1 00:00:01,670 --> 00:00:04,965 ♪ He's got the whole world in his hands ♪ 2 00:00:04,965 --> 00:00:09,678 ♪ He's got the whole world in his hands ♪ 3 00:00:09,678 --> 00:00:16,059 ♪ He's got the whole world in his ♪ 4 00:00:16,059 --> 00:00:20,897 ♪ Hands ♪♪ 5 00:00:33,243 --> 00:00:36,454 REPORTER (over TV): Oregon voters legalize psychedelic mushrooms. 6 00:00:36,454 --> 00:00:39,040 Oregon becomes the first entire state to do so. 7 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,710 MARIANA: For the first time in a long time, 8 00:00:41,710 --> 00:00:44,421 psychedelic drugs are creeping into the mainstream. 9 00:00:44,421 --> 00:00:46,673 REPORTER 2 (over TV): Some psychiatrists and researchers 10 00:00:46,673 --> 00:00:50,677 are giving psychedelic drugs a second look as a possible way of 11 00:00:50,677 --> 00:00:52,887 treating some mental illnesses. 12 00:00:52,887 --> 00:00:56,182 STEVE (over TV): Some tech workers are experimenting with LSD. 13 00:00:56,182 --> 00:00:57,976 The trend is called microdosing 14 00:00:57,976 --> 00:00:59,102 REPORTER (over TV): Microdosing 15 00:00:59,102 --> 00:01:00,895 REPORTER 2 (over TV): Microdosing. 16 00:01:00,895 --> 00:01:03,398 MARIANA: It's a psychedelics renaissance. 17 00:01:03,398 --> 00:01:04,774 STEVE (over TV): I had no idea this was still out there, 18 00:01:04,774 --> 00:01:05,984 that this was, 19 00:01:05,984 --> 00:01:07,444 this was something people were still doing. 20 00:01:07,444 --> 00:01:10,530 MARIANA: New users, new uses, and of course, 21 00:01:10,530 --> 00:01:13,617 a host of new celebrity endorsements. 22 00:01:13,617 --> 00:01:14,909 JADA: I was introduced ten years ago. 23 00:01:14,909 --> 00:01:15,952 ADRIENNE: Mm-hmm. 24 00:01:15,952 --> 00:01:17,287 JADA: To deal with my depression. 25 00:01:17,287 --> 00:01:19,080 ADRIENNE: Yeah. JADA: And it knocked it out. 26 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,041 ELON: People should be open to psych, psychedelics. 27 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:22,792 STING: I don't think psychedelics are the, 28 00:01:22,792 --> 00:01:24,836 the answer to the world's problems, 29 00:01:24,836 --> 00:01:27,005 but they could be a start. 30 00:01:27,005 --> 00:01:29,841 MARIANA: Still, US law classifies most psychedelics 31 00:01:29,841 --> 00:01:32,093 as Schedule I drugs. 32 00:01:32,093 --> 00:01:37,432 That means making, dealing, or using is highly illegal. 33 00:01:37,432 --> 00:01:41,603 So those seeking to cash in are also the ones willing to 34 00:01:41,603 --> 00:01:44,439 risk serious jail time. 35 00:01:46,232 --> 00:01:49,486 I want to understand what this psychedelic boom looks like from 36 00:01:49,486 --> 00:01:52,614 the underground, why it's happening now, 37 00:01:52,614 --> 00:01:56,576 and why these drugs have been vilified for so long. 38 00:01:59,454 --> 00:02:03,291 Which is how I find myself here. 39 00:02:03,666 --> 00:02:06,252 This is pretty out there. 40 00:02:06,252 --> 00:02:07,837 Pretty much in the middle of nowhere. 41 00:02:07,837 --> 00:02:10,924 I know virtually nothing about who I'm meeting. 42 00:02:10,924 --> 00:02:14,386 And only one thing about where I'm meeting him. 43 00:02:14,386 --> 00:02:17,055 (phone line ringing) 44 00:02:17,055 --> 00:02:19,933 They call it the Mushroom Mansion. 45 00:02:19,933 --> 00:02:21,226 X (over phone): Hello? 46 00:02:21,226 --> 00:02:22,769 MARIANA: Hi, I think I'm here. 47 00:02:22,769 --> 00:02:25,730 X (over phone): I'm right here, in the garage. 48 00:02:31,111 --> 00:02:33,196 MARIANA: How are you? I'm Mariana. 49 00:02:33,196 --> 00:02:34,656 So this is it, huh? 50 00:02:34,656 --> 00:02:36,699 X: Yup. 51 00:02:36,699 --> 00:02:38,034 MARIANA: We're going inside? 52 00:02:38,034 --> 00:02:40,495 X: Yup. 53 00:02:42,414 --> 00:02:44,124 And these are sterilizers. 54 00:02:44,124 --> 00:02:47,460 MARIANA: Oh. What's in here? 55 00:02:47,460 --> 00:02:50,547 X: Uh, this is an incubation room. 56 00:02:50,547 --> 00:02:53,091 MARIANA: Can I go in? X: Yeah. 57 00:02:53,091 --> 00:02:57,262 MARIANA: Wow. This space is crazy. 58 00:03:03,476 --> 00:03:05,186 There's a lot of bags here, huh? 59 00:03:05,186 --> 00:03:09,315 X: Yeah. Probably close to 200. 60 00:03:11,443 --> 00:03:13,653 MARIANA: And how long have you been growing mushrooms for? 61 00:03:13,653 --> 00:03:16,573 X: Uh, pretty consistently for the past five years. 62 00:03:16,573 --> 00:03:18,783 MARIANA: Give me an idea, a sense of how much money you make? 63 00:03:18,783 --> 00:03:20,994 X: We can do a couple hundred grand a month. 64 00:03:20,994 --> 00:03:22,537 Yeah. 65 00:03:22,537 --> 00:03:24,873 MARIANA: Wow, that's a lot of money. 66 00:03:24,873 --> 00:03:26,583 X: Like, consistently. Yeah. 67 00:03:26,583 --> 00:03:29,002 MARIANA: Out of this one house in the middle of nowhere, practically. 68 00:03:29,002 --> 00:03:31,212 X: Yeah. Yeah. Y: Yeah. 69 00:03:31,212 --> 00:03:32,881 MARIANA: Which part do you eat? You can eat the whole part? 70 00:03:32,881 --> 00:03:33,882 X: The whole thing. MARIANA: The whole thing? 71 00:03:33,882 --> 00:03:35,300 X: Mm-hmm. 72 00:03:35,300 --> 00:03:36,885 MARIANA: And this is pretty powerful? 73 00:03:36,885 --> 00:03:39,637 Y: This one is quite visual. 74 00:03:39,637 --> 00:03:44,350 Color, geometrics, fractals. 75 00:03:44,350 --> 00:03:47,937 MARIANA: It's not just mushrooms that are having a moment. 76 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,275 I've read that the demand for other types of mind-altering drugs 77 00:03:52,275 --> 00:03:54,944 like peyote, mescaline, ayahuasca, 78 00:03:54,944 --> 00:03:57,780 and DMT is also increasing. 79 00:03:57,780 --> 00:03:59,824 ♪ Little girl ♪♪ 80 00:03:59,824 --> 00:04:01,159 MARIANA: But I also know that not 81 00:04:01,159 --> 00:04:04,829 all mind-altering drugs are created equal. 82 00:04:04,829 --> 00:04:08,583 There's one that offers the biggest highs and, allegedly, 83 00:04:08,583 --> 00:04:11,669 some of the biggest profits. 84 00:04:11,669 --> 00:04:16,007 It's what some consider to be the holy grail of psychedelics. 85 00:04:16,007 --> 00:04:19,093 ♪ My heart just won't behave ♪♪ 86 00:04:19,093 --> 00:04:21,179 MARIANA: So do you know anything about LSD? 87 00:04:21,179 --> 00:04:25,934 X: Yes, I've eaten copious amounts of LSD. 88 00:04:25,934 --> 00:04:28,436 MARIANA: And do you know anything about the business side 89 00:04:28,436 --> 00:04:30,647 of it, or the making side of it? 90 00:04:30,647 --> 00:04:33,942 X: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 91 00:04:33,942 --> 00:04:36,486 MARIANA: Do you, do you make LSD? 92 00:04:36,486 --> 00:04:37,779 X: No, I do not. 93 00:04:37,779 --> 00:04:41,241 If I get caught doing this, it's not that bad. 94 00:04:41,241 --> 00:04:44,244 But if you get caught making LSD, you can do life in prison. 95 00:04:44,244 --> 00:04:45,662 MARIANA: Wow. 96 00:04:45,662 --> 00:04:47,622 There's a reason why even guys who sell 97 00:04:47,622 --> 00:04:52,126 a massive amount of drugs from a place called, "The Mushroom Mansion," 98 00:04:52,126 --> 00:04:58,508 wouldn't think of selling LSD and that reason is the 1960s. 99 00:04:59,801 --> 00:05:01,302 KENNEDY: We face, therefore, 100 00:05:01,302 --> 00:05:03,638 a moral crisis as a country and a people. 101 00:05:03,638 --> 00:05:06,349 (rapid gunfire) 102 00:05:10,645 --> 00:05:13,356 MARIANA: Historians talk about the '60s as a battle for 103 00:05:13,356 --> 00:05:14,816 the soul of America. 104 00:05:14,816 --> 00:05:18,152 ♪ Love still hurts my tired eyes ♪ 105 00:05:18,152 --> 00:05:21,197 ♪ 'Cause I refuse to pass you by ♪♪ 106 00:05:21,197 --> 00:05:25,451 MARIANA: But it was also a battle for the future of LSD. 107 00:05:25,451 --> 00:05:29,414 ♪ Peace in the garden of my mind ♪♪ 108 00:05:32,417 --> 00:05:35,795 MARIANA: Researchers had high hopes that LSD might unlock 109 00:05:35,795 --> 00:05:38,506 the mystery of mental illness. 110 00:05:38,506 --> 00:05:42,260 The CIA thought it had potential as a mind-control weapon against 111 00:05:42,260 --> 00:05:44,220 Cold War enemies. 112 00:05:44,220 --> 00:05:48,182 And out in San Francisco, LSD was at the heart of a growing 113 00:05:48,182 --> 00:05:53,354 counterculture movement that was anti-war and anti-establishment. 114 00:05:53,688 --> 00:05:58,151 TIMOTHY: Turn on, tune in, drop out. 115 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,696 MARIANA: The controversy landed LSD on the cover of 116 00:06:01,696 --> 00:06:04,907 Life magazine in 1966. 