1 00:00:41,765 --> 00:00:45,666 ♪ Yeah baby it's a mystery 2 00:00:45,666 --> 00:00:49,877 ♪ The things you do to yourself ♪ 3 00:00:49,877 --> 00:00:53,846 ♪ Night time, it's a mystery 4 00:00:53,846 --> 00:00:58,817 ♪ You're all by yourself 5 00:01:02,269 --> 00:01:03,960 ♪ You cry tears 6 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:08,965 ♪ You crawl out 7 00:01:10,622 --> 00:01:14,557 ♪ Get paid your future's made 8 00:01:14,557 --> 00:01:19,562 ♪ But your life, it goes not at all ♪ 9 00:01:22,392 --> 00:01:26,258 ♪ Ten ten's got no bright light shining ♪ 10 00:01:26,258 --> 00:01:30,469 ♪ Nowhere honesty 11 00:01:30,469 --> 00:01:35,474 ♪ Ten ten's got your life now baby ♪ 12 00:01:36,855 --> 00:01:39,685 ♪ Nowhere honesty 13 00:01:44,311 --> 00:01:48,073 - Hey Kathleen, it's Stiv calling from Paris. 14 00:01:48,073 --> 00:01:49,592 Why don't you phone me back? 15 00:01:49,592 --> 00:01:51,766 Just like to say hello. 16 00:01:51,766 --> 00:01:52,871 Give me a call back. 17 00:01:52,871 --> 00:01:54,666 I'm at 3-3-1 18 00:01:55,598 --> 00:01:57,427 4-0-2-6, 19 00:01:57,427 --> 00:02:00,465 7-1-0-1, in Paris, bye. 20 00:02:19,691 --> 00:02:21,520 - Yes, he was happy. 21 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:22,349 Definitely happy. 22 00:02:23,764 --> 00:02:25,904 They were walking the streets of the city hand in hand, 23 00:02:25,904 --> 00:02:27,077 hand in hand. 24 00:02:27,077 --> 00:02:28,838 Fuck, hand-in-hand. 25 00:02:28,838 --> 00:02:29,942 - But she was cool. 26 00:02:29,942 --> 00:02:31,081 I think they were very, 27 00:02:31,081 --> 00:02:33,946 I think during the session, 28 00:02:33,946 --> 00:02:38,261 she read like Edgar Allen Poe, by flashlight. 29 00:02:38,261 --> 00:02:40,401 She was a real goth chick. 30 00:02:42,334 --> 00:02:44,992 I liked them, I though they were a good couple. 31 00:02:44,992 --> 00:02:46,752 - She made it worthwhile. 32 00:02:46,752 --> 00:02:47,615 And that's what it's all about. 33 00:02:47,615 --> 00:02:48,616 I finally found love. 34 00:02:50,618 --> 00:02:53,173 When you love someone, you can love yourself. 35 00:02:53,173 --> 00:02:55,175 - They were into bondage I think. 36 00:02:55,175 --> 00:02:57,556 They gave me a lot of information, 37 00:02:58,454 --> 00:03:00,421 about Eric Stanton, 38 00:03:01,457 --> 00:03:02,285 the drawer. 39 00:03:05,150 --> 00:03:08,774 They were into that culture, for sure. 40 00:03:09,637 --> 00:03:11,191 - Yeah, he liked Elvira. 41 00:03:11,191 --> 00:03:12,606 If he had his way, 42 00:03:12,606 --> 00:03:14,504 the whole band would have been done up in PVC, 43 00:03:14,504 --> 00:03:17,542 and wearing women's stilettos, and stuff, 44 00:03:17,542 --> 00:03:19,302 but that was just him. 45 00:03:19,302 --> 00:03:21,062 Just mainly for the look of things. 46 00:03:22,236 --> 00:03:24,445 - It was the next stage of his life, 47 00:03:24,445 --> 00:03:25,688 so he was finding himself, 48 00:03:25,688 --> 00:03:29,209 and he was incredibly happy with Caroline. 49 00:03:29,209 --> 00:03:32,004 They absolutely adored each other. 50 00:03:32,004 --> 00:03:36,181 They had a flat in central Paris, 51 00:03:36,181 --> 00:03:40,254 and they seemed to really take to Parisian life, as well. 52 00:03:41,428 --> 00:03:42,877 - It was strange to know someone 53 00:03:42,877 --> 00:03:44,085 for such a short time, 54 00:03:44,085 --> 00:03:45,846 yet you felt like you knew them longer. 55 00:03:45,846 --> 00:03:50,540 So the first time really was the party on the boat. 56 00:03:50,540 --> 00:03:52,784 So you're going to his 40th birthday party 57 00:03:52,784 --> 00:03:54,510 on the River Seine, 58 00:03:54,510 --> 00:03:56,374 and we had a great time. 59 00:03:56,374 --> 00:03:57,892 It was great. 60 00:03:57,892 --> 00:04:00,101 There was a little piano on the boat and everything. 61 00:04:00,101 --> 00:04:02,414 There was only seven or eight of us. 62 00:04:02,414 --> 00:04:04,244 Myself and Jim, 63 00:04:04,244 --> 00:04:05,452 who is the singer in the Hypnotics, 64 00:04:05,452 --> 00:04:08,248 and that was our band that we had started, 65 00:04:08,248 --> 00:04:10,250 that Stiv was championing really. 66 00:04:10,250 --> 00:04:12,804 He was really quite righteous 67 00:04:12,804 --> 00:04:14,564 in championing us and, 68 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,326 take the torch the baton forward 69 00:04:17,326 --> 00:04:18,534 for rock and roll, 70 00:04:18,534 --> 00:04:20,467 and you get to hang out in Paris, 71 00:04:20,467 --> 00:04:22,986 at Carol's place, Stiv and Carol's place, 72 00:04:22,986 --> 00:04:25,057 their penthouse flat-type thing, 73 00:04:25,057 --> 00:04:26,542 where you could sit on the roof 74 00:04:26,542 --> 00:04:28,854 and see the view of Paris and the Eiffel Tower, 75 00:04:28,854 --> 00:04:30,856 it was a beautiful flat. 76 00:04:30,856 --> 00:04:34,239 And we'd hang there and watch AC/DC videos and things, 77 00:04:34,239 --> 00:04:37,691 and Stiv had many plans forwards, going forwards. 78 00:04:37,691 --> 00:04:39,555 Many plans, I mean he was only 40. 79 00:04:39,555 --> 00:04:41,488 We went to his 40th birthday party. 80 00:04:42,972 --> 00:04:44,525 - Paris influenced people, you know, 81 00:04:44,525 --> 00:04:47,632 I never wrote before I arrived in Paris. 82 00:04:47,632 --> 00:04:49,323 It's a city, but that's up to you. 83 00:04:50,186 --> 00:04:52,361 To me, been more, 84 00:04:53,293 --> 00:04:54,397 concentrated, 85 00:04:56,917 --> 00:05:00,300 if I may say, spiritual, not in, 86 00:05:00,300 --> 00:05:02,163 God, and, no. 87 00:05:02,163 --> 00:05:03,579 More thinking about life, 88 00:05:03,579 --> 00:05:06,892 about creating different stuff. 89 00:05:06,892 --> 00:05:09,481 ♪ Let's rock it out 90 00:05:09,481 --> 00:05:11,863 ♪ Here stands on my right 91 00:05:11,863 --> 00:05:14,590 - We had the video clip with our band, Jad Wio, 92 00:05:15,763 --> 00:05:17,247 with a song called Priscilla. 93 00:05:20,906 --> 00:05:21,873 He said, oh, 94 00:05:23,115 --> 00:05:25,325 we all like this video clip. 95 00:05:28,673 --> 00:05:29,915 I like the song too. 96 00:05:34,334 --> 00:05:36,439 Once if you play in Paris, 97 00:05:36,439 --> 00:05:38,303 I would like to play with you. 98 00:05:43,481 --> 00:05:46,242 - One, two, one, two, three! 99 00:05:59,117 --> 00:06:01,809 ♪ Here stands on my right 100 00:06:01,809 --> 00:06:04,709 ♪ The glamorous Priscilla 101 00:06:04,709 --> 00:06:07,677 ♪ She's the queen of escape 102 00:06:07,677 --> 00:06:10,887 ♪ She plays with dangerous fate ♪ 103 00:06:10,887 --> 00:06:13,821 ♪ Here stands on my left 104 00:06:13,821 --> 00:06:16,859 ♪ The vicious Leona 105 00:06:16,859 --> 00:06:20,034 ♪ She's the animal trainer 106 00:06:20,034 --> 00:06:23,866 ♪ Come on in you can see them 107 00:07:05,908 --> 00:07:08,842 - It was really after the Sputnik had finished 108 00:07:08,842 --> 00:07:11,051 in the very late 80's. 109 00:07:11,051 --> 00:07:12,846 We were all looking around for the next thing to do, 110 00:07:12,846 --> 00:07:14,468 and Tony said, look Stiv really 111 00:07:14,468 --> 00:07:15,435 wants something to work with, 112 00:07:15,435 --> 00:07:17,160 and to write some songs with. 113 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,198 So Tony and I tried writing a couple of numbers for Stiv, 114 00:07:20,198 --> 00:07:22,580 and that's where we really got to know him better, 115 00:07:22,580 --> 00:07:24,685 and hung out a bit more. 116 00:07:24,685 --> 00:07:28,344 And eventually I went to Paris to make the record, 117 00:07:28,344 --> 00:07:33,349 which became The Last Race with Stiv, in 1990. 118 00:07:33,349 --> 00:07:36,801 - I remember, was it Sounds or Melody Maker, 119 00:07:36,801 --> 00:07:39,148 Carol Clark ran a story about 120 00:07:39,148 --> 00:07:42,565 the new New Lords of the New Church. 121 00:07:42,565 --> 00:07:46,224 Okay, because Stiv ostensibly 122 00:07:46,224 --> 00:07:48,951 was gonna get a new band together, 123 00:07:48,951 --> 00:07:53,956 which was Vom who'd been in Doctor and the Medics, 124 00:07:55,371 --> 00:07:59,962 and Kris Dollimore, who had been in The Godfathers, 125 00:08:01,411 --> 00:08:03,690 and he was gonna have Neil X on board, to produce as well, 126 00:08:03,690 --> 00:08:05,208 but it was gonna be a supergroup, 127 00:08:05,208 --> 00:08:06,796 so over from New York, 128 00:08:06,796 --> 00:08:10,351 we were gonna have Dee Dee on bass, 129 00:08:10,351 --> 00:08:13,838 and Johnny playing obviously, guitar. 130 00:08:13,838 --> 00:08:16,668 That was gonna be Stiv's dream team 131 00:08:16,668 --> 00:08:18,394 for the Paris sessions. 132 00:08:18,394 --> 00:08:20,465 - Dee Dee was all psyched up about that, 133 00:08:20,465 --> 00:08:23,882 and yeah let's do a record. 134 00:08:23,882 --> 00:08:27,127 So, it was all planned for Paris. 135 00:08:27,127 --> 00:08:31,580 But then we had the slight problem with Dee Dee, 136 00:08:31,580 --> 00:08:32,822 flipping out a bit. 137 00:08:34,030 --> 00:08:37,827 - He stayed for some with Stiv and Carol, 138 00:08:37,827 --> 00:08:40,416 and sometime Johnny, he left his gear over there, 139 00:08:40,416 --> 00:08:43,661 so in a moment he through a tantrum. 140 00:08:43,661 --> 00:08:46,215 He through liquid on the pickups 141 00:08:46,215 --> 00:08:49,425 of Johnny's Gibson Les Paul Junior, and he burned it. 142 00:08:49,425 --> 00:08:53,533 - He had destroyed Johnny's guitar, 143 00:08:53,533 --> 00:08:57,847 and poured bleach all over Johnny's clothing, 144 00:08:57,847 --> 00:09:00,194 and Johnny obviously got freaked out 145 00:09:00,194 --> 00:09:03,784 and ran away from Stiv's apartment. 146 00:09:03,784 --> 00:09:07,305 - Stiv was really really straight, 147 00:09:07,305 --> 00:09:08,720 for this record. 148 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,377 He was really on it, it was his, 149 00:09:11,516 --> 00:09:15,278 it was his solo album that was gonna 150 00:09:15,278 --> 00:09:17,280 make or break everything, I think. 151 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:18,523 - We went in, Stiv said, 152 00:09:18,523 --> 00:09:20,594 here's a couple of songs I want to try. 153 00:09:20,594 --> 00:09:22,734 We cut them in the first couple of hours. 154 00:09:22,734 --> 00:09:24,115 So he got us out, and he said, 155 00:09:24,115 --> 00:09:26,669 I've got this other one I'd like to learn, 156 00:09:26,669 --> 00:09:28,188 played us a bunch of songs 157 00:09:28,188 --> 00:09:30,017 which he'd had in mind for years, I guess. 158 00:09:30,017 --> 00:09:31,881 I've always wanted to record this. 159 00:09:31,881 --> 00:09:34,435 And we just went through and recorded everything. 160 00:09:53,938 --> 00:09:56,181 - He came from Girard, Ohio, 161 00:09:56,181 --> 00:09:58,632 which is a suburb of Youngstown, 162 00:09:58,632 --> 00:10:02,084 which is the biggest town of rock and roll Cleveland, 163 00:10:02,084 --> 00:10:04,396 close to that, so they all had this like, 164 00:10:04,396 --> 00:10:05,812 it's old steel town. 165 00:10:05,812 --> 00:10:09,712 - I met his parents a number of times. 166 00:10:09,712 --> 00:10:12,335 He'd lived in what was a permanent 167 00:10:14,130 --> 00:10:16,029 like a trailer home. 168 00:10:16,029 --> 00:10:18,618 And they were very 169 00:10:18,618 --> 00:10:22,414 middle American, I would say, typical from Ohio. 170 00:10:22,414 --> 00:10:25,694 His dad was amazing, very funny, just like Stiv. 171 00:10:25,694 --> 00:10:28,628 And his mom was the traditional housewife. 172 00:10:28,628 --> 00:10:30,457 - His parents were like total opposites, 173 00:10:30,457 --> 00:10:33,149 you didn't know what attracted them to each other. 174 00:10:33,149 --> 00:10:34,530 And they really represented 175 00:10:34,530 --> 00:10:37,119 Stiv's bad side and his good side. 176 00:10:37,119 --> 00:10:40,881 But his dad was like a joker, a practical joker. 177 00:10:40,881 --> 00:10:43,228 His name was Steve Bator. 178 00:10:43,228 --> 00:10:45,645 He sang in a polka band, 179 00:10:45,645 --> 00:10:47,267 as the front man. 180 00:10:47,267 --> 00:10:50,408 He was just a really really really sweet guy, 181 00:10:50,408 --> 00:10:53,653 and as I got to know them I went over once, 182 00:10:53,653 --> 00:10:56,448 to their house, and they were showing me photos of Stiv, 183 00:10:57,346 --> 00:10:59,244 growing up as a child, 184 00:10:59,244 --> 00:11:03,870 and one photo, this black and white vintage photo, 185 00:11:03,870 --> 00:11:07,667 you see Stiv, with his pants completely down, 186 00:11:09,047 --> 00:11:11,394 and his mother's trying desperately to pull them up, 187 00:11:11,394 --> 00:11:13,707 and the neighbor children are running up 188 00:11:13,707 --> 00:11:16,158 but they're behind them in terror. 189 00:11:16,158 --> 00:11:17,331 And that was the kind of pictures 190 00:11:17,331 --> 00:11:18,816 that were in his family album. 