All language subtitles for Beltracchi – Die Kunst der Fälschung 2014
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1
00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,400
Isn't the yellow wonderful?
I could lick it up.
2
00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:11,760
Wonderful.
3
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:22,560
Nice.
4
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,720
It was extremely hard to take.
5
00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:35,440
HENRIK HANSTEIN
AUCTIONEER
6
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,400
I was damn angry at Mr. Beltracchi.
7
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:43,960
I wasn't happy with the Cologne verdict.
I would've preferred Sharia law.
8
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,200
JAMES ROUNDELL
THE SOCIETY OF LONDON ART DEALERS
9
00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,920
MR. & MRS. OMMESLAGHE
ART COLLECTORS
10
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,560
He should be sent to prison
for 10, 15 years at least.
11
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,520
SOFIA KOMAROVA
GALLERY MANAGER
12
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:40,880
Maybe a bit greedy? He made,
as far as we know, several million Euros.
13
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,200
Maybe a bit greedy.
14
00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,920
But definitely talented and sensitive.
15
00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,800
NIKLAS MAAK
ART CRITIC
16
00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,360
It's a remarkable achievement,
17
00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,000
that one man, not a large team,
managed to outsmart
18
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,760
the most powerful and knowledgeable
players in the international art world.
19
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:21,520
One after the other.
20
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,280
Like a bad cowboy film.
21
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:28,600
The cowboy mows down
one sheriff after the next.
22
00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:33,320
What happened in the Beltracchi case
is rare.
23
00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,760
RENÃ ALLONGE
CHIEF POLICE DETECTIVE
24
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,720
It was a real challenge
to provide evidence,
25
00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:07,200
which speaks for
the quality of his forgeries.
26
00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,120
Max Ernst wouldn't have been amused.
27
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,120
He was the kind of guy...
I never met him,
28
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,520
but from seeing him
in photos and videos,
29
00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,040
I don't think he would've found it funny.
He would've said,
30
00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:53,240
"Lock him up!"
31
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:55,360
Maybe.
32
00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,960
BELTRACCHI - THE ART OF FORGERY
33
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,840
This is the Bec d'Aigle
34
00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:18,960
in La Ciotat.
35
00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,600
The Fauvists painted it a lot
around the turn of the century.
36
00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,480
I've painted it several times.
37
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,480
Friesz and Braque painted here together.
38
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,320
The same landscapes exist
39
00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,680
by both painters.
40
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,560
They stood here, the two of them,
41
00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,600
just imagine,
42
00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,520
probably next to one another,
43
00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:50,480
and painted it.
44
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,360
For me, Friesz was a greater
Fauvist painter than Braque
45
00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:02,400
and got pricier due to the rich colors.
46
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,280
They exude so much life.
Sun, the south, it's all there.
47
00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,040
Of course,
the market also sets the prices.
48
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,160
That's for sure.
49
00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,080
Here you can put yourself in their place.
50
00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,640
1905:
They had good times ahead of them.
51
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,080
I can see that now with hindsight.
52
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,720
I know that in 1905
they still have nine years until the war.
53
00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,960
That's when
the bad times started for them.
54
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:42,080
I've often wondered
if I'd prefer to have lived at that time.
55
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:47,480
But knowing what was yet to come,
the First and Second World Wars,
56
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,000
then I think, "No thanks."
57
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:59,440
That was totally new when they came here
to paint this kind of picture.
58
00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,440
No one had ever done it before.
59
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,800
Really fantastic.
60
00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,960
I would've liked to do it too.
61
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,680
The edges are very clean.
The canvas is a bit thin.
62
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,280
There's hardly any paint left
except for the sky.
63
00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,000
He really slapped on the white.
You can see how it's cracked.
64
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:58,920
This is typical of early cracking.
Technically, his work was very poor.
65
00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,800
The undercoat
probably had a lot of white lead,
66
00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,640
which is why it tore early.
67
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:12,920
It's nice.
68
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,240
- Is it from Barcelona?
- Yes, sir.
69
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,280
- From the 20s.
- I think so. Or the early 30s.
70
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,160
It has a good stretcher frame.
Nice and ashy.
71
00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:38,120
- Is it expensive?
- No, 50 Euros.
72
00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,480
50 Euros? What a bargain.
73
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:42,520
- Here.
- Thanks.
74
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,920
No, thank you.
75
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,240
Goodbye.
76
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,200
BELTRACCHI STUDIO
(FRANCE)
77
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,880
Here's what we bought.
78
00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,640
I'll put them on the table.
79
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,120
I'll get rid of the...
80
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,320
Max Ernst box.
81
00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,840
Make some space.
82
00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:35,240
Let's see what beauties we bought.
83
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,480
Why did we buy this?
84
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,760
Firstly, most importantly,
look at the back.
85
00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:58,520
How does it look?
How old is the stretcher frame?
86
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,520
Then we have this wonderful
87
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,320
stamp from an art dealer
88
00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:08,640
in Barcelona.
89
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:15,040
I googled it and found out
they existed around 1920.
90
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,080
Then the keys.
91
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,840
All excellent. Not many holes.
92
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,240
Just one small one.
That can be restored later.
93
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,360
And a bit dusty.
94
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,120
This was my home.
95
00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,760
But I still
wouldn't want to come back here.
96
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,880
And we wanted to sell it anyway,
it's much too big.
97
00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:29,480
We had a wonderful time here
with our children and friends.
98
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,680
But it's too big for the two of us.
99
00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:40,160
Every day I spend here, I feel lucky,
100
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,280
and it'll be terrible when we leave,
101
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,280
knowing we'll be in jail three days later.
102
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:55,680
Will you paint in prison?
103
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:57,800
Yes, of course.
104
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,880
Mostly drawings, I guess.
105
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,160
Of fellow inmates.
106
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,720
I also have a studio in Cologne.
107
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,360
I can work there, it always rains.
108
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,840
Here it's harder to work.
109
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:21,800
Great weather, nice parks,
110
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:24,920
nice area...
111
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,560
There are too many distractions.
112
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,480
They kept looking for this:
titanium white.
113
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,000
Titanium white, completely empty.
114
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,160
We always thought you bought art,
115
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,000
and then sold it.
116
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,920
Like on the stock exchange:
you sold it for a lot and bought it cheap.
