All language subtitles for Saul Leiter - In No Great Hurry.en

[ Man ]
I never did
anything like that,

I just take pictures
of somebody's window.

That's not such
a great achievement.

What makes anyone think
that I'm any good?

Iam actually,
sometimes, very good.

But I shouldn't
brag about it.

When I consider
all the beautiful things
that have been done,

my own achievements
are rather minor.

I'm not carried away
by the greatness
of Mr. Leiter.

He's a minor figure
and does not deserve...

to have...

a story about him.

On the other hand,
what can you do?

[ Chuckling ]

You could start--

You could start
the thing with that.

{ Man #2 Clears Throat ]

Okay.

Just tell me "action."

[ Man #3]
Action, Max.
[ Max ] All right.

“Though he originally
came to New York...

to become a painter,

Saul Leiter circulated
as a photographer,

who during the late '50s
to the '80s made his living
by fashion assignments.

With what one writer
has called...

‘his disdain for
self-promotion, '

Leiter dismisses the idea that
his personal street pictures,

a great archive from the period
only now coming to light,

have anything new
or noteworthy to show us.

This sincere opinion
is mistaken.

To say that he
flourishes at the top,

in the Mount Olympus
of New York photography,
is saying a great deal.

He's right up there
with the amazing heights
of photographic history itself.

He's more abstract than many,

he's more constructive
than several,

but he's also more soulful
than a great many.

Let's hope that
this shy artist...

will be reconciled
to the admiration
that is only now,

belatedly and justifiably
bestowed upon his art."

Basta.
[ Chuckles ]

[ Saul ]
Where did I get
my first camera?

I nagged my mother
when I was quite young,
and she bought me--

Whenever I wanted something
that I enjoyed or liked,

I turned to my mother.

My father was not
the person to approach...

for something
that gave me pleasure.

And I can't remember why,
I thought I'd like a camera...

and my mother brought me
something that was called
a Detrola.

It's a kind of plastic
little camera.

And occasionally
I would take a picture
and I'd send the, uh--

the film off to be
developed somewhere,

I don't know,

and I remember ordering...

a blue print.

They made blue prints.
[ Chuckling ]

And I think it cost 25 cents
to have a roll developed.

But I didn't do a lot of it.

It wasn't something...

that I, uh, was
very serious about.

I think when I got to know
Richard Pousette-Dart and
Richard did photography,

and Richard fixed cameras--

He liked to do
all kinds of things.

I started, I think,
to maybe think...

that there was
the possibility--

I can't remember
what I thought,

but I began
to take photography
more seriously,

to think maybe it could be
a way of earning a living.

Although I wasn't quite--

When I look back on my life...

and how badly prepared I was
for living in the world,

I was astonished
that I had the nerve...

to have the illusion that
I could manage to survive.

[ Man Chuckling ]

I don't know
what gave me the idea...

that there was any hope for me.

My mother was sending me
some money, kept me afloat.

My apartment, I think,
cost $32 a month...

or something like that.

And then I began
to get some work.

Well, at some point
I began to use color, because--

And I discovered that
they came in boxes, you know,

you bought a roll of color,
you had it developed,

that you didn't have to--
you didn't have to cut it up,

it already came
in little boxes, slides.

And that was quite nice.

And I liked what I saw.
I enjoyed looking at
some of my color pictures,

I thought they
were rather nice.

And so I saw nothing wrong.

And of course
some people thought
it was a waste of time...

that I was taking
color pictures.

“What are you gonna do
with all of these slides?

Why don't you
get rid of them?

Why don't you this?
Why don't you that?"

[ Man ]
What did you do with them?

Well, I kept them
in cabinets.

There was a fire
when a lot of them
were sprayed.

Uh--

But the point is,
I enjoyed doing it...

and I didn't see--
I didn't share the opinion
of those people.

And the truth
of the matter is,

there have always been
people who like color.

It's not as if
I was the only person.

I've been described
as being a pioneer.
Am 1a pioneer?

I don't know
that I'm a pioneer.

I think eventually
it'll turn out that
many people did color.

I mean, I think if you know
enough about photography,

you realize that...

nothing is really that new.

If you really knew
what has been done and tried
by other people...

you'd realize that
nothing is terribly new.

[ Man ]
Does it annoy you that
people call you a pioneer?

No, I'm not annoyed.

Maybe I am, maybe I'm not.

Maybe I'm part
of a small group.

I don't know.
I don't care.

I don't mind
one way or the other.

[ Chuckles ]
[ Chuckles ]

[ Saul ]
There's too much, isn't there?
[ Woman ] There's a lot.

There's just too much stuff.

