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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 3 00:01:59,119 --> 00:02:00,859 We all tell stories. 4 00:02:02,165 --> 00:02:04,472 Our own stories, stories about others. 5 00:02:06,604 --> 00:02:09,999 Some stories become part of our official history 6 00:02:10,130 --> 00:02:13,611 and can change the way we look at the world. 7 00:02:13,742 --> 00:02:17,615 Some stories can change the way we look at ourselves. 8 00:02:45,426 --> 00:02:47,471 I've been telling other people's stories 9 00:02:47,602 --> 00:02:49,560 for a couple of decades, 10 00:02:49,691 --> 00:02:51,214 which is just another way of saying 11 00:02:51,345 --> 00:02:53,173 that I'm a journalist. 12 00:02:58,134 --> 00:03:00,049 Telling Ismael's story 13 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:03,313 had been one of my career highlights. 14 00:03:03,444 --> 00:03:06,882 I thought it was one of the easiest stories to tell. 15 00:03:07,012 --> 00:03:09,711 It turned out to be one of the hardest. 16 00:04:08,248 --> 00:04:10,511 Michelle: When Ismael was 13-years-old, 17 00:04:10,641 --> 00:04:13,470 a group that called itself the Islamic Courts Union 18 00:04:13,601 --> 00:04:15,516 seized control of Mogadishu. 19 00:04:17,039 --> 00:04:19,650 That sent shock waves throughout the West 20 00:04:19,781 --> 00:04:21,739 and dire warnings that this group 21 00:04:21,870 --> 00:04:23,306 was the African Taliban. 22 00:04:26,353 --> 00:04:27,832 In Somalia though, 23 00:04:27,963 --> 00:04:30,574 there was some cautious optimism. 24 00:04:30,705 --> 00:04:33,925 The group definitely had some radical members. 25 00:04:34,056 --> 00:04:36,841 But they also had moderate politicians. 26 00:04:36,972 --> 00:04:38,669 And most importantly, 27 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,716 they managed to take power away from corrupt warlords. 28 00:04:43,021 --> 00:04:45,415 They brought a semblance of peace. 29 00:04:51,726 --> 00:04:54,903 But, that stability didn't last long. 30 00:04:55,033 --> 00:04:57,601 After less than a year in control, 31 00:04:57,732 --> 00:05:01,431 Ethiopian troops backed by the US invaded Somalia 32 00:05:01,562 --> 00:05:04,304 to push out the Islamic Courts Union. 33 00:05:04,434 --> 00:05:08,177 Then came two devastating years of war. 34 00:05:08,308 --> 00:05:10,614 And during that conflict, 35 00:05:10,745 --> 00:05:12,007 a group called Al Shabaab, 36 00:05:12,137 --> 00:05:14,618 gained tremendous power. 37 00:05:14,749 --> 00:05:16,272 Once the war ended 38 00:05:16,403 --> 00:05:19,362 and Ethiopia was pushed back across the border, 39 00:05:19,493 --> 00:05:22,496 Al Shabaab was there to stay. 40 00:05:22,626 --> 00:05:26,151 And over the years they evolved into a terrorist group 41 00:05:26,282 --> 00:05:29,546 forcing countless child soldiers into their ranks. 42 00:05:30,939 --> 00:05:33,768 By the time Ismael was 16-years-old, 43 00:05:33,898 --> 00:05:37,206 Al Shabaab had officially joined forces with Al Qaeda. 44 00:08:10,751 --> 00:08:12,230 Michelle: Holding you down. 45 00:08:33,208 --> 00:08:34,383 Yeah. 46 00:08:54,229 --> 00:08:55,839 She never tells you how she feels. 47 00:09:02,803 --> 00:09:04,892 I never get emotional talking this, 48 00:10:30,978 --> 00:10:32,457 Michelle: I first met Ismael 49 00:10:32,588 --> 00:10:34,634 on a reporting trip to Mogadishu. 50 00:10:37,071 --> 00:10:38,986 Somalia had always been 51 00:10:39,116 --> 00:10:41,379 one of my favourite countries to cover. 52 00:10:43,773 --> 00:10:46,820 It's a fascinating, resilient place, 53 00:10:46,950 --> 00:10:50,214 although so often horribly frustrating and tragic. 54 00:10:55,089 --> 00:10:56,438 As a national security correspondent 55 00:10:56,568 --> 00:10:58,135 for the Toronto Star, 56 00:10:58,266 --> 00:11:00,616 my beat was to cover the conflict. 57 00:11:00,747 --> 00:11:03,401 But I tried to highlight the positive too. 58 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,289 Over the years, 59 00:11:21,419 --> 00:11:23,508 many of the contacts I made professionally 60 00:11:23,639 --> 00:11:25,902 became good friends. 61 00:11:26,033 --> 00:11:28,600 I think that often happens in risky places 62 00:11:28,731 --> 00:11:30,428 where the stakes are so high. 63 00:11:32,387 --> 00:11:34,041 Sahal Abdulle, 64 00:11:34,171 --> 00:11:36,565 a Canadian and former photo journalist with Reuters, 65 00:11:36,696 --> 00:11:38,785 is one of those close friends. 66 00:11:38,915 --> 00:11:41,265 During the war with Ethiopia, 67 00:11:41,396 --> 00:11:43,441 he barely survived a car bombing. 68 00:11:44,747 --> 00:11:47,750 That bombing did kill Ali Sharmake, 69 00:11:47,881 --> 00:11:49,752 another Somali Canadian journalist 70 00:11:49,883 --> 00:11:51,536 and a friend of ours. 71 00:11:51,667 --> 00:11:53,364 Sahal: We, as a journalist, 72 00:11:53,495 --> 00:11:55,584 we report so we can make a difference. 73 00:11:57,020 --> 00:11:59,066 We are a journalist. 74 00:11:59,196 --> 00:12:01,068 We're supposed to be observer, not to be part of it. 75 00:12:01,198 --> 00:12:03,026 But it is... 76 00:12:03,157 --> 00:12:06,551 I mean when you talk about that it is... 77 00:12:06,682 --> 00:12:08,858 yes, at the end of the day you are a human being. 78 00:12:08,989 --> 00:12:12,340 So when you see kids being ripped apart. 79 00:12:13,471 --> 00:12:14,603 Person missing, 80 00:12:14,734 --> 00:12:17,693 elderly lady missing a leg or hand. 81 00:12:17,824 --> 00:12:19,739 It will, it will affect you. 82 00:12:21,610 --> 00:12:23,568 You don't, you think, okay, you make a difference, 83 00:12:23,699 --> 00:12:25,745 you might stop this. 84 00:12:25,875 --> 00:12:28,530 And things still continue. 85 00:12:28,660 --> 00:12:30,880 And you go like: what's the point? 86 00:12:35,232 --> 00:12:37,452 Michelle: No matter how many times I went to Somalia 87 00:12:37,582 --> 00:12:39,410 or the connections I made, 88 00:12:39,541 --> 00:12:42,500 there was always the unease of being an outsider. 89 00:12:43,937 --> 00:12:45,634 I understood my place. 90 00:12:45,765 --> 00:12:48,506 And I did feel what I was doing was important. 91 00:12:48,637 --> 00:12:51,858 But sometimes I just felt guilty too. 92 00:12:53,424 --> 00:12:55,905 Because I would come and go, taking stories with me. 93 00:12:56,036 --> 00:12:58,865 And if the stories didn't make a difference, 94 00:12:58,995 --> 00:13:02,085 what was the point of asking people to tell them. 95 00:13:02,216 --> 00:13:04,305 During a trip in 2010, 96 00:13:04,435 --> 00:13:06,220 a contact of mine told me 97 00:13:06,350 --> 00:13:08,962 there was someone I needed to meet. 98 00:13:09,092 --> 00:13:11,051 Do you remember when we first met? 99 00:13:47,174 --> 00:13:49,306 Michelle: And I remember when we took this, this picture, 100 00:13:51,613 --> 00:13:53,702 there were four boys that this happened to. 101 00:13:55,443 --> 00:13:57,053 But Ismael was the only one who was sort of willing 102 00:13:57,184 --> 00:13:58,925 and most eager to talk. 103 00:14:00,448 --> 00:14:02,232 And he sat down. I said I'll need to take a picture. 