Original subtitles

[piano music playing]

[applause]

[man] For the best song, the winner is...

The winners are Richard M. Sherman and Robert B. Sherman

- for Chim Chim Cher-ee. - [audience cheering]

[orchestra plays Chim Chim Cheree]

All you can say is, Supercalifragilistic...

- EXpia/idocious! - [crowd laughing]

J‘ Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

J‘ Even though the sound of it is something quite atrocious

J‘ If you say it loud enough you'll always sound precocious

J‘ Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

So many people know their songs,

but not many people really know the boys.

J‘ Chim chiminy, chim chiminy Chim chim cheree

J‘ When you're with a sweep you're in glad company

Mary Poppins has to be one of the most beloved movies ever made.

It would not have been half the picture it is without the music in it.

J‘ Let's get together Yeah, yeah, yeah

J‘ Why don't you and I combine

J‘ Let's get together What do you say?

J‘ We could have a swingin' time

You cannot forget a Sherman Brothers song for your entire life.

J‘ I wanna be like you

J‘ I wanna walk like you Talk like you

I remember the songs more than I remember the movie itself.

J‘ The wonderful thing about Tiggers ls Tiggers are wonderful things

J‘ Their tops are made out of rubber Their bottoms are made out of springs

J‘ They're bouncy, trouncy flouncy, pouncy

J‘ Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun!

J‘ But the most wonderful thing about Tiggers is I'm the only one!

So many memorable tunes and songs

and moments that touch your heart.

J‘ I'm just a little black rain cloud

J‘ Hovering under the honey tree

[woman] These are the people who wrote every song

that every child has grown up with.

J‘ In the tiki, tiki tiki, tiki, tiki room

J‘ In the tiki, tiki tiki, tiki, tiki room

J‘ All the birds sing words And the flowers croon

J‘ In the tiki, tiki tiki, tiki, tiki room

With modern media, television, movies and Disneyland,

they just were in this extraordinary position to have a gigantic impact.

J‘ You walked out of my dreams and into my arms

J‘ Now you're my angel divine

J‘ You're sixteen So beautiful

J‘ And you're mine

J‘ Toot Sweets

J‘ Toot Sweets

J‘ A bon-bon to blow on at last has been found

Can you believe the output of those two gentlemen?

[chuckling] All these great, great songs.

J‘ Bang bang chitty chitty bang bang

J‘ Our fine four fendered friend

J‘ Chitty chitty bang bang Chitty chitty bang bang

J‘ Fine four fendered Chitty chitty friend J‘

[man] I'd never be the success that I am

if he wasn't the success that he is. Because we did it together.

[man 2] We had no sibling rivalry when it came to writing.

I didn't pull away from him. He pulled away from me.

The hardest part was...

I don't want...

- l'm Gregg Sherman. l'm Dick's son. - l'm Bob Sherman's son, Jeff.

I met my cousin, Gregg, four years ago at a Sherman Brothers event.

It was the opening of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, 2002.

His family is sitting all the way to one side of the theater,

and my family was sitting all the way to the other side of the theater.

[G. Sherman] After the performance, Jeff and I spoke all night.

It was the first time we'd talked in almost 40 years.

[J. Sherman] I never saw him, I never talked to him,

and we lived seven blocks apart.

Here were two men that devoted their careers

to writing family entertainment music,

and yet, neither one of them could get their families together.

[J. Sherman] My father and his brother, Dick, worked closely for over 50 years,

yet there was a lot of animosity between the two brothers.

[G. Sherman] l was told, "When you're older, you'll understand.

It's better this way."

And I got older and I still had no idea why.

[J. Sherman] So we tried to figure it out.

[J‘ Chim Chim Cheree plays]

Bob and l are two and a half years

and about five eons apart.

[chuckling] We are different people.

[J. Sherman] Dad, since you moved to London, do you miss Los Angeles?

I don't miss it at all. [chuckles]

I really don't.

[Richard] Funny thing about brothers,

you don't forget that relationship, no matter how old you get.

I'm still the kid brother.

[J‘ A Spoonful of Sugar plays]

[J. Sherman] I'm gonna ask basic questions to start, OK?

How's the sound? Can you hear him?

- OK, good. Hi, Dad. - Howdy.

Good to see you.

- Good morning. - Good morning.

- Hi. - Ready to take a journey backwards?

[Richard] This is gonna be wonderful.

I've never set foot inside the house since 1940.

We had a company called Alley Productions.

That was when we were little boys.

We got bawled out by the folks

because we had taken this newly-painted garage...

[Robert] We had a pot full of blue paint, and we wrote "Alley Productions"

and it dripped.

We had two sawhorses and planks.

And we used to put on plays.

[Richard] Bob was the director/producer/writer,

and l was the performer. I would be the star.

One thing I wrote was Avaron. He was this strange guy from outer space.

I am Avaron, the soul searcher, looking for an honest soul.

Bob did not approve when I did my own variations.

He did whatever he wanted to do.

The kids'd just sit on the ground here?

No, we had stools for them. This was a high-class operation.

[J. Sherman] Was there any business aspect to the Alley Playhouse?

We used to charge one or two cents. Dick let all his friends in.

If they didn't have pennies, he'd let them in anyway.

[Richard] Bob didn't like that. He said, "No, they gotta pay to see the show."

And Mom and Dad'd always stand in the back, like this, watching us.

And they never made us un-paint the door.

We were a very close-knit family.

We used to have a slogan: "Always together, always one."

They loved me. They loved him.

l was Bobby-boy. He was Dicky-boy.

[Robert] Dad was a tremendous kite-maker.

And he used to take us out on weekends and buy string and buy paper

and mucilage, and he'd make these marvelous kites that would fly forever.

Kids would gather around and he'd give them kites.

- He mended it! - It's wonderful!

However did you manage it?

J‘ With tuppence for paper and strings

J‘ You can have your own set of wings

J‘ With your feet on the ground you're a bird in flight

J‘ With your fist holding tight to the string of your kite

J‘ Ohh... Ohh... Ohh...

J‘ Let's go fly a kite

On Sundays, Grampa Al would come to the house

and he'd give me a piano lesson.

When the wind would start blowing, he'd just sort of point to the door

and land my whole family would run across the street

to this little round park, and we'd make and fly kites.

I remember, in the early days, Gregg's family and my family would

do this all together. And those were great times.

[Richard] My father was born in a little town outside of Kiev.

And in the year 1909, the Sherman family immigrated from the old country

to America.

[J. Sherman] As a young man, Grandpa Al got a job as a mood music pianist

for silent motion pictures at Biograph Studios in the Bronx.

That's where he met Rose Dancis.

[J‘ Needle in a Haystack plays]

My mother, she was an actress. She was in silent films.

She was a lovely lady.

[man] Music and the entire show business was really centered in New York City.

The Brill Building at Tin Pan Alley,

that's where all the songwriters gathered and plugged their records

and got record deals.

Al Sherman was a Tin Pan Alley songwriter.

[up-tempo music playing]

[Osborne] You had to be at the top of your game,

because if you didn't get the job, somebody else'd win it.

Well, sorry, I've gotta have something with snap.

[J. Sherman] Al had his first big hits, composing bright, optimistic songs

during the Great Depression.

Many were recorded by Vaudeville stars who were moving into the talkies.

Al Jolson, Helen Kane, Rudy Vallee and Eddie Cantor.

My Dad, Jerry Stiller, would go around doing:

J‘ Potatoes are cheaper, tomatoes...

I don't even know what this means, but apparently, Eddie Cantor did this.

[Stiller laughing]

J‘ Now's the time to fall in love

J‘ Now's the time to fall in love

What we recognize as the American sound...

...so much of it came from people like Aaron Copland

or George Gershwin.

Similarly, Al Sherman. Interestingly enough, all three of them,

were first generation children of immigrant Russian Jews.

Probably the least likely people you could imagine

that were able to manufacture what we all recognize

as being quintessentially American.

It's kind of a... In the history of music, it's a miracle.

[I Save Your Sorrow plays]

[Richard] During the 30s, there was a tremendous migration of pop songwriters

that were coming out to Hollywood.

And Dad was hired. Somebody wanted him.

We drove to California in an old Chevy.

[Richard] It was a long, tedious trip out to California.

I remember we had no air conditioning at the time, so it was blistering hot.

Just about the day he arrived in California,

the executive that had hired him died.

So here he was with his children and his wife and no job.

But even though we were going through tough times,

Dad always wrote optimistic songs.

