1 00:00:14,598 --> 00:00:17,017 YOU CAN HEAR IN THESE RECORDINGS 2 00:00:17,143 --> 00:00:19,979 JEFFREY DAHMER AND HIS FATHER LIONEL. 3 00:00:20,062 --> 00:00:26,068 THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN PUBLISHED. 4 00:00:30,948 --> 00:00:33,784 The following conversation took place between Jeff and me, 5 00:00:33,868 --> 00:00:36,203 when he called me from prison. 6 00:00:40,708 --> 00:00:44,336 I don't want to be serious and get macabre, you know? 7 00:00:44,420 --> 00:00:46,964 - Yes. - But I want to clarify some things. 8 00:00:47,047 --> 00:00:49,008 Are you okay with that? 9 00:00:49,091 --> 00:00:51,260 I wanted to tell you one thing. 10 00:00:51,385 --> 00:00:55,556 Do you remember to the little wooden box? 11 00:00:57,266 --> 00:00:59,393 You know what was in there, right? 12 00:01:01,562 --> 00:01:05,900 The number of victims of the mass murderer from Milwaukee is estimated at 17. 13 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,779 The police have body parts found in an apartment. 14 00:01:09,904 --> 00:01:14,533 The question is whether they discovered a death factory. 15 00:01:18,329 --> 00:01:22,625 I was like that busy with my actions. 16 00:01:24,376 --> 00:01:25,586 The forensics 17 00:01:25,711 --> 00:01:28,881 had to have a skull remove from a refrigerator. 18 00:01:28,964 --> 00:01:31,592 Two more bodies were in a freezer. 19 00:01:33,135 --> 00:01:35,763 I was obsessed. 20 00:01:35,846 --> 00:01:38,724 I thought I'd do that for the rest of my life. 21 00:01:40,017 --> 00:01:42,603 Police have arrested Jeffrey Dahmer, 31, arrested. 22 00:01:42,686 --> 00:01:44,313 He is called "the cannibal". 23 00:01:44,438 --> 00:01:47,274 The authorities have the terrible task... 24 00:01:47,399 --> 00:01:50,945 You are a loving, kind person. 25 00:01:51,695 --> 00:01:54,448 You show other people respect. 26 00:01:54,532 --> 00:01:58,118 You show no signs of anger at all. 27 00:02:03,707 --> 00:02:06,961 {\an8}You should know that I love you very much. 28 00:02:07,044 --> 00:02:08,629 You are important to me. 29 00:02:08,754 --> 00:02:11,131 Same to you. OK, Dad. 30 00:02:16,846 --> 00:02:19,807 About his son's actions to understand 31 00:02:19,890 --> 00:02:24,687 Lionel took the phone calls with Jeffrey from prison. 32 00:02:24,812 --> 00:02:28,774 He spoke to the man who he trusted the most. 33 00:02:28,858 --> 00:02:34,655 This could be the first real insight in people being Jeffrey Dahmer. 34 00:02:35,531 --> 00:02:37,032 MY SON JEFFREY 35 00:02:37,157 --> 00:02:42,454 THE DAHMER FAMILY TAPES 36 00:02:43,789 --> 00:02:48,335 EPISODE ONE: LEAVE 37 00:02:48,961 --> 00:02:50,629 Unlike my friends 38 00:02:50,713 --> 00:02:53,173 I wasn't in the USA when it came out 39 00:02:53,299 --> 00:02:56,093 that Jeff Dahmer had been arrested. 40 00:02:57,344 --> 00:02:58,596 I was in Europe. 41 00:02:58,679 --> 00:03:02,975 I had a long train journey ahead of me and bought myself a newspaper. 42 00:03:03,058 --> 00:03:06,353 Inside was a photo of a house. 43 00:03:06,437 --> 00:03:07,855 That struck me, 44 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,358 because I thought to myself: “This is the Dahmers’ house. 45 00:03:11,442 --> 00:03:15,613 Why is there a photo of it? in this newspaper?" 46 00:03:18,949 --> 00:03:21,368 Under the photo it said: 47 00:03:21,493 --> 00:03:26,123 "The house where Mr. Dahmer committed his first murder." 48 00:03:27,416 --> 00:03:28,876 And I thought 49 00:03:28,959 --> 00:03:30,836 {\an8}Jeff's dad would have killed someone. 50 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:33,088 {\an8}VIDEO RECORDINGS OF THE DAHMER FAMILY 51 00:03:33,213 --> 00:03:35,257 Then I read the first paragraph 52 00:03:35,382 --> 00:03:38,969 and had the feeling I sink into my seat. 53 00:03:39,053 --> 00:03:44,016 I had the feeling I fall through the floor of the train, 54 00:03:44,099 --> 00:03:45,893 down to the tracks. 55 00:03:49,605 --> 00:03:53,943 I couldn't believe it that was simply unimaginable. 56 00:03:54,526 --> 00:03:58,572 How did that happen? What was going on there? Why did he kill these men? 57 00:03:58,697 --> 00:04:00,866 You just couldn't believe it. 58 00:04:00,950 --> 00:04:03,744 Something like that was incomprehensible. 59 00:04:04,954 --> 00:04:07,748 That was really difficult. 60 00:04:19,677 --> 00:04:22,596 My name is Mike Kukral. 61 00:04:22,721 --> 00:04:25,683 Jeffrey Dahmer was at school a classmate of mine. 62 00:04:25,766 --> 00:04:31,105 Since seventh grade, 1972, at Eastview Junior High School. 63 00:04:31,230 --> 00:04:33,232 I was 13 years old then. 64 00:04:36,485 --> 00:04:39,279 I grew up in Richfield, Ohio. 65 00:04:39,363 --> 00:04:41,448 This is next to Bath. 66 00:04:41,573 --> 00:04:43,951 Around 50 kilometers from Cleveland. 67 00:04:44,284 --> 00:04:47,079 The Dahmers lived in Bath, I lived in Richfield. 68 00:04:47,162 --> 00:04:50,958 But we all went to the same high school. 69 00:04:55,170 --> 00:04:57,923 I remember the area, where Jeff grew up. 70 00:04:59,049 --> 00:05:00,217 A beautiful area. 71 00:05:00,342 --> 00:05:03,345 This includes the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, 72 00:05:03,429 --> 00:05:05,556 the only national park in Ohio. 73 00:05:07,016 --> 00:05:09,935 I knew the Dahmers' house is very good. 74 00:05:10,019 --> 00:05:14,023 My piano teacher lived there before the Dahmers moved in. 75 00:05:14,773 --> 00:05:18,652 It was a modern house from the 1950s. 76 00:05:18,736 --> 00:05:20,362 A great house, it's still standing. 77 00:05:20,446 --> 00:05:22,698 It was surrounded by forest on a slope. 78 00:05:24,742 --> 00:05:26,785 We were all 12, 13 years old. 79 00:05:27,286 --> 00:05:30,122 In seventh grade I met Jeff Dahmer. 80 00:05:30,205 --> 00:05:32,374 He was sitting at a table in the library. 81 00:05:32,499 --> 00:05:33,500 He was always reading. 82 00:05:33,625 --> 00:05:36,837 He was that age a very shy boy. 83 00:05:36,962 --> 00:05:39,173 But I talked to him and greeted him, 84 00:05:39,298 --> 00:05:40,549 asked what he was reading. 85 00:05:43,343 --> 00:05:47,848 He liked reading fantasy books, things like that. 86 00:05:48,599 --> 00:05:53,353 He held the paperbacks always very close to his face. 87 00:05:53,437 --> 00:05:54,855 I remember that. 88 00:05:58,484 --> 00:06:00,694 In junior high school 89 00:06:00,819 --> 00:06:06,366 Young people come in one very difficult age together. 