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Hi, my name is Danny Elfman
and I'm the composer of the score.
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I'll be doing a bit of commentary.
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This is where the two primary themes for
Edward Scissorhands play back-to-back.
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The story theme
and Edward's two themes, really.
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The first one you just heard
and the one coming up at the end of this cue.
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And here's the next theme
beginning right now.
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Edward Scissorhands,
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after doing, at this point, as I speak,
I believe, 37, 38 scores,
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still is either one of my favourites
or perhaps even my favourite.
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So many levels.
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I'll get into some of that, I suppose,
as we go in this commentary.
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What we just finished
was an extended title sequence.
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Titles are really important to me,
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especially in a movie like this,
in a fantasy film,
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because they have to tell us
what we're going to see and feel,
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what we're getting into.
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This was an interesting one.
It was divided into three different sections.
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The opening, over the credits,
was what I would call Edward's first theme.
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And it's more the playful,
storybook side of Edward,
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the fact that he is in a fairy tale,
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and this is a fairy tale
and that's what it's saying.
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Then when we go to the grandmother,
Winona Ryder, talking to her child,
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it goes into a piece
that I don't consider a primary theme.
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It's basically carrying on
a different version of...
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it's a story and this story
is really beginning here.
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And very critical to Tim and I,
at the end of that scene,
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we're going to see Edward
for the first time.
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And that was gonna be the very first time that
we would hear Edward's emotional theme,
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his second theme,
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which is really the theme
that represents the heart of the character.
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And Tim and I talked about whether that
should play in the beginning over the credits,
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but decided to just save it and play a bit of it
like a premonition of what's to come.
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And it felt like the correct thing to do.
So it's kind of odd,
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because in a way
it's the main theme of the movie,
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but we just play it for a few moments
at the very end of the scene.
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When I first start a score, I play around
for quite a bit with the thematic ideas.
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I have to really know that they're gonna play
all the beats that I want them to play.
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There was a number of weeks where I was
coming up with ideas, playing them for Tim,
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and not really necessarily putting them
against individual scenes in picture.
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But it was just knowing that
there were these different sides of Edward.
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One would play over the inventor
because that's one part of the story.
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The other would play over the ice scene,
that was Edward's emotional centre.
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And Edward's music
would even play over Kim, as a character,
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that she wasn't going to get her own theme.
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I suppose, classically speaking,
that's odd too,
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but I like following the emotions,
not the characters.
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I've always felt that way
and that carried into this score as well.
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Here we're playing the entire opening theme,
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very darkly this time.
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Well, that cue had a lot of jobs to do
and it was so much fun to write.
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I had to cover everything that we were seeing.
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And I think it taps into my love of
the really old, old-fashioned movie scoring,
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back to the '30s and '40s,
which is the stuff that kind of inspired me,
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because it's all about storytelling.
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You're telling the story in the music
that you're seeing,
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so even if you watch the images
and listen to the music,
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you know what they feel and think.
It's taking that first frolicky theme
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and turning it more ominous and switching
between ominous and wonderment,
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and wonderment to menace,
and menace to a bit of a light frolic.
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And we're gonna change pace totally in
a few moments and go to our suburbia theme.
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And the suburban motif
is a little bit kind of like Muzak
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and follows the look and the feel
of this neighbourhood that they live in,
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which is kind of a Muzaky neighbourhood.
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The fun thing about that cue was
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turning the chairs around, in the sense that,
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instead of the wonderment of everybody
coming into Edward's existence,
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this was Edward seeing suburbia,
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which of course,
looks absurd to our standards,
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but to him, it's this incredible new
wonderland, this thing of his dreams.
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And the wonderful joy I had
in writing this score
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was that the themes were so simple
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and I got to do
all these different variations on them.
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And I'd been doing
so many chaotic, big, heavy scores,
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or kind of insane scores,
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that to have something that I could stay
within the context of simple melodies,
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that the variations would be very subtle,
was something that meant a lot to me.
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Of all the variations on Edward's main theme,
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this next one coming up
was really my favourite.
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I didn't know it when I wrote it,
but how it came out,
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it was very, very simple and understated
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and captured in many ways
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what I was attempting to go for
in this kind of innocent heart of Edward.
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And it's funny, you never know
those things beforehand.
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I thought the bigger statements
would be my favourite,
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but this one always stayed with me.
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I don't want to keep going on forever
about how special Edward was for me.
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I'm gonna get all mushy here.
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I think it was really one of Tim's purest works.
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It's so much of Tim in Edward.
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And Johnny Depp pulled it off so great.
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I remember being sceptical at first,
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cos I thought of him as a television actor.
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From the scene that we just saw on,
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I was so sold on the way he was playing it,
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the way he looked and everything about it.
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There were many other elements too.
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Everything about it.
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The writer, Caroline Thompson,
was my girlfriend.
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We had the pleasure
of having the opening night
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and being able to sit together.
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It was an amazing experience for me.
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It was also right at the time
in my composing career
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where I was starting to feel
a lot more confident.
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The first films I did,
I had no idea what to make of anything.
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It was just like this kind of strange world
and I didn't think I was doing a good job.
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I thought I was blundering,
although I was having fun,
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especially with Tim's movies,
Beetlejuice and Pee-wee's Big Adventure.
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And by the time I survived Batman,
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I thought I could handle
just about anything now.
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"lt doesn't get harder than this."
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And having gotten through that,
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I think I was feeling for the first time like,
"Oh, I guess I'm a film composer now."
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Up until that point, I thought it was still kind
of something I was dabbling in on the side,
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but finally I started feeling like
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maybe I even knew what I was doing
a little bit and I was learning a lot.
