1 00:00:42,233 --> 00:00:45,828 Ah, Bernard, how is our great statesman this afternoon? 2 00:00:45,993 --> 00:00:49,383 - Very cheerful. - What has he found to be cheerful about? 3 00:00:49,553 --> 00:00:53,546 - Well, at Question Time he did very well. - In whose opinion? 4 00:00:53,713 --> 00:00:57,149 Everyone was impressed with his answer on tapping MPs' phones. 5 00:00:57,313 --> 00:01:01,943 - I heard about that, but regrettably not from you. - I didn't see any point. 6 00:01:02,113 --> 00:01:06,982 I coordinate all government security. Why was the question not referred to me first? 7 00:01:07,153 --> 00:01:11,704 - It was an unforeseen supplementary. - A foreseeable unforeseen supplementary. 8 00:01:11,873 --> 00:01:16,867 It was a good answer. "Much as I respect and value the opinions of this house, 9 00:01:17,033 --> 00:01:23,791 "I have no desire to listen to honourable members for any longer than I have to." Got a good laugh. 10 00:01:23,953 --> 00:01:26,342 - From you. - Yes, and from his own party. 11 00:01:26,513 --> 00:01:29,505 Ones hoping to be promoted or afraid of being sacked? 12 00:01:29,673 --> 00:01:32,062 That's just about all of them. 13 00:01:32,233 --> 00:01:36,749 I gather he denied that he'd authorised the bugging of an MP's phone. 14 00:01:36,913 --> 00:01:41,782 Well, yes. Well, he hasn't, has he? Has he? He has? Crikey! 15 00:01:42,513 --> 00:01:46,984 It's all here, Bernard, including the transcripts. Shall we... um... 16 00:01:47,153 --> 00:01:51,146 Can't we wait? He doesn't get many moments of unalloyed pleasure. 17 00:01:51,313 --> 00:01:53,304 I suppose he gets all he deserves. 18 00:01:54,393 --> 00:01:56,429 - Prime Minister. - Ah, come in! 19 00:01:56,593 --> 00:02:00,984 - I want to talk about PM's Question Time. - I accept your congratulations! 20 00:02:01,153 --> 00:02:05,749 - Wasn't I brilliant? Didn't you think so? - Well, I wasn't there, but... 21 00:02:05,913 --> 00:02:07,904 - Wasn't I brilliant, Bernard? - Er... 22 00:02:08,073 --> 00:02:12,305 - Your replies will not be quickly forgotten. - Let me tell you what happened. 23 00:02:12,473 --> 00:02:18,264 The first question was about that cock-up over the shortage of prison officers. Masterly reply! 24 00:02:18,433 --> 00:02:22,904 I said, "I refer the honourable member to the speech I made on October 28th." 25 00:02:23,073 --> 00:02:25,667 - Did he remember what you'd said? - No. 26 00:02:25,833 --> 00:02:29,030 Neither did I, come to that. Still, it shut him up. 27 00:02:29,193 --> 00:02:33,471 The next one was, "Did the Department of Employment fiddle the figures?" 28 00:02:33,633 --> 00:02:39,583 Restructure the base from which the statistics have been derived without telling the public? 29 00:02:39,753 --> 00:02:42,426 - Exactly. Fiddle the figures. - Of course they do. 30 00:02:42,593 --> 00:02:46,347 I know they do. I said I'd found no significant evidence of it. 31 00:02:46,513 --> 00:02:49,744 - You haven't looked. - And we haven't shown you. 32 00:02:49,913 --> 00:02:54,907 Well done. Then we went on to a googly about the Dept of Energy's plans for nuclear waste. 33 00:02:55,073 --> 00:02:58,668 - He wanted me to admit Cabinet was divided. - Well, it is. 34 00:02:58,833 --> 00:03:02,143 I know. So I said, "My cabinet took a unanimous decision." 35 00:03:02,313 --> 00:03:05,703 You threatened to dismiss anyone who wouldn't agree. 36 00:03:05,873 --> 00:03:08,865 It certainly made them agree unanimously. 37 00:03:09,033 --> 00:03:11,866 My back benchers were cheering my every word. 38 00:03:12,033 --> 00:03:16,743 Oh, yes, then we had a question about why our new anti-missile missile 39 00:03:16,913 --> 00:03:20,952 was scrapped as obsolete the day before it came off the production line. 40 00:03:21,113 --> 00:03:25,504 - And how did you wriggle out of that one? - That was my masterstroke! 41 00:03:25,673 --> 00:03:27,664 My reply was sheer genius. 42 00:03:27,833 --> 00:03:33,544 I said our policy had not been as effective as we'd hoped. Clearly we had got it wrong. 43 00:03:33,713 --> 00:03:36,705 - You admitted that? - Yeah. Brilliant! 44 00:03:36,873 --> 00:03:39,467 Took the wind right out of his sails! 45 00:03:42,833 --> 00:03:45,711 Honesty always gives you the advantage of surprise in the House of Commons. 46 00:03:45,873 --> 00:03:51,505 The PM was also asked when he would request the resignation from the responsible minister. 