J‘ I'm so happy

J‘ Happy go-lucky me

J‘ [just go my way

J‘ Living every day

The fortunes of songwriting was such that we had to move often

and I had to change friends, go to different schools. Terrible thing.

There's no paycheck at the end of the week.

It was just, maybe you'll have some song that makes some money or not.

J‘ Kissing in the sunlight Loving in the moonlight

- J‘ Having a wonderful time J‘ - [people cheering]

I met Bobby at El Rodeo School.

He was extremely observant. Gives an impression of shy.

Very interesting eyes that always were very alert, watching.

[Robert] Sam, he used to come to my house. We spent a lot of time together.

He's my best friend.

[Goldwyn] I remember my father once saying, "Friends, friends.

You're very lucky if you've got one friend,

and you happen to be very fortunate with that Sherman boy." [chuckles]

I remember Bob was very proud of his father.

And the first thing he did was to explain, "Well, he wrote a song."

And I said, "What was the song?"

And he said: J‘ You gotta be a football hero!

J‘ To get along with the beautiful girls

J‘ You've got to be a football hero

J‘ To get along with the beautiful girls J‘

[J. Sherman] Now, you and Dick as kids...

...were you close?

Not really. We were never close as kids.

Didn't know him that well.

We adored each other. I mean, I looked up to Bob. He was my hero.

[Robert] When I grew up, I wanted to be a writer.

Novels and plays. I used to write poetry.

About everything. Mother's Day, Father's Day, birthdays, weekdays...

Bob could recite a poem and everybody'd say, "Oh, isn't Bobby wonderful?

He's wonderful." And Dicky was sitting there, being a dweeb.

This was a very large cedar closet that was Bob's darkroom.

And heads would roll if you went in there when he was working,

- because it destroyed his... - He'd go in here with Sam Goldwyn?

Yeah. Bob and Sammy used to work in there all the time.

- [G. Sherman] And who was in this? - Well, let me see...

- [knob hits floor] - [laughing]

I'm up to my old tricks!

- You see that roof? - [G. Sherman] Yeah.

There was, like, an open area here.

- I would jump off the roof... - [G. Sherman laughing]

...just to create the illusion that I could fly.

I certainly did weird things like that. | used to jump out of trees a lot.

[J. Sherman] You got your accolades through your achievements.

- How did he get attention? - He had asthma.

[J. Sherman] He ended up in military school. How did that come about?

Well, there's various versions...

I think he tried to burn the school down.

- I didn't burn down the school! - [men laughing]

lwas playing with matches, I mean... That's not the same thing.

[J. Sherman] Did it change him?

He had a nice uniform.

[J‘ Follow Me, Boys! plays]

[Robert] We were in the war,

and I wanted to go and kill the Germans.

l prevailed upon my parents. They finally signed the permission.

So, at 17, l enlisted in the Army.

[J. Sherman] So you went overseas. Where did you go?

[Robert] From France to Belgium to Holland

to Luxemburg. And finally to Germany.

We were taking a little town called Bredenbeck.

The captain says, "Fix bayonets. And we'll charge."

We were shooting...

...and as l was crossing a field, I got hung up on some barbed wire.

By the time | untangled myself,

a machine pellet hit me in the knee.

And that's the last I remembered for a while.

He was really in bad shape when I saw him after the war.

Really, it was very upsetting.

I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe the shape he was in.

And l was worried he wasn't going to live very long.

The pain was just killing him. And look what a survivor he is.

I had just graduated from high school and Bob had gotten out of the Army.

[Robert] And I wrote some short stories, typed them up.

Sent them out to about 12 different magazines.

One day, on the hospital ward, they said,

"There's a telephone call for you."

"This is Grace Fischler of Coronet magazine."

She said, "We're gonna publish your stories.

One every month."

She said, "Henceforth, anything else you write, I'd like to see first."

I said I'd never met a person who used the word "henceforth."

We were both gonna go to Bard College, New York State.

And I had to declare a major for myself.

Bob wanted to go into literature. He knew that.

l was all of 17, in a terrible, terrible depression.

And I decided to take a walk, and as I walked, l was hearing music

and l was wondering, "Where is this music coming from?"

And I realized it was coming from my own head.

So I darted back to the apartment, where we had a little piano,

and started picking it out on the piano, this feeling I had.

I'd never done that before. Never.

And my father said, "What are you doing here? What is this?"

I said, "This is something I felt. I had to say it. This is what I feel."

He said, "You're gonna be a music major." That's when it happened.

[playing piano]

[Richard] Because of the war,

Bob and I both entered Bard College at the same time.

He was a war veteran, and l was just a wet-behind-the-ears kid.

The two and a half years we were separated by years became 10 years

because he had lived so much more than I had.

[Robert] I looked at things a lot differently.

So he went with his friends, I went with mine.

We didn't speak much to each other. That's the way it went.

[J. Sherman] Would you go home for Christmas break or anything?

[Robert] I stayed at school and it was boring because nobody was there.

Dick had a girlfriend. He went to their home.

[Richard] It was kind of a childhood romance, that type of thing.

We sort of got married. That's one of those things that we did.

It was a mistake, but a beautiful thing happened.

We had a little girl named Lynda.

Whom we both adored.

After school, the reality hit us. We came back to California.

And, all of a sudden, I had to make a living.

My grandfather had a very well-established dry cleaning business.

He wanted Dad to go into the business

because he knew it could support his wife and child.

[Richard] It was kind of terrifying, because I wanted to be a songwriter

more than anything in the world. I'd rather do that than breathe.

It would be a very unhappy marriage to keep going like this.

And, uh, it had to end.

And I had my clothing and a few articles that I owned

at the little apartment that I shared with my first wife.

I needed help to get the stuff out of there.

And I said, "Bob, you gotta help me. | just can't do this by myself."

[J. Sherman] You remember having to go to his then-wife's place

and getting his stuff and helping him move out?

I don't remember.

[Richard] It was a very embarrassing thing for him to go through this,

but he said, "OK, I'll do it. I'll do it for you."

He said, "You owe me, kid." I said, "I know, Bob. I owe you."

And he collected one day on that one.

J‘ Just when you're sure of a dream that you planned

J‘ That's when the scenery changes

J‘ It changes

We both didn't necessarily want to be songwriters.

What I wanted to be was a great symphonic composer. And Bob...

I wanted to write the great American novel.

- He was determined. - Or at least a Californian novel.

After graduation from college, we both set about to do that.

l was writing my great symphonic sketches,

and Bob was writing chapter after chapter

of the most boring drivel you've ever read in your life.

And I'd say that about the music l was writing, too.

Because I don't want to just single you out for achievement.

[people laughing]

- But one day our dad... - It was good punctuation, though.

[J. Sherman] There's something I never completely understood.

You guys were very different, lived different lives, had different friends,

but you still chose to live together. Why was that?

It was economically good because our folks were giving us the money.

[Richard] Bob and I took a little apartment over a cleaning store.

[man] Dick always all his papers and everything all set up

on the ironing board. I don't think they could afford a desk at that point.

And the lady next door, who was upstairs, was deaf.

So I could play the piano all I wanted, and Bob could pound on his typewriter

as much as he wanted. One day, our dad came up to our little apartment.

He said, "I'll bet you two guys couldn't pool your talents

and come up with a song that some kid would give up his lunch money to buy."

Bob and I both kind of looked at each other and said, "We could do something."

So we tried it. And it wasn't easy. It was very difficult.

[Richard] Dad used to say, "The three S's.

Keep it singable, simple and sincere."

- And original. - [Robert] He was the greatest teacher.

Finally, after about three or four months, he said,

"You got a hook here in this one idea."

And it was called, Gold Can Buy Anything But Love.

[Robert] He pointed us in the direction of Hollywood and Vine.

He said, "There are a lot of publishers out there.

Now you go play 'em for them."

[Richard] Finally, one publisher said, "I think it's a pretty good song."

We were overjoyed because Gene Autry had recorded it,

and he was the number one country western singer of the day.

[man on radio] Now, here's our newest Columbia recording

that we think is gonna be a big hit.

[Robert] People on Vine Street were congratulating us.

They heard it on the radio and said,

"How does it feel having a hit for your first time out?"

And we said, "We don't know yet."

One day we heard an announcer on the station saying,

"And now we're gonna hear Gene Autry's smashing hit, breaking all records..."

And we were ready to congratulate ourselves...

We started spending the money, mentally.

President Truman had recalled General MacArthur

and had asked him to resign.