90 00:06:07,076 --> 00:06:10,496 Suddenly you hit to so many others. 91 00:06:10,579 --> 00:06:14,374 You are no longer a child but not yet a real teenager either. 92 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:16,251 You are in between. 93 00:06:16,376 --> 00:06:19,546 And Jeff seemed like a loner. 94 00:06:19,630 --> 00:06:22,716 But he already has participated in some activities. 95 00:06:30,724 --> 00:06:34,228 What do you like most? done with me? 96 00:06:34,311 --> 00:06:35,896 Oh, played tennis. 97 00:06:35,979 --> 00:06:38,023 Fishing in the pond. 98 00:06:38,107 --> 00:06:39,733 Let me think. 99 00:06:39,817 --> 00:06:41,985 What have you didn't like it at all? 100 00:06:42,069 --> 00:06:43,612 Homework. 101 00:06:45,697 --> 00:06:47,116 Yes? 102 00:06:48,325 --> 00:06:50,619 Jeff's dad, Mr. Dahmer, as we called him, 103 00:06:50,702 --> 00:06:53,664 came to school events. 104 00:06:54,373 --> 00:06:56,792 He came to a school band concert. 105 00:06:56,917 --> 00:06:59,419 And of course to the tennis tournaments. 106 00:06:59,503 --> 00:07:03,215 I figured: "Oh, there's Jeff's dad." 107 00:07:04,216 --> 00:07:06,927 He was just one of the fathers. 108 00:07:07,010 --> 00:07:10,222 At that age you pay attention not particularly on other parents. 109 00:07:11,765 --> 00:07:14,560 But back then, many fathers were quiet. 110 00:07:14,643 --> 00:07:19,731 They weren't that committed back then at school like today. 111 00:07:19,815 --> 00:07:22,609 They worked and went home. 112 00:07:23,068 --> 00:07:26,780 They had them back then not seen as often as today. 113 00:07:27,990 --> 00:07:31,785 I only found out later that he was a chemist. 114 00:07:33,954 --> 00:07:36,373 I don't think so that they were close. 115 00:07:36,456 --> 00:07:40,169 His father was interested what his son did. 116 00:07:40,294 --> 00:07:44,047 But he wasn't the guy for lots of hugs. 117 00:07:44,131 --> 00:07:47,301 In that respect it wasn't a close relationship. 118 00:07:48,302 --> 00:07:51,138 Jeff's mother I didn't know at all. 119 00:07:53,599 --> 00:07:56,393 {\an8}What's wrong with Joyce favorite thing to do? 120 00:07:56,476 --> 00:07:58,478 {\an8}Oh, think about it. 121 00:07:59,646 --> 00:08:03,984 {\an8}I guess just from school come home. 122 00:08:04,693 --> 00:08:06,153 And what didn't you like? 123 00:08:06,236 --> 00:08:07,529 What not? 124 00:08:07,654 --> 00:08:10,657 {\an8}- I know this is difficult for you. - The arguments. 125 00:08:18,081 --> 00:08:22,002 {\an8}My name is Dan Craft, I was an FBI agent for 31 years. 126 00:08:22,085 --> 00:08:25,214 I only have one at the FBI Acts of violence dealt with. 127 00:08:25,339 --> 00:08:26,715 Violent crime. 128 00:08:28,717 --> 00:08:32,638 Jeff told me that his father Lionel 129 00:08:32,721 --> 00:08:34,640 had a doctorate in chemistry. 130 00:08:34,723 --> 00:08:36,141 He was brilliant. 131 00:08:36,225 --> 00:08:38,685 But he wasn't there for him. 132 00:08:38,810 --> 00:08:41,813 When he was little, was he perhaps present, 133 00:08:41,897 --> 00:08:44,358 but emotional he wasn't there for him. 134 00:08:44,483 --> 00:08:47,152 And he traveled a lot, was often gone. 135 00:08:47,236 --> 00:08:49,196 Jeff had no role model. 136 00:08:51,073 --> 00:08:52,824 I know I called. 137 00:08:53,283 --> 00:08:55,077 I don't know exactly anymore. 138 00:08:55,202 --> 00:08:58,705 Maybe I was traveling for work, 139 00:08:59,706 --> 00:09:01,583 in another city. 140 00:09:03,252 --> 00:09:07,381 His mother had many psychological and emotional problems 141 00:09:07,506 --> 00:09:08,924 and was an alcoholic. 142 00:09:09,007 --> 00:09:11,885 She didn't care about Jeff. 143 00:09:13,011 --> 00:09:15,722 I don't know what I did. 144 00:09:16,181 --> 00:09:19,601 I don't know why she was so bitter. 145 00:09:25,774 --> 00:09:29,444 Jeff had a little brother, David. 146 00:09:29,569 --> 00:09:32,406 Jeff despised David, 147 00:09:32,489 --> 00:09:35,784 because David was his mother's favorite. 148 00:09:35,909 --> 00:09:37,828 She showed him no love. 149 00:09:40,247 --> 00:09:43,375 That hurt him. 150 00:09:47,296 --> 00:09:50,048 He had the feeling that he was unimportant. 151 00:09:50,549 --> 00:09:53,218 That can have a big impact on you. 152 00:09:54,011 --> 00:09:57,431 Especially a child in development. 153 00:09:57,556 --> 00:10:01,226 If you think, that your mother doesn't love you, 154 00:10:01,310 --> 00:10:04,313 that can be bad. 155 00:10:07,441 --> 00:10:09,651 Why didn't I know about this? 156 00:10:09,776 --> 00:10:12,237 I don't think Joyce... 157 00:10:12,321 --> 00:10:15,449 Joyce and I didn't know anything about it. 158 00:10:16,283 --> 00:10:20,287 Maybe we were so busy 159 00:10:20,370 --> 00:10:23,415 {\an8}with health issues and psychological problems 160 00:10:23,498 --> 00:10:27,044 {\an8}and our quarrels, that we didn't see 161 00:10:27,127 --> 00:10:29,671 what we should have seen. 162 00:10:37,471 --> 00:10:40,140 At the beginning he was a good student. 163 00:10:40,223 --> 00:10:42,684 He did well and worked hard at school. 164 00:10:42,768 --> 00:10:46,313 He probably wanted to do that impress his parents. 165 00:10:47,689 --> 00:10:51,193 Collecting in the forest was great. We did that together. 166 00:10:51,318 --> 00:10:54,237 We had fun with the chickens and the lambs. 167 00:10:54,363 --> 00:10:57,157 We have long hikes made with hiking sticks. 168 00:10:57,282 --> 00:10:57,991 True. 169 00:10:58,075 --> 00:11:01,078 And the many moths, who came to the window. 170 00:11:01,161 --> 00:11:02,371 We caught them. 171 00:11:02,454 --> 00:11:04,998 {\an8}- We had a collection. - That was fun. 172 00:11:05,082 --> 00:11:06,208 Yes. 173 00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:09,836 We had Biology class together. 174 00:11:09,961 --> 00:11:11,505 He liked that very much. 175 00:11:11,588 --> 00:11:14,966 Jeff was in biology to the better students. 176 00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:16,343 He was interested 177 00:11:16,718 --> 00:11:20,180 when we dissected frogs and things like that. 178 00:11:21,556 --> 00:11:26,019 I always thought that he's studying medicine or something. 