Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:09,052
This programme contains some scenes
which some viewers may find upsetting.
2
00:00:31,410 --> 00:00:35,630
The suspect's going to be a skinny
black male, wearing dark shorts,
3
00:00:35,630 --> 00:00:39,430
possibly using, like,
a small Derringer-type pistol.
4
00:00:43,500 --> 00:00:45,991
Very, very tragic. Very tragic.
5
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,197
I'm Pat McGuinness.
I'll be 50 on Christmas Day.
6
00:00:58,740 --> 00:01:01,607
And I defend people charged
with killing people.
7
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,902
James Stevens and his wife
were at their local Ramada Inn.
8
00:01:14,210 --> 00:01:16,930
They went to a continental
breakfast.
9
00:01:16,930 --> 00:01:21,610
As they left, they were walking
down a breezeway in that hotel,
10
00:01:21,610 --> 00:01:26,912
and somebody shot
and killed Mr Stevens' wife.
11
00:01:32,300 --> 00:01:38,040
At that same time, Brenton Butler
was at his home saying good morning,
12
00:01:38,041 --> 00:01:40,241
taking care of his dog,
13
00:01:41,910 --> 00:01:46,980
but those two events collided about
two-and-a-half hours later.
14
00:01:46,980 --> 00:01:51,383
He was arrested by the police and
taken to be viewed by Mr Stevens,
15
00:01:51,710 --> 00:01:55,658
and Mr Stevens identified him
as the man who shot his wife.
16
00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:07,600
This entire case, everything
important took place in two hours,
17
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,990
between 7 and 9 on a Sunday morning.
18
00:02:12,620 --> 00:02:16,880
And what the jury ultimately comes
to believe about those two hours
19
00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,589
is going to determine
whether Brent goes to prison for life
20
00:02:19,590 --> 00:02:22,990
or is returned to his family.
21
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,360
On the morning of 8th May, I first
read about the Brenton Butler case
22
00:03:05,361 --> 00:03:06,861
in the paper.
23
00:03:06,860 --> 00:03:14,360
The article said a 15-year-old black kid
had shot and murdered a white tourist,
24
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,120
and that he had confessed.
25
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,030
If true, that appeared to be
the end of the story.
26
00:03:20,030 --> 00:03:23,680
My immediate reaction was
he had thrown his own life away,
27
00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,013
as well as that of the tourist.
28
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,590
I had a chance later that morning to
meet Brenton Butler for the first time.
29
00:03:32,590 --> 00:03:37,000
What he told me
about the case made sense.
30
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,460
What he told me about
how the detectives had treated him
31
00:03:39,461 --> 00:03:41,961
made me angry,
32
00:03:42,060 --> 00:03:45,484
and as I learned more,
I became increasingly angry.
33
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,170
The suspect's going to be a skinny
black male, wearing dark shorts,
34
00:03:56,170 --> 00:03:58,809
unknown shirt, had on a hat.
35
00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:04,280
Last seen on foot, running
southbound,
36
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,171
possibly using like a small
Derringer-type pistol.
37
00:04:10,190 --> 00:04:13,918
And the latest update is a
black male with a fish-like hat on,
38
00:04:13,919 --> 00:04:16,619
with a cloth build.
39
00:04:24,390 --> 00:04:25,610
OK, Officer Martin,
I've asked you here today
40
00:04:25,611 --> 00:04:27,911
because you've been listed by the State
41
00:04:27,910 --> 00:04:31,000
as a potential witness in the cases
pending against Brenton Butler.
42
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,000
Specifically, Mr Butler's been
charged with responsibility
43
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,700
for the death of Mary Anne Stevens
on or about 7th May of 2000.
44
00:04:37,700 --> 00:04:39,340
I'm Ann Finnell.
45
00:04:39,340 --> 00:04:40,740
I'm an attorney with the
Public Defender's Office
46
00:04:40,741 --> 00:04:43,741
in Jacksonville, Florida,
47
00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:46,520
and I've worked here for almost 23
years.
48
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,450
The canine officer, we were
talking about how little we had,
49
00:04:50,450 --> 00:04:52,610
just a black male in the area.
50
00:04:52,610 --> 00:04:56,310
And I was actually facing north,
and he was facing south,
51
00:04:56,310 --> 00:04:59,360
and he said, "Well, there's a young
black male right there,
52
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,470
"it could be him,
it could be anybody".
53
00:05:01,470 --> 00:05:05,690
I said, "Well,
OK, I'll go talk to him," you know?
54
00:05:05,690 --> 00:05:08,080
Being that we didn't have much
to go on, I said, "Well,
55
00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:09,720
"I'll go round there and talk
to him".
56
00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,350
So, I pulled out
and drove over to him.
57
00:05:12,350 --> 00:05:15,070
I told him that we
had a murder up the street,
58
00:05:15,070 --> 00:05:17,460
that the police were looking for
anybody that may be able to help us
59
00:05:17,460 --> 00:05:19,710
solve it, or anybody who could
have seen anything.
60
00:05:19,710 --> 00:05:24,070
I asked him if he lived in the area,
he said, yes, he lived nearby.
61
00:05:24,070 --> 00:05:26,880
I said, "Well, would you mind
coming up here and talking
62
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,580
"to the detectives for a minute and
telling them if you'd seen anything".
63
00:05:30,580 --> 00:05:31,990
He goes, "No, not at all".
64
00:05:31,990 --> 00:05:34,240
When you get to the hotel,
where do you park?
65
00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:39,300
I parked almost in that ditch,
somewhere along in here.
66
00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:40,990
I was half hanging in and out of it.
67
00:05:40,990 --> 00:05:43,140
I remember having to
jump across that ditch.
68
00:05:43,140 --> 00:05:45,820
OK, so then what happens?
69
00:05:45,820 --> 00:05:48,910
They went and talked amongst
themselves for a minute or two
70
00:05:48,910 --> 00:05:52,947
and went and got the victim's
husband,
71
00:05:52,947 --> 00:05:58,007
and he indicated that Brenton Butler
was the person who shot his wife.
72
00:05:58,007 --> 00:06:01,667
So he's about 50 feet away
and he says, "That's the guy"?
73
00:06:01,667 --> 00:06:06,447
Right. And we were all, well,
kind of taken aback.
74
00:06:06,447 --> 00:06:09,727
So, we had him come over even closer
almost to the car at that time,
75
00:06:09,727 --> 00:06:12,777
and he looked again and said,
"Yeah, that's the guy".
76
00:06:12,777 --> 00:06:16,897
Officer Martin came in and candidly
admitted that the only reason
77
00:06:16,897 --> 00:06:20,977
Brenton Butler was even
stopped that morning was
78
00:06:20,977 --> 00:06:25,287
because he happened to be a black
male walking in the neighbourhood.
79
00:06:25,287 --> 00:06:27,307
Now, think about that.
80
00:06:27,307 --> 00:06:30,777
That means for every African-American
in Jacksonville, Florida,
81
00:06:30,777 --> 00:06:33,307
if they happen to be
walking down the street,
82
00:06:33,307 --> 00:06:37,527
lawfully going about their own
business, not doing anything wrong,
83
00:06:37,527 --> 00:06:43,857
that they're subject to being stopped
and asked to get in a police car
84
00:06:43,857 --> 00:06:46,724
and driven away from what they're
doing...
85
00:06:48,447 --> 00:06:52,717
...and subject to being shown
to the victim of a crime,
86
00:06:52,717 --> 00:06:54,527
with the possibility that that victim
87
00:06:54,528 --> 00:06:59,128
would identify them under the most
suggestive of circumstances,
88
00:06:59,227 --> 00:07:03,407
that being that they happen to be
sitting in the back seat of a police car.
89
00:07:03,407 --> 00:07:05,027
And most victims would think
90
00:07:05,028 --> 00:07:08,128
that they wouldn't be sitting in
the back seat of a police car
91
00:07:08,227 --> 00:07:11,277
unless they'd done something wrong,
right?
92
00:07:11,277 --> 00:07:15,077
So that's where we are today
in Jacksonville, Florida.
93
00:07:15,077 --> 00:07:23,007
And I personally find that to be
disgusting and reprehensible.
94
00:08:07,627 --> 00:08:09,317
OK, the case set for today
95
00:08:09,317 --> 00:08:12,407
is the State of Florida
versus Brenton Leonard Butler.
96
00:08:12,407 --> 00:08:15,637
Is the State now ready to proceed
with its opening statement?
97
00:08:15,637 --> 00:08:18,219
- Yes, Your Honour.
- OK, Miss Stair, you may proceed.
98
00:08:21,217 --> 00:08:23,987
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
May it please the court? -Certainly.
99
00:08:23,987 --> 00:08:29,707
On May 7th of this year,
the defendant, Brenton Butler,
100
00:08:29,707 --> 00:08:32,377
approached Mary Anne
and James Stevens
101
00:08:32,377 --> 00:08:33,967
at the Ramada Inn
102
00:08:33,967 --> 00:08:36,967
and he demanded
Mrs Stevens' purse.
103
00:08:36,967 --> 00:08:39,407
Before she had a chance to comply,
104
00:08:39,407 --> 00:08:42,737
he raised a gun to her face
and fired,
105
00:08:42,737 --> 00:08:46,017
hitting Mrs Stevens at the bridge
of her nose, killing her.
106
00:08:46,017 --> 00:08:49,577
The evidence that you will hear
107
00:08:49,577 --> 00:08:53,937
that proves the defendant is the
one who committed this crime
108
00:08:53,937 --> 00:08:58,487
really comes down to two things.
First, Mr Stevens,
109
00:08:58,487 --> 00:09:03,127
the only eyewitness
to the actual shooting,
110
00:09:03,127 --> 00:09:07,537
positively identified the defendant
as the person
111
00:09:07,537 --> 00:09:09,077
who did this to his wife
112
00:09:09,077 --> 00:09:10,957
and he will come here in court
113
00:09:10,957 --> 00:09:14,567
and he will positively identify
the defendant in court.
114
00:09:14,567 --> 00:09:19,067
The second piece of evidence
is that the defendant
115
00:09:19,067 --> 00:09:21,877
gave a statement to the police
116
00:09:21,877 --> 00:09:24,407
on the afternoon of the shooting,
117
00:09:24,407 --> 00:09:26,762
admitting to the shooting.
118
00:09:33,647 --> 00:09:34,677
That's great.
119
00:09:34,677 --> 00:09:36,697
- May it please the court?
- Sure.
120
00:09:36,697 --> 00:09:40,315
Counsel for the State.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
121
00:09:42,227 --> 00:09:45,267
The evidence in this case
will show you that Brenton Butler
122
00:09:45,267 --> 00:09:51,507
did not commit this homicide
and, in fact, could not have killed
123
00:09:51,507 --> 00:09:53,947
Mrs Stevens, the morning of May 7th.
124
00:09:53,947 --> 00:09:59,377
At 12 noon, you will hear that
Detectives Williams and Darnell
125
00:09:59,377 --> 00:10:02,807
began their questioning
of Brenton Butler.
126
00:10:02,807 --> 00:10:07,067
They asked Brenton Butler
where he was Saturday night
127
00:10:07,067 --> 00:10:10,487
and Sunday morning.
"On Sunday morning, I woke up,
128
00:10:10,487 --> 00:10:13,167
"I took a shower, I brushed my teeth,
129
00:10:13,167 --> 00:10:14,947
"I saw my mum and my little brother.
130
00:10:14,947 --> 00:10:18,367
"I took care of my dog and,
a little after nine,
131
00:10:18,367 --> 00:10:23,147
"I left to go to Blockbuster,
to fill out a job application".
132
00:10:23,147 --> 00:10:25,027
And the detectives told him,
133
00:10:25,027 --> 00:10:29,427
"You're lying!
We've got an eyewitness".
134
00:10:29,427 --> 00:10:34,957
Detective Glover arrived
at the Homicide Office before 6:00pm
135
00:10:34,957 --> 00:10:36,087
and he will tell you,
136
00:10:36,087 --> 00:10:42,747
he will tell you, that he was told
that Brenton Butler
137
00:10:42,747 --> 00:10:48,417
was ready to confess.
Ready to confess.
138
00:10:48,417 --> 00:10:51,277
Here is a boy who has said
absolutely nothing but,
139
00:10:51,277 --> 00:10:53,667
"It's not me, I didn't do this".
140
00:10:53,667 --> 00:10:58,217
And at 5:56, you'll learn
that Detective Glover
141
00:10:58,217 --> 00:11:02,717
entered the interview room alone
to talk to Brenton Butler.
142
00:11:02,717 --> 00:11:06,837
And Detective Glover said,
"You're not innocent.
143
00:11:06,837 --> 00:11:09,367
"You're not innocent.
We've got an eyewitness.
144
00:11:09,367 --> 00:11:12,894
"It's niggers like you
that make me mad these days".
145
00:11:14,437 --> 00:11:18,557
And Detective Glover said,
"You know, if I had done this,
146
00:11:18,557 --> 00:11:21,797
"I'd have thrown that purse
and gun in the woods.
147
00:11:21,797 --> 00:11:23,717
"Isn't that what you did?
148
00:11:23,717 --> 00:11:26,947
"Didn't you throw that gun
and that purse in the woods?"
149
00:11:26,947 --> 00:11:31,637
And Detective Glover
takes Brenton Butler, alone,
150
00:11:31,637 --> 00:11:38,297
hanging on to Brenton Butler's
belly belt, as Brenton is handcuffed,
151
00:11:38,297 --> 00:11:43,027
into the woods, deep into the woods.
152
00:11:43,027 --> 00:11:48,467
And in the middle of the woods,
in that semi-darkness
153
00:11:48,467 --> 00:11:52,917
right before it gets totally dark,
ladies and gentlemen,
154
00:11:52,917 --> 00:11:57,277
Detective Glover
hit him in the stomach,
155
00:11:57,277 --> 00:12:02,112
not once, but twice,
and hit him in his face.
156
00:12:16,637 --> 00:12:20,387
- Could you state your name, please?
- James Marion Stevens.
157
00:12:20,387 --> 00:12:27,805
Now, the Stevens were in 142.
That's on this side, right here.
158
00:12:30,847 --> 00:12:33,327
OK, so, 142.
159
00:12:34,777 --> 00:12:36,665
Now, this is where they turned.
160
00:12:38,437 --> 00:12:43,127
It's about 7:30 in the morning.
They've got muffins, coffee, paper.
161
00:12:43,127 --> 00:12:45,800
They're talking to each other
as they walk.
162
00:12:46,067 --> 00:12:48,577
After you finished breakfast,
did you see anyone
163
00:12:48,578 --> 00:12:52,778
on the way back to
your room? -Yes, ma'am.
164
00:12:52,877 --> 00:12:58,317
I saw a black gentleman walking
down the sidewalk ahead of me,
165
00:12:58,317 --> 00:13:01,037
maybe 100 to 150 feet.
166
00:13:01,037 --> 00:13:06,747
He had on short pants
that went right below the knees
167
00:13:06,747 --> 00:13:08,297
and a dark shirt.
168
00:13:08,297 --> 00:13:12,427
Plus, he was wearing a hat
with a narrow brim.
169
00:13:12,427 --> 00:13:15,747
We were proceeding down, talking.
170
00:13:15,747 --> 00:13:17,767
All this sudden, there was somebody
171
00:13:17,767 --> 00:13:24,607
in my wife's face and my face
and said, "Give me your pocketbook".
172
00:13:24,607 --> 00:13:28,737
She first said, "Oh!", like that,
and she started to drop
173
00:13:28,737 --> 00:13:32,577
the pocketbook off her shoulder
and her arm to give it to him.
174
00:13:32,577 --> 00:13:36,517
So they looked up
and then turned and wheeled.
175
00:13:36,517 --> 00:13:39,237
He thought the man right handed,
which makes sense,
176
00:13:39,237 --> 00:13:41,023
because the bullet entered here.
177
00:13:42,147 --> 00:13:49,147
So... turn with your right hand.
OK, all right. Turn.
178
00:13:50,437 --> 00:13:53,964
The gun is less than 18 inches
from her face.
179
00:13:56,157 --> 00:13:58,927
He says, "Give me the purse,"
or, "Give me the wallet".
180
00:13:58,927 --> 00:14:00,797
There's some conflict about that.
181
00:14:00,797 --> 00:14:07,317
She starts to take the purse off.
Before she can do it, he fires.
182
00:14:07,317 --> 00:14:13,037
She's falling back.
-How close was he to you?
183
00:14:13,037 --> 00:14:14,957
Two and a half, three feet.
184
00:14:14,957 --> 00:14:17,727
What part of his body
were you looking at?
185
00:14:17,727 --> 00:14:19,087
I was looking at his face.
186
00:14:19,087 --> 00:14:23,257
But you indicated
you also saw his gun.
187
00:14:23,257 --> 00:14:28,317
Yes, after he told her
to give him her pocketbook,
188
00:14:28,317 --> 00:14:32,207
he raised the pistol and shot her,
right in here.
189
00:14:32,207 --> 00:14:35,677
And you're indicating
over your nose area.
190
00:14:35,677 --> 00:14:38,077
Well, it's in the bridge,
right there. -OK.
191
00:14:38,077 --> 00:14:40,787
You're indicating
192
00:14:40,787 --> 00:14:44,677
on the right side, the bridge of
the nose, is that correct? -Yes. -OK.
193
00:14:44,677 --> 00:14:49,597
Now... -Horseshi...
No, not the right side.
194
00:14:49,597 --> 00:14:52,697
I'm showing you the wrong side.
It was on this side.
195
00:14:52,737 --> 00:14:55,787
OK. But you're indicating
the bridge area.
196
00:14:55,787 --> 00:14:58,837
The bridge area, yes. -OK.
Now, the person that did this
197
00:14:58,837 --> 00:15:03,427
on May 7th, that confronted you
and your wife and shot your wife,
198
00:15:03,427 --> 00:15:06,427
do you see this person
in the courtroom today? -Yes, ma'am.
199
00:15:06,427 --> 00:15:09,197
Could you identify where he
is sitting and what he's wearing?
200
00:15:09,197 --> 00:15:13,227
He's sitting right below Miss Nell,
there. He has a red shirt on.
201
00:15:13,227 --> 00:15:18,057
I can't see his pants down below
the table. And he has on glasses.
202
00:15:18,057 --> 00:15:21,247
Your Honour, if the record
could reflect that the witness
203
00:15:21,247 --> 00:15:22,887
has identified the defendant.
204
00:15:22,887 --> 00:15:24,617
JUDGE: It shall reflect that.
