All language subtitles for Lockerbie.The.Bombing.of.Pan.Am.103.S01E03.1080p.WEBRip.x264-BAE_track3_[eng]

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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:25,724 --> 00:00:27,726 >> they called. >> me. 2 00:00:27,728 --> 00:00:29,094 >> me. >> the lebanese texan. I spoke. 3 00:00:29,096 --> 00:00:32,431 >> the lebanese texan. I spoke. >> arabic. First. 4 00:00:32,433 --> 00:00:35,501 >> arabic. First. >> they're 5 00:00:35,668 --> 00:00:36,568 He realities of the intelligence business, 6 00:00:38,738 --> 00:00:41,239 Back in 1980, 7 00:00:41,241 --> 00:00:43,342 When I came on board with the cia. 8 00:00:44,878 --> 00:00:47,479 I was blind. I didn't really know what reality was. 9 00:00:48,582 --> 00:00:50,516 I knew it wasn't hollywood. 10 00:00:55,055 --> 00:00:56,921 If you're trying to protect your country, 11 00:00:57,057 --> 00:00:59,925 You have to play by the rules of the neighborhood. 12 00:01:00,995 --> 00:01:02,461 And those are dirty. 13 00:01:05,666 --> 00:01:08,933 What I know now, if I knew it then, 14 00:01:09,069 --> 00:01:13,138 I would never have joined the intelligence business. 15 00:01:16,343 --> 00:01:17,676 Reporter: Pan am flight 103 crashed 16 00:01:17,777 --> 00:01:19,744 Into the scottish village of lockerbie. 17 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,747 Two hundred and seventy people, most of them americans, dead. 18 00:01:22,883 --> 00:01:25,550 It was the worst terrorist attack on an airline ever. 19 00:01:25,653 --> 00:01:28,553 Reagan: We have no knowledge of how this happened. 20 00:01:29,089 --> 00:01:30,823 We're trying to find out. 21 00:01:31,225 --> 00:01:32,757 Man 1: It was an attack on america. 22 00:01:32,759 --> 00:01:34,158 Man 2: The largest crime scene in history. 23 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,028 Man 3: Two-hundred-thousand pieces of evidence. 24 00:01:36,030 --> 00:01:37,429 Man 4: My daughter hadn't just died in an accident, 25 00:01:37,531 --> 00:01:38,963 But had been brutally murdered. 26 00:01:39,099 --> 00:01:40,298 Man 5: They killed our children. 27 00:01:40,433 --> 00:01:42,701 Man 6: To be lied to for 30 years. 28 00:01:42,836 --> 00:01:44,502 Man 7: I think the us government had an agenda. 29 00:01:44,504 --> 00:01:47,572 Reagan is the biggest terrorist in the world. 30 00:01:47,675 --> 00:01:49,374 Woman 1: If it's up to our government, 31 00:01:49,510 --> 00:01:52,044 We might not ever know the truth. 32 00:01:55,182 --> 00:01:57,983 Man 8: Nothing is what it seems in the lockerbie story. 33 00:02:06,793 --> 00:02:08,793 Woman 2: December 21st, 1988. 34 00:02:09,263 --> 00:02:12,865 So I was, uh, 17 years old, 35 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,268 And my father was coming home from a business trip in london 36 00:02:16,270 --> 00:02:19,337 When his plane, pan am 103, 37 00:02:19,339 --> 00:02:22,140 Exploded over lockerbie, scotland, 38 00:02:22,275 --> 00:02:25,877 Due to a bomb that had been placed on board by terrorists. 39 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,148 This was a terrible tragedy for my family to endure. 40 00:02:30,150 --> 00:02:32,751 It was a life-defining moment, 41 00:02:32,753 --> 00:02:37,289 That would absolutely forever change the person I was. 42 00:02:37,291 --> 00:02:40,425 It really changed the way I saw the world, the way I saw myself. 43 00:02:40,427 --> 00:02:43,428 We found out about the plane crash 44 00:02:43,430 --> 00:02:44,897 Through a breaking news story. 45 00:02:45,032 --> 00:02:48,767 I'm talking, like, tv on in the kitchen, soap opera on, 46 00:02:48,769 --> 00:02:52,771 Newscaster comes on, and my mother hears the news, right? 47 00:02:52,872 --> 00:02:55,107 Reporter 1: 747 down from london to new york. 48 00:02:55,242 --> 00:02:57,442 Reporter 2: There was some type of explosion in midair 49 00:02:57,578 --> 00:02:58,843 And the plane broke into several parts. 50 00:02:58,979 --> 00:03:00,746 Reporter 3:..Lockerbie, scotland. 51 00:03:03,183 --> 00:03:05,784 -There we go. There's... -Oh, my. 52 00:03:05,885 --> 00:03:08,052 I didn't even see these yet. 53 00:03:08,054 --> 00:03:11,657 This is... Frank. Yes. 54 00:03:13,260 --> 00:03:14,927 And, oh, these are old pictures 55 00:03:15,028 --> 00:03:17,996 Of how young we were at one time. 56 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,533 We met at a church dance, 57 00:03:21,668 --> 00:03:24,336 And we ended up being dance partners. 58 00:03:24,471 --> 00:03:28,440 And we dated for almost seven years, and then we were married. 59 00:03:31,011 --> 00:03:34,212 He worked at chase manhattan bank, 60 00:03:34,214 --> 00:03:37,349 And he was serving in london. 61 00:03:37,351 --> 00:03:39,084 He was coming home for christmas. 62 00:03:40,554 --> 00:03:43,621 And he was supposed to come home Wednesday morning, 63 00:03:43,623 --> 00:03:46,558 And they asked him to stay. 64 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,093 And he actually called me. 65 00:03:49,095 --> 00:03:51,630 He said, "would you mind if I came home that night?" 66 00:03:51,765 --> 00:03:54,899 And... I never told him 67 00:03:54,901 --> 00:03:56,901 When he could fly and when he couldn't fly. 68 00:03:56,903 --> 00:03:58,971 I said, "of course, as long as you're coming home." 69 00:03:59,106 --> 00:04:01,306 But he wasn't supposed to be on that plane at the beginning. 70 00:04:07,313 --> 00:04:10,248 We didn't know anything for months and months, you know. 71 00:04:10,250 --> 00:04:13,317 We knew someone put something on the plane, 72 00:04:13,319 --> 00:04:16,989 But we didn't know who, where they came from, why they did it. 73 00:04:17,090 --> 00:04:18,590 When something like this happens, 74 00:04:18,725 --> 00:04:21,526 You want to know the truth. 75 00:04:21,528 --> 00:04:23,395 You want to know what happens. 76 00:04:23,397 --> 00:04:25,063 You want to know who's at fault, 77 00:04:25,065 --> 00:04:27,131 -Who's to blame, all of that. -And why. 78 00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:30,335 Somebody, literally, did this purposely to these people. 79 00:04:39,613 --> 00:04:42,013 Man 9: Based on baggage records, 80 00:04:42,016 --> 00:04:46,218 We determined that it was here in malta 81 00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:48,053 That the suitcase containing the bomb was first planted. 82 00:04:51,691 --> 00:04:53,758 I was with the case for three years, 83 00:04:53,861 --> 00:04:56,695 But assigned to malta for almost two years. 84 00:04:56,830 --> 00:04:58,096 Interviewer: That's a big commitment. 85 00:04:58,098 --> 00:05:00,632 It is a big commitment, 86 00:05:00,767 --> 00:05:03,435 But it's not solved in an hour, with commercial breaks 87 00:05:03,437 --> 00:05:04,936 And things like that. 88 00:05:11,712 --> 00:05:14,913 By 1990, we were all pretty convinced 89 00:05:14,915 --> 00:05:17,783 That libya was behind the pan am 103 bombing. 90 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,355 We had two, main potential suspects. 91 00:05:25,592 --> 00:05:31,129 Lamin fhimah was the libyan arab airlines manager here on malta, 92 00:05:31,264 --> 00:05:36,334 And he owned a travel agency called med tours 93 00:05:36,336 --> 00:05:38,136 Here on the island. 94 00:05:38,271 --> 00:05:41,940 His friend was abdelbaset al-megrahi 95 00:05:42,041 --> 00:05:46,111 Who apparently was an intelligence officer. 96 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,481 Based on the artists' rendition, 97 00:05:49,616 --> 00:05:53,285 Megrahi looked like the person who had bought the clothing 98 00:05:53,287 --> 00:05:56,822 Found in and around the suitcase containing the bomb. 99 00:05:58,625 --> 00:06:02,093 But we needed more evidence, you know. 100 00:06:02,096 --> 00:06:03,795 There's still more work to be done. 101 00:06:09,570 --> 00:06:12,971 Everybody in our government wanted to find out who did this, 102 00:06:12,973 --> 00:06:16,440 And as a result of that, the cia did something, 103 00:06:16,442 --> 00:06:18,176 And I won't say it's never happened, 104 00:06:18,311 --> 00:06:21,379 But I will say it's a rarity. 