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1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,440
The computer system Post Office
spent an arm and a leg on is faulty.
2
00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,360
Oh, my God, it's just doubled
right in front of my eyes.
3
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:09,320
I haven't got that money.
4
00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:11,280
The Horizon system
was working properly.
5
00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,720
The losses must have been caused
by Mr Castleton's own error.
6
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,440
How many other subpostmasters
have you found?
7
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,560
Six. Who will go on the record?
8
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,040
I'm thinking set up a meeting,
send out invitations,
9
00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:24,200
see if anyone turns up.
10
00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,800
The Post Office told us
you're the only one.
11
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:29,040
That was a lie.
12
00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:30,000
From this moment forwards,
13
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,200
From this moment forwards,
14
00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:36,200
none of us
will be the only one ever again.
15
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,080
I just think you've made a mistake,
Sam.
16
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:00,000
I know, but they said if I pleaded
guilty, I could have the shop back.
17
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,040
I know, but they said if I pleaded
guilty, I could have the shop back.
18
00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,600
How is that ever gonna work?
19
00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,000
You'll be a convicted criminal.
20
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:14,440
Look, I'm your husband, and I have
to read about this in the newspaper.
21
00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,000
Was on my own in the interview.
22
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,080
I thought I was doing
the right thing.
23
00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,200
Jas, please.
You're an innocent woman.
24
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,800
You should've pleaded not guilty
like we agreed.
25
00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,480
Come on. We're gonna be late.
26
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,360
ENGINE REVS
They'll have started without us.
27
00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,200
It was unbelievable.
28
00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,120
The lowest day of my life.
29
00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,800
Uh, hi.
30
00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,440
Uh... sorry we're late.
31
00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,200
Um, got a bit lost. Sorry.
32
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:00,000
Are you... Is this...?
33
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,600
Are you... Is this...?
34
00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,120
We're all former subpostmasters.
Come in. It's OK.
35
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,120
Please, uh... find a seat.
36
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,960
Uh, I'm Jaz Singh.
37
00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,040
I'm Sam, from Walsall.
Yeah, Walsall.
38
00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,200
Well, we're all sharing our stories,
er...
39
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,640
I don't know if you want to...
WHISPERING: Go on. Go on.
40
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,000
I had no problems till they sent us
a new Horizon PIN pad.
41
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:30,280
I had no problems till they sent us
a new Horizon PIN pad.
42
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:36,200
They just won't have it that there's
something wrong with the thing.
43
00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:37,720
They say I'm piggybacking -
44
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,000
going into the till
to pay out a pension with one hand,
45
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:41,520
and paying myself with the other.
46
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,560
I'm guessing they also said you were
the only ones having these problems.
47
00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,000
And I'm guessing they said the same
48
00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,600
to everyone else in this room,
right?
49
00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,760
I'm such a fool, I believed them.
50
00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,440
I believed them when they said,
51
00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,520
"Just confess
you took that £5,000, Sam,
52
00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,320
"and you'll be back in your shop
tomorrow."
53
00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:58,960
You shouldn't have done that.
54
00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:00,000
It was the new PIN pad.
It wasn't your fault.
55
00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,480
It was the new PIN pad.
It wasn't your fault.
56
00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,560
It was.... It wasn't her fault.
57
00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,560
Actually, I pleaded guilty too.
58
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:08,800
So did I.
59
00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,920
You did? I can't believe it.
60
00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:16,080
I-I-I thought we were on our own,
you know.
61
00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:17,960
Not any more.
62
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,000
I'm a mother.
I don't want to go to prison.
63
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,280
Look. We're changing your plea, OK?
64
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:24,800
Not guilty.
65
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,360
And this time,
I'm coming to court with you.
66
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,320
Hey.
67
00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:30,000
Now, if you're thinking of going
to court, just be careful.
68
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,240
Now, if you're thinking of going
to court, just be careful.
69
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,200
Well, there are people here
who've done time.
70
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,920
We've all lost our businesses
and our savings.
71
00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:49,000
The question is,
what are we going to do about it?
72
00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,440
MPs, neither use nor ornament.
73
00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:55,880
Stop it.
74
00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,200
Be nice. At least he's taken
the trouble to turn up.
75
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,480
Um... Mrs Hamilton?
That's me.
76
00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:06,960
James Arbuthnot.
77
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:08,360
Thank you for coming.
78
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,160
My pleasure.
Do come in.
79
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:11,920
Jo's mum.
Hello.
80
00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,160
So, one way or another,
81
00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,000
we're all fighting back
every way we can.
82
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,520
We're even thinking
about suing the Post Office.
83
00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,800
I'd like to see you try,
with no money.
84
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,760
Well, good job talking to your MP
costs absolutely nothing.
85
00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:28,560
Is this homemade?
It looks delicious.
86
00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,000
Thank you, I will.
87
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,720
Thank you, I will.
88
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,200
We thought maybe you could talk
to the government or something.
89
00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,120
Yes, indeed.
90
00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,840
There are two other cases
in my constituency alone.
91
00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:41,560
Wow. Really?
92
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:42,720
It's very odd, isn't it?
93
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,320
I mean, the Post Office
is a national institution.
94
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,360
You think you could trust them
to listen to their own people.
95
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,720
Personally, Mr Arbuthnot...
James, please.
96
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,960
..I wouldn't trust them
as far as I could throw them.
97
00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,000
I'm going to ask
around the House,
98
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:00,240
I'm going to ask
around the House,
99
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,280
see how many members
are hearing similar stories,
100
00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:07,320
make an approach to Post Office
management at the highest level.
101
00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,800
I think I feel a campaign coming on.
102
00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,400
Oh, that's lovely.
103
00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:23,080
And so my client, Mrs Kaur,
104
00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,480
seeks permission to change her plea
to not guilty.
