WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 02:12.260 02:12.260 --> 02:14.340 604 Iberville: 02:14.340 --> 02:17.920 Located at the intersection of Chartres and Iberville Streets, 02:17.920 --> 02:24.460 a couple blocks away from the famed Canal Street in New Orleans, Louisiana. 02:24.460 --> 02:28.120 With records dating back to the mid-1800's, 02:28.120 --> 02:31.600 this three-story building has had a rich history. 02:31.600 --> 02:34.240 It once housed a cotton mill 02:34.240 --> 02:37.440 and has been the home to countless cocktail lounges. 02:37.440 --> 02:39.060 02:39.060 --> 02:42.460 Typically, a bar could be found on the first floor, 02:42.460 --> 02:45.200 while the third floor consisted of rental rooms 02:45.200 --> 02:50.860 that were more than likely used as flop houses for sailors and other visitors. 02:50.860 --> 02:54.720 But in 1970, the second floor was vacant 02:54.720 --> 02:57.980 and an unlikely fellow by the name of Phil Esteve 02:57.980 --> 03:04.060 would make a decision that would inadvertently impact the history of New Orleans. 03:04.060 --> 03:05.180 03:05.180 --> 03:07.700 Phil, after high school, 03:07.700 --> 03:11.320 decided to go into the seminary, 03:11.320 --> 03:14.340 and that didn't work out for him. 03:14.340 --> 03:16.320 After that he went into the Navy, 03:16.320 --> 03:19.020 and of course, that didn't work out for him, 03:19.020 --> 03:22.360 so he come back home to New Orleans. 03:22.360 --> 03:23.880 He asked a friend, 03:23.880 --> 03:28.040 "well, I'm torn between opening a gay bar or opening a gift shop", 03:28.040 --> 03:29.460 and his friend said, 03:29.460 --> 03:31.180 "well, if I only had a dollar, 03:31.180 --> 03:33.820 I would buy a beer before I would buy a knick-knack". 03:33.820 --> 03:35.100 03:35.100 --> 03:39.000 The Up Stairs Lounge opened on Halloween of 1970. 03:39.000 --> 03:43.840 It's a very much a party atmosphere. They just had fun. 03:43.840 --> 03:44.880 03:44.880 --> 03:49.280 The Up Stairs Lounge was kind of out of the way by French Quarter standards. 03:49.280 --> 03:51.260 It's out on the very edge of the Quarter. 03:51.260 --> 03:56.520 It's not near the brightly lit, tourist friendly part of Bourbon Street. 03:56.520 --> 04:03.240 It wasn't necessarily a rough part of the Quarter, 04:03.240 --> 04:06.760 but, at that time, 04:06.760 --> 04:10.260 Hustler's Row was right around the corner. 04:10.260 --> 04:15.660 But, I never regarded it as being dangerous or anything. 04:15.660 --> 04:18.320 The Up Stairs Lounge - 04:18.320 --> 04:23.060 You could go up a flight of stairs that turned to the left, 04:23.060 --> 04:27.840 and there was like a big, metal fire door there. 04:27.840 --> 04:28.980 04:28.980 --> 04:31.160 Initially, it was full... 04:31.160 --> 04:34.640 Well, it still is, full of drainage pipes from the water 04:34.640 --> 04:39.920 that was run up into the building long after the building was constructed. 04:39.920 --> 04:43.420 Phil and Buddy draped all that with colorful fabric 04:43.420 --> 04:46.040 so that the entrance would be inviting. 04:46.040 --> 04:50.340 The Up Stairs bar was divided into three sections, 04:50.340 --> 04:55.580 with like a big, archway. 04:55.580 --> 04:59.220 In the physical bar - 04:59.220 --> 05:01.540 the bar stools, were in the first section, 05:01.540 --> 05:05.000 and the second section had tables and chairs 05:05.000 --> 05:06.660 and a little dance floor, 05:06.660 --> 05:10.550 and in the third section, it was like a completely different world. 05:10.550 --> 05:15.960 It was a small theater, with a stage and little chairs set up. 05:15.960 --> 05:19.900 The walls were covered with red flocked wallpaper 05:19.900 --> 05:24.500 and the carpet was a reddish-orange color 05:24.500 --> 05:27.140 and the bar counter was a similar color. 05:27.140 --> 05:29.080 So it was very bright. 05:29.080 --> 05:34.760 There were also some beefcake posters that were very famous in the 1970s: 05:34.760 --> 05:38.140 You know, Burt Reynolds lying on his bearskin rug 05:38.140 --> 05:41.800 and Mark Spitz and that itty bitty swimsuit with seven gold medals. 05:41.800 --> 05:42.840 05:42.840 --> 05:45.900 The first time I went there and opened the door, I closed it. 05:45.900 --> 05:49.040 I was scared. [laughs] 05:49.040 --> 05:50.400 I couldn't go in it. 05:50.400 --> 05:52.460 Every time, when you open the door, 05:52.460 --> 05:54.320 everybody looks like that at ya... 05:54.320 --> 05:55.680 and then you close the door... 05:55.680 --> 05:58.040 So I got up enough courage and I went in 05:58.040 --> 06:00.780 and you know, had a beer and that, 06:00.780 --> 06:02.460 everything was fine. 06:02.460 --> 06:04.940 I felt really safe, and I would go often, 06:04.940 --> 06:06.920 especially Sunday to Beer Busts. 06:06.920 --> 06:09.100 It was the most fun part of all. 06:09.100 --> 06:13.460 It was more like a social club you might say, than a bar. 06:13.460 --> 06:17.340 It wasn't so much of a cruising or 06:17.340 --> 06:20.560 pickup or hustler bar or anything like that. 06:20.560 --> 06:23.440 I'm not gonna sit here and say that nothing... 06:23.440 --> 06:25.140 06:25.140 --> 06:29.780 ever happened along those lines on occasion, 06:29.780 --> 06:37.320 but mostly, it was just a gathering place of friends. 06:37.320 --> 06:42.380 I used to take my little, black, shaggy haired dog up there. 06:42.380 --> 06:44.620 His name was Jocko. 06:44.620 --> 06:47.440 He'd sit up on a bar stool 06:47.440 --> 06:51.020 and have a little bowl of milk and vodka. 06:51.020 --> 06:53.460 [Laughter] 06:53.460 --> 06:57.480 and wander around. 06:57.480 --> 06:59.940 But we just said he was a "bar hound". 06:59.940 --> 07:01.480 [Laughter] 07:01.480 --> 07:02.140 07:02.140 --> 07:06.720 I met my first lover, Reginald Adams, at the Up Stairs. 07:06.720 --> 07:09.640 He was the first black man that I ever knew, 07:09.640 --> 07:12.160 because people were very segregated back then. 07:12.160 --> 07:13.640 And there were only a few bars 07:13.640 --> 07:14.900 that didn't care - 07:14.900 --> 07:17.040 that would let blacks and whites in. 07:17.040 --> 07:19.080 The Up Stairs was one of them. 07:19.080 --> 07:22.300 I was sitting at the bar and he offered to buy me a drink. 07:22.300 --> 07:23.760 The bartender came over, 07:23.760 --> 07:27.220 it was Buddy Rasmussen, he was also the bar manager, 07:27.220 --> 07:28.460 he asked me, 07:28.470 --> 07:29.900 you know, 07:29.900 --> 07:32.160 if you want to meet this guy, he wants to send you a drink. 07:32.160 --> 07:34.160 I said "sure". 07:34.160 --> 07:36.580 It was love at first sight. 07:36.580 --> 07:39.860 And the more I got to know him, the more I loved him. 07:39.860 --> 07:43.720 It was much more difficult to be interracial in the South 07:43.720 --> 07:46.160 in the 1970s. 07:46.160 --> 07:51.180 Because we actually had that discussion. 07:51.180 --> 07:53.620 We sat down when we decided to move in together, 07:53.620 --> 07:56.980 because he said, "well, you know you're gonna lose some of your friends". 07:56.980 --> 07:59.280 But we decided we wanted to be together, 07:59.280 --> 08:01.560 so we were gonna be together. 08:01.560 --> 08:04.520 And it didn't really matter who accepted us or who didn't. 08:04.520 --> 08:07.240 I figured if they were friends of mine and they were true friends, 08:07.240 --> 08:10.920 they would accept him and he said the same thing. 08:10.920 --> 08:15.780 We felt at home at the Up Stairs Lounge. 08:15.780 --> 08:19.020 Phil Esteve, the owner and Buddy Rasmussen, 08:19.020 --> 08:22.800 his head bartender and general manager - 08:22.800 --> 08:28.680 They went out of their way to create events that would bring people in. 08:28.680 --> 08:32.260 There was always something fun going on there. 08:32.260 --> 08:35.780 There was a stage where 08:35.780 --> 08:38.020 dramatic performances would take place. 08:38.020 --> 08:41.300 They were written as melodramas, 08:41.300 --> 08:46.060 but most of the casting was cross-gender. 08:46.060 --> 08:48.120 Men were playing the women's roles. 08:48.120 --> 08:50.840 Sometimes women would play men's roles. 08:50.840 --> 08:53.420 And instead of being called "melodramas", 08:53.420 --> 08:55.040 they were nicknamed "Nellydramas". 08:55.040 --> 08:57.080 08:57.080 --> 09:01.380 And that was in a room where instead of regular theater seating, 09:01.380 --> 09:06.560 people would sit around these these big spools that were used to hold cable. 09:06.560 --> 09:09.400 Buddy would put bowls of popcorn on the table 09:09.400 --> 09:11.020 and when the villain appeared on stage, 09:11.020 --> 09:14.660 people would "boo" and throw popcorn at the villain. 09:14.660 --> 09:15.560 09:15.560 --> 09:17.900 I was usually cast as "Little Nellie". 09:17.900 --> 09:19.260 [Laughter] Hmm... hated that. 09:19.260 --> 09:21.120 I wanted to be the villain at one time 09:21.120 --> 09:24.560 and Bettye said, "you are not villain character". [Laughter] 09:24.560 --> 09:28.380 You know, I said "okay, so I'm 'Little Nellie' character?" 09:28.380 --> 09:29.340 [Laughter] 09:29.340 --> 09:32.120 You know so, 09:32.120 --> 09:34.680 yeah, I was always "Little Nell". 09:34.680 --> 09:40.140 One time, I played the part as a stand-in for the lead character in one of them. 09:40.140 --> 09:44.600 I played the part of the "Infamous Memphis Queen", 09:44.600 --> 09:47.220 which was really fun. 09:47.220 --> 09:49.900 That was a real fun role, you know? 09:49.900 --> 09:51.560 But we had a good time. 09:51.560 --> 09:53.860 There was a baby grand piano. 09:53.860 --> 09:57.320 A young man named David Stuart Gary would play there regularly. 09:57.320 --> 09:59.420 He was nicknamed "Piano Dave". 09:59.420 --> 10:03.760 And when he was playing, there would be sing-alongs. 10:03.760 --> 10:05.280 At the end of the beer bust, 10:05.280 --> 10:09.360 everybody would hold hands and get in a circle 10:09.360 --> 10:12.720 and sing, "United We Stand, Divided We Fall". 10:12.720 --> 10:17.960 It was just a song that everybody was singing by the "Brotherhood of Man". 10:17.960 --> 10:20.040 You know, and they played the piano, 10:20.040 --> 10:24.560 and we'd be singing to it and just kind of holding arms together, 10:24.560 --> 10:26.240 and we'd kind of sway. 10:26.240 --> 10:30.560 It was, I guess, it was kind of spiritual in a way. 10:30.560 --> 10:33.860 In a sense that we were united together 10:33.860 --> 10:36.820 in a brother/sisterhood bond. 10:36.820 --> 10:41.540 [Song: "United We Stand"] 10:41.540 --> 10:53.340 10:53.340 --> 10:58.360 The third room would soon serve yet another purpose. 10:58.360 --> 11:03.500 The Metropolitan Community Church was founded by the Reverend Troy Perry 11:03.500 --> 11:07.600 in Los Angeles, California in 1968. 11:07.600 --> 11:10.700 The MCC would be a Christian Church 11:10.700 --> 11:14.840 serving the often neglected religious, spiritual and social needs 11:14.840 --> 11:17.380 of the gay community. 11:17.380 --> 11:19.940 His vision spread quickly. 11:19.940 --> 11:21.840 In the early 1970s, 11:21.840 --> 11:24.820 congregations were forming around the country, 11:24.820 --> 11:27.960 including in New Orleans. 11:27.960 --> 11:35.860 The Elysian Fields parish of MCC New Orleans held its first meeting in April of 1971 11:35.860 --> 11:38.560 under the guidance of Reverend David Solomon, 11:38.560 --> 11:41.580 co-coordinator of the New Orleans chapter 11:41.580 --> 11:44.720 of the Gay Liberation Front. 11:44.720 --> 11:48.220 After struggling to find a consistent location to worship, 11:48.220 --> 11:50.860 Reverend Solomon announced that the Lord 11:50.860 --> 11:54.900 directed him to a theater in the back of the bar in the French Quarter, 11:54.900 --> 12:01.040 and the owners had made it available on Sunday evenings, free of charge. 12:01.040 --> 12:09.860 The first worship service was held in the third room at the Up Stairs Lounge on May 19, 1971. 12:09.860 --> 12:14.040 Services continued under the leadership of Deacon Bill Larson 12:14.040 --> 12:17.120 with the help of Associate Pastor Mitch Mitchell. 12:17.120 --> 12:18.520 12:18.520 --> 12:21.980 Bill was older than me. 12:21.980 --> 12:24.340 I remember that. [Laughter] 12:24.340 --> 12:28.980 I remember too, that Bill was a Lay Methodist Minister 12:28.980 --> 12:32.260 when he came in to MCC 12:32.260 --> 12:33.660 and in those days, 12:33.660 --> 12:36.400 honey, if you told me you had a called to minister, 12:36.400 --> 12:38.180 I laid hands on you right there. 12:38.180 --> 12:42.740 There was no committee like there is today in the Metropolitan Community Church. 12:42.740 --> 12:47.140 I wanted so bad to have people who had a burden like I did to help out. 12:47.140 --> 12:47.920 12:47.920 --> 12:51.820 He was just a very concerning person. 12:51.820 --> 12:53.520 He was very devoted. 12:53.520 --> 12:55.380 He was devoted to the church. 12:55.380 --> 12:58.880 He was devoted to the members of the church. 12:58.880 --> 13:00.600 He was a very loving person. 13:00.600 --> 13:01.620 13:01.620 --> 13:04.320 Mitch and his partner were like two kids, 13:04.320 --> 13:06.320 they way I remember them. [Laughter] 13:06.320 --> 13:08.720 They could be very... 13:08.720 --> 13:10.220 what word do I want to use? 13:10.220 --> 13:12.520 They were so funny sometimes, 13:12.520 --> 13:16.940 but bordering on not knowing when not to be kids, 13:16.940 --> 13:18.320 if that that makes any sense. 13:18.320 --> 13:19.660 Mitch was 13:19.670 --> 13:21.170 just 13:21.170 --> 13:23.460 very much in love with Horace, 13:23.460 --> 13:25.620 and Horace vice-versa. 13:25.620 --> 13:28.160 Mitch thought this is an act! 13:28.160 --> 13:31.100 "I can't believe he loves me like he does." 13:31.100 --> 13:32.460 Well, he really did! 13:32.460 --> 13:33.880 He loved him! 13:33.880 --> 13:37.300 Mitch wanted to be involved with the MCC. 13:37.300 --> 13:40.240 He became an Associate Pastor. 13:40.240 --> 13:42.360 To me, MCC, 13:42.360 --> 13:48.600 Metropolitan Community Church, was my surrogate family. 