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1
00:00:41,569 --> 00:00:42,759
Kostas?
2
00:00:43,759 --> 00:00:44,679
Hi.
3
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Hi.
4
00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:46,840
Sorry, I got a coffee.
5
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:48,119
No worries.
6
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:12,480
So...
7
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What language shall we speak?
8
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I’ve learned Lithuanian.
9
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I’ve really improved at it.
10
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I can still speak Russian.
11
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No way.
12
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Why?
13
00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,200
It’s just too heavy.
14
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What, for political reasons?
15
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It’s just not politics, it’s...
16
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It’s more than that.
17
00:01:33,359 --> 00:01:35,219
I’m sorry, Kostas - no
Russian for me right now.
18
00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,480
So you’re boycotting
your own language, wow...
19
00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,760
It’s not my language.
20
00:01:42,599 --> 00:01:43,599
Fine.
21
00:01:45,719 --> 00:01:48,280
Let’s continue speaking
our lingua franca.
22
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:56,799
How was your interview?
23
00:01:58,319 --> 00:01:58,840
Uh...
24
00:01:58,959 --> 00:02:00,120
They’ll call me.
25
00:02:00,959 --> 00:02:02,959
It was for an engineering job?
26
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:04,840
Yeah...
27
00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,879
I work in an
international IT firm.
28
00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:09,879
It’s out of Vilnius.
29
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:11,759
I mentioned it in an email.
30
00:02:13,759 --> 00:02:14,919
Oh, right. Yeah.
31
00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:16,000
Um...
32
00:02:17,439 --> 00:02:18,199
I’m...
33
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:21,960
I’m glad you had
this opportunity.
34
00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,960
I mean, I don’t know anything
about the IT world, but...
35
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,719
You can sign it for me?
36
00:02:43,759 --> 00:02:45,439
So you did read it...
37
00:03:23,319 --> 00:03:24,759
Thank you, Kostas.
38
00:03:34,479 --> 00:03:36,000
So, how have you been?
39
00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:37,199
Good.
40
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,500
I am teaching culture in the Russian and Slavics
department at the City University.
41
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,400
So, doing what I hate with
people who don’t care...
42
00:03:47,639 --> 00:03:49,800
Are you gonna change
that name anytime soon?
43
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:52,520
What does that even mean?
44
00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,400
They lump these countries together
and they just talk about Russian culture.
45
00:03:56,479 --> 00:03:57,879
They don’t even question it.
46
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,400
Lithuania has
made you patriotic.
47
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,280
I am patriotic about Lithuania,
48
00:04:02,319 --> 00:04:04,800
and there’s no need
to be insensitive.
49
00:04:05,719 --> 00:04:08,960
Well, the name is the least
of the department’s problems.
50
00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,360
For one thing,
I’m not paid enough.
51
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,599
I should have gone into political
science or history, not culture.
52
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,399
You know you’re
living the dream, right?
53
00:04:21,319 --> 00:04:22,319
I mean...
54
00:04:22,959 --> 00:04:25,600
Successful European
writer based in New York.
55
00:04:25,639 --> 00:04:27,199
Oh, Dima, wow...
56
00:04:27,199 --> 00:04:27,800
You’re just...
57
00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,040
You’re living the dream.
58
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:30,439
You have a lot of nerve...
59
00:04:30,439 --> 00:04:31,959
You really have to
appreciate it.
60
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:34,360
Can I have that book back?
61
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,399
- No, I want to change the note.
- Just take a deep breath...
62
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:37,319
No!
63
00:04:37,319 --> 00:04:38,439
I want to change the note.
64
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:38,980
No, no, no...
65
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,040
You... You know what?
66
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,680
You should try meditation,
67
00:04:41,879 --> 00:04:43,439
you’re clearly distraught.
68
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:45,680
Fuck you.
69
00:04:49,399 --> 00:04:50,399
I know.
70
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:52,920
I hate it too.
71
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,319
You’re trying to sit still...
72
00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,240
Intrusive thoughts...
73
00:04:58,319 --> 00:05:00,000
My head’s gonna explode.
74
00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:01,920
Yeah.
75
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,240
You haven’t changed much.
76
00:05:10,439 --> 00:05:12,279
Oh, I’ve grown older.
77
00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,279
You’re older but you’re
still immature.
78
00:05:15,399 --> 00:05:19,160
The arrogance you have
considering yourself the mature one.
79
00:05:20,199 --> 00:05:21,920
Oh, we’re not old old yet.
80
00:05:23,519 --> 00:05:25,399
We’re gonna be young-old soon.
81
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,279
Barely through our youth.
82
00:05:30,439 --> 00:05:32,120
Well, we’ve been around.
83
00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:39,773
Listen.
84
00:05:40,456 --> 00:05:42,000
Thanks for reaching out.
85
00:05:43,959 --> 00:05:47,439
It’s really lovely to see you...
86
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,399
After all these years.
87
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,639
I’m not gonna apologize, but...
88
00:05:57,079 --> 00:05:58,759
It is lovely to see you.
89
00:06:00,079 --> 00:06:01,680
Ah, come on, Kostas.
90
00:06:03,639 --> 00:06:05,160
It’s been 30 years.
91
00:06:06,959 --> 00:06:07,959
It’s a...
92
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,680
It’s nice to see you too.
93
00:06:12,079 --> 00:06:13,600
Lovely to catch up.
94
00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:17,959
No hard feelings.
95
00:06:20,439 --> 00:06:21,439
Cool.
96
00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,153
So...
97
00:06:26,153 --> 00:06:27,800
How is your love life?
98
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:29,399
Well...
99
00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,759
Well, you know, I got
divorced a couple years back.
100
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,920
Yeah, I saw that
on social media.
101
00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,920
I did some research
when you reached out.
102
00:06:38,319 --> 00:06:40,319
Did you really go
over all my old posts?
103
00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:41,540
No. No.
104
00:06:41,639 --> 00:06:44,040
Just the life events.
105
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:45,800
It’s only fair.
106
00:06:45,959 --> 00:06:46,839
Fair? Sure.
107
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,490
You don’t post anything
personal on your social media.
108
00:06:49,490 --> 00:06:52,160
Well, you could have
read my interviews.
109
00:06:53,879 --> 00:06:55,639
I did read your interviews.
110
00:06:55,639 --> 00:06:57,240
There you go.
111
00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:01,240
Okay.
112
00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:02,639
I have a plan.
113
00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:06,360
Let’s go back to
my place for dinner.
114
00:07:26,605 --> 00:07:28,085
So, we’re gonna stop at the market,
115
00:07:28,085 --> 00:07:29,525
um, it’s down this street,
116
00:07:29,525 --> 00:07:32,832
then, we’re gonna go back and I live
about three more blocks away.
117
00:07:32,832 --> 00:07:34,832
Do you live... This is where...
You shop here all the time?
118
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:37,920
Well, it’s... I mean, it’s close by
119
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,700
and there’s good fresh produce.
120
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,319
So you’re having good
time in New York?
121
00:08:04,519 --> 00:08:06,199
I mean, so far, yeah.
122
00:08:06,399 --> 00:08:07,399
Yeah!
123
00:08:07,519 --> 00:08:08,680
I’m glad.
124
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:25,720
What are we cooking?
125
00:08:25,759 --> 00:08:28,040
A recipe that, according to the saying,
126
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has as many variations as it does
babushkas who are cooking it.
127
00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:33,200
How so?
128
00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,159
We are making borscht.
129
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:36,960
Ah, I love it.
130
00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:50,879
Oh wait...
131
00:08:51,639 --> 00:08:53,159
I need to tell you something.
132
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,200
What now?
133
00:08:55,759 --> 00:08:57,200
I’m a vegan.
134
00:08:58,480 --> 00:08:59,679
You’re a vegan?
135
00:08:59,799 --> 00:09:00,799
Yeah...
136
00:09:01,399 --> 00:09:07,320
Well, however unpalatable, it might be
a nice twist on the borscht discourse.
137
00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:08,639
You really think so?
138
00:09:08,639 --> 00:09:09,639
Yes.
139
00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,000
I attended Tomas’s father’s
funeral a few years ago.
140
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:02,279
And?
141
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,639
I’d never seen his
mother like this before.
142
00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,720
She called me
aside and she told me
143
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,879
she felt guilty her entire life.
144
00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,039
What did she say?
