1
00:00:58,626 --> 00:00:59,594
Blaine, can
I get your guitar?

2
00:01:04,732 --> 00:01:07,802
Check
yeah, one, two, AD.

3
00:01:07,902 --> 00:01:10,170
One, two. One, two.

4
00:01:10,270 --> 00:01:13,440
<i>♪ Well, blue jean, baby ♪</i>

5
00:01:17,679 --> 00:01:20,048
<i>In life, one thing</i>
<i>leads to another thing</i>

6
00:01:20,147 --> 00:01:23,250
<i>and that's all part of an</i>
<i>exploration of gathering ideas.</i>

7
00:01:23,350 --> 00:01:24,318
Hello? Oh,.

8
00:01:29,023 --> 00:01:32,459
I say my art has been
a songwriter, really.

9
00:01:34,529 --> 00:01:35,997
Rock and roll!

10
00:01:36,096 --> 00:01:38,198
<i>There's Glen Matlock,</i>
<i>formerly with the Sex Pistols.</i>

11
00:01:38,298 --> 00:01:40,835
Glen, you've already got a
very good catalog of songs,

12
00:01:40,935 --> 00:01:43,905
having written which of
The Sex Pistols' hits?

13
00:01:44,005 --> 00:01:46,373
We got an old English
folksong we gonna play for you.

14
00:01:46,473 --> 00:01:47,575
I think you might know it.

15
00:01:47,675 --> 00:01:49,142
One,
two, three, four.

16
00:01:57,986 --> 00:01:58,820
People like to paint me

17
00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:00,253
as the guy from the Six Pistols

18
00:02:00,354 --> 00:02:04,257
that nobody knows, but
that ain't quite true.

19
00:02:04,358 --> 00:02:06,961
<i>♪ God save the Queen ♪</i>

20
00:02:07,061 --> 00:02:10,297
<i>♪ The fascist regime ♪</i>

21
00:02:10,397 --> 00:02:11,866
<i>♪ They made you ♪</i>

22
00:02:11,966 --> 00:02:13,668
Pistols, they put on a
brash crude display of music.

23
00:02:13,768 --> 00:02:14,669
<i>When</i>
<i>the Sex Pistols,</i>

24
00:02:14,769 --> 00:02:16,571
<i>with lead singer Johnny Rotten,</i>

25
00:02:16,671 --> 00:02:20,108
<i>suddenly made punk</i>
<i>music front page news,</i>

26
00:02:20,207 --> 00:02:22,275
<i>they outraged</i>
<i>pretty well everyone</i>

27
00:02:22,376 --> 00:02:24,912
Complacent,
apathetic old.

28
00:02:25,013 --> 00:02:26,714
People couldn't believe
what they were seeing

29
00:02:26,814 --> 00:02:29,282
'cause it was no one had
seen anything like this.

30
00:02:29,383 --> 00:02:30,885
One of the most reviewed

31
00:02:30,985 --> 00:02:32,754
and most reviled rock
phenomenon of recent weeks.

32
00:02:32,854 --> 00:02:33,755
Their
records are among

33
00:02:33,855 --> 00:02:35,657
the most popular in England.

34
00:02:35,757 --> 00:02:38,660
The Pistols were something
completely different.

35
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:43,131
The classic rejection
of the status quo

36
00:02:43,230 --> 00:02:47,635
into a new, more
aggressive, more heartfelt,

37
00:02:47,735 --> 00:02:50,404
more passionate expression.

38
00:02:50,505 --> 00:02:53,107
It was fresh. It was naughty.

39
00:02:53,206 --> 00:02:54,075
Dirty fucker.

40
00:02:54,174 --> 00:02:55,275
What a clever boy.

41
00:02:55,375 --> 00:02:56,511
What a fuckin' rotter.

42
00:02:56,611 --> 00:02:58,079
Well, that's
it for tonight.

43
00:02:58,178 --> 00:03:01,248
We didn't realize how much
we were gonna shake things up.

44
00:03:01,348 --> 00:03:02,950
People say they can't play.

45
00:03:03,051 --> 00:03:06,154
You know, the Pistol songs
are largely three chord songs,

46
00:03:06,253 --> 00:03:08,623
but it's three
chords and the truth.

47
00:03:08,723 --> 00:03:10,792
They made one goddamn album.

48
00:03:10,892 --> 00:03:13,027
It's one of the most
classic records of all time.

49
00:03:14,662 --> 00:03:16,463
<i>♪ Oh, Lord God, have mercy ♪</i>

50
00:03:16,564 --> 00:03:18,966
Glen, I could tell
if he understood

51
00:03:19,067 --> 00:03:22,570
the power of the
instrument he was playing.

52
00:03:22,670 --> 00:03:25,372
I think he is the
unsung hero of the band.

53
00:03:25,472 --> 00:03:27,407
A lot of people
didn't quite realize

54
00:03:27,508 --> 00:03:28,843
what he brought to the group.

55
00:03:30,078 --> 00:03:32,412
We were kind of fed
a Sid Vicious story.

56
00:03:32,513 --> 00:03:33,981
That Sid Vicious was punk rock

57
00:03:34,082 --> 00:03:35,583
and Sid Vicious is
the Sex Pistols.

58
00:03:35,683 --> 00:03:38,251
And we found out Sid
Vicious could not play bass,

59
00:03:38,351 --> 00:03:40,755
did not play bass and
there's some other guy

60
00:03:40,855 --> 00:03:43,825
named Glen Matlock and
we're like, who's he?

61
00:03:43,925 --> 00:03:46,527
There was so many
kind of people involved

62
00:03:46,627 --> 00:03:48,129
that they've all got
their own take on things.

63
00:03:48,228 --> 00:03:51,132
So this is my side of the story.

64
00:03:51,231 --> 00:03:54,068
You are jogging my
memory, I must say.

65
00:03:55,770 --> 00:03:57,839
It's amazing how much
you do remember and what.

66
00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:01,042
<i>Everyone knows the story.</i>

67
00:04:01,142 --> 00:04:03,243
I mean we're fucking
sick of talking about it.

68
00:04:03,343 --> 00:04:05,079
It's the same old shit.

69
00:04:05,179 --> 00:04:07,247
Told the story a million times.

70
00:04:09,016 --> 00:04:10,350
Okay, quiet on the set.

71
00:04:10,450 --> 00:04:12,019
Action. Okay.

72
00:04:20,094 --> 00:04:22,230
Let's, yeah, we gotta kinda
set the scene a little bit.

73
00:04:32,206 --> 00:04:35,610
Here we are walking up

74
00:04:35,710 --> 00:04:39,046
Ravensworth Road in
Northwest London.

75
00:04:39,147 --> 00:04:41,649
It was where I was brought
up till I was about 16.

76
00:04:41,749 --> 00:04:44,685
I used to live up there
with my mom and dad.

77
00:04:44,786 --> 00:04:46,286
I wouldn't mind
having a look round

78
00:04:46,386 --> 00:04:48,256
if the set of new
inhabitants let us in.

79
00:04:48,355 --> 00:04:50,290
Wow.
Lead the way around.

80
00:04:50,390 --> 00:04:52,325
So this was
my mom and dad's room.

81
00:04:53,828 --> 00:04:58,431
This was my bedroom
from about here to there

82
00:04:58,533 --> 00:05:00,333
and we didn't have
a bathroom then.

83
00:05:00,433 --> 00:05:01,803
Really?
And that was it.

84
00:05:03,436 --> 00:05:04,572
Oh, hang on, hang on.

85
00:05:06,707 --> 00:05:08,576
The Pistol's
were my favorite ever band.

86
00:05:10,244 --> 00:05:12,079
It was a bit short
of the plumbing.

87
00:05:12,180 --> 00:05:14,314
We had like a tin bath we
had to get out once a week.

88
00:05:14,414 --> 00:05:17,285
And used to run a hose
out from the scullery,

89
00:05:17,417 --> 00:05:18,920
which is a tiny little kitchen,

90
00:05:19,020 --> 00:05:23,490
into the tin bath in
front of the telly.

91
00:05:23,591 --> 00:05:26,194
My dad was a sort of
semiskilled worker,

92
00:05:26,294 --> 00:05:28,830
had a few different jobs.

93
00:05:28,930 --> 00:05:31,732
He worked for Rolls Royce
as a coach builder.

94
00:05:31,833 --> 00:05:34,101
My mum worked part-time
at the powder puff factory

95
00:05:34,202 --> 00:05:38,806
with my Nan making powder
puffs for compacts and things.

96
00:05:38,906 --> 00:05:42,109
Then the next street, all my
mates I went to school with.

97
00:05:42,210 --> 00:05:44,545
You know we was always
out playing football

98
00:05:44,645 --> 00:05:46,581
and it is got very high tech,

99
00:05:48,015 --> 00:05:49,317
there's a goal-mount painted,

100
00:05:49,416 --> 00:05:51,686
but we just used to
put our jackets down.

101
00:05:51,786 --> 00:05:53,087
And then there was
one of the guys,

102
00:05:53,187 --> 00:05:55,523
who was a Latin member
of the Skatellites.

103
00:05:55,623 --> 00:05:56,691
He was older than us
and he used to come

104
00:05:56,791 --> 00:05:58,893
and play football in the street.

105
00:05:58,993 --> 00:06:01,229
<i>♪ Skinheads a</i>
<i>mashup London Town ♪</i>

106
00:06:01,329 --> 00:06:02,563
<i>♪ Skinhead to me ♪</i>

107
00:06:02,663 --> 00:06:04,565
There was a lot of
second generation,

108
00:06:04,665 --> 00:06:06,399
West Indian kids around there

109
00:06:06,499 --> 00:06:09,604
and it was my introduction
to Bluebeat and SKA.

110
00:06:09,704 --> 00:06:11,739
And their moms and
dads were all hip

111
00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,374
to King Tubby and the Skatellites
and things like that.

112
00:06:14,474 --> 00:06:17,078
In the summer, now
all the windows open

113
00:06:17,178 --> 00:06:21,249
and you'd hear "Madness"
blasting out by Laurel Aitken.

114
00:06:21,349 --> 00:06:22,850
But that was cool.

115
00:06:22,950 --> 00:06:25,152
And all the kids had a
little transistor radio

116
00:06:25,253 --> 00:06:26,787
underneath your pillow at night.

117
00:06:26,888 --> 00:06:28,455
And we didn't have a
proper radio station

118
00:06:28,556 --> 00:06:30,157
that played pop music,

119
00:06:30,258 --> 00:06:33,393
but there was all these pirate
radio stations sprung up.

120
00:06:33,493 --> 00:06:35,495
It was just really
a exciting time.

121
00:06:35,596 --> 00:06:38,532
And then this TV show come
out, "Ready, Steady, Go".

122
00:06:43,971 --> 00:06:46,974
Bands like The Kinks and
The Yardbirds and Stones

123
00:06:47,074 --> 00:06:50,578
and the Beatles,
Smokey Robinson,

124
00:06:50,678 --> 00:06:53,614
Martha Reeves and the
Vandellas, the Supremes

125
00:06:54,447 --> 00:06:55,616
and the Small Faces.

126
00:06:58,986 --> 00:07:01,122
The Small Faces were these
kind of little Herberts

127
00:07:01,222 --> 00:07:02,290
from the East End of London,

128
00:07:02,390 --> 00:07:04,392
but they were the
height of cool.

129
00:07:04,491 --> 00:07:06,827
<i>♪ I just sit here everyday ♪</i>

130
00:07:06,928 --> 00:07:09,063
Some kids like me
picked up on that,

131
00:07:09,163 --> 00:07:12,432
all in this kind of mixture
of stuff that was going on.

132
00:07:12,533 --> 00:07:16,737
And that's sowed the seeds
of my musical awakening.

133
00:07:19,807 --> 00:07:21,275
You know I didn't have
any brothers or sisters

134
00:07:21,375 --> 00:07:26,446
and getting a guitar for
Christmas when I was 10 or 11.

135
00:07:26,847 --> 00:07:28,683
You know when
everybody goes home

136
00:07:28,783 --> 00:07:30,284
after playing
football in the street

137
00:07:30,384 --> 00:07:31,886
at eight, nine o'clock at
night, you've got your guitar

138
00:07:31,986 --> 00:07:33,688
and you got your
transistor radio

139
00:07:33,788 --> 00:07:37,024
and you start hearing songs
that you can relate to.

140
00:07:42,495 --> 00:07:45,266
But when I was getting 15, 16,

141
00:07:45,366 --> 00:07:47,234
we all got jobs in

142
00:07:47,335 --> 00:07:49,804
this department store
called Whiteleys.

143
00:07:49,904 --> 00:07:51,639
A crowd of us worked there

144
00:07:51,739 --> 00:07:53,674
and one Friday night we
went out to The Scene.

145
00:07:55,109 --> 00:07:57,244
There was a band called Ace.

146
00:07:57,345 --> 00:08:00,281
<i>♪ How long has this</i>
<i>been going on ♪</i>

147
00:08:00,381 --> 00:08:01,949
<i>♪ Has this been going on ♪</i>

148
00:08:02,049 --> 00:08:03,985
And we watched them
and stayed up all night.

149
00:08:04,085 --> 00:08:05,720
That's when I started thinking,

150
00:08:05,820 --> 00:08:08,155
oh, there must be a
little bit more in life

151
00:08:08,255 --> 00:08:10,358
than working in the
department store.

152
00:08:10,458 --> 00:08:13,160
Around about the
same time my uncle,

153
00:08:13,260 --> 00:08:15,896
who was a bit of a ducker
and diver with things,

154
00:08:15,997 --> 00:08:16,998
appeared round my Nan's once

155
00:08:17,098 --> 00:08:20,134
with this big, long flat case.

156
00:08:20,234 --> 00:08:21,135
I said, "What's that?"

157
00:08:21,235 --> 00:08:22,770
And he opened it up.

158
00:08:22,870 --> 00:08:25,740
It was this Fender Precision
Bass and it was beautiful.

159
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,476
Sunburst with all the
chrome bits on it.

160
00:08:28,576 --> 00:08:30,144
I said, "Where'd you get it?"

161
00:08:30,244 --> 00:08:31,445
And he said, "Don't ask."

162
00:08:31,545 --> 00:08:32,613
When you get a bass
and you get it home,

163
00:08:33,714 --> 00:08:35,349
right, it sounds like that.

164
00:08:37,084 --> 00:08:38,819
And you can't hear
the fucking thing.

165
00:08:38,919 --> 00:08:40,788
And then what do you do,

166
00:08:40,888 --> 00:08:43,891
you can kind of jam it
against the wardrobe.

167
00:08:45,426 --> 00:08:46,727
You can hear it a bit
more, so you do that.

168
00:08:46,827 --> 00:08:48,896
The thing is, is
playing bass by yourself

169
00:08:48,996 --> 00:08:50,731
is a bit like having a wank.

170
00:08:50,831 --> 00:08:53,768
Boom, boom, boom, boom and
it's a bit boring really.

171
00:08:53,868 --> 00:08:55,669
You need someone to play with.

172
00:08:56,505 --> 00:08:58,172
<i>♪ Yes, it's all right ♪</i>

173
00:08:58,272 --> 00:09:01,642
<i>♪ All or nothing ♪</i>

174
00:09:01,742 --> 00:09:03,677
So I started to
be on the lookout.

175
00:09:04,879 --> 00:09:06,380
I'd left school by then.

176
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,816
I was waiting to start art
college and I wanted a job.

177
00:09:08,916 --> 00:09:10,985
And I'd heard about the
shop down at King's Road,

178
00:09:11,085 --> 00:09:12,486
Let It Rock.

179
00:09:12,586 --> 00:09:13,854
And it had big sign outside,

180
00:09:13,954 --> 00:09:15,956
it said too fast to
live, too young to die.

181
00:09:16,057 --> 00:09:17,858
And I walked in

182
00:09:17,958 --> 00:09:19,427
and it was like my Gran's
front room from the '50s.

183
00:09:19,528 --> 00:09:22,596
They had a radiogram, all
these drape jackets hanging up

184
00:09:22,696 --> 00:09:25,699
and some Brothel Creeper shoes.

185
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,469
Brothel Creeper is
generally a suede shoe

186
00:09:28,569 --> 00:09:30,337
with a thick crepe sole,

187
00:09:30,438 --> 00:09:32,640
which supposedly makes no noise

188
00:09:32,740 --> 00:09:34,008
when you're creeping
around a brothel.

189
00:09:34,108 --> 00:09:36,077
And that's what all
the Teddy Boys wore.

190
00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,049
Well a Teddy Boy is
from the name Edward.

191
00:09:43,284 --> 00:09:44,452
In the '20s and '30s,

192
00:09:44,553 --> 00:09:47,021
all the upper-class
people of England

193
00:09:47,121 --> 00:09:48,856
sort of dressed in
this Edwardian look

194
00:09:48,956 --> 00:09:50,691
because we had the King
Edward at the time,

195
00:09:50,791 --> 00:09:53,627
you know with longer
coats and velvet collars.

196
00:09:53,727 --> 00:09:55,463
And then all the
rock and rollers,

197
00:09:55,564 --> 00:09:56,897
when Bill Haley came over,

198
00:09:56,997 --> 00:09:59,200
they kind of adopted
this kind of look

199
00:09:59,300 --> 00:10:00,468
and they were Teddy Boys.

200
00:10:00,569 --> 00:10:01,268
Well, we're Teddy Boys.

201
00:10:01,368 --> 00:10:02,770
We like rock and roll

202
00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:03,904
because we think there's
never been a better music.

203
00:10:04,004 --> 00:10:05,005
And we like our style of dress,

204
00:10:05,106 --> 00:10:06,640
because we think it's the best.

205
00:10:06,740 --> 00:10:10,444
Let It Rock, it was basically
a sort of a Teddy Boy shop

206
00:10:10,545 --> 00:10:13,180
and there was a guy in there
and he said, "Can I help you?"

207
00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,050
I said, "You don't need
anybody to work here, do you?"

208
00:10:16,150 --> 00:10:19,386
And he said, "Well, as it
happens, I'm leaving this week."

209
00:10:19,487 --> 00:10:20,855
And he wrote a number down.

210
00:10:20,955 --> 00:10:22,690
He said, "Why don't you
call this guy up?" Malcolm.

211
00:10:24,291 --> 00:10:25,860
I then started working

212
00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,629
for Malcolm McLaren
and Vivienne Westwood.

213
00:10:28,729 --> 00:10:30,297
It was like a clubhouse.