191 00:11:19,989 --> 00:11:21,750 I always got a very strong impression 192 00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:24,994 that his dad was really happy for his career choice, 193 00:11:24,994 --> 00:11:26,099 and his mother wasn't. 194 00:11:27,445 --> 00:11:30,034 - His idols were the three stooges. 195 00:11:30,034 --> 00:11:33,140 And they would spiteful things to each other, 196 00:11:33,140 --> 00:11:36,178 and Stiv would make up lies and stuff like that, 197 00:11:36,178 --> 00:11:38,042 and then if you sussed him out, 198 00:11:38,042 --> 00:11:40,941 he'd go, pricked you, pricked you. 199 00:11:40,941 --> 00:11:42,702 And he'd fooled you, you know. 200 00:11:42,702 --> 00:11:45,601 - Even at that age I could tell he was something special. 201 00:11:45,601 --> 00:11:46,809 He was gonna go places. 202 00:11:46,809 --> 00:11:48,777 He was just that kind of a character, 203 00:11:48,777 --> 00:11:50,813 very magnetic personality, 204 00:11:50,813 --> 00:11:53,333 people were just drawn to him, like that. 205 00:11:53,333 --> 00:11:56,232 Even when I brought him on the stage for the first time, 206 00:11:56,232 --> 00:11:59,166 it was in the late 60's, in Canfield, Ohio. 207 00:11:59,166 --> 00:12:00,789 It was an outdoor concert, 208 00:12:00,789 --> 00:12:02,618 and I got a pickup ad and just brought him up. 209 00:12:02,618 --> 00:12:04,102 I'd never seen him play before. 210 00:12:04,102 --> 00:12:05,932 But he had one remarkable talent. 211 00:12:05,932 --> 00:12:08,175 He could play a harmonica, 212 00:12:08,175 --> 00:12:10,350 but he didn't have a harmonica. 213 00:12:10,350 --> 00:12:11,489 He would cup his hands, 214 00:12:13,387 --> 00:12:15,527 and do this blues stuff and it was amazing. 215 00:12:25,745 --> 00:12:28,506 - Stiv Bators and Mother Goose, they were crazy. 216 00:12:28,506 --> 00:12:30,439 I met 'em, well I saw them, 217 00:12:30,439 --> 00:12:32,510 I encountered them, first time, Mother Goose, 218 00:12:32,510 --> 00:12:34,477 at my high school, 219 00:12:34,477 --> 00:12:37,722 after a football game they used to have dances for the kids. 220 00:12:37,722 --> 00:12:40,725 And one night they showed up, 221 00:12:40,725 --> 00:12:42,762 the band Mother Goose showed up. 222 00:12:42,762 --> 00:12:44,660 And so me and my buddies from our band 223 00:12:44,660 --> 00:12:45,868 went in there to check it out. 224 00:12:45,868 --> 00:12:47,905 We'd always check out the other bands, 225 00:12:47,905 --> 00:12:50,735 and we see Stiv and these guys, 226 00:12:50,735 --> 00:12:55,188 torn jeans, torn t-shirts, long hair, 227 00:12:55,188 --> 00:12:57,777 come out, it was like, whoa. 228 00:12:57,777 --> 00:13:02,091 And they start breaking into like Rolling Stones, 229 00:13:02,091 --> 00:13:05,785 Iggy Pop, Sonics, 230 00:13:05,785 --> 00:13:08,788 all kind of crazy cover tunes, rock and roll. 231 00:13:08,788 --> 00:13:11,238 Stiv was rolling around on the floor, 232 00:13:11,238 --> 00:13:14,448 spitting, cursing. 233 00:13:14,448 --> 00:13:16,968 He was into a lot of different stuff. 234 00:13:16,968 --> 00:13:18,901 Well he liked the theatrics of Iggy, 235 00:13:18,901 --> 00:13:20,592 and Alice Cooper, especially. 236 00:13:20,592 --> 00:13:22,042 Those were his favorites. 237 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,129 And then he invited me to his house, 238 00:13:40,129 --> 00:13:42,614 his gothic mansion, a week later. 239 00:13:42,614 --> 00:13:44,893 So me and my friends showed up, 240 00:13:44,893 --> 00:13:48,034 and there was a full-on party going on, 241 00:13:48,034 --> 00:13:49,690 the place full of people. 242 00:13:50,830 --> 00:13:52,832 I'm sure there was a lot of stuff going on. 243 00:13:52,832 --> 00:13:57,767 Stiv comes flying down the steps of this mansion, 244 00:13:57,767 --> 00:14:00,770 with a road flare, completely naked, 245 00:14:00,770 --> 00:14:03,670 starts blasting out all this weird poetry, 246 00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:07,294 turns around, runs upstairs, and that's it. 247 00:14:07,294 --> 00:14:10,539 So that was like one of my first experiences with Stiv. 248 00:14:11,885 --> 00:14:13,991 The Rockin' Tomatoes were formed, 249 00:14:13,991 --> 00:14:17,926 after Stiv's final incarnation of the Mother Goose band, 250 00:14:17,926 --> 00:14:21,446 which was an institution around Youngstown for a while. 251 00:14:21,446 --> 00:14:23,483 He'd had enough of the Youngstown scene. 252 00:14:23,483 --> 00:14:26,762 He was living out in a place called, Rogers, Ohio. 253 00:14:26,762 --> 00:14:29,730 He rented a room in this house, from these bikers. 254 00:14:29,730 --> 00:14:32,526 And every time Stiv would leave his room, 255 00:14:32,526 --> 00:14:34,045 and go out, we were out on the road, 256 00:14:34,045 --> 00:14:35,564 the bikers and the girlfriends 257 00:14:35,564 --> 00:14:38,498 would go into his room, and steal his clothes, 258 00:14:38,498 --> 00:14:40,224 the girls would wear 'em. 259 00:14:40,224 --> 00:14:42,467 So he had had enough, and just one day he said, 260 00:14:42,467 --> 00:14:43,952 I'm done with this whole thing. 261 00:14:43,952 --> 00:14:46,644 I'm moving to Cleveland, I'm going to the big city. 262 00:14:46,644 --> 00:14:49,129 - Cleveland had a lot of clubs, 263 00:14:49,129 --> 00:14:50,890 a lot of bands, 264 00:14:50,890 --> 00:14:52,512 and there was a lot of places to play, 265 00:14:52,512 --> 00:14:53,754 if you were a cover band. 266 00:14:55,273 --> 00:14:56,585 They really didn't care too much 267 00:14:56,585 --> 00:14:57,827 if you were an original band. 268 00:14:57,827 --> 00:14:59,899 Blue Ash, we lucked out, or The Raspberries, 269 00:14:59,899 --> 00:15:01,693 because we had an album out, 270 00:15:01,693 --> 00:15:04,041 so we could go and get by. 271 00:15:05,180 --> 00:15:08,183 - I'm not outgoing with people I don't know, 272 00:15:08,183 --> 00:15:10,910 but turned out he was, and he came over to me, 273 00:15:11,980 --> 00:15:13,705 and he introduced himself, 274 00:15:13,705 --> 00:15:17,640 and he was dressing according to his name at the time. 275 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,299 He first introduced himself to me as Stivian Scarlet. 276 00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:24,406 And true to his name, 277 00:15:24,406 --> 00:15:28,686 he was dressed in scarlet from head to toe. 278 00:15:28,686 --> 00:15:29,894 And then to top it all off, 279 00:15:29,894 --> 00:15:32,414 he had this died mane of black hair, 280 00:15:32,414 --> 00:15:33,760 obviously a Thunders fan, 281 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,728 I picked that up before he said a word. 282 00:15:36,728 --> 00:15:39,524 - And I went and saw the Stooges, in Detroit. 283 00:15:41,043 --> 00:15:42,976 That's when I realized, 284 00:15:42,976 --> 00:15:45,841 rock and roll has nothing to do about music. 285 00:15:45,841 --> 00:15:46,980 It's just attitude, 286 00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:48,292 and social change. 287 00:15:48,292 --> 00:15:49,949 - And how tight your pants are. 288 00:15:49,949 --> 00:15:51,536 - Exactly. 289 00:15:51,536 --> 00:15:52,606 - And at that point I learned, 290 00:15:52,606 --> 00:15:54,125 it was the wintertime, 291 00:15:54,125 --> 00:15:56,334 and I learned that he was no longer 292 00:15:56,334 --> 00:15:58,612 in Youngstown at all, he was in Cleveland, 293 00:15:58,612 --> 00:16:00,269 and he was living in his car. 294 00:16:01,167 --> 00:16:03,203 But he looked immaculate. 295 00:16:04,584 --> 00:16:07,656 When I met him he was already lying about his age, 296 00:16:07,656 --> 00:16:09,623 and what was hilarious was, 297 00:16:09,623 --> 00:16:12,488 I noticed that without me prompting him, 298 00:16:12,488 --> 00:16:15,215 he started lying about my age, to people. 299 00:16:16,561 --> 00:16:20,531 And I go, what are you shaving years off my age for? 300 00:16:20,531 --> 00:16:22,567 And he goes, you'll thank me some day. 301 00:16:28,263 --> 00:16:31,818 Stiv wanted to form a band called the Atomic Bums, 302 00:16:31,818 --> 00:16:34,924 and we had kind of a real loose blueprint 303 00:16:34,924 --> 00:16:36,961 that was based on The Stooges. 304 00:16:36,961 --> 00:16:39,412 So, we didn't get anywhere with it, 305 00:16:39,412 --> 00:16:43,554 we couldn't find any musicians that had any desire 306 00:16:43,554 --> 00:16:48,007 to participate in, particularly Stiv's, plans. 307 00:16:48,007 --> 00:16:51,527 Because he was really the leader. 308 00:16:51,527 --> 00:16:53,322 - So that's when he went to Cleveland, 309 00:16:53,322 --> 00:16:56,222 and then Frankenstein began to form at that point. 310 00:16:56,222 --> 00:16:58,500 I remember he met Eugene, Cheetah. 311 00:17:11,409 --> 00:17:13,584 He kind of fell in with Cheetah and those guys, 312 00:17:13,584 --> 00:17:17,588 and Blitz, they were playing with Rocket from the Tombs, 313 00:17:17,588 --> 00:17:20,591 and Stiv would go in and start 314 00:17:20,591 --> 00:17:22,110 hanging around with these guys, 315 00:17:22,110 --> 00:17:23,594 and they'd let him get up and sing one or two songs 316 00:17:23,594 --> 00:17:24,871 at the end of their sets. 317 00:17:26,597 --> 00:17:28,081 - Cheetah and Johnny were the guys 318 00:17:28,081 --> 00:17:31,119 most like Stiv and I would have wanted to do musically, 319 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,604 out of all the guys, in that band. 320 00:17:33,604 --> 00:17:35,916 And we were interested in them. 321 00:17:36,779 --> 00:17:40,921 But Rockets was a disaster area. 322 00:17:42,613 --> 00:17:44,649 I didn't hear from him for a couple of weeks, 323 00:17:44,649 --> 00:17:46,203 and he called me up on the phone, 324 00:17:46,203 --> 00:17:48,412 and he goes, I joined Rocket from the Tombs. 325 00:17:49,344 --> 00:17:50,621 And I felt betrayed. 326 00:17:51,794 --> 00:17:53,831 Why didn't you tell me you were gonna do that? 327 00:17:53,831 --> 00:17:55,557 I felt betrayed. 328 00:17:55,557 --> 00:17:59,216 And I got hurt by it, to tell you the truth. 329 00:18:00,389 --> 00:18:03,772 But anyway, he called me up about a week later, 330 00:18:03,772 --> 00:18:05,429 and he goes, I broke up the band. 331 00:18:06,395 --> 00:18:08,363 He didn't break them up, 332 00:18:08,363 --> 00:18:09,709 that was the Stiv thing. 333 00:18:09,709 --> 00:18:11,400 - And so he kind of worked his way in there, 334 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,678 and eventually him and Cheetah, and Blitz, 335 00:18:13,678 --> 00:18:15,094 were working on their own project, 336 00:18:15,094 --> 00:18:16,992 which eventually became Frankenstein. 337 00:18:25,138 --> 00:18:29,108 - He goes, I got Johnny, and at the time, Gene, 338 00:18:29,108 --> 00:18:32,283 'cause Cheetah wasn't going by Cheetah then. 339 00:18:32,283 --> 00:18:35,562 He goes, I got them to form a band. 340 00:18:35,562 --> 00:18:39,359 Frankenstein was the same lineup that would occur 341 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,534 after The Dead Boys recorded their first album. 342 00:18:41,534 --> 00:18:42,811 It was Jeff Magnum, 343 00:18:44,123 --> 00:18:47,091 Cheetah, Johnny, Stiv and me. 344 00:18:47,091 --> 00:18:49,231 We were doing pretty much the same material, 345 00:18:49,231 --> 00:18:50,784 only it was kind of like 346 00:18:50,784 --> 00:18:52,890 there was a little bit of overlap with the glam era. 347 00:18:52,890 --> 00:18:55,203 We had long hair, and we dressed kind of fancy. 348 00:19:05,937 --> 00:19:09,355 ♪ But daylight kills me 349 00:19:09,355 --> 00:19:13,152 ♪ No love can kill me 350 00:19:13,152 --> 00:19:16,155 ♪ So please kill me 351 00:19:38,315 --> 00:19:39,833 - Stiv infiltrated the Ramones. 352 00:19:39,833 --> 00:19:42,491 They came to Youngstown and played, 353 00:19:42,491 --> 00:19:44,597 and they had to get to Cleveland, 354 00:19:44,597 --> 00:19:47,013 so he said he would show them the way. 355 00:19:47,013 --> 00:19:50,292 So he was going down the Ohio turnpike, 356 00:19:50,292 --> 00:19:53,226 and we're going about 70 miles an hour, 357 00:19:53,226 --> 00:19:54,986 and Stiv gets out of the car, 358 00:19:54,986 --> 00:19:56,885 he's driving the car, and he gets out of the car, 359 00:19:56,885 --> 00:19:59,336 and goes up on the roof and moons the Ramones. 360 00:19:59,336 --> 00:20:01,510 - And he like starts mooning us. 361 00:20:01,510 --> 00:20:03,823 And I thought at the time, 362 00:20:03,823 --> 00:20:06,066 this was like the sickest thing I'd ever seen, 363 00:20:06,066 --> 00:20:08,862 so we became friends, you know. 364 00:20:08,862 --> 00:20:11,210 - And Stiv lied, because Frankenstein had broken up. 365 00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:13,212 We didn't even have a band. 366 00:20:13,212 --> 00:20:14,765 And he said, oh yeah, I got a band together, 367 00:20:14,765 --> 00:20:17,077 we're called this and that and you know. 368 00:20:17,077 --> 00:20:19,701 And Joey said he would talk to Hilly 369 00:20:19,701 --> 00:20:22,945 and get us a Sunday night show. 370 00:20:24,153 --> 00:20:26,915 Nothing spectacular, a good slot or anything. 