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BARACK OBAMA: I
directed our military

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to take targeted strikes.

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DONALD TRUMP: Tonight, I ordered
a targeted military strike.

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JOE BIDEN: We will respond
with force and precision

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at our time, at the
place we choose,

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at the moment of our choosing.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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ROGER STAHL: Well,
they finally did it.

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It's been more than 30
years, but Maverick is back.

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ROGER STAHL: It was
hard to miss the news.

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NEWS ANCHOR: Maverick is back.

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NEWS ANCHOR: Maverick
Mitchell is back.

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NEWS ANCHOR: He's back.

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Maverick is back.

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NEWS ANCHOR: Maverick is back.

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NEWS ANCHOR: He is back.

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NEWS ANCHOR: Maverick is back.

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Maverick is back, baby.

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NEWS ANCHOR: --is
back in action.

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He's back in the film.

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[CHEERS]

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I definitely feel
that love and feeling

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up here from you all.

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ROGER STAHL: The Pentagon
was feeling the love, too.

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Beneath all the noise was
a quiet little contract

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that allowed the US military
to weave in key talking points,

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oversee the script, and
require an official screening

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before its release.

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Of course, it wasn't
the first time.

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All right, talk to me, Goose.

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ROGER STAHL: You may not
remember the original film

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as an instrument for
engineering public opinion,

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but the Pentagon does.

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The office that supplied
all those aircraft carriers

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and F-14s said as much
in its own database.

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The film completed
rehabilitation

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of the military's image, which
had been savaged by the Vietnam

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War.

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I got you down.

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ROGER STAHL: You might
wonder how often they do this

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and how deep the influence goes.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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FILM NARRATOR: This is the
Army Air Force's first motion

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picture unit in Culver
City, California.

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ROGER STAHL:
Propaganda, I've been

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studying it the better part
of my adult life, especially

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the war variety.

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I've written the books,
taught the courses.

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I knew that the DOD had an
office for helping with movies.

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But we didn't even
basic things about it.

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How many films?

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Were there really
script changes?

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And what were they?

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It might as well have been
a broom closet locked up

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in some dusty corner
of the Pentagon.

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Then documents started to get
out, some real revelations.

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The paper trail led me to a
couple of British researchers

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who had been filing countless
Freedom of Information Act

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requests.

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I didn't quite know
what I was getting into.

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But they were delivering
thousands of pages, eye popping

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news, just about every day.

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Hi, guys, some new documents
arrived this morning.

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These are some of
the US Army script

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notes on a Man of Steel,
the Superman movie.

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ROGER STAHL: When
that door blew open,

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I got a glimpse of something way
bigger than I thought possible.

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But this journey was
just getting started.

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TRICIA JENKINS: The Pentagon is
powerful in the film and TV industry

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because they have
expensive toys.

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They have submarines.

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They have aircraft carriers.

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They have extras.

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They have pilots.

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They have helicopters.

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MATTHEW ALFORD: That is going to
give them rights, usually contracted

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in, to change the script.

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OLIVER STONE: You can call it censorship.

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You can call it propaganda.

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It's all of these things.

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TANNER MIRRLEES: But this is more
insidious than actually sort of state

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controlled and state
produced propaganda.

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Because it passes off
as just entertainment.

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Are you the
ranking officer here?

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TRICIA JENKINS: And that's when
propaganda is the most effective.

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You're a little bit more open
to incorporating those ideas,

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because your defenses are down.

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Hit it.

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SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: Some people
probably would say,

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well, yeah, I've heard of
this, like with Top Gun, maybe

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Black Hawk Down, maybe
some of the Marvel series.

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MATTHEW ALFORD: But what they don't
know is how systematic this has been,

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and how huge this
operation has been.

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SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: Now these
Freedom of Information requests

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that have been
successful allow us

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to actually look at that list.

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And it's stunning.

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MATTHEW ALFORD:
What we've found is

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that thousands upon thousands
upon thousands of products

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have been affected and are
often rewritten at script level

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by the national security
state in the United States.

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Do normal people
know about that?

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No, of course they don't.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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So say you're a producer and
you want to make a war film.

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SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: You would
walk into the Entertainment Liaison

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office in downtown Los Angeles.

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MATTHEW ALFORD: You say I want
to film an Air Force base,

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or I want an aircraft carrier,
or I want some Black Hawk

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helicopters, or whatever it is.

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And they would tell
you straight away,

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give us your entire script.

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They're not stupid.

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They're not saying, just
give us those sections

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where some dialogue takes
place about the military.

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They want to have the
entire manuscript.

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So that they can get
a sense of the broader

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context in which the
military is being portrayed.

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If they go through
the script and say,

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we don't really look
that heroic on page 18,

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we're going to need
you to change page 18,

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the filmmaker either
usually has to acquiesce

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or the Pentagon
says, that's fine.

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You have the freedom
to not change it.

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But we're going to take
our toys and go home.

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Now, it's up to the
filmmaker to decide,

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do I want to accept
and make these changes?

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MATTHEW ALFORD: You'll
end up signing a contract.

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And then you're
locked into that.

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You're making a film with the
DOD, the Department of Defense,

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as your ally.

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And they are a really important
collaborator within that.

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They're effectively
like another producer.

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ROGER STAHL: You might wonder
what the military's own rules say

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about this.

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It turns out, for
decades, the directive

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was to promote
authenticity and dignity

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of military representation.

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Such a thing is open to
interpretation, of course.

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But after 1988,
the list expanded.

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Now, they were to
promote something

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called public understanding,
recruiting, and official policy

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positions.

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It's still a bit
abstract on paper.

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Whose interests are
being served in practice?

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MATTHEW ALFORD: Producers are
able to get cut-price helicopters,

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cut-price tanks, cut-price
aircraft carriers,

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as well as men, and
material, and advice.

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And the more realistic,
of course, a film can be,

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the bigger the chances are
for being big box office hits.

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And the DOD says this
is a wonderful opportunity

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to present ourselves before
the public in a positive light

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through a medium that is
mass, that is commercial,

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that isn't inflected with
negative connotations

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of propaganda.

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ROGER STAHL: Just listen
to how the Pentagon itself

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puts it in the weekly activities
entry for the 2013 film Lone

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Survivor.

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"Entertainment
feature films like

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this reach far greater audiences
than any single news media

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story.

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Audiences going to see
the film will voluntarily

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sit through a two
hour infomercial."

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If you're a producer who can
deliver this kind of thing,

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you just might have a
career on your hands.

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SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: There are
particular types of directors and filmmakers

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the Pentagon really
likes to work with

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and has been working with
repeatedly, because they know

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that they can trust them,
people like Jerry Bruckheimer,

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people like Michael Bay.

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PHIL STRUB: We've worked with
Mr. Bay here since Armageddon,

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if I'm not mistaken, and
hope to do more of the same.

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ROGER STAHL: That's Phil Strub.

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He directed the
office for 30 years.

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You'll be seeing a lot of him.

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The name of the
game in his world

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is leveraging military
access to tilt the narrative

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and to maintain persistent
relationships with the Michael

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Bays out there.

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I've got a direct
line to the Pentagon.

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ROGER STAHL: For them, it's
a matter of greenlighting

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projects the office will like.

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They know that their scripts
are going to get vetted.

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So what the effect
quite often is

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is that filmmakers already
write their scripts in ways

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that they know will ultimately
please the Pentagon.

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Once we said we're
interested, then we

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met with Simpson/Bruckheimer.

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They very much wanted us.

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We were concerned about will
the military allow us to do it.

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Because I didn't want to
get involved in a movie that

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didn't get made.

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I just-- I really wanted
to get something made.

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Because we had written six
pictures before this, and not

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one of them got shot.

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SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: People self-censor
and tame down any potential critical

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view, because they
know otherwise,

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it's going to get a desk
reject straight away.

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ROGER STAHL: The CIA
essentially copied this model

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when it opened its
own office in 1996.

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TRICIA JENKINS: But what they
figured out is that they can be really

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effective in the
pre-production stage.

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And so they work a lot
with screen writers

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as ideas are being
formed or drafted

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in order to be able to have a
say in how the agency is going

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to be represented.

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ROGER STAHL: As
you might imagine,

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no one involved in these deals,
whether it be the CIA, DOD,

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or entertainment
industry at large,

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is exactly clamoring to
talk about them publicly.

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SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: And perhaps
that's not surprising.

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You would have to ask
yourself as someone

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who goes to the cinema whether
I want to pay to actually watch

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some propaganda stuff.

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This relationship
is not secret.

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It's just that they don't want
to make a big thing of it.

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What they don't
want anyone to know

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is that this is
done systematically.

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And they also are particularly
wary of the public knowing

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about script rewrites.

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If people actually
saw a script

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and then looked at the kind
of blue bowdlerizing lines

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that the military had
done on the script,

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I think people would begin
to realize how dangerous

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and how censorious this
kind of activity is.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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ROGER STAHL: To see how
all this works, just

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look at how the
Entertainment Office has

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used the biggest weapon
in its arsenal, rejection.

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It can put a production at
a distinct disadvantage.

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Say you want to make a film
based on the Kennedy White

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House tapes about how
military leaders almost

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got us into a nuclear war
during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

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That'll earn you a solid one.

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You'll have to go to the
Philippines for old planes

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to repaint and military bases.

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You'll have to construct
U2 sequences from scratch

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and beg a museum
for a destroyer.

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Rejections like this have become
more common over the years.

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On the heels of World
War II, the Pentagon

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assisted a long list of films.

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But it rarely flat
out denied filmmakers.

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As Americans began to deal with
a more controversial history

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00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,430
of military intervention,
though, the rejections

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00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,740
started to come,
first with films

246
00:11:04,790 --> 00:11:08,880
that failed to celebrate US
military action in Vietnam

247
00:11:08,930 --> 00:11:12,540
and continuing with the Cold
War, Gulf Wars, and issues way

248
00:11:12,590 --> 00:11:14,460
beyond war films.

249
00:11:14,510 --> 00:11:16,020
But these were
only the rejections

250
00:11:16,070 --> 00:11:18,150
that were lucky enough
to still be made.

251
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,620
Many more weren't.

252
00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:23,700
That is no military assistance
often means no show.

253
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:26,610
Producer Jerry Bruckheimer said
that without military help,

254
00:11:26,660 --> 00:11:28,860
he couldn't have
made Pearl Harbor.

255
00:11:28,910 --> 00:11:30,780
It apparently means a
lot when the Navy pulls

256
00:11:30,830 --> 00:11:33,180
more than 20 Vietnam
era destroyers out

257
00:11:33,230 --> 00:11:35,640
of storage for you to blow up.

258
00:11:35,690 --> 00:11:38,070
There wouldn't have been a Top
Gun without support either,

259
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:39,750
he said.

260
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,030
Most of the time, it comes
down to the studio's need

261
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,010
to keep costs low.

262
00:11:44,060 --> 00:11:47,250
Take The Hunt for Red
October, producer Mace Neufeld

263
00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:49,050
said Paramount
straight up told him

264
00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:51,720
if you don't get cooperation,
we won't make the movie.

265
00:11:51,770 --> 00:11:53,722
And they put it in the contract.

266
00:11:53,772 --> 00:11:55,680
It was a good thing for
Neufeld that the script

267
00:11:55,730 --> 00:11:57,150
was an easy sell.

268
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,350
It set him up for the
long Jack Ryan franchise.

269
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,280
In contrast, consider another
'90s film, Countermeasures.

270
00:12:05,330 --> 00:12:06,960
If it doesn't ring a
bell, it's probably

271
00:12:07,010 --> 00:12:08,760
because it was never made.

272
00:12:08,810 --> 00:12:11,310
Sigourney Weaver had signed
on to play the lead role.

273
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,860
But that didn't matter as
much as what the Entertainment

274
00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:15,090
Office thought.

275
00:12:15,140 --> 00:12:17,250
They didn't want a story
about weapons smuggling

276
00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:19,320
on an aircraft carrier.

277
00:12:19,370 --> 00:12:22,770
MATTHEW ALFORD: That was rejected
explicitly on the grounds

278
00:12:22,820 --> 00:12:26,430
that we don't want to
denigrate the White House.

279
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,000
We don't want to remind the
public of the Iran-Contra

280
00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:33,540
scandal, which involved
illegal arms sales,

281
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:36,480
and drug running, and
arming of Contra rebels,

282
00:12:36,530 --> 00:12:39,900
and all sorts of horrendous
things in the '80s.

283
00:12:39,950 --> 00:12:42,660
ROGER STAHL: In this case,
the Pentagon got its wish.

284
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:44,250
The public was not reminded.

285
00:12:48,570 --> 00:12:50,560
The Office's own
database is littered

286
00:12:50,610 --> 00:12:52,610
with these denials never made.

287
00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:54,610
So no Eagle in the Sky.

288
00:12:54,660 --> 00:12:57,890
Denied, and never made.

289
00:12:57,940 --> 00:13:00,890
And no Recovery.

290
00:13:00,940 --> 00:13:03,470
It's clear from its own
notes that the Pentagon knows

291
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,630
a denial can shoot down a film.

292
00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:07,910
The entry for A
Moral Issue concludes

293
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,800
that since the film
was never produced,

294
00:13:09,850 --> 00:13:12,800
the answer must have been no.

295
00:13:12,850 --> 00:13:15,260
Here's a sample of titles
from the '80s and '90s,

296
00:13:15,310 --> 00:13:20,670
all denied and never made, so
you can see what you missed.

297
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,600
What themes can earn a
film a denial, you ask.

298
00:13:23,650 --> 00:13:25,610
We start to see a
clear pattern when

299
00:13:25,660 --> 00:13:27,380
you look through the documents.

300
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:30,680
The office internally
calls these showstoppers.

301
00:13:30,730 --> 00:13:35,180
And yeah, sometimes
they can stop the show.

302
00:13:35,230 --> 00:13:38,120
The Pentagon publicly says it
denies films because they're

303
00:13:38,170 --> 00:13:40,640
in some way unrealistic.

304
00:13:40,690 --> 00:13:42,110
But you don't have
to be an expert

305
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:43,730
to scratch your
head when it comes

306
00:13:43,780 --> 00:13:45,470
to something like Top Gun.

307
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,870
Just listen to what the
consultants and writers

308
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,150
admitted in retrospect.

309
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,160
The idea that people
chase people around,

310
00:13:52,210 --> 00:13:55,490
trying to get Sidewinder tones,
particularly down in the dirt,

311
00:13:55,540 --> 00:13:57,080
is not reality at all.

312
00:13:57,130 --> 00:14:00,470
It's not realistic compared
to what we do every day.

313
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,300
And I said, well,
there's no trophy.

314
00:14:02,350 --> 00:14:03,980
I said, if there was
a Top Gun trophy,

315
00:14:04,030 --> 00:14:05,480
no one would ever graduate.

316
00:14:05,530 --> 00:14:07,670
You don't understand the
intensity of these guys.

317
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,250
It would all be midair
collisions, and crashes,

318
00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:11,241
and everybody'd die.

319
00:14:11,291 --> 00:14:12,950
Nobody would ever
graduate from Top Gun.

320
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,200
JACK EPPS JR: It's
very anti-Top Gun.

321
00:14:15,250 --> 00:14:17,220
Maverick as a character
is anti-Top Gun.

322
00:14:17,270 --> 00:14:18,540
It's all about being together.

323
00:14:18,590 --> 00:14:19,923
So it was a dramatic license.

324
00:14:19,973 --> 00:14:20,841
And I think it worked.

325
00:14:20,891 --> 00:14:24,242
Never let the truth get in
the way of a good movie.

326
00:14:24,292 --> 00:14:25,700
ROGER STAHL: None
of these concerns

327
00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:29,220
appeared in the Pentagon's list
of requested script changes.

328
00:14:29,270 --> 00:14:30,983
In fact, a memo from
the Marine Corps

329
00:14:31,033 --> 00:14:32,900
later admitted that the
Pentagon had supported

330
00:14:32,950 --> 00:14:35,030
lots of unrealistic scenes.

331
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,340
In Top Gun, they said,
buzzing the tower wouldn't

332
00:14:37,390 --> 00:14:40,250
have happened without
career ending consequences.

333
00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:43,580
And the famous inversion
scene simply couldn't happen.

334
00:14:43,630 --> 00:14:45,320
The Marine Office
assembled this list

335
00:14:45,370 --> 00:14:47,660
not to keep everyone honest,
but rather to justify

336
00:14:47,710 --> 00:14:50,720
an unrealistic scene of its
own, a Harrier jet flying

337
00:14:50,770 --> 00:14:52,938
through a cave for
a Top Gun style film

338
00:14:52,988 --> 00:14:53,856
they hoped to develop.

339
00:14:56,830 --> 00:14:59,450
The issue of realism
comes to a head with films

340
00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:01,670
written by vets themselves.

341
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,160
Surely they must pass
the authenticity test

342
00:15:04,210 --> 00:15:06,230
if Top Gun did.

343
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,360
Jarhead was based on
the celebrated book

344
00:15:08,410 --> 00:15:11,420
by Marine vet Anthony Swofford
and adapted for the screen

345
00:15:11,470 --> 00:15:13,310
by another marine vet.

346
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,230
The DOD has one look
at the script, though,

347
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,180
and finds too many
serious concerns.

348
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:21,110
They don't want audiences
to see what Swofford saw,

349
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,960
like a sniper trainer praising
the Kennedy assassination

350
00:15:24,010 --> 00:15:27,440
as the perfect shot, Marines
getting excited for war,

351
00:15:27,490 --> 00:15:29,750
boasting about killing
ragheads and shooting

352
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,720
Bedouin camels, references
to friendly fire,

353
00:15:32,770 --> 00:15:37,197
and attempted suicide, and
an abusive drill instructor.

354
00:15:37,247 --> 00:15:39,530
DRILL INSTRUCTOR: What the
fuck are you even doing here?

355
00:15:39,580 --> 00:15:42,230
Sir, I got lost on
the way to college, sir.

356
00:15:44,493 --> 00:15:45,860
ROGER STAHL: In
fact, the Pentagon

357
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:47,510
sees the movie as
such a threat that it

358
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,520
moves to block the
director from recruiting

359
00:15:49,570 --> 00:15:52,970
any off-duty military
personnel as extras.

