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♪ ♪
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(projector clicking)
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jenna wortham:
The 1990s were a golden era
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for the walt disney company.
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The little mermaid
revived the company
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from the edge of bankruptcy.
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Beauty and the beast earned
a best picture nomination.
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And the lion king broke
box office records worldwide.
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(helicopter blades whirring)
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but the reality just miles away
was no fairy tale.
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In 1992, a state jury acquitted
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four lapd officers
on almost all charges
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in the beating
of rodney g. King.
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The response was anger.
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Fire, chaos,
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massive citywide destruction.
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It was a pivotal moment
for black culture in the '90s.
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But it's a little-known fact
that another cultural milestone
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emerged from that fateful day.
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(projector clicking)
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it's a story so unbelievable,
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it could only happen
in hollywood.
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How did this young,
black, unassuming animator
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from east atlanta wind up
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as the ceo of disney
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at the company's most powerful
moment in time?
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♪ ♪
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-woman: Okay, rolling.
-Man: Speed.
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Evelyn:
Believe it or not,
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we named him after tom jones.
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-♪ ♪
-(grunts)
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yeah!
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Evelyn: His father
used to play tom jones.
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That's how he first courted me.
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He would do a little dance
and we would laugh.
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♪ I got to tell you a story ♪
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♪ every man ought to know... ♪
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usually, the boys
in ronald's family
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was named after their fathers,
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but when we had our boy,
we knew that
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he was gonna be different,
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so we had to do something
different.
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We had to name him thomas.
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T loved cartoons
something crazy.
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I mean, he was always drawing
on his desk, uh,
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in, uh, in the margins of
his notebook, in the textbooks,
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all on the walls, man.
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He just drove
our teachers crazy.
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He was obsessed with this
one cat named, um, blasto boy?
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No, no, no, astro boy.
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♪ ♪
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yeah, yeah, I used to
watch it with him,
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and I remember thinking...
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This is kind of boring.
(laughs)
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but thomas loved it, man.
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He drew... He drew
that dude everywhere.
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One time, he asked me, he said,
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"what if astro boy
came here and saved us?"
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I said, "saved us from what?"
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and he just kind of shrugged
and said, "everything."
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I mean, what kind
of eight-year-old
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is thinking like that,
you know?
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I mean, I think he was scared.
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He wasn't no punk,
I'm just saying, I don't
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think he ever understood
why the world was so unfair.
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And where we were growing up...
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It was, like,
unfair unfair, you know?
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I mean, you could be
sitting at home watching
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a program with white folks
with nice houses.
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We couldn't even
ride ours bikes outside,
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cause niggas
will take it from you.
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Straight to your face,
they do not care. Crime?
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What, so? They will
ride your bike in front
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of your house the next day.
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Yeah, unfair.
(chuckles)
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evelyn:
The boys picked on him.
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He would come home
sometimes with pages
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torn out of
his little sketchbook.
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Philip:
Yeah, we would call him white.
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We was just messing with him.
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Um, I think he was
just trying to fit in,
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but he wasn't really like us,
you know?
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And the kids
would call him on it.
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I mean, he just wanted to draw,
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and he didn't understand why
that wasn't "cool," you know?
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I mean, niggas will
make fun of you for anything,
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and I don't think
thomas was built to take it.
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Evelyn:
I told him, "son,
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one day, ain't none of this
gonna even matter."
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♪ ♪
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♪ ♪
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jenna: In 1987, thomas left
east atlanta to attend
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savannah college
of art and design, or scad.
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It was here that thomas's
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creative dreams
began to take shape.
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Mark dillard:
We didn't have a lot of black
students in the program then.
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Thomas showed a lot of promise.
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In his application,
he wrote about how he wanted
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to work at disney one day.
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We usually laugh
at that sort of thing.
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Everybody says that, you know?
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But with his application,
he sent a little flip-book.
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Can you see this?
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I mean, he had the sensibility
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and the wit
of a true disney animator.
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Art babbitt was a big name
at disney animation for a time.
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As an animator
in the '30s and '40s,
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he racked up a lot of credits,
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and enemies,
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but he was most well-known for
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developing
the character of goofy.
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He came to scad, and he spoke.
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Thomas really gravitated to him.
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He became obsessed,
and he really glommed
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on to babbitt's article
"analysis of the goof."
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art describes goofy.
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He says, "think of
the goof as a composite
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"of an everlasting optimist,
a gullible good samaritan,
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"a half-wit, a shiftless,
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"good-natured colored boy,
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"and a hick.
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"he is loose-jointed
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"and gangly, but not rubbery.
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"he can move fast if he has to,
but would rather
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"avoid overexertion,
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"so he takes what seems
the easiest way.
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"he is a philosopher of
the barber shop variety.
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"no matter what happens,
he accepts it finally
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as being for the best
or at least amusing."
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thomas used this text
as the center of a piece
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of a series he called
"goofy, please."
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after class one day, he
showed me some of these pieces,
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and I looked at it,
and I looked at him,
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and I thought,
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"this kid is from
another universe,
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like, a whole nother planet."
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thomas would be like,
"hey, come on,
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you know goofy's a (bleep)."
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(laughs):
And we would just laugh, man.
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We just thought
that was so funny.
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It was clear that
thomas was very talented.
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For his thesis,
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he made this
incredible short film.
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♪ well, I'd like to visit
the moon ♪
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♪ on a rocket ship
high in the air... ♪
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he had little screenings;
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teachers would come,
and students.
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The film felt so deep.
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I-I think it was somehow
connected to him
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losing his father
in freshman year.
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♪ I would miss
all the places and... ♪
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philip:
Uncle ronnie dying
changed him, man.