104 00:14:02,363 --> 00:14:04,017 And the escorts were yelling: 105 00:14:04,147 --> 00:14:06,323 It was time to go, time to go. 106 00:14:06,454 --> 00:14:07,890 And he just sat down 107 00:14:09,152 --> 00:14:11,589 and he took off his prosthetic leg 108 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,505 and he put his hand up. And he just struck this pose. 109 00:14:14,636 --> 00:14:16,812 And, I remember I started crying. 110 00:14:16,943 --> 00:14:18,596 I was trying to focus the camera. 111 00:14:20,729 --> 00:14:22,426 Because he just looked so young 112 00:14:22,557 --> 00:14:24,167 and it was so horrific what happened. 113 00:14:29,956 --> 00:14:32,219 And then as I was leaving, 114 00:14:32,349 --> 00:14:34,221 because everything in Mogadishu then happened so fast, 115 00:14:34,351 --> 00:14:37,006 and, you know, here I am in my flack jacket and my helmet 116 00:14:37,137 --> 00:14:39,922 and he's in, you know, sitting there on a couch. 117 00:14:40,053 --> 00:14:42,707 Probably after I leave I don't know where he's going. 118 00:14:42,838 --> 00:14:45,536 And as I left he was saying - 119 00:14:45,667 --> 00:14:47,364 begging me to take him to Canada. 120 00:14:47,495 --> 00:14:48,975 And he looked on my bag 121 00:14:49,105 --> 00:14:50,802 and there was a little Canadian pin. 122 00:14:50,933 --> 00:14:53,544 And um, so I, you know, took the-- 123 00:14:53,675 --> 00:14:55,285 I said: Do you want this? 124 00:14:55,416 --> 00:14:56,896 And so I gave him the pin 125 00:14:57,026 --> 00:14:58,810 and my last image of him was down on his - 126 00:14:58,941 --> 00:15:00,812 he dropped it and he was trying to find it. 127 00:15:00,943 --> 00:15:02,814 And I'll probably start crying telling this story now. Um... 128 00:15:06,122 --> 00:15:07,863 I guess I was getting cynical. 129 00:15:07,994 --> 00:15:10,387 But I really thought his story would be among those 130 00:15:10,518 --> 00:15:12,912 that were just told and forgotten. 131 00:15:13,042 --> 00:15:14,914 But, something unexpected happened. 132 00:15:16,176 --> 00:15:18,961 The story prompted action in Canada. 133 00:15:19,092 --> 00:15:21,572 Toronto's powerful Somali diaspora 134 00:15:21,703 --> 00:15:24,662 started a group they called Project Ismael, 135 00:15:24,793 --> 00:15:27,578 and they raised funds, spread his story 136 00:15:27,709 --> 00:15:29,145 and tried to get him help. 137 00:15:31,974 --> 00:15:34,803 Sahal made it his personal mission 138 00:15:34,934 --> 00:15:37,197 to get Ismael to safety. 139 00:15:49,731 --> 00:15:51,907 The little kid who went through this one. 140 00:15:52,038 --> 00:15:55,215 I said that's fine, I will try to help you, 141 00:15:57,130 --> 00:16:01,090 ah, to take you from this pain and ah, and what have you. 142 00:16:01,221 --> 00:16:03,353 And at that particular time, 143 00:16:04,746 --> 00:16:07,270 I don't know how, but in my mind I said 144 00:16:07,401 --> 00:16:11,535 this kid went through so, let's, let's help him 145 00:16:11,666 --> 00:16:12,884 regardless of what happened, 146 00:16:13,015 --> 00:16:15,235 who did it or what have you. 147 00:16:15,365 --> 00:16:17,454 I just saw this human being who needed help. 148 00:16:19,979 --> 00:16:21,981 I can't save Somalia, 149 00:16:22,111 --> 00:16:25,114 but I think I can try to save at least this kid. 150 00:16:27,334 --> 00:16:29,205 Michelle: And Sahal did rescue him. 151 00:16:29,336 --> 00:16:32,208 He managed to get Ismael out of Mogadishu to Nairobi, 152 00:16:32,339 --> 00:16:34,863 where he unofficially adopted him. 153 00:16:34,994 --> 00:16:37,779 Since Ismael had escaped Al Shabaab's custody, 154 00:16:37,909 --> 00:16:39,911 he was still at risk in Kenya 155 00:16:40,042 --> 00:16:41,826 where the group had a presence. 156 00:16:41,957 --> 00:16:43,654 But just a few months later, 157 00:16:43,785 --> 00:16:45,961 the United Nations accepted Ismael 158 00:16:46,092 --> 00:16:48,398 as a refugee in need of immediate help. 159 00:16:48,529 --> 00:16:50,313 And they quickly found him a home. 160 00:16:50,444 --> 00:16:54,143 Ismael was given refuge in Harstad, Norway, 161 00:16:54,274 --> 00:16:57,190 200 kilometres north of the Arctic Circle. 162 00:16:59,453 --> 00:17:01,542 That was 2011. 163 00:17:01,672 --> 00:17:04,371 And Ismael did what was expected of him. 164 00:17:04,501 --> 00:17:07,069 He went to high school, became fluent in Norwegian, 165 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,245 joined a local soccer team. 166 00:17:09,376 --> 00:17:11,247 And I kept telling his story, 167 00:17:11,378 --> 00:17:13,945 writing updates about how well he was doing. 168 00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:21,518 The next chapter in Ismael's story came in April 2018. 169 00:17:22,954 --> 00:17:24,913 That's when he got his Norwegian citizenship. 170 00:17:25,044 --> 00:17:27,568 I was really excited for him. 171 00:17:27,698 --> 00:17:29,396 He had been homesick 172 00:17:29,526 --> 00:17:31,876 and desperately wanted to visit family and friends 173 00:17:32,007 --> 00:17:33,965 back in Somalia. 174 00:17:34,096 --> 00:17:36,664 Once he had that Norwegian passport, 175 00:17:36,794 --> 00:17:39,145 he could return home for the first time 176 00:17:39,275 --> 00:17:41,712 since fleeing almost a decade earlier. 177 00:17:41,843 --> 00:17:43,453 And I would go with him 178 00:17:43,584 --> 00:17:45,586 to film, to keep telling his story. 179 00:17:49,851 --> 00:17:51,461 What's that? 180 00:17:55,639 --> 00:17:56,814 It's the national anthem or the-- 181 00:18:00,818 --> 00:18:02,124 Do you know it? 182 00:18:43,644 --> 00:18:45,472 Woman: Ishmael Khalif Abdulle. 183 00:19:12,716 --> 00:19:15,371 Michelle: I thought his passport would bring relief. 184 00:19:15,502 --> 00:19:18,287 He was a full-fledged Norwegian citizen 185 00:19:18,418 --> 00:19:20,507 with all the protections that brought. 186 00:19:20,637 --> 00:19:23,162 We could start planning his trip to Mogadishu now. 187 00:19:24,641 --> 00:19:26,556 But once I got back to Toronto, 188 00:19:26,687 --> 00:19:29,037 he started sending worrying texts. 189 00:20:40,935 --> 00:20:42,763 Ismael had agreed to come to Toronto 190 00:20:42,893 --> 00:20:44,721 following a terrible summer. 191 00:20:44,852 --> 00:20:47,028 After getting those texts, 192 00:20:47,158 --> 00:20:49,117 I had gone to see him in Norway, without the camera. 193 00:20:50,553 --> 00:20:52,642 He told me he had suffered as breakdown. 194 00:20:54,165 --> 00:20:55,645 He'd lost his apartment and had to get a new one. 195 00:20:55,776 --> 00:20:57,343 He stopped going to school. 196 00:20:59,258 --> 00:21:01,912 I thought maybe coming to Toronto would help. 197 00:21:02,043 --> 00:21:04,959 He had wanted to meet the members of Project Ismael. 198 00:21:05,089 --> 00:21:07,788 He said he'd always dreamed of Canada. 