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[intense music playing]

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[indistinct chatter]

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[Hawley] Mr. Zuckerberg,
let me start with you.

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Did I hear you say there's
no link between mental health

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and social media use?

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[Zuckerberg] Senator, what
I said is I think it's important

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to look at the science. I know people...

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[Hawley] Here's a quote
from your own study.

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Quote, "We make body image issues worse

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for one in three teen girls."

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This is your study.

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You increased anxiety and depression.

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[Zuckerberg] That's...
that's not... that's not...

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[Hawley] That's what it says,

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and you're here testifying to us in public

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that there's no link.

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You've been doing this for years.

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Have you apologized to the victims?

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-Would you like to do so now? -Well...

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[Hawley] They're here.
You're on national television.

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Would you like now to apologize

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to the victims who have
been harmed by your product?

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Show 'em the pictures.

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[cameras clicking]

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Has social media changed who we are?

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Super light question.

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[laughs]

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Um, okay. This is cool.

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Take one.

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[clapperboard clacks]

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When I got my first smartphone in 2008,

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I was convinced it would help me

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be a more productive person.

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[Trisha] I got my first
smartphone, I wanna say

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when I was maybe 10 or 11.

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I thought it was super
cool, super sleek, super shiny.

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That you have the ability
to go anywhere in the world,

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pull up your phone and
know exactly where you are

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and get directions,
that's a bit of a miracle.

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I can, you know, seek
information at my fingertips.

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I can see what my friends are up to.

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You know, I... I think like a
lot of young people thought,

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"What could go wrong?"

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[snap]

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Students around the
world are performing worse

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academically now.

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[teen 2] I wanna show
you guys what I've done

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to get success so quickly.

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[woman 1] When you reach a lot of people

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with your social media content,

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you increase the chances of you worrying.

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[notification dings]

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[Ilya] We sleep less than ever before.

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[woman 2] Mental stress
at night increases cortisol,

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blocking deep sleep.

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[teen 2] Is it a form of escapism?

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[influencer] Three ways to
enhance your natural beauty.

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Number one, get a lash lift.

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Number two, when shaping
your eyebrows, remove...

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[Kristin] Oh my God,
am I being a bad parent

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by letting them have screen time?

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[teen 2] Instagram is
kind of like your résumé.

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[news anchor 1] It's a constant battle

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between immediate
pleasure and self-control.

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But what is all of this screen time

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doing to our brains?

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This is the defining public
health issue of our time.

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When you become enslaved

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in your phone

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you lose your freedom.

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[camera shutter clicks]

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[Trisha] They thought we'd be
happy living inside our devices.

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Hello?

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[banging]

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[Trisha] I think it's time we fight back.

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[dramatic music]

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[projector whirring]

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[Trisha] Do you remember
the world before cell phones?

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[birds chirping]

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[soft relaxing music playing]

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[tires whirring]

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[Trisha] We didn't use to know
where everyone was all the time.

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We showed up at each
other's houses unannounced.

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[Tyler's mother] Oh, hey, Sammy.
I don't think Tyler's here yet.

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[Trisha] We made vague
plans to meet somewhere,

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and like magic, both people just showed up.

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We didn't always know
how to get somewhere...

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so we asked strangers for directions.

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We counted dollars and
cents to buy our movie tickets.

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Riding in the car meant choosing one album.

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Having a sleepover
meant choosing one movie.

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[car whooshes]

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[rain pattering]

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[Trisha] We watched
raindrops racing on the window

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and wrote movies in our heads.

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[camera clicks]

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[Trisha] There was more
boredom, more uncertainty...

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but those things made space
for us to notice the world...

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and each other.

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When we stood in line, we just waited.

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Do you remember that time?

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Because I barely do.

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Really, those early years of my childhood

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was just that last piece
of time where the default

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was something different.

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I spent a lot of my young years
just running around outside,

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playing with friends, being creative,

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um, chasing after the ice
cream truck on our bicycles.

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[interviewer] When do
you think that changed?

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I mean...

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[interviewer] Like, did it happen fast?

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It did happen really fast.
You know, I was born in 2000.

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[news anchor 2] One! Happy 2000!

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[Trisha] You know, Facebook
was launched in 2004.

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[Zuckerberg] And you
make a profile about yourself

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by answering some questions.

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And now we're at 100,000 people.

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So who knows where we're going next?

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[Trisha] The iPhone came along in 2007.

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IPod.

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[audience laughs]

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A phone. Are you getting it?

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[audience cheering]

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[audience clapping]

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[Trisha] My adolescence
was defined by this rapid shift

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in how people related to each other.

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[train whooshes]

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[Trisha] And that kind of
sparked my whole career

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in responsible tech.

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[Host 1] Trisha Prabhu,
inventor, founder, and CEO,

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the author of Rethink the Internet.

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I thought, "Why don't I
leverage technology to design

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the internet that I want to build?"

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We've seen everything
from democratic movements

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to, you know, movements for justice

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started on social media platforms,

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and it really has democratized,
right, who gets a voice.

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There's so many positive applications,

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and that really excites me.

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[keys clacking]

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[Trisha] I strongly believe
in the power of technology

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as a force for good.

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And what I experienced as a teenager

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was unfortunately the opposite of that.

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-[traffic whooshing] -[soft music]

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[Trisha] Growing up, I was
very happy with who I was,

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the way I looked.

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It felt like difference was celebrated.

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But when I got online, I
started to see this ideal of beauty

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that was not me.

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And that shook my confidence.

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[women laughing]

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[camera shutter clicking]

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[Trisha] A lot of the faces, the images...

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the so-called beautiful
people I was seeing were white.

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[phone clicks]

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[Trisha] All the things that made me,

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didn't fit the criteria.

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[slam]

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[shoes squeak]

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[keyboard keys clicking]

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[text pops]

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[notification dings]

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[Trisha] My friends decided
to play a cruel trick on me...

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as if what they said
online didn't really matter.

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[texts popping]

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[people laughing]

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[Trisha] Our culture was
condoning this behavior,

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Saying, "This is normal."

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But really, it made it
harder to trust your friends.

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That confidence, that sense of self

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that I'd had as a child
was on shaky ground.

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It was just very isolating, very lonely.

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You know, at the time,
no one talked about...

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I mean, the term "cyberbullying"
was not even in the vernacular.

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This idea of social media harms, you know,

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there was no conception of that.

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Each of these technologies
is asking us to forget

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something very essential about being human.

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[dial-up modem beeping and screeching]

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Well, I was a champion
of the internet in the 1990s.

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[dial-up modem white noise]

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[Sherry] I was basically saying

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that when you go on the internet...

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[keys clicking]

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[Sherry]...you have an opportunity

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to express aspects of yourself

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that, in the real world,
you're kind of shy about.

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In some of the cases,
the least likable parts

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of themselves.

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You could be more aggressive,
you could be more introverted.

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I had just written a book
that celebrated our life

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on the internet,

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and Wired magazine
called me up and they said,

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"Do you wanna be our cover person?"

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[Sherry] S... it was... it was wonderful.

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We would use what we
learned in the virtual world

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to live better lives in the real world.

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In 2009, that changed.

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You could say, with the like button.

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[digital data processing sounds]

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[AI voiceover] You've got likes.

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[upbeat music]

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Because now, people
were going on the internet

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not to experiment, but to please.

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[teen 3] It's all about likes.

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[teen 4] You want to be liked.

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-[teen 5] I like. -[teen 6] I like.

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[teen 7] I like.

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[Adam] Giving people
currency like numbers of views

211
00:09:30,779 --> 00:09:32,197
or numbers of likes,

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they create these artificial
goals that we strive for.

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And those goals are really irresistible.

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The visible numbers beneath each post,

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that have become indicators
for the popularity of content,

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that has trained us to
want more of those numbers

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00:09:48,464 --> 00:09:51,591
and trained us to attach
ourselves to the outcome

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00:09:51,676 --> 00:09:55,221
of every post, uh, in a
way that is really toxic.

219
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[Joni] We go into performance mode.

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[camera clicks]

221
00:10:00,643 --> 00:10:04,105
So if you're performing for
an audience on social media,

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00:10:04,187 --> 00:10:08,692
that is not the same as
building a trusting relationship.

223
00:10:08,775 --> 00:10:11,195
Social media is a bit of a misnomer.

224
00:10:11,278 --> 00:10:13,572
It's not really socializing.

225
00:10:13,655 --> 00:10:17,993
It's more of, like, a social
capital measuring machine.

226
00:10:20,037 --> 00:10:23,541
Teenagers have this intense
need to be accepted by others,

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and that's what drives
them more than anything.

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00:10:26,668 --> 00:10:30,840
And you give 'em a tool
that quantifies popularity.

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It's not only something
they're keenly aware of,

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it's something that's then
published to the whole world.

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00:10:37,138 --> 00:10:39,682
So-and-so has X amount of friends.

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00:10:39,764 --> 00:10:42,643
It has been a global
social science experiment.

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If you step back now, the results are in.

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Individuals, society, being
the most digitally connected

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and the most emotionally disconnected.

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00:10:53,988 --> 00:10:56,865
We're kind of compelling
kids to social media,

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00:10:56,948 --> 00:10:59,534
not fully understanding
its detrimental effect

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it's having on their levels
of depression and loneliness.

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00:11:02,996 --> 00:11:04,664
[birds chirping]

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00:11:04,749 --> 00:11:08,251
[water rushing]

241
00:11:12,423 --> 00:11:15,842
[footsteps rustling]

242
00:11:15,926 --> 00:11:20,014
[Kristin] As much as I love our house here

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00:11:20,096 --> 00:11:23,475
and I love the green,

244
00:11:23,558 --> 00:11:25,436
[Melancholic music]

245
00:11:25,519 --> 00:11:28,647
it's always really hard to return...

246
00:11:29,856 --> 00:11:32,150
because it brings it all back.

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00:11:33,735 --> 00:11:34,778
[chair scrapes]

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00:11:35,488 --> 00:11:38,783
[Kristin] Carson was very high energy.

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00:11:38,865 --> 00:11:42,035
He was funny, really, really funny.

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00:11:42,119 --> 00:11:46,289
And as he got older, he
loved to do jump scares on me.

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And I... and I told him,

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00:11:48,750 --> 00:11:51,044
"You're gonna give me a
heart attack one of these days."

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00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:57,802
We did not allow Carson to have a phone

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until eighth grade.

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00:11:59,302 --> 00:12:01,096
[keys clacking]

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00:12:01,179 --> 00:12:03,974
[Kristin] He said he just
absolutely needed a Snapchat

257
00:12:04,057 --> 00:12:07,937
because that's the way
the kids were connecting.

258
00:12:09,688 --> 00:12:12,191
He was 16.

259
00:12:12,274 --> 00:12:17,904
It was COVID, and I was
thrilled to have my boys with me.

260
00:12:19,572 --> 00:12:22,118
He was safe at home with us.

261
00:12:24,077 --> 00:12:26,746
It just couldn't have been
further from the truth.

262
00:12:29,166 --> 00:12:33,837
We immediately saw a change
when he was on Snapchat.

263
00:12:33,921 --> 00:12:36,173
I could hear him talking to friends,

264
00:12:36,256 --> 00:12:40,344
this focus on number of
likes and number of followers,

265
00:12:40,427 --> 00:12:43,014
and it... it was like a status symbol

266
00:12:43,096 --> 00:12:45,515
of how many friends you had.

267
00:12:47,268 --> 00:12:48,184
Merry Christmas.

268
00:12:48,269 --> 00:12:49,644
Merry Christmas.

269
00:12:49,729 --> 00:12:51,938
[Kristin] Push-up challenge
with Carson and Tom Bride.

270
00:12:52,023 --> 00:12:53,315
[Carson] Two, one.

271
00:12:53,399 --> 00:12:54,649
[together] One.

272
00:12:54,734 --> 00:12:55,567
[Kristin] Two.

273
00:12:55,650 --> 00:12:57,360
Happy birthday, Iñaki.

274
00:12:57,445 --> 00:12:59,363
I was assigned the letter K for kindness,

275
00:12:59,447 --> 00:13:01,698
because throughout
your stay here, you've...

276
00:13:01,782 --> 00:13:04,701
[Kristin] He was 16, and we just believed

277
00:13:04,784 --> 00:13:07,746
that it's a really good experience for kids

278
00:13:07,830 --> 00:13:10,331
when they turn 16 to
try to get a summer job.

279
00:13:11,458 --> 00:13:15,379
Carson really wanted to
learn how to make pizzas.

280
00:13:15,462 --> 00:13:17,798
He applied and he got the job,

281
00:13:17,881 --> 00:13:21,844
and we were just over-the-top thrilled.

282
00:13:22,845 --> 00:13:24,804
He took a picture of
himself in the uniform.

283
00:13:24,889 --> 00:13:26,014
[camera clicks]

284
00:13:26,097 --> 00:13:28,517
[Kristin] He said, "I'm
working at Papa Murphy's.

285
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,187
Come pick up a pizza on Wednesday."

286
00:13:34,981 --> 00:13:37,109
We had no idea he was experiencing

287
00:13:37,192 --> 00:13:40,446
online harassment for months before that.

288
00:13:40,528 --> 00:13:43,157
[tense music]

289
00:13:45,241 --> 00:13:46,284
[phone clicks]

290
00:13:47,370 --> 00:13:51,624
[electrical buzzing]

291
00:14:00,548 --> 00:14:04,095
[Kristin] The response through
the anonymous apps on Snapchat

292
00:14:04,177 --> 00:14:08,057
were nothing but repulsive.

293
00:14:12,394 --> 00:14:16,356
[phone buzzing]

294
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,735
[Kristin] He was tormented
by a group of his peers.

295
00:14:19,818 --> 00:14:20,985
[phone buzzes]

296
00:14:21,070 --> 00:14:23,697
[Kristin] Who hid their
cruelty behind anonymity.

297
00:14:24,948 --> 00:14:25,950
[phone buzzing]

298
00:14:26,951 --> 00:14:30,037
[electrical buzzing]

299
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:31,645
[dark music]

300
00:14:45,552 --> 00:14:48,596
-[melancholic music] -[wind whooshing]

301
00:14:48,681 --> 00:14:50,557
[Kristin] I had gotten up early.

302
00:14:51,808 --> 00:14:54,311
I looked and I saw that
his bedroom door was open

303
00:14:54,394 --> 00:14:56,105
and he wasn't in it.

304
00:14:56,187 --> 00:14:58,481
I thought nothing of it, because sometimes

305
00:14:58,566 --> 00:15:01,902
if he had a hard time sleeping,
he would sleep upstairs.

306
00:15:02,903 --> 00:15:04,989
I looked down at my phone

307
00:15:05,072 --> 00:15:08,241
and saw a text message from Carson.

308
00:15:11,037 --> 00:15:13,205
It said regarding a suicide.

309
00:15:16,583 --> 00:15:19,836
I jumped up in horror.

310
00:15:22,298 --> 00:15:24,091
And the garage door was open.

311
00:15:25,216 --> 00:15:26,927
There was a light showing.

312
00:15:30,472 --> 00:15:33,225
I ran down and he was hanging.

313
00:15:39,273 --> 00:15:43,068
[birds chirping]

314
00:15:49,033 --> 00:15:54,080
He will ha... would have been
20 in... it's hard to imagine,

315
00:15:54,163 --> 00:15:55,413
in November.

316
00:16:00,461 --> 00:16:02,587
[soft music]

317
00:16:02,672 --> 00:16:06,258
[Trisha] I remember
seeing headlines in 2021...

318
00:16:07,802 --> 00:16:12,764
but I did not meet Kristin
until a couple of years later.

319
00:16:14,265 --> 00:16:16,894
She is such a force.

320
00:16:19,020 --> 00:16:21,273
The story that you're telling
and the work that you're doing

321
00:16:21,356 --> 00:16:23,317
could not be more important.

322
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,068
Thank you, Tricia. That means a lot.

323
00:16:26,653 --> 00:16:28,405
Once I started doing more research,

324
00:16:28,489 --> 00:16:32,909
I realized how many other
kids had been cyberbullied

325
00:16:32,993 --> 00:16:37,664
and how quickly that can lead to suicide.

326
00:16:37,748 --> 00:16:39,875
The US Surgeon General
is issuing a new warning

327
00:16:39,958 --> 00:16:42,878
about social media and its impact on teens.

328
00:16:42,961 --> 00:16:45,630
And now America's top
doctor wants warning labels

329
00:16:45,715 --> 00:16:47,048
on those social media platforms.

330
00:16:47,133 --> 00:16:48,884
Why now for this advisory?

331
00:16:48,967 --> 00:16:51,928
We're issuing this
advisory to sound the alarm.

332
00:16:52,013 --> 00:16:53,639
[clapperboard clacks]

333
00:16:53,722 --> 00:16:55,264
There's no question that
we are living in the middle

334
00:16:55,307 --> 00:16:58,686
of a youth mental health
crisis that has become global.

335
00:16:58,769 --> 00:17:00,229
Uh, right now in the United States,

336
00:17:00,312 --> 00:17:03,190
if you had a high school with 1,000 kids,

337
00:17:03,274 --> 00:17:07,778
450 of those kids are saying
that they feel persistently sad

338
00:17:07,862 --> 00:17:08,819
or hopeless,

339
00:17:08,903 --> 00:17:11,824
200 have considered taking their own life,

340
00:17:11,906 --> 00:17:14,617
and 100 of those kids
have actually attempted

341
00:17:14,701 --> 00:17:15,786
to take their life.

342
00:17:16,746 --> 00:17:20,499
That is an extraordinary
indictment of the world

343
00:17:20,583 --> 00:17:21,665
that we are living in,

344
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:24,795
of the environment and
culture that we have created.

345
00:17:24,877 --> 00:17:28,214
We saw in the data that
kids who were on social media

346
00:17:28,298 --> 00:17:30,175
for three and a half hours or more per day

347
00:17:30,259 --> 00:17:34,387
face double the risk of anxiety
and depression symptoms.

348
00:17:34,471 --> 00:17:36,515
At that time, the average
amount of time adolescents

349
00:17:36,598 --> 00:17:40,519
were spending on social media
was almost five hours per day.

350
00:17:40,603 --> 00:17:43,314
We have not had enough
of a conversation about that

351
00:17:43,396 --> 00:17:44,522
as a society.

352
00:17:44,606 --> 00:17:46,608
I don't think that companies,
technology companies,

353
00:17:46,692 --> 00:17:48,693
have done enough to protect our kids.

354
00:17:48,778 --> 00:17:52,073
And I also think policymakers
have fallen down on the job

355
00:17:52,155 --> 00:17:54,700
when it comes to protections that we need

356
00:17:54,784 --> 00:17:56,326
to make sure our kids are okay.

357
00:17:57,411 --> 00:17:59,246
[woman on video] Um,
Kristin, do you wanna start out?

358
00:17:59,329 --> 00:18:02,791
Sure. Um, my name is Kristin Bride.

359
00:18:02,875 --> 00:18:08,713
And I lost my son, Carson,
three years ago to suicide.

360
00:18:08,798 --> 00:18:09,882
Whether it's cyberbullying,

361
00:18:09,964 --> 00:18:11,467
whether it's sexual exploitation,

362
00:18:11,549 --> 00:18:12,884
whether it's compulsive use,

363
00:18:12,968 --> 00:18:15,471
whether it's exposure to self-harm content,

364
00:18:15,554 --> 00:18:16,888
eating disorder content,

365
00:18:16,971 --> 00:18:18,807
it's all traced to the business model,

366
00:18:18,891 --> 00:18:22,228
where these companies are
trying to keep our kids online

367
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:25,397
as long as possible by any means necessary.

368
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,066
[soft music]

369
00:18:27,148 --> 00:18:29,067
[Kristin] Carson had been cyberbullied

370
00:18:29,151 --> 00:18:32,738
leading up to this suicide over YOLO.

371
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:35,115
[mouse clicks]

372
00:18:35,199 --> 00:18:36,724
[dramatic pensive music]

373
00:18:45,209 --> 00:18:48,336
[Kristin] Then we started
to look at his phone,

374
00:18:48,421 --> 00:18:51,382
which revealed hundreds
of sadistic messages

375
00:18:51,464 --> 00:18:53,467
from a few of his peers.

376
00:18:54,634 --> 00:18:57,262
He was reaching out to have conversations

377
00:18:57,346 --> 00:19:00,724
with people because he was lonely,

378
00:19:00,807 --> 00:19:04,185
and he was getting just garbage back.