117 00:06:04,907 --> 00:06:07,493 The article read, "The genie of LSD, 118 00:06:07,493 --> 00:06:11,915 with all its tantalizing possibilities for good and evil, 119 00:06:11,915 --> 00:06:14,125 is out in the open." 120 00:06:14,125 --> 00:06:16,544 But it wasn't out in the open for long. 121 00:06:16,544 --> 00:06:20,715 Ultimately, the country's conservative impulses won the day. 122 00:06:20,715 --> 00:06:21,925 REPORTER: There is a relationship between 123 00:06:21,925 --> 00:06:24,093 taking dope and protesting. 124 00:06:24,093 --> 00:06:27,347 MARIANA: Acid got stigmatized. Hippies got marginalized. 125 00:06:27,347 --> 00:06:31,392 And then in 1969, if the drug’s fate wasn't sealed already, 126 00:06:31,392 --> 00:06:33,603 the Nightly News introduced America to 127 00:06:33,603 --> 00:06:36,397 LSD's most infamous users. 128 00:06:36,397 --> 00:06:37,982 REPORTER (over TV): Friday night, in Los Angeles, 129 00:06:37,982 --> 00:06:41,069 a movie actress and four of her friends were murdered. 130 00:06:41,069 --> 00:06:43,029 The circumstances were lurid. 131 00:06:43,029 --> 00:06:45,740 REPORTER 2 (over TV): Police said they were a pseudo-religious cult. 132 00:06:45,740 --> 00:06:47,825 People who worked on the ranch said 133 00:06:47,825 --> 00:06:50,536 they were heavy users of drugs. 134 00:06:51,537 --> 00:06:55,958 MARIANA: Charles Manson was a proverbial nail in LSD's coffin. 135 00:06:55,958 --> 00:06:59,003 MANSON: If I started murdering people, 136 00:06:59,003 --> 00:07:01,339 there'd be none of you left. 137 00:07:01,339 --> 00:07:03,925 MARIANA: He was also further justification for 138 00:07:03,925 --> 00:07:06,302 Richard Nixon's war on drugs. 139 00:07:06,302 --> 00:07:10,264 NIXON: America's public enemy number one in the United States 140 00:07:10,264 --> 00:07:12,684 is drug abuse. 141 00:07:13,518 --> 00:07:16,062 MARIANA: It was a decade that drove the drug and the chemists 142 00:07:16,062 --> 00:07:18,690 making it deep underground. 143 00:07:18,690 --> 00:07:22,944 More than half a century later, that's where they remain. 144 00:07:25,029 --> 00:07:28,282 ♪ ♪ 145 00:07:37,375 --> 00:07:42,714 (phone line ringing) 146 00:07:45,758 --> 00:07:49,303 He's not answering his phone. 147 00:07:49,804 --> 00:07:51,347 So we're following this car. 148 00:07:51,347 --> 00:07:54,684 He's a, a guy in there, who knows we're following him, 149 00:07:54,684 --> 00:07:59,856 who's going around downtown Vancouver selling LSD tonight. 150 00:07:59,856 --> 00:08:02,734 He's gonna purchase some more from his supplier. 151 00:08:02,734 --> 00:08:06,446 What we're trying, really trying to do is get to his supplier. 152 00:08:06,863 --> 00:08:09,741 I'm in Vancouver, where one of my sources has connected me with 153 00:08:09,741 --> 00:08:12,118 a street-level LSD dealer. 154 00:08:12,118 --> 00:08:13,953 (phone line ringing) 155 00:08:17,665 --> 00:08:20,376 MARIANA: Uh, so we're still following you. 156 00:08:20,376 --> 00:08:22,754 Are you meeting this person at their house or? 157 00:08:25,089 --> 00:08:28,009 MARIANA: Okay. So when we get there, where do you want us to be? 158 00:08:41,814 --> 00:08:43,524 MARIANA: Shoot. 159 00:08:43,524 --> 00:08:46,778 So I think it's here and he's asked us not to be seen. 160 00:08:46,778 --> 00:08:50,031 Just keep rolling. Just keep rolling, guys. 161 00:08:54,410 --> 00:08:56,329 Yeah, so it's happening right there. 162 00:08:56,329 --> 00:08:57,955 See he's coming out of the car? 163 00:08:57,955 --> 00:08:59,791 He's just crossing the street. 164 00:08:59,791 --> 00:09:03,002 He's going into a house, I think. 165 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,512 (knocking) 166 00:09:12,512 --> 00:09:13,638 WOMAN: Hey. RAM DASS: How are you? 167 00:09:13,638 --> 00:09:14,639 WOMAN: Good, how are you? 168 00:09:21,687 --> 00:09:23,064 (siren blaring) 169 00:09:23,064 --> 00:09:24,690 MARIANA: Is this an ambulance siren, or police? 170 00:09:28,152 --> 00:09:29,737 MARIANA: Do you guys hear the cops? 171 00:09:31,989 --> 00:09:32,990 WOMAN: You betcha. 172 00:09:32,990 --> 00:09:34,951 MARIANA: Is he coming out? 173 00:09:34,951 --> 00:09:37,453 He is. He's coming out. 174 00:09:37,453 --> 00:09:39,288 Is he? 175 00:09:39,288 --> 00:09:41,666 Okay, he's walking towards us now. 176 00:09:45,545 --> 00:09:49,215 Hi. So is that, is that what you just bought? 177 00:09:52,927 --> 00:09:54,220 MARIANA: Can I see it? 178 00:09:58,766 --> 00:10:01,143 MARIANA: Oh, wow. 179 00:10:01,143 --> 00:10:02,645 Yeah, it's a reference to the Grateful Dead, right? 180 00:10:02,645 --> 00:10:03,646 The dancing bear? 181 00:10:05,356 --> 00:10:06,399 MARIANA: So, how many doses are in this? 182 00:10:09,944 --> 00:10:12,989 MARIANA: Mm-hmm. Sorry, we're just making sure that there's no, 183 00:10:12,989 --> 00:10:14,448 we were hearing cops before. 184 00:10:14,448 --> 00:10:16,284 Got nervous when I heard it. 185 00:10:17,660 --> 00:10:20,288 MARIANA: What would happen if the, the police found you with this stuff? 186 00:10:20,288 --> 00:10:21,914 If you're driving off now in your car and 187 00:10:21,914 --> 00:10:23,165 the police stops you and found this stuff? 188 00:10:30,506 --> 00:10:31,507 MARIANA: You'd get time? 189 00:10:35,303 --> 00:10:36,554 MARIANA: And so why do you do it? Why risk it? 190 00:10:37,889 --> 00:10:38,890 MARIANA: Right. 191 00:10:39,849 --> 00:10:41,100 MARIANA: How much did you buy it for? 192 00:10:43,144 --> 00:10:44,937 RAM DASS: On it. 193 00:10:44,937 --> 00:10:45,146 MARIANA: How much can you sell it for? How much money do you make? 194 00:11:01,954 --> 00:11:03,164 MARIANA: That's good money. Why did you agree to talk to us? 195 00:11:13,925 --> 00:11:16,594 MARIANA: So you truly believe that by selling LSD, 196 00:11:16,594 --> 00:11:18,262 by selling acid, you're helping people. 197 00:11:26,854 --> 00:11:29,231 MARIANA: I've reported on a lot of drugs in my career, 198 00:11:29,231 --> 00:11:31,859 but I've never had a cocaine or heroin dealer 199 00:11:31,859 --> 00:11:35,029 talk about the benefits of using. 200 00:11:35,029 --> 00:11:37,823 The people I'm meeting in this psychedelic trade seem to 201 00:11:37,823 --> 00:11:39,951 be a different breed. 202 00:11:39,951 --> 00:11:42,536 Dealers and believers. 203 00:11:42,536 --> 00:11:45,623 There's somebody supplying the person that just sold you with the LSD? 204 00:11:52,004 --> 00:11:53,047 MARIANA: A chemist? 205 00:11:55,591 --> 00:11:56,842 MARIANA: A hippie. 206 00:12:01,639 --> 00:12:03,099 MARIANA: I push for more details, 207 00:12:03,099 --> 00:12:05,518 but that's all he's got. 208 00:12:06,477 --> 00:12:09,271 I'm not surprised. 209 00:12:09,271 --> 00:12:13,275 Supply chains are often compartmentalized like this. 210 00:12:13,275 --> 00:12:16,028 That way, if low-level dealers get caught, 211 00:12:16,028 --> 00:12:18,656 they don't endanger the key players. 212 00:12:18,656 --> 00:12:23,327 But, to be honest, I'm getting the sense that this LSD supply chain 213 00:12:23,327 --> 00:12:25,997 isn't like others I've reported on. 214 00:12:25,997 --> 00:12:29,041 So I decide I need to do a bit more digging. 215 00:12:30,001 --> 00:12:32,670 MAN: Really difficult to get people to, to open up. 216 00:12:32,670 --> 00:12:35,464 More so than any other drug that I've ever researched, 217 00:12:35,464 --> 00:12:39,135 the people that I've spoken to are almost evangelical about the drug. 218 00:12:39,135 --> 00:12:40,636 MARIANA: I talk to journalists. 219 00:12:40,636 --> 00:12:45,266 MAN: This drug is not really motivated by money, necessarily. 220 00:12:46,225 --> 00:12:48,728 MARK: I've heard that there are very few chemists. 221 00:12:48,728 --> 00:12:50,438 MARIANA: I talk to researchers. 222 00:12:50,438 --> 00:12:52,273 MARK: It's a, it's a hard thing to make. 223 00:12:52,273 --> 00:12:54,650 The underground manufactures and sells, 224 00:12:54,650 --> 00:12:57,361 and often they sell it to therapists who are making 225 00:12:57,361 --> 00:12:59,238 this service available. 226 00:12:59,238 --> 00:13:01,824 MARIANA: But if you actually want to try LSD anywhere in the world right now, 227 00:13:01,824 --> 00:13:03,701 you are doing something completely illegal? 228 00:13:03,701 --> 00:13:05,828 MARK: Absolutely. Yes. 229 00:13:06,162 --> 00:13:08,539 MARIANA: I talk to other psychedelic dealers. 230 00:13:08,539 --> 00:13:10,207 LUCY: With psychedelics and within the community, 231 00:13:10,207 --> 00:13:12,168 people that know won't talk and 232 00:13:12,168 --> 00:13:14,378 the people that talk don't know. 233 00:13:15,629 --> 00:13:18,549 MARIANA: I even head to my first Grateful Dead show, 234 00:13:18,549 --> 00:13:21,093 to try and make some connections. 