360
00:15:53,020 --> 00:15:55,543
When the film premieres, the
Office explains to the press

361
00:15:55,593 --> 00:15:57,710
that it denied Jarhead
assistance because it was not

362
00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,780
a quote, "feasible
interpretation

363
00:15:59,830 --> 00:16:01,580
of military life."

364
00:16:01,630 --> 00:16:03,860
Reporters from NPR
and the LA Times

365
00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:06,140
ask if they can take a
few Marines to the film

366
00:16:06,190 --> 00:16:07,820
and get their reactions.

367
00:16:07,870 --> 00:16:11,390
"Absolutely not," says
the Entertainment Office.

368
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,460
But eventually outlets
like the San Diego

369
00:16:13,510 --> 00:16:17,570
Tribune do manage to scare up
some Marine vets, who guess what?

370
00:16:17,620 --> 00:16:19,805
Universally laud the
film for its realism.

371
00:16:25,477 --> 00:16:28,430
Or take Fields of Fire
from the early '90s,

372
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,220
which was denied and
ultimately never made.

373
00:16:31,270 --> 00:16:34,190
This one was notable because it
had some real muscle behind it,

374
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,430
Jim Webb, a highly
decorated Marine Vietnam vet

375
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:38,930
who had written a
best selling novel

376
00:16:38,980 --> 00:16:41,242
and would go on to
be a US Senator.

377
00:16:41,292 --> 00:16:42,950
At the time, he had
just come off a stint

378
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,140
as Secretary of the Navy.

379
00:16:45,190 --> 00:16:47,660
Now, that's some
credibility, right?

380
00:16:47,710 --> 00:16:50,600
Not enough for Phil Strub
at the Pentagon office.

381
00:16:50,650 --> 00:16:53,000
The script, he says, makes
it look like "fragging,

382
00:16:53,050 --> 00:16:55,940
burning villages, executing
prisoners, and drug abuse where

383
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:57,710
everyday occurrences."

384
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,470
Yes these things
happen, but mostly not.

385
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,500
"Consider making
substantive changes."

386
00:17:03,550 --> 00:17:05,809
The Marine Corps, for
its part, disagrees

387
00:17:05,859 --> 00:17:07,730
and asks him to reconsider.

388
00:17:07,780 --> 00:17:10,789
Webb's book is required
reading for Marine officers

389
00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:13,460
and is generally acknowledged
by Marine Vietnam veterans

390
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:16,850
as the most genuine
fictional account of the war.

391
00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:19,297
Webb himself had
some strong words.

392
00:17:19,347 --> 00:17:21,380
"It appears to me that
what you're really saying

393
00:17:21,430 --> 00:17:23,090
is that when it
comes to Vietnam,

394
00:17:23,140 --> 00:17:25,910
DOD will support only
sterile documentaries

395
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,680
or feature films that
amount to nothing

396
00:17:27,730 --> 00:17:30,410
more than dishonest propaganda."

397
00:17:30,460 --> 00:17:32,570
Sorry, says Strub.

398
00:17:32,620 --> 00:17:35,510
And it became a Vietnam
film we didn't get to see.

399
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,760
I kept thinking about
Oliver Stone, too.

400
00:17:41,810 --> 00:17:43,530
Before becoming
a filmmaker, this

401
00:17:43,580 --> 00:17:45,690
was a guy who had
volunteered specifically

402
00:17:45,740 --> 00:17:49,650
for combat duty in Vietnam
and emerged a decorated vet.

403
00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:52,680
His early breakouts are still
lauded as the most realistic

404
00:17:52,730 --> 00:17:54,900
of the post-Vietnam wave.

405
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:57,330
But it was a real uphill
battle with the Pentagon,

406
00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:59,700
rejection after rejection.

407
00:17:59,750 --> 00:18:02,970
Platoon for a long list
of unacceptable themes.

408
00:18:03,020 --> 00:18:04,530
Born on the Fourth
of July because it

409
00:18:04,580 --> 00:18:07,320
made a strong statement against
participating in the Vietnam

410
00:18:07,370 --> 00:18:08,191
War.

411
00:18:08,241 --> 00:18:11,700
Both were put on hold for years.

412
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:13,230
I'd give my right
eye to hear what

413
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,230
the man himself had
to say about all this.

414
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,960
Luckily, he had read some of
Alford and Secker's early work

415
00:18:19,010 --> 00:18:20,340
and was impressed.

416
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:22,140
Matt was able to
shake a few trees

417
00:18:22,190 --> 00:18:24,870
and get an interview for me.

418
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,600
Military veteran,
Hollywood veteran,

419
00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:30,900
I pictured it going down
something like this.

420
00:18:30,950 --> 00:18:32,760
I assume if you've
come this far, what

421
00:18:32,810 --> 00:18:34,800
I have to say interests you.

422
00:18:34,850 --> 00:18:36,650
But I'm not going to
name names and tell you

423
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:40,990
who or what I represent,
except to say you're close.

424
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:42,810
ROGER STAHL: I wasn't
prepared for this.

425
00:18:42,860 --> 00:18:45,690
Obviously, I was
shocked by some of these--

426
00:18:45,740 --> 00:18:49,530
what these films had to go
through to get what they call

427
00:18:49,580 --> 00:18:51,990
weapons of war,
Pentagon cooperation,

428
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,740
as well as CIA cooperation.

429
00:18:55,790 --> 00:18:59,770
It's a gigantic iceberg
that you've touched.

430
00:18:59,820 --> 00:19:02,160
ROGER STAHL: Wait, Oliver
Stone can't believe

431
00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:04,780
how deep the story goes.

432
00:19:04,830 --> 00:19:07,180
It raises the question,
could the industry

433
00:19:07,230 --> 00:19:10,030
be in the dark as much
as the rest of us?

434
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:15,510
I guess you know what they
say, the best PR is invisible.

435
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,150
But what about his
firsthand experience?

436
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,710
I wrote Platoon as a
naive young screenwriter,

437
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,200
because it was the truth
of what I saw in Vietnam.

438
00:19:25,250 --> 00:19:27,780
Of course, it was dramatized.

439
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:30,210
And at some point, I
forgot exactly when,

440
00:19:30,260 --> 00:19:35,760
we sent in the script and
asked for their cooperation.

441
00:19:35,810 --> 00:19:38,910
We got a pretty definite
turndown from them,

442
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:44,850
saying this was an
unrealistic portrayal of GIs.

443
00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:48,510
ROGER STAHL: It was about this
time that Top Gun paid a visit.

444
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,420
OLIVER STONE: I was offered the script
when it was a magazine article

445
00:19:51,470 --> 00:19:53,580
or something way
back by Don Simpson.

446
00:19:53,630 --> 00:19:54,850
I just couldn't do it.

447
00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:55,831
I thought it was--

448
00:19:55,881 --> 00:19:58,050
I knew-- at that point, I
was accepting that Platoon

449
00:19:58,100 --> 00:19:58,926
would never get done.

450
00:19:58,976 --> 00:20:02,100
You have to understand,
I had shelved Platoon.

451
00:20:02,150 --> 00:20:03,570
I put it out of my mind.

452
00:20:03,620 --> 00:20:06,510
I had written Born on the Fourth
of July and Platoon and I--

453
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,160
both projects had died.

454
00:20:08,210 --> 00:20:11,160
STAHL (to Stone): It is astonishing that
you were offered the Top Gun script.

455
00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:13,710
That is an astonishing fact.

456
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,410
And I'm still trying
to process that.

457
00:20:16,460 --> 00:20:19,350
ROGER STAHL: It would have made
for an easier start on a career.

458
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,720
While Top Gun was opening
up the after burners

459
00:20:21,770 --> 00:20:25,380
with full military support,
Platoon and Born on the Fourth

460
00:20:25,430 --> 00:20:28,350
barely made it out
of the jungle alive.

461
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,360
It's not the only
factor in play, I know.

462
00:20:30,410 --> 00:20:33,030
But this is how the
military's invisible hand

463
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,700
moves over Hollywood.

464
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:37,050
STAHL (to Stone):
Do you recognize this?

465
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:40,800
I wanted to bring a gift for
you, blast from the past.

466
00:20:40,850 --> 00:20:44,360
ROGER STAHL: I had his Platoon
rejection letter framed.

467
00:20:46,250 --> 00:20:48,182
I never saw this.

468
00:20:48,232 --> 00:20:49,890
It's funny they mention
what I mentioned,

469
00:20:49,940 --> 00:20:53,010
the murder and rape of
innocent Vietnamese villagers.

470
00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:55,570
Well, I saw both.

471
00:20:55,620 --> 00:20:58,150
The cold blooded murder of
one US soldier by another,

472
00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,081
did not see that.

473
00:20:59,131 --> 00:21:01,720
But certainly, there's
reports of it up and down.

474
00:21:01,770 --> 00:21:04,960
They have admitted to
fragging, how many were

475
00:21:05,010 --> 00:21:07,990
killed in fragging incidents,
I imagine they minimized it.

476
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,090
And the portrayal of the
majority as illiterate

477
00:21:10,140 --> 00:21:13,630
delinquents.

478
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,090
The entire script is rife
with unrealistic and highly

479
00:21:16,140 --> 00:21:18,950
unfavorable depictions.

480
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,500
So I'm glad you got this.

481
00:21:20,550 --> 00:21:22,450
That's 1984.

482
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:25,090
That would be the second time I
tried to do the movie with Dino

483
00:21:25,140 --> 00:21:26,860
de Laurentiis.

484
00:21:26,910 --> 00:21:29,080
I'd love to get a copy
of that, by the way.

485
00:21:29,130 --> 00:21:30,880
Oh, thank you so much.

486
00:21:30,930 --> 00:21:34,390
The whole ethos of
that office, Pentagon,

487
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,670
is that they're supposed
to provide accuracy

488
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,800
to the filmmakers, accuracy.

489
00:21:38,850 --> 00:21:41,690
And they do the opposite.

490
00:21:41,740 --> 00:21:45,632
They provide
inaccuracy and lies.

491
00:21:45,682 --> 00:21:47,590
You show the bad side as
well as the good side.

492
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,270
We keep making military
movies, especially since 2001,

493
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,960
glorifying the American soldier,
glorifying our patriotism,

494
00:21:56,010 --> 00:21:59,360
nationalism, homeland,
all this nonsense.

495
00:21:59,410 --> 00:22:01,540
We make it into this fetish.

496
00:22:01,590 --> 00:22:03,190
We fetishize the military.

497
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,490
No one can say a
bad word about them.

498
00:22:06,540 --> 00:22:08,530
This is wrong.

499
00:22:08,580 --> 00:22:11,988
You have to point out
evil when it happens.

500
00:22:12,038 --> 00:22:15,271
[MUSIC PLAYING]

501
00:22:18,388 --> 00:22:19,880
ROGER STAHL: Before
we go any deeper,

502
00:22:19,930 --> 00:22:21,630
you might wonder how
it is we came to know

503
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,148
what goes on in that office.

504
00:22:23,198 --> 00:22:25,190
I'll tell you one thing,
we didn't learn about it

505
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,720
from the news.

506
00:22:26,770 --> 00:22:28,460
On the exceedingly
rare occasions

507
00:22:28,510 --> 00:22:30,500
when the issue does
get press attention,

508
00:22:30,550 --> 00:22:32,780
this is the kind
of thing you get.

509
00:22:32,830 --> 00:22:34,340
REPORTER: Phil Strub
reviews scripts,

510
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:38,840
deciding if a script has the
glimmer of realism or fun

511
00:22:38,890 --> 00:22:40,940
he's looking for.

512
00:22:40,990 --> 00:22:42,560
ROGER STAHL: Realism and fun.

513
00:22:42,610 --> 00:22:44,392
Sounds innocent enough.

514
00:22:44,442 --> 00:22:46,100
If you wanted to know
any more than that,

515
00:22:46,150 --> 00:22:49,130
though, for decades, there
was just one place to look.

516
00:22:49,180 --> 00:22:53,990
There was one guy, basically,
one historian who totally

517
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,510
dominated this field in the
'70s, '80s, '90s, all the way

518
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:00,740
up into the 2000s.

519
00:23:00,790 --> 00:23:04,100
ANCHOR: The film and military historian,
whose book, Guts and Glory,

520
00:23:04,150 --> 00:23:06,830
is recognized as the definitive
study of the relationship

521
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,520
between the military and
movie industry, Lawrence Suid.

522
00:23:10,570 --> 00:23:16,640
MATTHEW ALFORD: And he
was the person who had all

523
00:23:16,690 --> 00:23:19,250
of the relevant
documentation on this.

524
00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:22,110
But Suid was the only
person writing about it.

525
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,300
And so scholars didn't even
bother looking into it.

526
00:23:26,350 --> 00:23:28,580
ROGER STAHL: Suid largely
bypassed any concerns

527
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:31,100
about steering public
opinion and instead told

528
00:23:31,150 --> 00:23:33,350
a story about the
military constantly fixing

529
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,450
Hollywood's mistakes.

530
00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:37,370
Eventually, though,
someone else came along

531
00:23:37,420 --> 00:23:39,320
and did a little muckraking.

532
00:23:39,370 --> 00:23:44,960
MATTHEW ALFORD: It was in 2004
that a journalist, a kind of maverick

533
00:23:45,010 --> 00:23:47,060
journalist who I
quite like called

534
00:23:47,110 --> 00:23:50,738
David Robb decided that he
was going to investigate this.

535
00:23:50,788 --> 00:23:53,030
ROGER STAHL: Robb interviewed
a bunch of industry folks

536
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,920
and combed the few
public documents

537
00:23:54,970 --> 00:23:57,590
the DOD had made available
to Georgetown University

538
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,390
and the National Archives.

539
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,820
He somehow persuaded the
Marine Corps Office in LA

540
00:24:01,870 --> 00:24:03,710
to give him a peek, too.

541
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,210
MATTHEW ALFORD: He acquired
much of the initial documentation.

542
00:24:08,260 --> 00:24:13,130
And he was able to punch a big
hole in what Lawrence Suid had

543
00:24:13,180 --> 00:24:17,505
been saying for the
previous 30 or 40 years.

544
00:24:17,555 --> 00:24:19,880
ROGER STAHL: It was nowhere
near a comprehensive picture,

545
00:24:19,930 --> 00:24:21,440
but this was the
first time someone

546
00:24:21,490 --> 00:24:23,565
had made the case that the
Entertainment Office was

547
00:24:23,615 --> 00:24:26,180
a sophisticated
propaganda machine.

548
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:28,790
Suid did not like this at all.

549
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,460
He wrote a scathing review
that all but charged Robb

550
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:33,590
with fabrication and
dismissed the idea

551
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,960
that the office wielded
any influence over movies

552
00:24:36,010 --> 00:24:38,240
beyond making them
more accurate.

553
00:24:38,290 --> 00:24:41,330
Robb shot back, calling
the review libelous.

554
00:24:41,380 --> 00:24:44,030
It has to be the most
contentious exchange I've ever

555
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,640
seen in an academic journal.

556
00:24:46,690 --> 00:24:48,740
But Robb's work inspired
other researchers

557
00:24:48,790 --> 00:24:50,450
like Matthew Alford,
who set out to get

558
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:52,610
a full sense of the operation.

559
00:24:52,660 --> 00:24:56,780
And this is two decades,
three decades after these things

560
00:24:56,830 --> 00:24:58,370
should have been investigated.

561
00:24:58,420 --> 00:24:59,702
I started looking into it.

562
00:24:59,752 --> 00:25:01,910
And of course, I contacted
the Department of Defense.

563
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,490
I contact Phil Strub.

564
00:25:04,540 --> 00:25:09,110
And Strub can say to me, oh, we
don't have that documentation.

565
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,107
We've given it to Lawrence Suid.

566
00:25:13,157 --> 00:25:14,690
ROGER STAHL: So he
picked up the trail

567
00:25:14,740 --> 00:25:17,390
himself, just across the
pond and just up the river

568
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,802
from the Pentagon at
Georgetown University Library.

569
00:25:20,852 --> 00:25:22,010
MATTHEW ALFORD:
You asked if I was nervous.

570
00:25:22,060 --> 00:25:23,990
And a little bit nervous.

571
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,450
Not really nervous
about being on camera.

572
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:30,110
But nervous because I've just
spent a large amount of money

573
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,340
to come over to a library.

574
00:25:33,390 --> 00:25:36,675
And I've spent over $1,000
to come to a library.

575
00:25:36,725 --> 00:25:39,050
ROGER STAHL: There, he found
the public collection of DOD

576
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:42,060
donated documents, which
he could access no problem.

577
00:25:42,110 --> 00:25:44,360
But then there was Suid's
personal collection,

578
00:25:44,410 --> 00:25:46,580
which Georgetown held
quite separately.

579
00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:49,640
This was the real prize,
the documents the DOD had

580
00:25:49,690 --> 00:25:52,190
given exclusively to Suid.

581
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,950
MATTHEW ALFORD: So every time
anyone wanted to go

582
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,810
into that private
collection, which

583
00:25:56,860 --> 00:25:58,970
as far as I can tell,
no one ever did,

584
00:25:59,020 --> 00:26:01,370
because it was never
advertised, it was never--

585
00:26:01,420 --> 00:26:04,370
there was no kind of
publicity or awareness

586
00:26:04,420 --> 00:26:08,300
of this whole thing, but when I
tried to get into that archive

587
00:26:08,350 --> 00:26:10,250
and when a couple
of my colleagues

588
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:12,950
tried to get into that
archive, Lawrence Suid

589
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,840
was able simply to say no.

590
00:26:14,890 --> 00:26:17,640
I'm using that.

591
00:26:17,690 --> 00:26:20,370
ROGER STAHL: What do you do if
you get stonewalled like this?

592
00:26:20,420 --> 00:26:22,740
Well, you need a real bulldog.

593
00:26:22,790 --> 00:26:25,980
Enter another enterprising
Brit, freelance journalist Tom

594
00:26:26,030 --> 00:26:27,030
Secker.

595
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,330
Having read Robb's work, too, he
had been carpet bombing the DOD

596
00:26:30,380 --> 00:26:32,940
with Freedom of
Information Act requests.

597
00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:34,680
Hey guys, we've got
some new documents.

598
00:26:34,730 --> 00:26:39,870
These are some DOD script notes
on the film Pitch Perfect 3.