214
00:10:30,397 --> 00:10:32,032
You know, we just rolled in.

215
00:10:32,133 --> 00:10:33,067
Vivienne and Malcolm
would look around

216
00:10:33,167 --> 00:10:35,102
and Glen was the Saturday boy.

217
00:10:35,202 --> 00:10:37,004
So we all got on
like a house on fire.

218
00:10:37,104 --> 00:10:38,472
We'd look after the customers.

219
00:10:38,573 --> 00:10:40,274
They all came in
just to talk to us.

220
00:10:40,374 --> 00:10:42,676
Every now and again
we'd sell something.

221
00:10:42,776 --> 00:10:44,645
I still don't remember
putting money in the till.

222
00:10:44,745 --> 00:10:47,549
I used to say to Vivienne, I
think more stuff got stolen

223
00:10:47,648 --> 00:10:49,416
than actually got paid for.

224
00:10:49,518 --> 00:10:50,818
But because it was
so expensive anyway,

225
00:10:50,918 --> 00:10:52,587
she always made money.

226
00:10:52,686 --> 00:10:54,054
Friday there'd be a delivery.

227
00:10:54,155 --> 00:10:55,689
Word would get out,

228
00:10:55,789 --> 00:10:57,258
on Saturday morning there
was a queue of Teddy Boys

229
00:10:57,358 --> 00:10:59,393
down the street waiting to
get their Brothel Creepers

230
00:10:59,493 --> 00:11:00,961
when they'd come in.

231
00:11:01,061 --> 00:11:04,131
And some of them would
order a drape jacket suit

232
00:11:04,231 --> 00:11:05,833
and I'd measure them up for it.

233
00:11:07,735 --> 00:11:09,937
Early '75, they were
getting a bit fed up

234
00:11:10,037 --> 00:11:12,873
with all these Teddy
Boys coming in.

235
00:11:12,973 --> 00:11:16,110
Malcolm and Vivienne
decided to change the shop

236
00:11:16,210 --> 00:11:19,113
and he come up with
this idea, SEX.

237
00:11:19,213 --> 00:11:22,483
As similar kind of effrontery
that Teddy Boy clothes had,

238
00:11:22,584 --> 00:11:24,685
except it would be new.

239
00:11:24,785 --> 00:11:26,420
So he wanted to
get rid of the Teddy Boys,

240
00:11:26,521 --> 00:11:30,559
move on, do this kind of more
bondage kind of looking gear.

241
00:11:30,659 --> 00:11:33,394
And I helped make
the big sign outside

242
00:11:33,494 --> 00:11:37,398
and they started to get a
younger crowd coming in.

243
00:11:37,498 --> 00:11:39,266
I never went there
when it was Let It Rock,

244
00:11:39,366 --> 00:11:40,734
but I went when it was SEX.

245
00:11:40,834 --> 00:11:43,337
In fact, Malcolm
even measured me up

246
00:11:43,437 --> 00:11:45,139
for a pair of peg pants.

247
00:11:45,239 --> 00:11:49,109
The whole idea of SEX was to
put off the ordinary person.

248
00:11:49,210 --> 00:11:52,279
It was like to frighten
you into not going into it.

249
00:11:52,379 --> 00:11:53,548
And they even had a
bit of an attitude,

250
00:11:53,648 --> 00:11:55,182
the people who worked there,

251
00:11:55,282 --> 00:11:57,084
We did get a lot of
sort of people who,

252
00:11:57,184 --> 00:11:59,320
obviously, mistook
the establishment

253
00:11:59,420 --> 00:12:00,921
for another kind of place.

254
00:12:01,021 --> 00:12:03,390
In fairness for them, it
did say sex outside, right?

255
00:12:03,490 --> 00:12:06,360
So you would get a few odd
balls and weirdos come in

256
00:12:06,460 --> 00:12:09,797
and there was one guy came
in head to toe in rubber

257
00:12:09,897 --> 00:12:12,601
and he'd just come and
ask the prices of things,

258
00:12:12,701 --> 00:12:14,569
never bought anything.

259
00:12:14,669 --> 00:12:16,638
He's obviously playing
with himself right?

260
00:12:16,737 --> 00:12:17,972
Then he'd say,
"How much is that?"

261
00:12:18,072 --> 00:12:20,140
And I'd say, "Oh,
how much is that?

262
00:12:20,241 --> 00:12:21,543
Well, that's, oh."

263
00:12:21,643 --> 00:12:23,210
Then he'd go, "Ten
pounds, ten pounds, whoa."

264
00:12:23,310 --> 00:12:24,512
And then he'd rush out

265
00:12:24,613 --> 00:12:25,680
and then you'd have
to get the mop out.

266
00:12:25,846 --> 00:12:27,414
We'd always sort
of like roll our eyes

267
00:12:27,515 --> 00:12:31,185
and say, "Oh well, clean
up in dressing room three."

268
00:12:31,285 --> 00:12:33,187
But it pissed
off the Teddy Boys,

269
00:12:33,287 --> 00:12:35,389
which was kind of the idea.

270
00:12:35,489 --> 00:12:37,958
When the Teddy Boys
suddenly realized that Malcolm

271
00:12:38,058 --> 00:12:41,128
had changed the shop of
being new-age sex clothes,

272
00:12:41,228 --> 00:12:42,763
they got really upset

273
00:12:42,863 --> 00:12:43,964
and they'd throw things
through the window.

274
00:12:44,064 --> 00:12:45,432
The windows were
smashed every Saturday.

275
00:12:45,533 --> 00:12:46,834
We wore Brothel Creepers.

276
00:12:46,934 --> 00:12:49,036
They didn't like that we
were taking their look

277
00:12:49,136 --> 00:12:51,372
and destroying it.

278
00:12:51,472 --> 00:12:53,974
I don't like them. They
probably don't like me.

279
00:12:54,074 --> 00:12:55,809
The Teddy Boys
would come along, oh,

280
00:12:55,909 --> 00:12:58,580
we'd have to lock the door,
but they'd smash the window.

281
00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:00,414
We were always
terrified of Saturday

282
00:13:00,515 --> 00:13:01,683
'cause of getting beaten up.

283
00:13:03,518 --> 00:13:04,619
But that's when things

284
00:13:04,719 --> 00:13:07,087
really started
beginning to change.

285
00:13:07,187 --> 00:13:09,223
It became the hippest
place in London

286
00:13:09,323 --> 00:13:10,858
on a Saturday afternoon.

287
00:13:10,958 --> 00:13:12,259
And that's where Steve and Paul

288
00:13:12,359 --> 00:13:14,729
started coming in with
a couple of their mates.

289
00:13:14,828 --> 00:13:16,997
Yeah, well Steve and
myself were really close.

290
00:13:17,097 --> 00:13:18,098
We grew up together.

291
00:13:18,198 --> 00:13:19,668
Like brothers, if you like.

292
00:13:19,768 --> 00:13:22,002
I met him when I
was about 10 years old

293
00:13:22,102 --> 00:13:25,306
and we were just
unseparable for many years.

294
00:13:25,406 --> 00:13:26,874
We went to the same schools.

295
00:13:26,974 --> 00:13:30,444
Hung out at the same places,
getting into trouble.

296
00:13:30,545 --> 00:13:32,479
And he stayed around
my house a lot

297
00:13:32,580 --> 00:13:35,750
because his home life wasn't
a happy place for him.

298
00:13:36,785 --> 00:13:38,118
At school, there
was a gang of us.

299
00:13:38,218 --> 00:13:41,255
There was me, Steve and
a couple of other guys

300
00:13:41,355 --> 00:13:42,923
and Wally Nightingale.

301
00:13:43,023 --> 00:13:44,659
And we used to skive off school

302
00:13:44,759 --> 00:13:46,260
and go round to Wally's house.

303
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:47,662
Sit in his bedroom

304
00:13:47,762 --> 00:13:51,131
and listen to songs
and play Faces.

305
00:13:51,231 --> 00:13:53,000
<i>♪ Baby used to stay out ♪</i>

306
00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:55,503
I was crazy about the
Faces and Rod Stewart.

307
00:13:55,603 --> 00:13:57,438
I was kind of a bit obsessed.

308
00:13:57,539 --> 00:14:00,140
We were definitely keen on
getting a band together.

309
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,744
It became everything,
for me anyway.

310
00:14:02,843 --> 00:14:05,580
<i>♪ Oh no love,</i>
<i>you're not alone</i> ♪

311
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:08,849
Glam Rock was really
massive in the UK.

312
00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:13,688
Bowie, Roxy Music, Queen,
T. Rex, Mott the Hoople

313
00:14:14,988 --> 00:14:18,325
and we would go down
Kings Road all doled up

314
00:14:18,425 --> 00:14:20,494
like we were in a
band; platform, boots,

315
00:14:20,595 --> 00:14:23,598
flares, all stuff
that I had to nick

316
00:14:23,698 --> 00:14:25,966
'cause no one could afford it.

317
00:14:26,066 --> 00:14:28,969
We used to go into the shop
a lot and hang out in there.

318
00:14:29,069 --> 00:14:30,270
We just felt comfortable.

319
00:14:30,371 --> 00:14:31,606
Vivienne was great.

320
00:14:31,706 --> 00:14:32,906
Her and Malcolm
were a great team.

321
00:14:33,006 --> 00:14:35,075
They were interested
in us as well.

322
00:14:35,175 --> 00:14:37,378
Malcolm was always asking,
where do you come from?

323
00:14:37,478 --> 00:14:38,580
What'd you get up to? And

324
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,881
Hey, I've been nicked.

325
00:14:40,981 --> 00:14:42,883
I've gotta go outside.
He's nicked me.

326
00:14:42,983 --> 00:14:44,753
I always had to watch
him when they came in

327
00:14:44,853 --> 00:14:46,887
'cause I thought they
were gonna nick something

328
00:14:46,987 --> 00:14:48,757
and Malcolm would humor
them a little bit.

329
00:14:48,857 --> 00:14:50,759
How's the band going?

330
00:14:50,859 --> 00:14:52,493
You know, like that,
looking at me like that.

331
00:14:52,594 --> 00:14:55,229
And Paul said,
"Well I don't know.

332
00:14:55,329 --> 00:14:56,664
We're trying to
take it seriously.

333
00:14:56,765 --> 00:15:00,000
But our bass player said
he never turned up."

334
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:02,670
I went, "Well I got a bass."

335
00:15:02,771 --> 00:15:04,739
And the next thing we were
sort of chatting away.

336
00:15:04,839 --> 00:15:06,741
Like, "What music do you like?

337
00:15:06,841 --> 00:15:08,375
Who's your favorite band?"

338
00:15:08,475 --> 00:15:09,811
I said, "The Faces."

339
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:11,478
He said, "That's our
favorite band at all."

340
00:15:11,579 --> 00:15:13,013
I thought he was a cool guy.

341
00:15:13,113 --> 00:15:15,315
You know I was impressed
that he worked at the shop.

342
00:15:17,117 --> 00:15:19,086
So a few days later I'm
going around Wally's house

343
00:15:19,186 --> 00:15:21,388
and the neighbor's
like, "What you got?"

344
00:15:21,488 --> 00:15:23,991
And I went, "Uh,
I've got this one,

345
00:15:24,091 --> 00:15:27,896
which is a Faces song actually
off their first album."

346
00:15:40,307 --> 00:15:42,911
So I played it and they're
like, "Whoa, you're in."

347
00:15:43,010 --> 00:15:44,913
Well, I was impressed. He
could actually play, you know.

348
00:15:45,012 --> 00:15:49,016
I basically just knew
power chords at that point

349
00:15:49,116 --> 00:15:51,218
and I always thought
I was better musician,

350
00:15:51,318 --> 00:15:53,086
which I let him think.

351
00:15:53,187 --> 00:15:54,388
But I was only about a week
ahead of Steve, you know.

352
00:15:54,488 --> 00:15:56,490
But don't tell him that.

353
00:15:57,859 --> 00:15:59,794
Initially, Steve
was gonna be the singer.

354
00:15:59,894 --> 00:16:01,295
I went onto the drums

355
00:16:01,395 --> 00:16:04,131
and Wally was playing
guitar at the time.

356
00:16:04,231 --> 00:16:05,834
Wally confided
in me and he said,

357
00:16:05,934 --> 00:16:08,636
"Steve, he'd go
and nick fur coats

358
00:16:08,736 --> 00:16:11,171
and ladies handbags
and things like that."

359
00:16:11,271 --> 00:16:12,841
He said, "It was my idea,

360
00:16:12,941 --> 00:16:15,677
if he'd nick guitars,
we could start a band."

361
00:16:15,777 --> 00:16:19,346
Wally's dad had the
keys to a BBC studio.

362
00:16:19,446 --> 00:16:21,716
We used to have the
run of this place

363
00:16:21,816 --> 00:16:24,886
and we had a big load
of equipment there

364
00:16:24,985 --> 00:16:27,956
procured from various
places, mainly by Steve.

365
00:16:28,055 --> 00:16:29,891
We started rehearsing
a bit more seriously

366
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:31,391
and people would come down

367
00:16:31,492 --> 00:16:34,294
and be a bit of a party
night on a Saturday night

368
00:16:34,394 --> 00:16:36,798
after the shop had shut.

369
00:16:36,898 --> 00:16:38,332
Somebody who was in
there a lot of the time

370
00:16:38,432 --> 00:16:40,502
and who was friends with
Malcolm and Vivienne

371
00:16:40,602 --> 00:16:42,336
was this guy, Bernard Rhodes.

372
00:16:43,905 --> 00:16:45,907
He'd done some screen
printing with Malcolm

373
00:16:46,006 --> 00:16:47,675
and they had sort of an
odd couple relationship.

374
00:16:47,775 --> 00:16:49,243
They was mates one minute

375
00:16:49,343 --> 00:16:51,345
and then they'd have a
ruck about something and.

376
00:16:51,445 --> 00:16:53,715
He was a prick.

377
00:16:53,815 --> 00:16:57,852
That said, I was a sort
of working class lad

378
00:16:57,952 --> 00:17:01,756
from the sticks, whereas
Bernie was much more art based.

379
00:17:01,856 --> 00:17:03,156
He would always talk to you

380
00:17:03,257 --> 00:17:05,359
and he'd make you
kind of qualify

381
00:17:05,459 --> 00:17:06,761
what you're thinking and why.

382
00:17:06,861 --> 00:17:08,262
"Who do you like?"

383
00:17:08,362 --> 00:17:09,363
'Well, I really like Faces,"

384
00:17:09,463 --> 00:17:10,632
"But why do you like them?"

385
00:17:10,732 --> 00:17:12,567
<i>♪ In the mornin' ♪</i>

386
00:17:12,667 --> 00:17:15,670
<i>♪ Don't say you love me ♪</i>

387
00:17:15,770 --> 00:17:16,971
"Well, I like them 'cause
they're all right."

388
00:17:17,070 --> 00:17:18,405
"No, that's not
good enough. Why?

389
00:17:18,506 --> 00:17:19,974
What are they doing?"

390
00:17:20,073 --> 00:17:22,744
That specific and it
really made you narrow down

391
00:17:22,844 --> 00:17:24,679
the way you go about things.

392
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,816
Steve had come in and
he thought a cool thing

393
00:17:28,917 --> 00:17:30,417
to say was, "Where's
the action?"

394
00:17:30,518 --> 00:17:31,953
It kind of annoyed Bernie,

395
00:17:32,052 --> 00:17:33,688
he'd say something like,

396
00:17:33,788 --> 00:17:35,790
"Would I be sitting here if
I knew where the action was?"

397
00:17:35,890 --> 00:17:37,324
And it transpired, the
action was actually

398
00:17:37,424 --> 00:17:39,994
where we were sitting because
that was the beginning.

399
00:17:54,274 --> 00:17:57,946
Rock was in a terrible
state in the '70s.

400
00:17:58,046 --> 00:18:02,584
It was grandiose and
25 minute guitar solos

401
00:18:02,684 --> 00:18:04,786
and 30 minute drum solos.

402
00:18:07,421 --> 00:18:09,857
It all became prog rock,
progressive rock.

403
00:18:09,958 --> 00:18:11,425
And I think mainly
they progressed

404
00:18:11,526 --> 00:18:12,927
by growing their
hair a bit longer

405
00:18:13,027 --> 00:18:15,763
and their trousers
got a bit more flared.

406
00:18:15,863 --> 00:18:18,198
People that would
potentially be in bands

407
00:18:18,298 --> 00:18:20,068
were really put off by the fact

408
00:18:20,167 --> 00:18:23,705
that you had to have this 20
years experience of playing

409
00:18:23,805 --> 00:18:26,608
and you had to be really
good as a technical guitarist

410
00:18:26,708 --> 00:18:28,676
before anybody'd
take you serious.

411
00:18:32,580 --> 00:18:35,215
This kind of became
a bit indulgent.

412
00:18:38,886 --> 00:18:41,823
There was this other music
scene called Pub Rock

413
00:18:41,923 --> 00:18:44,826
where bands were
play in local pubs.

414
00:18:44,926 --> 00:18:46,861
Pub Rock at the
time was a reaction,

415
00:18:46,961 --> 00:18:50,464
I think, against the
big stadium rock bands

416
00:18:50,565 --> 00:18:52,299
and kind of slightly
hippie music

417
00:18:52,399 --> 00:18:54,002
that was going on at the time.

418
00:18:54,102 --> 00:18:58,606
Every pub had a stage and
bands were playing all the time.

419
00:18:58,706 --> 00:19:00,942
You know you'd get
bands like Ducks Deluxe

420
00:19:01,042 --> 00:19:04,545
and Brinsley Schwarz
and Dr. Feelgood.

421
00:19:04,646 --> 00:19:06,748
We used to go and never
paid to get in anywhere,

422
00:19:06,848 --> 00:19:10,150
just went around the back
and bunked in, as we say.

423
00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:12,419
They really were the return
to the roots of rock and roll,

424
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,523
you know, the Feelgoods
covering a lot of RandB.

425
00:19:15,623 --> 00:19:18,191
And they all had kind
of strange names.

426
00:19:18,291 --> 00:19:20,528
Like the drummer was
called The Big Figure.

427
00:19:20,628 --> 00:19:22,797
You didn't know if they were
real life criminals or not.

428
00:19:22,897 --> 00:19:24,197
They were kind of dodgy.

429
00:19:24,297 --> 00:19:26,134
We all loved "The Feelgoods ".

430
00:19:26,233 --> 00:19:29,403
They were very
influential to all of us

431
00:19:29,504 --> 00:19:31,506
on the New York music scene.

