Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:02,043 --> 00:00:07,523
This programme contains very strong
language from the start
and discussions related to violence
that some viewers may find upsetting
2
00:00:12,963 --> 00:00:15,203
Eh, this is fucking mental, this.
3
00:00:15,243 --> 00:00:16,723
LAUGHTER
4
00:00:16,763 --> 00:00:20,203
It is, it's fucking mental.
5
00:00:20,243 --> 00:00:22,283
How you doing?
6
00:00:22,323 --> 00:00:28,483
I never believed I'd have a fucking
visit like Star Trek.
7
00:00:28,523 --> 00:00:30,443
And it's only a little
screen, you know?
8
00:00:30,483 --> 00:00:32,323
But seeing you perfect.
9
00:00:32,363 --> 00:00:33,603
It's mad, isn't it?
10
00:00:46,003 --> 00:00:47,483
It's fucking madness.
11
00:00:47,523 --> 00:00:50,603
Now, I can see something
in the background there,
12
00:00:50,643 --> 00:00:52,163
in like an arch.
13
00:00:52,203 --> 00:00:53,523
That's the kitchen.
14
00:00:53,563 --> 00:00:54,963
Oh, is that a kitchen?
15
00:00:55,003 --> 00:00:57,963
Yeah.
Fucking hell.
16
00:00:58,003 --> 00:01:00,403
Yeah, fucking...
17
00:01:00,443 --> 00:01:03,803
What's that to the right,
next to the paintings?
18
00:01:03,843 --> 00:01:06,403
Er, that's the living room.
19
00:01:06,443 --> 00:01:08,203
Fucking beautiful house.
20
00:01:18,203 --> 00:01:20,043
So are you behaving yourself?
21
00:01:20,083 --> 00:01:22,963
Listen, they're treating
me well here.
22
00:01:23,003 --> 00:01:26,763
A few bits of silly nonsense
here and there.
23
00:01:26,803 --> 00:01:29,843
So when the parole board
eventually say to you,
24
00:01:29,883 --> 00:01:31,083
why should we let you out?
25
00:01:31,123 --> 00:01:33,243
How do they know you're not
going to attack anyone?
26
00:01:33,283 --> 00:01:36,323
Because, you know you haven't got
the best past of you, to be honest.
27
00:01:36,363 --> 00:01:40,603
Of a horrible, nasty, vicious,
violent past.
28
00:01:41,843 --> 00:01:43,923
I've never killed anyone.
29
00:01:43,963 --> 00:01:47,403
I've never armed a woman,
never harmed a child.
30
00:01:47,443 --> 00:01:50,763
I'm focused, I'm settled.
31
00:01:50,803 --> 00:01:55,283
I can actually smell
and taste freedom,
32
00:01:55,323 --> 00:01:58,443
like I've never, ever done
in my life.
33
00:01:58,483 --> 00:02:02,403
I'm now anti-crime, anti-violent...
34
00:02:02,443 --> 00:02:06,523
What the fuck am I still
in prison for?
35
00:02:17,003 --> 00:02:19,923
The system has labelled me
for so many years.
36
00:02:21,203 --> 00:02:25,923
Untameable, untreatable,
unpredictable, dangerous.
37
00:02:25,963 --> 00:02:29,803
Blah, blah, blah, I've had every
label you can think of.
38
00:02:29,843 --> 00:02:33,323
But at the end of the day,
what people don't realise,
39
00:02:33,363 --> 00:02:39,083
since George, my son, has come into
my life, I've changed.
40
00:02:39,123 --> 00:02:42,843
And George has got me the best
legal team in the world...
41
00:02:42,883 --> 00:02:45,003
..and I'm coming home.
42
00:02:45,043 --> 00:02:47,003
I'm definitely coming home.
43
00:02:47,043 --> 00:02:51,203
Cards on the table, do I sound like
Britain's most dangerous man?
44
00:02:51,243 --> 00:02:52,683
Come on.
45
00:02:52,723 --> 00:02:56,843
I'm 68 years old, and all
I want to do is get out
46
00:02:56,883 --> 00:03:00,243
there and enjoy my fucking life,
what's left of it.
47
00:03:06,403 --> 00:03:09,243
The problem my dad's got, as soon
as he walks in the courtroom
48
00:03:09,283 --> 00:03:12,003
or a parole board, and they see
that name on the top of the sheet,
49
00:03:12,043 --> 00:03:16,803
Charles Bronson, automatically
alarm bells start ringing.
50
00:03:16,843 --> 00:03:19,403
I mean, who's going to want
to release Charles Bronson?
51
00:03:35,523 --> 00:03:40,243
Over the years, I've represented
a number of notorious prisoners.
52
00:03:40,283 --> 00:03:43,723
I'm used to dealing with people
that are stuck in the system.
53
00:03:43,763 --> 00:03:46,203
If there's one prisoner that's
stuck in the system,
54
00:03:46,243 --> 00:03:48,163
his name is Charlie Bronson.
55
00:03:52,003 --> 00:03:54,523
There is no escape in his past,
I'm not sitting here
56
00:03:54,563 --> 00:03:55,883
to justify his past.
57
00:03:55,923 --> 00:03:59,803
He owns it, he accepts that he was
a very violent individual.
58
00:03:59,843 --> 00:04:02,123
Charlie's looked at the old him.
59
00:04:02,163 --> 00:04:06,083
He's done work on that and now
the focus is on the new him.
60
00:04:07,643 --> 00:04:11,163
Any life sentence prisoner has to go
in front of the parole board
61
00:04:11,203 --> 00:04:13,163
in order to be released.
62
00:04:13,203 --> 00:04:16,203
The parole board are effectively
looking into a crystal ball
63
00:04:16,243 --> 00:04:18,723
and they're predicting where
an individual is going
64
00:04:18,763 --> 00:04:20,963
to reoffend in the future.
65
00:04:21,003 --> 00:04:25,403
The ways of doing that is looking at
past behaviour, current behaviour,
66
00:04:25,443 --> 00:04:28,043
and what the future is going
to look like.
67
00:04:28,083 --> 00:04:29,603
Do you want to win this one?
68
00:04:29,643 --> 00:04:31,443
I certainly want to win this one.
69
00:04:31,483 --> 00:04:34,843
This is, hands down...
70
00:04:34,883 --> 00:04:37,483
..the closest he's ever come
to release.
71
00:04:57,963 --> 00:05:02,483
ARCHIVE: There's an experiment being
conducted behind these locked gates.
72
00:05:02,523 --> 00:05:06,363
But Hull prison's A wing is
testing a softly, softly regime
73
00:05:06,403 --> 00:05:09,283
on some of the most dangerous and
disruptive inmates
74
00:05:09,323 --> 00:05:12,043
sent from long term dispersal jails.
75
00:05:19,683 --> 00:05:24,723
These people have been fighting
the system for a long, long time.
76
00:05:24,763 --> 00:05:28,923
When they come here, we don't
fight back.
77
00:05:28,963 --> 00:05:32,003
We try and negotiate things through.
78
00:05:32,043 --> 00:05:33,963
A wing was very well set up...
79
00:05:34,003 --> 00:05:36,483
Gym...
80
00:05:36,523 --> 00:05:41,603
Big central sort of social
area on the ground floor.
81
00:05:41,643 --> 00:05:46,003
And basically, they spent most
of their time
82
00:05:46,043 --> 00:05:49,083
in that area rather than being
locked up.
83
00:05:49,123 --> 00:05:53,043
So compared to some of the other
wings, it was,
84
00:05:53,083 --> 00:05:54,963
I'd say, quite privileged.
85
00:06:07,923 --> 00:06:10,043
I didn't go on A wing that often.
86
00:06:10,083 --> 00:06:12,763
It would be like any head
teacher does.
87
00:06:12,803 --> 00:06:17,123
If I needed to cover, I'd cover,
wherever it was.
88
00:06:17,163 --> 00:06:20,163
So I just went in and substituted
it for one of my staff.
89
00:06:20,203 --> 00:06:23,163
And it's a slightly more dangerous
situation, but...
90
00:06:23,203 --> 00:06:25,083
..it's still basically the same.
91
00:06:25,123 --> 00:06:28,243
This guy was expecting me at 2:00
or whatever it was,
92
00:06:28,283 --> 00:06:30,123
so I just went on and did it.
93
00:06:30,163 --> 00:06:34,723
There was no problem at all until
Bronson appeared on the scene.
