1 00:00:20,979 --> 00:00:24,819 For the longest time, I was so angry at God. 2 00:00:25,234 --> 00:00:29,744 I thought, "God let this happen. God did this to me." 3 00:00:30,155 --> 00:00:34,325 I was scared to death to talk about it, to experience it. 4 00:00:34,409 --> 00:00:38,249 To be able to accept the fact that this has happened. 5 00:00:39,831 --> 00:00:41,921 There's so many foggy memories, 6 00:00:42,417 --> 00:00:45,127 so many questions that I have about what happened, 7 00:00:45,712 --> 00:00:49,382 which is why I didn't, uh, say anything for so long. 8 00:00:50,133 --> 00:00:52,763 It was like I didn't really know what happened. 9 00:00:54,263 --> 00:00:56,393 And it wasn't something I wanted to know. 10 00:00:56,848 --> 00:00:58,478 I didn't wanna know any of it. 11 00:01:01,103 --> 00:01:05,483 But then one day, it was the late '90s 12 00:01:05,566 --> 00:01:11,486 and I had heard that, uh, Father Maskell was at Stella Maris 13 00:01:11,572 --> 00:01:13,742 hiding in the dementia ward. 14 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,540 So, I put on a bright red suit 15 00:01:17,828 --> 00:01:22,828 and I made an appointment with the admissions director. 16 00:01:23,417 --> 00:01:25,417 I told them I was looking for my father, 17 00:01:26,086 --> 00:01:28,416 and I went to see Father Maskell. 18 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:35,049 I paid attention to how she got in there, took note of all the buttons she pushed. 19 00:01:35,512 --> 00:01:38,812 We went in there and then I stood in front of his room. 20 00:01:39,182 --> 00:01:42,312 And I asked a lot of questions and just looked inside 21 00:01:42,394 --> 00:01:45,564 and saw that he was, uh, in the bed. 22 00:01:47,190 --> 00:01:50,570 After she had given me all the information and left me, 23 00:01:51,153 --> 00:01:54,663 I went in exactly how she had taken me through, 24 00:01:55,657 --> 00:01:56,737 back to his ward. 25 00:01:56,825 --> 00:02:00,615 It was supposed to be employees only, but I went back in. 26 00:02:02,539 --> 00:02:04,829 And, um, he was being wheeled out. 27 00:02:04,916 --> 00:02:08,916 Now, he's not that old, you know, he's 60. 28 00:02:09,838 --> 00:02:12,048 Early 60s, something like that. 29 00:02:12,132 --> 00:02:15,432 I went up to the caregiver and I said, "I know Father Maskell. 30 00:02:15,927 --> 00:02:19,007 Would it be okay if I said hello?" And she goes, "Sure." 31 00:02:20,766 --> 00:02:23,136 So, I get right up to his face 32 00:02:23,226 --> 00:02:25,476 and put my hands on his arms and everything 33 00:02:25,562 --> 00:02:28,822 and I said, "Father Maskell. It's Lil Hughes. 34 00:02:28,899 --> 00:02:32,239 Do you remember me? I used to work with you at Archbishop Keough." 35 00:02:33,362 --> 00:02:35,572 And I'm, like, about this far from his face. 36 00:02:37,032 --> 00:02:40,332 I probably would've had some things to say to him. 37 00:02:40,619 --> 00:02:43,789 I would've told him exactly what he had done to me, 38 00:02:44,247 --> 00:02:46,457 but there was no one home. 39 00:02:46,625 --> 00:02:50,295 No one. There was nothing in his eyes at all. 40 00:02:51,004 --> 00:02:52,964 All the evil gone, everything was gone. 41 00:02:53,298 --> 00:02:54,718 Something took care of it. 42 00:02:55,217 --> 00:03:01,467 His life was ending in his early 60s, which is premature and well-deserved. 43 00:04:03,326 --> 00:04:05,076 Okay. Well... 44 00:04:06,621 --> 00:04:10,501 Maskell's dead. So, that takes him out of the game. 45 00:04:11,501 --> 00:04:13,501 But I've never been convinced 46 00:04:13,587 --> 00:04:16,417 that Maskell was directly... 47 00:04:17,424 --> 00:04:20,144 hands on, involved in the murder. 48 00:04:21,261 --> 00:04:25,141 I didn't get the impression that... That Maskell was the kind of guy 49 00:04:26,016 --> 00:04:28,346 who would do that himself. 50 00:04:30,228 --> 00:04:34,018 Now, he might well have gotten somebody to do that. 51 00:04:34,107 --> 00:04:38,607 That struck me as a much more possible theory. 52 00:04:39,237 --> 00:04:43,367 Somewhere, some... Somebody knows something, as the saying goes and... 53 00:04:43,909 --> 00:04:44,909 But we don't know who. 54 00:04:48,246 --> 00:04:51,666 I got a text message, and a woman asked me to call her. 55 00:04:52,334 --> 00:04:56,714 And when I called her, she said, "My uncle killed Sister Cathy." 56 00:04:57,297 --> 00:04:59,047 So, of course, I was taken aback. 57 00:04:59,132 --> 00:05:02,682 And we talked some more and I asked her a lot of questions. 58 00:05:03,094 --> 00:05:08,434 And, um, we kind of were dubious at first. 59 00:05:09,309 --> 00:05:13,899 It sounds far-fetched, but the more people you begin to talk to, 60 00:05:14,064 --> 00:05:16,154 who tell you versions of the same story, 61 00:05:16,233 --> 00:05:19,653 who didn't know each other, the more you begin to think 62 00:05:19,820 --> 00:05:22,410 maybe there is more to this than we know. 63 00:05:35,210 --> 00:05:37,210 Family secrets are very dangerous. 64 00:05:38,213 --> 00:05:41,683 When you tell a child not to speak of something and they do, 65 00:05:41,758 --> 00:05:44,258 it makes it easier not to speak of other things. 66 00:05:47,347 --> 00:05:49,517 And then I think there's a... A point 67 00:05:49,599 --> 00:05:53,099 where the adults begin to believe the secrets. 68 00:06:01,152 --> 00:06:02,452 My mom was a drinker. 69 00:06:03,446 --> 00:06:05,566 And one night, we're sitting up really late 70 00:06:05,657 --> 00:06:07,697 and she had had a whole lot to drink. 71 00:06:08,159 --> 00:06:11,249 I did not drink, so I was sitting there listening to her. 72 00:06:11,329 --> 00:06:15,579 And she starts talking about my uncle, Uncle Ed. 73 00:06:17,919 --> 00:06:21,799 And she went on and on about a trunk and bloody clothes, 74 00:06:22,090 --> 00:06:26,640 and had this whole story about her brother. 75 00:06:29,973 --> 00:06:33,273 I waited until the next day and brought it up to her in the kitchen, 76 00:06:33,351 --> 00:06:36,351 and she looked at me panicked and said, "I never said that." 77 00:06:37,355 --> 00:06:40,025 And I didn't hear anything else about it for years. 78 00:06:46,281 --> 00:06:49,411 My aunt was Uncle Ed's first wife. 79 00:06:50,577 --> 00:06:55,577 We had connected on Facebook probably about four years ago. 80 00:06:56,708 --> 00:07:00,168 She was telling me, um, her version 81 00:07:00,295 --> 00:07:04,045 of what happened the night that Sister Cathy went missing. 82 00:07:08,261 --> 00:07:13,101 Well, we met in probably junior year of high school. 83 00:07:14,309 --> 00:07:17,849 I just immediately was drawn to him. 84 00:07:19,773 --> 00:07:25,073 He was very kind to me, he was good-looking, very charming. 85 00:07:25,779 --> 00:07:28,279 I guess it was almost like love at first sight. 86 00:07:38,124 --> 00:07:40,674 We became engaged at Christmastime. 87 00:07:41,753 --> 00:07:45,843 Three days before the wedding actually was to take place, 88 00:07:45,966 --> 00:07:50,756 his sister called and she said, "I don't want you to marry my brother. 89 00:07:51,304 --> 00:07:53,604 There's things about Ed you don't know." 90 00:07:54,391 --> 00:07:56,851 And I said, "What do you mean? 91 00:07:56,935 --> 00:07:59,225 I know he's immature. I've seen some of that." 92 00:07:59,312 --> 00:08:02,902 I said, "But after... You know, after we get married, I'll fix him." 93 00:08:03,566 --> 00:08:04,986 So, we got married. 94 00:08:05,777 --> 00:08:09,317 And one day, I went home early from work. 95 00:08:09,864 --> 00:08:12,334 And for the first time, I got to open the mail 96 00:08:12,409 --> 00:08:16,039 and find out that there were bills piled up, 97 00:08:16,121 --> 00:08:17,751 the rent wasn't getting paid, 98 00:08:18,289 --> 00:08:21,499 there was threatening notices from everywhere. 99 00:08:22,168 --> 00:08:26,168 So, I was just sitting and kind of shaking in it, 100 00:08:26,256 --> 00:08:28,086 in the chair when he came in. 101 00:08:28,466 --> 00:08:31,006 And as soon as he came in, I said, "You're busted." 102 00:08:31,636 --> 00:08:33,596 I said, "I know what you've been doing. 103 00:08:33,763 --> 00:08:35,773 You've been playing these games. 104 00:08:36,141 --> 00:08:38,521 You have not been going to work." 105 00:08:39,144 --> 00:08:40,564 I said, "You're lying." 106 00:08:41,354 --> 00:08:45,284 So, I went and got my suitcase and I started putting stuff in it. 107 00:08:45,650 --> 00:08:48,650 And Ed, at that point, got violent. 108 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:54,370 His face became extremely, um, agitated and distorted, 109 00:08:54,784 --> 00:08:56,374 and he started choking me. 110 00:08:58,038 --> 00:09:03,498 And he said, "Do you realize that I could kill you right now 111 00:09:04,419 --> 00:09:08,339 and tell myself that somebody else did this 112 00:09:09,549 --> 00:09:10,549 and believe it?" 113 00:09:12,010 --> 00:09:16,470 And I swore I would never go near this man again. 