432
00:19:31,606 --> 00:19:33,107
They had short hair and suits

433
00:19:33,206 --> 00:19:34,876
and they looked mean
and they were menacing.

434
00:19:34,976 --> 00:19:37,979
This jangly kind
of rockabilly sound.

435
00:19:38,079 --> 00:19:40,480
Kind of rough around the
edges, but not too heavy.

436
00:19:42,016 --> 00:19:45,119
<i>♪ The people cry for more</i> ♪

437
00:19:45,218 --> 00:19:46,721
The pub rock was sort of

438
00:19:46,821 --> 00:19:49,857
quite a vital part
of change really.

439
00:19:49,957 --> 00:19:52,527
And collectively,
we'd all kind of go out

440
00:19:52,627 --> 00:19:55,362
to check out some of these
things that were going on.

441
00:20:00,835 --> 00:20:03,270
By that time, the Alex Harvey
Band had, had a big hit

442
00:20:03,370 --> 00:20:08,042
with a cover of a Tom Jones
song called "Delilah".

443
00:20:08,142 --> 00:20:12,647
<i>♪ I saw the light on the night</i>
<i>that I passed by her window ♪</i>

444
00:20:14,582 --> 00:20:17,317
Going from playing little
pubs on the pub rock scene,

445
00:20:17,417 --> 00:20:19,352
they were playing
Hammersmith Odeon.

446
00:20:19,453 --> 00:20:22,957
So I went and took Malcolm
and while we're sitting there

447
00:20:23,057 --> 00:20:26,393
he said, "Um, how much
does it cost to get in?"

448
00:20:26,493 --> 00:20:29,130
Back then it was like 75 pence,
which is not even a pound.

449
00:20:29,229 --> 00:20:30,898
He went, "Oh."

450
00:20:30,998 --> 00:20:32,900
He said, "How many people
does this place hold?"

451
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,203
I said, "I don't know,
turn it off, 3,000."

452
00:20:35,302 --> 00:20:38,906
He went, "Let's have a meeting
about the band tomorrow."

453
00:20:39,006 --> 00:20:41,542
'Cause he could smell that
there was a money involved.

454
00:20:44,244 --> 00:20:47,215
When I started a playing with
Wally and Steve and Paul,

455
00:20:47,314 --> 00:20:49,083
they weren't the Sex Pistols

456
00:20:49,183 --> 00:20:51,119
and they'd thrown around
a couple of names.

457
00:20:51,219 --> 00:20:54,522
One was The Swankers

458
00:20:54,622 --> 00:20:57,158
and also they the toying
with the name The Strand,

459
00:20:57,257 --> 00:20:59,493
which was named after
a Roxy Music song.

460
00:20:59,594 --> 00:21:02,496
<i>♪ Do the strand, love</i> ♪

461
00:21:02,597 --> 00:21:04,364
Malcolm came up
with some ideas.

462
00:21:04,464 --> 00:21:08,401
Creme De la Creme, Kid Gladlove.

463
00:21:08,503 --> 00:21:11,072
Oof, don't know where
he got that one from.

464
00:21:11,172 --> 00:21:15,910
The Damned and QT Jones
and his Sex Pistols.

465
00:21:17,377 --> 00:21:19,213
But me and Wally didn't
wanna be in a band

466
00:21:19,312 --> 00:21:20,447
that was something
and something.

467
00:21:20,548 --> 00:21:23,851
So we sort of
conspired in the pub

468
00:21:23,951 --> 00:21:26,187
and said, "Let's just
drop the QT Jones thing,

469
00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:27,555
just be the Sex Pistols.

470
00:21:27,655 --> 00:21:29,023
Which made sense,

471
00:21:29,123 --> 00:21:31,659
'cause we were the pistols
from a shop called SEX.

472
00:21:33,293 --> 00:21:36,030
It was pretty straight
in the UK around that time

473
00:21:36,130 --> 00:21:39,734
and calling a band the Sex
Pistols was pretty outrageous.

474
00:21:39,834 --> 00:21:42,036
In fact, very
outrageous, actually.

475
00:21:43,704 --> 00:21:47,208
By that stage, Malcolm
had been going backwards

476
00:21:47,307 --> 00:21:49,544
and forwards to
America to try and buy

477
00:21:49,644 --> 00:21:52,180
'50s style clothes for his shop

478
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,615
and met the guys from
the New York Dolls.

479
00:21:58,553 --> 00:22:01,656
They played for me
this tape of theirs.

480
00:22:01,756 --> 00:22:03,891
I thought it was the worst
record I'd ever heard.

481
00:22:03,991 --> 00:22:05,827
But they were so funny,
it didn't matter.

482
00:22:05,927 --> 00:22:08,663
And I realized it didn't
matter that the music was bad.

483
00:22:08,763 --> 00:22:10,665
What mattered more was the fact

484
00:22:10,765 --> 00:22:12,432
that they were so
good at being bad

485
00:22:14,101 --> 00:22:17,939
and that gave me a whole
other attitude towards music

486
00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:22,375
and it locked in my own thoughts
about what was important.

487
00:22:22,475 --> 00:22:24,245
And that was the
presentation of it all

488
00:22:24,344 --> 00:22:26,714
and the attitude behind it.

489
00:22:27,849 --> 00:22:29,416
But because he'd
been on the scene

490
00:22:29,517 --> 00:22:31,085
that little bit in New York,

491
00:22:31,185 --> 00:22:32,653
he was hip to a
few other people;

492
00:22:32,753 --> 00:22:36,489
the fledgling Ramones
and Richard Hell

493
00:22:36,591 --> 00:22:38,659
and Television and
The Heartbreakers

494
00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:40,228
and it's all kind
of interconnected.

495
00:22:40,328 --> 00:22:42,563
But Malcolm would
come back to England

496
00:22:42,663 --> 00:22:44,665
and Malcolm, he said, "If
you want me to be involved,

497
00:22:44,765 --> 00:22:45,933
you gotta get rid of Wally."

498
00:22:46,033 --> 00:22:48,069
He just didn't look
right, I suppose.

499
00:22:48,169 --> 00:22:51,305
He had big glasses
and funky hair.

500
00:22:51,404 --> 00:22:52,607
It was quite ruthless, really.

501
00:22:52,707 --> 00:22:54,141
But that's the way it was

502
00:22:54,242 --> 00:22:56,944
and we had a bit of an
attitude problem with Wally.

503
00:22:57,044 --> 00:22:59,847
You know I liked Wally and
I would fight his corner.

504
00:22:59,947 --> 00:23:02,149
And then one day when we
were sitting in the pub,

505
00:23:02,250 --> 00:23:03,551
Paul turned around
to me, he said,

506
00:23:03,651 --> 00:23:05,019
"I don't know why
you're defending Wally,

507
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,054
he's always trying
to get rid of you."

508
00:23:07,154 --> 00:23:08,823
So I went, all right,
that's that then.

509
00:23:10,324 --> 00:23:13,493
So Wally's gone, Steve's
moving to the guitar

510
00:23:13,594 --> 00:23:15,263
and then he got
Malcolm and Bernard

511
00:23:15,363 --> 00:23:16,831
involved with us a bit more.

512
00:23:16,931 --> 00:23:18,032
That's the when we started

513
00:23:18,132 --> 00:23:20,134
to be on the lookout
for a singer.

514
00:23:20,234 --> 00:23:23,371
And on Bernard
Rhodes' suggestion

515
00:23:23,470 --> 00:23:25,773
lookout for this
guy called John.

516
00:23:25,873 --> 00:23:29,577
And this guy John came in the
shop and it was John Lydon.

517
00:23:29,677 --> 00:23:32,412
<i>They asked me 'cause they</i>
<i>thought I was a nutcase</i>

518
00:23:32,513 --> 00:23:35,683
<i>and they had no idea what</i>
<i>the hell they were doing.</i>

519
00:23:35,783 --> 00:23:38,986
<i>I went to a kind</i>
<i>of a mock rehearsal</i>

520
00:23:39,086 --> 00:23:41,722
<i>to see if I could sing or</i>
<i>not in front of a jukebox</i>

521
00:23:41,822 --> 00:23:45,593
<i>and I was completely</i>
<i>awful and they liked it</i>

522
00:23:46,459 --> 00:23:47,828
<i>and that was that.</i>

523
00:23:49,462 --> 00:23:51,799
Singing didn't
matter at the time.

524
00:23:51,899 --> 00:23:53,801
Could we play? We couldn't
really play at the time.

525
00:23:53,901 --> 00:23:55,303
Could John sing? Who cared?

526
00:23:55,403 --> 00:23:57,405
We wanted to be in a band.

527
00:23:57,505 --> 00:24:00,608
It was just the attitude and
just clicked straight away.

528
00:24:00,708 --> 00:24:04,011
The planets were aligned.
There was the Sex Pistols.

529
00:24:04,111 --> 00:24:05,445
But then a couple
of days later,

530
00:24:05,546 --> 00:24:06,781
Bernard Rhodes came
in and we said,

531
00:24:06,881 --> 00:24:08,215
"Oh, we found a singer, John."

532
00:24:08,316 --> 00:24:09,550
He said, "Oh great. You
got the guy I wanted."

533
00:24:09,650 --> 00:24:11,218
And a couple of days after that,

534
00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:13,020
he saw John and he said,
"Well, that's not John."

535
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:14,522
And we said, "Well,
that's John."

536
00:24:14,622 --> 00:24:15,990
And he said, "No,
the other John."

537
00:24:16,090 --> 00:24:17,825
And there was another
John and he'd seen.

538
00:24:17,925 --> 00:24:20,661
John Beverley,
aka Sid Vicious.

539
00:24:20,761 --> 00:24:22,863
They were all mates
and there four of them.

540
00:24:22,964 --> 00:24:26,300
There was John Lydon who
became Johnny Rotten.

541
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,602
There was his mate
called John Gray.

542
00:24:28,703 --> 00:24:30,470
There was another guy
called John Wardle

543
00:24:30,571 --> 00:24:34,608
who became Jah Wobble and John
Beverley became Sid Vicious.

544
00:24:34,709 --> 00:24:36,077
But Johnny Rotten was
the leader of the pack,

545
00:24:36,177 --> 00:24:37,178
so he was always John.

546
00:24:38,713 --> 00:24:40,815
But there was something
about him that was like,

547
00:24:40,915 --> 00:24:45,720
hmm, trouble with me,
Steve and Paul and John.

548
00:24:46,821 --> 00:24:48,488
But I think John
never saw it that way.

549
00:24:48,589 --> 00:24:50,691
He thought it was
three against one.

550
00:24:52,426 --> 00:24:54,095
But when he joined, we
started rehearsing regularly

551
00:24:54,195 --> 00:24:55,863
and trying to work out ideas.

552
00:24:55,963 --> 00:24:59,300
And back then we had four music
papers that came out weekly.

553
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:00,901
Well, I was flicking
through the ads

554
00:25:01,002 --> 00:25:03,304
and it was this lease for
sale of a rehearsal place

555
00:25:03,404 --> 00:25:04,839
in Denmark Street in London.

556
00:25:04,939 --> 00:25:06,674
I showed it to Malcolm.
He said, "Wow!"

557
00:25:06,774 --> 00:25:08,142
He said, "Call the guy up

558
00:25:08,242 --> 00:25:09,910
and offer him 1,000
pounds without seeing it."

559
00:25:10,011 --> 00:25:11,712
I said, "You're mad."
He said, "Call him."

560
00:25:11,812 --> 00:25:14,782
So me and Steve moved in and
we had our own rehearsal place.

561
00:25:15,983 --> 00:25:18,786
Hello. Uh, fancy seeing you

562
00:25:19,820 --> 00:25:22,089
Here we are in Denmark Street.

563
00:25:22,189 --> 00:25:23,657
This where we used to
rehearse downstairs.

564
00:25:23,758 --> 00:25:25,526
But come upstairs.

565
00:25:25,626 --> 00:25:29,563
The HQ, the center of
operations has changed a bit

566
00:25:29,663 --> 00:25:33,634
'cause it's gonna be part
of some swanky complex

567
00:25:33,734 --> 00:25:35,736
for the 21st century.

568
00:25:37,271 --> 00:25:39,306
But what they've done
is they've preserved

569
00:25:39,407 --> 00:25:43,310
all these drawings
on the walls that,

570
00:25:43,411 --> 00:25:44,879
I think, Johnny Rotten did.

571
00:25:44,979 --> 00:25:49,583
There's Malcolm, Malcolm
Muggerage. Fatty Jones.

572
00:25:50,751 --> 00:25:52,586
Supposed to be
Nancy there and Sid.

573
00:25:53,621 --> 00:25:54,889
There was a little bed there.

574
00:25:54,989 --> 00:25:56,525
Steve had a bed there
and I had a bed here.

575
00:25:56,624 --> 00:25:58,959
And we'd hang out and
we got writing songs.

576
00:25:59,060 --> 00:26:02,630
It was a bit of a dump
back then, but it was home.

577
00:26:04,131 --> 00:26:06,634
Well, the recorder
was upstairs

578
00:26:06,734 --> 00:26:07,968
but we played down,

579
00:26:08,069 --> 00:26:09,804
that's where we used
to rehearse downstairs.

580
00:26:09,904 --> 00:26:12,973
That's where every song
was written downstairs.

581
00:26:13,074 --> 00:26:16,377
Before that I was just
staying round Cookie's house

582
00:26:16,477 --> 00:26:20,047
or various couches, Malcolm's
and Vivienne's place.

583
00:26:20,147 --> 00:26:24,185
So when we got Denmark Street,
like this is my place now.

584
00:26:24,285 --> 00:26:28,155
But it was rats there and
the toilet was outside.

585
00:26:28,255 --> 00:26:30,357
I loved it, though.
It was quiet.

586
00:26:30,458 --> 00:26:32,193
And then you'd go
down to Denmark Street

587
00:26:32,293 --> 00:26:34,563
and it was like,
you are right there.

588
00:26:34,662 --> 00:26:36,030
You could go to the clubs

589
00:26:36,130 --> 00:26:40,167
and then end up just staggering
back to Denmark Street,

590
00:26:40,267 --> 00:26:42,636
get up the next
day and rehearse.

591
00:26:42,736 --> 00:26:44,573
I was working at the
time so I had to get up,

592
00:26:44,672 --> 00:26:46,841
go to work and then come back.

593
00:26:46,941 --> 00:26:49,610
How attentative about do I
really wanna be in a band?

594
00:26:49,710 --> 00:26:51,011
You know I was brought
up in this world

595
00:26:51,112 --> 00:26:53,814
where you left school
and you got a job

596
00:26:53,914 --> 00:26:55,816
and it was a very straight
world where I came from.

597
00:26:55,916 --> 00:26:58,520
And so it was a
dilemma for me. It was.

598
00:27:00,121 --> 00:27:04,024
That's when we then really
started applying ourselves.

599
00:27:04,125 --> 00:27:05,459
John always turned up

600
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,895
and he always had like a
little Castore carrier bag

601
00:27:07,995 --> 00:27:11,665
with scraps of paper in
it with ideas for lyrics.

602
00:27:11,765 --> 00:27:13,267
And Malcolm had
always been going on

603
00:27:13,367 --> 00:27:15,903
that we should write a manifesto

604
00:27:16,003 --> 00:27:19,306
and it goes back to his sort
of '60s hedging prop days.

605
00:27:19,406 --> 00:27:21,709
Now one day I'd
been having a go,

606
00:27:21,809 --> 00:27:24,513
Steve saying, "I've been
coming up with a few ideas,

607
00:27:24,613 --> 00:27:26,313
why don't you come
up with something?"

608
00:27:26,413 --> 00:27:28,249
And he sort of played
a couple of things

609
00:27:28,349 --> 00:27:30,050
and they weren't that good.

610
00:27:30,151 --> 00:27:31,652
And he went, "Oh, you're so
clever what you got then?"

611
00:27:31,752 --> 00:27:33,420
So I just played.

612
00:27:36,724 --> 00:27:38,527
And he went, "Yeah?"

613
00:27:38,627 --> 00:27:39,628
And I went.

614
00:27:42,496 --> 00:27:43,831
And he went, "Yeah?"

615
00:27:45,699 --> 00:27:50,271
"Yeah?"

616
00:27:50,371 --> 00:27:51,640
He went, "Oh, I like that."

617
00:27:51,739 --> 00:27:53,107
He said, "What comes next?"

618
00:28:01,282 --> 00:28:02,349
<i>♪ Now ♪</i>

619
00:28:03,784 --> 00:28:05,219
That's when John said,

620
00:28:05,319 --> 00:28:08,289
"Finally, you've got something
to with these lyrics."

621
00:28:08,389 --> 00:28:11,358
<i>♪ I'm an antichrist ♪</i>

622
00:28:11,458 --> 00:28:15,329
<i>♪ I am an anarchist ♪</i>

623
00:28:15,429 --> 00:28:16,730
<i>When I</i>
<i>got in the studio,</i>

624
00:28:16,830 --> 00:28:19,133
<i>I wrote the word to</i>
<i>that in 20 minutes</i>

625
00:28:19,233 --> 00:28:21,168
<i>straight off the top of my</i>
<i>head.</i>

626
00:28:21,268 --> 00:28:25,574
<i>♪ Passerby 'cause I</i>
<i>wanna be anarchy ♪</i>

627
00:28:33,814 --> 00:28:36,283
<i>♪ No dogs body</i> ♪

628
00:28:40,888 --> 00:28:44,191
This used to be Saint
Martin's School of Art.

629
00:28:44,291 --> 00:28:47,562
My foundation year, studio
was the one on the left

630
00:28:47,662 --> 00:28:49,997
and the gig we did
was right up the top.

631
00:28:50,097 --> 00:28:53,568
And that is where
the Sex Pistols
did their first show.

632
00:28:55,035 --> 00:28:56,937
We'd been rehearsing for a
couple of months by then,

633
00:28:57,037 --> 00:28:58,506
feeling we was getting
something together.

634
00:28:58,607 --> 00:29:01,442
Come on Malcolm, get
us some gigs. Nothing.

635
00:29:01,543 --> 00:29:03,444
No, no, no, you're not ready.

636
00:29:04,679 --> 00:29:06,213
Reading between the lines,

637
00:29:06,313 --> 00:29:09,651
I thought Malcolm has got
no idea how to get us a gig.