371 00:20:29,573 --> 00:20:32,541 We said sure Stiv, so Stiv calls up everybody on the phone, 372 00:20:32,541 --> 00:20:35,510 and we all meet him at Cleveland airport. 373 00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:39,755 And he said, listen I just got back from New York. 374 00:20:39,755 --> 00:20:43,242 This place, we would finally have a place to play. 375 00:20:43,242 --> 00:20:44,898 He didn't say we were gonna become 376 00:20:44,898 --> 00:20:46,141 big rock stars or anything. 377 00:20:46,141 --> 00:20:47,832 It was just, we'll have a place to play, 378 00:20:47,832 --> 00:20:49,731 CBGB's, we can play there easily, 379 00:20:49,731 --> 00:20:50,801 with what we're doing. 380 00:21:03,262 --> 00:21:05,919 Stiv was really ambitious, 381 00:21:05,919 --> 00:21:09,198 and nothing was gonna stand in his way, 382 00:21:09,198 --> 00:21:10,752 of what he wanted, 383 00:21:10,752 --> 00:21:13,824 and he could infiltrate a scene, 384 00:21:13,824 --> 00:21:15,032 any scene that he entered, 385 00:21:15,032 --> 00:21:16,930 he could infiltrate it, real easily. 386 00:21:16,930 --> 00:21:18,656 It was effortless to him. 387 00:21:18,656 --> 00:21:20,209 - Honestly for me, the Dead Boys 388 00:21:20,209 --> 00:21:24,559 were the only real American punk band in New York, 389 00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:27,562 and by that I'm not trying to offend other bands, 390 00:21:27,562 --> 00:21:30,737 but the Ramones were like the Beach Boys, 391 00:21:30,737 --> 00:21:32,360 Blondie were very pop, 392 00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:33,775 there was the whole art scene 393 00:21:33,775 --> 00:21:35,639 with Patti Smith and Television, 394 00:21:35,639 --> 00:21:38,676 and you had Willy DeVille, 395 00:21:38,676 --> 00:21:40,747 and the New York Dolls, 396 00:21:40,747 --> 00:21:43,992 that were more on the glam, or the R and B side, 397 00:21:43,992 --> 00:21:45,304 but the Dead Boys, 398 00:21:45,304 --> 00:21:47,651 if I were walking down a dark alley in the city, 399 00:21:47,651 --> 00:21:51,033 I would rather have Stiv and Cheetah there with me, 400 00:21:51,033 --> 00:21:53,691 than probably any other guy in a band in New York. 401 00:21:53,691 --> 00:21:55,141 - We were going up there, 402 00:21:55,141 --> 00:21:57,281 we were driving up there once a month to play. 403 00:21:57,281 --> 00:22:01,112 We played at CBGB's, Max's Kansas City. 404 00:22:01,112 --> 00:22:06,117 And we started to gain a little momentum. 405 00:22:07,291 --> 00:22:08,672 - They were it, they were just so hard, 406 00:22:08,672 --> 00:22:11,019 and just so on it, 407 00:22:11,019 --> 00:22:13,124 and they were really good musicians. 408 00:22:13,124 --> 00:22:15,230 - The Dead Boys had the attitude. 409 00:22:15,230 --> 00:22:16,818 Punk is an attitude. 410 00:22:16,818 --> 00:22:18,854 And Dead Boys had it in spades. 411 00:22:20,097 --> 00:22:21,305 - The Dead Boys brought, 412 00:22:22,617 --> 00:22:24,135 for the generation 413 00:22:26,103 --> 00:22:27,829 of 1977, you know, 414 00:22:27,829 --> 00:22:30,314 they brought the core of what was going on, 415 00:22:30,314 --> 00:22:33,248 which was the rawness of the streets. 416 00:22:34,387 --> 00:22:39,116 Like that real raw gang violence to the stage. 417 00:22:39,116 --> 00:22:40,289 - What we do onstage is just 418 00:22:40,289 --> 00:22:42,153 releasing a lot of energy and frustration. 419 00:22:44,432 --> 00:22:45,433 Where is it best to do it? 420 00:22:45,433 --> 00:22:46,848 Here, or out in the streets? 421 00:22:48,608 --> 00:22:50,541 That's how most of the kids get it out. 422 00:22:50,541 --> 00:22:51,749 They watch TV, 423 00:22:51,749 --> 00:22:53,026 and the see the violence there, 424 00:22:53,026 --> 00:22:54,338 and they get it out of them that way. 425 00:22:54,338 --> 00:22:56,996 But that's not full like you can here. 426 00:22:56,996 --> 00:22:58,894 Here you can break a bottle, or jump around, 427 00:22:58,894 --> 00:23:01,794 or something like that, or just watch us get it out for you. 428 00:23:01,794 --> 00:23:04,728 So what we're doing is really healthy. 429 00:23:04,728 --> 00:23:06,799 - When Stiv does what he does onstage, 430 00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:10,250 he enjoys people to laugh. 431 00:23:10,250 --> 00:23:11,942 He doesn't feel slighted by it, 432 00:23:11,942 --> 00:23:13,702 it's all in the spirit of having fun, 433 00:23:13,702 --> 00:23:17,568 and we want people to be able to vent 434 00:23:17,568 --> 00:23:19,536 their frustrations, and angers, and violence, 435 00:23:19,536 --> 00:23:21,400 but not on each other. 436 00:23:36,311 --> 00:23:37,830 ♪ Can I describe what it's like ♪ 437 00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:42,835 ♪ To have sex with the lights on? ♪ 438 00:23:44,284 --> 00:23:46,114 ♪ And would ya feel right if I did ya tonight? ♪ 439 00:23:46,114 --> 00:23:48,944 ♪ And put the bite on? 440 00:23:48,944 --> 00:23:53,052 ♪ All this and more little girl ♪ 441 00:23:53,052 --> 00:23:56,193 ♪ How bout on the floor little girl ♪ 442 00:23:56,193 --> 00:24:00,646 ♪ No time to implore ya girl 443 00:24:00,646 --> 00:24:03,200 ♪ I'm just a dead boy 444 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,721 ♪ You know that I'm just a dead boy ♪ 445 00:24:06,721 --> 00:24:10,207 ♪ I wanna be a dead boy 446 00:24:10,207 --> 00:24:14,625 ♪ I'll die for you, if you want me to ♪ 447 00:24:14,625 --> 00:24:17,594 ♪ Got feeling in my knees that tell me the degrees ♪ 448 00:24:17,594 --> 00:24:20,459 ♪ I been loved on 449 00:24:21,977 --> 00:24:23,496 - We started drawing people. 450 00:24:24,670 --> 00:24:26,534 And then, we were gonna break up, 451 00:24:26,534 --> 00:24:29,122 because we couldn't do that anymore, 452 00:24:29,122 --> 00:24:30,848 drive up to New York, drive back, 453 00:24:30,848 --> 00:24:32,091 drive up to New York, drive back, 454 00:24:32,091 --> 00:24:35,025 especially in the worst winter in 50 years, 455 00:24:35,025 --> 00:24:36,613 or whatever it was. 456 00:24:36,613 --> 00:24:41,618 And so we were gonna break up, 457 00:24:42,481 --> 00:24:43,723 if we didn't find management, 458 00:24:43,723 --> 00:24:46,968 and Hilly Kristal, the owner of CBGB's, 459 00:24:46,968 --> 00:24:48,417 began to notice us, 460 00:24:48,417 --> 00:24:52,111 that he was making a lot of money off the bar, 461 00:24:52,111 --> 00:24:53,284 whenever we played. 462 00:24:54,354 --> 00:24:55,424 And he thought, hmmm. 463 00:24:56,564 --> 00:24:58,462 So he said, do you guys have a manager? 464 00:24:58,462 --> 00:24:59,705 And we said, no. 465 00:24:59,705 --> 00:25:01,672 And he goes, would you like me to manage you? 466 00:25:02,708 --> 00:25:03,985 And we said, yeah. 467 00:25:03,985 --> 00:25:06,677 Sure, it was like manna from heaven, 468 00:25:06,677 --> 00:25:09,335 it saved us from ourselves. 469 00:25:09,335 --> 00:25:12,303 So anyway, he put his money where his mouth was, 470 00:25:12,303 --> 00:25:15,824 and he booked us into Electric Lady Studios 471 00:25:15,824 --> 00:25:16,756 in New York City, 472 00:25:16,756 --> 00:25:19,759 and we did a three-day demo, 473 00:25:19,759 --> 00:25:23,522 and Genya Ravan was nice enough to produce us. 474 00:25:23,522 --> 00:25:25,800 - They had never been in a studio before. 475 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,940 Everything was pending on Hilly Kristal 476 00:25:27,940 --> 00:25:29,804 paying for everything. 477 00:25:29,804 --> 00:25:32,910 And when Hilly recommended me to produce them, 478 00:25:32,910 --> 00:25:34,912 of course they said yes. 479 00:25:34,912 --> 00:25:37,121 Even if I was a stepping stone. 480 00:25:37,121 --> 00:25:40,815 Turned out to be, that was one of their best albums. 481 00:25:40,815 --> 00:25:42,333 - We recorded it real real fast. 482 00:25:42,333 --> 00:25:45,060 We were very very very very high, and drunk, 483 00:25:45,060 --> 00:25:47,200 and real fast. 484 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,099 We went into the studio, 485 00:25:49,099 --> 00:25:50,756 and Hilly said, what do you need 486 00:25:51,653 --> 00:25:54,069 to do what you guys do? 487 00:25:54,069 --> 00:25:55,864 Would mean be the Dead Boys. 488 00:25:55,864 --> 00:25:58,142 And we said, lots of whiskey and beer. 489 00:25:58,142 --> 00:26:00,593 And so they had literally every three or four hours, 490 00:26:00,593 --> 00:26:02,871 a caravan coming from CBGB's, 491 00:26:02,871 --> 00:26:06,910 with Schlitz Beer and Jack Daniels. 492 00:26:06,910 --> 00:26:09,775 We were also taking a lot of speed at the time. 493 00:26:09,775 --> 00:26:12,225 In fact, I went outside, 494 00:26:12,225 --> 00:26:14,849 and I was in an amphetamine psychotic state, 495 00:26:14,849 --> 00:26:16,436 and saw Peter Frampton, 496 00:26:16,436 --> 00:26:18,749 who was in recording his followup 497 00:26:18,749 --> 00:26:20,579 to Frampton Comes Alive. 498 00:26:20,579 --> 00:26:22,166 And I doubt that he'll ever see this, 499 00:26:22,166 --> 00:26:24,306 but I'd like to apologize to him, 500 00:26:25,687 --> 00:26:27,620 because he was at the coffee machine getting coffee, 501 00:26:27,620 --> 00:26:29,691 and I saw him, and he was at that point, 502 00:26:29,691 --> 00:26:32,107 he was the biggest rock star in the world, 503 00:26:32,107 --> 00:26:33,592 the biggest. 504 00:26:33,592 --> 00:26:37,561 And I saw him, and he's rather a small little fella, 505 00:26:37,561 --> 00:26:39,080 and I came up behind him and I was 506 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,496 completely out of my mind, 507 00:26:41,496 --> 00:26:43,947 on drugs and alcohol, 508 00:26:43,947 --> 00:26:46,812 and I stuck my chin on the top of his head 509 00:26:46,812 --> 00:26:50,332 and started growling like I was this wild beast. 510 00:26:50,332 --> 00:26:52,369 He turned around and looked at me, 511 00:26:52,369 --> 00:26:54,923 and left the studio, 512 00:26:54,923 --> 00:26:58,133 and went on vacation, and there was a sign that said, 513 00:26:58,133 --> 00:26:59,618 we'll be back. 514 00:26:59,618 --> 00:27:01,412 And he found out when we were gonna be booked till, 515 00:27:01,412 --> 00:27:02,897 and he was gonna come back. 516 00:27:02,897 --> 00:27:04,381 So what did we do? 517 00:27:04,381 --> 00:27:05,865 We went in, 518 00:27:05,865 --> 00:27:10,732 and he had the most advanced guitar gear in the world, 519 00:27:12,182 --> 00:27:14,874 so we borrowed it, to use it on Young, Loud and Snotty. 520 00:27:14,874 --> 00:27:17,705 - I think they got mixed reviews though. 521 00:27:17,705 --> 00:27:20,535 A lot of critics just hated punk rock, 522 00:27:20,535 --> 00:27:23,987 so no matter what great punk record came out, 523 00:27:23,987 --> 00:27:25,367 it would get bad reviews. 524 00:27:26,645 --> 00:27:28,819 ♪ I don't need anyone 525 00:27:28,819 --> 00:27:31,028 ♪ Don't need no mom and dad 526 00:27:31,028 --> 00:27:33,410 ♪ Don't need no pretty face 527 00:27:33,410 --> 00:27:35,895 ♪ Don't need no human race 528 00:27:35,895 --> 00:27:38,208 ♪ I got some news for you 529 00:27:38,208 --> 00:27:40,831 ♪ Don't even need you too 530 00:27:40,831 --> 00:27:42,971 ♪ I got my devil machine 531 00:27:42,971 --> 00:27:45,249 ♪ Got my electronic dream 532 00:27:45,249 --> 00:27:46,388 ♪ Sonic reducer 533 00:27:46,388 --> 00:27:50,185 ♪ Ain't no loser 534 00:27:50,185 --> 00:27:51,152 ♪ I'm a sonic reducer 535 00:27:51,152 --> 00:27:53,879 ♪ Ain't no loser 536 00:28:04,579 --> 00:28:06,823 ♪ People out on the streets 537 00:28:06,823 --> 00:28:09,273 ♪ They don't know who I am 538 00:28:09,273 --> 00:28:11,620 ♪ I watch them from my room 539 00:28:11,620 --> 00:28:14,382 ♪ They all just pass me by 540 00:28:14,382 --> 00:28:16,556 ♪ But I'm not just anyone 541 00:28:16,556 --> 00:28:20,112 ♪ Said I'm not just anyone 542 00:28:20,112 --> 00:28:21,803 - I saw the Dead Boys play, 543 00:28:21,803 --> 00:28:23,494 and I saw Stiv, 544 00:28:25,324 --> 00:28:27,671 curled up in a ball, in front of the bass drum, 545 00:28:27,671 --> 00:28:29,362 with the mic on the floor, 546 00:28:29,362 --> 00:28:31,640 and I thought it was so cool, 547 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,781 and when I did meet him about two years later, 548 00:28:33,781 --> 00:28:35,714 I told him the story. 