94
00:06:45,003 --> 00:06:49,443
But as soon as Bronson burst in,
the prison officer scarpered.
95
00:06:52,203 --> 00:06:54,403
I was terrified out of my mind.
96
00:06:56,323 --> 00:06:58,963
Just like five minutes of horror.
97
00:06:59,003 --> 00:07:01,443
But I've never been as frightened.
98
00:07:02,963 --> 00:07:05,043
They talk about, you think you see
your whole life
99
00:07:05,083 --> 00:07:06,683
passing in front of your eyes.
100
00:07:06,723 --> 00:07:07,923
You do.
101
00:07:22,123 --> 00:07:26,843
Bronson just burst into the room
and grabbed me around the neck.
102
00:07:26,883 --> 00:07:29,923
Then he hit me in the face
and I got lots of the verbals.
103
00:07:29,963 --> 00:07:31,763
"You're all going to fucking die.
104
00:07:31,803 --> 00:07:33,363
"You're going to die."
105
00:07:33,403 --> 00:07:37,483
All this for ages, so I just
kept absolutely quiet.
106
00:07:37,523 --> 00:07:39,603
I thought, I'm going to die now.
107
00:07:39,643 --> 00:07:41,563
What's he going to do?
How's he going to do it?
108
00:07:41,603 --> 00:07:42,923
You know?
109
00:07:46,003 --> 00:07:49,603
Charlie then went down on one knee
and jabbed the knife into my ribs.
110
00:07:49,643 --> 00:07:53,443
I could feel this point
through my shirt.
111
00:07:53,483 --> 00:07:54,963
I do remember that.
112
00:07:56,243 --> 00:07:59,803
"Take your last breath because
this knife is going in you."
113
00:08:01,643 --> 00:08:04,843
Did you remember how you were
feeling at this point?
114
00:08:06,243 --> 00:08:07,603
Terrified.
115
00:08:12,523 --> 00:08:15,403
The siege at Hull Prison,
which began when an inmate,
116
00:08:15,443 --> 00:08:18,723
Charles Bronson, described as
Britain's most dangerous prisoner,
117
00:08:18,763 --> 00:08:22,843
took a member of staff hostage,
has ended after 43 hours.
118
00:08:24,323 --> 00:08:26,563
His victim this time was
a prison teacher
119
00:08:26,603 --> 00:08:30,723
Bronson took hostage at knife-point
during a two day siege.
120
00:08:32,443 --> 00:08:34,923
He defended himself during
the hearing and got
121
00:08:34,963 --> 00:08:36,523
some charges dropped.
122
00:08:36,563 --> 00:08:39,883
But in the end, the jury found him
guilty of false imprisonment.
123
00:08:41,363 --> 00:08:44,363
Bronson told a judge once
he had eaten more porridge
124
00:08:44,403 --> 00:08:45,963
than the three bears.
125
00:08:46,003 --> 00:08:48,963
Now that diet will continue
for a lot longer,
126
00:08:49,003 --> 00:08:52,083
after being given a life sentence
for the latest in a series
127
00:08:52,123 --> 00:08:54,283
of attacks inside prison.
128
00:08:54,323 --> 00:08:58,363
We took great pride at one point in
saying that I was the only one
129
00:08:58,403 --> 00:09:01,803
of his hostages who hadn't
physically shit himself,
130
00:09:01,843 --> 00:09:04,283
and he really admired me for that.
131
00:09:11,843 --> 00:09:14,123
Do you remember that
Phil Danielson?
132
00:09:14,163 --> 00:09:15,323
Yeah, the teacher, yeah.
133
00:09:15,363 --> 00:09:17,123
The teacher you took hostage.
134
00:09:17,163 --> 00:09:19,843
I went over the top,
as I normally do.
135
00:09:19,883 --> 00:09:21,723
I never hurt the man.
136
00:09:21,763 --> 00:09:23,883
Mentally, obviously I did.
137
00:09:23,923 --> 00:09:25,923
He didn't deserve what he got...
138
00:09:27,083 --> 00:09:31,123
..but did I deserve a life sentence
just for roughing him up?
139
00:09:31,163 --> 00:09:35,003
If I'd have killed him, I'd have
probably been out by now.
140
00:09:35,043 --> 00:09:40,763
When you're locked me in a concrete
coffin 23 hours of a 24 hour day,
141
00:09:40,803 --> 00:09:44,643
sometimes in life you got
to do something mad.
142
00:09:44,683 --> 00:09:48,723
The madder it is, the more dangerous
is, the better it fucking is.
143
00:09:50,003 --> 00:09:53,603
But I've got to be honest with you,
I've had a fucking party here.
144
00:09:59,883 --> 00:10:01,883
At first they said I had PTSD.
145
00:10:01,923 --> 00:10:05,003
After a couple of breakdowns
I said, "Why am I still feeling it?
146
00:10:05,043 --> 00:10:07,043
"Don't I get better?"
147
00:10:07,083 --> 00:10:09,243
They couldn't really give me
an answer.
148
00:10:09,283 --> 00:10:12,923
I think they called it acute anxiety
disorder, or something like that.
149
00:10:12,963 --> 00:10:14,763
I guess I'll never get over that.
150
00:10:16,123 --> 00:10:20,243
The damage that was caused by him
as moulded my whole life
151
00:10:20,283 --> 00:10:22,883
since 2000 and...
152
00:10:22,923 --> 00:10:24,443
Well, since 1999.
153
00:10:24,483 --> 00:10:27,443
23 years nearly, it's moulded
my whole life.
154
00:10:27,483 --> 00:10:32,923
So it'll be with me for
the rest of my days.
155
00:10:32,963 --> 00:10:37,923
Because if it hadn't happened,
I would have probably just about
156
00:10:37,963 --> 00:10:41,483
now at 60 been thinking
about retiring.
157
00:10:41,523 --> 00:10:43,163
You couldn't go back to work?
158
00:10:43,203 --> 00:10:45,723
No, no, never worked.
159
00:10:45,763 --> 00:10:50,243
Mentally, I couldn't bring
myself around to doing it.
160
00:10:50,283 --> 00:10:52,523
And I suppose that's why
they decided
161
00:10:52,563 --> 00:10:54,323
that I was unfit to teach.
162
00:11:05,483 --> 00:11:07,643
I've no idea what feelings
were going through
163
00:11:07,683 --> 00:11:09,083
Phil Danielson's mind.
164
00:11:09,123 --> 00:11:11,523
I imagine he'd be absolutely
shitting himself.
165
00:11:11,563 --> 00:11:14,523
And Charlie should have got
a stiff sentence for that.
166
00:11:14,563 --> 00:11:17,843
But why did they give him
a life sentence?
167
00:11:17,883 --> 00:11:20,523
Basically they did that so they've
got complete and utter
168
00:11:20,563 --> 00:11:24,083
control of him for the rest
of his entire life.
169
00:11:24,123 --> 00:11:27,123
One thing could not be disputed...
170
00:11:27,163 --> 00:11:29,843
He had kidnapped me
and it carries life.
171
00:11:30,963 --> 00:11:35,523
On a personal level, what he
did to me and my life,
172
00:11:35,563 --> 00:11:37,203
I'll never forgive him.
173
00:12:08,763 --> 00:12:11,563
The Parole Board doesn't have to
show that Bronson needs
174
00:12:11,603 --> 00:12:12,963
to be kept in prison.
175
00:12:13,003 --> 00:12:16,003
He has to show he's safe to release.
176
00:12:16,043 --> 00:12:20,363
And to do that, they'll look at
three sources of evidence.
177
00:12:20,403 --> 00:12:25,323
So one is they'll have a dossier
of evidence that describes
178
00:12:25,363 --> 00:12:29,603
what Bronson has done since
he started offending.
179
00:12:29,643 --> 00:12:33,483
The second thing will be the
evidence of the people who've
180
00:12:33,523 --> 00:12:35,643
worked with Bronson
while he's been in prison.
181
00:12:35,683 --> 00:12:38,523
So that would be quite often, what's
the assessment of psychologists?
182
00:12:38,563 --> 00:12:41,403
Might be prison staff, there might
be his probation officer,
183
00:12:41,443 --> 00:12:43,963
there'll be other professionals
who've worked with Brunson.
184
00:12:44,003 --> 00:12:47,803
And then finally Bronson
himself will be questioned.
185
00:12:47,843 --> 00:12:51,483
Can the Parole Board be confident
that if he's released,
186
00:12:51,523 --> 00:12:54,363
he won't commit another
serious offence?