638
00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:14,455
I just approached the social
secretary at Saint Martin's

639
00:29:14,556 --> 00:29:16,725
and said can we play? And
they had this other band on

640
00:29:16,824 --> 00:29:18,627
and there was supposed
to be a support band

641
00:29:18,727 --> 00:29:21,262
who wasn't gonna do
it, so we got the gig.

642
00:29:21,362 --> 00:29:24,599
And that band was a
band called Bazooka Joe.

643
00:29:28,302 --> 00:29:29,604
We had been playing

644
00:29:29,704 --> 00:29:32,873
for several years in
pubs around London.

645
00:29:32,973 --> 00:29:36,711
We'd been hiring vans. We
bought our own equipment.

646
00:29:36,810 --> 00:29:40,180
We bought a PA system
on installments.

647
00:29:40,281 --> 00:29:42,249
We knew there was gonna
be a support band.

648
00:29:42,349 --> 00:29:44,218
We didn't know
quite who they were.

649
00:29:44,318 --> 00:29:48,922
Before then, I booked another
gig at Central School of Art

650
00:29:49,023 --> 00:29:52,393
and that's where I met a guy
called Alexander McDowell.

651
00:29:52,493 --> 00:29:54,596
I was social secretary

652
00:29:54,696 --> 00:29:58,432
and I was booking
rockabilly bands or whatever

653
00:29:58,533 --> 00:30:00,535
and this young man
walked in off the street

654
00:30:00,635 --> 00:30:01,869
and said, "Do you want a band

655
00:30:01,969 --> 00:30:02,970
to play for free
tomorrow night?"

656
00:30:03,070 --> 00:30:04,004
And I went, "Sure."

657
00:30:04,104 --> 00:30:05,472
And then he said,

658
00:30:05,573 --> 00:30:06,940
"Well, come to Saint
Martin's and see us play."

659
00:30:08,777 --> 00:30:10,578
We had to go
and get all our stuff

660
00:30:10,679 --> 00:30:12,413
in the rush hour in
the pissing rain.

661
00:30:12,514 --> 00:30:14,214
Wheeling it down
Charing Cross Road.

662
00:30:14,315 --> 00:30:15,684
And then the lift was broken,

663
00:30:15,784 --> 00:30:19,219
carry it all the way up
the stairs and set it up.

664
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,756
Bazooka Joe sort of had a
little bit of an attitude

665
00:30:21,855 --> 00:30:23,223
but they let us use their PA.

666
00:30:23,324 --> 00:30:24,626
There was no stage.

667
00:30:24,726 --> 00:30:27,629
We were just set
up on a flat thing.

668
00:30:27,729 --> 00:30:29,631
There wasn't a lot of people.

669
00:30:29,731 --> 00:30:32,333
We plugged in and
made an awful racket.

670
00:30:34,902 --> 00:30:37,871
I mean I only picked the
guitar up three months before.

671
00:30:37,971 --> 00:30:41,576
I was so nervous, I took a
Mandrax and a couple of pints,

672
00:30:41,676 --> 00:30:44,378
then it all kicked in
and then we started.

673
00:30:44,478 --> 00:30:48,015
<i>♪ I am a antichrist</i> ♪

674
00:30:48,115 --> 00:30:51,418
<i>♪ I am an anarchist</i> ♪

675
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:54,054
The lead singer was starting
to smash the equipment up

676
00:30:54,154 --> 00:30:57,057
and he started
kicking the speakers.

677
00:30:57,157 --> 00:30:58,793
They weren't even my speakers.
I was still paying for them.

678
00:30:58,892 --> 00:31:02,530
So enraged, I lept
into the fray.

679
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:04,965
And there was a bit
of a fight, scuffle on stage.

680
00:31:05,065 --> 00:31:08,302
It just all
descended into chaos.

681
00:31:08,402 --> 00:31:12,139
And they pulled the plug
on us after about 15 minutes.

682
00:31:12,239 --> 00:31:13,874
That is not true.

683
00:31:13,974 --> 00:31:16,343
We did not pull the
plugs on the Sex Pistols.

684
00:31:16,443 --> 00:31:19,079
No, they did. I was there.

685
00:31:19,179 --> 00:31:20,515
They took them off.

686
00:31:21,348 --> 00:31:22,817
They pulled the fucking plug.

687
00:31:23,984 --> 00:31:25,687
We only had a few songs

688
00:31:25,787 --> 00:31:28,590
and so they didn't cut
us short by that much.

689
00:31:30,023 --> 00:31:32,159
I remember thinking that
they weren't that good

690
00:31:32,259 --> 00:31:33,994
but you know, they
had the last laugh

691
00:31:34,094 --> 00:31:37,832
'cause they went on to become
legends and quite rightly so.

692
00:31:37,931 --> 00:31:40,702
It was something magical
that happened for me.

693
00:31:40,802 --> 00:31:43,971
Like this is we're finally
doing something. This is it.

694
00:31:44,071 --> 00:31:46,206
This is what I've been
wanting to do for many years,

695
00:31:46,306 --> 00:31:47,374
be in a band.

696
00:31:47,474 --> 00:31:50,879
And John was great. I loved it.

697
00:31:50,978 --> 00:31:53,113
Even though it was
for 15 minutes.

698
00:31:53,213 --> 00:31:54,682
Just seeing them at all

699
00:31:54,783 --> 00:31:57,351
was just such a radical
shift in thinking.

700
00:31:57,451 --> 00:31:59,888
The attitude that was
coming off the stage

701
00:31:59,987 --> 00:32:02,156
was something we'd never seen.

702
00:32:02,256 --> 00:32:03,957
And it was completely
captivating

703
00:32:04,057 --> 00:32:06,694
and almost immediately
we were cutting our hair

704
00:32:07,461 --> 00:32:09,531
and trying to copy John.

705
00:32:09,631 --> 00:32:11,599
And it was an immediate shift

706
00:32:11,699 --> 00:32:15,202
into a visible
expression of discontent.

707
00:32:15,302 --> 00:32:16,871
<i>All are</i>
<i>aware that Britain</i>

708
00:32:16,970 --> 00:32:20,107
<i>was in its worst economic</i>
<i>crisis for more than 40 years.</i>

709
00:32:21,676 --> 00:32:24,178
Politically,
it was very suppressive.

710
00:32:24,278 --> 00:32:26,113
Thatcher was
extremely right wing

711
00:32:27,882 --> 00:32:31,118
and you were dealing with
bombs going off with the IRA

712
00:32:31,218 --> 00:32:33,420
and real unrest.

713
00:32:33,521 --> 00:32:34,955
There are problems

714
00:32:35,055 --> 00:32:36,791
which have been pushed
underground for too long.

715
00:32:36,891 --> 00:32:39,460
Which, oh today, you know
they have to be brought up

716
00:32:39,561 --> 00:32:41,361
People ain't got time
to think about the cosmos

717
00:32:41,462 --> 00:32:44,431
and the universe when they
ain't got any money to live off.

718
00:32:44,532 --> 00:32:47,201
-Yeah.
-And got a hung Parliament.

719
00:32:47,301 --> 00:32:49,002
Everybody's on strike.

720
00:32:50,304 --> 00:32:51,739
In London particularly,

721
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,776
there's a real pervading
air of hopelessness.

722
00:32:54,876 --> 00:32:57,879
And now I just got this
sort of vacant kind of idea

723
00:32:57,978 --> 00:33:00,180
and then the "Pretty
Vacant" thing came to me.

724
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,625
<i>♪ We're so pretty,</i>
<i>oh, so pretty ♪</i>

725
00:33:10,725 --> 00:33:11,926
<i>♪ Vacant</i> ♪

726
00:33:12,025 --> 00:33:14,061
But it needed something.
It needed a riff.

727
00:33:15,930 --> 00:33:19,567
And this is the Cambridge Pub
where we used to hang out.

728
00:33:19,667 --> 00:33:21,235
And I'm sitting there
having a pint one lunchtime

729
00:33:21,335 --> 00:33:25,840
and a record came on the jukebox
and it was "SOS" by ABBA.

730
00:33:25,940 --> 00:33:28,610
That riff isn't in the song

731
00:33:28,710 --> 00:33:30,277
but it was something that
the bass player does.

732
00:33:30,377 --> 00:33:31,880
He plays his octave thing.

733
00:33:31,980 --> 00:33:33,615
<i>♪ When you're gone ♪</i>

734
00:33:33,715 --> 00:33:37,451
<i>♪ How can I even try to go on ♪</i>

735
00:33:37,552 --> 00:33:38,920
And it gave me the
idea for the riff.

736
00:33:39,019 --> 00:33:41,923
And I just finished off my
pint, went back and went.

737
00:33:45,727 --> 00:33:48,530
Ooh.
Oh,.

738
00:33:50,497 --> 00:33:52,032
I gave John
the set of lyrics

739
00:33:52,132 --> 00:33:54,234
which he seemed
to like and sing.

740
00:33:54,334 --> 00:33:55,637
He said, "This is fantastic."

741
00:33:55,737 --> 00:33:57,005
He said, "If we get
this on the radio,

742
00:33:57,104 --> 00:33:58,873
you give me a way to
say cunt on the radio."

743
00:33:58,973 --> 00:34:00,407
And I'd never even
thought of that.

744
00:34:00,508 --> 00:34:03,076
I was just thinking
of vacant with an A.

745
00:34:03,176 --> 00:34:07,882
<i>♪ We're so pretty,</i>
<i>oh, so pretty ♪</i>

746
00:34:07,982 --> 00:34:09,617
<i>♪ Vacant ♪</i>

747
00:34:09,717 --> 00:34:12,286
It summed up the
angst and the chaos

748
00:34:12,386 --> 00:34:15,790
that he felt in his community.

749
00:34:15,890 --> 00:34:17,959
I mean that's part
of our job as artists

750
00:34:18,058 --> 00:34:22,229
is to report on the news of
what's going on all around me.

751
00:34:24,632 --> 00:34:28,903
It reconfirms for us
that we're not alone.

752
00:34:29,003 --> 00:34:30,370
I saw a number of
those early shows

753
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:32,874
and going from doing covers

754
00:34:32,974 --> 00:34:34,876
to like starting to
do their own songs

755
00:34:34,976 --> 00:34:36,343
and they were these
classic anthems.

756
00:34:36,443 --> 00:34:38,312
I mean the first song I heard,

757
00:34:38,412 --> 00:34:41,716
I really realized was their
own song was "Pretty Vacant".

758
00:34:46,554 --> 00:34:47,922
When you stood up

759
00:34:48,022 --> 00:34:50,925
and started singing the
first time, what happened?

760
00:34:51,025 --> 00:34:51,993
I mean.
-Come on, John.

761
00:34:52,092 --> 00:34:53,995
Go on.
-It was wonderful.

762
00:34:54,094 --> 00:34:56,163
-No come on.
-People loved me.

763
00:34:56,263 --> 00:34:57,565
They threw flowers.

764
00:34:57,665 --> 00:34:58,700
And
what sort of people

765
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,836
came to see you
in the beginning?

766
00:35:01,936 --> 00:35:04,438
Well, no one
knew it the beginning.

767
00:35:04,539 --> 00:35:06,608
We were just a regular band.
Turned up.

768
00:35:06,708 --> 00:35:08,009
'Cause we used to turn
up with our equipment

769
00:35:08,108 --> 00:35:10,143
and just like crashing
and doing the gigs.

770
00:35:10,243 --> 00:35:12,212
Nobody knew we was playing
until we got there.

771
00:35:12,312 --> 00:35:13,848
We didn't even know, actually.

772
00:35:13,948 --> 00:35:16,283
Yeah, there used to be in this
magazine called "Time Out"

773
00:35:16,383 --> 00:35:18,953
and I'm pretty sure Malcolm
would just go through it,

774
00:35:19,053 --> 00:35:20,989
see what's coming
up and see a gig

775
00:35:21,089 --> 00:35:22,189
and say, "Oh, you're
playing there?"

776
00:35:22,289 --> 00:35:23,925
He never spoke to them.

777
00:35:24,025 --> 00:35:26,360
We just used to turn up and
say we're the support band.

778
00:35:26,460 --> 00:35:27,562
People would go,
"Oh. Oh, really?"

779
00:35:27,662 --> 00:35:28,730
"Yeah." We'd go, "Yeah, yeah."

780
00:35:28,830 --> 00:35:29,964
"Well, come on."

781
00:35:30,064 --> 00:35:31,566
But we needed
other places to play.

782
00:35:31,666 --> 00:35:34,234
And Malcolm come up with
his place El Paradise.

783
00:35:34,334 --> 00:35:37,705
It was a proper old-school,
seedy strip club.

784
00:35:37,805 --> 00:35:41,441
Malcolm had hired this strip
club from the Maltese mafia

785
00:35:41,542 --> 00:35:43,410
and, honestly, it
was an absolute dump.

786
00:35:43,511 --> 00:35:44,879
And we actually
went and bought

787
00:35:44,979 --> 00:35:47,180
a bucket and a mop and some
disinfectant.

788
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:48,750
There was like a few punters

789
00:35:48,850 --> 00:35:50,183
who'd just come
in off the street

790
00:35:50,283 --> 00:35:52,252
thinking actually there
was a strip show going on

791
00:35:52,352 --> 00:35:53,821
and Malcolm was just
taking all the money

792
00:35:53,921 --> 00:35:56,024
and we literally had
to run from the place

793
00:35:56,124 --> 00:35:58,291
'cause the Maltese mafia
suddenly turned up.

794
00:35:59,794 --> 00:36:01,495
But those first early
gigs were amazing.

795
00:36:01,596 --> 00:36:03,765
They were so exciting to be at.

796
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,602
They were learning to
play their instruments.

797
00:36:07,702 --> 00:36:09,070
You could tell.

798
00:36:09,169 --> 00:36:10,605
But that's what
was exciting to us,

799
00:36:10,705 --> 00:36:12,707
'cause like, oh man,
these guys don't care.

800
00:36:12,807 --> 00:36:15,143
That's the idea. Get up
there and learn to play.

801
00:36:18,813 --> 00:36:20,447
Rotten had this
great sense of humor.

802
00:36:20,548 --> 00:36:23,651
They'd finish a song and
he'd be, "Uh! Now clap."

803
00:36:23,751 --> 00:36:26,087
Before the audience had,
had a chance to respond

804
00:36:26,186 --> 00:36:30,457
he'd be straight on their
case and very entertaining.

805
00:36:31,759 --> 00:36:33,061
And started building
up a following.

806
00:36:33,161 --> 00:36:34,696
It was mainly people

807
00:36:34,796 --> 00:36:36,898
who would come in the shop
on Saturday afternoon,

808
00:36:36,998 --> 00:36:39,067
Steve Severin and Siouxsie,

809
00:36:39,167 --> 00:36:41,234
became Siouxsie Sioux
from the Banshees.

810
00:36:41,334 --> 00:36:43,604
Sid, Billy Idol.

811
00:36:43,705 --> 00:36:44,739
The Scene was very small.

812
00:36:44,839 --> 00:36:46,373
We were friends who
used to hang out

813
00:36:46,473 --> 00:36:48,076
and go and see all the music.

814
00:36:48,176 --> 00:36:51,411
Caroline Coon of "Sounds" called
us the Bromley Contingent,

815
00:36:51,512 --> 00:36:53,147
'cause we're all from Bromley.

816
00:36:53,246 --> 00:36:54,982
It's just the same
as when it was before

817
00:36:55,083 --> 00:36:57,919
when they had the Stones and
the Who and they came along

818
00:36:58,019 --> 00:36:59,352
and they thought they were great

819
00:36:59,453 --> 00:37:00,688
because they destroyed
everything that

820
00:37:00,788 --> 00:37:01,756
went before them.

821
00:37:01,856 --> 00:37:03,390
But now they can't take it

822
00:37:03,490 --> 00:37:04,959
because we're destroying
everything that's

823
00:37:05,059 --> 00:37:05,993
gone before us.

824
00:37:09,864 --> 00:37:11,766
I loved the Nashville
gigs especially,

825
00:37:11,866 --> 00:37:14,168
'cause you never knew what
was actually gonna happen.

826
00:37:14,267 --> 00:37:16,436
Vivienne would sort of
like scream and shout

827
00:37:16,537 --> 00:37:18,573
and be rude to a person
who was next to her.

828
00:37:18,673 --> 00:37:20,708
Massive fist fights.
Chairs would be flying.

829
00:37:20,808 --> 00:37:22,143
It was a great night.

830
00:37:22,242 --> 00:37:24,212
A fight broke
out in the audience

831
00:37:24,311 --> 00:37:27,982
and this guy took a photograph
of us fighting with this guy.

832
00:37:28,082 --> 00:37:29,584
But we was actually
trying to stop him.

833
00:37:29,684 --> 00:37:32,620
But it became the cover
of the "Melody Maker".

834
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:34,555
Looking back, it
was all part of the plan

835
00:37:34,655 --> 00:37:36,824
to get them sort of noticed.

836
00:37:36,924 --> 00:37:39,227
Doctors of Madness
were one of those bands

837
00:37:39,326 --> 00:37:41,729
that were around the pub
rock scene at the time

838
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:45,199
and everyone thought they were
gonna be the next big thing.

839
00:37:45,298 --> 00:37:46,901
<i>♪ Nights now ♪</i>

840
00:37:47,001 --> 00:37:49,704
And Steve Strange on
guitar with the weird makeup,

841
00:37:49,804 --> 00:37:51,539
very glam rock.

842
00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:53,741
It's early '76,
we're doing great.

843
00:37:53,841 --> 00:37:56,577
We're playing to 800 people
a night wherever we go.

844
00:37:56,677 --> 00:37:59,981
And I got a call from our
agent, I need a favor from you.

845
00:38:00,081 --> 00:38:02,016
I've got this guy driving
me crazy in London.

846
00:38:02,116 --> 00:38:04,284
He's got this band, I
can't think of anyone

847
00:38:04,384 --> 00:38:06,486
who'd have him on the
bill apart from you.

848
00:38:06,587 --> 00:38:08,890
The day of the gig came.

849
00:38:08,990 --> 00:38:11,692
We showed up there, we had
got out for a sound check

850
00:38:11,793 --> 00:38:13,528
and they wouldn't let
us use any monitors.

851
00:38:13,628 --> 00:38:17,765
And they were a bit
like, oh, brushed us off.

852
00:38:17,865 --> 00:38:20,601
The doors open and
the audience comes in.

853
00:38:20,701 --> 00:38:23,538
I said, "This is weird
because the 800 kids

854
00:38:23,638 --> 00:38:24,806
who've come to see
us at the minute,

855
00:38:24,906 --> 00:38:26,808
they normally go
straight to the bar."

