1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:10,000 Synced and corrected by PopcornAWH - www.addic7ed.com - 2 00:00:55,681 --> 00:00:58,100 - Hey, Tom. How are you? - Hey, how are you? 3 00:00:58,183 --> 00:00:59,476 - Come on in. - Hello. 4 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:00,619 Good to see you. 5 00:01:06,191 --> 00:01:10,696 Being Jane Doe, for me, that was paramount. 6 00:01:11,061 --> 00:01:13,193 I didn't want anyone to know who I was, I 7 00:01:13,226 --> 00:01:15,033 didn't want anybody to know my family. 8 00:01:15,742 --> 00:01:21,873 For quite some time, I trusted that I had some privacy with that. 9 00:01:22,207 --> 00:01:24,626 Because I was always afraid of what people were gonna say 10 00:01:24,710 --> 00:01:26,420 and think about what I had said. 11 00:01:27,754 --> 00:01:32,050 What's your view of what most likely happened to her? 12 00:01:34,303 --> 00:01:39,016 I believe that Cathy Cesnik was murdered... 13 00:01:39,516 --> 00:01:41,810 by someone she knew. 14 00:01:41,893 --> 00:01:46,898 I believe that it wasn't a stranger who killed Cathy Cesnik. 15 00:01:47,691 --> 00:01:51,945 It may have been a stranger to her who moved her body, 16 00:01:52,029 --> 00:01:56,533 or a stranger to her who cleaned up after, 17 00:01:56,783 --> 00:02:01,455 but I don't believe that it was a stranger who killed Cathy Cesnik. 18 00:02:01,538 --> 00:02:04,833 Cathy Cesnik was killed because she was going to talk 19 00:02:05,125 --> 00:02:07,252 about what went on at that school, 20 00:02:07,502 --> 00:02:10,744 and I believe that there were more than one person 21 00:02:10,769 --> 00:02:14,773 who was really afraid that she was going to, um, out them. 22 00:02:16,219 --> 00:02:20,891 And they used her death to keep me quiet. 23 00:03:46,685 --> 00:03:49,938 Baltimore has always been a quintessentially Catholic city. 24 00:03:52,482 --> 00:03:54,735 Baltimore is the home of Roman Catholicism. 25 00:03:55,819 --> 00:03:58,822 John Carroll founded the first archdiocese here, 26 00:03:58,905 --> 00:04:00,907 maybe the late 1700s. 27 00:04:03,577 --> 00:04:06,455 Baltimore is a city of firsts. 28 00:04:07,664 --> 00:04:08,999 The first telegraph... 29 00:04:11,001 --> 00:04:13,170 the first streetlights... 30 00:04:14,129 --> 00:04:15,172 the trains. 31 00:04:17,632 --> 00:04:21,636 And it is the first diocese in the United States. 32 00:04:22,179 --> 00:04:26,808 Every neighborhood had its own parish. Everybody went to church. 33 00:04:26,892 --> 00:04:28,602 I mean, rosary, 34 00:04:29,144 --> 00:04:31,480 May processions were a big thing, 35 00:04:31,897 --> 00:04:33,106 First Communions. 36 00:04:33,690 --> 00:04:36,485 All the Sacraments were a really big deal. 37 00:04:37,819 --> 00:04:42,741 You were not only going to school with people that were Catholic, 38 00:04:42,824 --> 00:04:44,675 going to church with people Catholic, you 39 00:04:44,687 --> 00:04:46,328 were living in Catholic communities. 40 00:04:48,330 --> 00:04:51,500 But Baltimore has always been a working-class city. 41 00:04:53,752 --> 00:04:56,713 In 1969, when Sister Cathy dies, 42 00:04:57,214 --> 00:05:02,385 we lived in a much more basic, simplistic, primitive society. 43 00:05:04,262 --> 00:05:06,295 This is a world of blue-collar folks, 44 00:05:06,307 --> 00:05:08,517 they're working in these factory jobs. 45 00:05:09,768 --> 00:05:12,145 They are living in little row houses, 46 00:05:12,229 --> 00:05:14,856 they are tending little postage-stamp lawns. 47 00:05:15,565 --> 00:05:17,442 They are living for that glorious moment 48 00:05:17,526 --> 00:05:19,727 when their little daughter puts on a 49 00:05:19,739 --> 00:05:22,197 veil and goes for her First Communion. 50 00:05:26,326 --> 00:05:28,787 I was one of ten siblings. 51 00:05:29,162 --> 00:05:34,042 There were three boys... me, then three boys, 52 00:05:34,501 --> 00:05:36,545 then there were two girls and a boy. 53 00:05:37,671 --> 00:05:39,413 It was a good Catholic family. Eleven 54 00:05:39,425 --> 00:05:41,132 months later you had another baby. 55 00:05:54,062 --> 00:05:57,065 My parents were good Catholic parents. 56 00:05:58,608 --> 00:06:01,611 Everybody went to church on Sunday, 57 00:06:01,695 --> 00:06:05,156 and if you didn't have a ride because dad was a policeman 58 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,076 and he worked shift work, you'd walk to church. 59 00:06:08,952 --> 00:06:10,287 You know, it was unheard of 60 00:06:10,370 --> 00:06:15,584 to either miss church on Sunday or eat meat on Friday. 61 00:06:15,667 --> 00:06:17,419 During the Cuban Missile Crisis, 62 00:06:17,502 --> 00:06:19,838 we all knelt down and said the rosary. 63 00:06:21,256 --> 00:06:24,676 The Catholic religion, the Catholic faith was part of who we were. 64 00:06:29,055 --> 00:06:30,432 We were all altar boys. 65 00:06:31,308 --> 00:06:34,477 We were told it was an honor and a privilege to be an altar boy. 66 00:06:36,896 --> 00:06:39,983 The priests were the authority. 67 00:06:40,984 --> 00:06:42,360 You don't question them. 68 00:06:42,444 --> 00:06:46,406 Uh, you... You... Whatever they told you to do, you did. 69 00:06:47,157 --> 00:06:48,325 My mom was very devout. 70 00:06:48,408 --> 00:06:51,703 It was an integral part of the family, which came from her. 71 00:06:52,245 --> 00:06:55,081 But my dad was there. I mean, like, if we went to confession, 72 00:06:55,498 --> 00:06:57,606 it was nothing like seeing your father go 73 00:06:57,618 --> 00:06:59,586 to confession first and then come out. 74 00:06:59,669 --> 00:07:03,089 It was kind of like... If he believed and trusted the confessional, 75 00:07:03,173 --> 00:07:04,215 then we all did, too. 76 00:07:05,675 --> 00:07:09,429 My mother was, in fact, a true Christian. 77 00:07:10,263 --> 00:07:13,141 If you lived right and you loved God, 78 00:07:13,558 --> 00:07:15,226 that faith that you exhibited, 79 00:07:15,477 --> 00:07:18,229 plus the love that you had for your fellow man, 80 00:07:18,647 --> 00:07:23,193 would provide the hope that you need in order to succeed. 81 00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:39,918 Got you some cereal, 82 00:07:40,293 --> 00:07:44,756 put some strawberries on it today instead of banana. 83 00:07:47,842 --> 00:07:50,804 - So, there's that, okay? - Mm-hm. 84 00:07:50,887 --> 00:07:52,138 Your coffee. 85 00:07:53,473 --> 00:07:55,016 We'll let that cool a little bit. 86 00:07:56,017 --> 00:07:57,035 Alrighty? 87 00:08:09,698 --> 00:08:10,865 This is my senior. 88 00:08:12,075 --> 00:08:17,163 This was the end of a pretty horrific experience. 89 00:08:17,539 --> 00:08:22,877 And I probably was relieved that it was... ending. 90 00:08:24,921 --> 00:08:26,339 She holds memories, 91 00:08:26,423 --> 00:08:28,925 and I've been afraid of those memories. 92 00:08:37,392 --> 00:08:42,313 Archbishop Keough was the jewel in the archdiocese. 93 00:08:43,398 --> 00:08:45,942 It was a really nice new school. 94 00:08:46,484 --> 00:08:50,405 It had that spanking-new type of, uh, look to it. 95 00:08:51,489 --> 00:08:55,285 Run by nuns, the School Sisters of Notre Dame. 96 00:08:56,870 --> 00:08:58,759 It was really a big deal to be 97 00:08:58,771 --> 00:09:00,623 accepted to go to Archbishop Keough. 98 00:09:01,041 --> 00:09:03,501 You had to get in. You had to take an entrance exam. 99 00:09:03,585 --> 00:09:06,546 So, the big day in eighth grade would be when you came home for lunch 100 00:09:06,629 --> 00:09:08,590 and your letter was waiting for you 101 00:09:08,602 --> 00:09:10,800 that you had been admitted to Keough. 102 00:09:11,885 --> 00:09:13,303 It was prestigious. 103 00:09:14,262 --> 00:09:16,765 I was very excited because that's exactly 104 00:09:16,848 --> 00:09:20,101 where I wanted to go. It was within walking distance of my house. 105 00:09:20,810 --> 00:09:22,687 I really was excited about going. 106 00:09:22,771 --> 00:09:26,066 I remember my freshman year, I was very, very happy to be there. 107 00:09:27,942 --> 00:09:31,488 My parents worked hard that I could go to it. 108 00:09:32,822 --> 00:09:34,699 It was very exciting... 