1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,162 WWW.MY-SUBS.COM 1 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,840 Durham Police this morning are investigating the death 2 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,400 of a prominent city resident. 3 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,640 The officers were called early this morning to the home 4 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,920 of Nortel executive Kathleen Peterson, 5 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,560 who was found dead in her Forest Hills mansion, 6 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,360 after apparently falling down the stairs. 7 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,600 Kathleen Peterson's husband is novelist Michael Peterson, 8 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,160 well known for his books on the Vietnam War. 9 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,560 He is also a former columnist for the Durham Herald Sun, 10 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,600 and ran an unsuccessful mayoral campaign in 1999. 11 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,800 Durham Police have refused additional comment on the death. 12 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,920 Kathleen and I were in here watching a movie. 13 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,640 I had gone to Blockbusters and rented a video, 14 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,400 and we were watching American Sweethearts, 15 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,480 and I think it was probably around 11 o'clock 16 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,880 that the movie ended 17 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,400 and we took our glasses, left the dinner plates, 18 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,480 as a matter of fact, on there. 19 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,240 We would clean up the next day. Went into the kitchen. 20 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,040 We would talk for hours. Kathleen and I, at nighttime, 21 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,520 would talk two, three hours. Talk about the movie, or... 22 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,400 the kids or what we were going to do, 23 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,160 and we came in here. 24 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,160 I think there was... 25 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,040 I'm not sure. We probably had another bottle. 26 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:44,960 I know we were drinking two bottles that night. 27 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:46,600 It was a nice night. 28 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,680 I guess it was 55, 60 degrees. Very nice night. 29 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,440 Uh... and I had gone outside, 30 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,680 and we were talking here... 31 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:58,680 for... 32 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:03,200 a fair amount of time. 33 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,880 And then what we would usually do on a nice night, 34 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:07,360 we would go down to the pool, 35 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,920 which I always, you know, think is about the nicest place on the property. 36 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,760 I don't know if the chairs were like this or not, 37 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,200 but I mean, they were probably something like this, 38 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,720 and she was... We were both right here. 39 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,600 You know, the dogs would come over, 40 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,520 and we were just talking, 41 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,120 and finishing our drinks. 42 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,960 And then she said, "I got to go in, 43 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,040 because I've got the conference call in the morning." 44 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,000 And she started walking out that way, 45 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:54,920 and I stayed right here. 46 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,240 Don't think I said anything special to her. 47 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,560 Certainly not thinking this was the last time I'm going to see her. 48 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,280 I said good night, and I'll be up a little bit later, 49 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,800 and I stayed here, and she walked... 50 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:12,920 And the last I saw her was... 51 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,800 when I was sitting there, and she was just... 52 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,600 walking, walking here. 53 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,760 That's it. That was the last I saw Kathleen. 54 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,000 Alive. No. 55 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,560 She was alive when I found her, but... 56 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:30,440 barely. 57 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,080 Durham 9-1-1, what is your emergency? 58 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,920 - 1810 Cedar Street, please! - What's wrong? 59 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,160 My wife's had an accident. She's still breathing. 60 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,520 - What kind of accident? - She fell down the stairs. 61 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,720 - She's still breathing. Please come. - Is she conscious? 62 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,080 - What? - Is she conscious? 63 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,040 No, she's not conscious. Please! 64 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,320 - How many stairs did she fall down? - What? Huh? 65 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,000 - How many stairs? - The back stairs! 66 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:52,400 How many stairs? 67 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:55,400 Calm down, sir. 68 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,280 - Calm down. - 15, 20. I don't know. 69 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,240 Please! Get somebody here right away! 70 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,800 Okay, somebody's dispatching the ambulance while I ask you questions. 71 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,200 It's off of, uh... It's in Forest Hills. 72 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:08,680 Okay? Please, please! 73 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:11,520 It was just such a shock 74 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:13,840 when I drove into the driveway. 75 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,680 Seeing ambulances, just like, "Oh my God. 76 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,280 Did somebody have a heart attack?" Never in your wildest dreams, 77 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,560 would you think of anything... You wouldn't know what to think. 78 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,000 My first thought, of course, was my dad had a heart attack. 79 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:27,840 He's a little older than Kathleen. 80 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,200 So when I ran in there, and I saw my dad alive, 81 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:33,880 I was, quite honestly, a little relieved, thinking, "Oh, phew." 82 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:37,880 And then he was able to mutter the word, 83 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,320 something along the lines of, 84 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,560 "Kathleen, Kathleen! Oh, my God, this... this... 85 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:45,800 Oh, God, Kathleen." 86 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,960 And he was motioning in the direction of the staircase. 87 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:55,080 Sir, somebody else is dispatching the ambulance. 88 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,560 Okay, is she awake now? 89 00:05:58,640 --> 00:05:59,560 Hello? 90 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:02,880 Hello? 91 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:12,280 Oh, God. 92 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,200 I can vividly remember finding Kathleen, 93 00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:31,480 I can remember opening the door. I can remember calling 9-1-1. 