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Every film I was learning more, and by
the time I got here, probably my 15th film,
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I was actually feeling like, beginning
to feel like I knew what I was doing
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and I was getting lost in it
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and experiencing it
on a completely different level.
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I guess, for no other reason,
I was not nervous any more.
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I was looking at films
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and certainly Edward was one
where I felt like I was the right person.
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I understood it completely.
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I don't think, and I didn't think,
that I was the best composer, and I still don't,
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but when I'm in a movie
that I'm really engaged in,
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I feel like I'm the best composer,
at that moment, for that movie.
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When I write the music,
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I think I'm doing it
the way it really should be done.
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And I'm not saying that in a conceited way,
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because I guess every actor
has to feel that about a part,
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and I think a composer does too.
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A movie that means a lot to them,
they have to feel they're right for it
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and I really felt right for this one.
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There's not much to say about that cue.
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A little bit of fun and then one more statement
of one of the secondary themes,
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which happened a bit,
usually in the beginning and the end
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of getting us into
one of the more primary themes.
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I don't wanna start going on about that
too much cos I'll start to trip myself up.
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The suburban music was fun to write.
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That was one of the first things
I encountered on the project,
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cos I came and visited the set in Florida
when they were shooting.
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There was all this suburbia. I couldn't believe
they'd turned the neighbourhood into this,
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but I didn't know how that was going to relate
exactly to the rest of the movie.
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In Tim's movies in particular, I've learnt not
to try to second-guess where it's gonna go
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or what it's gonna look like.
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I knew there was going to be
a lot of really fun music.
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In Beetlejuice, for example, we got to do
some bits of lounge-inspired music,
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when he's waiting
in the waiting room at the end.
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Beetlejuice and the shrunken head -
that scene. There were these moments.
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I had a feeling that in Edward,
we would be able to tap into
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a little bit of this '60s-inspired,
lounge-influenced element to suburbia.
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In the last scene,
we got to use that "clip-clop, clip-clop",
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with the wood blocks
to kind of give it this clock tempo.
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And the next one coming up,
the "ballet du suburbia" again was...
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We called it a ballet
just because it looked so choreographed.
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The first scenes that Richard Halsey, when I
went to Florida, showed me, was this stuff.
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This, by the way, is a scene
which meant a lot musically to me.
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That's because there is no music,
and I was extremely grateful for that.
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This is a moment, classically, where I would
be asked to score and I'd do it reluctantly.
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And I could write a cue for this scene,
but it wouldn't make it better,
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it'd probably make it worse.
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The way Johnny played this,
it was so dead-on perfect,
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and I was so glad
that we didn't have to put any music to it,
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because it worked, it didn't need it.
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But as many times as I've said that
in the past, I'm usually ignored.
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The craziness in that scene was,
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for absolutely no reason,
in the middle of it, it gets dramatic.
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There are so many things
that happen during a film score
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that have no real rhyme or reason to me,
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but at the moment it seems like, "why not?"
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Put a little drama in the middle
of this car pulling out of the driveway.
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Tim, thank God,
lets me get away with that stuff.
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In fact, whenever I play a cue like that, I dread
the moment that something's gonna happen.
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I expect that he's going to go,
"Are you crazy?"
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And Tim's the opposite.
Moments like that usually delight him.
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I guess we have the same sense of humour
when it comes to certain oddities like that.
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Most directors would have simply gone,
"All right, Danny, great, thanks."
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"Play me what you really want to play there.
You're obviously just having a bit of fun."
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Tim is one of the few directors
who would listen to it and go:
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"Yeah, let's do it. Great."
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"lt's interesting, it does something, and
whatever it is, it's fun and we should do it."
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So I'm very grateful to him for that.
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This is a scene where there's going to be a
major cutting piece of music coming up soon,
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but I was very glad
we didn't have to play this.
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The lack of music at certain moments
makes other moments so much more special.
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It's hard to explain.
When there's music all the time,
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it ends up diminishing the entire impact
of the music that's there.
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I think that most films have too much music,
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but here we got to have some moments
that I didn't have to play.
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Again, I was really grateful for it cos it
was perfect and it didn't need any music.
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The Esmeralda character was definitely
one of the odd things in this movie.
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She has her music, though.
Not a theme that played a number of times.
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You can hear the religious element here.
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I think we're about to come up
on Vincent Price's entrance here.
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And I'm sure that if you listen to Tim's
commentary, he'll talk about Vincent.
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Funny thing between Tim and I
is that when he grew up,
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Vincent Price, I believe, was his idol,
and Peter Lorre was mine.
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And of course, Vincent Price and Peter Lorre
acted in so many films together.
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Vincent, of course, usually being the torturer,
and Peter Lorre being the tormented.
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I don't know for sure whether that
comments on Tim and I or not.
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But I did get to meet, through Tim,
Vincent, before he died
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and it was one of my great pleasures.
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He was a great, great idol.
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Again, it was getting back
to that thing that I loved doing,
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that musical storytelling
in the very old-fashioned sense.
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The difficult thing about that scene...
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And I'd already gone through this earlier,
in the first movie I did with Tim,
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the breakfast machine
in Pee-wee's Big Adventure.
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But this one was much more difficult to score
because there was such a rhythm
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that you felt in all of these walking devices.
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I might have mentioned,
I love playing footsteps and walking.
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I wasn't supposed to, but I played the mother
walking up when she first discovers Edward.
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And here, I was trying
to give a tempo to all the machinery,
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yet the machinery wasn't going to any tempo,
they weren't following a click or tempo.
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They were just more or less moving in
rhythm, so you'd see the feet, the machine,
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then it'd cut away and cut back.
