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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:20,500 ♪ 4 00:00:20,750 --> 00:00:24,500 ♪ 5 00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:21,500 ♪ 6 00:01:21,750 --> 00:01:26,750 ♪ 7 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:32,000 ♪ 8 00:01:32,250 --> 00:01:37,250 ♪ 9 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:42,500 ♪ 10 00:01:42,750 --> 00:01:47,750 ♪ 11 00:01:48,450 --> 00:01:51,549 The chimpanzee infant left with his mother is a thing, a lump. 12 00:01:52,290 --> 00:01:55,850 Taken away, he acquires human psychological 13 00:01:55,850 --> 00:01:59,409 tests, performances which are well-nigh unbelievable. 14 00:02:09,300 --> 00:02:12,980 Nim was born at the primate center in Oklahoma 15 00:02:12,980 --> 00:02:15,620 and I went out there to get him. 16 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,640 I had never been near that many chimpanzees. 17 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,520 It was frightening and intimidating. 18 00:02:24,180 --> 00:02:26,620 And I knew Dr. Lemon and his wife were 19 00:02:26,620 --> 00:02:29,560 watching me to see what kind of a mother would I be. 20 00:02:33,329 --> 00:02:37,409 Carolyn, Mim's mother, was sitting right there, holding Mim. 21 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:41,580 and she knew what was going to happen better than I did. 22 00:02:42,580 --> 00:02:47,660 She had had six of her previous babies removed, apparently in the same way. 23 00:02:48,500 --> 00:02:53,500 ♪ 24 00:02:53,750 --> 00:02:55,000 ♪ 25 00:02:55,650 --> 00:02:58,789 When the time came to take Nym 26 00:02:58,789 --> 00:03:02,930 from his mother, she instantly 27 00:03:03,629 --> 00:03:07,830 took on this drama, this feeling of something about to happen. 28 00:03:13,250 --> 00:03:16,710 Dr. Lemon shot her with a tranquilizing gun. 29 00:03:19,849 --> 00:03:24,449 Then said quick we have to get him before she falls 30 00:03:24,449 --> 00:03:29,530 over and falls on him She was trying to protect him 31 00:03:29,530 --> 00:03:33,990 and cradle him So he raced in and gotten him and 32 00:03:35,709 --> 00:03:42,129 Handed Nim to me and Go back, you 33 00:03:42,129 --> 00:03:43,430 know go back in the other space 34 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:49,000 ♪ 35 00:03:49,250 --> 00:03:53,500 ♪ 36 00:03:53,750 --> 00:03:58,789 He was very dense, unlike a 37 00:03:58,789 --> 00:04:01,150 human baby that has fat. 38 00:04:02,210 --> 00:04:04,210 He was dense and hard. 39 00:04:05,469 --> 00:04:06,469 He didn't struggle. 40 00:04:06,550 --> 00:04:07,550 He didn't try to get away. 41 00:04:08,050 --> 00:04:09,050 He just screamed. 42 00:04:10,389 --> 00:04:14,090 As much as he may be screaming and protesting, he's also clinging. 43 00:04:15,530 --> 00:04:18,310 He was attaching for dear life. 44 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:24,000 ♪ 45 00:04:24,250 --> 00:04:29,250 ♪ 46 00:04:29,500 --> 00:04:31,000 ♪ 47 00:04:41,649 --> 00:04:45,289 Wouldn't it be exciting to communicate 48 00:04:45,289 --> 00:04:48,609 with a chimp and find out what it was thinking? 49 00:04:50,649 --> 00:04:54,509 If they could be taught to articulate what they were thinking 50 00:04:54,509 --> 00:04:59,589 about, this would be an incredible expansion of human communication 51 00:04:59,589 --> 00:05:05,069 and possibly give us some insight into how language, in fact, did evolve. 52 00:05:06,429 --> 00:05:09,089 And that's essentially why I started Project M. 53 00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:15,279 I don't know what was in his mind, but he just called. 54 00:05:17,100 --> 00:05:22,199 He was asking me to bring an infant chimpanzee into my 55 00:05:22,199 --> 00:05:25,339 home, raise this infant as if he 56 00:05:25,339 --> 00:05:28,439 were a child, and see if 57 00:05:28,439 --> 00:05:32,040 he acquired language as a function of being part of a family. 58 00:05:34,370 --> 00:05:36,329 Stephanie was a former student of mine. 59 00:05:37,409 --> 00:05:41,729 She had a large family of her own children and her husband's children. 60 00:05:42,689 --> 00:05:46,149 Was exceedingly empathic and warm and a 61 00:05:46,149 --> 00:05:47,649 chimp could not have a better better mother. 62 00:05:49,899 --> 00:05:55,039 I know nothing about chimpanzees and I never actually sat 63 00:05:55,039 --> 00:05:59,759 down to study them as one could have, as I should have 64 00:05:59,759 --> 00:06:04,019 perhaps, but my appetite and my drive to have that 65 00:06:04,019 --> 00:06:07,419 intimate relationship with an animal was, nothing would have stopped that. 66 00:06:09,149 --> 00:06:13,709 The fact that we could share language with an animal 67 00:06:13,709 --> 00:06:17,149 seemed like a very radical possibility at that time. 68 00:06:18,349 --> 00:06:21,009 It had been known for some time that chimps 69 00:06:21,009 --> 00:06:23,629 aren't able to make the sounds of human language. 70 00:06:26,660 --> 00:06:28,680 So why not teach him sign language? 71 00:06:30,699 --> 00:06:34,400 The real breakthrough would be if, like human 72 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,819 children, a chimpanzee could create grammatical sentences. 73 00:06:40,500 --> 00:06:44,460 So without much preparation and without really asking 74 00:06:44,460 --> 00:06:48,840 permission of my children, my husband, I said, fine, I can do it. 75 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,220 I even have the funds to do it with. 76 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:52,460 We don't need to worry about money. 77 00:06:53,759 --> 00:06:55,519 And so it was launched. 78 00:06:55,519 --> 00:06:57,240 The experiment was launched. 79 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,720 When Nim came to New York, he was barely two weeks old. 80 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,519 The idea was that he would be treated in every way like a human infant. 81 00:07:09,699 --> 00:07:15,300 I had recently moved to a brownstone on the Upper West Side with my 82 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:19,719 three children and with my husband who had four children, Weir Lafarge. 83 00:07:21,379 --> 00:07:24,339 Weir was a poet and a writer. 84 00:07:26,099 --> 00:07:30,620 He redefined himself, became what at that time was called a rich hippie. 85 00:07:35,899 --> 00:07:39,919 new husband, new family, new house. 86 00:07:40,679 --> 00:07:45,839 And I brought Nim into that rather turbulent situation. 87 00:07:49,550 --> 00:07:52,949 It just happened there was no family discussion 88 00:07:52,949 --> 00:07:56,590 about should we shouldn't it was just oh, we're 89 00:07:56,590 --> 00:07:59,430 having a chimp We're going to teach a sign language 90 00:08:01,699 --> 00:08:04,019 And then the reality of it is sort of hitting you that 91 00:08:04,019 --> 00:08:06,279 it's really, you know, it's alive, it's not a doll, 92 00:08:06,399 --> 00:08:10,079 it's not a toy, it's not a human, it's a chimp, and 93 00:08:10,079 --> 00:08:14,539 it's an amazing, sweet, little, newborn 94 00:08:14,539 --> 00:08:17,699 baby, needy creature, so... 95 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,339 I think I fell in love instantly. 96 00:08:24,699 --> 00:08:25,959 Nim didn't like Weir. 97 00:08:28,980 --> 00:08:30,439 And Weir didn't like him. 98 00:08:32,580 --> 00:08:36,139 Almost instantly I saw how complicated this was going to be. 99 00:08:37,639 --> 00:08:39,439 I think Weir went along with it. 100 00:08:40,259 --> 00:08:43,679 It was clearly Stephanie sort of saying, let's have a chimp. 101 00:08:45,799 --> 00:08:46,919 It was the 70s. 102 00:08:49,149 --> 00:08:51,389 I breastfed him for a couple of months. 103 00:08:52,370 --> 00:08:54,769 It seemed completely natural. 104 00:08:56,269 --> 00:08:58,970 Everything was about treating him like a human being. 105 00:09:02,049 --> 00:09:06,529 By the time I had Nim, of course, I felt very comfortable with babies. 106 00:09:07,490 --> 00:09:13,409 I wasn't prepared at all for the wild animal in him and the drive. 107 00:09:17,750 --> 00:09:21,350 By the time he was three months old, 108 00:09:21,450 --> 00:09:24,149 I think, and starting to be ambulatory, 109 00:09:25,629 --> 00:09:30,450 just right there, nothing passive, nothing passive ever. 110 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,000 ♪ 111 00:09:35,100 --> 00:09:37,960 You know, I think he figured that he could just 112 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:42,159 get in between Weir and Stephanie, um, on some level. 113 00:09:46,799 --> 00:09:51,299 And we're put his arm around her and and Nim just you 114 00:09:51,299 --> 00:09:56,219 know Half asleep having a bottle, you know Turn and bit. 115 00:09:56,479 --> 00:09:58,439 We are on the arm quite hard 116 00:10:00,750 --> 00:10:02,429 He didn't want Weir in the picture. 117 00:10:03,190 --> 00:10:05,269 He wanted Stephanie Alford, you know, himself. 118 00:10:07,169 --> 00:10:08,669 Weir definitely felt excluded. 119 00:10:11,070 --> 00:10:13,610 Nim had just become part of my being. 120 00:10:14,470 --> 00:10:18,590 That was incompatible with the role that I played as wife. 121 00:10:20,700 --> 00:10:21,700 Oh 122 00:10:26,580 --> 00:10:27,720 -Herb's coming. -Herb's coming. 123 00:10:27,780 --> 00:10:28,780 Herb's coming. 124 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,100 Herb's coming was a big deal. 125 00:10:33,399 --> 00:10:35,799 I would just go over and visit, just to see 126 00:10:35,799 --> 00:10:38,679 what his state was and how he was getting along. 127 00:10:40,519 --> 00:10:43,120 Herb was infinitely exciting. 128 00:10:44,059 --> 00:10:49,360 I admired his intellect and his goals and his arrogance, all those things. 129 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:53,019 That was something. 130 00:10:55,049 --> 00:10:57,889 that didn't sit right with me about him. 131 00:11:01,399 --> 00:11:05,799 The people that I am the closest to throughout my life are 132 00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:09,500 people that I have had some period of sexual contact with. 133 00:11:10,519 --> 00:11:15,980 I don't think that the previous sexual relationship 134 00:11:15,980 --> 00:11:19,360 between Herb and myself made a difference to the project 135 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,220 at all, other than it was part of 136 00:11:23,220 --> 00:11:26,439 the glue that allowed it to happen. 137 00:11:30,250 --> 00:11:31,670 Herb didn't come very much. 138 00:11:33,470 --> 00:11:36,409 He wasn't part of the caretaking package at all. 139 00:11:38,450 --> 00:11:43,290 Young newborn chimps are always raised by their mothers, not by their fathers. 140 00:11:45,610 --> 00:11:47,509 And I didn't see any way of trying to 141 00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:49,330 change, or any point in trying to change that. 142 00:11:49,500 --> 00:11:52,850 ♪ 143 00:11:52,850 --> 00:11:56,490 For better or worse, I had never regarded him as a child. 144 00:11:56,610 --> 00:12:02,590 I regarded him as an intelligent, personable center of a scientific project. 145 00:12:05,629 --> 00:12:09,490 I had an implicit faith that Nim would learn signs. 146 00:12:10,389 --> 00:12:11,790 We had to wait and see. 147 00:12:14,799 --> 00:12:17,659 How do they start teaching the child to sign? 148 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:20,939 Does the child just watch and whatever? 149 00:12:21,079 --> 00:12:22,079 I don't know. 150 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,639 I mean, it was a problem. We were trying to teach this chimp sign 151 00:12:24,639 --> 00:12:27,439 language and nobody in the house really was fluent in sign language. 152 00:12:27,599 --> 00:12:30,259 We would mold his hand into the sign for drink, 153 00:12:30,379 --> 00:12:34,319 which is this, and then give him the bottle to drink. 154 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:43,799 ♪ 155 00:12:43,799 --> 00:12:44,799 It just happened. 156 00:12:45,979 --> 00:12:47,519 It was just amazing. 157 00:12:49,339 --> 00:12:51,539 And I thought, piece of cake. 158 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,199 I was absolutely delighted. 159 00:12:55,179 --> 00:12:58,459 He picked up quite a few signs after that rather quickly. 160 00:13:01,140 --> 00:13:04,960 Eat, Me, Nim were one of his 161 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,300 first signs, Hug was another one. 162 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,000 ♪ 163 00:13:11,370 --> 00:13:14,009 And it was as if, then, okay, we're off now. 164 00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:15,730 We just gotta build up the vocabulary. 165 00:13:17,210 --> 00:13:20,110 As much as we were molding him, we were molding these 166 00:13:20,110 --> 00:13:23,950 damn hands and all this stuff, he was starting to mold us. 167 00:13:25,330 --> 00:13:28,750 He knew every dynamic that was in the room instantly. 