1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,162 WWW.MY-SUBS.CO 1 00:00:10,343 --> 00:00:11,636 {n8}The truth is the truth. 2 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,431 {n8}You can't change it. You have to deal with it. 3 00:00:15,098 --> 00:00:18,268 It takes a lot of courage to be able to talk about this without... 4 00:00:19,978 --> 00:00:23,064 without feeling strange, but it's the truth. 5 00:00:48,965 --> 00:00:51,051 I'd been working at the New York Post 6 00:00:51,134 --> 00:00:52,927 delivering newspaper out in Queens 7 00:00:53,011 --> 00:00:54,345 for over 20 years. 8 00:00:55,388 --> 00:00:57,599 {n8}And on the way back, I could take the bridge. 9 00:00:57,682 --> 00:01:01,019 {n8}♪ There's no turning back ♪ 10 00:01:02,062 --> 00:01:05,023 {n8}♪ Even while we sleep ♪ 11 00:01:06,316 --> 00:01:08,068 ♪ We will find you ♪ 12 00:01:08,151 --> 00:01:09,569 ♪ Acting... ♪ 13 00:01:13,239 --> 00:01:15,325 I was confronted with a blackout, 14 00:01:15,950 --> 00:01:17,202 the truck dying. 15 00:01:19,913 --> 00:01:21,581 And then all of a sudden, 16 00:01:22,332 --> 00:01:24,584 I saw a bunch of lights in front of me. 17 00:01:27,003 --> 00:01:29,005 I didn't know what I was looking at. 18 00:01:30,965 --> 00:01:32,675 And then I saw what it was. 19 00:01:34,344 --> 00:01:35,804 It scared the heck outta me. 20 00:01:37,722 --> 00:01:41,184 And I saw a woman coming out a window... 21 00:01:45,647 --> 00:01:46,815 ...and just disappear. 22 00:01:47,357 --> 00:01:52,320 I realized exactly what I saw, and I could not just let it go. 23 00:01:55,281 --> 00:01:57,742 Who was the woman in the white gown? 24 00:01:59,744 --> 00:02:01,454 I don't know what the big secret is. 25 00:02:01,538 --> 00:02:04,082 I don't know why they're keeping it from the public. 26 00:02:04,582 --> 00:02:06,084 But we're not alone. 27 00:02:07,043 --> 00:02:08,253 We're not alone. 28 00:02:31,109 --> 00:02:35,029 I think a good documentary has to be, first and foremost, honest... 29 00:02:37,490 --> 00:02:42,162 with intimate access to the people that you're interested in. 30 00:02:48,293 --> 00:02:53,381 I moved to Manhattan to make a film about the alien-abduction phenomenon. 31 00:02:55,091 --> 00:02:58,469 And I was making it with someone who was damn good on camera. 32 00:03:00,305 --> 00:03:03,683 This was the first time I'd ever seen those things. 33 00:03:03,766 --> 00:03:07,395 This thing was standing at the foot of my bed. 34 00:03:08,146 --> 00:03:11,149 The Linda case was fascinating to me 35 00:03:11,232 --> 00:03:13,943 because there were numerous witnesses 36 00:03:14,027 --> 00:03:18,656 who had seen her be abducted out of her window and up into the craft. 37 00:03:18,740 --> 00:03:20,450 - Right where the building is. - Uh-huh. 38 00:03:20,533 --> 00:03:23,995 Right there. It was so lit up, you could see them perfectly. 39 00:03:24,579 --> 00:03:26,122 That's when I got scared. 40 00:03:26,206 --> 00:03:29,125 When I looked out the window, the courtyard was lit. 41 00:03:29,209 --> 00:03:30,960 Like, it's the middle of the night. 42 00:03:32,921 --> 00:03:35,632 Twenty-three witnesses. 43 00:03:37,759 --> 00:03:41,221 Jesus Christ. This is real. 44 00:03:42,388 --> 00:03:45,975 No other abduction case had this many witnesses. 45 00:03:46,809 --> 00:03:48,228 They didn't know each other, 46 00:03:49,270 --> 00:03:51,731 but they were all reporting the same thing. 47 00:03:56,152 --> 00:03:57,362 Honey, don't point. 48 00:03:57,445 --> 00:03:58,738 - Just look at it. - Okay. 49 00:03:58,821 --> 00:04:00,865 Put the Coke down and just look. 50 00:04:03,201 --> 00:04:05,787 {n8}This Linda case consumed my husband. 51 00:04:06,871 --> 00:04:12,001 I'm looking exactly at the building Linda Cortile floated out. 52 00:04:12,502 --> 00:04:15,588 He believed this was an amazing opportunity 53 00:04:15,672 --> 00:04:18,925 to prove aliens were a very, very real phenomenon. 54 00:04:19,008 --> 00:04:20,593 But it's absolutely shocking. 55 00:04:20,677 --> 00:04:24,222 In the world of investigating alien abduction, 56 00:04:24,305 --> 00:04:26,307 {n8}he was a well-known, respected person, 57 00:04:26,891 --> 00:04:29,978 but he was not being taken seriously by the general public. 58 00:04:32,021 --> 00:04:35,024 You've heard this audience laughing throughout the show. It's... The... 59 00:04:35,108 --> 00:04:36,567 Well, you presented this program 60 00:04:36,651 --> 00:04:39,028 with the funniest aspects of it to begin with, 61 00:04:39,112 --> 00:04:40,552 and naturally that's gonna be funny. 62 00:04:40,613 --> 00:04:43,199 I would see Budd was being mocked. 63 00:04:43,741 --> 00:04:48,830 And that made me just furious, and furiously on his side. 64 00:04:48,913 --> 00:04:50,373 The reason I went to Budd 65 00:04:50,456 --> 00:04:53,793 is because Budd is looking into these experiences seriously, 66 00:04:53,876 --> 00:04:56,379 trying to find out what's going on. 67 00:04:56,462 --> 00:05:00,633 I always felt that he was doing something valuable and brave, 68 00:05:00,717 --> 00:05:02,260 and I loved him for that. 69 00:05:03,886 --> 00:05:05,763 Budd called the Linda case 70 00:05:05,847 --> 00:05:09,767 the most important UFO-abduction case in history. 71 00:05:10,435 --> 00:05:15,023 We both had that buzz that tells you this might be the one. 72 00:05:16,107 --> 00:05:20,778 I'm not gonna presume to know what it is, 73 00:05:21,821 --> 00:05:23,906 but there's something going on out there. 74 00:05:24,615 --> 00:05:27,869 I found Linda to be very believable. 75 00:05:28,995 --> 00:05:31,372 And we became good friends. 76 00:05:34,250 --> 00:05:37,587 I thought it was going to be a really exciting story. 