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Downloaded from
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX
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(spotlight clicks on)
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(dial tone)
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(dial tone)
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(gears turning)
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(dial tone)
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- You have a VAC
prepaid call from...
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00:00:31,114 --> 00:00:32,532
- Pamela Smart.
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- an inmate at Bedford Hills,
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00:00:35,201 --> 00:00:37,746
New York State
Correctional Facility.
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If you wish to accept and pay
for this call,
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00:00:40,123 --> 00:00:41,416
dial three now.
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- (beep)
- To hear the...
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- (woman) Hello?
- (Pamela) Now, I don't know
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if you know or not,
but I'm terrified of birds.
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I hate birds.
(wings fluttering)
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Okay, the night that
Gregg got killed,
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00:00:52,427 --> 00:00:56,890
in the middle of the night,
I woke up screaming
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00:00:56,931 --> 00:00:58,892
at the top of my lungs
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that there were birds
all over the ceiling.
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So I'm in the bed,
blood-curdling screams...
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I don't even remember.
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I know that if I was
screaming like that,
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00:01:10,111 --> 00:01:13,573
then I had to have been
hallucinating because
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there obviously were
no birds all over the ceiling.
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But then I sat up,
and I was really awake
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and everything, still screaming
to get them off the ceiling.
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That was night one.
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(beep)
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♪♪
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(reporter)
May 1, 1990.
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24 year old Greggory Smart
has been shot in the head.
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♪♪
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His wife, Pamela Smart,
is accused of
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plotting her husband's death.
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00:01:59,869 --> 00:02:02,747
♪♪
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She plotted the murder
of her husband
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00:02:04,290 --> 00:02:06,626
along with three teenage boys.
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00:02:06,668 --> 00:02:08,670
♪♪
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All along, she has said
she would welcome
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00:02:10,672 --> 00:02:13,383
the start of her trial so
she could prove her innocence.
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00:02:13,425 --> 00:02:16,177
Well, Pamela Smart is about
to get her wish.
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00:02:16,219 --> 00:02:18,763
♪♪
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This is gonna be
the first trial ever
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covered live on television.
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♪♪
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(man) Ten years prior
to "Survivor,"
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00:02:28,565 --> 00:02:31,568
a few years prior
to "The Real World."
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00:02:31,609 --> 00:02:35,280
So no one had ever seen
a television show where
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00:02:35,321 --> 00:02:38,908
you watched real life play out
in real time.
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00:02:38,950 --> 00:02:42,912
♪♪
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- There's no soap opera to this.
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It's real stuff.
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(man) Nothing happens,
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00:02:47,459 --> 00:02:49,669
and it's totally fascinating.
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♪♪
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(man 2) Litigation
as entertainment was
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00:02:54,549 --> 00:02:57,844
just exploding, and it exploded
through this trial.
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♪♪
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(reporter) From Boston,
from New Hampshire,
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00:03:01,514 --> 00:03:04,142
from all over New England,
and then it's national news,
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00:03:04,184 --> 00:03:06,394
in fact, around the world
is trying to cover the story.
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00:03:06,436 --> 00:03:08,271
It is gigantic.
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(man 3) ...that all
of New Hampshire,
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if not the nation,
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00:03:11,149 --> 00:03:14,736
is inflamed at the appearance
of Pamela Smart.
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(director)
So light back on.
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(lights clicking)
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♪♪
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(animals chirping)
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(Paul Maggiotto) All murders in
New Hampshire are big cases,
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00:03:46,351 --> 00:03:49,521
but this one certainly had some
interesting features to it.
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(typewriter clicking)
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(Tami Plyler) Uh, well,
I was covering Derry in 1990,
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00:03:57,362 --> 00:03:59,406
and I got a call early
in the morning
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that there had been a murder.
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00:04:00,782 --> 00:04:03,785
I believe it was in May,
it was a very sunny day.
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00:04:03,827 --> 00:04:06,746
I had to go to the condo complex
where the Smarts lived
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00:04:06,788 --> 00:04:08,832
and where the crime
had been committed.
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00:04:08,873 --> 00:04:11,584
The word was it was probably
a botched robbery or something.
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00:04:11,626 --> 00:04:14,295
And there was really no reason
at the time to think
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00:04:14,337 --> 00:04:16,297
it was it was anything else.
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00:04:16,339 --> 00:04:17,924
And a few days after the crime,
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I called Pam at
her mother's house,
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00:04:20,719 --> 00:04:23,096
and she invited me over
to interview her.
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00:04:23,138 --> 00:04:25,974
I remember she was
sitting there on the couch,
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00:04:26,016 --> 00:04:28,184
and the windows had big lights
and behind her,
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she was surrounded
by the flowers.
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00:04:30,937 --> 00:04:33,273
- Some other things that made
this case very interesting
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00:04:33,314 --> 00:04:35,025
to the press that early on,
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Pam Smart did not shy away
from press attention,
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00:04:39,487 --> 00:04:41,114
because there was
some initial thoughts
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00:04:41,156 --> 00:04:43,033
that maybe this was a drug deal
that went bad.
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00:04:43,074 --> 00:04:47,245
And she didn't hesitate to
talk about how her husband
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wasn't into drugs and how she
was defending his honor.
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00:04:51,332 --> 00:04:54,586
And there was a feeling that she
actually enjoyed the attention
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she was getting
being the widow on TV.
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(TV reporter) It is now
seven days since the murder.
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This would've been their
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00:05:02,093 --> 00:05:03,773
one year wedding anniversary,
she tells me.
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00:05:03,803 --> 00:05:05,555
Throughout
the lengthy interview,
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00:05:05,597 --> 00:05:07,265
Pamela is composed.
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00:05:07,307 --> 00:05:08,725
- Sometimes I ask myself,
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I can't figure out where
the strength is coming from.
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00:05:12,354 --> 00:05:14,981
(reporter) As we sit talking,
Pamela's dog, Halen,
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00:05:15,023 --> 00:05:18,026
named after the rock group
Van Halen, smuggles up to her.
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"Luckily, nothing happened
to him," she says.
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"He was locked in the basement
when I found Gregg murdered."
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00:05:23,448 --> 00:05:27,994
(Bill Spencer) She's dressed
beautifully, full-on makeup,
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00:05:28,036 --> 00:05:30,955
she looks hot,
like she was going to a party.
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She told me that
she had wanted to be
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a television news reporter.
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She wanted to do what I did.
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And she says, "You know,
it's been just about one year
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"exactly since Gregg and I
were married.
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00:05:41,841 --> 00:05:44,886
"I've got the top layer
of our wedding cake.
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"Wouldn't it be good
if you got a shot of me,
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"like, looking at it?
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Wouldn't that be a poignant
moment in your story?"
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I'm like, what?
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00:05:52,727 --> 00:05:54,562
She's attempting to produce
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00:05:54,604 --> 00:05:56,439
the story that I'm working on.
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00:05:56,481 --> 00:05:57,899
- I thought she was guilty.
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00:05:57,941 --> 00:05:59,859
When I watched on TV,
I thought she was guilty.
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00:05:59,901 --> 00:06:02,696
I thought she was
pretty conceited.
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00:06:02,737 --> 00:06:05,407
I remember she was sitting
on the couch with her dog,
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00:06:05,448 --> 00:06:07,200
and I felt, boy, she's cold.
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00:06:07,242 --> 00:06:09,053
- People would start saying,
well, don't you think it's
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00:06:09,077 --> 00:06:12,122
kind of suspicious, or people
starting to hear things?
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00:06:12,163 --> 00:06:16,001
And I was like, no, I-I...
no, I didn't get that.
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00:06:16,042 --> 00:06:18,128
And then it just starts
snowballing from there.
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00:06:28,471 --> 00:06:31,391
♪♪
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- The night of the murder,
I had to work late because
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00:06:34,144 --> 00:06:36,438
I was going to
a school board meeting,
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00:06:36,479 --> 00:06:38,523
maybe like 9:00 or 10:00.
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00:06:38,565 --> 00:06:41,067
When I was going up
the condo steps,
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00:06:41,109 --> 00:06:44,904
I noticed that the door looked
like it was open a little bit.
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00:06:44,946 --> 00:06:49,075
And then I opened the door,
and when I turned on the light,
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00:06:49,117 --> 00:06:50,744
I saw Gregg.
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00:06:55,415 --> 00:06:58,585
And the house was ransacked.
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00:06:58,626 --> 00:07:01,629
I thought that it was
an interrupted burglary.
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00:07:01,671 --> 00:07:03,357
I mean, everyone had
all these theories that
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00:07:03,381 --> 00:07:04,674
were going around at the time,
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00:07:04,716 --> 00:07:06,551
and that was just
the general consensus.
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00:07:08,219 --> 00:07:10,055
But apparently I was a suspect.
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00:07:10,096 --> 00:07:13,183
So I was in the dark,
and I was finding out
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00:07:13,224 --> 00:07:16,436
what was going on in my life
every day by watching the news.
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00:07:16,478 --> 00:07:17,771
(static)
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00:07:17,812 --> 00:07:19,981
It was a month after
my husband was killed,
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00:07:20,023 --> 00:07:21,983
I found out that
they were arrested.
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00:07:22,025 --> 00:07:23,502
- Have you got anything
to say this morning?
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00:07:23,526 --> 00:07:24,712
Are you involved in this murder?
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00:07:24,736 --> 00:07:26,404
- (boy) No, sir.
- (Bill) June 12th,
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00:07:26,446 --> 00:07:27,906
three Seabrook teenagers from
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00:07:27,947 --> 00:07:30,450
a ramshackle working class
neighborhood
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00:07:30,492 --> 00:07:32,827
are hustled into
a juvenile courtroom.
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00:07:32,869 --> 00:07:35,580
Prosecutors promise
the state will seek to try
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00:07:35,622 --> 00:07:37,457
each of the boys as adults.
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00:07:37,499 --> 00:07:39,626
Who pulled the trigger
in this case?
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00:07:39,668 --> 00:07:41,670
Can you tell us?
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00:07:44,297 --> 00:07:49,678
(Bill) Three teenage boys
who killed Gregg Smart live
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00:07:49,719 --> 00:07:53,932
on the other side of town in
a place called Seabrook.
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00:07:55,183 --> 00:07:59,604
And it is a very, very
poor neighborhood.
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00:08:02,649 --> 00:08:04,984
And these boys are rough.
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00:08:05,026 --> 00:08:07,445
Pete Randall,
very tough looking.
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00:08:07,487 --> 00:08:09,656
You can tell this kid is mean
by looking at him.
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00:08:09,698 --> 00:08:11,658
You know, he's got
a hateful look in his eyes
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00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:12,784
all of the time.
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00:08:12,826 --> 00:08:14,994
Then you've got Vance Lattime.
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00:08:15,036 --> 00:08:17,163
He's got these thick
Coke bottle glasses,
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00:08:17,205 --> 00:08:19,749
and frizzy hair.
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00:08:19,791 --> 00:08:22,711
And then you got Billy Flynn,
this good-looking,
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00:08:22,752 --> 00:08:25,505
big, brown puppy dog eyes.
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00:08:25,547 --> 00:08:27,132
He's a musician.
He's a rock musician,
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00:08:27,173 --> 00:08:29,509
like Gregg was.
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00:08:29,551 --> 00:08:32,679
The only possible connection
is...
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00:08:32,721 --> 00:08:34,139
(exhales)
is that Pam Smart works
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00:08:34,180 --> 00:08:36,057
at a high school,
Winnacunnet High School.
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00:08:37,684 --> 00:08:39,728
Every day, I'm talking to dozens
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00:08:39,769 --> 00:08:43,648
of teenage friends
of these three boys.
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00:08:43,690 --> 00:08:47,736
Starting to find out that Pam
was seen with Billy Flynn a lot.
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00:08:47,777 --> 00:08:50,864
Billy had talked about Pam,
how hot looking she was,
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00:08:50,905 --> 00:08:53,616
how gorgeous she was,
how he wanted to play
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00:08:53,658 --> 00:08:55,076
his guitar for her.
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00:08:59,789 --> 00:09:02,792
(Pamela) Gregg's father
is calling me on the phone.
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00:09:02,834 --> 00:09:05,003
My friends are calling me.
188
00:09:05,045 --> 00:09:08,882
My family is asking me,
"Who is this person?
189
00:09:08,923 --> 00:09:11,718
Why in the world would
this person murder Gregg?"
190
00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,679
And we're all grieving, okay,
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00:09:14,721 --> 00:09:16,348
over the fact
that Gregg is dead.
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00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:19,476
And I'm supposed to say,
"Oh, by the way, everybody,
193
00:09:19,517 --> 00:09:22,103
I had sex with this person"?
194
00:09:22,145 --> 00:09:26,232
I so badly wanted this
not to be true.
195
00:09:26,274 --> 00:09:28,502
I just wanted somebody to
tell me that this was not true,
196
00:09:28,526 --> 00:09:31,404
that this did not...
that it was really not him,
197
00:09:31,446 --> 00:09:34,908
because I felt horrible.
198
00:09:34,949 --> 00:09:37,243
- Pam, what's wrong?
How you doing?
199
00:09:37,285 --> 00:09:40,080
(Pam) Nothing,
but I can't comment, Bill.
200
00:09:40,121 --> 00:09:41,998
I really can't.
- Well...
201
00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,334
- I'm totally devastated
by this.
202
00:09:44,376 --> 00:09:46,127
I can't comment.
203
00:09:46,169 --> 00:09:49,881
- She had the opportunity
to tell us that she was having
204
00:09:49,923 --> 00:09:53,510
an affair with Bill Flynn,
and she never did.
205
00:09:53,551 --> 00:09:57,305
It was troubling.
206
00:09:57,347 --> 00:09:59,200
- The big thing about
this case was trying to connect
207
00:09:59,224 --> 00:10:03,561
Pam Smart to the murder,
and what we had was the tapes.
208
00:10:03,603 --> 00:10:06,940
♪♪
209
00:10:06,981 --> 00:10:09,275
- Pamela Smart's
personal student intern
210
00:10:09,317 --> 00:10:11,653
at Winnacunnet High School
agreed to help
211
00:10:11,695 --> 00:10:14,531
police investigators
by wearing a body wire.
212
00:10:14,572 --> 00:10:17,450
By doing so, police were able
to record a conversation
213
00:10:17,492 --> 00:10:20,995
with Pam Smart in which
they allege Smart admitted
214
00:10:21,037 --> 00:10:24,124
trying to help three Seabrook
teenagers kill her husband.
215
00:10:26,501 --> 00:10:29,796
(indistinct chatter)
216
00:10:29,838 --> 00:10:32,674
- The tapes removed
any possible doubt,
217
00:10:32,716 --> 00:10:34,843
let alone reasonable doubt.
218
00:10:37,345 --> 00:10:39,556
(Pamela)
August 1, 1990.
219
00:10:39,597 --> 00:10:41,349
I woke up at about 7:00 a.m.,
220
00:10:41,391 --> 00:10:43,810
and then I put on a green dress.
221
00:10:43,852 --> 00:10:46,146
Out of all the colors
I could've chosen,
222
00:10:46,187 --> 00:10:47,856
it still strikes me as strange
223
00:10:47,897 --> 00:10:50,066
that on my last day of freedom,
224
00:10:50,108 --> 00:10:52,819
I chose a dress of
the very same olive green
225
00:10:52,861 --> 00:10:55,363
colored prison uniform
that I must wear
226
00:10:55,405 --> 00:10:57,490
for the rest of my life.
227
00:10:57,532 --> 00:11:00,035
I was in my office
when the phone rang.
228
00:11:00,076 --> 00:11:03,288
I said, "Media center,"
and the person hung up.
229
00:11:04,664 --> 00:11:07,500
And few minutes later,
two Derry police detectives
230
00:11:07,542 --> 00:11:10,170
walked into my office.
231
00:11:10,211 --> 00:11:12,839
The lead detective
Pelletier said,
232
00:11:12,881 --> 00:11:15,300
"We have some good news
and some bad news."
233
00:11:18,261 --> 00:11:20,764
(Pelletier)
It's the shining moment for us.
234
00:11:20,805 --> 00:11:23,975
The line that came to mind on
the way over was, "The good news
235
00:11:24,017 --> 00:11:26,853
"is we solved the murder
of your husband,
236
00:11:26,895 --> 00:11:29,939
and the bad news
is you're under arrest."
237
00:11:32,567 --> 00:11:35,445
Let me go back and just...
a little more emotion.
238
00:11:37,072 --> 00:11:39,366
"I've got good news
and I've got bad news.
239
00:11:39,407 --> 00:11:41,451
(dramatic music sting)
240
00:11:41,493 --> 00:11:43,703
"The good news is
we've finally solved
241
00:11:43,745 --> 00:11:45,163
"the murder of your husband.
242
00:11:45,205 --> 00:11:47,874
And the bad news
is you're under arrest."
243
00:11:51,586 --> 00:11:53,773
(Joyce Maynard) I picked up
the newspaper, and there she was
244
00:11:53,797 --> 00:11:56,257
on the cover,
I think with handcuffs on,
245
00:11:56,299 --> 00:11:59,010
this... the cheerleader
with handcuffs on,
246
00:11:59,052 --> 00:12:00,720
and that's when I knew.
247
00:12:00,762 --> 00:12:03,390
I had decided I'm going
to write a novel.
248
00:12:03,431 --> 00:12:07,727
It was very much the fact
of having seen her on television
249
00:12:07,769 --> 00:12:10,021
before in this other role...
250
00:12:10,063 --> 00:12:13,525
the grieving widow role,
very pretty, young blonde,
251
00:12:13,566 --> 00:12:15,902
former cheerleader,
the kind of girl that
252
00:12:15,944 --> 00:12:17,737
I would have really been...
253
00:12:17,779 --> 00:12:20,031
hated, but secretly envied.
254
00:12:20,073 --> 00:12:23,743
And the recognition
that in fact, it was rotten,
255
00:12:23,785 --> 00:12:26,121
something very ugly behind it
256
00:12:26,162 --> 00:12:29,040
that bore no relationship
to the image in front.
257
00:12:30,583 --> 00:12:37,298
- As we ride one wave of imagery
to the next, we need to ask,
258
00:12:37,340 --> 00:12:40,885
A, what are we
looking at, really?
259
00:12:40,927 --> 00:12:43,555
And B, how are we looking?
260
00:12:43,596 --> 00:12:48,101
What happens when you
introduce electronic media,
261
00:12:48,143 --> 00:12:50,979
when you put a 50-inch screen
in front of people?
262
00:12:54,649 --> 00:12:57,527
♪♪
263
00:13:05,452 --> 00:13:10,707
- The archetype of
the beautiful woman brought down
264
00:13:10,749 --> 00:13:12,751
is a very powerful one.
265
00:13:12,792 --> 00:13:15,211
(reporter) According to police,
Pamela Smart convinced
266
00:13:15,253 --> 00:13:17,630
her teenage lover
to murder her husband.
267
00:13:17,672 --> 00:13:20,216
(reporter 2) Pamela Smart
offering to pay each teenager
268
00:13:20,258 --> 00:13:22,969
$1,000 for the murder
of her husband.
269
00:13:23,011 --> 00:13:26,264
(camera shutters clicking)
270
00:13:26,306 --> 00:13:29,434
(Joyce) She was
with very little affect.
271
00:13:29,476 --> 00:13:31,936
She showed almost no emotion.
272
00:13:31,978 --> 00:13:36,149
You can impose anything you want
onto that face.
273
00:13:36,191 --> 00:13:38,485
(Erin Joyce) It's the classic
tale of the seductress
274
00:13:38,526 --> 00:13:41,321
who seduces these
innocent young boys,
275
00:13:41,363 --> 00:13:43,656
and that's just the tale
for the ages.
276
00:13:43,698 --> 00:13:46,618
- Schoolteacher, you know,
molested this boy
277
00:13:46,659 --> 00:13:51,331
and had an affair with him,
and had her husband bumped off.
278
00:13:51,373 --> 00:13:56,378
- Sex, murder, teenage kids,
a teacher.
279
00:14:00,090 --> 00:14:04,094
- A-ha, I know
the black widow story.
280
00:14:04,135 --> 00:14:06,388
I know the ice princess story.
281
00:14:06,429 --> 00:14:09,224
I know what that
character is like.