379
00:19:05,438 --> 00:19:07,397
They looked at their policies and they said

380
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,400
they monitored for cyberbullying

381
00:19:09,482 --> 00:19:11,652
and that they would reveal the identities

382
00:19:11,736 --> 00:19:13,028
of those who do so.

383
00:19:13,112 --> 00:19:14,070
[keyboard keys clacking]

384
00:19:14,154 --> 00:19:16,323
[Kristin] I reached out four times,

385
00:19:16,406 --> 00:19:18,701
told them what happened to my son,

386
00:19:18,784 --> 00:19:22,997
and that I needed to
know who did this to my son,

387
00:19:23,079 --> 00:19:25,374
and they need to be banned from the app

388
00:19:25,458 --> 00:19:28,419
so they didn't do it to somebody else.

389
00:19:28,501 --> 00:19:29,586
[mouse clicks]

390
00:19:31,630 --> 00:19:33,340
[Kristin] And never heard anything back.

391
00:19:34,592 --> 00:19:35,800
I was ignored.

392
00:19:38,011 --> 00:19:42,057
[car honking, vehicles whooshing]

393
00:19:44,934 --> 00:19:46,686
[Kristin] You know, my kid is dead.

394
00:19:48,064 --> 00:19:51,483
How am I going to continue living

395
00:19:51,567 --> 00:19:53,611
when there's no accountability?

396
00:19:55,070 --> 00:19:56,696
[elevator bell dings]

397
00:19:59,616 --> 00:20:00,492
[Kristin] Hi, Eric.

398
00:20:00,576 --> 00:20:01,493
So nice to meet you.

399
00:20:01,576 --> 00:20:03,412
I'm sorry it's under these circumstances.

400
00:20:04,121 --> 00:20:05,789
Take a seat.

401
00:20:05,873 --> 00:20:08,667
Getting out of bed
every day is a challenge.

402
00:20:08,750 --> 00:20:11,295
It is empty in our house.

403
00:20:11,378 --> 00:20:15,298
Carson was our bright
light, he was our funny guy,

404
00:20:15,383 --> 00:20:19,345
and we should've been
looking at colleges for Carson.

405
00:20:19,428 --> 00:20:22,431
And all that is gone.

406
00:20:22,515 --> 00:20:24,557
I believe we have a misrepresentation claim

407
00:20:24,642 --> 00:20:31,356
because YOLO misrepresented
that they would reveal and ban

408
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:36,695
anonymous users for bullying,
for inappropriate conduct,

409
00:20:36,778 --> 00:20:39,865
and they were not truthful
with Carson, your family,

410
00:20:39,949 --> 00:20:41,032
and the rest of the world.

411
00:20:41,116 --> 00:20:43,786
And I believe we really
have the ability here

412
00:20:43,868 --> 00:20:47,580
to do something historic,
to change precedent,

413
00:20:47,664 --> 00:20:48,958
uh, to change policy.

414
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,292
A... a... and that's what we really want.

415
00:20:51,376 --> 00:20:53,211
We want to create change.

416
00:20:54,296 --> 00:20:56,173
[Eric Baum] After Kristin came to see us,

417
00:20:56,257 --> 00:20:59,884
we brought a class action
lawsuit against Snapchat,

418
00:20:59,969 --> 00:21:01,761
YOLO, and LMK.

419
00:21:04,140 --> 00:21:08,978
Within days, Snapchat banned
YOLO and LMK from the platform.

420
00:21:10,270 --> 00:21:12,897
But then our case was dismissed

421
00:21:12,981 --> 00:21:15,734
in the Central District of California

422
00:21:15,817 --> 00:21:18,237
based upon Section 230.

423
00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:22,490
These platforms were
being insulated from liability.

424
00:21:22,575 --> 00:21:25,411
From there, we filed our appeal.

425
00:21:26,996 --> 00:21:30,458
[Kristin] At that point, I
was ready to go to battle.

426
00:21:30,540 --> 00:21:34,461
An important story for parents
and kids now internationally,

427
00:21:34,545 --> 00:21:35,755
[Jake] Kristin Bride,

428
00:21:35,837 --> 00:21:37,381
she's one of the parents
who went to Capitol Hill today

429
00:21:37,423 --> 00:21:39,467
to urge lawmakers to try to
hold social media companies

430
00:21:39,549 --> 00:21:40,634
accountable.

431
00:21:40,718 --> 00:21:43,511
[Kristin] I am testifying
here today to bring a face

432
00:21:43,596 --> 00:21:46,307
to the harms occurring every day

433
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:48,517
resulting from the unchecked power

434
00:21:48,601 --> 00:21:50,644
of the social media industry.

435
00:21:50,728 --> 00:21:54,565
Our complaint against YOLO
and LMK for product liability

436
00:21:54,647 --> 00:21:58,443
design defects was dismissed
in the Central District Court

437
00:21:58,527 --> 00:22:04,240
of California last month,
citing Section 230 immunity.

438
00:22:04,325 --> 00:22:06,660
I... I think it is just absolutely vital

439
00:22:06,743 --> 00:22:10,288
that we change the law to allow
suits like yours to go forward.

440
00:22:10,373 --> 00:22:11,874
There's just no rules of the road

441
00:22:11,957 --> 00:22:14,210
because, uh, these social media companies

442
00:22:14,292 --> 00:22:17,380
have stopped everything
in their tracks that we have,

443
00:22:17,462 --> 00:22:19,089
uh, tried to do.

444
00:22:19,173 --> 00:22:21,384
To me, it seems like an
enormous amount of progress

445
00:22:21,467 --> 00:22:24,970
would be made if we
would repeal Section 230.

446
00:22:25,054 --> 00:22:27,890
[tense music]

447
00:22:27,972 --> 00:22:32,560
[Laura] Section 230 basically
says that online service providers

448
00:22:32,644 --> 00:22:36,190
cannot be held liable for
what third parties say and do

449
00:22:36,272 --> 00:22:37,482
on their platform.

450
00:22:37,566 --> 00:22:40,443
And really, social media
companies have sort of gotten

451
00:22:40,528 --> 00:22:42,238
the benefit of the doubt on that.

452
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,950
This law is truly revolutionary legislation

453
00:22:46,032 --> 00:22:48,493
that will bring the future to our doorstep.

454
00:22:48,576 --> 00:22:50,913
Section 230 of the
Communications Decency Act

455
00:22:50,996 --> 00:22:55,334
was in 1996 when the
internet was first being born.

456
00:22:55,417 --> 00:22:57,051
- [notification chimes] -
[AI voiceover] Welcome.

457
00:22:57,127 --> 00:22:58,662
[Tristan] And we thought
that the internet was

458
00:22:58,712 --> 00:23:00,213
a bulletin board.

459
00:23:00,297 --> 00:23:02,590
You had Yahoo website directories

460
00:23:02,674 --> 00:23:05,344
where you would have to actively go there

461
00:23:05,428 --> 00:23:08,013
and then click on exactly
what you wanted to see.

462
00:23:08,096 --> 00:23:09,140
[cat meows]

463
00:23:10,307 --> 00:23:11,683
[messages ping]

464
00:23:11,767 --> 00:23:12,727
[keyboard keys clicking]

465
00:23:12,809 --> 00:23:13,769
[message ping]

466
00:23:13,853 --> 00:23:15,895
[Tristan] We didn't have persuasive design.

467
00:23:15,980 --> 00:23:17,147
[AI voiceover] Goodbye.

468
00:23:17,230 --> 00:23:19,525
[Tristan] We didn't have
recommended content.

469
00:23:19,607 --> 00:23:23,069
Today, all of the systems
that you interact with

470
00:23:23,153 --> 00:23:25,239
are calculating the perfect next thing

471
00:23:25,321 --> 00:23:26,531
to keep you scrolling

472
00:23:26,615 --> 00:23:28,742
as frequently as possible
and as long as possible.

473
00:23:29,701 --> 00:23:30,702
[static crackles]

474
00:23:30,786 --> 00:23:32,954
I mean, really, it's that this handful

475
00:23:33,038 --> 00:23:37,000
of technology companies
are holding and rewiring

476
00:23:37,084 --> 00:23:40,046
the consciousness of
humanity in their designs.

477
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:41,913
When they make a design choice,

478
00:23:41,963 --> 00:23:44,674
they're rewiring which
way information flows,

479
00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:46,426
which relationships we spend time with,

480
00:23:46,509 --> 00:23:48,887
the way our attention and our brains work.

481
00:23:48,971 --> 00:23:50,431
That is a totally different kind of power,

482
00:23:50,513 --> 00:23:53,392
and we haven't updated the laws since then.

483
00:23:53,476 --> 00:23:56,979
[Laura] You're looking at almost
30 years of no updated laws,

484
00:23:57,063 --> 00:24:00,273
no reassessment of,
uh, "Is 230 appropriate?"

485
00:24:01,067 --> 00:24:04,612
I was born in 2000, I'm 24 today,

486
00:24:04,694 --> 00:24:07,073
and quite literally, I have not seen

487
00:24:07,155 --> 00:24:09,366
any internet safety
legislation in my lifetime.

488
00:24:10,201 --> 00:24:12,036
Yeah, one of the things
that's hard about this problem

489
00:24:12,118 --> 00:24:14,704
is that the social media
companies don't make available

490
00:24:14,788 --> 00:24:17,375
to psychologists all of
the research that they have

491
00:24:17,458 --> 00:24:19,626
about the usage patterns of these products,

492
00:24:19,710 --> 00:24:22,462
um, because they lock it up,
and usually they only make it

493
00:24:22,546 --> 00:24:26,133
available to researchers who
will say there's not a problem.

494
00:24:26,217 --> 00:24:29,345
And... and so it almost is sort
of like we woke up one day,

495
00:24:29,428 --> 00:24:30,471
um, and more specifically,

496
00:24:30,554 --> 00:24:32,640
I think you had the
Facebook whistleblower say,

497
00:24:32,722 --> 00:24:35,017
"Hey, I need to tell you what's happening

498
00:24:35,101 --> 00:24:36,268
behind the curtain."

499
00:24:38,729 --> 00:24:40,189
[clears throat]

500
00:24:40,271 --> 00:24:42,231
[interviewer] Frances, thanks so
much for being here, uh, today...

501
00:24:42,273 --> 00:24:43,901
Happy to be here.

502
00:24:43,983 --> 00:24:45,903
[interviewer] Um, let's jump right in.

503
00:24:45,986 --> 00:24:48,948
I have worked on multiple
algorithmic products.

504
00:24:49,030 --> 00:24:50,825
So I worked on search quality at Google.

505
00:24:50,907 --> 00:24:52,910
It's like how do we pick
out the search results.

506
00:24:52,992 --> 00:24:55,538
I worked on feed ranking at Pinterest,

507
00:24:55,621 --> 00:24:58,624
so it's like what pins should
we show you in what order.

508
00:24:58,708 --> 00:25:01,961
So I came into Facebook
to see if I could improve

509
00:25:02,044 --> 00:25:05,338
the safety of the platform
without focusing on content.

510
00:25:05,423 --> 00:25:07,883
[indistinct chatter]

511
00:25:07,967 --> 00:25:09,134
[Frances] After a little while there,

512
00:25:09,175 --> 00:25:12,137
I started to flag some
alarming internal research.

513
00:25:12,221 --> 00:25:13,020
[keyboard keys clacking]

514
00:25:13,096 --> 00:25:13,972
[soft music]

515
00:25:14,056 --> 00:25:15,098
[Frances] Facebook had noticed some

516
00:25:15,141 --> 00:25:16,392
negative mental health outcomes

517
00:25:16,474 --> 00:25:18,477
were coming back from internal studies.

518
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,813
[electrical buzzing]

519
00:25:20,895 --> 00:25:22,022
[Frances] And at the same time,

520
00:25:22,105 --> 00:25:24,942
I was also seeing these
negative patterns globally

521
00:25:25,026 --> 00:25:26,736
tied to misinformation.

522
00:25:28,362 --> 00:25:30,448
Third-party fact-checking
budget is allocated

523
00:25:30,530 --> 00:25:34,035
based on fear of regulation,
not based on need.

524
00:25:34,117 --> 00:25:36,996
Facebook has willingly
let the temperature rise

525
00:25:37,078 --> 00:25:38,497
in some of the most fragile places on Earth

526
00:25:38,538 --> 00:25:39,707
until people are dying.

527
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,671
I'm laying out these problems and he goes,

528
00:25:45,755 --> 00:25:47,506
"These are all bad problems to work on.

529
00:25:48,632 --> 00:25:49,842
They're not measurable."

530
00:25:51,384 --> 00:25:54,721
[globe whirring]

531
00:25:54,805 --> 00:25:57,474
It was a symptom that
Facebook had given up on trying

532
00:25:57,557 --> 00:26:01,228
to actually solve these massive
problems that it had caused

533
00:26:01,311 --> 00:26:02,188
around the world.

534
00:26:02,270 --> 00:26:05,273
They dissolved the civic integrity team,

535
00:26:05,357 --> 00:26:09,028
and when they did that, I
knew that they had taken one of

536
00:26:09,111 --> 00:26:12,030
the most important things
off the change checklist, right?

537
00:26:12,114 --> 00:26:15,576
Facebook was not gonna be
able to heal itself from within.

538
00:26:15,659 --> 00:26:18,746
That was the moment where I
knew I was going to have to act.

539
00:26:18,828 --> 00:26:21,248
Her name is Frances Haugen.

540
00:26:21,332 --> 00:26:22,249
Frances Haugen.

541
00:26:22,333 --> 00:26:24,501
Frances Haugen, a Facebook whistleblower.

542
00:26:24,585 --> 00:26:26,461
Let's start with the question of why.

543
00:26:26,545 --> 00:26:29,382
Imagine you know what's
going on inside of Facebook,

544
00:26:29,464 --> 00:26:31,424
and you know no one on the outside knows.

545
00:26:31,509 --> 00:26:33,844
There was one bite at the apple.

546
00:26:33,928 --> 00:26:37,390
I understood that after
this incident happened,

547
00:26:37,472 --> 00:26:39,767
they would change how
access to information worked.

548
00:26:40,643 --> 00:26:41,602
[camera clicking]

549
00:26:41,685 --> 00:26:42,952
[Frances] Every single day, I was just

550
00:26:43,019 --> 00:26:46,440
taking picture after picture
after picture of the screen.

551
00:26:46,523 --> 00:26:50,318
[Scott] She secretly copied
tens of thousands of pages

552
00:26:50,403 --> 00:26:52,488
of Facebook internal research.

553
00:26:53,405 --> 00:26:55,574
[Frances] During my time
at Facebook, I came to realize

554
00:26:55,657 --> 00:26:57,451
a devastating truth.

555
00:26:57,535 --> 00:27:00,287
Almost no one outside of
Facebook knows what happens

556
00:27:00,371 --> 00:27:01,830
inside of Facebook.

557
00:27:04,709 --> 00:27:07,211
The company intentionally
hides vital information

558
00:27:07,294 --> 00:27:09,505
from the public

559
00:27:09,587 --> 00:27:11,132
about what its own research reveals

560
00:27:11,214 --> 00:27:12,508
about the safety of children.

561
00:27:17,887 --> 00:27:19,347
One of the studies that you found

562
00:27:19,432 --> 00:27:23,227
talks about how Instagram
harms teenage girls.

563
00:27:25,270 --> 00:27:26,896
[data processing]

564
00:27:26,980 --> 00:27:32,153
[Scott] 13.5% say Instagram
makes thoughts of suicide worse.

565
00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:38,325
17% say Instagram makes
eating disorders worse.

566
00:27:41,537 --> 00:27:45,249
And what's super tragic is
Facebook's own research says

567
00:27:45,332 --> 00:27:47,084
they end up in this feedback cycle

568
00:27:47,167 --> 00:27:49,420
where they hate their
bodies more and more...

569
00:27:51,380 --> 00:27:52,882
they get more and more depressed...

570
00:27:54,258 --> 00:27:56,426
and it actually makes
them use the app more.

571
00:28:00,096 --> 00:28:01,057
[mouse clicks]

572
00:28:01,140 --> 00:28:04,559
[keyboard keys clacking]

573
00:28:04,643 --> 00:28:05,269
[dramatic music]

574
00:28:19,366 --> 00:28:23,287
[keyboard keys clacking]

575
00:28:49,771 --> 00:28:53,233
A company with such frightening
influence over so many people,

576
00:28:53,317 --> 00:28:55,861
over their deepest thoughts,
feelings, and behavior

577
00:28:55,944 --> 00:28:58,029
needs real oversight.

578
00:28:58,114 --> 00:29:01,325
I came forward at great personal risk

579
00:29:01,409 --> 00:29:03,993
because I believe we
still have time to act...

580
00:29:05,078 --> 00:29:06,247
but we must act now.

581
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,834
That and tobacco litigation,
that was the turning point.

582
00:29:10,584 --> 00:29:12,127
[voiceover artist] More
doctors smoke Camels

583
00:29:12,211 --> 00:29:14,130
than any other cigarette.

584
00:29:14,212 --> 00:29:16,339
You know, we have something
that seems innocuous,

585
00:29:16,423 --> 00:29:19,300
that... that everybody's
doing, that feels okay...

586
00:29:20,428 --> 00:29:22,430
and there's sort of this
set of warning signs.

587
00:29:23,513 --> 00:29:25,266
Then we get the 60 Minutes interview.

588
00:29:25,974 --> 00:29:28,644
We have the whistleblowers
who are telling us the truth.

589
00:29:28,728 --> 00:29:30,895
We have the evidence of the problem.

590
00:29:30,980 --> 00:29:32,114
[Laura] You have a memo that shows

591
00:29:32,189 --> 00:29:33,523
these tobacco companies knew

592
00:29:33,606 --> 00:29:35,692
that... that their products
were causing cancer.

593
00:29:35,776 --> 00:29:39,029
In late 2021, we have
a very brave individual

594
00:29:39,113 --> 00:29:40,364
who gave us 2,000 of those memos.

595
00:29:40,448 --> 00:29:41,365
[keyboard keys clicking]

596
00:29:41,449 --> 00:29:42,407
[mouse clicks]

597
00:29:43,576 --> 00:29:45,577
[Laura] But as a society, what's so wild

598
00:29:45,661 --> 00:29:48,913
is that we haven't really
taken those documents

599
00:29:48,998 --> 00:29:52,500
and looked at them as a
society and said, "Wait a sec!

600
00:29:52,585 --> 00:29:53,752
Wait a sec!"

601
00:29:56,047 --> 00:29:58,173
[Tristan] Because,
ironically, of social media,

602
00:29:58,257 --> 00:30:01,509
our mind is constantly just
thrown to the next thing.

603
00:30:02,303 --> 00:30:04,721
Like, boom, here's this
horrible life-changing thing

604
00:30:04,805 --> 00:30:06,723
that I should really pay attention to,

605
00:30:06,807 --> 00:30:08,768
but then I swipe, and then
there's a panda that's dancing,

606
00:30:08,851 --> 00:30:10,478
and I just forget about it.

607
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,146
And that is part of the problem
that we have to deal with.

608
00:30:16,858 --> 00:30:19,487
Our ability as a society
to focus our attention

609
00:30:19,569 --> 00:30:22,405
on anything and be in
a dedicated way saying,

610
00:30:22,490 --> 00:30:23,615
"How do we fix it?"

611
00:30:23,699 --> 00:30:26,660
That capability is being
disrupted by social media.

612
00:30:27,661 --> 00:30:29,204
You know, this can't be a system

613
00:30:29,288 --> 00:30:32,875
where the powerful get to grade
their own homework anymore.

614
00:30:32,958 --> 00:30:35,670
And I really want us to start
talking about what would

615
00:30:35,752 --> 00:30:38,213
these products look
like if we designed them

616
00:30:38,297 --> 00:30:40,090
to respect autonomy and dignity.

617
00:30:40,173 --> 00:30:41,549
[plane whooshing]

618
00:30:47,347 --> 00:30:50,643
Doing tech advocacy
work, it's very US-centric.

619
00:30:50,726 --> 00:30:53,061
Um, and the truth is,
building a better internet

620
00:30:53,144 --> 00:30:54,563
means building a better digital world

621
00:30:54,646 --> 00:30:55,940
for every digital citizen.