205
00:15:24,617 --> 00:15:27,617
Is there any doubt in your mind
that this is the person
206
00:15:27,617 --> 00:15:30,107
that you saw in front of you
on May 7th
207
00:15:30,107 --> 00:15:31,647
pull a gun and shoot your wife?
208
00:15:31,647 --> 00:15:33,148
There's no doubt, in my mind.
209
00:15:34,837 --> 00:15:37,417
She fell almost exactly here.
210
00:15:37,417 --> 00:15:41,727
Now, this is, what?
47 feet to here?
211
00:15:41,727 --> 00:15:45,807
Apparently, by the time
they made it from there to here,
212
00:15:45,807 --> 00:15:47,357
Mr Stevens believes
213
00:15:47,357 --> 00:15:50,357
the man had made it back
100 feet or so.
214
00:15:50,357 --> 00:15:53,167
Start walking towards me
from that point.
215
00:15:56,587 --> 00:15:58,373
That's 150.
216
00:16:00,577 --> 00:16:01,839
OK, stop.
217
00:16:05,727 --> 00:16:09,477
So, he's got to make it
from there to here in the time
218
00:16:09,477 --> 00:16:12,253
they make it to here...
219
00:16:14,407 --> 00:16:15,477
...if that's the guy.
220
00:16:15,477 --> 00:16:20,312
All of a sudden, the man
was right in front of you? -Correct.
221
00:16:22,327 --> 00:16:25,842
- Two and a half feet away?
- Two and a half to three feet.
222
00:16:27,107 --> 00:16:29,167
- No warning?
- No warning.
223
00:16:29,167 --> 00:16:32,307
And by that, I mean,
you didn't hear the sound of feet
224
00:16:32,307 --> 00:16:35,127
running down that concrete sidewalk?
-No, I did not.
225
00:16:35,127 --> 00:16:37,887
You didn't hear the sound of feet
running on the grass
226
00:16:37,887 --> 00:16:40,227
next to the concrete sidewalk?
-No, I did not.
227
00:16:40,227 --> 00:16:43,597
You didn't perceive any quick
movement in front of your eyes?
228
00:16:43,598 --> 00:16:46,698
Not till he was there.
229
00:16:46,697 --> 00:16:47,967
And you saw the gun?
230
00:16:47,967 --> 00:16:50,407
Yes, I did. It was raised.
231
00:16:50,407 --> 00:16:52,377
- A Derringer-type gun?
- Correct.
232
00:16:52,377 --> 00:16:54,247
Over-under barrel?
233
00:16:54,247 --> 00:16:57,535
Yes, stack barrel
or stack... whatever they call them.
234
00:16:59,307 --> 00:17:03,527
Mr Stevens, from the time the man
appeared suddenly in front of
235
00:17:03,527 --> 00:17:07,327
you and your wife, to the time
he grabbed the pocketbook and ran -
236
00:17:07,327 --> 00:17:09,807
four to five seconds?
237
00:17:09,807 --> 00:17:12,057
Yes, in the neighbourhood
of four to five.
238
00:17:12,057 --> 00:17:15,163
That's what's in the deposition.
-Four to five seconds. -Yes.
239
00:17:16,187 --> 00:17:22,847
1,001, 1,002, 1,003, 1,004, 1,005.
240
00:17:22,847 --> 00:17:26,135
Approximately that, yes.
-That's all the time. -That's correct.
241
00:17:27,107 --> 00:17:33,207
Now... the shirt that the man had on.
242
00:17:33,207 --> 00:17:36,857
You did not see a logo on the shirt,
did you, sir? -No, ma'am.
243
00:17:36,857 --> 00:17:39,677
We're going to look
at the physical evidence,
244
00:17:39,677 --> 00:17:42,437
which will consist
of what they took off our client -
245
00:17:42,437 --> 00:17:45,017
his clothes, his shoes,
his underwear -
246
00:17:45,017 --> 00:17:48,157
not that that's any major concern.
247
00:17:48,157 --> 00:17:52,847
The items collected
at the crime scene -
248
00:17:52,847 --> 00:17:56,078
his glasses, fragments, a comb.
249
00:18:12,677 --> 00:18:15,544
This is submission number one,
submission number two.
250
00:19:14,877 --> 00:19:18,627
Mr Stevens,
let me show you a photograph
251
00:19:18,627 --> 00:19:21,347
that has been marked,
"Defendant's Exhibit D".
252
00:19:21,347 --> 00:19:22,621
Yes, ma'am.
253
00:19:24,347 --> 00:19:26,556
You don't recognise that,
do you, sir?
254
00:19:26,556 --> 00:19:30,446
I'll tell you where it was at,
but I did not look at it.
255
00:19:30,446 --> 00:19:35,136
But I told you that shirt
was a dark shirt that he had on,
256
00:19:35,136 --> 00:19:36,966
and that's the way I identified it.
257
00:19:36,966 --> 00:19:42,086
- Mr Stevens...
- That was on the front of his shirt.
258
00:19:44,606 --> 00:19:46,716
You're saying that this was...
259
00:19:46,716 --> 00:19:49,025
What was on the front of his shirt,
Mr Stevens?
260
00:19:50,136 --> 00:19:52,718
A logo,
but I told you there was a logo.
261
00:19:53,706 --> 00:19:58,346
Mr Stevens, are you saying today
that there was a logo
262
00:19:58,346 --> 00:20:02,186
on the front of the shirt
worn by the assailant?
263
00:20:02,186 --> 00:20:04,346
I told you, it was on his back.
264
00:20:04,346 --> 00:20:06,316
My question today is,
265
00:20:06,316 --> 00:20:10,016
are you saying today
that there was a logo
266
00:20:10,016 --> 00:20:13,716
on the shirt worn by the assailant?
267
00:20:13,716 --> 00:20:16,716
No, not the original assailant.
268
00:20:16,716 --> 00:20:18,216
Of the original assailant,
269
00:20:18,216 --> 00:20:21,826
there was not a logo
on the front of his shirt.
270
00:20:21,826 --> 00:20:24,786
I believe that, later,
271
00:20:24,786 --> 00:20:27,786
I told you
when we were taking the deposition,
272
00:20:27,786 --> 00:20:30,786
that I saw a logo
on this individual,
273
00:20:30,786 --> 00:20:34,766
and it was on his back, because
I remembered it when he was turning.
274
00:20:34,766 --> 00:20:39,316
- All right, sir.
- There's not any variation of it,
275
00:20:39,316 --> 00:20:43,346
but he had time after an hour,
two hours, to change clothes.
276
00:20:43,346 --> 00:20:48,966
So, there was no logo on the shirt
you saw worn by the assailant,
277
00:20:48,966 --> 00:20:52,346
is that correct? -At first.
278
00:20:52,346 --> 00:20:53,756
No, sir, not at first.
279
00:20:53,756 --> 00:20:57,456
I didn't want to be terribly hard
on the man, because, frankly,
280
00:20:57,456 --> 00:21:00,216
I think the jury feels like
he's been through enough,
281
00:21:00,216 --> 00:21:03,966
but at the same time, there were
certain points that I had to establish.
282
00:21:03,966 --> 00:21:06,976
I wanted to do that in a nice way
and it would have been nicer
283
00:21:06,976 --> 00:21:09,316
if he hadn't thrown
that shirt logo on me.
284
00:21:09,316 --> 00:21:12,226
It kind of surprised me,
when, all of a sudden,
285
00:21:12,226 --> 00:21:14,990
he started talking about
having seen a shirt logo.
286
00:21:16,906 --> 00:21:21,456
But I think we got out what we needed
to get out from Mr Stevens.
287
00:21:21,456 --> 00:21:26,616
Isn't a true, sir, that you do not
recall giving a description
288
00:21:26,616 --> 00:21:30,086
of the assailant
to a uniformed patrol officer,
289
00:21:30,086 --> 00:21:32,566
who arrived shortly after
the incident?
290
00:21:32,566 --> 00:21:36,456
I did not testify to that
in the deposition, no.
291
00:21:36,456 --> 00:21:39,736
- And isn't it true...
- I told you... Excuse me.
292
00:21:39,736 --> 00:21:43,346
Isn't it true, sir, that you do not
recall telling that first officer
293
00:21:43,346 --> 00:21:48,876
who talked to you that the assailant
was a black man with skinny build,
294
00:21:48,876 --> 00:21:53,286
wearing dark shorts, an unknown
colour shirt and a hat
295
00:21:53,286 --> 00:21:55,586
and carrying
a Derringer-style pistol?
296
00:21:55,586 --> 00:21:57,266
I can't remember what I told him,
297
00:21:57,266 --> 00:21:59,382
because I don't remember
talking to him.
298
00:22:09,926 --> 00:22:14,096
This trip to the Butlers
is just to clear up
299
00:22:14,096 --> 00:22:19,066
some final questions I have
about aspects of their testimony.
300
00:22:19,066 --> 00:22:25,346
This store over here is probably
the only place between the motel
301
00:22:25,346 --> 00:22:28,586
and Brent's house,
on the way to Blockbusters.
302
00:22:28,586 --> 00:22:34,309
As far as I know, the police
have never yet checked it.
303
00:22:37,026 --> 00:22:41,336
The police sent dive teams
on a couple of occasions...
304
00:22:41,336 --> 00:22:44,624
to check out that pond.
Of course, there was no gun.
305
00:22:47,386 --> 00:22:50,616
But they never bothered to knock on
a single neighbour's door,
306
00:22:50,616 --> 00:22:54,646
to see if anybody had seen him
leaving the house
307
00:22:54,646 --> 00:22:57,228
between seven and eight
in the morning.
308
00:22:58,356 --> 00:23:01,405
There are so many things
they haven't checked in this case.
309
00:23:04,356 --> 00:23:08,856
The Sunday morning that your brother
got arrested... -Yes, sir.
310
00:23:08,856 --> 00:23:12,136
Do you know about what time
you got up that morning?
311
00:23:12,136 --> 00:23:14,896
- Around 7:30.
- OK.
312
00:23:14,896 --> 00:23:18,506
Now, as I understand it,
when you woke up,
313
00:23:18,506 --> 00:23:22,216
you heard music from Brent's room,
is that right? -Yes, sir.
314
00:23:22,216 --> 00:23:27,276
Did you see him
come out of his room dressed? -Yes.
315
00:23:27,276 --> 00:23:34,116
I think you said he had a navy blue and
lilac shirt and dark blue polo shorts.
316
00:23:34,116 --> 00:23:39,936
What's lilac? -I didn't say that.
I did not say that. -OK, well...
317
00:23:39,936 --> 00:23:43,736
- I said a navy blue Nautica shirt.
- Nautica.
318
00:23:45,656 --> 00:23:46,686
OK.
319
00:23:46,686 --> 00:23:50,766
And when you woke up, Melissa
was already out getting the coffee
320
00:23:50,766 --> 00:23:52,085
and so on? -Right.
321
00:23:53,766 --> 00:23:55,686
- You had your coffee in your room?
- Yes.
322
00:23:55,686 --> 00:23:57,836
You guys talk for a while? -Yes.
323
00:23:57,836 --> 00:24:00,276
Do you recall
what you chatted about?
324
00:24:00,276 --> 00:24:02,576
If you don't, that's fine,
but if you do...
325
00:24:02,576 --> 00:24:05,056
Not anything very significant.
326
00:24:05,056 --> 00:24:07,776
You didn't see Brent? -I didn't, no.
327
00:24:07,776 --> 00:24:11,906
- Did you hear him?
- I didn't hear him.
328
00:24:11,906 --> 00:24:14,716
I heard music and bumping
329
00:24:14,716 --> 00:24:17,059
coming from the room.
330
00:24:19,686 --> 00:24:20,716
OK.
331
00:24:20,716 --> 00:24:24,376
So, it's almost seven by the time
you even check on the boys?
332
00:24:24,376 --> 00:24:26,106
Right, right.
333
00:24:26,106 --> 00:24:27,846
You go out and do your devotional,
334
00:24:27,846 --> 00:24:31,126
spend maybe 20 minutes out there?
-Correct.
335
00:24:31,126 --> 00:24:33,516
Come back here.
Now, he hasn't showered yet.
336
00:24:33,516 --> 00:24:36,046
- He's just still at the sink.
- Still in his boxers,
337
00:24:36,046 --> 00:24:38,246
because I remember
he had on plaid boxers.
338
00:24:38,246 --> 00:24:41,716
- So, it's maybe around 7:20, then?
- Yeah, could have been, yeah.
339
00:24:41,716 --> 00:24:42,796
All right.
340
00:24:42,796 --> 00:24:46,736
There was nothing unusual
about his demeanour that day?
341
00:24:46,736 --> 00:24:50,346
He wasn't sweaty or excited or
puffing or anything like that? -No.
342
00:24:50,346 --> 00:24:53,156
Just the same old Brent. Quiet.
343
00:24:54,886 --> 00:25:00,566
You frequently go into his room
to clean it and so on?
344
00:25:00,566 --> 00:25:03,796
- You've never seen a gun in there?
- No.
345
00:25:03,796 --> 00:25:06,046
You've never seen
ammunition in there? -No.
346
00:25:06,046 --> 00:25:08,536
- Never seen a fisherman-type hat?
- No.
347
00:25:08,536 --> 00:25:12,656
The only hats that you know he's got
are these two and the skullcap? -Yes.
348
00:25:12,656 --> 00:25:17,856
And I talked some about
the order of witnesses yesterday.
349
00:25:17,856 --> 00:25:22,884
We may end with y'all, with
Melissa being the last witness...
350
00:25:25,216 --> 00:25:28,356
...for a variety of reasons.
I think you guys tell a strong,
351
00:25:28,356 --> 00:25:31,506
consistent story about where
your son was at the time.
352
00:25:31,506 --> 00:25:37,216
And of the four of you - no offence,
Andre - I think she's cuter
353
00:25:37,216 --> 00:25:39,326
than you are
and makes a better witness.
354
00:25:39,326 --> 00:25:42,326
[SHE LAUGHS]
355
00:25:42,326 --> 00:25:43,406
All right?
356
00:25:43,406 --> 00:25:50,536
And I think a jury hearing
a momma talk about her boy
357
00:25:50,536 --> 00:25:53,676
and since she actually saw him,
like, four separate times,
358
00:25:53,676 --> 00:25:55,406
she's kind of a critical witness.
359
00:25:55,406 --> 00:26:00,014
Anyway, that's all the news
that fits the print tonight.
360
00:26:03,476 --> 00:26:09,846
We pray and thank you for giving the
defence attorney wisdom from on high.
361
00:26:09,846 --> 00:26:13,406
But then you are the great attorney.
362
00:26:13,406 --> 00:26:16,086
We trust in your holy name.
363
00:26:16,086 --> 00:26:19,408
Bless this family. Amen.
ALL: Amen.
364
00:26:36,286 --> 00:26:39,706
- Could you state your name, please?
- James H. Williams.
365
00:26:39,706 --> 00:26:42,706
- And where are you employed?
- Jackson's Sheriff's Office.
366
00:26:42,706 --> 00:26:46,226
Within homicide, are you assigned
to any particular group?
367
00:26:46,226 --> 00:26:49,596
Yes, ma'am.
I'm assigned Homicide Team Three.
368
00:26:49,596 --> 00:26:51,946
And who else is in Team Three?
369
00:26:51,946 --> 00:26:56,816
Our sergeant is Sergeant Joiner.
My partner is Detective Darnell.
370
00:26:56,816 --> 00:26:59,726
Detective Beakowski
and Detective Eason.
371
00:26:59,726 --> 00:27:03,146
Going back to May 7th of this year,
372
00:27:03,146 --> 00:27:06,426
were you actually there when
Mr Stevens was first brought out?
373
00:27:06,426 --> 00:27:11,026
I was standing at the car, on Richard
Street, with Officer Martin and Brenton.
374
00:27:11,026 --> 00:27:13,366
OK. And tell us about that.
375
00:27:13,366 --> 00:27:15,426
Mr Stevens walked up, looked at him
376
00:27:15,426 --> 00:27:18,476
and said, "That's him".
But he said, "I want a closer look".
377
00:27:18,476 --> 00:27:21,905
Mr Stevens asked if he could look
closer, which I allowed him to do.
378
00:27:21,905 --> 00:27:25,605
I actually opened up the passenger
side door of the police car,
379
00:27:25,605 --> 00:27:29,775
and Mr Stevens sat down in the car
and he looked at Brenton and said,
380
00:27:29,775 --> 00:27:31,745
"That's him". I asked him, I said,
381
00:27:31,745 --> 00:27:35,685
"Are you absolutely positive that
this is the person that shot your wife?"
382
00:27:35,685 --> 00:27:39,155
And his statement was, "I wouldn't
send an innocent man to jail".
383
00:27:39,155 --> 00:27:42,715
You were the lead detective in
the case? -Yes, sir, that's correct.
384
00:27:42,715 --> 00:27:48,675
So the overall responsibility for
the investigation would fall to you,
385
00:27:48,675 --> 00:27:50,355
is that right? -Yes, sir, it should.
386
00:27:50,355 --> 00:27:54,485
How many witnesses did you interview
yourself in this investigation?
387
00:27:59,315 --> 00:28:02,925
I spoke to a Cater Donaldson
for a few minutes.
388
00:28:02,925 --> 00:28:04,935
Did you do
a thorough interview of her?
389
00:28:04,935 --> 00:28:07,655
No, sir, she was too emotional
to talk to at the time.
390
00:28:07,655 --> 00:28:10,755
Did you do a thorough interview
of Mr Stevens?
391
00:28:10,755 --> 00:28:12,955
- No, sir, I did not.
- OK.
392
00:28:12,955 --> 00:28:17,735
Who did you do thorough interviews
of? -Brenton Butler. -OK.
393
00:28:17,735 --> 00:28:18,815
Anybody else?
394
00:28:22,235 --> 00:28:23,265
No, sir.
395
00:28:23,265 --> 00:28:26,175
So, you have
this young fellow in there.
396
00:28:26,175 --> 00:28:30,725
He was put in a locked room,
right? -Yes, sir. -OK.
397
00:28:30,725 --> 00:28:33,353
- Sound-resistant locked room, right?
- Yes, sir.
398
00:28:39,955 --> 00:28:42,958
[FRIENDLY CHATTER]
399
00:28:45,065 --> 00:28:47,455
Is it OK to take
a photograph of the room?
400
00:28:47,455 --> 00:28:49,425
- There's nobody in there, is there?
- No.
401
00:28:49,425 --> 00:28:54,772
He's a serious guy. He actually
married a friend of mine. -Really?
