1 00:00:42,793 --> 00:00:44,633 This is not just a story. 2 00:00:46,797 --> 00:00:48,297 This really happened. 3 00:00:59,101 --> 00:01:00,691 He took me to her body. 4 00:01:05,774 --> 00:01:07,944 I know that I saw her. I know that I saw her. 5 00:01:10,279 --> 00:01:14,239 And yet... I've spent a lot of years asking: 6 00:01:15,075 --> 00:01:17,325 "Why don't I have all the pieces? 7 00:01:20,622 --> 00:01:22,962 Why didn't I do anything?" 8 00:01:27,462 --> 00:01:29,762 Knowing she's laying out somewhere. 9 00:01:34,052 --> 00:01:36,182 After Cathy Cesnik died... 10 00:01:37,472 --> 00:01:39,562 he now had me hook, line and sinker. 11 00:01:43,103 --> 00:01:47,823 And now the abuse became worse than it had ever been. 12 00:01:51,778 --> 00:01:54,528 There's a certain thing that you do in order to survive, 13 00:01:54,615 --> 00:01:56,615 and that is, you leave it where it's at. 14 00:01:58,285 --> 00:02:01,495 You can't think it, you can't look at it, you can't... 15 00:02:01,955 --> 00:02:04,705 You can't do anything with it, because... 16 00:02:05,584 --> 00:02:07,674 Except sever it away, put it in a box. 17 00:02:11,131 --> 00:02:13,221 I'm gonna use the word "dissociating"... 18 00:02:14,926 --> 00:02:17,006 as if I had separated out from it. 19 00:02:20,390 --> 00:02:21,640 The guilt... 20 00:02:23,393 --> 00:02:24,393 the fear. 21 00:02:26,521 --> 00:02:28,481 It was like I'd hear the click of the door. 22 00:02:29,816 --> 00:02:31,066 Everything would stop. 23 00:02:38,492 --> 00:02:41,082 I severed a part of me that stayed in that school. 24 00:02:41,453 --> 00:02:45,043 And I walked out, dusted my feet, as I was told to do... 25 00:02:45,582 --> 00:02:46,882 and I buried it. 26 00:02:48,460 --> 00:02:54,010 And it didn't come back up... until 20-some years later. 27 00:04:05,162 --> 00:04:06,202 I did everything right. 28 00:04:06,288 --> 00:04:09,368 This is the October 1st through 7th of '71. 29 00:04:09,458 --> 00:04:10,418 Okay. 30 00:04:10,959 --> 00:04:12,539 Uh... yes. 31 00:04:16,882 --> 00:04:19,432 I loved my high school years. 32 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,430 I loved my teachers, I loved my friends. 33 00:04:26,391 --> 00:04:31,101 I had no idea that this stuff was going on in that building. 34 00:04:31,813 --> 00:04:32,733 No idea. 35 00:04:35,692 --> 00:04:41,162 There was no public information out there until 1994, 36 00:04:41,656 --> 00:04:47,576 when one Keough student came forward with allegations of sexual abuse 37 00:04:47,662 --> 00:04:51,712 by Father Maskell and Maskell being involved in the murder. 38 00:04:57,589 --> 00:04:59,129 I have to confess... 39 00:05:00,258 --> 00:05:03,388 I was one of the people who said, you know: 40 00:05:03,470 --> 00:05:05,510 "I... I just don't believe all this." 41 00:05:07,098 --> 00:05:08,098 I was there. 42 00:05:08,809 --> 00:05:11,979 I never heard a word, never saw a thing. 43 00:05:13,855 --> 00:05:15,315 We were just oblivious. 44 00:05:24,616 --> 00:05:27,486 There was so much publicity when she came forward. 45 00:05:29,871 --> 00:05:31,331 There were lots of rumors. 46 00:05:33,875 --> 00:05:36,495 Everybody was wondering who was Jane Doe. 47 00:05:41,633 --> 00:05:43,473 I don't know. They'll take their time. 48 00:05:43,552 --> 00:05:45,352 Can we get a check on the window? 49 00:05:46,012 --> 00:05:47,932 I think I see movement in the window. 50 00:05:49,099 --> 00:05:50,059 Close the mid-door. 51 00:05:52,060 --> 00:05:53,900 Hurry up. Hurry up. Hurry up. 52 00:05:56,356 --> 00:05:59,066 Surprise! Happy anniversary! 53 00:06:00,735 --> 00:06:02,775 Where's Michael? Where's Michael? 54 00:06:02,862 --> 00:06:05,822 Where's the other half? Dad's parking the car! 55 00:06:05,907 --> 00:06:07,657 Oh. What a gentleman. 56 00:06:07,742 --> 00:06:09,912 Mom, go back out and come in with Dad. 57 00:06:11,454 --> 00:06:12,584 Come on! 58 00:06:13,665 --> 00:06:16,035 Happy anniversary! Surprise! 59 00:06:28,305 --> 00:06:30,095 Perfect. Okay. Now, sing. 60 00:06:30,181 --> 00:06:34,441 Ooh, baby, baby, it's a wild world Ooh, baby, baby, it's a bad world 61 00:06:35,854 --> 00:06:39,734 In the '90s, I would say it was pretty idyllic 62 00:06:39,816 --> 00:06:42,646 in the sense that I always knew 63 00:06:42,736 --> 00:06:45,696 that both my parents really loved me and were really proud of me. 64 00:06:46,448 --> 00:06:48,328 I loved being their kid, you know. 65 00:06:48,408 --> 00:06:51,288 I had everything I needed and almost everything I wanted. 66 00:06:52,203 --> 00:06:53,043 We were happy. 67 00:06:54,414 --> 00:06:57,834 My dad worked as a carpenter, as a contractor, 68 00:06:58,293 --> 00:07:02,633 and my mom was a Eucharistic minister, so, we were really involved in the church. 69 00:07:04,633 --> 00:07:07,143 Socially, it was... It was the center of our life. 70 00:07:07,385 --> 00:07:10,715 It was either going to the school and doing something with the church. 71 00:07:10,805 --> 00:07:13,635 It was church friends, prayer groups, and the kids would play. 72 00:07:14,684 --> 00:07:17,604 Our understanding was, is that the strength came from God 73 00:07:17,687 --> 00:07:20,897 and our relationship with each other through God and the church. 74 00:07:21,483 --> 00:07:22,363 Um... 75 00:07:22,859 --> 00:07:24,569 You know, that was, uh... 76 00:07:24,653 --> 00:07:25,823 It was just understood. 77 00:07:28,949 --> 00:07:34,159 It was... These were really very... special days. 78 00:07:36,623 --> 00:07:39,463 We used to laugh and say we were contemplatives 79 00:07:39,542 --> 00:07:40,922 in an ordinary life. 80 00:07:43,254 --> 00:07:46,634 We were walking around taking care of kids and making ends meet. 81 00:07:47,676 --> 00:07:51,716 But the depth of spiritual growth was... 82 00:07:53,890 --> 00:07:54,810 It was a gift. 83 00:08:00,397 --> 00:08:02,067 Aw! 84 00:08:02,148 --> 00:08:03,858 That's... That's it. Yeah. 85 00:08:03,942 --> 00:08:05,692 For the saxophone player. 86 00:08:05,777 --> 00:08:09,107 I met Mike right at the end of my senior year. 87 00:08:10,573 --> 00:08:13,833 He was like the lifesaver that got thrown in for me. 88 00:08:17,330 --> 00:08:19,710 But for the first nine years of our marriage, 89 00:08:19,791 --> 00:08:21,581 I would always say to him I liked him 90 00:08:22,085 --> 00:08:24,415 and I thought he should go out and find somebody 91 00:08:24,504 --> 00:08:30,644 who could really appreciate the love that he was... bestowing on me. 92 00:08:31,052 --> 00:08:33,562 And he said, "It's okay. I'll... I'll take what I can get." 93 00:08:50,030 --> 00:08:50,910 Now... 94 00:08:51,906 --> 00:08:53,986 this is the beginning of '92. 95 00:08:56,202 --> 00:08:58,462 I was about 38 years old 96 00:08:58,538 --> 00:09:02,418 and just finishing up a spiritual directing program. 97 00:09:07,505 --> 00:09:10,125 Mike and I were looking to buy a new house, 98 00:09:10,675 --> 00:09:16,305 and the real estate agent happened to be a classmate from Keough. 99 00:09:18,850 --> 00:09:20,350 We were in my dining room 100 00:09:20,977 --> 00:09:24,767 and she was asking about me going to a reunion. 101 00:09:26,107 --> 00:09:27,397 "You would love it. It... 102 00:09:27,484 --> 00:09:30,824 Everybody gets together. We're gonna do this different thing this time." 103 00:09:30,904 --> 00:09:34,124 And I was like, "No, I don't... I don't usually go to the reunions." 104 00:09:34,199 --> 00:09:40,159 And I felt like I was dancing to get as far away from that topic as possible. 105 00:09:41,456 --> 00:09:44,626 And I didn't understand any of that. 106 00:09:45,835 --> 00:09:49,335 I just knew it was uncomfortable, I knew I didn't like Keough, 107 00:09:49,422 --> 00:09:51,722 I knew I never went to any of the reunions, 108 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,800 and she made me look at it. 109 00:09:54,469 --> 00:09:55,719 Like, why? 110 00:10:00,975 --> 00:10:05,265 And I go through a couple days of feeling like something's not right. 111 00:10:08,066 --> 00:10:11,856 Now, remember... I was a prayerful person. 112 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:18,159 I had... I have prayer for hour, hour and a half every day... 113 00:10:19,994 --> 00:10:24,504 and I decided that Lent, I would do what I did best, 114 00:10:24,582 --> 00:10:26,292 which was take it into prayer... 