199 00:21:10,530 --> 00:21:12,140 And when we were together, 200 00:21:12,271 --> 00:21:14,969 we could figure out how to film his trip home. 201 00:21:15,099 --> 00:21:16,884 But I was starting to worry 202 00:21:17,014 --> 00:21:19,060 that I was pushing him too hard. 203 00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:22,411 Was this about him or the story or both? 204 00:21:23,804 --> 00:21:24,935 George: I'm very excited to have a great run, 205 00:21:25,066 --> 00:21:26,067 Michelle Shephard is on her way in. 206 00:21:26,197 --> 00:21:27,764 First let's set this up. 207 00:21:27,895 --> 00:21:29,723 On September 10th, 2001, 208 00:21:29,853 --> 00:21:31,638 Michelle Shephard was in Toronto 209 00:21:31,768 --> 00:21:33,596 reporting on a purse snatching for the Toronto Star. 210 00:21:33,727 --> 00:21:35,685 It seemed like an important story at the time. 211 00:21:35,816 --> 00:21:38,297 Next day, Michelle stood in Manhattan, 212 00:21:38,427 --> 00:21:40,821 September 11th, ground zero, 213 00:21:40,951 --> 00:21:42,866 breathing in dust from the fallen World Trade Center. 214 00:21:42,997 --> 00:21:44,651 She didn't know it then, but that moment 215 00:21:44,781 --> 00:21:46,261 was the beginning of a ten year journey, 216 00:21:46,392 --> 00:21:48,394 a journey she has written about in her book called 217 00:21:48,524 --> 00:21:50,221 "Decade of Fear." 218 00:21:50,352 --> 00:21:51,832 Please welcome Michele Shephard. 219 00:21:51,962 --> 00:21:53,486 - How are you? - Hi. 220 00:21:53,616 --> 00:21:55,357 - So nice to see you. - Nice to see you. Thanks. 221 00:21:55,488 --> 00:21:56,924 You can walk into a scenario 222 00:21:57,054 --> 00:21:58,317 and you can start to tell a story. 223 00:21:58,447 --> 00:22:00,014 But the more you tell a story the closer 224 00:22:00,144 --> 00:22:01,668 - you're going to get to it. - Yeah. 225 00:22:01,798 --> 00:22:03,147 And then you have to re-evaluate what your role is. 226 00:22:03,278 --> 00:22:04,888 What is your role now 227 00:22:05,019 --> 00:22:06,760 when you try to tell people these stories? 228 00:22:06,890 --> 00:22:09,110 I think I want to bring the parts of the world 229 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,678 that I don't think people understand home to them. 230 00:22:11,808 --> 00:22:14,289 So I'm so lucky that at the Star 231 00:22:14,420 --> 00:22:16,030 they've given me this really long leash 232 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:17,945 that I can travel the world. 233 00:22:18,075 --> 00:22:19,729 So people are not gonna be able to go to Somali, 234 00:22:19,860 --> 00:22:21,470 people are not gonna be able to go to Yemen, 235 00:22:21,601 --> 00:22:24,299 parts of Pakistan, Guantanamo Bay way too many times. 236 00:22:24,430 --> 00:22:26,736 So what I try and do is, is, you know, 237 00:22:26,867 --> 00:22:29,522 bring, bring the people who are there their stories. 238 00:22:29,652 --> 00:22:31,567 So that they're not just thought of as, you know, 239 00:22:31,698 --> 00:22:34,701 the other or um, a country that we don't understand. 240 00:22:34,831 --> 00:22:36,529 I try and bring that home. 241 00:22:36,659 --> 00:22:38,748 Can you do that and not get too close to a story? 242 00:22:38,879 --> 00:22:40,968 No. I mean you get too close. 243 00:22:41,098 --> 00:22:44,058 I think this idea of being of pure objectivity in journalism, 244 00:22:44,188 --> 00:22:46,452 it just doesn't exist. 245 00:22:46,582 --> 00:22:49,672 Um, I think you do your best to tell the story from all sides. 246 00:22:49,803 --> 00:22:51,848 But of course you get really close, yeah. 247 00:22:51,979 --> 00:22:53,459 There's a lot of stories that I've come close to. 248 00:22:59,639 --> 00:23:01,554 I'm really excited to go pick him up. 249 00:23:01,684 --> 00:23:04,034 It's just weird that I actually feel so nervous. 250 00:23:04,165 --> 00:23:05,906 I actually do feel nervous. I don't know why. 251 00:23:10,084 --> 00:23:11,302 I'm obviously excited, 252 00:23:11,433 --> 00:23:13,304 but I think because he's been through so much, 253 00:23:13,435 --> 00:23:16,177 ah, since we last filmed with him, 254 00:23:16,307 --> 00:23:19,006 which was in Norway 255 00:23:19,136 --> 00:23:22,183 when we did the citizenship ah, ceremony. 256 00:23:22,313 --> 00:23:25,316 And I just think he had such a crash after that 257 00:23:25,447 --> 00:23:27,449 and we were all so worried about him. 258 00:23:27,580 --> 00:23:29,756 And I guess, yeah, I just, I guess, I feel nervous, 259 00:23:29,886 --> 00:23:31,192 that I hope he's okay. 260 00:23:56,565 --> 00:23:59,089 Hey, Mama. Both: Good to see you. 261 00:24:00,482 --> 00:24:01,570 - How are you doing? - Good. How are you doing? 262 00:24:01,701 --> 00:24:03,180 - I'm doing-- - You must be so tired. 263 00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:09,926 They stopped you a hundred times? 264 00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:15,454 - At ah, where though? - Here. 265 00:24:15,584 --> 00:24:17,760 Like at the Customs here? Oh no. 266 00:24:23,244 --> 00:24:24,941 Did you say what-- Oh, I'm sure they loved that. 267 00:24:29,511 --> 00:24:31,339 Really? 268 00:24:35,822 --> 00:24:37,606 Seriously? The Custom agent looked at Google, 269 00:24:37,737 --> 00:24:39,826 like at the stories. Oh, that's ridiculous. 270 00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:46,310 God. 271 00:24:50,401 --> 00:24:52,273 Do you want to practice driving when you're here? 272 00:24:52,403 --> 00:24:54,275 - Really? - No. 273 00:24:56,712 --> 00:24:58,235 Yeah, I wish. 274 00:24:59,933 --> 00:25:01,543 All right. 275 00:25:03,284 --> 00:25:05,242 This is it. 276 00:25:10,944 --> 00:25:12,511 - Looks nice. - It's cute, eh? Yeah. 277 00:25:12,641 --> 00:25:14,295 It is cute. 278 00:25:17,603 --> 00:25:19,779 And it's cheaper than a hotel room. Go figure. 279 00:25:19,909 --> 00:25:21,607 Wow. 280 00:25:22,825 --> 00:25:25,393 It's very nice place. 281 00:25:26,742 --> 00:25:28,265 Look a TV. 282 00:25:31,573 --> 00:25:33,270 The phone. 283 00:25:38,275 --> 00:25:39,842 Man: All right, welcome to CN Tower. 284 00:25:39,973 --> 00:25:41,496 Bonjour, bienvenue à la Tour CN. 285 00:25:41,627 --> 00:25:44,064 La version française était sync. 286 00:25:44,194 --> 00:25:46,240 And we're heading up at 20 kilometres per hour. 287 00:25:46,370 --> 00:25:48,416 That's 15 miles per hour. 288 00:25:48,547 --> 00:25:50,549 It takes about 58 seconds to reach the lookout level. 289 00:25:50,679 --> 00:25:52,376 - Any questions? - Do you have any questions? 290 00:25:54,291 --> 00:25:56,772 - You can look down as well. - Oh shit. 291 00:25:56,903 --> 00:25:58,948 Man: Yeah. All: 292 00:25:59,079 --> 00:26:01,951 Michelle: It was fun filming in Toronto with Ismael. 293 00:26:02,082 --> 00:26:05,041 It felt like I was just showing a friend around my hometown. 294 00:26:06,477 --> 00:26:07,870 Man: Please watch yourself on the way out. 295 00:26:08,001 --> 00:26:09,742 - Oh. Yeah. - Yeah. 296 00:26:09,872 --> 00:26:11,178 Remember I said there was another airport. 297 00:26:11,308 --> 00:26:13,006 That's over here. 298 00:26:13,136 --> 00:26:15,965 He said he felt stronger and he definitely seemed it. 299 00:26:17,184 --> 00:26:19,273 But he was still uneasy 300 00:26:19,403 --> 00:26:21,231 whenever the camera came on. 301 00:26:21,362 --> 00:26:24,321 It seemed like he felt he had to perform for the film, 302 00:26:25,584 --> 00:26:27,629 to take on the role of Ismael 303 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,153 the always grateful refugee. 