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{\an8}Industrial Light and Magic
is such a remarkable name for a company
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and a place that's going to make these
visual effects, because it says it all.
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I never wanted to
leave that place,
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because they understood how to make magic
and how to have fun at the same time.
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What is possible
now in film and TV
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is in large part because
of risks George Lucas took
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and ideas he had that may have
existed elsewhere in other times,
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but he was the one who
actually put them into effect.
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The company was founded on
this idea of using technology
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to let us do things that had
never been done before...
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to create striking
and memorable imagery.
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We were the only visual effects house
in the world for six or seven years.
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There really weren't
visual effects until then.
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There were optical effects, and
there were sort of practical effects.
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When I saw Star Wars...
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Yee-hoo!
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...it took everything to another
level on such a massive scale.
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They said, "Oh,
well, it's just for space movies."
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I said, "No, it's not.
It's for any movie."
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The vibe at ILM,
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it's this sort of intersection of
loosey-goosey intellectualism...
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Mind the step, sir.
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...and a kind of
enough angsty need
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that created a certain kind
of energy of innovation.
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ILM was the place.
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I mean, there was just
no discussion about it.
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They were kind of rebels.
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They were outliers.
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They were geniuses.
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I was so in awe of them, I
thought I could never afford them
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and they wouldn't work with a
little pissant filmmaker like me.
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I had a kind of religious
experience with ILM.
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I suddenly saw that everything
was going to change.
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It was going to change
everything for all of us...
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...and for audiences everywhere.
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And we were never
going to go back.
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For years, there were
a number of company meetings
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where George would
address the whole company.
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Actually, in this very room.
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{\an8}And inevitably,
somebody would ask,
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{\an8}"Hey, are you going to do
more Star Wars movies?"
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{\an8}And his answer was always,
"Oh, I'm thinking about it,
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"but, you know, I don't have
anything to announce yet."
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{\an8}A lot of the people who
had been here a long time
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{\an8}were very desirous of working
on more Star Wars movies.
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And frankly, most of the people
that had come through the door since
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had grown up on those movies.
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And the idea of getting to work
with George on a Star Wars movie
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was kind of what they lived for.
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{\an8}I remember very well the day we
were called into C Screening Room.
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And we were given the impression
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that this was a meeting that
we did not want to miss.
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And George was there.
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- On or off?
- It's on.
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All of us were in the same
space at the same time
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and heard him say that he wanted
to make more Star Wars movies.
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And to hear him say that
was incredibly exciting.
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And almost a little frightening.
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Come on.
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The prequels, I
hadn't written them yet.
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But I couldn't write them
unless I knew what I could do.
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{\an8}That's the one thing
about Star Wars,
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{\an8}is I always wrote for the
technology I had available to me.
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Episodes IV, V, and VI
were using old technology.
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And the analog technology wouldn't
allow us to do so many things.
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We pushed that as far as we
possibly could here at ILM.
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But I knew the other stuff I wanted
to do was much more complicated.
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{\an8}George Lucas was always
forward-thinking.
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He was always mentioning
how he wasn't satisfied
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with one bit of technology or another
and how he wanted to see it change.
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And if I were to go on
and do the next three,
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that I needed digital
technology for.
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I knew the
digital technology
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was going to be ultimately the
most important thing in movies.
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And we spent over ten years
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and lots of money to
develop digital technology,
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'cause it didn't exist.
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He'd look at things and go,
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"There must be a way we can use
computers to do editorial better,
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"there must be a way we can use
computers to do audio better,
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"and we must be able to use
them to do visual effects
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"in a way that's
cleaner and better
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"and more versatile than we
can, you know, do on the stage
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"and with traditional
techniques."
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{\an8}You start drawing dotted lines
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{\an8}back to everything that came
out of innovations that he made.
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You know, everybody
knows about Pixar,
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but there's, like,
EditDroid and Pro Tools.
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We had somebody who was in charge
of creating digital sounds.
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We started building these
digital editing systems.
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{\an8}I remember the EditDroid
that George created.
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It's the first computer
editing system.
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It was like a séance.
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You had this table with a
screen and no film or anything,
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and all of a sudden, the
image would appear, you know?
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{\an8}It was sort of magical.
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{\an8}Change is always very difficult.
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{\an8}So we started the
Computer Division.
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{\an8}Initially, we did not have
nearly enough compute power
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{\an8}to make images that
were good enough.
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But as we got closer...
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...we began to produce something
that did have an impact.
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When I saw that, I felt
like I had seen the future.
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It was a great time being here
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as the digital side of
the world was growing up.
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{\an8}The digital work was coming
in and allowing us to do stuff
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that was impossible before, or
very difficult to do before.
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Everybody at the company knew George was
moving towards making these prequels.
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He talked about it so much,
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and he was exploring digital
technology while he was doing that
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and trying new things out.
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{\an8}I was ready for CG as
soon as we could do it.
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When George put the department in here,
I thought this has got to be the future.
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And the momentum in that
direction became very strong.
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You think about the impact
Jurassic Park had on people.
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{\an8}They couldn't fathom how what
they were seeing was done.
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It's... It's a dinosaur.
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Especially in the
wake of Jurassic Park.
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Um, all of the other approaches
started to be looked upon
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with more of a jaundiced eye.
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Like, well, yeah,
optical is okay,
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but wouldn't the shots look
better if we did them in digital?
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At that point I'd say to clients, "Well,
yeah, but it's going to cost more."
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"Yeah, it'll be better, right?"
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And you'd go,
"Well, I don't know.
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"I think we can do a pretty
good job with these techniques."
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But digital effects took on a momentum
that you really just couldn't stop.
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I was surprised that the
digital revolution hit so quickly.
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And this is like three or six
months after Jurassic came out.
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I had many colleagues,
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people who had been great contributors
to the company for a long time,
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that were, you know, on the
cusp of being out of work.
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That just traveled
like a ripple through ILM.
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{\an8}You know, I just wasn't
cut out for CG at all.
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There was so much difference between
me manipulating things with my hands.
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I was always kind
of a materials guy.
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I wouldn't say that the model
shop and the stage folks and so forth
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had animosity or anything
towards the digital people.
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They kind of saw what
it was and respected it.
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I think, though, they couldn't
help but see their world shrinking
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as that was happening.
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So, you know, it was a
wistful time at best, I'd say.
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But then all
of a sudden, it was upon us.
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{\an8}And you could feel it coming
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{\an8}because of the hiring wave that
was happening in computer graphics.
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The Jurassic Park crew, who had
pulled off this amazing feat
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and changed the
history of filmmaking,
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were then almost lock, stock
and barrel the entire crew,
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plus new people,
went on to Casper.
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Morning.
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Oh, no, no. Please don't scream.
I promise I won't hurt you.
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{\an8}To my knowledge, I don't think
there'd been a key character
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{\an8}that was fully animated that ran
throughout a film until that time.
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And it was bedeviling.
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How would you do that? I mean,
how would you film it on the set?
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How would you coordinate
it in the editing process
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so you could ultimately
put an animated character
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where a surrogate was
acting the part out?
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Let's start with real for her.
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I was the lead
supervisor to begin with.
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And after a while, Dennis
came on board, too, to help,
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because it was a monster of
a show to try and deal with.
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There were like
two or three hundred shots,
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and they were all
performance-based, you know?
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And you had to be able
to read his expressions,
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and then the other characters
would go around him.
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So it was more like making an
animated film, a Disney film.
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And that's something
that ILM hadn't done.
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And we had a number of animators in there
that really couldn't quite pull it off.
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George could certainly see that
the technology was pretty close
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to being able to do the types of
things he was imagining for Episode I.
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And we had a number
of people that came in
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to the computer graphics
department and so forth
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that were able to
help move that along
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and kind of help
realize George's dream
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of wanting to be able
to do digital effects.
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{\an8}- Welcome.
- Hi, Joe.
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The computer graphics
department at ILM...
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I started in October of '93,
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was about 45 people.
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And I think I was animator
number nine they hired.
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There were six
animators on Jurassic.
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So it was still early days.
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Um, but... it was
beyond intimidating.
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The legends were there.
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Ken Ralston was there,
and Dennis was there.
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There were people that I knew their names
and they were in the hallway, and I...
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I had the worst case of impostor
syndrome for about six months.
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How had I fluked
myself into this place?
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Rob Coleman, in particular,
is a real interesting guy,
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because he came in as a
very talented animator,
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but his leadership
skills just stood out
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and he could run a crew
with great efficiency,
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and with great empathy and
get great work out of people.
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And it really was
important on Casper.
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We had to hire a bunch
of traditional animators
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because there weren't enough CG
animators in the world at that point.
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And Rob really trained them up to be
able to do the work in those shows.
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If it's a
digital character,
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I'm putting all the
effort into making sure
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it's a living, breathing,
emoting character.
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So the first huge breakthrough
for me was Dragonheart.
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Dragonheart was a very challenging
show for ILM to do at the time.
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The technological advance on that film
which was also groundbreaking for us
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was a piece of software called
Caricature, which we shortened to Cari.
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And what that allowed us to do
was to have a high-resolution face
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that was really interactive.
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We could dial in facial shapes.
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Sliders that allowed us to put in,
you know, a smile, or a grimace,
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or a blink, or a cheek
puff or whatever.
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So I could see it, and then
look, "I'm going to tweak that."
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{\an8}See it again, tweak that,
tweak that, tweak that,
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make it better,
better, better, better.
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So that was a huge leap for us.
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Even then, I knew his
bloodthirsty nature.
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But I thought my heart
could change him.
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You want to lean into the
voice actor's performance,
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because that will help
the audience believe that
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that voice is coming out
of that animated character.
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So for example, on Dragonheart,
I had Sean Connery.
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And with a character
like Sean Connery,
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you've also got the legacy of all
the films that they've done before.
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So in Dr. No, there's a
famous sequence in there...
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You coming out?
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00:13:50,997 --> 00:13:52,914
He's been told that
there's this dragon.
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00:13:52,915 --> 00:13:55,250
I tell you, Mr. Bond, let's
get the hell out of here.
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00:13:55,251 --> 00:13:56,334
Listen, both of you.
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And he says, "There's no
such thing as dragons."
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There are no such
things as dragons.
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So we just took that line
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and we animated that as our
proof of concept for Draco,
232
00:14:06,179 --> 00:14:08,430
because I've got Connery
talking about dragons.