599
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,330
MATTHEW ALFORD: In fact, the
government was so annoyed

600
00:26:42,380 --> 00:26:44,280
at the amount of
document requests

601
00:26:44,330 --> 00:26:48,480
that Tom Secker put in that
they labeled him a vexatious

602
00:26:48,530 --> 00:26:50,880
requester.

603
00:26:50,930 --> 00:26:53,393
And so Tom, and I think
Tom actually found out

604
00:26:53,443 --> 00:26:55,560
that he was called a vexatious
requester, because he

605
00:26:55,610 --> 00:26:58,470
put in a request for any
information about himself

606
00:26:58,520 --> 00:26:59,910
in emails.

607
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:03,750
And so from that point, I
think I said to Tom, well,

608
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,480
maybe you should put
in more requests.

609
00:27:06,530 --> 00:27:09,460
And Tom said, oh yeah,
I'd quite like to do that.

610
00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:12,930
And then, it just
snowballed from that point.

611
00:27:12,980 --> 00:27:16,350
And we ended up having
thousands and thousands of pages

612
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:17,958
of documentation come in.

613
00:27:18,008 --> 00:27:19,500
ROGER STAHL: Internal
correspondence,

614
00:27:19,550 --> 00:27:22,770
activity reports, line
by line script changes.

615
00:27:22,820 --> 00:27:25,050
The world was opening up.

616
00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:26,700
Then another break.

617
00:27:26,750 --> 00:27:28,800
In an email, Phil
Strub offhandedly

618
00:27:28,850 --> 00:27:31,710
mentioned the existence
of an incomplete database.

619
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,020
So Tom put in a request for it.

620
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:35,850
First, the army
denied having it.

621
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,120
And then later that year,
the request came through.

622
00:27:39,170 --> 00:27:41,490
This was the Rosetta Stone.

623
00:27:41,540 --> 00:27:43,410
Although missing lots
of entries, the database

624
00:27:43,460 --> 00:27:48,580
listed 900, all the way to the
present, films and TV shows.

625
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:49,950
It was a bit of a shock.

626
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,080
When we interviewed
Strub, a few years back,

627
00:27:52,130 --> 00:27:54,540
he denied even keeping count.

628
00:27:54,590 --> 00:27:58,380
Well, I don't have
an exact number that

629
00:27:58,430 --> 00:28:02,460
would describe what pictures
the department was involved with

630
00:28:02,510 --> 00:28:03,131
or--

631
00:28:03,181 --> 00:28:05,130
ROGER STAHL: Before all
these document releases,

632
00:28:05,180 --> 00:28:07,800
you had to assume that the
DOD and CIA had affected

633
00:28:07,850 --> 00:28:09,840
only a couple hundred films.

634
00:28:09,890 --> 00:28:12,360
Now we could account
for 10 times that many,

635
00:28:12,410 --> 00:28:16,440
more than 2,500 films
and television shows.

636
00:28:16,490 --> 00:28:18,480
Count up the
individual TV episodes,

637
00:28:18,530 --> 00:28:19,830
and it's thousands more.

638
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:26,050
Naturally, the CIA files
have been harder to crack.

639
00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:31,870
TRICIA JENKINS: It's tough, because
the CIA has been less transparent than

640
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,290
the Department of Defense in
terms of how they work with

641
00:28:35,340 --> 00:28:39,190
Hollywood, because so much
of their stuff is done

642
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,870
in the pre-production stage.

643
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,110
It happens in conversations
over the phone.

644
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,460
There's not a paper trail.

645
00:28:46,510 --> 00:28:48,010
There are emails
that are exchanged.

646
00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:50,170
But you have to get
access to those emails

647
00:28:50,220 --> 00:28:51,940
through a FOIA request.

648
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:53,360
Sometimes those are denied.

649
00:28:53,410 --> 00:28:55,700
Sometimes those take
years to come to fruition.

650
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:58,570
And so this relationship,
and exactly how it works,

651
00:28:58,620 --> 00:29:01,420
and what scenes the CIA
has objected to, what

652
00:29:01,470 --> 00:29:04,990
scenes they were pushing in
order to have them incorporated

653
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,070
into the final product
is a very murky world

654
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,250
that's very hard for
academics to penetrate.

655
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,200
ROGER STAHL: While the
CIA material trickled in,

656
00:29:17,250 --> 00:29:20,410
the DOD story took
a dramatic turn.

657
00:29:20,460 --> 00:29:21,790
I knew Suid had been ailing.

658
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,580
But in late 2019,
Georgetown Library

659
00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:27,460
informed me that he passed away.

660
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:30,260
I would never get to meet him.

661
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:33,230
I would get to meet
his archive, though.

662
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,480
I was shocked to learn that
his estate had opened it

663
00:29:35,530 --> 00:29:36,560
to the public.

664
00:29:36,610 --> 00:29:40,340
And I was the first
to have a look.

665
00:29:40,390 --> 00:29:43,250
The collection truly
took my breath away,

666
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:45,830
a mountain of official
documents that blew the lid

667
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,110
off the whole operation.

668
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,870
But a few other things
caught my eye, too.

669
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,120
There were these little notes
from the Pentagon Office

670
00:29:53,170 --> 00:29:55,100
that suggested Suid
just had to ask,

671
00:29:55,150 --> 00:29:58,550
and they'd hand the
documents right over.

672
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,760
There was also a big stash
of audiotaped interviews.

673
00:30:01,810 --> 00:30:03,770
It struck me that the
ones with Phil Strub

674
00:30:03,820 --> 00:30:05,570
seemed pretty chummy.

675
00:30:05,620 --> 00:30:07,250
Strub promises to give up files.

676
00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:10,910
And you can hear him tapping
away at the Pentagon database.

677
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,977
LAWRENCE SUID:
GI Jane has a file?

678
00:30:13,027 --> 00:30:14,060
PHIL STRUB: Probably, yes.

679
00:30:14,110 --> 00:30:15,950
LAWRENCE SUID:
OK, but no cooperation.

680
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,050
Tuskegee Airmen, you
gave them some help?

681
00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:20,270
PHIL STRUB: Oh, yeah, big time.

682
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,600
What was the one I was
just going to look up?

683
00:30:22,650 --> 00:30:23,451
Forrest Gump.

684
00:30:23,501 --> 00:30:25,310
LAWRENCE SUID:
Yeah, Forrest Gump.

685
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,470
ROGER STAHL: Apparently
Strub gave Suid database

686
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,210
login privileges.

687
00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:31,850
I found a screenshot
in the collection.

688
00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:34,032
That's some high
level clearance.

689
00:30:34,082 --> 00:30:35,490
LAWRENCE SUID: I
have that written.

690
00:30:35,540 --> 00:30:38,065
You'll see the
manuscript, The Siege.

691
00:30:38,115 --> 00:30:39,440
ROGER STAHL: Hold
on, did he just

692
00:30:39,490 --> 00:30:42,680
tell Strub you'll
see the manuscript?

693
00:30:42,730 --> 00:30:44,810
Then I discovered
older taped interviews

694
00:30:44,860 --> 00:30:47,990
with Donald Baruch, who ran
the office before Strub.

695
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,595
He's giving notes on the
Guts and Glory manuscript.

696
00:30:51,645 --> 00:30:52,970
DON BARUCH: At
the top of page 5,

697
00:30:53,020 --> 00:30:54,950
you say "filled with
historic--" this

698
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,100
is in regard to Deer Hunter.

699
00:30:58,150 --> 00:30:59,990
Now, we're on page
6, and you say

700
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,360
"although the Navy provided--"
final paragraph on page 3--

701
00:31:03,410 --> 00:31:08,850
page 7, I would suggest
deleting "at the same time"

702
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:11,070
and starting "the
studios recognized

703
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,190
the value of Department
of Defense cooperation."

704
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,660
Now you're saying here--

705
00:31:15,710 --> 00:31:16,860
LAWRENCE SUID: Page 12?

706
00:31:16,910 --> 00:31:18,570
DON BARUCH: Page 12.

707
00:31:18,620 --> 00:31:20,640
ROGER STAHL: I had to
wonder, how deep was

708
00:31:20,690 --> 00:31:23,400
Suid's relationship with
the Pentagon Office?

709
00:31:23,450 --> 00:31:26,940
So I headed to New York to
Don Baruch's personal archive,

710
00:31:26,990 --> 00:31:31,350
kept at Baruch College founded
by his uncle, the financier.

711
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,450
In a box of Office
memorabilia, they

712
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:35,910
happened to have
Baruch's Rolodex.

713
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,130
Right alongside Clint
Eastwood and other Hollywood

714
00:31:38,180 --> 00:31:41,380
heavyweights, there
was Lawrence Suid.

715
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:43,450
Baruch also kept a Suid file.

716
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:46,270
In it, I found his letter
recommending the Guts and Glory

717
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,940
project for a
Guggenheim Fellowship.

718
00:31:48,990 --> 00:31:51,850
He even kept early drafts of
its chapters and clippings

719
00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:53,970
of its reviews.

720
00:31:54,020 --> 00:31:55,520
So there it was.

721
00:31:55,570 --> 00:31:57,560
For decades, the
Office had been trading

722
00:31:57,610 --> 00:31:59,810
access to influence not
just the big screen,

723
00:31:59,860 --> 00:32:02,640
but also its very own story.

724
00:32:02,690 --> 00:32:04,400
It was starting to
become clear why we had

725
00:32:04,450 --> 00:32:08,524
known so little for so long.

726
00:32:08,574 --> 00:32:11,470
[MUSIC PLAYING]

727
00:32:14,970 --> 00:32:17,740
If you really want to dive
into these script negotiations,

728
00:32:17,790 --> 00:32:19,660
a good place to start
is how these offices

729
00:32:19,710 --> 00:32:22,840
project the institution
itself on the screen.

730
00:32:22,890 --> 00:32:24,880
Take something obvious,
like recruiting, which

731
00:32:24,930 --> 00:32:27,047
runs deeper than you think.

732
00:32:27,097 --> 00:32:28,630
This kind of thing
has a long history.

733
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,850
But of course, Top Gun
took it to new heights.

734
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:35,955
They even set up recruiting
tables outside theaters.

735
00:32:36,005 --> 00:32:37,330
This function of
the film was not

736
00:32:37,380 --> 00:32:39,362
lost on Director Tony Scott.

737
00:32:39,412 --> 00:32:41,320
All these kids must
hate me, because they all

738
00:32:41,370 --> 00:32:44,230
signed on thinking they're going
to be fighter pilots pulling

739
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,520
broads all over the world.

740
00:32:45,570 --> 00:32:47,800
And they all ended
up in 11 stories down

741
00:32:47,850 --> 00:32:49,300
in some shitty old
aircraft carrier,

742
00:32:49,350 --> 00:32:51,760
stuck in the Indian Ocean.

743
00:32:51,810 --> 00:32:54,195
Hollywood, you're
looking good.

744
00:32:54,245 --> 00:32:55,570
ROGER STAHL: More
recently, there

745
00:32:55,620 --> 00:32:58,360
have been even bigger
leaps into this territory.

746
00:32:58,410 --> 00:33:01,240
Act of Valor literally started
life as a recruitment ad

747
00:33:01,290 --> 00:33:05,410
before the Navy decided it
would make a good feature film.

748
00:33:05,460 --> 00:33:08,110
Captain Marvel was also
a recruiting bonanza,

749
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,500
a vehicle for the Air
Force to reach young women.

750
00:33:11,550 --> 00:33:15,100
The Air Force was
welcoming and amazing.

751
00:33:15,150 --> 00:33:18,430
It was important for
Brie to go up in the F-16

752
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,800
and discover who
Carol Danvers is.

753
00:33:20,850 --> 00:33:21,820
Going to be fun.

754
00:33:21,870 --> 00:33:24,010
The core of her
is the Air Force.

755
00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:25,450
It's the spirit
of the Air Force.

756
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:27,970
But more than anything, it
was like the spirit of the Air

757
00:33:28,020 --> 00:33:32,110
Force and the spirit
of being a pilot.

758
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,960
ROGER STAHL: Even the
CIA is in on the game.

759
00:33:35,010 --> 00:33:38,770
Its involvement in the show
Alias went far beyond support.

760
00:33:38,820 --> 00:33:40,810
Jennifer Garner, who
played the main character,

761
00:33:40,860 --> 00:33:43,300
did a series of
recruitment pitches.

762
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:46,600
Right now, the CIA has
important exciting jobs

763
00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:47,456
for US citizens.

764
00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:55,400
ROGER STAHL: Then
there's The Recruit.

765
00:33:55,450 --> 00:33:57,680
You're kidding.

766
00:33:57,730 --> 00:34:02,300
Applications for
the CIA are up tenfold.

767
00:34:02,350 --> 00:34:05,170
Would I have to kill anyone?

768
00:34:05,220 --> 00:34:07,300
Would you like to?

769
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:09,490
ROGER STAHL: Not
too subtle, right?

770
00:34:09,540 --> 00:34:11,980
But you'd still never
guess how large of a role

771
00:34:12,030 --> 00:34:15,040
is played by Chase Brandon,
the longtime head of the CIA's

772
00:34:15,090 --> 00:34:16,044
Entertainment Office.

773
00:34:16,094 --> 00:34:17,919
TRICIA JENKINS: And
almost nobody knows this,

774
00:34:17,969 --> 00:34:21,550
but Chase Brandon wrote
the entire treatment

775
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,149
and like 80 pages of the
original draft of The Recruit.

776
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:28,060
And he is not listed
as a screenwriter

777
00:34:28,110 --> 00:34:29,800
at all in those credits.

778
00:34:29,850 --> 00:34:33,220
The only thing he is listed as
is a technical consultant.

779
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:37,620
You have all just stepped
through the looking glass.

780
00:34:37,670 --> 00:34:43,306
What you see, what you hear,
nothing is what it seems.

781
00:34:43,356 --> 00:34:46,222
[MUSIC PLAYING]

782
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:49,629
ROGER STAHL: Beyond the
recruiting pitch itself,

783
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,820
these institutions
are also keen to sweep

784
00:34:51,870 --> 00:34:54,939
persistent internal
problems under the rug.

785
00:34:54,989 --> 00:34:58,060
The Pentagon is very sensitive
about depicting mental health

786
00:34:58,110 --> 00:34:59,480
issues.

787
00:34:59,530 --> 00:35:01,330
For example, they
denied Home of the Brave

788
00:35:01,380 --> 00:35:04,420
due to the "vein of suicide,
domestic violence, chemical

789
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:06,170
abuse, and depression."

790
00:35:06,220 --> 00:35:08,860
They didn't like the image
of vets having a miserable

791
00:35:08,910 --> 00:35:11,590
time readjusting to life.

792
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:12,940
It was unfortunate.

793
00:35:12,990 --> 00:35:14,530
The Pentagon was
making it harder

794
00:35:14,580 --> 00:35:16,900
to produce this film
exactly when vets

795
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:19,540
needed the public
conversation the most.

796
00:35:19,590 --> 00:35:21,370
ANCHOR: Record high
military suicide.

797
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:23,500
SHEPARD SMITH: Military
suicides are on the rise.

798
00:35:23,550 --> 00:35:24,917
ROGER STAHL: Over
the next decade,

799
00:35:24,967 --> 00:35:27,400
way more military personnel
would die by suicide

800
00:35:27,450 --> 00:35:30,370
than combat.

801
00:35:30,420 --> 00:35:33,190
The Office has also worked
to downplay any impression

802
00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:37,000
that the military has struggled
with institutional racism.

803
00:35:37,050 --> 00:35:39,490
A good example of how they
typically approach the issue

804
00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:42,580
is the Laurence Fishburne
movie The Tuskegee Airmen.

805
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:44,350
It was based on the
real life experiences

806
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,130
of the first African-American
air squadron in World War II.

807
00:35:48,180 --> 00:35:50,740
How did the Office deal
with the story of racism

808
00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:52,210
in the military?

809
00:35:52,260 --> 00:35:55,240
By containing the racism
two a bad apple, of course,

810
00:35:55,290 --> 00:35:59,620
who then has to be dressed
down by his superior officer.

811
00:35:59,670 --> 00:36:01,060
This meant also
making sure there

812
00:36:01,110 --> 00:36:03,190
was no racism depicted
coming from the top

813
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:05,000
of the chain of command.

814
00:36:05,050 --> 00:36:07,630
They reversed characters to
make the Senator, rather than

815
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,910
the general, the
source of the bigotry.

816
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,230
I'm General Stevenson.

817
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,763
This is Senator Conyers.

818
00:36:13,813 --> 00:36:15,430
ROGER STAHL: So with
this new storyline,

819
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,222
what about the scene
in the original script

820
00:36:17,272 --> 00:36:19,960
where a baseball game breaks
out into racist taunts

821
00:36:20,010 --> 00:36:21,490
and a fistfight?

822
00:36:21,540 --> 00:36:24,160
It appears in this scene
that race was and remained

823
00:36:24,210 --> 00:36:26,980
a major factor to the
troops, which it did not,

824
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:29,260
the Office declared
quite confidently.

825
00:36:29,310 --> 00:36:32,920
So the fight is out of
place and has to go.

826
00:36:32,970 --> 00:36:34,810
Maybe the office
doesn't get the irony

827
00:36:34,860 --> 00:36:37,570
that its habit of covering
up institutional racism

828
00:36:37,620 --> 00:36:39,745
is institutional racism.

829
00:36:43,180 --> 00:36:44,960
Like racism, the
Entertainment Office

830
00:36:45,010 --> 00:36:46,460
has done its best
to make you forget

831
00:36:46,510 --> 00:36:48,740
all about sexual
harassment and assault

832
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:51,950
in the ranks, which includes a
pattern of leaders retaliating

833
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,650
against victims who complain.

834
00:36:54,700 --> 00:36:58,760
The problem first went public in
1991 with the Tailhook scandal.

835
00:36:58,810 --> 00:37:01,010
This is where hundreds
of Navy servicemen

836
00:37:01,060 --> 00:37:03,020
assaulted more than
80 servicewomen

837
00:37:03,070 --> 00:37:05,360
at a convention in Las Vegas.

838
00:37:05,410 --> 00:37:08,750
A congressional investigation
flagged a Top Gun mentality

839
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:09,681
as a major factor.

840
00:37:14,650 --> 00:37:16,190
The fallout from
Tailhook is what

841
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:19,340
delayed a sequel for so long.