109 00:09:35,408 --> 00:09:37,035 but really strict. 110 00:09:38,286 --> 00:09:40,663 There was order, discipline. 111 00:09:40,955 --> 00:09:44,751 You know, you had nuns all over the place. There were a lot of nuns. 112 00:09:47,462 --> 00:09:49,725 Our administrators were nuns, 113 00:09:49,737 --> 00:09:52,258 our principal, our assistant principal. 114 00:09:53,384 --> 00:09:55,512 Joseph Maskell was the chaplain. 115 00:09:57,180 --> 00:10:02,560 There was also a priest by the name of Father Neil Magnus. 116 00:10:03,019 --> 00:10:05,374 He was responsible for studies or... 117 00:10:05,386 --> 00:10:07,816 Christian education or something... 118 00:10:07,899 --> 00:10:10,360 I never saw the man, that I remember. 119 00:10:20,537 --> 00:10:22,725 They had language labs and 120 00:10:22,737 --> 00:10:24,999 really state-of-the-art equipment. 121 00:10:25,542 --> 00:10:27,710 They had a science room. 122 00:10:28,670 --> 00:10:30,547 They had a large gym. 123 00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:34,467 It had a large outdoor field for different sports. 124 00:10:35,677 --> 00:10:39,681 They even put "we are women of a new age" in their song, 125 00:10:40,014 --> 00:10:42,522 and it was just supposed to be women being 126 00:10:42,534 --> 00:10:44,644 able to reach their full potential. 127 00:10:44,727 --> 00:10:46,521 It was supposed to be a safe place. 128 00:10:53,611 --> 00:10:55,345 My life would have been very different 129 00:10:55,357 --> 00:10:57,240 if I had not gone in that confessional. 130 00:11:02,704 --> 00:11:03,913 I was at Keough. 131 00:11:03,997 --> 00:11:05,123 I was a freshman. 132 00:11:07,208 --> 00:11:09,544 I went to confession there. 133 00:11:12,964 --> 00:11:15,675 It took me five tries to get to the confessional. 134 00:11:19,304 --> 00:11:20,805 I got in the confessional... 135 00:11:21,389 --> 00:11:26,686 and I told the priest something that I was feeling very guilty about. 136 00:11:29,272 --> 00:11:32,400 I had been abused by an uncle when I was younger. 137 00:11:33,443 --> 00:11:37,947 He was a pedophile and he was sexually abusing me. 138 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,035 That had ended, there was some guilt. 139 00:11:43,995 --> 00:11:46,027 And I always remembered it was Magnus 140 00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:48,082 and always remembered that he said: 141 00:11:48,791 --> 00:11:50,877 "Can I look at you, and what is your name?" 142 00:11:52,503 --> 00:11:55,465 "And I always thought," God, this must have been so terrible 143 00:11:55,548 --> 00:11:57,717 that he had to look at me and ask my name." 144 00:11:59,636 --> 00:12:01,888 And at the end of it he said: 145 00:12:01,971 --> 00:12:04,515 "I don't really know if God can forgive this. 146 00:12:05,058 --> 00:12:08,394 I'm going to have to pray more on this and I'll get back to you." 147 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,953 Probably a couple weeks later, the same priest, Magnus, 148 00:12:25,036 --> 00:12:26,663 walked up to me in the hall... 149 00:12:27,705 --> 00:12:30,500 and he said he wanted to see me in his office. 150 00:12:35,296 --> 00:12:37,548 And Magnus was there... 151 00:12:37,924 --> 00:12:42,261 and he proceeded to just reiterate that I was so bad... 152 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,998 that it was going to take a while before 153 00:12:46,010 --> 00:12:48,935 there was going to be a real answer 154 00:12:49,018 --> 00:12:50,687 to whether God could forgive me. 155 00:12:52,605 --> 00:12:57,360 And that if I emptied myself of these behaviors 156 00:12:57,443 --> 00:13:00,446 that were so sinful, so bad... 157 00:13:00,989 --> 00:13:02,532 that it would make room for God 158 00:13:02,615 --> 00:13:05,702 to be able to fill me with the Holy Spirit... 159 00:13:06,369 --> 00:13:08,621 and that I could be forgiven. 160 00:13:09,706 --> 00:13:12,875 The things that he was doing was "sacramental," 161 00:13:12,959 --> 00:13:14,127 you know, quote-unquote. 162 00:13:14,585 --> 00:13:15,585 Um... 163 00:13:15,586 --> 00:13:18,719 That, you know, he talked about, uh, 164 00:13:18,731 --> 00:13:22,051 his come as the Eucharist, you know. 165 00:13:22,135 --> 00:13:26,931 He was doing symbols on me of the crucifix with it 166 00:13:27,015 --> 00:13:29,642 as if it was, uh, sacred. 167 00:13:30,143 --> 00:13:32,580 He was also saying that his come was 168 00:13:32,592 --> 00:13:35,314 the Holy Spirit that I was to swallow. 169 00:13:36,899 --> 00:13:38,401 I was very naive. 170 00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:40,862 I was extremely innocent. 171 00:13:41,446 --> 00:13:46,617 I had no idea that this was, um, abusive. 172 00:13:46,701 --> 00:13:50,747 I felt that it was a man of... 173 00:13:51,039 --> 00:13:53,791 Of authority, of faith, 174 00:13:53,875 --> 00:13:59,005 who was helping me become a good person. 175 00:14:00,006 --> 00:14:05,511 He was reminding me that the things that I had done were... 176 00:14:05,595 --> 00:14:08,264 weren't done to me. That I made those things happen. 177 00:14:11,309 --> 00:14:15,730 After a couple of my therapy sessions with him, 178 00:14:15,813 --> 00:14:17,440 I went into the room... 179 00:14:18,441 --> 00:14:20,735 and then Maskell came in. 180 00:14:23,863 --> 00:14:26,366 From the beginning, I was afraid of Maskell. 181 00:14:26,657 --> 00:14:29,619 He had no qualms being angry with me. 182 00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:32,955 He started very early on calling me a whore. 183 00:14:35,041 --> 00:14:37,287 They would pray in Latin over me as 184 00:14:37,299 --> 00:14:39,879 they were having me do things to them, 185 00:14:39,962 --> 00:14:42,340 or they were doing things to me. 186 00:14:42,423 --> 00:14:44,967 Or one would be praying over me in Latin 187 00:14:45,051 --> 00:14:48,262 while the other one would be, you know, kind of saying: 188 00:14:48,346 --> 00:14:52,183 "Take the Holy Spirit," and, um... You know, through his penis. 189 00:14:53,810 --> 00:14:55,701 So, it is a very interesting dynamic 190 00:14:55,713 --> 00:14:57,563 to feel both of them in the room, 191 00:14:57,647 --> 00:14:58,981 to be cornered by them both, 192 00:14:59,065 --> 00:15:04,695 to feel two men of not only great size, 193 00:15:05,071 --> 00:15:09,158 but that they were powerful because they represented God. 194 00:15:11,119 --> 00:15:14,163 I... I wanted to get out of that room, 195 00:15:14,622 --> 00:15:18,626 and yet I felt that I had to be in the room in order to... 196 00:15:19,293 --> 00:15:21,921 to... be a good person. 197 00:15:22,630 --> 00:15:27,093 It was... It was the beginning of some of the thickest confusion 198 00:15:27,510 --> 00:15:30,430 that, um, probably could be imagined. 199 00:15:35,643 --> 00:15:37,395 At a particular point... 200 00:15:38,187 --> 00:15:42,692 I went to the room and it was just Maskell there. 201 00:15:43,526 --> 00:15:45,445 And it was a very scary point. 202 00:15:47,947 --> 00:15:52,452 He was angry at me because I wasn't getting better. 203 00:15:53,995 --> 00:15:58,458 I remember one time he was real angry and he was raping me. 204 00:15:58,541 --> 00:16:02,336 And I can remember my head hitting the... the wall. 205 00:16:04,839 --> 00:16:07,341 He was really upset and angry about something... 206 00:16:07,758 --> 00:16:10,344 and he was really taking it out on me. 207 00:16:12,388 --> 00:16:14,474 I couldn't figure out what I could do 208 00:16:14,557 --> 00:16:17,727 because I kept feeling like every time it was over, I thought: 209 00:16:17,810 --> 00:16:19,812 "Well, maybe this time God forgave me." 210 00:16:23,441 --> 00:16:28,070 I had never been in a school where a priest had a presence 211 00:16:28,154 --> 00:16:31,782 like the priests had there, because they had offices at Keough. 212 00:16:33,117 --> 00:16:36,370 Father Maskell wielded a lot of power 213 00:16:36,621 --> 00:16:39,373 and fear in people 214 00:16:39,457 --> 00:16:42,543 because you didn't wanna be called to his office or get in trouble. 