233
00:14:08,431 --> 00:14:10,974
But what's fabulous
about his face,
234
00:14:10,975 --> 00:14:12,059
and I can't do it,
235
00:14:12,060 --> 00:14:16,021
he will talk out of one side of his mouth
and he'll move it to the other side.
236
00:14:16,022 --> 00:14:18,440
So it'll be like,
"Oh, yes, Moneypenny."
237
00:14:18,441 --> 00:14:20,026
It goes kind of across.
238
00:14:20,526 --> 00:14:22,152
So we put that into Draco.
239
00:14:22,153 --> 00:14:24,238
And the director was
like, "Fantastic!"
240
00:14:24,739 --> 00:14:27,866
{\an8}We dragons love to
sing when we're happy.
241
00:14:27,867 --> 00:14:29,659
{\an8}Well, you're not
like a dragon at all.
242
00:14:29,660 --> 00:14:32,997
Well, how many dragons
do you know? Hmm?
243
00:14:33,748 --> 00:14:35,500
I found out later on...
244
00:14:36,250 --> 00:14:40,921
that George was watching from
his house in San Anselmo.
245
00:14:40,922 --> 00:14:43,340
They were showing him, of
course, what ILM was doing.
246
00:14:43,341 --> 00:14:47,260
And when he saw Dragonheart,
he then said to Jim Morris,
247
00:14:47,261 --> 00:14:49,472
"ILM is ready to do
The Phantom Menace.
248
00:14:49,972 --> 00:14:53,225
"They've now shown me they
can do digital characters.
249
00:14:53,226 --> 00:14:54,310
"We're ready to go."
250
00:14:54,727 --> 00:14:58,022
This is about 5.8
million of CG resources.
251
00:14:58,397 --> 00:15:00,899
He could see that
the technology was there
252
00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:02,943
to do a lot of what
he wanted to do.
253
00:15:02,944 --> 00:15:05,779
So my conversations with
George were more about
254
00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:09,032
how inexpensively can you do all
the things they want to do now.
255
00:15:09,033 --> 00:15:12,077
And, you know, George has always
been very mindful of the budget.
256
00:15:12,078 --> 00:15:14,538
Obviously, he's paying
for these films himself,
257
00:15:14,539 --> 00:15:18,375
so there was a big financial
issue to solve there.
258
00:15:18,376 --> 00:15:20,669
The reason that we
made so much money
259
00:15:20,670 --> 00:15:24,257
was because the films were so
cheap, so inexpensive.
260
00:15:25,091 --> 00:15:27,802
And that was the secret
to the whole thing.
261
00:15:28,177 --> 00:15:31,304
Well, plus you
had Rick McCallum.
262
00:15:31,305 --> 00:15:32,890
Yeah.
263
00:15:33,933 --> 00:15:37,270
Well, he was the enforcer.
264
00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:40,438
My name is Rick McCallum. I'm
the producer of Star Wars.
265
00:15:40,439 --> 00:15:43,358
We can talk about this
new little project.
266
00:15:43,359 --> 00:15:46,695
{\an8}Rick McCallum was George
Lucas' right hand.
267
00:15:46,696 --> 00:15:49,281
And he had a
reputation for being
268
00:15:49,282 --> 00:15:52,701
the almost literal
1,000-pound gorilla.
269
00:15:52,702 --> 00:15:55,078
That takes about a third
or half of the doors out.
270
00:15:55,079 --> 00:15:56,163
Half.
271
00:15:56,164 --> 00:15:57,914
Rick is a fascinating character.
272
00:15:57,915 --> 00:16:00,208
- You're talking about till next Thursday?
- Yep.
273
00:16:00,209 --> 00:16:02,085
At the moment, that's what
the forecast is saying.
274
00:16:02,086 --> 00:16:03,628
Shit.
275
00:16:03,629 --> 00:16:06,673
I've had Rick do some very,
very generous things to me.
276
00:16:06,674 --> 00:16:09,885
And then there's also been
budget meetings and stuff.
277
00:16:09,886 --> 00:16:13,305
When I left his office, I thought I
might bleed out on the way to my car.
278
00:16:13,306 --> 00:16:17,100
{\an8}If we pay somebody $1,000
a week, that's our total cost.
279
00:16:17,101 --> 00:16:19,562
If we do it through
you, it costs $2,000.
280
00:16:20,938 --> 00:16:22,230
That's just what it is.
281
00:16:22,231 --> 00:16:25,233
He didn't want
to follow ILM's structure
282
00:16:25,234 --> 00:16:27,444
{\an8}of budgeting and billing
and that sort of thing.
283
00:16:27,445 --> 00:16:32,782
{\an8}I remember vividly a meeting where
we bid the work on Phantom Menace,
284
00:16:32,783 --> 00:16:35,660
and the best we could do, we
came up, and we thought, like,
285
00:16:35,661 --> 00:16:40,832
it's going to be $102 million
to do the effects on this movie.
286
00:16:40,833 --> 00:16:43,668
And Rick slides a card
across the table from me,
287
00:16:43,669 --> 00:16:45,629
turns the card over,
and on the right back,
288
00:16:45,630 --> 00:16:49,966
as everybody is talking, and
writes "62 million all in,"
289
00:16:49,967 --> 00:16:53,721
and then draws a line with my
name for me to sign.
290
00:16:54,347 --> 00:16:56,057
That was kind of
typical of Rick.
291
00:16:56,974 --> 00:17:01,811
He had an aura around him
of being like a mob boss.
292
00:17:01,812 --> 00:17:03,855
That was
his reputation.
293
00:17:03,856 --> 00:17:06,816
And then you'd just have
this finger outline.
294
00:17:06,817 --> 00:17:07,901
Rick...
295
00:17:07,902 --> 00:17:10,654
Sorry. Yeah, but we own this footage.
296
00:17:10,655 --> 00:17:11,863
Whenever he was around,
297
00:17:11,864 --> 00:17:15,158
for me, I would just, I don't
know, stand behind something
298
00:17:15,159 --> 00:17:17,744
or avoid eye contact.
299
00:17:17,745 --> 00:17:20,456
This is the place we should
have been six months ago.
300
00:17:21,082 --> 00:17:23,751
Do we have it louder
outside? Okay.
301
00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:26,002
Wasn't enough noise.
302
00:17:26,003 --> 00:17:29,172
A movie runs like most
things that are run well,
303
00:17:29,173 --> 00:17:32,676
on a combination of
fear and loyalty.
304
00:17:32,677 --> 00:17:34,844
You're loyal to somebody
'cause you like them,
305
00:17:34,845 --> 00:17:37,681
{\an8}you're afraid what will happen if you
don't do what you're supposed to do.
306
00:17:37,682 --> 00:17:40,392
{\an8}- Welcome, Rick.
- Thank you, Joe. Nice to see you.
307
00:17:40,393 --> 00:17:42,686
- That's the way you get things done.
- Yeah.
308
00:17:42,687 --> 00:17:44,813
Unfortunate, but true.
309
00:17:44,814 --> 00:17:50,319
There was some serious shit going down
at the company at that particular moment.
310
00:17:50,861 --> 00:17:53,114
ILM had grown a little bloated.
311
00:17:53,739 --> 00:17:58,286
We had lawyers and accountants
telling you how to do your shots.
312
00:17:58,869 --> 00:18:01,663
We believed
that there was an art
313
00:18:01,664 --> 00:18:05,458
in doing the very minimal
necessary effort to do a shot
314
00:18:05,459 --> 00:18:06,918
instead of the maximum effort.
315
00:18:06,919 --> 00:18:08,587
{\an8}We needed a refresh.
316
00:18:08,588 --> 00:18:11,298
{\an8}And we actually called
it the Rebel Unit.
317
00:18:11,299 --> 00:18:15,219
And John Knoll was really
an architect of that.
318
00:18:15,886 --> 00:18:18,430
It's much more flexible.
It's like a commando unit.
319
00:18:18,431 --> 00:18:19,723
Rebel Unit is what we call it,
320
00:18:19,724 --> 00:18:22,058
but what it really is is
ILM has become the army,
321
00:18:22,059 --> 00:18:24,311
and what we're building is
this little commando unit.
322
00:18:24,312 --> 00:18:28,232
{\an8}The idea for the Rebel
Unit, um, really came...
323
00:18:28,899 --> 00:18:31,277
{\an8}It was actually the film
Star Trek: Generations.
324
00:18:33,863 --> 00:18:36,698
{\an8}I'd been going to
SIGGRAPH for years,
325
00:18:36,699 --> 00:18:39,285
learning about
computer graphics...
326
00:18:40,202 --> 00:18:41,995
walking the trade show floor,
327
00:18:41,996 --> 00:18:45,874
seeing what kinds of tools
were being developed.
328
00:18:45,875 --> 00:18:47,459
And I got excited
329
00:18:47,460 --> 00:18:50,755
by some of the desktop CG
tools that I was seeing.
330
00:18:51,547 --> 00:18:54,716
Things that couldn't do Jurassic
Park, but what they could do,
331
00:18:54,717 --> 00:18:57,678
they could do more efficiently
than what we could do.
332
00:18:58,554 --> 00:19:01,349
The thought was use simple
tools for simple jobs.
333
00:19:01,932 --> 00:19:05,811
They were using SGIs, maybe,
at the time. Silicon Graphics machine.
334
00:19:06,228 --> 00:19:09,564
We decide, "Well, okay, let's
just try doing stuff on Mac."
335
00:19:09,565 --> 00:19:13,318
I really thought, and I still
think, it was a great idea.
336
00:19:13,319 --> 00:19:15,320
This is a 200 and...
337
00:19:15,321 --> 00:19:16,821
200 megahertz.
338
00:19:16,822 --> 00:19:19,074
And when I got this
only nine months ago,
339
00:19:19,075 --> 00:19:21,534
it was the fastest notebook
computer in the world.
340
00:19:21,535 --> 00:19:24,287
And we didn't ask permission,
either. That was...
341
00:19:24,288 --> 00:19:25,372
We're just going to do it.
342
00:19:25,373 --> 00:19:28,625
We're just going to get some
Macs, we're going to do this work.
343
00:19:28,626 --> 00:19:30,960
And it's powerful
enough to do real work.
344
00:19:30,961 --> 00:19:33,046
I got 80 megs of RAM in there.
345
00:19:33,047 --> 00:19:34,924
I have a Zip drive in here now.
346
00:19:36,425 --> 00:19:40,679
And so, I built the
Enterprise in a program called formZ,
347
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,349
which is mostly an
architectural modeling program.
348
00:19:44,350 --> 00:19:47,185
And then I textured
it in Photoshop.