13:48.600 --> 13:51.160 I didn't feel comfortable with my own family 13:51.160 --> 13:53.440 because I was gay. 13:53.440 --> 13:56.200 I didn't feel comfortable in my jobs. 13:56.200 --> 14:00.180 So the social circle was MCC. 14:00.180 --> 14:02.160 14:02.160 --> 14:07.340 Now, being there at the Up Stairs Lounge in the third room, 14:07.340 --> 14:11.460 some people thought it would be good to 14:11.460 --> 14:13.120 bring more congregants. 14:13.120 --> 14:16.080 It was bigger and spacious and 14:16.080 --> 14:19.300 the social hour that followed afterward 14:19.300 --> 14:22.500 and then the Beer Bust that followed after that 14:22.500 --> 14:26.100 was conducive to meeting other people 14:26.100 --> 14:29.280 and feeling, you know, very safe in that environment. 14:29.280 --> 14:34.560 But the outlook from the gay community outside the bar 14:34.560 --> 14:36.800 who didn't go there was, 14:36.800 --> 14:40.740 "a gay church in a gay bar?" 14:40.740 --> 14:44.300 It didn't lend credibility to the word "church". 14:44.300 --> 14:47.240 So a congregation, 14:47.240 --> 14:49.860 other people in the group, 14:49.860 --> 14:53.280 wanted the congregation to move to another building 14:53.280 --> 14:56.260 to have the church service. 14:56.260 --> 14:59.020 Bill Larson and 14:59.020 --> 15:03.760 Reverend Bill Richardson of St. George's Episcopal Church, 15:03.760 --> 15:05.620 especially Reverend Bill Richardson, 15:05.620 --> 15:08.320 thought it would be more appropriate 15:08.320 --> 15:13.840 to lend the use of the chapel to MCC. 15:13.840 --> 15:21.740 It was a wonderful thing to be gifted with that use. 15:21.740 --> 15:26.160 It helped with the congregation 15:26.160 --> 15:29.500 putting no money toward the rent 15:29.500 --> 15:35.020 to save money for a rent to own or lease to own building. 15:35.020 --> 15:35.640 15:35.640 --> 15:42.400 The congregation quickly accrued enough money in its treasury to lease a place of their own. 15:42.400 --> 15:44.720 Located in the Garden District, 15:44.720 --> 15:48.460 the double Creole Cottage housed the sanctuary on one side 15:48.460 --> 15:52.140 and Deacon Bill Larson's rectory on the other. 15:52.140 --> 15:56.200 And while worship services were no longer held at the Up Stairs, 15:56.200 --> 16:02.780 many congregates continued the tradition of attending the Sunday Beer Busts after church. 16:02.780 --> 16:09.220 This proved no different on Sunday, June 24, 1973. 16:09.220 --> 16:10.980 16:10.980 --> 16:13.380 It was the usual Beer Bust. 16:13.380 --> 16:17.440 Everybody's laughin' and cuttin' up and talkin'. 16:17.440 --> 16:19.740 You know, and dancin' and stuff like that. 16:19.740 --> 16:22.000 And then they had a piano player in there. 16:22.000 --> 16:24.280 There was a buzzer at the bottom of the stairs. 16:24.280 --> 16:27.260 Cab drivers or delivery drivers would buzz 16:27.260 --> 16:31.740 when they needed to alert people upstairs that they were there. 16:31.740 --> 16:33.660 The buzzer kept going off. 16:33.660 --> 16:36.620 Whether it was somebody down on the street trying to warn them 16:36.620 --> 16:38.320 or if it was a short in the wire, 16:38.320 --> 16:39.820 No one really knows what happened, 16:39.820 --> 16:41.560 but the buzzer kept going off. 16:41.560 --> 16:44.880 Buddy Rasmussen turned to Luther Boggs who was sitting closest to the door and said 16:44.880 --> 16:48.260 "Luther, would you go see who in the hell is ringing that buzzer!" 16:48.260 --> 16:49.640 So Luther opened the door. 16:49.640 --> 16:51.960 The fire burst into the bar! 16:51.960 --> 16:54.020 All of a sudden, you heard people screamin'. 16:54.020 --> 16:56.020 From laughter to screamin'. 16:56.020 --> 16:58.920 I could see the glow of the flames 16:58.920 --> 17:00.300 and all of a sudden, 17:00.300 --> 17:01.520 the flames, 17:01.520 --> 17:04.860 that curtain that was hanging at the top, 17:04.860 --> 17:07.760 it just kind of like shot straight across that, 17:07.760 --> 17:09.480 and oddly enough, 17:09.480 --> 17:13.600 it was the indoor-outdoor carpeting and 17:13.600 --> 17:16.960 the fire actually lifted that carpeting up. 17:16.960 --> 17:18.960 It was like floating up with the, 17:18.960 --> 17:22.400 I think the flames were just going under it. 17:22.400 --> 17:27.780 Flames were just swirling all around me in the air, 17:27.780 --> 17:31.960 and the fire just ripped across the Up Stairs Lounge. 17:31.960 --> 17:34.100 It was pandemonium instantly, 17:34.100 --> 17:35.980 when the fire came into the bar. 17:35.980 --> 17:38.940 It was the end of a Beer Bust and many had had lots to drink 17:38.940 --> 17:40.480 and then the windows were right there. 17:40.480 --> 17:42.420 They thought that would be a quick exit, 17:42.420 --> 17:44.040 so they just ran to the windows. 17:44.040 --> 17:46.040 They had a big window here, 17:46.040 --> 17:50.660 and I think, it was three windows. Wasn't it three? 17:50.660 --> 17:52.560 Okay, one there, one there, one there. 17:52.560 --> 17:57.060 And you saw people run that way and I went to the middle one and 17:57.060 --> 17:59.780 miraculously got through the bars, 17:59.780 --> 18:01.060 and then hit the ground. 18:01.060 --> 18:03.040 People, you know, 18:03.040 --> 18:08.600 blocked my fall, and I woke up in a hospital. 18:08.600 --> 18:11.920 Jean Gosnell was sitting near the front of the bar near Luther Boggs, 18:11.920 --> 18:16.100 when Luther went to open the door and the fire came in, and 18:16.100 --> 18:20.240 obviously everyone near the fire escape wanted to get out the fire escape quickly. 18:20.240 --> 18:21.920 It was taking too long to open it, 18:21.920 --> 18:25.520 so Luther ended up pushing Jean through the glass - 18:25.520 --> 18:27.700 Broke a couple of her teeth. 18:27.700 --> 18:30.880 She spit them out. They went out onto the fire escape. 18:30.880 --> 18:33.260 Luther said, "I'm burning Jean! Help me! Help me!" 18:33.260 --> 18:36.100 And she just tried to beat out some of the flames. 18:36.100 --> 18:38.340 She ended up being severely burned as well. 18:38.340 --> 18:40.280 Luther jumped down into the street, 18:40.280 --> 18:42.420 Jean ran up the fire escape to the third floor 18:42.420 --> 18:45.680 where she waited 'til the fire department rescued her. 18:45.680 --> 18:48.840 Someone ran into the bathroom, which was right by the fire escape 18:48.840 --> 18:51.500 and warned his friend to come out of the bar and 18:51.500 --> 18:54.280 that guy came out of the bathroom, saw the fire right there, 18:54.280 --> 18:55.940 jumped through the fire escape into the street. 18:55.940 --> 18:58.700 He looked up to see his friend. 18:58.700 --> 19:00.060 His friend never made it out. 19:00.060 --> 19:01.760 Two bodies were found in the bathroom. 19:01.760 --> 19:04.140 Another body was found right in front of the fire escape. 19:04.140 --> 19:07.100 So that fire escape was cut off within seconds. 19:07.100 --> 19:08.640 19:08.640 --> 19:12.000 Buddy Rasmussen had been in the Fire Division in the Air Force 19:12.000 --> 19:13.600 and as soon as he saw the fire, 19:13.600 --> 19:14.900 he went down the length of the bar, 19:14.900 --> 19:17.880 telling everyone, "Follow me, follow me, follow me, follow me". 19:17.880 --> 19:24.100 He ended up leading about 25 people out through the second room to the fire door in the third room. 19:24.100 --> 19:28.260 [Ricky Everett] Buddy is the one who grabbed me and took us out that door. 19:28.260 --> 19:30.880 He saved my life. 19:30.880 --> 19:34.220 I had a friend visiting me from Atlanta 19:34.220 --> 19:36.460 and when we were going out, 19:36.460 --> 19:39.360 he was coming out behind me, 19:39.360 --> 19:41.020 and I turned to look back behind me, 19:41.020 --> 19:42.720 and he wasn't there. 19:42.720 --> 19:44.660 He had somehow gotten in front of me 19:44.660 --> 19:47.080 and I didn't realize it. 19:47.080 --> 19:48.740 And so I turned back, 19:48.740 --> 19:52.600 and at the same time, Mitch Mitchell was going back in the door, 19:52.600 --> 19:55.860 going looking for his lover, Horace. 19:55.860 --> 19:58.440 Horace Broussard. 19:58.440 --> 20:03.940 So Mitch and I went back in at the same time 20:03.940 --> 20:06.920 and he just like disappeared off into the flames. 20:06.920 --> 20:08.820 20:08.820 --> 20:12.100 I would die for my partner. 20:12.100 --> 20:16.120 And when they told me about how Mitch got out, 20:16.120 --> 20:19.340 I know how he felt. 20:19.340 --> 20:22.520 I would have probably done the same thing - 20:22.520 --> 20:26.300 tried to get back in and get my partner out of that inferno. 20:26.300 --> 20:27.680 [Sobbing] 20:27.680 --> 20:31.120 And he rushed back into the building. 20:31.120 --> 20:33.260 20:33.260 --> 20:38.460 And the FBI found their bones together, 20:38.460 --> 20:41.460 laying on top of each other. 20:41.460 --> 20:45.960 [choking back tears] 20:45.960 --> 20:50.840 The only thing that saved me out of it was, 20:50.840 --> 20:52.300 20:52.300 --> 20:53.140 It was, 20:53.140 --> 20:53.980 it was a miracle. 20:53.980 --> 20:56.040 God did a miracle there. 20:56.040 --> 21:00.100 It was like a blanket covered me from the head to toe 21:00.100 --> 21:02.800 and it wasn't like an imaginary thing. 21:02.800 --> 21:05.560 I could feel it physically on my body. 21:05.560 --> 21:08.360 And at the same time, 21:08.360 --> 21:10.560 I knew it was God 21:10.560 --> 21:12.060 and so I turned 21:12.060 --> 21:14.960 and I couldn't see the door, where it was, 21:14.960 --> 21:16.020 that I came into, 21:16.020 --> 21:17.840 because of all the flames. 21:17.840 --> 21:22.360 But I knew the direction, so I just went on out. 21:22.360 --> 21:24.860 I got out on the rooftop and 21:24.860 --> 21:28.960 there wasn't anybody there, except one man, 21:28.960 --> 21:31.500 and he told me very gently, 21:31.500 --> 21:34.300 to step down through the window there - 21:34.300 --> 21:38.600 that it was an apartment and just follow the stairs down to the street. 21:38.600 --> 21:41.900 And I walked at Bourbon Street to Iberville and took a left 21:41.900 --> 21:43.140 and as I took a left, 21:43.140 --> 21:46.580 I could see all the commotion 21:46.580 --> 21:47.700 going up and down the street. 21:47.700 --> 21:50.040 There were fire engines still coming and 21:50.040 --> 21:53.360 there was a crowd assembling on the corner. 21:53.360 --> 21:55.580 As I got up to the crowd on the corner, 21:55.580 --> 21:58.480 there was a policeman there saying, "you can't go any further than that". 21:58.480 --> 21:59.780 I said, "I've got to get back in there." 21:59.780 --> 22:02.840 I said "my lover is waiting for me. He's upstairs in the bar." 22:02.840 --> 22:04.560 He said, "that's the place that's on fire"! 22:04.560 --> 22:06.100 It was, 22:06.100 --> 22:08.100 a shock and 22:08.100 --> 22:10.560 22:10.560 --> 22:12.580 in my mind, it was like, 22:12.580 --> 22:14.400 "What's going on? What's going on?" 22:14.400 --> 22:15.740 I was questioning myself. 22:15.740 --> 22:17.900 Was I really seeing what I was seeing? 22:17.900 --> 22:20.660 Because it was hard for me to believe that. 22:20.660 --> 22:23.220 I wasn't gone that long. 22:23.220 --> 22:26.980 We were gonna take Adam and Buddy to dinner 22:26.980 --> 22:30.780 and then Reggie said, "how much cash do you have on you?" 22:30.780 --> 22:31.660 and I said well, I don't have much cash 22:31.660 --> 22:34.620 but I can run home and get the checkbook. 22:34.620 --> 22:37.780 And he said, "I'll go get it." 22:37.780 --> 22:39.940 I said, "no, you just ordered a fresh drink. I'm done. 22:39.940 --> 22:41.780 I'll get a drink when I get back." 22:41.780 --> 22:44.760 So I ran out the door to go get the checkbook. 22:44.760 --> 22:47.080 It couldn't have taken more than 10 minutes 22:47.080 --> 22:50.820 and here the place was on fire. 22:50.820 --> 22:53.160 A friend of mine came running up to me 22:53.160 --> 22:56.360 and told me that a lot of people got out over the... 22:56.360 --> 22:58.680 They went.. there was a theater in the back. 22:58.680 --> 23:01.080 They went through the theater in the back and over the roof 23:01.080 --> 23:05.140 and they got out over on the 23:05.140 --> 23:07.360 Chartres Street side. 23:07.360 --> 23:09.540 So I thought, well maybe Reggie was over there. 23:09.540 --> 23:11.540 So I tried to walk around to Canal Street 23:11.540 --> 23:12.680 and come around that way, 23:12.680 --> 23:17.200 but they had most of Chartres blocked off with fire engines, because the bar being on the corner, 23:17.200 --> 23:22.100 they had fire engines on both streets that met on the corner there. 23:22.100 --> 23:25.640 I just kept looking through the crowd hoping to see Reggie and Adam. 23:25.640 --> 23:27.260 23:27.260 --> 23:30.700 On the street, after the fire, was like, 23:30.700 --> 23:32.320 just chaos! 23:32.320 --> 23:35.060 Crowds of people looking and watching. 23:35.060 --> 23:40.020 There were medical people there treating wound victims, 23:40.020 --> 23:42.440 people crying, 23:42.440 --> 23:45.840 and you know, it was a bad scene. 23:45.840 --> 23:48.840 There was one fella, his name was Luther. 23:48.840 --> 23:50.420 They had brought him out on a stretcher 23:50.420 --> 23:54.620 and I photographed him and he was in such pain. 23:54.620 --> 23:56.400 He was just screaming. 23:56.400 --> 23:58.760 He was lying on his back on the stretcher. 23:58.760 --> 24:02.560 His arms were up, his clothes were burnt off of him, 24:02.560 --> 24:04.520 all of his hair was burnt, 24:04.520 --> 24:07.140 and the smell of a burning building, 24:07.140 --> 24:09.260 the smell of burning flesh, 24:09.260 --> 24:11.300 just... 24:11.300 --> 24:12.520 uh.. 24:12.520 --> 24:15.020 It was an awful smell. 24:15.020 --> 24:21.100 Bill Larson tried to escape by crawling out of a window, 24:21.100 --> 24:22.920 but was ultimately trapped 24:22.920 --> 24:25.780 by the window framing and by the bars that were there 24:25.780 --> 24:28.520 to prevent people from falling out of the windows. 