And MacArthur made a speech and he concluded his speech when he said,

"I remember the old barracks room ballad..."

...that old soldiers never die.

They just fade away.

[Richard] And Mr. Autry decided to record it that same day.

Our song was called off the presses. It never saw the light of day again.

And that was the end of our careers as songwriters, we felt.

By some amazing miracle, our father seemed to know

we were gonna be charging into Hollywood to speak to our publisher.

He cut us off at the pass. He says, "I know what you're thinking.

But if you can't learn to take a curve in this business, get out of it."

J‘ Dress it up two three four

J‘ By the ranks or single file

J‘ Over every jungle mile

[Richard] l was gonna be drafted, and I joined the Army Reserve.

[J. Sherman] He never saw any kind of action?

Never killed anybody. He started conducting the band.

I never fired a shot in anger. I shot my mouth off a lot. [laughs]

[man] Wipe off that silly grin, soldier. This is the Army.

[man] I met the Sherman brothers, kind of collectively,

back in the very early '50s.

All of our friends were struggling artistes, if you will.

We had, practically every week, our pals over and we'd run pictures.

Bob was there and Joyce was there, but they didn't come together.

They just met there.

[Robert] She was an airline stewardess.

l was strucken with her.

She was gorgeous.

Slim, suntanned...

I called her and asked her if she'd like to go to a movie.

I couldn't look at the movie. I kept looking at her.

l was nuts about her. | asked her to marry me.

- [J. Sherman] On your first date? - Yeah.

And she called Wisconsin, said, "I met a real great guy."

[J‘ Johnny Mathis: Things I Might Have Been]

It was simple.

who is now Elizabeth Sherman.

I came back from a trip and who was there?

The girl that I wanted to look up in the first place,

that I had met a few weeks earlier.

[woman] He asked me if I'd like to hear a record he had just gotten.

And I said, "Oh, sure! What did you buy?"

And he said, "Well, I didn't exactly buy it."

And I said, "What did you do, steal it?"

Because he had told me he was in the insurance business.

And l was losing interest quickly, because I thought

he was too excited to see me and he lies.

Elizabeth taught me how to laugh at things.

Changed my whole perception of life.

[J‘ Louis Armstrong: 'Bout Time]

lthink l'm instrumental in being Cupid

on those two things for just having a nice place for people to meet.

[Robert] I got one room in a building in Hollywood.

And I let everybody know that l was publishing.

[J. Sherman] What was the name of your publishing company?

Music World Corporation.

Bob had the determination to publish songs on his own.

[Robert] I wrote with different partners. One of them was Bob Roberts.

[Richard] They were having a bit of success together,

and l was doing my own thing, writing on my own.

I didn't want to write with him. We were going in our own directions.

[Richard] He did say, "Come up if you ever have a good song

you think you have, and nobody else wants it. Bring it over.

Maybe I can do something with it."

One day, l was driving down Santa Monica Boulevard and there was a sign

and it said, "The Tall Girls Shop." "Tall." Ooh, that's a good word, tall.

Bob Roberts and I had the start of a song called

Chalk on the Sidewalk Writing on the Wall,

and Dick came in and he joined us.

J‘ Chalk on the sidewalk

J‘ Writing on the wall

J‘ Everybody knows it

J‘ I love Paul

J‘ Tall Paul

J‘ Tall Paul

J‘ Tall Paul

J‘ He's my all

Walt Disney company, they were looking for a song for Annette Funicello,

who was a big star of the Mouseketeers.

We always called her our lucky star, because she started it.

[Robert] It became a smash.

Bob Roberts was not too happy about the fact that the kid brother

was coming into the thing. And we wrote a lot of songs, the three of us.

At one point, there was a big fight.

Roberts said, "I think I should add more bass."

- And Dick said, "No." - All of a sudden, he lost his cool.

He threw a pair of scissors at me across this sound booth.

Whap! Like that. I pulled out of the way, thank God.

Bob got up, grabbed him and shoved him out the door.

And I said, "I never want to see that guy again."

And from then on, Dick and I wrote together.

[J‘ Johnny Burnette: You're Sixteen]

[J. Sherman] Dad and Dick were occasionally landing songs

and getting some air play,

but their families were growing and it was tough to make ends meet.

We started writing more songs for Annette. She recorded about 15 of them.

[man] Take three. Baker. Uh... Pineapple Princess.

And you guys knew how nervous I was.

And you were so supportive.

You see, the trick was... You know what Tutti said to me?

He said, "Anytime she looks worried about the song,

you sing it for her. She knows she can sing it better than you."

[J‘ Annette Funicello: Pineapple Princess]

[Richard] Bob had gotten a phone call from the musical director

of the Disney Record company.

He said, "The studio wants to put Annette into a film

and they need a song for her. Would you guys like to take a shot at writing it?"

I said, "You're kidding! Really?" He said, "Yes. They need it right away."

So we drove to the studio. And there was a big fence.

There was a guard there.

[Richard] We thought we'd have to pay to park. We had about 35 cents between us.

[Robert] So we parked outside the studio. We walked in.

Jimmy Johnson, the head of the music company at Disney,

said, "Walt wants to hear it."

"Walt Disney?"

So Bob and l, terrified, walked into Walt Disney's office.

[Robert] And he started talking about a picture

with two girls that were sisters.

They were twins, but they had never met. They meet in summer camp.

We let him go for a while. We said, "But, Mr. Disney..."

[Richard] We didn't let him go. This was Walt Disney talking to us.

You don't interrupt a man like that.

But, at a certain point, Bob got the courage to say,

"Mr. Disney, we came here to play you a song for The Horsemasters. "

And we played the first song we ever wrote for a Disney production

and that was a song called Strummin' Song.

J‘ So ho-hum Let's sing a strummin' song

J‘ Ho-hum Let's sing a strummin' song

J‘ Ho-hum One that we can hum along

J‘ Ho-hum One that we can hum along

He listened to the song, and he said, "Yeah, that'll work."

And we got kind of confused. What do you mean, it'll work?

It's a good song.

We didn't realize that when he said, "lt'll work,"

he meant, "lt'll work."

[Disney] Walt, at first, was never quite satisfied with anything,

but he would drag you into doing something even better

than you thought you could.

[Richard] He said, "Listen, I wasted a lot of time on this other thing,

so why don't you get 'em a script and maybe we can

come up with a song for this picture."

J‘ Let's get together Yeah, yeah, yeah

J‘ Why don't you and I combine

J‘ Let's get together What do you say?

J‘ We could have a swingin' time

J‘ And though we haven't got a lot

J‘ We could be sharing all we 've got

J‘ Together

Bob and Dick were just always warm and sweet and loving.

I can remember them sitting there playing and laughing.

J‘ Nothing could be greater Say, hey alligator

You know, I felt that I knew them of old.

J‘ Yeah, yeah, yeah J‘

One propitious day, Walt took this little red book off his shelf

and he handed it to us.

[Robert] The book was called Mary Poppins.

He said, "You know what a nanny is?" We said, "Yeah, a goat."

"No, no, it's a British nursemaid."

"Oh, OK."

This time, he just said, "Tell me what you think."

We knew he was interested in us as writers, as thinkers.

We found six chapters in her books that we could put together

and make a story.

[Richard] We'd just written about 16 bars of various songs.

Two weeks later, we brazenly asked, "Could we have half an hour

of Walt's very valuable time?"

And we stayed there for about two and a half hours.

And he was as enthusiastic as we were with what we were doing.

We circled the six chapters. He smiled.

He turned around and got his copy, opened it to the index.

The same six chapters were underlined. It was a miracle.

He said, "Play me that bird lady song again."

J‘ Their young ones are hungry Their nests are so bare

J‘ All it takes is tuppence from you

He looked at us, and he said, "That's what it's all about, isn't it?"

He said, "You guys like to write, don't you?"

And we said, "Yes, sir."

"I would like you to come here...

...and work for me."

We said, "We'd love to work for the studio!" And...

[sighing]

...that was the day. That was the day.

I think, probably, I'm the only person who was really close to both of them,

who has ever been really close to both of them, professionally or personally,

and was close to both their wives.

AJ Carothers, one of Walt's favorite writers,

became one of ours. We were very close.

Bob loved AJ, too and his wife, Caryl. We just kind of got along.

Everybody was kind of fond of each other then.

[bell ringing]

[Carothers] Working with them in the 60s,

we were happily ensconced at Disney.

We were all three very happy there.