94 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,400 I can remember... I particularly remember 95 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:37,680 Todd just... 96 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,400 holding me as tight as possible, I think to contain me, 97 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,280 and I can remember Heather, 98 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,640 the doctor, Ben's girlfriend, 99 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:50,360 taking my pulse. 100 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,000 And then I can remember, and it must have been very early, 101 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,760 while I was still in the kitchen, 102 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:59,120 that a cop was on me instantly, everywhere I went, 103 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:00,760 a policeman was there. 104 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,240 I went outside with Ben, 105 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,440 and a policeman was there, and I remember walking down there, 106 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,800 and a policeman was there. There was always a policeman with me. 107 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:15,320 I knew for a fact that 108 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,960 no way in this world my father ever would have hurt Kathleen. 109 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:20,840 But... 110 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,080 the realism of their investigating it did seem real. 111 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,080 While it was completely unfounded in my mind, 112 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,160 the way that they were behaving, 113 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,720 the way that they were barking orders at us, 114 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,360 restricting us from talking to one another, 115 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,400 they truly drove home the point that they were investigating this as a crime. 116 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,960 We came up Sycamore, 117 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,040 and you come up, and it kind of dead ends into our house, 118 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,360 and you just see the yellow tape across the whole house, 119 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,160 and it was horrible. It's like, our house. 120 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,240 You want to go home, the yellow tape is right there, 121 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:57,920 and you can't go home and... 122 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,080 It was the worst thing in the world and then, um... 123 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,800 I remember Dad actually explaining it to us, 124 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,440 and he was just like, he was in shock, kind of, 125 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,680 and he was kind of shaking, and he was like, "I didn't do it." 126 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:14,200 You know, "You have to believe me." 127 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,800 We're like, "Dad, we believe you," you know? 128 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,120 "This is horrible, like, how can we not believe you," you know? It's... 129 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,320 We didn't even know any details yet 130 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,320 and we were just like, "We believe you. We know it's not true, 131 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,600 and this is horrible," and it was just so upsetting. 132 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,960 I couldn't believe it, but it was so hard to think about that, 133 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:35,400 because at the same time, 134 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,680 we were thinking about our mother, you know? And... 135 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,440 it was... It was like two bombshells, I guess, hitting us. 136 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,280 When I first entered the house, 137 00:08:58,120 --> 00:08:59,400 I noticed... 138 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,600 what appeared to be two legs, 139 00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:08,240 just kinda sticking out of a doorway or hallway to my left, 140 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:13,600 and once I approached the victim, 141 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:15,800 there was just a... 142 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:17,600 very... 143 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,680 abundant amount of blood 144 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,000 on her, on the floor, on the walls, 145 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,040 that just was not... 146 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,000 consistent with somebody falling down the steps. 147 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,920 Well, obviously we can't know exactly what happened. 148 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,080 We have to piece together what we believe happened, 149 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,040 based on the circumstantial evidence that we've uncovered. 150 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,680 The only people that know are Mike Peterson and Kathleen Peterson, 151 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:04,800 and obviously, Mr. Peterson's not going to enlighten us about what he knows. 152 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,880 We believe the evidence, at least our evidence, is gonna show 153 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,040 that she was beaten, that she was stunned, 154 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:14,440 and was bleeding, 155 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,280 that she probably recovered, 156 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:19,720 and had... And struggled, 157 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,520 in the door frame with Mike Peterson to a degree, 158 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,280 and that he then had to bludgeon her... 159 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,440 on multiple occasions after that, and that she basically bled to death. 160 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:39,880 Live, local, up to the minute. This is ABC 11 Eyewitness News at six. 161 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,960 Michael Peterson's supporters can't believe he's charged 162 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,160 with the murder of his wife, Kathleen. 163 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,280 Kathleen was my life. 164 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,680 I whispered her name in my heart 1,000 times. 165 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:54,400 She is there, 166 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:56,400 but I can't stop crying. 167 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,720 But a special grand jury decided today 168 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:00,800 there was sufficient evidence gathered by police 169 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,040 to warrant a trial in this case. 170 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:04,760 First-degree murder. 171 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,320 Now, 11 days after frantically calling 9-1-1, 172 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,040 seeking help for his wife, 173 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,880 Michael Peterson must spend the night inside the Durham County Jail. 174 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,400 My mother and Mike had an absolutely loving relationship, 175 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,400 and there is no way that either of them 176 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,960 would ever wish any sort of harm on the other one. 177 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,440 Kathleen Peterson's biological daughter, Caitlin Atwater, 178 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,600 served as the main spokesperson for the Peterson family. 179 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:32,320 She stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Peterson's biological sons 180 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,880 and their sisters, adopted by Kathleen and Mike Peterson. 181 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,680 This is going to be the most unbelievably heartbreaking Christmas 182 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:42,320 we could ever imagine. 