1 00:00:45,677 --> 00:00:47,668 - Morning. - Morning. 2 00:00:47,837 --> 00:00:51,147 You have to leave for the TV studios in five minutes. 3 00:00:51,317 --> 00:00:55,629 - Do you remember what the interview's about? - Local government. 4 00:00:55,797 --> 00:00:57,992 The one thing I can do nothing about. 5 00:00:58,157 --> 00:01:02,947 These wretched councils are run by a bunch of corrupt morons who are too clever by half. 6 00:01:03,117 --> 00:01:08,475 The most a moron can be is less clever by half. These councillors are democratically elected. 7 00:01:08,637 --> 00:01:13,427 Depends how you define democracy. Only about 25% of people vote in a local election. 8 00:01:13,597 --> 00:01:17,875 Those who do regard it as a popularity pole for the real leaders in Westminster. 9 00:01:18,037 --> 00:01:22,235 - But councillors are still representatives. - Who do they represent? 10 00:01:22,397 --> 00:01:26,151 Nobody knows who their councillor is. Do you know who yours is? 11 00:01:26,317 --> 00:01:29,036 - No. - Well, no, of course you don't. 12 00:01:29,197 --> 00:01:31,188 The councillors know this, 13 00:01:31,357 --> 00:01:36,147 so they spend four totally unaccountable years on a publicly subsidised ego trip. 14 00:01:36,317 --> 00:01:39,866 They ruin the inner cities, let the schools fall to bits, 15 00:01:40,037 --> 00:01:44,030 they demoralise the police and undermine law and order, then blame me. 16 00:01:44,837 --> 00:01:48,307 - Will you say that? - I've just said it. Didn't you hear me? 17 00:01:49,157 --> 00:01:53,867 - No, I mean on television. - Of course not. It'd make me sound intolerant. 18 00:01:54,877 --> 00:01:57,675 Houndsworth Council leader, Agnes Moorhouse, 19 00:01:57,837 --> 00:02:01,546 threatens to withhold police funds and ban them from council property. 20 00:02:01,717 --> 00:02:05,027 She can't do that. Section 5 of the Police Act, 1964. 21 00:02:05,197 --> 00:02:08,587 Councils must provide an adequate and efficient police force. 22 00:02:08,757 --> 00:02:13,467 She says that until the police force is 50% black, it can't be adequate or efficient. 23 00:02:14,357 --> 00:02:18,145 - She can't prove that. - Unfortunately, her own police force 24 00:02:18,317 --> 00:02:21,707 is the most inadequate and least efficient in the country. 25 00:02:21,877 --> 00:02:25,267 - Everybody's terrified that she will prove it. - (KNOCK AT DOOR) 26 00:02:26,397 --> 00:02:29,992 Humphrey, we've got to do something about Agnes Moorhouse. 27 00:02:30,157 --> 00:02:33,149 - Her borough's practically a no-go area. - Indeed. 28 00:02:33,317 --> 00:02:36,548 - What? - How about a strongly worded letter? 29 00:02:36,717 --> 00:02:41,916 And get a more strongly worded letter in reply, copied to the newspapers? Asking for trouble. 30 00:02:42,077 --> 00:02:45,387 - Draw her attention to the law. - She is a lawyer. 31 00:02:45,557 --> 00:02:50,073 - Getting round the law is what she's paid for. - Why not just ignore her? 32 00:02:50,237 --> 00:02:54,947 Have everyone say I'd handed over control of the inner cities to the militant loonies? 33 00:02:55,117 --> 00:02:59,952 She's a wild woman, Humphrey. No, someone's got to have a word with her. 34 00:03:00,117 --> 00:03:03,189 - Point out the security implications. - A law officer? 35 00:03:03,357 --> 00:03:06,827 No. Can't be a political confrontation. Has to be an official. 36 00:03:06,997 --> 00:03:11,309 Somebody with responsibility for security. 37 00:03:11,477 --> 00:03:14,355 (MUTTERS) Somebody with responsibility... 38 00:03:14,997 --> 00:03:19,309 No, no, no, no, Prime Minister, no! She's a monster! 39 00:03:19,477 --> 00:03:24,870 No, i-i-it's up to Scotland Yard, the Home Office, the Security Branch, er, Special Branch, I mean, 40 00:03:25,037 --> 00:03:29,713 the... the Ml5, the Lord Chancellor, Department of the Environment... 41 00:03:29,877 --> 00:03:32,949 - The White Fish Authority? - White Fish... No, no, no! 42 00:03:33,117 --> 00:03:36,314 - Don't you coordinate the security services? - Yes, yes... 43 00:03:36,477 --> 00:03:41,187 - Or should we give that job to someone else? - No, no, no, no, no. 44 00:03:41,357 --> 00:03:45,396 That's agreed, then. A quiet word. Come to a gentlemen's agreement. 45 00:03:45,557 --> 00:03:47,752 But she's not a gentleman! 46 00:03:47,917 --> 00:03:49,908 She's not even a lady! 47 00:03:50,917 --> 00:03:54,068 I want YOU to handle her. Come on. 48 00:03:55,317 --> 00:03:57,114 Handle her? 49 00:04:01,637 --> 00:04:05,425 - Agnes Moorhouse to see you, Sir Humphrey. - Right. 