304 00:26:30,284 --> 00:26:32,416 The Toronto Star, I showed you over there, that's like there. 305 00:26:33,592 --> 00:26:35,376 Do you want to take any notes 306 00:26:35,506 --> 00:26:36,943 or anything this afternoon before we go? 307 00:26:46,561 --> 00:26:48,650 But, you know, you've had some tough times there too. 308 00:26:48,781 --> 00:26:50,304 - Absolutely, yeah. - Right? 309 00:26:50,434 --> 00:26:52,480 That's okay to say all that. Like just be completely honest 310 00:26:52,611 --> 00:26:54,787 because, you know, all of that is your story 311 00:26:54,917 --> 00:26:57,354 and all of that makes sense to people here. 312 00:26:57,485 --> 00:26:59,356 Yeah. I will. 313 00:26:59,487 --> 00:27:01,228 You know, because sometimes I think even the stories 314 00:27:01,358 --> 00:27:03,796 that, you know, I've done on you over the years 315 00:27:03,926 --> 00:27:06,625 for the newspaper, 316 00:27:06,755 --> 00:27:09,584 it's always like the happy refugee story, right? 317 00:27:09,715 --> 00:27:11,586 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 318 00:27:11,717 --> 00:27:14,502 Like look at him, he's doing so great in Harstad. 319 00:27:14,633 --> 00:27:16,504 You know, wow, this kid from Mogadishu is - 320 00:27:16,635 --> 00:27:19,202 and, and, you know, that's sort of - 321 00:27:19,333 --> 00:27:21,770 those are the kind of stories that people want to believe. 322 00:27:21,901 --> 00:27:23,946 But it's more complicated than that. 323 00:28:00,679 --> 00:28:02,245 And that's what happened to you. 324 00:28:31,971 --> 00:28:33,973 Hello, Mohamed. 325 00:28:35,278 --> 00:28:38,368 Who is this? Oh my God, oh my God, 326 00:28:38,499 --> 00:28:40,719 oh my God, oh my God... 327 00:28:52,992 --> 00:28:55,908 - I think it won't take you more than a few seconds 328 00:28:56,038 --> 00:28:59,389 to realize what a special, special man he is. 329 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,305 When I met him when everything that happened to him, 330 00:29:02,436 --> 00:29:05,134 he was just a teenager. 331 00:29:05,265 --> 00:29:07,136 I want him to tell his own story. 332 00:29:07,267 --> 00:29:09,138 He's a little bit nervous, even though he's, 333 00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:10,836 - he's told it... - I am nervous. 334 00:29:10,966 --> 00:29:13,621 many times before, very patiently to me many times. 335 00:29:13,752 --> 00:29:15,754 So please, please help me 336 00:29:15,884 --> 00:29:18,191 in giving him a warm introduction. 337 00:29:24,763 --> 00:29:26,765 Thank you. 338 00:29:30,464 --> 00:29:31,813 Thank you so much. 339 00:30:59,161 --> 00:31:00,597 Thank you very much. 340 00:31:11,391 --> 00:31:13,915 Michelle: That Toronto trip was the last time I saw Ismael 341 00:31:14,046 --> 00:31:16,352 before we returned to Somalia. 342 00:31:18,267 --> 00:31:19,660 The irony wasn't lost on me. 343 00:31:21,314 --> 00:31:24,012 The Toronto Star story was part, however small, 344 00:31:24,143 --> 00:31:27,798 of the reason he was able to escape Mogadishu. 345 00:31:27,929 --> 00:31:30,758 Now I was helping bring him back. 346 00:31:39,549 --> 00:31:42,422 - Hey, Sahal. - Yes. Hey Ismael. 347 00:31:42,552 --> 00:31:43,989 Hello... 348 00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:46,556 We should talk a little bit about Mogadishu. 349 00:31:46,687 --> 00:31:48,645 What's it going to be like when we get there, 350 00:31:48,776 --> 00:31:50,909 like the security concerns? 351 00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:53,737 Because I know Ismael was talking about going there 352 00:31:53,868 --> 00:31:56,566 for a long time. And you and I were talking, Sahal, 353 00:31:56,697 --> 00:31:59,961 earlier about maybe that's not smart right now. 354 00:32:00,092 --> 00:32:03,486 Like it's still, still not entirely safe in that way. 355 00:32:20,721 --> 00:32:23,637 So I wouldn't recommend him 356 00:32:23,767 --> 00:32:25,378 to stay on an extended visit. 357 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:27,989 So a quick visit to see the family 358 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,470 and not cross certain streets 359 00:32:31,775 --> 00:32:34,604 would be, I think, my advice. 360 00:32:34,735 --> 00:32:36,998 And ah, to make this short, 361 00:32:38,391 --> 00:32:40,959 maybe a week, maximum two weeks. 362 00:32:42,612 --> 00:32:45,702 Would he still be targeted because of who he is? 363 00:32:45,833 --> 00:32:48,879 Or is it just anybody right now? 364 00:33:00,282 --> 00:33:02,415 All right, we will see you in Mogadishu soon. 365 00:33:02,545 --> 00:33:05,070 - Thank you. - Okay. Sahal. A salaam. 366 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,854 - A salaam. Good night. - Bye. 367 00:33:08,203 --> 00:33:09,770 All right, thank you, bye bye. 368 00:33:09,900 --> 00:33:11,511 Bye bye. 369 00:33:17,125 --> 00:33:18,953 Michelle: He couldn't wait to return. 370 00:33:19,084 --> 00:33:21,216 But I was just nervous. 371 00:33:21,347 --> 00:33:23,218 Would he be triggered going back 372 00:33:23,349 --> 00:33:25,177 and have another breakdown? 373 00:33:25,307 --> 00:33:27,831 And how would he feel when he was there, 374 00:33:27,962 --> 00:33:30,356 having this white film crew follow him around? 375 00:33:31,922 --> 00:33:33,533 The ways in which I had become 376 00:33:33,663 --> 00:33:36,449 part of his life made me uneasy. 377 00:33:36,579 --> 00:33:39,321 It felt like I was breaking the rule 378 00:33:39,452 --> 00:33:41,932 we always try to keep in journalism: 379 00:33:42,063 --> 00:33:44,326 Don't become part of the story. 380 00:33:44,457 --> 00:33:46,937 Was I still helping him 381 00:33:47,068 --> 00:33:48,809 or was I just complicating his life? 382 00:33:56,599 --> 00:33:59,254 Just as we were in the final stages of planning our trip, 383 00:33:59,385 --> 00:34:01,996 violence spiked again in Mogadishu. 384 00:34:03,302 --> 00:34:05,391 Al Shabaab was still a serious threat. 385 00:34:23,322 --> 00:34:27,108 Yeah, I just wanted to, to get details for the trip 386 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,285 and talk a little bit about some safety concerns 387 00:34:30,416 --> 00:34:32,200 and things too. 388 00:34:32,331 --> 00:34:34,855 Because I don't know if you saw the last bombing they had was... 389 00:34:34,985 --> 00:34:37,075 - Yeah. - Sahal was, 390 00:34:37,205 --> 00:34:39,468 Sahal was pretty upset about it. It was close - 391 00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:41,775 kind of close to his house and he was there with his kids. 392 00:34:41,905 --> 00:34:44,386 And um, so He feels - 393 00:34:44,517 --> 00:34:46,475 I think he feels really nervous about you coming, 394 00:34:46,606 --> 00:34:48,651 so I want us to like talk through that 395 00:34:48,782 --> 00:34:50,349 and make sure you're okay with it 396 00:34:50,479 --> 00:34:52,829 and he's okay with it and all of that. 397 00:35:44,533 --> 00:35:47,319 Announcement: Ladies and Gentleman welcome to Mogadishu. 