187
00:13:16,123 --> 00:13:21,643
I think he's done his time and he
should have been out years ago.
188
00:13:21,683 --> 00:13:25,563
He's been the perfect son
to me, always and showed me
189
00:13:25,603 --> 00:13:27,243
respect and everything.
190
00:13:27,283 --> 00:13:29,563
When he writes to me sometimes
on the envelope,
191
00:13:29,603 --> 00:13:30,923
it's got, "to the duchess."
192
00:13:30,963 --> 00:13:33,763
He always call you the duchess when
we go and visit him.
193
00:13:33,803 --> 00:13:36,843
I daren't tell you what I call
him sometimes.
194
00:13:41,763 --> 00:13:45,923
I think about him every day, I think
about my husband every day.
195
00:13:45,963 --> 00:13:49,563
The only thing he was a bit
possessive, very jealous of me,
196
00:13:49,603 --> 00:13:53,243
he was, he's hit a few
in the pubs, I've had.
197
00:13:53,283 --> 00:13:54,643
Charlie's dad?
198
00:13:54,683 --> 00:13:56,963
Yeah, he's hit a few.
199
00:13:57,003 --> 00:13:59,563
Right, do you reckon that's where
Charlie might have got his...
200
00:13:59,603 --> 00:14:02,843
I don't know, he's... You see,
Joe was a boxer. Right.
201
00:14:02,883 --> 00:14:06,323
And he had a bit of a short fuse,
as they say.
202
00:14:06,363 --> 00:14:09,963
It was like Sergeant Major,
talked to a soldier.
203
00:14:10,003 --> 00:14:12,843
You know, you've got to do this,
you've got to be right,
204
00:14:12,883 --> 00:14:15,243
and treat people right
and things like that.
205
00:14:15,283 --> 00:14:18,283
Where did it all go wrong
for Charlie?
206
00:14:18,323 --> 00:14:20,603
What was the defining moment
where you thought,
207
00:14:20,643 --> 00:14:23,003
"oh, hold on a minute."
208
00:14:23,043 --> 00:14:25,963
I think he started stealing.
What did he steal?
209
00:14:26,003 --> 00:14:29,483
I remember going in his bedroom one
day and he had pencils
210
00:14:29,523 --> 00:14:31,763
and little notebooks.
211
00:14:31,803 --> 00:14:34,523
And I said to him,
"where'd you get these?"
212
00:14:34,563 --> 00:14:36,963
"Woolworths..." He told me
the truth.
213
00:14:37,003 --> 00:14:38,643
"Woolworths," he said.
214
00:14:38,683 --> 00:14:40,603
I said, "Where did you get
the money for them?"
215
00:14:40,643 --> 00:14:43,123
He said, "I took them, mum."
He told me.
216
00:14:43,163 --> 00:14:45,283
Oh, right, so just completely
straight...
217
00:14:45,323 --> 00:14:48,323
I know it's only little things
like that, nothing...
218
00:14:48,363 --> 00:14:50,083
..bad.
219
00:14:50,123 --> 00:14:52,243
ARCHIVE: The Cheshire town
of Ellesmere Port,
220
00:14:52,283 --> 00:14:55,323
which will eventually resettle
families from Liverpool
221
00:14:55,363 --> 00:14:58,163
and the overcrowded towns
on the Wirral Peninsula.
222
00:14:58,203 --> 00:15:01,203
The estate provided a typical cross
section of the community.
223
00:15:01,243 --> 00:15:05,763
My mother and father moved
to Ellesmere Port and he missed
224
00:15:05,803 --> 00:15:08,403
his grandparents a lot.
225
00:15:08,443 --> 00:15:11,923
So he said to me one day, he said,
I think I'm going to go and move
226
00:15:11,963 --> 00:15:15,203
up to Ellesmere Port, mum, with nan.
227
00:15:15,243 --> 00:15:18,883
And then he met his future wife.
228
00:15:18,923 --> 00:15:20,763
She got pregnant.
229
00:15:20,803 --> 00:15:23,363
I loved her to bits, Irene.
230
00:15:23,403 --> 00:15:26,523
She was a nice girl,
she couldn't cook.
231
00:15:26,563 --> 00:15:29,283
She could wash, she was
a lovely girl,
232
00:15:29,323 --> 00:15:31,243
but she didn't have a clue.
233
00:15:42,123 --> 00:15:48,683
# Strangers arms reach out
234
00:15:48,723 --> 00:15:53,963
A man's first love is really
the one love.
235
00:15:54,003 --> 00:15:56,803
And I idolised Irene,
I really did.
236
00:15:59,123 --> 00:16:01,803
I don't know him as Charles Bronson.
237
00:16:01,843 --> 00:16:05,443
I know him as Michael Peterson, but
his name was Mick, when I met him.
238
00:16:08,523 --> 00:16:12,163
I was 18 and I used to work
at Littlewoods Pools
239
00:16:12,203 --> 00:16:14,683
as an audio typist.
240
00:16:14,723 --> 00:16:17,483
I never used to go to Ellesmere Port
or anything, so I said,
241
00:16:17,523 --> 00:16:18,803
"OK, I'll come."
242
00:16:18,843 --> 00:16:20,843
I bought a new dress and everything.
243
00:16:24,403 --> 00:16:26,563
We were sitting down and we
had a drink.
244
00:16:26,603 --> 00:16:29,883
It was lovely, it was a really
lovely pub then.
245
00:16:29,923 --> 00:16:31,163
Not like this.
246
00:16:31,203 --> 00:16:35,203
And next thing, these two blokes
came in with suits on
247
00:16:35,243 --> 00:16:37,203
and they were both really
nice looking.
248
00:16:37,243 --> 00:16:39,723
They were like, turned round
and were staring at us.
249
00:16:39,763 --> 00:16:42,443
I was saying, "Linda, there's two
really nice blokes just come in,"
250
00:16:42,483 --> 00:16:44,683
and she was thinking
the same thing to me.
251
00:16:44,723 --> 00:16:47,723
And that was the beginning
of my life with Mick...
252
00:16:47,763 --> 00:16:50,203
Charles Bronson, that he is now.
253
00:16:50,243 --> 00:16:52,323
Very sentimental, this place.
254
00:16:56,643 --> 00:16:58,483
Oh, the memories.
255
00:16:58,523 --> 00:17:00,003
I wish he was out.
256
00:17:01,883 --> 00:17:03,643
WHISPERS: I wish he was out.
257
00:17:05,163 --> 00:17:07,923
Not going to be with him, but
just want him out of prison.
258
00:17:12,603 --> 00:17:13,963
Cheer, Mick.
259
00:17:14,003 --> 00:17:16,643
Back here after all these years.
260
00:17:16,683 --> 00:17:18,123
Wish you were here.
261
00:17:20,083 --> 00:17:21,763
One day.
262
00:17:21,803 --> 00:17:24,803
When Mick and I used to go
out on our own,
263
00:17:24,843 --> 00:17:27,803
you can guarantee, before the end
of the night, somebody would
264
00:17:27,843 --> 00:17:30,523
come over to Mick, whisper
in his ear something.
265
00:17:30,563 --> 00:17:34,003
Then Mick would say to me, "sorry,
Irene, I'm going to order
266
00:17:34,043 --> 00:17:36,563
"a taxi for you to take you home."
267
00:17:36,603 --> 00:17:39,363
And I always used to look around
in the back of the taxi,
268
00:17:39,403 --> 00:17:42,803
and all I'd see was just like loads
and loads of blokes,
269
00:17:42,843 --> 00:17:44,283
they were all fighting.
270
00:17:44,323 --> 00:17:48,003
And I think Mick was always like,
I might see an arm, or Mick's shoe,
271
00:17:48,043 --> 00:17:50,203
or his leg or something, but
it was like fun,
272
00:17:50,243 --> 00:17:51,803
nobody killed each other.
273
00:18:00,843 --> 00:18:03,883
When we were married, we used to go
for these long walks,
274
00:18:03,923 --> 00:18:06,443
We used to walk through this
little place, and it had
275
00:18:06,483 --> 00:18:09,723
these great big houses
like big mansions,
276
00:18:09,763 --> 00:18:12,083
with big, high walls.
277
00:18:12,123 --> 00:18:14,923
And Mick used to say, "Irene,
hold the pram,
278
00:18:14,963 --> 00:18:18,163
"I'm just going to climb up and have
a look at their gardens."