168 00:13:30,610 --> 00:13:33,150 He knew when you were upset, whatever had 169 00:13:33,150 --> 00:13:35,610 happened in whatever, you know, 13-,-year-old's life. 170 00:13:36,210 --> 00:13:40,410 And he would come over, and he would just come and sit 171 00:13:40,410 --> 00:13:43,590 with you and hug you and then just kiss the tears away. 172 00:13:43,930 --> 00:13:44,930 It was amazing. 173 00:13:46,570 --> 00:13:47,570 Just unconditional. 174 00:13:49,850 --> 00:13:55,090 He was my lifeline, he was my buddy, and he was bringing 175 00:13:55,090 --> 00:14:00,730 something out in me, a freedom to defy expectation and authority. 176 00:14:02,550 --> 00:14:06,290 His greatest focus of defiance was against Weir. 177 00:14:07,889 --> 00:14:10,210 He would, you know, kind of pull books off the 178 00:14:10,210 --> 00:14:12,769 shelves, and Weir liked his books a certain way. 179 00:14:13,610 --> 00:14:16,730 When he saw Weir coming, he would really do it. 180 00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:20,909 It was very focused, it was intentional. 181 00:14:21,230 --> 00:14:22,810 Fuck you, I'm touching these. 182 00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:27,399 It was a problem. 183 00:14:29,559 --> 00:14:30,559 Weir was so impotent. 184 00:14:32,139 --> 00:14:33,139 I mean, what could he do? 185 00:14:33,179 --> 00:14:35,819 He'd chase him around, drop that, you know, blah, blah, blah. 186 00:14:36,819 --> 00:14:37,980 I mean, he won every time. 187 00:14:38,500 --> 00:14:43,500 ♪ 188 00:14:46,649 --> 00:14:51,450 Nim saw Herb as his next adult male challenge. 189 00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:55,990 I mean, that is the life that he's hardwired for, to take 190 00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:59,389 on increasingly powerful male figures until he's the top. 191 00:15:00,470 --> 00:15:04,169 When Herb would come over expecting to step in and have 192 00:15:04,169 --> 00:15:08,610 control of Nim, and he couldn't and didn't, we loved it. 193 00:15:08,950 --> 00:15:09,950 We loved it. 194 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:14,000 I cornered them. 195 00:15:16,450 --> 00:15:21,310 I just went to pull him out of some hiding place, and he bit me. 196 00:15:23,550 --> 00:15:25,750 Frankly, everybody in the family got a 197 00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:28,410 kick out of him doing just what Herb hated. 198 00:15:30,150 --> 00:15:32,270 No one ever put him in his place, and he 199 00:15:32,270 --> 00:15:34,810 just grew more and more and more powerful. 200 00:15:35,850 --> 00:15:37,410 And that was exciting to me. 201 00:15:41,700 --> 00:15:44,580 We didn't have to try to control him in any way, in fact 202 00:15:44,940 --> 00:15:48,360 we enjoyed just letting him hang out and see how it went. 203 00:15:56,379 --> 00:15:58,100 Stephanie, being the kind of mother she 204 00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:00,439 was, was not very concerned about discipline. 205 00:16:01,740 --> 00:16:06,360 It was sort of the hippie mentality, and I think what 206 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,579 I would tell her would go in one ear and out the other. 207 00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:16,820 Herb would have wanted a schedule and structure 208 00:16:17,860 --> 00:16:21,159 and charted progress and notes and all of that. 209 00:16:23,950 --> 00:16:27,650 I didn't supply that, I couldn't create that, 210 00:16:27,830 --> 00:16:30,550 and I don't think Nim would have thrived in that. 211 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:41,000 ♪ 212 00:16:41,250 --> 00:16:43,000 ♪ 213 00:16:43,049 --> 00:16:47,409 I was taking classes at Columbia University and there was a 214 00:16:47,409 --> 00:16:51,729 small sign that said research assistant needed course credit granted. 215 00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:56,500 ♪ 216 00:16:56,649 --> 00:17:02,009 a man opened the door and he was completely breathless 217 00:17:02,009 --> 00:17:05,789 he also he's one of those men who was balding on the top 218 00:17:05,789 --> 00:17:11,190 so he had his hair pasted down but he was so upset and 219 00:17:11,190 --> 00:17:14,190 disheveled that his hair was standing straight up on one side 220 00:17:16,849 --> 00:17:21,269 He explained it was a language project and I 221 00:17:21,709 --> 00:17:24,509 immediately understood the scientific relevance. 222 00:17:25,969 --> 00:17:28,769 NIM was going to test the nature versus 223 00:17:28,769 --> 00:17:31,389 nurture hypotheses that were prevailing in the time. 224 00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:35,609 It really was at the cusp of science. 225 00:17:37,089 --> 00:17:39,009 You know, some things are just 226 00:17:39,009 --> 00:17:41,709 immediately obvious about someone from the beginning. 227 00:17:42,449 --> 00:17:44,849 You know what kind of person you have. 228 00:17:46,069 --> 00:17:48,269 I think she was 18, if I'm not mistaken. 229 00:17:50,650 --> 00:17:53,650 At the time, Nim was in Stephanie LaFarge's house, 230 00:17:54,090 --> 00:17:58,490 and my first job was to basically babysit, to go 231 00:17:58,490 --> 00:18:02,170 to the house and ostensibly teach him sign language. 232 00:18:02,250 --> 00:18:05,410 She came out of nowhere as a... 233 00:18:05,950 --> 00:18:07,830 cute little thing from Ramapo. 234 00:18:09,490 --> 00:18:12,210 When I got there, I was actually really surprised. 235 00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:16,230 There was utter chaos. 236 00:18:16,750 --> 00:18:18,210 There was nothing. 237 00:18:18,210 --> 00:18:20,250 This was a scientific project. 238 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:23,600 There were no journals. 239 00:18:24,019 --> 00:18:25,019 There were no logbooks. 240 00:18:25,540 --> 00:18:29,280 They didn't know who was covering them, when they were going to be 241 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,740 covering them, who would be teaching them, when they would be teaching them. 242 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:34,960 They didn't know what they were going to teach them. 243 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,940 She quickly felt her power. 244 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,420 It was completely visible. 245 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,519 You know, everybody had to adapt to it. 246 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:45,740 She wanted that mother role. 247 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,860 This animal climbed the walls all 248 00:18:51,860 --> 00:18:52,980 ♪ 249 00:18:54,220 --> 00:18:56,980 ripped apart Stephanie's house all day. 250 00:18:58,220 --> 00:19:03,540 The kinds of things she was exposing them to were atypical. 251 00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:10,540 He loved driving fast in cars, he loved 252 00:19:10,540 --> 00:19:14,140 motorcycles, he loved, you know, virtually anything thrilling. 253 00:19:17,150 --> 00:19:21,070 He liked alcohol, you'd give him a sip and he'd want more. 254 00:19:22,810 --> 00:19:26,090 We gave him puffs on a joint. 255 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,000 ♪ 256 00:19:33,450 --> 00:19:35,410 We didn't have to treat him like a child. 257 00:19:35,630 --> 00:19:39,230 We could expose him to the sensations that we enjoyed. 258 00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:45,890 I had an instinctive sense that something was very amiss 259 00:19:45,890 --> 00:19:49,289 here, that this is not the way 260 00:19:49,289 --> 00:19:51,910 you teach a child language 261 00:19:51,910 --> 00:19:57,250 or you interact with a child or you teach anything language. 262 00:19:59,450 --> 00:20:04,990 When Nim began to discover my body, my 263 00:20:04,990 --> 00:20:07,170 nakedness, it'd be curious, I mean, like a 264 00:20:07,170 --> 00:20:10,569 child, he was uninterested, and then one day he was interested. 265 00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:19,880 I never felt sexually engaged with him. 266 00:20:20,759 --> 00:20:25,120 There was a sensuality, but Nim was a, you know, a preteen. 267 00:20:27,539 --> 00:20:31,599 Stephanie was a graduate student in psychoanalysis. 268 00:20:31,919 --> 00:20:36,279 Her questions had to do with the Oedipal Complex, and she 269 00:20:36,279 --> 00:20:39,359 was interested in Nim's masturbation and how he masturbated. 270 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:40,480 I couldn't believe it. 271 00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:46,080 I realized that I could not do what 272 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,400 I call good science in Stephanie's home. 273 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:50,980 It just wasn't conducive to that. 274 00:20:52,380 --> 00:20:55,960 So I set up a classroom at Columbia. 275 00:20:58,039 --> 00:21:00,180 He's gonna take Nim to school. 276 00:21:00,819 --> 00:21:03,740 And I realize I'm starting to lose my role 277 00:21:03,740 --> 00:21:06,779 as the person who knows the best what he needs. 278 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,460 We had to get him in a 279 00:21:09,460 --> 00:21:13,759 context that was neutral, calming, soothing. 280 00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:22,359 I just mapped out a teaching plan for Nim, and I did it. 281 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,340 She was so enthusiastic about this that I made her, 282 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:33,420 in a sense, the director of education, the curriculum. 283 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,059 I was feeling good about myself. 284 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:38,920 Also, I was succeeding with Nim. 285 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,799 I could see I was succeeding with Nim. 286 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,100 I can see it. 287 00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:45,420 I can see that no one could hold a candle to me. 288 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,620 The only thing that mattered to him, it became more and more tense. 289 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,539 Words, words, words, words, words. 290 00:21:53,559 --> 00:21:54,940 Word order, word order, word order. 291 00:21:55,559 --> 00:21:57,460 He couldn't see anything else. 292 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,420 Herb started seeing the signs grow on that little graph. 293 00:22:01,799 --> 00:22:02,799 Every day. 294 00:22:03,140 --> 00:22:04,140 Every other day. 295 00:22:04,259 --> 00:22:05,259 Every three days. 296 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,120 Laura taught him another sign. 297 00:22:08,019 --> 00:22:09,160 Laura taught him another sign. 298 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,960 And I just went hell for leather. 299 00:22:15,700 --> 00:22:20,080 Them signing was just almost exponentially increasing. 300 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,700 I was very happy 301 00:22:23,740 --> 00:22:27,319 Words are a fucking nightmare when it 302 00:22:27,319 --> 00:22:31,900 comes to closeness often And 303 00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:34,279 here I was married to a poet working 304 00:22:34,279 --> 00:22:37,940 for a linguist You know, I was 305 00:22:37,940 --> 00:22:42,940 you know words were the became the enemy She started restricting 306 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,299 the times we can come in the house 307 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,539 She started throwing us out she 308 00:22:50,539 --> 00:22:56,220 apparently was You know encouraged to believe that she was now the mother 309 00:22:58,809 --> 00:23:01,569 Stephanie began to threaten to take Nim away from her. 310 00:23:05,250 --> 00:23:07,289 And Herb started panicking. 311 00:23:09,210 --> 00:23:13,509 I definitely initiated the move out of Stephanie's house. 312 00:23:14,009 --> 00:23:16,250 I think she was initially quite resistant to it, 313 00:23:16,990 --> 00:23:20,730 especially since she didn't know exactly how Nim was going to end up. 314 00:23:21,230 --> 00:23:22,230 God had spoken. 315 00:23:22,470 --> 00:23:23,750 That's what had happened. 316 00:23:23,950 --> 00:23:24,950 That's what was going on. 317 00:23:25,250 --> 00:23:26,349 And we didn't have control. 318 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,500 ♪ 319 00:23:34,249 --> 00:23:38,789 So, my separation from him was just as abrupt, in 320 00:23:38,789 --> 00:23:43,669 a way, at that moment, as his was from Carolyn's. 321 00:23:45,049 --> 00:23:49,409 I was, um, ostensibly conscious, but I was 322 00:23:49,409 --> 00:23:50,569 ♪ 323 00:23:50,869 --> 00:23:55,269 I was as unaware and, you know, 324 00:23:56,009 --> 00:23:58,490 -in-charge and helpless as she was. 325 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,500 ♪ 326 00:24:06,049 --> 00:24:07,529 It was heartbreaking. 