789 he left Jim to meet Agnès Varda for dinner. 171 00:12:49,267 --> 00:12:51,574 As for what really happened in Paris, 172 00:12:51,748 --> 00:12:54,446 an exasperated Robyn said, quote, 173 00:12:54,620 --> 00:12:57,319 "I hope you can appreciate the position I'm in." 174 00:12:58,363 --> 00:13:00,801 Pam stated she and Jim went to dinner 175 00:13:00,975 --> 00:13:03,194 and a late-night showing of the movie Pursued. 176 00:13:03,368 --> 00:13:06,632 [opening theme from Pursued playing] 177 00:13:06,807 --> 00:13:09,418 They returned to their flat around 1 a.m., 178 00:13:09,592 --> 00:13:11,550 where Jim projected home movies. 179 00:13:11,724 --> 00:13:14,684 They listened to music, including Doors albums, 180 00:13:14,858 --> 00:13:17,643 and fell asleep around 2:30 a.m. 181 00:13:17,818 --> 00:13:22,779 Around 4 a.m., Pam said she woke to find Jim having difficulty breathing. 182 00:13:22,953 --> 00:13:24,607 In one version of her story, 183 00:13:24,781 --> 00:13:27,697 she claimed she'd recently contacted a Paris doctor 184 00:13:27,871 --> 00:13:30,047 who prescribed asthma medication for Jim. 185 00:13:30,221 --> 00:13:32,397 That was contradicted by Andy Morrison, 186 00:13:32,571 --> 00:13:36,749 who told me he had no recollection of Jim ever having asthma, 187 00:13:36,924 --> 00:13:41,711 and there's no record of the doctor, pharmacy or prescription. 188 00:13:41,885 --> 00:13:44,018 Pam stated she slapped Jim awake 189 00:13:44,192 --> 00:13:47,412 and he vomited a small amount of blood into a saucepan. 190 00:13:48,370 --> 00:13:52,374 Worried, she offered to call a doctor, but Jim declined. 191 00:13:52,548 --> 00:13:56,030 He stated he was feeling better and wanted to take a bath. 192 00:13:56,639 --> 00:13:57,945 Pam went back to sleep 193 00:13:58,119 --> 00:13:59,947 while Jim remained in the bathroom. 194 00:14:00,121 --> 00:14:02,819 She said she rose the next morning around 8 a.m. 195 00:14:02,993 --> 00:14:05,604 to discover him unconscious in the bathtub, 196 00:14:05,778 --> 00:14:09,695 which, according to various accounts, was tinged pink with blood. 197 00:14:10,696 --> 00:14:13,612 Around 8:30 a.m., Pam called Agnès Varda, 198 00:14:13,786 --> 00:14:16,659 an acquaintance she knew through Jim and Ronay. 199 00:14:16,833 --> 00:14:18,748 Five men from the fire brigade, 200 00:14:18,922 --> 00:14:21,229 including Lieutenant Alain Raisson, 201 00:14:21,403 --> 00:14:23,840 presumably pulled the body from the bath 202 00:14:24,014 --> 00:14:25,668 and laid it in the bedroom, 203 00:14:25,842 --> 00:14:28,453 where their attempts to revive were unsuccessful. 204 00:14:29,541 --> 00:14:32,022 So whose body was it? 205 00:14:32,196 --> 00:14:37,158 Robyn Wurtele told me no police, fire brigade or coffin were present. 206 00:14:37,332 --> 00:14:40,813 We turned the radio on and it said, "Rock star Jim Morrison's dead." 207 00:14:41,945 --> 00:14:44,382 I mean, that's when we heard it. 208 00:14:44,556 --> 00:14:49,866 We didn't even hear it from anybody that we should have heard it from, I think. 209 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,956 You know, it seems like there was hardly any publicity. They didn't have anything on TV. 210 00:14:53,130 --> 00:14:56,351 I mean, I thought-- I thought, "Damn, how did I miss this?" 211 00:14:56,525 --> 00:15:01,922 Whoever's in charge of handling deaths or public relations about a death, 212 00:15:02,096 --> 00:15:04,489 they didn't handle it very well. 213 00:15:04,663 --> 00:15:08,580 And part of that is the Doors and Elektra, I think. 214 00:15:08,754 --> 00:15:12,106 But having to find out over the media, 215 00:15:13,585 --> 00:15:16,066 where they could have called my parents up. 216 00:15:16,893 --> 00:15:18,634 I had watched the circuses 217 00:15:18,808 --> 00:15:22,638 surrounding the deaths of Joplin and Jimi Hendrix 218 00:15:22,812 --> 00:15:25,989 and decided that we could not let this happen. 219 00:15:26,163 --> 00:15:29,993 I figured we had 48 hours to get ahold of it. 220 00:15:30,167 --> 00:15:35,259 And there were rumors: "He's dead," "he's not dead." We just let it all simmer down. 221 00:15:35,433 --> 00:15:39,263 [Jeff] Do you recall your reaction when you learned he had allegedly died? 222 00:15:39,437 --> 00:15:41,613 Were you shocked? Or what was your reaction? 223 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:47,837 No. It is possible that he really did think he could get clean and dry 224 00:15:48,011 --> 00:15:50,318 and be a poet when he went to Paris. 225 00:15:50,492 --> 00:15:54,713 But I was shocked in that way that you always knew something was gonna happen. 226 00:15:56,802 --> 00:16:00,763 I can't say I was devastated because I wasn't surprised, really. 227 00:16:00,937 --> 00:16:04,288 There are certain people who have a lifestyle, and, you know, I-- 228 00:16:04,462 --> 00:16:08,771 Friends that I had in the '60s who had really the kind of lifestyle where you think, 229 00:16:08,945 --> 00:16:11,295 "Wow can they possibly still be alive?" 230 00:16:11,469 --> 00:16:13,297 And he was certainly one of them. 231 00:16:13,471 --> 00:16:15,778 You know, his lifestyle was deadly. 232 00:16:15,952 --> 00:16:22,393 I don't think that anybody who has abused himself as deeply as Jim did, 233 00:16:22,567 --> 00:16:26,093 um, could ever have rebounded from that. 234 00:16:26,267 --> 00:16:30,967 I mean, the alcohol and some of the drugs and stuff were extreme, for sure. 235 00:16:31,141 --> 00:16:33,535 I mean, anybody that knows Jim-- 236 00:16:33,709 --> 00:16:35,754 I mean, he took everything to the limit. 237 00:16:35,928 --> 00:16:37,930 I mean, he invented and-- 238 00:16:38,105 --> 00:16:39,976 He invented pushing the envelope. 239 00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:43,675 I mean, he wanted to see what would happen. 240 00:16:44,763 --> 00:16:47,766 [Jeff] The doctor concluded, beyond any doubt, 241 00:16:47,940 --> 00:16:51,509 the official cause of death was heart failure 242 00:16:51,683 --> 00:16:54,904 due to an excessive consumption of alcohol. 243 00:17:01,867 --> 00:17:05,480 Almost immediately following Jim's alleged death 244 00:17:05,654 --> 00:17:08,135 on July 3rd, 1971, 245 00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:11,007 an alternative story began to circulate, 246 00:17:11,181 --> 00:17:14,054 casting doubt on the original report. 247 00:17:14,619 --> 00:17:19,189 Many believe Jim died after snorting heroin at the Rock'n'Roll Circus, 248 00:17:19,363 --> 00:17:22,062 a club not far from his Paris flat. 249 00:17:22,236 --> 00:17:27,589 [man in French] 250 00:17:44,736 --> 00:17:47,565 [Jeff] The story goes that Jim scored smack for Pam, 251 00:17:47,739 --> 00:17:49,654 presumably from a street dealer, 252 00:17:49,828 --> 00:17:53,223 sampled the product in a toilet stall in the club's men's room, 253 00:17:53,397 --> 00:17:56,052 then passed out or died instantly. 254 00:17:56,705 --> 00:18:00,622 The dealers were then kind enough to carry his body out of the club's back entrance, 255 00:18:00,796 --> 00:18:06,323 into the street, into a car, and up the flights of stairs to his Paris residence. 256 00:18:06,497 --> 00:18:10,588 [in French] 257 00:18:22,122 --> 00:18:26,082 [Jeff] Robyn Wurtele described the Rock'n'Roll Circus heroin theory to me 258 00:18:26,256 --> 00:18:29,129 in one word: "ridiculous." 259 00:18:30,782 --> 00:18:34,569 According to the translation of Jim Morrison's French death certificate, 260 00:18:34,743 --> 00:18:37,528 dated July 6th, 1971, 261 00:18:37,702 --> 00:18:42,751 Pamela Courson was the only one present at the time of Jim's apparent death, 262 00:18:42,925 --> 00:18:46,798 but she described different versions of her story to different people. 263 00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:50,237 There were problems with the police report. 264 00:18:50,411 --> 00:18:53,501 Pamela Courson's stories are inconsistent. 265 00:18:54,154 --> 00:18:57,592 There's no corroboration of various facts 266 00:18:57,766 --> 00:19:01,683 that would be needed to prove deaths in a court of law. 267 00:19:01,857 --> 00:19:05,339 The way that Ray kind of described her, you know, 268 00:19:05,513 --> 00:19:07,689 at that point, just bursting into tears, she said, 269 00:19:07,863 --> 00:19:11,562 "Gosh, I wish I had just awakened once, you know, 270 00:19:11,736 --> 00:19:15,218 at the right time to go in there and it might have, you know, saved him or do something..." 271 00:19:15,392 --> 00:19:16,915 I don't quite buy that. 272 00:19:17,089 --> 00:19:18,917 There's something about that that just doesn't... 273 00:19:19,657 --> 00:19:21,355 seem right to me. 274 00:19:21,529 --> 00:19:24,749 Twenty-seven-olds don't-- Typically... 275 00:19:26,011 --> 00:19:29,058 don't suddenly die. 276 00:19:29,232 --> 00:19:32,540 I was puzzled by the mystery about it. 277 00:19:33,367 --> 00:19:36,935 You ask a physiologist or a physician about this, 278 00:19:37,109 --> 00:19:39,895 and they'll think, with Jim Morrison, it was a drug overdose. 279 00:19:40,069 --> 00:19:41,636 But we don't know 280 00:19:43,028 --> 00:19:45,205 because of the somewhat Byzantine way 281 00:19:45,379 --> 00:19:49,470 in which the documents of Jim's death were created, 282 00:19:50,471 --> 00:19:51,950 or not created. 283 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,039 [Jeff] You told me yourself, 284 00:19:54,214 --> 00:19:56,999 he spoke to the following people 285 00:19:57,173 --> 00:19:59,480 specifically about faking his death. 286 00:19:59,654 --> 00:20:05,137 Danny, Frank, Kathy and...? 287 00:20:05,877 --> 00:20:07,270 Me. 288 00:20:07,444 --> 00:20:08,967 [Jeff] Can you please elaborate? [laughs] 289 00:20:09,141 --> 00:20:12,275 He just basically said that, you know, um, 290 00:20:12,449 --> 00:20:17,019 "One of these days, I think I just might go to Africa." 291 00:20:17,193 --> 00:20:21,197 But during the talk, he said, "You know, maybe I should use a different name." 292 00:20:21,371 --> 00:20:24,113 And I said, "Well, do you have in mind?" He said, "Douglas James." 293 00:20:24,287 --> 00:20:27,116 I said, "There are an awful lot of Douglas Jameses out there. 294 00:20:27,595 --> 00:20:29,553 Be hard to track you down, wouldn't it?" 295 00:20:30,337 --> 00:20:34,645 [Jeff] From Jim telling high-school classmate Bill Thomas in 1961 296 00:20:34,819 --> 00:20:37,213 that someday he'd disappear, 297 00:20:37,387 --> 00:20:43,611 to Robyn Wurtele, his personal assistant in Paris, telling me in 2016, quote, 298 00:20:43,785 --> 00:20:47,267 "If he's out there, you may run into him at some point," 299 00:20:47,441 --> 00:20:51,183 a clear pattern emerged: escape. 