115 00:10:27,252 --> 00:10:30,212 settle down, and just be still... 116 00:10:31,798 --> 00:10:35,468 and work with it on a prayerful level. 117 00:10:39,764 --> 00:10:43,894 So, I... I quieted down... 118 00:10:45,687 --> 00:10:48,767 and I let myself just kind of be. 119 00:10:51,067 --> 00:10:54,237 And with that came memories. 120 00:10:56,614 --> 00:10:59,164 It was like throwing up, that's what I would say. 121 00:10:59,242 --> 00:11:03,542 It was like this feeling of standing before an abyss, 122 00:11:03,621 --> 00:11:08,171 this black hole, and throwing up these memories. 123 00:11:18,636 --> 00:11:19,756 And at the end of it... 124 00:11:22,181 --> 00:11:28,191 was a memory that I had always had a part of it... 125 00:11:30,064 --> 00:11:31,444 but not the whole part. 126 00:11:36,613 --> 00:11:39,953 It was Magnus in this confessional. 127 00:11:44,871 --> 00:11:49,751 He asked me what was my name and could he look at me. 128 00:11:50,376 --> 00:11:51,586 I always remembered that. 129 00:11:51,669 --> 00:11:53,169 I knew it was always Magnus. 130 00:11:54,839 --> 00:11:56,379 Now what I remembered, 131 00:11:57,675 --> 00:12:00,545 he is now looking at me... 132 00:12:00,637 --> 00:12:04,217 and he's asking me questions about my uncle. 133 00:12:07,602 --> 00:12:09,442 And as he's asking me... 134 00:12:11,147 --> 00:12:12,227 he's masturbating. 135 00:12:31,167 --> 00:12:33,087 And I actually felt relief. 136 00:12:35,046 --> 00:12:36,456 "I can deal with this." 137 00:12:42,345 --> 00:12:44,635 I decided that I was going to go over 138 00:12:44,722 --> 00:12:46,852 and find my yearbook in my mother's attic... 139 00:12:48,101 --> 00:12:50,901 and I'm going to put a face on this. 140 00:12:52,563 --> 00:12:54,653 And then I could put some closure to it. 141 00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:59,360 And so I pulled out the yearbook. 142 00:12:59,445 --> 00:13:03,405 And when I opened it up, I saw Magnus' face. 143 00:13:05,076 --> 00:13:07,696 And when I saw Maskell's face next to him... 144 00:13:09,038 --> 00:13:11,328 all I thought was, "Oh, shit, oh, shit, oh shit." 145 00:13:13,334 --> 00:13:17,424 I wanted it to be the end of everything that I had to come to terms with. 146 00:13:19,882 --> 00:13:22,052 And instead, I felt like it was the beginning. 147 00:13:31,144 --> 00:13:34,944 So, in the course of X amount of months 148 00:13:35,023 --> 00:13:36,153 in '92... 149 00:13:38,109 --> 00:13:40,319 I had these memories. 150 00:13:42,071 --> 00:13:44,281 What I was remembering was so horrible. 151 00:13:44,365 --> 00:13:47,485 It was as if a 14-year-old came in and sat down next to me 152 00:13:47,577 --> 00:13:49,947 and started telling me what happened to her. 153 00:13:51,164 --> 00:13:53,084 And I was appalled. 154 00:13:53,166 --> 00:13:54,956 I thought for sure I was crazy. 155 00:13:55,501 --> 00:13:56,671 But at the same time, 156 00:13:57,336 --> 00:14:00,506 I was consumed by what was happening inside of me. 157 00:14:01,424 --> 00:14:03,764 I not only hoped that I was insane, 158 00:14:03,843 --> 00:14:06,973 'cause I would have rather it been that than this really did happen, 159 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:11,640 but I was a grown woman who had a sense of who I was. 160 00:14:12,060 --> 00:14:14,230 And I had my sense of what was right and wrong, 161 00:14:14,312 --> 00:14:18,982 and I had my sense of why, you know, you don't let that kind of thing happen. 162 00:14:20,318 --> 00:14:23,148 I had my sense of having children and I taught them: 163 00:14:23,237 --> 00:14:25,567 "You tell somebody if something happens." 164 00:14:29,118 --> 00:14:33,038 And I, as a grown woman, was condemning myself 165 00:14:33,122 --> 00:14:35,962 because I'm looking at this girl 166 00:14:36,626 --> 00:14:37,956 and I'm saying the same thing 167 00:14:38,044 --> 00:14:41,424 that I'm sure many of other people who are hearing this story said. 168 00:14:43,966 --> 00:14:45,466 "Why didn't she tell somebody?" 169 00:14:46,636 --> 00:14:48,636 "How could she let that go on that long?" 170 00:14:50,223 --> 00:14:51,393 "Why didn't...?" You know. 171 00:14:52,308 --> 00:14:53,938 "She must've liked it. 172 00:14:54,018 --> 00:14:55,438 She must have wanted it. 173 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,770 She must have deserved it." 174 00:15:09,117 --> 00:15:13,367 So, at this time I'm still very Catholic, but I've stopped going to church. 175 00:15:15,581 --> 00:15:18,421 So, I went up to my pastor. 176 00:15:19,710 --> 00:15:21,800 Father Art, he was awesome. 177 00:15:21,879 --> 00:15:24,299 He was really accessible, and he was young, 178 00:15:24,382 --> 00:15:27,722 and he was, like, a very down-to-earth priest. 179 00:15:29,595 --> 00:15:30,965 He was just beloved. 180 00:15:34,392 --> 00:15:35,602 We were friends. 181 00:15:37,270 --> 00:15:38,150 So... 182 00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:41,690 I wanted, I guess, in my own way, 183 00:15:41,774 --> 00:15:45,534 because I trusted him as a pastor, as a priest, 184 00:15:45,611 --> 00:15:51,701 as somebody who knew us... to tell him what I was remembering. 185 00:15:55,496 --> 00:15:58,246 He proceeded through the course of a couple visits 186 00:15:58,332 --> 00:16:00,882 to tell me that Magnus had died... 187 00:16:02,962 --> 00:16:07,972 but that Father Maskell was an active pastor 188 00:16:08,050 --> 00:16:09,340 downtown at Holy Cross. 189 00:16:21,063 --> 00:16:24,283 Art said that he wanted me to talk to Rick Woy, 190 00:16:24,358 --> 00:16:26,858 who represented the archdiocese. 191 00:16:28,529 --> 00:16:34,909 And at that first meeting with him, Rick Woy held a manila folder. 192 00:16:35,870 --> 00:16:38,370 And it had... It didn't look like it had anything in it. 193 00:16:38,456 --> 00:16:40,956 Maybe two pieces of paper, and he said I was the first 194 00:16:41,042 --> 00:16:43,842 to voice a complaint like this about Joseph Maskell... 195 00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:45,759 but that he believed me. 196 00:16:47,715 --> 00:16:49,335 He was so personable 197 00:16:49,425 --> 00:16:52,925 and told me that Maskell was very intelligent, 198 00:16:53,012 --> 00:16:55,972 and that if they didn't have everything in place, 199 00:16:56,057 --> 00:16:58,767 he would slip right through their fingers. 200 00:17:07,151 --> 00:17:11,951 In 1967, Maskell was moved from St. Clement's to Keough. 201 00:17:12,740 --> 00:17:16,700 He continued at Keough until '75. 202 00:17:17,537 --> 00:17:22,877 We were told that a new principal came in and began getting complaints from parents. 203 00:17:23,668 --> 00:17:26,838 She was known as a no-nonsense sort of nun. 204 00:17:28,631 --> 00:17:31,761 She told him that he had 15 minutes to pack his things and get out. 205 00:17:33,636 --> 00:17:35,096 Maskell was then assigned 206 00:17:35,179 --> 00:17:38,269 to work at the Catholic Archdiocese Division of Schools. 207 00:17:39,267 --> 00:17:43,267 The church records are a little vague. We've been calling them the mystery years. 208 00:17:43,813 --> 00:17:45,903 What was he doing from '75 to '80? 209 00:17:47,358 --> 00:17:50,858 In 1980, he was pulled from his assignment 210 00:17:50,945 --> 00:17:52,735 working with the Division of Schools. 211 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,200 He was sent to a different parish called Annunciation. 212 00:17:58,703 --> 00:18:02,003 In 1982, two years later, 213 00:18:02,081 --> 00:18:06,171 he was sent to Holy Cross parish in Baltimore... 214 00:18:07,086 --> 00:18:12,006 and he was there in '92 when Jane Doe came forward. 215 00:18:13,217 --> 00:18:16,887 I had a second meeting with Rick Woy. 216 00:18:17,722 --> 00:18:21,352 At this one, he had the archdiocesan lawyer with him... 217 00:18:22,435 --> 00:18:26,185 Kathy Hoskins. She suggested that I get a lawyer 218 00:18:26,647 --> 00:18:32,147 in case Joseph Maskell were to sue me for the things that I was saying. 219 00:18:35,323 --> 00:18:39,493 So, we found a lawyer, Steve Tully, 220 00:18:39,577 --> 00:18:44,327 and the church was paying his fee, and so, it was a mutual... 221 00:18:44,415 --> 00:18:46,915 They kept saying we were on the same page, all doing... 222 00:18:47,001 --> 00:18:49,671 You know, just kind of making sure everything's in place. 