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My name is James Kendrick Judkins.
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I've been processing visas since 1978,
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which is a long time.
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Most of the people we bring into the country
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come in on an H-2B visa, and what it is,
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it's a temporary, seasonal,
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nonagricultural visa.
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Sometimes it gets frustrating,
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because you'll have workers going to a show,
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and they'll be working at the show,
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and somebody will come up to them and refer to them
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as a wetback or an illegal or whatever.
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And it's frustrating for them, because, you know,
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they could have made the choice
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to try to come in illegally and work,
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and the employer could have made the choice
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to not go through all these steps
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and pay these... This money,
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and hire illegals.
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But both the employer and the worker made the choice
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to follow the system.
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When I was going to college,
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I had a friend that wanted to be a circus juggler,
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and so he asked me if I wanted to join a circus.
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I just sort of liked it.
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I stayed, learned how to be a fire eater,
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do the bed of nails, and did a magic act.
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And the sideshow manager quit,
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so I learned how to become a sideshow manager.
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The circus becomes your family.
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I mean, it becomes all-consuming,
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and then the people that travel with you
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are your family, you know.
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And it was just a great life, just a great life.
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In the old days, you'd just have to go
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to the mission or the homeless shelter.
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You hire ten people.
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At the end of the day, there might be two left.
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At the end of the week, there might be one left.
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You might be lucky and you have
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some people that stay the whole season.
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When I was with Carson & Barnes,
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they had workers there from all over Mexico.
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One of the carnival owners came and said,
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"We're having problems,
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and we see how quickly and efficiently your show works.
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Can you help us with visas?"
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I'm the person that processes 81% of all the H-2B visas
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for the outdoor entertainment industry in the country.
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I didn't realize that I handled such a large percentage.
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My name is Peter Joseph.
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I'm the president of Jolly Shows.
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We're a Maryland-based carnival,
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and we travel throughout Maryland and Virginia.
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It's a tough business, it's a hard business,
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but when things go good, there's nothing like it.
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It's... I wouldn't change my life for anything.
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It's enjoyable.
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I would always, you know, do the same thing each year
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as far as, you know, finding labor,
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put ads in papers, you know, friends of mine, word of mouth,
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that sort of thing.
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I would hire, you know, these local guys,
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and, like I said, they were okay,
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but, you know, they weren't dependable.
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If I told them, you know, to be out there a certain time,
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you know, "We got to start setting up
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and do this and do that," maybe 70% of them
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would show up.
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Then, you know, instead of me opening on time,
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hey, I had to push it back,
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because everything wasn't set up.
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A friend of mine was using foreign labor
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with the visa program, and ever since then,
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I've been using Jim Judkins and his workforce,
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and it's the best thing I ever done.
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The guys, they're sincere.
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You know, just like everything else,
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you know, hey, they get kind of so-called Americanized
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after a while, but overall I cannot complain.
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They come on time, they don't have any bad habits,
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and, believe me, the best thing I ever done.
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Best thing I ever done.
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You have to see them to believe them.
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No one has to tell them what to do, how to do it.
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Both vans get there,
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they scatter,
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and they just start working.
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It's unbelievable.
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They help each other. You know what I mean?
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Like, they help each other out,
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which, I mean, is a good thing, you know.
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You know, you don't find any Americans doing that.
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You know what I mean?
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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Tomorrow more, more.
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-More. -More, yeah.
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I know. I know.
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Thank you!
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Okay, four o'clock tomorrow!
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-Four o'clock. -Four.
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-Four o'clock. -Hasta manana.
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Several years ago, CDM began hearing stories
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of abuse and mistreatment from Mexican workers
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who had figuratively been taken for a ride
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by fair and carnival employers.
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CDM, you know, we're a small organization,
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but we've spoken with thousands of workers,
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thousands of H-2A and H-2B workers,
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and we've heard countless stories
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of violations of workers' rights.
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There's a group out of Timonium, Maryland, CDM,
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which they're a agency, you know.