47 00:03:51,673 --> 00:03:55,666 I said, "When he makes a mistake that could've been seen at the time 48 00:03:55,833 --> 00:03:58,028 "and not with the benefit of hindsight." 49 00:03:58,193 --> 00:04:01,868 They were on their feet cheering, stamping, waving their order papers! 50 00:04:02,033 --> 00:04:05,946 I gather there was a question about the bugging of an MP's phone. 51 00:04:06,113 --> 00:04:09,901 - Yes, I got a terrific laugh with that. I said... - Bernard told me. 52 00:04:10,073 --> 00:04:12,906 - I said, "Much as I respect..." - Bernard told me. 53 00:04:13,073 --> 00:04:17,828 Oh. Well, anyway, that was stupid. Why should we bug Hugh Halifax's phone? 54 00:04:18,033 --> 00:04:21,742 One of my own administration! Where did they get such a daft idea? 55 00:04:21,913 --> 00:04:24,381 - Sheer paranoia. - The only thing is... 56 00:04:24,553 --> 00:04:28,751 Why should we listen in to MPs? Boring, stupid, ignorant windbags! 57 00:04:28,913 --> 00:04:31,108 I do my best not to listen to them. 58 00:04:31,273 --> 00:04:36,666 And he's only a PPS. I can't find out what's going on at Defence. What could he know? 59 00:04:36,833 --> 00:04:41,384 So I gather you denied that Mr Halifax's phone had been bugged? 60 00:04:41,553 --> 00:04:46,832 It was the one question to which I could give a clear, simple, straightforward, honest answer. 61 00:04:46,993 --> 00:04:51,828 Yes, unfortunately, although the answer was clear, simple and straightforward, 62 00:04:51,993 --> 00:04:58,387 it is difficult to justifiably assign to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement... 63 00:04:58,553 --> 00:05:03,149 ...inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated 64 00:05:03,313 --> 00:05:07,022 and the facts insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated 65 00:05:07,193 --> 00:05:10,503 is such as to cause epistemological problems 66 00:05:10,673 --> 00:05:15,986 of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language 67 00:05:16,153 --> 00:05:20,305 a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear. 68 00:05:20,473 --> 00:05:22,782 Epistemological? What are you talking about? 69 00:05:24,593 --> 00:05:26,982 You... told a lie. 70 00:05:28,113 --> 00:05:31,105 - A lie? - A lie. 71 00:05:31,273 --> 00:05:34,265 - What do you mean, a lie? - I mean, you... 72 00:05:35,633 --> 00:05:37,828 ...lied. 73 00:05:37,993 --> 00:05:41,986 I know this is a difficult concept to get across to a politician. 74 00:05:42,153 --> 00:05:44,109 You... er... (MUTTERS) 75 00:05:44,273 --> 00:05:46,423 Ah, yes, you did not tell the truth. 76 00:05:46,593 --> 00:05:48,470 We ARE bugging his phone? 77 00:05:48,633 --> 00:05:50,624 - We were. - When did we stop? 78 00:05:50,793 --> 00:05:53,865 Um... 17 minutes ago. 79 00:05:54,033 --> 00:05:58,311 - Well, you can't call that lying! - What is the opposite of telling the truth? 80 00:05:58,473 --> 00:06:02,830 I mean, there was no intent. I'd never knowingly mislead the House. 81 00:06:02,993 --> 00:06:07,430 - Nonetheless you have done so. - It wasn't my fault. I didn't know! 82 00:06:07,593 --> 00:06:11,950 - You are deemed to have known. - Why wasn't I told? 83 00:06:12,113 --> 00:06:15,503 The Home Secretary might not have felt the need to inform you. 84 00:06:15,673 --> 00:06:18,267 - Why? - Perhaps he didn't know either. 85 00:06:19,233 --> 00:06:22,623 Or perhaps he'd been advised that you did not need to know. 86 00:06:22,793 --> 00:06:25,591 - I did need to know. - The fact you needed to know 87 00:06:25,753 --> 00:06:29,746 was not known at the time that the now-known need to know was known. 88 00:06:29,913 --> 00:06:34,509 Those that needed to advise the Home Secretary felt that the information he needed 89 00:06:34,673 --> 00:06:38,143 as to whether to inform the highest authority was not yet known, 90 00:06:38,313 --> 00:06:41,350 so there was no authority for the authority to be informed 91 00:06:41,513 --> 00:06:44,550 because the need to know was not known or needed. 92 00:06:45,353 --> 00:06:47,344 What? 93 00:06:47,513 --> 00:06:52,348 - We could not know you'd deny it in the House. - I would if I didn't know and were asked. 