856
00:38:26,908 --> 00:38:28,109
And I'm watching them

857
00:38:28,209 --> 00:38:29,143
and like half of them
coming straight in

858
00:38:29,243 --> 00:38:30,778
to see the support band.

859
00:38:30,878 --> 00:38:33,848
And quite a few of the
audience are wearing badges

860
00:38:33,948 --> 00:38:36,017
or they've got ripped
clothes or something.

861
00:38:36,117 --> 00:38:39,587
The lights go down, ladies,
gentlemen, the Sex Pistols.

862
00:38:39,687 --> 00:38:42,523
<i>♪ To attend 'cause</i>
<i>we're not all there ♪</i>

863
00:38:42,623 --> 00:38:45,492
<i>♪ Don't pretend,</i>
<i>yeah, we don't care ♪</i>

864
00:38:45,593 --> 00:38:48,395
And I knew someone had just
moved the fucking goal posts.

865
00:38:48,495 --> 00:38:49,831
That generational change,

866
00:38:49,931 --> 00:38:51,766
that baton, had just
been handed over.

867
00:38:54,635 --> 00:38:56,436
And then the Doctors
of Madness went on.

868
00:38:56,537 --> 00:38:58,573
But while we was on stage,
Steve went in the dressing room

869
00:38:58,673 --> 00:39:00,641
and spat in their stack up.

870
00:39:00,741 --> 00:39:03,110
Boosted and rifled
their pockets.

871
00:39:03,211 --> 00:39:05,279
By the time you get
into the dressing room,

872
00:39:05,378 --> 00:39:07,480
the Pistols have gone

873
00:39:07,582 --> 00:39:10,151
and so has 12 quid
from my back pocket

874
00:39:10,251 --> 00:39:14,989
and other stuff has been
just been nicked, just gone.

875
00:39:16,090 --> 00:39:18,326
So it was a really bad day.

876
00:39:18,425 --> 00:39:22,495
Me career had gone
and 12 quid.

877
00:39:22,597 --> 00:39:24,397
I'm sure they were
most upset with us

878
00:39:24,497 --> 00:39:27,434
'cause they thought they were
gonna be the next big thing

879
00:39:27,535 --> 00:39:29,904
and it just kind of fizzled out.

880
00:39:30,004 --> 00:39:31,772
But I paid him back.

881
00:39:31,873 --> 00:39:33,107
<i>Things</i>
<i>really started to move</i>

882
00:39:33,207 --> 00:39:35,142
<i>for the Sex Pistols</i>
<i>when they were spotted</i>

883
00:39:35,243 --> 00:39:36,944
<i>by promoter Ron Watts,</i>

884
00:39:37,044 --> 00:39:40,281
<i>who gave them a booking at</i>
<i>the 100 Club in Oxford Street.</i>

885
00:39:40,380 --> 00:39:41,716
I saw them at High Wycombe.

886
00:39:43,284 --> 00:39:44,986
It was interesting because
they really managed

887
00:39:45,086 --> 00:39:47,321
to upset the crowd
or most of the crowd.

888
00:39:47,420 --> 00:39:49,422
It was the only thing that
didn't come from the industry,

889
00:39:49,523 --> 00:39:50,925
it came from the
kids themselves.

890
00:39:51,025 --> 00:39:52,526
Something had to
come from the kids.

891
00:39:54,494 --> 00:39:56,429
First gig, there was
hardly anybody there.

892
00:39:56,530 --> 00:39:58,199
John was a bit out of it.

893
00:39:58,299 --> 00:40:01,702
And he was singing all the
words to the songs perfectly,

894
00:40:01,802 --> 00:40:03,905
but not the song we was
playing at the time.

895
00:40:04,005 --> 00:40:05,506
He said to me, "Do
you wanna fight?"

896
00:40:05,606 --> 00:40:06,941
And I said, "Yeah,
I'll fight you,

897
00:40:07,041 --> 00:40:08,676
but maybe not that
while we're on stage."

898
00:40:08,776 --> 00:40:12,246
And he got off the stage
and Malcolm followed him

899
00:40:13,948 --> 00:40:15,283
and he comes skulking
back on the stage

900
00:40:15,383 --> 00:40:16,617
and he looked daggers at me.

901
00:40:18,485 --> 00:40:20,688
I spoke to Malcolm afterwards
and I said, "What happened?"

902
00:40:20,788 --> 00:40:22,390
And he said, "Well,
do you know what?

903
00:40:22,523 --> 00:40:23,691
He was outside at the bus stop

904
00:40:23,791 --> 00:40:25,359
waiting for the number 73 bus

905
00:40:25,458 --> 00:40:26,928
to go back home
to Finsbury Park."

906
00:40:27,028 --> 00:40:28,329
And I said, "What'd
you say to him?"

907
00:40:28,428 --> 00:40:29,263
I said, "If you don't
get back on that stage,

908
00:40:29,363 --> 00:40:30,731
mate, you're out of the band."

909
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:36,137
Tuesday night usually was
a jazz night at the 100 Club.

910
00:40:36,237 --> 00:40:38,906
So people kind of came in and
their sort of mouths'd be,

911
00:40:40,775 --> 00:40:42,076
they couldn't believe
what they were seeing

912
00:40:42,176 --> 00:40:44,111
'cause it was no one had
seen anything like this.

913
00:40:44,211 --> 00:40:45,713
And they was so anarchic,

914
00:40:45,813 --> 00:40:47,715
'cause they weren't really
talking to the audience.

915
00:40:47,815 --> 00:40:49,684
Johnny would be talking
to Malcolm off stage.

916
00:40:49,784 --> 00:40:52,887
He'd go, "Malcolm, why
don't you get me a beer?"

917
00:40:52,987 --> 00:40:54,355
Then he'd see someone in the,

918
00:40:54,454 --> 00:40:57,725
there'd be like someone
coming off Oxford Street,

919
00:40:57,825 --> 00:40:59,727
all in denim, with
flares, long hair.

920
00:40:59,827 --> 00:41:02,063
He'd go, "Oh, look at
you with your flares

921
00:41:02,163 --> 00:41:03,431
and your long hair.

922
00:41:03,531 --> 00:41:04,432
Why don't you go back to
your Melanie records?"

923
00:41:04,532 --> 00:41:05,433
One, two, three, four.

924
00:41:07,368 --> 00:41:10,071
Sit down! Yeah!

925
00:41:10,171 --> 00:41:12,840
Fucking old hippies
all over again.

926
00:41:15,042 --> 00:41:18,379
Rotten's attitude
was off the charts.

927
00:41:18,478 --> 00:41:20,982
But then Glen's kind of
adding a musicality to it

928
00:41:21,082 --> 00:41:23,985
which it just felt, this is
part of what makes groups great

929
00:41:24,085 --> 00:41:26,153
is the individual
characteristics

930
00:41:26,253 --> 00:41:27,922
of the people in the band.

931
00:41:28,022 --> 00:41:30,758
And then watching them
week by week progress

932
00:41:30,858 --> 00:41:31,826
was really exciting.

933
00:41:33,227 --> 00:41:34,762
People say they can't play

934
00:41:34,862 --> 00:41:38,065
and the Pistol songs are
largely three chord songs,

935
00:41:38,165 --> 00:41:42,136
but boy they can really play
and it absolutely rocks.

936
00:41:42,236 --> 00:41:44,505
The hardest thing to have

937
00:41:44,605 --> 00:41:46,374
is to have a sound
that's your own.

938
00:41:46,474 --> 00:41:48,776
The Sex Pistols
certainly had that.

939
00:41:48,876 --> 00:41:52,613
I can tell in eight bars if
it's Steve or Glen or Paul.

940
00:41:52,713 --> 00:41:54,015
When John sings, of
course you know it's him.

941
00:41:54,115 --> 00:41:56,183
He's got a very unique sound.

942
00:41:56,283 --> 00:41:59,353
We sound like that because
we'd actually learned to play

943
00:41:59,453 --> 00:42:01,022
together at the same time.

944
00:42:01,122 --> 00:42:03,457
I don't know where our
sound came from, to be honest.

945
00:42:03,557 --> 00:42:06,627
It was an amalgamation of
lots of different things.

946
00:42:06,727 --> 00:42:09,463
It's just a natural
primal scream, I guess.

947
00:42:09,563 --> 00:42:11,732
They never really
played too fast.

948
00:42:11,832 --> 00:42:13,467
They weren't trying to emulate
the Ramones in that way.

949
00:42:13,567 --> 00:42:14,735
There was more of a groove.

950
00:42:14,835 --> 00:42:16,505
Da da da and da and da.

951
00:42:16,604 --> 00:42:18,139
There was none of that.

952
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,609
And we loved beats that went
bush, bash, buh-buh, bash.

953
00:42:21,709 --> 00:42:25,679
I liked hard, fast,
simple chords.

954
00:42:29,083 --> 00:42:32,853
Steve used to break into
Ronnie Wood's house in Richmond

955
00:42:32,953 --> 00:42:34,221
and have a would
go in his guitar

956
00:42:34,321 --> 00:42:36,490
and leave a little note
saying Steve was here.

957
00:42:36,590 --> 00:42:37,858
And Steve, I think,

958
00:42:37,958 --> 00:42:39,894
was kind of going for
that kind of sound.

959
00:42:39,994 --> 00:42:41,462
But one of the best things

960
00:42:41,562 --> 00:42:43,597
I've ever read in this
article somewhere it said,

961
00:42:43,697 --> 00:42:46,434
Steve's guitar sound
is the sound of him

962
00:42:46,535 --> 00:42:47,902
paying his stepfather back.

963
00:42:49,570 --> 00:42:51,672
Which is kind of quite
heavy, but probably true.

964
00:42:51,772 --> 00:42:53,441
<i>♪ This is brainwash</i>
<i>and this is a ♪</i>

965
00:42:53,542 --> 00:42:57,011
What we was was
just us together.

966
00:42:57,111 --> 00:42:58,045
That's the way it turned out.

967
00:42:58,145 --> 00:43:00,247
No one was telling us

968
00:43:00,347 --> 00:43:02,383
we have to play a
certain way or anything.

969
00:43:02,483 --> 00:43:04,718
Malcolm didn't even do that.

970
00:43:04,819 --> 00:43:07,354
Well it's really, the
songwriting is fantastic.

971
00:43:07,455 --> 00:43:08,756
And that's down to the band.

972
00:43:08,856 --> 00:43:10,791
I mean when I first
heard "Anarchy",

973
00:43:10,891 --> 00:43:13,562
I mean it, you just knew
it's Glen's bassline

974
00:43:13,661 --> 00:43:15,729
and you knew it
starts the song off.

975
00:43:15,830 --> 00:43:19,467
It made you wanna write
songs too, that's so good.

976
00:43:19,568 --> 00:43:26,575
<i>♪ Kiss me deadly tonight ♪</i>

977
00:43:28,275 --> 00:43:30,545
Early summer of
'76, the word was out.

978
00:43:30,644 --> 00:43:32,514
People wanted
something different.

979
00:43:32,613 --> 00:43:34,516
And once we came along,

980
00:43:34,615 --> 00:43:38,219
it kind of opened the
doors of possibility.

981
00:43:38,319 --> 00:43:41,755
You don't have to be
a fantastic musician.

982
00:43:41,856 --> 00:43:43,390
You don't have to be old.

983
00:43:43,491 --> 00:43:44,792
You don't have to been in
the music business years.

984
00:43:44,892 --> 00:43:47,228
You can just get a guitar,
play for a few weeks

985
00:43:47,328 --> 00:43:48,563
and go on the stage and do it.

986
00:43:48,662 --> 00:43:49,797
One,
two, three, four.

987
00:43:55,970 --> 00:43:59,541
Well, there's no question
that the Pistols came first.

988
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:01,510
They were the trigger
for all of it.

989
00:44:01,610 --> 00:44:03,444
I mean, it was
happening really fast.

990
00:44:03,545 --> 00:44:04,845
There was this
small group of us

991
00:44:04,945 --> 00:44:08,849
that were looking different
and voicing our opinion.

992
00:44:09,984 --> 00:44:11,520
You know nobody that wanted

993
00:44:11,620 --> 00:44:14,221
a successful career in the
music business would turn around

994
00:44:14,321 --> 00:44:17,592
and criticized the music
industry, the government,

995
00:44:17,691 --> 00:44:18,959
the police, the queen.

996
00:44:19,059 --> 00:44:21,563
That wasn't how
you got successful.

997
00:44:21,662 --> 00:44:23,797
And so we had nothing to lose.

998
00:44:23,898 --> 00:44:25,567
You know what are they gonna do?

999
00:44:25,666 --> 00:44:27,234
Except put us back on the dole

1000
00:44:27,334 --> 00:44:29,003
and take the clothes
off our back.

1001
00:44:29,103 --> 00:44:30,437
It was a great leveler,

1002
00:44:30,539 --> 00:44:32,840
'cause it wasn't about
musical virtuosity.

1003
00:44:32,940 --> 00:44:34,808
It was about keeping it real

1004
00:44:34,909 --> 00:44:37,878
and still being creative
with maybe limited skills.

1005
00:44:37,978 --> 00:44:40,714
I remember rehearsing
at Denmark Street once

1006
00:44:40,814 --> 00:44:43,951
and the door opened and
Bernard Rhodes come in

1007
00:44:44,051 --> 00:44:45,686
with this bunch of guys.

1008
00:44:45,786 --> 00:44:46,787
When he met me.

1009
00:44:46,887 --> 00:44:48,222
Then he met you.
We met him.

1010
00:44:49,790 --> 00:44:51,792
Hand in hand with the
Sex Pistols was The Clash.

1011
00:44:51,892 --> 00:44:53,928
It was Malcolm McLaren
and Bernie Rhodes

1012
00:44:54,028 --> 00:44:57,264
in constant competition to see
who could up the other one.

1013
00:44:57,364 --> 00:44:59,800
Him and Malcolm had this idea

1014
00:44:59,900 --> 00:45:01,969
that if you had one
band, it was an oddity.

1015
00:45:02,069 --> 00:45:04,673
If you had two bands
that was kind of curious.

1016
00:45:04,772 --> 00:45:06,974
But if you had three
bands, it was a movement.

1017
00:45:11,078 --> 00:45:12,246
<i>♪ Oh, yeah ♪</i>

1018
00:45:12,346 --> 00:45:14,048
The Clash were more political.

1019
00:45:14,148 --> 00:45:17,885
That was kind of their thing.
I loved The Clash, by the way.

1020
00:45:17,985 --> 00:45:20,054
We saw the flyer it
was A Midnight Special

1021
00:45:20,154 --> 00:45:20,921
that was happening.

1022
00:45:21,021 --> 00:45:22,289
Got the Sex Pistols playing,

1023
00:45:22,389 --> 00:45:23,891
supported by a band that
hadn't played before

1024
00:45:23,991 --> 00:45:25,726
called The Clash.

1025
00:45:25,826 --> 00:45:28,896
And a new band from Manchester
called the Buzzcocks.

1026
00:45:28,996 --> 00:45:31,666
The Pistols was something
completely different.

1027
00:45:31,765 --> 00:45:33,467
There was real anarchy
when they came on.

1028
00:45:33,568 --> 00:45:36,937
I mean, Johnny smashed
his mouth on the mic

1029
00:45:37,037 --> 00:45:38,305
and had to run into the toilet

1030
00:45:38,405 --> 00:45:39,708
'cause he knocked his tooth out.

1031
00:45:39,807 --> 00:45:41,509
It changed my life, that show.

1032
00:45:42,776 --> 00:45:44,178
We went back to school

1033
00:45:44,278 --> 00:45:46,981
and we started to form
what became Spandau Ballet.

1034
00:45:47,081 --> 00:45:48,048
What
about the word punk?

1035
00:45:48,148 --> 00:45:50,117
It means worthless, nasty.

1036
00:45:50,217 --> 00:45:52,886
Johnny Rotten, are you
happy with this word?

1037
00:45:52,987 --> 00:45:54,723
No. The press gave us it.

1038
00:45:54,822 --> 00:45:57,057
It's their problem, not ours.

1039
00:45:57,157 --> 00:45:59,093
We never called ourselves punk.

1040
00:45:59,193 --> 00:46:00,729
Hang on a second,

1041
00:46:00,828 --> 00:46:04,699
this word punk it didn't exist
as a word when we formed.

1042
00:46:05,799 --> 00:46:07,801
They did big articles on us

1043
00:46:07,901 --> 00:46:09,537
and they come up
with this word punk.

1044
00:46:09,638 --> 00:46:11,606
And if you look
up what it means,

1045
00:46:11,706 --> 00:46:13,742
it's not particularly savory

1046
00:46:13,841 --> 00:46:15,744
and who wants to
be called a punk?

1047
00:46:21,315 --> 00:46:26,053
Punk has always been a
term of maximum derision.

1048
00:46:27,888 --> 00:46:30,491
And I'd read stories of this
new music movement emerging,

1049
00:46:30,592 --> 00:46:32,393
punk rock, and
they'd all say, yeah,

1050
00:46:32,493 --> 00:46:35,963
we listened to the MC5 and
I'd rip the magazines up

1051
00:46:36,063 --> 00:46:37,464
and flush them down the toilet

1052
00:46:37,565 --> 00:46:39,166
'cause I didn't want
anyone to associate me

1053
00:46:39,266 --> 00:46:41,536
with this punk music
movement.

1054
00:46:43,470 --> 00:46:45,906
When punk came out, I
didn't really like it.

1055
00:46:47,274 --> 00:46:48,976
But I loved the
excitement it generated

1056
00:46:49,076 --> 00:46:51,345
and the enthusiasm
that's behind it.

1057
00:46:51,445 --> 00:46:54,616
But the music I
felt was not for me.

1058
00:46:54,716 --> 00:46:55,784
I don't believe in swearing

1059
00:46:55,883 --> 00:46:57,752
and spitting and
gobbing everywhere.

1060
00:46:57,851 --> 00:46:59,521
Punk rocks really taken off

1061
00:46:59,621 --> 00:47:01,922
both in London and in New York.

1062
00:47:02,022 --> 00:47:03,692
And although, anyone thinks

1063
00:47:03,792 --> 00:47:07,127
punk is that great a name for
it, it seems to have stuck.

1064
00:47:07,227 --> 00:47:10,699
There was a huge,
strong music press

1065
00:47:10,799 --> 00:47:15,035
that thrived on exposing
all of this energy,

1066
00:47:15,135 --> 00:47:17,171
this change, this fashion.