235 00:13:26,724 --> 00:13:29,185 The parking lot feels like spring break for 236 00:13:29,185 --> 00:13:31,937 the psychedelics crowd. 237 00:13:31,937 --> 00:13:33,439 Is it easy to find here? 238 00:13:33,439 --> 00:13:35,107 BEN: It's very easy to find here. 239 00:13:35,107 --> 00:13:37,693 You could probably find it within, like, two minutes. 240 00:13:37,693 --> 00:13:38,736 Just stand out in front of my booth. 241 00:13:38,736 --> 00:13:39,820 Yeah. 242 00:13:39,820 --> 00:13:41,280 It'll come, it'll come through. 243 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,574 MARIANA: You, you saw, I just saw the police car going 244 00:13:43,574 --> 00:13:44,575 back and forth here. 245 00:13:44,575 --> 00:13:45,785 BEN: Yeah. Yeah. 246 00:13:45,785 --> 00:13:46,660 MARIANA: So they know that this is happening? 247 00:13:46,660 --> 00:13:49,538 BEN: 100%. 100%. 248 00:13:49,538 --> 00:13:51,582 MAN: I got gummy bears edibles guys! 249 00:13:51,582 --> 00:13:54,668 Get them all just for $10. Get them while they're cold. 250 00:13:56,504 --> 00:13:59,173 MARIANA: Eventually I find my guy, who I'm told 251 00:13:59,173 --> 00:14:02,009 is a major player. 252 00:14:02,009 --> 00:14:05,054 He's wearing a bacon and eggs mask and 253 00:14:05,054 --> 00:14:08,766 his head is covered in beans. 254 00:14:16,774 --> 00:14:23,155 ♪ ♪ 255 00:14:23,489 --> 00:14:24,615 SPARKLES: So. 256 00:14:24,615 --> 00:14:25,908 MARIANA: Do you always put on gloves? 257 00:14:25,908 --> 00:14:26,992 SPARKLES: Yeah, it's pretty easy to get stung, 258 00:14:26,992 --> 00:14:29,078 if you know what I mean. 259 00:14:30,246 --> 00:14:31,872 So this is all liquid acid. 260 00:14:31,872 --> 00:14:34,875 All these vials here, this is all LSD. 261 00:14:34,875 --> 00:14:36,961 MARIANA: And each one of these little squares is a dose? 262 00:14:36,961 --> 00:14:38,379 SPARKLES: It's a hit of acid, yeah. 263 00:14:38,379 --> 00:14:39,630 MARIANA: Yeah. And this one? This one is free, right? 264 00:14:39,630 --> 00:14:41,048 It doesn't have any. 265 00:14:41,048 --> 00:14:43,050 SPARKLES: Yeah, that one doesn't have any acid on it. 266 00:14:44,969 --> 00:14:46,470 MARIANA: Does it smell like anything? 267 00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:49,014 SPARKLES: I mean, not really. It's diluted with alcohol. 268 00:14:49,014 --> 00:14:50,933 MARIANA: Yeah. It smells a little bit like alcohol... 269 00:14:50,933 --> 00:14:52,935 SPARKLES: Yeah. MARIANA: Right? 270 00:14:52,935 --> 00:14:55,020 MARIANA: In a basement that smells of Chinese food, 271 00:14:55,020 --> 00:14:58,232 I meet Sparkles, who claims to be one of 272 00:14:58,232 --> 00:15:01,861 the West Coast's biggest suppliers of LSD. 273 00:15:01,861 --> 00:15:03,487 SPARKLES: I just like spreading the love, you know? 274 00:15:03,487 --> 00:15:05,156 Everybody's gotta do this, this is crazy. 275 00:15:05,156 --> 00:15:06,907 MARIANA: How do people find you? 276 00:15:06,907 --> 00:15:08,576 SPARKLES: Just through friends, you know? 277 00:15:08,576 --> 00:15:10,327 MARIANA: And then, so if you trust this person, 278 00:15:10,327 --> 00:15:12,371 then how do you send it off? 279 00:15:12,371 --> 00:15:13,873 SPARKLES: It's pretty easy to disguise. 280 00:15:13,873 --> 00:15:15,499 You can just put it in a card, you can put it in a book. 281 00:15:15,499 --> 00:15:17,251 It's a piece of paper, literally. 282 00:15:17,251 --> 00:15:19,086 This is probably as good as it gets. 283 00:15:19,086 --> 00:15:20,629 It's extremely pure. 284 00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:22,089 MARIANA: This stuff here? SPARKLES: Yeah. 285 00:15:22,089 --> 00:15:24,133 MARIANA: And where did you get this from? 286 00:15:24,133 --> 00:15:26,594 SPARKLES: Um, I get it from, it's just, you know, 287 00:15:26,594 --> 00:15:30,181 it's an old friend who is pretty involved in the industry. 288 00:15:30,598 --> 00:15:33,225 MARIANA: Do you think that person would talk to us? 289 00:15:33,225 --> 00:15:35,936 SPARKLES: I don't think they would. 290 00:15:35,936 --> 00:15:39,315 MARIANA: I ask if he knows the hippie chemist in the mountains. 291 00:15:39,315 --> 00:15:41,233 SPARKLES: I don't know him personally. 292 00:15:41,233 --> 00:15:45,446 I know that there's only really been one and from as far as I understand, 293 00:15:45,446 --> 00:15:48,824 he's been retired for a few years now. 294 00:15:48,824 --> 00:15:51,285 I think, you know, he's getting older, 295 00:15:51,285 --> 00:15:52,745 or he's got his life. 296 00:15:52,745 --> 00:15:54,079 He's made his money. 297 00:15:54,079 --> 00:15:55,998 He's happy to kind of just relax. 298 00:15:55,998 --> 00:15:58,292 MARIANA: And, so who, there's somebody else making it? 299 00:15:58,292 --> 00:16:00,002 SPARKLES: Well, currently we're just still kind of 300 00:16:00,002 --> 00:16:01,629 running through old stock. 301 00:16:01,629 --> 00:16:02,880 You don't need very much, right? 302 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,091 So, like, a single gram of LSD is 10,000 doses. 303 00:16:06,091 --> 00:16:08,761 MARIANA: Wow, so it's still this, this big batch of. 304 00:16:08,761 --> 00:16:11,180 SPARKLES: Yeah, we're still using the same batch. 305 00:16:11,180 --> 00:16:12,723 For now, anyways. 306 00:16:12,723 --> 00:16:15,643 MARIANA: That's right, the drug is so potent that 307 00:16:15,643 --> 00:16:18,229 the hippie chemist who seems to be supplying all of 308 00:16:18,229 --> 00:16:22,942 Vancouver's acid is supposedly a retired hippie chemist, 309 00:16:22,942 --> 00:16:26,820 who hasn't made a new batch in years. 310 00:16:26,820 --> 00:16:28,697 So why do you think it's so secretive? 311 00:16:28,697 --> 00:16:29,823 Apart from the fact that it's illegal. 312 00:16:29,823 --> 00:16:30,908 SPARKLES: Yeah. Yeah, it's illegal. 313 00:16:30,908 --> 00:16:31,825 But it's also just, kind of, like an 314 00:16:31,825 --> 00:16:33,369 old wizard's club, you know? 315 00:16:33,369 --> 00:16:35,663 It's kind of like the Acid Illuminati. 316 00:16:35,663 --> 00:16:37,164 That way they keep their secrets. 317 00:16:37,164 --> 00:16:39,291 They don't really want a lot of people knowing who they are. 318 00:16:39,291 --> 00:16:42,670 MARIANA: The reverence he has for these chemists surprises me. 319 00:16:42,670 --> 00:16:46,006 Typically drug supply chains lead back to ruthless 320 00:16:46,006 --> 00:16:49,051 cartel bosses or gang leaders. 321 00:16:49,051 --> 00:16:51,929 But Sparkles talks of these chemists more like 322 00:16:51,929 --> 00:16:55,516 misunderstood healers or shamans. 323 00:16:55,516 --> 00:16:57,685 Not everyone agrees. 324 00:16:58,227 --> 00:17:01,105 DENNIS: I think it all comes down to greed and profit. 325 00:17:01,105 --> 00:17:04,233 MARIANA: Dennis Wichern was a DEA agent for more than 30 years 326 00:17:04,233 --> 00:17:08,195 and feels strongly about the dangers of LSD. 327 00:17:08,195 --> 00:17:09,989 DENNIS: You're putting something in your body that 328 00:17:09,989 --> 00:17:11,573 you don't know how it's made. 329 00:17:11,573 --> 00:17:13,367 You don't know what the dose is. 330 00:17:13,367 --> 00:17:17,079 Allegedly a dose of LSD is contained in a microgram. 331 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:21,500 We're talking specs off the tip of a pen. 332 00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:25,004 So if it's too much, that's gonna alter the effect. 333 00:17:25,004 --> 00:17:27,965 And then you don't know the quality control either. 334 00:17:27,965 --> 00:17:30,467 And you know what? You're playing Russian roulette. 335 00:17:30,467 --> 00:17:35,389 MARIANA: In 2000, the DEA made the biggest bust in LSD history. 336 00:17:35,389 --> 00:17:37,933 REPORTER (over TV): DEA agents believe the LSD lab is 337 00:17:37,933 --> 00:17:40,561 one of the largest in the world 338 00:17:40,561 --> 00:17:43,230 MARIANA: The lab of chemist Leonard Pickard was hidden 339 00:17:43,230 --> 00:17:47,359 inside a decommissioned missile silo in Kansas. 340 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:52,531 On hand was enough LSD for nearly 400 million hits of acid. 341 00:17:54,033 --> 00:17:57,828 DENNIS: In effect, you took a, a, a world class LSD chemist off 342 00:17:57,828 --> 00:18:01,290 the table who could no longer manufacture LSD. 343 00:18:01,290 --> 00:18:03,959 MARIANA: But finding other chemists hasn't been easy. 344 00:18:03,959 --> 00:18:06,545 DENNIS: The LSD supply chain, historically, 345 00:18:06,545 --> 00:18:08,505 has been hard to crack because it's been 346 00:18:08,505 --> 00:18:13,927 a small group of people with the scientific expertise to make it. 347 00:18:13,927 --> 00:18:19,224 The LSD cooks and the users have kind of like a cult following. 