282
00:14:09,265 --> 00:14:12,477
Once we've internalized
our understanding
283
00:14:12,519 --> 00:14:15,980
of who this character is,
then we search
284
00:14:16,022 --> 00:14:20,694
for details that confirm
that understanding.
285
00:14:20,735 --> 00:14:23,196
(TV reporter) Daughter of
an ambitious airline pilot,
286
00:14:23,238 --> 00:14:24,948
she was determined to succeed.
287
00:14:24,989 --> 00:14:26,991
(woman)
She's very domineering.
288
00:14:27,033 --> 00:14:29,202
She seemed to want to be
the focal point.
289
00:14:29,244 --> 00:14:30,995
She wanted attention.
290
00:14:31,037 --> 00:14:32,706
(Erin) She was ready
for her close-up
291
00:14:32,747 --> 00:14:34,308
and ready for the cameras.
- (Paul) I don't think
292
00:14:34,332 --> 00:14:35,935
she really thought
it was wrong to kill him,
293
00:14:35,959 --> 00:14:38,545
I don't think she has any desire
to ever accept responsibility.
294
00:14:38,586 --> 00:14:39,879
I think she's convinced herself
295
00:14:39,921 --> 00:14:41,256
she had nothing to do with it.
296
00:14:41,297 --> 00:14:42,549
(Erin)
Especially to Billy,
297
00:14:42,590 --> 00:14:44,884
Pam must have looked
like a princess.
298
00:14:44,926 --> 00:14:49,264
I mean, she was this attractive,
accomplished to their mind...
299
00:14:49,305 --> 00:14:51,307
she must have had
a huge hold on this boy.
300
00:14:51,349 --> 00:14:54,769
- Well, that was
a long perp walk.
301
00:14:54,811 --> 00:14:58,773
Can't help but wonder if they
had her come in the side way
302
00:14:58,815 --> 00:15:00,358
to give the press...
303
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:05,196
to feed the frenzy a little bit,
to feed the beast.
304
00:15:05,238 --> 00:15:07,240
Here we are outside
the courthouse.
305
00:15:07,282 --> 00:15:09,576
And, yes, Bill Spencer.
306
00:15:09,617 --> 00:15:11,953
- Already this case has
attracted a barrage
307
00:15:11,995 --> 00:15:14,414
of media attention from
all over the world.
308
00:15:14,456 --> 00:15:16,058
(Pelletier) Bill Spencer
was pretty dogged
309
00:15:16,082 --> 00:15:17,625
through this whole thing.
310
00:15:17,667 --> 00:15:20,337
He got quite a bit of publicity
for himself as well,
311
00:15:20,378 --> 00:15:23,340
and he ended up on
"The Phil Donahue Show."
312
00:15:23,381 --> 00:15:26,343
- The Geraldo Show.
- Sally Jessy Raphael.
313
00:15:26,384 --> 00:15:28,678
- "Hard Copy", "Inside Edition",
314
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,764
everybody wants to talk to me
315
00:15:30,805 --> 00:15:33,808
because I've been leading
the coverage in this case.
316
00:15:33,850 --> 00:15:35,810
- When marriage turns to murder.
317
00:15:35,852 --> 00:15:37,270
Fatal marriages are the focus
318
00:15:37,312 --> 00:15:38,730
of this edition of "Geraldo".
319
00:15:38,772 --> 00:15:41,441
- Now, the police have
a recording that Cecelia,
320
00:15:41,483 --> 00:15:43,651
the 16-year-old confidante,
made.
321
00:15:43,693 --> 00:15:46,279
She wore a wireless mic,
a hidden microphone.
322
00:15:46,321 --> 00:15:48,865
Pamela told this
16-year-old girl
323
00:15:48,907 --> 00:15:50,950
many incriminating things.
324
00:15:50,992 --> 00:15:54,329
- Did you hear the tape,
Mr. Spencer?
325
00:15:54,371 --> 00:15:55,931
- The Attorney General...
- Did you hear it?
326
00:15:55,955 --> 00:15:57,808
- No, of course I didn't...
- And you've made a judgment on
327
00:15:57,832 --> 00:16:00,543
my daughter based on
not hearing that tape.
328
00:16:00,585 --> 00:16:02,772
(Pelletier) Getting into
arguments with Pamela's family,
329
00:16:02,796 --> 00:16:05,024
which I thought might have been
a little bit out of place
330
00:16:05,048 --> 00:16:07,318
for a reporter that's supposed
to remain neutral and detached.
331
00:16:07,342 --> 00:16:10,929
- Any chance that the media
is on a runaway stampede
332
00:16:10,970 --> 00:16:13,115
with this case and this woman's
not getting a fair hearing?
333
00:16:13,139 --> 00:16:15,141
- (exhales)
No, I don't think so.
334
00:16:15,183 --> 00:16:17,435
I think the real evidence
is astronomical.
335
00:16:17,477 --> 00:16:19,646
- It's months and months
of reports of Pam doing this,
336
00:16:19,688 --> 00:16:22,399
Pam doing that, and there
hadn't even been a trial yet.
337
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,484
- The way it usually
goes is, you know,
338
00:16:24,526 --> 00:16:28,822
you cover a murder case,
and you try to dig and dig
339
00:16:28,863 --> 00:16:31,741
and find out as much as you can,
but nobody really ever knows
340
00:16:31,783 --> 00:16:34,536
the whole story
until a case goes to trial
341
00:16:34,577 --> 00:16:37,622
and people under oath start
telling what happens.
342
00:16:37,664 --> 00:16:41,459
In this case, I've managed to
tell everybody everything about
343
00:16:41,501 --> 00:16:43,628
this case before it
even goes to trial.
344
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:45,547
I mean, the whole thing
is out there.
345
00:16:45,588 --> 00:16:49,926
(announcer) WMURTV presents
The Greggory Smart Murder Case.
346
00:16:49,968 --> 00:16:54,848
(man) WMUR in New Hampshire
produced a movie called
347
00:16:54,889 --> 00:16:56,349
"The Anatomy of a Murder".
348
00:16:56,391 --> 00:17:01,521
And that movie detailed what
William Spencer thought
349
00:17:01,563 --> 00:17:03,857
resulted in the murder
of Greggory Smart.
350
00:17:03,898 --> 00:17:06,192
- and captured the attention
of the entire nation...
351
00:17:06,234 --> 00:17:08,570
(Bill) We publicize
the heck out of it.
352
00:17:08,611 --> 00:17:11,740
The full page ads in
the New Hampshire newspapers.
353
00:17:11,781 --> 00:17:14,909
Did she tell you her husband
was gonna get killed that night?
354
00:17:14,951 --> 00:17:16,202
- Yeah.
355
00:17:16,244 --> 00:17:17,871
(Bill) Ratings are huge.
356
00:17:17,912 --> 00:17:21,916
- All I want is the people who
did this sent to jail forever.
357
00:17:21,958 --> 00:17:26,796
- This was broadcast two days
before the jurors were selected.
358
00:17:26,838 --> 00:17:29,424
(seagulls cawing)
359
00:17:31,885 --> 00:17:34,471
(Bill) And now the court is
looking for twelve people
360
00:17:34,512 --> 00:17:36,598
who can put all of that aside
361
00:17:36,639 --> 00:17:38,141
and look at this case
open mindedly.
362
00:17:38,183 --> 00:17:39,743
(reporter)
A record 300 potential jurors
363
00:17:39,768 --> 00:17:41,394
have been summoned...
- Half of
364
00:17:41,436 --> 00:17:44,439
the 147 prospective jurors
summoned today said they
365
00:17:44,481 --> 00:17:46,566
had heard about the case,
so they were excused...
366
00:17:46,608 --> 00:17:48,693
(Bill) In the afternoon,
150 more jurors
367
00:17:48,735 --> 00:17:50,737
will be brought in...
- Search for objective jurors
368
00:17:50,779 --> 00:17:53,406
continues at the Rockingham
County Superior Courthouse.
369
00:17:53,448 --> 00:17:54,925
(Alec Beckett) I was in China,
and I called home
370
00:17:54,949 --> 00:17:56,618
just to let them know
I was gonna be home
371
00:17:56,659 --> 00:17:59,454
in the next few weeks.
And my mom all excitedly said,
372
00:17:59,496 --> 00:18:01,331
"You've been called to
the Pam Smart jury."
373
00:18:01,373 --> 00:18:03,333
And I said, what's that?
374
00:18:03,375 --> 00:18:05,460
Then she said,
"Don't read any papers.
375
00:18:05,502 --> 00:18:09,255
Don't do anything," and so
obviously remained willfully
376
00:18:09,297 --> 00:18:10,840
ignorant of what was going on.
377
00:18:10,882 --> 00:18:13,009
(reporter) The trial
had higher ratings
378
00:18:13,051 --> 00:18:14,678
than the afternoon soap operas.
379
00:18:14,719 --> 00:18:16,072
- So you came up here
and got a hotel room just
380
00:18:16,096 --> 00:18:17,222
to watch the trial?
- Right.
381
00:18:17,263 --> 00:18:18,598
- How come?
382
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,767
- Well, I'm kind of fascinated
by these trials.
383
00:18:20,809 --> 00:18:23,937
(Alec) The story
is just so intoxicating.
384
00:18:23,978 --> 00:18:26,815
You can see how important it is
to try to find jurors
385
00:18:26,856 --> 00:18:28,566
who haven't had that seed
planted in it,
386
00:18:28,608 --> 00:18:30,193
because once that seed
is in your head,
387
00:18:30,235 --> 00:18:32,404
you can see how
irresistible that is
388
00:18:32,445 --> 00:18:34,614
not to fill in that narrative
in your own head.
389
00:18:34,656 --> 00:18:38,618
- I don't feel that I could
sit there saying,
390
00:18:38,660 --> 00:18:40,054
yes, she did it,
or no, she didn't do it
391
00:18:40,078 --> 00:18:41,955
without... because
I've read so much about it.
392
00:18:41,996 --> 00:18:43,289
- I read too much about it,
393
00:18:43,331 --> 00:18:44,624
and I read the whole article
394
00:18:44,666 --> 00:18:46,143
and the whole
"National Telegraph" on it.
395
00:18:46,167 --> 00:18:47,460
I said, no.
396
00:18:47,502 --> 00:18:50,130
(Linda) How do you dismiss
what you've read
397
00:18:50,171 --> 00:18:53,466
and what you've been poisoned
with for the past six months?
398
00:18:53,508 --> 00:18:56,469
I don't know, maybe people
are capable of doing that.
399
00:18:56,511 --> 00:18:58,221
I hope to God that they are.
400
00:18:58,263 --> 00:19:00,306
- Nonsense.
Nonsense.
401
00:19:00,348 --> 00:19:02,600
You can't unring the bell.
402
00:19:02,642 --> 00:19:07,063
The Supreme Court has said over
and over again, a juror who
403
00:19:07,105 --> 00:19:13,445
denies the fact that he was
affected by pretrial prejudicial
404
00:19:13,486 --> 00:19:15,864
publicity is not to be believed.
405
00:19:15,905 --> 00:19:19,617
- We were hoping to place
the trial in a county
406
00:19:19,659 --> 00:19:21,453
much like Grafton County.
407
00:19:21,494 --> 00:19:23,830
It was not exposed
to Boston media.
408
00:19:23,872 --> 00:19:25,206
(cameras clicking)
409
00:19:25,248 --> 00:19:28,168
And Judge Grey
denied our attempt.
410
00:19:28,209 --> 00:19:29,961
Certainly Judge Grey
didn't wanna
411
00:19:30,003 --> 00:19:32,213
let go of this particular gem.
412
00:19:32,255 --> 00:19:35,508
'Cause he's sensing that this is
going to be the greatest case
413
00:19:35,550 --> 00:19:38,845
he ever sits on, and is that
going to affect his behavior
414
00:19:38,887 --> 00:19:41,514
and his rulings throughout
the course of the trial?
415
00:19:41,556 --> 00:19:43,117
(announcer)
Our regularly scheduled program
416
00:19:43,141 --> 00:19:45,643
will not be seen tonight
so that we may bring you
417
00:19:45,685 --> 00:19:48,188
the following special
presentation.
418
00:19:48,229 --> 00:19:52,567
(Paul) WMUR TV station basically
suspended all their programming,
419
00:19:52,609 --> 00:19:56,529
9:00, 9:30 in the morning
till 4:00 in the afternoon,
420
00:19:56,571 --> 00:19:58,740
and just broadcasts the trial.
421
00:19:58,782 --> 00:20:02,702
Also, the last two rows were
nothing but photographers.
422
00:20:02,744 --> 00:20:04,180
(Tami) The trial was
five weeks long,
423
00:20:04,204 --> 00:20:06,373
and I covered
every minute of it.
424
00:20:07,874 --> 00:20:09,584
This one, this one I took.
425
00:20:12,128 --> 00:20:14,339
That's Pam at trial looking...
426
00:20:14,381 --> 00:20:16,549
she's very demure,
but she's in handcuffs.
427
00:20:16,591 --> 00:20:19,135
But she's dressed up and made up
and her hair is done.
428
00:20:19,177 --> 00:20:20,863
And she always looked
really good during the trial,
429
00:20:20,887 --> 00:20:22,430
but she always had
a bow in her hair,
430
00:20:22,472 --> 00:20:23,991
and that was sort of her
trademark thing.
431
00:20:24,015 --> 00:20:28,728
♪♪
432
00:20:28,770 --> 00:20:31,314
I know one of the newspapers
had a daily story about
433
00:20:31,356 --> 00:20:33,108
what she wore to the trial.
434
00:20:33,149 --> 00:20:36,277
- It was newspapers,
plus the TV every single day.
435
00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:38,947
This is great.
436
00:20:38,988 --> 00:20:42,409
- You've got passion,
you've got lust, maybe greed,
437
00:20:42,450 --> 00:20:44,703
depending upon who you believe,
and you've got
438
00:20:44,744 --> 00:20:47,080
some conflicting stories,
and a real human drama.
439
00:20:47,122 --> 00:20:49,666
- You've got the prosecutor
that, I think,
440
00:20:49,708 --> 00:20:51,710
reminds me of Groucho Marx.
441
00:20:51,751 --> 00:20:54,671
I've got... you've got
Pamela Smart's lawyer
442
00:20:54,713 --> 00:20:56,589
that reminds me of Chevy Chase.
443
00:20:56,631 --> 00:20:58,484
And you've got Billy Flynn
that looks like Paul McCartney.
444
00:20:58,508 --> 00:21:00,051
I think they already
had a movie.
445
00:21:02,387 --> 00:21:04,180
(Mark) In this type
of a situation,
446
00:21:04,222 --> 00:21:08,727
the potential for tainting
a jury was very, very high
447
00:21:08,768 --> 00:21:10,562
if you didn't have
the protection
448
00:21:10,603 --> 00:21:12,731
of being able to sequester
the jury away.
449
00:21:12,772 --> 00:21:16,568
- Sequestered means where
the jurors basically
450
00:21:16,609 --> 00:21:20,613
are locked up in hotel rooms
451
00:21:20,655 --> 00:21:22,615
after the court during the day.
452
00:21:22,657 --> 00:21:25,118
But the reality is
the cost is extraordinary
453
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,995
to sequester jurors.
454
00:21:27,037 --> 00:21:28,848
So I don't think they needed
to be sequestered.
455
00:21:28,872 --> 00:21:30,874
(man) We didn't pick
twelve angels.
456
00:21:30,915 --> 00:21:33,960
I mean, these people are human
beings and they're susceptible
457
00:21:34,002 --> 00:21:36,504
to being influenced
just like anybody else is.
458
00:21:44,888 --> 00:21:46,890
(reporter)
This is the view from the air.
459
00:21:46,931 --> 00:21:49,476
Not a single available
parking space.
460
00:21:49,517 --> 00:21:56,024
♪♪
461
00:21:56,066 --> 00:21:59,778
(Pamela) I remember not being
in a complete panic
462
00:21:59,819 --> 00:22:02,489
because I knew
I hadn't done anything.
463
00:22:02,530 --> 00:22:05,617
And I was in my mind
saying to myself,
464
00:22:05,658 --> 00:22:07,494
this is going to get
straightened out.
465
00:22:07,535 --> 00:22:10,121
I haven't committed any crime.
466
00:22:10,163 --> 00:22:11,539
This is a mistake.
467
00:22:11,581 --> 00:22:15,669
I was 22 years old,
I was very naive.
468
00:22:15,710 --> 00:22:18,463
I had this relatively
normal upbringing
469
00:22:18,505 --> 00:22:19,923
and normal life.
470
00:22:19,964 --> 00:22:24,552
I was pretty much
an uneventful person,
471
00:22:24,594 --> 00:22:26,554
I did what I was supposed to do.
472
00:22:26,596 --> 00:22:29,557
I went to school, I went
to college afterwards,
473
00:22:29,599 --> 00:22:33,019
had a boyfriend, I got married.
474
00:22:33,061 --> 00:22:35,105
Life was pretty simple.
475
00:22:35,146 --> 00:22:38,650
I was under the belief that the
only people that went to prison
476
00:22:38,692 --> 00:22:39,943
were people that were guilty,
477
00:22:39,984 --> 00:22:41,611
and that if you were innocent,
478
00:22:41,653 --> 00:22:43,697
it would be proven in
the court of law,
479
00:22:43,738 --> 00:22:45,740
and that's the end of the story.
480
00:22:58,628 --> 00:23:01,089
- On the very first day,
official day
481
00:23:01,131 --> 00:23:02,984
of the Pamela Smart
accomplice to murder trial...
482
00:23:03,008 --> 00:23:05,111
- Opening statements are
scheduled for tomorrow morning.
483
00:23:05,135 --> 00:23:07,387
- In fact, he testified that
Pamela Smart even bought
484
00:23:07,429 --> 00:23:09,264
the bullets...
- Revealing more details
485
00:23:09,305 --> 00:23:11,367
about his alleged love affair...
- During the afternoon
486
00:23:11,391 --> 00:23:14,561
after school to have sex in
her car, in her house,
487
00:23:14,602 --> 00:23:16,688
and even at
a Seabrook ballfield.
488
00:23:16,730 --> 00:23:19,357
- Went car shopping at
a car dealership in Exeter.
489
00:23:19,399 --> 00:23:22,569
She planned to buy either
a Camaro or a TransAm.
490
00:23:22,610 --> 00:23:27,741
♪♪
491
00:23:27,782 --> 00:23:29,743
(Mark) It was the first
trial in history
492
00:23:29,784 --> 00:23:31,578
televised gavel to gavel.
493
00:23:31,619 --> 00:23:33,329
We were guinea pigs.
494
00:23:33,371 --> 00:23:34,706
♪♪
495
00:23:34,748 --> 00:23:37,167
(Pelletier)
People are watching big time.
496
00:23:37,208 --> 00:23:38,460
Although I'm pretty confident
497
00:23:38,501 --> 00:23:39,919
we're gonna get
a guilty verdict,
498
00:23:39,961 --> 00:23:42,756
I've gotta be there
I've got to hear it live.
499
00:23:42,797 --> 00:23:45,091
We sat in the front row
that day.
500
00:23:49,846 --> 00:23:52,265
(female reporter)
Live, this is a live following
501
00:23:52,307 --> 00:23:54,601
the verdict at
the Rockingham County Courthouse
502
00:23:54,642 --> 00:23:57,645
in Exeter, Pamela Smart was
just found guilty.
503
00:23:57,687 --> 00:24:00,940
- And God and the justice system
works in this society,
504
00:24:00,982 --> 00:24:03,109
and we are very, very happy.
505
00:24:03,151 --> 00:24:05,403
- She got what she deserves.
- She's getting... yes.
506
00:24:05,445 --> 00:24:07,155
- I think justice was done.
507
00:24:07,197 --> 00:24:09,115
- I thought that's where
it was gonna come out.
508
00:24:09,157 --> 00:24:10,784
- She deserves it.
509
00:24:10,825 --> 00:24:12,327
- Do you feel
it was a fair trial?
510
00:24:12,369 --> 00:24:14,037
- Do you think it was fair?
511
00:24:14,079 --> 00:24:16,206
From the beginning,
it wasn't fair.
512
00:24:21,586 --> 00:24:23,630
♪♪
513
00:24:23,672 --> 00:24:25,757
(reporter) Defense attorneys
are looking at
514
00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:28,009
several avenues
for a possible appeal.