300 00:20:52,446 --> 00:20:56,885 With the would-be Dr. Max apparently having been Varda's friend, 301 00:20:57,059 --> 00:21:02,499 perhaps her personal physician, did he also function as an actor 302 00:21:02,673 --> 00:21:06,198 in the signing of Jim's death certificate? 303 00:21:06,373 --> 00:21:11,856 This would align with what the son of fellow Paris player Alain Raisson told me 304 00:21:12,030 --> 00:21:15,251 his father's post-fire-brigade life entailed: 305 00:21:16,557 --> 00:21:19,081 stage acting in Brazil. 306 00:21:19,864 --> 00:21:22,476 The doctor has never been located. 307 00:21:22,650 --> 00:21:26,828 Even the pronunciation of his name has proven impossible to corroborate. 308 00:21:27,002 --> 00:21:29,439 There are those who say it's "Vaseel," 309 00:21:29,613 --> 00:21:31,963 while others claim "Vassilé," 310 00:21:32,137 --> 00:21:35,576 "Vassilay," "Vassay," and so on. 311 00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:40,668 The only ones that I was told that saw the-- 312 00:21:41,495 --> 00:21:45,455 Witnessed the death certificate were Bill Siddons and Pam. 313 00:21:47,370 --> 00:21:51,287 Bill Siddons is 100 percent trustworthy. 314 00:21:53,245 --> 00:21:55,596 What Bill says, I believe. 315 00:21:55,770 --> 00:22:00,209 Jim was already in a coffin in the living room of the-- Wherever he was staying. 316 00:22:03,038 --> 00:22:07,912 Unless Pam ran down to the Coffins"R"Us or whatever, where do you get a coffin? 317 00:22:08,086 --> 00:22:11,568 How do you get a body in it that quickly? 318 00:22:15,703 --> 00:22:17,182 Get loose. 319 00:22:17,357 --> 00:22:19,054 Come on out to Coffins"R"Us. 320 00:22:19,228 --> 00:22:23,145 We got coffins to fit every budget and lifestyle. 321 00:22:23,319 --> 00:22:27,192 Act now and break on through to get the fully sealed Siddons model, 322 00:22:27,367 --> 00:22:30,718 guaranteed not to leak for 50 years.[coughs] 323 00:22:30,892 --> 00:22:34,461 Every 27th customer gets a free James Phoenix action figure. 324 00:22:34,635 --> 00:22:35,549 [voice] Hi-yah. 325 00:22:35,723 --> 00:22:39,988 Only at Coffins"R"Us. Get loose. 326 00:22:40,162 --> 00:22:41,859 [glass shattering] 327 00:22:53,871 --> 00:22:56,047 [Jeff] "Paris is beautiful in the sun, 328 00:22:56,221 --> 00:22:59,007 an exciting town built for human beings. 329 00:22:59,573 --> 00:23:01,705 Speaking to Bill a while back, 330 00:23:01,879 --> 00:23:05,579 I told him of our desire to stay on here indefinitely. 331 00:23:05,753 --> 00:23:07,232 Will that be possible? 332 00:23:07,711 --> 00:23:09,713 Could you write and give me an idea 333 00:23:09,887 --> 00:23:13,456 of how long we can stay on living at our present rate? 334 00:23:13,630 --> 00:23:16,416 A sort of financial statement in general. 335 00:23:16,590 --> 00:23:19,593 Also a copy of the partnership agreement, 336 00:23:19,767 --> 00:23:21,638 if it was ever completed." 337 00:23:23,074 --> 00:23:26,382 But in 1971, did he have enough wealth 338 00:23:26,556 --> 00:23:28,950 to have lived--? Faked his death? 339 00:23:29,124 --> 00:23:32,432 It may have depended upon how much Pam was spending. 340 00:23:32,606 --> 00:23:37,524 Uh, I think he certainly had enough wealth at that point 341 00:23:37,698 --> 00:23:42,485 because the records were gonna continue to sell, whether the band was active or not. 342 00:23:43,225 --> 00:23:45,619 He would have had enough money the rest of his life. 343 00:23:47,969 --> 00:23:51,538 [Jeff] Pam Courson, Jim's longtime girlfriend, what's your take on her? 344 00:23:51,712 --> 00:23:54,889 Pam Courson, I don't know, I have different feelings. 345 00:23:55,063 --> 00:23:58,893 I think she probably helped him along in the beginning, 346 00:23:59,067 --> 00:24:03,854 but I think her heroin addiction became a problem. 347 00:24:04,681 --> 00:24:08,380 And he wa-- He had mentioned once 348 00:24:08,555 --> 00:24:11,949 that he didn't like the whole idea of copping 349 00:24:12,646 --> 00:24:16,693 and what that involved, and didn't wanna have anything to do with it. 350 00:24:16,867 --> 00:24:19,000 - [Jeff] Scoring drugs, right? - Yeah. 351 00:24:19,174 --> 00:24:22,525 And I mean, I guess she was shooting, wasn't she? 352 00:24:23,265 --> 00:24:25,659 [Jeff] I've researched Jim's vintage interviews, 353 00:24:25,833 --> 00:24:28,488 from college newspapers to Rolling Stone. 354 00:24:28,662 --> 00:24:32,622 And in a 1971 piece for the L.A. Free Press, 355 00:24:32,796 --> 00:24:36,104 he stated that he did not like scoring drugs. 356 00:24:44,242 --> 00:24:48,420 I had the theory that what if the count, you know, Jean de Breteuil, 357 00:24:48,595 --> 00:24:52,294 the guy who was Pam's dealer and her lover in Paris... 358 00:24:52,468 --> 00:24:54,383 Many people think he killed Jim, 359 00:24:54,905 --> 00:24:56,951 either accidentally or through murder 360 00:24:57,125 --> 00:24:59,954 or it was his heroin or whatever. 361 00:25:02,434 --> 00:25:08,179 You know, I said to you, "What if he helped Jim escape out of Paris to Africa?" 362 00:25:08,353 --> 00:25:10,878 And what--? I can't remember, what was your take on that? 363 00:25:11,052 --> 00:25:15,099 Well, I remember people saying so many nasty things about the guy, like he was evil. 364 00:25:15,622 --> 00:25:20,714 [Jeff] Frank is the first person to have anything positive to say about the count. 365 00:25:20,888 --> 00:25:23,238 But I wonder if I struck a nerve 366 00:25:23,412 --> 00:25:27,764 when I suggested the count may have helped Jim fly out of Paris to Morocco, 367 00:25:27,938 --> 00:25:32,421 a small country in North Africa, with a new passport in hand. 368 00:25:33,857 --> 00:25:36,904 [in French] 369 00:25:50,352 --> 00:25:54,748 [Jeff] Pam was said to have seen the count on and off for a number of years, 370 00:25:54,922 --> 00:25:56,576 he being not only her lover, 371 00:25:56,750 --> 00:25:59,448 but also her main heroin connection. 372 00:25:59,622 --> 00:26:04,409 Allegedly, his product also was the heroin that killed Janis Joplin. 373 00:26:04,888 --> 00:26:07,717 [Jeff] You never saw heroin? You never saw that in the mix? 374 00:26:07,891 --> 00:26:09,763 - No. - Backstage or wherever? 375 00:26:09,937 --> 00:26:11,634 No, I never really did. 376 00:26:11,808 --> 00:26:14,898 Um, we did a lot of other things on occasion, 377 00:26:15,072 --> 00:26:19,381 but no, I've never seen that. 378 00:26:21,426 --> 00:26:24,212 [Jeff] Immediately following Jim's reported death, 379 00:26:24,386 --> 00:26:29,043 the Count Jean de Breteuil decided to leave France in a hurry. 380 00:26:29,217 --> 00:26:31,698 His destination? Morocco. 381 00:26:32,263 --> 00:26:33,961 If Jim did fake his death, 382 00:26:34,135 --> 00:26:37,704 Africa appeared a likely candidate for his new home, 383 00:26:37,878 --> 00:26:40,968 or at least his first destination. 384 00:26:45,233 --> 00:26:49,106 [Jeff] I'm about 90 to 95% still in belief that he pulled the Rimbaud, 385 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,805 because he was obsessed with Rimbaud. 386 00:26:51,979 --> 00:26:53,328 Rimbaud did vanish. 387 00:26:53,502 --> 00:26:55,069 He disappeared into North Africa. 388 00:26:55,243 --> 00:26:58,028 And, oh, gee, where did Jim talk about going? 389 00:26:58,202 --> 00:27:00,161 He talked about going to Morocco. 390 00:27:00,335 --> 00:27:02,903 He talked about going to the west coast of Africa. 391 00:27:03,077 --> 00:27:05,645 He wanted to see where the slaves came from. 392 00:27:06,341 --> 00:27:12,826 Uh, so that would be Senegal, Ghana, the Ivory Coast. 393 00:27:13,914 --> 00:27:15,916 And where's that missing passport? 394 00:27:19,659 --> 00:27:22,226 He lost his first passport. 395 00:27:23,619 --> 00:27:27,318 [Jeff] The first one is the one he got in August of '68 for the European tour... 396 00:27:27,492 --> 00:27:28,929 - Right - ...a few weeks after-- 397 00:27:29,103 --> 00:27:30,670 That's the one that went back to his parents. 398 00:27:30,844 --> 00:27:31,671 Yes. 399 00:27:31,845 --> 00:27:33,673 You know, I just wonder 400 00:27:33,847 --> 00:27:37,154 because his family got his initial passport, 401 00:27:37,328 --> 00:27:40,897 the one that was supposed to be lost in an airport. 402 00:27:43,117 --> 00:27:47,425 And where was the new one? It's never surfaced. 403 00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:52,648 [Jeff] I think this, along with the fact that, you know, when he was in Paris, 404 00:27:52,822 --> 00:27:55,738 I told you, he was having a pair of boots widened. 405 00:27:55,912 --> 00:27:59,568 I mean, he was making plans to live. 406 00:28:02,484 --> 00:28:03,703 You know, there's the letter 407 00:28:03,877 --> 00:28:05,487 right before Jim's alleged death. 408 00:28:05,661 --> 00:28:08,272 [Stevenson] Yeah, "Come to Paris and see me." Yeah. 409 00:28:08,446 --> 00:28:10,318 [Jeff] He wrote the postcard to Max. 410 00:28:11,101 --> 00:28:13,669 He wrote a letter to Bob Greene requesting money. 411 00:28:13,843 --> 00:28:16,063 [Stevenson] Yeah. 412 00:28:16,237 --> 00:28:19,806 [Jeff] He wanted a credit card made out in Pam's name and his name separately. 413 00:28:19,980 --> 00:28:24,636 And in the Max Fink transcript, it says that Jim was going to Paris to leave Pam. 414 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,955 [Jeff] After Jim's apparent death, 415 00:28:39,129 --> 00:28:42,219 a distraught Pam returned to the United States, 416 00:28:42,393 --> 00:28:46,397 where she stayed close to Diane Gardner and Ellen Sander. 417 00:28:53,796 --> 00:28:55,842 I'm in San Francisco. I've got Pam with me. 418 00:28:56,016 --> 00:28:59,410 She cannot face the press, so we need a place to hide out. 419 00:28:59,584 --> 00:29:02,674 I was living in Bolinas, California, at the time. 420 00:29:02,849 --> 00:29:06,200 Very quiet, small-village life. "Can we come and stay with you?" 421 00:29:06,374 --> 00:29:09,116 And I said, "Sure, for as long as you'd like." 422 00:29:10,030 --> 00:29:14,948 I was at that point absolutely certain that they had Jim in the trunk. 423 00:29:16,253 --> 00:29:17,080 Alive. 424 00:29:20,170 --> 00:29:22,433 [Jeff] Can you describe the letter you're reading? Or who it's from? 425 00:29:22,607 --> 00:29:24,784 Yeah. Yeah. This is Diane Gardner, 426 00:29:24,958 --> 00:29:28,004 who, for a while, worked at Elektra, 427 00:29:28,178 --> 00:29:33,314 Jim's publicist, basically, in L.A., and Pamela, after... 