215 00:16:43,336 --> 00:16:47,089 He was chaplain and school counselor at Keough. 216 00:16:48,674 --> 00:16:51,010 The building itself was a very long... 217 00:16:51,093 --> 00:16:55,473 rectangle with some corridors that went off in different directions. 218 00:16:55,806 --> 00:17:00,144 And his office was far from the administrative offices. 219 00:17:00,228 --> 00:17:03,898 He was down at the far corner where there was an exit. 220 00:17:04,690 --> 00:17:08,069 You used to see a lot of girls coming in and out of his office, 221 00:17:08,152 --> 00:17:10,196 which was kind of strange. 222 00:17:10,279 --> 00:17:11,822 But then I learned that: 223 00:17:11,906 --> 00:17:12,907 "Hey, you know what?" 224 00:17:12,990 --> 00:17:16,494 If you wanna smoke, you... You can go in Maskell's office and smoke. 225 00:17:16,577 --> 00:17:18,871 "Just go in there, talk to him, just hang out and talk." 226 00:17:20,873 --> 00:17:22,542 Maskell was an Irish priest 227 00:17:22,625 --> 00:17:27,964 right out of the traditional working-class Irish-American community. 228 00:17:29,048 --> 00:17:33,010 His mother often dressed her boy in Mass vestments. 229 00:17:33,094 --> 00:17:35,930 She used to sew him vestments and he'd dress up in them and... 230 00:17:36,013 --> 00:17:36,930 Mm-hm. 231 00:17:36,931 --> 00:17:39,058 ...call the neighborhood kids over to say Mass for them. 232 00:17:40,309 --> 00:17:42,581 She went and bought NECCO Wafers and 233 00:17:42,593 --> 00:17:44,814 she segregated the white ones out 234 00:17:44,897 --> 00:17:48,943 so that they could serve as imitation hosts for Communion. 235 00:17:49,527 --> 00:17:52,029 While the other boys were playing football and baseball 236 00:17:52,113 --> 00:17:54,282 down two blocks away at the park... 237 00:17:56,784 --> 00:17:58,619 he would say Mass in the yard. 238 00:18:01,372 --> 00:18:04,792 From 15 years old, he was priest-in-training. 239 00:18:07,670 --> 00:18:10,089 In '65, he was ordained. 240 00:18:11,716 --> 00:18:15,595 And then his first assignment from 1965 to 1966 241 00:18:16,178 --> 00:18:19,181 was at a Baltimore parish named Sacred Heart of Mary. 242 00:18:21,142 --> 00:18:26,606 In '66, he was transferred to St. Clement Parish, which is adjacent 243 00:18:26,689 --> 00:18:28,774 to Archbishop Keough High School. 244 00:18:29,942 --> 00:18:32,445 He was made associate pastor there. 245 00:18:34,822 --> 00:18:37,033 And he supervised the Boy Scout troop there. 246 00:18:51,672 --> 00:18:52,965 This is my, uh... 247 00:18:54,342 --> 00:18:57,470 I guess... My wife calls it a dust collection room. 248 00:18:59,513 --> 00:19:02,308 That was my retirement certificate. 249 00:19:04,185 --> 00:19:06,520 There's my grandfather. The great-great-grandfather 250 00:19:06,604 --> 00:19:09,940 I was telling you about, Southern District policeman in Baltimore, 251 00:19:10,024 --> 00:19:11,984 and there's a picture of him later. 252 00:19:13,944 --> 00:19:16,364 Me and my brother worked 253 00:19:16,447 --> 00:19:18,699 in the police station he worked out of, so... 254 00:19:19,408 --> 00:19:20,910 Kind of like family tradition. 255 00:19:25,998 --> 00:19:30,795 When I started Catholic school in the early '60s, 256 00:19:30,878 --> 00:19:32,505 it was a pretty harsh environment. 257 00:19:33,631 --> 00:19:34,632 We were paddled. 258 00:19:34,715 --> 00:19:38,761 I mean, the nuns... We feared the nuns and... 259 00:19:39,011 --> 00:19:40,913 Not only the nuns, but the priests, 260 00:19:40,925 --> 00:19:43,057 they were on a whole different level. 261 00:19:43,140 --> 00:19:47,561 The priests were... more like godlike figures, and... 262 00:19:48,229 --> 00:19:52,566 I mean, they'd walk in the room, it'd just be silence, and, um... 263 00:19:52,650 --> 00:19:54,585 But this priest, Father Joseph Maskell, 264 00:19:54,597 --> 00:19:56,195 there was something about him. 265 00:19:56,737 --> 00:20:00,199 He had a... coldness about him. 266 00:20:00,741 --> 00:20:03,285 And I've served Mass for different priests. 267 00:20:04,662 --> 00:20:08,290 And one day, we were getting ready for Mass... 268 00:20:08,374 --> 00:20:11,001 You know, the altar boys, we'd get there a little early. 269 00:20:11,085 --> 00:20:13,337 He'd come into the sacristy and, um... 270 00:20:14,422 --> 00:20:17,299 He takes a handgun out of his pocket and put it on the... 271 00:20:17,383 --> 00:20:18,801 the counter in the sacristy. 272 00:20:19,176 --> 00:20:22,012 And being a street-smart kid, you know, from the city, 273 00:20:22,555 --> 00:20:25,266 growing up watching Adam-12 and things like that, I mean... 274 00:20:27,268 --> 00:20:30,521 Probably most kids wouldn't have questioned him, but... 275 00:20:31,230 --> 00:20:32,289 I just let it go. 276 00:20:32,773 --> 00:20:35,151 And I asked him, "Father, why do you have a handgun?" 277 00:20:35,234 --> 00:20:37,319 "You're a priest." And I'll never forget that. 278 00:20:37,653 --> 00:20:39,947 But I'll also never forget the look he gave me. 279 00:20:40,281 --> 00:20:42,742 I mean, he... Like as if he looked through me: 280 00:20:42,825 --> 00:20:44,076 "How dare you question me." 281 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,080 I didn't get a look like that... 282 00:20:48,956 --> 00:20:53,669 until years later interviewing violent offenders... 283 00:20:54,044 --> 00:20:56,589 talking to someone who had murdered somebody, 284 00:20:56,672 --> 00:20:57,715 looking in their eyes. 285 00:20:57,798 --> 00:20:59,383 That's when I got that look again. 286 00:21:13,522 --> 00:21:16,567 One time I went into the room and he said, 287 00:21:16,650 --> 00:21:20,154 uh, that it was time for me to participate in this. 288 00:21:21,614 --> 00:21:24,700 And he went over and took something out of the drawer, 289 00:21:24,784 --> 00:21:26,035 and it looked like a penis. 290 00:21:26,577 --> 00:21:29,830 And I was, like, not sure 291 00:21:29,914 --> 00:21:32,082 what in the world he was doing or what that was. 292 00:21:33,125 --> 00:21:37,755 He said, "So, now, you're gonna be participating in your therapy." 293 00:21:39,507 --> 00:21:43,010 And so he began to use it, and I remember crying and saying: 294 00:21:43,093 --> 00:21:44,970 "Please stop that, please stop that." 295 00:21:45,054 --> 00:21:48,349 And as it began to take effect... 296 00:21:48,933 --> 00:21:51,644 he came down real close and, you know, he was like: 297 00:21:51,727 --> 00:21:54,480 "Okay, let's see how much the whore likes it," you know. 298 00:21:54,688 --> 00:21:59,485 Um, and so then I had an orgasm, not knowing what that was. 299 00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:05,074 He came in close. He always liked to come down close. 300 00:22:05,699 --> 00:22:07,701 "And he said," You hated that... 301 00:22:08,494 --> 00:22:09,495 and I'm glad." 302 00:22:10,621 --> 00:22:13,457 And he said, "Get back to class. Don't be late." 303 00:22:15,501 --> 00:22:17,169 He never gave me a napkin. 304 00:22:17,253 --> 00:22:19,255 He never would hand me a handkerchief. 305 00:22:19,797 --> 00:22:25,553 He never told me I could use his bathroom. 306 00:22:25,636 --> 00:22:26,971 It was always... 307 00:22:27,805 --> 00:22:30,933 Uh, "Pull yourself together and get back to class." 308 00:22:38,607 --> 00:22:40,234 And I'd hear the click of the door, 309 00:22:40,317 --> 00:22:42,695 and it was like I forgot everything that had happened. 310 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,702 I was walking in the hall... 311 00:22:50,202 --> 00:22:53,247 and I couldn't figure out where I was supposed to be. 312 00:22:59,128 --> 00:23:02,840 "And Cathy Cesnik looked down and she said, "Jean, where are you...? 313 00:23:02,923 --> 00:23:05,759 Where are you supposed to be?" And I said, "I don't know." 314 00:23:10,222 --> 00:23:11,765 So, she told her class to... 315 00:23:13,517 --> 00:23:15,603 She'd be a minute and she went across the hall 316 00:23:15,686 --> 00:23:18,439 and she asked the teacher, "Is Jean supposed to be in here?" 317 00:23:18,522 --> 00:23:21,358 And she said, "Yes." And she said, "Jean, you belong in here." 318 00:23:21,650 --> 00:23:23,736 Then I went in and I sat down in a desk. 319 00:23:32,745 --> 00:23:37,708 Sister Cathy was the type of person that was approachable, 320 00:23:37,791 --> 00:23:41,337 and you knew that you could talk to her. 321 00:23:41,712 --> 00:23:44,798 You didn't get that all the time from the older nuns. 322 00:23:45,633 --> 00:23:48,010 You didn't feel like you could connect with them. 323 00:23:48,093 --> 00:23:49,803 They were more authoritarian. 