Walt Disney gave them a home.

That was very unusual for songwriters.

[Carothers] They were the only songwriters Walt had under contract.

[Disney] The Sherman brothers are not only very talented,

but very cooperative.

They go for the team play.

That's the way we work here, it's a team.

They never knew what the next assignment was gonna be,

but there would be one just around the corner.

J‘ Color

J‘ Color

J‘ Color

[man] Walt Disney presents...

J‘ The Wonderful World of Color J‘

We started getting paid by the Disney company.

It was marvelous.

It was the second week that we were coming out of the studio.

We had gotten our first $500 check, each.

They're paying us money to write songs. Couldn't believe it.

It was exciting. Best moment that we ever had.

Bob's car was in front of mine, and he held up five like that.

And I held up five and l waved back at him, like that.

And that was our hand signal.

As the weeks went on, it was 600.

And we were just reveling in our relationships

with the studio and with Walt.

[Disney] Walt always knew that music was about story.

Walt was all about story. He was a great storyteller.

And both Bob and Dick were great storytellers, too.

The Sherman brothers, for more or less the first time,

brought a musical theater sensibility to screen projects.

That was, I think, very influential.

We had a very definite philosophy.

We don't start anything without an idea.

The idea came first. Then the music and the lyrics followed.

And we'd both throw lines to each other, back and forth.

We sort of "Shermanized," we liked to call it.

So many people pigeon-holed their songs as children's songs.

I didn't write kiddy songs, I wrote songs for kiddies.

These are lyrics which have words in them that are not in common currency

or they're words that stretch the imagination.

J‘ Fortuosity

J‘ That's me own word

J‘ Higitus figitus Migitus mum

J‘ Prestidigitonium

J‘ A Heffalump a woozle is very confusal

J‘ Substitutiary locomotion come to me

J‘ I'll have fun with you You'll have fun with me

J‘ Fundamental Friendependability

We didn't want to write down to kids. We wanted them to learn new words.

"Precocious" and "supercalifragilisticexpialidocious".

[Carothers] We all had offices in the animation building

and I heard these songs over and over again 'cause I was in the same corridor.

[Richard] J‘ The biggest word you ever heard, and this is how it goes

I blew it. I blew it right there. I blew those words, the notes.

Dick tends to not be very soft-pedaled

when he's singing his songs.

Once in a while, Bob and I would be screaming some lyric or something,

and then a little rustle would come under the door.

[Robert] A wonderful cartoonist named Roy Williams

and he used to, whatever went on in our office, write what he heard.

J‘ If you say it loud enough you'll always sound precocious

J‘ Supercalifragilisticexpialidociousl J‘

- [Richard] That better? - [piano playing, faltering]

- [banging keys] - Oh!

- [piano playing, faltering] - Oh!

[piano playing]

- [Richard] That was the best one. - My brother Dick was spontaneous.

| always was slow and plodding.

He was in there. And it was exciting.

It's great to work with a guy who's a spark plug.

[Richard] When we'd come up with a good song idea,

there were no two happier guys in the world.

We just jumped for joy. It was just fantastic. And we knew it.

We'd both look at each other and say, "Yeah, we did it!"

They had the reputation, which was largely true, I think,

that they could write a song over lunch hour

and bring the next song back to you.

When something is so ingrained in the culture,

people don't even have a connection with the fact

that two guys sat in a room and had to actually work and create that.

l was in their office, and Richard, Dick,

would sitjust playing the melody,

really loud, and just shouting out lyrics.

Anything that came into his head.

J‘ Put it in the album The family album

J‘ Put it in the album The family album

[Gordon] Robert was sitting at his big desk, listening.

And every couple of minutes, as Dick just went on, just shouting things,

Robert would raise his hand, like this.

Dick would stop, mid-chord, and Robert would say one thought.

Our friends will love it.

J‘ Your friends will love it

- What can you rhyme with "love it"? - "Put the date above it."

And Dick would go, "Oh, my God!"

And boom, go right in and sing the perfect line.

J‘ All your friends 'll love it Your family album

J‘ Put the dates above it The family album

Dick was always very easy to goof around with.

We always thought of him as Mr. Sunshine.

Bob was much more retiring, and I didn't entirely know

whether that was because he was shy

or whether there was a sort of dark aspect to him

that countered Dick's sunshine.

Clearly, one might say, "Oh, gee, Bob's moody."

I think that is so skimming the surface

of one of the most complex people I've ever met.

Bob is a little more Feed the Birds, I think.

And Dick is a little more Supercalifragilistic.

[Gordon] The closest analogy that I've ever been able to come up with

is John Lennon and Paul McCartney.

And if you think of Paul McCartney, bubbly, effusive, very much like Dick.

You think of John Lennon, a little more sardonic, a little darker, like Bob.

They would keep the songs from being too sugary

and giving itjust that little bit of adult twist to it.

J‘ Up where the smoke is all billered and curled

J‘ Between pavement and stars is the chimney sweep world

[Lasseter] What the Sherman brothers did with Walt Disney...

They made these perfect moments

where dialogue, visuals, animation, whatever

cannot communicate an emotion as good as that Sherman Brothers song.

J‘ On the rooftops of London

J‘ Coo, whata sightJ‘

As a filmmaker now, I don't forget those moments.

A man has dreams of walking with giants.

To carve his niche in the edifice of time.

[Robert] Walt kept putting off Mary Poppins.

Finally, I learned that he didn't have the rights.

We had poured ourselves for two and a half years into this project,

dreaming of it and thinking about it.

There was a woman who wrote the basic stories, called Mrs. Travers.

Pamela Travers.

I didn't know until later, but I heard she had to agree to selling the stuff

that he put on with Bob and Dick and Don DaGradi and Bill Walsh.

This enormous show for her.

These are two giant boats, titanic vessels,

heading on a collision course.

And somewhere in between, is a little raft

on which are sitting Bob and Dick Sherman.

[audio recording plays]

[Travers] No, no, no. No, no, don 't make it like that.

She was a very feisty...

...ramrod-straight old lady.

She didn't really hit it off with children, oddly enough,

for somebody who was so famous in the world of children's literature.

She was a witch.

Book freaked me out as a kid.

She breaks her fingers off, and it's gingerbread...

She's kind of unpleasant.

[Travers]l beg of you not to do that. You're going to spoil the whole thing.

[Robert] She didn't like any of the ideas we had from her book.

None of them.

She didn't appreciate the genius of what they had come up with.

Walt said, "Listen, l have a lot of work to do."

He just got up and left the room.

I'd give anything to be there with you, but this seems to be one of those times

l'm tied down here at the studio night and day.

[Travers] Now look, I do not think this is right.

You had to say the right thing and try to press the right buttons with her.

[Richard] ...we want to make this a great picture,

we want to do justice in some way to the magic

of this wonderful pile of books here. We love Mary Poppins, we really do.

[Travers] Thank you.

[Disney] She grudgingly, finally, came through.

They made the movie that they saw fit to make.

Michael, look!

It's her. It's the person.

l was very daunted by the thought of doing my first movie ever.

Those songs were so compelling and that's what made me feel,

"Yeah, if I was given half a chance, I would be able to cut it."

[Van Dyke] Bob and Dick Sherman, they played the songs for me.

I've never been so impressed or enthralled in my life.

I said, "Oh, God, I've got to be part of this."

J‘ But through the eyes of love

J‘ You can start

[\Nalton] One of the songs that Dick and Bob really loved

when they originally played us the score

was, I think, called The Eyes ofLove.

Given how incredibly positive Julie responded to the score,

they were really kind of startled when she said,

She thought it was too direct.

It was not oblique enough for Mary Poppins's character.

This was one of the most important numbers to us,

and we were kind of heartbroken.

Walt said, "Try to write something that would be more in keeping

with the way Mary Poppins would feel."

This one day, I came home from school

and all the shades were closed in this room he was sitting in.

He was sitting in a chair. I didn't see him right away,

it was so dark in the house. He asked me, "How was your day?"

And I said I had the Salk vaccine at school.

He said, "You let somebody give you a shot? Did it hurt?"

I said, "No, they took out this plastic spoon and put a sugar cube on it

and put the medicine in it and you just ate it."

And I saw my dad go like this.

And with that, I said, "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down."

And I couldn't wait to tell Dick.

The next morning, I said, "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down!"

He said, "What?"

He said, "You nuts?"