105 00:06:21,514 --> 00:06:24,816 They offered up one of their sources to the fbi. 106 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:32,157 They had a source in malta - majid giaka. 107 00:06:35,128 --> 00:06:37,795 They said that he was a double agent, 108 00:06:37,797 --> 00:06:39,798 He had worked at the airport, 109 00:06:39,933 --> 00:06:42,134 But he had left and gone back to libya, 110 00:06:42,269 --> 00:06:45,036 And they were trying to find him. 111 00:06:46,940 --> 00:06:49,007 The fbi codename for him was puzzle piece, 112 00:06:49,009 --> 00:06:51,943 Because he became so critical, 113 00:06:51,945 --> 00:06:54,312 He was a piece of the puzzle. 114 00:07:01,287 --> 00:07:02,887 So, he volunteered himself. 115 00:07:02,990 --> 00:07:04,689 We call them "walk-ins". 116 00:07:04,691 --> 00:07:07,025 He walked into the embassy in malta, 117 00:07:07,027 --> 00:07:09,628 Claimed he was affiliated with the libyan intelligence. 118 00:07:12,566 --> 00:07:15,033 He worked for libyan arab airlines. 119 00:07:15,134 --> 00:07:16,434 We knew it was common practice 120 00:07:16,436 --> 00:07:17,569 For the libyan intelligence service 121 00:07:17,704 --> 00:07:19,704 To use libyan arab airlines 122 00:07:19,706 --> 00:07:22,307 As a cover office for their operations. 123 00:07:28,514 --> 00:07:31,583 Phil: This is the old luqa airport. 124 00:07:33,786 --> 00:07:36,521 Investigation determined that it was here 125 00:07:36,657 --> 00:07:39,991 That the bomb bag... 126 00:07:39,993 --> 00:07:44,496 Was actually put on the air malta flight to frankfurt... 127 00:07:46,165 --> 00:07:49,467 ..And then was transferred to the pan am 103 flight 128 00:07:49,469 --> 00:07:52,237 Out of heathrow that blew up over lockerbie. 129 00:07:54,875 --> 00:07:58,810 Puzzle piece was working here at luqa airport 130 00:07:58,945 --> 00:08:00,779 In the luggage area. 131 00:08:03,350 --> 00:08:06,550 The cia started looking at his reporting. 132 00:08:06,552 --> 00:08:10,288 Which was saying that, around December of 1988, 133 00:08:10,423 --> 00:08:12,624 He actually saw 134 00:08:12,626 --> 00:08:18,496 Both fhimah and megrahi coming into this airport here... 135 00:08:18,631 --> 00:08:22,033 ..With a suitcase. 136 00:08:22,035 --> 00:08:26,104 And that double agent became very, very important to us 137 00:08:26,106 --> 00:08:27,205 In the case. 138 00:08:39,419 --> 00:08:42,653 I get a phone call telling me 139 00:08:42,655 --> 00:08:45,189 That cia the found the double agent, majid giaka, 140 00:08:45,191 --> 00:08:47,258 He's on a boat, 141 00:08:47,260 --> 00:08:50,395 And they're bringing him to a us ship of some kind 142 00:08:50,530 --> 00:08:52,230 To be interviewed. 143 00:08:55,835 --> 00:08:59,069 Got on a helicopter, we were flown out 144 00:08:59,071 --> 00:09:04,275 To a ship in the mediterranean, international waters. 145 00:09:05,946 --> 00:09:09,814 And I'm anticipating a very aggressive interview. 146 00:09:11,818 --> 00:09:17,355 But I found him credible, uh, almost to a fault. 147 00:09:17,357 --> 00:09:19,190 He was so honest. 148 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,094 Dick: He tells us he knows megrahi. 149 00:09:24,096 --> 00:09:27,165 Megrahi was in the libyan intelligence service. 150 00:09:28,835 --> 00:09:32,303 He tells us, "I saw fhimah and megrahi 151 00:09:32,305 --> 00:09:36,174 Come to the airport with a suitcase." 152 00:09:36,176 --> 00:09:39,577 Exactly the same as the one that carried the bomb. 153 00:09:40,913 --> 00:09:44,915 He said fhimah, because of his job 154 00:09:45,051 --> 00:09:50,321 Here as the libyan arab airlines manager, 155 00:09:50,323 --> 00:09:54,592 He was able to circumvent customs with that suitcase. 156 00:09:57,597 --> 00:10:03,067 And then he tells us that fhimah kept explosives in his desk. 157 00:10:03,202 --> 00:10:07,138 And, you know, why would an airport security manager 158 00:10:07,274 --> 00:10:09,007 Keep explosives in his desk? 159 00:10:09,009 --> 00:10:12,210 You scratch your head. But he looks at photo spreads 160 00:10:12,212 --> 00:10:16,547 Of various types of explosives and he picks out semtex... 161 00:10:16,683 --> 00:10:18,850 ..The explosive that was used to make the bomb. 162 00:10:21,488 --> 00:10:23,487 That was critical for us. 163 00:10:23,489 --> 00:10:30,428 We had the people who actually personally facilitated 164 00:10:30,563 --> 00:10:31,696 That bomb into the airline system 165 00:10:32,164 --> 00:10:39,671 The people who actually, personally facilitated that bomb 166 00:10:39,673 --> 00:10:41,038 Personally facilitated that bomb into the airline system that 167 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,642 Into the airline system that eventually blew up pan am flight 168 00:10:44,644 --> 00:10:47,945 Eventually blew up pan am flight 103, killing 270 people. We got 169 00:10:47,947 --> 00:10:50,682 103, killing 270 people. We got the criminal indictments against 170 00:10:50,684 --> 00:10:53,417 The criminal indictments against two libyan intelligence agents 171 00:10:53,419 --> 00:10:55,786 Two libyan intelligence agents announced today in washington 172 00:10:55,788 --> 00:10:56,854 Announced today in washington and scotland. 173 00:10:56,856 --> 00:10:58,556 And scotland. >> we charged. 174 00:10:58,558 --> 00:11:00,057 >> we charged. >> two libyan officials acting 175 00:11:00,059 --> 00:11:02,793 >> two libyan officials acting as operatives of the libyan 176 00:11:02,795 --> 00:11:03,861 As operatives of the libyan intelligence service. 177 00:11:03,863 --> 00:11:04,896 Intelligence service. >> megrahi, a. 178 00:11:04,898 --> 00:11:05,997 >> megrahi, a. >> senior officer with libyan 179 00:11:05,999 --> 00:11:07,431 >> senior officer with libyan intelligence, fema, a libyan 180 00:11:07,433 --> 00:11:09,067 Intelligence, fema, a libyan agent and station manager of 181 00:11:09,069 --> 00:11:11,669 Agent and station manager of libyan arab airlines in malta. 182 00:11:11,671 --> 00:11:13,471 Libyan arab airlines in malta. >> finally, something was 183 00:11:13,473 --> 00:11:15,406 >> finally, something was happening because it was very 184 00:11:15,408 --> 00:11:16,908 Happening because it was very difficult to to wait and see and 185 00:11:16,910 --> 00:11:18,676 Difficult to to wait and see and have had everything that 186 00:11:18,678 --> 00:11:21,078 Have had everything that happened without an answer. We 187 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:22,113 Happened without an answer. We were looking for answers. 188 00:11:22,115 --> 00:11:23,481 Were looking for answers. >> okay, there were people that 189 00:11:23,483 --> 00:11:26,484 >> okay, there were people that we can look at and and kind of 190 00:11:26,486 --> 00:11:27,919 We can look at and and kind of say like, why did you do this? 191 00:11:27,921 --> 00:11:29,820 Say like, why did you do this? There's a relief in that 192 00:11:29,822 --> 00:11:31,289 There's a relief in that because you're trying so badly 193 00:11:31,291 --> 00:11:33,124 Because you're trying so badly to put the pieces together. 