All language subtitles for MV5B87NzViNWFm

af Afrikaans
ak Akan
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic Download
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bem Bemba
bn Bengali
bh Bihari
bs Bosnian
br Breton
bg Bulgarian
km Cambodian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
chr Cherokee
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
en English
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
ee Ewe
fo Faroese
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gaa Ga
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gn Guarani
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ia Interlingua
ga Irish
it Italian
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
rw Kinyarwanda
rn Kirundi
kg Kongo
ko Korean
kri Krio (Sierra Leone)
ku Kurdish
ckb Kurdish (Soranî)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Laothian
la Latin
lv Latvian
ln Lingala
lt Lithuanian
loz Lozi
lg Luganda
ach Luo
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mfe Mauritian Creole
mo Moldavian
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
sr-ME Montenegrin
ne Nepali
pcm Nigerian Pidgin
nso Northern Sotho
no Norwegian
nn Norwegian (Nynorsk)
oc Occitan
or Oriya
om Oromo
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt-BR Portuguese (Brazil)
pt Portuguese (Portugal)
pa Punjabi
qu Quechua
ro Romanian
rm Romansh
nyn Runyakitara
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
sh Serbo-Croatian
st Sesotho
tn Setswana
crs Seychellois Creole
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhalese
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish
es-419 Spanish (Latin American)
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
tt Tatar
te Telugu
th Thai
ti Tigrinya
to Tonga
lua Tshiluba
tum Tumbuka
tr Turkish
tk Turkmen
tw Twi
ug Uighur
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
wo Wolof
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,320 This programme deals with Eating Disorders 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,680 In August 2013, Belle Gibson launched The Whole Pantry, 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:12,240 a book, an app, and a website, 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:16,120 in which she claimed that healthy eating had cured her condition. 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,840 It was five years ago I was diagnosed with terminal cancer. 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:21,120 It's been hard. 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,000 Belle Gibson was the Queen Bee of Wellness. 8 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,640 People worshipped her. 9 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,840 I was deeply invested in what she was saying, 10 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,640 because it was just such an amazing story. 11 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,960 This is the story of the rise and fall of one of Instagram's first 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:43,040 super influencers, told by those she influenced... 13 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,480 Maybe SHE'S got the right idea, maybe I'M doing it all wrong. 14 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,640 I'm dying, and she's out there, living her best life. 15 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,000 ...and those who sought the truth. 16 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,280 I just was immediately suspicious about her claim 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:58,680 about this brain tumour. 18 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,120 You just don't live with something like that for five years, 19 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:02,880 without having some kind of treatment. 20 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,040 I am not lying. 21 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,280 He definitely told me that my brain tumour is still present, 22 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,840 and that I have new and secondary cancers. 23 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,680 In 2013, the world first met wellness influencer Belle Gibson, 24 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:35,960 who attracted a huge global online following with her brave story. 25 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,760 A young, beautiful woman gets given the terrible news 26 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:43,600 she has inoperable brain cancer, and only four months to live. 27 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,480 The courageous Belle Gibson tries chemotherapy, but no luck, 28 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,280 so turns to alternative medicine to battle the disease. 29 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,360 Belle shared her incredible story, 30 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,600 of living for years with terminal cancer, on Instagram. 31 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,760 Her adoring audience was inspired by her every post. 32 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,520 It looked like, even if you weren't going through cancer treatment, 33 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,640 that you would still want to live that lifestyle. 34 00:02:10,640 --> 00:02:15,200 Everything was bright and glossy. An amazing style about her 35 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,480 that was very engaging and very appealing. 36 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,640 It just all looked great. 37 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:23,240 I was in complete awe of this woman. 38 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,360 She was incredibly open and honest. 39 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,160 She was unafraid to be vulnerable 40 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,080 and be very explicit about her experience. 41 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,920 She had this incredible story that was something that I could perhaps 42 00:02:36,920 --> 00:02:39,360 relate to, in a way, with my own health issues. 43 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:44,040 She took her own wellbeing into her hands, and it worked, 44 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,120 and she transformed her life from it. 45 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,600 When Maxine Ali began secondary school, 46 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,440 she was diagnosed with the chronic illness ulcerative colitis. 47 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,440 I got so unwell that, eventually, 48 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,680 I wasn't able to go to school any more, 49 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,200 I wasn't able to participate in the normal things 50 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,720 that most 12-year-olds are doing at that time. 51 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,840 Immediately after I was diagnosed, 52 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,440 I was put on a whole bunch of medication, including steroids. 53 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,160 I kind of experienced some of the physical side effects 54 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,440 that come from steroids, such as weight gain, erm, 55 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:25,880 bloating of the face, 56 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,520 and when I was eventually well enough to go back to school, 57 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,600 my physical appearance had changed quite considerably. 58 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,520 All of my friends no longer wanted to be seen with me, 59 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,000 or associated with me, because I was the weird one that stuck out. 60 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,400 The way I was being treated while I was on medication 61 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:52,440 was so unbearable for me that I decided to stop 62 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,920 using conventional medicine, and try and find a natural way 63 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,320 to heal myself. 64 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,880 Seeing someone like Belle heal themselves through food 65 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:10,000 made me feel hopeful, it made me feel like this was the answer 66 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,280 to everything that I had been looking for. 67 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,120 The foundations of Belle's radical approach, 68 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,240 healing illness through diet, were laid over 50 years ago. 69 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,160 There's a word you don't hear every day. 70 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,720 It means exactly what you might think it means - 71 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,720 the opposite of illness. 72 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,200 It's a movement that is catching on all over the country, 73 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,200 among doctors, nurses and others concerned with medical care. 74 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,560 Wellness is really the ultimate in something called self-care, 75 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,800 in which patients are taught to diagnose common illnesses, 76 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,600 and, where possible, to treat themselves. 77 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:49,040 Wellness was born in 1960s California, where a generation 78 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,280 of young Americans experimented with Eastern mysticism, 79 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:56,280 mind-expanding drugs, and back-to-nature living. 80 00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:58,240 In wellness, you are the leader. 81 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,960 You're your own guru, and you're the perfect person 82 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,880 that is trying to make your life better and more full. 83 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,920 Before long, wellness shed its alternative roots, 84 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,640 growing with exercise fads, spa tourism and diet crazes. 85 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,840 Wellness had reached the mainstream. 