515
00:24:28,051 --> 00:24:30,929
Many people believe there is no
way the jury could have avoided
516
00:24:30,970 --> 00:24:32,972
contact with the media
during the trial.
517
00:24:33,014 --> 00:24:35,892
But in order to prove that,
they're gonna have to find out
518
00:24:35,934 --> 00:24:38,395
from a juror or from
a juror's relatives,
519
00:24:38,436 --> 00:24:44,401
or somebody that indeed
their decision was tainted.
520
00:24:44,442 --> 00:24:47,028
(recorder running)
521
00:25:00,917 --> 00:25:03,253
(Juror 13) You know, the jury's
taken a lot of rap,
522
00:25:03,294 --> 00:25:04,897
and I can't speak
for everybody on the jury,
523
00:25:04,921 --> 00:25:06,840
but I can certainly
speak for me.
524
00:25:06,881 --> 00:25:08,508
They just didn't
give her a defense.
525
00:25:08,550 --> 00:25:10,844
I mean, I felt like when
526
00:25:10,885 --> 00:25:13,054
they said that the defense
rests its case,
527
00:25:13,096 --> 00:25:15,849
I couldn't believe it.
I was like, no way.
528
00:25:15,890 --> 00:25:17,684
That's not fair,
529
00:25:17,726 --> 00:25:19,366
because I don't believe
she deserves that.
530
00:25:19,394 --> 00:25:22,939
And I think that the circus of
the media was ridiculous.
531
00:25:22,981 --> 00:25:25,859
About ten billion cameras...
(imitates clicking)
532
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:27,360
going off,
and everybody's taking
533
00:25:27,402 --> 00:25:30,947
billions of pictures,
which I think rots.
534
00:25:30,989 --> 00:25:33,616
I just think it rots.
535
00:25:33,658 --> 00:25:36,870
♪♪
536
00:25:39,664 --> 00:25:43,001
- Cameras, by looking at
the courtroom environment,
537
00:25:43,043 --> 00:25:45,253
changes the nature of that
courtroom environment.
538
00:25:45,295 --> 00:25:49,215
Werner Heisenberg,
quantum physicist,
539
00:25:49,257 --> 00:25:51,968
studied microscopic particles,
and he realized
540
00:25:52,010 --> 00:25:55,930
that those particles
changed form in some sort of way
541
00:25:55,972 --> 00:25:59,893
by injecting energy
into that system.
542
00:25:59,934 --> 00:26:04,189
And he comes up with this
Heisenberg principle.
543
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:07,484
It was an observation
that the act of observing
544
00:26:07,525 --> 00:26:11,946
a physical entity changes by
the act of that observation.
545
00:26:13,323 --> 00:26:17,285
That people are different
as a result of being observed.
546
00:26:17,327 --> 00:26:19,496
There's a self consciousness,
in other words,
547
00:26:19,537 --> 00:26:22,832
that goes on by being part
of a television event.
548
00:26:24,959 --> 00:26:28,088
- It was not a trial,
it was a spectacle.
549
00:26:28,129 --> 00:26:30,924
But after the trial was over,
state of New Hampshire wanted
550
00:26:30,965 --> 00:26:33,635
to put her as far away
as possible.
551
00:26:34,969 --> 00:26:37,097
(reporter) This morning,
they confirmed that
552
00:26:37,138 --> 00:26:39,724
the convicted murder-conspirator
was transferred to a prison
553
00:26:39,766 --> 00:26:41,142
in New York State.
554
00:26:41,184 --> 00:26:43,186
(Pamela) They woke me up
at 4:00 in the morning
555
00:26:43,228 --> 00:26:46,189
and told me to get out
of the bed, and they just
556
00:26:46,231 --> 00:26:48,066
whisked me away in a van
557
00:26:48,108 --> 00:26:50,068
and took me to New York
with no notice.
558
00:26:50,110 --> 00:26:53,279
I was handcuffed,
I was shackled.
559
00:26:53,321 --> 00:26:56,324
It was like this big secret,
and I was really afraid.
560
00:26:56,366 --> 00:26:59,160
I actually thought
they were going to kill me.
561
00:26:59,202 --> 00:27:03,498
- They brought into effect,
for the first time ever
562
00:27:03,540 --> 00:27:05,834
in the history of
the state of New Hampshire,
563
00:27:05,875 --> 00:27:09,504
an interstate compact
which they had with
564
00:27:09,546 --> 00:27:11,673
the state of New York,
565
00:27:11,715 --> 00:27:14,259
which allowed transfer
of prisoners.
566
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:18,805
And for no reason whatsoever,
except they could not stand
567
00:27:18,847 --> 00:27:22,976
the circumspection people
coming to the prison
568
00:27:23,018 --> 00:27:25,437
and determining for
their own minds who were
569
00:27:25,478 --> 00:27:29,232
interested in whether or not
she received a fair trial.
570
00:27:57,260 --> 00:27:59,512
(Cherie Alzate)
Pam had a high profile case,
571
00:27:59,554 --> 00:28:01,181
so everyone knew that
572
00:28:01,222 --> 00:28:03,975
this pretty little blonde girl
was coming.
573
00:28:05,143 --> 00:28:07,354
The sharks were waiting for her.
574
00:28:07,395 --> 00:28:09,981
- Things that go on in there
are not good.
575
00:28:10,023 --> 00:28:11,983
They're not good,
and the things that happened
576
00:28:12,025 --> 00:28:14,736
to Pamela Smart are even worse.
577
00:28:16,237 --> 00:28:19,491
(Cherie) From day one,
Pam was a punching bag.
578
00:28:19,532 --> 00:28:20,784
I remember one time,
579
00:28:20,825 --> 00:28:23,161
they broke
the eye socket on her.
580
00:28:23,203 --> 00:28:24,930
(Pamela) Just started
punching me in my face.
581
00:28:24,954 --> 00:28:27,248
(Robin) She still has, like,
a metal plate in there.
582
00:28:27,290 --> 00:28:30,043
(Pamela) Another girl came
and was kicking me in my face.
583
00:28:30,085 --> 00:28:33,046
- Not only from the inmates,
the officers, too.
584
00:28:34,881 --> 00:28:37,884
(woman) Pam Smart was more
vulnerable than most.
585
00:28:37,926 --> 00:28:41,262
She was raped in prison
by a guard,
586
00:28:41,304 --> 00:28:44,516
who sold these pictures
to the "National Enquirer."
587
00:28:47,727 --> 00:28:50,230
He made up this entire pedigree
588
00:28:50,271 --> 00:28:52,649
where she is
the master manipulator
589
00:28:52,691 --> 00:28:54,901
and head of a sex and dope ring
590
00:28:54,943 --> 00:28:57,779
and controls the corrupt guards.
591
00:28:57,821 --> 00:29:02,409
You know, the old story,
Pamela the seducer.
592
00:29:02,450 --> 00:29:05,912
And of course, he posed her
in a way that was very similar
593
00:29:05,954 --> 00:29:08,707
to the famous bikini picture.
594
00:29:08,748 --> 00:29:13,169
This bikini shot turned up
at the trial as something that
595
00:29:13,211 --> 00:29:17,966
Pam had done to seduce
Billy Flynn.
596
00:29:18,008 --> 00:29:21,177
But the truth is, she and her
friend Tracy were posing
597
00:29:21,219 --> 00:29:25,140
for each other
to enter it into a contest.
598
00:29:27,809 --> 00:29:32,105
The bikini photo
was part of the story.
599
00:29:32,147 --> 00:29:33,732
The story is bogus,
600
00:29:33,773 --> 00:29:37,152
but the consequences
to Pam are real.
601
00:29:45,827 --> 00:29:49,622
(Pamela) In about two weeks,
I'm gonna have literally spent
602
00:29:49,664 --> 00:29:52,876
half of my life in prison.
603
00:29:52,917 --> 00:29:56,671
I have been trying to get back
into court, and to this day,
604
00:29:56,713 --> 00:30:01,092
I'm left to try to chip away
at this avalanche
605
00:30:01,134 --> 00:30:04,429
of negative image that hurts me.
606
00:30:04,471 --> 00:30:07,974
♪♪
607
00:30:11,102 --> 00:30:13,313
(Joyce)
I only know Pamela Smart
608
00:30:13,355 --> 00:30:15,106
as she's appeared on television.
609
00:30:15,148 --> 00:30:19,527
I only know the media Pam Smart.
610
00:30:19,569 --> 00:30:22,906
Seeing humanity on a screen,
it loses humanity.
611
00:30:22,947 --> 00:30:24,824
It's just these images.
612
00:30:24,866 --> 00:30:27,410
(man) How do you find
the defendant, Pamela Smart,
613
00:30:27,452 --> 00:30:29,746
on the charge of accomplice to
murder in the first degree?
614
00:30:29,788 --> 00:30:31,748
(juror) Guilty, Your Honor.
615
00:30:31,790 --> 00:30:33,416
(crowd cheers)
616
00:30:33,458 --> 00:30:37,003
- I directed a film
made for television for CBS.
617
00:30:37,045 --> 00:30:38,630
- Pam...
618
00:30:38,672 --> 00:30:41,466
- Could someone
call my mother, please?
619
00:30:41,508 --> 00:30:43,677
And would someone get the dog?
620
00:30:43,718 --> 00:30:47,180
(Joyce C.) The film was shot
in the summer of '91,
621
00:30:47,222 --> 00:30:50,558
just a few months after
Pamela Smart was convicted,
622
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,353
and it was broadcast
by September.
623
00:30:53,395 --> 00:30:57,232
And I think it was the first
quote ripped from the headlines.
624
00:30:57,273 --> 00:31:01,361
"TV movie: sex with
a teenager and murder."
625
00:31:01,403 --> 00:31:03,697
What an easy sale to television?
626
00:31:03,738 --> 00:31:06,241
(gunshot)
627
00:31:06,282 --> 00:31:10,078
- Nicole Kidman, my God,
I was very lucky as people go
628
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:11,788
who get their books
made into movies.
629
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:15,125
- You're not anybody
in America unless you're on TV.
630
00:31:15,166 --> 00:31:18,253
On TV is where we learn about
who we really are.
631
00:31:18,294 --> 00:31:19,838
(Joyce M.)
I wanted to be Pamela Smart,
632
00:31:19,879 --> 00:31:21,881
and I was writing
her monologues.
633
00:31:21,923 --> 00:31:25,051
Did I say Pamela Smart
or did I say Suzanne Maretto?
634
00:31:25,093 --> 00:31:27,053
Suzanne Maretto,
635
00:31:27,095 --> 00:31:28,406
I'll speak of my,
the character in my book,
636
00:31:28,430 --> 00:31:32,058
is a sociopath
who didn't have a soul,
637
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:34,227
who'd really lost her soul
638
00:31:34,269 --> 00:31:36,479
somewhere along the line
to television.
639
00:31:36,521 --> 00:31:37,981
♪♪
640
00:31:38,023 --> 00:31:40,275
(Pamela) "Pamela Smart
is cold, flighty,
641
00:31:40,316 --> 00:31:43,236
"an airhead and manipulative,
642
00:31:43,278 --> 00:31:48,783
calculating, self centered,
tantalizing."
643
00:31:48,825 --> 00:31:50,910
People say, "Oh, that's you.
644
00:31:50,952 --> 00:31:52,912
Oh, I saw your movie."
645
00:31:52,954 --> 00:31:55,874
And it's like,
this is not my movie.
646
00:31:55,915 --> 00:31:58,293
Nothing in here is my story.
647
00:32:01,504 --> 00:32:05,091
It's not, it's just their
interpretation of what happened.
648
00:32:05,133 --> 00:32:06,593
And these are
the kinds of things
649
00:32:06,634 --> 00:32:09,387
that help prevent me
from getting back into court.
650
00:32:09,429 --> 00:32:13,141
- You're a cold-blooded
murderer, a non-caring...
651
00:32:16,770 --> 00:32:18,605
(indistinct chatter)
652
00:32:18,646 --> 00:32:21,775
- And I also hope that this is
the absolute last time my family
653
00:32:21,816 --> 00:32:23,276
and I have to look at your face.
654
00:32:23,318 --> 00:32:25,945
- Superior Court Judge
Douglas Grey says media coverage
655
00:32:25,987 --> 00:32:28,198
of Smart's case did not deny her
656
00:32:28,239 --> 00:32:30,533
a right to a fair trial
last month.
657
00:32:30,575 --> 00:32:33,244
- Without comment,
the five justices unanimously
658
00:32:33,286 --> 00:32:35,663
denied a defense request
earlier this month.
659
00:32:40,752 --> 00:32:43,630
- We can't make these
high stakes decisions...
660
00:32:43,672 --> 00:32:46,299
innocent, guilt...
we can't make
661
00:32:46,341 --> 00:32:50,804
these decisions on
the basis of fantasy.
662
00:32:50,845 --> 00:32:52,972
We have to be able to know
663
00:32:53,014 --> 00:32:56,559
what the reality is
as best we can.
664
00:32:59,020 --> 00:33:03,274
- If you were the defendant
in that case, would you think
665
00:33:03,316 --> 00:33:07,278
you'd gotten a fair shake from
the justice system?
666
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,865
And if you answer that question,
"I don't know,"
667
00:33:10,907 --> 00:33:12,659
then you should be saying to me,
668
00:33:12,701 --> 00:33:15,787
"Well, let's hear it
in more detail."
669
00:33:15,829 --> 00:33:17,455
(recorder clicks)
670
00:33:17,497 --> 00:33:20,125
Isn't it time
to take another look
671
00:33:20,166 --> 00:33:22,711
at the Pam Smart trial?
672
00:33:25,797 --> 00:33:29,718
- Today was the first day
of the Pam Smart trial
673
00:33:29,759 --> 00:33:33,013
and there was media everywhere.
674
00:33:33,054 --> 00:33:36,891
I felt like a bug
in a glass jar.
675
00:33:36,933 --> 00:33:39,936
And I'm not supposed to be
talking about it to anybody,
676
00:33:39,978 --> 00:33:42,689
and so I'm making a tape.
677
00:33:42,731 --> 00:33:46,526
It's easier to talk
to a tape, anyway.
678
00:33:46,568 --> 00:33:48,528
Well, today started out,
679
00:33:48,570 --> 00:33:52,198
the 15 jurors met
in the jury room.
680
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,412
Then we got in the bus
and off we went.
681
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,462
So we drove to Derry,
682
00:34:05,503 --> 00:34:08,423
right into the condominium.
683
00:34:08,465 --> 00:34:11,259
It was nasty and rainy and cold.
684
00:34:12,886 --> 00:34:18,516
And half of us went
into the Smart condominium.
685
00:34:20,018 --> 00:34:21,311
Um, about Pamela Smart?
686
00:34:21,353 --> 00:34:23,897
What'd I feel about her today?
687
00:34:23,938 --> 00:34:25,940
She looked...
688
00:34:25,982 --> 00:34:29,944
tiny, troubled.
689
00:34:29,986 --> 00:34:35,450
I just can't even imagine
what she must be feeling.
690
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:38,703
Hmm...
691
00:35:22,247 --> 00:35:24,624
♪♪
692
00:35:24,666 --> 00:35:27,627
- Good morning, everyone,
I'm Nanette Hansen,
693
00:35:27,669 --> 00:35:30,714
WMURTV's live coverage
of the Pamela Smart
694
00:35:30,755 --> 00:35:33,633
accomplice to murder trial
is about to resume.
695
00:35:33,675 --> 00:35:35,969
Court proceedings are about
to get underway.
696
00:35:36,011 --> 00:35:38,847
William Flynn,
the self admitted trigger man
697
00:35:38,888 --> 00:35:41,057
in the murder of Greggory Smart,
698
00:35:41,099 --> 00:35:42,642
has entered the courtroom.
699
00:35:42,684 --> 00:35:45,228
- We had Billy Flynn on
the stand pretty early on
700
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:49,107
in the case because we thought
he could explain everything
701
00:35:49,149 --> 00:35:51,651
about Pam Smart, the murder,
702
00:35:51,693 --> 00:35:54,487
the orchestration, so the jury
could have a whole story.
703
00:35:54,529 --> 00:35:57,490
- I didn't want to kill Gregg.
704
00:35:57,532 --> 00:36:00,702
I wanted to be with Pam,
and that's what I had to do
705
00:36:00,744 --> 00:36:04,039
to be with Pam, but I didn't
want to kill Gregg.
706
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,292
(Paul M.) Uh, Billy Flynn
clearly came across as a kid
707
00:36:07,334 --> 00:36:09,836
who had fallen for Pam Smart,
708
00:36:09,878 --> 00:36:11,838
and without the influence
of Pam Smart on him,
709
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,090
probably never would've
pulled that trigger.
710
00:36:14,132 --> 00:36:15,675
- Yeah, every time
I talked to Pam,
711
00:36:15,717 --> 00:36:17,528
and if she happened to say,
you know, "Make sure
712
00:36:17,552 --> 00:36:20,513
you use a gun, don't use
anything else," I'd say yes.
713
00:36:33,902 --> 00:36:36,738
(Billy) Well...
714
00:36:36,780 --> 00:36:38,948
just, um...
715
00:36:43,995 --> 00:36:46,539
(prosecutor) Now where did you
go after school that day?
716
00:36:46,581 --> 00:36:48,291
- Well, we drove up to Derry.
717
00:36:48,333 --> 00:36:53,380
When we decided it was dark
enough, Pete and myself taped
718
00:36:53,421 --> 00:36:56,174
our fingertips up,
then put the gloves...
719
00:36:56,216 --> 00:36:58,551
started walking towards
Pam's condo,
720
00:36:58,593 --> 00:37:01,054
and we went down
the bulkhead doors.
721
00:37:01,096 --> 00:37:04,557
- What did you do next?
722
00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:07,811
- Well, we went upstairs,
723
00:37:07,852 --> 00:37:12,440
Pete and I,
right into Pam's room.
724
00:37:12,482 --> 00:37:14,293
We started dumping out
the drawers and everything
725
00:37:14,317 --> 00:37:16,778
so it'd look like a burglary.
726
00:37:16,820 --> 00:37:18,446
(Pelletier)
Then they wait.
727
00:37:18,488 --> 00:37:19,823
Gregg Smart arrives home.
728
00:37:19,864 --> 00:37:21,658
He gets punched
and he gets ambushed.
729
00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:24,369
He gets grabbed, and he gets
forced to his knees
730
00:37:24,411 --> 00:37:26,413
and he's saying,
731
00:37:26,454 --> 00:37:28,140
"Take whatever you want,
take whatever you want."
732
00:37:28,164 --> 00:37:31,042
(Paul M.) Billy Flynn was
kneeling in front of the jury
733
00:37:31,084 --> 00:37:33,962
on the ground showing how
helpless Gregg Smart was.
734
00:37:34,004 --> 00:37:37,048
And you could hear a pin drop
in the courtroom.
735
00:37:37,090 --> 00:37:38,550
Gregg Smart never saw the gun.
736
00:37:38,591 --> 00:37:40,885
All Gregg Smart knew
was that Patrick Randall
737
00:37:40,927 --> 00:37:43,304
was on the other side of him
with a knife to his neck,
738
00:37:43,346 --> 00:37:46,474
and the original plan was
to kill him with the knife.
739
00:37:46,516 --> 00:37:49,394
(prosecutor) Why weren't you
able to cut his throat?
740
00:37:51,104 --> 00:37:52,647
- I just couldn't do it.
741
00:37:52,689 --> 00:37:54,041
- Well, when you felt
you couldn't,
742
00:37:54,065 --> 00:37:55,775
describe what happened next.
743
00:37:59,529 --> 00:38:01,072
I motioned to Pete,
744
00:38:01,114 --> 00:38:05,994
um, like this, because
that where I had the gun.
745
00:38:06,036 --> 00:38:08,997
- What happened after that?
746
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:11,833
- Um, Pete...
747
00:38:13,835 --> 00:38:16,296
Uh, nodded his head yes.
748
00:38:16,338 --> 00:38:18,965
- And after Pete nodded
his head yes,
749
00:38:19,007 --> 00:38:22,510
what did you do?
750
00:38:22,552 --> 00:38:24,512
- I cocked the handle back,
and, um...
751
00:38:24,554 --> 00:38:27,724
I pointed the gun at his head.