77 00:05:38,588 --> 00:05:43,760 But I had no idea that it was about to become entirely insane. 78 00:05:47,221 --> 00:05:51,559 Um, I'm gonna try to start up and tilt down. 79 00:05:58,816 --> 00:06:02,570 {n8}Now, when did things start to change for you? 80 00:06:02,653 --> 00:06:05,656 Carol told me that she was a producer. 81 00:06:06,949 --> 00:06:11,579 And, uh, she took some, uh, film footage of me with her little camera. 82 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,707 Why don't we do that, Carol? Make it exciting. 83 00:06:14,791 --> 00:06:18,753 She had pretty, blue eyes and fine features. 84 00:06:19,337 --> 00:06:21,464 She was charismatic and friendly. 85 00:06:22,757 --> 00:06:23,591 I'm sorry. 86 00:06:23,674 --> 00:06:27,053 That's... No, no, no, that's fine. Just do whatever you want to do. 87 00:06:27,553 --> 00:06:28,846 Linda trusted me 88 00:06:28,930 --> 00:06:33,559 'cause we were both interested in exploring this mystery, 89 00:06:34,811 --> 00:06:37,939 which had become part of her everyday life. 90 00:06:38,606 --> 00:06:41,526 This place is the place to go to shop. 91 00:06:42,026 --> 00:06:44,737 - We got the best... - Especially if you're Italian. 92 00:06:44,821 --> 00:06:45,655 We got the best... 93 00:06:45,738 --> 00:06:49,158 I was raised in the old neighborhood in Little Italy. 94 00:06:52,078 --> 00:06:55,540 My father, he was a Golden Gloves boxer. 95 00:06:56,207 --> 00:06:58,042 They called him Kid Lightning. 96 00:06:59,669 --> 00:07:03,089 He taught me not to take any crap from anybody. 97 00:07:04,549 --> 00:07:07,009 My mom, she was a stay-at-home mother, 98 00:07:07,593 --> 00:07:08,636 like me. 99 00:07:09,804 --> 00:07:11,931 She told me you get married, 100 00:07:13,558 --> 00:07:14,851 you have children, 101 00:07:16,811 --> 00:07:18,646 go to church on Sundays... 102 00:07:21,149 --> 00:07:22,358 and then you die. 103 00:07:25,361 --> 00:07:30,408 But no one told me about these... the creatures and UFOs, 104 00:07:30,491 --> 00:07:33,744 and that... is part of life. 105 00:07:37,665 --> 00:07:40,209 Linda was in and out of our house quite often 106 00:07:40,293 --> 00:07:43,296 having a regression session with Budd. 107 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,215 As you fall asleep and rest. 108 00:07:47,300 --> 00:07:49,510 One, you're lying in bed. 109 00:07:49,594 --> 00:07:51,804 Two, right on the edge now. 110 00:07:51,888 --> 00:07:56,058 He believed an alien abduction went into your consciousness 111 00:07:56,142 --> 00:07:57,810 and it would be like a tape recorder. 112 00:07:57,894 --> 00:08:00,188 You could just replay it, and it would all be there. 113 00:08:01,481 --> 00:08:02,481 Three. 114 00:08:04,942 --> 00:08:06,527 Did you see behind the curtain? 115 00:08:09,739 --> 00:08:12,325 It's all right, Linda. It's all right. It's all right. 116 00:08:16,412 --> 00:08:17,830 I can't move. 117 00:08:20,249 --> 00:08:21,501 I can't breathe. 118 00:08:26,172 --> 00:08:30,760 That night, thanks to Budd, I understood the truth. 119 00:08:31,677 --> 00:08:32,887 They numb you. 120 00:08:33,429 --> 00:08:35,056 You can't even move. 121 00:08:35,765 --> 00:08:37,934 You can't... you can't fight back. 122 00:08:39,435 --> 00:08:40,895 They are intruders. 123 00:08:42,188 --> 00:08:43,481 I would like to think 124 00:08:43,981 --> 00:08:49,153 that, uh, what I saw during hypnosis was maybe a dream. 125 00:08:49,237 --> 00:08:54,283 Sure, I'd... I'd give almost anything to have it that way. 126 00:08:54,367 --> 00:08:55,367 But it isn't. 127 00:08:56,494 --> 00:09:03,084 Everything that I saw under hypnosis was verified by the witnesses. 128 00:09:03,167 --> 00:09:06,671 As the case started to go forward and unfold, uh, 129 00:09:07,171 --> 00:09:08,589 it got pretty bad. 130 00:09:08,673 --> 00:09:10,466 Pretty bad in my life. 131 00:09:12,385 --> 00:09:16,138 It was a living nightmare, definitely, and then, 132 00:09:17,932 --> 00:09:20,935 after a while, I started to get paranoid. 133 00:09:23,771 --> 00:09:26,566 And not just about aliens. 134 00:09:31,904 --> 00:09:33,990 Government documents indicate that UFO researchers 135 00:09:34,073 --> 00:09:37,493 have been routinely spied upon by intelligence agencies. 136 00:09:37,577 --> 00:09:40,746 We knew that there was interest in the abduction phenomena 137 00:09:40,830 --> 00:09:42,623 within the intelligence community. 138 00:09:42,707 --> 00:09:44,709 There's no doubt that the government is aware. 139 00:09:44,792 --> 00:09:47,753 The government has spent a huge amount of money investigating cases. 140 00:09:47,837 --> 00:09:51,257 Through the Freedom of Information Act, we have received many, many documents. 141 00:09:52,842 --> 00:09:55,386 The FBI, the CIA, the Army, they... Everything. 142 00:09:56,470 --> 00:10:00,182 This is law-enforcement culture, intelligence-community culture. 143 00:10:01,058 --> 00:10:02,310 This is dark stuff. 144 00:10:07,815 --> 00:10:11,777 I had a very strange feeling that somebody was following me around. 145 00:10:14,655 --> 00:10:16,907 I'd be home, and the phone would ring. 146 00:10:18,701 --> 00:10:21,078 It would be someone I didn't know. 147 00:10:21,162 --> 00:10:24,457 10:19 a.m. 148 00:10:24,540 --> 00:10:28,336 Budd, the whole thing is strange. I just picked up the phone. 149 00:10:28,419 --> 00:10:32,381 I was about to dial, and the voice said, "Can I help you?" 150 00:10:33,341 --> 00:10:34,842 I hope my phone isn't bugged. 151 00:10:36,802 --> 00:10:39,055 - You don't talk around this area here? - No. 152 00:10:39,138 --> 00:10:41,307 And that's the only phone in this room here? 153 00:10:41,849 --> 00:10:46,520 Budd had a friend with high-end detection equipment. 