86 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:19,960 Alongside attempts to encourage all of us to look after our health 87 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,240 a little better is a booming wellness industry, 88 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,440 claimed to be worth $4.2 trillion a year. 89 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:32,400 Wellness found a home on social media, encouraged by celebrities, 90 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,040 who posted their aspirational lifestyles, 91 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,080 full of wellness practices. 92 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,920 What if I told you the best place to begin is within? 93 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,240 It was at this point that Belle started posting 94 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,720 about her wellness journey. 95 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,560 I get out of bed for what we do. 96 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,640 We really believe that we're changing people's lives. 97 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,520 We just want to go, hey, maybe eat, you know, some more fruits 98 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,720 and vegetables, move your body a little more, 99 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,480 drink a little bit more water. 100 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,400 Inspired by Belle, 101 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,800 Pixie Turner took to Instagram to spread the wellness message. 102 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,440 {\an8}Everyone was using overhead shots, so I did the same... 103 00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:23,800 ...and the more I did that, the more it paid off. 104 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,760 And then I'd spend the next hour just refreshing 105 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,120 and refreshing Instagram, watching the likes come in. 106 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,000 I loved getting all those likes. 107 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,720 The first time I got over a thousand likes on a picture, 108 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,960 I was so happy. 109 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,920 Pixie's wellness journey began when she was advised to see 110 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,200 a cardiologist, following a health scare in the family. 111 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:51,520 When I was 19 years old, 112 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,040 I was told that my cholesterol was too high, 113 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,560 I should follow some lifestyle changes, if I wanted to, 114 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:58,920 and come back in a year. 115 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,800 If it was still high, I would have to go on statins 116 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,120 for the rest of my life. 117 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:04,640 I did not want to do that. 118 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,720 I went and did the most obvious thing to me, at the time. 119 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,920 I went straight to Dr Google, started typing. 120 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,880 I found Belle Gibson, and this wellness community, 121 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,320 that was very focused on taking charge of your own health. 122 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,000 It was very empowering, 123 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,600 and on top of that, it was very visually appealing. 124 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,040 And in between that, there were these pictures of these people 125 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,280 who looked so healthy, and happy, and shiny, 126 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,440 and if I need to eat that food to look like that, 127 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,760 I'm going to do it. 128 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,800 Like hundreds of thousands of others, Pixie and Maxine 129 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,520 started using the first wellness app in the world, The Whole Pantry, 130 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,120 designed by Belle Gibson. 131 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,560 It was offering this kind of tool kit for people 132 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:56,920 to follow her lifestyle. 133 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,000 So there were these really, really stunning recipes. 134 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,680 There was something very serene about the app. 135 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,200 I hadn't seen anyone do anything like that, 136 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,280 and, to me, I saw that as just a continuation of her wanting 137 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,680 to share something with the world that was valuable, 138 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:12,960 and that people wanted. 139 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,200 I saw it as very selfless for her to share all of this with people. 140 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,360 I thought she must be a really kind person. 141 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,440 Belle Gibson is a mother, a businesswoman, 142 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,840 and she's also living with brain cancer. 143 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,120 I mean, why this app? 144 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,160 When Belle went on breakfast TV to promote the app, 145 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,320 she was admired by the hosts. 146 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:31,960 And you're quite inspirational. 147 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,240 I wouldn't mind betting that that's a fair bit behind all of this, 148 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:36,400 as well... 149 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,120 They were visibly moved by her seemingly inspiring story. 150 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,840 We really believe that we've revolutionised, erm, something 151 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,280 that people are becoming increasingly interested 152 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,520 and invested in, which is health and wellness. 153 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,440 For a person living with brain cancer, 154 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,040 might I add, you look incredibly healthy. 155 00:08:58,560 --> 00:09:01,480 Having funded the award-winning app herself, 156 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,600 now Apple invited Belle to California. 157 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,160 They wanted to adapt The Whole Pantry for their 158 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,240 soon-to-be-launched Apple Watch. 159 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,080 It was five years ago I was diagnosed with terminal cancer, 160 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:18,200 and we launched The Whole Pantry a year ago. 161 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,760 That evolution came through my community. 162 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,600 They kept reaching out to me, saying, you know, 163 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,360 how are we going to, you know, live the whole life 164 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,360 without resources, or without something pulling that all together? 165 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,080 So that was my responsibility. 166 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,480 The Whole Pantry was about more than just healthy living. 167 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,840 It was also about giving back. 168 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,520 A portion of each app sale was donated to charitable causes 169 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,800 Belle was passionate about. 170 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,920 We really believe that we're changing people's lives, 171 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,200 and we have a giving-back end of the company as well, 172 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,960 with your app download transfers into community donation, 173 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,720 so that's everything from funding medical support for children 174 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:05,120 that are living with cancer, to building schools in Sierra Leone. 175 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,920 It just reinforced what I already knew about her, 176 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:09,360 which is that she is selfless, 177 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,600 she's not doing this for her own personal gain, 178 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,560 she's trying to help people, 179 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:15,920 and this was just another way of her doing that. 180 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,400 In Belle's hometown of Melbourne, mum-of-three Kylie Wyllie 181 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,280 had a successful personal training business. 182 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,120 I was getting ready for my best friend's wedding. 183 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,280 I was maid of honour, 184 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,040 so there was lots of excitement around that. 185 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,080 I had had some chest pain, which was unusual. 186 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,320 My husband and friend talked me into going to the doctor, 187 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,080 to have it investigated. 188 00:10:51,560 --> 00:10:55,160 So I went down to the local centre, and I had a scan, 189 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:58,320 and the first one was just an ultrasound of my armpits, 190 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,200 and I had MRIs and CT scans. 