752
00:38:27,766 --> 00:38:30,101
- "And what did you next?"
And he didn't really
753
00:38:30,143 --> 00:38:33,146
wanna say it, you know, and he's
tearing up and he's crying.
754
00:38:33,188 --> 00:38:34,373
"Billy, what did you do next?"
755
00:38:34,397 --> 00:38:36,608
- And, uh...
756
00:38:40,445 --> 00:38:43,073
I said, um,
757
00:38:43,114 --> 00:38:45,116
God forgive me...
758
00:38:57,045 --> 00:38:59,214
- After you said,
"God forgive me",
759
00:38:59,255 --> 00:39:01,091
what happened?
760
00:39:01,132 --> 00:39:03,718
- (crying)
761
00:39:06,971 --> 00:39:09,349
I pulled the trigger.
762
00:39:09,391 --> 00:39:11,810
(Paul M.)
"I pulled the trigger."
763
00:39:11,851 --> 00:39:14,038
You know? And then the judge
immediately called a recess.
764
00:39:14,062 --> 00:39:16,189
I mean, I couldn't have asked
for a better recess.
765
00:39:16,231 --> 00:39:18,608
To emphasize the dramatic part
of the trial.
766
00:39:18,650 --> 00:39:22,696
- We'll be back
when the trial reconvenes.
767
00:39:22,737 --> 00:39:24,072
(announcer)
It is from Kodak.
768
00:39:25,865 --> 00:39:27,992
The genius is in the details.
769
00:39:29,244 --> 00:39:32,497
♪♪
770
00:39:35,917 --> 00:39:37,877
(Joyce C.) I did have
sympathy for Billy.
771
00:39:37,919 --> 00:39:42,549
How they got into this crazy
situation is understandable.
772
00:39:42,590 --> 00:39:47,721
Billy was sexually obsessed
with Pam.
773
00:39:47,762 --> 00:39:50,223
(Alec) We can't forget that
she's like a grown woman
774
00:39:50,265 --> 00:39:51,725
and he is a child.
775
00:39:51,766 --> 00:39:55,645
Manipulation is... easy.
776
00:39:56,896 --> 00:39:58,523
(Joyce M.)
That boy touches me.
777
00:39:58,565 --> 00:40:00,734
Somebody who was once
somebody's little boy
778
00:40:00,775 --> 00:40:04,696
playing little league,
who got terribly, horribly,
779
00:40:04,738 --> 00:40:06,072
irretrievably lost.
780
00:40:06,114 --> 00:40:07,949
- She worked within
the school system
781
00:40:07,991 --> 00:40:10,326
and the fact that all of this
static from the school system
782
00:40:10,368 --> 00:40:11,661
just says one thing to me,
783
00:40:11,703 --> 00:40:13,580
that this could've been
anybody's kid.
784
00:40:13,621 --> 00:40:15,749
- I have two
16-year-old brothers,
785
00:40:15,790 --> 00:40:18,418
and I think she should
definitely go to jail.
786
00:40:18,460 --> 00:40:20,545
I can't even imagine
getting kids
787
00:40:20,587 --> 00:40:21,605
involved in something like this.
788
00:40:21,629 --> 00:40:23,381
- It teaches our school children
789
00:40:23,423 --> 00:40:24,841
we don't need her around.
790
00:40:24,883 --> 00:40:28,428
♪♪
791
00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:32,098
Uh...
792
00:40:32,140 --> 00:40:33,826
It's pretty tough sitting
in that courtroom.
793
00:40:33,850 --> 00:40:35,894
I have a wicked back...
that chair I'm sitting in
794
00:40:35,935 --> 00:40:38,438
is terrible, terrible, terrible.
795
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,983
Anyway, let's see.
796
00:40:42,025 --> 00:40:44,069
Bill Flynn.
797
00:40:44,110 --> 00:40:46,029
He has, like this
really babyfaced,
798
00:40:46,071 --> 00:40:48,448
innocent looking, sweet as pie.
799
00:40:48,490 --> 00:40:50,533
And he's the masterpiece
of this whole thing,
800
00:40:50,575 --> 00:40:52,118
he's the actual trigger man.
801
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,245
He even pulled
some tears in court.
802
00:40:54,287 --> 00:40:55,330
Ha!
803
00:40:55,372 --> 00:40:57,874
I wasn't impressed.
804
00:40:57,916 --> 00:41:02,879
Here's this kid sitting up
there admitting to first degree
805
00:41:02,921 --> 00:41:05,965
premeditated murder,
806
00:41:06,007 --> 00:41:09,594
and did a deal
with the state to lower
807
00:41:09,636 --> 00:41:14,933
his charges to a second degree
murder charge.
808
00:41:14,974 --> 00:41:17,811
Now, second degree murder,
as I understand it,
809
00:41:17,852 --> 00:41:19,854
is not premeditated.
810
00:41:19,896 --> 00:41:21,648
He's saying they
talked about it for weeks.
811
00:41:21,690 --> 00:41:23,149
They had planned for weeks.
812
00:41:23,191 --> 00:41:25,110
They discussed it over and over
and over again.
813
00:41:25,151 --> 00:41:29,155
They had it all planned out,
admitted to everything.
814
00:41:29,197 --> 00:41:31,282
♪♪
815
00:41:31,324 --> 00:41:32,677
(Pamela) I know that when
they were arraigned,
816
00:41:32,701 --> 00:41:34,244
they pled not guilty.
817
00:41:34,285 --> 00:41:36,746
Originally they were saying
that they had nothing to do
818
00:41:36,788 --> 00:41:41,126
with the case, my name
was nowhere in it.
819
00:41:41,167 --> 00:41:45,046
And they ended up
taking plea bargains.
820
00:41:45,088 --> 00:41:47,716
And those plea bargains
were contingent upon them
821
00:41:47,757 --> 00:41:49,718
testifying against me.
822
00:41:49,759 --> 00:41:52,387
And they started to say,
"Well, yeah, okay, we did this,
823
00:41:52,429 --> 00:41:55,223
but she told us to do this."
824
00:41:55,265 --> 00:41:59,019
(Erin) Once they were certified
to be tried as adults
825
00:41:59,060 --> 00:42:01,187
because of the seriousness
of their crime,
826
00:42:01,229 --> 00:42:04,190
that was the big
turning point for them.
827
00:42:07,819 --> 00:42:09,130
(Pamela) By taking
these plea bargains
828
00:42:09,154 --> 00:42:10,822
and blaming everything on me,
829
00:42:10,864 --> 00:42:13,033
they avoided
the capital murder charge
830
00:42:13,074 --> 00:42:15,201
that would have carried
the death penalty.
831
00:42:15,243 --> 00:42:17,096
The first degree murder charge
would have carried
832
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,623
life in prison and they were
able to plea bargain down
833
00:42:20,665 --> 00:42:22,917
to a second degree
murder charge.
834
00:42:22,959 --> 00:42:26,254
- Well, an old lawyer said to me
once, "If a client's gonna sing,
835
00:42:26,296 --> 00:42:28,631
you sing like a bird,
and you cooperate."
836
00:42:28,673 --> 00:42:30,550
- There's no halfway to do it.
837
00:42:30,592 --> 00:42:32,385
You have to cooperate 100%.
838
00:42:32,427 --> 00:42:34,888
- The Attorney General's office
has not revealed exactly
839
00:42:34,929 --> 00:42:38,641
how many years in prison
William Flynn, Patrick Randall
840
00:42:38,683 --> 00:42:41,019
and Vance Lattime
have negotiated
841
00:42:41,061 --> 00:42:43,021
as part of their plea bargains.
842
00:42:43,063 --> 00:42:46,316
But sources close to the case
tell News Nine each teen
843
00:42:46,358 --> 00:42:49,235
has been promised 25 years
to life, which could make them
844
00:42:49,277 --> 00:42:51,905
eligible for parole
after 25 years.
845
00:42:51,946 --> 00:42:53,948
- The family is outraged.
846
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:56,910
The two men that went in
the house and took my son away
847
00:42:56,951 --> 00:43:01,873
from me, coming out of
the courtroom, chewing gum,
848
00:43:01,915 --> 00:43:04,250
slapping hands and smiling.
849
00:43:04,292 --> 00:43:08,088
Who could do something like that
and have no remorse?
850
00:43:08,129 --> 00:43:11,174
- But isn't that strange
that after that,
851
00:43:11,216 --> 00:43:13,176
Bill pulled a bunch of tears?
852
00:43:13,218 --> 00:43:16,137
I would say they're
crocodile tears.
853
00:43:18,598 --> 00:43:20,058
- I caught him in the morning,
854
00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:22,811
him and Pete doing lines
on a desk in the room.
855
00:43:22,852 --> 00:43:24,622
I caught him one morning,
I opened up the door
856
00:43:24,646 --> 00:43:25,939
and they were banging lines
857
00:43:25,980 --> 00:43:27,691
before they were gonna testify.
858
00:43:27,732 --> 00:43:29,372
And he goes, "It makes me
more emotional."
859
00:43:29,401 --> 00:43:31,820
He goes, "It makes me more
emotional on the stand."
860
00:43:31,861 --> 00:43:34,197
He said, "Don't you know this?
Don't you know this?
861
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,117
"Don't you notice?"
Because I used to sit there
862
00:43:37,158 --> 00:43:40,120
and watch the boys when
they come back in.
863
00:43:40,161 --> 00:43:42,181
They would watch themselves
on TV, and I was with them,
864
00:43:42,205 --> 00:43:45,208
and we would all sit around,
we’d smoke a bone in the cell,
865
00:43:45,250 --> 00:43:46,918
a joint, a reefer,
866
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,212
weed, marijuana,
whatever you want to call it.
867
00:43:49,254 --> 00:43:53,258
We were doing everything we were
doing, especially marijuana,
868
00:43:53,299 --> 00:43:55,969
morphine, Valiums,
and the cocaine, of course.
869
00:43:56,011 --> 00:43:58,179
I had one way where I th...
I had someone throw
870
00:43:58,221 --> 00:44:00,306
Nerf football over the fence.
871
00:44:00,348 --> 00:44:03,309
And inside the Nerf football
would be the drugs.
872
00:44:03,351 --> 00:44:06,354
The funny thing was that there
would be a different color
873
00:44:06,396 --> 00:44:07,814
Nerf football
out there every day
874
00:44:07,856 --> 00:44:09,649
and the cops wouldn't
even realize it.
875
00:44:09,691 --> 00:44:11,002
I could've got a gun in
if I wanted to,
876
00:44:11,026 --> 00:44:13,194
but I'm not a gun person.
877
00:44:21,578 --> 00:44:24,122
Billy told me straight out that,
"Listen, Rick," he says,
878
00:44:24,164 --> 00:44:27,125
"we gotta do what we gotta do,
and I'm not taking my boys
879
00:44:27,167 --> 00:44:28,686
"down with me for
the rest of our lives.
880
00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:30,337
We're not doing it."
881
00:44:30,378 --> 00:44:32,505
♪♪
882
00:44:32,547 --> 00:44:36,009
(Mark) Flynn was bragging
about his testimony to inmates
883
00:44:36,051 --> 00:44:37,052
that he put a show on.
884
00:44:37,093 --> 00:44:38,511
"How did you like me crying?"
885
00:44:38,553 --> 00:44:42,015
The trial was in play when
we got that information.
886
00:44:42,057 --> 00:44:48,772
Judge Grey denied our attempt
at recalling Flynn.
887
00:44:48,813 --> 00:44:50,231
(Pamela) It's not
just one instance
888
00:44:50,273 --> 00:44:52,525
that was precluded from
being entered into evidence.
889
00:44:52,567 --> 00:44:56,029
So the jury never really
got the full picture,
890
00:44:56,071 --> 00:44:58,656
of the witnesses
or of the evidence.
891
00:44:58,698 --> 00:45:03,661
♪♪
892
00:45:03,703 --> 00:45:05,080
There was a fourth person,
893
00:45:05,121 --> 00:45:07,248
he was actually the initial one
894
00:45:07,290 --> 00:45:09,209
that came forward,
Raymond Fowler,
895
00:45:09,250 --> 00:45:12,879
and told the first account
of what had happened.
896
00:45:12,921 --> 00:45:16,049
He said that I had
nothing to do with this.
897
00:45:16,091 --> 00:45:18,551
We wanted to obviously
call him to testify
898
00:45:18,593 --> 00:45:20,053
but the state arrested him.
899
00:45:20,095 --> 00:45:22,263
(Bill) Raymond Fowler
has already admitted that
900
00:45:22,305 --> 00:45:25,392
he waited in the car the night
Greggory Smart was murdered,
901
00:45:25,433 --> 00:45:28,061
but now police say
three weeks before the murder,
902
00:45:28,103 --> 00:45:29,896
Fowler drove here
with Billy Flynn,
903
00:45:29,938 --> 00:45:31,398
and he was armed with a knife
904
00:45:31,439 --> 00:45:33,900
and had intended
to kill Gregg Smart,
905
00:45:33,942 --> 00:45:35,944
but at the last minute
chickened out.
906
00:45:35,985 --> 00:45:39,030
(Rob) Day of the plea bargain,
same day as the day
907
00:45:39,072 --> 00:45:41,241
they charged Raymond
with the five offenses.
908
00:45:41,282 --> 00:45:43,118
So he was a witness up
to that point,
909
00:45:43,159 --> 00:45:46,496
and they turned the three boys
against Raymond just to have
910
00:45:46,538 --> 00:45:49,791
enough information to put enough
pressure on Raymond so that he'd
911
00:45:49,833 --> 00:45:54,671
plea bargain too
and be out of the picture.
912
00:45:54,713 --> 00:45:57,173
If you ask the question,
why would it be a problem?
913
00:45:57,215 --> 00:45:59,634
When they took
Raymond's deposition,
914
00:45:59,676 --> 00:46:02,762
they probably realized that
his story didn't match exactly
915
00:46:02,804 --> 00:46:04,514
to the three boys'.
916
00:46:33,460 --> 00:46:35,420
(reporter) If you're just
joining us, this is
917
00:46:35,462 --> 00:46:37,213
WMURTV's live coverage
918
00:46:37,255 --> 00:46:39,632
of the Pamela Smart accomplice
to murder trial.
919
00:46:39,674 --> 00:46:43,136
Right now, the defense attorney,
Mark Sisti, is preparing
920
00:46:43,178 --> 00:46:45,138
to question the witness
on the stand,
921
00:46:45,180 --> 00:46:48,475
18-year-old Vance Lattime Jr.
922
00:46:48,516 --> 00:46:51,770
- You not only talked
about this case
923
00:46:51,811 --> 00:46:53,646
at the Rockingham County Jail,
924
00:46:53,688 --> 00:46:56,733
but you talked about this case
while you were all locked up
925
00:46:56,775 --> 00:46:59,986
over at the ADC, right?
- Wrong.
926
00:47:00,028 --> 00:47:02,197
- You talked to Bill
and Pete all the time.
927
00:47:02,238 --> 00:47:03,573
- Nope.
928
00:47:03,615 --> 00:47:05,784
- Did anybody ever tell you
we had letters
929
00:47:05,825 --> 00:47:08,203
that you wrote
to your girlfriend?
930
00:47:08,244 --> 00:47:09,788
- No.
- Do you recall telling
931
00:47:09,829 --> 00:47:14,292
your girlfriend that Bill,
or "him", actually, it says,
932
00:47:14,334 --> 00:47:16,920
"him and Pete are
the only things
933
00:47:16,961 --> 00:47:19,464
"that remind me
of how things were?
934
00:47:19,506 --> 00:47:21,424
We are always talking."
935
00:47:21,466 --> 00:47:23,593
Do you remember
telling her that?
936
00:47:23,635 --> 00:47:25,762
- Yes.
I've talked...
937
00:47:25,804 --> 00:47:27,263
Since I've been locked up,
938
00:47:27,305 --> 00:47:30,183
I've talked about
everything in the case.
939
00:47:30,225 --> 00:47:32,811
- Basically,
they discredited him.
940
00:47:32,852 --> 00:47:36,439
He is Bill Flynn's cellmate,
941
00:47:36,481 --> 00:47:41,027
and Pete Randall
is two cells down,
942
00:47:41,069 --> 00:47:42,987
open cells.
943
00:47:43,029 --> 00:47:46,241
They had plenty of opportunities
944
00:47:46,282 --> 00:47:49,744
to concoct a story
and get their story straight.
945
00:47:49,786 --> 00:47:52,163
Not only did they have
plenty of opportunities,
946
00:47:52,205 --> 00:47:56,376
the cross examination revealed
that they did.
947
00:47:56,418 --> 00:47:58,229
(Paul Twomey) I've been
doing this for 30 years
948
00:47:58,253 --> 00:48:01,881
and in every single case
other than one,
949
00:48:01,923 --> 00:48:04,050
there was an effort on
the part of the prosecutors,
950
00:48:04,092 --> 00:48:07,095
where there are codefendants and
people that will be
951
00:48:07,137 --> 00:48:09,222
telling the same story
and they're incarcerated,
952
00:48:09,264 --> 00:48:11,766
there's an effort
to keep them apart.
953
00:48:11,808 --> 00:48:16,062
I don't understand the decision
to have those boys housed
954
00:48:16,104 --> 00:48:18,857
in the same place
and able to talk to each other.
955
00:48:18,898 --> 00:48:22,736
(lawyer) Pete, Pam Smart didn't
make you kill anybody, right?
956
00:48:22,777 --> 00:48:24,904
- Right.
957
00:48:24,946 --> 00:48:28,575
- Fact of the matter is that
on over 20 occasions,
958
00:48:28,616 --> 00:48:33,663
you and Flynn and Lattime
959
00:48:33,705 --> 00:48:36,291
and Fowler, Daly
960
00:48:36,332 --> 00:48:41,087
sat around brainstorming ways
of killing Gregg Smart.
961
00:48:41,129 --> 00:48:42,756
- I had never been with Daly,
962
00:48:42,797 --> 00:48:45,258
but yes, that's true.
963
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:46,402
- Now, Pam wasn't there, right?
964
00:48:46,426 --> 00:48:48,428
- Right.
- Now, during this
965
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:50,263
same time period,
you were ripping off
966
00:48:50,305 --> 00:48:51,848
stereos from cars and stuff?
967
00:48:51,890 --> 00:48:53,183
- Occasionally.
968
00:48:53,224 --> 00:48:55,560
- Still stealing motorcycles?
969
00:48:55,602 --> 00:48:57,312
- Occasionally, yes.
970
00:48:57,354 --> 00:49:00,273
- He admitted that,
oh, on occasion, yeah,
971
00:49:00,315 --> 00:49:03,026
they rip off houses together,
and on occasion, yeah,
972
00:49:03,068 --> 00:49:05,737
they rip off
motorbikes together,
973
00:49:05,779 --> 00:49:08,740
and on occasion, they do drugs
974
00:49:08,782 --> 00:49:12,327
and do cocaine
and all kinds of things.
975
00:49:12,369 --> 00:49:18,291
And he admitted that he
is just a criminal,
976
00:49:18,333 --> 00:49:24,130
I mean, an experienced criminal.
977
00:49:24,172 --> 00:49:25,733
(Rob) Pete was one of those
kinds of people that
978
00:49:25,757 --> 00:49:27,777
if you pissed him off,
you were gonna be in trouble.
979
00:49:27,801 --> 00:49:30,428
He beat his stepdad
with a baseball bat
980
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:32,972
when he was younger,
but the state wouldn't
981
00:49:33,014 --> 00:49:34,683
allow that in as evidence
982
00:49:34,724 --> 00:49:37,227
because he was
a juvenile at the time.
983
00:49:37,268 --> 00:49:38,454
- Were you looking
for a revolver?
984
00:49:38,478 --> 00:49:39,896
Were you looking for a .45?
985
00:49:39,938 --> 00:49:41,064
What were you looking for?
986
00:49:41,106 --> 00:49:43,191
- Something, .45, 9 mm.
987
00:49:43,233 --> 00:49:45,235
- Why?
- Has a clip.
988
00:49:45,276 --> 00:49:47,987
- Why? What's the difference
to you?
989
00:49:48,029 --> 00:49:50,156
- To me?
- Yeah.
990
00:49:50,198 --> 00:49:52,951
- Lighter gun,
smaller gun usually.