194 00:11:33,126 --> 00:11:34,992 To put the pieces together. >> that was one of the 195 00:11:34,994 --> 00:11:38,629 >> that was one of the questions, though. Why did you 196 00:11:38,631 --> 00:11:39,664 Questions, though. Why did you do it? 197 00:11:39,666 --> 00:11:40,732 Do it? >> you know. 198 00:11:40,734 --> 00:11:41,832 >> you know. >> you want to know who, what, 199 00:11:41,834 --> 00:11:43,735 >> you want to know who, what, where, when and why of the 200 00:11:43,737 --> 00:11:44,835 Where, when and why of the situation. You know, and keeping 201 00:11:44,837 --> 00:11:48,005 Situation. You know, and keeping in mind that my brother was such 202 00:11:48,007 --> 00:11:58,816 In mind that my brother was such a nonviolent guy. This is a some 203 00:11:58,818 --> 00:12:01,753 A nonviolent guy. This is a some break dancing. That's my brother 204 00:12:01,755 --> 00:12:05,957 Break dancing. That's my brother in the red. And he was. 19 ish. 205 00:12:05,959 --> 00:12:09,761 In the red. And he was. 19 ish. That was only a couple of years 206 00:12:09,763 --> 00:12:12,330 That was only a couple of years before he died. I recall being 207 00:12:12,332 --> 00:12:15,166 Before he died. I recall being afraid that I would forget his 208 00:12:15,168 --> 00:12:18,269 Afraid that I would forget his voice. And, you know, his 209 00:12:18,271 --> 00:12:19,337 Voice. And, you know, his mannerisms and, you know, to a 210 00:12:19,339 --> 00:12:24,175 Mannerisms and, you know, to a certain degree, I have, you 211 00:12:24,177 --> 00:12:27,511 Certain degree, I have, you know, which is really sad. We 212 00:12:27,513 --> 00:12:28,946 Know, which is really sad. We didn't always get along so 213 00:12:28,948 --> 00:12:30,281 Didn't always get along so well. You know, there was an 214 00:12:30,283 --> 00:12:32,617 Well. You know, there was an awful lot of sibling rivalry 215 00:12:32,619 --> 00:12:34,352 Awful lot of sibling rivalry going on. And, and again, being 216 00:12:34,354 --> 00:12:37,054 Going on. And, and again, being that we were so close in age and 217 00:12:37,056 --> 00:12:39,957 That we were so close in age and then we both went to syracuse 218 00:12:39,959 --> 00:12:41,759 Then we both went to syracuse and uh, he was, uh, he was not 219 00:12:41,761 --> 00:12:45,162 And uh, he was, uh, he was not happy that I was going to 220 00:12:45,164 --> 00:12:46,731 Happy that I was going to syracuse. He, he and I had a 221 00:12:46,733 --> 00:12:47,865 Syracuse. He, he and I had a little discussion about it. And, 222 00:12:47,867 --> 00:12:49,066 Little discussion about it. And, uh, you know, I think he said 223 00:12:49,068 --> 00:12:51,502 Uh, you know, I think he said something along the lines of, 224 00:12:51,504 --> 00:12:53,504 Something along the lines of, you know, couldn't you just go 225 00:12:53,506 --> 00:12:57,174 You know, couldn't you just go anywhere else? Anywhere else? 226 00:12:57,176 --> 00:12:59,210 Anywhere else? Anywhere else? You know, the last discussion he 227 00:12:59,212 --> 00:13:02,980 You know, the last discussion he and I had, I was driving him 228 00:13:02,982 --> 00:13:04,915 And I had, I was driving him somewhere for him to catch his 229 00:13:04,917 --> 00:13:08,786 Somewhere for him to catch his flight to the uk. Um, the last 230 00:13:08,788 --> 00:13:09,987 Flight to the uk. Um, the last words we said to each other was 231 00:13:09,989 --> 00:13:11,022 Words we said to each other was something along the lines of, 232 00:13:11,024 --> 00:13:12,923 Something along the lines of, you know, I really hate you, and 233 00:13:12,925 --> 00:13:17,595 You know, I really hate you, and I really hate you too. And, uh, 234 00:13:17,597 --> 00:13:19,363 I really hate you too. And, uh, those were literally the last 235 00:13:19,365 --> 00:13:21,399 Those were literally the last words that we said to one 236 00:13:21,401 --> 00:13:29,407 Words that we said to one another. 237 00:13:29,409 --> 00:13:30,008 Another. >> the relatives of americans 238 00:13:30,209 --> 00:13:35,179 Who died on flight 103 expect their government to take 239 00:13:35,181 --> 00:13:36,214 Their government to take decisive action. 240 00:13:36,216 --> 00:13:37,615 Decisive action. >> it was a military strike 241 00:13:37,617 --> 00:13:39,016 >> it was a military strike against the american flag on pan 242 00:13:39,018 --> 00:13:41,285 Against the american flag on pan am flight 103. And these libyan 243 00:13:41,287 --> 00:13:43,421 Am flight 103. And these libyan intelligence officers were used 244 00:13:43,423 --> 00:13:45,556 Intelligence officers were used as soldiers. 245 00:13:45,558 --> 00:13:46,624 As soldiers. >> abdelbaset al-megrahi is 246 00:13:46,626 --> 00:13:47,659 >> abdelbaset al-megrahi is accused of being the mastermind 247 00:13:47,661 --> 00:13:48,926 Accused of being the mastermind of the pan am 103 bombing, but 248 00:13:48,928 --> 00:13:51,595 Of the pan am 103 bombing, but he vigorously denies it. 249 00:13:51,597 --> 00:13:54,598 He vigorously denies it. >> and 20 of December or 21 or 250 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,133 >> and 20 of December or 21 or at that time, I wasn't there. 251 00:13:56,135 --> 00:13:57,368 At that time, I wasn't there. Believe me, I was here in 252 00:13:57,370 --> 00:13:59,203 Believe me, I was here in tripoli with my family. 253 00:13:59,205 --> 00:14:01,639 Tripoli with my family. >> fema, who also worked for the 254 00:14:01,641 --> 00:14:03,174 >> fema, who also worked for the libyan airline, also denies any 255 00:14:03,176 --> 00:14:04,775 Libyan airline, also denies any role in the bombing. 256 00:14:04,777 --> 00:14:06,444 Role in the bombing. >> we knew it was a waiting 257 00:14:06,446 --> 00:14:08,379 >> we knew it was a waiting game. It was going to be up to 258 00:14:08,381 --> 00:14:11,249 Game. It was going to be up to gaddafi to decide to extradite 259 00:14:11,251 --> 00:14:12,684 Gaddafi to decide to extradite them. So chances are we're not 260 00:14:12,686 --> 00:14:17,054 Them. So chances are we're not going to get anybody to come and 261 00:14:17,056 --> 00:14:18,089 Going to get anybody to come and stand trial. 262 00:14:18,091 --> 00:14:19,156 Stand trial. >> colonel gaddafi took a look 263 00:14:19,158 --> 00:14:20,257 >> colonel gaddafi took a look at pictures of the two libyan 264 00:14:20,259 --> 00:14:22,093 At pictures of the two libyan agents and declared that the men 265 00:14:22,095 --> 00:14:23,661 Agents and declared that the men weren't guilty, even if they 266 00:14:23,663 --> 00:14:26,064 Weren't guilty, even if they were, he said he wouldn't hand 267 00:14:26,066 --> 00:14:27,164 Were, he said he wouldn't hand them over. 268 00:14:27,166 --> 00:14:28,499 Them over. >> there was no indication that 269 00:14:28,501 --> 00:14:29,867 >> there was no indication that libya had any inclination at 270 00:14:29,869 --> 00:14:33,637 Libya had any inclination at that stage in 1991 to give these 271 00:14:33,639 --> 00:14:35,072 That stage in 1991 to give these men up. So it seemed 272 00:14:35,845 --> 00:14:37,846 Patented gel flex grid technology. 273 00:14:37,848 --> 00:14:38,947 Technology. >> do not go to purple. 274 00:14:38,949 --> 00:14:41,450 >> do not go to purple. >> com do not visit a purple 275 00:14:41,452 --> 00:14:48,623 >> com do not visit a purple store. 276 00:14:59,268 --> 00:15:03,138 >> I felt I had a right to know the truth about how my daughter 277 00:15:03,140 --> 00:15:08,643 The truth about how my daughter flora was killed. So following 278 00:15:08,645 --> 00:15:11,746 Flora was killed. So following the naming of the two suspects, 279 00:15:11,748 --> 00:15:13,281 The naming of the two suspects, essentially in the west, it was 280 00:15:13,283 --> 00:15:14,649 Essentially in the west, it was confidently said, of course 281 00:15:14,651 --> 00:15:16,852 Confidently said, of course gadhafi will never hand them 282 00:15:16,854 --> 00:15:19,254 Gadhafi will never hand them over. And that was where the 283 00:15:19,256 --> 00:15:20,489 Over. And that was where the idea dawned in my mind that 284 00:15:20,491 --> 00:15:21,890 Idea dawned in my mind that perhaps I could help go and see 285 00:15:21,892 --> 00:15:25,093 Perhaps I could help go and see him and see if if I could 286 00:15:25,095 --> 00:15:26,628 Him and see if if I could persuade him to allow these two 287 00:15:26,630 --> 00:15:31,032 Persuade him to allow these two to be handed over for trial. 