145
00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,360
She was devastated.
146
00:10:32,879 --> 00:10:36,840
She blamed his father for not
taking Tomas home from the army.
147
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,279
Blamed herself for going
along with his decision.
148
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,919
I feel like she felt she
could speak more freely
149
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:45,919
since the old man had passed.
150
00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:49,159
I hope you were
able to comfort her.
151
00:10:52,632 --> 00:10:53,576
Hmm...
152
00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,626
I told her that...
153
00:11:02,626 --> 00:11:05,120
...people commit suicide
for complex reasons.
154
00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:10,519
It was natural for her
to feel some guilt.
155
00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,240
I told her she shouldn’t
try and blame herself.
156
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:22,741
But...
157
00:12:31,799 --> 00:12:32,759
But what?
158
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:40,679
Kostas...
159
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,679
I think your book goes too far in
excusing the parents’ choice.
160
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,159
I know it was a different time,
different circumstances, but...
161
00:12:52,279 --> 00:12:55,519
They had a choice to
bring their son home.
162
00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,240
It was their choice not to.
163
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:00,879
Wasn’t much of a choice.
164
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:14,759
A Lithuanian conscript in the Soviet army
is pushed to breaking point by the brutality
165
00:13:14,759 --> 00:13:16,639
of its institutional hazing.
166
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,639
When he tries to rebel, he’s held in
detention and declared unfit to serve.
167
00:13:21,759 --> 00:13:23,559
His parents are
given a choice:
168
00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,600
bring him home with
a socially stigmatizing
169
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:30,279
record of mental illness or
leave him in the army to suffer.
170
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,039
They were given a choice.
171
00:13:33,039 --> 00:13:34,440
These are your words.
172
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,440
Those are the words of my
publisher’s marketing department.
173
00:13:38,039 --> 00:13:41,440
Tomas would not have survived
with a record of mental illness.
174
00:13:41,519 --> 00:13:44,720
He wouldn’t be able to get an
apartment or even a job with that.
175
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,480
He would’ve been ostracized or
thrown into some psychiatric ward.
176
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,399
And he wasn’t mentally ill.
177
00:13:52,039 --> 00:13:54,840
He was just being punished
for being rebellious,
178
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,480
for not following the rules.
179
00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:58,559
I disagree.
180
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,279
It was the eighties already.
181
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,639
Things were getting
somewhat better.
182
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,600
You and I served in Stavropol,
183
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:08,759
we didn’t have
these difficulties.
184
00:14:08,759 --> 00:14:10,879
How can you say things
were getting better?
185
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,759
Tomas was pleading
to be sent to Afghanistan.
186
00:14:13,879 --> 00:14:15,639
He hated the army so much,
187
00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,360
he would rather die in a war
that none of us believed in.
188
00:14:18,519 --> 00:14:22,919
All I’m saying is perhaps things were more
challenging for Tomas because
189
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,080
he did have some mental health
issues and that’s okay.
190
00:14:28,799 --> 00:14:30,679
He would’ve gotten
the help needed when
191
00:14:30,679 --> 00:14:33,480
Lithuania gained
her independence.
192
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,720
But no one knew that Lithuania
would get its freedom.
193
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,080
So how could his
parents know that?
194
00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:42,840
And mental health issues...
195
00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:46,159
Yes, we all have some.
196
00:14:47,159 --> 00:14:50,679
Especially those of us traumatized
by the Soviet regime.
197
00:14:51,759 --> 00:14:54,200
But that doesn’t change the fact
198
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,120
that Tomas was being medicated
as a form of punishment.
199
00:14:59,399 --> 00:15:01,519
They were given a choice.
200
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,639
It wasn’t a real choice.
201
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,919
It’s not fair to those who
did make brave choices.
202
00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:10,360
People found ways to resist
203
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,080
even during the occupation.
204
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,200
Larger ways, smaller ways.
205
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:16,080
What the...?
206
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,840
What the fuck are you
talking about?
207
00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:22,039
What ways to resist?
208
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,039
Yes, you could
choose to resist and...
209
00:16:25,679 --> 00:16:26,679
...die!
210
00:16:27,399 --> 00:16:31,159
You could choose to resist
and be shot, killed, or deported.
211
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:32,919
You know, I feel that...
212
00:16:32,919 --> 00:16:35,039
Does that sound
like a choice to you?
213
00:16:35,879 --> 00:16:39,279
A choice between living a normal life
and becoming a martyr?
214
00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:41,120
You’re not grateful
to the martyrs?
215
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,399
Yes, I am grateful.
216
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,200
Forever grateful.
217
00:16:45,879 --> 00:16:48,240
But I didn’t expect
that from everyone.
218
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,159
I know that I wasn’t a martyr.
219
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,639
We went to the peaceful
protests and the marches.
220
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:55,840
We held hands with millions
in 1989, in the Baltic Chain.
221
00:16:55,919 --> 00:16:58,799
And two years later, when the Soviet tanks
rolled in, we stayed home.
222
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,399
But we honor those brave souls
who did go out in the streets that night.
223
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,160
And those 14 victims who
died, they were heroes.
224
00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:06,880
Their sacrifice matters.
225
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,400
Oh my God, will you stop
this patriotic performance?
226
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:12,759
No one is watching us.
227
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,400
You’re making life sound
like a story.
228
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,279
You’re reducing complex choices
229
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,319
to a battle between
good and evil.
230
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,920
It’s so much more
complicated than that.
231
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,720
Perhaps you’re right.
232
00:17:38,319 --> 00:17:40,759
Did you come up all this
way to review my books?
233
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:20,640
So...
234
00:18:21,079 --> 00:18:22,480
What’s your story?
235
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,000
My story?
236
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:27,920
Is that what you ask people?
237
00:18:28,039 --> 00:18:30,680
Yeah. I thought, well...
238
00:18:31,519 --> 00:18:33,920
Not everybody’s
defined by their job.
239
00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:35,319
I definitely wouldn’t want
240
00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:37,000
people to think that that was
241
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,079
my only outlook on life,
242
00:18:38,079 --> 00:18:39,680
my only perspective.
243
00:18:42,039 --> 00:18:43,720
So now I ask...
244
00:18:44,759 --> 00:18:45,720
"What’s your story?"
245
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:47,880
How polite of you.
246
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,359
So what’s your story?
247
00:18:54,519 --> 00:18:56,640
Hmm, I wake up in
the morning.
248
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,000
I get my coffee.
249
00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:59,519
Hot coffee.
250
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,480
I go to work.
251
00:19:01,799 --> 00:19:04,559
I come home in the
evenings and I read,
252
00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:06,200
and I watch TV.
253
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,839
My story is one boring
and secluded life,
254
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,240
with a touch of everyday resistance.
255
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,359
Routine of working, eating...
256
00:19:18,519 --> 00:19:20,440
...and occasionally fucking.
257
00:19:21,319 --> 00:19:25,799
You could say my existence is
one at odds with toxic optimism.
258
00:19:28,660 --> 00:19:30,319
I’ve said it before,
259
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:31,480
I’ll say it again.
260
00:19:31,519 --> 00:19:34,319
There are those who would
envy your life here in New York.
261
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:35,440
Wait!
262
00:19:35,599 --> 00:19:38,440
Anyone who envies life
in the United States surely
263
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:39,582
doesn’t understand...
264
00:19:40,677 --> 00:19:42,118
...the extent
of capitalist exploitation here.
265
00:19:47,799 --> 00:19:49,720
Well, I consider myself...
266
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,400
...a liberal capitalist.
267
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:54,720
Of course you do.
268
00:19:54,759 --> 00:19:58,160
Even your question - what’s
your story? - is a capitalist one.
269
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,920
Everyone needs to
have a marketable life.
270
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,720
You sound like such a
typical leftist right now.
271
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,279
How you go on in your
books criticizing capitalism.
272
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,013
You saw how broken
Soviet socialism was.
273
00:20:12,013 --> 00:20:14,237
That wasn’t real socialism.
274
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,000
I think it’s disgusting how...
275
00:20:21,839 --> 00:20:25,000
...Western leftists, so-called socialists...
276
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,519
...flirt with communism.
277
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,240
They put Soviet emblems on
their clothing and,
278
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,960
and post on their social media.
279
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,119
They did not experience
the Soviet regime.
280
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,559
They don’t know
anything about it.