327 00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:13,000 ♪ 328 00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:14,500 saying goodbye. 329 00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:19,500 ♪ 330 00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:22,740 Part of me did not want him to learn language. 331 00:24:25,849 --> 00:24:31,429 He was less with language than he was as his unique self. 332 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,000 ♪ 333 00:24:37,250 --> 00:24:38,500 ♪ 334 00:24:50,450 --> 00:24:53,330 At that time, a very lucky thing happened. 335 00:24:54,910 --> 00:24:59,690 I was aware that there was an estate that Columbia owned in 336 00:24:59,690 --> 00:25:04,870 Riverdale, a very large estate that used to be the home of the president. 337 00:25:06,450 --> 00:25:09,309 And I went to him with a proposition that if he 338 00:25:09,309 --> 00:25:12,470 allowed me to raise the chimp there, I would pay for the heat. 339 00:25:13,850 --> 00:25:14,930 And I said, sure. 340 00:25:15,500 --> 00:25:20,500 ♪ 341 00:25:20,750 --> 00:25:25,000 ♪ 342 00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:26,700 This was amazing. 343 00:25:27,660 --> 00:25:29,600 This was a fairytale. 344 00:25:31,650 --> 00:25:36,450 We got, it was a 28-acre estate surrounded by 345 00:25:36,450 --> 00:25:41,750 lovely gardens and that allowed me to put up NIMS 346 00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:45,330 teachers in magnificent surroundings and not pay any rent. 347 00:25:46,970 --> 00:25:47,970 The wife is good. 348 00:25:50,099 --> 00:25:54,699 Nim got out of the car, ran up to the front 349 00:25:54,699 --> 00:25:58,639 door, rolled down the hill, and he was gone. 350 00:25:59,799 --> 00:26:01,379 He was free. 351 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:07,000 ♪ 352 00:26:07,250 --> 00:26:09,500 ♪ 353 00:26:09,650 --> 00:26:14,390 So there was no reaction at having taken him out of Stephanie's house 354 00:26:16,570 --> 00:26:21,070 He was fine and it was like he had been there his whole life 355 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,000 ♪ 356 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,799 He certainly was a different chimpanzee 357 00:26:29,799 --> 00:26:32,019 in this mansion than he was with Stephanie. 358 00:26:32,819 --> 00:26:38,500 Um, so I sort of got into more, you know, interacting with him. 359 00:26:42,329 --> 00:26:46,230 Herb's power as a professor, his 360 00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:49,970 age completely impacted me. 361 00:26:51,630 --> 00:26:52,809 He was my model. 362 00:26:54,210 --> 00:26:55,549 We really clicked together. 363 00:26:59,250 --> 00:27:04,890 I wanted so much to be a part of his world. 364 00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:07,950 I wanted to be in that world of academia. 365 00:27:10,500 --> 00:27:13,259 I had strong personal feelings about Laura. 366 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,539 But I don't think that in any way got in the way of our science. 367 00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:26,000 ♪ 368 00:27:29,950 --> 00:27:34,090 Some of the daily bodily requirements that 369 00:27:34,090 --> 00:27:37,490 Nim had, had to be addressed and very quickly. 370 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,080 I eventually couldn't handle the diapers anymore. 371 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,400 He was getting bigger and he was eating more of our food. 372 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,539 So, pragmatically, I had to get him off those diapers. 373 00:27:52,750 --> 00:27:56,369 I watched his facial expressions when he needed the potty 374 00:27:56,369 --> 00:28:00,210 and I began to see it and grab him and bring him to the 375 00:28:00,210 --> 00:28:05,549 potty He did actually did use the toilet correctly, but 376 00:28:05,549 --> 00:28:09,809 it was certainly not as Reliable as what you'd see in a child 377 00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:20,089 The idea was that I would live with Nim and I would 378 00:28:20,649 --> 00:28:23,309 train him for a certain period of time in the house, 379 00:28:23,410 --> 00:28:26,450 but then I would bring him in every day to Columbia University. 380 00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:35,799 This was an experiment to teach or see if a chimpanzee can learn sign language. 381 00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:39,250 I just thought it was really interesting, 382 00:28:39,470 --> 00:28:42,309 intellectually interesting, interesting to 383 00:28:42,309 --> 00:28:45,869 understand how much chimpanzees are like us and how much they're not. 384 00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:49,500 ♪ 385 00:28:49,549 --> 00:28:51,710 At that time, he was terribly cute and 386 00:28:51,710 --> 00:28:53,609 getting little photos in New York Magazine. 387 00:28:55,230 --> 00:28:57,230 There was a daily lesson plan, if you will. 388 00:28:57,389 --> 00:29:01,129 We were supposed to teach these particular signs to Nim, 389 00:29:01,389 --> 00:29:05,829 and they were supposed to also teach him everyday activities. 390 00:29:06,450 --> 00:29:09,470 Dress yourself, undress yourself, this sort of thing. 391 00:29:11,169 --> 00:29:13,029 Like children, after they learn a few 392 00:29:13,029 --> 00:29:16,369 words, Nim has spontaneously put signs together. 393 00:29:16,989 --> 00:29:21,389 In many instances, we allow Nim to use his own signs 394 00:29:21,389 --> 00:29:24,409 that he almost invents, so long as they're consistent. 395 00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:28,809 For example, this is the sign for play that he invented. 396 00:29:29,069 --> 00:29:30,629 He's learning signs rapidly. 397 00:29:31,089 --> 00:29:32,569 They're going up, up, up, up, up. 398 00:29:33,269 --> 00:29:34,990 The project was literally humming. 399 00:29:35,690 --> 00:29:37,690 Everything was going very smoothly. 400 00:29:38,589 --> 00:29:41,649 I have a chimpanzee who was making history. 401 00:29:42,629 --> 00:29:44,909 We did get a grant somewhere in that time. 402 00:29:45,429 --> 00:29:49,190 The project had begun to enter the media, so there 403 00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:52,250 was all this excitement and hype about the project. 404 00:29:52,409 --> 00:29:53,409 We were thrilled. 405 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,000 ♪ 406 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,920 We've probably all seen performing chimpanzees on 407 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,660 television or in circuses, but Nim is no ordinary chimp. 408 00:30:05,460 --> 00:30:08,220 Since he was a few weeks old, Nim has lived in a 409 00:30:08,220 --> 00:30:10,980 close association with a group of scientists under 410 00:30:10,980 --> 00:30:13,840 the direction of Dr. Herbert Terrace of Columbia University. 411 00:30:14,580 --> 00:30:17,900 They're performing a unique experiment to try to determine 412 00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:21,940 whether apes can be taught to communicate with humans using language. 413 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,960 How big will he be when he's full grown? 414 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,539 Oh, he's going to be big. 415 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,340 He's going to be about five feet tall, perhaps 150 416 00:30:29,340 --> 00:30:33,840 pounds, and supposedly five to six times the strength of a man. 417 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,860 How are you going to be able to handle him then? 418 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,259 He had grown, I guess he was probably something like that. 419 00:30:43,420 --> 00:30:47,120 And he, you know, if you had to hold him, you really had to hold him. 420 00:30:47,639 --> 00:30:50,100 And he's gone from being this meek little 421 00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:54,920 huggable toy to quite a robust young chimpanzee. 422 00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:59,000 ♪ 423 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,100 His eye teeth were never taken out, which means 424 00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:04,840 that he's got fangs, essentially, sitting here. 425 00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:06,319 Extremely strong jaw. 426 00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:09,779 If you didn't assert dominance in some 427 00:31:09,779 --> 00:31:11,980 fashion, you were going to be in trouble eventually. 428 00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:17,120 He could size somebody up in two seconds, 429 00:31:18,180 --> 00:31:22,340 whether they were confident or secretly unconfident. 430 00:31:22,940 --> 00:31:27,640 If I stood up too quickly, if I accidentally showed 431 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:32,040 him my back too quickly, if I had food and I wouldn't... 432 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:33,700 I didn't think to share it with him, 433 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,240 he'd cross that threshold and go into attack. 434 00:31:38,750 --> 00:31:40,890 You could tell that he was getting an attitude. 435 00:31:41,490 --> 00:31:46,569 The hair would go up on his arms, and you sort of get this look in his face. 436 00:31:47,569 --> 00:31:51,549 When he would bark, I'd feel 437 00:31:51,549 --> 00:31:54,009 it inside, the danger. 438 00:31:56,130 --> 00:32:02,130 He had to lunge, the contact, the rip, the tear, and the release. 439 00:32:02,509 --> 00:32:03,710 And he had to draw blood. 440 00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:11,230 She did not tell me that in an alarming manner. 441 00:32:11,490 --> 00:32:12,490 She was just reporting it. 442 00:32:13,490 --> 00:32:17,090 Maybe I was just too, uh, looking ahead 443 00:32:17,090 --> 00:32:18,690 with blinkers and not wanting to hear that. 444 00:32:19,069 --> 00:32:20,410 This is 37 stitches. 445 00:32:21,370 --> 00:32:24,930 Um, I had, uh, four here, uh, nine here. 446 00:32:25,289 --> 00:32:27,930 This one, uh, sent me into the hospital. 447 00:32:28,069 --> 00:32:30,990 This one actually was the most dangerous one because he hit a tendon. 448 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,000 ♪ 449 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,980 It's a lot of work to take care of an animal that's 450 00:32:47,980 --> 00:32:50,180 not your species, who has that kind of energy level. 451 00:32:50,779 --> 00:32:52,759 I probably didn't know the difference between chimpanzees and 452 00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:57,319 monkeys, so I was as blind and as ignorant 453 00:32:57,319 --> 00:32:59,099 and as naive as probably they came. 454 00:32:59,319 --> 00:33:00,559 I was on a quick learning curve. 455 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,240 I have high energy and enthusiasm for a goal. 456 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,420 And he was my goal, apparently. 457 00:33:09,819 --> 00:33:11,359 Joyce was a great teacher. 458 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:12,880 She signed. 459 00:33:13,059 --> 00:33:15,980 She was completely dedicated and motivated. 460 00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:18,019 She wanted to do this. 461 00:33:18,619 --> 00:33:19,660 This was fantastic. 462 00:33:22,450 --> 00:33:26,029 He bit me really hard, and I bit him on the ear right then and there. 463 00:33:27,009 --> 00:33:29,509 And I said, that's over, you will never bite me again, and he never did. 464 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,500 ♪ 465 00:33:33,549 --> 00:33:36,750 He did like a lot of human body contact. 466 00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:42,009 Typically when we would leave the property, he would be really attached to it. 467 00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:47,539 The world would scare him, so he would always come close. 468 00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:52,500 ♪ 469 00:33:54,250 --> 00:33:57,069 Bill and I hung tight with them. 470 00:33:57,869 --> 00:34:01,089 We sort of hit it off on a lot of our different thinking. 471 00:34:02,690 --> 00:34:03,890 She and I got together as a couple. 