114 00:09:17,223 --> 00:09:19,983 But, unbeknownst to me, I was carrying twins. 115 00:09:21,061 --> 00:09:24,441 So... we went back together. 116 00:09:24,939 --> 00:09:29,439 And, um, in October, the twins were born, 117 00:09:29,527 --> 00:09:34,447 and the little girl was four-seven, so, they kept her in the preemie ward. 118 00:09:35,533 --> 00:09:41,253 November 7th was the day that Bon Secours Hospital called me 119 00:09:41,331 --> 00:09:45,591 and said, "You can pick your little daughter up tomorrow. 120 00:09:45,668 --> 00:09:48,048 She's exactly five pounds." 121 00:09:49,631 --> 00:09:51,841 So, I came in on the 7th, 122 00:09:52,383 --> 00:09:56,143 and I'm all excited about picking our baby up. 123 00:09:56,971 --> 00:10:00,601 I looked at the clock in the foyer when he walked in 124 00:10:00,809 --> 00:10:03,939 and I said, "What are you doing home? It's only 9:30." 125 00:10:04,771 --> 00:10:10,151 And then I happened to notice right away that his white shirt was full of blood. 126 00:10:11,986 --> 00:10:13,946 I was like, "What happened?" 127 00:10:15,073 --> 00:10:17,203 Ed says, "Oh, nothing." 128 00:10:17,283 --> 00:10:19,953 He says, "My boss wouldn't give me my paycheck 129 00:10:20,036 --> 00:10:21,656 and I know how bad we need it." 130 00:10:21,746 --> 00:10:26,706 He said, "So, I got in a fight with him and he punched me in the nose." 131 00:10:27,252 --> 00:10:31,092 And it was that Sunday... 132 00:10:32,841 --> 00:10:37,551 when the news came out on the TV that Sister Cesnik had disappeared. 133 00:10:38,471 --> 00:10:41,391 He was sitting in a chair right in front of the TV 134 00:10:41,975 --> 00:10:43,425 and I was feeding the babies, 135 00:10:43,518 --> 00:10:47,148 and it's, you know, freeze-frame in my head. 136 00:10:48,189 --> 00:10:50,479 And I heard the newsman saying 137 00:10:50,567 --> 00:10:55,737 that the sister had disappeared on November 7th. 138 00:10:56,447 --> 00:10:58,987 Right away, I'm getting a flashback. 139 00:10:59,534 --> 00:11:03,204 "November 7th, that was the night before we picked up our baby. 140 00:11:03,288 --> 00:11:06,458 That was the night Ed came in with the bloody shirt." 141 00:11:06,708 --> 00:11:08,128 So, I looked at him, 142 00:11:08,751 --> 00:11:11,801 and his reaction was rocking back in the chair 143 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,010 and getting a smirk and kind of laughing. 144 00:11:15,258 --> 00:11:19,598 He said, "By the time they find her body, it's gonna be wintertime. 145 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,059 She's gonna be buried under the snow." 146 00:11:23,308 --> 00:11:26,058 And I couldn't get my mind off of his reaction, 147 00:11:26,144 --> 00:11:28,734 and my mind going back to that night, 148 00:11:28,813 --> 00:11:32,903 and, "My God, could Ed have done something like that?" 149 00:11:34,777 --> 00:11:39,277 And then, you know, shortly after that, Ed came home 150 00:11:39,365 --> 00:11:41,905 and he said he had stopped at Montgomery Ward's. 151 00:11:41,993 --> 00:11:46,753 He gave me the bill so I could see how much it was, and I said, "Holy cow. 152 00:11:47,415 --> 00:11:52,455 Brand new tires?" I said, "Why? We can't afford this." 153 00:11:53,296 --> 00:11:57,046 He said, "Well, I just felt that wintertime's coming 154 00:11:57,133 --> 00:11:58,973 and we should have new tires." 155 00:11:59,928 --> 00:12:06,098 So, I started putting that as another piece to the puzzle 156 00:12:06,851 --> 00:12:11,271 and thinking, "I wonder if that's why he got the tires changed, 157 00:12:11,773 --> 00:12:12,863 'cause of tracks?" 158 00:12:14,817 --> 00:12:20,737 We separated in October of 1970, 159 00:12:21,115 --> 00:12:24,235 right before the twins' first birthday. 160 00:12:24,994 --> 00:12:30,214 A year later, would've been, uh, 1971, October. 161 00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:34,170 My girlfriend called me and said that she read the newspaper, 162 00:12:34,253 --> 00:12:37,173 and there was a guy going around at Rock Glen High School 163 00:12:37,256 --> 00:12:38,716 trying to pick up girls. 164 00:12:39,217 --> 00:12:44,387 It was a man in his 20s, and, uh, brown hair, blue eyes, 165 00:12:44,472 --> 00:12:48,062 driving a car around Rock Glen High School 166 00:12:48,267 --> 00:12:52,017 trying to entice girls into the car. 167 00:12:52,605 --> 00:12:56,525 It was a stolen car from British Imports in Towson. 168 00:12:58,277 --> 00:13:02,657 Ed called me the night before or the night before that 169 00:13:02,740 --> 00:13:06,450 and said he was driving around in a stolen car 170 00:13:06,744 --> 00:13:08,664 from British Imports in Towson. 171 00:13:09,664 --> 00:13:12,964 I called the police about that newspaper article, 172 00:13:13,626 --> 00:13:16,296 which eventually did lead to Ed's arrest 173 00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:19,299 in November of '71. 174 00:13:29,726 --> 00:13:30,846 What's that mean? 175 00:13:39,152 --> 00:13:41,452 Did you...? Is this a touch screen? 176 00:13:41,529 --> 00:13:44,369 Ah-ha! Well, that... That could be... 177 00:13:44,449 --> 00:13:45,409 Is he there? 178 00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:48,869 Ah! Hey. Okay. Are you there? 179 00:13:48,953 --> 00:13:50,003 Hi. There you are. 180 00:13:50,079 --> 00:13:51,539 Hi. Good. 181 00:13:51,622 --> 00:13:53,752 I'll hang up my phone. You can see us? 182 00:13:53,833 --> 00:13:57,093 We have a table set out here with coffee filters 183 00:13:57,170 --> 00:14:00,760 with all of our main players' names on them, and... 184 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,050 Yeah, great. Gemma has tried to create a web here 185 00:14:04,135 --> 00:14:07,095 of people and their connections to each other. 186 00:14:07,180 --> 00:14:08,890 Okay. You wanna talk about Edgar? 187 00:14:08,973 --> 00:14:10,813 Let's bring Edgar into it. 188 00:14:10,892 --> 00:14:14,402 Edgar was a man who lived a complicated life. 189 00:14:14,479 --> 00:14:19,229 I mean, he was arrested for car theft two years after Cathy was murdered, 190 00:14:19,317 --> 00:14:21,487 and he was loitering at the middle school 191 00:14:21,569 --> 00:14:24,699 trying to pick up middle school girls in a stolen car. 192 00:14:25,239 --> 00:14:27,779 And literally, the middle school is here 193 00:14:27,867 --> 00:14:30,447 and Cathy's apartment complex is here. 194 00:14:30,995 --> 00:14:33,865 They butt up against each other at parking lots. 195 00:14:34,374 --> 00:14:37,344 We looked at him because Edgar's first wife, 196 00:14:37,668 --> 00:14:42,338 who I believe, she gave us this complicated story, 197 00:14:42,423 --> 00:14:44,803 and we researched it and looked it up, 198 00:14:44,884 --> 00:14:46,594 and everything was true. 199 00:14:46,677 --> 00:14:49,507 We found court records, we found marriage licenses, 200 00:14:49,972 --> 00:14:53,892 uh, newspaper articles, everything confirmed her details perfectly. 201 00:14:57,897 --> 00:14:59,607 The night that Cathy was abducted, 202 00:15:00,149 --> 00:15:03,529 she was shopping that evening for an engagement present for her sister. 203 00:15:05,071 --> 00:15:09,331 And when the police found her car, they had proof of a bank transaction. 204 00:15:09,409 --> 00:15:12,079 So, we know that she did go to the bank to cash the check. 205 00:15:13,079 --> 00:15:17,669 She was going to go and buy some Baltimore favorite baked rolls 206 00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:19,500 at a bakery called Muhly's. 207 00:15:19,585 --> 00:15:22,705 And they found those rolls in the car when they found the car. 208 00:15:22,797 --> 00:15:24,757 So, we know she went to Muhly's. 209 00:15:25,383 --> 00:15:28,093 She said was gonna go and buy this engagement present. 210 00:15:28,261 --> 00:15:30,681 When they searched the car, the present was not there 211 00:15:30,763 --> 00:15:32,183 and has never been found. 212 00:15:35,393 --> 00:15:39,063 The Christmas after Sister Cesnik disappeared, 213 00:15:39,522 --> 00:15:45,492 Ed gave me this necklace as part of a Christmas gift. 214 00:15:46,988 --> 00:15:50,698 And just kind of came up behind me and put it on my neck. 215 00:15:54,078 --> 00:15:55,748 He said, "This is for you." 216 00:15:57,457 --> 00:15:59,747 He didn't really give me gifts like that. 217 00:16:00,585 --> 00:16:03,415 We didn't have any money, I didn't know how we could afford... 218 00:16:03,504 --> 00:16:07,304 And if he were to pick out jewelry, you know, 219 00:16:08,134 --> 00:16:10,684 I was almost certain he would get my birthstone. 