105
00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,840
This is because she had
no solicitor with her
106
00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:30,000
during her interview under caution,
107
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:31,080
during her interview under caution,
108
00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,560
and because there is also
a technical issue
109
00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,480
which you may consider requires
expert evidence
110
00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,480
concerning a PIN pad.
111
00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:40,640
I can't see anything here.
112
00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,360
Her PIN pad was faulty.
Quiet, please.
113
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,960
Very well, Mrs Kaur,
I vacate your plea.
114
00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,440
How do you now plead?
115
00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:55,280
Not guilty.
116
00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,120
Is that him?
The so-called trade unionist.
117
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:13,720
He's got a bloody nerve.
118
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,120
Federation man.
119
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,640
A federation man
who calls out of nowhere.
120
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:20,720
How do we know we can trust him?
121
00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,480
We don't.
122
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,000
Michael.
Hi, Alan.
123
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,160
Michael.
Hi, Alan.
124
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,320
Found us, then?
Yeah.
125
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:34,880
Never even heard of Fenny Compton.
126
00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,320
MURMURING
127
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,720
All right, everyone,
shall we make a start?
128
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,000
Shall we make a start? Thanks.
129
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,400
Right.
130
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,120
So, welcome to the second meeting
131
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,160
of the Justice For Subpostmasters
Alliance.
132
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,760
Now, before we get on
to our campaign update,
133
00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,000
we have a guest
who'd like permission to speak.
134
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,880
we have a guest
who'd like permission to speak.
135
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,760
This is Michael Rudkin, friends,
136
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,440
an executive officer of the National
Federation For Subpostmasters.
137
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,040
DISGRUNTLED MURMURING
138
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:15,360
Not any more.
139
00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,760
The federation sent me back
my membership fee,
140
00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,120
said they wouldn't represent me.
141
00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,320
They told me to get
a good criminal lawyer.
142
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,160
And that was the last I heard
of them.
143
00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,200
My so-called union has been in bed
with the Post Office for years.
144
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,840
I can either leave
by the way I came in
145
00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,000
or I can tell you my story.
146
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:30,600
or I can tell you my story.
147
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,400
Up to you, pal.
148
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,040
You think you're the little guys,
149
00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,280
facing up to one powerful enemy?
You're wrong.
150
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,800
Post Office don't make
the computers, do they?
151
00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,360
No, they don't... design the kit.
152
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,520
They don't write the software,
they don't run the network.
153
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:53,520
That's Fujitsu.
154
00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,840
Multinational corporation.
Headquarters in Bracknell.
155
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:00,000
I've been there.
I've seen what they can do.
156
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,560
I've been there.
I've seen what they can do.
157
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,720
Two years ago, I got myself
an invitation to Fujitsu
158
00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,240
to sort out the issue with
the foreign exchange stock control
159
00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:09,880
that we were all
having problems with.
160
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,920
Er, Michael Rudkin,
to see George Delph.
161
00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:15,560
Thanks, mate.
162
00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,200
'19th of August 2008.'
163
00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,640
Cheers. Thanks, mate.
Mr Rudkin.
164
00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,080
George Delph, hi.
165
00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,400
Hi. Good to meet you.
And you.
166
00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,000
Welcome to Fujitsu.
Cheers.
167
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,000
Welcome to Fujitsu.
Cheers.
168
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,840
If you'd like to follow me.
169
00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,520
Horizon is the largest IT system
in Europe.
170
00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,640
We're very proud of that.
Outside the military, that is.
171
00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,200
Cost a billion pounds.
172
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,320
We've rolled out 40,000 terminals
to your members.
173
00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,960
So this accounts for all
the James Bond stuff, does it?
174
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,000
'All I'm expecting is he'll give me
a bit of training I can pass on.'
175
00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:00,000
All right.
State-of-the-art everything.
176
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,600
All right.
State-of-the-art everything.
177
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,000
That must be why a lot of my members
have been complaining
178
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,560
about your rubbish
foreign exchange stock control.
179
00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:10,080
DELPH SCOFFS
We can help.
180
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:11,880
A lot of my members
been losing money.
181
00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,280
Oh, the bottom line!
Me included.
182
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,880
Meet your friendly
covert operations team.
183
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,640
I get in there, and this guy sits
me down at a Horizon terminal.
184
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,440
So, easiest way to help
is if I just show you
185
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,000
how to adjust your stock control
manually.
186
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,440
how to adjust your stock control
manually.
187
00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,160
And I said to him, "Is this live?"
188
00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,720
Sure. Look at the clock.
189
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,240
So, if I start by adjusting this
from sterling to euros.
190
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,560
'And I said to him...'
191
00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:49,280
You're inside
some subpostmaster's Horizon,
192
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:50,440
and he doesn't know.
193
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,280
He said, "yeah".
194
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,840
"Yeah, I am."
MURMURING
195
00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,000
How else am I gonna show you
how to do this?
196
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:00,320
How else am I gonna show you
how to do this?
197
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,040
'And then,
right in front of my eyes,
198
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,440
'he starts changing
the subpostmaster's figures.'
199
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:07,480
Excuse me.
200
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,600
I've been telling my members
for years
201
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,160
no-one else has access
to their branch accounts.
202
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,040
Uh, OK. Well, um...
203
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,320
I'd better put the figures
back the way they were, then,
204
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:19,680
or they won't balance tonight.
205
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,160
'Ladies and gentlemen,
you know what this means.'
206
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,960
It means they can sneak in
behind your back,
207
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,560
change your figures,
bugger off and leave with no trace.
208
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,240
It's remote access.
209
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,440
Well, makes sense.
210
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,680
It's how they send updates
and bug-fixes.
211
00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:51,760
No, no. No, the help line.
They said that...
212
00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,120
They said that was impossible.
213
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,240
They said the branch accounts
were totally secure.
214
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:56,280
That's what they told me.
215
00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:57,920
They lied.
216
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:00,000
JO: But if they're getting
into our accounts
217
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,760
JO: But if they're getting
into our accounts
218
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,400
and messing about in there...