288 00:15:31,034 --> 00:15:33,168 To be handed over for trial. >> gadhafi hadn't got a 289 00:15:33,170 --> 00:15:36,971 >> gadhafi hadn't got a extremely good reputation for 290 00:15:36,973 --> 00:15:41,042 Extremely good reputation for being a good man. And I saw we 291 00:15:41,044 --> 00:15:43,044 Being a good man. And I saw we were worried whether he would 292 00:15:43,046 --> 00:15:49,384 Were worried whether he would come back in one piece. 293 00:15:49,386 --> 00:15:53,688 Come back in one piece. >> todd blanche hamas jump. 294 00:15:53,690 --> 00:15:56,824 >> todd blanche hamas jump. >> back then, libya was a 295 00:15:56,826 --> 00:15:58,560 >> back then, libya was a dictatorship where westerners 296 00:15:58,562 --> 00:16:00,695 Dictatorship where westerners weren't really free to roam 297 00:16:00,697 --> 00:16:02,463 Weren't really free to roam around. I mean, it wasn't deemed 298 00:16:02,465 --> 00:16:07,502 Around. I mean, it wasn't deemed to be a safe place to go. So jim 299 00:16:07,504 --> 00:16:09,270 To be a safe place to go. So jim swire going there to talk to the 300 00:16:09,272 --> 00:16:12,240 Swire going there to talk to the man who was accused of 301 00:16:12,242 --> 00:16:14,242 Man who was accused of orchestrating the lockerbie 302 00:16:14,244 --> 00:16:17,712 Orchestrating the lockerbie bombing, was a big deal. 303 00:16:17,714 --> 00:16:20,114 Bombing, was a big deal. >> gaddafi definitely suffered 304 00:16:20,116 --> 00:16:22,684 >> gaddafi definitely suffered from grandiose delusions. He 305 00:16:22,686 --> 00:16:24,319 From grandiose delusions. He believed that he was he was not 306 00:16:24,321 --> 00:16:29,524 Believed that he was he was not an ordinary man. He was a like a 307 00:16:29,526 --> 00:16:31,226 An ordinary man. He was a like a political messiah. Libya was a 308 00:16:31,228 --> 00:16:33,061 Political messiah. Libya was a country ruled by fear, where 309 00:16:33,063 --> 00:16:35,496 Country ruled by fear, where people could not criticize or 310 00:16:35,498 --> 00:16:41,836 People could not criticize or dare to be against him. 311 00:16:41,838 --> 00:16:43,538 Dare to be against him. >> supported by a arabic 312 00:16:43,540 --> 00:16:46,841 >> supported by a arabic journalist who was from sudan, 313 00:16:46,843 --> 00:16:50,946 Journalist who was from sudan, agreed to accept his help to get 314 00:16:50,948 --> 00:16:52,046 Agreed to accept his help to get gaddafi. 315 00:16:52,048 --> 00:16:53,114 Gaddafi. >> how the hell do you go about 316 00:16:53,116 --> 00:16:54,950 >> how the hell do you go about getting to see colonel gaddafi, 317 00:16:54,952 --> 00:16:56,851 Getting to see colonel gaddafi, the leader of a rogue state? 318 00:16:56,853 --> 00:16:58,253 The leader of a rogue state? >> well, credit where credit is 319 00:16:58,255 --> 00:17:01,122 >> well, credit where credit is due, but he arranged the libyan 320 00:17:01,124 --> 00:17:02,557 Due, but he arranged the libyan end and helped to get libyan 321 00:17:02,559 --> 00:17:06,094 End and helped to get libyan visas to get into libya. 322 00:17:06,096 --> 00:17:07,162 Visas to get into libya. >> a man whose daughter was 323 00:17:07,164 --> 00:17:09,964 >> a man whose daughter was killed in the bombing of pan am 324 00:17:09,966 --> 00:17:11,032 Killed in the bombing of pan am flight 103 is to travel to libya 325 00:17:11,034 --> 00:17:12,767 Flight 103 is to travel to libya this week to try to persuade 326 00:17:12,769 --> 00:17:16,371 This week to try to persuade moammar gadhafi to hand over to 327 00:17:16,373 --> 00:17:17,472 Moammar gadhafi to hand over to libyan agents who have been 328 00:17:17,474 --> 00:17:21,709 Libyan agents who have been accused in the bombing. 329 00:17:21,711 --> 00:17:23,478 Accused in the bombing. >> I still, of course, felt 330 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,713 >> I still, of course, felt extremely nervous about going to 331 00:17:25,715 --> 00:17:27,215 Extremely nervous about going to see gadhafi, who I thought might 332 00:17:27,217 --> 00:17:28,716 See gadhafi, who I thought might either take me prisoner or have 333 00:17:28,718 --> 00:17:37,492 Either take me prisoner or have me shot or something like that. 334 00:17:37,494 --> 00:17:39,894 Me shot or something like that. When I got there. We were parked 335 00:17:39,896 --> 00:17:41,996 When I got there. We were parked in the waiting area in the 336 00:17:41,998 --> 00:17:44,899 In the waiting area in the desert. And then a message came 337 00:17:44,901 --> 00:17:48,136 Desert. And then a message came over his radio saying, okay, 338 00:17:48,138 --> 00:17:52,807 Over his radio saying, okay, now. 339 00:17:52,809 --> 00:17:55,176 Now. >> you're effectively walking 340 00:17:55,178 --> 00:18:01,582 >> you're effectively walking into gadhafi's tent. 341 00:18:01,584 --> 00:18:03,251 Into gadhafi's tent. >> yes. So I went in and I said, 342 00:18:03,253 --> 00:18:05,153 >> yes. So I went in and I said, colonel, I'm very pleased to see 343 00:18:05,155 --> 00:18:08,389 Colonel, I'm very pleased to see you because I want very keen to 344 00:18:08,391 --> 00:18:11,693 You because I want very keen to talk to you. And I had a 345 00:18:11,695 --> 00:18:12,927 Talk to you. And I had a briefcase. And round the edge of 346 00:18:12,929 --> 00:18:18,099 Briefcase. And round the edge of this space was a ring of female 347 00:18:18,101 --> 00:18:20,535 This space was a ring of female soldiers, and each of them had 348 00:18:20,537 --> 00:18:22,370 Soldiers, and each of them had an ak 47. And as I opened the 349 00:18:22,372 --> 00:18:24,239 An ak 47. And as I opened the case, you could hear. Click, 350 00:18:24,241 --> 00:18:26,841 Case, you could hear. Click, click, click, click, click. As 351 00:18:26,843 --> 00:18:29,377 Click, click, click, click. As the safety catches came off. 352 00:18:29,379 --> 00:18:32,180 The safety catches came off. They weren't trusting me. One 353 00:18:32,182 --> 00:18:33,481 They weren't trusting me. One inch. But gaddafi had decided he 354 00:18:33,483 --> 00:18:34,582 Inch. But gaddafi had decided he was going to trust me. And I 355 00:18:34,584 --> 00:18:37,018 Was going to trust me. And I suppose he was brave, he would 356 00:18:37,020 --> 00:18:38,053 Suppose he was brave, he would say, because a lot of people 357 00:18:38,055 --> 00:18:40,254 Say, because a lot of people tried to kill him at one time or 358 00:18:40,256 --> 00:18:46,461 Tried to kill him at one time or another. In the briefcase was a 359 00:18:46,463 --> 00:18:47,562 Another. In the briefcase was a file full of pictures of flora 360 00:18:47,564 --> 00:18:50,198 File full of pictures of flora at various ages. He then asked 361 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:51,666 At various ages. He then asked me why I'd come, and I said to 362 00:18:51,668 --> 00:18:54,569 Me why I'd come, and I said to him, well, look, two of your men 363 00:18:54,571 --> 00:18:56,738 Him, well, look, two of your men have been accused of the 364 00:18:56,740 --> 00:18:57,839 Have been accused of the lockerbie disaster. And I think 365 00:18:57,841 --> 00:18:59,974 Lockerbie disaster. And I think the only way to find out if 366 00:18:59,976 --> 00:19:01,042 The only way to find out if that's true or not is to have 367 00:19:01,044 --> 00:19:02,477 That's true or not is to have them tried in a proper court of 368 00:19:02,479 --> 00:19:03,578 Them tried in a proper court of law. Is there anything you could 369 00:19:03,580 --> 00:19:07,515 Law. Is there anything you could do to ease this situation? 370 00:19:07,517 --> 00:19:10,518 Do to ease this situation? >> kataib hezbollah. 