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Supposedly, they're for, you know, the employee.
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Basically, you know, what they did is,
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they went ahead, while we were opened at the fair today,
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and what they were doing is going around
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to all the employees and asking each employee,
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"Are you satisfied, you know, with your living conditions?
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Are you satisfied, you know, with your pay?"
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And that sort of thing.
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They actually took some interviews
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from a couple of the workers.
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Employers say that they can't find American workers,
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but when employers can't find workers,
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they have to do something to attract workers.
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They have to raise wages.
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They have to improve working conditions.
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And I think the H-2B program is a way around that.
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This is way to get cheap workers.
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It's a way to get cheap workers.
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Workers are paid a weekly wage, a weekly wage,
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regardless of how many hours are worked during the week.
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Sometimes that amounts to $2 to $3 an hour.
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My line of thinking is, if, you know, we're doing so bad,
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if we're treating these employees so bad,
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if their living conditions are so poor,
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if they're not getting paid a good wage,
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why are they coming back year after year?
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I do need that immediately, okay?
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There's a suspicion that you must be using these workers
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'cause you don't pay enough,
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and the thing is, it's not a matter of money.
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It's just a matter of you just can't find workers
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willing to do the job,
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and the employers have no other options.
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I mean, the option would be to hire illegals
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or hire subpar people.
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Now that I'm providing the carnivals the opportunity
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to continue going with foreign workers,
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it just adds more responsibility to it,
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more reasons that I have to keep doing it,
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because, you know, it's up to me to make sure
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that employer stays in business.
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And I understand it.
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I've been where you're shorthanded
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and you're struggling to make it work.
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I've been there.
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I sort of take a fatherly role, I guess.
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The workers, they call me if they have a problem,
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if the employer isn't, you know, following up
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with what they're supposed to
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or if somebody's sick in Mexico,
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they got to go home...
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Everything from the guy needs...
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He's got a medical problem,
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you know, had to make arrangements or work shifts
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to go in to get checked for STDs.
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I mean, you do everything.
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You know, they always call me for everything.
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-Hey. -Hi.
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We're not saying that people should be paid
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like rocket scientists.
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We're saying that people should be paid
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at least the average wage
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in the industry in which they're employed
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so that they're not bringing down
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wages and working conditions for U.S. workers.
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Every person in this country
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should earn a fair minimum wage
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and that we should treat everyone with dignity.
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And treating people with dignity
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means paying for their labor.
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I just wanted to ask what you thought
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about the new rules that were just imposed
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that you just heard about.
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They'll put us out of business. Simple as that.
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I can't increase my prices.
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I can't have the public pay more
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than they're paying now
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for ride tickets, given the economy.
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So we're very, very concerned.
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I just didn't think it would go...
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That they would try to pull as many strings so fast.
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They're gonna put me out of business,
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absolutely, 100% out of business.
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For a program that's worked so well,
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it's really now under assault.
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Our wages would go up so significantly,
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and then on top of that, we've got to go through
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all these new hoops and procedures.
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It is a final law...
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I mean, a final regulation by the Department of Labor.
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The only way it can be defeated
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is if Congress does something to address it.
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We got to get it done.
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We got to get 'er done.
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Well, that's why you're all here, right?
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We bring the employers together.
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We try to educate them into how Congress works,
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and then we try to empower them.
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This is the first senator listed.
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This is the second senator listed.
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So 2:30 with Hanabusa,
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1:00 with Akaka,
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1:45 with Inouye.
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Me, personally, I mean,
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you probably figured this out already,
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but I'm not in it for the money.
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If I can earn enough to eat and feed my dogs, I'm okay.
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But I'd feel like I failed.
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I failed the industry, and I failed the workers
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that need these jobs that support their families,
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that help their community.
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And so...
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You asked me, what am I gonna do
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if this goes into effect?
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See, I'm not going to... I can't...
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I'm not going to allow it to go into effect.
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I mean, I don't lose these battles.
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These battles are battles I win.