J‘ For a spoonful of sugar

J‘ Helps the medicine go down

J‘ The medicine go down Medicine go down

J‘ Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down

J‘ In a most delightful way J‘

[Disney] Both of the boys, Bob and Dick, were there all the time

because they were so involved in it and so in love with it.

Richard and Bob were right down at eye level with me

and we were all in this team together.

[Jane] J‘ Never be cross or cruel

J‘ Never give us castor oil or gruel J‘

Richard's always reminded me of the little errant penguin,

runs onto the screen, madly in love with Mary and bumping into everything.

That's Richard Sherman.

Robert Sherman, devastatingly handsome, very sartorial,

trying to describe to we kids what the scene was about.

l was at a party the other night and a 22-month-old girl,

that tall, walked up, and she said, "Hi, Burt!"

And I said, "Hi, what's your name?" She said, "Mary Poppins."

She stepped on my lap and we sang the entire song...

J‘ It's a jolly holiday with Mary...

J‘ Mary makes your heart so light

You haven't changed a bit, have you?

J‘ When the day is gray and ordinary

J‘ Mary makes the sun shine bright

Oh, honestly.

That's the third, maybe the fourth generation of children

that are charmed by that movie.

It's a great tribute to the Sherman brothers.

We kind of stepped into the big time in a real serious way with Mary Poppins.

[man] Hollywood goes to a World Premiere!

It was a real live-action movie. My goodness.

Look at Disney doing this sort of thing.

[man] Here in the fon/I/ard court of the renowned Grauman's Chinese Theatre,

all of Hollywood awaits the world premiere of Walt Disney's

- Mary Poppins! - [blows whistle]

[man] It appears that Walt Disney is arriving!

Walt's last premiere was in 1937 for Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.

[Disney] Bob and Dick and wives were in a limo together,

creeping up to the front of the Chinese Theatre with the window down.

Some little girl poked her head in the window and looked at them,

looking for celebrities, and said, "They're not anybody."

And Joyce Sherman goes, "We are too somebody!" [laughing]

| always loved that story.

Of course, by the time the evening was over, indeed they were somebody.

[Robert] They had the parking lot tented with parties

and we're coming out of the theater and Mrs. Travers was coming out.

She didn't look too happy. She really was not too pleased.

Said, "Well, I guess we'll have to roll our sleeves up and get it straight."

He looked at her and said, "Pamela, the ship has sailed."

The period, 1963 to '69, basically,

Walt brought songs and music into the parks for the first time.

The first one was Tiki Room which Bob and Dick wrote.

[Lasseter] The Sherman Brothers' music,

within the amusement park rides, it takes you to those places.

You forget about the long line you just stood in.

You are taken away.

J‘ Welcome to our tropical hide-a-wa y

J‘ You lucky people, you

J‘ If we weren't in the show starting right away

J‘ We'd be in the audience, too

[Richard] We were given the assignment to do a song

for the UNICEF pavilion at the World's Fair.

Which was called "UNICEF Salutes the Children of the World."

The first time I met Dick and Bob, we had set up a test

of how we were going to do the music from different countries.

And it was a mess.

It sounded like a million kids all singing different things.

It was a cacophony.

Walt says, "Can you write one song that'll cover everything?"

We said, "Well, we'll try."

J‘ It's a world of laughter A world of tears

J‘ It's a world of hopes...

People think it's a little novelty. It's a prayer for peace.

J‘ That it's time we're aware

J‘ It's a small world after all

We have to learn to live together and respect each other.

Or we're gonna blow each other up.

| get so moved in the boat,

going through that and seeing all the children.

There is something that is so wonderfully moving,

and the song always gets to me.

It's like this life-changing experience as a child,

when you go on it, because it's sort of scary but not.

You do spend about five minutes in there

where that thing is cycling around endlessly in your ear.

Once it's in your head, it's just there forever.

In a good way.

It's a lovely song,

the first... four or five thousand times you hear it.

And then itjust, like, drills into your brain.

You wake up in the middle of the night and it's still going.

- J‘ It's a small world after all... - No, no! Anything but that.

l have this image of both your fathers sitting there, like...

[cackling]

It's probably the most important thing that's in any of the parks.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if people acted like the words of that song?

In 1964, we all flew together on Walt's private plane to the World's Fair,

where they were introducing It's a Small World.

And when the ride was about a third of the way through,

the tape broke. And the four of us stood up and sang It's a Small World

through the rest of the ride. Which was really fun. We had a good time together.

[Osborne] Jerry Lewis said that when he and Dean Martin started out as a team,

that Lou Costello gave them advice that he had gotten from Stan Laurel.

And that was: Never let your wives socialize with each other.

Where you get four people involved in it, then personalities take over

and it doesn't work.

[Carothers] The wives were very different, one from the other.

As were their husbands.

So, I think had they not been brothers, they are two couples

that never would have had a relationship.

Because I don't think they had enough in common.

Dick has never changed from the day they were above the cleaning shop.

Very careful about where his money is spent.

Probably has a big coffee can in his backyard full of gold.

Dad is probably the most generous...

...human being on the planet.

I liked Laurie Partridge. I wanted a keyboard

so he got me this entire huge church organ

and I think I played it eight times, total.

Bob would be more the businessman, and I would be more the other guy.

I would do things for nothing. Just for the fun of it.

Dick thought that Bob was extravagant and threw money around,

and Bob thought that Dick was...

...close-fisted and uptight.

So they were... Their lifestyles were different.

And so they didn't enjoy being together.

J‘ So there's a great big beautiful tomorrow

J‘ Shining at the end of every day

J‘ There's a great big beautiful tomorrow

J‘ Just a dream away J‘

Well, it sounds pretty good. In fact, that's just the right spirit.

Songwriters Dick and Bob Sherman of the Walt Disney Studio.

Bob and Dick wrote that as a tribute to Walt, about Walt's optimism.

Thanks, boys. Say goodbye to the folks.

Bye-bye.

[both] J‘ There's a great big beautiful tomorrow...

As I said, that's the spirit.

[Robert] Walt was a marvelous, creative person,

with a lot of imagination.

Like our dad.

[Richard] We were amazed to be nominated

because it was our first time out with a major picture.

[Robert] It was like we were walking on air.

[G. Sherman] What do you remember about the 1965 Oscars?

Well, ljust remember that we were all gorgeous.

- For best music score... - [woman sneezes]

Oh, God bless you.

The winners are Richard M. Sherman and Robert B. Sherman

for Mary Poppins!

- [audience applauding] - [orchestra plays Chim Chim Cheree]

We're so touched. We want to thank the inspiring Mr. Walt Disney,

- Mr. Bill Walsh... - Mr. Don DaGradi...

- lrwin Kostal, Bob Stevenson... - Julie Andrews.

- Dick Van Dyke. - Dick Van Dyke.

There are so many people connected with Mary Poppins,

I'm sure we left quite a lot of them out.

We'll stay up all night thinking...

Thank you, thank you, Academy, very much.

[Richard] We both won two Academy Awards, so we took pictures with Julie.

We posed with one of them behind our backs

so it wouldn't look like we were over-powering her.

[Robert] Overnight, every doorman, every maitre d',

every waiter knew our names.

The next day, we went to Walt's office to thank him.

We marched in with our four Oscars and we put 'em on his desk.

And he's working away on a script and he looks up and he said,

- "Well, boys..." - "...Congratulations.

You hit a home run."

"But remember, you had the bases loaded."

[Robert] "Now just try to get on base."

[J. Sherman] Mary Poppins was the breakout hit

all songwriters dreamed to have. The question always is: What's next?

J‘ Uh-huh, she loves a monkey's uncle Yeah, yeah

J‘ She loves a monkey's uncle Whoa, whoa

J‘ She loves a monkey's uncle

J‘ And the monkey's uncle 's ape for me

J‘ Love all his monkey shines Every day is Valentine 's

J‘ I love the monkey's uncle and the monkey's uncle 's ape for me

J‘ Ape for me J‘

J‘ Nose like a Geiger Oh, whata tiger

J‘ He's that darn cat

[Richard] When we were given this book, we couldn't get with it at all.

Kiddy stuff. We weren't very impressed.

l was their sort of resident Brit.

And, as a kid, a fanatical Pooh fan.

I think they're exaggerating, but they used to say my enthusiasm

for it had triggered a kind of creative release for them.

"Winnie the Pooh. He saved my life.

l was a tubby little kid. Winnie the Pooh was tubby, but he was wonderful."