[ Woman ]
What's this?
Let's see. I'm old and tired.

And I need a rest.

And no one lets me rest.

[ Saul ]
Oh, that's it.

It's empty.
What?

It's empty, except
for some cords.

Yeah?

It's connected to this.
Yeah.

He's photographing us.

What is he doing?
[ Laughs ]

That maniac.

It's all Margit's fault.

It's my fault?

Yeah, it's all your fault.

You're nice to people
and it's your fault.

I bought this at--

I like these.

These are old English--

I think it was 48 cents,
which I thought was reasonable.

[ Margit ]
Are those slides?

- What?
- Are they slides?

No. They're boxes...

from things...

that Soames
and I bought.

See?

But they're all empty,
but I don't want
to throw them away.

Okay.
You can take them
upstairs.

Okay.

This, I think,
can be thrown out.

It had a stick.

He's documented...

the most sordid
aspects of my life.

[ Saul Chattering, Indistinct ]

[ Man ] Do you think
one of the reasons there's
so much stuff around here...

is that it's--
there are so many memories?

Well, you know,
if you're a painter
and you do things...

and you're a photographer
and you do things
and you do stuff...

and no one sees it,
no one buys it,
no one takes it away,

and you have it around
and you don't destroy it...

you end up with too much stuff.

You know what I mean?

It's not hot enough.

So I think I will work,
it'll be a project.

I will see if I can
empty this place out,

maybe.

If I can't, I can't.

[ Man ]
Do you want to get rid
of all of it?

No, I don't want
to get rid of it,

but I want it somewhere
where I don't see it.

And Margit had suggested
that I put things in storage,
and I told her I didn't want to.

She thought I should put
Soames's paintings in storage.

And I've heard
too many stories...

about storage being a place
where people lose things.

Things are stolen from storage.

And I don't care
to have that happen
if I can avoid it.

You know?

So what will you do
with it all?
I don't know.

I'm not supposed
to worry about it.

I'm allowed not to worry.

I think that I'm allowed
to paint a little bit
and to do what I do,

and not to lie awake
worrying about everything.

[ Man ]
If you do pack all this stuff
away, will you miss it?

No.
I can make new stuff.

I paint. In a short time
I could have new disorders.

No, I'm not--

I'm amused by things.
I've acquired things.

T like owning
certain things.

But then I'm not
obsessed with them.

Soames used to feel bad...

when we had to sell
certain things.

I figured
that it would be...

you own something
and it goes to other people.

When you die,
you can't take
everything with you.

You can't take
anything with you.

[ Man ]
You never wonder
about any kind of legacy or--

What does legacy mean?

Do I feel that I have a message
of goodwill for all humanity?

I mean, what's my legacy?

I'm a photographer,
I paint, I take--

I make some paintings.
I take some pictures.

I had a--
If I didn't have another book,

I would be pleased that I had
the little book that I have,

which seems to have
touched certain people
or moved people or aroused.

I think that was nice.

Am 1a heroic figure,

a giant straddling across...

the mountains
of photography?

I don't think so.

[ Chuckling ]

Well, my family--
my father's family,

hundreds of people
died in the Holocaust.

But I did tell him one day
that I wasn't--

[ Chuckles ]

I think I said
something very unkind,

like that I didn't plan
to be a professional Jew
for the rest of my life.

[ Chuckles ]

It's not a nice thing
to say to your father,

who's a great Talmudic scholar.

A light in the diaspora.

I had the talent for it
but eventually I turned
against it...

and got fed up with
the whole religious world...

and all the preoccupations
with purity and nobility...

and observance.

I wanted to be free
of those things.

But sometimes
when I think about it,

I think that we live
in an insane world...

where there are
all kinds of people...

who have different
notions of God,

who manage to know
what he wants,

who have carefully
transcribed his written--

[ Chuckles ]

And yet people believe in it
and order their lives around it.
Hmm.

I wrote a poem called
"The Ways to God."

I wrote this when
I think I was 14 or 15.
It's a long poem.

“The ways to God
are worn and thin...

and loveliness
is laughing sin."

[ Chuckling ]

And it goes on from there.

That's pretty good,
when I think of it.

The ways to God
are worn and thin.

But there is this crazy thing
in the world we live in.

My father from time to time
descended into, uh,

unkindness.

The Leiter family
is not as familiar...

with the notion of kindness...

as I believe they might have
or should have been.

[ Chuckling ]

Greatness was important,

great scholarship
was important.

Intellectual achievement
was important.

Knowing was important.

Knowing a great deal
was important.

Kindness?