24:28.520 --> 24:32.860 I saw the Reverend's body 24:32.860 --> 24:37.240 hanging halfway out the window, 24:37.240 --> 24:40.660 burned. 24:40.660 --> 24:45.320 I was just so totally horrified! 24:45.320 --> 24:46.680 24:46.680 --> 24:48.320 I looked at the other window, 24:48.320 --> 24:49.980 and I couldn't tell what that was. 24:49.980 --> 24:52.180 It was the person's rear 24:52.180 --> 24:54.560 trying to back through the window, 24:54.560 --> 25:00.560 and he had brown boots with a brass buckle on the boot 25:00.560 --> 25:04.020 and he was like in a fetus position 25:04.020 --> 25:08.220 trying to get out of the window and couldn't get through. 25:08.220 --> 25:12.540 And that was the window that was next to the one where the Reverend was 25:12.540 --> 25:16.740 and it also had a stack of bodies of people 25:16.740 --> 25:17.860 that were trying to get out 25:17.860 --> 25:22.180 and apparently, they just pressed up against the wall and the window 25:22.180 --> 25:23.560 and just, you know, they couldn't get out. 25:23.560 --> 25:24.960 They just burned there. 25:24.960 --> 25:29.260 When Buddy Rasmussen led people out the back way down into the street, 25:29.260 --> 25:33.460 he came around to the front of the bar where people were still struggling to get out the windows. 25:33.460 --> 25:36.860 He looked up, and he saw his lover, Adam, still sitting on the stool. 25:36.860 --> 25:38.340 He had not moved off his stool. 25:38.340 --> 25:41.200 He was sitting there waving his arms amidst the flames, 25:41.200 --> 25:42.500 screaming. 25:42.500 --> 25:44.140 And the last that Buddy saw of Adam 25:44.140 --> 25:46.620 was when a fire hose stream of water 25:46.620 --> 25:49.440 knocked Adam off his stool. 25:49.440 --> 25:54.580 25:54.580 --> 25:58.620 I started volunteering for the Red Cross on this Fire Watch Program 25:58.620 --> 26:00.300 going to fire scenes. 26:00.300 --> 26:02.980 We immediately swung into action. 26:02.980 --> 26:05.620 They had fellow Red Cross workers there, 26:05.620 --> 26:07.400 because the canteen truck was there, 26:07.400 --> 26:10.540 and we started tending to the injured 26:10.540 --> 26:12.540 and getting them off to hospitals. 26:12.540 --> 26:14.720 We had first-aid training. 26:14.720 --> 26:20.020 Of course, back then, first-aid training wasn't to the level of first responders, 26:20.020 --> 26:21.400 paramedic training of today. 26:21.400 --> 26:24.380 But, you know, we did what we can and that's another thing: 26:24.380 --> 26:28.580 With all of these things, is that you just switch into action. 26:28.580 --> 26:32.160 There's 29 fatalities at the Up Stairs Lounge, 26:32.160 --> 26:33.780 up there on the second floor 26:33.780 --> 26:37.800 and a good many of them were all piled against that front, 26:37.800 --> 26:40.300 you know, wall. 26:40.300 --> 26:43.920 And the firemen were having a lot of trouble getting those apart, 26:43.920 --> 26:45.140 putting them in body bags. 26:45.140 --> 26:46.940 They would put them in a snorkel fire truck 26:46.940 --> 26:49.910 that was right by the fire escape on Iberville Street 26:49.910 --> 26:51.180 and they would bring them down. 26:51.180 --> 26:55.420 So we would assist in taking the body bags off of there, 26:55.420 --> 26:58.120 and putting them into the coroner's unit. 26:58.120 --> 27:05.280 So we weren't exactly involved in recovering the remains, 27:05.280 --> 27:09.020 but we were in a way, because we were the part downstairs and all. 27:09.020 --> 27:10.720 We were on a street part. 27:10.720 --> 27:14.720 I was dispatched from the scene to Charity Hospital 27:14.720 --> 27:18.320 and I just walked in and stood in the emergency room, 27:18.320 --> 27:22.660 kind of up against the wall, right inside the doors that swung in. 27:22.660 --> 27:23.680 Lots of noise. 27:23.680 --> 27:24.960 Lots of moaning 27:24.960 --> 27:26.960 and you know, 27:26.960 --> 27:30.000 men howling in pain. 27:30.000 --> 27:34.160 The nurses and the interns and residents and doctors 27:34.160 --> 27:36.360 really were working together, 27:36.360 --> 27:37.820 hustling, 27:37.820 --> 27:38.980 yelling at each other, 27:38.980 --> 27:40.640 yelling to each other, you know. 27:40.640 --> 27:43.260 But they were racing against the clock 27:43.260 --> 27:45.060 to try to save as many as they could. 27:45.060 --> 27:47.800 Drawing blood, applying gauze and 27:47.800 --> 27:48.940 medication and you know, 27:48.940 --> 27:51.480 cutting people's clothing off to get to the wounds. 27:51.480 --> 27:56.080 And you know, they were triaging, doing their jobs. 27:56.080 --> 27:59.380 Again, very professional. Very caring. 27:59.380 --> 28:01.720 Doing what doctors and nurses were trained to do. 28:01.720 --> 28:02.240 28:02.240 --> 28:04.800 I ran up and down the hallway in Charity Hospital 28:04.800 --> 28:06.880 and asked 28:06.880 --> 28:09.060 Rusty Quinton and several other people, 28:09.060 --> 28:12.000 they're all deceased now, 28:12.000 --> 28:13.740 if they had seen Reggie. 28:13.740 --> 28:17.680 And none of them recalled seeing him. 28:17.680 --> 28:20.420 And they were also firemen and people there 28:20.420 --> 28:21.860 and one of the firemen explained to me 28:21.860 --> 28:23.240 that people sitting at the piano 28:23.240 --> 28:26.600 didn't make it out. 28:26.600 --> 28:30.040 At that time, he said there was no way of 28:30.040 --> 28:34.080 telling me if they were gonna be able to identify him 28:34.080 --> 28:36.980 because most of them were burned beyond recognition 28:36.980 --> 28:39.240 that we're sitting in that area. 28:39.240 --> 28:40.240 28:40.240 --> 28:46.060 News of the New Orleans fire quickly reached Reverend Troy Perry in Los Angeles. 28:46.060 --> 28:50.600 He learned that countless members of the Metropolitan Community Church 28:50.600 --> 28:52.600 were seriously injured or killed, 28:52.600 --> 28:55.700 including two clergy. 28:55.700 --> 28:56.920 28:56.920 --> 28:58.420 On the surface, 28:58.420 --> 29:02.800 this grim scene looked all too familiar to Reverend Perry 29:02.800 --> 29:06.940 and the Metropolitan Community Church. 29:06.940 --> 29:09.200 In January of the same year, 29:09.200 --> 29:13.240 an arsonist torched the MCC Mother Church in Los Angeles, 29:13.240 --> 29:16.020 nearing total destruction. 29:16.020 --> 29:17.900 Three months later, 29:17.900 --> 29:22.980 the MCC meeting place in Nashville, Tennessee was set on fire. 29:22.980 --> 29:25.980 And while no one was injured during these attacks, 29:25.980 --> 29:28.940 no one was arrested either. 29:28.940 --> 29:32.340 The New Orleans fire was the third in six months 29:32.340 --> 29:34.740 and it would be the deadliest single event 29:34.740 --> 29:40.040 to affect the Metropolitan Community Church. 29:40.040 --> 29:43.820 Troy immediately assembled a diverse and experienced team 29:43.820 --> 29:45.560 to travel to New Orleans 29:45.560 --> 29:47.160 to assist with recovery 29:47.160 --> 29:50.480 and help mobilize the community. 29:50.480 --> 29:55.720 The first to join Perry were MCC Reverends John Gill from Atlanta 29:55.720 --> 29:59.900 and Paul Breton from Washington, D.C.. 29:59.900 --> 30:04.800 Morty Manford, president of the Gay Activist Alliance in New York and 30:04.800 --> 30:10.800 Morris Kight, the Director of the Los Angeles Gay and Lesbian Community Services Center, 30:10.800 --> 30:13.920 soon joined the delegation. 30:13.920 --> 30:17.960 Both men had a great deal of experience dealing with the press, 30:17.960 --> 30:20.840 city officials and law enforcement. 30:20.840 --> 30:21.720 30:21.720 --> 30:23.640 When I arrived in New Orleans, 30:23.640 --> 30:26.920 Reverend John Gill picked me up at the airport 30:26.920 --> 30:30.140 and once we arrived at Bill's house, 30:30.140 --> 30:32.640 it was devastation. 30:32.640 --> 30:34.340 Devastation. 30:34.340 --> 30:38.020 Everybody crying. 30:38.020 --> 30:39.920 All of us 30:39.920 --> 30:41.940 30:41.940 --> 30:45.180 trying to come to terms. 30:45.180 --> 30:49.560 We preachers trying to reassure everybody, 30:49.560 --> 30:52.420 no, God does not hate us. 30:52.420 --> 30:55.440 This is not God who did this, 30:55.440 --> 30:59.680 any more than God killed Jews in the Holocaust. 30:59.680 --> 31:03.600 This is mass murder. 31:03.600 --> 31:06.080 This is not God angry at us. 31:06.080 --> 31:08.080 Some human being did this, 31:08.080 --> 31:10.900 not God. 31:10.900 --> 31:12.640 It was very rough. 31:12.640 --> 31:16.120 And we had announced when we arrived, 31:16.120 --> 31:19.120 that we were gonna hold a press conference 31:19.120 --> 31:23.340 at five o'clock in the afternoon on top of the Marriott. 31:23.340 --> 31:27.460 And of course, we walked over and looked down and there was ... 31:27.460 --> 31:30.760 31:30.760 --> 31:34.360 The next street over was where the bar was at - 31:34.360 --> 31:36.200 the Up Stairs Lounge. 31:36.200 --> 31:40.400 And we looked at the burned out front of it. 31:40.400 --> 31:45.360 But here we are, and the first thing that happened was 31:45.360 --> 31:47.860 we pick up the newspapers and 31:47.860 --> 31:51.680 my God, I went, I mean, through the roof! 31:51.680 --> 31:56.360 It quoted Major Morris of the police department: 31:56.360 --> 31:59.400 We may have a long time to find out who these people were. 31:59.400 --> 32:01.340 This is a bar frequented by, 32:01.340 --> 32:03.100 now what I remember was, 32:03.100 --> 32:07.400 "thieves, burglars and queers". 32:07.400 --> 32:08.440 So when he said it, 32:08.440 --> 32:09.940 I just hit the ceiling! 32:09.940 --> 32:11.200 I mean, 32:11.200 --> 32:12.360 I went nuts! 32:12.360 --> 32:13.760 And of course, the press shows up 32:13.760 --> 32:15.380 because this is the first time 32:15.380 --> 32:18.300 New Orleans has ever had homosexuals 32:18.300 --> 32:23.500 who were willing to talk in front of TV cameras in broad daylight, 32:23.500 --> 32:27.080 and I mean, we had talked before and they could tell it! 32:27.080 --> 32:30.780 So I said, "You know, this has got to stop!" 32:30.780 --> 32:33.740 I said, "this is not thieves, burglars and queers". 32:33.740 --> 32:38.100 "This is somebody's mother, father, daughter, son." 32:38.100 --> 32:41.260 I said, "these are human beings who have burned to death"! 32:41.260 --> 32:43.440 I said, "we've heard the jokes. 32:43.440 --> 32:46.220 We know what people are saying. 32:46.220 --> 32:47.880 'What are you gonna bury them in? 32:47.880 --> 32:49.920 Fruit jars?'" 32:49.920 --> 32:52.120 I mean, 32:52.120 --> 32:54.080 comments that were made! 32:54.080 --> 32:54.720 32:54.720 --> 32:56.640 The reaction to it 32:56.640 --> 32:59.400 32:59.400 --> 33:04.040 certainly spoke to the homophobia, 33:04.040 --> 33:05.880 not necessarily of the city, 33:05.880 --> 33:09.240 but society in general, as far as I'm concerned. 33:09.240 --> 33:12.620 I remember one photographer, older man, 33:12.620 --> 33:15.180 referred to it as "The Fruit Fry" 33:15.180 --> 33:17.200 And others talked about, you know, 33:17.200 --> 33:19.280 "roasting the fags" and that kind of stuff. 33:19.280 --> 33:21.600 All the kind of bigoted epithets. 33:21.600 --> 33:23.680 It wasn't constant, but I heard it. 33:23.680 --> 33:24.460 33:24.460 --> 33:27.640 Everybody was trying to find out who had made it out, 33:27.640 --> 33:30.760 who had perished. 33:30.760 --> 33:36.680 What do we do if we got word that our friends had perished? 33:36.680 --> 33:39.260 How do you contact the family? 33:39.260 --> 33:43.540 It was just so much uncertainty, as what to do. 33:43.540 --> 33:44.820 And again, 33:44.820 --> 33:48.060 having to go to work the next day and 33:48.060 --> 33:49.660 pretend as if it didn't bother you, 33:49.660 --> 33:51.660 or you hadn't heard about it, 33:51.660 --> 33:52.919 because, 33:52.920 --> 33:55.540 we couldn't come out at work. 33:55.540 --> 33:57.340 So you had to pretend: 33:57.340 --> 33:58.760 "Oh, there was a fire?" 33:58.760 --> 34:01.160 "Oh, did somebody die?" 34:01.160 --> 34:02.380 While inside, 34:02.380 --> 34:03.960 there was a lump in your throat 34:03.960 --> 34:06.120 that was enough to choke you. 34:06.120 --> 34:09.480 But that was just part of the play-acting 34:09.480 --> 34:13.160 that we all learned to do back in those days. 34:13.160 --> 34:15.520 Apparently, after the fire, 34:15.520 --> 34:18.580 both Mayor Landrieu and Governor Edwin Edwards 34:18.580 --> 34:20.700 thought that it was 34:20.700 --> 34:24.680 unnecessary or politically risky 34:24.680 --> 34:28.140 to acknowledge the suffering and the deaths 34:28.140 --> 34:29.680 of gay men. 34:29.680 --> 34:31.620 34:31.620 --> 34:33.660 And so they didn't want to do it. 34:33.660 --> 34:36.220 Both were called repeatedly 34:36.220 --> 34:38.340 and asked to issue statements 34:38.340 --> 34:40.300 and neither would. 34:40.300 --> 34:45.000 Within eight months prior to the Up Stairs fire, 34:45.000 --> 34:48.840 there were two very serious tragedies in New Orleans, 34:48.840 --> 34:51.260 both of them fire related. 34:51.260 --> 34:56.460 The Rault Center fire killed six people. 34:56.460 --> 35:00.280 And when that happened, the Mayor, Moon Landrieu, 35:00.280 --> 35:02.340 Governor Edwin Edwards 35:02.340 --> 35:06.020 and Archbishop Philip Hannan, 35:06.020 --> 35:11.080 made many public statements to the press 35:11.080 --> 35:13.680 about how this was a huge tragedy 35:13.680 --> 35:17.780 and a day of mourning was declared for the city. 35:17.780 --> 35:22.220 The death toll from the Howard Johnson's incident 35:22.220 --> 35:24.860 was 10. 35:24.860 --> 35:27.640 And again, Mayor Moon Landrieu, 35:27.640 --> 35:29.400 Governor Edwin Edwards, 35:29.400 --> 35:31.440 Archbishop Hannan, 35:31.440 --> 35:33.920 all made statements to the news - 35:33.920 --> 35:38.820 to newsprint sources, to television journalists, to radio journalists. 35:38.820 --> 35:41.980 Archbishop Hannan went to the hospital 35:41.980 --> 35:46.000 to comfort survivors and their families. 