398 00:36:04,074 --> 00:36:05,685 Bye. Bye bye. 399 00:36:33,539 --> 00:36:36,803 Michelle: Mogadishu may not be the conflict zone it once was. 400 00:36:36,933 --> 00:36:40,415 But almost no foreigners stayed far from the airport compound, 401 00:36:40,546 --> 00:36:43,810 a type of green zone that Somalis call Container City. 402 00:36:43,940 --> 00:36:45,725 This is home sweet home, guys. 403 00:36:50,904 --> 00:36:53,167 Security is mandatory. 404 00:36:55,648 --> 00:36:57,345 As soon as we got there, 405 00:36:57,476 --> 00:37:00,348 everyone seemed on edge about Ismael's safety too. 406 00:37:02,220 --> 00:37:04,222 He was high profile, so that put him at risk. 407 00:37:05,484 --> 00:37:06,702 And he had embarrassed Al Shabaab 408 00:37:06,833 --> 00:37:08,791 by escaping their custody 409 00:37:08,922 --> 00:37:11,054 and telling the world his story. 410 00:37:11,185 --> 00:37:13,448 That made him a marked man. 411 00:37:15,189 --> 00:37:17,365 Al Shabaab still had a presence on the outskirts of the city 412 00:37:17,496 --> 00:37:19,498 and many spies within it. 413 00:37:26,592 --> 00:37:28,376 Attitude, you know. 414 00:37:28,507 --> 00:37:30,248 If I give attitude back it will be okay. 415 00:37:38,865 --> 00:37:40,083 What is that? What does that mean, 416 00:37:40,214 --> 00:37:41,650 like a Mogadishu attitude? 417 00:38:07,981 --> 00:38:10,549 Michelle: The Peace Hotel compound was a little oasis of, 418 00:38:10,679 --> 00:38:12,768 well, peace. 419 00:38:12,899 --> 00:38:15,380 But outside, the city was on edge. 420 00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:17,425 There was a lockdown and a curfew. 421 00:38:17,556 --> 00:38:19,949 People were frustrated. 422 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,082 There had been too many attacks. 423 00:38:22,212 --> 00:38:24,258 Bombings and shootings in areas 424 00:38:24,389 --> 00:38:27,043 that were supposed to be secure. 425 00:38:27,174 --> 00:38:28,784 Anger was building towards the government. 426 00:38:41,667 --> 00:38:44,104 Security of course always brings comfort. 427 00:38:44,234 --> 00:38:46,628 But my greatest sense of relief 428 00:38:46,759 --> 00:38:48,587 came when I saw Sahal. 429 00:38:52,678 --> 00:38:55,376 There were very few trips I had ever made to Mogadishu 430 00:38:55,507 --> 00:38:57,639 without his guidance. 431 00:38:57,770 --> 00:39:00,381 And it felt even more crucial and personal 432 00:39:00,512 --> 00:39:03,166 for this trip with Ismael. 433 00:39:05,517 --> 00:39:08,041 It didn't take long to get a sense of the city's anger 434 00:39:08,171 --> 00:39:11,566 and insecurity playing out on the streets. 435 00:39:11,697 --> 00:39:14,917 A rickshaw driver had been shot dead by security forces. 436 00:39:16,571 --> 00:39:18,791 Mere minutes later, protests erupted 437 00:39:18,921 --> 00:39:21,576 and then were violently suppressed. 438 00:39:21,707 --> 00:39:24,927 All of this was on the route to where Ismael's family lived. 439 00:39:28,061 --> 00:39:29,671 This is right now. 440 00:39:31,064 --> 00:39:32,718 They're carrying the body of the rickshaw driver 441 00:39:32,848 --> 00:39:34,633 that was just killed. 442 00:39:36,417 --> 00:39:37,897 It just makes me worry for the city 443 00:39:38,027 --> 00:39:39,115 when it happens that fast, you know. 444 00:39:44,556 --> 00:39:45,861 No. 445 00:39:49,343 --> 00:39:50,866 - That's exciting? - Yeah. 446 00:40:05,838 --> 00:40:07,405 Tell me the last time you saw her. 447 00:40:21,506 --> 00:40:23,029 Where did you see her the last time? 448 00:40:43,745 --> 00:40:45,878 You must have missed her a lot. - Mmm? 449 00:40:46,008 --> 00:40:47,488 You must have missed her a lot. 450 00:40:53,146 --> 00:40:54,408 Go ahead. 451 00:41:04,549 --> 00:41:06,202 - They're waiting now? Okay. - Yes. 452 00:41:14,036 --> 00:41:16,343 Our security escort was ready to go. 453 00:41:16,474 --> 00:41:18,476 But Ismael's family reunion would have to wait. 454 00:41:21,348 --> 00:41:23,045 Thank you. 455 00:41:24,569 --> 00:41:26,614 His relatives lived outside the city limits. 456 00:41:26,745 --> 00:41:28,747 And the logistics and safety concerns 457 00:41:28,877 --> 00:41:31,663 made it too risky for him to go there. 458 00:41:31,793 --> 00:41:34,579 So for now we would just do a small tour 459 00:41:34,709 --> 00:41:36,668 so he could see the city he left behind. 460 00:41:45,894 --> 00:41:47,635 But all this security to drive around? 461 00:41:47,766 --> 00:41:49,811 The drama? 462 00:41:49,942 --> 00:41:51,596 It was needed because we were there. 463 00:41:52,858 --> 00:41:54,729 Foreigners are high risk targets. 464 00:41:54,860 --> 00:41:57,602 And this is one of the uncomfortable realities 465 00:41:57,732 --> 00:41:59,778 of being a foreign correspondent. 466 00:41:59,908 --> 00:42:02,737 You only see the city through this lens 467 00:42:02,868 --> 00:42:05,392 and there's an unfair power dynamic. 468 00:42:06,828 --> 00:42:09,091 Ismael never travelled like this as a kid. 469 00:42:10,789 --> 00:42:12,573 And he wouldn't travel quite like this when we left him. 470 00:42:44,823 --> 00:42:46,868 The explosion was relatively small. 471 00:42:46,999 --> 00:42:49,871 A car was on fire and traffic was diverted. 472 00:42:50,002 --> 00:42:52,831 But this was on Mogadishu's main thoroughfare, 473 00:42:52,961 --> 00:42:55,573 one of its most secure streets. 474 00:42:55,703 --> 00:42:57,444 Man: You have seen a little bit. 475 00:42:58,793 --> 00:43:00,360 As we filmed, 476 00:43:00,490 --> 00:43:02,580 it was obvious how much attention we drew. 477 00:43:04,146 --> 00:43:06,366 We worried about putting Ismael at any greater risk. 478 00:43:09,848 --> 00:43:11,371 It was decided that his family would meet 479 00:43:11,501 --> 00:43:13,982 at the hotel instead. 480 00:43:14,113 --> 00:43:16,071 And for security reasons we wouldn't film. 481 00:43:19,814 --> 00:43:21,642 So you just came from visiting your family. 482 00:43:29,650 --> 00:43:31,173 What was it like? 483 00:43:38,877 --> 00:43:40,835 Well, tell, tell me about it. Like what was it like? 484 00:44:10,256 --> 00:44:11,866 - Go eat dinner? - Yeah. 485 00:44:15,478 --> 00:44:18,525 If that felt awkward to watch, you're right. 486 00:44:18,656 --> 00:44:20,832 It felt weird as we filmed it. 487 00:44:20,962 --> 00:44:23,095 Almost staged. 488 00:44:25,532 --> 00:44:28,840 Ismael had been so excited about seeing his family again. 489 00:44:28,970 --> 00:44:31,190 But he didn't seem to want to talk about it. 490 00:44:32,844 --> 00:44:35,585 I wondered, did we ruin the homecoming by being there? 491 00:44:35,716 --> 00:44:37,370 Or was he upset 492 00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:39,720 because he felt he couldn't safely move back here? 493 00:44:43,202 --> 00:44:44,943 The day before I left Mogadishu, 494 00:44:45,073 --> 00:44:47,119 he asked us if I could change his flight 495 00:44:47,249 --> 00:44:50,078 because he wanted to stay much longer than the two weeks 496 00:44:50,209 --> 00:44:52,254 he and Sahal had agreed upon. 497 00:44:52,385 --> 00:44:54,474 It was too risky to stay with his family. 498 00:44:54,604 --> 00:44:57,042 So he would rely on friends in the city. 499 00:44:57,172 --> 00:44:59,218 But he was so high profile. 