472 00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:10,159 It helped that we liked each other and I think that that 473 00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:14,960 helped Nim's life because we enjoyed each other's company so 474 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,440 we would do things together and we would hang out as kind of a unit. 475 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,000 ♪ 476 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:25,980 Oh, he loves the cats. 477 00:34:27,720 --> 00:34:30,639 He was really, really tender with the cat, and he'd hold 478 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:33,840 it, and he just liked the feel, the touch, something about it. 479 00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:39,280 He, like, would hold her and be, like, and you could see him, 480 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,059 like, shaking because he'd be, like, so excited that he had her. 481 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,039 Actually, like, kind of pushed her down on the ground and then 482 00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:50,059 curled around her and just, like, laid there, like, I'm in heaven. 483 00:34:58,500 --> 00:35:04,000 ♪ 484 00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:09,060 I would say that it was fairly clear that there was 485 00:35:09,060 --> 00:35:12,680 something more going on than the project, at least from his side. 486 00:35:14,849 --> 00:35:18,449 And I think we all felt it and we kind of had I 487 00:35:18,449 --> 00:35:20,889 don't want to say resentment But I was like, huh? 488 00:35:21,009 --> 00:35:25,289 She's what he sort of stopped this Laura thing If someone 489 00:35:25,289 --> 00:35:30,429 showed me some attention, I thought it meant that they cared for me 490 00:35:32,449 --> 00:35:33,849 He had power. 491 00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:41,050 I'm sure that, you know, unconsciously I took advantage of that. 492 00:35:41,889 --> 00:35:46,429 If somebody admires you, why not? 493 00:35:49,130 --> 00:35:52,550 So, yeah, we very briefly got involved and he 494 00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:56,369 very, very briefly and abruptly got out of it. 495 00:35:58,650 --> 00:36:03,190 The entanglement completely affected my decision to leave. 496 00:36:04,110 --> 00:36:07,250 It's the humans I wanted to leave, not the chimp. 497 00:36:09,369 --> 00:36:10,809 Herb didn't want it to happen. 498 00:36:11,050 --> 00:36:15,570 He went into a very enthusiastic mode of 499 00:36:15,570 --> 00:36:17,110 trying to convince me not to go. 500 00:36:17,570 --> 00:36:18,570 I wasn't panicked. 501 00:36:19,269 --> 00:36:21,289 I wasn't panicked that the project was just 502 00:36:21,289 --> 00:36:23,389 going to grind to a halt because Laura left. 503 00:36:24,670 --> 00:36:28,230 As I recall, Joyce and Bill pretty much took care of that. 504 00:36:28,670 --> 00:36:32,849 So I didn't lose any crucial aspect of the project. 505 00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:39,000 ♪ 506 00:36:39,150 --> 00:36:43,889 I started to go to get the boxes to leave 507 00:36:44,250 --> 00:36:47,869 and Nim pulled loose from the person's hand. 508 00:36:48,250 --> 00:36:51,250 He climbs to the second floor of the house. 509 00:36:51,730 --> 00:36:54,889 Then he must have lunged 25 feet. 510 00:36:57,650 --> 00:37:03,870 He landed on me, he took my head, and 511 00:37:03,870 --> 00:37:07,090 he started pounding it into the pavement. 512 00:37:09,449 --> 00:37:12,649 It took four males to get him off me. 513 00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:18,500 ♪ 514 00:37:18,750 --> 00:37:22,000 ♪ 515 00:37:22,349 --> 00:37:23,849 He wasn't my child. 516 00:37:24,650 --> 00:37:25,650 He wasn't my baby. 517 00:37:26,630 --> 00:37:31,750 You can't give human nurturing to an animal that could kill you. 518 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,500 ♪ 519 00:37:43,550 --> 00:37:49,210 One of the easy parts of the project was to advertise for teachers. 520 00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:52,730 It's like, oh, this is nice. 521 00:37:53,550 --> 00:37:56,410 I didn't set out to have women on the project, 522 00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:58,510 predominantly, but it certainly turned out that way. 523 00:38:00,650 --> 00:38:03,250 You know, if that's the way it turned out, that's the way it turned out. 524 00:38:03,490 --> 00:38:05,389 I was a trained interpreter for the deaf. 525 00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:08,590 When I set my mind to something, I get what I want. 526 00:38:10,750 --> 00:38:12,309 I kept saying, I want to live here, when 527 00:38:12,309 --> 00:38:13,849 am I moving in, when do I get to move in? 528 00:38:14,250 --> 00:38:15,789 And I would annoy her. 529 00:38:16,489 --> 00:38:18,070 And finally he let me move in. 530 00:38:20,110 --> 00:38:22,789 Probably as time went on, it may become 531 00:38:22,789 --> 00:38:25,050 more difficult for women to work with him. 532 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:28,900 He was gonna take advantage of the man. 533 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,880 He was big enough and strong enough that he could I 534 00:38:33,460 --> 00:38:37,019 Mean it hurt his bites hurt you felt when he bit your 535 00:38:37,019 --> 00:38:40,639 hand He got the nerve and you'd get a running shock up your arm 536 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,800 We had epic battles, though, but we made up. 537 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,800 You'd make that face and sign, sorry. 538 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,000 I'd say, well, if I sign this, you'll forgive me. 539 00:38:55,949 --> 00:38:58,049 I had a relationship with a chimpanzee 540 00:38:58,049 --> 00:39:00,049 and I had conversations with another species. 541 00:39:04,009 --> 00:39:06,809 It's not just him signing that was important to me, it 542 00:39:06,809 --> 00:39:10,369 was what he was thinking and experiencing because we 543 00:39:10,369 --> 00:39:13,029 would talk when we would hang out, you know, we would 544 00:39:13,029 --> 00:39:15,109 talk about the things we would see, the things we would hear. 545 00:39:16,989 --> 00:39:20,149 As far as I'm concerned, our classroom was the house 546 00:39:20,149 --> 00:39:22,269 and the yard and the field trips that we would take. 547 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:28,500 ♪ 548 00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:34,710 Science is a very objective enterprise. 549 00:39:35,170 --> 00:39:38,309 You can't have personal anecdotes of how I worked 550 00:39:38,309 --> 00:39:41,150 with Nimma Padilla-Field as opposed to the classroom. 551 00:39:41,530 --> 00:39:44,190 That's just of no interest to a scientist. 552 00:39:45,429 --> 00:39:48,550 Joyce did not see anything special about the classroom. 553 00:39:49,130 --> 00:39:50,130 Hated it. 554 00:39:50,510 --> 00:39:52,170 Hated it. Hated it. He hated it. 555 00:39:52,269 --> 00:39:55,050 We hated it. That's not surprising, because she didn't 556 00:39:55,050 --> 00:39:59,230 get the results in the classroom that I was hoping for. 557 00:39:59,789 --> 00:40:01,489 Hey, do you know what time it is? 558 00:40:01,710 --> 00:40:04,150 Yeah. Going into a dungeon of a classroom, which 559 00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:06,150 it really was, I mean, the thing was 15 feet 560 00:40:06,150 --> 00:40:08,730 square, including the observation booth and everything else. 561 00:40:09,969 --> 00:40:12,630 No windows, no place really to have any activity. 562 00:40:13,010 --> 00:40:15,250 Trying to get Nim's attention was a bit of a 563 00:40:15,250 --> 00:40:18,130 struggle, and he would have rather been doing something else. 564 00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:23,699 Pay attention to me. 565 00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:27,500 ♪ 566 00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:33,619 So this is a sign for dirty, so we used it 567 00:40:33,619 --> 00:40:36,519 for toilet for him because it's a contact sign. 568 00:40:39,740 --> 00:40:41,760 He would jump through the signs that I asked 569 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,519 him to jump through and then he would have had 570 00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:46,160 enough and he would say I need to go to the bathroom 571 00:40:49,300 --> 00:40:50,300 Bye. 572 00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:56,579 And that's when I knew, you little bugger. 573 00:40:57,639 --> 00:41:00,340 You used that sign because you knew it would 574 00:41:00,340 --> 00:41:02,740 make us leave there and get us out of there. 575 00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:07,849 ♪ 576 00:41:07,849 --> 00:41:09,849 He was growing smarter and smarter. 577 00:41:11,349 --> 00:41:15,369 And smarter in the sense of recognizing situations that he 578 00:41:15,369 --> 00:41:18,329 could take advantage of, when he could get what he wanted. 579 00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:24,500 ♪ 580 00:41:24,750 --> 00:41:26,000 ♪ 581 00:41:28,659 --> 00:41:30,759 He was starting to discover himself. 582 00:41:31,939 --> 00:41:35,399 There was a big rock in the front yard, and he used to like to bump it. 583 00:41:36,599 --> 00:41:37,599 I don't know. 584 00:41:37,659 --> 00:41:38,659 You're gonna hurt yourself. 585 00:41:38,739 --> 00:41:39,739 That's a rock. 586 00:41:39,859 --> 00:41:40,859 Like, look at himself. 587 00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:45,159 As this whole thing with the physicality became, you 588 00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:47,799 know, an issue, he was much more cautious, I think, about 589 00:41:47,799 --> 00:41:52,239 letting the cats around him and letting him play with the cats. 590 00:41:55,029 --> 00:41:59,589 He would even try to not engage directly in sexual relationships with 591 00:41:59,589 --> 00:42:04,250 the animals, but definitely to bring them to him and to his penis area. 592 00:42:09,050 --> 00:42:12,570 And I just said, no, that's not what they're there for. 593 00:42:19,570 --> 00:42:21,869 We realized, I think all of us, that it was 594 00:42:21,869 --> 00:42:26,309 becoming increasingly difficult to pursue the experiment. 595 00:42:27,570 --> 00:42:29,110 Nim was scratching hard, he was biting 596 00:42:29,110 --> 00:42:32,750 harder, biting more often, biting more people. 597 00:42:34,469 --> 00:42:39,670 We hadn't mentioned the growing concern that we had about how to deal with Nim. 598 00:42:41,789 --> 00:42:44,349 Dr. Terrace was pretty much an absentee landlord. 599 00:42:45,170 --> 00:42:47,510 Herb was never alone with Nim, and Herb 600 00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:49,110 never had to spend any kind of time with Nim. 601 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,559 Once in a while, you know, photo shoots for him to 602 00:42:53,559 --> 00:42:55,820 either take photos or for him to have photos taken of him. 603 00:42:59,910 --> 00:43:03,769 Yes, there were occasional bites, I imagine they 604 00:43:04,369 --> 00:43:06,830 increased in frequency just because Nim's getting older. 605 00:43:07,930 --> 00:43:09,870 In that sense, it was becoming more chimp-like. 606 00:43:11,949 --> 00:43:15,069 But it didn't seem to be a cause for alarm at that point. 607 00:43:17,300 --> 00:43:21,940 It was the end of July, it was July 28th and 608 00:43:21,940 --> 00:43:25,440 Bill had him and we did the-to-body transfer. 609 00:43:28,099 --> 00:43:32,019 I mean you're holding, you're holding them and the other person 610 00:43:32,019 --> 00:43:35,500 comes up and you just kind of hand the chimp to the other person. 611 00:43:35,739 --> 00:43:39,980 And I said come on and I got the tether, you know, 612 00:43:40,199 --> 00:43:43,159 you've got the loop first and I then tied it to my belt. 613 00:43:44,599 --> 00:43:48,480 Come here and he came over and he put his arms around me. 614 00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:54,570 He just crunched my face it just happened 615 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,059 And I grabbed Nim and just dragged him into the house. 616 00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:03,300 Sorry, sorry, sorry, no, no, no, no. 617 00:44:03,380 --> 00:44:06,960 And I passed that armor with that mirror, and I saw all this blood. 618 00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:11,360 He had bit through my cheek, almost to the inside of my mouth. 619 00:44:11,579 --> 00:44:14,460 It was folded over, so you could see inside my face. 620 00:44:18,949 --> 00:44:21,849 I don't recall if she went to the emergency 621 00:44:21,849 --> 00:44:24,049 room, but I think that something like that happened. 622 00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:30,119 It was just it was just bad. 623 00:44:31,099 --> 00:44:33,360 I was probably worried that you would sue 624 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:37,599 me Or this would become a public. 