402
00:28:56,315 --> 00:28:57,452
Let's see...
403
00:29:08,835 --> 00:29:09,865
Just measuring it.
404
00:29:09,865 --> 00:29:10,991
It's about ten by ten.
405
00:29:23,645 --> 00:29:25,615
So you have this young fellow
in there
406
00:29:25,615 --> 00:29:28,475
and you're asking him questions,
and he's telling you,
407
00:29:28,475 --> 00:29:33,535
"I was home and I had yoghurt
and did these things", right?
408
00:29:33,535 --> 00:29:34,615
Yes, sir.
409
00:29:36,445 --> 00:29:38,175
Wouldn't it be relatively simple
410
00:29:38,175 --> 00:29:41,087
to go out and ask his parents,
was he home?
411
00:29:43,235 --> 00:29:46,095
Yes, sir. -Did you do that?
-No, I didn't.
412
00:29:46,095 --> 00:29:50,745
Well, you do a thorough, competent,
meticulous investigation, right?
413
00:29:50,745 --> 00:29:53,275
Objection, Your Honour.
That's argumentative
414
00:29:53,275 --> 00:29:55,945
and absolutely has no relevance.
415
00:29:55,945 --> 00:29:58,895
Overruled. You can have some
leeway. -Is that right, sir?
416
00:29:58,895 --> 00:29:59,975
I try to, yes, sir.
417
00:29:59,975 --> 00:30:05,175
Wouldn't it be thorough and competent
and meticulous
418
00:30:05,175 --> 00:30:08,695
to just drive out there and pick up
the phone and say,
419
00:30:08,695 --> 00:30:14,605
"Can you tell me what your son's
activities were today?
420
00:30:14,605 --> 00:30:17,472
"If you saw him, when you saw him.
What was he wearing?"
421
00:30:19,145 --> 00:30:22,995
Could you have done that? -Yes, sir,
I could have. -Why didn't you?
422
00:30:22,995 --> 00:30:28,105
Well, I was in the process of
interviewing him. I had positive ID.
423
00:30:28,105 --> 00:30:32,175
And I had parents that told two
detectives that were on my team
424
00:30:32,175 --> 00:30:37,715
that they had seen their son a few...
30 minutes prior to them arriving.
425
00:30:37,715 --> 00:30:41,075
He had, he was in our custody at
that time. And the parents...
426
00:30:41,076 --> 00:30:42,676
Wait here. I'm sorry.
427
00:30:42,775 --> 00:30:44,135
JUDGE: Let him go ahead.
428
00:30:44,135 --> 00:30:47,365
And the parents had also said it
wasn't unusual for Brenton to leave
429
00:30:47,365 --> 00:30:50,185
early in the morning
without them seeing him.
430
00:30:50,185 --> 00:30:52,715
You knew he didn't have a gun.
431
00:30:52,715 --> 00:30:54,825
You knew he didn't have a purse.
432
00:30:54,825 --> 00:30:57,115
You knew he didn't have any money.
433
00:30:57,115 --> 00:30:59,605
You knew he had a fisherman's hat,
right?
434
00:30:59,605 --> 00:31:01,755
That's all correct. -OK.
435
00:31:03,825 --> 00:31:07,715
Did you ask Brent, "Can I go search
your house, your room"?
436
00:31:07,715 --> 00:31:10,855
No sir, I did not. -Did you get
a search warrant for his house?
437
00:31:10,855 --> 00:31:12,585
No, sir, I did not.
438
00:31:12,585 --> 00:31:14,915
You wanted to find a gun and a purse
and bloody clothes
439
00:31:14,916 --> 00:31:17,316
and everything else, right?
440
00:31:17,415 --> 00:31:19,765
Yes, sir, that would have been nice.
441
00:31:19,765 --> 00:31:21,825
So why not get a search warrant?
442
00:31:21,825 --> 00:31:24,725
Well, we just said
we can get a search warrant. -OK.
443
00:31:24,725 --> 00:31:27,625
Did you go out and knock on
any of the neighbours' doors and say,
444
00:31:27,626 --> 00:31:30,026
"Excuse me, did you see
445
00:31:30,125 --> 00:31:33,085
"Brenton Butler outside of his house
between seven and eight this morning,
446
00:31:33,086 --> 00:31:35,086
or six and eight?"
447
00:31:35,185 --> 00:31:37,385
No, sir, I did not. -OK.
448
00:31:37,385 --> 00:31:39,825
You didn't do that, May 7? -No, sir.
449
00:31:39,825 --> 00:31:42,032
Do you consider that thorough
and competent?
450
00:31:44,515 --> 00:31:46,164
Perhaps I should have done, sir.
451
00:31:48,025 --> 00:31:53,985
If you don't have it organised
and you can't immediately,
452
00:31:54,006 --> 00:31:58,006
what I call, discipline witness
by punishing him
453
00:31:58,007 --> 00:32:01,807
or embarrassing him when he lies,
454
00:32:01,905 --> 00:32:06,685
then they feel free to lie
or to change the story.
455
00:32:06,685 --> 00:32:12,025
If, on the other hand, he knows that
every time he lies to me,
456
00:32:12,025 --> 00:32:16,905
I can turn and go, "On June 29,
you were under oath".
457
00:32:16,905 --> 00:32:19,525
"At that time, you were asked these
questions and gave these answers,
458
00:32:19,526 --> 00:32:21,026
"is that right?"
459
00:32:21,125 --> 00:32:25,105
"You knew what the truth was,"
and so on.
460
00:32:25,105 --> 00:32:28,715
That has, erm,
461
00:32:28,715 --> 00:32:33,635
a chastening effect on the
witness. It's like, erm,
462
00:32:33,635 --> 00:32:37,075
if a dog wets your carpet, you don't
discipline him,
463
00:32:37,076 --> 00:32:40,576
he'll continue to wet your carpet.
464
00:32:40,675 --> 00:32:45,405
If a witness lies to you and you
don't discipline him or embarrass him,
465
00:32:45,405 --> 00:32:47,425
they'll continue to.
466
00:32:47,425 --> 00:32:50,845
If you smack the dog on the nose
with a newspaper,
467
00:32:50,845 --> 00:32:52,955
pretty soon it won't wet your carpet.
468
00:32:52,955 --> 00:32:54,925
The same is true with witnesses.
469
00:32:54,925 --> 00:32:58,715
Did you tell Brenton Butler
470
00:32:58,715 --> 00:33:00,735
that you had sent policemen out
to his house,
471
00:33:00,736 --> 00:33:02,936
and his parents had been told
where he was?
472
00:33:03,035 --> 00:33:04,205
Yes, sir. As I say,
473
00:33:04,205 --> 00:33:08,465
the detectives went out to his house
and spoke with his parents.
474
00:33:08,465 --> 00:33:12,175
Well, "spoke" and "tell" are
different words. Do you recall which?
475
00:33:12,175 --> 00:33:15,075
No, sir, I don't recall which one
was said. -Did you tell him
476
00:33:15,075 --> 00:33:17,655
his parents have been told
he was down there?
477
00:33:17,655 --> 00:33:20,185
I told him his parents were...
478
00:33:20,185 --> 00:33:22,535
detectives had been out
to his house.
479
00:33:22,535 --> 00:33:27,175
And that... the parents, the
detectives had been at his house.
480
00:33:27,175 --> 00:33:28,725
I don't know what was said,
481
00:33:28,725 --> 00:33:31,205
I don't remember exactly
what was said.
482
00:33:31,205 --> 00:33:35,005
Detectives had been out to his house,
that's one thing I remember saying.
483
00:33:35,005 --> 00:33:37,205
As far as... how he took it,
484
00:33:37,205 --> 00:33:42,315
whether they were informed he was
there or not, I don't know.
485
00:33:42,315 --> 00:33:46,205
He asked, "Have my parents come down
yet?" I said, "No, they haven't.
486
00:33:46,205 --> 00:33:48,595
"But the detectives have been out
to your house".
487
00:33:48,595 --> 00:33:54,315
On September 27,
when you are under oath,
488
00:33:54,315 --> 00:33:58,625
knowing the matters you were being
questioned about well in advance
489
00:33:58,625 --> 00:34:01,065
and giving the answer that you did,
490
00:34:01,065 --> 00:34:05,615
you were certainly trying to tell the
truth at that time, right? -Yes, sir.
491
00:34:05,615 --> 00:34:08,095
And since then,
492
00:34:08,095 --> 00:34:12,455
you just don't recollect,
or did you forget, or what happened?
493
00:34:12,455 --> 00:34:14,285
No, sir, I just, I don't remember
494
00:34:14,285 --> 00:34:17,805
exactly how that part of the
conversation with Brenton went.
495
00:34:17,805 --> 00:34:20,475
That's what I said.
496
00:34:20,475 --> 00:34:23,205
So that part of the whole truth is
lost to us, right?
497
00:34:24,885 --> 00:34:27,085
No, sir. I... I...
498
00:34:27,085 --> 00:34:29,925
Do you know how we can establish it?
499
00:34:29,926 --> 00:34:34,026
No, sir. -Then it's lost, isn't it?
-If you think so, sir.
500
00:34:37,395 --> 00:34:40,675
Did you tell him that you would
arrange for an attorney for him?
501
00:34:40,675 --> 00:34:43,495
I said we could see if we could make
arrangements for that.
502
00:34:43,495 --> 00:34:46,445
OK. Did you tell him that you would
arrange an attorney for him?
503
00:34:46,445 --> 00:34:49,305
I said we could make
arrangements for that. -OK.
504
00:34:49,305 --> 00:34:51,745
Did you make the first arrangement?
505
00:34:51,745 --> 00:34:55,395
- No, sir, I did not.
- Did you pick up the phone?
506
00:34:55,395 --> 00:34:56,475
No, sir.
507
00:34:56,475 --> 00:35:01,495
You just told the young man...
508
00:35:01,495 --> 00:35:05,475
at noon, he had a right
to an attorney, right?
509
00:35:05,475 --> 00:35:09,275
Yes, sir. -And then you told him
you had arranged for one, right?
510
00:35:09,275 --> 00:35:11,755
Yes, sir. -But you didn't?
-That's correct.
511
00:35:11,755 --> 00:35:14,715
You didn't take the first step
on making good on that promise?
512
00:35:14,715 --> 00:35:17,285
I didn't promise, sir, I just made
a statement to him.
513
00:35:17,285 --> 00:35:19,635
And, no, I did not make
a phone call. -OK.
514
00:35:19,635 --> 00:35:24,035
When you say, "We'll arrange an
attorney for you," that's not a promise?
515
00:35:24,035 --> 00:35:27,365
I don't make promises to individuals
I'm interviewing.
516
00:35:27,365 --> 00:35:31,165
I'm not sure I follow. If you make... if
you say you're going to do something...
517
00:35:31,165 --> 00:35:33,405
Yes, sir, but it wasn't said, it wasn't
518
00:35:33,406 --> 00:35:37,206
brought across as something
I promise you I'll do.
519
00:35:37,305 --> 00:35:40,775
It wasn't said, "I promise you
I will go do something".
520
00:35:40,775 --> 00:35:43,545
So, you only do it if you promise?
521
00:35:43,545 --> 00:35:46,255
No, sir. You said, you brought the
word up, "promise".
522
00:35:46,255 --> 00:35:49,025
- Well, you didn't do it, right?
- That's correct, sir.
523
00:35:49,025 --> 00:35:52,305
Would you have done it
if you'd said, "I promise"?
524
00:35:52,305 --> 00:35:54,842
Well, I would have decided,
when it got to that point.
525
00:35:56,195 --> 00:35:59,475
You knew less than 100 yards
from where you sat,
526
00:35:59,475 --> 00:36:02,765
there was a court room in operation
with a public defender, right?
527
00:36:02,765 --> 00:36:08,245
Er, I'm, I'm not sure of the distance,
but, sure, there was a public trial,
528
00:36:08,245 --> 00:36:11,772
court room, attorneys were there,
by the jail.
529
00:36:13,445 --> 00:36:17,855
In retrospect, do you think perhaps
530
00:36:17,855 --> 00:36:21,515
you could have been more thorough and
more competent in the investigation?
531
00:36:21,515 --> 00:36:24,985
Perhaps, sir, it's always
good to self-judge yourself,
532
00:36:24,985 --> 00:36:27,465
to make sure you do a better job
next time.
533
00:36:28,775 --> 00:36:30,185
Thank you, sir.
534
00:36:33,375 --> 00:36:36,695
I'm going to turn your attention
to May 8th of this year.
535
00:36:36,695 --> 00:36:40,825
Did you find a purse during your
morning walk? -Yes, ma'am, I did.
536
00:36:40,825 --> 00:36:42,465
And where did you find this purse?
537
00:36:42,465 --> 00:36:45,195
In the dumpster at 63rd Main
at All Star.
538
00:36:46,455 --> 00:36:48,745
6:30 the next morning,
539
00:36:48,745 --> 00:36:56,155
Mr Stevens, who collects cans
for part of his living,
540
00:36:56,155 --> 00:36:58,271
was travelling up this street.
541
00:36:59,485 --> 00:37:03,745
He found the purse in a dumpster
outside an alternator shop,
542
00:37:03,745 --> 00:37:06,054
walked across the street
and called the police.
543
00:37:08,105 --> 00:37:11,715
He found the woman's wallet
and identification in it.
544
00:37:11,715 --> 00:37:14,557
He didn't know for sure whether
there was money in there or not,
545
00:37:14,558 --> 00:37:17,558
but he didn't check thoroughly.
546
00:37:17,625 --> 00:37:22,688
It turned out there was close
to $1,200 in the purse.
547
00:37:32,855 --> 00:37:36,052
They dump their trash,
some of them, on the corner up here.
548
00:37:39,235 --> 00:37:43,877
And that dumpster there
is where the purse was found.
549
00:37:53,815 --> 00:37:55,225
To put trash in...
550
00:37:57,845 --> 00:38:03,238
...when it's empty, you'd have to lift
those flaps and touch it...
551
00:38:05,345 --> 00:38:07,735
...and probably leave fingerprints.
552
00:38:07,735 --> 00:38:09,335
But the police never brought
an evidence technician out here
553
00:38:09,336 --> 00:38:12,136
to check for fingerprints on it.
554
00:38:12,235 --> 00:38:17,625
Between here and the Ramada Inn,
555
00:38:17,625 --> 00:38:20,485
there's probably 1,000 dumpsters,
556
00:38:20,485 --> 00:38:25,505
so I think there has to be some reason
this one in particular was chosen.
557
00:38:25,505 --> 00:38:30,335
There's a fair amount of drug-dealing
and so on in this area.
558
00:38:30,335 --> 00:38:32,061
It's racially mixed
559
00:38:32,062 --> 00:38:35,362
and there's a kind of a rough crowd
living right behind this building.
560
00:38:36,335 --> 00:38:41,305
To get... here in the Ramada Inn,
561
00:38:41,305 --> 00:38:44,765
it's about a nine and a half-mile
drive.
562
00:38:44,765 --> 00:38:49,035
It's probably, without traffic,
563
00:38:49,035 --> 00:38:51,805
about a 20-minute drive.
564
00:38:51,805 --> 00:38:57,425
For a 15-year-old boy walking,
round trip, it'd be quite some trek.
565
00:39:01,455 --> 00:39:03,615
Mr Stevens!
566
00:39:03,615 --> 00:39:07,555
OK, the pocket... It was white,
it had some blood on it.
567
00:39:07,555 --> 00:39:10,315
Did you notice the blood?
-No, sir. -OK.
568
00:39:10,315 --> 00:39:13,275
Did you look to see whose it was
at all? -I opened it up.
569
00:39:13,275 --> 00:39:15,845
I took the wallet out.
570
00:39:15,845 --> 00:39:20,115
Now, they didn't give the woman's
name that was killed on television.
571
00:39:20,115 --> 00:39:23,535
I found the pocketbook.
All of her IDs was in it,
572
00:39:23,535 --> 00:39:25,655
her credit cards and everything else.
573
00:39:25,655 --> 00:39:27,095
How are you doing, ma'am? -Fine.
574
00:39:27,096 --> 00:39:30,196
My name's Pat McGuinness, I'm
with the Public Defender's Office.
575
00:39:30,295 --> 00:39:34,185
You called the officer, he met you
over there, you gave him the purse.
576
00:39:34,185 --> 00:39:36,765
Then I left. -Then you continued
your route. -Right.
577
00:39:36,765 --> 00:39:40,275
When the police officer came back,
the same one I gave the pocketbook to.
578
00:39:40,275 --> 00:39:43,795
Uniformed officer? -Yes, sir. -OK.
-He said, "Do you have a few minutes?"
579
00:39:43,795 --> 00:39:46,655
I said, "Yeah". He says,
"Somebody wants to talk to you".
580
00:39:46,655 --> 00:39:50,355
That's when the detective pulled up
and said, "Boy, where's the gun?"
581
00:39:50,355 --> 00:39:53,125
- He called you "boy"?
- He accused me of taking the gun.
582
00:39:53,125 --> 00:39:54,875
And did he call you "boy"?
583
00:39:54,876 --> 00:39:57,576
I think if I recall correct, yes.
If I recall correctly.
584
00:39:57,675 --> 00:39:59,405
Did you get the... -No, sir.
585
00:39:59,405 --> 00:40:02,785
...strong impression that he thought
you'd took that gun? -Yeah.
586
00:40:02,785 --> 00:40:05,965
Was his manner,
the way he was dealing with you,
587
00:40:05,965 --> 00:40:09,245
was it kind of accusatory?
588
00:40:09,245 --> 00:40:12,815
He accused me of taking it. I said,
"If you want to search me, search me.
589
00:40:12,815 --> 00:40:16,795
"You can also search my buggy,"
cos that bag was on the back of it.
590
00:40:16,795 --> 00:40:18,535
I had three bags of cans hanging.
591
00:40:18,535 --> 00:40:21,395
"If you want to search it, search it,
but I've got no gun".
592
00:40:21,395 --> 00:40:24,575
- There was no gun in the pocketbook.
- What did he say?
593
00:40:24,575 --> 00:40:29,505
He look dumbfound. The police officer
says I could leave, so I left.
594
00:40:29,505 --> 00:40:32,875
I appreciate you taking the time
to speak with me. -You're welcome.
595
00:40:32,875 --> 00:40:35,965
And, like I said,
any stuff I've found in the past,
596
00:40:35,965 --> 00:40:38,925
this is the first time
I've ever had to go to court.
597
00:40:38,925 --> 00:40:42,865
Well, hopefully it'll be the last time,
but I appreciate you taking the time...