50 00:04:08,717 --> 00:04:14,792 Oh, my dear lady, how very nice to meet you. Come in. Won't you come and sit down? Now... 51 00:04:16,717 --> 00:04:22,474 Um... right... Would you get Miss Moorhouse a cup of tea. Or is it Mrs Moorhouse? 52 00:04:23,077 --> 00:04:26,467 - Is my marital status really your concern? - Er, no, no. 53 00:04:26,637 --> 00:04:30,391 It's just... You know, I was just... worried about whether the... er... 54 00:04:30,557 --> 00:04:33,549 Er, would you get... her a cup of tea? 55 00:04:35,557 --> 00:04:40,392 - What should I call you? Ms Moorhouse? - Call me Agnes. What shall I call you? 56 00:04:40,557 --> 00:04:42,388 Um... 57 00:04:42,557 --> 00:04:45,276 ...well, you can call me Sir Humphrey. 58 00:04:45,437 --> 00:04:47,428 Now, my dear lady... 59 00:04:48,437 --> 00:04:53,113 I'm not your "dear lady". Don't patronise me and cut out the sexist crap, OK? 60 00:04:56,717 --> 00:04:58,947 Er... OK, Agnes. 61 00:04:59,117 --> 00:05:03,508 I wanted us to have this meeting so we could try and understand one another. 62 00:05:03,677 --> 00:05:06,111 - I'm sure we're in agreement. - Really? 63 00:05:06,277 --> 00:05:09,474 You have your own views about how Britain should be run, 64 00:05:09,637 --> 00:05:13,186 but I'm sure we agree on a fundamental basis of order and authority. 65 00:05:13,357 --> 00:05:15,791 - That's half true. - Half true? 66 00:05:15,957 --> 00:05:19,393 - You agree, I don't. - But it's obvious! 67 00:05:19,557 --> 00:05:24,756 Yes, if you've got it made under this system, you use authority to preserve your privileges. 68 00:05:24,917 --> 00:05:28,307 What about the homeless, the unemployed, the poor? 69 00:05:28,477 --> 00:05:30,433 I know all about them. 70 00:05:30,597 --> 00:05:33,794 - (HUMPHREY CHUCKLES) - Really? What do you know? 71 00:05:33,957 --> 00:05:38,348 I've read all the published papers. I've seen all the statistics. 72 00:05:38,517 --> 00:05:41,554 Believe me, dear lady... Agnes, I... I... 73 00:05:42,917 --> 00:05:45,909 - I do know all about them. - Fine. 74 00:05:46,077 --> 00:05:49,069 What does half a pound of margarine cost? 75 00:05:49,877 --> 00:05:53,472 - What? - What does half a pound of margarine cost? 76 00:05:53,637 --> 00:05:56,071 Oh... er... How should I know? Er... 20p. 77 00:05:56,237 --> 00:06:00,310 - 20p?! - �2.40! I don't know! 78 00:06:00,477 --> 00:06:04,675 Right. Why should you? What time do Social Security offices open? 79 00:06:06,997 --> 00:06:10,512 How long can you run a one-bar fire with 50 pence in the meter? 80 00:06:10,677 --> 00:06:12,668 I'm not entirely sure I follow. 81 00:06:12,837 --> 00:06:17,865 If you knew that, you wouldn't agree about using authority to support the system. 82 00:06:18,037 --> 00:06:22,508 I do understand. I do sympathise. It'd be marvellous if there was no poverty. 83 00:06:22,677 --> 00:06:26,147 - But we haven't the resources to achieve that. - Who hasn't? 84 00:06:26,317 --> 00:06:29,309 - The nation. - Really? 85 00:06:30,837 --> 00:06:34,830 Does this desk belong to the nation? This china? 86 00:06:34,997 --> 00:06:38,034 - Porcelain. - Porcelain. 87 00:06:38,197 --> 00:06:42,987 - These portraits? Or are they your own? - They're government property. 88 00:06:43,157 --> 00:06:46,752 Oh, good. They should fetch about - what? - 80,000. 89 00:06:46,917 --> 00:06:50,876 That'll keep 20 one-parent families for a year. What about your salary? 90 00:06:51,037 --> 00:06:55,428 - That has nothing to do with it! - Good, then we'll have that, too. 91 00:06:55,597 --> 00:06:59,192 Leave you �100 a week. That's 70,000 a year for the needy. 92 00:06:59,357 --> 00:07:03,475 My salary is merely part of a complex economic structure. 93 00:07:03,637 --> 00:07:05,434 We'll simplify it. 94 00:07:05,597 --> 00:07:10,512 After all, you don't want to make a profit out of serving your country, do you? 95 00:07:13,837 --> 00:07:15,634 Ah, tea. 96 00:07:16,477 --> 00:07:19,196 Over here, Eileen. Um... 97 00:07:19,357 --> 00:07:22,952 How very nice. Thank you so much. Shall I be mother? 98 00:07:28,517 --> 00:07:31,395 Tell me, um... Agnes... 99 00:07:31,557 --> 00:07:36,506 ...this policy of yours of only allowing free-range eggs 100 00:07:36,677 --> 00:07:39,749 to be sold in your borough, how does this help poverty? 101 00:07:39,917 --> 00:07:45,230 Animals have rights too, you know. A battery chicken's life isn't worth living. 102 00:07:45,397 --> 00:07:50,232 Would you want to spend your life packed in with 600 other squawking, smelly creatures, 103 00:07:50,397 --> 00:07:54,185 unable to breathe fresh air, unable to move, unable to think? 104 00:07:54,357 --> 00:07:58,111 Certainly not. That's why I never stood for Parliament. 