Well, if it interfered--

If kindness interfered...

with...

the pursuit of knowledge...

and greatness and learning
and scholarship,

too bad.

Get rid of it.

[ Man ]
Do you not like,
even a tiny bit,

the idea of having
a film about yourself?

I'll tell you what I feel.

I have allowed you--

‘Cause I didn't
do it before.

I have not given you
permission, yet,

to do a film about me.

I've allowed you
to take pictures
and to talk to me.

However, you have
no official right...
[ Chuckling ]

to make a film
about me...

until I see
what you've done.

Now, maybe when
I see it, I'll think,

"Oh, my God.
That's very bad."

I don't know.

Uh, I mean, I think
I'm being sincere...

when I say that
I've never been driven.

I-I don't--

I didn't expect
to have a book on my work.
That's the truth.

Did I think that one day
I'd have a book?

I didn't know
that I'd have a book.

I told you this before,
a book was for Cartier-Bresson,

for Walker Evans,
for Atget,

for Kertész,
whose work I love.

And I didn't walk around
feeling that I was
an important--

I had not spent my life
feeling important.

[ Saul ]
What does that mean?

[ Man ]
Yeah, I don't know.

Do you feel important?
Never.

So do you think
there's a chance that
I will make this film...

and you will say
that I can't use it?

Well, I like to think
I'm not gonna do that.

I might not care for
the way I look these days,

because I think
that I looked better
when I was younger,

but maybe I'm being unfair
to the way I look now.

Who knows?
[ Chuckling ]

Shall we get some lunch?
Yes.

You Know,
you walk down the street,
and you realize,

when you're 80,
you look in a window...

and there's this old guy
walking along with you,

and you realize
that's who you are.

[ Chuckling ]

[ Chuckling ]

I like the hat.

There was a time
when photographs weren't
taken very seriously.

Matisse said somewhere
photographs are really
suitable as documents.

He didn't consider them
as potentially works of art.

I read somewhere recently
that almost from
the very beginning...

- certain people were
showing photographs--
- [ Man ] Really?

[ Saul ]
As worthy of being included...

ina artistic world.

[ Man ]
Did you enjoy being
part of it all...

when shows were happening
at MoMA and colleagues--

I didn't appreciate
properly...

the importance of
my being included in, uh--

in the MoMA show.

Some of my friends,
I think, were jealous,

but I didn't understand.
[ Shutter Clicks ]

I have sometimes
overlooked the fact...

that something was
actually of some importance.

You know what I mean?
I do.

I was in
The Always Young Stranger
at the Modern Museum.

I thought it was nice.

Were people
jealous of you?
Maybe, I don't know.

I mean, I wasn't--
they weren't particularly--

[ Chuckling ]

They didn't make me feel
that they were pleased...

that I had been chosen too.

You know what I mean?

Because you were friends
with other photographers,
or colleagues--

I wasn't that friendly
with photographers.

I knew Eugene Smith,
who I think is
a great photographer.

So you never felt
part of a movement,
or part of a scene?

No.

Well, I Knew I lived
on 10th Street.

Some people now write,

and they connect my work
with abstract expressionism,

or they point out--

I knew Richard,
he was a friend.

I went to openings.
I saw Jackson Pollock.

I saw Rothko.
I saw Newman.

I saw--
They were around.

They were not
mysterious figures.

De Kooning was
standing at the corner.

He asked me not
to photograph him
so 1 didn't.

I was about
to take his picture,
he said "no."

So I didn't take it.

I didn't think
it was terribly important
to photograph him.

I said to a friend
of mine recently...

that a window covered
with raindrops...

interests me more...
[ Chuckling ]

than a photograph
of a famous person.

Not that a photograph
of a famous person...

can't be
a nice photograph too.

But--
[ Chuckling ]

Something about raindrops.

The other day it was raining
and I was taking some
pictures of them...

and I-- the camera
did something funny
and began underexposing.

And I liked
the underexposed raindrops...

better than the lighter ones.

No, it-it's--

I think, you know,
everything-- everything is
suitable to be photographed.

Everything is a photograph.

We live in a world today
where almost everything
is a photograph.

And the one nice thing
about photography,

it teaches you to look.

It teaches you to appreciate
all kinds of things.

I can't even read it,

but there are a bunch
of negatives here.

See what I mean?

How irresponsible I am.

I can't show you every one.

This is a young lady...

who was an editor...

at Harper's Bazaar.

This is a picture here...

that Steichen liked...

and I gave him a print
which probably has disappeared.

How's that for an answer?

This is a picture
I took of Soames.

I was going to make
a painting of it.

I think I might have painted it.

