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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:41,569 --> 00:00:42,759 Kostas? 2 00:00:43,759 --> 00:00:44,679 Hi. 3 00:00:44,799 --> 00:00:45,280 Hi. 4 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:46,840 Sorry, I got a coffee. 5 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:48,119 No worries. 6 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:12,480 So... 7 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,079 What language shall we speak? 8 00:01:17,599 --> 00:01:19,280 I’ve learned Lithuanian. 9 00:01:19,719 --> 00:01:20,879 I’ve really improved at it. 10 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:22,719 I can still speak Russian. 11 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:24,640 No way. 12 00:01:24,799 --> 00:01:25,480 Why? 13 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,200 It’s just too heavy. 14 00:01:27,439 --> 00:01:28,760 What, for political reasons? 15 00:01:28,879 --> 00:01:30,599 It’s just not politics, it’s... 16 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:33,159 It’s more than that. 17 00:01:33,359 --> 00:01:35,219 I’m sorry, Kostas - no Russian for me right now. 18 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,480 So you’re boycotting your own language, wow... 19 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,760 It’s not my language. 20 00:01:42,599 --> 00:01:43,599 Fine. 21 00:01:45,719 --> 00:01:48,280 Let’s continue speaking our lingua franca. 22 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:56,799 How was your interview? 23 00:01:58,319 --> 00:01:58,840 Uh... 24 00:01:58,959 --> 00:02:00,120 They’ll call me. 25 00:02:00,959 --> 00:02:02,959 It was for an engineering job? 26 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:04,840 Yeah... 27 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,879 I work in an international IT firm. 28 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:09,879 It’s out of Vilnius. 29 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:11,759 I mentioned it in an email. 30 00:02:13,759 --> 00:02:14,919 Oh, right. Yeah. 31 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:16,000 Um... 32 00:02:17,439 --> 00:02:18,199 I’m... 33 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:21,960 I’m glad you had this opportunity. 34 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,960 I mean, I don’t know anything about the IT world, but... 35 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,719 You can sign it for me? 36 00:02:43,759 --> 00:02:45,439 So you did read it... 37 00:03:23,319 --> 00:03:24,759 Thank you, Kostas. 38 00:03:34,479 --> 00:03:36,000 So, how have you been? 39 00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:37,199 Good. 40 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,500 I am teaching culture in the Russian and Slavics department at the City University. 41 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,400 So, doing what I hate with people who don’t care... 42 00:03:47,639 --> 00:03:49,800 Are you gonna change that name anytime soon? 43 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:52,520 What does that even mean? 44 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,400 They lump these countries together and they just talk about Russian culture. 45 00:03:56,479 --> 00:03:57,879 They don’t even question it. 46 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,400 Lithuania has made you patriotic. 47 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,280 I am patriotic about Lithuania, 48 00:04:02,319 --> 00:04:04,800 and there’s no need to be insensitive. 49 00:04:05,719 --> 00:04:08,960 Well, the name is the least of the department’s problems. 50 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,360 For one thing, I’m not paid enough. 51 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,599 I should have gone into political science or history, not culture. 52 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,399 You know you’re living the dream, right? 53 00:04:21,319 --> 00:04:22,319 I mean... 54 00:04:22,959 --> 00:04:25,600 Successful European writer based in New York. 55 00:04:25,639 --> 00:04:27,199 Oh, Dima, wow... 56 00:04:27,199 --> 00:04:27,800 You’re just... 57 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,040 You’re living the dream. 58 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:30,439 You have a lot of nerve... 59 00:04:30,439 --> 00:04:31,959 You really have to appreciate it. 60 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:34,360 Can I have that book back? 61 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,399 - No, I want to change the note. - Just take a deep breath... 62 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:37,319 No! 63 00:04:37,319 --> 00:04:38,439 I want to change the note. 64 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:38,980 No, no, no... 65 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,040 You... You know what? 66 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,680 You should try meditation, 67 00:04:41,879 --> 00:04:43,439 you’re clearly distraught. 68 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:45,680 Fuck you. 69 00:04:49,399 --> 00:04:50,399 I know. 70 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:52,920 I hate it too. 71 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,319 You’re trying to sit still... 72 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,240 Intrusive thoughts... 73 00:04:58,319 --> 00:05:00,000 My head’s gonna explode. 74 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:01,920 Yeah. 75 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,240 You haven’t changed much. 76 00:05:10,439 --> 00:05:12,279 Oh, I’ve grown older. 77 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,279 You’re older but you’re still immature. 78 00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:19,160 The arrogance you have considering yourself the mature one. 79 00:05:20,199 --> 00:05:21,920 Oh, we’re not old old yet. 80 00:05:23,519 --> 00:05:25,399 We’re gonna be young-old soon. 81 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,279 Barely through our youth. 82 00:05:30,439 --> 00:05:32,120 Well, we’ve been around. 83 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,773 Listen. 84 00:05:40,456 --> 00:05:42,000 Thanks for reaching out. 85 00:05:43,959 --> 00:05:47,439 It’s really lovely to see you... 86 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,399 After all these years. 87 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,639 I’m not gonna apologize, but... 88 00:05:57,079 --> 00:05:58,759 It is lovely to see you. 89 00:06:00,079 --> 00:06:01,680 Ah, come on, Kostas. 90 00:06:03,639 --> 00:06:05,160 It’s been 30 years. 91 00:06:06,959 --> 00:06:07,959 It’s a... 92 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,680 It’s nice to see you too. 93 00:06:12,079 --> 00:06:13,600 Lovely to catch up. 94 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:17,959 No hard feelings. 95 00:06:20,439 --> 00:06:21,439 Cool. 96 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,153 So... 97 00:06:26,153 --> 00:06:27,800 How is your love life? 98 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:29,399 Well... 99 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,759 Well, you know, I got divorced a couple years back. 100 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,920 Yeah, I saw that on social media. 101 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,920 I did some research when you reached out. 102 00:06:38,319 --> 00:06:40,319 Did you really go over all my old posts? 103 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:41,540 No. No. 104 00:06:41,639 --> 00:06:44,040 Just the life events. 105 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:45,800 It’s only fair. 106 00:06:45,959 --> 00:06:46,839 Fair? Sure. 107 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,490 You don’t post anything personal on your social media. 108 00:06:49,490 --> 00:06:52,160 Well, you could have read my interviews. 109 00:06:53,879 --> 00:06:55,639 I did read your interviews. 110 00:06:55,639 --> 00:06:57,240 There you go. 111 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:01,240 Okay. 112 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:02,639 I have a plan. 113 00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:06,360 Let’s go back to my place for dinner. 114 00:07:26,605 --> 00:07:28,085 So, we’re gonna stop at the market, 115 00:07:28,085 --> 00:07:29,525 um, it’s down this street, 116 00:07:29,525 --> 00:07:32,832 then, we’re gonna go back and I live about three more blocks away. 117 00:07:32,832 --> 00:07:34,832 Do you live... This is where... You shop here all the time? 118 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:37,920 Well, it’s... I mean, it’s close by 119 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,700 and there’s good fresh produce. 120 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,319 So you’re having good time in New York? 121 00:08:04,519 --> 00:08:06,199 I mean, so far, yeah. 122 00:08:06,399 --> 00:08:07,399 Yeah! 123 00:08:07,519 --> 00:08:08,680 I’m glad. 124 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:25,720 What are we cooking? 125 00:08:25,759 --> 00:08:28,040 A recipe that, according to the saying, 126 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,560 has as many variations as it does babushkas who are cooking it. 127 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:33,200 How so? 128 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,159 We are making borscht. 129 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:36,960 Ah, I love it. 130 00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:50,879 Oh wait... 131 00:08:51,639 --> 00:08:53,159 I need to tell you something. 132 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,200 What now? 133 00:08:55,759 --> 00:08:57,200 I’m a vegan. 134 00:08:58,480 --> 00:08:59,679 You’re a vegan? 135 00:08:59,799 --> 00:09:00,799 Yeah... 136 00:09:01,399 --> 00:09:07,320 Well, however unpalatable, it might be a nice twist on the borscht discourse. 137 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:08,639 You really think so? 138 00:09:08,639 --> 00:09:09,639 Yes. 139 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,000 I attended Tomas’s father’s funeral a few years ago. 140 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:02,279 And? 141 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,639 I’d never seen his mother like this before. 142 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,720 She called me aside and she told me 143 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,879 she felt guilty her entire life. 144 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,039 What did she say? 145 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,360 She was devastated. 146 00:10:32,879 --> 00:10:36,840 She blamed his father for not taking Tomas home from the army. 147 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,279 Blamed herself for going along with his decision. 148 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,919 I feel like she felt she could speak more freely 149 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:45,919 since the old man had passed. 150 00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:49,159 I hope you were able to comfort her. 151 00:10:52,632 --> 00:10:53,576 Hmm... 152 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,626 I told her that... 153 00:11:02,626 --> 00:11:05,120 ...people commit suicide for complex reasons. 154 00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:10,519 It was natural for her to feel some guilt. 