35:46.000 --> 35:50.120 He also preached the funeral mass for two of the dead. 35:50.120 --> 35:51.520 35:51.520 --> 35:54.680 Then a few months later, the Up Stairs Lounge fire happened 35:54.680 --> 35:56.640 and the ultimate death toll was 32. 35:56.640 --> 36:00.520 So it was double that of the Howard Johnson's incident 36:00.520 --> 36:04.540 and the Rault Center incident, combined. 36:04.540 --> 36:06.240 All three men: 36:06.240 --> 36:08.820 the Governor, the Mayor, the Archbishop - 36:08.820 --> 36:11.140 were completely silent. 36:11.140 --> 36:13.300 There was no day of mourning. 36:13.300 --> 36:15.500 There were no public statements. 36:15.500 --> 36:19.280 They seemed to have actively avoided the press. 36:19.280 --> 36:21.180 36:21.180 --> 36:24.580 It was as though those lives didn't count. 36:24.580 --> 36:25.720 36:25.720 --> 36:29.440 I lost my grandmother and two uncles in the fire. 36:29.440 --> 36:31.460 It was devastating to my family - 36:31.460 --> 36:34.800 losing three members of our family at one time. 36:34.800 --> 36:39.020 How can any family recover easily? 36:39.020 --> 36:41.680 The non-acknowledgment 36:41.680 --> 36:44.500 was a slap in the face of every family member, 36:44.500 --> 36:46.800 not just my family. 36:46.800 --> 36:47.420 36:47.420 --> 36:51.280 Mitch and his partner had their kids that weekend - 36:51.280 --> 36:54.820 two sons. 36:54.820 --> 36:56.940 And I was worried that they had taken them to the bar, 36:56.940 --> 36:59.240 because sometimes in New Orleans you could get away with that, 36:59.240 --> 37:01.560 I mean, as long as there was an adult with the kid. 37:01.560 --> 37:02.840 So we're all trying to figure out, 37:02.840 --> 37:04.660 "where are the kids"? 37:04.660 --> 37:05.220 37:05.220 --> 37:08.380 They took us the movies, and said that they were going to go get 37:08.380 --> 37:10.600 some drinks, I think, or something, 37:10.600 --> 37:12.520 and go to a meeting. 37:12.520 --> 37:13.880 Me and my brother 37:13.880 --> 37:15.880 went to see 'The World's Greatest Athlete'. 37:15.880 --> 37:18.560 I'll never forget that as long as I live. 37:18.560 --> 37:22.420 They kept on running it over and over and over, 37:22.420 --> 37:25.460 hoping somebody would show up and pick us up, 37:25.460 --> 37:27.800 but nobody did. 37:27.800 --> 37:28.940 I knew something was wrong. 37:28.940 --> 37:30.680 I felt something was wrong. 37:30.680 --> 37:33.900 'Cuz Daddy ain't never left us like that before. 37:33.900 --> 37:38.240 You know, he's always come back and got us, you know. 37:38.240 --> 37:41.920 And they kept on playing and playing and playing 37:41.920 --> 37:45.120 and they never showed back up. 37:45.120 --> 37:50.280 I didn't know for a whole week that my Dad had died. 37:50.280 --> 37:53.140 But a government official or you know, 37:53.140 --> 37:56.160 police chief or mayor or 37:56.160 --> 37:57.660 anybody... 37:57.660 --> 38:00.140 Nobody ever 38:00.140 --> 38:02.900 said "sorry for your loss" or 38:02.900 --> 38:05.200 "sorry this happened to y'all" or what. 38:05.200 --> 38:07.560 You know, nothing! 38:07.560 --> 38:09.580 And it does make me angry! 38:09.580 --> 38:11.640 It really does! 38:11.640 --> 38:14.560 Because all them lives was snuffed out 38:14.560 --> 38:15.760 like a candle! 38:15.760 --> 38:16.520 Just [pfft]! 38:16.520 --> 38:17.920 That was it 38:17.920 --> 38:19.570 and 38:19.570 --> 38:22.360 nobody cared about them. 38:22.360 --> 38:26.180 So the largest challenge was trying to deal 38:26.180 --> 38:28.240 with the living. 38:28.240 --> 38:31.820 I knew that the people here needed some help 38:31.820 --> 38:33.130 and 38:33.130 --> 38:35.900 the help can range anywhere from just 38:35.900 --> 38:38.840 having a good shoulder to cry on, 38:38.840 --> 38:40.960 to a good hug, 38:40.960 --> 38:42.760 to 38:42.760 --> 38:45.200 people trying to work with them 38:45.200 --> 38:47.220 and go through their pain and their sorrow 38:47.220 --> 38:48.820 as they went through it. 38:48.820 --> 38:51.520 That's very much 38:51.520 --> 38:54.160 something that's needed by human beings 38:54.160 --> 38:55.520 is the ability to cry - 38:55.520 --> 38:58.820 the ability to feel empathy from other people. 38:58.820 --> 39:03.320 Sometimes just knowing somebody, somewhere cares, 39:03.320 --> 39:06.900 makes all the difference in the world! 39:06.900 --> 39:11.360 I started meeting people and 39:11.360 --> 39:14.680 ministering with people, 39:14.680 --> 39:17.680 touching people, holding people, going to the funeral homes, 39:17.680 --> 39:19.420 going to the hospitals - 39:19.420 --> 39:22.780 The hospital visitations were the ones that were the hardest to do. 39:22.780 --> 39:24.440 One of the things that I - 39:24.440 --> 39:26.280 I've always believed is important, 39:26.280 --> 39:28.100 is when I go see someone in the hospital, 39:28.100 --> 39:30.380 is the importance of touch, 39:30.380 --> 39:32.640 just holding a person's hand, 39:32.640 --> 39:35.740 being very important for that person's healing. 39:35.740 --> 39:37.960 I was not able to 39:37.960 --> 39:39.420 anoint them for healing 39:39.420 --> 39:40.820 or to give them communion 39:40.820 --> 39:42.640 because of the fear of infection. 39:42.640 --> 39:44.300 Jean Gosnell, 39:44.300 --> 39:46.700 Jim Hambrick and Luther Boggs 39:46.700 --> 39:49.900 were the three people that I remember the most, 39:49.900 --> 39:53.240 that I visited in the hospital regularly. 39:53.240 --> 39:56.360 Luther's spirits were very high. 39:56.360 --> 40:01.120 Luther was determined that he was going to get out of the hospital 40:01.120 --> 40:05.480 and he was going to go back to work 40:05.480 --> 40:10.660 and he was not going to let a little thing like getting burnt keep him down. 40:10.660 --> 40:13.200 His words, not mine. 40:13.200 --> 40:15.520 But Luther was just an absolutely wonderful person, 40:15.520 --> 40:18.280 always asking about others, 40:18.280 --> 40:23.540 never once, do I remember him complaining about his own pain or injury, 40:23.540 --> 40:25.360 even though he was badly injured 40:25.360 --> 40:27.840 and he became one of the deceased. 40:27.840 --> 40:30.560 40:30.560 --> 40:33.380 But I had to go to the hospital 40:33.380 --> 40:36.740 every day for a while 40:36.740 --> 40:40.440 because I had like third-degree burns on my face and 40:40.440 --> 40:44.410 this arm, here, here and all down here. 40:44.410 --> 40:47.600 And they had to peel the skin off me. 40:47.600 --> 40:51.380 They kind of scraped it and then peel it. 40:51.380 --> 40:53.360 I was like, "Oh, God". 40:53.360 --> 40:55.060 And it made you so weak 40:55.060 --> 40:56.680 and you were so tired. 40:56.680 --> 40:57.760 You know, like I said, 40:57.760 --> 40:59.720 when I got home, I just slept. 40:59.720 --> 41:01.840 Slept, slept, slept. 41:01.840 --> 41:04.200 I had a hard time eating. 41:04.200 --> 41:06.300 I lost tons of weight. 41:06.300 --> 41:07.620 I lost about, 41:07.620 --> 41:10.680 maybe 40 pounds. 41:10.680 --> 41:15.680 I mean all I wanted to do was just be alone. 41:15.680 --> 41:17.820 I don't think I ever felt loneliness in my life 41:17.820 --> 41:19.300 until that point. 41:19.300 --> 41:21.960 For days, I kept expecting him to come through the door. 41:21.960 --> 41:23.100 I called my mother 41:23.100 --> 41:25.040 and she came over and she stayed with me. 41:25.040 --> 41:27.120 She said, "you would get up and fix breakfast, 41:27.120 --> 41:29.340 and lay his clothes out of work and everything, 41:29.340 --> 41:31.540 like he was going to get up and go to work." 41:31.540 --> 41:33.240 She said, "you were kind of in a daze". 41:33.240 --> 41:34.360 41:34.360 --> 41:37.520 It's, it's an emptiness. 41:37.520 --> 41:40.980 You feel totally helpless. 41:40.980 --> 41:45.640 It's just like a deep, black hole 41:45.640 --> 41:48.540 and you just keep waiting for answers 41:48.540 --> 41:50.320 and none come. 41:50.320 --> 41:51.140 41:51.140 --> 41:55.160 This is the first time we've had members murdered! 41:55.160 --> 41:56.940 This is the first for us! 41:56.940 --> 41:57.880 We started looking around. 41:57.880 --> 41:59.780 What are we going to do?! 41:59.780 --> 42:02.260 And then, God bless Father Richardson! 42:02.260 --> 42:04.340 He said, "we're gonna open the church up for prayer 42:04.340 --> 42:06.020 and just a small service. 42:06.020 --> 42:07.520 I know you're gonna do something later, 42:07.520 --> 42:09.180 but just something." 42:09.180 --> 42:10.660 And we got there and we had about 42:10.660 --> 42:14.120 maybe 35 people there. 42:14.120 --> 42:17.600 People couldn't quit crying. 42:17.600 --> 42:21.780 It was more like we went in and cried together, 42:21.780 --> 42:23.860 held each other, 42:23.860 --> 42:26.220 waddled through a little, 42:26.220 --> 42:28.900 a very short, little service. 42:28.900 --> 42:31.100 It was heartbreaking. 42:31.100 --> 42:32.520 42:32.520 --> 42:35.300 At the conclusion of the memorial service, 42:35.300 --> 42:38.400 Reverend Perry declared a National Day of Mourning 42:38.400 --> 42:41.100 to be observed around the country. 42:41.100 --> 42:43.240 He also announced the creation of 42:43.240 --> 42:46.380 the National New Orleans Memorial Fund. 42:46.380 --> 42:46.920 42:46.920 --> 42:52.100 We set up a memorial fund for the people who were affected by the fire 42:52.100 --> 42:55.760 and the memorial fund was to raise money 42:55.760 --> 42:57.920 to generically 42:57.920 --> 43:02.180 try to alleviate their needs, if we possibly could. 43:02.180 --> 43:05.100 Sometimes it was to help bury the person. 43:05.100 --> 43:08.680 Sometimes it was 43:08.680 --> 43:11.440 to help a person get resettled 43:11.440 --> 43:13.380 after coming out of the hospital. 43:13.380 --> 43:18.420 Other times, it was to help with other expenses that the person may have had. 43:18.420 --> 43:22.600 So what we wanted to do with the Memorial Fund, was to make money available 43:22.600 --> 43:24.600 basically upon request. 43:24.600 --> 43:26.380 Somebody would call us and say 43:26.380 --> 43:29.600 this is what the situation is 43:29.600 --> 43:31.440 and then we would write out a check 43:31.440 --> 43:33.640 and send it to that person right away 43:33.640 --> 43:34.560 and it would be, 43:34.560 --> 43:36.840 would be a "no questions asked". 43:36.840 --> 43:39.600 What we didn't realize at that time, 43:39.600 --> 43:43.540 was that our organizing abilities 43:43.540 --> 43:47.380 at the time of the fire, 43:47.380 --> 43:50.460 and the start of the National New Orleans Memorial Fund, 43:50.460 --> 43:54.320 was the foundation stone, the cornerstone if you will, 43:54.320 --> 43:57.720 for what would happen ten years later with the AIDS epidemic 43:57.720 --> 44:01.140 of establishing our organizations at that time, 44:01.140 --> 44:03.580 for dealing with that epidemic. 44:03.580 --> 44:05.060 44:05.060 --> 44:07.760 The next morning, The Times-Picayune 44:07.760 --> 44:11.020 published an article about the memorial service, 44:11.020 --> 44:14.800 and it identified St. George's Episcopal Church. 44:14.800 --> 44:15.520 44:15.520 --> 44:19.360 "Well, I just finished reading, when the phone rang." 44:19.360 --> 45:45.680 45:45.680 --> 45:50.420 There were multiple attempts to find a church 45:50.420 --> 45:55.740 where there could be a large-scale memorial service for all the dead. 45:55.740 --> 45:56.940 I kept pushing. 45:56.940 --> 46:03.060 I called Baptist churches that laughed and hung up on me. 46:03.060 --> 46:04.740 I started calling everybody 46:04.740 --> 46:06.200 I thought where someone told me 46:06.200 --> 46:07.900 there might be somebody 46:07.900 --> 46:11.100 "liberal" enough to let us hold our service there, 46:11.100 --> 46:13.360 but were willing to take the heat. 46:13.360 --> 46:16.040 And I was used to having to take the heat, 46:16.040 --> 46:17.880 and I knew what heterosexuals - 46:17.880 --> 46:20.160 they were persecuted worse than we were 46:20.160 --> 46:22.440 when they were friends of ours. 46:22.440 --> 46:24.760 So I said, "what do we do?" 46:24.760 --> 46:27.620 I called the Archbishop's office 46:27.620 --> 46:30.440 and they wanted to know if anybody who had died was Catholic 46:30.440 --> 46:32.700 and I said "well, I think...." 46:32.700 --> 46:35.060 [Office response:] "They would have to call - the families would. 46:35.060 --> 46:37.060 We don't give our church, 46:37.060 --> 46:38.940 let anybody use our churches 46:38.940 --> 46:40.770 for something like that." 46:40.770 --> 46:42.920 They were very nasty on the phone. 46:42.920 --> 46:44.320 I couldn't get over it. 46:44.320 --> 46:46.940 They contacted a Lutheran Church 46:46.940 --> 46:50.020 who said well, "we won't let you use our church, 46:50.020 --> 46:52.920 but you might try this, 46:52.920 --> 46:53.860 this, 46:53.860 --> 46:55.820 this church over here. 46:55.820 --> 46:58.580 It's in a black neighborhood. 46:58.580 --> 46:59.720 It has a black minister, 46:59.720 --> 47:02.880 and they're very tolerant of aliens there." 47:02.880 --> 47:05.120 They used the word "aliens"! 47:05.120 --> 47:10.120 As though gays and lesbians come from outer space or something! 47:10.120 --> 47:12.580 47:12.580 --> 47:18.140 I wanted to use a church property, 47:18.140 --> 47:19.500 but we kept looking and saying, 47:19.500 --> 47:21.460 "if we CAN'T, what do we do?" 47:21.460 --> 47:23.520 Finally we said, "ok, 47:23.520 --> 47:25.140 we will hold the service right here, 47:25.140 --> 47:28.360 in front of the of the Up Stairs Lounge." 47:28.360 --> 47:29.360 47:29.360 --> 47:31.780 I found out that there was a Vieux Carre Commission 47:31.780 --> 47:35.920 and they had the power to shut down a street if they needed to. 47:35.920 --> 47:37.600 And so I went to the Vieux Carre Commission 47:37.600 --> 47:39.200 and they said, "Yes." 47:39.200 --> 47:40.580 They would shut down the streets 47:40.580 --> 47:42.320 so we could hold the service in the street, 47:42.320 --> 47:44.340 if I couldn't find a place. 