105 00:07:59,597 --> 00:08:01,394 - Sugar? - No, thank you. 106 00:08:01,557 --> 00:08:05,755 Now, let's turn to this matter of the police. 107 00:08:05,917 --> 00:08:10,991 You want to withhold funds from the police, ban them from council property, 108 00:08:11,157 --> 00:08:14,945 sack the Chief Constable, and allow several no-go areas. 109 00:08:15,117 --> 00:08:18,826 - That's it. - But can't you see 110 00:08:18,997 --> 00:08:23,707 that an adequate police enforcement is in all our interests? 111 00:08:23,877 --> 00:08:28,792 And it is especially in the interests of all those poor, ordinary folk 112 00:08:28,957 --> 00:08:32,029 who dwell in the high-crime housing estates. 113 00:08:32,197 --> 00:08:34,506 - I don't accept that. - Oh. 114 00:08:34,677 --> 00:08:38,750 You want them to be in danger of being mugged and raped and bombed? 115 00:08:38,917 --> 00:08:42,114 - Can't be helped. - But this could lead to the overthrow 116 00:08:42,277 --> 00:08:46,668 - of our system of government, our way of life! - Yours, not theirs. 117 00:08:46,837 --> 00:08:49,829 - You would be happy to abolish Parliament? - Yes. 118 00:08:49,997 --> 00:08:51,794 - The courts? - Yes. 119 00:08:51,957 --> 00:08:54,517 - The monarchy?! - Of course. 120 00:08:55,517 --> 00:09:00,671 Perhaps you'd like to burn down my office! That matches are over here! 121 00:09:00,837 --> 00:09:03,351 - No, certainly not. - Why? 122 00:09:04,677 --> 00:09:06,668 I may need it. 123 00:09:09,997 --> 00:09:12,272 - You know that Agnes Moorhouse woman? - Yes? 124 00:09:12,437 --> 00:09:16,715 - I told Humphrey to have a word with her. - Interesting experiment. 125 00:09:16,877 --> 00:09:21,905 He says it went well, but he didn't want to talk about it and had four whiskies in ten minutes. 126 00:09:22,717 --> 00:09:24,912 What is it about local government? 127 00:09:25,077 --> 00:09:30,071 I've had trouble with the town hall. They've cancelled the old people's Christmas party. 128 00:09:30,237 --> 00:09:34,116 - Why? - New staff overtime agreements. 129 00:09:34,277 --> 00:09:38,748 "It's your husband's fault. Tell him to give us the money and you can have the party." 130 00:09:38,917 --> 00:09:43,911 Every piece of stupidity and incompetence in every town hall in Britain is blamed on me. 131 00:09:44,077 --> 00:09:46,068 - (DOORBELL) - That'll be Dorothy. 132 00:09:46,237 --> 00:09:52,028 I asked her up here to have a word about that very thing. Dorothy, come in. 133 00:09:52,197 --> 00:09:57,191 Come and sit down. Now, tell me, what is wrong with local government? 134 00:09:57,357 --> 00:10:00,030 Well, it's a them-and-us situation. 135 00:10:00,197 --> 00:10:04,190 - The local authority ought to be us. - Us the people or us the government? 136 00:10:04,357 --> 00:10:08,350 - In a democracy that ought to be the same thing. - We all know it isn't. 137 00:10:08,517 --> 00:10:12,510 I mean us, the people. They ought to be running things for us. 138 00:10:12,677 --> 00:10:18,070 But they're running things for them. For their power, their convenience and their benefit. 139 00:10:18,237 --> 00:10:20,705 - I know that. - So what's the answer? 140 00:10:20,877 --> 00:10:23,914 - Fight them. - No. Make them us. 141 00:10:24,077 --> 00:10:27,706 - How do you mean? - How do you stop a major government project? 142 00:10:27,877 --> 00:10:29,868 Join the Civil Service. 143 00:10:31,117 --> 00:10:33,153 If you're an ordinary person. 144 00:10:33,317 --> 00:10:38,550 - I can't remember what that was like. - Judging from opinion polls, you'll soon find out. 145 00:10:38,717 --> 00:10:42,949 - Just imagine you're an ordinary person, Jim. - Well, I'll try. 146 00:10:43,117 --> 00:10:48,316 Imagine you want to stop a road-widening scheme or an airport being built. What do you do? 147 00:10:48,477 --> 00:10:51,037 - Write to your MP. - That does the trick? 148 00:10:51,197 --> 00:10:55,827 Of course not, but that's what ordinary people do 'cause ordinary people are stupid. 149 00:10:55,997 --> 00:10:59,785 - Is that why they elected you? - Stop barracking, darling, please. 150 00:10:59,957 --> 00:11:02,755 I'm trying to understand what Dorothy's driving at. 151 00:11:02,917 --> 00:11:07,069 Ordinary people form a group to fight official plans they don't want 152 00:11:07,237 --> 00:11:09,956 and this group represents the local people. 153 00:11:10,117 --> 00:11:12,915 This group is different from the local authority 154 00:11:13,077 --> 00:11:16,831 because the local authority doesn't really represent the local people. 155 00:11:16,997 --> 00:11:21,388 - Why not? - Councillors are all drawn from tiny local parties. 