154 00:10:46,604 --> 00:10:49,148 Any telephones we'll make you take off of the hook. 155 00:10:49,231 --> 00:10:54,153 He wanted to see if anyone had planted bugs in her house. 156 00:10:55,446 --> 00:10:59,367 He believed the FBI were interested in Linda's case. 157 00:11:01,410 --> 00:11:03,371 This was another level of the game. 158 00:11:03,454 --> 00:11:05,748 And my first thoughts were, 159 00:11:06,916 --> 00:11:09,835 "Were these men planning to take Linda away?" 160 00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:11,253 "Wipe her memory?" 161 00:11:11,837 --> 00:11:15,466 Could they shut down Budd's case before he really got started? 162 00:11:16,384 --> 00:11:20,429 The phrase that went through my mind was, "Just because you're paranoid 163 00:11:22,014 --> 00:11:24,100 doesn't mean they're not out to get you." 164 00:11:37,238 --> 00:11:38,364 - Hello? - Linda? 165 00:11:38,864 --> 00:11:40,074 I can't believe this. 166 00:11:40,157 --> 00:11:41,492 So tell me what happened. 167 00:11:43,577 --> 00:11:46,122 They came over around a quarter after ten. 168 00:11:49,959 --> 00:11:51,168 What did they say? 169 00:11:53,045 --> 00:11:54,045 "Police." 170 00:11:54,630 --> 00:11:57,341 He says, "But, you know, we just wanna know, 171 00:11:57,842 --> 00:12:03,597 how did you manage to get out of the building the way you did?" 172 00:12:08,811 --> 00:12:11,063 What in the name of God is going on here? 173 00:12:11,897 --> 00:12:13,983 Did they try to get you to tell 'em anything? 174 00:12:14,066 --> 00:12:16,026 I told them I didn't wanna talk about it. 175 00:12:16,110 --> 00:12:17,194 Oh God, Linda. 176 00:12:17,987 --> 00:12:21,240 Where they came from, how they learned, 177 00:12:21,323 --> 00:12:24,201 what the connection was, we were completely in the dark about. 178 00:12:24,869 --> 00:12:26,829 But they left about maybe ten minutes ago. 179 00:12:26,912 --> 00:12:28,598 - So... - My hands are shaking. 180 00:12:28,622 --> 00:12:30,207 They tell you their names? 181 00:12:30,291 --> 00:12:34,378 He says, um, "My name is Richard, and this is my partner, Dan." 182 00:12:36,922 --> 00:12:40,968 The entrance of Dan and Richard into Linda's story, 183 00:12:41,051 --> 00:12:42,636 that was like a shot of adrenaline. 184 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,282 You know what I'm gonna do? I'm just gonna start shooting. 185 00:12:45,306 --> 00:12:48,809 Whether they were policemen or agents, nobody knew the truth. 186 00:12:48,893 --> 00:12:50,895 Let me just get some focus here. 187 00:12:50,978 --> 00:12:55,107 So I took my camera back to Linda, and I just asked her... 188 00:12:55,191 --> 00:12:57,443 What happened when they came over? 189 00:12:57,526 --> 00:13:01,989 They told me that I was responsible for something that they saw happen. 190 00:13:04,283 --> 00:13:07,536 When they were sitting in their cars under the FDR Drives, 191 00:13:07,620 --> 00:13:12,541 they saw me hanging outside my window 12 stories up in a beam of light. 192 00:13:12,625 --> 00:13:16,879 One seemed, uh, very nice. 193 00:13:16,962 --> 00:13:19,673 Uh, the other one seemed very nervous. 194 00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:23,135 A little on the angry side. 195 00:13:24,178 --> 00:13:28,808 I couldn't believe the look on Dan's face. 196 00:13:28,891 --> 00:13:30,976 He looked terr... It didn't look right. 197 00:13:31,060 --> 00:13:33,813 But what frightened me more was when Dan stood up, 198 00:13:33,896 --> 00:13:36,273 got up from the couch, and stood up in front of me. 199 00:13:36,357 --> 00:13:38,067 I thought he was gonna beat me up. 200 00:13:39,109 --> 00:13:40,109 I mean it. 201 00:13:40,444 --> 00:13:43,405 And that's when Richard got in between us. 202 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,867 What was the... the basis for his emotion? 203 00:13:47,660 --> 00:13:48,994 I was answering him back. 204 00:13:50,454 --> 00:13:52,748 This, uh, authoritative, uh, figure. 205 00:13:53,958 --> 00:13:55,334 He didn't like it. 206 00:13:56,585 --> 00:14:00,714 I don't want to get these big fellows angry at me. 207 00:14:01,423 --> 00:14:03,843 So I told 'em, "You have to leave." 208 00:14:04,510 --> 00:14:05,553 I shut the door, 209 00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:07,680 peeked through, 210 00:14:09,348 --> 00:14:12,101 and I could see Richard and Dan out in the hallway. 211 00:14:15,104 --> 00:14:16,397 Come on. I'll show you. 212 00:14:18,023 --> 00:14:22,736 Dan grabbed on to Richard's lapels and started to bang him. 213 00:14:22,820 --> 00:14:24,446 Now, these are two big guys. 214 00:14:25,447 --> 00:14:29,910 He's banging him on the wall with his lapels and saying, 215 00:14:29,994 --> 00:14:34,331 "Jesus Christ, Rich. Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ." 216 00:14:35,416 --> 00:14:38,419 These two men seemed to be very upset. 217 00:14:39,044 --> 00:14:40,671 Seemed suspicious of her. 218 00:14:41,255 --> 00:14:43,175 Did you feel endangered after that visit? 219 00:14:43,215 --> 00:14:44,425 Yes. Yes. 220 00:14:44,925 --> 00:14:49,513 So for me, there was a big question about who they represented. 221 00:14:49,597 --> 00:14:51,223 Who do you think he was? 222 00:14:51,932 --> 00:14:56,270 Well, I believe he was an, uh, an intelligence, uh, agent or something. 223 00:14:58,147 --> 00:15:00,524 An intelligence, uh, agent or something. 224 00:15:01,108 --> 00:15:02,693 But that's just what I thought. 