191 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:06,400 I was driving to the rehearsal dinner, and the doctor called me, 192 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,240 and she said, "I need you to come in to, come in to the clinic 193 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,520 "and see me". I said, "Well, it's just not possible, 194 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,280 "I'll have to see you on Monday. I can't come in". 195 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,280 And she said, "Well, I hate to do this over the phone, 196 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,440 "but you have lymphoma. 197 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:20,600 "You have cancer". 198 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,960 We got through the wedding, and the whole time, I just remember 199 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,840 being in this surreal, like, "Holy shit!" 200 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:38,000 Like, "How is this, like, my, my life right now? 201 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,040 "Like, what, what's going to happen?" 202 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:41,760 And that night, on the Sunday, 203 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,960 the lymph nodes had enlarged so much, 204 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,160 I was having trouble breathing, 205 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:46,880 cos they were pushing up pressure on my neck. 206 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:48,280 I couldn't lift my arms up, 207 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,160 and so I was taken via ambulance to the Alfred Hospital, 208 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,040 where I started treatment. 209 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,760 I guess the reality really set in about the severity of the diagnosis 210 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:02,680 is when the doctor said to me, 211 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:05,160 "You need to get your affairs in order". 212 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,920 And I remember looking at him, thinking, you have to be kidding. 213 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,080 I was diagnosed, like, five seconds ago. 214 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,120 How are you even, how am I down for the count already? 215 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,080 Like, give me a chance to fight it first. 216 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,160 After six months of treatment in hospital, 217 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,400 Kylie's health wasn't improving. 218 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,920 I was having daily chemo, I had no hair, 219 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,680 and I'd had 17 lumbar punctures. 220 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:36,400 I was like, you're not making me better, you're making me worse. 221 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,760 You're killing me. Like, why am I even doing this? 222 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,560 My beautiful girlfriend, Suzy, came to visit me, and she said to me, 223 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:49,640 "Have you heard about this girl, Belle Gibson?" 224 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,680 "She's got brain cancer, and, you know, she's doing really well". 225 00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:54,640 OK, this is interesting. 226 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,920 Maybe SHE'S got the right idea, maybe I'M doing it all wrong. 227 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:03,160 I'm dying on the inside, getting worse with every single treatment, 228 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,360 I look horrendous, 229 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,400 and she's out there, living her best life. 230 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,200 Interested in finding out more about her lifestyle, 231 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,720 Kylie bought Belle's newly released wellness book. 232 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,480 So, in the front page of the book, Belle writes about her own story. 233 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,840 "I pulled myself out of chemo and radiotherapy. 234 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,600 "My doctors freaked out, but they couldn't stop me. 235 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,000 "I was empowering myself to save my own life 236 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,400 "through nutrition, patience, determination and love". 237 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,360 I wanted to be just like Belle, beautiful, 238 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,760 and she was successful, 239 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:43,040 she was inspiring to so many people. 240 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,160 She was what the ultimate goal was, 241 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,240 to be like Belle Gibson. 242 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,320 Now, we've forgiven the avocado for its high fat content, 243 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:54,920 and deemed it a superfood. 244 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,120 But can the food we eat really clean our bodies 245 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,360 and make us feel well? 246 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,640 With her book and app, Belle advocated clean eating 247 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,640 to help heal the body, which meant restricting your diet. 248 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,200 Clean eating was a phrase that the wellness community 249 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,560 really latched on to, and really used a lot, 250 00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:17,680 the idea that we needed to clean up the way that we were eating. 251 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:20,640 I mean, everyone knows that vegetables are good for you, 252 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,160 fruit is good for you, plants are good for you. 253 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,440 It made sense, the idea that all these processed foods, 254 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,440 and these various ingredients that we were eating 255 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:29,640 were not good for us. 256 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,520 It was so simple and it made so much sense. 257 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,560 In pursuit of clean eating, 258 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,360 Pixie's diet became more and more restricted. 259 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:46,000 So in my fridge now, I've got various animal products, 260 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,560 things that I definitely would not have eaten, 261 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,040 anything with any kind of meat in it. 262 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,600 Definitely not. Er, we've got pasta, that's got gluten. 263 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,240 Hell no. That's not allowed. No way. 264 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,560 Anything with dairy, so, you know, whether that is, that's cream, 265 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:07,800 it's cheese, cream cheese, hard cheese, soft cheese. 266 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,200 None of this is OK. All of this has gone. 267 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,600 I mean, it seems harmless, but because it's prepared, 268 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,400 and it's in a package, I would not have eaten this. 269 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,680 Also this one has cream in it, so definitely a big no-no. 270 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,600 And, on paper, someone might say, you know, that seems really healthy, 271 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,080 like, that, to me, is the epitome of, like, a healthy thing. 272 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:28,840 It's got more than five ingredients. 273 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,120 That means it's processed, and you're not allowed it. 274 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:33,600 And what's the idea behind that? 275 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,080 Someone on the internet made it up, and it became a thing. 276 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,800 Because the idea is, if it has five or more ingredients, 277 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,440 it's probably a processed food, and therefore it's a bad food, 278 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:43,560 because it's processed. 279 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,680 And, finally, 280 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:46,920 we have wine. 281 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:48,800 Alcohol wasn't really a thing of wellness, 282 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,480 because it's completely devoid of nutrients, 283 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,400 and also, when you drink wine, or you drink alcohol, 284 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,560 it doesn't allow you to wake up feeling fresh the next morning, 285 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,480 ready to have your, you know, your spin class, 286 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,720 and your smoothie for breakfast. 287 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,000 I mean, I was at the end of my first year of uni 288 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,360 when I got into wellness, 289 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,560 so whilst a lot of my friends and colleagues were going out 290 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,680 and drinking, I was only, only very occasionally 291 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:18,360 going along with them, and I wouldn't drink that much. 292 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,400 Usually something really simple, not wine. 293 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,280 After nine months of chemotherapy, 294 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,600 Kylie was struggling to cope with treatment for her lymphoma. 