155 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,240 I told her she shouldn’t try and blame herself. 156 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:22,741 But... 157 00:12:31,799 --> 00:12:32,759 But what? 158 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:40,679 Kostas... 159 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,679 I think your book goes too far in excusing the parents’ choice. 160 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,159 I know it was a different time, different circumstances, but... 161 00:12:52,279 --> 00:12:55,519 They had a choice to bring their son home. 162 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,240 It was their choice not to. 163 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:00,879 Wasn’t much of a choice. 164 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,759 A Lithuanian conscript in the Soviet army is pushed to breaking point by the brutality 165 00:13:14,759 --> 00:13:16,639 of its institutional hazing. 166 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,639 When he tries to rebel, he’s held in detention and declared unfit to serve. 167 00:13:21,759 --> 00:13:23,559 His parents are given a choice: 168 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,600 bring him home with a socially stigmatizing 169 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:30,279 record of mental illness or leave him in the army to suffer. 170 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,039 They were given a choice. 171 00:13:33,039 --> 00:13:34,440 These are your words. 172 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,440 Those are the words of my publisher’s marketing department. 173 00:13:38,039 --> 00:13:41,440 Tomas would not have survived with a record of mental illness. 174 00:13:41,519 --> 00:13:44,720 He wouldn’t be able to get an apartment or even a job with that. 175 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,480 He would’ve been ostracized or thrown into some psychiatric ward. 176 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,399 And he wasn’t mentally ill. 177 00:13:52,039 --> 00:13:54,840 He was just being punished for being rebellious, 178 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,480 for not following the rules. 179 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:58,559 I disagree. 180 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,279 It was the eighties already. 181 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,639 Things were getting somewhat better. 182 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,600 You and I served in Stavropol, 183 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:08,759 we didn’t have these difficulties. 184 00:14:08,759 --> 00:14:10,879 How can you say things were getting better? 185 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,759 Tomas was pleading to be sent to Afghanistan. 186 00:14:13,879 --> 00:14:15,639 He hated the army so much, 187 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,360 he would rather die in a war that none of us believed in. 188 00:14:18,519 --> 00:14:22,919 All I’m saying is perhaps things were more challenging for Tomas because 189 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,080 he did have some mental health issues and that’s okay. 190 00:14:28,799 --> 00:14:30,679 He would’ve gotten the help needed when 191 00:14:30,679 --> 00:14:33,480 Lithuania gained her independence. 192 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,720 But no one knew that Lithuania would get its freedom. 193 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,080 So how could his parents know that? 194 00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:42,840 And mental health issues... 195 00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:46,159 Yes, we all have some. 196 00:14:47,159 --> 00:14:50,679 Especially those of us traumatized by the Soviet regime. 197 00:14:51,759 --> 00:14:54,200 But that doesn’t change the fact 198 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,120 that Tomas was being medicated as a form of punishment. 199 00:14:59,399 --> 00:15:01,519 They were given a choice. 200 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,639 It wasn’t a real choice. 201 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,919 It’s not fair to those who did make brave choices. 202 00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:10,360 People found ways to resist 203 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,080 even during the occupation. 204 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,200 Larger ways, smaller ways. 205 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:16,080 What the...? 206 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,840 What the fuck are you talking about? 207 00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:22,039 What ways to resist? 208 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,039 Yes, you could choose to resist and... 209 00:16:25,679 --> 00:16:26,679 ...die! 210 00:16:27,399 --> 00:16:31,159 You could choose to resist and be shot, killed, or deported. 211 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:32,919 You know, I feel that... 212 00:16:32,919 --> 00:16:35,039 Does that sound like a choice to you? 213 00:16:35,879 --> 00:16:39,279 A choice between living a normal life and becoming a martyr? 214 00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:41,120 You’re not grateful to the martyrs? 215 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,399 Yes, I am grateful. 216 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,200 Forever grateful. 217 00:16:45,879 --> 00:16:48,240 But I didn’t expect that from everyone. 218 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,159 I know that I wasn’t a martyr. 219 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,639 We went to the peaceful protests and the marches. 220 00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:55,840 We held hands with millions in 1989, in the Baltic Chain. 221 00:16:55,919 --> 00:16:58,799 And two years later, when the Soviet tanks rolled in, we stayed home. 222 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,399 But we honor those brave souls who did go out in the streets that night. 223 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,160 And those 14 victims who died, they were heroes. 224 00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:06,880 Their sacrifice matters. 225 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,400 Oh my God, will you stop this patriotic performance? 226 00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:12,759 No one is watching us. 227 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,400 You’re making life sound like a story. 228 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,279 You’re reducing complex choices 229 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,319 to a battle between good and evil. 230 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,920 It’s so much more complicated than that. 231 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,720 Perhaps you’re right. 232 00:17:38,319 --> 00:17:40,759 Did you come up all this way to review my books? 233 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:20,640 So... 234 00:18:21,079 --> 00:18:22,480 What’s your story? 235 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,000 My story? 236 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:27,920 Is that what you ask people? 237 00:18:28,039 --> 00:18:30,680 Yeah. I thought, well... 238 00:18:31,519 --> 00:18:33,920 Not everybody’s defined by their job. 239 00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:35,319 I definitely wouldn’t want 240 00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:37,000 people to think that that was 241 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,079 my only outlook on life, 242 00:18:38,079 --> 00:18:39,680 my only perspective. 243 00:18:42,039 --> 00:18:43,720 So now I ask... 244 00:18:44,759 --> 00:18:45,720 "What’s your story?" 245 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:47,880 How polite of you. 246 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,359 So what’s your story? 247 00:18:54,519 --> 00:18:56,640 Hmm, I wake up in the morning. 248 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,000 I get my coffee. 249 00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:59,519 Hot coffee. 250 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,480 I go to work. 251 00:19:01,799 --> 00:19:04,559 I come home in the evenings and I read, 252 00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:06,200 and I watch TV. 253 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,839 My story is one boring and secluded life, 254 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,240 with a touch of everyday resistance. 255 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,359 Routine of working, eating... 256 00:19:18,519 --> 00:19:20,440 ...and occasionally fucking. 257 00:19:21,319 --> 00:19:25,799 You could say my existence is one at odds with toxic optimism. 258 00:19:28,660 --> 00:19:30,319 I’ve said it before, 259 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:31,480 I’ll say it again. 260 00:19:31,519 --> 00:19:34,319 There are those who would envy your life here in New York. 261 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:35,440 Wait! 262 00:19:35,599 --> 00:19:38,440 Anyone who envies life in the United States surely 263 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:39,582 doesn’t understand... 264 00:19:40,677 --> 00:19:42,118 ...the extent of capitalist exploitation here. 265 00:19:47,799 --> 00:19:49,720 Well, I consider myself... 266 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,400 ...a liberal capitalist. 267 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:54,720 Of course you do. 268 00:19:54,759 --> 00:19:58,160 Even your question - what’s your story? - is a capitalist one. 269 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,920 Everyone needs to have a marketable life. 270 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,720 You sound like such a typical leftist right now. 271 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,279 How you go on in your books criticizing capitalism. 272 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,013 You saw how broken Soviet socialism was. 273 00:20:12,013 --> 00:20:14,237 That wasn’t real socialism. 274 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,000 I think it’s disgusting how... 275 00:20:21,839 --> 00:20:25,000 ...Western leftists, so-called socialists... 276 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,519 ...flirt with communism. 277 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,240 They put Soviet emblems on their clothing and, 278 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,960 and post on their social media. 279 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,119 They did not experience the Soviet regime. 280 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,559 They don’t know anything about it. 281 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,279 What makes you think I disagree with that? 282 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,720 The fact that some in the West look for answers where there are none, 283 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,319 just shows you how dissatisfied they are with their own governments. 284 00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:54,359 I’m critical of Soviet nostalgia 285 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,240 but it doesn’t mean I can’t be critical of capitalism too. 286 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,200 It’s just an abstract criticism. 