47:44.340 --> 47:45.080 47:45.080 --> 47:48.420 Many people were hurt by the fact 47:48.420 --> 47:51.800 that churches were not paying attention to those who were injured. 47:51.800 --> 47:56.060 Churches were not paying attention to those who had died. 47:56.060 --> 47:58.960 And that was very painful. 47:58.960 --> 48:00.720 48:00.720 --> 48:02.800 Religion, 48:02.800 --> 48:04.680 love it or hate it, 48:04.680 --> 48:08.260 religion plays a very important part in lives of people 48:08.260 --> 48:10.820 and they grow up with it 48:10.820 --> 48:13.180 and they have certain expectations 48:13.180 --> 48:17.100 and even if there's a point at which... 48:17.100 --> 48:19.580 48:19.580 --> 48:23.720 religion says to you, "you don't belong here anymore", 48:23.720 --> 48:27.520 you want to feel that at the time of death, 48:27.520 --> 48:29.660 that at least religion will respond at that point of time, 48:29.660 --> 48:32.360 simply out of empathy, 48:32.360 --> 48:34.600 out of some type of compassion. 48:34.600 --> 48:37.200 And I think the churches at the time of the fire, 48:37.200 --> 48:39.980 the response of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese, 48:39.980 --> 48:43.500 was most definitely, beyond any question of doubt, 48:43.500 --> 48:45.660 Anti-Christian. 48:45.660 --> 48:50.720 It was contrary to what 48:50.720 --> 48:52.900 I believe the Gospel calls us to do. 48:52.900 --> 48:54.560 Now admittedly, 48:54.560 --> 48:59.180 the Catholic Church has historically regarded homosexuality as a sin 48:59.180 --> 49:01.840 or an aberration. 49:01.840 --> 49:04.980 49:04.980 --> 49:08.640 But even the earliest news reports 49:08.640 --> 49:15.080 were dealing with the possibility that the fire had been intentionally set. 49:15.080 --> 49:21.900 Certainly, a church leader could have gone on record as saying 49:21.900 --> 49:25.600 that murdering multiple people 49:25.600 --> 49:27.360 was wrong. 49:27.360 --> 49:31.540 Certainly, a church leader could have gone on record as saying 49:31.540 --> 49:34.720 that he wished the police, 49:34.720 --> 49:37.240 that he prayed the police 49:37.240 --> 49:41.700 would have every success in apprehending the culprit. 49:41.700 --> 49:45.060 Certainly, a church leader could have said, 49:45.060 --> 49:50.320 even though I disagree with the way these people live their lives, 49:50.320 --> 49:56.020 they should not have been the victims of an arsonist. 49:56.020 --> 49:58.740 Because Jesus was the man who sat down 49:58.740 --> 50:04.040 with prostitutes and tax collectors and all kinds of undesirables, 50:04.040 --> 50:08.160 and he found room in his heart for those people and 50:08.160 --> 50:12.160 Archbishop Hannan could have and should have done the same. 50:12.160 --> 50:13.600 50:13.600 --> 50:18.180 Not all churches were hostile and devoid of compassion. 50:18.180 --> 50:21.360 With the blessing of Bishop Finis Crutchfield, 50:21.360 --> 50:23.760 Reverend Edward Kennedy opened the doors to 50:23.760 --> 50:27.320 St. Mark's Methodist Church for the memorial service. 50:27.320 --> 50:28.300 50:28.300 --> 50:31.680 Yeah, I think Bishop Crutchfield thought it was important 50:31.680 --> 50:36.940 for St. Mark's to host the memorial service - 50:36.940 --> 50:40.880 was one, because he knew his own, 50:40.880 --> 50:45.520 you know, personal struggles and 50:45.520 --> 50:47.860 wished the church, 50:47.860 --> 50:50.340 at least in this moment, 50:50.340 --> 50:52.900 you know, would do the right thing. 50:52.900 --> 50:57.520 But I also think that it was an opportunity 50:57.520 --> 51:00.960 for the Bishop to use his influence 51:00.960 --> 51:03.360 in a way that 51:03.360 --> 51:05.820 spoke to the, 51:05.820 --> 51:07.240 at least in part, 51:07.240 --> 51:09.720 this church's commitment 51:09.720 --> 51:11.640 to justice. 51:11.640 --> 51:12.580 51:12.580 --> 51:14.940 We started passing out leaflets. 51:14.940 --> 51:17.000 All in the Vieux Carre. 51:17.000 --> 51:19.160 I had thousands printed, 51:19.160 --> 51:21.700 inviting people to the memorial service. 51:21.700 --> 51:25.660 I was shocked at the businesses who put them up. 51:25.660 --> 51:27.480 I mean businesses I wouldn't have expected. 51:27.480 --> 51:31.160 I was shocked at the ones who wouldn't put them up. 51:31.160 --> 51:34.140 And then I got a message - Morris and I. 51:34.140 --> 51:39.020 We went over to meet with the "business owners" of gay bars. 51:39.020 --> 52:05.840 52:05.840 --> 52:08.800 One of them made the mistake right off the bat, 52:08.800 --> 52:11.220 of calling me a "carpetbagger"! 52:11.220 --> 52:12.680 Well, I'm a Southerner! 52:12.680 --> 52:15.620 To call somebody a "carpetbagger" 52:15.620 --> 52:18.580 was a put-down of the worst sort! 52:18.580 --> 52:19.960 That meant something bad - 52:19.960 --> 52:22.920 people who came to take advantage of a situation. 52:22.920 --> 52:24.460 That's the way I took it! 52:24.460 --> 52:27.840 He's accusing me of coming in here somehow to take advantage of this! 52:27.840 --> 52:30.260 I had paid my own way there. 52:30.260 --> 52:32.260 The others paid their way there. 52:32.260 --> 52:33.520 None of us had money. 52:33.520 --> 52:35.600 I mean, we were not rich people 52:35.600 --> 52:37.300 and I like to remind people of that! 52:37.300 --> 52:38.800 We didn't have to go, 52:38.800 --> 52:40.320 but we did! 52:40.320 --> 52:43.160 And so, for somebody to do that 52:43.160 --> 52:44.820 and to say that in such a way 52:44.820 --> 52:48.440 to make it sound like we were opportunists there, 52:48.440 --> 52:51.060 was very, very upsetting. 52:51.060 --> 52:53.040 I thought it was grandstanding, 52:53.040 --> 52:54.760 self-serving 52:54.760 --> 52:56.960 and I thought it was gonna hurt us. 52:56.960 --> 52:59.120 Hurt us and the city. 52:59.120 --> 53:02.280 None of us saw the Up Stairs fire as, 53:02.280 --> 53:04.760 uh, 53:04.760 --> 53:07.920 as, as a problem 53:07.920 --> 53:10.840 with the police versus gays 53:10.840 --> 53:12.700 or the straights versus gays 53:12.700 --> 53:14.640 or the city versus gays. 53:14.640 --> 53:17.660 I mean, we didn't see it as a political thing. 53:17.660 --> 53:21.040 The whole idea of 53:21.040 --> 53:23.540 activism was 53:23.540 --> 53:25.080 53:25.080 --> 53:27.720 not even considered! 53:27.720 --> 53:30.420 I went up and told him, 53:30.420 --> 53:32.880 "I hate to take the wind out of your sails, 53:32.880 --> 53:39.120 I just don't think the fire was that big of deal in New Orleans." 53:39.120 --> 53:40.420 It was a horrible thing, 53:40.420 --> 53:41.620 it was a tragedy, 53:41.620 --> 53:43.040 blah, blah, blah... 53:43.040 --> 53:45.060 but, I mean, it was not personal! 53:45.060 --> 53:49.220 I said, "It. Is. A. Big. Deal! 53:49.220 --> 53:52.020 Over 20 people are dead! 53:52.020 --> 53:54.160 That's a big deal!" 53:54.160 --> 53:57.180 And I said, "it happened in one of OUR bars! 53:57.180 --> 53:58.960 THAT's a big deal! 53:58.960 --> 54:02.160 Members of my church are dead in that property! 54:02.160 --> 54:04.220 THAT's a big deal!!" 54:04.220 --> 54:05.340 54:05.340 --> 54:07.260 Maybe we should have been, 54:07.260 --> 54:10.720 you know, more compassionate. 54:10.720 --> 54:12.820 Maybe we should have been... 54:12.820 --> 54:15.560 there should have been more solidarity. 54:15.560 --> 54:18.020 There simply wasn't. 54:18.020 --> 54:24.020 54:24.020 --> 54:26.060 The day of the funeral, 54:26.060 --> 54:27.720 we gathered together, 54:27.720 --> 54:31.480 and I had no idea whether there would be people there or not 54:31.480 --> 54:34.340 and people started coming in. 54:34.340 --> 54:36.320 I was never... 54:36.320 --> 54:38.190 54:38.190 --> 54:42.860 Again, people who don't understand those time periods - 54:42.860 --> 54:45.440 how rough it was - 54:45.440 --> 54:47.780 I was never more proud 54:47.780 --> 54:51.700 to see all these GLBT people coming in for that service. 54:51.700 --> 54:55.080 We filled the balcony. We filled the church. 54:55.080 --> 54:55.940 54:55.940 --> 55:02.080 It meant everything that the Bishop of the Methodist Church had the guts to come to this service. 55:02.080 --> 55:05.520 I saw people there react, 55:05.520 --> 55:08.060 knowing, the gay folks who were there, 55:08.060 --> 55:11.140 the Methodists, that their Bishop was there! 55:11.140 --> 55:13.640 And he wasn't there to shut anything down! 55:13.640 --> 55:16.140 He was there to be be respectful 55:16.140 --> 55:18.540 and to be a part of the congregation. 55:18.540 --> 55:20.920 He said, "I want to come today to let you know", 55:20.920 --> 55:23.420 he says that, 55:23.420 --> 55:29.200 "many of those people who were burned to death in that fire were my friends". 55:29.200 --> 55:31.980 And, the way he said it, 55:31.980 --> 55:33.900 Let me know, again, 55:33.900 --> 55:35.180 he knew gay people. 55:35.180 --> 55:37.600 I mean, this is whatever he may have been at that time. 55:37.600 --> 55:39.300 I didn't know anything. 55:39.300 --> 55:42.960 That he, you know, he knew, at least. 55:42.960 --> 55:44.080 And he said, 55:44.080 --> 55:46.560 "No, no..I also want to let you know that, 55:46.560 --> 55:49.920 in the Methodist Church in Louisiana," 55:49.920 --> 55:51.340 he says that, 55:51.340 --> 55:54.180 "I wanted you to know that everybody here's not a redneck..." 55:54.180 --> 55:56.420 [Laughter] 55:56.420 --> 56:00.580 and he says, "number two, this pastor's not acting on his own". 56:00.580 --> 56:04.580 Reverend Kennedy absolutely had the support of his Bishop. 56:04.580 --> 56:05.960 56:05.960 --> 56:09.060 We opened the service 56:09.060 --> 56:12.380 with Reverend Paul Breton, if I remember right, 56:12.380 --> 56:14.620 who opened with prayer, 56:14.620 --> 56:18.680 John Gill led the music and read a scripture, 56:18.680 --> 56:21.480 then I preached: 56:21.480 --> 56:24.180 "Our friends will always have respect because 56:24.180 --> 56:26.620 they will forever be in our hearts! 56:26.620 --> 56:29.680 The memory of our loved ones is so visible, 56:29.680 --> 56:32.180 that I can almost feel their presence! 56:32.180 --> 56:33.420 If they could speak, 56:33.420 --> 56:34.400 they would tell us, 56:34.400 --> 56:37.580 'Hold our heads high'"! 56:37.580 --> 56:39.360 56:39.360 --> 56:42.880 When I finish preaching and 56:42.880 --> 56:46.060 Reverend John Gill got up and led the song, 56:46.060 --> 56:48.760 the pastor of the church passed me a note up, 56:48.760 --> 56:51.520 and he said, "Reverend Perry, to give you a heads-up, 56:51.520 --> 56:54.340 there is a camera crew who is set up 56:54.340 --> 56:57.900 across the street from the church 56:57.900 --> 56:59.860 and they're going to film you all as you come out. 56:59.860 --> 57:01.180 Now, there's a side door. 57:01.180 --> 57:02.520 There's a way to get out of this building: 57:02.520 --> 57:04.980 You will go out in an alley. 57:04.980 --> 57:06.420 And you tell the people, the ones who are frightened, 57:06.420 --> 57:07.780 that they can go out that way." 57:07.780 --> 57:09.920 So I got up and I said, "I'm so sorry." 57:09.920 --> 57:11.840 I said, "I feel like I've lied to you all". 57:11.840 --> 57:14.760 I said, "I cannot control what happens outside of this building, 57:14.760 --> 57:16.040 but I can control in here. 57:16.040 --> 57:18.560 I told you there would be no cameras". 57:18.560 --> 57:22.320 I said, "well, they've set up their cameras all across the street. 57:22.320 --> 57:23.920 They're waiting for everybody to leave. 57:23.920 --> 57:27.520 The pastor of the church told me this is the way you can leave the building, without being seen. 57:27.520 --> 57:28.940 So you who need to do it, 57:28.940 --> 57:31.560 this is how you get out of the building and go into the alley". 57:31.560 --> 57:34.200 And with that, a woman up in the balcony started screaming, 57:34.200 --> 57:35.060 "NO!" 57:35.060 --> 57:35.600 57:35.600 --> 57:36.500 "No!" 57:36.500 --> 57:37.560 "No!" 57:37.560 --> 57:39.800 "We came in the front door, 57:39.800 --> 57:42.180 we're gonna leave by the front door!" 57:42.180 --> 57:45.020 It's an old Southern thing, but it was the truth. 57:45.020 --> 57:46.700 But I'll tell you, 57:46.700 --> 57:51.580 I watched literally, people pick themselves up - 57:51.580 --> 57:54.360 People slumped over all at once stood tall, 57:54.360 --> 57:57.500 like, "if I'm gonna be on television, by God, 57:57.500 --> 57:58.620 57:58.620 --> 58:00.680 [voice cracking with emotion] 58:00.680 --> 58:04.240 I'm not gonna go out hiding my face." 58:04.240 --> 58:05.800 Nobody... 58:05.800 --> 58:07.900 nobody left by the side door. 58:07.900 --> 58:13.420 58:13.420 --> 58:17.520 The news coverage was picked up by the AP wire services 58:17.520 --> 58:19.720 and it went nationwide. 58:19.720 --> 58:24.820 Bill Larson was identified as being a homosexual pastor 58:24.820 --> 58:28.620 of a homosexual church. 58:28.620 --> 58:32.660 His mother was so horrified and shamed by the news coverage, 58:32.660 --> 58:35.260 that she refused to claim his body 58:35.260 --> 58:38.100 and take it home for burial. 58:38.100 --> 58:42.640 Ultimately, she released it to the Metropolitan Community Church. 58:42.640 --> 58:43.780 58:43.780 --> 58:45.660 There was not much left of his body 58:45.660 --> 58:48.260 so what was left of his body was cremated 58:48.260 --> 58:50.360 and the ashes were in an urn 58:50.360 --> 58:52.660 which they took back to their church. 58:52.660 --> 58:56.380 And for many years, that urn was housed in the altar 58:56.380 --> 59:00.620 that they used in the New Orleans chapter of the MCC, 59:00.620 --> 59:02.300 So that every time they had a service, 59:02.300 --> 59:06.680 people were literally saying prayers over his body. 59:06.680 --> 59:10.060 His remains now are in a vault 59:10.060 --> 59:13.160 donated by a member of the MCC, 59:13.160 --> 59:15.920 in the St. Roch Cemetery 59:15.920 --> 59:17.520 in New Orleans. 59:17.520 --> 59:19.780 He shares the space with other people. 