117
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,320
The version I had
118
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,920
was that you invested
in ocular prosthetics in the States.
119
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,840
- Nice, I never heard that one.
- That's right, ocular prosthetics .
120
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:30,600
Jacques told me that.
121
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,120
I left as an artist and returned as...
122
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,640
...as Robin Hood.
123
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:49,960
No, he returned as some kind of
artistic genius. Definitely.
124
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,200
He returned as an extraordinary artist.
125
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,360
But in principle...
126
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,280
- It's not good.
- It's not good,
127
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,000
but in reality, it is admirable.
128
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:04,720
Respect.
129
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,120
And in principle, too.
130
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,800
If I were the buyers, I wouldn't have said
anything about the fakes.
131
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:15,880
I would've kept my art and waited.
132
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,040
- Sell it to the neighbors.
- Exactly.
133
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,000
That's very French.
134
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:34,040
We're being forced to sell the house,
but if we can,
135
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,480
we'll definitely come back.
136
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,400
By foot, in a camper, by boat, who knows?
137
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,000
Who knows?
138
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,600
I'm setting up
a room for you in our basement.
139
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,000
In the basement? I can't live there.
Too much like a prison.
140
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:04,360
BELTRACCHI STUDIO
(GERMANY)
141
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:13,160
What'll that be?
142
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,160
HENRY KEAZOR
ART HISTORIAN
143
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:20,800
We started that in France.
In winter, when I was still allowed out.
144
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,520
That'll be the view down by La Ciotat.
145
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,640
On the Côte d'Azur, near Marseille.
146
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,040
That's Ãmile-Othon Friesz's view.
147
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,360
1907. And that's the same view
148
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,360
by Braque.
149
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:49,240
- How did you get into forging paintings?
- You can sit down. Take a stool.
150
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,480
This thing is driving me crazy.
151
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,880
How did I get started?
152
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:01,960
Well,
153
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,120
I took my time, bit by bit. Not overnight.
154
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,360
I never studied painting, either.
155
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,440
Just illustration,
graphic arts, photography,
156
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:18,640
all that stuff.
157
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:21,920
One question:
158
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,240
When does it become a forgery?
159
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,480
If I were to sign it,
160
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,400
then it'd be a forgery.
161
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:36,080
- The intention alone isn't enough?
- No, of course not.
162
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:40,280
- Want to see? I'll sign it for you.
- OK. - Blind!
163
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,600
- That's not necessary.
- Without the original.
164
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,800
Without having the signature
in front of me. From memory.
165
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,200
What's the guy's name again?
Ãmile-Othon Friesz.
166
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:58,560
"Ã."
167
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,040
There's so little space.
168
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,480
This is something I enjoy doing.
169
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:49,040
There's nothing I couldn't paint.
I think I could paint anything.
170
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:54,640
- You're pretty self-confident.
- What do you mean? I can. It's my job.
171
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:56,720
It's not self-confidence.
172
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,720
Other painters might not make that claim.
173
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:01,920
- But I can.
- Anything?
174
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,640
- Vermeer?
- Him, too.
175
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,920
- Rembrandt?
- Any of his.
176
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,640
- Leonardo?
- Of course. He's not difficult.
177
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,720
- Not at all?
- I don't find him difficult. Not at all.
178
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,840
It's not just the technical side.
179
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,600
You said you don't copy paintings,
but get inside the painter's head.
180
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,600
- Sure. I could paint a new Leonardo.
- New?
181
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,480
Yes, a new one. So what?
182
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,080
- Have you seen your work in a catalog?
- Yes.
183
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,840
How did you feel when someone said
it's definitely a Campendonk,
184
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,840
- and one of his best?
- I thought, "He's right."
185
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,840
- But it's not a Campendonk.
- Come on.
186
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,520
So what?
187
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,920
- It's still beautiful.
- True. But not a Campendonk.
188
00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:53,080
And the damage to
art history and the author?
189
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,640
You and your "damage to art history"...
190
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,080
Yes. If I imagine that happening to me...
191
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,280
I write a catalog or article on a painting
and someone says,
192
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,120
"That's a Beltracchi, not a Magritte,"
I'd be pretty annoyed.
193
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,520
- If you write a catalog of works...
- Yes?
194
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,080
...bring it to me first.
195
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,000
Have you faked Poussins or Carraccis?
196
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,640
I knew that was coming.
197
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,480
I've done drawings by old masters.
198
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,120
Drawings?
199
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:51,400
Sadly, in the art world,
there are more people
200
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,960
who know how to make money
201
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,560
than there are works of art.
202
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,160
There's a surplus
of financial interests.
203
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,280
And enormous sums of money
whirling around.
204
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,320
The record prices for art
are broken every year.
205
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,760
There's an inherent market logic
206
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,560
that penalizes depreciation,
criticism and doubt,
207
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,320
and rewards appreciation, euphoria,
and calling something a masterpiece.
208
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,080
If someone has a painting,
and asks, "Could it be a Derain?"
209
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,040
the expert will say,
210
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:43,760
"It's a Derain."
211
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:49,440
The auctioneer's excited. He can earn
millions from the masterpiece at auction.
212
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,760
The expert pockets a large commission.
213
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,040
The vendor makes money,
214
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,200
and the buyer is excited to see
a Derain reappear on the market.
215
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:05,080
None of the people involved
in this system want it to be a fake.
216
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,960
This is a Jawlensky.
217
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,480
Andy Warhol did portraits from Polaroids,
218
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,120
and this is a woman called
Laura de Coppet,
219
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,120
who posed for this picture.
220
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,640
This one is a Renoir.
221
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,200
A portrait of a mistress,
222
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,720
the last portrait he did
of one of his mistresses.
223
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,080
I especially like the Sam Francis.
224
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,400
- And you?
- I like the Renoir.
225
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,160
- This is a...
- Matisse.
226
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,040
They're Japanese objects.
227
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,720
I don't think they clash
with the Matisse...
228
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,400
I think they fit well.
229
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,840
Now look at this.
230
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,440
That's where the Campendonk was.
Now it's a Magritte.
231
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,240
Not as nice.
232
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,320
MR. & MRS. OMMESLAGHE
ART COLLECTORS
233
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:09,240
I lived in the country as a child and this
cow symbolized the countryside for me.
234
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,440
So it reminded me of my childhood.