279
00:18:18,203 --> 00:18:21,163
So he used to climb up these walls.
280
00:18:21,203 --> 00:18:24,323
He said, "Oh, Irene,
the garden's beautiful."
281
00:18:26,563 --> 00:18:29,523
"There's a beautiful bush
there, beautiful, bright
282
00:18:29,563 --> 00:18:31,563
"pink flowers on."
283
00:18:31,603 --> 00:18:34,243
And I used to think, oh,
he really likes flowers.
284
00:18:34,283 --> 00:18:37,363
It's only now, years and years
later, that realise the reason why
285
00:18:37,403 --> 00:18:39,603
he was actually doing that was
because he was probably
286
00:18:39,643 --> 00:18:42,123
trying to look, see if he could
rob it, or something.
287
00:18:42,163 --> 00:18:44,803
But that was it, I was very innocent
in those days,
288
00:18:44,843 --> 00:18:47,323
and I believed everything.
289
00:18:47,363 --> 00:18:51,483
The only time he sort of had a
temper was when he'd been drinking.
290
00:18:51,523 --> 00:18:54,283
He was like a Jekyll and Hyde.
291
00:18:54,323 --> 00:18:56,723
Sometimes he'd disappear for weeks.
292
00:19:02,163 --> 00:19:04,883
There was a big billboard out
this little newsagent shop.
293
00:19:04,923 --> 00:19:07,203
It said, "Local man gets
seven years."
294
00:19:07,243 --> 00:19:10,523
And seeing that, that just really
hit me, it came to home.
295
00:19:10,563 --> 00:19:13,203
My husband's just gone to prison
for seven years.
296
00:19:13,243 --> 00:19:16,523
It was horrendous,
absolutely horrendous.
297
00:19:16,563 --> 00:19:19,163
It's horrible going to prison
with your child
298
00:19:19,203 --> 00:19:20,843
and your husband's there.
299
00:19:20,883 --> 00:19:23,923
When they take Mick away
at the end of the visit,
300
00:19:23,963 --> 00:19:26,123
Mike used to run after him.
301
00:19:26,163 --> 00:19:28,443
It was horrible, shouting,
"Daddy, Daddy, come back,
302
00:19:28,483 --> 00:19:30,243
"come back, come back."
303
00:19:42,283 --> 00:19:44,003
Hey up, Dad, I'm here.
304
00:19:44,043 --> 00:19:46,163
I'll tell you what,
I can hear you...
305
00:19:47,803 --> 00:19:50,363
..better than I can wearing them.
306
00:19:50,403 --> 00:19:52,523
Take them off, then.
Yeah.
307
00:19:52,563 --> 00:19:54,963
Take them off. You look a right twat
with them on anyway.
308
00:19:55,003 --> 00:19:56,323
HE LAUGHS
309
00:19:56,363 --> 00:19:57,763
Go on! Right.
310
00:19:57,803 --> 00:20:00,243
THEY LAUGH
311
00:20:02,923 --> 00:20:04,643
Let me tell you something...
312
00:20:04,683 --> 00:20:08,763
I was married to Irene, and Irene
put up with a lot with me.
313
00:20:09,923 --> 00:20:13,083
But I still loved her,
and I still do love her.
314
00:20:13,123 --> 00:20:16,003
She's a beautiful, wonderful person
315
00:20:16,043 --> 00:20:18,003
who gave me Michael,
316
00:20:18,043 --> 00:20:20,203
gave birth to my son.
317
00:20:20,243 --> 00:20:23,043
And you and Michael are my world.
318
00:20:23,083 --> 00:20:25,563
I love you both the same.
319
00:20:25,603 --> 00:20:28,043
Different mums, same dad.
320
00:20:28,083 --> 00:20:29,923
Yeah.
321
00:20:29,963 --> 00:20:32,043
In 1975,
322
00:20:32,083 --> 00:20:36,243
my wife Irene
come to visit me in Hull prison,
323
00:20:36,283 --> 00:20:40,883
and I'd just had one of the biggest
beatings I've ever had in my life.
324
00:20:40,923 --> 00:20:42,883
And I deserved it.
325
00:20:42,923 --> 00:20:45,243
I attacked three prison officers.
326
00:20:45,283 --> 00:20:48,843
One of them was an infamous
jailer at that time.
327
00:20:48,883 --> 00:20:51,723
He used to give a lot out, you know,
328
00:20:51,763 --> 00:20:55,123
and I've smashed his head in
with a stick.
329
00:20:55,163 --> 00:20:57,323
And when I went on the visit,
330
00:20:57,363 --> 00:20:59,723
my Irene said to me that day...
331
00:21:02,963 --> 00:21:05,963
.."The way you're going,
you will never get out
332
00:21:06,003 --> 00:21:09,083
"and you'll end up in an asylum."
333
00:21:10,923 --> 00:21:15,963
Two years later I ended up in
Broadmoor Criminal Lunatic Asylum.
334
00:21:23,363 --> 00:21:26,523
It's 1975, Parkhurst Prison.
335
00:21:27,963 --> 00:21:31,243
I'll never forget this,
because as we were going over
336
00:21:31,283 --> 00:21:34,443
to the ferry to the Isle of Wight,
337
00:21:34,483 --> 00:21:38,123
the number one song
at the time was...
338
00:21:38,163 --> 00:21:40,363
SINGS: # I am sailing
339
00:21:41,843 --> 00:21:44,603
# I am sailing...#
340
00:21:44,643 --> 00:21:46,203
Rod Stewart, right?
341
00:21:47,683 --> 00:21:51,523
Anyone who was anyone was there,
you know, I met them all...
342
00:21:51,563 --> 00:21:54,203
The Great Train Robbers.
343
00:21:54,243 --> 00:21:58,003
And then I was put on the unit
with Ron and Reggie Kray.
344
00:21:58,043 --> 00:22:00,243
As you walked in there,
345
00:22:00,283 --> 00:22:03,443
it oozed legendary characters.
346
00:22:03,483 --> 00:22:05,443
Just a brilliant place.
347
00:22:05,483 --> 00:22:09,763
And anything that could happen
in jail, actually happened there.
348
00:22:09,803 --> 00:22:12,323
You know, I was on the roof there.
349
00:22:12,363 --> 00:22:14,683
Took an hostage there.
350
00:22:14,723 --> 00:22:16,803
I almost escaped from there.
351
00:22:19,123 --> 00:22:23,643
Parkhurst really, really was
like our Alcatraz, wasn't it?
352
00:22:25,243 --> 00:22:28,123
There was one geezer on there
called John BEEP.
353
00:22:28,163 --> 00:22:30,323
South London geezer.
354
00:22:30,363 --> 00:22:33,123
I was the number one cleaner
on that unit.
355
00:22:33,163 --> 00:22:36,923
I got a mop, bucket, broom,
and a dustpan,
356
00:22:36,963 --> 00:22:39,043
and I've got some gold paint.
357
00:22:39,083 --> 00:22:40,563
I painted 'em gold.
358
00:22:42,283 --> 00:22:45,963
John BEEP
was a horrible, arrogant bastard,
359
00:22:46,003 --> 00:22:50,123
and he was borrowing it, not putting
it back, not cleaning it.
360
00:22:50,163 --> 00:22:53,483
I had to walk round the unit trying
to find it all the fucking time.
361
00:22:55,483 --> 00:22:57,403
And he's done it again.
362
00:22:57,443 --> 00:23:00,403
I've rushed in his cell
with a jam jar,
363
00:23:00,443 --> 00:23:02,363
smashed it in his head.
364
00:23:03,883 --> 00:23:07,963
I've hit him in the neck, on the
chest. He dived under his bed,
365
00:23:08,003 --> 00:23:10,003
and as he's under his bed,
he's screaming
366
00:23:10,043 --> 00:23:12,483
like a fucking castrated pig.
367
00:23:12,523 --> 00:23:15,923
And I'm hitting his legs, his neck,
his head.
368
00:23:15,963 --> 00:23:18,563
I'm cutting him up.
I'm cutting him to fucking pieces.
369
00:23:20,283 --> 00:23:23,723
And I'm laughing as I'm doing it,
you know, I'm actually laughing,
370
00:23:23,763 --> 00:23:26,083
and I'm covered in claret.
371
00:23:27,363 --> 00:23:30,363
It's like a fucking abattoir
in there.
