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Ladies and gentlemen,
I am pleased to present

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one of the women in the struggle
in South Africa

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who stood not behind their men,

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but for many years in front of them
while their husbands were in prison.

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And I ask you to share our excitement

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in enjoying the company
of Mrs. Winnie Mandela.

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At the back entrance
to the Pretoria Court,

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large crowds gather
to watch the accused

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being driven away to start
their life sentences.

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Mandela and seven fellow prisoners

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accused with him of sabotage

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were all condemned to life imprisonment

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after a trial that lasted eight months.

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The government has crushed a plot

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to overthrow the South African
government by sabotage and revolution

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with Communist assistance.

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Mrs. Mandela,
what are your feelings today

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after the life sentence
passed on your husband?

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Well, I am slightly relieved.
It could have been far worse than this.

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In fact, my people and I expected death
sentences for all the accused.

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It was actually scary
to visualize the future.

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We were all caught up
in that war of liberation.

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The self no longer mattered.
The country came first.

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When they were incarcerated,

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on hindsight,
they actually looked after our leaders,

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because from then on, the violence
we witnessed in the country

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was untold, and one doesn’t know
what would’ve happened

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to the leadership
if they were out there with us.

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We were the cannon fodder.

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We were the foot soldiers.
And we were vulnerable.

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We were exposed to
the viciousness of apartheid.

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When they were
incarcerated on Robben Island...

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we were allowed one visit in six months.

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We hardly actually knew each other.

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We married in June 1958.

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It’s like it happened yesterday.

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I was just a young girl.

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I just qualified as a social worker,

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and he asked me to help them
raise funds for the Treason Trial.

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We oscillated towards each other,
and that was it.

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We were great lovers.

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He was banned
and confined to Johannesburg,

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so he had to get permission to travel
to my rural home, where we got married.

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I came from a family of 11.

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My father was a school principal.

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He had a tremendous influence on me.

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He would tell us about our ancestors
fighting for their land

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because these people
had come to grab our country.

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That is probably what made Winnie...

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to be who she is today.

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Winnie threw
her entire weight into the struggle

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in every conceivable way.

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Winnie worked for the ANC.

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Of course, that made her a huge target
for the South African security police,

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who hadn’t expected that.

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They were quite surprised initially.

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And then the head of the security
police,

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General Van den Bergh, said,
"We will destroy this woman."

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They understood that
they had to destroy Winnie

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if they wanted to destroy the struggle.

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And of course,
as soon as they focused on Winnie,

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entered the inevitable barrage
of informers and spies.

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She was betrayed time and again
by people that she trusted,

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who inserted themselves
into her life.

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She very often ended up being arrested
and shocked that people would do that.

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These were trained people and were paid
to share whatever they got to know.

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When I was taken, the house

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was swarming with
the security branch, all white.

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I remember Zeni clinging on my skirt,

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and with little Zindzi behind,
pulling me and saying,

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"Mommy, Mommy, don’t go."

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You were held in solitary confinement
for months and months.

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It was meant to kill you emotionally
and to kill you to such an extent

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that there were only two options.

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You either decided

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to fight to the last drop of your blood,

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or you succumbed to the enemy
and decided to work with them.

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I love that picture--
Zeni and I with Mummy,

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wearing her ANC douk.

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It wasn’t an ANC douk,
but it had the colors.

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She used to love wearing that.

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It’s the black and green.

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You know, part of our flag.

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Black for the people,
green for the land.

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That was the gate at our home--
Vilekazi Street.

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With my mother, you’re not supposed to
say, "Don’t," because then she will do.

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If you’re going to say, "We’re going to
ensure that we lock this man up,

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that people forget him,
they forget even what he looks like,

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they forget what he sounds like,
they forget that he even exists,"

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that makes her commit
to ensuring the opposite.

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She’s an activist. She’s a fighter.

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She’s not the type of person
who can be voiceless.

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By the mid-’70s,
most of the African countries

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up north, central Africa,
were liberated,

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and down south,
there were still countries

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that were still under colonial rule,
but that was changing.

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And when the students
took to the streets,

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protesting against Afrikaans being used
as the medium of instruction,

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the whole country was engulfed
into this wave of violence.

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We don’t even regard them

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as Soweto riots as such,
but a national disaster.

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It is the beginning
of what we have always warned

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the nationalist,
racist government about.

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The system blamed Winnie
for inciting those uprisings,

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and she was taken away
to a rural province

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a hundred kilometers away
from Johannesburg.

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When they came to take my mum,
we thought it was the usual raid.

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They had taken her
to Protea police station.

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She is being interrogated
and completely unaware

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that she’s being packed up
and sent to Brandfort.

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Well, I had gotten
so used to being arrested

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that I had two little suitcases

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where I packed the bare necessities--
toothbrush, toothpaste.

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I was so used to that that I...

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I honestly did not anticipate
the punishment.

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What is your lifestyle like
here in Brandfort?

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I am really here in, um, prison.

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It’s really being in prison
at your own expense,

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being in exile in this kind of area.

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Brandfort is really a living grave.

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That’s in Brandfort.

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That was second or third day there.

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We didn’t know where we were.
We’d never even heard of the place.

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I think it was deliberately done

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like, to take her
from that relative comfort

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of what she was more familiar with,
like, at the house in Soweto,

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to this harsh new reality
where she knew absolutely nobody

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and understood the language
but didn’t speak it.

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So it was designed
to completely crush her

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and make her feel isolated
from everybody,

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to make her feel trapped.

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Even as we were driven to the house
and we saw people walking past,

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people were even afraid
to look at us, to smile at us.

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There was just this huge sense of fear.

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The whites told
the people who were working,

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"You must be very, very careful
about a Communist woman

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who has been placed in your community.

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Don’t talk to her."

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And even the schoolchildren,
they were told by their masters,

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"Don’t talk to a certain woman
called Winnie Mandela,

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who has been placed in your community.

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She is a Communist."

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This area is an area for the whites.

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You see now the Boers here.

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You know, it was for the whites only.

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Even on the station,
we could not even sit on the benches.

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"Whites only.
Yours is just right down there."

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The first thing I did, of course,

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was to recruit soldiers
into Umkhonto we Sizwe.

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I arranged their transport from there
to cross the borders into Lesotho.

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Thousands from the Orange Free State.

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The most important thing
was communication.

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I was getting my directives
from the senior leadership,

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O.R. and Chris Hani.

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Our strategy at the time was
you hit targets at the same time...

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in the whole country
so that they cannot measure

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the power of the other side.

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The ANC strategy
of attacks on important economic targets

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like this Sasol oil refinery

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has also stepped up this year
by a third on last year

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and by four times on two years ago.

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Would you be prepared
to take up a gun and kill someone

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in order to achieve what you would
regard as your freedom?

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Now I know I can.

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- You would?
- Now I know I can.

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In the past, I didn’t.

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But when I saw my children
mowed down in Soweto in 1976,

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then I realized that
in order to defend that,

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I would do exactly the same.

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Up there, that mountain
whereby the special branch

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would stand over there
using their telescopes

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to see everything that is happening
in Winnie’s house.

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There’s thinking people,
and people determined to survive,

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and there’s fighters.

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We just always, always managed
to beat the system.

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We had a coded way of speaking.

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We would express ourselves
in such a manner

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that the enemy wouldn’t be able
to detect what we're talking about.

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I know, and the people
of this country know,

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that Mandela will lead
this country to freedom.

