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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,043 --> 00:00:07,523 This programme contains very strong language from the start and discussions related to violence that some viewers may find upsetting 2 00:00:12,963 --> 00:00:15,203 Eh, this is fucking mental, this. 3 00:00:15,243 --> 00:00:16,723 LAUGHTER 4 00:00:16,763 --> 00:00:20,203 It is, it's fucking mental. 5 00:00:20,243 --> 00:00:22,283 How you doing? 6 00:00:22,323 --> 00:00:28,483 I never believed I'd have a fucking visit like Star Trek. 7 00:00:28,523 --> 00:00:30,443 And it's only a little screen, you know? 8 00:00:30,483 --> 00:00:32,323 But seeing you perfect. 9 00:00:32,363 --> 00:00:33,603 It's mad, isn't it? 10 00:00:46,003 --> 00:00:47,483 It's fucking madness. 11 00:00:47,523 --> 00:00:50,603 Now, I can see something in the background there, 12 00:00:50,643 --> 00:00:52,163 in like an arch. 13 00:00:52,203 --> 00:00:53,523 That's the kitchen. 14 00:00:53,563 --> 00:00:54,963 Oh, is that a kitchen? 15 00:00:55,003 --> 00:00:57,963 Yeah. Fucking hell. 16 00:00:58,003 --> 00:01:00,403 Yeah, fucking... 17 00:01:00,443 --> 00:01:03,803 What's that to the right, next to the paintings? 18 00:01:03,843 --> 00:01:06,403 Er, that's the living room. 19 00:01:06,443 --> 00:01:08,203 Fucking beautiful house. 20 00:01:18,203 --> 00:01:20,043 So are you behaving yourself? 21 00:01:20,083 --> 00:01:22,963 Listen, they're treating me well here. 22 00:01:23,003 --> 00:01:26,763 A few bits of silly nonsense here and there. 23 00:01:26,803 --> 00:01:29,843 So when the parole board eventually say to you, 24 00:01:29,883 --> 00:01:31,083 why should we let you out? 25 00:01:31,123 --> 00:01:33,243 How do they know you're not going to attack anyone? 26 00:01:33,283 --> 00:01:36,323 Because, you know you haven't got the best past of you, to be honest. 27 00:01:36,363 --> 00:01:40,603 Of a horrible, nasty, vicious, violent past. 28 00:01:41,843 --> 00:01:43,923 I've never killed anyone. 29 00:01:43,963 --> 00:01:47,403 I've never armed a woman, never harmed a child. 30 00:01:47,443 --> 00:01:50,763 I'm focused, I'm settled. 31 00:01:50,803 --> 00:01:55,283 I can actually smell and taste freedom, 32 00:01:55,323 --> 00:01:58,443 like I've never, ever done in my life. 33 00:01:58,483 --> 00:02:02,403 I'm now anti-crime, anti-violent... 34 00:02:02,443 --> 00:02:06,523 What the fuck am I still in prison for? 35 00:02:17,003 --> 00:02:19,923 The system has labelled me for so many years. 36 00:02:21,203 --> 00:02:25,923 Untameable, untreatable, unpredictable, dangerous. 37 00:02:25,963 --> 00:02:29,803 Blah, blah, blah, I've had every label you can think of. 38 00:02:29,843 --> 00:02:33,323 But at the end of the day, what people don't realise, 39 00:02:33,363 --> 00:02:39,083 since George, my son, has come into my life, I've changed. 40 00:02:39,123 --> 00:02:42,843 And George has got me the best legal team in the world... 41 00:02:42,883 --> 00:02:45,003 ..and I'm coming home. 42 00:02:45,043 --> 00:02:47,003 I'm definitely coming home. 43 00:02:47,043 --> 00:02:51,203 Cards on the table, do I sound like Britain's most dangerous man? 44 00:02:51,243 --> 00:02:52,683 Come on. 45 00:02:52,723 --> 00:02:56,843 I'm 68 years old, and all I want to do is get out 46 00:02:56,883 --> 00:03:00,243 there and enjoy my fucking life, what's left of it. 47 00:03:06,403 --> 00:03:09,243 The problem my dad's got, as soon as he walks in the courtroom 48 00:03:09,283 --> 00:03:12,003 or a parole board, and they see that name on the top of the sheet, 49 00:03:12,043 --> 00:03:16,803 Charles Bronson, automatically alarm bells start ringing. 50 00:03:16,843 --> 00:03:19,403 I mean, who's going to want to release Charles Bronson? 51 00:03:35,523 --> 00:03:40,243 Over the years, I've represented a number of notorious prisoners. 52 00:03:40,283 --> 00:03:43,723 I'm used to dealing with people that are stuck in the system. 53 00:03:43,763 --> 00:03:46,203 If there's one prisoner that's stuck in the system, 54 00:03:46,243 --> 00:03:48,163 his name is Charlie Bronson. 55 00:03:52,003 --> 00:03:54,523 There is no escape in his past, I'm not sitting here 56 00:03:54,563 --> 00:03:55,883 to justify his past. 57 00:03:55,923 --> 00:03:59,803 He owns it, he accepts that he was a very violent individual. 58 00:03:59,843 --> 00:04:02,123 Charlie's looked at the old him. 59 00:04:02,163 --> 00:04:06,083 He's done work on that and now the focus is on the new him. 60 00:04:07,643 --> 00:04:11,163 Any life sentence prisoner has to go in front of the parole board 61 00:04:11,203 --> 00:04:13,163 in order to be released. 62 00:04:13,203 --> 00:04:16,203 The parole board are effectively looking into a crystal ball 63 00:04:16,243 --> 00:04:18,723 and they're predicting where an individual is going 64 00:04:18,763 --> 00:04:20,963 to reoffend in the future. 65 00:04:21,003 --> 00:04:25,403 The ways of doing that is looking at past behaviour, current behaviour, 66 00:04:25,443 --> 00:04:28,043 and what the future is going to look like. 67 00:04:28,083 --> 00:04:29,603 Do you want to win this one? 68 00:04:29,643 --> 00:04:31,443 I certainly want to win this one. 69 00:04:31,483 --> 00:04:34,843 This is, hands down... 70 00:04:34,883 --> 00:04:37,483 ..the closest he's ever come to release. 71 00:04:57,963 --> 00:05:02,483 ARCHIVE: There's an experiment being conducted behind these locked gates. 72 00:05:02,523 --> 00:05:06,363 But Hull prison's A wing is testing a softly, softly regime 73 00:05:06,403 --> 00:05:09,283 on some of the most dangerous and disruptive inmates 74 00:05:09,323 --> 00:05:12,043 sent from long term dispersal jails. 75 00:05:19,683 --> 00:05:24,723 These people have been fighting the system for a long, long time. 76 00:05:24,763 --> 00:05:28,923 When they come here, we don't fight back. 77 00:05:28,963 --> 00:05:32,003 We try and negotiate things through. 78 00:05:32,043 --> 00:05:33,963 A wing was very well set up... 79 00:05:34,003 --> 00:05:36,483 Gym... 80 00:05:36,523 --> 00:05:41,603 Big central sort of social area on the ground floor. 81 00:05:41,643 --> 00:05:46,003 And basically, they spent most of their time 82 00:05:46,043 --> 00:05:49,083 in that area rather than being locked up. 83 00:05:49,123 --> 00:05:53,043 So compared to some of the other wings, it was, 84 00:05:53,083 --> 00:05:54,963 I'd say, quite privileged. 85 00:06:07,923 --> 00:06:10,043 I didn't go on A wing that often. 86 00:06:10,083 --> 00:06:12,763 It would be like any head teacher does. 87 00:06:12,803 --> 00:06:17,123 If I needed to cover, I'd cover, wherever it was. 88 00:06:17,163 --> 00:06:20,163 So I just went in and substituted it for one of my staff. 89 00:06:20,203 --> 00:06:23,163 And it's a slightly more dangerous situation, but... 90 00:06:23,203 --> 00:06:25,083 ..it's still basically the same. 91 00:06:25,123 --> 00:06:28,243 This guy was expecting me at 2:00 or whatever it was, 92 00:06:28,283 --> 00:06:30,123 so I just went on and did it. 93 00:06:30,163 --> 00:06:34,723 There was no problem at all until Bronson appeared on the scene. 