349
00:19:47,186 --> 00:19:51,440
And animated it in a program
called Electric Image.
350
00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:56,069
And I started getting pretty
enamored at this workflow
351
00:19:56,070 --> 00:20:00,782
that, hey, you know, these
inexpensive, simple desktop tools
352
00:20:00,783 --> 00:20:03,244
are a valid way of doing work.
353
00:20:05,454 --> 00:20:08,915
And I used it on two of
the Star Trek movies.
354
00:20:08,916 --> 00:20:13,336
And that sort of led into my work
on the Star Wars Special Edition.
355
00:20:19,677 --> 00:20:24,013
George wanted to do this rerelease
of the original Star Wars.
356
00:20:24,014 --> 00:20:27,434
And then, as part of
that restoration project,
357
00:20:27,435 --> 00:20:30,563
George wanted to redo some
visual effects shots in it.
358
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,191
There was a landspeeder crossing
the main plaza in Mos Eisley,
359
00:20:35,192 --> 00:20:38,737
where, originally, there was
this sort of heat shimmer effect
360
00:20:38,738 --> 00:20:40,990
that was added to try
and hide the wheels.
361
00:20:41,323 --> 00:20:44,784
And apparently, George always
really was bothered by that shot
362
00:20:44,785 --> 00:20:46,494
and figured we should redo that.
363
00:20:52,376 --> 00:20:56,172
And there's this
problem of where do you stop?
364
00:21:04,013 --> 00:21:05,305
You know, once you decide
365
00:21:05,306 --> 00:21:07,682
you want to fix this and
you want to fix that,
366
00:21:07,683 --> 00:21:09,602
then other shots stand out.
367
00:21:10,936 --> 00:21:15,648
{\an8}And pretty soon, it turned into
a special edition of the film.
368
00:21:18,110 --> 00:21:22,447
{\an8}We did the work quite a bit cheaper
than we could have done any other way.
369
00:21:22,448 --> 00:21:24,282
The shots looked beautiful.
370
00:21:24,283 --> 00:21:26,243
I was very happy with
how they turned out.
371
00:21:30,122 --> 00:21:33,625
And then that kind of ramped
up into a much bigger group
372
00:21:33,626 --> 00:21:36,086
doing the same
work on Episode I.
373
00:21:37,046 --> 00:21:38,255
John Knoll.
374
00:21:38,881 --> 00:21:41,675
John Knoll's a
genius.
375
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,596
With a film like Star Wars, every
single object has to be designed.
376
00:21:46,597 --> 00:21:49,307
It's something that most
people can't grab a hold of.
377
00:21:49,308 --> 00:21:51,519
Most filmmakers don't
have to cope with that.
378
00:21:52,186 --> 00:21:56,731
{\an8}And a lot of the film depends on
how well-executed the designs are.
379
00:21:56,732 --> 00:21:59,276
{\an8}- Welcome.
- Thank you. Hi, Joe.
380
00:21:59,944 --> 00:22:03,363
{\an8}I had always known that I wanted to
come out to work for George Lucas
381
00:22:03,364 --> 00:22:05,533
ever since I saw Star Wars
when I was 15 years old.
382
00:22:08,994 --> 00:22:12,121
{\an8}Because I grew up
studying your work, Joe.
383
00:22:12,122 --> 00:22:13,540
{\an8}And that was my schooling.
384
00:22:13,541 --> 00:22:16,167
Because I didn't really
take formal art classes.
385
00:22:16,168 --> 00:22:19,045
So when George made that announcement,
it was just mind-blowing,
386
00:22:19,046 --> 00:22:21,297
because like, "Okay, maybe
I could have a chance
387
00:22:21,298 --> 00:22:22,799
"to actually work on Star Wars."
388
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,342
And the irony was
that, at that time,
389
00:22:24,343 --> 00:22:26,845
I was the creative director
for Industrial Light and Magic.
390
00:22:26,846 --> 00:22:28,388
I was head of this
art department.
391
00:22:28,389 --> 00:22:31,224
It's a little more extreme, because
we need more stuff up in here.
392
00:22:31,225 --> 00:22:33,726
And all these little highlighted
areas are still real soft.
393
00:22:33,727 --> 00:22:36,980
And I thought, "Okay, well, George is
going to staff up this art department.
394
00:22:36,981 --> 00:22:38,147
"I'll be first in line."
395
00:22:38,148 --> 00:22:40,149
And the funny thing was
that George actually said,
396
00:22:40,150 --> 00:22:42,026
"No, I don't want anybody
from my companies.
397
00:22:42,027 --> 00:22:43,444
"I want to look worldwide."
398
00:22:43,445 --> 00:22:46,114
So I realized I had to just get
in line like everybody else.
399
00:22:46,115 --> 00:22:48,032
And so, I submitted
my portfolio.
400
00:22:48,033 --> 00:22:50,201
And I didn't hear
anything for a long time.
401
00:22:50,202 --> 00:22:52,579
And it was kind of like, "Okay,
well, maybe if I'm lucky,
402
00:22:52,580 --> 00:22:54,747
"I'll get to be a PA
in the art department."
403
00:22:54,748 --> 00:22:57,250
And then I got a call
from Rick McCallum.
404
00:22:57,251 --> 00:23:00,003
He said that George really
responds to your portfolio.
405
00:23:00,004 --> 00:23:01,754
And so we went up
to George's office.
406
00:23:01,755 --> 00:23:03,464
And I remember that day vividly,
407
00:23:03,465 --> 00:23:06,718
because it was like my first opportunity
to really actually just meet George
408
00:23:06,719 --> 00:23:08,261
- and speak with him.
- Yeah.
409
00:23:08,262 --> 00:23:09,638
And I was terrified.
410
00:23:10,222 --> 00:23:11,764
The first thing that
he said was that,
411
00:23:11,765 --> 00:23:14,017
"Forget everything you
thought that Star Wars was.
412
00:23:14,018 --> 00:23:16,102
"We're starting fresh.
We're creating a new style."
413
00:23:16,103 --> 00:23:18,105
We have to
reinvent the wheel here.
414
00:23:19,231 --> 00:23:20,231
And then right away,
415
00:23:20,232 --> 00:23:23,818
George started to describe all the
things that he wanted in the film.
416
00:23:23,819 --> 00:23:26,905
A gyroscope thing that's sort of
moving around on it down here.
417
00:23:26,906 --> 00:23:29,532
Suddenly he pushes forward, and
there's three buttons right there.
418
00:23:29,533 --> 00:23:31,576
- Yeah.
- Where those three buttons give a thing,
419
00:23:31,577 --> 00:23:32,869
- and then you cut.
- Yeah.
420
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:35,663
It turned into a production meeting.
And I was completely unprepared.
421
00:23:35,664 --> 00:23:38,666
Same thing for the starfighter. It
can't be a knob or it can't be a...
422
00:23:38,667 --> 00:23:40,168
- Okay.
- It can't be fuzzy.
423
00:23:40,169 --> 00:23:41,961
And I didn't have
any paper or pencil.
424
00:23:41,962 --> 00:23:45,381
And so, right away, on the coffee
table, there's a big stack of napkins,
425
00:23:45,382 --> 00:23:47,759
so I just grabbed and I started
to write down everything.
426
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,554
I remember at the end of that day,
my mind was just completely spinning.
427
00:23:51,555 --> 00:23:52,973
All right. See ya.
428
00:23:56,268 --> 00:23:59,980
My first day on the job
was January 15th in 1995.
429
00:24:00,940 --> 00:24:04,943
And first thing in the morning, I
started to draw a robotic stormtrooper.
430
00:24:04,944 --> 00:24:08,446
And I went into work and I finished it,
and it was one of my first drawings.
431
00:24:08,447 --> 00:24:10,032
And it was a complete failure.
432
00:24:10,866 --> 00:24:14,328
And I knew that nine times out of
ten, my drawings would be garbage.
433
00:24:19,166 --> 00:24:20,584
My art skills
aren't that strong.
434
00:24:22,461 --> 00:24:25,088
Art is really hard for me.
I have to really struggle.
435
00:24:25,089 --> 00:24:27,131
Maybe that's because I
didn't get proper training,
436
00:24:27,132 --> 00:24:29,468
so I always had to
stumble my way through it.
437
00:24:31,011 --> 00:24:33,304
I've always felt very insecure
in terms of my position
438
00:24:33,305 --> 00:24:36,934
that, you know, I'm faking
it, that it's not real.
439
00:24:39,228 --> 00:24:42,272
The first year was absolutely
horrifying for me...
440
00:24:43,732 --> 00:24:46,901
because I just... I put so
much pressure on myself.
441
00:24:46,902 --> 00:24:48,278
I didn't want to let him down.
442
00:24:49,822 --> 00:24:51,781
At first, it was just
myself and Terryl Whitlatch.
443
00:24:51,782 --> 00:24:53,908
And then once he had an
outline of the script,
444
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:55,535
I started to hire
more people in there,
445
00:24:55,536 --> 00:24:59,289
like Jay Shuster, Ed
Natividad, Iain McCaig.
446
00:24:59,873 --> 00:25:02,792
{\an8}We were just doing world-building
in its purest form,
447
00:25:02,793 --> 00:25:04,752
{\an8}without knowing what
the context was.
448
00:25:04,753 --> 00:25:08,131
{\an8}We were designing not only
spaceships and creatures and worlds,
449
00:25:08,132 --> 00:25:09,841
but we were also doing costumes.
450
00:25:09,842 --> 00:25:11,175
Yeah, that's beautiful.
451
00:25:11,176 --> 00:25:12,761
We were doing
the whole thing.
452
00:25:13,762 --> 00:25:17,098
And so, trying to do all of
that while trying to figure out,
453
00:25:17,099 --> 00:25:21,185
well, how do you create this
tapestry of animated characters
454
00:25:21,186 --> 00:25:22,687
that make it all believable?
455
00:25:22,688 --> 00:25:24,480
{\an8}We had no idea who
these characters were.
456
00:25:24,481 --> 00:25:28,693
{\an8}I have never before or since
been involved in a project
457
00:25:28,694 --> 00:25:30,403
that had that much secrecy.
458
00:25:30,404 --> 00:25:32,947
I hadn't read the script. None
of us had read the script.
459
00:25:32,948 --> 00:25:34,991
There was no script around.
460
00:25:34,992 --> 00:25:36,075
We knew from day one
461
00:25:36,076 --> 00:25:38,953
that George wanted to create sort
of a new synthetic character,
462
00:25:38,954 --> 00:25:40,204
and he went all in on it.