371 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,286 >> kataib hezbollah. >> after about 40 minutes, I 372 00:19:12,288 --> 00:19:15,823 >> after about 40 minutes, I felt that at the time to go. And 373 00:19:15,825 --> 00:19:19,594 Felt that at the time to go. And I took one more thing out of my 374 00:19:19,596 --> 00:19:22,163 I took one more thing out of my briefcase, a little badge, and 375 00:19:22,165 --> 00:19:24,098 Briefcase, a little badge, and it said on it, lockerbie. The 376 00:19:24,100 --> 00:19:26,634 It said on it, lockerbie. The truth must be known. And I 377 00:19:26,636 --> 00:19:28,403 Truth must be known. And I pinned that badge on his lapel. 378 00:19:28,405 --> 00:19:29,904 Pinned that badge on his lapel. And again, you could hear click, 379 00:19:29,906 --> 00:19:33,274 And again, you could hear click, click, click. And when I left 380 00:19:33,276 --> 00:19:34,542 Click, click. And when I left his presence at that time, he 381 00:19:34,544 --> 00:19:35,643 His presence at that time, he was wearing that badge on the 382 00:19:35,645 --> 00:19:36,711 Was wearing that badge on the lapel. I thought it was a good 383 00:19:36,713 --> 00:19:38,747 Lapel. I thought it was a good thing for him to acknowledge. 384 00:19:38,749 --> 00:19:45,186 Thing for him to acknowledge. The truth must be known. 385 00:19:45,188 --> 00:19:46,287 The truth must be known. >> colonel gaddafi insists that 386 00:19:46,289 --> 00:19:47,622 >> colonel gaddafi insists that his government has been unfairly 387 00:19:47,624 --> 00:19:48,923 His government has been unfairly accused. 388 00:19:48,925 --> 00:19:50,024 Accused. >> u.S. And british authorities 389 00:19:50,026 --> 00:19:52,527 >> u.S. And british authorities claim they have a lot of 390 00:19:52,529 --> 00:19:53,561 Claim they have a lot of evidence, including eyewitness 391 00:19:53,563 --> 00:19:54,729 Evidence, including eyewitness identification, that implicates 392 00:19:54,731 --> 00:19:55,797 Identification, that implicates the two men. 393 00:19:55,799 --> 00:19:56,898 The two men. >> well, a number of years went 394 00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:58,466 >> well, a number of years went past before it became clear that 395 00:19:58,468 --> 00:20:00,368 Past before it became clear that the libyans were going to 396 00:20:00,370 --> 00:20:03,271 The libyans were going to surrender them. 397 00:20:03,273 --> 00:20:05,139 Surrender them. >> libya resisted and resisted 398 00:20:05,141 --> 00:20:06,641 >> libya resisted and resisted handing them over for trial. And 399 00:20:06,643 --> 00:20:07,776 Handing them over for trial. And the pressure that was applied to 400 00:20:07,778 --> 00:20:09,811 The pressure that was applied to libya to make this happen was 401 00:20:09,813 --> 00:20:10,912 Libya to make this happen was sanctions. 402 00:20:10,914 --> 00:20:11,946 Sanctions. >> iran and libya sanctions bill 403 00:20:11,948 --> 00:20:14,148 >> iran and libya sanctions bill I signed today will help to deny 404 00:20:14,150 --> 00:20:16,584 I signed today will help to deny those countries the money they 405 00:20:16,586 --> 00:20:19,788 Those countries the money they need to finance international 406 00:20:19,790 --> 00:20:20,888 Need to finance international terrorism. 407 00:20:20,890 --> 00:20:23,124 Terrorism. >> those sanctions had the 408 00:20:23,126 --> 00:20:25,660 >> those sanctions had the libyan population, american 409 00:20:25,662 --> 00:20:26,727 Libyan population, american companies and many european 410 00:20:26,729 --> 00:20:27,762 Companies and many european companies were not allowed to 411 00:20:27,764 --> 00:20:30,932 Companies were not allowed to export anything to libya, 412 00:20:30,934 --> 00:20:32,900 Export anything to libya, including medicines and vital 413 00:20:32,902 --> 00:20:33,535 Including medicines and vital things for human 414 00:20:33,702 --> 00:20:34,569 Suspects shoule surrendered for trial promptly. 415 00:20:43,112 --> 00:20:45,112 Reporter: Tonight does mark the tenth anniversary 416 00:20:45,248 --> 00:20:47,816 Of the disaster that was pan am flight 103. 417 00:20:50,387 --> 00:20:52,053 Reporter 2: Simultaneous memorials today 418 00:20:52,055 --> 00:20:54,189 On both sides of the atlantic. 419 00:20:54,324 --> 00:20:56,457 At a parish church in lockerbie, scotland, 420 00:20:56,559 --> 00:20:58,659 In london's westminster abbey, 421 00:20:58,794 --> 00:21:00,595 At syracuse university, 422 00:21:00,597 --> 00:21:03,598 The campus that lost 35 students to the terrorists. 423 00:21:09,005 --> 00:21:12,540 Our thoughts and prayers today 424 00:21:12,676 --> 00:21:14,742 Are with the families and friends 425 00:21:14,878 --> 00:21:19,547 Of those 270 people from so many countries 426 00:21:19,683 --> 00:21:23,350 Whose lives were tragically taken in the lockerbie bombing 427 00:21:23,352 --> 00:21:25,620 Ten years ago. 428 00:21:26,555 --> 00:21:27,922 Man 10: Turn back the clock. 429 00:21:29,592 --> 00:21:38,165 Let it be seven o'clock on the evening of December 21st, 1988. 430 00:21:38,167 --> 00:21:42,036 The pressures of personal grief have been compounded, 431 00:21:42,171 --> 00:21:46,441 For many, by the frustrations of the fight for answers. 432 00:21:46,576 --> 00:21:50,044 I remember thinking that libya would never turn them over. 433 00:21:50,046 --> 00:21:56,984 We find no answer to the soul-searing question... Why? 434 00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:00,455 Suse: We were not interested in blaming anyone. 435 00:22:01,057 --> 00:22:03,991 We wanted to find the real deal. 436 00:22:03,993 --> 00:22:05,593 And so, if it took time, it took time. 437 00:22:15,104 --> 00:22:16,503 Reporter: The years of diplomatic efforts 438 00:22:16,505 --> 00:22:18,706 Have finally paid off, 439 00:22:18,708 --> 00:22:21,442 With a handover of the two libyan suspects. 440 00:22:21,544 --> 00:22:23,777 It's clear that the sanctions worked, 441 00:22:23,913 --> 00:22:27,648 Because the minute the pair were turned over to custody, 442 00:22:27,783 --> 00:22:30,651 The sanctions were suspended. 443 00:22:30,653 --> 00:22:34,055 Reporter: Abdelbaset al-megrahi and al-amin khalifa fhimah 444 00:22:34,057 --> 00:22:36,691 Are charged with conspiracy and murder. 445 00:22:38,394 --> 00:22:42,596 That was very surprising that they were turned over for trial. 446 00:22:42,732 --> 00:22:45,733 And we were very hopeful at that point 447 00:22:45,868 --> 00:22:49,203 That the truth would come out. 448 00:22:50,806 --> 00:22:53,407 Two libyan suspects to be tried 449 00:22:53,543 --> 00:22:55,943 In a special court in the netherlands, 450 00:22:56,078 --> 00:22:58,345 But under the laws of the nation where the wreckage landed, 451 00:22:58,347 --> 00:23:00,281 The laws of scotland. 452 00:23:01,885 --> 00:23:05,018 Because I'd always an interest in the lockerbie bombing, 453 00:23:05,154 --> 00:23:09,022 I put my hand up and volunteered to cover the lockerbie trial. 454 00:23:09,024 --> 00:23:13,227 The trial is expected to last more than one year. 455 00:23:13,363 --> 00:23:16,430 Almost $20m have been spent 456 00:23:16,566 --> 00:23:19,300 Building the court, prison and media center, 457 00:23:19,302 --> 00:23:23,604 On a tiny patch of dutch soil designated as scotland. 458 00:23:24,741 --> 00:23:27,508 This was going to be a scottish court 459 00:23:27,643 --> 00:23:32,713 Inside a former us airbase inside of the netherlands, 460 00:23:32,848 --> 00:23:35,649 And that area would be declared scottish territory 461 00:23:35,651 --> 00:23:37,718 For the duration of the trial. 462 00:23:37,853 --> 00:23:39,887 So, they were tried under scottish law. 463 00:23:42,458 --> 00:23:46,928 Because scottish judges were trying the case, 464 00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:49,797 My job was to assist 465 00:23:49,932 --> 00:23:52,065 The international press and news agencies 466 00:23:52,201 --> 00:23:54,168 In understanding the trial. 467 00:23:56,205 --> 00:23:57,805 Victoria: There's quite a bit of difference 468 00:23:57,807 --> 00:24:00,273 Between scottish law and american law. 469 00:24:00,275 --> 00:24:04,211 Under scottish law, there is no death penalty, 470 00:24:04,213 --> 00:24:08,149 There's no life imprisonment without parole. 