324 00:23:50,304 --> 00:23:53,098 Sister Cathy was my favorite teacher. 325 00:23:54,475 --> 00:23:58,562 I played guitar, so I had my guitar with me all the time. 326 00:23:59,063 --> 00:24:01,580 And Sister Cathy played guitar, too, 327 00:24:01,592 --> 00:24:04,401 so I did a lot of practicing with her. 328 00:24:05,944 --> 00:24:09,198 She had more energy than any person I've ever met. 329 00:24:09,698 --> 00:24:12,951 Very upbeat and happy. 330 00:24:14,244 --> 00:24:15,990 You could talk to her about anything 331 00:24:16,002 --> 00:24:17,956 you wanted to talk to her about and... 332 00:24:19,416 --> 00:24:21,164 Sometimes she would give you advice 333 00:24:21,176 --> 00:24:23,087 and sometimes she would just listen. 334 00:24:25,297 --> 00:24:27,883 She just had a way of soothing your soul. 335 00:24:33,806 --> 00:24:37,226 At Keough, she was probably around... 25. 336 00:24:38,102 --> 00:24:39,770 So young. 337 00:24:41,063 --> 00:24:43,190 All through elementary school, 338 00:24:43,273 --> 00:24:46,318 the majority of the nuns that taught you were older. 339 00:24:46,694 --> 00:24:49,238 I mean, I had the same second grade nun 340 00:24:49,250 --> 00:24:51,740 that my father and his brothers had. 341 00:24:51,824 --> 00:24:53,617 So, she must have been a hundred. 342 00:24:54,535 --> 00:24:55,994 When we got to Keough, 343 00:24:56,704 --> 00:24:58,247 there were a lot of older ones. 344 00:24:58,330 --> 00:25:01,917 But there were a few young ones, too. 345 00:25:03,877 --> 00:25:07,339 Cathy was the standout beauty of them all. 346 00:25:08,132 --> 00:25:11,677 Physically beautiful, and her spirit was beautiful. 347 00:25:13,011 --> 00:25:15,264 It was like, "Why would you be a nun?" 348 00:25:25,107 --> 00:25:28,610 She approaches the altar to become the spouse of God, 349 00:25:28,694 --> 00:25:31,864 promising to serve God faithfully until death. 350 00:25:46,795 --> 00:25:50,591 These are calendars called Nuns Having Fun, 351 00:25:50,674 --> 00:25:52,760 and they're absolutely fabulous. 352 00:25:53,719 --> 00:25:56,472 This is called Sisters on the Dock of the Bay, 353 00:25:56,722 --> 00:25:58,682 instead of Sitting on the Dock of the Bay. 354 00:26:00,809 --> 00:26:02,060 Oh. 355 00:26:03,771 --> 00:26:05,731 This is called Mass Transit. 356 00:26:06,273 --> 00:26:07,291 Mass Transit. 357 00:26:08,317 --> 00:26:09,351 Get it? 358 00:26:10,027 --> 00:26:12,404 "I'd yell, too, but I took a vow of silence." 359 00:26:18,076 --> 00:26:21,163 My very first day of school, two nuns came out. 360 00:26:21,246 --> 00:26:23,624 I'd never seen a nun before in my whole life. 361 00:26:23,707 --> 00:26:27,294 Immediately, I thought, that's what I'm gonna be when I grow up. 362 00:26:27,377 --> 00:26:29,046 I had no idea what that meant. 363 00:26:29,296 --> 00:26:31,507 I'd never seen a nun before in my whole life. 364 00:26:31,799 --> 00:26:34,635 I just knew in my heart that's what I wanted to do. 365 00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:40,849 I loved elementary school and I loved the nuns. 366 00:26:42,100 --> 00:26:45,354 They were mentors to us. They were other mothers. 367 00:26:46,063 --> 00:26:51,360 So, I decided that if I wanted to do something special with my life, 368 00:26:51,693 --> 00:26:54,029 I could go into the convent. 369 00:26:54,112 --> 00:26:58,534 So, I decided to enter the School Sisters of Notre Dame. 370 00:26:59,827 --> 00:27:02,746 We had 51 girls that entered. 371 00:27:04,289 --> 00:27:05,958 You're measured for a habit. 372 00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:08,377 And then the habit is sent to you, 373 00:27:09,044 --> 00:27:12,047 and then you go to the motherhouse, and I can see it in my mind. 374 00:27:12,965 --> 00:27:14,466 That day was so happy. 375 00:27:14,550 --> 00:27:17,344 I waited for that day since I was in the first grade. 376 00:27:18,595 --> 00:27:21,932 For me, it was a real honor that they accepted me 377 00:27:22,015 --> 00:27:24,643 and that I could get... I could begin that journey. 378 00:27:25,519 --> 00:27:27,855 There's, like, over 150 people 379 00:27:28,105 --> 00:27:32,109 that were between the ages of 18 and 21 that were there. 380 00:27:32,192 --> 00:27:34,444 It was very, very inspiring. 381 00:27:36,822 --> 00:27:39,154 We became canonical novices, 382 00:27:39,166 --> 00:27:41,785 which meant that we were cloistered. 383 00:27:42,411 --> 00:27:46,498 It's exactly like military boot camp, and it's pretty, uh, rigorous. 384 00:27:47,291 --> 00:27:51,086 I call what we had to go through spiritual boot camp. 385 00:27:52,504 --> 00:27:55,299 We'd get up in the morning at 5:15, 386 00:27:56,258 --> 00:27:57,509 we'd go to Mass, 387 00:27:58,302 --> 00:27:59,636 we'd have meditation. 388 00:28:01,597 --> 00:28:02,931 We'd go to breakfast, 389 00:28:03,265 --> 00:28:05,684 and after breakfast, you would have your chore to do, 390 00:28:05,767 --> 00:28:07,060 whatever you were assigned. 391 00:28:08,020 --> 00:28:09,479 Then we had classes. 392 00:28:10,188 --> 00:28:14,318 And we had to learn how to walk with our hands in our sleeves. 393 00:28:14,401 --> 00:28:19,239 We had great, big, giant sleeves and our eyes mortified, cast down, 394 00:28:19,615 --> 00:28:25,078 and our shoulders back and very erect, and without looking about. 395 00:28:27,372 --> 00:28:33,003 Cathy Cesnik was definitely not one of the dominant postulants 396 00:28:33,086 --> 00:28:34,546 in the beginning days. 397 00:28:36,089 --> 00:28:38,926 She was like a rosebud that gradually opened. 398 00:28:40,344 --> 00:28:41,595 She was kind. 399 00:28:41,929 --> 00:28:44,223 She was very spiritual. 400 00:28:44,306 --> 00:28:46,767 And when I got sick, she was there for me. 401 00:28:48,018 --> 00:28:52,064 We had what was called the Great Silence at night. 402 00:28:52,147 --> 00:28:53,982 We were not able to speak. 403 00:28:54,608 --> 00:28:57,819 And so it was a big deal to speak to somebody. 404 00:28:58,820 --> 00:29:03,825 But Cathy could see that something was wrong with me. 405 00:29:04,660 --> 00:29:07,735 She would just knock on the door and 406 00:29:07,747 --> 00:29:10,749 come in and ask me if I was okay, 407 00:29:11,250 --> 00:29:14,962 and ask me if she could do anything for me, 408 00:29:15,045 --> 00:29:17,744 and she would sit on the edge of the 409 00:29:17,756 --> 00:29:20,467 bed and just hold my hand and say: 410 00:29:20,550 --> 00:29:21,969 "You're gonna be all right." 411 00:29:23,512 --> 00:29:28,308 She was so full of compassion for everyone and everybody. 412 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,728 She had compassion for the Earth, 413 00:29:32,312 --> 00:29:35,148 and I think that's one of the reasons we entered the convent. 414 00:29:42,155 --> 00:29:43,991 Remember, it was the '60s. 415 00:29:44,574 --> 00:29:47,661 There was a complete change... 416 00:29:48,328 --> 00:29:50,122 in our society, 417 00:29:50,414 --> 00:29:51,665 in our culture, 418 00:29:52,249 --> 00:29:54,543 and in the Church. 419 00:29:56,003 --> 00:30:00,674 Vatican II was a big calling together of all leadership 420 00:30:00,757 --> 00:30:03,635 at the Catholic Church at the Vatican by the pope 421 00:30:04,219 --> 00:30:06,888 to look at religious life 422 00:30:06,972 --> 00:30:10,392 and to look at life in the Church and how it can be renewed. 423 00:30:11,143 --> 00:30:13,228 There were a huge amount of changes. 424 00:30:13,312 --> 00:30:16,857 Religious communities decided to change their religious habits 425 00:30:16,940 --> 00:30:20,193 that they had been wearing for hundreds and hundreds of years. 