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I'd have to make sure
that by the time we cut back,
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we feel like we're back in a tempo.
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00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,206
There was a long stretch
with the machine walking.
221
00:36:49,457 --> 00:36:53,878
It looks easy, but it's very tricky.
222
00:36:53,961 --> 00:36:57,548
It means a lot of very subtle
manipulation of the tempos.
223
00:36:57,632 --> 00:37:03,304
And a scene like that,
as much fun as it was to write,
224
00:37:03,388 --> 00:37:07,058
took an enormous amount of time
to block out.
225
00:37:07,850 --> 00:37:09,143
It's hard to explain.
226
00:37:09,227 --> 00:37:15,608
Before writing a note of music to a scene,
there's tempo mapping.
227
00:37:18,319 --> 00:37:21,948
It's creating a map of every beat in the cue,
228
00:37:22,031 --> 00:37:24,575
and what's going to be caught exactly where.
229
00:37:24,659 --> 00:37:27,328
In a scene like that, as short as the scene is,
230
00:37:27,412 --> 00:37:32,542
it can take a day to block the tempo out,
before actually writing a note.
231
00:37:32,625 --> 00:37:37,797
When you're on a film score and you don't
have a lot of time to write the music,
232
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:44,762
taking big chunks of time just to work out
your tempo mapping can get pretty scary.
233
00:37:44,846 --> 00:37:49,559
All the time you're doing that, you're not
writing music and you're getting behind.
234
00:37:49,642 --> 00:37:54,480
Yet, in the end, to see it work is so gratifying.
235
00:37:54,564 --> 00:37:56,566
I guess it's like an animator feels
236
00:37:56,649 --> 00:37:59,527
when they're working
on a very difficult segment.
237
00:37:59,610 --> 00:38:01,362
The audience may not know
238
00:38:01,446 --> 00:38:05,074
how difficult getting a piece of animation
a certain way might be,
239
00:38:05,158 --> 00:38:09,203
but they all know the sweat that goes into it.
240
00:38:09,287 --> 00:38:13,749
I love that last scene and I love that we're able
to end with Edward's theme again.
241
00:38:13,833 --> 00:38:14,709
Vincent Price
242
00:38:15,042 --> 00:38:20,381
thinking of the idea
of turning this machine into a boy.
243
00:39:44,131 --> 00:39:46,634
That smile is so wonderful.
244
00:39:47,802 --> 00:39:49,720
I just love that scene.
245
00:39:49,804 --> 00:39:52,473
It's so simple and so sweet.
246
00:39:54,976 --> 00:40:01,399
Once again, that's the element
that made this movie so special to me.
247
00:40:01,482 --> 00:40:07,863
I was used to having to take my themes
and always play them in fragments,
248
00:40:08,906 --> 00:40:15,246
except for maybe a few scenes
where I got to play it all the way through.
249
00:40:15,329 --> 00:40:17,498
It's just something you're used to.
250
00:40:17,582 --> 00:40:21,419
Very often you start a theme
and something happens in the middle.
251
00:40:21,502 --> 00:40:24,171
You switch gears,
you're not allowed to play it out.
252
00:40:24,255 --> 00:40:29,260
And here, almost every time I started a theme,
I got to play it through.
253
00:40:29,343 --> 00:40:37,184
It was so strange
how so seldom did I have to struggle
254
00:40:37,268 --> 00:40:40,563
to make a particular piece of music
fit the scene.
255
00:40:40,646 --> 00:40:43,399
I would look at it and it was very clear,
256
00:40:43,482 --> 00:40:46,861
in a scene like the etiquette lesson,
what it was going to be.
257
00:40:46,944 --> 00:40:51,616
It was going to take
that first fairy-tale theme of Edward's
258
00:40:51,699 --> 00:40:56,037
and slow it down,
play it a little more soloistically,
259
00:40:57,038 --> 00:41:02,251
give it a little bit of playfulness
to keep it very simple.
260
00:41:02,335 --> 00:41:09,467
To attempt to feel the delight that Vincent
Price's character was having with Edward
261
00:41:09,550 --> 00:41:12,136
and the childlike quality of Edward.
262
00:41:12,219 --> 00:41:17,767
But I didn't have to force anything and this
kept happening over and over in the movie.
263
00:41:17,850 --> 00:41:20,811
I would see it and I would know,
"Oh, yes, perfect."
264
00:41:20,895 --> 00:41:23,481
"That first theme, the opening theme."
265
00:41:23,564 --> 00:41:25,399
"l bet it'll work here."
266
00:41:25,483 --> 00:41:28,653
Without looking at the picture,
I'd come up with a variation
267
00:41:28,736 --> 00:41:31,864
that felt like the right feel, the right mood.
268
00:41:31,947 --> 00:41:34,700
And then, when I was happy with it,
269
00:41:34,784 --> 00:41:38,704
I would try to see
what I would have to do to adjust it,
270
00:41:38,788 --> 00:41:40,915
figuring I'm not gonna be able to play it
271
00:41:40,998 --> 00:41:45,002
or I'll have to repeat this section
and that section and that section.
272
00:41:45,086 --> 00:41:47,088
Then I'd put it up against the screen,
273
00:41:47,171 --> 00:41:50,883
because unlike the machine type of scene,
274
00:41:51,801 --> 00:41:56,389
a simple scene like the one we just saw
doesn't require the same attention to tempo,
275
00:41:56,472 --> 00:41:59,433
cos we're not catching
much of the action on the screen.
276
00:41:59,517 --> 00:42:04,897
We're playing a mood, a vibe,
not having to drive the tempo of the scene.