179 00:11:26,144 --> 00:11:28,688 Because he liked biology. 180 00:11:31,566 --> 00:11:36,446 In his free time he went fishing with friends, 181 00:11:36,571 --> 00:11:38,281 at a small pond. 182 00:11:38,365 --> 00:11:40,909 You should the fish throw it back in. 183 00:11:42,035 --> 00:11:46,832 But Jeff pulled out a knife and cut open a fish. 184 00:11:46,915 --> 00:11:49,626 The others asked what that was about. 185 00:11:49,709 --> 00:11:52,587 And he said he wanted to see what it looks like from the inside. 186 00:11:55,549 --> 00:11:58,051 That's just how Jeff Dahmer was. 187 00:12:02,597 --> 00:12:06,935 July 22, 1991 188 00:12:08,603 --> 00:12:12,357 In 1991 I was a police reporter at the Milwaukee Journal, 189 00:12:12,441 --> 00:12:13,817 the newspaper. 190 00:12:14,860 --> 00:12:18,196 About police and courts to report 191 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,490 {\an8}in a major daily newspaper 192 00:12:20,615 --> 00:12:22,284 {\an8}was my absolute dream job. 193 00:12:22,409 --> 00:12:25,537 I'm at my job called in sick as a waitress, 194 00:12:25,620 --> 00:12:27,789 so that I can be on patrol could go along. 195 00:12:29,207 --> 00:12:30,959 I really wanted to learn something. 196 00:12:31,084 --> 00:12:34,671 For me that was the best position in the editorial department. 197 00:12:34,754 --> 00:12:36,590 Because you can look behind the scenes. 198 00:12:36,673 --> 00:12:41,928 You see, how the authorities really work. 199 00:12:43,305 --> 00:12:47,309 I listened to the radio and drove to crime scenes. 200 00:12:47,434 --> 00:12:51,980 Besides, I drove the police stations in the district. 201 00:12:52,105 --> 00:12:55,609 I got to know the officials and introduced myself. 202 00:12:55,692 --> 00:12:58,904 So that they knew who I am, when I showed up at the crime scene. 203 00:12:59,488 --> 00:13:00,989 I would say, 204 00:13:01,072 --> 00:13:03,450 that I am a confidant was for her. 205 00:13:04,910 --> 00:13:08,663 But I was also very annoying, because I was a reporter. 206 00:13:08,788 --> 00:13:10,499 And I wanted to find out more. 207 00:13:10,624 --> 00:13:14,419 You're like a two-year-old. Children ask “why” all the time. 208 00:13:14,503 --> 00:13:16,338 I always wanted to know that too. 209 00:13:16,421 --> 00:13:19,508 I always wanted to know what were the reasons for this, 210 00:13:19,633 --> 00:13:22,010 that the police did what they did. 211 00:13:22,135 --> 00:13:25,472 I think, that was a positive aspect, 212 00:13:25,555 --> 00:13:27,349 but also contributed to 213 00:13:27,474 --> 00:13:31,811 that I like for her was an annoying little sister. 214 00:13:34,898 --> 00:13:37,734 The police made the discovery shortly before midnight. 215 00:13:37,817 --> 00:13:39,402 In the house with social housing 216 00:13:39,486 --> 00:13:42,989 the suspect lived alone in a second floor apartment. 217 00:13:47,077 --> 00:13:50,664 I was called. On the landline at my house. 218 00:13:51,373 --> 00:13:56,545 Shortly before midnight on July 22, 1991. 219 00:13:56,628 --> 00:13:58,713 A police officer said to me: 220 00:13:58,838 --> 00:14:04,344 "We have a man here, who has body parts in the apartment." 221 00:14:07,722 --> 00:14:08,807 So I went there. 222 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,228 I didn't know what I should think of it. 223 00:14:16,356 --> 00:14:21,653 Milwaukee is a beautiful, quiet midwestern town, 224 00:14:21,736 --> 00:14:25,407 in which, and that's what they say in such cases always, 225 00:14:25,532 --> 00:14:26,825 nothing ever happened. 226 00:14:28,868 --> 00:14:32,122 But like in many big cities There are also unsafe corners here. 227 00:14:34,583 --> 00:14:37,002 Dahmer lived in a neighborhood 228 00:14:37,085 --> 00:14:39,588 that was considered dangerous. 229 00:14:43,133 --> 00:14:45,260 When I arrived at the scene, 230 00:14:45,385 --> 00:14:47,387 There weren't that many police there yet. 231 00:14:47,470 --> 00:14:49,848 It was still very early. 232 00:14:49,931 --> 00:14:54,853 There was a policeman in the hallway, who I knew well. 233 00:14:54,936 --> 00:14:59,399 He stood there with the back of his head leaning against the wall. 234 00:14:59,482 --> 00:15:02,944 He held his ground with your hands your head. 235 00:15:05,113 --> 00:15:08,199 I arrived at the door to Dahmer's apartment. 236 00:15:08,283 --> 00:15:10,285 It was apartment number 213. 237 00:15:10,410 --> 00:15:14,914 I stepped over the threshold and looked inside. 238 00:15:16,249 --> 00:15:19,628 She didn't look like a torture chamber, 239 00:15:19,711 --> 00:15:22,047 she wasn't unusual. 240 00:15:22,130 --> 00:15:24,674 It looked like the apartment of a single person. 241 00:15:25,550 --> 00:15:29,304 But it smelled funny. 242 00:15:29,429 --> 00:15:33,433 Something chemical. 243 00:15:35,393 --> 00:15:39,522 As if something is rotting. 244 00:15:39,648 --> 00:15:41,441 I can't describe it. 245 00:15:42,776 --> 00:15:46,237 But it was nothing what I could have classified. 246 00:15:48,865 --> 00:15:50,325 Then there was the bedroom. 247 00:15:50,450 --> 00:15:55,789 The bedroom was the torture chamber. 248 00:15:59,876 --> 00:16:04,381 There were Polaroid photos of victims, who had been dismembered. 249 00:16:06,716 --> 00:16:08,468 There was a barrel, 250 00:16:08,551 --> 00:16:12,347 in which Dahmer tried to destroy the bones. 251 00:16:14,015 --> 00:16:18,186 There was a cupboard, in which a skeleton hung. 252 00:16:21,981 --> 00:16:26,695 I know there are commissioners and police officers, 253 00:16:26,778 --> 00:16:29,823 those that evening worked at the crime scene, 254 00:16:29,906 --> 00:16:32,617 not at all anymore talk about it. 255 00:16:32,701 --> 00:16:37,163 Because they've seen things that they won't let go of. 256 00:16:41,751 --> 00:16:43,670 My name is Michael Dubis. 257 00:16:45,463 --> 00:16:47,882 After 34 years as a police officer 258 00:16:47,966 --> 00:16:52,429 I'm speaking now for the first time in front of cameras 259 00:16:52,554 --> 00:16:55,098 about Jeffrey Dahmer's apartment. 260 00:16:55,974 --> 00:16:57,726 {\an8}About what I saw. 261 00:16:57,851 --> 00:16:59,894 {\an8}What I went through. 262 00:17:01,187 --> 00:17:04,023 It's simple the right time. 263 00:17:08,445 --> 00:17:11,823 When I came into the apartment, I looked at the officer. 