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Thomas was in his
freshman year at scad,
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and I didn't think he
was going to make it, but, uh,
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once we buried
my uncle ronnie, man,
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he, uh-- it's like
his brain exploded.
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Mark:
Depending on who saw it
and when they saw it,
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it was either
the funniest thing,
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or the saddest thing
you'd ever seen.
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That short was what
got him into disney.
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No question.
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♪ ♪
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jenna:
Washington comes to disney
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right out of college,
fresh from scad.
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You know, he's there,
the company's doing pretty well,
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they've just had their hit
with the little mermaid.
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Leonard trussel:
One of the things that-that
I'm glad that I was
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able to be part of
was that, um,
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disney instituted this
diversity program.
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We knew that we needed to
bring in younger voices
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from a diversified
point of view,
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and that would actually, uh,
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strengthen our company.
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And thomas was one
of the first of those.
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Jenna: Thomas started out at
disney as an assistant animator
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on ducktales the movie:
Treasure of the lost lamp.
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It wasn't necessarily
creative work,
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but things are fine, you know.
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It's not really moving
as fast as he wants things
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to be moving,
but he's doing all right.
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And then the uprisings happened.
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(helicopter blades whirring)
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(sirens wailing)
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evelyn:
When the shooting happened,
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and then the riots,
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thomas was working in l.A.
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He called me
and he said, "mama,
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I just want to go down there."
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and I told him,
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"son, you need to riot
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with that pen and paper."
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he was shook.
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I could see it in him,
he was shook.
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He actually called me
one time and was like,
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"if I ever get the chance
to do a movie around here,
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I'm not holding back."
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-(sirens wailing)
-(protestors shouting)
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(helicopter passing)
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♪ ♪
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jenna:
While south central los angeles
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was engulfed in flames,
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15 miles north in burbank,
another fire was about to erupt.
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What happened next is
one of the most unlikely
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and unprecedented events in the
history of corporate america.
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After the success
of beauty and the beast,
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michael eisner put
dennis stephenson in charge
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while he went on a sabbatical.
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But two weeks into the job,
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stephenson had
a health emergency
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and passed shortly
thereafter...
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...Leaving the job
open once more.
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We all voted for this guy
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named tom washington.
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But we didn't realize
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that tom's first name
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was actually thompson,
not thomas.
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Thomas washington
was an animator.
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People were pretty upset
when they found out
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they voted for the wrong man.
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It felt like an honest mistake
that we
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could sweep under the rug, but
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after beauty and the beast,
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there were a lot of eyes on us.
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We tried to handle it smoothly,
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but thomas held our feet
to the fire.
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Jenna: So, because of this,
you know, "behind closed door,
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boys' club" handshake,
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disney is now in radical
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new territory
but entirely by default.
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So you have this young animator,
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this young, black animator
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who comes into this company,
all of a sudden has a ton
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of power at a hugely
culturally significant moment,
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and he wants
to do something with it.
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He wants to prove himself.
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Philip:
This cat was on my line
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with some foolishness,
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talking about
he's the ceo of disney.
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I was, I was crying laughing.
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(laughs)
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and then, you know,
he took me to his office
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and people was,
like, greeting him.
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First day,
he took us all into a room
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that we call the stock room,
which is where everybody
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hangs out before
we get to work.
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And he shows us
a frame of animation
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of goofy in mickey's trailer,
and, uh,
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mickey has pluto on a leash.
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And it gets real quiet,
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and, uh, washington goes,
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"why is goofy
letting mickey do that?"
252
00:13:06,603 --> 00:13:08,369
he's a very fine dog, sir.
253
00:13:08,472 --> 00:13:10,872
And, you know, we're all
confused, we're just looking
254
00:13:10,974 --> 00:13:14,108
at each other, and charlie goes,
"what do you mean, sir?"
255
00:13:14,211 --> 00:13:18,313
and washington goes,
"goofy's a dog,
256
00:13:18,415 --> 00:13:22,383
"and pluto's a dog,
so why is he letting mickey
257
00:13:22,486 --> 00:13:24,686
do that to one of his own?"
258
00:13:26,156 --> 00:13:29,524
yeah, t had them
running scared from day one.
259
00:13:29,626 --> 00:13:33,895
I was, uh, fresh-faced
and wild-eyed.
260
00:13:33,997 --> 00:13:38,766
I was an inbetweener
for about three years,
261
00:13:38,869 --> 00:13:40,468
didn't see much movement.
262
00:13:42,539 --> 00:13:46,007
An inbetweener was usually
for animators just starting out.
263
00:13:46,109 --> 00:13:50,078
So, say a character slaps
somebody across the face.
264
00:13:50,180 --> 00:13:53,715
They would get a senior
artist to do the fun part,
265
00:13:53,817 --> 00:13:59,053
drawing the first and the last
frame that define the movement.
266
00:13:59,155 --> 00:14:03,791
The inbetweener draws all the
many little frames in between.
267
00:14:05,295 --> 00:14:07,161
I was stuck as an inbetweener
268
00:14:07,264 --> 00:14:09,030
for years and years,
269
00:14:09,132 --> 00:14:11,399
but as soon as thomas came in,
he said,
270
00:14:11,501 --> 00:14:14,068
"I want you to be
lead director on this."
271
00:14:15,171 --> 00:14:18,673
and I said, "on what?"
and he said,
272
00:14:18,775 --> 00:14:21,709
"the blackest movie
of all time."
273
00:14:24,414 --> 00:14:25,680
-♪ check, check, uh ♪
-♪ get it, get, get... ♪
274
00:14:25,782 --> 00:14:29,384
he said he wanted to make a
movie about black fatherhood.
