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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:10,051 --> 00:00:11,553 (spotlight clicks on) 4 00:00:13,138 --> 00:00:15,682 (dial tone) 5 00:00:19,060 --> 00:00:21,021 (dial tone) 6 00:00:21,062 --> 00:00:23,064 (gears turning) 7 00:00:26,192 --> 00:00:27,485 (dial tone) 8 00:00:27,527 --> 00:00:31,072 - You have a VAC prepaid call from... 9 00:00:31,114 --> 00:00:32,532 - Pamela Smart. 10 00:00:32,574 --> 00:00:35,160 - an inmate at Bedford Hills, 11 00:00:35,201 --> 00:00:37,746 New York State Correctional Facility. 12 00:00:37,787 --> 00:00:40,081 If you wish to accept and pay for this call, 13 00:00:40,123 --> 00:00:41,416 dial three now. 14 00:00:41,458 --> 00:00:43,043 - (beep) - To hear the... 15 00:00:43,084 --> 00:00:44,919 - (woman) Hello? - (Pamela) Now, I don't know 16 00:00:44,961 --> 00:00:47,630 if you know or not, but I'm terrified of birds. 17 00:00:47,672 --> 00:00:50,342 I hate birds. (wings fluttering) 18 00:00:50,383 --> 00:00:52,385 Okay, the night that Gregg got killed, 19 00:00:52,427 --> 00:00:56,890 in the middle of the night, I woke up screaming 20 00:00:56,931 --> 00:00:58,892 at the top of my lungs 21 00:00:58,933 --> 00:01:01,561 that there were birds all over the ceiling. 22 00:01:01,603 --> 00:01:05,148 So I'm in the bed, blood-curdling screams... 23 00:01:05,190 --> 00:01:07,484 I don't even remember. 24 00:01:07,525 --> 00:01:10,070 I know that if I was screaming like that, 25 00:01:10,111 --> 00:01:13,573 then I had to have been hallucinating because 26 00:01:13,615 --> 00:01:15,742 there obviously were no birds all over the ceiling. 27 00:01:15,784 --> 00:01:17,702 But then I sat up, and I was really awake 28 00:01:17,744 --> 00:01:20,914 and everything, still screaming to get them off the ceiling. 29 00:01:20,955 --> 00:01:24,918 That was night one. 30 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:26,628 (beep) 31 00:01:44,813 --> 00:01:48,316 ♪♪ 32 00:01:48,358 --> 00:01:50,026 (reporter) May 1, 1990. 33 00:01:50,068 --> 00:01:53,113 24 year old Greggory Smart has been shot in the head. 34 00:01:53,154 --> 00:01:56,282 ♪♪ 35 00:01:56,324 --> 00:01:58,118 His wife, Pamela Smart, is accused of 36 00:01:58,159 --> 00:01:59,828 plotting her husband's death. 37 00:01:59,869 --> 00:02:02,747 ♪♪ 38 00:02:02,789 --> 00:02:04,249 She plotted the murder of her husband 39 00:02:04,290 --> 00:02:06,626 along with three teenage boys. 40 00:02:06,668 --> 00:02:08,670 ♪♪ 41 00:02:08,712 --> 00:02:10,630 All along, she has said she would welcome 42 00:02:10,672 --> 00:02:13,383 the start of her trial so she could prove her innocence. 43 00:02:13,425 --> 00:02:16,177 Well, Pamela Smart is about to get her wish. 44 00:02:16,219 --> 00:02:18,763 ♪♪ 45 00:02:18,805 --> 00:02:21,016 This is gonna be the first trial ever 46 00:02:21,057 --> 00:02:23,852 covered live on television. 47 00:02:23,893 --> 00:02:25,812 ♪♪ 48 00:02:25,854 --> 00:02:28,523 (man) Ten years prior to "Survivor," 49 00:02:28,565 --> 00:02:31,568 a few years prior to "The Real World." 50 00:02:31,609 --> 00:02:35,280 So no one had ever seen a television show where 51 00:02:35,321 --> 00:02:38,908 you watched real life play out in real time. 52 00:02:38,950 --> 00:02:42,912 ♪♪ 53 00:02:42,954 --> 00:02:44,873 - There's no soap opera to this. 54 00:02:44,914 --> 00:02:45,957 It's real stuff. 55 00:02:45,999 --> 00:02:47,417 (man) Nothing happens, 56 00:02:47,459 --> 00:02:49,669 and it's totally fascinating. 57 00:02:49,711 --> 00:02:52,839 ♪♪ 58 00:02:52,881 --> 00:02:54,507 (man 2) Litigation as entertainment was 59 00:02:54,549 --> 00:02:57,844 just exploding, and it exploded through this trial. 60 00:02:57,886 --> 00:02:59,679 ♪♪ 61 00:02:59,721 --> 00:03:01,473 (reporter) From Boston, from New Hampshire, 62 00:03:01,514 --> 00:03:04,142 from all over New England, and then it's national news, 63 00:03:04,184 --> 00:03:06,394 in fact, around the world is trying to cover the story. 64 00:03:06,436 --> 00:03:08,271 It is gigantic. 65 00:03:08,313 --> 00:03:09,856 (man 3) ...that all of New Hampshire, 66 00:03:09,898 --> 00:03:11,107 if not the nation, 67 00:03:11,149 --> 00:03:14,736 is inflamed at the appearance of Pamela Smart. 68 00:03:14,778 --> 00:03:16,529 (director) So light back on. 69 00:03:16,571 --> 00:03:17,947 (lights clicking) 70 00:03:17,989 --> 00:03:22,994 ♪♪ 71 00:03:32,253 --> 00:03:34,714 (animals chirping) 72 00:03:44,182 --> 00:03:46,327 (Paul Maggiotto) All murders in New Hampshire are big cases, 73 00:03:46,351 --> 00:03:49,521 but this one certainly had some interesting features to it. 74 00:03:49,562 --> 00:03:51,272 (typewriter clicking) 75 00:03:54,651 --> 00:03:57,320 (Tami Plyler) Uh, well, I was covering Derry in 1990, 76 00:03:57,362 --> 00:03:59,406 and I got a call early in the morning 77 00:03:59,447 --> 00:04:00,740 that there had been a murder. 78 00:04:00,782 --> 00:04:03,785 I believe it was in May, it was a very sunny day. 79 00:04:03,827 --> 00:04:06,746 I had to go to the condo complex where the Smarts lived 80 00:04:06,788 --> 00:04:08,832 and where the crime had been committed. 81 00:04:08,873 --> 00:04:11,584 The word was it was probably a botched robbery or something. 82 00:04:11,626 --> 00:04:14,295 And there was really no reason at the time to think 83 00:04:14,337 --> 00:04:16,297 it was it was anything else. 84 00:04:16,339 --> 00:04:17,924 And a few days after the crime, 85 00:04:17,966 --> 00:04:20,677 I called Pam at her mother's house, 86 00:04:20,719 --> 00:04:23,096 and she invited me over to interview her. 87 00:04:23,138 --> 00:04:25,974 I remember she was sitting there on the couch, 88 00:04:26,016 --> 00:04:28,184 and the windows had big lights and behind her, 89 00:04:28,226 --> 00:04:30,895 she was surrounded by the flowers. 90 00:04:30,937 --> 00:04:33,273 - Some other things that made this case very interesting 91 00:04:33,314 --> 00:04:35,025 to the press that early on, 92 00:04:35,066 --> 00:04:39,446 Pam Smart did not shy away from press attention, 93 00:04:39,487 --> 00:04:41,114 because there was some initial thoughts 94 00:04:41,156 --> 00:04:43,033 that maybe this was a drug deal that went bad. 95 00:04:43,074 --> 00:04:47,245 And she didn't hesitate to talk about how her husband 96 00:04:47,287 --> 00:04:51,291 wasn't into drugs and how she was defending his honor. 97 00:04:51,332 --> 00:04:54,586 And there was a feeling that she actually enjoyed the attention 98 00:04:54,627 --> 00:04:58,256 she was getting being the widow on TV. 99 00:04:58,298 --> 00:05:00,508 (TV reporter) It is now seven days since the murder. 100 00:05:00,550 --> 00:05:02,052 This would've been their 101 00:05:02,093 --> 00:05:03,773 one year wedding anniversary, she tells me. 102 00:05:03,803 --> 00:05:05,555 Throughout the lengthy interview, 103 00:05:05,597 --> 00:05:07,265 Pamela is composed. 104 00:05:07,307 --> 00:05:08,725 - Sometimes I ask myself, 105 00:05:08,767 --> 00:05:12,312 I can't figure out where the strength is coming from. 106 00:05:12,354 --> 00:05:14,981 (reporter) As we sit talking, Pamela's dog, Halen, 107 00:05:15,023 --> 00:05:18,026 named after the rock group Van Halen, smuggles up to her. 108 00:05:18,068 --> 00:05:20,403 "Luckily, nothing happened to him," she says. 109 00:05:20,445 --> 00:05:23,406 "He was locked in the basement when I found Gregg murdered." 110 00:05:23,448 --> 00:05:27,994 (Bill Spencer) She's dressed beautifully, full-on makeup, 111 00:05:28,036 --> 00:05:30,955 she looks hot, like she was going to a party. 112 00:05:30,997 --> 00:05:32,832 She told me that she had wanted to be 113 00:05:32,874 --> 00:05:34,542 a television news reporter. 114 00:05:34,584 --> 00:05:36,544 She wanted to do what I did. 115 00:05:36,586 --> 00:05:39,506 And she says, "You know, it's been just about one year 116 00:05:39,547 --> 00:05:41,800 "exactly since Gregg and I were married. 117 00:05:41,841 --> 00:05:44,886 "I've got the top layer of our wedding cake. 118 00:05:44,928 --> 00:05:46,489 "Wouldn't it be good if you got a shot of me, 119 00:05:46,513 --> 00:05:48,014 "like, looking at it? 120 00:05:48,056 --> 00:05:51,101 Wouldn't that be a poignant moment in your story?" 121 00:05:51,142 --> 00:05:52,686 I'm like, what? 122 00:05:52,727 --> 00:05:54,562 She's attempting to produce 123 00:05:54,604 --> 00:05:56,439 the story that I'm working on. 124 00:05:56,481 --> 00:05:57,899 - I thought she was guilty. 125 00:05:57,941 --> 00:05:59,859 When I watched on TV, I thought she was guilty. 126 00:05:59,901 --> 00:06:02,696 I thought she was pretty conceited. 127 00:06:02,737 --> 00:06:05,407 I remember she was sitting on the couch with her dog, 128 00:06:05,448 --> 00:06:07,200 and I felt, boy, she's cold. 129 00:06:07,242 --> 00:06:09,053 - People would start saying, well, don't you think it's 130 00:06:09,077 --> 00:06:12,122 kind of suspicious, or people starting to hear things? 131 00:06:12,163 --> 00:06:16,001 And I was like, no, I-I... no, I didn't get that. 132 00:06:16,042 --> 00:06:18,128 And then it just starts snowballing from there. 133 00:06:28,471 --> 00:06:31,391 ♪♪ 134 00:06:31,433 --> 00:06:34,102 - The night of the murder, I had to work late because 135 00:06:34,144 --> 00:06:36,438 I was going to a school board meeting, 136 00:06:36,479 --> 00:06:38,523 maybe like 9:00 or 10:00. 137 00:06:38,565 --> 00:06:41,067 When I was going up the condo steps, 138 00:06:41,109 --> 00:06:44,904 I noticed that the door looked like it was open a little bit. 139 00:06:44,946 --> 00:06:49,075 And then I opened the door, and when I turned on the light, 140 00:06:49,117 --> 00:06:50,744 I saw Gregg. 141 00:06:55,415 --> 00:06:58,585 And the house was ransacked. 142 00:06:58,626 --> 00:07:01,629 I thought that it was an interrupted burglary. 143 00:07:01,671 --> 00:07:03,357 I mean, everyone had all these theories that 144 00:07:03,381 --> 00:07:04,674 were going around at the time, 145 00:07:04,716 --> 00:07:06,551 and that was just the general consensus. 146 00:07:08,219 --> 00:07:10,055 But apparently I was a suspect. 147 00:07:10,096 --> 00:07:13,183 So I was in the dark, and I was finding out 148 00:07:13,224 --> 00:07:16,436 what was going on in my life every day by watching the news. 149 00:07:16,478 --> 00:07:17,771 (static) 150 00:07:17,812 --> 00:07:19,981 It was a month after my husband was killed, 151 00:07:20,023 --> 00:07:21,983 I found out that they were arrested. 152 00:07:22,025 --> 00:07:23,502 - Have you got anything to say this morning? 153 00:07:23,526 --> 00:07:24,712 Are you involved in this murder? 154 00:07:24,736 --> 00:07:26,404 - (boy) No, sir. - (Bill) June 12th, 155 00:07:26,446 --> 00:07:27,906 three Seabrook teenagers from 156 00:07:27,947 --> 00:07:30,450 a ramshackle working class neighborhood 157 00:07:30,492 --> 00:07:32,827 are hustled into a juvenile courtroom. 158 00:07:32,869 --> 00:07:35,580 Prosecutors promise the state will seek to try 159 00:07:35,622 --> 00:07:37,457 each of the boys as adults. 160 00:07:37,499 --> 00:07:39,626 Who pulled the trigger in this case? 161 00:07:39,668 --> 00:07:41,670 Can you tell us? 162 00:07:44,297 --> 00:07:49,678 (Bill) Three teenage boys who killed Gregg Smart live 163 00:07:49,719 --> 00:07:53,932 on the other side of town in a place called Seabrook. 164 00:07:55,183 --> 00:07:59,604 And it is a very, very poor neighborhood. 165 00:08:02,649 --> 00:08:04,984 And these boys are rough. 166 00:08:05,026 --> 00:08:07,445 Pete Randall, very tough looking. 167 00:08:07,487 --> 00:08:09,656 You can tell this kid is mean by looking at him. 168 00:08:09,698 --> 00:08:11,658 You know, he's got a hateful look in his eyes 169 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:12,784 all of the time. 170 00:08:12,826 --> 00:08:14,994 Then you've got Vance Lattime. 171 00:08:15,036 --> 00:08:17,163 He's got these thick Coke bottle glasses, 172 00:08:17,205 --> 00:08:19,749 and frizzy hair. 173 00:08:19,791 --> 00:08:22,711 And then you got Billy Flynn, this good-looking, 174 00:08:22,752 --> 00:08:25,505 big, brown puppy dog eyes. 175 00:08:25,547 --> 00:08:27,132 He's a musician. He's a rock musician, 176 00:08:27,173 --> 00:08:29,509 like Gregg was. 177 00:08:29,551 --> 00:08:32,679 The only possible connection is... 178 00:08:32,721 --> 00:08:34,139 (exhales) is that Pam Smart works 179 00:08:34,180 --> 00:08:36,057 at a high school, Winnacunnet High School. 180 00:08:37,684 --> 00:08:39,728 Every day, I'm talking to dozens 181 00:08:39,769 --> 00:08:43,648 of teenage friends of these three boys. 182 00:08:43,690 --> 00:08:47,736 Starting to find out that Pam was seen with Billy Flynn a lot. 183 00:08:47,777 --> 00:08:50,864 Billy had talked about Pam, how hot looking she was, 184 00:08:50,905 --> 00:08:53,616 how gorgeous she was, how he wanted to play 185 00:08:53,658 --> 00:08:55,076 his guitar for her. 186 00:08:59,789 --> 00:09:02,792 (Pamela) Gregg's father is calling me on the phone. 187 00:09:02,834 --> 00:09:05,003 My friends are calling me. 188 00:09:05,045 --> 00:09:08,882 My family is asking me, "Who is this person? 189 00:09:08,923 --> 00:09:11,718 Why in the world would this person murder Gregg?" 190 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,679 And we're all grieving, okay, 191 00:09:14,721 --> 00:09:16,348 over the fact that Gregg is dead. 192 00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:19,476 And I'm supposed to say, "Oh, by the way, everybody, 193 00:09:19,517 --> 00:09:22,103 I had sex with this person"? 194 00:09:22,145 --> 00:09:26,232 I so badly wanted this not to be true. 195 00:09:26,274 --> 00:09:28,502 I just wanted somebody to tell me that this was not true, 196 00:09:28,526 --> 00:09:31,404 that this did not... that it was really not him, 197 00:09:31,446 --> 00:09:34,908 because I felt horrible. 198 00:09:34,949 --> 00:09:37,243 - Pam, what's wrong? How you doing? 199 00:09:37,285 --> 00:09:40,080 (Pam) Nothing, but I can't comment, Bill. 200 00:09:40,121 --> 00:09:41,998 I really can't. - Well... 201 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,334 - I'm totally devastated by this. 202 00:09:44,376 --> 00:09:46,127 I can't comment. 203 00:09:46,169 --> 00:09:49,881 - She had the opportunity to tell us that she was having 204 00:09:49,923 --> 00:09:53,510 an affair with Bill Flynn, and she never did. 205 00:09:53,551 --> 00:09:57,305 It was troubling. 206 00:09:57,347 --> 00:09:59,200 - The big thing about this case was trying to connect 207 00:09:59,224 --> 00:10:03,561 Pam Smart to the murder, and what we had was the tapes. 208 00:10:03,603 --> 00:10:06,940 ♪♪ 209 00:10:06,981 --> 00:10:09,275 - Pamela Smart's personal student intern 210 00:10:09,317 --> 00:10:11,653 at Winnacunnet High School agreed to help 211 00:10:11,695 --> 00:10:14,531 police investigators by wearing a body wire. 212 00:10:14,572 --> 00:10:17,450 By doing so, police were able to record a conversation 213 00:10:17,492 --> 00:10:20,995 with Pam Smart in which they allege Smart admitted 214 00:10:21,037 --> 00:10:24,124 trying to help three Seabrook teenagers kill her husband. 215 00:10:26,501 --> 00:10:29,796 (indistinct chatter) 216 00:10:29,838 --> 00:10:32,674 - The tapes removed any possible doubt, 217 00:10:32,716 --> 00:10:34,843 let alone reasonable doubt. 218 00:10:37,345 --> 00:10:39,556 (Pamela) August 1, 1990. 219 00:10:39,597 --> 00:10:41,349 I woke up at about 7:00 a.m., 220 00:10:41,391 --> 00:10:43,810 and then I put on a green dress. 221 00:10:43,852 --> 00:10:46,146 Out of all the colors I could've chosen, 222 00:10:46,187 --> 00:10:47,856 it still strikes me as strange 223 00:10:47,897 --> 00:10:50,066 that on my last day of freedom, 224 00:10:50,108 --> 00:10:52,819 I chose a dress of the very same olive green 225 00:10:52,861 --> 00:10:55,363 colored prison uniform that I must wear 226 00:10:55,405 --> 00:10:57,490 for the rest of my life. 227 00:10:57,532 --> 00:11:00,035 I was in my office when the phone rang. 228 00:11:00,076 --> 00:11:03,288 I said, "Media center," and the person hung up. 229 00:11:04,664 --> 00:11:07,500 And few minutes later, two Derry police detectives 230 00:11:07,542 --> 00:11:10,170 walked into my office. 231 00:11:10,211 --> 00:11:12,839 The lead detective Pelletier said, 232 00:11:12,881 --> 00:11:15,300 "We have some good news and some bad news." 233 00:11:18,261 --> 00:11:20,764 (Pelletier) It's the shining moment for us. 234 00:11:20,805 --> 00:11:23,975 The line that came to mind on the way over was, "The good news 235 00:11:24,017 --> 00:11:26,853 "is we solved the murder of your husband, 236 00:11:26,895 --> 00:11:29,939 and the bad news is you're under arrest." 237 00:11:32,567 --> 00:11:35,445 Let me go back and just... a little more emotion. 238 00:11:37,072 --> 00:11:39,366 "I've got good news and I've got bad news. 239 00:11:39,407 --> 00:11:41,451 (dramatic music sting) 240 00:11:41,493 --> 00:11:43,703 "The good news is we've finally solved 241 00:11:43,745 --> 00:11:45,163 "the murder of your husband. 242 00:11:45,205 --> 00:11:47,874 And the bad news is you're under arrest." 243 00:11:51,586 --> 00:11:53,773 (Joyce Maynard) I picked up the newspaper, and there she was 244 00:11:53,797 --> 00:11:56,257 on the cover, I think with handcuffs on, 245 00:11:56,299 --> 00:11:59,010 this... the cheerleader with handcuffs on, 246 00:11:59,052 --> 00:12:00,720 and that's when I knew. 247 00:12:00,762 --> 00:12:03,390 I had decided I'm going to write a novel. 