287 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,480 I didn’t know you were looking for an academic debate. 288 00:21:04,279 --> 00:21:05,599 Is that what you want? 289 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,000 You want me to quote hard scientific data? 290 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,079 You want to read articles on homelessness in the United States, 291 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,960 mass incarceration or the lack of proper healthcare? 292 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,519 And you think these problems don’t exist elsewhere? 293 00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:19,839 There’s a difference between the United States 294 00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:22,519 and, say, Nordic countries. 295 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:25,519 You have to agree that 296 00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:27,519 Scandinavia or here, people are free, 297 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:28,839 and that’s what matters. 298 00:21:28,839 --> 00:21:29,799 Where is here? 299 00:21:30,319 --> 00:21:31,839 Are you talking about New York? 300 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,319 Or are you talking about the United States? 301 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,200 And wh-what does it mean to be free? 302 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,079 What you’re doing right now demonstrates your freedom. 303 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,279 You are listing the problems of your government, 304 00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:41,720 you’re doing it openly. 305 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,240 In Russia, you criticize the government, you would disappear. 306 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,640 You’re comparing the incomparable again. 307 00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:52,400 Whatever problems the United States has... 308 00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:55,680 ...we still need the US as a global moral power. 309 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,039 And you might not like it, but it’s true. 310 00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,079 Moral what? 311 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,799 Moral po... You sound like a Republican! 312 00:22:01,839 --> 00:22:04,240 It’s not so bad to sound like a Republican, 313 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,559 especially when it comes to foreign policy. 314 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,480 I mean, not a MAGA Trump Republican, 315 00:22:09,599 --> 00:22:10,559 that’s different. 316 00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:12,599 They screech: America First. 317 00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:14,160 They don’t care about the world. 318 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,759 They don’t care what’s happening abroad. 319 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,079 But radical progressives on the left sound exactly the same to me. 320 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,279 Their slogan isn’t America First, 321 00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:25,000 it’s America Bad. 322 00:22:25,839 --> 00:22:26,880 It’s just... 323 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,640 You, you can’t compare the two sides, 324 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,799 because there are no two sides. 325 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,799 United States has created senseless wars 326 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,599 and caused untold harm here and abroad. 327 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,400 Look at Vietnam. 328 00:22:40,599 --> 00:22:42,240 Look at the War on Terror. 329 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,480 Look at Israel. 330 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,519 Look at American expansionism and the native American genocide. 331 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,960 I mean, you can’t just brush that all aside because you wanna bomb Russia 332 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,799 or some other tyrannical country. 333 00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:54,799 Oh my God... 334 00:22:56,759 --> 00:22:58,519 Thank God you can’t vote here. 335 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,079 People like you campaigned against Bernie and then we got Trump. 336 00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:05,640 Oh... No, people like you said: Bernie or bust. 337 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:06,180 I... 338 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,079 You trashed Hillary and then you got Trump. 339 00:23:08,079 --> 00:23:09,200 I did not say that. 340 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,279 And I did vote for her in the end. 341 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,559 Even though my vote in New York didn’t really mean anything because of the way 342 00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:16,440 elections work here, 343 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,519 which is another problem with American democracy. 344 00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:24,039 Kostas, if you hate the U.S. so much, why did you come here? 345 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:25,960 Why do you stay? 346 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,279 If you hate the U.S. so much, why did you... 347 00:23:36,279 --> 00:23:38,680 I heard you the first time. 348 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,520 Well. 349 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,480 It’s not a particularly scientific question. 350 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,319 You are making me nuts. 351 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,799 You want simple answers to extremely 352 00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:55,000 nuanced and complex questions. 353 00:23:55,079 --> 00:23:56,640 Well, yet here we are. 354 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,160 Two openly queer men... 355 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,599 ...without fear of persecution. 356 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,400 It’s not bad. 357 00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:13,359 Your vegan borscht. 358 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:50,920 Thank you, sir. 359 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,039 You’re welcome. 360 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,160 Do you remember... 361 00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:39,642 ...when you burned our first dinner? 362 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,000 I remember how you burned it. 363 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,319 You were the one 364 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:47,960 cooking your mushrooms in this 365 00:25:48,039 --> 00:25:50,640 super high heat method... 366 00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:53,121 ...and then you left them and went to the bathroom. 367 00:25:53,599 --> 00:25:56,440 Yes, and I asked you to watch over them. 368 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,000 That became your version of events over time. 369 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,480 That’s not the way I remember it anyway. 370 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,720 At the most, you smiled and nodded. 371 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,440 It’s not the same thing as asking me to take over. 372 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,160 Okay, it may have been a few years ago, but 373 00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:15,880 I distinctly remember asking you to watch over the mushrooms. 374 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,519 Or something... 375 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,160 Then, I come back... 376 00:26:19,319 --> 00:26:20,519 At best, you mumbled. 377 00:26:20,519 --> 00:26:23,359 ...and I find you sitting there, reading, 378 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,519 while the pan is fully aflame. 379 00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:27,000 And then... 380 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,720 And then, 381 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,400 you took them out to the balcony, which is the right thing to do, 382 00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:35,000 and then you got embarrassed and brought them back in. 383 00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:38,920 I... It... Everyone in the building was gossiping about us. 384 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,240 And then I was about to burn the entire building down. 385 00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:44,480 Yes, I was embarrassed. 386 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,240 And then you brought them back inside, 387 00:26:46,319 --> 00:26:48,400 you were about to pour water on them. 388 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:49,920 It would’ve been a real tragedy. 389 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,279 And you stopped me. 390 00:26:51,279 --> 00:26:52,200 Thank you. 391 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,519 I didn’t know it was dangerous to pour water on an oil fire. 392 00:26:58,559 --> 00:26:59,839 I saved your life. 393 00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:01,039 Yes. 394 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,841 But you could have just watched over the mushrooms 395 00:27:03,841 --> 00:27:05,480 in the first place. 396 00:27:05,881 --> 00:27:07,039 Oh God! 397 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,200 At least you took them back out to the balcony after you tried to kill us. 398 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,119 When you took your shirt off 399 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,400 and you threw it over that pan... 400 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,559 That was like a Hollywood movie. 401 00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:27,799 You were so hot in that moment. 402 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,759 Because of the damn fire. 403 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,640 So, what’s your story? 404 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,200 I think of myself as an optimistic nomad. 405 00:27:57,559 --> 00:27:59,599 Even though I don’t travel that much. 406 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,559 I often feel like a man who lives without really having a home. 407 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,000 You don’t consider Lithuania your home? 408 00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:14,440 No, I made it my home. 409 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,359 But I don’t feel like a local. 410 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,440 Maybe a local of Vilnius... 411 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,160 So, besides philosophizing... 412 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,759 ...how have you been? 413 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:30,960 Since you left me? 414 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:31,920 Well... 415 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,799 I pursued different jobs, different lovers. 