220 00:16:11,220 --> 00:16:14,430 But it had a green stone in it, and then it was a wedding bell. 221 00:16:14,724 --> 00:16:17,064 And I thought, why are you giving me a wedding bell 222 00:16:17,143 --> 00:16:23,363 when we've already been married for, you know, a year, maybe almost two. 223 00:16:24,734 --> 00:16:26,784 I felt like he didn't buy that for me. 224 00:16:26,861 --> 00:16:30,161 I felt like it was for somebody else and it was given to me. 225 00:16:31,115 --> 00:16:35,235 You know, I, like, just kept it in one place in my jewelry box and never wore it. 226 00:16:35,536 --> 00:16:38,116 And don't know why I kept it. 227 00:16:38,206 --> 00:16:42,836 I mean... I... I just forgot about it. 228 00:16:44,545 --> 00:16:50,425 Debbie's aunt gave us the... The necklace, told us to hold on to it. 229 00:16:50,927 --> 00:16:54,967 I looked at the stone and as... As you can see it's a light, light green, 230 00:16:55,056 --> 00:16:57,136 which is an August birthstone. 231 00:16:57,225 --> 00:17:00,015 So, you know, I think we both have the goal 232 00:17:00,102 --> 00:17:06,152 that if there are still people that are still alive involved in this, 233 00:17:06,692 --> 00:17:08,902 we obviously wanna see justice done. 234 00:17:09,403 --> 00:17:10,703 And we'd like to return it 235 00:17:10,780 --> 00:17:15,490 or, you know, give it to the person that it was intended for. 236 00:17:21,666 --> 00:17:25,206 I did get in touch with Cathy's cousins in Pennsylvania 237 00:17:25,294 --> 00:17:27,094 who were initially pleasant, 238 00:17:27,171 --> 00:17:29,801 but sort of said, "We've had enough pain, leave us alone. 239 00:17:29,882 --> 00:17:32,802 We don't have anything to tell you." We sort of respected that. 240 00:17:32,885 --> 00:17:35,755 We wanted to try to get in touch with the family to ask them: 241 00:17:35,846 --> 00:17:39,226 "Does green mean something? Was it the bride's favorite color? 242 00:17:39,308 --> 00:17:42,438 Was it a birthstone for the bride? 243 00:17:43,187 --> 00:17:46,187 Does it have any significance in view of being something 244 00:17:46,274 --> 00:17:49,694 that she might have picked out for the wedding for an engagement present?" 245 00:18:10,756 --> 00:18:14,636 As our investigation progressed and developed, 246 00:18:15,261 --> 00:18:18,761 we found that an anonymous tip line would be helpful. 247 00:18:19,056 --> 00:18:25,686 So, Abbie set this up so that anybody who had information to share with us, 248 00:18:25,771 --> 00:18:30,821 questions, comments, could send information anonymously. 249 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:34,160 When we felt like we had gathered a lot of evidence 250 00:18:34,238 --> 00:18:37,948 and were starting to make assumptions about Edgar Davidson 251 00:18:38,034 --> 00:18:42,164 and his family as being involved in Sister Cathy's murder... 252 00:18:42,872 --> 00:18:46,462 ...a whole other family showed up on our anonymous tip line. 253 00:18:47,084 --> 00:18:48,794 That was the Schmidt Family, 254 00:18:49,086 --> 00:18:53,626 the niece of a man who had been Sister Cathy's neighbor 255 00:18:53,716 --> 00:18:56,636 shared with us a very similar story. 256 00:18:56,886 --> 00:19:02,056 That she felt like her uncle had been involved in Cathy's murder. 257 00:19:04,143 --> 00:19:05,983 I'm a pinch hitter today. 258 00:19:06,103 --> 00:19:10,983 Gemma is laid low with a bronchitis and a laryngitis and can't speak at all. 259 00:19:11,275 --> 00:19:13,815 So, I volunteered to fill in for her stead. 260 00:19:14,153 --> 00:19:18,573 Leave my computer and my research lines to actually come talk to people. 261 00:19:18,699 --> 00:19:21,079 That's a little scary to have to go talk to people, 262 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,790 but we will... We will tough it out. 263 00:19:23,913 --> 00:19:25,873 Nobody's hurt me so far in this. 264 00:19:29,126 --> 00:19:33,296 We are driving to meet a lady I have never met named Sharon Schmidt. 265 00:19:33,631 --> 00:19:37,971 We had Edgar's family, who believed that he was involved with her murder. 266 00:19:38,052 --> 00:19:40,762 And now we have a second family coming forward 267 00:19:40,930 --> 00:19:43,270 saying that they have a man in their family 268 00:19:43,432 --> 00:19:45,562 who they believed was involved that night. 269 00:19:45,893 --> 00:19:48,773 So, now our task is to try to figure out 270 00:19:48,854 --> 00:19:52,484 if evidence is pointing more toward one or the other, 271 00:19:52,566 --> 00:19:56,816 or if there's a chance they were working together on this, 272 00:19:57,363 --> 00:20:00,413 perhaps at the behest of Father Maskell. 273 00:20:07,164 --> 00:20:09,294 Hi. Did you find me okay? 274 00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:10,670 Hi, Abbie. Hi. 275 00:20:10,751 --> 00:20:12,671 Hi, I'm Sharon. Nice to meet you. 276 00:20:20,511 --> 00:20:23,471 I guess I'm anxious to hear what we're gonna talk about tonight. 277 00:20:24,974 --> 00:20:30,234 I view my family as a pretty open and communicative type of family. 278 00:20:30,604 --> 00:20:34,574 But this has flushed some things out of our family closet 279 00:20:34,650 --> 00:20:36,570 that I just wasn't aware of. 280 00:20:37,611 --> 00:20:38,781 I remember the night, 281 00:20:38,863 --> 00:20:42,073 because my mother and father were having a very, very, very... 282 00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:45,410 It seems to me like a really intense argument. 283 00:20:45,494 --> 00:20:48,664 And it was... As a child, I was afraid in the situation. 284 00:20:48,998 --> 00:20:52,128 He said to my mother, "You wanna know why I drink? 285 00:20:52,209 --> 00:20:56,049 Because we killed a woman and we put her behind the shop." 286 00:20:56,589 --> 00:21:01,139 I think my mother believes that my family, my uncle, had something to do with it. 287 00:21:01,635 --> 00:21:04,505 And maybe my father was speaking about something he knew. 288 00:21:06,557 --> 00:21:07,887 I will never forget that. 289 00:21:10,019 --> 00:21:14,439 When you take a look at where she lived and where she was found, 290 00:21:14,982 --> 00:21:17,442 it's just too many coincidences. 291 00:21:19,487 --> 00:21:23,117 So, this is where Sister Cathy lived and my Uncle Bill was right here. 292 00:21:23,908 --> 00:21:24,868 Jeez. 293 00:21:25,367 --> 00:21:28,657 It's like about ten steps to my uncle's apartment 294 00:21:28,746 --> 00:21:30,826 when he lived in this complex. 295 00:21:34,293 --> 00:21:36,343 So, this was my uncle's apartment right here, 296 00:21:36,420 --> 00:21:38,510 this ground-level apartment, the patio. 297 00:21:38,589 --> 00:21:42,719 That's basically the same as it was, and my brother and I would play out here. 298 00:21:43,219 --> 00:21:47,259 And Sister Cathy's apartment is directly through that partition, 299 00:21:47,348 --> 00:21:50,098 which was not there at the time. That was open walkway. 300 00:21:50,184 --> 00:21:52,774 Literally ten steps from my uncle's door. 301 00:21:53,521 --> 00:21:57,901 Her car was parked right there in the opening of that driveway. 302 00:21:58,192 --> 00:22:01,072 As a matter of fact, if you... When you pull the... 303 00:22:01,153 --> 00:22:03,823 The first newspaper clipping that announced this, 304 00:22:04,114 --> 00:22:06,334 when they show where her car was parked, 305 00:22:06,408 --> 00:22:11,158 you actually will see my uncle's apartment in the same newspaper clipping. 306 00:22:12,331 --> 00:22:14,121 It literally is just a sprint. 307 00:22:15,459 --> 00:22:18,169 Done. You know what I mean? It's... Yeah. And it was dark. 308 00:22:18,254 --> 00:22:20,304 It was like 8:30 or so. Yeah. 309 00:22:20,965 --> 00:22:24,965 We have Billy Schmidt living in the end apartment here, 310 00:22:25,678 --> 00:22:27,048 right near Sister Cathy. 311 00:22:27,346 --> 00:22:29,886 And we have Edgar Davidson trolling 312 00:22:29,974 --> 00:22:33,144 to pick young girls at Rock Glen Middle School. 313 00:22:33,852 --> 00:22:38,402 And police were looking for a white man with dark hair driving a red sports car 314 00:22:38,607 --> 00:22:42,357 because he was trying to pick up the young girls leaving the middle school 315 00:22:42,444 --> 00:22:44,614 to get them to go for rides in the car with him. 316 00:22:44,697 --> 00:22:48,117 So, they were certainly in the same geographical area here. 317 00:22:58,877 --> 00:23:00,627 Hello. Hey, it's me. 318 00:23:00,796 --> 00:23:03,466 Yeah. So, I've got you on speaker. 319 00:23:03,549 --> 00:23:05,629 Can you talk? Okay. 320 00:23:05,718 --> 00:23:08,968 So, we were just talking about, um... 321 00:23:09,722 --> 00:23:13,312 you know, how this has always been, like, a subject in our family, 322 00:23:13,392 --> 00:23:15,062 like, an unspoken subject? 