622
00:30:56,022 --> 00:30:56,981
[laughs]

623
00:31:00,528 --> 00:31:03,948
[Trisha] I am going to to
speak with young people

624
00:31:04,030 --> 00:31:06,866
who are really passionate
about rethinking the norms

625
00:31:06,951 --> 00:31:09,412
that govern our interactions
online and offline.

626
00:31:11,538 --> 00:31:14,583
[plane whirring]

627
00:31:14,666 --> 00:31:15,960
- [Trisha] Trisha.
- [man 1] [indistinct speech]

628
00:31:16,001 --> 00:31:17,002
[Trisha] Nice to meet you.

629
00:31:17,127 --> 00:31:20,172
So... I can speak a little
Spanish. But not super well.

630
00:31:20,588 --> 00:31:21,715
[motorbike whirring]

631
00:31:23,550 --> 00:31:28,263
What is happening
behind our cellular devices?

632
00:31:29,848 --> 00:31:31,976
We can communicate more rapidly.

633
00:31:33,477 --> 00:31:36,521
However there are other ways this space

634
00:31:36,605 --> 00:31:39,733
of cell phones can transform
into a place of harm...

635
00:31:40,608 --> 00:31:43,612
And so... with that, thanks
so much for being here.

636
00:31:43,695 --> 00:31:46,031
We have Trisha here, are you ready?

637
00:31:46,115 --> 00:31:46,906
[audience clapping]

638
00:31:46,990 --> 00:31:48,157
- [host 2] Welcome.
- [Trisha] Thank you so much.

639
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,000
- [host 2] Welcome here.
- [Trisha] Thank you so much.

640
00:31:51,162 --> 00:31:52,954
As was said, my name is Trisha Prabhu,

641
00:31:53,038 --> 00:31:55,540
and I'm the founder and CEO of ReThink,

642
00:31:55,624 --> 00:31:58,586
a global movement with a
mission of tackling cyberbullying

643
00:31:58,669 --> 00:32:01,297
and redefining internet
culture to be more positive.

644
00:32:01,380 --> 00:32:04,342
According to UNICEF, 33%, that's a third

645
00:32:04,424 --> 00:32:06,594
of the world's children,
have been cyberbullied.

646
00:32:06,676 --> 00:32:09,055
They face some sort of online violence.

647
00:32:09,137 --> 00:32:12,141
Um, in the US, the number
is closer to one in two.

648
00:32:12,223 --> 00:32:15,435
You know, why is it that youth
are so willing to be vicious

649
00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:17,270
from behind a screen?

650
00:32:17,355 --> 00:32:19,440
And so I really wanted
to shift the paradigm

651
00:32:19,522 --> 00:32:23,193
and focus on the cyberbully,
on the person sending

652
00:32:23,277 --> 00:32:24,612
the content.

653
00:32:24,694 --> 00:32:26,864
What's motivating them?

654
00:32:26,946 --> 00:32:30,201
They're struggling in some
way, so their response is to put

655
00:32:30,284 --> 00:32:34,413
someone else down to feel
better about themselves.

656
00:32:34,497 --> 00:32:36,539
Trisha, tell us about your app.

657
00:32:36,624 --> 00:32:38,959
So, um, ReThink is
actually the world's first

658
00:32:39,042 --> 00:32:42,587
proactive solution to stop
cyberbullying before it happens.

659
00:32:42,672 --> 00:32:45,924
It is so much easier to
say something hurtful online

660
00:32:46,008 --> 00:32:47,468
than it is in person

661
00:32:47,550 --> 00:32:50,680
because the digital world
is completely frictionless.

662
00:32:50,762 --> 00:32:53,516
[upbeat music]

663
00:32:53,598 --> 00:32:56,102
You don't have to see the
person that you're talking to.

664
00:32:56,977 --> 00:32:58,979
You don't have to hear your own voice

665
00:32:59,063 --> 00:33:01,606
delivering content to someone else.

666
00:33:01,691 --> 00:33:05,443
It just seemingly disappears
into this ephemeral space.

667
00:33:05,528 --> 00:33:09,030
[keys clicking, notifications chiming]

668
00:33:09,115 --> 00:33:10,950
[Trisha] You don't have
to see their reaction.

669
00:33:13,411 --> 00:33:14,619
[phone buzzes]

670
00:33:14,703 --> 00:33:15,829
[camera clicks]

671
00:33:15,913 --> 00:33:17,455
In the digital world, psychologically,

672
00:33:17,539 --> 00:33:20,000
it's really easy to skirt
that... that ownership,

673
00:33:20,084 --> 00:33:22,420
that responsibility for your words.

674
00:33:22,502 --> 00:33:24,337
That's when I had my aha moment.

675
00:33:24,422 --> 00:33:26,965
I thought, "Okay, so we
know that young people"

676
00:33:27,048 --> 00:33:28,592
can't really think through the consequences

677
00:33:28,675 --> 00:33:29,676
of their decisions.

678
00:33:29,759 --> 00:33:31,095
We know they're already in this environment

679
00:33:31,136 --> 00:33:32,555
where it's really hard to understand

680
00:33:32,637 --> 00:33:34,056
how other people are feeling.

681
00:33:34,140 --> 00:33:36,767
What if I could get
them to pause and think?

682
00:33:37,476 --> 00:33:39,769
I could get them to have
that moment of reflection

683
00:33:39,854 --> 00:33:41,896
"that they're currently missing?"

684
00:33:41,980 --> 00:33:44,650
And that is when the
ReThink concept was born.

685
00:33:44,733 --> 00:33:47,569
Let's just say I try to post something,

686
00:33:47,653 --> 00:33:50,114
like, "You are so ugly."

687
00:33:50,196 --> 00:33:53,159
ReThink is able to detect
that that message is offensive

688
00:33:53,241 --> 00:33:54,617
and then it alerts the adolescent.

689
00:33:54,701 --> 00:33:57,328
Like, "Whoa, hold on, are you really sure

690
00:33:57,413 --> 00:33:58,830
you wanna post this message?"

691
00:33:58,913 --> 00:34:01,000
So, we actually conducted a 1,500 trial

692
00:34:01,083 --> 00:34:02,209
Google acclaimed study.

693
00:34:02,292 --> 00:34:04,961
So I went ahead and
compared the young people

694
00:34:05,046 --> 00:34:07,298
who received the ReThink alert
to the young people who didn't,

695
00:34:07,381 --> 00:34:10,175
their behavior, their
willingness to say these things.

696
00:34:10,259 --> 00:34:11,760
And what did I find?

697
00:34:11,844 --> 00:34:15,556
But 93% of the time, youth aged 13 to 18

698
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:18,851
that got that chance to
rethink changed their mind.

699
00:34:18,934 --> 00:34:21,228
And when kids get
this alert, like, "Hold on,

700
00:34:21,311 --> 00:34:22,480
stop for a second,"

701
00:34:22,563 --> 00:34:24,940
they actually change their
mind and decide not to post

702
00:34:25,023 --> 00:34:26,233
an offensive message on social media.

703
00:34:26,275 --> 00:34:27,985
Really? Really?

704
00:34:28,068 --> 00:34:29,945
I know, it's incredible. I was stunned.

705
00:34:30,027 --> 00:34:33,074
I think we know the difference
between right and wrong.

706
00:34:33,157 --> 00:34:35,159
I think it's just really easy to forget.

707
00:34:35,242 --> 00:34:36,202
[laughs]

708
00:34:36,284 --> 00:34:37,827
Especially when you're looking at a device.

709
00:34:37,911 --> 00:34:39,538
And it turns out reminding young people

710
00:34:39,621 --> 00:34:42,248
about their humanity
is a really powerful way

711
00:34:42,333 --> 00:34:44,918
to rethink hate before any damage is done.

712
00:34:45,001 --> 00:34:50,675
[audience applauding]

713
00:34:50,757 --> 00:34:52,425
I see a question right here in front.

714
00:34:52,635 --> 00:34:53,469
I would love to know...

715
00:34:53,552 --> 00:34:57,764
Why doesn't social media apply

716
00:34:57,847 --> 00:34:59,641
that kind of technology or tools

717
00:34:59,724 --> 00:35:02,644
to prevent cyberbullying?
For example, - [Trisha] Hmm.

718
00:35:02,728 --> 00:35:06,690
Why Meta or X doesn't apply
those kind of tools? [Trisha laughing]

719
00:35:06,898 --> 00:35:08,067
[Trisha] Ah, such a good question.

720
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:09,610
I'm so glad you asked.

721
00:35:09,693 --> 00:35:13,614
Um, so it's a really complicated answer,

722
00:35:13,697 --> 00:35:15,282
but I'll try and make it very simple.

723
00:35:15,365 --> 00:35:16,992
Pretty much from the inception of these

724
00:35:17,076 --> 00:35:19,244
social media companies' creation,

725
00:35:19,327 --> 00:35:21,871
negative toxic content has been at the core

726
00:35:21,956 --> 00:35:23,581
of their business model, right?

727
00:35:23,666 --> 00:35:26,585
When there is awful content
in your social media feed,

728
00:35:26,668 --> 00:35:27,545
what happens?

729
00:35:27,628 --> 00:35:29,005
You tend to look at it, right?

730
00:35:29,088 --> 00:35:30,797
Even if you're horrified,
you're so horrified

731
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,550
you can't take your eyes off of it,

732
00:35:32,632 --> 00:35:35,177
and your eyeballs make
money for them, right?

733
00:35:35,260 --> 00:35:37,722
So a combination, I think,
of really poor leadership

734
00:35:37,804 --> 00:35:40,099
at these companies, and then even then,

735
00:35:40,181 --> 00:35:42,184
if you have good
leadership, still an underlying

736
00:35:42,268 --> 00:35:43,561
profit motive

737
00:35:43,643 --> 00:35:47,398
has led to platforms that just
fundamentally are not safe.

738
00:35:47,481 --> 00:35:49,817
And I... I think it's hard
to imagine how they can be

739
00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:51,777
unless we design differently, right?

740
00:35:51,860 --> 00:35:54,572
Which is what I was
trying to do, or re-legislate.

741
00:35:54,655 --> 00:35:56,407
And certainly, there's been big, big, big

742
00:35:56,489 --> 00:35:58,074
pushes for policy in the United States,

743
00:35:58,159 --> 00:35:59,201
policy change.

744
00:36:11,797 --> 00:36:13,048
[Kristin] This has been a completely

745
00:36:13,132 --> 00:36:17,344
unchecked industry for three decades,

746
00:36:17,427 --> 00:36:18,679
and this is where we are.

747
00:36:18,762 --> 00:36:19,804
We...

748
00:36:19,889 --> 00:36:23,059
These companies feel like
they can create products

749
00:36:23,141 --> 00:36:26,019
that are intentionally harming our kids,

750
00:36:26,103 --> 00:36:28,063
and they don't have to worry about it.

751
00:36:28,146 --> 00:36:29,190
This is Alexander.

752
00:36:29,273 --> 00:36:31,942
Um, coincidentally, we
lost Alex the same day

753
00:36:32,025 --> 00:36:33,527
Kristin lost Carson,

754
00:36:33,610 --> 00:36:36,614
uh, which always blows my
mind every time I say it out loud.

755
00:36:36,697 --> 00:36:39,742
Like, how could two kids
die from the same platform,

756
00:36:39,824 --> 00:36:41,159
different harms, on the same day?

757
00:36:41,242 --> 00:36:42,119
-[Kristin] Yeah. -It just...

758
00:36:42,161 --> 00:36:43,788
It just seems so outrageous to me.

759
00:36:43,871 --> 00:36:46,916
Uh, Alex was linked with
a drug dealer on Snapchat,

760
00:36:46,998 --> 00:36:49,376
and this drug dealer offered him oxycodone.

761
00:36:49,460 --> 00:36:51,878
What Alex thought was
oxycodone turned out to be fentanyl

762
00:36:51,961 --> 00:36:54,297
and, um, unfortunately, Alex lost his life.

763
00:36:54,382 --> 00:36:56,132
I found him in his room the next morning.

764
00:36:56,217 --> 00:36:58,677
At least for us, we thought that big tech

765
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,512
and the people that put this together

766
00:37:00,596 --> 00:37:02,764
would put these safeguards in place.

767
00:37:02,847 --> 00:37:04,266
We... we were naive.

768
00:37:04,349 --> 00:37:06,976
We thought it was
just like planes and cars.

769
00:37:07,061 --> 00:37:08,646
Safety measures was put in.

770
00:37:09,521 --> 00:37:12,108
It's horrible, and it's great
that the Senate is finally...

771
00:37:12,190 --> 00:37:13,358
-Yes. -You know, it's taking a step.

772
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,152
Your willingness to... to
let people hear those stories

773
00:37:16,237 --> 00:37:17,862
and turn it into something for good

774
00:37:17,947 --> 00:37:19,030
so it doesn't happen...

775
00:37:19,114 --> 00:37:19,949
-Yeah. -Anymore.

776
00:37:20,032 --> 00:37:21,617
It's incredible.

777
00:37:21,701 --> 00:37:25,371
[calm music]

778
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,382
[Deb] She loved gymnastics, playing guitar.

779
00:37:38,092 --> 00:37:41,929
Um, she loved pushing the
line a little bit, you know?

780
00:37:42,012 --> 00:37:45,641
Um, wonderful daughter. We were very close.

781
00:37:46,766 --> 00:37:48,728
[Christine] Literally born happy.

782
00:37:48,811 --> 00:37:51,480
Just a joyful light, um, and a...

783
00:37:51,563 --> 00:37:53,690
And a great communicative teen.

784
00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:56,402
[Cheryl] She was a travel hockey player.

785
00:37:56,485 --> 00:37:58,945
She was a goalie. She was fearless.

786
00:37:59,030 --> 00:38:01,824
Um, McKenna was like any other 16-year-old,

787
00:38:01,907 --> 00:38:04,492
using social media to
communicate with her friends,

788
00:38:04,577 --> 00:38:06,954
and it... it backfired.

789
00:38:08,539 --> 00:38:13,626
She was damaged and
was viciously cyber bullied.

790
00:38:13,710 --> 00:38:15,588
Death wishing, malicious.

791
00:38:16,547 --> 00:38:18,673
"I hope you see this,
cry yourself to sleep,

792
00:38:18,757 --> 00:38:21,092
then wake up and kill
yourself, and might as well.

793
00:38:21,177 --> 00:38:22,762
You're a lousy piece of..."

794
00:38:22,844 --> 00:38:26,306
And I had never ever
heard anyone speak like that.

795
00:38:26,389 --> 00:38:29,309
The days leading up to
McKenna taking her own life,

796
00:38:29,393 --> 00:38:31,269
she was trying to stay away from her phone

797
00:38:31,353 --> 00:38:33,146
and stay away from social media.

798
00:38:33,230 --> 00:38:36,525
She left her phone at one point
the two days before in her room

799
00:38:36,608 --> 00:38:38,193
so that she wasn't looking at it.

800
00:38:38,277 --> 00:38:41,697
At the time, nobody understood
how interconnected kids were,

801
00:38:41,780 --> 00:38:45,284
and how far and wide and
inescapable that becomes.

802
00:38:45,367 --> 00:38:46,869
There's that addictive nature, too,

803
00:38:46,952 --> 00:38:49,954
the 24/7 nature of social media.

804
00:38:50,039 --> 00:38:51,331
[interviewer] She was
trying to self-regulate.

805
00:38:51,373 --> 00:38:53,250
She was trying to self-regulate,

806
00:38:53,333 --> 00:38:57,003
but she just kept going back to it to look.

807
00:38:57,088 --> 00:38:58,005
[Christine] It was a month later

808
00:38:58,047 --> 00:39:00,465
when everything started to fall apart,

809
00:39:00,548 --> 00:39:02,300
and she never went to another dance again.

810
00:39:02,385 --> 00:39:04,427
She didn't play sports or do music again.

811
00:39:04,512 --> 00:39:07,389
It just... the world fell in on her.

812
00:39:08,224 --> 00:39:12,186
So without smartphones and social media,

813
00:39:12,268 --> 00:39:13,603
I think it would've been different.

814
00:39:14,146 --> 00:39:16,981
Uh, I always say we're,
uh, brothers and sisters

815
00:39:17,065 --> 00:39:18,900
brought together through tragedy.

816
00:39:18,983 --> 00:39:20,610
And... and just look what we can do

817
00:39:20,695 --> 00:39:24,364
when we... when we come together
for a great cause such as this.

818
00:39:25,490 --> 00:39:28,577
The online harms that
so many are experiencing,

819
00:39:28,661 --> 00:39:29,704
and it's preventable.

820
00:39:29,786 --> 00:39:31,288
Like, there are things
that can be put into place

821
00:39:31,329 --> 00:39:33,498
and safeguards that KOSA spells out

822
00:39:33,581 --> 00:39:35,793
that would... could help so many.

823
00:39:37,961 --> 00:39:42,257
[Kristin] We are meeting with
senators to get more co-sponsorship

824
00:39:42,340 --> 00:39:43,800
for KOSA

825
00:39:43,884 --> 00:39:46,721
to get it scheduled
for a Senate floor vote.

826
00:39:47,596 --> 00:39:50,141
[Trisha] KOSPA, the Kids
Online Safety and Privacy Act,

827
00:39:50,224 --> 00:39:51,934
previously KOSA.

828
00:39:52,018 --> 00:39:55,146
KOSPA, in effect, what it
does is make the internet

829
00:39:55,228 --> 00:39:56,313
safe by design.

830
00:39:57,356 --> 00:39:58,815
[mouse clicks]

831
00:39:58,898 --> 00:40:01,193
[Trisha] First, it creates a duty of care

832
00:40:01,277 --> 00:40:04,112
so platforms become liable
for the harms they create.

833
00:40:06,114 --> 00:40:07,490
[teen 8] Hey, guys. Are you depressed?

834
00:40:07,574 --> 00:40:08,867
Like, comment and subscribe.

835
00:40:08,951 --> 00:40:11,829
[Trisha] It gives you, you
know, the opportunity to opt out

836
00:40:11,911 --> 00:40:13,873
of certain algorithmic recommendations.

837
00:40:15,623 --> 00:40:18,210
It creates new transparency requirements

838
00:40:18,293 --> 00:40:21,380
so platforms have to report
on the harms taking place.

839
00:40:23,048 --> 00:40:24,467
[thunder clap]

840
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:28,054
[Trisha] And it bans
targeted advertising to kids,

841
00:40:28,137 --> 00:40:30,972
and also turns on the highest
privacy settings by default

842
00:40:31,056 --> 00:40:32,307
for young people.

843
00:40:32,391 --> 00:40:35,268
[birds chirping]

844
00:40:35,353 --> 00:40:37,896
[Trisha] In a nutshell, what
KOSPA is doing is simple,

845
00:40:37,980 --> 00:40:41,233
commonsense stuff that
should've been in place

846
00:40:41,317 --> 00:40:43,235
for a really long time.

847
00:40:43,318 --> 00:40:45,653
Big tech is... is hell-bent
on not wanting this to pass

848
00:40:45,737 --> 00:40:47,989
because it will cut into profits.

849
00:40:48,074 --> 00:40:50,159
Um, you know, if they can't use

850
00:40:50,242 --> 00:40:51,744
all of these manipulative techniques

851
00:40:51,827 --> 00:40:54,621
in order to addict kids
and keep them online,

852
00:40:54,704 --> 00:40:58,333
you know, basically 24/7,
it will cut into profits.

853
00:40:58,416 --> 00:41:00,835
But it will also improve
children's well-being

854
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:02,545
and mental health immeasurably.

855
00:41:02,630 --> 00:41:03,838
[elevator bell dings]

856
00:41:03,922 --> 00:41:05,447
[dramatic strings music]

857
00:41:09,052 --> 00:41:12,014
[birds chirping]

858
00:41:20,606 --> 00:41:21,773
Hi, I'm Kristin Bride.

859
00:41:21,856 --> 00:41:23,025
Kristin, thank you for doing this.

860
00:41:23,108 --> 00:41:24,402
-Yes. -I really appreciate it.

861
00:41:24,485 --> 00:41:28,239
This is, um, one of
multiple trips to Capitol Hill

862
00:41:28,322 --> 00:41:30,574
for the sole purpose of advocating

863
00:41:30,657 --> 00:41:32,867
for the Kids Online Safety Act.