372
00:23:30,403 --> 00:23:33,683
I've been charged with grievous
bodily harm with intent
373
00:23:33,723 --> 00:23:35,323
and then three days after that,
374
00:23:35,363 --> 00:23:37,723
while I'm being kept
in the seg block,
375
00:23:37,763 --> 00:23:40,843
I've cut a screw and his fucking
ear lobe's come off.
376
00:23:40,883 --> 00:23:45,163
So, that's when I went to court
in 1978 and got certified insane
377
00:23:45,203 --> 00:23:47,123
and went to the fucking asylum.
378
00:23:48,483 --> 00:23:49,763
Fucking madness.
379
00:23:49,803 --> 00:23:52,643
But I was the only one in the entire
penal system
380
00:23:52,683 --> 00:23:54,723
with a golden fucking mop bucket.
381
00:23:57,203 --> 00:24:01,403
Aggravated burglary,
assault with intent to rob,
382
00:24:01,443 --> 00:24:03,763
grievous bodily harm.
383
00:24:03,803 --> 00:24:05,523
Carrying a firearm.
384
00:24:05,563 --> 00:24:07,443
False imprisonment.
385
00:24:07,483 --> 00:24:09,763
Blackmail. False imprisonment again.
386
00:24:09,803 --> 00:24:11,123
Threats to kill.
387
00:24:11,163 --> 00:24:14,283
Assault occasioning
actual bodily harm.
388
00:24:14,323 --> 00:24:18,123
Criminal damage,
criminal damage and blackmail.
389
00:24:18,163 --> 00:24:19,963
It's shocking. It is shocking.
390
00:24:20,003 --> 00:24:23,843
And he is capable
of extreme violence.
391
00:24:33,683 --> 00:24:36,403
"On the 24th of November 1978,
392
00:24:36,443 --> 00:24:40,483
"he told Dr Tidmarsh that
from his school days he had felt
393
00:24:40,523 --> 00:24:42,443
"that people were talking about him.
394
00:24:42,483 --> 00:24:45,003
"He said that he never knew
what people said about him,
395
00:24:45,043 --> 00:24:47,603
"but he knew that it was unpleasant.
396
00:24:47,643 --> 00:24:51,123
I think that you can see Charlie's
progression into violence
397
00:24:51,163 --> 00:24:52,563
very, very clearly.
398
00:24:52,603 --> 00:24:56,443
He's been diagnosed with antisocial
personality disorder,
399
00:24:56,483 --> 00:24:58,123
not caring about the law,
400
00:24:58,163 --> 00:25:01,963
and generally being rather callous
in your approach to other people.
401
00:25:02,003 --> 00:25:04,963
And paranoid personality disorder.
402
00:25:05,003 --> 00:25:10,203
Being highly suspicious of other
people and seeing malice
403
00:25:10,243 --> 00:25:14,883
and threat and hostility
where maybe none exists.
404
00:25:14,923 --> 00:25:17,883
He is actually a very disturbed
young man.
405
00:25:20,403 --> 00:25:23,403
ARCHIVE NEWS: At the end of this
field, a strange, enclosed place.
406
00:25:23,443 --> 00:25:26,963
Beyond the walls
over 1,000 locked doors.
407
00:25:27,003 --> 00:25:29,523
This institution
is officially secret.
408
00:25:29,563 --> 00:25:31,603
Every single employee here
409
00:25:31,643 --> 00:25:33,923
signs the Official Secrets Act.
410
00:25:33,963 --> 00:25:36,483
But it's not a defence
establishment. It's a hospital.
411
00:25:36,523 --> 00:25:39,203
Rampton, top security hospital,
near Retford.
412
00:25:39,243 --> 00:25:41,283
It's the Broadmoor of the North.
413
00:25:47,003 --> 00:25:50,923
When I went there, it was called
Rampton Criminal Lunatic Asylum.
414
00:25:50,963 --> 00:25:53,083
It's like Broadmoor but worse.
415
00:25:54,123 --> 00:25:57,243
It was the first asylum
I ever went in.
416
00:25:57,283 --> 00:25:59,683
It was a strange place, you know
417
00:25:59,723 --> 00:26:02,243
there was a lot of sad, sick,
418
00:26:02,283 --> 00:26:04,043
empty souls in that place.
419
00:26:05,603 --> 00:26:09,363
On my first day there, they took me
into the bathroom
420
00:26:09,403 --> 00:26:12,003
and then they bent me over the bath
421
00:26:12,043 --> 00:26:15,803
and two of them were whipping me
with wet towels.
422
00:26:15,843 --> 00:26:18,683
I couldn't fucking believe
what was happening.
423
00:26:18,723 --> 00:26:21,963
Why were they doing that? That's
fucking assault. I know, mate.
424
00:26:22,003 --> 00:26:23,803
I know, I know.
I couldn't believe it.
425
00:26:23,843 --> 00:26:26,643
And when that was all over with,
426
00:26:26,683 --> 00:26:29,203
they've given me
a bloody good kicking.
427
00:26:30,603 --> 00:26:32,283
Slung me in the room.
428
00:26:32,323 --> 00:26:34,843
About ten minutes later
they've come back
429
00:26:34,883 --> 00:26:38,003
and then they've smashed me up
to the back of the wall.
430
00:26:38,043 --> 00:26:43,603
One slipped round and jabbed me
in the arse with an injection.
431
00:26:43,643 --> 00:26:45,723
That's how Rampton was.
432
00:26:50,363 --> 00:26:53,803
His behaviour at that time
was off the scale.
433
00:26:53,843 --> 00:26:56,163
He was at the peak of his paranoia
434
00:26:56,203 --> 00:26:59,603
and he was being treated
for psychosis.
435
00:26:59,643 --> 00:27:04,283
I think it was much easier
for the the hospitals to manage
436
00:27:04,323 --> 00:27:07,043
Charlie in a sedated,
437
00:27:07,083 --> 00:27:09,403
drugged up state,
438
00:27:09,443 --> 00:27:12,363
but all it did was build resentment.
439
00:27:14,163 --> 00:27:18,323
I was there 11 months.
It's where I strangled that BEEP,
440
00:27:18,363 --> 00:27:20,523
that paedophile.
441
00:27:20,563 --> 00:27:22,443
I strangled him,
442
00:27:22,483 --> 00:27:23,723
he died,
443
00:27:23,763 --> 00:27:28,003
and they brought him back to life
with an electric bolt.
444
00:27:28,043 --> 00:27:29,923
If they hadn't brought him back
to life,
445
00:27:29,963 --> 00:27:31,683
you'd have been done for murder.
446
00:27:31,723 --> 00:27:33,363
Oh, yeah, yeah.
447
00:27:33,403 --> 00:27:37,803
I was expected to be at least
charged with attempted murder,
448
00:27:37,843 --> 00:27:42,083
but they said as I'd only
just been certified mad,
449
00:27:42,123 --> 00:27:45,003
I couldn't stand trial,
so they never charged me.
450
00:27:45,043 --> 00:27:47,803
So what they done, they packed me
off to Broadmoor, you know.
451
00:27:53,163 --> 00:27:55,483
Onlyl violence was my friend,
452
00:27:55,523 --> 00:27:57,723
living on a razor's edge.
453
00:27:59,243 --> 00:28:01,843
Visions of hopelessness.
454
00:28:01,883 --> 00:28:04,323
Jumping off the ledge.
455
00:28:04,363 --> 00:28:07,563
The scars fester deep inside.
456
00:28:07,603 --> 00:28:09,923
You're on your way to Broadmoor.
457
00:28:11,763 --> 00:28:14,043
A world of pain for evermore.
458
00:28:15,203 --> 00:28:17,803
An airless space beyond the door.
459
00:28:17,843 --> 00:28:21,523
It's hard to accept this insanity.
460
00:28:21,563 --> 00:28:24,043
There is no peace of mind.
461
00:28:24,083 --> 00:28:28,043
The liquid cosh inside your veins.
462
00:28:28,083 --> 00:28:30,963
Now you're running blind.
463
00:28:31,003 --> 00:28:33,763
Certified insane, a desperate man.
464
00:28:33,803 --> 00:28:36,763
Just a body inside a sack.
465
00:28:55,363 --> 00:28:58,443
ARCHIVE: These anonymous figures set
against the iron Victorian landscape
466
00:28:58,483 --> 00:29:01,923
of Strangeways
are society's rejects.
467
00:29:01,963 --> 00:29:05,363
Strangeways Prison is one
of the three most overcrowded
468
00:29:05,403 --> 00:29:06,883
in the country.