94 00:06:45,003 --> 00:06:49,443 But as soon as Bronson burst in, the prison officer scarpered. 95 00:06:52,203 --> 00:06:54,403 I was terrified out of my mind. 96 00:06:56,323 --> 00:06:58,963 Just like five minutes of horror. 97 00:06:59,003 --> 00:07:01,443 But I've never been as frightened. 98 00:07:02,963 --> 00:07:05,043 They talk about, you think you see your whole life 99 00:07:05,083 --> 00:07:06,683 passing in front of your eyes. 100 00:07:06,723 --> 00:07:07,923 You do. 101 00:07:22,123 --> 00:07:26,843 Bronson just burst into the room and grabbed me around the neck. 102 00:07:26,883 --> 00:07:29,923 Then he hit me in the face and I got lots of the verbals. 103 00:07:29,963 --> 00:07:31,763 "You're all going to fucking die. 104 00:07:31,803 --> 00:07:33,363 "You're going to die." 105 00:07:33,403 --> 00:07:37,483 All this for ages, so I just kept absolutely quiet. 106 00:07:37,523 --> 00:07:39,603 I thought, I'm going to die now. 107 00:07:39,643 --> 00:07:41,563 What's he going to do? How's he going to do it? 108 00:07:41,603 --> 00:07:42,923 You know? 109 00:07:46,003 --> 00:07:49,603 Charlie then went down on one knee and jabbed the knife into my ribs. 110 00:07:49,643 --> 00:07:53,443 I could feel this point through my shirt. 111 00:07:53,483 --> 00:07:54,963 I do remember that. 112 00:07:56,243 --> 00:07:59,803 "Take your last breath because this knife is going in you." 113 00:08:01,643 --> 00:08:04,843 Did you remember how you were feeling at this point? 114 00:08:06,243 --> 00:08:07,603 Terrified. 115 00:08:12,523 --> 00:08:15,403 The siege at Hull Prison, which began when an inmate, 116 00:08:15,443 --> 00:08:18,723 Charles Bronson, described as Britain's most dangerous prisoner, 117 00:08:18,763 --> 00:08:22,843 took a member of staff hostage, has ended after 43 hours. 118 00:08:24,323 --> 00:08:26,563 His victim this time was a prison teacher 119 00:08:26,603 --> 00:08:30,723 Bronson took hostage at knife-point during a two day siege. 120 00:08:32,443 --> 00:08:34,923 He defended himself during the hearing and got 121 00:08:34,963 --> 00:08:36,523 some charges dropped. 122 00:08:36,563 --> 00:08:39,883 But in the end, the jury found him guilty of false imprisonment. 123 00:08:41,363 --> 00:08:44,363 Bronson told a judge once he had eaten more porridge 124 00:08:44,403 --> 00:08:45,963 than the three bears. 125 00:08:46,003 --> 00:08:48,963 Now that diet will continue for a lot longer, 126 00:08:49,003 --> 00:08:52,083 after being given a life sentence for the latest in a series 127 00:08:52,123 --> 00:08:54,283 of attacks inside prison. 128 00:08:54,323 --> 00:08:58,363 We took great pride at one point in saying that I was the only one 129 00:08:58,403 --> 00:09:01,803 of his hostages who hadn't physically shit himself, 130 00:09:01,843 --> 00:09:04,283 and he really admired me for that. 131 00:09:11,843 --> 00:09:14,123 Do you remember that Phil Danielson? 132 00:09:14,163 --> 00:09:15,323 Yeah, the teacher, yeah. 133 00:09:15,363 --> 00:09:17,123 The teacher you took hostage. 134 00:09:17,163 --> 00:09:19,843 I went over the top, as I normally do. 135 00:09:19,883 --> 00:09:21,723 I never hurt the man. 136 00:09:21,763 --> 00:09:23,883 Mentally, obviously I did. 137 00:09:23,923 --> 00:09:25,923 He didn't deserve what he got... 138 00:09:27,083 --> 00:09:31,123 ..but did I deserve a life sentence just for roughing him up? 139 00:09:31,163 --> 00:09:35,003 If I'd have killed him, I'd have probably been out by now. 140 00:09:35,043 --> 00:09:40,763 When you're locked me in a concrete coffin 23 hours of a 24 hour day, 141 00:09:40,803 --> 00:09:44,643 sometimes in life you got to do something mad. 142 00:09:44,683 --> 00:09:48,723 The madder it is, the more dangerous is, the better it fucking is. 143 00:09:50,003 --> 00:09:53,603 But I've got to be honest with you, I've had a fucking party here. 144 00:09:59,883 --> 00:10:01,883 At first they said I had PTSD. 145 00:10:01,923 --> 00:10:05,003 After a couple of breakdowns I said, "Why am I still feeling it? 146 00:10:05,043 --> 00:10:07,043 "Don't I get better?" 147 00:10:07,083 --> 00:10:09,243 They couldn't really give me an answer. 148 00:10:09,283 --> 00:10:12,923 I think they called it acute anxiety disorder, or something like that. 149 00:10:12,963 --> 00:10:14,763 I guess I'll never get over that. 150 00:10:16,123 --> 00:10:20,243 The damage that was caused by him as moulded my whole life 151 00:10:20,283 --> 00:10:22,883 since 2000 and... 152 00:10:22,923 --> 00:10:24,443 Well, since 1999. 153 00:10:24,483 --> 00:10:27,443 23 years nearly, it's moulded my whole life. 154 00:10:27,483 --> 00:10:32,923 So it'll be with me for the rest of my days. 155 00:10:32,963 --> 00:10:37,923 Because if it hadn't happened, I would have probably just about 156 00:10:37,963 --> 00:10:41,483 now at 60 been thinking about retiring. 157 00:10:41,523 --> 00:10:43,163 You couldn't go back to work? 158 00:10:43,203 --> 00:10:45,723 No, no, never worked. 159 00:10:45,763 --> 00:10:50,243 Mentally, I couldn't bring myself around to doing it. 160 00:10:50,283 --> 00:10:52,523 And I suppose that's why they decided 161 00:10:52,563 --> 00:10:54,323 that I was unfit to teach. 162 00:11:05,483 --> 00:11:07,643 I've no idea what feelings were going through 163 00:11:07,683 --> 00:11:09,083 Phil Danielson's mind. 164 00:11:09,123 --> 00:11:11,523 I imagine he'd be absolutely shitting himself. 165 00:11:11,563 --> 00:11:14,523 And Charlie should have got a stiff sentence for that. 166 00:11:14,563 --> 00:11:17,843 But why did they give him a life sentence? 167 00:11:17,883 --> 00:11:20,523 Basically they did that so they've got complete and utter 168 00:11:20,563 --> 00:11:24,083 control of him for the rest of his entire life. 169 00:11:24,123 --> 00:11:27,123 One thing could not be disputed... 170 00:11:27,163 --> 00:11:29,843 He had kidnapped me and it carries life. 171 00:11:30,963 --> 00:11:35,523 On a personal level, what he did to me and my life, 172 00:11:35,563 --> 00:11:37,203 I'll never forgive him. 173 00:12:08,763 --> 00:12:11,563 The Parole Board doesn't have to show that Bronson needs 174 00:12:11,603 --> 00:12:12,963 to be kept in prison. 175 00:12:13,003 --> 00:12:16,003 He has to show he's safe to release. 176 00:12:16,043 --> 00:12:20,363 And to do that, they'll look at three sources of evidence. 177 00:12:20,403 --> 00:12:25,323 So one is they'll have a dossier of evidence that describes 178 00:12:25,363 --> 00:12:29,603 what Bronson has done since he started offending. 179 00:12:29,643 --> 00:12:33,483 The second thing will be the evidence of the people who've 180 00:12:33,523 --> 00:12:35,643 worked with Bronson while he's been in prison. 181 00:12:35,683 --> 00:12:38,523 So that would be quite often, what's the assessment of psychologists? 182 00:12:38,563 --> 00:12:41,403 Might be prison staff, there might be his probation officer, 183 00:12:41,443 --> 00:12:43,963 there'll be other professionals who've worked with Brunson. 