94 00:06:52,513 --> 00:06:54,868 We did not know you'd be asked when you didn't know. 95 00:06:55,033 --> 00:06:59,026 I was bound to be asked when I didn't know if I didn't know! 96 00:06:59,193 --> 00:07:00,945 - What? - What? 97 00:07:01,713 --> 00:07:04,910 It was thought that it was better not to inform you. 98 00:07:05,073 --> 00:07:10,272 Halifax is one of your government team. It was thought it was better not to create distrust. 99 00:07:10,433 --> 00:07:13,630 - We only tell you when you should be aware. - When's that? 100 00:07:13,793 --> 00:07:16,546 You should now be aware because you've denied it. 101 00:07:16,713 --> 00:07:20,023 It would've been helpful if I'd been aware before I denied it. 102 00:07:20,193 --> 00:07:24,027 If you had been aware before you denied it, you wouldn't have denied it. 103 00:07:24,193 --> 00:07:28,232 - But I needed to know! - We do not always tell you about bugging. 104 00:07:28,393 --> 00:07:30,748 At times we need you not to know. 105 00:07:30,913 --> 00:07:33,507 - Why did you decide I didn't? - I didn't. 106 00:07:33,673 --> 00:07:37,825 - Who did? - Nobody. It was just nobody decided to tell you. 107 00:07:38,913 --> 00:07:41,222 - It's the same thing! - On the contrary. 108 00:07:41,393 --> 00:07:46,387 To decide to conceal information from you is a heavy burden for any official to shoulder, 109 00:07:46,553 --> 00:07:51,024 but to decide not to reveal information to you is routine procedure. 110 00:07:51,193 --> 00:07:53,548 Humphrey, I need to know everything. 111 00:07:53,713 --> 00:07:55,624 - Everything? - Everything. 112 00:07:57,233 --> 00:07:59,428 Very well. 113 00:07:59,593 --> 00:08:03,791 Stationery deliveries this week. Four dozen packets... 114 00:08:03,953 --> 00:08:08,549 No, Humphrey, Humphrey, don't be silly. I mean important things. 115 00:08:08,713 --> 00:08:11,705 Who should decide what is important? 116 00:08:12,793 --> 00:08:17,423 - How can you defend this cock-up? - As you said in the House, we got it wrong. 117 00:08:17,593 --> 00:08:22,792 - YOU got it wrong. - I am merely a humble servant, a lowly official. 118 00:08:22,953 --> 00:08:27,424 - The Home Secretary made the decision. - Any reason I shouldn't ask him to resign? 119 00:08:27,593 --> 00:08:30,903 You should only ask him to resign when he's made a mistake 120 00:08:31,073 --> 00:08:35,066 which could've been seen at the time and not with the benefit of hindsight. 121 00:08:35,673 --> 00:08:39,507 The trouble has arisen because of your error of judgement in making this denial. 122 00:08:39,673 --> 00:08:43,143 - What? - You shouldn't have denied what you didn't know. 123 00:08:43,313 --> 00:08:46,510 That was your fault. You admitted keeping secrets from me. 124 00:08:46,673 --> 00:08:50,871 The system works perfectly well as long as the PM tells the Civil Service 125 00:08:51,033 --> 00:08:53,627 everything he's going to say before he says it. 126 00:08:53,793 --> 00:08:59,390 Lf, precipitantly, he says something without first clearing it with us, he has only himself to blame. 127 00:08:59,553 --> 00:09:05,503 You must not say anything without clearing it. With respect, PM, you must learn discretion. 128 00:09:05,673 --> 00:09:10,383 - There was nothing to be discreet about! - There's always something to be discreet about. 129 00:09:10,553 --> 00:09:14,307 Anyway, why are we bugging Hugh Halifax? Is he talking to the Russians? 130 00:09:14,473 --> 00:09:17,704 No, the French, actually. That's much more serious. 131 00:09:18,913 --> 00:09:22,110 - Why? - The Russians already know what we're doing. 132 00:09:26,073 --> 00:09:30,544 But the French are our trusted allies, whatever you think of them. And who doesn't? 133 00:09:30,713 --> 00:09:35,309 No, Prime Minister, actually the French are our mistrusted allies. 134 00:09:35,473 --> 00:09:39,944 That is why talking directly to the French is regarded as an act of treason 135 00:09:40,113 --> 00:09:42,422 by the Foreign Office... who authorised it. 136 00:09:42,593 --> 00:09:45,983 - I don't know. - You... don't know what? 137 00:09:46,153 --> 00:09:50,305 - Who authorised it. Who authorised it? - Is there an echo? 138 00:09:50,473 --> 00:09:54,671 - Who authorised this bugging? - The Foreign Office! I've just said. 139 00:09:54,833 --> 00:09:59,270 Anyway, the less said the better. Wouldn't you agree, Prime Minister? 140 00:09:59,433 --> 00:10:03,142 - About what? - About everything. 141 00:10:06,833 --> 00:10:09,870 One cannot refuse to appear before a House committee. 