426 00:30:23,071 --> 00:30:26,575 The pope said you've gotta get involved in injustice 427 00:30:27,117 --> 00:30:30,412 to be a part of these great movements, 428 00:30:30,954 --> 00:30:32,372 the civil rights movement, 429 00:30:32,873 --> 00:30:34,499 stopping the Vietnam War. 430 00:30:34,833 --> 00:30:39,504 This was the role of us as religious, 431 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,758 to be a part of changing the world. 432 00:30:54,478 --> 00:30:55,905 We'd be sitting there. All of a 433 00:30:55,917 --> 00:30:57,356 sudden, you'd hear Maskell's voice: 434 00:30:57,439 --> 00:31:00,233 "I'd like to see so-and-so..." And he would say their name 435 00:31:00,317 --> 00:31:03,153 and he would have... "Have them come to my office immediately." 436 00:31:03,945 --> 00:31:07,074 And then he'd click off like... There was no if, ands, buts. 437 00:31:07,157 --> 00:31:08,784 You just sent them right away. 438 00:31:09,659 --> 00:31:12,329 It was almost like he had the teachers afraid of him, too. 439 00:31:13,789 --> 00:31:17,334 I was standing at Joseph Maskell's door and I knocked on it. 440 00:31:17,667 --> 00:31:21,338 And Cathy walked down the corridor behind me, 441 00:31:21,922 --> 00:31:24,800 "and she said," Hi, Jeannie. 442 00:31:24,883 --> 00:31:26,802 I didn't know you needed these services." 443 00:31:27,969 --> 00:31:30,806 And he opened the door, and he looked at me, 444 00:31:31,348 --> 00:31:35,310 and then looked over my head at her, and I went into the room. 445 00:31:35,727 --> 00:31:39,022 And she said, "I didn't know Jeannie needed these services." 446 00:31:41,108 --> 00:31:42,533 And he said, "Oh, yeah, yeah. It's" 447 00:31:42,545 --> 00:31:44,194 been very effective, real effective." 448 00:31:46,780 --> 00:31:47,823 And he closed the door. 449 00:31:49,741 --> 00:31:52,452 She had the courage to not only address me, 450 00:31:52,953 --> 00:31:55,163 but she also addressed him. 451 00:31:57,416 --> 00:31:59,793 It was almost like she was letting him know 452 00:31:59,876 --> 00:32:01,253 that she was also observing. 453 00:32:03,213 --> 00:32:06,925 I think that she was watching a number of us. 454 00:32:10,679 --> 00:32:15,016 His sessions would be supposedly guidance sessions, 455 00:32:15,100 --> 00:32:17,227 'cause he was the counselor for the school. 456 00:32:18,728 --> 00:32:21,356 He started asking personal questions 457 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,318 that were really something you didn't wanna talk about. 458 00:32:25,861 --> 00:32:28,572 And he says, "You're gonna have to be punished for this," 459 00:32:29,156 --> 00:32:30,574 because it was a sin. 460 00:32:31,366 --> 00:32:35,537 Just getting called to his office was pure trauma to me. 461 00:32:36,288 --> 00:32:40,542 I could be anywhere in the building and hear my name overhead. 462 00:32:40,792 --> 00:32:45,005 And I remember, like, one time I was in Spanish class, 463 00:32:45,255 --> 00:32:47,799 and he called my name again, 464 00:32:48,216 --> 00:32:53,305 and I, um... would start crying and telling the teacher: 465 00:32:53,388 --> 00:32:54,848 "I don't wanna go. I don't wanna go." 466 00:32:54,931 --> 00:32:56,641 One teacher, uh, said: 467 00:32:56,725 --> 00:33:00,395 "I know he's weird and all, but you have to go." 468 00:33:02,230 --> 00:33:04,576 When you were called over the 469 00:33:04,588 --> 00:33:07,194 loudspeaker to report to Father Maskell, 470 00:33:07,277 --> 00:33:10,280 a dead silence would come over the classroom, 471 00:33:10,614 --> 00:33:14,910 and other, um, girls would look at you with sad eyes. 472 00:33:15,494 --> 00:33:17,892 And the teachers, they... They would 473 00:33:17,904 --> 00:33:20,582 just, you know, look down or whatever. 474 00:33:20,665 --> 00:33:21,666 It was like... 475 00:33:22,334 --> 00:33:24,794 They knew something was going on. 476 00:33:26,546 --> 00:33:27,923 They had to. 477 00:33:30,300 --> 00:33:31,760 At a certain point... 478 00:33:32,427 --> 00:33:34,679 could've been more into my sophomore year, 479 00:33:35,889 --> 00:33:37,849 he would bring other people into the room. 480 00:33:41,186 --> 00:33:44,481 I would get there and there would be someone sitting in a chair, 481 00:33:45,023 --> 00:33:46,816 and I didn't know who it was. 482 00:33:49,027 --> 00:33:52,781 There were things that Maskell had gotten from me... 483 00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:55,700 about what had happened between my uncle. 484 00:33:56,701 --> 00:33:58,620 One of the things that my uncle would do 485 00:33:59,162 --> 00:34:00,163 is, um... 486 00:34:00,247 --> 00:34:02,186 There was a bar that he would frequent 487 00:34:02,198 --> 00:34:04,251 and he would take me in the back room. 488 00:34:04,334 --> 00:34:06,711 And when he would let people do things to me there, 489 00:34:06,795 --> 00:34:08,171 he would be stand by the door. 490 00:34:08,922 --> 00:34:12,676 And I always thought that it was, uh... Like he was my protector. 491 00:34:14,135 --> 00:34:17,472 So, what started happening was Maskell would stand by the door 492 00:34:17,556 --> 00:34:20,141 while other people were doing things to me. 493 00:34:21,184 --> 00:34:23,728 So, it was as if Maskell became my protector. 494 00:34:28,316 --> 00:34:30,588 One time, it was this person, and he 495 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,821 referred to him as a Brother Bob. 496 00:34:35,115 --> 00:34:38,368 I don't know that Bob was his real name... 497 00:34:39,411 --> 00:34:44,082 or if it was just a pseudonym that Maskell gave him. 498 00:34:46,876 --> 00:34:48,962 Brother Bob was more like a loose cannon. 499 00:34:49,921 --> 00:34:51,965 He was violent. 500 00:34:52,632 --> 00:34:54,301 So out of control. 501 00:34:55,594 --> 00:34:58,096 And he proceeds to rape me from the back... 502 00:34:58,805 --> 00:35:00,807 and isn't pulling out. 503 00:35:01,182 --> 00:35:06,980 And Maskell comes over and he, um, grabs him, and he said: 504 00:35:07,856 --> 00:35:09,274 "You need to be careful." 505 00:35:09,899 --> 00:35:13,153 This is a pup of a whole litter of pups. 506 00:35:13,820 --> 00:35:14,821 "We can't have that." 507 00:35:16,573 --> 00:35:19,784 So, he's very aware that my parents are very fertile 508 00:35:19,868 --> 00:35:21,578 and there was a lot of kids. 509 00:35:22,329 --> 00:35:26,583 And so I understand now what he's referenced to. 510 00:35:38,803 --> 00:35:40,891 I see myself leaving the room and I 511 00:35:40,903 --> 00:35:43,183 wonder if they just sat and laughed. 512 00:35:47,729 --> 00:35:51,149 I talked to Sister Cathy after school one day 513 00:35:51,232 --> 00:35:53,401 when we were playing guitar. 514 00:35:54,694 --> 00:36:00,492 I told her that Father Maskell was not very, um... 515 00:36:02,077 --> 00:36:03,136 religious. 516 00:36:03,662 --> 00:36:05,038 I think that's how I put it. 517 00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:07,415 And she asked me, "What do you mean?" 518 00:36:07,832 --> 00:36:11,211 And I told her that, um... 519 00:36:12,462 --> 00:36:16,007 he gets a little physical in his office. 520 00:36:16,716 --> 00:36:23,223 She acted like she didn't know, but yet her face said she did know. 521 00:36:26,768 --> 00:36:29,409 Joseph Maskell also was the 522 00:36:29,421 --> 00:36:32,148 chaplain for the police department, 523 00:36:32,607 --> 00:36:34,359 for the Air National Guard, 524 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,404 for Maryland State Police. 525 00:36:38,488 --> 00:36:43,034 Maskell was covered because his brother, Tommy, 526 00:36:43,118 --> 00:36:45,453 was a respected Baltimore city policeman. 527 00:36:46,037 --> 00:36:48,790 And just over the city county line, 528 00:36:48,873 --> 00:36:52,419 he was chaplain for the Baltimore County Police, 529 00:36:52,502 --> 00:36:55,630 and he was close friends with several of the police. 530 00:36:56,131 --> 00:36:59,092 Maskell had access to a lot of protection, 531 00:36:59,718 --> 00:37:04,764 and he also could maybe provide men with what they wanted. 