598
00:40:42,865 --> 00:40:46,895
But now how the pocketbook got
from Southside...
599
00:40:46,895 --> 00:40:49,615
to the Northside,
600
00:40:49,615 --> 00:40:52,795
only God knows that answer, cos
I damn sure don't know it. -Nor me.
601
00:40:52,795 --> 00:40:57,539
How are you doing, sir? -Fine,
Mr McGuinness. And you? -Pretty good.
602
00:41:01,615 --> 00:41:05,695
When the detective came to see you,
what did he have to say to you?
603
00:41:05,695 --> 00:41:09,585
He got out of the car and he says,
"Where's the gun, boy?"
604
00:41:09,585 --> 00:41:10,945
"What gun?"
605
00:41:10,945 --> 00:41:13,005
"The gun that's in the pocketbook".
606
00:41:13,005 --> 00:41:16,145
"I saw no gun in the pocketbook".
607
00:41:16,145 --> 00:41:18,865
"Now, if you want to search me,
do so.
608
00:41:18,865 --> 00:41:21,625
"If you want to search my buggy,
please do so,
609
00:41:21,625 --> 00:41:24,585
"but you're going to find no gun,
cos I saw no gun".
610
00:41:24,585 --> 00:41:28,567
Was your impression he was accusing
you of stealing the gun? -Yes, sir.
611
00:41:56,225 --> 00:41:58,295
How you doing?
612
00:42:03,535 --> 00:42:07,705
Oakland, the Raiders,
they're playing good ball this year.
613
00:42:07,705 --> 00:42:11,785
They're a seven and one.
The Chiefs is five and three.
614
00:42:11,785 --> 00:42:14,555
And the Broncos, four and four.
615
00:42:14,555 --> 00:42:17,645
[INAUDIBLE]
616
00:42:17,645 --> 00:42:21,215
No, not at all.
But I just want you to...
617
00:42:21,215 --> 00:42:24,815
Everything went well today,
as far as your preparation.
618
00:42:24,815 --> 00:42:27,775
We're just happy
with what we have at this point.
619
00:42:27,775 --> 00:42:31,665
We have more than ample information
620
00:42:31,665 --> 00:42:33,495
and documentation
621
00:42:33,495 --> 00:42:35,695
to put before the judge
622
00:42:35,695 --> 00:42:38,225
to let him know that, actually,
623
00:42:38,225 --> 00:42:41,275
a lot of things
really wasn't done properly.
624
00:42:41,275 --> 00:42:45,025
Your granddaddy called me today
and sung Happy Birthday to me.
625
00:42:45,025 --> 00:42:47,885
He said you got a big birthday
present coming,
626
00:42:47,885 --> 00:42:49,671
so I don't know what it is.
627
00:42:51,115 --> 00:42:53,085
I don't know what it is.
628
00:42:53,085 --> 00:42:57,305
So, how... Let me see what
I was going to ask you about.
629
00:42:57,305 --> 00:43:01,105
You're the birthday present. -Yeah.
-You're the birthday present.
630
00:43:01,105 --> 00:43:02,835
That's what I said to myself.
631
00:43:02,835 --> 00:43:05,975
I said, "Shoot, the biggest birthday
present I can get is Brent
632
00:43:05,975 --> 00:43:08,325
"and that would be
the best birthday present".
633
00:43:08,325 --> 00:43:11,605
So let me let your daddy pray
with you before we go, OK?
634
00:43:11,605 --> 00:43:13,618
And I love you sweetheart, OK?
635
00:43:16,435 --> 00:43:20,185
- OK, son...
- Let's pray.
636
00:43:20,185 --> 00:43:23,045
Dear Heavenly Father,
we come before you this evening
637
00:43:23,045 --> 00:43:24,585
and, as usual,
638
00:43:24,585 --> 00:43:27,775
we know that actually you are
in control, dear Heavenly Father.
639
00:43:27,775 --> 00:43:30,545
Dear Heavenly Father,
we ask you to be in that courtroom
640
00:43:30,545 --> 00:43:32,695
for us tomorrow,
dear Heavenly Father.
641
00:43:32,695 --> 00:43:37,105
We ask that you give Mr McGuinness
all the tools that is needed,
642
00:43:37,105 --> 00:43:42,075
and his staff, to really work on our
son's behalf, dear Heavenly Father.
643
00:43:42,075 --> 00:43:46,195
Dear Heavenly Father, we ask you to
touch the judge, dear Heavenly Father.
644
00:43:46,195 --> 00:43:49,295
We ask you to really touch his mind
645
00:43:49,295 --> 00:43:52,715
for he can make just rulings
in our favour, dear Heavenly Father.
646
00:43:52,715 --> 00:43:55,845
Dear Heavenly Father, we love you,
we honour and we adore you,
647
00:43:55,846 --> 00:43:57,446
dear Heavenly Father.
648
00:43:57,545 --> 00:44:01,163
We're going to give you the praise
all of our days. Amen. -Amen.
649
00:44:58,345 --> 00:45:01,815
They questioned Brent off and on
over a period of 12 hours
650
00:45:01,815 --> 00:45:04,715
and they brought in a fellow
I regard as a specialist
651
00:45:04,715 --> 00:45:06,505
in obtaining confessions.
652
00:45:06,505 --> 00:45:10,020
And he didn't succeed,
and it frustrated him.
653
00:45:11,425 --> 00:45:15,505
They took a 15-year-old boy
out to the woods,
654
00:45:15,505 --> 00:45:21,365
and the others left them alone
and gave them their privacy,
655
00:45:21,365 --> 00:45:24,505
so they'd have
plausible deniability.
656
00:45:24,505 --> 00:45:27,035
They left him with this specialist,
657
00:45:27,035 --> 00:45:29,615
and that man punched him
in the stomach twice
658
00:45:29,615 --> 00:45:31,355
and punched him in the face.
659
00:45:32,475 --> 00:45:36,878
They beat a 15-year-old boy
because he said he was innocent.
660
00:45:44,795 --> 00:45:46,535
- That's a Miller?
- Yeah.
661
00:45:51,225 --> 00:45:53,425
Now, he looked worse than this
when I saw him.
662
00:45:53,425 --> 00:45:56,375
Yeah, he looked much worse than that
when I took the pictures.
663
00:45:56,375 --> 00:46:00,125
This one is good, but it still
doesn't show him the way I saw him.
664
00:46:00,125 --> 00:46:02,285
No, I saw him
the same day you saw him,
665
00:46:02,285 --> 00:46:05,895
and right in here
was just swollen, awful.
666
00:46:05,895 --> 00:46:08,005
Usually I wait to the end
of the interview,
667
00:46:08,005 --> 00:46:10,065
on the interview seat,
to do the photos.
668
00:46:10,065 --> 00:46:12,415
We stopped as soon as he came in
to take them,
669
00:46:12,415 --> 00:46:15,125
cos it was so apparent right in here.
670
00:46:15,125 --> 00:46:19,485
You can see the glare a little bit
better as far as the leverage.
671
00:46:19,485 --> 00:46:23,005
Can Andrew do anything
to enhance the resolution?
672
00:46:23,005 --> 00:46:25,585
As far as it being
on an African-American,
673
00:46:25,585 --> 00:46:27,595
the skin tone's a lot different.
674
00:46:27,595 --> 00:46:29,895
But we're going to need
to explain to a jury
675
00:46:29,895 --> 00:46:33,085
this doesn't accurately
show the way he looked.
676
00:46:33,085 --> 00:46:35,005
This one's pretty good.
677
00:46:35,005 --> 00:46:36,695
I contacted the State Attorney,
678
00:46:36,695 --> 00:46:40,165
which is something I generally
don't do that early in a case,
679
00:46:40,165 --> 00:46:42,885
and I gave the State my photographs
680
00:46:42,885 --> 00:46:46,635
and I told him what I believed
we could prove,
681
00:46:46,635 --> 00:46:51,555
and it didn't matter because
they were politically in a position
682
00:46:51,555 --> 00:46:54,085
where they felt
they had to prosecute
683
00:46:54,085 --> 00:46:56,713
to defend the honour
of these detectives.
684
00:46:58,725 --> 00:47:02,525
And everything
that has happened since then...
685
00:47:04,025 --> 00:47:07,115
...I believe, has been an effort
686
00:47:07,115 --> 00:47:10,915
to defend the honour
of these detectives,
687
00:47:10,915 --> 00:47:14,195
who I do not find to be
honourable men.
688
00:47:14,195 --> 00:47:17,005
- Could you state your name, please?
- Michael Glover.
689
00:47:17,005 --> 00:47:20,005
- Where are you employed?
- The Jacksonville Sheriff's Office.
690
00:47:20,005 --> 00:47:22,915
In what capacity? -I'm assigned
to the Homicide Division.
691
00:47:22,915 --> 00:47:26,005
How long have you been with
the Homicide Division? -Five years.
692
00:47:26,005 --> 00:47:28,965
How long have you been with
the Sheriff's Office? -11 years.
693
00:47:28,965 --> 00:47:31,025
Where did you first meet Mr Butler?
694
00:47:31,025 --> 00:47:33,835
In the Homicide Office,
in one of our interview rooms.
695
00:47:33,835 --> 00:47:36,835
What happened when you first
went into the interview room?
696
00:47:36,835 --> 00:47:39,325
When I first walked in,
I saw the defendant,
697
00:47:39,325 --> 00:47:42,745
and the defendant looked at me and
he made a comment that indicated,
698
00:47:42,745 --> 00:47:44,245
"Boy, am I glad to see you".
699
00:47:44,245 --> 00:47:48,505
Did you then have a conversation
with him? -Yes, ma'am, I did.
700
00:47:48,505 --> 00:47:50,855
I asked him, "Was it an accident?"
701
00:47:50,855 --> 00:47:54,885
And it was at that point
he nodded his head and said, "Yes,"
702
00:47:54,885 --> 00:47:58,165
and said,
"I didn't mean to shoot the victim".
703
00:47:58,165 --> 00:48:03,605
He began to hug me and cried, and I
hugged him back, and he indicated...
704
00:48:03,605 --> 00:48:08,525
he said that the victim
had given him a mean look.
705
00:48:08,525 --> 00:48:10,495
It was at that point
706
00:48:10,495 --> 00:48:14,525
I got close to his ear and I said,
707
00:48:14,525 --> 00:48:17,525
"Why did you shoot the lady?"
708
00:48:17,525 --> 00:48:20,055
And at that point, he said
709
00:48:20,055 --> 00:48:24,235
he didn't mean to hurt anybody,
he just needed her purse.
710
00:48:24,235 --> 00:48:28,405
It was after that
he immediately made a statement
711
00:48:28,405 --> 00:48:33,135
saying that he had the gun
down by his side
712
00:48:33,135 --> 00:48:37,083
and he raised the gun
up toward her face and it fired.
713
00:48:39,045 --> 00:48:43,405
He said after that
he threw the weapon somewhere,
714
00:48:43,405 --> 00:48:45,885
but he didn't remember
where he threw the weapon.
715
00:48:45,885 --> 00:48:47,245
What happened then?
716
00:48:47,245 --> 00:48:51,375
At that part of the interview
I asked him to tell me again
717
00:48:51,375 --> 00:48:53,575
what happened with the weapon,
718
00:48:53,575 --> 00:48:56,055
and this time, I wanted you
to be truthful about it.
719
00:48:56,055 --> 00:48:58,545
And it was at that point
720
00:48:58,545 --> 00:49:01,595
he stated that he put the weapon
721
00:49:01,595 --> 00:49:04,735
on the back of an 18-wheeler truck.
722
00:49:04,735 --> 00:49:08,295
I told him, you've been truthful
723
00:49:08,295 --> 00:49:11,765
and you've been communicating
with me and co-operating with me,
724
00:49:11,765 --> 00:49:14,295
and I was explaining to him
how I appreciated that,
725
00:49:14,295 --> 00:49:19,635
but I told him that I didn't believe
that he actually placed the weapon
726
00:49:19,635 --> 00:49:22,735
in the purse on the back
of an 18-wheeler truck.
727
00:49:22,735 --> 00:49:27,565
And I asked him again. "Tell me,
where did you put the weapon?"
728
00:49:27,565 --> 00:49:30,515
And it was at that point he stated
729
00:49:30,515 --> 00:49:34,875
that he threw the weapon
in the woods near the scene.
730
00:49:34,875 --> 00:49:37,125
Yes, he is a black man.
731
00:49:37,125 --> 00:49:39,705
His father also is the sheriff,
732
00:49:39,705 --> 00:49:41,400
so it's just like...
733
00:49:42,895 --> 00:49:44,855
...whatever Glover says,
734
00:49:44,855 --> 00:49:48,382
a lot of people believe it's
credible evidence, you know?
735
00:49:49,735 --> 00:49:53,068
And he had been involved
in so many different things.
736
00:49:54,935 --> 00:49:59,395
I'm angry due to the fact when
he said that when Brent saw him,
737
00:49:59,395 --> 00:50:02,489
he just hugged him and said,
"I'm so glad to see you".
738
00:50:02,714 --> 00:50:06,755
And I know Brent better than that,
because...
739
00:50:06,755 --> 00:50:10,455
you really have to approach him,
go up and talk with him.
740
00:50:10,455 --> 00:50:14,115
And he's not the type of person
that will run up and hug you.
741
00:50:14,115 --> 00:50:18,242
You all probably have seen
that in the courtroom, you know,
742
00:50:18,242 --> 00:50:22,882
he kind of stays to himself, so it's
like, what Glover is saying...
743
00:50:22,882 --> 00:50:27,192
Like I said, I don't believe it.
744
00:50:27,192 --> 00:50:29,832
PROSECUTOR: During that time period
when you were in the woods
745
00:50:29,833 --> 00:50:31,833
with the defendant,
746
00:50:31,932 --> 00:50:36,332
other than holding the belt,
did you touch him in any way?
747
00:50:36,332 --> 00:50:39,332
No, ma'am. -Did you hit him?
-No, ma'am.
748
00:50:39,332 --> 00:50:44,682
Did you raise your voice? -No, ma'am.
-Did you make any threats? -No, ma'am.
749
00:50:44,682 --> 00:50:46,792
- Did you threaten his family?
- No, ma'am.
750
00:50:46,792 --> 00:50:49,512
And then also the interview
you'd already had with him,
751
00:50:49,512 --> 00:50:51,902
did you ever threaten him
or his family?
752
00:50:51,902 --> 00:50:53,028
No, ma'am, I didn't.
753
00:50:54,382 --> 00:50:56,828
Mr Glover, how are you? -Yes, sir.
754
00:51:00,992 --> 00:51:04,280
- Are you related to Nat Glover?
- Yes, sir.
755
00:51:05,962 --> 00:51:08,262
- He is the sheriff?
- Yes, sir.
756
00:51:08,262 --> 00:51:10,792
When did he become sheriff?
757
00:51:10,792 --> 00:51:15,482
Um, four years ago.
-July 1, 1995? -Yes, sir.
758
00:51:15,482 --> 00:51:19,652
Was it '95 when you became
a homicide detective? -Yes, sir.
759
00:51:19,652 --> 00:51:22,842
They were stuck with a problem.
760
00:51:22,842 --> 00:51:25,792
You got two lieutenants,
two sergeants,
761
00:51:25,792 --> 00:51:29,402
you got the media camped out,
with trucks there already.
762
00:51:29,402 --> 00:51:32,492
You got a white tourist
in Florida at a motel, killed.
763
00:51:32,492 --> 00:51:35,492
But they're not getting
anywhere on the confession,
764
00:51:35,492 --> 00:51:38,912
so they think, "OK, we'll
pull in an African-American
765
00:51:38,912 --> 00:51:42,242
"to see if he can establish some
rapport with the child".
766
00:51:42,242 --> 00:51:47,262
Glover said - and I find this
incredible - that the police,
767
00:51:47,262 --> 00:51:48,992
that Williams and Darnell,
768
00:51:48,992 --> 00:51:53,172
told him that they thought
the child was ready to confess.
769
00:51:53,172 --> 00:51:56,402
Those were the words he used,
if I remember.
770
00:51:56,402 --> 00:51:59,312
So he goes in with this
state of mind that, hey,
771
00:51:59,312 --> 00:52:01,182
this kid is ready to confess.
772
00:52:01,182 --> 00:52:04,782
The first hostility comes
about this when he says,
773
00:52:04,783 --> 00:52:06,283
"I did some bad things in my life,"
774
00:52:06,382 --> 00:52:10,792
and the kid says, "I've never
had any dealings with the police,"
775
00:52:10,792 --> 00:52:14,782
and Glover gets upset.
776
00:52:14,782 --> 00:52:20,592
He says, "You're lying. It's
niggers like you that make me mad".
777
00:52:20,592 --> 00:52:24,202
You were there to get a confession,
we have established that, right?
778
00:52:24,202 --> 00:52:27,762
Yes, sir. -And you didn't know
whether he was innocent or guilty.
779
00:52:27,762 --> 00:52:32,402
No, sir. Not at that point. -You told
Brenton Butler to be truthful, right?
780
00:52:32,402 --> 00:52:33,762
Yes, sir.
781
00:52:33,762 --> 00:52:38,592
But you had a very particular idea
of the truth you wanted, right?
782
00:52:38,592 --> 00:52:40,422
Yes, sir.
783
00:52:40,422 --> 00:52:43,282
You wanted him to say
something different than what
784
00:52:43,282 --> 00:52:47,822
he'd been telling other detectives
since 10 o'clock that morning. Right?
785
00:52:47,822 --> 00:52:52,792
No, sir. If he was involved,
then, yes, I wanted the truth.
786
00:52:52,792 --> 00:52:58,232
You set yourself right up in his
face, knee to knee, right? -Yes, sir.
787
00:52:58,232 --> 00:53:02,642
And they teach you that in those
interrogation schools? -Yes, sir.
788
00:53:02,642 --> 00:53:05,452
You've been to five of those,
right? -Yes, sir.
789
00:53:06,952 --> 00:53:10,232
And they tell you to get some
physical contact
790
00:53:10,232 --> 00:53:13,372
with the subject of the interview,
don't they?
791
00:53:13,372 --> 00:53:18,442
What do you mean when you say
physical contact? -Touching people.
792
00:53:18,442 --> 00:53:24,012
Yes, sir. Some of the techniques
we use involve touching people. -OK.
793
00:53:24,012 --> 00:53:28,232
- And you grabbed his hand, didn't you?
- I held his hand.
794
00:53:28,232 --> 00:53:32,032
I never referred to Glover
as "Detective Glover".