264 00:17:11,906 --> 00:17:14,242 He said, "Look in the fridge." 265 00:17:16,244 --> 00:17:17,579 I opened the door. 266 00:17:17,662 --> 00:17:21,082 There stood a human head in a small box 267 00:17:21,207 --> 00:17:23,376 at the bottom of the fridge. 268 00:17:26,379 --> 00:17:28,882 I was a young man, 31 years old. 269 00:17:28,965 --> 00:17:31,676 I had two years of experience in the homicide squad. 270 00:17:33,011 --> 00:17:35,388 To see something like that 271 00:17:35,472 --> 00:17:38,933 and imagine how you can do something like that to someone 272 00:17:39,058 --> 00:17:40,602 was a shock for me. 273 00:17:43,146 --> 00:17:45,273 As we searched the apartment, 274 00:17:45,398 --> 00:17:48,985 came in every drawer and in every box 275 00:17:50,153 --> 00:17:54,699 something even worse and something more horrifying comes to light. 276 00:17:55,950 --> 00:18:00,622 There was a small filing cabinet with two drawers. 277 00:18:03,708 --> 00:18:06,503 In the first drawer 278 00:18:06,628 --> 00:18:08,797 lay three human skulls. 279 00:18:11,424 --> 00:18:13,718 Human bones lay there. 280 00:18:13,802 --> 00:18:17,013 Big, long leg bones, 281 00:18:17,138 --> 00:18:18,306 ribs, 282 00:18:18,431 --> 00:18:19,432 everything possible. 283 00:18:21,309 --> 00:18:24,145 In the bedroom we discovered 284 00:18:24,270 --> 00:18:27,649 a closet opposite the bedroom door. 285 00:18:30,318 --> 00:18:33,947 We opened it and inside lay two more skulls. 286 00:18:40,411 --> 00:18:44,666 And a big soup pot. 287 00:18:44,791 --> 00:18:48,336 We pulled out the pot and took off the lid. 288 00:18:52,924 --> 00:18:54,717 There were two human hands in it, 289 00:18:54,843 --> 00:18:58,847 which obviously came from an African American. 290 00:18:59,389 --> 00:19:01,808 And a pubic area with a penis. 291 00:19:06,229 --> 00:19:10,358 Overall I have in the apartment 84 Polaroid photos confiscated. 292 00:19:13,319 --> 00:19:14,863 In the photos you could see 293 00:19:14,988 --> 00:19:18,032 that of a man the stomach had been cut open. 294 00:19:18,825 --> 00:19:24,706 A man was hanging from the shower head in the bathroom. 295 00:19:25,832 --> 00:19:27,292 Obviously dead. 296 00:19:30,211 --> 00:19:33,965 They were all people who had been murdered. 297 00:19:38,136 --> 00:19:42,640 It was just terrible to be in this place. 298 00:19:53,985 --> 00:19:56,029 The investigation progressed, 299 00:19:57,030 --> 00:19:59,741 and at some point the sun rose. 300 00:19:59,866 --> 00:20:02,827 Around five in the morning the phone started ringing. 301 00:20:05,288 --> 00:20:09,584 I have called you many times 302 00:20:09,667 --> 00:20:12,086 on July 22nd. 303 00:20:12,211 --> 00:20:14,714 The bell rang and rang and rang. 304 00:20:15,256 --> 00:20:17,008 I called again and again. 305 00:20:17,091 --> 00:20:21,387 I have it every time let it ring for a very long time. 306 00:20:22,305 --> 00:20:23,598 I was wondering. 307 00:20:23,681 --> 00:20:26,517 This man lived alone, 308 00:20:26,601 --> 00:20:29,604 there were no clues on a family. 309 00:20:30,146 --> 00:20:31,898 I picked up the phone. 310 00:20:33,399 --> 00:20:35,234 "Commissioner Dubis here." 311 00:20:36,361 --> 00:20:39,572 He said, I still remember it exactly: 312 00:20:39,656 --> 00:20:42,367 "We're investigating here in a murder case." 313 00:20:45,328 --> 00:20:50,583 Lionel Dahmer had Jeffrey's house seen on the news. 314 00:20:50,667 --> 00:20:52,877 He wanted to ask if he was okay. 315 00:20:52,961 --> 00:20:56,464 I asked, "How is that... 316 00:20:57,340 --> 00:21:00,259 What does this have to do with Jeff?" That's what I asked. 317 00:21:01,803 --> 00:21:05,682 I assured Lionel that his son is alive 318 00:21:05,807 --> 00:21:07,225 and is not injured. 319 00:21:08,267 --> 00:21:09,894 I couldn't tell him anything more. 320 00:21:09,978 --> 00:21:14,107 I said that he being interrogated at the police station. 321 00:21:15,233 --> 00:21:19,320 He meant, someone would call me back. 322 00:21:23,616 --> 00:21:27,996 {\an8}I was devastated. I want to be completely honest. 323 00:21:28,079 --> 00:21:31,124 It's not easy for me. 324 00:21:31,207 --> 00:21:33,459 But I won't cry. 325 00:21:34,002 --> 00:21:36,295 {\an8}I just want that you know that, Jeff. 326 00:21:36,379 --> 00:21:37,505 OK? 327 00:21:41,884 --> 00:21:44,387 The suspect was already in custody. 328 00:21:44,512 --> 00:21:48,516 We had to find out who all the victims were. 329 00:21:49,475 --> 00:21:52,145 We depended on his help. 330 00:21:53,813 --> 00:21:57,859 31-year-old Jeffrey Dahmer cooperates with the investigators, 331 00:21:57,984 --> 00:22:01,362 about the victims in his apartment to identify. 332 00:22:03,573 --> 00:22:08,119 I was a lieutenant at the Milwaukee Criminal Investigation Department. 333 00:22:08,745 --> 00:22:12,832 {\an8}I was assigned to the homicide squad, 334 00:22:12,915 --> 00:22:15,626 as Jeffrey Dahmer Was arrested in 1991. 335 00:22:20,381 --> 00:22:22,216 He really wanted to testify. 336 00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:25,219 He has given us this from the beginning made clear. 337 00:22:25,344 --> 00:22:29,057 He wanted to tell us everything. 338 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,897 He said, he was tired of playing hide and seek, 339 00:22:36,022 --> 00:22:37,148 the lies. 340 00:22:37,231 --> 00:22:39,233 He wanted to clear the air. 341 00:22:39,317 --> 00:22:41,402 He knew that he had been caught. 342 00:22:43,905 --> 00:22:46,365 The location should calm down first. 343 00:22:46,449 --> 00:22:47,241 I know. 344 00:22:47,366 --> 00:22:51,704 For me that was also a big blow. 345 00:22:51,954 --> 00:22:54,999 Yes, I understand that. 346 00:22:56,375 --> 00:22:59,295 Jeffrey Dahmer came into the conversation 347 00:22:59,420 --> 00:23:02,882 like a completely ordinary person. 348 00:23:02,965 --> 00:23:05,009 He spoke very quietly. 349 00:23:07,303 --> 00:23:09,764 He could talk well, his grammar was good. 350 00:23:09,889 --> 00:23:11,682 He remembered very well. 351 00:23:11,766 --> 00:23:15,019 He has everything told in great detail. 352 00:23:15,103 --> 00:23:17,939 He has these things explained very matter-of-factly. 353 00:23:20,316 --> 00:23:22,985 He was asked about his childhood. 