281
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,279
What makes you think
I disagree with that?
282
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,720
The fact that some in the West look
for answers where there are none,
283
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,319
just shows you how dissatisfied
they are with their own governments.
284
00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:54,359
I’m critical of Soviet nostalgia
285
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,240
but it doesn’t mean I can’t be
critical of capitalism too.
286
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,200
It’s just an abstract criticism.
287
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,480
I didn’t know you were looking
for an academic debate.
288
00:21:04,279 --> 00:21:05,599
Is that what you want?
289
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,000
You want me to quote
hard scientific data?
290
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,079
You want to read articles on
homelessness in the United States,
291
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,960
mass incarceration or the lack
of proper healthcare?
292
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,519
And you think these problems
don’t exist elsewhere?
293
00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:19,839
There’s a difference
between the United States
294
00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:22,519
and, say, Nordic countries.
295
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:25,519
You have to agree that
296
00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:27,519
Scandinavia or here, people are free,
297
00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:28,839
and that’s what matters.
298
00:21:28,839 --> 00:21:29,799
Where is here?
299
00:21:30,319 --> 00:21:31,839
Are you talking about New York?
300
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,319
Or are you talking about
the United States?
301
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,200
And wh-what does it mean to be free?
302
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,079
What you’re doing right now
demonstrates your freedom.
303
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,279
You are listing the problems
of your government,
304
00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:41,720
you’re doing it openly.
305
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,240
In Russia, you criticize the
government, you would disappear.
306
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,640
You’re comparing the
incomparable again.
307
00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:52,400
Whatever problems
the United States has...
308
00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:55,680
...we still need the US
as a global moral power.
309
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,039
And you might not
like it, but it’s true.
310
00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,079
Moral what?
311
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,799
Moral po... You sound
like a Republican!
312
00:22:01,839 --> 00:22:04,240
It’s not so bad to
sound like a Republican,
313
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,559
especially when it
comes to foreign policy.
314
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,480
I mean, not a MAGA
Trump Republican,
315
00:22:09,599 --> 00:22:10,559
that’s different.
316
00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:12,599
They screech: America First.
317
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:14,160
They don’t care about the world.
318
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,759
They don’t care what’s
happening abroad.
319
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,079
But radical progressives on the
left sound exactly the same to me.
320
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,279
Their slogan isn’t America First,
321
00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:25,000
it’s America Bad.
322
00:22:25,839 --> 00:22:26,880
It’s just...
323
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,640
You, you can’t compare the two sides,
324
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,799
because there are no two sides.
325
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,799
United States has
created senseless wars
326
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,599
and caused untold harm
here and abroad.
327
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,400
Look at Vietnam.
328
00:22:40,599 --> 00:22:42,240
Look at the War on Terror.
329
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,480
Look at Israel.
330
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,519
Look at American expansionism
and the native American genocide.
331
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,960
I mean, you can’t just brush that all aside
because you wanna bomb Russia
332
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,799
or some other tyrannical country.
333
00:22:53,039 --> 00:22:54,799
Oh my God...
334
00:22:56,759 --> 00:22:58,519
Thank God you can’t vote here.
335
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,079
People like you campaigned
against Bernie and then we got Trump.
336
00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:05,640
Oh... No, people like you said:
Bernie or bust.
337
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:06,180
I...
338
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,079
You trashed Hillary
and then you got Trump.
339
00:23:08,079 --> 00:23:09,200
I did not say that.
340
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,279
And I did vote
for her in the end.
341
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,559
Even though my vote in New York didn’t
really mean anything because of the way
342
00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:16,440
elections work here,
343
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,519
which is another problem
with American democracy.
344
00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:24,039
Kostas, if you hate the U.S. so
much, why did you come here?
345
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:25,960
Why do you stay?
346
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,279
If you hate the U.S. so
much, why did you...
347
00:23:36,279 --> 00:23:38,680
I heard you the first time.
348
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,520
Well.
349
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,480
It’s not a particularly
scientific question.
350
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,319
You are making me nuts.
351
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,799
You want simple
answers to extremely
352
00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:55,000
nuanced and complex questions.
353
00:23:55,079 --> 00:23:56,640
Well, yet here we are.
354
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,160
Two openly queer men...
355
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,599
...without fear of persecution.
356
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,400
It’s not bad.
357
00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:13,359
Your vegan borscht.
358
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:50,920
Thank you, sir.
359
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,039
You’re welcome.
360
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,160
Do you remember...
361
00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:39,642
...when you burned our first dinner?
362
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,000
I remember how you burned it.
363
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,319
You were the one
364
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:47,960
cooking your mushrooms in this
365
00:25:48,039 --> 00:25:50,640
super high heat method...
366
00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:53,121
...and then you left them
and went to the bathroom.
367
00:25:53,599 --> 00:25:56,440
Yes, and I asked you
to watch over them.
368
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,000
That became your version
of events over time.
369
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,480
That’s not the way I
remember it anyway.
370
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,720
At the most, you
smiled and nodded.
371
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,440
It’s not the same thing
as asking me to take over.
372
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,160
Okay, it may have been
a few years ago, but
373
00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:15,880
I distinctly remember asking you
to watch over the mushrooms.
374
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,519
Or something...
375
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,160
Then, I come back...
376
00:26:19,319 --> 00:26:20,519
At best, you mumbled.
377
00:26:20,519 --> 00:26:23,359
...and I find you sitting there, reading,
378
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,519
while the pan is fully aflame.
379
00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:27,000
And then...
380
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,720
And then,
381
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,400
you took them out to the balcony,
which is the right thing to do,
382
00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:35,000
and then you got embarrassed
and brought them back in.
383
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:38,920
I... It... Everyone in the building
was gossiping about us.
384
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,240
And then I was about to
burn the entire building down.
385
00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:44,480
Yes, I was embarrassed.
386
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,240
And then you brought
them back inside,
387
00:26:46,319 --> 00:26:48,400
you were about to
pour water on them.
388
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:49,920
It would’ve been a real tragedy.
389
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,279
And you stopped me.
390
00:26:51,279 --> 00:26:52,200
Thank you.
391
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,519
I didn’t know it was dangerous
to pour water on an oil fire.
392
00:26:58,559 --> 00:26:59,839
I saved your life.
393
00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:01,039
Yes.
394
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,841
But you could have just
watched over the mushrooms
395
00:27:03,841 --> 00:27:05,480
in the first place.
396
00:27:05,881 --> 00:27:07,039
Oh God!
397
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,200
At least you took them back out to
the balcony after you tried to kill us.
398
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,119
When you took your shirt off
399
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,400
and you threw it over that pan...
400
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,559
That was like a Hollywood movie.
401
00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:27,799
You were so hot in that moment.
402
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,759
Because of the damn fire.
403
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,640
So, what’s your story?
404
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,200
I think of myself as
an optimistic nomad.
405
00:27:57,559 --> 00:27:59,599
Even though I don’t
travel that much.
406
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,559
I often feel like a man who lives
without really having a home.
407
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,000
You don’t consider
Lithuania your home?
408
00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:14,440
No, I made it my home.
409
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,359
But I don’t feel like a local.
410
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,440
Maybe a local of Vilnius...
411
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,160
So, besides philosophizing...
412
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,759
...how have you been?
413
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:30,960
Since you left me?
414
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:31,920
Well...
415
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,799
I pursued different jobs,
different lovers.
416
00:28:39,079 --> 00:28:40,519
Men, women.
417
00:28:41,319 --> 00:28:45,279
I was spending a lot of time
on those liberal Russian blogs.
418
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:49,559
There was all this interest
in the new technology.
419
00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:52,680
Hope for a free, united world.
420
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,240
Optimistic, indeed.
421
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:02,039
Then I got married.
422
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,160
We were together for 14 years.
423
00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:10,720
Morta left me for a younger
Lithuanian gentleman.
424
00:29:13,119 --> 00:29:14,119
I’m sorry.
425
00:29:18,079 --> 00:29:20,440
It’s okay, it was her midlife crisis.
426
00:29:24,319 --> 00:29:25,519
I did...
427
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,839
...find it kind of impressive.
428
00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:33,762
She took everything
we’d worked for...
429
00:29:33,762 --> 00:29:36,359
...put it behind her so quickly.
430
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,839
Hmm. Still hurt, though.
431
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,960
I think I saw you both
at the book fair in 2010.