323 00:23:15,436 --> 00:23:16,346 Uh-huh. 324 00:23:16,437 --> 00:23:19,357 So, I always kind of felt that... 325 00:23:21,066 --> 00:23:25,816 one or two of our family members might have had something to do with it. 326 00:23:26,363 --> 00:23:29,533 Can you elaborate then on why you feel that way? 327 00:23:29,867 --> 00:23:35,787 Well, because my husband, your father, never, ever was a drinker. 328 00:23:36,457 --> 00:23:41,417 And then, one day, all of a sudden, he decided he was gonna be a drinker. 329 00:23:41,503 --> 00:23:45,053 So, you think he started drinking because he knew about that murder, 330 00:23:45,132 --> 00:23:46,472 is that what you're saying? 331 00:23:46,550 --> 00:23:49,050 Yeah. I think it... It weighed on his conscience. 332 00:23:49,136 --> 00:23:55,726 And I think your Uncle Bill called your father to come help him. 333 00:23:55,809 --> 00:23:57,899 And he went and he helped him. 334 00:23:58,395 --> 00:24:00,725 And I think that's where the blood came from. 335 00:24:00,814 --> 00:24:01,694 Mm-hm. 336 00:24:01,774 --> 00:24:05,534 And I think we just never talked about it because it was better not to know. 337 00:24:07,613 --> 00:24:09,573 All right. I'll talk to you later. 338 00:24:09,657 --> 00:24:10,987 All right. Bye. Bye. 339 00:24:12,034 --> 00:24:13,834 You should talk to my mother. 340 00:24:15,537 --> 00:24:17,287 I mean, you heard what she said. 341 00:24:36,016 --> 00:24:38,056 They're not gonna care. Come on. 342 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,480 Come on. They're not gonna care. 343 00:24:41,355 --> 00:24:43,685 Come on. They're not gonna care. Come on. 344 00:24:43,899 --> 00:24:46,189 Come on. You can get up here. Come on. 345 00:24:47,695 --> 00:24:49,905 I have five Yorkies. 346 00:24:49,988 --> 00:24:51,068 Hey, hey, no, no. 347 00:24:51,156 --> 00:24:54,906 The other one's an English Spangler and the other one is a dachshund. 348 00:24:55,411 --> 00:24:57,411 And the other one is a boxer. 349 00:24:58,163 --> 00:24:59,213 Hey. 350 00:24:59,289 --> 00:25:00,289 Shh, shh. 351 00:25:00,374 --> 00:25:01,584 Quiet. Quiet. 352 00:25:01,667 --> 00:25:03,337 I don't raise a hand to them. 353 00:25:03,585 --> 00:25:05,875 The most I say is "be quiet" and "shut up." 354 00:25:06,255 --> 00:25:07,085 No. 355 00:25:07,965 --> 00:25:08,965 Uh-uh. Uh-uh. 356 00:25:09,049 --> 00:25:09,879 No. No. 357 00:25:10,592 --> 00:25:12,762 And my parrot is a yellow-nape. 358 00:25:15,931 --> 00:25:17,061 She's 40 years old. 359 00:25:17,725 --> 00:25:20,725 She has a good personality, but she doesn't like everybody. 360 00:25:21,437 --> 00:25:22,937 She'll pretend she does. 361 00:25:23,939 --> 00:25:26,069 She only likes one person and that's me. 362 00:25:26,442 --> 00:25:27,652 She hates my husband. 363 00:25:27,735 --> 00:25:30,485 She'll chase him 50 miles just to get a little nibble. 364 00:25:32,156 --> 00:25:35,826 Now, I have more pictures, but I have no idea where they are. 365 00:25:37,494 --> 00:25:42,464 My daughter, Sharon, about two years old, two and a half. 366 00:25:43,292 --> 00:25:48,382 And then that was my son Brian when he was 12, 13, 14 months old. 367 00:25:48,922 --> 00:25:53,512 Ronald Schmidt, my ex-husband that I was married to for 24 and a half years, 368 00:25:53,802 --> 00:25:55,142 my children's father. 369 00:25:55,888 --> 00:26:00,928 There's me with Sharon at the Schmidt house on Monumental Avenue. 370 00:26:02,352 --> 00:26:05,272 See, I've got a lot of pictures here of the Schmidt household, 371 00:26:05,355 --> 00:26:06,895 you can see they're missing. 372 00:26:08,734 --> 00:26:10,444 Now, here's a picture of Bill. 373 00:26:12,488 --> 00:26:16,578 The only picture... that I know of. 374 00:26:17,576 --> 00:26:19,996 William Charles Schmidt. 375 00:26:20,078 --> 00:26:21,288 Shh! 376 00:26:21,371 --> 00:26:22,541 Known as Billy. 377 00:26:25,083 --> 00:26:27,343 Back then, he was the best friend I ever had. 378 00:26:27,419 --> 00:26:30,049 He was like a knight in shining armor for me. 379 00:26:30,798 --> 00:26:33,628 Kind, gentle soul, but strange. 380 00:26:33,717 --> 00:26:35,837 He had very weird ways. 381 00:26:36,762 --> 00:26:40,392 After I had my daughter, he always came home for lunch, 382 00:26:40,474 --> 00:26:44,194 and he would say, "Come on, girl. Let's get back in shape." 383 00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:46,939 And we'd go in the living room and he'd turn on the stereo 384 00:26:47,022 --> 00:26:49,072 and we do the twist for half an hour. 385 00:26:53,570 --> 00:26:56,820 And he'd say, "You're not gonna get in shape just sitting there. 386 00:26:56,907 --> 00:26:59,197 You just had a baby. Let's twist." 387 00:27:00,452 --> 00:27:03,082 I married his brother, Ronald Francis Schmidt. 388 00:27:03,413 --> 00:27:07,843 We met when we were like 11 years old, and we got married at 16. 389 00:27:09,044 --> 00:27:12,594 My father-in-law, he didn't think I was good enough for his family. 390 00:27:13,090 --> 00:27:14,170 They never liked me. 391 00:27:15,050 --> 00:27:18,640 They didn't care too much for Bill either because of his lifestyle. 392 00:27:19,763 --> 00:27:21,723 He was gay. 393 00:27:22,266 --> 00:27:24,636 Back then, we're talking early '60s, 394 00:27:25,018 --> 00:27:27,308 that was not talked about, it was hush-hush. 395 00:27:27,396 --> 00:27:28,726 It was kept in the closet. 396 00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:32,190 That whole environment really messed him up. 397 00:27:33,318 --> 00:27:35,108 Billy couldn't stand it anymore. 398 00:27:35,487 --> 00:27:36,777 He went and got an apartment. 399 00:27:38,615 --> 00:27:41,285 Bill used to talk about the nun across the hall 400 00:27:41,827 --> 00:27:44,327 saying that she was pretty, that she was nice. 401 00:27:44,955 --> 00:27:47,415 I met her one time, he introduced her. 402 00:27:47,499 --> 00:27:50,209 He said, "This is my neighbor, Sister Catherine." 403 00:27:52,713 --> 00:27:57,263 I find it very coincidental that she lived across the hall from my brother-in-law 404 00:27:57,342 --> 00:28:00,222 and was found very close to the family home. 405 00:28:02,180 --> 00:28:04,350 Not only was it behind the home, 406 00:28:04,433 --> 00:28:07,813 it was behind the family business, by the railroad tracks 407 00:28:07,895 --> 00:28:11,605 between the business and the house. 408 00:28:12,149 --> 00:28:14,069 There was all these woods in between. 409 00:28:14,860 --> 00:28:17,320 Bill definitely knew the area. 410 00:28:19,781 --> 00:28:22,741 Well, one night, my husband worked the night shift. 411 00:28:23,410 --> 00:28:25,870 And when he came home, he had blood on him. 412 00:28:27,122 --> 00:28:29,122 Blood on his hands, blood on his shirt. 413 00:28:29,666 --> 00:28:31,626 I asked him, "Ronnie, where you been?" 414 00:28:32,127 --> 00:28:33,417 He said, "Don't worry about it." 415 00:28:33,962 --> 00:28:36,842 And I kept badgering him, "Where have you been?" 416 00:28:37,466 --> 00:28:39,256 He said, "I was in a bar fight." 417 00:28:40,010 --> 00:28:42,680 I knew he wasn't, he didn't have a scratch on him. 418 00:28:43,388 --> 00:28:47,388 He just had blood on his hands, his forearms, and his shirt. 419 00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:52,190 So, I knew he'd been into something, but it wasn't a fight. 420 00:28:53,106 --> 00:28:55,976 He was, like, the perfect dad, the perfect husband. 421 00:28:56,235 --> 00:28:59,485 After the nun died, everything changed. 422 00:28:59,571 --> 00:29:02,781 Started drinking, doing drugs, acting crazy. 423 00:29:04,493 --> 00:29:05,833 It changed our lives. 424 00:29:07,913 --> 00:29:08,963 Just like with Bill. 425 00:29:13,210 --> 00:29:14,880 Bill became a hermit. 426 00:29:15,337 --> 00:29:17,337 He did not go to work anymore. 427 00:29:17,422 --> 00:29:20,552 Stayed in the house, didn't drive his car... 428 00:29:22,010 --> 00:29:24,550 didn't see any family or friends... 429 00:29:24,846 --> 00:29:25,926 started... 430 00:29:27,849 --> 00:29:29,769 talking about the woman in the attic. 431 00:29:32,771 --> 00:29:35,981 After the nun was murdered, he was obsessed with it. 432 00:29:36,483 --> 00:29:38,193 He'd talk about it all the time. 433 00:29:38,902 --> 00:29:41,452 He would say, "Can you believe somebody killed her? 434 00:29:41,530 --> 00:29:43,570 Can you believe where they found her?" 435 00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:47,620 I mean, he would just go on and on and on and on. 436 00:29:48,996 --> 00:29:52,616 This guy named Skippy was a friend of my brother-in-law Bill's. 437 00:29:52,916 --> 00:29:57,296 I was introduced to him as Skippy, never another name. 438 00:29:57,379 --> 00:30:00,589 I have no idea what his first or last name was. 439 00:30:00,757 --> 00:30:02,547 Only thing I know about is 440 00:30:02,801 --> 00:30:06,681 I think they started out as friends and I think they ended up as lovers. 