428 00:29:34,315 --> 00:29:36,273 Just a few weeks after Jim's death, 429 00:29:36,447 --> 00:29:40,103 stayed with Diane in Sausalito, 430 00:29:40,277 --> 00:29:43,585 and together, they wrote me this letter. 431 00:29:43,759 --> 00:29:47,937 - And what is the date on it? - July 26, '71. 432 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,985 "So here's the story of how Jim did his last joke, 433 00:29:52,594 --> 00:29:53,987 which is on us. 434 00:29:55,031 --> 00:29:58,078 Jim was having a real good time in Paris 435 00:29:58,252 --> 00:30:00,820 and going all over the world with Pam. 436 00:30:02,169 --> 00:30:07,739 One evening, he had a nosebleed and said he'd probably feel better if he had a bath. 437 00:30:08,697 --> 00:30:12,135 'He might have needed one,'" says Pamela. 438 00:30:13,571 --> 00:30:19,621 "An hour later, Pam wondered what Jim was doing with himself for an hour in the bath. 439 00:30:20,274 --> 00:30:21,841 And there he was. 440 00:30:22,015 --> 00:30:24,800 Jim was just reclining like a little sweetheart emperor 441 00:30:24,974 --> 00:30:28,238 in the old Parisian tub with his head back 442 00:30:28,412 --> 00:30:32,373 and a smile, a fucking smile, on his face. 443 00:30:32,547 --> 00:30:36,464 Pamela tried to wake him up, but no, nothing doing. 444 00:30:36,638 --> 00:30:38,901 'He must think it's very funny 445 00:30:39,075 --> 00:30:42,557 to play dead like this in the bath.' 446 00:30:42,731 --> 00:30:48,519 It was another hour almost before Pam finally realized that Jim wasn't playing 447 00:30:48,693 --> 00:30:51,827 because he didn't even turn blue or anything. 448 00:30:52,610 --> 00:30:54,830 He just laid back with a grin on his face. 449 00:30:55,004 --> 00:30:57,877 So Pam tried to get him out of the tub, 450 00:30:58,051 --> 00:31:02,577 and the police came, and it's a good thing she didn't think of letting the water out, 451 00:31:02,751 --> 00:31:04,448 because they wanted to check it. 452 00:31:05,101 --> 00:31:07,799 There he was, just reclining like the Pope, 453 00:31:08,409 --> 00:31:10,454 and the only thing different about him 454 00:31:10,628 --> 00:31:15,416 is that he had something like a little red rash right over his heart. 455 00:31:17,461 --> 00:31:19,072 So that was Jim's joke. 456 00:31:19,246 --> 00:31:21,813 And there's a few creeps walking around still pissed off 457 00:31:21,988 --> 00:31:24,816 because he did it au naturel. 458 00:31:25,905 --> 00:31:29,343 By the time the Paris cops had checked out Jim's joke 459 00:31:30,083 --> 00:31:33,738 and declared him dead of natural resources, 460 00:31:33,913 --> 00:31:37,351 the Paris morticians had split for the weekend, 461 00:31:37,525 --> 00:31:42,269 and they weren't gonna come out of the woodwork to pick up anybody's discarded body. 462 00:31:42,443 --> 00:31:45,141 And this turned out to be a stroke of luck 463 00:31:45,315 --> 00:31:48,057 because whoever is in charge of bodies in Paris 464 00:31:48,231 --> 00:31:51,495 just laid him out right there in the apartment. 465 00:31:51,669 --> 00:31:55,412 They didn't bother Pam and Jim except to change the ice. 466 00:31:56,370 --> 00:32:01,027 Pamela says that when somebody you love dies, whatever you do, 467 00:32:01,201 --> 00:32:05,683 don't let them cart the body off to some crummy mortuary. 468 00:32:05,857 --> 00:32:09,992 Keep the body right in your home until it's time to get buried, 469 00:32:10,166 --> 00:32:14,518 because the spirit still hangs around as long as the body is there. 470 00:32:14,692 --> 00:32:16,651 Because of the mortician's holiday, 471 00:32:16,825 --> 00:32:19,393 Pam and Jim had one last weekend together, 472 00:32:20,133 --> 00:32:23,397 and he was right there with the whole scene, 473 00:32:23,571 --> 00:32:25,312 and they listened to some music 474 00:32:25,486 --> 00:32:27,488 and Pam even smoked a little. 475 00:32:28,054 --> 00:32:30,491 As soon as they took the body away, 476 00:32:30,665 --> 00:32:32,406 his spirit went away. 477 00:32:32,580 --> 00:32:35,365 We wish we had a picture of him there in his last moments, 478 00:32:35,539 --> 00:32:39,108 except that Pam was too busy being with him. 479 00:32:39,282 --> 00:32:42,329 And then at the funeral, it was just too much of a hassle, 480 00:32:42,503 --> 00:32:45,027 what with other people there and all that." 481 00:32:46,463 --> 00:32:50,641 So does this sound, you know, so mundane that it's true? 482 00:32:50,815 --> 00:32:52,600 [Jeff] Holy shit. I... 483 00:32:53,209 --> 00:32:56,299 I've just been sitting here frozen the entire time you were reading it. 484 00:32:58,127 --> 00:33:01,783 Diane Gardner knew. She knew what the heck happened. 485 00:33:01,957 --> 00:33:04,046 And she wouldn't tell me. 486 00:33:04,220 --> 00:33:07,006 So I tried to squeeze it out of her, 487 00:33:07,180 --> 00:33:08,833 and she never would tell me. 488 00:33:09,008 --> 00:33:11,271 You know, there's obviously a secret around his death. 489 00:33:12,054 --> 00:33:14,883 And she said, "There is a secret, 490 00:33:15,057 --> 00:33:17,059 and you're never gonna get it out of me." 491 00:33:17,581 --> 00:33:22,499 [Jeff] In the transcript he dictated to his wife, Maggie, in 1986, 492 00:33:22,673 --> 00:33:27,417 Jim's attorney, Max Fink, suspected Pam may have killed Jim. 493 00:33:27,591 --> 00:33:31,813 Jim's lover Linda Ashcroft maintained the same suspicion 494 00:33:31,987 --> 00:33:34,859 in her 1997 book, Wild Child, 495 00:33:35,034 --> 00:33:39,560 in which she claimed Pam admitted to her that Jim died from her heroin 496 00:33:39,734 --> 00:33:41,649 after he assumed it was cocaine. 497 00:33:41,823 --> 00:33:45,783 Diane told Mirandi Babitz, 498 00:33:45,957 --> 00:33:50,092 who I interviewed for this film almost three years ago already. 499 00:33:50,571 --> 00:33:55,097 She-- Mirandi is on the record saying that Diane told her 500 00:33:55,271 --> 00:33:57,360 there is a, quote, "secret about Jim's death, 501 00:33:57,534 --> 00:33:59,623 and you're never gonna get it out of me." 502 00:34:00,668 --> 00:34:02,626 [laughs] You know, what's that, right? 503 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,107 Okay. We all know the heroin scenario. 504 00:34:05,281 --> 00:34:07,631 Was that a cover story? So, what's the secret? 505 00:34:08,284 --> 00:34:11,461 I know that secret, and you're not gonna get it out of me either. 506 00:34:15,074 --> 00:34:17,728 [Jeff] Because the parties involved did not allow 507 00:34:17,902 --> 00:34:20,470 for an American or French autopsy, 508 00:34:20,644 --> 00:34:23,038 the endless questions will remain. 509 00:34:24,953 --> 00:34:28,304 And in your opinion, do you--? 510 00:34:28,478 --> 00:34:31,742 What do you feel killed Jim? 511 00:34:32,917 --> 00:34:34,397 His lifestyle. 512 00:34:34,571 --> 00:34:38,053 Uh, obviously, he drank too much. 513 00:34:38,227 --> 00:34:39,837 I think, by that time, he was overweight, 514 00:34:40,011 --> 00:34:42,797 and, you know, if you're not in good health 515 00:34:42,971 --> 00:34:45,669 and you drink too much and dabble in some drugs, 516 00:34:45,843 --> 00:34:47,671 it's not that hard to do. 517 00:34:47,845 --> 00:34:50,457 [Babitz] By the time I had last seen him, he was all bloated. 518 00:34:50,631 --> 00:34:56,419 And, you know, he had a thin little attractive layer of bloat, you know, 519 00:34:56,593 --> 00:34:58,900 back when I had first known him, 520 00:34:59,074 --> 00:35:02,860 but, you know, here we are just a few years later, you know, and he's fully-- 521 00:35:03,034 --> 00:35:04,906 You know, so his liver is not functioning. 522 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,084 [in French] 523 00:35:26,014 --> 00:35:29,365 [Jeff] These are some of the last photos taken of Jim, 524 00:35:29,539 --> 00:35:32,412 in Paris in May 1971. 525 00:35:33,021 --> 00:35:36,155 Does he appear to be significantly overweight? 526 00:35:36,329 --> 00:35:39,854 And to such a degree that his health was at risk? 527 00:35:40,376 --> 00:35:42,291 We may never know. 528 00:35:43,118 --> 00:35:49,211 These intimate photos were taken by one of Jim's close French friends, Hervé Muller. 529 00:35:53,433 --> 00:35:55,174 [Frank X] Like soul brothers. 530 00:36:00,309 --> 00:36:03,747 [Jeff] From biographers to police reports, 531 00:36:03,921 --> 00:36:08,970 even Jim's physical height has remained an ongoing topic of debate. 532 00:36:11,842 --> 00:36:15,019 While conducting my interviews for this docuseries, 533 00:36:15,194 --> 00:36:19,285 I asked everyone how tall they thought Jim was. 534 00:36:19,981 --> 00:36:23,071 Their answers were fascinating. 535 00:36:24,377 --> 00:36:27,554 I'd say 5'8", 5'9", something like that. 536 00:36:27,728 --> 00:36:32,298 Somewhere between 5'10" and 5'11", maybe. 537 00:36:32,472 --> 00:36:37,216 [Jeff] How tall would you say Jim Morrison was in the time you knew him at UCLA? 538 00:36:38,086 --> 00:36:39,479 Hmm... 539 00:36:41,307 --> 00:36:45,572 I'd say he was about, mm, 5'8". 540 00:36:46,442 --> 00:36:50,751 [in French] 541 00:37:01,849 --> 00:37:02,850 5'10". 542 00:37:03,024 --> 00:37:05,156 Confident. 5'9". 543 00:37:05,983 --> 00:37:07,333 He was exactly my height. 544 00:37:07,507 --> 00:37:12,338 We looked eyeball to eyeball in 1963. 545 00:37:13,817 --> 00:37:16,603 So I was 6 feet then. He had to have been 6 feet 546 00:37:16,777 --> 00:37:20,955 or not more than a quarter of an inch higher or lower. 547 00:37:21,129 --> 00:37:23,131 5'9", 5'10", max. 548 00:37:24,001 --> 00:37:28,179 I'm 5'7", so he was certainly taller than I am, at least by two inches. 549 00:37:28,354 --> 00:37:30,747 So I'd say he was 5'9", 5'10". 550 00:37:30,921 --> 00:37:33,881 He probably wasn't 6 feet tall, but he was plenty tall. 551 00:37:34,577 --> 00:37:35,665 He was about... 552 00:37:36,275 --> 00:37:38,755 He was about my height, and I was 5'10". 553 00:37:38,929 --> 00:37:40,322 I'd say 5'11". 554 00:37:40,931 --> 00:37:43,369 Maybe 5'9" at the most. Or... 555 00:37:43,543 --> 00:37:45,196 You know, and the other thing was, 556 00:37:45,371 --> 00:37:48,069 he rarely really stood up straight. 557 00:37:48,243 --> 00:37:49,853 You know? He was more-- 558 00:37:50,027 --> 00:37:55,685 I always think of him more slumped a bit, you know? 559 00:37:55,859 --> 00:37:59,210 He slouched a lot. He was a sloucher. He was-- 560 00:37:59,385 --> 00:38:03,214 He had desert boots on, and he was slouching around, you know? 561 00:38:03,389 --> 00:38:07,088 I mean, so he looked shorter. And I said he was my height, 562 00:38:07,262 --> 00:38:10,570 which would have been about 5'8" or 5'9" in high school. 