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It’s very hard now to imagine someone
in a small place like Brandfort,

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isolated in this dry, dusty township,

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but who came out
with such strength and such charisma,

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and was the only person
who would stand up in front of the media

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and the international media...

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and speak without inhibition.

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It is the usual...

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the usual cosmetic South African
racist government story.

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Act illegally, promote the aims
of the ANC, quote her husband.

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If your husband is released,

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would he be prepared to go into exile
into Zambia or elsewhere?

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Not at all.

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There she would stand up
and do it without any sign of fear,

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any concern for the law,

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complete contempt
for power and authority,

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and it was an amazing show
of strength and courage and fortitude.

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We are prepared to respond likewise
to the government that has declared war.

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I was political reporter
of the Rand Daily Mail,

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and I was assigned to cover
Kennedy’s trip.

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So I went down to Brandfort.

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And it was completely remarkable.

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Thank you so much
for letting me come by here.

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But visitors managed to find her,

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whether she was banned
or in internal exile,

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as the world began to respect her

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as a dominant political force
in South Africa.

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In the same way people were supposed to
forget about my father in prison,

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they were supposed to
forget about her in Brandfort,

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and her spirit was supposed
to be broken and so on,

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and literally she was supposed to be
written out of history.

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It was a bold statement
from the Kennedys

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to acknowledge her role

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and recognize that if they wanted to
discuss the future of South Africa,

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that she’s a key player.

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She’s the constant.
She was always there.

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She was there before Tata
and them went to prison.

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She was there
when her people were exiled.

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Some people come in and out of history,
but Mummy’s a constant.

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Mr. Mandela’s release--
is there any possibility

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that could happen anytime soon?

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The moment he declares that he, uh,

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would not be involved
in the planning of violence,

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he can be set free.

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It is the ANC
which is jailing him at present.

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My father says, "I am a member
of the African National Congress."

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My father says,

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"I cannot and will not
give any an undertaking

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at a time when I and you,
the people, are not free.

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Your freedom and mine
cannot be separated.

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She was banned at the time.
But she was there,

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at the stadium
dressed as a domestic worker,

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and she was there in the audience,
and nobody had a clue who she was.

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Amandla! One South Africa!

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The declaration of a state of emergency

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was an admission of defeat.

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The government
had been battling the struggle

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and had got nowhere with it--
not through political means,

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not through terrorizing the population,

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not through infiltrating the ANC.

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And it was a declaration of war,

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which meant that the ANC
had no choice but to do the same.

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The explosions
caused extensive damage.

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Inside, they ripped out
the walls and floors.

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00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,280
Outside, windows were shattered
in nearby buildings.

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00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:19,640
21 people died
during the riot last week.

246
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,640
The fighting with police started
after about 500 people had gathered

247
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,840
to protest against eviction
from their homes.

248
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,320
State President PW Botha declared

249
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,240
a state of emergency in South Africa.

250
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,680
"The township riots,"
he said, "must stop."

251
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,520
This state of affairs
can no longer be tolerated.

252
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,600
So for the army and police, a whole
new arsenal of tough security laws.

253
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,160
The police, in their heavily armored
Casper vehicles,

254
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,560
went back into the townships
this morning.

255
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,960
The death toll has been rising
almost every hour.

256
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,720
Emergency legislation that allows them
to arrest anyone without a warrant,

257
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:57,960
imprison them without access
to a lawyer,

258
00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,000
impose curfews,
and seal off townships at will.

259
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,720
...was now virtual warfare.

260
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,200
Local people say police were
responsible for most of the killings.

261
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,560
Well, I’ve just seen 15 young people

262
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,240
with gunshot wounds
all over their bodies.

263
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,200
When the police saw groups
of young people

264
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,200
moving around the townships,
they simply shot them.

265
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,520
Unprovoked. Just shot them.

266
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,840
It’s just the tip of the iceberg.

267
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:46,960
It’s really...
an ominous sign of the times ahead.

268
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,440
It is the beginning
of what we have always feared.

269
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,920
When she came back
from Brandfort in the mid-’80s,

270
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,640
which is when I met her
for the first time,

271
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,400
we were on the precipice
of either descending

272
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:08,080
into complete, total anarchy
or trying to rescue the situation.

273
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,120
The 1985 state of emergency

274
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:16,120
and the 1986 one
which followed shortly thereafter

275
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:24,040
saw more than 10,000 to 15,000
mainly children, really, being detained.

276
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:29,840
What the regime wanted to do was--
effectively to intimidate

277
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,960
the whole country into submission

278
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,800
and basically clean out
the activist layer that was there

279
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,840
but also send a message

280
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,800
that they’re not going to tolerate
any dissent.

281
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,880
Apartheid is a criminal act!

282
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,160
The white man has the audacity--

283
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,520
He is three and a half million.
We are 30 million!

284
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,000
The Botha regime can go to hell!

285
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,960
Power to the people!

286
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,880
She was the only person
who could wake up

287
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,400
and wear ANC colors,
go to a meeting, and shout,

288
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,680
"Long live ANC," and then go home.

289
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,800
If any one of us had dared
to do something like that,

290
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,480
then you would know that’s
the day you must leave the country.

291
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,960
And that was a very important position--

292
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,320
to have somebody
in the country who can

293
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,200
defiantly be a member of the ANC,
openly be a member of the ANC.

294
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,760
And quite frankly, the system
didn’t know what to do with her,

295
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,360
because she--
it was just a state of defiance.

296
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:30,040
The resistance movement
had actually penetrated

297
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,800
to levels where
even if you took another 10,000,

298
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,040
there was just going to be another
layer.

299
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,000
Those who tell us
the moral thing to do is to embargo

300
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,640
the South African economy
and write off South Africa

301
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,400
should tell us exactly what they believe
will rise in its place.

302
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,800
Strategically, this is one of the most
vital regions of the world.

303
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,840
Around the Cape of Good Hope
passes the oil of the Persian Gulf.

304
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,320
Southern Africa and South Africa
are repository of many

305
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,920
of the vital minerals for which the West
has no other secure source of supply.

306
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,480
But the South African government
is under no obligation

307
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,120
to negotiate the future of the country
with any organization

308
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,000
that proclaims a goal
of creating a communist state

309
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,080
and uses terrorist tactics
and violence to achieve it.

310
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,040
The head of the ANC
called a news conference

311
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:27,800
at the palace of Westminster.

312
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,440
Angry the government won’t see him
unless he renounces violence,

313
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,240
he insists the violence comes
equally from President Botha.

314
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,200
It’s a bit heartless

315
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,400
to keep saying the ANC
must abandon its violence,

316
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,760
because that is saying
that the regime is not violent.

317
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:51,240
Even at a time when daily
on the television screens,

318
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,160
we are seeing the regime
shooting down children.

319
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,440
She was considered
one of the most senior commanders

320
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,400
of Umkhonto we Sizwe.

321
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,800
She and Chris Hani
worked closely together,

322
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,120
And that relationship grew
over the period of the ’80s.

323
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,280
So she was basically the highest
authority inside the country.

324
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,320
Apartheid was so vicious.
They were killing our people.

325
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,120
It was safer for
all the operatives underground

326
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,720
to come into the country, hit a target,
and go back to Lusaka,

327
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,200
because at the time,
the enemy was shooting to kill.

328
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:54,080
I used to receive
the ammunition from outside.

329
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,200
It would be buried,

330
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,280
and Lusaka would then send a map

331
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:01,680
of exactly where the weapons were,

332
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:09,600
and I had to see to it that
we went to dig up at dead of night

333
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,280
the stuff that had been buried there.