416 00:28:39,079 --> 00:28:40,519 Men, women. 417 00:28:41,319 --> 00:28:45,279 I was spending a lot of time on those liberal Russian blogs. 418 00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:49,559 There was all this interest in the new technology. 419 00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:52,680 Hope for a free, united world. 420 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,240 Optimistic, indeed. 421 00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:02,039 Then I got married. 422 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,160 We were together for 14 years. 423 00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:10,720 Morta left me for a younger Lithuanian gentleman. 424 00:29:13,119 --> 00:29:14,119 I’m sorry. 425 00:29:18,079 --> 00:29:20,440 It’s okay, it was her midlife crisis. 426 00:29:24,319 --> 00:29:25,519 I did... 427 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,839 ...find it kind of impressive. 428 00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:33,762 She took everything we’d worked for... 429 00:29:33,762 --> 00:29:36,359 ...put it behind her so quickly. 430 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,839 Hmm. Still hurt, though. 431 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,960 I think I saw you both at the book fair in 2010. 432 00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:52,160 Yeah... 433 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,640 You didn’t want to have your copy of the Rainbow Bookstore signed? 434 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,480 No, yeah... 435 00:30:02,839 --> 00:30:04,559 We didn’t have time? 436 00:30:04,599 --> 00:30:05,599 Really? 437 00:30:12,839 --> 00:30:15,000 Alright, I was afraid to see you. 438 00:30:16,759 --> 00:30:20,440 I prepared myself for that meeting for months and I just couldn’t do it. 439 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,559 Afraid of what? 440 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,279 I want you to know I was very much in love with Morta. 441 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,759 I don’t want you to think it was less real, 442 00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:43,880 you know, I’m bi, I fall in love 443 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,559 with a person, not their gender. 444 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:50,478 I’m respectful of other people’s identities, I... 445 00:30:51,559 --> 00:30:54,720 I mean, the language has changed since we were in the army, I... 446 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:55,839 But I... 447 00:30:55,839 --> 00:30:58,079 I understand bisexuality. 448 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:02,400 Cool. 449 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,519 So what were you afraid of? 450 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:08,720 I was really kind of hoping 451 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,279 you wouldn’t come back to that question. 452 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,319 Yeah, I noticed. 453 00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:18,759 I was afraid you wouldn’t recognize me. 454 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,759 You wouldn’t want to talk to me, talk to my wife. 455 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,359 I was afraid of how it would make me feel. 456 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,000 What was her story? 457 00:31:45,119 --> 00:31:46,799 Oh, she was a composer. 458 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,000 Ah... 459 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,720 So you clearly have a thing for creative types. 460 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,720 It’s important to me that you know, 461 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,720 that what you and I had was real. 462 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,079 I wouldn’t want you to think it was... 463 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:09,519 I don’t know, 464 00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:12,079 I grew out of it, marrying a woman. 465 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,200 I’m grateful that you made the choice to come and join me after our service. 466 00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:35,079 Play something by your wife for me. 467 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:37,240 My ex-wife. 468 00:33:35,490 --> 00:33:37,490 Oh! 469 00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:23,159 I’m sorry. 470 00:35:26,441 --> 00:35:29,320 I wasn’t looking for a one-night stand. 471 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:32,800 Again, 472 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:33,800 I’m sorry. 473 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,519 Just leave the damn dishes. 474 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,480 That’s not enough to say you’re sorry, Kostas. 475 00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:54,719 I thought you said everything was good. 476 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:56,239 Yeah. 477 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,320 I lied. 478 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,760 Your book is meant to show that you’re not responsible for leaving me behind, 479 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,039 but that’s not true. 480 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,000 What do you want me to say? 481 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,559 It was a different time. 482 00:36:19,639 --> 00:36:20,480 I... 483 00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:23,159 I didn’t have a choice. 484 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:31,079 When the borders opened, how could I refuse the opportunity to study in New York? 485 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,960 That was my dream come true. 486 00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:40,719 My professors would have thought I was an idiot if I refused. 487 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,239 That’s just it, Kostas. 488 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:43,920 In your book, you portray me 489 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,440 as someone who wanted you to stay in Lithuania. 490 00:36:46,559 --> 00:36:47,559 I didn’t. 491 00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:49,639 I never asked you to stay. 492 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,599 I’d have followed you here 493 00:36:52,599 --> 00:36:54,639 or anywhere else. 494 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,639 I-I couldn’t just marry you and get you a visa. 495 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,039 There just was no legal basis to take you with me. 496 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,760 There’s always a workaround. 497 00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:13,920 You know, the cruelest part of your book is... 498 00:37:17,599 --> 00:37:20,400 ...when you say you’re going to find a way to bring me here, 499 00:37:20,519 --> 00:37:23,039 and then you write that, in saying that, 500 00:37:23,039 --> 00:37:24,800 you knew it was already over between us. 501 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,320 It’s fiction, Dima. 502 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,800 Did you think it was already over between us when you said you’d find a way to bring me here? 503 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,360 Is that what you were thinking in our last weeks together, 504 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,000 preparing for your trip? 505 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,159 I think in the back of my mind, I was preparing 506 00:37:44,159 --> 00:37:46,000 for my new life. 507 00:37:49,039 --> 00:37:52,440 I wanted to leave Lithuania behind. 508 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,639 The way you left Russia. 509 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,800 I didn’t think it was possible to take you with me. 510 00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:06,920 Christ, you were leaving for the free world. 511 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,679 It had to be a solution, I could have gotten a job. 512 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,000 I could have gotten asylum. 513 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,519 Homosexuality was still criminalized in Lithuania until 1993. 514 00:38:17,519 --> 00:38:19,199 You weren’t in danger. 515 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,320 All I’m saying is you could have tried, 516 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:22,760 I could have tried. 517 00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:25,079 You didn’t let me. 518 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,400 You left me behind, you cut me off! 519 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:28,280 I... I... 520 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,760 You had a choice! 521 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,000 Dima. 522 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:58,480 Did you go far? 523 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,000 I was here. 524 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,239 Did you miss me just now or for the last 30 years? 525 00:42:14,599 --> 00:42:16,000 Just spend the night here. 526 00:42:16,599 --> 00:42:19,360 I told you, I have to get to the airport early in the morning. 527 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,119 You want to be there at, like, ten? 528 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:23,239 Like nine. 529 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,159 Okay, here’s my proposal. 530 00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:29,360 Let’s have a conversation. 531 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,199 About everything. 532 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,400 And everything is forgiven, just... 533 00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:36,039 ...for one night. 534 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:41,920 Okay. 535 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,440 Oh... I changed my mind. 536 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,719 You can help me with the dishes. 537 00:43:30,519 --> 00:43:32,360 Oh, no, I’m good. 538 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:34,920 We’re not drinking anymore? 539 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,519 You can drink if you want to, I’m good. 540 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,039 Are you sure? 541 00:43:39,039 --> 00:43:41,920 Yes, and please stop pressuring me. 542 00:43:43,079 --> 00:43:44,280 You’ve changed. 543 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,440 So, our conversation? 544 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,559 Our conversation just got sober. 545 00:44:39,079 --> 00:44:40,679 Should we set rules? 546 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:42,800 No. 547 00:44:43,679 --> 00:44:44,679 No rules. 548 00:44:45,679 --> 00:44:47,960 Well, maybe: one rule. 549 00:44:48,519 --> 00:44:50,440 No sarcasm allowed. 550 00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:55,039 I think we’re setting ourselves up for failure. 