549 00:28:35,714 --> 00:28:37,957 Said it was a great anti-rock star moment, 550 00:28:37,957 --> 00:28:39,614 it was so punk rock, it was so cool, 551 00:28:39,614 --> 00:28:42,479 and he was like, well, I took Quaaludes before the show, 552 00:28:42,479 --> 00:28:44,412 and I passed out and kind of couldn't sing, 553 00:28:44,412 --> 00:28:45,896 and I couldn't stand up. 554 00:28:45,896 --> 00:28:48,519 So that's why I did the show laying down. 555 00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:50,970 - I think he had a hard time finding validation 556 00:28:50,970 --> 00:28:53,421 as a musician before the Dead Boys. 557 00:28:53,421 --> 00:28:54,594 I think we all did, 558 00:28:55,941 --> 00:28:57,770 all of us in the band. 559 00:28:57,770 --> 00:29:00,221 And it validated him, and all of a sudden 560 00:29:00,221 --> 00:29:03,396 people were admiring what he did. 561 00:29:03,396 --> 00:29:04,673 They liked it. 562 00:29:04,673 --> 00:29:06,675 He was getting good positive response. 563 00:29:06,675 --> 00:29:08,712 People were paying attention to him. 564 00:29:08,712 --> 00:29:12,302 And I think he found a validation in it. 565 00:29:12,302 --> 00:29:15,132 And also, it was really a lot of fun. 566 00:29:15,132 --> 00:29:17,756 My God, we were like kids in a candy store. 567 00:29:17,756 --> 00:29:21,518 - Yeah Stiv was always so nice, 568 00:29:21,518 --> 00:29:23,106 and so professional, 569 00:29:23,106 --> 00:29:26,212 and seemed to be very intelligent, 570 00:29:26,212 --> 00:29:28,905 even though they were doing this crazy, nutty 571 00:29:28,905 --> 00:29:30,941 self-destructive stuff onstage, 572 00:29:32,046 --> 00:29:34,255 I always thought Stiv was kind of 573 00:29:34,255 --> 00:29:35,774 the brains of the outfit. 574 00:29:35,774 --> 00:29:38,431 - Some of the crazy times I would say, 575 00:29:38,431 --> 00:29:40,986 would be when Stiv was on the road, 576 00:29:40,986 --> 00:29:42,435 and starting to get 577 00:29:43,298 --> 00:29:45,335 messed up about us being apart, 578 00:29:45,335 --> 00:29:46,750 and he would phone me 579 00:29:46,750 --> 00:29:50,064 with crazy threats about being depressed, 580 00:29:50,064 --> 00:29:52,411 and telling me that we climbing 581 00:29:52,411 --> 00:29:54,689 out on the ledge of the hotel, 582 00:29:54,689 --> 00:29:56,795 the window ledge of the hotel, 583 00:29:56,795 --> 00:29:58,624 and then I wouldn't hear from him, 584 00:29:58,624 --> 00:30:00,522 it was before cell phones, 585 00:30:00,522 --> 00:30:03,525 and there were a few times that I called Cheetah 586 00:30:03,525 --> 00:30:05,010 at the hotel and asked him 587 00:30:05,010 --> 00:30:06,805 to get him in from the window ledge. 588 00:30:19,334 --> 00:30:24,339 ♪ All my boyhood friends told me I'd fail ♪ 589 00:30:25,478 --> 00:30:30,311 ♪ Spend my lifetime friendless or in jail ♪ 590 00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:35,143 ♪ And all the girls at the school dance ♪ 591 00:30:35,143 --> 00:30:40,114 ♪ Wouldn't give me a second chance ♪ 592 00:30:42,564 --> 00:30:47,535 ♪ But I won't look back 593 00:30:48,777 --> 00:30:52,057 ♪ But I won't look back 594 00:30:59,167 --> 00:31:00,582 - The second album was weird. 595 00:31:00,582 --> 00:31:03,378 It was just kind of a negative thing from the get-go. 596 00:31:04,517 --> 00:31:08,452 Felix Pappalardi had put up kind of a feeler 597 00:31:08,452 --> 00:31:10,558 to Sire Records. 598 00:31:10,558 --> 00:31:12,871 There was no guitars on the record, 599 00:31:12,871 --> 00:31:17,082 and the more that Cheetah and I would, 600 00:31:17,082 --> 00:31:18,324 particularly Cheetah, 601 00:31:18,324 --> 00:31:21,293 Cheetah didn't waste any time protesting that. 602 00:31:21,293 --> 00:31:24,468 And I agreed with him, he was right, 100%, 603 00:31:24,468 --> 00:31:27,368 and the more he protested, I think the more 604 00:31:27,368 --> 00:31:29,094 Felix said, screw you, 605 00:31:29,094 --> 00:31:31,337 and got rid of him even more. 606 00:31:31,337 --> 00:31:36,342 - The second album is like a lot of bands go through this. 607 00:31:37,550 --> 00:31:39,069 They're together for a year or two, 608 00:31:39,069 --> 00:31:41,209 they write a lot of songs, 609 00:31:41,209 --> 00:31:44,281 and then they put out the first record, 610 00:31:44,281 --> 00:31:46,421 which is all their best songs. 611 00:31:46,421 --> 00:31:47,836 And then it's like, the second album 612 00:31:47,836 --> 00:31:49,390 is due a few months later. 613 00:31:49,390 --> 00:31:50,460 What do I do? 614 00:31:50,460 --> 00:31:51,702 What do we do? 615 00:31:51,702 --> 00:31:53,256 And they end up writing everything, 616 00:31:54,705 --> 00:31:59,089 more hastily and they don't perform it onstage. 617 00:31:59,089 --> 00:32:00,194 - So they had just finished 618 00:32:00,194 --> 00:32:03,300 their second album, in Miami, 619 00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:07,235 and he was really distraught, heartbroken. 620 00:32:07,235 --> 00:32:11,067 He said the whole thing was kind of a heartbreak. 621 00:32:11,067 --> 00:32:13,724 The band was fighting, there was fighting within the band, 622 00:32:13,724 --> 00:32:16,210 they weren't happy with the recordings, 623 00:32:16,210 --> 00:32:18,833 and he was actually kind of considering 624 00:32:18,833 --> 00:32:20,869 leaving at that point. 625 00:32:20,869 --> 00:32:22,906 - We lived in various places, 626 00:32:22,906 --> 00:32:24,080 throughout our relationships. 627 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:25,978 Stiv would come and stay with me in Toronto, 628 00:32:25,978 --> 00:32:28,325 when he was not on the road. 629 00:32:28,325 --> 00:32:33,123 We lived at the Chelsea for about three months, in 1978, 630 00:32:33,123 --> 00:32:35,781 and our neighbors were Sid and Nancy, 631 00:32:35,781 --> 00:32:40,786 and we did a cable TV show two weeks before Nancy died. 632 00:32:41,649 --> 00:32:42,581 - We were living on the edge. 633 00:32:42,581 --> 00:32:44,755 We were approaching violence. 634 00:32:44,755 --> 00:32:48,276 We had those knives, we got one for Sid Vicious. 635 00:32:48,276 --> 00:32:50,382 Those knives, those double-O-7 knives. 636 00:32:50,382 --> 00:32:51,659 They were big. 637 00:32:51,659 --> 00:32:53,799 Stiv had one, I had one. 638 00:32:53,799 --> 00:32:55,421 I think Blitz may have had one. 639 00:32:56,595 --> 00:32:59,943 Yeah, he was stabbed really really horribly. 640 00:32:59,943 --> 00:33:02,739 I mean they weren't expecting him to make it. 641 00:33:02,739 --> 00:33:04,741 In fact, this one doctor more or less 642 00:33:04,741 --> 00:33:06,329 brought him back from the dead. 643 00:33:08,158 --> 00:33:09,988 And I threw mine away that night, 644 00:33:09,988 --> 00:33:11,472 because I thought, who am I kidding? 645 00:33:11,472 --> 00:33:13,853 Walking around the streets with a knife? 646 00:33:13,853 --> 00:33:15,234 It's gonna end up being used on me, 647 00:33:15,234 --> 00:33:16,408 so I got rid of it. 648 00:33:17,754 --> 00:33:20,860 - It definitely gave a sense of, 649 00:33:20,860 --> 00:33:22,276 the danger that was coming, 650 00:33:22,276 --> 00:33:26,521 and the increasing substance, like drug use, 651 00:33:26,521 --> 00:33:29,800 that was also causing chaos on the lower east side. 652 00:33:30,939 --> 00:33:34,840 - Cheetah was really really falling, 653 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:35,668 as a person. 654 00:33:37,291 --> 00:33:38,913 Thank God he got back together, 655 00:33:38,913 --> 00:33:40,397 and picked himself back up, 656 00:33:40,397 --> 00:33:44,091 but he was really doing a lot of serious heroin, by then. 657 00:33:45,126 --> 00:33:47,473 And, his wrist was broken, 658 00:33:47,473 --> 00:33:49,820 so he couldn't do the gigs we had lined up. 659 00:33:49,820 --> 00:33:51,581 We went to Keith Richard's birthday party, 660 00:33:51,581 --> 00:33:52,858 as you have already asked, 661 00:33:52,858 --> 00:33:55,757 and he had broken his wrist, roller skating. 662 00:33:57,173 --> 00:34:01,936 And he went to the hospital, Keith gave him his limo 663 00:34:01,936 --> 00:34:03,627 to take him to the hospital. 664 00:34:03,627 --> 00:34:06,665 Best trip the hospital Cheetah's ever had. 665 00:34:06,665 --> 00:34:08,494 So we got George Cabinus, 666 00:34:08,494 --> 00:34:12,774 who was a guy from an Akron band, 667 00:34:12,774 --> 00:34:14,224 and we were friends with him, 668 00:34:14,224 --> 00:34:16,675 and he was gonna fill in for Cheetah, 669 00:34:16,675 --> 00:34:18,125 until Cheetah got better. 670 00:34:18,125 --> 00:34:20,782 We were swamped with people who wanted to manage us, 671 00:34:20,782 --> 00:34:23,716 and we were in way over our heads with these people. 672 00:34:23,716 --> 00:34:28,031 We had the guys, Pink Floyd's attorney was courting us. 673 00:34:29,067 --> 00:34:31,069 It was heavy hitter people. 674 00:34:31,069 --> 00:34:33,071 They thought we were gonna be the next Stones, 675 00:34:33,071 --> 00:34:35,280 which I could have told them that we weren't. 676 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,868 But this one guy said, I will manage you. 677 00:34:37,868 --> 00:34:39,007 I won't give his name. 678 00:34:40,147 --> 00:34:44,220 I will manage you, if you can tell Cheetah 679 00:34:44,220 --> 00:34:46,360 to just get off the dope. 680 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,431 You'll never make it with him on the dope. 681 00:34:48,431 --> 00:34:50,674 So Stiv called Cheetah up on the phone, 682 00:34:50,674 --> 00:34:53,091 and said, you have to choose. 683 00:34:53,091 --> 00:34:55,783 This is what really happened, I was there. 684 00:34:55,783 --> 00:34:58,648 You have to choose between 685 00:34:58,648 --> 00:35:01,582 heroin and the Dead Boys. 686 00:35:01,582 --> 00:35:03,515 And Cheetah said, fuck you. 687 00:35:03,515 --> 00:35:05,033 Just did. 688 00:35:05,033 --> 00:35:07,243 And that was the end of the Dead Boys right there. 689 00:35:07,243 --> 00:35:08,796 I knew we couldn't replace him. 690 00:35:24,191 --> 00:35:27,297 ♪ I am an evil boy 691 00:35:27,297 --> 00:35:30,266 ♪ I am an evil boy 692 00:35:30,266 --> 00:35:33,441 ♪ I am an evil boy 693 00:35:33,441 --> 00:35:36,375 ♪ I am an evil boy 694 00:35:42,416 --> 00:35:44,107 - It was weird the way it happened. 695 00:35:44,107 --> 00:35:45,626 Jimmy was still there, 696 00:35:45,626 --> 00:35:48,939 and all of a sudden Cheetah was gone, 697 00:35:48,939 --> 00:35:52,529 and they've got their little stripey blazer jackets. 698 00:35:54,359 --> 00:35:56,982 He appreciated really good poppy, 699 00:35:58,121 --> 00:36:00,503 poppy garage songs from the 60's. 700 00:36:01,538 --> 00:36:02,712 Like It's Cold Outside, 701 00:36:02,712 --> 00:36:04,369 and all that nuggets kind of stuff. 702 00:36:05,818 --> 00:36:07,199 That's what he wanted to do, 703 00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:11,376 instead of just being a straight on punk band, forever. 704 00:36:11,376 --> 00:36:13,792 - That's what the Dead Boys had been 705 00:36:13,792 --> 00:36:15,103 morphing into. 706 00:36:16,174 --> 00:36:18,141 Stiv was done with punk rock. 707 00:36:18,141 --> 00:36:19,177 He was done, 708 00:36:19,177 --> 00:36:21,040 and he was bored with it. 709 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,870 He didn't like the way the people looked, 710 00:36:22,870 --> 00:36:25,010 that did it, and he didn't like, 711 00:36:25,010 --> 00:36:27,012 he thought the sound had been worn out, 712 00:36:27,012 --> 00:36:30,291 and he wanted to go back to the 60's roots, 713 00:36:30,291 --> 00:36:31,948 and he had a perfect partner in Frank Secich, 714 00:36:31,948 --> 00:36:36,953 who was a fabulous songwriter, musician, 715 00:36:36,953 --> 00:36:38,299 from the Youngstown area. 716 00:36:40,715 --> 00:36:43,270 ♪ I am an evil boy 717 00:36:43,270 --> 00:36:44,581 - And then it kind of became 718 00:36:44,581 --> 00:36:46,721 a Stiv Bators Dead Boys thing, 719 00:36:46,721 --> 00:36:49,068 and we toured for the next year like that, 720 00:36:49,068 --> 00:36:50,967 with different personnel changes. 721 00:36:50,967 --> 00:36:53,245 - So we did a lot of shows, 722 00:36:53,245 --> 00:36:55,247 before we recorded Disconnected, 723 00:36:55,247 --> 00:36:58,285 and most of those shows were done with Jimmy Zero. 724 00:37:00,148 --> 00:37:02,668 So we toured quite a bit with that band. 725 00:37:02,668 --> 00:37:04,360 Jimmy left, and that's when we went 726 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,983 to California to record Disconnected. 727 00:37:21,791 --> 00:37:23,102 I got this call from him, 728 00:37:23,102 --> 00:37:24,276 and he said, I've tickets for you, 729 00:37:24,276 --> 00:37:26,244 I want you to come down to LA 730 00:37:26,244 --> 00:37:29,557 to record this new single that I'm doing. 