469
00:29:06,923 --> 00:29:10,603
The report describes it
as an impoverished regime.
470
00:29:10,643 --> 00:29:12,283
The place wants closing down.
471
00:29:12,323 --> 00:29:14,363
They've not had a riot here for a
long, long time,
472
00:29:14,403 --> 00:29:17,283
but I'll tell you something -
this place will go off.
473
00:29:17,323 --> 00:29:19,963
And when this place does go off,
the roof will go, man,
474
00:29:20,003 --> 00:29:21,163
I'm telling you.
475
00:29:22,683 --> 00:29:24,923
ARCHIVE NEWS: It was an explosion
of evil.
476
00:29:24,963 --> 00:29:27,043
The mob, now totally beyond control,
477
00:29:27,083 --> 00:29:30,003
swept through the prison
in an orgy of destruction,
478
00:29:30,043 --> 00:29:33,043
which was unprecedented
in British prison history.
479
00:29:40,803 --> 00:29:44,963
BRONSON: 1990,
the Strangeways riot kicked off.
480
00:29:45,003 --> 00:29:48,043
Three weeks before that kicked off,
481
00:29:48,083 --> 00:29:50,163
I was actually in Strangeways.
482
00:29:50,203 --> 00:29:53,603
Then I moved from Strangeways
to Parkhurst.
483
00:29:55,363 --> 00:29:58,363
I fucking missed it by three weeks.
484
00:30:00,123 --> 00:30:04,483
When I was there, it was bubbling up
then, really bubbling up.
485
00:30:04,523 --> 00:30:07,723
What do you mean bubbling up?
Why was it bubbling up?
486
00:30:07,763 --> 00:30:11,443
Well, slopping out, brutality,
487
00:30:11,483 --> 00:30:13,643
bad food,
488
00:30:13,683 --> 00:30:15,923
cons were three to a cell.
489
00:30:15,963 --> 00:30:18,563
You imagine shitting in a bucket
490
00:30:18,603 --> 00:30:21,243
with another two men
in the same cell.
491
00:30:21,283 --> 00:30:24,083
It is a great regret of mine,
I would have loved...
492
00:30:24,123 --> 00:30:26,323
I think I would have
still fucking been up there.
493
00:30:27,803 --> 00:30:31,203
I did Broadmoor's roof three times.
494
00:30:31,243 --> 00:30:34,443
1981, 1983,
495
00:30:34,483 --> 00:30:38,483
and 1984, I took that roof off.
496
00:30:38,523 --> 00:30:42,923
But the reason I never done '82,
497
00:30:42,963 --> 00:30:47,603
was because I was so fucking
drugged up with the liquid cosh
498
00:30:47,643 --> 00:30:51,043
I couldn't fucking look at a pipe,
let alone climb up it.
499
00:30:56,763 --> 00:30:59,003
GULLS CRY
500
00:31:14,003 --> 00:31:17,363
He picked me up and carried me
around his shoulders.
501
00:31:17,403 --> 00:31:19,883
He threw me down into the middle
of the snooker table.
502
00:31:19,923 --> 00:31:23,363
I may have lost consciousness
for a few seconds, and that's
503
00:31:23,403 --> 00:31:24,723
when he said,
504
00:31:24,763 --> 00:31:27,643
"I'm going to kill you and then I'm
going to kill myself.
505
00:31:27,683 --> 00:31:31,043
"And they can carry both
of us out in body bags."
506
00:31:33,083 --> 00:31:37,323
All I saw was this person behaving
in an absolute deranged manner.
507
00:31:37,363 --> 00:31:41,043
I don't think I've ever, ever seen
anybody behave like that,
508
00:31:41,083 --> 00:31:43,683
apart from him, in any
circumstances.
509
00:31:43,723 --> 00:31:46,283
I was absolutely terrified.
510
00:31:46,323 --> 00:31:48,563
You know, there's no other
word for it.
511
00:31:48,603 --> 00:31:50,363
I was frightened to death.
512
00:31:56,563 --> 00:31:59,363
ARCHIVE NEWS: Charles Bronson
arrived at court, locked up,
513
00:31:59,403 --> 00:32:03,363
and wearing the vivid colours
of a Category A prisoner.
514
00:32:03,403 --> 00:32:06,723
Bronson is arguing that most
of his 30 years in jail
515
00:32:06,763 --> 00:32:09,483
have been spent
in solitary confinement.
516
00:32:09,523 --> 00:32:11,403
That amounts to torture, he says,
517
00:32:11,443 --> 00:32:14,043
and it's what prompted him
to take his hostage.
518
00:32:21,243 --> 00:32:23,443
He saw an opportunity
519
00:32:23,483 --> 00:32:26,923
to kick off at the fact
that he didn't want to move.
520
00:32:26,963 --> 00:32:30,243
Because I believe, all the time
he was in Hull that time,
521
00:32:30,283 --> 00:32:31,803
he was pretty well behaved.
522
00:32:42,843 --> 00:32:45,283
When somebody in that situation
kicks off,
523
00:32:45,323 --> 00:32:46,883
it's got to be a cry for help.
524
00:32:46,923 --> 00:32:50,083
I think he thought he'd reached
the end of the line with it.
525
00:32:50,123 --> 00:32:53,723
He demonstrated to me
classic mood swings.
526
00:32:55,083 --> 00:32:57,923
I did experience his desperation,
if you like.
527
00:32:57,963 --> 00:33:01,123
At the end of it he just didn't seem
to care about himself.
528
00:33:06,483 --> 00:33:07,883
I thought he was dead at one point.
529
00:33:07,923 --> 00:33:11,403
He ripped this hard-wired washing
machine off the wall,
530
00:33:11,443 --> 00:33:13,163
and it kind of went "bang!"
531
00:33:15,003 --> 00:33:17,843
I thought, "Oh, my God,
he's electrocuted himself."
532
00:33:17,883 --> 00:33:20,243
For what seemed like an eternity,
he's laid flat on his back
533
00:33:20,283 --> 00:33:24,203
in this bit where all these broken
washing machines and fridges were.
534
00:33:24,243 --> 00:33:27,643
And then he just stood up,
as though nothing had happened.
535
00:33:30,203 --> 00:33:33,043
I'm sure he was under a great deal
of mental duress.
536
00:33:33,083 --> 00:33:36,763
Who wouldn't be? But he didn't
appear to be the kind of person
537
00:33:36,803 --> 00:33:39,163
who would do that deliberately.
538
00:33:39,203 --> 00:33:40,603
He had to have his show.
539
00:33:40,643 --> 00:33:43,923
"This is the Charlie Show.
This is what everybody expects.
540
00:33:43,963 --> 00:33:47,243
"This is what everybody who loves
me likes me to do.
541
00:33:47,283 --> 00:33:51,163
"Let's have a bit of a hostage
taking and smash things up."
542
00:33:51,203 --> 00:33:54,883
He was more like that for the
bulk of the time I was in there
543
00:33:54,923 --> 00:33:58,883
than he was suicidal
or appearing to be depressed.
544
00:34:04,723 --> 00:34:08,163
ARCHIVE NEWS: From the dock he heard
his appeal against conviction
545
00:34:08,203 --> 00:34:11,723
and life sentence thrown out,
but the judges did accept
546
00:34:11,763 --> 00:34:16,283
his harrowing account of brutal
treatment and isolation
547
00:34:16,323 --> 00:34:19,403
during most of his 30 years
in prison.
548
00:34:19,443 --> 00:34:22,963
The judges agreed that Bronson
may have changed his ways
549
00:34:23,003 --> 00:34:26,683
and urged the parole board to
consider that when the time came.
550
00:34:26,723 --> 00:34:29,403
30 years ago,
he was a failed bank robber.
551
00:34:29,443 --> 00:34:31,323
What's the criminal justice
system done for him?
552
00:34:31,363 --> 00:34:33,523
30 year sentence.
Now, that's not clever.
553
00:34:33,563 --> 00:34:35,883
The criminal justice system
and the prison system,
554
00:34:35,923 --> 00:34:39,083
the rehabilitation - it all needs
to answer that point.
555
00:34:40,883 --> 00:34:44,043
Bronson still doesn't know just how
long he must stay in prison.
556
00:34:44,083 --> 00:34:47,803
There's confusion because
he's serving two sentences,
557
00:34:47,843 --> 00:34:50,563
and even his lawyers don't
know when one might end
558
00:34:50,603 --> 00:34:52,003
and the other begin.