551 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,159 I really liked what you... 552 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:07,239 ...said about our careers not defining us. 553 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:13,159 Your what’s your story? question is actually a great one. 554 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:15,760 Thank you. 555 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,679 And in the back of my mind, I started thinking... 556 00:45:21,519 --> 00:45:23,039 What does define us? 557 00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:25,119 Or what does define me? 558 00:45:26,519 --> 00:45:28,719 Well, what defines you? 559 00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:38,880 I think as trivial as it sounds, I’m... 560 00:45:42,079 --> 00:45:43,559 I’m defined... 561 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,918 ...by being a Lithuanian in New York. 562 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,519 I mean, even though I have an American passport, 563 00:45:51,519 --> 00:45:53,519 I still feel like an outsider. 564 00:45:54,159 --> 00:45:57,840 Kostas, United States is a country of immigrants, 565 00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,559 especially New York. 566 00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:02,119 Why would you feel like an outsider? 567 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,400 A country of immigrants, but with a lot of additional terms. 568 00:46:07,159 --> 00:46:10,440 It all depends on how well assimilated you are... 569 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,960 What generation immigrant you are, what, 570 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,519 what the color of your skin is. 571 00:46:16,559 --> 00:46:18,360 Kostas, your skin color is white, 572 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,000 you seem really well assimilated here in New York. 573 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:23,800 Right... 574 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,800 Why would you feel like an outsider? 575 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,199 I guess I feel like an outsider for... 576 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:34,440 ...other reasons. 577 00:46:36,679 --> 00:46:38,280 As a queer person, too. 578 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,840 This is New York, the queer capital of the world. 579 00:46:43,039 --> 00:46:45,880 I don’t think San Francisco would agree with you there, but... 580 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,480 These are good observations. 581 00:46:52,119 --> 00:46:53,400 But the truth is that... 582 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,719 ...inner conflicts aren’t always entirely rational. 583 00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:03,800 I was socialized differently. 584 00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:08,639 I grew up in a very homophobic society. 585 00:47:10,159 --> 00:47:12,639 And I still carry that around with me. 586 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:15,960 And sometimes it hurts. 587 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,280 And sometimes I feel ashamed. 588 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:26,679 Why would you feel ashamed? 589 00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:46,679 So, what about you? 590 00:47:49,159 --> 00:47:55,000 Don’t you feel like an outsider as a Russian in Lithuania? 591 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:56,679 Especially now? 592 00:47:58,519 --> 00:48:01,039 Kostas, even the way you’re framing it is wrong. 593 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,880 I got my Lithuanian passport in the nineties. 594 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,679 I considered myself a Lithuanian citizen ever since. 595 00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:11,440 I’m a Lithuanian. 596 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,480 I live, work and vote in Lithuania. 597 00:48:16,079 --> 00:48:19,599 I’ve even learned the language, however flawed I am at it. 598 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:21,519 I don’t care. 599 00:48:21,599 --> 00:48:23,599 I don’t feel like an outsider. 600 00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:29,480 I feel like a part of a diverse Lithuanian society. 601 00:48:31,079 --> 00:48:32,639 That’s curious. 602 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,800 At first, you said you felt patriotic about Lithuania... 603 00:48:39,559 --> 00:48:42,800 ...and then you described yourself as a nomad, 604 00:48:43,039 --> 00:48:45,599 as if you have no home. 605 00:48:48,159 --> 00:48:52,119 And now you say you feel strongly about 606 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,440 belonging both in and to Lithuania. 607 00:48:58,679 --> 00:49:00,639 Well, let me put it this way. 608 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,280 I’m proud of living in Lithuania, 609 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,519 but I also feel like a passport doesn’t necessarily define me. 610 00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,639 I have another insight, 611 00:49:15,639 --> 00:49:16,599 if I may. 612 00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:18,119 Well, you may. 613 00:49:18,159 --> 00:49:20,840 Everything is fair in our mega chat. 614 00:49:22,431 --> 00:49:23,653 Hmm! 615 00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:26,679 I think you... 616 00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:29,639 ...have conflicting feelings. 617 00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,199 I think you’re trying to 618 00:49:35,199 --> 00:49:37,360 erase your Russian identity... 619 00:49:38,599 --> 00:49:42,320 ...to become the model Lithuanian citizen. 620 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:43,960 And I... 621 00:49:44,519 --> 00:49:47,400 I understand where that comes from, but... 622 00:49:48,599 --> 00:49:52,400 Again, who’s... Who’s watching? 623 00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:55,400 Who’s asking for that proof? 624 00:49:56,079 --> 00:49:57,039 Oh... 625 00:49:57,199 --> 00:49:58,239 That’s heavy. 626 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,761 And... 627 00:50:01,761 --> 00:50:04,079 Your insights are perhaps correct. 628 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,440 But let me ask you, 629 00:50:07,639 --> 00:50:10,920 why shouldn’t I be ashamed of Russia? 630 00:50:12,159 --> 00:50:13,920 You should be proud of your heritage. 631 00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,920 You’re from a small, unique country that’s faced a lot of suffering. 632 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,199 On the other hand, now you’re an American. 633 00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:24,360 The way you talk about the United States, 634 00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,440 you seem to take responsibility for all of its faults. 635 00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:35,740 You feel shame at all the wrongdoing being done in its name, 636 00:50:35,740 --> 00:50:37,679 in your name. 637 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,639 So why shouldn’t I be allowed to be ashamed of being Russian? 638 00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:45,719 That’s exactly the point. 639 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,239 I’m an American citizen, and... 640 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,320 You’re Lithuanian. 641 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:58,079 As citizens, we’re responsible for the United States and Lithuania. 642 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,280 You’re saying I should be proud of my Lithuanian heritage. 643 00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,639 So why can’t you have pride in your Russian background? 644 00:51:05,639 --> 00:51:07,639 Well, it’s different. 645 00:51:12,639 --> 00:51:15,119 I’m proud of living in Lithuania. 646 00:51:16,199 --> 00:51:18,559 But she’s not a terrorist country. 647 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,239 And for all her flaws, 648 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,000 she’s not an occupying power. 649 00:51:24,039 --> 00:51:25,079 Yes, but... 650 00:51:25,159 --> 00:51:28,400 If everyone from every country felt that way... 651 00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,360 ...who would be able to have pride in themselves? 652 00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:37,239 I mean, Brazil, Germany, Serbia, 653 00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:42,119 Rwanda, China, Iran, Japan... 654 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,280 Can any of them celebrate their culture 655 00:51:45,519 --> 00:51:48,840 or is that all erased by their crimes? 656 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:50,481 Well... 657 00:51:50,481 --> 00:51:53,840 I think each case should be considered separately. 658 00:51:56,199 --> 00:51:58,440 You have to understand 659 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:02,920 you’re doing Russia a disservice by being so naively overprotective. 660 00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,840 Russian culture and Russian identity cannot be separated 661 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,840 from Russian terror right now. 662 00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,199 It’s what their society clings to and supports, 663 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:21,239 seeing terror as essential to maintaining its pride. 664 00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,320 You have to set boundaries for Russia. 665 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,320 You have to take that pride away, 666 00:52:27,559 --> 00:52:30,480 until that culture learns to change. 667 00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,239 I see your point. 668 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,920 I would love to be considered a citizen of the world. 669 00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:56,760 But I don’t tell anyone that. 670 00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,079 I don’t want them to think I was naive. 671 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,440 We were both born in the Soviet Union. 672 00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,360 A country that doesn’t exist anymore. 673 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:08,320 Hmm. 674 00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,360 I see that a little differently. 675 00:53:13,039 --> 00:53:15,199 I was born in Soviet Russia. 676 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,239 You were born in Lithuania, 677 00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,480 occupied by Soviet Russia. 678 00:53:22,119 --> 00:53:23,800 Okay, another example. 679 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,119 Borscht again, cold borscht. 680 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,480 We Lithuanians love to claim that bright pink soup as our own. 681 00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,920 We’re proud that it originated in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. 682 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:42,639 But the Grand Duchy of Lithuania included modern day Belarus and beyond. 