156 00:11:21,557 --> 00:11:25,755 When a local community really cares about an issue, they form a committee, 157 00:11:25,917 --> 00:11:29,910 and then they talk to people in the supermarkets and on the doorstep. 158 00:11:30,077 --> 00:11:32,511 They drum up support and raise money. 159 00:11:32,677 --> 00:11:38,070 And this money isn't like the rates. It's spent on what people actually want it spent on. 160 00:11:38,237 --> 00:11:42,389 I bet ordinary people would like the old folks to have a Christmas party. 161 00:11:42,557 --> 00:11:45,355 The town hall would rather have a new town hall 162 00:11:45,517 --> 00:11:49,032 or a councillors' fact-finding mission to the Bahamas. 163 00:11:49,197 --> 00:11:52,507 - What do you do? - It's obvious. Abolish them. 164 00:11:52,677 --> 00:11:55,475 Invest all power in the central government. 165 00:11:55,637 --> 00:11:59,391 - That's exactly what Humphrey would say. - See? What? 166 00:11:59,557 --> 00:12:03,755 Jim, you've completely missed the point of everything I've been saying. 167 00:12:03,917 --> 00:12:09,549 The idea is to return power to ordinary people and take it away from the town-hall machine. 168 00:12:09,717 --> 00:12:13,392 - Make local government genuinely accountable. - Yes, but how? 169 00:12:13,557 --> 00:12:17,869 It's all in an article in this month's "Political Review" by Professor Marriott. 170 00:12:18,037 --> 00:12:20,835 Now, you create little voting districts. 171 00:12:20,997 --> 00:12:25,991 200 or so households electing their own little parish council, a city village. 172 00:12:26,157 --> 00:12:31,709 The chairman of this little parish council is their representative on the local authority. 173 00:12:31,877 --> 00:12:34,835 You'd have about 500 councillors to each borough. 174 00:12:34,997 --> 00:12:38,194 That's right. So they'd elect an executive council. 175 00:12:38,357 --> 00:12:41,747 The local authority would have a parliament and a cabinet. 176 00:12:41,917 --> 00:12:45,114 Parliament don't elect the Cabinet. We don't want that. 177 00:12:45,277 --> 00:12:49,589 - That'd be taking participation to extreme lengths. - These councils would. 178 00:12:49,757 --> 00:12:54,990 Each councillor would be in door-to-door contact with the people who voted for him. 179 00:12:55,157 --> 00:12:59,628 Dorothy, this could be like the Great Reform Act of 1832. 180 00:12:59,797 --> 00:13:02,709 These councils are like old rotten boroughs. 181 00:13:02,877 --> 00:13:07,029 Half a dozen people deciding who'll be in the town hall for the next four years. 182 00:13:07,197 --> 00:13:10,633 - Precisely. - And I shall be the great reformer! 183 00:13:11,997 --> 00:13:14,989 Hacker's Reform Bill. I shall introduce it myself. 184 00:13:16,157 --> 00:13:19,945 The power of this country does not lie in offices and institutions, 185 00:13:20,117 --> 00:13:25,237 it lies in the stout hearts and strong wills of the yeomen of Britain! 186 00:13:25,397 --> 00:13:28,195 Women have the vote, too! 187 00:13:28,357 --> 00:13:30,348 The yeowomen of Britain. 188 00:13:31,357 --> 00:13:34,155 Yeopersons. Yeopeople? No. 189 00:13:34,317 --> 00:13:37,115 ...the people of this island race. 190 00:13:37,277 --> 00:13:39,472 On their broad and wise shoulders... 191 00:13:39,637 --> 00:13:41,673 You can't have wise shoulders. 192 00:13:41,837 --> 00:13:47,070 On their broad shoulders and wise hearts... heads... 193 00:13:47,237 --> 00:13:50,547 In their wise heads lies our destiny. 194 00:13:50,717 --> 00:13:53,515 We must give back power to the people! 195 00:13:53,677 --> 00:13:56,987 And I shall be the one to introduce this... um... 196 00:13:57,157 --> 00:13:59,307 What shall I call this new scheme? 197 00:13:59,477 --> 00:14:01,627 Democracy? 198 00:14:05,997 --> 00:14:08,989 - You wanted to see me? - Oh, yes, Bernard. 199 00:14:09,157 --> 00:14:13,628 Bernard, I want to have a word with you about Professor Marriott's article. 200 00:14:13,797 --> 00:14:16,994 - I think it's time we reformed local government. - Do you? 201 00:14:17,157 --> 00:14:18,954 Yes. 202 00:14:21,237 --> 00:14:23,228 At least I think I did. 203 00:14:24,477 --> 00:14:27,071 That is, I'm not wholly against it. 204 00:14:28,077 --> 00:14:34,107 Although there are many... convincing, some might say conclusive, arguments against it. 205 00:14:34,277 --> 00:14:36,666 Some might indeed, Bernard. 206 00:14:36,837 --> 00:14:38,589 Yes. Why? 207 00:14:38,757 --> 00:14:40,827 Because once you create 208 00:14:40,997 --> 00:14:45,388 genuinely democratic local communities, it won't stop there. 