334
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,760
I was with the security branch

335
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,000
and arrested many terrorists
from Umkhonto we Sizwe,

336
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,200
the armed wing of the ANC,

337
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,640
and had them sentenced

338
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,200
to 80 years’ imprisonment,

339
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,400
and some of them hanged.

340
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:46,440
All my black agents
had to infiltrate the ANC, trade unions,

341
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,920
and of course,
the South African Communist Party.

342
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,160
And I also had a surveillance team,

343
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,160
with cameras, tape recorders,
and so forth.

344
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,000
When it comes to Winnie Mandela,

345
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,200
she’s always been on the radar.

346
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,880
We were aware of her activities,

347
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,400
listening to
her telephone conversations,

348
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,880
and were following her around.

349
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,440
And had people all around her.

350
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,000
She was closely monitored
by the security branch.

351
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:36,240
We were soon in a position to persist
in keeping the country under control,

352
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:41,200
but then other things came into play.

353
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,320
Recently Mandela was
moved from Pollsmoor Prison in Cape Town

354
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,000
to a hospital for treatment of TB.

355
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,160
The world got a fleeting glimpse
of the man it hadn’t seen for years.

356
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,040
The hospital visit fueled speculation
about his release.

357
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:59,560
The Mandela demonstrators
assembled in their thousands

358
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,960
in a north London park before setting
off on a march through the capital.

359
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:08,000
South Africa needs Nelson Mandela!

360
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,280
The world needs Nelson Mandela!

361
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,080
Towards the end of 1988,

362
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,760
Nelson Mandela was moved to hospital.

363
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,960
And Winnie goes down
to Cape Town to meet him

364
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,880
and, as fate would have it,
is on the same flight

365
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,920
as the Minister of Justice,
Kobie Coetzee, who was a hard-liner.

366
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,400
Mummy approached
Kobie Coetzee at an airport.

367
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,960
She was leaving to see my father,
and she confronted him openly and said,

368
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,080
"I want to know from you, when are you
going to release my husband?"

369
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,800
I went to sit next to him,

370
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:53,640
and Kobie Coetzee said,
"What will it take to shut you up

371
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,440
so that we can release your husband?

372
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,680
Who should we talk to?"

373
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,800
I said,
"Who are you talking to now?"

374
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,800
After the initial shock

375
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,480
and that type of, like,
in-your-face confrontation,

376
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,520
they began to have a conversation,

377
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,920
and that conversation
eventually led to an exchange

378
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,640
between this apartheid
minister of justice,

379
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,680
where there was no justice,
and my father as a prisoner.

380
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,040
It started with this woman,

381
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,920
whose role is so often overlooked
and disregarded.

382
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,880
Is he going to come out?"

383
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,800
No we don’t know.
I am visiting him again tomorrow.

384
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,600
She planted the seed,
and the rest is history.

385
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:54,880
And it’s then that the discussions
started taking place

386
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,800
between Nelson Mandela
through Dr. Neil Barnard,

387
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,080
from National Intelligence Service,

388
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:08,200
and the ball started rolling
towards a political solution.

389
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,600
The answer to,
"Why was Nelson Mandela

390
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,920
the God-given... individual

391
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,920
with whom we could start that?"

392
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:27,280
Was, 27 years in prison
made him a worldwide icon.

393
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,520
On TV] In July 1988,
over 200 million people

394
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,760
tuned in to a pop extravaganza

395
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,040
held as a tribute to Nelson Mandela
on his 70th birthday.

396
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,120
The ANC leaders in exile

397
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,320
didn’t focus their attention
on Mandela for a long time.

398
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:46,320
But now, positioning themselves
internationally for change,

399
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,560
they understood that Mandela,

400
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:54,480
thanks to all Winnie’s ceaseless efforts
for more than two decades,

401
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,120
was perhaps their ticket.

402
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:08,040
We had the pinnacle
of power under our control,

403
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,360
and quite clearly,
he was more than interested in

404
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,720
starting talks to try to--
also from his side to find out,

405
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,160
can we find some kind
of understanding?

406
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,720
It was quite clear
that at a certain point,

407
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,280
the ANC was going to take over
the government of the country.

408
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:37,360
So therefore, it was important
to work on him on his own,

409
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,480
without the leadership
in Pollsmoor Prison.

410
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,000
I think it’s
a wonderful idea of Kobie Coetzee--

411
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,680
Let us prepare the man
in normal circumstances,

412
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,480
in a house where he can,

413
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,000
at least for some time,
lead a normal life.

414
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,360
Although it is on the area

415
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,640
being controlled by
Correctional Services, called a prison,

416
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,920
it's a normal house.

417
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,240
Victor Verster was very strange.

418
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,080
This false sense of reality
that they were trying to give him.

419
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,440
Yes, we, uh...
we bugged the house in which he lived.

420
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,320
It’s no secret.

421
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,520
And we were discussing with Mandela,
and I myself many times,

422
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,240
"Sir...

423
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,800
we have a problem with Winnie.

424
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,240
She’s your wife."

425
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,080
My father was actually quite,
um, excited,

426
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,040
because he had been told--

427
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,000
he was offered that his family
can now move in with him.

428
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,720
And then my mother had to come
with this blow, to say,

429
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,680
"You will not.
We will not become glorified prisoners.

430
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,120
I will not allow you to do that
and compromise yourself."

431
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,440
...how the visit was and whether
it’s clarified things for you?

432
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,120
Yes, of course.
It has clarified things a great deal.

433
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,440
She was very much in his life

434
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:09,120
as that wake-up factor--

435
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,360
you know, wake-up factor--

436
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,120
and always the person
who had the ground intelligence.

437
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,520
He would have loved to go with us today,

438
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,800
and he would love
to be released any day,

439
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,680
and he wants to come home,
like all the leaders.

440
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,760
His release is not in his hands.

441
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,520
Madiba wasn’t aware of it at first.

442
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,880
Isolating him
from the rest of the prisoners

443
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:39,040
was in fact to work on him

444
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:40,840
in such a manner...

445
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,240
that he would come out of prison

446
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,920
actually preaching
as much peace as possible,

447
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,040
to protect-- to protect them,
more than anything else.

448
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,360
The townships were war zones.

449
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,400
There were tanks
and armed personnel carriers in Soweto.

450
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,560
Who are you? What are you doing?

451
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:22,320
The youth were up in arms.

452
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,199
There was enormous anger

453
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,360
from the side of the youth
towards the elders,

454
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,679
whom they saw as
not fighting hard enough.

455
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:36,159
And Winnie understood
more than anybody else in the ANC

456
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,800
that the younger generation
were the hope for the future.

457
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,760
Mandela FC has been demonized.

458
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,239
At the time,
there was a war between comrades

459
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,159
and carjackers,
who were used by the system--

460
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,400
you know that whole
black-on-black violence.

461
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,000
They were using them against each other,

462
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,200
so there’s a lot of brutality
and fighting there.

463
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,480
For the friends
and relatives of Victoria Nxenge...

464
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,120
Secondly, Victoria Nxenge
had been assassinated in Durban.

465
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,280
The civil rights lawyer
was gunned down in her own driveway

466
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,080
after a day spent preparing
the defense of two fellow

467
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,480
United Democratic Front members
facing high treason charges.