683 00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,519 So, geography is not always as stable as it may seem. 684 00:53:48,079 --> 00:53:50,079 And if that’s the case, 685 00:53:50,079 --> 00:53:51,800 can it ever define us? 686 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,719 I don’t know, Kostas, I’m the dreamer here. 687 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:00,639 I’d love to say it doesn’t, but all those 688 00:54:00,639 --> 00:54:04,559 shifts and changes you’re talking about, they leave a mark. 689 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:10,559 Leave a mark... 690 00:54:11,679 --> 00:54:12,679 Yes. 691 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:23,719 Many people are defined by their religion. 692 00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:28,679 Are you still an atheist? 693 00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:33,760 Oh... Kostas, we have one shot at this beautiful life, 694 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:35,880 and that’s what makes it so beautiful. 695 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,920 I guess that answers my question. 696 00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:40,000 You still are. 697 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:40,599 Yeah. 698 00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:41,400 For fuck’s sake, 699 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:42,679 I hope you are, too. 700 00:54:43,119 --> 00:54:44,440 Not as hardcore as you, 701 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,000 I never was. 702 00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,840 I respect religious freedom. 703 00:54:50,679 --> 00:54:52,760 And I wish I was a believer. 704 00:54:53,159 --> 00:54:54,199 I’m just not. 705 00:54:55,039 --> 00:54:56,960 I wasn’t brought up that way. 706 00:54:58,039 --> 00:55:01,360 But if there’s an afterlife, I am not gonna complain. 707 00:55:03,199 --> 00:55:08,719 I tell you what - if I meet the Almighty after I die, I won’t debate his existence either. 708 00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:13,039 But that’s not going to happen, 709 00:55:13,039 --> 00:55:14,719 and in the meantime, 710 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,679 the religious propaganda machine makes everybody miserable. 711 00:55:19,079 --> 00:55:21,760 Alright, that’s a problematic approach. 712 00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:23,639 That’s a sort of... 713 00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,280 ...intellectual colonialism. 714 00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,599 A very Western-centric point of view. 715 00:55:30,599 --> 00:55:32,880 There’s nothing wrong with being Western. 716 00:55:33,599 --> 00:55:37,719 You have to understand that the majority of the world is religious. 717 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:39,840 Something like 85%. 718 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:41,119 And you have to understand 719 00:55:41,119 --> 00:55:44,679 that the majority of people in the world are idiots. 720 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,538 You call yourself a liberal, 721 00:55:48,538 --> 00:55:51,679 but you really just want everyone to think the same way that you do. 722 00:55:59,679 --> 00:56:01,480 You ever tried any therapy? 723 00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,639 I did about six years in my forties. 724 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:06,679 Changed my life. 725 00:56:13,159 --> 00:56:14,760 No, I haven’t. 726 00:56:16,119 --> 00:56:17,320 That’s too bad. 727 00:56:18,199 --> 00:56:19,920 I think therapy should be mandatory 728 00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,039 for all traumatized people like us. 729 00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:23,599 Thank you. 730 00:56:25,679 --> 00:56:26,480 Strange, though. 731 00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,960 Why didn’t you choose to go to therapy? 732 00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:32,519 That is an interesting question. 733 00:56:32,519 --> 00:56:36,280 Like, I choose not to do everything that I don’t do. 734 00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,159 I wake up in the morning and I choose... 735 00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:42,519 ...not to go to Canada. 736 00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,039 I choose not to fall in love. 737 00:56:46,599 --> 00:56:48,920 I choose not to go to therapy. 738 00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,119 C’mon Kostas, everybody here goes to therapy. 739 00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,119 What if I don’t believe in therapy? 740 00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,599 You don’t have to believe in it, it’s science. 741 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,519 Yeah, but it’s based on personal change. 742 00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,239 It doesn’t take into account social conditions as much. 743 00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,039 I’m sure there’s plenty of therapists that... 744 00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:08,840 ...focus on it. 745 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,679 And what’s wrong with personal change? 746 00:57:10,679 --> 00:57:11,880 It’s like the whole idea. 747 00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,559 It’s just problematic. 748 00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:19,760 From Freudian sexism to the pure homophobia of forcing gay people into conversion therapy. 749 00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:21,920 There you go again, talking about the past. 750 00:57:22,159 --> 00:57:23,599 What past? 751 00:57:24,559 --> 00:57:26,840 Conversion therapy is still legal in many countries 752 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,639 and several states in the United States. 753 00:57:29,679 --> 00:57:32,360 Well, I didn’t know that about the U.S., 754 00:57:32,639 --> 00:57:34,519 but I’m sure mainstream 755 00:57:34,519 --> 00:57:36,239 health organizations don’t 756 00:57:36,639 --> 00:57:38,280 endorse conversion therapy. 757 00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,800 It’s not even endorsed in Lithuania. 758 00:57:42,199 --> 00:57:45,840 You are faster to blame therapy for homophobia, 759 00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:47,519 and you forgive the Catholic Church. 760 00:57:49,239 --> 00:57:52,039 No, I am critical of the Catholic Church. 761 00:57:52,159 --> 00:57:56,159 I just said I respect everyone’s personal religious freedom. 762 00:57:56,559 --> 00:57:59,360 You just criticize everything that’s American and Western. 763 00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,400 What’s wrong with being self-critical? 764 00:58:01,679 --> 00:58:03,039 What do you want me to do? 765 00:58:03,039 --> 00:58:07,199 Run out into the street and yell: I’m proud to be an American! 766 00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:08,719 I want you to go to therapy. 767 00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,840 Well unfortunately, that’s my choice. 768 00:58:15,079 --> 00:58:17,599 Yeah. Your choice. 769 00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,480 I feel like we were getting more vulnerable. 770 00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,440 And we took a wrong turn somewhere. 771 00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,599 Well, because you won’t stop talking about religion. 772 00:58:36,039 --> 00:58:40,719 And you wanted to replace the confessional booth with the therapist couch. 773 00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,440 At least confessions are still free. 774 00:58:46,045 --> 00:58:47,961 Well. 775 00:58:47,961 --> 00:58:51,639 As my therapist used to say: let’s move on. 776 00:58:52,159 --> 00:58:54,800 Let’s talk about something more personal. 777 00:59:03,519 --> 00:59:05,079 Did you ever want to have children? 778 00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:06,880 Oof. 779 00:59:07,239 --> 00:59:08,920 It’s a loaded question. 780 00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:14,480 I feel like everybody wants children on a instinctual level. 781 00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:15,639 But? 782 00:59:15,639 --> 00:59:17,881 Well... 783 00:59:17,881 --> 00:59:19,480 I never felt ready. 784 00:59:22,519 --> 00:59:25,199 You know, Morta didn’t want children either. 785 00:59:25,559 --> 00:59:26,599 I liked that. 786 00:59:28,239 --> 00:59:29,840 It felt queerer that way. 787 00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:32,679 And we both liked that. 788 00:59:32,679 --> 00:59:33,559 Why? 789 00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,119 I mean, she knew about your bisexuality? 790 00:59:36,559 --> 00:59:37,559 Of course. 791 00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,159 We shared a life together. 792 00:59:41,719 --> 00:59:43,480 Wait, so you had an open marriage? 793 00:59:47,719 --> 00:59:51,199 That is offensive, Kostas! 794 00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,360 What? No, a lot of people here are 795 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,159 in open marriages or relationships. 796 00:59:55,159 --> 00:59:58,920 Yeah, but you assumed that we were in an open marriage 797 00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,719 because I was open about my bisexuality. 798 01:00:02,719 --> 01:00:05,880 You’re equating bisexuality with promiscuity. 799 01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,280 Okay, you’re right. 800 01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:14,719 I’m sorry. 801 01:00:15,599 --> 01:00:16,599 That’s okay. 802 01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,559 I don’t think polyamory would work for me. 803 01:00:24,199 --> 01:00:25,960 When was the last time you were in 804 01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:27,199 a long-term relationship? 805 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,239 Oh, it’s been a while. 806 01:00:33,119 --> 01:00:36,079 There was a visiting professor a few years ago. 807 01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,400 But he was visiting. 808 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:42,320 And then he left. 809 01:00:44,519 --> 01:00:47,440 I always choose the impossible. 810 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:52,320 Hmm. 811 01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:55,800 How about you - have you ever want kids? 812 01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:57,400 No. 813 01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,199 I would have been a terrible parent. 814 01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:06,000 And I’m not really into the whole homonormative family thing. 815 01:01:07,639 --> 01:01:10,840 What’s wrong with two people just wanting to start a family together? 816 01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:13,360 Well, you didn’t do it yourself. 817 01:01:14,119 --> 01:01:16,079 Well, yeah, but, I mean, 818 01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:17,679 it was for different reasons. 819 01:01:17,679 --> 01:01:20,760 So, you not only want people to think the same way you do, 820 01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,000 you want them to do it for the same reasons. 821 01:01:23,041 --> 01:01:25,041 Ah...! 822 01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,280 All right, let’s turn this around. 823 01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:36,559 What about your parents? 824 01:01:38,159 --> 01:01:39,159 No news. 825 01:01:39,239 --> 01:01:40,639 You’re still ignoring them? 826 01:01:41,199 --> 01:01:44,079 Ignoring sounds like an active thing. 827 01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:46,559 I simply cut them off when I left Russia. 