432
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:52,160
Yeah...
433
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,640
You didn’t want to have your copy
of the Rainbow Bookstore signed?
434
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,480
No, yeah...
435
00:30:02,839 --> 00:30:04,559
We didn’t have time?
436
00:30:04,599 --> 00:30:05,599
Really?
437
00:30:12,839 --> 00:30:15,000
Alright, I was
afraid to see you.
438
00:30:16,759 --> 00:30:20,440
I prepared myself for that meeting
for months and I just couldn’t do it.
439
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,559
Afraid of what?
440
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,279
I want you to know I was
very much in love with Morta.
441
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,759
I don’t want you to
think it was less real,
442
00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:43,880
you know, I’m bi,
I fall in love
443
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,559
with a person, not their gender.
444
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:50,478
I’m respectful of other
people’s identities, I...
445
00:30:51,559 --> 00:30:54,720
I mean, the language has changed
since we were in the army, I...
446
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:55,839
But I...
447
00:30:55,839 --> 00:30:58,079
I understand bisexuality.
448
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:02,400
Cool.
449
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,519
So what were you afraid of?
450
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:08,720
I was really kind of hoping
451
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,279
you wouldn’t come
back to that question.
452
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,319
Yeah, I noticed.
453
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:18,759
I was afraid you
wouldn’t recognize me.
454
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,759
You wouldn’t want to
talk to me, talk to my wife.
455
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,359
I was afraid of how it
would make me feel.
456
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,000
What was her story?
457
00:31:45,119 --> 00:31:46,799
Oh, she was a composer.
458
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,000
Ah...
459
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,720
So you clearly have a
thing for creative types.
460
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,720
It’s important to me that you know,
461
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,720
that what you and I had was real.
462
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,079
I wouldn’t want you
to think it was...
463
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:09,519
I don’t know,
464
00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:12,079
I grew out of it,
marrying a woman.
465
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,200
I’m grateful that you made the choice
to come and join me after our service.
466
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:35,079
Play something
by your wife for me.
467
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:37,240
My ex-wife.
468
00:33:35,490 --> 00:33:37,490
Oh!
469
00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:23,159
I’m sorry.
470
00:35:26,441 --> 00:35:29,320
I wasn’t looking for
a one-night stand.
471
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:32,800
Again,
472
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:33,800
I’m sorry.
473
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,519
Just leave the damn dishes.
474
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,480
That’s not enough to
say you’re sorry, Kostas.
475
00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:54,719
I thought you said
everything was good.
476
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:56,239
Yeah.
477
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,320
I lied.
478
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,760
Your book is meant to show that you’re
not responsible for leaving me behind,
479
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,039
but that’s not true.
480
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,000
What do you want me to say?
481
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,559
It was a different time.
482
00:36:19,639 --> 00:36:20,480
I...
483
00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:23,159
I didn’t have a choice.
484
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:31,079
When the borders opened, how could I refuse
the opportunity to study in New York?
485
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,960
That was my dream come true.
486
00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:40,719
My professors would have
thought I was an idiot if I refused.
487
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,239
That’s just it, Kostas.
488
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:43,920
In your book, you portray me
489
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,440
as someone who wanted you
to stay in Lithuania.
490
00:36:46,559 --> 00:36:47,559
I didn’t.
491
00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:49,639
I never asked you to stay.
492
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,599
I’d have followed you here
493
00:36:52,599 --> 00:36:54,639
or anywhere else.
494
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,639
I-I couldn’t just marry you
and get you a visa.
495
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,039
There just was no legal
basis to take you with me.
496
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,760
There’s always a workaround.
497
00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:13,920
You know, the cruelest
part of your book is...
498
00:37:17,599 --> 00:37:20,400
...when you say you’re going
to find a way to bring me here,
499
00:37:20,519 --> 00:37:23,039
and then you write
that, in saying that,
500
00:37:23,039 --> 00:37:24,800
you knew it was already
over between us.
501
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,320
It’s fiction, Dima.
502
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,800
Did you think it was already over between us
when you said you’d find a way to bring me here?
503
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,360
Is that what you were thinking
in our last weeks together,
504
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,000
preparing for your trip?
505
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,159
I think in the back of my
mind, I was preparing
506
00:37:44,159 --> 00:37:46,000
for my new life.
507
00:37:49,039 --> 00:37:52,440
I wanted to leave
Lithuania behind.
508
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,639
The way you left Russia.
509
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,800
I didn’t think it was possible
to take you with me.
510
00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:06,920
Christ, you were leaving
for the free world.
511
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,679
It had to be a solution,
I could have gotten a job.
512
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,000
I could have gotten asylum.
513
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,519
Homosexuality was still criminalized
in Lithuania until 1993.
514
00:38:17,519 --> 00:38:19,199
You weren’t in danger.
515
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,320
All I’m saying is
you could have tried,
516
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:22,760
I could have tried.
517
00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:25,079
You didn’t let me.
518
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,400
You left me behind,
you cut me off!
519
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:28,280
I... I...
520
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,760
You had a choice!
521
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,000
Dima.
522
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:58,480
Did you go far?
523
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,000
I was here.
524
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,239
Did you miss me just now
or for the last 30 years?
525
00:42:14,599 --> 00:42:16,000
Just spend the night here.
526
00:42:16,599 --> 00:42:19,360
I told you, I have to get to
the airport early in the morning.
527
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,119
You want to be
there at, like, ten?
528
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:23,239
Like nine.
529
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,159
Okay, here’s my proposal.
530
00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:29,360
Let’s have a conversation.
531
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,199
About everything.
532
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,400
And everything is forgiven, just...
533
00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:36,039
...for one night.
534
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:41,920
Okay.
535
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,440
Oh... I changed my mind.
536
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,719
You can help me with the dishes.
537
00:43:30,519 --> 00:43:32,360
Oh, no, I’m good.
538
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:34,920
We’re not drinking anymore?
539
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,519
You can drink if you
want to, I’m good.
540
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,039
Are you sure?
541
00:43:39,039 --> 00:43:41,920
Yes, and please stop pressuring me.
542
00:43:43,079 --> 00:43:44,280
You’ve changed.
543
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,440
So, our conversation?
544
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,559
Our conversation just got sober.
545
00:44:39,079 --> 00:44:40,679
Should we set rules?
546
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:42,800
No.
547
00:44:43,679 --> 00:44:44,679
No rules.
548
00:44:45,679 --> 00:44:47,960
Well, maybe: one rule.
549
00:44:48,519 --> 00:44:50,440
No sarcasm allowed.
550
00:44:52,119 --> 00:44:55,039
I think we’re setting
ourselves up for failure.
551
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,159
I really liked what you...
552
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:07,239
...said about our careers
not defining us.
553
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:13,159
Your what’s your story?
question is actually a great one.
554
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:15,760
Thank you.
555
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,679
And in the back of my mind,
I started thinking...
556
00:45:21,519 --> 00:45:23,039
What does define us?
557
00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:25,119
Or what does define me?
558
00:45:26,519 --> 00:45:28,719
Well, what defines you?
559
00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:38,880
I think as trivial
as it sounds, I’m...
560
00:45:42,079 --> 00:45:43,559
I’m defined...
561
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,918
...by being a Lithuanian
in New York.
562
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,519
I mean, even though I have
an American passport,
563
00:45:51,519 --> 00:45:53,519
I still feel like an outsider.
564
00:45:54,159 --> 00:45:57,840
Kostas, United States is
a country of immigrants,
565
00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,559
especially New York.
566
00:46:00,159 --> 00:46:02,119
Why would you
feel like an outsider?
567
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,400
A country of immigrants, but
with a lot of additional terms.
568
00:46:07,159 --> 00:46:10,440
It all depends on how
well assimilated you are...
569
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,960
What generation immigrant
you are, what,
570
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,519
what the color of your skin is.
571
00:46:16,559 --> 00:46:18,360
Kostas, your skin color is white,
572
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,000
you seem really well assimilated
here in New York.
573
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:23,800
Right...
574
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,800
Why would you
feel like an outsider?
575
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,199
I guess I feel like an
outsider for...
576
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:34,440
...other reasons.
577
00:46:36,679 --> 00:46:38,280
As a queer person, too.
578
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,840
This is New York, the
queer capital of the world.