441 00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:14,730 The two of them, this guy named Skippy and my brother-in-law Bill, 442 00:30:15,272 --> 00:30:19,152 were obsessed with the Catholic Church, but I don't know why. 443 00:30:19,568 --> 00:30:20,898 Bill wasn't Catholic. 444 00:30:21,445 --> 00:30:26,865 Him and Skippy dressed up and went parading down Baltimore Street, 445 00:30:27,659 --> 00:30:32,539 one dressed as a priest, one dressed us a nun, a pregnant nun. 446 00:30:36,418 --> 00:30:39,378 I used to work for Western Electric on Broening Highway, 447 00:30:39,463 --> 00:30:42,303 and I worked the night shift. I worked 4:30 to 1. 448 00:30:42,841 --> 00:30:45,681 Well, this one particular night, and it was wintertime, 449 00:30:46,178 --> 00:30:48,848 came through the tunnel and I'd seen headlights behind me, 450 00:30:48,930 --> 00:30:50,810 but I didn't think anything about it. 451 00:30:52,017 --> 00:30:55,307 And this car pulled up alongside of me that had been following me, 452 00:30:55,395 --> 00:30:58,605 and I just had the feeling that somebody was staring at me. 453 00:30:59,608 --> 00:31:01,438 So, I glanced over. 454 00:31:02,069 --> 00:31:03,109 And when I did... 455 00:31:04,029 --> 00:31:08,279 it was this blue older station wagon with this nun driving it, 456 00:31:08,492 --> 00:31:10,162 only it wasn't a nun at all. 457 00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:15,869 It was somebody with a big old mustache grinning from ear to ear at me. 458 00:31:16,833 --> 00:31:19,543 So, when that light turned green, I took off. 459 00:31:20,087 --> 00:31:22,047 I went through red lights and everything. 460 00:31:22,130 --> 00:31:24,550 When I got down to Ritchie Highway and Mountain Road 461 00:31:24,633 --> 00:31:27,973 where they come together, that car was right on my bumper. 462 00:31:28,345 --> 00:31:30,805 So, I took off in front of traffic 463 00:31:31,098 --> 00:31:34,228 and that person in that station wagon got stuck... 464 00:31:35,644 --> 00:31:36,774 and I was hysterical. 465 00:31:37,270 --> 00:31:39,400 I pulled into my driveway, ran into my house. 466 00:31:39,481 --> 00:31:43,401 My babysitter was in there, and I started screaming, "Call the police!" 467 00:31:43,777 --> 00:31:46,657 And to this day, I believe it was Skippy. 468 00:31:47,697 --> 00:31:49,447 Definitely was a man. 469 00:31:50,534 --> 00:31:54,504 I don't know many women that have big thick mustaches, but Skippy did. 470 00:31:55,789 --> 00:31:58,789 I couldn't see enough of the face to say for sure, 471 00:31:59,084 --> 00:32:01,254 but I know it wasn't Bill. 472 00:32:01,837 --> 00:32:04,757 That guy Skippy. Maybe he thought I knew something. 473 00:32:04,923 --> 00:32:06,683 Maybe he thought I knew too much. 474 00:32:06,758 --> 00:32:07,878 I don't know nothing. 475 00:32:09,469 --> 00:32:13,849 It got so bad, Bill had to move back home to get away from that apartment. 476 00:32:14,599 --> 00:32:16,979 He would drink, take pills, stay up all day, 477 00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:20,020 walk the floors all night and talk about the woman in the attic. 478 00:32:20,522 --> 00:32:22,572 And that's how I discovered it was up there, 479 00:32:22,649 --> 00:32:25,899 because I wanted to prove to him there's no woman in the attic. 480 00:32:28,029 --> 00:32:31,409 And I went up there and I go, "What woman are you talking about?" 481 00:32:33,076 --> 00:32:34,786 He goes, "Don't you see her?" 482 00:32:46,006 --> 00:32:47,756 And it was on a mannequin. 483 00:32:49,009 --> 00:32:51,429 And it was blue with a white band. 484 00:32:53,805 --> 00:32:55,555 It was a nun's habit. 485 00:32:58,143 --> 00:32:59,773 He'd say she was after him... 486 00:33:00,896 --> 00:33:04,856 she was chasing him, she would talk to him. 487 00:33:07,027 --> 00:33:09,197 The whole thing, it was very bizarre. 488 00:33:09,988 --> 00:33:11,068 Everything about it. 489 00:33:12,407 --> 00:33:15,617 Once the murder happened, he became a very tortured soul. 490 00:33:18,079 --> 00:33:20,829 I think he couldn't live with his conscience anymore. 491 00:33:23,585 --> 00:33:25,375 After the nun was murdered, 492 00:33:26,087 --> 00:33:30,127 I'd say probably maybe three, four, or five months later, 493 00:33:30,884 --> 00:33:32,394 he tried to commit suicide. 494 00:33:33,762 --> 00:33:35,602 Numerous times, like five. 495 00:33:36,765 --> 00:33:38,975 And each time he would try it, he'd call me up. 496 00:33:40,727 --> 00:33:44,607 His sixth and final time that he tried it, he succeeded. 497 00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:49,069 He did call me, but he called to tell me, 498 00:33:49,152 --> 00:33:52,662 "Goodbye. I wanted to tell you that I love you. 499 00:33:53,823 --> 00:33:57,293 And I can't deal with... I can't deal with this no more." 500 00:33:57,786 --> 00:34:00,286 And I go, "What are you talking about?" And he hung up. 501 00:34:01,540 --> 00:34:04,880 He had taken 49 sleeping pills and drank booze. 502 00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:06,499 He was dead. 503 00:34:07,796 --> 00:34:09,336 He was 42 years old. 504 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:12,840 He knew something. 505 00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:17,180 That secret went to the grave with him. 506 00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:21,019 I don't know about Skippy. 507 00:34:21,810 --> 00:34:25,230 I couldn't tell you where he is or if he's dead or not, don't know. 508 00:34:25,522 --> 00:34:28,402 Skippy sort of, like, just disappeared. 509 00:34:28,817 --> 00:34:30,987 Nobody seen or heard from Skippy anymore. 510 00:34:31,236 --> 00:34:34,156 It was like everybody went their separate ways. 511 00:34:52,048 --> 00:34:52,968 Okay. 512 00:34:53,508 --> 00:34:56,388 I went crazy with these little papers. Anyway... 513 00:34:56,928 --> 00:35:03,768 Jane Doe was allegedly taken to the dump 514 00:35:04,227 --> 00:35:06,227 and saw Cathy's body. 515 00:35:07,981 --> 00:35:10,441 She was taken by Joseph Maskell. 516 00:35:11,192 --> 00:35:13,032 And when she got there, 517 00:35:13,612 --> 00:35:18,332 she saw Sister Cathy's body and he leaned over to her and said, 518 00:35:18,867 --> 00:35:22,077 "This is what happens when you say bad things about people." 519 00:35:22,162 --> 00:35:25,672 There's somebody named Bob in this whole mix, 520 00:35:26,291 --> 00:35:31,631 according to Jane Doe, that is also significant... 521 00:35:31,713 --> 00:35:33,593 in Cathy's murder. 522 00:35:33,673 --> 00:35:34,513 Okay? 523 00:35:35,342 --> 00:35:37,222 I think Jane is the key... Yeah. 524 00:35:37,302 --> 00:35:39,142 ...to solving the whole thing. Absolutely. 525 00:35:39,220 --> 00:35:43,730 Because if you accept her memories as valid, 526 00:35:43,808 --> 00:35:46,898 and, initially, I was unsure, but I'm beginning to come around 527 00:35:46,978 --> 00:35:48,808 to thinking that they are. 528 00:35:48,897 --> 00:35:50,267 With no disrespect for her, 529 00:35:50,357 --> 00:35:55,647 I'm just a very data-driven, proof-driven sort of person. 530 00:35:57,822 --> 00:36:04,292 I see no reason for her to subject herself to this public stress and humiliation... 531 00:36:06,373 --> 00:36:07,543 if it's not the truth. 532 00:36:12,462 --> 00:36:18,012 There's no sense that this is something that she enjoys or that she wants to do. 533 00:36:18,093 --> 00:36:23,393 She doesn't reach out, she doesn't post about being upset or needing support. 534 00:36:25,266 --> 00:36:27,596 My feeling is she's very guarded, 535 00:36:27,936 --> 00:36:33,526 but she's very determined to work through this step-by-step 536 00:36:34,275 --> 00:36:37,485 with her support system around her. 537 00:36:51,751 --> 00:36:56,051 Mike's love for me held me from totally falling into the abyss. 538 00:36:58,550 --> 00:37:00,720 I had that feeling of protection. 539 00:37:02,429 --> 00:37:06,729 He believed in me, he trusted me, he knew the kind of person I was. 540 00:37:10,895 --> 00:37:14,185 I'll let you each take a turn, but if you had to sort of... 541 00:37:14,733 --> 00:37:20,493 What's the word? Like, the secret to a 33-year marriage... 542 00:37:21,656 --> 00:37:22,986 what would you say, Mom? 543 00:37:23,366 --> 00:37:24,486 I'll let him start. 544 00:37:24,576 --> 00:37:26,076 Oh, okay. Dad. We survived. 545 00:37:26,161 --> 00:37:27,001 Yeah. 546 00:37:29,205 --> 00:37:30,995 Back then, even back then, 547 00:37:31,082 --> 00:37:34,962 as big of a knucklehead as I was, and I didn't know shit from Shinola, 548 00:37:35,044 --> 00:37:38,514 I knew your mother was a strong woman and I wanted to spend my life with her. 549 00:37:38,590 --> 00:37:39,470 I knew that. 550 00:37:39,758 --> 00:37:41,298 I knew it. I could tell. 551 00:37:42,761 --> 00:37:44,511 I could tell she was just different. 