184 00:12:44,003 --> 00:12:47,803 And then finally Bronson himself will be questioned. 185 00:12:47,843 --> 00:12:51,483 Can the Parole Board be confident that if he's released, 186 00:12:51,523 --> 00:12:54,363 he won't commit another serious offence? 187 00:13:16,123 --> 00:13:21,643 I think he's done his time and he should have been out years ago. 188 00:13:21,683 --> 00:13:25,563 He's been the perfect son to me, always and showed me 189 00:13:25,603 --> 00:13:27,243 respect and everything. 190 00:13:27,283 --> 00:13:29,563 When he writes to me sometimes on the envelope, 191 00:13:29,603 --> 00:13:30,923 it's got, "to the duchess." 192 00:13:30,963 --> 00:13:33,763 He always call you the duchess when we go and visit him. 193 00:13:33,803 --> 00:13:36,843 I daren't tell you what I call him sometimes. 194 00:13:41,763 --> 00:13:45,923 I think about him every day, I think about my husband every day. 195 00:13:45,963 --> 00:13:49,563 The only thing he was a bit possessive, very jealous of me, 196 00:13:49,603 --> 00:13:53,243 he was, he's hit a few in the pubs, I've had. 197 00:13:53,283 --> 00:13:54,643 Charlie's dad? 198 00:13:54,683 --> 00:13:56,963 Yeah, he's hit a few. 199 00:13:57,003 --> 00:13:59,563 Right, do you reckon that's where Charlie might have got his... 200 00:13:59,603 --> 00:14:02,843 I don't know, he's... You see, Joe was a boxer. Right. 201 00:14:02,883 --> 00:14:06,323 And he had a bit of a short fuse, as they say. 202 00:14:06,363 --> 00:14:09,963 It was like Sergeant Major, talked to a soldier. 203 00:14:10,003 --> 00:14:12,843 You know, you've got to do this, you've got to be right, 204 00:14:12,883 --> 00:14:15,243 and treat people right and things like that. 205 00:14:15,283 --> 00:14:18,283 Where did it all go wrong for Charlie? 206 00:14:18,323 --> 00:14:20,603 What was the defining moment where you thought, 207 00:14:20,643 --> 00:14:23,003 "oh, hold on a minute." 208 00:14:23,043 --> 00:14:25,963 I think he started stealing. What did he steal? 209 00:14:26,003 --> 00:14:29,483 I remember going in his bedroom one day and he had pencils 210 00:14:29,523 --> 00:14:31,763 and little notebooks. 211 00:14:31,803 --> 00:14:34,523 And I said to him, "where'd you get these?" 212 00:14:34,563 --> 00:14:36,963 "Woolworths..." He told me the truth. 213 00:14:37,003 --> 00:14:38,643 "Woolworths," he said. 214 00:14:38,683 --> 00:14:40,603 I said, "Where did you get the money for them?" 215 00:14:40,643 --> 00:14:43,123 He said, "I took them, mum." He told me. 216 00:14:43,163 --> 00:14:45,283 Oh, right, so just completely straight... 217 00:14:45,323 --> 00:14:48,323 I know it's only little things like that, nothing... 218 00:14:48,363 --> 00:14:50,083 ..bad. 219 00:14:50,123 --> 00:14:52,243 ARCHIVE: The Cheshire town of Ellesmere Port, 220 00:14:52,283 --> 00:14:55,323 which will eventually resettle families from Liverpool 221 00:14:55,363 --> 00:14:58,163 and the overcrowded towns on the Wirral Peninsula. 222 00:14:58,203 --> 00:15:01,203 The estate provided a typical cross section of the community. 223 00:15:01,243 --> 00:15:05,763 My mother and father moved to Ellesmere Port and he missed 224 00:15:05,803 --> 00:15:08,403 his grandparents a lot. 225 00:15:08,443 --> 00:15:11,923 So he said to me one day, he said, I think I'm going to go and move 226 00:15:11,963 --> 00:15:15,203 up to Ellesmere Port, mum, with nan. 227 00:15:15,243 --> 00:15:18,883 And then he met his future wife. 228 00:15:18,923 --> 00:15:20,763 She got pregnant. 229 00:15:20,803 --> 00:15:23,363 I loved her to bits, Irene. 230 00:15:23,403 --> 00:15:26,523 She was a nice girl, she couldn't cook. 231 00:15:26,563 --> 00:15:29,283 She could wash, she was a lovely girl, 232 00:15:29,323 --> 00:15:31,243 but she didn't have a clue. 233 00:15:42,123 --> 00:15:48,683 # Strangers arms reach out 234 00:15:48,723 --> 00:15:53,963 A man's first love is really the one love. 235 00:15:54,003 --> 00:15:56,803 And I idolised Irene, I really did. 236 00:15:59,123 --> 00:16:01,803 I don't know him as Charles Bronson. 237 00:16:01,843 --> 00:16:05,443 I know him as Michael Peterson, but his name was Mick, when I met him. 238 00:16:08,523 --> 00:16:12,163 I was 18 and I used to work at Littlewoods Pools 239 00:16:12,203 --> 00:16:14,683 as an audio typist. 240 00:16:14,723 --> 00:16:17,483 I never used to go to Ellesmere Port or anything, so I said, 241 00:16:17,523 --> 00:16:18,803 "OK, I'll come." 242 00:16:18,843 --> 00:16:20,843 I bought a new dress and everything. 243 00:16:24,403 --> 00:16:26,563 We were sitting down and we had a drink. 244 00:16:26,603 --> 00:16:29,883 It was lovely, it was a really lovely pub then. 245 00:16:29,923 --> 00:16:31,163 Not like this. 246 00:16:31,203 --> 00:16:35,203 And next thing, these two blokes came in with suits on 247 00:16:35,243 --> 00:16:37,203 and they were both really nice looking. 248 00:16:37,243 --> 00:16:39,723 They were like, turned round and were staring at us. 249 00:16:39,763 --> 00:16:42,443 I was saying, "Linda, there's two really nice blokes just come in," 250 00:16:42,483 --> 00:16:44,683 and she was thinking the same thing to me. 251 00:16:44,723 --> 00:16:47,723 And that was the beginning of my life with Mick... 252 00:16:47,763 --> 00:16:50,203 Charles Bronson, that he is now. 253 00:16:50,243 --> 00:16:52,323 Very sentimental, this place. 254 00:16:56,643 --> 00:16:58,483 Oh, the memories. 255 00:16:58,523 --> 00:17:00,003 I wish he was out. 256 00:17:01,883 --> 00:17:03,643 WHISPERS: I wish he was out. 257 00:17:05,163 --> 00:17:07,923 Not going to be with him, but just want him out of prison. 258 00:17:12,603 --> 00:17:13,963 Cheer, Mick. 259 00:17:14,003 --> 00:17:16,643 Back here after all these years. 260 00:17:16,683 --> 00:17:18,123 Wish you were here. 261 00:17:20,083 --> 00:17:21,763 One day. 262 00:17:21,803 --> 00:17:24,803 When Mick and I used to go out on our own, 263 00:17:24,843 --> 00:17:27,803 you can guarantee, before the end of the night, somebody would 264 00:17:27,843 --> 00:17:30,523 come over to Mick, whisper in his ear something. 265 00:17:30,563 --> 00:17:34,003 Then Mick would say to me, "sorry, Irene, I'm going to order 266 00:17:34,043 --> 00:17:36,563 "a taxi for you to take you home." 267 00:17:36,603 --> 00:17:39,363 And I always used to look around in the back of the taxi, 268 00:17:39,403 --> 00:17:42,803 and all I'd see was just like loads and loads of blokes, 269 00:17:42,843 --> 00:17:44,283 they were all fighting. 270 00:17:44,323 --> 00:17:48,003 And I think Mick was always like, I might see an arm, or Mick's shoe, 271 00:17:48,043 --> 00:17:50,203 or his leg or something, but it was like fun, 272 00:17:50,243 --> 00:17:51,803 nobody killed each other. 273 00:18:00,843 --> 00:18:03,883 When we were married, we used to go for these long walks, 274 00:18:03,923 --> 00:18:06,443 We used to walk through this little place, and it had 275 00:18:06,483 --> 00:18:09,723 these great big houses like big mansions, 276 00:18:09,763 --> 00:18:12,083 with big, high walls. 