209 00:14:45,557 --> 00:14:48,594 - Won't it? - Well, of course it won't. 210 00:14:48,757 --> 00:14:53,956 You see, once they get established, they'll insist on more power. 211 00:14:54,117 --> 00:14:58,872 Politicians will be too frightened to withhold them, so you'll get regional government. 212 00:14:59,037 --> 00:15:03,030 - Would that matter? - Bernard, come and sit down. 213 00:15:04,317 --> 00:15:09,027 What happens at the moment if there is some vacant land in, say, Nottingham 214 00:15:09,197 --> 00:15:13,156 and there are rival proposals for its use - hospital, college, airport? 215 00:15:13,317 --> 00:15:19,506 We set up an inter-departmental committee. Health, Education, Transport, Environment. 216 00:15:19,677 --> 00:15:24,228 Ask for papers, hold meetings, propose, discuss, revise, report back, re-draft. 217 00:15:24,397 --> 00:15:27,787 Precisely. Months of fruitful work. 218 00:15:29,717 --> 00:15:32,709 Leading to a mature and responsible conclusion. 219 00:15:32,877 --> 00:15:37,268 But if you have regional government, they decide it all in Nottingham! 220 00:15:37,437 --> 00:15:41,225 Probably in a couple of meetings! Complete amateurs! 221 00:15:41,397 --> 00:15:44,628 - It is their city. - And what happens to us? 222 00:15:44,797 --> 00:15:48,949 - Well, much less work. - Yes, much less work! 223 00:15:49,117 --> 00:15:54,589 So little that ministers might be able to do it on their own, so we'd have much less power! 224 00:15:55,277 --> 00:15:57,313 I don't know if I want power. 225 00:15:57,477 --> 00:16:01,072 If the right people don't have power, know what happens? 226 00:16:01,237 --> 00:16:03,228 The wrong people get it! 227 00:16:04,637 --> 00:16:11,076 - Politicians, councillors, ordinary voters! - But aren't they supposed to in a democracy? 228 00:16:11,237 --> 00:16:16,027 - This is a British democracy, Bernard! - How do you mean? 229 00:16:16,197 --> 00:16:20,031 British democracy recognises that you need a system 230 00:16:20,197 --> 00:16:22,665 to protect the important things of life 231 00:16:22,837 --> 00:16:26,227 and keep them out of the hands of the barbarians! 232 00:16:28,357 --> 00:16:30,348 Things like the opera... 233 00:16:31,477 --> 00:16:33,274 ...Radio 3... 234 00:16:34,757 --> 00:16:37,317 ...the countryside... the law... 235 00:16:38,317 --> 00:16:40,353 ...the universities. 236 00:16:40,517 --> 00:16:42,508 Both of them. 237 00:16:45,037 --> 00:16:48,313 - And we are that system. - Gosh! 238 00:16:48,477 --> 00:16:52,470 We run a civilised, aristocratic government machine 239 00:16:52,637 --> 00:16:55,595 tempered by occasional general elections. 240 00:16:57,037 --> 00:17:02,430 Since 1832, we have been gradually excluding the voter from government. 241 00:17:02,597 --> 00:17:06,988 Now we've got them to a point where they just vote once every five years 242 00:17:07,157 --> 00:17:10,627 for which buffoons will try to interfere with OUR policies 243 00:17:10,797 --> 00:17:13,516 and you are happy to see all that thrown away? 244 00:17:13,677 --> 00:17:15,633 Well, no, no, I didn't mean... 245 00:17:15,797 --> 00:17:20,791 Bernard, do you want the Lake District turned into a gigantic caravan site? 246 00:17:21,797 --> 00:17:25,995 The Royal Opera House into a bingo hall? 247 00:17:26,997 --> 00:17:31,195 The National Theatre into a carpet sale warehouse? 248 00:17:31,357 --> 00:17:33,587 Well, it looks like one, actually. 249 00:17:35,877 --> 00:17:39,870 We gave the architect a knighthood so that nobody would ever say that. 250 00:17:43,637 --> 00:17:49,428 Do you want Radio 3 to broadcast pop music 24 hours a day? 251 00:17:49,597 --> 00:17:53,590 How would you feel if they took all the culture programmes off television? 252 00:17:53,757 --> 00:17:58,069 - I never watch them. - Neither do I, but it's vital to know they're there! 253 00:17:58,957 --> 00:18:02,154 You said local government was corrupt and incompetent. 254 00:18:02,317 --> 00:18:08,313 So it is, Bernard. So corrupt and incompetent that even ministers recognise it. 255 00:18:08,477 --> 00:18:11,071 Which means that they centralise. 256 00:18:11,237 --> 00:18:15,071 They give all the responsible jobs to us. 257 00:18:15,237 --> 00:18:19,435 We... are the flower of government, Bernard. 258 00:18:20,277 --> 00:18:23,075 Local government may be a dunghill... 259 00:18:24,357 --> 00:18:27,747 ...but it grows beautiful roses. 260 00:18:28,957 --> 00:18:30,754 You mean... 261 00:18:32,077 --> 00:18:34,193 Yes, that's right, Bernard. 262 00:18:34,357 --> 00:18:38,350 But if we try to clean up the dunghill 263 00:18:38,517 --> 00:18:42,112 and... lose our balance... 264 00:18:42,277 --> 00:18:46,065 - We land in the... - Thank you, Bernard. 