1067
00:47:17,271 --> 00:47:18,573
It was very prevalent

1068
00:47:18,673 --> 00:47:21,676
and spread around the
country really quickly.

1069
00:47:21,776 --> 00:47:24,445
It's actually music
born out of a frustration

1070
00:47:24,546 --> 00:47:27,047
to get something across
that is of their own.

1071
00:47:27,147 --> 00:47:29,016
You're also trying
to shock everyone.

1072
00:47:29,116 --> 00:47:30,451
Your clothes are bizarre.

1073
00:47:30,552 --> 00:47:31,919
They ain't bizarre
to young kids.

1074
00:47:32,019 --> 00:47:33,287
Possibly,

1075
00:47:33,387 --> 00:47:35,255
I don't have a safety
pin through my nose.

1076
00:47:35,356 --> 00:47:38,459
<i>McLaren borrowed</i>
<i>the label punk from New York</i>

1077
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,595
<i>where it described a</i>
<i>very particular trend</i>

1078
00:47:40,695 --> 00:47:42,496
<i>in outrageous clothes.</i>

1079
00:47:42,597 --> 00:47:45,533
<i>But London Punk</i>
<i>was very different.</i>

1080
00:47:45,633 --> 00:47:49,671
<i>Raw working class and</i>
<i>deliberately anti-establishment.</i>

1081
00:47:49,771 --> 00:47:52,873
We tapped into a feeling
of unrest in the country,

1082
00:47:52,973 --> 00:47:54,875
without a doubt,
with all the kids.

1083
00:47:54,975 --> 00:47:57,277
And they were all
cutting their hair,

1084
00:47:57,378 --> 00:48:00,047
tearing up their T-shirts.

1085
00:48:00,147 --> 00:48:02,383
I wanted to do
something for me.

1086
00:48:02,483 --> 00:48:04,284
'Cause look at me
now, I'm nothing.

1087
00:48:04,385 --> 00:48:06,721
Vivienne created
something extreme.

1088
00:48:06,821 --> 00:48:07,988
Something they could feel

1089
00:48:08,088 --> 00:48:09,557
that they were actually
doing something in.

1090
00:48:09,657 --> 00:48:11,291
Man can be cynical
about The Pistols

1091
00:48:11,392 --> 00:48:12,660
and say they were a boy band

1092
00:48:12,761 --> 00:48:16,497
that was sort of dressed
by McLaren and Westwood.

1093
00:48:16,598 --> 00:48:17,699
But boy were we jealous

1094
00:48:17,799 --> 00:48:19,900
that they had access
to those clothes

1095
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,538
'cause those clothes were
magnificently heroic.

1096
00:48:23,638 --> 00:48:25,973
I mean I was really
annoyed with The Clash.

1097
00:48:26,073 --> 00:48:28,375
'Cause when we had a rehearsal
place in Denmark Street,

1098
00:48:28,475 --> 00:48:30,545
I decided to paint
the ceiling white.

1099
00:48:30,645 --> 00:48:31,979
But I only had one
pair of trousers

1100
00:48:32,079 --> 00:48:35,115
and I got paint on them
and I couldn't get it off.

1101
00:48:35,215 --> 00:48:36,551
I thought, I'll just
put more paint on it

1102
00:48:36,651 --> 00:48:37,752
and then it sort of became

1103
00:48:37,852 --> 00:48:39,721
this Jackson Pollock
kind of thing.

1104
00:48:39,821 --> 00:48:41,623
When The Clash
played the 100 Club,

1105
00:48:41,723 --> 00:48:44,124
they had a full on Jackson
Pollock kind of look

1106
00:48:44,224 --> 00:48:45,125
and they'd sort
of nicked my idea.

1107
00:48:45,225 --> 00:48:47,094
I was a bit miffed about that.

1108
00:48:51,031 --> 00:48:53,701
Some of these bands had started
doing a few tiny little gigs

1109
00:48:53,802 --> 00:48:57,371
and we assembled them all
for this punk festival.

1110
00:48:57,471 --> 00:48:59,774
And there were all these
other bands playing

1111
00:48:59,874 --> 00:49:01,408
and The Clash played there.

1112
00:49:01,509 --> 00:49:03,444
Siouxsie did her first gig.

1113
00:49:03,545 --> 00:49:04,779
Had
you sung before?

1114
00:49:04,879 --> 00:49:06,714
Not on stage, no.

1115
00:49:06,815 --> 00:49:08,982
Did you
think that is important?

1116
00:49:09,082 --> 00:49:11,586
Um, no.

1117
00:49:11,686 --> 00:49:12,953
And
who was backing you up?

1118
00:49:13,053 --> 00:49:14,955
Sid Vicious on drums.

1119
00:49:15,055 --> 00:49:16,190
Steve Severin on bass.

1120
00:49:16,290 --> 00:49:17,692
It was two nights.

1121
00:49:17,792 --> 00:49:20,662
One night was headlined
by the Sex Pistols

1122
00:49:20,762 --> 00:49:22,963
and the second night
was headlined by me.

1123
00:49:23,063 --> 00:49:26,500
<i>♪ Motorbikin', motorbikin' ♪</i>

1124
00:49:28,670 --> 00:49:32,005
None of those bands had,
had any records out.

1125
00:49:32,105 --> 00:49:34,408
If Malcolm wanted to
promote a festival,

1126
00:49:34,509 --> 00:49:35,910
he had to have a bankable name.

1127
00:49:36,009 --> 00:49:38,412
'Cause I'd had my "Motorbikin"
records the year before,

1128
00:49:38,513 --> 00:49:40,882
Malcolm said, "Well you
gotta come and play."

1129
00:49:40,981 --> 00:49:43,751
And then one day I got a
call from a friend of mine,

1130
00:49:43,852 --> 00:49:46,788
Chrissie Hynde, she used
to work in Malcolm's shop

1131
00:49:46,888 --> 00:49:49,156
and she said, "You gotta
come and see this band."

1132
00:49:49,256 --> 00:49:50,991
And it was the Sex Pistols.

1133
00:49:51,091 --> 00:49:52,827
I was quite impressed
with Steve Jones,

1134
00:49:52,927 --> 00:49:55,996
who was attacking his guitar
and kept breaking strings

1135
00:49:56,096 --> 00:49:58,967
and yet never went out of
tune and still sounded great.

1136
00:49:59,066 --> 00:50:00,467
I said to Malcolm,

1137
00:50:00,568 --> 00:50:03,771
"I know what a record company
would want to sign you.

1138
00:50:03,872 --> 00:50:07,709
They would want a three
song demo. I can do that."

1139
00:50:07,809 --> 00:50:11,579
And we went in the studio
called Majestic in South London.

1140
00:50:11,679 --> 00:50:13,982
And so we set up and
ran a few run throughs.

1141
00:50:14,081 --> 00:50:16,250
And I told
the engineer, take it.

1142
00:50:16,350 --> 00:50:17,317
And he said, "Come
in and listen."

1143
00:50:17,417 --> 00:50:19,019
And we said, "No,
no, no, no, no,

1144
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:20,588
we haven't recorded it yet."

1145
00:50:20,688 --> 00:50:21,823
He said, "No, we have."

1146
00:50:21,923 --> 00:50:22,991
And we said, "No,
we can't have done.

1147
00:50:23,123 --> 00:50:24,291
You didn't put
the red light on."

1148
00:50:24,391 --> 00:50:25,860
And of course,
it sounded great.

1149
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,194
He said we didn't
put the red on

1150
00:50:27,294 --> 00:50:29,229
because it was our
first time in the studio

1151
00:50:29,329 --> 00:50:31,799
and he didn't want us to get
red light fever, he called it,

1152
00:50:31,900 --> 00:50:34,301
where you get uptight and
you start making mistakes.

1153
00:50:34,401 --> 00:50:37,404
By five o'clock in the afternoon
we had three songs down.

1154
00:50:37,505 --> 00:50:40,608
<i>♪ Too many problems,</i>
<i>why am I here ♪</i>

1155
00:50:40,708 --> 00:50:43,578
<i>♪ Need to be 'cause</i>
<i>you're all too clear ♪</i>

1156
00:50:43,678 --> 00:50:45,580
<i>♪ And I can see there's</i>
<i>something wrong with you ♪</i>

1157
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:46,881
Shortly after that,

1158
00:50:46,981 --> 00:50:48,683
they did more recordings
with Dave Goodman.

1159
00:50:49,884 --> 00:50:51,953
Dave suggested that we use

1160
00:50:52,052 --> 00:50:54,187
the rehearsal place
in Denmark Street

1161
00:50:54,288 --> 00:50:58,292
and he had a four-track Revox,
reel-to-reel tape recorder

1162
00:50:58,392 --> 00:51:00,895
and recorded the
band live in there.

1163
00:51:00,995 --> 00:51:04,398
It was good with Dave because
there was no time pressure.

1164
00:51:04,498 --> 00:51:06,668
So we was experimenting
a lot more.

1165
00:51:06,768 --> 00:51:08,502
Doing bubble sounds

1166
00:51:08,603 --> 00:51:10,237
on a teapot for "Submission"

1167
00:51:10,337 --> 00:51:12,540
and overdubbing a bit more.

1168
00:51:14,642 --> 00:51:16,076
And then he
suggested to Malcolm,

1169
00:51:16,176 --> 00:51:18,046
a bit more money we
could get a proper studio

1170
00:51:18,145 --> 00:51:20,548
and record the vocals
there and mix it

1171
00:51:21,983 --> 00:51:24,284
and that became what
is the "Spunk" album.

1172
00:51:24,384 --> 00:51:30,290
<i>♪ Submission, I'm</i>
<i>going down, down ♪</i>

1173
00:51:30,424 --> 00:51:32,292
It wasn't sonically the best,

1174
00:51:33,393 --> 00:51:35,329
but there was some great ideas.

1175
00:51:35,429 --> 00:51:36,296
All right,
what should we do?

1176
00:51:36,396 --> 00:51:37,966
Should we just sing with, oh!

1177
00:51:38,066 --> 00:51:40,068
Every time we were having
a go at recording "Anarchy"

1178
00:51:40,167 --> 00:51:41,435
and when there was a break,

1179
00:51:41,536 --> 00:51:44,104
I'd be on the piano
going, dun, dun-da-dun.

1180
00:51:44,204 --> 00:51:46,708
I had this thing, dun-da.

1181
00:51:46,808 --> 00:51:48,442
And they're going, "Glen,
for fuck sake, shut up."

1182
00:51:48,543 --> 00:51:50,110
I'd go, " No, I've
got something."

1183
00:51:50,210 --> 00:51:52,714
I went home, picked up my
guitar and I found the riff.

1184
00:52:03,156 --> 00:52:05,192
So I had the
beginnings of the riff

1185
00:52:05,292 --> 00:52:07,528
for "God Save the Queen".

1186
00:52:11,431 --> 00:52:12,934
When I came up with the riff,

1187
00:52:13,034 --> 00:52:16,571
I could always imagine Steve
doing it with a bit more,

1188
00:52:18,673 --> 00:52:21,475
It was like a beneficial
kind of partnership.

1189
00:52:21,576 --> 00:52:22,944
And then John had
some lyrics for it

1190
00:52:23,044 --> 00:52:26,714
and then we kind of argued
over how to arrange it.

1191
00:52:26,814 --> 00:52:30,150
<i>♪ God save the Queen ♪</i>

1192
00:52:30,250 --> 00:52:33,186
<i>♪ The fascist regime ♪</i>

1193
00:52:33,286 --> 00:52:35,723
<i>♪ They made you a moron ♪</i>

1194
00:52:35,823 --> 00:52:38,158
We argued morning,
noon and night.

1195
00:52:38,258 --> 00:52:39,961
But you have to
because that's what

1196
00:52:40,061 --> 00:52:43,531
being in a band is
all about, diversity.

1197
00:52:43,631 --> 00:52:45,399
I never liked
anything he ever did

1198
00:52:45,499 --> 00:52:47,935
and he thought
the same about me.

1199
00:52:48,036 --> 00:52:49,537
And we'd meet in the middle

1200
00:52:49,637 --> 00:52:51,238
and it would make
for good records.

1201
00:52:51,338 --> 00:52:53,440
We argue so much
that the frustration

1202
00:52:53,541 --> 00:52:54,742
comes up when we
actually play it.

1203
00:52:54,842 --> 00:52:57,411
To me, if you listen
to the "Spunk" stuff,

1204
00:52:57,512 --> 00:53:00,347
the bass playing, that's where
the little bits of melody

1205
00:53:00,447 --> 00:53:02,617
and counterpoint come in.

1206
00:53:02,717 --> 00:53:04,552
The bass playing
is by far superior

1207
00:53:04,652 --> 00:53:06,821
to the bass playing that
wound up on the album,

1208
00:53:06,921 --> 00:53:08,790
which was kind of
much more methodical

1209
00:53:08,890 --> 00:53:11,025
and just kind of eighth notes.

1210
00:53:11,125 --> 00:53:13,293
I don't think the rest of
the band appreciated him.

1211
00:53:13,393 --> 00:53:15,596
You needed somebody with
a bit of musical know how

1212
00:53:15,697 --> 00:53:18,666
and a bit of confidence
and Glen had that.

1213
00:53:18,766 --> 00:53:20,668
Hang on. Dave Dew speaking.
This is Chris Parry.

1214
00:53:20,768 --> 00:53:22,402
Hello Doug
D'Arcy, Chrysalis Records.

1215
00:53:22,502 --> 00:53:24,072
They were a
particularly ugly band.

1216
00:53:24,172 --> 00:53:25,073
That's dreadful.

1217
00:53:27,008 --> 00:53:28,042
I was the one that
picked up the phone

1218
00:53:28,142 --> 00:53:30,712
when Malcolm McLaren called.

1219
00:53:30,812 --> 00:53:33,380
And so I went down and
saw them at the 100 Club.

1220
00:53:35,415 --> 00:53:36,851
This band was doing
something interesting

1221
00:53:36,951 --> 00:53:38,452
and they were
making great noises.

1222
00:53:38,553 --> 00:53:40,021
They had something to say

1223
00:53:40,121 --> 00:53:42,623
and I talked my boss
into signing them.

1224
00:53:45,292 --> 00:53:46,661
The rest was troubled history.

1225
00:53:48,529 --> 00:53:51,231
When we got the record
deal with EMI it was,

1226
00:53:51,331 --> 00:53:55,268
for me, you gonna go
with this or you're not?

1227
00:53:55,368 --> 00:53:56,637
It was a big thing to leave

1228
00:53:56,738 --> 00:53:59,640
an apprenticeship at
the time in a good job.

1229
00:53:59,741 --> 00:54:01,542
And everyone said, "You're mad.

1230
00:54:01,642 --> 00:54:03,310
You'll never do
anything with this band.

1231
00:54:03,410 --> 00:54:05,747
They're rubbish, they
can't play," et cetera.

1232
00:54:05,847 --> 00:54:08,583
But I knew there was
something good going on there.

1233
00:54:10,184 --> 00:54:13,521
Prior to us being presented
with a recording contract,

1234
00:54:13,621 --> 00:54:16,791
we got presented with
a management contract

1235
00:54:16,891 --> 00:54:18,726
and I kind of read through it

1236
00:54:18,826 --> 00:54:21,428
and Malcolm wanted to
take 25% off the top.

1237
00:54:21,529 --> 00:54:24,165
And Steve and Paul
were like, "Oh."

1238
00:54:24,264 --> 00:54:26,399
John wasn't there and
I mentioned it to John

1239
00:54:26,500 --> 00:54:28,569
and he said he was
gonna sign it anyway.

1240
00:54:28,669 --> 00:54:30,337
But he actually said to me when
we were signing it, he said,

1241
00:54:30,437 --> 00:54:33,808
"Glen, you've read
it and I haven't.

1242
00:54:33,908 --> 00:54:36,744
If there's anything wrong
with it's your fault."

1243
00:54:36,844 --> 00:54:38,780
Me and Steve, we was
just happy to be in a band.

1244
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,717
We didn't worry about
contracts and stuff like that.

1245
00:54:42,817 --> 00:54:44,317
They were trying.

1246
00:54:44,417 --> 00:54:47,487
Malcolm definitely saw an
opportunity and milked it.

1247
00:54:47,588 --> 00:54:49,657
The first time we
played with the Pistols,

1248
00:54:49,757 --> 00:54:51,859
I think we paid five pounds

1249
00:54:51,959 --> 00:54:55,495
and Malcolm wanted 25
quid to use the PA.

1250
00:54:55,596 --> 00:54:57,330
You know he could
be such a cunt.

1251
00:54:57,430 --> 00:55:00,768
But I always liked Malcolm,
'cause he was a hustler.

1252
00:55:00,868 --> 00:55:03,538
He was the fifth member
of the band, if you like.

1253
00:55:03,638 --> 00:55:06,040
The Svengali, the manipulator

1254
00:55:06,140 --> 00:55:09,143
and all those other terms
people level at him.

1255
00:55:09,243 --> 00:55:11,612
Look, most of them
true, by the way.

1256
00:55:11,712 --> 00:55:15,448
After we signed to EMI,
we're straight in the studio

1257
00:55:15,550 --> 00:55:18,953
and because we'd done the
demos with Dave Goodman,

1258
00:55:19,053 --> 00:55:21,789
we thought we'd give
Dave a shot producing

1259
00:55:21,889 --> 00:55:25,827
and Dave wasn't a proper,
fully fledged producer.

1260
00:55:25,927 --> 00:55:28,529
<i>♪ I am an antichrist ♪</i>

1261
00:55:28,629 --> 00:55:30,064
And we would, literally,

1262
00:55:30,164 --> 00:55:34,068
do "Anarchy" in the
studio a thousand times.

1263
00:55:34,168 --> 00:55:35,468
You know we wanted
to get it right.

1264
00:55:35,570 --> 00:55:36,971
I wanted to make
the heaviest song

1265
00:55:37,071 --> 00:55:38,940
that had ever been
in the universe.

1266
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,341
And he was fucking
stoned with weed.

1267
00:55:41,441 --> 00:55:42,977
And we're like this is a joke.

1268
00:55:43,077 --> 00:55:45,146
So effectively,
we went on strike

1269
00:55:45,246 --> 00:55:47,347
and Paul Cook
suggested Chris Thomas,

1270
00:55:47,447 --> 00:55:49,449
who produced Roxy Music

1271
00:55:49,550 --> 00:55:52,086
and Chris Spedding had
taken Chris Thomas down

1272
00:55:52,186 --> 00:55:54,021
to see us at the 100 Club.