225 00:15:03,193 --> 00:15:07,531 I didn't know what to believe. I didn't know what was going on. 226 00:15:13,203 --> 00:15:15,831 I don't know that they're detectives, but they may be. 227 00:15:15,915 --> 00:15:17,333 Who knows what's going on? 228 00:15:17,833 --> 00:15:19,460 But we're gonna try to find out. 229 00:15:22,463 --> 00:15:24,214 The primary focus had shifted 230 00:15:24,298 --> 00:15:26,759 to learning who these two individuals were. 231 00:15:27,801 --> 00:15:32,056 This was incredibly compelling for Budd 'cause he was a really good detective. 232 00:15:33,015 --> 00:15:35,351 And Budd had developed, over the years, 233 00:15:35,434 --> 00:15:37,770 a number of contacts within law enforcement. 234 00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:42,232 Look, there's... there's a matter of... of speed here, urgency. 235 00:15:42,316 --> 00:15:44,401 Okay, but it's also, like I said, delicate 236 00:15:44,485 --> 00:15:46,487 because if we start knocking on the wrong doors, 237 00:15:46,570 --> 00:15:47,613 we got big problems. 238 00:15:48,614 --> 00:15:51,408 We went to every station in New York. 239 00:15:56,413 --> 00:15:58,832 I've got two goals. I... I wanna meet these guys, 240 00:15:58,916 --> 00:16:02,211 and I wanna stop this screwing around that they're doing with Linda. 241 00:16:02,711 --> 00:16:04,755 They hide their identities really well 242 00:16:04,838 --> 00:16:06,799 in this situation for their protection. 243 00:16:06,882 --> 00:16:09,969 And especially, you know the subject of this is, uh, you know, 244 00:16:10,052 --> 00:16:12,513 something the government don't like to talk about. 245 00:16:12,596 --> 00:16:14,264 He would leave notes for them, 246 00:16:14,348 --> 00:16:19,311 telling them how important this work was for the future of humanity, 247 00:16:19,395 --> 00:16:22,022 and they really needed to come forward. 248 00:16:22,606 --> 00:16:25,526 Linda, did anybody else see them come into your place? 249 00:16:25,609 --> 00:16:28,737 - No. - Any way to establish they were there? 250 00:16:28,821 --> 00:16:31,281 See... See, a skeptic would say you made it all up. 251 00:16:31,365 --> 00:16:32,825 I don't really give a damn. 252 00:16:32,908 --> 00:16:34,660 - Okay. Bye-bye. - Bye-bye. 253 00:16:40,416 --> 00:16:42,751 One day, I came into the office 254 00:16:44,378 --> 00:16:45,921 and learned from Budd 255 00:16:46,922 --> 00:16:49,258 that he had received this tape recording in the mail. 256 00:16:51,218 --> 00:16:55,180 Budd called me and said, "I think you ought to hear it." 257 00:16:57,433 --> 00:16:59,810 We listened very carefully. 258 00:17:02,771 --> 00:17:04,898 And there's a voice. 259 00:17:05,941 --> 00:17:07,781 I suppose Linda's already spoken to you 260 00:17:07,818 --> 00:17:10,029 about our unexpected visit to her apartment one evening. 261 00:17:10,112 --> 00:17:12,573 Indeed, it was very uncomfortable, to say the least. 262 00:17:13,991 --> 00:17:17,036 The subject matter was the strangest ever in my line of work. 263 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:18,119 That's Richard. 264 00:17:21,832 --> 00:17:22,750 That's Richard. 265 00:17:26,170 --> 00:17:27,450 Through my binoculars, 266 00:17:28,005 --> 00:17:31,091 I could see Linda was there in this beam of light. 267 00:17:35,012 --> 00:17:38,348 My partner screamed. I felt as though I had lost my breath. 268 00:17:39,516 --> 00:17:40,516 Oh my God. 269 00:17:42,186 --> 00:17:46,523 Here was one of these two men speaking directly to Budd Hopkins. 270 00:17:48,692 --> 00:17:51,695 What happened left us all victims of circumstance. 271 00:17:53,530 --> 00:17:55,908 After actually seeing her and speaking with her, 272 00:17:56,492 --> 00:17:59,161 we could see just how frightened and sincere she was. 273 00:17:59,703 --> 00:18:04,124 You have to think critically. Is this some kind of prank or fraud? 274 00:18:05,042 --> 00:18:10,380 But nothing was in conflict with anything we had learned from Linda. 275 00:18:11,173 --> 00:18:15,928 Please respect the importance of our credibility at work. 276 00:18:16,011 --> 00:18:18,388 We just can't be identified. We'd be laughed at. 277 00:18:24,103 --> 00:18:26,188 People wanted tangible proof. 278 00:18:28,023 --> 00:18:29,566 And that's the proof. 279 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,237 It's not even evidence. It's proof. 280 00:18:41,495 --> 00:18:45,207 As time progressed, a piece of mail arrived at the office. 281 00:18:46,083 --> 00:18:50,045 That was a letter from Richard and Dan that they wrote together. 282 00:18:54,216 --> 00:18:57,594 They explained to Budd they were not police officers 283 00:18:58,262 --> 00:19:01,849 but federal agents acting as protection 284 00:19:01,932 --> 00:19:05,310 for a very high-ranking, well-known diplomat. 285 00:19:06,812 --> 00:19:09,106 The Secretary General of the United Nations, 286 00:19:10,983 --> 00:19:12,234 Pérez de Cuéllar. 287 00:19:20,159 --> 00:19:24,246 That night, he was in the car with Richard and Dan. 288 00:19:26,582 --> 00:19:29,626 He witnessed Linda being taken as well. 289 00:19:32,254 --> 00:19:37,050 {n8}We went to look at videotape of scenes around the United Nations, 290 00:19:37,634 --> 00:19:40,679 hoping to find Richard or Dan. 291 00:19:45,142 --> 00:19:47,186 There you go. Oh boy. 292 00:19:48,937 --> 00:19:52,274 That's Dan guarding the secretary general. 293 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,613 I would recognize him... ten blocks away. 294 00:19:58,363 --> 00:20:00,532 Here he is coming right through that door now. 295 00:20:04,286 --> 00:20:05,787 We're now dealing with 296 00:20:05,871 --> 00:20:09,374 an extraordinarily delicate political situation 297 00:20:10,584 --> 00:20:13,962 that totally changed the game, that totally changed the story. 