731 00:37:30,524 --> 00:37:32,111 And that was with Frank Secich, 732 00:37:32,111 --> 00:37:35,253 his friend from Ohio who was in Blue Ash, 733 00:37:35,253 --> 00:37:37,255 and his friend Eddy Best. 734 00:37:38,152 --> 00:37:39,774 - Eddy, met Jeff Beck. 735 00:37:39,774 --> 00:37:41,500 Loves your guitar playing, 736 00:37:41,500 --> 00:37:43,468 get back out here, Stiv. 737 00:37:44,676 --> 00:37:46,056 - We would rehearse 738 00:37:46,056 --> 00:37:49,301 at a rehearsal studio all night, 739 00:37:49,301 --> 00:37:51,407 usually up until six o'clock in the morning, 740 00:37:51,407 --> 00:37:53,029 until we felt comfortable. 741 00:37:53,029 --> 00:37:54,962 We didn't do a lot of these rehearsals. 742 00:37:54,962 --> 00:37:57,240 A lot of the work was done in the studio. 743 00:37:57,240 --> 00:37:58,759 We had a hell of a lot of freedom, 744 00:37:58,759 --> 00:38:02,314 that was given to us by Greg Shaw, at Bump Records. 745 00:38:02,314 --> 00:38:05,179 And we were able to experiment a lot, 746 00:38:05,179 --> 00:38:08,458 and pretty much do what we wanted to do. 747 00:38:08,458 --> 00:38:10,288 Not all of us were able to stand up straight 748 00:38:10,288 --> 00:38:11,979 all the time when we were doing it, 749 00:38:11,979 --> 00:38:13,670 but it was a hell of a lot of fun, 750 00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:14,913 and there was a lot of laughter. 751 00:38:14,913 --> 00:38:16,742 - The sessions went on way too long. 752 00:38:16,742 --> 00:38:19,607 There was a lot of, me driving Stiv 753 00:38:19,607 --> 00:38:21,022 up to Beverly Glen to score, 754 00:38:21,022 --> 00:38:22,886 and then come back and do 755 00:38:22,886 --> 00:38:26,338 many many many takes of the same song and stuff. 756 00:38:26,338 --> 00:38:27,374 But it was fun. 757 00:38:28,754 --> 00:38:30,756 - Stiv and Frank, in particular, 758 00:38:30,756 --> 00:38:33,828 were more influenced by 60's pop music. 759 00:38:33,828 --> 00:38:36,866 They loved Paul Revere and the Raiders. 760 00:38:36,866 --> 00:38:39,800 Everybody liked the Raspberries from Ohio. 761 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,698 Frank's band, Blue Ash. 762 00:38:41,698 --> 00:38:45,012 So I think a lot of the power pop influences 763 00:38:45,012 --> 00:38:46,393 came from 60's pop, 764 00:38:46,393 --> 00:38:48,291 and from early 70's pop. 765 00:38:48,291 --> 00:38:51,363 It wasn't like, oh we're out to make this big hit album, 766 00:38:51,363 --> 00:38:53,020 or anything like that. 767 00:38:53,020 --> 00:38:54,711 We were just doing what we were doing, 768 00:38:54,711 --> 00:38:57,127 and it was gonna produce whatever result 769 00:38:57,127 --> 00:38:58,059 it was gonna produce. 770 00:38:58,059 --> 00:39:00,855 It wasn't like sitting around 771 00:39:00,855 --> 00:39:02,374 and trying to conquer the world. 772 00:39:02,374 --> 00:39:06,136 There was very little talk about commercial success, 773 00:39:06,136 --> 00:39:07,310 or anything like that, 774 00:39:07,310 --> 00:39:09,312 it was just to make a great record 775 00:39:09,312 --> 00:39:11,176 that, quite frankly, we liked. 776 00:39:11,176 --> 00:39:13,247 - Well, you know, Stiv was very ambitious. 777 00:39:13,247 --> 00:39:15,594 He was always trying to do the best he could do. 778 00:39:15,594 --> 00:39:18,908 He was very serious about his music, 779 00:39:18,908 --> 00:39:21,082 and all I can say is, his expectations, 780 00:39:21,082 --> 00:39:22,498 where he expected it to be the best, 781 00:39:22,498 --> 00:39:24,638 and he expected everybody to give their best, 782 00:39:24,638 --> 00:39:27,192 and he always did, and that's why live, 783 00:39:27,192 --> 00:39:29,850 the guy would give out his soul. 784 00:39:29,850 --> 00:39:32,093 He was a great performer, and he loved music, 785 00:39:32,093 --> 00:39:33,819 and he believed in it. 786 00:39:33,819 --> 00:39:36,304 - So on Disconnected, he was breaking away 787 00:39:36,304 --> 00:39:37,996 from the Dead Boys, 788 00:39:37,996 --> 00:39:41,689 and he was Stiv, the solo project, that was a great record. 789 00:39:41,689 --> 00:39:43,795 And the B-Girls actually sang backups 790 00:39:43,795 --> 00:39:46,453 on one of the songs, on that record. 791 00:39:46,453 --> 00:39:48,386 And we were all living at Stiv's bungalow 792 00:39:48,386 --> 00:39:50,905 at the Tropicana Hotel at that time. 793 00:39:50,905 --> 00:39:55,082 - When we'd go onstage, he would take off his sunglasses, 794 00:39:55,082 --> 00:39:57,533 and I realized one night, 795 00:39:57,533 --> 00:40:00,708 that he's completely blind when he's performing. 796 00:40:00,708 --> 00:40:03,573 He doesn't know what the hell's going on. 797 00:40:03,573 --> 00:40:06,404 He was knocking into shit, all over the place. 798 00:40:07,784 --> 00:40:09,614 - You knew that he was one 799 00:40:09,614 --> 00:40:11,132 of the funniest people in the world, 800 00:40:11,132 --> 00:40:14,446 and did such insane things. 801 00:40:14,446 --> 00:40:16,931 We all saw him car surfing, 802 00:40:16,931 --> 00:40:19,624 which on one hand I found to be funny, 803 00:40:19,624 --> 00:40:22,385 and on the other hand, very very frightening. 804 00:40:23,317 --> 00:40:25,768 He did it with me at the wheel, 805 00:40:25,768 --> 00:40:30,220 in a 1969 Cutlass, on the 405, in Los Angeles. 806 00:40:31,394 --> 00:40:33,879 He climbed out of the car, and got on top. 807 00:40:33,879 --> 00:40:35,260 And what I found out later, 808 00:40:35,260 --> 00:40:37,987 is he was not only on the roof, 809 00:40:37,987 --> 00:40:39,609 but he had his pants down. 810 00:40:43,061 --> 00:40:44,787 - He's car surfing, 811 00:40:44,787 --> 00:40:47,203 and people are beeping and everything going by. 812 00:40:47,203 --> 00:40:49,377 I thought, oh my God, this guy's nuts. 813 00:40:49,377 --> 00:40:52,208 - So he honed in this telephone voice, 814 00:40:52,208 --> 00:40:55,487 so what he used to do is he'd call restaurants and whatnot. 815 00:41:36,494 --> 00:41:38,737 - After Sham was splitting up, 816 00:41:38,737 --> 00:41:41,326 Jimmy wanted to do a solo career, 817 00:41:41,326 --> 00:41:44,502 and the three remaining members of us said, 818 00:41:44,502 --> 00:41:46,987 let's stick together, we like playing together but, 819 00:41:46,987 --> 00:41:48,195 we need a good singer. 820 00:41:48,195 --> 00:41:49,472 What were we gonna do? 821 00:41:49,472 --> 00:41:51,405 We couldn't think of anyone in England, 822 00:41:51,405 --> 00:41:52,820 but the drummer was American, 823 00:41:52,820 --> 00:41:54,304 and he had a contact for Stiv, 824 00:41:55,754 --> 00:41:57,411 and he said, what about Stiv Bators from the Dead Boys? 825 00:41:57,411 --> 00:42:00,587 I'm sure it's not gonna happen, but let's give it a try. 826 00:42:00,587 --> 00:42:02,520 Ricky, the drummer, phoned him up, 827 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,108 and to our total surprise, he said, yeah! 828 00:42:05,108 --> 00:42:07,525 I've just finished my solo album, blah blah blah, 829 00:42:07,525 --> 00:42:10,804 bored with America, love England, I want to come over. 830 00:42:10,804 --> 00:42:12,771 I love Sham 69, let's do it. 831 00:42:12,771 --> 00:42:16,223 So he came over, unexpectedly, and we formed The Wanderers. 832 00:42:16,223 --> 00:42:18,812 - That's basically how it all came together. 833 00:42:18,812 --> 00:42:20,261 It worked, and we decided to go on in. 834 00:42:20,261 --> 00:42:22,816 Stiv had brought over with him, 835 00:42:22,816 --> 00:42:24,680 these tapes. 836 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,441 Now this was the main concept for the album, 837 00:42:28,546 --> 00:42:31,445 because he was a very interesting guy, 838 00:42:31,445 --> 00:42:33,551 and lot of his positive points was, 839 00:42:33,551 --> 00:42:37,416 he was very sussed, and he had his finger on the pulse, 840 00:42:37,416 --> 00:42:39,902 and he was very interested in future things, 841 00:42:39,902 --> 00:42:42,007 and he brought over with him these tapes. 842 00:42:42,007 --> 00:42:43,319 - So you had all these audio tapes, 843 00:42:43,319 --> 00:42:45,148 and he would get them mailed over 844 00:42:45,148 --> 00:42:47,841 from this mad guy in Texas. 845 00:42:47,841 --> 00:42:49,636 It could have been a complete phony. 846 00:42:51,154 --> 00:42:54,399 Apparently he was one of the aides of President Kennedy, 847 00:42:54,399 --> 00:42:56,677 and his name was Doctor Beater, 848 00:42:56,677 --> 00:42:59,784 and the track on the Wanderers album, Peter Beater, 849 00:42:59,784 --> 00:43:03,166 is a little double entendre, because in America, 850 00:43:03,166 --> 00:43:05,203 slang for your dick is a peter. 851 00:43:05,203 --> 00:43:07,861 And peter beater is a bit like a masturbator. 852 00:43:07,861 --> 00:43:10,104 - I mean one of the first songs we wrote was. 853 00:43:14,419 --> 00:43:16,697 The subject matter just flew out, 854 00:43:16,697 --> 00:43:19,044 with the help of these tapes. 855 00:43:19,044 --> 00:43:21,288 - He was over there doing something, 856 00:43:21,288 --> 00:43:22,738 and I reconnected with him, 857 00:43:22,738 --> 00:43:24,256 and I think he was a little bit stranded in London. 858 00:43:24,256 --> 00:43:26,534 So by that time, 859 00:43:26,534 --> 00:43:28,709 we had had a little bit of a success, 860 00:43:28,709 --> 00:43:30,711 and we had our own place that we lived. 861 00:43:30,711 --> 00:43:32,540 Lee Rocker and I had a little flat, 862 00:43:32,540 --> 00:43:33,714 and Stiv would stay there, 863 00:43:33,714 --> 00:43:34,853 he couch-surfed a little bit. 864 00:43:34,853 --> 00:43:36,372 I think we had a cot. 865 00:43:36,372 --> 00:43:37,856 - We were hanging out with The Stray Cats at the time. 866 00:43:37,856 --> 00:43:39,582 The record company has thrown a big party, 867 00:43:39,582 --> 00:43:42,999 in some big restaurant down Westborne Grove, I think it was, 868 00:43:42,999 --> 00:43:45,105 and we were invited, so we went down there, 869 00:43:45,105 --> 00:43:47,245 and the whole thing degenerated 870 00:43:47,245 --> 00:43:50,144 into some massive great food fight. 871 00:43:50,144 --> 00:43:53,147 And we were ejected from the restaurant, 872 00:43:53,147 --> 00:43:55,184 never to return again. 873 00:43:55,184 --> 00:43:57,462 So anyway, we were back in my Jag, 874 00:43:57,462 --> 00:43:59,257 and we were driving back into London, 875 00:44:00,430 --> 00:44:02,674 and I was talking to Stiv in the back seat. 876 00:44:02,674 --> 00:44:04,642 I turn around and Stiv's not there. 877 00:44:04,642 --> 00:44:06,057 What the fuck? 878 00:44:06,057 --> 00:44:07,610 He's flipping climbed out the window, 879 00:44:07,610 --> 00:44:09,508 and he's on the roof, and he's flipping body surfing 880 00:44:09,508 --> 00:44:11,407 along Westborne Road on top of the Jag. 881 00:44:11,407 --> 00:44:13,754 I'm shouting out, you scratch my fucking Jag, 882 00:44:13,754 --> 00:44:16,239 I'll flipping brake. 883 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,173 - When Stiv first came over he was all very up 884 00:44:19,173 --> 00:44:22,556 the whole time, you know, a very positive person, 885 00:44:22,556 --> 00:44:24,040 and then there was one incident 886 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,112 where he couldn't somehow get his money from the manager, 887 00:44:27,112 --> 00:44:29,183 and Stiv got on a real downer, 888 00:44:29,183 --> 00:44:32,911 and he pulled out all his remaining money from his pocket, 889 00:44:32,911 --> 00:44:34,395 which was quite a lot of money, 890 00:44:34,395 --> 00:44:37,675 and just was saying, fuck Tony Goode, and fuck England, 891 00:44:37,675 --> 00:44:39,193 blah blah blah, and burned his money, 892 00:44:39,193 --> 00:44:41,023 and that's when I saw like the little bit 893 00:44:41,023 --> 00:44:42,472 of the other side of Stiv, 894 00:44:42,472 --> 00:44:46,028 as I'm sure many very talented people, 895 00:44:46,028 --> 00:44:48,340 they have problems as well, 896 00:44:48,340 --> 00:44:50,480 and that's when I first saw that Stiv's got 897 00:44:51,619 --> 00:44:53,552 a little problems with depression maybe, 898 00:44:53,552 --> 00:44:54,657 and being down. 899 00:44:55,589 --> 00:44:57,591 So he wasn't all this up guy. 900 00:44:58,765 --> 00:45:00,318 - He was living in my house, 901 00:45:00,318 --> 00:45:03,321 and every single day the phone would ring. 902 00:45:03,321 --> 00:45:06,013 I'd run downstairs, pick up the phone, 903 00:45:06,013 --> 00:45:07,739 hello, oh it's Brian James, 904 00:45:07,739 --> 00:45:10,155 hello Brian, how are you, is Stiv there? 905 00:45:10,155 --> 00:45:12,710 Yeah yeah, hold on, I'll get Stiv here. 906 00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:14,953 Next day, same thing, same thing, 907 00:45:14,953 --> 00:45:16,955 day after day after day. 908 00:45:19,302 --> 00:45:21,684 When we were recording The Wanderers album, 909 00:45:21,684 --> 00:45:23,859 Stiv had introduced me to smack. 910 00:45:23,859 --> 00:45:26,378 And we were recording at Trident Studios, 911 00:45:26,378 --> 00:45:29,623 where Bowie did Ziggy Stardust. 