295 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:39,320 I'd had enough of all of the poking and prodding and the constant scans. 296 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,760 I wasn't getting any better. 297 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,200 I was getting worse. 298 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,880 I was done and... 299 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,880 ...I can remember my husband, you know, waking me up 300 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,080 to take me to The Alfred and he would get up before me. 301 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,240 He would put my pillow in the car, my blanket, 302 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,680 then he would wake me last minute and take me. 303 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,520 And I sat at the door of the house. 304 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,280 I'm just like, "I'm done. I'm not doing it. 305 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,320 "I'm not going any more. I do not want another lumbar puncture. 306 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,560 "I don't want it. We need to talk about other treatments. 307 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,600 "I can't do this any more." 308 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,680 The chemo wasn't for me. It wasn't working for me 309 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,560 that I should come off it and try, you know, the clean eating. 310 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,880 I was desperate. My life had totally changed 311 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,960 and she appeared to be doing everything right. 312 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,160 And I felt like I was doing everything wrong. 313 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,480 I felt like I was sucked into this process 314 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,440 that wasn't working for me. 315 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:32,600 So I felt like, 316 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,040 "No, I need to give this a go to see if this works." 317 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,840 She was saying that what she was doing was curing her cancer. 318 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,920 It was making it better and... 319 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,200 ...I had her there to look at. 320 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,880 I had her on my phone and she was in magazines 321 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,920 and she was on the news and she was being reported, so... 322 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,160 ...I trusted her. 323 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,680 I trusted everybody that supported her. 324 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,200 Wanting to follow Belle's eating regime, 325 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,480 Kylie began messaging her directly on Instagram. 326 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:09,360 When I sent her a message, it was after she'd had another procedure 327 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,600 and I remember just, you know, sending her good wishes 328 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,080 and, you know, "I hope you're going to be OK", 329 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,240 and, "My thoughts and hopes are with you," 330 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,480 "Sending all, you know, positive vibes", 331 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,520 and she replied, thanking me for my kind wishes. 332 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,760 I was telling people, "I spoke to Belle Gibson." 333 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,960 "She replied to my message", 334 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,400 like, and I'd be all that. 335 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,800 I felt like we were probably opening, 336 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,520 you know, the lines of communication and probably would chat more about, 337 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,240 you know, her journey and my journey and... 338 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,760 ...yeah, I was pretty chuffed at the fact that she replied to my message. 339 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,440 I wanted to be her friend. 340 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,960 In July 2014, Belle posted this picture on Instagram, 341 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,080 with a caption explaining how her cancer had spread 342 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,080 and it wasn't a good prognosis. 343 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,960 With frustration and ache in my heart, 344 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,680 my beautiful game-changing community. 345 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,560 It hurts me to find space tonight, to let you all know, 346 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:07,920 with love and strength, 347 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,400 that I've been diagnosed with a third and fourth cancer. 348 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,600 I have cancer in my blood, spleen, brain, uterus and liver. 349 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,040 I am hurting. 350 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,480 I can still see it so clearly in my mind, that post and that caption, 351 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,800 because I just remember feeling so devastated for her. 352 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,800 Like, how can this happen to somebody who's worked so hard, 353 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,960 who's achieved all of this, who's such a great person? 354 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,880 It just seemed really unfair. 355 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,920 If brain cancer wasn't bad enough, and now, she's copping this 356 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,880 and this poor, beautiful woman that, 357 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,640 you know, was just trying to live her best life and... 358 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,600 ...I felt so sad for her. 359 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,920 Belle's devoted followers poured out their love and support 360 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,800 for her on social media, 361 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,360 but her claims were so extraordinary 362 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:53,640 that some had started to doubt her story. 363 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:05,360 Around 2005, my wife Susan was diagnosed with breast cancer, 364 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:07,800 {\an8}and I recall very vividly... 365 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,960 {\an8}...the feeling of powerlessness that we both had 366 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,200 and you want to have some sense of control over this illness 367 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,440 and not it just being in the hands of a doctor 368 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,760 and how desperate you can feel... 369 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,200 So desperate that you'll go down the Google rabbit hole 370 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,520 and look into all sorts of alternative practices 371 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,280 and you get into this bewildering kind of situation of who do I trust? 372 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,520 INTERVIEWER: What's the first thing that comes into your mind 373 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,040 when you hear the name, "Belle Gibson"? 374 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,840 The first thing that comes into my mind is... 375 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:46,040 ...my meeting with Belle Gibson in February 2015, 376 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,280 when I sat down to interview her in a cafe. 377 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,080 I had been writing about the wellness phenomenon since 2012, 378 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,680 and then, I came across Belle Gibson's claims online 379 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,840 and I was just immediately intrigued by them. 380 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,240 Because I'd written about the wellness industry 381 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,480 and had interviewed a range of cancer specialists, 382 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,320 I just was immediately suspicious 383 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,520 about her claim about this brain tumour. 384 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,080 You just don't live with something like that for five years 385 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,080 without having some kind of treatment. 386 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,840 As far as I could tell in the mainstream media 387 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,560 no-one had really thought to raise any questions 388 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,440 about this narrative that she had put forward. 389 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,720 I said to my editor, "Look, there's something that just doesn't add up. 390 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,160 "I mean, she's claiming that she's got this malignant brain tumour 391 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,640 "and four other cancers and she looks like a million dollars. 392 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,640 "I think we just dig into this a bit." 393 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,120 One of the first things I noticed 394 00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:54,040 when I began delving into Belle's story was that on social media 395 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,960 she'd had enormous attention for the past 18 months, 396 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,800 but prior to that, it was almost as if she didn't exist. 397 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,120 It appeared that she had erased 398 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:13,000 parts of her online history prior to 2014. 