298 00:20:15,505 --> 00:20:17,341 You can't be dispassionate about it. 299 00:20:18,175 --> 00:20:19,676 This is fucking mind blowing. 300 00:20:23,931 --> 00:20:29,519 To me, the involvement of government officials felt massive. 301 00:20:30,229 --> 00:20:34,316 It was almost addictive, that sense of excitement. 302 00:20:34,399 --> 00:20:38,737 You knew there was enough validity in that story 303 00:20:38,820 --> 00:20:45,202 that you were soon going to know some large truth about human existence. 304 00:20:46,036 --> 00:20:52,459 I've taken video of you in bed in London, in Paris, in Rome. 305 00:20:53,710 --> 00:20:56,588 This was life with Budd as I'd always imagined it. 306 00:20:58,215 --> 00:21:00,259 Working in love and harmony. 307 00:21:01,176 --> 00:21:07,599 Trying to find the answer, the truth, the culmination of what this mystery was. 308 00:21:09,017 --> 00:21:11,436 Budd called the Linda case 309 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:16,066 the most important UFO abduction case in history. 310 00:21:16,817 --> 00:21:20,237 And he wanted to tell that story to the public. 311 00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:29,454 I went to my first UFO conference 312 00:21:30,205 --> 00:21:33,917 to listen to Budd make the case public. 313 00:21:36,712 --> 00:21:40,257 And he took me by the hand and coaxed me up to the podium. 314 00:21:41,550 --> 00:21:44,553 I'm saying to myself, "What am I gonna say to these people?" 315 00:21:44,636 --> 00:21:47,973 I felt a numbness creeping up from my toes. 316 00:21:48,807 --> 00:21:52,853 And, um, well, you know about that, I guess. 317 00:21:53,645 --> 00:21:56,523 She got up and spoke without reservation. 318 00:21:57,399 --> 00:21:59,484 And I thought, "Linda's a natural at this." 319 00:22:00,485 --> 00:22:01,528 Thank you. 320 00:22:01,611 --> 00:22:03,030 And the audience loved her. 321 00:22:04,656 --> 00:22:06,491 They thought that she was a heroine. 322 00:22:11,204 --> 00:22:13,081 Linda's life changed markedly. 323 00:22:15,959 --> 00:22:17,336 She was doing talk shows. 324 00:22:17,419 --> 00:22:19,179 Thanks for holding. Jay Diamond Show. 325 00:22:19,212 --> 00:22:20,672 She was being interviewed. 326 00:22:20,756 --> 00:22:22,841 {n8}When people hear this, do they tell you you're nuts? 327 00:22:22,924 --> 00:22:25,510 {n8}I'll tell you, Jay, I wish I were psychotic. 328 00:22:25,594 --> 00:22:27,429 {n8}At least there's treatment for that. 329 00:22:28,013 --> 00:22:30,265 It was fun. It was exciting. 330 00:22:32,768 --> 00:22:35,979 But it meant that she had much less time with her family. 331 00:22:37,022 --> 00:22:39,983 I think it's very difficult to fully appreciate 332 00:22:40,067 --> 00:22:41,693 the forces pulling at this woman. 333 00:22:41,777 --> 00:22:43,612 She is a mother of two young boys. 334 00:22:43,695 --> 00:22:46,281 She also has her husband, Steve, 335 00:22:46,365 --> 00:22:50,327 who is now caught up in this... madness. 336 00:22:51,578 --> 00:22:53,413 Just to set the scene of that night 337 00:22:53,497 --> 00:22:54,956 and why this is so extraordinary, 338 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,919 it was really that you were lifted out of your window... 339 00:22:59,002 --> 00:23:02,589 When she used to go, I used to stay at home, watch the kids. 340 00:23:02,672 --> 00:23:05,634 - Were you aware of what happened? - Well, I had, uh... 341 00:23:06,885 --> 00:23:09,930 She was famous. I was not. 342 00:23:11,139 --> 00:23:13,934 {n8}No, but, you know, that's the way it was. 343 00:23:16,144 --> 00:23:20,148 I couldn't tell my husband much of anything about the case. 344 00:23:20,774 --> 00:23:22,150 We had a hard time. 345 00:23:23,151 --> 00:23:24,736 He felt helpless. 346 00:23:24,820 --> 00:23:27,114 He had no control over it. 347 00:23:27,197 --> 00:23:28,573 None of us did. 348 00:23:29,199 --> 00:23:32,911 She was, uh... not herself. 349 00:23:32,994 --> 00:23:34,830 She suddenly was edgy. 350 00:23:34,913 --> 00:23:38,750 You know, if I'd say somethin', she'd snap. 351 00:23:42,337 --> 00:23:45,757 The madness that is part of the reality of your life 352 00:23:47,342 --> 00:23:50,095 has bled into the reality of your family. 353 00:23:54,433 --> 00:23:56,059 And in early summer, 354 00:23:56,852 --> 00:23:58,353 an event happened 355 00:23:58,437 --> 00:24:01,314 that added a whole new dimension to what we were dealing with. 356 00:24:13,785 --> 00:24:15,412 We all went to bed late. 357 00:24:17,247 --> 00:24:20,667 Suddenly, I felt something going down my throat, 358 00:24:21,585 --> 00:24:23,044 and I started to choke. 359 00:24:26,590 --> 00:24:29,050 So I went outside into the hallway. 360 00:24:29,843 --> 00:24:34,431 The whole family was standing in the living room with nosebleeds. 361 00:24:37,017 --> 00:24:39,227 What happened? You know, all at once? 362 00:24:40,437 --> 00:24:43,190 I said, "It's... It's crazy." 363 00:24:46,276 --> 00:24:48,445 I had this awful feeling 364 00:24:49,946 --> 00:24:51,490 the aliens were back. 365 00:24:54,075 --> 00:24:57,621 Only this time, they had come back for my family. 366 00:25:02,459 --> 00:25:04,294 When I first started to work for Budd, 367 00:25:04,377 --> 00:25:08,715 we thought that alien abduction was probably like being hit by lightning. 368 00:25:08,798 --> 00:25:12,677 If it happened to you, it was random and certainly wasn't gonna happen again. 369 00:25:16,223 --> 00:25:18,558 But as Budd continued his research, 370 00:25:19,559 --> 00:25:24,397 we learned that these other intelligences weren't just interested in the individual. 371 00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:27,734 Entire families were involved. 