219
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,240
Then it's a bit rich
for them to claim
220
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,720
that we have 100% responsibility
when money goes missing.
221
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,360
Exactly.
MURMURS OF AGREEMENT
222
00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,320
So, I drive home from Fujitsu.
223
00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:18,520
The next morning, I wake up,
224
00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,720
and my wife is stood
at the foot of our bed...
225
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,840
and there's an auditor beside her.
226
00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:30,000
"Your Post Office is now
£44,000 in deficit," says he.
227
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:35,800
"Your Post Office is now
£44,000 in deficit," says he.
228
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,080
MURMURING
229
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,760
Coincidence?
230
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,480
Revenge.
231
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,080
My wife ran the Post Office when
I was away on federation business.
232
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,720
So, although I was
the subpostmaster...
233
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,600
..my poor wife...
234
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,280
..is now a convicted criminal.
235
00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:57,760
MURMURING AND GASPS
236
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,120
You're welcome.
237
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:11,920
JO: Wait.
238
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,320
Mr Rudkin, thank you.
239
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,080
Thank you.
240
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,440
UNDER BREATH:
Yeah, it won't do any good.
241
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,040
AGITATED MURMURS
242
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,160
So they punished him.
243
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,840
They punished him
for standing up to 'em.
244
00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,440
It's what they did to me.
245
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,280
They knew I had to fight them,
246
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,760
but they knew
I didn't stand a chance.
247
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,720
They just did it
to teach me a lesson,
248
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,160
to teach everyone
in this room a lesson.
249
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,840
That's what we're up against.
THAT is what we're up against.
250
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,040
The Post Office
are still investigating,
251
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,960
so it's going to take
a bit longer than we thought
252
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,480
as it's now 36 charges.
253
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,600
How many?
36 charges.
254
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,040
No, no, no, that's totally wrong.
255
00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:21,920
I've got the indictment right here,
Jas.
256
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:23,960
It's definitely now 36 charges.
257
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,760
But... it was 19.
258
00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,520
Where have all these new ones
come from?
259
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:30,000
Sam?
I don't know, I don't remember.
260
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,240
Sam?
I don't know, I don't remember.
261
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,640
And what about this - her shortfall?
262
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,520
It's now 11,000.
That's more than doubled.
263
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,440
You're selling everyone stamps
with a picture of the Queen on them.
264
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,520
We love the Queen, don't we?
265
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,760
Is she all right?
Yeah, yeah. Just...
266
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,120
All these delays,
they're doing both our heads in.
267
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:57,400
Jas, I think we should get
a medical report.
268
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,000
When cases go on and on like this,
it can be hard for the defendant.
269
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,040
When cases go on and on like this,
it can be hard for the defendant.
270
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,000
She's fine.
271
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,200
I'll just go and see
if they're ready for us.
272
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,080
Everyone's eyes are on me.
273
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:28,920
It's OK.
274
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,040
PHONE RINGS
275
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,720
JAS: Sam, can you get the phone?
276
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:49,320
Hello?
277
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,680
Oh, it's Jo.
278
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,720
Gosh, you had me worried there.
I'm just checking in on you.
279
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,840
'Are you OK?'
280
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,000
I'm up and down.
281
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,120
I'm up and down.
282
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,720
Are you getting out at all?
283
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,520
Oh, I can't go out.
284
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,960
Not to the gurdwara,
not even to the supermarket.
285
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,000
I see people I know, and sometimes,
they look surprised to see me,
286
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,320
and I wonder...
287
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,960
..do they think
I've gone to prison already?
288
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,760
Oh, Sam... if I just had the money
for a stupid train ticket.
289
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,880
CHUCKLES
I wouldn't be much fun for you, Jo.
290
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,200
THUD
Oh, God!
291
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:29,480
Sam, what is it?
292
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:30,000
It's OK, it's OK.
I'm all right, Jo.
293
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,720
It's OK, it's OK.
I'm all right, Jo.
294
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,320
It's just the postman.
295
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,640
Every time the door goes...
296
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,040
I think it's them, come to get me.
297
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,200
Oh.
298
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,680
'Oh, you poor thing.'
299
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,120
Yeah, I'd no idea this
was happening to other people.
300
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:57,520
I thought I was the only one.
301
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,000
There were nights I was just
sobbing, didn't know what to do,
302
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:00,520
There were nights I was just
sobbing, didn't know what to do,
303
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,520
how to get out of this mess.
304
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,520
It sounds like
it was very traumatic for you.
305
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,680
Well, it's not just me
that it's traumatic for.
306
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,200
'I just think that the Post Office
needs to investigate this.
307
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,840
'There's just got
to be something else going on,
308
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,920
'cos it can't be happening
to this many people.'
309
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,240
Jo was great.
ALAN CHUCKLES
310
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:19,640
She's a natural.
311
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,880
Yeah, but who's listening?
312
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,040
How concerned are you about these
allegations against the Post Office?
313
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,320
'I'm very concerned about this.
314
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,400
'Cases seem to be cropping up
all over the country.'
315
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:30,000
And who knew
a Tory MP could be so nice?
316
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,760
And who knew
a Tory MP could be so nice?
317
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,280
'The Post Office have been,
I think, pretty hard-nosed
318
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,200
'in the way they've taken
the cases to court.'
319
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,880
Trouble is,
nobody watches local news.
320
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,360
'And I think their bosses need
to think again
321
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,120
'and be more sympathetic.'
322
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,080
PAULA VENNELLS: Be ready.
323
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:17,320
'There are a tiny number
of ex-subpostmasters
324
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,640
'who appear to be making
distinct allegations
325
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,560
'with respect to the operation
of the Horizon system.'
326
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,480
But in two of the cases,
327
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,880
the individuals have in the past
pleaded guilty to false accounting.