248 00:12:03,431 --> 00:12:07,727 It was very much the fact of having seen her on television 249 00:12:07,769 --> 00:12:10,021 before in this other role... 250 00:12:10,063 --> 00:12:13,525 the grieving widow role, very pretty, young blonde, 251 00:12:13,566 --> 00:12:15,902 former cheerleader, the kind of girl that 252 00:12:15,944 --> 00:12:17,737 I would have really been... 253 00:12:17,779 --> 00:12:20,031 hated, but secretly envied. 254 00:12:20,073 --> 00:12:23,743 And the recognition that in fact, it was rotten, 255 00:12:23,785 --> 00:12:26,121 something very ugly behind it 256 00:12:26,162 --> 00:12:29,040 that bore no relationship to the image in front. 257 00:12:30,583 --> 00:12:37,298 - As we ride one wave of imagery to the next, we need to ask, 258 00:12:37,340 --> 00:12:40,885 A, what are we looking at, really? 259 00:12:40,927 --> 00:12:43,555 And B, how are we looking? 260 00:12:43,596 --> 00:12:48,101 What happens when you introduce electronic media, 261 00:12:48,143 --> 00:12:50,979 when you put a 50-inch screen in front of people? 262 00:12:54,649 --> 00:12:57,527 ♪♪ 263 00:13:05,452 --> 00:13:10,707 - The archetype of the beautiful woman brought down 264 00:13:10,749 --> 00:13:12,751 is a very powerful one. 265 00:13:12,792 --> 00:13:15,211 (reporter) According to police, Pamela Smart convinced 266 00:13:15,253 --> 00:13:17,630 her teenage lover to murder her husband. 267 00:13:17,672 --> 00:13:20,216 (reporter 2) Pamela Smart offering to pay each teenager 268 00:13:20,258 --> 00:13:22,969 $1,000 for the murder of her husband. 269 00:13:23,011 --> 00:13:26,264 (camera shutters clicking) 270 00:13:26,306 --> 00:13:29,434 (Joyce) She was with very little affect. 271 00:13:29,476 --> 00:13:31,936 She showed almost no emotion. 272 00:13:31,978 --> 00:13:36,149 You can impose anything you want onto that face. 273 00:13:36,191 --> 00:13:38,485 (Erin Joyce) It's the classic tale of the seductress 274 00:13:38,526 --> 00:13:41,321 who seduces these innocent young boys, 275 00:13:41,363 --> 00:13:43,656 and that's just the tale for the ages. 276 00:13:43,698 --> 00:13:46,618 - Schoolteacher, you know, molested this boy 277 00:13:46,659 --> 00:13:51,331 and had an affair with him, and had her husband bumped off. 278 00:13:51,373 --> 00:13:56,378 - Sex, murder, teenage kids, a teacher. 279 00:14:00,090 --> 00:14:04,094 - A-ha, I know the black widow story. 280 00:14:04,135 --> 00:14:06,388 I know the ice princess story. 281 00:14:06,429 --> 00:14:09,224 I know what that character is like. 282 00:14:09,265 --> 00:14:12,477 Once we've internalized our understanding 283 00:14:12,519 --> 00:14:15,980 of who this character is, then we search 284 00:14:16,022 --> 00:14:20,694 for details that confirm that understanding. 285 00:14:20,735 --> 00:14:23,196 (TV reporter) Daughter of an ambitious airline pilot, 286 00:14:23,238 --> 00:14:24,948 she was determined to succeed. 287 00:14:24,989 --> 00:14:26,991 (woman) She's very domineering. 288 00:14:27,033 --> 00:14:29,202 She seemed to want to be the focal point. 289 00:14:29,244 --> 00:14:30,995 She wanted attention. 290 00:14:31,037 --> 00:14:32,706 (Erin) She was ready for her close-up 291 00:14:32,747 --> 00:14:34,308 and ready for the cameras. - (Paul) I don't think 292 00:14:34,332 --> 00:14:35,935 she really thought it was wrong to kill him, 293 00:14:35,959 --> 00:14:38,545 I don't think she has any desire to ever accept responsibility. 294 00:14:38,586 --> 00:14:39,879 I think she's convinced herself 295 00:14:39,921 --> 00:14:41,256 she had nothing to do with it. 296 00:14:41,297 --> 00:14:42,549 (Erin) Especially to Billy, 297 00:14:42,590 --> 00:14:44,884 Pam must have looked like a princess. 298 00:14:44,926 --> 00:14:49,264 I mean, she was this attractive, accomplished to their mind... 299 00:14:49,305 --> 00:14:51,307 she must have had a huge hold on this boy. 300 00:14:51,349 --> 00:14:54,769 - Well, that was a long perp walk. 301 00:14:54,811 --> 00:14:58,773 Can't help but wonder if they had her come in the side way 302 00:14:58,815 --> 00:15:00,358 to give the press... 303 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:05,196 to feed the frenzy a little bit, to feed the beast. 304 00:15:05,238 --> 00:15:07,240 Here we are outside the courthouse. 305 00:15:07,282 --> 00:15:09,576 And, yes, Bill Spencer. 306 00:15:09,617 --> 00:15:11,953 - Already this case has attracted a barrage 307 00:15:11,995 --> 00:15:14,414 of media attention from all over the world. 308 00:15:14,456 --> 00:15:16,058 (Pelletier) Bill Spencer was pretty dogged 309 00:15:16,082 --> 00:15:17,625 through this whole thing. 310 00:15:17,667 --> 00:15:20,337 He got quite a bit of publicity for himself as well, 311 00:15:20,378 --> 00:15:23,340 and he ended up on "The Phil Donahue Show." 312 00:15:23,381 --> 00:15:26,343 - The Geraldo Show. - Sally Jessy Raphael. 313 00:15:26,384 --> 00:15:28,678 - "Hard Copy", "Inside Edition", 314 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,764 everybody wants to talk to me 315 00:15:30,805 --> 00:15:33,808 because I've been leading the coverage in this case. 316 00:15:33,850 --> 00:15:35,810 - When marriage turns to murder. 317 00:15:35,852 --> 00:15:37,270 Fatal marriages are the focus 318 00:15:37,312 --> 00:15:38,730 of this edition of "Geraldo". 319 00:15:38,772 --> 00:15:41,441 - Now, the police have a recording that Cecelia, 320 00:15:41,483 --> 00:15:43,651 the 16-year-old confidante, made. 321 00:15:43,693 --> 00:15:46,279 She wore a wireless mic, a hidden microphone. 322 00:15:46,321 --> 00:15:48,865 Pamela told this 16-year-old girl 323 00:15:48,907 --> 00:15:50,950 many incriminating things. 324 00:15:50,992 --> 00:15:54,329 - Did you hear the tape, Mr. Spencer? 325 00:15:54,371 --> 00:15:55,931 - The Attorney General... - Did you hear it? 326 00:15:55,955 --> 00:15:57,808 - No, of course I didn't... - And you've made a judgment on 327 00:15:57,832 --> 00:16:00,543 my daughter based on not hearing that tape. 328 00:16:00,585 --> 00:16:02,772 (Pelletier) Getting into arguments with Pamela's family, 329 00:16:02,796 --> 00:16:05,024 which I thought might have been a little bit out of place 330 00:16:05,048 --> 00:16:07,318 for a reporter that's supposed to remain neutral and detached. 331 00:16:07,342 --> 00:16:10,929 - Any chance that the media is on a runaway stampede 332 00:16:10,970 --> 00:16:13,115 with this case and this woman's not getting a fair hearing? 333 00:16:13,139 --> 00:16:15,141 - (exhales) No, I don't think so. 334 00:16:15,183 --> 00:16:17,435 I think the real evidence is astronomical. 335 00:16:17,477 --> 00:16:19,646 - It's months and months of reports of Pam doing this, 336 00:16:19,688 --> 00:16:22,399 Pam doing that, and there hadn't even been a trial yet. 337 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,484 - The way it usually goes is, you know, 338 00:16:24,526 --> 00:16:28,822 you cover a murder case, and you try to dig and dig 339 00:16:28,863 --> 00:16:31,741 and find out as much as you can, but nobody really ever knows 340 00:16:31,783 --> 00:16:34,536 the whole story until a case goes to trial 341 00:16:34,577 --> 00:16:37,622 and people under oath start telling what happens. 342 00:16:37,664 --> 00:16:41,459 In this case, I've managed to tell everybody everything about 343 00:16:41,501 --> 00:16:43,628 this case before it even goes to trial. 344 00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:45,547 I mean, the whole thing is out there. 345 00:16:45,588 --> 00:16:49,926 (announcer) WMURTV presents The Greggory Smart Murder Case. 346 00:16:49,968 --> 00:16:54,848 (man) WMUR in New Hampshire produced a movie called 347 00:16:54,889 --> 00:16:56,349 "The Anatomy of a Murder". 348 00:16:56,391 --> 00:17:01,521 And that movie detailed what William Spencer thought 349 00:17:01,563 --> 00:17:03,857 resulted in the murder of Greggory Smart. 350 00:17:03,898 --> 00:17:06,192 - and captured the attention of the entire nation... 351 00:17:06,234 --> 00:17:08,570 (Bill) We publicize the heck out of it. 352 00:17:08,611 --> 00:17:11,740 The full page ads in the New Hampshire newspapers. 353 00:17:11,781 --> 00:17:14,909 Did she tell you her husband was gonna get killed that night? 354 00:17:14,951 --> 00:17:16,202 - Yeah. 355 00:17:16,244 --> 00:17:17,871 (Bill) Ratings are huge. 356 00:17:17,912 --> 00:17:21,916 - All I want is the people who did this sent to jail forever. 357 00:17:21,958 --> 00:17:26,796 - This was broadcast two days before the jurors were selected. 358 00:17:26,838 --> 00:17:29,424 (seagulls cawing) 359 00:17:31,885 --> 00:17:34,471 (Bill) And now the court is looking for twelve people 360 00:17:34,512 --> 00:17:36,598 who can put all of that aside 361 00:17:36,639 --> 00:17:38,141 and look at this case open mindedly. 362 00:17:38,183 --> 00:17:39,743 (reporter) A record 300 potential jurors 363 00:17:39,768 --> 00:17:41,394 have been summoned... - Half of 364 00:17:41,436 --> 00:17:44,439 the 147 prospective jurors summoned today said they 365 00:17:44,481 --> 00:17:46,566 had heard about the case, so they were excused... 366 00:17:46,608 --> 00:17:48,693 (Bill) In the afternoon, 150 more jurors 367 00:17:48,735 --> 00:17:50,737 will be brought in... - Search for objective jurors 368 00:17:50,779 --> 00:17:53,406 continues at the Rockingham County Superior Courthouse. 369 00:17:53,448 --> 00:17:54,925 (Alec Beckett) I was in China, and I called home 370 00:17:54,949 --> 00:17:56,618 just to let them know I was gonna be home 371 00:17:56,659 --> 00:17:59,454 in the next few weeks. And my mom all excitedly said, 372 00:17:59,496 --> 00:18:01,331 "You've been called to the Pam Smart jury." 373 00:18:01,373 --> 00:18:03,333 And I said, what's that? 374 00:18:03,375 --> 00:18:05,460 Then she said, "Don't read any papers. 375 00:18:05,502 --> 00:18:09,255 Don't do anything," and so obviously remained willfully 376 00:18:09,297 --> 00:18:10,840 ignorant of what was going on. 377 00:18:10,882 --> 00:18:13,009 (reporter) The trial had higher ratings 378 00:18:13,051 --> 00:18:14,678 than the afternoon soap operas. 379 00:18:14,719 --> 00:18:16,072 - So you came up here and got a hotel room just 380 00:18:16,096 --> 00:18:17,222 to watch the trial? - Right. 381 00:18:17,263 --> 00:18:18,598 - How come? 382 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,767 - Well, I'm kind of fascinated by these trials. 383 00:18:20,809 --> 00:18:23,937 (Alec) The story is just so intoxicating. 384 00:18:23,978 --> 00:18:26,815 You can see how important it is to try to find jurors 385 00:18:26,856 --> 00:18:28,566 who haven't had that seed planted in it, 386 00:18:28,608 --> 00:18:30,193 because once that seed is in your head, 387 00:18:30,235 --> 00:18:32,404 you can see how irresistible that is 388 00:18:32,445 --> 00:18:34,614 not to fill in that narrative in your own head. 389 00:18:34,656 --> 00:18:38,618 - I don't feel that I could sit there saying, 390 00:18:38,660 --> 00:18:40,054 yes, she did it, or no, she didn't do it 391 00:18:40,078 --> 00:18:41,955 without... because I've read so much about it. 392 00:18:41,996 --> 00:18:43,289 - I read too much about it, 393 00:18:43,331 --> 00:18:44,624 and I read the whole article 394 00:18:44,666 --> 00:18:46,143 and the whole "National Telegraph" on it. 395 00:18:46,167 --> 00:18:47,460 I said, no. 396 00:18:47,502 --> 00:18:50,130 (Linda) How do you dismiss what you've read 397 00:18:50,171 --> 00:18:53,466 and what you've been poisoned with for the past six months? 398 00:18:53,508 --> 00:18:56,469 I don't know, maybe people are capable of doing that. 399 00:18:56,511 --> 00:18:58,221 I hope to God that they are. 400 00:18:58,263 --> 00:19:00,306 - Nonsense. Nonsense. 401 00:19:00,348 --> 00:19:02,600 You can't unring the bell. 402 00:19:02,642 --> 00:19:07,063 The Supreme Court has said over and over again, a juror who 403 00:19:07,105 --> 00:19:13,445 denies the fact that he was affected by pretrial prejudicial 404 00:19:13,486 --> 00:19:15,864 publicity is not to be believed. 405 00:19:15,905 --> 00:19:19,617 - We were hoping to place the trial in a county 406 00:19:19,659 --> 00:19:21,453 much like Grafton County. 407 00:19:21,494 --> 00:19:23,830 It was not exposed to Boston media. 408 00:19:23,872 --> 00:19:25,206 (cameras clicking) 409 00:19:25,248 --> 00:19:28,168 And Judge Grey denied our attempt. 410 00:19:28,209 --> 00:19:29,961 Certainly Judge Grey didn't wanna 411 00:19:30,003 --> 00:19:32,213 let go of this particular gem. 412 00:19:32,255 --> 00:19:35,508 'Cause he's sensing that this is going to be the greatest case 413 00:19:35,550 --> 00:19:38,845 he ever sits on, and is that going to affect his behavior 414 00:19:38,887 --> 00:19:41,514 and his rulings throughout the course of the trial? 415 00:19:41,556 --> 00:19:43,117 (announcer) Our regularly scheduled program 416 00:19:43,141 --> 00:19:45,643 will not be seen tonight so that we may bring you 417 00:19:45,685 --> 00:19:48,188 the following special presentation. 418 00:19:48,229 --> 00:19:52,567 (Paul) WMUR TV station basically suspended all their programming, 419 00:19:52,609 --> 00:19:56,529 9:00, 9:30 in the morning till 4:00 in the afternoon, 420 00:19:56,571 --> 00:19:58,740 and just broadcasts the trial. 421 00:19:58,782 --> 00:20:02,702 Also, the last two rows were nothing but photographers. 422 00:20:02,744 --> 00:20:04,180 (Tami) The trial was five weeks long, 423 00:20:04,204 --> 00:20:06,373 and I covered every minute of it. 424 00:20:07,874 --> 00:20:09,584 This one, this one I took. 425 00:20:12,128 --> 00:20:14,339 That's Pam at trial looking... 426 00:20:14,381 --> 00:20:16,549 she's very demure, but she's in handcuffs. 427 00:20:16,591 --> 00:20:19,135 But she's dressed up and made up and her hair is done. 428 00:20:19,177 --> 00:20:20,863 And she always looked really good during the trial, 429 00:20:20,887 --> 00:20:22,430 but she always had a bow in her hair, 430 00:20:22,472 --> 00:20:23,991 and that was sort of her trademark thing. 431 00:20:24,015 --> 00:20:28,728 ♪♪ 432 00:20:28,770 --> 00:20:31,314 I know one of the newspapers had a daily story about 433 00:20:31,356 --> 00:20:33,108 what she wore to the trial. 434 00:20:33,149 --> 00:20:36,277 - It was newspapers, plus the TV every single day. 435 00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:38,947 This is great. 436 00:20:38,988 --> 00:20:42,409 - You've got passion, you've got lust, maybe greed, 437 00:20:42,450 --> 00:20:44,703 depending upon who you believe, and you've got 438 00:20:44,744 --> 00:20:47,080 some conflicting stories, and a real human drama. 439 00:20:47,122 --> 00:20:49,666 - You've got the prosecutor that, I think, 440 00:20:49,708 --> 00:20:51,710 reminds me of Groucho Marx. 441 00:20:51,751 --> 00:20:54,671 I've got... you've got Pamela Smart's lawyer 442 00:20:54,713 --> 00:20:56,589 that reminds me of Chevy Chase. 443 00:20:56,631 --> 00:20:58,484 And you've got Billy Flynn that looks like Paul McCartney. 444 00:20:58,508 --> 00:21:00,051 I think they already had a movie. 445 00:21:02,387 --> 00:21:04,180 (Mark) In this type of a situation, 446 00:21:04,222 --> 00:21:08,727 the potential for tainting a jury was very, very high 447 00:21:08,768 --> 00:21:10,562 if you didn't have the protection 448 00:21:10,603 --> 00:21:12,731 of being able to sequester the jury away. 449 00:21:12,772 --> 00:21:16,568 - Sequestered means where the jurors basically 450 00:21:16,609 --> 00:21:20,613 are locked up in hotel rooms 451 00:21:20,655 --> 00:21:22,615 after the court during the day. 452 00:21:22,657 --> 00:21:25,118 But the reality is the cost is extraordinary 453 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,995 to sequester jurors. 454 00:21:27,037 --> 00:21:28,848 So I don't think they needed to be sequestered. 455 00:21:28,872 --> 00:21:30,874 (man) We didn't pick twelve angels. 456 00:21:30,915 --> 00:21:33,960 I mean, these people are human beings and they're susceptible 457 00:21:34,002 --> 00:21:36,504 to being influenced just like anybody else is. 458 00:21:44,888 --> 00:21:46,890 (reporter) This is the view from the air. 459 00:21:46,931 --> 00:21:49,476 Not a single available parking space. 460 00:21:49,517 --> 00:21:56,024 ♪♪ 461 00:21:56,066 --> 00:21:59,778 (Pamela) I remember not being in a complete panic 462 00:21:59,819 --> 00:22:02,489 because I knew I hadn't done anything. 463 00:22:02,530 --> 00:22:05,617 And I was in my mind saying to myself, 464 00:22:05,658 --> 00:22:07,494 this is going to get straightened out. 465 00:22:07,535 --> 00:22:10,121 I haven't committed any crime. 466 00:22:10,163 --> 00:22:11,539 This is a mistake. 467 00:22:11,581 --> 00:22:15,669 I was 22 years old, I was very naive. 468 00:22:15,710 --> 00:22:18,463 I had this relatively normal upbringing 469 00:22:18,505 --> 00:22:19,923 and normal life. 470 00:22:19,964 --> 00:22:24,552 I was pretty much an uneventful person, 471 00:22:24,594 --> 00:22:26,554 I did what I was supposed to do. 472 00:22:26,596 --> 00:22:29,557 I went to school, I went to college afterwards, 473 00:22:29,599 --> 00:22:33,019 had a boyfriend, I got married. 474 00:22:33,061 --> 00:22:35,105 Life was pretty simple. 475 00:22:35,146 --> 00:22:38,650 I was under the belief that the only people that went to prison 476 00:22:38,692 --> 00:22:39,943 were people that were guilty, 477 00:22:39,984 --> 00:22:41,611 and that if you were innocent, 478 00:22:41,653 --> 00:22:43,697 it would be proven in the court of law, 479 00:22:43,738 --> 00:22:45,740 and that's the end of the story. 480 00:22:58,628 --> 00:23:01,089 - On the very first day, official day 481 00:23:01,131 --> 00:23:02,984 of the Pamela Smart accomplice to murder trial... 482 00:23:03,008 --> 00:23:05,111 - Opening statements are scheduled for tomorrow morning. 