235
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,440
It was so colorful.
236
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,360
I really loved that painting.
237
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,840
When you saw
that you'd given me a poisoned gift...
238
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,880
Not for the first time.
239
00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:46,120
We'll cut that out.
240
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,640
Definitely.
241
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,960
My husband is drunk.
242
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,440
All that fake jewelry.
243
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,400
Stop it, Bernard.
244
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,880
Because it's a present
245
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,000
that you gave me yourself,
and because you're a sentimental man,
246
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,480
what did you think?
247
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,280
Did you say to yourself:
"That was a bad present"?
248
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,840
I was unlucky.
249
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,240
He thought:
250
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,320
"Bad luck for her."
251
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,760
No, I said,
it always happens to the same people.
252
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,400
That's true.
253
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:35,400
However, I got a refund
and I bought another present.
254
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,360
All this here is our joint property.
255
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,640
- We don't make lists or anything.
- Yes.
256
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,800
But it was still my painting.
257
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,280
If I had kept the painting,
I would've hung it in my bedroom
258
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,120
or walk-in closet. In a place
259
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,040
where there are photos
and things like that.
260
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,640
Because it's no longer genuine.
261
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,320
- It's no longer a work of art.
- It's a decorative object.
262
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,520
It's decoration.
263
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,480
It has some fibers on the back.
264
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,800
Synthetic fiber.
265
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,160
They're fluorescent, see?
266
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:33,960
Now the edges.
267
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,000
Also white lead.
268
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,840
It has a modern undercoat
that reflects strongly.
269
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,840
Also excellent.
270
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,080
It's easy to see
because the layers are so thin.
271
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,040
I'll start with this one.
It's the most promising.
272
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,440
I can remove the paint,
and work on it right away.
273
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,520
There.
274
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,760
Now the paint's off.
275
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,760
The painter I want to do here...
276
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,880
had a painting school in Paris:
Marie Vassilieff.
277
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,840
I've never painted her work,
but she was high on my list at one point.
278
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,080
I'd planned to do it.
279
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,320
It's from 1913.
280
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:36,240
She's a good one to do. There are big gaps
in the cataloging of her work,
281
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,480
so she's a good candidate.
282
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,640
I'll paint a village view in this style.
283
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,360
The elements I have
284
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,360
on my canvas
285
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,440
after stripping the paint,
these lines here...
286
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,200
I'll integrate them into the painting.
287
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,520
And the thicker paint that's still here
288
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,040
will also be integrated.
289
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:14,240
It'll disappear as I paint on it.
It won't be conspicuous anymore.
290
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,840
Painting was never special to me.
291
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,520
In our family, it was like
brushing your teeth. We all did it.
292
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,240
It didn't have the holiness,
293
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,040
like with many artists,
294
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,040
who use their paintings,
their work or occupation,
295
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,200
and make a big deal of it.
I never did that.
296
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,920
I just had fun painting.
297
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,520
I lived with it. It was everyday life.
For my father too.
298
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,080
He never learned
proper figurative drawing.
299
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,920
He learned to restore frescoes,
300
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,480
to paint fake marble,
gilding, fake wood...
301
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,600
Everything you do in a church.
302
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,920
IN LOYAL COMRADESHIP
303
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,280
Whenever he made copies of old masters,
304
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,760
he always asked me, "Have a look at this."
305
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,200
He couldn't paint people.
306
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,360
The first time, that was 1965,
307
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,480
I was allowed to use his paints
to copy a Picasso:
308
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,000
Mother and Child from the Blue Period.
309
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,840
But I didn't copy it,
310
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,840
instead I did a different version, because
I didn't like it. It was too dismal.
311
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,240
I left out the cape,
312
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,120
and made it all a bit nicer.
313
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,840
Then he stopped painting for a while.
314
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,440
He just didn't feel like it anymore.
315
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,880
Because if he copied something,
316
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,280
he worked on it for weeks.
317
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,320
Meticulously.
318
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,960
That's why I still feel that
319
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,240
it's my father's fault I became a forger.
320
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,760
It all started with
321
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,720
selling at flea markets,
322
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,320
when I was still a student.
I sold paintings there.
323
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,320
I noticed I had an eye
for which paintings were good.
324
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,480
I bought them too, from all centuries.
325
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:36,720
I learned a lot, of course,
326
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,800
about the different styles and eras,
327
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,280
how, what and where things developed.
328
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,440
That's the best way to learn:
329
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,400
Find something, buy and restore it.
I restored paintings too.
330
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,040
Then resold them.
331
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,480
I did that a few years.
332
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,960
It went well. It was exciting.
333
00:35:58,240 --> 00:35:59,960
Really exciting.
334
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:04,240
Then I realized
335
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:11,440
if I had a painting of a winter scene,
the dealers, e.g. Drouot in Paris, said,
336
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:15,400
"If there were characters in the picture,
337
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,320
and a bit of action,
338
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,640
you could get much more money for it,
339
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,320
and it'd be easier to sell."
340
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,680
The problem with that was
that some of them
341
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,200
were painted so abysmally.
342
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,200
I could only add figures
while keeping to the style.
343
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,120
The dealers came and said,
"It's painted badly.
344
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,320
It's only worth 1,500."
345
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,560
So I got annoyed.
346
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,680
Then I thought to myself,
"If that's the way it is...
347
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,080
why don't you paint them from scratch?"
348
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,840
I'll make the one breast
349
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,600
into a little tree.
350
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,320
And I'll make the second breast
into a house.
351
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,160
Voilà .
352
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:36,400
Now she's gone.
353
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:46,960
It's really dark.
354
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:10,800
Now...
355
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,680
You have to stop at some point
or you'll paint it to death.
356
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,840
Sometimes when you see your own painting
in a museum you think,
357
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,960
"Damn, I'm in all these museums,
358
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,520
and no one knows it's mine."
359
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,240
Sure, anyone would think that,
but it doesn't matter.
360
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:09,320
The panel is incredibly hot.
361
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,400
The surface reaches 400 degrees.
362
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,760
You have to be very careful.
363
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,920
They're the supports.
364
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:25,160
Now we put the painting on them.
365
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,000
Normally, for an oil painting,
when the paint's quite thick,
366
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,160
it needs six to twelve months to dry.
367
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,320
Then it's dry, old-looking,
and the fluorescence is about right.