991
00:49:52,992 --> 00:49:55,412
- How do you know
all that stuff?
992
00:49:55,453 --> 00:49:57,831
- I've read magazines
about guns.
993
00:49:57,872 --> 00:50:01,209
(Juror 13) He was a sicko.
994
00:50:01,251 --> 00:50:04,838
I mean, a sicko.
995
00:50:04,879 --> 00:50:08,675
After him came on
the forensic fellow.
996
00:50:08,717 --> 00:50:11,886
Oh, he is an undisputed expert.
997
00:50:11,928 --> 00:50:14,222
So this guy definitely
knows his business.
998
00:50:14,264 --> 00:50:16,599
And he testified...
999
00:50:16,641 --> 00:50:20,937
(lawyer) There was a single
gunshot wound of entrance
1000
00:50:20,979 --> 00:50:22,939
high up on the left side
of the head,
1001
00:50:22,981 --> 00:50:27,527
one inch to the left of
the midline of the scalp,
1002
00:50:27,569 --> 00:50:32,407
and five inches above
the ear canal.
1003
00:50:32,449 --> 00:50:36,745
The bullet passed
downward and backward
1004
00:50:36,786 --> 00:50:42,500
from front to back at
about a 45 degree angle.
1005
00:50:42,542 --> 00:50:45,253
(Juror 13) Pete said Pete was
in front of Greggory Smart
1006
00:50:45,295 --> 00:50:49,382
and Bill, from behind,
blew him away.
1007
00:50:49,424 --> 00:50:51,009
- Standing from behind,
1008
00:50:51,051 --> 00:50:54,721
I really... it would be
extraordinarily difficult.
1009
00:50:54,763 --> 00:50:56,598
- Okay, would you agree
with me, then,
1010
00:50:56,639 --> 00:50:59,267
that that trajectory
in your findings there
1011
00:50:59,309 --> 00:51:01,144
are inconsistent with a person
1012
00:51:01,186 --> 00:51:03,521
shooting Gregg Smart
from behind?
1013
00:51:03,563 --> 00:51:06,107
- Well, standing behind,
I would think that...
1014
00:51:06,149 --> 00:51:07,335
(Juror 13) If you were
standing behind me,
1015
00:51:07,359 --> 00:51:11,529
It couldn't be done.
1016
00:51:11,571 --> 00:51:15,742
- I think that they were
in an agreement that Flynn
1017
00:51:15,784 --> 00:51:17,178
would take the blame
for the killing
1018
00:51:17,202 --> 00:51:20,997
no matter what took place.
1019
00:51:21,039 --> 00:51:25,168
The way that I saw the case was
having the lover of Pam Smart
1020
00:51:25,210 --> 00:51:28,880
actually do the job gave it
more of an impact statement
1021
00:51:28,922 --> 00:51:30,423
than what I believed was true,
1022
00:51:30,465 --> 00:51:33,218
and that was that Pete
did the job when
1023
00:51:33,259 --> 00:51:35,220
they got in the house,
1024
00:51:35,261 --> 00:51:37,430
when, probably,
Flynn chickened out
1025
00:51:37,472 --> 00:51:39,974
and Pete executed him.
1026
00:51:40,016 --> 00:51:41,226
- Fucking now, asshole, do it.
1027
00:51:41,267 --> 00:51:45,105
(rising metal music)
1028
00:51:45,146 --> 00:51:46,773
(gunshot)
1029
00:51:46,815 --> 00:51:49,109
(Alec) The gorgeous woman
who tempts us to evil
1030
00:51:49,150 --> 00:51:51,778
is Eve handing us an apple.
1031
00:51:51,820 --> 00:51:53,863
It's a great story.
1032
00:51:53,905 --> 00:51:59,577
(Richard) The founder of
Court TV once said that trials
1033
00:51:59,619 --> 00:52:03,832
are the most dramatic narrative
that we have
1034
00:52:03,873 --> 00:52:07,293
outside of violent combat.
1035
00:52:07,335 --> 00:52:10,463
The idea is multiple
perspectives
1036
00:52:10,505 --> 00:52:13,633
will generate multiple stories.
1037
00:52:13,675 --> 00:52:17,887
And in the test that is
the cauldron of
1038
00:52:17,929 --> 00:52:19,472
the adversarial process,
1039
00:52:19,514 --> 00:52:22,392
truth will be victorious.
1040
00:52:22,434 --> 00:52:26,813
But what happens when
we're so taken with
1041
00:52:26,855 --> 00:52:31,484
the media's distillation
of the story?
1042
00:52:31,526 --> 00:52:35,238
Is the adversarial system
up to that task?
1043
00:52:38,867 --> 00:52:42,328
- I feel like there's never been
an actual story that's been told
1044
00:52:42,370 --> 00:52:44,831
that gave it the time
and attention
1045
00:52:44,873 --> 00:52:46,875
for it to be the truth.
1046
00:52:49,836 --> 00:52:51,713
I was never a teacher,
1047
00:52:51,755 --> 00:52:53,465
I was the director of
media services
1048
00:52:53,506 --> 00:52:57,886
for eleven schools,
one of which was the high school
1049
00:52:57,927 --> 00:53:01,181
which Bill Flynn and his friends
attended.
1050
00:53:01,222 --> 00:53:06,936
And we got involved in making
a commercial for a contest.
1051
00:53:06,978 --> 00:53:08,355
♪♪
1052
00:53:08,396 --> 00:53:09,898
- Man has enjoyed the taste
1053
00:53:09,939 --> 00:53:12,567
of pure and natural
Florida orange juice.
1054
00:53:12,609 --> 00:53:14,194
We start each day with...
1055
00:53:14,235 --> 00:53:17,405
(Pamela) He had a crush on me,
which I thought was cute,
1056
00:53:17,447 --> 00:53:19,199
but I really wasn't interested.
1057
00:53:19,240 --> 00:53:21,284
I was totally in love
with my husband.
1058
00:53:21,326 --> 00:53:23,703
But near Christmas time,
1059
00:53:23,745 --> 00:53:26,873
my husband cheated on me,
a one night stand.
1060
00:53:26,915 --> 00:53:29,584
And I was very sad.
1061
00:53:29,626 --> 00:53:32,212
And then when Bill Flynn
came into my life,
1062
00:53:32,253 --> 00:53:34,381
he presented himself as someone
1063
00:53:34,422 --> 00:53:37,550
who was extremely kind
and thoughtful.
1064
00:53:37,592 --> 00:53:41,554
And he made me
feel good about myself.
1065
00:53:41,596 --> 00:53:43,890
I knew it was wrong.
1066
00:53:43,932 --> 00:53:46,685
Like in my head I was saying,
no, this is wrong.
1067
00:53:46,726 --> 00:53:49,270
But inside my heart I liked him.
1068
00:53:49,312 --> 00:53:51,690
Never felt comfortable in it.
1069
00:53:51,731 --> 00:53:55,777
So after about eight weeks,
I ended the relationship.
1070
00:53:55,819 --> 00:53:59,698
I certainly didn't think that he
was going to go kill my husband.
1071
00:54:01,449 --> 00:54:03,660
Nobody really knew
about the relationship.
1072
00:54:03,702 --> 00:54:05,412
I was embarrassed about it.
1073
00:54:05,453 --> 00:54:08,998
And the only other person that
knew it was Cecelia Pierce.
1074
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,043
(lawyer) Did you ever see
any physical contact?
1075
00:54:12,085 --> 00:54:13,586
- Pam and Bill naked.
1076
00:54:13,628 --> 00:54:15,588
- And where were they?
- On the floor.
1077
00:54:15,630 --> 00:54:18,675
- In what room?
- In Gregg's bedroom.
1078
00:54:18,717 --> 00:54:21,970
- And what kind of position
were they in?
1079
00:54:22,971 --> 00:54:26,766
- Pam was on top of Bill.
1080
00:54:26,808 --> 00:54:28,560
- Who was Hayley?
- Pam's dog.
1081
00:54:28,601 --> 00:54:30,603
- Did she and Bill
ever discuss Hayley?
1082
00:54:30,645 --> 00:54:32,623
- She told Bill not to kill
Gregg in front of the dog
1083
00:54:32,647 --> 00:54:34,607
because it would
traumatize the dog.
1084
00:54:34,649 --> 00:54:36,526
- Something like that,
1085
00:54:36,568 --> 00:54:38,194
these kids couldn't
make that up.
1086
00:54:38,236 --> 00:54:39,904
I just didn't buy that.
1087
00:54:39,946 --> 00:54:43,116
- When did you start trying
to get a gun for Bill Flynn
1088
00:54:43,158 --> 00:54:45,035
to kill Gregg Smart with?
1089
00:54:46,536 --> 00:54:49,289
- I don't know when
the date was.
1090
00:54:49,330 --> 00:54:52,584
- You had this hear to heart
truthful conversation with
1091
00:54:52,625 --> 00:54:55,837
the police on June 14, 1990.
1092
00:54:55,879 --> 00:54:57,422
Did you discuss with the police
1093
00:54:57,464 --> 00:54:58,649
that you were trying
to get a firearm
1094
00:54:58,673 --> 00:55:01,384
to kill Gregg Smart?
1095
00:55:01,426 --> 00:55:04,012
- I don't remember.
- You don't remember?
1096
00:55:04,054 --> 00:55:06,181
Very selective memory.
Almost every question
1097
00:55:06,222 --> 00:55:10,185
the defense asked her, uh,
she couldn't remember.
1098
00:55:10,226 --> 00:55:12,520
"Oh, I can't remember.
I don't remember."
1099
00:55:12,562 --> 00:55:15,940
Cecelia Pierce helped Bill twice
1100
00:55:15,982 --> 00:55:19,819
trying to locate a gun to kill
Greggory Smart.
1101
00:55:19,861 --> 00:55:23,490
Does not that make Celia Pierce
1102
00:55:23,531 --> 00:55:24,991
an accessory to
first degree murder?
1103
00:55:25,033 --> 00:55:28,286
Doesn't it? Accessory?
1104
00:55:28,328 --> 00:55:30,080
(camera clicks)
1105
00:55:30,121 --> 00:55:31,849
(Mark) She was more important
to the prosecution
1106
00:55:31,873 --> 00:55:35,085
in the toolbox than
in the jailhouse.
1107
00:55:35,126 --> 00:55:37,379
Why was she saying
the things she was saying?
1108
00:55:37,420 --> 00:55:39,005
Those motivations,
quite frankly,
1109
00:55:39,047 --> 00:55:40,507
could be frightening.
1110
00:55:40,548 --> 00:55:44,010
(Tom) Well, Once Upon a Time
Productions, as I have here,
1111
00:55:44,052 --> 00:55:47,722
is a life story option
and purchase agreement.
1112
00:55:47,764 --> 00:55:49,891
Cecelia Pierce signed
this contract
1113
00:55:49,933 --> 00:55:52,310
for a movie deal
and sells her story.
1114
00:55:52,352 --> 00:55:55,522
This is dated
September 14, 1990,
1115
00:55:55,563 --> 00:55:56,648
and again right here.
1116
00:55:56,690 --> 00:55:59,067
Purchase price of $100,000.
1117
00:55:59,109 --> 00:56:00,944
- I heard about
the Pamela Smart story
1118
00:56:00,985 --> 00:56:02,963
the same way everybody else did,
I saw it on television,
1119
00:56:02,987 --> 00:56:05,949
I saw it in the news,
and it was one of those
1120
00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:07,590
stories that everybody
was talking about.
1121
00:56:07,617 --> 00:56:10,453
(reporter)
Tonight on "Hard Copy,"
1122
00:56:10,495 --> 00:56:13,707
one girl's secret,
1123
00:56:13,748 --> 00:56:17,711
And also, Elvis fights back.
1124
00:56:17,752 --> 00:56:20,922
Cecelia Pierce
was wired for murder.
1125
00:56:20,964 --> 00:56:22,858
(Cecelia) She said that
she was in love with Bill
1126
00:56:22,882 --> 00:56:25,135
and she had a choice,
she could either
1127
00:56:25,176 --> 00:56:27,595
divorce Gregg or kill him.
1128
00:56:27,637 --> 00:56:29,180
(Stan) She's so perfect.
1129
00:56:29,222 --> 00:56:31,641
If you were doing this movie
now, you'd just cast her.
1130
00:56:31,683 --> 00:56:33,059
Tim Thompson, who worked for me,
1131
00:56:33,101 --> 00:56:34,728
took her out for
ice cream in Derry,
1132
00:56:34,769 --> 00:56:37,147
Derry, New Hampshire,
to get her rights.
1133
00:56:37,188 --> 00:56:39,733
So I remember making the joke,
did you take her to Derry Queen?
1134
00:56:39,774 --> 00:56:41,943
And he thought that was stupid.
1135
00:56:41,985 --> 00:56:43,653
- But she said if
she divorced him,
1136
00:56:43,695 --> 00:56:44,946
he would follow her around
1137
00:56:44,988 --> 00:56:46,865
and she'd never have
another boyfriend.
1138
00:56:46,906 --> 00:56:49,117
And he would get the money,
1139
00:56:49,159 --> 00:56:50,910
the dog, the furniture
and the house.
1140
00:56:50,952 --> 00:56:54,080
- It took some convincing
to have Cecelia wear a wire.
1141
00:56:54,122 --> 00:56:57,250
I don't think she really wanted
to believe Pam was guilty.
1142
00:56:57,292 --> 00:57:00,170
(man) At first, she didn't
want to believe Pam's guilt.
1143
00:57:00,211 --> 00:57:03,757
And over the next year, she went
on television again and again
1144
00:57:03,798 --> 00:57:07,052
and again and again
proclaiming Pam's guilt.
1145
00:57:07,093 --> 00:57:09,429
- She picked Bill
out of all those boys,
1146
00:57:09,471 --> 00:57:13,141
and he trusted her a lot.
1147
00:57:13,183 --> 00:57:14,517
(Ted) How does this happen?
1148
00:57:14,559 --> 00:57:16,895
If I were doing
a reality TV show
1149
00:57:16,936 --> 00:57:19,856
and I wanted to turn a witness,
1150
00:57:19,898 --> 00:57:22,233
I would do something
very similar.
1151
00:57:22,275 --> 00:57:24,778
I'd put the wire on them,
I would put them
1152
00:57:24,819 --> 00:57:27,739
in the position of
an investigator.
1153
00:57:27,781 --> 00:57:29,383
- She couldn't get a divorce
because she wanted
1154
00:57:29,407 --> 00:57:30,867
the dog, the car...
1155
00:57:30,909 --> 00:57:34,204
The furniture, and the dog,
and she'd have money.
1156
00:57:34,245 --> 00:57:35,806
(Stan) You know
what's interesting, as these
1157
00:57:35,830 --> 00:57:38,958
interviews progressed,
she gets better at this.
1158
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,794
(Ted) Pam got guiltier
and guiltier.
1159
00:57:40,835 --> 00:57:44,130
You see that happen on
every reality TV show.
1160
00:57:44,172 --> 00:57:47,467
The more provocative they get,
the more their producer
1161
00:57:47,509 --> 00:57:49,135
tells them that
they're fantastic.
1162
00:57:49,177 --> 00:57:52,305
And people would love
to be fantastic.
1163
00:57:52,347 --> 00:57:54,974
- She'd be like, "Well, this
is what happened today.
1164
00:57:55,016 --> 00:57:57,811
Bill and I were talking,
and you can't find a silencer."
1165
00:57:57,852 --> 00:57:59,145
(Tom) Here you have a kid,
1166
00:57:59,187 --> 00:58:01,147
and all of a sudden
you're part of this
1167
00:58:01,189 --> 00:58:03,942
One of the biggest things
in television history,
1168
00:58:03,983 --> 00:58:07,487
the first televised trial
of this sensational murder.
1169
00:58:07,529 --> 00:58:08,822
I think that she got caught up
1170
00:58:08,863 --> 00:58:11,741
in that whole scene
of I'm important.
1171
00:58:11,783 --> 00:58:14,160
(Pelletier) She's turning
into a little star.
1172
00:58:14,202 --> 00:58:18,665
She definitely
liked the attention.
1173
00:58:18,707 --> 00:58:21,292
(Ted) There's a lot of people
who want that.
1174
00:58:21,334 --> 00:58:24,337
They wish that their television
show was on primetime.
1175
00:58:24,379 --> 00:58:29,009
We were seeing the petri dish
for what's happened today.
1176
00:58:29,050 --> 00:58:31,052
TV has gone from being something
1177
00:58:31,094 --> 00:58:34,723
that you watch to being
something that you're in.
1178
00:58:34,764 --> 00:58:37,809
The boys and Cecelia Pierce
1179
00:58:37,851 --> 00:58:40,979
were the first ones
to get that injection.
1180
00:58:41,021 --> 00:58:43,648
(Mark) It was attention that
that girl never would have
1181
00:58:43,690 --> 00:58:46,109
gotten in a million years.
1182
00:58:46,151 --> 00:58:48,820
You know, you would want
the witnesses to be
1183
00:58:48,862 --> 00:58:50,363
the most important players,
1184
00:58:50,405 --> 00:58:52,198
but in this particular case,
1185
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:56,202
they're not playing to
the true audience, the jury.
1186
00:58:56,244 --> 00:58:59,456
They may be playing
to mom and dad so that
1187
00:58:59,497 --> 00:59:02,792
when they go home at night
and they're eating supper,
1188
00:59:02,834 --> 00:59:04,461
they can turn on
Channel Nine news
1189
00:59:04,502 --> 00:59:07,047
and watch themself
on television.
1190
00:59:13,053 --> 00:59:14,637
(Richard) If you shift
the paradigm
1191
00:59:14,679 --> 00:59:19,351
for the trial to television,
a lot of things are different.
1192
00:59:20,894 --> 00:59:25,899
Someone has to put all
of that footage together.
1193
00:59:25,940 --> 00:59:30,320
Someone has to construct
the visual narrative.
1194
00:59:30,362 --> 00:59:32,238
I call it the God moment.
1195
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:37,035
(tapes whirring)
1196
00:59:37,077 --> 00:59:39,245
The moment when you intervene,
1197
00:59:39,287 --> 00:59:41,122
you make a cut.
1198
00:59:45,335 --> 00:59:46,920
You shift something.
1199
00:59:46,961 --> 00:59:49,673
- Why do you think he did it?
- I-I just feel
1200
00:59:49,714 --> 00:59:51,633
that someone made him do it.
1201
00:59:51,675 --> 00:59:53,385
(Richard) And all of a sudden,
1202
00:59:53,426 --> 00:59:58,264
you've seriously altered
the meaning of that image.
1203
00:59:58,306 --> 01:00:00,058
(Bill)
She sat almost motionless
1204
01:00:00,100 --> 01:00:01,976
as the young man her
defense attorneys
1205
01:00:02,018 --> 01:00:04,270
had portrayed as
a love struck thrill killer
1206
01:00:04,312 --> 01:00:05,939
took the witness stand.
1207
01:00:05,980 --> 01:00:08,233
- I feel like I want to reach
out and grab a hold of her
1208
01:00:08,274 --> 01:00:11,111
and just shake the living
life right out of her.
1209
01:00:11,152 --> 01:00:14,447
- 17-year-old Sarah Thomas also
testified that when she asked
1210
01:00:14,489 --> 01:00:17,659
Flynn if he was in love
with Pamela Smart, he said,
1211
01:00:17,701 --> 01:00:20,995
"I don't know,
but the sex is great."
1212
01:00:25,041 --> 01:00:27,168
(Pamela)
"How did you ever end up here?
1213
01:00:27,210 --> 01:00:28,962
"Came directly at me
like more of
1214
01:00:29,004 --> 01:00:30,964
"a declaration than a question.
1215
01:00:31,006 --> 01:00:33,633
"I will forever be haunted by
the knowledge that had
1216
01:00:33,675 --> 01:00:35,802
"I never become
involved with Bill,
1217
01:00:35,844 --> 01:00:38,221
"then Gregg would still
be alive today.
1218
01:00:38,263 --> 01:00:39,848
"Even though I didn't
pull the trigger,
1219
01:00:39,889 --> 01:00:43,727
my bad choices
helped load the gun."
1220
01:00:43,768 --> 01:00:46,438
- How do people respond?
1221
01:00:46,479 --> 01:00:49,649
- You were so uncomfortable
in exposing that piece.