563 00:38:10,744 --> 00:38:13,137 Well, I actually know the answer to this question 564 00:38:13,312 --> 00:38:17,707 because of the thing when we stood in front of the mirror, and we were-- 565 00:38:17,881 --> 00:38:20,580 He was going, "Are you actually taller than me?" 566 00:38:20,754 --> 00:38:24,192 And we had to measure. He was that neurotic. 567 00:38:24,366 --> 00:38:26,020 He was actually taller than me. 568 00:38:26,194 --> 00:38:28,892 And at that time, I was about 5'9.5". 569 00:38:29,066 --> 00:38:35,159 So I'd say he's probably 5'10" to 5'11". 570 00:38:35,334 --> 00:38:36,465 He was not 6 feet. 571 00:38:36,639 --> 00:38:40,643 [in French] 572 00:38:47,041 --> 00:38:51,915 My dad was 5'8", Jim was 5'9", and I reached 5'10.5". 573 00:38:52,655 --> 00:38:56,180 And that's how tall-- He liked to wear the boots, 574 00:38:56,355 --> 00:38:59,662 and he always said he would like to be six-foot tall. 575 00:38:59,836 --> 00:39:02,056 He'd like to have been taller. 576 00:39:04,101 --> 00:39:06,974 [Jeff] According to the enigmatic Bob Seymore 577 00:39:07,148 --> 00:39:09,193 in his one and only book, 578 00:39:09,368 --> 00:39:12,501 Jim's corpse was listed among French documents 579 00:39:12,675 --> 00:39:17,027 in the metric equivalent of 6'1", 580 00:39:17,201 --> 00:39:19,856 as opposed to Jim's reported actual height of... 581 00:39:20,030 --> 00:39:22,816 - [man] 5'9". - [Jeff] ...to 5'11". 582 00:39:25,253 --> 00:39:30,780 Seymore's information doesn't track with the official Morrison narrative 583 00:39:30,954 --> 00:39:36,003 and so supports the notion that Jim or someone close to him 584 00:39:36,177 --> 00:39:40,181 may have acquired a medical cadaver or John Doe body. 585 00:39:41,965 --> 00:39:46,100 An internist told me corpses do not grow in height. 586 00:39:46,274 --> 00:39:49,364 If anything, the opposite holds true. 587 00:39:51,061 --> 00:39:53,150 [Jeff] Um, so let me ask you this. 588 00:39:53,324 --> 00:39:56,458 [Jeff] This is a fun question, as you were just standing up next to me. 589 00:39:57,154 --> 00:40:02,246 I think I was going to ask you at one point when I thought you were Jim, how tall are you? 590 00:40:02,421 --> 00:40:03,857 5'7.5". 591 00:40:04,031 --> 00:40:06,990 Okay. So, now-- Now, were you always 5'7.5"? 592 00:40:07,164 --> 00:40:08,296 - Yeah. - Okay. 593 00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:09,906 Jim apparently was 5'11". 594 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:11,299 - So there you go. - Oh, okay. 595 00:40:11,473 --> 00:40:13,170 There's proof right there, right? 596 00:40:13,344 --> 00:40:15,434 'Cause I know the fans will probably wanna know. 597 00:40:15,608 --> 00:40:19,220 I asked all of Jim's lovers and his friends and Andy Morrison... 598 00:40:19,394 --> 00:40:20,656 I gotta ask you a question. 599 00:40:20,830 --> 00:40:22,179 ...Jac Holzman, "How tall was Jim?" 600 00:40:22,353 --> 00:40:23,659 And I got all kinds of different answers. 601 00:40:23,833 --> 00:40:25,313 - Oh, really? - They would say he's 5'7", 602 00:40:25,487 --> 00:40:26,619 they'd say he's 6'1", 603 00:40:26,793 --> 00:40:28,098 they'd say he's 5'11"... 604 00:40:28,272 --> 00:40:29,926 So how'd you find out the real truth? 605 00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:33,364 The consensus seems to be about 5'11". 606 00:40:33,539 --> 00:40:34,278 [Frank X] 607 00:40:34,453 --> 00:40:36,063 5'10", 5'11". 608 00:40:36,672 --> 00:40:41,677 "Okay," you say to yourself, "Jim was about 5'10" or 5'11", 609 00:40:41,851 --> 00:40:44,245 and Frank is 5'7.5"." 610 00:40:44,724 --> 00:40:47,291 But the human body shrinks as it ages. 611 00:40:47,466 --> 00:40:50,686 You can lose two to three inches of height as you get older. 612 00:40:50,860 --> 00:40:55,125 I don't know if you want this on the camera, but I had a good friend at one time... 613 00:40:55,299 --> 00:40:57,171 - [Jeff] Sure. - ...told me that-- 614 00:40:58,085 --> 00:41:02,698 He was from Boston, but he lived up this way for a while, 615 00:41:02,872 --> 00:41:04,526 and I got to know him really well. 616 00:41:04,700 --> 00:41:06,093 Frank Higgins from Boston. 617 00:41:06,267 --> 00:41:08,835 He was a little toughie Irishman. 618 00:41:09,357 --> 00:41:11,185 He told me that they were-- 619 00:41:11,359 --> 00:41:15,798 That they had a homosexual relationship in New York 620 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:17,713 when he was in New York. 621 00:41:17,887 --> 00:41:19,193 [Jeff] I'm sorry, who did? 622 00:41:19,759 --> 00:41:21,412 [Frank] #### and Jim. 623 00:41:21,587 --> 00:41:25,721 [Jeff] Wow. I've never heard this story before. 624 00:41:25,895 --> 00:41:28,681 It's not printed anywhere, to my knowledge, 625 00:41:28,855 --> 00:41:31,597 and it's not in any documentary. 626 00:41:31,771 --> 00:41:36,689 There hasn't even been a rumor of Jim and this particular person having been together. 627 00:41:36,863 --> 00:41:39,953 So how did Frank know this? 628 00:41:40,127 --> 00:41:42,651 See, I learned something new. People think I'm an expert on Jim Morrison. 629 00:41:42,825 --> 00:41:44,566 Yeah. Well, he told me this, and he's-- 630 00:41:44,740 --> 00:41:47,351 I don't know how he knew, but he wasn't a bullshitter. 631 00:41:47,526 --> 00:41:49,745 [Jeff] Yeah. And what's your friend's name? 632 00:41:49,919 --> 00:41:51,007 Frank Higgins. 633 00:41:52,095 --> 00:41:54,533 [Jeff] I did a search for Frank Higgins of Boston 634 00:41:54,707 --> 00:41:57,492 and found only one person by that name. 635 00:41:57,666 --> 00:41:59,668 But when I spoke with him, 636 00:41:59,842 --> 00:42:02,845 he said he did not live in Boston during that time period. 637 00:42:03,542 --> 00:42:06,022 Maybe he was loaded and had one-- 638 00:42:06,196 --> 00:42:08,416 You know, didn't know what was going on. 639 00:42:08,590 --> 00:42:11,419 [Jeff] I've heard that Jim was either bisexual or experimented with that, 640 00:42:11,593 --> 00:42:13,290 as, you know, many young people do. 641 00:42:13,464 --> 00:42:14,857 What's your take on that? 642 00:42:15,031 --> 00:42:17,120 Do you think Jim was straight or bi or...? 643 00:42:17,817 --> 00:42:19,862 I can't imagine him being bi. 644 00:42:21,211 --> 00:42:23,997 You think he was straight and maybe just had some experiences? 645 00:42:24,171 --> 00:42:26,869 Well, having been under the influence 646 00:42:27,043 --> 00:42:31,221 and being interested in experimentation, 647 00:42:32,919 --> 00:42:37,663 I don't think he was in his "right" mind when-- 648 00:42:37,837 --> 00:42:39,752 If it might have happened. 649 00:42:41,405 --> 00:42:46,410 [Jeff] Jim certainly was known to have had intimate sexual relationships with other men. 650 00:42:50,937 --> 00:42:53,504 Two things come to mind. 651 00:42:54,375 --> 00:42:57,900 One is the line from... 652 00:42:58,074 --> 00:43:00,381 Oh, gosh, I think it's on "Soft Parade", yeah. 653 00:43:00,555 --> 00:43:01,774 [Jeff] "Till his wife gets home"? 654 00:43:01,948 --> 00:43:03,384 [Ross] "Until his wife gets home." 655 00:43:05,995 --> 00:43:08,868 And it was done so tongue in cheek 656 00:43:09,042 --> 00:43:11,392 that I just considered it kind of funny. 657 00:43:11,566 --> 00:43:15,614 Until the last time that Jim and I were together, 658 00:43:16,789 --> 00:43:21,010 he actually had me take him to where he was staying in-- 659 00:43:21,184 --> 00:43:23,099 I wrote it down as Bungalow B. 660 00:43:23,273 --> 00:43:26,015 It may not be Bungalow B, but that's how I wrote it. 661 00:43:26,189 --> 00:43:27,582 - at the Chateau Marmont. 662 00:43:28,627 --> 00:43:32,979 And as we were getting out of my car 663 00:43:33,153 --> 00:43:36,199 and walking in that direction, 664 00:43:36,373 --> 00:43:41,030 um, a very pretty, very gay young man approached him, 665 00:43:41,204 --> 00:43:44,033 kind of sidled up to him, and was, you know, 666 00:43:44,207 --> 00:43:46,949 "Hi, Jim, how you doing? Blah, blah, blah." 667 00:43:47,123 --> 00:43:52,955 And it struck me at the time that he was certainly not put off by it. 668 00:43:53,129 --> 00:43:56,002 It didn't seem-- He didn't miss a beat. 669 00:43:56,176 --> 00:43:57,699 It wasn't like, you know, you know, 670 00:43:57,873 --> 00:43:59,266 "Oh, you queer, get away from me." 671 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,443 He was congenial, and he was just-- 672 00:44:02,617 --> 00:44:05,315 You know, he was fine with it. 673 00:44:05,489 --> 00:44:08,710 [Jeff] Because, you know, Ji-- It was the '60s, the late '60s, and Jim said, "I want"-- Quote, 674 00:44:08,884 --> 00:44:10,538 "I want the freedom to try everything once." 675 00:44:10,712 --> 00:44:13,323 So you've gotta figure maybe-- Why wouldn't you? 676 00:44:13,497 --> 00:44:16,152 Well, and in all the reading he did about all the writers 677 00:44:16,326 --> 00:44:21,505 from the 1700s, 18, there was a lot of that rampant. 678 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,509 And if he might have-- He might have been fucked up or on drugs, 679 00:44:25,684 --> 00:44:27,250 and if he tried something with somebody, 680 00:44:27,424 --> 00:44:30,210 I don't think it was a lasting thing. 681 00:44:31,298 --> 00:44:34,214 And I'm sure it wouldn't bother him 682 00:44:34,388 --> 00:44:36,085 if it was made public. 683 00:44:36,782 --> 00:44:39,088 To me, he was sort of homophobic. 684 00:44:40,394 --> 00:44:41,264 - You know? - [Jeff] Really? 685 00:44:41,438 --> 00:44:42,352 Yeah. 686 00:44:44,398 --> 00:44:48,358 Loved the girls. Not so much the guys. 687 00:44:48,532 --> 00:44:52,058 I don't remember ever really talking to him about it, 688 00:44:52,232 --> 00:44:57,019 but just being in certain situations with him, 689 00:44:57,193 --> 00:45:03,896 um, I saw a comfort level that didn't surprise me. 690 00:45:04,505 --> 00:45:06,681 It was very evident to me 691 00:45:06,855 --> 00:45:11,642 that there was a relationship there with McClure and him. 692 00:45:11,817 --> 00:45:14,515 No, I mean, I just don't believe it. He wasn't gay. 693 00:45:14,689 --> 00:45:17,126 The guy was not gay, and I don't think he was bi. I don't think-- 694 00:45:17,300 --> 00:45:19,650 I think that bi people are so rare, 695 00:45:19,825 --> 00:45:22,175 are so thin on the ground, 696 00:45:22,349 --> 00:45:27,310 the chances of people being bi, I think, is really quite unusual. 697 00:45:27,484 --> 00:45:29,051 And I really don't think he was that. 698 00:45:29,225 --> 00:45:30,749 He was very interested in women. 