463
00:25:40,205 --> 00:25:42,331
He wanted to create a
new comedic character
464
00:25:42,332 --> 00:25:44,292
that was modeled
after Buster Keaton.
465
00:25:44,293 --> 00:25:45,543
There we go.
466
00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:47,587
A first draft.
467
00:25:47,588 --> 00:25:49,172
Official first draft.
468
00:25:49,173 --> 00:25:50,591
And that was Jar Jar.
469
00:25:57,598 --> 00:25:59,640
This was the first time
we were going to create
470
00:25:59,641 --> 00:26:03,603
a completely synthetic CG character
that could live in a live-action film.
471
00:26:06,231 --> 00:26:08,107
{\an8}I mean, obviously, we
had done the dinosaurs,
472
00:26:08,108 --> 00:26:10,610
{\an8}and those were solid, but
they didn't have to emote.
473
00:26:11,862 --> 00:26:13,780
When we first started
hearing about Jar Jar,
474
00:26:13,781 --> 00:26:15,740
we thought, "Are
we ready for this?"
475
00:26:15,741 --> 00:26:19,035
You know, we had done Casper,
we had done Dragonheart,
476
00:26:19,036 --> 00:26:21,913
we had done a number of films
that have full CG characters,
477
00:26:21,914 --> 00:26:24,373
but this was someone
who's human-sized,
478
00:26:24,374 --> 00:26:25,541
pretty close to it,
479
00:26:25,542 --> 00:26:28,544
has to act with actors and be
composited in all the shots
480
00:26:28,545 --> 00:26:31,506
but look like he's right
there, and have a personality.
481
00:26:31,507 --> 00:26:35,676
And it seemed like an
extremely hard thing to do
482
00:26:35,677 --> 00:26:38,137
for the hundreds of
shots that was necessary
483
00:26:38,138 --> 00:26:41,934
for him to be a minor-major
character in the show.
484
00:26:45,646 --> 00:26:49,315
Jar Jar is one of those interesting things
where when we started to design him,
485
00:26:49,316 --> 00:26:51,400
we weren't quite sure
where George was going.
486
00:26:55,072 --> 00:26:56,240
- Hello.
- Hello.
487
00:26:56,573 --> 00:26:58,574
And I remember we
chased it for a while,
488
00:26:58,575 --> 00:27:02,370
and he kept encouraging us to
go cartoonier, more graphic.
489
00:27:02,371 --> 00:27:04,956
And there was this one drawing
that Terryl did way back.
490
00:27:04,957 --> 00:27:07,041
He said, "That's the
closest thing that I want."
491
00:27:07,042 --> 00:27:11,546
{\an8}And it's funny because how
Jar Jar evolved, so to speak,
492
00:27:11,547 --> 00:27:14,841
was from a little drawing,
just a little sketch I had done
493
00:27:14,842 --> 00:27:17,385
for no reason at all but
for my own entertainment.
494
00:27:17,386 --> 00:27:18,720
And I had brought that with me.
495
00:27:19,263 --> 00:27:22,390
{\an8}George saw it and said,
"Yeah, this is kind of like...
496
00:27:22,391 --> 00:27:25,142
{\an8}"This is kind of like
Jar Jar in the eyes."
497
00:27:25,143 --> 00:27:27,520
{\an8}And so I just kind of
call these proto-Gungas.
498
00:27:27,521 --> 00:27:29,939
And that's kind
of how he started.
499
00:27:29,940 --> 00:27:33,484
The next day he came in and says,
"Make that into an alligator now."
500
00:27:33,485 --> 00:27:37,113
And at first I was like, "Wow,
an alligator, and mixed with this?"
501
00:27:37,114 --> 00:27:40,825
He kind of went through stages
where he looked sort of like a frog,
502
00:27:40,826 --> 00:27:45,746
and then like a salamander,
vaguely like an elephant,
503
00:27:45,747 --> 00:27:49,542
vaguely like a pig, which
happily didn't last too long,
504
00:27:49,543 --> 00:27:52,295
a little bit of
dachshund.
505
00:27:52,296 --> 00:27:54,589
Jar Jar has been many animals,
506
00:27:54,590 --> 00:27:57,967
and actually is composed
of quite a few animals.
507
00:27:57,968 --> 00:28:00,678
He really wanted to lean into
sort of this comedic aspect,
508
00:28:00,679 --> 00:28:03,472
{\an8}where his face was really malleable,
where his eyes could pop out,
509
00:28:03,473 --> 00:28:06,559
and we'd give it long ears
to kind of flop around.
510
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,519
We were always thinking
in the back of our mind,
511
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,355
well, are we pushing
the envelope too far?
512
00:28:10,814 --> 00:28:13,650
It almost felt that we were
taking too much of a risk.
513
00:28:14,276 --> 00:28:16,944
Because if Jar Jar didn't work, it
was going to ruin the whole thing,
514
00:28:16,945 --> 00:28:20,740
because he was a key
character in this whole story.
515
00:28:20,741 --> 00:28:22,533
What the heck. All right.
516
00:28:22,534 --> 00:28:24,076
- Okay.
- Bye, good night.
517
00:28:24,077 --> 00:28:25,995
We were creating all
these wonderful designs,
518
00:28:25,996 --> 00:28:28,289
but we knew we had to pass
it on to the next department
519
00:28:28,290 --> 00:28:30,041
and they had to
actually execute it.
520
00:28:30,042 --> 00:28:31,417
That's where it
was really great,
521
00:28:31,418 --> 00:28:34,545
because then I could actually
see the terror in their eyes.
522
00:28:34,546 --> 00:28:37,506
Because, you know, George had given
us the terror to design these things,
523
00:28:37,507 --> 00:28:40,468
and now we actually had to
implement them and make them real.
524
00:28:42,596 --> 00:28:44,805
There was a
meeting out at the Ranch
525
00:28:44,806 --> 00:28:48,644
where George had had Doug
Chiang and his group...
526
00:28:49,227 --> 00:28:51,605
storyboard all of Episode I.
527
00:28:54,775 --> 00:28:57,860
The storyboards were on
kind of moving whiteboards.
528
00:28:57,861 --> 00:29:00,655
And they just kept
wheeling in more and more.
529
00:29:00,656 --> 00:29:04,575
And they were completely
covered with beautiful artwork.
530
00:29:04,576 --> 00:29:09,705
And each one of these represented
incredible amounts of work and new worlds.
531
00:29:09,706 --> 00:29:13,334
And, you know, it was
an astonishing amount.
532
00:29:13,335 --> 00:29:18,381
And George talked us through
the whole story of the film,
533
00:29:18,382 --> 00:29:20,634
you know, one board at a time.
534
00:29:20,884 --> 00:29:25,430
This is real. This
is not. This is real.
535
00:29:25,889 --> 00:29:28,767
And it was dizzying
to keep up with it.
536
00:29:28,892 --> 00:29:30,185
This is gonna be tricky.
537
00:29:30,394 --> 00:29:32,812
Because every
client comes to us
538
00:29:32,813 --> 00:29:34,772
wanting to do something
a little bit different
539
00:29:34,773 --> 00:29:36,315
that we hadn't seen before,
540
00:29:36,316 --> 00:29:38,734
but almost on the
very first storyboard,
541
00:29:38,735 --> 00:29:42,822
there were things that, "Oh, yeah, no,
we don't have a good way of doing that."
542
00:29:42,823 --> 00:29:44,532
We've got a lot
to think about here.
543
00:29:46,118 --> 00:29:50,579
He was regularly including things
that were way beyond our capabilities.
544
00:29:50,580 --> 00:29:52,124
I know this is going to work.
545
00:29:52,582 --> 00:29:55,710
I know it's going to work
because it's impossible.
546
00:29:55,711 --> 00:29:58,421
But we're the only ones in the
world that can pull this off.
547
00:30:01,508 --> 00:30:06,178
One of the big challenges we
had was making a CG character
548
00:30:06,179 --> 00:30:08,764
one of the main cast throughout.
549
00:30:08,765 --> 00:30:13,394
Like, he's on every other
page of all three films.
550
00:30:13,395 --> 00:30:18,858
{\an8}Jar Jar was the only character that
really wasn't defined as far as a visual,
551
00:30:18,859 --> 00:30:22,111
obviously, he had, because he was
created by the art department.
552
00:30:22,112 --> 00:30:25,032
But more of an
essence of character.
553
00:30:26,992 --> 00:30:28,159
It was the one role
554
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,080
where the actor was going to
exclusively make that character.
555
00:30:35,584 --> 00:30:36,625
Welcome.
556
00:30:36,626 --> 00:30:38,378
- Thanks for having me.
- Oh, yeah.
557
00:30:39,379 --> 00:30:44,633
{\an8}In 1996, I was doing
STOMP in San Francisco.
558
00:30:51,475 --> 00:30:55,687
And Robin Gurland, who
cast Phantom Menace...
559
00:30:56,772 --> 00:30:58,272
she was in the audience.
560
00:30:58,273 --> 00:31:01,067
I'm sitting there watching, and
he was at the kitchen sink scene
561
00:31:01,068 --> 00:31:04,945
where he was moving his arms, and
his arms were absolutely boneless.
562
00:31:04,946 --> 00:31:07,198
And I'm looking going,
"That's Jar Jar."
563
00:31:07,199 --> 00:31:09,825
And they were like, "Can you come
to Skywalker Ranch and audition?"
564
00:31:09,826 --> 00:31:12,661
And I was just... What
do you say to that?
565
00:31:12,662 --> 00:31:14,706
You know, "No"? I mean...
566
00:31:15,791 --> 00:31:19,168
{\an8}So I drive to Skywalker
Ranch for my first audition.
567
00:31:19,169 --> 00:31:21,378
{\an8}And, you know,
when you get there,
568
00:31:21,379 --> 00:31:25,258
the first thing you see is they
have, like, a fire brigade...
569
00:31:25,759 --> 00:31:30,429
and all have the firemen have
patches, like fire patches,
570
00:31:30,430 --> 00:31:32,181
and they're all X-wing fighters.
571
00:31:32,182 --> 00:31:36,228
So I was like, "Whatever this is, I'm
getting to the next level of this."
572
00:31:38,939 --> 00:31:43,150
So Robin just set up the camera
and just asked me to do things.
573
00:31:43,151 --> 00:31:46,070
He immediately went
into the scene,
574
00:31:46,071 --> 00:31:47,988
the mannerisms, the...