223 00:18:53,716 --> 00:18:55,756 Hey, Mom. Hi. Uh... 224 00:18:55,843 --> 00:18:58,853 Okay, now we're walking into the kitchen. 225 00:18:58,929 --> 00:19:00,889 Oh, look who it is. Oh, look. 226 00:19:00,973 --> 00:19:03,393 And we got... It's very bright. Hi, Aunt Jeanie. 227 00:19:03,476 --> 00:19:05,306 Hi, how are you? Good. How are you? 228 00:19:05,394 --> 00:19:08,444 I'm doing okay. Yeah. That's very good. 229 00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:10,900 When I started to remember... 230 00:19:11,942 --> 00:19:12,822 Hi. 231 00:19:13,694 --> 00:19:15,704 ...no one knows any of this is going on. 232 00:19:15,780 --> 00:19:17,570 How are you? Good. How are you? 233 00:19:17,657 --> 00:19:19,157 Fantastic. That's good." 234 00:19:20,284 --> 00:19:22,954 There were few people that I allowed in. 235 00:19:25,581 --> 00:19:26,421 Mike... 236 00:19:27,416 --> 00:19:29,126 I was afraid that he would say... 237 00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:32,510 When he would know these things, that I was a whore and he would leave. 238 00:19:32,588 --> 00:19:36,178 So, I always protected myself that that was going to happen on some level. 239 00:19:39,762 --> 00:19:41,682 This is so shameful. 240 00:19:42,223 --> 00:19:44,893 I was disgusted with myself. 241 00:19:46,894 --> 00:19:50,694 And I would say to Mike, "Mike, you know, you leave." 242 00:19:51,691 --> 00:19:53,651 He's like, "They did these things to you. 243 00:19:53,734 --> 00:19:54,654 You did not do them. 244 00:19:54,735 --> 00:19:58,775 I still consider myself the first person that was with you." 245 00:20:02,284 --> 00:20:06,044 And whatever we were going to do, we were doing it together. 246 00:20:09,291 --> 00:20:11,341 So, I had the archdiocese say: 247 00:20:11,419 --> 00:20:14,379 "We would like for you to make a formal statement," 248 00:20:14,463 --> 00:20:21,143 and that would help them remove him from... Father Maskell from his church. 249 00:20:29,437 --> 00:20:33,767 I am, at this point, only remembering these priests 250 00:20:33,858 --> 00:20:37,988 from around April, I believe, of that... of that year. 251 00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:39,320 So, here, it's September. 252 00:20:41,782 --> 00:20:44,082 And Father Maskell... 253 00:20:45,161 --> 00:20:46,831 I didn't know who the hell he was. 254 00:20:46,912 --> 00:20:50,422 I didn't... I don't know him, and yet I do know him. 255 00:20:53,461 --> 00:20:56,171 So, every time I went to talk to them... 256 00:20:57,298 --> 00:20:59,468 I had to also deal with the tremendous fear 257 00:20:59,550 --> 00:21:02,220 that Maskell was gonna be in the room. 258 00:21:04,638 --> 00:21:06,768 It was terror. 259 00:21:07,433 --> 00:21:11,773 And when you feel that terror, you know that it's true. 260 00:21:11,896 --> 00:21:15,356 You know that no matter what is coming up, no matter what the thoughts, 261 00:21:15,441 --> 00:21:17,531 no matter what the memory, you know it's true. 262 00:21:26,494 --> 00:21:29,754 So... I'm trying to do the right thing, 263 00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:33,710 and I'm feeling like... I will take this. 264 00:21:33,793 --> 00:21:37,383 I... You know, I'll take this and I... And I... I can give them a statement. 265 00:21:39,131 --> 00:21:41,721 So, it was me and Mike and we met downtown. 266 00:21:44,345 --> 00:21:48,215 And I took these seven memories with me, 267 00:21:48,307 --> 00:21:51,137 thinking that would be the statement, that they wanted to know 268 00:21:51,227 --> 00:21:53,057 what kind of stuff went on. 269 00:21:54,688 --> 00:21:57,898 I wouldn't wanna talk about these things with anyone, 270 00:21:57,983 --> 00:22:02,283 much less with a priest across the table and a lawyer and another lawyer. 271 00:22:02,863 --> 00:22:03,823 But, um... 272 00:22:04,573 --> 00:22:06,993 So, this is one of the memories that I read 273 00:22:07,076 --> 00:22:09,196 to the archdiocesan representatives. 274 00:22:10,329 --> 00:22:13,919 "Father Maskell had me come to the office one day when I had free mods. 275 00:22:14,583 --> 00:22:16,503 I was afraid to go in, but I did. 276 00:22:16,585 --> 00:22:17,835 He looked very angry. 277 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,170 He said, 'So, you're here. I knew you'd come. 278 00:22:20,756 --> 00:22:22,086 All you whores are alike.' 279 00:22:23,050 --> 00:22:26,390 He told me I was a bad person, and it made him so angry 280 00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:30,980 that there were people like me around that he had to do his part to stop us. 281 00:22:31,976 --> 00:22:33,056 He pulled his penis out 282 00:22:33,143 --> 00:22:35,813 and said God wanted me to receive the Holy Spirit 283 00:22:35,896 --> 00:22:37,396 and it was flowing through him. 284 00:22:37,481 --> 00:22:41,111 I wanted to throw up. I wanted to run. I hated being me. 285 00:22:41,193 --> 00:22:43,283 But I was afraid of saying no. 286 00:22:43,821 --> 00:22:47,581 He said when I was done, 'See? That is why God can't help you. 287 00:22:47,658 --> 00:22:49,948 You really like doing bad things. 288 00:22:50,035 --> 00:22:52,245 I need to do a lot of praying for you.' 289 00:22:53,706 --> 00:22:55,206 He walked me to the door. 290 00:22:55,749 --> 00:22:57,789 He said very soft and slow, 291 00:22:58,127 --> 00:23:00,547 'I know you hated that. I'm glad.' 292 00:23:01,255 --> 00:23:03,585 He gave me his blessing and I left." 293 00:23:24,987 --> 00:23:27,357 And they listened to me read these. 294 00:23:29,450 --> 00:23:30,910 And they took their copies. 295 00:23:32,912 --> 00:23:36,922 And he wanted me to point to somebody in a yearbook. 296 00:23:37,708 --> 00:23:40,088 "We really need someone to corroborate. 297 00:23:41,086 --> 00:23:44,086 You bring us a name of someone else who had this experience, too, 298 00:23:44,173 --> 00:23:45,473 and we can get him out." 299 00:23:49,345 --> 00:23:50,925 And I said, "I'm living in a hell. 300 00:23:51,013 --> 00:23:52,933 I'm not putting anybody else through that. 301 00:23:54,183 --> 00:23:56,943 Somebody else wants to come and talk, they'll come and talk. 302 00:23:57,019 --> 00:23:59,269 I'm not giving you any names even if I had them." 303 00:24:28,967 --> 00:24:33,757 Maskell was at Holy Cross parish until 1992. 304 00:24:33,847 --> 00:24:39,307 In October of 1992, after learning of the allegations from Jane Doe, 305 00:24:39,395 --> 00:24:44,015 the archdioceses told Maskell that he needed to go to a hospital 306 00:24:44,108 --> 00:24:46,398 named the Institute of Living in Connecticut. 307 00:24:46,985 --> 00:24:48,395 Institute of Living... 308 00:24:48,904 --> 00:24:51,244 um... clergy... 309 00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:52,990 sexual abuse. 310 00:24:53,075 --> 00:24:54,155 Let's see if we can... 311 00:24:54,785 --> 00:24:58,245 Okay. "'Treating Clergy Who Sexually Abuse Minors: 312 00:24:58,914 --> 00:25:02,214 A 16-Year Experience at the Institute of Living,' 313 00:25:02,793 --> 00:25:04,133 by L.M. Lothstein." 314 00:25:05,170 --> 00:25:07,130 When I was at the Institute of Living, 315 00:25:07,214 --> 00:25:08,674 I directed the Psychology Department. 316 00:25:08,757 --> 00:25:13,597 They asked me if I would help them to put together 317 00:25:14,138 --> 00:25:15,808 an in-patient program 318 00:25:15,889 --> 00:25:19,179 for the treatment of impaired and distressed professionals, 319 00:25:19,268 --> 00:25:21,018 including Catholic priests. 320 00:25:22,980 --> 00:25:24,190 And that's how it started. 321 00:25:26,442 --> 00:25:29,822 Typically, the archdiocese would send a priest, 322 00:25:30,404 --> 00:25:32,364 and they would say the person's depressed, 323 00:25:32,990 --> 00:25:36,160 the person is having difficulty in their relationships 324 00:25:36,243 --> 00:25:39,083 with others in the church, the person was having authority problems. 325 00:25:41,623 --> 00:25:42,923 And at one point, 326 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,170 the guy sitting in front of me, a priest... 327 00:25:46,587 --> 00:25:49,877 I said, "Well, I understand you're here for depression. 