699 00:45:30,923 --> 00:45:33,752 He was completely interested in females. 700 00:45:34,317 --> 00:45:38,539 He was really obsessed with women. 701 00:45:38,713 --> 00:45:42,195 [Huddleston] I would find it hard to believe that he never did, 702 00:45:42,369 --> 00:45:46,199 just out of the willingness to try everything. 703 00:45:46,765 --> 00:45:53,119 And when I asked him about it, he was very, um, snippy 704 00:45:53,293 --> 00:45:55,512 and said, "No, not me." 705 00:45:55,686 --> 00:45:58,515 But I didn't entirely believe him, 706 00:45:58,689 --> 00:46:01,823 and I was surprised by his vehemence 707 00:46:01,997 --> 00:46:03,869 because at that point in time, 708 00:46:04,043 --> 00:46:06,828 it was relatively not a big deal. 709 00:46:09,004 --> 00:46:13,226 So it seemed strange that he was so insistent that, no, never. 710 00:46:13,879 --> 00:46:16,185 And then that-- Actually, that same evening, he said, 711 00:46:16,359 --> 00:46:19,754 "I want to be with every woman in this room, even her." 712 00:46:19,928 --> 00:46:22,931 And he pointed to this woman that didn't seem like a likely candidate. 713 00:46:23,105 --> 00:46:25,891 So... yeah. 714 00:46:26,065 --> 00:46:28,328 There was something going on there, yeah. 715 00:46:28,502 --> 00:46:31,940 [Babitz] There was a big fight between Pam and Jim. 716 00:46:32,549 --> 00:46:38,120 And, uh, overnight, and we were staying in a bedroom across the hall from them. 717 00:46:38,294 --> 00:46:43,343 And the next day, when Jim went out to the studio, 718 00:46:43,517 --> 00:46:48,043 Pam, you know, just gathered up all of his stage clothing 719 00:46:48,217 --> 00:46:51,699 and started cutting it up with scissors. 720 00:46:51,873 --> 00:46:54,310 She was, like, just enraged, 721 00:46:54,484 --> 00:46:56,791 and she wouldn't be straight with me 722 00:46:56,965 --> 00:46:59,750 about what she was so angry about. 723 00:47:00,316 --> 00:47:02,188 But one of the things that she did was, 724 00:47:02,362 --> 00:47:05,582 we had to go across the street to the cleaners 725 00:47:05,756 --> 00:47:07,323 to get the rest of his stage clothes, 726 00:47:07,497 --> 00:47:10,283 'cause she wanted to destroy every scrap of it. 727 00:47:10,892 --> 00:47:14,591 So we got it out of the-- Out of the cleaners, 728 00:47:14,765 --> 00:47:16,898 and it was a vest that he liked to wear onstage, 729 00:47:17,072 --> 00:47:19,118 and she wrote "fag" across the back of it 730 00:47:19,292 --> 00:47:20,641 and underlined it 731 00:47:20,815 --> 00:47:24,079 and then... chopped it up with her scissors. 732 00:47:25,037 --> 00:47:27,953 And, you know, I tried to talk to her about it, and, you know-- 733 00:47:28,127 --> 00:47:30,390 'Cause I said, "Well, he's with you, isn't he?" 734 00:47:30,564 --> 00:47:32,740 You know, "What are you talking about?" 735 00:47:32,914 --> 00:47:38,180 And she-- You know, she just would cuss and scream at him 736 00:47:38,354 --> 00:47:40,400 and, you know, yell his name and, you know... 737 00:47:40,574 --> 00:47:45,274 [chuckles] So she wasn't clear, but it did... 738 00:47:46,623 --> 00:47:50,540 You know, at the time, I thought-- I didn't-- You know, I had no idea. 739 00:47:50,714 --> 00:47:52,934 I didn't know anybody who was bisexual, 740 00:47:53,108 --> 00:47:57,460 so it didn't come into my radar as a possibility. 741 00:47:59,419 --> 00:48:03,858 Being gay was kind of okay in the crowd we were in, you know, 742 00:48:04,032 --> 00:48:05,599 but it just-- 743 00:48:05,773 --> 00:48:07,993 So it was like, I didn't know what to make of it. 744 00:48:08,167 --> 00:48:13,520 I really didn't understand, but I think, looking from this perspective in life, 745 00:48:13,694 --> 00:48:17,524 I would say I think it's a possibility, 746 00:48:17,698 --> 00:48:19,918 you know, that he would be, 747 00:48:20,092 --> 00:48:22,659 but he was predominantly with women. 748 00:48:24,966 --> 00:48:28,535 [Jeff] In June 1970, Jim took a trip to France 749 00:48:28,709 --> 00:48:31,059 with the Doors publicist, Leon Barnard, 750 00:48:31,233 --> 00:48:35,977 where Jim just so happened to run into his dear friend Alain Ronay. 751 00:48:36,151 --> 00:48:40,895 Given that it was Jim's first time in Paris, Alain showed him the ropes. 752 00:48:41,069 --> 00:48:42,941 Was this Jim's reconnaissance mission 753 00:48:43,115 --> 00:48:47,206 to pre-plan and map out his ultimate escape? 754 00:48:47,728 --> 00:48:52,907 What if, in an excerpt from Ronay's published 1991 article, 755 00:48:53,081 --> 00:48:55,692 "Jim and I: Friends Until Death," 756 00:48:55,866 --> 00:49:03,962 Ronay revealed he and Jim had physically practiced Jim's alleged July 3rd, 1971, demise? 757 00:49:04,919 --> 00:49:07,182 Did Alain help Jim achieve his goal 758 00:49:07,356 --> 00:49:09,141 of the Rimbaud vanishing act? 759 00:49:11,491 --> 00:49:14,015 Here, then, are Ronay's own words: 760 00:49:14,842 --> 00:49:18,237 "I felt as if I had entered a state of déjà vu 761 00:49:18,411 --> 00:49:22,328 made possible by years of rehearsing the same script." 762 00:49:23,372 --> 00:49:27,898 The French-born and -fluent Ronay was one of Jim's most trusted confidants, 763 00:49:28,073 --> 00:49:32,381 dating back to 1964, when they were UCLA roommates. 764 00:49:33,426 --> 00:49:38,692 No One Here Gets Out Alive described Alain as one of Jim's "mystery friends." 765 00:49:39,258 --> 00:49:42,739 Ronay's own words from his 1991 article 766 00:49:42,913 --> 00:49:45,568 not only riffed on marriage vows, 767 00:49:45,742 --> 00:49:51,618 but also could be interpreted to suggest he and Jim rehearsed the staging of Jim's death 768 00:49:51,792 --> 00:49:54,229 during that 1970 Paris trip. 769 00:49:55,143 --> 00:49:57,624 Jim trusted Alain implicitly. 770 00:49:57,798 --> 00:50:00,931 There are those who've long believed they were lovers. 771 00:50:01,106 --> 00:50:04,935 Based on my December 7, 2012, meeting with Alain, 772 00:50:05,110 --> 00:50:10,767 where a death mask, incredibly, thumped against the wall of his Hollywood apartment, 773 00:50:10,941 --> 00:50:13,379 which was like a Morrison shrine, 774 00:50:13,553 --> 00:50:18,166 I've maintained hope that he helped Jim find the anonymous peace he craved. 775 00:50:32,050 --> 00:50:34,400 [Jeff] And are you sure that it was ####, 776 00:50:34,574 --> 00:50:37,011 and maybe the guy's not confusing him with some other dude 777 00:50:37,185 --> 00:50:39,622 that #### with Jim, being together in New York? 778 00:50:40,580 --> 00:50:42,799 I could be confusing it, 779 00:50:42,973 --> 00:50:45,411 but it was somebody on ####'s level. 780 00:50:45,585 --> 00:50:47,717 Yeah. Was it a guy named Todd Schiffman? 781 00:50:47,891 --> 00:50:49,806 - No, no, no. - No? 782 00:50:49,980 --> 00:50:51,982 - Or Michael McClure, the poet? - No. 783 00:50:52,157 --> 00:50:53,636 I've heard that McClure and Jim-- 784 00:50:53,810 --> 00:50:56,509 It was somebody involved with the recording process. 785 00:50:57,945 --> 00:51:02,689 If you would be so kind as to let us see you without your hat 786 00:51:02,863 --> 00:51:05,126 so we can see your face better, 'cause the-- 787 00:51:05,300 --> 00:51:07,998 You know, the bill on your cap covers your eyes like-- Just like mine does. 788 00:51:08,173 --> 00:51:09,565 Yeah. You're gonna be surprised. 789 00:51:09,739 --> 00:51:11,350 So there's a shadow. There's a shadow. 790 00:51:11,524 --> 00:51:14,353 - You thought I was about 31, 32. - Right? 791 00:51:14,527 --> 00:51:15,963 Oh, you lost it pretty early? 792 00:51:16,137 --> 00:51:18,705 - Yeah. Pretty much. - Yeah. Right on. 793 00:51:18,879 --> 00:51:21,055 - And then-- - Little more each year. 794 00:51:21,229 --> 00:51:23,318 And then the other thing, and I know this is absurd, so if you're offended, 795 00:51:23,492 --> 00:51:26,495 please don't-- You don't have to do anything, but we were wondering if-- 796 00:51:26,669 --> 00:51:30,238 You know, because I thought for the longest time you were wearing brown contact lenses... 797 00:51:30,412 --> 00:51:32,153 Mm-hm. 798 00:51:32,327 --> 00:51:33,633 ...if we could do a close-up of your eyes without your hat? 799 00:51:33,807 --> 00:51:35,374 - Oh, of course not. - Right? 800 00:51:37,071 --> 00:51:39,856 Awesome. Yeah, there's your brown eyes, right? 801 00:51:40,030 --> 00:51:42,337 [Jeff laughs] 802 00:51:43,164 --> 00:51:44,470 - Fantastic. - All right? 803 00:51:44,644 --> 00:51:47,037 - All right? - Thank you so much. 804 00:51:47,212 --> 00:51:52,086 [Jeff] I feel like I'm viewing blue eyes covered by brown contact lenses. 805 00:51:52,260 --> 00:51:54,306 The pupils seem murky, 806 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,699 and the brown edges are too perfect, 807 00:51:56,873 --> 00:52:00,573 with a blue ring encircling the outside of the contacts. 808 00:52:01,748 --> 00:52:04,359 Do you see blue eyes? 809 00:52:21,768 --> 00:52:23,335 I flew back to L.A. 810 00:52:23,509 --> 00:52:26,860 with this absurd phrase on a loop in my brain: 811 00:52:27,469 --> 00:52:32,082 "Tell me you're Jim Morrison without telling me you're Jim Morrison." 812 00:52:33,475 --> 00:52:35,216 I needed to talk with Cheryl 813 00:52:35,390 --> 00:52:40,178 about the possibility that Frank actually could be... Jim. 814 00:52:42,180 --> 00:52:45,183 One of the sticking points when first meeting Frank 815 00:52:45,357 --> 00:52:47,359 was that he had brown eyes. 816 00:52:47,533 --> 00:52:50,840 But he also had a blue ring around the iris of his eyes. 817 00:52:51,406 --> 00:52:53,930 Ask any hardcore Morrison fan 818 00:52:54,104 --> 00:52:56,933 and they'll tell you Jim had blue eyes, 819 00:52:57,107 --> 00:52:59,414 possibly even blue-gray. 820 00:53:12,558 --> 00:53:16,083 [Jeff] So I took a low-pixel, a low-res, photo 821 00:53:16,257 --> 00:53:18,477 to an eye doctor here, 822 00:53:18,651 --> 00:53:20,261 - ophthalmologist. - Mm-hm. 823 00:53:20,435 --> 00:53:23,221 She took one look and said, "That's arcus senilis," 824 00:53:23,395 --> 00:53:28,051 which is a condition some older people have related to cholesterol. 825 00:53:28,226 --> 00:53:31,664 So again, it's like, you think you got it lying right there, 826 00:53:31,838 --> 00:53:34,623 and then it's always-- You're always just... You know? 827 00:53:34,797 --> 00:53:37,800 [Bombaugh] Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of coincidences, 828 00:53:37,974 --> 00:53:39,237 a lot of coincidences, 829 00:53:39,411 --> 00:53:41,804 and a lot of just really bizarre things. 