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On the H-2B Program,
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the Department of Labor defines
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how much you have to pay people.
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And then all of a sudden, under Secretary Solis,
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she basically says,
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"We don't feel that that's just.
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We don't feel that it's... You're paying enough."
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And when you go to them and say, "This isn't right,"
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they say, "It's good for society.
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It's good for society if the wages go up."
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But that is totally not
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what the intent of Congress was.
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They're forcing us to pay a lot more than
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our competitors.
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Because it'll raise society.
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I'll make society better.
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But the problem is, it's... What's going to happen is,
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the effect is going to be,
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people are going to go out of business.
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But we need to just look and see what we can do about,
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you know, signing on to letters
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and getting the department to roll back these regulations
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and just, you know, delaying them,
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rolling them back.
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-Thank you very much. -Thank you so much.
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-I appreciate it. -Thank you.
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Yeah.
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If this wage increase does come into effect,
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as far as Jolly Shows is concerned,
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I don't think it'll put me out of business,
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but, hey, I don't think I'll be able
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to get all the workers and be able to afford them,
264
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you know, if this does happen.
265
00:30:41,550 --> 00:30:44,010
We're in Capital Plaza, Bladensburg, Maryland.
266
00:30:44,050 --> 00:30:46,430
It's a little breezy, but it's a warm breeze today.
267
00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:48,930
We're hoping for a good day today.
268
00:30:48,970 --> 00:30:50,220
No reason, really,
269
00:30:50,260 --> 00:30:51,890
why we shouldn't make a few dollars today.
270
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,240
The carnival, literally, it's an emotional roller coaster.
271
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,870
It's an emotional roller coaster.
272
00:31:06,910 --> 00:31:08,490
The weather affects you every week.
273
00:31:08,530 --> 00:31:10,540
You know, it's a gamble every week,
274
00:31:10,580 --> 00:31:13,290
because you've got the same amount of bills, you know.
275
00:31:13,330 --> 00:31:15,250
You got to pay the bills, make the payroll,
276
00:31:15,290 --> 00:31:18,460
pay insurances and trucking, and all that.
277
00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:20,960
It doesn't matter, you know, what part of the season.
278
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,960
You know, you get bad weather, it always affects you.
279
00:31:23,010 --> 00:31:25,470
And it seems like it's always on the weekend.
280
00:31:25,510 --> 00:31:26,840
It seems like it's always on the weekend,
281
00:31:26,890 --> 00:31:28,260
and, unfortunately,
282
00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:29,600
that's when you make the majority of your money.
283
00:31:42,150 --> 00:31:44,690
My guys get paid on Saturday night,
284
00:31:44,740 --> 00:31:46,570
and it's very hard to make payroll
285
00:31:46,610 --> 00:31:48,240
when, you know, the weather don't cooperate
286
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,490
or, you know, you come to a bad location.
287
00:31:51,530 --> 00:31:52,870
Payroll is very hard to make.
288
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,800
Payday is on a Saturday,
289
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,920
and I made payday on a Saturday.
290
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,840
It used to be on a Friday, but I made payday on a Saturday
291
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,430
to give me an extra day to make payroll
292
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:12,760
if we do have a bad week.
293
00:32:12,810 --> 00:32:14,350
I think they understand, you know,
294
00:32:14,390 --> 00:32:15,770
when we're hitting it rough, you know,
295
00:32:15,810 --> 00:32:17,060
with a bad spot and everything.
296
00:32:18,140 --> 00:32:19,400
They understand.
297
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,020
They understand, you know, "Hey."
298
00:32:21,060 --> 00:32:22,730
They don't get upset, you know, if they have to wait
299
00:32:22,770 --> 00:32:23,940
a day for their pay.
300
00:33:52,490 --> 00:33:54,200
Florencio, Gregorio.
301
00:35:12,070 --> 00:35:13,110
Yah, si.
302
00:40:36,060 --> 00:40:37,560
Well, good morning.
303
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,230
A quorum being present,
304
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:41,650
the subcommittee will come to order.