183 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:47,080 We've already lost one mother, now the state has taken away our father. 184 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:48,680 In my mind, you know, 185 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,920 if Mike finds Kathleen at the bottom of the stairs, 186 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,880 it's a reasonable assumption on his part that she fell down the stairs. 187 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,640 Peterson's attorney, David Rudolph, 188 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:01,120 says the authorities seemed to have jumped to conclusions about Kathleen's death. 189 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,400 For us, if in fact the police are right, that this was not a fall, 190 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,040 that should be the beginning of the investigation, 191 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:09,760 not the end of the investigation. 192 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:20,120 So far... 193 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,880 you know, what I've been saying to the Press, basically, is... 194 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:27,680 we think it's an accident, 195 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,840 but until our experts look at it, 196 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,480 we really can't say whether it's an accident or an intruder. 197 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:37,600 What we know for sure is it has nothing to do with Michael. 198 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,440 The benefits of the Intruder theory is it's simpler. 199 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,400 There's no debate over the forensics, for the most part. 200 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,760 The real problem with the Intruder theory is lack of evidence that there was one. 201 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,960 The intruder would then have to have a weapon with them, 202 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,200 capable inflicting these wounds, but not a knife or a gun... 203 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:55,440 - and take that weapon with them. - Right. 204 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,920 Mike clearly came and reacted to the scene. 205 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,080 - Right. - What we don't really seem to have 206 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,880 is shoe prints leaving the scene 207 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,800 that an intruder clearly wanted to get the hell out of there 208 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:11,200 It seems to me what the intruder versus accident theory really boils down to is... 209 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,120 what caused the lacerations on the head? 210 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,360 I agree. 211 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,320 I mean, injuries itself, to me, 212 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,920 they're just not a rage type injuries in comparison to... 213 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,680 With a rage, you'd have skull fractures. 214 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,360 You'd have not only that. 215 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,400 You'd have a lot of major lacerations in her face. 216 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,600 You know, I've never met anybody that just stood still 217 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,840 and waited to be hit on the head four times or seven times. 218 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,240 She'd have to stand still and let the back of her head 219 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,200 get beaten by an intruder without moving around. 220 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:44,120 It would be bizarre. 221 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,240 Everything that I've heard about Kathleen and learned about her 222 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,240 is she is a very feisty woman, 223 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,920 and there's no way that she's going to allow anybody... 224 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,800 to beat her up without fighting back, 225 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,320 and there are no signs whatsoever that she fought back. 226 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,760 I just don't see a crime of rage. 227 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,400 In all the experience I have, it's just not there. 228 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:29,680 Hey. 229 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,280 - Ron Guerette. - David Perlmutt. 230 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,280 - How are you doing? Good to see you. - Come on in. 231 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:35,560 All right, thank you. 232 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:41,440 You have breakfast already? 233 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,560 Would you like some bagels or orange juice? 234 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,080 No. Where's the coffee? 235 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:47,520 - You didn't make any? - Coffee's not made. 236 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,120 Oh, well, that's all right. 237 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:50,520 Is this the book here? 238 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,720 Yeah, that's the book that Mike and I co-wrote. 239 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,600 Charlie Two Shoes and the Marines of Love Company. 240 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:58,680 Yep. 241 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:02,680 - Came out in the late 1998. - Ninety-eight? 242 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,920 My understanding is the last time that you spoke with Kathleen 243 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,520 was a couple days before her death. Tell me about that. 244 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,040 It was really the night before. Essentially, the night before. 245 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,400 It was on the seventh of December, a Friday. 246 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,640 Friday evening, I had spoken with Stratton Leopold, 247 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,720 who is a producer in Hollywood, 248 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,880 and he... We had been talking to him for about a year 249 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,760 about the possibility of him optioning this book for a movie, 250 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,480 and he calls me that day, that afternoon, 251 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,760 and said that it was a done deal, everything was official, 252 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,640 and so I called Mike just after that. 253 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,680 It was probably about six o'clock that evening, 254 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:51,240 and Kathleen answered the phone, 255 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,240 and we spent maybe ten minutes talking on the phone. 256 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,920 Now, that night, you spoke to her about ten minutes. 257 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,560 Did you talk to Mike too that evening? 258 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,480 Yeah, she must have been talking in the kitchen, 259 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:03,320 uh... 260 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,400 because I said, "Well, is the old man there?" Mike was... 261 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,280 Kathleen and I are the same age, and Mike was about ten years older, 262 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,480 and she said, "Yeah, the old man is here, 263 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:20,920 but he's going to have to empty the dryer and mop the kitchen floor 264 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,600 before he comes to talk." 265 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,400 They always had a very playful way with each other, 266 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,480 and I could hear him chuckling in the background. 267 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:30,680 Did you hear any... 268 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,080 I mean, did there appear to be any pressure between each other? 