1273
00:55:54,121 --> 00:55:55,556
So he was up for it.

1274
00:55:55,656 --> 00:55:59,026
Maybe a week later,
we're in Wessex Studios,

1275
00:55:59,126 --> 00:56:01,195
Queen were there
and we walked in

1276
00:56:01,295 --> 00:56:02,797
and Freddie's in full tilt

1277
00:56:02,897 --> 00:56:05,299
and we're like, "Woooh,
I'm sorry," you know.

1278
00:56:05,398 --> 00:56:06,433
But they were cool, Queen.

1279
00:56:06,534 --> 00:56:08,368
They let us have
some of their time

1280
00:56:08,468 --> 00:56:09,937
to record the single quickly.

1281
00:56:12,607 --> 00:56:14,642
And we did "Anarchy"
in two takes.

1282
00:56:14,742 --> 00:56:16,010
That was it. He said he got us.

1283
00:56:16,110 --> 00:56:17,945
'Cause Chris knew
when enough was enough

1284
00:56:18,045 --> 00:56:19,680
and that it was good enough.

1285
00:56:19,780 --> 00:56:22,950
And it's funny, it
finishes how it finishes

1286
00:56:23,050 --> 00:56:24,085
because the tape run out.

1287
00:56:24,185 --> 00:56:26,419
That's why it goes, blemm.

1288
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,656
I think that was
one of the best times,

1289
00:56:28,756 --> 00:56:32,093
my whole time in the Sex
Pistols, was recording.

1290
00:56:32,193 --> 00:56:34,028
That's the only song
Glen plays bass on,

1291
00:56:34,128 --> 00:56:36,264
on "Never Mind the Bollocks".

1292
00:56:36,364 --> 00:56:37,798
When we were in
the studio together,

1293
00:56:37,899 --> 00:56:40,935
it was just a question
of getting the music down

1294
00:56:41,035 --> 00:56:42,236
and getting it done well.

1295
00:56:42,336 --> 00:56:43,771
They were professional.

1296
00:56:43,871 --> 00:56:47,241
It was definitely not the
image that was publicized.

1297
00:56:47,341 --> 00:56:50,544
Only a couple of days
later, as I opened the door,

1298
00:56:50,645 --> 00:56:53,881
Freddie Mercury is like
bending over by the door

1299
00:56:53,981 --> 00:56:55,482
and he was listening.

1300
00:56:55,583 --> 00:56:58,485
Queen, they were quite big
in the Sex Pistols career.

1301
00:56:58,586 --> 00:57:00,922
The whole reason we did
the "Bill Grundy Show"

1302
00:57:01,022 --> 00:57:02,390
'cause Queen was
supposed to do it,

1303
00:57:02,489 --> 00:57:05,593
but Freddie Mercury had
a bad toothache that day

1304
00:57:05,693 --> 00:57:07,094
and pulled out,

1305
00:57:07,194 --> 00:57:09,096
Oh, the famous Bill
Grundy interview.

1306
00:57:09,196 --> 00:57:11,232
Yes, I do remember it.

1307
00:57:11,332 --> 00:57:13,567
We was in Kilburn rehearsing.

1308
00:57:13,668 --> 00:57:15,937
All of a sudden a phone
call comes through,

1309
00:57:16,037 --> 00:57:17,470
we're sending the car for you.

1310
00:57:17,571 --> 00:57:19,006
Malcolm says, "If
you don't do it,

1311
00:57:19,106 --> 00:57:20,942
you don't get your
wages this week."

1312
00:57:21,042 --> 00:57:22,977
Then we're in the studio
behind the cameras,

1313
00:57:23,077 --> 00:57:26,147
there's Siouxsie and half
Bromley Contingent are there

1314
00:57:26,247 --> 00:57:27,548
and it's like, hmm.

1315
00:57:27,648 --> 00:57:30,084
And then this guy comes
on set, Bill Grundy.

1316
00:57:30,184 --> 00:57:32,920
Are punk rockers. The
new craze they tell me.

1317
00:57:33,020 --> 00:57:35,723
Now Bill Grundy was
a really big deal guy.

1318
00:57:35,823 --> 00:57:38,759
He was Walter Cronkite
kind of territory

1319
00:57:38,859 --> 00:57:40,962
and he had a real
attitude with us.

1320
00:57:41,062 --> 00:57:43,030
Not the nice, clean
Rolling Stones.

1321
00:57:44,332 --> 00:57:45,299
You see, they're
as drunk as I am.

1322
00:57:45,399 --> 00:57:46,901
They're clean by comparison.

1323
00:57:47,001 --> 00:57:49,170
They're a group called
the Sex Pistols.

1324
00:57:49,270 --> 00:57:51,739
And the shit hit the fan.

1325
00:57:51,839 --> 00:57:55,509
I am told that, that
group have received

1326
00:57:55,609 --> 00:57:58,212
40,000 pounds from
a record company.

1327
00:57:58,312 --> 00:58:00,348
Doesn't that seem to
be slightly opposed

1328
00:58:00,448 --> 00:58:03,483
to their anti-materialistic
view of life?

1329
00:58:03,584 --> 00:58:04,885
-No, the more the merrier.
-Really?

1330
00:58:04,986 --> 00:58:06,053
Oh yeah.

1331
00:58:06,153 --> 00:58:07,421
Well,
tell me more then.

1332
00:58:07,521 --> 00:58:08,389
We've fuckin'
spent it, ain't we?

1333
00:58:08,488 --> 00:58:09,423
I don't know. Have you?

1334
00:58:09,523 --> 00:58:11,058
Yeah, it's all gone.

1335
00:58:11,158 --> 00:58:12,793
Steve had found
a bottle of wine

1336
00:58:12,893 --> 00:58:14,795
and he's drunk pretty
much all of it to himself

1337
00:58:14,895 --> 00:58:16,030
and it's starting kicking in.

1338
00:58:16,130 --> 00:58:18,466
And it just went
from bad to worse.

1339
00:58:18,566 --> 00:58:20,801
John swore accidentally,
he said shit

1340
00:58:20,901 --> 00:58:21,936
and he pushed him on it.

1341
00:58:22,036 --> 00:58:22,970
It's what?

1342
00:58:23,070 --> 00:58:24,772
Nothing. A rude word.

1343
00:58:24,872 --> 00:58:26,107
Next question.

1344
00:58:26,207 --> 00:58:28,376
No, no. What
was the rude word?

1345
00:58:28,476 --> 00:58:30,311
-Shit
-Was it really?

1346
00:58:30,411 --> 00:58:32,013
Good heavens, you
frighten me to death.

1347
00:58:32,113 --> 00:58:33,314
Oh all right, Siegfried

1348
00:58:33,414 --> 00:58:34,215
What about
you girls behind?

1349
00:58:34,315 --> 00:58:35,216
Always wanted to meet you.

1350
00:58:35,316 --> 00:58:36,584
-Did you really?
-Yeah.

1351
00:58:36,684 --> 00:58:37,818
We'll meet
afterwards, shall we?

1352
00:58:37,918 --> 00:58:40,388
-Yeah.
-You dirty sod.

1353
00:58:40,488 --> 00:58:41,455
Go on, you've
got another five seconds.

1354
00:58:41,555 --> 00:58:42,390
Say something outrageous.

1355
00:58:42,490 --> 00:58:44,592
You dirty bastard.

1356
00:58:44,692 --> 00:58:45,359
Go on, again.

1357
00:58:45,459 --> 00:58:46,794
You dirty fucker.

1358
00:58:46,894 --> 00:58:47,995
What a clever boy.

1359
00:58:48,095 --> 00:58:49,764
What a fucking rotter.

1360
00:58:49,864 --> 00:58:51,065
Well, that's it for tonight.
While the show's going on,

1361
00:58:51,165 --> 00:58:53,601
I could see Malcolm
just behind the camera.

1362
00:58:53,701 --> 00:58:55,269
Malcolm would go, "Oh, no."

1363
00:58:55,369 --> 00:58:57,238
As we went off, he was white.

1364
00:58:57,338 --> 00:58:58,973
He said, "You've done it now."

1365
00:58:59,073 --> 00:59:00,274
Dragged me out.

1366
00:59:00,374 --> 00:59:01,842
We got in the car and as
we're just pulling away

1367
00:59:01,942 --> 00:59:04,278
a Black Maria turned
up, a police van.

1368
00:59:04,378 --> 00:59:06,714
There were these police, they're
rushing into the TV studio

1369
00:59:06,814 --> 00:59:08,349
with their truncheons out

1370
00:59:08,449 --> 00:59:09,683
and we're sort of
like waving to them.

1371
00:59:09,784 --> 00:59:10,885
What?
Rotter.

1372
00:59:10,985 --> 00:59:12,153
Well, that's
it for tonight.

1373
00:59:12,253 --> 00:59:14,688
It was going out
live on prime-time TV

1374
00:59:14,789 --> 00:59:17,291
just after the news when
millions of people watched it.

1375
00:59:17,391 --> 00:59:19,360
And I didn't know my dad

1376
00:59:19,460 --> 00:59:20,694
had called around
the family saying,

1377
00:59:20,795 --> 00:59:22,430
"Hey, Glen's gonna
be on the TV."

1378
00:59:22,531 --> 00:59:23,831
And we didn't speak

1379
00:59:23,931 --> 00:59:24,565
for a year.

1380
00:59:25,566 --> 00:59:29,336
It all got crazy very quickly

1381
00:59:29,437 --> 00:59:33,040
once the publicity
machine started rolling,

1382
00:59:33,140 --> 00:59:35,443
The greatest technique

1383
00:59:35,544 --> 00:59:38,379
involved in managing
the Sex Pistols

1384
00:59:38,479 --> 00:59:41,315
was always to create
the right explosion

1385
00:59:41,415 --> 00:59:43,484
and then know that
it was gonna happen.

1386
00:59:43,584 --> 00:59:47,288
And as a manager,
run into the toilet

1387
00:59:47,388 --> 00:59:50,858
and come out after the explosion
and say, "God, what's happened?"

1388
00:59:50,958 --> 00:59:52,860
Really? I didn't notice that.

1389
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,729
Although he sat back later on
and said he had sort of
made all that happen.

1390
00:59:55,830 --> 00:59:57,731
I think he was terrified
that he'd blown it for them.

1391
00:59:57,832 --> 00:59:59,934
Why all
the infamous language.

1392
01:00:01,570 --> 01:00:03,572
Infamous
language. You're joking.

1393
01:00:05,306 --> 01:00:07,875
They were famous in England

1394
01:00:07,975 --> 01:00:09,310
before they even
had a record out

1395
01:00:09,410 --> 01:00:10,711
and I don't think
that's ever happened

1396
01:00:10,811 --> 01:00:12,480
before in the music industry.

1397
01:00:12,581 --> 01:00:16,083
Punk was all about
revolution. It was an attitude.

1398
01:00:16,183 --> 01:00:18,719
Then they became a
figurehead for that attitude.

1399
01:00:18,819 --> 01:00:20,187
And willingly or not,

1400
01:00:20,287 --> 01:00:23,457
they became the visible
leaders of a movement.

1401
01:00:23,558 --> 01:00:26,293
Unseen, dangers,
awaited, punks in the dark.

1402
01:00:26,393 --> 01:00:28,062
There
was ramifications.

1403
01:00:28,162 --> 01:00:31,465
John got attacked by
more right-wing people

1404
01:00:31,566 --> 01:00:34,502
who thought we were
decrying the nation.

1405
01:00:34,603 --> 01:00:37,037
It was a very dangerous time
for us after the Grundy Show

1406
01:00:37,138 --> 01:00:39,707
and we were public enemy
number one, for sure.

1407
01:00:39,807 --> 01:00:41,510
They're trying to put
it across the country,

1408
01:00:41,610 --> 01:00:44,678
starting in Britain,
but we're not having it.

1409
01:00:44,778 --> 01:00:47,314
That is why we've given them

1410
01:00:47,414 --> 01:00:48,682
a good hyding every
time we meet them.

1411
01:00:48,782 --> 01:00:51,352
I got attacked walking
down on Shepherd's Bush.

1412
01:00:51,452 --> 01:00:53,454
I just came out of the station

1413
01:00:53,555 --> 01:00:55,189
with my girlfriend at the time

1414
01:00:55,289 --> 01:00:57,992
and these four rockabillys,
Teds, whatever you call them,

1415
01:00:58,092 --> 01:01:01,395
didn't like the fact that I
was wearing Brothel Creepers.

1416
01:01:01,495 --> 01:01:03,264
I said, "What? It's just a shoe.

1417
01:01:03,364 --> 01:01:04,331
Why, what's the problem?"

1418
01:01:04,431 --> 01:01:06,133
Anyway, bang and I got attacked.

1419
01:01:06,233 --> 01:01:07,636
Yeah, ended up in hospital.

1420
01:01:09,136 --> 01:01:10,171
We had to watch our backs.

1421
01:01:10,271 --> 01:01:12,206
It was a pretty dangerous time.

1422
01:01:16,076 --> 01:01:17,211
You start taking your life
in your hands a little bit,

1423
01:01:17,311 --> 01:01:18,746
wearing your punk threads.

1424
01:01:18,846 --> 01:01:21,115
It was almost like
war was declared.

1425
01:01:21,215 --> 01:01:22,383
On Charing Cross Station

1426
01:01:22,483 --> 01:01:24,118
and I was kind of
just looking off at,

1427
01:01:24,218 --> 01:01:25,753
I don't know, when
the train's coming.

1428
01:01:25,853 --> 01:01:30,592
The next minute, <i>doo</i>, got
punched in the side of the face

1429
01:01:31,892 --> 01:01:33,127
and then I saw a pair of
black Brothel Creepers

1430
01:01:33,227 --> 01:01:37,264
walking away so I knew I
got ambushed, you know,

1431
01:01:37,364 --> 01:01:38,832
I mean the national press

1432
01:01:38,933 --> 01:01:41,468
had exploited punk for
its sensation value

1433
01:01:41,570 --> 01:01:44,438
and the violence really
stems from their coverage

1434
01:01:44,539 --> 01:01:46,907
and the fact that they've
only really given coverage

1435
01:01:47,007 --> 01:01:48,075
to the more violent aspects.

1436
01:01:48,175 --> 01:01:50,545
Not to any of the ideals

1437
01:01:50,645 --> 01:01:53,548
and, certainly, not very
much to the music at all.

1438
01:01:59,220 --> 01:02:02,423
We had a tour planned,
the Anarchy Tour.

1439
01:02:02,524 --> 01:02:04,225
Malcolm, he had
that kind of idea

1440
01:02:04,325 --> 01:02:06,994
that we'd have some kind
of punk rock review.

1441
01:02:07,094 --> 01:02:09,330
So we had The Clash, The Damned

1442
01:02:09,430 --> 01:02:12,534
and he brought over from the
States, the Heartbreakers.

1443
01:02:14,034 --> 01:02:17,871
We were going around in his
coach from place to place.

1444
01:02:17,972 --> 01:02:21,408
As we're turning up to a show
and then it was canceled.

1445
01:02:22,611 --> 01:02:24,478
We were supposed to
have like 23 gigs

1446
01:02:24,579 --> 01:02:27,348
or something around the country

1447
01:02:27,448 --> 01:02:28,382
and we're starting being banned.

1448
01:02:28,482 --> 01:02:29,883
One of the most reviewed

1449
01:02:29,984 --> 01:02:32,753
and most reviled rock
phenomenon of recent weeks.

1450
01:02:32,853 --> 01:02:34,054
Do you really
think that punk rockers

1451
01:02:34,154 --> 01:02:35,724
are such a threat to society

1452
01:02:35,823 --> 01:02:37,358
that you're justified in
banning their concerts?

1453
01:02:37,458 --> 01:02:40,828
We are responsible
for public safety.

1454
01:02:40,928 --> 01:02:43,632
There was such a
storm around them.

1455
01:02:43,732 --> 01:02:45,833
You couldn't do anything.
Even we couldn't do anything.

1456
01:02:45,933 --> 01:02:48,802
I remember one specific
and they just came up

1457
01:02:48,902 --> 01:02:50,505
and threw us out immediately

1458
01:02:50,605 --> 01:02:53,474
just because we were banned
on tour with the Sex Pistols.

1459
01:02:53,575 --> 01:02:54,875
Mr.
Stabler, you can't watch

1460
01:02:54,975 --> 01:02:56,410
punk concerts in
Newcastle, either.

1461
01:02:56,511 --> 01:02:58,879
The decision was
made when we discovered

1462
01:02:58,979 --> 01:03:01,949
it was mere children that would
be watching the performance.

1463
01:03:02,049 --> 01:03:04,285
Now, out of all those dates,

1464
01:03:04,385 --> 01:03:07,121
how many dates would
you say are there, look?

1465
01:03:07,221 --> 01:03:10,491
I think we only did
five or six dates

1466
01:03:10,592 --> 01:03:11,859
and we're lucky we got them.

1467
01:03:13,260 --> 01:03:14,529
We had to go to show

1468
01:03:14,629 --> 01:03:16,864
that we wasn't gonna
accept their censorship.

1469
01:03:16,964 --> 01:03:18,399
It was very frustrating.

1470
01:03:19,768 --> 01:03:21,502
We had fair
amount of rude journalists

1471
01:03:21,603 --> 01:03:25,406
following us round and finding
out where we were staying.

1472
01:03:25,507 --> 01:03:28,342
And I went and got a cup of
tea in a bar room, came back,

1473
01:03:28,442 --> 01:03:31,111
got on the coach first, I
had the window open slightly

1474
01:03:31,211 --> 01:03:32,514
and I heard one saying to other,

1475
01:03:32,614 --> 01:03:33,881
"Oh, Fred, how'd you go?

1476
01:03:33,981 --> 01:03:36,016
Did you get a quote
from anybody?"

1477
01:03:36,116 --> 01:03:37,752
He said, "Yeah."

1478
01:03:37,851 --> 01:03:40,120
He said, "I got two fucks and
a shit from Johnny Rotten."

1479
01:03:40,220 --> 01:03:42,923
Just sells their papers
putting us in it now.

1480
01:03:43,023 --> 01:03:43,924
You know what I mean?

1481
01:03:44,024 --> 01:03:45,459
-Yeah.
-Put us on the front

1482
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:49,330
just sells their papers
and it's bit stupid really.