795
00:53:32,032 --> 00:53:36,162
He didn't do any detective
work in this case.
796
00:53:36,162 --> 00:53:39,952
And it bothers the witness
when he's not called by the title
797
00:53:39,952 --> 00:53:43,052
he thinks he should have.
798
00:53:43,052 --> 00:53:48,252
And my purpose when I'm trying to
show someone is lying is to make them
799
00:53:48,252 --> 00:53:51,062
uncomfortable, to make them offguard.
800
00:53:51,062 --> 00:53:54,582
Sometimes, I like it
when they fight me,
801
00:53:54,582 --> 00:53:58,752
because when they do,
I believe I'm going to win.
802
00:53:58,752 --> 00:54:03,303
How tall are you, sir? -5'11.
-What do you weigh? -240 pounds.
803
00:54:04,562 --> 00:54:09,392
You played high school ball, college
ball? -Yes, sir. -Played line man?
804
00:54:09,392 --> 00:54:12,532
Yes, sir. -As a line man,
you hit people? -Yes, sir.
805
00:54:12,532 --> 00:54:17,782
You were on scholarship? -Yes, sir.
-You hit people well? -Yes, sir.
806
00:54:17,782 --> 00:54:20,832
- And you hit them hard, right?
- Yes, sir.
807
00:54:20,832 --> 00:54:26,222
And do you think a 240-pound man
considerably his senior
808
00:54:26,222 --> 00:54:31,662
grabbing his hand was going to make
Mr Butler more comfortable
809
00:54:31,662 --> 00:54:34,562
and more willing to chat with you?
810
00:54:34,562 --> 00:54:35,642
Yes, sir.
811
00:54:35,642 --> 00:54:37,752
Is that generally
the response you get
812
00:54:37,752 --> 00:54:41,052
when you go around grabbing guys'
hands? -I don't go grabbing guys' hands.
813
00:54:41,052 --> 00:54:43,362
I made that procedure
from the comment he made to me
814
00:54:43,363 --> 00:54:45,763
when I first entered the room.
815
00:54:45,862 --> 00:54:51,072
Well, did you ask Mr Butler, "Friend,
816
00:54:51,072 --> 00:54:55,052
"little buddy," - you are holding his
hand - "where did you get the gun"?
817
00:54:55,052 --> 00:54:56,462
No, sir.
818
00:54:57,632 --> 00:55:01,662
Did you ask him who might have ever
seen him with this gun? -No, sir.
819
00:55:01,662 --> 00:55:05,932
Did you ask him where he got
ammunition for this gun? -No, sir.
820
00:55:05,932 --> 00:55:09,162
- Did you ask him where he stored it?
- No, sir.
821
00:55:09,162 --> 00:55:13,472
Did you ask him how or where
he carried it to or from the scene?
822
00:55:13,472 --> 00:55:19,332
No, sir. -You just weren't curious at
that time? -Not at that time, no, sir.
823
00:55:19,332 --> 00:55:21,212
Gotten curious since?
824
00:55:21,212 --> 00:55:22,713
Yes, sir.
825
00:55:24,912 --> 00:55:30,912
- Done any more investigating?
- No, sir, it's not my case.
826
00:55:30,912 --> 00:55:34,382
"Not my responsibility"?
-No, sir. -Yeah.
827
00:55:37,102 --> 00:55:41,652
Well, weren't you a little bit
interested in the murder weapon?
828
00:55:41,652 --> 00:55:44,982
Recovering it? Yes, sir.
829
00:55:44,982 --> 00:55:48,162
Didn't you even want to know
what type it might have been?
830
00:55:48,162 --> 00:55:50,832
No, sir, not at that time.
831
00:55:50,832 --> 00:55:55,712
Why would three detectives
take Brent into the woods?
832
00:55:55,712 --> 00:55:58,382
I don't think they would
take him out to the woods
833
00:55:58,382 --> 00:56:00,962
solely for the purpose
of roughing him up.
834
00:56:00,962 --> 00:56:04,382
I just don't believe that. -Because
Glover suggested it, that's why.
835
00:56:04,382 --> 00:56:07,992
But Williams, who is the lead
detective, presumably would know
836
00:56:07,992 --> 00:56:13,012
that those woods had been searched
already by patrol officers and dogs.
837
00:56:13,012 --> 00:56:15,970
Williams doesn't know
jack about his own case.
838
00:56:17,742 --> 00:56:21,072
They would have to have a good
faith basis to believe perhaps
839
00:56:21,072 --> 00:56:24,212
the gun and purse were in the woods,
don't you think?
840
00:56:24,212 --> 00:56:27,822
I think they think, "Well,
we haven't broken the kid.
841
00:56:27,822 --> 00:56:29,662
"We know he got picked up
around here,
842
00:56:29,663 --> 00:56:32,463
"there's a good chance
he dumped the gun.
843
00:56:32,562 --> 00:56:35,132
"Let's go see if we can find it,
and, if we can,
844
00:56:35,132 --> 00:56:38,932
"we'll confront him with it,
and maybe get a confession".
845
00:56:38,932 --> 00:56:40,812
If I am understanding you correctly,
846
00:56:40,812 --> 00:56:45,312
you're telling us you're having this
conversation with Brenton Butler,
847
00:56:45,312 --> 00:56:48,782
and he says he threw the gun
in the woods, right?
848
00:56:48,782 --> 00:56:49,992
That is correct.
849
00:56:49,992 --> 00:56:54,122
Did he say where he was when
he threw this gun into the woods?
850
00:56:54,122 --> 00:56:55,852
On the roadway.
851
00:56:55,852 --> 00:56:59,709
So it would be within an
arm's throw of the roadway, right?
852
00:57:03,032 --> 00:57:05,752
I would still be guessing,
but, yes, sir.
853
00:57:05,752 --> 00:57:08,372
Well, you didn't say he kicked it,
right? -No, sir.
854
00:57:08,372 --> 00:57:12,122
You didn't say the gun had wings or
anything like that, right? -No, sir.
855
00:57:12,122 --> 00:57:17,282
So you think an arm's throw was a
fair inference from what you remember?
856
00:57:17,282 --> 00:57:19,489
It depends on how hard he threw it.
857
00:57:38,282 --> 00:57:45,552
Joiner and Darnell supposedly parked
on the far side of Cagle.
858
00:57:56,092 --> 00:58:02,292
According to... Williams, they spent
like an hour in these woods.
859
00:58:03,832 --> 00:58:06,699
According to Darnell,
it was 15 minutes.
860
00:58:09,642 --> 00:58:13,302
And just walking through these woods,
with all the vines,
861
00:58:13,302 --> 00:58:18,552
in handcuffs, at dusk, with only the
good detective Glover to help you
862
00:58:18,552 --> 00:58:20,850
would be a scary proposition.
863
00:58:32,802 --> 00:58:39,132
If it is dusk
and Glover is hitting Brent,
864
00:58:39,132 --> 00:58:43,952
there is no way they're going to be
able to see it from out there.
865
00:58:43,952 --> 00:58:49,632
How long during your
walk in the woods
866
00:58:49,632 --> 00:58:57,084
were you out of sight of Detectives
Darnell, Williams and Sergeant Joiner?
867
00:58:58,202 --> 00:59:00,318
Maybe 30 minutes.
868
00:59:02,702 --> 00:59:04,442
Do you know why everybody left you?
869
00:59:04,442 --> 00:59:09,132
They were searching the immediate
area where he originally showed.
870
00:59:09,132 --> 00:59:13,062
But you had the guy who was supposed
to know where the gun was, right?
871
00:59:13,062 --> 00:59:14,562
Yes, sir.
872
00:59:14,562 --> 00:59:16,492
And on your trip to the woods,
873
00:59:16,492 --> 00:59:20,522
he had himself trussed up like a
Christmas turkey, arms in front,
874
00:59:20,522 --> 00:59:21,832
tied to his belt,
875
00:59:21,832 --> 00:59:25,442
and you had a little strap in
the back? -Yes, sir, he was cuffed.
876
00:59:25,442 --> 00:59:26,852
OK.
877
00:59:26,852 --> 00:59:31,352
And he really was not in a position
to defend himself at all should
878
00:59:31,352 --> 00:59:33,934
he be attacked by anybody, right?
879
00:59:35,142 --> 00:59:37,212
I wouldn't let anybody attack him.
880
00:59:39,502 --> 00:59:43,212
- Are you right-handed or left-handed?
- Right-handed.
881
00:59:43,212 --> 00:59:46,442
So if you're facing somebody,
you pop them,
882
00:59:46,442 --> 00:59:51,462
do you more often hit
with the right or left side?
883
00:59:51,462 --> 00:59:53,111
Objection, Your Honour.
884
00:59:54,502 --> 00:59:56,857
JUDGE: Yes, sustained.
Reform the question.
885
00:59:58,072 --> 01:00:02,332
Now, you had gone out there, you
say, expecting to find a gun, right?
886
01:00:02,332 --> 01:00:05,942
Yes, sir. -Must've been kind of
disappointing when you didn't.
887
01:00:05,942 --> 01:00:10,772
Was it? -Yes, sir. -You a little
annoyed about it? -No, sir.
888
01:00:10,772 --> 01:00:16,262
Did you happen to punch Brenton
Butler twice in the gut? -No, sir.
889
01:00:16,262 --> 01:00:19,686
- How about once in the left eye?
- No, sir.
890
01:00:21,272 --> 01:00:24,572
And, if you did, that would be
891
01:00:24,573 --> 01:00:27,973
a violation of department
regulations, right?
892
01:00:28,072 --> 01:00:29,622
That's correct.
893
01:00:29,622 --> 01:00:36,462
And that could result in
suspension or dismissal.
894
01:00:36,462 --> 01:00:41,152
And if you had done that, would you
tell us the truth about it, sir?
895
01:00:41,152 --> 01:00:43,162
Yes, sir.
896
01:00:43,162 --> 01:00:49,022
Is that not your custom, to tell
the truth in situations such as that?
897
01:00:49,022 --> 01:00:53,573
- Objection, Your Honour.
- Sustained.
898
01:00:56,952 --> 01:00:59,712
And how did that appear to you
as you viewed it?
899
01:00:59,712 --> 01:01:04,352
It was a large welt,
like he had been hit.
900
01:01:04,352 --> 01:01:06,078
PROSECUTOR: Your Honour,
901
01:01:06,079 --> 01:01:11,279
I am going to object to any
conclusions by this witness.
902
01:01:11,342 --> 01:01:15,932
JUDGE: Overruled. -And does it
show up on the defendant's form?
903
01:01:15,932 --> 01:01:18,272
That's just a different view.
904
01:01:18,272 --> 01:01:22,022
With a swelling,
I take it from different angles,
905
01:01:22,022 --> 01:01:23,712
so you can see it,
906
01:01:23,712 --> 01:01:27,322
rather than a bruising
that you can take straight on.
907
01:01:27,322 --> 01:01:30,512
So it was right in that
area right there.
908
01:01:30,512 --> 01:01:33,185
There is a bruising right in here.
909
01:01:35,202 --> 01:01:38,062
Where would that be
on your body, Miss Smith?
910
01:01:38,062 --> 01:01:40,644
Right in the middle
of my chest area.
911
01:02:10,962 --> 01:02:13,738
This time, we call Brenton Butler.
912
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:23,910
Juveniles are not very
easy to work with.
913
01:02:23,910 --> 01:02:30,050
They have a lack of sophistication,
oftentimes limited vocabulary,
914
01:02:30,050 --> 01:02:33,292
difficulty sometimes
expressing themselves.
915
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:38,100
They are not as focused on things,
916
01:02:38,100 --> 01:02:41,900
they have a tendency to be
distracted.
917
01:02:43,500 --> 01:02:49,180
How I worked with Mr Butler
was to take the interview
918
01:02:49,180 --> 01:02:54,430
that had been done of him and the
affidavit that he had executed
919
01:02:54,430 --> 01:02:59,490
for his bond hearing,
and break it down into small pieces.
920
01:02:59,490 --> 01:03:04,040
When you got down to the police
station, were you put into a room?
921
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,710
- Yes, ma'am.
- And who came in?
922
01:03:06,710 --> 01:03:09,710
Detective Darnell
and Detective Williams.
923
01:03:09,710 --> 01:03:12,520
Was the next person you met
Detective Glover?
924
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:19,600
Correct. -Now, Brent, had you ever
seen that man before? -No, ma'am.
925
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:25,090
When he walked in, did you say,
"Boy, am I glad to see you"?
926
01:03:25,090 --> 01:03:26,490
No, ma'am.
927
01:03:26,490 --> 01:03:28,880
What did he start talking
to you about?
928
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,130
He started talking about sports.
929
01:03:31,130 --> 01:03:35,590
Is he being friendly, is
he being nice, or is he being mean?
930
01:03:35,590 --> 01:03:38,160
At that point, he's being nice.
931
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:42,660
Did there come a time when he became
not so nice to you? -Yes, ma'am.
932
01:03:42,660 --> 01:03:47,120
Did he use any racial comment
towards you? -Yes, ma'am.
933
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:48,570
What did he tell you?
934
01:03:48,570 --> 01:03:51,710
He said, "It's niggers like you
that make me mad these days".
935
01:03:51,710 --> 01:03:55,320
What did he do when he told you
that? -He started poking at my chest.
936
01:03:55,320 --> 01:04:00,810
With what? -His finger, going
like this, poking at my chest.
937
01:04:00,810 --> 01:04:04,370
Was he saying anything as he was
doing this? -Yes, ma'am. -What?
938
01:04:04,370 --> 01:04:07,930
Saying, "I'm going to get you.
I am going to get you".
939
01:04:07,930 --> 01:04:12,380
Did he touch you again?
-Yes, ma'am. -What did he do?
940
01:04:12,380 --> 01:04:15,990
He banged his fist into me chest.
-Show me. -Like...
941
01:04:15,990 --> 01:04:20,450
Did he then give you a scenario
of what he thought had happened?
942
01:04:20,450 --> 01:04:23,680
Yes, he said,
"You accidentally shot the lady,
943
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:27,850
"you ran and threw the gun
and purse in the woods".
944
01:04:27,850 --> 01:04:31,092
What did you say? -I said, "No sir.
I had nothing to do with that".
945
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:35,210
Does the issue of trying
to go out into the woods
946
01:04:35,210 --> 01:04:37,890
and find the gun come up?
-Yes, ma'am.
947
01:04:37,890 --> 01:04:43,040
How far did Detective Glover walk
you into the woods? -Pretty deep.
948
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,560
And what is the lighting like
inside the woods at this time?
949
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:50,170
It's pretty dim. Like, shady.
950
01:04:50,170 --> 01:04:55,324
At some point, did Detective Glover
hit you? -Yes, ma'am.
951
01:04:56,780 --> 01:05:01,180
- Where did he hit you first?
- In my stomach.
952
01:05:01,180 --> 01:05:04,180
- How hard?
- I fell to my knees.
953
01:05:04,180 --> 01:05:08,030
- What did you say?
- I said, "I can't help you.
954
01:05:08,030 --> 01:05:11,920
"I don't know anything about a gun
or purse". -What did he do?
955
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:16,650
Hit my stomach again. -What did you
do? -Fell to my knees. -Did it hurt?
956
01:05:16,650 --> 01:05:22,510
Yes, ma'am. -What happened after you
fell onto your knees a second time?
957
01:05:22,510 --> 01:05:25,610
I was crying. He said,
"You look pathetic".
958
01:05:25,610 --> 01:05:27,530
He pulled me up by my shirt.
959
01:05:27,530 --> 01:05:31,610
Did you get hit again? -Yes, ma'am.
-Where? -Hit me on my left eye.
960
01:05:31,610 --> 01:05:34,140
How hard did he hit you?
961
01:05:34,140 --> 01:05:38,970
It wasn't no knockout punch
or nothing like that.
962
01:05:38,970 --> 01:05:43,280
But it was a hit.
I took a few steps back.
963
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:48,060
I anticipated that the police were not
going to admit that they had harmed him,
964
01:05:48,060 --> 01:05:50,400
and it would be important
965
01:05:50,401 --> 01:05:54,901
to put his injuries into
the context of the interrogation.
966
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:59,170
The only real way to do that, since
there are only three detectives
967
01:05:59,170 --> 01:06:02,030
and Mr Butler as witnesses
to these injuries,
968
01:06:02,030 --> 01:06:05,500
and since I anticipated that
the detectives would be denying
969
01:06:05,500 --> 01:06:09,300
the injuries, the only way to really
explain to the court of the jury
970
01:06:09,300 --> 01:06:12,390
how the injuries occurred
would be for him to testify.
971
01:06:12,390 --> 01:06:16,090
So when you saw Detective Darnell,
what did he do?
972
01:06:16,090 --> 01:06:18,950
At that point,
he had pulled out a form.
973
01:06:18,950 --> 01:06:22,420
And what did he start to do
with that form?
974
01:06:22,470 --> 01:06:29,170
He said, "You have robbed her.
You robbed the old lady.
975
01:06:29,170 --> 01:06:33,860
"And you pulled a gun real fast.
You shot her.
976
01:06:33,860 --> 01:06:37,610
"You ran home,"
or something like that.
977
01:06:37,610 --> 01:06:40,560
And what is he doing as he's
telling you these things?
978
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:45,160
At that point,
he is writing it down. -OK.
979
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:50,690
And when he got done going through
this, what did he tell you to do?
980
01:06:50,690 --> 01:06:53,360
- He told me to sign.
- What happened?
981
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:57,350
At that point he was
looking at his holster, like.
982
01:06:57,350 --> 01:07:00,860
I said, "What are you going to do, shoot
me?" He said, "You guessed right".
983
01:07:00,860 --> 01:07:04,800
He said every 10 seconds that passed,
he was going to hit me.
984
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:10,380
Did 10 seconds pass by?
-Yes, ma'am. -And what did he do?
985
01:07:10,380 --> 01:07:16,478
He hit me twice on my left eye.
-Did you sign the form? -Yes, ma'am.
986
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:25,710
Now, Brent, did you shoot
the lady, Mrs Stevens,
987
01:07:25,710 --> 01:07:31,190
at the Ramada Inn the morning
of May 7? -No, ma'am.
988
01:07:31,190 --> 01:07:34,850
Were you at the Ramada Inn
the morning of May 7? -No, ma'am.
989
01:07:34,850 --> 01:07:37,542
Never been there before.
990
01:07:54,820 --> 01:07:58,010
Good morning, ma'am. -Good morning.
-Can you tell us who you are?
991
01:07:58,010 --> 01:08:00,007
I am Melissa Butler.