912 00:45:29,623 --> 00:45:31,832 One night I crashed down, and Stiv woke me up, 913 00:45:31,832 --> 00:45:33,903 and he says, he says Dave, 914 00:45:35,111 --> 00:45:39,771 I think it's time for you to try some smack. 915 00:45:39,771 --> 00:45:40,634 Oh fuck, 916 00:45:42,118 --> 00:45:44,880 then we went out and left on an American tour. 917 00:45:49,539 --> 00:45:51,403 And when we got to the States on this American tour, 918 00:45:51,403 --> 00:45:52,991 Stiv introduced me to 919 00:45:54,268 --> 00:45:56,339 probably New York's most notorious junkie, 920 00:45:56,339 --> 00:45:57,547 a guy called Spacely. 921 00:45:59,998 --> 00:46:02,690 He was hanging out with Thunders, and people like that. 922 00:46:02,690 --> 00:46:05,383 And of course Mister Spacely 923 00:46:05,383 --> 00:46:07,799 introduced me to the old needle. 924 00:46:07,799 --> 00:46:12,079 So, I'm not saying anything against Stiv on that. 925 00:46:12,079 --> 00:46:14,702 I flipping take responsibility for my own actions, 926 00:46:14,702 --> 00:46:17,878 but anyway, I was now flipping shooting up, 927 00:46:17,878 --> 00:46:19,535 and flipping drinking, 928 00:46:19,535 --> 00:46:21,848 and flipping everything to excess. 929 00:46:21,848 --> 00:46:24,402 By the time the tour finished, 930 00:46:24,402 --> 00:46:28,406 I got back home, and I ended up in isolation ward, 931 00:46:28,406 --> 00:46:30,718 in hospital, people coming in to see me, 932 00:46:30,718 --> 00:46:32,790 had little white masks, 933 00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:33,721 and flipping gloves. 934 00:46:33,721 --> 00:46:35,102 This is in the days when they 935 00:46:35,102 --> 00:46:36,345 didn't really know that much about 936 00:46:36,345 --> 00:46:38,623 the different types of hepatitis and stuff. 937 00:46:38,623 --> 00:46:40,659 - It was a very brief period in time. 938 00:46:40,659 --> 00:46:42,385 He fell out with the manager really. 939 00:46:42,385 --> 00:46:44,146 Thinks weren't right with it. 940 00:46:44,146 --> 00:46:46,010 People didn't accept it easily, 941 00:46:46,010 --> 00:46:49,979 but I think it was a sea change in Stiv's life, 942 00:46:49,979 --> 00:46:51,947 because he came to England, 943 00:46:51,947 --> 00:46:55,882 and he came up with some very different style lyrics 944 00:46:55,882 --> 00:46:57,538 for that Wanderers album, 945 00:46:57,538 --> 00:47:00,645 that really stand up the test of time. 946 00:47:00,645 --> 00:47:02,371 - They released me from hospital, 947 00:47:02,371 --> 00:47:05,443 and Rick Goldstein came over, 948 00:47:05,443 --> 00:47:09,136 and said, it's a shame about the band isn't it, Dave? 949 00:47:09,136 --> 00:47:10,655 I said, what do you mean? 950 00:47:10,655 --> 00:47:13,900 Dave Tregunna and Stiv have gone off with Brian James. 951 00:47:13,900 --> 00:47:16,592 There you go fucking, it all fell into place. 952 00:47:16,592 --> 00:47:20,044 And, at that point, I was fucking gutted, you know. 953 00:47:56,425 --> 00:47:59,842 - Stiv's lyrics, were really kind of ahead of their time. 954 00:48:00,912 --> 00:48:02,465 There's a song called, Open Your Eyes, 955 00:48:02,465 --> 00:48:05,054 which is, the opening lyrics are. 956 00:48:10,957 --> 00:48:12,268 Now that was written, 957 00:48:12,268 --> 00:48:14,305 in the early 80's, 958 00:48:14,305 --> 00:48:18,033 and 35 years on, it seems just as relevant, 959 00:48:18,033 --> 00:48:19,620 or even more relevant, today. 960 00:48:24,487 --> 00:48:25,730 - He was a great lyricist, 961 00:48:25,730 --> 00:48:29,734 and he was also a great borrower of lyrics, 962 00:48:29,734 --> 00:48:31,460 so I only realize lately, 963 00:48:31,460 --> 00:48:34,912 because I had never listened to the Lords of the New Church, 964 00:48:34,912 --> 00:48:39,123 that a song that I had written in 1977, 965 00:48:39,123 --> 00:48:44,128 yes 1977, called, The Little Boy Who Played With Dolls, 966 00:48:45,232 --> 00:48:47,303 that Stiv had actually taken that, 967 00:48:47,303 --> 00:48:49,719 and many of the lyrics are the same, 968 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:50,962 so I was shocked to hear that, 969 00:48:50,962 --> 00:48:52,722 a friend had played it for me. 970 00:48:52,722 --> 00:48:55,346 - When it came to songwriting credits, 971 00:48:55,346 --> 00:48:57,969 he would steal songwriting credits, 972 00:48:57,969 --> 00:48:59,937 and you wouldn't know it until the record was printed, 973 00:48:59,937 --> 00:49:01,110 and it was too late. 974 00:49:03,319 --> 00:49:05,908 - We're part of the Beatles, we're from London, England. 975 00:49:05,908 --> 00:49:07,461 - They had everything going for them. 976 00:49:08,704 --> 00:49:11,603 They had the album, they had the deal, they had 977 00:49:11,603 --> 00:49:13,502 Miles Copeland, who was backing them, 978 00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:16,643 and everything was going really well. 979 00:49:17,816 --> 00:49:21,682 The first album, the whole goth image was, 980 00:49:21,682 --> 00:49:23,443 I think they found it difficult to live up to, 981 00:49:23,443 --> 00:49:26,135 because none of them were really 982 00:49:26,135 --> 00:49:28,448 came from that goth area at all. 983 00:49:28,448 --> 00:49:31,623 - They succumbed a lot to 80's cheesiness. 984 00:49:31,623 --> 00:49:33,556 They kind of looked like they were wearing costumes, 985 00:49:33,556 --> 00:49:34,695 and not clothing. 986 00:49:35,765 --> 00:49:37,871 The production values, the Lords 987 00:49:37,871 --> 00:49:39,666 weren't the only band guilty of it. 988 00:49:40,978 --> 00:49:44,498 Their production techniques were very cheesy. 989 00:49:44,498 --> 00:49:46,052 At the time I had mixed feelings. 990 00:49:46,052 --> 00:49:47,812 I was happy for Stiv, 991 00:49:47,812 --> 00:49:49,262 because he'd worked so hard to get 992 00:49:49,262 --> 00:49:51,816 that kind of recognition, that kind of success, 993 00:49:51,816 --> 00:49:53,680 but I was jealous of him, too, 994 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,095 because I was back in Cleveland 995 00:49:55,095 --> 00:49:57,822 struggling with my own music, and getting nowhere. 996 00:49:57,822 --> 00:49:59,927 And all of a sudden, I see Stiv on MTV, 997 00:49:59,927 --> 00:50:03,517 so I'm very ambivalent about him doing this. 998 00:50:05,002 --> 00:50:07,763 On one hand, wow, look it, there's my friend on MTV. 999 00:50:07,763 --> 00:50:09,247 Look at that. 1000 00:50:09,247 --> 00:50:11,939 On the other hand, that son of a bitch is on MTV. 1001 00:50:11,939 --> 00:50:12,768 - To me, 1002 00:50:14,149 --> 00:50:15,598 it was Stiv and the guys, 1003 00:50:15,598 --> 00:50:16,806 Dead Boys, everybody. 1004 00:50:16,806 --> 00:50:19,602 The difference was, The Dead Boys 1005 00:50:19,602 --> 00:50:21,811 were all very fine musicians, 1006 00:50:21,811 --> 00:50:24,642 very very very fine musicians. 1007 00:50:24,642 --> 00:50:28,301 The Lords were just typical drummer, 1008 00:50:28,301 --> 00:50:30,993 James, he was not the guitar god. 1009 00:50:30,993 --> 00:50:32,650 Cheetah was a guitar god. 1010 00:50:32,650 --> 00:50:33,858 So, what do you have? 1011 00:50:33,858 --> 00:50:36,792 You have Stiv is the lead performer, 1012 00:50:36,792 --> 00:50:41,072 big voice, bigger than life persona, 1013 00:50:41,072 --> 00:50:43,971 and he was carrying the show on his shoulders. 1014 00:50:43,971 --> 00:50:46,284 - There was one number we played called, Holy War. 1015 00:50:46,284 --> 00:50:49,046 So, all of a sudden in the middle bit of Holy War, 1016 00:50:49,046 --> 00:50:50,323 where Stiv got something, 1017 00:50:50,323 --> 00:50:52,359 when the band carried on this riff, jamming. 1018 00:50:53,257 --> 00:50:55,190 Stiv leaps off the stage, 1019 00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:59,573 and goes and grabs one of the people out the wheelchair, 1020 00:50:59,573 --> 00:51:02,921 and starts dragging them, and trying to get them onstage. 1021 00:51:02,921 --> 00:51:04,751 And they're kind of freaking out like this, 1022 00:51:04,751 --> 00:51:06,235 and I'm playing the bass thinking, 1023 00:51:06,235 --> 00:51:09,894 Stiv you've really gone too far this time, you know. 1024 00:51:09,894 --> 00:51:12,138 So he manages to drag this guy up, 1025 00:51:12,138 --> 00:51:15,037 who couldn't walk, onto the stage, 1026 00:51:15,037 --> 00:51:16,625 and starts blessing him, 1027 00:51:16,625 --> 00:51:18,696 and all of a sudden the guys gets up 1028 00:51:18,696 --> 00:51:20,663 and starts leaping around like that. 1029 00:51:20,663 --> 00:51:22,079 And it had been a big windup, 1030 00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:24,529 Stiv had had one of his mates sitting in a wheelchair, 1031 00:51:24,529 --> 00:51:27,877 all through the set, not tell anything to the band, 1032 00:51:27,877 --> 00:51:30,501 and dragged him up to freak everyone out, 1033 00:51:30,501 --> 00:51:32,399 including the rest of the band. 1034 00:51:33,711 --> 00:51:36,196 So Stiv had this brilliant sense of humor. 1035 00:51:37,646 --> 00:51:40,649 - Stiv was married to a lady by the name of Stacy, 1036 00:51:40,649 --> 00:51:44,031 who, although she was an interesting lady, 1037 00:51:45,516 --> 00:51:47,104 she was very good for Stiv, 1038 00:51:47,104 --> 00:51:48,829 and although there were issues there, 1039 00:51:48,829 --> 00:51:50,521 and particularly at the end, 1040 00:51:50,521 --> 00:51:54,007 and I think in a way, unfortunately, she broke his heart. 1041 00:51:54,007 --> 00:51:56,458 I think that was his soulmate in many ways, 1042 00:51:56,458 --> 00:51:57,976 and I think he lost the focus, 1043 00:51:57,976 --> 00:52:02,015 I think he lost his raison d'etre, 1044 00:52:02,015 --> 00:52:05,329 and I think it hurt him, and after that, 1045 00:52:05,329 --> 00:52:07,400 and this is around Method to the Madness, 1046 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,126 the lyrics weren't as focused, 1047 00:52:09,126 --> 00:52:11,058 and the sound wasn't as focused, 1048 00:52:11,058 --> 00:52:14,510 and he wasn't as passionate about all this stuff. 1049 00:52:15,822 --> 00:52:19,412 - And at that time, Andy McCoy, from Hanoi Rocks, 1050 00:52:19,412 --> 00:52:22,311 had formed a band called The Cherry Bombs, 1051 00:52:22,311 --> 00:52:25,314 and wanted me as bass player. 1052 00:52:27,385 --> 00:52:29,525 Stiv was living with Mike Monroe, 1053 00:52:29,525 --> 00:52:32,563 and the two of them were total movie freaks, 1054 00:52:32,563 --> 00:52:36,049 so they would love to stay up for many days, 1055 00:52:37,499 --> 00:52:41,434 helped by substances that keep you up for many days. 1056 00:52:41,434 --> 00:52:45,438 And then they would crash for, in Mike's case, 1057 00:52:45,438 --> 00:52:48,406 probably a day, and Stiv, five days. 1058 00:52:48,406 --> 00:52:50,443 Stiv was in a bad way I thought, 1059 00:52:50,443 --> 00:52:53,446 he was really, didn't seem to care. 1060 00:52:53,446 --> 00:52:57,104 He'd lost it, and he was doing a lot of heavy stuff. 1061 00:53:00,349 --> 00:53:02,765 And he said, Dave, I think you're doing the right thing. 1062 00:53:02,765 --> 00:53:03,594 Good luck. 1063 00:53:05,423 --> 00:53:06,769 And that was it. 1064 00:53:19,126 --> 00:53:21,957 - The first tour I did with them was the, 1065 00:53:21,957 --> 00:53:23,717 promoting the Lords really, 1066 00:53:23,717 --> 00:53:25,995 which was like the compilation of the three, 1067 00:53:25,995 --> 00:53:28,205 let's say, a greatest hits, by any other name, 1068 00:53:28,205 --> 00:53:30,207 but like the first three albums. 1069 00:53:32,001 --> 00:53:34,349 As I say, massive tour of the States, 1070 00:53:34,349 --> 00:53:36,799 practically sold out wherever we went. 1071 00:53:36,799 --> 00:53:39,043 I mean, fantastic shows. 1072 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:41,735 There'd been some kind of argument, 1073 00:53:41,735 --> 00:53:45,739 and we were all in a van, 1074 00:53:45,739 --> 00:53:49,467 sitting outside to leave this show, 1075 00:53:49,467 --> 00:53:53,989 and Stiv was messing around outside, in his normal fashion, 1076 00:53:53,989 --> 00:53:55,853 and the band were getting pissed off. 1077 00:53:57,164 --> 00:53:59,995 Then suddenly he got on the kind of front, 1078 00:53:59,995 --> 00:54:03,826 of the, it's like a mini-van we were touring around in. 1079 00:54:05,207 --> 00:54:08,935 And he was sort of just jumping about on that, 1080 00:54:08,935 --> 00:54:10,488 and I say, I think it might have been Nick who said, 1081 00:54:10,488 --> 00:54:11,489 Stiv get in! 1082 00:54:13,077 --> 00:54:16,011 And you just watched, like he sort of disappeared 1083 00:54:16,011 --> 00:54:16,943 for a split second, 1084 00:54:18,082 --> 00:54:19,704 his legs went up in the air, 1085 00:54:19,704 --> 00:54:23,536 and then he just came crashing through the windscreen. 