368
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:45,960
Then you have to rework it.
You wait and see.
369
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,440
Done.
370
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,240
The open prison arrangement
371
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,440
gives us the chance to work together.
372
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:12,280
It's great that we're allowed
to work together outside of prison.
373
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,440
My cell neighbor only sees his wife
two or three times a week.
374
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:19,560
Because he works somewhere else.
375
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:21,920
But we work together.
376
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,880
We arrive at the studio
together in the morning.
377
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:31,520
We can have breakfast and work together
all day. It's a real privilege.
378
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,360
In the evening,
379
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,360
we separate.
380
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,760
From the highway exit
where we separate,
381
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,120
it's all mechanical: down the highway,
hand in papers at prison,
382
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,240
hand over phone, get key in reception,
383
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,160
into my cell.
384
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,320
Go to bed,
switch off the light and the day's over.
385
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,680
Life is over.
386
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,520
If I'd known before
387
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,000
what was in store for me,
I never would've done it.
388
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,640
Sure, if she'd never met me,
389
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,240
she never would've been put in jail.
390
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,400
But she also wouldn't have lived
the last 20 years like she did.
391
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:28,400
Now I'm just...
I'll just paint the tattoos a bit.
392
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,160
So that...
393
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:37,760
- Get a tattoo machine and tattoo me.
- Forget it. I don't have time for that.
394
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:41,920
- Find time.
- Imagine if I did that.
395
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,000
With my reputation,
I'd have loads of customers.
396
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:47,960
But fewer forgeries.
397
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,320
I don't do forgeries anymore.
398
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,280
But... many people
would want me to tattoo them.
399
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,000
Then art dealers would peel off their skin
400
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:02,200
after they die.
401
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,640
- To make cash?
- Sure.
402
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,520
They'd stretch out the skin and sell it...
403
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,920
- I'd make a lampshade out of it.
- ...as a painting.
404
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:18,160
There's a story from Modigliani,
a French painter, who...
405
00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:21,720
tattooed someone's back.
406
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:31,200
I'll put one of my falling angels on you.
407
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,920
I find the tombstones
on your back a bit odd.
408
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:42,320
- If you die first, you'll get one too.
- I won't die first.
409
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:45,680
A fast and furious life
is better than a long and boring one.
410
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,640
Long and furious is even better.
411
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,200
Like my life.
412
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,840
Now, wait. I think the position...
Can you turn a bit?
413
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,680
A bit more. Exactly.
414
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,200
He told me about his job
415
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,520
after just three days, to tell the truth.
416
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,840
Of course,
I was a bit shocked and astonished.
417
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,840
You rarely meet people
who do that kind of thing,
418
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,520
but it is his occupation.
419
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,800
It's his way, his life and...
420
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:30,760
not just a way to earn a living,
but his way of life.
421
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,600
You could say it's his calling,
if forgery can be termed a "calling".
422
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:40,840
It was so set in stone.
I couldn't have changed anything.
423
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:47,240
To be honest, I didn't want
to change or dissuade him.
424
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,400
I found what he did
incredibly interesting.
425
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:51,840
Skilled.
426
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,600
And sometimes,
I know I shouldn't say this: funny.
427
00:43:57,720 --> 00:43:59,800
It was also fun
428
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:04,040
to follow the whole story
and see some of the results.
429
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,760
To finally be with someone
430
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,560
who didn't recognize the boundaries
431
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,920
people had built around me.
432
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,960
He saw no reason to accept any boundaries,
he still doesn't and never will.
433
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:55,200
Show me your picture.
434
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,960
Time to take it out.
435
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,760
Here's the beauty, see it?
436
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:58,920
Now...
437
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:01,720
Firstly...
438
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,360
The bottom edge of the canvas frame...
439
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:18,840
The dust.
440
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,400
The flakes of dust.
441
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,840
Now I stuff them down deep.
442
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,360
In the old paintings,
if you look from the front,
443
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,600
you can feel lumps if you touch it.
444
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,800
You can feel some kind of dirt,
where the dust has collected.
445
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,120
Now we have the original
446
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,160
Barcelona dirt from 1915.
447
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,240
Fantastic.
448
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,240
Now the painting's finished.
449
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:08,280
Apart from varnishing.
450
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,040
Done.
451
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:35,640
It has to dry.
452
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,920
Now it's smoother. Wonderful.
453
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,160
It's good now. But it's still wet.
454
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:51,960
It's better now.
The canvas doesn't have the bulges anymore
455
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,000
that come from the drying.
456
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,920
It doesn't smell of paint. Not at all.
Nor of the oven.
457
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:06,080
Normally now you'd have to...
If you wanted to do it perfectly,
458
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,320
you'd have to pack it in a big box,
459
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,360
burn a few hundred cigarettes,
460
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:17,200
and let the fumes go into the box.
461
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:21,560
Or hang it up in a bar for half a year.
462
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,640
Back when you could still smoke in bars.
463
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,280
Then you'd have the right smell.
464
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,560
Paintings smell of the room
they were hanging in.
465
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:38,280
I sometimes imagined
I could tell from the smell
466
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,400
whether a painting had been hanging
in Belgium, Germany or wherever.
467
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,000
They just smell different.
468
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,000
I've never sold a painting myself.
469
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:48,560
Not personally.
470
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,320
I found it very difficult at first
471
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,920
to go to customers and experts.
472
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,200
There were times...
473
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:09,760
when I couldn't deliver a painting.
474
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,080
I just couldn't do it.
475
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,760
I lost my nerve and tried somehow
476
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,400
to let it disappear.
477
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:24,480
But after a while,
when you've done it a few times,
478
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:31,840
you notice how the experts and dealers
take it for granted
479
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:35,080
when they accept a painting,
480
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,160
and it gets a lot easier.
481
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:41,840
I'd even say:
482
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:47,000
it's easier to sell a painting
for half a million
483
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,240
- than it is for ten thousand.
- Why?
484
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,680
Then no one thinks it's fake anymore.
485
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,760
If goods are in demand,
they should also be produced,
486
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,240
so trade can take place.
487
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:06,480
I'm not saying that dealers expect you
to produce forgeries for them,
488
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:11,160
but they're very happy
to find anything that can be sold.
489
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:15,600
We have to put the hooks in.
490
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,680
- Put that in the frame.