483 00:23:05,135 --> 00:23:07,387 - In fact, he testified that Pamela Smart even bought 484 00:23:07,429 --> 00:23:09,264 the bullets... - Revealing more details 485 00:23:09,305 --> 00:23:11,367 about his alleged love affair... - During the afternoon 486 00:23:11,391 --> 00:23:14,561 after school to have sex in her car, in her house, 487 00:23:14,602 --> 00:23:16,688 and even at a Seabrook ballfield. 488 00:23:16,730 --> 00:23:19,357 - Went car shopping at a car dealership in Exeter. 489 00:23:19,399 --> 00:23:22,569 She planned to buy either a Camaro or a TransAm. 490 00:23:22,610 --> 00:23:27,741 ♪♪ 491 00:23:27,782 --> 00:23:29,743 (Mark) It was the first trial in history 492 00:23:29,784 --> 00:23:31,578 televised gavel to gavel. 493 00:23:31,619 --> 00:23:33,329 We were guinea pigs. 494 00:23:33,371 --> 00:23:34,706 ♪♪ 495 00:23:34,748 --> 00:23:37,167 (Pelletier) People are watching big time. 496 00:23:37,208 --> 00:23:38,460 Although I'm pretty confident 497 00:23:38,501 --> 00:23:39,919 we're gonna get a guilty verdict, 498 00:23:39,961 --> 00:23:42,756 I've gotta be there I've got to hear it live. 499 00:23:42,797 --> 00:23:45,091 We sat in the front row that day. 500 00:23:49,846 --> 00:23:52,265 (female reporter) Live, this is a live following 501 00:23:52,307 --> 00:23:54,601 the verdict at the Rockingham County Courthouse 502 00:23:54,642 --> 00:23:57,645 in Exeter, Pamela Smart was just found guilty. 503 00:23:57,687 --> 00:24:00,940 - And God and the justice system works in this society, 504 00:24:00,982 --> 00:24:03,109 and we are very, very happy. 505 00:24:03,151 --> 00:24:05,403 - She got what she deserves. - She's getting... yes. 506 00:24:05,445 --> 00:24:07,155 - I think justice was done. 507 00:24:07,197 --> 00:24:09,115 - I thought that's where it was gonna come out. 508 00:24:09,157 --> 00:24:10,784 - She deserves it. 509 00:24:10,825 --> 00:24:12,327 - Do you feel it was a fair trial? 510 00:24:12,369 --> 00:24:14,037 - Do you think it was fair? 511 00:24:14,079 --> 00:24:16,206 From the beginning, it wasn't fair. 512 00:24:21,586 --> 00:24:23,630 ♪♪ 513 00:24:23,672 --> 00:24:25,757 (reporter) Defense attorneys are looking at 514 00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:28,009 several avenues for a possible appeal. 515 00:24:28,051 --> 00:24:30,929 Many people believe there is no way the jury could have avoided 516 00:24:30,970 --> 00:24:32,972 contact with the media during the trial. 517 00:24:33,014 --> 00:24:35,892 But in order to prove that, they're gonna have to find out 518 00:24:35,934 --> 00:24:38,395 from a juror or from a juror's relatives, 519 00:24:38,436 --> 00:24:44,401 or somebody that indeed their decision was tainted. 520 00:24:44,442 --> 00:24:47,028 (recorder running) 521 00:25:00,917 --> 00:25:03,253 (Juror 13) You know, the jury's taken a lot of rap, 522 00:25:03,294 --> 00:25:04,897 and I can't speak for everybody on the jury, 523 00:25:04,921 --> 00:25:06,840 but I can certainly speak for me. 524 00:25:06,881 --> 00:25:08,508 They just didn't give her a defense. 525 00:25:08,550 --> 00:25:10,844 I mean, I felt like when 526 00:25:10,885 --> 00:25:13,054 they said that the defense rests its case, 527 00:25:13,096 --> 00:25:15,849 I couldn't believe it. I was like, no way. 528 00:25:15,890 --> 00:25:17,684 That's not fair, 529 00:25:17,726 --> 00:25:19,366 because I don't believe she deserves that. 530 00:25:19,394 --> 00:25:22,939 And I think that the circus of the media was ridiculous. 531 00:25:22,981 --> 00:25:25,859 About ten billion cameras... (imitates clicking) 532 00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:27,360 going off, and everybody's taking 533 00:25:27,402 --> 00:25:30,947 billions of pictures, which I think rots. 534 00:25:30,989 --> 00:25:33,616 I just think it rots. 535 00:25:33,658 --> 00:25:36,870 ♪♪ 536 00:25:39,664 --> 00:25:43,001 - Cameras, by looking at the courtroom environment, 537 00:25:43,043 --> 00:25:45,253 changes the nature of that courtroom environment. 538 00:25:45,295 --> 00:25:49,215 Werner Heisenberg, quantum physicist, 539 00:25:49,257 --> 00:25:51,968 studied microscopic particles, and he realized 540 00:25:52,010 --> 00:25:55,930 that those particles changed form in some sort of way 541 00:25:55,972 --> 00:25:59,893 by injecting energy into that system. 542 00:25:59,934 --> 00:26:04,189 And he comes up with this Heisenberg principle. 543 00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:07,484 It was an observation that the act of observing 544 00:26:07,525 --> 00:26:11,946 a physical entity changes by the act of that observation. 545 00:26:13,323 --> 00:26:17,285 That people are different as a result of being observed. 546 00:26:17,327 --> 00:26:19,496 There's a self consciousness, in other words, 547 00:26:19,537 --> 00:26:22,832 that goes on by being part of a television event. 548 00:26:24,959 --> 00:26:28,088 - It was not a trial, it was a spectacle. 549 00:26:28,129 --> 00:26:30,924 But after the trial was over, state of New Hampshire wanted 550 00:26:30,965 --> 00:26:33,635 to put her as far away as possible. 551 00:26:34,969 --> 00:26:37,097 (reporter) This morning, they confirmed that 552 00:26:37,138 --> 00:26:39,724 the convicted murder-conspirator was transferred to a prison 553 00:26:39,766 --> 00:26:41,142 in New York State. 554 00:26:41,184 --> 00:26:43,186 (Pamela) They woke me up at 4:00 in the morning 555 00:26:43,228 --> 00:26:46,189 and told me to get out of the bed, and they just 556 00:26:46,231 --> 00:26:48,066 whisked me away in a van 557 00:26:48,108 --> 00:26:50,068 and took me to New York with no notice. 558 00:26:50,110 --> 00:26:53,279 I was handcuffed, I was shackled. 559 00:26:53,321 --> 00:26:56,324 It was like this big secret, and I was really afraid. 560 00:26:56,366 --> 00:26:59,160 I actually thought they were going to kill me. 561 00:26:59,202 --> 00:27:03,498 - They brought into effect, for the first time ever 562 00:27:03,540 --> 00:27:05,834 in the history of the state of New Hampshire, 563 00:27:05,875 --> 00:27:09,504 an interstate compact which they had with 564 00:27:09,546 --> 00:27:11,673 the state of New York, 565 00:27:11,715 --> 00:27:14,259 which allowed transfer of prisoners. 566 00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:18,805 And for no reason whatsoever, except they could not stand 567 00:27:18,847 --> 00:27:22,976 the circumspection people coming to the prison 568 00:27:23,018 --> 00:27:25,437 and determining for their own minds who were 569 00:27:25,478 --> 00:27:29,232 interested in whether or not she received a fair trial. 570 00:27:57,260 --> 00:27:59,512 (Cherie Alzate) Pam had a high profile case, 571 00:27:59,554 --> 00:28:01,181 so everyone knew that 572 00:28:01,222 --> 00:28:03,975 this pretty little blonde girl was coming. 573 00:28:05,143 --> 00:28:07,354 The sharks were waiting for her. 574 00:28:07,395 --> 00:28:09,981 - Things that go on in there are not good. 575 00:28:10,023 --> 00:28:11,983 They're not good, and the things that happened 576 00:28:12,025 --> 00:28:14,736 to Pamela Smart are even worse. 577 00:28:16,237 --> 00:28:19,491 (Cherie) From day one, Pam was a punching bag. 578 00:28:19,532 --> 00:28:20,784 I remember one time, 579 00:28:20,825 --> 00:28:23,161 they broke the eye socket on her. 580 00:28:23,203 --> 00:28:24,930 (Pamela) Just started punching me in my face. 581 00:28:24,954 --> 00:28:27,248 (Robin) She still has, like, a metal plate in there. 582 00:28:27,290 --> 00:28:30,043 (Pamela) Another girl came and was kicking me in my face. 583 00:28:30,085 --> 00:28:33,046 - Not only from the inmates, the officers, too. 584 00:28:34,881 --> 00:28:37,884 (woman) Pam Smart was more vulnerable than most. 585 00:28:37,926 --> 00:28:41,262 She was raped in prison by a guard, 586 00:28:41,304 --> 00:28:44,516 who sold these pictures to the "National Enquirer." 587 00:28:47,727 --> 00:28:50,230 He made up this entire pedigree 588 00:28:50,271 --> 00:28:52,649 where she is the master manipulator 589 00:28:52,691 --> 00:28:54,901 and head of a sex and dope ring 590 00:28:54,943 --> 00:28:57,779 and controls the corrupt guards. 591 00:28:57,821 --> 00:29:02,409 You know, the old story, Pamela the seducer. 592 00:29:02,450 --> 00:29:05,912 And of course, he posed her in a way that was very similar 593 00:29:05,954 --> 00:29:08,707 to the famous bikini picture. 594 00:29:08,748 --> 00:29:13,169 This bikini shot turned up at the trial as something that 595 00:29:13,211 --> 00:29:17,966 Pam had done to seduce Billy Flynn. 596 00:29:18,008 --> 00:29:21,177 But the truth is, she and her friend Tracy were posing 597 00:29:21,219 --> 00:29:25,140 for each other to enter it into a contest. 598 00:29:27,809 --> 00:29:32,105 The bikini photo was part of the story. 599 00:29:32,147 --> 00:29:33,732 The story is bogus, 600 00:29:33,773 --> 00:29:37,152 but the consequences to Pam are real. 601 00:29:45,827 --> 00:29:49,622 (Pamela) In about two weeks, I'm gonna have literally spent 602 00:29:49,664 --> 00:29:52,876 half of my life in prison. 603 00:29:52,917 --> 00:29:56,671 I have been trying to get back into court, and to this day, 604 00:29:56,713 --> 00:30:01,092 I'm left to try to chip away at this avalanche 605 00:30:01,134 --> 00:30:04,429 of negative image that hurts me. 606 00:30:04,471 --> 00:30:07,974 ♪♪ 607 00:30:11,102 --> 00:30:13,313 (Joyce) I only know Pamela Smart 608 00:30:13,355 --> 00:30:15,106 as she's appeared on television. 609 00:30:15,148 --> 00:30:19,527 I only know the media Pam Smart. 610 00:30:19,569 --> 00:30:22,906 Seeing humanity on a screen, it loses humanity. 611 00:30:22,947 --> 00:30:24,824 It's just these images. 612 00:30:24,866 --> 00:30:27,410 (man) How do you find the defendant, Pamela Smart, 613 00:30:27,452 --> 00:30:29,746 on the charge of accomplice to murder in the first degree? 614 00:30:29,788 --> 00:30:31,748 (juror) Guilty, Your Honor. 615 00:30:31,790 --> 00:30:33,416 (crowd cheers) 616 00:30:33,458 --> 00:30:37,003 - I directed a film made for television for CBS. 617 00:30:37,045 --> 00:30:38,630 - Pam... 618 00:30:38,672 --> 00:30:41,466 - Could someone call my mother, please? 619 00:30:41,508 --> 00:30:43,677 And would someone get the dog? 620 00:30:43,718 --> 00:30:47,180 (Joyce C.) The film was shot in the summer of '91, 621 00:30:47,222 --> 00:30:50,558 just a few months after Pamela Smart was convicted, 622 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,353 and it was broadcast by September. 623 00:30:53,395 --> 00:30:57,232 And I think it was the first quote ripped from the headlines. 624 00:30:57,273 --> 00:31:01,361 "TV movie: sex with a teenager and murder." 625 00:31:01,403 --> 00:31:03,697 What an easy sale to television? 626 00:31:03,738 --> 00:31:06,241 (gunshot) 627 00:31:06,282 --> 00:31:10,078 - Nicole Kidman, my God, I was very lucky as people go 628 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:11,788 who get their books made into movies. 629 00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:15,125 - You're not anybody in America unless you're on TV. 630 00:31:15,166 --> 00:31:18,253 On TV is where we learn about who we really are. 631 00:31:18,294 --> 00:31:19,838 (Joyce M.) I wanted to be Pamela Smart, 632 00:31:19,879 --> 00:31:21,881 and I was writing her monologues. 633 00:31:21,923 --> 00:31:25,051 Did I say Pamela Smart or did I say Suzanne Maretto? 634 00:31:25,093 --> 00:31:27,053 Suzanne Maretto, 635 00:31:27,095 --> 00:31:28,406 I'll speak of my, the character in my book, 636 00:31:28,430 --> 00:31:32,058 is a sociopath who didn't have a soul, 637 00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:34,227 who'd really lost her soul 638 00:31:34,269 --> 00:31:36,479 somewhere along the line to television. 639 00:31:36,521 --> 00:31:37,981 ♪♪ 640 00:31:38,023 --> 00:31:40,275 (Pamela) "Pamela Smart is cold, flighty, 641 00:31:40,316 --> 00:31:43,236 "an airhead and manipulative, 642 00:31:43,278 --> 00:31:48,783 calculating, self centered, tantalizing." 643 00:31:48,825 --> 00:31:50,910 People say, "Oh, that's you. 644 00:31:50,952 --> 00:31:52,912 Oh, I saw your movie." 645 00:31:52,954 --> 00:31:55,874 And it's like, this is not my movie. 646 00:31:55,915 --> 00:31:58,293 Nothing in here is my story. 647 00:32:01,504 --> 00:32:05,091 It's not, it's just their interpretation of what happened. 648 00:32:05,133 --> 00:32:06,593 And these are the kinds of things 649 00:32:06,634 --> 00:32:09,387 that help prevent me from getting back into court. 650 00:32:09,429 --> 00:32:13,141 - You're a cold-blooded murderer, a non-caring... 651 00:32:16,770 --> 00:32:18,605 (indistinct chatter) 652 00:32:18,646 --> 00:32:21,775 - And I also hope that this is the absolute last time my family 653 00:32:21,816 --> 00:32:23,276 and I have to look at your face. 654 00:32:23,318 --> 00:32:25,945 - Superior Court Judge Douglas Grey says media coverage 655 00:32:25,987 --> 00:32:28,198 of Smart's case did not deny her 656 00:32:28,239 --> 00:32:30,533 a right to a fair trial last month. 657 00:32:30,575 --> 00:32:33,244 - Without comment, the five justices unanimously 658 00:32:33,286 --> 00:32:35,663 denied a defense request earlier this month. 659 00:32:40,752 --> 00:32:43,630 - We can't make these high stakes decisions... 660 00:32:43,672 --> 00:32:46,299 innocent, guilt... we can't make 661 00:32:46,341 --> 00:32:50,804 these decisions on the basis of fantasy. 662 00:32:50,845 --> 00:32:52,972 We have to be able to know 663 00:32:53,014 --> 00:32:56,559 what the reality is as best we can. 664 00:32:59,020 --> 00:33:03,274 - If you were the defendant in that case, would you think 665 00:33:03,316 --> 00:33:07,278 you'd gotten a fair shake from the justice system? 666 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,865 And if you answer that question, "I don't know," 667 00:33:10,907 --> 00:33:12,659 then you should be saying to me, 668 00:33:12,701 --> 00:33:15,787 "Well, let's hear it in more detail." 669 00:33:15,829 --> 00:33:17,455 (recorder clicks) 670 00:33:17,497 --> 00:33:20,125 Isn't it time to take another look 671 00:33:20,166 --> 00:33:22,711 at the Pam Smart trial? 672 00:33:25,797 --> 00:33:29,718 - Today was the first day of the Pam Smart trial 673 00:33:29,759 --> 00:33:33,013 and there was media everywhere. 674 00:33:33,054 --> 00:33:36,891 I felt like a bug in a glass jar. 675 00:33:36,933 --> 00:33:39,936 And I'm not supposed to be talking about it to anybody, 676 00:33:39,978 --> 00:33:42,689 and so I'm making a tape. 677 00:33:42,731 --> 00:33:46,526 It's easier to talk to a tape, anyway. 678 00:33:46,568 --> 00:33:48,528 Well, today started out, 679 00:33:48,570 --> 00:33:52,198 the 15 jurors met in the jury room. 680 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,412 Then we got in the bus and off we went. 681 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,462 So we drove to Derry, 682 00:34:05,503 --> 00:34:08,423 right into the condominium. 683 00:34:08,465 --> 00:34:11,259 It was nasty and rainy and cold. 684 00:34:12,886 --> 00:34:18,516 And half of us went into the Smart condominium. 685 00:34:20,018 --> 00:34:21,311 Um, about Pamela Smart? 686 00:34:21,353 --> 00:34:23,897 What'd I feel about her today? 687 00:34:23,938 --> 00:34:25,940 She looked... 688 00:34:25,982 --> 00:34:29,944 tiny, troubled. 689 00:34:29,986 --> 00:34:35,450 I just can't even imagine what she must be feeling. 690 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:38,703 Hmm... 691 00:35:22,247 --> 00:35:24,624 ♪♪ 692 00:35:24,666 --> 00:35:27,627 - Good morning, everyone, I'm Nanette Hansen, 693 00:35:27,669 --> 00:35:30,714 WMURTV's live coverage of the Pamela Smart 694 00:35:30,755 --> 00:35:33,633 accomplice to murder trial is about to resume. 695 00:35:33,675 --> 00:35:35,969 Court proceedings are about to get underway. 696 00:35:36,011 --> 00:35:38,847 William Flynn, the self admitted trigger man 697 00:35:38,888 --> 00:35:41,057 in the murder of Greggory Smart, 698 00:35:41,099 --> 00:35:42,642 has entered the courtroom. 699 00:35:42,684 --> 00:35:45,228 - We had Billy Flynn on the stand pretty early on 700 00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:49,107 in the case because we thought he could explain everything 701 00:35:49,149 --> 00:35:51,651 about Pam Smart, the murder, 702 00:35:51,693 --> 00:35:54,487 the orchestration, so the jury could have a whole story. 703 00:35:54,529 --> 00:35:57,490 - I didn't want to kill Gregg. 704 00:35:57,532 --> 00:36:00,702 I wanted to be with Pam, and that's what I had to do 705 00:36:00,744 --> 00:36:04,039 to be with Pam, but I didn't want to kill Gregg. 706 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,292 (Paul M.) Uh, Billy Flynn clearly came across as a kid 707 00:36:07,334 --> 00:36:09,836 who had fallen for Pam Smart, 708 00:36:09,878 --> 00:36:11,838 and without the influence of Pam Smart on him, 709 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,090 probably never would've pulled that trigger. 710 00:36:14,132 --> 00:36:15,675 - Yeah, every time I talked to Pam, 711 00:36:15,717 --> 00:36:17,528 and if she happened to say, you know, "Make sure 712 00:36:17,552 --> 00:36:20,513 you use a gun, don't use anything else," I'd say yes. 713 00:36:33,902 --> 00:36:36,738 (Billy) Well... 714 00:36:36,780 --> 00:36:38,948 just, um... 715 00:36:43,995 --> 00:36:46,539 (prosecutor) Now where did you go after school that day? 716 00:36:46,581 --> 00:36:48,291 - Well, we drove up to Derry. 717 00:36:48,333 --> 00:36:53,380 When we decided it was dark enough, Pete and myself taped 718 00:36:53,421 --> 00:36:56,174 our fingertips up, then put the gloves... 