J‘ When I up, down Touch the ground

J‘ It puts me in the mood

J‘ Up, down Touch the ground

J‘ In the mood

J‘ For food

Bob, I remember, looked at me and he said,

"Deep in the Hundred Acre Wood, where Christopher Robin plays..."

I said, "Oh, my God! Don't stop!" And I said...

J‘ Deep in the Hundred Acre Wood

J‘ Where Christopher Robin plays

J‘ You'll find the enchanted neighborhood

J‘ Of Christopher's childhood days

- J‘ Winnie the Pooh - Pooh.

- J‘ Winnie the Pooh - Pooh.

J‘ Tubby little cubby all stuffed with fluff

J‘ He's Winnie the Pooh Winnie the Pooh

J‘ Willy, nil/y, silly, old bear

[man] Just before I came to Disney, the AIDS crisis hit in New York.

And unbeknownst to me, Howard was ill.

In fact, most of the people l was working with were sick and dying.

All we could watch were these Disney animated features.

And I would just escape into them with my daughter on my lap.

I remember that the balm for my heart was actually Winnie the Pooh.

I'd be sitting, going, J‘ Winnie the Pooh

J‘ Winnie the Pooh

[Carothers] Walt would talk to them about a song

that he thought might be good for an upcoming project,

and Dick would go run to the piano and start playing something.

- And say, "How about this?" - [Richard] Bob was always thorough.

He called me "Fast and Wrong Dick." That was his nickname for me.

And sometimes I was wrong, I will admit.

- Sometimes I was right. - [Carothers] Bob really got annoyed

with the "I can have it for you in 10 minutes" thing.

At times, he just lost it.

[J. Sherman] How did you work with Uncle Dick?

Like brothers.

[J. Sherman] What would you do if you didn't like his ideas?

- I'd tell him so. - What would you say?

"lt stinks." [chuckles] And he'd say the same to me.

[man] My father, Mike Conner, was the Shermans' manager for 30 years.

He was also sort of their agent and lawyer,

and given the relationship, he was also the referee and the mediator.

- We argue quite a bit. - I'm gonna disagree with you on film.

They could argue about almost anything.

lt's akin to poetry.

But it has to be sung, so it really, truly isn't poetry in itself.

And almost at the drop of a hat...

But it telescopes in the space of time.

OK. You just sort of completely threw me,

because I didn't know if you were disagreeing with me.

- His question was... - This shouldn't be on the film.

A lot of my choice of lyricists is based on who I want to be in the room with.

lfl had to collaborate with one of my siblings... [chuckles]

It's sort of unthinkable.

And smile.

[man] The public perception of their happy partnership

and jovial sibling relationship was not true.

The crucible of creativity for these guys is conflict.

J‘ If you study you won't muddy...

J‘ If you study you won't muddy up...

I'm the proudest daughter.

It gives me the biggest thrill to see my father make the world so happy.

If my father loses his temper, the roof might come off.

He can be quite explosive and loud.

That's just an artist being an artist.

[Richard] I got angry about something,

and I remember once I pushed the piano away

and it came... Because I was like, "Oh, damn it."

And the piano went "clunk" on the floor.

That's it. I didn't kill anybody.

But these are things... We're brothers, we're human beings.

We break a piano or break a typewriter, and now you have computers.

You can't hurt a guy too much with a computer.

[G. Sherman] How did you deal with my dad's temper?

l dodged it as much as I could.

I didn't really acknowledge it.

Often, he would come home from work frustrated and angry with something

Dick had done or said that day. And he'd want to leave the team.

And my mother would instantly pull out this typewriting table,

put it in the middle of the room and say, "Go ahead, write your novel."

He'd write a poem or short story and those frustrations would subside.

Privately, Mom did more to keep the Sherman brothers together

than anyone ever knew.

As time went on,

and their relationship became more and more strained,

it was more difficult, of course, to work together.

[Richard] Walt was not happy with the first version of Jungle Book,

the way it was going.

And he decided to scrap practically everything

except one wonderful song by Terry Gilkyson, called The Bear Necessities,

- which everybody knows and loves. - [Robert] Walt called us in,

"I'd like you to Disnify it, have fun with the apes."

So we wrote I Wan'na Be Like You.

J‘ Now I'm the king of the swingers Oh, the jungle VIP

J‘ I've reached the top and had to stop and that's what's been botherin' me

[Robert] We figured Louis Prima would be the ideal character,

and so we went to Las Vegas

and played the song for Louis and the boys. They loved it.

We had Louis's band filmed

so the animators could pick up their movements.

It was ridiculous, but it was funny.

[both scatting]

[man] We could have Elton John come in here right now,

I promise, because he's done it for me,

and sing the entire song score to Jungle Book.

These songs are known by everybody.

J‘ Trust in me

J‘ Just in me

J‘ Shut your eyes

J‘ And trust in me

[Richard] Sometimes he'd actually not come in.

And I said he's not feeling well or something.

And, I don't know, it started happening like that.

Bob came to my office and told me that he was leaving.

That he wouldn't be around for a while.

He was worn out with everything.

And he was very depressed.

Profoundly depressed.

He didn't know where he was gonna go, but he was gonna be gone.

Bob said, "You gotta do this for me. I can't do this.

l have to have some clothes. I've gotta get out of here.

You're gonna have to help me. You're the only one who can do it for me."

And l was reluctant. I didn't want to do it.

But, I did. Because he's my brother.

[J. Sherman] Tensions had been mounting between Dick's family and ours.

For my mom, Dick showing up at our house to get Dad's clothes

was the last straw.

A lot of misunderstandings took place

because I was trying to be kind to my brother and help him.

Jeff, as a little boy, used to sit on my lap and I loved him.

He was a beautiful little boy. And we just had a simpatico.

It was fantastic. And I didn't see him after that.

[J. Sherman] A couple of days later, Dad was back,

and no one ever talked about it.

Bang, we just went... We'd see each other at events,

and we'd always keep a nice front in front of everybody.

Nobody ever suspected that Bob and I didn't see each other socially.

This is painful stuff. I don't know.

That's enough. I don't want to talk about that.

[J. Sherman] Do you have a favorite Sherman Brothers song?

- Yeah. - [J. Sherman] Which one?

Called On the Front Porch.

Beautiful little old-fashioned song.

J‘ Three creaky wooden chairs...

J‘ Those squeaky rocking chairs

J‘ The well-worn welcome mat

J‘ The lattice vines

J‘ The happy times

J‘ A!!! wanna do

J‘ When the day is through

J‘ ls linger here on the front porch

J‘ With you

J‘ Oh, how I love to linger here like this

J‘ Hold your hand and steal a kiss or two

J‘ On the front porch with you J‘

[Osborne] In the 60s was a time when the movie musical

was starting to fade out a bit in Hollywood.

| always thought of the Sherman brothers as these really great heroes

as long as there were musicals there.

But they were kind of the flag bearers alone.

The Happiest Millionaire was my first film.

It was an amazing, amazing entrance into movies,

with the Sherman brothers. The song is a scene in and of itself.

J‘ Then I'll know that l...

J‘ I'll know that l...

J‘ Reached into the sky

J‘ Reached to the sky

[both] J‘ I reached into the sky

J‘ And touched a star

[man] And the Shermans had that ability to write singable songs

that had this simplicity that let the performer shine.

[J. Sherman] What did Walt say to you

when you walked out of The Happiest Millionaire screening?

"Keep up the good work, boys."

And it was kind of strange, because he never said something like that.

And then he walked down the hall again.

[choking up] That's the last time lever saw him.

He had cancer. He was saying goodbye.

Walt dying happened pretty suddenly to most people.

I loved him very much.

[Sklar] Privately, with Dick and Bob,

he didn't mind showing that he was emotional.

And that was rare. We didn't see it.

[Robert] This was Walt Disney's office.

And often, on Fridays, he'd ask us to come down and talk with him.

Then he'd say... He'd look to me, and say, "Play it."

And I pretty much knew what he wanted.

He wanted to hear his favorite song.

After he was gone, I'd still come down on Friday afternoon

and play it for him.

J‘ Feed the birds

J‘ Tuppence a bag

J‘ Tuppence, tuppence

J‘ Tuppence a bag J‘

There was that feeling that the Daddy-genius was gone.

And a lot of people wondering what we're gonna do now without Daddy there.

Walt was, I call him uncle, but he was Daddy to an awful lot of people.

[Richard] Markedly, from the time Walt died, the phone stopped ringing.

Nothing came to us. We had no good assignments.