348 00:18:20,476 --> 00:18:23,103 MARIANA: It's that cult-like following that still 349 00:18:23,103 --> 00:18:26,607 has me itching to find a chemist myself. 350 00:18:30,444 --> 00:18:34,031 So yeah, so this is where she said we should meet her. 351 00:18:35,741 --> 00:18:37,993 Okay, yeah. This is her. 352 00:18:38,285 --> 00:18:39,286 Hi! 353 00:18:39,286 --> 00:18:40,412 MICHELLE: Hi. How's it going? 354 00:18:40,412 --> 00:18:41,747 MARIANA: How are you, Michelle? Good. 355 00:18:41,747 --> 00:18:42,873 MICHELLE: I'm good. MARIANA: Thanks for meeting me. 356 00:18:42,873 --> 00:18:44,416 Should we go for a little ride, then? 357 00:18:44,416 --> 00:18:46,418 MICHELLE: Yeah, absolutely. 358 00:18:46,794 --> 00:18:49,171 MARIANA: Back in Los Angeles, I turn to a journalist with 359 00:18:49,171 --> 00:18:52,007 deep connections in the psychedelics world, 360 00:18:52,007 --> 00:18:53,425 Michelle Lhoog. 361 00:18:53,425 --> 00:18:54,677 MICHELLE: Have you ever done psychedelics? 362 00:18:54,677 --> 00:18:56,428 MARIANA: I am terrified of drugs, so. 363 00:18:56,428 --> 00:18:57,888 MICHELLE: Oh, interesting. 364 00:18:57,888 --> 00:19:01,141 MARIANA: That's, I'm really afraid of losing control. 365 00:19:03,185 --> 00:19:05,354 MICHELLE: Well, it's interesting that you say you're, like, 366 00:19:05,354 --> 00:19:09,149 a little afraid of drugs, because I think psychedelics 367 00:19:09,149 --> 00:19:11,985 kind of change a lot of the paradigm of what 368 00:19:11,985 --> 00:19:13,779 people consider to be drugs. 369 00:19:13,779 --> 00:19:15,322 MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 370 00:19:15,322 --> 00:19:16,990 MICHELLE: Especially now, that these substances are recognized 371 00:19:16,990 --> 00:19:19,326 as therapeutic, and there's, like, real research coming out. 372 00:19:19,326 --> 00:19:21,161 MARIANA: Right. 373 00:19:23,497 --> 00:19:27,334 MICHELLE: Honestly, trying to find an LSD chemist is one of 374 00:19:27,334 --> 00:19:30,045 the most difficult things that you can try and do. 375 00:19:30,045 --> 00:19:31,422 MARIANA: And why is that? 376 00:19:31,422 --> 00:19:33,215 MICHELLE: Because I think there are only, like, 377 00:19:33,215 --> 00:19:36,468 about ten people who make LSD. 378 00:19:36,468 --> 00:19:39,596 So, you know, it's a very, you have to be, like, 379 00:19:39,596 --> 00:19:42,141 a really good organic chemist to be able to do this. 380 00:19:42,141 --> 00:19:43,392 MARIANA: So it's a mystery for you, even for you? 381 00:19:43,392 --> 00:19:44,643 And you've been doing this for years. 382 00:19:44,643 --> 00:19:45,978 MICHELLE: Nobody knows. 383 00:19:45,978 --> 00:19:48,772 I talk to dozens of dealers and underground sources. 384 00:19:48,772 --> 00:19:50,315 Nobody knows. 385 00:19:50,315 --> 00:19:54,194 It literally is, I think, one of the greatest mysteries 386 00:19:54,194 --> 00:19:56,905 in the underground drug world. 387 00:20:04,413 --> 00:20:08,500 MARIANA: But I know these chemists are out there and 388 00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:11,420 I'm going to do my best to find one. 389 00:20:16,759 --> 00:20:19,052 ♪ ♪ 390 00:20:19,052 --> 00:20:21,221 MAN: Weeds are our common enemy. 391 00:20:21,221 --> 00:20:23,557 Here at the Dow Chemical Company, 392 00:20:23,557 --> 00:20:26,518 revolutionary chemical killers are being produced to 393 00:20:26,518 --> 00:20:29,021 help rid us of these costly pests. 394 00:20:29,021 --> 00:20:32,775 MARIANA: In 1966, a Dow chemist best known for creating 395 00:20:32,775 --> 00:20:35,402 the first biodegradable pesticide, 396 00:20:35,402 --> 00:20:38,030 left the corporate world to focus on his 397 00:20:38,030 --> 00:20:41,533 private obsession; psychedelics. 398 00:20:43,494 --> 00:20:46,413 His name was Alexander Shulgin. 399 00:20:46,413 --> 00:20:48,665 Working quietly in his backyard lab, 400 00:20:48,665 --> 00:20:53,378 east of San Francisco, Shulgin began synthesizing new drugs. 401 00:20:54,463 --> 00:20:56,965 He tested them on himself first. 402 00:20:56,965 --> 00:21:01,178 If promising, he gave doses to his wife and a group of friends. 403 00:21:01,178 --> 00:21:03,889 ALEXANDER: What I'm searching for are materials that could 404 00:21:03,889 --> 00:21:07,100 open up ways of understanding how the mind works. 405 00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:11,480 MARIANA: Over the years he discovered more than 200 new psychedelics. 406 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,858 Many of which he thought had great potential for 407 00:21:14,858 --> 00:21:19,488 the treatment of depression, phobias, and PTSD. 408 00:21:20,948 --> 00:21:23,784 But by the late 1980s, there was a renewed crackdown 409 00:21:23,784 --> 00:21:25,702 on illegal drugs. 410 00:21:25,702 --> 00:21:27,538 REAGAN: I will announce tomorrow a series of 411 00:21:27,538 --> 00:21:30,666 new proposals for a drug free America. 412 00:21:30,666 --> 00:21:32,668 MARIANA: Shulgin, like other chemists, 413 00:21:32,668 --> 00:21:34,503 began to fear that the Feds might be 414 00:21:34,503 --> 00:21:36,755 spying on him and his research. 415 00:21:36,755 --> 00:21:39,591 So he decided to share his secrets, eventually, 416 00:21:39,591 --> 00:21:43,428 self-publishing two books of his compounds and findings. 417 00:21:43,428 --> 00:21:45,013 ALEXANDER: 25 milligrams, no effect. 418 00:21:45,013 --> 00:21:46,473 40, no effect. 419 00:21:46,473 --> 00:21:50,686 81 milligrams, smooth shift into a light intoxication. 420 00:21:52,271 --> 00:21:55,232 MARIANA: Two years later, the DEA raided his lab, 421 00:21:55,232 --> 00:21:59,987 calling his writings a cookbook for how to make illegal drugs. 422 00:21:59,987 --> 00:22:02,239 REAGAN: Just say no. 423 00:22:02,239 --> 00:22:04,741 (cheering) 424 00:22:11,206 --> 00:22:18,005 (singing in native language). 425 00:22:19,172 --> 00:22:21,758 MARIANA: Definitely a very isolated place. 426 00:22:21,758 --> 00:22:24,845 We're in the middle of this sort of valley. 427 00:22:24,845 --> 00:22:26,722 Got this mountain with boulders. 428 00:22:26,722 --> 00:22:29,474 There's a lot of trailers up on the mountain 429 00:22:29,474 --> 00:22:30,934 and on the side of the road. 430 00:22:30,934 --> 00:22:32,686 (phone line ringing) 431 00:22:32,686 --> 00:22:34,938 Hey. How are you? 432 00:22:34,938 --> 00:22:36,607 I'm not sure we're in the right place. 433 00:22:36,607 --> 00:22:39,901 We're coming down this sort of mountain. 434 00:22:39,901 --> 00:22:41,194 PRODUCER (over phone): I'm going to send you a pin to 435 00:22:41,194 --> 00:22:42,905 the location that he sent me. 436 00:22:42,905 --> 00:22:45,490 We, we've been talking to proxies. 437 00:22:45,490 --> 00:22:46,742 MARIANA: Is that a security? 438 00:22:46,742 --> 00:22:48,410 Is he just not comfortable talking to you? 439 00:22:48,410 --> 00:22:50,203 PRODUCER (over phone): I think it's a security measure, yeah. 440 00:22:50,203 --> 00:22:52,205 MARIANA: Yeah. 441 00:22:52,205 --> 00:22:53,832 PRODUCER (over phone): So I'll send you a pin and the pin is to a gate. 442 00:22:53,832 --> 00:22:56,543 You get out at the gate and then you take your first left 443 00:22:56,543 --> 00:23:00,088 onto a dirt pass, and he'll be there waiting for you. 444 00:23:00,088 --> 00:23:02,382 MARIANA: Okay, great, thanks. Bye. 445 00:23:02,382 --> 00:23:05,052 I've hit brick wall after brick wall in my search 446 00:23:05,052 --> 00:23:07,429 for an LSD chemist. 447 00:23:07,429 --> 00:23:10,390 But I think I may have found another way in. 448 00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:14,144 I see another abandoned trailer. 449 00:23:15,896 --> 00:23:18,774 Is it this way, you guys think? 450 00:23:18,774 --> 00:23:21,151 I mean, that's what the pin's telling me. 451 00:23:29,284 --> 00:23:31,912 In my research, I've learned that one of the key ingredients 452 00:23:31,912 --> 00:23:35,999 in LSD is a difficult to find precursor chemical called 453 00:23:35,999 --> 00:23:38,293 ergotamine tartrate. 454 00:23:38,293 --> 00:23:42,047 It's highly regulated and closely watched by the DEA. 455 00:23:42,047 --> 00:23:44,925 I'm told that one kilo on the black market can go 456 00:23:44,925 --> 00:23:47,803 for hundreds of thousands of dollars. 457 00:23:47,803 --> 00:23:50,806 But without it, there can be no LSD. 458 00:23:50,806 --> 00:23:54,059 MICHELLE (over phone): These chemists don't talk to anybody. 