719 00:36:56,216 --> 00:36:58,551 started walking towards Pam's condo, 720 00:36:58,593 --> 00:37:01,054 and we went down the bulkhead doors. 721 00:37:01,096 --> 00:37:04,557 - What did you do next? 722 00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:07,811 - Well, we went upstairs, 723 00:37:07,852 --> 00:37:12,440 Pete and I, right into Pam's room. 724 00:37:12,482 --> 00:37:14,293 We started dumping out the drawers and everything 725 00:37:14,317 --> 00:37:16,778 so it'd look like a burglary. 726 00:37:16,820 --> 00:37:18,446 (Pelletier) Then they wait. 727 00:37:18,488 --> 00:37:19,823 Gregg Smart arrives home. 728 00:37:19,864 --> 00:37:21,658 He gets punched and he gets ambushed. 729 00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:24,369 He gets grabbed, and he gets forced to his knees 730 00:37:24,411 --> 00:37:26,413 and he's saying, 731 00:37:26,454 --> 00:37:28,140 "Take whatever you want, take whatever you want." 732 00:37:28,164 --> 00:37:31,042 (Paul M.) Billy Flynn was kneeling in front of the jury 733 00:37:31,084 --> 00:37:33,962 on the ground showing how helpless Gregg Smart was. 734 00:37:34,004 --> 00:37:37,048 And you could hear a pin drop in the courtroom. 735 00:37:37,090 --> 00:37:38,550 Gregg Smart never saw the gun. 736 00:37:38,591 --> 00:37:40,885 All Gregg Smart knew was that Patrick Randall 737 00:37:40,927 --> 00:37:43,304 was on the other side of him with a knife to his neck, 738 00:37:43,346 --> 00:37:46,474 and the original plan was to kill him with the knife. 739 00:37:46,516 --> 00:37:49,394 (prosecutor) Why weren't you able to cut his throat? 740 00:37:51,104 --> 00:37:52,647 - I just couldn't do it. 741 00:37:52,689 --> 00:37:54,041 - Well, when you felt you couldn't, 742 00:37:54,065 --> 00:37:55,775 describe what happened next. 743 00:37:59,529 --> 00:38:01,072 I motioned to Pete, 744 00:38:01,114 --> 00:38:05,994 um, like this, because that where I had the gun. 745 00:38:06,036 --> 00:38:08,997 - What happened after that? 746 00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:11,833 - Um, Pete... 747 00:38:13,835 --> 00:38:16,296 Uh, nodded his head yes. 748 00:38:16,338 --> 00:38:18,965 - And after Pete nodded his head yes, 749 00:38:19,007 --> 00:38:22,510 what did you do? 750 00:38:22,552 --> 00:38:24,512 - I cocked the handle back, and, um... 751 00:38:24,554 --> 00:38:27,724 I pointed the gun at his head. 752 00:38:27,766 --> 00:38:30,101 - "And what did you next?" And he didn't really 753 00:38:30,143 --> 00:38:33,146 wanna say it, you know, and he's tearing up and he's crying. 754 00:38:33,188 --> 00:38:34,373 "Billy, what did you do next?" 755 00:38:34,397 --> 00:38:36,608 - And, uh... 756 00:38:40,445 --> 00:38:43,073 I said, um, 757 00:38:43,114 --> 00:38:45,116 God forgive me... 758 00:38:57,045 --> 00:38:59,214 - After you said, "God forgive me", 759 00:38:59,255 --> 00:39:01,091 what happened? 760 00:39:01,132 --> 00:39:03,718 - (crying) 761 00:39:06,971 --> 00:39:09,349 I pulled the trigger. 762 00:39:09,391 --> 00:39:11,810 (Paul M.) "I pulled the trigger." 763 00:39:11,851 --> 00:39:14,038 You know? And then the judge immediately called a recess. 764 00:39:14,062 --> 00:39:16,189 I mean, I couldn't have asked for a better recess. 765 00:39:16,231 --> 00:39:18,608 To emphasize the dramatic part of the trial. 766 00:39:18,650 --> 00:39:22,696 - We'll be back when the trial reconvenes. 767 00:39:22,737 --> 00:39:24,072 (announcer) It is from Kodak. 768 00:39:25,865 --> 00:39:27,992 The genius is in the details. 769 00:39:29,244 --> 00:39:32,497 ♪♪ 770 00:39:35,917 --> 00:39:37,877 (Joyce C.) I did have sympathy for Billy. 771 00:39:37,919 --> 00:39:42,549 How they got into this crazy situation is understandable. 772 00:39:42,590 --> 00:39:47,721 Billy was sexually obsessed with Pam. 773 00:39:47,762 --> 00:39:50,223 (Alec) We can't forget that she's like a grown woman 774 00:39:50,265 --> 00:39:51,725 and he is a child. 775 00:39:51,766 --> 00:39:55,645 Manipulation is... easy. 776 00:39:56,896 --> 00:39:58,523 (Joyce M.) That boy touches me. 777 00:39:58,565 --> 00:40:00,734 Somebody who was once somebody's little boy 778 00:40:00,775 --> 00:40:04,696 playing little league, who got terribly, horribly, 779 00:40:04,738 --> 00:40:06,072 irretrievably lost. 780 00:40:06,114 --> 00:40:07,949 - She worked within the school system 781 00:40:07,991 --> 00:40:10,326 and the fact that all of this static from the school system 782 00:40:10,368 --> 00:40:11,661 just says one thing to me, 783 00:40:11,703 --> 00:40:13,580 that this could've been anybody's kid. 784 00:40:13,621 --> 00:40:15,749 - I have two 16-year-old brothers, 785 00:40:15,790 --> 00:40:18,418 and I think she should definitely go to jail. 786 00:40:18,460 --> 00:40:20,545 I can't even imagine getting kids 787 00:40:20,587 --> 00:40:21,605 involved in something like this. 788 00:40:21,629 --> 00:40:23,381 - It teaches our school children 789 00:40:23,423 --> 00:40:24,841 we don't need her around. 790 00:40:24,883 --> 00:40:28,428 ♪♪ 791 00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:32,098 Uh... 792 00:40:32,140 --> 00:40:33,826 It's pretty tough sitting in that courtroom. 793 00:40:33,850 --> 00:40:35,894 I have a wicked back... that chair I'm sitting in 794 00:40:35,935 --> 00:40:38,438 is terrible, terrible, terrible. 795 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,983 Anyway, let's see. 796 00:40:42,025 --> 00:40:44,069 Bill Flynn. 797 00:40:44,110 --> 00:40:46,029 He has, like this really babyfaced, 798 00:40:46,071 --> 00:40:48,448 innocent looking, sweet as pie. 799 00:40:48,490 --> 00:40:50,533 And he's the masterpiece of this whole thing, 800 00:40:50,575 --> 00:40:52,118 he's the actual trigger man. 801 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,245 He even pulled some tears in court. 802 00:40:54,287 --> 00:40:55,330 Ha! 803 00:40:55,372 --> 00:40:57,874 I wasn't impressed. 804 00:40:57,916 --> 00:41:02,879 Here's this kid sitting up there admitting to first degree 805 00:41:02,921 --> 00:41:05,965 premeditated murder, 806 00:41:06,007 --> 00:41:09,594 and did a deal with the state to lower 807 00:41:09,636 --> 00:41:14,933 his charges to a second degree murder charge. 808 00:41:14,974 --> 00:41:17,811 Now, second degree murder, as I understand it, 809 00:41:17,852 --> 00:41:19,854 is not premeditated. 810 00:41:19,896 --> 00:41:21,648 He's saying they talked about it for weeks. 811 00:41:21,690 --> 00:41:23,149 They had planned for weeks. 812 00:41:23,191 --> 00:41:25,110 They discussed it over and over and over again. 813 00:41:25,151 --> 00:41:29,155 They had it all planned out, admitted to everything. 814 00:41:29,197 --> 00:41:31,282 ♪♪ 815 00:41:31,324 --> 00:41:32,677 (Pamela) I know that when they were arraigned, 816 00:41:32,701 --> 00:41:34,244 they pled not guilty. 817 00:41:34,285 --> 00:41:36,746 Originally they were saying that they had nothing to do 818 00:41:36,788 --> 00:41:41,126 with the case, my name was nowhere in it. 819 00:41:41,167 --> 00:41:45,046 And they ended up taking plea bargains. 820 00:41:45,088 --> 00:41:47,716 And those plea bargains were contingent upon them 821 00:41:47,757 --> 00:41:49,718 testifying against me. 822 00:41:49,759 --> 00:41:52,387 And they started to say, "Well, yeah, okay, we did this, 823 00:41:52,429 --> 00:41:55,223 but she told us to do this." 824 00:41:55,265 --> 00:41:59,019 (Erin) Once they were certified to be tried as adults 825 00:41:59,060 --> 00:42:01,187 because of the seriousness of their crime, 826 00:42:01,229 --> 00:42:04,190 that was the big turning point for them. 827 00:42:07,819 --> 00:42:09,130 (Pamela) By taking these plea bargains 828 00:42:09,154 --> 00:42:10,822 and blaming everything on me, 829 00:42:10,864 --> 00:42:13,033 they avoided the capital murder charge 830 00:42:13,074 --> 00:42:15,201 that would have carried the death penalty. 831 00:42:15,243 --> 00:42:17,096 The first degree murder charge would have carried 832 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,623 life in prison and they were able to plea bargain down 833 00:42:20,665 --> 00:42:22,917 to a second degree murder charge. 834 00:42:22,959 --> 00:42:26,254 - Well, an old lawyer said to me once, "If a client's gonna sing, 835 00:42:26,296 --> 00:42:28,631 you sing like a bird, and you cooperate." 836 00:42:28,673 --> 00:42:30,550 - There's no halfway to do it. 837 00:42:30,592 --> 00:42:32,385 You have to cooperate 100%. 838 00:42:32,427 --> 00:42:34,888 - The Attorney General's office has not revealed exactly 839 00:42:34,929 --> 00:42:38,641 how many years in prison William Flynn, Patrick Randall 840 00:42:38,683 --> 00:42:41,019 and Vance Lattime have negotiated 841 00:42:41,061 --> 00:42:43,021 as part of their plea bargains. 842 00:42:43,063 --> 00:42:46,316 But sources close to the case tell News Nine each teen 843 00:42:46,358 --> 00:42:49,235 has been promised 25 years to life, which could make them 844 00:42:49,277 --> 00:42:51,905 eligible for parole after 25 years. 845 00:42:51,946 --> 00:42:53,948 - The family is outraged. 846 00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:56,910 The two men that went in the house and took my son away 847 00:42:56,951 --> 00:43:01,873 from me, coming out of the courtroom, chewing gum, 848 00:43:01,915 --> 00:43:04,250 slapping hands and smiling. 849 00:43:04,292 --> 00:43:08,088 Who could do something like that and have no remorse? 850 00:43:08,129 --> 00:43:11,174 - But isn't that strange that after that, 851 00:43:11,216 --> 00:43:13,176 Bill pulled a bunch of tears? 852 00:43:13,218 --> 00:43:16,137 I would say they're crocodile tears. 853 00:43:18,598 --> 00:43:20,058 - I caught him in the morning, 854 00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:22,811 him and Pete doing lines on a desk in the room. 855 00:43:22,852 --> 00:43:24,622 I caught him one morning, I opened up the door 856 00:43:24,646 --> 00:43:25,939 and they were banging lines 857 00:43:25,980 --> 00:43:27,691 before they were gonna testify. 858 00:43:27,732 --> 00:43:29,372 And he goes, "It makes me more emotional." 859 00:43:29,401 --> 00:43:31,820 He goes, "It makes me more emotional on the stand." 860 00:43:31,861 --> 00:43:34,197 He said, "Don't you know this? Don't you know this? 861 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,117 "Don't you notice?" Because I used to sit there 862 00:43:37,158 --> 00:43:40,120 and watch the boys when they come back in. 863 00:43:40,161 --> 00:43:42,181 They would watch themselves on TV, and I was with them, 864 00:43:42,205 --> 00:43:45,208 and we would all sit around, we’d smoke a bone in the cell, 865 00:43:45,250 --> 00:43:46,918 a joint, a reefer, 866 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,212 weed, marijuana, whatever you want to call it. 867 00:43:49,254 --> 00:43:53,258 We were doing everything we were doing, especially marijuana, 868 00:43:53,299 --> 00:43:55,969 morphine, Valiums, and the cocaine, of course. 869 00:43:56,011 --> 00:43:58,179 I had one way where I th... I had someone throw 870 00:43:58,221 --> 00:44:00,306 Nerf football over the fence. 871 00:44:00,348 --> 00:44:03,309 And inside the Nerf football would be the drugs. 872 00:44:03,351 --> 00:44:06,354 The funny thing was that there would be a different color 873 00:44:06,396 --> 00:44:07,814 Nerf football out there every day 874 00:44:07,856 --> 00:44:09,649 and the cops wouldn't even realize it. 875 00:44:09,691 --> 00:44:11,002 I could've got a gun in if I wanted to, 876 00:44:11,026 --> 00:44:13,194 but I'm not a gun person. 877 00:44:21,578 --> 00:44:24,122 Billy told me straight out that, "Listen, Rick," he says, 878 00:44:24,164 --> 00:44:27,125 "we gotta do what we gotta do, and I'm not taking my boys 879 00:44:27,167 --> 00:44:28,686 "down with me for the rest of our lives. 880 00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:30,337 We're not doing it." 881 00:44:30,378 --> 00:44:32,505 ♪♪ 882 00:44:32,547 --> 00:44:36,009 (Mark) Flynn was bragging about his testimony to inmates 883 00:44:36,051 --> 00:44:37,052 that he put a show on. 884 00:44:37,093 --> 00:44:38,511 "How did you like me crying?" 885 00:44:38,553 --> 00:44:42,015 The trial was in play when we got that information. 886 00:44:42,057 --> 00:44:48,772 Judge Grey denied our attempt at recalling Flynn. 887 00:44:48,813 --> 00:44:50,231 (Pamela) It's not just one instance 888 00:44:50,273 --> 00:44:52,525 that was precluded from being entered into evidence. 889 00:44:52,567 --> 00:44:56,029 So the jury never really got the full picture, 890 00:44:56,071 --> 00:44:58,656 of the witnesses or of the evidence. 891 00:44:58,698 --> 00:45:03,661 ♪♪ 892 00:45:03,703 --> 00:45:05,080 There was a fourth person, 893 00:45:05,121 --> 00:45:07,248 he was actually the initial one 894 00:45:07,290 --> 00:45:09,209 that came forward, Raymond Fowler, 895 00:45:09,250 --> 00:45:12,879 and told the first account of what had happened. 896 00:45:12,921 --> 00:45:16,049 He said that I had nothing to do with this. 897 00:45:16,091 --> 00:45:18,551 We wanted to obviously call him to testify 898 00:45:18,593 --> 00:45:20,053 but the state arrested him. 899 00:45:20,095 --> 00:45:22,263 (Bill) Raymond Fowler has already admitted that 900 00:45:22,305 --> 00:45:25,392 he waited in the car the night Greggory Smart was murdered, 901 00:45:25,433 --> 00:45:28,061 but now police say three weeks before the murder, 902 00:45:28,103 --> 00:45:29,896 Fowler drove here with Billy Flynn, 903 00:45:29,938 --> 00:45:31,398 and he was armed with a knife 904 00:45:31,439 --> 00:45:33,900 and had intended to kill Gregg Smart, 905 00:45:33,942 --> 00:45:35,944 but at the last minute chickened out. 906 00:45:35,985 --> 00:45:39,030 (Rob) Day of the plea bargain, same day as the day 907 00:45:39,072 --> 00:45:41,241 they charged Raymond with the five offenses. 908 00:45:41,282 --> 00:45:43,118 So he was a witness up to that point, 909 00:45:43,159 --> 00:45:46,496 and they turned the three boys against Raymond just to have 910 00:45:46,538 --> 00:45:49,791 enough information to put enough pressure on Raymond so that he'd 911 00:45:49,833 --> 00:45:54,671 plea bargain too and be out of the picture. 912 00:45:54,713 --> 00:45:57,173 If you ask the question, why would it be a problem? 913 00:45:57,215 --> 00:45:59,634 When they took Raymond's deposition, 914 00:45:59,676 --> 00:46:02,762 they probably realized that his story didn't match exactly 915 00:46:02,804 --> 00:46:04,514 to the three boys'. 916 00:46:33,460 --> 00:46:35,420 (reporter) If you're just joining us, this is 917 00:46:35,462 --> 00:46:37,213 WMURTV's live coverage 918 00:46:37,255 --> 00:46:39,632 of the Pamela Smart accomplice to murder trial. 919 00:46:39,674 --> 00:46:43,136 Right now, the defense attorney, Mark Sisti, is preparing 920 00:46:43,178 --> 00:46:45,138 to question the witness on the stand, 921 00:46:45,180 --> 00:46:48,475 18-year-old Vance Lattime Jr. 922 00:46:48,516 --> 00:46:51,770 - You not only talked about this case 923 00:46:51,811 --> 00:46:53,646 at the Rockingham County Jail, 924 00:46:53,688 --> 00:46:56,733 but you talked about this case while you were all locked up 925 00:46:56,775 --> 00:46:59,986 over at the ADC, right? - Wrong. 926 00:47:00,028 --> 00:47:02,197 - You talked to Bill and Pete all the time. 927 00:47:02,238 --> 00:47:03,573 - Nope. 928 00:47:03,615 --> 00:47:05,784 - Did anybody ever tell you we had letters 929 00:47:05,825 --> 00:47:08,203 that you wrote to your girlfriend? 930 00:47:08,244 --> 00:47:09,788 - No. - Do you recall telling 931 00:47:09,829 --> 00:47:14,292 your girlfriend that Bill, or "him", actually, it says, 932 00:47:14,334 --> 00:47:16,920 "him and Pete are the only things 933 00:47:16,961 --> 00:47:19,464 "that remind me of how things were? 934 00:47:19,506 --> 00:47:21,424 We are always talking." 935 00:47:21,466 --> 00:47:23,593 Do you remember telling her that? 936 00:47:23,635 --> 00:47:25,762 - Yes. I've talked... 937 00:47:25,804 --> 00:47:27,263 Since I've been locked up, 938 00:47:27,305 --> 00:47:30,183 I've talked about everything in the case. 939 00:47:30,225 --> 00:47:32,811 - Basically, they discredited him. 940 00:47:32,852 --> 00:47:36,439 He is Bill Flynn's cellmate, 941 00:47:36,481 --> 00:47:41,027 and Pete Randall is two cells down, 942 00:47:41,069 --> 00:47:42,987 open cells. 943 00:47:43,029 --> 00:47:46,241 They had plenty of opportunities 944 00:47:46,282 --> 00:47:49,744 to concoct a story and get their story straight. 945 00:47:49,786 --> 00:47:52,163 Not only did they have plenty of opportunities, 946 00:47:52,205 --> 00:47:56,376 the cross examination revealed that they did. 947 00:47:56,418 --> 00:47:58,229 (Paul Twomey) I've been doing this for 30 years 948 00:47:58,253 --> 00:48:01,881 and in every single case other than one, 949 00:48:01,923 --> 00:48:04,050 there was an effort on the part of the prosecutors, 950 00:48:04,092 --> 00:48:07,095 where there are codefendants and people that will be 951 00:48:07,137 --> 00:48:09,222 telling the same story and they're incarcerated, 952 00:48:09,264 --> 00:48:11,766 there's an effort to keep them apart. 953 00:48:11,808 --> 00:48:16,062 I don't understand the decision to have those boys housed 954 00:48:16,104 --> 00:48:18,857 in the same place and able to talk to each other. 955 00:48:18,898 --> 00:48:22,736 (lawyer) Pete, Pam Smart didn't make you kill anybody, right? 956 00:48:22,777 --> 00:48:24,904 - Right. 