500 00:44:59,348 --> 00:45:01,655 And we worried news of his return to Mogadishu 501 00:45:01,786 --> 00:45:03,701 would travel fast. 502 00:45:03,831 --> 00:45:06,791 Sahal is one of them most careful planners I know. 503 00:45:06,921 --> 00:45:09,097 And this change really worried him. 504 00:45:11,186 --> 00:45:12,448 What's going on? 505 00:45:17,802 --> 00:45:19,194 Me too. 506 00:45:29,639 --> 00:45:30,771 Well, we should do our last interview with you 507 00:45:30,902 --> 00:45:32,991 if you're running off, 508 00:45:33,121 --> 00:45:35,733 if you want to get linked up with Jim. 509 00:45:37,473 --> 00:45:39,301 What's going on with you?! 510 00:45:39,432 --> 00:45:40,738 No, it's like you're a different person. 511 00:45:54,795 --> 00:45:58,190 Even though I had less trauma than what he went through, 512 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,194 I still, it took me time to come to Mogadishu too. 513 00:46:02,324 --> 00:46:05,240 So I was sort of being protective. 514 00:46:07,242 --> 00:46:09,244 He was a bit rebellious. 515 00:46:09,375 --> 00:46:11,638 So you, you don't understand 516 00:46:11,769 --> 00:46:14,032 what I went through in Norway. 517 00:46:37,925 --> 00:46:39,666 I was the father figure. 518 00:46:39,797 --> 00:46:41,711 I, you don't want to go. 519 00:46:41,842 --> 00:46:44,584 The place is not ah, as safe as you think. 520 00:46:46,151 --> 00:46:48,544 Ah, all these people that he might mix up 521 00:46:50,155 --> 00:46:53,680 might not have his best interest at heart. 522 00:47:36,288 --> 00:47:37,637 Michelle: We've got to go back in and we'll be back. 523 00:47:37,767 --> 00:47:39,073 Okay, thanks a lot. 524 00:47:39,204 --> 00:47:41,119 Where's your car? 525 00:47:41,249 --> 00:47:43,164 Driving up. 526 00:47:46,428 --> 00:47:48,343 Ismael, listen. What do I know? 527 00:47:48,474 --> 00:47:49,997 I know nothing, right? I'm not Somali. 528 00:47:50,128 --> 00:47:53,174 But everybody has told us like you're - 529 00:47:53,305 --> 00:47:55,220 everybody is telling us they're worried about you. 530 00:47:55,350 --> 00:47:56,917 So of course I'm going to be worried about you too. 531 00:48:16,676 --> 00:48:18,286 How long can you what? 532 00:48:29,863 --> 00:48:31,560 All right. 533 00:48:31,691 --> 00:48:33,301 Well, so I'm not gonna see you for a bit now. 534 00:48:36,652 --> 00:48:38,045 Are you going to Skype like every week? 535 00:48:49,230 --> 00:48:50,666 - Okay. Be careful. - Yeah. 536 00:49:30,663 --> 00:49:32,795 There was another world outside the gates of the hotel, 537 00:49:32,926 --> 00:49:35,624 one that's not reflected in the news coverage. 538 00:49:35,755 --> 00:49:37,278 I didn't get to see it much either. 539 00:49:38,932 --> 00:49:42,196 But this view of Mogadishu is full of stunning beaches. 540 00:49:42,327 --> 00:49:44,720 There's a vibrant culture of food, 541 00:49:44,851 --> 00:49:47,332 community, sports, poetry, music and art. 542 00:49:50,204 --> 00:49:52,641 I was really hoping this is what Ismael would return to, 543 00:49:52,772 --> 00:49:54,904 an authentic Mogadishu 544 00:49:55,035 --> 00:49:57,124 where he could find some peace. 545 00:49:57,255 --> 00:49:59,170 But as I left the city, 546 00:49:59,300 --> 00:50:01,650 I felt nothing but dread. 547 00:50:01,781 --> 00:50:04,262 A terrible combination of feeling responsible 548 00:50:04,392 --> 00:50:06,177 and helpless at the same time. 549 00:50:12,226 --> 00:50:13,619 All right, let me try him again. 550 00:50:28,199 --> 00:50:29,983 I hope he answers. 551 00:50:39,210 --> 00:50:40,559 Okay. 552 00:50:42,387 --> 00:50:43,779 Let me try him again because he was on - 553 00:50:45,651 --> 00:50:47,827 he was on Facebook three minutes ago 554 00:50:47,957 --> 00:50:50,090 and Skype seven minutes ago. 555 00:51:04,713 --> 00:51:06,976 Hm, he's ghosting me. 556 00:51:13,505 --> 00:51:16,508 Whatever he does now, it is up to him. 557 00:51:16,638 --> 00:51:20,642 I mean nobody is responsible for anybody's mistake 558 00:51:20,773 --> 00:51:23,080 and ah, responsibility. 559 00:51:23,210 --> 00:51:25,212 God made you - 560 00:51:25,343 --> 00:51:28,868 all men responsible for your deeds and what have you. 561 00:51:28,998 --> 00:51:30,957 And I now believe 562 00:51:31,088 --> 00:51:33,568 we give him a chance to, 563 00:51:35,918 --> 00:51:38,356 regardless of what we hear now, 564 00:51:38,486 --> 00:51:40,140 to live as a normal human being. 565 00:51:42,186 --> 00:51:44,057 Michelle: Ismael ended up staying in Mogadishu 566 00:51:44,188 --> 00:51:46,103 for three months. 567 00:51:46,233 --> 00:51:49,454 And when he did reach out it was mainly by text. 568 00:51:49,584 --> 00:51:52,370 And it was clear something was going on with him. 569 00:52:39,504 --> 00:52:41,897 Dr. Anthony Feinstein was a friend of Sahal's 570 00:52:42,028 --> 00:52:44,291 and also a friend of mine. 571 00:52:44,422 --> 00:52:47,251 He specialized in the field of PTSD 572 00:52:47,381 --> 00:52:48,904 and had helped many journalists I knew 573 00:52:49,035 --> 00:52:50,863 after they experienced trauma. 574 00:52:50,993 --> 00:52:52,604 He had helped Sahal recover 575 00:52:52,734 --> 00:52:54,388 in the months that followed the car bombing 576 00:52:54,519 --> 00:52:56,608 where he was nearly killed. 577 00:52:56,738 --> 00:52:59,350 So we're doing this documentary on um, 578 00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,831 this great kid that I met in Mogadishu in 2010. 579 00:53:02,962 --> 00:53:04,572 I think I've told you his story in the past. 580 00:53:04,703 --> 00:53:06,618 Yeah. 581 00:53:06,748 --> 00:53:09,098 So, this summer we went - or in the spring, 582 00:53:09,229 --> 00:53:11,144 we went and filmed him in Norway. 583 00:53:11,275 --> 00:53:14,016 And after that he had a massive, massive breakdown. 584 00:53:15,844 --> 00:53:19,544 And it was I think kind of the first real breakdown, 585 00:53:19,674 --> 00:53:22,721 were he fully broke down since the incident. 586 00:53:24,331 --> 00:53:26,899 Do you have-- I mean, you've studied PTSD for years now, 587 00:53:27,029 --> 00:53:28,944 - Mm-hmm. - mainly with journalists. 588 00:53:29,075 --> 00:53:31,425 But I think it's probably similar to victims 589 00:53:31,556 --> 00:53:33,819 - of terrorism as well. - Yes. 590 00:53:33,949 --> 00:53:37,736 Is that common to have that kind of breakdown 591 00:53:39,303 --> 00:53:40,652 so many years later? I'm trying to understand from afar. 592 00:53:40,782 --> 00:53:42,436 So it is uncommon but it is recognized. 593 00:53:42,567 --> 00:53:45,047 There is a category of, of PTSD 594 00:53:45,178 --> 00:53:46,745 called the late onset, 595 00:53:46,875 --> 00:53:49,313 which by definition it has to be a gap of time, 596 00:53:49,443 --> 00:53:51,837 they said arbitrarily at six months 597 00:53:51,967 --> 00:53:53,578 but it can be quite a long time after that. 598 00:53:53,708 --> 00:53:56,189 That initial trauma 599 00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,671 can come back and... with a vengeance 600 00:53:59,801 --> 00:54:03,501 and show up as very typical PTSD type symptoms 601 00:54:03,631 --> 00:54:06,373 that might be triggered by a particular event 602 00:54:07,766 --> 00:54:10,682 that makes the person recollect images 603 00:54:10,812 --> 00:54:13,467 or memories of what they endured. 