459 00:23:54,059 --> 00:23:57,938 Everybody else in the pipeline has no idea who this chemist is 460 00:23:57,938 --> 00:23:59,690 where they're getting their source. 461 00:23:59,690 --> 00:24:01,733 Almost like a cult. 462 00:24:02,192 --> 00:24:04,528 MARIANA: In the past, much of the underground supply 463 00:24:04,528 --> 00:24:06,738 came from Europe or Asia. 464 00:24:06,738 --> 00:24:08,991 But Michelle told me that she's learned of a chemist 465 00:24:08,991 --> 00:24:13,870 that's making it right here in the United States. 466 00:24:15,789 --> 00:24:19,876 I'm eager to hear what an insider might know. 467 00:24:19,876 --> 00:24:22,879 Plus, there's nothing I like better than heading into 468 00:24:22,879 --> 00:24:27,300 the woods to meet a stranger in a mask. 469 00:24:34,015 --> 00:24:38,770 ♪ ♪ 470 00:24:38,770 --> 00:24:40,397 MARIANA: How are you? JOE: Joe. 471 00:24:40,397 --> 00:24:41,898 MARIANA: Hi, Joe. Nice to meet you. 472 00:24:41,898 --> 00:24:43,567 Thanks for meeting with us. 473 00:24:43,567 --> 00:24:45,736 I'll take a seat here. 474 00:24:47,404 --> 00:24:51,116 Nice place. Really isolated. 475 00:24:51,450 --> 00:24:53,160 Um... 476 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,579 How did it all start for you? 477 00:24:55,579 --> 00:24:56,872 (sighs) 478 00:24:56,872 --> 00:24:58,582 JOE: Pardon me. MARIANA: No worries. 479 00:24:58,582 --> 00:24:59,958 We can take as many breaks as you want. 480 00:24:59,958 --> 00:25:01,585 That's not a comfortable way... 481 00:25:01,585 --> 00:25:03,628 JOE: It's not a comfortable question, either. 482 00:25:03,628 --> 00:25:07,716 I went to a birthday party of some of my friends and 483 00:25:07,716 --> 00:25:10,552 met some other people that were there. 484 00:25:10,552 --> 00:25:12,637 And I didn't know that those were the people that 485 00:25:12,637 --> 00:25:14,890 were trying to hire me. 486 00:25:14,890 --> 00:25:17,225 And then later on they approached me for the job. 487 00:25:17,225 --> 00:25:19,478 They wanted to see who I was and how I acted. 488 00:25:19,478 --> 00:25:21,188 MARIANA: So tell me a little bit about what you did, 489 00:25:21,188 --> 00:25:23,190 I guess we can start there. 490 00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:27,652 JOE: Um, so there's a lot of things that go into making LSD 491 00:25:27,652 --> 00:25:32,574 and one of the things that I do is synthesize the precursors. 492 00:25:32,574 --> 00:25:34,284 MARIANA: Ergotamine? JOE: Right. 493 00:25:34,284 --> 00:25:37,079 Something that hasn't been done in the States recently. 494 00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:38,497 Instead of buying it off the dark web, 495 00:25:38,497 --> 00:25:40,707 from Ukraine, or something like that. 496 00:25:40,707 --> 00:25:42,250 MARIANA: Right. 497 00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:44,419 What we heard is that there's not a lot of people actually 498 00:25:44,419 --> 00:25:46,171 making it outside of pharmaceutical companies 499 00:25:46,171 --> 00:25:47,464 because it is so difficult. 500 00:25:47,464 --> 00:25:48,757 JOE: That's correct. 501 00:25:48,757 --> 00:25:50,342 MARIANA: And how are you capable of doing that? 502 00:25:50,342 --> 00:25:52,928 JOE: I mean, whatever someone makes in a pharmaceutical lab, 503 00:25:52,928 --> 00:25:55,347 with the right equipment, I can make also. 504 00:25:55,347 --> 00:25:59,101 MARIANA: I've found my way to a chemist who makes ergotamine tartrate, 505 00:25:59,101 --> 00:26:02,270 the hardest to source ingredient in LSD. 506 00:26:02,270 --> 00:26:03,271 You have a chemistry degree? 507 00:26:03,271 --> 00:26:04,731 JOE: Sure. 508 00:26:04,731 --> 00:26:06,149 You know, chemistry is not something you just wanna wake-up 509 00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:07,400 and smoke a joint and do... 510 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,069 MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 511 00:26:09,069 --> 00:26:11,404 JOE: And what I do maybe takes, like, two and a half weeks. 512 00:26:11,404 --> 00:26:13,615 MARIANA: Oh, for a batch of ergotamine? 513 00:26:13,615 --> 00:26:15,075 JOE: Right. 514 00:26:15,075 --> 00:26:16,660 To do it, you need to make a large amount at one time. 515 00:26:16,660 --> 00:26:19,663 MARIANA: We asked if we could go to your lab, several times. 516 00:26:19,663 --> 00:26:21,790 JOE: Mm-hmm. MARIANA: And what did you say? 517 00:26:21,790 --> 00:26:24,709 JOE: That's a definite no. MARIANA: And why is that? 518 00:26:24,709 --> 00:26:26,461 JOE: It would be dangerous for you, 519 00:26:26,461 --> 00:26:28,672 it would be dangerous for everyone I work for. 520 00:26:28,672 --> 00:26:30,340 Yeah, it's not, that's not smart. 521 00:26:30,340 --> 00:26:31,675 And that's not how we do things. 522 00:26:31,675 --> 00:26:33,176 We definitely wouldn't do that. 523 00:26:33,176 --> 00:26:34,845 MARIANA: I know you don't wanna talk about the lab much, 524 00:26:34,845 --> 00:26:36,137 but can you give me a sense? 525 00:26:36,137 --> 00:26:37,556 Does it look like a professional lab? 526 00:26:37,556 --> 00:26:39,224 That's like a lab-lab? 527 00:26:39,224 --> 00:26:41,768 JOE: It looks like a house. 528 00:26:45,105 --> 00:26:49,151 And there's like a, a kitchen that looks like it's a normal kitchen. 529 00:26:49,151 --> 00:26:50,819 And someone goes in there and washes dishes, 530 00:26:50,819 --> 00:26:52,571 that aren't really dishes. 531 00:26:52,571 --> 00:26:54,447 Someone goes and mows the yard. 532 00:26:54,447 --> 00:26:57,659 And, uh, we only come over there once, or twice a year. 533 00:26:57,659 --> 00:26:59,369 MARIANA: Really? JOE: Yeah. 534 00:26:59,369 --> 00:27:01,288 MARIANA: So they actually have people go there and 535 00:27:01,288 --> 00:27:03,290 do jobs that aren't necessary, 536 00:27:03,290 --> 00:27:04,749 only to pretend like it's a, you know. 537 00:27:04,749 --> 00:27:06,376 JOE: 100%, to make it look like someone's lives there. 538 00:27:06,376 --> 00:27:07,335 No one lives there. 539 00:27:07,335 --> 00:27:08,670 MARIANA: Oh. 540 00:27:08,670 --> 00:27:10,213 So what, once a week somebody goes and mows the lawn? 541 00:27:10,213 --> 00:27:11,548 JOE: Mows the lawn, yeah, waves to the neighbors. 542 00:27:11,548 --> 00:27:12,966 Stuff like that. 543 00:27:12,966 --> 00:27:14,426 MARIANA: So it doesn't, doesn't smell like anything? 544 00:27:14,426 --> 00:27:16,011 JOE: We make sure it doesn't smell. 545 00:27:16,011 --> 00:27:18,555 There's many filters. Air controlled environments. 546 00:27:18,555 --> 00:27:20,932 Yup. Vacuum sealed rooms. 547 00:27:20,932 --> 00:27:22,309 Very common. 548 00:27:22,309 --> 00:27:24,311 MARIANA: And do the neighbors ever look at you or? 549 00:27:24,311 --> 00:27:25,854 JOE: Yeah, you wave to them and you smile, 550 00:27:25,854 --> 00:27:28,106 like you're the friends going over to a party. 551 00:27:28,106 --> 00:27:29,232 You might bring a bottle of wine, 552 00:27:29,232 --> 00:27:30,692 or something that you never drink. 553 00:27:30,692 --> 00:27:32,277 MARIANA: Hmm. 554 00:27:32,277 --> 00:27:33,653 JOE: You wanna make sure everything look like it's normal. 555 00:27:33,653 --> 00:27:35,614 Sometimes I'll bring up flowers, or something. 556 00:27:35,614 --> 00:27:37,449 Or sometimes I'll act like I'm doing something that 557 00:27:37,449 --> 00:27:38,575 normal person would do. 558 00:27:38,575 --> 00:27:39,618 MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 559 00:27:39,618 --> 00:27:41,661 JOE: And I don't wear my lab coat. 560 00:27:41,661 --> 00:27:44,456 MARIANA: And so, twice a year, more or less, 561 00:27:44,456 --> 00:27:48,710 you and other people, an LSD chemist, go into this house. 562 00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:50,045 JOE: Sure. Other people, 563 00:27:50,045 --> 00:27:52,255 their job might take longer or less time than mine. 564 00:27:52,255 --> 00:27:53,548 MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 565 00:27:53,548 --> 00:27:55,550 JOE: Usually we work separate from each other. 566 00:27:55,550 --> 00:27:57,052 I've been there when two or three people are working at 567 00:27:57,052 --> 00:27:58,678 the same time and that's okay. 568 00:27:58,678 --> 00:28:00,430 MARIANA: Mm-hmm. JOE: But we don't hang out. 569 00:28:00,430 --> 00:28:03,433 We don't chill and talk about our, our work. 570 00:28:03,433 --> 00:28:05,060 We're not friends. 571 00:28:05,060 --> 00:28:06,519 MARIANA: So it's compartmentalized? 572 00:28:06,519 --> 00:28:08,730 JOE: Of course. I separate myself completely. 573 00:28:08,730 --> 00:28:11,483 MARIANA: But there is a person at the top, I'm assuming? 