328 00:25:50,424 --> 00:25:51,264 What's going on?" 329 00:25:53,719 --> 00:25:57,179 And he said, "I'm not here for depression. I had sex with a 14-year-old. 330 00:25:57,264 --> 00:25:59,644 And I told it to the bishop, and he sent me here." 331 00:26:04,646 --> 00:26:08,066 He said... He says, "The bishop was afraid I was gonna be arrested, 332 00:26:08,150 --> 00:26:10,530 and he didn't want news to come out, so, he sent me here." 333 00:26:13,822 --> 00:26:15,282 I called the bishop and I said: 334 00:26:15,365 --> 00:26:18,195 "I just can't understand why you would do something like that. 335 00:26:19,369 --> 00:26:22,999 We're not here to protect the diocese from the embarrassment of his arrest." 336 00:26:25,876 --> 00:26:28,706 This is what happened over and over and over again. 337 00:26:29,755 --> 00:26:32,755 By about '94, '95, we confronted this issue. 338 00:26:34,384 --> 00:26:37,184 We basically said, "We're not gonna accept any more patients 339 00:26:37,721 --> 00:26:40,391 from the Catholic Church unless you send us the whole file... 340 00:26:41,099 --> 00:26:43,019 and every file you have on the patient... 341 00:26:43,811 --> 00:26:46,271 and tell us the real reason for why they're coming." 342 00:26:49,942 --> 00:26:52,072 We never got a single referral again. 343 00:26:54,988 --> 00:26:58,578 If the archdiocese had all these complaints about his behavior, 344 00:26:58,659 --> 00:27:02,329 ethically, they should have sent Maskell's history 345 00:27:02,412 --> 00:27:04,712 of these known abuse episodes with him. 346 00:27:06,333 --> 00:27:07,673 And we just don't know. 347 00:27:09,253 --> 00:27:12,383 You have to wonder what's going on. 348 00:27:23,183 --> 00:27:28,363 And so, in the course of the next, I don't know, month and a half or so... 349 00:27:31,233 --> 00:27:32,483 I've now remembered... 350 00:27:34,570 --> 00:27:38,910 not just the abuse that these two priests had done... 351 00:27:41,451 --> 00:27:44,661 but also there's other adults, like the police... 352 00:27:46,248 --> 00:27:51,338 and this Brother Bob... who had also been abusing me. 353 00:27:55,424 --> 00:28:00,354 I could go into my quiet and the memory would flow. 354 00:28:01,889 --> 00:28:08,149 I couldn't have anyone with me, because it was a very vulnerable feeling. 355 00:28:09,229 --> 00:28:12,359 I never remembered things when I was with therapists. 356 00:28:13,942 --> 00:28:17,952 And I was very aware that I did not want to contaminate 357 00:28:18,405 --> 00:28:19,445 what was coming up. 358 00:28:22,951 --> 00:28:26,371 This is now December 1992. 359 00:28:28,624 --> 00:28:29,794 Any interaction I had 360 00:28:29,875 --> 00:28:33,085 with the representatives of the archdiocese, 361 00:28:33,629 --> 00:28:37,929 I was being told that... first time that they had complained about this 362 00:28:38,008 --> 00:28:42,138 and if I could get a corroborating witness to what I was saying, 363 00:28:42,221 --> 00:28:44,471 they could do something more definite with him. 364 00:28:47,726 --> 00:28:48,846 It was all back on me. 365 00:28:52,731 --> 00:28:55,071 I was trying still to be the good little girl 366 00:28:55,150 --> 00:28:56,610 and give them what they wanted. 367 00:28:57,277 --> 00:29:00,447 So, I'm feeling really, like, I'm gonna give them what I... 368 00:29:00,530 --> 00:29:01,700 What I'm remembering. 369 00:29:04,868 --> 00:29:07,368 December the 9th, 1992... 370 00:29:07,955 --> 00:29:13,915 we had a meeting where I brought names of other abusers at Keough. 371 00:29:16,588 --> 00:29:20,010 They were very upset with that. 372 00:29:21,134 --> 00:29:24,434 See, they want a name of a girl who they can go up to and say: 373 00:29:24,513 --> 00:29:25,893 "Did this ever happen to you?" 374 00:29:26,390 --> 00:29:28,560 But I'd give them names of adults and they say: 375 00:29:28,642 --> 00:29:30,142 "We can't go up to someone and say: 376 00:29:30,227 --> 00:29:32,687 'Well, someone's, you know, saying that you abused them.'" 377 00:29:34,523 --> 00:29:38,613 Next day we called my lawyer, Steve Tully's office. 378 00:29:38,694 --> 00:29:42,614 He was, "What do you think you did? What were you doing the other day? 379 00:29:43,365 --> 00:29:46,575 It was a waste of two hours. They can't do anything with those names." 380 00:29:48,412 --> 00:29:50,832 Mike... he was infuriated. 381 00:29:52,207 --> 00:29:53,707 He called Steve Tully... 382 00:29:53,792 --> 00:29:54,792 and fired him. 383 00:29:55,460 --> 00:29:57,460 Said, "We don't need your services anymore." 384 00:30:06,555 --> 00:30:10,425 That night, I called Rick Woy, 385 00:30:11,310 --> 00:30:15,310 and I told him that Mike had fired Steve Tully... 386 00:30:16,481 --> 00:30:20,611 and that I wondered if he would meet with me in the sacristy 387 00:30:20,694 --> 00:30:22,074 and we could pray, 388 00:30:22,154 --> 00:30:25,874 because I always found that I got insight and direction with prayer, 389 00:30:26,450 --> 00:30:29,830 and that maybe we'd be able to figure out what to do with this. 390 00:30:30,829 --> 00:30:33,959 Rick Woy said to me he didn't think it was a good idea 391 00:30:34,041 --> 00:30:36,791 and that he suggests I get a lawyer. 392 00:30:38,420 --> 00:30:40,960 And that was devastating. 393 00:30:44,426 --> 00:30:48,716 He now has taken any hope... 394 00:30:50,474 --> 00:30:54,564 that this was still something that we were on the same page 395 00:30:54,644 --> 00:30:55,564 working together. 396 00:31:00,525 --> 00:31:03,775 So, Mike and I decided to hire the team of... 397 00:31:04,488 --> 00:31:08,778 Phil Dantes, Jim Maggio and Beverly Wallace. 398 00:31:10,535 --> 00:31:13,155 I grew up in a very small town in Kentucky. 399 00:31:13,246 --> 00:31:15,076 And when I was little, 400 00:31:15,165 --> 00:31:18,665 my two best friends came home and said, "Sister Mary... Whatever. 401 00:31:18,752 --> 00:31:22,802 ...says we can't play with you anymore. You're a heathen. You're not Catholic." 402 00:31:22,881 --> 00:31:24,471 I didn't know what heathen meant. 403 00:31:25,634 --> 00:31:29,554 So, to me, my view of the Catholic church was just... 404 00:31:30,180 --> 00:31:32,220 They're another church, and... 405 00:31:32,849 --> 00:31:38,189 I didn't see the archdiocese as this, you know, monumental institution. 406 00:31:39,856 --> 00:31:43,106 Jean, I think, came from a sincere desire 407 00:31:43,193 --> 00:31:45,613 to make them aware of what was going on 408 00:31:45,695 --> 00:31:48,905 and to ensure that this didn't happen to anybody else. 409 00:31:50,951 --> 00:31:53,451 She was in the process of recovering memories, 410 00:31:53,537 --> 00:31:57,537 and some days she was able to sit down and talk and plan, 411 00:31:57,624 --> 00:32:01,094 and some days she just said, "I... It's not a good day." 412 00:32:02,504 --> 00:32:05,174 But she was trying to put in place in her life 413 00:32:05,257 --> 00:32:08,637 the things that she needed to get her through this rough time... 414 00:32:08,718 --> 00:32:11,758 The therapists, Mike, her husband, her children. 415 00:32:11,888 --> 00:32:14,468 ...to support her to the extent she needed it. 416 00:32:21,148 --> 00:32:24,398 So, then we move into, then, early 1993. 417 00:32:26,361 --> 00:32:27,531 "Dear Jean: 418 00:32:28,238 --> 00:32:32,078 We need to emphasize again the importance of corroborating testimony 419 00:32:32,159 --> 00:32:34,869 regarding inappropriate sexual activity. 420 00:32:34,953 --> 00:32:37,873 We understand your reservations about doing this, 421 00:32:37,956 --> 00:32:40,576 but you also understand that our hands are tied 422 00:32:40,667 --> 00:32:44,047 in dealing with the priest unless we have corroboration. 423 00:32:45,422 --> 00:32:46,262 Rick Woy." 424 00:32:52,637 --> 00:32:54,097 And I feel really pressured now 425 00:32:54,181 --> 00:32:56,771 because they're saying this priest is gonna be back out. 426 00:32:59,102 --> 00:33:03,362 So, I had asked a friend of mine who had gone to school with me, Maria, 427 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:04,980 if she would meet with me. 428 00:33:07,152 --> 00:33:09,032 So, we met. She brought a yearbook. 429 00:33:11,239 --> 00:33:12,619 I told her what was happening. 430 00:33:14,618 --> 00:33:16,238 She opened up the yearbook... 431 00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:20,620 and she pointed to... 432 00:33:23,919 --> 00:33:25,169 a picture of Cathy. 