399 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,320 That just really intrigued me because the obvious question is, 400 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,200 why would you do that? 401 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,120 And so, I began doing intensive searches of Google 402 00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:26,720 to try and find any trace of her before 2014. 403 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:35,720 And that's when I came across this skateboard chat forum from 2009, 404 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,960 where there was this young woman called Belle Gibson, 405 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,360 who was nothing like the Belle Gibson of The Whole Pantry. 406 00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:48,960 She was this 17-year-old trash-talking skater girl. 407 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,120 And to be honest, initially, I thought, 408 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:53,160 "Well, this can't possibly be Belle Gibson." 409 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,240 You know, there must be just two Belle Gibsons 410 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,200 because apart from anything else, 411 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,880 Belle Gibson was supposedly 20 years old in 2009, not 17. 412 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:04,800 I came across this post, 413 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,720 where she talked about how she'd had this tattoo done. 414 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,000 And I suddenly realised, like, this is her, 415 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,920 because the tattoo she described 416 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,120 is the tattoo that Belle Gibson has on her arm. 417 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:18,120 Not only had Belle been lying about her age, 418 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:20,840 as Richard continued to research her past, 419 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,640 he found further worrying inconsistencies. 420 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,480 In the course of burrowing into this skateboarding chat forum, 421 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,480 I came across these posts where she claimed to be... 422 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:36,400 ...writing from a hospital bed in Hollywood Private Hospital in Perth, 423 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,160 and to be recovering from open-heart surgery. 424 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,320 And she was claiming that she'd died on the operating table 425 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,320 and been resuscitated. 426 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,880 I mean, it was supposedly written in real time, 427 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,400 while she was in hospital. 428 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,480 She was describing the chapel that she went to pray in. 429 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:58,160 And as with her Whole Pantry Facebook page, 430 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,240 the reaction from all of these people on the skate forum 431 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,880 was one of, you know, extraordinary drama and, you know, 432 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,560 "My God, Belle! Are you OK?" 433 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,040 And, you know, "That's terrible!" 434 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,480 And, you know, "Should I send you some flowers?" 435 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,560 It was kind of a mirror image of what was on the Whole Pantry page 436 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,440 but it was five years earlier and a younger incarnation of her 437 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,320 making these extraordinary, and frankly, highly unlikely claims 438 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,240 about a medical emergency. 439 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:33,360 The other thing was there was no mention on this skateboarding forum 440 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:36,520 about this malignant brain tumour that she supposedly had. 441 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,400 Richard wasn't the only person sceptical about Belle's story. 442 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,360 Online, others were raising doubts too. 443 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,400 Penguin, the publishers of Belle's book, 444 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,200 had also started to notice discrepancies in her story. 445 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,000 Marie Claire said today, um... 446 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:06,360 "You really have changed the whole market for food apps, 447 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:09,840 "Because now, it's like a trend. Everyone wants to do one." 448 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,320 I'm like, I know. 449 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,640 To prepare Belle for journalists and their probing questions, 450 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,400 they gave her media coaching. 451 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,680 What we suspect might happen now 452 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,480 is that because you are the success story of the moment, 453 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:22,840 you know what journalists do, 454 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,320 they want to start scratch, scratch, scratching away. 455 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,680 They already are. Yeah, exactly. 456 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,240 And we're concerned about that. 457 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,400 Well, that's what the publicist at Apple also said. 458 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,320 It's like, what story do you want to be? 459 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,280 So I'm going to ask you some of these questions, 460 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,520 and some of them you won't like, but... 461 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,840 ...but that's OK cos it's just us. Yeah. 462 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,080 You've said that the cancer is now in your blood and your spleen 463 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,280 and your brain and your uterus and your liver, that's really... 464 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,160 It's... it's serious now, isn't it? 465 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:52,960 Yeah. 466 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,760 Um... 467 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,440 I'm going to get tested for ovarian cancer. 468 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,320 I no longer have cancer in my uterus. 469 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,880 Woohoo! That's great news. Really amazing. 470 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,640 Um... When were you told that? 471 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,200 Um... Not long ago. 472 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,080 Yeah, that's great news. Yeah, but... 473 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,080 ...it still all feels like it sucks down there. 474 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,600 Do you think you're dying? Yeah. 475 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,120 Do you feel like you're dying? Yeah, and I'm fine with that. 476 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:24,600 And it's conflicting for a lot of people. 477 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,920 Like, I don't think I'm going to die tomorrow but my body is dying. 478 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,080 Like, of course it is. 479 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:36,240 But I don't want them to know every nitty-gritty detail. 480 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,920 After a year of following a strict clean eating diet, 481 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,200 Maxine wasn't seeing the results promised by wellness. 482 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,160 My health started deteriorating. 483 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,000 I was starting to feel a lot more run-down. 484 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,520 I had lost my period, 485 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,120 and physically, I just wasn't feeling that good any more. 486 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:07,160 I would often find myself hungry a lot of the time, 487 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,480 creating the sort of binge cycle at night. 488 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,200 I'd eat like maybe half a jar of peanut butter 489 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,960 or something like that, and then, call my mum and be like, 490 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,920 "I don't know why I can't stop eating. 491 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,560 "I don't know what's wrong with me." 492 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,440 And she'd say, "Are you thinking maybe it's the diet that you're on?" 493 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,560 I'd be like, "No, no, the diet's fine, it's me." 494 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,480 I did see a doctor. And of course, 495 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,680 one of the first things they'll say is, 496 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,000 "You need to eat more and exercise less." 497 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,320 But of course, that is the opposite of what society always tells you 498 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,440 you need to do in order to be healthy, 499 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,960 so I was like, "They're talking nonsense. 500 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,640 "Of course, I don't need to exercise less and eat more. 501 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,080 "What I'm doing is perfectly healthy. 