864
00:41:32,952 --> 00:41:35,538
[melancholic music]

865
00:41:35,621 --> 00:41:37,831
[news reporter] How do
you as a family move forward

866
00:41:37,914 --> 00:41:39,583
from a tragedy like this?

867
00:41:39,666 --> 00:41:41,793
[Kristin] I think by helping others.

868
00:41:42,878 --> 00:41:47,800
It is absolutely essential
that we pass legislation.

869
00:41:47,882 --> 00:41:50,885
[Kristin] They have to prevent
and mitigate cyberbullying.

870
00:41:50,969 --> 00:41:54,681
It's time for Congress to finally stand up

871
00:41:54,764 --> 00:41:56,641
to these tech giants.

872
00:41:56,726 --> 00:42:00,603
[Christine] Our children died
because of the toxic content

873
00:42:00,688 --> 00:42:02,731
that has been allowed to run rampant

874
00:42:02,815 --> 00:42:04,400
on these platforms.

875
00:42:04,483 --> 00:42:08,237
It relies on algorithms
that purposefully addict

876
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:09,320
children.

877
00:42:13,867 --> 00:42:15,744
[news reporter] How do you
want Carson to be remembered?

878
00:42:16,954 --> 00:42:21,583
This boy with the amazing
smile and his laugh.

879
00:42:21,666 --> 00:42:25,128
He had a great sense of
humor. He was super creative.

880
00:42:26,963 --> 00:42:32,344
And he would hug me so tight,
he would lift me off the ground.

881
00:42:37,016 --> 00:42:41,771
[birds chirping]

882
00:42:43,938 --> 00:42:45,190
[Juliette] I had gone on a walk

883
00:42:45,273 --> 00:42:46,817
and I ended up sitting at the bench

884
00:42:46,900 --> 00:42:49,695
and I was kind of felt
like connected to him

885
00:42:49,778 --> 00:42:52,030
even though I had never met him before.

886
00:42:53,615 --> 00:42:56,034
"I decided to take a walk around sunset."

887
00:42:56,117 --> 00:42:57,494
I stopped at the neighborhood park

888
00:42:57,577 --> 00:43:00,456
and sat on a bench at
the bottom of the hill.

889
00:43:00,539 --> 00:43:02,123
I needed a breather because last time

890
00:43:02,208 --> 00:43:04,918
I felt this way, I felt the only way out

891
00:43:05,001 --> 00:43:06,503
"was to put an end to my story."

892
00:43:06,586 --> 00:43:09,465
[calm music]

893
00:43:09,547 --> 00:43:11,467
[Juliette] As I sat in my
thoughts, I looked around

894
00:43:11,550 --> 00:43:13,969
and saw that this bench
was dedicated to someone.

895
00:43:15,637 --> 00:43:18,516
It was dedicated to the
16-year-old boy, Carson,

896
00:43:18,599 --> 00:43:20,434
who took his life in 2020.

897
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:24,438
It read, "In the end,
kindness is all that matters."

898
00:43:26,065 --> 00:43:27,440
I knew this was a sign...

899
00:43:28,983 --> 00:43:31,570
and took one white flower
and one yellow flower

900
00:43:31,653 --> 00:43:34,197
and placed them on
the left side of the bench.

901
00:43:36,282 --> 00:43:37,784
[Kristin] Juliette came over

902
00:43:37,867 --> 00:43:41,079
and we sat in front of Carson's apple tree.

903
00:43:42,289 --> 00:43:44,958
She told us about her experience.

904
00:43:46,751 --> 00:43:49,380
I didn't realize this she
used to bring flowers

905
00:43:49,463 --> 00:43:52,215
to the bench and she
used to talk to Carson.

906
00:43:56,721 --> 00:43:59,556
And she felt like she
really connected with him.

907
00:43:59,639 --> 00:44:03,936
[insects chirping, animal howling]

908
00:44:06,521 --> 00:44:09,483
[bird calling]

909
00:44:12,862 --> 00:44:14,864
[Juliette] "And now every
time you can look up at the moon

910
00:44:14,947 --> 00:44:17,532
and its crescent shape
like the letter C for Carson,

911
00:44:17,615 --> 00:44:19,577
you'll see that he's looking down,

912
00:44:19,659 --> 00:44:21,746
proud and smiling."

913
00:44:22,829 --> 00:44:25,291
[Kristin] That was
beautiful. Thank you, Juliette.

914
00:44:25,373 --> 00:44:26,375
Yeah.

915
00:44:30,378 --> 00:44:34,550
This is the left side where,
like, I would say is his spot.

916
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:39,472
[Kristin] You know, it
really felt like a personal

917
00:44:39,554 --> 00:44:41,766
and spiritual experience.

918
00:44:42,932 --> 00:44:48,773
It made me feel like
Carson is still there with us.

919
00:44:50,983 --> 00:44:53,235
He always wanted to make
the world a better place,

920
00:44:53,318 --> 00:44:54,945
and he is.

921
00:44:55,028 --> 00:44:56,554
[soft piano music]

922
00:45:09,085 --> 00:45:10,085
Feeling tired.

923
00:45:10,168 --> 00:45:12,880
I hope that my brain and
my mouth work together.

924
00:45:13,755 --> 00:45:15,215
I want it over with...

925
00:45:15,298 --> 00:45:16,925
[sighs] So badly.

926
00:45:17,009 --> 00:45:19,679
I want this day over with so badly.

927
00:45:21,554 --> 00:45:22,181
[groans]

928
00:45:22,264 --> 00:45:23,682
[tense music]

929
00:45:23,766 --> 00:45:25,391
[Durbin] This meeting of the
Senate Judiciary Committee

930
00:45:25,434 --> 00:45:26,601
will come to order.

931
00:45:27,603 --> 00:45:29,688
If you do not believe this is an idea

932
00:45:29,771 --> 00:45:32,483
whose time has come, take
a look at the turnout here.

933
00:45:32,565 --> 00:45:36,362
[indistinct chatter]

934
00:45:49,291 --> 00:45:52,128
[Durbin] Your carefully crafted algorithms

935
00:45:52,210 --> 00:45:55,422
can be more powerful force
on the lives of our children

936
00:45:55,505 --> 00:45:58,300
than even the most best-intentioned parent.

937
00:45:58,384 --> 00:46:01,637
The witnesses are here today
to address a serious topic,

938
00:46:01,721 --> 00:46:03,472
we wanna hear what they have to say.

939
00:46:03,556 --> 00:46:06,141
Could all of the witnesses
please stand to be sworn in?

940
00:46:10,353 --> 00:46:12,023
Do you affirm the
testimony you're about to give

941
00:46:12,106 --> 00:46:13,398
before the committee will be the truth,

942
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:14,900
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,

943
00:46:14,983 --> 00:46:16,027
so help you God?

944
00:46:17,402 --> 00:46:19,237
Let the record reflect
that all of the witnesses

945
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,740
have answered in the affirmative.

946
00:46:21,824 --> 00:46:25,494
We live in an America in 2024
where there is no regulatory

947
00:46:25,577 --> 00:46:27,788
body dealing with the most profitable,

948
00:46:27,871 --> 00:46:30,166
biggest companies in
the history of the world.

949
00:46:30,248 --> 00:46:32,460
They can't be sued and there's not one law

950
00:46:32,543 --> 00:46:34,586
on the book that's meaningful protecting

951
00:46:34,670 --> 00:46:36,380
the American consumer.

952
00:46:36,463 --> 00:46:39,632
To all the victims who
came and showed us photos

953
00:46:39,717 --> 00:46:41,885
of your loved ones, don't quit.

954
00:46:41,969 --> 00:46:42,887
It's working.

955
00:46:43,679 --> 00:46:44,804
[Durbin] Mr. Zuckerberg.

956
00:46:46,014 --> 00:46:48,266
With so much of our lives
spent on mobile devices

957
00:46:48,351 --> 00:46:50,518
and social media, it's important to look

958
00:46:50,603 --> 00:46:53,813
into the effects on teen
mental health and well-being.

959
00:46:53,898 --> 00:46:55,940
I take this very seriously.

960
00:46:56,025 --> 00:46:58,277
Mental health is a complex issue,

961
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,445
and the existing body of scientific work

962
00:47:00,528 --> 00:47:02,405
has not shown a causal link

963
00:47:02,489 --> 00:47:04,699
between using social media and young people

964
00:47:04,784 --> 00:47:06,494
having worse mental health outcomes.

965
00:47:07,411 --> 00:47:08,788
Mr. Zuckerberg, let me start with you.

966
00:47:08,871 --> 00:47:11,164
Did I hear you say in
your opening statement

967
00:47:11,248 --> 00:47:13,291
that there's no link between mental health

968
00:47:13,376 --> 00:47:15,001
and social media use?

969
00:47:15,085 --> 00:47:16,461
[audience shouts]

970
00:47:16,545 --> 00:47:18,088
Senator, what I said
is I think it's important

971
00:47:18,172 --> 00:47:19,380
to look at the science. I know people...

972
00:47:19,422 --> 00:47:20,632
[Hawley] Here's a quote
from your own study.

973
00:47:20,675 --> 00:47:25,221
Quote, "We make body image
issues worse for one in three

974
00:47:25,304 --> 00:47:26,597
teen girls."

975
00:47:26,681 --> 00:47:28,431
Here's another quote,
"Teens blamed Instagram,"

976
00:47:28,516 --> 00:47:30,768
this is your study, "for
increases in the rate

977
00:47:30,851 --> 00:47:32,853
of anxiety and depression.

978
00:47:32,936 --> 00:47:35,356
This reaction was unprompted and consistent

979
00:47:35,438 --> 00:47:36,815
across all groups."

980
00:47:36,898 --> 00:47:38,067
That's your study.

981
00:47:38,900 --> 00:47:41,612
Senator, we try to
under... understand the, uh,

982
00:47:41,695 --> 00:47:44,239
the feedback and... and how
people feel about the services.

983
00:47:44,322 --> 00:47:45,282
-We can improve... -Wait a minute.

984
00:47:45,324 --> 00:47:46,659
For years you've been coming in public

985
00:47:46,742 --> 00:47:50,036
and testifying under oath
that there's absolutely no link,

986
00:47:50,121 --> 00:47:52,831
your product is wonderful,
the science is nascent,

987
00:47:52,914 --> 00:47:55,835
full speed ahead, while
internally you know full well

988
00:47:55,918 --> 00:47:59,170
your product is a disaster for teenagers.

989
00:47:59,255 --> 00:48:00,380
[Zuckerberg] Senator, that's not true.

990
00:48:00,422 --> 00:48:01,798
And yet you keep right
on doing what you're doing.

991
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:03,050
[audience applauding]

992
00:48:03,134 --> 00:48:04,927
There's families of victims here today.

993
00:48:05,010 --> 00:48:06,387
Have you apologized to the victims?

994
00:48:07,262 --> 00:48:08,514
I...

995
00:48:08,597 --> 00:48:10,306
-Would you like to do so now? -Well...

996
00:48:10,391 --> 00:48:12,351
They're here, you're
on national television.

997
00:48:12,434 --> 00:48:15,061
Would you like now to
apologize to the victims

998
00:48:15,146 --> 00:48:16,271
who have been harmed by your product?

999
00:48:16,313 --> 00:48:18,190
Show 'em the pictures.

1000
00:48:18,273 --> 00:48:20,358
Would you like to apologize
for what you've done

1001
00:48:20,443 --> 00:48:21,527
to these good people?

1002
00:48:21,985 --> 00:48:23,653
This is why we invested so much

1003
00:48:23,737 --> 00:48:26,907
and are going to continue
doing industry leading efforts.

1004
00:48:27,324 --> 00:48:28,909
To make sure that...

1005
00:48:29,659 --> 00:48:31,327
no one has to go through the type of things

1006
00:48:31,411 --> 00:48:33,456
that your families have had to suffer.

1007
00:48:37,793 --> 00:48:42,590
Lip service on how important
kids are to these companies

1008
00:48:42,672 --> 00:48:44,175
and to these CEOs.

1009
00:48:44,257 --> 00:48:48,512
Um, especially, you know,
when Mark Zuckerberg was forced

1010
00:48:48,596 --> 00:48:51,681
to turn around and apologize to us,

1011
00:48:51,766 --> 00:48:54,059
um, it did not seem sincere.

1012
00:48:54,143 --> 00:48:58,438
Um, he was really put
on the spot to do that.

1013
00:48:58,521 --> 00:49:02,443
Um, you know, I... I just...

1014
00:49:02,525 --> 00:49:06,780
Every single time they were asked to

1015
00:49:06,864 --> 00:49:10,909
if they would support a
bill, um, it was very rare

1016
00:49:10,992 --> 00:49:12,619
that somebody said that they would.

1017
00:49:15,789 --> 00:49:16,998
[crew member 1] Um, I
don't know if you saw this.

1018
00:49:17,041 --> 00:49:19,210
Teen Instagram accounts,
protection for those

1019
00:49:19,293 --> 00:49:21,545
who contact them and
the content they can see.

1020
00:49:21,628 --> 00:49:23,297
[Kristin] Yeah, so this is what happens.

1021
00:49:23,380 --> 00:49:25,882
Every time we get close with this bill.

1022
00:49:25,965 --> 00:49:29,762
They come out with a PR
move, but without legislation.

1023
00:49:29,844 --> 00:49:33,724
Um, they can take it
away at any given point.

1024
00:49:33,807 --> 00:49:34,849
[René] All right. Hi, everybody.

1025
00:49:34,891 --> 00:49:37,103
Today I want to talk
about the stock of Meta.

1026
00:49:37,186 --> 00:49:39,896
The share price of Meta
stock will hit 1,000 US dollars.

1027
00:49:39,980 --> 00:49:41,648
Tech seeing some serious strength today.

1028
00:49:41,731 --> 00:49:43,192
That sector hitting a new high.

1029
00:49:43,275 --> 00:49:45,777
All eyes are on these
big tech names this week.

1030
00:49:45,860 --> 00:49:49,864
We do like these big tech
names as long-term core positions

1031
00:49:49,949 --> 00:49:51,157
in our portfolios.

1032
00:49:51,242 --> 00:49:52,576
One of the reasons
that it's been hard for us

1033
00:49:52,617 --> 00:49:53,911
to act on social media

1034
00:49:53,994 --> 00:49:56,621
is that it became so
entangled with society.

1035
00:49:56,706 --> 00:49:59,375
It became entangled with
our GDP and our stock markets.

1036
00:49:59,458 --> 00:50:01,210
You know, how much of
the big, you know, growth

1037
00:50:01,293 --> 00:50:03,586
in the stock market was due
to our largest tech companies.

1038
00:50:05,463 --> 00:50:07,048
[Cal] If we look at big oil,

1039
00:50:07,132 --> 00:50:11,219
we see that ExxonMobil is
worth around $450 billion.

1040
00:50:12,012 --> 00:50:14,764
In 2023, Meta was worth
only about half of that.

1041
00:50:15,641 --> 00:50:18,309
But since then, they
have shot up to a nearly

1042
00:50:18,393 --> 00:50:20,438
$2 trillion market cap.

1043
00:50:22,356 --> 00:50:25,400
So it's five times as profitable
to mine your attention

1044
00:50:25,483 --> 00:50:28,528
as it is to mine oil and
natural gas from the ground.

1045
00:50:28,612 --> 00:50:30,322
So the stakes here are huge.

1046
00:50:30,405 --> 00:50:32,115
These are some of the largest companies

1047
00:50:32,199 --> 00:50:34,492
in the history of the world.

1048
00:50:34,577 --> 00:50:36,911
That is how valuable our attention is.

1049
00:50:36,996 --> 00:50:39,414
This sort of dressing
up of what sounds like

1050
00:50:39,498 --> 00:50:42,710
a kind of service as a product,
and that you are the customer,

1051
00:50:42,793 --> 00:50:44,045
we're not the customers.

1052
00:50:44,128 --> 00:50:45,420
The customers are the advertisers

1053
00:50:45,503 --> 00:50:46,547
that give all their money

1054
00:50:46,630 --> 00:50:49,342
to these platforms, and...
and we're the product.

1055
00:50:49,425 --> 00:50:51,344
I mean, how much have you
paid for your Facebook account

1056
00:50:51,427 --> 00:50:53,346
or your YouTube account,
or your TikTok account

1057
00:50:53,429 --> 00:50:54,804
in the last month?

1058
00:50:54,889 --> 00:50:55,989
-[interviewer] Nothing. -Nothing?

1059
00:50:56,056 --> 00:50:58,934
How is it worth like a
trillion-dollar market cap?

1060
00:50:59,643 --> 00:51:02,521
The business model is
that they sell your attention

1061
00:51:02,605 --> 00:51:04,773
to the highest bidder for advertising.

1062
00:51:04,856 --> 00:51:08,610
And if every human only used
a technology for an hour a day,

1063
00:51:08,693 --> 00:51:10,487
there wouldn't be enough to monetize.

1064
00:51:10,570 --> 00:51:13,949
So as humans, we're being
domesticated to be the version

1065
00:51:14,032 --> 00:51:16,369
of ourselves that is maximally harvestable

1066
00:51:16,452 --> 00:51:19,496
for the attention-based business model.

1067
00:51:19,579 --> 00:51:21,539
So I think it's absolutely exploitation.

1068
00:51:22,708 --> 00:51:25,210
And there is, I think,
an interesting question

1069
00:51:25,293 --> 00:51:26,503
this raises.

1070
00:51:26,586 --> 00:51:28,088
Autonomy.

1071
00:51:28,172 --> 00:51:30,590
To what degree do you have
control over how you spend

1072
00:51:30,675 --> 00:51:31,800
your time?

1073
00:51:35,137 --> 00:51:37,472
People are trapped in
thinking that this is the only way

1074
00:51:37,556 --> 00:51:38,724
it could be,

1075
00:51:38,807 --> 00:51:41,143
when really it's that we're
caught in bad incentives,

1076
00:51:41,226 --> 00:51:43,978
bad business models that
reward the wrong thing.

1077
00:51:44,063 --> 00:51:46,023
It is pulling us away from being able

1078
00:51:46,106 --> 00:51:48,233
to actually act on these deep instincts

1079
00:51:48,317 --> 00:51:50,235
for what makes a life well lived,

1080
00:51:50,318 --> 00:51:53,030
and giving us this impoverished simulacrum,

1081
00:51:53,114 --> 00:51:55,324
which can satisfy us
temporarily in the moment,

1082
00:51:55,407 --> 00:51:56,449
can numb us in the moment,

1083
00:51:56,534 --> 00:51:58,284
but keeps us away from what really matters.

1084
00:51:59,202 --> 00:52:00,079
[birds chirping]

1085
00:52:00,161 --> 00:52:04,041
[church bell ringing]

1086
00:52:08,795 --> 00:52:10,088
[Valentijn] The smell of that.

1087
00:52:10,172 --> 00:52:11,673
[Ilya] Oh, my gosh.

1088
00:52:11,757 --> 00:52:12,590
Great color.

1089
00:52:12,675 --> 00:52:13,675
Great color.

1090
00:52:16,594 --> 00:52:17,929
[water splashing]

1091
00:52:18,014 --> 00:52:21,391
Yeah. No, it's because actually
there's a hole in the bottom of the boat.

1092
00:52:22,434 --> 00:52:26,271
[engine spluttering]

1093
00:52:26,355 --> 00:52:27,731
[Ilya] Fucking shit.

1094
00:52:27,815 --> 00:52:29,900
[laughing]

1095
00:52:30,192 --> 00:52:31,777
Can't go wrong with cheese.

1096
00:52:33,862 --> 00:52:35,989
[ringing tone]

1097
00:52:36,197 --> 00:52:38,199
Okay, and now it won't start.

1098
00:52:38,784 --> 00:52:40,827
The documentary is watching all this.

1099
00:52:41,954 --> 00:52:42,788
Come on!

1100
00:52:42,871 --> 00:52:44,289
[engine splutters and roars]

1101
00:52:44,373 --> 00:52:46,416
[cheering, clapping]

1102
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:50,963
[upbeat music]

1103
00:52:51,255 --> 00:52:52,172
12,000 bikes

1104
00:52:52,255 --> 00:52:54,342
that are being fished
out of the water, right?

1105
00:52:57,052 --> 00:52:59,179
Do you want to see the Dutch chardonnay?

1106
00:52:59,347 --> 00:52:59,972
[Ilya] Okay.

1107
00:53:00,222 --> 00:53:02,641
Because you would think it's dirty, right?