I used the wide-angle,
I should have used
the telephoto.

This chair which I like...

was put into storage
and it was never retrieved.

It's probably gone.

This is Soames.

I can't remember
what she was doing...

and whether it makes
much sense or not.

Unless it's an evil,
degenerate picture
that I'm unaware of.

Her left breast showing.

Looking a little bit
Japanese-y maybe.

Oh, and this is
my assistant...

whom I did some pictures of...

that are slightly--

they're slightly--

A long time ago.

It was all a long time ago...

and I was not cut out...

for all of the business
that went on.

So that's the story...

of my secret life...

as a Creep.

I own this apartment
and I own the other,

unfortunately due to the fact
that Soames died which--

because this was her apartment
that she left to me...

which I helped her buy
when she bought it.

I've lived in
the building since 1952.

And since I'm very lazy
and tend not to move around
like some people do,

who keep moving from place
to place as they go up
in the scale of things.

[ Man ]
So you've been
in the neighborhood since '52?

Fifty-two.

Forty-eight, 58...

almost 60 years.

And do you like
the neighborhood?

Yes. I think
it's rather nice.

It's changed over the years,
it's gone from--

I've been told by people
that it's now quite fashionable,

but I remember
a long time ago that it was--

well, it was the Lower East Side
which was at one point
not considered...

the most desirable
place to live.

But, uh,

I've, uh--
I think it's okay.

I can imagine
living in other places.

I can imagine having
a different kind of life.

Ican imagine living
in the country, maybe,
although I don't know.

I can imagine things
being different.

I can imagine.

[ Chuckling ]

[ Children Chattering ]

Wait, you're blurred.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait!

Okay, done.

And then I'll take your picture
and I will send 60 prints.

[ Shutter Clicks ]
[ Chuckling ]

It's actually
quite nice here today.

[ Man ]
It's very pretty.
There are people in the garden.

[ Chuckling ]

He's doing
a document on me.

I thought that
I'm not worthy of one.

I see no reason
why anyone wants
to do a document on me.

And he comes from Europe
and tortures me.

And I was hoping
to be forgotten.

I aspire to be
unimportant and--

So what can you do?

[ Woman ]
Nice to see you.
Hi, Susan.

Tomas is doing
a document on me.

He saw Margit this morning.
[ Tomas ]
I did.

And I have tried
to persuade him--
To drop the whole thing?

To drop the whole thing.
I know. He comes to see me
at dinner and he goes,

"I don't understand why!"

[ Chuckling ]
Wait a minute,
stay there.

Now, don't move.

Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

Wait--
[ Chuckling ]

I can't stay here forever.

I'm sorry!
Is she a dancer?

[ Giggling ]
Nol

[ Margit ]
Do you want coffee?

{ Voice On Recording,
Indistinct ]

[ Beep ]
[ Male Electronic Voice ]
End of messages.

There's some good
messages in there.

“Saul, you've just been acquired
by the Philadelphia
Museum of Art."

“Saul, you've just been--"
[ Chuckling ]

That's nice.
Yeah.

And I'll sit on
this little stool.
Mm-hmm.

- And where will I sit?
- And maybe now that this
table is beautifully cleared,

we can put the binder
on the table.

Yes. Where, here?
Yeah, you sit down there.

[ Saul ]
It's sad when you get
to be an older person,

and people treat you
like an object.

And you no longer
have very much to say
about anything.

Oh, no.
And you find people
coming into your life...

and arranging things.

But you're having fun.

Fun?
You call this fun?

Wait a minute.
Let me get rid of that.

I think that one, maybe.

See, I'm not very good
at editing things.

I like this top hat one.
I do, too.
I like the hat one.

Which one
do you like best?
I think this is okay.

[--

I'm not sure about--
These are nice.

T like this one here,
which is rather odd.
I like that one too.

It's kind of nice.

Look at these. These are great.

He's photographed
the same neighborhood
for 55 years,

and, uh, there's a certain charm
of the ones from the '50s,

because you've got
'50s cars and '50s people
and '50s fashion.

But he's shooting it
with the same Leiter style
in 2011. It's amazing.

I think people are gonna
be really surprised.
You think?

But the question is
what format to put these in.

Do we print them?
Maybe they won't care.

Do we put them
on aTV monitor?
They're digital.

It's hard to know what--

See, I've never cared that much.

When I say I've cared,
I've never--

When I worked for people
I wanted them to like
what I did...

‘cause I didn't want
to have to take it over,

among other things.

I like having people
like what I do.

[ Margit ]
We'd better just
see all of them.

Any more?
There's a nice one.

Very static, controlled.