830 00:53:41,978 --> 00:53:44,981 But I don't know. I... 831 00:53:46,287 --> 00:53:48,811 I can't, like, neatly wrap it up, 832 00:53:48,985 --> 00:53:50,335 which really bugs me. 833 00:53:53,773 --> 00:53:56,254 [Jeff] When I first traveled to interview Frank, 834 00:53:56,428 --> 00:53:58,038 we met at a diner. 835 00:53:58,212 --> 00:53:59,735 After talking for a while, 836 00:53:59,909 --> 00:54:02,260 he said he needed to smoke a cigarette. 837 00:54:02,434 --> 00:54:06,786 I expected to watch him bolt and disappear forever, 838 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:08,135 but he didn't. 839 00:54:09,049 --> 00:54:12,444 So when he wasn't looking, I grabbed his water glass. 840 00:54:13,358 --> 00:54:15,490 And then Frank walked back in. 841 00:54:18,188 --> 00:54:21,191 Time to have it looked at by a professional. 842 00:54:21,366 --> 00:54:24,194 [upbeat electronic music playing] 843 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,341 My funding, like my energy, is running on empty. 844 00:54:41,168 --> 00:54:44,737 So this may be my last hope for a positive ID. 845 00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,828 The forensic identification specialist is Kurt Kuhn, 846 00:54:49,002 --> 00:54:51,221 who has over 40 years of experience 847 00:54:51,396 --> 00:54:54,050 in civil and criminal casework. 848 00:55:16,246 --> 00:55:18,901 [Kuhn] The first part of the process is to actually look at the evidence item 849 00:55:19,075 --> 00:55:20,947 and make a determination 850 00:55:21,121 --> 00:55:24,385 if there's any actual visible fingerprint ridge structure there. 851 00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:28,694 If there is, that needs to be photographically documented from the start 852 00:55:28,868 --> 00:55:30,609 because we don't know what's gonna happen 853 00:55:30,783 --> 00:55:33,916 in regards to the actual superglue process itself. 854 00:55:34,090 --> 00:55:36,745 Visual examination on this piece of evidence: 855 00:55:37,311 --> 00:55:39,487 I can see some smudges. 856 00:55:39,661 --> 00:55:43,012 I didn't see anything that was actually usable fingerprint ridge structure. 857 00:55:43,186 --> 00:55:47,930 So the next process we're gonna do is we're gonna prep the superglue chamber. 858 00:55:48,583 --> 00:55:51,064 We're gonna use a superglue pouch, 859 00:55:51,238 --> 00:55:54,284 which is a pouch that has superglue, 860 00:55:54,459 --> 00:55:58,158 which technically is cyanoacrylate esters, 861 00:55:58,332 --> 00:56:01,727 and it's combined with kind of a petroleum-jelly product. 862 00:56:09,169 --> 00:56:12,694 And we're going to attach it to part of the superglue chamber. 863 00:56:13,478 --> 00:56:15,523 And the fumes then will basically... 864 00:56:17,220 --> 00:56:19,745 for lack of a better word, I guess, fall down 865 00:56:19,919 --> 00:56:21,224 on the evidence item. 866 00:56:23,357 --> 00:56:27,709 Let me get the evidence item and the control card in here. 867 00:56:27,883 --> 00:56:30,799 The control card puts some impressions on the card, 868 00:56:30,973 --> 00:56:34,673 and again, this is going to allow me to make a determination 869 00:56:34,847 --> 00:56:38,328 as when there should have been adequate development. 870 00:56:38,503 --> 00:56:40,940 Now, the superglue process itself, 871 00:56:41,114 --> 00:56:45,553 the cyanoacrylate-ester fumes adhere to an impression 872 00:56:45,727 --> 00:56:48,469 that may be on the evidence item itself. 873 00:56:48,643 --> 00:56:53,082 Now, that impression is typically either perspiration or sebaceous oils, 874 00:56:53,256 --> 00:56:58,566 leaving kind of a translucent semipermanent impression on there. 875 00:56:58,740 --> 00:57:02,048 At that point in time, if there is a fingerprint that's developed 876 00:57:02,222 --> 00:57:05,355 we'll start doing some photographic procedures on it. 877 00:57:05,530 --> 00:57:09,359 The process itself can be anywhere from a minimum of 45 minutes, 878 00:57:09,534 --> 00:57:10,970 and it could even take longer than that. 879 00:57:11,144 --> 00:57:13,363 [ticking] 880 00:57:23,199 --> 00:57:27,073 The fuming process has been going on for about an hour and a half. 881 00:57:30,076 --> 00:57:32,687 So I'm gonna go ahead and shut that down. 882 00:57:32,861 --> 00:57:36,561 I checked the control card at 45 minutes. 883 00:57:37,300 --> 00:57:38,563 There was development. 884 00:57:38,737 --> 00:57:41,609 At about an hour, there was development. 885 00:57:41,783 --> 00:57:43,568 And the last time I checked it, 886 00:57:43,742 --> 00:57:47,397 at an hour and 15 minutes and an hour and 30 minutes, 887 00:57:47,572 --> 00:57:51,793 there was fairly significant development on the control card. 888 00:57:52,490 --> 00:57:55,971 So now we'll see what the evidence item actually looks like. 889 00:58:00,759 --> 00:58:03,109 And with a little bit of just oblique lighting, you can see 890 00:58:03,283 --> 00:58:09,594 that the control card has got at least some kind of usable fingerprints on it. 891 00:58:09,768 --> 00:58:14,642 So let's take the back-- The glass back over under a little better lighting. 892 00:58:16,165 --> 00:58:18,559 [upbeat music playing] 893 00:58:55,291 --> 00:58:59,469 Well, there's a lot of chemical reaction, 894 00:58:59,644 --> 00:59:01,341 or polymerization. 895 00:59:01,907 --> 00:59:03,517 The problem with a drinking glass 896 00:59:03,691 --> 00:59:07,086 could very often be in the fact that if it was damp... 897 00:59:08,435 --> 00:59:12,004 whatever... fingerprint residue, 898 00:59:12,178 --> 00:59:15,660 which would be either perspiration or sebaceous oils, 899 00:59:15,834 --> 00:59:17,487 that was transferred to the surface 900 00:59:17,662 --> 00:59:20,012 mixed with whatever dampness was there. 901 00:59:20,186 --> 00:59:22,014 And I can see a lot of reaction, 902 00:59:22,188 --> 00:59:24,451 I can see a lot of areas where it's been handled, 903 00:59:24,625 --> 00:59:28,020 but there is no usable friction ridge structure 904 00:59:28,194 --> 00:59:33,503 or fingerprint detail or fingerprint minutiae present on the glass. 905 00:59:53,219 --> 00:59:55,961 [Jeff] As Jim once said on a New York stage, 906 00:59:56,135 --> 00:59:58,920 "Well, everything is fucked up as usual." 907 00:59:59,094 --> 01:00:02,097 Still, I plowed ahead into DNA testing 908 01:00:02,271 --> 01:00:04,012 via the Jean Genet novel 909 01:00:04,186 --> 01:00:07,407 that Robyn Wurtele, Jim's assistant, had given me. 910 01:00:08,190 --> 01:00:11,716 Robyn told me it had been Jim's personal copy in Paris 911 01:00:11,890 --> 01:00:15,110 and had hardly been touched in all the ensuing years. 912 01:00:16,938 --> 01:00:20,899 Forensic DNA expert Marc Taylor had come highly recommended 913 01:00:21,073 --> 01:00:23,597 by Kurt Kuhn, and vice versa. 914 01:00:24,250 --> 01:00:27,819 Taylor's professional reputation spoke for itself. 915 01:00:27,993 --> 01:00:29,864 Back in 1994, 916 01:00:30,038 --> 01:00:33,694 he declined involvement with the O.J. Simpson murder case 917 01:00:33,868 --> 01:00:38,090 after he sensed corruption and wanted no part of it. 918 01:00:48,361 --> 01:00:52,670 [Taylor] The DNA that comes off of your hands gets on there because you touch yourself. 919 01:00:52,844 --> 01:00:55,107 You rub your eyes, you scratch your head, 920 01:00:55,281 --> 01:00:57,892 you rub the sides of your mouth. 921 01:00:58,066 --> 01:00:59,589 You pick up cells that way. 922 01:00:59,764 --> 01:01:01,635 That gets mixed up with the oils 923 01:01:01,809 --> 01:01:04,159 and the perspiration that's on your hands. 924 01:01:04,333 --> 01:01:07,641 As we perspire, the perspiration comes out to the surface, 925 01:01:07,815 --> 01:01:09,425 the water evaporates, 926 01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:12,428 and you end up with a gooey kind of protein, 927 01:01:12,602 --> 01:01:15,083 this proteinaceous goo that's on there. 928 01:01:15,257 --> 01:01:18,478 Then you transfer it to other things that you touch in that way. 929 01:01:18,652 --> 01:01:23,831 And so the-- Probably the most common way we transfer our DNA around is off of our hands. 930 01:01:24,005 --> 01:01:27,705 What we're looking for in a case like this is that material 931 01:01:27,879 --> 01:01:30,708 that's basically the same material that would form fingerprints. 932 01:01:30,882 --> 01:01:35,016 We lift it off and can isolate the DNA from it if it's present. 933 01:01:35,190 --> 01:01:37,584 There was some stuff-- Maybe some sticky stuff 934 01:01:38,150 --> 01:01:40,500 that looked like it was attached to the front of it. 935 01:01:40,979 --> 01:01:42,676 And then there were some streaks of things. 936 01:01:42,850 --> 01:01:44,547 It may be that something got on there 937 01:01:44,722 --> 01:01:46,724 and it got shoved into the bookshelf 938 01:01:46,898 --> 01:01:48,290 and had smeared it. 939 01:01:48,813 --> 01:01:51,511 Anytime we see something that looks different, 940 01:01:51,685 --> 01:01:53,905 we collect that as a separate swab, 941 01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:55,515 because the best thing you can get 942 01:01:55,689 --> 01:01:58,126 is to get a single-source profile off of something. 943 01:01:58,300 --> 01:02:01,521 And if you've got something that got stuck on there from one person's hands 944 01:02:01,695 --> 01:02:03,479 and we can see that and swab it up, 945 01:02:03,653 --> 01:02:05,743 we might be able to get a single-source profile from that. 946 01:02:05,917 --> 01:02:09,094 I'm not seeing anything that indicates to me that there is-- 947 01:02:09,268 --> 01:02:12,053 "Oh, somebody's handled this particular area," 948 01:02:12,227 --> 01:02:14,621 how they would touch the pages or anything like that. 949 01:02:14,795 --> 01:02:16,841 [Jeff] As Marc and his assistant, Ann, 950 01:02:17,015 --> 01:02:18,973 bagged my DNA evidence, 951 01:02:19,147 --> 01:02:23,151 I went home feeling anxious but cautiously optimistic. 952 01:02:27,068 --> 01:02:30,811 A few weeks later, I returned to Marc Taylor's DNA lab, 953 01:02:30,985 --> 01:02:32,726 ready to learn the results. 954 01:02:33,379 --> 01:02:37,122 To say I was a jumble of nerves would be an understatement. 955 01:02:45,173 --> 01:02:48,394 What we're seeing at this point is we're seeing 956 01:02:50,570 --> 01:02:55,705 that there is what appears to be a major donor on the book here. 957 01:02:57,098 --> 01:03:02,147 Now, clearly what we see is the individual whose DNA is on the glass 958 01:03:02,321 --> 01:03:06,281 is not the individual who's a major donor on the book. 959 01:03:07,587 --> 01:03:09,502 When we look at the minor donors, 960 01:03:09,676 --> 01:03:12,853 we see some consistency there. 