957 00:48:24,946 --> 00:48:28,575 - Fact of the matter is that on over 20 occasions, 958 00:48:28,616 --> 00:48:33,663 you and Flynn and Lattime 959 00:48:33,705 --> 00:48:36,291 and Fowler, Daly 960 00:48:36,332 --> 00:48:41,087 sat around brainstorming ways of killing Gregg Smart. 961 00:48:41,129 --> 00:48:42,756 - I had never been with Daly, 962 00:48:42,797 --> 00:48:45,258 but yes, that's true. 963 00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:46,402 - Now, Pam wasn't there, right? 964 00:48:46,426 --> 00:48:48,428 - Right. - Now, during this 965 00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:50,263 same time period, you were ripping off 966 00:48:50,305 --> 00:48:51,848 stereos from cars and stuff? 967 00:48:51,890 --> 00:48:53,183 - Occasionally. 968 00:48:53,224 --> 00:48:55,560 - Still stealing motorcycles? 969 00:48:55,602 --> 00:48:57,312 - Occasionally, yes. 970 00:48:57,354 --> 00:49:00,273 - He admitted that, oh, on occasion, yeah, 971 00:49:00,315 --> 00:49:03,026 they rip off houses together, and on occasion, yeah, 972 00:49:03,068 --> 00:49:05,737 they rip off motorbikes together, 973 00:49:05,779 --> 00:49:08,740 and on occasion, they do drugs 974 00:49:08,782 --> 00:49:12,327 and do cocaine and all kinds of things. 975 00:49:12,369 --> 00:49:18,291 And he admitted that he is just a criminal, 976 00:49:18,333 --> 00:49:24,130 I mean, an experienced criminal. 977 00:49:24,172 --> 00:49:25,733 (Rob) Pete was one of those kinds of people that 978 00:49:25,757 --> 00:49:27,777 if you pissed him off, you were gonna be in trouble. 979 00:49:27,801 --> 00:49:30,428 He beat his stepdad with a baseball bat 980 00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:32,972 when he was younger, but the state wouldn't 981 00:49:33,014 --> 00:49:34,683 allow that in as evidence 982 00:49:34,724 --> 00:49:37,227 because he was a juvenile at the time. 983 00:49:37,268 --> 00:49:38,454 - Were you looking for a revolver? 984 00:49:38,478 --> 00:49:39,896 Were you looking for a .45? 985 00:49:39,938 --> 00:49:41,064 What were you looking for? 986 00:49:41,106 --> 00:49:43,191 - Something, .45, 9 mm. 987 00:49:43,233 --> 00:49:45,235 - Why? - Has a clip. 988 00:49:45,276 --> 00:49:47,987 - Why? What's the difference to you? 989 00:49:48,029 --> 00:49:50,156 - To me? - Yeah. 990 00:49:50,198 --> 00:49:52,951 - Lighter gun, smaller gun usually. 991 00:49:52,992 --> 00:49:55,412 - How do you know all that stuff? 992 00:49:55,453 --> 00:49:57,831 - I've read magazines about guns. 993 00:49:57,872 --> 00:50:01,209 (Juror 13) He was a sicko. 994 00:50:01,251 --> 00:50:04,838 I mean, a sicko. 995 00:50:04,879 --> 00:50:08,675 After him came on the forensic fellow. 996 00:50:08,717 --> 00:50:11,886 Oh, he is an undisputed expert. 997 00:50:11,928 --> 00:50:14,222 So this guy definitely knows his business. 998 00:50:14,264 --> 00:50:16,599 And he testified... 999 00:50:16,641 --> 00:50:20,937 (lawyer) There was a single gunshot wound of entrance 1000 00:50:20,979 --> 00:50:22,939 high up on the left side of the head, 1001 00:50:22,981 --> 00:50:27,527 one inch to the left of the midline of the scalp, 1002 00:50:27,569 --> 00:50:32,407 and five inches above the ear canal. 1003 00:50:32,449 --> 00:50:36,745 The bullet passed downward and backward 1004 00:50:36,786 --> 00:50:42,500 from front to back at about a 45 degree angle. 1005 00:50:42,542 --> 00:50:45,253 (Juror 13) Pete said Pete was in front of Greggory Smart 1006 00:50:45,295 --> 00:50:49,382 and Bill, from behind, blew him away. 1007 00:50:49,424 --> 00:50:51,009 - Standing from behind, 1008 00:50:51,051 --> 00:50:54,721 I really... it would be extraordinarily difficult. 1009 00:50:54,763 --> 00:50:56,598 - Okay, would you agree with me, then, 1010 00:50:56,639 --> 00:50:59,267 that that trajectory in your findings there 1011 00:50:59,309 --> 00:51:01,144 are inconsistent with a person 1012 00:51:01,186 --> 00:51:03,521 shooting Gregg Smart from behind? 1013 00:51:03,563 --> 00:51:06,107 - Well, standing behind, I would think that... 1014 00:51:06,149 --> 00:51:07,335 (Juror 13) If you were standing behind me, 1015 00:51:07,359 --> 00:51:11,529 It couldn't be done. 1016 00:51:11,571 --> 00:51:15,742 - I think that they were in an agreement that Flynn 1017 00:51:15,784 --> 00:51:17,178 would take the blame for the killing 1018 00:51:17,202 --> 00:51:20,997 no matter what took place. 1019 00:51:21,039 --> 00:51:25,168 The way that I saw the case was having the lover of Pam Smart 1020 00:51:25,210 --> 00:51:28,880 actually do the job gave it more of an impact statement 1021 00:51:28,922 --> 00:51:30,423 than what I believed was true, 1022 00:51:30,465 --> 00:51:33,218 and that was that Pete did the job when 1023 00:51:33,259 --> 00:51:35,220 they got in the house, 1024 00:51:35,261 --> 00:51:37,430 when, probably, Flynn chickened out 1025 00:51:37,472 --> 00:51:39,974 and Pete executed him. 1026 00:51:40,016 --> 00:51:41,226 - Fucking now, asshole, do it. 1027 00:51:41,267 --> 00:51:45,105 (rising metal music) 1028 00:51:45,146 --> 00:51:46,773 (gunshot) 1029 00:51:46,815 --> 00:51:49,109 (Alec) The gorgeous woman who tempts us to evil 1030 00:51:49,150 --> 00:51:51,778 is Eve handing us an apple. 1031 00:51:51,820 --> 00:51:53,863 It's a great story. 1032 00:51:53,905 --> 00:51:59,577 (Richard) The founder of Court TV once said that trials 1033 00:51:59,619 --> 00:52:03,832 are the most dramatic narrative that we have 1034 00:52:03,873 --> 00:52:07,293 outside of violent combat. 1035 00:52:07,335 --> 00:52:10,463 The idea is multiple perspectives 1036 00:52:10,505 --> 00:52:13,633 will generate multiple stories. 1037 00:52:13,675 --> 00:52:17,887 And in the test that is the cauldron of 1038 00:52:17,929 --> 00:52:19,472 the adversarial process, 1039 00:52:19,514 --> 00:52:22,392 truth will be victorious. 1040 00:52:22,434 --> 00:52:26,813 But what happens when we're so taken with 1041 00:52:26,855 --> 00:52:31,484 the media's distillation of the story? 1042 00:52:31,526 --> 00:52:35,238 Is the adversarial system up to that task? 1043 00:52:38,867 --> 00:52:42,328 - I feel like there's never been an actual story that's been told 1044 00:52:42,370 --> 00:52:44,831 that gave it the time and attention 1045 00:52:44,873 --> 00:52:46,875 for it to be the truth. 1046 00:52:49,836 --> 00:52:51,713 I was never a teacher, 1047 00:52:51,755 --> 00:52:53,465 I was the director of media services 1048 00:52:53,506 --> 00:52:57,886 for eleven schools, one of which was the high school 1049 00:52:57,927 --> 00:53:01,181 which Bill Flynn and his friends attended. 1050 00:53:01,222 --> 00:53:06,936 And we got involved in making a commercial for a contest. 1051 00:53:06,978 --> 00:53:08,355 ♪♪ 1052 00:53:08,396 --> 00:53:09,898 - Man has enjoyed the taste 1053 00:53:09,939 --> 00:53:12,567 of pure and natural Florida orange juice. 1054 00:53:12,609 --> 00:53:14,194 We start each day with... 1055 00:53:14,235 --> 00:53:17,405 (Pamela) He had a crush on me, which I thought was cute, 1056 00:53:17,447 --> 00:53:19,199 but I really wasn't interested. 1057 00:53:19,240 --> 00:53:21,284 I was totally in love with my husband. 1058 00:53:21,326 --> 00:53:23,703 But near Christmas time, 1059 00:53:23,745 --> 00:53:26,873 my husband cheated on me, a one night stand. 1060 00:53:26,915 --> 00:53:29,584 And I was very sad. 1061 00:53:29,626 --> 00:53:32,212 And then when Bill Flynn came into my life, 1062 00:53:32,253 --> 00:53:34,381 he presented himself as someone 1063 00:53:34,422 --> 00:53:37,550 who was extremely kind and thoughtful. 1064 00:53:37,592 --> 00:53:41,554 And he made me feel good about myself. 1065 00:53:41,596 --> 00:53:43,890 I knew it was wrong. 1066 00:53:43,932 --> 00:53:46,685 Like in my head I was saying, no, this is wrong. 1067 00:53:46,726 --> 00:53:49,270 But inside my heart I liked him. 1068 00:53:49,312 --> 00:53:51,690 Never felt comfortable in it. 1069 00:53:51,731 --> 00:53:55,777 So after about eight weeks, I ended the relationship. 1070 00:53:55,819 --> 00:53:59,698 I certainly didn't think that he was going to go kill my husband. 1071 00:54:01,449 --> 00:54:03,660 Nobody really knew about the relationship. 1072 00:54:03,702 --> 00:54:05,412 I was embarrassed about it. 1073 00:54:05,453 --> 00:54:08,998 And the only other person that knew it was Cecelia Pierce. 1074 00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,043 (lawyer) Did you ever see any physical contact? 1075 00:54:12,085 --> 00:54:13,586 - Pam and Bill naked. 1076 00:54:13,628 --> 00:54:15,588 - And where were they? - On the floor. 1077 00:54:15,630 --> 00:54:18,675 - In what room? - In Gregg's bedroom. 1078 00:54:18,717 --> 00:54:21,970 - And what kind of position were they in? 1079 00:54:22,971 --> 00:54:26,766 - Pam was on top of Bill. 1080 00:54:26,808 --> 00:54:28,560 - Who was Hayley? - Pam's dog. 1081 00:54:28,601 --> 00:54:30,603 - Did she and Bill ever discuss Hayley? 1082 00:54:30,645 --> 00:54:32,623 - She told Bill not to kill Gregg in front of the dog 1083 00:54:32,647 --> 00:54:34,607 because it would traumatize the dog. 1084 00:54:34,649 --> 00:54:36,526 - Something like that, 1085 00:54:36,568 --> 00:54:38,194 these kids couldn't make that up. 1086 00:54:38,236 --> 00:54:39,904 I just didn't buy that. 1087 00:54:39,946 --> 00:54:43,116 - When did you start trying to get a gun for Bill Flynn 1088 00:54:43,158 --> 00:54:45,035 to kill Gregg Smart with? 1089 00:54:46,536 --> 00:54:49,289 - I don't know when the date was. 1090 00:54:49,330 --> 00:54:52,584 - You had this hear to heart truthful conversation with 1091 00:54:52,625 --> 00:54:55,837 the police on June 14, 1990. 1092 00:54:55,879 --> 00:54:57,422 Did you discuss with the police 1093 00:54:57,464 --> 00:54:58,649 that you were trying to get a firearm 1094 00:54:58,673 --> 00:55:01,384 to kill Gregg Smart? 1095 00:55:01,426 --> 00:55:04,012 - I don't remember. - You don't remember? 1096 00:55:04,054 --> 00:55:06,181 Very selective memory. Almost every question 1097 00:55:06,222 --> 00:55:10,185 the defense asked her, uh, she couldn't remember. 1098 00:55:10,226 --> 00:55:12,520 "Oh, I can't remember. I don't remember." 1099 00:55:12,562 --> 00:55:15,940 Cecelia Pierce helped Bill twice 1100 00:55:15,982 --> 00:55:19,819 trying to locate a gun to kill Greggory Smart. 1101 00:55:19,861 --> 00:55:23,490 Does not that make Celia Pierce 1102 00:55:23,531 --> 00:55:24,991 an accessory to first degree murder? 1103 00:55:25,033 --> 00:55:28,286 Doesn't it? Accessory? 1104 00:55:28,328 --> 00:55:30,080 (camera clicks) 1105 00:55:30,121 --> 00:55:31,849 (Mark) She was more important to the prosecution 1106 00:55:31,873 --> 00:55:35,085 in the toolbox than in the jailhouse. 1107 00:55:35,126 --> 00:55:37,379 Why was she saying the things she was saying? 1108 00:55:37,420 --> 00:55:39,005 Those motivations, quite frankly, 1109 00:55:39,047 --> 00:55:40,507 could be frightening. 1110 00:55:40,548 --> 00:55:44,010 (Tom) Well, Once Upon a Time Productions, as I have here, 1111 00:55:44,052 --> 00:55:47,722 is a life story option and purchase agreement. 1112 00:55:47,764 --> 00:55:49,891 Cecelia Pierce signed this contract 1113 00:55:49,933 --> 00:55:52,310 for a movie deal and sells her story. 1114 00:55:52,352 --> 00:55:55,522 This is dated September 14, 1990, 1115 00:55:55,563 --> 00:55:56,648 and again right here. 1116 00:55:56,690 --> 00:55:59,067 Purchase price of $100,000. 1117 00:55:59,109 --> 00:56:00,944 - I heard about the Pamela Smart story 1118 00:56:00,985 --> 00:56:02,963 the same way everybody else did, I saw it on television, 1119 00:56:02,987 --> 00:56:05,949 I saw it in the news, and it was one of those 1120 00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:07,590 stories that everybody was talking about. 1121 00:56:07,617 --> 00:56:10,453 (reporter) Tonight on "Hard Copy," 1122 00:56:10,495 --> 00:56:13,707 one girl's secret, 1123 00:56:13,748 --> 00:56:17,711 And also, Elvis fights back. 1124 00:56:17,752 --> 00:56:20,922 Cecelia Pierce was wired for murder. 1125 00:56:20,964 --> 00:56:22,858 (Cecelia) She said that she was in love with Bill 1126 00:56:22,882 --> 00:56:25,135 and she had a choice, she could either 1127 00:56:25,176 --> 00:56:27,595 divorce Gregg or kill him. 1128 00:56:27,637 --> 00:56:29,180 (Stan) She's so perfect. 1129 00:56:29,222 --> 00:56:31,641 If you were doing this movie now, you'd just cast her. 1130 00:56:31,683 --> 00:56:33,059 Tim Thompson, who worked for me, 1131 00:56:33,101 --> 00:56:34,728 took her out for ice cream in Derry, 1132 00:56:34,769 --> 00:56:37,147 Derry, New Hampshire, to get her rights. 1133 00:56:37,188 --> 00:56:39,733 So I remember making the joke, did you take her to Derry Queen? 1134 00:56:39,774 --> 00:56:41,943 And he thought that was stupid. 1135 00:56:41,985 --> 00:56:43,653 - But she said if she divorced him, 1136 00:56:43,695 --> 00:56:44,946 he would follow her around 1137 00:56:44,988 --> 00:56:46,865 and she'd never have another boyfriend. 1138 00:56:46,906 --> 00:56:49,117 And he would get the money, 1139 00:56:49,159 --> 00:56:50,910 the dog, the furniture and the house. 1140 00:56:50,952 --> 00:56:54,080 - It took some convincing to have Cecelia wear a wire. 1141 00:56:54,122 --> 00:56:57,250 I don't think she really wanted to believe Pam was guilty. 1142 00:56:57,292 --> 00:57:00,170 (man) At first, she didn't want to believe Pam's guilt. 1143 00:57:00,211 --> 00:57:03,757 And over the next year, she went on television again and again 1144 00:57:03,798 --> 00:57:07,052 and again and again proclaiming Pam's guilt. 1145 00:57:07,093 --> 00:57:09,429 - She picked Bill out of all those boys, 1146 00:57:09,471 --> 00:57:13,141 and he trusted her a lot. 1147 00:57:13,183 --> 00:57:14,517 (Ted) How does this happen? 1148 00:57:14,559 --> 00:57:16,895 If I were doing a reality TV show 1149 00:57:16,936 --> 00:57:19,856 and I wanted to turn a witness, 1150 00:57:19,898 --> 00:57:22,233 I would do something very similar. 1151 00:57:22,275 --> 00:57:24,778 I'd put the wire on them, I would put them 1152 00:57:24,819 --> 00:57:27,739 in the position of an investigator. 1153 00:57:27,781 --> 00:57:29,383 - She couldn't get a divorce because she wanted 1154 00:57:29,407 --> 00:57:30,867 the dog, the car... 1155 00:57:30,909 --> 00:57:34,204 The furniture, and the dog, and she'd have money. 1156 00:57:34,245 --> 00:57:35,806 (Stan) You know what's interesting, as these 1157 00:57:35,830 --> 00:57:38,958 interviews progressed, she gets better at this. 1158 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,794 (Ted) Pam got guiltier and guiltier. 1159 00:57:40,835 --> 00:57:44,130 You see that happen on every reality TV show. 1160 00:57:44,172 --> 00:57:47,467 The more provocative they get, the more their producer 1161 00:57:47,509 --> 00:57:49,135 tells them that they're fantastic. 1162 00:57:49,177 --> 00:57:52,305 And people would love to be fantastic. 1163 00:57:52,347 --> 00:57:54,974 - She'd be like, "Well, this is what happened today. 1164 00:57:55,016 --> 00:57:57,811 Bill and I were talking, and you can't find a silencer." 1165 00:57:57,852 --> 00:57:59,145 (Tom) Here you have a kid, 1166 00:57:59,187 --> 00:58:01,147 and all of a sudden you're part of this 1167 00:58:01,189 --> 00:58:03,942 One of the biggest things in television history, 1168 00:58:03,983 --> 00:58:07,487 the first televised trial of this sensational murder. 1169 00:58:07,529 --> 00:58:08,822 I think that she got caught up 1170 00:58:08,863 --> 00:58:11,741 in that whole scene of I'm important. 1171 00:58:11,783 --> 00:58:14,160 (Pelletier) She's turning into a little star. 1172 00:58:14,202 --> 00:58:18,665 She definitely liked the attention. 1173 00:58:18,707 --> 00:58:21,292 (Ted) There's a lot of people who want that. 1174 00:58:21,334 --> 00:58:24,337 They wish that their television show was on primetime. 1175 00:58:24,379 --> 00:58:29,009 We were seeing the petri dish for what's happened today. 1176 00:58:29,050 --> 00:58:31,052 TV has gone from being something 1177 00:58:31,094 --> 00:58:34,723 that you watch to being something that you're in. 1178 00:58:34,764 --> 00:58:37,809 The boys and Cecelia Pierce 1179 00:58:37,851 --> 00:58:40,979 were the first ones to get that injection. 1180 00:58:41,021 --> 00:58:43,648 (Mark) It was attention that that girl never would have 1181 00:58:43,690 --> 00:58:46,109 gotten in a million years. 1182 00:58:46,151 --> 00:58:48,820 You know, you would want the witnesses to be 1183 00:58:48,862 --> 00:58:50,363 the most important players, 1184 00:58:50,405 --> 00:58:52,198 but in this particular case, 1185 00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:56,202 they're not playing to the true audience, the jury. 1186 00:58:56,244 --> 00:58:59,456 They may be playing to mom and dad so that 1187 00:58:59,497 --> 00:59:02,792 when they go home at night and they're eating supper, 1188 00:59:02,834 --> 00:59:04,461 they can turn on Channel Nine news 1189 00:59:04,502 --> 00:59:07,047 and watch themself on television. 1190 00:59:13,053 --> 00:59:14,637 (Richard) If you shift the paradigm 1191 00:59:14,679 --> 00:59:19,351 for the trial to television, a lot of things are different. 1192 00:59:20,894 --> 00:59:25,899 Someone has to put all of that footage together. 1193 00:59:25,940 --> 00:59:30,320 Someone has to construct the visual narrative. 1194 00:59:30,362 --> 00:59:32,238 I call it the God moment. 1195 00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:37,035 (tapes whirring) 1196 00:59:37,077 --> 00:59:39,245 The moment when you intervene, 1197 00:59:39,287 --> 00:59:41,122 you make a cut. 1198 00:59:45,335 --> 00:59:46,920 You shift something. 