1108
00:53:03,684 --> 00:53:04,393
[Ilya] Oh, no.

1109
00:53:04,476 --> 00:53:05,811
Ew.

1110
00:53:05,894 --> 00:53:07,355
- Dutch chardonnay. - It's actually not!

1111
00:53:07,438 --> 00:53:08,313
[Ilya laughs]

1112
00:53:08,563 --> 00:53:09,440
It looks like chardonnay.

1113
00:53:09,606 --> 00:53:10,523
[Jordy] Yeah.

1114
00:53:11,385 --> 00:53:12,025
-Cheers. -[Jordy] So who's...

1115
00:53:12,068 --> 00:53:13,152
Who's drinking that?

1116
00:53:13,235 --> 00:53:14,362
Yay-hey!

1117
00:53:14,445 --> 00:53:17,739
So I was actually one of
the first people in my grade

1118
00:53:17,822 --> 00:53:19,407
who got a smartphone.

1119
00:53:19,492 --> 00:53:23,829
I was 13 years old, and I felt super cool.

1120
00:53:25,081 --> 00:53:26,916
[Ilya] From that point,
you just grow up with it,

1121
00:53:26,998 --> 00:53:28,626
and you don't really
think about those things.

1122
00:53:28,708 --> 00:53:30,210
Only when you're older, you start thinking

1123
00:53:30,293 --> 00:53:33,755
about how these devices
actually impact your life.

1124
00:53:36,132 --> 00:53:38,719
Although we're more connected than ever

1125
00:53:38,802 --> 00:53:40,387
with anyone around the world...

1126
00:53:41,681 --> 00:53:42,806
we're less connected with the people

1127
00:53:42,847 --> 00:53:44,099
we're actually with.

1128
00:53:46,393 --> 00:53:49,271
And what The offline Club
does, it brings that back.

1129
00:53:55,777 --> 00:53:57,697
[indistinct chatter]

1130
00:53:57,780 --> 00:53:58,864
No, yeah, you know the drill.

1131
00:53:58,947 --> 00:54:00,574
[customer] You know the drill. Thank you.

1132
00:54:00,657 --> 00:54:01,532
-[Jordy] Number 36. -[attendee 2] Yes.

1133
00:54:01,574 --> 00:54:02,952
Perfect, thanks so much.

1134
00:54:03,034 --> 00:54:04,494
[Jordy] Enjoy.

1135
00:54:04,577 --> 00:54:06,579
Yeah. Nice to meet you.

1136
00:54:06,664 --> 00:54:09,125
Uh, so first things first, you
guys can hand in your phone

1137
00:54:09,208 --> 00:54:10,418
with Jordy.

1138
00:54:10,501 --> 00:54:12,545
Uh, after that, you can
just order a drink at the bar,

1139
00:54:12,628 --> 00:54:14,088
make yourself feel at home.

1140
00:54:14,170 --> 00:54:15,297
- [Jordy] There you go.
- [attendee 2] Thank you.

1141
00:54:15,338 --> 00:54:17,048
[Jordy] Is your phone
off or on airplane mode?

1142
00:54:17,132 --> 00:54:18,175
Uh, it's silent.

1143
00:54:18,259 --> 00:54:19,135
[Jordy] Silent?

1144
00:54:19,217 --> 00:54:21,387
Perfect. Enjoy.

1145
00:54:21,469 --> 00:54:23,639
What do you think about
giving in your phone?

1146
00:54:24,181 --> 00:54:25,891
I'm happy to do so.

1147
00:54:26,766 --> 00:54:28,978
Otherwise I'm gonna be on it.

1148
00:54:30,478 --> 00:54:31,646
Let's take a break.

1149
00:54:32,023 --> 00:54:33,065
Enjoy.

1150
00:54:34,065 --> 00:54:35,525
[bicycle bell dings]

1151
00:54:35,608 --> 00:54:36,360
[Ilya] Okay, awesome.

1152
00:54:36,443 --> 00:54:37,820
Well, hello, everyone.

1153
00:54:37,902 --> 00:54:41,032
Thanks so much, uh, for
coming to our, uh, community,

1154
00:54:41,114 --> 00:54:44,367
uh, offline hangout at
the place where we started

1155
00:54:44,452 --> 00:54:45,619
The Offline Club

1156
00:54:45,702 --> 00:54:48,456
about seven, eight months
ago on the 4th of February.

1157
00:54:48,539 --> 00:54:52,501
[attendees applauding]

1158
00:54:52,585 --> 00:54:55,880
So it all started about two years ago

1159
00:54:55,963 --> 00:54:58,340
when Jordy and I were working together

1160
00:54:58,423 --> 00:55:01,135
and Jordy went offline for a couple days,

1161
00:55:01,217 --> 00:55:05,181
uh, just to see what it would
do for him as an experiment.

1162
00:55:05,264 --> 00:55:07,766
Yeah, I think that's...
in the camera, right?

1163
00:55:07,849 --> 00:55:09,268
[interviewer] Yeah.

1164
00:55:09,351 --> 00:55:11,936
So why I went offline for a few days...

1165
00:55:13,856 --> 00:55:15,023
[notification chimes]

1166
00:55:16,358 --> 00:55:17,985
[Jordy] I identified as a reader...

1167
00:55:19,487 --> 00:55:22,280
but I felt like I didn't
read a lot actually.

1168
00:55:22,364 --> 00:55:23,782
[pages rustling]

1169
00:55:23,865 --> 00:55:25,742
[wings fluttering]

1170
00:55:25,826 --> 00:55:27,202
[birds cooing]

1171
00:55:27,286 --> 00:55:30,498
[Jordy] Felt very enticing to
me to go offline for a few days...

1172
00:55:32,833 --> 00:55:34,585
just read books and relax.

1173
00:55:36,670 --> 00:55:37,672
No screens.

1174
00:55:39,172 --> 00:55:42,134
It's just not an option
to get on your phone.

1175
00:55:44,552 --> 00:55:46,931
And I shared my experience with Ilya.

1176
00:55:48,474 --> 00:55:50,809
So I was inspired to do the same,

1177
00:55:50,893 --> 00:55:53,938
just because earlier that summer, I had,

1178
00:55:54,021 --> 00:55:56,815
for the first time in my
life, two panic attacks.

1179
00:55:58,317 --> 00:55:59,693
[gibberish]

1180
00:56:01,027 --> 00:56:03,405
[Ilya] I was doing way too much.

1181
00:56:03,489 --> 00:56:04,532
[notification chimes]

1182
00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:10,871
[Ilya] And then in... in between
moments, not taking enough rest

1183
00:56:10,954 --> 00:56:12,123
being on my phone.

1184
00:56:14,666 --> 00:56:15,876
[static crackles]

1185
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,630
Uh, so a weekend completely
off grid for time to myself

1186
00:56:19,713 --> 00:56:23,550
in nature felt like the
perfect thing to me.

1187
00:56:23,634 --> 00:56:27,096
[birds chirping]

1188
00:56:28,179 --> 00:56:30,599
[Ilya] So in general, I just felt better.

1189
00:56:32,809 --> 00:56:36,731
I felt like I was really
reconnecting to myself

1190
00:56:36,813 --> 00:56:38,315
and to my dreams...

1191
00:56:40,568 --> 00:56:43,403
and had more time for the
things I really value in life.

1192
00:56:43,487 --> 00:56:46,114
[fire crackling]

1193
00:56:46,197 --> 00:56:49,409
[Ilya] And from then on,
this whole journey started.

1194
00:56:49,492 --> 00:56:52,413
[soft music]

1195
00:57:00,545 --> 00:57:03,007
So, ladies, how did you
hear about Offline Club?

1196
00:57:03,507 --> 00:57:05,092
I found it on Instagram.

1197
00:57:05,217 --> 00:57:07,802
I started getting ads
about it on Instagram.

1198
00:57:07,927 --> 00:57:09,429
This event, I found out about

1199
00:57:09,512 --> 00:57:11,014
thanks to social media on Instagram.

1200
00:57:12,349 --> 00:57:14,809
Yeah. So, I mean, pure irony of course,

1201
00:57:14,893 --> 00:57:17,855
but that says that the world was screaming

1202
00:57:17,938 --> 00:57:19,398
for less screen time.

1203
00:57:19,481 --> 00:57:20,648
[upbeat music]

1204
00:57:20,733 --> 00:57:23,152
Uh, like we thought, okay,
we could record a few videos

1205
00:57:23,235 --> 00:57:24,527
to promote the event.

1206
00:57:25,987 --> 00:57:27,739
[Ilya] And it was like the third reel

1207
00:57:27,822 --> 00:57:29,909
I had ever posted in my life.

1208
00:57:29,992 --> 00:57:32,744
And I remember joking
like, "Ah, we're going viral,"

1209
00:57:32,827 --> 00:57:33,621
you know?

1210
00:57:34,621 --> 00:57:38,501
And then a couple days
later, we were just like,

1211
00:57:38,583 --> 00:57:40,418
"What is happening?"

1212
00:57:41,545 --> 00:57:43,505
We got messages from everywhere.

1213
00:57:46,007 --> 00:57:47,717
[news anchor 4] The gathering
is called The Offline Club.

1214
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,887
[news anchor 5] The Offline
Club drew big crowds in London.

1215
00:57:50,971 --> 00:57:52,431
[Valentijn] The first
month, we had one event.

1216
00:57:52,472 --> 00:57:54,266
The second, six events.

1217
00:57:54,349 --> 00:57:56,226
We knew we had resurrected something old

1218
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:57,644
and created something new.

1219
00:57:57,728 --> 00:58:00,563
100,000 souls had clicked a button saying,

1220
00:58:00,648 --> 00:58:02,440
"This is something I wanna believe in."

1221
00:58:03,317 --> 00:58:06,403
And the people that come
here, like, they see this

1222
00:58:06,487 --> 00:58:08,739
as a movement more than just an event.

1223
00:58:09,907 --> 00:58:12,034
Feeling the other person in your presence.

1224
00:58:12,117 --> 00:58:15,036
You have a meaningful conversation.

1225
00:58:15,371 --> 00:58:18,666
This device doesn't replace
the physical connectedness

1226
00:58:19,083 --> 00:58:20,668
a person actually needs.

1227
00:58:21,293 --> 00:58:23,128
- You guys know each other? - No!

1228
00:58:23,211 --> 00:58:25,047
We just connected over a puzzle.
[woman and crew member laugh]

1229
00:58:25,088 --> 00:58:27,842
Puzzle definitely brings people together.

1230
00:58:28,134 --> 00:58:30,034
[Valentijn] "The community
was born as more and more eyes

1231
00:58:30,094 --> 00:58:32,679
were torn from their
screens as they dared to stand

1232
00:58:32,762 --> 00:58:34,431
for their right to disconnect."

1233
00:58:35,474 --> 00:58:38,811
"'Look up, ' I say to
those lying dormant still.

1234
00:58:38,893 --> 00:58:42,773
Look up and free yourself
to do what you will."

1235
00:58:42,856 --> 00:58:46,860
[attendees applauding]

1236
00:58:46,943 --> 00:58:48,612
[traffic whirring]

1237
00:58:48,695 --> 00:58:49,947
- [audience member 2] Hi, Trish.
- [Trisha] Yes.

1238
00:58:49,989 --> 00:58:51,614
Thank you for your presentation.

1239
00:58:51,907 --> 00:58:53,784
So in order to make

1240
00:58:54,034 --> 00:58:56,661
social media better for humanity

1241
00:58:57,621 --> 00:59:00,791
what design changes do
you think are effective?

1242
00:59:00,958 --> 00:59:02,126
[Trisha] That's a great question.

1243
00:59:02,208 --> 00:59:05,963
My... my dream social
media, if I could start over,

1244
00:59:06,047 --> 00:59:08,632
and I had, you know, control
and I could create Instagram

1245
00:59:08,715 --> 00:59:09,967
from scratch,

1246
00:59:10,050 --> 00:59:13,596
I would say first we probably
wanna rethink our algorithms.

1247
00:59:13,679 --> 00:59:15,514
[calming music]

1248
00:59:15,597 --> 00:59:19,684
Social media is designed
to maximize the speed

1249
00:59:19,768 --> 00:59:21,561
and spread of information,

1250
00:59:21,644 --> 00:59:25,608
to get as close and as fast
as possible to the next swipe,

1251
00:59:25,690 --> 00:59:29,152
the next click, the next,
uh, point of consumption,

1252
00:59:29,235 --> 00:59:31,572
versus it being designed
for this reflective

1253
00:59:31,655 --> 00:59:37,327
and more, uh, more
conscious process of our brains.

1254
00:59:37,411 --> 00:59:40,081
So just for a moment,
imagine if you're designing

1255
00:59:40,164 --> 00:59:42,416
how to connect millions
of people around the world,

1256
00:59:42,500 --> 00:59:45,043
There are so many ways
to design these products.

1257
00:59:47,045 --> 00:59:49,130
There's this wide open green field of ways

1258
00:59:49,215 --> 00:59:50,757
that you can connect people.

1259
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:52,677
[birds chirping]

1260
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:54,552
[Tristan] You know, sort
information for people.

1261
00:59:54,637 --> 00:59:55,887
[keyboard keys clicking]

1262
00:59:55,971 --> 00:59:58,306
[Tristan] Help people
have healthy conversations.

1263
00:59:58,391 --> 00:59:59,307
[messages popping]

1264
01:00:09,318 --> 01:00:11,987
[Tristan] And of that wide
spectrum of possible designs

1265
01:00:12,070 --> 01:00:13,614
that we could be living in every day...

1266
01:00:14,864 --> 01:00:16,157
[wind howls]

1267
01:00:16,242 --> 01:00:17,451
[woman gasps]

1268
01:00:17,534 --> 01:00:19,661
[Tristan] Because of the
business models of engagement,

1269
01:00:19,744 --> 01:00:21,789
of maximizing how much time you spend...

1270
01:00:23,666 --> 01:00:27,128
we get this very narrow
set of design choices...

1271
01:00:27,210 --> 01:00:28,378
[door opens]

1272
01:00:32,675 --> 01:00:34,719
[Tristan]...that are
all about notifications...

1273
01:00:34,802 --> 01:00:36,512
[notifications chime]

1274
01:00:36,594 --> 01:00:37,637
[Tristan]...infinite scroll...

1275
01:00:37,722 --> 01:00:39,931
[notifications chime]

1276
01:00:40,016 --> 01:00:41,976
[Tristan]...the most
inflammatory content...

1277
01:00:42,059 --> 01:00:44,853
[notifications chime]

1278
01:00:44,936 --> 01:00:46,396
[Tristan]...and that causes division.

1279
01:00:49,733 --> 01:00:51,777
Imagine a different
algorithm that is sorting

1280
01:00:51,860 --> 01:00:54,697
not for a personalized engagement,

1281
01:00:54,780 --> 01:00:56,865
but sorting for unlikely consensus.

1282
01:00:56,949 --> 01:00:59,617
Like, "Oh, we're all navigating
this more complex conversation

1283
01:00:59,702 --> 01:01:02,163
together rather than
only getting this one-sided,

1284
01:01:02,246 --> 01:01:04,331
inflammatory newsfeed."

1285
01:01:07,293 --> 01:01:09,670
If the algorithm was
designed for our well-being,

1286
01:01:09,753 --> 01:01:11,797
it wouldn't just be giving
us, like, more health content

1287
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:13,132
over and over and over again.

1288
01:01:14,215 --> 01:01:15,967
'Cause well-being is
living a life well-lived.

1289
01:01:16,052 --> 01:01:18,012
It means being in your body,
it means being out in the world,

1290
01:01:18,054 --> 01:01:20,681
it means feeling connection
to yourself, to other people.

1291
01:01:21,349 --> 01:01:25,018
[wings flutter]

1292
01:01:25,101 --> 01:01:26,628
[dramatic music]

1293
01:01:40,451 --> 01:01:42,119
[Tristan] So an algorithm
that was optimized

1294
01:01:42,202 --> 01:01:46,998
for well-being would be
steering us back into the world,

1295
01:01:47,083 --> 01:01:49,418
doing things that promote human thriving.

1296
01:01:52,545 --> 01:01:53,672
[player grunts]

1297
01:01:55,965 --> 01:01:57,342
[Tristan] If all of the newsfeeds

1298
01:01:57,425 --> 01:01:59,469
we're surrounded by routed us,

1299
01:01:59,552 --> 01:02:02,681
let's say, 25% of the
time to in-person belonging

1300
01:02:02,764 --> 01:02:04,557
and community, whether it's dance classes

1301
01:02:04,641 --> 01:02:07,268
or choir groups or
sewing clubs or book clubs,

1302
01:02:07,353 --> 01:02:10,021
there's just so many things
that we could have access to,

1303
01:02:10,106 --> 01:02:13,067
how quickly would that
f... change how you feel

1304
01:02:13,150 --> 01:02:14,318
about what the world is?

1305
01:02:20,407 --> 01:02:24,786
[Kristin] We need to get a
Senate floor vote on KOSA now.

1306
01:02:24,869 --> 01:02:27,873
We have 70 bipartisan cosponsors,

1307
01:02:27,956 --> 01:02:30,876
and so it will pass in the Senate

1308
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:32,420
without a filibuster.

1309
01:02:32,503 --> 01:02:35,380
[tense music]

1310
01:02:35,463 --> 01:02:39,510
[Kristin] We don't have a set
answer what is holding this up.

1311
01:02:41,052 --> 01:02:45,557
It passed 10 months ago
unanimously out of committee...

1312
01:02:46,726 --> 01:02:48,561
and we are running out of time.

1313
01:02:49,728 --> 01:02:51,146
[Taylor] There's a really shocking piece

1314
01:02:51,230 --> 01:02:52,398
of legislation in Congress

1315
01:02:52,481 --> 01:02:53,606
right now that you should know about.

1316
01:02:53,648 --> 01:02:55,608
It's called the Kids Online Safety Act,

1317
01:02:55,693 --> 01:02:59,030
or KOSA for short, but
don't let the name fool you.

1318
01:02:59,112 --> 01:03:00,447
[Cory] And opponents
are saying that they feel

1319
01:03:00,489 --> 01:03:03,659
that this is a violation
of their First Amendment.

1320
01:03:03,742 --> 01:03:07,496
A lot of LGBTQ groups and
the ACLU are still opposed

1321
01:03:07,579 --> 01:03:10,666
to this because it leaves too
much room for interpretation

1322
01:03:10,750 --> 01:03:11,958
by the government.

1323
01:03:12,043 --> 01:03:14,628
This bill would do the
opposite of protecting kids.

1324
01:03:14,711 --> 01:03:16,963
It's a censorship bill.

1325
01:03:17,047 --> 01:03:18,507
It's not a censorship bill.

1326
01:03:19,632 --> 01:03:21,260
There used to be a provision in KOSPA

1327
01:03:21,344 --> 01:03:23,637
that allowed state
attorney generals to define

1328
01:03:23,721 --> 01:03:25,764
and enforce harm.

1329
01:03:25,847 --> 01:03:27,141
It's gone.

1330
01:03:27,224 --> 01:03:28,516
And I think rightly so.

1331
01:03:28,601 --> 01:03:31,019
That was, uh, a change that
I very strongly pushed for,

1332
01:03:31,103 --> 01:03:33,646
and it's a really common piece
of mis and disinformation I see.

1333
01:03:33,731 --> 01:03:35,483
"The power's going to
the state attorney generals,

1334
01:03:35,565 --> 01:03:37,693
and maybe some conservative
state attorney general

1335
01:03:37,777 --> 01:03:41,864
is gonna define harm
as pro-LGBTQIA  content,

1336
01:03:41,947 --> 01:03:43,239
and you're gonna take that content away

1337
01:03:43,282 --> 01:03:44,824
"from young people."

1338
01:03:44,909 --> 01:03:46,117
It's not in the bill anymore.

1339
01:03:46,202 --> 01:03:47,827
Um, it's still being brought up,

1340
01:03:47,911 --> 01:03:53,333
and possibly it's being
fed by the big tech lobbyists

1341
01:03:53,416 --> 01:03:56,003
as a way to stall this bill.

1342
01:03:57,797 --> 01:04:00,215
[Josh] This bill is really about
regulating these algorithms

1343
01:04:00,298 --> 01:04:02,550
which are pushing all sorts
of harmful content to kids.

1344
01:04:02,635 --> 01:04:05,179
It's not about taking
down the content itself.