277
00:42:04,980 --> 00:42:09,443
So I would take that piece of music
and I'd put it up against the picture,
278
00:42:09,527 --> 00:42:15,074
happy with the piece of music,
and it would work almost perfectly.
279
00:42:16,951 --> 00:42:20,496
I don't know why that was.
It happens every now and then
280
00:42:20,579 --> 00:42:23,999
and when it does, it's such a lovely thing,
281
00:42:24,083 --> 00:42:29,922
to see that a piece of music
that you think is correct conceptually
282
00:42:30,005 --> 00:42:35,010
works almost perfectly
with the scene in its reality.
283
00:42:35,094 --> 00:42:41,892
It was part of the vibe of this whole score,
this whole film, for me,
284
00:42:41,976 --> 00:42:43,978
of not having to push,
285
00:42:46,188 --> 00:42:49,191
being able to just float along with the movie.
286
00:42:49,275 --> 00:42:52,570
To be able to pull a little here
and push a little there
287
00:42:52,653 --> 00:42:54,905
and give nudges emotionally.
288
00:42:54,989 --> 00:43:01,829
But never to have to drag us along
or push anybody musically.
289
00:43:03,789 --> 00:43:09,754
It was more just a feeling
of floating along with it
290
00:43:09,837 --> 00:43:11,839
and every scene would come up,
291
00:43:11,922 --> 00:43:16,719
and it would say exactly what it wanted to be
and what it needed to be.
292
00:43:16,802 --> 00:43:20,473
Almost every scene
was just such a pure pleasure and a joy.
293
00:43:20,556 --> 00:43:28,272
In fact, I think this is one of the very few films
I've worked on in the last 15 years
294
00:43:28,355 --> 00:43:32,693
that when I was done,
I wanted to keep writing variations.
295
00:43:32,777 --> 00:43:36,614
I was sad that it was over.
Usually I'm immensely relieved -
296
00:43:36,697 --> 00:43:41,952
no matter how happy or not I am
with my own achievements or lack thereof -
297
00:43:42,036 --> 00:43:46,373
in finishing a score, I'm always relieved,
just because of the physical effort.
298
00:43:46,457 --> 00:43:49,668
This was one where, when I'd finished,
I wished it was longer.
299
00:43:49,752 --> 00:43:53,172
I wished there was going to be
an addendum or something more.
300
00:43:53,255 --> 00:43:59,929
I wanted to do more little variations.
I think I could have kept doing it forever.
301
00:44:59,864 --> 00:45:03,284
Tim is really good at picking artists
and songs for his movies.
302
00:45:05,452 --> 00:45:11,041
It's funny how perfect I think Tom Jones
was for Edward Scissorhands,
303
00:45:11,125 --> 00:45:13,711
as well as Harry Belafonte for Beetlejuice,
304
00:45:13,794 --> 00:45:18,841
which was also really Tim's idea,
Tim's choice, and was so perfect.
305
00:45:18,924 --> 00:45:23,137
I don't know where,
along his creative process, he gets the idea.
306
00:45:27,308 --> 00:45:32,813
This is really a premonition
of a scene that's coming up soon.
307
00:45:41,238 --> 00:45:47,912
So that was a precursor to the gypsy music
that will be coming to Edward the barber.
308
00:47:38,022 --> 00:47:44,778
The next cue is one of my favourites.
It's a kind of a crazy one with three sections.
309
00:47:44,862 --> 00:47:48,699
It starts a little bit Pee-wee like
in the boutique,
310
00:47:48,782 --> 00:47:53,078
then it's going to evolve,
for reasons which I still have no idea why,
311
00:47:53,162 --> 00:47:57,166
into kind of a Spanish serenade.
312
00:47:57,249 --> 00:48:00,544
And then it bursts into gypsy music.
313
00:48:00,627 --> 00:48:06,508
I've been asked many times why I used
the gypsy motif for the hair cutting
314
00:48:06,592 --> 00:48:10,054
and I haven't a clue!
315
00:48:10,137 --> 00:48:14,641
It's not something Tim and I talked about-
"Wouldn't it be great to use gypsy music?"
316
00:48:14,725 --> 00:48:18,562
It was another one of those
spontaneous moments that I did,
317
00:48:18,645 --> 00:48:22,816
that I was absolutely sure Tim was going to
318
00:48:23,692 --> 00:48:26,987
not let me do, or hate, or not have a clue.
319
00:48:28,030 --> 00:48:34,745
And quite to the contrary, it was,
"Absolutely, let's use it, let's do it. It's great."
320
00:48:34,828 --> 00:48:39,041
So forever, Edward the barber
is Edward the gypsy.
321
00:51:46,186 --> 00:51:47,771
Ahh.
322
00:51:47,854 --> 00:51:49,856
The final cut.
323
00:51:57,531 --> 00:52:02,619
Dianne Wiest was such
a wonderful character in this movie.
324
00:52:03,912 --> 00:52:09,459
I love the way he prepares the seat
for her there, how tenderly he does that.
325
00:52:09,543 --> 00:52:15,674
I think composers often take their cues
off attitudes or looks of people or things
326
00:52:15,757 --> 00:52:19,386
that throw them in a direction
that they weren't expected to go.
327
00:52:19,469 --> 00:52:24,391
Clearly, in that last scene, it was the state of
ecstasy that the women were in, in the chair.
328
00:52:24,474 --> 00:52:29,938
There was something about that.
He was a conquistador, artist, warrior.
329
00:52:30,022 --> 00:52:33,275
In his moment of glory, he was Michelangelo.