354 00:23:23,111 --> 00:23:27,406 It was also about things that he had done at school. 355 00:23:27,490 --> 00:23:29,784 The information was all correct. 356 00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:31,369 He was able to 357 00:23:31,452 --> 00:23:34,205 Events from 13 years ago 358 00:23:34,288 --> 00:23:36,290 to be reproduced in detail. 359 00:23:41,045 --> 00:23:45,341 DAHMER IN THE TENTH GRADE THE HIGH SCHOOL 360 00:23:45,466 --> 00:23:48,553 In high school he was over 1.80 meters tall, 361 00:23:48,636 --> 00:23:50,972 had broad shoulders and blonde hair. 362 00:23:51,055 --> 00:23:52,640 He did strength training 363 00:23:52,723 --> 00:23:54,392 {\an8}and played tennis. 364 00:23:54,475 --> 00:23:56,936 {\an8}He wasn't one, who had everything to offer. 365 00:23:59,105 --> 00:24:05,111 All social contacts played out back in high school. 366 00:24:05,194 --> 00:24:07,488 There wasn't much to do at home. 367 00:24:07,613 --> 00:24:11,284 And in our area you could Don't just run to friends' houses. 368 00:24:11,367 --> 00:24:15,329 You had to go along or let someone drive you. 369 00:24:16,664 --> 00:24:19,834 In the Dahmers' house I wasn't that often. 370 00:24:19,959 --> 00:24:22,003 But I was there a few times. 371 00:24:23,212 --> 00:24:24,672 I was never really inside. 372 00:24:24,755 --> 00:24:28,092 But I knew that his parents had a lot of arguments. 373 00:24:28,176 --> 00:24:31,762 That wasn't a house where you met up with friends. 374 00:24:31,846 --> 00:24:34,182 Other children lived on the same street 375 00:24:34,307 --> 00:24:38,311 and told you his parents could hear arguing. 376 00:24:38,394 --> 00:24:41,147 That there always shouted and shouted. 377 00:24:41,230 --> 00:24:45,693 To a place like that you don't want to go as a teenager. 378 00:24:48,946 --> 00:24:52,241 She has her anger taken out on you, Jeff? 379 00:24:52,366 --> 00:24:54,911 - You know what she was like... - Yes. 380 00:24:55,036 --> 00:24:57,038 ...when she was really angry. 381 00:24:57,163 --> 00:24:59,248 - I know. - Up to white heat. 382 00:24:59,373 --> 00:25:02,877 I think I know the answer. But I wanted to ask you this. 383 00:25:03,002 --> 00:25:07,715 You know exactly what I'm talking about, right? 384 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:08,799 Oh yes. 385 00:25:08,883 --> 00:25:12,637 If she didn't like something, I got her anger. 386 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:13,971 Yes. 387 00:25:14,055 --> 00:25:18,726 Now take this incident times a thousand, 388 00:25:18,851 --> 00:25:20,978 then you know what I've been through. 389 00:25:21,062 --> 00:25:23,606 Yes, I know, I was there. I remember. 390 00:25:23,731 --> 00:25:25,942 - Yes. - I remember. 391 00:25:34,659 --> 00:25:40,248 In the tenth and eleventh grades Jeff Dahmer became a little more open. 392 00:25:40,331 --> 00:25:45,753 He did crazy things to get attention. 393 00:25:45,878 --> 00:25:47,922 That's why some of us have 394 00:25:48,047 --> 00:25:50,299 started with that... 395 00:25:50,424 --> 00:25:52,301 It wasn't anything official 396 00:25:52,426 --> 00:25:55,263 but we have each other referred to as the “Dahmer fan club”. 397 00:25:55,388 --> 00:25:58,933 We just have each other watched his follies. 398 00:25:59,016 --> 00:26:00,851 That was in high school. 399 00:26:00,935 --> 00:26:03,437 ninth and tenth grades, I would say. 400 00:26:05,398 --> 00:26:08,025 He always made us laugh, he was funny. 401 00:26:08,442 --> 00:26:13,447 He was very good at people imitate behind her back. 402 00:26:13,572 --> 00:26:16,867 But he did too strange movements, 403 00:26:16,951 --> 00:26:19,287 to get attention. 404 00:26:19,370 --> 00:26:21,622 We called it "doing the Dahmer", 405 00:26:21,706 --> 00:26:24,250 when he did crazy things like that. 406 00:26:26,961 --> 00:26:29,797 I was in high school sometimes at my locker. 407 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,591 It was very loud locker doors slammed, 408 00:26:32,675 --> 00:26:36,721 everyone was bustling around and ran to class. 409 00:26:36,804 --> 00:26:41,058 Jeff Dahmer came down the hall and leaned towards me. 410 00:26:41,142 --> 00:26:44,520 He laid for five seconds head on my chest 411 00:26:44,645 --> 00:26:46,939 and said: “I just wanted to hear your pulse. 412 00:26:48,774 --> 00:26:50,985 I just wanted to check whether you're still alive." 413 00:26:51,986 --> 00:26:53,821 Then he kept running. 414 00:26:54,989 --> 00:26:59,160 He could do things like that and that was funny. 415 00:26:59,243 --> 00:27:03,456 He is with such actions always got away with it. 416 00:27:09,837 --> 00:27:12,923 My name is Eric Hickey, I am a criminal psychologist. 417 00:27:14,842 --> 00:27:16,677 {\an8}There are many young men like Dahmer, 418 00:27:16,802 --> 00:27:18,012 who are different. 419 00:27:18,095 --> 00:27:20,306 But he had little self-confidence. 420 00:27:21,057 --> 00:27:23,434 So Jeffrey was the class clown at school. 421 00:27:23,517 --> 00:27:24,852 He wanted attention. 422 00:27:24,977 --> 00:27:26,937 He wanted to be liked. 423 00:27:28,022 --> 00:27:32,026 But he was strange. He realized he didn't belong there. 424 00:27:32,151 --> 00:27:35,780 That's why he was lonely. And probably very sad. 425 00:27:38,074 --> 00:27:41,702 I have his mother met and interviewed, Joyce. 426 00:27:41,786 --> 00:27:45,664 I still remember what she did in the living room said to me first. 427 00:27:45,748 --> 00:27:47,375 She said: 428 00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:50,544 "Jeffrey never wanted to hurt anyone. 429 00:27:50,628 --> 00:27:53,547 He killed her but he never wanted to hurt them." 430 00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:59,303 I never knew you killed animals. 431 00:27:59,387 --> 00:28:00,221 I haven't. 432 00:28:00,346 --> 00:28:04,392 {\an8}I have a bow and arrow aimed at a setter, 433 00:28:04,517 --> 00:28:05,851 {\an8}whom I had attracted. 434 00:28:05,935 --> 00:28:08,562 {\an8}But when he met me with his brown eyes... 435 00:28:08,646 --> 00:28:10,898 He had such big, trusting eyes. 436 00:28:11,023 --> 00:28:12,858 I couldn't do it then. 437 00:28:19,573 --> 00:28:21,492 As he grew older, 438 00:28:21,575 --> 00:28:26,163 he slowly realized that he was gay. 439 00:28:26,247 --> 00:28:28,332 He had 440 00:28:28,416 --> 00:28:31,168 {\an8}sexual fantasies. 