842
00:37:19,390 --> 00:37:21,920
Since then, the Office has
treated sexual harassment

843
00:37:21,970 --> 00:37:26,090
and assault more like a PR
problem than an actual one.

844
00:37:26,140 --> 00:37:28,310
They denied GI Jane
because it dared

845
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,790
to depict a high officer
harassing with impunity.

846
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,860
And in more recent
years, they have actively

847
00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:36,080
endeavored to
whitewash the issue.

848
00:37:36,130 --> 00:37:38,780
They've enlisted their long
running partners, Army Wives

849
00:37:38,830 --> 00:37:42,000
and NCIS to run a
counter plot line.

850
00:37:42,050 --> 00:37:43,730
The problem in this
alternate universe

851
00:37:43,780 --> 00:37:45,890
is the victim, who
refuses to admit

852
00:37:45,940 --> 00:37:47,960
that an assault has occurred.

853
00:37:48,010 --> 00:37:50,810
The military leadership
is so eager for justice,

854
00:37:50,860 --> 00:37:53,930
though, that they launch
an investigation anyway.

855
00:37:53,980 --> 00:37:56,330
Zero tolerance is no
slogan around here, agents.

856
00:37:56,380 --> 00:37:57,560
It's a moral imperative.

857
00:37:57,610 --> 00:37:59,493
If that officer was
harmed on this ship,

858
00:37:59,543 --> 00:38:01,160
we'll move heaven and
Earth to help you.

859
00:38:01,210 --> 00:38:03,530
I only wish Farrell had
said something at the time.

860
00:38:03,580 --> 00:38:05,150
We could have done
something about it.

861
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,010
We're doing something now.

862
00:38:07,060 --> 00:38:10,288
ROGER STAHL: Given that the Navy
reviews every NCIS script, what

863
00:38:10,338 --> 00:38:12,080
would happen if the
producers were to drift

864
00:38:12,130 --> 00:38:14,270
from this official plot?

865
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,580
Well at one point, the
Navy received a script

866
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:19,280
that more closely resembled
what targets had repeatedly

867
00:38:19,330 --> 00:38:22,010
described, harassment
by numerous crew members

868
00:38:22,060 --> 00:38:24,140
and unresponsive leadership.

869
00:38:24,190 --> 00:38:26,870
The Entertainment Office
sounded the alarm.

870
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,550
A panicked conference
call and a day

871
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,060
later, the Navy had revised
the entire storyline.

872
00:38:32,110 --> 00:38:33,840
When the episode
eventually aired,

873
00:38:33,890 --> 00:38:36,590
it was a tale of sailor
bystanders stepping in,

874
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,250
and timely and effective
engagement by those in charge.

875
00:38:40,300 --> 00:38:43,610
A matter as sensitive as
this required immediate action.

876
00:38:43,660 --> 00:38:46,550
During our transit, I
ordered an investigation.

877
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,070
ROGER STAHL: Even wins over a
skeptical detective in the end

878
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,940
after she sees him go the extra
mile to nab the perpetrator.

879
00:38:52,990 --> 00:38:57,836
See, no institutionally
enabled rape culture here.

880
00:38:57,886 --> 00:39:01,280
[MUSIC PLAYING]

881
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,390
Another main job
of the Office is

882
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,360
to sell regular Americans
on pouring vast resources

883
00:39:10,410 --> 00:39:12,190
into these institutions.

884
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:14,560
All those weapons
can get expensive.

885
00:39:14,610 --> 00:39:17,830
Pushing them had always been a
staple of old style propaganda

886
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,870
films like The Big
Picture series.

887
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:20,920
NARRATOR: One example.

888
00:39:20,970 --> 00:39:23,650
The F-111, the
greatest innovation

889
00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:25,833
in aircraft design
of recent years.

890
00:39:25,883 --> 00:39:28,000
ROGER STAHL: But over time,
the Entertainment Office

891
00:39:28,050 --> 00:39:29,500
took over this function.

892
00:39:29,550 --> 00:39:32,380
The everyday workhorses became
those ubiquitous weapons

893
00:39:32,430 --> 00:39:34,990
documentaries on the Discovery,
History, and National

894
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,700
Geographic channels.

895
00:39:36,750 --> 00:39:38,440
This kind of boosterism
is especially

896
00:39:38,490 --> 00:39:40,900
important for systems
like the F-35, which

897
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:43,480
gained a trillion dollar
reputation as the most wasteful

898
00:39:43,530 --> 00:39:45,760
project in Pentagon history.

899
00:39:45,810 --> 00:39:49,180
The goal is normalizing
these huge expenditures.

900
00:39:49,230 --> 00:39:51,100
NARRATOR: To remain
a superpower,

901
00:39:51,150 --> 00:39:54,070
the US needs to constantly
update its technology

902
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,050
and military hardware.

903
00:39:56,100 --> 00:39:57,880
ROGER STAHL: It's
all over their notes.

904
00:39:57,930 --> 00:40:00,310
A primary reason for
assisting is the opportunity

905
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,350
to showcase these weapons.

906
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,630
Projects like these,
they say again and again,

907
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,390
support modernizing the force.

908
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,120
And this means that they're
able to show off how sexy,

909
00:40:10,170 --> 00:40:12,790
and how wonderful,
and how useful,

910
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,300
and how targeted their
new products are,

911
00:40:16,350 --> 00:40:17,800
which means that
the public is going

912
00:40:17,850 --> 00:40:22,510
to be less liable to criticize
the arms industry as something

913
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,560
that is messy,
unpleasant, dark, cruel.

914
00:40:29,335 --> 00:40:30,660
ROGER STAHL: Of
course, Hollywood

915
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:33,450
has played a lead role
in selling weapons, too.

916
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:36,030
They rewrote the Hulk
so he climbed on an F-22

917
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,070
and rode it into the sky.

918
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,430
They got the F-35 to
fly alongside Superman.

919
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,820
And got Ludacris to show
off the new Ripsaw vehicle.

920
00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:50,940
6.6 liter V8 DuroMax engine
with an M-153 CROWS remotely

921
00:40:50,990 --> 00:40:53,022
operated weapons station on top.

922
00:40:53,072 --> 00:40:54,480
See, the army's
developing machines

923
00:40:54,530 --> 00:40:56,650
like this the soldiers can
drive from a mile away.

924
00:40:56,700 --> 00:41:00,120
So they can stay safe and alive.

925
00:41:00,170 --> 00:41:02,350
ROGER STAHL: Or consider
the Transformers franchise,

926
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,010
which might as well have
been a military parade.

927
00:41:05,060 --> 00:41:07,020
The Air Force excitedly
listed everything

928
00:41:07,070 --> 00:41:10,470
to be filmed, the army too.

929
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:11,540
MICHAEL BAY: Action.

930
00:41:11,590 --> 00:41:14,330
What the Air Force has done
in this show has shown us

931
00:41:14,380 --> 00:41:18,140
all the good toys, brand new
stuff that really hasn't even

932
00:41:18,190 --> 00:41:20,600
been put into the field yet.

933
00:41:20,650 --> 00:41:22,400
MICHAEL BAY: I've always been
like some of the first

934
00:41:22,450 --> 00:41:23,990
to shoot military hardware.

935
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,640
In Armageddon, I was the
first to shoot the B-2 bomber.

936
00:41:26,690 --> 00:41:28,850
Then this movie was the F-22s.

937
00:41:28,900 --> 00:41:30,800
It's just very
fitting that Starscream

938
00:41:30,850 --> 00:41:32,090
was the air commander.

939
00:41:32,140 --> 00:41:34,640
And second in command
takes that form

940
00:41:34,690 --> 00:41:37,670
of literally the baddest weapon
system in the world right now.

941
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:42,690
ROGER STAHL: The
Iron Man franchise

942
00:41:42,740 --> 00:41:46,050
was an outright celebration
of the arms industry.

943
00:41:46,100 --> 00:41:48,850
It started out as
the exact opposite.

944
00:41:48,900 --> 00:41:50,490
The original script
for the first movie

945
00:41:50,540 --> 00:41:53,670
was all about Tony Stark going
to battle against the arms

946
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:56,130
manufacturers, including
his own father,

947
00:41:56,180 --> 00:41:57,930
who he says was
stealing his ideas

948
00:41:57,980 --> 00:42:01,590
and twisting them into
truly destructive weapons.

949
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,930
By the time the film went
into production with the DOD,

950
00:42:03,980 --> 00:42:06,240
however, the whole
thing was gone.

951
00:42:06,290 --> 00:42:08,893
Co-star Jeff Bridges told the
press they didn't have a script

952
00:42:08,943 --> 00:42:10,560
and were getting
regular notes from what

953
00:42:10,610 --> 00:42:12,990
he called the suits
at Marvel, who

954
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,162
were, of course, getting notes
from the brass at the Pentagon.

955
00:42:16,212 --> 00:42:19,020
ANNOUNCER: Today, Tony Stark has
changed the face of the weapons

956
00:42:19,070 --> 00:42:22,170
industry by ensuring
freedom and protecting

957
00:42:22,220 --> 00:42:25,868
America and her interests
around the globe.

958
00:42:25,918 --> 00:42:27,660
ROGER STAHL: When it
was all said and done,

959
00:42:27,710 --> 00:42:30,300
Stark had happily inherited
his father's business

960
00:42:30,350 --> 00:42:33,250
and become an emissary of the
military industrial complex

961
00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:33,751
himself.

962
00:42:36,670 --> 00:42:40,370
Flipping the storyline cleared
the runway for all of this.

963
00:42:40,420 --> 00:42:44,580
B-2 bombers, C-17s, and
F-22s, and F-35s, I mean,

964
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:47,090
you could literally pause
the screen and tally it up,

965
00:42:47,140 --> 00:42:49,340
and it would probably come
out to a billion and a half

966
00:42:49,390 --> 00:42:49,841
dollars.

967
00:42:56,190 --> 00:42:58,540
ROGER STAHL: On a broader
scale, the military and CIA

968
00:42:58,590 --> 00:43:00,280
also want to sell the
public on the image

969
00:43:00,330 --> 00:43:03,100
that they are the
ones who save the day.

970
00:43:03,150 --> 00:43:06,545
Take the alien invasion
film Independence Day.

971
00:43:06,595 --> 00:43:08,170
TRICIA JENKINS: Like, there are
some things that they

972
00:43:08,220 --> 00:43:10,837
objected to which had nothing
to do with historical accuracy.

973
00:43:10,887 --> 00:43:12,670
One of the things that
they were upset about

974
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:15,430
is the guy who
ultimately defeats

975
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,450
the aliens is a civilian
and is not a military hero.

976
00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:21,430
They wanted the
heroes of that film

977
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,725
to have military backgrounds.

978
00:43:24,775 --> 00:43:27,100
They also didn't like how the
aliens, even though they're

979
00:43:27,150 --> 00:43:29,200
supposed to have
advanced technology,

980
00:43:29,250 --> 00:43:33,300
were able to so thoroughly
decimate the American military.

981
00:43:33,350 --> 00:43:35,050
ROGER STAHL: The Office
listed the damage,

982
00:43:35,100 --> 00:43:40,390
which included 30 F-18s, one B-2
bomber, and one whole Pentagon.

983
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,250
Although they denied
the film in the end,

984
00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:45,910
director Roland Emmerich got
gun shy about that last one.

985
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,360
So we famously got the Empire
State Building, White House,

986
00:43:49,410 --> 00:43:52,480
and Capitol, but not this
ultimate showstopper.

987
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,760
Same thing with Rampage
where giant mutants attacked

988
00:43:57,810 --> 00:43:59,210
the city.

989
00:43:59,260 --> 00:44:01,480
The Pentagon rejected this
one after the filmmakers

990
00:44:01,530 --> 00:44:04,030
failed to incorporate
their script notes.

991
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,021
The problem?

992
00:44:05,071 --> 00:44:07,450
The mutants rampage
all over the military.

993
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,730
Sci-fi is one thing,
but the stakes

994
00:44:12,780 --> 00:44:14,710
go up when it comes
to revising the memory

995
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,480
of actual missions gone wrong.

996
00:44:17,530 --> 00:44:20,170
Take the 1993 battle
of Mogadishu, Somalia

997
00:44:20,220 --> 00:44:24,130
that eight years later became
the basis for Black Hawk Down.

998
00:44:24,180 --> 00:44:26,080
At the time, it was
universally regarded

999
00:44:26,130 --> 00:44:28,480
as a debacle, a
needless sacrifice

1000
00:44:28,530 --> 00:44:32,170
of 19 American troops, not to
mention the slaughter of 1,000

1001
00:44:32,220 --> 00:44:33,315
Somalis.

1002
00:44:33,365 --> 00:44:35,440
Today, I want to talk
with you about our nation's

1003
00:44:35,490 --> 00:44:37,130
military involvement in Somalia.

1004
00:44:37,180 --> 00:44:39,130
ROGER STAHL: Afterward,
the Entertainment Office

1005
00:44:39,180 --> 00:44:41,050
was on high alert
for anything that

1006
00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:42,970
looked like it in its scripts.

1007
00:44:43,020 --> 00:44:45,670
So for Clear and Present Danger,
they worried about a scene

1008
00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:49,450
where Colombian militias
overwhelmed US special forces.

1009
00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:52,540
"Rangers in Somalia just
went through a real world

1010
00:44:52,590 --> 00:44:55,810
fiasco that made the military
look ridiculous," they wrote.

1011
00:44:55,860 --> 00:44:58,510
"The DOD is not about to
cooperate on a movie that

1012
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,760
does the same thing."

1013
00:45:00,810 --> 00:45:02,530
In this case, they
made changes to ensure

1014
00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:05,020
the film would ultimately turn
out to be, in their words,

1015
00:45:05,070 --> 00:45:08,960
"more of a commercial for
us than damage control."

1016
00:45:09,010 --> 00:45:11,360
But with Black Hawk
Down, high level leaders

1017
00:45:11,410 --> 00:45:15,290
saw an opportunity to recast the
memory of Somalia altogether.

1018
00:45:15,340 --> 00:45:18,260
We got full cooperation
from the Defense Department

1019
00:45:18,310 --> 00:45:21,120
through two administrations,
William Cohen who

1020
00:45:21,170 --> 00:45:22,940
was the outgoing
Secretary of Defense

1021
00:45:22,990 --> 00:45:25,520
was a big fan of
the book and said

1022
00:45:25,570 --> 00:45:27,680
he would help us in any
way to get the movie made.

1023
00:45:27,730 --> 00:45:29,930
ROGER STAHL: All that essential
equipment gave the DOD

1024
00:45:29,980 --> 00:45:31,640
tremendous leverage.

1025
00:45:31,690 --> 00:45:33,140
Director Ridley
Scott said it would

1026
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:35,670
have been hard to make
the film without it.

1027
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:37,730
RIDLEY SCOTT: And so we
went right to the wire

1028
00:45:37,780 --> 00:45:40,340
in terms of negotiation
with the Pentagon

1029
00:45:40,390 --> 00:45:42,500
about their
requirements as to how

1030
00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:45,020
they wanted to be
perceived during the film.

1031
00:45:45,070 --> 00:45:47,640
But that negotiation
took a long time.

1032
00:45:47,690 --> 00:45:49,640
ROGER STAHL: First, the
Pentagon negotiated away

1033
00:45:49,690 --> 00:45:51,778
a few unheroic things.

1034
00:45:51,828 --> 00:45:53,570
MATTHEW ALFORD: The original book
was actually very good.

1035
00:45:53,620 --> 00:45:56,040
And there was loads of
things changed in that.

1036
00:45:56,090 --> 00:45:58,910
But the most obvious
thing was that one

1037
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,990
of the veterans who
came back from Somalia,

1038
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,595
he was convicted of
sexually assaulting a child.

1039
00:46:06,645 --> 00:46:07,970
ROGER STAHL: It
got out that they

1040
00:46:08,020 --> 00:46:11,780
had pressured the filmmakers
to change the character's name.

1041
00:46:11,830 --> 00:46:12,711
MICHAEL ALFORD: So they created--

1042
00:46:12,761 --> 00:46:15,350
the only composite character,
the only totally fictionalized

1043
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,150
character in that film,
was Ewan McGregor.

1044
00:46:19,740 --> 00:46:21,940
ROGER STAHL: With those
messy details out of the way,

1045
00:46:21,990 --> 00:46:24,520
all they had to do was focus
on the story of the rescue

1046
00:46:24,570 --> 00:46:27,010
and avoid any bigger questions.

1047
00:46:27,060 --> 00:46:29,920
ROBIN ANDERSEN: The filmmakers
grabbed victory out

1048
00:46:29,970 --> 00:46:33,130
of the jaws of defeat,
a symbolic victory,

1049
00:46:33,180 --> 00:46:35,300
where that film did just that.

1050
00:46:35,350 --> 00:46:39,440
The soldiers say, I don't
care about the politics.

1051
00:46:39,490 --> 00:46:43,750
I'm just in it to fight
next to the guy beside me.

1052
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,030
And we're not going to
leave anybody behind.

1053
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,800
You know what I think?

1054
00:46:49,850 --> 00:46:52,610
It don't really
matter what I think.

1055
00:46:52,660 --> 00:46:55,880
Once that first bullet goes
past your head, politics

1056
00:46:55,930 --> 00:46:59,640
and all that shit, just
goes right out the window.

1057
00:46:59,690 --> 00:47:02,320
OLIVER STONE: But Somalia
was a mess from beginning to end.

1058
00:47:02,370 --> 00:47:05,940
We had-- America had three or
four abortive missions there

1059
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:07,530
that had not worked before.

1060
00:47:07,580 --> 00:47:10,800
We'd set up a scenario
that was like this,

1061
00:47:10,850 --> 00:47:14,130
that the people started to
distrust us and hate us.

1062
00:47:14,180 --> 00:47:16,695
And then we covered it all
up with this nonsense movie.

1063
00:47:19,460 --> 00:47:23,040
It's a typical whitewash
of a military--

1064
00:47:23,090 --> 00:47:26,172
military corruption, typical.

1065
00:47:26,222 --> 00:47:27,630
ROGER STAHL: From
then on, the film

1066
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,940
became a model for
restoring public faith

1067
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:32,650
when overseas
interventions go wrong.

1068
00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:34,860
It turns out, you can
always rescue history

1069
00:47:34,910 --> 00:47:35,806
with a rescue story.

1070
00:47:39,540 --> 00:47:42,340
The CIA tried it too with Argo.