305
00:40:41,690 --> 00:40:43,820
Ms. Mary Bauer is the legal director
306
00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:45,650
at the Southern Poverty Law Center
307
00:40:45,690 --> 00:40:47,190
in Montgomery, Alabama.
308
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:48,740
Thank you for joining us again.
309
00:40:48,780 --> 00:40:50,530
And then it's a special privilege
310
00:40:50,570 --> 00:40:52,910
for me to introduce Mr. Dan Musser,
311
00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:55,540
who's the president of the Grand Hotel
312
00:40:55,580 --> 00:40:57,750
in Mackinac Island, Michigan.
313
00:40:57,790 --> 00:41:00,290
If you've not been there, you haven't lived,
314
00:41:00,330 --> 00:41:02,340
to sit on the longest porch in the world,
315
00:41:02,380 --> 00:41:04,920
looking at some of the greatest scenery
316
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,210
in the Straits of Mackinac, on an island
317
00:41:07,260 --> 00:41:09,220
where the only sound you'll basically hear,
318
00:41:09,260 --> 00:41:10,840
other than happy voices,
319
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,640
is the clippity-clop of horses and carriages.
320
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,220
It would be extremely difficult,
321
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,220
if not impossible,
322
00:41:16,270 --> 00:41:19,020
for us to continue to operate successfully
323
00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:20,640
without the H-2B worker.
324
00:41:20,690 --> 00:41:22,900
They are the lifeblood of our seasonal business.
325
00:41:22,940 --> 00:41:25,020
I think there's a moral component
326
00:41:25,070 --> 00:41:27,900
to the conditions that we allow people
327
00:41:27,940 --> 00:41:30,150
to work under in the United States.
328
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,950
And there will always be an endless supply of people
329
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:36,950
from other countries who are willing to come here
330
00:41:36,990 --> 00:41:41,370
and consider it even a good deal
331
00:41:36,990 --> 00:41:41,370
to make $1 or $2 an hour
332
00:41:41,420 --> 00:41:43,790
and to suffer under what we might regard
333
00:41:43,830 --> 00:41:45,170
as appalling circumstances.
334
00:41:45,210 --> 00:41:47,380
Shouldn't that be the people's decision to make?
335
00:41:47,420 --> 00:41:49,170
We're not forcing them here, are we?
336
00:41:49,220 --> 00:41:50,630
They're coming here freely.
337
00:41:50,670 --> 00:41:52,130
I'd like to think
338
00:41:52,180 --> 00:41:53,970
that people in this country and in this world
339
00:41:54,010 --> 00:41:56,720
can make better decisions for themselves than you can.
340
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,930
-I don't... I don't dispute that.
341
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,930
-Thank you.
342
00:41:58,970 --> 00:42:00,480
Let me get... Because I'm running
343
00:41:58,970 --> 00:42:00,480
out of time,
344
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:01,850
let me get to Mr. Musser.
345
00:42:01,890 --> 00:42:03,730
You've seen the line of questioning.
346
00:42:03,770 --> 00:42:05,480
Can you comment on any of it?
347
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,650
If our wages weren't good
348
00:42:08,690 --> 00:42:12,820
and our... And the... The type
349
00:42:08,690 --> 00:42:12,820
of work environment
350
00:42:12,860 --> 00:42:15,370
that we work hard to create wasn't good,
351
00:42:15,410 --> 00:42:17,740
I don't think those individuals would be returning.
352
00:42:32,670 --> 00:42:35,300
Employers have
353
00:42:35,340 --> 00:42:38,060
powerful political allies.
354
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:41,270
They are somebody's constituents.
355
00:42:41,310 --> 00:42:45,600
There are no advocates in Congress for H-2B workers.
356
00:42:45,650 --> 00:42:47,440
They are nobody's constituents.
357
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,530
They don't vote in the United States.
358
00:42:49,570 --> 00:42:52,820
They don't have powerful political interests.