1199 00:59:46,961 --> 00:59:49,673 - Why do you think he did it? - I-I just feel 1200 00:59:49,714 --> 00:59:51,633 that someone made him do it. 1201 00:59:51,675 --> 00:59:53,385 (Richard) And all of a sudden, 1202 00:59:53,426 --> 00:59:58,264 you've seriously altered the meaning of that image. 1203 00:59:58,306 --> 01:00:00,058 (Bill) She sat almost motionless 1204 01:00:00,100 --> 01:00:01,976 as the young man her defense attorneys 1205 01:00:02,018 --> 01:00:04,270 had portrayed as a love struck thrill killer 1206 01:00:04,312 --> 01:00:05,939 took the witness stand. 1207 01:00:05,980 --> 01:00:08,233 - I feel like I want to reach out and grab a hold of her 1208 01:00:08,274 --> 01:00:11,111 and just shake the living life right out of her. 1209 01:00:11,152 --> 01:00:14,447 - 17-year-old Sarah Thomas also testified that when she asked 1210 01:00:14,489 --> 01:00:17,659 Flynn if he was in love with Pamela Smart, he said, 1211 01:00:17,701 --> 01:00:20,995 "I don't know, but the sex is great." 1212 01:00:25,041 --> 01:00:27,168 (Pamela) "How did you ever end up here? 1213 01:00:27,210 --> 01:00:28,962 "Came directly at me like more of 1214 01:00:29,004 --> 01:00:30,964 "a declaration than a question. 1215 01:00:31,006 --> 01:00:33,633 "I will forever be haunted by the knowledge that had 1216 01:00:33,675 --> 01:00:35,802 "I never become involved with Bill, 1217 01:00:35,844 --> 01:00:38,221 "then Gregg would still be alive today. 1218 01:00:38,263 --> 01:00:39,848 "Even though I didn't pull the trigger, 1219 01:00:39,889 --> 01:00:43,727 my bad choices helped load the gun." 1220 01:00:43,768 --> 01:00:46,438 - How do people respond? 1221 01:00:46,479 --> 01:00:49,649 - You were so uncomfortable in exposing that piece. 1222 01:00:49,691 --> 01:00:51,443 You know, you said it. You showed it. 1223 01:00:51,484 --> 01:00:53,903 You put the book up, and I was wondering, 1224 01:00:53,945 --> 01:00:56,364 is it because you're afraid that we won't 1225 01:00:56,406 --> 01:00:57,615 see you for who you are, 1226 01:00:57,657 --> 01:00:59,159 that we'll be like everybody else? 1227 01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,619 Like the media has portrayed you, like you said, 1228 01:01:01,661 --> 01:01:04,289 this cold-hearted person. 1229 01:01:04,330 --> 01:01:06,332 - I guess it's just because everything I say gets 1230 01:01:06,374 --> 01:01:09,502 misinterpreted so much that tomorrow's headline 1231 01:01:09,544 --> 01:01:11,880 could be, "Pam Smart that she loaded the gun." 1232 01:01:11,921 --> 01:01:13,840 And like I said, I knew better. 1233 01:01:13,882 --> 01:01:15,550 I-I remember saying, this is wrong. 1234 01:01:15,592 --> 01:01:17,594 Why am I doing this, you know what I'm saying? 1235 01:01:17,635 --> 01:01:19,530 But it was like when you're still doing something 1236 01:01:19,554 --> 01:01:21,181 and you're saying this is wrong. 1237 01:01:21,222 --> 01:01:23,183 So I have to accept responsibility 1238 01:01:23,224 --> 01:01:26,644 for the fact that it wasn't like I was under some spell 1239 01:01:26,686 --> 01:01:29,272 where I didn't know that this was wrong, I knew it was wrong. 1240 01:01:29,314 --> 01:01:32,692 - Who is the real Pam? Who is the real Pam Smart? 1241 01:01:32,734 --> 01:01:34,027 - Well, I'm... I'm... 1242 01:01:34,069 --> 01:01:36,780 I'm the real... I'm Pam Smart. 1243 01:01:36,821 --> 01:01:38,948 (laughter) 1244 01:01:38,990 --> 01:01:41,868 (overlapping chatter) 1245 01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:43,790 I'm not walking around... I'm not walking around 1246 01:01:43,828 --> 01:01:46,039 with a mask on, this is who I really am. 1247 01:01:46,081 --> 01:01:49,376 - I've looked her up, I've been curious. 1248 01:01:49,417 --> 01:01:52,837 I've looked her up, she shows up with 1249 01:01:52,879 --> 01:01:56,466 sexy Hollywood stars and vixens. 1250 01:01:56,508 --> 01:01:58,051 This is not her. 1251 01:01:58,093 --> 01:02:00,970 (indistinct chatter) 1252 01:02:01,012 --> 01:02:03,056 - First, this is Van Halen Rocks. 1253 01:02:03,098 --> 01:02:05,517 We're gonna show our kids this, they're probably gonna go, 1254 01:02:05,558 --> 01:02:08,186 "You liked those long-haired hippie people?" 1255 01:02:08,228 --> 01:02:11,189 And we'll say, yes, son and daughter. 1256 01:02:11,231 --> 01:02:12,816 Or I was a metalist once. 1257 01:02:12,857 --> 01:02:14,651 (woman) Yes, my darling twin. 1258 01:02:14,693 --> 01:02:15,985 (indistinct chatter) 1259 01:02:16,027 --> 01:02:17,570 - That's the real Pam. 1260 01:02:17,612 --> 01:02:20,031 That is the real Pam that... 1261 01:02:20,073 --> 01:02:23,451 I hung out with all the time regularly. 1262 01:02:23,493 --> 01:02:25,620 - Let us please demonstrate what we're going to do 1263 01:02:25,662 --> 01:02:27,789 when Edward looks at the sign. 1264 01:02:27,831 --> 01:02:30,375 (all shrieking) 1265 01:02:30,417 --> 01:02:32,711 (Sonia) She's very warm and loving. 1266 01:02:32,752 --> 01:02:34,379 You know, she was kind of a geek, 1267 01:02:34,421 --> 01:02:37,048 and she was always very good in school. 1268 01:02:37,090 --> 01:02:39,050 (Eleanor) I was at Bedford Hills' inmate 1269 01:02:39,092 --> 01:02:41,302 education program, and I assisted Pam 1270 01:02:41,344 --> 01:02:44,014 in achieving two masters degrees. 1271 01:02:44,055 --> 01:02:46,016 One in criminal law, 1272 01:02:46,057 --> 01:02:48,143 and the other in English literature. 1273 01:02:49,394 --> 01:02:52,939 The superintendent had become extremely hostile, 1274 01:02:52,981 --> 01:02:54,441 consistent with the negativity 1275 01:02:54,482 --> 01:02:56,943 that always swirled around Pam. 1276 01:02:56,985 --> 01:02:59,195 And they took away from me 1277 01:02:59,237 --> 01:03:02,657 my books, and my pencils and my pens. 1278 01:03:02,699 --> 01:03:04,367 So we talked, 1279 01:03:04,409 --> 01:03:06,870 and that was how I taught her. 1280 01:03:06,911 --> 01:03:08,371 And she had to absorb everything 1281 01:03:08,413 --> 01:03:10,915 I told her without the books. 1282 01:03:10,957 --> 01:03:16,463 She's the smartest student I've ever had in my 34-year career 1283 01:03:16,504 --> 01:03:19,716 as a professor. 1284 01:03:19,758 --> 01:03:22,969 (Pamela) I felt really stupid in the face of this 1285 01:03:23,011 --> 01:03:25,764 enormous system that had taken my life. 1286 01:03:25,805 --> 01:03:30,185 And I decided that I couldn't really fight back 1287 01:03:30,226 --> 01:03:31,895 without the proper tools. 1288 01:03:31,936 --> 01:03:34,856 I wanted to understand more about what happened to me 1289 01:03:34,898 --> 01:03:38,026 and what I could do to try to get out of here. 1290 01:03:38,068 --> 01:03:41,154 I was fighting for my life. 1291 01:03:41,196 --> 01:03:45,367 - On the outside, everybody always... they think that 1292 01:03:45,408 --> 01:03:48,036 everybody in prison says they didn't do it. 1293 01:03:48,078 --> 01:03:49,329 "Sure, everybody's innocent, 1294 01:03:49,371 --> 01:03:51,247 they didn't do it, they didn't do it." 1295 01:03:51,289 --> 01:03:54,209 And that's not the case at all. 1296 01:03:54,250 --> 01:03:57,253 With the exception of three women... 1297 01:03:57,295 --> 01:03:59,839 that's out and thousands and thousands 1298 01:03:59,881 --> 01:04:01,883 out of the eight years that I served, 1299 01:04:01,925 --> 01:04:06,054 I've only heard three women say that they didn't do it. 1300 01:04:06,096 --> 01:04:09,349 So far, two out of three of those women 1301 01:04:09,391 --> 01:04:13,228 have been proven innocent and released. 1302 01:04:13,269 --> 01:04:15,980 The third and last one is Pamela Smart. 1303 01:04:16,022 --> 01:04:18,775 (indistinct chatter) 1304 01:04:18,817 --> 01:04:20,419 - Do you swear the testimony you're about to give today 1305 01:04:20,443 --> 01:04:22,112 is the truth, the whole truth, 1306 01:04:22,153 --> 01:04:23,673 and nothing but the truth so help you God? 1307 01:04:23,697 --> 01:04:24,989 - I do. 1308 01:04:25,031 --> 01:04:26,574 (reporter) Next witness was Pam Smart. 1309 01:04:26,616 --> 01:04:29,536 She's testifying as to her side of the story. 1310 01:04:29,577 --> 01:04:32,622 (lawyer) You said when you heard Bill Flynn was arrested, 1311 01:04:32,664 --> 01:04:35,208 "Oh, my God, they heard about the affair, 1312 01:04:35,250 --> 01:04:37,043 they arrested the wrong person." 1313 01:04:37,085 --> 01:04:38,354 Of course, you went right to the police 1314 01:04:38,378 --> 01:04:39,879 to straighten that out, didn't you? 1315 01:04:39,921 --> 01:04:42,382 - No, because I thought if the police knew that I had 1316 01:04:42,424 --> 01:04:44,193 an affair with Bill then they would automatically 1317 01:04:44,217 --> 01:04:45,778 conclude that I was involved in the murder. 1318 01:04:45,802 --> 01:04:48,138 - You did everything you could cover up your relationship 1319 01:04:48,179 --> 01:04:49,556 with Bill Flynn. - Yes, I did. 1320 01:04:49,597 --> 01:04:52,892 - And not only if you told the police about 1321 01:04:52,934 --> 01:04:54,519 Bill Flynn and your relationship, 1322 01:04:54,561 --> 01:04:56,396 that would give Bill Flynn a connection 1323 01:04:56,438 --> 01:04:58,082 and a reason for killing your husband, right? 1324 01:04:58,106 --> 01:04:59,607 - Right. - And it'd also 1325 01:04:59,649 --> 01:05:02,402 give you a connection to the murder of your husband 1326 01:05:02,444 --> 01:05:05,155 and to Bill Flynn if you told them about be fair, right? 1327 01:05:05,196 --> 01:05:06,906 - Yes. - And that's the real reason 1328 01:05:06,948 --> 01:05:09,826 you didn't want to talk to the police about Bill Flynn 1329 01:05:09,868 --> 01:05:11,578 and the affair with you? 1330 01:05:11,619 --> 01:05:13,997 - The real reason is the truth, which I just told you. 1331 01:05:14,039 --> 01:05:16,058 - The jury will determine what's the truth, won't they? 1332 01:05:16,082 --> 01:05:17,852 - They certainly will, I hope... - Are you afraid 1333 01:05:17,876 --> 01:05:20,378 that they're going to decide it for themselves? 1334 01:05:20,420 --> 01:05:22,881 - I think the jury is going to believe what the truth is. 1335 01:05:22,922 --> 01:05:24,966 - Okay. - I believe in the jury system. 1336 01:05:25,008 --> 01:05:27,344 (Juror 13) She was very believable. 1337 01:05:27,385 --> 01:05:29,637 I know I didn't believe any of the boys 1338 01:05:29,679 --> 01:05:34,601 because they're criminals and their story's discredited 1339 01:05:34,642 --> 01:05:37,103 and they've had time and opportunity 1340 01:05:37,145 --> 01:05:38,980 and motive to build a story. 1341 01:05:39,022 --> 01:05:41,274 And I didn't believe Celia. 1342 01:05:41,316 --> 01:05:43,568 I think she was trying to protect her ass because 1343 01:05:43,610 --> 01:05:46,863 she was definitely involved as an accomplice. 1344 01:05:46,905 --> 01:05:53,536 If the police suspected me, then I would protect, 1345 01:05:53,578 --> 01:05:56,623 like her, the fact that I had 1346 01:05:56,664 --> 01:05:59,084 an affair with the kid who killed my husband. 1347 01:05:59,125 --> 01:06:00,669 Actually, those three tapes 1348 01:06:00,710 --> 01:06:02,671 are the only evidence the state has against her. 1349 01:06:05,006 --> 01:06:06,817 - Your Honor, I would suggest at this time that everyone 1350 01:06:06,841 --> 01:06:09,427 place on their earphones and make sure they are on. 1351 01:06:09,469 --> 01:06:12,972 (reporter) Secretly obtained taped conversations 1352 01:06:13,014 --> 01:06:15,183 between Pamela Smart and Cecelia Pierce 1353 01:06:15,225 --> 01:06:17,143 are about to be played. 1354 01:06:17,185 --> 01:06:20,188 (dialing) 1355 01:06:20,230 --> 01:06:21,690 (dial tone) 1356 01:06:21,731 --> 01:06:23,775 (Pamela) Good afternoon, media center. 1357 01:06:23,817 --> 01:06:26,111 - (indistinct) - Uh, who's calling? 1358 01:06:26,152 --> 01:06:28,905 - It's Cecelia. - Okay, uh, yeah. 1359 01:06:28,947 --> 01:06:30,615 - The tapes clearly show 1360 01:06:30,657 --> 01:06:33,535 she had planned the murder, she knew what was going on. 1361 01:07:23,043 --> 01:07:24,544 (Alec) Damning. Absolutely damning. 1362 01:07:24,586 --> 01:07:27,297 You know, you stop the tape at that point 1363 01:07:27,339 --> 01:07:29,883 and look around the room and say, "Can somebody 1364 01:07:29,924 --> 01:07:31,718 "find an alternate explanation 1365 01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:33,887 of what she would have meant by that?" 1366 01:07:33,928 --> 01:07:37,932 - Tell us about what leads to the conversations 1367 01:07:37,974 --> 01:07:39,642 on the first tape, what's going on. 1368 01:07:39,684 --> 01:07:42,645 - I mean, after the arrest of the kids, Cecelia was 1369 01:07:42,687 --> 01:07:45,440 calling me on the phone, and she was very nervous 1370 01:07:45,482 --> 01:07:48,360 and worried, and she had asked me 1371 01:07:48,401 --> 01:07:50,362 did I know about the murder beforehand. 1372 01:07:50,403 --> 01:07:53,073 And initially I had said no. 1373 01:07:53,114 --> 01:07:59,079 And then she made a statement to me that if I knew more about it, 1374 01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,623 that as long as I told her that, 1375 01:08:01,664 --> 01:08:05,335 she wouldn't tell anyone and that we had to stick together. 1376 01:08:05,377 --> 01:08:08,004 - So what did you do? - I figured that 1377 01:08:08,046 --> 01:08:10,423 if she knew more about the murder 1378 01:08:10,465 --> 01:08:14,511 then she would tell me if I acted like I knew more about it. 1379 01:08:18,181 --> 01:08:20,183 (Pamela) I really thought, I really thought 1380 01:08:20,225 --> 01:08:21,601 that they had the wrong person, 1381 01:08:21,643 --> 01:08:23,162 that they found out about this relationship 1382 01:08:23,186 --> 01:08:26,314 and they'd jumped to this conclusion because there was 1383 01:08:26,356 --> 01:08:27,899 no evidence, so to speak, 1384 01:08:27,941 --> 01:08:31,403 that was coming out through... a police telling me. 1385 01:08:32,821 --> 01:08:36,116 My main thing at that time was trying to figure out 1386 01:08:36,157 --> 01:08:37,951 did he really do this? 1387 01:08:37,992 --> 01:08:41,788 Because I guess in my heart, I wanted it so not to be true. 1388 01:08:41,830 --> 01:08:44,457 I wanted anybody, anywhere to give me any information 1389 01:08:44,499 --> 01:08:47,002 that I could to help get the answer to this one question 1390 01:08:47,043 --> 01:08:49,421 of did he really do this? 1391 01:08:49,462 --> 01:08:51,631 I told Gregg's best friend, actually. 1392 01:08:51,673 --> 01:08:55,969 - What she said to me was, "I wonder if I act like 1393 01:08:56,011 --> 01:08:59,305 I know something about this if they'll say something to me." 1394 01:08:59,347 --> 01:09:01,391 - What di... did you respond to that? 1395 01:09:01,433 --> 01:09:02,976 - Yeah. - What did you tell her? 1396 01:09:03,018 --> 01:09:07,439 - I told her not to be an idiot, but I used a different word. 1397 01:09:07,480 --> 01:09:10,316 - "Don't be an asshole." 1398 01:09:10,358 --> 01:09:13,153 - I will never forget the tapes for the rest of my life. 1399 01:09:13,194 --> 01:09:14,738 (chuckling) 1400 01:09:14,779 --> 01:09:18,491 I usually have an Anglo-Saxon word 1401 01:09:18,533 --> 01:09:20,785 I put between thought and tapes, but, um... 1402 01:09:20,827 --> 01:09:26,499 - I called my lawyer and he said, "Whatever you do, 1403 01:09:26,541 --> 01:09:30,128 don't talk to Cecelia Pierce, she's going to be wired." 1404 01:09:30,170 --> 01:09:31,504 And I said, okay. 1405 01:09:31,546 --> 01:09:34,382 And I hung up the phone and I called her. 1406 01:09:34,424 --> 01:09:37,635 That's the truth. Exactly what happened. 1407 01:09:38,803 --> 01:09:39,971 I was not sleeping, 1408 01:09:40,013 --> 01:09:42,891 I was over exhausted mentally and physically. 1409 01:09:42,932 --> 01:09:48,730 A psychiatrist put me on Prozac, and he put me on a lot of it. 1410 01:09:48,772 --> 01:09:50,982 I was both going through depressive states 1411 01:09:51,024 --> 01:09:53,860 and I was also going through like manic states. 1412 01:09:53,902 --> 01:09:56,071 I just didn't care. I just wanted to know 1413 01:09:56,112 --> 01:10:00,033 so bad that I didn't care. 1414 01:10:00,075 --> 01:10:03,453 And then Cecelia Pierce would be spilling out pieces of 1415 01:10:03,495 --> 01:10:05,415 information here and there and saying, "Oh, well, 1416 01:10:05,455 --> 01:10:07,123 I heard this or I heard that." 1417 01:10:07,165 --> 01:10:11,378 So I felt like I had to get information out of her. 1418 01:10:26,476 --> 01:10:28,436 Yeah, that I definitely said 1419 01:10:28,478 --> 01:10:30,939 because I was talking to her about the affair. 1420 01:10:30,980 --> 01:10:35,151 And next thing you know it's on a big poster board saying, 1421 01:10:35,193 --> 01:10:38,321 "Oh, I was... she was talking about the murder here." 1422 01:10:38,363 --> 01:10:40,907 And I'm like, no, I wasn't, because there were pieces that 1423 01:10:40,949 --> 01:10:44,077 were before that or after that that are gone. 1424 01:10:44,119 --> 01:10:47,664 And conveniently, and there's this whole section 1425 01:10:47,706 --> 01:10:49,249 on the transcripts and it'll say, 1426 01:10:49,290 --> 01:10:50,917 "Inaudible, inaudible, 1427 01:10:50,959 --> 01:10:53,586 inaudible," and then here comes this line 1428 01:10:53,628 --> 01:10:55,422 out of nowhere or something, and it's like, 1429 01:10:55,463 --> 01:10:56,756 wait a minute, 1430 01:10:56,798 --> 01:10:59,009 what was all the inaudible stuff? 