- Does it fit?
491
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,720
There are two possibilities:
492
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:28,440
The first
493
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,960
would be to paint a lost painting.
494
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:36,280
The second would be
an imaginary gap in the artist's work,
495
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,800
a gap you just imagine is there.
496
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,920
Of course, we did both options.
497
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,640
So you need a painting
which isn't in the catalog of works,
498
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:51,760
but nonetheless appears in literature.
499
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,880
And no one knows where it is.
500
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,000
Nor what it looked like.
501
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,200
Because it's not in the catalog of work.
502
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,760
So all you really need
503
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,360
is a good story,
504
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:14,080
so every art historian
or expert who deals in such matters
505
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,080
can research it.
506
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:21,200
We always left them traces
so they could find stuff out on their own.
507
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:27,520
It's disgusting.
508
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:30,680
The idea came from my husband.
509
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,520
When we met,
my grandfather had just died,
510
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,320
Werner Jägers. And after he died,
511
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:43,560
and we couldn't really offend or hurt him,
512
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:48,960
we invented this fairytale
about him being an art collector.
513
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:53,400
But everything else we said about him
was the truth.
514
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,480
The silk wallpaper was more difficult.
515
00:53:57,720 --> 00:54:01,680
Now take it from both sides,
and run your hands along it.
516
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,000
He did have some paintings,
but they were more like...
517
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,880
19th-century decorative art.
518
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,760
Not valuable paintings, but
he was interested in art and paintings.
519
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:16,720
Finished.
520
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:22,880
Fantastic collection.
521
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:24,520
Really.
522
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,360
Five million,
523
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:28,320
5.5 million,
524
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:30,880
one million,
525
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:35,000
1.7 million, I think, or 1.5 million.
526
00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:36,720
Not bad, right?
527
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:44,920
Mr. Jägers, whom they made up,
existed, but not as an art collector.
528
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,080
NIKLAS MAAK
ART CRITIC
529
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:53,320
He lived in the Rhineland,
which has a very strong network,
530
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:57,800
where it would be almost impossible
for a collector of that scale
531
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:02,040
to live without anyone at all
knowing anything about him.
532
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:07,280
Seeing as Mr. Jägers really did exist,
not as an art collector, but as a person,
533
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:12,520
someone could've researched who
he actually was. Just out of curiosity.
534
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:16,720
Any art enthusiast would want
to know everything about him.
535
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:19,240
In auction catalogs,
536
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:21,760
at Christie's or Sotheby's,
537
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,640
you see old photographs.
538
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,000
"In 19-whatever, at this collector's..."
539
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,200
So I thought, we can do that too.
540
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:35,960
Don't be so...
541
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:40,920
- Did you put on make-up?
- No.
542
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:43,040
- No?
- Why would I?
543
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:48,040
- Look at me.
- They didn't wear make-up back then.
544
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,600
- How does it work?
- A little hook.
545
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,080
Look. How does this work?
546
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,680
- Some technician you are.
- I'm totally unskilled.
547
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,280
- You click this, and push...
- Oh, I didn't know that.
548
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:07,040
How?
549
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:12,840
Looks strange.
550
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,480
- Like this?
- That's OK.
551
00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:19,800
I'll take the camera first.
552
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,160
There. I'll do the same one again.
553
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,240
Then I'll come over,
554
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:29,840
and take a photo from the front.
555
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,200
Sit facing the front more.
556
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,560
- Like this?
- We did two photo walls.
557
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,720
One photo just with my paintings hanging,
and the other
558
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,040
was an exhibition
559
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:53,320
with one of my paintings
hanging between the others.
560
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,800
It was very nice, just the Léger.
561
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,400
I'm still proud of it.
It was a great stunt.
562
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:04,880
They never really found out.
563
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:06,880
Even the state police.
564
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:09,640
They've given up hope on that photo.
565
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:13,200
They don't know
where it could've come from.
566
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:16,840
Now one from here.
567
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:20,920
Hands like this? Or down?
568
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,680
Not so tense. A bit more relaxed.
569
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,720
And one, two, three...
570
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,960
There's a magical moment
in literature
571
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:41,800
when you're reading
and forget it's fiction.
572
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,840
Like a kid hearing a fairytale:
He's there in that forest.
573
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,880
It's not Brothers Grimm,
but him with the big bad wolf.
574
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,480
That's what Beltracchi did.
He told them a story and...
575
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:57,360
everyone who heard it
wanted it to be true.
576
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,720
They were spellbound
by this story of Uncle Jägers.
577
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,880
I met Werner Spies in Sète.
578
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:07,280
I reserved a room for Werner Spies
at Grand Hotel in Sète.
579
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:14,520
I collected him in the morning
from the hotel and we drove to the domain.
580
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:48,160
Werner Spies
isn't just a Max Ernst expert.
581
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,240
He's also responsible for Picasso.
582
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,840
I wasn't exactly scared of him,
583
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,040
but as an expert, he really...
584
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:01,080
commands enormous respect.
585
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,240
I was dying to know:
586
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:11,440
Can we really fool him?
587
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:13,880
It was incredibly exciting.
588
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:18,840
The desire to experience that
and see what happened, was huge.
589
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:21,280
Stronger than the fear.
590
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,520
It's always like the first day of school.
591
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:31,280
Or when you haven't done your homework.
Everyone has felt that: the hot ears,
592
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:35,760
your heart beating, moist hands,
and trying to stay cool,
593
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,000
so the teacher doesn't realize.
594
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:43,480
But he had already seen
the scientific assessment.
595
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:49,440
Facing that situation,
you ask yourself, "How will he react?"
596
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:54,040
Maybe he'll immediately say,
597
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,440
"Impossible,"
598
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,560
"Forget it," or "I won't accept that."
599
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,680
Or he'd get all upset, you never know.
600
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:07,680
Then he looked at the painting.
601
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:10,560
It was hanging over there.
602
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:15,280
And we sat here for an hour
or an hour and a half,
603
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,840
talking about the painting,
about Max Ernst,
604
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:23,520
about art in general.
He looked at all the art in the house.
605
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:28,240
Then we went back to Sète,
had some food...
606
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,720
We had a last look at the view over Sète.
607
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:36,280
Then he got on a train with his wife
and went back to Paris.