468
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,600
So at the same time
that Mummy’s thinking,

469
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,800
"We need to remove these children
off the streets,"

470
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,200
these children are thinking,
"We need to protect our leader,"

471
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,240
because leaders were vulnerable
and were killed.

472
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:41,120
I met Winnie when I was harassed
by the security branch forces.

473
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,880
I stayed in her house
for the hiding place.

474
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:50,200
She taught me about
the politics of the ANC--

475
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:55,280
what is the ANC and all--
and what it’s all about in the ANC--

476
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,360
and she taught me about the army things.

477
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,520
About the armed struggle,
what is the armed struggle,

478
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,200
and what a guerilla army is.

479
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,320
Because that time the slogan was,
"Disarm the enemy and arm the people."

480
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,520
I joined
the Mandela Football Club there.

481
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,000
At that time, I thought that
it was just a football club.

482
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,520
But when times go on,
I saw that these guys are...

483
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,840
are cadres of Umkhonto we Sizwe.

484
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,600
There were about eight guys

485
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,800
guarding the house
and the family of Winnie.

486
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,280
There were track suits that we wear
of Mandela FC.

487
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,640
But when time goes on, we saw that

488
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:51,720
people now are crying
about Mandela Football Club.

489
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,480
We found that people
were using our track suits

490
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,720
to rape and kill sometimes.

491
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,560
They kill people and say,
"Yes, Winnie’s boys."

492
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,320
They thought it’s us.

493
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,240
So we stopped using our uniforms.

494
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,800
Oh, you couldn’t communicate
with them at all.

495
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,880
They said they were
waiting for Protea because

496
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,200
the boys were wearing illegal t-shirts
or some kind of rubbish like that.

497
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,240
We were not allowed
by Mama to interrogate someone.

498
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:28,520
But us, in our corners, we were doing it

499
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,320
to get the information,
who’s working for the security branch...

500
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,080
for the enemy side.

501
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,040
It was 1989.

502
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,520
I was still with
the Intelligence Section.

503
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,240
And President PW Botha said,

504
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,600
"We must come up with
a psychological warfare strategy

505
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,120
against the enemy."

506
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,240
Everything was coordinated
between the defense force,

507
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,640
national intelligence,
and foreign affairs.

508
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:12,760
It was called
Covert Strategic Communication.

509
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,320
STRATCOM.

510
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,560
We are being agitated against worldwide

511
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,120
and threatened in the name of freedom
and liberation.

512
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,520
Pressure is being exerted on us
as the arch-oppressors of our time.

513
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,560
Many of the methods involved are suspect

514
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:40,800
because of either the slyness
or the dishonesty involved.

515
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,280
I had different projects
approved by him.

516
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,360
One was Operation Romulus.

517
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,640
Now, Romulus was, uh,

518
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:55,480
counter-revolutionary.

519
00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:01,800
So Winnie Mandela
fell amongst... those people.

520
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:10,080
I already had about 40 journalists
working directly or indirectly for me.

521
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,360
So through them,
I could have specific reports

522
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,520
placed in newspapers,
and it would be front-page.

523
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,840
Four members
of the football club were arrested

524
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,600
in a raid on Winnie Mandela’s house
on Sunday.

525
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,000
Police gathered all their possessions
in a detailed search for evidence.

526
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,400
Stompie Moeketsi was kidnapped
by the so-called Football Squad.

527
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,240
Stompie, suspected
of being a police informer,

528
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:33,600
was later murdered.

529
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,480
The charges
will add to growing controversy

530
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,400
about the Football Club bodyguards.

531
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,120
Throughout the eight-hour operation,

532
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,760
Winnie Mandela had cooperated fully
with the police,

533
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,320
though she insisted that the boys
had nothing to do

534
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,240
with the murder of 14-year-old
Stompie Moeketsi on Sunday.

535
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,760
The kind of reporting we have seen,

536
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:57,160
the deliberate and mischievous lies
that keep being perpetrated by the media

537
00:39:57,240 --> 00:39:59,760
is beyond anything we have seen.

538
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,200
A political funeral with a difference.

539
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,040
Just this once, the South African
government allowed full news coverage,

540
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,320
normally banned under the emergency,
and kept police out of sight,

541
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,560
all because the murder
of 14-year-old Stompie Moeketsi

542
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,480
is blamed not on the state

543
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,840
but on the bodyguards
of Winnie Mandela.

544
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,840
Police imposed
no restrictions at this funeral,

545
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,200
raising accusations they’re trying
to exploit Stompie’s killing

546
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,280
and deepen divisions among blacks.

547
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,520
Plainclothed police
with cameras watched from a distance,

548
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,440
but authorities made no move
to interfere.

549
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,760
His murder has outraged
many South Africans,

550
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,080
sparking divisions within
the anti-Apartheid movement.

551
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,240
Many black activists are refusing
to back Mrs. Mandela

552
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,440
and have severed all ties with her.

553
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,360
The Mass Democratic Movement
at this point

554
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:54,800
hereby wishes to distance itself
from Mrs. Mandela and her actions.

555
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,200
Throughout the town,
graffiti were scrawled on billboards,

556
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,920
charging Winnie Mandela
with involvement in Stompie’s murder.

557
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,240
There’s no rift whatsoever
between the African National Congress

558
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,360
and this family and never will be.

559
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:18,280
Perhaps the idea is to so destabilize

560
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,040
the political situation
in black communities

561
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,640
that the government simply sits back

562
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:27,560
and look at us fighting
amongst each other,

563
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:34,920
discrediting each other
dividing each other, and, uh,

564
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,720
and it would suit the government
to release Comrade Mandela

565
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,160
in that political atmosphere.

566
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,120
Many people to this day believe
that we tried to divide and rule.

567
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,840
The whole notion
is not historically correct.

568
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,360
She had all the capacity
to be a Jackie Kennedy.

569
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,600
And, you know, even from
the intelligence service side,

570
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:02,080
we discussed and hoped
and dreamed, even...

571
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,800
that she must play a responsible role

572
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:09,920
at the side of Nelson Mandela.

573
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,960
He will become president,
she will be first lady,

574
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,600
the mother of the nation, so to speak,

575
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,960
and we will all be

576
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,280
working together in this new--
this new country.

577
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,000
Sadly, that was not to be.

578
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:33,400
I’m now in a position
to announce that Mr. Nelson Mandela

579
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,720
will be released
at the Victor Verster prison

580
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,320
on Sunday the 11th of February,
at about 3:00 p.m.

581
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,600
Perhaps this is the moment...

582
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,480
to thank the organizations...

583
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,760
individuals, groups, governments,

584
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:58,160
and all those
who have campaigned for this day.

585
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,440
There is a clear sign of movement.

586
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,600
This is the hour
the world has been waiting for.

587
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,920
There’s Mr. Mandela,
Mr. Nelson Mandela,

588
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:41,560
a free man, taking his first steps
into a new South Africa.

589
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:48,160
Mrs. Winnie Mandela next to him
waving to the crowds.

590
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:56,800
Hand in hand...

591
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,080
they leave the Victor Verster prison.

592
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,040
Officials, marshals
of the National Reception Committee

593
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,920
trying to get the people--

594
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,280
and a salute from Mr. Nelson Mandela.

595
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,360
His wife, Winnie, greeting the people

596
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,920
outside the fences
of the Victor Verster prison.

597
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:21,960
That is the man
who the world has been waiting to see.

598
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,440
People running alongside the car.

599
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,560
In many ways,

600
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,280
when he was in prison,

601
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,760
Mandela was looking at the world
through Winnie’s eyes,

602
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,800
because she brought back
information to him.