265 00:18:49,157 --> 00:18:51,466 That's very good of you. Thank you. 266 00:18:53,357 --> 00:18:56,747 So you see why I'm so worried, Arnold. 267 00:18:56,917 --> 00:19:02,310 This Marriott scheme is the thin end of the wedge. It could eventually undermine the Civil Service. 268 00:19:02,477 --> 00:19:06,993 Oh, I don't think there's any danger of that. Not if you play it right. 269 00:19:08,317 --> 00:19:11,150 Hacker's just grasping at straws. 270 00:19:11,317 --> 00:19:16,550 It's the old logical fallacy. All cats have four legs. My dog has four legs... 271 00:19:17,557 --> 00:19:20,117 Therefore my dog is a cat. 272 00:19:21,317 --> 00:19:24,036 He's suffering from politician's logic. 273 00:19:24,197 --> 00:19:27,030 Something must be done therefore we must do it. 274 00:19:27,197 --> 00:19:30,394 But doing the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing. 275 00:19:30,557 --> 00:19:33,276 Doing anything is worse than doing nothing. 276 00:19:33,877 --> 00:19:38,905 After all, what is the one thing that obsesses politicians throughout their careers? 277 00:19:39,077 --> 00:19:44,026 Well, obviously publicity and popularity. Name in the paper, face on the telly. 278 00:19:44,197 --> 00:19:47,189 - Anything to help get them re-elected. - Quite. 279 00:19:47,357 --> 00:19:52,556 Government is fame and glory and importance and big offices and chauffeurs 280 00:19:52,717 --> 00:19:55,709 and being interviewed by Terry Wogan. 281 00:19:57,077 --> 00:20:00,672 Opposition is impotence and insignificance 282 00:20:00,837 --> 00:20:04,147 and people at parties asking you if you know Robin Day. 283 00:20:04,877 --> 00:20:11,191 But, Arnold, reforming the Civil Service might win them popularity. 284 00:20:11,997 --> 00:20:15,387 But it can't ever happen... can it, Humphrey? 285 00:20:16,397 --> 00:20:20,231 - Er... why not, Arnold? It's the same as in local government. 286 00:20:20,397 --> 00:20:24,868 Constituencies of 60,000 are far too big for people to know their MP. 287 00:20:25,037 --> 00:20:29,633 Electors make up their minds on the basis of the telly and the radio and the press. 288 00:20:29,797 --> 00:20:32,595 Yes, they pick their favourite party leader, 289 00:20:32,757 --> 00:20:38,548 then they vote for whatever clown a few people in their party have chosen as their candidate. 290 00:20:38,717 --> 00:20:43,154 - I do understand how the system works, Arnold. - But do you? 291 00:20:43,877 --> 00:20:49,031 Listen, Humphrey, if a politician lives or dies by his media image, 292 00:20:49,197 --> 00:20:53,031 then his survival depends on the Civil Service publicity machine 293 00:20:53,197 --> 00:21:00,069 helping him with his fatuous speeches and articles and photo opportunities. 294 00:21:00,237 --> 00:21:02,956 Politicians are dependent on us. 295 00:21:03,117 --> 00:21:07,508 A thousand press officers to publicise their little triumphs. 296 00:21:07,677 --> 00:21:12,273 The Official Secrets Act to conceal their daily disasters. 297 00:21:13,157 --> 00:21:16,945 So what you're saying is that under Professor Marriott's scheme, 298 00:21:17,117 --> 00:21:22,555 MPs would be elected on their local reputation rather than on their leader's media image. 299 00:21:22,717 --> 00:21:26,710 Yes, governments and ministers would have to earn their votes. 300 00:21:26,877 --> 00:21:31,189 Actually do what the electors want instead of leaving us to do it our way 301 00:21:31,357 --> 00:21:33,348 while they do the fame and glory bit. 302 00:21:34,237 --> 00:21:35,955 Frightening thought. 303 00:21:36,877 --> 00:21:40,187 Frightening to us, but what about the Prime Minister? 304 00:21:43,077 --> 00:21:45,545 Of course. Even more frightening. 305 00:21:45,717 --> 00:21:49,426 Reforming the Civil Service would remove his life-support system. 306 00:21:50,557 --> 00:21:53,947 It would kick away the ladder that's put him where he is. 307 00:21:54,117 --> 00:21:57,029 While he's still standing on it. 308 00:21:57,757 --> 00:21:59,748 That's right. 309 00:21:59,917 --> 00:22:05,037 The only way to reform the Civil Service system is to reform the political system. 310 00:22:05,197 --> 00:22:09,190 No government's going to reform the system that put it into power. 311 00:22:11,117 --> 00:22:14,905 The thing is to get the Prime Minister to see the danger. 312 00:22:15,077 --> 00:22:17,068 That's your job. 313 00:22:18,077 --> 00:22:23,549 I know. I'll tell him it'll be the most courageous thing he's ever done. 314 00:22:25,677 --> 00:22:27,872 That always does the trick. 