608
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,920
He gave it a certificate
609
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:44,160
and included the painting in the catalog.
That was it.
610
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,600
THE ILLUSTRATED WORK
IS TO BE ENTERED
611
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:55,040
INTO THE CATALOG OF WORKS
FOR WHICH I AM RESPONSIBLE
612
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,000
WERNER SPIES
613
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,720
The role of Werner Spies is a tragic one.
614
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,720
He made serious procedural errors.
615
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,640
He was deceived in several cases,
616
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:19,600
didn't recognize the forgeries.
617
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:46,000
He received huge commissions,
618
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:50,520
all of which
were deposited in offshore accounts.
619
01:02:56,320 --> 01:03:00,520
He didn't reveal
this important information at the hearing.
620
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:04,160
RENÃ ALLONGE
CHIEF POLICE DETECTIVE
621
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:08,840
Instead, later on the forgeries
that were back in circulation
622
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:14,520
were requested for exhibitions
in Stockholm and Humlebaek in Denmark.
623
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:20,200
That's where I say:
He really shouldn't have done that.
624
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:38,240
Fantastic.
625
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:44,760
Isn't it great? The stairs really do it.
626
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:49,200
Say what you like, it's just great.
627
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:01,680
Right, OK.
628
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:03,880
Great.
629
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:09,560
- Got it?
- Yeah.
630
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:15,040
Go on.
631
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:27,640
- Come on.
- I am.
632
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:35,560
So... now on its side.
633
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:40,840
- What's on the floor?
- Shit.
634
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:43,960
Done. Great.
635
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:47,040
Good.
636
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:55,520
I'll do a little dove here.
637
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:58,040
Like he always did.
638
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:08,480
Sweetie...
639
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:12,480
Now we'll nail it on the wall,
640
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:14,680
so that it...
641
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:17,360
doesn't collect dust overnight.
642
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,680
It's going to be a fantastic painting.
643
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:23,760
The best Max Ernst I've ever painted.
644
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:28,560
I say that every time.
645
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:36,360
It looks crazy...
646
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:45,640
You don't have to be a genius
to do a painting like that.
647
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:48,000
- To have the idea?
- The idea...
648
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:52,280
To trace over a floorboard?
Other people have thought of that.
649
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:54,000
- Who?
- No idea.
650
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:57,000
I'm sure someone or other has.
651
01:05:57,400 --> 01:05:59,960
It's hardly groundbreaking.
652
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:08,480
An idea doesn't make you a great painter.
653
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,800
- So Max Ernst isn't a genius?
- No, I don't think he is.
654
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:51,680
Done.
655
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,880
If Max Ernst was first, and he was...
656
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:05,160
then I adapted it,
maybe made it better than the original.
657
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:11,080
Maybe my forest is even more beautiful.
Better, if you want to evaluate it.
658
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:15,520
Because I am adding to his.
659
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:27,080
I need to say something.
I've always had
660
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:32,880
a certain virginity complex
661
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:35,880
about white canvases.
662
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,280
When I sat in front of a white canvas
663
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,640
to start something, to paint something,
664
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:48,440
I found it almost impossible
to put the first dab on the canvas.
665
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:54,120
I had to find a way of overcoming it.
And I found it...
666
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:57,360
In 1925,
667
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:01,880
on a rainy day,
alone in a guesthouse by the sea.
668
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:08,000
I stared at the faded
and worn-down wooden floorboards,
669
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:13,280
and realized that the grains
in the wood were moving.
670
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:19,920
To strengthen the meditation,
671
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:23,480
I took some tracings from the wood.
672
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:28,080
I let pieces of paper
fall on the floor at random
673
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:31,920
and then rubbed over them
with black pencil.
674
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:37,600
I was surprised by the sudden increase
in my visionary powers.
675
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:47,960
JAMES ROUNDELL
THE SOCIETY OF LONDON ART DEALERS
676
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:42,720
A bit more there.
677
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:06,360
Good.
678
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,160
You know what's a pity?
679
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:15,560
That I won't get five million for it.
680
01:10:18,480 --> 01:10:20,360
That's a real pity.
681
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:02,960
We built a nice house. And another.
682
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,600
Other people do that too.
That's not megalomania.
683
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:11,200
Just because I planted 1000 trees.
684
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:13,600
It was nice.
685
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:00,440
We knew something was coming.
686
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:03,000
We knew it
687
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:04,880
for a year.
688
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:35,480
Off with it.
689
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:07,360
I was with them both
in France at the time.
690
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:10,920
FRANZISKA BELTRACCHI
(DAUGHTER)
691
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:14,640
I asked my dad
whose paintings he was burning.
692
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:17,920
He said they were his,
but I didn't believe him.
693
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,280
I just couldn't understand it.
694
01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:25,080
BELTRACCHI VILLA
IN FREIBURG, GERMANY
695
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:29,040
We knew nothing about it at first.
696
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:31,440
We knew our dad was an artist,
697
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:35,200
but we always had the impression
he didn't work all that much.
698
01:14:35,440 --> 01:14:37,400
MANUEL SCHNEE
(SON)
699
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:42,200
He said he was an art dealer.
He seemed to be doing well with it,
700
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:44,480
if you saw how we lived.
701
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:50,120
We'd always just see one painting
that he was painting on the side.
702
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:54,960
So we'd always think,
"He's lazy, he doesn't do anything."
703
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:09,440
I always ask myself,
704
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:12,720
"How did we not realize?"
705
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:17,400
I felt a bit stupid
that I didn't realize the whole time.
706
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:26,080
At first, you think, "What
do we really know about our parents?"
707
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:38,120
Here's the Lempertz catalog.
708
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:43,560
With the painting with the red horses.
709
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:46,520
That was the catalyst
710
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:49,800
for the whole affair.
711
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:51,960
Heinrich Campendonk,
712
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:54,320
Red Picture with Horses.
713
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:57,600
Or what's it called?
714
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:00,640
Yes,
Red Picture with Horses. 1914.
715
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:03,480
Beautiful painting.
716
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:07,040
It was considered
the best Campendonk to date.
717
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:12,920
Also the most expensive ever sold.
It cost nearly three million Euros.
718
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:17,320
It has the study on the back.
719
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:21,440
Then there was the label
720
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:23,960
from Flechtheim,
721
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:28,000
which suddenly turned out
not to be real anymore.