1086 00:54:23,536 --> 00:54:26,711 And he sort of landed, and all the glass was all over us. 1087 00:54:26,711 --> 00:54:29,990 And it's just that, I was like, 1088 00:54:29,990 --> 00:54:30,991 what the fuck? 1089 00:54:32,579 --> 00:54:35,133 And then suddenly, it's Stiv what the fuck are you doing? 1090 00:54:35,133 --> 00:54:37,998 He says, oh you guys, I thought you was in a hurry. 1091 00:54:39,137 --> 00:54:40,829 - And Stiv was heading down 1092 00:54:40,829 --> 00:54:42,831 unfortunately into sort of a cul-de-sac, 1093 00:54:43,694 --> 00:54:45,282 which was really hard to watch. 1094 00:54:45,282 --> 00:54:47,076 Brian had his own issues, as well, 1095 00:54:47,076 --> 00:54:49,182 and the two of them weren't getting along. 1096 00:54:49,182 --> 00:54:51,149 None of us were getting along, it's the truth. 1097 00:54:51,149 --> 00:54:54,774 I mean we were just self-destructive. 1098 00:54:54,774 --> 00:54:57,294 We'd play in LA, and we wouldn't be very good. 1099 00:54:57,294 --> 00:54:59,088 All the press would be there, 1100 00:54:59,088 --> 00:55:02,022 MTV would be there, we weren't great that night, 1101 00:55:02,022 --> 00:55:05,163 but boy the next night in Pomona, we were incredible. 1102 00:55:06,303 --> 00:55:07,787 - I hadn't heard from him in a while, 1103 00:55:07,787 --> 00:55:08,995 and I was living in LA, 1104 00:55:08,995 --> 00:55:11,031 and I saw in the paper they were playing 1105 00:55:11,894 --> 00:55:13,379 in a couple of bars around LA, 1106 00:55:13,379 --> 00:55:15,829 but I noticed one of them was this truck stop 1107 00:55:15,829 --> 00:55:19,557 out towards Riverside, or Barstow, California. 1108 00:55:19,557 --> 00:55:23,699 Just this out of the way truck stop motel place. 1109 00:55:23,699 --> 00:55:24,735 Things weren't going well, 1110 00:55:24,735 --> 00:55:25,977 I think the Lords were, 1111 00:55:25,977 --> 00:55:28,911 he was getting tired and burned out on it, 1112 00:55:28,911 --> 00:55:31,224 and things weren't going well. 1113 00:55:31,224 --> 00:55:33,813 And he didn't seem very happy. 1114 00:55:33,813 --> 00:55:36,056 And then I said Stiv, what's wrong, 1115 00:55:36,056 --> 00:55:37,644 how you doing man? 1116 00:55:37,644 --> 00:55:39,819 And he basically looked at me, and he said, 1117 00:55:39,819 --> 00:55:42,684 you know, if I had to do this all over again, I wouldn't. 1118 00:56:08,468 --> 00:56:11,782 - Steph, shock, horror, 1119 00:56:11,782 --> 00:56:12,955 I can write. 1120 00:56:12,955 --> 00:56:15,061 No, it's not Johnny. 1121 00:56:15,061 --> 00:56:17,995 I'll be in the States by the time you get this. 1122 00:56:17,995 --> 00:56:20,204 The Dead boys rise from the grave. 1123 00:56:20,204 --> 00:56:24,001 Halloween's Eve at the Ritz in New York City. 1124 00:56:24,001 --> 00:56:26,969 I may be in Ohio at my mom and dad's. 1125 00:56:26,969 --> 00:56:29,558 You can also track me through Geoff Jones. 1126 00:56:29,558 --> 00:56:32,458 Get me, if you can, Stiv. 1127 00:56:32,458 --> 00:56:34,701 - When you had a band like the Dead Boys, 1128 00:56:34,701 --> 00:56:35,978 they're so high energy, 1129 00:56:38,291 --> 00:56:39,396 they're so aggressive, 1130 00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,400 I don't think you can just pick up your instruments, 1131 00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:47,334 and rehearse a few times and then achieve 1132 00:56:47,334 --> 00:56:49,060 what you did 1133 00:56:49,060 --> 00:56:53,375 when you were young, loud, and snotty, you know? 1134 00:56:53,375 --> 00:56:55,791 - I think we all wanted that, to have that, 1135 00:56:55,791 --> 00:56:57,275 for the rest of our lives, 1136 00:56:57,275 --> 00:56:59,485 what we had in the Dead Boys, the good parts of it. 1137 00:56:59,485 --> 00:57:00,762 We were a gang, 1138 00:57:01,625 --> 00:57:03,109 and we wanted that, and we knew 1139 00:57:03,109 --> 00:57:05,283 we would never have that again, 1140 00:57:05,283 --> 00:57:08,977 because we were too old, and that was of its time. 1141 00:57:08,977 --> 00:57:13,084 But we never stopped wanting to go back to that time, 1142 00:57:13,084 --> 00:57:15,155 and it caused us, 1143 00:57:15,155 --> 00:57:18,262 those emotions caused us to make a lot of bad decisions. 1144 00:57:18,262 --> 00:57:19,815 We tried to recapture the past, 1145 00:57:19,815 --> 00:57:21,092 and I think he learned, 1146 00:57:21,092 --> 00:57:23,819 more than anyone, that you couldn't. 1147 00:57:23,819 --> 00:57:26,166 He was also in a long decline, 1148 00:57:26,166 --> 00:57:28,859 that started I think, I noticed it personally, 1149 00:57:28,859 --> 00:57:31,793 when he was in The Wanderers, before the Lords. 1150 00:57:31,793 --> 00:57:35,037 He started a decline, he started to change, 1151 00:57:35,037 --> 00:57:36,763 and by the time he left the Lords, 1152 00:57:36,763 --> 00:57:38,765 when we would go on the road, 1153 00:57:38,765 --> 00:57:41,250 it was really depressing for me, 1154 00:57:41,250 --> 00:57:45,496 only because I, by then, really loved him. 1155 00:57:45,496 --> 00:57:48,810 And he was kind of like Elvis. 1156 00:57:52,089 --> 00:57:54,988 Stiv was worn out. 1157 00:57:54,988 --> 00:57:58,267 He was kind of done with the Lords before he left, 1158 00:57:58,267 --> 00:57:59,648 and I think, from what I've heard, 1159 00:57:59,648 --> 00:58:01,995 there were kind of done with him. 1160 00:58:01,995 --> 00:58:04,653 But, he didn't know what else to do. 1161 00:58:07,553 --> 00:58:10,487 - This is Stiv Bators, of the Lords of the New Church. 1162 00:58:10,487 --> 00:58:13,179 I'm here with Brian James, Danny Fury, 1163 00:58:13,179 --> 00:58:15,215 and Dave Tregunna. 1164 00:58:15,215 --> 00:58:18,874 - And then when Stiv and Brian decided that 1165 00:58:18,874 --> 00:58:22,084 they wanted to reform the band, and Nicky, the drummer, 1166 00:58:22,084 --> 00:58:24,501 was already in Los Angeles, 1167 00:58:24,501 --> 00:58:26,779 and wasn't coming back to England, 1168 00:58:26,779 --> 00:58:29,713 so Dave, you wanna get back together? 1169 00:58:29,713 --> 00:58:30,852 We need a drummer. 1170 00:58:30,852 --> 00:58:32,370 And I'd hooked up with Danny. 1171 00:58:33,544 --> 00:58:36,374 - And we've recently reformed the group, 1172 00:58:37,548 --> 00:58:39,205 with a new drummer. 1173 00:58:39,205 --> 00:58:40,206 - Mister Danny Fury. 1174 00:58:42,519 --> 00:58:44,417 - And we're going back to our original sound. 1175 00:58:44,417 --> 00:58:45,763 That's the best thing to say about the group. 1176 00:58:45,763 --> 00:58:48,041 We've gone back to 1177 00:58:48,041 --> 00:58:49,940 the original act of the band, 1178 00:58:49,940 --> 00:58:51,528 and the original identity. 1179 00:58:51,528 --> 00:58:52,805 - Yeah, that was the plan. 1180 00:58:54,358 --> 00:58:55,808 And then it all went wrong. 1181 00:58:56,981 --> 00:58:58,914 - I remember Brian saying to me, 1182 00:58:58,914 --> 00:59:01,089 all right you're in the band, 1183 00:59:01,089 --> 00:59:02,400 we're gonna go on tour very soon. 1184 00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,575 How many rehearsals do you need, one or two? 1185 00:59:18,106 --> 00:59:23,111 ♪ There's no savior out there 1186 00:59:24,422 --> 00:59:29,427 ♪ There ain't nobody else who cares ♪ 1187 00:59:30,636 --> 00:59:35,468 ♪ Don't look to me for absolution ♪ 1188 00:59:37,194 --> 00:59:42,199 ♪ There ain't no clandestine solution ♪ 1189 00:59:43,649 --> 00:59:46,513 ♪ Life's a crime of passion 1190 00:59:46,513 --> 00:59:50,138 ♪ Designed for direct action 1191 00:59:50,138 --> 00:59:53,244 ♪ There ain't no justice out there ♪ 1192 00:59:53,244 --> 00:59:56,454 ♪ This is the Lord's prayer 1193 00:59:56,454 --> 00:59:59,354 ♪ Ain't nobody actually cares 1194 00:59:59,354 --> 01:00:03,013 ♪ This is the Lord's prayer 1195 01:00:04,842 --> 01:00:07,914 - Stiv and Brian were the force behind the music, 1196 01:00:07,914 --> 01:00:09,847 and I think they separated. 1197 01:00:09,847 --> 01:00:11,884 There might have been some issues, 1198 01:00:11,884 --> 01:00:16,889 with Brian, not wanting Stiv to do what Stiv was doing, 1199 01:00:18,338 --> 01:00:20,617 and Stiv not wanting Brian to do what Brian was doing, 1200 01:00:20,617 --> 01:00:23,033 namely different kinds of substances, 1201 01:00:24,206 --> 01:00:27,831 and I don't think Brian, or his wife, 1202 01:00:27,831 --> 01:00:31,973 warmed to Stiv's girlfriend at the time, Caroline. 1203 01:00:34,700 --> 01:00:37,047 That started to make a rift, 1204 01:00:37,047 --> 01:00:39,325 but it was totally exaggerated, 1205 01:00:39,325 --> 01:00:43,294 when we had booked a whole European tour. 1206 01:00:44,813 --> 01:00:46,125 Stiv was living in Paris, 1207 01:00:46,125 --> 01:00:47,782 and the rest of us were in London, 1208 01:00:49,887 --> 01:00:53,684 and Stiv suddenly called up and said 1209 01:00:53,684 --> 01:00:57,308 that he couldn't do the gigs of the tour, 1210 01:00:57,308 --> 01:00:58,482 he'd hurt his back. 1211 01:00:59,863 --> 01:01:02,659 - He was definitely always going to the limit, 1212 01:01:02,659 --> 01:01:04,350 to his limit you know, 1213 01:01:04,350 --> 01:01:07,387 sort of giving it his all, and more you know, 1214 01:01:08,250 --> 01:01:09,838 and actually to the point 1215 01:01:09,838 --> 01:01:12,185 where he really hurt himself physically, 1216 01:01:12,185 --> 01:01:14,015 just banging himself up onstage. 1217 01:01:15,672 --> 01:01:19,537 - Brian came to me and said, I've spoken to Stiv, 1218 01:01:19,537 --> 01:01:21,678 and I'm pissed off with him, 1219 01:01:21,678 --> 01:01:25,440 because someone told me they'd seen him out clubbing, 1220 01:01:26,613 --> 01:01:28,132 and he's supposed to have a bad back, 1221 01:01:28,132 --> 01:01:29,444 yet he went out clubbing. 1222 01:01:52,501 --> 01:01:54,987 - And apparently Stiv said to Brian, 1223 01:01:54,987 --> 01:01:56,540 I can't do those gigs, 1224 01:01:56,540 --> 01:01:59,888 why don't you get someone else to stand in for me? 1225 01:01:59,888 --> 01:02:02,373 And that's what Brian told me Stiv had told him. 1226 01:02:02,373 --> 01:02:03,961 Later on, Stiv denied that. 1227 01:02:03,961 --> 01:02:06,481 Stiv said that Brian had just gone 1228 01:02:06,481 --> 01:02:08,621 and advertised for a new singer, 1229 01:02:08,621 --> 01:02:10,554 so Brian said to me, 1230 01:02:11,417 --> 01:02:13,764 we've got to do these gigs. 1231 01:02:13,764 --> 01:02:15,732 Why don't we get a different singer in? 1232 01:02:15,732 --> 01:02:16,871 And I was thinking well, 1233 01:02:16,871 --> 01:02:18,320 how are we gonna replace Stiv? 1234 01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,082 I said, let's at least give it a try. 1235 01:02:21,082 --> 01:02:23,463 Let's go into a rehearsal room, 1236 01:02:23,463 --> 01:02:24,810 audition a few people. 1237 01:02:24,810 --> 01:02:27,536 So, Brian put this advert out. 1238 01:02:27,536 --> 01:02:28,986 - I think Stiv saw that ad, 1239 01:02:28,986 --> 01:02:30,885 and got really really really upset. 1240 01:02:32,507 --> 01:02:34,267 - He said to me, Stiv had said, 1241 01:02:34,267 --> 01:02:35,510 why don't you go ahead? 1242 01:02:35,510 --> 01:02:37,684 Now maybe Stiv was being sarcastic, 1243 01:02:37,684 --> 01:02:39,721 maybe he misunderstood it, or what. 1244 01:02:39,721 --> 01:02:41,654 Anyway, we auditioned a load of people, 1245 01:02:43,483 --> 01:02:45,347 and we thought, no way. 1246 01:02:45,347 --> 01:02:48,281 There's no way any of these live up to Stiv, 1247 01:02:48,281 --> 01:02:50,628 we ended up canceling the bloody tours anyway, 1248 01:02:50,628 --> 01:02:53,321 but Stiv had said he'd do the Astoria. 1249 01:02:53,321 --> 01:02:56,117 When we did the Astoria gig, 1250 01:02:56,117 --> 01:03:00,086 Stiv didn't turn up for the sound check or anything, 1251 01:03:00,086 --> 01:03:01,329 he just turned up late, 1252 01:03:01,329 --> 01:03:03,538 and he said he was gonna be late, 1253 01:03:03,538 --> 01:03:06,990 and he turned up, and he was quite friendly to us, 1254 01:03:06,990 --> 01:03:10,614 didn't give any hint that he was gonna do what he did do. 1255 01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:37,675 - He slipped and put on a T-shirt with a printed ad on it. 1256 01:03:37,675 --> 01:03:39,125 And fucking walked onstage and walked up. 1257 01:03:41,403 --> 01:03:42,542 Name band, singer. 1258 01:03:44,372 --> 01:03:47,513 - So I did laugh and just thought, what a fantastic stunt, 1259 01:03:47,513 --> 01:03:49,584 and only Stiv would do that. 1260 01:03:49,584 --> 01:03:51,068 Unbelievable. 1261 01:03:51,068 --> 01:03:53,174 - And then he just fucked off right after the gig. 1262 01:03:53,174 --> 01:03:54,727 He didn't even go backstage. 1263 01:03:54,727 --> 01:03:57,178 He was out of there before we knew what was going on. 1264 01:03:59,456 --> 01:04:01,423 And that was the end of the Lords. 