574 00:28:11,483 --> 00:28:15,570 JOE: You would assume, yeah. MARIANA: You would assume, okay. 575 00:28:15,904 --> 00:28:17,364 One of the things that we've heard is that people that are 576 00:28:17,364 --> 00:28:19,407 making LSD, that there are some chemists out there that 577 00:28:19,407 --> 00:28:20,867 are making millions of dollars. 578 00:28:20,867 --> 00:28:22,702 JOE: That's correct. 579 00:28:22,702 --> 00:28:23,954 MARIANA: Are you making millions of? 580 00:28:23,954 --> 00:28:26,122 JOE: I'm not gonna tell you that. 581 00:28:26,122 --> 00:28:28,166 MARIANA: Do you even know the chemist that makes the LSD? 582 00:28:28,166 --> 00:28:30,293 JOE: No. 583 00:28:30,293 --> 00:28:33,004 MARIANA: And if you did, do you think he'd talk to us, basically? 584 00:28:33,004 --> 00:28:36,257 JOE: Absolutely not. MARIANA: But you are. 585 00:28:36,257 --> 00:28:39,761 JOE: Sure. 586 00:28:39,761 --> 00:28:44,307 Those people, to say that they're camera shy would be an understatement. 587 00:28:44,307 --> 00:28:48,019 Like a hermit. Beyond a hermit. 588 00:28:49,270 --> 00:28:51,314 I really doubt it. 589 00:28:52,899 --> 00:28:55,986 MARIANA: The irony, of course, is that even as the makers of 590 00:28:55,986 --> 00:28:59,364 the drug remain a mystery, the users I've spoken with are 591 00:28:59,364 --> 00:29:02,909 only too eager to taut the drug's power in helping them 592 00:29:02,909 --> 00:29:05,870 work through trauma, like PTSD. 593 00:29:16,423 --> 00:29:19,175 MATT: Oh, damn. 594 00:29:20,176 --> 00:29:23,263 So, I enlisted in the military when I was 19 years old. 595 00:29:23,263 --> 00:29:28,601 Here I am in 2006 going to Iraq for the first time. 596 00:29:28,601 --> 00:29:29,769 MARIANA: Oh, that's you. 597 00:29:29,769 --> 00:29:31,646 MATT: Yeah, this is me right here. 598 00:29:31,646 --> 00:29:34,607 Yeah, I was, I was probably 20, 21 there, actually. 599 00:29:34,607 --> 00:29:38,903 Iraq was such a hot combat zone that I didn't really know what 600 00:29:38,903 --> 00:29:41,114 I was getting into. 601 00:29:41,114 --> 00:29:44,117 I volunteered for a job which involved scanning the roads for, 602 00:29:44,117 --> 00:29:45,910 for bombs, for roadside bombs. 603 00:29:45,910 --> 00:29:48,371 MARIANA: Mm-hmm. MATT: For IEDs. 604 00:29:50,623 --> 00:29:53,001 I drove this, this vehicle called The Husky. 605 00:29:53,001 --> 00:29:55,754 It was a, it was a metal detector and the vehicle behind 606 00:29:55,754 --> 00:29:57,797 it would drive up and it had a giant robotic arm, 607 00:29:57,797 --> 00:29:59,924 which would inspect the area right there. 608 00:29:59,924 --> 00:30:01,259 MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 609 00:30:01,259 --> 00:30:02,594 MATT: So we dealt with a lot of live explosives. 610 00:30:02,594 --> 00:30:03,803 MARIANA: IEDs, at this point, 611 00:30:03,803 --> 00:30:05,638 were the number one killer of soldiers... 612 00:30:05,638 --> 00:30:06,723 MATT: Yeah. 613 00:30:06,723 --> 00:30:08,433 MARIANA: American soldiers in Iraq. 614 00:30:08,433 --> 00:30:11,394 MATT: Oh yeah. We found, like, 1,600 roadside bombs in a year. 615 00:30:11,394 --> 00:30:12,854 MARIANA: Wow. MATT: Yes. 616 00:30:12,854 --> 00:30:13,938 MARIANA: And your job was to go out and look for IEDs? 617 00:30:13,938 --> 00:30:15,523 MATT: Oh yeah. 618 00:30:15,523 --> 00:30:18,026 And I would rather take the explosion than let my, my fellow, 619 00:30:18,026 --> 00:30:20,779 my fellow comrades take it. 620 00:30:21,571 --> 00:30:24,240 MARIANA: One day, Matt was tasked with clearing what 621 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,868 the Army calls, "Black routes." 622 00:30:26,868 --> 00:30:28,661 MATT: We were going in, like, uncharted lands, 623 00:30:28,661 --> 00:30:31,998 and we didn't know what was buried in there. 624 00:30:31,998 --> 00:30:34,334 We were the ones that would made black routes green. 625 00:30:34,334 --> 00:30:35,919 We would make them safe again for people. 626 00:30:35,919 --> 00:30:39,297 That day, I remember going through villages, 627 00:30:39,297 --> 00:30:41,174 and most of the time people would wave at you and 628 00:30:41,174 --> 00:30:43,927 be so happy that you were there. 629 00:30:45,470 --> 00:30:47,847 And we happened to go through a village and, you know, 630 00:30:47,847 --> 00:30:50,767 absolutely nobody was there. 631 00:30:50,767 --> 00:30:54,729 And immediately that fear is in your stomach. 632 00:30:58,942 --> 00:31:00,944 (explosion) 633 00:31:00,944 --> 00:31:03,696 MARIANA: Ooh. MATT: Yeah. 634 00:31:05,824 --> 00:31:09,661 I didn't happen to find the, the, the bomb in time. 635 00:31:09,661 --> 00:31:11,746 It went off and destroyed my vehicle. 636 00:31:11,746 --> 00:31:13,957 It cut my communications off from my team and 637 00:31:13,957 --> 00:31:16,251 I was just kind of sitting there. 638 00:31:16,835 --> 00:31:21,422 (radio static) 639 00:31:22,674 --> 00:31:23,925 MARIANA: The force of the blast knocked 640 00:31:23,925 --> 00:31:27,345 Matt unconscious for several minutes. 641 00:31:27,345 --> 00:31:31,057 MATT: I had to jump from the top of that vehicle to the concrete. 642 00:31:31,057 --> 00:31:32,308 MARIANA: And were you injured? 643 00:31:32,308 --> 00:31:33,810 Were you, what were you feeling at this moment? 644 00:31:33,810 --> 00:31:35,520 MATT: Nothing. Just pure adrenaline. 645 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:36,896 I'm getting shot at. 646 00:31:36,896 --> 00:31:38,273 MARIANA: And you were being shot at the same time? 647 00:31:38,273 --> 00:31:39,732 MATT: Oh yeah, yeah. After I got blown up, yeah. 648 00:31:39,732 --> 00:31:42,277 (rapid gunfire) 649 00:31:42,277 --> 00:31:44,946 I remember just running, and running, and running. 650 00:31:44,946 --> 00:31:46,698 At the time, being so young and stuff, I, I, I, 651 00:31:46,698 --> 00:31:49,492 I told them my back hurt and I told them I was, 652 00:31:49,492 --> 00:31:51,536 I was in pain, and, uh, 653 00:31:51,536 --> 00:31:53,663 I kinda didn't, I didn't take care of it. 654 00:31:53,663 --> 00:31:54,873 I didn't take it seriously. 655 00:31:54,873 --> 00:31:56,040 I just kind of let it ride and 656 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,252 I had actually injured myself pretty bad. 657 00:31:59,252 --> 00:32:02,338 MARIANA: Matt had a damaged spine and nerves, 658 00:32:02,338 --> 00:32:05,383 injuries that would be compounded by years of physical 659 00:32:05,383 --> 00:32:08,344 and mental stress in war-zones. 660 00:32:08,344 --> 00:32:11,472 He served two tours in Iraq and another in Afghanistan, 661 00:32:11,472 --> 00:32:14,142 before returning home to Minnesota. 662 00:32:14,142 --> 00:32:17,812 MATT: So the lowest point after, after I got out of the military, 663 00:32:17,812 --> 00:32:18,980 landed a really good job and, 664 00:32:18,980 --> 00:32:21,232 and things kind of, kind of fell through 665 00:32:21,232 --> 00:32:25,320 with that, and, uh, I didn't feel too good about myself. 666 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,573 I had all this time and I started to just dwindle away. 667 00:32:28,573 --> 00:32:32,368 And pretty soon I was in bed just not even, not even leaving. 668 00:32:32,368 --> 00:32:35,663 And just, just laying there. 669 00:32:35,663 --> 00:32:39,167 MARIANA: That's been particularly hard on his two sons. 670 00:32:39,167 --> 00:32:41,044 MATT: I don't have a very good relationship with them, 671 00:32:41,044 --> 00:32:42,795 because of the PTSD. 672 00:32:42,795 --> 00:32:44,464 It's just, it's so inconsistent. 673 00:32:44,464 --> 00:32:47,050 You're just not there. 674 00:32:47,050 --> 00:32:49,135 You're not, you're not there when you should be. 675 00:32:49,135 --> 00:32:51,095 And like, I don't, you can't help it, 676 00:32:51,095 --> 00:32:53,348 you wanna be, but you just sit there and you can't do it. 677 00:32:53,348 --> 00:32:55,225 You just physically can't with your mind. 678 00:32:55,225 --> 00:32:57,560 And you just, it's like you're protecting yourself, 679 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,271 but you have these children that needs you. 680 00:33:00,271 --> 00:33:03,107 MARIANA: Mm-hmm. MATT: It's really hard. 681 00:33:03,816 --> 00:33:07,070 You know, I had, I had thoughts of, like, it's, 682 00:33:07,070 --> 00:33:08,446 it's time to go. 683 00:33:08,446 --> 00:33:11,658 You can, nobody, you know, nobody cares about you. 684 00:33:11,658 --> 00:33:15,578 Just go ahead and kill yourself. 685 00:33:17,413 --> 00:33:21,542 MARIANA: Matt says he tried every FDA approved drug for PTSD 686 00:33:21,542 --> 00:33:23,920 but felt like nothing was working. 