722
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:31,400
But it existed for the last 20 years.
723
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:35,440
Then it was in the auction
724
01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:38,480
in 2006.
725
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:40,520
And that's when
726
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:43,440
things slowly started to seethe.
727
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:06,040
FLECHTHEIM COLLECTION
728
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:41,360
The person who bought that painting
729
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:43,600
was a private buyer,
730
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:47,320
one of our gallery's
most important clients.
731
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,880
SOFIA KOMAROVA
GALLERY MANAGER
732
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:58,680
He called me the day after the purchase,
on November 30, 2006,
733
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,520
asking me to handle the transaction.
734
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:05,480
That's when I first saw
a photo of the painting.
735
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:10,560
The painting itself I saw much later.
736
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:16,520
First impressions:
737
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:19,600
an extraordinary work.
738
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:22,280
An extraordinary rarity,
739
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:24,280
which combines
740
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:28,040
the best of Campendonk.
741
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:32,880
In the catalog,
742
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:35,640
there was no illustration,
743
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:38,720
no technical details.
744
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:42,880
There was just a very long title,
745
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:47,200
Red Picture with Horses.
746
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:49,560
Nothing else.
747
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:51,840
HENRIK HANSTEIN
AUCTIONEER
748
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:56,680
Shortly after, I met a museum director,
who said, "Finally a superb Campendonk."
749
01:18:56,920 --> 01:18:59,640
I think this was his masterpiece.
750
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:04,160
He didn't just fake paintings,
he filled in the gaps in the literature.
751
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:07,120
That's not necessarily a new trick.
752
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,280
I contacted the Lempertz auction house
753
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:17,200
to request a certificate of authenticity
754
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:21,000
from a Campendonk specialist.
755
01:19:22,440 --> 01:19:23,840
We said, "Sure."
756
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:28,400
Mrs. Beltracchi became very involved
with the catalog editor
757
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:32,360
who requested a laboratory investigation,
which was carried out.
758
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:11,520
With these paintings, these fakes,
you can't smell anything at all.
759
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:16,360
RENÃ ALLONGE
CHIEF POLICE DETECTIVE
760
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,760
We still don't know
how many forgeries he really did,
761
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:22,600
and how many forgeries are in circulation.
762
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:26,800
That's a secret
he could reveal if he wanted to.
763
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:31,840
But it makes him interesting
and he takes advantage of that too.
764
01:20:37,440 --> 01:20:40,080
I did around 300
765
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:43,160
paintings and drawings.
766
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:48,240
Between 1970 and 2010.
767
01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:58,400
I could've done 2,000
and the market would've taken them.
768
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:13,880
NICHOLAS EASTAUGH
CONSERVATION SCIENTIST
769
01:21:38,480 --> 01:21:42,560
I wondered, where did that damn
titanium white come from?
770
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:57,080
I didn't mix the white
for that painting myself.
771
01:21:57,320 --> 01:21:59,120
I just used a tube.
772
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:01,360
I was just lazy.
773
01:22:02,920 --> 01:22:05,200
That painting being a fake...
774
01:22:05,440 --> 01:22:06,840
I can't believe it.
775
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:12,000
The communication between
Mr. Hanstein and Mr. and Mrs. Beltracchi
776
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:14,280
started over a forgery.
777
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:18,680
In 1995,
778
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:23,360
the couple delivered a painting
by Hans Purrmann.
779
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:27,240
Then just before the sale,
780
01:22:27,480 --> 01:22:30,440
the expert, Mrs. Purrmann, protested,
781
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:34,200
stating that the painting was a forgery.
782
01:22:34,440 --> 01:22:36,400
So Lempertz withdrew it.
783
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:39,000
It was the first contact
784
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:43,800
between Mr. Hanstein
and the so-called collectors.
785
01:22:45,440 --> 01:22:51,240
We fell victim to a very smooth fraudster,
like many of our colleagues.
786
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:55,840
There's no need to mention
that it really wasn't much fun.
787
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:00,800
Behind every canvas,
788
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:04,680
especially those
from the early 20th century,
789
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:07,200
there's a whole universe.
790
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:11,440
What happened in Germany, in Europe,
791
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:14,360
just before 1914?
792
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:21,240
Painters like Campendonk
anticipated the impending tragedy.
793
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:28,360
It's not a nice painting of horses.
794
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:31,480
There's tragedy behind it.
795
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:36,320
It shows the painter's boldness
796
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:39,200
as he anticipates what's ahead.
797
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:43,280
To know the tragedy that's coming,
and to still decide to paint.
798
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:47,920
And then you discover
799
01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:51,560
there's nothing behind it.
800
01:23:51,960 --> 01:23:56,040
It's just painted in his style.
801
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:58,200
There's no tragedy.
802
01:23:58,440 --> 01:24:01,640
No tears. No historical context
803
01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:06,320
inherent in each painting,
804
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:09,520
especially in the early 20th century.
805
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:36,680
Not in there. It'd be too heavy
on the glass. Get a new one.
806
01:24:37,480 --> 01:24:42,000
We were going to eat in a restaurant.
We were driving down the hill,
807
01:24:42,480 --> 01:24:45,200
when some police squads
808
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:48,120
stopped us.
809
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:51,400
They told us to get out
and stand by the car.
810
01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:53,600
They had guns and dogs.
811
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:58,440
Which was over-the-top.
They know my father isn't dangerous.
812
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:02,120
We stood out in the rain,
813
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:05,840
next to the car, and the policeman said,
814
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:10,440
"Do you have a license?" I said, "Yes."
"OK, you drive the car home."
815
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:13,200
So I drove the car to the garage.
816
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:17,840
I was scared. Scared for my parents too.
817
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:22,400
I didn't know when they'd be back.
Tomorrow, in a week...
818
01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:24,280
a month, a year...
819
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:26,600
I was just scared.
820
01:25:33,680 --> 01:25:37,920
I think it's fantastic,
and it characterizes the house,
821
01:25:39,200 --> 01:25:43,720
that you can see in or out everywhere.
It makes many people nervous. Not us.
822
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:46,400
I hope someone buys it
823
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:48,240
who understands that.
824
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:50,760
It doesn't really matter.
825
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:58,720
He can do what he wants,
like build walls around it.
826
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:02,120
Après moi le déluge.