359
00:42:52,860 --> 00:42:57,620
And at the end of the day, I have very little hope
360
00:42:57,660 --> 00:43:02,580
that the forces protecting guest workers
361
00:43:02,620 --> 00:43:03,710
will prevail,
362
00:43:03,750 --> 00:43:05,120
because the political power
363
00:43:05,170 --> 00:43:08,460
held by employers is so great.
364
00:43:56,970 --> 00:43:59,510
We're at the Laurel Mall
365
00:43:56,970 --> 00:43:59,510
in Laurel, Maryland.
366
00:43:59,550 --> 00:44:02,470
Today's our last day of the so-called regular season.
367
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,480
We're breaking down, and we should be finished
368
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,690
probably around 4:00, five o'clock
369
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,690
in the morning.
370
00:44:06,730 --> 00:44:09,230
They're going to head out back to the bunkhouse
371
00:44:09,270 --> 00:44:13,400
and get situated, and they're all going to be heading out
372
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,490
sometime tomorrow, Monday.
373
00:45:20,470 --> 00:45:22,010
I miss you, Sawyer.
374
00:45:22,050 --> 00:45:23,680
I miss you too, baby. I miss you too.
375
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:25,100
-Maybe see you... -Thank you.
376
00:45:25,140 --> 00:45:26,520
Next year, all the time.
377
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:27,890
I can't imagine my kids being
378
00:45:27,930 --> 00:45:30,480
in a whole nother country, working.
379
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:31,440
So...
380
00:45:37,780 --> 00:45:39,030
Will it be easier for me
381
00:45:39,070 --> 00:45:40,990
to bring all these workers back next year?
382
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:42,410
Of course it will.
383
00:45:42,450 --> 00:45:45,030
Hey, no training. They know the routine.
384
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,120
But in a way, knowing the routine is a bad thing,
385
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,750
because they know what they can get away with.
386
00:45:50,830 --> 00:45:53,460
This year, I had a few instances
387
00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:56,630
where they're starting to sell tickets.
388
00:45:56,670 --> 00:46:00,050
I started to notice this midway through the season.
389
00:46:00,090 --> 00:46:02,050
Yeah, they're starting to sell tickets
390
00:46:02,090 --> 00:46:04,050
to some of the customers.
391
00:46:04,090 --> 00:46:07,060
Uh, I'm... I'm getting that a lot lately.
392
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,230
These rides, you got a pretty good hand
393
00:46:10,270 --> 00:46:11,980
in, you know, what they're doing.
394
00:46:12,020 --> 00:46:14,400
At the end of each night, we weigh the tickets,
395
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,610
and, you know, I kind of noticed
396
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,610
a lot of things, you know,
397
00:46:16,650 --> 00:46:18,480
were a lot less than what they should be.
398
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:20,610
I tell the guys.
399
00:46:20,650 --> 00:46:22,660
I get them all together, and I sit down with them
400
00:46:22,700 --> 00:46:24,410
and, "Guys, I know something's going on."
401
00:46:24,450 --> 00:46:25,700
Well, what happens is,
402
00:46:25,740 --> 00:46:27,240
I think they're kind of taking turns.
403
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,160
"Hey, this week, you guys sell them
404
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,790
so my bag of tickets looks pretty good, you know,
405
00:46:31,830 --> 00:46:33,830
in the rankings and everything."
406
00:46:33,870 --> 00:46:35,790
That's one thing I got to consider about
407
00:46:35,830 --> 00:46:37,800
over the winter,
408
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,010
which guys, you know, we want to try to bring back.
409
00:46:40,050 --> 00:46:43,050
Do we want to, you know, replace the majority
410
00:46:40,050 --> 00:46:43,050
with new guys?
411
00:46:43,090 --> 00:46:45,890
Do we want to, you know, try to keep these guys another year?
412
00:46:45,930 --> 00:46:48,430
So I got to take a strong look at that,
413
00:46:48,470 --> 00:46:50,810
because that's starting to be a little bit of a problem,
414
00:46:50,850 --> 00:46:53,190
them selling tickets to customers.