575
00:31:47,989 --> 00:31:51,617
Even the way he kind
of babbled a bit.
576
00:31:51,618 --> 00:31:54,537
It was as if he read the
script and he was Jar Jar.
577
00:31:54,538 --> 00:31:56,790
And he knew nothing about
the character at all.
578
00:31:57,541 --> 00:31:59,583
So, you got the role.
579
00:31:59,584 --> 00:32:01,085
Yeah. Yeah.
580
00:32:01,086 --> 00:32:02,253
Shockingly.
581
00:32:02,254 --> 00:32:05,297
Yeah, I mean, I
really wasn't expecting it.
582
00:32:05,298 --> 00:32:07,633
When he came on board,
it was terrific,
583
00:32:07,634 --> 00:32:12,346
because Ahmed just had this sort
of physical presence about him
584
00:32:12,347 --> 00:32:15,683
where he could move, you know,
in really incredible ways.
585
00:32:15,684 --> 00:32:18,352
And so we realized, okay, well,
then this started to make sense.
586
00:32:18,353 --> 00:32:20,813
If we applied his performance
to this character,
587
00:32:20,814 --> 00:32:22,274
maybe there could be magic.
588
00:32:28,572 --> 00:32:34,202
George and I worked really
closely together for about two years.
589
00:32:37,831 --> 00:32:41,168
George is incredibly
astute as a film historian.
590
00:32:41,877 --> 00:32:46,088
And so, he would really dive
into these Buster Keaton movies
591
00:32:46,089 --> 00:32:50,176
and talk about why he's
moving the way he's moving.
592
00:32:50,177 --> 00:32:54,973
And that it just wasn't a comedy bit,
but it was a real motivation behind it.
593
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:57,934
And that helped me a lot.
594
00:33:08,737 --> 00:33:09,737
In Phantom Menace,
595
00:33:09,738 --> 00:33:14,617
it was really me and Liam Neeson
kind of together most of the time.
596
00:33:14,618 --> 00:33:18,288
I always imagined us being
like a buddy cop flick.
597
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:22,083
You know, it was like
Qui-Gon and Jar Jar.
598
00:33:23,084 --> 00:33:25,419
{\an8}I remember
standing with George.
599
00:33:25,420 --> 00:33:28,088
{\an8}They were shooting the
scene when Qui-Gon's running
600
00:33:28,089 --> 00:33:30,216
and he runs right into Jar Jar.
601
00:33:36,932 --> 00:33:40,392
And George introduced me to
Ahmed, and we had a chat there.
602
00:33:40,393 --> 00:33:44,855
And so, we have a full CG version
that we did using you as inspiration,
603
00:33:44,856 --> 00:33:46,315
- all your loose movement.
- Oh, cool.
604
00:33:46,316 --> 00:33:47,650
So I can show you both of those.
605
00:33:47,651 --> 00:33:48,901
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Yeah, yeah.
606
00:33:48,902 --> 00:33:50,612
I love Rob Coleman.
607
00:33:51,071 --> 00:33:54,616
Just a brilliant human being.
608
00:33:55,075 --> 00:33:59,788
So generous and so incredibly
open and collaborative.
609
00:34:00,997 --> 00:34:04,501
Rob was the guy who was going
to make this thing work.
610
00:34:06,795 --> 00:34:09,380
The combination of
animation and live-action
611
00:34:09,381 --> 00:34:11,007
was always the
thing that got me.
612
00:34:12,676 --> 00:34:13,801
It even goes back to, like,
613
00:34:13,802 --> 00:34:16,346
I remember being a little kid
and watching Mary Poppins.
614
00:34:17,514 --> 00:34:19,932
Dick Van Dyke dancing
with those penguins,
615
00:34:19,933 --> 00:34:22,476
even as a child, I knew
the penguins were animated.
616
00:34:22,477 --> 00:34:23,811
But the magic was,
617
00:34:23,812 --> 00:34:26,438
here's a man interacting
with the animation.
618
00:34:27,607 --> 00:34:30,234
And I was a kid who was reading
Cinefantastique and Starlog
619
00:34:30,235 --> 00:34:32,236
and was really interested
in behind-the-scenes,
620
00:34:32,237 --> 00:34:34,738
and I was a massive
fan of Ray Harryhausen.
621
00:34:34,739 --> 00:34:36,782
I remember running
home from school.
622
00:34:36,783 --> 00:34:39,743
I lived in Toronto, and there's a
channel out of Buffalo, New York,
623
00:34:39,744 --> 00:34:42,204
that played monster
movies in the afternoons.
624
00:34:42,205 --> 00:34:45,040
And they would have, like, a
double feature of Ray's films.
625
00:34:46,126 --> 00:34:48,627
My generation... We were
13 when Star Wars came out,
626
00:34:48,628 --> 00:34:51,297
and I can't even tell you how
many times I saw it that summer.
627
00:34:53,967 --> 00:34:58,345
And I think it was probably
at Empire or at Raiders
628
00:34:58,346 --> 00:34:59,847
where I started to notice that
629
00:34:59,848 --> 00:35:02,683
there's this company called
Industrial Light and Magic.
630
00:35:02,684 --> 00:35:06,020
All these things were just
leading me towards this path
631
00:35:06,021 --> 00:35:08,105
that I never thought I
would actually achieve.
632
00:35:08,106 --> 00:35:11,483
And I can draw a line directly
from those experiences
633
00:35:11,484 --> 00:35:13,444
as a kid watching those movies
634
00:35:13,445 --> 00:35:15,738
to what I got to do on
the Star Wars films,
635
00:35:15,739 --> 00:35:17,907
is the combining of
animation and live-action.
636
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:20,827
Must remove the watch.
637
00:35:21,578 --> 00:35:23,622
Gungans don't know
what time it is.
638
00:35:24,664 --> 00:35:27,916
Having that
character sharing a screen
639
00:35:27,917 --> 00:35:31,545
with Ewan and Liam
and Natalie...
640
00:35:31,546 --> 00:35:32,630
Stand by.
641
00:35:32,631 --> 00:35:37,427
... who are alive and breathing and
naturally engaging for the audience...
642
00:35:39,054 --> 00:35:43,849
and having to have that digital
character holding his own,
643
00:35:43,850 --> 00:35:46,977
that was a very tall
order for us at that time.
644
00:35:49,147 --> 00:35:51,690
George then said,
"Just watch Ahmed."
645
00:35:51,691 --> 00:35:52,900
Which way?
646
00:35:52,901 --> 00:35:53,984
Great.
647
00:35:53,985 --> 00:35:57,279
Ahmed was super energetic,
really positive,
648
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,239
big smile on his
face all the time.
649
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,701
I think he just couldn't believe
he was in a Star Wars movie.
650
00:36:02,702 --> 00:36:06,080
"Ah, dissen cozy."
651
00:36:06,081 --> 00:36:09,750
And he just had this glow,
this energy and this happiness.
652
00:36:11,836 --> 00:36:12,962
Excuse me.
653
00:36:13,338 --> 00:36:18,092
George wanted Jar Jar driven
absolutely physically by Ahmed.
654
00:36:18,093 --> 00:36:19,761
One more time.
655
00:36:23,890 --> 00:36:28,268
So the initial plan is that
Ahmed's wearing a full costume
656
00:36:28,269 --> 00:36:30,562
and he's wearing a
little Jar Jar hat.
657
00:36:30,563 --> 00:36:33,315
But along the neck, you can
see some little green LEDs,
658
00:36:33,316 --> 00:36:35,609
because he was only going
to be computer graphics
659
00:36:35,610 --> 00:36:36,694
from the neck up.
660
00:36:36,695 --> 00:36:39,905
He was only going to have
a CG neck, head, and ears.
661
00:36:39,906 --> 00:36:41,533
The rest of it was
going to be Ahmed.
662
00:36:44,703 --> 00:36:46,829
George was saying,
"Well, the whole body is the guy.
663
00:36:46,830 --> 00:36:48,622
"We've got a great actor.
664
00:36:48,623 --> 00:36:50,582
{\an8}"I just want him to have
this interesting head."
665
00:36:50,583 --> 00:36:54,378
{\an8}Maybe the hands can be augmented with
fake hands he's wearing or something.
666
00:36:54,379 --> 00:36:56,505
Great. Sounds great.
Why can't we do that?
667
00:36:56,506 --> 00:36:59,633
I was sort of opposed to that
idea for a couple of reasons.
668
00:36:59,634 --> 00:37:02,219
If you were going to
do just a head replace,
669
00:37:02,220 --> 00:37:05,305
you had to match the camera,
you had to match the figure,
670
00:37:05,306 --> 00:37:07,266
you had to do an
exact lighting match.
671
00:37:07,267 --> 00:37:09,893
So it looked to me like it
was just going to be more work
672
00:37:09,894 --> 00:37:13,063
to do the partial than it
was to do the complete.
673
00:37:13,064 --> 00:37:18,235
The thing that we freaked out about
when John suggested doing it full CG is,
674
00:37:18,236 --> 00:37:20,612
you know, we could see, "Oh,
my god, this is going to cost
675
00:37:20,613 --> 00:37:23,365
"two, three, four
million dollars more."
676
00:37:23,366 --> 00:37:25,826
Jar Jar is
constantly being debated.
677
00:37:25,827 --> 00:37:30,748
ILM, who said we could save a ton
of money by using a guy in a suit
678
00:37:30,749 --> 00:37:33,500
and just putting the head on
it, has now come back and said,
679
00:37:33,501 --> 00:37:35,294
"We don't know how much
money we're gonna..."
680
00:37:35,295 --> 00:37:37,087
So they still have to
get their act together.
681
00:37:37,088 --> 00:37:40,090
They haven't figured out exactly what
the most economical way to do this is.
682
00:37:40,091 --> 00:37:43,385
So I challenged ILM and
I challenged John to say,
683
00:37:43,386 --> 00:37:47,806
"Okay, can you prove that,
that it'll be the same cost?"
684
00:37:47,807 --> 00:37:50,518
And John quickly did a test.
685
00:37:51,394 --> 00:37:53,061
The purpose of
this test is to see
686
00:37:53,062 --> 00:37:55,230
what the head attachment
is really going to be like.
687
00:37:55,231 --> 00:37:57,149
And it's been brought
up as a concern
688
00:37:57,150 --> 00:37:59,985
that we may need to have some
additional tracking marks further up
689
00:37:59,986 --> 00:38:01,820
because we have to match
the shoulders as well
690
00:38:01,821 --> 00:38:03,031
to actually do that blend.