441 00:28:31,252 --> 00:28:32,920 He liked muscular men. 442 00:28:34,505 --> 00:28:37,383 When did you have fantasies about... 443 00:28:37,925 --> 00:28:39,927 When did you think about men? 444 00:28:40,010 --> 00:28:43,973 Well, since I did in that regard became active. 445 00:28:44,098 --> 00:28:46,058 I don't know why that is. 446 00:28:46,142 --> 00:28:49,937 I just know that it is for some reason that's just how it is. 447 00:28:50,020 --> 00:28:52,523 I understand that not better than others either. 448 00:29:00,781 --> 00:29:02,950 He tried to do things 449 00:29:03,075 --> 00:29:06,162 the other teenager have also done. 450 00:29:06,287 --> 00:29:09,457 He had, for example a date for prom. 451 00:29:10,082 --> 00:29:13,127 The more he wanted to belong, the worse it got for him. 452 00:29:17,339 --> 00:29:19,300 He turned 453 00:29:19,425 --> 00:29:23,929 a very disturbing world, 454 00:29:24,013 --> 00:29:27,433 that he has in his head had created. 455 00:29:30,895 --> 00:29:33,564 I was wondering what was the first fantasy, 456 00:29:33,647 --> 00:29:35,483 that you can remember, 457 00:29:35,608 --> 00:29:39,153 which you yourself strange or found disturbing. 458 00:29:41,572 --> 00:29:46,118 When Jeffrey was in puberty, Of course he masturbated. 459 00:29:46,202 --> 00:29:48,704 He had fantasies. 460 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,875 They were probably very unusual. 461 00:29:54,543 --> 00:29:58,130 The first, what I can remember 462 00:29:58,214 --> 00:30:01,759 is my interest at a dead dog on the side of the road. 463 00:30:01,842 --> 00:30:04,428 I wanted to cut him open and see his insides. 464 00:30:05,638 --> 00:30:10,809 He then tried things that are not normal. 465 00:30:10,893 --> 00:30:13,687 For example, animals examined and thought of her. 466 00:30:15,231 --> 00:30:17,399 That was the first what do you remember? 467 00:30:17,525 --> 00:30:22,905 {\an8}That you look inside wanted to look at a dead animal? 468 00:30:23,030 --> 00:30:27,868 Yes, and that happened just further developed. 469 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,915 He has run over animals examined from the street. 470 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,710 Not only from a scientific point of view, but out of sexual interest. 471 00:30:36,835 --> 00:30:42,049 And then he got to these masturbates to roadkilled animals. 472 00:30:42,967 --> 00:30:45,469 - You rode around on your bike? - Yes. 473 00:30:45,553 --> 00:30:47,680 - And were you looking for dead animals? - Yes. 474 00:30:50,057 --> 00:30:52,142 He has picked up run-over animals, 475 00:30:52,601 --> 00:30:55,062 to examine their bodies. 476 00:30:55,145 --> 00:30:58,732 He did too examined her private parts. 477 00:30:58,857 --> 00:31:00,985 And that excited him. 478 00:31:02,778 --> 00:31:07,908 I have a skinned dog head stuck on a stick. 479 00:31:08,033 --> 00:31:11,245 A classmate thought that it was me 480 00:31:11,328 --> 00:31:13,497 {\an8}because it's nearby of my house was. 481 00:31:15,749 --> 00:31:20,588 As he went through this process, 482 00:31:20,671 --> 00:31:22,506 he had little self-confidence. 483 00:31:22,590 --> 00:31:24,758 He wanted to feel powerful. 484 00:31:24,883 --> 00:31:28,887 And to be powerful, he had to be in control. 485 00:31:34,184 --> 00:31:36,562 Jeffrey Dahmer was now developing 486 00:31:36,645 --> 00:31:40,566 to this monster, that he was at the end. 487 00:31:43,068 --> 00:31:47,281 His father tried by all means, 488 00:31:47,406 --> 00:31:49,908 to find out whether he had contributed to it. 489 00:31:50,993 --> 00:31:53,912 {\an8}I see parallels to my early childhood. 490 00:31:53,996 --> 00:31:54,872 Real? 491 00:31:54,955 --> 00:31:58,375 {\an8}Yes, you will find very interesting. 492 00:31:58,459 --> 00:32:00,252 Yes, I hope so. 493 00:32:00,336 --> 00:32:01,712 He didn't realize 494 00:32:01,795 --> 00:32:07,718 that his son became extremely dangerous. 495 00:32:08,469 --> 00:32:10,804 {\an8}Some things I never told you. 496 00:32:10,888 --> 00:32:12,473 {\an8}And no one else either. 497 00:32:12,598 --> 00:32:16,060 {\an8}There are very interesting parallels. 498 00:32:16,143 --> 00:32:19,146 {\an8}These thoughts are strange, You have to process that first. 499 00:32:19,730 --> 00:32:24,026 {\an8}No, I had it as a child strange thoughts too. 500 00:32:24,985 --> 00:32:27,821 {\an8}You're like me, Jeff. 501 00:32:36,246 --> 00:32:38,999 JULY 23, 1991 502 00:32:39,083 --> 00:32:42,586 Go to the Milwaukee Police Department numerous calls from families, 503 00:32:42,670 --> 00:32:46,340 who fear missing relatives could be among the victims. 504 00:32:49,093 --> 00:32:51,720 When the news came out that day, 505 00:32:51,845 --> 00:32:56,350 I was in the office called by relatives. 506 00:32:56,475 --> 00:33:00,229 {\an8}Each of these calls was played to Jeffrey Dahmer. 507 00:33:00,729 --> 00:33:02,773 "Does that mean anything to you? 508 00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:06,527 Could you have been there? Have you talked to the person?" 509 00:33:06,652 --> 00:33:09,863 {\an8}What were you thinking? when you heard about the murders? 510 00:33:09,947 --> 00:33:11,699 {\an8}I was thinking about my brother. 511 00:33:12,116 --> 00:33:13,617 {\an8}To my brother immediately. 512 00:33:16,245 --> 00:33:19,748 We have each other Missing person report viewed. 513 00:33:19,873 --> 00:33:24,128 We have with all parents and spoken to all wives. 514 00:33:24,211 --> 00:33:25,796 I don't want to think about it. 515 00:33:25,879 --> 00:33:27,214 I just want to believe 516 00:33:28,090 --> 00:33:31,093 {\an8}that he is somewhere, but doesn't call 517 00:33:31,218 --> 00:33:33,721 for some reason. 518 00:33:33,846 --> 00:33:37,057 He will let us know that he is somewhere and is still alive. 519 00:33:37,182 --> 00:33:40,811 These families everyone suffered greatly. 520 00:33:42,020 --> 00:33:45,232 children, women and girls, 521 00:33:45,357 --> 00:33:47,818 Men, grandmothers. 522 00:33:48,444 --> 00:33:51,238 All these families feel the same pain. 523 00:33:51,655 --> 00:33:54,658 {\an8}I constantly dream about Errol. 