1345
01:04:08,224 --> 01:04:12,103
So right now, we have 70
cosponsors in the Senate,

1346
01:04:12,186 --> 01:04:15,271
um, and we are trying to
get a floor vote in the Senate.

1347
01:04:15,356 --> 01:04:16,898
But we don't really know why it hasn't come

1348
01:04:16,981 --> 01:04:18,818
to the floor yet with that much support.

1349
01:04:19,818 --> 01:04:22,822
I just don't know
what's-what's gonna happen.

1350
01:04:24,782 --> 01:04:28,577
[Josh] We are deeply
concerned about the $90 million

1351
01:04:28,661 --> 01:04:30,161
that big tech has spent on lobbying

1352
01:04:30,246 --> 01:04:31,871
over the past three years.

1353
01:04:34,958 --> 01:04:36,710
Parents are so frustrated,

1354
01:04:36,793 --> 01:04:40,005
and we feel like they're
being kept from these leaders

1355
01:04:40,088 --> 01:04:41,882
in Congress precisely because they know

1356
01:04:41,965 --> 01:04:44,217
how powerful their stories
will be. [elevator bell dings]

1357
01:04:46,469 --> 01:04:48,639
[Vivek] When you look
at the public conversation

1358
01:04:48,721 --> 01:04:49,849
around social media,

1359
01:04:49,931 --> 01:04:53,101
it has actually fallen on
parents and kids themselves

1360
01:04:53,184 --> 01:04:56,313
to come forward and
to raise these concerns.

1361
01:04:56,396 --> 01:04:58,106
You know, I had the
privilege of meeting with...

1362
01:04:58,190 --> 01:05:00,358
With Kristin Bride, uh, some time ago.

1363
01:05:00,443 --> 01:05:03,112
And Kristin, I don't know
that I would have the strength

1364
01:05:03,195 --> 01:05:05,489
and the wherewithal to
do what you have done

1365
01:05:05,572 --> 01:05:07,824
after experiencing Carson's loss.

1366
01:05:07,907 --> 01:05:09,577
Uh, but the inspiration
that you have brought,

1367
01:05:09,659 --> 01:05:12,288
not just to me but to so many
people across the country,

1368
01:05:12,371 --> 01:05:14,288
have helped get us to a
place where we are now

1369
01:05:14,373 --> 01:05:17,335
actually talking about how
to make social media safer.

1370
01:05:17,418 --> 01:05:18,668
- [audience applauding] -
[Vivek] So I... I just wanna

1371
01:05:18,710 --> 01:05:20,211
thank you so much for your leadership

1372
01:05:20,295 --> 01:05:21,380
and your courage.

1373
01:05:24,507 --> 01:05:26,927
When I issued the
Surgeon General's advisory

1374
01:05:27,010 --> 01:05:29,221
on social media and youth mental health,

1375
01:05:29,304 --> 01:05:31,306
I was thinking about her and Carson.

1376
01:05:31,389 --> 01:05:34,393
So her story has had a
powerful impact on me.

1377
01:05:34,476 --> 01:05:36,896
I'm so grateful to parents like Kristin,

1378
01:05:36,978 --> 01:05:40,106
because they have helped
fuel a movement in our country

1379
01:05:40,190 --> 01:05:42,902
to push for the policy
reforms that we need,

1380
01:05:42,985 --> 01:05:45,445
and to fundamentally
change public awareness.

1381
01:05:45,528 --> 01:05:48,865
[soft piano music]

1382
01:05:48,949 --> 01:05:52,036
[Chuck] We've heard from so
many parents whose kids sadly

1383
01:05:52,119 --> 01:05:55,121
took their own lives because
of what happened to them

1384
01:05:55,206 --> 01:05:56,831
on social media.

1385
01:05:56,916 --> 01:06:00,085
To their everlasting credit, these parents,

1386
01:06:00,168 --> 01:06:03,338
instead of cursing the
darkness, lit a candle.

1387
01:06:03,422 --> 01:06:06,884
They turned their grief
into grace, an amazing thing.

1388
01:06:07,802 --> 01:06:09,969
I ask unanimous consent the scheduled vote

1389
01:06:10,054 --> 01:06:11,389
occur immediately.

1390
01:06:11,471 --> 01:06:12,739
[presiding officer] Without objection.

1391
01:06:13,599 --> 01:06:16,018
[clerk] Mr. Blumenthal. Aye.

1392
01:06:16,101 --> 01:06:17,603
Mr. Durbin. Aye.

1393
01:06:18,396 --> 01:06:19,980
Mr. Rubio. Aye.

1394
01:06:20,063 --> 01:06:22,108
Mr. Graham. Aye.

1395
01:06:22,190 --> 01:06:24,735
Ms. Warren. Aye.

1396
01:06:24,818 --> 01:06:26,945
Mr. McConnell. Aye.

1397
01:06:27,028 --> 01:06:28,904
Mr. Kelly. Aye.

1398
01:06:29,572 --> 01:06:31,492
Mr. Cruz. Aye.

1399
01:06:31,574 --> 01:06:35,161
On this vote, the ayes
are 91, the nays are three,

1400
01:06:35,246 --> 01:06:36,956
and the motion is agreed to.

1401
01:06:37,038 --> 01:06:40,291
The Senate stands in recess until 2:15 p.m.

1402
01:06:40,376 --> 01:06:41,376
[hammer thuds]

1403
01:06:43,753 --> 01:06:48,217
[indistinct chatter]

1404
01:06:53,514 --> 01:06:54,346
It felt good.

1405
01:06:54,431 --> 01:06:57,809
Every single aye vote was amazing.

1406
01:06:57,893 --> 01:07:00,146
Okay, one more. Okay, one more cheer.

1407
01:07:00,228 --> 01:07:00,980
One more...

1408
01:07:01,063 --> 01:07:04,817
[cheering]

1409
01:07:04,900 --> 01:07:07,152
Ninety votes to three?

1410
01:07:07,235 --> 01:07:09,487
If you would have told
me that even a year ago,

1411
01:07:10,822 --> 01:07:12,240
I would not have believed you.

1412
01:07:12,324 --> 01:07:15,577
These parents have already made history.

1413
01:07:15,661 --> 01:07:17,829
We've moved from talking
about is there a problem

1414
01:07:17,913 --> 01:07:20,750
to debating what the solutions are.

1415
01:07:20,833 --> 01:07:24,878
He's in my heart and in my soul, and I know

1416
01:07:24,961 --> 01:07:26,422
he's cheering me on today.

1417
01:07:26,505 --> 01:07:29,007
We're gonna use this momentum
and we're gonna get it passed

1418
01:07:29,090 --> 01:07:30,925
in the House and signed into law.

1419
01:07:34,179 --> 01:07:38,851
[bus whirring]

1420
01:07:41,519 --> 01:07:44,398
Yes, sir. Good morning, good morning.

1421
01:07:44,481 --> 01:07:46,150
Have a great day. Have a great day.

1422
01:07:46,233 --> 01:07:47,443
Good morning, good morning.

1423
01:07:47,525 --> 01:07:49,070
Well, the first reaction students had

1424
01:07:49,152 --> 01:07:50,528
when they heard about the policy is,

1425
01:07:50,612 --> 01:07:52,072
"It's never going to happen."

1426
01:07:52,154 --> 01:07:54,032
It's the first time I see
your face without the hair

1427
01:07:54,115 --> 01:07:55,701
covering it.

1428
01:07:55,784 --> 01:07:59,371
They were committed
that this would not come

1429
01:07:59,454 --> 01:08:01,706
to fruition in September.

1430
01:08:01,791 --> 01:08:04,543
And when it did, it was a shock.

1431
01:08:04,626 --> 01:08:07,045
[upbeat music]

1432
01:08:12,217 --> 01:08:13,969
If we don't think there's
a phone in the pouch

1433
01:08:14,052 --> 01:08:15,012
we can open it and check.

1434
01:08:15,137 --> 01:08:17,930
We've found weird things in there.

1435
01:08:18,099 --> 01:08:19,600
Yeah.

1436
01:08:19,725 --> 01:08:21,394
We appreciate it too when they come ready.

1437
01:08:21,475 --> 01:08:22,770
You guys can come this way.

1438
01:08:24,104 --> 01:08:25,354
This policy's annoying!

1439
01:08:25,814 --> 01:08:26,774
Oh, I think it's fine.

1440
01:08:26,981 --> 01:08:28,649
- It's stupid. - It's hard.

1441
01:08:29,024 --> 01:08:30,734
The pouches? They're calm, they're calm.

1442
01:08:30,944 --> 01:08:32,529
Bro, I don't use my phone much in school

1443
01:08:32,613 --> 01:08:34,448
so it doesn't really bother me. Yeah.

1444
01:08:34,698 --> 01:08:36,323
It's alright I guess.

1445
01:08:36,408 --> 01:08:38,493
People get to interact more and stuff.

1446
01:08:38,577 --> 01:08:41,162
More people are like more involved in class

1447
01:08:41,247 --> 01:08:42,163
than before I feel like.

1448
01:08:47,752 --> 01:08:48,921
[announcer on PA] Winston Macdonald.

1449
01:08:48,961 --> 01:08:50,006
They catch 'em.

1450
01:08:50,087 --> 01:08:51,179
[announcer on PA]
Please come to main office.

1451
01:08:51,220 --> 01:08:52,925
- They catch 'em.
- [announcer on PA] Winston Macdonald.

1452
01:08:52,966 --> 01:08:56,011
That means a student
just got... got through.

1453
01:08:56,095 --> 01:08:58,345
But what happens, you're the odd person out

1454
01:08:58,430 --> 01:08:59,556
using the phone.

1455
01:09:00,599 --> 01:09:02,434
Yeah, I arrived in Brockton High School

1456
01:09:02,518 --> 01:09:05,060
January 2nd of 2024,

1457
01:09:05,145 --> 01:09:07,229
and I've been the
principal since that time.

1458
01:09:07,314 --> 01:09:09,274
Try this. Unbelievable.

1459
01:09:10,234 --> 01:09:12,403
Even Sam likes it.

1460
01:09:12,484 --> 01:09:15,238
He's just so funny. I love Mr. McCaskill.

1461
01:09:15,322 --> 01:09:19,076
For me, uh, the arrival of
our current principal here

1462
01:09:19,158 --> 01:09:20,786
in the high school is a game changer.

1463
01:09:21,912 --> 01:09:23,912
[student 10] Mr. McCaskill
was able to kind of give everyone

1464
01:09:23,956 --> 01:09:27,917
the same idea and it makes
everyone feel important.

1465
01:09:28,002 --> 01:09:30,836
So when he does step into dad mode...

1466
01:09:30,921 --> 01:09:32,715
[Kevin] Let's go, let's
go, let's go, let's go.

1467
01:09:32,797 --> 01:09:36,010
Get the hoods off, please.
Thank you, thank you.

1468
01:09:36,091 --> 01:09:37,051
it's effective,

1469
01:09:37,136 --> 01:09:39,430
because he already
has built a relationship.

1470
01:09:39,511 --> 01:09:42,850
Uh, my son, who tends to
not trust a lot of the adults

1471
01:09:42,932 --> 01:09:45,684
around him, uh, loves this man.

1472
01:09:45,770 --> 01:09:46,935
-Hey, hey. -Hey, how you guys doing?

1473
01:09:46,979 --> 01:09:49,481
So coming in, there were
just a multitude of things

1474
01:09:49,564 --> 01:09:51,233
that we really had to address.

1475
01:09:51,317 --> 01:09:53,443
There was some obvious violence issues.

1476
01:09:53,527 --> 01:09:54,737
[news anchor 6] Fights in the high school

1477
01:09:54,779 --> 01:09:56,238
really dominated the headlines.

1478
01:09:56,322 --> 01:09:57,739
Teacher morale was down.

1479
01:09:57,823 --> 01:09:59,367
It was just that how do we settle?

1480
01:09:59,449 --> 01:10:00,658
How do we just settle the ship?

1481
01:10:00,743 --> 01:10:03,787
How do we just get
everything to an even keel?

1482
01:10:03,871 --> 01:10:05,747
[news anchor 7] Have you
ever witnessed a fight here?

1483
01:10:05,831 --> 01:10:09,585
[Anthony] In my four years,
I've never seen a fight in person.

1484
01:10:09,668 --> 01:10:10,795
Snapchat's a different story.

1485
01:10:10,877 --> 01:10:12,380
Last year, like, with the phones,

1486
01:10:12,462 --> 01:10:13,588
every time there was a fight,

1487
01:10:13,672 --> 01:10:15,215
there would always be,
like, people, like, you know,

1488
01:10:15,256 --> 01:10:17,091
reaching out for their
phone, like, trying to record it.

1489
01:10:17,134 --> 01:10:19,052
[news anchor 7] The
new major challenge lies

1490
01:10:19,136 --> 01:10:20,887
in the palms of students' hands.

1491
01:10:20,970 --> 01:10:23,515
And instead of being a
situation between two students

1492
01:10:23,599 --> 01:10:27,019
that could be diffused quickly,
um, you'd have students trying

1493
01:10:27,103 --> 01:10:29,354
to take pictures, getting the inside scoop,

1494
01:10:29,438 --> 01:10:31,856
and who had the best view of the fight.

1495
01:10:31,940 --> 01:10:34,902
It was definitely obvious
there was a problem

1496
01:10:34,984 --> 01:10:36,820
because I would be
walking around the classroom

1497
01:10:36,904 --> 01:10:38,780
trying to redirect kids' attention

1498
01:10:38,863 --> 01:10:41,074
and they would just be constantly staring

1499
01:10:41,158 --> 01:10:42,201
at their phones.

1500
01:10:42,283 --> 01:10:44,662
I'm not a boring teacher,
but I'm never going to be

1501
01:10:44,744 --> 01:10:47,664
as exciting as the latest Netflix special

1502
01:10:47,747 --> 01:10:50,126
or, you know, Taylor Swift's latest drop.

1503
01:10:50,208 --> 01:10:50,960
I mean, I'm just not.

1504
01:10:51,042 --> 01:10:52,502
I'm... I'm just not that exciting.

1505
01:10:52,586 --> 01:10:54,630
And big tech, they know
exactly what they're doing.

1506
01:10:54,713 --> 01:10:56,215
They... they know this is an addiction.

1507
01:10:56,297 --> 01:10:58,426
And how... how do you feed an addiction?

1508
01:10:58,509 --> 01:11:03,055
You just continue to give
things that... that are distracting,

1509
01:11:03,139 --> 01:11:04,681
that are quick hits.

1510
01:11:04,765 --> 01:11:06,975
And so by removing that obstacle,

1511
01:11:07,059 --> 01:11:09,184
we're creating that phone-free environment.

1512
01:11:09,270 --> 01:11:11,021
The key to working with technology,

1513
01:11:11,104 --> 01:11:14,149
especially with young
people, is to get buy-in.

1514
01:11:14,233 --> 01:11:16,109
Principal was very clear in saying,

1515
01:11:16,193 --> 01:11:18,820
"This is not meant to be a punitive change.

1516
01:11:18,904 --> 01:11:21,032
This is meant to be a cultural change."

1517
01:11:22,992 --> 01:11:24,284
It's not a ban.

1518
01:11:24,368 --> 01:11:28,956
We are just simply having
you hold on to your device

1519
01:11:29,039 --> 01:11:32,083
and remove the distraction from education.

1520
01:11:32,167 --> 01:11:33,668
[interviewer] When the
school went phone free,

1521
01:11:33,711 --> 01:11:34,712
how did you feel?

1522
01:11:34,795 --> 01:11:36,005
I cried. [laughs]

1523
01:11:36,087 --> 01:11:37,506
I cried a lot.

1524
01:11:37,590 --> 01:11:39,841
I had such a big attachment to my phone.

1525
01:11:39,925 --> 01:11:42,219
I felt, like, if I didn't
have my phone on me

1526
01:11:42,302 --> 01:11:44,889
at that second, I would just pass out.

1527
01:11:44,971 --> 01:11:47,307
[tape whirring]

1528
01:11:47,390 --> 01:11:49,726
[Cristal] But after I got to school

1529
01:11:49,809 --> 01:11:51,770
and I just learned to adapt

1530
01:11:51,854 --> 01:11:54,814
without it for a couple of days,
I'm just like, "You know what?

1531
01:11:54,899 --> 01:11:57,484
I could feel myself just kind
of bursting out of my bubble

1532
01:11:57,568 --> 01:12:00,279
and not inside of my comfort zone as much."

1533
01:12:00,363 --> 01:12:01,363
I feel like it definitely

1534
01:12:01,447 --> 01:12:04,324
adds more community,
especially like at lunch.

1535
01:12:04,408 --> 01:12:06,952
Like the other years, I would
just stay at my lunch table

1536
01:12:07,036 --> 01:12:08,412
mostly on my phone.

1537
01:12:08,496 --> 01:12:10,581
So it kind of, like, pushes
you to meet more people

1538
01:12:10,663 --> 01:12:13,000
in a... in a sense, especially in class,

1539
01:12:13,083 --> 01:12:16,337
'cause you don't really have
another form of communication

1540
01:12:16,420 --> 01:12:17,546
like last year.

1541
01:12:17,630 --> 01:12:20,341
So, yeah, there's that. You
get to meet more people.

1542
01:12:20,423 --> 01:12:22,467
We are seeing extraordinary
change happen at...

1543
01:12:22,551 --> 01:12:24,595
At a school level, and it's accelerating.

1544
01:12:24,679 --> 01:12:27,139
I've been encouraged to
see the positive feedback

1545
01:12:27,222 --> 01:12:30,475
that's come from educators,
parents, and students

1546
01:12:30,559 --> 01:12:34,521
as they see academic performance
improving, and as they see

1547
01:12:34,604 --> 01:12:37,608
social skills and social
connection improving as well.

1548
01:12:37,692 --> 01:12:40,152
So what's that? Eight
X squared minus four X.

1549
01:12:40,235 --> 01:12:42,029
[Sarah] It's made everything so much nicer.

1550
01:12:42,113 --> 01:12:43,863
I mean, the kids are talking to each other,

1551
01:12:43,948 --> 01:12:45,032
they're talking to me.

1552
01:12:45,115 --> 01:12:47,158
I can ask a question and
actually get an answer

1553
01:12:47,243 --> 01:12:48,452
because kids are paying attention.

1554
01:12:48,536 --> 01:12:49,994
I have eye contact.

1555
01:12:50,077 --> 01:12:50,996
Whoa, what did I write?

1556
01:12:51,079 --> 01:12:52,081
[teacher] I don't know what you wrote.

1557
01:12:52,122 --> 01:12:53,164
I got X times eight X...

1558
01:12:53,248 --> 01:12:56,252
It just really helps me so
much just not having a phone

1559
01:12:56,335 --> 01:12:57,502
on me all the time.

1560
01:12:57,586 --> 01:12:59,005
[interviewer] Was that surprising?

1561
01:12:59,087 --> 01:13:00,256
It was.

1562
01:13:00,338 --> 01:13:02,466
I never thought I would be
able to let go of my phone.

1563
01:13:02,550 --> 01:13:05,301
I'm telling you, like, I
would be cooking food,

1564
01:13:05,386 --> 01:13:08,264
my phone is right next
to me whilst I'm cooking.

1565
01:13:08,346 --> 01:13:11,350
But at school, I'm just
allowing myself to focus

1566
01:13:11,434 --> 01:13:14,353
on one thing alone and not just my phone.

1567
01:13:14,436 --> 01:13:18,440
[soft music]

1568
01:13:18,524 --> 01:13:21,527
[Vivek] Sometimes people ask
me, "Is this worry about social"

1569
01:13:21,609 --> 01:13:23,404
media just another moral panic,

1570
01:13:24,488 --> 01:13:28,074
like the panics we've had about TV, radio,

1571
01:13:28,158 --> 01:13:29,618
"and other new technologies?"

1572
01:13:31,037 --> 01:13:33,122
I think this is fundamentally different.

1573
01:13:33,204 --> 01:13:37,376
We never had a technology
that we can put in our pocket,

1574
01:13:38,877 --> 01:13:43,591
carry with us at all times,
that fundamentally transforms

1575
01:13:43,673 --> 01:13:46,051
how we absorb information in the world...

1576
01:13:48,179 --> 01:13:50,639
that changes fundamentally
how we see ourselves.