328
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,000
I have written back
to the Member of Parliament,
329
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,040
I have written back
to the Member of Parliament,
330
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,240
making clear
that Post Office Limited
331
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,560
does not accept
any of the allegations
332
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,240
that are being made
333
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,280
and will robustly
defend its position
334
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,000
if any civil action is mounted
against it.
335
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,200
ALAN: Freedom of information.
336
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:49,880
Just when you think
you've cracked it,
337
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,560
they come up with a new trick
to keep us in the dark.
338
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:53,600
Listen to this.
339
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,800
You're only allowed a question,
340
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,480
to ask a question,
341
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,000
that will take one person
less than 18 hours to research.
342
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,680
that will take one person
less than 18 hours to research.
343
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,840
I mean, what?
344
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,640
What do you think?
345
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,160
Hey.
346
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:13,880
Trying to have a life here, Alan.
347
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:24,920
I...
348
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,000
I just want to be able to...
take you on holiday again, Suzanne.
349
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,320
I just want to be able to...
take you on holiday again, Suzanne.
350
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,640
A proper holiday abroad.
351
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,840
Not just... camping.
352
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:45,720
And still half of Snowdonia
waiting to be climbed.
353
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:53,360
A, the Post Office has taken
all our money.
354
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:57,400
B, my knees are way too old
for Snowdon now.
355
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,000
And, C, you can't possibly
go on holiday.
356
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,040
And, C, you can't possibly
go on holiday.
357
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,800
You're too busy campaigning,
morning, noon and night.
358
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,040
This is all taking too long.
359
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:16,560
'My next guest is famous
for pranking the nation
360
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,680
'with hidden camera comedy shows
like Trigger Happy...'
361
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,040
FRONT DOOR OPENS
362
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:30,000
Hiya. You OK? Sorry I'm late.
363
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,960
Hiya. You OK? Sorry I'm late.
364
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,480
SHE GASPS
365
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:36,880
SHE SHUDDERS
366
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,160
Got held up, so...
367
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:44,840
It's OK.
Sam.
368
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,920
Sammy, what...? What have you...?
369
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:50,120
Sam!
370
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:51,720
It's OK.
371
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,200
It's OK.
Sam, what have you done?
372
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,920
Why have you done this? Huh?
It's not fair.
373
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,520
Sam, look at me. What...?
PHONE BUTTONS BEEP
374
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,000
I had to do something.
375
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:00,120
I had to do something.
376
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:01,480
'999.'
I had to do something.
377
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,240
I need an ambulance, please.
378
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,200
45 Falfield Road, Walsall.
379
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,160
UNDER BREATH: It's not fair.
WS2 9WB.
380
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:09,680
B for Bravo.
It's not fair.
381
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:22,760
I don't want to do it.
They're here to help you.
382
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,520
SOBBING: I tried everything.
Ssh.
383
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,800
I tried everything, Jas,
I tried everything. I know.
384
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,000
I know, it's OK, I'm here.
385
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,800
I know, it's OK, I'm here.
386
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,320
Hey, can you stop staring at us?
Just mind your own business!
387
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,560
Sam, come on. It's OK, Sam.
388
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,160
What's the next one?
Candy.
389
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,320
Candy, OK. See if you can find it.
390
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,880
He's doing well. Yeah, he'll
be doing the spelling bee soon.
391
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,040
HE CHUCKLES
Eh?
392
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,320
KNOCK ON DOOR
393
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,560
Hello. Mr Singh?
394
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,000
Yeah, yeah.
Can I have a word?
395
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,160
Yeah, yeah.
Can I have a word?
396
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,600
Yeah. Um, two minutes
and then burgers. OK?
397
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,520
NURSE: Hey, how are you doing?
398
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,360
'I want to stress she'll be sedated,
she won't feel anything.'
399
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:17,560
ECT had a lot of bad press
at one point,
400
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,040
but we continue to find it
very useful in giving relief
401
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,600
to patients as severely depressed
as Saman.
402
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:29,440
And nothing else we've tried
has worked, so...
403
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,320
Just don't go home and Google it,
Mr Singh.
404
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,280
We'll talk more later.
Yeah.
405
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,520
Like you're not gonna Google it.
406
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,640
'I know. It's mad.'
407
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,000
But you know the worst thing, Jo?
408
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,160
If I'd have let her carry on
pleading guilty, like she wanted to
409
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,640
in the first place...
410
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,960
all right, yeah, she-she might have
gone to prison, but....
411
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,440
..she'd be out by now.
412
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,320
Oh, Jas.
413
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,520
My boy would have a mother.
414
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:26,960
And Sam would be free.
415
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,000
BEEPING
416
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:30,120
BEEPING
417
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,240
WOMAN: Treat.
418
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,000
PAULA VENNELLS: The problem
is relatively very small.
419
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:00,520
PAULA VENNELLS: The problem
is relatively very small.
420
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,040
Very few complaints.
421
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:06,120
But this is a very serious matter
for the Post Office,
422
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:10,040
whose business rests on our
reputation for being trustworthy.
423
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,480
Well, we all represent
constituents who tell us
424
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,560
that your helpline
is of little value,
425
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,560
that the training you offer
is minimal.
426
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,520
Angela is our
Head of Network Services.
427
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:23,920
Thank you. Um...
428
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,840
Well, the helpline
and support are there.
429
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,000
Now, whether staff take it up
or not, that's another matter.
430
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,960
Now, whether staff take it up
or not, that's another matter.
431
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,520
Mrs Vennells,
is the Post Office saying
432
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,360
that Horizon is 100% foolproof?
433
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:42,680
Because that would make it
the first perfect software system
434
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,520
ever implemented by government.
435
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,760
The system is robust.
436
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,400
Gentlemen, we have nothing to hide.
437
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,280
Indeed, we're ready to mount
and fund an independent review.