[ Tomas ]
Would you like these
to be published, Saul?

I enjoy seeing things
that I like published.

I have not, uh--

I've had so much published...

in the fairly recent period,

that--

I've had a lot
of things published.

When you have
too much published,

you don't jump
up and down...

the way you do if you have
very little published.

Photographers
can tell you that, maybe.

[ Chuckling ]

You know what I mean?

These are some--
I was walking over
to the gallery...

and these were all
people posing for their
graduation pictures.

Saul stumbles into an NYU,
um, graduation, like--
like, rally...

[ Chuckling ]
with all these people
wearing caps and gowns.

And he just blends right in
and takes pictures.

And they're all hugging
each other and smiling...

and Saul's like someone's
anonymous grandfather.

Yes, I guess that's it.

This particular picture
was taken...

at the corner of 11th Street
and Third Avenue.

The man was
painting a sign...

and one day I walked by.

I took a number
of photographs--

and some of them
have disappeared--

of this particular, uh--

But I didn't go out
to take him.

I just had my camera
with me.

I very often would carry
my camera around.

But I don't recall
sort of...

planning to photograph
certain things.

I go out with my camera
and I take pictures...

because I enjoy catching
certain moments.

Of course I don't know
that I'm going to get
what I'm going to get.

It takes time.

If you have a camera,
you take a picture,

you're not quite sure
what you get,

even though some photographers
have a tendency...

to like to know exactly
what they're going to get.

Or some photographers
like to set things up...

and control what they see...

and arrange things
in a certain way.

‘Cause that's
what they like to do.

Just like some people
would never wear red socks.

Why? Because...

it's a statement
they don't care to make.

[ Chuckling ]

[ Laughing ]

When I think to myself,

I very often think of colors.

I think of painting,

even when I'm not painting
or when I am painting.

When it comes to photography,
it's a different thing.

I tend to react to what I find.

[ Tomas ] Could you describe,
‘cause I've never really
done any printing--

Ah, don't ask me to describe
what makes a good print.

No, I was gonna say--
I wasn't!

You come through with these
idiotic questions and I have
to be nice and answer,

I wasn't!
"Why do you do this,
and why--"

You Know one thing
that drives me absolutely crazy?

Why, why, why, why, why.

The nice thing about
not attracting attention
and being ignored...

is no one asks you,
"Why do you do this?
Why do you do that?

Why do you do that?
Why did you put-- Why?

Who influenced you?
Did you--
Bah, bah, bah, bah!"

I wasn't going
to ask that question.

What were you gonna ask?
I was gonna Say,
how do you work with him?

Do you send a negative
and he does his--

‘Cause I know your eye
for color is really good.

We were looking
at the prints here,
the other day,

and you said that in
the bottom corner there could be
a little bit more red.

And that's quite
a very subtle approach to color.

It's not very subtle at all.

It's just simply a bad print
was used in the book--
Right.

and they should have had one
where you saw the red.

He has lots
of nice stuff here.

It's fun to come in
because you're always
seeing different things.

[ Tomas ]
Yeah.

That's the original done
on shiny paper.

[ Woman ]
Yeah, so Philippe
was saying...

that you wanted to paint
on top of the print?
Yeah. Sometimes I do that.

In other words,
after I have a blowup,

if I have one or two
I'll paint each one
a little differently.

Okay, so the print
is the final piece?
Yeah.

You don't plan to scan it
and then do yet another print?
No.

Okay.
Unless maybe--

[ All Laughing ]

After-After I paint it
then we make another print.
Great.

Ideally it would be fun
to keep--

You know, it would be fun,
but we're not gonna do that.

Generally it's a little more
successful to paint
on the matte paper--

I think so.
‘cause it's kind of porous.

And I just don't know
how the paint--

how long it would last
on the luster surface.

[ Indistinct ]

I made two.
I can make more like that.

I can give you one for now
and then let's find one
or wait to sign them.

Then I'm gonna take one.
Oh, maybe I'll wait.

[ Indistinct ]
Yeah.

Uh, this particular--
[ Indistinct ]

When I die, the--
if I have an obituary,

which I may be lucky enough
not to have--

[ All Laughing ]

they'll reproduce
this print.

This will be--
He did "Through Boards."

And "Lanesville."
"Lanesville."

He did "Through Boards."
Yeah.

If I had only known...

which ones would be
very good and liked,

I wouldn't have had to do
all the thousands of others.

[ Chuckling ]

I could have--

I could have stuck
to a small number
of what they--

They're referred to
in acertain circle
as winners.

Well...

just think
what would have happened
if Picasso had done that.

Well, Picasso,
I think, did too much.