625 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,699 This would become public knowledge about how 626 00:44:42,739 --> 00:44:45,579 Life-threatening the project might be they couldn't 627 00:44:45,579 --> 00:44:48,239 sew it because of the infection and a risk of 628 00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:53,119 infection So I had an open gaping wound on my face for three months 629 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:59,000 ♪ 630 00:44:59,250 --> 00:45:02,000 ♪ 631 00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:04,260 And when I got out of the hospital, I 632 00:45:04,260 --> 00:45:07,220 said, you know, I I want to see him he went. 633 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,160 Oh And he went to reach for my face again. 634 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:11,400 Well, that's it. 635 00:45:11,519 --> 00:45:12,760 I don't need closure now. 636 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:13,880 I'm out of here. 637 00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:14,900 I was 638 00:45:17,949 --> 00:45:20,149 I'm tenacious and I didn't want to let go. 639 00:45:21,149 --> 00:45:22,829 Sort of like breaking up with a bad boyfriend. 640 00:45:23,500 --> 00:45:28,500 ♪ 641 00:45:28,650 --> 00:45:32,869 I was sorry that it came to that but you just 642 00:45:32,869 --> 00:45:36,570 don't know how NIM is going to change and you just 643 00:45:36,570 --> 00:45:40,430 can't count on having outstanding teachers all the time. 644 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:45,500 ♪ 645 00:45:48,900 --> 00:45:53,160 I felt I was spreading myself too thinly and 646 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:57,860 experiencing too much stress and not enough good results. 647 00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:04,960 Nobody keeps a chimp for more than five years 648 00:46:05,340 --> 00:46:08,639 because at five years they don't know their own 649 00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:10,840 strength and they can do a lot of damage to people. 650 00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:16,500 ♪ 651 00:46:16,699 --> 00:46:20,539 He called us together and dropped the bomb and said it's over. 652 00:46:24,099 --> 00:46:25,980 I was one very angry 653 00:46:32,650 --> 00:46:35,329 You don't say, we're not doing this anymore. 654 00:46:36,269 --> 00:46:39,510 And because Herb had that card to play, he 655 00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:40,889 played it because he was in the power seat. 656 00:46:42,500 --> 00:46:45,500 ♪ 657 00:46:45,650 --> 00:46:50,930 I think I said there's no point of this going on scientifically. 658 00:46:54,099 --> 00:46:57,219 I felt that NIMH had progressed a lot and we 659 00:46:57,219 --> 00:46:59,079 hadn't had a chance to really analyze our data. 660 00:46:59,839 --> 00:47:02,119 I just knew that we had reams of data. 661 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,239 This whole mass of data that needed to be organized 662 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,059 and that was going to be a long and tedious process. 663 00:47:13,900 --> 00:47:17,880 The fundamental question was, can a chimpanzee create a sentence? 664 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,619 I don't think I had any definitive conclusion to that. 665 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:24,360 We had to wait and see. 666 00:47:27,699 --> 00:47:30,939 It's kind of like, you know, you get you're almost there and you 667 00:47:30,939 --> 00:47:33,239 feel like there's gonna be a conclusion 668 00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:38,259 and It's like okay It's over 669 00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:45,900 I thought that the surroundings in which he was born 670 00:47:46,460 --> 00:47:50,440 would provide the most psychological support for them. 671 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,579 I felt the basic needs would be taken care of. 672 00:47:59,199 --> 00:48:04,239 So, once I got the lemon to agree to take it back, that was it. 673 00:48:16,699 --> 00:48:18,219 I hope he'll be okay. 674 00:48:19,299 --> 00:48:20,319 That's why I want to go with him. 675 00:48:21,019 --> 00:48:24,779 I hope that I'll be able to introduce him to his new life, 676 00:48:25,279 --> 00:48:27,980 but still have an old part of his life with him, namely me. 677 00:48:28,579 --> 00:48:31,679 And he can get used to it, and I can fade out, and he'll be fine. 678 00:48:32,859 --> 00:48:36,559 It won't just be an abrupt break between old and new. 679 00:48:38,500 --> 00:48:43,500 ♪ 680 00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:48,750 ♪ 681 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:54,000 ♪ 682 00:48:54,250 --> 00:48:56,500 ♪ 683 00:48:56,949 --> 00:48:59,069 and we'd getting him up early one morning. 684 00:49:00,969 --> 00:49:02,329 He gets a shot and he's out. 685 00:49:10,460 --> 00:49:13,719 I chartered a plane and hired a pilot. 686 00:49:24,650 --> 00:49:27,329 and then was given tranquilizers to reduce 687 00:49:27,329 --> 00:49:29,329 the possibility of his getting out of hand. 688 00:49:33,150 --> 00:49:37,929 If he was tranquilized, he'd be easy to control and not 689 00:49:37,929 --> 00:49:40,730 do any damage to the plane, which could be quite dangerous. 690 00:49:42,510 --> 00:49:44,230 So that's how we get him to Oklahoma. 691 00:49:46,070 --> 00:49:48,469 It was just a nasty... 692 00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:51,410 Very deceitful. 693 00:49:56,750 --> 00:49:59,110 The question is what was going to happen in Oklahoma, 694 00:50:00,409 --> 00:50:01,710 ♪ 695 00:50:01,710 --> 00:50:04,110 didn't have any sense of that so that was my concern 696 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:10,000 ♪ 697 00:50:10,250 --> 00:50:15,250 ♪ 698 00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:20,500 ♪ 699 00:50:20,750 --> 00:50:23,500 ♪ 700 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,000 ♪ 701 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:37,119 Holy shit, was my first thought. 702 00:50:39,500 --> 00:50:43,559 And I think his reaction was, holy shit, too. 703 00:50:44,380 --> 00:50:46,740 Like he knew we were, he knew it was bad. 704 00:50:49,449 --> 00:50:53,909 And he'd never seen a chimp before and he was holding on tight 705 00:50:59,849 --> 00:51:01,589 You look around, you see cages, and you 706 00:51:01,589 --> 00:51:04,610 hear the sounds of a lot of chimpanzees. 707 00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:07,589 Would I have envisioned this when I started 708 00:51:07,589 --> 00:51:10,069 this project, that he ever would end up there? 709 00:51:10,389 --> 00:51:11,389 No. 710 00:51:15,550 --> 00:51:20,769 It turned out to be a surprisingly more primitive facility than I remembered. 711 00:51:23,430 --> 00:51:25,370 Because our cages were cages. 712 00:51:25,710 --> 00:51:27,269 They weren't just a room with a locked door. 713 00:51:27,370 --> 00:51:28,370 They were cages. 714 00:51:28,970 --> 00:51:30,310 I mean, it looked like a prison. 715 00:51:30,670 --> 00:51:35,789 Really stark, ugly, dark, dank prison. 716 00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:40,990 They had a chain around their neck with a lock. 717 00:51:43,660 --> 00:51:46,680 Should you get into a bad fight, you 718 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,940 could grab the chain and keep them off of you. 719 00:51:49,180 --> 00:51:50,360 It was like prison behavior. 720 00:51:50,620 --> 00:51:53,340 We had to put up an electric fence around the island 721 00:51:53,340 --> 00:51:57,039 because we had had several murders and two suicides. 722 00:51:58,140 --> 00:52:00,100 They'd just push them out into the water. 723 00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:01,720 Chips can't swim. 724 00:52:02,060 --> 00:52:04,080 Dr. Lemon ran the place. 725 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,900 I had an immediate horrible reaction. 726 00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,360 He walked around with a cattle prod. 727 00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:17,320 I remember trying to push him away because I knew what he was going to do. 728 00:52:18,179 --> 00:52:21,820 And he was screaming and holding on to me very tightly. 729 00:52:22,820 --> 00:52:26,019 And the only reason he let go was 730 00:52:26,019 --> 00:52:28,760 because he got stabbed with the electric prop. 731 00:52:34,349 --> 00:52:35,349 Come here, Mac. 732 00:52:35,369 --> 00:52:36,469 Mac, come here, Mac. 733 00:52:36,829 --> 00:52:38,529 Come here, come here. 734 00:52:39,110 --> 00:52:41,929 The reasoning behind the whole Mac-Nim 735 00:52:41,929 --> 00:52:45,469 interaction was that Mac was not dangerous. 736 00:52:47,849 --> 00:52:51,190 He was small, so he was 737 00:52:51,609 --> 00:52:54,069 not an aggressive, dominant chimp. 738 00:52:54,309 --> 00:52:56,949 So he was the perfect one for Nim to start with. 739 00:53:00,750 --> 00:53:01,869 -Oh, she's coming. -Hey, do it. 740 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:24,099 -See ya, man. -See ya. 741 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:38,360 -Hey, Mac. -Uh-uh. 742 00:53:38,659 --> 00:53:39,659 Bah. 743 00:53:41,550 --> 00:53:42,550 Oh 744 00:53:48,300 --> 00:53:52,680 How did you expect Nim to react to his first meeting with another champion? 745 00:53:53,700 --> 00:53:55,280 I think what happened was that Nim was very 746 00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,620 apprehensive about Mac and he took his time and 747 00:53:58,620 --> 00:54:02,019 then when he was ready, you know, he and Mac got it off. 748 00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:07,630 I feel very good about this, because I can leave now knowing 749 00:54:07,630 --> 00:54:12,650 that Nim has a friend, and he's going to worry less about his 750 00:54:12,650 --> 00:54:15,530 human companions, and have at least one other chimp to turn to. 751 00:54:24,349 --> 00:54:29,650 It was time to leave, and that's when I took him and put him in the cage. 752 00:54:33,980 --> 00:54:37,980 Sure, I didn't want Joyce doing it, so I just said, well, I'm gonna go do it. 753 00:54:37,980 --> 00:54:39,360 I didn't want Terrace doing it. 754 00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,639 Um, so... I just decided I was gonna do it. 755 00:54:52,250 --> 00:54:56,550 You know we coaxed him down there and then Because he trusted us. 756 00:54:56,949 --> 00:55:01,070 I just let him in there and took the lead and tied it around the 757 00:55:01,070 --> 00:55:05,329 far end of the cage and Say goodbye and walked out and shut the door 758 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:12,000 ♪ 759 00:55:12,250 --> 00:55:17,250 ♪ 760 00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,920 He was sort of hooting and trying to come after me because 761 00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:27,119 he didn't really know where he was, but I just walked away. 762 00:55:29,349 --> 00:55:30,730 And that way it wasn't like an Iran. 763 00:55:31,500 --> 00:55:36,500 ♪ 764 00:55:36,750 --> 00:55:41,750 ♪ 765 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:47,000 ♪ 766 00:55:47,250 --> 00:55:49,000 ♪ 767 00:55:49,099 --> 00:55:50,099 I did feel badly. 768 00:55:53,550 --> 00:55:56,570 I felt in a certain basic sense that was not the right 769 00:55:56,570 --> 00:55:59,570 thing to do to somebody, you know We've been part of 770 00:55:59,570 --> 00:56:02,890 my life for so many years And that I was definitely 771 00:56:02,890 --> 00:56:07,610 doing Something that he somehow would feel was unjust or wrong 772 00:56:08,500 --> 00:56:14,000 ♪ 773 00:56:14,199 --> 00:56:17,579 He had a little doll or something that I think I left. 774 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:23,000 ♪ 775 00:56:23,250 --> 00:56:24,500 ♪ 776 00:56:24,500 --> 00:56:29,199 I strongly believe that we made a commitment to him, and we failed. 777 00:56:31,550 --> 00:56:37,269 We did a huge disservice to that soul and shame on us 778 00:56:48,259 --> 00:56:51,039 Assumed, I guess, wrongly, that Nim was gonna 779 00:56:51,039 --> 00:56:53,480 come back and he was gonna be celebrated in the 780 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,239 sense that he was gonna be the Great Signing Chimp. 781 00:56:56,939 --> 00:56:58,599 No, exactly the opposite. 782 00:56:59,299 --> 00:57:00,460 Exactly the opposite. 783 00:57:03,079 --> 00:57:04,419 Nim in the cage. 784 00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:05,819 No special treatment. 785 00:57:06,019 --> 00:57:07,019 No yogurt. 786 00:57:07,019 --> 00:57:08,019 No granola. 787 00:57:08,079 --> 00:57:09,079 No... 788 00:57:09,079 --> 00:57:10,079 None of that. 789 00:57:10,359 --> 00:57:11,619 It's pretty traumatic for the chimp. 