415
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,280
We're in Tlapacoyan, Veracruz, Mexico,
416
00:49:13,330 --> 00:49:15,160
on the 12th of December,
417
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,290
the birthday of the Virgin de Guadalupe.
418
00:49:19,870 --> 00:49:21,630
All over Mexico, the faithful
419
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:24,840
go to Mexico City, to the basilica.
420
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,590
They light torches,
421
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:28,760
and they bring it back to their hometown.
422
00:49:37,140 --> 00:49:40,310
I can't say that I believe in the virgin
423
00:49:40,350 --> 00:49:42,900
and all of this stuff affects me,
424
00:49:42,940 --> 00:49:44,190
but it does affect me.
425
00:49:44,230 --> 00:49:46,230
It makes me just feel...
426
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:50,990
It makes me feel that people are good.
427
00:49:52,740 --> 00:49:54,950
It just reinforces the fact
428
00:49:54,990 --> 00:49:57,450
that these people that we send to work
429
00:49:54,990 --> 00:49:57,450
every year,
430
00:49:57,490 --> 00:49:59,870
that we provide the opportunities to,
431
00:49:59,910 --> 00:50:01,830
are good people.
432
00:50:01,870 --> 00:50:05,960
They have just such strong faith in God,
433
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,630
strong faith in their families
434
00:50:08,670 --> 00:50:12,050
that anything I can do to help 'em makes me feel good.
435
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:25,120
Florencio.
436
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:35,840
Well, do you want the true story,
437
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,800
or do you want a story I make up?
438
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:38,850
Both.
439
00:51:38,890 --> 00:51:40,430
Okay.
440
00:51:40,470 --> 00:51:42,680
The story I make up.
441
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:46,060
He's come to the United States enough that he's been able
442
00:51:46,100 --> 00:51:48,650
to build his house, build his business,
443
00:51:48,690 --> 00:51:50,520
and now he can stay home and be with his family.
444
00:51:50,570 --> 00:51:52,070
There's no reason for him
445
00:51:52,110 --> 00:51:53,320
to come to the United States anymore.
446
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:57,240
Now the true story.
447
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,530
He had been on Jolly for a few years.
448
00:51:59,570 --> 00:52:01,030
He got comfortable.
449
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:02,870
He got with two or three other guys,
450
00:52:02,910 --> 00:52:04,960
and they started stealing tickets,
451
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,120
going down to the Mexican grocery stores,
452
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:08,170
and reselling them.
453
00:52:09,380 --> 00:52:11,540
Because he was such a good friend,
454
00:52:11,590 --> 00:52:15,130
it was quite a betrayal that he was actually
455
00:52:11,590 --> 00:52:15,130
doing that.
456
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,610
When it was found out,
457
00:52:31,650 --> 00:52:34,480
he basically wasn't invited back.
458
00:52:34,530 --> 00:52:36,240
And after he's had a year or two down there
459
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:38,910
of sort of punishment, we'll give him another chance.
460
00:53:00,260 --> 00:53:03,600
I agree that the workers don't have a voice,
461
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,180
but I'd say the workers' rights groups
462
00:53:05,220 --> 00:53:07,730
aren't their voice.
463
00:53:07,770 --> 00:53:09,520
There's been talk that some of them might try
464
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:11,900
to form an association of workers,
465
00:53:11,940 --> 00:53:15,230
and if they do, hopefully it'll... They'll have a voice.
466
00:53:15,270 --> 00:53:17,070
And I think they should have a voice,
467
00:53:17,110 --> 00:53:19,780
because I'm tired, myself, of trying to defend them
468
00:53:19,820 --> 00:53:22,490
and protect them.
469
00:53:22,530 --> 00:53:26,790
And if they can take over that duty, that job,
470
00:53:22,530 --> 00:53:26,790
themselves,
471
00:53:26,830 --> 00:53:28,250
that would be wonderful.
36736
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