That's nice.
Isn't that nice?

Yes, it's beautiful.
It has a wonderful
kind of--

[ Tomas ]
Yeah, it's very nice, isn't it?
It's very different.

[ Saul ]
I always tell people...

that the moment you
walk into Philippe's place
and start ordering prints...

you become a better
photographer immediately.

I'm going to have
to tell your studio--

Yes?
One of 20.

One of 20.

And then here.

Have you made a package
for Saul?

With the--
Just the small ones, right?
Yeah.

[ Philippe ]
So.

[ Saul ]
So. I have to--

These are digital fiber
black-and-white prints.

[ Fades Out, Indistinct ]

[ No Audible Dialogue ]

[ Saul ]
I've said some things that
should not have been said.

[ Tomas Laughs ]
That I should have avoided--
[ Laughing ]

That I should have avoided
commenting on.

But that's how it is.

Let's get some lunch.
There are the things
that are out in the open,

and then there are
the things that are hidden.

And life has more to do--

The real world has more to do
with what is hidden, maybe.

You think?
Yeah, that could be true.

You think it's true?
It could be.

It could be very true.

Though we like to pretend
that what is public
or what is--

is what the real world
is all about.

That's pretty good, isn't it?
[ Tomas ]
That is great, yeah.

Did they know they're providing
an older person...

with outrageous behavior?

And these are
my back of the--

I thought of doing
a little collection
of people from behind.

[ Bells Tolling ]

[ Indistinct ]

[ Tomas ]
With the fashion photography,

how did it happen
that you started doing it--

Because Henry--
I went to see Henry Wolf,

and I showed him
some of my color--

I-I suppose you
could call them experiments.

And they were very nice pictures
and he liked them.

And he said,
"When I go to Harper's Bazaar,
which I'm going to do,

I am going to use you
in the magazine."

So that's how
I began to do work
for Harper's Bazaar.

So then people
who weren't interested in me,

whom I'd tried to see...

or tried to talk to
about representing me,

turned up suddenly
‘cause I was in the magazine.

[ Tomas ] Did you separate
the work you did for yourself
and the work that you did--

No, I didn't
separate anything.

I tried to do
nice things...

and sometimes
they overlapped.

Sometimes one encouraged--

My photographs in fashion
were probably, uh, related...

in some way
to personal things.

So that, uh--

I mean,
Robert Frank did fashion.

Uh, who else?
A number of very--

Lou Faurer.
He was ashamed,
he said, of his fashion.

He wished he hadn't done it.
He used to complain about it.

Different people had
different attitudes.

I didn't consider it
a bad thing
to earna living.

I thought that
that was permissible.

[ Chuckling ]

I didn't pay any attention
to anyone who criticized me.

I'm sure there were people
who didn't take me seriously...

because I was doing fashion.

There is a tendency,
a kind of snobbishness, that--

I don't know
if it's still true.

‘Cause now
you can do anything.

I did things
‘cause I enjoyed doing them.

I enjoyed doing fashion
at certain points.

At other points,
I worked with people who
were not particularly, uh--

[ Clicks Tongue ]
imaginative...

and wouldn't let me do
what I wanted to do.

But the way I put it
at some point was...

that if I were allowed by
the people I worked for...

to do something good,
I would do it.

And if they didn't allow me
to do something good,

I could do something bad.

[ Chuckles ]

You must know that,
from working with people.
[ Laughs ] I do.

[ Tomas ]
So what are in
all these boxes, Saul?

Well, they're negatives.

I have to go through them.

If I didn't meet up
with people like you--

I need a year
of being left alone.

I'm allowed to see Margit.

See, here, negatives.

In fact, this is, uh--

These are some negatives
that were exposed...

and I think they were damaged.

Things have a way, you see--

Things have a way
of getting mixed up with me.

As opposed to certain people
like Margit.

If I only had had
a Margit in my life...

when I was younger,

who had helped me keep order,

I would know
where everything is.

All my negatives
would be marked.

People would say,
"Do you have a picture
of so-and-so?"

And I'd say, "Oh, yes,"
and I'd take it out,
have a print made.

It would be very easy.

But disorder,
there's a certain kind
of charm...

and comfort in disorder...

[ Chuckling ]
that not everyone appreciates.

[ Chuckling ]

To know everything is not good.

To be in a state
of pleasant confusion,

sometimes can be
very satisfying.

Especially
if you're slightly crazy.
[ Chuckling ]

But I must not let on
that I know this.

[ No Audible Dialogue ]

[ Laughing ]

[ Tomas ]
Oh, wow, look at him.

That's--
This particular scene
is pretty hard to beat.