579
00:46:43,039 --> 00:46:45,880
I don’t think San Francisco
would agree with you there, but...
580
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,480
These are good observations.
581
00:46:52,119 --> 00:46:53,400
But the truth is that...
582
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,719
...inner conflicts aren’t
always entirely rational.
583
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:03,800
I was socialized differently.
584
00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:08,639
I grew up in a very
homophobic society.
585
00:47:10,159 --> 00:47:12,639
And I still carry
that around with me.
586
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:15,960
And sometimes it hurts.
587
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,280
And sometimes I feel ashamed.
588
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:26,679
Why would you feel ashamed?
589
00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:46,679
So, what about you?
590
00:47:49,159 --> 00:47:55,000
Don’t you feel like an outsider
as a Russian in Lithuania?
591
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:56,679
Especially now?
592
00:47:58,519 --> 00:48:01,039
Kostas, even the way
you’re framing it is wrong.
593
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,880
I got my Lithuanian
passport in the nineties.
594
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,679
I considered myself a
Lithuanian citizen ever since.
595
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:11,440
I’m a Lithuanian.
596
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,480
I live, work and vote in Lithuania.
597
00:48:16,079 --> 00:48:19,599
I’ve even learned the language,
however flawed I am at it.
598
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:21,519
I don’t care.
599
00:48:21,599 --> 00:48:23,599
I don’t feel like an outsider.
600
00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:29,480
I feel like a part of a
diverse Lithuanian society.
601
00:48:31,079 --> 00:48:32,639
That’s curious.
602
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,800
At first, you said you felt
patriotic about Lithuania...
603
00:48:39,559 --> 00:48:42,800
...and then you described
yourself as a nomad,
604
00:48:43,039 --> 00:48:45,599
as if you have no home.
605
00:48:48,159 --> 00:48:52,119
And now you say you
feel strongly about
606
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,440
belonging both in and to Lithuania.
607
00:48:58,679 --> 00:49:00,639
Well, let me put it this way.
608
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,280
I’m proud of living
in Lithuania,
609
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,519
but I also feel like a passport
doesn’t necessarily define me.
610
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,639
I have another insight,
611
00:49:15,639 --> 00:49:16,599
if I may.
612
00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:18,119
Well, you may.
613
00:49:18,159 --> 00:49:20,840
Everything is fair in
our mega chat.
614
00:49:22,431 --> 00:49:23,653
Hmm!
615
00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:26,679
I think you...
616
00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:29,639
...have conflicting feelings.
617
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,199
I think you’re trying to
618
00:49:35,199 --> 00:49:37,360
erase your Russian identity...
619
00:49:38,599 --> 00:49:42,320
...to become the model
Lithuanian citizen.
620
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:43,960
And I...
621
00:49:44,519 --> 00:49:47,400
I understand where
that comes from, but...
622
00:49:48,599 --> 00:49:52,400
Again, who’s...
Who’s watching?
623
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:55,400
Who’s asking for that proof?
624
00:49:56,079 --> 00:49:57,039
Oh...
625
00:49:57,199 --> 00:49:58,239
That’s heavy.
626
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,761
And...
627
00:50:01,761 --> 00:50:04,079
Your insights
are perhaps correct.
628
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,440
But let me ask you,
629
00:50:07,639 --> 00:50:10,920
why shouldn’t I be
ashamed of Russia?
630
00:50:12,159 --> 00:50:13,920
You should be proud
of your heritage.
631
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,920
You’re from a small, unique country
that’s faced a lot of suffering.
632
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,199
On the other hand,
now you’re an American.
633
00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:24,360
The way you talk
about the United States,
634
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,440
you seem to take responsibility
for all of its faults.
635
00:50:29,599 --> 00:50:35,740
You feel shame at all the wrongdoing
being done in its name,
636
00:50:35,740 --> 00:50:37,679
in your name.
637
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,639
So why shouldn’t I be allowed
to be ashamed of being Russian?
638
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:45,719
That’s exactly the point.
639
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,239
I’m an American citizen, and...
640
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,320
You’re Lithuanian.
641
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:58,079
As citizens, we’re responsible for
the United States and Lithuania.
642
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,280
You’re saying I should be
proud of my Lithuanian heritage.
643
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,639
So why can’t you have pride
in your Russian background?
644
00:51:05,639 --> 00:51:07,639
Well, it’s different.
645
00:51:12,639 --> 00:51:15,119
I’m proud of
living in Lithuania.
646
00:51:16,199 --> 00:51:18,559
But she’s not a terrorist country.
647
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,239
And for all her flaws,
648
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,000
she’s not an occupying power.
649
00:51:24,039 --> 00:51:25,079
Yes, but...
650
00:51:25,159 --> 00:51:28,400
If everyone from every
country felt that way...
651
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,360
...who would be able to
have pride in themselves?
652
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:37,239
I mean, Brazil, Germany, Serbia,
653
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:42,119
Rwanda, China, Iran, Japan...
654
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,280
Can any of them celebrate their culture
655
00:51:45,519 --> 00:51:48,840
or is that all erased by their crimes?
656
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:50,481
Well...
657
00:51:50,481 --> 00:51:53,840
I think each case should
be considered separately.
658
00:51:56,199 --> 00:51:58,440
You have to understand
659
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:02,920
you’re doing Russia a disservice
by being so naively overprotective.
660
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,840
Russian culture and Russian
identity cannot be separated
661
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,840
from Russian terror right now.
662
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,199
It’s what their society
clings to and supports,
663
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:21,239
seeing terror as essential
to maintaining its pride.
664
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,320
You have to set boundaries
for Russia.
665
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,320
You have to take
that pride away,
666
00:52:27,559 --> 00:52:30,480
until that culture
learns to change.
667
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,239
I see your point.
668
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,920
I would love to be considered
a citizen of the world.
669
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:56,760
But I don’t tell anyone that.
670
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,079
I don’t want them
to think I was naive.
671
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,440
We were both born in the Soviet Union.
672
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,360
A country that doesn’t exist anymore.
673
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:08,320
Hmm.
674
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,360
I see that a little differently.
675
00:53:13,039 --> 00:53:15,199
I was born in Soviet Russia.
676
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,239
You were born in Lithuania,
677
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,480
occupied by Soviet Russia.
678
00:53:22,119 --> 00:53:23,800
Okay, another example.
679
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,119
Borscht again, cold borscht.
680
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,480
We Lithuanians love to claim
that bright pink soup as our own.
681
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,920
We’re proud that it originated
in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.
682
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:42,639
But the Grand Duchy of Lithuania
included modern day Belarus and beyond.
683
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,519
So, geography is not always
as stable as it may seem.
684
00:53:48,079 --> 00:53:50,079
And if that’s the case,
685
00:53:50,079 --> 00:53:51,800
can it ever define us?
686
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,719
I don’t know, Kostas, I’m
the dreamer here.
687
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:00,639
I’d love to say it doesn’t,
but all those
688
00:54:00,639 --> 00:54:04,559
shifts and changes you’re
talking about, they leave a mark.
689
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:10,559
Leave a mark...
690
00:54:11,679 --> 00:54:12,679
Yes.
691
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:23,719
Many people are defined
by their religion.
692
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:28,679
Are you still an atheist?
693
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:33,760
Oh... Kostas, we have one
shot at this beautiful life,
694
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:35,880
and that’s what
makes it so beautiful.
695
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,920
I guess that answers
my question.
696
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:40,000
You still are.
697
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:40,599
Yeah.
698
00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:41,400
For fuck’s sake,
699
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:42,679
I hope you are, too.
700
00:54:43,119 --> 00:54:44,440
Not as hardcore as you,
701
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,000
I never was.
702
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,840
I respect religious freedom.
703
00:54:50,679 --> 00:54:52,760
And I wish I was a believer.
704
00:54:53,159 --> 00:54:54,199
I’m just not.
705
00:54:55,039 --> 00:54:56,960
I wasn’t brought up that way.
706
00:54:58,039 --> 00:55:01,360
But if there’s an afterlife,
I am not gonna complain.
707
00:55:03,199 --> 00:55:08,719
I tell you what - if I meet the Almighty
after I die, I won’t debate his existence either.
708
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:13,039
But that’s not going to happen,
709
00:55:13,039 --> 00:55:14,719
and in the meantime,
710
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,679
the religious propaganda machine
makes everybody miserable.