433 00:33:27,297 --> 00:33:30,717 "You remember when she, you know, went missing and she ended up dead." 434 00:33:32,385 --> 00:33:35,385 And the whole time I'm... Like, I'm just in a fog. I go into a fog, 435 00:33:35,472 --> 00:33:37,642 a spacey place, and it's like "Ahh," you know. 436 00:33:40,685 --> 00:33:41,895 And I'm driving home... 437 00:33:43,355 --> 00:33:44,975 and I start to have this feeling... 438 00:33:46,399 --> 00:33:47,729 like I really loved her. 439 00:33:48,735 --> 00:33:50,105 And I'm like, something... 440 00:33:50,654 --> 00:33:51,494 I could feel it. 441 00:34:05,710 --> 00:34:08,710 The next day, we were having a family meeting. 442 00:34:09,297 --> 00:34:14,427 Everyone was gathering to talk about how my uncle's abuse impacted 443 00:34:14,511 --> 00:34:15,551 on the whole family. 444 00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:21,480 We were called to a meeting. 445 00:34:22,769 --> 00:34:26,189 And I was completely oblivious as to what was going on. 446 00:34:26,273 --> 00:34:28,903 I guess all I remember was going in, you know... 447 00:34:29,651 --> 00:34:32,321 thinking more I was going to show support 448 00:34:32,404 --> 00:34:36,784 and we were going to give Jeanie a chance to tell what happened. 449 00:34:37,576 --> 00:34:39,116 We'd go over and spend a weekend 450 00:34:39,202 --> 00:34:41,292 with my aunt and uncle. 451 00:34:41,913 --> 00:34:46,133 As it turned out, at some points during our visits, 452 00:34:46,585 --> 00:34:48,295 my uncle would take Jean somewhere... 453 00:34:49,254 --> 00:34:50,094 and abuse her. 454 00:34:50,964 --> 00:34:54,054 She had not really been talking very much with everybody about Maskell. 455 00:34:54,134 --> 00:34:55,804 We weren't really tuned in. About Keough. 456 00:34:55,885 --> 00:34:59,175 You know, we had heard... We had heard that there were memories 457 00:34:59,264 --> 00:35:00,104 about Uncle Tom. 458 00:35:00,181 --> 00:35:01,811 That's what the meeting was for. Right. 459 00:35:01,891 --> 00:35:03,941 We did not talk like that in my family. 460 00:35:04,477 --> 00:35:06,727 Uh, sex was, uh... 461 00:35:07,772 --> 00:35:09,362 I wouldn't say taboo... 462 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,400 but the level of conversation we had took a completely different twist 463 00:35:14,487 --> 00:35:15,567 during that meeting. 464 00:35:22,203 --> 00:35:25,333 I could feel it. I'm just kind of... As I go through the evening, 465 00:35:25,415 --> 00:35:27,375 something was coming. Something was coming. 466 00:35:29,002 --> 00:35:32,342 The whole time, it's like, "Push it down, push it down, push it down, push it down. 467 00:35:33,965 --> 00:35:36,925 I loved her and I killed her. 468 00:35:39,471 --> 00:35:43,681 I loved her and I killed her. I killed her. I killed her." 469 00:35:46,519 --> 00:35:48,269 She had to leave the meeting. 470 00:35:49,147 --> 00:35:50,817 And then I could hear her out there. 471 00:35:55,487 --> 00:35:57,857 My sister was like, "What's wrong?" And I said: 472 00:35:59,407 --> 00:36:02,577 "I killed... I killed Cathy Cesnik." 473 00:36:09,209 --> 00:36:12,499 So, now my family knows that I've been doing this archdiocesan thing 474 00:36:12,587 --> 00:36:13,547 for six months, 475 00:36:14,172 --> 00:36:16,472 and that I remember these priests. 476 00:36:16,549 --> 00:36:19,219 And so we go back into the room and she says: 477 00:36:19,302 --> 00:36:22,392 "Okay, the direction of this meeting is gonna change. 478 00:36:22,972 --> 00:36:25,812 I want you to know what's been going on with Jeanie. 479 00:36:26,601 --> 00:36:29,601 She's been going to these meetings. She's been remembering these priests. 480 00:36:30,689 --> 00:36:31,729 And, um... 481 00:36:32,816 --> 00:36:37,696 And now she's remembering something to do with Sister Cathy Cesnik." 482 00:36:39,072 --> 00:36:42,582 And with that, I fall into my brother Ed. 483 00:36:42,659 --> 00:36:45,369 I didn't know what she was talking about. "I killed her." 484 00:36:45,453 --> 00:36:47,833 In all honesty, there was just a second I thought: 485 00:36:48,540 --> 00:36:50,130 "You could not kill somebody." 486 00:36:50,208 --> 00:36:52,668 But the fact that she was saying, "I killed her..." 487 00:36:53,211 --> 00:36:55,631 You're told something that is just so hard to fathom. 488 00:36:56,089 --> 00:36:57,419 But nevertheless... 489 00:36:57,507 --> 00:36:59,587 I mean, it was... I believed her. 490 00:36:59,676 --> 00:37:01,546 That was a three-tier meeting to me. 491 00:37:01,636 --> 00:37:06,386 First the initial shock, then you had this... sex stuff 492 00:37:06,474 --> 00:37:08,234 that, again, we never discussed, 493 00:37:08,309 --> 00:37:09,889 and then you bring murder into it. 494 00:37:09,978 --> 00:37:13,568 And it's like, "Well... Well, what do you mean, murder?" 495 00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:24,660 You and I were, like... We became the detectives. 496 00:37:24,743 --> 00:37:26,543 We were going through... Yeah, in fact... 497 00:37:26,619 --> 00:37:29,579 We were going through microfilm, going back through all the papers 498 00:37:29,664 --> 00:37:30,964 to figure out what happened. 499 00:37:38,798 --> 00:37:41,378 As you looked more and more in the newspapers, 500 00:37:41,468 --> 00:37:44,048 then sort of linked up what she was saying 501 00:37:44,137 --> 00:37:46,767 with what we were reading in the newspaper... 502 00:37:48,558 --> 00:37:51,138 We thought, "Well, this makes a lot of sense." 503 00:37:52,353 --> 00:37:55,273 Here it is, a scandal that was going on over at Keough, 504 00:37:55,356 --> 00:37:58,436 so, Jean confided in this Sister and then the Sister ends up dead. 505 00:37:59,778 --> 00:38:02,108 And I believed Jeanie. So I was, like, raring to go. 506 00:38:02,197 --> 00:38:03,947 Let's... Let's get going. 507 00:38:27,722 --> 00:38:29,522 And we all have a dark and light. 508 00:38:31,768 --> 00:38:33,808 We all have this shadow. 509 00:38:37,357 --> 00:38:40,107 The part that comes into the confessional and says: 510 00:38:40,193 --> 00:38:42,783 "My God, I just can't believe I did this thing. 511 00:38:42,862 --> 00:38:47,202 And please, please, tell me what to do so I don't have to have it eat me up." 512 00:38:50,370 --> 00:38:51,750 Maskell was... 513 00:38:52,497 --> 00:38:53,787 He was feeding that. 514 00:38:56,167 --> 00:38:59,547 And beating away that part of me that went in 515 00:38:59,629 --> 00:39:02,589 knowing I could be forgiven because I was really a good person. 516 00:39:10,974 --> 00:39:12,434 In my remembering... 517 00:39:12,517 --> 00:39:15,347 This is a very difficult thing to come to terms with. 518 00:39:18,356 --> 00:39:21,816 You start to feel as if you're ripping masks off your face... 519 00:39:22,819 --> 00:39:24,989 and looking in a mirror as you're doing it, 520 00:39:25,530 --> 00:39:26,950 and it's very painful. 521 00:39:27,282 --> 00:39:29,032 Because you're not sure anymore. 522 00:39:30,118 --> 00:39:31,328 Who are you? 523 00:39:35,790 --> 00:39:38,330 It was pretty all-consuming in our house. 524 00:39:39,836 --> 00:39:42,296 Our life was like these two lives. 525 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,260 Like, there was the outer "everything's fine" life, 526 00:39:48,344 --> 00:39:51,184 and there was, like, there's a... 527 00:39:51,264 --> 00:39:54,484 There's a bomb going off inside of my house 528 00:39:54,976 --> 00:39:57,556 and everybody's just trying to survive it. 529 00:39:59,147 --> 00:40:02,647 There's times where we'd come home and my dad would be running cover. 530 00:40:03,484 --> 00:40:05,654 He'd be like, "We need to give your mom space." 531 00:40:06,279 --> 00:40:07,159 That was different. 532 00:40:08,323 --> 00:40:11,163 The best way to look at it is she probably felt she didn't have... 533 00:40:11,534 --> 00:40:12,914 She was raw, you know. 534 00:40:13,995 --> 00:40:17,665 And... And even us coming in and wanting to spend time with her was just painful. 535 00:40:20,084 --> 00:40:24,424 So, finally, I invite my sister Cass over 536 00:40:24,505 --> 00:40:26,875 and Mike to sit with me. 537 00:40:28,968 --> 00:40:31,548 Because it's like I need to remember what I did to her. 538 00:40:32,931 --> 00:40:36,351 So, we sat, and I allowed myself to get quiet 539 00:40:36,434 --> 00:40:41,274 with the part of me that was remembering that I killed Cathy Cesnik. 