604 00:54:13,598 --> 00:54:15,600 So there could be a trigger for it. 605 00:54:15,730 --> 00:54:18,211 We now have this friendship. 606 00:54:18,342 --> 00:54:20,213 I'm almost like an older sibling to him. 607 00:54:20,344 --> 00:54:22,171 And I actually don't know how to deal with it. 608 00:54:22,302 --> 00:54:23,782 It's, it's a weird position to be in. 609 00:54:23,912 --> 00:54:26,567 Because I still have sort of the journalism backbone. 610 00:54:26,698 --> 00:54:28,830 You know. And do you find that with other journalists? 611 00:54:28,961 --> 00:54:30,832 Are you finding that in the field? 612 00:54:30,963 --> 00:54:34,096 Well, you know, I think you touch on something which is - 613 00:54:34,227 --> 00:54:36,795 we're talking, it's really relevant now which is, 614 00:54:36,925 --> 00:54:39,014 you know, what are the boundaries for journalists. 615 00:54:39,145 --> 00:54:42,496 Because this was reinforced with a study that we did. 616 00:54:44,193 --> 00:54:47,327 I did a study back in 2017. 617 00:54:47,458 --> 00:54:49,460 And what we found was something called moral injury, 618 00:54:49,590 --> 00:54:51,331 which is not a mental illness 619 00:54:51,462 --> 00:54:53,420 and it's important to stress that. 620 00:54:53,551 --> 00:54:55,030 It's not a mental illness 621 00:54:55,161 --> 00:54:56,902 and I hope it never becomes a mental illness. 622 00:54:57,032 --> 00:55:00,035 But what it refers to is a sense 623 00:55:00,166 --> 00:55:01,646 that as a person you've lost your moral way 624 00:55:01,776 --> 00:55:03,865 which is something that you might have done 625 00:55:03,996 --> 00:55:05,693 or that you failed to do. 626 00:55:06,999 --> 00:55:08,914 Or you think that your news organization 627 00:55:09,044 --> 00:55:11,133 has lost its moral integrity 628 00:55:11,264 --> 00:55:14,006 because your news managers have made the wrong decision. 629 00:55:14,136 --> 00:55:16,182 And many examples cropped up. 630 00:55:16,313 --> 00:55:18,097 For example, if I'm a journalist 631 00:55:18,227 --> 00:55:20,317 and I'm on a beach in Greece 632 00:55:20,447 --> 00:55:22,536 and there's nobody else there 633 00:55:22,667 --> 00:55:24,538 and there's a boat bobbing offshore 634 00:55:24,669 --> 00:55:27,019 and the migrants can't swim, what do I do? 635 00:55:27,149 --> 00:55:29,151 Do I take the photograph? 636 00:55:29,282 --> 00:55:31,197 Do I wade in to try to save people 637 00:55:31,328 --> 00:55:33,330 if they're calling for help? 638 00:55:33,460 --> 00:55:35,767 If I do wade in, who do I choose to save? 639 00:55:35,897 --> 00:55:38,596 Do I choose to save the adult or the child? 640 00:55:38,726 --> 00:55:40,946 If there are multiple children why did I choose that child 641 00:55:41,076 --> 00:55:42,991 and not that child? 642 00:55:43,122 --> 00:55:45,167 And so you end up with these very uncomfortable choices 643 00:55:45,298 --> 00:55:47,256 that you have to make. 644 00:55:47,387 --> 00:55:49,346 And by, you know, putting your humanity first, 645 00:55:49,476 --> 00:55:51,217 which is clearly what you've done, 646 00:55:51,348 --> 00:55:53,959 your relationship with your subject changes. 647 00:55:54,089 --> 00:55:55,700 You know, you're no longer just a journalist, 648 00:55:55,830 --> 00:55:57,092 but you're something else. 649 00:56:07,407 --> 00:56:08,800 Michelle: It had been eight months 650 00:56:08,930 --> 00:56:12,020 since the last time I saw Ismael in Mogadishu. 651 00:56:12,151 --> 00:56:14,458 He had agreed to come back to Toronto 652 00:56:14,588 --> 00:56:17,243 because he said he needed to get something off his chest. 653 00:56:19,114 --> 00:56:21,769 He said he hadn't been completely truthful 654 00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:23,684 about what happened to him. 655 00:56:23,815 --> 00:56:26,121 He seemed a bit angry and anxious. 656 00:56:40,484 --> 00:56:42,268 Things with Ismael and Sahal had been intense too. 657 00:56:43,661 --> 00:56:45,140 They had long phone conversations 658 00:56:45,271 --> 00:56:47,404 once Ismael left Somalia. 659 00:56:47,534 --> 00:56:50,189 Like me, Sahal was just trying to figure out exactly 660 00:56:50,319 --> 00:56:52,583 what was going on. 661 00:56:52,713 --> 00:56:54,889 All we knew was that Ismael 662 00:56:55,020 --> 00:56:57,022 had some sort of epiphany in Mogadishu 663 00:56:57,152 --> 00:56:58,980 and we were a part of it. 664 00:56:59,111 --> 00:57:02,157 And we would understand better when he told us the truth. 665 00:57:12,646 --> 00:57:14,561 - Hey. How are you doing? - What's up? 666 00:57:14,692 --> 00:57:16,215 Yes, this is your coffee. 667 00:57:16,345 --> 00:57:18,565 - Hello. Ismael. - Hey. 668 00:57:49,378 --> 00:57:51,163 I know it's a bit awkward talking like this. 669 00:57:51,293 --> 00:57:52,991 Because it's the first time you guys have seen each other. 670 00:57:53,121 --> 00:57:55,559 And we'll talk about this later too when we do interviews. 671 00:57:55,689 --> 00:57:57,474 Because I think we all have to figure out 672 00:57:57,604 --> 00:57:59,301 - Mm-hmm. - kind of what happened. 673 00:58:10,051 --> 00:58:11,879 You have a lot of kids. I have none. 674 00:58:12,010 --> 00:58:13,968 Is this what it feels like to be a parent? 675 00:58:15,622 --> 00:58:18,364 Aah, the other thing is ah, 676 00:58:18,495 --> 00:58:20,453 everybody is different. 677 00:58:20,584 --> 00:58:23,543 - None of them are alike. - I know. 678 00:58:25,153 --> 00:58:29,331 Because everyone is his own human being, his own, 679 00:58:31,290 --> 00:58:34,075 his own little cocoon and world. 680 00:58:34,206 --> 00:58:38,689 Well. But also he's like, you know, what is he now? 26? 681 00:58:40,299 --> 00:58:42,475 But it feels like he's gone back to being 17, you know. 682 00:58:43,911 --> 00:58:45,609 Like the trip back to Mogadishu 683 00:58:45,739 --> 00:58:47,654 like brought him back to being a kid. 684 00:58:49,003 --> 00:58:50,831 - What I was trying to get out of him was, 685 00:58:50,962 --> 00:58:53,051 yes, in Mogadishu there was a change. 686 00:58:55,096 --> 00:58:57,272 There is a moment in the course of these things to happen. 687 00:58:58,970 --> 00:59:01,799 And hopefully before the end of this week, 688 00:59:01,929 --> 00:59:03,888 I hope to get more than one percent. 689 00:59:07,718 --> 00:59:09,371 Are we good to go? Everybody is good to go? 690 00:59:18,859 --> 00:59:20,905 It's going to be a long day. 691 00:59:22,515 --> 00:59:23,690 Let's get rid of the day? Let's get this over with? Okay. 692 00:59:25,431 --> 00:59:26,650 Are you sick of telling your story? 693 00:59:33,308 --> 00:59:34,440 Nobody knows the whole story. 694 00:59:36,181 --> 00:59:37,617 Okay. So should we-- 695 00:59:42,535 --> 00:59:44,189 Like I want you to tell me in your own words-- 696 00:59:55,896 --> 00:59:57,463 I just need you-- 697 00:59:57,594 --> 00:59:59,117 Don't tell me what you think I want to hear. 698 00:59:59,247 --> 01:00:00,553 Mm-hmm. 699 01:00:00,684 --> 01:00:03,077 All I want to hear is the truth. 