142 00:10:10,033 --> 00:10:13,025 - No, sir. - One shall have to tell them everything. 143 00:10:13,193 --> 00:10:17,584 - Everything they can find out from other sources. - Precisely. 144 00:10:17,753 --> 00:10:23,544 But they are likely to ask me if the PM has ever authorised the bugging of an MP's telephone. 145 00:10:23,713 --> 00:10:26,864 So how should a loyal public servant reply? 146 00:10:27,033 --> 00:10:32,232 Er, you could say it was a question for the PM or the Foreign Secretary or the Home Office. 147 00:10:32,393 --> 00:10:35,271 Or it was a security matter - can't confirm or deny. 148 00:10:35,433 --> 00:10:39,426 If I dodge the question, do you know what the next question will be? 149 00:10:39,593 --> 00:10:45,065 Why will I not give the same clear denial that the PM gave the House yesterday? 150 00:10:45,233 --> 00:10:47,827 - Ah. - What should I say then, Bernard? 151 00:10:47,993 --> 00:10:51,986 Well, you could say the Prime Minister knows more about it than you do. 152 00:10:53,713 --> 00:10:56,546 Then they'd know I was lying. 153 00:10:57,673 --> 00:11:01,222 - So... what will you do? - I don't know, Bernard. 154 00:11:01,393 --> 00:11:04,385 I thought you should be aware of the dilemma. 155 00:11:04,553 --> 00:11:09,673 - Would you like a glass of sherry, Bernard? - Oh, yes, thank you. Sweet. 156 00:11:09,833 --> 00:11:11,824 There's only dry. 157 00:11:13,353 --> 00:11:16,823 Incidentally, Bernard, the BBC rang this morning. 158 00:11:16,993 --> 00:11:20,702 - The BBC know about it? - No, of course not. 159 00:11:20,873 --> 00:11:23,990 They want to interview me for a documentary 160 00:11:24,153 --> 00:11:27,543 they're making on Radio 3 about the structure of the government. 161 00:11:27,713 --> 00:11:29,908 Gosh. You won't do it, will you? 162 00:11:30,073 --> 00:11:32,712 - Why not? - They may want you to say things. 163 00:11:34,273 --> 00:11:36,582 That is quite normal on radio. 164 00:11:36,753 --> 00:11:40,507 No, no, I mean interesting things. Controversy. 165 00:11:41,513 --> 00:11:45,791 On the other hand, one has a duty to put the record straight. 166 00:11:45,953 --> 00:11:49,662 - You mean you want to do it? - Well, not for oneself, of course. 167 00:11:49,833 --> 00:11:53,587 No inclination for petty vanity, you know, being a celebrity. 168 00:11:53,753 --> 00:11:58,873 - But... one can be too self-effacing. - I thought we were supposed to be faceless. 169 00:11:59,033 --> 00:12:01,831 They don't show your face on radio. 170 00:12:01,993 --> 00:12:05,429 They've said if I don't do it, Arnold has said he would. 171 00:12:05,593 --> 00:12:07,982 Perhaps that would be better. 172 00:12:09,553 --> 00:12:12,545 Arnold? For myself, I would rather not do it. 173 00:12:12,713 --> 00:12:16,103 But one's sense of duty compels one to see that Arnold 174 00:12:16,273 --> 00:12:19,106 is not held up as an example of a top civil servant. 175 00:12:19,873 --> 00:12:24,469 You'll need clearance from the Prime Minister, but that won't be a problem. 176 00:12:24,633 --> 00:12:28,626 - How do you know? - Well, it's on Radio 3. Nobody'll be listening. 177 00:12:33,353 --> 00:12:35,548 - Ah, Prime Minister. - Humphrey. 178 00:12:35,713 --> 00:12:38,511 The Cabinet agenda, Prime Minister. 179 00:12:38,673 --> 00:12:41,062 - Is it today you do your interview? - Oh, yes. 180 00:12:41,233 --> 00:12:43,588 - Any problems? - Oh, no, no, no. 181 00:12:43,753 --> 00:12:47,541 I have some experience in dealing with difficult questions. 182 00:12:47,713 --> 00:12:53,106 If you're evasive or confusing on the radio, they edit you out. You've really got to say something. 183 00:12:53,273 --> 00:12:56,265 - Say something? - Something simple and interesting. 184 00:12:56,433 --> 00:12:58,901 Simple and interesting. 185 00:12:59,073 --> 00:13:04,306 Perhaps you could advise me, Prime Minister, particularly if the questions are aggressive. 186 00:13:04,473 --> 00:13:07,465 Even better. That puts listeners on your side. 187 00:13:07,633 --> 00:13:12,627 - I may have to answer them. - Why? You've never answered my questions. 188 00:13:12,793 --> 00:13:15,785 No, no, no, that's different, Prime Minister. 189 00:13:17,793 --> 00:13:21,627 Ludovic Kennedy might ask me some perceptive questions. 190 00:13:23,713 --> 00:13:27,831 His researchers mentioned that lots of people are interested to know 191 00:13:27,993 --> 00:13:30,712 why so much power is centralised in my hands. 