1431 01:11:01,428 --> 01:11:03,114 (reporter) Last I heard, Spencer does not have 1432 01:11:03,138 --> 01:11:05,098 the transcripts yet, they are not out yet... 1433 01:11:05,140 --> 01:11:06,641 repeat, not out yet. 1434 01:11:10,478 --> 01:11:12,480 (Bill) The quality was just so bad, 1435 01:11:12,522 --> 01:11:15,650 you don't want to hear words... every other, 1436 01:11:15,692 --> 01:11:18,278 or every fifth word you could hear, 1437 01:11:18,319 --> 01:11:19,779 the rest of it's garbled so much, 1438 01:11:19,821 --> 01:11:22,782 you can't really tell what she's... what she's saying. 1439 01:11:22,824 --> 01:11:26,995 - If you're going to consider listening to a conversation 1440 01:11:27,037 --> 01:11:30,957 and all you are able to hear are bits and pieces 1441 01:11:30,999 --> 01:11:34,627 without knowing what else has been said before, 1442 01:11:34,669 --> 01:11:36,296 in the middle, or after, 1443 01:11:36,338 --> 01:11:41,343 what you hear is not necessarily a reflection of the truth. 1444 01:11:41,384 --> 01:11:42,677 It's simply a reflection of 1445 01:11:42,719 --> 01:11:45,764 the little bits and pieces that you heard. 1446 01:11:45,805 --> 01:11:48,016 (Paul M.) These were told to me at the time 1447 01:11:48,058 --> 01:11:50,143 to be a very significant piece of evidence. 1448 01:11:50,185 --> 01:11:52,312 And when we first... when I first listened to them 1449 01:11:52,354 --> 01:11:54,147 in a car ride with my co counsel, 1450 01:11:54,189 --> 01:11:56,566 I was extremely depressed because you couldn't make out 1451 01:11:56,608 --> 01:11:58,735 heads nor tails of what was being said. 1452 01:11:58,777 --> 01:12:01,988 And I really thought they were gonna be useless until 1453 01:12:02,030 --> 01:12:05,075 we hired an enhancer, an expert out of Connecticut 1454 01:12:05,116 --> 01:12:07,786 who actually took the tapes, got rid of the background noise, 1455 01:12:07,827 --> 01:12:10,789 enhanced the sound, where you then could actually 1456 01:12:10,830 --> 01:12:13,667 sit down and hear what Pam Smart was saying 1457 01:12:13,708 --> 01:12:15,669 and what Cecelia Pierce was saying. 1458 01:12:15,710 --> 01:12:19,214 But that was very painstaking because you had to listen 1459 01:12:19,255 --> 01:12:22,384 to each word four and five times 1460 01:12:22,425 --> 01:12:24,052 before we can get an accurate transcript. 1461 01:12:26,262 --> 01:12:28,973 The person who prepared the transcript, by the way, 1462 01:12:29,015 --> 01:12:31,851 there's qualifications to do so, I don't know. 1463 01:12:31,893 --> 01:12:34,771 In most cases, you would want a qualified audiologist 1464 01:12:34,813 --> 01:12:38,775 to do this, but... but this stenographer 1465 01:12:38,817 --> 01:12:41,986 tried to figure out what was said. 1466 01:12:42,028 --> 01:12:46,408 (distorted audio) 1467 01:12:48,576 --> 01:12:51,788 (distorted audio continues) 1468 01:12:57,043 --> 01:12:59,063 (lawyer) "Did you see, now seeing what had happened, 1469 01:12:59,087 --> 01:13:01,631 "wouldn't you have rather have just divorced Gregg? 1470 01:13:01,673 --> 01:13:03,633 "Well, I don't know, you know, 1471 01:13:03,675 --> 01:13:07,303 nothing was going wrong until after they told Ralph." 1472 01:13:07,345 --> 01:13:11,725 (Robert J.) Those transcripts become taken as gospel 1473 01:13:11,766 --> 01:13:14,602 and then treated as if they were the tapes. 1474 01:13:14,644 --> 01:13:16,146 - "Remember that time you let Phil 1475 01:13:16,187 --> 01:13:17,331 use your car to go up there?" 1476 01:13:17,355 --> 01:13:18,416 "Where?" "Up to you house?" 1477 01:13:18,440 --> 01:13:19,816 "Yeah." "Well, that time," 1478 01:13:19,858 --> 01:13:21,127 "if he hadn't forgotten directions, 1479 01:13:21,151 --> 01:13:22,569 he could have killed Gregg then..." 1480 01:13:22,610 --> 01:13:24,070 "I know." 1481 01:13:24,112 --> 01:13:26,197 (Pamela) "Pam said this then Cecelia said this," 1482 01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:28,033 then Pam said this, then Cecel..." 1483 01:13:28,074 --> 01:13:29,909 Like, that's how it looks on paper. 1484 01:13:29,951 --> 01:13:32,787 When someone is talking, the other person is saying, 1485 01:13:32,829 --> 01:13:35,874 "Okay, yeah, mm-hmm, whate..." you know? 1486 01:13:35,915 --> 01:13:38,835 But on paper, it looks like she makes a statement, 1487 01:13:38,877 --> 01:13:40,754 and I say, oh, yes! 1488 01:13:40,795 --> 01:13:42,964 - What does Cecelia Pierce say? 1489 01:13:43,006 --> 01:13:45,800 "If Raymond hadn't run his friggin' mouth off, 1490 01:13:45,842 --> 01:13:47,802 this would have been the perfect murder." 1491 01:13:47,844 --> 01:13:50,805 What does the defendant say? "Right." 1492 01:13:50,847 --> 01:13:55,518 She says, "He's going to say he knew about it beforehand, 1493 01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:57,812 which is the truth." "Right..." 1494 01:13:57,854 --> 01:13:59,790 (Robert J.) And look, let's not lose sight of the fact 1495 01:13:59,814 --> 01:14:05,612 that none of those issues of the enhancement were 1496 01:14:05,653 --> 01:14:07,697 the subject of expert testimony 1497 01:14:07,739 --> 01:14:10,116 on behalf of the defense at the trial. 1498 01:14:10,158 --> 01:14:12,202 (Pamela) At the time, my attorneys told me, 1499 01:14:12,243 --> 01:14:15,163 "Well, if you want to get a tape expert, that's gonna 1500 01:14:15,205 --> 01:14:16,956 cost like, $15,000." 1501 01:14:16,998 --> 01:14:20,752 And I was struggling to pay them as it was. 1502 01:14:20,794 --> 01:14:23,129 This wasn't an instance where I was some kind of 1503 01:14:23,171 --> 01:14:27,926 celebrity client that could have a dream team assembled 1504 01:14:27,967 --> 01:14:32,055 to help me point out everything about the evidence. 1505 01:14:32,097 --> 01:14:34,808 And I couldn't afford it, I could not afford it, 1506 01:14:34,849 --> 01:14:36,810 it like many people can't when they're up against 1507 01:14:36,851 --> 01:14:38,144 the criminal justice system, 1508 01:14:38,186 --> 01:14:40,897 and I wasn't able to get a tape expert. 1509 01:14:43,274 --> 01:14:48,071 (Juror 13) The tapes, they're contradicting. 1510 01:14:48,113 --> 01:14:52,534 It sounded, you know, incriminating. 1511 01:14:52,575 --> 01:14:54,703 But if you believe her story, 1512 01:14:54,744 --> 01:14:56,371 that would explain the tapes. 1513 01:14:56,413 --> 01:15:00,792 I'm not saying I believe it, but it's a possibility. 1514 01:15:00,834 --> 01:15:02,520 Now, Pam doesn't have to prove she's innocent. 1515 01:15:02,544 --> 01:15:04,212 The state has to prove she's guilty 1516 01:15:04,254 --> 01:15:08,049 beyond a reasonable doubt, and that creates a big doubt 1517 01:15:08,091 --> 01:15:11,469 on the one piece of evidence that will get her. 1518 01:15:11,511 --> 01:15:13,471 (sighs) 1519 01:15:13,513 --> 01:15:16,391 Somewhere lies the truth, 1520 01:15:16,433 --> 01:15:18,601 and we're never gonna know, really, what it is. 1521 01:15:18,643 --> 01:15:20,687 (sighs) 1522 01:15:20,729 --> 01:15:23,148 Tough call. 1523 01:15:25,150 --> 01:15:27,027 You are innocent 1524 01:15:27,068 --> 01:15:31,906 until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. 1525 01:15:33,241 --> 01:15:34,284 (bailiff) All rise. 1526 01:15:37,620 --> 01:15:39,956 (reporter) As of 2:32 on the afternoon of 1527 01:15:39,998 --> 01:15:43,460 March 20, 1991, the fate of Pamela Smart 1528 01:15:43,501 --> 01:15:45,378 rests in the hands of the jury. 1529 01:15:45,420 --> 01:15:48,506 (Bill) Normally it would just be 12 jurors judging, 1530 01:15:48,548 --> 01:15:50,884 now it's all of New England. 1531 01:15:50,925 --> 01:15:53,029 Everyday people are making up their minds who's guilty, 1532 01:15:53,053 --> 01:15:55,472 who's innocent, and they're focusing in on 1533 01:15:55,513 --> 01:15:56,973 the key characters, 1534 01:15:57,015 --> 01:15:59,059 who they like, who they don't like. 1535 01:15:59,100 --> 01:16:00,745 (Judy Smart) I think she's a very cold person 1536 01:16:00,769 --> 01:16:04,147 and I thinks she's guilty and I'll get out. 1537 01:16:04,189 --> 01:16:06,983 - For weeks, the jurors had gone home 1538 01:16:07,025 --> 01:16:08,860 every night after testimony. 1539 01:16:08,902 --> 01:16:12,405 - Did they go home and watch coverage after the fact 1540 01:16:12,447 --> 01:16:13,698 on the evening news? 1541 01:16:13,740 --> 01:16:15,033 Maybe. Who knows? 1542 01:16:15,075 --> 01:16:16,594 Did they read something in the newspaper? 1543 01:16:16,618 --> 01:16:18,244 Maybe. Who knows? 1544 01:16:18,286 --> 01:16:21,206 - The jury should only hear evidence that's admissible. 1545 01:16:21,247 --> 01:16:24,042 It shouldn't be watching videotape 1546 01:16:24,084 --> 01:16:27,754 of the victim's parents praying at the grave of the victim. 1547 01:16:27,796 --> 01:16:29,297 (Bill Smart) We visited the grave 1548 01:16:29,339 --> 01:16:31,925 this morning and spent ten minutes crying 1549 01:16:31,966 --> 01:16:34,010 before we came here. - And praying. 1550 01:16:34,052 --> 01:16:36,304 - And praying to God that justice is served. 1551 01:16:36,346 --> 01:16:39,808 - And it shouldn't know what the people out there think 1552 01:16:39,849 --> 01:16:40,975 the result is going to be. 1553 01:16:41,017 --> 01:16:42,811 - She was too much of an ice woman. 1554 01:16:42,852 --> 01:16:44,813 - Had no emotion. For no emotion, 1555 01:16:44,854 --> 01:16:46,815 you have to be guilty of something like that. 1556 01:16:46,856 --> 01:16:50,402 (Robert J.) The headlines on TV, on radio 1557 01:16:50,443 --> 01:16:53,655 all predicted that Pam would be found guilty 1558 01:16:53,697 --> 01:16:55,615 of the crimes of which she was charged. 1559 01:16:55,657 --> 01:16:59,119 - Most of what was in the press, and most of what was on the TV 1560 01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:00,537 are just replays of what happened 1561 01:17:00,578 --> 01:17:01,597 during the day in the courtroom. 1562 01:17:01,621 --> 01:17:03,957 So there was no polls going on. 1563 01:17:03,998 --> 01:17:06,292 "We think she's guilty, we think she's not guilty." 1564 01:17:06,334 --> 01:17:08,094 Call in, how many people think she's guilty?" 1565 01:17:08,128 --> 01:17:10,839 I mean, there wasn't none of that. 1566 01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:12,483 (automated voice) Do you believe Pamela Smart 1567 01:17:12,507 --> 01:17:14,634 was involved in the plot to kill her husband? 1568 01:17:14,676 --> 01:17:17,178 For yes, press 1. 1569 01:17:24,519 --> 01:17:26,079 (Alan) Juries shouldn't go into that box 1570 01:17:26,104 --> 01:17:29,941 wondering how and whether they'll be made to look like 1571 01:17:29,983 --> 01:17:31,860 fools if they come to one result 1572 01:17:31,901 --> 01:17:34,320 rather than the other, whether they'll be able to speak 1573 01:17:34,362 --> 01:17:36,007 and hold their heads up in their community. 1574 01:17:36,031 --> 01:17:37,383 They ought to be making an independent judgment, 1575 01:17:37,407 --> 01:17:39,451 not reflecting what the rest of us think. 1576 01:17:44,497 --> 01:17:50,420 - In any notorious case, when the very fact of the charge 1577 01:17:50,462 --> 01:17:52,756 implicates some profound taboo, 1578 01:17:52,797 --> 01:17:56,343 the usual burden of proof, 1579 01:17:56,384 --> 01:18:00,347 my client is presumed innocent, is off the table. 1580 01:18:00,388 --> 01:18:06,978 The Pamela Smart case clearly is evoking 1581 01:18:07,020 --> 01:18:10,732 a degree of taboo, 1582 01:18:10,774 --> 01:18:14,319 titillation, the abuse of power. 1583 01:18:14,361 --> 01:18:17,364 You can arouse that titillation and come out with 1584 01:18:17,405 --> 01:18:22,535 completely clean conscience if you can condemn the source 1585 01:18:22,577 --> 01:18:25,038 under the rule of law. 1586 01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:28,291 (Stan) Part of a good story is a good ending. 1587 01:18:28,333 --> 01:18:30,919 And we think she did it, and we like that she did it, 1588 01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:32,104 and we like that she got caught. 1589 01:18:32,128 --> 01:18:34,297 (juror) Guilty, Your Honor. 1590 01:18:34,339 --> 01:18:36,257 (courtroom cheering) 1591 01:18:36,299 --> 01:18:39,594 (Ted) Kill the bitch, lock the door, 1592 01:18:39,636 --> 01:18:41,888 throw away the key. 1593 01:18:41,930 --> 01:18:43,890 I feel good, I feel good. 1594 01:18:43,932 --> 01:18:46,393 Justice was done. 1595 01:18:46,434 --> 01:18:48,353 - She pays for our sins. 1596 01:18:48,395 --> 01:18:53,400 ♪♪ 1597 01:19:01,408 --> 01:19:02,867 (reporter) A verdict has been reached 1598 01:19:02,909 --> 01:19:04,536 in the Pamela Smart trial here in Exeter. 1599 01:19:04,577 --> 01:19:06,830 We have carried live coverage throughout this trial 1600 01:19:06,871 --> 01:19:08,557 and I think we can say we were the first to tell you 1601 01:19:08,581 --> 01:19:11,292 that the verdict was reached at about quarter of 1:00. 1602 01:19:11,334 --> 01:19:13,437 The green light went off, the bailiff went running in. 1603 01:19:13,461 --> 01:19:15,630 The parties were rounded up. Barry Peacock, 1604 01:19:15,672 --> 01:19:17,841 the head bailiff came out to bring that verdict... 1605 01:19:17,882 --> 01:19:19,592 (indistinct chatter) 1606 01:19:19,634 --> 01:19:20,844 Now we're gonna go upstairs, 1607 01:19:20,885 --> 01:19:22,470 we have a courtroom shot, I believe. 1608 01:19:22,512 --> 01:19:24,389 We are waiting to bring you the verdict live. 1609 01:19:24,431 --> 01:19:26,111 (female reporter) The jury is entering now. 1610 01:19:26,141 --> 01:19:28,435 We've just seen the defendant and her lawyer stand, 1611 01:19:28,476 --> 01:19:31,771 so we know the jury is now returning to the jury box. 1612 01:19:31,813 --> 01:19:33,940 As soon as they are in their places, 1613 01:19:33,982 --> 01:19:36,109 we know we'll see the entire courtroom rise. 1614 01:19:36,151 --> 01:19:40,447 We just heard Judge Grey is entering. 1615 01:19:40,488 --> 01:19:45,452 He will be asking for the jury verdict on the charges. 1616 01:19:45,493 --> 01:19:48,830 - Will the defendant please rise and face the jury? 1617 01:19:50,165 --> 01:19:52,792 Madam forelady, would you please stand? 1618 01:19:52,834 --> 01:19:54,461 Has the jury reached a verdict 1619 01:19:54,502 --> 01:19:56,087 on each of the three offenses charged? 1620 01:19:56,129 --> 01:19:59,424 - Yes, we have - On case number 90S1371, 1621 01:19:59,466 --> 01:20:01,134 which charges a defendant with a crime of 1622 01:20:01,176 --> 01:20:02,844 accomplice to first degree murder, 1623 01:20:02,886 --> 01:20:04,846 how say you, the defendant guilty 1624 01:20:04,888 --> 01:20:06,473 or not guilty of the offense charged? 1625 01:20:06,514 --> 01:20:10,769 - Guilty. - (Courtroom exclaims) 1626 01:20:10,810 --> 01:20:12,395 - Pamela Smart, 1627 01:20:12,437 --> 01:20:17,400 on indictment 1371, charging you with the offense 1628 01:20:17,442 --> 01:20:19,736 of accomplice to first degree murder 1629 01:20:19,778 --> 01:20:21,363 on the jury's verdict of guilty 1630 01:20:21,404 --> 01:20:23,073 and in accordance with the mandates of 1631 01:20:23,114 --> 01:20:26,242 our state legislature, I am required and do hereby 1632 01:20:26,284 --> 01:20:27,678 sentence you to the New Hampshire State Prison 1633 01:20:27,702 --> 01:20:30,205 for women for the remainder of your life 1634 01:20:30,246 --> 01:20:32,624 without the possibility of parole. 1635 01:20:38,755 --> 01:20:40,799 ♪♪ 1636 01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:44,094 (Pamela) I don't need the world to tell me that if I never 1637 01:20:44,135 --> 01:20:46,012 had a relationship with Bill, 1638 01:20:46,054 --> 01:20:48,848 Gregg would probably still be alive. 1639 01:20:48,890 --> 01:20:51,267 I know that myself. 1640 01:20:51,309 --> 01:20:53,228 Whoever thinks that I don't know that 1641 01:20:53,269 --> 01:20:57,232 every day of my life is so wrong. 1642 01:20:57,273 --> 01:20:59,067 They're so wrong. 1643 01:21:04,531 --> 01:21:06,366 I think a lot about what my life would be like 1644 01:21:06,408 --> 01:21:09,119 if this had never happened. 1645 01:21:10,745 --> 01:21:13,081 Would I have children right now? 1646 01:21:13,123 --> 01:21:15,333 What would our life be like? 1647 01:21:18,753 --> 01:21:22,674 (Alec) The great injustice to me is that she's in jail forever 1648 01:21:22,716 --> 01:21:25,260 and the kids who actually perpetrated the crime 1649 01:21:25,301 --> 01:21:27,220 will get out of jail. 1650 01:21:27,262 --> 01:21:30,348 By sort of any measure, that's not fair. 1651 01:21:30,390 --> 01:21:33,393 But that's, again, the way the system works. 1652 01:21:33,435 --> 01:21:36,980 So the system did what the system does. 1653 01:21:37,022 --> 01:21:41,234 - Her sentence is life without the possibility of parole. 1654 01:21:41,276 --> 01:21:45,155 Even Charles Manson doesn't have that sentence. 1655 01:21:48,283 --> 01:21:52,996 - This is, um, July 1991, 1656 01:21:53,038 --> 01:21:55,707 and the trial is all over 1657 01:21:55,749 --> 01:21:57,751 by three or four months. 1658 01:21:57,792 --> 01:22:00,712 I had no idea, and I'm not the only one 1659 01:22:00,754 --> 01:22:03,173 because the judge came in, sentence terms, 1660 01:22:03,214 --> 01:22:05,091 mandatory in the state of New Hampshire, 1661 01:22:05,133 --> 01:22:07,302 life in prison with no parole. 1662 01:22:07,344 --> 01:22:09,220 And I'm telling you, 1663 01:22:09,262 --> 01:22:10,764 not a dry eye in that jury room 1664 01:22:10,805 --> 01:22:13,391 and that's God's honest truth that I saw. 1665 01:22:13,433 --> 01:22:17,604 And even the ones who were like, arguing adamantly 1666 01:22:17,645 --> 01:22:19,814 that she's guilty, and then there were three of us 1667 01:22:19,856 --> 01:22:23,026 who argued adamantly that she wasn't, 1668 01:22:23,068 --> 01:22:24,694 and I was one of them. 1669 01:22:24,736 --> 01:22:27,030 But life was no parole, 1670 01:22:27,072 --> 01:22:28,948 she, you know, 1671 01:22:28,990 --> 01:22:31,284 that's forever, that's not fair. 1672 01:22:31,326 --> 01:22:34,329 And you know, I really believe that I would have hung 1673 01:22:34,371 --> 01:22:37,290 that jury because I was damn close to doing it anyway 1674 01:22:37,332 --> 01:22:40,460 had I know what this sentence was going to be. 1675 01:22:40,502 --> 01:22:46,341 I'm not responsible for what I was to consider as evidence. 