315 00:22:29,197 --> 00:22:31,392 - (KNOCK AT DOOR) - Yes? 316 00:22:31,557 --> 00:22:35,755 - Agnes Moorhouse, Sir Humphrey. - Ah, Agnes. 317 00:22:35,917 --> 00:22:37,908 Why don't you sit over here? 318 00:22:40,397 --> 00:22:45,232 Agnes, the Prime Minister's really worried about your attitude to the police. 319 00:22:45,397 --> 00:22:46,989 Oh, good. 320 00:22:47,957 --> 00:22:53,554 So he's proposing a wholesale reform of local government. 321 00:22:54,277 --> 00:22:58,236 Street representatives, voting communities of 200 households, 322 00:22:58,397 --> 00:23:03,391 total involvement of the borough electorate in the selection of candidates. 323 00:23:03,557 --> 00:23:06,594 - This isn't serious? - Oh, I'm afraid it is. 324 00:23:08,677 --> 00:23:12,272 This strikes at the heart of our democratic social reforms. 325 00:23:12,437 --> 00:23:16,749 Do you mean the people don't want your policies? 326 00:23:16,917 --> 00:23:22,913 Of course they would if they could understand, but the ordinary voters are simple people. 327 00:23:23,077 --> 00:23:26,672 They don't see their needs. They can't analyse problems. 328 00:23:26,837 --> 00:23:29,556 They need leadership to guide them. 329 00:23:29,717 --> 00:23:33,596 And don't you think "the people" would vote for such leadership? 330 00:23:33,757 --> 00:23:40,708 - People don't understand what's good for them. - Oh... I do so agree with you. 331 00:23:41,397 --> 00:23:43,592 - Do you? - Of course! 332 00:23:43,757 --> 00:23:47,750 That's how the Civil Service has survived for centuries. 333 00:23:47,917 --> 00:23:52,195 We made this country what it is, but nobody would ever vote for us! 334 00:23:52,877 --> 00:23:56,347 - We know what's right for this country! - So do we! 335 00:23:56,517 --> 00:24:01,432 The only way is to have a small group in charge and let the people have a vote every few years. 336 00:24:01,597 --> 00:24:04,430 If they knew the people they were voting for... 337 00:24:04,597 --> 00:24:09,193 If they actually talked to them, they'd fall for all the silly conventional ideas! 338 00:24:10,077 --> 00:24:12,272 - Humphrey... - Agnes? 339 00:24:14,037 --> 00:24:16,471 This would be a disaster for you, too. 340 00:24:16,637 --> 00:24:18,548 I know. 341 00:24:18,717 --> 00:24:22,107 Community councils always lead to regional government. 342 00:24:22,277 --> 00:24:26,236 Agnes... we must stop the Prime Minister! 343 00:24:27,157 --> 00:24:30,945 - You want to stop him, too? - Of course. And you must help me. 344 00:24:31,117 --> 00:24:34,712 - How? - Well, I think I know how to do it. 345 00:24:34,877 --> 00:24:39,109 I want your written assurance that you will stop harassing your local police. 346 00:24:39,277 --> 00:24:43,589 I mean, stop making them democratically accountable to you. 347 00:24:43,757 --> 00:24:45,748 It will remove some of the urgency. 348 00:24:47,157 --> 00:24:49,990 Right. What do you want me to say? 349 00:24:50,157 --> 00:24:52,148 Well, I thought... 350 00:24:53,317 --> 00:24:55,911 ...it might go something like this. 351 00:25:01,197 --> 00:25:03,472 Oh, Humphrey... 352 00:25:04,477 --> 00:25:07,230 ...you're a great loss to the militant revolution. 353 00:25:08,917 --> 00:25:10,908 And you, my dear Agnes... 354 00:25:11,997 --> 00:25:14,795 ...are a great loss to the Civil Service. 355 00:25:22,357 --> 00:25:26,509 - Why does Humphrey want me to see Marriott? - He must have an ulterior motive. 356 00:25:26,677 --> 00:25:30,226 - Why? - All Humphrey's motives are ulterior. 357 00:25:30,397 --> 00:25:34,390 Has he, Bernard? What does Humphrey really think about this plan? 358 00:25:34,557 --> 00:25:36,752 Well, er... Well, I think... 359 00:25:36,917 --> 00:25:39,909 That is, I'm sure, if it's what you want... 360 00:25:40,077 --> 00:25:42,671 - I'm sure Sir Humphrey would... - (DOOR OPENS) 361 00:25:42,837 --> 00:25:45,715 - He would... er... - As bad as that? 362 00:25:46,677 --> 00:25:50,465 - Professor Marriott is outside. Will you see him? - Yes, of course. 363 00:25:50,637 --> 00:25:56,348 - Bernard, I wonder if you'd be kind enough. - What's your view of the Marriott plan? 364 00:25:56,517 --> 00:26:00,510 It is a brilliant way of bringing real democracy into the government of Britain. 365 00:26:00,677 --> 00:26:04,272 - So you're in favour? - That's not what he said. 366 00:26:04,437 --> 00:26:10,034 If you want real democratic government, you will have my unquestioning support. 367 00:26:11,757 --> 00:26:13,076 Professor Marriott. 368 00:26:13,237 --> 00:26:16,627 Professor, come in. Good of you to come. Do sit down. 369 00:26:16,797 --> 00:26:19,994 - What an honour to meet you. - Yes, I know. 370 00:26:21,917 --> 00:26:27,389 Professor Marriott has a sequel to his original article that's due to be published next month. 