275
00:14:29,486 --> 00:14:31,352
♪ get, get, get it... ♪
276
00:14:31,454 --> 00:14:33,988
man, he wanted to tackle
everything in this movie.
277
00:14:34,090 --> 00:14:37,892
Segregation, single parenting,
278
00:14:37,994 --> 00:14:40,128
low-income career trajectories,
279
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:43,731
fear of gang violence,
incarceration,
280
00:14:43,833 --> 00:14:47,902
the amount of cheese
in african-american diets.
281
00:14:48,004 --> 00:14:52,440
He wanted to make a movie that
covered all this and more...
282
00:14:52,542 --> 00:14:55,743
And he said he knew
the perfect character to do it.
283
00:14:55,845 --> 00:14:57,679
♪ swingin' while I'm singin' ♪
284
00:14:57,781 --> 00:14:59,080
♪ hey! ♪
285
00:14:59,182 --> 00:15:03,618
thomas, man,
he knew that people thought
286
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,254
goofy was dumb,
but he wanted to show
287
00:15:06,356 --> 00:15:09,490
the systemic factors
that goofy was dealing with.
288
00:15:09,593 --> 00:15:12,493
A shitty job, angry kid,
289
00:15:12,596 --> 00:15:15,530
and embarrassed
by his lack of influence.
290
00:15:16,666 --> 00:15:21,803
Man, it was wild how deep
he leaned in to all this,
291
00:15:21,905 --> 00:15:23,972
'cause, uh, as far as I knew,
292
00:15:24,074 --> 00:15:27,775
thomas had a really solid
homelife.
293
00:15:27,877 --> 00:15:30,812
It's a vacation with me
and my best buddy.
294
00:15:30,914 --> 00:15:32,080
Oh, donald duck?
295
00:15:32,182 --> 00:15:34,616
No, silly, with you!
296
00:15:34,718 --> 00:15:36,384
♪ ♪
297
00:15:39,389 --> 00:15:41,189
♪ ♪
298
00:15:43,059 --> 00:15:46,594
anna speilman: Thomas and I,
we were married young.
299
00:15:46,696 --> 00:15:49,464
We didn't have much,
300
00:15:49,566 --> 00:15:52,867
and, um, you know what, he never
301
00:15:52,969 --> 00:15:56,471
let that get
in the way of us, though.
302
00:15:56,573 --> 00:15:58,039
If there was something
we couldn't afford,
303
00:15:58,141 --> 00:16:00,141
he would just draw it.
304
00:16:00,243 --> 00:16:03,411
You know,
you'd wake up and I would
305
00:16:03,513 --> 00:16:08,282
see anything from a coffee maker
to a solid-gold jet
306
00:16:08,385 --> 00:16:11,953
on the refrigerator
in the morning.
307
00:16:12,055 --> 00:16:13,554
That was thomas.
308
00:16:14,691 --> 00:16:18,760
We-we had our son maxwell
pretty early.
309
00:16:18,862 --> 00:16:20,828
He and thomas,
they were inseparable.
310
00:16:20,930 --> 00:16:22,864
He did everything for that boy.
311
00:16:22,966 --> 00:16:25,933
Oh, my god, look at this...
312
00:16:26,036 --> 00:16:27,702
Oh, look at this!
313
00:16:27,804 --> 00:16:30,838
Thomas kept saying that
314
00:16:30,940 --> 00:16:33,174
a goofy movie was for him.
315
00:16:35,412 --> 00:16:39,080
He'd say, "if I'm not here,
you can show him this."
316
00:16:39,182 --> 00:16:42,984
I was too scared to ask him
what he meant by that.
317
00:16:43,086 --> 00:16:46,354
To give you a little context,
when a goofy movie came out,
318
00:16:46,456 --> 00:16:49,757
black masculinity in the media
was in a really weird place.
319
00:16:49,859 --> 00:16:54,162
-Hello, I'm blaine edwards.
-And I'm antoine merriweather!
320
00:16:54,264 --> 00:16:56,497
And welcome to men on films.
321
00:16:56,599 --> 00:16:58,366
The show that looks at movies...
322
00:16:58,468 --> 00:17:00,668
...From a male point of view.
323
00:17:00,770 --> 00:17:03,705
Jenna: So on one hand,
you've got men doing, kind of
324
00:17:03,807 --> 00:17:06,741
"faux queer" comedy,
and on the other end
325
00:17:06,843 --> 00:17:10,011
of the spectrum, you've got
these hypermasculine portrayals.
326
00:17:12,682 --> 00:17:15,349
Am I my brother's keeper?
327
00:17:17,353 --> 00:17:19,087
Yes, I am.
328
00:17:21,658 --> 00:17:24,025
And, by contrast, goofy
329
00:17:24,127 --> 00:17:27,161
is a nuanced portrayal
of a black man
330
00:17:27,263 --> 00:17:30,264
whose priority is his family.
331
00:17:30,366 --> 00:17:33,401
-What?
-Nothin'.
332
00:17:33,503 --> 00:17:36,637
Goofy really put forward
the philosophy that...
333
00:17:36,740 --> 00:17:41,709
Just love your children for
who they are and accept them,
334
00:17:41,811 --> 00:17:43,478
and deal with the pain
that the world
335
00:17:43,580 --> 00:17:44,846
is not going to love them
like you do.
336
00:17:47,684 --> 00:17:49,484
♪ ♪
337
00:17:53,523 --> 00:17:57,492
I think in the movie,
dad laid in a lot of things.
338
00:17:57,594 --> 00:18:00,762
I-I notice it more now
than I did then.
339
00:18:00,864 --> 00:18:02,563
♪ if I could make you
stop and take a look ♪
340
00:18:02,665 --> 00:18:04,132
♪ at me instead of just... ♪
341
00:18:04,234 --> 00:18:08,469
maxwell: In the beginning,
max sings a song,
342
00:18:08,571 --> 00:18:12,273
dunks a basketball, and then
is cheered on by his peers.