1222
01:00:49,691 --> 01:00:51,443
You know, you said it.
You showed it.
1223
01:00:51,484 --> 01:00:53,903
You put the book up,
and I was wondering,
1224
01:00:53,945 --> 01:00:56,364
is it because you're
afraid that we won't
1225
01:00:56,406 --> 01:00:57,615
see you for who you are,
1226
01:00:57,657 --> 01:00:59,159
that we'll be like
everybody else?
1227
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,619
Like the media has portrayed
you, like you said,
1228
01:01:01,661 --> 01:01:04,289
this cold-hearted person.
1229
01:01:04,330 --> 01:01:06,332
- I guess it's just because
everything I say gets
1230
01:01:06,374 --> 01:01:09,502
misinterpreted so much
that tomorrow's headline
1231
01:01:09,544 --> 01:01:11,880
could be, "Pam Smart that
she loaded the gun."
1232
01:01:11,921 --> 01:01:13,840
And like I said, I knew better.
1233
01:01:13,882 --> 01:01:15,550
I-I remember saying,
this is wrong.
1234
01:01:15,592 --> 01:01:17,594
Why am I doing this,
you know what I'm saying?
1235
01:01:17,635 --> 01:01:19,530
But it was like when you're
still doing something
1236
01:01:19,554 --> 01:01:21,181
and you're saying this is wrong.
1237
01:01:21,222 --> 01:01:23,183
So I have to accept
responsibility
1238
01:01:23,224 --> 01:01:26,644
for the fact that it wasn't
like I was under some spell
1239
01:01:26,686 --> 01:01:29,272
where I didn't know that this
was wrong, I knew it was wrong.
1240
01:01:29,314 --> 01:01:32,692
- Who is the real Pam?
Who is the real Pam Smart?
1241
01:01:32,734 --> 01:01:34,027
- Well, I'm... I'm...
1242
01:01:34,069 --> 01:01:36,780
I'm the real...
I'm Pam Smart.
1243
01:01:36,821 --> 01:01:38,948
(laughter)
1244
01:01:38,990 --> 01:01:41,868
(overlapping chatter)
1245
01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:43,790
I'm not walking around...
I'm not walking around
1246
01:01:43,828 --> 01:01:46,039
with a mask on,
this is who I really am.
1247
01:01:46,081 --> 01:01:49,376
- I've looked her up,
I've been curious.
1248
01:01:49,417 --> 01:01:52,837
I've looked her up,
she shows up with
1249
01:01:52,879 --> 01:01:56,466
sexy Hollywood stars and vixens.
1250
01:01:56,508 --> 01:01:58,051
This is not her.
1251
01:01:58,093 --> 01:02:00,970
(indistinct chatter)
1252
01:02:01,012 --> 01:02:03,056
- First, this is
Van Halen Rocks.
1253
01:02:03,098 --> 01:02:05,517
We're gonna show our kids this,
they're probably gonna go,
1254
01:02:05,558 --> 01:02:08,186
"You liked those long-haired
hippie people?"
1255
01:02:08,228 --> 01:02:11,189
And we'll say,
yes, son and daughter.
1256
01:02:11,231 --> 01:02:12,816
Or I was a metalist once.
1257
01:02:12,857 --> 01:02:14,651
(woman)
Yes, my darling twin.
1258
01:02:14,693 --> 01:02:15,985
(indistinct chatter)
1259
01:02:16,027 --> 01:02:17,570
- That's the real Pam.
1260
01:02:17,612 --> 01:02:20,031
That is the real Pam that...
1261
01:02:20,073 --> 01:02:23,451
I hung out with
all the time regularly.
1262
01:02:23,493 --> 01:02:25,620
- Let us please demonstrate
what we're going to do
1263
01:02:25,662 --> 01:02:27,789
when Edward looks at the sign.
1264
01:02:27,831 --> 01:02:30,375
(all shrieking)
1265
01:02:30,417 --> 01:02:32,711
(Sonia)
She's very warm and loving.
1266
01:02:32,752 --> 01:02:34,379
You know, she was
kind of a geek,
1267
01:02:34,421 --> 01:02:37,048
and she was always
very good in school.
1268
01:02:37,090 --> 01:02:39,050
(Eleanor) I was at
Bedford Hills' inmate
1269
01:02:39,092 --> 01:02:41,302
education program,
and I assisted Pam
1270
01:02:41,344 --> 01:02:44,014
in achieving
two masters degrees.
1271
01:02:44,055 --> 01:02:46,016
One in criminal law,
1272
01:02:46,057 --> 01:02:48,143
and the other in
English literature.
1273
01:02:49,394 --> 01:02:52,939
The superintendent had
become extremely hostile,
1274
01:02:52,981 --> 01:02:54,441
consistent with the negativity
1275
01:02:54,482 --> 01:02:56,943
that always swirled around Pam.
1276
01:02:56,985 --> 01:02:59,195
And they took away from me
1277
01:02:59,237 --> 01:03:02,657
my books, and my pencils
and my pens.
1278
01:03:02,699 --> 01:03:04,367
So we talked,
1279
01:03:04,409 --> 01:03:06,870
and that was how I taught her.
1280
01:03:06,911 --> 01:03:08,371
And she had to absorb everything
1281
01:03:08,413 --> 01:03:10,915
I told her without the books.
1282
01:03:10,957 --> 01:03:16,463
She's the smartest student I've
ever had in my 34-year career
1283
01:03:16,504 --> 01:03:19,716
as a professor.
1284
01:03:19,758 --> 01:03:22,969
(Pamela) I felt really stupid
in the face of this
1285
01:03:23,011 --> 01:03:25,764
enormous system
that had taken my life.
1286
01:03:25,805 --> 01:03:30,185
And I decided that I couldn't
really fight back
1287
01:03:30,226 --> 01:03:31,895
without the proper tools.
1288
01:03:31,936 --> 01:03:34,856
I wanted to understand more
about what happened to me
1289
01:03:34,898 --> 01:03:38,026
and what I could do
to try to get out of here.
1290
01:03:38,068 --> 01:03:41,154
I was fighting for my life.
1291
01:03:41,196 --> 01:03:45,367
- On the outside, everybody
always... they think that
1292
01:03:45,408 --> 01:03:48,036
everybody in prison says
they didn't do it.
1293
01:03:48,078 --> 01:03:49,329
"Sure, everybody's innocent,
1294
01:03:49,371 --> 01:03:51,247
they didn't do it,
they didn't do it."
1295
01:03:51,289 --> 01:03:54,209
And that's not the case at all.
1296
01:03:54,250 --> 01:03:57,253
With the exception
of three women...
1297
01:03:57,295 --> 01:03:59,839
that's out and thousands
and thousands
1298
01:03:59,881 --> 01:04:01,883
out of the eight years
that I served,
1299
01:04:01,925 --> 01:04:06,054
I've only heard three women
say that they didn't do it.
1300
01:04:06,096 --> 01:04:09,349
So far, two out of
three of those women
1301
01:04:09,391 --> 01:04:13,228
have been proven innocent
and released.
1302
01:04:13,269 --> 01:04:15,980
The third and last one
is Pamela Smart.
1303
01:04:16,022 --> 01:04:18,775
(indistinct chatter)
1304
01:04:18,817 --> 01:04:20,419
- Do you swear the testimony
you're about to give today
1305
01:04:20,443 --> 01:04:22,112
is the truth, the whole truth,
1306
01:04:22,153 --> 01:04:23,673
and nothing but the truth
so help you God?
1307
01:04:23,697 --> 01:04:24,989
- I do.
1308
01:04:25,031 --> 01:04:26,574
(reporter)
Next witness was Pam Smart.
1309
01:04:26,616 --> 01:04:29,536
She's testifying as to
her side of the story.
1310
01:04:29,577 --> 01:04:32,622
(lawyer) You said when you heard
Bill Flynn was arrested,
1311
01:04:32,664 --> 01:04:35,208
"Oh, my God, they heard
about the affair,
1312
01:04:35,250 --> 01:04:37,043
they arrested the wrong person."
1313
01:04:37,085 --> 01:04:38,354
Of course, you went
right to the police
1314
01:04:38,378 --> 01:04:39,879
to straighten that out,
didn't you?
1315
01:04:39,921 --> 01:04:42,382
- No, because I thought if
the police knew that I had
1316
01:04:42,424 --> 01:04:44,193
an affair with Bill
then they would automatically
1317
01:04:44,217 --> 01:04:45,778
conclude that I was involved
in the murder.
1318
01:04:45,802 --> 01:04:48,138
- You did everything you could
cover up your relationship
1319
01:04:48,179 --> 01:04:49,556
with Bill Flynn.
- Yes, I did.
1320
01:04:49,597 --> 01:04:52,892
- And not only if you
told the police about
1321
01:04:52,934 --> 01:04:54,519
Bill Flynn
and your relationship,
1322
01:04:54,561 --> 01:04:56,396
that would give Bill Flynn
a connection
1323
01:04:56,438 --> 01:04:58,082
and a reason for
killing your husband, right?
1324
01:04:58,106 --> 01:04:59,607
- Right.
- And it'd also
1325
01:04:59,649 --> 01:05:02,402
give you a connection to
the murder of your husband
1326
01:05:02,444 --> 01:05:05,155
and to Bill Flynn if you told
them about be fair, right?
1327
01:05:05,196 --> 01:05:06,906
- Yes.
- And that's the real reason
1328
01:05:06,948 --> 01:05:09,826
you didn't want to talk
to the police about Bill Flynn
1329
01:05:09,868 --> 01:05:11,578
and the affair with you?
1330
01:05:11,619 --> 01:05:13,997
- The real reason is the truth,
which I just told you.
1331
01:05:14,039 --> 01:05:16,058
- The jury will determine
what's the truth, won't they?
1332
01:05:16,082 --> 01:05:17,852
- They certainly will, I hope...
- Are you afraid
1333
01:05:17,876 --> 01:05:20,378
that they're going to
decide it for themselves?
1334
01:05:20,420 --> 01:05:22,881
- I think the jury is going to
believe what the truth is.
1335
01:05:22,922 --> 01:05:24,966
- Okay.
- I believe in the jury system.
1336
01:05:25,008 --> 01:05:27,344
(Juror 13)
She was very believable.
1337
01:05:27,385 --> 01:05:29,637
I know I didn't believe
any of the boys
1338
01:05:29,679 --> 01:05:34,601
because they're criminals
and their story's discredited
1339
01:05:34,642 --> 01:05:37,103
and they've had time
and opportunity
1340
01:05:37,145 --> 01:05:38,980
and motive to build a story.
1341
01:05:39,022 --> 01:05:41,274
And I didn't believe Celia.
1342
01:05:41,316 --> 01:05:43,568
I think she was trying
to protect her ass because
1343
01:05:43,610 --> 01:05:46,863
she was definitely involved
as an accomplice.
1344
01:05:46,905 --> 01:05:53,536
If the police suspected me,
then I would protect,
1345
01:05:53,578 --> 01:05:56,623
like her, the fact that I had
1346
01:05:56,664 --> 01:05:59,084
an affair with the kid
who killed my husband.
1347
01:05:59,125 --> 01:06:00,669
Actually, those three tapes
1348
01:06:00,710 --> 01:06:02,671
are the only evidence
the state has against her.
1349
01:06:05,006 --> 01:06:06,817
- Your Honor, I would suggest
at this time that everyone
1350
01:06:06,841 --> 01:06:09,427
place on their earphones
and make sure they are on.
1351
01:06:09,469 --> 01:06:12,972
(reporter) Secretly obtained
taped conversations
1352
01:06:13,014 --> 01:06:15,183
between Pamela Smart
and Cecelia Pierce
1353
01:06:15,225 --> 01:06:17,143
are about to be played.
1354
01:06:17,185 --> 01:06:20,188
(dialing)
1355
01:06:20,230 --> 01:06:21,690
(dial tone)
1356
01:06:21,731 --> 01:06:23,775
(Pamela) Good afternoon,
media center.
1357
01:06:23,817 --> 01:06:26,111
- (indistinct)
- Uh, who's calling?
1358
01:06:26,152 --> 01:06:28,905
- It's Cecelia.
- Okay, uh, yeah.
1359
01:06:28,947 --> 01:06:30,615
- The tapes clearly show
1360
01:06:30,657 --> 01:06:33,535
she had planned the murder,
she knew what was going on.
1361
01:07:23,043 --> 01:07:24,544
(Alec) Damning.
Absolutely damning.
1362
01:07:24,586 --> 01:07:27,297
You know, you stop
the tape at that point
1363
01:07:27,339 --> 01:07:29,883
and look around the room
and say, "Can somebody
1364
01:07:29,924 --> 01:07:31,718
"find an alternate explanation
1365
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:33,887
of what she would
have meant by that?"
1366
01:07:33,928 --> 01:07:37,932
- Tell us about what leads
to the conversations
1367
01:07:37,974 --> 01:07:39,642
on the first tape,
what's going on.
1368
01:07:39,684 --> 01:07:42,645
- I mean, after the arrest
of the kids, Cecelia was
1369
01:07:42,687 --> 01:07:45,440
calling me on the phone,
and she was very nervous
1370
01:07:45,482 --> 01:07:48,360
and worried,
and she had asked me
1371
01:07:48,401 --> 01:07:50,362
did I know about
the murder beforehand.
1372
01:07:50,403 --> 01:07:53,073
And initially I had said no.
1373
01:07:53,114 --> 01:07:59,079
And then she made a statement to
me that if I knew more about it,
1374
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,623
that as long as I told her that,
1375
01:08:01,664 --> 01:08:05,335
she wouldn't tell anyone and
that we had to stick together.
1376
01:08:05,377 --> 01:08:08,004
- So what did you do?
- I figured that
1377
01:08:08,046 --> 01:08:10,423
if she knew more
about the murder
1378
01:08:10,465 --> 01:08:14,511
then she would tell me if I
acted like I knew more about it.
1379
01:08:18,181 --> 01:08:20,183
(Pamela) I really thought,
I really thought
1380
01:08:20,225 --> 01:08:21,601
that they had the wrong person,
1381
01:08:21,643 --> 01:08:23,162
that they found out about
this relationship
1382
01:08:23,186 --> 01:08:26,314
and they'd jumped to this
conclusion because there was
1383
01:08:26,356 --> 01:08:27,899
no evidence, so to speak,
1384
01:08:27,941 --> 01:08:31,403
that was coming out through...
a police telling me.
1385
01:08:32,821 --> 01:08:36,116
My main thing at that time
was trying to figure out
1386
01:08:36,157 --> 01:08:37,951
did he really do this?
1387
01:08:37,992 --> 01:08:41,788
Because I guess in my heart,
I wanted it so not to be true.
1388
01:08:41,830 --> 01:08:44,457
I wanted anybody, anywhere
to give me any information
1389
01:08:44,499 --> 01:08:47,002
that I could to help get
the answer to this one question
1390
01:08:47,043 --> 01:08:49,421
of did he really do this?
1391
01:08:49,462 --> 01:08:51,631
I told Gregg's
best friend, actually.
1392
01:08:51,673 --> 01:08:55,969
- What she said to me was,
"I wonder if I act like
1393
01:08:56,011 --> 01:08:59,305
I know something about this
if they'll say something to me."
1394
01:08:59,347 --> 01:09:01,391
- What di... did you
respond to that?
1395
01:09:01,433 --> 01:09:02,976
- Yeah.
- What did you tell her?
1396
01:09:03,018 --> 01:09:07,439
- I told her not to be an idiot,
but I used a different word.
1397
01:09:07,480 --> 01:09:10,316
- "Don't be an asshole."
1398
01:09:10,358 --> 01:09:13,153
- I will never forget the tapes
for the rest of my life.
1399
01:09:13,194 --> 01:09:14,738
(chuckling)
1400
01:09:14,779 --> 01:09:18,491
I usually have
an Anglo-Saxon word
1401
01:09:18,533 --> 01:09:20,785
I put between thought
and tapes, but, um...
1402
01:09:20,827 --> 01:09:26,499
- I called my lawyer
and he said, "Whatever you do,
1403
01:09:26,541 --> 01:09:30,128
don't talk to Cecelia Pierce,
she's going to be wired."
1404
01:09:30,170 --> 01:09:31,504
And I said, okay.
1405
01:09:31,546 --> 01:09:34,382
And I hung up the phone
and I called her.
1406
01:09:34,424 --> 01:09:37,635
That's the truth.
Exactly what happened.
1407
01:09:38,803 --> 01:09:39,971
I was not sleeping,
1408
01:09:40,013 --> 01:09:42,891
I was over exhausted
mentally and physically.
1409
01:09:42,932 --> 01:09:48,730
A psychiatrist put me on Prozac,
and he put me on a lot of it.
1410
01:09:48,772 --> 01:09:50,982
I was both going through
depressive states
1411
01:09:51,024 --> 01:09:53,860
and I was also going
through like manic states.
1412
01:09:53,902 --> 01:09:56,071
I just didn't care.
I just wanted to know
1413
01:09:56,112 --> 01:10:00,033
so bad that I didn't care.
1414
01:10:00,075 --> 01:10:03,453
And then Cecelia Pierce would
be spilling out pieces of
1415
01:10:03,495 --> 01:10:05,415
information here and there
and saying, "Oh, well,
1416
01:10:05,455 --> 01:10:07,123
I heard this or I heard that."
1417
01:10:07,165 --> 01:10:11,378
So I felt like I had to get
information out of her.
1418
01:10:26,476 --> 01:10:28,436
Yeah, that I definitely said
1419
01:10:28,478 --> 01:10:30,939
because I was talking to her
about the affair.
1420
01:10:30,980 --> 01:10:35,151
And next thing you know it's on
a big poster board saying,
1421
01:10:35,193 --> 01:10:38,321
"Oh, I was... she was talking
about the murder here."
1422
01:10:38,363 --> 01:10:40,907
And I'm like, no, I wasn't,
because there were pieces that
1423
01:10:40,949 --> 01:10:44,077
were before that or after that
that are gone.
1424
01:10:44,119 --> 01:10:47,664
And conveniently,
and there's this whole section
1425
01:10:47,706 --> 01:10:49,249
on the transcripts
and it'll say,
1426
01:10:49,290 --> 01:10:50,917
"Inaudible, inaudible,
1427
01:10:50,959 --> 01:10:53,586
inaudible," and then
here comes this line
1428
01:10:53,628 --> 01:10:55,422
out of nowhere or something,
and it's like,
1429
01:10:55,463 --> 01:10:56,756
wait a minute,
1430
01:10:56,798 --> 01:10:59,009
what was all
the inaudible stuff?
1431
01:11:01,428 --> 01:11:03,114
(reporter) Last I heard,
Spencer does not have
1432
01:11:03,138 --> 01:11:05,098
the transcripts yet,
they are not out yet...
1433
01:11:05,140 --> 01:11:06,641
repeat, not out yet.
1434
01:11:10,478 --> 01:11:12,480
(Bill) The quality
was just so bad,
1435
01:11:12,522 --> 01:11:15,650
you don't want to hear
words... every other,
1436
01:11:15,692 --> 01:11:18,278
or every fifth word
you could hear,
1437
01:11:18,319 --> 01:11:19,779
the rest of it's
garbled so much,
1438
01:11:19,821 --> 01:11:22,782
you can't really tell
what she's... what she's saying.
1439
01:11:22,824 --> 01:11:26,995
- If you're going to consider
listening to a conversation
1440
01:11:27,037 --> 01:11:30,957
and all you are able to hear
are bits and pieces
1441
01:11:30,999 --> 01:11:34,627
without knowing what else
has been said before,
1442
01:11:34,669 --> 01:11:36,296
in the middle, or after,
1443
01:11:36,338 --> 01:11:41,343
what you hear is not necessarily
a reflection of the truth.
1444
01:11:41,384 --> 01:11:42,677
It's simply a reflection of
1445
01:11:42,719 --> 01:11:45,764
the little bits and pieces
that you heard.
1446
01:11:45,805 --> 01:11:48,016
(Paul M.) These were
told to me at the time
1447
01:11:48,058 --> 01:11:50,143
to be a very significant piece
of evidence.
1448
01:11:50,185 --> 01:11:52,312
And when we first...
when I first listened to them
1449
01:11:52,354 --> 01:11:54,147
in a car ride with
my co counsel,
1450
01:11:54,189 --> 01:11:56,566
I was extremely depressed
because you couldn't make out
1451
01:11:56,608 --> 01:11:58,735
heads nor tails of
what was being said.