59:19.780 --> 59:23.400 His name is not on the tablet on the outside. 59:23.400 --> 59:26.720 [solemn music] 59:26.720 --> 59:31.440 There were three victims of the fire whose bodies were never identified. 59:31.440 --> 59:33.160 There was a fourth victim, 59:33.160 --> 59:35.300 identified as Ferris LeBlanc, 59:35.300 --> 59:38.000 but his body was never claimed. 59:38.000 --> 59:39.540 59:39.540 --> 59:41.480 According to local laws, 59:41.480 --> 59:46.460 unclaimed bodies must be buried under the category of "indigents". 59:46.460 --> 59:49.420 And since Ferris LeBlanc was never claimed, 59:49.420 --> 59:52.560 and three other people were never identified, 59:52.560 --> 59:54.660 therefore couldn't be claimed, 59:54.660 --> 59:59.700 all four were buried in the New Orleans Pauper Cemetery. 59:59.700 --> 01:00:04.280 The MCC offered to pay for dignified burials for the men, 01:00:04.280 --> 01:00:08.040 but seeing that the church had no legal ties to the victims, 01:00:08.040 --> 01:00:10.860 the city refused to release the bodies. 01:00:10.860 --> 01:00:18.000 [somber music] 01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:22.680 Churches, 01:00:22.680 --> 01:00:25.480 People, 01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:28.660 Governments - 01:00:28.660 --> 01:00:32.340 Nobody gives a damn. 01:00:32.340 --> 01:00:34.000 Bodies burned so bad, 01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:37.340 that there was nothing left but the bones, 01:00:37.340 --> 01:00:41.440 and they were seared to the floor. 01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:43.800 What little flesh there was left on some of the bodies, 01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:45.440 the FBI come in... 01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:46.880 It was so bad, 01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:49.360 they had to take the fingertips off the bodies. 01:00:49.360 --> 01:00:54.320 [crying] 01:00:54.320 --> 01:00:58.220 So bad, they had to take the jaws out of all the skulls. 01:00:58.220 --> 01:00:59.320 How do you like that? 01:00:59.320 --> 01:01:01.980 The last remaining thing you have that people can identify you by - 01:01:01.980 --> 01:01:04.340 your teeth? 01:01:04.340 --> 01:01:06.240 32 people. 01:01:06.240 --> 01:01:07.640 01:01:07.640 --> 01:01:09.940 But they were just queers, you know. 01:01:09.940 --> 01:01:12.280 [sobbing] 01:01:12.280 --> 01:01:15.820 I had never seen the worst in my life 01:01:15.820 --> 01:01:18.120 of human nature. 01:01:18.120 --> 01:01:19.520 01:01:19.520 --> 01:01:23.400 It wasn't that New Orleans was any worse than anywhere else. 01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:25.820 It could have been in any city, 01:01:25.820 --> 01:01:28.760 and it probably would have been that way, 01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:31.680 in that time period. 01:01:31.680 --> 01:01:33.160 I want to tell you something! 01:01:33.160 --> 01:01:34.860 I want you to remember that those 30 people 01:01:34.860 --> 01:01:39.160 In New Orleans were human beings before they were anything else! 01:01:39.160 --> 01:01:41.020 We don't know what happened yet. 01:01:41.020 --> 01:01:45.300 The police now are saying they don't find any evidence that it was arson, 01:01:45.300 --> 01:01:47.380 but I've heard that story before! 01:01:47.380 --> 01:01:49.600 I know good and well, that if there had been 50 or 01:01:49.600 --> 01:01:53.820 even 30 individuals who were prominent in the community in New Orleans, 01:01:53.820 --> 01:01:55.260 outside of our community, 01:01:55.260 --> 01:01:57.940 they would be turning that town upside down, 01:01:57.940 --> 01:01:59.740 trying to find out what happened! 01:01:59.740 --> 01:02:01.120 01:02:01.120 --> 01:02:06.500 Investigators began concentrating on the possibility of arson. 01:02:06.500 --> 01:02:10.820 The investigation revealed that the fire started on or near 01:02:10.820 --> 01:02:13.780 the 2nd and 3rd step of the stairwell 01:02:13.780 --> 01:02:17.240 leading up to the main entrance of the lounge. 01:02:17.240 --> 01:02:19.500 While examining the stairwell, 01:02:19.500 --> 01:02:23.380 Major Henry Morris recovered an empty can of lighter fluid 01:02:23.380 --> 01:02:26.020 at the base of the stairs. 01:02:26.020 --> 01:02:30.240 The wooden stairs had been covered in highly flammable carpet. 01:02:30.240 --> 01:02:35.940 It was installed before flammability standards were established in 1971. 01:02:35.940 --> 01:02:39.400 "The majority of fires are preventable." 01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:44.700 Drapery and highly combustible wood paneling used to decorate the stairwell 01:02:44.700 --> 01:02:47.400 provided even more fuel for the fire, 01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:51.420 causing flames to race up the stairs toward the landing. 01:02:51.420 --> 01:02:54.620 By the time Luther Boggs opened the door, 01:02:54.620 --> 01:02:59.240 the stairwell was fully engulfed in flames. 01:02:59.240 --> 01:03:02.480 Once the blaze exploded into the lounge, 01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:06.580 the fire spread rapidly, at a very high temperature. 01:03:06.580 --> 01:03:12.940 This was evident by the extensive char left on the walls throughout the building. 01:03:12.940 --> 01:03:16.820 Accelerated by the combustible carpet and wooden panels, 01:03:16.820 --> 01:03:22.000 the fire's intensity was also fueled by the bar's distinctive decor, 01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:25.400 including the red rayon flocked wallpaper, 01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:28.580 posters and drapery. 01:03:28.580 --> 01:03:33.360 The fire blocked the only obvious way in and out of the bar. 01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:36.780 While there was a second exit located in the third room, 01:03:36.780 --> 01:03:38.380 the one leading to the roof, 01:03:38.380 --> 01:03:41.380 the exit was not obvious to patrons. 01:03:41.380 --> 01:03:45.380 The path to the door was obstructed by the stage and scenery. 01:03:45.380 --> 01:03:50.820 It would seem that only the bar manager knew of the door's existence. 01:03:50.820 --> 01:03:53.900 People searched for another way out. 01:03:53.900 --> 01:03:59.580 Many of the windows on the second floor were sealed over with wood paneling. 01:03:59.580 --> 01:04:02.940 Panic-stricken patrons ran to the remaining windows, 01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:04.760 ripped opened the wooden shutters 01:04:04.760 --> 01:04:06.440 and kicked out the glass, 01:04:06.440 --> 01:04:11.840 only to find their escape blocked by horizontal metal bars. 01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:15.600 Since the windows spanned nearly floor-to-ceiling, 01:04:15.600 --> 01:04:18.520 metal rods had been installed across each window 01:04:18.520 --> 01:04:21.720 as a safety precaution by previous tenants. 01:04:21.720 --> 01:04:25.120 They were installed to prevent people from falling through openings 01:04:25.120 --> 01:04:27.680 when the windows were raised. 01:04:27.680 --> 01:04:31.720 Ironically, a feature that was designed to keep people safe, 01:04:31.720 --> 01:04:34.300 wound up killing them. 01:04:34.300 --> 01:04:37.640 23 bodies were found next to the windows, 01:04:37.640 --> 01:04:40.680 stacked on top of each other. 01:04:40.680 --> 01:04:45.420 With a total of 13 engine companies and four ladder companies, 01:04:45.420 --> 01:04:47.140 the fire was brought under control 01:04:47.140 --> 01:04:50.620 within 15 minutes of the initial alarm. 01:04:50.620 --> 01:04:52.980 And despite their rescue efforts, 01:04:52.980 --> 01:04:54.980 the arsonist had ultimately caused 01:04:54.980 --> 01:04:58.820 the deadliest fire in New Orleans History. 01:04:58.820 --> 01:05:01.200 01:05:01.200 --> 01:05:05.840 But the identity of the arsonist remained a mystery. 01:05:05.840 --> 01:05:08.460 While there were several false confessions, 01:05:08.460 --> 01:05:10.860 the newspaper focused on one suspect 01:05:10.860 --> 01:05:14.380 who allegedly committed the crime. 01:05:14.380 --> 01:05:16.400 Investigators soon learned 01:05:16.400 --> 01:05:20.520 that the suspect was in California at the time of the fire, 01:05:20.520 --> 01:05:24.980 therefore, he was eliminated as a suspect. 01:05:24.980 --> 01:05:30.460 An anonymous letter was even sent to New Orleans Fire Chief William McCrossen, 01:05:30.460 --> 01:05:33.060 apologizing for the fire. 01:05:33.060 --> 01:05:37.300 But the investigation soon focused on an alleged hustler, 01:05:37.300 --> 01:05:39.480 who was identified by patrons as 01:05:39.480 --> 01:05:43.400 causing trouble in the bar earlier in the evening: 01:05:43.400 --> 01:05:47.300 26 year-old, Rodger Dale Nunez. 01:05:47.300 --> 01:05:48.880 According to reports, 01:05:48.880 --> 01:05:52.460 Rodger was irritating people in the bar. 01:05:52.460 --> 01:05:55.660 Michael Scarborough, an Up Stairs Lounge regular, 01:05:55.660 --> 01:05:58.700 grew weary of his obnoxious behavior. 01:05:58.700 --> 01:06:02.040 A confrontation soon followed. 01:06:02.040 --> 01:06:06.600 When Nunez approached his table and began harassing Scarborough, 01:06:06.600 --> 01:06:08.460 Michael jumped up from his chair, 01:06:08.460 --> 01:06:10.400 punched Nunez in the face, 01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:12.860 knocking him to the floor. 01:06:12.860 --> 01:06:16.120 According to Scarborough's statement to investigators, 01:06:16.120 --> 01:06:19.400 Rodger then looked up from the floor and said, 01:06:19.400 --> 01:06:22.680 "I'm going to burn you all out". 01:06:22.680 --> 01:06:24.680 After witnessing the altercation, 01:06:24.680 --> 01:06:31.100 Buddy Rasmussen instructed his bartender to kick Rodger out of the bar. 01:06:31.100 --> 01:06:32.920 There are a couple of things that might 01:06:32.920 --> 01:06:35.960 have led Rodger Nunez to start the fire. 01:06:35.960 --> 01:06:38.420 01:06:38.420 --> 01:06:42.800 One was, he was thrown out of the bar and was angry. 01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:49.080 The other, is that he seems to have suffered from, 01:06:49.080 --> 01:06:51.600 what we would now call, "internalized homophobia". 01:06:51.600 --> 01:06:57.640 In 1973, it was termed "sexual orientation disorder". 01:06:57.640 --> 01:06:59.400 01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:02.340 Someone who just 01:07:02.340 --> 01:07:07.260 was uncomfortable with or 01:07:07.260 --> 01:07:10.860 horrified by the fact that he was gay. 01:07:10.860 --> 01:07:14.340 So imagine for a moment, it's 1973. 01:07:14.340 --> 01:07:18.780 You come from a small town, deep in rural Louisiana. 01:07:18.780 --> 01:07:21.700 Your whole life you've been told by the church, 01:07:21.700 --> 01:07:23.400 by people at school, 01:07:23.400 --> 01:07:25.740 by medical professionals 01:07:25.740 --> 01:07:29.720 who still then regarded homosexuality as a mental disorder - 01:07:29.720 --> 01:07:31.500 Imagine you've been told that you're sick. 01:07:31.500 --> 01:07:32.960 That you're diseased. 01:07:32.960 --> 01:07:35.920 That you're morally unfit. 01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:39.700 And then you're in New Orleans 01:07:39.700 --> 01:07:44.480 and you're circulating in a more or less, 01:07:44.480 --> 01:07:48.260 openly gay environment 01:07:48.260 --> 01:07:50.840 and possibly, for the first time in your life, 01:07:50.840 --> 01:07:52.780 feeling really comfortable 01:07:52.780 --> 01:07:58.900 or getting to the point where you think you could maybe feel comfortable, 01:07:58.900 --> 01:08:03.520 being accepted by the "queers" and the "freaks", 01:08:03.520 --> 01:08:07.060 and then they throw you out. 01:08:07.060 --> 01:08:10.720 It's really easy to imagine 01:08:10.720 --> 01:08:14.300 him trying to strike back at people. 01:08:14.300 --> 01:08:15.440 01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:17.380 A few months after the fire, 01:08:17.380 --> 01:08:21.680 Rodger married a woman named Elaine. 01:08:21.680 --> 01:08:25.800 Even his marriage to her indicates internalized homophobia. 01:08:25.800 --> 01:08:28.400 First of all, it still happens today: 01:08:28.400 --> 01:08:31.180 that a lot of gay men try to cure themselves 01:08:31.180 --> 01:08:34.660 by entering into a heterosexual marriage. 01:08:34.660 --> 01:08:38.060 She was questioned by fire marshal investigators, 01:08:38.060 --> 01:08:42.500 at which point, she told them that their marriage had never been consummated, 01:08:42.500 --> 01:08:46.600 and that he admitted to her after they had gotten married, 01:08:46.600 --> 01:08:50.020 that he was homosexual. 01:08:50.020 --> 01:08:52.520 Rodger had a grand mal seizure 01:08:52.520 --> 01:08:55.700 during the first interrogation by the fire investigators, 01:08:55.700 --> 01:08:57.440 so he was brought to the hospital. 01:08:57.440 --> 01:08:59.440 That was a few days after the fire. 01:08:59.440 --> 01:09:03.920 The fire investigators did not interrogate him again until September 18th - 01:09:03.920 --> 01:09:05.900 almost two months after the fire. 01:09:05.900 --> 01:09:10.360 When the arson investigation team for the Fire Marshal's interviewed Rodger Nunez, 01:09:10.360 --> 01:09:12.040 they gave him a stress test. 01:09:12.040 --> 01:09:17.420 When he answered questions related to the fire 01:09:17.420 --> 01:09:20.660 and denied responsibility, 01:09:20.660 --> 01:09:24.960 the Dektor PSE showed signs of stress, 01:09:24.960 --> 01:09:28.980 which suggested he was lying when he said he knew nothing about the fire. 01:09:28.980 --> 01:09:29.660 01:09:29.660 --> 01:09:32.040 But it turns out, he also had a brain tumor. 01:09:32.040 --> 01:09:37.200 So I don't know if the grand mal seizure was a direct result of the brain tumor or not. 01:09:37.200 --> 01:09:40.760 I don't know if he had a brain tumor at the time, and that affected his judgment, 01:09:40.760 --> 01:09:43.640 and that's why he made such a poor judgment. 