277 00:18:12,123 --> 00:18:14,923 And Mick used to say, "Irene, hold the pram, 278 00:18:14,963 --> 00:18:18,163 "I'm just going to climb up and have a look at their gardens." 279 00:18:18,203 --> 00:18:21,163 So he used to climb up these walls. 280 00:18:21,203 --> 00:18:24,323 He said, "Oh, Irene, the garden's beautiful." 281 00:18:26,563 --> 00:18:29,523 "There's a beautiful bush there, beautiful, bright 282 00:18:29,563 --> 00:18:31,563 "pink flowers on." 283 00:18:31,603 --> 00:18:34,243 And I used to think, oh, he really likes flowers. 284 00:18:34,283 --> 00:18:37,363 It's only now, years and years later, that realise the reason why 285 00:18:37,403 --> 00:18:39,603 he was actually doing that was because he was probably 286 00:18:39,643 --> 00:18:42,123 trying to look, see if he could rob it, or something. 287 00:18:42,163 --> 00:18:44,803 But that was it, I was very innocent in those days, 288 00:18:44,843 --> 00:18:47,323 and I believed everything. 289 00:18:47,363 --> 00:18:51,483 The only time he sort of had a temper was when he'd been drinking. 290 00:18:51,523 --> 00:18:54,283 He was like a Jekyll and Hyde. 291 00:18:54,323 --> 00:18:56,723 Sometimes he'd disappear for weeks. 292 00:19:02,163 --> 00:19:04,883 There was a big billboard out this little newsagent shop. 293 00:19:04,923 --> 00:19:07,203 It said, "Local man gets seven years." 294 00:19:07,243 --> 00:19:10,523 And seeing that, that just really hit me, it came to home. 295 00:19:10,563 --> 00:19:13,203 My husband's just gone to prison for seven years. 296 00:19:13,243 --> 00:19:16,523 It was horrendous, absolutely horrendous. 297 00:19:16,563 --> 00:19:19,163 It's horrible going to prison with your child 298 00:19:19,203 --> 00:19:20,843 and your husband's there. 299 00:19:20,883 --> 00:19:23,923 When they take Mick away at the end of the visit, 300 00:19:23,963 --> 00:19:26,123 Mike used to run after him. 301 00:19:26,163 --> 00:19:28,443 It was horrible, shouting, "Daddy, Daddy, come back, 302 00:19:28,483 --> 00:19:30,243 "come back, come back." 303 00:19:42,283 --> 00:19:44,003 Hey up, Dad, I'm here. 304 00:19:44,043 --> 00:19:46,163 I'll tell you what, I can hear you... 305 00:19:47,803 --> 00:19:50,363 ..better than I can wearing them. 306 00:19:50,403 --> 00:19:52,523 Take them off, then. Yeah. 307 00:19:52,563 --> 00:19:54,963 Take them off. You look a right twat with them on anyway. 308 00:19:55,003 --> 00:19:56,323 HE LAUGHS 309 00:19:56,363 --> 00:19:57,763 Go on! Right. 310 00:19:57,803 --> 00:20:00,243 THEY LAUGH 311 00:20:02,923 --> 00:20:04,643 Let me tell you something... 312 00:20:04,683 --> 00:20:08,763 I was married to Irene, and Irene put up with a lot with me. 313 00:20:09,923 --> 00:20:13,083 But I still loved her, and I still do love her. 314 00:20:13,123 --> 00:20:16,003 She's a beautiful, wonderful person 315 00:20:16,043 --> 00:20:18,003 who gave me Michael, 316 00:20:18,043 --> 00:20:20,203 gave birth to my son. 317 00:20:20,243 --> 00:20:23,043 And you and Michael are my world. 318 00:20:23,083 --> 00:20:25,563 I love you both the same. 319 00:20:25,603 --> 00:20:28,043 Different mums, same dad. 320 00:20:28,083 --> 00:20:29,923 Yeah. 321 00:20:29,963 --> 00:20:32,043 In 1975, 322 00:20:32,083 --> 00:20:36,243 my wife Irene come to visit me in Hull prison, 323 00:20:36,283 --> 00:20:40,883 and I'd just had one of the biggest beatings I've ever had in my life. 324 00:20:40,923 --> 00:20:42,883 And I deserved it. 325 00:20:42,923 --> 00:20:45,243 I attacked three prison officers. 326 00:20:45,283 --> 00:20:48,843 One of them was an infamous jailer at that time. 327 00:20:48,883 --> 00:20:51,723 He used to give a lot out, you know, 328 00:20:51,763 --> 00:20:55,123 and I've smashed his head in with a stick. 329 00:20:55,163 --> 00:20:57,323 And when I went on the visit, 330 00:20:57,363 --> 00:20:59,723 my Irene said to me that day... 331 00:21:02,963 --> 00:21:05,963 .."The way you're going, you will never get out 332 00:21:06,003 --> 00:21:09,083 "and you'll end up in an asylum." 333 00:21:10,923 --> 00:21:15,963 Two years later I ended up in Broadmoor Criminal Lunatic Asylum. 334 00:21:23,363 --> 00:21:26,523 It's 1975, Parkhurst Prison. 335 00:21:27,963 --> 00:21:31,243 I'll never forget this, because as we were going over 336 00:21:31,283 --> 00:21:34,443 to the ferry to the Isle of Wight, 337 00:21:34,483 --> 00:21:38,123 the number one song at the time was... 338 00:21:38,163 --> 00:21:40,363 SINGS: # I am sailing 339 00:21:41,843 --> 00:21:44,603 # I am sailing...# 340 00:21:44,643 --> 00:21:46,203 Rod Stewart, right? 341 00:21:47,683 --> 00:21:51,523 Anyone who was anyone was there, you know, I met them all... 342 00:21:51,563 --> 00:21:54,203 The Great Train Robbers. 343 00:21:54,243 --> 00:21:58,003 And then I was put on the unit with Ron and Reggie Kray. 344 00:21:58,043 --> 00:22:00,243 As you walked in there, 345 00:22:00,283 --> 00:22:03,443 it oozed legendary characters. 346 00:22:03,483 --> 00:22:05,443 Just a brilliant place. 347 00:22:05,483 --> 00:22:09,763 And anything that could happen in jail, actually happened there. 348 00:22:09,803 --> 00:22:12,323 You know, I was on the roof there. 349 00:22:12,363 --> 00:22:14,683 Took an hostage there. 350 00:22:14,723 --> 00:22:16,803 I almost escaped from there. 351 00:22:19,123 --> 00:22:23,643 Parkhurst really, really was like our Alcatraz, wasn't it? 352 00:22:25,243 --> 00:22:28,123 There was one geezer on there called John BEEP. 353 00:22:28,163 --> 00:22:30,323 South London geezer. 354 00:22:30,363 --> 00:22:33,123 I was the number one cleaner on that unit. 355 00:22:33,163 --> 00:22:36,923 I got a mop, bucket, broom, and a dustpan, 356 00:22:36,963 --> 00:22:39,043 and I've got some gold paint. 357 00:22:39,083 --> 00:22:40,563 I painted 'em gold. 358 00:22:42,283 --> 00:22:45,963 John BEEP was a horrible, arrogant bastard, 359 00:22:46,003 --> 00:22:50,123 and he was borrowing it, not putting it back, not cleaning it. 360 00:22:50,163 --> 00:22:53,483 I had to walk round the unit trying to find it all the fucking time. 361 00:22:55,483 --> 00:22:57,403 And he's done it again. 362 00:22:57,443 --> 00:23:00,403 I've rushed in his cell with a jam jar, 363 00:23:00,443 --> 00:23:02,363 smashed it in his head. 364 00:23:03,883 --> 00:23:07,963 I've hit him in the neck, on the chest. He dived under his bed, 365 00:23:08,003 --> 00:23:10,003 and as he's under his bed, he's screaming 366 00:23:10,043 --> 00:23:12,483 like a fucking castrated pig. 367 00:23:12,523 --> 00:23:15,923 And I'm hitting his legs, his neck, his head. 368 00:23:15,963 --> 00:23:18,563 I'm cutting him up. I'm cutting him to fucking pieces. 369 00:23:20,283 --> 00:23:23,723 And I'm laughing as I'm doing it, you know, I'm actually laughing, 370 00:23:23,763 --> 00:23:26,083 and I'm covered in claret. 371 00:23:27,363 --> 00:23:30,363 It's like a fucking abattoir in there. 