372 00:25:28,318 --> 00:25:31,821 People are abducted, uh, through different stages of their lives, 373 00:25:31,905 --> 00:25:34,991 and then their children are sometimes abducted, 374 00:25:35,075 --> 00:25:37,994 suggesting that there was a kind of interest in a bloodline. 375 00:25:39,246 --> 00:25:42,290 They're interested in our DNA, in our personalities, 376 00:25:42,374 --> 00:25:45,544 our affection for our children, our love for one another, 377 00:25:45,627 --> 00:25:48,672 what we think of almost the most human characteristics we have. 378 00:25:49,172 --> 00:25:53,552 My grandmother had something strange happen to her. 379 00:25:54,427 --> 00:25:59,599 She used to see spirits walking around her house. 380 00:26:02,477 --> 00:26:06,273 And then I started having experiences, and my sister too. 381 00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:08,942 We started to see things in the apartment. 382 00:26:09,442 --> 00:26:11,194 Well, that was... It was frightening. 383 00:26:12,571 --> 00:26:16,658 At first, uh, my parents said, uh, to my sister and I, 384 00:26:16,741 --> 00:26:19,703 "Oh, you must've had a bad dream." 385 00:26:21,371 --> 00:26:23,915 But we knew we weren't dreaming. It was too real. 386 00:26:26,376 --> 00:26:29,879 And then, of course, my parents started to see what we were seeing. 387 00:26:29,963 --> 00:26:32,007 Then that was a different story. 388 00:26:32,090 --> 00:26:33,508 And that's when she decided 389 00:26:33,592 --> 00:26:37,137 to... to have the priest come and bless the home. 390 00:26:39,556 --> 00:26:42,726 And so that's what she did, but apparently, it never worked. 391 00:26:43,226 --> 00:26:44,477 We kept seeing them. 392 00:26:45,770 --> 00:26:47,230 What were you seeing? 393 00:26:47,314 --> 00:26:48,356 Aliens. 394 00:26:50,233 --> 00:26:53,069 I'm almost embarrassed even to say that. 395 00:26:53,153 --> 00:26:54,696 It sounds so ridiculous. 396 00:26:55,405 --> 00:26:59,117 But I didn't know at that time that's what they were. 397 00:26:59,618 --> 00:27:01,202 I thought they were ghosts. 398 00:27:03,455 --> 00:27:05,582 We knew that when Linda was taken, 399 00:27:06,166 --> 00:27:10,045 the aliens put a device up her nose. 400 00:27:11,087 --> 00:27:16,384 And now you have your husband and your son and your other son, 401 00:27:16,468 --> 00:27:19,763 all of you bleeding from your right nostril. 402 00:27:22,015 --> 00:27:25,644 Could it be one or a number of individuals in the family 403 00:27:26,645 --> 00:27:28,146 had also been abducted? 404 00:27:32,442 --> 00:27:37,989 Linda had a really smart, quick little boy called Johnny. 405 00:27:40,825 --> 00:27:43,328 And I think the two of them were very, very close. 406 00:27:44,162 --> 00:27:47,666 He was... Dare I say it? He was the favored son. 407 00:27:47,749 --> 00:27:50,335 Listen, John, we're all... all of us, 408 00:27:50,418 --> 00:27:53,088 your dad, your mom, me, you, 409 00:27:54,839 --> 00:27:56,841 all involved in a very strange business. 410 00:27:57,384 --> 00:28:00,970 Budd had already developed a rapport with both of Linda's sons. 411 00:28:01,763 --> 00:28:05,058 And following the night of the nosebleeds, 412 00:28:06,351 --> 00:28:08,144 Johnny and he had a call. 413 00:28:10,438 --> 00:28:12,357 I'm gonna record this if you don't mind. 414 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,484 'Cause I'd like to hear what you have to say. 415 00:28:14,984 --> 00:28:17,195 Do you remember anything at all about that night? 416 00:28:17,278 --> 00:28:18,780 Did you have any dreams at all? 417 00:28:18,863 --> 00:28:19,863 Oh, yes. 418 00:28:20,907 --> 00:28:22,659 In the dream, where were you? 419 00:28:25,203 --> 00:28:26,371 In a room. 420 00:28:26,871 --> 00:28:28,456 It was all white. 421 00:28:29,541 --> 00:28:31,543 And there were two really tall men. 422 00:28:33,044 --> 00:28:35,714 Were these, you know, nice guys, bad guys, or...? 423 00:28:35,797 --> 00:28:37,924 They... they were very, very mean. 424 00:28:38,925 --> 00:28:42,178 I was scared. I didn't know what was happening. 425 00:28:44,806 --> 00:28:47,166 Next thing is you wake up, and you got the nosebleed? 426 00:28:47,225 --> 00:28:48,225 Yes. 427 00:28:49,227 --> 00:28:51,187 Budd, I... I went into the bathroom, 428 00:28:51,271 --> 00:28:54,733 and I felt like I was going to completely throw up. 429 00:28:54,816 --> 00:28:56,067 And I'm scared about it. 430 00:28:56,151 --> 00:28:57,152 You're scared? 431 00:28:57,235 --> 00:29:00,363 Is something wrong with me because I keep having nosebleeds? 432 00:29:00,447 --> 00:29:01,281 Yeah. 433 00:29:01,364 --> 00:29:05,785 Johnny told Budd about his own experiences of being taken. 434 00:29:05,869 --> 00:29:08,288 Experiences not unlike his mother. 435 00:29:09,330 --> 00:29:11,750 When he said that he'd had this dream, 436 00:29:11,833 --> 00:29:14,461 I felt, obviously, an immediate kinda shock. 437 00:29:15,295 --> 00:29:18,256 Here's a little boy who's going to school, and he's a happy little kid. 438 00:29:18,339 --> 00:29:20,884 He's nine years old. He's as smart as he can be. 439 00:29:21,593 --> 00:29:24,637 And, uh, he's having a good, happy little young life. 440 00:29:24,721 --> 00:29:26,181 And yet, here's this whole thing 441 00:29:26,264 --> 00:29:29,768 where he's an unwitting, uh, participant in something. 442 00:29:34,606 --> 00:29:37,984 To confirm it, Budd called Linda in 443 00:29:38,067 --> 00:29:39,486 for a hypnosis session 444 00:29:41,237 --> 00:29:45,950 to understand what she was saying and if it had validity. 445 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,294 Okay, now let's go to the thing that happened recently with Johnny. 