There was some hostility towards the Shermans from other folks at the studio.

Some thought that they were Walt's special boys.

It was like, um, we weren't needed anymore.

We felt like unnecessary cogs in the wheel.

Which was about the time I decided

it wasn't fun working there anymore and I left.

The phone rang one day and I thought it was gonna be an assignment.

It wasn't that at all. It was somebody saying,

"Have you turned in your timecards for this week?"

That was strange because that was something that never was done

in Walt's time.

After a while, we just decided we didn't want to stay there anymore.

And we left.

[Broccoli] My father had been producing the James Bond films.

He really wanted to make a film for us.

For us kids.

He used to say it was the happiest experience he ever had on a film.

Because he had a wonderful working relationship with the Shermans.

lt's ironic that so many times people say

it's another one of Disney's great pictures and it wasn't.

- It's actually Cubby Broccoli. - There was a prince of a man.

Whenever we'd write a song, we'd play it for him. He loved it.

[Broccoli] We lived in London and up on the kids' area there was a piano.

And I remember the two of them playing songs for my father on that piano.

They were like uncles.

They were really a major part of our growing up.

J‘ Me ol' bam-boo Me ol' bam-boo

J‘ You'd better never bother with me ol' bam-boo

J‘ You can have me hat or me bum-ber-shoo

J‘ But you'd better never bother with me ol' bam-boo

J‘ You'd better never bother with me ol' bam-boo! J‘

J‘ Someone to care for To be there for

J‘ [have you too...

That song is my favorite from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

That and Hushabye Mountain.

J‘ A gentle breeze

J‘ From Hushabye Mountain

J‘ Softly blows o'er lullaby bay

When we were doing the show of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang,

I would look around the audience

and I would see grown men crying.

J‘ So close your eyes

J‘ On Hushabye Mountain

J‘ Wave goodbye to cares of the day

[Van Dyke] They wrote something that is in a category by itself,

and will never been repeated by anyone.

Unless they do it.

J‘ Sail far away

J‘ From lullaby bay J‘

Goodnight.

I want every house on the square to be searched from top to bottom!

[Broccoli] When you look at the story of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang,

it's a very dark story and a lot of it has the overtones

of the second World War.

And particularly the Nazis and having the extermination of children.

There are children here somewhere!

I can smell them.

[J. Sherman] How do you think my dad's war experiences affected him?

Well, it has cast a shadow over his life.

I think that anyone that you hear of or speak to

who had visited any of the camps, they can never forget it.

l was the first American into the Dachau prison camp.

My squad and I walked in...

...and we saw the poor, faded prisoners.

And I had terrible experiences

looking at corpses and ovens.

It was enough nightmares for the rest of my life.

l relaxed. Had a nervous breakdown.

In 1943, l was 17.

I didn't know anything about anything.

But I learned.

He never talked too much about it.

He didn't talk about it. I don't think he wanted to.

[Robert] I've been painting for many years.

Even before I was a songwriter. I love painting.

I had to get rid of the thoughts of Dachau,

and the thoughts of explosions and pain and hospitals.

Beautiful things helped clean my soul...

...of the horror.

But the horror lasted a long time.

At that time, I didn't realize, and I don't think any of us did,

what his personal experience had been in World War II.

Sound the advance!

Just in time for the kickoff.

For Bob to have seen that, and then have to reconstruct

this ridiculous little tableau of these phony German soldiers

landing on the coast of Britain,

must have seemed like a play-acting of the lowest order for him.

J‘ Which pets get to sleep on velvet mats?

J‘ Nature/lement

J‘ The Aristocats!

[Richard] In the early 70s, Bob and I came back to Disney

to complete work on two films,

The Aristocats and Bedknobs and Broomsticks.

But, without Walt there, it just wasn't the same.

[Ms. Price] J‘ You must face the age of not believing

J‘ Doubting everything you ever knew

J‘ Until at last you start believing

J‘ There's something wonderful in you

Dad was our great catalyst. He kept us together.

And he said on many occasions,

"As a team, you're gonna make it. As a team, you'll be strong.

If you start dividing it up and saying I did this, you did that...

you're not gonna have a team very long. So just get used to it."

J‘ Oh, we've got lots in common where it really counts

J‘ Where it really counts we 've got large amounts

| travel all over America

and | go to England and Australia,

and what am | asked to autograph most of all is the album of Charlotte's Web.

- How was that? - Great. Right on the nose.

[J. Sherman] So Charlotte's Web was your favorite score?

Yeah. My Dad liked that, too.

Great little pure songs.

J‘ How very special are we

J‘ For just a moment to be

J‘ Part of life 's eternal rhyme

It meant a lot to me, also, because I loved my parents

and, obviously, they must have loved theirs a great deal.

J‘ Mother Earth and Father Time

[Richard] Mom and Dad both lived to see us win the Academy Awards.

They both lived through a lot of our later successes.

Up until the early '70s. They both were gone by then.

J‘ Mother Earth and Father Time J‘

After a funeral, the family receives fellow mourners at a home.

Not this one. There were two.

They didn't attend each others' receptions,

and everybody else had to attend one or the other.

Ever since I was a little girl, l was told,

"Well, if we meet at family events, you can wave hello

and be polite, and that's best."

The first time that I met Richard Sherman

and his wife, Elizabeth, was at an event.

And they all went to another side of the theater.

And I thought, "This is kind of odd."

Another person's weird is our normal. That's just the way it was, growing up.

[J. Sherman] Dad got to the point of exhaustion with the sibling rivalry

on a number of occasions. But he always found a way

to get back up the next day and have a plan

to bring his boys back together again.

J‘ He just knew that I'm soft-hearted I'm just barely gettin' started

J‘ Now I'm taking all my...

- Try "Now I'm giving all my..." - OK.

I actually can remember going up to the Sherman brothers' office

where they were writing phrases

and trying to link into script scenes.

One of the beacons of American 19th Century literature

was translated by the Shermans into something wonderfully viable, musically.

J‘ That deep-down inside gratifaction

J‘ Oh, how good you feel when your shoulder's to the wheel!

[Sibley] Everything in their career has pushed them

into being two halves of a whole.

They are, by fate and fame, shackled together.

How can that not, at some point or other,

have caused as many problems for them as individuals

as it has caused joy and delight to all of us who have heard their music?

[J‘ Charley Pride: River Song]

J‘ Only once in his life

J‘ Is he free J‘

Bob was not as enthusiastic anymore.

He would say, "This is not exactly doing Slipper and the Rose, is it?"

"It's not really doing Charlotte's Web, is it?"

Or maybe it was me, maybe I grated on him or something.

Bob would retreat to his own thoughts.

He'd love to paint. He'd sit at home and paint and things like that.

Take trips up the coast. He would do all kinds of stuff that | just didn't...

"Why aren't you writing? This is the fun of life, is to write new songs."

It wasn't necessary.

We didn't just write songs to write songs.

If there was a requirement for a picture, we'd do it. That's all.

[Richard] He became more Bob Sherman and I stayed being Dick Sherman.

[Menken] Howard and l, we were in this conference room

and we were presenting The Little Mermaid.

At a certain point, we were told by one of the people at Disney,

"You know, next door, the Sherman brothers are over there."

"Really?"

He said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. We gotta listen to them..."

But the implication being,

you're the hip, new guys. You're coming in and you're gonna be, um...

We're gonna be in business together. It was a surprising moment.

On the one hand, I felt this pride that we were now entering this tradition.

On the other hand, you feel the fleeting nature

of our importance in Hollywood or in show business.

I knew they wrote Small World.

And I'm making a comedy

that deals with this kind of fantasy land.

I said, "Write a real song that you would write for a theme park

called Wonder World."

You're talking to Bob and Dick. They're both here.

But you're talking to them as individuals, not as a team.

| asked Bob and Dick if they would be in the movie.

l was surprised how thrilled they were.

Bob was in a bar with Arthur Hiller and Ray Harryhausen.

And he was good.

Did you hear? Somebody shot Dave Thornton.

- Somebody shot Uncle Dave? - Is there a TV here?

Dick's cameo was just in the parade. It's just a moment they trimmed.

He blew the whistle to lead the parade.

[whistle blowing]

I saw Bob. I said, "Hey, did you like yourself in the movie?"

And he said, "Yeah."

But with the glee which he said, "I enjoyed more that you cut Dick out."

Dad died January 7th of 1993.

He used to be the one that filled in where Walt wasn't there

and where Dad wasn't there. It would be Mike.