502 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,120 "I'm taking care of my health, so that's definitely not it." 503 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:49,200 And I just ignored their advice. 504 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,680 I definitely think there was a frustration that I... 505 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,480 ...I was doing everything - 506 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,040 I was following all the rules, 507 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,360 I had the books that all these wellness influencers were selling 508 00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:04,040 that would help me transform my life. 509 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,040 And my life didn't look like that. 510 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,760 It didn't look that glamorous or exciting. 511 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,600 I just felt like a complete failure. 512 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,760 In February 2015, Richard flew to Melbourne to meet Belle, 513 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,400 who was doing interviews to publicise her new book, 514 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:22,680 The Whole Pantry. 515 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,880 There was a certain sense of anticipation 516 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,840 when I sat down opposite her at this cafe of what is she going to say 517 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,360 and how much am I going to be able to glean from her? 518 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:34,960 The thing that you first notice about Belle Gibson 519 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,080 is that she just doesn't look sick at all, 520 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,240 like she's the picture of glowing health. 521 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,440 And the second thing you notice about her is 522 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,560 she acts much younger than you expect her to act. 523 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,480 I kept thinking to myself, 524 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,160 "This is the woman who's reduced roomfuls of people to tears 525 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:55,080 "and has generated this almost messianic following online." 526 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,480 And I was sitting there thinking, 527 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,520 "I just don't find you convincing." 528 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,640 I just didn't buy it. 529 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,520 As we went on, it became clear that it was very difficult 530 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,000 to get any kind of specificity out of her. 531 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,440 You know, she would apologise - 532 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,400 her memory was affected by her medical condition. 533 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,400 The impression I got was that she thinks on her feet 534 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,240 and she shifts her position as she goes. 535 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,680 And she creates this confusion in your mind 536 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,600 as to what it is that she's saying. 537 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,160 You're trying to pin her down, but she keeps shifting position. 538 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,560 So, about halfway through the interview, 539 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,640 I framed a question, which was something along the lines of, 540 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,280 "What about these other four cancers 541 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,120 "that you were recently diagnosed with?" 542 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,960 And she started this answer that... 543 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,560 ...just seemed to go around in circles. 544 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,320 And she was talking about the difficulty she was having. 545 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,040 She was going to tell me something 546 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,040 that she hadn't said publicly before. 547 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,440 It was very difficult and upsetting for her. 548 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,400 And I was just sitting there thinking, 549 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,360 "What... what is... Where is this going? 550 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,000 "Like, what is she talking about?" 551 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,760 And she started telling me that the doctor 552 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:08,440 who diagnosed her with these other four cancers the previous year, 553 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,880 had shot through on her and she was no longer seeing him. 554 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,440 And she now had doubts about his bona fides. 555 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,760 And so I said to her, "Well, what are you telling me? 556 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,600 "Are you saying that you're now not sure... 557 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,120 "..that you've got these other four cancers?" 558 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,120 And she said, "No." 559 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,560 I was just completely stunned that she would backtrack 560 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,320 from this extraordinary claim that she'd made only seven months earlier. 561 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,600 I just walked away from that interview 562 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,440 with, really, my head spinning. 563 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,280 I remember calling my editor from the car and saying, 564 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,120 "You know, I just can't believe this has happened. 565 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,120 "Belle Gibson just recanted to me, on the record." 566 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,000 Belle had changed her story about having secondary cancers. 567 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,800 But before he could safely go to press, 568 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,680 Richard had to prove his theory that Belle never had brain cancer. 569 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,040 So, I'm at my desk one day at the office. 570 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,080 At this point, I'd been ringing just about anybody I can 571 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,440 who knows Belle Gibson, 572 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,600 and my phone rings and it's Belle Gibson on the phone. 573 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,240 I knew straight away that she was really unhappy 574 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,400 about the fact that I was digging around, as I expected she would be. 575 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,920 She, in her circuitous way, started talking about how damaging... 576 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:30,160 ...media stories can be for people and that people who are, um... 577 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:35,400 ...vulnerable can even, you know, commit suicide sometimes, 578 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,600 if stories of a damaging nature are published. 579 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,000 I just got off the phone and thought, "Oh, man!", you know, 580 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,680 "She's just sort of suggested that, if I publish this story, 581 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,200 "she's going to top herself." 582 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,680 Other journalists were on Belle's trail, too. 583 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,760 They found that she dropped out of school aged 15, 584 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:59,280 and two years later, she settled in Melbourne just before having a son. 585 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,320 They also made a shocking discovery about Belle's business. 586 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,120 Doubts were raised when she failed to deliver 587 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,080 a promised $300,000 to charity. 588 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,080 {\an8}The reason that Nick Toscano and I started looking into it 589 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,160 {\an8}was because we were tipped off. 590 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,200 We had around half a dozen people in Belle Gibson's inner circle 591 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,720 telling us that they didn't believe she was sick. 592 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,360 But that's a very difficult story for a journalist to write. 593 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,600 We don't have access to people's medical records. 594 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,520 So, we started probing her other claims 595 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,200 and these centred around her charitable donations. 596 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,520 So, you were effectively following the money? That's right. 597 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,120 The news that Belle hadn't paid the promised share of her profits 598 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,280 to charity rocked the online wellness world, 599 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,520 attracting loyal defenders and fierce critics. 600 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,720 Belle took to the internet to defend her reputation. 601 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,080 I knew we had to publish immediately, 602 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,480 we couldn't sit on what we had any more, 603 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,240 and so I went to the news desk and we got legal advice 604 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,600 and we went straight to the press that day under the headline, 605 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,440 Mega-Blogger Casts Doubt On Cancer Claims. 