992
01:08:00,020 --> 01:08:05,740
I think you said you usually get up
before seven, is that correct? -Always.
993
01:08:05,740 --> 01:08:10,520
OK. And do you know
if that was true this morning?
994
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:14,270
Yes, because I still
can't sleep past seven.
995
01:08:14,270 --> 01:08:16,990
What do you do when you get up?
996
01:08:16,990 --> 01:08:20,190
Well, when I used to
get up in the morning, I would
997
01:08:20,191 --> 01:08:22,191
go ahead and pray as usual,
998
01:08:22,290 --> 01:08:26,230
go in the bathroom and do
whatever I need to do in there.
999
01:08:26,230 --> 01:08:28,240
It took about 10 minutes.
1000
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:33,540
After I left my bedroom,
I went directly to Brent's room.
1001
01:08:33,540 --> 01:08:36,020
His door was closed,
I opened his door,
1002
01:08:36,020 --> 01:08:38,180
he was in bed, still, in his boxers,
1003
01:08:38,180 --> 01:08:40,810
but his back was turned
towards the door,
1004
01:08:40,810 --> 01:08:42,960
his face facing his bedroom wall.
1005
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:46,710
The next time that I saw Brent
after leaving my bedroom,
1006
01:08:46,710 --> 01:08:50,650
when I was here, Brent
was right here in the foyer area
1007
01:08:50,650 --> 01:08:53,650
near the fourth bedroom,
which is here.
1008
01:08:53,650 --> 01:08:57,210
I would assume he was
coming out of the fourth bedroom
1009
01:08:57,210 --> 01:08:59,790
from the laundry room,
which is here.
1010
01:08:59,790 --> 01:09:03,070
Did you speak at all with
each other at that point?
1011
01:09:03,070 --> 01:09:06,730
Yes, when we met, here, I said,
"Good morning, Brent,"
1012
01:09:06,730 --> 01:09:08,370
and he said, "Good morning".
1013
01:09:08,370 --> 01:09:11,420
Now, did you encounter any
policemen that morning? -Yes.
1014
01:09:11,420 --> 01:09:13,760
Did either of those
gentlemen speak to you
1015
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:15,780
or your husband in your presence?
1016
01:09:15,780 --> 01:09:20,420
Yes. -Tell me, if you would,
about that conversation.
1017
01:09:20,420 --> 01:09:24,170
They asked,
"Does Brent Butler live here?"
1018
01:09:24,170 --> 01:09:29,370
And we said yes, and my husband
said, "What can I help you with?"
1019
01:09:29,370 --> 01:09:32,280
And they said, "Well,
we just want to question him,
1020
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:37,010
"we're not accusing him of anything,
we just want to question him
1021
01:09:37,010 --> 01:09:40,250
"to see if he knows anything
about the break-ins in the area".
1022
01:09:40,250 --> 01:09:45,030
Now, you went in
and Brenton wasn't there,
1023
01:09:45,030 --> 01:09:46,900
and you told the police that, right?
1024
01:09:46,900 --> 01:09:48,500
Yes.
1025
01:09:48,500 --> 01:09:51,920
Did that alarm you or upset you,
or was that unusual?
1026
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:55,620
Well, it was not unusual for Brent
to leave the house without telling us,
1027
01:09:55,620 --> 01:09:59,700
but it was very unusual for
Brent to stay gone for a long period
1028
01:09:59,700 --> 01:10:03,400
of time, cos he would stay no more
than 30 minutes to an hour.
1029
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:07,200
He would have never left the house
and just gone and stayed.
1030
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:08,750
And that's what upset me.
1031
01:10:08,750 --> 01:10:11,750
And I called my sister, Emma,
and I said,
1032
01:10:11,750 --> 01:10:13,720
"What could have happened to him?"
1033
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:16,150
And she said, "Well,
call some of his friends".
1034
01:10:16,150 --> 01:10:19,390
Sean is the only friend that
I know Brent associates with,
1035
01:10:19,390 --> 01:10:24,830
so I called Sean on my cellphone
to ask had he talked to Brett today?
1036
01:10:24,830 --> 01:10:29,190
He said, no. At that time, I knew
something had happened to my son.
1037
01:10:29,190 --> 01:10:31,112
So...
1038
01:10:33,170 --> 01:10:34,810
- Excuse me.
- Just take a moment.
1039
01:10:34,810 --> 01:10:36,971
There's water beside you
if you need it.
1040
01:10:39,550 --> 01:10:43,720
Did you get to speak to
Brenton later that night?
1041
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:45,415
Yes, but it was very late.
1042
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:50,520
Do you recall what he said to you
and you to him?
1043
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:55,253
He said, "Mom, I didn't do it.
I didn't do it".
1044
01:10:59,090 --> 01:11:04,160
And he said, "I'm going to spend
the rest of my life in jail
1045
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:06,830
"because they made me
sign this paper".
1046
01:11:06,830 --> 01:11:08,520
And I said, "What paper?"
1047
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:11,750
He didn't quite understand
because he was so upset himself.
1048
01:11:11,750 --> 01:11:17,240
And I said, "No, you won't". I said,
"Brenton, just pray and hold on".
1049
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:20,004
[MUFFLED SPEECH]
1050
01:11:28,390 --> 01:11:31,070
JUDGE: It may be necessary
just to get a complete
1051
01:11:31,070 --> 01:11:34,960
understanding of the conversation,
so I overrule the objection.
1052
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:39,509
So I told him to just pray
and hold on,
1053
01:11:39,509 --> 01:11:43,729
and that his dad and I would do
anything to get him out of there,
1054
01:11:43,729 --> 01:11:48,279
even mortgaging the house
to get him out of this.
1055
01:11:48,279 --> 01:11:49,644
Thank you.
1056
01:11:51,509 --> 01:11:55,399
OK, Miss Stair, you may proceed. -If
you need a break, just let us know.
1057
01:11:55,399 --> 01:11:57,509
I just want to clarify
a few things,
1058
01:11:57,509 --> 01:12:00,279
that's all I'm going to be
asking you about.
1059
01:12:00,279 --> 01:12:04,069
You indicated that the first time
you saw your son
1060
01:12:04,069 --> 01:12:06,179
he was still in his bedroom?
1061
01:12:06,179 --> 01:12:08,149
Yes, ma'am.
1062
01:12:08,149 --> 01:12:11,479
And you are basing the time that you
saw him on your regular pattern?
1063
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,969
Yeah. -You didn't look at a clock?
-No.
1064
01:12:13,969 --> 01:12:16,919
And I think you said... Now,
what time was it that you saw him
1065
01:12:16,919 --> 01:12:18,789
in the laundry room?
1066
01:12:18,789 --> 01:12:22,499
It was, um... Well, I was not
exactly in the laundry room,
1067
01:12:22,499 --> 01:12:23,999
I met him in the foyer area,
1068
01:12:23,999 --> 01:12:27,329
cos I was coming out of the hallway
leading to the foyer area.
1069
01:12:27,329 --> 01:12:29,809
But that's on the way
to the laundry room? -Yes.
1070
01:12:29,809 --> 01:12:32,109
OK, where you keep your
cleaning supplies? -Yes.
1071
01:12:32,109 --> 01:12:36,045
Your Honour,
I don't have any other questions.
1072
01:12:37,689 --> 01:12:41,339
Ma'am, you realise
you are under oath. -Yes.
1073
01:12:41,339 --> 01:12:44,199
Is there any question in your mind
that your son was home
1074
01:12:44,199 --> 01:12:47,669
between seven and nine
in the morning? -No question.
1075
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:50,651
- I know my son was home.
- Thank you, ma'am.
1076
01:13:04,169 --> 01:13:07,559
[INAUDIBLE]
1077
01:13:19,359 --> 01:13:22,089
[INAUDIBLE]
1078
01:13:46,499 --> 01:13:48,699
No, actually, he said he didn't.
1079
01:13:48,699 --> 01:13:50,999
I've got it.
1080
01:13:50,999 --> 01:13:53,909
They knew they didn't have a case.
1081
01:13:53,909 --> 01:14:01,919
The detective went in
and he wrote out what he wanted.
1082
01:14:01,919 --> 01:14:04,919
And he is a man who gets
what he wants.
1083
01:14:04,919 --> 01:14:09,659
And then he threatened
a 15-year-old boy and he poked him
1084
01:14:09,659 --> 01:14:16,838
and he displayed his gun and
he got him to sign a piece of paper.
1085
01:14:18,279 --> 01:14:21,279
It was a pathetic piece of paper
that made no sense,
1086
01:14:21,279 --> 01:14:26,069
that never has been since that day
supported in any way.
1087
01:14:27,569 --> 01:14:33,379
There is no truth in it. But it was
close enough for government work.
1088
01:14:33,379 --> 01:14:37,079
So you asked Detective Williams
about talking to the defendant.
1089
01:14:37,079 --> 01:14:41,159
Did you do so? -I did. -Was anybody
else with you? -No, just me.
1090
01:14:41,159 --> 01:14:43,689
Tell the jury
about your conversation.
1091
01:14:43,689 --> 01:14:47,249
I told them had a decision had been
made that he would be arrested
1092
01:14:47,249 --> 01:14:50,019
and charged with the murder
of Mary Ann Stevens.
1093
01:14:50,019 --> 01:14:52,359
I told him that we
would complete the paperwork
1094
01:14:52,359 --> 01:14:55,359
and that he would be incarcerated
at the juvenile shelter.
1095
01:14:55,359 --> 01:14:56,769
And what happened then?
1096
01:14:56,769 --> 01:14:59,789
Once I told him about the
incarceration, I told him that
1097
01:14:59,789 --> 01:15:02,629
if he wanted to tell his side
of the story, that this would be
1098
01:15:02,630 --> 01:15:04,830
his last opportunity to do so.
1099
01:15:04,929 --> 01:15:08,819
At that point, he touched my knee.
We were sitting face-to-face.
1100
01:15:08,819 --> 01:15:11,679
He said,
"When I talked to Detective Glover,
1101
01:15:11,679 --> 01:15:13,649
"he had told me
there was an easy road" -
1102
01:15:13,649 --> 01:15:17,209
and he touched my opposite knee -
"and there was a hard road".
1103
01:15:17,209 --> 01:15:19,739
I said, "Well, I wasn't present
for that interview
1104
01:15:19,739 --> 01:15:22,229
"and I'm not sure
what you're talking about,
1105
01:15:22,229 --> 01:15:25,509
"but as far as an easy road, I don't
see one. I only see a hard road,
1106
01:15:25,509 --> 01:15:27,189
"this is a very serious offence".
1107
01:15:27,189 --> 01:15:28,879
With that in mind, I asked him
1108
01:15:28,879 --> 01:15:31,929
if at this time he wanted to
present his side of the story.
1109
01:15:31,929 --> 01:15:33,429
He said he did.
1110
01:15:33,429 --> 01:15:36,799
I left the interview room,
I told him I had to get the forms.
1111
01:15:36,799 --> 01:15:39,899
I talked to Detective Williams,
who was still sitting at his desk.
1112
01:15:39,899 --> 01:15:42,849
I advised him that I was going
to take a written statement
1113
01:15:42,849 --> 01:15:45,429
that he had provided me with
his side of the story.
1114
01:15:45,429 --> 01:15:48,569
He said, OK. I said, "I need you
to go in the monitoring room
1115
01:15:48,569 --> 01:15:52,239
"and monitor the written statement so
you can witness the written statement".
1116
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:54,140
He said, "OK, fine".
1117
01:15:54,239 --> 01:15:57,339
What happened when you went
back into the interview room?
1118
01:15:57,339 --> 01:16:01,319
We recorded a written statement
on a Sheriff's Office form.
1119
01:16:01,319 --> 01:16:04,879
When we finished the statement,
we read it over together, out loud.
1120
01:16:04,879 --> 01:16:08,019
I asked him if he agreed to it,
and he said, yes.
1121
01:16:08,019 --> 01:16:10,929
He signs on the bottom of
each side of the statement,
1122
01:16:10,929 --> 01:16:14,489
attesting that this is his statement,
and at the end, I drew a diagonal line.
1123
01:16:14,489 --> 01:16:17,589
And he signed on that diagonal
line as well as on the bottom
1124
01:16:17,589 --> 01:16:20,119
where it says, "Statement made by".
1125
01:16:20,119 --> 01:16:23,349
Your Honour, I don't have any
other questions at this time. -OK.
1126
01:16:23,349 --> 01:16:25,897
Mr McGuinness,
you may cross-examine.
1127
01:16:27,529 --> 01:16:32,119
Before he came up for
cross-examination, there was a break.
1128
01:16:32,119 --> 01:16:36,149
I went out to have a cigarette,
and, as I pulled my cigarette out,
1129
01:16:36,149 --> 01:16:41,029
he looked at me - and there is no
love lost between us - and he said,
1130
01:16:41,029 --> 01:16:44,681
"Suck down another cancer stick".
1131
01:16:46,459 --> 01:16:51,199
I just looked at him and I said, "I
always enjoy a cigarette before sex".
1132
01:16:51,199 --> 01:16:55,795
Cos I wanted him to know...
I was going to screw him.
1133
01:16:57,719 --> 01:17:02,219
I don't think the message
was lost on him. And I did.
1134
01:17:02,219 --> 01:17:05,499
Now, initially,
when you spoke to him,
1135
01:17:05,499 --> 01:17:08,589
this young man was polite to you,
is that right? -Yes.
1136
01:17:08,589 --> 01:17:13,369
He was calm. -He was.
-He was well mannered. -Yes. -OK.
1137
01:17:13,369 --> 01:17:18,579
And then you and Williams started
calling him a liar, didn't you? -No.
1138
01:17:18,579 --> 01:17:23,259
- You never called him a liar?
- I told him I thought he was lying.
1139
01:17:23,259 --> 01:17:28,789
That wasn't my question. Did you call
him a liar or not, sir? -Indirectly.
1140
01:17:28,789 --> 01:17:31,329
OK. How about directly.
Did you do that?
1141
01:17:31,329 --> 01:17:33,999
I don't recall calling him
a liar directly.
1142
01:17:33,999 --> 01:17:39,809
- It's not in your notes.
- Probably not. I don't recall.
1143
01:17:39,809 --> 01:17:44,314
Does that happen with such frequency
you just don't take note of it?
1144
01:17:45,579 --> 01:17:50,499
- Objection, Your Honour.
- Overruled.
1145
01:17:50,499 --> 01:17:54,249
Does that happen with such frequency
you just don't take note of it, sir?
1146
01:17:54,249 --> 01:17:57,619
What is that?
-Calling people liars. -No.
1147
01:17:57,619 --> 01:17:59,499
I liked that.
1148
01:17:59,499 --> 01:18:06,479
I liked the fact that
I didn't believe these men
1149
01:18:06,479 --> 01:18:14,359
and I didn't respect them because of
what they had done, so... It puts you
1150
01:18:14,359 --> 01:18:19,524
in a fighting mood and makes you want
to show them to be what they are.
1151
01:18:22,659 --> 01:18:26,368
This is the first two pages
of the statement, OK? -Yes.
1152
01:18:28,139 --> 01:18:33,999
All this information up here, that's
in your handwriting? -Yes. -OK.
1153
01:18:33,999 --> 01:18:39,019
And, "I, Brenton Butler, am providing
this statement of my own free will,
1154
01:18:39,019 --> 01:18:41,269
"without any threat or promise".
1155
01:18:41,269 --> 01:18:44,549
- He didn't say that, right?
- Correct.
1156
01:18:44,549 --> 01:18:49,749
OK. And... "Detective Darnell is
writing this statement at my request".
1157
01:18:49,749 --> 01:18:51,637
- He didn't say that, right?
- Correct.
1158
01:18:54,299 --> 01:18:58,659
And virtually all of your statements
start out the same way, right?
1159
01:18:58,659 --> 01:19:02,779
They do. -Everybody just asks you
to write their statements, right?
1160
01:19:02,779 --> 01:19:08,319
- The ones that do.
- What percentage would that be?
1161
01:19:08,319 --> 01:19:10,659
I don't know statistics.
1162
01:19:10,659 --> 01:19:13,329
An extraordinarily high percentage,
wouldn't it?
1163
01:19:13,329 --> 01:19:15,349
I would say most asked me
to write, yes.
1164
01:19:15,349 --> 01:19:18,859
And is that because you have
remarkably good penmanship,
1165
01:19:18,859 --> 01:19:20,269
or... Do you know?
1166
01:19:20,269 --> 01:19:24,069
I just always assumed it was that they
were too lazy to write it themselves.
1167
01:19:24,069 --> 01:19:27,159
But you knew he could read
and write, right? -Sure.
1168
01:19:27,159 --> 01:19:29,789
Didn't you think it might be a good
idea to let him...
1169
01:19:29,789 --> 01:19:32,079
If you wanted his side of the story,
1170
01:19:32,079 --> 01:19:34,939
to let him put his own side
of the story down?
1171
01:19:34,939 --> 01:19:37,294
- This is his side of the story.
- OK.
1172
01:19:38,509 --> 01:19:43,526
"Last night, I got home late
and didn't get a chance to eat".
1173
01:19:45,579 --> 01:19:48,639
Did you ever check to see
if that was true? -No.
1174
01:19:49,899 --> 01:19:53,549
Did he look malnourished
when you were talking to him? -No.
1175
01:19:53,549 --> 01:19:56,789
And Detective Williams was over
in the monitoring room, was he?
1176
01:19:56,789 --> 01:19:59,319
Detective Williams
was in the monitoring room.
1177
01:19:59,319 --> 01:20:01,989
So he would have heard him
say all these things, right?
1178
01:20:01,989 --> 01:20:05,509
I can't testify as to what Detective
Williams heard. -As far as you knew,
1179
01:20:05,509 --> 01:20:08,369
the audio hook-up was still
working over there, right? -Yes.
1180
01:20:08,369 --> 01:20:09,909
"The woman gave me a mean look
1181
01:20:09,909 --> 01:20:13,289
"and mumbled 'nasty nigger'
under her breath".
1182
01:20:13,289 --> 01:20:18,209
As far as you know, did Mr Stevens
ever corroborate that in any way?
1183
01:20:18,209 --> 01:20:22,239
I've never talked to Mr Stevens
or interviewed him about this case.
1184
01:20:22,239 --> 01:20:24,869
But you've read the report
plenty of times, right?
1185
01:20:24,869 --> 01:20:29,556
- I've read what was relevant to me.
- Hmm. OK.
1186
01:20:31,099 --> 01:20:36,159
"And as I...
raised the gun from my pocket,
1187
01:20:36,159 --> 01:20:38,789
"quickly it went off".