1577
01:13:54,059 --> 01:13:57,020
One of the things that we
achieve when we get phones

1578
01:13:57,104 --> 01:13:59,606
out of schools and allow
kids to focus on learning

1579
01:13:59,689 --> 01:14:02,525
and social connection is
we also give them a chance,

1580
01:14:02,609 --> 01:14:06,529
uh, to be still, to be
not engaged constantly

1581
01:14:06,613 --> 01:14:08,198
100% of the time.

1582
01:14:08,282 --> 01:14:10,158
And the fact that social
media and our devices

1583
01:14:10,242 --> 01:14:13,244
have soaked up all of our attention

1584
01:14:13,327 --> 01:14:17,707
and taken away any moments
where we may be bored,

1585
01:14:17,792 --> 01:14:19,585
that actually has not
been a positive thing.

1586
01:14:20,418 --> 01:14:24,297
Because boredom, the capacity for boredom,

1587
01:14:24,381 --> 01:14:28,260
turns out to be crucial
to the human spirit.

1588
01:14:28,344 --> 01:14:32,055
When we're bored, our brains are not bored.

1589
01:14:32,139 --> 01:14:35,684
Our brains are using
that downtime to create

1590
01:14:35,768 --> 01:14:38,104
what's called the default mode network,

1591
01:14:38,186 --> 01:14:42,692
which is the brain
structure to really create

1592
01:14:42,774 --> 01:14:46,318
a sense of self, literally a
sense of a consistent self.

1593
01:14:47,404 --> 01:14:49,407
Your brain used to do
that while you were sitting

1594
01:14:49,489 --> 01:14:53,577
at the back of a taxi, or just
kind of watching the water.

1595
01:14:53,661 --> 01:14:58,164
If now you're, like,
glued to the blue light,

1596
01:14:58,248 --> 01:15:01,418
and you're jumping around,
and you got reels and Instagram,

1597
01:15:01,502 --> 01:15:03,003
and you're photographing your food,

1598
01:15:04,005 --> 01:15:06,548
your brain never has that time.

1599
01:15:06,631 --> 01:15:08,509
Humans feel bored so that we'll get up

1600
01:15:08,591 --> 01:15:09,760
and invent fire,

1601
01:15:09,844 --> 01:15:12,680
so that we'll actually go
out and improve the shelters.

1602
01:15:12,762 --> 01:15:15,432
We feel boredom because we
need to actually expend energy

1603
01:15:15,515 --> 01:15:18,728
on things that don't give
us an immediate return.

1604
01:15:18,809 --> 01:15:22,439
Boredom in some sense drives
the human creative project.

1605
01:15:22,523 --> 01:15:25,525
So if we can just look at that,
and now I'm no longer bored,

1606
01:15:25,609 --> 01:15:28,279
we never actually get
to the intended purpose

1607
01:15:28,362 --> 01:15:29,447
of the sensation,

1608
01:15:29,529 --> 01:15:32,115
which is to actually go
out and do higher energy,

1609
01:15:32,198 --> 01:15:33,743
more meaningful activity.

1610
01:15:35,077 --> 01:15:37,327
[Sherry] But then also
connection to something larger

1611
01:15:37,412 --> 01:15:38,997
isn't happening.

1612
01:15:39,081 --> 01:15:41,667
Who am I? Who's around me?

1613
01:15:41,751 --> 01:15:43,752
What do I care about?

1614
01:15:43,836 --> 01:15:47,922
These conversations with
the self happen in quiet.

1615
01:15:48,548 --> 01:15:50,801
And social media, which is
supposed to put you in touch

1616
01:15:50,885 --> 01:15:53,011
with all these people,
all these new experiences,

1617
01:15:53,095 --> 01:15:54,346
all these new friends,

1618
01:15:54,430 --> 01:15:58,684
actually is subverting
our ability to form identity.

1619
01:16:00,101 --> 01:16:01,645
That's a big cost.

1620
01:16:02,896 --> 01:16:04,273
That's a very big cost.

1621
01:16:06,149 --> 01:16:08,818
[upbeat music]

1622
01:16:21,539 --> 01:16:22,500
[Ilya] What tennis clubs

1623
01:16:22,582 --> 01:16:24,793
And what football clubs used to be,

1624
01:16:24,877 --> 01:16:27,921
people got together there,
they stayed the whole day.

1625
01:16:28,005 --> 01:16:30,048
It doesn't happen anymore.
People go in and out.

1626
01:16:31,926 --> 01:16:33,511
I think we all have this tendency

1627
01:16:33,636 --> 01:16:35,930
to go super fast-paced.

1628
01:16:37,347 --> 01:16:40,225
We don't really have time to process much

1629
01:16:40,309 --> 01:16:42,645
and everybody's more
or less on their phones

1630
01:16:42,728 --> 01:16:45,855
when we're going somewhere
or even at restaurants or bars.

1631
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:49,068
The focus of this space

1632
01:16:49,150 --> 01:16:51,112
is to normalize again

1633
01:16:51,193 --> 01:16:53,447
a way of socializing
without being interrupted.

1634
01:16:54,782 --> 01:16:56,783
[crew member 2] Moni,
Moni! [speaks Spanish]

1635
01:16:56,867 --> 01:16:57,493
[camera clicks]

1636
01:16:58,284 --> 01:17:00,077
[Jennifer] I'm Jennifer, I'm from Nigeria,

1637
01:17:00,162 --> 01:17:02,331
and I'm at Offline Club in Dubai.

1638
01:17:02,414 --> 01:17:06,543
And I just gave up my phone.
Everybody's, like, very in sync.

1639
01:17:06,627 --> 01:17:09,337
The synergy is great.
Everybody's very present.

1640
01:17:09,421 --> 01:17:12,882
I mean, now I understand why
I needed to give up my phone.

1641
01:17:13,259 --> 01:17:14,425
It was a bit weird

1642
01:17:14,510 --> 01:17:16,261
to enter and leave behind your phone

1643
01:17:16,345 --> 01:17:18,722
because the first thing I thought

1644
01:17:18,805 --> 01:17:19,931
when I checked my pockets,

1645
01:17:20,015 --> 01:17:21,307
"Oh God, where is it?"

1646
01:17:21,391 --> 01:17:23,101
But in reality if we
think about it carefully

1647
01:17:23,184 --> 01:17:27,023
It helps us focus and remain in the present

1648
01:17:27,689 --> 01:17:30,525
without thinking I'll take a
photo because I want to post it

1649
01:17:30,609 --> 01:17:32,193
and I want to show it to someone.

1650
01:17:32,818 --> 01:17:37,032
[Ilya] It's definitely our dream
to build a worldwide community.

1651
01:17:37,992 --> 01:17:41,037
We wanna make being offline the norm

1652
01:17:41,119 --> 01:17:45,541
so everybody can have
access to offline spaces.

1653
01:17:47,001 --> 01:17:49,211
The most beautiful thing we have in life

1654
01:17:49,295 --> 01:17:52,340
is human relationships
with our friends and family.

1655
01:17:53,298 --> 01:17:55,675
[cheering]

1656
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:56,594
[static crackles]

1657
01:17:56,675 --> 01:17:59,137
Exactly that is what we're gonna lose.

1658
01:17:59,889 --> 01:18:05,144
Creativity, human connection,
and a feeling of being present

1659
01:18:05,226 --> 01:18:07,645
because of technological advancements.

1660
01:18:07,771 --> 01:18:10,065
Do we have the power to turn that around?

1661
01:18:10,983 --> 01:18:12,318
So although I think there's really

1662
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:16,447
an offline movement going
on in the world right now,

1663
01:18:16,529 --> 01:18:23,371
I definitely think that most of
the world is going towards AI

1664
01:18:23,452 --> 01:18:27,082
and unregulated technological advancement.

1665
01:18:27,957 --> 01:18:28,958
[dramatic music]

1666
01:18:45,684 --> 01:18:48,645
So with the roller coaster ride for years,

1667
01:18:48,729 --> 01:18:50,314
we're down lower than we've been.

1668
01:18:51,731 --> 01:18:56,487
Um, Schumer said, "If we
don't get this done this year,

1669
01:18:56,568 --> 01:18:58,197
we'll get it done next year."

1670
01:18:59,448 --> 01:19:01,617
But that's not how it works.

1671
01:19:01,701 --> 01:19:03,952
If we don't get it passed this year,

1672
01:19:04,036 --> 01:19:07,163
the process starts from scratch under...

1673
01:19:07,247 --> 01:19:09,041
Under the new administration.

1674
01:19:10,291 --> 01:19:11,793
You know, I don't know

1675
01:19:11,877 --> 01:19:13,421
if the door is still open.

1676
01:19:14,505 --> 01:19:16,381
There's things happening to get to Trump.

1677
01:19:16,966 --> 01:19:19,675
I have no insight at all into that world

1678
01:19:20,845 --> 01:19:22,846
and like the people he's talking to

1679
01:19:22,930 --> 01:19:24,640
whether it's going to
make a difference or not.

1680
01:19:25,975 --> 01:19:27,559
I don't want to get anybody's hopes up

1681
01:19:27,643 --> 01:19:29,686
and I don't want anybody to give up.

1682
01:19:31,564 --> 01:19:35,650
[birds chirping]

1683
01:19:40,989 --> 01:19:42,282
[Ainsley on TV] So
there's... there's a bill,

1684
01:19:42,323 --> 01:19:44,326
the Kids Online Safety Act.

1685
01:19:44,409 --> 01:19:45,827
[Steve on TV] This is a bipartisan bill.

1686
01:19:45,911 --> 01:19:47,162
Both sides like it.

1687
01:19:47,246 --> 01:19:49,873
It has passed the Senate.
It is sitting on your desk.

1688
01:19:49,957 --> 01:19:51,250
We had a guest a couple of days ago

1689
01:19:51,332 --> 01:19:52,835
who suggested that one of the reasons

1690
01:19:52,916 --> 01:19:55,378
you're not taking it up is because Meta,

1691
01:19:55,462 --> 01:19:57,381
which would be impacted, is gonna build

1692
01:19:57,465 --> 01:20:02,511
a $10 billion facility for
AI in Northern Louisiana.

1693
01:20:02,595 --> 01:20:03,429
[chuckles]

1694
01:20:03,511 --> 01:20:04,889
That... That's a creative argument.

1695
01:20:04,971 --> 01:20:07,224
I mean, that... that's not
even in my district, okay?

1696
01:20:07,307 --> 01:20:09,559
Everyone who worked so hard to get KOSA,

1697
01:20:09,643 --> 01:20:10,644
that's the bill, KOSA,

1698
01:20:10,728 --> 01:20:12,395
together are to be
commended for their work.

1699
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:14,648
We all share the same urgent desire,

1700
01:20:14,731 --> 01:20:16,023
and that is to protect children.

1701
01:20:16,108 --> 01:20:18,193
But, um, we've gotta
make sure we do this right.

1702
01:20:18,277 --> 01:20:21,447
And when you're talking
about regulating online content,

1703
01:20:21,529 --> 01:20:24,074
you have to make sure that
it doesn't provide an avenue

1704
01:20:24,157 --> 01:20:25,868
-to censor conservative speech. -Right.

1705
01:20:25,951 --> 01:20:27,327
And we're almost there.
I just feel like this bill...

1706
01:20:27,369 --> 01:20:28,077
It's not a content bill.

1707
01:20:28,119 --> 01:20:29,454
Doesn't go far enough

1708
01:20:29,537 --> 01:20:30,372
in that protection,

1709
01:20:30,456 --> 01:20:32,166
and we'll get it done early next year.

1710
01:20:32,248 --> 01:20:33,375
They'll be able to take a victory lap,

1711
01:20:33,416 --> 01:20:34,627
and we'll protect children.

1712
01:20:34,710 --> 01:20:37,087
We have to get that right.
You cannot do it, uh, you know...

1713
01:20:37,171 --> 01:20:38,171
[scoffs]

1714
01:20:38,255 --> 01:20:39,965
[melancholic music]

1715
01:20:40,048 --> 01:20:42,217
[Kristin] All the people
that have supported

1716
01:20:42,300 --> 01:20:44,552
this bipartisan bill,

1717
01:20:44,636 --> 01:20:48,556
all the changes that were
made so that everyone felt good

1718
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:53,145
about this, and, um, it didn't work.

1719
01:20:53,938 --> 01:20:56,690
And so, KOSA is dead.

1720
01:20:59,652 --> 01:21:05,532
In the end, $90 million in
lobbying fees and big tech

1721
01:21:05,615 --> 01:21:09,327
were too insurmountable
for 20 grieving parents

1722
01:21:09,412 --> 01:21:12,163
to get Congress to pass legislation

1723
01:21:12,247 --> 01:21:14,916
that would prevent future online harms.

1724
01:21:17,461 --> 01:21:22,132
I'm getting so many nice
supportive messages from people.

1725
01:21:22,216 --> 01:21:25,720
Um, "Momentum is indeed growing.

1726
01:21:25,802 --> 01:21:27,430
The old system is collapsing.

1727
01:21:27,512 --> 01:21:30,557
Hang in there and know
that work done out of love

1728
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:33,059
is never, never done in vain."

1729
01:21:33,144 --> 01:21:34,145
[sighs]

1730
01:21:34,228 --> 01:21:35,520
Oh, man.

1731
01:21:37,648 --> 01:21:39,065
"You must be devastated, Kristin."

1732
01:21:39,148 --> 01:21:41,735
Those of us who understand
the implications of this

1733
01:21:41,818 --> 01:21:43,945
stand and grieve with you.

1734
01:21:44,029 --> 01:21:46,823
And it may not feel like this right now,

1735
01:21:46,907 --> 01:21:49,409
but I believe the men...
momentum is growing

1736
01:21:49,493 --> 01:21:50,411
across the world.

1737
01:21:50,493 --> 01:21:51,619
"Don't give up."

1738
01:21:52,371 --> 01:21:53,456
[sniffles]

1739
01:21:55,442 --> 01:21:56,041
[sighs]

1740
01:21:56,125 --> 01:21:57,126
Just...

1741
01:21:59,337 --> 01:22:01,338
[sighs]...heartbreaking.

1742
01:22:05,300 --> 01:22:08,636
[indistinct chatter]

1743
01:22:21,192 --> 01:22:22,443
Hi.

1744
01:22:25,404 --> 01:22:26,113
Oh, Kristin.

1745
01:22:26,197 --> 01:22:28,532
Oh, good to see you, too.

1746
01:22:30,784 --> 01:22:33,621
I had given it my all for KOSA,

1747
01:22:33,702 --> 01:22:36,707
and then to get so close
and to have it not pass.

1748
01:22:36,791 --> 01:22:38,583
Yeah. Yeah.

1749
01:22:38,666 --> 01:22:43,881
We are up against such
an incredible force of money

1750
01:22:43,963 --> 01:22:46,091
with big tech and lobbyists.

1751
01:22:46,175 --> 01:22:49,552
If KOSA had passed, it
would've been held up

1752
01:22:49,636 --> 01:22:51,221
in the courts for years anyway.

1753
01:22:51,305 --> 01:22:52,305
Yeah.

1754
01:22:52,390 --> 01:22:56,434
Um, and so I am so glad
that we ended up winning

1755
01:22:56,519 --> 01:22:58,813
our Section 230 appeal,

1756
01:22:58,895 --> 01:23:02,983
and will hopefully get our day in court.

1757
01:23:03,067 --> 01:23:04,318
Yeah.

1758
01:23:04,402 --> 01:23:07,195
Doing my work for 10 years,
I've been up against companies

1759
01:23:07,279 --> 01:23:10,907
that actively design
features to counteract...

1760
01:23:10,990 --> 01:23:11,992
-Right. -The benefits

1761
01:23:12,076 --> 01:23:13,284
that I'm trying to promote, right?

1762
01:23:13,368 --> 01:23:14,702
Getting young people
to be more intentional,

1763
01:23:14,744 --> 01:23:16,788
getting them to think twice.

1764
01:23:16,872 --> 01:23:19,541
I... I'm stuck in this system
that is fundamentally flawed.

1765
01:23:19,625 --> 01:23:20,710
Yes.

1766
01:23:20,791 --> 01:23:23,503
So that... that was really
at the crux of law school.

1767
01:23:23,587 --> 01:23:25,463
I never really thought
I'd want to be a lawyer,

1768
01:23:25,547 --> 01:23:26,716
-you know? I was never... -Yeah.

1769
01:23:26,798 --> 01:23:29,385
But I wanna give other
innovators a chance to know

1770
01:23:29,467 --> 01:23:31,052
that their ideas to
make the internet better

1771
01:23:31,136 --> 01:23:32,512
actually have a fighting chance.

1772
01:23:32,595 --> 01:23:33,555
Yes.

1773
01:23:35,890 --> 01:23:40,020
To see big tech at the inauguration...

1774
01:23:40,104 --> 01:23:41,104
[news anchor 8] The nation's richest

1775
01:23:41,146 --> 01:23:42,898
and most powerful tech tycoons

1776
01:23:42,981 --> 01:23:45,775
had some of the best seats in the House.

1777
01:23:45,859 --> 01:23:50,197
I'm doubtful that we
are gonna be able to pass

1778
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:53,576
a meaningful bill like
KOSA, the version that passed

1779
01:23:53,657 --> 01:23:54,702
in the Senate.

1780
01:23:54,784 --> 01:23:56,702
We're gonna have to take it on ourselves

1781
01:23:56,787 --> 01:23:58,581
because Congress didn't.

1782
01:23:58,663 --> 01:24:02,251
To announce the largest AI
infrastructure project by far

1783
01:24:02,335 --> 01:24:03,377
in history,

1784
01:24:03,461 --> 01:24:07,797
and it's all taking place
right here in America.

1785
01:24:07,881 --> 01:24:09,466
I mean, we're at a crossroads right now.

1786
01:24:09,550 --> 01:24:11,510
We are birthing the
most powerful technology

1787
01:24:11,594 --> 01:24:13,386
that we as a species have ever invented.

1788
01:24:13,470 --> 01:24:16,806
Truly, AI is that. And we have a choice.

1789
01:24:16,890 --> 01:24:19,351
You won't have to work the long hours

1790
01:24:19,434 --> 01:24:20,309
that you work today.

1791
01:24:20,394 --> 01:24:23,480
You won't, uh, have a shortage of doctors

1792
01:24:23,564 --> 01:24:25,065
and huge waiting lists.

1793
01:24:25,148 --> 01:24:28,402
That will empower humans
to create, to flourish,

1794
01:24:28,485 --> 01:24:31,279
to escape the widespread
poverty and suffering

1795
01:24:31,363 --> 01:24:32,907
that exist in the world today.

1796
01:24:32,989 --> 01:24:35,493
There's just so much stuff we can all do

1797
01:24:35,576 --> 01:24:38,662
if we do get to this world
of abundant intelligence,

1798
01:24:38,746 --> 01:24:40,497
where you can sort of
just think of a new idea

1799
01:24:40,581 --> 01:24:41,791
and it... it gets created.

1800
01:24:42,750 --> 01:24:46,337
So, we often get sort of
seduced by the possible

1801
01:24:46,420 --> 01:24:47,337
of a new technology.

1802
01:24:47,421 --> 01:24:50,298
Like social media could connect the world,

1803
01:24:50,382 --> 01:24:52,842
make the world more
peaceful, give everyone a voice,

1804
01:24:52,925 --> 01:24:54,095
democratize speech.

1805
01:24:54,177 --> 01:24:55,680
That's all possible.

1806
01:24:55,762 --> 01:24:57,931
But we don't look at the probable

1807
01:24:58,015 --> 01:25:00,016
of what's actually likely to happen

1808
01:25:00,100 --> 01:25:01,934
given the incentives that are at play.

1809
01:25:02,019 --> 01:25:03,104
Like the reality.

1810
01:25:03,186 --> 01:25:06,439
And I think with AI, we
are also seduced by the im...

1811
01:25:06,523 --> 01:25:08,317
Unimaginable possible.

1812
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:12,154
[Brook] Education and medicine
will soon be transformed.

1813
01:25:12,238 --> 01:25:14,198
Climate change could be solved.

1814
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:16,742
World of abundance, of,
you know, free everything,

1815
01:25:16,826 --> 01:25:19,744
and, you know, amazing science
and technology advancement.

1816
01:25:19,827 --> 01:25:24,625
We'll get some of those things,
but the probable is this sort of

1817
01:25:24,708 --> 01:25:25,710
all-out race...