691
00:38:04,699 --> 00:38:05,908
And they sent it back to ILM.
692
00:38:05,909 --> 00:38:08,911
It was ingested, and we then went
about trying to match move...
693
00:38:08,912 --> 00:38:12,206
A character moving through
three dimensions with this neck,
694
00:38:12,207 --> 00:38:13,999
and it was incredibly difficult.
695
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:15,584
Really, really hard.
696
00:38:15,585 --> 00:38:17,503
Even when we got the neck in,
697
00:38:17,504 --> 00:38:21,507
even if it was a pixel off,
our eye sees it as a misalign.
698
00:38:21,508 --> 00:38:22,634
It didn't believe in it.
699
00:38:22,967 --> 00:38:26,512
And we had an animator
animate a full CG version of it
700
00:38:26,513 --> 00:38:28,138
with no compromises,
701
00:38:28,139 --> 00:38:32,059
designed with all those proportioned
limb-length things in there.
702
00:38:32,060 --> 00:38:35,145
And the side-by-side
is what we showed to George
703
00:38:35,146 --> 00:38:36,605
and made our case about
704
00:38:36,606 --> 00:38:39,900
why this is going to be
really hard to pull off
705
00:38:39,901 --> 00:38:41,568
just to do the neck and head.
706
00:38:41,569 --> 00:38:44,655
And we shot Ahmed doing
a little action here
707
00:38:44,656 --> 00:38:48,492
so we could test to how well the
head replacement thing would work.
708
00:38:48,493 --> 00:38:49,952
Here are two
different approaches.
709
00:38:49,953 --> 00:38:51,662
Bottom, of course, is
the head replacement.
710
00:38:51,663 --> 00:38:54,039
The top is the fully
animated figure.
711
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:55,499
As it turns out,
712
00:38:55,500 --> 00:38:58,335
the fully animated one was
actually about half the man hours
713
00:38:58,336 --> 00:38:59,878
of the head replacement.
714
00:38:59,879 --> 00:39:03,674
So we spent $100,000 on that suit
that we didn't need to spend.
715
00:39:03,675 --> 00:39:06,426
The test somehow came
out to be more expensive
716
00:39:06,427 --> 00:39:11,181
if you replaced the head and neck
than if you did an all-CG one.
717
00:39:11,182 --> 00:39:14,227
I was always very
skeptical of that.
718
00:39:14,811 --> 00:39:18,146
{\an8}The difference of the approach
we would take without a suit
719
00:39:18,147 --> 00:39:19,731
{\an8}is about $1,300,000.
720
00:39:19,732 --> 00:39:21,984
{\an8}I think, at some point,
there's sort of a threshold
721
00:39:21,985 --> 00:39:25,362
where, jeez, it's going to
be easier to handle that.
722
00:39:25,363 --> 00:39:28,574
The rumor I heard later
was that that was not true.
723
00:39:28,575 --> 00:39:32,536
They actually gave the
match move of the head
724
00:39:32,537 --> 00:39:34,873
to an animator who
was not very fast...
725
00:39:35,331 --> 00:39:39,335
and they gave the full animation version
to an animator that was super-fast.
726
00:39:40,044 --> 00:39:41,045
So...
727
00:39:41,546 --> 00:39:45,508
Was the test
cooked? Not in my mind.
728
00:39:46,092 --> 00:39:49,386
And it just was like, has
the company come to this,
729
00:39:49,387 --> 00:39:51,805
or have the artists
come to this?
730
00:39:51,806 --> 00:39:53,181
If there was something going on
731
00:39:53,182 --> 00:39:56,602
where Rob had better
talent on the all-CG test
732
00:39:56,603 --> 00:40:01,607
than the just the head version,
he didn't tell me that.
733
00:40:01,608 --> 00:40:02,983
What a great rumor.
734
00:40:02,984 --> 00:40:04,860
- Is it true?
- It's true.
735
00:40:04,861 --> 00:40:06,695
- George told me about it.
- Ah!
736
00:40:06,696 --> 00:40:08,615
And I said, "That makes sense."
737
00:40:12,327 --> 00:40:15,120
So George agreed in that
he liked the animation,
738
00:40:15,121 --> 00:40:17,414
but he was really concerned
739
00:40:17,415 --> 00:40:21,001
because he said, "I don't want
to lose the essence of Ahmed.
740
00:40:21,002 --> 00:40:22,586
"That's why I cast him.
741
00:40:22,587 --> 00:40:24,838
"And your animators, I'm
sure, are great, Rob,
742
00:40:24,839 --> 00:40:27,091
"but I doubt that
they can do this."
743
00:40:28,259 --> 00:40:30,677
And I remember Jeff
Light at ILM...
744
00:40:30,678 --> 00:40:31,845
Give that a try.
745
00:40:31,846 --> 00:40:34,806
... was the person who introduced
me to the idea of motion capture.
746
00:40:34,807 --> 00:40:36,808
I hope that's not going
to be too small for you.
747
00:40:36,809 --> 00:40:38,185
It's supposed to
be a little tight.
748
00:40:38,186 --> 00:40:42,856
You wear a very tight,
very revealing catsuit.
749
00:40:42,857 --> 00:40:44,775
Okay, everyone, let's
start with a brief warmup.
750
00:40:44,776 --> 00:40:46,360
We're going to start
with a stretch.
751
00:40:46,361 --> 00:40:49,989
And in this bodysuit, you
have all of these targets.
752
00:40:50,406 --> 00:40:53,409
Those targets are
tracked by cameras.
753
00:40:53,910 --> 00:40:54,994
And action.
754
00:40:56,287 --> 00:40:58,538
The targets are
captured into the drives,
755
00:40:58,539 --> 00:41:02,042
and what the animators
use as a skeletal system
756
00:41:02,043 --> 00:41:04,586
are these points that
they call a point cloud.
757
00:41:04,587 --> 00:41:06,214
George, take a look at this.
758
00:41:07,006 --> 00:41:13,262
And they use that to literally
draw your character over.
759
00:41:13,763 --> 00:41:16,848
You now have captured that motion,
which you can use in any way you want.
760
00:41:16,849 --> 00:41:18,850
You can manipulate
it. You can scale it.
761
00:41:18,851 --> 00:41:22,187
If we can just use your performance,
there's no need to keyframe animate it.
762
00:41:22,188 --> 00:41:25,107
You do these great things where you're
moving, your hands are like that.
763
00:41:25,108 --> 00:41:27,359
If we can capture that, then
we don't have to animate it.
764
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,653
We can take those and stick
those into different scenes.
765
00:41:29,654 --> 00:41:31,948
It was so experimental
at the time.
766
00:41:33,324 --> 00:41:36,327
None of us knew what would
work and what wouldn't work.
767
00:41:37,078 --> 00:41:40,080
But because we were all together
768
00:41:40,081 --> 00:41:42,542
and because George had
so much faith in it...
769
00:41:43,251 --> 00:41:46,212
we really made
something special.
770
00:41:48,256 --> 00:41:50,799
Back in film school, you could
release that as a final project.
771
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:53,928
Get the right music.
772
00:41:55,263 --> 00:41:59,850
There were times where I thought that,
personally, my own personal take,
773
00:41:59,851 --> 00:42:05,230
I thought maybe we were making the
character too slapstick or too goofy.
774
00:42:07,775 --> 00:42:08,860
My tongue!
775
00:42:12,113 --> 00:42:15,449
But at every turn, George
said, "No, no, no, no.
776
00:42:15,450 --> 00:42:17,242
"This is his role
within the movie.
777
00:42:17,243 --> 00:42:19,786
"This is his position
within the story."
778
00:42:19,787 --> 00:42:21,455
He told me once, he said...
779
00:42:21,456 --> 00:42:24,166
I said, "I don't want to
be goofy with this thing."
780
00:42:24,167 --> 00:42:25,709
He goes, "Dare to be dopey."
781
00:42:25,710 --> 00:42:28,462
He says, "Dare to be dopey,
Rob. Make this dopey."
782
00:42:28,463 --> 00:42:31,089
And I'm like, "Okay. Okay."
783
00:42:31,090 --> 00:42:33,342
- Hmm?
- Don't touch anything.
784
00:42:33,885 --> 00:42:35,135
And so we did.
785
00:42:37,764 --> 00:42:41,391
George once said to Rob
Coleman, "Dare to be dopey."
786
00:42:41,392 --> 00:42:42,476
Yeah.
787
00:42:42,477 --> 00:42:46,480
- Did he say the same thing to you?
- No. He never said that to me.
788
00:42:46,481 --> 00:42:51,735
I was probably dopey
anyway.
789
00:42:51,736 --> 00:42:54,237
Um, so I didn't need
that note.
790
00:42:57,784 --> 00:42:59,534
This was an enormous
undertaking.
791
00:42:59,535 --> 00:43:03,330
We had gone from I'm guessing
around 200 shots on Men in Black
792
00:43:03,331 --> 00:43:06,166
to 2,000 shots on
Phantom Menace.
793
00:43:06,167 --> 00:43:09,504
And the scale and scope
of it was overwhelming.
794
00:43:10,171 --> 00:43:13,633
I mean, I was really
anxious about the project.
795
00:43:15,009 --> 00:43:19,180
It was kind of all on his shoulders,
and he was under a lot of pressure.
796
00:43:19,972 --> 00:43:22,475
We had a weekly
production meeting.
797
00:43:23,601 --> 00:43:26,228
And there was only ever one
agenda item on the thing.
798
00:43:26,229 --> 00:43:27,771
It said, "Can we
get the movie done?"
799
00:43:27,772 --> 00:43:29,856
And the answer, month
after month, was,
800
00:43:29,857 --> 00:43:33,986
"No, we cannot get the movie done."
Even though we were in production.
801
00:43:35,321 --> 00:43:38,199
Just a continual
tsunami of work.
802
00:43:38,574 --> 00:43:39,825
Just fix that hand.
803
00:43:39,826 --> 00:43:41,494
And then behind the people.
804
00:43:42,537 --> 00:43:45,080
I was suffering
from insomnia,
805
00:43:45,081 --> 00:43:46,498
and I was worrying about
806
00:43:46,499 --> 00:43:49,418
the millions of people who
had waited for this film.
807
00:43:50,586 --> 00:43:51,837
I remember what it was like
808
00:43:51,838 --> 00:43:54,881
to come out of Return of
the Jedi at 19 years old.
809
00:43:54,882 --> 00:43:57,926
And back then, George had
said, "There's more films."