1071
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:44,920
The film is based on a rescue
that occurred during the Iran

1072
00:47:44,970 --> 00:47:47,890
hostage crisis, how the
CIA smuggled Americans

1073
00:47:47,940 --> 00:47:50,710
out by pretending to be
a Canadian sci-fi movie

1074
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,752
production company.

1075
00:47:52,802 --> 00:47:54,460
The Entertainment
Office had been pushing

1076
00:47:54,510 --> 00:47:56,770
this storyline for a while.

1077
00:47:56,820 --> 00:47:58,870
Five years earlier, the
Office had recommended it

1078
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:00,820
to Hollywood and TV
producers on what it

1079
00:48:00,870 --> 00:48:03,370
called it's Now Playing page.

1080
00:48:03,420 --> 00:48:06,850
Eventually, Ben Affleck picked
it up as director and star.

1081
00:48:06,900 --> 00:48:09,340
He was already in the
pipeline, as he had previously

1082
00:48:09,390 --> 00:48:13,810
starred in another CIA sponsored
film, The Sum of All Fears.

1083
00:48:13,860 --> 00:48:17,350
The CIA's exact role in Argo
had been something of a mystery,

1084
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:18,131
though.

1085
00:48:18,181 --> 00:48:20,800
They took eight years to
respond to Matt Alford's

1086
00:48:20,850 --> 00:48:22,720
Freedom of Information request.

1087
00:48:22,770 --> 00:48:24,790
And when we finally got
the internal emails,

1088
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,610
they didn't include
script negotiations.

1089
00:48:27,660 --> 00:48:31,060
We got a peek into how cozy
the relationship was, though.

1090
00:48:31,110 --> 00:48:33,490
The CIA knew it had a keeper.

1091
00:48:33,540 --> 00:48:36,190
"We are hoping to develop a
close working relationship

1092
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:39,250
with the filmmakers on
this project," they wrote.

1093
00:48:39,300 --> 00:48:41,380
After his first couple
of visits to Langley,

1094
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:45,640
Affleck was obviously keen to
stay in the CIA's good graces.

1095
00:48:45,690 --> 00:48:48,475
"We love the agency
and this heroic action.

1096
00:48:48,525 --> 00:48:50,350
And we really want the
process of bringing it

1097
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,650
to the big screen to be
as real as possible."

1098
00:48:53,700 --> 00:48:55,990
Over the course of this
gushing relationship,

1099
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,110
the CIA Public Affairs Office
reviewed multiple versions

1100
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:00,460
of the script.

1101
00:49:00,510 --> 00:49:04,900
"The Agency comes off looking
very well, they wrote."

1102
00:49:04,950 --> 00:49:07,540
The synergy couldn't
have been more perfect.

1103
00:49:07,590 --> 00:49:10,450
The CIA working with
Hollywood to tell a story

1104
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:14,410
about how the CIA worked with
Hollywood to save the day.

1105
00:49:14,460 --> 00:49:17,800
The irony was thick
with scenes like this.

1106
00:49:17,850 --> 00:49:19,660
The United States
government has just

1107
00:49:19,710 --> 00:49:23,300
sanctioned your
science fiction movie.

1108
00:49:23,350 --> 00:49:24,214
Thank you, sir.

1109
00:49:24,264 --> 00:49:25,880
ROGER STAHL: You could
say it turned out

1110
00:49:25,930 --> 00:49:28,340
pretty well for both parties.

1111
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:30,650
And the Oscar goes to--

1112
00:49:30,700 --> 00:49:32,900
ROGER STAHL: Hey, the First
Lady of the administration

1113
00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:34,640
that helped produce the movie.

1114
00:49:34,690 --> 00:49:35,883
Argo.

1115
00:49:35,933 --> 00:49:37,272
Congratulations.

1116
00:49:37,322 --> 00:49:39,238
[CHEERS]

1117
00:49:39,288 --> 00:49:41,030
ROGER STAHL: And hey,
it's Jennifer Garner,

1118
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,810
from that other CIA show, Alias.

1119
00:49:44,860 --> 00:49:46,730
Argo was on a whole
different level,

1120
00:49:46,780 --> 00:49:50,120
though, reframing history
for a new generation.

1121
00:49:50,170 --> 00:49:52,790
Some parts of the
story just got buried,

1122
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,100
like the fact that
it was the CIA that

1123
00:49:55,150 --> 00:49:57,980
led the coup that set the whole
crisis in motion, which they

1124
00:49:58,030 --> 00:50:00,620
finally acknowledged a year
later after the documents were

1125
00:50:00,670 --> 00:50:02,060
declassified.

1126
00:50:02,110 --> 00:50:05,000
That is the coup that toppled
Iran's democratically elected

1127
00:50:05,050 --> 00:50:05,998
prime minister.

1128
00:50:06,048 --> 00:50:07,580
ROGER STAHL: And the
fact that the CIA

1129
00:50:07,630 --> 00:50:10,070
failed to see the crisis coming.

1130
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,930
TRICIA JENKINS: Even by Tony
Mendez's own admission,

1131
00:50:12,980 --> 00:50:16,490
the Iranian hostage crisis
was an intelligence failure.

1132
00:50:16,540 --> 00:50:18,560
For those six people,
absolutely, the CIA

1133
00:50:18,610 --> 00:50:20,630
was their savior.

1134
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,150
Too bad for the other
hostages who remained

1135
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,120
in captivity for over a year.

1136
00:50:26,170 --> 00:50:28,100
ROGER STAHL: 52 of
them to be exact.

1137
00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:31,140
And they just kind of
fall out of the script.

1138
00:50:31,190 --> 00:50:34,160
TRICIA JENKINS: And so
the story is not on the failure.

1139
00:50:34,210 --> 00:50:35,550
It is on the success.

1140
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,960
And so Argo really becomes a
story of redemption for the CIA

1141
00:50:39,010 --> 00:50:42,740
in the face of one of its
biggest intelligence failures.

1142
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:45,584
ROGER STAHL: Another
rescue story in the bag.

1143
00:50:45,634 --> 00:50:47,240
Great work, boys.

1144
00:50:47,290 --> 00:50:48,710
BEN AFFLECK: Yeah, I think
probably Hollywood

1145
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,360
is full of CIA agents.

1146
00:50:50,410 --> 00:50:51,913
And we just don't know it.

1147
00:50:51,963 --> 00:50:53,330
And I wouldn't be
surprised at all

1148
00:50:53,380 --> 00:50:56,570
to discover that this
was extremely common.

1149
00:50:56,620 --> 00:51:00,033
ROGER STAHL: Yeah, I doubt
he would be surprised.

1150
00:51:00,083 --> 00:51:03,484
[MUSIC PLAYING]

1151
00:51:06,010 --> 00:51:07,610
I have to confess
that at one point,

1152
00:51:07,660 --> 00:51:10,340
I got pretty wrapped up
in one of these deals.

1153
00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:12,920
In 2017, the National
Geographic Channel

1154
00:51:12,970 --> 00:51:16,610
aired a popular miniseries
called The Long Road Home.

1155
00:51:16,660 --> 00:51:19,310
It was about a 2004
ambush of US soldiers

1156
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,740
outside Baghdad in Sadr City.

1157
00:51:21,790 --> 00:51:23,330
They called it Black Sunday.

1158
00:51:23,380 --> 00:51:26,030
And it put the first big
crack in the US public's faith

1159
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:27,650
in the occupation.

1160
00:51:27,700 --> 00:51:29,900
Eventually, ABC
correspondent Martha Raddatz

1161
00:51:29,950 --> 00:51:31,220
wrote a bestseller about it.

1162
00:51:31,270 --> 00:51:33,620
And it was optioned
for a series.

1163
00:51:33,670 --> 00:51:35,720
The army was all
over it, opening up

1164
00:51:35,770 --> 00:51:39,202
Fort Hood, Texas for shooting
virtually the entire thing.

1165
00:51:39,252 --> 00:51:40,910
In particular, they
allowed the producers

1166
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,890
to renovate an urban
combat training

1167
00:51:42,940 --> 00:51:45,710
site to look like Sadr City.

1168
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,230
This is more than
three football fields long.

1169
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,140
It is the largest set working
in North America today.

1170
00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:53,610
Thank you everybody,
positions please.

1171
00:51:53,660 --> 00:51:55,610
ROGER STAHL: There you
have it, the largest film

1172
00:51:55,660 --> 00:51:59,370
set on the largest
military base.

1173
00:51:59,420 --> 00:52:01,400
The promos mentioned the
military's involvement.

1174
00:52:01,450 --> 00:52:04,580
So naturally, there was a
lot of talk about accuracy.

1175
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:08,690
It's been amazing having
the Army as our advisor,

1176
00:52:08,740 --> 00:52:12,170
because I always wanted this
to be as authentic as possible.

1177
00:52:12,220 --> 00:52:14,450
National Geographic is
famous for telling the truth.

1178
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:17,240
I love that they're making
honest, real, hard hitting

1179
00:52:17,290 --> 00:52:19,100
television.

1180
00:52:19,150 --> 00:52:20,720
ROGER STAHL: I
wondered how honest.

1181
00:52:20,770 --> 00:52:22,790
So I contacted a
couple of vets who had

1182
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,170
been wounded in the firefight.

1183
00:52:25,220 --> 00:52:27,440
I had the idea to rendezvous
with them at the base

1184
00:52:27,490 --> 00:52:29,135
and maybe tour the site.

1185
00:52:29,185 --> 00:52:31,760
I thought the army might jump at
the chance to show some Purple

1186
00:52:31,810 --> 00:52:33,530
Heart heroes around.

1187
00:52:33,580 --> 00:52:35,930
After all, they had trained
at that very facility

1188
00:52:35,980 --> 00:52:37,200
before shipping out.

1189
00:52:37,250 --> 00:52:39,710
And this was their story.

1190
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,110
No dice.

1191
00:52:41,170 --> 00:52:43,100
I guess the first
question I have is,

1192
00:52:43,150 --> 00:52:46,370
one, have you talked to
the Chief of Public Affairs

1193
00:52:46,420 --> 00:52:48,560
folks out in Los Angeles?

1194
00:52:48,610 --> 00:52:51,290
That needs to be the first
stop before we can allow you

1195
00:52:51,340 --> 00:52:52,670
guys to come in and film.

1196
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:56,750
Essentially there has to be a
production assistance agreement

1197
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,978
between yourself and the Army.

1198
00:53:00,028 --> 00:53:01,520
ROGER STAHL: If
you're curious, yeah,

1199
00:53:01,570 --> 00:53:04,335
I did send them
a formal request.

1200
00:53:04,385 --> 00:53:05,960
Do you think I should
tell them there's

1201
00:53:06,010 --> 00:53:08,240
a part in the movie where
I talk about them changing

1202
00:53:08,290 --> 00:53:12,140
the parts of movies
they don't like?

1203
00:53:12,190 --> 00:53:14,810
I just think they're going
to want to change that part.

1204
00:53:14,860 --> 00:53:17,210
(LAUGHS)

1205
00:53:17,260 --> 00:53:18,900
ROGER STAHL: Well,
I eventually did tell them.

1206
00:53:18,950 --> 00:53:21,960
And they stopped
writing me back.

1207
00:53:22,010 --> 00:53:23,720
In the meantime, the
vets and I could only

1208
00:53:23,770 --> 00:53:26,420
meet in Killeen, Texas,
just outside of the base,

1209
00:53:26,470 --> 00:53:30,390
hang out in a modest motel,
and watch the show together.

1210
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,540
I wondered whether they'd
recognize themselves

1211
00:53:32,590 --> 00:53:34,970
and what they went through.

1212
00:53:35,020 --> 00:53:36,720
It was traumatic.

1213
00:53:36,770 --> 00:53:39,740
It hurt to see this.

1214
00:53:39,790 --> 00:53:41,720
No, it wasn't that.

1215
00:53:41,770 --> 00:53:45,800
It didn't inspire any
flashbacks or anything.

1216
00:53:45,850 --> 00:53:47,986
No, it should have.

1217
00:53:48,036 --> 00:53:54,360
(LAUGHS) Had it
been done properly,

1218
00:53:54,410 --> 00:53:57,060
maybe I would have
gobbled it up and had

1219
00:53:57,110 --> 00:54:00,240
different feelings about
it, also intense feelings,

1220
00:54:00,290 --> 00:54:03,010
but not anger.

1221
00:54:03,060 --> 00:54:06,720
Yeah, I felt like a liar,
because the story that I

1222
00:54:06,770 --> 00:54:09,882
have been telling my family was
not what was shown on the show.

1223
00:54:09,932 --> 00:54:11,340
ROGER STAHL: For
starters, the guys

1224
00:54:11,390 --> 00:54:13,632
mentioned that the show wasn't
too kind to their friend

1225
00:54:13,682 --> 00:54:17,460
and fellow GI Tomas Young in
the episode devoted to him.

1226
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:19,710
This was significant,
because his story was that

1227
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,870
of the early peace movement.

1228
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:23,670
Paralyzed by a
bullet, he went on

1229
00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:26,100
to become one of the most
visible war protesters,

1230
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:30,060
alongside Cindy Sheehan, whose
son died in the same ambush.

1231
00:54:30,110 --> 00:54:31,770
Young's own death
became a symbol

1232
00:54:31,820 --> 00:54:35,280
of the anguish and
betrayal felt by many vets.

1233
00:54:35,330 --> 00:54:36,780
REPORTER: Unable
to swallow pills,

1234
00:54:36,830 --> 00:54:40,350
unable to pull a trigger,
unwilling to implicate anyone

1235
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:46,410
else, Thomas plans to
starve himself to death.

1236
00:54:46,460 --> 00:54:50,220
ANCHOR: Wounded April Fourth,
2004, his fifth day in Iraq,

1237
00:54:50,270 --> 00:54:53,610
shot in Sadr City,
is now writing

1238
00:54:53,660 --> 00:54:55,680
a letter on this
10th anniversary

1239
00:54:55,730 --> 00:54:58,830
called the last letter, a
message to George W Bush.

1240
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,530
TOMAS YOUNG: You are
each guilty of egregious war

1241
00:55:01,580 --> 00:55:06,820
crimes, of plunder,
and finally, of murder,

1242
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:10,110
including the murder of
thousands of young Americans,

1243
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:13,665
my fellow veterans,
whose future you stole.

1244
00:55:16,860 --> 00:55:19,030
STAHL (to vet): Yeah, how
did they depict Young?

1245
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:20,260
As a pussy.

1246
00:55:20,310 --> 00:55:21,310
And he wasn't.

1247
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:22,720
He was cool.

1248
00:55:22,770 --> 00:55:28,310
He was well read and a cool guy.

1249
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:29,960
Yeah.

1250
00:55:30,010 --> 00:55:35,063
I think they depicted
him as a douche bag.

1251
00:55:35,113 --> 00:55:36,230
What do you know about it?

1252
00:55:40,730 --> 00:55:43,305
War?

1253
00:55:43,355 --> 00:55:46,918
You ever even been shot at?

1254
00:55:46,968 --> 00:55:48,460
Well, then do me a
favor and shut up.

1255
00:55:51,503 --> 00:55:53,120
ROGER STAHL: The show
carefully controls

1256
00:55:53,170 --> 00:55:56,150
Young's image, especially
his anti-war activities.

1257
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:57,071
We see him protesting.

1258
00:55:57,121 --> 00:55:58,820
But you come away with
the sense that he's

1259
00:55:58,870 --> 00:56:01,310
just bitter about
having been wounded.

1260
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,130
We never get to hear
any of his speeches.

1261
00:56:04,180 --> 00:56:05,690
According to the
documents, the Army

1262
00:56:05,740 --> 00:56:09,260
even vetted each of the
protest signs' slogans.

1263
00:56:09,310 --> 00:56:14,100
And of course, they completely
avoid mentioning his suicide.

1264
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:15,330
But there's more.

1265
00:56:15,380 --> 00:56:17,970
The show also went to work
correcting any impression

1266
00:56:18,020 --> 00:56:20,910
that Black Sunday was
a strategic blunder.

1267
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:22,680
This was curious,
because in the book,

1268
00:56:22,730 --> 00:56:25,470
it's clear that command failed
to anticipate the uprising

1269
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,510
and may have provoked it.

1270
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,570
They also failed to anticipate
the need for armored equipment.

1271
00:56:30,620 --> 00:56:33,000
Scores of soldiers had to
head into the firefight

1272
00:56:33,050 --> 00:56:36,900
in unarmored Humvees and fish
in a barrel supply trucks.

1273
00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:39,570
But the show lets the man in
charge, Battalion Commander

1274
00:56:39,620 --> 00:56:42,000
Gary Volesky,
entirely off the hook

1275
00:56:42,050 --> 00:56:44,010
and even makes him the hero.

1276
00:56:44,060 --> 00:56:46,350
The series puts him where
he wasn't, in a Humvee

1277
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,320
at the vulnerable front
of the rescue convoy.

1278
00:56:49,370 --> 00:56:50,910
This was a spot
that, in reality,

1279
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:52,680
had been occupied
by Captain George

1280
00:56:52,730 --> 00:56:54,810
Lewis, a big part of the book.

1281
00:56:54,860 --> 00:56:58,290
Lewis disappears from
the story entirely.

1282
00:56:58,340 --> 00:57:00,980
How are we supposed to turn?

1283
00:57:01,030 --> 00:57:04,640
DUNCAN KOEBRICH: I wrote
to one of my buddies about it.

1284
00:57:04,690 --> 00:57:09,230
I said, I think they're going to
put Colonel Volesky in Captain

1285
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:10,550
Lewis's spot.

1286
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,130
And he said, that would
be a serious deviation

1287
00:57:13,180 --> 00:57:14,360
from the book.

1288
00:57:14,410 --> 00:57:18,110
And then the next episode
aired, and sure enough, he

1289
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:23,090
gives a speech in a motor pool
and climbs in and leads us

1290
00:57:23,140 --> 00:57:26,930
from the front,
which he did not.

1291
00:57:29,908 --> 00:57:31,650
ROGER STAHL: Turns out,
Volesky's character

1292
00:57:31,700 --> 00:57:34,800
does a lot of valorous
things up there.

1293
00:57:34,850 --> 00:57:40,680
DUNCAN KOEBRICH: I don't know
how involved General Volesky was--

1294
00:57:40,730 --> 00:57:44,160
this is part of why I want
to hear his thoughts on being

1295
00:57:44,210 --> 00:57:51,680
depicted, imbued with the
valor of Captain Lewis.