828 01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,280 I thought you might have learned to forgive them in therapy? 829 01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,079 In therapy I learned not to regret my decision - 830 01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,599 and how badly they fucked me up, and 831 01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:58,440 what awful people they are. 832 01:01:59,039 --> 01:02:01,920 Don’t you think it was a different time, 833 01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,119 and a different society? 834 01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,280 I mean, no one knew how to raise children back then and... 835 01:02:08,599 --> 01:02:11,760 ...physical punishment was the norm in Soviet Union. 836 01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:15,239 You need to be a little sensitive here. 837 01:02:15,239 --> 01:02:17,840 My parents were abusive. 838 01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,719 And there’s never any excuse for that. 839 01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:23,480 I understand. 840 01:02:26,159 --> 01:02:30,000 I wish I had been as tough with my own parents sometimes. 841 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:33,480 They died a few years ago. 842 01:02:33,481 --> 01:02:35,159 Oh... 843 01:02:35,159 --> 01:02:36,679 I’m sorry for your loss. 844 01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:37,960 Thanks. 845 01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,480 They lived long lives. 846 01:02:43,159 --> 01:02:45,599 Seems silly to be sad about it. 847 01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:48,599 But I was. 848 01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:51,079 And I am. 849 01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:53,920 Why do you say that you needed to be harder on them? 850 01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,880 You never mentioned them being abusive, were they? 851 01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:58,760 No, not physically. 852 01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,000 But they expected a lot from me. 853 01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:07,440 They instilled a perfectionism that’s... 854 01:03:09,039 --> 01:03:10,079 That’s hard to get rid of. 855 01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:14,559 Sorry about that. 856 01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:19,840 Well, they’re dead now. 857 01:04:12,519 --> 01:04:14,639 War has me thinking about dying. 858 01:04:18,159 --> 01:04:20,840 It's scary to think how short our lives are. 859 01:04:23,519 --> 01:04:26,039 I see my death just approaching. 860 01:04:26,039 --> 01:04:27,159 And I’m... 861 01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,239 Not looking forward to it. 862 01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:36,119 That’s the downside to loving life a little too much. 863 01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,000 Neither one of us has children. 864 01:04:39,679 --> 01:04:41,880 You have your books, you’ll leave them behind. 865 01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:43,719 I have nothing. 866 01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:50,920 Software engineer’s work is designed to be replaced. Upgraded. 867 01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,920 You're as much a part of my books as I am. 868 01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:02,800 Thank you, Kostas. 869 01:05:06,679 --> 01:05:09,800 If you really want to know me, 870 01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:11,480 you should read my books. 871 01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,079 Not the ones I’ve written, 872 01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:15,800 but the ones I’ve read. 873 01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:48,519 Like this one? 874 01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:50,800 Yes. 875 01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:58,199 Or Baldwin, Halberstam, Foucault, Sedgwick, 876 01:05:58,199 --> 01:06:02,800 Cunningham, Butler, Isherwood, Delany. 877 01:06:04,159 --> 01:06:06,960 I have to admit, I don’t know any of those authors. 878 01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,480 You weren’t intrigued when you read the Rainbow Bookstore? 879 01:06:10,599 --> 01:06:12,920 Oh, I read it as your own personal account. 880 01:06:15,079 --> 01:06:18,840 I didn’t think you could read that book without understanding the references. 881 01:06:19,039 --> 01:06:20,320 That’s all it was - references? 882 01:06:21,359 --> 01:06:22,900 Nothing personal? 883 01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:24,920 Writing is personal. 884 01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:26,760 I mean, many of these writers 885 01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:28,960 walked the same streets in New York. 886 01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,000 I met some of them when they gave guest lectures here. 887 01:06:34,239 --> 01:06:37,679 They describe the lives they led, I assume. 888 01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:41,239 I always pictured you having 889 01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,880 a wild life in New York. 890 01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:46,639 Sorry to disappoint you, Dima. 891 01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,119 It’s a book about a librarian. 892 01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:56,000 I am a camera with its shutter open, 893 01:06:56,000 --> 01:07:00,599 quite passive, recording, not thinking. 894 01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:04,039 I think I read it as a 895 01:07:04,039 --> 01:07:07,280 book about a choice between living and dying. 896 01:07:09,239 --> 01:07:10,119 How so? 897 01:07:10,719 --> 01:07:14,239 Well, Kyle uses his inheritance 898 01:07:14,239 --> 01:07:16,000 to start a queer bookstore. 899 01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,400 It’s because he’s afraid of dying without leaving something behind. 900 01:07:20,039 --> 01:07:21,159 Sure. 901 01:07:21,599 --> 01:07:23,519 Then along comes the handsome Diego and... 902 01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,559 ...forces Kyle to fall back in love with life, 903 01:07:29,559 --> 01:07:31,320 and they hit the road happily ever after. 904 01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:35,400 But I saw it as a choice between legacy and love. 905 01:07:40,159 --> 01:07:41,960 What are you reading these days? 906 01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,760 Well, mostly sci-fi. 907 01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:48,840 A lot of Ukrainian literature. 908 01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:54,480 Did you start before Russia invaded Ukraine or after? 909 01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:57,320 Hmm... 910 01:08:12,079 --> 01:08:13,519 This is... 911 01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:16,319 Canceled. 912 01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:20,119 Canceled. 913 01:08:23,159 --> 01:08:24,239 Canceled. 914 01:08:24,399 --> 01:08:25,319 Why? 915 01:08:26,119 --> 01:08:27,439 Because they’re Russian? 916 01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:29,520 Because they’re chauvinists. 917 01:08:31,159 --> 01:08:33,119 We can come back to them later. 918 01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:35,840 When? 919 01:08:43,239 --> 01:08:46,439 When Russia, as we know it, ceases to exist. 920 01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:49,800 When all the different countries 921 01:08:50,159 --> 01:08:51,760 currently colonized by Russia 922 01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,359 become independent and free. 923 01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:58,119 What about Tolstoy? 924 01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:01,720 I guess he can stick around for now. 925 01:09:03,199 --> 01:09:04,760 With a lot of footnotes. 926 01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:09,319 You are really reworking my curriculum right now. 927 01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:12,039 You should teach Faggots instead. 928 01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:15,520 That would be a different department. 929 01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:18,119 Anyway. 930 01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:20,359 I don’t see how a reading list 931 01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:22,199 can say all that much about someone. 932 01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,279 Well, at this point, Dima, I give up. 933 01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:28,119 I mean, we have 934 01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:30,359 talked about practically everything. 935 01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:31,520 We talked about... 936 01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,199 ...politics and immigration, 937 01:09:35,399 --> 01:09:37,279 we talked about our nationalities, 938 01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:38,560 we talked about 939 01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,119 our families, talked about religion 940 01:09:42,359 --> 01:09:45,520 and sex, and our work. 941 01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:48,319 Our relationship status... 942 01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:51,359 What else is there to know? 943 01:09:51,359 --> 01:09:53,279 All that stuff doesn’t really define someone. 944 01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,560 You should know that as a writer. 945 01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:58,560 So, what does define you? 946 01:10:03,239 --> 01:10:04,600 Choices. 947 01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:09,880 My choices, Kostas. 948 01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:18,199 The choice to make love to you in the army, even though it was dangerous. 949 01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:22,279 Choice to come to you in Lithuania. 950 01:10:24,119 --> 01:10:27,319 Choice to leave all my friends and family behind, 951 01:10:27,319 --> 01:10:30,359 my choice to read your book, 952 01:10:30,359 --> 01:10:32,359 come and visit you in New York. 953 01:10:36,119 --> 01:10:39,239 Sometimes life just happens, Kostas. 954 01:10:43,119 --> 01:10:47,640 Complicated situations, difficult dilemmas. 955 01:10:49,359 --> 01:10:54,560 The choices we make in those situations define our character. 956 01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:57,880 Don’t say anything cynical. 957 01:10:58,079 --> 01:10:59,800 I wasn’t going to. 958 01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:03,880 I’m enjoying this conversation. 959 01:11:05,199 --> 01:11:08,079 And I appreciate your perspective. 960 01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:11,479 I still think it’s optimistic... 961 01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:13,520 I said I was an optimist. 962 01:11:16,279 --> 01:11:19,479 I mean, we are defined by the family that we grew up in. 963 01:11:20,239 --> 01:11:22,960 The religion that we learned as a child. 964 01:11:23,119 --> 01:11:26,479 We are defined by the education that we were able to receive. 965 01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:30,199 We are defined by the mental health of the people that surrounded us. 966 01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:35,560 We are defined by whether we grew up in poverty or luxury, or something in between. 