790 00:57:17,699 --> 00:57:21,119 They curl up and lay down. 791 00:57:21,919 --> 00:57:24,699 They lose interest in food, they're just... 792 00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,500 ♪ 793 00:57:28,699 --> 00:57:31,859 It was a bad start with them, and I the chimp is very 794 00:57:31,859 --> 00:57:36,179 upset And he just looks at me, and he jumps and lunches me 795 00:57:36,179 --> 00:57:41,579 and bites through an artery right in here I Did use a small shop? 796 00:57:45,300 --> 00:57:50,360 He had to grow up and not be a single spoiled child anymore. 797 00:57:52,650 --> 00:57:58,190 So you gotta socialize, work on his chimpanzee and manners. 798 00:57:58,500 --> 00:58:03,500 ♪ 799 00:58:03,750 --> 00:58:06,500 ♪ 800 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,340 Everybody needs a job, meaning and purpose. 801 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:15,000 ♪ 802 00:58:15,150 --> 00:58:17,990 Had them out, they would help me in the big 803 00:58:17,990 --> 00:58:20,710 kitchen where we prepped our food and did stuff. 804 00:58:20,829 --> 00:58:21,829 They'd sweep. 805 00:58:22,530 --> 00:58:24,289 Nim was an impulsive hand washer. 806 00:58:24,490 --> 00:58:25,510 He'd do dishes. 807 00:58:27,050 --> 00:58:28,769 Vanessa liked to dust. 808 00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:33,289 Little Mac liked to clean cages and wear my boots. 809 00:58:38,220 --> 00:58:41,100 This was a special group of chimps, you know, they weren't 810 00:58:41,100 --> 00:58:45,060 ordinary chimps, you know, they had the capacity for higher consciousness. 811 00:59:07,739 --> 00:59:09,839 Terrence came back a year later. 812 00:59:11,819 --> 00:59:16,939 Herb arrived with still photographers and cameras and that sort of thing. 813 00:59:18,439 --> 00:59:20,639 It was a shoot and it was arranged as such. 814 00:59:23,449 --> 00:59:28,009 And there was no question that he was very happy that he could see me again. 815 00:59:28,669 --> 00:59:31,569 There was no anger that, why did you leave me here? 816 00:59:32,109 --> 00:59:35,689 It was just, hey, that's great, I want to see him again. 817 00:59:37,369 --> 00:59:40,189 You could see that he was like, holy shit, I'm going back to New York. 818 00:59:40,689 --> 00:59:41,689 It was like that. 819 00:59:42,189 --> 00:59:43,349 Like he was going to be rescued. 820 00:59:45,409 --> 00:59:47,909 It was kind of sad. 821 00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:52,920 I played with him. 822 00:59:53,159 --> 00:59:54,480 We got into games of signing. 823 00:59:55,119 --> 00:59:57,000 I remember I got him to sign hug. 824 00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:58,659 I got him to sign herb. 825 00:59:59,259 --> 01:00:01,179 In fact, I can get almost any sign out of him. 826 01:00:01,380 --> 01:00:02,559 I didn't have to go through a drill. 827 01:00:04,639 --> 01:00:07,380 So it was a very entertaining, comfortable afternoon. 828 01:00:08,039 --> 01:00:09,619 No bad behavior of any kind. 829 01:00:10,940 --> 01:00:16,839 At the end of the day, Lexetta's watch gives me nimback and flies off. 830 01:00:18,519 --> 01:00:19,519 And it's gone. 831 01:00:20,879 --> 01:00:23,319 Next morning, he barely ate. 832 01:00:23,799 --> 01:00:26,579 He just started to crater. 833 01:00:29,349 --> 01:00:30,730 Herb never came back. 834 01:00:33,750 --> 01:00:36,449 I thought, I'm gonna become Nim's friend, and 835 01:00:36,449 --> 01:00:38,889 I'm gonna hang with Nim, and we'll see what happens. 836 01:00:40,730 --> 01:00:42,269 I mean, there wasn't much I could do for 837 01:00:42,269 --> 01:00:44,349 him, in terms of the cage, but get him out. 838 01:00:46,980 --> 01:00:48,119 Oh, you saw that, huh? 839 01:00:51,050 --> 01:00:52,050 See you later, Nan. 840 01:00:56,900 --> 01:01:00,720 We just liked each other right off, and sometimes it's like that. 841 01:01:04,500 --> 01:01:09,500 ♪ 842 01:01:09,750 --> 01:01:12,000 ♪ 843 01:01:16,740 --> 01:01:17,780 chimps aren't humans. 844 01:01:19,260 --> 01:01:21,940 You have to kind of understand chimps to be able 845 01:01:21,940 --> 01:01:24,740 to understand how to work with them and be with them. 846 01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:29,500 ♪ 847 01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:33,250 I took him out on walks, I didn't bring food, I 848 01:01:33,250 --> 01:01:36,369 didn't do the kind of things that would interrupt 849 01:01:36,829 --> 01:01:39,630 the relationship or the building of the relationship. 850 01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,400 you know he grows on you quick. 851 01:01:48,159 --> 01:01:49,579 He was so charming. 852 01:01:49,660 --> 01:01:51,300 I mean it didn't occur to me that 853 01:01:51,300 --> 01:01:53,900 animals had that kind of personality like ours. 854 01:01:56,250 --> 01:01:58,570 And you had to be two of heart. 855 01:01:59,170 --> 01:02:00,989 You had to be two of heart. 856 01:02:01,469 --> 01:02:04,150 If you had dark places in you, they'd know it. 857 01:02:04,190 --> 01:02:05,190 They wouldn't like it. 858 01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:25,619 Good morning. With us this morning is Dr. Herbert 859 01:02:25,619 --> 01:02:28,440 Terras, a professor of psychology at Columbia University. 860 01:02:28,900 --> 01:02:32,320 For several years, Dr. Terras was in charge of an experiment where 861 01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:35,940 he and several other human beings tried to teach a chimpanzee 862 01:02:35,940 --> 01:02:39,980 named Nim, the sign language of the deaf, but now in a book just 863 01:02:39,980 --> 01:02:43,340 published, which is called Nim, you're saying, Dr. Terras, that 864 01:02:43,340 --> 01:02:47,300 these experiments don't prove as much as you had originally thought they did? 865 01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,320 I changed my mind about the data. 866 01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:56,500 ♪ 867 01:02:56,550 --> 01:03:00,110 I suddenly saw what the key to this was. 868 01:03:01,930 --> 01:03:03,090 Nim was a brilliant beggar. 869 01:03:04,930 --> 01:03:10,690 He learned how to beg, and he could work his teachers and 870 01:03:10,690 --> 01:03:14,269 always get what he wanted by moving his hands in different ways. 871 01:03:14,890 --> 01:03:17,550 And most of the time, he moved his hands in the ways that 872 01:03:17,550 --> 01:03:22,410 the teacher suggested, and the motive of his signing was 873 01:03:22,410 --> 01:03:27,410 not to say, What a nice cat you have over there, but I want it. 874 01:03:28,490 --> 01:03:31,510 When the experiments were over, you returned Nim to the 875 01:03:31,510 --> 01:03:34,230 primate colony where he was born, and a year after that, 876 01:03:34,310 --> 01:03:36,850 you went back for a visit, and we came along with a camera. 877 01:03:38,230 --> 01:03:40,330 You and he are talking in sign language here, right? 878 01:03:40,330 --> 01:03:42,490 Right. And here we have it in slow motion. 879 01:03:42,550 --> 01:03:43,550 What's Nim saying? 880 01:03:44,289 --> 01:03:46,990 He's saying, Give Nim banana. 881 01:03:48,410 --> 01:03:51,830 Why is it that you're saying that he can't speak like a human being? 882 01:03:51,830 --> 01:03:55,590 Well, a string of signs is not necessarily a sentence. 883 01:03:57,370 --> 01:04:01,390 You can learn a list of words by rote, and that 884 01:04:01,390 --> 01:04:02,950 says nothing about your ability to use a grammar. 885 01:04:03,510 --> 01:04:06,530 Aren't you very disappointed that you spent all this time and all this money? 886 01:04:07,210 --> 01:04:10,050 Well, it would have been very electrifying news, almost like 887 01:04:10,050 --> 01:04:12,470 communicating with a creature from out of space if I could 888 01:04:12,869 --> 01:04:17,650 show that another organism could use language the way humans have. 889 01:04:17,789 --> 01:04:19,030 -But it didn't work. -It didn't work. 890 01:04:19,269 --> 01:04:20,530 Thank you very much, Dr. Terrison. 891 01:04:21,090 --> 01:04:23,170 I hope somebody can still talk to Nim and Annie. 892 01:04:38,849 --> 01:04:40,730 I didn't care about the language 893 01:04:40,730 --> 01:04:42,849 argument after a while, it didn't matter to me. 894 01:04:44,900 --> 01:04:48,599 He might not have had sentences or grammar, but there's no 895 01:04:48,599 --> 01:04:51,720 question that there was communication going on, and I saw it clearly. 896 01:04:59,699 --> 01:05:02,759 He talked about the trees, the berries that he found. 897 01:05:07,699 --> 01:05:09,279 He liked to play. 898 01:05:09,639 --> 01:05:10,899 Favorite song, play. 899 01:05:16,900 --> 01:05:18,920 Ha, ha, ha, ha! 900 01:05:20,900 --> 01:05:23,320 Holy shit, he doesn't know which one to grab. 901 01:05:26,449 --> 01:05:29,189 He knew what pop was, or hash, or whatever. 902 01:05:32,050 --> 01:05:35,090 And, uh, he wanted to smoke a joint. 903 01:05:38,759 --> 01:05:39,759 stone, 904 01:05:41,359 --> 01:05:42,359 smoke. 905 01:05:43,219 --> 01:05:44,219 Now. 906 01:05:44,500 --> 01:05:47,480 When we went out on walks with Nim, Nim was one of us. 907 01:05:47,739 --> 01:05:49,460 If we smoked a joint, he smoked it with 908 01:05:49,460 --> 01:05:51,319 us, in a circle, and we handed it to him. 909 01:05:54,910 --> 01:05:56,210 Chimps are like us. 910 01:05:56,350 --> 01:05:58,230 They're hedonistic. They like to do pleasurable things. 911 01:05:58,350 --> 01:06:02,470 They like to, you know, they like to have fun and hell, who doesn't? 912 01:06:08,199 --> 01:06:11,419 And there's something in marijuana that... 913 01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:14,260 They weren't aggressive. 914 01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:18,039 You talk less, you do different things. 915 01:06:18,460 --> 01:06:19,460 You enjoy each other. 916 01:06:22,750 --> 01:06:28,050 Lily and Nim lived together in the pig barn. 917 01:06:30,699 --> 01:06:32,559 Both of them didn't have many chimp 918 01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:36,799 friends, and then they became friends. 919 01:06:37,500 --> 01:06:42,449 ♪ 920 01:06:42,449 --> 01:06:46,189 They were seen copulating and we think Nim 921 01:06:46,189 --> 01:06:48,389 might have been the father of Lily's baby. 922 01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:54,000 ♪ 923 01:06:54,250 --> 01:06:59,250 ♪ 924 01:07:02,500 --> 01:07:03,780 The best time of my life. 925 01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,480 I still say that I've never had such a good time 926 01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,539 except maybe at a Grateful Dead show Pretty close. 927 01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:13,219 I don't even know which one I actually being with Nim. 928 01:07:13,300 --> 01:07:16,019 I'd rather be with Nim than Jerry And that's for me. 929 01:07:16,099 --> 01:07:17,460 That's that's saying something 930 01:07:20,949 --> 01:07:22,689 -That's real? -Yeah, yeah, yeah. 931 01:07:22,989 --> 01:07:23,989 That's a banana? 932 01:07:26,199 --> 01:07:27,199 You want to eat the shit? 933 01:07:29,599 --> 01:07:30,599 That's a shoe. 934 01:07:30,619 --> 01:07:31,619 This is a bear shoe. 935 01:07:43,099 --> 01:07:46,420 And that's when Mahoney started showing up. 936 01:07:48,739 --> 01:07:52,860 He was standing around, looking at chimps and writing in his 937 01:07:52,860 --> 01:07:57,579 pad and whatever, and when someone, when I found out who he 938 01:07:57,579 --> 01:08:01,079 was, and I'm sure it didn't take long for me to figure it out, I was... 939 01:08:01,619 --> 01:08:04,460 Obviously, he was checking out the chimps for the lab. 940 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:09,039 LEMSIP is best known by its acronym,-I-P, which is 941 01:08:09,039 --> 01:08:13,559 Laboratory for Experimental Medicine and Surgery in Primates. 942 01:08:13,799 --> 01:08:17,559 He represented the devil to me. 943 01:08:17,739 --> 01:08:21,859 Most of the work that we did with the chimpanzees, for example, was 944 01:08:24,420 --> 01:08:29,539 testing various candidate vaccines for, 945 01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:34,000 like, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis C, HIV, AIDS. 946 01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:39,640 I think it's very difficult to fund the kinds of 947 01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:43,059 research that I happen to be very much interested in. 948 01:08:43,159 --> 01:08:46,239 It's been difficult to fund social research in general. 949 01:08:47,819 --> 01:08:52,180 We heard about Dr. Lemon's problems, which were financial. 950 01:08:54,559 --> 01:08:56,779 It was finally arranged that, yes, we 951 01:08:56,779 --> 01:08:59,279 would take a very large part of their colony. 952 01:09:02,449 --> 01:09:05,090 I thought Lemon was trying to scare the university. 953 01:09:05,769 --> 01:09:10,250 I thought they would go, Oh, gosh, you can't just hold a medical lab. 954 01:09:10,369 --> 01:09:11,369 We've got to do something. 