192 00:13:30,873 --> 00:13:34,866 Lots of people? Hardly anybody's ever heard of you, Humphrey! 193 00:13:35,673 --> 00:13:41,145 - Perhaps they meant lots of Radio 3 listeners. - That's a contradiction in terms! 194 00:13:41,313 --> 00:13:46,512 If he does say that lots of people want to know the answer to that question, say, "Name six." 195 00:13:46,673 --> 00:13:51,303 That'll fix him. He'll never be able to remember more than two. 196 00:13:51,473 --> 00:13:54,271 Oh, excellent, Prime Minister. Any more tricks? 197 00:13:54,433 --> 00:13:57,630 Tricks, Humphrey? This is technique. 198 00:13:57,793 --> 00:14:03,789 Attack one word in the sentence. Like frequently. "Frequently? What do you mean, frequently?" 199 00:14:03,953 --> 00:14:09,152 Or attack the interviewer. "You've clearly never read the white paper, have you?" 200 00:14:09,313 --> 00:14:11,304 Or else ask your own question. 201 00:14:11,473 --> 00:14:15,512 "That was a very interesting question. Now let me ask you a question." See? 202 00:14:16,313 --> 00:14:18,463 Oh, thank you, Prime Minister. 203 00:14:20,033 --> 00:14:24,026 That reminds me, I have shortly to appear before the committee 204 00:14:24,193 --> 00:14:27,663 to answer questions about the alleged bugging of an MP's phone. 205 00:14:27,833 --> 00:14:33,385 Yes. Yes, Bernard told me. Well, you'll just have to confirm what I said in the House. 206 00:14:34,353 --> 00:14:37,743 - But that would be lying. - Well, nobody'd know. 207 00:14:39,673 --> 00:14:42,904 Oh, what a tangled web we weave. 208 00:14:43,993 --> 00:14:47,190 You must. Otherwise it'll look as though I was lying. 209 00:14:48,233 --> 00:14:50,269 Humphrey, you have a loyalty. 210 00:14:52,033 --> 00:14:54,467 To the truth. 211 00:14:54,633 --> 00:15:00,583 I'm sorry, Prime Minister, I cannot become involved in some shabby cover-up. 212 00:15:04,713 --> 00:15:10,310 Whereas there must be some element of shared responsibility for the governance of Britain, 213 00:15:10,473 --> 00:15:14,864 as between the legislators on the one hand and the administration on the other, 214 00:15:15,033 --> 00:15:21,029 the precise allocation of cause to consequence or agency to eventuality in any particular instance 215 00:15:21,193 --> 00:15:25,630 is invariably so complex as to be ultimately invalid if not irresponsible. 216 00:15:25,793 --> 00:15:28,591 I see, but could you be a bit more precise? 217 00:15:28,753 --> 00:15:32,541 How far is the Civil Service to blame for the level of unemployment? 218 00:15:32,713 --> 00:15:35,591 Yes, of course, unemployment is a single name applied by the media 219 00:15:36,713 --> 00:15:39,910 to what is a wide range of socio-economic phenomena 220 00:15:40,073 --> 00:15:43,543 whose most politically visible manifestation happens to be... 221 00:15:43,713 --> 00:15:48,343 - Could you be a little bit more precise... - I'm so sorry, Mr Kennedy. 222 00:15:48,513 --> 00:15:52,301 You've asked me the question. Do allow me to answer it. 223 00:15:52,473 --> 00:15:55,271 There happens to be a current frequency 224 00:15:55,433 --> 00:15:59,631 of weekly registrations on the National Unemployment Register 225 00:15:59,793 --> 00:16:03,991 which is deemed to be above what has been held to be an acceptable level. 226 00:16:04,153 --> 00:16:09,386 But even separating out the component causes, let alone allocating responsibility for them, 227 00:16:09,553 --> 00:16:12,147 is a task of such analytical delicacy 228 00:16:12,313 --> 00:16:17,910 as not to be susceptible of compression within the confines of a popular radio programme. 229 00:16:18,073 --> 00:16:21,986 Sir Humphrey Appleby, thank you very much. 230 00:16:22,153 --> 00:16:27,625 If that was a popular programme, what would an unpopular programme be like? 231 00:16:27,793 --> 00:16:30,785 Thank you, Sir Humphrey. Absolutely splendid. 232 00:16:30,953 --> 00:16:34,468 My pleasure. Was I all right? 233 00:16:34,633 --> 00:16:37,830 Couldn't you have said a bit more about unemployment? 234 00:16:37,993 --> 00:16:41,190 - Such as? - Well... the truth. 235 00:16:41,353 --> 00:16:43,913 - (HUMPHREY LAUGHS) - Why do you laugh? 236 00:16:44,073 --> 00:16:48,544 Oh, my dear Ludo, nobody tells the truth about unemployment. 