961 01:03:13,027 --> 01:03:15,334 But it's very difficult to determine 962 01:03:15,508 --> 01:03:18,032 because, again, we do have degradation here. 963 01:03:18,206 --> 01:03:21,949 Now, degradation is not unexpected on something like a book 964 01:03:22,123 --> 01:03:23,864 because we're dealing with a situation 965 01:03:24,038 --> 01:03:28,390 where this has been just sitting around for a long, long time. 966 01:03:28,564 --> 01:03:31,959 And just the oxygen in the air will degrade DNA with time. 967 01:03:32,133 --> 01:03:34,962 But as I said, the individual from the glass 968 01:03:35,136 --> 01:03:37,312 is not the major donor on the book. 969 01:03:37,486 --> 01:03:38,661 [Jeff] Okay. 970 01:03:45,277 --> 01:03:47,888 [Taylor] It gets confusing when you get down to these low levels 971 01:03:48,062 --> 01:03:50,108 because you have low-level donors, 972 01:03:50,282 --> 01:03:54,068 and some are gonna disappear at this level because it's so degraded. 973 01:03:54,242 --> 01:03:57,245 This is sort of the opposite of a match, like a non-match, right? 974 01:03:57,419 --> 01:04:00,988 It's a non-match, but again, I emphasize it's a non-match 975 01:04:01,162 --> 01:04:03,686 with regard to the major donor on there. 976 01:04:03,861 --> 01:04:08,387 And that's where we would be very curious whether that would be your own DNA on the book, so. 977 01:04:20,529 --> 01:04:23,663 Oh, yeah, you wanna get the--? My name on there? 978 01:04:24,794 --> 01:04:26,187 Hey, kids, it's me. 979 01:04:30,148 --> 01:04:32,715 [Jeff] To eliminate me as the major donor, 980 01:04:32,890 --> 01:04:35,762 my DNA was swabbed for a comparison. 981 01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:48,775 I once again headed back to Los Angeles and waited. 982 01:04:49,558 --> 01:04:53,127 Finally, Marc called and told me the results were ready. 983 01:04:53,301 --> 01:04:56,609 I was depleted, emotionally and physically, 984 01:04:56,783 --> 01:05:00,047 but I had to know if the major DNA donor 985 01:05:00,221 --> 01:05:03,094 on the Jean Genet novel was Jim, 986 01:05:03,268 --> 01:05:06,836 Frank, yours truly, someone random, 987 01:05:07,011 --> 01:05:08,621 or all of the above. 988 01:05:11,015 --> 01:05:14,018 - [Jeff] Hello. How are you? - Pretty good. 989 01:05:14,192 --> 01:05:15,671 - It's been a week. - Thanks. 990 01:05:15,845 --> 01:05:17,325 Yeah. 991 01:05:17,499 --> 01:05:19,023 - [cameraman] Thank you. - Hi. You're welcome. 992 01:05:21,112 --> 01:05:23,941 Give it to me straight, doc. [chuckles] 993 01:05:25,464 --> 01:05:27,161 - Well-- - How long have I got to live? 994 01:05:27,335 --> 01:05:28,467 [chuckles] 995 01:05:35,953 --> 01:05:38,738 Well, we have a mixture of DNA on the book, 996 01:05:38,912 --> 01:05:40,740 which isn't surprising at all. 997 01:05:41,349 --> 01:05:45,049 And we have what is one primary profile 998 01:05:45,223 --> 01:05:46,659 that's the major profile, 999 01:05:46,833 --> 01:05:49,009 and that's consistent on the different samples. 1000 01:05:49,183 --> 01:05:51,359 This is your reference sample 1001 01:05:51,533 --> 01:05:54,797 that we collected from you, and this is your profile. 1002 01:05:54,972 --> 01:05:58,410 Everybody that we're talking about here is male. 1003 01:05:58,584 --> 01:06:03,545 So the major profile that we see on the book 1004 01:06:03,719 --> 01:06:05,852 is consistent with your profile. 1005 01:06:06,026 --> 01:06:08,202 And if you had picked up the book and handled it, 1006 01:06:08,376 --> 01:06:11,162 especially in a more recent time, 1007 01:06:11,336 --> 01:06:12,902 closer to when we actually sampled it, 1008 01:06:13,077 --> 01:06:14,426 that makes sense 1009 01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:16,384 that we're seeing you as the number one. 1010 01:06:16,558 --> 01:06:17,995 And so the issue that we're seeing 1011 01:06:18,169 --> 01:06:20,606 is we've got low-level alleles 1012 01:06:20,780 --> 01:06:24,610 that could come from the individual on the glass, 1013 01:06:25,567 --> 01:06:28,440 but we also have low-level alleles that could not come 1014 01:06:28,614 --> 01:06:30,703 from the individual on the glass. 1015 01:06:30,877 --> 01:06:35,403 We do see areas where we've got fairly sensitive genetic locations, 1016 01:06:35,577 --> 01:06:38,841 where we would expect to see his alleles showing up, 1017 01:06:39,494 --> 01:06:44,021 but they're not there on-- At some locations. 1018 01:06:44,195 --> 01:06:47,198 So when we're looking at this, we end up in this area 1019 01:06:47,372 --> 01:06:49,852 where we've got an inconclusive result. 1020 01:06:50,027 --> 01:06:54,422 Some alleles from this individual are seen in the background here, 1021 01:06:54,596 --> 01:06:58,470 but we know that there would have to be at least one other individual 1022 01:06:58,644 --> 01:07:02,996 to give us the alleles that do not come from the individual on the glass. 1023 01:07:04,084 --> 01:07:08,784 She said the chain of custody is basically next to none. 1024 01:07:08,958 --> 01:07:11,135 In other words, he gave her the book 1025 01:07:11,309 --> 01:07:13,746 when they were in Paris in 1971. 1026 01:07:14,703 --> 01:07:18,620 So I don't know if you have further to go, or do you have a final determination or...? 1027 01:07:18,794 --> 01:07:22,711 The final determination is we see your DNA on this glass. 1028 01:07:22,885 --> 01:07:24,496 It's quite-- 1029 01:07:24,670 --> 01:07:26,846 - On the book. Yeah. - Excuse me, on the book, yeah. 1030 01:07:27,020 --> 01:07:30,241 We do not see any foreign DNA on the glass-- 1031 01:07:30,415 --> 01:07:32,852 That we can identify as being foreign DNA. 1032 01:07:33,026 --> 01:07:38,336 And what we're looking at on the book is a profile 1033 01:07:38,510 --> 01:07:43,297 which I suspect is a profile from at least three people. 1034 01:07:44,255 --> 01:07:46,779 One major, yourself, 1035 01:07:46,953 --> 01:07:50,739 and at least two minor donors. 1036 01:07:50,913 --> 01:07:52,176 Could be even more than that. 1037 01:07:52,350 --> 01:07:54,743 There's no way to determine that. 1038 01:07:54,917 --> 01:07:58,530 And that makes it much more difficult, then, to interpret what we've got. 1039 01:07:58,704 --> 01:08:01,010 We can't reasonably make assumptions 1040 01:08:01,185 --> 01:08:03,709 that would allow us to give a statistic for it. 1041 01:08:03,883 --> 01:08:04,927 Yeah. 1042 01:08:05,450 --> 01:08:07,191 So there's a chance-- 1043 01:08:07,365 --> 01:08:09,062 You know, there's a chance for everything or anything, I guess. 1044 01:08:09,236 --> 01:08:12,021 But there's a chance-- Obviously I'm the major donor on the book. 1045 01:08:12,196 --> 01:08:13,110 Right. 1046 01:08:13,284 --> 01:08:14,850 There is a technical chance 1047 01:08:15,024 --> 01:08:18,724 that the woman who gifted me the book is underneath me 1048 01:08:18,898 --> 01:08:21,292 as the second donor, minor donor, 1049 01:08:21,466 --> 01:08:26,732 and then Jim potentially, possibly, could be the third donor below her. 1050 01:08:26,906 --> 01:08:27,776 That's possible. 1051 01:08:28,603 --> 01:08:31,258 [Jeff] Inconclusive again. 1052 01:08:32,041 --> 01:08:34,870 Fifty-year-old DNA as a minor donor 1053 01:08:35,044 --> 01:08:39,048 unfortunately did not yield the result I wanted. 1054 01:08:40,398 --> 01:08:42,574 Although nothing can be ruled out, 1055 01:08:42,748 --> 01:08:46,882 scientific evidence, at this point, seems unlikely. 1056 01:08:50,277 --> 01:08:55,152 The fact that photos of Jim and Frank contained numerous matches 1057 01:08:55,326 --> 01:08:56,979 left my mind reeling. 1058 01:08:58,198 --> 01:09:01,636 But I also recognized that my vantage point had become clouded 1059 01:09:01,810 --> 01:09:04,552 once I began to care for Frank as a friend. 1060 01:09:06,337 --> 01:09:10,428 After a half century, anyone can undergo vast changes 1061 01:09:10,602 --> 01:09:13,387 in their physical and psychological makeup, 1062 01:09:14,083 --> 01:09:15,868 especially if they spent that time 1063 01:09:16,042 --> 01:09:19,437 living out Jim's answer to Salli Stevenson 1064 01:09:19,611 --> 01:09:22,440 when she asked, during one of his final interviews, 1065 01:09:22,614 --> 01:09:26,313 what his life would entail if he had the whole thing to do over. 1066 01:09:27,053 --> 01:09:31,666 His reply, quote, "A quiet, undemonstrative little artist 1067 01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:34,234 plodding away in his own garden." 1068 01:09:36,541 --> 01:09:41,067 In any case, so many of Jim and Frank's traits dovetailed 1069 01:09:41,241 --> 01:09:44,897 that finally, three of Jim's former girlfriends 1070 01:09:45,071 --> 01:09:46,855 agreed to take part in 1071 01:09:47,900 --> 01:09:50,511 an experiment in facial recognition. 1072 01:09:51,947 --> 01:09:53,993 So, my dear, you're going to be opening... 1073 01:09:54,167 --> 01:09:55,429 - This one. - ...this side first. 1074 01:09:55,603 --> 01:09:57,736 - The right. Your right. - Okay. 1075 01:09:57,953 --> 01:10:01,043 Oh, dear. What are you up to now? [laughs] 1076 01:10:01,218 --> 01:10:05,047 [man] So we're gonna have you open up the right side first. 1077 01:10:06,745 --> 01:10:09,313 - And then the left side. Okay? - Right side first. Okay. 1078 01:10:14,492 --> 01:10:15,623 That's John Densmore. 1079 01:10:17,364 --> 01:10:18,844 Uh, it's John. 1080 01:10:19,627 --> 01:10:21,629 - Oh, my gosh. - [Jeff] So who is that? 1081 01:10:21,803 --> 01:10:23,065 John Densmore. 1082 01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:24,893 Looks a little startled. 1083 01:10:25,807 --> 01:10:26,895 Looks pretty good, though. 1084 01:10:27,069 --> 01:10:28,332 Oh, my God. 1085 01:10:29,202 --> 01:10:30,290 Wow. 1086 01:10:30,464 --> 01:10:32,771 - Okay, left side? - Yeah. Right. 1087 01:10:37,602 --> 01:10:40,126 And, oh, my goodness, who is that? 1088 01:10:41,301 --> 01:10:42,650 Um... 1089 01:10:42,824 --> 01:10:43,912 [Jeff] Who do you think it is? 1090 01:10:44,086 --> 01:10:46,263 Oh, my God. 1091 01:10:47,264 --> 01:10:49,788 Now, do you know who that might be on the other side there? 1092 01:10:49,962 --> 01:10:51,355 It's not Robby. 1093 01:10:51,529 --> 01:10:52,878 It's gotta be Ray. 1094 01:10:53,661 --> 01:10:56,142 [clock chiming] 1095 01:10:56,316 --> 01:10:58,057 [Jeff] And the chimes go on cue. 1096 01:10:58,231 --> 01:10:59,276 Um... 1097 01:11:04,019 --> 01:11:05,847 It's not. I don't... 1098 01:11:07,893 --> 01:11:08,937 Nice beard. 