372 00:23:30,403 --> 00:23:33,683 I've been charged with grievous bodily harm with intent 373 00:23:33,723 --> 00:23:35,323 and then three days after that, 374 00:23:35,363 --> 00:23:37,723 while I'm being kept in the seg block, 375 00:23:37,763 --> 00:23:40,843 I've cut a screw and his fucking ear lobe's come off. 376 00:23:40,883 --> 00:23:45,163 So, that's when I went to court in 1978 and got certified insane 377 00:23:45,203 --> 00:23:47,123 and went to the fucking asylum. 378 00:23:48,483 --> 00:23:49,763 Fucking madness. 379 00:23:49,803 --> 00:23:52,643 But I was the only one in the entire penal system 380 00:23:52,683 --> 00:23:54,723 with a golden fucking mop bucket. 381 00:23:57,203 --> 00:24:01,403 Aggravated burglary, assault with intent to rob, 382 00:24:01,443 --> 00:24:03,763 grievous bodily harm. 383 00:24:03,803 --> 00:24:05,523 Carrying a firearm. 384 00:24:05,563 --> 00:24:07,443 False imprisonment. 385 00:24:07,483 --> 00:24:09,763 Blackmail. False imprisonment again. 386 00:24:09,803 --> 00:24:11,123 Threats to kill. 387 00:24:11,163 --> 00:24:14,283 Assault occasioning actual bodily harm. 388 00:24:14,323 --> 00:24:18,123 Criminal damage, criminal damage and blackmail. 389 00:24:18,163 --> 00:24:19,963 It's shocking. It is shocking. 390 00:24:20,003 --> 00:24:23,843 And he is capable of extreme violence. 391 00:24:33,683 --> 00:24:36,403 "On the 24th of November 1978, 392 00:24:36,443 --> 00:24:40,483 "he told Dr Tidmarsh that from his school days he had felt 393 00:24:40,523 --> 00:24:42,443 "that people were talking about him. 394 00:24:42,483 --> 00:24:45,003 "He said that he never knew what people said about him, 395 00:24:45,043 --> 00:24:47,603 "but he knew that it was unpleasant. 396 00:24:47,643 --> 00:24:51,123 I think that you can see Charlie's progression into violence 397 00:24:51,163 --> 00:24:52,563 very, very clearly. 398 00:24:52,603 --> 00:24:56,443 He's been diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, 399 00:24:56,483 --> 00:24:58,123 not caring about the law, 400 00:24:58,163 --> 00:25:01,963 and generally being rather callous in your approach to other people. 401 00:25:02,003 --> 00:25:04,963 And paranoid personality disorder. 402 00:25:05,003 --> 00:25:10,203 Being highly suspicious of other people and seeing malice 403 00:25:10,243 --> 00:25:14,883 and threat and hostility where maybe none exists. 404 00:25:14,923 --> 00:25:17,883 He is actually a very disturbed young man. 405 00:25:20,403 --> 00:25:23,403 ARCHIVE NEWS: At the end of this field, a strange, enclosed place. 406 00:25:23,443 --> 00:25:26,963 Beyond the walls over 1,000 locked doors. 407 00:25:27,003 --> 00:25:29,523 This institution is officially secret. 408 00:25:29,563 --> 00:25:31,603 Every single employee here 409 00:25:31,643 --> 00:25:33,923 signs the Official Secrets Act. 410 00:25:33,963 --> 00:25:36,483 But it's not a defence establishment. It's a hospital. 411 00:25:36,523 --> 00:25:39,203 Rampton, top security hospital, near Retford. 412 00:25:39,243 --> 00:25:41,283 It's the Broadmoor of the North. 413 00:25:47,003 --> 00:25:50,923 When I went there, it was called Rampton Criminal Lunatic Asylum. 414 00:25:50,963 --> 00:25:53,083 It's like Broadmoor but worse. 415 00:25:54,123 --> 00:25:57,243 It was the first asylum I ever went in. 416 00:25:57,283 --> 00:25:59,683 It was a strange place, you know 417 00:25:59,723 --> 00:26:02,243 there was a lot of sad, sick, 418 00:26:02,283 --> 00:26:04,043 empty souls in that place. 419 00:26:05,603 --> 00:26:09,363 On my first day there, they took me into the bathroom 420 00:26:09,403 --> 00:26:12,003 and then they bent me over the bath 421 00:26:12,043 --> 00:26:15,803 and two of them were whipping me with wet towels. 422 00:26:15,843 --> 00:26:18,683 I couldn't fucking believe what was happening. 423 00:26:18,723 --> 00:26:21,963 Why were they doing that? That's fucking assault. I know, mate. 424 00:26:22,003 --> 00:26:23,803 I know, I know. I couldn't believe it. 425 00:26:23,843 --> 00:26:26,643 And when that was all over with, 426 00:26:26,683 --> 00:26:29,203 they've given me a bloody good kicking. 427 00:26:30,603 --> 00:26:32,283 Slung me in the room. 428 00:26:32,323 --> 00:26:34,843 About ten minutes later they've come back 429 00:26:34,883 --> 00:26:38,003 and then they've smashed me up to the back of the wall. 430 00:26:38,043 --> 00:26:43,603 One slipped round and jabbed me in the arse with an injection. 431 00:26:43,643 --> 00:26:45,723 That's how Rampton was. 432 00:26:50,363 --> 00:26:53,803 His behaviour at that time was off the scale. 433 00:26:53,843 --> 00:26:56,163 He was at the peak of his paranoia 434 00:26:56,203 --> 00:26:59,603 and he was being treated for psychosis. 435 00:26:59,643 --> 00:27:04,283 I think it was much easier for the the hospitals to manage 436 00:27:04,323 --> 00:27:07,043 Charlie in a sedated, 437 00:27:07,083 --> 00:27:09,403 drugged up state, 438 00:27:09,443 --> 00:27:12,363 but all it did was build resentment. 439 00:27:14,163 --> 00:27:18,323 I was there 11 months. It's where I strangled that BEEP, 440 00:27:18,363 --> 00:27:20,523 that paedophile. 441 00:27:20,563 --> 00:27:22,443 I strangled him, 442 00:27:22,483 --> 00:27:23,723 he died, 443 00:27:23,763 --> 00:27:28,003 and they brought him back to life with an electric bolt. 444 00:27:28,043 --> 00:27:29,923 If they hadn't brought him back to life, 445 00:27:29,963 --> 00:27:31,683 you'd have been done for murder. 446 00:27:31,723 --> 00:27:33,363 Oh, yeah, yeah. 447 00:27:33,403 --> 00:27:37,803 I was expected to be at least charged with attempted murder, 448 00:27:37,843 --> 00:27:42,083 but they said as I'd only just been certified mad, 449 00:27:42,123 --> 00:27:45,003 I couldn't stand trial, so they never charged me. 450 00:27:45,043 --> 00:27:47,803 So what they done, they packed me off to Broadmoor, you know. 451 00:27:53,163 --> 00:27:55,483 Onlyl violence was my friend, 452 00:27:55,523 --> 00:27:57,723 living on a razor's edge. 453 00:27:59,243 --> 00:28:01,843 Visions of hopelessness. 454 00:28:01,883 --> 00:28:04,323 Jumping off the ledge. 455 00:28:04,363 --> 00:28:07,563 The scars fester deep inside. 456 00:28:07,603 --> 00:28:09,923 You're on your way to Broadmoor. 457 00:28:11,763 --> 00:28:14,043 A world of pain for evermore. 458 00:28:15,203 --> 00:28:17,803 An airless space beyond the door. 459 00:28:17,843 --> 00:28:21,523 It's hard to accept this insanity. 460 00:28:21,563 --> 00:28:24,043 There is no peace of mind. 461 00:28:24,083 --> 00:28:28,043 The liquid cosh inside your veins. 462 00:28:28,083 --> 00:28:30,963 Now you're running blind. 463 00:28:31,003 --> 00:28:33,763 Certified insane, a desperate man. 464 00:28:33,803 --> 00:28:36,763 Just a body inside a sack. 465 00:28:55,363 --> 00:28:58,443 ARCHIVE: These anonymous figures set against the iron Victorian landscape 466 00:28:58,483 --> 00:29:01,923 of Strangeways are society's rejects. 467 00:29:01,963 --> 00:29:05,363 Strangeways Prison is one of the three most overcrowded 468 00:29:05,403 --> 00:29:06,883 in the country. 