And then Mike passed away.

And so there was nobody putting us together anymore.

[Carothers] Bob is a romantic.

And Dick is a sentimentalist.

And a lot of people think that's the same thing, but it's not.

F. Scott Fitzgerald had a wonderful definition.

He said, "A sentimental person thinks things will last,

and a romantic hopes against hope they will not."

And then one day, Bob just said,

"I don't think we need the office anymore."

We weren't getting these big assignments.

And so, I said, "Well, OK. We will then."

I thought it was an end of an era.

Yes.

lronically, we got busy after that.

[man] When we sat down to write the Tigger song,

Richard said, "Well, l was thinking of something like this..."

[mouthing bass notes]

And I kind of went, "Well... Um...

I don't see me singing that."

And he turns to me and goes, "Well, what did you have in mind?"

J‘ Sunny days and starry nights and lazy afternoons

J‘ You're countin' castles in the clouds

J‘ And hummin' little tunes

I saw things happening that were so fast between the two of them

that I didn't pay much attention to it.

| just accepted it as the shorthand of two people

who've worked together all their lives.

They mentioned to me that they'd been

away from the Disney camp for quite a while.

But I didn't realize how emotional it would be for them

to have another shot at writing

for a Disney movie, let alone a Winnie the Pooh movie.

And how appropriate it should be called Your Heart Will Lead You Home.

J‘ Just think of your friends The ones who care

J‘ They all will be waiting there

J‘ With love to share

J‘ And your heart will lead you

J‘ Where you belong lknow

J‘ Your heart will lead you

J‘ Home J‘

[Liebman] Joyce Sherman was this stunning woman

with an amazing sense of humor.

She threw the most beautiful parties. She loved to celebrate.

I think Joyce knew that she was not well

and she planned this huge trip to Hawaii for the Bob Shermans.

- It was just beautiful. - [J. Sherman] She had liver cancer.

She was in the hospital for quite a while, and he never left.

Bob stood by her side in the hospital. He would not leave.

He was devoted to her until the very end.

[J‘ Gemma Craven: I Can't Forget the Melody]

[J. Sherman] Did you always think that, at some point in your life,

- you'd move to London? - No.

But it so happened at a point in my life,

when I became a widower,

I decided to change my whole...

...background.

Bob found that everywhere he went was a reminder,

and he couldn't bear it.

So he had to get to someplace where there were no memories.

[Carothers] Dick and l were at Bob's house and Bob said to me,

"I'm moving to England."

And Dick said, "What?!"

I didn't know, but he'd leased out his house and taken an apartment

and lives in London now.

I donated these two paintings of mine to the temple.

My wife's name is up there.

l dedicated it to her.

[Broccoli] He always loved London.

It was kind of fortuitous that the show went into rehearsal

at a time when he wanted to make a change

and needed to make a change in his life.

J‘ Bang bang chitty chitty bang bang

J‘ Our fine four fendered friend

J‘ Bang bang chitty chitty bang bang

J‘ Our fine four fendered friend

J‘ Chitty bang bang Chitty chitty bang bang

J‘ Chitty bang bang Chitty chitty bang bang

J‘ Chitty bang bang Chitty chitty bang bang

Barbara Broccoli putting on the play there

really kind of saved his life, I think.

I'm grateful for that.

J‘ It's a small world after all

Come on, everybody!

J‘ It's a small world after all...

[Richard] I really enjoy my life.

I spend my time doing all the things I love to do.

J‘ It's a small world after all

I think he keeps regretting the fact that he didn't write that big novel.

[Robert] This is my book.

A lot of stories about the people I've known.

A lot of sad stuff. A lot of funny stuff.

[Richard] On my 50th birthday, Bob surprised me and gave me this...

...personally cut it out and fixed it up and put it into this frame

with a little note.

And the note is something I'll treasure forever.

"The sun reflects upon our smiles.

Now we awaken and the mirror lies. Time and place is transient.

Only love and memory abide,

for within our hearts the major music hides.

On this, the celebration of your birth,

your worth to me is more than I can say.

[voice breaking] It is rooted in the suns...

...in the suns of yesterday." [crying softly]

[J. Sherman] You ask him how long it takes to write a song.

Their old saying is "Your entire life and the time it takes to jot it down."

And when you get to know them and understand

what they've been through with each other,

it's almost like a Greek tragedy in a way.

They were put together to do these things.

And that friction is what makes these beautiful things come to life.

[J‘ Let's Go Fly a Kite plays]

Mary Poppins was truly the culmination

of everything they've had in their careers.

It was an incredibly perfect score.

Here it was, gonna premiere on Broadway, and they were gonna be together.

Does it go under the collar or stay over it?

- l have no idea. - I don't either.

These things are the things that drive me crazy.

Doing the right tie.

l'm nervous. I can't help it. Just twitchy today.

- You got it there? - I hope so.

So Dad, you ready for your big night?

Yeah, I'm ready.

[G. Sherman] Jeff and I had hoped, in doing this movie,

it would give our dads an opportunity to reconnect.

Hey, bro.

How you doing, kid?

[G. Sherman] In life, not everything turns out

like a Sherman Brothers musical.

But, somewhere in their songs, they do meet.

[playing piano]

[Robert] I didn't want to wallow in the sadness of the world,

I want to bring happiness to people.

[Richard] Well, we've had a good career together.

[Robert] We're different people. We have different interests.

[Richard] Bob goes his way, I go my way.

I'd just like him to say, "Hey, I'm glad I did what I did."

[Robert] When I look back at what I've done,

I don't have any regrets.

[J‘ Louis Armstrong: Ten Feet Off the Ground]

J‘ Lindbergh Oh, what a flying fool was he

J‘ Lindbergh His name will live in history

J‘ Over the ocean He flew all alone

J‘ Gambling with fate and with dangers unknown

J‘ Lindbergh...

J‘ Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

J‘ Even though the sound of it is something quite atrocious

J‘ If you say it loud enough you will always sound precocious

J‘ Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

Supercalifragilisticexpi...

Yeah, an hour ago, I could have said it.

...expialidocious.

Or dociousaliexpisticfragicalirupus backwards.

Are you impressed? I am.

And I said, "Mary Poppins is a great movie and would make

a great stage musical." And l was right.

It's A Small World, it was invented by the red Chinese as a torture thing.

They brought so many people so much joy.

And if angst produces it, maybe they should keep it up.

Although, I would like to see them hug and kiss each otherjust once.

[J‘ Chitty Chitty Bang Bang plays]

[woman] Good morning, Discovery.

And good morning, Pam, and thank you so much for that great wake-up music,

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

[woman 2] Thanks, that's one of my favorite Sherman Brothers' songs.

The shuttle may not have "fine four fenders "

but it's got two beautiful wings

and we 're looking fon/I/ard to a smooth touchdown later today.

J‘ Teamwork can make a dream work

J‘ If you're not afraid to fight

J‘ Teamwork can make a dream work

J‘ If you fight for what is right

J‘ Though it seems a dream's impossible to do

J‘ Great teams make its possibilities come true

J‘ So when you start out let all your heart out

J‘ And we won 't stop what we begin

J‘ 'Cause teamwork can make a dream work

J‘ If we have got the will to win

Come on!

J‘ Yes, teamwork can make a dream work

J‘ If we have got the will to win! J‘

[Mary Poppins] J‘ Some people laugh through their noses

J‘ Sounding something like this

[laughing through nose] Dreadful.

J‘ Some people laugh through their teeth, goodness sakes

J‘ Hissing and fizzing like snakes [hissing]

Not at all attractive to my way of thinking.

[Bert] J‘ Some laugh too fast [giggling]

J‘ Some only blast

Ha!

J‘ Others, they twitter like birds

[laughing rapidly]

[Mary Poppins] You know, you're as bad as he is?

J‘ Then there's the kind what can't make up their mind

Mmm, mmm, mmm. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

Hee, hee, hee, hee. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Yee-hee-ha. Huh?

[Uncle Albert] J‘ When things strike me as funny

J‘ I can't hide it inside and squeak

Heh!

J‘ As the squeakelers do

J‘ I've got to let go with a ho-ho-ho-ho

J‘ And a... [guffawing]

J‘ ...too!

J‘ We love to laugh

[laughter]

J‘ Loud and long and clear

J‘ We love to laugh

J‘ So everybody can hear

J‘ The more you laugh

J‘ The more you fill with glee

J‘ The more the glee

J‘ The more we 're a merrier we J‘

[laughter]