Original subtitles

Okay, let's see.

Alright, another new session.

Oh, come on in.

Hi, sorry.

Or Jen.

No, it's alright.

It's uh, it's your hour.

Yeah, of course.

Nice to meet you.

Penelope?

Yes, Penelope.

Brother Alliance?

Yes.

Well, have a seat.

Thank you for having us.

Are you going to record all the session?

You know, for a long time I was doing

notes by hand and this is just so much easier.

Is anyone else going to see the footage?

Oh, my session notes?

No.

No, it's private.

It goes right into my computer.

Nobody sees it.

Okay, good.

I was a little concerned there.

It's alright.

Well anyway, my name is Dr.

Penny Barber.

I've been practicing family therapy for

about five years now.

It's been my passion since forever.

Very, very pleased to be able to, you

know, work with people and just kind

of, you know, just trying to make the

world a better place a little bit.

I'm a philatelist.

I collect stamps.

And yeah, and I'm very excited meet

both of you.

Can you tell me a little bit about

yourself Penelope?

Of course, so my name is Penelope.

I'm about to start college very soon

and I'm typically very kept to myself.

I just like to water my plants.

I like to go to the beach.

I hang out with my friends a lot.

I like to go shopping.

I typically study a lot so you know for

the most part I stay home but yeah I

feel I feel like I'm a pretty simple girl.

I just like to, you know, do my typical

girly things.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, thank you for being here today.

Thank you for having us.

Elias?

Well, I'm kind of here because she

dragged me here, but I'm just about to

finish school for going to engineer.

I love playing sports all the time.

Um, and my favorite is soccer, and

yeah, I stay home, and if I'm not

focusing on school, mainly because

she's home all the time, I try to find

things to do elsewhere, but yeah,

that's how it is.

It's okay.

All right.

Well, thank you both for being here,

even if your stepsister had dragged you here.

My dad married her mom and we kind of

just like 12 years ago.

We kind of were just stuck together

since I wouldn't say stuck together

Okay, let's let's let's start Getting

into it then now be why would you say

you're here today?

So basically I wouldn't say we're stuck together.

Yes.

We're really close and you know this 12

years is a long time to be close and

join at the hip.

I would say we're very, very almost

like best friends.

We were always together.

We basically shared a bunk bed together.

So you could imagine that how that is,

you know?

We're 24-7 together.

Stop.

Okay, stop.

And you know, I'm just typically a

little concerned just because we were

always together.

We were always, you know, cooking

together, watching TV together, and

doing all these kinds of hobbies and

growing up together.

and well ever since school started, up

to class started, you've been acting

really different and you just don't,

you're just so distant, you don't

communicate with me, we don't, we're

just two different people at this point

and I just, it makes me really sad just because.

So you feel there's been a rift growing up?

Yes, a rift.

I would say we're just two completely

people at this point.

We just don't hang out together anymore.

It's just like I don't even know you

more Leah so I mean you are right we

did grow up a lot together and it was

so fun like you really did feel like a

sister to me and but you just become so

overprotective every time I get a

girlfriend you tell me this and that

and what I should or shouldn't be doing

and you always ask them all these

questions like I can't hang out with

girls because of you it's not okay I'm

not telling you what to do I am simply

simply just getting to them.

I want to make sure no one's taking

advantage of you.

I know.

It's basic duties as a bigger older sister.

You know this.

But you don't have to handle that.

Okay Alias, but you know that these

girls are just trying to take advantage

of you.

They don't have your best interests out

for you.

Do you have a girlfriend?

Well I did until she like she kept on

telling me all these things and she

broke up with me because of it.

I can't really go outside and socialize

these women because you know she's so

overprotective and it's not because of

my fault maybe they just weren't good

enough for you you know so it's their

fault not mine so i don't know why

you're putting the blame on me and i

don't know how to make her not worry so

much about me that i'm really just

trying to explore you know um are you

dating phillip i mean i did have a

boyfriend but um it didn't really lead

to anything i just I just miss our bond honestly.