532 00:37:10,311 --> 00:37:12,897 One of the persons who was standing in the room one time 533 00:37:12,981 --> 00:37:15,150 was a policeman in full uniform. 534 00:37:15,483 --> 00:37:18,653 Okay? If you can imagine having to do something to a policeman, 535 00:37:18,737 --> 00:37:20,071 your father is a policeman. 536 00:37:21,448 --> 00:37:25,618 I remember them walking in through a back door 537 00:37:26,035 --> 00:37:28,371 and me laying on the black couch. 538 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:34,043 And I could see the shirt and pants of the officer 539 00:37:34,544 --> 00:37:37,380 with the very bright light coming in the back. 540 00:37:37,464 --> 00:37:40,842 And that's when I heard the police officer say: 541 00:37:40,925 --> 00:37:44,471 "I don't want to," and Maskell encouraging him. 542 00:37:48,099 --> 00:37:50,977 I was sitting across the table from him... 543 00:37:51,352 --> 00:37:53,354 and he had a gun. 544 00:37:57,108 --> 00:37:59,611 And he's taking the bullets out one by one. 545 00:38:01,154 --> 00:38:04,699 And he's saying that if my father 546 00:38:05,241 --> 00:38:08,411 ever found out that I was whoring around... 547 00:38:08,953 --> 00:38:11,915 And then he took the gun, he put it up to my... my temple, 548 00:38:12,624 --> 00:38:17,003 and he pulled the trigger, and he said he will do the same thing, 549 00:38:17,086 --> 00:38:18,630 but he'll keep the bullets in. 550 00:38:19,923 --> 00:38:21,132 I was terrified. 551 00:38:23,343 --> 00:38:25,303 He used my father against me a lot. 552 00:38:25,637 --> 00:38:28,473 My father was a policeman, my father carried a gun every day. 553 00:38:29,808 --> 00:38:35,230 He was very aware of the families that were in the school. 554 00:38:38,399 --> 00:38:39,692 In my case... 555 00:38:40,443 --> 00:38:45,740 there was a lot of abuse in my life prior to meeting Father Maskell. 556 00:38:47,951 --> 00:38:50,787 He would find out what happened in your life, 557 00:38:51,287 --> 00:38:54,249 find out your personal life and what... 558 00:38:55,959 --> 00:38:57,293 what was going on... 559 00:38:59,212 --> 00:39:01,089 and then he would use it against you. 560 00:39:02,674 --> 00:39:05,802 Did I get chosen by him 561 00:39:06,302 --> 00:39:10,390 because he knew I had been previously abused 562 00:39:10,473 --> 00:39:14,352 and the relationship with my mother and I was broken, 563 00:39:14,435 --> 00:39:16,354 I would be easier prey? 564 00:39:16,437 --> 00:39:20,608 And, you know, I thought about that in nursing school years later. 565 00:39:24,445 --> 00:39:27,866 I entered Keough in 1967, 566 00:39:28,449 --> 00:39:30,660 and I was doing exceptionally well at school. 567 00:39:31,369 --> 00:39:34,080 My father was an old-fashioned man 568 00:39:34,163 --> 00:39:37,125 who believed that girls really shouldn't go to college. 569 00:39:37,208 --> 00:39:40,003 And so, even though I was getting really good grades 570 00:39:40,086 --> 00:39:42,130 in, um, academic subjects, 571 00:39:42,213 --> 00:39:45,550 he wanted me to take shorthand and business courses as well. 572 00:39:46,009 --> 00:39:47,010 So, I did that. 573 00:39:47,093 --> 00:39:53,391 And in my junior year, I suddenly got a call from the school office 574 00:39:53,474 --> 00:39:55,101 to go see Father Maskell. 575 00:39:55,894 --> 00:39:59,856 And he told me that he needed someone he could trust, 576 00:40:00,356 --> 00:40:03,384 someone that would keep absolute 577 00:40:03,396 --> 00:40:07,196 confidentiality about my classmates... 578 00:40:08,364 --> 00:40:13,870 that would be typing notes on their psychological counseling, 579 00:40:13,953 --> 00:40:20,668 and that I could get out of... tests, classes, you name it. 580 00:40:20,752 --> 00:40:22,462 I jumped at the chance. 581 00:40:22,545 --> 00:40:23,838 I already had two jobs. 582 00:40:24,422 --> 00:40:28,676 I wanted a car just so badly and I was saving up for that. 583 00:40:31,429 --> 00:40:34,390 I would just suddenly get a call over the loudspeaker: 584 00:40:34,474 --> 00:40:38,686 "Lil Hughes, report to Father Maskell's office immediately." 585 00:40:39,187 --> 00:40:40,647 You know, and there I would go. 586 00:40:44,108 --> 00:40:48,404 He would always give me a Coke in a... a paper cup. 587 00:40:54,369 --> 00:40:59,207 So much of what I was typing was almost all sexual. 588 00:41:00,249 --> 00:41:03,628 It involved incest, it involved bestiality, 589 00:41:03,711 --> 00:41:08,841 it involved girls having group sex, venereal disease, on and on. 590 00:41:09,175 --> 00:41:12,929 And these are people that I was sitting right next to in class. 591 00:41:15,181 --> 00:41:21,145 And so many of the records that I did type were about him 592 00:41:21,229 --> 00:41:25,608 helping the classmate by taking them to a gynecologist. 593 00:41:26,526 --> 00:41:28,528 I must've been so totally naive, 594 00:41:28,611 --> 00:41:31,155 because it didn't dawn on me that this was something 595 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,199 that was totally inappropriate. 596 00:41:34,867 --> 00:41:40,540 At the time, I just was taken in by his flattery, his attention, 597 00:41:41,082 --> 00:41:45,294 and the fact that I was being, uh, made to feel very important 598 00:41:45,378 --> 00:41:47,547 by someone who was very important in the school. 599 00:41:55,221 --> 00:41:58,558 Joseph Maskell, he earned a master's degree 600 00:41:58,641 --> 00:42:02,895 in school psychology from Towson State University. 601 00:42:04,313 --> 00:42:05,565 At some point after that, 602 00:42:05,648 --> 00:42:09,861 he went to Hopkins for a counseling certificate, 603 00:42:09,944 --> 00:42:11,571 they called it, from Johns Hopkins. 604 00:42:12,321 --> 00:42:15,491 Having the psychology certification gave 605 00:42:15,503 --> 00:42:18,453 him access to all these young people. 606 00:42:20,872 --> 00:42:23,499 Maskell was heavy into psychology. 607 00:42:24,083 --> 00:42:27,879 He knew how to manipulate people, I think, from that. 608 00:42:27,962 --> 00:42:30,381 And I forgot to tell you about Marnie. 609 00:42:36,054 --> 00:42:40,099 Marnie was a movie that was part of the religion class curriculum. 610 00:42:43,102 --> 00:42:45,980 If it had anything to do with religion, I don't know. 611 00:42:46,481 --> 00:42:50,777 The whole point of it was, she had repressed memories. 612 00:42:50,860 --> 00:42:52,904 And one of them in the white suits. 613 00:42:52,987 --> 00:42:54,781 - Shut up, Marnie. - No. 614 00:42:54,864 --> 00:42:56,115 Remember, Marnie. 615 00:42:56,199 --> 00:43:00,661 Sean Connery grew to love her despite her problems. 616 00:43:00,745 --> 00:43:03,581 - What happened to you? - Happened? Nothing. 617 00:43:03,664 --> 00:43:04,874 Nothing happened to me. 618 00:43:05,249 --> 00:43:07,585 I just never wanted anybody to touch me. 619 00:43:08,795 --> 00:43:10,588 You ever tried to talk about it? 620 00:43:10,671 --> 00:43:12,423 To a doctor or somebody who could help you? 621 00:43:13,049 --> 00:43:17,553 It was suggestive, you know, that maybe I have... things 622 00:43:17,637 --> 00:43:20,276 that I should talk to a counselor about 623 00:43:20,288 --> 00:43:22,600 so I don't turn out like Marnie. 624 00:43:23,142 --> 00:43:28,356 And eventually, he helped solve what had happened in her childhood 625 00:43:28,439 --> 00:43:29,816 that she had repressed. 626 00:43:29,899 --> 00:43:33,402 I won't let anything bad happen to you. You're all right. 627 00:43:33,486 --> 00:43:35,161 And then it all came out and... 628 00:43:35,173 --> 00:43:36,948 "Do you think I'm gonna be all right?" 629 00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:40,618 "Yes, Marnie, I think you're gonna be all right now. 630 00:43:40,952 --> 00:43:42,078 Yes, you are." 631 00:43:43,538 --> 00:43:46,791 And then, Maskell was our school psychologist, 632 00:43:46,874 --> 00:43:51,504 how convenient that he picked that movie for us to go and watch. 633 00:43:52,463 --> 00:43:54,298 He was a psychologist. 634 00:43:54,841 --> 00:43:58,219 He would hypnotize me sometimes. 