343
00:18:13,810 --> 00:18:15,977
I think my dad
was making a comment
344
00:18:16,079 --> 00:18:17,411
on black exceptionalism
345
00:18:17,514 --> 00:18:20,581
and how some people believe
346
00:18:20,683 --> 00:18:25,119
that performative assimilation
is the best way to get by.
347
00:18:25,221 --> 00:18:29,657
My dad wanted to prove those
limitations were just that,
348
00:18:29,759 --> 00:18:33,227
limits put on us by outsiders.
349
00:18:33,329 --> 00:18:37,098
That's why he made it
a fishing trip.
350
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,834
It's the same one
we used to take. (chuckles)
351
00:18:41,738 --> 00:18:44,038
frank: The trip was
supposed to start out
352
00:18:44,140 --> 00:18:46,841
as sort of like a freedom ride.
353
00:18:46,943 --> 00:18:49,177
And the map,
which is central to the plot
354
00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:54,215
of the film and also represented
goofy's trust in his son max,
355
00:18:54,317 --> 00:18:56,717
was supposed to
remind the viewer
356
00:18:56,820 --> 00:18:59,520
of the green book
and how black travelers
357
00:18:59,622 --> 00:19:01,889
had to use it
to advance their way
358
00:19:01,991 --> 00:19:06,160
through the jim crow south
during the '30s and the '40s.
359
00:19:06,262 --> 00:19:09,964
A lot of the film had
deeper meanings, and word
360
00:19:10,066 --> 00:19:14,836
got around that it meant
a lot more in thomas's eyes.
361
00:19:14,938 --> 00:19:18,206
Maxwell: Dad wanted every black
person in america to feel like
362
00:19:18,308 --> 00:19:23,211
they were just a road trip away
from being part of a movement.
363
00:19:23,313 --> 00:19:26,814
Even if their kids
didn't understand the stakes.
364
00:19:26,916 --> 00:19:31,052
It was about destiny
and how our children,
365
00:19:31,154 --> 00:19:33,821
our future,
get to draw our path.
366
00:19:33,923 --> 00:19:36,023
I want to get us
to doing something
367
00:19:36,125 --> 00:19:37,391
we've never done before.
368
00:19:37,493 --> 00:19:39,227
We have never truly drawn
369
00:19:39,329 --> 00:19:43,464
authentically black characters,
characters that act...
370
00:19:48,771 --> 00:19:51,372
Now, see,
this is what I'm talking about.
371
00:19:51,474 --> 00:19:54,408
This is what I'm talking about.
372
00:19:54,510 --> 00:19:57,745
In order to draw
authentically black characters,
373
00:19:57,847 --> 00:20:00,047
one has to know black people.
374
00:20:00,149 --> 00:20:04,452
Okay? Now,
tom went out on assignment.
375
00:20:04,554 --> 00:20:08,289
Researched, hung out,
went to a couple black cookouts.
376
00:20:08,391 --> 00:20:12,526
Said the wrong thing,
got his ass beat, but now, now?
377
00:20:12,629 --> 00:20:15,229
He's more aware,
he's more knowledgeable
378
00:20:15,331 --> 00:20:17,164
of how to draw. Okay?
379
00:20:17,267 --> 00:20:20,368
Thomas tried to pull back
and be more
380
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:23,905
subtle with his message,
uh, when the complaints started,
381
00:20:24,007 --> 00:20:26,440
and we were getting complaints
from everywhere.
382
00:20:26,542 --> 00:20:31,746
But there was
nothing subtle about thomas.
383
00:20:31,848 --> 00:20:34,749
At one point, he said he
didn't want mickey in the movie.
384
00:20:34,851 --> 00:20:36,918
And, um, I kept saying,
385
00:20:37,020 --> 00:20:39,453
"but it's disney.
What are you talking about?"
386
00:20:39,555 --> 00:20:42,256
I can remember
thomas ranting in his office,
387
00:20:42,358 --> 00:20:44,659
"they're trying to make me
put this white boy in my movie."
388
00:20:44,761 --> 00:20:48,429
and I'm thinking,
"he's a mouse."
389
00:20:48,531 --> 00:20:50,631
he told me from the beginning,
390
00:20:50,733 --> 00:20:53,601
"I'm not here for a long time,
I'm here for a good time."
391
00:20:53,703 --> 00:20:56,938
uh, he knew
he was going to get fired,
392
00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,141
but the "when" of it
was fun for him.
393
00:21:00,243 --> 00:21:01,809
It was like a game.
394
00:21:01,911 --> 00:21:07,281
We had 15, 16,
sometimes 18-hour days.
395
00:21:07,383 --> 00:21:11,285
And, uh, he would be screaming,
"we don't dance like that."
396
00:21:11,387 --> 00:21:15,156
and he would
bring his friend's kids in
397
00:21:15,258 --> 00:21:17,959
and, uh,
they would moonwalk and,
398
00:21:18,061 --> 00:21:21,429
and, you know, do all, like,
you know, this stuff, you know?
399
00:21:21,497 --> 00:21:23,497
Oh, man,
I must have drawn a pair
400
00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:26,968
of gloves dapping,
I don't know, over 5,000 times?
401
00:21:27,070 --> 00:21:29,570
I just kept hearing, "that's
not a dap, that's not a dap.
402
00:21:29,672 --> 00:21:30,905
Where's the snap?"
403
00:21:31,007 --> 00:21:32,273
you see my knees?
404
00:21:32,375 --> 00:21:34,909
You see this,
see this angle of these knees?