469 00:29:06,923 --> 00:29:10,603 The report describes it as an impoverished regime. 470 00:29:10,643 --> 00:29:12,283 The place wants closing down. 471 00:29:12,323 --> 00:29:14,363 They've not had a riot here for a long, long time, 472 00:29:14,403 --> 00:29:17,283 but I'll tell you something - this place will go off. 473 00:29:17,323 --> 00:29:19,963 And when this place does go off, the roof will go, man, 474 00:29:20,003 --> 00:29:21,163 I'm telling you. 475 00:29:22,683 --> 00:29:24,923 ARCHIVE NEWS: It was an explosion of evil. 476 00:29:24,963 --> 00:29:27,043 The mob, now totally beyond control, 477 00:29:27,083 --> 00:29:30,003 swept through the prison in an orgy of destruction, 478 00:29:30,043 --> 00:29:33,043 which was unprecedented in British prison history. 479 00:29:40,803 --> 00:29:44,963 BRONSON: 1990, the Strangeways riot kicked off. 480 00:29:45,003 --> 00:29:48,043 Three weeks before that kicked off, 481 00:29:48,083 --> 00:29:50,163 I was actually in Strangeways. 482 00:29:50,203 --> 00:29:53,603 Then I moved from Strangeways to Parkhurst. 483 00:29:55,363 --> 00:29:58,363 I fucking missed it by three weeks. 484 00:30:00,123 --> 00:30:04,483 When I was there, it was bubbling up then, really bubbling up. 485 00:30:04,523 --> 00:30:07,723 What do you mean bubbling up? Why was it bubbling up? 486 00:30:07,763 --> 00:30:11,443 Well, slopping out, brutality, 487 00:30:11,483 --> 00:30:13,643 bad food, 488 00:30:13,683 --> 00:30:15,923 cons were three to a cell. 489 00:30:15,963 --> 00:30:18,563 You imagine shitting in a bucket 490 00:30:18,603 --> 00:30:21,243 with another two men in the same cell. 491 00:30:21,283 --> 00:30:24,083 It is a great regret of mine, I would have loved... 492 00:30:24,123 --> 00:30:26,323 I think I would have still fucking been up there. 493 00:30:27,803 --> 00:30:31,203 I did Broadmoor's roof three times. 494 00:30:31,243 --> 00:30:34,443 1981, 1983, 495 00:30:34,483 --> 00:30:38,483 and 1984, I took that roof off. 496 00:30:38,523 --> 00:30:42,923 But the reason I never done '82, 497 00:30:42,963 --> 00:30:47,603 was because I was so fucking drugged up with the liquid cosh 498 00:30:47,643 --> 00:30:51,043 I couldn't fucking look at a pipe, let alone climb up it. 499 00:30:56,763 --> 00:30:59,003 GULLS CRY 500 00:31:14,003 --> 00:31:17,363 He picked me up and carried me around his shoulders. 501 00:31:17,403 --> 00:31:19,883 He threw me down into the middle of the snooker table. 502 00:31:19,923 --> 00:31:23,363 I may have lost consciousness for a few seconds, and that's 503 00:31:23,403 --> 00:31:24,723 when he said, 504 00:31:24,763 --> 00:31:27,643 "I'm going to kill you and then I'm going to kill myself. 505 00:31:27,683 --> 00:31:31,043 "And they can carry both of us out in body bags." 506 00:31:33,083 --> 00:31:37,323 All I saw was this person behaving in an absolute deranged manner. 507 00:31:37,363 --> 00:31:41,043 I don't think I've ever, ever seen anybody behave like that, 508 00:31:41,083 --> 00:31:43,683 apart from him, in any circumstances. 509 00:31:43,723 --> 00:31:46,283 I was absolutely terrified. 510 00:31:46,323 --> 00:31:48,563 You know, there's no other word for it. 511 00:31:48,603 --> 00:31:50,363 I was frightened to death. 512 00:31:56,563 --> 00:31:59,363 ARCHIVE NEWS: Charles Bronson arrived at court, locked up, 513 00:31:59,403 --> 00:32:03,363 and wearing the vivid colours of a Category A prisoner. 514 00:32:03,403 --> 00:32:06,723 Bronson is arguing that most of his 30 years in jail 515 00:32:06,763 --> 00:32:09,483 have been spent in solitary confinement. 516 00:32:09,523 --> 00:32:11,403 That amounts to torture, he says, 517 00:32:11,443 --> 00:32:14,043 and it's what prompted him to take his hostage. 518 00:32:21,243 --> 00:32:23,443 He saw an opportunity 519 00:32:23,483 --> 00:32:26,923 to kick off at the fact that he didn't want to move. 520 00:32:26,963 --> 00:32:30,243 Because I believe, all the time he was in Hull that time, 521 00:32:30,283 --> 00:32:31,803 he was pretty well behaved. 522 00:32:42,843 --> 00:32:45,283 When somebody in that situation kicks off, 523 00:32:45,323 --> 00:32:46,883 it's got to be a cry for help. 524 00:32:46,923 --> 00:32:50,083 I think he thought he'd reached the end of the line with it. 525 00:32:50,123 --> 00:32:53,723 He demonstrated to me classic mood swings. 526 00:32:55,083 --> 00:32:57,923 I did experience his desperation, if you like. 527 00:32:57,963 --> 00:33:01,123 At the end of it he just didn't seem to care about himself. 528 00:33:06,483 --> 00:33:07,883 I thought he was dead at one point. 529 00:33:07,923 --> 00:33:11,403 He ripped this hard-wired washing machine off the wall, 530 00:33:11,443 --> 00:33:13,163 and it kind of went "bang!" 531 00:33:15,003 --> 00:33:17,843 I thought, "Oh, my God, he's electrocuted himself." 532 00:33:17,883 --> 00:33:20,243 For what seemed like an eternity, he's laid flat on his back 533 00:33:20,283 --> 00:33:24,203 in this bit where all these broken washing machines and fridges were. 534 00:33:24,243 --> 00:33:27,643 And then he just stood up, as though nothing had happened. 535 00:33:30,203 --> 00:33:33,043 I'm sure he was under a great deal of mental duress. 536 00:33:33,083 --> 00:33:36,763 Who wouldn't be? But he didn't appear to be the kind of person 537 00:33:36,803 --> 00:33:39,163 who would do that deliberately. 538 00:33:39,203 --> 00:33:40,603 He had to have his show. 539 00:33:40,643 --> 00:33:43,923 "This is the Charlie Show. This is what everybody expects. 540 00:33:43,963 --> 00:33:47,243 "This is what everybody who loves me likes me to do. 541 00:33:47,283 --> 00:33:51,163 "Let's have a bit of a hostage taking and smash things up." 542 00:33:51,203 --> 00:33:54,883 He was more like that for the bulk of the time I was in there 543 00:33:54,923 --> 00:33:58,883 than he was suicidal or appearing to be depressed. 544 00:34:04,723 --> 00:34:08,163 ARCHIVE NEWS: From the dock he heard his appeal against conviction 545 00:34:08,203 --> 00:34:11,723 and life sentence thrown out, but the judges did accept 546 00:34:11,763 --> 00:34:16,283 his harrowing account of brutal treatment and isolation 547 00:34:16,323 --> 00:34:19,403 during most of his 30 years in prison. 548 00:34:19,443 --> 00:34:22,963 The judges agreed that Bronson may have changed his ways 549 00:34:23,003 --> 00:34:26,683 and urged the parole board to consider that when the time came. 550 00:34:26,723 --> 00:34:29,403 30 years ago, he was a failed bank robber. 551 00:34:29,443 --> 00:34:31,323 What's the criminal justice system done for him? 552 00:34:31,363 --> 00:34:33,523 30 year sentence. Now, that's not clever. 553 00:34:33,563 --> 00:34:35,883 The criminal justice system and the prison system, 554 00:34:35,923 --> 00:34:39,083 the rehabilitation - it all needs to answer that point. 555 00:34:40,883 --> 00:34:44,043 Bronson still doesn't know just how long he must stay in prison. 