524 00:33:55,492 --> 00:33:58,579 - What kind of dreams? - He calls to me for help. 525 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,959 And every time I get to him, he disappears. 526 00:34:04,752 --> 00:34:06,253 All we could tell them was, 527 00:34:06,378 --> 00:34:10,591 that we because of the statements of the suspect 528 00:34:10,674 --> 00:34:13,594 and the objects from the apartment believe 529 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,724 that their relative could have been one of the victims. 530 00:34:18,807 --> 00:34:23,937 {\an8}No family and no relatives should have to go through this. 531 00:34:24,688 --> 00:34:28,108 We try to stay sane 532 00:34:28,233 --> 00:34:29,943 and to be strong. 533 00:34:30,027 --> 00:34:32,279 We want to be strong. 534 00:34:36,450 --> 00:34:41,663 DAHMER'S FINAL YEAR IN HIGH SCHOOL, 1977 535 00:34:42,164 --> 00:34:45,417 In our senior year has Jeff Dahmer 536 00:34:45,501 --> 00:34:47,252 distanced himself from all of us. 537 00:34:49,296 --> 00:34:53,467 We rarely saw him he didn't do anything with us. 538 00:34:53,592 --> 00:34:56,345 I would say he has drifted into his world. 539 00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:58,305 He was less sociable 540 00:34:58,388 --> 00:35:02,100 less committed, school was less important to him. 541 00:35:02,184 --> 00:35:05,896 I think senior year he failed many subjects. 542 00:35:05,979 --> 00:35:10,484 He graduated, but he didn't care about anything. 543 00:35:14,571 --> 00:35:18,242 I found out in my senior year 544 00:35:18,325 --> 00:35:20,327 that his parents got divorced. 545 00:35:23,205 --> 00:35:25,249 I remember the day when she left. 546 00:35:25,332 --> 00:35:27,459 Do you still know the broken water pump? 547 00:35:27,543 --> 00:35:29,503 Yes, it was always blocked. 548 00:35:29,586 --> 00:35:32,673 {\an8}This happened again, as she was about to leave. 549 00:35:32,798 --> 00:35:34,091 Then she became very angry. 550 00:35:34,174 --> 00:35:36,426 She was really angry. 551 00:35:36,510 --> 00:35:38,345 Because I couldn't fix them. 552 00:35:38,679 --> 00:35:40,848 {\an8}Angry, because you didn't fix them? 553 00:35:40,931 --> 00:35:43,851 Yes, that stopped her. 554 00:35:44,643 --> 00:35:47,062 I believe I then repaired it. 555 00:35:47,187 --> 00:35:49,231 - I know. - That wasn't a good day. 556 00:35:49,356 --> 00:35:50,524 Let's put it this way. 557 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,321 Lionel and Joyce eventually divorced. 558 00:35:57,698 --> 00:36:00,993 Joyce left with Jeff's little brother David. 559 00:36:01,076 --> 00:36:04,037 And Lionel moved into a motel. 560 00:36:05,789 --> 00:36:10,961 At first he was just emotional neglected teenager. 561 00:36:11,044 --> 00:36:13,338 And then he became actually left. 562 00:36:13,422 --> 00:36:16,383 He was left alone. 563 00:36:16,508 --> 00:36:21,889 For someone with such fantasies and thoughts like Jeffrey Dahmer 564 00:36:21,972 --> 00:36:24,516 Being alone is not a good idea. 565 00:36:25,851 --> 00:36:30,314 I'm sorry, that it was so bad for you. 566 00:36:30,397 --> 00:36:32,190 And all around your graduation. 567 00:36:32,274 --> 00:36:34,067 It was terrible, Jeff. 568 00:36:42,910 --> 00:36:45,746 I have Jeff for the last time seen at a party. 569 00:36:45,871 --> 00:36:50,000 He was having fun. There were no problems, and that was it. 570 00:36:51,293 --> 00:36:54,338 It was getting late, and I wanted to go home. 571 00:36:55,839 --> 00:36:59,927 But I drove on the side road, not down the main street. 572 00:37:00,052 --> 00:37:03,055 And I saw someone walking on the street. 573 00:37:03,138 --> 00:37:05,682 Up close I recognized that it was Jeff Dahmer. 574 00:37:07,059 --> 00:37:10,020 I stopped because he was still had a few kilometers ahead of him. 575 00:37:10,103 --> 00:37:13,106 I offered to take him with me. And he got in. 576 00:37:13,649 --> 00:37:16,109 I drove him to his house. 577 00:37:17,361 --> 00:37:21,782 The house was dark, but it was also after midnight. 578 00:37:21,865 --> 00:37:23,450 I thought everyone was asleep. 579 00:37:23,575 --> 00:37:26,703 I didn't realize that he lived there alone. 580 00:37:28,455 --> 00:37:30,457 So we sat in the car 581 00:37:30,582 --> 00:37:33,293 and chatted a little more. 582 00:37:33,418 --> 00:37:36,964 It was late. But he didn't have much to say. 583 00:37:37,798 --> 00:37:42,052 I then said, "See you around." 584 00:37:42,135 --> 00:37:43,720 And he got out 585 00:37:43,804 --> 00:37:46,723 and went into the dark house. 586 00:37:46,807 --> 00:37:50,978 That was the last time that I saw Jeff Dahmer. 587 00:37:52,562 --> 00:37:56,149 About that time he committed his first murder. 588 00:38:02,447 --> 00:38:05,075 {\an8}Jeff gave me told about his fantasies. 589 00:38:05,158 --> 00:38:07,244 {\an8}It was about killing 590 00:38:07,327 --> 00:38:09,162 and sex with the corpse. 591 00:38:10,998 --> 00:38:16,169 {\an8}Do you remember, when you saw that jogger? 592 00:38:16,294 --> 00:38:18,255 He had seen a jogger. 593 00:38:18,338 --> 00:38:23,135 And he dreamed of it to kill that person. 594 00:38:23,593 --> 00:38:27,639 Was the jogger big or small? 595 00:38:27,723 --> 00:38:32,352 He was maybe 1.80 meters tall and slim. 596 00:38:34,187 --> 00:38:37,691 {\an8}- And was he very hairy? - Yes. 597 00:38:40,193 --> 00:38:43,196 That was very impressive for him. 598 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:44,698 He told me 599 00:38:44,823 --> 00:38:49,202 that this again and again played out in front of his inner eye. 600 00:38:50,037 --> 00:38:51,872 Where did you first see him? 601 00:38:51,997 --> 00:38:55,625 I drove to the store and saw him. 602 00:38:55,709 --> 00:39:00,380 {\an8}Then the thought occurred to me, and I waited. 603 00:39:01,006 --> 00:39:04,384 Jeff ambushed him one day. 604 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,805 Then you came up with the idea to take a bat with you? 605 00:39:08,889 --> 00:39:10,432 - Yes. - You did that once? 606 00:39:10,557 --> 00:39:11,933 Yes, just once. 607 00:39:13,518 --> 00:39:16,897 And exactly on that day the jogger didn't come. 608 00:39:17,022 --> 00:39:18,523 Jeff was very disappointed 609 00:39:18,607 --> 00:39:21,485 because he has his imagination couldn't live it up. 610 00:39:21,568 --> 00:39:23,820 -Okay. - He didn't come. 611 00:39:23,904 --> 00:39:27,032 He didn't come. Then why did you give up? 612 00:39:27,115 --> 00:39:31,495 It was too dangerous, too public. 