687 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,632 MATT: So in those days when you take the, the medicine from, from the VA, 688 00:33:27,632 --> 00:33:29,842 you just essentially become a sitting zombie. 689 00:33:29,842 --> 00:33:32,095 There's no life, you're just a vegetable. 690 00:33:32,095 --> 00:33:36,057 I told a buddy what was going on and he, he kind of talked to me, 691 00:33:36,057 --> 00:33:39,769 and he said, "I have this acid." 692 00:33:39,769 --> 00:33:41,771 And I was like, I was like, "An acid?" 693 00:33:41,771 --> 00:33:44,065 He's like, "Yeah, you've never taken acid before?" 694 00:33:44,065 --> 00:33:46,109 What I figured, I had nothing to lose. 695 00:33:46,109 --> 00:33:48,861 I had this little piece of paper and I kind of laughed and, 696 00:33:48,861 --> 00:33:49,862 you know, "What would it do?" 697 00:33:49,862 --> 00:33:52,031 And I, I put it in my mouth. 698 00:34:01,457 --> 00:34:05,962 ♪ ♪ 699 00:34:05,962 --> 00:34:07,422 THERAPIST: Okay, Matt. 700 00:34:07,422 --> 00:34:09,882 Well, it's that time for the medicine. 701 00:34:09,882 --> 00:34:12,302 And as you know, that we here at Akasa Journeys 702 00:34:12,302 --> 00:34:14,971 don't provide the medicine, we just sit for you. 703 00:34:14,971 --> 00:34:16,723 You checked it out, you know your sources. 704 00:34:16,723 --> 00:34:17,974 MATT: Yeah, my medicine's safe. 705 00:34:17,974 --> 00:34:19,809 THERAPIST: Very good. 706 00:34:23,604 --> 00:34:29,402 ♪ ♪ 707 00:34:29,402 --> 00:34:31,946 MARIANA: After years of struggling with PTSD and 708 00:34:31,946 --> 00:34:35,241 on the brink of suicide, Iraq veteran, Matt, 709 00:34:35,241 --> 00:34:37,869 says he turned the corner after a first time at 710 00:34:37,869 --> 00:34:41,289 home dose of LSD. 711 00:34:42,332 --> 00:34:45,168 MATT: I remember I got out of bed and I took a shower, 712 00:34:45,168 --> 00:34:47,879 and I put clothes on and I came out of the room, 713 00:34:47,879 --> 00:34:49,630 and interacted with everybody. 714 00:34:49,630 --> 00:34:51,632 And I played with my kids. 715 00:34:51,632 --> 00:34:53,885 We had the best night ever. 716 00:34:53,885 --> 00:34:56,846 The thing in my mind was gone, there was no fear. 717 00:34:56,846 --> 00:34:59,515 MARIANA: So, that one time alone changed you completely? 718 00:34:59,515 --> 00:35:01,351 MATT: Yeah, where I don't want to kill myself anymore. 719 00:35:01,351 --> 00:35:04,270 And everybody needs to see this and experience it. 720 00:35:04,270 --> 00:35:06,147 MARIANA: And that is what led Matt to seek out 721 00:35:06,147 --> 00:35:09,984 a new form of underground treatment for trauma. 722 00:35:09,984 --> 00:35:13,446 One that uses talk therapy and guided tripping sessions 723 00:35:13,446 --> 00:35:17,700 under the influence of illegally sourced LSD. 724 00:35:19,494 --> 00:35:21,371 MATT: I'm, I'm pretty nervous. 725 00:35:21,371 --> 00:35:25,375 I'm ready to almost grab this blanket and prepare myself for blastoff. 726 00:35:25,375 --> 00:35:27,168 THERAPIST: Okay. 727 00:35:27,168 --> 00:35:30,380 MARIANA: It takes nearly an hour before Matt even begins to feel 728 00:35:30,380 --> 00:35:32,632 the LSD in his system. 729 00:35:32,632 --> 00:35:35,301 He's nervous about where the trip might take him. 730 00:35:35,301 --> 00:35:37,428 THERAPIST: Yeah, you just wanna let that stuff flow. 731 00:35:37,428 --> 00:35:39,472 You know, when you had that accident and got blown up, 732 00:35:39,472 --> 00:35:41,349 and then you were left alone for a while. 733 00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:44,018 You know, that's a very tough experience. 734 00:35:44,018 --> 00:35:46,145 You know, it's an unfolding. 735 00:35:46,145 --> 00:35:49,899 You know, 'cause psychedelics open a door to a stairway. 736 00:35:49,899 --> 00:35:51,317 And it may be difficult, you know, 737 00:35:51,317 --> 00:35:54,070 and that's part of the process. 738 00:35:57,198 --> 00:35:58,366 MATT: I don't know. 739 00:35:58,366 --> 00:35:59,701 You're, like, you're playing heads or tails, 740 00:35:59,701 --> 00:36:01,577 if it's going to be a good time, or a bad time. 741 00:36:01,577 --> 00:36:04,497 If you're going to have to deal with something traumatic. 742 00:36:07,375 --> 00:36:08,709 MARK: If you look at something like PTSD, 743 00:36:08,709 --> 00:36:10,253 it's a tape loop... 744 00:36:10,253 --> 00:36:12,755 (rapid gunfire) 745 00:36:12,755 --> 00:36:15,341 That horrible experience replays itself again and 746 00:36:15,341 --> 00:36:17,677 again and again. 747 00:36:17,677 --> 00:36:19,178 And it's triggered. 748 00:36:19,178 --> 00:36:21,347 It's triggered uncontrollably. 749 00:36:21,347 --> 00:36:23,099 MARIANA: Earlier in my investigation, 750 00:36:23,099 --> 00:36:26,018 I talked to researchers in Vancouver who helped shed light 751 00:36:26,018 --> 00:36:30,148 on why psychedelics can be so effective in therapy. 752 00:36:30,148 --> 00:36:32,775 MARK: Traditional treatments can go there and find the tape loop, 753 00:36:32,775 --> 00:36:36,446 but they trigger the tape loop and there's a huge fear response. 754 00:36:36,446 --> 00:36:39,365 Psychedelics allow access to the unconscious mind. 755 00:36:39,365 --> 00:36:41,659 You can actually go there and find the tape loop without 756 00:36:41,659 --> 00:36:43,327 the big fear response. 757 00:36:43,327 --> 00:36:47,832 You can go into the tape loop and essentially release its energy. 758 00:36:48,916 --> 00:36:50,710 MARIANA: But the optimism around psychedelics 759 00:36:50,710 --> 00:36:53,629 doesn't exist in a vacuum. 760 00:36:53,629 --> 00:36:55,673 ERIC (over TV): The people who called police said the man, 761 00:36:55,673 --> 00:36:57,592 who was apparently high on LSD, 762 00:36:57,592 --> 00:37:00,386 was acting erratically and actually attacked another man. 763 00:37:00,386 --> 00:37:03,890 (yelling) 764 00:37:03,890 --> 00:37:07,351 MARIANA: Retired DEA agent Dennis Wichern is quick to 765 00:37:07,351 --> 00:37:11,063 point out there's no shortage of tragic incidents in either 766 00:37:11,063 --> 00:37:13,900 case files or the evening news. 767 00:37:13,900 --> 00:37:15,818 DENNIS: On the law enforcement side, 768 00:37:15,818 --> 00:37:19,906 you see the pain and misery by a family member when their, their child's 769 00:37:19,906 --> 00:37:22,408 taken it and had some effect, you know, 770 00:37:22,408 --> 00:37:25,578 like death or effect that's lifelong. 771 00:37:25,578 --> 00:37:29,248 One decision is forever life changing. 772 00:37:29,248 --> 00:37:33,836 MARIANA: In truth, there are no known overdose deaths from pure LSD. 773 00:37:33,836 --> 00:37:36,088 But that's not to say there's no risk, 774 00:37:36,088 --> 00:37:38,216 either from impairment under the influence, 775 00:37:38,216 --> 00:37:41,511 or from pre-existing conditions. 776 00:37:42,845 --> 00:37:45,306 So before knowing anything about LSD, 777 00:37:45,306 --> 00:37:46,807 what were your thoughts? 778 00:37:46,807 --> 00:37:50,394 MATT: I mean, drugs, in general, were, were horrible. 779 00:37:50,394 --> 00:37:52,480 That's what, that's what my community believes. 780 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:53,481 MARIANA: They don't approve of it? 781 00:37:53,481 --> 00:37:54,565 MATT: No, no they don't. 782 00:37:54,565 --> 00:37:55,900 We're labeled as drug addicts and, 783 00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:59,278 generally bad people because of the choices we make. 784 00:37:59,278 --> 00:38:01,197 MARIANA: Have you explained to them what it's done to you? 785 00:38:01,197 --> 00:38:03,741 MATT: They don't want to, people don't wanna listen to it. 786 00:38:03,741 --> 00:38:05,993 But this truly improved mental health. 787 00:38:05,993 --> 00:38:09,121 I take no medication now and I just finished 788 00:38:09,121 --> 00:38:11,207 my first semester of college, full-time. 789 00:38:11,207 --> 00:38:13,209 And I got 3.85 GPA, so. 790 00:38:13,209 --> 00:38:14,877 MARIANA: Nice, congrats. MATT: This is, yeah, thanks. 791 00:38:14,877 --> 00:38:16,921 This is, this is doing great things. 792 00:38:16,921 --> 00:38:19,298 MARIANA: What are you studying? MATT: I'm studying psychology. 793 00:38:19,298 --> 00:38:21,342 MARIANA: Matt still has bad days, 794 00:38:21,342 --> 00:38:25,221 but he credits LSD with helping to get his life back on track. 795 00:38:25,221 --> 00:38:27,682 And he's not alone. 796 00:38:31,269 --> 00:38:34,313 It's these stories of transformation that inspire me 797 00:38:34,313 --> 00:38:38,818 to keep looking for one of these ever elusive chemists. 