1676 01:22:46,383 --> 01:22:49,636 I had no control over evidence that was given. 1677 01:22:49,678 --> 01:22:52,472 I believe there's so much that no one knows 1678 01:22:52,514 --> 01:22:56,101 and we'll probably never know. 1679 01:22:57,602 --> 01:23:00,271 - (deep breath) 1680 01:23:03,233 --> 01:23:04,585 (director) Do you wanna get more specific? 1681 01:23:04,609 --> 01:23:06,736 - No, no, I'm not... I'm telling you, 1682 01:23:06,778 --> 01:23:09,406 this summer, there's gonna be some incredible stuff 1683 01:23:09,447 --> 01:23:11,533 coming out, but I want the attorneys to release it, 1684 01:23:11,574 --> 01:23:13,368 not me. 1685 01:23:13,410 --> 01:23:16,705 I think Fowler will tell us what happened 1686 01:23:16,746 --> 01:23:18,164 when his parole is done, 1687 01:23:18,206 --> 01:23:20,834 and new information will come out. 1688 01:23:20,875 --> 01:23:22,585 We'll leave it at that. 1689 01:23:22,627 --> 01:23:25,505 - Raymond Fowler's family, including his brother, has said 1690 01:23:25,547 --> 01:23:29,718 for many years that the state wants him to stay silent. 1691 01:23:29,759 --> 01:23:33,555 And I believe that even at one point on his website, 1692 01:23:33,596 --> 01:23:37,642 they had some kind of quote saying that if he spoke, 1693 01:23:37,684 --> 01:23:41,104 he would blow the case against me wide open. 1694 01:23:54,743 --> 01:23:57,203 (director) She's still... you know, like you, 1695 01:23:57,245 --> 01:23:59,748 been claiming her innocence to this day. 1696 01:23:59,789 --> 01:24:01,708 Do you think there's any validity in that? 1697 01:24:05,879 --> 01:24:07,589 - Uh... 1698 01:24:08,882 --> 01:24:12,886 From what I've seen, 1699 01:24:12,927 --> 01:24:15,055 um... 1700 01:24:15,096 --> 01:24:19,184 what I've seen from her actions is 1701 01:24:19,225 --> 01:24:22,395 I believe that 1702 01:24:22,437 --> 01:24:25,106 her getting found guilty is right. 1703 01:24:27,484 --> 01:24:29,277 I remember being in the plaza. 1704 01:24:29,319 --> 01:24:31,404 I remember being there the month before. 1705 01:24:31,446 --> 01:24:36,576 So it kind of clicked in my head of, hey, wait a minute, 1706 01:24:36,618 --> 01:24:38,578 this is... looks kinda familiar. 1707 01:24:40,789 --> 01:24:44,542 Billy come in and says that this girl said we can 1708 01:24:44,584 --> 01:24:46,437 break into her house and take whatever we wanted to 1709 01:24:46,461 --> 01:24:49,589 and she wanted to have her husband get killed or something. 1710 01:24:49,631 --> 01:24:51,800 I wasn't really listening to too much of that. 1711 01:24:51,841 --> 01:24:53,802 I was thinking of more just breaking in the house. 1712 01:24:57,138 --> 01:24:59,099 And Billy says, "Come on, 1713 01:24:59,140 --> 01:25:00,517 we're gonna go do that tonight." 1714 01:25:00,558 --> 01:25:04,270 So I went with him, went over to Winnacunnet, 1715 01:25:04,312 --> 01:25:07,982 picked up Pam's car, her Honda CRX. 1716 01:25:08,024 --> 01:25:09,734 I didn't know anywhere... 1717 01:25:09,776 --> 01:25:11,778 where I'm going, where I'm at, nothing. 1718 01:25:11,820 --> 01:25:13,363 So he told me to pull in the plaza, 1719 01:25:13,405 --> 01:25:15,573 I pull in the plaza, and Billy just said, 1720 01:25:15,615 --> 01:25:17,492 "Oh, we can't do nothing. He's home. 1721 01:25:19,327 --> 01:25:22,789 So we got back... (indistinct) 1722 01:25:22,831 --> 01:25:24,791 to the media center. 1723 01:25:24,833 --> 01:25:26,501 (projector whirring) 1724 01:25:35,468 --> 01:25:38,847 You notice in the testimony, 1725 01:25:38,888 --> 01:25:42,851 he said that we waited outside in the car and she came out. 1726 01:25:42,892 --> 01:25:44,894 But in the movie, they're showing him... 1727 01:25:44,936 --> 01:25:49,566 us walking inside of the media center. 1728 01:25:49,607 --> 01:25:51,609 And if you listen to what she says in here 1729 01:25:51,651 --> 01:25:53,671 about saying hi to me, this is what I said happened. 1730 01:25:53,695 --> 01:25:56,322 - Hi, Raymond. 1731 01:25:56,364 --> 01:25:57,741 So did you do it? 1732 01:25:57,782 --> 01:26:00,326 (director) This is your version of the story? 1733 01:26:00,368 --> 01:26:02,662 (Raymond) Um, to a point. 1734 01:26:02,704 --> 01:26:05,498 I mean, I didn't go inside of the media place. 1735 01:26:05,540 --> 01:26:08,126 We picked her up, she got in the car. 1736 01:26:08,168 --> 01:26:11,004 I get in the back, and she would... 1737 01:26:11,046 --> 01:26:13,798 literally just kind of flipped right out on Billy. 1738 01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:16,092 Screaming at him, swearing at him. 1739 01:26:16,134 --> 01:26:17,361 "What do you mean you got lost?" 1740 01:26:17,385 --> 01:26:18,571 And she says, "Did you get a gun?" 1741 01:26:18,595 --> 01:26:20,013 And he says, "No, we got a knife." 1742 01:26:20,055 --> 01:26:21,532 And she said, "A knife? I told you I didn't want it 1743 01:26:21,556 --> 01:26:23,350 done with a knife, it's gonna be a mess 1744 01:26:23,391 --> 01:26:25,018 and it's going to ruin all my furniture" 1745 01:26:25,060 --> 01:26:26,394 And she said, "That's it, 1746 01:26:26,436 --> 01:26:28,772 that's it, no more," or something. 1747 01:26:28,813 --> 01:26:30,624 And Billy said something, and she cranked the radio up. 1748 01:26:30,648 --> 01:26:32,335 And I heard her yelling back and forth to him. 1749 01:26:32,359 --> 01:26:34,527 He was begging her... I could hear them, 1750 01:26:34,569 --> 01:26:36,047 but I couldn't understand what they're saying. 1751 01:26:36,071 --> 01:26:38,448 And I could see them going back and forth, 1752 01:26:38,490 --> 01:26:40,700 but she had the radio so loud, it's all I heard was... 1753 01:26:40,742 --> 01:26:42,553 I don't know what it was, Van Halen or something, 1754 01:26:42,577 --> 01:26:45,372 that she had blasted in the stereo. 1755 01:26:45,413 --> 01:26:47,457 And then she dropped me off, 1756 01:26:47,499 --> 01:26:49,209 and then drove down, like, 1757 01:26:49,250 --> 01:26:50,603 she took Billy home, dropped him off, 1758 01:26:50,627 --> 01:26:53,755 but I know she was pretty pissed off. 1759 01:26:55,256 --> 01:26:59,511 - Um, I'm not sure why he would say that. 1760 01:26:59,552 --> 01:27:01,221 I'm a little confused 1761 01:27:01,262 --> 01:27:05,350 because it contradicts his own previous statement. 1762 01:27:06,851 --> 01:27:08,954 (Surette) You thought that Bill was gonna to kill the guy 1763 01:27:08,978 --> 01:27:10,480 because he wanted to... 1764 01:27:10,522 --> 01:27:12,065 (Raymond) He likes her. 1765 01:27:12,107 --> 01:27:13,751 - But Pamela didn't ask him to kill her husband? 1766 01:27:13,775 --> 01:27:16,194 - I don't know, I didn't talk to her. 1767 01:27:16,236 --> 01:27:18,071 - I don't know wha... 1768 01:27:18,113 --> 01:27:23,868 I believe that was actually a scene in one of the movies. 1769 01:27:23,910 --> 01:27:26,788 (William Hirst) It is extremely possible that Raymond Fowler 1770 01:27:26,830 --> 01:27:31,668 could come to believe that what he saw in the movie 1771 01:27:31,710 --> 01:27:33,253 was what actually happened. 1772 01:27:33,294 --> 01:27:37,424 He can even believe that, "Yes, I remember testifying 1773 01:27:37,465 --> 01:27:40,760 "that I don't remember her saying that. 1774 01:27:40,802 --> 01:27:46,057 "But I now realize that I have come to remember this. 1775 01:27:46,099 --> 01:27:49,185 "And like some... all memories, sometimes you forget them 1776 01:27:49,227 --> 01:27:50,645 "and then they come later on, 1777 01:27:50,687 --> 01:27:52,731 and this is what has happened to me." 1778 01:27:52,772 --> 01:27:55,316 And not realize that it was the media 1779 01:27:55,358 --> 01:27:56,609 that implanted this memory. 1780 01:27:56,651 --> 01:27:58,862 - No, because I know what happened. 1781 01:27:58,903 --> 01:28:02,115 And it will always be in my head what happened. 1782 01:28:02,157 --> 01:28:05,660 But I do know that I remember the movie like it was yesterday. 1783 01:28:05,702 --> 01:28:07,495 I can tell you every part of the movie. 1784 01:28:07,537 --> 01:28:09,456 - What the hell happened out there? 1785 01:28:09,497 --> 01:28:12,375 - I told you, Pam, we just got lost, is all. 1786 01:28:12,417 --> 01:28:13,877 - You expect me to believe that? 1787 01:28:13,918 --> 01:28:17,213 (William) Eyewitness testimony is extremely unreliable, 1788 01:28:17,255 --> 01:28:21,051 and people can be extremely certain and be wrong. 1789 01:28:21,092 --> 01:28:24,596 Not only do memories decay, 1790 01:28:24,637 --> 01:28:28,808 but they get transformed and you can actually 1791 01:28:28,850 --> 01:28:30,685 remember things very, very differently 1792 01:28:30,727 --> 01:28:32,812 than they actually occurred. 1793 01:28:32,854 --> 01:28:34,481 - For me, the Pamela Smart movie 1794 01:28:34,522 --> 01:28:36,483 blurs with the Nicole Kidman movie. 1795 01:28:36,524 --> 01:28:38,610 So now in my memory, I'm not sure what I remember 1796 01:28:38,651 --> 01:28:41,154 from the actual case and what I remember from 1797 01:28:41,196 --> 01:28:43,281 the Van Sant movie. 1798 01:28:43,323 --> 01:28:45,992 - I'm not worried about being true to the facts. 1799 01:28:46,034 --> 01:28:49,037 I want to tell a great story, and I get so into the story 1800 01:28:49,079 --> 01:28:52,665 that I really do forget what actually happened, 1801 01:28:52,707 --> 01:28:55,126 and what just happened in my own version. 1802 01:28:55,168 --> 01:28:59,881 - Let me just check one fact... - (Director) Sure, go ahead. 1803 01:28:59,923 --> 01:29:02,801 - "Teach Me to Kill," the Steve Sawicki book. 1804 01:29:02,842 --> 01:29:05,178 He was formerly "People" magazine. 1805 01:29:05,220 --> 01:29:08,348 Whenever I have to prepare for an interview, 1806 01:29:08,390 --> 01:29:11,101 I like to call that my Bible, I'll go back and just... 1807 01:29:11,142 --> 01:29:13,019 it refreshes my memory about 1808 01:29:13,061 --> 01:29:14,854 things that happened during the case. 1809 01:29:14,896 --> 01:29:17,899 Sometimes the memory fades with time, so... 1810 01:29:17,941 --> 01:29:19,741 - They had all gone through the looking glass. 1811 01:29:19,776 --> 01:29:22,320 The judge, and the jury, and the defense, 1812 01:29:22,362 --> 01:29:24,531 and the prosecutor, and the kids, 1813 01:29:24,572 --> 01:29:26,366 and Pam and Cecelia, 1814 01:29:26,408 --> 01:29:29,703 they're all... they'd all become the movie. 1815 01:29:29,744 --> 01:29:32,539 - I'm not sure if I put this in, but the judge said 1816 01:29:32,580 --> 01:29:34,082 in the trial that he hoped 1817 01:29:34,124 --> 01:29:36,793 Clint Eastwood would play him in the movie. 1818 01:29:36,835 --> 01:29:39,462 - It was reported reliably 1819 01:29:39,504 --> 01:29:41,631 and it's never been denied by Judge Grey. 1820 01:29:41,673 --> 01:29:46,219 - MSNBC, Discovery... 1821 01:29:46,261 --> 01:29:49,681 By my count, this would be the seventh show that 1822 01:29:49,723 --> 01:29:51,363 I've been personally involved in regarding 1823 01:29:51,391 --> 01:29:53,685 the Pamela-Gregg Smart homicide. 1824 01:29:53,727 --> 01:29:56,438 Good news is we've solved the murder of your husband. 1825 01:29:56,479 --> 01:29:58,064 The bad news is you're under arrest, 1826 01:29:58,106 --> 01:30:01,151 so stand up and put your hands behind your back. 1827 01:30:01,192 --> 01:30:04,612 I think I'm even quoted in the IMDb board now 1828 01:30:04,654 --> 01:30:06,406 because that's my quote. 1829 01:30:06,448 --> 01:30:09,325 (Ted) It's really rare to find someone who doesn't want to be 1830 01:30:09,367 --> 01:30:13,329 on a TV show to act the way that you want them to act 1831 01:30:13,371 --> 01:30:16,875 or to act the way that they think you want them to act. 1832 01:30:18,209 --> 01:30:21,129 - As soon as I walked in the room today, I... 1833 01:30:26,384 --> 01:30:29,262 I felt a tremendous amount of shame. 1834 01:30:29,304 --> 01:30:32,307 - Just hours ago, three boys, all of them students... 1835 01:30:32,349 --> 01:30:36,102 I mean, you talk about surreal. The screenwriter tells me, 1836 01:30:36,144 --> 01:30:39,814 we're casting actors to play you. 1837 01:30:39,856 --> 01:30:43,568 And I thought, an actor is going to play me? 1838 01:30:44,736 --> 01:30:46,380 Everything I'm saying right here is an ad lib. 1839 01:30:46,404 --> 01:30:49,366 The director told me just to talk to Helen Hunt. 1840 01:30:49,407 --> 01:30:50,950 You look absolutely beautiful... 1841 01:30:50,992 --> 01:30:54,204 (J. Albert) Everyone concerned with Pamela Smart's trial 1842 01:30:54,245 --> 01:30:57,457 was caught up in a black hole, 1843 01:30:57,499 --> 01:31:00,418 a black hole of media attention. 1844 01:31:00,460 --> 01:31:03,922 ♪♪ 1845 01:31:06,466 --> 01:31:11,137 (Joyce C.) This is in hindsight of 20 years of exploiting it. 1846 01:31:11,179 --> 01:31:13,515 As you are doing. 1847 01:31:15,767 --> 01:31:20,313 We exploited her. 1848 01:31:20,355 --> 01:31:23,650 (Stan) And that's what we do. But you know what's interesting? 1849 01:31:23,692 --> 01:31:25,735 My job as a television and movie producer, 1850 01:31:25,777 --> 01:31:27,987 creating a television movie for an audience 1851 01:31:28,029 --> 01:31:30,240 that has to understand it in very simple terms 1852 01:31:30,281 --> 01:31:32,826 is probably very similar to what a defense attorney 1853 01:31:32,867 --> 01:31:35,120 or prosecuting attorney has to do for a jury. 1854 01:31:35,161 --> 01:31:37,122 They have to simplify it for them: 1855 01:31:37,163 --> 01:31:40,208 this is the bad guy, this is a good guy. 1856 01:31:42,877 --> 01:31:44,230 (Richard) It's all about manipulation 1857 01:31:44,254 --> 01:31:49,509 because victory is about manipulating emotion, 1858 01:31:49,551 --> 01:31:51,636 thought, identity, 1859 01:31:51,678 --> 01:31:54,014 a sense of truth and justice. 1860 01:31:54,055 --> 01:31:57,434 And all of that is the product 1861 01:31:57,475 --> 01:32:01,104 of wrapping someone in a narrative. 1862 01:32:01,146 --> 01:32:03,940 (Ted) I think that as a society, 1863 01:32:03,982 --> 01:32:07,652 we judge people based on their stories. 1864 01:32:07,694 --> 01:32:12,657 And when someone has a compelling story 1865 01:32:12,699 --> 01:32:14,117 and they're great at telling it, 1866 01:32:14,159 --> 01:32:15,994 they get the benefit of the doubt. 1867 01:32:16,036 --> 01:32:20,874 And when someone has a story that doesn't quite fit together, 1868 01:32:20,915 --> 01:32:24,169 as most stories don't in reality, 1869 01:32:24,210 --> 01:32:26,921 and they're not good at telling that story, 1870 01:32:26,963 --> 01:32:29,674 they get the short end of the stick. 1871 01:32:29,716 --> 01:32:31,885 (Richard) So at its highest level, 1872 01:32:31,926 --> 01:32:33,845 you have competing Shakespeares 1873 01:32:33,887 --> 01:32:38,350 portraying characters in stories 1874 01:32:38,391 --> 01:32:41,728 that may or may not be true. 1875 01:32:41,770 --> 01:32:44,898 And of course, justice might miscarry 1876 01:32:44,939 --> 01:32:49,069 if we wanted this defendant to be something 1877 01:32:49,110 --> 01:32:51,488 maybe different from what she is. 1878 01:32:51,529 --> 01:32:54,657 ♪♪ 1879 01:32:54,699 --> 01:32:59,788 Which one of these Pamela Smarts is real? 1880 01:33:05,877 --> 01:33:09,089 - She's right, t's not her movie. 1881 01:33:09,130 --> 01:33:11,007 It's our movie. 1882 01:33:14,594 --> 01:33:17,972 (Pamela) I've been fighting for over two decades, 1883 01:33:18,014 --> 01:33:22,018 and I'm always fighting to get out of here. 1884 01:33:22,060 --> 01:33:24,604 It gets tiring. It gets exhausting. 1885 01:33:24,646 --> 01:33:31,194 But I realized that if I let go of the fight, then they won. 1886 01:33:31,236 --> 01:33:35,281 And if I let go of hope, what do I have? 1887 01:33:35,323 --> 01:33:38,493 Hopes and dreams are the air 1888 01:33:38,535 --> 01:33:40,787 that sustains me every day. 1889 01:33:44,165 --> 01:33:46,459 Last week, I lost my ID. 1890 01:33:46,501 --> 01:33:48,461 So I went to get a new ID. 1891 01:33:48,503 --> 01:33:50,046 And when I was taking the picture, 1892 01:33:50,088 --> 01:33:52,465 all of a sudden, I just started smiling. 1893 01:33:52,507 --> 01:33:54,509 So the officer, he said, "Why are you smiling?" 1894 01:33:54,551 --> 01:33:57,470 Who smiles for their prison picture, right? 1895 01:33:57,512 --> 01:33:59,806 And I said, well, I'm smiling because 1896 01:33:59,848 --> 01:34:01,975 it's the last one I'm ever going to take. 1897 01:34:02,017 --> 01:34:03,643 And he said, "Why?" 1898 01:34:03,685 --> 01:34:06,187 And I said, 'cause I'm leaving. I'm getting out of here. 1899 01:34:09,024 --> 01:34:12,152 What a great movie it'll be if I get out, right? 1900 01:34:12,193 --> 01:34:13,945 You would just have the greatest footage 1901 01:34:13,987 --> 01:34:16,489 in America if you get like, 1902 01:34:16,531 --> 01:34:18,324 me coming out of the door, 1903 01:34:18,366 --> 01:34:20,910 you know, leaving the prison. 1904 01:34:20,952 --> 01:34:23,371 And, oh, God. Yeah, so that's it. 1905 01:34:25,290 --> 01:34:27,250 (phone hangs up) 1906 01:34:27,292 --> 01:34:32,297 ♪♪ 1907 01:35:30,855 --> 01:35:36,069 ♪♪ 142070

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