613 00:39:33,330 --> 00:39:37,876 His next fantasy was, to pick up a hitchhiker. 614 00:39:40,629 --> 00:39:43,590 Sometimes evil presents itself the perfect opportunity. 615 00:39:43,715 --> 00:39:46,426 Then there are fatalities. 616 00:39:50,180 --> 00:39:52,057 It was in 1978. 617 00:39:52,140 --> 00:39:54,768 Jeffrey Dahmer was 18 years old. 618 00:39:55,268 --> 00:39:58,980 He drove down the street and discovered a hitchhiker. 619 00:39:59,106 --> 00:40:01,441 That was Steven Hicks. 620 00:40:01,525 --> 00:40:04,569 He was on his way home from a rock concert. 621 00:40:05,445 --> 00:40:09,282 I came from the mall and wanted to drink beer at home. 622 00:40:09,407 --> 00:40:12,702 And he was standing there at the fire department. 623 00:40:12,786 --> 00:40:15,539 Steven Hicks joined Jeffrey Dahmer. 624 00:40:15,622 --> 00:40:18,583 That was a fatal decision. 625 00:40:28,510 --> 00:40:32,013 In this one week, when the circumstances were right, 626 00:40:32,139 --> 00:40:33,890 what do I see there? 627 00:40:33,974 --> 00:40:35,809 Just this once, only this week. 628 00:40:35,892 --> 00:40:38,019 I never have again seen someone like that. 629 00:40:38,145 --> 00:40:40,480 {\an8}That works, like someone planned this, right? 630 00:40:40,564 --> 00:40:42,691 {\an8}That was so strange what should I think? 631 00:40:42,816 --> 00:40:44,442 Someone or something? 632 00:40:46,153 --> 00:40:49,698 Jeffrey Dahmer took him with him and invited him 633 00:40:49,823 --> 00:40:51,825 to come home with him. 634 00:40:51,950 --> 00:40:53,994 And Steven Hicks went along. 635 00:40:55,328 --> 00:40:58,123 They sat there and talked. 636 00:40:58,206 --> 00:41:00,083 Jeffrey found him attractive. 637 00:41:01,668 --> 00:41:05,130 Then Steven Hicks wanted to leave. 638 00:41:07,132 --> 00:41:09,676 One thing is important here: 639 00:41:09,801 --> 00:41:12,095 When Steven wanted to leave, 640 00:41:12,179 --> 00:41:15,182 Jeff wanted will not be left again. 641 00:41:15,307 --> 00:41:18,393 His father and his mother had left him. 642 00:41:18,518 --> 00:41:21,188 He didn't want to that Steven does too. 643 00:41:21,271 --> 00:41:24,107 Besides, he had these killing fantasies. 644 00:41:24,191 --> 00:41:26,484 This all came together. 645 00:41:29,863 --> 00:41:32,532 Jeffrey took this, whatever was within reach. 646 00:41:32,616 --> 00:41:34,534 A dumbbell. 647 00:41:34,659 --> 00:41:37,787 He beat Steven Hicks with it on his head and killed him. 648 00:41:43,752 --> 00:41:46,129 Dahmer wanted Really kill Steven Hicks? 649 00:41:47,047 --> 00:41:48,048 That is unclear. 650 00:41:48,131 --> 00:41:49,007 But we know 651 00:41:49,090 --> 00:41:51,885 that he didn't want to that Steven Hicks is leaving. 652 00:41:53,053 --> 00:41:56,932 First he disposed of the body by Steven Hicks 653 00:41:57,057 --> 00:42:00,310 under the house in the crawl space. 654 00:42:01,144 --> 00:42:06,066 But at some point he dismembered the corpse 655 00:42:06,191 --> 00:42:10,654 and put the remains in trash bags. 656 00:42:10,737 --> 00:42:13,907 He put them in the car to drive them to the landfill. 657 00:42:16,868 --> 00:42:19,579 He was driving around in the middle of the night. 658 00:42:19,704 --> 00:42:23,708 He drove a little across the center line. 659 00:42:23,792 --> 00:42:25,752 He had been drinking with Steven Hicks. 660 00:42:26,628 --> 00:42:27,921 A police officer stopped him. 661 00:42:31,091 --> 00:42:36,429 That was the first of a few encounter with the police, 662 00:42:36,554 --> 00:42:39,099 where Jeffrey Dahmer got away successfully. 663 00:42:40,767 --> 00:42:43,103 The police officer saw the garbage bags in the back seat 664 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,272 and asked Jeff about it. 665 00:42:46,690 --> 00:42:49,609 He was very likeable. 666 00:42:49,734 --> 00:42:53,196 That's the thing about Jeffrey Dahmer and many other serial killers. 667 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,240 They are very likeable. 668 00:42:55,323 --> 00:42:59,119 And they set this property very manipulative. 669 00:43:01,288 --> 00:43:03,581 Jeff told about his parents' divorce 670 00:43:03,665 --> 00:43:05,583 and that he was left alone. 671 00:43:05,667 --> 00:43:10,255 He is depressed and sad and want to drive to the landfill. 672 00:43:10,338 --> 00:43:13,675 He had garbage with him that he wanted to get rid of, 673 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,260 to distract yourself. 674 00:43:15,343 --> 00:43:18,054 And the police officer believed him. 675 00:43:18,138 --> 00:43:21,224 He gave him a ticket and let him drive on. 676 00:43:25,895 --> 00:43:30,650 With the murder of Steven Hicks began Jeffrey Dahmer's journey 677 00:43:30,734 --> 00:43:33,737 to the serial killer. 678 00:43:34,696 --> 00:43:36,990 His father had no idea 679 00:43:37,073 --> 00:43:41,828 of the extent his son's problems. 680 00:43:42,954 --> 00:43:46,666 Have the fantasies strengthens over time? 681 00:43:46,750 --> 00:43:49,419 Yes, they have gotten stronger. 682 00:43:49,502 --> 00:43:53,840 {\an8}More and more powerful, that's how I would describe it. 683 00:43:53,923 --> 00:43:56,468 {\an8}They were always there, I didn't get rid of them. 684 00:43:56,551 --> 00:43:59,679 I was just obsessed with it. 685 00:44:00,930 --> 00:44:03,725 Jeffrey Dahmer was tormented by this. 686 00:44:03,850 --> 00:44:06,853 These fantasies were torture for him. 687 00:44:07,729 --> 00:44:10,857 But they just wouldn't go away. 688 00:44:16,738 --> 00:44:19,032 NEXT TIME 689 00:44:19,157 --> 00:44:21,201 My name is Billy Joe Capshaw. 690 00:44:21,326 --> 00:44:25,497 I joined the military in 1979. 691 00:44:25,580 --> 00:44:29,584 My roommate was Jeffrey Dahmer. 692 00:44:30,543 --> 00:44:32,545 I planned his death. 693 00:44:34,923 --> 00:44:38,718 I wanted to kill Jeffrey Dahmer. 694 00:44:38,802 --> 00:44:40,553 Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer. 695 00:44:43,848 --> 00:44:45,975 And now I feel guilty. 696 00:44:48,686 --> 00:44:53,191 I should have turned him off, before he lost control.