371 00:26:27,557 --> 00:26:30,754 It is even more exciting than the first one. 372 00:26:30,917 --> 00:26:35,752 - Tell me more, Professor. - Tell the PM about the benefits to Parliament. 373 00:26:35,917 --> 00:26:39,512 Well, as you know, under my local government scheme, 374 00:26:39,677 --> 00:26:43,955 each borough would have its 500 street representatives. 375 00:26:44,117 --> 00:26:48,633 This means the local MP would be able to talk to them all in one hall. 376 00:26:48,797 --> 00:26:50,594 They'd get to know him. 377 00:26:50,757 --> 00:26:55,194 And tell all the people in their street about him. Word-of-mouth recommendation. 378 00:26:55,357 --> 00:27:00,033 - Sounds terrific. - Where would the constituency party come in? 379 00:27:00,197 --> 00:27:02,188 Ah, that's the marvellous thing. 380 00:27:02,357 --> 00:27:05,827 Party organisations would be completely bypassed. 381 00:27:05,997 --> 00:27:09,706 - MPs would become genuinely independent. - What? 382 00:27:09,877 --> 00:27:14,871 If they were known to all their constituents or their committee representatives, 383 00:27:15,037 --> 00:27:19,986 then getting re-elected would be nothing to do with whether the party backed them or not 384 00:27:20,157 --> 00:27:23,706 but on whether the constituents felt they were doing a good job. 385 00:27:23,877 --> 00:27:26,869 If the MP wasn't dependent on his party machine, 386 00:27:27,037 --> 00:27:30,188 he could vote against his own party and get away with it. 387 00:27:30,357 --> 00:27:32,348 There'd be no official candidates. 388 00:27:32,517 --> 00:27:38,114 Election would depend on an MP's reputation, not the image of the party leader. 389 00:27:38,277 --> 00:27:42,065 An end of the party machine. An end to the power of the whips. 390 00:27:42,237 --> 00:27:47,630 How would the government gets its unpopular legislation through without twisting the odd arm? 391 00:27:47,797 --> 00:27:50,391 - How would it command a majority? - It couldn't. 392 00:27:50,557 --> 00:27:55,756 There could only be legislation if a majority of the MPs were actually in favour of it. 393 00:27:55,917 --> 00:27:58,590 Parliament would become genuinely democratic. 394 00:27:58,757 --> 00:28:04,593 Prime Minister, it is the most courageous policy you have ever proposed. 395 00:28:06,837 --> 00:28:10,034 Professor, thank you so much. Fascinating. Goodbye. 396 00:28:12,557 --> 00:28:14,946 Thank you, Prime Minister. 397 00:28:15,117 --> 00:28:17,551 Prime Minister, it's a splendid idea. 398 00:28:17,717 --> 00:28:20,754 - Real democracy. - It's out of the question. 399 00:28:20,917 --> 00:28:24,910 The Marriott scheme was our way of controlling the local authority. 400 00:28:25,077 --> 00:28:30,276 - What will we do about Agnes Moorhouse? - I've had another word with her. 401 00:28:30,437 --> 00:28:35,227 To put it simply, Prime Minister, certain informal discussions took place 402 00:28:35,397 --> 00:28:40,994 involving a full and frank exchange of views, out of which there arose a series of proposals 403 00:28:41,157 --> 00:28:44,866 which proved to indicate certain promising lines of inquiry, 404 00:28:45,037 --> 00:28:49,827 which, when pursued, led to the realisation that the alternative courses of action 405 00:28:49,997 --> 00:28:54,593 might, in fact, in certain circumstances, be susceptible of discreet modification, 406 00:28:54,757 --> 00:28:57,749 leading to a reappraisal of the areas of difference 407 00:28:57,917 --> 00:29:02,707 and pointing the way to encouraging possibilities of compromise and cooperation 408 00:29:02,877 --> 00:29:07,075 which, if bilaterally implemented with appropriate give and take on both sides, 409 00:29:07,237 --> 00:29:11,230 might, if the climate were right, have a possibility, at the end of the day, 410 00:29:11,397 --> 00:29:15,788 of leading, rightly or wrongly, to a mutually satisfactory resolution. 411 00:29:18,357 --> 00:29:20,825 What the hell are you talking about? 412 00:29:23,197 --> 00:29:25,188 We did a deal. 413 00:29:27,517 --> 00:29:32,307 Oddly enough, she didn't seem to like the idea of democracy any more than you. 414 00:29:32,477 --> 00:29:35,310 - Or you. - Quite so, dear lady. 415 00:29:35,477 --> 00:29:41,188 Well, I think we're all agreed that the nation isn't quite ready for total democracy. 416 00:29:41,357 --> 00:29:43,473 Perhaps... er... next century? 417 00:29:44,797 --> 00:29:48,585 Well, you could still be Prime Minister next century. 418 00:29:49,477 --> 00:29:52,435 - Well, the one after that. - Yes, Prime Minister.