540 00:40:48,154 --> 00:40:49,574 Being taken to her body. 541 00:40:57,789 --> 00:41:00,579 Wiping at her face with all the maggots. 542 00:41:11,594 --> 00:41:13,014 And Maskell saying: 543 00:41:13,096 --> 00:41:16,056 "You see what happens when you say bad things about people?" 544 00:41:19,644 --> 00:41:20,774 When it was done... 545 00:41:21,813 --> 00:41:25,153 Cassie said, "So, you were trying to help her, 546 00:41:25,233 --> 00:41:26,233 not hurt her." 547 00:41:27,568 --> 00:41:31,738 It was another beating down of anything in me 548 00:41:31,823 --> 00:41:33,743 'cause I felt it was my fault. 549 00:41:34,450 --> 00:41:38,500 I had... acknowledged to Cathy that there was something going on 550 00:41:38,579 --> 00:41:39,579 that was upsetting me. 551 00:41:39,706 --> 00:41:41,286 She said she would take care of it, 552 00:41:41,374 --> 00:41:44,384 and she's lying on the ground and she's dead. 553 00:41:54,554 --> 00:41:56,394 After I remembered her death... 554 00:41:58,057 --> 00:42:00,177 I went and had a meeting with the police 555 00:42:00,810 --> 00:42:05,270 to discuss what I remembered and what details I could give them about it. 556 00:42:07,442 --> 00:42:10,402 I told them about the maggots in her face. 557 00:42:11,529 --> 00:42:12,989 They were, like, "Yeah, right," 558 00:42:13,072 --> 00:42:16,412 because the time of year, there would not have been any maggots. 559 00:42:17,410 --> 00:42:20,200 And I didn't feel they believed me then, 560 00:42:20,705 --> 00:42:24,955 and I doubt that there are people who will believe... now. 561 00:42:36,095 --> 00:42:37,095 Okay. 562 00:42:39,724 --> 00:42:40,564 This one... 563 00:42:43,144 --> 00:42:45,774 is a sword that would've been carried by... 564 00:42:46,314 --> 00:42:50,494 a supporter of Bonnie Prince Charlie in the Jacobite Rebellion. 565 00:42:51,277 --> 00:42:53,697 On one side, it's marked 1712. 566 00:42:54,238 --> 00:42:56,448 "Right and prosperity to Scotland." 567 00:42:56,991 --> 00:43:00,831 That would've been prior to the 1745 rebellion. 568 00:43:00,912 --> 00:43:02,582 So, this sword's been around. 569 00:43:03,206 --> 00:43:04,706 I'd love to know who carried it. 570 00:43:06,918 --> 00:43:11,208 I knew nothing about this case until 1993. 571 00:43:14,509 --> 00:43:15,429 I wonder what... 572 00:43:16,469 --> 00:43:20,099 "With new lead, police reopen old murder case." 573 00:43:20,807 --> 00:43:21,637 Yeah. 574 00:43:22,183 --> 00:43:24,313 This was our first story on this case. 575 00:43:26,521 --> 00:43:29,821 "Police revived the investigation this spring 576 00:43:29,899 --> 00:43:33,529 after a former student at Archbishop Keough High School 577 00:43:33,611 --> 00:43:36,071 approached them with a startling story." 578 00:43:38,741 --> 00:43:42,251 This was the woman later known as Jane Doe. 579 00:43:42,662 --> 00:43:47,672 And she was the first to bring to light the possibility or the possible connection 580 00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:51,500 of Father Joseph Maskell to the death of Sister Catherine Cesnik. 581 00:43:53,131 --> 00:43:56,471 It was a very nebulous story... 582 00:43:57,885 --> 00:44:00,805 because we didn't get a lot of cooperation. 583 00:44:01,597 --> 00:44:03,517 The police were not pleased. 584 00:44:04,475 --> 00:44:06,265 You know, it forced them into a... 585 00:44:06,352 --> 00:44:10,482 a very extensive investigation of a case that... 586 00:44:11,315 --> 00:44:14,065 was then already over 20 years old. 587 00:44:15,278 --> 00:44:18,778 The archdiocese was not at all helpful. 588 00:44:20,199 --> 00:44:22,199 They stonewalled us at every turn. 589 00:44:26,038 --> 00:44:30,418 And so, that story occupied us the next year and a half, 590 00:44:30,501 --> 00:44:32,171 almost exclusively. 591 00:44:43,598 --> 00:44:45,388 Father Maskell... 592 00:44:45,474 --> 00:44:48,904 he was at the Institute of Living in Connecticut, where they... 593 00:44:48,978 --> 00:44:51,058 He was evaluated for about six months. 594 00:44:52,815 --> 00:44:54,935 Around April of '93, 595 00:44:55,026 --> 00:44:59,526 he came back with this sort of clear bill from them, if you will, 596 00:45:00,114 --> 00:45:02,074 and they assigned him to St. Augustine's. 597 00:45:03,743 --> 00:45:08,413 Oh, we interviewed Father Maskell down at St. Augustine Church in Elkridge. 598 00:45:11,626 --> 00:45:15,046 He was wearing a green... 599 00:45:16,505 --> 00:45:19,125 wool golf cardigan. 600 00:45:19,675 --> 00:45:23,715 And of course, he was very urbane, very charming... 601 00:45:25,139 --> 00:45:26,389 and denied everything. 602 00:45:28,726 --> 00:45:31,846 You know, he said this was hysterical nonsense. 603 00:45:34,231 --> 00:45:35,981 When they put him back in a church, 604 00:45:36,525 --> 00:45:41,195 I think it sent a pretty clear message that they didn't see him as a threat, 605 00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:47,450 which... certainly was 180 degrees from the way Jean saw him. 606 00:45:49,872 --> 00:45:52,172 I have, at this point... 607 00:45:53,876 --> 00:45:57,506 said a lot of things about this man, Joseph Maskell. 608 00:46:00,091 --> 00:46:03,971 I have said that I remembered him taking me to a dead body. 609 00:46:06,013 --> 00:46:08,143 And now he's out in the public walking around. 610 00:46:11,102 --> 00:46:12,812 I was terrified for my family. 611 00:46:13,813 --> 00:46:16,653 It felt like someone was gonna come in my back window. 612 00:46:19,568 --> 00:46:23,818 The archdiocese position was that there was no corroboration. 613 00:46:24,490 --> 00:46:26,330 They did essentially nothing. 614 00:46:27,493 --> 00:46:30,203 But she had such a great support network. 615 00:46:30,329 --> 00:46:34,829 I mean, her big Catholic family all came behind her. 616 00:46:36,085 --> 00:46:39,705 And we started investigating 617 00:46:39,797 --> 00:46:42,547 and trying to find if there were any other victims. 618 00:46:44,051 --> 00:46:48,011 We were talking about how to get names of the alumni. 619 00:46:48,514 --> 00:46:50,564 And since I had gone to Seton... 620 00:46:51,392 --> 00:46:53,602 and Seton and Keough had merged, 621 00:46:53,686 --> 00:46:56,606 I went with Ed to the school. 622 00:46:56,689 --> 00:46:59,109 So, we went over one day... You'll... You'll love this. 623 00:46:59,191 --> 00:47:00,941 We went to the door. Ding-dong. 624 00:47:02,486 --> 00:47:04,696 Some nun answers the door in the convent. 625 00:47:05,448 --> 00:47:08,828 So, my wife, she says, "Well, I'm an alumni of Seton, 626 00:47:08,993 --> 00:47:12,123 and I wanna be able to contact a lot of people 627 00:47:12,621 --> 00:47:14,871 so we can get together and, like, have a reunion. 628 00:47:14,957 --> 00:47:16,997 And I wondered if you had any kind of a book 629 00:47:17,084 --> 00:47:19,384 which would have everyone's name and address." 630 00:47:19,462 --> 00:47:21,882 And she says, "Oh, yes, but it'll cost you ten bucks." 631 00:47:21,964 --> 00:47:23,554 "That's okay. We'll pay ten bucks." 632 00:47:23,632 --> 00:47:27,802 So, we gave them $10 and they gave us the entire alumni. 633 00:47:27,887 --> 00:47:30,717 And it became a family project for us because we took... 634 00:47:30,806 --> 00:47:32,636 We made up a little postcard. 635 00:47:33,309 --> 00:47:36,899 If you were alumni from the years of such and such to such and such, 636 00:47:37,521 --> 00:47:41,781 and if you had any experiences which you considered to be inappropriate, 637 00:47:41,859 --> 00:47:43,319 call her lawyer. 638 00:47:43,402 --> 00:47:46,662 And it was ever... Just about every sibling was in my dining room. 639 00:47:47,198 --> 00:47:49,448 And we sat around there and we just handwrote out 640 00:47:49,533 --> 00:47:50,663 names and addresses, 641 00:47:51,494 --> 00:47:53,294 threw stamps on it, just threw it out. 642 00:47:53,370 --> 00:47:54,910 Probably we sent... Yeah. 643 00:47:54,997 --> 00:47:56,287 A thousand of them? We went... 644 00:47:56,373 --> 00:47:58,423 All the little... All my kids prayed over them 645 00:47:58,501 --> 00:48:00,961 before we took them to the post office and all. We were on it. 646 00:48:09,553 --> 00:48:11,813 And so, we waited... 647 00:48:12,807 --> 00:48:14,677 to see what the responses would be. 648 00:48:24,026 --> 00:48:26,646 All right. I'll make the dough and you make the lemon... 