405
00:21:35,011 --> 00:21:37,678
Draw-- draw this!
Get this down, okay?
406
00:21:37,780 --> 00:21:39,780
One time,
I just couldn't take it--
407
00:21:39,882 --> 00:21:42,483
my fingers were just bleeding--
so I went up to talk to him,
408
00:21:42,585 --> 00:21:44,986
and he was up there drinking
whiskey with robert townsend,
409
00:21:45,088 --> 00:21:48,990
and janet jackson, uh,
sinbad and adina howard.
410
00:21:49,092 --> 00:21:52,360
Well, when I poked
my head in, thomas went,
411
00:21:52,462 --> 00:21:54,028
"who ordered the white rice?"
412
00:21:54,130 --> 00:21:56,330
(scoffs)
and they all just laughed,
413
00:21:56,432 --> 00:21:59,633
and, uh, I just didn't get it.
414
00:21:59,736 --> 00:22:01,235
Brian mcknight:
Everybody used to be up there.
415
00:22:01,337 --> 00:22:05,406
Eddie murphy,
arsenio hall, kadeem hardison,
416
00:22:05,508 --> 00:22:09,377
harrison ford, it was crazy.
The parties were insane.
417
00:22:09,479 --> 00:22:12,580
Imagine disney after
the lion king.
418
00:22:12,682 --> 00:22:15,583
You got this smooth-looking
brother at the helm.
419
00:22:16,819 --> 00:22:17,818
(exhales)
420
00:22:19,155 --> 00:22:21,555
it was crazy
he even had that office.
421
00:22:21,657 --> 00:22:23,324
Everyone would go
up there and just hang
422
00:22:23,426 --> 00:22:26,327
as we plotted our overthrow
of hollywood.
423
00:22:26,429 --> 00:22:28,195
You couldn't tell us nothing.
424
00:22:28,297 --> 00:22:30,531
They had a big
musical number planned
425
00:22:30,633 --> 00:22:32,800
with bryan adams in the movie.
426
00:22:32,902 --> 00:22:36,203
And one day,
thomas asked me to come by
427
00:22:36,305 --> 00:22:38,539
and see what he's working on.
428
00:22:38,641 --> 00:22:40,674
And we're walking through,
and he stops in one
429
00:22:40,777 --> 00:22:42,576
of the rooms and plays me
some of the music.
430
00:22:42,678 --> 00:22:45,713
And I'm like,
"yeah, you know, pop ballad.
431
00:22:45,815 --> 00:22:47,281
"you know, same old, same old.
432
00:22:47,383 --> 00:22:49,950
You know, it's-it's good,
it's-it's cool."
433
00:22:50,053 --> 00:22:53,454
but he asks me,
"who do you like right now?"
434
00:22:53,556 --> 00:22:55,890
I'm like, "you know,
I-I've been listening
435
00:22:55,992 --> 00:22:57,758
to this tevin campbell."
436
00:22:57,860 --> 00:23:02,363
and from then on, it just
had to be tevin campbell.
437
00:23:02,465 --> 00:23:07,368
♪ last night I, I saw you ♪
438
00:23:07,470 --> 00:23:08,903
♪ standing ♪
439
00:23:09,005 --> 00:23:11,138
♪ and I started ♪
440
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,407
♪ started pretending ♪
441
00:23:13,509 --> 00:23:15,276
brian: Most of the cats
around there didn't
442
00:23:15,378 --> 00:23:16,944
even know who
tevin campbell was.
443
00:23:17,046 --> 00:23:21,248
For three months, a lot of them
were saying kevin campbell.
444
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:26,454
♪ can we talk, baby,
can we talk for a minute? ♪
445
00:23:26,556 --> 00:23:28,589
♪ girl, I want
to know your name ♪
446
00:23:28,691 --> 00:23:30,858
♪ I want to know your name ♪
447
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,626
sinbad:
Thomas was a cool cat.
448
00:23:32,728 --> 00:23:35,229
But the brother definitely had
a chip on his shoulder.
449
00:23:35,331 --> 00:23:37,398
He didn't like it if
you challenged his blackness.
450
00:23:40,136 --> 00:23:42,369
Frank:
I think there was
a part of thomas
451
00:23:42,472 --> 00:23:46,207
that kind of felt that
being an animator
452
00:23:46,309 --> 00:23:49,243
wasn't innately black, you know?
453
00:23:49,345 --> 00:23:52,246
And he wanted to make it black,
454
00:23:52,348 --> 00:23:53,814
he wanted to make it cool.
455
00:23:53,916 --> 00:23:57,852
He wanted to-to carve out
his own space and not feel
456
00:23:57,954 --> 00:24:01,622
that he was divorced
from his own culture, you know.
457
00:24:01,724 --> 00:24:04,992
He was loading his culture
into this stuff that
458
00:24:05,094 --> 00:24:07,628
we were doing so that
it just seemed normal
459
00:24:07,730 --> 00:24:11,198
and would seem normal
to the rest of us.
460
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:14,602
He had a lot of pressure, man--
the culture, the job itself,
461
00:24:14,704 --> 00:24:17,271
what-what he was trying to live
up to that I'm not even sure
462
00:24:17,373 --> 00:24:19,440
that he knew that he could
live up to it.
463
00:24:19,542 --> 00:24:23,177
And, uh, it had to
take a huge toll on him.
464
00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:25,346
One morning I walk in
the studio, I got my coffee,
465
00:24:25,448 --> 00:24:27,915
I'm ready to sit down,
get to busi-- business.
466
00:24:28,017 --> 00:24:31,252
And thomas like, "psst! Psst!
Come here, come here!"