606 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,000 Belle's story exploded into the public sphere, 607 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,000 and as news of her cancer fraud spread fast, 608 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,800 it garnered a furious backlash. 609 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,240 Overnight, some of her most loyal fans became her biggest critics. 610 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,520 I was at my girlfriend's hair salon 611 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:27,920 and it flicked up on my social media that Belle Gibson had lied. 612 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,920 I just burst out straight away, saying, 613 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,480 "Oh, my God, Belle Gibson is a liar!" 614 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,080 I don't know, I felt betrayed and a little bit let down by her, 615 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,200 and then, the absolute mind-blowing, why the hell would you do that? 616 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,360 Why would you pretend to have cancer? 617 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:44,520 Like... 618 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:45,840 ...what the hell? 619 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,000 I felt like it made me look like an idiot. 620 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,280 When the story broke, 621 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,840 those closest to Belle were reluctant to go on the record, 622 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,480 afraid of the backlash for being associated with her. 623 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,320 Even Belle's parents didn't publicly support her. 624 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,080 Now, one of Belle's friends has agreed to speak out 625 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,120 as long as she isn't identified. 626 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,640 It extremely quickly became this very toxic story 627 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,760 and I kind of didn't want to touch it with a ten-foot pole 628 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,880 because of how toxic it appeared from day one. 629 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,520 Belle grew up in Wynnum, a working-class suburb of Brisbane. 630 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,080 She claimed to have left home at age 12, 631 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,200 spending her teens living with friends. 632 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,760 I remember the first time I ever met Belle, 633 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,400 she looked me right in the eye 634 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,320 and she really tried to connect with me very deeply. 635 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,360 For a 14-year-old girl, you know, 636 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,280 that was something that was really lovely. 637 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,400 And I definitely enjoyed my time with Belle. 638 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,720 The only catch with Belle was that you knew that 639 00:34:54,720 --> 00:34:58,920 there was nothing that she could say that you could take at face value. 640 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,040 When she came to class in an arm sling, 641 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,320 there was no chance it was actually a broken arm. 642 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,960 And, you know, the next week told us that she was a test tube baby. 643 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,400 We all kind of went, "Oh, yeah, sure. OK, Belle." 644 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:16,640 We kind of all knew from the beginning that Belle likes to lie. 645 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,800 I remember a few years ago now, opening up Facebook 646 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,160 and seeing a video and I recognised the face. 647 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,920 It was Belle talking about some app that she was creating. 648 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,560 And instantly, I kind of had alarm bells ringing 649 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,240 in the back of my mind. 650 00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:35,880 I kind of sat there going, 651 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,480 "Has she done it again but on a massive scale now?" 652 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,440 People's immediate reaction was denial. 653 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,720 This can't be real, surely not. 654 00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:51,600 And then, as I think it started to sink in, 655 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,160 that's when the doubt creeped in and people thought, 656 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,960 "OK, maybe she actually did lie." 657 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,600 It was five years ago I was diagnosed with terminal cancer. 658 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,280 I don't think I'm going to die tomorrow, but my body is dying. 659 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,960 For a person living with brain cancer, might I add, 660 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:09,600 you look incredibly healthy. 661 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:15,040 {\an8}I felt incredibly gullible that I had fallen for something 662 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,520 {\an8}that could so easily have been disproven and was disproven. 663 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,880 How could I be so stupid? 664 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,160 It's so devastating for the industry. 665 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,280 She was such an important figure. 666 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,080 It blows all trust out the water with everyone's stories. 667 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,000 I felt really disappointed in myself... 668 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,600 ...for having been tricked by her. 669 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,040 I became a lot more cynical that day. 670 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,760 It was clear that wellness was never going to be the same. 671 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:48,080 Belle disappeared, purging all traces of herself from social media. 672 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,960 A Facebook group called Belle Gibson Uncovered sprang to life, 673 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,280 where people shared stories about Belle 674 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,560 and examined her every post for inconsistencies. 675 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,840 It was driven by a lot of people 676 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,120 whose family had gone through cancer, 677 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,640 whether it be directly or indirectly, 678 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,760 and people that had lost people 679 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,480 because they didn't go through conventional treatment. 680 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:14,800 So, they were really angry. 681 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,800 They were angry about the influence that she had on people. 682 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:19,960 They blamed her. 683 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,800 A lot of people blamed her for things that had gone wrong. 684 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,080 There was a lot of pictures from her past 685 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,920 that were contradictory to the image that she was selling, you know. 686 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,320 It was, you know, images of her drinking or smoking 687 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:40,240 and not living that amazing, healthy lifestyle that she promoted. 688 00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:44,440 If only we had done that before we gave her the platform to... 689 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,520 ...be the person that she was. 690 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,040 Within two weeks of the story breaking, 691 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,760 Penguin had withdrawn Belle's book 692 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,000 and Apple had removed any mention of The Whole Pantry 693 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,720 from their website and App Store. 694 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,920 Welcome back to The Life And Lies Of Belle Gibson, 695 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,360 the woman who pretended to have cancer, 696 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,880 and to this day, still won't tell the truth 697 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,920 that she knew she didn't. 698 00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:16,600 Three months after the scandal broke, 699 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,840 Belle appeared on the Australian current affairs show, 60 Minutes. 700 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,840 You go on Instagram in 2013 - 701 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,560 "I have been healing a severe and malignant brain cancer 702 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,160 "for the past few years, with natural medicine, 703 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,000 "Gerson Therapy, and foods. 704 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,280 "It's working for me." 705 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,120 It is and if any... 706 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,600 Except you didn't have brain cancer. 