I don't need anybody else at this point

like Okay, so you're you're a little

uncomfortable that he started to be in

general or the girls that he's dating

He's growing up way too fast.

He should not be dating at all

whatsoever She's so worried cuz she's

about to leave to her college and yeah,

you know all this Unsupervisioned she's

just been even more hard on me now, and

I just don't know how to I just want us

to rebuild our together because I am

going to be leaving for college really

soon and if there's no bond what am I

gonna come back to?

Do you miss anything about that closeness?

Yeah, I really did really like how much

fun we would have.

Yeah, but you don't keep that in mind anymore.

Why would you say it changed?

Do you think you just kind of grew out

of it or?

I don't know, I feel like...

You're just too for me now i feel like

that's exactly how it feels it is you

keep shutting me out it's like you have

to change and honestly if we have this

rift between us it's gonna grow even

more look look there's a secret that

i've been meaning to tell you what's

that the real reason why i broke up

with my girlfriend is that one time we

were having sex and i accidentally

moaned your name and i know what

embarrassed and mad about it and i just

didn't know how tell you like I really

do miss you a lot and I just you get so

over protective that I can't but really

like I want to have that energy with

you it's just that was interesting why

don't you ever tell me this?

I'm just too embarrassed about it like

yeah I get it.

Can I ask why you chose to be

misleading about the situation?

I don't know I'm really into you I just

don't know how to like you I'm trying

to figure out how to talk to you.

Well, I wish you would have told me

this way sooner, Alias.

Like, I mean, I don't know what else we

could do.

How does that make you feel, Penelope?

It makes me feel flattered and all, but

I just wish she told me this sooner,

you know?

Well, it makes you feel flattered?

That's an interesting response.

Could you speak about that a little bit more?

Well, I mean, me and Alias only know

each other, know we're basically always

together this is i mean i wasn't

expecting this but i guess i could say

i'm a little you know i kind of feel

the same way but it's just i feel like

it'd be considered really weird well i

mean i suppose it could be considered a

little bit strange or unusual but you

know that's not really you know who's

to say you know one person's or unusual

might just be the way things are you

know yeah you're right well i mean i

don't know how we move on forward with

this you know okay so it sounds like

there has been an attraction perhaps on

both ends for a while and elise you've

tried dating quite a bit now you've

tried dating but maybe not quite so

much yeah not so much she doesn't talk

to anyone Really she like she said she

stays home all the time and I feel like

do you want her to talk to other people

and get out more?

I mean, I don't know how to get her out

of that shell Yeah, I mean it's really

hard just because you know I've just

been used to our bond and just I never

would have thought this was gonna

change you know and instead of telling

me to do other things with like

different women like you gotta let me

know and and we could plan something again.

You know what I'm saying?

You're always busy and you're so

controlling and protective and I just.

It's not controlling.

I just want more communication between us.

But I feel like there just isn't.

He's always has something planned up

every single day and I just don't know

how else to get to him.

So you think he'd just like, how much

attention do you want?

Is it like one day a week, one day a month?

That's not enough.

i feel like we shouldn't be hanging out

at least four times a week you know

just having me a new time but i mean

you're always with all these misses and

all these girls like you don't need any

tension you shouldn't be getting any

tension from because i don't know

you're still super young i don't think

you need all of that right now all this

drama okay so do you think that four

times a week to hang out is too much

would that be something you're willing

to commit to i guess that's but you

know we're both like going to our big

schools now what do you really expect

us to do?

I mean at least before I leave you know

I mean there's ways we could

communicate and you know we could

definitely hang out sometimes in the

weekend but that is if it's you make

time for us you know and I don't know

if I could trust that out of him

because he says one thing and he's

gonna jump to another.

So hypothetically moving forward if the

two of you were to maybe spend not as

much time together but that lesser time

was of a more intense quality.

Yeah.

But it just feels like we don't have

anything in common anymore.

Great because we, I don't know, I feel

like we're kind of just away from each other.

Yeah, you really like music.

I really just like to know what to do.

So when you're when you're talking

about spending time together like

hanging out like four times a week,

what would you want to do?