330
00:52:33,358 --> 00:52:38,322
The women all now saw this in him,
he was oozing this quality.
331
00:52:38,405 --> 00:52:41,992
And the thing that I think
I was really responding to,
332
00:52:42,075 --> 00:52:48,498
which created that Spanish romanticism
over his hair cutting,
333
00:52:49,833 --> 00:52:54,171
was this wonderful state of ecstasy
that they all seemed to be in.
334
00:52:54,254 --> 00:52:58,342
He was really making love to them,
wasn't he?
335
00:52:58,884 --> 00:53:00,469
In an odd way I think he was.
336
00:53:00,552 --> 00:53:04,931
Or at least that's how
they seem to be perceiving it.
337
00:53:54,272 --> 00:53:57,859
And once again,
there's Edward's innocent theme,
338
00:53:57,943 --> 00:53:59,861
his theme of the heart.
339
00:53:59,945 --> 00:54:05,242
And as I mentioned before,
often they get cut off or truncated,
340
00:54:05,325 --> 00:54:09,079
but there is a case
where it was truncated intentionally.
341
00:54:09,162 --> 00:54:12,207
Once again, it just seemed
to play the perfect length,
342
00:54:12,290 --> 00:54:17,045
but we didn't want it
to complete the door shutting.
343
00:54:17,129 --> 00:54:18,922
If it shut off the music,
344
00:54:19,005 --> 00:54:25,512
it's shutting off Kim to Edward,
so that was an intentional truncation there.
345
00:56:38,228 --> 00:56:41,189
That little statement of Edward's theme
346
00:56:41,273 --> 00:56:47,487
was designed to imply that Kim, for the first
time, is feeling some tenderness towards him.
347
00:56:47,571 --> 00:56:50,824
So this is kind of a turning point for her.
348
00:56:50,907 --> 00:56:52,701
She begins defending Edward,
349
00:56:52,784 --> 00:56:56,329
and up to this point,
she's been kind of turned off by him.
350
00:57:05,672 --> 00:57:10,385
My process of composing, I think,
is kind of a strange one.
351
00:57:10,468 --> 00:57:17,434
It's probably a little strange just because
it was all something I learned while doing.
352
00:57:19,102 --> 00:57:24,774
No one ever gave me any instruction
about how to do any of this stuff really.
353
00:57:24,858 --> 00:57:27,694
I was a big fan of film music.
354
00:57:27,777 --> 00:57:29,029
I paid attention.
355
00:57:29,112 --> 00:57:34,117
I had, as well as movie star idols,
like Vincent Price and Peter Lorre
356
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:38,121
and Boris Karloff, when I was a kid,
357
00:57:38,204 --> 00:57:40,665
along with that was Bernard Herrmann.
358
00:57:40,749 --> 00:57:46,838
He was the composer who really made me
understand and appreciate film music.
359
00:57:46,921 --> 00:57:51,676
And Bernard Herrmann is still,
I think, my model, my idol,
360
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:59,059
in terms of, I believe, to me,
the best film composer of the 20th century.
361
00:58:00,268 --> 00:58:04,439
Although that would be hotly debated
and people would disagree with me,
362
00:58:04,522 --> 00:58:09,861
to me, he was the most consistently
inventive and brilliant.
363
00:58:09,944 --> 00:58:16,076
At any rate, the process
was really this kind of strange evolution.
364
00:58:18,620 --> 00:58:24,501
It started many years
before I did my first film score,
365
00:58:24,584 --> 00:58:29,506
when I began writing music
for a musical theatrical troop
366
00:58:29,589 --> 00:58:32,676
called The Mystic Knights
of the Oingo Boingo.
367
00:58:32,759 --> 00:58:37,222
And it was a kind of a ragtag ensemble
that started on the streets,
368
00:58:37,305 --> 00:58:43,061
and over the course of eight years,
got more and more ambitious.
369
00:58:43,144 --> 00:58:51,861
By the end of those eight years,
I was forced to write down my musical ideas
370
00:58:51,945 --> 00:58:57,826
and my musical ideas got more and more
complex and by the end of that period,
371
00:58:57,909 --> 00:59:06,042
I was writing the beginning of what
would become orchestral music for me.
372
00:59:06,126 --> 00:59:09,045
It's very difficult to explain.
373
00:59:09,129 --> 00:59:13,967
It was not orchestral.
It was for 11, 12 musicians instead of 80 or 90,
374
00:59:14,050 --> 00:59:20,598
but oddly the process of writing
for 10, 11, 12 different solo musicians,
375
00:59:20,682 --> 00:59:24,519
which was what
a lot of the early compositions were,
376
00:59:24,602 --> 00:59:28,648
is not astoundingly different
than writing for 60, 70, 80, 90.
377
00:59:28,732 --> 00:59:35,363
When you're writing for 90 musicians,
you're not writing 90 different parts.
378
00:59:35,447 --> 00:59:43,455
Very often, in fact, you may only be putting
12, 15, 17 parts down on a piece of paper.
379
00:59:43,538 --> 00:59:47,208
And so, those parts
are going to get broken down into sections.
380
00:59:47,292 --> 00:59:52,797
So there's a number of first violins, a number
of second violins, playing each part.
381
00:59:52,881 --> 00:59:59,053
So the difference of writing
for a dozen individual instruments,
382
00:59:59,137 --> 01:00:03,141
you're writing a dozen parts
that work together as a single composition.
383
01:00:03,224 --> 01:00:10,273
And then taking each of those parts and
having anywhere from three to 25 players
384
01:00:10,356 --> 01:00:16,279
playing each piece of music,
is not quite as big a jump as it seems.