237 00:16:48,713 --> 00:16:52,023 - Why not? - Because everybody knows you can halve it. 238 00:16:52,193 --> 00:16:54,787 - But how? - Cut off all Social Security 239 00:16:54,953 --> 00:16:57,547 to any claimant who refuses two job offers. 240 00:16:57,713 --> 00:17:02,104 There's genuine unemployment in the north, but the south is awash with layabouts, 241 00:17:02,273 --> 00:17:05,868 many of them graduates living off the dole and housing benefit 242 00:17:06,033 --> 00:17:09,389 plus quite a lot of cash they pick up without telling anybody. 243 00:17:09,553 --> 00:17:13,023 - You mean moonlighting? - Well, sunlighting, really. 244 00:17:13,193 --> 00:17:18,665 Most employers will tell you they're short-staffed, but offer the unemployed a street-sweeping job, 245 00:17:18,833 --> 00:17:22,542 they'd be off the register before you could say "parasite". 246 00:17:22,713 --> 00:17:27,707 This country can have as much unemployment as it's prepared to pay for in Social Security. 247 00:17:27,873 --> 00:17:30,785 No politicians have got the guts to do anything. 248 00:17:30,953 --> 00:17:34,946 - (LUDOVIC) Oh, I do wish you'd said that. - (HUMPHREY) I'm sure you do. 249 00:17:40,193 --> 00:17:42,388 - Sir Humphrey... - Oh, come along. 250 00:17:42,553 --> 00:17:45,750 - What's this for? - The BBC have just sent me this tape. 251 00:17:45,913 --> 00:17:51,783 Apparently, it's part of my interview. They say it's particularly interesting. 252 00:17:52,793 --> 00:17:56,991 - Your interview? - You're surprised I said something interesting? 253 00:17:57,153 --> 00:18:02,750 No, no, it's just that I thought you intended to say nothing, as always. I mean... 254 00:18:02,913 --> 00:18:05,985 Switch it on, Bernard. You may learn something. 255 00:18:08,513 --> 00:18:11,710 ... Ludo, nobody tells the truth about unemployment. 256 00:18:11,873 --> 00:18:16,025 - Why not? - Because everyone knows you can halve it... 257 00:18:17,033 --> 00:18:21,788 Cut off all Social Security to all claimants who refuse two j'ob offers... 258 00:18:21,953 --> 00:18:24,945 (WINDS TAPE FORWARD) 259 00:18:25,113 --> 00:18:28,662 No politicians have got the guts to do anything. 260 00:18:29,713 --> 00:18:32,705 Sir Humphrey, that wasn't you, was it? 261 00:18:33,833 --> 00:18:37,826 - Yes, Bernard. - But how could you say such things? 262 00:18:37,993 --> 00:18:39,984 Is there any more? 263 00:18:48,673 --> 00:18:52,222 - Yes, Bernard. - As damaging as what we've just heard? 264 00:18:54,233 --> 00:18:56,542 More damaging. 265 00:18:56,713 --> 00:18:59,511 I believe I referred to... parasites. 266 00:18:59,673 --> 00:19:03,143 - How could you be so indiscreet? - The interview was over! 267 00:19:03,313 --> 00:19:07,067 - We were just chatting! It was off the record! - It was on the tape! 268 00:19:08,433 --> 00:19:12,312 Oh, my God, I've just realised! Blackmail. 269 00:19:12,473 --> 00:19:14,907 - Blackmail? - Read that. 270 00:19:15,073 --> 00:19:19,908 "Here is a copy of your off-the-record part of the interview. Very interesting. 271 00:19:20,073 --> 00:19:23,748 - "We will contact you shortly." - What do they want of me? 272 00:19:23,913 --> 00:19:26,905 The BBC? Licence fee up 50%? 273 00:19:28,313 --> 00:19:31,908 - Maybe it's a private blackmail by the producer. - Maybe. 274 00:19:32,073 --> 00:19:34,792 Doesn't he know I'm a poor man? 275 00:19:34,953 --> 00:19:38,741 Maybe he hasn't read you live in abject poverty on 81,000 a year. 276 00:19:43,273 --> 00:19:46,868 - What am I going to do? - Keep your mouth shut in future. 277 00:19:47,033 --> 00:19:51,504 And so must you! Don't breathe a word about this to anyone! Anyone! 278 00:19:51,673 --> 00:19:54,665 - My duty to the... - (SPLUTTERS) 279 00:19:57,753 --> 00:19:59,948 Oh, Bernard, what am I going to do? 280 00:20:00,113 --> 00:20:04,425 Well, put out a press statement expressing sympathy for the unemployed. 281 00:20:04,913 --> 00:20:07,905 - Sympathy? - You may be joining them any moment. 282 00:20:16,993 --> 00:20:19,826 - Yes, Bernard? - Excuse me, are you busy? 283 00:20:19,993 --> 00:20:25,863 I am. I'm expecting Humphrey. I've got to decide what to tell the Cabinet about this bugging. 284 00:20:26,033 --> 00:20:29,708 Do I tell them the truth... or do I tell them what I told the House? 285 00:20:29,873 --> 00:20:35,425 Perhaps you should behave to the Cabinet as you would expect them to behave to you. 286 00:20:36,433 --> 00:20:39,823 You're quite right. I'll tell them what I've told the House. 