471 00:24:08,151 --> 00:24:10,351 So, we were horrified that this was supposed to be, 472 00:24:10,353 --> 00:24:12,553 You know, the trial of the century 473 00:24:12,688 --> 00:24:16,357 That was going to bring justice to our loved ones. 474 00:24:20,363 --> 00:24:22,696 Jim: We arranged to live in holland 475 00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:24,898 For the duration of the trial. 476 00:24:24,900 --> 00:24:26,767 And call me obsessed or what you like, 477 00:24:26,902 --> 00:24:28,569 I was determined to extract all the information I could 478 00:24:28,671 --> 00:24:30,037 From the trial. 479 00:24:31,907 --> 00:24:33,574 This is why we're here. This is my daughter. 480 00:24:33,709 --> 00:24:36,443 This is theo cohen. She was 20 years old 481 00:24:36,578 --> 00:24:38,979 When she was blown up over lockerbie, scotland 482 00:24:38,982 --> 00:24:41,015 Over 11 years ago. 483 00:24:43,185 --> 00:24:44,385 Reporter: The two libyan defendants arrived 484 00:24:44,387 --> 00:24:45,519 For this landmark trial, 485 00:24:45,655 --> 00:24:47,521 Coming face to face 486 00:24:47,523 --> 00:24:49,390 With the relatives of pan am 103's victims. 487 00:24:51,461 --> 00:24:53,661 You know, there was sort of, for me personally, 488 00:24:53,796 --> 00:24:55,596 Kind of a disconnect. 489 00:24:56,599 --> 00:25:01,535 That these two little guys, sitting there in their robes, 490 00:25:01,537 --> 00:25:04,671 Dressed in holy garb, so to speak, 491 00:25:04,673 --> 00:25:08,843 Could have committed these enormous atrocities. 492 00:25:10,279 --> 00:25:15,282 It was very hard for me to actually connect them 493 00:25:15,417 --> 00:25:17,652 To having murdered my boy. 494 00:25:19,221 --> 00:25:21,689 I'm hoping for peace at the end of it. 495 00:25:21,824 --> 00:25:24,091 That I can finally grieve for my daughter and my grand... 496 00:25:24,093 --> 00:25:25,559 Sorry. 497 00:25:27,030 --> 00:25:30,163 For some of them, it was sort of an emotional release. 498 00:25:30,299 --> 00:25:33,634 They talked about it as a sort of moment of calm, 499 00:25:33,769 --> 00:25:37,038 When they could finally see the accused. 500 00:25:38,107 --> 00:25:42,643 Others were much more angry, and they were angry with these men. 501 00:25:42,778 --> 00:25:44,778 They were convinced, even before the trial, 502 00:25:44,881 --> 00:25:46,713 That they were guilty. 503 00:25:46,715 --> 00:25:49,950 I want them to see my daughter's picture. 504 00:25:52,588 --> 00:25:54,755 I'm gonna say, "this is what you did." 505 00:25:56,392 --> 00:25:59,460 I lost four on that plane, my daughter was pregnant. 506 00:25:59,462 --> 00:26:01,194 I'd like to see them get executed. 507 00:26:01,330 --> 00:26:03,197 I'm sorry, that's how I feel about it. 508 00:26:04,867 --> 00:26:07,801 All of us had been exposed 509 00:26:07,904 --> 00:26:11,071 To the publicity, the negative publicity about libya, 510 00:26:11,074 --> 00:26:14,308 About gaddafi, the mad dog of africa. 511 00:26:15,744 --> 00:26:17,744 There was an assumption 512 00:26:17,746 --> 00:26:20,013 That these two libyans were clearly guilty, 513 00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:22,283 And there must be a lot of evidence against them. 514 00:26:24,287 --> 00:26:28,755 Trials, by their nature, as complicated to cover, 515 00:26:28,757 --> 00:26:30,691 And this was going to be one of the most complicated 516 00:26:30,793 --> 00:26:32,727 In uk history. 517 00:26:36,899 --> 00:26:39,232 A very important witness for the prosecution 518 00:26:39,368 --> 00:26:41,302 Was edwin bollier. 519 00:26:47,042 --> 00:26:50,177 Edwin bollier owned a company called mebo ltd, 520 00:26:50,179 --> 00:26:52,713 Which was in zurich, 521 00:26:52,848 --> 00:26:55,716 Which, according to the prosecution, had manufactured 522 00:26:55,818 --> 00:26:58,319 The timing device that detonated the bomb. 523 00:26:58,788 --> 00:27:03,557 And a fragment of the timing device was found in lockerbie. 524 00:27:07,663 --> 00:27:11,332 This is the one item of evidence 525 00:27:11,334 --> 00:27:14,935 That led the track to libyan intelligence agents 526 00:27:15,070 --> 00:27:18,805 Having a role in the downing of pan am 103. 527 00:27:18,807 --> 00:27:22,810 So, it's where the dots all start to connect together. 528 00:27:28,951 --> 00:27:31,218 He's a westerner, 529 00:27:31,353 --> 00:27:33,286 He is not connected to the libyan government, 530 00:27:33,422 --> 00:27:35,356 Other than through business, 531 00:27:35,358 --> 00:27:37,558 And we assumed that he would get on the stand 532 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,492 And tell the same story 533 00:27:39,494 --> 00:27:41,494 That he told us. 534 00:27:41,964 --> 00:27:44,831 But all of a sudden, he wasn't quite as certain 535 00:27:44,833 --> 00:27:47,868 That his timer blew up pan am 103. 536 00:27:49,071 --> 00:27:51,438 Bollier appeared to recant his previous testimony. 537 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,774 He said different things 538 00:27:53,776 --> 00:27:55,176 To that that'd he'd originally told the police. 539 00:27:55,277 --> 00:27:56,377 He seemed mercurial. 540 00:27:56,512 --> 00:27:58,379 He seemed untrustworthy. 541 00:28:14,263 --> 00:28:17,931 We thought he was going to be a very important part 542 00:28:17,933 --> 00:28:20,533 To find the accused guilty. 543 00:28:20,535 --> 00:28:22,536 And then he comes and switches. 544 00:28:30,746 --> 00:28:33,213 Nic: Edwin bollier would have every reason 545 00:28:33,216 --> 00:28:35,682 To essentially recant what he'd previously said. 546 00:28:35,684 --> 00:28:37,150 Don't forget, muammar gaddafi, 547 00:28:37,286 --> 00:28:38,952 When this court case was going on, 548 00:28:38,954 --> 00:28:41,354 Was a formidable power. 549 00:28:41,356 --> 00:28:43,090 He could reach you. 550 00:28:43,092 --> 00:28:46,093 You could, as a witness, be justifiably scared 551 00:28:46,095 --> 00:28:47,962 Of going against the libyan government. 552 00:28:49,898 --> 00:28:52,900 I now understand why he might have said that. 553 00:28:53,035 --> 00:28:57,571 I should make it clear that I consider the evidence 554 00:28:57,707 --> 00:29:00,107 About pt/35b 555 00:29:00,242 --> 00:29:01,976 To be a falsehood from beginning to end. 556 00:29:03,312 --> 00:29:06,847 There was a lot of doubt about where this was found. 557 00:29:06,982 --> 00:29:09,249 By whom it was found. 558 00:29:09,252 --> 00:29:12,719 It seemed to me quite remarkable 559 00:29:12,854 --> 00:29:17,057 That a very tiny, tiny fragment 560 00:29:17,192 --> 00:29:21,896 Should miraculously be found in the wilds outside lockerbie. 561 00:29:23,733 --> 00:29:25,466 And questions then raised 562 00:29:25,601 --> 00:29:30,170 Over how such a tiny, tiny fragment could be identified. 563 00:29:32,141 --> 00:29:35,008 Interviewer: So, do you think that the scottish police 564 00:29:35,010 --> 00:29:36,911 -Tampered with the evidence? -Yes. 565 00:29:42,351 --> 00:29:43,951 That cracks the prosecution's case right there. 566 00:29:54,562 --> 00:29:57,430 Now, the lockerbie trial has heard crucial evidence 567 00:29:57,432 --> 00:29:59,565 Linking the two libyan accused to the place 568 00:29:59,668 --> 00:30:02,001 Where it's claimed the bomb was originally planted. 569 00:30:03,237 --> 00:30:05,104 Reporter: Fragments of a suit 570 00:30:05,239 --> 00:30:06,439 Recovered from the wreckage of the flight 571 00:30:06,541 --> 00:30:08,808 Were traced back to a clothes shop in malta. 572 00:30:10,044 --> 00:30:13,446 Giving evidence, the shop owner, tony gauci, said 573 00:30:13,581 --> 00:30:15,648 A libyan man resembling megrahi had been in his shop 574 00:30:15,650 --> 00:30:17,717 About a fortnight before christmas, 1988. 