269 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,360 Frustration, anything like that, between Mike and Kathleen on this night? 270 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,080 They were absolutely normal. 271 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:43,800 They were... 272 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:48,800 They were like I always saw them or heard them. 273 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,120 As I said, they were playful. 274 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:55,000 I heard... 275 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,280 I sensed no stress or tension between them. 276 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,160 Just absolutely normal. 277 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,120 And that's why it's such a stretch to think 278 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,360 that they went from this normal, 279 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:13,520 playful, back and forth between each other to... 280 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,440 something that is homicidal. 281 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,480 It just makes absolutely no sense to me. 282 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,680 It's inconceivable. 283 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,320 More autopsy photographs here. 284 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:40,560 That... 285 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,960 And it's impossible for me to believe, if that's the back of her head, 286 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:48,720 that that could be caused from... 287 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:50,560 a series of... 288 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:53,240 missteps... 289 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,040 or fall down 15 flights... 290 00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:57,960 I mean, 15 different stairs. 291 00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,920 I just... I can't see that happening. 292 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:01,640 This is... 293 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,240 Nor could the medical examiner. 294 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:05,680 And that's... 295 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,480 from my perspective, an impossibility. 296 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:12,560 As Mike indicates, 297 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,320 the medical examiner doesn't believe that it was possible, either. 298 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:20,840 That this had to occur from multiple inflictions of blunt-force trauma. 299 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,200 And all that with no skull fractures. 300 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,880 If they have a witness who can say that she went down the stairs 301 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,320 like a pogo stick, head-first... 302 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:30,880 GREG MEAD ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY 303 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:32,680 ...bouncing along, that might fit, 304 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,320 but somehow, I don't think that's the way people fall down stairs. 305 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,320 From my experience as an investigator and law enforcement officer, 306 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,200 it was just not consistent with a fall down a flight of steps, 307 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,080 and that's why I moved out 308 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,800 and went to obtain an application for a search warrant so quick. 309 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:53,040 You can't look at that and think that it's an accident. 310 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,560 And especially when you couple it with the fact that the first... 311 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,520 I guess you've heard the 9-1-1 tape, 312 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,000 but the first call in, she's supposedly still breathing. 313 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:09,160 Second call in, 15 minutes later or so, she's just quit breathing. 314 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,440 And yet, when the medical examiners or the EMTs arrived, 315 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,160 the blood was so dry, that they didn't even get any on them. 316 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,000 They didn't have to wear protective garments, 317 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,760 because the blood was already dry. She'd been there for hours, probably. 318 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,600 It just never occurred to Michael Peterson 319 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,640 that people wouldn't believe him when he said she fell down the stairs. 320 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,720 That's really what this is all about. 321 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,360 He thought he'd get away with it. 322 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,880 Live, local, up to the minute. 323 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,280 This is ABC 11 Eyewitness News at six. 324 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,760 Sir, quit being smart and answer the dadgum question. 325 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,560 In an occasionally tense bond hearing today, 326 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,840 Mike Peterson's son Todd verbally scuffled with the judge and District Attorney. 327 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,440 With shackled ankles and often with tears streaming down his face, 328 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,680 Mike Peterson sat by, emotionally listening to character witnesses 329 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:06,120 before the judge agreed to let him go on $850,000 bond. 330 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,480 Peterson left the Durham County Jail just after 6:00 p.m. 331 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,280 I really want to go home. I wanna see my kids, 332 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,280 and this is the first opportunity I've had now, to grieve for my wife, 333 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:18,840 and I really would like to have that time. 334 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,640 While his lawyers now turn to the facts of the case, 335 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,960 Peterson turns to his remaining family, 336 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,480 glancing at his first glimpse of sky outside the jail, 337 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,080 chased by cameras. Even back at home, 338 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,000 where friends arrived with groceries, Mike Peterson won't have time alone. 339 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,320 It always seemed to me 340 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,080 that the greatest threat to our freedoms 341 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,840 came not from people whocommitted crimes, 342 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:51,800 but from... 343 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,000 the way the government tends to respond to that, 344 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:03,200 and the way the government tends to take on power for itself 345 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,760 almost as though there's a vacuum that someone has to fill, 346 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,560 and the government's going to fill it. 347 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:12,000 And so, for me, 348 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,720 being in the role of a criminal defense lawyer 349 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,600 is being in the role of a person who can do at least a little bit 350 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,960 to hold back some of the government excesses, 351 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:29,520 to make sure that we don't lose our freedoms, 352 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,520 in an effort to protect them. 353 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,040 In Michael's case, 354 00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:46,680 there is no doubt in my mind that he is not guilty of this, 355 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,640 and so for me, being able to help him establish his innocence 356 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,920 is really what is moving me at this point. 357 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,360 Let me ask a question. 