603
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,320
He in turn trusted her with information

604
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,840
he really didn’t trust
anybody else with.

605
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:49,320
And so that moment of him
seeing this new world

606
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:55,160
into which he’s released through
Winnie’s eyes is so poignant.

607
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:04,720
Prior to his release,

608
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,600
I would say about ten days
before his release,

609
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,600
I had one of my last discussions
with him,

610
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,640
and I told him,
"Sir, may I give you some advice?

611
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:20,800
The first speech after your release,
the world will be looking.

612
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,680
Please don’t make
one of those long, struggle,

613
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,160
slogan, ideological speeches.

614
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:32,640
Do not fall back to apartheid
and whatever happened wrong,

615
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:36,160
and "you will carry on with
the struggle" and so forth and so on.

616
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:39,560
Be brief, say, 'Here we are.

617
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,640
We’re carrying on to make peace.
Thank you for everybody.

618
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:45,280
You will understand that I’m tired now,'
and things like that.

619
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,400
Just-- you will have
your time for speeches."

620
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,080
That was not to be.

621
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,480
- Amandla!
- Ewutu!

622
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,040
- Amandla!
- Ewetu!

623
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,440
- I-Afrika!
- Mayibuye!

624
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,720
- Mayibuye!
- I-Afrika!

625
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,680
The point when he’s on the balcony

626
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,960
making his first speech,
as a free man,

627
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:17,440
but reading what he had written
with Winnie’s glasses,

628
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,720
because he had misplaced his own
is so symbolic

629
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:27,040
of Winnie’s role in Mandela’s life
for so long.

630
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:33,200
The factors which necessitated
the armed struggle

631
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,040
still exist today!

632
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,360
- We have no option...
- I was with my family...

633
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,680
- ...but to continue.
- ...watching it.

634
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,440
At that moment,
I had already started calling

635
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,880
some of our sources, asking them,
"What the hell is going on?"

636
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,360
Because I was sitting there and--
what is going on?

637
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:59,480
What we’ve been working on
can develop into a catastrophe.

638
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,160
What of course was really sad

639
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:11,680
is that Mandela did not specifically
talk about Winnie’s role

640
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,960
in the time that he was in prison.

641
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:18,440
For many people, it was an oversight.

642
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,200
He should have given Winnie
the recognition that she deserved,

643
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,120
at least alluded to the fact
that he would not have been there

644
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:31,160
had it not been for her
and her ceaseless work

645
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:34,280
and organizing and her suffering

646
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,680
and everything that she sacrificed
in order to get him there.

647
00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:46,080
I was horrified when I realized
that I had lost my identity.

648
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,800
And suddenly I was nobody.

649
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,760
Mandela’s wife.

650
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,600
I’m absolutely excited to be out.

651
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:03,120
We are loyal and disciplined members
of the organization.

652
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,360
It is my intention

653
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:10,120
to go to Lusaka at the earliest
possible convenience.

654
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,760
They will tell me
what role I should play.

655
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,880
When people on the ground
know who their leaders are,

656
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,920
there’s nothing
that you can do successfully

657
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,760
to alter that relationship,

658
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,040
because that is genuine,
and that is real,

659
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,880
and that is historically--
historically strong.

660
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,000
I think they were too formidable.

661
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:43,760
I think together as a couple,

662
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,120
they were just too powerful
as a couple.

663
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,800
You've got these people who--
who are so influential

664
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,680
within their communities and beyond,

665
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,440
they have impacted,
and they’re together,

666
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,520
and they have this ability to see things
from two different perspectives

667
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,200
but wanting the same thing,
for the same objective.

668
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:05,160
I just think it was too much power
to have as a couple,

669
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:09,200
and I think there were various people
who felt threatened by this.

670
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,920
And for anybody who had an agenda,

671
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,040
they had to get rid of this.

672
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,360
They had to get rid
of this solid foundation first

673
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,360
and then proceed.

674
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:28,800
Nelson Mandela got a rousing welcome
from the city of New York today,

675
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,840
as he began a ten-day tour
across the United States.

676
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:36,000
The former longtime political prisoner
will address Congress

677
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,680
and the United Nations, and he’ll be
received at the White House.

678
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,040
I made a documentary film

679
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,560
through the South African
Broadcasting Corporation.

680
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,760
Of course, I had all the friends there.

681
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,600
And we put all the material together,

682
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,400
and that I flogged into America,

683
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:58,800
and it was shown
on 40 different channels.

684
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:06,240
And that led to her being declared
an international terrorist.

685
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,040
And when she wanted
to visit America with him,

686
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:16,160
Americans said, "No, you can’t come,
because you’re still on our list.

687
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:21,280
So they had to delete her name
specially for her to come.

688
00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:25,680
It is true.

689
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,720
I am much angrier than him.

690
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,280
It is true I have personally found it
very, very difficult

691
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,840
to believe in the sincerity...

692
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,000
of the ruling class, the Afrikaner.

693
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:45,480
I do battle with myself
about believing their sincerity.

694
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:51,760
As far as I’m concerned,
we will watch that negotiation table.

695
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,880
If anything goes wrong there,

696
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,920
I will be the first
to go back to the bush,

697
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,400
take up arms, and fight
the South African government.

698
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,480
Mandela had gone
to an emergency meeting

699
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:22,600
of the African National Congress
to discuss black factional violence,

700
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,760
when the government
filed charges against his wife.

701
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,800
At the courthouse, a strong show
of support for the Mandelas.

702
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,800
The government has claimed
the charges against Winnie Mandela

703
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:35,720
are not politically motivated.

704
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,880
The case involves
14-year-old Stompie Sepei.

705
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,160
Today Winnie Mandela was formally
charged with kidnapping and assault

706
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:46,560
in the death of a teenager allegedly
murdered by her bodyguards.

707
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,560
The government arrested
Mrs. Mandela’s bodyguard,

708
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:52,440
convicted him of murder, and last month
sentenced him to death.

709
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,960
It’s taken authorities
nearly two years to charge her,

710
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,760
and many in the black community
suspect that the government

711
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,160
may be using their case
to harm the Mandelas

712
00:52:01,240 --> 00:52:03,520
and the African National Congress.

713
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,000
That was the intention of apartheid--

714
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,720
to break things down,
to break down family units,

715
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,000
to fragmentize anything
that was black unity.

716
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:17,440
That was the purpose.

717
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:22,120
So in many ways, they succeeded
in creating some kind of division.

718
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:28,160
So then they tried to pitch my parents
like the saint and the sinner.

719
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,320
And you’re thinking like,
what even gives you the right?

720
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,640
It was a period of ambivalence.

721
00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:39,640
The return of the exiles,

722
00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:42,160
which is what she was tasked to do
by the ANC.

723
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:45,160
This was now the beginning
of the negotiations

724
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:50,000
and the doubts as to whether
this was the real thing or not.

725
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,880
The ANC was making critical choices

726
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,360
about compromises
it was prepared to make

727
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,480
and the path
it was setting the country on.

728
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:02,040
And what was dominant
in the ANC was a kind of

729
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:06,480
centrist, middle-of-the road
preparedness

730
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,080
to concede a great deal
and to make the deals both with

731
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,120
Afrikaner nationalism
and with global capitalism.

732
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:22,880
I personally feel
that we over-negotiated in CODESA,

733
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:27,040
Because we found that capital--
capitalism

734
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,560
is a very difficult system,

735
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:34,520
because the owners of production...