700 01:00:04,775 --> 01:00:07,212 You told me a story that you had to keep telling 701 01:00:07,342 --> 01:00:09,649 over and over again, because you had told it once. 702 01:00:10,911 --> 01:00:12,826 What you told me when we met, 703 01:00:12,957 --> 01:00:15,350 you've now told me isn't the real story. 704 01:00:15,481 --> 01:00:18,658 So, you wanted to keep going with the film, 705 01:00:18,789 --> 01:00:20,747 you wanted to correct the record. 706 01:00:20,878 --> 01:00:23,576 Please, tell me what really happened? 707 01:00:25,186 --> 01:00:28,233 As a journalist, if you write something that's not true, 708 01:00:28,363 --> 01:00:30,931 that's-that's a big deal to me. 709 01:00:31,062 --> 01:00:33,760 You know, that doesn't - that doesn't happen to me. 710 01:00:33,891 --> 01:00:35,632 I have to - I have to correct the record too. 711 01:00:36,850 --> 01:00:40,201 So, I need you to help me as well, 712 01:00:41,638 --> 01:00:43,552 to tell me really what happened. 713 01:00:45,424 --> 01:00:47,992 And it's, it's, you know, I think over the years 714 01:00:48,122 --> 01:00:49,863 you said it yourself. You said it really well. 715 01:00:49,994 --> 01:00:51,865 Like you've been sort of telling me 716 01:00:51,996 --> 01:00:54,259 what you think I want to hear 717 01:00:54,389 --> 01:00:57,392 and what, you know, the Western world wants to hear. 718 01:00:59,481 --> 01:01:01,092 And I actually think you were pretty smart in that. 719 01:01:01,222 --> 01:01:02,789 And I think you were right. 720 01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,444 Because the story you told that I wrote about 721 01:01:05,574 --> 01:01:07,707 and others have told afterwards 722 01:01:07,838 --> 01:01:09,709 was really sympathetic. 723 01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:11,755 And I still think you're sympathetic. 724 01:01:11,885 --> 01:01:14,148 But, but tell me - correct the record. 725 01:01:14,279 --> 01:01:16,934 Tell me, 726 01:01:17,064 --> 01:01:18,805 tell me what happened in ah-- 727 01:01:21,503 --> 01:01:23,114 in 2009. 728 01:02:31,269 --> 01:02:32,618 Are you okay to get going again? 729 01:02:36,970 --> 01:02:40,974 Okay. So, we left off you were gonna - 730 01:02:41,105 --> 01:02:42,846 you were gonna get into 731 01:02:44,195 --> 01:02:45,587 around 2009. 732 01:04:30,692 --> 01:04:32,303 Was it just one night of robbing people? 733 01:04:32,433 --> 01:04:33,608 - No. - No? 734 01:04:37,264 --> 01:04:39,005 You wanna keep talking? Okay. Okay. 735 01:04:42,052 --> 01:04:43,923 So, how did it stop? 736 01:05:34,321 --> 01:05:35,932 Who did he call? 737 01:05:41,067 --> 01:05:43,156 When we met you told me that they tried to recruit you 738 01:05:43,287 --> 01:05:46,420 and they took you to prison. They took you to a stadium. 739 01:05:46,551 --> 01:05:48,379 What other parts of the original story 740 01:05:48,509 --> 01:05:49,946 that you told weren't true? 741 01:06:09,052 --> 01:06:12,664 You told, you told me that after three months 742 01:06:12,794 --> 01:06:14,013 you escaped their custody. And I always remember-- 743 01:07:17,859 --> 01:07:19,513 I do. 744 01:07:58,117 --> 01:07:59,988 Does it-does it feel- does it feel better now? 745 01:08:02,904 --> 01:08:04,471 Yeah? 746 01:08:09,128 --> 01:08:10,956 Way more free. 747 01:08:27,146 --> 01:08:30,106 When he told us the news 748 01:08:30,236 --> 01:08:32,151 that this had all been a lie, 749 01:08:32,282 --> 01:08:35,241 you would think that my first reaction would be about, 750 01:08:36,764 --> 01:08:39,071 you know, the journalism part, the ethics. 751 01:08:39,202 --> 01:08:41,508 And oh my God, I've been part of telling a lie. 752 01:08:41,639 --> 01:08:45,295 This is not - parts of the very first story, 753 01:08:45,425 --> 01:08:47,253 the story that I've been told 754 01:08:47,384 --> 01:08:49,864 and other media has picked up on, has not been true. 755 01:08:49,995 --> 01:08:51,779 But-but it wasn't. 756 01:08:51,910 --> 01:08:54,173 And, I felt, I felt guilty. 757 01:08:57,263 --> 01:08:59,004 I think somewhere in me I was like, okay, 758 01:08:59,135 --> 01:09:01,093 this is a perfect story. 759 01:09:01,224 --> 01:09:04,183 This is a perfect victim. We've got good and evil. 760 01:09:04,314 --> 01:09:06,925 Terrorists did this to him. He's an innocent boy. 761 01:09:07,055 --> 01:09:09,362 He wants to stay in school, that's great. 762 01:09:11,538 --> 01:09:13,061 And I don't mean great. That's the - 763 01:09:13,192 --> 01:09:15,499 that for journalism wise I'm like, 764 01:09:15,629 --> 01:09:17,065 this is a simple story to write. 765 01:09:17,196 --> 01:09:18,937 What's happening in Somalia right now 766 01:09:19,067 --> 01:09:20,765 is, is really complicated. 767 01:09:44,702 --> 01:09:46,878 How do you deal that? 768 01:09:47,008 --> 01:09:49,489 And I think it is again something that you and me, 769 01:09:49,620 --> 01:09:52,231 we have to - I think you are even worse than - 770 01:09:53,754 --> 01:09:55,060 you are in a worse position than I am 771 01:09:55,191 --> 01:09:57,062 because ah, you wrote it 772 01:09:58,237 --> 01:10:00,413 and all over the world it went. 773 01:10:00,544 --> 01:10:03,068 And we took this story and ah, 774 01:10:04,591 --> 01:10:06,202 yes, both of us didn't know. 775 01:10:06,332 --> 01:10:09,509 And sometimes ah, 776 01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:11,729 now you are no longer with the newspaper, 777 01:10:11,859 --> 01:10:13,252 how do you correct it? 778 01:10:19,693 --> 01:10:21,391 Michelle: So for ten years 779 01:10:21,521 --> 01:10:24,394 Ismael had to carry the burden of telling a story 780 01:10:24,524 --> 01:10:27,614 that he thought the world wanted to hear. 781 01:10:27,745 --> 01:10:30,313 And for that decade, I happily told it. 782 01:10:35,535 --> 01:10:37,581 I never shied away from writing complicated 783 01:10:37,711 --> 01:10:39,322 or controversial stories. 784 01:10:40,758 --> 01:10:42,455 But there's no question 785 01:10:42,586 --> 01:10:44,849 I loved his simple narrative. 786 01:10:44,979 --> 01:10:47,460 A resilient, innocent kid 787 01:10:47,591 --> 01:10:50,158 who defied a powerful, terrorist group. 788 01:10:51,464 --> 01:10:54,206 Who couldn't understand that story? 789 01:10:57,557 --> 01:11:00,125 But the thing is how did this version of the story 790 01:11:00,256 --> 01:11:02,388 really change anything? 791 01:11:03,824 --> 01:11:06,610 He was still a teenager trying to survive a war. 792 01:11:06,740 --> 01:11:10,222 And he had his hand and foot cut off by a terrorist group. 793 01:11:11,528 --> 01:11:13,399 When he met me, 794 01:11:13,530 --> 01:11:15,706 he didn't think that alone 795 01:11:15,836 --> 01:11:17,751 would make him sympathetic enough. 796 01:11:17,882 --> 01:11:21,015 So he turned himself into a perfect victim, 797 01:11:22,669 --> 01:11:24,889 so it would be the perfect story. 798 01:11:27,587 --> 01:11:29,502 Because we all tell stories, 799 01:11:29,633 --> 01:11:32,157 our own stories, stories about others. 800 01:11:32,288 --> 01:11:35,291 Some stories become part of our official history 801 01:11:35,421 --> 01:11:37,597 and can change the way we look at the world. 802 01:11:39,773 --> 01:11:42,907 Some stories can change the way we look at ourselves. 61660

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