955 01:09:11,569 --> 01:09:13,389 I thought the community would rise itself up. 956 01:09:13,849 --> 01:09:17,529 Bob and I tried so hard with public appeal for 957 01:09:17,529 --> 01:09:21,710 something for the chimps, and there was no response. 958 01:09:22,409 --> 01:09:25,869 And then shortly after that, the chimps were indeed sold. 959 01:09:26,500 --> 01:09:31,000 ♪ 960 01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,699 Of the chimps that are being sent off to the lab today, 961 01:09:37,039 --> 01:09:39,439 how many of them were subjects of the signing research? 962 01:09:40,239 --> 01:09:45,539 Only one was restricted to signing research. 963 01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:46,680 This is NIMM. 964 01:09:54,100 --> 01:09:57,079 As a chimp you've got no way of knowing what's happening to you. 965 01:09:57,140 --> 01:10:00,060 You're just suddenly cut off from seeing everything outside 966 01:10:02,980 --> 01:10:06,840 Suddenly after a day and a half of constant driving you 967 01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:09,340 you get out the other end and you're in another sort of room 968 01:10:27,149 --> 01:10:30,509 I wouldn't say they were jumping with joy 969 01:10:32,069 --> 01:10:33,849 to find themselves in a new place. 970 01:10:43,399 --> 01:10:48,179 Come on, come on, one more time, one more time. 971 01:10:57,050 --> 01:10:59,750 I took on the role of being the one who chose 972 01:11:00,850 --> 01:11:03,810 which animals would go into which types of study. 973 01:11:05,949 --> 01:11:07,710 And I hated it 974 01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:19,539 You want to go away with Spike? 975 01:11:19,579 --> 01:11:20,579 Tulip? 976 01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:26,100 These animals will be used on hepatitis vaccine safety tests. 977 01:11:26,659 --> 01:11:32,300 It is a federal law that before a new batch of vaccine can be 978 01:11:32,300 --> 01:11:36,680 released on the American market, it must be tested for chimpanzees. 979 01:11:37,440 --> 01:11:41,239 There's no way, in all honesty, there's no way you can 980 01:11:41,239 --> 01:11:45,560 carry out research on animals and for it to be humane. 981 01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:49,880 It can't be humane because you already put them in a cage. 982 01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:54,159 That was already the first step and from there on it's downhill. 983 01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:04,140 We realized that certain of the Oklahoma chimps 984 01:12:04,620 --> 01:12:08,699 could use sign language and were trying to sign with us. 985 01:12:09,079 --> 01:12:12,880 What we did was we wrote down on sheets of paper, which we 986 01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:17,260 posted all over the place on doors and walls and everywhere we 987 01:12:17,260 --> 01:12:22,460 could find, of certain signs and it was hoped that as time went 988 01:12:22,460 --> 01:12:27,800 by, everyone would pick up at least a certain amount of sign language. 989 01:12:33,630 --> 01:12:38,510 I didn't see Nim as special 990 01:12:38,510 --> 01:12:40,350 above anyone else in the 991 01:12:40,350 --> 01:12:44,050 group because they were all going through the same thing. 992 01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:57,000 ♪ 993 01:12:57,250 --> 01:12:59,500 ♪ 994 01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:05,000 ♪ 995 01:13:05,250 --> 01:13:10,250 ♪ 996 01:13:10,500 --> 01:13:13,500 ♪ 997 01:13:13,949 --> 01:13:19,010 I made a big, big stink about it in every way I could. 998 01:13:19,130 --> 01:13:20,130 I called the press. 999 01:13:20,529 --> 01:13:23,449 We bitched as much as we could. 1000 01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:29,000 ♪ 1001 01:13:29,250 --> 01:13:32,500 ♪ 1002 01:13:32,699 --> 01:13:37,139 The student, Bob Ingersoll, he used to hound me every 1003 01:13:37,139 --> 01:13:40,559 chance he got and I would start to get really annoyed. 1004 01:13:41,599 --> 01:13:45,939 And then it dawned on me that he was the only one who cared. 1005 01:13:48,420 --> 01:13:51,619 Nobody, nobody except the press helped us. 1006 01:13:51,779 --> 01:13:53,179 Is there anything that you would consider 1007 01:13:53,179 --> 01:13:55,619 doing to prevent what is going to happen to him? 1008 01:13:56,059 --> 01:14:01,859 Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do because legally Nim is not mine. 1009 01:14:01,859 --> 01:14:05,559 Nim was loaned to me for the duration of my project. 1010 01:14:05,859 --> 01:14:07,720 That project ran out of funds. 1011 01:14:09,500 --> 01:14:14,000 ♪ 1012 01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:18,960 Somebody at the Boston Globe told me to read the front page story on that day. 1013 01:14:19,699 --> 01:14:23,600 He said, I think you'd be interested and I know you take unusual cases. 1014 01:14:26,350 --> 01:14:29,950 As a human being, I thought it was a kind of esoteric, 1015 01:14:30,210 --> 01:14:32,890 unique form of animal cruelty, all the worse for that. 1016 01:14:33,270 --> 01:14:36,230 And as a lawyer, I thought it was just plain illegal. 1017 01:14:36,730 --> 01:14:40,390 If the facts are, as I'm being told, that this young chimp was 1018 01:14:40,390 --> 01:14:45,390 brought up from infancy in a human family, you can't stick him into a 1019 01:14:45,390 --> 01:14:49,150 little cage in some horrible medical lab and use him for medical experiments. 1020 01:14:49,570 --> 01:14:50,990 It's per se animal cruelty. 1021 01:14:52,789 --> 01:14:54,730 Early on, I decided this. 1022 01:14:55,690 --> 01:15:00,110 If this animal has been deliberately brought up from 1023 01:15:00,530 --> 01:15:04,490 infanthood to think of himself as human, then if I'm 1024 01:15:04,490 --> 01:15:07,550 going to represent him, I have to treat him like a human client. 1025 01:15:08,570 --> 01:15:09,670 Give him his day in court. 1026 01:15:12,429 --> 01:15:16,670 Henry and I, Mr. Herman, were in communication pretty much every day. 1027 01:15:18,630 --> 01:15:20,829 He used a really cool strategy, actually. 1028 01:15:20,970 --> 01:15:23,569 He said, hey, this chimp can speak for himself. 1029 01:15:23,829 --> 01:15:25,229 Let's bring him into court and let him talk. 1030 01:15:25,529 --> 01:15:30,609 What I had ready as a trial exhibit was a steel cage and a 1031 01:15:30,609 --> 01:15:33,649 couple of strong guys with a pole ready to carry it into court, 1032 01:15:33,929 --> 01:15:37,590 and I was gonna get Nim to go into a frenzy and signal out, out, out. 1033 01:15:38,210 --> 01:15:41,949 And I believe the judge said something to the effect 1034 01:15:41,949 --> 01:15:44,529 that I'm not letting a fucking chimpanzee come in here 1035 01:15:44,529 --> 01:15:48,389 and make a mockery of my courtroom or something to that effect. 1036 01:15:48,470 --> 01:15:49,970 And that's when I said I'm gonna bring in 1037 01:15:49,970 --> 01:15:52,590 effect a habeas corpus petition on behalf of Chimp. 1038 01:15:52,750 --> 01:15:53,750 Bring him to court. 1039 01:15:58,100 --> 01:16:01,480 Our opponents were pig-headed, but they weren't stupid. 1040 01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:05,720 They realized that win, lose, or draw, once I got into 1041 01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:08,360 court, they'd be losing, because even if the judge 1042 01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:11,400 refused to hear them, the media attention would have been devastated. 1043 01:16:12,980 --> 01:16:16,360 And the dean of the medical faculty said, That's it. 1044 01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:17,820 Get that chimp out of here. 1045 01:16:24,659 --> 01:16:28,439 Before anything could happen, swooping down 1046 01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:34,099 like in some Wagnerian drama, comes Cleveland Amory. 1047 01:16:38,500 --> 01:16:43,020 I want this to be a place where those animals that have 1048 01:16:43,020 --> 01:16:47,279 been abused, that have been misused, will finally and 1049 01:16:47,740 --> 01:16:51,880 forever have a place that they never will have to fear again. 1050 01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:58,900 Mr. Amory had, up until then, perhaps a well-deserved 1051 01:16:58,900 --> 01:17:01,380 reputation for doing important work for animal rights. 1052 01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:06,680 And he just went and buys the chimp, takes him to his black 1053 01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:10,880 horse ranch, or whatever it was called, and says, I am saving Nim. 1054 01:17:11,480 --> 01:17:13,500 Lead Len Amory to the rescue again. 1055 01:17:13,940 --> 01:17:16,900 Nim will live here for the rest of his natural life. 1056 01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:23,380 Here my story ends, my troubles are over, and I am at home. 1057 01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:26,960 And that's what it says as you drive into Black Beauty Ranch. 1058 01:17:28,979 --> 01:17:31,479 He was the only animal we ever bought, and we didn't 1059 01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:34,699 know a thing about chimpanzees, but we just thought it 1060 01:17:34,699 --> 01:17:37,539 was better, what we could do was better than where he was. 1061 01:17:39,949 --> 01:17:43,210 It was never meant to be a home for caged animals. 1062 01:17:45,010 --> 01:17:48,670 It is really a home for abused and abandoned equine animals. 1063 01:17:48,989 --> 01:17:50,189 That's animals just with hooves. 1064 01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:55,500 ♪ 1065 01:17:55,550 --> 01:17:59,310 We were aghast that he would just pick up this chimp, 1066 01:17:59,989 --> 01:18:02,310 transport him to a horse ranch somewhere in the middle of 1067 01:18:02,310 --> 01:18:06,750 nowhere, and there was nobody there who knew how to take care of a chimp. 1068 01:18:09,399 --> 01:18:12,599 We brought him to Black Beauty and built a house for him. 1069 01:18:14,989 --> 01:18:18,269 It was a big kind of a square place and it had a 1070 01:18:18,269 --> 01:18:20,449 porch outside so that he could go outside and he 1071 01:18:20,449 --> 01:18:22,989 had all sorts of toys to play with, but it was solitary. 1072 01:18:35,310 --> 01:18:38,130 Chimps are social animals, and you can't just put 1073 01:18:38,130 --> 01:18:41,649 one chimp in a box and expect everything to be cool. 1074 01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:49,500 ♪ 1075 01:18:49,750 --> 01:18:52,710 Some of the time was sitting like this in the 1076 01:18:52,710 --> 01:18:55,489 corner and you just thought what is he thinking? 1077 01:18:55,529 --> 01:18:56,529 What is he missing? 1078 01:18:56,529 --> 01:18:58,250 What can we do? Will you please be sure 1079 01:18:58,250 --> 01:19:00,170 to stop off here in the nation's capital? 1080 01:19:01,069 --> 01:19:04,829 We had a TV down and then he broke that and then we put one 1081 01:19:04,829 --> 01:19:09,529 up in the ceiling and he found a way to get there Well, 1082 01:19:09,609 --> 01:19:12,010 okay, you don't get a television if that's gonna be your attitude 1083 01:19:15,449 --> 01:19:17,929 I wrote letters to Cleveland, bitching at him 1084 01:19:17,929 --> 01:19:22,510 about how leaving Nim there alone was virtually torture. 1085 01:19:32,399 --> 01:19:34,220 Not only did they not care what I thought, 1086 01:19:34,699 --> 01:19:37,420 they wanted me as far away from them as possible. 1087 01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:40,359 And they wanted to make that pretty clear. 1088 01:19:41,020 --> 01:19:42,340 And they did make that pretty clear. 1089 01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:44,460 You know, if you come here, you'll be arrested. 1090 01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:56,500 ♪ 1091 01:19:59,980 --> 01:20:03,220 I felt it, you know, and I just 1092 01:20:03,220 --> 01:20:06,620 wanted to, like, I don't know, I... 1093 01:20:08,500 --> 01:20:13,500 ♪ 1094 01:20:13,750 --> 01:20:18,750 ♪ 1095 01:20:21,449 --> 01:20:23,389 He got out a number of times. 1096 01:20:25,029 --> 01:20:27,569 What he wanted to do was go in the ranch house. 1097 01:20:28,869 --> 01:20:32,069 Be in the ranch house, be with people, sleep in a bed. 1098 01:20:33,229 --> 01:20:35,029 We had a bed for him in his house. 1099 01:20:35,109 --> 01:20:36,630 We never slept in the bed in his house. 