1818
01:25:25,791 --> 01:25:27,712
A kind of AI arms race.

1819
01:25:27,795 --> 01:25:30,506
Hundreds of billions
have been spent on AI...

1820
01:25:30,588 --> 01:25:32,382
to take as many shortcuts as possible.

1821
01:25:32,466 --> 01:25:35,011
That data center is gonna be 2.2 gigawatts.

1822
01:25:35,094 --> 01:25:36,554
Like, more than most cities.

1823
01:25:36,636 --> 01:25:38,471
Data centers across the nation,

1824
01:25:38,555 --> 01:25:40,432
draining the nation's aging power grid.

1825
01:25:40,515 --> 01:25:41,850
How are we gonna get all that power?

1826
01:25:41,934 --> 01:25:44,145
This is a major, major national issue.

1827
01:25:44,228 --> 01:25:46,730
And deploy it into society
as quickly as possible.

1828
01:25:46,814 --> 01:25:48,081
[Dylan] Everyone is doing this, right?

1829
01:25:48,148 --> 01:25:50,150
-Everyone is doing this, right? -[laughs]

1830
01:25:50,234 --> 01:25:53,612
And that, in a race where you
have the maximum incentive

1831
01:25:53,695 --> 01:25:56,489
to take shortcuts, is not gonna end well.

1832
01:25:56,573 --> 01:25:58,199
Joining us now to discuss, Geoffrey Hinton.

1833
01:25:58,282 --> 01:25:59,659
You left your job with Google in part

1834
01:25:59,743 --> 01:26:01,037
because you say you wanna focus solely

1835
01:26:01,119 --> 01:26:03,247
on your concerns about AI.

1836
01:26:03,329 --> 01:26:06,082
You've spoken out saying
that AI could manipulate

1837
01:26:06,166 --> 01:26:09,337
or possibly figure out
a way to kill humans.

1838
01:26:09,420 --> 01:26:11,756
H... h... how could it kill humans?

1839
01:26:11,838 --> 01:26:13,882
It knows how to program,
so it'll figure out ways

1840
01:26:13,966 --> 01:26:16,886
of getting round, um,
restrictions we put on it.

1841
01:26:16,969 --> 01:26:18,804
It'll figure out ways
of manipulating people

1842
01:26:18,887 --> 01:26:19,846
to do what it wants.

1843
01:26:19,930 --> 01:26:21,556
Were you disappointed when Google went back

1844
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:24,601
on its promise not to
support military uses of AI?

1845
01:26:24,684 --> 01:26:26,020
Very disappointed.

1846
01:26:26,103 --> 01:26:28,855
[Brook] But it's part of
a pattern, Hinton says,

1847
01:26:28,939 --> 01:26:33,527
adding Meta and xAI to the
list of companies racing faster

1848
01:26:33,610 --> 01:26:34,862
than they should.

1849
01:26:34,943 --> 01:26:38,490
The near future does look dystopian,

1850
01:26:38,573 --> 01:26:42,827
and you don't need crazy sci-fi to see it.

1851
01:26:42,912 --> 01:26:46,623
Generative AI algorithms
are going to become

1852
01:26:46,707 --> 01:26:49,502
far more effective in the next few years.

1853
01:26:49,585 --> 01:26:51,378
This feedback loop, this
constant feedback loop

1854
01:26:51,462 --> 01:26:53,338
of you consuming information,

1855
01:26:53,421 --> 01:26:56,675
and it watching your consumption patterns,

1856
01:26:56,759 --> 01:26:59,804
and it will be able to generate
con... content on the fly.

1857
01:26:59,886 --> 01:27:01,846
This... this world becomes more interesting

1858
01:27:01,930 --> 01:27:05,475
than the difficult, messy outside world.

1859
01:27:05,559 --> 01:27:07,895
Welcome to the future of entertainment.

1860
01:27:07,978 --> 01:27:10,021
This is Character. AI

1861
01:27:10,105 --> 01:27:15,110
where you don't just watch
a story happen, you create it.

1862
01:27:15,193 --> 01:27:16,237
I'll take the bandit.

1863
01:27:17,904 --> 01:27:19,489
[Cartoon character]
There's limitless possibilities,

1864
01:27:19,532 --> 01:27:20,407
all in your hands.

1865
01:27:20,490 --> 01:27:22,618
Takes less time than making a TikTok.

1866
01:27:22,702 --> 01:27:24,702
[tense music]

1867
01:27:24,787 --> 01:27:26,287
One of the things that we're already seeing

1868
01:27:26,372 --> 01:27:29,625
is what was the race for
engagement in social media

1869
01:27:29,708 --> 01:27:33,253
is becoming the race for intimacy with AI.

1870
01:27:33,337 --> 01:27:34,712
People are gonna have
relationships with AIs.

1871
01:27:34,755 --> 01:27:35,631
How... how do we make sure

1872
01:27:35,715 --> 01:27:37,007
that these are healthy relationships?

1873
01:27:37,091 --> 01:27:39,719
Well, I think there are a lot of questions

1874
01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:42,971
that you only really can
answer as you start seeing

1875
01:27:43,055 --> 01:27:44,140
-the behaviors. -Hmm.

1876
01:27:44,222 --> 01:27:45,640
[news anchor 9] And
tonight, it's a Florida mom

1877
01:27:45,682 --> 01:27:47,309
suing a chatbot startup

1878
01:27:47,393 --> 01:27:49,979
after her 14-year-old son died by suicide.

1879
01:27:50,061 --> 01:27:52,439
Sewell Setzer got into a relationship

1880
01:27:52,523 --> 01:27:54,065
with this chatbot.

1881
01:27:54,859 --> 01:27:57,068
[messages beep]

1882
01:27:58,404 --> 01:28:00,864
[news anchor 10] Garcia
claims that Character. AI chatbot

1883
01:28:00,948 --> 01:28:02,198
encouraged Sewell to take his own life.

1884
01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:04,118
[messages beep]

1885
01:28:13,627 --> 01:28:15,546
How is it possible that this ever

1886
01:28:15,628 --> 01:28:16,671
could have happened?

1887
01:28:16,756 --> 01:28:19,466
Like, why would we ever
release this to children?

1888
01:28:19,550 --> 01:28:22,845
In Silicon Valley, it's
typical that they say

1889
01:28:22,927 --> 01:28:25,765
move fast and break things
when it comes to innovation.

1890
01:28:25,847 --> 01:28:27,182
That's reckless.

1891
01:28:27,265 --> 01:28:29,059
Um, you shouldn't move
fast and break things

1892
01:28:29,143 --> 01:28:30,644
when it comes to my child.

1893
01:28:31,604 --> 01:28:33,314
And I worry that we've
made a devil's bargain

1894
01:28:33,396 --> 01:28:34,481
with technology.

1895
01:28:34,564 --> 01:28:36,148
We can just chat with bots online,

1896
01:28:36,233 --> 01:28:38,735
we don't need to actually
speak to a human being

1897
01:28:38,818 --> 01:28:40,529
and hear a voice.

1898
01:28:40,613 --> 01:28:42,530
Those might seem like small moments

1899
01:28:42,614 --> 01:28:43,990
that are dispensable,

1900
01:28:44,074 --> 01:28:46,952
but it turns out that's all
part of what makes us human.

1901
01:28:47,036 --> 01:28:50,081
We have traded community for convenience.

1902
01:28:52,791 --> 01:28:54,210
There's literally a quote from the recent

1903
01:28:54,291 --> 01:28:56,002
Wall Street Journal
article you might've seen,

1904
01:28:56,087 --> 01:28:58,838
that Zuckerberg said, you
know, he felt bad that Facebook

1905
01:28:58,922 --> 01:29:00,216
kind of lost against TikTok

1906
01:29:00,298 --> 01:29:02,134
because they were too anchored
around connecting people

1907
01:29:02,217 --> 01:29:03,260
with their friends.

1908
01:29:03,344 --> 01:29:05,930
And so, he said, "We
should be more aggressive

1909
01:29:06,012 --> 01:29:08,724
in going after kids and AI companions."

1910
01:29:08,807 --> 01:29:10,434
[Zuckerberg] There's this
stat that I always think is crazy.

1911
01:29:10,475 --> 01:29:11,934
The... the... the average American,

1912
01:29:12,019 --> 01:29:15,314
I think, has, I think it's
fewer than three friends.

1913
01:29:15,398 --> 01:29:16,606
-Hmm. -When... when he says

1914
01:29:16,690 --> 01:29:19,275
that people only have three
friends and they're lonely,

1915
01:29:19,359 --> 01:29:20,110
does he realize

1916
01:29:20,193 --> 01:29:21,987
that it's because of his products

1917
01:29:22,070 --> 01:29:24,198
that people, in part, are so lonely?

1918
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:26,742
Because you have, you know,
a trillion-dollar supercomputer

1919
01:29:26,826 --> 01:29:28,493
pointed at your brain, calculating

1920
01:29:28,577 --> 01:29:30,912
what's gonna keep you by
yourself scrolling, you know,

1921
01:29:30,996 --> 01:29:33,248
on a Tuesday night, feeling alone.

1922
01:29:33,332 --> 01:29:34,416
He created that.

1923
01:29:35,791 --> 01:29:37,586
We're just, we've, like, lost and forgotten

1924
01:29:37,670 --> 01:29:39,671
that we're capable of choosing.

1925
01:29:40,881 --> 01:29:42,341
So... so much of what I see is this, like,

1926
01:29:42,425 --> 01:29:44,135
collapse of imagination.

1927
01:29:44,217 --> 01:29:45,761
Um...

1928
01:29:45,970 --> 01:29:46,970
Yeah, we're treating AI like

1929
01:29:47,054 --> 01:29:48,430
an asteroid hurdling towards Earth.

1930
01:29:48,596 --> 01:29:49,806
That there's nothing that we can do about.

1931
01:29:49,849 --> 01:29:52,434
We're creating the asteroid
that's hurtling towards Earth.

1932
01:29:52,518 --> 01:29:53,894
And it's, like, why aren't we learning

1933
01:29:53,978 --> 01:29:56,771
the lessons of social media from before?

1934
01:29:59,942 --> 01:30:03,279
♪ How long will it take to understand ♪

1935
01:30:03,362 --> 01:30:05,948
♪ There's been too much suffering ♪

1936
01:30:06,032 --> 01:30:07,657
♪ Too many tears ♪

1937
01:30:07,742 --> 01:30:09,909
♪ How many people have to die ♪

1938
01:30:09,993 --> 01:30:14,164
♪ Before you finally
decide enough is enough ♪

1939
01:30:14,247 --> 01:30:18,127
♪ Enough is enough, enough is enough ♪

1940
01:30:18,210 --> 01:30:22,340
♪ Enough is enough, enough is enough ♪

1941
01:30:22,422 --> 01:30:26,260
♪ Enough is enough, enough is enough ♪

1942
01:30:26,344 --> 01:30:28,679
♪ Enough is enough, enough is enough ♪

1943
01:30:28,762 --> 01:30:31,849
Build a future where
children are protected.

1944
01:30:31,931 --> 01:30:35,728
Build a future where
children are protected.

1945
01:30:35,809 --> 01:30:39,523
Build a future where
children are protected.

1946
01:30:39,606 --> 01:30:43,360
Build a future where
children are protected.

1947
01:30:43,443 --> 01:30:45,945
Build a future where
children are protected.

1948
01:30:46,029 --> 01:30:51,577
[Kristin] Five years ago, when
Carson died, I felt so alone.

1949
01:30:51,659 --> 01:30:55,288
I felt like I was to blame and, um,

1950
01:30:55,372 --> 01:30:56,748
I had no one to turn to.

1951
01:30:56,832 --> 01:31:00,670
And today, there's
youth stepping up, saying,

1952
01:31:00,752 --> 01:31:02,462
"We don't want loss."

1953
01:31:02,546 --> 01:31:04,047
Our numbers are... are getting bigger

1954
01:31:04,131 --> 01:31:05,591
and bigger by the day.

1955
01:31:05,675 --> 01:31:09,845
And eventually, we're gonna
put them at that tipping point.

1956
01:31:09,929 --> 01:31:11,514
[wheel whirring]

1957
01:31:11,596 --> 01:31:13,599
[Ilya] I don't think that we
have to have anyone else

1958
01:31:13,682 --> 01:31:16,809
or any of the big tech firms decide

1959
01:31:16,894 --> 01:31:19,063
how we are gonna interact with technology.

1960
01:31:19,145 --> 01:31:22,858
[uplifting music]

1961
01:31:22,942 --> 01:31:25,193
[Frances] One of the things
that I think is really powerful

1962
01:31:25,277 --> 01:31:26,568
and we need to remember

1963
01:31:26,654 --> 01:31:30,782
is the way major changes
have happened in history,

1964
01:31:30,865 --> 01:31:33,077
is one person talks to another person.

1965
01:31:35,662 --> 01:31:38,791
They all began with people recognizing

1966
01:31:38,873 --> 01:31:41,002
that they had value as human beings.

1967
01:31:43,837 --> 01:31:45,922
Regulations come after
the will of the people.

1968
01:31:46,006 --> 01:31:51,679
If we start the movement,
then we have a voice together.

1969
01:31:54,806 --> 01:31:56,809
[Tristan] We've done this before.

1970
01:31:56,891 --> 01:31:59,270
You know, we... we
protected national parks.

1971
01:31:59,353 --> 01:32:00,895
We said, "These are our national treasure."

1972
01:32:03,023 --> 01:32:04,358
"This is not open for drilling."

1973
01:32:06,652 --> 01:32:07,818
[Bird] Save me.

1974
01:32:09,113 --> 01:32:10,613
[Tristan] So, right now,
with the attention economy,

1975
01:32:10,655 --> 01:32:12,365
it's like you can drill
for attention anywhere,

1976
01:32:12,449 --> 01:32:13,993
including in children's brains.

1977
01:32:15,243 --> 01:32:16,912
[Bird] Save me.

1978
01:32:16,996 --> 01:32:19,039
[Tristan] We can just
say, "Hey, children's minds

1979
01:32:19,122 --> 01:32:20,332
are national parks."

1980
01:32:20,416 --> 01:32:21,291
[Bird] Save...

1981
01:32:23,836 --> 01:32:25,628
[Tristan] "Let's not
drill for attention there."

1982
01:32:25,712 --> 01:32:30,009
[birds chirping]

1983
01:32:31,550 --> 01:32:34,805
[Trisha] This narrative that we
hear constantly in Washington

1984
01:32:34,889 --> 01:32:36,681
and Silicon Valley, you know, "I'm just...

1985
01:32:36,765 --> 01:32:39,100
Well, you know, I'm... I'm...
I'm responsible to, you know,

1986
01:32:39,184 --> 01:32:41,520
my shareholders and I
just... I have to make money.

1987
01:32:41,604 --> 01:32:43,439
And so, this is why I
have to do it this way."

1988
01:32:43,521 --> 01:32:44,481
No, you don't.

1989
01:32:44,564 --> 01:32:46,233
You can get a little creative and do both.

1990
01:32:46,317 --> 01:32:49,278
You're making a choice
when you prioritize profit

1991
01:32:49,362 --> 01:32:50,070
over people.

1992
01:32:50,154 --> 01:32:53,323
[birds chirping]

1993
01:32:53,407 --> 01:32:57,452
[wings fluttering]

1994
01:32:57,536 --> 01:33:00,413
[Trisha] Do we wanna raise a
generation of empathetic, humane

1995
01:33:00,497 --> 01:33:01,664
young people?

1996
01:33:03,751 --> 01:33:06,295
[uplifting music]

1997
01:33:16,389 --> 01:33:17,913
[uplifting music continues]

1998
01:34:03,978 --> 01:34:05,604
[soft music]

1999
01:34:05,688 --> 01:34:07,523
All I want you to do is think in your mind

2000
01:34:07,605 --> 01:34:09,898
about an experience, a memorable

2001
01:34:09,984 --> 01:34:13,529
and significant experience
that you've had in your life.

2002
01:34:14,447 --> 01:34:17,574
I would say that it
looks something like this,

2003
01:34:17,657 --> 01:34:19,952
scrolling on a device.

2004
01:34:20,618 --> 01:34:21,577
-[kids] No. -[man 2] No?

2005
01:34:21,662 --> 01:34:22,662
- [kids] No.
- [kid 1] Going on a cruise ship.

2006
01:34:22,704 --> 01:34:24,289
Am... am I off a little bit?

2007
01:34:24,371 --> 01:34:25,707
-[kid 1] Yes. -[kid 2] Way off.

2008
01:34:25,791 --> 01:34:27,083
I want to defend our world.

2009
01:34:27,166 --> 01:34:28,460
Oh, okay, okay, okay.

2010
01:34:28,543 --> 01:34:31,630
So, maybe that incredible
experience, that amazing day,

2011
01:34:31,713 --> 01:34:36,217
maybe it had nothing to do
with being on a device at all.

2012
01:34:37,302 --> 01:34:40,597
Had something to do
with probably being outside

2013
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:42,850
under the sun or under the stars.

2014
01:34:42,932 --> 01:34:45,934
It may have had something to
do with you being with people

2015
01:34:46,020 --> 01:34:48,689
that you love, and those people love you.

2016
01:34:48,773 --> 01:34:52,650
It had something to do with
you being active, being in motion.

2017
01:34:54,068 --> 01:34:58,490
There's a reason for that.
That's not just a coincidence.

2018
01:34:58,573 --> 01:35:00,743
It turns out those are the things

2019
01:35:01,493 --> 01:35:04,204
that add real value to our lives.

2020
01:35:06,748 --> 01:35:07,750
[slate clacks]

2021
01:35:07,832 --> 01:35:10,418
[interviewer] Um, and
do you own smartphone?

2022
01:35:10,502 --> 01:35:11,921
No, I do not.

2023
01:35:12,003 --> 01:35:13,130
Nope.

2024
01:35:13,296 --> 01:35:14,798
Do you have social media?

2025
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:16,884
No, I don't have social media.

2026
01:35:17,134 --> 01:35:19,386
The truth is... I don't see the reason.

2027
01:35:20,179 --> 01:35:22,430
It takes up lots of time.

2028
01:35:22,514 --> 01:35:25,893
And... And it can hurt your eyes.

2029
01:35:26,018 --> 01:35:29,728
I think some things are
posted that are inappropriate

2030
01:35:29,814 --> 01:35:32,148
and some things are unkind.

2031
01:35:32,358 --> 01:35:36,904
The older kids use it to bully each other.

2032
01:35:37,362 --> 01:35:41,657
I think that technology is... is good.

2033
01:35:41,782 --> 01:35:46,788
If you use it to learn or something.

2034
01:35:47,206 --> 01:35:49,039
[interviewer] Do you find it
strange how so many people

2035
01:35:49,082 --> 01:35:51,377
are on social media so much?

2036
01:35:51,460 --> 01:35:53,170
Kind of. Yeah.

2037
01:35:53,253 --> 01:35:55,088
But it's probably addictive.

2038
01:35:55,171 --> 01:35:58,134
It's like you watch something short,

2039
01:35:58,216 --> 01:36:00,386
it gives you dopamine
or something like that,

2040
01:36:00,469 --> 01:36:02,094
and you're like, "Oh, that one's bad.

2041
01:36:02,179 --> 01:36:03,596
I wanna go look at another one."

2042
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:05,139
[interviewer] Do you know,
like, when you'll get a phone?

2043
01:36:05,181 --> 01:36:06,350
Did your parents say?

2044
01:36:06,434 --> 01:36:10,728
Probably, like, when I'm 14 or 15.

2045
01:36:10,813 --> 01:36:12,981
They don't think I'm ready for a phone yet.

2046
01:36:13,064 --> 01:36:14,431
[interviewer] How do you feel about that?

2047
01:36:15,317 --> 01:36:19,112
I am grateful that they...
they're not having me

2048
01:36:19,195 --> 01:36:24,368
get a phone earlier than I want to.

2049
01:36:24,452 --> 01:36:26,287
[interviewer chuckles]

2050
01:36:26,369 --> 01:36:27,496
[interviewer] Awesome. All right.

2051
01:36:27,579 --> 01:36:28,329
Thanks so much.

2052
01:36:28,413 --> 01:36:29,331
You're welcome.

2053
01:36:29,414 --> 01:36:30,940
[calm music]

2054
01:36:42,177 --> 01:36:46,639
[electrical hum]

2055
01:36:46,724 --> 01:36:50,978
[birds chirping]