358 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,960 In the experience that you've seen, whether somebody was hit with something 359 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,360 versus falling on a blunt-type, in a blunt-type contact, 360 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,000 are these very consistent, 361 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,800 or are there aberrations here? 362 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:43,880 I would tend to consider the lacerations 363 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:49,640 as second choice in my thought of what occurred here. 364 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,520 The first choice is the presence of the bruises, 365 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,160 not the presence of the lacerations. 366 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,280 The presence of the lacerations is misleading. 367 00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:02,600 Because you see a whole lot of lacerations and you say, "Oh, my God!" 368 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,120 I did that too at the beginning. 369 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,360 I looked at that, and I think, "Oh, my God, that is terrible!" 370 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,680 This is boom, boom, boom, hit them on the head. 371 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:12,680 Right. 372 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,960 But when you keep looking at it, then you see things you didn't see before. 373 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,920 That's why I keep telling people, you know, 374 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,920 you should never look at a picture just one time. 375 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,560 You look at it on Monday, and then on Tuesday, 376 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,120 and then on Friday and then on Monday. 377 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,000 And every time you look at it, you see new stuff. 378 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:29,920 Yeah. 379 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,320 And so... 380 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:37,440 When, at the beginning, I thought this was an elongated object, 381 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,600 I think I've changed my mind on that. 382 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,120 That's reasonably consistent with a flat object, 383 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,000 meaning hitting the ground, because the curvature... 384 00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:47,920 Round, flat object. 385 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:53,440 This wound here had to have been at least two impacts. 386 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,880 This one here had to have been at least one impact. 387 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,440 This area here and this area here are split. 388 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,760 - Mm-hm. - They did not make any contact at all. 389 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,360 - And the impact occurred here. - Mm-hm. 390 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,520 And then it's like when you take a watermelon 391 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,280 and you throw it on the ground, you get tears in places 392 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:17,200 where it never touched the ground. 393 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,480 So we've got one impact here, 394 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,640 you've got one impact maybe here, and you've got one here. 395 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,320 When you say several impacts, are you talking about several times, 396 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,280 or could it be one point of contact? 397 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:29,880 Single contact at the same time. 398 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:30,800 Single, yeah. 399 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,000 Single occurrence, three points of contact. 400 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,160 Right. 401 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,360 You take the watermelon and you throw it on the ground, 402 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,320 and it's gonna be in a million pieces. 403 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:44,800 Okay, Werner here. 404 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:49,000 Faris, why don't you go in there? You need to be up close. 405 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,160 That's the place that we found the body. 406 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,680 What we didn't notice is in the moulding area, 407 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,000 you see the contact. 408 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,440 Faris, can you see that? And dripping. 409 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,280 That which is indicative of a liquid source of blood coming down. 410 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:13,680 More so, we see some spatter in this corner here, 411 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,920 which means active bleeding still. 412 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:21,760 The most interesting thing, we found hair tissue material on this moulding. 413 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,240 See some damage on the moulding. 414 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,120 Yeah, there's some fiber there. 415 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,480 I checked all the ceiling area. 416 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,680 No cast-off pattern. 417 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,000 Generally, if somebody beat up somebody, we see a cast-off pattern. 418 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:39,960 Sure. 419 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,480 And here, it's not. 420 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,040 So, however, if this weapon is too confined in place, 421 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,280 very small place... 422 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,000 It would be very hard to... 423 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,520 It would be hard to have that energy level. 424 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:54,520 Yeah. 425 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:03,000 How do you get your spatter coming up this wall here kind of behind this... 426 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,600 Okay, here, it could be a possibility of somebody coughing. 427 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:09,640 Ah. 428 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,040 So you're going to have a... 429 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:14,680 It's not inhaling, it's exhaling. 430 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,480 But if she's coughing up pure blood, like here, 431 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:23,920 wouldn't she have either a fracture of the base of the skull or an injury... 432 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:30,680 Maybe the blood comes from hair, face, comes onto nose or mouth. 433 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,200 So it's all external? 434 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,280 Just the wet head sponge thing. 435 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,720 It's not from internal bleeding. 436 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,400 - It's external getting into the system. - I understand. 437 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,920 What about... I mean, it could be anything there. 438 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,400 - It was in this position. - Not much higher. 439 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:05,960 Okay. 440 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,760 The autopsy photos are items one, two, three, four, five, six, 441 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,280 seven, eight, nine, ten, in terms of importance to the state. 442 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,080 And they're going to hit that really hard. 443 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:39,320 The power of those photos is, you know, they're visceral. 444 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,320 I mean, you look at them, and you know, 445 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,040 you don't need expert testimony to say, "Oh, she must have been beaten." 