467
00:24:31,354 --> 00:24:34,421
so I go over there and, uh,
he's in his cubicle,
468
00:24:34,524 --> 00:24:38,092
he got this briefcase,
he opens it up,
469
00:24:38,194 --> 00:24:39,493
there's a gun inside!
470
00:24:39,595 --> 00:24:44,031
I'm like,
"dude, what-what is this?
471
00:24:44,133 --> 00:24:45,699
What's it for?"
472
00:24:45,801 --> 00:24:50,104
and he's like,
"this is to remind me that
473
00:24:50,206 --> 00:24:52,806
they don't know
who the fuck I am."
474
00:24:52,909 --> 00:24:54,842
♪ ♪
475
00:24:58,414 --> 00:25:01,682
maxwell:
Dad kind of started to lose it.
476
00:25:01,784 --> 00:25:04,652
He would stay up all night,
talk to hisself.
477
00:25:04,754 --> 00:25:09,056
After a while, mom...
She had had enough.
478
00:25:11,427 --> 00:25:13,994
After a while,
mom couldn't take it anymore.
479
00:25:14,096 --> 00:25:16,063
He had just gotten too mean.
480
00:25:17,867 --> 00:25:20,367
Anna:
We had so much fun.
481
00:25:21,437 --> 00:25:25,239
But then, it wasn't fun anymore.
482
00:25:25,341 --> 00:25:27,875
He had been
fooling around, yeah.
483
00:25:27,977 --> 00:25:31,879
And drinking a lot,
and he got pretty mean.
484
00:25:31,981 --> 00:25:34,915
He would say some mean,
nasty things to me,
485
00:25:35,017 --> 00:25:38,252
which he never,
he had never done that before.
486
00:25:40,489 --> 00:25:42,656
I remember at one time,
maxwell tried to step in
487
00:25:42,758 --> 00:25:44,058
between his dad and I,
488
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,827
and thomas...
489
00:25:46,929 --> 00:25:50,664
Was not kind.
He kind of...
490
00:25:50,766 --> 00:25:52,866
(inhales sharply, sighs)
491
00:25:52,969 --> 00:25:55,769
he kind of raised his, um...
492
00:25:55,871 --> 00:25:59,073
He raised his fist...
493
00:25:59,175 --> 00:26:01,575
At maxwell.
494
00:26:01,677 --> 00:26:04,778
That wasn't cool,
because they-they
495
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,680
had always been so close.
496
00:26:09,552 --> 00:26:11,418
He was a...
497
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,754
He was a really good father.
498
00:26:13,856 --> 00:26:16,724
I mean, at least he tried
to be a good father.
499
00:26:16,826 --> 00:26:19,660
I kept saying, "thomas,
500
00:26:19,762 --> 00:26:22,563
"you're going to lose him,
501
00:26:22,665 --> 00:26:25,466
you're going to lose your son."
502
00:26:27,970 --> 00:26:31,538
but all he kept saying is...
(sighs)
503
00:26:31,641 --> 00:26:33,907
"but this is for him."
504
00:26:36,712 --> 00:26:39,413
frank: I knew things
were going downhill when
505
00:26:39,515 --> 00:26:41,315
thomas's wife left him.
506
00:26:41,417 --> 00:26:43,851
Sh-she had been there
from the beginning.
507
00:26:44,987 --> 00:26:47,588
And he started
sleeping in his office.
508
00:26:47,690 --> 00:26:51,425
And, um, one day,
there was a board meeting.
509
00:26:51,527 --> 00:26:56,163
All the disney heads were there,
and they started talking
510
00:26:56,265 --> 00:27:00,000
about the budget was
going a bit high on goofy.
511
00:27:00,102 --> 00:27:03,137
And one of the guys
asked thomas, he said, uh,
512
00:27:03,239 --> 00:27:05,506
"are you in control
of the budget?"
513
00:27:05,608 --> 00:27:07,474
and thomas said,
"of course I am.
514
00:27:07,576 --> 00:27:09,543
I'm goofy."
515
00:27:09,645 --> 00:27:11,145
and then,
516
00:27:11,247 --> 00:27:16,016
he did this this chilling laugh.
Like...
517
00:27:16,118 --> 00:27:19,687
(imitating goofy's laugh)
518
00:27:19,789 --> 00:27:23,324
you know, l-like goofy,
but broken.
519
00:27:24,727 --> 00:27:27,294
(voice breaking):
And it-it was terrifying, man.
520
00:27:27,396 --> 00:27:28,962
I almost started crying.
521
00:27:31,067 --> 00:27:33,667
He really thought he was goofy.
522
00:27:39,742 --> 00:27:41,709
Leonard:
The company knew he had to go,
523
00:27:41,811 --> 00:27:45,479
but legally,
he was still the ceo.
524
00:27:45,581 --> 00:27:49,283
That gentleman's
show of hands was, uh,
525
00:27:49,385 --> 00:27:53,120
surprisingly hard to go back on.
526
00:27:53,222 --> 00:27:55,689
You know, they even tried to
buy him out of his contract.
527
00:27:55,791 --> 00:27:59,493
Yeah, they offered him,
like $75,000.
528
00:27:59,595 --> 00:28:01,495
No, no.
529
00:28:01,597 --> 00:28:05,099
We offered him $75 million,
530
00:28:05,201 --> 00:28:07,501
paid out over ten years.
531
00:28:07,603 --> 00:28:12,706
Um, that's how... That's how
serious it was for us.
532
00:28:12,808 --> 00:28:14,274
I mean, he didn't take it.
533
00:28:14,377 --> 00:28:18,312
But, uh, maybe he
should have taken it, you know?
534
00:28:20,383 --> 00:28:24,051
Frank: He started
getting really paranoid.