635 00:43:58,302 --> 00:44:01,556 Sometimes it was with a pocket watch he had. 636 00:44:02,056 --> 00:44:06,185 There are blocks of time when I have no idea what happened. 637 00:44:08,563 --> 00:44:11,440 He did do psychological tests on me. 638 00:44:11,524 --> 00:44:12,942 He did Rorschach tests. 639 00:44:13,442 --> 00:44:16,696 Every ink blot was some kind of sexual thing. 640 00:44:18,447 --> 00:44:19,782 He did hypnotize me. 641 00:44:20,324 --> 00:44:24,120 He... But he presented it more as a challenge, you know, 642 00:44:24,203 --> 00:44:26,119 and with me saying, "Oh, you can't," 643 00:44:26,131 --> 00:44:28,166 and he's like, "Oh, let's just see." 644 00:44:29,542 --> 00:44:32,211 I think there was something in the Coke. 645 00:44:34,213 --> 00:44:36,883 I've never been certain of what happened. 646 00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:40,636 There's so many gaps in my memory 647 00:44:40,970 --> 00:44:45,433 of being with him, and I only have fragments. 648 00:44:58,070 --> 00:45:00,865 It was my... end of my sophomore year, 649 00:45:00,948 --> 00:45:02,325 so the summer was starting. 650 00:45:03,284 --> 00:45:06,287 I had gone back to the classroom 651 00:45:06,370 --> 00:45:08,539 to get a book that I thought I had left there. 652 00:45:09,081 --> 00:45:12,710 And Cathy was in the front of the class and she started just, kind of 653 00:45:12,793 --> 00:45:14,837 light conversation with me, you know, how... 654 00:45:14,921 --> 00:45:17,757 How was I doing, what was going on, how did I like Keough? 655 00:45:18,925 --> 00:45:23,012 And I said I didn't really like it. 656 00:45:24,555 --> 00:45:26,265 And Cathy said: 657 00:45:26,849 --> 00:45:29,477 "Oh, no. You know, is there something in particular?" 658 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,605 And... I said, "Yeah. You know, there's different things," 659 00:45:32,688 --> 00:45:35,858 but not really wanting to talk about it. 660 00:45:36,817 --> 00:45:37,818 She said, "Okay." 661 00:45:37,902 --> 00:45:42,531 She said, "Well, how about if I just ask and you shake your head?" 662 00:45:44,367 --> 00:45:45,701 And I was like, "Okay." 663 00:45:48,329 --> 00:45:52,959 The last time that I was called to his office, 664 00:45:53,250 --> 00:45:54,919 it was after school, 665 00:45:55,461 --> 00:45:59,048 and I was in the classroom with Sister Cathy 666 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:01,342 and my sister was with me. 667 00:46:03,386 --> 00:46:08,099 Father Maskell came on the PA and asked for me to come down the hall. 668 00:46:09,767 --> 00:46:14,438 And I looked over at Sister Cathy, and Sister Cathy looked at me. 669 00:46:14,522 --> 00:46:17,441 I know that it was a look of panic on my face. 670 00:46:18,192 --> 00:46:22,947 And Sister Cathy told him that I was leaving to go home 671 00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:24,365 because it was after school. 672 00:46:24,949 --> 00:46:31,372 My sister told me later on that she saw a flicker of acknowledgement 673 00:46:31,455 --> 00:46:33,165 between me and Sister Cathy. 674 00:46:33,916 --> 00:46:36,711 And that's when she knew that Sister Cathy and I 675 00:46:37,086 --> 00:46:39,130 knew something about Father Maskell. 676 00:46:41,424 --> 00:46:43,968 So, she asked me... 677 00:46:44,218 --> 00:46:47,388 was anyone making me do something that I didn't wanna do. 678 00:46:49,390 --> 00:46:52,601 And I shook my head. I remember looking away, 679 00:46:52,685 --> 00:46:57,815 and I shook my head, and she... She said, um... 680 00:47:00,651 --> 00:47:02,445 She said, "Is it...? Is it the priest?" 681 00:47:03,696 --> 00:47:07,158 And I looked up at her and I shook my head. 682 00:47:07,742 --> 00:47:10,494 And she said, "Oh, dear God." 683 00:47:10,578 --> 00:47:11,912 I thought as much." 684 00:47:11,996 --> 00:47:14,206 And she then hugged me. 685 00:47:15,499 --> 00:47:18,919 "And she said," I'm gonna take care of this. 686 00:47:19,545 --> 00:47:21,047 I want you to go home 687 00:47:21,130 --> 00:47:23,466 "and I want you to have a wonderful summer." 688 00:47:25,217 --> 00:47:27,344 And I told Cathy, "Okay." 689 00:47:28,471 --> 00:47:29,513 And I left. 690 00:47:40,524 --> 00:47:42,735 Like soap bubbles are we... 691 00:47:43,736 --> 00:47:46,530 all echoing in an elastic chamber... 692 00:47:48,282 --> 00:47:51,035 always the fear of exploding to air. 693 00:47:52,953 --> 00:47:54,163 Bubbles touch. 694 00:47:54,747 --> 00:47:56,415 And, true, they break... 695 00:47:58,125 --> 00:48:02,838 but some are coupled in a rainbowed joining and float, 696 00:48:03,422 --> 00:48:07,426 and are, and burst together. 697 00:48:10,429 --> 00:48:12,515 It is dedicated to Gerry. 698 00:48:14,058 --> 00:48:15,309 We were soul mates. 699 00:48:16,936 --> 00:48:18,896 I was her best friend, she was mine. 700 00:48:20,898 --> 00:48:26,529 We first got acquainted in the summer of '66. 701 00:48:27,446 --> 00:48:32,243 We were corresponding in letters by July of that summer. 702 00:48:32,743 --> 00:48:36,372 And I would say that we discovered a real genuine love 703 00:48:36,455 --> 00:48:37,748 for each other at that time. 704 00:48:39,583 --> 00:48:43,587 There were very few people who knew what our relationship was. 705 00:48:45,297 --> 00:48:48,342 There was no going out somewhere to dinner or anything like that. 706 00:48:48,425 --> 00:48:49,443 We couldn't do that. 707 00:48:51,679 --> 00:48:54,056 She was facing a crossroads in her life... 708 00:48:54,598 --> 00:49:00,062 because she was coming up on the expiration of her temporary vows. 709 00:49:01,063 --> 00:49:04,942 The... The nuns took vows for X number of years, 710 00:49:05,818 --> 00:49:08,571 but then they reached the point where they would shift 711 00:49:08,654 --> 00:49:11,115 taking temporary vows to take final vows, 712 00:49:11,657 --> 00:49:14,451 and she was facing that. 713 00:49:15,995 --> 00:49:19,123 I was still a year away from being ordained. 714 00:49:20,374 --> 00:49:24,920 We're sitting next to each other outside Keough, it was a warm day. 715 00:49:28,465 --> 00:49:30,092 And we're sitting side by side. 716 00:49:31,260 --> 00:49:32,428 And I said to her: 717 00:49:33,637 --> 00:49:35,456 "I feel like I'm about to jump off a 718 00:49:35,468 --> 00:49:37,349 cliff, but I'm gonna do it anyway." 719 00:49:39,518 --> 00:49:42,229 You're facing a decision to go take final vows. 720 00:49:42,313 --> 00:49:45,399 A year from now, I will face a decision to become a priest. 721 00:49:46,942 --> 00:49:50,112 "And I'm gonna say no to both and ask you to be my wife." 722 00:49:51,614 --> 00:49:52,907 And she turned me down. 723 00:49:53,490 --> 00:49:54,575 She said, "No." 724 00:49:55,159 --> 00:49:58,621 You're meant to be a priest, I'm meant to be a nun, so we'll go on." 725 00:50:02,833 --> 00:50:05,961 In spring of 1969... 726 00:50:06,962 --> 00:50:10,132 Sister Cathy was still teaching English at Keough. 727 00:50:10,466 --> 00:50:12,343 Then the summer came and we were off. 728 00:50:12,885 --> 00:50:16,931 And when I came back in the fall of 1969 to start the senior year, 729 00:50:17,181 --> 00:50:19,808 she was not there and she was no longer on the faculty. 730 00:50:20,392 --> 00:50:22,716 And it was not real clear to us what 731 00:50:22,728 --> 00:50:25,064 happened to her or where she went. 732 00:50:29,235 --> 00:50:30,861 School started up again. 733 00:50:31,946 --> 00:50:36,325 Cathy wasn't there, and Maskell was. 734 00:50:37,618 --> 00:50:40,454 At one point, he called me to the office. 735 00:50:41,205 --> 00:50:43,624 It was the first time that I was called to the office 736 00:50:43,707 --> 00:50:46,168 since I was back in... in my junior year. 737 00:50:46,252 --> 00:50:49,505 He was upset because, uh, he... 738 00:50:49,588 --> 00:50:51,413 Someone approached him during summer and 739 00:50:51,425 --> 00:50:53,217 said that they had heard that he was... 740 00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:56,595 Uh, he was, um... hurting the girls. 