736
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:39,800
the owners of resources,
are those who are in power.

737
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,920
There was a very important constituency

738
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:49,960
led by the likes of Chris Hani,
in which Winnie was a critical figure,

739
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:54,040
who were arguing against
too much compromise,

740
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,360
against that middle-of-the road path

741
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,200
and looking for a socialist
transformation.

742
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:04,240
The ANC leadership
were looking to manage her,

743
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:09,680
contain her as part of the attempt
to contain those left-wing forces.

744
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,920
The incident with
Stompie Sepei and Jerry Richardson

745
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:23,960
is symptomatic of what happened
with Winnie throughout her life.

746
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,440
With all the informers
that had been planted who changed

747
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:33,960
their testimony by 180 degrees in court,
what exactly was the truth?

748
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,280
They had testified
that she hadn’t been there.

749
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,840
Then they changed their minds
and said that she had been there.

750
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:43,200
How could anybody have really
come to a reliable verdict

751
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,800
with all that murkiness
around that case?

752
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,720
For anti-apartheid groups
in South Africa,

753
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,720
scenes like these
are a cause for despair.

754
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,640
In areas of the Natal Province,
black-on-black violence

755
00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:01,480
has reached proportions
of near civil war

756
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,440
as political factions wage
running battles for control

757
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,800
of the local black townships.

758
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,880
It was a critical period
in the interim between 1990 and ’94,

759
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:15,040
where the balance of power
was being played out.

760
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,000
The apartheid government
in its negotiations

761
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,200
was trying to elevate the status

762
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,680
of the Inkhata Freedom Party
as an alternative,

763
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,160
as a counter to the ANC.

764
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:30,160
The biggest obstacle of all now
to the liberation of South Africa

765
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:32,800
and to the sorting out of things
in South Africa is caused

766
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:34,720
by this black-on-black violence,

767
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,680
because even if the whites
were prepared to negotiate tomorrow,

768
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:40,360
I mean, we blacks are still busy
butchering each other.

769
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,880
There was a high and dangerous
level of black-on-black violence

770
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,680
that threatened to destabilize
the whole transition process.

771
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,880
It was not really
black-on-black violence

772
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:02,120
but government-instigated or supported
or encouraged attempts

773
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:06,560
to weaken and undermine the ANC
as its chief negotiating partner.

774
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,680
I actually said to Madiba at one point,

775
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:16,520
"We know these people.

776
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:20,360
We fought against them
not only politically,

777
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,360
not on platforms,
we fought them physically.

778
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,120
We know each other.

779
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:30,920
We know each other so well
that we cannot trust

780
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:36,600
the apartheid state forming
any government of unity with you."

781
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,000
It is quite clear

782
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,360
that the government has either
lost control over the police,

783
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,240
or the police are doing
what the government wants them to do.

784
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,280
I take very strong exception

785
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:53,520
to the alleged statement
attributed to Mr. Mandela

786
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:57,280
to the effect that I am seeking
to promote my cause

787
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,000
over the corpses of his supporters.

788
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,600
Nelson Mandela is under siege,

789
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:06,600
his search for a peaceful end
to apartheid in jeopardy,

790
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,720
and now his wife’s prosecution

791
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,280
threatening to further damage
the Mandela name.

792
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:14,200
I have never believed...

793
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:19,880
that she was guilty
of assaulting anyone.

794
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:22,920
It was not some façade.

795
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:28,600
I think he believed deep down
in his whole being,

796
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:33,360
as we all did, that this was
part of a wider conspiracy

797
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,680
aimed at her but also aimed at him.

798
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:39,800
Nelson Mandela, borne by
the dignity of his moral crusade

799
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:44,160
but tainted now by the woman he loves
and cannot bring himself to criticize.

800
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,960
But, as ever,
unbowed, she’ll now appeal,

801
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,920
and as ever,
with the full support of her husband.

802
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,960
Strategic communications is the planned,

803
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:03,440
coordinated, presentation of a message

804
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,440
by means of various
communication instruments

805
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:14,360
to change attitudes, values,
and to reach national objectives.

806
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,320
When it comes to Winnie Mandela,

807
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:22,640
we were more concentrating
on her personal life,

808
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,760
which was in tatters,

809
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,280
and so easily...

810
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,960
to see and to hear and to expose.

811
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:48,880
So many people would read it,
and it’s not going to cost us a cent.

812
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,680
That was the purpose, my purpose.

813
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:15,600
I was given that letter by Nelson...

814
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,520
who was given it

815
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,280
by the editor of the Sunday Times.

816
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:30,320
I had to go to Winnie and ask her
whether it was genuine or not.

817
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:34,600
She looked at it...

818
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:36,560
burst into tears...

819
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,320
and said she was betrayed.

820
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,760
Obviously, it was some witch hunt

821
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:52,280
which was meant to isolate her.

822
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:56,920
There was even then a--
a clear campaign

823
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:03,560
to delegitimize, as it were,
the so-called radical wing of the ANC.

824
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:08,920
Mandela was given the ultimatum

825
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:14,480
to divorce Winnie, to, in fact,
get rid of Winnie or be president.

826
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,160
That was the ANC leadership
who decided on that.

827
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:28,440
In view of the tensions that have arisen
owing to differences between ourselves

828
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,960
in a number of issues
in recent months...

829
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,320
we have mutually agreed

830
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:40,680
that a separation would be best
for each one of us

831
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:47,960
You know, Mummy wouldn’t make it seem
like she suffered that much.

832
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:52,920
But that’s the thing,
Mummy’s just always had that capacity,

833
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,440
you know, to die inside, you know,

834
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,920
and, like, just be beaming
and glowing externally.

835
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:00,920
She’s just always been that person.

836
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:10,480
I was at home when Chris was killed.

837
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,720
Chris Hani
was shot four times in the driveway

838
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:16,200
of his own home in a quiet
Johannesburg suburb, Dawn Park.

839
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,360
I do not know how one puts

840
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,760
the degrees of hurt and...

841
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:29,000
a feeling of total helplessness,
a feeling of despair.

842
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:44,400
It was so clear that it was
a very complicated assassination.

843
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:48,600
You couldn’t attribute it
to the enemy completely.

844
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:53,000
85,000 South Africans
pay homage to a revolutionary.

845
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,600
ANC leader Chris Hani
received a statesman’s funeral.

846
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:58,160
When he was killed,

847
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,360
one of the hopes of the country
was gone.

848
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,160
Here was a man who had led

849
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:08,360
the military wing
of the African National Congress.

850
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,480
We literally worshipped Chris Hani.

851
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:17,720
We dreamt of a South Africa
where he would be president one day.

852
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:22,400
Those who have deliberately
created this climate

853
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,160
that legitimates political assassination

854
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:31,240
are as much responsible
for the death of Chris Hani

855
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,040
as the man who pulled the trigger.

856
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:36,560
We want an election date now!

857
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,880
After Chris Hani was assassinated,

858
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:43,200
the country was in flames.

859
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:57,760
Winnie’s appeal came up
barely three months later.

860
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,880
There would have been
enormous violence

861
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,240
if Winnie had been sent to prison.

862
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:07,800
I don’t think any court
would at that point

863
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:12,280
have thought it prudent
to deny her appeal.

864
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,280
One candidate
who could be a problem for the ANC,

865
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:20,920
particularly in attracting
moderate voters, is Winnie Mandela.