535
00:28:24,153 --> 00:28:27,621
He'd say he was
afraid for his life,
536
00:28:27,723 --> 00:28:29,723
but he'd never say from whom.
537
00:28:31,761 --> 00:28:33,193
Chris: Suddenly, there were
a bunch of guys in bow ties
538
00:28:33,295 --> 00:28:35,262
hanging around the office.
539
00:28:35,364 --> 00:28:37,231
He introduced us
to one of them saying,
540
00:28:37,333 --> 00:28:39,733
"I want you to meet my new
head of security,
541
00:28:39,835 --> 00:28:42,736
al shaheim x."
542
00:28:42,838 --> 00:28:45,172
the thing not a lot of people
knew about,
543
00:28:45,274 --> 00:28:47,875
was thomas had
been going around town
544
00:28:47,977 --> 00:28:52,513
letting a lot of people know
how huge this was going to be,
545
00:28:52,615 --> 00:28:56,016
and he had a lot of different
black empowerment groups,
546
00:28:56,118 --> 00:29:01,221
radical movements, and just
straight-up gangs all wanting
547
00:29:01,323 --> 00:29:05,759
as much influence and subtle
shout-outs as the other.
548
00:29:05,861 --> 00:29:08,595
You know,
I think that he had made
549
00:29:08,697 --> 00:29:10,831
way too many deals at one point.
550
00:29:11,901 --> 00:29:14,802
At least, that's what...
That's what I heard.
551
00:29:14,904 --> 00:29:21,141
Truthfully, it all came down
to the end of the movie.
552
00:29:21,243 --> 00:29:23,143
Really.
553
00:29:25,748 --> 00:29:28,182
Chris:
Oh, man, the end of the movie.
554
00:29:28,284 --> 00:29:30,451
I heard he wanted goofy
and max to get pulled over
555
00:29:30,553 --> 00:29:33,053
early on and, uh, you know...
556
00:29:33,155 --> 00:29:34,188
(gunshot echoes)
557
00:29:37,326 --> 00:29:40,594
wh-why would he do that?
That makes no sense.
558
00:29:41,664 --> 00:29:44,765
Frank: That powerline concert
at the end,
559
00:29:44,867 --> 00:29:47,835
it wasn't supposed to be
all hunky-dory, dancing-dancing.
560
00:29:47,937 --> 00:29:50,471
Nah, it wasn't supposed
to be like that at all.
561
00:29:50,573 --> 00:29:52,639
(electricity crackling)
562
00:29:52,741 --> 00:29:55,843
philip:
I heard goofy was supposed
to get shot at the concert.
563
00:29:55,945 --> 00:29:58,679
You know,
a black man runs onstage
564
00:29:58,781 --> 00:30:01,148
like that at a major venue?
Come on, man.
565
00:30:01,250 --> 00:30:03,217
There's something wrong here.
566
00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:05,352
Thomas was trying
to make a statement.
567
00:30:11,894 --> 00:30:13,560
Next question, man.
568
00:30:13,662 --> 00:30:15,295
No, I don't.
569
00:30:15,397 --> 00:30:17,698
I-I've never thought
it was an accident.
570
00:30:19,134 --> 00:30:20,968
Producer:
Why not?
571
00:30:21,070 --> 00:30:23,537
Um, well...
572
00:30:24,940 --> 00:30:26,907
...Partly because of
his-his mood at the end,
573
00:30:27,009 --> 00:30:29,877
but, um, you know,
there was also the tape.
574
00:30:31,180 --> 00:30:32,546
What tape?
575
00:30:38,804 --> 00:30:42,172
Thomas:
♪ for the first time ever ♪
576
00:30:42,274 --> 00:30:45,142
♪ seeing it eye to eye ♪
577
00:30:46,979 --> 00:30:51,648
oh, I'm so sorry.
578
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:53,717
Oh, man, I...
579
00:30:53,819 --> 00:30:59,790
Ooh, I'm close, I'm-I'm close...
580
00:30:59,892 --> 00:31:01,925
I'm so close.
581
00:31:04,663 --> 00:31:06,263
(shudders)
582
00:31:11,871 --> 00:31:15,339
(breathing heavily)
583
00:31:15,441 --> 00:31:17,708
I got to finish this.
584
00:31:23,215 --> 00:31:25,549
(crying):
I got to finish it.
585
00:31:28,354 --> 00:31:32,122
Brian:
Back then, mental health wasn't
something that we talked about.
586
00:31:32,224 --> 00:31:34,758
I didn't even know
what to characterize
587
00:31:34,860 --> 00:31:38,161
what I saw him going through,
what it... What it was.
588
00:31:38,264 --> 00:31:41,031
I just knew he was going
through something, um,
589
00:31:41,133 --> 00:31:44,401
something that was very, very
difficult for him to deal with.
590
00:31:46,438 --> 00:31:49,072
This is a little hard
for me right now.
591
00:31:51,877 --> 00:31:54,411
I-I don't know why.
592
00:31:54,513 --> 00:31:59,216
When the news finally broke
that dad was officially out,
593
00:31:59,318 --> 00:32:02,753
they let him back on the lot
for one final screening
594
00:32:02,855 --> 00:32:05,255
of what they were able to
piece together behind his back.
595
00:32:05,357 --> 00:32:07,958
(projector clicking)
596
00:32:08,060 --> 00:32:09,326
he didn't know they
had been working
597
00:32:09,428 --> 00:32:10,794
on the movie without him...
598
00:32:10,896 --> 00:32:13,196
Changing and corrupting
his original vision.
599
00:32:14,433 --> 00:32:17,668
He-he didn't take the news well.
600
00:32:17,770 --> 00:32:19,469
I was at that last screening.
601
00:32:19,571 --> 00:32:22,306
It was the bigfoot stuff
that put him over the edge.