438
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,440
Well, that's marvellous,
and I'm sure Mr Bates
439
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,000
and the Justice For
Subpostmasters Alliance
440
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:00,720
and the Justice For
Subpostmasters Alliance
441
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,280
will be thrilled
to get involved with that.
442
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,520
Bet you've missed me, Susan.
443
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,160
How is life in the sleepy
old Post Office? Sleepy?
444
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,440
I wish.
High finance misses you, kid.
445
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,880
I'm a proud public servant now.
446
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,000
Well, I'd wager it's not half
as much fun as your old life.
447
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:30,440
Well, I'd wager it's not half
as much fun as your old life.
448
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,600
Chasing down villains
and fraudsters with me.
449
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,440
Susan.
450
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,440
Is that what we're doing here?
I don't know.
451
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:41,960
That's why I hired you.
452
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,920
Ah. Angela Van Den Bogerd
is Head of Network Services.
453
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,160
Bob Rutherford from Second Sight.
Angela, nice to meet you.
454
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:56,120
Here to help.
455
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,960
We've pulled a dozen files
for you to look at,
456
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,000
all the cases
the MPs have been pushing.
457
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,240
all the cases
the MPs have been pushing.
458
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,880
Anything else you want, though,
we can provide.
459
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,440
Accounts, procedures, backgrounds,
I'll draw up a list.
460
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,880
And I'd like to visit Fujitsu
in Bracknell.
461
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,640
No problem.
462
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,040
Oh, are you not staying?
463
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,520
Knowing you of old, Bob, I imagine
you're itching to get on the road.
464
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,000
Thank you, all.
465
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,680
JO: 'Alan, you can't go
and meet him on your own.
466
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,400
'Because how will you know
what to ask this investigator?
467
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:30,000
'And because she's my neighbour,
and she's really nice,
468
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,280
'And because she's my neighbour,
and she's really nice,
469
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,960
'and she wants to help.'
470
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,160
"Kay Linnell,
Past Master and Liveryman."
471
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,920
'Kay Linnell, forensic accountant.
472
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,120
'Alan, bite her hand off!'
473
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:44,480
Alan?
474
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,440
Alan Bates?
ALAN CHUCKLES
475
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:53,600
Kay Linnell,
Past Master and Liveryman
476
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,440
of the Worshipful Company
of Arbitrators.
477
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,160
You've been looking me up.
478
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,000
And Board of the Inland Revenue's
former Chief Prosecuting
479
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,400
And Board of the Inland Revenue's
former Chief Prosecuting
480
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,200
and Investigating Accountant.
481
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,920
Now, that was a fun job.
HE CHUCKLES
482
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,440
Shall we?
483
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,080
May I underline that,
484
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,160
although the Post Office
has agreed to fund
485
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,280
this independent investigation,
486
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,680
Mr Rutherford's organisation,
Second Sight,
487
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,960
will be working for us, the MPs,
488
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,360
and therefore, indirectly, for you,
489
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:25,560
Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance.
490
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:26,920
So...
491
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,000
Alan, Kay,
what would you like to know?
492
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:30,480
Alan, Kay,
what would you like to know?
493
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,200
Well, I'd like to know
494
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,880
exactly what makes you think
you're qualified to do this job.
495
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,720
Well, I'm a forensic accountant
of many years' experience.
496
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,120
I don't doubt your paper
qualifications, Mr Rutherford.
497
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:44,960
I have them here in front of me.
498
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,160
But I see nothing to persuade me
499
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,120
that Second Sight
is remotely capable
500
00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:53,360
of producing
a truly independent report.
501
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:55,960
One that's ready
to bite the hand that feeds you.
502
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,320
Bob Rutherford is a member
of the Association
503
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,000
of Certified Fraud Examiners.
504
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:00,320
of Certified Fraud Examiners.
505
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,960
He has led hundreds
of investigations all over the world
506
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,720
into banking fraud, corruption,
rogue traders, subprime mortgages.
507
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,760
Doesn't answer my question.
508
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,080
How can we be sure
you will investigate fairly
509
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:13,520
and independently?
510
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,800
Because the people
who suggested me know me of old,
511
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:21,200
and they want to hire me because
they know what I like to do best,
512
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,880
which is to clear innocent people
who look guilty.
513
00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:28,080
I still don't see
how we can trust him
514
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,000
when he's taking Post Office money.
515
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:30,320
when he's taking Post Office money.
516
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,440
Well, you can't pay him.
Can't pay you either.
517
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,360
I'll help in my spare time.
518
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:38,440
What I really need is lawyers
who'll work for nothing.
519
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:39,880
KAY CHUCKLES
520
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,000
One day, you'll find
your precious lawyers
521
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,200
and we'll get this scandal
into court.
522
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,600
But we'll need evidence
which mortals like us haven't a hope
523
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,240
of getting our hands on.
524
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,840
But Bob's outfit, Second Sight...
525
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,320
they'll have access
to seven years of raw data.
526
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,000
This Bob...
527
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:00,320
This Bob...
528
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,280
he can't just look
at individual cases, though.
529
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,960
He has to look at Horizon
as a whole, as a system.
530
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,720
Am I to take it you're happy
to support his investigation?
531
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,760
Well, being as it's the only one
we've got...
532
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,080
JO: When I first came
to the Post Office,
533
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,000
they were introducing chip and PIN,
and it never worked properly.
534
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,000
they were introducing chip and PIN,
and it never worked properly.
535
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:36,720
The base unit,
the Horizon computer...
536
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,320
whatever you call it,
537
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,360
the thing that sits
under the counter,
538
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,640
I thought of it
as like an alien thing.
539
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,320
Sometimes, engineers
would come from Fujitsu,
540
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,040
with their clever badges on,
541
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,560
and I never had any idea
what they were doing.
542
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,280
This is probably
a really stupid question, Bob.
543
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:00,000
There are no such things
as stupid questions,
544
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,360
There are no such things
as stupid questions,
545
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,040
only stupid answers.