559
00:34:52,043 --> 00:34:55,883
At best, he'll probably have to do
another four years inside.
560
00:34:55,923 --> 00:34:58,763
Martin Brunt, Sky News,
at the Old Bailey.
561
00:35:00,523 --> 00:35:04,403
BRONSON: At the end of the day,
Martin, I can't put my finger on it
562
00:35:04,443 --> 00:35:08,563
and say why it happened
or if it's going to happen again,
563
00:35:08,603 --> 00:35:11,723
cos, basically,
564
00:35:11,763 --> 00:35:15,443
I go through periods of disturbance
of the mind.
565
00:35:21,163 --> 00:35:25,323
See, what you've got to realise,
son, when I got this life sentence,
566
00:35:25,363 --> 00:35:27,723
my tariff was three years.
567
00:35:29,003 --> 00:35:32,043
I'm now 18 years over that tariff.
568
00:35:32,083 --> 00:35:33,323
Unbelievable.
569
00:35:33,363 --> 00:35:34,763
In any one eye's...
570
00:35:36,243 --> 00:35:37,763
..that's not right, mate.
571
00:36:13,003 --> 00:36:16,363
People have got no idea what really
goes on behind the scenes
572
00:36:16,403 --> 00:36:18,163
in the prison system.
573
00:36:18,203 --> 00:36:21,683
England's about "bash, bash, bash!"
574
00:36:23,603 --> 00:36:24,883
It is run on violence.
575
00:36:24,923 --> 00:36:29,003
You meet it with violence
and then you're punished for it.
576
00:36:29,043 --> 00:36:31,163
You are in the belly of the beast.
577
00:36:31,203 --> 00:36:34,043
You are in a jungle
full of violence.
578
00:36:34,083 --> 00:36:36,723
You know death's in the air.
579
00:36:36,763 --> 00:36:38,123
Any of you lot out there now,
580
00:36:38,163 --> 00:36:42,923
I'm going to lock you in your
bedroom for the next 47 years.
581
00:36:42,963 --> 00:36:45,563
You're coming out
for one hour a day.
582
00:36:45,603 --> 00:36:47,083
If you don't like it, tough shit,
583
00:36:47,123 --> 00:36:49,363
we're going to spray you
with pepper spray.
584
00:36:49,403 --> 00:36:51,963
Wrap you up, zip tie you,
sling you in a concrete box,
585
00:36:52,003 --> 00:36:54,323
a strip box - naked.
586
00:36:54,363 --> 00:36:56,843
If I was an animal in a zoo,
587
00:36:56,883 --> 00:36:59,123
I would bite someone.
588
00:36:59,163 --> 00:37:00,803
And that's what he does,
589
00:37:00,843 --> 00:37:02,763
cos it's like, "Aaaagh!"
590
00:37:05,963 --> 00:37:09,443
They actually think you've
been a complete and utter twat.
591
00:37:09,483 --> 00:37:11,243
You've been a horrible bastard.
592
00:37:11,283 --> 00:37:13,203
INAUDIBLE
#S
593
00:37:13,243 --> 00:37:18,003
But also, that doesn't excuse
the way that you've been treated
594
00:37:18,043 --> 00:37:20,923
and the way that they
have treated you.
595
00:37:20,963 --> 00:37:22,803
Move you every two weeks.
596
00:37:22,843 --> 00:37:26,483
We looked through the records
and in one 12 month period,
597
00:37:26,523 --> 00:37:28,723
you got moved nearly 20 times.
598
00:37:31,483 --> 00:37:33,283
You get on the merry go round -
599
00:37:33,323 --> 00:37:36,003
going round and round
and round and round.
600
00:37:36,043 --> 00:37:37,923
Wherever it might be, up the M1,
601
00:37:37,963 --> 00:37:41,123
down to bleeding Worcestershire
to Long Lartin,
602
00:37:41,163 --> 00:37:43,163
Long Lartin to Belmarsh,
603
00:37:43,203 --> 00:37:45,203
Belmarsh to Woodhill,
604
00:37:45,243 --> 00:37:48,203
Woodhill to bleeding Whitemoor.
605
00:37:48,243 --> 00:37:50,963
ARCHIVE NEWS: Prison reformers say
it's an extreme example
606
00:37:51,003 --> 00:37:52,883
of a practice known as ghosting.
607
00:37:52,923 --> 00:37:54,923
Prisoners are locked up at night,
608
00:37:54,963 --> 00:37:57,563
and then the next morning,
as they're unlocked, they find
609
00:37:57,603 --> 00:37:59,803
that the cell next door is empty.
610
00:37:59,843 --> 00:38:03,203
The prisoner has disappeared.
He's disappeared like a ghost.
611
00:38:03,243 --> 00:38:07,643
It's a very inhumane system
used as an informal punishment.
612
00:38:09,603 --> 00:38:12,403
You've always got the fear of the
door being opened at two or three
613
00:38:12,443 --> 00:38:14,523
in the morning
or five in the morning...
614
00:38:15,923 --> 00:38:18,123
..with the riot squad and a camera.
615
00:38:18,163 --> 00:38:20,683
I realised that I had a bit
of a tick.
616
00:38:20,723 --> 00:38:23,883
When I came off the Category A
system I was doing this...
617
00:38:25,243 --> 00:38:28,523
All the time,
cos my door would go and I'd look.
618
00:38:28,563 --> 00:38:30,203
I want to know if they're coming in.
619
00:38:30,243 --> 00:38:32,443
If they're coming in,
you've got to get ready.
620
00:38:32,483 --> 00:38:34,923
So, you're always looking over your
shoulder at the door.
621
00:38:34,963 --> 00:38:36,443
The flap goes, you look.
622
00:38:36,483 --> 00:38:38,603
Flap goes, you get back to doing
what you're doing.
623
00:38:38,643 --> 00:38:40,483
You do it without even realising.
624
00:38:40,523 --> 00:38:44,123
That's the type of treatment
Charlie is going through.
625
00:38:44,163 --> 00:38:45,523
That's not right.
626
00:38:46,563 --> 00:38:49,203
BRONSON: I was regularly brutalised.
627
00:38:49,243 --> 00:38:51,883
My years were spent in solitary
confinement.
628
00:38:51,923 --> 00:38:53,443
They drove me mad.
629
00:38:53,483 --> 00:38:57,443
I ended up certified insane
and going to the asylums.
630
00:38:58,683 --> 00:39:01,523
I wasn't an angel,
but they drove me mad.
631
00:39:01,563 --> 00:39:04,603
Got caught in a trap,
there was no way out.
632
00:39:04,643 --> 00:39:06,323
And that's how it was.
633
00:39:14,723 --> 00:39:18,923
MUSIC: Champions League Anthem
by Tony Britten
634
00:40:06,443 --> 00:40:08,003
It's important, he feels,
635
00:40:08,043 --> 00:40:11,723
that the public are aware of all the
evidence that's put forward
636
00:40:11,763 --> 00:40:16,083
as to why on the government's case
that he should remain in custody.
637
00:40:18,283 --> 00:40:21,403
One of the problems that arises
because the parole system
638
00:40:21,443 --> 00:40:23,323
has been so secretive up to now,
639
00:40:23,363 --> 00:40:27,363
is that we don't really understand
why the decision has been made.
640
00:40:27,403 --> 00:40:31,003
Bronson's got to show
that he is safe to be released
641
00:40:31,043 --> 00:40:34,323
as far as can be reasonably
ascertained.
642
00:40:34,363 --> 00:40:37,083
It's not an easy decision to make,
643
00:40:37,123 --> 00:40:41,723
but it's a good thing that this
will, if this happens in public,
644
00:40:41,763 --> 00:40:44,523
because people will be able to see
the thoroughness and care
645
00:40:44,563 --> 00:40:47,523
with which that decision is made.
646
00:40:47,563 --> 00:40:49,083
It will happen.
647
00:40:49,123 --> 00:40:50,963
I'm committed to making it happen.
648
00:40:51,003 --> 00:40:53,603
But we may lose individual battles.
649
00:40:53,643 --> 00:40:55,163
But it's about winning the war.
650
00:40:56,723 --> 00:41:00,283
BRONSON: Certain people
in the penal system
651
00:41:00,323 --> 00:41:05,483
would soon as see me leave prison
in a body bag or on a zimmerframe.