552 00:37:45,305 --> 00:37:48,135 I was like, "I ain't letting this relationship die." 553 00:37:50,810 --> 00:37:54,730 Each time there was a major ordeal, everything would fall on the ground, 554 00:37:54,814 --> 00:37:58,654 and I would just think, "What in the world would I do if he died?" 555 00:38:00,612 --> 00:38:03,412 My husband, Mike, swallowed a lot of anger. 556 00:38:03,490 --> 00:38:07,910 There was a lot of anger that he wanted to express. 557 00:38:08,244 --> 00:38:11,464 In those 21 hours of depositions, it was with him sitting there. 558 00:38:11,539 --> 00:38:14,749 He could not open his mouth or he would have to leave the room. 559 00:38:16,461 --> 00:38:20,091 That's swallowing an awful lot of what he was hearing 560 00:38:20,340 --> 00:38:22,470 and what they were saying to me. 561 00:38:23,259 --> 00:38:25,679 Being in a courtroom and seeing me go through that, 562 00:38:25,762 --> 00:38:27,722 not being able to be up there with me, 563 00:38:27,806 --> 00:38:31,176 there was no way he could deal with it, there was nothing he would do, 564 00:38:31,267 --> 00:38:34,597 'cause he wasn't gonna go against my wishes and he wasn't gonna hurt me 565 00:38:34,687 --> 00:38:37,767 by doing something that would scare me more. 566 00:38:38,316 --> 00:38:40,356 So, he swallowed it and he swallowed it. 567 00:38:41,861 --> 00:38:43,821 And he ended up with esophageal cancer. 568 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,250 "Who is this man who sits before me scared and real? 569 00:38:52,789 --> 00:38:55,749 Who is this man who feels like a fish out of water, 570 00:38:56,125 --> 00:38:59,795 unable to help another for lack of physical strength? 571 00:39:00,630 --> 00:39:05,760 Build something, move something, re-create, or better yet create something. 572 00:39:06,803 --> 00:39:08,973 This man is the strongest man I know." 573 00:39:11,391 --> 00:39:17,021 "He was my eyes when I couldn't see. He was my legs when I couldn't walk. 574 00:39:17,438 --> 00:39:22,398 He was my protective shield when I was at my most vulnerable. 575 00:39:22,944 --> 00:39:27,324 He was my fist when I didn't even know I had hands. 576 00:39:28,032 --> 00:39:32,412 He believed I was good when everything in me screamed 'harlot.' 577 00:39:34,831 --> 00:39:37,081 This man, Mike, is my soul mate." 578 00:39:38,001 --> 00:39:42,881 "The man I love through sickness, though richer or poorer, forever." 579 00:40:03,735 --> 00:40:09,405 When my husband died, I was terrified, because now I didn't have my protector. 580 00:40:10,909 --> 00:40:14,999 I don't know where I would have ended up if my husband hadn't come into my life. 581 00:40:16,122 --> 00:40:17,212 He was my rock. 582 00:40:23,338 --> 00:40:26,628 We've talked to a lot of people who have shared with us 583 00:40:26,716 --> 00:40:32,756 that Maskell moved in a really sleazy group of men in Baltimore. 584 00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:40,479 It's very possible that in referring to someone, Brother Bob, 585 00:40:40,813 --> 00:40:42,483 that could have been anybody. 586 00:40:43,024 --> 00:40:47,824 It could have been Edgar Davidson. It could have been Billy Schmidt. 587 00:40:47,904 --> 00:40:51,574 It could have been a police officer, another priest. 588 00:40:51,908 --> 00:40:57,868 This network that he had of people that had something to lose 589 00:40:58,331 --> 00:41:01,711 would have supported him and covered for him 590 00:41:01,793 --> 00:41:05,423 because he was protecting them, they were protecting him. 591 00:41:06,130 --> 00:41:07,670 Who knows how far this went? 592 00:41:11,761 --> 00:41:12,971 We're here. 593 00:41:13,471 --> 00:41:15,351 How are you, Mare? I'm good. 594 00:41:15,431 --> 00:41:17,771 Good. Real good, Gemma. Thank you for doing this. 595 00:41:17,850 --> 00:41:19,520 Oh, no problem. Yeah. 596 00:41:20,478 --> 00:41:23,768 Okay, let's take a look as we go here. 597 00:41:28,444 --> 00:41:32,994 And it actually is a colored rhinestone. 598 00:41:33,449 --> 00:41:34,739 So, it's not a peridot. 599 00:41:36,786 --> 00:41:39,116 The stone is a green glass, 600 00:41:39,205 --> 00:41:42,665 but to give it some brightness they put a little foil backing. 601 00:41:43,710 --> 00:41:48,420 These foil backs kind of died out by the '70s. 602 00:41:48,965 --> 00:41:51,875 I mean, it's not a high-selling stone. 603 00:41:52,552 --> 00:41:57,312 People only buy this color because of it being an August birthstone. 604 00:41:58,766 --> 00:42:01,476 This kind of almost looks handmade. 605 00:42:02,311 --> 00:42:05,111 I don't know if it's designed like that or got bent, 606 00:42:05,356 --> 00:42:09,236 you know, in terms of the one going up and the one going down. 607 00:42:09,318 --> 00:42:14,278 And then this piece is an old-style pendant thing 608 00:42:14,365 --> 00:42:16,945 that I don't even think they've made in 30 years. 609 00:42:17,910 --> 00:42:20,750 And maybe the guy just had these parts lying around and said, 610 00:42:20,830 --> 00:42:24,130 "Hey, I can put this together for you," and just did it real quick. 611 00:42:26,294 --> 00:42:32,094 I think the most important things that I took away from the gemologist was, 612 00:42:32,175 --> 00:42:35,335 first of all, the materials that went into it. 613 00:42:35,678 --> 00:42:38,468 There were quite a few different kinds of metal were typical 614 00:42:38,556 --> 00:42:41,926 of what was being used in the '60s for jewelry, 615 00:42:42,310 --> 00:42:46,110 and that it was not an expensive piece of jewelry. 616 00:42:46,606 --> 00:42:50,986 He gave an estimate of about ten to $15. 617 00:42:51,277 --> 00:42:53,027 And probably in the '60s, 618 00:42:53,112 --> 00:42:55,912 that would have been a lot of money on a teacher's salary. 619 00:42:56,491 --> 00:42:59,541 So, the fact that it was custom-made, 620 00:42:59,702 --> 00:43:03,292 I can see her at a counter with a jeweler 621 00:43:03,456 --> 00:43:06,786 talking about what she would like it to mean. 622 00:43:07,460 --> 00:43:12,840 Cathy was the kind of person that nothing was too small to not have meaning. 623 00:43:12,924 --> 00:43:14,384 She was very creative, 624 00:43:14,675 --> 00:43:19,135 very purposeful in her words, in her poetry, in her teaching. 625 00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:20,770 So, that, to me, 626 00:43:20,848 --> 00:43:26,188 something that she could give someone else would have to have meaning. 627 00:43:26,687 --> 00:43:30,777 If only we could find someone in the family 628 00:43:30,983 --> 00:43:33,113 who could identify the necklace, 629 00:43:34,070 --> 00:43:37,450 it would be a whole new avenue for us to explore 630 00:43:37,532 --> 00:43:39,532 and hopefully find some answers. 631 00:43:45,998 --> 00:43:48,918 When the case was reopened in the '90s, 632 00:43:49,127 --> 00:43:52,207 I was doing the dishes one night watching the six o'clock news, 633 00:43:52,296 --> 00:43:54,506 and it came on that they reopened the case. 634 00:43:54,924 --> 00:43:56,884 On November 7, 1969, 635 00:43:56,968 --> 00:43:59,888 Cathy Cesnik was abducted while getting out of her car 636 00:43:59,971 --> 00:44:02,681 at her apartment complex where she lived in Catonsville. 637 00:44:03,182 --> 00:44:06,232 She turned up murdered in a field in Lansdowne. 638 00:44:06,894 --> 00:44:09,234 I was flooded with childhood memories. 639 00:44:09,313 --> 00:44:12,983 Like the time when my father came home very inebriated 640 00:44:13,067 --> 00:44:16,607 and he was yelling at my mother saying, "Do you wanna know why I drink? 641 00:44:16,696 --> 00:44:20,196 Because I killed a woman. We put her behind the shop." 642 00:44:21,492 --> 00:44:24,082 I used to beg my father before my father died 643 00:44:24,370 --> 00:44:27,000 and I would just ask him over and over and over again, 644 00:44:27,081 --> 00:44:29,541 and the only answer I could ever get from my father was, 645 00:44:29,625 --> 00:44:31,995 "Shar, just leave it alone. 646 00:44:32,170 --> 00:44:35,050 It's just one of those things, you should just leave it alone." 647 00:44:35,131 --> 00:44:38,261 He never said, "Oh, my God. You're so ridiculous. How... " 648 00:44:38,509 --> 00:44:39,759 He didn't do that. 649 00:44:40,553 --> 00:44:46,233 After my brother's death, Abbie sent me my brother's interview. 650 00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:49,899 And I never knew until I listened to that interview 651 00:44:50,146 --> 00:44:53,146 that this subject plagued my brother. 