546
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,800
That £36,000
I'm supposed to have lost...
547
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,360
..where did it go?
548
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,440
I haven't got it.
549
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:16,840
So who has?
550
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,320
I don't know...
551
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,560
but I'm going to find out.
552
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,680
MICHAEL RUDKIN:
It's a bed-and-breakfast now.
553
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,440
We're private people, Bob.
554
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,760
This was our family home.
555
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,080
But the Post office gave us
no option.
556
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,200
No other way of making a living.
557
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,440
Thank you.
558
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,000
Cheers, love.
559
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:00,000
My wife has had it
so much harder than me.
560
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,360
My wife has had it
so much harder than me.
561
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,800
Susan was in charge while I was
away on federation business.
562
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,760
She never told me, so I had no idea
she was in trouble.
563
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,680
Even though at least half
my work in federation
564
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:17,960
was Horizon-related by then.
565
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,920
I said to her...
566
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,640
.."You've ruined my fucking career.
567
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,400
"You've destroyed our business."
568
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,400
Mr Rudkin, please don't feel obliged
to divul... I said...
569
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,040
WEAKLY: I said I'd divorce her.
570
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,480
Now, they punished my wife...
571
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,280
who never stole a penny piece...
572
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:49,800
just because I got inside Fujitsu
573
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,080
and saw something
that I shouldn't have.
574
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,000
LEE: I think
what I had was a computer bug.
575
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,160
LEE: I think
what I had was a computer bug.
576
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,520
I think it was called
a Callendar Square Bug.
577
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,760
I can't be sure.
578
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,960
But it was real.
579
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,800
It was real. Other people had it.
580
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,760
Yeah, I tried...
I tried to tell the court that,
581
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,560
and I just kept
sort of saying it wrong.
582
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,400
And the more I tried, the more I...
583
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,000
I can't explain it.
584
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:30,320
I can't explain it.
585
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,280
Well, it was like...
586
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,920
I was on the edge of...
587
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,000
a great, dark hole.
588
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,520
I was...
I was just falling into it.
589
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,160
The thing is,
I knew that they were lying,
590
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,760
and I knew I was telling the truth.
591
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,400
And I just thought,
"This is British justice.
592
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:00,000
"That's all I've got to do,
is tell the truth."
593
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,440
"That's all I've got to do,
is tell the truth."
594
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,240
Oh.
595
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,800
Sorry.
Oh, no, no, no. God, no!
596
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,080
I don't wanna upset you,
I was just trying to tell you...
597
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,240
No...
HE CHUCKLES
598
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,400
No, it's just,
the more of you people I meet,
599
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,800
the less I... know
how you're all still standing.
600
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,880
BOB SNIFFS
Yeah.
601
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,000
Susan.
Am I expecting you today?
602
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:30,640
Susan.
Am I expecting you today?
603
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,400
We need to speak now.
604
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,920
Always good to see an old friend,
but I do have a diary.
605
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,200
Not today, you don't.
606
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:41,840
Lee Castleton.
607
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,560
You know, the one you hounded
608
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,360
all the way to the Royal Courts
of Justice?
609
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,080
That was my predecessor.
When you knew he had no money.
610
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,200
You have humiliated him,
611
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,240
you have bankrupted him,
and I don't get it.
612
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,440
Yes. I don't know why we did that.
613
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,000
Well, let me suggest two reasons.
One, you're stupid.
614
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:00,080
Well, let me suggest two reasons.
One, you're stupid.
615
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,000
Or, two, you want to rub his nose
in the dirt,
616
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,200
use him
to frighten off everyone else.
617
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,480
I wasn't even here then.
618
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,640
Oh, please.
What is wrong with you people?
619
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,560
Are we ever to see the PIN pad
620
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,240
that Mrs Kaur alleges was
responsible for her shortfalls?
621
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,080
Your Honour, I can now confirm
622
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,200
that Post Office Limited is unable
to produce the PIN pad in question.
623
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,880
Because...? I'm told
it was sent away for repair
624
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,280
and has been reprogrammed.
625
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,000
So it WAS faulty?
626
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:30,880
So it WAS faulty?
627
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,800
In those circumstances, Your Honour,
the prosecution offers no evidence.
628
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,560
This matter has dragged on
for three years.
629
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,320
I direct that a not-guilty verdict
be entered
630
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,800
on all 36 counts on the indictment.
631
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,120
Mrs Kaur, you're free to leave.
632
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,520
CLERK: Court rise.
633
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,000
WHISPERING: Congratulations.
634
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:00,640
WHISPERING: Congratulations.
635
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,280
Hey. See?
636
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,760
You were right. It was faulty.
637
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,760
Sam, three years of our lives,
but it's over now, OK? No.
638
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,760
Because they won't ever put another
picture in the paper, will they,
639
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,600
to say I'm innocent?
640
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,600
Come on.
641
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,160
ARBUTHNOT: We're making progress.
642
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,480
Now the investigation
is properly up and running,
643
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,000
I just thought, enough go-betweens.
644
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:30,480
I just thought, enough go-betweens.
645
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,640
What a good idea
to bring you two together.
646
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,600
I do hope it's been useful
for both of you.
647
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,280
Terrific idea. Thank you, James.
648
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,360
And, Alan, I do hope
you'll take away from this
649
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,600
a sure understanding
that Post Office
650
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,680
is as fully committed as you are
to resolving this situation.
651
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,520
Thank you.
652
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,640
And, erm....
if there's anything else?
653
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,480
Uh, no, I...
Actually...
654
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,000
Er...
655
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,000
Why are you only looking
at 12 cases?
656
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:00,520
Why are you only looking
at 12 cases?
657
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:05,760
Well, they are the 12 cases put
forward by Members of Parliament.
658
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,280
All the cases where we are alert
659
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,240
to the possibility
of miscarriage of justice.
660
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:13,520
There are a lot more, though, Paula.