[ Digital Shutter Clicks ]
Yeah,
he's a good boy.

[ Tomas Laughing ]

When we came up here
the other day--
Yeah?

you described this room
as a bit like a cemetery?

Or how did you describe it?

I thought, you know,
when you live in a place,

and then you abandoned it
and it gets run-down,

and it gets to be sad,

and it gets to be
whatever it gets to be,

it makes you sad...

because this room
was once empty.

The ceilings and the walls
were plastered.

And they were not--
They were rough,
but it wasn't--

And...

I lived here
and there was this table.

That was over there...

and that was over there.

No, that wasn't even there.
That was up in the studio maybe.

And this wasn't--
None of this was here.

It was empty.

There was a skylight,
there was a--

You Know,
it was a different thing.

And the floors tended to be,
at that time,

tended to be...

waxed.

And so it's like looking
at an abandoned--

You look at something, and--

I don't spend a lot of time
thinking about it.

Maybe I do more
than I think I do.

Maybe I do everything more
than I think I do.

Maybe.

This is a picture taken in...

Venice, maybe.

These are all mixed up.

My idea was to try
to file them away
in some kind of order,

but what I do is
I start something
and then I run away from it...

because it strikes me
as being somewhat--

It demands a certain energy,

which maybe I do not have.

I worry about what will happen
to some of these,

but I don't worry too much.

It may turn out
to be a job...

for Margit to attend to...

whom I happen
to love and adore.

Although it's a great secret.
No one would know this.

This is one you thought
could grade...

‘cause you don't know anything
about anything,

but I have to pretend you do.

I have to treat you
with respect,

even though you don't know
lots of things.

I do like photographs where
sometimes everything's lost...

and in some corner,
something's going on...

and you're not quite sure
what it--

Although I've done a lot
of pictures of other things
in other ways.

When Margit
sometimes says to me,
"That's not really you,"

I sometimes wonder
what is really me.

This is another one
of those street things.

And this is a picture
of a young woman.

A nude.

It's kind of nice
when you see a print of it,

because you're not aware
immediately what it is.

[ Tomas ]
Mmm.

My photographs are meant...

to tickle your left ear.

[ Chuckling ]

Very lightly.
[ Chuckling ]

My photographs are meant to--
Creep up behind you
and tickle your left ear?

Yes.

Let's go downstairs.
I'm tired.

Am I allowed
to be tired, Tomas?
You are.

[ Saul ]
This is very funny.
I have to clean it up.

It says--
[ Chuckles ]

“To dearest Soames,
my only friend.

The others are
scoundrels and louts.

[ Chuckles ]

Love, Bonnard."

[ Muttering ]

What is that?

Oh.
Look at that.

That was lying--

Does it fill the whole frame?

[ Tomas ]
Almost.

Almost?

[ Muttering ]

Couldn't I die first?

No, I can't.

What a pity.

[ Saul ]
And here is a Lyonel Feininger.

And here is a de Stael.
There's that.

Now my friend Soames,

who I would not have expected
to like this kind of painting...

on the basis
of what she liked,

was very fond of de Stael.

In fact, when we were
going through the books,

I uncovered a little book...

that I had bought for her
before she died.

[ Tomas ]
Did you talk about art
with Soames a lot?

Yes, we did.
We used to have--

We used to sit and
talk about painting.

That was one thing we did,

that we shared a love of art
and painting and books...

and prints
and all kinds of things,

and we very often--

She would sit
and listen to music,

and I would sit in this room
and look over and see her.

I liked looking over...

and seeing Soames rocking away
and listening to music.

And--

And then she...

kicked the bucket.

You know what
kick the bucket means?
Mmm.

It was very unkind of her.

She--
She may have gotten tired
or disappointed in me.

I sometimes wonder
whether she wouldn't
have been better off...

marrying
a nice, very rich man...

who could have given her
a lot of things that she needed,

like a nice studio,

and a collection of prints,

and an occasional
Bonnard painting.

That would've--
She loved Bonnard
and she loved New York.

[ Tomas ]
Do you think Soames
would have liked the film?

Yes, I think
she would have liked--

You would have liked her.

She would be very good.
She'd like being in it.

She'd wanna talk to me.

Soames believed
in my work...

at a time when people were not
terribly interested in it,

or a lot of people
were not interested in it.

And she was always devoted
in that sense.

She thought I was
a very fine photographer...

with an unusual sense
of color.

And she would have liked
the whole thing.

She would have had fun
and enjoyed it.

But she's not here.

It's all my fault.
Her death is my fault.

I killed her.

How did I do it?
I don't know.