01:09:43.640 --> 01:09:47.840 He ended up committing suicide in November of 1974, 01:09:47.840 --> 01:09:52.120 and of course, there's no reason to know if that was because he felt guilt over the fire. 01:09:52.120 --> 01:09:54.420 He could have been distraught over the brain tumor. 01:09:54.420 --> 01:09:58.080 01:09:58.080 --> 01:10:03.560 I think that Rodger Nunez is the probable arsonist 01:10:03.560 --> 01:10:08.360 and my reason for believing that 01:10:08.360 --> 01:10:11.600 mostly has to do with 01:10:11.600 --> 01:10:14.260 the people who came forward after his death 01:10:14.260 --> 01:10:16.040 and said that when he was drunk, 01:10:16.040 --> 01:10:18.000 he would confess, 01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:20.720 and then when he was sober, he would retract. 01:10:20.720 --> 01:10:24.680 There's an old saying, it goes back to the ancient Romans: 01:10:24.680 --> 01:10:26.780 "In Vino Veritas" - 01:10:26.780 --> 01:10:29.600 "In Wine There Is Truth". 01:10:29.600 --> 01:10:32.620 There's something about alcohol 01:10:32.620 --> 01:10:34.500 that lowers inhibitions 01:10:34.500 --> 01:10:37.760 and makes people 01:10:37.760 --> 01:10:39.860 want to unburden themselves. 01:10:39.860 --> 01:10:41.120 01:10:41.120 --> 01:10:46.360 But, I do not believe 01:10:46.360 --> 01:10:49.640 that the person who did this, 01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:51.760 when they set this fire, 01:10:51.760 --> 01:10:55.580 had ANY 01:10:55.580 --> 01:10:58.940 idea, 01:10:58.940 --> 01:11:02.500 notwithstanding what they may have said before, 01:11:02.500 --> 01:11:04.600 that it would do what it did! 01:11:04.600 --> 01:11:07.580 01:11:07.580 --> 01:11:09.560 I just can't believe it. 01:11:09.560 --> 01:11:10.240 01:11:10.240 --> 01:11:15.060 The fire was started by a can of Ronsonol lighter fluid. 01:11:15.060 --> 01:11:18.120 It was apparently purchased at a Walgreens drugstore 01:11:18.120 --> 01:11:21.000 a block away from the Up Stairs Lounge. 01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:22.420 At the time, 01:11:22.420 --> 01:11:24.880 Ronsonol was sold in three sizes: 01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:26.400 a four and a half ounce can, 01:11:26.400 --> 01:11:27.480 a seven ounce can 01:11:27.480 --> 01:11:29.560 and a twelve ounce can. 01:11:29.560 --> 01:11:34.140 The clerk at the tobacco counter reported this young man, 01:11:34.140 --> 01:11:35.960 who she described, 01:11:35.960 --> 01:11:37.060 physically it was a match, 01:11:37.060 --> 01:11:40.840 and she described him looking very nervous and distraught. 01:11:40.840 --> 01:11:44.780 And he was looking for the four and a half ounce can 01:11:44.780 --> 01:11:46.280 and there weren't any on the shelves, 01:11:46.280 --> 01:11:48.080 and she said they were out of stock. 01:11:48.080 --> 01:11:53.940 So she sold this young man a seven ounce can of lighter fluid instead. 01:11:53.940 --> 01:11:58.360 If you were intending to start a fire and hurt people, 01:11:58.360 --> 01:12:05.100 you wouldn't be looking for the smallest size can of lighter fluid. 01:12:05.100 --> 01:12:07.800 And when Miss Fury 01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:10.160 told the writer Johnny Townsend, 01:12:10.160 --> 01:12:13.100 that Rodger had confessed to her 01:12:13.100 --> 01:12:15.480 that he had set the fire, 01:12:15.480 --> 01:12:17.180 she said that he was weeping 01:12:17.180 --> 01:12:19.240 and said over and over, 01:12:19.240 --> 01:12:20.570 that he didn't mean to do it. 01:12:20.570 --> 01:12:23.220 He just wanted to scare people. 01:12:23.220 --> 01:12:28.600 And that's consistent with a man looking for the smallest size can of lighter fluid. 01:12:28.600 --> 01:12:31.040 01:12:31.040 --> 01:12:34.260 What he didn't know, 01:12:34.260 --> 01:12:36.660 was that the carpet 01:12:36.660 --> 01:12:39.080 was basically a firebomb waiting to happen, 01:12:39.080 --> 01:12:42.400 under the right circumstances. 01:12:42.400 --> 01:12:45.760 And that the lighter fluid, in a stairwell 01:12:45.760 --> 01:12:47.940 that acted as a chimney flue, 01:12:47.940 --> 01:12:53.280 would create exactly the set of circumstances needed 01:12:53.280 --> 01:12:55.740 to cause the damage that he did. 01:12:55.740 --> 01:12:58.520 Now there's no way he could have known that. 01:12:58.520 --> 01:13:02.280 So I think Rodger Nunez is responsible for the fire, 01:13:02.280 --> 01:13:08.100 but I also think the fire was just a childish prank gone hideously wrong. 01:13:08.100 --> 01:13:10.500 01:13:10.500 --> 01:13:15.020 I can forgive him for 01:13:15.020 --> 01:13:17.360 what he did, because, 01:13:17.360 --> 01:13:19.060 you know, like Jesus said, 01:13:19.060 --> 01:13:21.980 "they know not what they do". 01:13:21.980 --> 01:13:25.380 And I don't think he really knew what the consequences would be. 01:13:25.380 --> 01:13:27.940 He never really knew 01:13:27.940 --> 01:13:29.480 how many people he would hurt 01:13:29.480 --> 01:13:31.400 or how many lives he would touch. 01:13:31.400 --> 01:13:33.780 01:13:33.780 --> 01:13:35.660 It's difficult. 01:13:35.660 --> 01:13:37.230 01:13:37.230 --> 01:13:41.360 But again, the man was sick. 01:13:41.360 --> 01:13:43.920 He has to have been sick! 01:13:43.920 --> 01:13:44.840 01:13:44.840 --> 01:13:47.760 But absolutely somewhere, 01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:49.760 you have to have forgiveness, 01:13:49.760 --> 01:13:52.080 and we will never know who did it, but if he did, 01:13:52.080 --> 01:13:54.600 of course he's forgiven. 01:13:54.600 --> 01:13:57.100 It'll never help bring back the dead 01:13:57.100 --> 01:13:59.040 and he's dead too. 01:13:59.040 --> 01:14:00.960 If he's the one who did it, 01:14:00.960 --> 01:14:05.400 he was the 33rd person to die as a result of that fire, 01:14:05.400 --> 01:14:07.800 and we have to remember that. 01:14:07.800 --> 01:14:10.200 01:14:10.200 --> 01:14:15.960 The memorial service did not end my grieving process. 01:14:15.960 --> 01:14:18.900 Something happened to me, personally, you know. 01:14:18.900 --> 01:14:22.580 Losing a family. 01:14:22.580 --> 01:14:25.280 A walking nervous breakdown. 01:14:25.280 --> 01:14:28.260 Things happened to people 01:14:28.260 --> 01:14:29.860 after the fire - 01:14:29.860 --> 01:14:33.440 the people that survived 01:14:33.440 --> 01:14:35.240 and the friends of people - 01:14:35.240 --> 01:14:41.320 the friends who were friends of the survivors and of the dead, 01:14:41.320 --> 01:14:43.480 They had to deal with it in their own way. 01:14:43.480 --> 01:14:44.420 01:14:44.420 --> 01:14:45.960 I drank a lot. 01:14:45.960 --> 01:14:47.960 That helped me get through it. 01:14:47.960 --> 01:14:51.460 I think I drank rum every day, for like two years. 01:14:51.460 --> 01:14:53.780 I would get up and get ready and go to work or on my lunch hour 01:14:53.780 --> 01:14:58.000 I'd go have a couple of rum and Cokes and then go back to work and then I'd go home and have a couple more 01:14:58.000 --> 01:15:02.160 rum and Cokes, and watch TV until I fell asleep. 01:15:02.160 --> 01:15:06.080 And I had several people who had approached me during that time to go on dates and stuff, 01:15:06.080 --> 01:15:07.640 and I wouldn't do it because I felt like 01:15:07.640 --> 01:15:09.580 if I got close to somebody, 01:15:09.580 --> 01:15:10.820 I would have to go through that again. 01:15:10.820 --> 01:15:12.920 He might die and I'd have to go through it again. 01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:13.420 01:15:13.420 --> 01:15:15.540 I'd try to sleep at night. 01:15:15.540 --> 01:15:17.360 I'd wake up with nightmares. 01:15:17.360 --> 01:15:20.020 I'd see those people burning again, you know. 01:15:20.020 --> 01:15:21.380 01:15:21.380 --> 01:15:24.160 We were damaged emotionally. 01:15:24.160 --> 01:15:24.800 01:15:24.800 --> 01:15:27.960 Like I say, I feel like I've been... 01:15:27.960 --> 01:15:30.540 been robbed and cheated, 01:15:30.540 --> 01:15:32.520 because I missed all his life. 01:15:32.520 --> 01:15:33.100 01:15:33.100 --> 01:15:35.460 I used to be kind of angry with God, 01:15:35.460 --> 01:15:38.100 just not long afterward, thinking, 01:15:38.100 --> 01:15:39.320 "Why did you save ... 01:15:39.320 --> 01:15:40.140 Why am I.. 01:15:40.140 --> 01:15:41.800 Why do I have to go through...?" 01:15:41.800 --> 01:15:46.360 I mean, I went through emotions like the rest of us did, 01:15:46.360 --> 01:15:47.980 just heavy emotions. 01:15:47.980 --> 01:15:49.920 And I'd tell God, 01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:52.940 I said, "Thank you. You saved my life." 01:15:52.940 --> 01:15:55.720 "Thank you for not letting me burn up." 01:15:55.720 --> 01:15:58.300 And I'd say, "but next time, 01:15:58.300 --> 01:16:00.080 just let me die". 01:16:00.080 --> 01:16:02.620 01:16:02.620 --> 01:16:05.820 The fire affected Phil tremendously. 01:16:05.820 --> 01:16:08.460 Emotionally, because he lost a lot of friends, 01:16:08.460 --> 01:16:10.460 but it also affected him financially 01:16:10.460 --> 01:16:12.380 for the next 10 or 11 years. 01:16:12.380 --> 01:16:16.140 He fought legal battles constantly. 01:16:16.140 --> 01:16:17.940 It basically bankrupted him. 01:16:17.940 --> 01:16:18.680 01:16:18.680 --> 01:16:23.620 Many of the people who were survivors or their families of the people who died, 01:16:23.620 --> 01:16:25.200 tried to sue Phil Esteve 01:16:25.200 --> 01:16:27.200 and they tried to sue the city, 01:16:27.200 --> 01:16:29.800 but the the verdict was finally, 01:16:29.800 --> 01:16:31.600 it wasn't the city's fault that the bar burned, 01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:34.080 and it wasn't Phil Esteve's fault that the bar burned, 01:16:34.080 --> 01:16:36.340 it was the arsonist's fault that the bar burned. 01:16:36.340 --> 01:16:38.310 01:16:38.310 --> 01:16:40.760 The status of the case, I suppose 01:16:40.760 --> 01:16:43.860 based on the New Orleans Police Department's case files, 01:16:43.860 --> 01:16:46.360 is it's closed. 01:16:46.360 --> 01:16:51.780 They basically closed it on August 30th of 1973 01:16:51.780 --> 01:16:56.700 and there's no indication that they've ever continued it since then. 01:16:56.700 --> 01:17:00.620 The question that sticks in my mind is 01:17:00.620 --> 01:17:04.440 why the police stopped their investigation when they did. 01:17:04.440 --> 01:17:08.120 And the police, by the way, never questioned the man they had identified as the suspect. 01:17:08.120 --> 01:17:10.720 The fire marshal investigation team did, 01:17:10.720 --> 01:17:13.200 but the police never did. 01:17:13.200 --> 01:17:14.020 01:17:14.020 --> 01:17:17.740 I think the police could have made more of an effort to find out who did it, 01:17:17.740 --> 01:17:19.940 whether it was Rodger or someone else. 01:17:19.940 --> 01:17:23.080 There could have at least had been an arrest that made an attempt. 01:17:23.080 --> 01:17:25.400 I think the gay community 01:17:25.400 --> 01:17:26.610 would have 01:17:26.610 --> 01:17:30.720 been able to overcome this tragedy better, 01:17:30.720 --> 01:17:34.100 if they had felt there was a good faith effort 01:17:34.100 --> 01:17:36.000 at capturing the person who was responsible, 01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:37.400 and I don't think that happened. 01:17:37.400 --> 01:17:38.080 01:17:38.080 --> 01:17:42.620 The arson investigation unit of the State Fire Marshal 01:17:42.620 --> 01:17:46.040 continued pursuing the case until 1980, 01:17:46.040 --> 01:17:52.320 at which point, the man, who I believe then was State Fire Marshall Frank Locascio Jr., 01:17:52.320 --> 01:17:55.060 basically closed it for the team, 01:17:55.060 --> 01:17:57.560 recognizing that 01:17:57.560 --> 01:17:59.420 the suspect was dead - 01:17:59.420 --> 01:18:03.100 had been dead for six years by that point. 01:18:03.100 --> 01:18:07.340 That no one was going to come forward with any information 01:18:07.340 --> 01:18:09.020 to further solidify the case 01:18:09.020 --> 01:18:10.780 and even if they did, 01:18:10.780 --> 01:18:13.380 how do you try a dead suspect? 01:18:13.380 --> 01:18:16.500 So, it was officially closed. 01:18:16.500 --> 01:18:17.460 01:18:17.460 --> 01:18:21.580 The Up Stairs Lounge fire forced New Orleans to acknowledge, 01:18:21.580 --> 01:18:23.520 yes, we do have a gay community here. 01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:25.200 It's something everybody knew, 01:18:25.200 --> 01:18:28.780 but something nobody ever talked about. 01:18:28.780 --> 01:18:30.540 Two months after the fire or three months, 01:18:30.540 --> 01:18:34.020 in September of 1973, 01:18:34.020 --> 01:18:36.240 The arch-conservative, Times-Picayune, 01:18:36.240 --> 01:18:38.820 ran a week-long series of articles 01:18:38.820 --> 01:18:40.800 that focused on the gay community 01:18:40.800 --> 01:18:44.120 and the very first one had a headline that read, 01:18:44.120 --> 01:18:48.620 "Gay Community Surfaces In Fire Tragedy", 01:18:48.620 --> 01:18:50.200 or something to that effect. 01:18:50.200 --> 01:18:54.600 There were in-depth articles about "what does it mean to be gay?" 01:18:54.600 --> 01:18:57.020 And "what does it mean to be gay in New Orleans"? 01:18:57.020 --> 01:18:58.600 And I don't think that would have happened 01:18:58.600 --> 01:19:01.140 had it not been for the Up Stairs Lounge fire. 01:19:01.140 --> 01:19:04.020 The fire definitely changed my 01:19:04.020 --> 01:19:06.000 personal view point, 01:19:06.000 --> 01:19:08.760 my perspective on gay people, 01:19:08.760 --> 01:19:10.460 because, 01:19:10.460 --> 01:19:14.680 I don't know that I ever really knew anyone up close 01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:16.760 who was gay. 01:19:16.760 --> 01:19:18.000 The first thing it taught me is that 01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:20.100 these are human beings and they're suffering. 