287 00:20:40,793 --> 00:20:42,784 (COUGHS SIGNIFICANTLY) 288 00:20:42,953 --> 00:20:46,229 - Something else? - Yes, there is something you need to know. 289 00:20:46,913 --> 00:20:50,667 - Need to know? - Yes, it's about Sir Humphrey's broadcast. 290 00:20:52,153 --> 00:20:54,747 - Boring? - Initially, yes. 291 00:20:54,913 --> 00:20:58,269 Then it livened up as he became more and more indiscreet. 292 00:20:58,433 --> 00:21:00,469 Humphrey? Indiscreet? 293 00:21:00,633 --> 00:21:05,024 He thought the broadcast was over. He was chatting, but the tape was still running. 294 00:21:05,193 --> 00:21:07,388 - He fell for that old dodge? - Yes. 295 00:21:07,553 --> 00:21:11,865 You should always treat every microphone as if it were live. Doesn't he know that? 296 00:21:12,033 --> 00:21:15,423 - He hasn't done a lot of broadcasting. - What did he say? 297 00:21:15,593 --> 00:21:19,711 We could halve unemployment, but the government hasn't the guts. 298 00:21:19,873 --> 00:21:24,230 - What?! - He didn't know he was being recorded. 299 00:21:24,393 --> 00:21:30,912 And the BBC has the original? You know what this means. All over the papers. Do something! 300 00:21:31,073 --> 00:21:35,624 I already have. I had lunch with the producer. He and I were at Oxford together. 301 00:21:35,793 --> 00:21:38,182 He never intended to release the tape, 302 00:21:38,353 --> 00:21:42,392 so I got him to give me the indiscreet bit from the master tape. 303 00:21:43,233 --> 00:21:45,224 This is the original? 304 00:21:47,393 --> 00:21:50,271 Does Humphrey know you've got it? 305 00:21:56,913 --> 00:21:59,632 - Shall I tell him? - Why? 306 00:22:01,193 --> 00:22:04,390 - I think he'd like to know. - I'm sure he would. 307 00:22:04,553 --> 00:22:06,942 But does he NEED to know? 308 00:22:07,993 --> 00:22:12,464 Ah, somebody needs to know, but now you know, Sir Humphrey doesn't need to know. 309 00:22:12,633 --> 00:22:17,787 You need to know Sir Humphrey doesn't know, but he doesn't need to know you know. 310 00:22:17,953 --> 00:22:21,468 Thank you, Bernard, I couldn't have put it less clearly myself. 311 00:22:21,633 --> 00:22:24,431 - Like to hear the tape? - Can you play this? 312 00:22:24,593 --> 00:22:27,983 Oh, no, not that. I got him to give me a copy. 313 00:22:28,153 --> 00:22:32,624 Oh, no, hold on a minute. I think this deserves a wider audience. 314 00:22:32,793 --> 00:22:36,183 - I think Humphrey ought to hear this. - (BUZZER) 315 00:22:37,993 --> 00:22:39,312 Yes? 316 00:22:39,473 --> 00:22:42,146 Oh. It is Sir Humphrey. 317 00:22:42,313 --> 00:22:46,067 What a happy coincidence. Ask him to join us, Bernard. 318 00:22:46,233 --> 00:22:51,944 Will you hold on a moment? Prime Minister, I did tell you all this in confidence. 319 00:22:52,113 --> 00:22:54,343 And I respect your confidence. 320 00:22:57,313 --> 00:23:02,068 - This is serious, you know, Bernard. - Oh, er, yes, Prime Minister. 321 00:23:07,673 --> 00:23:09,664 Sir Humphrey. 322 00:23:09,833 --> 00:23:13,428 Ah, Humphrey, come in, come in, come in! (CHUCKLES) 323 00:23:14,433 --> 00:23:18,267 - How did your broadcast go? - Oh, very well, very well. 324 00:23:18,993 --> 00:23:22,030 - What did you say? - Oh, nothing in particular. 325 00:23:22,193 --> 00:23:26,471 I pointed out some of the difficulties in allocating responsibilities 326 00:23:26,633 --> 00:23:29,545 as between politicians and civil servants. 327 00:23:29,713 --> 00:23:33,342 - But you were discreet? - Why do you ask? 328 00:23:33,513 --> 00:23:35,504 - Were you or weren't you? - Yes. 329 00:23:35,673 --> 00:23:38,631 - Yes, you were or yes, you weren't? - Yes. 330 00:23:38,793 --> 00:23:42,502 - Humpy? - Wouldn't you expect me to be discreet? 331 00:23:42,673 --> 00:23:45,471 - Of course. - There you are, then. 332 00:23:45,633 --> 00:23:47,703 Good. Well, that's all right, then. 333 00:23:49,953 --> 00:23:51,750 Why do you ask? 334 00:23:51,913 --> 00:23:54,507 It's just that the BBC sent me a tape. 335 00:23:57,113 --> 00:24:00,150 - A tape? What tape? - A tape of your broadcast. 336 00:24:00,313 --> 00:24:02,349 I thought we might listen to it. 337 00:24:02,513 --> 00:24:04,822 - No, no, no, no, no! - Why not? 338 00:24:04,993 --> 00:24:07,188 - It isn't interesting. - Not interesting? 