1099 01:11:09,547 --> 01:11:11,026 Give me a hint. 1100 01:11:11,592 --> 01:11:14,247 [Jeff] I'll just ask you, do you think there's any chance... 1101 01:11:14,421 --> 01:11:16,815 - It could be Jim? - ...that it could be Jim? 1102 01:11:16,989 --> 01:11:19,296 I-- I-- Wow. 1103 01:11:19,470 --> 01:11:21,907 I was gonna say that, but it can't be. 1104 01:11:22,603 --> 01:11:25,171 - Well, could be? - It can't be. 1105 01:11:25,345 --> 01:11:28,392 Those eyes look-- And so does the nose. 1106 01:11:29,393 --> 01:11:30,742 Um, that could be Jim. 1107 01:11:30,916 --> 01:11:33,310 Where in the hell did you find this? 1108 01:11:39,403 --> 01:11:40,404 Really? 1109 01:11:43,276 --> 01:11:45,844 Like that? Oh, my gosh. 1110 01:11:49,151 --> 01:11:51,415 That's the Jim I remember, right there. 1111 01:11:51,589 --> 01:11:52,677 That's how he looked when you knew him? 1112 01:11:52,851 --> 01:11:53,765 Yes. 1113 01:11:53,939 --> 01:11:54,983 Okay. 1114 01:11:58,204 --> 01:11:59,510 Oh, my goodness. 1115 01:11:59,684 --> 01:12:01,338 Definitely the nose looks that way. 1116 01:12:03,557 --> 01:12:05,037 Same thing with the cheekbones. 1117 01:12:05,646 --> 01:12:07,256 This guy has brown eyes. 1118 01:12:08,780 --> 01:12:10,347 Jim's eyes were blue. 1119 01:12:12,044 --> 01:12:15,656 Oh, my God. Where did you guys find this? 1120 01:12:17,223 --> 01:12:18,267 Gosh. 1121 01:12:20,008 --> 01:12:21,488 That's really strange. 1122 01:12:22,359 --> 01:12:23,534 That literally could be Jim. 1123 01:12:23,708 --> 01:12:25,884 I mean, that is ridiculous, but yes. 1124 01:12:27,059 --> 01:12:29,627 [Jeff] Do you think that's a 73-year-old Jim Morrison? 1125 01:12:29,801 --> 01:12:30,758 It could be. 1126 01:12:30,932 --> 01:12:32,456 I mean, look at the eyes. 1127 01:12:32,934 --> 01:12:35,807 And what is John hanging around with this guy? 1128 01:12:35,981 --> 01:12:38,853 Really hard to tell with the hat, um... 1129 01:12:39,724 --> 01:12:43,467 Ooh, it kind of, like, brings the tears to my eyes. 1130 01:12:45,294 --> 01:12:46,252 Wow. 1131 01:12:46,426 --> 01:12:47,427 [Jeff chuckles] 1132 01:12:48,907 --> 01:12:50,343 What about the mole? 1133 01:12:51,692 --> 01:12:53,825 [Jeff] I believe that was the first thing to go. 1134 01:12:53,999 --> 01:12:56,480 Easy outpatient removal. 1135 01:12:56,654 --> 01:12:59,004 I don't-- I thought it might be him, actually, 1136 01:12:59,178 --> 01:13:00,745 but then I didn't wanna say anything, 1137 01:13:00,919 --> 01:13:03,312 'cause I thought, "That'll sound so stupid." 1138 01:13:03,965 --> 01:13:06,228 Well, there is some match. I mean... 1139 01:13:07,316 --> 01:13:12,974 But this guy really looks a lot like Jim. 1140 01:13:15,455 --> 01:13:19,111 Just base on-- Based on the intensity of the eyes... 1141 01:13:23,420 --> 01:13:27,511 - When was this taken? - [Jeff] Roughly about 2014. 1142 01:13:28,468 --> 01:13:31,515 The reflection in the eye... 1143 01:13:34,039 --> 01:13:36,955 doesn't seem like the reflection that you would see 1144 01:13:37,129 --> 01:13:38,347 in a human being's eye. 1145 01:13:38,522 --> 01:13:40,567 It seems like it could be a lens. 1146 01:13:40,741 --> 01:13:42,308 [sighs] 1147 01:13:42,482 --> 01:13:44,353 [Jeff] Sorry, I know this is a lot to throw at you, 1148 01:13:44,528 --> 01:13:46,878 but now you know why I couldn't tell you on the phone. 1149 01:13:47,052 --> 01:13:48,967 Because I would have ruined the surprise. 1150 01:13:49,141 --> 01:13:50,185 Surprise? 1151 01:13:50,359 --> 01:13:52,492 [Jeff] Surprise! We wanted to-- 1152 01:13:52,666 --> 01:13:54,929 "Surprise" is putting it mildly. 1153 01:13:55,103 --> 01:13:58,629 The first thing that I thought was the nose, definitely, 1154 01:13:58,803 --> 01:14:00,761 and then the cheekbones. 1155 01:14:00,935 --> 01:14:04,591 Ear, yes. Nose, not so sure. 1156 01:14:04,765 --> 01:14:06,680 God, I wish I could see his mouth. 1157 01:14:07,159 --> 01:14:10,336 - That's really uncanny. - [Jeff] Yeah. 1158 01:14:11,163 --> 01:14:14,601 [man] That's what the nickname of this movie's become, Uncanny. 1159 01:14:14,775 --> 01:14:16,037 [Jeff] Would you say it's uncanny? 1160 01:14:16,211 --> 01:14:18,039 Very uncanny. 1161 01:14:18,213 --> 01:14:19,911 And the very idea that John's standing next to him. [laughs] 1162 01:14:20,085 --> 01:14:23,262 It's like, "Okay, guys, what's going on here?" 1163 01:14:26,526 --> 01:14:27,875 [sighs] 1164 01:14:28,049 --> 01:14:30,443 It's still-- It's absolutely fascinating. 1165 01:14:32,837 --> 01:14:35,361 Yeah, I wouldn't put it past the old bastard to do it. 1166 01:14:37,624 --> 01:14:38,712 [exhales] 1167 01:14:41,062 --> 01:14:43,587 How did you not just jump out of your skin? 1168 01:14:45,197 --> 01:14:46,677 - [Jeff] I still don't-- - How did you hold it together? 1169 01:14:46,851 --> 01:14:48,156 I still don't know. 1170 01:14:48,330 --> 01:14:50,507 [Jeff] After 50 years, 1171 01:14:50,681 --> 01:14:54,075 the expert ladies each saw what I saw, 1172 01:14:54,249 --> 01:14:58,645 a haunting resemblance between Jim and Frank. 1173 01:15:00,342 --> 01:15:02,214 - [man] Are you okay? - I can't swallow. 1174 01:15:02,388 --> 01:15:03,650 - You okay? - Yeah. 1175 01:15:03,824 --> 01:15:05,043 You want some water or something? 1176 01:15:05,217 --> 01:15:07,132 - No, I'm fine. Uh-huh. - [Jeff] You sure? 1177 01:15:07,306 --> 01:15:11,440 - How about that shot of tequila? - Yeah, take that. Absolutely. 1178 01:15:11,615 --> 01:15:13,486 - I really need it now. - [Jeff] There you go. 1179 01:15:13,660 --> 01:15:14,531 Oh, God. 1180 01:15:20,406 --> 01:15:24,541 [Jeff] Do you, Frank ####, think Jim Morrison is dead or alive? 1181 01:15:25,890 --> 01:15:28,588 - What's your opinion? - I have no idea. 1182 01:15:29,154 --> 01:15:32,636 And, you know, if anybody would pull it off, 1183 01:15:32,810 --> 01:15:34,028 it would be him. 1184 01:15:34,202 --> 01:15:36,988 I don't think he needed adulation. 1185 01:15:37,902 --> 01:15:40,600 [Jeff] I feel like this is a confession from Jim, 1186 01:15:40,774 --> 01:15:43,777 who's been hiding in plain sight for decades, 1187 01:15:43,951 --> 01:15:46,345 where no one would expect a maintenance man 1188 01:15:46,519 --> 01:15:48,260 to have been the front man 1189 01:15:48,434 --> 01:15:52,177 for one of the most important rock bands of the 1960s. 1190 01:15:52,351 --> 01:15:55,572 Could this really be Jim Morrison? 1191 01:15:55,746 --> 01:15:58,313 For the record here, for the fans, 1192 01:15:58,487 --> 01:16:00,794 as part of my research into you, 1193 01:16:00,968 --> 01:16:04,015 I have to ask you formally: Are you Jim Morrison? 1194 01:16:04,581 --> 01:16:07,584 I am not Jim Morrison, except I am in the-- 1195 01:16:07,758 --> 01:16:10,717 I love the song by Jimmy Cliff: 1196 01:16:10,891 --> 01:16:13,546 "We all are one. We are the same person." 1197 01:16:15,026 --> 01:16:16,941 - [Jeff] Right on. - That's one way to look at it. 1198 01:16:17,115 --> 01:16:20,640 [Jeff] Frank's response haunted me to my core. 1199 01:16:20,814 --> 01:16:25,210 I felt totally in sync with Jim's legendary mind games, 1200 01:16:25,384 --> 01:16:28,735 but with a more mature and optimistic twist. 1201 01:16:29,736 --> 01:16:32,783 In Jimmy Cliff's song "We All Are One," 1202 01:16:32,957 --> 01:16:35,612 Cliff references the "universal world." 1203 01:16:36,134 --> 01:16:39,833 Jim famously sang of the "universal mind." 1204 01:16:40,007 --> 01:16:45,447 Was Frank's answer his way of letting Jim have his cake and eat it too? 1205 01:16:45,622 --> 01:16:47,754 Whether he slipped into anonymity 1206 01:16:47,928 --> 01:16:50,757 or died, as per the official account, 1207 01:16:50,931 --> 01:16:53,412 my goal is to reveal new facets 1208 01:16:53,586 --> 01:16:56,241 of the black diamond that is Jim. 1209 01:16:56,415 --> 01:16:59,853 Wherever he is, I hope he's found peace. 1210 01:17:00,854 --> 01:17:04,902 And while I may not have convinced you that Frank is Jim, 1211 01:17:05,076 --> 01:17:08,906 I hope you've come to appreciate James Douglas Morrison, 1212 01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:12,474 the timeless artist and human being. 1213 01:17:12,649 --> 01:17:15,434 And yet, if Frank is not Jim, 1214 01:17:15,608 --> 01:17:19,656 how do you explain all of these coincidences? 1215 01:17:20,569 --> 01:17:22,920 [upbeat music playing] 1216 01:17:39,023 --> 01:17:40,633 [Frank] I am not Jim Morrison. 1217 01:17:41,634 --> 01:17:44,332 We all are one. We are the same person. 1218 01:17:49,511 --> 01:17:51,383 [Jeff] I've studied Jim Morrison's life 1219 01:17:51,557 --> 01:17:53,037 and reported death 1220 01:17:53,211 --> 01:17:54,865 for nearly 40 years, 1221 01:17:55,039 --> 01:17:57,911 since I first read No One Here Gets Out Alive . 1222 01:17:58,433 --> 01:18:00,827 When I add that knowledge to what I learned 1223 01:18:01,001 --> 01:18:03,482 from the nearly 1000 people I contacted 1224 01:18:03,656 --> 01:18:07,660 and the hundreds I interviewed, my personal assessment: 1225 01:18:08,226 --> 01:18:13,187 James Douglas Morrison, amazingly, did fake his death 1226 01:18:13,361 --> 01:18:18,497 in Paris, France, on or around July 3rd, 1971. 1227 01:18:19,193 --> 01:18:21,761 Of course, as grim as it may sound, 1228 01:18:21,935 --> 01:18:24,329 exhumation of the Père-Lachaise grave 1229 01:18:24,503 --> 01:18:29,682 and DNA testing is the only way to prove the real truth. 1230 01:18:30,248 --> 01:18:35,079 But as Jim's grave has long been one of Paris' top tourist attractions 1231 01:18:35,253 --> 01:18:38,865 and one of the keys to his enduring following, 1232 01:18:39,039 --> 01:18:42,826 the Morrison powers that be apparently plan to stay complacent 1233 01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:47,178 while Jim's reality remains... a mystery. 1234 01:19:18,949 --> 01:19:24,911 ♪ Our electric friends Just pretend ♪ 1235 01:19:25,085 --> 01:19:30,047 ♪ Our electric friends Just pre-- ♪ 1236 01:19:43,364 --> 01:19:49,196 ♪ Tell me again why, where, when ♪ 1237 01:19:49,370 --> 01:19:55,289 ♪ Should I delete Or hit send? ♪ 1238 01:19:55,463 --> 01:20:01,165 ♪ Element bend See how you trend ♪ 1239 01:20:01,339 --> 01:20:07,171 ♪ Shall we deny or unfriend? ♪ 1240 01:20:10,130 --> 01:20:15,919 ♪ Tell me again why, where, when ♪ 1241 01:20:16,093 --> 01:20:21,881 ♪ Should I delete Or hit send? ♪ 1242 01:20:22,055 --> 01:20:27,887 ♪ Goodbye last band See how you trend ♪ 1243 01:20:28,061 --> 01:20:33,937 ♪ Shall we deny or unfriend? ♪ 104238

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