575 00:30:22,057 --> 00:30:23,589 Gauci is significant, 576 00:30:23,591 --> 00:30:25,991 Because he is the one who can identify megrahi. 577 00:30:25,993 --> 00:30:30,396 He says megrahi came into his store to buy random clothes 578 00:30:30,532 --> 00:30:33,866 That were packed around the bomb in the suitcase 579 00:30:33,869 --> 00:30:37,136 That was put aboard, ultimately, pan am 103. 580 00:30:37,138 --> 00:30:40,540 He's the witness that fingers megrahi. 581 00:30:43,545 --> 00:30:47,012 Now, out of all of that, the most controversial thing 582 00:30:47,014 --> 00:30:50,683 Was mr gauci's identification. 583 00:30:50,818 --> 00:30:52,385 Where would you like to stand? 584 00:30:53,854 --> 00:30:57,624 It was put up by the scottish police. 585 00:30:59,961 --> 00:31:01,494 Later, it became clear 586 00:31:01,596 --> 00:31:05,498 That tony gauci had actually seen a picture of megrahi 587 00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:08,902 In a magazine, shortly before the line-up. 588 00:31:10,838 --> 00:31:13,038 But also, megrahi, it turned out, 589 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,040 Was the only libyan in the line-up. 590 00:31:15,176 --> 00:31:20,446 So, that's where the prosecutions case weakens again. 591 00:31:20,949 --> 00:31:22,115 Could you all turn round. 592 00:31:23,851 --> 00:31:25,718 Clare: It's ridiculous. 593 00:31:25,853 --> 00:31:30,924 Even with all of that, he doesn't say it's definitely him. 594 00:31:35,130 --> 00:31:38,331 The impression I got 595 00:31:38,333 --> 00:31:41,066 Was that he was under some pressure 596 00:31:41,068 --> 00:31:44,938 To um... Accommodate the police inquiry. 597 00:31:47,074 --> 00:31:48,741 It was quite difficult to establish 598 00:31:48,876 --> 00:31:51,010 Just how many statements this man had given. 599 00:31:51,012 --> 00:31:54,814 But what is clear is that his recollection 600 00:31:54,949 --> 00:31:59,552 Of critical matters varied hugely. 601 00:31:59,554 --> 00:32:00,954 I mean, for example, 602 00:32:01,055 --> 00:32:04,824 The man who'd purchased the maltese clothing 603 00:32:04,925 --> 00:32:08,761 Was described as much older, much bigger. 604 00:32:08,763 --> 00:32:12,898 He had identified other people, quite apart from megrahi. 605 00:32:13,034 --> 00:32:15,634 And the identification of megrahi 606 00:32:15,636 --> 00:32:18,103 Was, I would say, laughable. 607 00:32:18,105 --> 00:32:19,638 It didn't quite deliver, 608 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,842 Because he had changing recollections 609 00:32:22,844 --> 00:32:25,444 Of what the suspect looked like, 610 00:32:25,446 --> 00:32:28,514 That his initial, seemingly positive, identification 611 00:32:28,516 --> 00:32:29,849 Of megrahi, 612 00:32:29,851 --> 00:32:31,985 Then seemed less positive. 613 00:32:32,086 --> 00:32:34,187 He seemed like an unsatisfactory witness 614 00:32:34,322 --> 00:32:35,855 When finally put on the stand. 615 00:32:35,857 --> 00:32:42,127 Tony gauci was a simple, decent businessman, 616 00:32:42,263 --> 00:32:44,797 Eking out a living in this shop. 617 00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:48,201 The police show up in the biggest case 618 00:32:48,203 --> 00:32:51,804 In the history of malta and started asking him questions. 619 00:32:51,806 --> 00:32:54,607 I honestly think he was just a man 620 00:32:54,609 --> 00:32:57,010 That was trying to be honest 621 00:32:57,111 --> 00:32:58,911 And tell the truth to the best of his recollection. 622 00:33:05,152 --> 00:33:08,487 We found out subsequently a lot of things 623 00:33:08,489 --> 00:33:10,623 That weren't known at the time of the trial, 624 00:33:10,625 --> 00:33:13,092 And if they were, would have completely demolished 625 00:33:13,094 --> 00:33:16,229 Any credibility that he had. 626 00:33:16,231 --> 00:33:17,897 Such as him being paid a lot of money 627 00:33:17,998 --> 00:33:20,699 After the trial. 628 00:33:20,701 --> 00:33:24,437 And not only was tony gauci paid money, 629 00:33:24,572 --> 00:33:27,773 But his brother, paul gauci, was also paid money. 630 00:33:27,876 --> 00:33:30,375 One of the pieces of evidence that emerged later, 631 00:33:30,377 --> 00:33:33,246 That wasn't presented in court, 632 00:33:33,381 --> 00:33:37,583 Was from notes from a scottish police officer, 633 00:33:37,585 --> 00:33:41,987 Where tony gauci said that he wanted some form of compensation 634 00:33:42,123 --> 00:33:44,123 For his information. 635 00:33:44,258 --> 00:33:47,726 Which... Is not outwith the practice 636 00:33:47,728 --> 00:33:51,664 Of the us department of justice to do that. 637 00:33:51,766 --> 00:33:54,333 And I believe that an fbi agent said, 638 00:33:54,335 --> 00:33:57,070 "we can get some money to help re-locate him 639 00:33:57,205 --> 00:34:00,940 After the court case was over, for his safety and protection." 640 00:34:01,676 --> 00:34:05,144 We didn't know what the threat to tony gauci was. 641 00:34:05,947 --> 00:34:07,813 Interviewer: How much money are we talking here? 642 00:34:07,815 --> 00:34:09,949 They got millions. 643 00:34:09,951 --> 00:34:11,884 I think a million dollars. 644 00:34:12,019 --> 00:34:13,286 Two million dollars, I think, for tony gauci, 645 00:34:13,421 --> 00:34:15,554 A million for paul. 646 00:34:15,556 --> 00:34:17,957 He was never called as a witness, 647 00:34:17,959 --> 00:34:20,826 So what was he getting one million dollars for? 648 00:34:20,828 --> 00:34:23,262 He didn't say anything at the trial. 649 00:34:24,431 --> 00:34:26,299 You can't have people being paid. 650 00:34:27,635 --> 00:34:32,271 It is totally contrary to the interests of justice. 651 00:34:39,780 --> 00:34:42,515 The trial period was a very difficult one for me 652 00:34:42,650 --> 00:34:44,984 Because at the beginning of it, I still believed 653 00:34:45,085 --> 00:34:46,251 That our government had been telling us the truth 654 00:34:46,387 --> 00:34:48,020 As best they knew it. 655 00:34:49,924 --> 00:34:52,858 But the lack of credible evidence 656 00:34:52,860 --> 00:34:55,661 Was what converted me to realizing 657 00:34:55,663 --> 00:34:58,464 That the intelligence services of britain and america 658 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,500 Had other things in mind than truth and justice. 659 00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:08,407 Reporter: In one of these cars 660 00:35:08,409 --> 00:35:10,876 Is a witness from libya who could decide the outcome 661 00:35:10,979 --> 00:35:13,412 Of britain's biggest murder trial. 662 00:35:13,414 --> 00:35:16,949 Abdul majid was once a libyan secret agent 663 00:35:16,951 --> 00:35:18,751 And now fears that his former libyan colleagues 664 00:35:18,753 --> 00:35:19,585 Want to kill him. 665 00:35:21,756 --> 00:35:23,956 Phil: The double agent, who we called puzzle piece, 666 00:35:23,958 --> 00:35:26,058 Was willing to testify. 667 00:35:27,695 --> 00:35:32,331 You know, that was the real, you know, crux of that trial. 668 00:35:33,635 --> 00:35:35,835 There was some critical questions. 669 00:35:35,970 --> 00:35:39,839 "did you see, with your own eyes, 670 00:35:39,974 --> 00:35:44,243 Those two suspects, al-megrahi and fhimah, 671 00:35:44,378 --> 00:35:47,913 Bring in the bag containing the bomb 672 00:35:47,915 --> 00:35:50,650 That brought down pan am flight 103?" 673 00:36:01,061 --> 00:36:03,729 Two libyans are on trial at a court set up in the netherlands, 674 00:36:03,864 --> 00:36:05,731 They have always insisted they are innocent. 675 00:36:05,733 --> 00:36:07,733 The prosecution has hung much of its case 676 00:36:07,868 --> 00:36:11,070 On the man who was on the stand today. 677 00:36:11,739 --> 00:36:13,873 Reporter: Abdul majid giaka is the super-grass 678 00:36:14,008 --> 00:36:16,542 Billed as the lockerbie-trial star witness. 679 00:36:16,677 --> 00:36:19,344 He had presented to himself to the cia 680 00:36:19,479 --> 00:36:21,613 As working for libyan intelligence. 