You mentioned that you like to shop and

you know you're into taking care of

your plants and you know girls and I

mean we used to watch all our movies together.

We to like you know bake things

together and you know also shop but we

just have two totally different vibes

now so are you interested in those kind

of things like baking and shopping and

not more traditionally feminine

activities I guess I mean I don't know

you don't have to say yes if you're not

you can say no and if you are you can

say yes you could give it a shot every

once in a Well, are you really going to

give it a shot as a thing?

Because you're going to say that you

will and you're going to make up an

excuse to get out of it.

Is another thing.

We could work something out and, I

don't know, we find a new place

together and, well, what do you...

Are the two of you familiar with

something called a Rorschach test?

I don't think so.

No?

Maybe?

Possibly.

What is that?

to sort of access your own subconscious

and you communicate that back to a

therapist like myself and it's real easy.

It's basically like a game except

there's no way to lose.

There's no wrong answers.

Specifically what it is is a series of

cards that have images on them.

That's cool, huh?

And I would show you one and you would

tell me what it makes you think about.

It can be anything, you know, people

see all kinds of these images.

You can see a stingray, a butterfly,

anything really.

Okay.

Yeah, it's kind of fun, right?

You want to give it a shot?

Yeah, you can try it.

It's like a mental exercise, I guess.

Okay, now let's start with you.

Okay.

I'm going to show you an and again, no

wrong answers, you just tell me what

you see.

Okay.

That looks like a rabbit.

A rabbit?

I think so.

Okay.

I can see that.

Interesting.

Let's do three with you.

First three right here, and then I'm

going to switch to your brother.

I feel like that looks like a dog.

Like a dog?

Okay.

Rabbit, the dog,

that looks like a bug, maybe like a

large beetle, a large beetle, a bug.

Interesting.

So we have little animals.

Oh yeah.

Elias, are you ready?

Okay.

Let's do a few with you.

Got this one right here.

Looks like cat.

A cat?

I can do that.

A cat.

Just anything that comes to mind.

There's no wrong answer.

Does it look like a splatter?

Yeah, it looks like two rodents facing

each other.

Two rodents facing each other.

And do one more here.

Two people hugging?

Two people hugging.

Interesting.

It's very interesting.

So I'm actually really glad we did that.

That was very informative to me.

Thank you both for participating in it.

What did you get out of that test?

A lot of your answers were sort of

animalistic and seemed to be coming

directly from the ego which so beyond

family therapy one of the things that I

do a lot of is sex therapy and those

are kind of more the answers that I

would have expected in one of those sessions.

Well a lot of your your issues do seem

have to do with sexual control.

It's sort of determining whom your

brother can date, control of the self,

you mentioned you're not dating currently.

Yeah, well, I mean that is an

interesting take, but I mean, you're my

stepbrother, so I feel like that is, I

don't want you to think a certain way

because of that.

Of course not.

I mean, We're not related, you know.

Well, I guess that's true, but...

Going back to Elias' little mishap in

the bedroom with maybe using the wrong

name when addressing his lover, you

were very accepting of that when he

first brought it up.

Yeah, I mean, we did have an incident

before a while back if you'd be more

open to talk about it.

Yeah, sure would incidentally.

It's a very safe space.

So, I mean, we shared a bunk bed when

we were much younger, and I did catch him.

When you were much younger, like 18?

Yeah, 18, and we were definitely, you

know, we're going to bed, and I heard

some noises at night, and I thought

someone was, you know, breaking in, or

I went to go check, because I was at

the top bunk, and I went down the

bottom bunk and I saw Elias here doing

something under the covers and I

thought he was just maybe playing a

video game or maybe doing puzzles but

he wasn't he was not and I think that

was an incident that probably made us

disperse from each other a bit more and

he's been very uncomfortable with me

ever since then Because I'm embarrassed.

I didn't know what to say to you.

Are we talking about masturbation?

Yeah.

It was a very...

not traumatic, but it was very a

strange feeling for both of us.

We didn't know how to come forward from that.

And I think that's when you start

acting super rebellious towards me.