446 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:46,880 That's the thought that pops in your head. 447 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,840 Without explanation, it's hard to imagine, 448 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,280 how does somebody fall down the steps and end up with these kind of blows? 449 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,600 And you know, I think that really needs to be addressed 450 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,680 in terms of you know finding out, you know, what... 451 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,600 how do people, what do people just think on their own? 452 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,520 Then putting out the defense explanation of it. 453 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:15,320 Our experts are of the view that she probably fell 454 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,160 and knocked herself out in a first fall. 455 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,480 And with lots of bleeding coming from the head. 456 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,640 Where do they say she fell? 457 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,840 Probably on the second or third step going up. 458 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:33,800 You can see it here. 459 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,240 This is where the stair turns, 460 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,400 and you can see how narrow the steps are here. 461 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,240 Plus, you're going from the light, 462 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,320 a lighted hallway or a lighted kitchen, and this is very dark. 463 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,520 There's no lighting immediately over this. 464 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,800 There's only a light at the top of the stairs. 465 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,240 She had a .07 blood alcohol. 466 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,240 She's going from light to dark, 467 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,960 and you've got these stairs. 468 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,400 So Henry thinks she tripped on one of these stairs here, 469 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,960 - and hit her head, - Fell backwards? 470 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,960 fell backwards, and hit her head... 471 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,080 probably somewhere up here, 472 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,680 and then there's a little bit of blood that looks like sort of... 473 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,440 her head slid down or something, 474 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,480 and then hit her head again. 475 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,120 She fell backwards, hit her head against the doorframe... 476 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,880 Right, and then fell on the floor. 477 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,960 - Fell on the floor and hit her head again. - Right. 478 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,520 - So you got two hits. - That's what he thinks happened? 479 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,040 Yeah, and she's unconscious then, bleeding on the floor 480 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,160 for some period of time, 481 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,120 and then she comes to after some period of time, 482 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,080 and tries to get up and there's blood on the bottom of her feet. 483 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,240 And you know, in order for there to be blood on the bottom of her feet, 484 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,640 there needs to be a fair amount of blood on the floor 485 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,640 because it's not just a speck or two, it's... 486 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,480 - Right, it's completely coated? - Right. 487 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,080 And that she then fell again. 488 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,920 You know, obviously, if you're trying to get up in blood, 489 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,760 it's incredibly slippery. 490 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,520 And fell again. 491 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:15,440 Fell right there? 492 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,480 Right there. 493 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,360 Right. 494 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,080 Um... 495 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,240 Dave, we need to stop doing this in front of him. This is... 496 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,920 If today's his birthday, it's not the best day in the world to do it. 497 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,760 We really need to keep him out of this. 498 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:34,840 Okay. That's fine. 499 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,840 When I think of Kathleen, 500 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:47,720 what I remember, 501 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,480 unfortunately, is her dying in my arms. 502 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,680 That's always the overwhelming image. 503 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,760 If I look at something, I think, "Yeah, God, there was this funny thing," 504 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,880 or a picture on the refrigerator where she is in the Imperial Gardens in Tokyo 505 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,480 or there's so many things that always, if I stop and think, 506 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,400 not one thing comes up. Never one thing. 507 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,600 Or I might think, "Oh, that's a shining moment," 508 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,680 and then I'll see a picture of something else 509 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,880 or another incident might occur, and I'll be like, "There's that one," 510 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:26,280 so there's not one identifying thing with Kathleen, no. 511 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:27,520 Um... 512 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,160 The first people we have is Michael Peterson, 513 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:33,600 and... 514 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:35,960 Patty. 515 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,400 What year did they... 516 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,880 - What year were they married? - They were married in 1966. 517 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,280 Do you know if they got married in the States? 518 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,680 I think they're married in the States, because after they were married, 519 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,200 Mike went to Vietnam, 520 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,080 Patty went to Germany, she was a teacher in Germany. 521 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,440 So after Mike got out of Vietnam, 522 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,800 then he went to Germany. While they were in Germany, 523 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,480 they had two sons, the oldest is Clayton. 524 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,200 And the next child was Todd. 525 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,320 So they had two boys of their marriage. 526 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,480 And both of the boys were born in Germany? 527 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,080 Both boys born in Germany, and Clayton is the oldest one. 528 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:22,120 Okay. 529 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,200 Mike was a retired Marine captain, 530 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,680 and when he got to Germany, one of his better friends... 531 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,760 was George Ratliff, who was a captain in the Air Force. 532 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:37,880 And George... 533 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,480 Correction, Elizabeth worked with Patty at the college. 534 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,720 They both taught at the same college, 535 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,520 and that's how Patty and Elizabeth got together as good friends, 536 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,600 and then Mike and George, both being captains, 537 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:52,800 became good friends. 