827
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:15,800
The material costs caused by Beltracchi,
as far as we're concerned,
828
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:20,560
will be limited, because,
as part of the investigation,
829
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:25,160
Mr. Beltracchi's real estate was seized
in favor of our customers.
830
01:26:25,400 --> 01:26:28,160
It will be liquidated very soon,
831
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:32,880
meaning Lempertz customers
won't suffer any loss.
832
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:48,240
It was very clear to me and my wife
in recent years,
833
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:52,800
that at some point things would go bad.
We just felt it.
834
01:26:55,240 --> 01:26:57,320
It had to go wrong.
835
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:00,480
We actually wanted to stop. I wanted to.
836
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:06,080
I thought, "Two more paintings
for another ten million wouldn't be bad."
837
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:08,480
I still wanted to do those.
838
01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:13,200
I wanted to buy a palazzo in Venice.
839
01:27:14,440 --> 01:27:16,400
I was into that idea.
840
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:20,560
I thought,
"Just two more and then it's over."
841
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:27,720
Then I swapped the palazzo for a cell.
842
01:27:47,160 --> 01:27:49,960
All of my letters. They're all mine.
843
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:52,800
These are Wolfgang's.
844
01:27:56,120 --> 01:27:58,040
8,000 pages.
845
01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:01,240
We wrote every day. Every day.
846
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:11,480
This one's nice. A prisoner gave me
a heart-shaped candy.
847
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:14,440
Which I then gave to my husband.
848
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:21,480
My cell looked exactly like my husband's.
849
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:25,480
It faced the same direction.
He had the same daily routine.
850
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:30,520
Different officers and male prisoners,
but otherwise almost identical.
851
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:39,360
Wolfgang is much stronger than me.
852
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:41,920
Hopelessness doesn't exist for him.
853
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:48,240
With his attitude to life, and his desire,
his desire to put it all behind him,
854
01:28:48,480 --> 01:28:50,600
he carried me with him,
855
01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:54,800
otherwise I wouldn't have made it.
I'm not that strong.
856
01:28:56,240 --> 01:28:59,560
We're currently working on a book.
857
01:28:59,960 --> 01:29:01,720
To tell our story.
858
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:07,960
And regain our footing
by doing what we can,
859
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:14,240
and using that to move forward again.
860
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:18,800
You can work creatively
861
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:22,040
and also obey the law.
862
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:39,240
- How are you?
- Good, thanks. You?
863
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:41,880
As you might expect.
864
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:45,080
How often are you here?
865
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:48,200
- Every day.
- Every day?
866
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:51,120
- It's still not pleasant.
- Well, yes.
867
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:54,040
As they indicate in the papers...
868
01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:56,200
HENRY KEAZOR
ART HISTORIAN
869
01:29:56,440 --> 01:30:00,720
- Isn't it supposed to be a punishment?
- Exactly. I feel really punished.
870
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:03,400
What's this?
871
01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:06,800
That's one of mine, but it's not finished.
872
01:30:07,200 --> 01:30:09,840
- They're always unfinished.
- Why's that?
873
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:13,120
Because they get abandoned.
874
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:16,320
- You're not scared to finish them?
- No.
875
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:20,000
It was like that when I was arrested.
876
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:23,800
It wasn't finished yet.
877
01:30:26,240 --> 01:30:29,640
And it's related to the Inquisition,
878
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:32,720
a subject I was working on at the time.
879
01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:37,000
- Is that a fallen angel?
- Yes. - You like angels.
880
01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:39,520
- What do they mean...
- Always did.
881
01:30:39,760 --> 01:30:45,400
I think it's because my father
always took me to churches as a child.
882
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:47,680
They resonated with you.
883
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:50,680
What does an angel mean to you?
884
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:54,760
Well, for me it's...
885
01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:56,560
An angel...
886
01:30:57,200 --> 01:31:01,480
is a bit of hope, a sign of hope,
something like that.
887
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:04,600
I'm not devoutly religious, but an angel
888
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:07,000
symbolizes that for me.
889
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:08,720
Hope.
890
01:31:09,800 --> 01:31:11,800
How far is it from completion?
891
01:31:12,040 --> 01:31:15,520
There's still a lot to do.
I'll add a border.
892
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:18,200
And here on the main part,
893
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:22,120
there will be...
What's it called? Confetti.
894
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:24,840
It'll be partly gold...
895
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:31,480
I think a large part of the public
will want to see the forgeries.
896
01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:38,200
A so-called Ernst-Beltracchi, which is
both an Ernst painting and a Beltracchi.
897
01:31:38,440 --> 01:31:43,280
So you have two famous names.
There'll be a large market for that.
898
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:49,720
The other question is what you would
put on the market as Wolfgang Beltracchi.
899
01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:54,720
The bar is high.
People will have high expectations.
900
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:58,200
I'm not sure
what you plan on putting out there.
901
01:31:58,440 --> 01:32:01,080
I think this is the safer option,
902
01:32:01,480 --> 01:32:06,200
because it's something people know
and what they want.
903
01:32:06,440 --> 01:32:09,600
I'm curious to see
how your other work is received.
904
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:14,000
I don't know if
you'll have the same success.
905
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:17,680
They might say,
906
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:21,200
"So that's what it looks like.
I prefer the Ernst-Beltracchi."
907
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:24,080
That's how I see it too.
908
01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:28,200
How much blood and tears went into that?
909
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:30,800
- None at all.
- None?
910
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:34,080
No, I just have fun doing it.
911
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:37,760
My passion is reserved
for my wife and children.
912
01:32:38,160 --> 01:32:39,840
I'm more pragmatic.
913
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:42,520
You have a distanced relationship to art?
914
01:32:42,760 --> 01:32:46,640
Yes. You get that way
when you deal with it all the time.
915
01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:50,840
- With the art market or with art?
- The market.
916
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:01,120
I just want 20,000. Or 25,000.
917
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:04,200
We'll see what happens.
918
01:33:05,480 --> 01:33:07,760
But not less. No way.
919
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:11,920
It's a lot of work.
920
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:46,600
It's not forgery-proof, but I don't mind.
921
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:49,640
I've thought about that for a long time.
922
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:54,120
Why should my paintings be forgery-proof?
923
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:56,560
Let people forge them.
924
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:04,920
I should be the last person
to let that bother me, right?
66446