385
01:00:16,362 --> 01:00:18,948
Still, it was terrifying beyond belief
386
01:00:19,032 --> 01:00:24,037
when I knew I was writing
that first score for 60 pieces.
387
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:30,919
I also hadn't written in a few years and had
to give myself a major, major crash course.
388
01:00:31,002 --> 01:00:37,842
I was lucky to have the encouragement
of the guitarist Steve Bartek,
389
01:00:37,926 --> 01:00:43,389
who was playing with me in the band Oingo
Boingo when I got Pee-wee's Big Adventure.
390
01:00:43,473 --> 01:00:48,269
And Steve had a little bit of experience.
391
01:00:48,895 --> 01:00:52,273
We both played
in the Mystic Knights together.
392
01:00:52,357 --> 01:00:55,735
And... so... he...
393
01:00:55,819 --> 01:01:01,491
I hired him on Pee-wee's Big Adventure,
to work and help me along,
394
01:01:01,574 --> 01:01:10,667
and he did and that was a tremendous...
security that first time out,
395
01:01:10,750 --> 01:01:14,963
cos I really had no idea what was gonna
happen as these parts got translated
396
01:01:15,046 --> 01:01:17,590
into many players instead of a single player.
397
01:01:18,716 --> 01:01:25,515
And between Pee-wee's Big Adventure
coming out, I thought, "OK, pretty good."
398
01:01:25,598 --> 01:01:28,601
And five films later, Beetlejuice,
399
01:01:28,685 --> 01:01:33,231
and five films later after that, Batman,
400
01:01:33,314 --> 01:01:37,735
and roughly five films after that
was Edward Scissorhands.
401
01:01:37,819 --> 01:01:39,445
It was kind of a joke for a while,
402
01:01:39,529 --> 01:01:44,242
the first, the fifth, the tenth and the 15th.
403
01:01:44,325 --> 01:01:49,372
In between each of Tim's every five films
being a Tim Burton film,
404
01:01:49,455 --> 01:01:55,503
I was soaking up huge amounts
of information and knowledge,
405
01:01:55,587 --> 01:01:58,506
trying to understand what worked
and what didn't work,
406
01:01:58,590 --> 01:02:02,468
what was impossible to play
and what wasn't impossible to play, for ideas.
407
01:02:02,552 --> 01:02:04,387
I haven't learnt as much as I should,
408
01:02:04,470 --> 01:02:10,059
because I still come up with music
that's semi-impossible to play.
409
01:02:10,143 --> 01:02:13,229
And I think maybe psychologically
410
01:02:13,313 --> 01:02:20,361
I enjoy that strange feeling
of putting a piece in front of an orchestra
411
01:02:20,445 --> 01:02:25,950
and the looks I get back from them,
"Oh, my God, what is this?"
412
01:02:26,034 --> 01:02:28,620
But here on Edward,
413
01:02:30,163 --> 01:02:33,958
I mentioned earlier that I was becoming
more at ease and confident.
414
01:02:34,042 --> 01:02:37,253
But there was this process
of looking at things
415
01:02:37,337 --> 01:02:40,256
and how to divide up themes,
416
01:02:40,340 --> 01:02:42,926
lay them out
and look at them like a great puzzle
417
01:02:43,009 --> 01:02:49,057
that I was... it was becoming
howl looked at a movie.
418
01:02:49,140 --> 01:02:54,395
And each of these pieces of music
began to become coloured pieces of puzzles.
419
01:02:54,479 --> 01:02:56,773
They were either the blue, red or green piece,
420
01:02:56,856 --> 01:03:00,234
but they were parts of pieces
relating to different themes.
421
01:03:00,318 --> 01:03:02,946
And they all had to fit together.
422
01:03:03,029 --> 01:03:05,198
Now, I know that sounds pretty insane.
423
01:03:05,281 --> 01:03:07,784
It's incredibly difficult to describe,
424
01:03:07,867 --> 01:03:12,747
but it is rather like setting out all the pieces
in a huge jigsaw puzzle,
425
01:03:12,830 --> 01:03:17,043
and understanding
what each of the different colour groups
426
01:03:17,126 --> 01:03:18,586
are going to do for the movie.
427
01:03:18,670 --> 01:03:21,965
And then breaking them down
into all these different shapes,
428
01:03:22,048 --> 01:03:24,842
knowing not quite
how they're going to fit together,
429
01:03:24,926 --> 01:03:26,844
but you've got all the pieces laid out
430
01:03:26,928 --> 01:03:28,721
in a way that's going to make sense.
431
01:03:28,805 --> 01:03:31,975
So when you need to draw
from one colour or the other colour,
432
01:03:32,058 --> 01:03:35,812
you know exactly where to go,
they're right there at my fingertips.
433
01:03:35,895 --> 01:03:38,606
And what I'm going to do with them,
I don't know,
434
01:03:38,690 --> 01:03:41,734
but I know where I need to find
everything I'm looking for.
435
01:03:41,818 --> 01:03:46,990
Now, if you want to have me committed,
locked away, go ahead.
436
01:06:30,111 --> 01:06:34,615
The fun here is taking earlier themes
and twisting them around.
437
01:06:34,699 --> 01:06:39,036
You may have noticed,
as Edward was walking out the door there,
438
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:46,836
that we were taking the storybook theme
and kind of twisting it into a darker sense.
439
01:06:48,546 --> 01:06:52,008
That sensibility now is going to
440
01:06:52,091 --> 01:06:55,761
kind of carry through
much of the rest of the score,
441
01:06:55,845 --> 01:07:00,558
now that we're in the third act
and the tide is turning against Edward.