1188
01:20:38,789 --> 01:20:41,089
- Is that something he said?
- Yes.
1189
01:20:41,089 --> 01:20:44,089
"I had pulled the trigger
unknowingly".
1190
01:20:44,089 --> 01:20:46,429
That was his language,
"unknowingly"?
1191
01:20:46,429 --> 01:20:49,809
No, he said he did not know
that he had pulled the trigger.
1192
01:20:49,809 --> 01:20:52,849
OK. So you just liked that word
better, right?
1193
01:20:52,849 --> 01:20:56,229
This was how I wrote it
when we formulated the sentence.
1194
01:20:56,229 --> 01:21:01,809
"I took the woman's money from her
wallet and put it in mine". Right?
1195
01:21:01,809 --> 01:21:06,779
Yes. -He said that, right?
-That is what he told me, yes.
1196
01:21:06,779 --> 01:21:09,309
"And I went home to feed my dog".
1197
01:21:09,309 --> 01:21:13,949
Did he say why it was so important
to feed the dog at that point?
1198
01:21:13,949 --> 01:21:16,709
I never got the impression
that was important.
1199
01:21:16,709 --> 01:21:19,669
That was just what he did
when he got home. -Mm.
1200
01:21:19,669 --> 01:21:23,279
Why go home if he had completed this
armed robbery and killed somebody?
1201
01:21:23,279 --> 01:21:25,249
- Did he say?
- No.
1202
01:21:25,249 --> 01:21:27,399
[LAWYER CLEARS THROAT]
1203
01:21:27,399 --> 01:21:32,229
"Later I was walking to Blockbuster
Video to get a job application".
1204
01:21:32,229 --> 01:21:33,499
Why did he need a job
1205
01:21:33,499 --> 01:21:37,059
if he had taken up this new career
as an armed robber? -I don't know.
1206
01:21:37,059 --> 01:21:40,109
OK. "When the police stopped me,
1207
01:21:40,109 --> 01:21:44,559
"the policeman asked me to come with
him to the Ramada Inn, which I did".
1208
01:21:44,559 --> 01:21:46,859
Did he say why
he went with the police
1209
01:21:46,859 --> 01:21:49,569
if he had just killed somebody
over there?
1210
01:21:49,569 --> 01:21:52,859
He just said he was asked
and he complied.
1211
01:21:52,859 --> 01:21:56,839
"Complied" - was that what he said?
-No, that is my word. -OK.
1212
01:21:56,839 --> 01:22:01,059
If we could, let's distinguish
between your words and his. OK?
1213
01:22:01,059 --> 01:22:05,139
"The man who was with the woman
I shot came to the car
1214
01:22:05,139 --> 01:22:08,369
"and told the police
I was the one who shot her".
1215
01:22:08,369 --> 01:22:10,719
- Right, he said that?
- Yes.
1216
01:22:10,719 --> 01:22:13,949
And he is saying this stuff
out loud, right?
1217
01:22:13,949 --> 01:22:18,639
- We are formulating sentences.
- Is he saying this stuff out loud?
1218
01:22:18,639 --> 01:22:23,189
Actually, I am saying this
and he is agreeing to it. -OK.
1219
01:22:23,189 --> 01:22:25,579
Which of these words
did he say out loud
1220
01:22:25,579 --> 01:22:28,859
that could be heard
in the monitoring room?
1221
01:22:28,859 --> 01:22:33,079
All of them. -OK. Whilst somebody
was in the monitoring room?
1222
01:22:33,079 --> 01:22:34,659
Detective Williams was in there.
1223
01:22:34,660 --> 01:22:37,760
So he would have heard him say
all of these words, is that right?
1224
01:22:37,859 --> 01:22:44,059
- The video monitoring room.
- Where is the video monitoring room?
1225
01:22:48,869 --> 01:22:51,359
Did you hear him ask
Detective Darnell
1226
01:22:51,359 --> 01:22:53,749
to write the statement out for him?
1227
01:22:53,749 --> 01:22:55,719
- No, sir.
- Did you hear him say,
1228
01:22:55,719 --> 01:22:59,469
"Last night, I got home late
and I didn't get a chance to eat"?
1229
01:22:59,469 --> 01:23:02,049
- Did you hear the defendant say that?
- No, sir.
1230
01:23:02,049 --> 01:23:05,239
Did he ever say, "I approached
an older white man and woman
1231
01:23:05,239 --> 01:23:06,919
"and asked for spare change"?
1232
01:23:06,919 --> 01:23:09,409
- Did you hear him say that?
- No, sir, I did not.
1233
01:23:09,409 --> 01:23:13,859
During that portion of conversation
you monitored with Darnell,
1234
01:23:13,859 --> 01:23:18,499
did he ever describe,
with any particularity,
1235
01:23:18,499 --> 01:23:21,779
the clothing of the lady
he supposedly shot?
1236
01:23:21,779 --> 01:23:23,659
I never heard him say that, sir.
1237
01:23:23,659 --> 01:23:27,698
While monitoring Darnell, did you ever
hear him say he shot anybody? -No, sir.
1238
01:23:30,969 --> 01:23:35,469
OK. Now, since that time and
in the six months that followed,
1239
01:23:35,469 --> 01:23:37,669
which of the facts asserted in here
1240
01:23:37,669 --> 01:23:40,109
have you been able to verify
in any way?
1241
01:23:40,109 --> 01:23:43,215
I have not attempted
to verify any of them.
1242
01:23:50,329 --> 01:23:51,359
Thank you, sir.
1243
01:23:51,359 --> 01:23:54,409
# Don't leave me alone, Lord
1244
01:23:54,409 --> 01:23:57,833
# Don't leave me alone
1245
01:24:00,079 --> 01:24:07,719
# While I'm on this tedious journey
Oh, Lord
1246
01:24:07,719 --> 01:24:11,749
# I want Jesus
1247
01:24:11,749 --> 01:24:15,651
# To walk with me ##
1248
01:24:25,209 --> 01:24:28,116
We come with thanksgiving
in our hearts. -Yes, Lord.
1249
01:24:28,116 --> 01:24:32,996
Today, we lift up your holy name.
1250
01:24:32,996 --> 01:24:35,106
We thank you, Lord.
1251
01:24:35,106 --> 01:24:38,530
Bless us and hold us and keep us.
1252
01:24:38,576 --> 01:24:40,166
In Jesus Christ's name we pray.
1253
01:24:40,166 --> 01:24:41,996
Thank you, Lord. -Amen.
1254
01:24:41,996 --> 01:24:43,452
CONGREGATION: Amen.
1255
01:24:55,916 --> 01:24:59,756
I will probably go to sleep
about ten.
1256
01:24:59,756 --> 01:25:03,326
I'll probably get up about 2:30.
1257
01:25:03,326 --> 01:25:05,436
Then I will take all the notes
1258
01:25:05,436 --> 01:25:08,056
I have made over the weeks
and months
1259
01:25:08,056 --> 01:25:11,719
and I will start
a distillation process, you know?
1260
01:25:12,796 --> 01:25:16,116
Throwing out the things that I think
either are not compelling
1261
01:25:16,116 --> 01:25:20,196
or not important enough to use any
portion of my hour and a half on.
1262
01:25:20,196 --> 01:25:24,226
Boiling it down to the facts
that I think work best for us
1263
01:25:24,226 --> 01:25:26,526
and then trying to couch those facts
1264
01:25:26,526 --> 01:25:29,336
in a way that will be compelling
to the jury,
1265
01:25:29,336 --> 01:25:31,315
that will ring true with them.
1266
01:25:36,416 --> 01:25:39,416
Are these things we have heard
worthy of belief?
1267
01:25:39,416 --> 01:25:42,186
Are they consistent
with what other witnesses say?
1268
01:25:42,186 --> 01:25:44,856
Are they consistent
with the physical evidence?
1269
01:25:44,856 --> 01:25:48,046
Are the things the detective said
true or false
1270
01:25:48,046 --> 01:25:49,826
and, if so, how do we tell?
1271
01:25:49,826 --> 01:25:54,656
This jury tomorrow
could well come back against me.
1272
01:25:54,656 --> 01:25:57,986
When I say against me,
I take it personally.
1273
01:25:57,986 --> 01:26:00,556
The man - or boy, in this case -
1274
01:26:00,556 --> 01:26:03,559
who will suffer is Brenton Butler.
1275
01:26:04,736 --> 01:26:09,606
He could well suffer with the loss
of liberty for the rest of his life.
1276
01:26:09,606 --> 01:26:12,846
Um... that is
a very frightening thing.
1277
01:26:12,846 --> 01:26:15,895
I believe, in my heart of hearts,
that he is innocent.
1278
01:26:17,626 --> 01:26:20,206
I am not allowed to say that
to the jury.
1279
01:26:20,206 --> 01:26:23,246
I can't tell them
that I believe that.
1280
01:26:23,246 --> 01:26:26,113
I can tell them that the
evidence shows that.
1281
01:26:28,126 --> 01:26:32,156
And they may or may not agree
with my view of the evidence, and,
1282
01:26:32,156 --> 01:26:34,181
if they disagree,
1283
01:26:37,316 --> 01:26:39,102
I don't know what I will do.
1284
01:26:40,176 --> 01:26:45,102
This is not a loss
I will be able to take easily.
1285
01:26:48,466 --> 01:26:53,816
Ladies and gentlemen, the defendant
Brenton Butler shot and killed
1286
01:26:53,816 --> 01:26:59,676
Mary Anne Stevens during an armed
robbery on May 7th of this year.
1287
01:26:59,676 --> 01:27:04,686
The State must prove the material
elements of this charge
1288
01:27:04,686 --> 01:27:09,326
beyond a reasonable doubt,
and I submit that we have.
1289
01:27:09,326 --> 01:27:13,786
We have an eyewitness,
a person who was right there
1290
01:27:13,786 --> 01:27:17,536
and watched the defendant,
Brenton Butler,
1291
01:27:17,536 --> 01:27:21,146
shoot his wife
right in front of his eyes.
1292
01:27:21,146 --> 01:27:23,816
Four to five seconds...
1293
01:27:23,816 --> 01:27:27,986
it is an eternity
when facing a man with a gun.
1294
01:27:27,986 --> 01:27:32,156
You recall Miss Finnell counting.
Well, I tell you it's this:
1295
01:27:32,156 --> 01:27:35,396
1,000, 2,000,
1296
01:27:35,396 --> 01:27:40,736
3,000, 4,000, 5,000,
1297
01:27:40,736 --> 01:27:45,616
looking directly at the man holding
a gun and shooting your wife.
1298
01:27:45,616 --> 01:27:49,696
Mr Stevens is a man
who is 65 years old.
1299
01:27:49,696 --> 01:27:52,366
He told you about all of his
life experiences,
1300
01:27:52,366 --> 01:27:56,446
and I submit to you
that when he looked at that person,
1301
01:27:56,446 --> 01:28:00,616
and then he saw the defendant
two and a half hours later,
1302
01:28:00,616 --> 01:28:04,696
that he identified him as he said,
"I am sure of it.
1303
01:28:04,696 --> 01:28:08,206
"I would not put
an innocent man in jail".
1304
01:28:08,206 --> 01:28:11,256
Now, let's talk about the alibi.
1305
01:28:11,256 --> 01:28:15,756
The murder of Mrs Stevens
occurred around 7:30 in the morning
1306
01:28:15,756 --> 01:28:18,056
on Sunday the 7th.
1307
01:28:18,056 --> 01:28:20,626
The defendant lives less than
one mile away.
1308
01:28:20,626 --> 01:28:24,946
What does it take? Less than five
minutes to get away from the scene
1309
01:28:24,946 --> 01:28:27,756
and then five or ten more minutes
to get home.
1310
01:28:27,756 --> 01:28:30,806
We're not talking about
a very long distance.
1311
01:28:30,806 --> 01:28:33,056
Now, according to his mother,
1312
01:28:33,056 --> 01:28:35,866
between 7:00 and 7:15 she hears
1313
01:28:35,866 --> 01:28:37,696
the defendant in the bathroom,
1314
01:28:37,696 --> 01:28:42,006
and then around eight
he is coming from the laundry room.
1315
01:28:42,006 --> 01:28:45,056
Think about that.
That is according to his mother.
1316
01:28:45,056 --> 01:28:47,726
Sometime around eight o'clock -
1317
01:28:47,726 --> 01:28:50,916
30 minutes after
Mrs Stevens was shot.
1318
01:28:50,916 --> 01:28:54,056
Let's talk about the confession.
1319
01:28:54,056 --> 01:28:57,336
The defendant says
he never made those statements.
1320
01:28:57,336 --> 01:29:01,836
Not that they are not voluntary.
He never made them.
1321
01:29:01,836 --> 01:29:05,536
That is what the defendant
claims about this.
1322
01:29:05,536 --> 01:29:10,836
Now, I tell you, the claims
in this case are outrageous.
1323
01:29:10,836 --> 01:29:13,136
They are horrible.
They are horrendous.
1324
01:29:13,136 --> 01:29:18,056
To claim that these police officers
beat this 15-year-old
1325
01:29:18,056 --> 01:29:22,136
until he DIDN'T confess but finally
signed the written confession,
1326
01:29:22,136 --> 01:29:25,696
they are horrible. If you believe
those after this trial,
1327
01:29:25,696 --> 01:29:28,506
I urge you to call the media,
1328
01:29:28,506 --> 01:29:32,966
call the FBI, call anybody.
They are outrageous.
1329
01:29:32,966 --> 01:29:38,396
But I submit to you,
to believe those allegations
1330
01:29:38,396 --> 01:29:43,796
you need to believe in a conspiracy
worthy of Oliver Stone.
1331
01:29:43,796 --> 01:29:46,746
Look at this person.
1332
01:29:46,746 --> 01:29:49,276
This is a person who confessed,
1333
01:29:49,276 --> 01:29:53,496
who told his side of the story,
as Detective Glover talked about.
1334
01:29:53,496 --> 01:29:57,756
Mr McGuinness is going to have
an opportunity to talk to you,
1335
01:29:57,756 --> 01:30:02,356
and I want you, as he talks, to
think about the things I have said.
1336
01:30:02,356 --> 01:30:04,886
But I submit to you that first,
1337
01:30:04,886 --> 01:30:08,826
if you just look at Mr Stevens's
identification,
1338
01:30:08,826 --> 01:30:10,936
right there,
1339
01:30:10,936 --> 01:30:15,666
the one eyewitness positively
identified the defendant.
1340
01:30:15,666 --> 01:30:19,516
Identified him by his face.
1341
01:30:19,516 --> 01:30:23,966
And that alone proves our case
beyond a reasonable doubt.
1342
01:30:23,966 --> 01:30:25,046
Thank you.
1343
01:30:26,266 --> 01:30:28,416
Winston Churchill used to say
1344
01:30:28,416 --> 01:30:31,186
that the quality
of a nation's civilisation
1345
01:30:31,186 --> 01:30:34,696
can be measured
by the methods its police use
1346
01:30:34,696 --> 01:30:36,391
in enforcement of criminal laws.
1347
01:30:37,696 --> 01:30:41,166
I suggest to you, by that yardstick,
1348
01:30:41,166 --> 01:30:43,186
we're in deep trouble.
1349
01:30:43,186 --> 01:30:46,416
Ask yourselves what you know
about this investigation.
1350
01:30:46,416 --> 01:30:49,936
Are you satisfied?
Can you be satisfied?
1351
01:30:49,936 --> 01:30:54,726
Can you ratify and endorse and
condone what happened in this case?
1352
01:30:56,076 --> 01:30:58,186
I think, based on the evidence, not.
1353
01:30:58,186 --> 01:31:00,906
The police had a problem.
1354
01:31:00,906 --> 01:31:04,466
At this motel, there was a murder.
1355
01:31:04,466 --> 01:31:08,826
It was a stranger murder. They are
the most difficult to solve.
1356
01:31:08,826 --> 01:31:12,296
It requires diligent police work.
1357
01:31:12,296 --> 01:31:15,626
It requires attention to detail.
1358
01:31:15,626 --> 01:31:19,236
It requires an appreciation
of the forensic evidence.
1359
01:31:19,236 --> 01:31:21,436
It requires careful analysis.
1360
01:31:21,436 --> 01:31:23,786
It didn't happen here.
1361
01:31:23,786 --> 01:31:26,036
But what did the police do?
1362
01:31:26,036 --> 01:31:29,596
In Casablanca, they had the line,
"Round up the usual suspects".
1363
01:31:29,596 --> 01:31:31,516
What they did,
1364
01:31:31,516 --> 01:31:34,576
is they went looking
for black people.
1365
01:31:36,206 --> 01:31:40,746
And two and one half hours
after this shooting,
1366
01:31:40,746 --> 01:31:44,036
a 15-year-old boy was on his way
1367
01:31:44,036 --> 01:31:46,146
to get a job application.
1368
01:31:46,146 --> 01:31:50,546
A young man that works.
That has worked in the past.
1369
01:31:50,546 --> 01:31:53,646
That pays for his own clothes
and his CDs.
1370
01:31:53,646 --> 01:31:56,546
That the State would have you
believe, at age 15,
1371
01:31:56,546 --> 01:31:59,786
he gets up, has his yoghurt,
decides to go kill somebody,
1372
01:31:59,786 --> 01:32:02,076
kills them,
1373
01:32:02,076 --> 01:32:05,036
comes home and feeds the dog.
1374
01:32:05,036 --> 01:32:08,226
Somebody who has never,
in his lifetime,
1375
01:32:08,226 --> 01:32:09,906
been seen by anybody with a gun.
1376
01:32:09,906 --> 01:32:13,616
Now, Mr Stevens made
an identification.
1377
01:32:13,616 --> 01:32:16,376
He made an identification of a man
1378
01:32:16,376 --> 01:32:21,256
four inches shorter than
the person he'd described,
1379
01:32:21,256 --> 01:32:23,269
five to ten years younger...
1380
01:32:24,766 --> 01:32:26,745
...who was...
1381
01:32:31,516 --> 01:32:35,555
...wearing a shirt where the absolute
most noticeable thing about it...
1382
01:32:37,896 --> 01:32:39,906
...is the Nautica logo.
1383
01:32:39,906 --> 01:32:41,596
The man who wielded that gun
1384
01:32:41,596 --> 01:32:44,316
would have had to have the gun
at least at chest height
1385
01:32:44,316 --> 01:32:47,836
to get the angle of entry
that the doctor described.
1386
01:32:47,836 --> 01:32:50,596
The gun would have been
right there.