652
00:41:05,523 --> 00:41:08,123
I've upset so many people
653
00:41:08,163 --> 00:41:10,163
in the high places.
654
00:41:10,203 --> 00:41:12,203
They just don't want me out.
655
00:41:14,083 --> 00:41:16,803
Charlie is someone who's been
heavily convicted of violence.
656
00:41:16,843 --> 00:41:18,443
There's no escaping that.
657
00:41:18,483 --> 00:41:21,403
But he's recognised
that he needs to change,
658
00:41:21,443 --> 00:41:24,323
he needs to adapt, if he's ever
going to stand a chance
659
00:41:24,363 --> 00:41:26,323
of being released.
660
00:41:26,363 --> 00:41:29,443
Charlie's under no illusions
that if he ever gets the prospect
661
00:41:29,483 --> 00:41:32,003
of being released, if he messes up,
662
00:41:32,043 --> 00:41:34,843
he's unlikely to ever get
a second chance.
663
00:41:36,363 --> 00:41:39,763
It's going to open the floodgates
for thousands of others.
664
00:41:56,363 --> 00:41:58,043
All right, my old son!
665
00:41:58,083 --> 00:42:00,203
All right, Dad!
666
00:42:00,243 --> 00:42:02,083
Do you want a couple of rounds?
667
00:42:02,123 --> 00:42:04,483
You're only saying that cos you're
on the other end of a camera,
668
00:42:04,523 --> 00:42:06,803
you wouldn't be saying
that if I was there, would you?
669
00:42:06,843 --> 00:42:08,123
HE GROWLS
670
00:42:08,163 --> 00:42:09,523
Anyway, how are you?
671
00:42:09,563 --> 00:42:11,563
I'm all right. How are you, Dad?
All right?
672
00:42:11,603 --> 00:42:13,363
I'll tell you what,
673
00:42:13,403 --> 00:42:15,883
you have a wonderful life, you know.
674
00:42:15,923 --> 00:42:18,283
That's because I've worked hard
and stayed out of trouble
675
00:42:18,323 --> 00:42:21,083
and not robbed any post offices
or jewellers.
676
00:42:26,683 --> 00:42:27,923
I'll put my hand up.
677
00:42:29,563 --> 00:42:31,483
I've done some mad things.
678
00:42:33,763 --> 00:42:35,523
I've been a nasty bastard.
679
00:42:37,163 --> 00:42:40,763
But I've found my true self
680
00:42:40,803 --> 00:42:42,603
through my art.
681
00:42:44,803 --> 00:42:46,363
My art now is my life.
682
00:42:47,883 --> 00:42:50,723
When I create a piece of art
683
00:42:50,763 --> 00:42:53,123
I create a piece of myself,
684
00:42:54,403 --> 00:42:56,563
I can see art now behind you.
685
00:43:03,803 --> 00:43:05,643
Now I'm an artist,
686
00:43:05,683 --> 00:43:08,323
I'm coming out with a gift
687
00:43:08,363 --> 00:43:09,963
and I'm proud of it.
688
00:43:10,003 --> 00:43:13,923
I'm more proud of my art
than I am anything.
689
00:43:13,963 --> 00:43:15,763
What I've basically done...
690
00:43:17,283 --> 00:43:21,883
..I've swapped my sawn off shotgun
for a sawn off paintbrush.
691
00:43:21,923 --> 00:43:23,963
HE LAUGHS
692
00:43:24,003 --> 00:43:25,483
And it's lovely.
693
00:43:25,523 --> 00:43:27,203
It's beautiful.
694
00:43:27,243 --> 00:43:29,403
When I sit there and do a piece
of art...
695
00:43:31,163 --> 00:43:34,483
..it feels like I'm part
of the human race.
696
00:43:35,723 --> 00:43:37,643
Feel lovely and happy.
697
00:43:39,763 --> 00:43:42,283
It gets rid of all my frustrations
698
00:43:42,323 --> 00:43:45,243
and my tension and my madness.
699
00:43:45,283 --> 00:43:47,203
I'm an artist!
700
00:43:47,243 --> 00:43:50,323
People have got to start
believing it and seeing it.
701
00:43:51,683 --> 00:43:54,243
I've actually found
what I love in life.
702
00:43:55,883 --> 00:43:58,003
Great visit.
703
00:43:58,043 --> 00:44:00,043
You're looking good.
704
00:44:00,083 --> 00:44:02,563
Keep winning.
705
00:44:02,603 --> 00:44:04,203
SINGS: # We'll meet again
706
00:44:04,243 --> 00:44:05,923
# Don't know where...#
707
00:44:14,323 --> 00:44:17,963
I can only say from what I've seen
of when I visit him,
708
00:44:18,003 --> 00:44:20,603
I think he's a lovely bloke who's
got a heart of gold and all this.
709
00:44:20,643 --> 00:44:24,963
Don't get me wrong, I reckon there's
a button that you can press...
710
00:44:25,003 --> 00:44:26,443
And he could explode.
711
00:44:26,483 --> 00:44:30,843
..and Mr Bronson turns up
and his eyes roll, and you're like,
712
00:44:30,883 --> 00:44:32,443
"Oh, my God."
713
00:44:32,483 --> 00:44:35,003
Do you think that's why
he's still in the cage?
714
00:44:35,043 --> 00:44:37,363
Do you think they're scared of him?
715
00:44:37,403 --> 00:44:40,043
Just in case he could lose it.
Yeah.
716
00:44:40,083 --> 00:44:42,163
He's in a cage in a cage.
717
00:44:42,203 --> 00:44:44,443
How does that make you feel
about your son knowing he's there?
718
00:44:44,483 --> 00:44:46,603
Well, if he came home tomorrow
and he lived with me,
719
00:44:46,643 --> 00:44:48,243
I'd put him
in a fucking cage as well!
720
00:44:48,283 --> 00:44:50,363
THEY LAUGH
Would you like him out?
721
00:44:50,403 --> 00:44:51,923
Yeah, for tea!
SHE LAUGHS
722
00:44:54,563 --> 00:44:56,883
What am I in jail for?
723
00:44:56,923 --> 00:44:58,483
People don't believe it.
724
00:44:58,523 --> 00:45:00,563
They think I'm a serial killer.
725
00:45:06,003 --> 00:45:11,363
Hopefully I've got a date soon
for my public parole hearing.
726
00:45:11,403 --> 00:45:15,363
I'm the first man in Britain
to have a public one.
727
00:45:17,123 --> 00:45:18,763
And the reason I'm doing that,
728
00:45:18,803 --> 00:45:22,563
is cos I'm going to expose
the system and what it's done to me.
729
00:45:23,803 --> 00:45:27,163
It's all coming out in the wash,
my side of the story,
730
00:45:27,203 --> 00:45:30,043
and the truth is going to shock
the planet.
731
00:45:37,683 --> 00:45:40,203
I get people messaging me
all the time saying,
732
00:45:40,243 --> 00:45:42,563
"You're full of shit.
You're not Charles Bronson's son.
733
00:45:42,603 --> 00:45:44,403
"You're a liar."
734
00:45:44,443 --> 00:45:47,323
All these people have stuck
their nose
735
00:45:47,363 --> 00:45:50,123
in our personal domestic business.
736
00:45:51,203 --> 00:45:53,683
They should be a-fucking-shamed
of themselves.
737
00:45:57,723 --> 00:46:00,923
You know what, that would be
really lovely for him, wouldn't it?
738
00:46:00,963 --> 00:46:03,803
Got a nice area for his barbecue
out there.
739
00:46:04,843 --> 00:46:07,443
It's sort of like a little bit
secluded, out of the way,
740
00:46:07,483 --> 00:46:09,083
do you know what I mean?
741
00:46:09,123 --> 00:46:11,043
I'm not sure what the neighbours
will think.
742
00:46:11,083 --> 00:46:13,443
I think there'll be some genuine
fear about him kicking off
743
00:46:13,483 --> 00:46:16,043
when he gets out,
because you've got to remember,
744
00:46:16,083 --> 00:46:18,803
when you mention the name
Charles Bronson to anybody,
745
00:46:18,843 --> 00:46:21,323
all they picture in their head
straight away is,
746
00:46:21,363 --> 00:46:23,483
"Murderer, killer, psychopath.
747
00:46:23,523 --> 00:46:26,763
"Britain's most dangerous prisoner.
Britain's most violent person."
748
00:46:42,683 --> 00:46:45,683
Subtitles by Red Bee Media
60445
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.