1296
00:57:51,730 --> 00:57:54,080
ROGER STAHL: It was a
question on my mind, too.

1297
00:57:54,130 --> 00:57:56,690
It seemed likely that he'd
played some role in the show's

1298
00:57:56,740 --> 00:57:57,710
development.

1299
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:01,130
There he is on set, telling
everyone to break a leg.

1300
00:58:01,180 --> 00:58:04,280
And it just so happens that he
served as Chief of Army Public

1301
00:58:04,330 --> 00:58:07,460
Affairs during a critical
period between the first script

1302
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:11,180
reviews and the
show's broadcast.

1303
00:58:11,230 --> 00:58:13,520
There was one more
thing gnawing at me.

1304
00:58:13,570 --> 00:58:16,430
Remember Captain Lewis, whom
Volesky replaced in the show

1305
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:18,872
at the front of
the rescue convoy?

1306
00:58:18,922 --> 00:58:20,330
The guys mentioned
that Volesky had

1307
00:58:20,380 --> 00:58:22,790
made him the primary
scapegoat after the ambush

1308
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,920
and relieved him of duty.

1309
00:58:24,970 --> 00:58:27,320
When he looked at it as
a bad thing in the army,

1310
00:58:27,370 --> 00:58:29,180
he lost his job for it.

1311
00:58:29,230 --> 00:58:31,790
But now, to show
civilians of it,

1312
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:36,037
now something heroic,
something good.

1313
00:58:36,087 --> 00:58:38,120
ROGER STAHL: I had to track
Lewis down and ask him

1314
00:58:38,170 --> 00:58:39,440
about all this.

1315
00:58:39,490 --> 00:58:41,330
He was working for
the Army as a civilian

1316
00:58:41,380 --> 00:58:43,190
at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.

1317
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:45,020
He confirmed that
Volesky had indeed

1318
00:58:45,070 --> 00:58:46,850
removed him from his post.

1319
00:58:46,900 --> 00:58:48,440
But what did he
think about Volesky

1320
00:58:48,490 --> 00:58:52,340
taking his place in
the convoy on the show?

1321
00:58:52,390 --> 00:58:55,287
Yeah, I don't know
why they did that.

1322
00:58:55,337 --> 00:58:57,620
It doesn't make much sense
to have a battalion commander

1323
00:58:57,670 --> 00:59:00,398
leading a convoy of a company.

1324
00:59:00,448 --> 00:59:01,940
I mean, that's a
pretty simple thing.

1325
00:59:01,990 --> 00:59:04,142
I think most people who
have any military experience

1326
00:59:04,192 --> 00:59:05,600
would say, wait a
sec, that doesn't

1327
00:59:05,650 --> 00:59:07,690
make a whole lot of sense.

1328
00:59:07,740 --> 00:59:09,960
ROGER STAHL: And what would
he want to say to Volesky?

1329
00:59:10,010 --> 00:59:11,930
Yeah, I'm just
wondering how it happened

1330
00:59:11,980 --> 00:59:15,980
and whether he had any
knowledge or involvement in it.

1331
00:59:16,030 --> 00:59:17,240
And I hope he didn't.

1332
00:59:20,340 --> 00:59:25,065
I mean, because if he did,
I mean it'd completely trash

1333
00:59:25,115 --> 00:59:26,640
any respect I had for him.

1334
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:36,460
TRAVIS WALKER: I don't think the
blunder came with Captain Lewis--

1335
00:59:36,510 --> 00:59:40,130
was one who took the brunt of
it, who got relieved of duty.

1336
00:59:40,180 --> 00:59:44,240
I think the blunder came from
way up top, because I mean,

1337
00:59:44,290 --> 00:59:47,741
we didn't have armored vehicles.

1338
00:59:47,791 --> 00:59:50,330
Some guys had armor
that didn't fit.

1339
00:59:50,380 --> 00:59:53,630
Some guys-- it
was just a total--

1340
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:55,130
DUNCAN KOEBRICH:
Mechanized infantry

1341
00:59:55,180 --> 00:59:56,420
against a supply truck.

1342
00:59:56,470 --> 01:00:00,530
We didn't do anything
that we trained for.

1343
01:00:00,580 --> 01:00:01,580
DUNCAN KOEBRICH: Yeah.

1344
01:00:01,630 --> 01:00:03,950
ROGER STAHL: That's not
the story we got, though.

1345
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,050
We didn't see those
in charge needlessly

1346
01:00:06,100 --> 01:00:08,060
sacrificing the lives
of these soldiers

1347
01:00:08,110 --> 01:00:11,360
or Young's fight to make
sure it doesn't happen again.

1348
01:00:11,410 --> 01:00:15,440
It was a story of a good war
and a misguided peace movement.

1349
01:00:15,490 --> 01:00:17,900
It was a story of enemies
who come out of nowhere

1350
01:00:17,950 --> 01:00:20,720
and a battalion commander who
puts his own life on the line

1351
01:00:20,770 --> 01:00:22,940
to get his guys back.

1352
01:00:22,990 --> 01:00:25,970
That's how Black Sunday goes
from a black eye to something

1353
01:00:26,020 --> 01:00:29,195
more like Black Hawk Down.

1354
01:00:29,245 --> 01:00:31,820
DUNCAN KOEBRICH: I have to
wonder, OK, why are they

1355
01:00:31,870 --> 01:00:32,940
doing this?

1356
01:00:32,990 --> 01:00:35,330
Why are they
depicting these scenes

1357
01:00:35,380 --> 01:00:40,120
that contradict what happened?

1358
01:00:40,170 --> 01:00:42,760
I don't think that's
creative license.

1359
01:00:42,810 --> 01:00:46,399
I think that's a cover-up.

1360
01:00:46,449 --> 01:00:49,850
[MUSIC PLAYING]

1361
01:00:52,293 --> 01:00:53,910
ROGER STAHL: There's
still one big issue

1362
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:55,380
that we haven't touched.

1363
01:00:55,430 --> 01:00:58,290
What about certain unsavory
historical realities

1364
01:00:58,340 --> 01:01:01,770
that the CIA and Pentagon would
rather keep tucked away?

1365
01:01:01,820 --> 01:01:03,387
Consider war crimes.

1366
01:01:03,437 --> 01:01:05,220
In short, they want you
to know that there's

1367
01:01:05,270 --> 01:01:07,330
nothing to see here.

1368
01:01:07,380 --> 01:01:09,600
For example, the
CIA has always been

1369
01:01:09,650 --> 01:01:12,240
sensitive about its
associations with torture.

1370
01:01:12,290 --> 01:01:15,420
For a long time, it was
the number one showstopper,

1371
01:01:15,470 --> 01:01:16,406
no joke.

1372
01:01:16,456 --> 01:01:18,030
MATTHEW ALFORD: So
in Meet the Parents,

1373
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:22,800
for example, Ben Stiller walks
into Robert De Niro's office--

1374
01:01:22,850 --> 01:01:25,500
Robert De Niro is
the CIA character.

1375
01:01:25,550 --> 01:01:29,550
And in the original
script, he is

1376
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:33,720
meant to see CIA torture
manuals on the desk

1377
01:01:33,770 --> 01:01:35,925
all around, as a way of--

1378
01:01:35,975 --> 01:01:37,000
as part of the script.

1379
01:01:37,050 --> 01:01:39,330
It's a way of making
Robert De Niro's character

1380
01:01:39,380 --> 01:01:42,120
look frightening.

1381
01:01:42,170 --> 01:01:44,175
However, the CIA itself
did not like this.

1382
01:01:44,225 --> 01:01:46,050
And because they were
consulting on the film,

1383
01:01:46,100 --> 01:01:47,580
they asked for it to be changed.

1384
01:01:47,630 --> 01:01:50,370
And so that's why
when Ben Stiller goes

1385
01:01:50,420 --> 01:01:54,870
into that office in
the finished film,

1386
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:59,700
it's just pictures of Robert
De Niro meeting famous people

1387
01:01:59,750 --> 01:02:00,960
like President Clinton.

1388
01:02:03,620 --> 01:02:06,172
It's watered down, basically.

1389
01:02:06,222 --> 01:02:07,880
Looking for something, Greg?

1390
01:02:07,930 --> 01:02:09,240
Oh.

1391
01:02:09,290 --> 01:02:11,670
ROGER STAHL: Things
changed after 9/11, though.

1392
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:13,920
The CIA teamed up
with shows like 24,

1393
01:02:13,970 --> 01:02:17,880
which did depict
torture, lots of it,

1394
01:02:17,930 --> 01:02:21,930
but as a justified and effective
measure to keep America safe.

1395
01:02:21,980 --> 01:02:24,600
You got information,
Paul, I need it now.

1396
01:02:24,650 --> 01:02:26,850
ROGER STAHL: By the time
Zero Dark Thirty arrived,

1397
01:02:26,900 --> 01:02:30,630
the CIA's use of torture was
an established controversy.

1398
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:32,610
The red flags went up
when it went public

1399
01:02:32,660 --> 01:02:35,730
that the Obama administration
was involved in the film.

1400
01:02:35,780 --> 01:02:38,730
NEWS ANCHOR: What has some
on Capitol Hill so angry?

1401
01:02:38,780 --> 01:02:40,980
You believe, when
watching this movie,

1402
01:02:41,030 --> 01:02:44,160
that waterboarding
and torture leads

1403
01:02:44,210 --> 01:02:48,670
to information that leads then
to the elimination of Osama bin

1404
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:49,171
Laden.

1405
01:02:49,221 --> 01:02:51,288
That's not the case.

1406
01:02:51,338 --> 01:02:53,580
ROGER STAHL: What we do know
is that behind the scenes,

1407
01:02:53,630 --> 01:02:55,590
the CIA was busy
leveraging the film

1408
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:59,660
not only to justify US torture,
but to soften its image.

1409
01:02:59,710 --> 01:03:01,410
The agency demanded
that the screenwriters

1410
01:03:01,460 --> 01:03:04,950
remove the torture dogs, despite
the fact that the CIA did

1411
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,320
use dogs routinely.

1412
01:03:07,370 --> 01:03:09,150
And they politely
asked that the script

1413
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,270
keep to those torture techniques
already in the public domain.

1414
01:03:15,050 --> 01:03:16,800
The Pentagon has
also done its best

1415
01:03:16,850 --> 01:03:19,650
to suppress any
suggestion of war crimes.

1416
01:03:19,700 --> 01:03:21,990
For example, in the original
script for the World War II

1417
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:23,940
movie Windtalkers,
there was a character

1418
01:03:23,990 --> 01:03:26,910
called The Dentist who pulls
gold teeth from the mouths

1419
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:28,920
of dead Japanese soldiers.

1420
01:03:28,970 --> 01:03:31,860
The Marine entertainment
officer wanted it gone.

1421
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:35,220
"The dentist character displays
distinctly un-Marine behavior,"

1422
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:36,770
he wrote.

1423
01:03:36,820 --> 01:03:39,020
But it's no secret that
this kind of racism

1424
01:03:39,070 --> 01:03:42,350
fueled trophy taking was
commonplace in the Pacific.

1425
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,240
Eugene Sledge
describes the practice

1426
01:03:44,290 --> 01:03:47,420
as widespread in his famous
memoir, which is required

1427
01:03:47,470 --> 01:03:50,060
reading for Marine officers.

1428
01:03:50,110 --> 01:03:52,340
Gold teeth were the
least of it, too.

1429
01:03:52,390 --> 01:03:55,340
Soldiers raided bodies
for bones and ears.

1430
01:03:55,390 --> 01:03:56,960
They developed
techniques for boiling

1431
01:03:57,010 --> 01:03:59,270
of flesh off of severed heads.

1432
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,760
These grim souvenirs
flooded the home front,

1433
01:04:01,810 --> 01:04:05,280
even showing up
in Life Magazine.

1434
01:04:05,330 --> 01:04:07,030
But the Marine Office
didn't want the film

1435
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:08,680
to bring any of that up.

1436
01:04:08,730 --> 01:04:10,990
Phil Strub at the
Pentagon concurred.

1437
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,650
"Stealing gold teeth,
yep, has to go."

1438
01:04:14,700 --> 01:04:15,491
So it went.

1439
01:04:18,510 --> 01:04:21,463
Lone Survivor got
the treatment, too.

1440
01:04:21,513 --> 01:04:23,630
There's the pivotal scene
where the platoon captures

1441
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:25,600
some Afghani goat
herders and tries

1442
01:04:25,650 --> 01:04:28,210
to decide what to do with them.

1443
01:04:28,260 --> 01:04:30,460
According to Marcus
Luttrell's firsthand account,

1444
01:04:30,510 --> 01:04:32,230
the commanding officer
argued that they

1445
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,900
should kill them
quietly, hide the bodies,

1446
01:04:34,950 --> 01:04:37,180
and keep a pact of silence.

1447
01:04:37,230 --> 01:04:39,070
He eventually put it
to a vote, though.

1448
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,220
And in a split decision,
the group let them go.

1449
01:04:42,270 --> 01:04:45,190
The Pentagon didn't like this
image of military leaders

1450
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,470
advocating war crimes
and had a long discussion

1451
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:49,030
about changing it.

1452
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,400
In the final version, it's
the commanding officer

1453
01:04:51,450 --> 01:04:55,540
who unequivocally orders the
group to let the captives go.

1454
01:04:55,590 --> 01:04:58,990
This is not a vote.

1455
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:00,880
This is what we're going to do.

1456
01:05:00,930 --> 01:05:02,260
ROGER STAHL: How
would the Office

1457
01:05:02,310 --> 01:05:04,360
justify twisting
the story like this

1458
01:05:04,410 --> 01:05:06,880
if you were to, say,
put them on the spot?

1459
01:05:06,930 --> 01:05:10,630
Well, as luck would have
it, I had the chance to ask.

1460
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:12,370
The Navy held a
webinar about how

1461
01:05:12,420 --> 01:05:14,590
it works with Hollywood,
a sort of advertisement

1462
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,150
for its services.

1463
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,880
Dennis Moynihan was the
chief information officer

1464
01:05:18,930 --> 01:05:21,190
while Lone Survivor
was in production.

1465
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,260
He'd been talking about
how authentic they

1466
01:05:23,310 --> 01:05:25,030
were able to make it.

1467
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:27,370
I couldn't believe the
moderator picked up my question.

1468
01:05:27,420 --> 01:05:31,000
But being a military ethics
professor, he took an interest.

1469
01:05:31,050 --> 01:05:32,560
Trigger warning,
there's going to be

1470
01:05:32,610 --> 01:05:34,720
a fair amount of squirming.

1471
01:05:34,770 --> 01:05:35,651
I have one more.

1472
01:05:35,701 --> 01:05:38,800
This is an interesting one, too.

1473
01:05:38,850 --> 01:05:42,580
And this is a question
for you, Admiral Moynihan.

1474
01:05:42,630 --> 01:05:44,890
"How does the military
deal--" and this

1475
01:05:44,940 --> 01:05:48,460
is Roger Stahl, by the way,
providing this question.

1476
01:05:48,510 --> 01:05:53,390
"How does the military deal with
the suggestion of war crimes?

1477
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:55,690
I'm thinking about
Marcus Luttrell's book,

1478
01:05:55,740 --> 01:05:59,410
where the CO suggests they
kill the captured goat herders.

1479
01:05:59,460 --> 01:06:03,110
This suggestion goes
missing from the film.

1480
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:06,310
This change seems
like it compromises

1481
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:08,257
the principle of authenticity."

1482
01:06:08,307 --> 01:06:09,340
What do you think of that?

1483
01:06:17,030 --> 01:06:21,360
Look, it gets to,
again, a lot of the things

1484
01:06:21,410 --> 01:06:22,530
that we talked about.

1485
01:06:22,580 --> 01:06:25,590
Does it reflect well
on the military?

1486
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:27,300
Can it be used for recruiting?

1487
01:06:27,350 --> 01:06:30,960
And can people like David,
and in this case, Peter, still

1488
01:06:31,010 --> 01:06:33,100
tell a credible story.

1489
01:06:33,150 --> 01:06:38,520
So is everything that ever
happened in that situation

1490
01:06:38,570 --> 01:06:40,380
reported on
included in the movie?

1491
01:06:40,430 --> 01:06:43,110
No, it's not.

1492
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:44,850
But I think that's OK.

1493
01:06:44,900 --> 01:06:49,890
Because in the end, you
got a very credible product

1494
01:06:49,940 --> 01:06:52,230
that certainly, the service,
I think was proud of,

1495
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:54,790
and I think that Peter
was proud of as well.

1496
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:57,270
So every detail,
absolutely not, for all the

1497
01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:00,180
reasons that we
talked about before.

1498
01:07:00,230 --> 01:07:03,390
But I don't have a
problem with that.

1499
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:04,680
OK, good.

1500
01:07:04,730 --> 01:07:06,120
And I have a question for the--

1501
01:07:06,170 --> 01:07:09,080
ROGER STAHL: Yeah, of
course, not every detail.

1502
01:07:11,690 --> 01:07:13,515
What about
crimes of aggression,

1503
01:07:13,565 --> 01:07:15,755
like overthrowing
foreign governments?

1504
01:07:15,805 --> 01:07:17,880
Well, in recent years, you
see a pattern of support

1505
01:07:17,930 --> 01:07:21,120
that normalizes these
kinds of interventions.

1506
01:07:21,170 --> 01:07:24,370
Of course, you have Iron Man
running ops in Afghanistan.

1507
01:07:24,420 --> 01:07:26,970
But you also have
The Suicide Squad.

1508
01:07:27,020 --> 01:07:30,450
Here, the US military sends in
a team of B-list superheroes

1509
01:07:30,500 --> 01:07:33,610
to overthrow a fictional
Latin American government.

1510
01:07:33,660 --> 01:07:36,510
So a long history of
illegal US military action

1511
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:39,810
in Central and South America
ends up as not much more

1512
01:07:39,860 --> 01:07:40,890
than a punch line.

1513
01:07:44,460 --> 01:07:48,040
Or take Jack Ryan, the most
popular series on Amazon Prime

1514
01:07:48,090 --> 01:07:49,400
to date.