538 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,160 After... 539 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,600 George and Liz were married, they had two children. 540 00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,600 Margaret is the oldest daughter, 541 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,880 and Martha the youngest. 542 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,280 Shortly after the birth of Martha, 543 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,080 George died in 1983 in an invasion in Grenada. 544 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,800 Two years after George died, 545 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,440 Liz dies in 1985 while living in Germany. 546 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,080 At this time the entire Peterson family 547 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,600 and the Ratliff family are living in Germany. 548 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,760 During this period of time, after George and Liz die, 549 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,680 After Liz dies, Martha and Margaret move in 550 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,640 with Mike and Patty, Todd and Clayton, 551 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,840 because George and Elizabeth in their wills, separate wills, 552 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,360 wanted Mike and Patty to be the caretakers of their children. 553 00:34:55,240 --> 00:34:57,760 Mike and Patty started having problems, 554 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,360 and Mike came back to United States, in... 555 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,080 What year was it that he started... That he met Kathleen? 556 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,880 - He met Kathleen in 1986. - So he met her in 1986. 557 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,000 Kathleen had a daughter named Caitlin. 558 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:17,160 What year did... When did they move in together? 559 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,560 That was in 1989. 560 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:24,240 And that's when Martha and Margaret became... 561 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,000 one family under the same roof with Mike. 562 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,280 So Mike and Kathleen living together, and they had the three girls, 563 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,760 and there was moving back and forth, 564 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:42,880 and eventually, Todd and Clayton moved in 565 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,440 with Mike and Kathleen in Durham, North Carolina. 566 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,800 So how old were each one of the kids at the time of Kathleen's death in 2001? 567 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,960 Her daughter, Caitlin, was 19. 568 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,360 Margaret, the oldest, was 20. 569 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:03,120 The baby, Martha, was 18. 570 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,960 Clayton was 27, 571 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,880 and Todd was 25, 572 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:12,720 when Kathleen died. 573 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,800 - And that was in the year 2001? - 2001. 574 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,360 After your mother died, your real mother died... 575 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,920 - who took care of you? - Um... 576 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:12,000 My dad right now, Michael Peterson and his wife, Patty. 577 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,200 Your dad died before your mother did, right? 578 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,160 Yes. 579 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,080 And you were probably still a baby in your mother's womb, 580 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,200 weren't you not, at that time? Or were you born? 581 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,080 No, I was about six months old. 582 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:25,480 Six months old? 583 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,200 How old were you and your mom died? 584 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,960 I was... 18. 585 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:32,960 Eighteen? 586 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:34,720 Months? 587 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:36,880 Oh, my birth mom. I'm sorry. 588 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,360 Your birth mom. I'm sorry. 589 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:41,360 I think I was... 590 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,720 - a little over a year. - Okay. 591 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,080 So you have very little memory. 592 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,800 Yeah, the only memory I have is what people have told me. 593 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,400 - So I don't have memories. - Okay, and... 594 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,280 How did you start referring to Kathleen when you moved in the house with her? 595 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,640 Well, we called her Kathleen for a good while, 596 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:01,640 and... 597 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,400 I started calling her mom when... 598 00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:09,520 I would say it was about, I was in... 599 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,360 a freshman in high school. 600 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,320 So about five years ago. 601 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,320 And that's when I started to, 602 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,280 because I realized how much she was doing for us. 603 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,880 Tell me about the relationship between Mike and Kathleen. 604 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,840 I mean, refer to them as Mom and Dad. I don't want to discourage you in that, 605 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,160 now that we know who you're talking about, you know? 606 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,520 Just tell me about the relationship between your mom and dad. 607 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:38,240 Well, it was... 608 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,600 It was wonderful. I mean, they were... 609 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:44,760 so happy that last year. 610 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,880 They were just, I don't know, there was... 611 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,480 It was beautiful. They were just really happy. 612 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,200 They loved each other. They... 613 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,480 didn't ever fight usually, and... 614 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,760 they just took so much joy in other's presence. 615 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,360 I mean, we would laugh all the time. 616 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,480 They would just come home and make dinner, 617 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,480 and you know, drink some wine or something, 618 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,000 and it was just beautiful 619 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,200 because we would just end up laughing the whole night, 620 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,400 and I would just talk to mom forever. 621 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,200 I don't know, it was really beautiful. 622 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:16,880 I never saw any problems. 623 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:18,680 Now, you say "usually." 624 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,640 - Did I? - At one point, you did. 625 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,480 Did you ever see any... 626 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,840 any problems between the two of them? 627 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,800 Any... were there ever any discussions? 628 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,640 No, the only problems were, Mom would get frustrated at Dad 629 00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:38,800 for not coming home from the gym on time, 630 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,840 and that was just because of dinner, but that always ended with everybody... 