967 01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:41,159 Kostas, you’re a middle-class writer living a comfortable life. 968 01:11:42,159 --> 01:11:44,560 Your first book was an international success. 969 01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,800 You still enjoy a loyal fan base in your home country. 970 01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:51,159 You have the privileges you’re describing here. 971 01:11:51,159 --> 01:11:54,439 You spent half of your adult life married to a woman. 972 01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:56,800 No one knew anything about your sexuality. 973 01:11:57,199 --> 01:11:58,479 Are you... 974 01:11:59,119 --> 01:12:02,119 ...complaining that I didn’t experience 975 01:12:02,119 --> 01:12:04,119 as much homophobia as you did? 976 01:12:04,159 --> 01:12:06,640 Do you know how much backlash I got from my writing 977 01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:07,840 from Lithuania? 978 01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:09,760 How many threatening emails? 979 01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:10,840 Emails... 980 01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,880 Kostas, compare the families we grew up in. 981 01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,520 The countries we grew up in, the cities in which we now live. 982 01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,640 No one knew that you were bisexual, 983 01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:24,680 still nobody knows! 984 01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:26,279 My friends know! 985 01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:28,520 And I had my challenges. 986 01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:30,880 I fought for what I wanted and I got it. 987 01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,479 And that’s how you wrote your first book, too. 988 01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:36,520 Now, your second books are all about complaining. 989 01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:39,000 Look what it got you. 990 01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:43,720 Released in Lithuania only, no translations. 991 01:12:44,039 --> 01:12:46,439 Kostas, you got cynical. 992 01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:47,920 You fought for yourself, yes, 993 01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,279 but did you fight for democracy in Russia? 994 01:12:50,319 --> 01:12:52,560 Or human rights in Lithuania? 995 01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:55,399 You don’t care about society. 996 01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:56,720 You only care about yourself. 997 01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,359 So, stop preaching your enlightenment to everyone. 998 01:13:02,119 --> 01:13:02,619 I see. 999 01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:06,079 Go back to Russia if you are so brave and change things there. 1000 01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:09,680 Show how everything is possible by setting an example. 1001 01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:16,800 I’m going to go to the bathroom and then I think I need to leave. 1002 01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:21,760 You know, off to Russia. 1003 01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:24,720 To start a fucking revolution. 1004 01:13:26,199 --> 01:13:27,439 You don’t need to leave. 1005 01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:44,560 You know, as much time as we’ve spoken here today, 1006 01:13:45,079 --> 01:13:47,439 I’ve still left two things unsaid. 1007 01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:50,560 I was waiting for the right time, 1008 01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:52,640 but I guess it doesn’t matter now. 1009 01:13:57,079 --> 01:13:59,520 I never had a job interview here. 1010 01:14:00,039 --> 01:14:01,479 I came to see you. 1011 01:14:02,159 --> 01:14:04,439 I decided to after I read your new book. 1012 01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:08,319 I thought that since you decided to write it, 1013 01:14:08,319 --> 01:14:11,398 as much as I hated the way you portrayed us, 1014 01:14:11,398 --> 01:14:13,920 you might still have feelings for me. 1015 01:14:15,399 --> 01:14:16,760 I was wrong. 1016 01:14:17,079 --> 01:14:17,840 I... 1017 01:14:18,159 --> 01:14:20,239 Please, don’t say anything now. 1018 01:14:22,079 --> 01:14:23,640 The second is... 1019 01:14:25,239 --> 01:14:26,800 ...at the funeral, 1020 01:14:29,039 --> 01:14:31,359 Tomas’s mother showed me his letters. 1021 01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,359 Not to keep, just to photograph. 1022 01:14:36,359 --> 01:14:39,872 I’ll, of course, forward all of them to you, but 1023 01:14:39,872 --> 01:14:43,517 but I wanted you to see this one now. 1024 01:15:13,079 --> 01:15:15,520 I decided to cut my service short. 1025 01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:18,319 Don’t worry about it. 1026 01:15:23,199 --> 01:15:24,479 I felt healthy before, 1027 01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:26,239 but not anymore. 1028 01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:29,840 I’m in the hospital now, 1029 01:15:30,159 --> 01:15:32,279 the neurological section. 1030 01:15:35,279 --> 01:15:37,520 I miss Kostas and Dima, 1031 01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:39,800 they’re my best friends here. 1032 01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,600 I’m jealous over how much they love each other. 1033 01:15:48,359 --> 01:15:51,920 Mom, Dad, I forbid you to worry about me. 1034 01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,319 Yours, Tomas the madcap. 1035 01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:41,800 No one would say that about a friendship between two men these days. 1036 01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:44,479 It would sound queer. 1037 01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:46,079 It was queer. 1038 01:16:47,039 --> 01:16:48,199 Well yeah, but... 1039 01:16:50,039 --> 01:16:51,319 He didn’t know that. 1040 01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:54,199 Perhaps. 1041 01:16:58,399 --> 01:17:00,479 I blame myself for not... 1042 01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:03,680 ...helping Tomas enough. 1043 01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:07,319 We could have fought for him. 1044 01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:10,640 No... We couldn’t. 1045 01:17:12,319 --> 01:17:14,800 It was really nice talking to you, Kostas. 1046 01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:17,279 Dima, that’s not right. 1047 01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:22,000 I need to apologize to you. 1048 01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:23,760 It’s... 1049 01:17:25,279 --> 01:17:26,600 Very late. 1050 01:17:27,359 --> 01:17:28,640 Past midnight. 1051 01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:31,119 Too late for apologies. 1052 01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:35,319 No, not too late yet. 1053 01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:37,560 Stay. 1054 01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:41,680 I’ll write you a letter. 1055 01:17:44,310 --> 01:17:46,310 Hmm. 1056 01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:12,760 Dear Dima, 1057 01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:15,760 I loved you from the first time we met. 1058 01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:18,319 Serving in Stavropol, 1059 01:18:18,359 --> 01:18:21,199 we shared a friendship and a camaraderie. 1060 01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:23,079 And we shared more. 1061 01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:26,479 A passion that was secret, 1062 01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:28,359 yet felt so innocent. 1063 01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:32,000 I knew it was forbidden, 1064 01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:33,880 even dangerous. 1065 01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:36,560 And yet it didn’t feel like that. 1066 01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:39,520 It felt so light, 1067 01:18:41,119 --> 01:18:42,840 so lighthearted. 1068 01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,359 Then everything went dark when Tomas killed himself. 1069 01:18:51,159 --> 01:18:53,520 His death brought us back to reality, 1070 01:18:54,119 --> 01:18:57,239 grounded us and reminded us of the regime we lived under. 1071 01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:01,880 It was dark. Difficult and dark. 1072 01:19:06,039 --> 01:19:07,960 And yet it bonded us further. 1073 01:19:09,159 --> 01:19:12,239 Beyond our initial passion, we bonded as friends. 1074 01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:15,680 We bonded as family, sharing a painful loss together. 1075 01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:22,520 And when you made the decision to join me and move to Lithuania, 1076 01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:25,560 I knew it was the right decision. 1077 01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:31,119 I’m grateful that you saw it that way. 1078 01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:34,279 Grateful that you found the courage not to look back, 1079 01:19:35,159 --> 01:19:38,880 to make a life together in a country new and foreign to you. 1080 01:19:41,199 --> 01:19:43,520 I was inspired by your bravery. 1081 01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:47,319 Our love was like the fresh air of freedom. 1082 01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:51,279 A promise of freedom yet to come. 1083 01:19:56,359 --> 01:19:58,760 Dima, 1084 01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:02,239 I’m sorry for all the hurt I caused you through my actions. 1085 01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:06,239 I apologize. 1086 01:20:08,239 --> 01:20:09,680 I did abandon you. 1087 01:20:11,239 --> 01:20:13,439 And I did lie to you in Lithuania. 1088 01:20:14,119 --> 01:20:16,239 I already knew I would leave you. 1089 01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:19,920 It was terrible. 1090 01:20:22,239 --> 01:20:24,600 I am so sorry about what I’ve done. 1091 01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:27,479 There is no excuse. 1092 01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:31,560 No political, social or historical circumstances 1093 01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:35,479 in the whole world can excuse the horrible things I did to you. 1094 01:20:37,159 --> 01:20:39,079 I won the lottery 1095 01:20:39,379 --> 01:20:41,660 and I threw away the winning ticket. 1096 01:20:45,119 --> 01:20:48,479 You’ve got to give me another chance, Dima, 1097 01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:50,880 because I still love you, 1098 01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:53,800 and I will never leave you again. 1099 01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:58,960 Stay just a little after midnight. 1100 01:21:01,359 --> 01:21:04,701 Stay for another 30 years 1101 01:21:05,201 --> 01:21:07,179 or until the day we die. 1102 01:21:34,980 --> 01:21:37,000 You’re a good writer. 1103 01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:35,560 I missed my flight. 80554

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