711
00:55:19,079 --> 00:55:21,760
Alright, that’s a
problematic approach.
712
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:23,639
That’s a sort of...
713
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,280
...intellectual colonialism.
714
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,599
A very Western-centric
point of view.
715
00:55:30,599 --> 00:55:32,880
There’s nothing wrong
with being Western.
716
00:55:33,599 --> 00:55:37,719
You have to understand that the
majority of the world is religious.
717
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:39,840
Something like 85%.
718
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:41,119
And you have to understand
719
00:55:41,119 --> 00:55:44,679
that the majority of people
in the world are idiots.
720
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,538
You call yourself a liberal,
721
00:55:48,538 --> 00:55:51,679
but you really just want everyone
to think the same way that you do.
722
00:55:59,679 --> 00:56:01,480
You ever tried any therapy?
723
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,639
I did about six years
in my forties.
724
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:06,679
Changed my life.
725
00:56:13,159 --> 00:56:14,760
No, I haven’t.
726
00:56:16,119 --> 00:56:17,320
That’s too bad.
727
00:56:18,199 --> 00:56:19,920
I think therapy
should be mandatory
728
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,039
for all traumatized
people like us.
729
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:23,599
Thank you.
730
00:56:25,679 --> 00:56:26,480
Strange, though.
731
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,960
Why didn’t you choose
to go to therapy?
732
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:32,519
That is an interesting question.
733
00:56:32,519 --> 00:56:36,280
Like, I choose not to do
everything that I don’t do.
734
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,159
I wake up in the morning
and I choose...
735
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:42,519
...not to go to Canada.
736
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,039
I choose not to fall in love.
737
00:56:46,599 --> 00:56:48,920
I choose not to go to therapy.
738
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,119
C’mon Kostas, everybody
here goes to therapy.
739
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,119
What if I don’t
believe in therapy?
740
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,599
You don’t have to
believe in it, it’s science.
741
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,519
Yeah, but it’s based
on personal change.
742
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,239
It doesn’t take into account
social conditions as much.
743
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,039
I’m sure there’s plenty
of therapists that...
744
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:08,840
...focus on it.
745
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,679
And what’s wrong
with personal change?
746
00:57:10,679 --> 00:57:11,880
It’s like the whole idea.
747
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,559
It’s just problematic.
748
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:19,760
From Freudian sexism to the pure homophobia
of forcing gay people into conversion therapy.
749
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:21,920
There you go again,
talking about the past.
750
00:57:22,159 --> 00:57:23,599
What past?
751
00:57:24,559 --> 00:57:26,840
Conversion therapy is still
legal in many countries
752
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,639
and several states in the United States.
753
00:57:29,679 --> 00:57:32,360
Well, I didn’t know
that about the U.S.,
754
00:57:32,639 --> 00:57:34,519
but I’m sure mainstream
755
00:57:34,519 --> 00:57:36,239
health organizations don’t
756
00:57:36,639 --> 00:57:38,280
endorse conversion therapy.
757
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,800
It’s not even endorsed
in Lithuania.
758
00:57:42,199 --> 00:57:45,840
You are faster to blame
therapy for homophobia,
759
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:47,519
and you forgive
the Catholic Church.
760
00:57:49,239 --> 00:57:52,039
No, I am critical of
the Catholic Church.
761
00:57:52,159 --> 00:57:56,159
I just said I respect everyone’s
personal religious freedom.
762
00:57:56,559 --> 00:57:59,360
You just criticize everything
that’s American and Western.
763
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,400
What’s wrong with
being self-critical?
764
00:58:01,679 --> 00:58:03,039
What do you want me to do?
765
00:58:03,039 --> 00:58:07,199
Run out into the street and yell:
I’m proud to be an American!
766
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:08,719
I want you to go to therapy.
767
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,840
Well unfortunately, that’s my choice.
768
00:58:15,079 --> 00:58:17,599
Yeah. Your choice.
769
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,480
I feel like we were getting
more vulnerable.
770
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,440
And we took a wrong
turn somewhere.
771
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,599
Well, because you won’t
stop talking about religion.
772
00:58:36,039 --> 00:58:40,719
And you wanted to replace the confessional
booth with the therapist couch.
773
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,440
At least confessions
are still free.
774
00:58:46,045 --> 00:58:47,961
Well.
775
00:58:47,961 --> 00:58:51,639
As my therapist used
to say: let’s move on.
776
00:58:52,159 --> 00:58:54,800
Let’s talk about
something more personal.
777
00:59:03,519 --> 00:59:05,079
Did you ever want
to have children?
778
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:06,880
Oof.
779
00:59:07,239 --> 00:59:08,920
It’s a loaded question.
780
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:14,480
I feel like everybody wants
children on a instinctual level.
781
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:15,639
But?
782
00:59:15,639 --> 00:59:17,881
Well...
783
00:59:17,881 --> 00:59:19,480
I never felt ready.
784
00:59:22,519 --> 00:59:25,199
You know, Morta didn’t
want children either.
785
00:59:25,559 --> 00:59:26,599
I liked that.
786
00:59:28,239 --> 00:59:29,840
It felt queerer that way.
787
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:32,679
And we both liked that.
788
00:59:32,679 --> 00:59:33,559
Why?
789
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,119
I mean, she knew
about your bisexuality?
790
00:59:36,559 --> 00:59:37,559
Of course.
791
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,159
We shared a life together.
792
00:59:41,719 --> 00:59:43,480
Wait, so you had
an open marriage?
793
00:59:47,719 --> 00:59:51,199
That is offensive, Kostas!
794
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,360
What? No, a lot of people here are
795
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,159
in open marriages or relationships.
796
00:59:55,159 --> 00:59:58,920
Yeah, but you assumed that
we were in an open marriage
797
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,719
because I was open
about my bisexuality.
798
01:00:02,719 --> 01:00:05,880
You’re equating bisexuality
with promiscuity.
799
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,280
Okay, you’re right.
800
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:14,719
I’m sorry.
801
01:00:15,599 --> 01:00:16,599
That’s okay.
802
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,559
I don’t think polyamory
would work for me.
803
01:00:24,199 --> 01:00:25,960
When was the last
time you were in
804
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:27,199
a long-term relationship?
805
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,239
Oh, it’s been a while.
806
01:00:33,119 --> 01:00:36,079
There was a visiting
professor a few years ago.
807
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,400
But he was visiting.
808
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:42,320
And then he left.
809
01:00:44,519 --> 01:00:47,440
I always choose the impossible.
810
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:52,320
Hmm.
811
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:55,800
How about you -
have you ever want kids?
812
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:57,400
No.
813
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,199
I would have been
a terrible parent.
814
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:06,000
And I’m not really into the whole
homonormative family thing.
815
01:01:07,639 --> 01:01:10,840
What’s wrong with two people
just wanting to start a family together?
816
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:13,360
Well, you didn’t do it yourself.
817
01:01:14,119 --> 01:01:16,079
Well, yeah, but, I mean,
818
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:17,679
it was for different reasons.
819
01:01:17,679 --> 01:01:20,760
So, you not only want people to
think the same way you do,
820
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,000
you want them to do it
for the same reasons.
821
01:01:23,041 --> 01:01:25,041
Ah...!
822
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,280
All right, let’s
turn this around.
823
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:36,559
What about your parents?
824
01:01:38,159 --> 01:01:39,159
No news.
825
01:01:39,239 --> 01:01:40,639
You’re still ignoring them?
826
01:01:41,199 --> 01:01:44,079
Ignoring sounds
like an active thing.
827
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:46,559
I simply cut them
off when I left Russia.
828
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,280
I thought you might have learned
to forgive them in therapy?
829
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,079
In therapy I learned not
to regret my decision -
830
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,599
and how badly they fucked me up, and
831
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:58,440
what awful people they are.
832
01:01:59,039 --> 01:02:01,920
Don’t you think it was
a different time,
833
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,119
and a different society?
834
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,280
I mean, no one knew how to raise
children back then and...
835
01:02:08,599 --> 01:02:11,760
...physical punishment
was the norm in Soviet Union.
836
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:15,239
You need to be a little
sensitive here.
837
01:02:15,239 --> 01:02:17,840
My parents were abusive.
838
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:20,719
And there’s never any excuse for that.
839
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:23,480
I understand.
840
01:02:26,159 --> 01:02:30,000
I wish I had been as tough
with my own parents sometimes.