01:19:20.100 --> 01:19:23.980 They bleed like I do. They hurt like I do. 01:19:23.980 --> 01:19:26.280 And.. 01:19:26.280 --> 01:19:29.360 sometimes you need to have your eyes opened 01:19:29.360 --> 01:19:32.040 to have your heart opened as well, 01:19:32.040 --> 01:19:34.740 and it brought home their humanity to me 01:19:34.740 --> 01:19:37.500 in a way that, you know, 01:19:37.500 --> 01:19:40.780 I don't know when that would have happened otherwise. 01:19:40.780 --> 01:19:45.460 Whether or not the Up Stairs Lounge launched 01:19:45.460 --> 01:19:47.880 the gay rights movement in New Orleans, 01:19:47.880 --> 01:19:50.320 is a matter of fierce debate 01:19:50.320 --> 01:19:52.720 among New Orleans gay activists, 01:19:52.720 --> 01:19:57.400 and I spoke to people on both sides of that question. 01:19:57.400 --> 01:19:58.660 01:19:58.660 --> 01:20:02.020 Some people say yes, it absolutely did. 01:20:02.020 --> 01:20:06.260 It raised consciousness. It got people organized. 01:20:06.260 --> 01:20:09.520 Language to that effect, is in the memorial plaque 01:20:09.520 --> 01:20:12.960 that's in the sidewalk outside of the bar. 01:20:12.960 --> 01:20:17.800 The plaque indicates that the fire was responsible for 01:20:17.800 --> 01:20:22.000 getting an LGBT rights movement going in New Orleans. 01:20:22.000 --> 01:20:24.200 A number of other people argue 01:20:24.200 --> 01:20:26.860 that it wasn't the Up Stairs fire at all. 01:20:26.860 --> 01:20:28.780 That 01:20:28.780 --> 01:20:33.220 concentrated sustained activism 01:20:33.220 --> 01:20:37.940 didn't get started in New Orleans for another four years, 01:20:37.940 --> 01:20:39.800 until 1977. 01:20:39.800 --> 01:20:42.840 And what happened in 1977, 01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:44.900 was Anita Bryant had been booked 01:20:44.900 --> 01:20:50.740 to perform in the New Orleans Summer Pops Symphony concert. 01:20:50.740 --> 01:20:54.340 The city's gay and lesbian population 01:20:54.340 --> 01:21:00.000 turned out in the thousands to protest her performance. 01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:04.560 Some people say that that, is really the start 01:21:04.560 --> 01:21:08.960 of sustained, organized gay activism in New Orleans. 01:21:08.960 --> 01:21:11.020 01:21:11.020 --> 01:21:14.220 For decades, on the anniversary of the fire, 01:21:14.220 --> 01:21:15.480 efforts have been made 01:21:15.480 --> 01:21:18.500 to honor the dead and promote healing. 01:21:18.500 --> 01:21:22.520 Some anniversaries have been more visible than others. 01:21:22.520 --> 01:21:26.180 A permanent historical marker was enshrined in the sidewalk 01:21:26.180 --> 01:21:29.360 outside the former entrance of the Up Stairs Lounge 01:21:29.360 --> 01:21:33.240 during the 30th Anniversary in 2003. 01:21:33.240 --> 01:21:34.840 01:21:34.840 --> 01:21:37.860 City officials in 1973, 01:21:37.860 --> 01:21:42.760 didn't want to acknowledge it had taken place. 01:21:42.760 --> 01:21:48.780 In 2013, on the 40th Anniversary of the fire, 01:21:48.780 --> 01:21:53.020 Mayor Mitch Landrieu, son of Mayor Moon Landrieu, 01:21:53.020 --> 01:21:56.180 who had been mayor in 1973, 01:21:56.180 --> 01:21:58.980 proclaimed a day for the Up Stairs victims. 01:21:58.980 --> 01:21:59.920 01:21:59.920 --> 01:22:02.720 I believe that the memorial provided 01:22:02.720 --> 01:22:06.020 a large measure of healing for the community. 01:22:06.020 --> 01:22:10.760 For the ones who hated to talk about it 01:22:10.760 --> 01:22:13.800 because of the hurt and loss that they suffered. 01:22:13.800 --> 01:22:16.480 Some of them were able to attend the memorial. 01:22:16.480 --> 01:22:20.300 It was an odd mixture of both tragedy and triumph. 01:22:20.300 --> 01:22:21.500 We were there to commemorate. 01:22:21.500 --> 01:22:22.940 We were there to remember 01:22:22.940 --> 01:22:25.120 and there to honor. 01:22:25.120 --> 01:22:28.140 [Reading of the victims' names] 01:22:28.140 --> 01:22:31.740 And it was a very solemn occasion, 01:22:31.740 --> 01:22:34.060 but at the same time, 01:22:34.060 --> 01:22:38.540 there was also great joy in just reveling in the progress 01:22:38.540 --> 01:22:40.640 we have made as a community, 01:22:40.640 --> 01:22:42.060 and yet with a tinge of regret 01:22:42.060 --> 01:22:45.120 that these 32 people weren't there to see it. 01:22:45.120 --> 01:22:49.140 [Jazz Procession Music] 01:22:49.140 --> 01:22:51.380 01:22:51.380 --> 01:22:57.140 I felt that the victims were finally getting some recognition 01:22:57.140 --> 01:23:03.360 that hadn't yet been fully forthcoming. 01:23:03.360 --> 01:23:06.740 If I was up there, I'd say, "wow it's about time". 01:23:06.740 --> 01:23:11.800 [Laughter] 01:23:11.800 --> 01:23:13.540 Uh, 01:23:13.540 --> 01:23:15.620 truly. 01:23:15.620 --> 01:23:17.600 About time. 01:23:17.600 --> 01:23:19.100 01:23:19.100 --> 01:23:22.820 In 2013, when Gregory Aymond, 01:23:22.820 --> 01:23:26.340 the sitting Archbishop, 01:23:26.340 --> 01:23:30.060 finally released a statement about the fire at the Up Stairs Lounge, 01:23:30.060 --> 01:23:32.140 I had kind of mixed feelings. 01:23:32.140 --> 01:23:34.080 On one hand, 01:23:34.080 --> 01:23:38.600 he was acknowledging that the church should have made a statement 01:23:38.600 --> 01:23:40.300 at the time, 01:23:40.300 --> 01:23:44.500 to acknowledge the sufferings and the victims and their families. 01:23:44.500 --> 01:23:46.060 On the other hand, 01:23:46.060 --> 01:23:48.920 his statement was very heavily qualified. 01:23:48.920 --> 01:23:52.900 He said, "if" we did not release a statement at the time. 01:23:52.900 --> 01:23:55.560 Well, there's no "if" about it. 01:23:55.560 --> 01:24:01.340 So when people apologize, but the word "if" occurs, 01:24:01.340 --> 01:24:03.740 it's kind of a non-apology. 01:24:03.740 --> 01:24:06.800 I would have been more impressed if 01:24:06.800 --> 01:24:10.500 any members of the Chancery of the Archdiocese 01:24:10.500 --> 01:24:12.180 from that time period, 01:24:12.180 --> 01:24:13.660 would have come up and said, 01:24:13.660 --> 01:24:16.980 "we were wrong". 01:24:16.980 --> 01:24:19.020 That would have impressed me. 01:24:19.020 --> 01:24:21.040 01:24:21.040 --> 01:24:23.880 But not a vacant, "we were wrong", 01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:25.340 Not a, you know, 01:24:25.340 --> 01:24:28.280 an empty mea culpa. 01:24:28.280 --> 01:24:30.180 And I believe the Archbishop, 01:24:30.180 --> 01:24:32.780 for me, the Archbishop made just a very, 01:24:32.780 --> 01:24:35.100 a very empty motion. 01:24:35.100 --> 01:24:39.080 It was a sad, very sad day for a lot of people 01:24:39.080 --> 01:24:41.440 when the Roman Catholic Archdiocese 01:24:41.440 --> 01:24:43.740 failed to respond. 01:24:43.740 --> 01:24:46.280 01:24:46.280 --> 01:24:49.860 And another good thing I think the Archbishop could have said is, 01:24:49.860 --> 01:24:52.040 "We will not do this in the future. 01:24:52.040 --> 01:24:54.520 We will not prejudge people 01:24:54.520 --> 01:24:56.500 simply because they 01:24:56.500 --> 01:24:58.320 01:24:58.320 --> 01:25:02.900 were in a place we did not necessarily frequent ourselves." 01:25:02.900 --> 01:25:05.320 01:25:05.320 --> 01:25:07.380 Simply say, "we will not do this again". 01:25:07.380 --> 01:25:10.000 Had he said that, 01:25:10.000 --> 01:25:11.920 that might have impressed me. 01:25:11.920 --> 01:25:13.960 01:25:13.960 --> 01:25:16.700 These people lost their lives 01:25:16.700 --> 01:25:18.760 and their friends 01:25:18.760 --> 01:25:20.120 and their lovers 01:25:20.120 --> 01:25:23.660 and there are families who lost people they loved. 01:25:23.660 --> 01:25:27.640 They took a lot of love out of the world. 01:25:27.640 --> 01:25:30.480 I don't think that's ever good to take love out of the world. 01:25:30.480 --> 01:25:32.840 He left a void in a lot of people's lives. 01:25:32.840 --> 01:25:34.020 01:25:34.020 --> 01:25:37.600 I live with what happened to my Dad every day! 01:25:37.600 --> 01:25:39.460 01:25:39.460 --> 01:25:43.100 I believe my Dad was stuck in two worlds: 01:25:43.100 --> 01:25:45.720 He wanted this world with us 01:25:45.720 --> 01:25:48.080 and he wanted that world too, 01:25:48.080 --> 01:25:51.600 and I think he got caught between. 01:25:51.600 --> 01:25:53.720 Because, I mean, 01:25:53.720 --> 01:25:56.960 he always told Horace he would come back down to him, 01:25:56.960 --> 01:25:59.600 when he went back to Alabama. 01:25:59.600 --> 01:26:00.840 01:26:00.840 --> 01:26:03.380 I believe my Dad loved Horace, I really do. 01:26:03.380 --> 01:26:05.880 They were both good people - 01:26:05.880 --> 01:26:07.440 Caring, 01:26:07.440 --> 01:26:10.120 very caring, 01:26:10.120 --> 01:26:13.940 very loving people, 01:26:13.940 --> 01:26:16.600 and then had their love took away. 01:26:16.600 --> 01:26:19.560 01:26:19.560 --> 01:26:21.480 Reggie gave me the name "Regina". 01:26:21.480 --> 01:26:22.840 When I first did the drag show, 01:26:22.840 --> 01:26:26.840 I was trying to think of a name to use on stage. 01:26:26.840 --> 01:26:29.740 His name was Reginald Eugene Adams. 01:26:29.740 --> 01:26:32.180 He knew Latin. He said it meant "queen". 01:26:32.180 --> 01:26:34.740 He said I got the perfect name for you. It's "Regina". 01:26:34.740 --> 01:26:37.860 He said you'll be Regina, because you're a queen. 01:26:37.860 --> 01:26:39.940 You'll always be my queen. 01:26:39.940 --> 01:26:41.720 So when he died, I said, 01:26:41.720 --> 01:26:44.500 "'You'll always be with me", 01:26:44.500 --> 01:26:48.380 and I legally changed my name to "Regina Adams" 01:26:48.380 --> 01:26:49.480 because of him, 01:26:49.480 --> 01:26:53.560 because he's the one true love of my life. 01:26:53.560 --> 01:26:57.360 I still pray and I still remember him in my prayers 01:26:57.360 --> 01:26:58.760 and I still talk to him and 01:26:58.760 --> 01:27:00.220 I still tell him I love him, 01:27:00.220 --> 01:27:01.860 and I will see you someday. 01:27:01.860 --> 01:27:03.820 I'll be with you. 01:27:03.820 --> 01:27:06.460 01:27:06.460 --> 01:27:08.020 I just think that 01:27:08.020 --> 01:27:10.420 there would have been a lot more 01:27:10.420 --> 01:27:12.560 success stories like those, 01:27:12.560 --> 01:27:15.100 as far as long-term relationships. 01:27:15.100 --> 01:27:18.040 People think, oh, it was a sleazy, seedy bar in the French Quarter 01:27:18.040 --> 01:27:20.180 and people were just having sex with everybody, 01:27:20.180 --> 01:27:23.080 but I think, 01:27:23.080 --> 01:27:25.240 if given the opportunity, 01:27:25.240 --> 01:27:28.560 we'd have seen more love come out of that 01:27:28.560 --> 01:27:30.620 and I think that's part of the tragedy here, 01:27:30.620 --> 01:27:35.060 is that those relationships never had a chance. 01:27:35.060 --> 01:27:38.720 These were real people who had lives, 01:27:38.720 --> 01:27:42.620 and it just doesn't seem right to not remember them. 01:27:42.620 --> 01:27:44.440 01:27:44.440 --> 01:27:47.880 If I could say something to him right now, 01:27:47.880 --> 01:27:50.360 01:27:50.360 --> 01:27:53.240 I would say, "Dad, 01:27:53.240 --> 01:27:55.620 I hope I turned out as good as you. 01:27:55.620 --> 01:27:58.560 I...I hope I turned out... 01:27:58.560 --> 01:28:00.720 that you're not ashamed of me. 01:28:00.720 --> 01:28:02.960 01:28:02.960 --> 01:28:05.280 And that I still miss you. 01:28:05.280 --> 01:28:06.480 01:28:06.480 --> 01:28:09.520 And I still love you. 01:28:09.520 --> 01:28:12.340 01:28:12.340 --> 01:28:16.200 And I hope my family 01:28:16.200 --> 01:28:17.760 has turned out, you know, 01:28:17.760 --> 01:28:20.120 to make you proud. 01:28:20.120 --> 01:28:22.000 Because you make me proud. 01:28:22.000 --> 01:28:22.720 01:28:22.720 --> 01:28:25.400 [choking back tears] 01:28:25.400 --> 01:28:26.000 01:28:26.000 --> 01:28:28.980 You make me proud." 01:28:28.980 --> 01:28:30.600 01:28:30.600 --> 01:28:35.620 It's just important for people to know what hatred and anger can do. 01:28:35.620 --> 01:28:37.400 You know, it can kill people. 01:28:37.400 --> 01:28:38.940 Lots of people. 01:28:38.940 --> 01:28:41.800 You know, it could cause a lot of harm. 01:28:41.800 --> 01:28:45.840 You know, people suffering because their loved ones were killed, 01:28:45.840 --> 01:28:48.780 because of anger and hatred. 01:28:48.780 --> 01:28:51.780 And so, it's got to be told. 01:28:51.780 --> 01:28:53.880 It's got to be, like, 01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:56.500 up in people's faces, so to speak, 01:28:56.500 --> 01:28:59.700 to where they have to recognize it 01:28:59.700 --> 01:29:03.880 and realize "hey, as a society, we have to change, 01:29:03.880 --> 01:29:05.820 and guard ourselves, 01:29:05.820 --> 01:29:08.380 so that we don't allow this to happen." 01:29:08.380 --> 01:29:09.860 01:29:09.860 --> 01:29:11.480 So, 01:29:11.480 --> 01:29:13.480 it is one of those things that happened, 01:29:13.480 --> 01:29:15.900 that, um, 01:29:15.900 --> 01:29:18.820 I hope will NEVER be repeated again. 01:29:18.820 --> 01:29:22.300 I hope nobody EVER has to live through what we did 01:29:22.300 --> 01:29:26.160 and what we saw, when we went to New Orleans, Louisiana. 01:29:26.160 --> 01:29:28.980 Never again, will I, 01:29:28.980 --> 01:29:29.920 you know, 01:29:29.920 --> 01:29:32.040 face that kind of stuff - 01:29:32.040 --> 01:29:33.020 I hope not! 01:29:33.020 --> 01:29:35.140 I pray not. 01:29:35.140 --> 01:29:37.140 But if it does happen, 01:29:37.140 --> 01:29:39.600 [voice cracking] 01:29:39.600 --> 01:29:41.640 Don't give up the struggle and the fight, 01:29:41.640 --> 01:29:42.900 as I tell people. 01:29:42.900 --> 01:29:44.420 Go and bury our dead, 01:29:44.420 --> 01:29:46.860 hold a service, 01:29:46.860 --> 01:29:51.920 and get ready to still make a difference in this world! 01:29:51.920 --> 01:29:55.220 01:29:55.220 --> 01:30:01.040 [mournful cello music] 01:30:01.040 --> 01:32:29.800 01:32:29.840 --> 01:32:34.820 [Song: "Upstairs Inferno", by Rachel Panay] 01:32:34.820 --> 01:36:44.340