798 00:38:40,861 --> 00:38:43,447 Through some mix of persistence and luck, 799 00:38:43,447 --> 00:38:48,703 it finally happens in a broken down school bus in Wyoming. 800 00:38:58,170 --> 00:39:04,427 ♪ ♪ 801 00:39:04,427 --> 00:39:06,762 MARIANA: So, how did you become a chemist? 802 00:39:06,762 --> 00:39:10,474 CASEY: You know, I took LSD. 803 00:39:10,474 --> 00:39:14,186 Changed my life. 804 00:39:14,186 --> 00:39:16,188 Set me free. 805 00:39:16,188 --> 00:39:18,149 Unleashed my mind. 806 00:39:18,149 --> 00:39:20,401 MARIANA: After months of searching for a chemist, 807 00:39:20,401 --> 00:39:23,738 I finally found one in Wyoming. 808 00:39:25,031 --> 00:39:27,742 Casey Hardison is known in certain circles 809 00:39:27,742 --> 00:39:29,327 as a drug wizard. 810 00:39:29,327 --> 00:39:33,706 We have spoken to so many people about their first acid trip and 811 00:39:33,706 --> 00:39:35,333 I think you're the first person that even 812 00:39:35,333 --> 00:39:37,793 gets emotional when you talk about this. 813 00:39:37,793 --> 00:39:41,589 Why? 814 00:39:41,589 --> 00:39:43,507 CASEY: I experienced freedom. 815 00:39:43,507 --> 00:39:46,719 I experienced complete, absolute peace. 816 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,805 Complete relief from all of my cares, concerns, 817 00:39:49,805 --> 00:39:51,349 and anxieties, and hang-ups, 818 00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:55,853 and I had just had an immensely profound spiritual awakening. 819 00:39:55,853 --> 00:39:58,397 MARIANA: So, you know how to make every drug out there, right? 820 00:39:58,397 --> 00:40:00,608 CASEY: No. But I could, could follow any protocol. 821 00:40:00,608 --> 00:40:02,026 MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 822 00:40:02,026 --> 00:40:03,361 CASEY: There's no protocol out there that I couldn't, 823 00:40:03,361 --> 00:40:05,655 you know, get the equipment, 824 00:40:05,655 --> 00:40:08,991 set up the reaction and complete the process. 825 00:40:08,991 --> 00:40:10,618 LSD needs a lot more precision. 826 00:40:10,618 --> 00:40:12,662 And you also need to know what you're doing. 827 00:40:12,662 --> 00:40:15,581 You need to know how to run a laboratory. 828 00:40:16,957 --> 00:40:19,043 MARIANA: You were in the UK working? You had a lab in England? 829 00:40:19,043 --> 00:40:21,087 CASEY: Yeah. Yeah. 830 00:40:21,087 --> 00:40:22,588 Matter of fact, I even said the words to a friend, 831 00:40:22,588 --> 00:40:24,757 "I think I'm flying under the radar." 832 00:40:24,757 --> 00:40:26,467 MARIANA: Mm-hmm. 833 00:40:26,467 --> 00:40:28,511 CASEY: I had no idea that they were out in a field way across 834 00:40:28,511 --> 00:40:32,348 from me in a horse box, listening, watching, observing. 835 00:40:32,348 --> 00:40:34,016 MARIANA: And then what happened that day? 836 00:40:34,016 --> 00:40:35,393 CASEY: I worked in a lab for a while. 837 00:40:35,393 --> 00:40:37,144 Then I went up to a bar called The Sanctuary, 838 00:40:37,144 --> 00:40:42,149 and they came in, one of the detectives leaned over and said, 839 00:40:42,149 --> 00:40:43,651 "I'm here to arrest you for being concerned in 840 00:40:43,651 --> 00:40:45,528 the manufacturing of controlled drugs." 841 00:40:45,528 --> 00:40:47,238 And I just said, "How do you wanna do it?" 842 00:40:47,238 --> 00:40:50,157 You know, I was high, actually, I was on LSD at the time, 843 00:40:50,157 --> 00:40:51,367 "As peacefully as possible." 844 00:40:51,367 --> 00:40:53,661 I'm like, "That works for me." 845 00:40:53,995 --> 00:40:56,622 MARIANA: At the height of your production as a chemist, 846 00:40:56,622 --> 00:40:58,332 how much were you making? 847 00:40:58,332 --> 00:41:00,084 CASEY: A little under 200 grams. 848 00:41:00,084 --> 00:41:01,168 Not a lot, you know. 849 00:41:01,168 --> 00:41:03,254 Enough. But not, not, not, not massive. 850 00:41:03,254 --> 00:41:05,881 Not like kilos, some other people are doing. 851 00:41:05,881 --> 00:41:07,174 MARIANA: And why not? 852 00:41:07,174 --> 00:41:09,009 CASEY: Limited ergotamine supplies. 853 00:41:09,009 --> 00:41:11,137 MARIANA: So were you doing it for the money, or the ideals? 854 00:41:11,137 --> 00:41:14,765 CASEY: Dude, I was doing it for the alchemical adventure. 855 00:41:14,765 --> 00:41:17,059 MARIANA: Was there a part of you that was doing it for the money? 856 00:41:17,059 --> 00:41:20,938 CASEY: You know, if I worked hard I could make 50,000 a month. 857 00:41:20,938 --> 00:41:23,524 Didn't have to work that hard. You know. 858 00:41:23,524 --> 00:41:25,776 MARIANA: That's a lot of money. 859 00:41:25,776 --> 00:41:27,987 CASEY: Yeah. MARIANA: Was your stuff good? 860 00:41:27,987 --> 00:41:29,613 CASEY: My stuff was delicious. 861 00:41:29,613 --> 00:41:31,449 You know, smelled like grape popsicles, 862 00:41:31,449 --> 00:41:33,743 strangely enough. 863 00:41:33,743 --> 00:41:35,411 They say it's odorless, tasteless, colorless. 864 00:41:35,411 --> 00:41:36,996 Well it is, and it's a crystal. 865 00:41:36,996 --> 00:41:40,624 But as an oil it smells like grape popsicles. 866 00:41:40,624 --> 00:41:42,585 MARIANA: So we've been trying to find an LSD chemist to talk 867 00:41:42,585 --> 00:41:45,087 to us for months and no one is willing to talk to us. 868 00:41:45,087 --> 00:41:46,964 Why do you think that is? 869 00:41:46,964 --> 00:41:50,468 CASEY: Life sentences. Federal mandatory minimums. 870 00:41:50,468 --> 00:41:52,511 MARIANA: And why are you talking to us? 871 00:41:52,511 --> 00:41:53,804 CASEY: 'Cause I'm not practicing. 872 00:41:53,804 --> 00:41:56,140 I'm not, uh, I'm not concerned. 873 00:41:56,140 --> 00:41:58,642 I've already served my time, done my sentence and I'm, 874 00:41:58,642 --> 00:42:03,314 you know, shamelessly, proud of my accomplishments. 875 00:42:03,314 --> 00:42:07,443 The war on drugs is a war on people and we can't possibly 876 00:42:07,443 --> 00:42:08,903 win a war on people. 877 00:42:08,903 --> 00:42:11,614 It cost us all that gangster criminal trafficking. 878 00:42:11,614 --> 00:42:13,657 Clogs the prison system. 879 00:42:13,657 --> 00:42:15,284 It's not working. 880 00:42:15,284 --> 00:42:19,538 The idea that you are going to extinguish people's desire 881 00:42:19,538 --> 00:42:22,458 to alter their mental functioning is, um, 882 00:42:22,458 --> 00:42:24,668 that's the craziest idea ever. 883 00:42:24,668 --> 00:42:27,713 MARIANA: I mean, do you think you could put us in touch with a chemist? 884 00:42:27,713 --> 00:42:31,842 CASEY: When considering such a question, 885 00:42:31,842 --> 00:42:37,932 it brings to mind what I lost in being arrested. 886 00:42:37,932 --> 00:42:40,476 I knew my purpose. 887 00:42:40,476 --> 00:42:43,604 I knew who I was, what I was up to, 888 00:42:43,604 --> 00:42:47,483 and the law took that away. 889 00:42:47,483 --> 00:42:50,194 And I'm not sure I wanna risk that for them. 890 00:42:50,194 --> 00:42:51,654 That was my greatest joy. 891 00:42:51,654 --> 00:42:55,533 And now I can't do the thing I want to do most. 892 00:42:57,284 --> 00:42:59,787 I truly believe in the transformation that 893 00:42:59,787 --> 00:43:04,375 psychedelics can, can catalyze. 894 00:43:04,375 --> 00:43:08,838 And these chemists know that they're making a molecule that 895 00:43:08,838 --> 00:43:11,924 causes that transformation. 896 00:43:11,924 --> 00:43:14,885 They believe they're making a difference and 897 00:43:14,885 --> 00:43:18,222 I don't wanna take that from them. 898 00:43:18,222 --> 00:43:21,225 I don't want them to lose that. 899 00:43:21,225 --> 00:43:23,602 I lost it. 900 00:43:23,602 --> 00:43:25,688 I (bleep) want it back. 901 00:43:25,688 --> 00:43:29,900 I want the freedom to alter my mental function as I see fit and 902 00:43:29,900 --> 00:43:33,612 to make molecules to help others to do the same. 903 00:43:33,612 --> 00:43:36,282 That's all I want. 904 00:43:38,117 --> 00:43:42,621 MARIANA: I've met plenty of drug dealers who've done hard time in prison. 905 00:43:42,621 --> 00:43:45,958 But I've never seen one weep as he describes being robbed of 906 00:43:45,958 --> 00:43:49,420 what he calls his purpose. 907 00:43:50,713 --> 00:43:52,798 Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. 908 00:43:52,798 --> 00:43:55,426 After all, indigenous communities have used 909 00:43:55,426 --> 00:43:58,846 psychedelics in spiritual and therapeutic ceremonies 910 00:43:58,846 --> 00:44:02,141 for thousands of years. 911 00:44:03,392 --> 00:44:06,937 Some say it's time for the rest of us to catch up. 912 00:44:06,937 --> 00:44:08,230 Captioned by Cotter Media Group.