649 00:48:26,737 --> 00:48:28,237 All right. Did you wash these? 650 00:48:28,322 --> 00:48:30,072 I scrubbed them really well. Okay. 651 00:48:30,157 --> 00:48:31,157 And dried them. 652 00:48:34,453 --> 00:48:37,873 I like to bake, like, probably three times a week, 653 00:48:37,957 --> 00:48:40,957 and I just find that it calms me down. 654 00:48:41,043 --> 00:48:43,173 She was making a pie a day for a while. 655 00:48:46,132 --> 00:48:48,262 It's cheaper than a shrink, right? 656 00:48:51,554 --> 00:48:56,734 In 1993, I got an anonymous letter in the mail. 657 00:48:58,227 --> 00:49:02,857 "Do you know of any sexual abuse that happened at Keough?" 658 00:49:04,108 --> 00:49:05,478 When I read that letter, 659 00:49:06,026 --> 00:49:08,646 I just got so excited. 660 00:49:08,737 --> 00:49:13,197 I... I ran around the yard and, and... I was so happy. 661 00:49:14,243 --> 00:49:16,793 I called the number on the anonymous letter 662 00:49:16,871 --> 00:49:17,751 from a phone booth 663 00:49:18,289 --> 00:49:20,539 because I was afraid to call from my house. 664 00:49:21,167 --> 00:49:23,627 Teresa called with an edge, you know. 665 00:49:23,711 --> 00:49:27,261 Like, "Why do you wanna talk to me and who the hell are you? 666 00:49:27,339 --> 00:49:28,969 And why should I talk to you?" 667 00:49:29,049 --> 00:49:34,049 "I don't know who you are, but I sure know a lot about Keough. 668 00:49:34,638 --> 00:49:38,058 And would you tell me who you're looking at?" 669 00:49:38,142 --> 00:49:41,562 And I said, "Well, why don't you tell me who you think I'm talking about?" 670 00:49:41,687 --> 00:49:43,227 And she named Maskell. 671 00:49:43,314 --> 00:49:46,864 I said, "I can tell you stuff you won't believe that that man did." 672 00:49:48,861 --> 00:49:52,111 When I went to high school, I was a straight-A student. 673 00:49:53,449 --> 00:49:56,539 I always thought I wanted to be a doctor or a lawyer. 674 00:49:57,578 --> 00:49:59,708 I was a nerd in the ninth grade. 675 00:50:02,208 --> 00:50:04,538 But the latter part of tenth grade, 676 00:50:05,085 --> 00:50:08,255 I would go to coffeehouses at Gibbons. 677 00:50:09,215 --> 00:50:11,675 Cardinal Gibbons was a Catholic all-boys school 678 00:50:11,759 --> 00:50:15,889 right next to Keough, and we would go there and listen to music. 679 00:50:17,139 --> 00:50:19,639 I was, like, trying to be a hippie, 680 00:50:19,725 --> 00:50:23,305 and I didn't wanna be with the nerds anymore, so... 681 00:50:36,992 --> 00:50:40,002 One day, my mom had gone through my purse 682 00:50:40,079 --> 00:50:42,789 and she found some paraphernalia. 683 00:50:42,873 --> 00:50:44,713 A pot pipe. 684 00:50:45,668 --> 00:50:47,838 My parents, they were hysterical. 685 00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:49,380 They could not be consoled. 686 00:50:50,256 --> 00:50:54,336 So, I went to Father Maskell's office 687 00:50:54,426 --> 00:50:58,176 the morning after my parents had found that in my purse. 688 00:51:00,266 --> 00:51:03,686 I thought that the priest could help me, you know? 689 00:51:06,855 --> 00:51:09,815 I said, "My parents are really, really upset. 690 00:51:10,442 --> 00:51:12,952 Could you please talk to them 691 00:51:13,028 --> 00:51:15,948 and tell them that I'm not going off the deep end 692 00:51:16,031 --> 00:51:18,531 and that everything will be fine?" 693 00:51:19,785 --> 00:51:20,945 I was crying. 694 00:51:21,537 --> 00:51:24,667 And he got up from his chair behind his desk. 695 00:51:25,165 --> 00:51:28,535 He said, "I'm not supposed to do this. 696 00:51:28,627 --> 00:51:32,757 I'm not supposed to touch... the students, 697 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,510 but sometimes this is necessary." 698 00:51:37,428 --> 00:51:41,178 And things just got bad to worse after that with Father Maskell. 699 00:51:48,856 --> 00:51:51,226 I was a very happy kid. 700 00:51:51,317 --> 00:51:54,607 I had a lot, everything I ever needed with my parents. 701 00:51:56,905 --> 00:51:59,985 But this was the dark side of the world. 702 00:52:01,618 --> 00:52:06,328 Like, a realization that the world I lived in was not real. 703 00:52:09,418 --> 00:52:11,128 He talked to my parents. 704 00:52:11,712 --> 00:52:14,212 I mean, he smooth-talked them really well. 705 00:52:15,132 --> 00:52:18,342 My father was a very, very strict Catholic. 706 00:52:20,471 --> 00:52:24,771 He completely was convinced that Father Maskell was saving me. 707 00:52:33,150 --> 00:52:35,030 Maskell called my father 708 00:52:35,110 --> 00:52:38,660 and told him that I'd have to see a gynecologist 709 00:52:38,739 --> 00:52:41,829 and that he knew Dr. Christian Richter. 710 00:52:49,625 --> 00:52:52,495 Dr. Richter prescribed douches... 711 00:52:53,587 --> 00:52:54,707 three times a week. 712 00:52:55,089 --> 00:52:58,469 And I nev... I didn't even know what a douche was. 713 00:52:59,510 --> 00:53:03,470 Maskell said that, "That's okay. You can do that in my office. 714 00:53:03,555 --> 00:53:04,385 I'll help you." 715 00:53:05,265 --> 00:53:09,645 He'd set up the douche bag and everything and administer it to me. 716 00:53:16,944 --> 00:53:21,874 Another time, Maskell told my father and mother 717 00:53:21,949 --> 00:53:23,989 that he thought I was schizophrenic... 718 00:53:24,535 --> 00:53:26,695 and he sent me to a doctor. 719 00:53:27,788 --> 00:53:33,168 He prescribed Thorazine, which is a very strong, strong drug 720 00:53:33,252 --> 00:53:35,962 used on schizophrenics. 721 00:53:38,799 --> 00:53:43,849 "This is going to help you release the devils from your brain." 722 00:53:50,769 --> 00:53:53,269 Father Maskell was a police chaplain. 723 00:53:53,355 --> 00:53:58,895 And there was one occasion in 1970, on Halloween night... 724 00:54:00,279 --> 00:54:02,909 my girlfriend was spending the night. 725 00:54:06,326 --> 00:54:09,156 Maskell had called my parents 726 00:54:09,246 --> 00:54:12,826 and told them that he was gonna take the girls out for a Halloween... 727 00:54:12,916 --> 00:54:14,916 um, police run. 728 00:54:19,298 --> 00:54:24,638 We rode down some wooded area, like a lover's lane kind of place. 729 00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:33,230 And there were some young people with the police shining flashlights, 730 00:54:33,312 --> 00:54:35,362 making them break it up. 731 00:54:35,439 --> 00:54:37,109 And as they went on their way... 732 00:54:42,488 --> 00:54:48,238 Maskell told my friend... to get out of his car. 733 00:54:53,290 --> 00:54:58,380 And Maskell stood outside of his car and I was raped by two police officers. 734 00:55:06,512 --> 00:55:10,062 It went on for my junior and senior year. 735 00:55:11,767 --> 00:55:13,727 And I was gonna be something. 736 00:55:13,810 --> 00:55:15,310 I was gonna be somebody. 737 00:55:15,395 --> 00:55:17,145 I wanted to go to law school. 738 00:55:19,566 --> 00:55:22,896 But I ended up getting married 739 00:55:22,986 --> 00:55:26,316 and having children when I was 18, 19. 740 00:55:27,407 --> 00:55:30,537 And my whole life was put on hold. 741 00:55:37,793 --> 00:55:39,963 I mean, you gotta remember this was many years 742 00:55:40,045 --> 00:55:43,875 before the whole Spotlight journalist thing in Boston. 743 00:55:45,008 --> 00:55:48,098 And so, once we delved into it 744 00:55:48,178 --> 00:55:50,678 and once we sent out our flyers and ran an ad... 745 00:55:52,099 --> 00:55:56,229 I think we expected to get some modest response. 746 00:56:00,482 --> 00:56:03,572 What we got instead was an overwhelming response. 747 00:56:08,824 --> 00:56:10,414 The P.O. Box filled up. 748 00:56:10,867 --> 00:56:11,907 "I got your letter." 749 00:56:12,286 --> 00:56:14,326 Or "I saw your ad in the paper." 750 00:56:14,871 --> 00:56:16,541 "I think I have some information." 751 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,210 August 13th. August 15th. 752 00:56:19,293 --> 00:56:21,673 August 25th. ...1993. 753 00:56:21,753 --> 00:56:23,093 To whom it may concern... 754 00:56:23,171 --> 00:56:25,171 I received your letter... In regards... 755 00:56:25,257 --> 00:56:27,047 In response to your ad... ...your ad in the Sun today... 756 00:56:27,134 --> 00:56:30,354 I'm aware of sexual impropriety at Archbishop Keough High... 757 00:56:30,429 --> 00:56:32,469 ...between '68... ...and 1975. 758 00:56:32,889 --> 00:56:34,219 I can offer the following. 