810
00:43:57,927 --> 00:44:00,846
I think he had said there
was six or nine films.
811
00:44:00,847 --> 00:44:03,140
And I remember
thinking at the time,
812
00:44:03,141 --> 00:44:05,851
I wonder how long I have to have
to wait to see those next movies.
813
00:44:05,852 --> 00:44:07,978
Not knowing that I was going
to be one of the people
814
00:44:07,979 --> 00:44:10,397
to help bring it to
the screen, of course.
815
00:44:10,398 --> 00:44:12,816
So I was worrying about all
these millions of people.
816
00:44:12,817 --> 00:44:15,861
It got so bad that I drove
up to Skywalker Ranch
817
00:44:15,862 --> 00:44:18,655
and went into his office,
and he was like, "What's up?"
818
00:44:18,656 --> 00:44:22,742
And I said, "The pressure of the millions
of people waiting for this movie.
819
00:44:22,743 --> 00:44:24,244
"I don't know if I can do this."
820
00:44:24,245 --> 00:44:27,874
And he laughed at me and he said,
"What are you talking about?
821
00:44:28,374 --> 00:44:31,835
"You need to worry about
one person, and that's me.
822
00:44:31,836 --> 00:44:33,503
"And I'm happy with the work."
823
00:44:33,504 --> 00:44:35,881
And I was like, "You're
happy with the work?"
824
00:44:35,882 --> 00:44:38,300
And he's like, "Yes, I'm
very happy with the work."
825
00:44:38,301 --> 00:44:40,093
And I went home and
I slept like a baby.
826
00:44:40,094 --> 00:44:43,639
I just kept saying,
you know, keep trying.
827
00:44:44,098 --> 00:44:45,765
And eventually, they got it.
828
00:44:45,766 --> 00:44:50,145
We're supposed to be the experts
who can break down these ideas
829
00:44:50,146 --> 00:44:53,816
and figure out how to turn
them into an image on screen.
830
00:44:57,445 --> 00:44:58,445
Yeah, not bad.
831
00:44:58,446 --> 00:45:00,363
- Right.
- Yeah.
832
00:45:00,364 --> 00:45:04,201
There were plenty of scenes that were
beyond the capability of the tech
833
00:45:04,202 --> 00:45:06,786
that was available
to us at the time.
834
00:45:06,787 --> 00:45:09,206
You know, a big one
for me was the podrace.
835
00:45:14,212 --> 00:45:15,337
Yeah, there you go.
836
00:45:15,338 --> 00:45:17,089
Let's bring the map in here.
837
00:45:20,343 --> 00:45:21,509
Podracing made easy.
838
00:45:22,678 --> 00:45:27,515
My first real exposure to the podrace
was Doug Chiang's paintings of it.
839
00:45:27,516 --> 00:45:30,310
He'd done some beautiful
concept paintings.
840
00:45:30,311 --> 00:45:35,691
I knew that was going to be an
important set piece in the movie.
841
00:45:36,025 --> 00:45:38,235
So what is this
between the pods here?
842
00:45:38,236 --> 00:45:41,446
- It's sort of lightning-like...
- Yeah. It's energy.
843
00:45:41,447 --> 00:45:44,407
It's a super-energetic magnetic
field that holds them together.
844
00:45:44,408 --> 00:45:48,703
George had described it as
like the Ben-Hur chariot race.
845
00:45:57,296 --> 00:46:00,299
I thought, "Boy, this is going
to be a really cool sequence."
846
00:46:04,804 --> 00:46:08,223
The podrace at first
started out as its own movie.
847
00:46:08,224 --> 00:46:13,520
{\an8}I was usually brought in a few
months before principal photography.
848
00:46:13,521 --> 00:46:14,772
Okay, here we go.
849
00:46:15,564 --> 00:46:19,943
Storyboards in a traditional
sense, which are static drawings,
850
00:46:19,944 --> 00:46:22,779
you start with those, because
you have to start somewhere.
851
00:46:22,780 --> 00:46:25,490
But you really need
something in motion.
852
00:46:25,491 --> 00:46:29,869
{\an8}We never started anything without Ben
starting the same day that we did.
853
00:46:29,870 --> 00:46:33,081
And Ben would put together
a chase of old footage,
854
00:46:33,082 --> 00:46:35,126
and we would follow
it frame by frame.
855
00:46:35,793 --> 00:46:38,712
Let's explore all the
different chases we've ever seen.
856
00:46:38,713 --> 00:46:43,508
Let's start by looking and analyzing
every car chase, every helicopter chase,
857
00:46:43,509 --> 00:46:46,303
whatever it might be.
Every chariot race.
858
00:46:46,304 --> 00:46:48,263
So let's have a lot
of life in this, okay?
859
00:46:48,264 --> 00:46:50,682
And let's run the wind machine.
860
00:46:53,477 --> 00:46:55,186
And action!
861
00:46:55,187 --> 00:46:58,690
So I got my son,
put some goggles on.
862
00:46:58,691 --> 00:47:00,817
My son was sort
of playing Anakin.
863
00:47:00,818 --> 00:47:04,362
And I used a weed blower
so his hair is flapping.
864
00:47:04,363 --> 00:47:06,823
The art department out on
the third floor at the Ranch,
865
00:47:06,824 --> 00:47:09,242
the videomatic team,
built two podracers,
866
00:47:09,243 --> 00:47:12,996
an Anakin full-sized
one, and a Sebulba.
867
00:47:12,997 --> 00:47:15,081
They were just built
out of foam board.
868
00:47:15,082 --> 00:47:19,002
And we took them down to the basement
where we had a green screen cyclorama,
869
00:47:19,003 --> 00:47:21,254
and I just used this... I
had like a Steadicam JR.
870
00:47:21,255 --> 00:47:24,049
I mean, you could float,
and he pretended to fly.
871
00:47:24,050 --> 00:47:26,761
And then we comped that
together with backgrounds.
872
00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:30,430
No children were harmed in
the making of this animatic.
873
00:47:30,431 --> 00:47:32,058
Ready? Jump.
874
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:34,920
And that worked out well. It
gave me something to cut with.
875
00:47:38,814 --> 00:47:41,274
- I mean, that new Sebulba's great.
- Yeah, he was fun.
876
00:47:41,275 --> 00:47:43,819
It's funny. We're going to
have to think about his acting.
877
00:47:44,653 --> 00:47:47,238
And then ILM could
take it from there.
878
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,491
It's hard to judge now,
because they are grey.
879
00:47:49,492 --> 00:47:52,535
Both John and I are
very nerdy, geeky guys.
880
00:47:52,536 --> 00:47:56,206
{\an8}And he said, "You know, these pods go at
very high speeds and they have to crash."
881
00:47:56,207 --> 00:47:59,417
{\an8}We have to simulate
something breaking apart.
882
00:47:59,418 --> 00:48:01,628
- Like, exploding.
- Yeah, exactly.
883
00:48:01,629 --> 00:48:04,047
"But I'd really like
to simulate them,
884
00:48:04,048 --> 00:48:08,551
"as opposed to hand keyframe all
the motion, because of realism."
885
00:48:08,552 --> 00:48:11,054
I'll show you the
geometry in Maya.
886
00:48:11,055 --> 00:48:13,932
I come from a family
of scientists and engineers,
887
00:48:13,933 --> 00:48:17,936
so I'm trying to inject some
scientific accuracy into things
888
00:48:17,937 --> 00:48:20,563
even when they're, you
know, sort of silly fantasy.
889
00:48:20,564 --> 00:48:25,318
And the design of the pods was, you
have these two jet engines, basically,
890
00:48:25,319 --> 00:48:27,780
that are held together
with this force field.
891
00:48:28,197 --> 00:48:31,324
And then there's these ropes
attached, one to each engine,
892
00:48:31,325 --> 00:48:33,493
and then you're
riding in the back.
893
00:48:33,494 --> 00:48:38,249
And I kind of wanted them to have
this sort of floaty bounce to them...
894
00:48:38,999 --> 00:48:41,292
that felt like they were
suspended on springs.
895
00:48:41,293 --> 00:48:45,630
I had done a 2D proof
of concept before that,
896
00:48:45,631 --> 00:48:49,050
and I showed that
to Habib and said,
897
00:48:49,051 --> 00:48:51,302
"All right, let's see if we
can do a 3D version of this."
898
00:48:51,303 --> 00:48:53,012
There's another one
where we did that trick
899
00:48:53,013 --> 00:48:55,348
where we turned it into a
spring and then pushed it apart.
900
00:48:55,349 --> 00:48:59,185
So the idea that Habib
and I came up with was
901
00:48:59,186 --> 00:49:01,271
we're going to make
an invisible framework
902
00:49:01,272 --> 00:49:07,402
that suspends the engines
and the cockpit from springs,
903
00:49:07,403 --> 00:49:10,029
and we're going to
animate that framework,
904
00:49:10,030 --> 00:49:13,908
and then the engines are going
to bounce around and shake
905
00:49:13,909 --> 00:49:20,081
and have that sort of simulated
complexity to the motion.
906
00:49:20,082 --> 00:49:22,834
And then all the pod pieces
would react with physics.
907
00:49:22,835 --> 00:49:26,671
If it couldn't, that means you must be
doing something wrong with your animation,
908
00:49:26,672 --> 00:49:29,300
because physics is
never wrong, right?
909
00:49:30,301 --> 00:49:32,011
And I still remember
the moment...
910
00:49:32,928 --> 00:49:36,639
I hit play and we
watched these two engines
911
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,435
{\an8}just floating like this,
affecting each other...
912
00:49:41,687 --> 00:49:43,063
{\an8}very subtly.
913
00:49:43,564 --> 00:49:47,192
{\an8}And John and I look at each other
and we're like, "This is it."
914
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,197
I'm like, "Yeah, this is great,
this is exactly what we want."
915
00:50:04,168 --> 00:50:05,835
But then we had to
do the crash shots.
916
00:50:05,836 --> 00:50:07,253
That was the...
917
00:50:07,254 --> 00:50:09,422
That was the really
big challenge.
918
00:50:09,423 --> 00:50:12,551
George didn't want things to
just blow up into nothing.
919
00:50:15,471 --> 00:50:18,389
He'd pointed us to
Formula 1 races.
920
00:50:22,853 --> 00:50:27,357
The aesthetic that George wanted to
pursue for the crashing podracers
921
00:50:27,358 --> 00:50:30,276
was one of just kinetic energy.