1265 01:04:33,007 --> 01:04:37,149 - I spoke to him a lot the last couple of years of his life, 1266 01:04:37,149 --> 01:04:39,392 like maybe two or three times a month, 1267 01:04:39,392 --> 01:04:41,463 which is a lot, when he's living in Paris, 1268 01:04:41,463 --> 01:04:42,879 and I'm living in Cleveland. 1269 01:04:44,225 --> 01:04:48,401 He had changed drastically. 1270 01:04:50,196 --> 01:04:55,201 I think he was giving in to a reality that he was dying, 1271 01:04:56,547 --> 01:04:58,411 physically, dying. 1272 01:04:58,411 --> 01:05:01,587 I think he was giving in to a reality that 1273 01:05:02,899 --> 01:05:05,867 he wasn't sure if he had the energy, 1274 01:05:05,867 --> 01:05:09,629 or the desire even, to do another project. 1275 01:05:11,010 --> 01:05:15,187 I'm not assuming any of this, he told me this stuff. 1276 01:07:11,027 --> 01:07:13,512 - She tried to get him to go to the hospital, 1277 01:07:13,512 --> 01:07:15,169 because he was hit by a car. 1278 01:07:15,169 --> 01:07:17,136 They'd gone out shopping, 1279 01:07:17,136 --> 01:07:19,932 and he was hit by a taxi, I think. 1280 01:07:19,932 --> 01:07:23,039 And he just thought he'd had an out-of-body experience, 1281 01:07:23,039 --> 01:07:26,490 and he was gonna be all right. 1282 01:07:26,490 --> 01:07:29,597 - I think the postmortem situation was 1283 01:07:29,597 --> 01:07:33,773 that it was internal bleeding, hemorrhaging, and so on, 1284 01:07:33,773 --> 01:07:35,913 and the next thing I know, 1285 01:07:35,913 --> 01:07:40,056 I've get me and Jim at . 1286 01:08:04,770 --> 01:08:07,497 - He always had this dangerous thing about him, 1287 01:08:07,497 --> 01:08:09,740 his whole career, the whole time I knew him, 1288 01:08:09,740 --> 01:08:13,296 where he thought that Jim Morrison dying, 1289 01:08:13,296 --> 01:08:16,471 really made Jim Morrison a bigger, 1290 01:08:16,471 --> 01:08:18,749 larger than life legend than he would have been, 1291 01:08:18,749 --> 01:08:19,992 had he lived. 1292 01:08:19,992 --> 01:08:22,098 And he would tell me all the time, 1293 01:08:22,098 --> 01:08:23,375 I thought he was joking. 1294 01:08:23,375 --> 01:08:24,583 I have to die soon, 1295 01:08:24,583 --> 01:08:28,104 so that I can make sure my legend lives on. 1296 01:08:28,104 --> 01:08:29,381 And I would go, yeah sure. 1297 01:08:30,865 --> 01:08:35,249 But, I think that part of him actually did want that, death. 1298 01:08:35,249 --> 01:08:38,321 - At the end of the 80's, he was kind of burned out on life. 1299 01:08:38,321 --> 01:08:42,566 He was burning the candle and both ends for decades now. 1300 01:08:44,465 --> 01:08:49,435 That guy did more than most people would do in 10 lifetimes. 1301 01:08:49,435 --> 01:08:52,162 So I think it was almost inevitable 1302 01:08:52,162 --> 01:08:53,577 that something would happen. 1303 01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:57,823 He had always pushed it to the limit, 1304 01:08:57,823 --> 01:08:59,342 and then went beyond the limit. 1305 01:09:25,954 --> 01:09:28,957 - It was like 50, 60 people waiting, 1306 01:09:30,442 --> 01:09:31,822 fans, friends. 1307 01:09:34,825 --> 01:09:36,896 Waiting at the columns by . 1308 01:09:39,382 --> 01:09:41,211 When the hearse arrived, 1309 01:09:43,593 --> 01:09:48,598 the band, his band, the Lords, and some friends, six people, 1310 01:09:50,047 --> 01:09:52,671 they were goosestepping the coffin into the room. 1311 01:09:54,259 --> 01:09:55,121 I was shocked. 1312 01:09:57,641 --> 01:10:01,266 - I remember, as do several other people I've spoken to, 1313 01:10:01,266 --> 01:10:04,579 at some point, when you're in a van with Stiv, 1314 01:10:04,579 --> 01:10:07,237 traveling for miles and miles on the road, 1315 01:10:08,238 --> 01:10:10,067 and Stiv starts chatting to you, 1316 01:10:10,067 --> 01:10:12,000 and at one point he says to you, 1317 01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:15,314 you know what, I've taken so many drugs in my life, 1318 01:10:15,314 --> 01:10:17,592 I think when I die I want to be cremated, 1319 01:10:17,592 --> 01:10:20,595 and I want you to snort my ashes, to see if you get high. 1320 01:10:21,976 --> 01:10:25,393 So, I can't remember exactly when he said it to me, 1321 01:10:25,393 --> 01:10:27,084 but he definitely said it, 1322 01:10:27,084 --> 01:10:30,743 and then after he died and was cremated, 1323 01:10:30,743 --> 01:10:33,919 his wife said, Stiv wanted people to do this, 1324 01:10:33,919 --> 01:10:36,024 and we all said, well yeah he said that to me, 1325 01:10:36,024 --> 01:10:37,233 he said that to me. 1326 01:10:37,233 --> 01:10:38,579 So let's snort your ashes, so we did. 1327 01:10:40,650 --> 01:10:43,239 And it hurt like hell. 1328 01:10:43,239 --> 01:10:45,724 - Boy it hurt real bad, that really hurt bad, 1329 01:10:45,724 --> 01:10:49,590 because he was cremated in his leather stuff, 1330 01:10:49,590 --> 01:10:53,387 with all his skull jewelry, his jewelry, his silver jewelry. 1331 01:10:53,387 --> 01:10:56,424 So you can only imagine what we were snorting, 1332 01:10:56,424 --> 01:10:59,669 it really did hurt for some hours. 1333 01:11:06,262 --> 01:11:09,023 - So Steven J Bator, Junior, 1334 01:11:09,023 --> 01:11:13,234 the most infuriating, impossible, frustrating, 1335 01:11:13,234 --> 01:11:16,237 little evil weasel I've ever come across. 1336 01:11:16,237 --> 01:11:17,273 I miss him every day. 1337 01:11:18,688 --> 01:11:20,897 - Stiv to me, I loved the mystery of Stiv. 1338 01:11:22,105 --> 01:11:25,039 That dichotomy of characters between 1339 01:11:25,039 --> 01:11:28,836 the little prick and the fascinating, 1340 01:11:28,836 --> 01:11:30,803 intelligent, guy he could be, 1341 01:11:30,803 --> 01:11:32,874 or the daredevil Stiv. 1342 01:11:32,874 --> 01:11:36,706 - If he was like he was onstage, all the time, 1343 01:11:36,706 --> 01:11:38,915 he wouldn't have lived to be 18 years old. 1344 01:11:38,915 --> 01:11:42,298 He was very different than people think he was. 1345 01:11:42,298 --> 01:11:44,576 He was nice. 1346 01:11:44,576 --> 01:11:46,612 I think as front man he had the kind of, 1347 01:11:48,959 --> 01:11:52,411 genuine, do what it takes, go for it, kind of thing. 1348 01:11:52,411 --> 01:11:53,619 He would hang himself, 1349 01:11:53,619 --> 01:11:55,069 he would crawl into the bass drum, 1350 01:11:56,277 --> 01:11:57,968 he really had the reckless abandon 1351 01:11:57,968 --> 01:12:00,039 of a true front man. 1352 01:12:00,039 --> 01:12:02,456 - He was really really entertaining to watch, 1353 01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:06,149 and I think like, 1354 01:12:06,149 --> 01:12:08,462 other than maybe a few other guys, 1355 01:12:09,601 --> 01:12:11,844 like Iggy Pop, and maybe Alice, 1356 01:12:11,844 --> 01:12:14,260 and guys he looked up to, 1357 01:12:14,260 --> 01:12:16,228 he was definitely up there with those guys. 1358 01:12:16,228 --> 01:12:18,782 He was unbelievable to watch. 1359 01:12:18,782 --> 01:12:23,787 - I think he was a truly touching and legendary person, 1360 01:12:24,892 --> 01:12:29,310 who like a very small group of people, 1361 01:12:30,173 --> 01:12:31,830 from that space and time, 1362 01:12:31,830 --> 01:12:35,074 gave everything that they had to rock and roll, 1363 01:12:35,074 --> 01:12:37,145 were the spirit of rock and roll, 1364 01:12:37,145 --> 01:12:39,596 understood the spirit of rock and roll, 1365 01:12:39,596 --> 01:12:42,116 and we're not gonna find, 1366 01:12:42,116 --> 01:12:45,084 there's gonna be no more Stivs, that was it, 1367 01:12:45,084 --> 01:12:49,261 he was a one off, and an absolutely joyous creature, 1368 01:12:49,261 --> 01:12:54,266 and I'm very glad that I had the opportunity to meet him. 1369 01:12:55,647 --> 01:12:57,407 - Stiv used to go on about conspiracy theories, 1370 01:12:57,407 --> 01:13:01,894 and this idea that three men controlled the whole world, 1371 01:13:01,894 --> 01:13:03,137 and that corporations 1372 01:13:03,137 --> 01:13:05,795 were really in charge, not politicians. 1373 01:13:05,795 --> 01:13:09,005 And you can go back and listen to some of his interviews, 1374 01:13:09,005 --> 01:13:10,213 where he talked about this, 1375 01:13:10,213 --> 01:13:11,559 and we all rolled our eyes at the time, 1376 01:13:11,559 --> 01:13:13,699 and now we know that it's actually true. 1377 01:13:13,699 --> 01:13:15,736 - A real prankster, 1378 01:13:15,736 --> 01:13:20,050 and a real, like a permanent juvenile delinquent. 1379 01:13:20,050 --> 01:13:21,466 If he was alive today, 1380 01:13:21,466 --> 01:13:24,365 he'd be like a 70-year-old juvenile delinquent. 1381 01:13:24,365 --> 01:13:26,160 - And I think had he lived today, 1382 01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:29,888 he'd be one of those forefathers of punk, 1383 01:13:29,888 --> 01:13:33,374 and maybe have more respect than he did. 1384 01:13:34,927 --> 01:13:35,963 - And Stiv was very unique, 1385 01:13:35,963 --> 01:13:36,791 he was, 1386 01:13:38,552 --> 01:13:41,417 I'm sure a lot of people who don't know the guy, 1387 01:13:41,417 --> 01:13:43,867 would think he's just whatever. 1388 01:13:43,867 --> 01:13:45,869 But he's a real sensitive guy, 1389 01:13:45,869 --> 01:13:49,079 and he was really pretty special. 1390 01:13:49,079 --> 01:13:50,840 - The nicest, sweetest guy, really. 1391 01:13:52,082 --> 01:13:54,671 As I say, lunatic nonetheless. 1392 01:13:56,224 --> 01:13:58,744 When I got to play with him and tour with him 1393 01:13:58,744 --> 01:14:01,644 and travel with him, that revealed itself, 1394 01:14:02,507 --> 01:14:03,404 on a daily basis. 1395 01:14:10,515 --> 01:14:12,033 - I believe in what I'm doing. 1396 01:14:15,140 --> 01:14:15,968 I always have. 1397 01:14:17,314 --> 01:14:19,696 And when there's no compromise, 1398 01:14:19,696 --> 01:14:21,664 there'll be no regrets. 1399 01:15:55,274 --> 01:15:58,554 ♪ Baby baby I need you so bad 1400 01:15:58,554 --> 01:16:02,350 ♪ I need something that I never had before ♪ 1401 01:16:02,350 --> 01:16:05,284 ♪ I've been lonely from the time I was small ♪ 1402 01:16:05,284 --> 01:16:10,289 ♪ Now it's time for me to walk through the wall ♪ 1403 01:16:12,119 --> 01:16:15,260 ♪ Help me find a way 1404 01:16:15,260 --> 01:16:18,504 ♪ Help me find a way 1405 01:16:18,504 --> 01:16:22,094 ♪ Help me find a way 1406 01:16:22,094 --> 01:16:24,856 ♪ To be with you to hold you 1407 01:16:24,856 --> 01:16:28,653 ♪ To love you 1408 01:16:28,653 --> 01:16:33,658 ♪ Become you to kiss you to love you ♪ 1409 01:16:35,556 --> 01:16:38,594 ♪ To love you to hold you 1410 01:16:38,594 --> 01:16:41,113 ♪ To love you 1411 01:16:49,846 --> 01:16:53,056 ♪ Baby baby I want you so much 1412 01:16:53,056 --> 01:16:55,645 ♪ You've got something that I couldn't touch ♪ 1413 01:16:55,645 --> 01:17:00,098 ♪ Before I was looking and I answered your call ♪ 1414 01:17:00,098 --> 01:17:05,034 ♪ Now it's time for me to walk it all ♪ 1415 01:17:07,070 --> 01:17:10,073 ♪ Help me find a way 1416 01:17:10,073 --> 01:17:13,283 ♪ Help me find a way 1417 01:17:13,283 --> 01:17:16,493 ♪ Help me find a way 1418 01:17:16,493 --> 01:17:19,635 ♪ To feel you to hold you 1419 01:17:19,635 --> 01:17:23,466 ♪ To love you 1420 01:17:23,466 --> 01:17:26,538 ♪ To touch you to kiss you 1421 01:17:26,538 --> 01:17:30,231 ♪ To love you 1422 01:17:30,231 --> 01:17:33,476 ♪ To love you to hold you 1423 01:17:33,476 --> 01:17:38,481 ♪ To love you 1424 01:17:39,827 --> 01:17:43,520 ♪ I can see a laser that's shining brightly ♪ 1425 01:17:45,315 --> 01:17:50,320 ♪ Can I even know what I need to be ♪ 1426 01:17:51,770 --> 01:17:56,775 ♪ I only knew that you're the chance that I've been given ♪ 1427 01:17:58,984 --> 01:18:03,920 ♪ Baby I'm yours and I won't stop thinking about you ♪ 1428 01:18:35,193 --> 01:18:38,161 ♪ Do you remember those days 1429 01:18:38,161 --> 01:18:41,268 ♪ When we were teenagers 1430 01:18:41,268 --> 01:18:46,273 ♪ And got high on toxic fluids and flavors ♪ 1431 01:18:47,688 --> 01:18:52,210 ♪ Life was exciting while listening to dirty rock'n'roll ♪ 1432 01:18:53,729 --> 01:18:57,698 ♪ Even when we were kids, it was all about losing control ♪ 1433 01:19:05,154 --> 01:19:10,159 ♪ Life takes you down 1434 01:19:11,056 --> 01:19:16,061 ♪ Life takes you down 1435 01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:21,860 ♪ When all we wanted to get high ♪ 1436 01:19:24,898 --> 01:19:29,903 ♪ Born with an 1437 01:19:32,043 --> 01:19:37,048 ♪ A creature of the night 1438 01:19:37,945 --> 01:19:42,363 ♪ Forever turn a revolution 1439 01:19:44,227 --> 01:19:49,232 ♪ He shivered of the fight 1440 01:19:50,406 --> 01:19:54,479 ♪ Stood up and lean into the studio ♪ 1441 01:19:56,274 --> 01:20:00,036 ♪ Then conquered London town 1442 01:20:02,487 --> 01:20:04,282 - New Orleans, 1443 01:20:04,282 --> 01:20:06,215 that's where I'm from.