681 00:36:21,749 --> 00:36:25,016 So, this is somebody who would seem to be able 682 00:36:25,018 --> 00:36:28,487 To put the finger on the culpability 683 00:36:28,489 --> 00:36:30,756 Of megrahi and fhimah in this. 684 00:36:31,692 --> 00:36:33,292 Reporter: From behind a screen, 685 00:36:33,394 --> 00:36:35,427 With his voice disguised electronically, 686 00:36:35,429 --> 00:36:37,562 Abdul majid told the court 687 00:36:37,564 --> 00:36:40,232 How libyan intelligence planned the bombing. 688 00:36:40,368 --> 00:36:42,834 Reporter 2: He told the court he'd seen explosives 689 00:36:42,836 --> 00:36:44,970 In the desk drawer of one of the defendants, 690 00:36:44,972 --> 00:36:48,107 And he had seen both defendants with a brown suitcase. 691 00:36:48,242 --> 00:36:51,042 Reporter 3: Abdul majid claimed that before the bombing 692 00:36:51,044 --> 00:36:53,912 He passed all this on to his cia handlers. 693 00:36:54,148 --> 00:36:56,248 He never mentioned to us 694 00:36:56,384 --> 00:37:00,652 Anything about any knowledge at all about the pan am bombing. 695 00:37:00,788 --> 00:37:02,154 And we were handling him. 696 00:37:03,791 --> 00:37:06,725 He was asked that question. He knew nothing about it. 697 00:37:09,130 --> 00:37:13,732 All I know is that I spent a lot of time with him initially. 698 00:37:13,867 --> 00:37:16,267 And I'm a skeptical kind of guy, you know, 699 00:37:16,269 --> 00:37:18,670 Until proven otherwise. 700 00:37:18,672 --> 00:37:23,074 I found him just... Honest. 701 00:37:23,210 --> 00:37:25,677 Um... 702 00:37:25,813 --> 00:37:28,480 I wouldn't believe he would tell a lie about nothing. 703 00:37:28,616 --> 00:37:29,815 I think that he changed the story. 704 00:37:29,950 --> 00:37:32,083 He was looking for more money. 705 00:37:32,085 --> 00:37:34,686 He was looking for possible resettlement. 706 00:37:34,688 --> 00:37:37,088 He would have told us if he knew anything. 707 00:37:37,224 --> 00:37:39,624 Doesn't make logical sense that he would hide it then, 708 00:37:39,626 --> 00:37:41,927 But all of a sudden, later, know everything. 709 00:37:43,097 --> 00:37:45,030 I think he was a manipulator and a shyster. 710 00:37:47,100 --> 00:37:51,102 I certainly have never had any reason to question his honesty. 711 00:37:51,104 --> 00:37:54,506 Everything that he said, we were able to substantiate. 712 00:37:56,109 --> 00:37:59,178 John: The fbi are primarily cops. 713 00:37:59,313 --> 00:38:02,514 And you get this guy walking in, a former cia agent, 714 00:38:02,516 --> 00:38:04,383 Who has initially claimed to be 715 00:38:04,385 --> 00:38:06,585 A true libyan intelligence officer, 716 00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:07,586 They grabbed him immediately. 717 00:38:07,721 --> 00:38:09,321 This can make their case. 718 00:38:09,457 --> 00:38:11,357 This will make the fbi look good. 719 00:38:12,593 --> 00:38:14,459 The fbi and the cia have a history 720 00:38:14,594 --> 00:38:15,995 Of not getting along with each other. 721 00:38:16,130 --> 00:38:17,696 They don't trust each other. 722 00:38:20,668 --> 00:38:21,867 Reporter: The former double agent 723 00:38:22,002 --> 00:38:24,670 Is not facing cross-examination by a defense 724 00:38:24,805 --> 00:38:26,872 Seeking to undermine the credibility 725 00:38:27,007 --> 00:38:30,475 Of a man who stands to collect a $4m reward 726 00:38:30,477 --> 00:38:33,612 If the two suspects are convicted. 727 00:38:34,214 --> 00:38:36,948 Eddie: He was such a dreadful witness. 728 00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:39,684 He actually did a lot more good for the defense 729 00:38:39,686 --> 00:38:42,087 Than you could ever imagine. 730 00:38:42,222 --> 00:38:44,556 He'd gone from knowing nothing about lockerbie, 731 00:38:44,692 --> 00:38:47,893 To later giving evidence to the fbi 732 00:38:48,028 --> 00:38:50,762 That he had seen both fhimah and megrahi 733 00:38:50,764 --> 00:38:53,498 With a brown samsonite suitcase, 734 00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:57,035 Going through the airport the day before the bombing. 735 00:38:57,137 --> 00:38:59,838 They'd gone through, avoiding any security checks. 736 00:38:59,973 --> 00:39:02,641 I mean, this was dynamite if it were true. 737 00:39:02,776 --> 00:39:04,910 But clearly it was not true. 738 00:39:04,912 --> 00:39:07,579 It's been something he had invented, 739 00:39:07,581 --> 00:39:09,581 Perhaps encouraged to invent later. 740 00:39:09,583 --> 00:39:12,584 This is bs. This is... 741 00:39:12,586 --> 00:39:15,186 ..The government, you know, manipulating the evidence 742 00:39:15,289 --> 00:39:17,656 To get whatever outcome that they wanted. 743 00:39:17,658 --> 00:39:21,860 Even giaka didn't try to incriminate fhimah, 744 00:39:21,862 --> 00:39:25,264 In terms of being a member of the intelligence service. 745 00:39:25,399 --> 00:39:29,668 And that, in my view, was a very clear signal to anyone, 746 00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:31,870 Including the judges, 747 00:39:32,005 --> 00:39:35,974 That this case against fhimah was dreadful. 748 00:39:37,744 --> 00:39:40,279 Nic: Another flawed witness for the prosecution. 749 00:39:40,414 --> 00:39:43,014 His testimony doesn't stand up. 750 00:39:43,016 --> 00:39:46,485 He's seen as something as a walter mitty. 751 00:39:46,587 --> 00:39:48,019 Somebody who says they're something 752 00:39:48,021 --> 00:39:50,021 That they're actually not. 753 00:39:50,157 --> 00:39:53,325 So, his evidence is, therefore, much less credible. 754 00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:58,497 Victoria: It was confusing for us 755 00:39:58,499 --> 00:40:00,299 To understand what was going on. 756 00:40:00,434 --> 00:40:03,302 This person is being put on as an expert witness, or... 757 00:40:03,304 --> 00:40:08,307 I mean, to us, it was quite a sham. 758 00:40:11,612 --> 00:40:14,513 Reporter: The day long-awaited by lockerbie investigators 759 00:40:14,515 --> 00:40:16,982 And victims' families is at hand. 760 00:40:16,984 --> 00:40:19,785 Reporter 2: The court that has heard 84 days 761 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,786 And three million words of evidence 762 00:40:21,788 --> 00:40:23,922 Is ready for the final day 763 00:40:23,924 --> 00:40:26,858 Of britain's biggest mass murder trial. 764 00:40:26,994 --> 00:40:28,927 This is another part of the healing. 765 00:40:29,062 --> 00:40:31,930 You know, it's still, you know, his murderers. 766 00:40:31,932 --> 00:40:34,666 Right? It's still the people 767 00:40:34,802 --> 00:40:36,201 That committed this horrendous crime. 768 00:40:36,336 --> 00:40:41,072 So, there is that sense of, like, wanting to kind of see... 769 00:40:41,074 --> 00:40:44,276 You just never stop wanting justice to somehow be served. 770 00:40:49,082 --> 00:40:51,149 It wasn't until near the end of the trial 771 00:40:51,251 --> 00:40:53,885 That I realized I could not continue 772 00:40:54,021 --> 00:40:58,357 To believe that there was a cogent body of evidence 773 00:40:58,359 --> 00:41:01,794 That justified the finding of either of these two men guilty. 774 00:41:06,634 --> 00:41:10,435 I've never really been a big conspiracy theorist 775 00:41:10,570 --> 00:41:12,171 To being with. 776 00:41:12,306 --> 00:41:16,241 But I believe that the... 777 00:41:16,376 --> 00:41:20,679 ..The libyans were responsible for the bombing. 778 00:41:24,051 --> 00:41:26,084 John: I never believed that libya did it. 779 00:41:27,655 --> 00:41:30,989 Our government and us presidents have hated gaddafi 780 00:41:31,124 --> 00:41:33,826 Since he took over in 1969. 781 00:41:35,295 --> 00:41:38,430 He kicked all of the american oil companies out of libya. 782 00:41:39,799 --> 00:41:43,001 He confiscated our biggest airbase anywhere in the world. 783 00:41:44,705 --> 00:41:46,905 I think the us government had an agenda. 66894

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