1452
01:11:58,777 --> 01:12:01,988
And I really thought they
were gonna be useless until
1453
01:12:02,030 --> 01:12:05,075
we hired an enhancer,
an expert out of Connecticut
1454
01:12:05,116 --> 01:12:07,786
who actually took the tapes,
got rid of the background noise,
1455
01:12:07,827 --> 01:12:10,789
enhanced the sound,
where you then could actually
1456
01:12:10,830 --> 01:12:13,667
sit down and hear what
Pam Smart was saying
1457
01:12:13,708 --> 01:12:15,669
and what Cecelia Pierce
was saying.
1458
01:12:15,710 --> 01:12:19,214
But that was very painstaking
because you had to listen
1459
01:12:19,255 --> 01:12:22,384
to each word four and five times
1460
01:12:22,425 --> 01:12:24,052
before we can get
an accurate transcript.
1461
01:12:26,262 --> 01:12:28,973
The person who prepared
the transcript, by the way,
1462
01:12:29,015 --> 01:12:31,851
there's qualifications to do so,
I don't know.
1463
01:12:31,893 --> 01:12:34,771
In most cases, you would want
a qualified audiologist
1464
01:12:34,813 --> 01:12:38,775
to do this, but...
but this stenographer
1465
01:12:38,817 --> 01:12:41,986
tried to figure out
what was said.
1466
01:12:42,028 --> 01:12:46,408
(distorted audio)
1467
01:12:48,576 --> 01:12:51,788
(distorted audio continues)
1468
01:12:57,043 --> 01:12:59,063
(lawyer) "Did you see,
now seeing what had happened,
1469
01:12:59,087 --> 01:13:01,631
"wouldn't you have rather have
just divorced Gregg?
1470
01:13:01,673 --> 01:13:03,633
"Well, I don't know, you know,
1471
01:13:03,675 --> 01:13:07,303
nothing was going wrong
until after they told Ralph."
1472
01:13:07,345 --> 01:13:11,725
(Robert J.) Those transcripts
become taken as gospel
1473
01:13:11,766 --> 01:13:14,602
and then treated as if
they were the tapes.
1474
01:13:14,644 --> 01:13:16,146
- "Remember that time
you let Phil
1475
01:13:16,187 --> 01:13:17,331
use your car to go up there?"
1476
01:13:17,355 --> 01:13:18,416
"Where?" "Up to you house?"
1477
01:13:18,440 --> 01:13:19,816
"Yeah."
"Well, that time,"
1478
01:13:19,858 --> 01:13:21,127
"if he hadn't forgotten
directions,
1479
01:13:21,151 --> 01:13:22,569
he could have killed
Gregg then..."
1480
01:13:22,610 --> 01:13:24,070
"I know."
1481
01:13:24,112 --> 01:13:26,197
(Pamela) "Pam said this
then Cecelia said this,"
1482
01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:28,033
then Pam said this,
then Cecel..."
1483
01:13:28,074 --> 01:13:29,909
Like, that's how
it looks on paper.
1484
01:13:29,951 --> 01:13:32,787
When someone is talking,
the other person is saying,
1485
01:13:32,829 --> 01:13:35,874
"Okay, yeah, mm-hmm,
whate..." you know?
1486
01:13:35,915 --> 01:13:38,835
But on paper, it looks like
she makes a statement,
1487
01:13:38,877 --> 01:13:40,754
and I say, oh, yes!
1488
01:13:40,795 --> 01:13:42,964
- What does Cecelia Pierce say?
1489
01:13:43,006 --> 01:13:45,800
"If Raymond hadn't run his
friggin' mouth off,
1490
01:13:45,842 --> 01:13:47,802
this would have been
the perfect murder."
1491
01:13:47,844 --> 01:13:50,805
What does the defendant say?
"Right."
1492
01:13:50,847 --> 01:13:55,518
She says, "He's going to say
he knew about it beforehand,
1493
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:57,812
which is the truth."
"Right..."
1494
01:13:57,854 --> 01:13:59,790
(Robert J.) And look,
let's not lose sight of the fact
1495
01:13:59,814 --> 01:14:05,612
that none of those issues
of the enhancement were
1496
01:14:05,653 --> 01:14:07,697
the subject of expert testimony
1497
01:14:07,739 --> 01:14:10,116
on behalf of the defense
at the trial.
1498
01:14:10,158 --> 01:14:12,202
(Pamela) At the time,
my attorneys told me,
1499
01:14:12,243 --> 01:14:15,163
"Well, if you want to get
a tape expert, that's gonna
1500
01:14:15,205 --> 01:14:16,956
cost like, $15,000."
1501
01:14:16,998 --> 01:14:20,752
And I was struggling
to pay them as it was.
1502
01:14:20,794 --> 01:14:23,129
This wasn't an instance where
I was some kind of
1503
01:14:23,171 --> 01:14:27,926
celebrity client that could
have a dream team assembled
1504
01:14:27,967 --> 01:14:32,055
to help me point out everything
about the evidence.
1505
01:14:32,097 --> 01:14:34,808
And I couldn't afford it,
I could not afford it,
1506
01:14:34,849 --> 01:14:36,810
it like many people can't
when they're up against
1507
01:14:36,851 --> 01:14:38,144
the criminal justice system,
1508
01:14:38,186 --> 01:14:40,897
and I wasn't able to get
a tape expert.
1509
01:14:43,274 --> 01:14:48,071
(Juror 13) The tapes,
they're contradicting.
1510
01:14:48,113 --> 01:14:52,534
It sounded, you know,
incriminating.
1511
01:14:52,575 --> 01:14:54,703
But if you believe her story,
1512
01:14:54,744 --> 01:14:56,371
that would explain the tapes.
1513
01:14:56,413 --> 01:15:00,792
I'm not saying I believe it,
but it's a possibility.
1514
01:15:00,834 --> 01:15:02,520
Now, Pam doesn't have
to prove she's innocent.
1515
01:15:02,544 --> 01:15:04,212
The state has to prove
she's guilty
1516
01:15:04,254 --> 01:15:08,049
beyond a reasonable doubt,
and that creates a big doubt
1517
01:15:08,091 --> 01:15:11,469
on the one piece of evidence
that will get her.
1518
01:15:11,511 --> 01:15:13,471
(sighs)
1519
01:15:13,513 --> 01:15:16,391
Somewhere lies the truth,
1520
01:15:16,433 --> 01:15:18,601
and we're never gonna know,
really, what it is.
1521
01:15:18,643 --> 01:15:20,687
(sighs)
1522
01:15:20,729 --> 01:15:23,148
Tough call.
1523
01:15:25,150 --> 01:15:27,027
You are innocent
1524
01:15:27,068 --> 01:15:31,906
until proven guilty beyond
a reasonable doubt.
1525
01:15:33,241 --> 01:15:34,284
(bailiff) All rise.
1526
01:15:37,620 --> 01:15:39,956
(reporter) As of 2:32
on the afternoon of
1527
01:15:39,998 --> 01:15:43,460
March 20, 1991,
the fate of Pamela Smart
1528
01:15:43,501 --> 01:15:45,378
rests in the hands of the jury.
1529
01:15:45,420 --> 01:15:48,506
(Bill) Normally it would
just be 12 jurors judging,
1530
01:15:48,548 --> 01:15:50,884
now it's all of New England.
1531
01:15:50,925 --> 01:15:53,029
Everyday people are making up
their minds who's guilty,
1532
01:15:53,053 --> 01:15:55,472
who's innocent,
and they're focusing in on
1533
01:15:55,513 --> 01:15:56,973
the key characters,
1534
01:15:57,015 --> 01:15:59,059
who they like,
who they don't like.
1535
01:15:59,100 --> 01:16:00,745
(Judy Smart) I think she's
a very cold person
1536
01:16:00,769 --> 01:16:04,147
and I thinks she's guilty
and I'll get out.
1537
01:16:04,189 --> 01:16:06,983
- For weeks,
the jurors had gone home
1538
01:16:07,025 --> 01:16:08,860
every night after testimony.
1539
01:16:08,902 --> 01:16:12,405
- Did they go home and watch
coverage after the fact
1540
01:16:12,447 --> 01:16:13,698
on the evening news?
1541
01:16:13,740 --> 01:16:15,033
Maybe. Who knows?
1542
01:16:15,075 --> 01:16:16,594
Did they read something
in the newspaper?
1543
01:16:16,618 --> 01:16:18,244
Maybe.
Who knows?
1544
01:16:18,286 --> 01:16:21,206
- The jury should only hear
evidence that's admissible.
1545
01:16:21,247 --> 01:16:24,042
It shouldn't be
watching videotape
1546
01:16:24,084 --> 01:16:27,754
of the victim's parents praying
at the grave of the victim.
1547
01:16:27,796 --> 01:16:29,297
(Bill Smart)
We visited the grave
1548
01:16:29,339 --> 01:16:31,925
this morning and spent
ten minutes crying
1549
01:16:31,966 --> 01:16:34,010
before we came here.
- And praying.
1550
01:16:34,052 --> 01:16:36,304
- And praying to God
that justice is served.
1551
01:16:36,346 --> 01:16:39,808
- And it shouldn't know what
the people out there think
1552
01:16:39,849 --> 01:16:40,975
the result is going to be.
1553
01:16:41,017 --> 01:16:42,811
- She was too much
of an ice woman.
1554
01:16:42,852 --> 01:16:44,813
- Had no emotion.
For no emotion,
1555
01:16:44,854 --> 01:16:46,815
you have to be guilty
of something like that.
1556
01:16:46,856 --> 01:16:50,402
(Robert J.)
The headlines on TV, on radio
1557
01:16:50,443 --> 01:16:53,655
all predicted that
Pam would be found guilty
1558
01:16:53,697 --> 01:16:55,615
of the crimes of which
she was charged.
1559
01:16:55,657 --> 01:16:59,119
- Most of what was in the press,
and most of what was on the TV
1560
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:00,537
are just replays
of what happened
1561
01:17:00,578 --> 01:17:01,597
during the day in the courtroom.
1562
01:17:01,621 --> 01:17:03,957
So there was no polls going on.
1563
01:17:03,998 --> 01:17:06,292
"We think she's guilty,
we think she's not guilty."
1564
01:17:06,334 --> 01:17:08,094
Call in, how many people
think she's guilty?"
1565
01:17:08,128 --> 01:17:10,839
I mean, there wasn't
none of that.
1566
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:12,483
(automated voice)
Do you believe Pamela Smart
1567
01:17:12,507 --> 01:17:14,634
was involved in the plot
to kill her husband?
1568
01:17:14,676 --> 01:17:17,178
For yes, press 1.
1569
01:17:24,519 --> 01:17:26,079
(Alan) Juries shouldn't
go into that box
1570
01:17:26,104 --> 01:17:29,941
wondering how and whether
they'll be made to look like
1571
01:17:29,983 --> 01:17:31,860
fools if they come to one result
1572
01:17:31,901 --> 01:17:34,320
rather than the other,
whether they'll be able to speak
1573
01:17:34,362 --> 01:17:36,007
and hold their heads up
in their community.
1574
01:17:36,031 --> 01:17:37,383
They ought to be making
an independent judgment,
1575
01:17:37,407 --> 01:17:39,451
not reflecting what
the rest of us think.
1576
01:17:44,497 --> 01:17:50,420
- In any notorious case,
when the very fact of the charge
1577
01:17:50,462 --> 01:17:52,756
implicates some profound taboo,
1578
01:17:52,797 --> 01:17:56,343
the usual burden of proof,
1579
01:17:56,384 --> 01:18:00,347
my client is presumed innocent,
is off the table.
1580
01:18:00,388 --> 01:18:06,978
The Pamela Smart case
clearly is evoking
1581
01:18:07,020 --> 01:18:10,732
a degree of taboo,
1582
01:18:10,774 --> 01:18:14,319
titillation, the abuse of power.
1583
01:18:14,361 --> 01:18:17,364
You can arouse that titillation
and come out with
1584
01:18:17,405 --> 01:18:22,535
completely clean conscience
if you can condemn the source
1585
01:18:22,577 --> 01:18:25,038
under the rule of law.
1586
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:28,291
(Stan) Part of a good story
is a good ending.
1587
01:18:28,333 --> 01:18:30,919
And we think she did it,
and we like that she did it,
1588
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:32,104
and we like that she got caught.
1589
01:18:32,128 --> 01:18:34,297
(juror) Guilty, Your Honor.
1590
01:18:34,339 --> 01:18:36,257
(courtroom cheering)
1591
01:18:36,299 --> 01:18:39,594
(Ted) Kill the bitch,
lock the door,
1592
01:18:39,636 --> 01:18:41,888
throw away the key.
1593
01:18:41,930 --> 01:18:43,890
I feel good, I feel good.
1594
01:18:43,932 --> 01:18:46,393
Justice was done.
1595
01:18:46,434 --> 01:18:48,353
- She pays for our sins.
1596
01:18:48,395 --> 01:18:53,400
♪♪
1597
01:19:01,408 --> 01:19:02,867
(reporter) A verdict
has been reached
1598
01:19:02,909 --> 01:19:04,536
in the Pamela Smart trial
here in Exeter.
1599
01:19:04,577 --> 01:19:06,830
We have carried live coverage
throughout this trial
1600
01:19:06,871 --> 01:19:08,557
and I think we can say
we were the first to tell you
1601
01:19:08,581 --> 01:19:11,292
that the verdict was reached
at about quarter of 1:00.
1602
01:19:11,334 --> 01:19:13,437
The green light went off,
the bailiff went running in.
1603
01:19:13,461 --> 01:19:15,630
The parties were rounded up.
Barry Peacock,
1604
01:19:15,672 --> 01:19:17,841
the head bailiff came out
to bring that verdict...
1605
01:19:17,882 --> 01:19:19,592
(indistinct chatter)
1606
01:19:19,634 --> 01:19:20,844
Now we're gonna go upstairs,
1607
01:19:20,885 --> 01:19:22,470
we have a courtroom shot,
I believe.
1608
01:19:22,512 --> 01:19:24,389
We are waiting to
bring you the verdict live.
1609
01:19:24,431 --> 01:19:26,111
(female reporter)
The jury is entering now.
1610
01:19:26,141 --> 01:19:28,435
We've just seen the defendant
and her lawyer stand,
1611
01:19:28,476 --> 01:19:31,771
so we know the jury is now
returning to the jury box.
1612
01:19:31,813 --> 01:19:33,940
As soon as they are
in their places,
1613
01:19:33,982 --> 01:19:36,109
we know we'll see
the entire courtroom rise.
1614
01:19:36,151 --> 01:19:40,447
We just heard Judge Grey
is entering.
1615
01:19:40,488 --> 01:19:45,452
He will be asking for
the jury verdict on the charges.
1616
01:19:45,493 --> 01:19:48,830
- Will the defendant please
rise and face the jury?
1617
01:19:50,165 --> 01:19:52,792
Madam forelady,
would you please stand?
1618
01:19:52,834 --> 01:19:54,461
Has the jury reached a verdict
1619
01:19:54,502 --> 01:19:56,087
on each of the three
offenses charged?
1620
01:19:56,129 --> 01:19:59,424
- Yes, we have
- On case number 90S1371,
1621
01:19:59,466 --> 01:20:01,134
which charges a defendant
with a crime of
1622
01:20:01,176 --> 01:20:02,844
accomplice to
first degree murder,
1623
01:20:02,886 --> 01:20:04,846
how say you,
the defendant guilty
1624
01:20:04,888 --> 01:20:06,473
or not guilty of
the offense charged?
1625
01:20:06,514 --> 01:20:10,769
- Guilty.
- (Courtroom exclaims)
1626
01:20:10,810 --> 01:20:12,395
- Pamela Smart,
1627
01:20:12,437 --> 01:20:17,400
on indictment 1371,
charging you with the offense
1628
01:20:17,442 --> 01:20:19,736
of accomplice to
first degree murder
1629
01:20:19,778 --> 01:20:21,363
on the jury's verdict of guilty
1630
01:20:21,404 --> 01:20:23,073
and in accordance
with the mandates of
1631
01:20:23,114 --> 01:20:26,242
our state legislature,
I am required and do hereby
1632
01:20:26,284 --> 01:20:27,678
sentence you to
the New Hampshire State Prison
1633
01:20:27,702 --> 01:20:30,205
for women for the remainder
of your life
1634
01:20:30,246 --> 01:20:32,624
without the possibility
of parole.
1635
01:20:38,755 --> 01:20:40,799
♪♪
1636
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:44,094
(Pamela) I don't need the world
to tell me that if I never
1637
01:20:44,135 --> 01:20:46,012
had a relationship with Bill,
1638
01:20:46,054 --> 01:20:48,848
Gregg would probably
still be alive.
1639
01:20:48,890 --> 01:20:51,267
I know that myself.
1640
01:20:51,309 --> 01:20:53,228
Whoever thinks that
I don't know that
1641
01:20:53,269 --> 01:20:57,232
every day of my life
is so wrong.
1642
01:20:57,273 --> 01:20:59,067
They're so wrong.
1643
01:21:04,531 --> 01:21:06,366
I think a lot about what
my life would be like
1644
01:21:06,408 --> 01:21:09,119
if this had never happened.
1645
01:21:10,745 --> 01:21:13,081
Would I have children right now?
1646
01:21:13,123 --> 01:21:15,333
What would our life be like?
1647
01:21:18,753 --> 01:21:22,674
(Alec) The great injustice to me
is that she's in jail forever
1648
01:21:22,716 --> 01:21:25,260
and the kids who actually
perpetrated the crime
1649
01:21:25,301 --> 01:21:27,220
will get out of jail.
1650
01:21:27,262 --> 01:21:30,348
By sort of any measure,
that's not fair.
1651
01:21:30,390 --> 01:21:33,393
But that's, again,
the way the system works.
1652
01:21:33,435 --> 01:21:36,980
So the system did what
the system does.
1653
01:21:37,022 --> 01:21:41,234
- Her sentence is life without
the possibility of parole.
1654
01:21:41,276 --> 01:21:45,155
Even Charles Manson
doesn't have that sentence.
1655
01:21:48,283 --> 01:21:52,996
- This is, um, July 1991,
1656
01:21:53,038 --> 01:21:55,707
and the trial is all over
1657
01:21:55,749 --> 01:21:57,751
by three or four months.
1658
01:21:57,792 --> 01:22:00,712
I had no idea,
and I'm not the only one
1659
01:22:00,754 --> 01:22:03,173
because the judge came in,
sentence terms,
1660
01:22:03,214 --> 01:22:05,091
mandatory in the state
of New Hampshire,
1661
01:22:05,133 --> 01:22:07,302
life in prison with no parole.
1662
01:22:07,344 --> 01:22:09,220
And I'm telling you,
1663
01:22:09,262 --> 01:22:10,764
not a dry eye in that jury room
1664
01:22:10,805 --> 01:22:13,391
and that's God's honest truth
that I saw.
1665
01:22:13,433 --> 01:22:17,604
And even the ones who were
like, arguing adamantly
1666
01:22:17,645 --> 01:22:19,814
that she's guilty,
and then there were three of us
1667
01:22:19,856 --> 01:22:23,026
who argued adamantly
that she wasn't,
1668
01:22:23,068 --> 01:22:24,694
and I was one of them.
1669
01:22:24,736 --> 01:22:27,030
But life was no parole,
1670
01:22:27,072 --> 01:22:28,948
she, you know,
1671
01:22:28,990 --> 01:22:31,284
that's forever, that's not fair.
1672
01:22:31,326 --> 01:22:34,329
And you know, I really believe
that I would have hung
1673
01:22:34,371 --> 01:22:37,290
that jury because I was
damn close to doing it anyway
1674
01:22:37,332 --> 01:22:40,460
had I know what this sentence
was going to be.
1675
01:22:40,502 --> 01:22:46,341
I'm not responsible for what
I was to consider as evidence.
1676
01:22:46,383 --> 01:22:49,636
I had no control over evidence
that was given.
1677
01:22:49,678 --> 01:22:52,472
I believe there's so much
that no one knows
1678
01:22:52,514 --> 01:22:56,101
and we'll probably never know.