339 00:24:07,353 --> 00:24:10,709 - The Cabinet Secretary talking to the nation? - Not VERY. 340 00:24:10,873 --> 00:24:13,831 You mean you were too discreet? 341 00:24:13,993 --> 00:24:16,302 Play it, would you, Bernard? 342 00:24:16,473 --> 00:24:19,226 Nobody tells the truth about unemployment. 343 00:24:19,393 --> 00:24:22,988 - Why not? - Because everyone knows you can halve it. 344 00:24:23,153 --> 00:24:25,747 - How? - Cut off all Social Security 345 00:24:25,913 --> 00:24:28,825 to all claimants who refuse two j'ob offers. 346 00:24:28,993 --> 00:24:30,984 There's genuine unemployment... 347 00:24:31,153 --> 00:24:34,145 - Humphrey! - I'm terribly sorry. I didn't know! 348 00:24:34,313 --> 00:24:37,510 - The interview was over! - The indiscretion! 349 00:24:37,673 --> 00:24:39,823 - The irresponsibility! Any more? - No. 350 00:24:39,993 --> 00:24:43,190 - Yes. - Play it, Bernard. 351 00:24:43,353 --> 00:24:46,902 ... be off the register before you could say "parasite". 352 00:24:47,073 --> 00:24:52,101 This country can have as much unemployment as it's prepared to pay for in Social Security. 353 00:24:52,273 --> 00:24:56,551 - No politicians have the guts to do anything. - You said that?! 354 00:24:59,113 --> 00:25:01,104 It was Mike Yarwood. 355 00:25:06,233 --> 00:25:09,987 I'm in somewhat of a difficulty as to know what to do about this. 356 00:25:10,153 --> 00:25:14,305 I need advice. Perhaps I ought to play it to the Cabinet, get their reaction. 357 00:25:14,473 --> 00:25:16,941 - Oh, please! - Or the Privy Counsel. 358 00:25:17,113 --> 00:25:20,901 - Or... Her Majesty? - Oh, God! 359 00:25:21,073 --> 00:25:24,861 Do you realise what damage it would do if it got into the papers? 360 00:25:25,033 --> 00:25:28,628 I could say I got it wrong! I've checked and it isn't true! 361 00:25:28,793 --> 00:25:30,784 - But it is. - I could say it isn't! 362 00:25:30,953 --> 00:25:35,185 - Nobody can prove it, it's never been tried! - You'd tell an untruth in public? 363 00:25:35,353 --> 00:25:41,701 - Yes, for YOU! We can issue a clarification. - You've already made yourself very clear. 364 00:25:41,873 --> 00:25:47,311 Prime Minister, a clarification is not to make oneself clear, it is to put oneself in the clear. 365 00:25:48,193 --> 00:25:50,309 Oh, what a tangled web we weave. 366 00:25:52,433 --> 00:25:57,382 Give me the tape, would you, Bernard? Now I've got something to tell you. 367 00:25:57,553 --> 00:25:59,350 This is a copy, 368 00:25:59,513 --> 00:26:03,711 but this is the original, the master. 369 00:26:03,873 --> 00:26:06,831 - You mean... - They were retrieved from the BBC. 370 00:26:07,633 --> 00:26:09,430 By whom? 371 00:26:10,593 --> 00:26:12,663 Intelligence. 372 00:26:13,313 --> 00:26:15,747 So... no one else will ever know? 373 00:26:15,913 --> 00:26:18,950 That rather depends on what I choose to tell them. 374 00:26:19,113 --> 00:26:23,106 Of course, I could just hand over the tapes or... 375 00:26:24,073 --> 00:26:29,784 ...I could hold onto them while I consider the security and disciplinary implications. 376 00:26:29,953 --> 00:26:33,787 I certainly have no intention of joining "some shabby cover-up". 377 00:26:34,593 --> 00:26:39,587 Oh, that reminds me, have you decided yet what you'll tell the Privileges Committee? 378 00:26:39,753 --> 00:26:45,146 Oh, yes, yes, Prime Minister. I've decided that, in the interests of national security, 379 00:26:45,313 --> 00:26:49,989 that, um, the only honourable course is to support your statement in the House. 380 00:26:50,153 --> 00:26:53,748 And say that Hugh Halifax's phone has never been bugged? 381 00:26:53,913 --> 00:26:56,268 - And say I have no evidence... - No! 382 00:26:56,433 --> 00:27:01,063 And say the government has never authorised the bugging of MPs' phones. 383 00:27:01,233 --> 00:27:06,591 And say... the government has never author... Supposing they find out the truth? 384 00:27:06,753 --> 00:27:10,063 You'll just have to say that nobody told you 385 00:27:10,233 --> 00:27:13,430 because you didn't need to know. 386 00:27:13,593 --> 00:27:15,743 - Agreed? - (SIGHS) 387 00:27:15,913 --> 00:27:17,904 Splendid. That's settled, then. 388 00:27:18,513 --> 00:27:21,073 May one have one's tapes back? 389 00:27:24,873 --> 00:27:26,670 Tomorrow. 390 00:27:28,313 --> 00:27:32,067 After the Committee on Privileges. All right, Humphrey? 391 00:27:33,633 --> 00:27:35,624 Yes, Prime Minister.