661
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,440
Victims who were never charged
with any criminal offence.
662
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,320
But perhaps your people
haven't told you about that.
663
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,880
About all the destitution -
people sleeping in their cars,
664
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,480
losing their house, their health.
665
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,000
Surely you'd like to hear
from them, too?
666
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:30,040
Surely you'd like to hear
from them, too?
667
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,320
SCOFFS
668
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,400
Is that your throwaway exit line?
669
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,280
ALAN CHUCKLES
670
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,240
I was just thinking, you know,
if you knew the full story,
671
00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,040
you wouldn't want that
on your conscience.
672
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:46,640
So...
673
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,720
Well, shall I suggest a few names?
674
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:53,400
STUTTERS
675
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,880
Yes, erm...
676
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,720
Good idea.
677
00:35:57,720 --> 00:35:59,040
These are what I have here.
678
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,200
PHONE RINGS
679
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,440
Bob, good to hear from you.
BOB RUTHERFORD: 'Hi there.'
680
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,920
The day you went to Fujitsu...
681
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,080
are you sure it was
the 19th of August?
682
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,280
Uh, 2008, yeah.
683
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,800
Never forget that -
last day of our old life.
684
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,600
Michael, you're not down
as a visitor on their security logs.
685
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,560
Post Office are denying
that your visit ever happened.
686
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,000
Course they are.
'Can you prove it?'
687
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:30,400
Course they are.
'Can you prove it?'
688
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,480
Michael,
can you prove you were there?
689
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,600
Bob, it was four years ago.
690
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,520
'I don't work for the Post Office
any more.'
691
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:00,000
Look at your new best friend
pretending she can do a proper job.
692
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,440
Look at your new best friend
pretending she can do a proper job.
693
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,680
PAULA, ON TV: 'It's lovely
to be here. Thank you.'
694
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,480
INTERVIEWER: 'Paula, how often do
you get to visit a place like this?'
695
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,320
'Probably once a month if I can.'
696
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,480
Oh, please!
697
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,800
'And what reaction do you get?
I mean, you're the big boss.
698
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,560
'Do they get intimidated?
'No.
699
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,680
'This is the Post Office.
700
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,840
'I get treated the same
as everybody else,
701
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,160
'and they tell me how it is.'
702
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,680
'And what's it like being the
chief executive of a major company?'
703
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,240
'Well, I think you can tell
by the smile on my face
704
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:30,000
'that it's... it's great.
705
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:30,440
'that it's... it's great.
706
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,080
'Retail is detail...'
Shut up.
707
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,360
Shut up, you silly cow.
TV SWITCHES OFF
708
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,880
Come on.
Come and get your breakfast.
709
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,600
BOB RUTHERFORD:
I shall present evidence to show
710
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,040
that the Post Office
has made failures in support,
711
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,720
investigation, training,
712
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:52,080
and I found clear evidence
of two bugs.
713
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,120
Two?
714
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,720
We gave you 47 cases. 47!
715
00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:00,000
And this draft report
of yours only mentions three.
716
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,080
And this draft report
of yours only mentions three.
717
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:02,840
Where's Michael Rudkin,
718
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,920
who can prove they're lying
about remote access?
719
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,760
He can't prove it, actually.
720
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,280
Well, Members of Parliament
721
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,760
would certainly like to see
more individual cases. Oh!
722
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,160
Look, the point
is not individual cases.
723
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,960
The point is total systemic failure,
which you don't mention.
724
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,360
Well, we haven't found
hard evidence of that, either.
725
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,720
Well, what would you call
the endless PIN pad anomalies
726
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:26,920
and shortfalls doubling
before people's eyes
727
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,600
and overnight so-called corrections?
728
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:30,000
Well, there are 68,000 users,
729
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,520
Well, there are 68,000 users,
730
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,000
processing six million transactions
a day.
731
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,440
Well, this is just the gospel
according to the Post Office.
732
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,200
Alan. For it to be systemic,
that would have to mean
733
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,560
that the whole network was affected.
and it just isn't.
734
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,440
What about the way they abuse
their power and prosecute people
735
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:46,880
without investigating properly?
736
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,760
And then... And then terminate them
on three months' notice
737
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,440
and walk away
with their life savings?
738
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,480
Is that not a systemic failure?
739
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:56,840
We all agreed from the beginning
740
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,160
that the report should be accurate
and evidence-based.
741
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,000
The Post Office has left
a trail of destruction
742
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,560
The Post Office has left
a trail of destruction
743
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,280
ever since the day
that Horizon was introduced,
744
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,600
and we're just sitting around
chatting about it
745
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,480
while they're still ruining lives...
746
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:10,680
systemically.
747
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,680
ALAN SIGHS
I agreed to this.
748
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,680
I must've been mad.
749
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,400
Welshmen with bees in their bonnets.
750
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,240
I was born in Liverpool.
751
00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:26,320
He's an accountant, Alan.
He's naturally cautious.
752
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,520
Cautious like you?
I can be cautious.
753
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:30,000
Wasn't me in there
banging the table.
754
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,840
Wasn't me in there
banging the table.
755
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,920
I've never seen you angry before.
756
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,040
All that grandstanding,
you mean?
757
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,800
I learnt that from you, Kay.
KAY CHUCKLES
758
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,640
Ah, I don't get angry,
I just get frustrated.
759
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,640
Second Sight are going to have to
760
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,800
come up with something better
than this.
761
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,440
PHONE RINGS
762
00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:03,400
MICHAEL: 'Bob, how's it going?'
763
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,040
BOB: Michael. Good. Um... any luck?
764
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,760
It's been a long time.
A lot of water under the bridge.
765
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:11,240
Yes, OK.
766
00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:12,720
'I understand.'
767
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:15,240
But, uh... see attached.
768
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:30,000
Oh, my fucking good God.
769
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,400
Oh, my fucking good God.
770
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,400
Michael, thank you.