442
01:07:00,641 --> 01:07:03,853
The same themes
that were innocent and tender
443
01:07:03,936 --> 01:07:08,691
are now going to start appearing
as I'm grabbing for these pieces,
444
01:07:08,774 --> 01:07:11,068
mixing them up and inverting them,
445
01:07:11,152 --> 01:07:14,655
sometimes twisting them around
or even turning them inside out.
446
01:07:14,739 --> 01:07:19,243
But always trying to keep
a melodic thread through all the music.
447
01:07:19,327 --> 01:07:21,037
Even though it's going to start
448
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:28,753
breaking down into more dramatic,
sometimes melodramatic type of elements,
449
01:07:28,836 --> 01:07:31,589
I still have to keep
the same melodic threads going,
450
01:07:31,672 --> 01:07:34,050
even if it's subliminal.
451
01:07:34,133 --> 01:07:38,888
I think that's part of carrying us
through a story like this.
452
01:07:38,971 --> 01:07:41,766
The tone and the attitude is gonna change.
453
01:07:41,849 --> 01:07:47,605
But some way or another, the melodic threads
are gonna keep joining together.
454
01:07:47,688 --> 01:07:53,069
And in that way, music and film
becomes kind of a knitting element.
455
01:07:53,152 --> 01:07:55,905
It knits together, it ties together.
456
01:07:55,988 --> 01:07:57,907
I've often used that analogy,
457
01:07:57,990 --> 01:08:03,913
cos a film score is a little bit
like a tapestry, weaving process,
458
01:08:03,996 --> 01:08:09,085
where you're gluing things, you're weaving
things, you're tying things together,
459
01:08:09,168 --> 01:08:14,006
and adding unity
where there wasn't with the melody.
460
01:09:26,037 --> 01:09:30,082
So now, even suburbia
is taking on a sadder, a darker quality,
461
01:09:30,166 --> 01:09:34,337
as Edward's world
is turning upside down on him.
462
01:09:34,420 --> 01:09:38,007
And, as I was explaining before,
463
01:09:38,090 --> 01:09:44,930
it's keeping that thread always going
in our minds, even if it's subliminal.
464
01:09:45,014 --> 01:09:50,644
Edward's story, Edward's element,
his part in it, always being alive.
465
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:56,942
It's one of the areas that music
helps so much, or can help so much.
466
01:11:49,263 --> 01:11:54,310
I guess if one ever had any idea
while they were doing a piece of work
467
01:11:54,393 --> 01:12:01,317
what or how it might carry into the future,
it would probably be a terrible thing.
468
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:03,235
I certainly never had any idea
469
01:12:03,235 --> 01:12:06,322
when I was writing the music
to Edward Scissorhands
470
01:12:06,405 --> 01:12:11,785
that it was going to be imitated
and copied as much as it was.
471
01:12:11,869 --> 01:12:14,121
Of all the works that I've done,
472
01:12:14,205 --> 01:12:19,126
this, more than practically
all the rest of them combined.
473
01:12:19,210 --> 01:12:25,382
If I'd have known that, it probably would have
scared me and affected how I was doing it.
474
01:12:25,466 --> 01:12:29,929
It never occurred to me
that this little cult, funny thing that I enjoyed
475
01:12:30,012 --> 01:12:33,557
was going to keep reappearing year after year.
476
01:12:33,641 --> 01:12:36,143
There's one or two films per year since then,
477
01:12:36,227 --> 01:12:38,521
even last year and the year before,
478
01:12:38,604 --> 01:12:43,859
where variations on Edward's themes
keep popping up in film scores.
479
01:12:43,943 --> 01:12:46,153
It's a joke between me and certain friends.
480
01:12:46,237 --> 01:12:50,658
I'll get a call and they'll say,
"Oh, Edward's back."
481
01:12:51,951 --> 01:12:54,912
We'll listen to the score and there it is.
482
01:12:54,995 --> 01:13:01,752
I guess that's a form of flattery,
but it's a very weird feeling.
483
01:13:01,835 --> 01:13:06,257
Worse than that, or odder than that
I should say, is television commercials,
484
01:13:06,340 --> 01:13:09,718
which has been almost a constant thing
since Edward came out.
485
01:13:09,802 --> 01:13:11,971
So if I'd have only known
486
01:13:12,054 --> 01:13:16,725
that I was going to influence
television commercials in the future,
487
01:13:16,809 --> 01:13:18,602
I probably would have...
488
01:13:18,686 --> 01:13:20,688
What would I have done? I don't know.
489
01:13:20,771 --> 01:13:27,403
Maybe I would have moved to a country
far away and taken on a different name.
490
01:13:27,486 --> 01:13:29,071
I don't know what I'd have done,
491
01:13:29,154 --> 01:13:34,285
but it would have been
a very disconcerting thought for sure.
492
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:41,834
Again, I'm not trying to say that in a way
that implies that I did such a good thing.
493
01:13:42,585 --> 01:13:46,589
It's just one of those things that startles me,
494
01:13:46,672 --> 01:13:50,342
and always did, in Tim's movies,
for some reason, more than others.
495
01:13:50,426 --> 01:13:54,179
Pee-wee's Big Adventure I heard reiterated...
496
01:13:54,263 --> 01:14:00,436
Pee-wee's Big Adventure I heard reiterated
many times and then Beetlejuice again.
497
01:14:00,519 --> 01:14:07,067
But nothing like Edward Scissorhands,
that ten years after would still be appearing
498
01:14:07,151 --> 01:14:11,071
in such odd places
that I would never expect it.
499
01:14:43,395 --> 01:14:46,940
But I guess
that's the funny thing about film music.