866
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,080
Her overwhelming popularity
in the townships has put her

867
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,080
number five on the ANC list,

868
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:30,040
and she’ll almost certainly
become a cabinet minister.

869
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:32,600
I never went away.
I’ve always been with my people.

870
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:34,880
That is why they have spoken.

871
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,320
My political aspirations
have never changed.

872
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:39,920
I’m where I belong--

873
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,880
the parliament of the people.

874
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,040
I’ve been put there
by the masses of this country.

875
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:49,720
I have never stood for a position

876
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:52,760
and said, "I’m available! I’m available!

877
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:55,600
Elect me as president
of the Women’s League."

878
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:57,120
No, I’ve never done that.

879
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:07,120
She had already made it quite clear
that she didn’t see eye to eye

880
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,360
with Mandela and the ANC
about much of the policies,

881
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:14,520
that she leaned towards
a more socialistic state,

882
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,960
that she wouldn’t have
bent over backwards

883
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,960
to accommodate the former rulers
and oppressors, etcetera.

884
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,960
So they needed to isolate her
to eliminate her

885
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:30,440
from the inner circle of the ANC.

886
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,760
It is the realization

887
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:41,200
of our hopes and dreams...

888
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,640
that we have cherished over decades.

889
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:53,200
It was all a question of the ANC

890
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:58,520
understanding Winnie’s power,
understanding how easily

891
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,200
she could mobilize ground root support.

892
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:09,720
There’s no question in my mind that,
had she been embraced by the ANC,

893
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,560
had they made her part
of the inner circle,

894
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:14,400
she would’ve been deputy president,

895
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:16,640
and she would have been president
after Mandela.

896
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,360
That’s then I felt triumphant.

897
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,440
After such a bitter struggle...

898
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:30,160
after losing so much blood,
after losing almost everything we had...

899
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,680
our children, our uncles, our aunts...

900
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:39,720
That moment is indescribable.

901
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,320
When he became president,
and Winnie was not even seated

902
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:59,480
with the VIP guests,
it was just heartbreaking

903
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:04,600
that Mandela would not allow her
to even be seen

904
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:06,680
as a very important person
on that occasion.

905
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:13,560
And one understands that his ego
had been injured by Winnie.

906
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,680
However,
he was always so fair to everybody.

907
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,400
One would expect
of somebody of that stature

908
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:22,640
to be able to overcome that.

909
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:28,200
If he could forgive other people for
such terrible transgressions against him

910
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:31,640
and against the country and his family,
he could have done that for Winnie.

911
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,000
I had achieved everything I fought for.

912
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:39,720
What more did I want?
I didn’t care for this.

913
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:44,440
It was just like water on a duck’s back.
It still is, to this day.

914
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:49,840
As long as he would be
president of the country

915
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:54,440
and lead the people to liberation,
that’s all that mattered to me.

916
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:01,840
Never... never...

917
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:03,960
and never again

918
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:09,680
shall it be that this beautiful land
will again experience

919
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,680
the oppression of one by another.

920
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,240
I realized that

921
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:19,320
there was this huge program,

922
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:23,520
that I became a project
to certain people.

923
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:28,480
I became a project to prepare Madiba
for this presidency.

924
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:32,200
There had to be
all kinds of hangers-on around him

925
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:37,760
who continued this program
of discrediting me.

926
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:46,480
Madiba was safer without me
because I would always see through

927
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:50,320
the political intricacies
of their plans.

928
01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:24,880
During 1994, I received a phone call

929
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:28,359
from the commissioner
of the South African police service

930
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:30,680
that I must come to his office

931
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:34,640
because the Minister of Safety
and Security want to see me.

932
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:38,920
He told us that he was a member
of the executive committee

933
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,800
of the ANC during those times,

934
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:46,680
and that we must start a--
re-start the investigation

935
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:51,399
into all the cases
against Winnie Mandela.

936
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:55,760
And we must start
from Stompie Sepei right through

937
01:08:55,840 --> 01:09:01,680
and try to get evidence
that Winnie can be charged for murder.

938
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:07,640
I think there was some
political motivation behind him

939
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:11,000
because the Minister
is the political head of the police,

940
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:15,680
and I thought that the ANC,
through Sidney Mufamadi,

941
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:19,640
were behind the request
to re-investigate Winnie Mandela.

942
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:24,240
So we started this whole investigation.

943
01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:27,439
We went to Jerry Richardson in prison.

944
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:31,720
He was serving a life sentence
for the killing of Stompie Sepei.

945
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,880
And there he told me Stompie found out

946
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:41,160
he was a registered informer
of the security branch in Soweto.

947
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:45,840
So he killed Stompie Sepei
to cover his own tracks,

948
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:51,240
and Winnie Mandela must never find out
that he was a registered informer.

949
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:57,680
The Minister gave us carte blanche
money-wise, logistic-wise,

950
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:01,800
and we can travel through the world
where we need to go.

951
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:07,760
And there was a South African citizen
closely involved with Winnie Mandela

952
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:10,760
in the custody of a British MP.

953
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:12,960
He lived in her house and so on.

954
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:15,440
Watching this,
what was in your heart?

955
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:18,080
Katiza Khebukulu
has since become famous.

956
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:22,520
He was the central character
in a book and a BBC documentary.

957
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,520
He was rescued by British baroness
Emma Nicholson,

958
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,280
who has since taken him under her wing.

959
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,240
She should go down for life.

960
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:36,280
They’re not going to forget.

961
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:41,000
That evidence is going to be theirs.

962
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:47,480
But you will find
that the book also contains

963
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:49,200
very significant material

964
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:52,280
on the events that surround
his testimony.

965
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:55,440
I mean, it was a very clear portrayal

966
01:10:55,520 --> 01:11:01,040
of demonizing somebody
who spent the rest of her life

967
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:03,960
trying to liberate South Africa.

968
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,120
And it was very clear that, uh,

969
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:12,040
its orientation
was to delegitimize her,

970
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:16,320
make her look like a criminal
and a hater.

971
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:29,960
I have watched in painful silence

972
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:33,120
my character being butchered
in the media.

973
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:39,560
I have witnessed my contribution
to this democracy

974
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:42,280
being vilified and ridiculed.

975
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:46,080
South Africa, I ask:

976
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:50,920
is it public interest
that my name is littered

977
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,000
all over the streets of this country?

978
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:59,720
That the media vandalize my dignity
without just cause?

979
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:08,960
Order, please.

980
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:14,600
We are here not in order
to put anyone in the dock.

981
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:20,040
Our objective is to find out the truth

982
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:25,560
in order to assist in the process
of healing our land...

983
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:31,400
to promote reconciliation,
and to ensure that the awful things

984
01:12:31,480 --> 01:12:34,880
we hear about will not happen again.

985
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:39,040
From the word go,
the charges started piling up.

986
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:42,200
The first day’s witnesses implicated
Madikizela Mandela

987
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:45,640
in four serious assaults
and six murders.

988
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:47,760
To me, the TRC was a trial.

989
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:50,840
It was not established to--

990
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:55,920
to find out anything other
than the fact that I was being re-tried,

991
01:12:56,000 --> 01:13:02,240
being humiliated to show
that I was not fit to be his wife.

992
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:07,240
The first day of the hearing
was a huge surprise because

993
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:12,400
I hadn’t anticipated such a wide
international interest in her story.

994
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:15,280
The allegations that
were coming out were serious.

995
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:19,960
They were of a criminal kind, and yet,
there was no criminal investigation

996
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:21,880
in relation to those issues.