841
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:33,480
They died a few years ago.
842
01:02:33,481 --> 01:02:35,159
Oh...
843
01:02:35,159 --> 01:02:36,679
I’m sorry for your loss.
844
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:37,960
Thanks.
845
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,480
They lived long lives.
846
01:02:43,159 --> 01:02:45,599
Seems silly to be sad about it.
847
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:48,599
But I was.
848
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:51,079
And I am.
849
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:53,920
Why do you say that you
needed to be harder on them?
850
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,880
You never mentioned them
being abusive, were they?
851
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:58,760
No, not physically.
852
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,000
But they expected a lot from me.
853
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:07,440
They instilled a perfectionism that’s...
854
01:03:09,039 --> 01:03:10,079
That’s hard to get rid of.
855
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:14,559
Sorry about that.
856
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:19,840
Well, they’re dead now.
857
01:04:12,519 --> 01:04:14,639
War has me thinking about dying.
858
01:04:18,159 --> 01:04:20,840
It's scary to think
how short our lives are.
859
01:04:23,519 --> 01:04:26,039
I see my death
just approaching.
860
01:04:26,039 --> 01:04:27,159
And I’m...
861
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,239
Not looking forward to it.
862
01:04:32,960 --> 01:04:36,119
That’s the downside to
loving life a little too much.
863
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,000
Neither one of us has children.
864
01:04:39,679 --> 01:04:41,880
You have your books,
you’ll leave them behind.
865
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:43,719
I have nothing.
866
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:50,920
Software engineer’s work is
designed to be replaced. Upgraded.
867
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,920
You're as much a part
of my books as I am.
868
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:02,800
Thank you, Kostas.
869
01:05:06,679 --> 01:05:09,800
If you really want to know me,
870
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:11,480
you should read my books.
871
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,079
Not the ones I’ve written,
872
01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:15,800
but the ones I’ve read.
873
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:48,519
Like this one?
874
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:50,800
Yes.
875
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:58,199
Or Baldwin, Halberstam,
Foucault, Sedgwick,
876
01:05:58,199 --> 01:06:02,800
Cunningham, Butler,
Isherwood, Delany.
877
01:06:04,159 --> 01:06:06,960
I have to admit, I don’t
know any of those authors.
878
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,480
You weren’t intrigued when
you read the Rainbow Bookstore?
879
01:06:10,599 --> 01:06:12,920
Oh, I read it as your
own personal account.
880
01:06:15,079 --> 01:06:18,840
I didn’t think you could read that book
without understanding the references.
881
01:06:19,039 --> 01:06:20,320
That’s all it was - references?
882
01:06:21,359 --> 01:06:22,900
Nothing personal?
883
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:24,920
Writing is personal.
884
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:26,760
I mean, many of these writers
885
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:28,960
walked the same
streets in New York.
886
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,000
I met some of them when
they gave guest lectures here.
887
01:06:34,239 --> 01:06:37,679
They describe the
lives they led, I assume.
888
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:41,239
I always pictured you having
889
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,880
a wild life in New York.
890
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:46,639
Sorry to disappoint you, Dima.
891
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:50,119
It’s a book about a librarian.
892
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:56,000
I am a camera
with its shutter open,
893
01:06:56,000 --> 01:07:00,599
quite passive, recording,
not thinking.
894
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:04,039
I think I read it as a
895
01:07:04,039 --> 01:07:07,280
book about a choice
between living and dying.
896
01:07:09,239 --> 01:07:10,119
How so?
897
01:07:10,719 --> 01:07:14,239
Well, Kyle uses his inheritance
898
01:07:14,239 --> 01:07:16,000
to start a queer bookstore.
899
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,400
It’s because he’s afraid of dying
without leaving something behind.
900
01:07:20,039 --> 01:07:21,159
Sure.
901
01:07:21,599 --> 01:07:23,519
Then along comes the
handsome Diego and...
902
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,559
...forces Kyle to fall
back in love with life,
903
01:07:29,559 --> 01:07:31,320
and they hit the road
happily ever after.
904
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:35,400
But I saw it as a choice
between legacy and love.
905
01:07:40,159 --> 01:07:41,960
What are you reading these days?
906
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,760
Well, mostly sci-fi.
907
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:48,840
A lot of Ukrainian literature.
908
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:54,480
Did you start before Russia
invaded Ukraine or after?
909
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:57,320
Hmm...
910
01:08:12,079 --> 01:08:13,519
This is...
911
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:16,319
Canceled.
912
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:20,119
Canceled.
913
01:08:23,159 --> 01:08:24,239
Canceled.
914
01:08:24,399 --> 01:08:25,319
Why?
915
01:08:26,119 --> 01:08:27,439
Because they’re Russian?
916
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:29,520
Because they’re chauvinists.
917
01:08:31,159 --> 01:08:33,119
We can come back to them later.
918
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:35,840
When?
919
01:08:43,239 --> 01:08:46,439
When Russia, as we
know it, ceases to exist.
920
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:49,800
When all the different countries
921
01:08:50,159 --> 01:08:51,760
currently colonized by Russia
922
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,359
become independent and free.
923
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:58,119
What about Tolstoy?
924
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:01,720
I guess he can stick
around for now.
925
01:09:03,199 --> 01:09:04,760
With a lot of footnotes.
926
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:09,319
You are really reworking
my curriculum right now.
927
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:12,039
You should teach
Faggots instead.
928
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:15,520
That would be a
different department.
929
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:18,119
Anyway.
930
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:20,359
I don’t see how a reading list
931
01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:22,199
can say all that
much about someone.
932
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,279
Well, at this point,
Dima, I give up.
933
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:28,119
I mean, we have
934
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:30,359
talked about practically everything.
935
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:31,520
We talked about...
936
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,199
...politics and immigration,
937
01:09:35,399 --> 01:09:37,279
we talked about
our nationalities,
938
01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:38,560
we talked about
939
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,119
our families, talked
about religion
940
01:09:42,359 --> 01:09:45,520
and sex, and our work.
941
01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:48,319
Our relationship status...
942
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:51,359
What else is there to know?
943
01:09:51,359 --> 01:09:53,279
All that stuff doesn’t
really define someone.
944
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,560
You should know
that as a writer.
945
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:58,560
So, what does define you?
946
01:10:03,239 --> 01:10:04,600
Choices.
947
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:09,880
My choices, Kostas.
948
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:18,199
The choice to make love to you in the army,
even though it was dangerous.
949
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:22,279
Choice to come to you in Lithuania.
950
01:10:24,119 --> 01:10:27,319
Choice to leave all my
friends and family behind,
951
01:10:27,319 --> 01:10:30,359
my choice to read your book,
952
01:10:30,359 --> 01:10:32,359
come and visit you in New York.
953
01:10:36,119 --> 01:10:39,239
Sometimes life just
happens, Kostas.
954
01:10:43,119 --> 01:10:47,640
Complicated situations,
difficult dilemmas.
955
01:10:49,359 --> 01:10:54,560
The choices we make in those
situations define our character.
956
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:57,880
Don’t say anything cynical.
957
01:10:58,079 --> 01:10:59,800
I wasn’t going to.
958
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:03,880
I’m enjoying this conversation.
959
01:11:05,199 --> 01:11:08,079
And I appreciate your perspective.
960
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:11,479
I still think it’s optimistic...
961
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:13,520
I said I was an optimist.
962
01:11:16,279 --> 01:11:19,479
I mean, we are defined by the
family that we grew up in.
963
01:11:20,239 --> 01:11:22,960
The religion that
we learned as a child.
964
01:11:23,119 --> 01:11:26,479
We are defined by the education
that we were able to receive.
965
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:30,199
We are defined by the mental health
of the people that surrounded us.
966
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:35,560
We are defined by whether we grew up in
poverty or luxury, or something in between.
967
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:41,159
Kostas, you’re a middle-class
writer living a comfortable life.
968
01:11:42,159 --> 01:11:44,560
Your first book was an
international success.
969
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,800
You still enjoy a loyal fan base
in your home country.
970
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:51,159
You have the privileges
you’re describing here.
971
01:11:51,159 --> 01:11:54,439
You spent half of your adult
life married to a woman.
972
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:56,800
No one knew anything
about your sexuality.
973
01:11:57,199 --> 01:11:58,479
Are you...