556 00:34:44,083 --> 00:34:47,803 There's confusion because he's serving two sentences, 557 00:34:47,843 --> 00:34:50,563 and even his lawyers don't know when one might end 558 00:34:50,603 --> 00:34:52,003 and the other begin. 559 00:34:52,043 --> 00:34:55,883 At best, he'll probably have to do another four years inside. 560 00:34:55,923 --> 00:34:58,763 Martin Brunt, Sky News, at the Old Bailey. 561 00:35:00,523 --> 00:35:04,403 BRONSON: At the end of the day, Martin, I can't put my finger on it 562 00:35:04,443 --> 00:35:08,563 and say why it happened or if it's going to happen again, 563 00:35:08,603 --> 00:35:11,723 cos, basically, 564 00:35:11,763 --> 00:35:15,443 I go through periods of disturbance of the mind. 565 00:35:21,163 --> 00:35:25,323 See, what you've got to realise, son, when I got this life sentence, 566 00:35:25,363 --> 00:35:27,723 my tariff was three years. 567 00:35:29,003 --> 00:35:32,043 I'm now 18 years over that tariff. 568 00:35:32,083 --> 00:35:33,323 Unbelievable. 569 00:35:33,363 --> 00:35:34,763 In any one eye's... 570 00:35:36,243 --> 00:35:37,763 ..that's not right, mate. 571 00:36:13,003 --> 00:36:16,363 People have got no idea what really goes on behind the scenes 572 00:36:16,403 --> 00:36:18,163 in the prison system. 573 00:36:18,203 --> 00:36:21,683 England's about "bash, bash, bash!" 574 00:36:23,603 --> 00:36:24,883 It is run on violence. 575 00:36:24,923 --> 00:36:29,003 You meet it with violence and then you're punished for it. 576 00:36:29,043 --> 00:36:31,163 You are in the belly of the beast. 577 00:36:31,203 --> 00:36:34,043 You are in a jungle full of violence. 578 00:36:34,083 --> 00:36:36,723 You know death's in the air. 579 00:36:36,763 --> 00:36:38,123 Any of you lot out there now, 580 00:36:38,163 --> 00:36:42,923 I'm going to lock you in your bedroom for the next 47 years. 581 00:36:42,963 --> 00:36:45,563 You're coming out for one hour a day. 582 00:36:45,603 --> 00:36:47,083 If you don't like it, tough shit, 583 00:36:47,123 --> 00:36:49,363 we're going to spray you with pepper spray. 584 00:36:49,403 --> 00:36:51,963 Wrap you up, zip tie you, sling you in a concrete box, 585 00:36:52,003 --> 00:36:54,323 a strip box - naked. 586 00:36:54,363 --> 00:36:56,843 If I was an animal in a zoo, 587 00:36:56,883 --> 00:36:59,123 I would bite someone. 588 00:36:59,163 --> 00:37:00,803 And that's what he does, 589 00:37:00,843 --> 00:37:02,763 cos it's like, "Aaaagh!" 590 00:37:05,963 --> 00:37:09,443 They actually think you've been a complete and utter twat. 591 00:37:09,483 --> 00:37:11,243 You've been a horrible bastard. 592 00:37:11,283 --> 00:37:13,203 INAUDIBLE #S 593 00:37:13,243 --> 00:37:18,003 But also, that doesn't excuse the way that you've been treated 594 00:37:18,043 --> 00:37:20,923 and the way that they have treated you. 595 00:37:20,963 --> 00:37:22,803 Move you every two weeks. 596 00:37:22,843 --> 00:37:26,483 We looked through the records and in one 12 month period, 597 00:37:26,523 --> 00:37:28,723 you got moved nearly 20 times. 598 00:37:31,483 --> 00:37:33,283 You get on the merry go round - 599 00:37:33,323 --> 00:37:36,003 going round and round and round and round. 600 00:37:36,043 --> 00:37:37,923 Wherever it might be, up the M1, 601 00:37:37,963 --> 00:37:41,123 down to bleeding Worcestershire to Long Lartin, 602 00:37:41,163 --> 00:37:43,163 Long Lartin to Belmarsh, 603 00:37:43,203 --> 00:37:45,203 Belmarsh to Woodhill, 604 00:37:45,243 --> 00:37:48,203 Woodhill to bleeding Whitemoor. 605 00:37:48,243 --> 00:37:50,963 ARCHIVE NEWS: Prison reformers say it's an extreme example 606 00:37:51,003 --> 00:37:52,883 of a practice known as ghosting. 607 00:37:52,923 --> 00:37:54,923 Prisoners are locked up at night, 608 00:37:54,963 --> 00:37:57,563 and then the next morning, as they're unlocked, they find 609 00:37:57,603 --> 00:37:59,803 that the cell next door is empty. 610 00:37:59,843 --> 00:38:03,203 The prisoner has disappeared. He's disappeared like a ghost. 611 00:38:03,243 --> 00:38:07,643 It's a very inhumane system used as an informal punishment. 612 00:38:09,603 --> 00:38:12,403 You've always got the fear of the door being opened at two or three 613 00:38:12,443 --> 00:38:14,523 in the morning or five in the morning... 614 00:38:15,923 --> 00:38:18,123 ..with the riot squad and a camera. 615 00:38:18,163 --> 00:38:20,683 I realised that I had a bit of a tick. 616 00:38:20,723 --> 00:38:23,883 When I came off the Category A system I was doing this... 617 00:38:25,243 --> 00:38:28,523 All the time, cos my door would go and I'd look. 618 00:38:28,563 --> 00:38:30,203 I want to know if they're coming in. 619 00:38:30,243 --> 00:38:32,443 If they're coming in, you've got to get ready. 620 00:38:32,483 --> 00:38:34,923 So, you're always looking over your shoulder at the door. 621 00:38:34,963 --> 00:38:36,443 The flap goes, you look. 622 00:38:36,483 --> 00:38:38,603 Flap goes, you get back to doing what you're doing. 623 00:38:38,643 --> 00:38:40,483 You do it without even realising. 624 00:38:40,523 --> 00:38:44,123 That's the type of treatment Charlie is going through. 625 00:38:44,163 --> 00:38:45,523 That's not right. 626 00:38:46,563 --> 00:38:49,203 BRONSON: I was regularly brutalised. 627 00:38:49,243 --> 00:38:51,883 My years were spent in solitary confinement. 628 00:38:51,923 --> 00:38:53,443 They drove me mad. 629 00:38:53,483 --> 00:38:57,443 I ended up certified insane and going to the asylums. 630 00:38:58,683 --> 00:39:01,523 I wasn't an angel, but they drove me mad. 631 00:39:01,563 --> 00:39:04,603 Got caught in a trap, there was no way out. 632 00:39:04,643 --> 00:39:06,323 And that's how it was. 633 00:39:14,723 --> 00:39:18,923 MUSIC: Champions League Anthem by Tony Britten 634 00:40:06,443 --> 00:40:08,003 It's important, he feels, 635 00:40:08,043 --> 00:40:11,723 that the public are aware of all the evidence that's put forward 636 00:40:11,763 --> 00:40:16,083 as to why on the government's case that he should remain in custody. 637 00:40:18,283 --> 00:40:21,403 One of the problems that arises because the parole system 638 00:40:21,443 --> 00:40:23,323 has been so secretive up to now, 639 00:40:23,363 --> 00:40:27,363 is that we don't really understand why the decision has been made. 640 00:40:27,403 --> 00:40:31,003 Bronson's got to show that he is safe to be released 641 00:40:31,043 --> 00:40:34,323 as far as can be reasonably ascertained. 642 00:40:34,363 --> 00:40:37,083 It's not an easy decision to make, 643 00:40:37,123 --> 00:40:41,723 but it's a good thing that this will, if this happens in public, 644 00:40:41,763 --> 00:40:44,523 because people will be able to see the thoroughness and care 645 00:40:44,563 --> 00:40:47,523 with which that decision is made. 646 00:40:47,563 --> 00:40:49,083 It will happen. 647 00:40:49,123 --> 00:40:50,963 I'm committed to making it happen. 648 00:40:51,003 --> 00:40:53,603 But we may lose individual battles. 649 00:40:53,643 --> 00:40:55,163 But it's about winning the war. 650 00:40:56,723 --> 00:41:00,283 BRONSON: Certain people in the penal system 651 00:41:00,323 --> 00:41:05,483 would soon as see me leave prison in a body bag or on a zimmerframe. 