1100 01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:41,420 One time when he came in the house, there was a 1101 01:20:41,420 --> 01:20:43,539 little white poodle thing and just barked and 1102 01:20:43,539 --> 01:20:46,779 barked and barked at this Chimpanzee coming through the door. 1103 01:20:47,140 --> 01:20:51,119 He just picked it up and swung up against the wall He meant to shut the dog up. 1104 01:20:51,460 --> 01:20:54,720 But of course he killed the dog There was another time when he went 1105 01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:56,579 in the house and he picked up a chair and threw it through the window 1106 01:20:59,500 --> 01:21:03,000 ♪ 1107 01:21:03,250 --> 01:21:05,909 This this is a very miserable chimpanzee, you know 1108 01:21:08,349 --> 01:21:10,189 He'd had such a checkered life and he'd 1109 01:21:10,189 --> 01:21:11,889 gone from here to here to here to here to here. 1110 01:21:13,590 --> 01:21:14,590 They should be left. 1111 01:21:14,609 --> 01:21:16,670 They should not be taken away from their mothers in the first place. 1112 01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:29,939 I knew that Nim was there. 1113 01:21:30,180 --> 01:21:32,720 I didn't know anything about the quality of his life there. 1114 01:21:32,979 --> 01:21:35,140 I heard good things and bad things and so on. 1115 01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:37,539 And I thought, why not go? 1116 01:21:40,100 --> 01:21:43,440 So we all flew out to Texas, we go to the 1117 01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:45,380 ranch, we meet the people taking care of him. 1118 01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:48,900 He was alone, he was the only chimp there. 1119 01:21:55,399 --> 01:21:58,099 I happened to be looking at him when Stephanie got out of 1120 01:21:58,099 --> 01:22:01,960 the car and he saw her and he recognized her right away and 1121 01:22:02,559 --> 01:22:07,359 The look on his face was just oh now you come now you come now. 1122 01:22:07,460 --> 01:22:09,059 I've been through all this and now you come 1123 01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:18,920 He definitely recognized us whether he was happy to see us. 1124 01:22:19,100 --> 01:22:20,100 I don't know 1125 01:22:22,750 --> 01:22:27,350 He wasn't particularly attractive to me now that he was an adult chimpanzee. 1126 01:22:27,409 --> 01:22:30,430 I didn't have a, oh, isn't he beautiful or anything like that. 1127 01:22:30,489 --> 01:22:33,069 He was, he was, I didn't know him. 1128 01:22:35,029 --> 01:22:40,010 My mother decides that she wants to go into the enclosure with 1129 01:22:40,010 --> 01:22:45,250 him, which didn't, which happened sort of, I'm going to go in with him. 1130 01:22:46,670 --> 01:22:49,470 We said to her, he doesn't look like he's going to 1131 01:22:49,470 --> 01:22:52,270 welcome you, so maybe you shouldn't go into his facility. 1132 01:22:53,750 --> 01:22:54,750 I was curious. 1133 01:22:54,890 --> 01:22:56,369 Is he going to sign? What's going to happen? 1134 01:22:56,489 --> 01:22:57,489 What's it going to be like? 1135 01:22:57,750 --> 01:22:59,430 Stephanie, please don't go in there. 1136 01:22:59,590 --> 01:23:01,010 He's not in a good mood. 1137 01:23:01,149 --> 01:23:03,470 You know, you can tell he's not in a good mood. 1138 01:23:06,149 --> 01:23:08,469 I opened the gate and walked in. 1139 01:23:09,269 --> 01:23:12,229 And then went up to the, like, first and a 1140 01:23:12,229 --> 01:23:14,549 half story, something like that, pretty high up. 1141 01:23:15,609 --> 01:23:18,170 And I realized how much danger I was in. 1142 01:23:22,699 --> 01:23:27,359 He came down, and then it was a blur. 1143 01:23:29,149 --> 01:23:32,189 Grabbed her by the ankle and he starts dragging her 1144 01:23:32,189 --> 01:23:34,689 running back and forth literally like a rag doll 1145 01:23:34,689 --> 01:23:36,929 just pulling her back forth I think he's gonna kill her. 1146 01:23:37,210 --> 01:23:39,049 He was gonna swing her against the wall and then swing her 1147 01:23:39,049 --> 01:23:41,750 against the wall again There was nothing loving about he was furious 1148 01:23:45,250 --> 01:23:47,090 I remember being in discussions about 1149 01:23:47,090 --> 01:23:49,729 getting the gun or not getting the gun, yeah. 1150 01:23:50,890 --> 01:23:51,930 So they got a gun. 1151 01:23:57,500 --> 01:23:59,380 No, he's not gonna kill her. 1152 01:23:59,500 --> 01:24:01,140 He's just really pissed off 1153 01:24:03,319 --> 01:24:07,079 Things dissipate and he sort of wandered off and I was able to 1154 01:24:07,079 --> 01:24:10,340 get out of door I have no idea how long the whole thing lasted 1155 01:24:11,819 --> 01:24:16,939 The fact that he didn't kill her meant a lot because he could 1156 01:24:16,939 --> 01:24:20,619 have And he would have been dead because they would have shot him 1157 01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:24,500 ♪ 1158 01:24:24,550 --> 01:24:29,310 I had abandoned him and he had managed to grow up 1159 01:24:29,310 --> 01:24:33,210 and I had walked back in as if I had not abandoned him. 1160 01:24:33,869 --> 01:24:37,810 And he said, no, this is my space, I'm going to 1161 01:24:37,810 --> 01:24:40,829 put you in your place, but I'm not going to hurt you. 1162 01:24:49,199 --> 01:24:53,380 We had done so much damage, removing him 1163 01:24:53,380 --> 01:24:56,159 from what his life should have been. 1164 01:24:56,619 --> 01:25:01,359 We exploited his human-like nature without regard to his chimpanzee nature. 1165 01:25:02,300 --> 01:25:04,679 We were co-opting him right from the beginning. 1166 01:25:05,639 --> 01:25:06,760 It was wrong. 1167 01:25:40,949 --> 01:25:44,069 About a year after Nim was sold to the fund they 1168 01:25:44,069 --> 01:25:47,510 purchased a female chimpanzee to be with him Around 1169 01:25:47,510 --> 01:25:50,769 ten years after that I heard she was in failing health. 1170 01:25:50,989 --> 01:25:55,569 I was worried that Nim was gonna be on his own again That same 1171 01:25:55,569 --> 01:25:58,489 time I was told that a new guy had taken over the ranch and his 1172 01:25:58,489 --> 01:26:02,550 name was Chris Byrne And so I approached Chris about visiting Nim 1173 01:26:08,699 --> 01:26:12,739 And once I met Chris, I was really, really 1174 01:26:12,739 --> 01:26:15,199 reassured that things were going to be much better for Nim. 1175 01:26:16,380 --> 01:26:17,380 Look, Nim. 1176 01:26:17,579 --> 01:26:18,579 Somebody's come to see you. 1177 01:26:19,220 --> 01:26:20,479 Oh, he's got his tackles up. 1178 01:26:22,939 --> 01:26:24,119 -Hey, it's okay. -Hi, Nam. 1179 01:26:24,199 --> 01:26:25,199 What's up, bud? 1180 01:26:25,399 --> 01:26:27,460 Nam. He's gonna do a couple of minutes of this for you. 1181 01:26:27,519 --> 01:26:28,519 Oh, that's okay. 1182 01:26:28,680 --> 01:26:29,680 Nam! 1183 01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:30,680 What's up, bud? 1184 01:26:34,399 --> 01:26:35,399 Yeah, I know, buddy. 1185 01:26:35,420 --> 01:26:36,420 Who am I? 1186 01:26:36,420 --> 01:26:37,420 Who am I? 1187 01:26:37,599 --> 01:26:38,599 Hey, who are you? 1188 01:26:42,500 --> 01:26:43,579 Play, play. 1189 01:27:00,050 --> 01:27:01,050 Oh, damn it. 1190 01:27:12,050 --> 01:27:16,850 I said to Chris, I have a way to help you and I know I 1191 01:27:16,850 --> 01:27:20,810 can help you to get out of the chimps So let's work together 1192 01:27:24,950 --> 01:27:25,950 Things are improving. 1193 01:27:26,170 --> 01:27:27,409 Things are way improving. 1194 01:27:28,750 --> 01:27:30,050 It's taken a while, though. 1195 01:27:30,449 --> 01:27:31,489 It's taken a long time. 1196 01:27:32,150 --> 01:27:33,150 I've had many easy moments. 1197 01:27:34,250 --> 01:27:39,869 On August the 10th, 1995, the dean of NYU Medical 1198 01:27:39,869 --> 01:27:42,890 Center announced that the Clemson would be closed. 1199 01:27:44,409 --> 01:27:47,750 And I thought, I'm gonna try and save as many of 1200 01:27:47,750 --> 01:27:52,890 the chimps as I can, but in a very quiet way, secretly. 1201 01:27:54,289 --> 01:27:55,289 Hey, Lulu. 1202 01:27:55,369 --> 01:27:56,369 What's up, girl? 1203 01:27:56,369 --> 01:27:57,369 How you doing? 1204 01:27:57,489 --> 01:28:00,980 That's where Bob came in through the secret network. 1205 01:28:01,650 --> 01:28:02,650 What's up, Nim? 1206 01:28:02,909 --> 01:28:04,070 Who is this over here? 1207 01:28:04,750 --> 01:28:06,130 Who is this over here, Nim? 1208 01:28:06,210 --> 01:28:07,210 Who is it? 1209 01:28:07,789 --> 01:28:09,470 This is gonna be your new roommate. 1210 01:28:13,149 --> 01:28:14,149 I love you. 1211 01:28:15,899 --> 01:28:17,379 so I can get you down to work. 1212 01:28:21,289 --> 01:28:22,289 Okay, we'll do it. 1213 01:28:28,550 --> 01:28:29,829 How do you think, Midge? 1214 01:28:30,110 --> 01:28:32,190 I told you it would be nice, didn't I? 1215 01:28:32,510 --> 01:28:36,610 Jim Mahoney moved literally 50, 60 chimps. 1216 01:28:38,090 --> 01:28:42,029 And we did indeed get two chimps from 1217 01:28:42,029 --> 01:28:44,789 Lemsep through Mahoney to Black Beauty Ranch. 1218 01:28:45,930 --> 01:28:49,449 Midge was a youngish adult male 1219 01:28:50,409 --> 01:28:53,570 and Lulu was very gentle. 1220 01:28:57,500 --> 01:29:02,020 Lulu immediately went to her defense, and Nim came over. 1221 01:29:03,319 --> 01:29:04,800 Very good, Lulu. 1222 01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:06,000 She's so good. 1223 01:29:06,380 --> 01:29:07,399 Yeah, you're a friend, Lulu. 1224 01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:11,220 I think Mitch and Lulu really helped him out enormously. 1225 01:29:16,300 --> 01:29:18,100 -What? -Now you're making noises for it. 1226 01:29:18,300 --> 01:29:19,380 What's the name of this? 1227 01:29:19,420 --> 01:29:20,420 Hey, I'm Nims. 1228 01:29:20,579 --> 01:29:21,940 -Nims what? -What? -Soda pop? 1229 01:29:22,079 --> 01:29:25,560 I'm not... Things were as good as could be expected 1230 01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:29,820 based on everything you know that had gone on previous. 1231 01:29:29,980 --> 01:29:31,520 Oh, yeah, that's so good, Nim. 1232 01:29:31,579 --> 01:29:32,579 Isn't it good? 1233 01:29:32,579 --> 01:29:37,500 It wasn't exactly perfect, but it was pretty damn good. 1234 01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:45,000 ♪ 1235 01:29:45,250 --> 01:29:49,500 ♪ 1236 01:29:52,100 --> 01:29:55,060 Chimps are truly wonderful animals, 1237 01:29:57,100 --> 01:29:59,660 they're very forgiving the vast majority of them. 1238 01:30:00,500 --> 01:30:03,500 ♪ 1239 01:30:05,260 --> 01:30:06,260 they'll forgive you. 1240 01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:17,000 ♪ 1241 01:30:17,250 --> 01:30:22,250 ♪ 1242 01:30:22,500 --> 01:30:27,500 ♪ 1243 01:30:27,750 --> 01:30:32,750 ♪ 1244 01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:38,000 ♪ 1245 01:30:38,250 --> 01:30:43,250 ♪ 1246 01:30:43,500 --> 01:30:48,000 ♪ 1247 01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:56,000 ♪ 1248 01:30:56,250 --> 01:31:01,250 ♪ 1249 01:31:01,500 --> 01:31:06,500 ♪ 1250 01:31:06,750 --> 01:31:11,750 ♪ 1251 01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:16,500 ♪ 1252 01:31:17,500 --> 01:31:22,000 ♪ 1253 01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:28,000 ♪ 1254 01:31:28,250 --> 01:31:33,250 ♪ 1255 01:31:33,500 --> 01:31:38,500 ♪ 1256 01:31:38,750 --> 01:31:43,750 ♪ 1257 01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:49,000 ♪ 1258 01:31:49,250 --> 01:31:54,250 ♪ 1259 01:31:54,500 --> 01:31:59,500 ♪ 1260 01:31:59,750 --> 01:32:04,750 ♪ 1261 01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:10,000 ♪ 1262 01:32:10,250 --> 01:32:15,250 ♪ 1263 01:32:15,500 --> 01:32:20,500 ♪ 1264 01:32:20,750 --> 01:32:25,750 ♪ 1265 01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:31,000 ♪ 1266 01:32:31,250 --> 01:32:36,250 ♪ 1267 01:32:36,500 --> 01:32:41,500 ♪ 1268 01:32:41,750 --> 01:32:46,750 ♪ 1269 01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:52,000 ♪ 1270 01:32:52,250 --> 01:32:57,250 ♪ 1271 01:32:57,500 --> 01:33:02,500 ♪ 1272 01:33:02,750 --> 01:33:07,750 ♪ 1273 01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:13,000 ♪ 1274 01:33:13,250 --> 01:33:18,250 ♪ 1275 01:33:18,500 --> 01:33:23,500 ♪ 1276 01:33:23,750 --> 01:33:28,750 ♪ 1277 01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:32,500 ♪ 1278 01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:38,000 ♪ 1279 01:33:38,250 --> 01:33:43,250 ♪ 1280 01:33:43,500 --> 01:33:48,500 ♪ 1281 01:33:48,750 --> 01:33:53,750 ♪ 1282 01:33:54,000 --> 01:33:59,000 ♪ 1283 01:33:59,250 --> 01:34:04,250 ♪ 1284 01:34:04,500 --> 01:34:09,500 ♪ 1285 01:34:09,750 --> 01:34:14,750 ♪ 1286 01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:20,000 ♪ 1287 01:34:20,250 --> 01:34:25,250 ♪ 1288 01:34:25,500 --> 01:34:30,500 ♪ 1289 01:34:30,750 --> 01:34:35,750 ♪ 1290 01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:41,000 ♪ 1291 01:34:41,250 --> 01:34:46,250 ♪ 1292 01:34:46,500 --> 01:34:51,500 ♪ 1293 01:34:51,750 --> 01:34:56,750 ♪ 1294 01:34:57,000 --> 01:35:02,000 ♪ 1295 01:35:02,250 --> 01:35:07,250 ♪ 1296 01:35:07,500 --> 01:35:12,500 ♪ 1297 01:35:12,750 --> 01:35:17,750 ♪ 1298 01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:23,000 ♪ 1299 01:35:23,250 --> 01:35:28,250 ♪ 1300 01:35:28,500 --> 01:35:31,500 ♪ 97166

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