922
00:50:30,277 --> 00:50:35,406
That he referred to these
Formula 1 car crashes
923
00:50:35,407 --> 00:50:38,910
where one of these
racing cars hits a wall
924
00:50:38,911 --> 00:50:43,039
or collides with another
vehicle at 180 miles an hour.
925
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,793
That there's a massive amount
of kinetic energy in them
926
00:50:46,794 --> 00:50:49,922
that takes a really
long time to dissipate.
927
00:50:52,424 --> 00:50:56,470
The aesthetic of that was
something that George really loved.
928
00:50:57,304 --> 00:50:59,013
You know, when they
hit, they tumble
929
00:50:59,014 --> 00:51:01,224
and they just keep going and
pieces shred off of them.
930
00:51:01,225 --> 00:51:03,851
Now you're trying to crash
something at 800 miles an hour,
931
00:51:03,852 --> 00:51:08,148
and you want it to start
rolling at the right time.
932
00:51:09,024 --> 00:51:13,153
{\an8}And we're having a lot of trouble
coming up with it doing that...
933
00:51:14,363 --> 00:51:16,781
{\an8}so we put these enormous...
934
00:51:16,782 --> 00:51:19,409
{\an8}I call them blocks of
foam, but they were...
935
00:51:19,410 --> 00:51:22,328
{\an8}We put these enormous
invisible heavy blocks of foam
936
00:51:22,329 --> 00:51:26,082
that these things would slam into at
800 miles an hour and go tumbling.
937
00:51:26,083 --> 00:51:28,668
And we could adjust
their timing and position
938
00:51:28,669 --> 00:51:30,253
and how much they weighed.
939
00:51:30,254 --> 00:51:32,381
But we never actually
rendered them.
940
00:51:32,923 --> 00:51:35,300
First, you take
the biggest pieces
941
00:51:35,301 --> 00:51:37,719
{\an8}and you say, "Okay, I want
this pod to hit the ground
942
00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:40,763
{\an8}"and then break into two
pieces and they tumble."
943
00:51:40,764 --> 00:51:43,641
{\an8}So you run a simulation
on that till you're happy.
944
00:51:43,642 --> 00:51:45,435
{\an8}And then you kind of
lock that in and go,
945
00:51:45,436 --> 00:51:48,479
{\an8}"Okay, let's put the next
level of detail onto that."
946
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,316
So what are all the small pieces
that are breaking off of that
947
00:51:51,317 --> 00:51:52,942
and start tumbling around?
948
00:51:52,943 --> 00:51:54,777
And when you're happy
with that, you go like,
949
00:51:54,778 --> 00:51:57,363
"Okay, let's put in the
smoke, let's put in the fire,
950
00:51:57,364 --> 00:52:00,408
"let's put in the sparks, and the
dust, and all of those things."
951
00:52:00,409 --> 00:52:03,786
{\an8}And ultimately, most of these
shots will end up having,
952
00:52:03,787 --> 00:52:08,333
{\an8}like, 20 to 30 different
simulation elements in them
953
00:52:08,334 --> 00:52:12,170
{\an8}to give them the complexity
that a real event like that has.
954
00:52:24,058 --> 00:52:26,684
You know, the interesting
thing about George is
955
00:52:26,685 --> 00:52:29,354
he is not very demonstrative.
956
00:52:29,355 --> 00:52:33,274
And sometimes the
way you find out
957
00:52:33,275 --> 00:52:37,654
that he's happy with your
work is very indirectly.
958
00:52:37,655 --> 00:52:42,700
{\an8}Um, when we were working on
the podrace, as an example,
959
00:52:42,701 --> 00:52:46,246
{\an8}I elected to build the
stadium as a miniature.
960
00:52:52,753 --> 00:52:54,004
And it was pretty big.
961
00:52:54,421 --> 00:52:56,214
- Keep that dolly.
- Yeah.
962
00:52:56,215 --> 00:52:58,591
There's this misconception
when people look at the prequels
963
00:52:58,592 --> 00:53:00,094
that they think
it's all digital.
964
00:53:00,969 --> 00:53:03,846
{\an8}Episode I had more miniatures
than any of the Star Wars films...
965
00:53:03,847 --> 00:53:05,683
{\an8}In fact, all the Star
Wars films combined.
966
00:53:08,352 --> 00:53:10,604
Nothing like a good
walk in the morning.
967
00:53:11,146 --> 00:53:13,106
If it doesn't move, push harder.
968
00:53:13,107 --> 00:53:14,524
That's my philosophy of life.
969
00:53:14,525 --> 00:53:15,942
And they were huge.
970
00:53:15,943 --> 00:53:18,194
Looking at the rocks,
they look great outside.
971
00:53:18,195 --> 00:53:19,613
- Yeah, they do.
- Really good.
972
00:53:21,907 --> 00:53:25,034
One day, George
was here for a VFX review,
973
00:53:25,035 --> 00:53:27,620
and at the end of the
review, I asked George,
974
00:53:27,621 --> 00:53:32,917
"Hey, I've got the podrace stadium models
set up over on the stage next door.
975
00:53:32,918 --> 00:53:35,086
"Do you want to see it?"
He said, "Yeah, all right."
976
00:53:35,087 --> 00:53:36,754
- Good morning.
- Good morning.
977
00:53:36,755 --> 00:53:38,339
Fine day for a Boonta race.
978
00:53:38,340 --> 00:53:41,175
So I took him over
there and I showed him.
979
00:53:41,176 --> 00:53:44,721
"Okay, so this is...
There's Jabba's box here."
980
00:53:44,722 --> 00:53:46,848
We thought that one, okay,
should be about a third
981
00:53:46,849 --> 00:53:48,975
with a bunch of
people walking out.
982
00:53:48,976 --> 00:53:51,103
Touring him around
through the whole thing.
983
00:53:54,773 --> 00:53:58,818
Are you going to put maybe some
canisters, rocks and things?
984
00:53:58,819 --> 00:54:01,571
- Baggage and, you know, props.
- Yeah.
985
00:54:01,572 --> 00:54:04,532
And he just went,
"Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah.
986
00:54:04,533 --> 00:54:05,617
"Okay, great."
987
00:54:06,243 --> 00:54:07,243
Great.
988
00:54:07,244 --> 00:54:08,746
And he left.
989
00:54:09,538 --> 00:54:10,539
Okay.
990
00:54:11,206 --> 00:54:15,251
And about an hour later,
I got a call from Martin Smith,
991
00:54:15,252 --> 00:54:18,755
who was one of George's
editors on the picture
992
00:54:18,756 --> 00:54:22,175
and said, "Is that model still
set up? I want to come see it.
993
00:54:22,176 --> 00:54:24,177
"George was raving
about it."
994
00:54:24,178 --> 00:54:29,390
And, you know, I got no
indication of that from George.
995
00:54:29,391 --> 00:54:31,851
{\an8}George came to me
one day and said,
996
00:54:31,852 --> 00:54:34,645
{\an8}"All the work here surpassed
my wildest expectations."
997
00:54:34,646 --> 00:54:37,231
{\an8}And I said, "Did you tell the
crew that?" And he goes, "No."
998
00:54:37,232 --> 00:54:38,941
I said, "Let's go
tell the crew that."
999
00:54:43,238 --> 00:54:45,823
- This may be it. This is it.
- This may be it.
1000
00:54:45,824 --> 00:54:47,825
- This is it.
- This is it.
1001
00:54:47,826 --> 00:54:49,870
- I don't have any choice.
- Okay.
1002
00:54:50,162 --> 00:54:51,370
Just a formality.
1003
00:54:54,333 --> 00:54:56,083
Finished on time, on schedule.
1004
00:54:56,084 --> 00:54:59,253
Everything was done.
And we watched the film.
1005
00:54:59,254 --> 00:55:00,963
You know, we were amazed.
1006
00:55:00,964 --> 00:55:03,966
And the credits roll, you
know, for like ten minutes.
1007
00:55:03,967 --> 00:55:05,426
The lights came on,
1008
00:55:05,427 --> 00:55:09,388
and George just turned to us
and said, you know, "Thank you."
1009
00:55:09,389 --> 00:55:14,435
He was just so
genuinely proud of ILM,
1010
00:55:14,436 --> 00:55:16,771
um, that they had
been able to do
1011
00:55:16,772 --> 00:55:19,899
what he thought was
impossible to even ask for.
1012
00:55:21,860 --> 00:55:23,987
From Close Encounters
to Phantom Menace.
1013
00:55:25,364 --> 00:55:26,739
Great working with you.
1014
00:55:26,740 --> 00:55:32,203
The most fun I've ever had on a
film, really, since I started.
1015
00:55:32,204 --> 00:55:33,996
Well, I enjoyed it.
You guys pulled it off.
1016
00:55:33,997 --> 00:55:35,082
It is.
1017
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:38,709
It's hard for
me to be objective,
1018
00:55:38,710 --> 00:55:42,422
somebody who was like right
in the middle of this chaos.
1019
00:55:44,341 --> 00:55:45,883
Hey, Steve, go
ahead and move it.
1020
00:55:45,884 --> 00:55:49,929
I was very pleased that we
had survived the process.
1021
00:55:49,930 --> 00:55:52,098
Keep the pod shaking,
Jeff. Just shudder it around.
1022
00:55:52,099 --> 00:55:55,726
As massive a project
and as intimidating at it was
1023
00:55:55,727 --> 00:56:01,066
when we embarked on it, I felt
a real sense of accomplishment.
1024
00:56:06,238 --> 00:56:12,034
{\an8}We were all just so excited about
what we were able to accomplish
1025
00:56:12,035 --> 00:56:14,329
that we were just
excited to share that.
1026
00:56:24,172 --> 00:56:28,426
I spent two years helping the
Jedi Master himself, George Lucas,
1027
00:56:28,427 --> 00:56:29,885
create the movie that he wanted,
1028
00:56:29,886 --> 00:56:33,932
and I was incredibly proud of the
collective work that ILM had done.
1029
00:56:35,225 --> 00:56:38,269
Such a rush. I didn't even
get a chance to highlight.
1030
00:56:38,270 --> 00:56:40,813
You don't have to highlight.
1031
00:56:40,814 --> 00:56:43,817
New York Times
review. This is it?
1032
00:56:44,735 --> 00:56:50,741
We put so much time and so much energy
and so much care into this thing.
1033
00:56:53,076 --> 00:56:56,370
And you know, of course,
people were telling me that,
1034
00:56:56,371 --> 00:57:00,459
you know, prepare for your life to change,
and this is going to be transformational.
1035
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,380
But none of us knew what
really was going to happen.