652 00:44:53,232 --> 00:44:54,152 I never knew it. 653 00:44:54,233 --> 00:44:56,903 We never, ever once discussed it. 654 00:44:56,986 --> 00:44:59,106 Did you hear the interview? You've heard it? 655 00:44:59,196 --> 00:45:02,776 So, you hear how it plagued my brother also. 656 00:45:03,034 --> 00:45:04,414 I had no idea. 657 00:45:08,706 --> 00:45:10,416 Hello. Brian? 658 00:45:10,917 --> 00:45:11,787 Who's this? 659 00:45:11,876 --> 00:45:13,416 My name's Alan Horn. 660 00:45:13,711 --> 00:45:18,881 You don't know me, but your mother suggested that I call you. 661 00:45:19,550 --> 00:45:22,390 I'm an armchair researcher 662 00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:25,180 that's working on this Sister Cathy Cesnik story. 663 00:45:27,141 --> 00:45:28,561 It's about time. 664 00:45:30,603 --> 00:45:32,983 Okay. Well, I could close this case. 665 00:45:33,481 --> 00:45:36,481 If I just explained a few things, 666 00:45:37,276 --> 00:45:40,856 but I'm gonna tell you, I was there, except for her murder. 667 00:45:41,948 --> 00:45:43,318 Can that help you any? 668 00:45:43,866 --> 00:45:44,776 Oh, absolutely. 669 00:45:44,867 --> 00:45:47,447 I mean, we know that your Uncle Billy lived across the hall, 670 00:45:47,536 --> 00:45:51,246 we know your Uncle Bob... Look. No, stop, stop, stop. 671 00:45:51,332 --> 00:45:52,172 Go ahead. 672 00:45:52,917 --> 00:45:55,167 I'm gonna tell you exactly where we're at. 673 00:45:55,252 --> 00:45:56,252 Okay. Yes, 674 00:45:56,337 --> 00:45:57,667 Uncle Billy lived across the hall. 675 00:45:57,755 --> 00:46:00,545 It was like, sort of walked... Like, to the right. 676 00:46:00,633 --> 00:46:05,603 And I was in her apartment and my Uncle Bill was there. 677 00:46:06,138 --> 00:46:10,018 My Uncle Bill sent me back to his apartment. 678 00:46:10,476 --> 00:46:14,856 And the way I can picture in my memory is, I was there for quite a while, and... 679 00:46:15,773 --> 00:46:18,693 I went looking for my uncle, but when I found my uncle, 680 00:46:18,776 --> 00:46:22,486 he rushed me back to the apartment and shut her door. 681 00:46:24,031 --> 00:46:26,161 What I can tell you is... 682 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:37,130 my Uncle Bill called a guy named Skippy. Black hair, mustache. 683 00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:40,590 He came. They both went over to her apartment. 684 00:46:41,048 --> 00:46:45,138 They came back with what looked like something rolled up, a rug or a blanket. 685 00:46:45,219 --> 00:46:46,639 It was rolled up, okay? 686 00:46:47,138 --> 00:46:47,968 Mm-hm. 687 00:46:48,055 --> 00:46:51,175 They said, "We gotta load this in the car, we'll be right back." 688 00:46:52,101 --> 00:46:56,271 Then my Uncle Bill and Skippy went and picked up my Uncle Bobby. 689 00:46:56,355 --> 00:47:00,025 And my Uncle Bobby took me with a .22 690 00:47:00,568 --> 00:47:02,778 over there behind my grandma's place, 691 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,740 behind the big house back there in the woods. 692 00:47:06,073 --> 00:47:10,663 And while Bobby was shooting the gun in the woods to keep me occupied... 693 00:47:12,121 --> 00:47:15,961 I'm watching them two load this out of the trunk. 694 00:47:18,044 --> 00:47:21,964 And I kept saying to Uncle Bobby, "Why don't they just throw that in here?" 695 00:47:23,674 --> 00:47:26,474 'Cause we were standing there shooting at a trash pile. 696 00:47:27,178 --> 00:47:29,468 What was she wrapped in? Do you remember? 697 00:47:30,514 --> 00:47:33,104 It looked like a big blanket or something. 698 00:47:33,184 --> 00:47:36,154 It was white, if I'm not mistaken. White or beige. 699 00:47:37,104 --> 00:47:38,194 See, look, I was a kid 700 00:47:38,272 --> 00:47:41,402 and I don't remember no one getting murdered or nothing. 701 00:47:41,650 --> 00:47:43,610 Mm-hm. But then I grew up. 702 00:47:44,070 --> 00:47:48,240 And as I grew up, I realized that my Uncle Bill did it, 703 00:47:48,407 --> 00:47:52,367 Skippy covered it up, and Uncle Bobby kept me occupied. 704 00:47:53,788 --> 00:47:57,368 My Uncle Bill said if I told anybody, 705 00:47:57,458 --> 00:48:00,338 he would beat me to death and he would hurt me bad, 706 00:48:00,419 --> 00:48:04,669 and I was not to ever tell anybody anything or I would be killed. 707 00:48:05,925 --> 00:48:10,465 Those are memories that are burned in my brain that I can't... 708 00:48:11,263 --> 00:48:13,393 I can't point the finger and blame nobody. 709 00:48:13,474 --> 00:48:16,814 I can just tell you what I saw, how I saw it, who I saw it with, 710 00:48:16,894 --> 00:48:18,444 and when it happened, period. 711 00:48:19,647 --> 00:48:22,317 Nobody wanted to listen, you know, so... 712 00:48:23,776 --> 00:48:27,066 Look, this is all a child's memory that's in an old man's mind. 713 00:48:27,154 --> 00:48:28,954 I'm just trying to tell you that. 714 00:48:29,031 --> 00:48:30,661 That's the best I can give you. 715 00:48:42,962 --> 00:48:44,262 I had no idea. 716 00:48:44,421 --> 00:48:45,921 I had no idea. 717 00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:50,219 And, of course, I learned that after my brother's death, so, that, to me, 718 00:48:50,302 --> 00:48:51,552 was pretty hard to take. 719 00:48:53,139 --> 00:48:54,179 It still is. 720 00:48:55,266 --> 00:48:57,806 I guess knowing that it bothered my brother 721 00:48:58,477 --> 00:49:01,267 to the point that it did, and he didn't say anything... 722 00:49:03,274 --> 00:49:07,154 and I only learned it after his death, it just... 723 00:49:07,236 --> 00:49:10,986 To me, it just reiterates that he was afraid. 724 00:49:19,165 --> 00:49:22,995 Okay. Place on something, something, bake for ten to 15 minutes. 725 00:49:23,085 --> 00:49:25,245 I think it'll be okay. Checking. 726 00:49:28,883 --> 00:49:30,763 This is why I use a toaster oven. 727 00:49:32,052 --> 00:49:33,142 Oh, my goodness. 728 00:49:34,889 --> 00:49:36,059 What is in there? 729 00:49:36,557 --> 00:49:39,517 What's doing that? What's smoking like that? 730 00:49:40,644 --> 00:49:42,154 Okay. Where's the fan? 731 00:49:43,022 --> 00:49:43,862 Fan. 732 00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,110 Oh, that doesn't work. Shoot. 733 00:49:48,235 --> 00:49:52,025 Less than a month ago, I got an e-mail from a woman. 734 00:49:52,823 --> 00:49:53,953 "Hi, Gemma. 735 00:49:54,033 --> 00:49:58,163 I saw your name in the article regarding Sister Cathy Cesnik's murder. 736 00:49:58,412 --> 00:50:00,962 Her sister Marilyn is my best friend. 737 00:50:01,207 --> 00:50:04,377 I know how hard it has been for her all these years 738 00:50:04,460 --> 00:50:07,920 with not having closure regarding her sister's murder. 739 00:50:08,005 --> 00:50:11,795 Please let me know if you would be open to speaking with her 740 00:50:11,967 --> 00:50:14,757 regarding the research your group has done." 741 00:50:16,388 --> 00:50:17,888 I was just shocked. 742 00:50:18,140 --> 00:50:22,600 The mother of the family had just died, her name is Ann Cesnik. 743 00:50:22,937 --> 00:50:24,857 And there are three girls. 744 00:50:24,939 --> 00:50:29,149 Marilyn... is taking her time, 745 00:50:29,526 --> 00:50:32,816 and her friend said that she will communicate with me. 746 00:50:32,905 --> 00:50:35,945 She has my e-mail address and my phone number. 747 00:50:36,992 --> 00:50:40,252 My feeling is that she will know who that gift was for, 748 00:50:40,788 --> 00:50:44,748 maybe if the color green meant something to them. 749 00:50:44,959 --> 00:50:49,259 So, I hope that that's a nugget of information that will be new for us, 750 00:50:49,338 --> 00:50:51,918 and that she will contact me when it... 751 00:50:52,007 --> 00:50:56,387 When she feels comfortable with it, probably after the holidays. 752 00:51:23,581 --> 00:51:25,121 That's probably my call. 753 00:51:27,793 --> 00:51:28,633 Hello? 754 00:51:29,420 --> 00:51:30,340 Hi, Gemma? 755 00:51:30,421 --> 00:51:31,921 Hi. Is it Marilyn? 756 00:51:34,216 --> 00:51:35,676 I'm good. How are you? 757 00:51:37,970 --> 00:51:38,970 Mm-hm. 758 00:51:42,057 --> 00:51:43,767 No, no, that's okay. You know what? 759 00:51:43,976 --> 00:51:46,146 I... I totally understand. 760 00:51:46,895 --> 00:51:48,855 That's okay. Just let it go. 761 00:51:48,939 --> 00:51:50,939 Just do... Just be all over the place. 762 00:51:52,359 --> 00:51:54,609 I have to be honest with you, I was nervous... 763 00:51:54,695 --> 00:51:57,945 But I thought, "Well, Marilyn's probably more nervous than I am." 764 00:51:58,032 --> 00:51:59,242 I'm so nervous. 765 00:51:59,325 --> 00:52:00,325 Oh. 766 00:52:02,786 --> 00:52:06,666 I feel so blessed that you even asked if you could call me. 767 00:52:06,749 --> 00:52:08,129 I mean, I'm so honored, 768 00:52:08,417 --> 00:52:12,377 and I feel really emotional because you sound like Cathy. 