1387
01:32:50,596 --> 01:32:53,266
This logo cannot be missed
1388
01:32:53,266 --> 01:32:56,372
from 2.5 feet looking at someone,
if it's there.
1389
01:32:57,486 --> 01:33:00,066
But that very same identification
1390
01:33:00,066 --> 01:33:02,836
created some real problems
for the police.
1391
01:33:02,836 --> 01:33:06,635
Their only eyewitness
is wholeheartedly committed
1392
01:33:06,635 --> 01:33:10,947
to an identification that
if they were going to make a case...
1393
01:33:12,355 --> 01:33:14,695
...they had to make that come true.
1394
01:33:14,695 --> 01:33:18,313
And they have the television crews
out there already.
1395
01:33:19,435 --> 01:33:23,235
They had a case they knew was going
to get a lot of attention,
1396
01:33:23,235 --> 01:33:27,825
because you had a white victim,
a black shooter,
1397
01:33:27,825 --> 01:33:29,895
a tourist in Florida.
1398
01:33:31,995 --> 01:33:37,155
And that media attention,
the racial aspects of it...
1399
01:33:37,155 --> 01:33:40,625
the pressures on the police...
1400
01:33:40,625 --> 01:33:44,845
I think coloured everything
that happened later that day.
1401
01:33:44,845 --> 01:33:49,955
Why was everybody distancing
themselves from Glover in the woods?
1402
01:33:49,955 --> 01:33:55,302
Here is the fellow who claims he has
the man who knows where the gun is.
1403
01:33:56,655 --> 01:33:58,675
They're going to the woods.
1404
01:33:58,675 --> 01:34:01,575
And Glover went deep in that woods.
1405
01:34:01,575 --> 01:34:05,845
He went out of earshot
and eyesight of everybody.
1406
01:34:05,845 --> 01:34:07,715
Without any lights.
1407
01:34:07,715 --> 01:34:10,491
But he's looking for a gun, he says.
1408
01:34:13,995 --> 01:34:19,205
And he punched a 15-year-old boy
in the gut,
1409
01:34:19,205 --> 01:34:20,325
twice.
1410
01:34:20,325 --> 01:34:21,883
And once in the eye.
1411
01:34:24,315 --> 01:34:27,355
Think about why Glover
was brought in.
1412
01:34:27,355 --> 01:34:29,815
What does the evidence tell us his
most distinguished achievement was
1413
01:34:29,816 --> 01:34:32,416
before his father became sheriff,
1414
01:34:32,515 --> 01:34:34,975
and suddenly, they realised his
potential as a homicide detective.
1415
01:34:34,976 --> 01:34:37,476
Cos he sure wasn't one before then.
1416
01:34:37,575 --> 01:34:40,775
Before that, his most noteworthy
achievement was hitting people
1417
01:34:40,776 --> 01:34:42,776
and hitting them well.
1418
01:34:42,875 --> 01:34:47,705
Objection, Your Honour!
May I approach? -You may.
1419
01:34:47,705 --> 01:34:50,663
Will our reporter please join us?
1420
01:34:53,655 --> 01:34:58,592
You may have noticed, when Detective
Glover was on the stand...
1421
01:35:00,315 --> 01:35:01,964
he's a right-handed man.
1422
01:35:04,435 --> 01:35:07,165
And when a right-handed man...
1423
01:35:10,585 --> 01:35:12,268
...hits a man he's facing,
1424
01:35:14,475 --> 01:35:16,124
which side is he going to hit?
1425
01:35:17,985 --> 01:35:22,595
We know that Brenton Butler
went into police custody unmarred
1426
01:35:22,596 --> 01:35:24,596
and unscratched.
1427
01:35:25,905 --> 01:35:28,157
We know he didn't emerge that way.
1428
01:35:30,275 --> 01:35:32,595
We spent hours talking to witnesses
1429
01:35:32,596 --> 01:35:35,796
who would reluctantly
give up bits of the truth,
1430
01:35:35,895 --> 01:35:38,615
a little bit at a time.
1431
01:35:38,615 --> 01:35:40,071
But you now know
1432
01:35:42,175 --> 01:35:45,255
what Detective Williams should have
known, had he bothered to check,
1433
01:35:45,256 --> 01:35:46,856
the morning of May 7th.
1434
01:35:46,955 --> 01:35:51,085
And I believe it reveals something
very frightening.
1435
01:35:51,085 --> 01:35:52,165
There is still
1436
01:35:52,165 --> 01:35:53,565
a man out there.
1437
01:35:53,565 --> 01:35:56,895
That man is 20-25 years of age.
1438
01:35:56,895 --> 01:35:59,845
He is probably about six feet
in height.
1439
01:35:59,845 --> 01:36:02,705
He has a collar on his shirt.
1440
01:36:02,705 --> 01:36:05,755
He still has a functioning gun.
1441
01:36:05,755 --> 01:36:11,995
And because no diligent effort was
made in the investigation in this case,
1442
01:36:11,995 --> 01:36:15,835
likely some other citizen
will come to harm,
1443
01:36:15,835 --> 01:36:20,340
because the work wasn't done when
and how it should have been done.
1444
01:36:22,075 --> 01:36:25,545
I ask you each individually
and collectively,
1445
01:36:25,546 --> 01:36:28,346
tacked with fidelity to your oaths,
1446
01:36:28,445 --> 01:36:32,154
to well and truly try
the issues in this case.
1447
01:36:33,885 --> 01:36:36,045
And I suggest that if you do,
1448
01:36:36,046 --> 01:36:41,146
this will truly be a thanksgiving
this week for Chevy Drive.
1449
01:36:41,245 --> 01:36:43,679
I thank you for your kind attention.
1450
01:36:47,805 --> 01:36:51,605
We want everybody to be fresh, we
want everybody to be clear of mind.
1451
01:36:51,605 --> 01:36:55,215
So what we'll do in just a moment
is we'll recess for the evening.
1452
01:36:55,215 --> 01:36:58,685
We'll come back. I will for sure
have everything ready to go.
1453
01:36:58,685 --> 01:37:02,621
So you are released. We'll see you
at 9am outside courtroom number four.
1454
01:37:54,555 --> 01:37:59,525
We have all our trust in the Lord
and if it weren't for the Lord,
1455
01:37:59,525 --> 01:38:03,185
we don't know where
we would have been by now.
1456
01:38:03,185 --> 01:38:06,939
And so it's no mistake.
The Lord don't make mistakes.
1457
01:38:08,055 --> 01:38:12,185
And so we're going to be here.
We're here,
1458
01:38:12,185 --> 01:38:16,165
and the Lord's going to be in that
courtroom. He gon' be in that courtroom.
1459
01:38:16,165 --> 01:38:20,765
And you talking about when they
allow you to come home,
1460
01:38:20,765 --> 01:38:22,705
when you are set free -
1461
01:38:22,706 --> 01:38:26,006
you going to talk about some
hallelujah good time in there?
1462
01:38:26,105 --> 01:38:29,665
You going to be shouting?
They gonna run us out.
1463
01:38:29,665 --> 01:38:31,775
They going to run us out.
1464
01:38:31,775 --> 01:38:35,015
Cos when you get all these Christians
together and they going
1465
01:38:35,016 --> 01:38:37,216
to be having a joyous good time.
1466
01:38:37,315 --> 01:38:40,182
They going to be thanking
and praising the Lord.
1467
01:38:43,315 --> 01:38:46,685
Brenton Leonard Butler,
the defendant in this case,
1468
01:38:46,685 --> 01:38:48,737
has been accused of the crimes
1469
01:38:48,738 --> 01:38:52,738
of murder in the first degree
and armed robbery.
1470
01:38:53,815 --> 01:38:57,185
If you find Mary Ann Stevens was
killed by Brenton Leonard Butler,
1471
01:38:57,185 --> 01:38:58,985
you will then consider
1472
01:38:58,986 --> 01:39:01,586
the circumstances
surrounding the killing
1473
01:39:01,685 --> 01:39:06,465
in deciding if the killing was
first degree murder,
1474
01:39:06,465 --> 01:39:09,095
or was murder in the second degree,
1475
01:39:09,096 --> 01:39:12,796
murder in the third degree,
manslaughter,
1476
01:39:12,895 --> 01:39:15,063
or whether the killing was excusable
1477
01:39:15,064 --> 01:39:18,664
or resulted from justifiable use
of deadly force.
1478
01:39:20,395 --> 01:39:23,415
A reasonable doubt is not a mere
possible doubt,
1479
01:39:23,416 --> 01:39:27,416
a speculative,
imaginary, or forced doubt.
1480
01:39:27,515 --> 01:39:29,795
A reasonable doubt
as to the guilt of the defendant
1481
01:39:29,796 --> 01:39:32,296
may arise from the evidence,
1482
01:39:32,395 --> 01:39:36,285
conflict in the evidence,
or the lack of evidence.
1483
01:39:36,285 --> 01:39:41,295
If you have a reasonable doubt, you
should find the defendant not guilty.
1484
01:39:41,295 --> 01:39:45,846
If you have no reasonable doubt, you
should find the defendant guilty.
1485
01:40:18,895 --> 01:40:24,197
[MURMURING PRAYERS]
1486
01:40:45,235 --> 01:40:46,702
ALL: Amen.
1487
01:41:03,996 --> 01:41:06,285
If you're here
for the Brenton Butler case,
1488
01:41:06,285 --> 01:41:09,195
if you would please
re-enter the courtroom quietly.
1489
01:41:09,195 --> 01:41:11,356
Your jury has reached a verdict.
1490
01:41:16,505 --> 01:41:18,935
We have a verdict, if you want
to come over.
1491
01:41:18,936 --> 01:41:21,236
And let Sue or anybody else
who's interested know.
1492
01:41:21,335 --> 01:41:22,791
Bye.
1493
01:41:25,885 --> 01:41:29,309
MAN: What did it mean?
Did he tell you 45 minutes?
1494
01:41:31,465 --> 01:41:35,165
Means they've either found for us
or against us.
1495
01:41:35,165 --> 01:41:36,905
I'm hoping it's for us.
1496
01:41:53,215 --> 01:41:56,086
Is everyone who is outside
and following the trial here
1497
01:41:56,087 --> 01:41:58,787
and had an opportunity to be present?
1498
01:41:58,886 --> 01:42:01,098
Mr Stevens is here,
and the Butler family is here.
1499
01:42:01,099 --> 01:42:03,699
Are we ready to proceed, counsel?
1500
01:42:07,506 --> 01:42:10,191
OK, then.
Let's bring the jury back in.
1501
01:42:28,975 --> 01:42:32,875
- Mr Young, are you the foreperson?
- Yes, I am.
1502
01:42:32,875 --> 01:42:35,125
- Has the jury reached a verdict?
- Yes, we have.
1503
01:42:35,125 --> 01:42:37,635
I'm going to hand the verdict forms
to our clerk
1504
01:42:37,636 --> 01:42:39,336
and ask that she publish the verdicts.
1505
01:42:39,435 --> 01:42:41,635
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury,
1506
01:42:41,636 --> 01:42:44,636
I want you to please stand
and hearken to your voting.
1507
01:42:44,735 --> 01:42:49,375
In the circuit court of the Florida
justice circuit in Duval County, Florida,
1508
01:42:49,375 --> 01:42:52,955
case number 2563 5CF, division CRG,
1509
01:42:52,956 --> 01:42:57,056
the State of Florida
versus Brenton Leonard Butler,
1510
01:42:57,155 --> 01:43:01,185
verdict as to count 1, we the jury
find the defendant not guilty.
1511
01:43:01,185 --> 01:43:03,575
[CHEERING AND WHOOPING]
1512
01:43:03,575 --> 01:43:05,525
I ask you, please, everyone...
1513
01:43:05,526 --> 01:43:07,926
please maintain decorum
in the courtroom. Thank you.
1514
01:43:08,025 --> 01:43:11,255
Case number 2563 5CF, division CRG,
1515
01:43:11,256 --> 01:43:14,256
the State of Florida
versus Brenton Leonard Butler,
1516
01:43:14,355 --> 01:43:18,386
verdict as to count 2, we the jury
find the defendant not guilty.
1517
01:43:18,386 --> 01:43:21,525
So say we all at Jacksonville,
Duval County Florida.
1518
01:43:21,525 --> 01:43:25,885
Signed by the foreperson,
dated November 21st, 2000.
1519
01:43:25,885 --> 01:43:29,635
OK. Does either counsel wish the
jury to be polled? -PROSECUTOR: No.
1520
01:43:29,635 --> 01:43:32,215
OK. Ladies and gentlemen,
please be seated.
1521
01:43:32,215 --> 01:43:35,925
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for
your time and patience in this matter.
1522
01:43:35,925 --> 01:43:39,206
I hope you all come away from this
with a sense that you really have
1523
01:43:39,206 --> 01:43:41,685
done something to contribute
to the community,
1524
01:43:41,685 --> 01:43:43,565
to the criminal justice system.
1525
01:43:43,565 --> 01:43:47,176
I hope that you have some pride
in the sense of the process
1526
01:43:47,176 --> 01:43:48,726
and pride in the way
1527
01:43:48,727 --> 01:43:52,227
that you have contributed to that
and participated in our system,
1528
01:43:52,326 --> 01:43:55,796
which I think is
the best legal system in the world.
1529
01:44:00,345 --> 01:44:02,767
[DIALOGUE INDISTINCT]
1530
01:44:04,936 --> 01:44:07,375
[INDISTINCT]
1531
01:44:07,375 --> 01:44:08,649
Yeah.
1532
01:44:11,686 --> 01:44:13,517
You did good work.
1533
01:44:25,096 --> 01:44:26,745
Take care, gentlemen. Thank you.
1534
01:44:28,375 --> 01:44:30,866
Here he comes.
1535
01:44:32,975 --> 01:44:34,988
[INDISTINCT]
1536
01:44:38,546 --> 01:44:40,662
[WEEPING]
1537
01:45:05,695 --> 01:45:07,375
I am very happy
1538
01:45:07,375 --> 01:45:10,845
that a good young man has been
returned to his family for Thanksgiving.
1539
01:45:17,645 --> 01:45:22,056
Yeah! Not guilty, not guilty,
not guilty! Yeah, yay!
1540
01:45:22,056 --> 01:45:24,399
Not guilty!
1541
01:45:27,775 --> 01:45:30,027
[INDISTINCT]
1542
01:45:56,456 --> 01:45:59,176
There is still a man out there.
1543
01:45:59,176 --> 01:46:01,756
That man is 20-25 years of age.
1544
01:46:01,756 --> 01:46:04,486
He is probably about six feet
in height.
1545
01:46:06,772 --> 01:46:09,084
He still has a functioning gun
1546
01:46:09,085 --> 01:46:13,585
because the work wasn't done when
and how it should have been done.
1547
01:46:21,783 --> 01:46:26,043
Stay right here for your news.
This is ABC 25.
1548
01:46:26,043 --> 01:46:29,893
Well, he was a high school student
accused of murder, tried and acquitted.
1549
01:46:29,893 --> 01:46:33,353
Now, a year later,
police say they had the wrong guy.
1550
01:46:33,353 --> 01:46:36,063
Our reporter Winston Dean
is at the Ramada Hotel,
1551
01:46:36,064 --> 01:46:37,664
where this crime happened.
1552
01:46:37,763 --> 01:46:40,852
Winston, tell us more about the man
who put it all together.
1553
01:46:40,852 --> 01:46:44,143
We understand it wasn't
anyone in law enforcement?
1554
01:46:44,143 --> 01:46:46,153
You are right about that, Allen.
1555
01:46:46,154 --> 01:46:49,154
And critics of what happened to
Brenton Butler say the scary part is,
1556
01:46:49,253 --> 01:46:51,443
the person who may have solved this crime
1557
01:46:51,444 --> 01:46:53,044
doesn't wear a badge or carry a gun.
1558
01:46:53,143 --> 01:46:56,052
It was a lawyer whose salary
we as taxpayers have to pay -
1559
01:46:56,053 --> 01:46:58,053
someone who never gave up.
1560
01:46:58,152 --> 01:47:01,012
In this case,
Brenton Butler's public defender.
1561
01:47:01,012 --> 01:47:06,040
The first week of January, we got
a tip from a public defender client.
1562
01:47:08,093 --> 01:47:13,482
Told us that he'd been in a cell
of a man Juan Curtis.
1563
01:47:13,482 --> 01:47:17,703
This fellow, Juan Curtis,
had admitted being the shooter,
1564
01:47:17,703 --> 01:47:20,193
shooting Mrs Stevens in the face,
1565
01:47:20,193 --> 01:47:23,140
because Mrs Stevens had thrown
a cup of coffee on him
1566
01:47:23,141 --> 01:47:25,541
during the course of the robbery.
1567
01:47:29,753 --> 01:47:32,983
After the trial, the original
trial in this case,
1568
01:47:32,983 --> 01:47:37,818
we retrieved the purse
from Mr Stevens
1569
01:47:39,503 --> 01:47:41,473
and we processed for evidence
1570
01:47:41,473 --> 01:47:45,642
all parts of the purse that
had not been previously processed.
1571
01:47:45,642 --> 01:47:51,262
We have discovered a fingerprint
that belongs to Juan Curtis,
1572
01:47:51,262 --> 01:47:53,753
the shooter in the offence.
1573
01:48:08,613 --> 01:48:09,693
Juan Curtis.
1574
01:48:09,693 --> 01:48:13,812
Mr Curtis, you're charged
with murder and armed robbery.
1575
01:48:13,812 --> 01:48:17,143
Mr Curtis, you want me to appoint
an attorney to represent you?
1576
01:48:17,143 --> 01:48:18,553
Sign that form.
1577
01:48:21,783 --> 01:48:24,802
You meet the criteria for
appointment of counsel,
1578
01:48:24,803 --> 01:48:28,103
and I appoint Refik Eler
to represent you,
1579
01:48:28,202 --> 01:48:33,603
and he will be in touch with you
at the Duval County Jail.
1580
01:48:33,603 --> 01:48:34,956
Ronald Page?
1581
01:48:40,393 --> 01:48:46,353
POLICE RADIO: 'It's gonna be a skinny
black male wearing dark shorts, shirt,
1582
01:48:46,353 --> 01:48:48,923
'had on a hat'.
1583
01:48:48,923 --> 01:48:51,443
'Latest update is a black male,
1584
01:48:51,444 --> 01:48:55,344
20-25 years of age
with skinny legs, about 6'2...'
1585
01:48:55,443 --> 01:48:57,923
'Could be him, could be anybody'.138212
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.