1515
01:07:49,450 --> 01:07:52,480
Season two got off with a
bang by demonizing Venezuela,

1516
01:07:52,530 --> 01:07:55,155
a longtime US foreign
policy target.

1517
01:07:55,205 --> 01:07:57,280
Your concern is that
the Russians are secretly

1518
01:07:57,330 --> 01:07:58,803
selling weapons to Venezuela?

1519
01:07:58,853 --> 01:07:59,845
It would fit a pattern.

1520
01:07:59,895 --> 01:08:01,512
[MUSIC - "FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH"]

1521
01:08:01,562 --> 01:08:04,280
SINGING: It's time we stop,
hey, what's that sound?

1522
01:08:04,330 --> 01:08:07,010
This ends up in the news,
it's just going to cause panic.

1523
01:08:07,060 --> 01:08:08,600
A nuclear Venezuela
you will not

1524
01:08:08,650 --> 01:08:11,390
hear about in the news,
because we'll already be dead.

1525
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:13,370
ROGER STAHL: The central
plot is the CIA trying

1526
01:08:13,420 --> 01:08:14,830
to tip a Venezuelan election.

1527
01:08:15,130 --> 01:08:17,359
SINGING: There's
something happening here.

1528
01:08:18,950 --> 01:08:20,849
ROGER STAHL: The agency
seeks to topple a dictator

1529
01:08:20,899 --> 01:08:23,099
and put a liberal,
populist, human rights

1530
01:08:23,149 --> 01:08:24,639
candidate into power.

1531
01:08:28,131 --> 01:08:30,599
The thing is, something was
actually happening there

1532
01:08:30,649 --> 01:08:32,340
in Venezuela at the time.

1533
01:08:32,390 --> 01:08:34,920
US foreign policy leaders
were doing their best

1534
01:08:34,970 --> 01:08:38,729
to delegitimize an election
by stoking an insurrection.

1535
01:08:38,779 --> 01:08:40,860
But unlike in the show,
their favorite candidate

1536
01:08:40,910 --> 01:08:45,120
was less populist and more
the empire friendly kind.

1537
01:08:45,170 --> 01:08:47,729
So with CIA and
DOD help, you might

1538
01:08:47,779 --> 01:08:51,330
say that Jack Ryan put a pretty
face on the whole operation

1539
01:08:51,380 --> 01:08:52,769
in real time.

1540
01:08:52,819 --> 01:08:55,110
My character is
Gloria Bonalde.

1541
01:08:55,160 --> 01:09:00,990
It's an amazing character
because she's a family woman.

1542
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:03,569
And she's not very
interested in politics.

1543
01:09:07,100 --> 01:09:08,550
ROGER STAHL: The
Pentagon also wants

1544
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:12,630
you to forget all about certain
policies of mass destruction.

1545
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:15,389
Consider Agent
Orange in Vietnam.

1546
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:17,790
This was a vast toxic
spraying program

1547
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:20,429
designed to kill the jungle
and make Vietnamese resistance

1548
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,380
fighters easier to bomb.

1549
01:09:22,430 --> 01:09:26,128
It poisoned a whole country,
including many US troops.

1550
01:09:26,178 --> 01:09:28,170
One of these poisoned vets
wrote a book about it,

1551
01:09:28,220 --> 01:09:29,962
along with his father,
who happened to have

1552
01:09:30,012 --> 01:09:31,960
been in charge of the spraying.

1553
01:09:32,010 --> 01:09:33,910
Eventually, a script
for a TV movie

1554
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:35,889
landed on the Pentagon's desk.

1555
01:09:35,939 --> 01:09:37,450
You guessed it.

1556
01:09:37,500 --> 01:09:39,610
The movie is
"inflammatory," they wrote.

1557
01:09:39,660 --> 01:09:42,670
Besides, "the exposure of most
Vietnam veterans to herbicide

1558
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:45,070
orange was not very great."

1559
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:47,590
Mind you, this was three
years after Agent Orange

1560
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,050
manufacturers had paid
out a huge class action

1561
01:09:50,100 --> 01:09:54,460
settlement in a case that drew
out over 100 medical studies.

1562
01:09:54,510 --> 01:09:56,590
Luckily, the film
got made in the end.

1563
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:58,690
Without it, throngs
of suffering vets

1564
01:09:58,740 --> 01:10:02,500
would have remained
invisible for much longer.

1565
01:10:02,550 --> 01:10:04,750
As time went on, it
also became clear

1566
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:07,660
that Agent Orange was having
near genocidal effects

1567
01:10:07,710 --> 01:10:09,460
on the Vietnamese population.

1568
01:10:09,510 --> 01:10:11,860
REPORTER: An epidemic of
birth defects, brain damage,

1569
01:10:11,910 --> 01:10:14,860
and rare cancers still
affecting hundreds of thousands

1570
01:10:14,910 --> 01:10:17,070
of Vietnamese today.

1571
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:18,820
ROGER STAHL: For the
Entertainment Office,

1572
01:10:18,870 --> 01:10:21,310
any reference to Agent
Orange was a problem,

1573
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:24,340
even if the program's
codename appeared years later

1574
01:10:24,390 --> 01:10:27,997
in some comic book movie.

1575
01:10:28,047 --> 01:10:29,080
MATTHEW ALFORD:
There was an Operation--

1576
01:10:29,130 --> 01:10:33,670
Operation Ranch Hand was
designed to capture the Hulk.

1577
01:10:37,810 --> 01:10:40,970
But the Pentagon didn't like
it, because of course, Operation

1578
01:10:41,020 --> 01:10:46,160
Ranch Hand was the name of a
real operation using chemicals

1579
01:10:46,210 --> 01:10:47,750
in Vietnam.

1580
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,840
So they were trying to avoid
any kind of association

1581
01:10:50,890 --> 01:10:54,060
with any of these
sorts of things.

1582
01:10:54,110 --> 01:10:57,260
I'm requesting a National
Command Authority Override.

1583
01:10:57,310 --> 01:11:00,380
Angry Man is unsecure.

1584
01:11:00,430 --> 01:11:01,760
MATTHEW ALFORD:
You could call it petty.

1585
01:11:01,810 --> 01:11:03,590
But in a way, it's
just-- it's the Pentagon

1586
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:07,620
operating like a slickly
oiled PR machine.

1587
01:11:07,670 --> 01:11:11,000
But it's a slickly oiled
PR machine that is not just

1588
01:11:11,050 --> 01:11:12,440
advertising toothpaste.

1589
01:11:12,490 --> 01:11:15,020
It's advertising the
most violent and powerful

1590
01:11:15,070 --> 01:11:16,940
organizations on the planet.

1591
01:11:20,970 --> 01:11:24,440
ROGER STAHL: The Office is also
touchy about nuclear weapons.

1592
01:11:24,490 --> 01:11:25,900
There's a long
history of rejecting

1593
01:11:25,950 --> 01:11:30,310
movies that suggest they might
not entirely be under control.

1594
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,650
Take one from the Cold
War, The Day After,

1595
01:11:32,700 --> 01:11:35,770
which envisioned the outcome
of a nuclear exchange.

1596
01:11:35,820 --> 01:11:39,110
It happened to be the highest
rated TV movie in history.

1597
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:42,460
Nearly half the US
population tuned in.

1598
01:11:42,510 --> 01:11:44,380
President Reagan
even watched it.

1599
01:11:44,430 --> 01:11:46,810
He wrote in his diary that
it left a powerful impression

1600
01:11:46,860 --> 01:11:47,311
on him.

1601
01:11:47,361 --> 01:11:51,390
And its influence led directly
to nuclear disarmament talks.

1602
01:11:51,440 --> 01:11:53,100
The Pentagon denied
this one because it

1603
01:11:53,150 --> 01:11:55,950
didn't like the image of
an accidental nuclear war,

1604
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,140
a skirmish that
gets out of control.

1605
01:11:58,190 --> 01:11:59,760
They wanted it to
be crystal clear

1606
01:11:59,810 --> 01:12:01,770
that the Soviets started it.

1607
01:12:01,820 --> 01:12:04,620
They had a problem with
this scene in particular.

1608
01:12:04,670 --> 01:12:07,578
Well, maybe
they'll contain it.

1609
01:12:07,628 --> 01:12:09,870
After all, I've still got
symphony tickets for tonight.

1610
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:12,328
The thing that bothers me is
that damn launch on warning.

1611
01:12:12,378 --> 01:12:13,141
What's that?

1612
01:12:13,191 --> 01:12:14,760
That's when one
side tells the other

1613
01:12:14,810 --> 01:12:16,290
that they're going to fire
their missiles as soon as they

1614
01:12:16,340 --> 01:12:18,690
think the other guy's missiles
are already on the way.

1615
01:12:18,740 --> 01:12:21,270
Use them or lose them.

1616
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:23,310
ROGER STAHL: The
Pentagon wanted this out.

1617
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:26,760
"We do not have a launch on
warning policy," they wrote.

1618
01:12:26,810 --> 01:12:30,490
"And the public should
not be misled that we do."

1619
01:12:30,540 --> 01:12:32,430
But they did.

1620
01:12:32,480 --> 01:12:34,770
Launch on warning was
an official policy

1621
01:12:34,820 --> 01:12:36,750
in The Single Integrated
Operational Plan

1622
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:38,670
beginning in 1979.

1623
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,700
And because of it, the US came
dangerously close to launching

1624
01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:43,670
in a few occasions.

1625
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:46,580
Thankfully, the filmmakers
stood their ground.

1626
01:12:46,630 --> 01:12:48,710
Had the Pentagon successfully
changed the script

1627
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:50,660
to lay all fault at the
feet of the Russians,

1628
01:12:50,710 --> 01:12:53,645
the film might have served to
drive nuclear buildup instead.

1629
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,850
The Pentagon's view of nukes
has reshaped entire franchises.

1630
01:13:00,900 --> 01:13:02,380
Consider Godzilla.

1631
01:13:02,430 --> 01:13:04,780
The monster began as
an explicit allegory

1632
01:13:04,830 --> 01:13:07,210
for the US nuclear
bombing of Japan.

1633
01:13:07,260 --> 01:13:09,490
And these critical
associations held all the way

1634
01:13:09,540 --> 01:13:13,420
through the 1998 version
with Matthew Broderick.

1635
01:13:13,470 --> 01:13:16,450
By 2014, though, the
DOD was fully involved.

1636
01:13:16,500 --> 01:13:18,610
So things had to change.

1637
01:13:18,660 --> 01:13:20,200
The nuclear sub
one of the monsters

1638
01:13:20,250 --> 01:13:21,820
carries off into
the jungle, they

1639
01:13:21,870 --> 01:13:23,800
switched that from
American to Russian,

1640
01:13:23,850 --> 01:13:25,800
as not to give the
impression that we could ever

1641
01:13:25,850 --> 01:13:28,870
lose control of our arsenal.

1642
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:30,847
We located your Russian sub.

1643
01:13:30,897 --> 01:13:32,680
ROGER STAHL: The whole
attitude toward nukes

1644
01:13:32,730 --> 01:13:34,240
had to change, too.

1645
01:13:34,290 --> 01:13:36,190
There was a scene in the
original script where

1646
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:38,410
one of the characters
tells a harrowing story

1647
01:13:38,460 --> 01:13:41,740
about his grandfather surviving
the bombing of Hiroshima.

1648
01:13:41,790 --> 01:13:43,970
The Office wanted it gone.

1649
01:13:44,020 --> 01:13:46,480
"If this is an apology or
questioning the decision

1650
01:13:46,530 --> 01:13:49,060
to bomb Hiroshima
and Nagasaki, that

1651
01:13:49,110 --> 01:13:51,370
will be a showstopper for us."

1652
01:13:51,420 --> 01:13:54,220
So we got this speech instead.

1653
01:13:54,270 --> 01:13:56,080
The arrogance
of man is thinking

1654
01:13:56,130 --> 01:14:01,157
nature is in our control,
and not the other way around.

1655
01:14:01,207 --> 01:14:02,240
ROGER STAHL: There's more.

1656
01:14:02,290 --> 01:14:03,890
The bomb goes from
being the threat

1657
01:14:03,940 --> 01:14:05,900
to helping solve the problem.

1658
01:14:05,950 --> 01:14:07,820
It turns out, the nukes
weren't the monsters

1659
01:14:07,870 --> 01:14:10,550
but were actually being used
to blow up monsters back

1660
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:11,970
in the day.

1661
01:14:12,020 --> 01:14:13,970
All those nuclear
bomb tests in the '50s.

1662
01:14:18,010 --> 01:14:19,630
Not tests.

1663
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:23,110
They were trying to kill it.

1664
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:26,410
ROGER STAHL: And they
were still our best hope.

1665
01:14:26,460 --> 01:14:28,510
Beautiful, isn't it?

1666
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:30,910
Godzilla was
different after this.

1667
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:33,790
The 2019 version
didn't have DOD help.

1668
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:37,780
But it nevertheless stuck with
the nukes as heroes theme.

1669
01:14:37,830 --> 01:14:40,000
A planned explosion
supercharges Godzilla

1670
01:14:40,050 --> 01:14:42,620
to fight the good fight.

1671
01:14:42,670 --> 01:14:45,730
It's hard to imagine a
more complete reversal.

1672
01:14:45,780 --> 01:14:49,150
This long time warning about
the dangers of proliferation

1673
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:51,550
is now an extension
of the US military

1674
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:54,310
and something of an
advertisement for the bomb.

1675
01:14:57,252 --> 01:15:00,576
[MUSIC PLAYING]

1676
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:05,390
These days, it's not
just about war movies.

1677
01:15:05,440 --> 01:15:07,160
The Pentagon has
managed to colonize

1678
01:15:07,210 --> 01:15:10,040
the entire
entertainment landscape.

1679
01:15:10,090 --> 01:15:12,600
They've always had their
toe in sci-fi, for example.,

1680
01:15:12,650 --> 01:15:14,810
But now it's a major
part of the game.

1681
01:15:14,860 --> 01:15:17,390
Consider that Transformers
was the first franchise

1682
01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:19,850
to cooperate with
all four branches.

1683
01:15:19,900 --> 01:15:22,460
Sci-fi and comic book
movies served as a refuge

1684
01:15:22,510 --> 01:15:26,940
from all those real and hugely
unpopular overseas occupations.

1685
01:15:26,990 --> 01:15:28,940
TANNER MIRRLEES: The
science fiction and fantasy

1686
01:15:28,990 --> 01:15:31,100
creates kind of
an imaginary space

1687
01:15:31,150 --> 01:15:33,170
for the various
melodramas of the military

1688
01:15:33,220 --> 01:15:36,830
to be scripted and played out
without ever having to address

1689
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,250
the real motives of foreign
policy in the world today,

1690
01:15:40,300 --> 01:15:43,760
nor the consequences for
those that fight on its behalf

1691
01:15:43,810 --> 01:15:46,917
and die in its wake.

1692
01:15:46,967 --> 01:15:48,500
ROGER STAHL: If this
embrace of sci-fi

1693
01:15:48,550 --> 01:15:51,227
strikes you as a bit
strange, you're not alone.

1694
01:15:51,277 --> 01:15:53,060
ROBIN ANDERSEN: When
Philip Strub or anybody

1695
01:15:53,110 --> 01:15:54,710
in the Entertainment
Liaison Office

1696
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:56,960
says that it has to
be accurate, we're

1697
01:15:57,010 --> 01:15:59,240
just changing these scripts
to make it accurate,

1698
01:15:59,290 --> 01:16:05,240
what I love about that is now
we are battling space invaders.

1699
01:16:05,290 --> 01:16:07,760
That's not a very
accurate portrayal

1700
01:16:07,810 --> 01:16:09,680
of the Department of
Defense and the role

1701
01:16:09,730 --> 01:16:12,268
of the Department of Defense.

1702
01:16:12,318 --> 01:16:14,060
ROGER STAHL: Once you've
conquered fantasy,

1703
01:16:14,110 --> 01:16:15,260
where do you go?

1704
01:16:15,310 --> 01:16:17,020
Reality, of course.

1705
01:16:17,070 --> 01:16:18,770
This is probably the
most surprising thing

1706
01:16:18,820 --> 01:16:20,000
about the documents.

1707
01:16:20,050 --> 01:16:23,390
The Pentagon has staked a flag
in every little strange corner

1708
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:25,508
of reality TV.

1709
01:16:25,558 --> 01:16:27,050
They've had their
hand in game shows,

1710
01:16:27,100 --> 01:16:29,240
like The Price Is
Right for a while.

1711
01:16:29,290 --> 01:16:31,280
Despite all the yelling
and running around,

1712
01:16:31,330 --> 01:16:34,160
the military carefully
manages these events.

1713
01:16:34,210 --> 01:16:36,410
This includes
handpicking participants.

1714
01:16:36,460 --> 01:16:38,060
And audience
participation is out,

1715
01:16:38,110 --> 01:16:41,300
because they regard
it as too spontaneous.

1716
01:16:41,350 --> 01:16:43,890
On these game shows and
especially daytime talk shows,

1717
01:16:43,940 --> 01:16:45,710
you'll see a ton of reunions.

1718
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:48,710
The office is constantly
arranging them.

1719
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:52,550
Then there are the many military
themed home makeover shows.

1720
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:55,430
You can also invite the Dude
Perfect influencers to romp

1721
01:16:55,480 --> 01:16:56,472
on your aircraft carrier.

1722
01:16:56,522 --> 01:16:58,430
I've wanted to do
something like this since I

1723
01:16:58,480 --> 01:16:59,597
saw the movie Top Gun.

1724
01:16:59,647 --> 01:17:01,097
ROGER STAHL: Or
have the Rachael Ray

1725
01:17:01,147 --> 01:17:02,570
Show put a bunch
of service people

1726
01:17:02,620 --> 01:17:04,490
through a cooking challenge.

1727
01:17:04,540 --> 01:17:06,770
Cooking shows are an
astonishingly big part

1728
01:17:06,820 --> 01:17:08,810
of Pentagon assistance with TV.

1729
01:17:08,860 --> 01:17:10,610
Cake shows, especially.

1730
01:17:10,660 --> 01:17:12,620
Boy, do they love
cake shows, lots

1731
01:17:12,670 --> 01:17:17,600
of different kinds of cakes,
fighter jet cakes, tank cakes.

1732
01:17:17,650 --> 01:17:20,990
You have competition shows that
serve as recruiting vehicles.