741 00:50:56,679 --> 00:50:59,598 He was making the girls do something they didn't wanna do. 742 00:50:59,807 --> 00:51:03,143 And I'm looking at the floor, you know, and he's, like: 743 00:51:03,227 --> 00:51:04,436 "That wasn't you, was it? 744 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,605 You weren't saying that about me, were you?" 745 00:51:06,689 --> 00:51:10,317 And I looked up at him and it was like, "No, no, no, no," you know. 746 00:51:10,609 --> 00:51:12,820 And he said, "Wow," he said, "I hope not." 747 00:51:12,903 --> 00:51:15,281 He said, um, "I think we need to reacquaint you" 748 00:51:15,364 --> 00:51:17,574 with who the real whore is in this room." 749 00:51:19,034 --> 00:51:20,077 He was done, he said: 750 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,538 "You get yourself together and get out of here. 751 00:51:23,372 --> 00:51:26,500 You just remember who's got the whoring mouth in this room." 752 00:51:29,336 --> 00:51:30,587 And I left the room. 753 00:51:33,048 --> 00:51:35,134 And Cathy was nowhere to be found. 754 00:51:38,095 --> 00:51:41,348 Cathy's dilemma was that we are not in touch 755 00:51:41,890 --> 00:51:44,226 with where these girls are coming from. 756 00:51:44,310 --> 00:51:48,105 We don't know what it's like to be living in the world. 757 00:51:48,188 --> 00:51:51,442 We're protected behind this convent thing, 758 00:51:52,026 --> 00:51:53,734 which limits our understanding of 759 00:51:53,746 --> 00:51:55,779 what a teenage girl is going through. 760 00:51:58,991 --> 00:52:02,578 She had gotten permission from her local superiors 761 00:52:02,661 --> 00:52:06,623 to try living outside the convent in an apartment in Catonsville 762 00:52:06,707 --> 00:52:08,292 with Sister Russell. 763 00:52:11,628 --> 00:52:16,925 This is what she looked like when she left Keough 764 00:52:17,009 --> 00:52:19,845 to go teach in a public school while remaining a nun. 765 00:52:21,513 --> 00:52:26,435 Cathy Cesnik and Russell Phillips were trying this experiment. 766 00:52:27,519 --> 00:52:31,732 I understood that Mother Maurice gave them permission 767 00:52:32,066 --> 00:52:36,528 to experiment with teaching in public high school 768 00:52:36,612 --> 00:52:40,157 and being nuns out in the regular world. 769 00:52:41,325 --> 00:52:46,872 I was surprised that they were the ones engaging in this. 770 00:52:47,873 --> 00:52:52,836 They were compliant nuns following the rules all the time. 771 00:52:57,883 --> 00:53:01,428 Two days before Sister Cathy disappeared, 772 00:53:01,970 --> 00:53:04,973 a friend and I went to her apartment, casually, 773 00:53:05,057 --> 00:53:06,141 for a visit... 774 00:53:07,434 --> 00:53:10,062 and we talked shortly. 775 00:53:10,145 --> 00:53:11,563 We didn't talk in-depth 776 00:53:11,647 --> 00:53:14,108 because my friend didn't know what was going on. 777 00:53:14,692 --> 00:53:18,904 Sister Cathy asked me how things were, and I knew what she meant. 778 00:53:19,446 --> 00:53:22,783 I was... hesitant to answer. 779 00:53:24,201 --> 00:53:26,787 And she says, "It'll be taken care of, don't worry." 780 00:53:27,871 --> 00:53:32,000 We know of two women, Jean and Kathy Hobeck, 781 00:53:32,084 --> 00:53:36,130 who shared with Cathy that they were being abused 782 00:53:36,213 --> 00:53:37,673 by Joseph Maskell. 783 00:53:38,590 --> 00:53:42,261 We also know now that there is a third woman 784 00:53:42,344 --> 00:53:45,848 who, in fact, was in Sister Cathy's apartment 785 00:53:46,515 --> 00:53:48,934 the night before Cathy disappeared. 786 00:53:51,854 --> 00:53:57,234 She and her boyfriend arrived to visit the two sisters, 787 00:53:57,317 --> 00:53:58,527 Cathy and Russell, 788 00:53:59,027 --> 00:54:02,823 and she was sharing with Cathy about the abuse. 789 00:54:03,615 --> 00:54:07,911 And Joseph Maskell and Father Neil Magnus 790 00:54:08,162 --> 00:54:10,706 came into the apartment without knocking. 791 00:54:11,623 --> 00:54:15,836 I asked her specifically what expressions were on their faces, 792 00:54:16,128 --> 00:54:20,924 and she said Maskell was furious, Magnus looked dumb. 793 00:54:21,425 --> 00:54:25,304 Sister Cathy sent her out, and her boyfriend out of the apartment. 794 00:54:26,430 --> 00:54:29,349 The next day, when she went to school, 795 00:54:30,142 --> 00:54:33,228 he called her into his office and said: 796 00:54:34,062 --> 00:54:39,818 "If you say anything, I'll kill both of you and your families." 797 00:54:40,986 --> 00:54:42,404 She never said anything. 798 00:54:42,488 --> 00:54:45,991 Later that day is when Cathy disappeared. 799 00:54:46,992 --> 00:54:50,579 This woman, who has chosen to remain anonymous, 800 00:54:50,662 --> 00:54:53,582 has lived with fear all her life. 801 00:55:05,135 --> 00:55:07,262 Cathy and I were supposed to get together 802 00:55:08,263 --> 00:55:10,224 the day after she was actually killed. 803 00:55:13,101 --> 00:55:16,271 She said there was something serious she wanted to talk to me about. 804 00:55:18,607 --> 00:55:22,444 I thought she might... Wanted to reopen the question 805 00:55:22,528 --> 00:55:24,821 of whether or not we should leave and get married. 806 00:55:26,365 --> 00:55:30,953 But I look back now and say, if at that time she was aware... 807 00:55:32,162 --> 00:55:36,208 of priests sexually abusing the girls at Archbishop Keough, 808 00:55:37,042 --> 00:55:39,211 then maybe that's what she wanted to talk about. 809 00:55:40,254 --> 00:55:42,756 Would've been a hell of a conversation, I'll tell you. 810 00:55:44,174 --> 00:55:45,175 But it never happened. 811 00:55:50,264 --> 00:55:52,683 When I was called to the room, it was after school... 812 00:55:53,225 --> 00:55:54,601 and he was frantic. 813 00:55:55,477 --> 00:55:57,729 He said, "I know you're close with Sister Cathy..." 814 00:55:57,813 --> 00:56:00,732 And I just... I wanted to let you know that she's missing." 815 00:56:00,816 --> 00:56:02,651 And he said, "But I know where she is." 816 00:56:02,985 --> 00:56:04,646 And I was like, "What do you mean" 817 00:56:04,658 --> 00:56:06,196 you know...? You know where she is?" 818 00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,032 He said, "I know where she is. Want me to take you to her?" 819 00:56:09,283 --> 00:56:10,576 And I was like, "Yes." 820 00:56:11,868 --> 00:56:13,745 We leave his room. 821 00:56:13,829 --> 00:56:16,790 I remember walking through the corridor of the school... 822 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,043 and we go out, and we get in a car. 823 00:56:21,420 --> 00:56:25,299 There's two unbelievable emotions that are going on at the same time. 824 00:56:25,882 --> 00:56:28,635 One was total shock. "What do you mean she's missing?" 825 00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,637 Like, it hit me like a... Like, in the stomach. 826 00:56:32,389 --> 00:56:35,309 And the other was, he knew where she was, relief. 827 00:56:35,934 --> 00:56:37,603 And I just knew I needed to see her. 828 00:56:40,314 --> 00:56:44,568 We pull up into this kind of a... It was a bit like a barren area. 829 00:56:49,615 --> 00:56:52,743 There was grass, and dirt, and, um... 830 00:56:52,826 --> 00:56:54,786 And I'm thinking, "What is she doing here?" 831 00:56:55,370 --> 00:56:56,496 And I'm following him. 832 00:56:57,664 --> 00:56:59,791 And he moved over... 833 00:57:01,793 --> 00:57:04,379 and there's a clump on the ground and I knew it was her. 834 00:57:09,468 --> 00:57:12,095 Before I knew it, I was kneeling down next to her. 835 00:57:12,429 --> 00:57:14,473 And there were maggots in her face. 836 00:57:14,723 --> 00:57:18,060 And I was wiping her face and just saying: 837 00:57:18,143 --> 00:57:20,896 "Please help me. Please help me. Please help me. Please help me." 838 00:57:23,941 --> 00:57:25,984 And I'm, like, looking at my hands... 839 00:57:29,029 --> 00:57:30,948 and he came down real close... 840 00:57:34,242 --> 00:57:35,260 and he said: 841 00:57:38,871 --> 00:57:42,083 "Do you see what happens when you say bad things about people?" 842 00:57:48,261 --> 00:57:53,261 Synced and corrected by PopcornAWH - www.addic7ed.com -