500
01:14:47,024 --> 01:14:53,155
You don't know who's going to notice it, or
if it's going to come and evaporate in the air
501
01:14:53,238 --> 01:15:00,537
as quickly as a blink of the eye,
which happens so many times,
502
01:15:00,621 --> 01:15:06,001
or if they're going to stick around
and last for decades.
503
01:15:06,085 --> 01:15:08,671
It's all so incredibly random,
504
01:15:10,923 --> 01:15:14,593
especially because the ones that stick around
505
01:15:14,677 --> 01:15:18,847
often aren't the ones that one would imagine.
506
01:15:18,931 --> 01:15:21,266
It's never what you think it is at the time.
507
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:23,310
This next cue with the ice dance
508
01:15:23,435 --> 01:15:28,232
was really always
one of the major focuses of the score.
509
01:15:28,315 --> 01:15:33,028
Early on I knew that it was going to define
how I would play the beginning of the movie
510
01:15:33,112 --> 01:15:35,864
and how I would play the end of the movie.
511
01:15:35,948 --> 01:15:43,706
It's also a cue that, for many people, I think
kind of epitomises the heart of the score.
512
01:15:45,124 --> 01:15:50,129
And it was a big challenge for me.
513
01:15:50,462 --> 01:15:54,299
I kind of felt that was a big scene
that was really important
514
01:15:54,383 --> 01:15:58,053
and I took quite a few passes at it, actually.
515
01:18:50,100 --> 01:18:51,977
Since I wrote this sequentially,
516
01:18:52,060 --> 01:18:54,605
I was relieved
that I had this next cue coming up,
517
01:18:54,688 --> 01:18:59,651
cos I was starting to write these long,
drawn-out cues that were very dark.
518
01:18:59,735 --> 01:19:02,696
And it was coming to a rampage.
519
01:19:02,779 --> 01:19:04,031
What's more fun than that?
520
01:19:51,745 --> 01:19:56,041
That was an original composition
by the actress, by the way.
521
01:19:56,124 --> 01:20:00,379
It's a lovely piece of music,
but I didn't write it.
522
01:20:26,655 --> 01:20:31,952
Now, I believe there's a number of cues
which are going to kind of overlap.
523
01:20:32,035 --> 01:20:36,957
Much of the score tends to do that
around this section of the movie,
524
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:40,877
which of course presents its own challenges.
525
01:22:24,689 --> 01:22:27,859
Often the quiet cues
are really the hardest ones to write.
526
01:22:27,943 --> 01:22:33,031
They're under dialogue and have to stay out
of the way, but they have to bring a tone to it
527
01:22:33,115 --> 01:22:39,704
and that's actually a much more difficult
type of scene to write than a rampage.
528
01:27:18,775 --> 01:27:21,569
That's definitely a favourite sequence of mine.
529
01:27:21,653 --> 01:27:26,991
The tenderness between Kim and Edward
and the variations.
530
01:27:28,368 --> 01:27:33,456
What I was able to do with the theme around
the two of them and their tender moment
531
01:27:33,540 --> 01:27:38,253
was actually probably my greatest challenge
in the entire score.
532
01:27:38,336 --> 01:27:39,796
Keeping it sweet and light,
533
01:27:39,879 --> 01:27:42,590
the innocence and romanticism
mixed together,
534
01:27:42,674 --> 01:27:47,178
working into the death
of Vincent Price's character.
535
01:30:30,049 --> 01:30:33,261
These last few sequences were so tricky.
536
01:30:33,344 --> 01:30:39,601
The death of Vincent Price's character and
also when Edward saves Kim's little brother.
537
01:30:39,684 --> 01:30:43,605
The music had to take us in a different
direction than what we were seeing.
538
01:30:43,688 --> 01:30:50,278
It was too easy to interpret that he might be
hurting Vincent Price when he cuts his face,
539
01:30:50,361 --> 01:30:54,282
or that he might be hurting the boy,
which he's not doing.
540
01:30:54,365 --> 01:30:57,368
And the music had to play
away from that direction,
541
01:30:57,452 --> 01:31:01,080
to help the audience understand
that he meant no harm,
542
01:31:01,164 --> 01:31:06,210
that when he touched Vincent's cheek,
it's out of affection, even though he cuts him.
543
01:31:06,294 --> 01:31:13,217
And when he's over the little boy, he's not
trying to hurt him, he's trying to help him.
544
01:31:13,301 --> 01:31:15,762
We had concerns
we were addressing in the music
545
01:31:15,845 --> 01:31:18,890
which hopefully helped a little bit.
546
01:31:18,973 --> 01:31:21,309
One of my shortcomings as a composer
547
01:31:21,392 --> 01:31:27,982
is that I tend to almost relate too much
and get too involved in a weird way
548
01:31:28,066 --> 01:31:30,568
when I'm scoring the music in a movie.
549
01:31:30,652 --> 01:31:35,156
And my own mood tends to actually follow
the direction of what I'm writing.
550
01:31:35,239 --> 01:31:38,201
I know, during the whole last act
of this movie,
551
01:31:38,284 --> 01:31:42,830
I got in a very weird, dark mood
which I couldn't shake.
552
01:37:09,240 --> 01:37:15,204
I used to get all emotional when I was writing
that whole segment and leading into this.
553
01:37:15,287 --> 01:37:16,789
I feel silly saying it,
554
01:37:16,872 --> 01:37:22,128
but movies can make me mushy
when I'm working on them.
555
01:37:26,924 --> 01:37:29,719
This one definitely mushed me up.
556
01:38:23,481 --> 01:38:29,820
I'll really be forever grateful that I was
able to write the score to this movie.