707 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:40,920 No, I didn't. 708 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,960 She wasn't at all how I expected her to be. 709 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:48,600 She just came across as devoid of emotions, 710 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,120 lacking in any empathy or even recognition 711 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,040 of the people that she hurt. 712 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,000 How can we believe anything you say now? 713 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,920 Tara, I have lost everything. 714 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,720 Would you accept that you're a pathological liar? 715 00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:04,800 No. 716 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,600 I never quite could sort out my feelings about Belle Gibson, 717 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,280 because even though what she did was... 718 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,600 ...reprehensible and dangerous, 719 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,720 she personally, I thought, was a very fragile person, 720 00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:23,720 whose grip on reality was a bit tenuous. 721 00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:26,880 And so, I was constantly in this dilemma about 722 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,920 whether I felt sympathy for or I loathed her. 723 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,200 She's definitely not well because you don't... 724 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,440 A well person doesn't do what she's done and believe in her own lies. 725 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,600 But she's also highly intelligent. 726 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,240 She thinks we're all stupid. 727 00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:42,040 That's what annoys me about her. 728 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,120 She is the type of person that thinks 729 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,560 that she's smarter than the rest of us and we're all fools, 730 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,480 maybe we were there for a little bit, 731 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:55,200 and that she can do and say whatever she likes without any consequence. 732 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,320 BELLE'S FRIEND: On the internet it is so much easier 733 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:04,520 to prioritise anger than it is to prioritise compassion. 734 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,840 I see people still with so much hatred and anger 735 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,600 in their hearts at her, 736 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,760 and I kind of wish that they knew the 14-year-old Belle 737 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,760 and understood the full context of this. 738 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,840 I hope that Belle took some really hard lessons 739 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,720 and can... Not have to deal with being public enemy number one. 740 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,360 Pixie and Maxine had become friends through wellness, 741 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,800 but after years of restrictive dieting, 742 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,960 it had taken a toll on their health. 743 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,920 When I look back now on my time in wellness, 744 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,880 I had an unhealthy relationship with food. 745 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,400 It was obsessive. It was anxiety-inducing. 746 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,120 It was classic signs of orthorexia. 747 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,680 Orthorexia is an eating disorder 748 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,760 characterised by having an unsafe obsession with healthy food. 749 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,360 When I was in the midst of it, there was so much denial... Yeah. 750 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,600 ...in terms of the idea that this might actually not be helpful. 751 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,560 This is actually harming me and wasn't making me feel good. 752 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,080 No, no, I blocked that out. 753 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:11,720 I couldn't possibly face that idea. 754 00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:14,680 I would've been like, "Everything's great, everything's wonderful." 755 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,880 There was so much denial, which I guess is quite... 756 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:18,440 ...classic for disordered eating, 757 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,920 is that there is that kind of denial that can often be there. 758 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,200 Yeah, and I think it's almost disordered eating is so normalised 759 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,000 within wellness that, you know, 760 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,440 when you are so immersed within that culture, 761 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,680 in your view, there's nothing disordered about it. 762 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,480 I just wanted to have a normal uni experience 763 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,160 after years and years of being in and out of school 764 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,480 and never really having a sense of stability. 765 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,680 I just desperately needed something to cling on to for dear life. 766 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,960 Yeah. And that's what wellness presented itself as. 767 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,320 Yeah, we were vulnerable. Wellness came along and said, 768 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:49,520 "Hi, we can help." 769 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,320 When you look at our story, 770 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,000 it very much shows that wellness is seductive. 771 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,920 It is intriguing. 772 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,320 And... 773 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,280 ...the worst part about it is that you are never good enough. 774 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,880 You can never reach peak wellness. 775 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:09,360 You can never be good enough for wellness. 776 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,400 And that is to somebody who's going into that already vulnerable 777 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:14,920 and probably with low self-esteem, 778 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,040 probably not feeling too great about themselves 779 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:18,680 because of whatever's going on, 780 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,360 it just pushes you down further and just makes you feel worthless 781 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,760 and that is shit. 782 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,040 Belle was fined £230,000 for making false claims 783 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,640 about her donations to charity. 784 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,320 A fine she's never paid. 785 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,440 The people of Australia want to know why you haven't paid that fine. 786 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,840 Today, it's rumoured that she's working in a Melbourne school 787 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,040 and that she's converted to Islam. 788 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,520 As the dust settles on her story, 789 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,000 some wonder how she'd been allowed to achieve such success, 790 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,720 and if Belle was the only guilty party. 791 00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:55,360 I don't feel anger towards Belle 792 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,440 in the same way that I do towards the industry as a whole. 793 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:04,760 I feel angry at social media for creating this space 794 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,520 where misinformation can spread unchecked. 795 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:13,520 I feel angry at the publishers who gave Belle a platform 796 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,680 to profit from people's vulnerability. 797 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,920 KYLIE: You didn't even for a second question her 798 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,000 because of who supported her, who was backing her. 799 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,920 It wasn't just Apple, it was Penguin Books. 800 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,000 It was Cosmopolitan that had, 801 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,360 you know, endorsed her and stood behind her, 802 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:32,960 so I wouldn't have thought 803 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,600 it was ever my responsibility to fact-check her. 804 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,800 The biggest publishing company in the world 805 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,320 and the biggest computer company in the world had apparently 806 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,040 completely failed to do any due diligence on her claims. 807 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,400 I mean, Penguin admitted to me that they didn't really do 808 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,080 any proper fact-checking on her medical history. 809 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,360 And Apple, when I finally got someone to talk to me, 810 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,440 effectively said, well... 811 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,320 ...they didn't care about the questions that were being raised 812 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,120 about her cancer claim, as long as her app worked. 69800

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.