1733
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:23,570
Then there's what you might
call harder TV documentary

1734
01:17:23,620 --> 01:17:26,790
fare, the kind of stuff on the
History and Discovery channels.

1735
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:29,300
These are those programs that
celebrate weapon systems,

1736
01:17:29,350 --> 01:17:32,513
sniper rifles, Apache
helicopters, F-35s,

1737
01:17:32,563 --> 01:17:34,430
and what it's like to
drive what will probably

1738
01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:35,930
replace the Humvee.

1739
01:17:35,980 --> 01:17:38,150
So that's what Jay
Leno has been up to.

1740
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:39,770
Well, that was pretty cool.

1741
01:17:39,820 --> 01:17:41,312
ROGER STAHL: This
also includes shows

1742
01:17:41,362 --> 01:17:43,700
like Taking Fire and Inside
Combat Rescue that embeds you

1743
01:17:43,750 --> 01:17:45,530
with the troops
overseas, usually

1744
01:17:45,580 --> 01:17:48,770
through the eye
of the helmet cam.

1745
01:17:48,820 --> 01:17:52,790
The guy behind this pivot to
reality TV was David Evans.

1746
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:56,060
He took over as director of
the Pentagon office in 2018,

1747
01:17:56,110 --> 01:17:58,670
but before that, his job
was to manage assistance

1748
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:01,700
for documentary and
unscripted television.

1749
01:18:01,750 --> 01:18:04,790
Shows like Inside Combat
Rescue represented a big turn

1750
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:07,850
in that direction,
a winning formula.

1751
01:18:07,900 --> 01:18:10,900
DAVID EVANS: It was a huge
success for Nat Geo.

1752
01:18:10,950 --> 01:18:13,580
They saw the ratings go
through the roof on it.

1753
01:18:13,630 --> 01:18:17,090
A year later, two years later,
three years down the line,

1754
01:18:17,140 --> 01:18:19,670
other filmmakers coming
to us, wanting to do--

1755
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:22,760
or wanting to do something
like a Nat Geo show.

1756
01:18:22,810 --> 01:18:24,740
And they'll say as much.

1757
01:18:24,790 --> 01:18:28,202
Yeah, we want to do another
Inside Combat Rescue.

1758
01:18:28,252 --> 01:18:30,410
ROGER STAHL: Striking out
into all this new territory

1759
01:18:30,460 --> 01:18:33,650
has required that the Office
take a more aggressive posture.

1760
01:18:33,700 --> 01:18:36,050
These days, they're not just
waiting around for producers

1761
01:18:36,100 --> 01:18:36,981
to come to them.

1762
01:18:37,031 --> 01:18:40,460
They're out there pounding the
pavement and drumming up deals.

1763
01:18:40,510 --> 01:18:41,960
Suddenly, the Air
Force is producing

1764
01:18:42,010 --> 01:18:44,000
an ad for its services
and circulating it

1765
01:18:44,050 --> 01:18:45,595
among industry types.

1766
01:18:45,645 --> 01:18:47,720
NARRATOR: The Air Force
Entertainment Liaison Office

1767
01:18:47,770 --> 01:18:51,140
is the industry's gateway
to an extraordinary arsenal

1768
01:18:51,190 --> 01:18:54,950
of aircraft, equipment,
incredible personnel,

1769
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:55,938
and locations.

1770
01:18:55,988 --> 01:18:58,520
ROGER STAHL: They're hitting the
road to conferences and trade

1771
01:18:58,570 --> 01:19:00,300
shows to reach new markets.

1772
01:19:00,350 --> 01:19:02,480
KEN HAWES: And the reason
that we are here today

1773
01:19:02,530 --> 01:19:06,350
is to inform filmmakers
about our capability,

1774
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,380
about our office, and
what we can do to help

1775
01:19:09,430 --> 01:19:11,457
them help us tell our story.

1776
01:19:11,507 --> 01:19:13,790
ROGER STAHL: They're presenting
at Comic-Con and a bunch

1777
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:15,650
of other industry conferences.

1778
01:19:15,700 --> 01:19:17,450
They're going to
military tech expos,

1779
01:19:17,500 --> 01:19:19,610
not to advertise their
services, but to find out

1780
01:19:19,660 --> 01:19:23,540
what cool new gadgets are out
there to pitch to producers.

1781
01:19:23,590 --> 01:19:25,928
Publicly, they claim
they don't pitch.

1782
01:19:25,978 --> 01:19:28,220
Here's the new head of the
Pentagon office at that Navy

1783
01:19:28,270 --> 01:19:29,211
webinar.

1784
01:19:29,261 --> 01:19:31,250
GLEN ROBERTS: We
don't ever pitch.

1785
01:19:31,300 --> 01:19:33,920
We don't have an active pitch
where I will call a studio

1786
01:19:33,970 --> 01:19:36,290
and say, hey, have you
guys thought about this.

1787
01:19:36,340 --> 01:19:38,270
ROGER STAHL: You have to
wonder why he's saying

1788
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:40,220
this when they clearly do.

1789
01:19:40,270 --> 01:19:41,990
Recall, they had
pitched Act of Valor

1790
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:44,660
to the studios and pitched
episodes about sexual assault

1791
01:19:44,710 --> 01:19:49,130
to NCIS, what they internally
called the Navy's big request.

1792
01:19:49,180 --> 01:19:52,040
But there's a whole lot of
day to day pitching, too.

1793
01:19:52,090 --> 01:19:53,600
They sent a
congratulatory letter

1794
01:19:53,650 --> 01:19:55,700
to the new head of
Fox Team Programming

1795
01:19:55,750 --> 01:19:59,420
and requested a meeting to pitch
him potential Air Force ideas.

1796
01:19:59,470 --> 01:20:01,430
They pitched a story of
a Marine and her bomb

1797
01:20:01,480 --> 01:20:04,640
sniffing dog to film studios,
Animal Planet, Letterman,

1798
01:20:04,690 --> 01:20:06,920
and Extreme Makeover
Home Edition.

1799
01:20:06,970 --> 01:20:08,900
And they took the
opportunity while working

1800
01:20:08,950 --> 01:20:11,150
on an episode of Extreme
Makeover Home edition

1801
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:13,820
to pitch an idea about doing
it again with a different Air

1802
01:20:13,870 --> 01:20:15,320
Force team.

1803
01:20:15,370 --> 01:20:17,240
In the past few years,
you start to see

1804
01:20:17,290 --> 01:20:19,850
entire sections of the
weekly reports categorized

1805
01:20:19,900 --> 01:20:21,380
under outreach.

1806
01:20:21,430 --> 01:20:23,930
The military worries when they
notice a production for which

1807
01:20:23,980 --> 01:20:25,580
they were not approached.

1808
01:20:25,630 --> 01:20:28,880
So they often reach out
to offer assistance.

1809
01:20:28,930 --> 01:20:30,500
Back when he headed
up the office,

1810
01:20:30,550 --> 01:20:34,220
David Evans summarized this role
on his own LinkedIn account.

1811
01:20:34,270 --> 01:20:37,430
Engagement runs through the
entire spectrum of production,

1812
01:20:37,480 --> 01:20:42,620
beginning all the way back with
concept and script development.

1813
01:20:42,670 --> 01:20:44,810
So we're at a unique
point in the evolution

1814
01:20:44,860 --> 01:20:47,530
of military
propaganda in the US.

1815
01:20:47,580 --> 01:20:49,180
On the one hand, the
Office has managed

1816
01:20:49,230 --> 01:20:53,440
to evade scrutiny and insinuate
itself more deeply than ever.

1817
01:20:53,490 --> 01:20:56,380
But on the other, we can
finally see the big picture

1818
01:20:56,430 --> 01:20:58,670
and do something about it.

1819
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:01,490
[MUSIC PLAYING]

1820
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:06,940
MATTHEW ALFORD: I think
the reason it's important,

1821
01:21:06,990 --> 01:21:09,490
and perhaps the reason
it's important to me,

1822
01:21:09,540 --> 01:21:12,580
is because whenever
there is American

1823
01:21:12,630 --> 01:21:15,890
and British military
action around the world,

1824
01:21:15,940 --> 01:21:17,440
particularly over
the last 20 years,

1825
01:21:17,490 --> 01:21:21,580
that military action has
been extremely destructive.

1826
01:21:21,630 --> 01:21:23,020
ROGER STAHL: The
stakes are high.

1827
01:21:23,070 --> 01:21:25,180
We're talking about
dominant representations

1828
01:21:25,230 --> 01:21:28,030
of the most powerful military
on the planet, bigger

1829
01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:30,240
than the next dozen
countries combined

1830
01:21:30,290 --> 01:21:31,990
that has been bombing
other countries more

1831
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:34,570
or less continually
since World War II,

1832
01:21:34,620 --> 01:21:38,098
and with a staggering
legacy of human suffering.

1833
01:21:38,148 --> 01:21:41,521
[MUSIC PLAYING]

1834
01:22:00,190 --> 01:22:06,400
MATTHEW ALFORD: The mood music
for that is our popular culture.

1835
01:22:06,450 --> 01:22:08,400
ROGER STAHL: This is
the cinematic universe that's

1836
01:22:08,450 --> 01:22:11,610
been operating under the radar
for decades in which there

1837
01:22:11,660 --> 01:22:15,000
isn't a problem the US
military can't solve,

1838
01:22:15,050 --> 01:22:19,330
and where alternative stories
get sucked into a black hole.

1839
01:22:19,380 --> 01:22:22,770
It's a universe of
officially prescribed threats

1840
01:22:22,820 --> 01:22:24,923
and target nations.

1841
01:22:24,973 --> 01:22:26,340
SEBASTIAN KAEMPF:
This is not just

1842
01:22:26,390 --> 01:22:29,490
a concern to the United States.

1843
01:22:29,540 --> 01:22:31,710
It is a concern to the world.

1844
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:36,240
These are highly censored,
politically motivated

1845
01:22:36,290 --> 01:22:40,872
portrayals of the American
empire, if you wish.

1846
01:22:40,922 --> 01:22:42,580
MATTHEW ALFORD: We're
just a bit affected

1847
01:22:42,630 --> 01:22:45,820
by that, which means that we're
a bit more confident about how

1848
01:22:45,870 --> 01:22:48,310
great military action will be.

1849
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:50,500
And we're a bit more
confident that those

1850
01:22:50,550 --> 01:22:54,550
evil Iranians, or those evil
Chinese, or evil Venezuelans,

1851
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:57,430
or whatever it is, we're just a
bit more confident that they're

1852
01:22:57,480 --> 01:22:59,620
a bit less human.

1853
01:22:59,670 --> 01:23:02,830
And that kills thousands,
tens of thousands,

1854
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:07,000
or even in Iraq's
case, a million people.

1855
01:23:07,050 --> 01:23:08,710
ROGER STAHL: It
eventually hit me.

1856
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,290
This isn't just a collection
of script changes.

1857
01:23:11,340 --> 01:23:14,770
We're inside of it, speeding
through this world created

1858
01:23:14,820 --> 01:23:18,130
in the image of the
military industrial complex.

1859
01:23:18,180 --> 01:23:20,680
And with razor thin
margins of public support

1860
01:23:20,730 --> 01:23:22,630
for some of these
disastrous wars,

1861
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:24,850
this skewed image of
the world might just

1862
01:23:24,900 --> 01:23:28,600
be nudging us over the edge.

1863
01:23:28,650 --> 01:23:32,200
So what questions should we
be asking if we want out?

1864
01:23:32,250 --> 01:23:34,020
Why shouldn't we know
what they're doing?

1865
01:23:34,070 --> 01:23:35,770
They shut down a battleship,

1866
01:23:35,820 --> 01:23:38,560
put up a giant 22 foot
tall movie screen--

1867
01:23:38,610 --> 01:23:43,660
And actually, should we even
be paying these organizations

1868
01:23:43,710 --> 01:23:47,500
to generate propaganda
that's going to be

1869
01:23:47,550 --> 01:23:49,150
bounced back to
us at the movies?

1870
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:52,360
Why do Americans not
hear Voice of America

1871
01:23:52,410 --> 01:23:56,290
or any of the other
identified propaganda formats

1872
01:23:56,340 --> 01:23:58,800
distributed around the globe?

1873
01:23:58,850 --> 01:24:01,300
ROGER STAHL: It turns out that
the US has some long standing

1874
01:24:01,350 --> 01:24:03,160
propaganda laws that,
at the very least,

1875
01:24:03,210 --> 01:24:06,010
prohibit its use on
domestic audiences.

1876
01:24:06,060 --> 01:24:08,380
And the DOD's own public
affairs directives

1877
01:24:08,430 --> 01:24:10,630
prohibits selective
benefit, that

1878
01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:13,750
is favoritism toward a
particular ideological movement

1879
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:15,860
or commercial enterprise.

1880
01:24:15,910 --> 01:24:17,860
So it seems like
abolishing the Office might

1881
01:24:17,910 --> 01:24:20,380
have some legal justification.

1882
01:24:20,430 --> 01:24:23,743
But what if these deals could
just be made more transparent?

1883
01:24:23,793 --> 01:24:25,660
It's clear that the
Freedom of Information Act

1884
01:24:25,710 --> 01:24:27,520
isn't quite cutting it.

1885
01:24:27,570 --> 01:24:29,560
For example, Tom
Secker asked the Navy

1886
01:24:29,610 --> 01:24:31,570
for the past decade
of script notes.

1887
01:24:31,620 --> 01:24:33,400
They said they didn't keep them.

1888
01:24:33,450 --> 01:24:37,120
Two years, over 100 emails,
and three formal appeals later,

1889
01:24:37,170 --> 01:24:41,470
they admitted they did
keep them, 240,000 pages.

1890
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,720
But they said they couldn't
release them, because they

1891
01:24:43,770 --> 01:24:46,270
contained trade secrets.

1892
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:48,910
They're giving us the runaround
more and more these days.

1893
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:51,460
It's getting to the
point of absurdity.

1894
01:24:51,510 --> 01:24:54,130
Like the time when Tom put in
a request for documents related

1895
01:24:54,180 --> 01:24:55,840
to a dozen productions
and the DOD

1896
01:24:55,890 --> 01:25:02,440
came back with 1,000 pages
redacted, and I mean blank.

1897
01:25:02,490 --> 01:25:05,530
It may take legal action to
get these offices to comply

1898
01:25:05,580 --> 01:25:07,900
with public
information requests.

1899
01:25:07,950 --> 01:25:10,180
But on the most basic
level, shouldn't we at least

1900
01:25:10,230 --> 01:25:12,790
know if they've had their
hands on a production?

1901
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:14,830
After all, rules for
commercial entities

1902
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:17,770
have been around
since the 1930s.

1903
01:25:17,820 --> 01:25:19,660
Take this typical
military supported

1904
01:25:19,710 --> 01:25:22,400
episode of Rachael Ray that
featured military themed

1905
01:25:22,450 --> 01:25:24,190
Suave products.

1906
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:28,060
At the end, Suave is required to
disclose, but not the military.

1907
01:25:28,110 --> 01:25:29,240
That could change.

1908
01:25:29,290 --> 01:25:32,080
So you might see
something like this.

1909
01:25:32,130 --> 01:25:35,020
OK, maybe something
more like this.

1910
01:25:35,070 --> 01:25:36,580
The point is--

1911
01:25:36,630 --> 01:25:39,470
The public has
a right to know.

1912
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:42,550
And I think the Pentagon
should be legally obliged

1913
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:45,370
to make that information
available to the public.

1914
01:25:45,420 --> 01:25:48,220
Not at the very end of
a 3-minute credit run.

1915
01:25:48,270 --> 01:25:50,740
Not in the scrolling
credits, somebody

1916
01:25:50,790 --> 01:25:52,690
listed as a technical advisor.

1917
01:25:52,740 --> 01:25:55,270
At the start of the film.

1918
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:56,830
SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: It wouldn't
be particularly popular

1919
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:59,500
either with the film industry
or with the Pentagon,

1920
01:25:59,550 --> 01:26:01,870
because people, I think,
would not necessarily

1921
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:04,900
be prepared to pay money
to see a film like that.

1922
01:26:04,950 --> 01:26:06,160
If the CIA wrote a movie,

1923
01:26:06,210 --> 01:26:07,630
do you really want
to go see that?

1924
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:10,690
I mean, is that what's going
to pull in box office numbers?

1925
01:26:10,740 --> 01:26:11,920
No.

1926
01:26:11,970 --> 01:26:13,910
Then we get a culture
that is greater--

1927
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:17,090
with a greater degree
of transparency.

1928
01:26:17,140 --> 01:26:19,330
And then the public will
vote with their feet

1929
01:26:19,380 --> 01:26:20,500
and vote with their wallets.

1930
01:26:20,550 --> 01:26:24,460
I think at the end of the day,
because I'm a media educator,

1931
01:26:24,510 --> 01:26:28,390
I really just want people to
be critical media consumers.

1932
01:26:28,440 --> 01:26:31,360
The problem is that you can't
be a critical media consumer

1933
01:26:31,410 --> 01:26:33,820
unless this relationship
between your war

1934
01:26:33,870 --> 01:26:37,570
movies and the military or
your spy movies and the CIA

1935
01:26:37,620 --> 01:26:40,240
is made transparent.

1936
01:26:40,290 --> 01:26:42,160
Because the moment you
become aware of it,

1937
01:26:42,210 --> 01:26:46,120
you can go to the movies
and be far less subject

1938
01:26:46,170 --> 01:26:49,270
to the propaganda messages
that the government is

1939
01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:54,180
trying to get you to believe,
or to accept, or to act upon.

1940
01:26:54,230 --> 01:26:57,222
I guess that's really
what I want for people.

1941
01:26:57,272 --> 01:26:58,680
ROGER STAHL: For
a decade now, I've

1942
01:26:58,730 --> 01:27:02,130
been asking myself the same
question over and over.

1943
01:27:02,180 --> 01:27:05,670
Has the long arm of the security
state refashioned this one?

1944
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:07,440
And how about this one?

1945
01:27:07,490 --> 01:27:10,750
Now you're asking it too.

1946
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:12,052
Imagine living--

1947
01:27:12,102 --> 01:27:13,510
MOVIE TRAILER VOICE:
in a world--

1948
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:16,387
ROGER STAHL: --where
we don't have to.

1949
01:27:16,437 --> 01:27:21,180
[MUSIC PLAYING]