1679
01:22:57,602 --> 01:23:00,271
- (deep breath)
1680
01:23:03,233 --> 01:23:04,585
(director) Do you wanna
get more specific?
1681
01:23:04,609 --> 01:23:06,736
- No, no, I'm not...
I'm telling you,
1682
01:23:06,778 --> 01:23:09,406
this summer, there's gonna
be some incredible stuff
1683
01:23:09,447 --> 01:23:11,533
coming out, but I want
the attorneys to release it,
1684
01:23:11,574 --> 01:23:13,368
not me.
1685
01:23:13,410 --> 01:23:16,705
I think Fowler will
tell us what happened
1686
01:23:16,746 --> 01:23:18,164
when his parole is done,
1687
01:23:18,206 --> 01:23:20,834
and new information
will come out.
1688
01:23:20,875 --> 01:23:22,585
We'll leave it at that.
1689
01:23:22,627 --> 01:23:25,505
- Raymond Fowler's family,
including his brother, has said
1690
01:23:25,547 --> 01:23:29,718
for many years that the state
wants him to stay silent.
1691
01:23:29,759 --> 01:23:33,555
And I believe that even
at one point on his website,
1692
01:23:33,596 --> 01:23:37,642
they had some kind of quote
saying that if he spoke,
1693
01:23:37,684 --> 01:23:41,104
he would blow the case
against me wide open.
1694
01:23:54,743 --> 01:23:57,203
(director) She's still...
you know, like you,
1695
01:23:57,245 --> 01:23:59,748
been claiming her innocence
to this day.
1696
01:23:59,789 --> 01:24:01,708
Do you think there's
any validity in that?
1697
01:24:05,879 --> 01:24:07,589
- Uh...
1698
01:24:08,882 --> 01:24:12,886
From what I've seen,
1699
01:24:12,927 --> 01:24:15,055
um...
1700
01:24:15,096 --> 01:24:19,184
what I've seen from
her actions is
1701
01:24:19,225 --> 01:24:22,395
I believe that
1702
01:24:22,437 --> 01:24:25,106
her getting found guilty
is right.
1703
01:24:27,484 --> 01:24:29,277
I remember being in the plaza.
1704
01:24:29,319 --> 01:24:31,404
I remember being there
the month before.
1705
01:24:31,446 --> 01:24:36,576
So it kind of clicked in my head
of, hey, wait a minute,
1706
01:24:36,618 --> 01:24:38,578
this is... looks
kinda familiar.
1707
01:24:40,789 --> 01:24:44,542
Billy come in and says that
this girl said we can
1708
01:24:44,584 --> 01:24:46,437
break into her house
and take whatever we wanted to
1709
01:24:46,461 --> 01:24:49,589
and she wanted to have her
husband get killed or something.
1710
01:24:49,631 --> 01:24:51,800
I wasn't really listening
to too much of that.
1711
01:24:51,841 --> 01:24:53,802
I was thinking of more
just breaking in the house.
1712
01:24:57,138 --> 01:24:59,099
And Billy says, "Come on,
1713
01:24:59,140 --> 01:25:00,517
we're gonna go do
that tonight."
1714
01:25:00,558 --> 01:25:04,270
So I went with him,
went over to Winnacunnet,
1715
01:25:04,312 --> 01:25:07,982
picked up Pam's car,
her Honda CRX.
1716
01:25:08,024 --> 01:25:09,734
I didn't know anywhere...
1717
01:25:09,776 --> 01:25:11,778
where I'm going,
where I'm at, nothing.
1718
01:25:11,820 --> 01:25:13,363
So he told me to
pull in the plaza,
1719
01:25:13,405 --> 01:25:15,573
I pull in the plaza,
and Billy just said,
1720
01:25:15,615 --> 01:25:17,492
"Oh, we can't do nothing.
He's home.
1721
01:25:19,327 --> 01:25:22,789
So we got back...
(indistinct)
1722
01:25:22,831 --> 01:25:24,791
to the media center.
1723
01:25:24,833 --> 01:25:26,501
(projector whirring)
1724
01:25:35,468 --> 01:25:38,847
You notice in the testimony,
1725
01:25:38,888 --> 01:25:42,851
he said that we waited outside
in the car and she came out.
1726
01:25:42,892 --> 01:25:44,894
But in the movie,
they're showing him...
1727
01:25:44,936 --> 01:25:49,566
us walking inside
of the media center.
1728
01:25:49,607 --> 01:25:51,609
And if you listen to what
she says in here
1729
01:25:51,651 --> 01:25:53,671
about saying hi to me,
this is what I said happened.
1730
01:25:53,695 --> 01:25:56,322
- Hi, Raymond.
1731
01:25:56,364 --> 01:25:57,741
So did you do it?
1732
01:25:57,782 --> 01:26:00,326
(director) This is your
version of the story?
1733
01:26:00,368 --> 01:26:02,662
(Raymond)
Um, to a point.
1734
01:26:02,704 --> 01:26:05,498
I mean, I didn't go inside
of the media place.
1735
01:26:05,540 --> 01:26:08,126
We picked her up,
she got in the car.
1736
01:26:08,168 --> 01:26:11,004
I get in the back,
and she would...
1737
01:26:11,046 --> 01:26:13,798
literally just kind of
flipped right out on Billy.
1738
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:16,092
Screaming at him,
swearing at him.
1739
01:26:16,134 --> 01:26:17,361
"What do you mean
you got lost?"
1740
01:26:17,385 --> 01:26:18,571
And she says,
"Did you get a gun?"
1741
01:26:18,595 --> 01:26:20,013
And he says,
"No, we got a knife."
1742
01:26:20,055 --> 01:26:21,532
And she said, "A knife?
I told you I didn't want it
1743
01:26:21,556 --> 01:26:23,350
done with a knife,
it's gonna be a mess
1744
01:26:23,391 --> 01:26:25,018
and it's going to ruin
all my furniture"
1745
01:26:25,060 --> 01:26:26,394
And she said, "That's it,
1746
01:26:26,436 --> 01:26:28,772
that's it, no more,"
or something.
1747
01:26:28,813 --> 01:26:30,624
And Billy said something,
and she cranked the radio up.
1748
01:26:30,648 --> 01:26:32,335
And I heard her yelling back
and forth to him.
1749
01:26:32,359 --> 01:26:34,527
He was begging her...
I could hear them,
1750
01:26:34,569 --> 01:26:36,047
but I couldn't understand
what they're saying.
1751
01:26:36,071 --> 01:26:38,448
And I could see them
going back and forth,
1752
01:26:38,490 --> 01:26:40,700
but she had the radio so loud,
it's all I heard was...
1753
01:26:40,742 --> 01:26:42,553
I don't know what it was,
Van Halen or something,
1754
01:26:42,577 --> 01:26:45,372
that she had blasted
in the stereo.
1755
01:26:45,413 --> 01:26:47,457
And then she dropped me off,
1756
01:26:47,499 --> 01:26:49,209
and then drove down, like,
1757
01:26:49,250 --> 01:26:50,603
she took Billy home,
dropped him off,
1758
01:26:50,627 --> 01:26:53,755
but I know she
was pretty pissed off.
1759
01:26:55,256 --> 01:26:59,511
- Um, I'm not sure why
he would say that.
1760
01:26:59,552 --> 01:27:01,221
I'm a little confused
1761
01:27:01,262 --> 01:27:05,350
because it contradicts
his own previous statement.
1762
01:27:06,851 --> 01:27:08,954
(Surette) You thought that Bill
was gonna to kill the guy
1763
01:27:08,978 --> 01:27:10,480
because he wanted to...
1764
01:27:10,522 --> 01:27:12,065
(Raymond) He likes her.
1765
01:27:12,107 --> 01:27:13,751
- But Pamela didn't ask him
to kill her husband?
1766
01:27:13,775 --> 01:27:16,194
- I don't know,
I didn't talk to her.
1767
01:27:16,236 --> 01:27:18,071
- I don't know wha...
1768
01:27:18,113 --> 01:27:23,868
I believe that was actually
a scene in one of the movies.
1769
01:27:23,910 --> 01:27:26,788
(William Hirst) It is extremely
possible that Raymond Fowler
1770
01:27:26,830 --> 01:27:31,668
could come to believe that
what he saw in the movie
1771
01:27:31,710 --> 01:27:33,253
was what actually happened.
1772
01:27:33,294 --> 01:27:37,424
He can even believe that,
"Yes, I remember testifying
1773
01:27:37,465 --> 01:27:40,760
"that I don't remember her
saying that.
1774
01:27:40,802 --> 01:27:46,057
"But I now realize that I have
come to remember this.
1775
01:27:46,099 --> 01:27:49,185
"And like some... all memories,
sometimes you forget them
1776
01:27:49,227 --> 01:27:50,645
"and then they come later on,
1777
01:27:50,687 --> 01:27:52,731
and this is what has
happened to me."
1778
01:27:52,772 --> 01:27:55,316
And not realize
that it was the media
1779
01:27:55,358 --> 01:27:56,609
that implanted this memory.
1780
01:27:56,651 --> 01:27:58,862
- No, because I know
what happened.
1781
01:27:58,903 --> 01:28:02,115
And it will always be in
my head what happened.
1782
01:28:02,157 --> 01:28:05,660
But I do know that I remember
the movie like it was yesterday.
1783
01:28:05,702 --> 01:28:07,495
I can tell you
every part of the movie.
1784
01:28:07,537 --> 01:28:09,456
- What the hell happened
out there?
1785
01:28:09,497 --> 01:28:12,375
- I told you, Pam,
we just got lost, is all.
1786
01:28:12,417 --> 01:28:13,877
- You expect me to believe that?
1787
01:28:13,918 --> 01:28:17,213
(William) Eyewitness testimony
is extremely unreliable,
1788
01:28:17,255 --> 01:28:21,051
and people can be extremely
certain and be wrong.
1789
01:28:21,092 --> 01:28:24,596
Not only do memories decay,
1790
01:28:24,637 --> 01:28:28,808
but they get transformed
and you can actually
1791
01:28:28,850 --> 01:28:30,685
remember things
very, very differently
1792
01:28:30,727 --> 01:28:32,812
than they actually occurred.
1793
01:28:32,854 --> 01:28:34,481
- For me, the Pamela Smart movie
1794
01:28:34,522 --> 01:28:36,483
blurs with
the Nicole Kidman movie.
1795
01:28:36,524 --> 01:28:38,610
So now in my memory,
I'm not sure what I remember
1796
01:28:38,651 --> 01:28:41,154
from the actual case
and what I remember from
1797
01:28:41,196 --> 01:28:43,281
the Van Sant movie.
1798
01:28:43,323 --> 01:28:45,992
- I'm not worried about being
true to the facts.
1799
01:28:46,034 --> 01:28:49,037
I want to tell a great story,
and I get so into the story
1800
01:28:49,079 --> 01:28:52,665
that I really do forget
what actually happened,
1801
01:28:52,707 --> 01:28:55,126
and what just happened
in my own version.
1802
01:28:55,168 --> 01:28:59,881
- Let me just check one fact...
- (Director) Sure, go ahead.
1803
01:28:59,923 --> 01:29:02,801
- "Teach Me to Kill,"
the Steve Sawicki book.
1804
01:29:02,842 --> 01:29:05,178
He was formerly
"People" magazine.
1805
01:29:05,220 --> 01:29:08,348
Whenever I have to prepare
for an interview,
1806
01:29:08,390 --> 01:29:11,101
I like to call that my Bible,
I'll go back and just...
1807
01:29:11,142 --> 01:29:13,019
it refreshes my memory about
1808
01:29:13,061 --> 01:29:14,854
things that happened
during the case.
1809
01:29:14,896 --> 01:29:17,899
Sometimes the memory
fades with time, so...
1810
01:29:17,941 --> 01:29:19,741
- They had all gone through
the looking glass.
1811
01:29:19,776 --> 01:29:22,320
The judge, and the jury,
and the defense,
1812
01:29:22,362 --> 01:29:24,531
and the prosecutor,
and the kids,
1813
01:29:24,572 --> 01:29:26,366
and Pam and Cecelia,
1814
01:29:26,408 --> 01:29:29,703
they're all... they'd all
become the movie.
1815
01:29:29,744 --> 01:29:32,539
- I'm not sure if I put this in,
but the judge said
1816
01:29:32,580 --> 01:29:34,082
in the trial that he hoped
1817
01:29:34,124 --> 01:29:36,793
Clint Eastwood would
play him in the movie.
1818
01:29:36,835 --> 01:29:39,462
- It was reported reliably
1819
01:29:39,504 --> 01:29:41,631
and it's never been denied
by Judge Grey.
1820
01:29:41,673 --> 01:29:46,219
- MSNBC, Discovery...
1821
01:29:46,261 --> 01:29:49,681
By my count, this would be
the seventh show that
1822
01:29:49,723 --> 01:29:51,363
I've been personally involved
in regarding
1823
01:29:51,391 --> 01:29:53,685
the Pamela-Gregg Smart homicide.
1824
01:29:53,727 --> 01:29:56,438
Good news is we've solved
the murder of your husband.
1825
01:29:56,479 --> 01:29:58,064
The bad news is
you're under arrest,
1826
01:29:58,106 --> 01:30:01,151
so stand up and put your hands
behind your back.
1827
01:30:01,192 --> 01:30:04,612
I think I'm even quoted
in the IMDb board now
1828
01:30:04,654 --> 01:30:06,406
because that's my quote.
1829
01:30:06,448 --> 01:30:09,325
(Ted) It's really rare to find
someone who doesn't want to be
1830
01:30:09,367 --> 01:30:13,329
on a TV show to act the way
that you want them to act
1831
01:30:13,371 --> 01:30:16,875
or to act the way that they
think you want them to act.
1832
01:30:18,209 --> 01:30:21,129
- As soon as I walked
in the room today, I...
1833
01:30:26,384 --> 01:30:29,262
I felt a tremendous
amount of shame.
1834
01:30:29,304 --> 01:30:32,307
- Just hours ago, three boys,
all of them students...
1835
01:30:32,349 --> 01:30:36,102
I mean, you talk about surreal.
The screenwriter tells me,
1836
01:30:36,144 --> 01:30:39,814
we're casting actors
to play you.
1837
01:30:39,856 --> 01:30:43,568
And I thought, an actor
is going to play me?
1838
01:30:44,736 --> 01:30:46,380
Everything I'm saying
right here is an ad lib.
1839
01:30:46,404 --> 01:30:49,366
The director told me just
to talk to Helen Hunt.
1840
01:30:49,407 --> 01:30:50,950
You look absolutely beautiful...
1841
01:30:50,992 --> 01:30:54,204
(J. Albert) Everyone concerned
with Pamela Smart's trial
1842
01:30:54,245 --> 01:30:57,457
was caught up in a black hole,
1843
01:30:57,499 --> 01:31:00,418
a black hole of media attention.
1844
01:31:00,460 --> 01:31:03,922
♪♪
1845
01:31:06,466 --> 01:31:11,137
(Joyce C.) This is in hindsight
of 20 years of exploiting it.
1846
01:31:11,179 --> 01:31:13,515
As you are doing.
1847
01:31:15,767 --> 01:31:20,313
We exploited her.
1848
01:31:20,355 --> 01:31:23,650
(Stan) And that's what we do.
But you know what's interesting?
1849
01:31:23,692 --> 01:31:25,735
My job as a television
and movie producer,
1850
01:31:25,777 --> 01:31:27,987
creating a television movie
for an audience
1851
01:31:28,029 --> 01:31:30,240
that has to understand it
in very simple terms
1852
01:31:30,281 --> 01:31:32,826
is probably very similar
to what a defense attorney
1853
01:31:32,867 --> 01:31:35,120
or prosecuting attorney
has to do for a jury.
1854
01:31:35,161 --> 01:31:37,122
They have to simplify it
for them:
1855
01:31:37,163 --> 01:31:40,208
this is the bad guy,
this is a good guy.
1856
01:31:42,877 --> 01:31:44,230
(Richard) It's all
about manipulation
1857
01:31:44,254 --> 01:31:49,509
because victory is about
manipulating emotion,
1858
01:31:49,551 --> 01:31:51,636
thought, identity,
1859
01:31:51,678 --> 01:31:54,014
a sense of truth and justice.
1860
01:31:54,055 --> 01:31:57,434
And all of that is the product
1861
01:31:57,475 --> 01:32:01,104
of wrapping someone
in a narrative.
1862
01:32:01,146 --> 01:32:03,940
(Ted) I think that as a society,
1863
01:32:03,982 --> 01:32:07,652
we judge people based
on their stories.
1864
01:32:07,694 --> 01:32:12,657
And when someone
has a compelling story
1865
01:32:12,699 --> 01:32:14,117
and they're great at telling it,
1866
01:32:14,159 --> 01:32:15,994
they get the benefit
of the doubt.
1867
01:32:16,036 --> 01:32:20,874
And when someone has a story
that doesn't quite fit together,
1868
01:32:20,915 --> 01:32:24,169
as most stories
don't in reality,
1869
01:32:24,210 --> 01:32:26,921
and they're not good at
telling that story,
1870
01:32:26,963 --> 01:32:29,674
they get the short end
of the stick.
1871
01:32:29,716 --> 01:32:31,885
(Richard)
So at its highest level,
1872
01:32:31,926 --> 01:32:33,845
you have competing Shakespeares
1873
01:32:33,887 --> 01:32:38,350
portraying characters in stories
1874
01:32:38,391 --> 01:32:41,728
that may or may not be true.
1875
01:32:41,770 --> 01:32:44,898
And of course,
justice might miscarry
1876
01:32:44,939 --> 01:32:49,069
if we wanted this defendant
to be something
1877
01:32:49,110 --> 01:32:51,488
maybe different
from what she is.
1878
01:32:51,529 --> 01:32:54,657
♪♪
1879
01:32:54,699 --> 01:32:59,788
Which one of these
Pamela Smarts is real?
1880
01:33:05,877 --> 01:33:09,089
- She's right,
t's not her movie.
1881
01:33:09,130 --> 01:33:11,007
It's our movie.
1882
01:33:14,594 --> 01:33:17,972
(Pamela) I've been fighting
for over two decades,
1883
01:33:18,014 --> 01:33:22,018
and I'm always fighting
to get out of here.
1884
01:33:22,060 --> 01:33:24,604
It gets tiring.
It gets exhausting.
1885
01:33:24,646 --> 01:33:31,194
But I realized that if I let go
of the fight, then they won.
1886
01:33:31,236 --> 01:33:35,281
And if I let go of hope,
what do I have?
1887
01:33:35,323 --> 01:33:38,493
Hopes and dreams are the air
1888
01:33:38,535 --> 01:33:40,787
that sustains me every day.
1889
01:33:44,165 --> 01:33:46,459
Last week, I lost my ID.
1890
01:33:46,501 --> 01:33:48,461
So I went to get a new ID.
1891
01:33:48,503 --> 01:33:50,046
And when I was taking
the picture,
1892
01:33:50,088 --> 01:33:52,465
all of a sudden,
I just started smiling.
1893
01:33:52,507 --> 01:33:54,509
So the officer, he said,
"Why are you smiling?"
1894
01:33:54,551 --> 01:33:57,470
Who smiles for their
prison picture, right?
1895
01:33:57,512 --> 01:33:59,806
And I said, well,
I'm smiling because
1896
01:33:59,848 --> 01:34:01,975
it's the last one
I'm ever going to take.
1897
01:34:02,017 --> 01:34:03,643
And he said, "Why?"
1898
01:34:03,685 --> 01:34:06,187
And I said, 'cause I'm leaving.
I'm getting out of here.
1899
01:34:09,024 --> 01:34:12,152
What a great movie it'll be
if I get out, right?
1900
01:34:12,193 --> 01:34:13,945
You would just
have the greatest footage
1901
01:34:13,987 --> 01:34:16,489
in America if you get like,
1902
01:34:16,531 --> 01:34:18,324
me coming out of the door,
1903
01:34:18,366 --> 01:34:20,910
you know, leaving the prison.
1904
01:34:20,952 --> 01:34:23,371
And, oh, God.
Yeah, so that's it.
1905
01:34:25,290 --> 01:34:27,250
(phone hangs up)
1906
01:34:27,292 --> 01:34:32,297
♪♪
1907
01:35:30,855 --> 01:35:36,069
♪♪
142070
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