997
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:27,640
They were there in a platform
that enjoyed international attention.

998
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:30,400
And there was no way her image

999
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:34,800
was not going to be marred
by that process.

1000
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:38,200
Katiza Cebukhulu
says he saw Madikizela Mandela

1001
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:41,400
stab Stompie
with a shiny object one night.

1002
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,720
It was something that was shining.

1003
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:48,520
After the hand was raised
for the first time, did you see what--

1004
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:54,280
She was stabbing.
She stabbed twice.

1005
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:58,040
It was obvious that
one was also dealing with witnesses

1006
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:03,520
whose credibility was questionable
but whose motives were clear.

1007
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:07,040
They wanted money, and in exchange,

1008
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:10,640
they were going to say anything
and everything against Winnie.

1009
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:14,560
I do not have any police friends.

1010
01:14:16,440 --> 01:14:20,480
I did know a lot of police,
but I was not friends with them.

1011
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:24,760
On Tuesday,
the so-called coach of the football club

1012
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,280
and the man who was convicted
of killing Stompie Sepei,

1013
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:29,680
Jerry Richardson, will testify.

1014
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,880
He has said that he killed Stompie Sepei
on the orders of Winnie.

1015
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:35,600
I slaughtered him.

1016
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,840
I slaughtered him like a goat.

1017
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:45,160
But Jerry Richardson’s credibility
as a witness was undermined this week

1018
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:47,880
when he confessed to being
a police informer.

1019
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:52,000
Richardson was in prison by that time.

1020
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:54,280
He may have been promised

1021
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:57,440
that they will help him somehow.

1022
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:01,000
They knew I didn’t kill Stompie.

1023
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,000
I was being tried just as a farce.

1024
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:09,400
I was the only one
in the African National Congress

1025
01:15:09,480 --> 01:15:14,720
who was taken to the TRC
by her own government.

1026
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:16,480
The only one.

1027
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:19,000
I thought they were criminalizing her

1028
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:22,480
so that they can
politically neutralize her.

1029
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:26,400
Is there an opinion
by a section of our country

1030
01:15:26,480 --> 01:15:29,560
about the nomination of yourself

1031
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,600
to the deputy presidency of the African
National Congress in December?

1032
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,240
Yes, that is true.

1033
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:41,400
As a matter of fact,
as far as I was concerned,

1034
01:15:41,480 --> 01:15:44,720
the subpoena could have been
served last year,

1035
01:15:44,800 --> 01:15:48,800
could have been served
many, many moons ago,

1036
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:53,200
and the unhealthy coincidence
in my mind...

1037
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:59,000
that this must happen...

1038
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:02,520
a few days
before the national conference...

1039
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:09,320
to me suggests
it is part and parcel of that agenda.

1040
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:12,400
The whole perception of reconciliation

1041
01:16:12,480 --> 01:16:16,160
was gotten completely wrong,
because it has been misinterpreted

1042
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:18,680
in terms of what it was supposed
to achieve.

1043
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:22,560
Then Winnie Mandela becomes demonized
because she remains

1044
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:26,960
the voice of the downtrodden
and the conscience of the people,

1045
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,040
that voice that says
we were not treated right,

1046
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:30,800
and we’re still not being treated right.

1047
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,440
That’s the reality.

1048
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:37,600
I speak to you as someone
who loves you very deeply...

1049
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:42,680
who loves your family
very, very, deeply.

1050
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:50,080
I would have said to you,
"Let us have a public meeting...

1051
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:56,800
and at that public meeting for you
to stand up and say,

1052
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:59,880
‘There are things that went wrong.

1053
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:03,000
There are things that went wrong...

1054
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:06,360
and I...

1055
01:17:06,440 --> 01:17:09,960
I don’t know why they went wrong.’

1056
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:15,600
And say, ‘I’m sorry.

1057
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:21,520
I’m sorry for my part...
in what went wrong.’"

1058
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:26,280
I was seething with rage.

1059
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:28,360
To this day...

1060
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:35,040
I ask God to forgive me...

1061
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:37,640
for not forgiving him.

1062
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:40,720
He was acting there for the public...

1063
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:44,600
acting there for STRATCOM...

1064
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:49,880
begging me to say I was sorry?

1065
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:51,600
I beg you.

1066
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:54,240
I beg you.

1067
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:56,520
- I wasn’t going to say sorry...
- I beg you.

1068
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:59,080
...as if I had been responsible
for apartheid.

1069
01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:01,480
I mean, how dare? Really!

1070
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:03,280
You are a great person...

1071
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:10,520
and you don’t know how your greatness
would be enhanced...

1072
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:14,960
if you were to say, "Sorry.

1073
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:21,160
Things went wrong. Forgive me."

1074
01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:22,840
I beg you.

1075
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,520
The one person

1076
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:33,440
who kept the fires burning
when everybody was petrified--

1077
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:39,680
and I didn’t blame them,
because of those

1078
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:43,440
dark forces of apartheid
were killing our people like flies.

1079
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:45,440
I didn’t blame them

1080
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:49,120
when sometimes
I would shoot that fist alone,

1081
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:51,840
and they were too petrified.

1082
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:56,280
You put me on trial before the TRC,

1083
01:18:56,360 --> 01:19:00,520
and a Desmond Tutu
sits there judging me.

1084
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:01,960
Judging me!

1085
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:38,000
For the first 20 years, it was accepted

1086
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:41,080
that compromises were made,
that deals were made,

1087
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:43,360
and that they had to be made,

1088
01:19:43,440 --> 01:19:47,000
and that worked for the better
of everyone because it gave us

1089
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:50,760
what’s loosely called
a peaceful transition.

1090
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:57,160
But now you are very clearly seeing
young people saying, "But hold on.

1091
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:00,800
The reason we still have
so much inequality,

1092
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:03,880
the reason we are so frustrated
in our attempts to study

1093
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:08,120
and advance and change our lives
and change our children’s lives

1094
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:12,200
is because of those compromises
you made in the 1990s.

1095
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:38,560
I think the way it is going
to end in South Africa is that

1096
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:42,200
people like Winnie Mandela
will be vindicated.

1097
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:47,960
There will come a time
where history will remember

1098
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:53,800
that some of the skepticism that
they had about the so-called miracle

1099
01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:58,800
of the solution that was found
in the ’90s was justified.

1100
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:01,960
I think already people
are beginning to wonder

1101
01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:09,880
whether we were not sold a dummy,
as it were, that the deal was one-sided,

1102
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:14,440
and that the racist regime
got away with murder, literally.

1103
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:30,880
To this day,

1104
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:33,120
when I sit in Parliament,

1105
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:38,840
every time I press that blue button,

1106
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:42,640
I’m constricted with pain.

1107
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:49,480
Did it take so much loss of life,
so much blood,

1108
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:51,800
in order for me to vote?

1109
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:54,480
It cost us so much.

1110
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:58,200
And it continues to cost us so much.

1111
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:06,720
We dreamt of a South Africa...

1112
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:11,240
that was totally free of racialism...

1113
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:17,120
a South Africa where everyone...

1114
01:22:18,480 --> 01:22:21,480
would be fed equally...

1115
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:24,880
where youth would be employed...

1116
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:30,280
where the scarce resources
would have been available

1117
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:34,840
for the dreams we instilled in them.

1118
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:48,960
The Freedom Charter says the wealth
of the country

1119
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:52,160
belongs to all who live in it.

1120
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:59,600
That is a South Africa
I would have loved to leave one day.