652 00:41:05,523 --> 00:41:08,123 I've upset so many people 653 00:41:08,163 --> 00:41:10,163 in the high places. 654 00:41:10,203 --> 00:41:12,203 They just don't want me out. 655 00:41:14,083 --> 00:41:16,803 Charlie is someone who's been heavily convicted of violence. 656 00:41:16,843 --> 00:41:18,443 There's no escaping that. 657 00:41:18,483 --> 00:41:21,403 But he's recognised that he needs to change, 658 00:41:21,443 --> 00:41:24,323 he needs to adapt, if he's ever going to stand a chance 659 00:41:24,363 --> 00:41:26,323 of being released. 660 00:41:26,363 --> 00:41:29,443 Charlie's under no illusions that if he ever gets the prospect 661 00:41:29,483 --> 00:41:32,003 of being released, if he messes up, 662 00:41:32,043 --> 00:41:34,843 he's unlikely to ever get a second chance. 663 00:41:36,363 --> 00:41:39,763 It's going to open the floodgates for thousands of others. 664 00:41:56,363 --> 00:41:58,043 All right, my old son! 665 00:41:58,083 --> 00:42:00,203 All right, Dad! 666 00:42:00,243 --> 00:42:02,083 Do you want a couple of rounds? 667 00:42:02,123 --> 00:42:04,483 You're only saying that cos you're on the other end of a camera, 668 00:42:04,523 --> 00:42:06,803 you wouldn't be saying that if I was there, would you? 669 00:42:06,843 --> 00:42:08,123 HE GROWLS 670 00:42:08,163 --> 00:42:09,523 Anyway, how are you? 671 00:42:09,563 --> 00:42:11,563 I'm all right. How are you, Dad? All right? 672 00:42:11,603 --> 00:42:13,363 I'll tell you what, 673 00:42:13,403 --> 00:42:15,883 you have a wonderful life, you know. 674 00:42:15,923 --> 00:42:18,283 That's because I've worked hard and stayed out of trouble 675 00:42:18,323 --> 00:42:21,083 and not robbed any post offices or jewellers. 676 00:42:26,683 --> 00:42:27,923 I'll put my hand up. 677 00:42:29,563 --> 00:42:31,483 I've done some mad things. 678 00:42:33,763 --> 00:42:35,523 I've been a nasty bastard. 679 00:42:37,163 --> 00:42:40,763 But I've found my true self 680 00:42:40,803 --> 00:42:42,603 through my art. 681 00:42:44,803 --> 00:42:46,363 My art now is my life. 682 00:42:47,883 --> 00:42:50,723 When I create a piece of art 683 00:42:50,763 --> 00:42:53,123 I create a piece of myself, 684 00:42:54,403 --> 00:42:56,563 I can see art now behind you. 685 00:43:03,803 --> 00:43:05,643 Now I'm an artist, 686 00:43:05,683 --> 00:43:08,323 I'm coming out with a gift 687 00:43:08,363 --> 00:43:09,963 and I'm proud of it. 688 00:43:10,003 --> 00:43:13,923 I'm more proud of my art than I am anything. 689 00:43:13,963 --> 00:43:15,763 What I've basically done... 690 00:43:17,283 --> 00:43:21,883 ..I've swapped my sawn off shotgun for a sawn off paintbrush. 691 00:43:21,923 --> 00:43:23,963 HE LAUGHS 692 00:43:24,003 --> 00:43:25,483 And it's lovely. 693 00:43:25,523 --> 00:43:27,203 It's beautiful. 694 00:43:27,243 --> 00:43:29,403 When I sit there and do a piece of art... 695 00:43:31,163 --> 00:43:34,483 ..it feels like I'm part of the human race. 696 00:43:35,723 --> 00:43:37,643 Feel lovely and happy. 697 00:43:39,763 --> 00:43:42,283 It gets rid of all my frustrations 698 00:43:42,323 --> 00:43:45,243 and my tension and my madness. 699 00:43:45,283 --> 00:43:47,203 I'm an artist! 700 00:43:47,243 --> 00:43:50,323 People have got to start believing it and seeing it. 701 00:43:51,683 --> 00:43:54,243 I've actually found what I love in life. 702 00:43:55,883 --> 00:43:58,003 Great visit. 703 00:43:58,043 --> 00:44:00,043 You're looking good. 704 00:44:00,083 --> 00:44:02,563 Keep winning. 705 00:44:02,603 --> 00:44:04,203 SINGS: # We'll meet again 706 00:44:04,243 --> 00:44:05,923 # Don't know where...# 707 00:44:14,323 --> 00:44:17,963 I can only say from what I've seen of when I visit him, 708 00:44:18,003 --> 00:44:20,603 I think he's a lovely bloke who's got a heart of gold and all this. 709 00:44:20,643 --> 00:44:24,963 Don't get me wrong, I reckon there's a button that you can press... 710 00:44:25,003 --> 00:44:26,443 And he could explode. 711 00:44:26,483 --> 00:44:30,843 ..and Mr Bronson turns up and his eyes roll, and you're like, 712 00:44:30,883 --> 00:44:32,443 "Oh, my God." 713 00:44:32,483 --> 00:44:35,003 Do you think that's why he's still in the cage? 714 00:44:35,043 --> 00:44:37,363 Do you think they're scared of him? 715 00:44:37,403 --> 00:44:40,043 Just in case he could lose it. Yeah. 716 00:44:40,083 --> 00:44:42,163 He's in a cage in a cage. 717 00:44:42,203 --> 00:44:44,443 How does that make you feel about your son knowing he's there? 718 00:44:44,483 --> 00:44:46,603 Well, if he came home tomorrow and he lived with me, 719 00:44:46,643 --> 00:44:48,243 I'd put him in a fucking cage as well! 720 00:44:48,283 --> 00:44:50,363 THEY LAUGH Would you like him out? 721 00:44:50,403 --> 00:44:51,923 Yeah, for tea! SHE LAUGHS 722 00:44:54,563 --> 00:44:56,883 What am I in jail for? 723 00:44:56,923 --> 00:44:58,483 People don't believe it. 724 00:44:58,523 --> 00:45:00,563 They think I'm a serial killer. 725 00:45:06,003 --> 00:45:11,363 Hopefully I've got a date soon for my public parole hearing. 726 00:45:11,403 --> 00:45:15,363 I'm the first man in Britain to have a public one. 727 00:45:17,123 --> 00:45:18,763 And the reason I'm doing that, 728 00:45:18,803 --> 00:45:22,563 is cos I'm going to expose the system and what it's done to me. 729 00:45:23,803 --> 00:45:27,163 It's all coming out in the wash, my side of the story, 730 00:45:27,203 --> 00:45:30,043 and the truth is going to shock the planet. 731 00:45:37,683 --> 00:45:40,203 I get people messaging me all the time saying, 732 00:45:40,243 --> 00:45:42,563 "You're full of shit. You're not Charles Bronson's son. 733 00:45:42,603 --> 00:45:44,403 "You're a liar." 734 00:45:44,443 --> 00:45:47,323 All these people have stuck their nose 735 00:45:47,363 --> 00:45:50,123 in our personal domestic business. 736 00:45:51,203 --> 00:45:53,683 They should be a-fucking-shamed of themselves. 737 00:45:57,723 --> 00:46:00,923 You know what, that would be really lovely for him, wouldn't it? 738 00:46:00,963 --> 00:46:03,803 Got a nice area for his barbecue out there. 739 00:46:04,843 --> 00:46:07,443 It's sort of like a little bit secluded, out of the way, 740 00:46:07,483 --> 00:46:09,083 do you know what I mean? 741 00:46:09,123 --> 00:46:11,043 I'm not sure what the neighbours will think. 742 00:46:11,083 --> 00:46:13,443 I think there'll be some genuine fear about him kicking off 743 00:46:13,483 --> 00:46:16,043 when he gets out, because you've got to remember, 744 00:46:16,083 --> 00:46:18,803 when you mention the name Charles Bronson to anybody, 745 00:46:18,843 --> 00:46:21,323 all they picture in their head straight away is, 746 00:46:21,363 --> 00:46:23,483 "Murderer, killer, psychopath. 747 00:46:23,523 --> 00:46:26,763 "Britain's most dangerous prisoner. Britain's most violent person." 748 00:46:42,683 --> 00:46:45,683 Subtitles by Red Bee Media 60445

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