771
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,680
'Thank you so much.'
772
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,240
So, Bob, I can confirm
that in August 2008,
773
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:50,720
the basement of Fujitsu's building
in Bracknell
774
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:53,600
did contain
a Horizon test environment.
775
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,840
Note, a TEST environment.
776
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,000
And that's what we believe
your subpostmaster Mr Rudkin saw.
777
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:00,680
And that's what we believe
your subpostmaster Mr Rudkin saw.
778
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,040
He got the wrong end of the stick.
779
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,440
The test environment
wasn't physically connected
780
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,360
to the live Horizon system,
so... it wasn't possible
781
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,400
for the transactions
he thought he saw to be real.
782
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,400
Got it. Thank you.
783
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,640
That's cleared that up.
Good.
784
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,200
I'll see you out.
785
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,240
Thank you for joining me
by conference call.
786
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:30,000
I'm sorry for the short notice
in keeping the board updated.
787
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,360
I'm sorry for the short notice
in keeping the board updated.
788
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,440
The Horizon review interim report
789
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,920
will be presented to MPs
in one week's time.
790
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,280
The report has found
no systemic issues
791
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,440
with the Horizon computer system,
but I am concerned
792
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:50,520
that the report from
the independent forensic accountant
793
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,720
is not as factual as expected...
794
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,360
..and could lead to loose language.
795
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,680
ALAN: What are you?
Poacher-turned-gamekeeper?
796
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:12,640
This report of yours turns out
to be not half-bad, considering.
797
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,000
CHUCKLING: Faint praise. I like it.
798
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,040
Oh, I just hope
it makes a difference.
799
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,840
What got Michael Rudkin
into the final version?
800
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,640
Hm.
An email inviting him to Bracknell,
801
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,920
copied to seven
named Post office executives.
802
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,000
Hold on.
803
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:30,040
Hold on.
804
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,120
So, first, they say he wasn't there,
805
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,360
then they say he was there.
806
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,760
But, what, his glasses were broken?
BOB CHUCKLES
807
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,960
I wonder if they even know
they're talking bollocks.
808
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,280
Welcome on board, Bob.
809
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:47,720
Yeah, they still say that there's
no remote access into your accounts.
810
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:50,720
I'm sorry, but I don't think
I'm going to be able to prove
811
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:53,160
that they're wrong and that
you're right on this one. Ah.
812
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,960
But, Alan, there are things in...
813
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,880
documents that I found
in the Post Office files.
814
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:00,000
Beyond belief.
Going to tell me more?
815
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,720
Beyond belief.
Going to tell me more?
816
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,280
Someone else I need to tell first.
817
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,000
Wow! Good morning.
Good morning, Mr Frog.
818
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,040
BOY: There he is!
There he is.
819
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,120
Let's say good morning.
Hello, all.
820
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,760
Bob, we're baby-sitting
in the sunshine.
821
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,880
Isn't he gorgeous?
CHUCKLES
822
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,200
I was hoping you'd be sitting
somewhere quiet.
823
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:24,600
Yeah, I can do that,
or I can put the kettle on.
824
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,960
Oh, me and Joshua
will put the kettle on.
825
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,960
Your investigator, Ryan Fleming.
826
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,040
The toad?
827
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,360
Did you ever see
his report about you?
828
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:40,280
No.
829
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,000
The 17th of May, 2006,
830
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,720
he recorded that he had analysed
your Horizon accounts
831
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:52,360
and was unable to find
any evidence of theft.
832
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,320
I pleaded guilty
to false accounting instead. Mm.
833
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,000
Yes. No evidence means they had
no right to charge you with theft,
834
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,720
Yes. No evidence means they had
no right to charge you with theft,
835
00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:04,760
and therefore no right
to plea-bargain you down
836
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:06,440
to false accounting.
837
00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:12,280
Jo, no evidence means they had no
right to take you to court at all.
838
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,520
Everything I've gone through.
839
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,080
Everything I've lost.
840
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:35,920
FORCEFULLY: Ten... years...
841
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,240
..of heartache...
842
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:41,720
and sleepless nights...
843
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,840
and always skint.
844
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:50,560
Er, they destroyed our whole life
for a lie?
845
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,400
What kind of people are they?
846
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:00,000
NEWS REPORT:
'The Second Sight report
847
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,360
NEWS REPORT:
'The Second Sight report
848
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,240
'presented to MPs
in Westminster today
849
00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:07,480
'was expected to include criticism
of the Horizon computer system
850
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,920
'and of the senior management
of the Post Office.
851
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:14,000
'But while the report does raise
concerns about unreliable hardware
852
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,240
'and poor training,
a Post Office spokesman said
853
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:19,880
'the investigation clearly shows
its Horizon system as a whole
854
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,560
'is operating as it should.
855
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:22,920
'MPs praised the Post Office
856
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,080
'for the way they've dealt
with these difficult issues.'
857
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,560
PHONE RINGS
858
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,120
Alan Bates.
859
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,840
Alan, it's Paula Vennells.
860
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,120
Paula.
861
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:54,000
UNDER BREATH: Joking...
862
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,400
So, I was thinking...
863
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:00,000
..where do we go from here?
864
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:00,960
..where do we go from here?
865
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,880
Well, um...
866
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,320
I've been thinking about that, too.
867
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,080
Well, great. Should the two of us
try and find a way forward?
868
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,960
If you want something done properly,
do it yourself.
869
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:18,800
Exactly.
870
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,760
Well...
871
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,600
How can I help?
872
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,000
# God knows what is hiding
873
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,280
# God knows what is hiding
874
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,040
# In those weak and drunken hearts
875
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,880
# Guess he kissed the girls
And made them cry
876
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,880
# Those hard-faced queens
Of misadventure
877
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:48,720
# People help the people
878
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:51,240
# And if you're homesick
879
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:54,240
# Give me your hand
And I'll hold it. #
880
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,560
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