974
01:11:59,119 --> 01:12:02,119
...complaining that I didn’t experience
975
01:12:02,119 --> 01:12:04,119
as much homophobia as you did?
976
01:12:04,159 --> 01:12:06,640
Do you know how much
backlash I got from my writing
977
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:07,840
from Lithuania?
978
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:09,760
How many threatening emails?
979
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:10,840
Emails...
980
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:16,880
Kostas, compare the
families we grew up in.
981
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,520
The countries we grew up in,
the cities in which we now live.
982
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,640
No one knew that
you were bisexual,
983
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:24,680
still nobody knows!
984
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:26,279
My friends know!
985
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:28,520
And I had my challenges.
986
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:30,880
I fought for what I
wanted and I got it.
987
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,479
And that’s how you wrote
your first book, too.
988
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:36,520
Now, your second books
are all about complaining.
989
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:39,000
Look what it got you.
990
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:43,720
Released in Lithuania
only, no translations.
991
01:12:44,039 --> 01:12:46,439
Kostas, you got cynical.
992
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:47,920
You fought for yourself, yes,
993
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,279
but did you fight for
democracy in Russia?
994
01:12:50,319 --> 01:12:52,560
Or human rights in Lithuania?
995
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:55,399
You don’t care about society.
996
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:56,720
You only care about yourself.
997
01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,359
So, stop preaching your
enlightenment to everyone.
998
01:13:02,119 --> 01:13:02,619
I see.
999
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:06,079
Go back to Russia if you are so
brave and change things there.
1000
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:09,680
Show how everything is possible
by setting an example.
1001
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:16,800
I’m going to go to the bathroom
and then I think I need to leave.
1002
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:21,760
You know, off to Russia.
1003
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:24,720
To start a fucking revolution.
1004
01:13:26,199 --> 01:13:27,439
You don’t need to leave.
1005
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:44,560
You know, as much time
as we’ve spoken here today,
1006
01:13:45,079 --> 01:13:47,439
I’ve still left two
things unsaid.
1007
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:50,560
I was waiting
for the right time,
1008
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:52,640
but I guess it
doesn’t matter now.
1009
01:13:57,079 --> 01:13:59,520
I never had a job
interview here.
1010
01:14:00,039 --> 01:14:01,479
I came to see you.
1011
01:14:02,159 --> 01:14:04,439
I decided to after
I read your new book.
1012
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:08,319
I thought that since you
decided to write it,
1013
01:14:08,319 --> 01:14:11,398
as much as I hated the
way you portrayed us,
1014
01:14:11,398 --> 01:14:13,920
you might still have
feelings for me.
1015
01:14:15,399 --> 01:14:16,760
I was wrong.
1016
01:14:17,079 --> 01:14:17,840
I...
1017
01:14:18,159 --> 01:14:20,239
Please, don’t say anything now.
1018
01:14:22,079 --> 01:14:23,640
The second is...
1019
01:14:25,239 --> 01:14:26,800
...at the funeral,
1020
01:14:29,039 --> 01:14:31,359
Tomas’s mother showed me his letters.
1021
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,359
Not to keep, just to photograph.
1022
01:14:36,359 --> 01:14:39,872
I’ll, of course, forward
all of them to you, but
1023
01:14:39,872 --> 01:14:43,517
but I wanted you to see this one now.
1024
01:15:13,079 --> 01:15:15,520
I decided to cut
my service short.
1025
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:18,319
Don’t worry about it.
1026
01:15:23,199 --> 01:15:24,479
I felt healthy before,
1027
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:26,239
but not anymore.
1028
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:29,840
I’m in the hospital now,
1029
01:15:30,159 --> 01:15:32,279
the neurological section.
1030
01:15:35,279 --> 01:15:37,520
I miss Kostas and Dima,
1031
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:39,800
they’re my best friends here.
1032
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,600
I’m jealous over how much
they love each other.
1033
01:15:48,359 --> 01:15:51,920
Mom, Dad, I forbid
you to worry about me.
1034
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,319
Yours, Tomas the madcap.
1035
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:41,800
No one would say that about a friendship
between two men these days.
1036
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:44,479
It would sound queer.
1037
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:46,079
It was queer.
1038
01:16:47,039 --> 01:16:48,199
Well yeah, but...
1039
01:16:50,039 --> 01:16:51,319
He didn’t know that.
1040
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:54,199
Perhaps.
1041
01:16:58,399 --> 01:17:00,479
I blame myself for not...
1042
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:03,680
...helping Tomas enough.
1043
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:07,319
We could have fought for him.
1044
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:10,640
No... We couldn’t.
1045
01:17:12,319 --> 01:17:14,800
It was really nice talking
to you, Kostas.
1046
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:17,279
Dima, that’s not right.
1047
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:22,000
I need to apologize to you.
1048
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:23,760
It’s...
1049
01:17:25,279 --> 01:17:26,600
Very late.
1050
01:17:27,359 --> 01:17:28,640
Past midnight.
1051
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:31,119
Too late for apologies.
1052
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:35,319
No, not too late yet.
1053
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:37,560
Stay.
1054
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:41,680
I’ll write you a letter.
1055
01:17:44,310 --> 01:17:46,310
Hmm.
1056
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:12,760
Dear Dima,
1057
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:15,760
I loved you from the first time we met.
1058
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:18,319
Serving in Stavropol,
1059
01:18:18,359 --> 01:18:21,199
we shared a friendship
and a camaraderie.
1060
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:23,079
And we shared more.
1061
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:26,479
A passion that was secret,
1062
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:28,359
yet felt so innocent.
1063
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:32,000
I knew it was forbidden,
1064
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:33,880
even dangerous.
1065
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:36,560
And yet it didn’t
feel like that.
1066
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:39,520
It felt so light,
1067
01:18:41,119 --> 01:18:42,840
so lighthearted.
1068
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,359
Then everything went dark
when Tomas killed himself.
1069
01:18:51,159 --> 01:18:53,520
His death brought us back to reality,
1070
01:18:54,119 --> 01:18:57,239
grounded us and reminded us
of the regime we lived under.
1071
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:01,880
It was dark. Difficult and dark.
1072
01:19:06,039 --> 01:19:07,960
And yet it bonded us further.
1073
01:19:09,159 --> 01:19:12,239
Beyond our initial passion,
we bonded as friends.
1074
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:15,680
We bonded as family, sharing
a painful loss together.
1075
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:22,520
And when you made the decision to
join me and move to Lithuania,
1076
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:25,560
I knew it was the right decision.
1077
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:31,119
I’m grateful that
you saw it that way.
1078
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:34,279
Grateful that you found the
courage not to look back,
1079
01:19:35,159 --> 01:19:38,880
to make a life together in a
country new and foreign to you.
1080
01:19:41,199 --> 01:19:43,520
I was inspired by your bravery.
1081
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:47,319
Our love was like the
fresh air of freedom.
1082
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:51,279
A promise of freedom
yet to come.
1083
01:19:56,359 --> 01:19:58,760
Dima,
1084
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:02,239
I’m sorry for all the hurt I
caused you through my actions.
1085
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:06,239
I apologize.
1086
01:20:08,239 --> 01:20:09,680
I did abandon you.
1087
01:20:11,239 --> 01:20:13,439
And I did lie to
you in Lithuania.
1088
01:20:14,119 --> 01:20:16,239
I already knew I
would leave you.
1089
01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:19,920
It was terrible.
1090
01:20:22,239 --> 01:20:24,600
I am so sorry about
what I’ve done.
1091
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:27,479
There is no excuse.
1092
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:31,560
No political, social or
historical circumstances
1093
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:35,479
in the whole world can excuse
the horrible things I did to you.
1094
01:20:37,159 --> 01:20:39,079
I won the lottery
1095
01:20:39,379 --> 01:20:41,660
and I threw away
the winning ticket.
1096
01:20:45,119 --> 01:20:48,479
You’ve got to give me
another chance, Dima,
1097
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:50,880
because I still love you,
1098
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:53,800
and I will never
leave you again.
1099
01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:58,960
Stay just a little
after midnight.
1100
01:21:01,359 --> 01:21:04,701
Stay for another 30 years
1101
01:21:05,201 --> 01:21:07,179
or until the day we die.
1102
01:21:34,980 --> 01:21:37,000
You’re a good writer.
1103
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:35,560
I missed my flight.
80554
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