446 00:29:57,128 --> 00:29:58,755 I count to three. 447 00:30:02,383 --> 00:30:03,383 One. 448 00:30:05,094 --> 00:30:06,094 Two. 449 00:30:08,348 --> 00:30:09,348 Three. 450 00:30:12,018 --> 00:30:16,231 Ragú, America's tastiest spaghetti sauce, tops everything... 451 00:30:16,981 --> 00:30:19,234 I'm just sitting on the couch. 452 00:30:19,984 --> 00:30:21,820 I worked so hard that day. 453 00:30:22,612 --> 00:30:23,822 So tired. 454 00:30:24,322 --> 00:30:27,534 ...rice is delicious topped with Ragú... 455 00:30:31,746 --> 00:30:34,541 And I said, "Oh, Johnny, you're up again." 456 00:30:38,503 --> 00:30:39,754 "Mommy," he says. 457 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:44,800 "They're here." 458 00:30:51,266 --> 00:30:53,810 Three of 'em in my living room. 459 00:30:56,521 --> 00:31:02,151 Johnny was... was begging not to let this happen. 460 00:31:02,944 --> 00:31:04,696 But I couldn't cry. 461 00:31:05,613 --> 00:31:06,990 I couldn't yell. 462 00:31:08,575 --> 00:31:10,535 I couldn't move. 463 00:31:16,541 --> 00:31:20,044 And then it was silent. 464 00:31:27,302 --> 00:31:28,302 That's awful. 465 00:31:29,470 --> 00:31:30,470 That was awful. 466 00:31:36,144 --> 00:31:38,187 Johnny, at that time, must have... 467 00:31:39,898 --> 00:31:43,610 He must've thought I was a... coward or something. 468 00:31:43,693 --> 00:31:46,654 I just... couldn't move. 469 00:31:47,405 --> 00:31:49,699 I couldn't fight for him. 470 00:31:51,117 --> 00:31:53,411 He must've thought I didn't care anymore. 471 00:31:54,621 --> 00:31:55,747 That's horrible. 472 00:31:59,876 --> 00:32:01,336 Three, almost awake. 473 00:32:01,419 --> 00:32:03,463 Two, one, fully awake. 474 00:32:07,842 --> 00:32:09,177 Wow. 475 00:32:10,511 --> 00:32:13,056 It's been some time since I've had a hypnosis. 476 00:32:13,139 --> 00:32:14,139 Yeah. 477 00:32:15,141 --> 00:32:16,309 That was a bad one. 478 00:32:16,392 --> 00:32:17,392 Yeah. 479 00:32:17,727 --> 00:32:21,314 Why do that to my kids? Or anybody else's kids, for that matter. 480 00:32:21,397 --> 00:32:22,857 Somebody better do something. 481 00:32:24,859 --> 00:32:26,486 Let me get a Kleenex. 482 00:32:29,197 --> 00:32:31,824 Budd was wiping his eyes 483 00:32:31,908 --> 00:32:36,829 in full understanding of what Linda had talked about, 484 00:32:36,913 --> 00:32:40,416 that the aliens were also traumatizing her children. 485 00:32:40,917 --> 00:32:42,961 And they were both weeping. 486 00:32:44,212 --> 00:32:49,175 I became very concerned that he was so emotionally attached. 487 00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:51,886 My alarm bells went off. 488 00:32:55,181 --> 00:32:58,726 I felt that Budd risked losing his objectivity. 489 00:32:59,852 --> 00:33:03,481 I had access to all of Budd's original source material, 490 00:33:04,065 --> 00:33:07,735 so I started building a library of hypnosis sessions 491 00:33:07,819 --> 00:33:09,320 that Budd was doing with people. 492 00:33:11,072 --> 00:33:12,407 I want my mommy. 493 00:33:12,991 --> 00:33:15,827 No, it's so ugly. No! 494 00:33:17,495 --> 00:33:21,082 When I would hear people go under hypnosis, 495 00:33:21,666 --> 00:33:24,293 they would sound like they were a little drunk. 496 00:33:24,377 --> 00:33:25,377 Get me out. 497 00:33:26,295 --> 00:33:30,008 And they were, like, struggling to pull it all together. 498 00:33:30,091 --> 00:33:31,467 It really hurts. 499 00:33:35,513 --> 00:33:37,682 But when Linda was hypnotized... 500 00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:41,769 They push me in the room, 501 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:47,233 and... and I don't wanna go, and I see that... that table. 502 00:33:47,316 --> 00:33:48,776 I see the... 503 00:33:49,819 --> 00:33:51,404 Uh, I think it's a table. 504 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,115 Can you see all four of its legs? 505 00:33:55,074 --> 00:33:56,409 It has no legs. 506 00:33:57,869 --> 00:34:01,873 It looks like a big, long block. 507 00:34:01,956 --> 00:34:07,462 She didn't sound the way the others did when they were deep down. 508 00:34:07,545 --> 00:34:10,882 She had a clear, coherent narrative. 509 00:34:11,924 --> 00:34:15,636 Oh. Oh, I feel like electricity went through me. 510 00:34:16,220 --> 00:34:21,017 I just didn't believe that she was under hypnosis. 511 00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:22,100 That hurt. 512 00:34:24,771 --> 00:34:28,566 So then I thought, "What is going on here?" 513 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,736 I'm gonna record this if you don't mind. 514 00:34:31,819 --> 00:34:33,362 I'd like to hear what you have to say. 515 00:34:33,446 --> 00:34:37,700 I listened to the phone call that Budd had with her son Johnny, 516 00:34:37,784 --> 00:34:42,705 and I could hear a couple of points where he pauses, 517 00:34:42,789 --> 00:34:45,083 and you're not sure why. 518 00:34:45,583 --> 00:34:50,838 I was looking out the window one day, and then something, like... 519 00:34:50,922 --> 00:34:51,922 No, wait. 520 00:34:52,632 --> 00:34:56,010 Yeah. Then something was pulling me out of the window. 521 00:34:57,887 --> 00:35:02,767 She could have coached him to get aligned with her own story. 522 00:35:05,186 --> 00:35:08,856 I didn't think that I was mad or wrong to have doubts. 523 00:35:10,817 --> 00:35:12,568 I became very concerned. 524 00:35:14,028 --> 00:35:17,156 I thought Linda was going to be the case of the century. 525 00:35:18,533 --> 00:35:22,245 But was I actually making a film 526 00:35:22,328 --> 00:35:26,082 about an extremely practiced hoax? 527 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,419 I was going into the spaceship, 528 00:35:32,088 --> 00:35:33,256 uh, through the window, 529 00:35:33,339 --> 00:35:36,008 and I asked myself, "Doesn't my mommy love me anymore?" 