And you start, you know, making excuses

from even seeing me or looking me in

the eye to go, you know, do stuff together.

and I was just, I was a bit confused

from that, Aliyah, so I don't know.

Well, you, since we shared a room for

so long, I kind of always saw your

panties and made me feel some type of

way when you, you know, I wait for you

to change and you, I kind of just got a

little excited.

I mean, it's understandable.

We're the opposite sex, so I'm not

gonna blame you on that, but, you know,

I feel like there definitely could have

been better ways to to each other

besides our differences you know I feel

like we definitely could have talked

about that more but I mean who am I to

say he's in the wrong you know because

I also haven't been very communicative

myself I kind of have a confession to

make to you ever since that incident

happened I kind of have been myself you

know late at night then you know it's

okay you can say it Yeah, I've been

kind of touching myself a bit, you

know, because of that and I just didn't

know how to tell anybody, I never told

anybody, it's been kind of a secret and

I figured out whenever I would do that,

that at the same time while I was doing

it, he was also masturbating and

whenever I would find out he was

masturbating at times, I would go have

to excuse myself and go to my bedroom

and go masturbate as well because it

was Such a strange feeling, I just, I

don't know, I wanted to somehow feel

close to you at the same time from your

experiences, so yeah.

So there is a lot of pent up sexual

frustration, it sounds like.

Would you agree?

Is that an accurate assessment?

I mean, is it wrong to confess this?

Oh, there's a camera.

Well, I mean, it's just like, it's just

going into my files, it's just notes.

Okay.

Well, yeah, I guess it's kind of like

on both ends.

I guess it's safe to say we both have

uh There's some sexual tension and attraction.

Yeah, I guess a little bit here and

there, you know It's interesting Why

does that make you feel knowing that

your sister is feeling that way?

Makes me kind of shocked.

You could have told me this too, and we

could have re-consorted this together

You know, we can be comfortable with

each other.

I guess we both have a really large

wall built up just from being scared

about what the other one's gonna say.

So so embarrassing for me to yeah even

right now it's a bit humiliating but I

mean I feel like it had to get off our

chest anyway one way or another so I

just don't know how to move forward

from here hearing about all this.

Well before we were talking about maybe

spending some more time together and

Penelope you said that you were open to

maybe a shorter but more intense

interview with your brother to get the

emotional fix that you need?

Yeah, exactly.

I would love some kind of bond between

us so we could just spend more time

together before I leave or also have

something to come back to when I do,

you know?

How do you two feel about mutual masturbation?

What does that mean specifically?

Well, you know, simply basically we're

already doing it you would be pleasing

yourselves but together more openly

sounds like you two are still sharing a

room or until she leaves we kind of

just yeah well you know it doesn't have

to be there if you two have privacy in

other rooms of the house you can

certainly explore there.

You know, if you two are fighting a

sort of closeness, I can see that

translating to fighting each other when

really maybe you're fighting against

some outdated mores that aren't

applicable to your specific situation.

And again, it sounds like you're

already practicing mutual masturbation

just with that wall between the two of

you and I think a really great way to

break down the wall between you two

when it comes to communication is to

break down that wall when it comes to

sexual expression.

We wouldn't really even be changing

that much actually you know it would

just be an awareness which sounds like

we've already breached.

Do you mean like masturbating like in

the same room?

Like knowingly with each other?

Yeah together or you know one of you at

a whoever feels moved to do so.

When's the last time that the two of

you saw each other naked?

That was a long time ago.

I feel like since we've been growing

up, I don't think we've done that.

Maybe just you share a list, but that

was just, you know, for changing reasons.

Yeah.

And she takes forever to change in the

room, so.

Yeah, so he kind of has to go change elsewhere.

How would you two feel about You're

just kind of like exposing yourselves

now, maybe getting naked.

If you're cool with it, I feel like we

should trust her.

I mean, as long as you're okay with it

too, I mean, maybe I could possibly get

more comfortable with that.

Yeah.

I think it's worth a shot.

You know?

Okay, well.

And if it doesn't work, we can move on

to something else.