602
00:32:22,408 --> 00:32:24,942
Frank: They'd added it
without his knowledge.
603
00:32:25,044 --> 00:32:26,944
He'd wanted goofy and max
604
00:32:27,046 --> 00:32:29,479
to wander into a thrift store
605
00:32:29,581 --> 00:32:32,249
and discover
huey newton's rattan throne.
606
00:32:32,351 --> 00:32:35,719
And once they sat in it,
max would finally understand
607
00:32:35,821 --> 00:32:37,421
what goofy had been fighting
608
00:32:37,523 --> 00:32:39,790
to make him understand
all along.
609
00:32:39,892 --> 00:32:44,628
Instead, they took out
the thrift store and the throne
610
00:32:44,730 --> 00:32:47,764
and put in that bigfoot bit.
611
00:32:47,866 --> 00:32:50,734
It's like they were saying,
"what you were after,
612
00:32:50,836 --> 00:32:54,438
"your message,
it's a fantasy as elusive
613
00:32:54,540 --> 00:32:56,606
and unreal as bigfoot."
614
00:32:57,710 --> 00:32:59,009
you're going to see...
615
00:32:59,111 --> 00:33:01,211
You're going to be
proud of me...
616
00:33:03,215 --> 00:33:05,415
I'm doing this for you.
617
00:33:05,517 --> 00:33:07,818
I'm doing this for all of us.
618
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,988
(breathing heavily)
619
00:33:11,090 --> 00:33:12,556
oh, man.
620
00:33:12,658 --> 00:33:14,558
(crying)
621
00:33:14,660 --> 00:33:18,662
gary: I could feel him
get up and leave
622
00:33:18,764 --> 00:33:21,565
and I-I heard the door close
and I went out after him,
623
00:33:21,667 --> 00:33:24,634
and by the time I got
to the parking lot, he was gone.
624
00:33:24,737 --> 00:33:27,671
Something... I don't know,
there was a look in his eye.
625
00:33:27,773 --> 00:33:30,874
He-he just got in the car
and he took off...
626
00:33:31,977 --> 00:33:33,610
...And didn't come back.
627
00:33:37,950 --> 00:33:39,182
♪ ♪
628
00:33:54,266 --> 00:33:56,366
maxwell:
They, um...
629
00:33:56,468 --> 00:33:58,769
They never found his body.
630
00:34:04,643 --> 00:34:09,646
I think that was...
Especially hard for mom.
631
00:34:12,785 --> 00:34:13,984
Dad!
632
00:34:16,321 --> 00:34:17,754
♪ ♪
633
00:34:17,856 --> 00:34:20,290
anna:
We actually watch...
634
00:34:20,392 --> 00:34:21,758
We watch the movies a lot.
635
00:34:21,860 --> 00:34:24,961
Uh, I couldn't for a while.
636
00:34:25,064 --> 00:34:30,300
But... But once I did,
I couldn't stop.
637
00:34:30,402 --> 00:34:31,968
♪ ♪
638
00:34:34,506 --> 00:34:36,206
it's like, um,
639
00:34:36,308 --> 00:34:38,608
it was like having him around,
640
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:41,411
you know, in a fun way.
641
00:34:41,513 --> 00:34:42,913
Yeah.
642
00:34:52,324 --> 00:34:56,460
You know that, uh, "damn,
you live like this?" meme?
643
00:34:57,563 --> 00:35:01,131
It's so funny to me
because the essence of it
644
00:35:01,233 --> 00:35:04,134
is those drawings
he did in college.
645
00:35:04,236 --> 00:35:08,371
Black folks living
their lives, being funny,
646
00:35:08,474 --> 00:35:12,976
being free, being real.
647
00:35:13,078 --> 00:35:15,045
(scoffs)
648
00:35:17,015 --> 00:35:19,616
anna: He would've
been really proud that
649
00:35:19,718 --> 00:35:21,618
he became part of the culture.
650
00:35:22,688 --> 00:35:24,354
I think that's
what he wanted in the end,
651
00:35:24,456 --> 00:35:26,790
to just be part of the family.
652
00:35:29,595 --> 00:35:31,294
And along the way...
653
00:35:32,464 --> 00:35:35,699
...He made the blackest
movie of all time.
654
00:35:35,801 --> 00:35:38,535
♪ ♪
655
00:35:43,108 --> 00:35:45,275
♪ yeah, yeah ♪
656
00:35:50,883 --> 00:35:53,650
♪ got myself a notion ♪
657
00:35:53,752 --> 00:35:58,622
♪ one I know
that you'll understand ♪
658
00:35:58,724 --> 00:36:01,324
♪ to set the world in motion ♪
659
00:36:03,428 --> 00:36:05,996
♪ by reaching out
for each other's hands ♪
660
00:36:06,098 --> 00:36:10,934
♪ maybe we'll discover what we
should have known all along ♪
661
00:36:11,036 --> 00:36:13,803
♪ yeah ♪
662
00:36:13,906 --> 00:36:15,205
♪ one way or another ♪
663
00:36:15,307 --> 00:36:18,341
♪ together's
where we both belong ♪
664
00:36:18,443 --> 00:36:21,811
♪ if we listen to
each other's heart ♪
665
00:36:21,914 --> 00:36:23,313
♪ oh, yeah ♪
666
00:36:23,415 --> 00:36:25,582
♪ we'll find we're never
too far apart ♪
667
00:36:25,684 --> 00:36:29,219
♪ and maybe love
is the reason why ♪
668
00:36:29,321 --> 00:36:35,058
♪ for the first time ever,
we're seeing it eye to eye. ♪
669
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:36,142
captioned by
media access group at wgbh
access.Wgbh.Org