769 00:52:12,463 --> 00:52:13,883 You sound like your sister. 770 00:52:14,465 --> 00:52:19,085 And her voice meant so much to me because of her... 771 00:52:19,178 --> 00:52:21,308 She's the reason I became a teacher. 772 00:52:21,722 --> 00:52:22,812 I... I get that. 773 00:52:22,890 --> 00:52:24,640 Yeah. Mm-hm. 774 00:52:26,352 --> 00:52:27,732 Yeah, and you know... 775 00:52:29,313 --> 00:52:30,403 Oh, my goodness. 776 00:52:31,273 --> 00:52:32,613 But do you think that...? 777 00:52:39,823 --> 00:52:40,913 Really? 778 00:52:45,746 --> 00:52:47,916 Yeah. I don't have my calendar in front of me, 779 00:52:47,998 --> 00:52:49,498 but I think I can work that out. 780 00:52:49,583 --> 00:52:52,423 You said you're coming on March ele... 781 00:52:54,338 --> 00:52:56,758 Marilyn, I can't wait to get together with you. 782 00:52:58,717 --> 00:53:01,717 You're so welcome, sweetie. All right. I'll talk to you soon. 783 00:53:01,804 --> 00:53:02,934 Bye. Bye. 784 00:53:10,896 --> 00:53:11,936 Hmm. 785 00:53:41,677 --> 00:53:46,137 I have heard a lot of indirect stuff about Edgar and Bill 786 00:53:46,223 --> 00:53:48,103 from numerous sources. 787 00:53:49,143 --> 00:53:52,313 But it's always been the kind of anecdotal, 788 00:53:52,396 --> 00:53:56,936 to use the term, "scuttlebutt" that I don't always trust as a reporter. 789 00:53:57,776 --> 00:54:00,236 But I don't necessarily discount them. 790 00:54:00,863 --> 00:54:02,453 If those suspects were involved, 791 00:54:02,531 --> 00:54:06,031 I believe it's undoubtedly as a flunky gofer. 792 00:54:06,118 --> 00:54:08,868 "Go get us a coffee. Go take care of this ugly chore." 793 00:54:09,413 --> 00:54:12,213 Very likely, he was called after the event. 794 00:54:12,708 --> 00:54:15,208 "We got a body we gotta get rid of. Help us." 795 00:54:15,627 --> 00:54:18,257 "I'll handle that for you, Father. You're a wonderful guy." 796 00:54:18,338 --> 00:54:19,338 And off we go. 797 00:54:19,882 --> 00:54:23,642 Going into this, we didn't know of any suspects other than Joseph Maskell. 798 00:54:23,886 --> 00:54:28,596 And we've come up with two: Edgar Davidson and Billy Schmidt. 799 00:54:28,682 --> 00:54:31,602 Both of them have families with compelling stories 800 00:54:31,685 --> 00:54:34,895 who are pretty convincing. 801 00:54:34,980 --> 00:54:38,150 So, if both of those stories are true, 802 00:54:38,233 --> 00:54:41,863 then both of these men were involved with this together. 803 00:54:45,491 --> 00:54:48,621 Well, let me ask you a question. So, you've spoken to Debra? 804 00:54:48,952 --> 00:54:51,002 Uh-uh. We call her Debbie. Debbie. 805 00:54:51,079 --> 00:54:53,959 Does her story and my story sound similar to you? 806 00:54:54,583 --> 00:54:57,673 It's two nieces saying, "My uncle was involved." 807 00:54:58,170 --> 00:55:01,420 You know, I mean, because, honestly, you don't know me from Adam. 808 00:55:01,507 --> 00:55:04,757 I could be making this up, and it's hard to keep your stories straight 809 00:55:04,843 --> 00:55:07,723 if you're making something up, so, I get it, you know. 810 00:55:08,013 --> 00:55:11,773 But my story is always gonna be the same. It's the same no matter what. 811 00:55:12,643 --> 00:55:14,903 Debra Yohn, when I spoke to her, 812 00:55:14,978 --> 00:55:20,358 she is as convinced that her uncle did it as I am that my uncle did it. 813 00:55:20,692 --> 00:55:25,782 But the weird thing is, the story is, like, the same. 814 00:55:25,864 --> 00:55:29,704 She was telling me that her uncle had a bloody shirt 815 00:55:29,785 --> 00:55:32,075 and claimed that he had a fistfight with his boss. 816 00:55:32,162 --> 00:55:34,962 And I'm like, "My father told my mother 817 00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,130 that he had a fistfight in a bar, that's why his shirt was bloody." 818 00:55:38,210 --> 00:55:39,340 It's just like, "Hmm." 819 00:55:39,419 --> 00:55:42,799 If you have two people conspiring and they're making up their story... 820 00:55:42,881 --> 00:55:45,841 I mean, that's where my mind went when we were talking about it. 821 00:55:45,926 --> 00:55:49,636 Maybe they know each other, maybe they did it together. I don't know. 822 00:55:50,597 --> 00:55:53,477 I believe my aunt because I know how Ed is. 823 00:55:53,892 --> 00:55:57,352 You didn't know if he was gonna be the good guy or the bad guy. 824 00:55:57,437 --> 00:56:01,067 There was no rhyme nor reason for any of the changes in behavior. 825 00:56:01,149 --> 00:56:03,859 It's just the slightest thing... 826 00:56:04,987 --> 00:56:08,657 could make him change, almost into another person. 827 00:56:09,408 --> 00:56:12,908 I don't think he did it alone, but he was part of it. 828 00:56:13,453 --> 00:56:18,713 It does not lessen my belief that my uncle did it, or took part in it. 829 00:56:18,792 --> 00:56:21,252 I should say that, 'cause it's almost seeming 830 00:56:21,336 --> 00:56:24,376 like maybe there was more than one person involved now. 831 00:56:24,923 --> 00:56:27,383 I didn't get the feeling that, "Oh, okay. 832 00:56:27,467 --> 00:56:30,717 Well, your uncle must've done it and my uncle didn't." Not at all. 833 00:56:30,804 --> 00:56:33,184 I think we both feel just as strongly about it. 834 00:56:34,725 --> 00:56:37,555 I don't know Edgar and I never heard that name, 835 00:56:37,644 --> 00:56:40,984 and I've seen his picture and it doesn't look familiar to me. 836 00:56:41,064 --> 00:56:42,734 I've never seen him before. 837 00:56:43,609 --> 00:56:46,779 The not knowing, I think, is harder than the knowing. 838 00:56:47,321 --> 00:56:49,031 Billy, he knew something. 839 00:56:49,323 --> 00:56:51,333 That secret went to the grave with him. 840 00:56:52,868 --> 00:56:55,578 This stuff in your mind, it wears you down over the years. 841 00:56:55,662 --> 00:56:59,832 It makes you feel really, really old, because you're carrying something, 842 00:57:00,584 --> 00:57:02,424 and you're carrying it all the time. 843 00:57:03,378 --> 00:57:06,668 Real people have been hurt, real people have died. 844 00:57:06,965 --> 00:57:08,175 This is what happened. 845 00:57:12,512 --> 00:57:14,562 If we collect all this information, 846 00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:15,930 what do we do with it? 847 00:57:16,016 --> 00:57:18,096 How do we link these people together? 848 00:57:18,352 --> 00:57:21,942 How do we link Maskell to our perp 849 00:57:22,022 --> 00:57:25,942 if we think Maskell may have sent him to murder Cathy that night? 850 00:57:26,693 --> 00:57:30,323 We've had to negotiate, I think, a very delicate minefield. 851 00:57:31,114 --> 00:57:33,204 Father Maskell's dead in the coffin. 852 00:57:34,326 --> 00:57:37,196 Billy Schmidt, he's dead now, too. 853 00:57:38,789 --> 00:57:42,129 But this whole issue of Edgar, 854 00:57:42,209 --> 00:57:46,959 we really shied away from this because the guy is living. 855 00:57:47,631 --> 00:57:51,431 If he harmed other people, he's certainly capable of harming us. 856 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:53,140 Maybe watching too much TV, 857 00:57:53,220 --> 00:57:55,260 it seems like when you've got all these clues 858 00:57:55,347 --> 00:57:57,977 and you got, you know, people intimately related with him 859 00:57:58,058 --> 00:58:00,478 who says, "I think he killed him," and they did this and that, 860 00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,940 that the police will swoop in and arrest him, 861 00:58:03,021 --> 00:58:07,651 but I guess there's still a burden of proof. 862 00:58:08,402 --> 00:58:13,872 Talking to him face-to-face would be productive in one way or another. 863 00:58:14,408 --> 00:58:18,998 I think you would either see somebody who is honest and wants to tell the truth 864 00:58:19,079 --> 00:58:22,919 or somebody who will play games, and that would be obvious, too. 865 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:24,250 Mm-hm. 866 00:58:27,254 --> 00:58:30,634 The best way to approach him would be to build up some trust, 867 00:58:31,633 --> 00:58:34,093 and to ask him if he would talk about what he knew. 868 00:58:49,526 --> 00:58:52,276 And I think, at first, he would probably toy with you, 869 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,120 but I think he would start talking. 870 00:58:56,908 --> 00:58:58,578 And then he would enjoy talking. 871 00:58:59,453 --> 00:59:03,333 And the more you get to know him, the more information he'll give you 872 00:59:03,582 --> 00:59:05,542 before he realizes he's hung himself. 873 00:59:09,838 --> 00:59:13,508 Kind of reminds me of a cat that plays with a mouse before it kills it. 874 00:59:14,384 --> 00:59:20,724 There's a little bit of an element of fun and teasing and enjoyment... 875 00:59:22,142 --> 00:59:23,352 before he strikes.