And if it does work, great.

Right?

Okay, yeah.

I'm okay with it if you're okay with it

I am it's just are you okay with it

I'll work with it yes There you go.

Take your shirt off.

I just, I don't know, I feel really, I

feel like it's going to be really

embarrassing, you know, as a girl.

It's not really a big deal, you know,

it's just, it's just skin.

Oh, are you sure about that?

I mean, I don't know if we're supposed

to be seeing all of it.

You know, whatever horrible thing was

going to happen has already happened.

It's fine.

Okay I mean I guess it does make you

feel a little bit more comfortable.

Oh does it?

Not too vulnerable I guess.

Oh my god I love your bra that's so pretty.

Yeah thank you.

Do I have to take it off too?

Although it is sheer I would say you

know your brother's not wearing a bra

so I would say it's just fair.

You sure?

Yes.

I'm pretty sure.

And if you don't like it you can always

just put it back on.

I guess this is his first time seeing

me like this.

We can go to the next room now.

Do you both want to stand up?

Okay.

It feels so funny to do it in front of

somebody else, you know.

It's something I haven't seen before.

It's really great for you and your

brother to be more intimate.

I guess I'll take these off now.

Well, this is ready to go.

Sorry.

Okay.

That's a perfectly natural response.

Yeah.

And there we go.

Thank you.

It just feels a little strange still,

you know.

What should we do now?

Well, can the two of you stand facing

each other for me?

Okay.

Sorry, this might be weird.

That's great.

Elias, can I ask you to put your hands

down at your side?

Good.

I want you both to look at each other's eyes.

Nice two breaths.

Good.

Now, Albie.

Yeah?

I would like you to tell your brother

directly what it is that you want from him.

I guess I just want it to be more close

to you, you know, whatever it is to be

more close so I'll do it.

You know?

That's really sweet.

Can you thank your sister for sharing

with you?

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Elias, is there something you want to

say to your sister maybe about what

you're hoping for, what you want?

I'd love for us to have fun making too

and find out ways to make each other

have fun and feel good.

Yeah, definitely.

I want that too.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

You're just kind of being open to it

and sharing.

Yeah, it does feel really nice.

How do you two feel about maybe trying

some of that mutual masturbation play

that we talked about?

Oh, like right here?

Right now?

Yeah, have a seat.

Okay.

What do you like?

I'm curious as you are.

We could try.

I mean, I don't know if it's going to

be a little weird at first.

I don't mind.

The purpose of therapy is to sort of

identify problems and then come up with

cognitive and behavioral responses to

address those issues and then to

implement them.

And I feel like we're coming a really

long way and we can always adjust.

We're right at that last step and we're

going to try implementing these

behaviors and see how it feels, how it works.

Yeah, definitely.

I feel like it'd be a good exercise,

wouldn't it?

I feel like I'm just a little nervous

still, you know?

Well, is there anything that you think

of that would make you feel less nervous?

I mean, it doesn't make me feel as

nervous when you're doing it, too.

So I feel like it's a bit of a comfort, yeah.

I know it's okay to relax.

It's okay to put your arms around each other.

It's okay to get comfortable.

It does feel nice.

It actually feels way better doing it

with you.

Yeah, I feel like we're feeling a bit

more close to each other.

I want you to just like both relax,

enjoy it.

Think about being comfortable sharing

yourselves completely.

Be a little bit closer.

And I'll be being very tolerant of the

way you're letting her touch your

breasts a little bit.

Does that feel alright?

Is that pleasant for you as well?

Yeah, it does feel very nice.

Can I tell your brother that you

appreciate it, that you're enjoying it,

that it's okay that he's doing it?

Thank you for enjoying this moment with me.

Of course, thank you.

Unless there's anything you'd like to

say to your sister, she's really

opening up.

Thank you for being willing to do this

with me.

Do you feel like we're getting really closer?

Yeah, definitely.

I feel like this might have been

something missing.

It's so beautiful.

I'm glad that you two are feeling more comfortable.

Yeah.

I hope that you'll get more comfortable

being on camera.