530 00:35:36,092 --> 00:35:39,262 Because she just walked, and she was just frozen there. 531 00:35:39,345 --> 00:35:40,972 She didn't do anything. 532 00:35:41,055 --> 00:35:45,893 Did Linda convince her son he had been abducted by aliens? 533 00:35:47,687 --> 00:35:50,523 You don't lie about things like that to children. 534 00:35:51,149 --> 00:35:52,400 Don't lie about it. 535 00:35:53,276 --> 00:35:55,653 It would have been traumatizing for him. 536 00:35:57,071 --> 00:35:58,906 I feel sorry for him 537 00:35:59,448 --> 00:36:03,077 because, you see, he's young, and he has his whole life ahead of him. 538 00:36:03,161 --> 00:36:06,831 But as a mother, how can you sit there and say that calmly? 539 00:36:07,748 --> 00:36:08,749 Calmly? 540 00:36:10,918 --> 00:36:13,129 It's not new to me anymore. 541 00:36:14,255 --> 00:36:17,967 I wish I could do something about it, but there isn't anything anyone can do. 542 00:36:20,011 --> 00:36:22,138 By going out and speaking about it, 543 00:36:22,221 --> 00:36:24,473 Budd had backed himself into a corner. 544 00:36:25,183 --> 00:36:26,893 Because if it wasn't true, 545 00:36:27,393 --> 00:36:31,314 it would be the end of his career as a UFO investigator. 546 00:36:36,110 --> 00:36:39,655 Basically, what I wanted to ask you about is Johnny. 547 00:36:39,739 --> 00:36:42,033 So I took a deep breath, 548 00:36:42,116 --> 00:36:47,330 and I just suggested the possibility that Linda may have coached Johnny. 549 00:36:48,456 --> 00:36:50,499 That made Budd very unhappy. 550 00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:54,545 {n8}I don't think there's any remote possibility 551 00:36:54,629 --> 00:36:57,131 {n8}of this child doing anything here 552 00:36:57,215 --> 00:36:59,675 {n8}but trying to remember what happened to him. 553 00:37:00,259 --> 00:37:05,431 {n8}Uh, you can't take a nine-or ten-year-old and train them to... to remember 554 00:37:05,514 --> 00:37:08,851 {n8}some enormously complicated story or series of stories. 555 00:37:08,935 --> 00:37:13,773 Budd would not support me questioning things like that. 556 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,692 He found that very offensive. 557 00:37:16,776 --> 00:37:21,989 Either his mother is controlling him in a sociopathic manner 558 00:37:22,073 --> 00:37:24,784 {n8}and has drilled this into him and so on and so forth. 559 00:37:24,867 --> 00:37:27,119 {n8}Or the other, he's remembering what happened to him. 560 00:37:27,203 --> 00:37:28,746 {n8}There's no other alternative here. 561 00:37:28,829 --> 00:37:31,082 My questions were putting him off. 562 00:37:31,165 --> 00:37:32,917 That was the bottom line of it. 563 00:37:33,459 --> 00:37:36,921 And that I should keep those to myself. 564 00:37:37,004 --> 00:37:38,756 If that was your daughter, 565 00:37:38,839 --> 00:37:43,219 would you be doing anything differently from what you're doing right now? 566 00:37:45,888 --> 00:37:47,014 If it were my daughter... 567 00:37:47,515 --> 00:37:50,434 Well, I don't really know if I can answer that. 568 00:37:50,518 --> 00:37:53,980 It's so enormous a question and so hypothetical. 569 00:37:55,022 --> 00:37:56,022 Um... 570 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,151 It's simpler to believe that he's just like a little boy 571 00:37:59,235 --> 00:38:00,569 remembering what happened. 572 00:38:11,497 --> 00:38:12,832 Honey, I want you to eat. 573 00:38:12,915 --> 00:38:14,250 I don't wanna eat. 574 00:38:18,629 --> 00:38:23,009 I was very angry because I didn't know what I should do. 575 00:38:24,302 --> 00:38:26,804 I knew I could not question my husband, 576 00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:30,182 the person who was doing the investigating, 577 00:38:30,266 --> 00:38:32,184 because I didn't wanna lose my marriage. 578 00:38:32,893 --> 00:38:35,813 But I needed to find out the truth. 579 00:38:36,689 --> 00:38:38,983 And I can't stop doing that 580 00:38:39,066 --> 00:38:41,902 'cause I don't know what kind of a marriage you can have 581 00:38:42,778 --> 00:38:45,364 if your own self is lost in it. 582 00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:54,957 So I decided to keep the camera rolling... 583 00:38:57,043 --> 00:39:01,172 until I could prove Linda's case was a hoax. 584 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,555 How... how could she say the things she said 585 00:39:10,056 --> 00:39:12,183 after what my family and I went through? 586 00:39:15,269 --> 00:39:17,188 Johnny was just a little boy. 587 00:39:19,774 --> 00:39:20,983 But he's grown up. 588 00:39:21,067 --> 00:39:23,402 He's different. He's an adult now. 589 00:39:24,987 --> 00:39:27,573 Do you think Johnny'll talk to us about it? 590 00:39:27,656 --> 00:39:28,824 No, he won't. 591 00:39:29,992 --> 00:39:34,288 Uh, no, he won't. Uh, John... John won't... won't talk about it. 592 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,964 I don't know if he's afraid or if he's angry about it. 593 00:39:46,175 --> 00:39:49,720 But he really despises the subject. 594 00:39:55,518 --> 00:40:00,398 It's gotta be the most terrifying and hopeless thing that I've ever felt. 595 00:40:01,732 --> 00:40:02,732 Yeah. 596 00:40:04,151 --> 00:40:09,365 So I was very reluctant to even start talking about this again. 597 00:40:11,325 --> 00:40:13,536 {n8}It's been, uh, over 30 years, really, 598 00:40:13,619 --> 00:40:16,580 {n8}since I sat down and seriously talked about this 599 00:40:16,664 --> 00:40:18,416 {n8}with anybody but my therapist.