759 00:56:35,017 --> 00:56:38,517 We got probably 40 to 50 people that contacted us. 760 00:56:39,605 --> 00:56:44,105 And thus began over a year of interviewing these witnesses, 761 00:56:44,192 --> 00:56:45,742 learning what their stories were. 762 00:56:47,321 --> 00:56:50,991 And everybody that called said, "We're talking about Father Maskell." 763 00:56:51,074 --> 00:56:53,664 Father Maskell practiced psychology, according to him... 764 00:56:53,744 --> 00:56:56,584 ...about Father Maskell. Father Maskell called me 765 00:56:56,663 --> 00:56:58,673 into his office and asked me to sit on his lap. 766 00:56:58,749 --> 00:57:00,709 He rocked me back and forth. ...amnesia 767 00:57:00,792 --> 00:57:02,922 regarding large portions of time... ...I couldn't wait to get out. 768 00:57:03,003 --> 00:57:05,513 Made me uncomfortable. Had me in tears, made me feel 769 00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:08,929 like I really did have these problems. I regretted not telling anyone. 770 00:57:09,009 --> 00:57:10,759 It makes me sick to think about it. 771 00:57:10,844 --> 00:57:12,224 He made me feel confused. 772 00:57:12,304 --> 00:57:14,474 I have information regarding Father Maskell. 773 00:57:14,848 --> 00:57:17,638 I think what surprised me in the response 774 00:57:17,726 --> 00:57:20,306 were the consistent threads that kept showing up. 775 00:57:20,395 --> 00:57:26,065 Anything from inappropriate conversations to the rapes. 776 00:57:27,069 --> 00:57:31,409 He was very big into examinations. 777 00:57:31,490 --> 00:57:34,910 He was doing pelvic examinations on these girls in his office, 778 00:57:34,993 --> 00:57:37,083 what he called pregnancy checks. 779 00:57:39,373 --> 00:57:41,833 And he had been involved in... 780 00:57:44,461 --> 00:57:47,051 gynecological care of students. 781 00:57:48,799 --> 00:57:51,719 Also, we heard from more than one person 782 00:57:51,802 --> 00:57:54,012 that there were other people brought in and... 783 00:57:54,096 --> 00:57:56,516 Who performed sexual acts and raped on these girls 784 00:57:57,140 --> 00:57:59,430 at the behest of Maskell, 785 00:57:59,518 --> 00:58:01,898 or certainly with his permission and his presence. 786 00:58:03,063 --> 00:58:06,573 There were police officers, there were other clergy members, 787 00:58:06,650 --> 00:58:09,240 there were local business owners, 788 00:58:09,319 --> 00:58:12,949 there were politicians that all were part of this network. 789 00:58:18,078 --> 00:58:22,958 The real screamer is that, here a family, kids and all, 790 00:58:23,041 --> 00:58:25,341 involved, do this and where's...? 791 00:58:25,419 --> 00:58:29,129 Where's the archdiocese going out and dusting the troops and saying: 792 00:58:29,214 --> 00:58:30,514 "Hey, was there anything there?" 793 00:58:31,383 --> 00:58:33,763 If we hadn't done that, who knows? It may not have... 794 00:58:33,844 --> 00:58:36,184 It may not have took off as much as it did. 795 00:58:37,848 --> 00:58:41,228 People coming forward, you would think it would give you some sense of... 796 00:58:41,977 --> 00:58:45,477 of... legitimizing what you're saying. 797 00:58:48,442 --> 00:58:52,282 But that all scared me more because it made it more real. 798 00:58:53,864 --> 00:58:56,584 You know, it's one thing when you think you're crazy 799 00:58:56,658 --> 00:58:58,738 and you're the only person that remembers this. 800 00:58:58,827 --> 00:59:00,327 It's easy to think you're crazy. 801 00:59:03,331 --> 00:59:07,211 But it wasn't crazy if other people had experienced it, too. 802 00:59:08,086 --> 00:59:11,126 And if it wasn't crazy, then this horrible thing happened to me. 803 00:59:11,214 --> 00:59:15,014 And if this horrible thing happened to me, oh, my God. 804 00:59:18,972 --> 00:59:20,772 How many other girls were involved? 805 00:59:22,809 --> 00:59:24,059 How many of us are dead? 806 00:59:24,144 --> 00:59:27,444 How many of us are lost in alcohol or drugs 807 00:59:27,522 --> 00:59:29,192 or in a mental hospital? 808 00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:33,700 What was done to us? 809 00:59:47,375 --> 00:59:48,915 The matter with you, dude? 810 00:59:50,337 --> 00:59:52,127 He just thought I was cute. 811 00:59:54,591 --> 00:59:57,011 Holy Cross Cemetery. Okay. 812 01:00:03,141 --> 01:00:06,231 It just seems like this would have been the place where you would... 813 01:00:07,187 --> 01:00:11,267 If you were gonna get rid of something, you would do it back in there. 814 01:00:14,069 --> 01:00:15,649 Maybe this is where it was. 815 01:00:22,702 --> 01:00:26,872 We heard the story that one day in 1990, 816 01:00:27,666 --> 01:00:32,456 while Maskell was at Holy Cross, there was a very bizarre episode. 817 01:00:33,296 --> 01:00:37,426 The cemetery caretaker was Mr. William Storey, 818 01:00:37,509 --> 01:00:41,179 and... Father Maskell suddenly told him to get a front loader 819 01:00:41,263 --> 01:00:43,473 and dig a hole ten-by-20 feet 820 01:00:43,932 --> 01:00:46,182 in the back abandoned part of the cemetery. 821 01:00:47,811 --> 01:00:52,731 Maskell started bringing in a pickup truck full of boxes wrapped in plastic. 822 01:00:54,234 --> 01:00:56,904 They put all these boxes into the ground, 823 01:00:56,987 --> 01:01:02,277 and Maskell told Mr. Storey to backfill it in and put grass on top. 824 01:01:02,367 --> 01:01:03,907 Nobody knew anything was there. 825 01:01:04,411 --> 01:01:07,211 Well, Mr. Storey was pretty street smart, it sounded like. 826 01:01:07,289 --> 01:01:10,039 And while Maskell was getting more documents, 827 01:01:10,125 --> 01:01:11,915 Mr. Storey climbed down into the hole 828 01:01:12,002 --> 01:01:14,632 and opened one of the boxes and looked at the documents. 829 01:01:18,008 --> 01:01:21,428 Father Maskell fired him a couple months later. 830 01:01:21,511 --> 01:01:22,721 Right. 831 01:01:24,639 --> 01:01:27,639 And in August of 1994, 832 01:01:28,018 --> 01:01:30,768 when Jane Doe came forward... 833 01:01:32,355 --> 01:01:35,565 Mr. Storey went to a detective who was off the record. 834 01:01:38,653 --> 01:01:41,323 We've nicknamed him Deep Throat from the... 835 01:01:41,406 --> 01:01:44,326 from the old Watergate inside source. 836 01:01:46,453 --> 01:01:49,293 Deep Throat says that Mr. Storey told him the story and said: 837 01:01:49,372 --> 01:01:51,422 "I know... I don't know what all's down there, 838 01:01:51,499 --> 01:01:52,879 but I know where it's buried." 839 01:01:56,046 --> 01:02:00,216 Deep Throat told us that we need to be careful for our safety. 840 01:02:00,759 --> 01:02:02,759 That this goes bigger and deeper... 841 01:02:03,386 --> 01:02:05,216 I think he said, "Than we can imagine." 842 01:02:06,598 --> 01:02:12,308 And that he doesn't wanna put himself, or more importantly, his family, at risk, 843 01:02:12,771 --> 01:02:15,981 by having his name used 844 01:02:16,066 --> 01:02:19,606 or telling us information that might get us in trouble. 845 01:02:28,078 --> 01:02:30,908 What was in that hole in the ground? 846 01:02:31,873 --> 01:02:34,793 Deep Throat, he knows what happened. 847 01:02:36,169 --> 01:02:39,089 I've interviewed him half a dozen times... 848 01:02:39,631 --> 01:02:40,921 been to meetings with him... 849 01:02:41,841 --> 01:02:44,471 never seen him say anything that didn't prove 850 01:02:44,552 --> 01:02:46,432 to be 100 percent accurate. 851 01:02:46,554 --> 01:02:49,724 Why don't you think Deep Throat would go on the record with anyone? 852 01:02:51,643 --> 01:02:54,403 I believe there's a lot of fear around this. 853 01:02:54,938 --> 01:02:56,898 I believe people have been threatened. 854 01:02:58,316 --> 01:03:02,646 I believe they have been shown weapons and told not just... 855 01:03:03,613 --> 01:03:06,663 "This could be very bad for you if you get deeply into it," 856 01:03:06,741 --> 01:03:08,911 but, "Your family could pay the price." 857 01:03:10,203 --> 01:03:11,373 I can't... 858 01:03:12,747 --> 01:03:17,337 ask Deep Throat to... confront his anxiety 859 01:03:17,419 --> 01:03:21,049 about the threats he believes he's received to his family. 860 01:03:22,007 --> 01:03:23,007 But I think... 861 01:03:23,091 --> 01:03:26,431 I think many people wish that he would come forward 862 01:03:26,511 --> 01:03:30,101 and stand up to the camera and tell the world.