631 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,040 Just, I mean that was the only problem, 632 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,320 but it was really such a small problem that it was almost a joke. 633 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,960 Do you think if there would have been any problems 634 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,280 between her and your dad, that she would have... 635 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,240 maybe not necessarily told you the problems, 636 00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:58,680 but she would've let you know 637 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,600 that Mike was doing something she doesn't appreciate? 638 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,880 Yeah. She definitely would have. 639 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,160 She was always straightforward with us. 640 00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:12,200 I mean, if there was ever, like, a problem in the family, 641 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,440 you know, between, like, any of us, or between... 642 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,680 like, Martha and Dad, you know, 643 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,160 like, Dad hates Martha's haircut or something, or her hair color. 644 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:23,200 You know, I mean, we had family dinner every night, 645 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,480 so it was really hard not to bring that up in conversation. 646 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,440 I mean... no. 647 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,320 Like, we were a very open family. 648 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,960 I always felt like I could talk about anything, 649 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,360 and I know that Mom talked about everything with us, too. 650 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,600 How about the relationship between Kathleen and your dad? 651 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:46,080 It was always very strong. I was... 652 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,360 kind of jealous of it and happy for him, 653 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,720 because his relationship with my mom had never been romantic 654 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,520 or intimate or anything like that, you know, very platonic. 655 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,320 And to see him happy... 656 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,760 with a woman, with Kathleen, 657 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,160 the two of them were just really good together. 658 00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:05,960 They just connected on a different plane. 659 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,000 And... 660 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,560 was there ever a time where your dad would get really, 661 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,120 really mad at you 662 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,400 to where he showed his temper, or anything like that? 663 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,880 I mean that, to me, that'd have been probably the worst time. 664 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,680 That wasn't, actually. 665 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:27,880 I mean, it might have been for other things. 666 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,040 Lord knows, I've done stupid things. 667 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:31,920 Wrecked his car and things like that. 668 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,120 Did he ever hit you? 669 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:34,200 Yeah. 670 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:35,960 - You know. - Spank you or hit you? 671 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,160 Um... 672 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:39,440 I guess mostly spanking. 673 00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:45,240 You know, sometimes he'd crack my brother's head together. 674 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,320 I mean, this is when we were younger. 675 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:49,040 I don't know. 676 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,880 Not really crack your heads, just bang your heads together? 677 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:52,800 Yeah. 678 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:55,880 Have you ever seen your dad... 679 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,760 violent towards anybody? 680 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,040 Uh... 681 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,160 No, he disciplined us as children, but that's... 682 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:06,760 parental discipline. 683 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:07,840 Has he ever hit you? 684 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,480 He spanked us when we were children, but... 685 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,240 I don't have a friend who wasn't spanked. 686 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,280 As far as actual aggressive behavior, never. 687 00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:20,840 Never in his... to another... 688 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:27,600 I'll say, non-child of his, meaning an adult, a partner... 689 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,800 a wife... nothing, nothing. 690 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,880 Even when he and my birth mother... 691 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,680 would have disagreements, nothing. 692 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,000 It was always my dad to kind of chuckle and walk off. 693 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,040 He never, ever became aggressive in the slightest sense. 694 00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:16,720 Mike? 695 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:40,120 Probably about here. 696 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,040 - Around here? - I'm guessing about here. 697 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,960 This would be very close to where we were. 698 00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:46,160 Okay. 699 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:49,720 Yeah, because she came over, she smoked cigarettes, 700 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,800 she threw the cigarettes out in there. 701 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,440 - There may have been another chair here. - That's alright. Okay. 702 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,560 - But right about here. - Okay, that's fine. 703 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,280 - Alright, that's all I need. Okay. - This is close enough. 704 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:02,320 Tell Todd to hold off until we can get the dogs out here, alright? 705 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:06,320 Slow down, slow down. 706 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,040 And you know to... 707 00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:13,640 forward this play button, 708 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,800 and soon as you push it, step back out of the way. 709 00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:21,200 - I can stand in the kitchen if you like. - Okay. 710 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,960 'Cause I want to have a human witness in addition to the tape recording. 711 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,200 - Make sure everything else is closed up. - Okay. 712 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,600 I can testify that his doors are well-fitted. 713 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:46,520 You ready? 714 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,960 Hey! Help! Somebody, help! 715 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,520 Help! 716 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,160 Somebody, anybody! Help me! 717 00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:05,200 Help me! Please help me! 718 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,920 Help! Help! 719 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,040 Help! 720 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,240 Help me! Help! 721 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,600 Please, help me! 722 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,000 Help! 723 00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:54,040 I need help! Anybody, help me! 724 00:45:54,600 --> 00:46:00,480 Help! Somebody, please! Help me! 725 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,160 I need help!