But it's my fault.

From time to time, I have
to face the fact that almost
everything is my fault.

[ Chuckling ]

Yes.
Everything is my fault.

I haven't really looked through.

She died in 2002 and I--
The room is there.

I didn't go into it.

Maybe I couldn't
bring myself to alone.

Maybe at times it seemed to me
impossible to deal with.

You put things off sometimes,
which is not a good thing.

The best thing is to dig in
and to get it over with.

There's too much here,
everywhere.

[ Saul ]
Okay.

What is this?

Oh, these are pieces...

that she saved
of packages that I--

Are you getting it?
Mmm.

Very interesting.
Here's another package
to Soames.

Look at it.

It's kind of nice.

I would never know I did that.

[ Tomas ]
Are these packages you gave her?

Yes, that I gave her,
that she saved.

She thinks these are prints.
How wrong, how wrong.

These are not prints,
they are--

There's another package.

Actually they're quite nice.
I have to dust them off.

Oh!

Kind of tears your heart out,
if you know what I mean,
if you have a heart.

If you don't have a heart,
you're very lucky.

Now--

You Know,
there was a time
in Soames's life...

when this particular room...

was not like it is now.

Obviously.

Does my life consist
of constant apologies?

Must I always explain
to people...

that life was not always
like this?

What can I do
with all of this?

[ Tomas ]
What are they?

It's a diary
that Soames kept...

in which she writes
about her cat.

I think she had a period
where she was--
in the '80s--

where she was much more
interested in her cat
than she was in me.

Well, that's the way it was.
What can I do about that?

This needs a whole--

What is in here?

[ Tomas ]
Who's that?

[ Laughs ]

It was probably my--

Soames would occasionally see
something that she thought--

“Puppets with a tale."

I don't know how this works.

Margit will probably
throw it out,

even though I would think
it's rather--

[ Tomas ]
That's rather nice.

It's Soames
as a little girl.

She was, I suspect,
a beautiful little girl.

But the important thing in life
is not what you get,

but what you throw out.

I've enjoyed having books.

I've enjoyed looking
at paintings.

I've enjoyed having someone
in my life...

that I care about
who cares about me.

I attached more importance
to that...

than I did
to the idea of success.

If I had to choose
between being successful...

and not having someone
or having someone,

I'd prefer to have someone
that I cared about...

who cared about me.

I'm a person
who likes to postpone things.

I see no reason
for being in a rush.

When you consider many
of the things that people
treat very seriously,

and you realize
that they don't deserve
to be treated that seriously,

and when you consider
that many of the things that
people think are important...

are not really
terribly important.

And many of the things
that people worry about...

are not really worth
worrying about.

[ Tomas ]
Do you think thinking
about things like that...

delayed you doing your work?

Delayed me?
Yeah.

I wasn't delayed.

What was I supposed to do?

If I didn't do anything more
than my little book,

wouldn't that have been enough?

How much do you
have to do...

to satisfy people
who don't care anyway?

[ Tomas ]
So who should we get to play you
in the story of your life, then?

[ Saul ]
I don't know.
Someone decrepit...

and sort of
disreputable-looking.

[ Tomas ]
Is that how you would describe
yourself now, is it?

Yes,
I'm decrepit,

and I am disorderly-looking,

and I lack the proper
grace and charm needed...

for a story...

ona lost, confused--

[ Chuckling ]

lost, confused... person...

who sometimes used a camera...

with a touch of intelligence,
but not too much.

[ Chuckling ]

I believe--
if I may be old-fashioned--

I believe there's such a thing
as a search for beauty,

a delight in the nice things
in the world.

And I don't think
one should have to
apologize for it.

And I know that
there are people,
for instance,

who don't like Renoir
because everything's
too sugary and sweet.

But I have nothing against...

a view of life
that considers it worthwhile...

to pursue certain
notions of beauty.

I see nothing wrong with that.

I see no reason to apologize.

Some people, I think,
are very attracted...

to what is not very attractive,

what is miserable,
what is wretched,

what is--

I can't remember.

I recently heard someone
talk about the idea...

that happiness
is an absurd ideal.

My brother once told me--

He said,
"You know,
you're crazy, Saul.

You think being happy is
an important thing to pursue."

I'm not sure
what his words were.

He said,
"Life isn't
about being happy.

It's about all kinds
of other things."

[ Saul On Video ]
You have to get a good editor...

because you will go to jail--

[ Chuckling ]

f Saul On Video, Indistinct ]

I think it's gonna be good.
[ Tomas ] Yeah?

If it were
edited properly--
[ Chuckling ]

by avoiding too much
that is serious.