1483
01:03:49,430 --> 01:03:50,699
Because we weren't
allowed to play

1484
01:03:50,799 --> 01:03:53,568
and we was cooped up in
this bus all the time,

1485
01:03:55,969 --> 01:04:00,407
it started creating kind of
problems within the band.

1486
01:04:00,508 --> 01:04:02,843
Became kind of quite factional.

1487
01:04:04,512 --> 01:04:07,014
Steve and Paul were always
a bit of a double act,

1488
01:04:07,114 --> 01:04:09,617
which I felt they were
always a bit standoffish,

1489
01:04:09,718 --> 01:04:11,786
though, they'd
kind of let you in.

1490
01:04:11,885 --> 01:04:14,421
Maybe John felt a bit
threatened by it or Glen did.

1491
01:04:14,522 --> 01:04:17,358
I don't know. But
yeah, we were close.

1492
01:04:17,458 --> 01:04:20,628
I know what I think and
that's all that counts to me.

1493
01:04:20,729 --> 01:04:24,198
I don't try and impress
anybody, but myself.

1494
01:04:24,298 --> 01:04:26,467
It'd been a simmering
thing between me and John.

1495
01:04:28,837 --> 01:04:30,739
I think personally 'cause,

1496
01:04:30,839 --> 01:04:32,306
and I'm not the only
person who's said this,

1497
01:04:32,406 --> 01:04:35,042
but you know once he got
his face in the papers,

1498
01:04:35,142 --> 01:04:36,678
he became a bit more arrogant

1499
01:04:36,778 --> 01:04:38,680
and everything had to
be his way all the time

1500
01:04:38,780 --> 01:04:42,617
and I thought we was
in a band, you know.

1501
01:04:42,717 --> 01:04:45,452
It is be hard living up
to your image sometimes?

1502
01:04:45,553 --> 01:04:47,454
What image? I never
thought I had one.

1503
01:04:47,555 --> 01:04:48,989
Well,
what do you think

1504
01:04:49,089 --> 01:04:50,924
I change from day to day.

1505
01:04:51,024 --> 01:04:54,094
There was always animosity
between John and Glen anyway,

1506
01:04:55,764 --> 01:04:58,733
even back to the very
early days when I was just

1507
01:04:58,833 --> 01:05:00,200
standing on the side of
the stage watching them

1508
01:05:00,300 --> 01:05:02,503
and John would always
give Glen shit.

1509
01:05:03,772 --> 01:05:05,105
Do
you feel the publicity

1510
01:05:05,205 --> 01:05:07,274
following the television
interview has been damaging

1511
01:05:07,374 --> 01:05:08,676
or do you think it's helped you?

1512
01:05:10,344 --> 01:05:12,379
I don't think it's been
damaging far from it.

1513
01:05:12,479 --> 01:05:14,649
Whether it's helping
us is another matter.

1514
01:05:14,749 --> 01:05:16,483
Later on, there
was a frustration

1515
01:05:16,584 --> 01:05:19,721
that I found out that we
could play in certain places.

1516
01:05:19,821 --> 01:05:21,021
Went to see the Ramones

1517
01:05:21,121 --> 01:05:22,524
when they finally
come over to England

1518
01:05:22,624 --> 01:05:24,191
and some promoter
asked me, he said,

1519
01:05:24,291 --> 01:05:26,528
"Hey, Glen, you can't play?"

1520
01:05:26,628 --> 01:05:27,862
And I said, "No."

1521
01:05:27,961 --> 01:05:29,463
He said, "I'll put
you on. Tell Malcolm."

1522
01:05:29,564 --> 01:05:32,332
So I tell Malcolm. He's goes,
"No, no, you're banned."

1523
01:05:32,433 --> 01:05:35,068
Hang on, I wanna be in a band

1524
01:05:35,169 --> 01:05:37,739
because I wanna be a
musician and I wanna play.

1525
01:05:37,839 --> 01:05:39,173
And I started to think

1526
01:05:39,273 --> 01:05:41,341
there was a bit of
dishonesty involved.

1527
01:05:46,581 --> 01:05:49,383
We ended up in London
just before Christmas,

1528
01:05:49,483 --> 01:05:52,554
penniless without a real
sense of achievement.

1529
01:05:54,388 --> 01:05:57,991
And then the record company,
while we was away on tour,

1530
01:05:58,091 --> 01:06:02,129
and had got a load of shit,
backlash from the TV show

1531
01:06:02,229 --> 01:06:04,131
and they pulled the record.

1532
01:06:04,231 --> 01:06:06,333
The ground floor was very
unhappy about that firing.

1533
01:06:06,433 --> 01:06:08,368
It was just the big bosses.

1534
01:06:08,469 --> 01:06:10,170
The way I read it was that EMI

1535
01:06:10,270 --> 01:06:13,173
was very close to the
British establishment.

1536
01:06:13,273 --> 01:06:15,743
You know, they had friends
in Parliament and all that.

1537
01:06:15,844 --> 01:06:17,444
And the guy, who was
the head guy of EMI,

1538
01:06:17,545 --> 01:06:19,781
when not running
the record company

1539
01:06:19,881 --> 01:06:21,649
would have dinner
with the Queen,

1540
01:06:21,749 --> 01:06:23,551
<i>The</i>
<i>anti-establishment Sex Pistols</i>

1541
01:06:23,651 --> 01:06:25,352
<i>called in the</i>
<i>establishment press</i>

1542
01:06:25,452 --> 01:06:27,020
<i>to protest what had</i>
<i>happened to them.</i>

1543
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:28,489
Okay, you want
to get your music across,

1544
01:06:28,590 --> 01:06:31,024
but do you feel maybe the fact

1545
01:06:31,124 --> 01:06:32,392
that you can't do
that commercially

1546
01:06:32,493 --> 01:06:33,928
is because of the
way you've behaved?

1547
01:06:34,027 --> 01:06:37,699
Oh no, I'm not
gonna come down to their level.

1548
01:06:37,799 --> 01:06:42,169
The next thing, we're
on a plane to Amsterdam.

1549
01:06:42,269 --> 01:06:43,938
We did a TV show there.

1550
01:06:44,037 --> 01:06:46,574
And then we played
at the Paradiso

1551
01:06:46,674 --> 01:06:49,577
and then we went to Rotterdam
and played and flew home.

1552
01:06:49,677 --> 01:06:52,580
But you know, things
were getting bad.

1553
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:54,248
Then John was on my case

1554
01:06:54,348 --> 01:06:57,084
and I was just beginning to get
fed up with the whole thing.

1555
01:06:59,353 --> 01:07:01,188
And I had a meeting with
Steve and Paul and Malcolm

1556
01:07:01,288 --> 01:07:04,491
in this restaurant we used
to go to in Covent Garden.

1557
01:07:04,592 --> 01:07:08,028
I'd found out that they'd tried
to have a rehearsal with Sid

1558
01:07:08,128 --> 01:07:10,030
and I wasn't supposed
to know, but I did know

1559
01:07:10,130 --> 01:07:11,465
and I thought, well
that's out of order.

1560
01:07:11,566 --> 01:07:13,100
There's this big hoo-ha

1561
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:15,603
and Malcolm says it's
all a big secret, man.

1562
01:07:15,703 --> 01:07:19,106
Come down to this pub at
such and such, you know.

1563
01:07:19,206 --> 01:07:20,608
And I thought they
were gonna do me over

1564
01:07:20,708 --> 01:07:21,976
'cause I didn't turn up

1565
01:07:22,075 --> 01:07:25,112
to one of Rotten's
parties or something.

1566
01:07:25,212 --> 01:07:28,883
John sort of manipulated
the situation with Malcolm

1567
01:07:29,918 --> 01:07:31,019
to get rid of Glen.

1568
01:07:31,118 --> 01:07:33,120
And whether he'd done it

1569
01:07:33,220 --> 01:07:35,489
because he wanted his
mate sit in the band

1570
01:07:35,590 --> 01:07:37,357
so he could feel
more comfortable

1571
01:07:37,457 --> 01:07:39,293
up against me and
Steve, I don't know,

1572
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:41,629
At this meeting Paul says,

1573
01:07:43,297 --> 01:07:45,499
"Look, we know you're
not getting on with John.

1574
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:49,336
Can't you just pretend
that you like him?"

1575
01:07:49,436 --> 01:07:52,105
And I thought, I'm
coming up with his ideas.

1576
01:07:52,205 --> 01:07:53,407
You guys don't really realize

1577
01:07:53,508 --> 01:07:54,776
what side of your
bread's buttered.

1578
01:07:54,876 --> 01:07:57,210
Why can't you guys back
me up a little bit?

1579
01:07:57,311 --> 01:08:00,548
And I said, "Then you want
me to pretend I like John?"

1580
01:08:00,648 --> 01:08:02,684
I said, "No, I can't
really do that."

1581
01:08:02,784 --> 01:08:06,286
At the end of the day,
John said he wasn't gonna,

1582
01:08:06,386 --> 01:08:08,422
couldn't go on with
Glen in the band.

1583
01:08:08,523 --> 01:08:12,760
And so it was either the
band broke up or Glen left.

1584
01:08:12,860 --> 01:08:15,530
It was one of the
only times that John

1585
01:08:15,630 --> 01:08:18,198
and Malcolm were in
sync with each other.

1586
01:08:21,501 --> 01:08:25,740
And by that time, the vast
majority of the songs on

1587
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:27,742
"Never Mind The Bollocks"
had been written

1588
01:08:27,842 --> 01:08:29,376
and that was kind
of that really.

1589
01:08:33,581 --> 01:08:36,316
I liked Glen. We
liked the same music.

1590
01:08:36,416 --> 01:08:37,619
I got along with him great.

1591
01:08:37,719 --> 01:08:40,287
I think it just got
too weird for him.

1592
01:08:40,387 --> 01:08:41,889
I know Glen said he left.

1593
01:08:41,990 --> 01:08:43,891
Malcolm says he got fired.

1594
01:08:43,992 --> 01:08:46,694
It was weird and there's Sid.

1595
01:08:46,794 --> 01:08:49,697
And we just carried on,
like, oh, all right, okay.

1596
01:08:49,797 --> 01:08:51,766
We kind of just cowardly
went along with it,

1597
01:08:51,866 --> 01:08:55,003
I guess, to just
keep everyone happy.

1598
01:08:55,103 --> 01:08:59,139
And in retrospect, we should've
maybe stuck up for Glen

1599
01:08:59,239 --> 01:09:00,307
and kept him in the band.

1600
01:09:00,407 --> 01:09:01,576
Who knows what
would've happened.

1601
01:09:03,878 --> 01:09:06,514
As far as I'm concerned,
I quit and that was that.

1602
01:09:08,082 --> 01:09:09,617
I'd shaken hands
with Steve and Paul

1603
01:09:09,717 --> 01:09:13,554
and Malcolm before he sent
the telegram to the NME.

1604
01:09:16,289 --> 01:09:17,558
I thought it was the
stupidest fucking move

1605
01:09:17,659 --> 01:09:19,259
they ever made.

1606
01:09:19,359 --> 01:09:21,395
They say they threw him out
because he liked The Beatles.

1607
01:09:21,495 --> 01:09:24,231
Well, fuck you if you
don't like The Beatles.

1608
01:09:24,331 --> 01:09:27,401
I never bought into
Malcolm's sort of PR

1609
01:09:27,501 --> 01:09:28,936
that you know, oh,
we've kicked him out

1610
01:09:29,037 --> 01:09:30,972
'cause he likes The Beatles.

1611
01:09:31,072 --> 01:09:32,607
But I think what Malcolm
was really saying

1612
01:09:32,707 --> 01:09:34,876
is we kicked him out
'cause he's too musical.

1613
01:09:34,976 --> 01:09:36,511
It proved to me
then at that point

1614
01:09:36,611 --> 01:09:38,012
that this was not a band

1615
01:09:38,112 --> 01:09:41,415
that Malcolm had any
interest in having longevity,

1616
01:09:41,516 --> 01:09:44,786
musical development of any
kind or even staying together.

1617
01:09:44,886 --> 01:09:46,453
He wanted to destroy it

1618
01:09:46,554 --> 01:09:49,456
and he destroyed it by putting
this crazy guy in on bass

1619
01:09:49,557 --> 01:09:51,358
who couldn't even play bass.

1620
01:09:51,458 --> 01:09:53,061
It felt to me that
the musical heart

1621
01:09:53,161 --> 01:09:54,461
had been torn out the band.

1622
01:09:57,098 --> 01:09:59,033
Steve and myself
were very concerned

1623
01:09:59,133 --> 01:10:00,400
when Glen left the band.

1624
01:10:00,500 --> 01:10:02,570
But we was pushed
into a corner, really,

1625
01:10:02,670 --> 01:10:03,971
and we had no option.

1626
01:10:04,072 --> 01:10:06,140
I was left to write "Holidays"

1627
01:10:06,239 --> 01:10:08,609
and a few others, "No Feelings".

1628
01:10:08,710 --> 01:10:12,279
It definitely changed
the dynamics major.

1629
01:10:12,379 --> 01:10:14,982
I was the mug who had
to try and teach Sid

1630
01:10:15,083 --> 01:10:16,617
where to put his
fingers on the bass.

1631
01:10:16,718 --> 01:10:18,786
That's the last thing
I wanted to be doing.

1632
01:10:18,886 --> 01:10:20,188
Sid couldn't play bass.

1633
01:10:20,287 --> 01:10:21,789
I mean, well who gives a shit.

1634
01:10:21,889 --> 01:10:24,559
We should
turn him down in takes.

1635
01:10:24,659 --> 01:10:26,761
Sometimes you should
turn him off actually.

1636
01:10:26,861 --> 01:10:30,430
I think we'd
all the dials on the M.

1637
01:10:30,531 --> 01:10:32,967
Should we do that for a pound?

1638
01:10:33,067 --> 01:10:34,367
Don't worry, Sid.

1639
01:10:34,468 --> 01:10:36,137
You don't need to worry
about fucking pounds.

1640
01:10:36,236 --> 01:10:37,772
You just keep
talking to the girls.

1641
01:10:37,872 --> 01:10:39,406
John really wanted
him in the band.

1642
01:10:39,507 --> 01:10:41,843
Me and Steve were, oh okay,
let's see how this goes.

1643
01:10:41,943 --> 01:10:44,512
He looked great, don't get me
wrong. He looked fantastic.

1644
01:10:44,612 --> 01:10:46,413
Yeah, he was a face around town

1645
01:10:46,514 --> 01:10:49,050
and when he first joined
the band, it was great.

1646
01:10:49,150 --> 01:10:51,619
He was really willing to
learn and learn the numbers

1647
01:10:51,719 --> 01:10:54,222
and play and learn the bass.

1648
01:10:54,321 --> 01:10:55,355
The only thing
missing with Sid

1649
01:10:55,455 --> 01:10:58,159
was fucking notes on the neck.

1650
01:10:58,258 --> 01:11:01,261
You know pieces of
tape, this is a C.

1651
01:11:01,361 --> 01:11:04,065
This is a G, you know.

1652
01:11:04,165 --> 01:11:05,432
This is poor schmuck
fucking got thrown

1653
01:11:05,533 --> 01:11:06,701
into the fucking circus.

1654
01:11:08,368 --> 01:11:11,438
He never contributed
to any of the songwriting

1655
01:11:11,539 --> 01:11:13,007
or any of the recording.

1656
01:11:15,243 --> 01:11:17,111
What more can I say?

1657
01:11:17,211 --> 01:11:19,847
Even Sid himself would've
said, I'm not really a musician.

1658
01:11:19,947 --> 01:11:21,314
We all knew why he was there.

1659
01:11:21,414 --> 01:11:24,051
He was the poster boy
for the punk movement.

1660
01:11:24,152 --> 01:11:25,452
Went and picked
up my equipment

1661
01:11:25,553 --> 01:11:27,855
from our Denmark Street place

1662
01:11:27,955 --> 01:11:30,691
and then a couple of days
later I'm down at the Roxy Club

1663
01:11:30,792 --> 01:11:32,459
and then somebody
said, "John's here."

1664
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:33,828
And I thought, oh, all right.

1665
01:11:33,928 --> 01:11:35,696
And I went out and I
was going to the loo

1666
01:11:35,797 --> 01:11:37,231
and he was there with Sid

1667
01:11:37,330 --> 01:11:40,268
and John's going like
that to Sid egging him on

1668
01:11:40,367 --> 01:11:42,435
and Sid follows me into the loo

1669
01:11:42,537 --> 01:11:44,672
and he said, "I'm the bass
player in the Sex Pistols now."

1670
01:11:44,772 --> 01:11:46,841
I said, "Yeah, I know."
I said, "Good for you."

1671
01:11:46,941 --> 01:11:48,643
He said, "What do you mean?"

1672
01:11:48,743 --> 01:11:50,845
He wanted to fight and John's
sort of egging him on, right.

1673
01:11:50,945 --> 01:11:52,445
But he's outside in the hallway
and me and Sid are in there.

1674
01:11:53,781 --> 01:11:55,116
I said, "I'll tell
you what, Sid,

1675
01:11:55,216 --> 01:11:56,117
I'll give you some bass
lessons if you like."

1676
01:11:56,217 --> 01:11:57,218
And he went, "Really?"

1677
01:11:57,317 --> 01:11:58,219
I said, "Yeah."

1678
01:11:58,318 --> 01:12:00,021
He said, "Aren't you annoyed?"

1679
01:12:00,121 --> 01:12:02,355
I said, "No, if they want you
in, that's the way it'll be."

1680
01:12:02,455 --> 01:12:05,425
And John's outside waiting
for the sound of fisticuffs.

1681
01:12:05,526 --> 01:12:06,594
And me and Sid sort of come out,

1682
01:12:06,694 --> 01:12:08,095
practically
arm in arm, laughing.

1683
01:12:08,196 --> 01:12:09,063
And John was like.

1684
01:12:11,299 --> 01:12:13,301
Pardon me.

1685
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:14,735
So what did you do

1686
01:12:14,836 --> 01:12:16,503
now that you've lost
your record contract?

1687
01:12:16,604 --> 01:12:18,806
You're still recording
though, aren't you?

1688
01:12:18,906 --> 01:12:21,876
-Yeah.
-What's your next single?

1689
01:12:22,409 --> 01:12:23,678
Uh.

1690
01:12:24,245 --> 01:12:26,948
<i>♪ And there is no reason why ♪</i>

1691
01:12:27,048 --> 01:12:28,448
<i>♪ EMI ♪</i>

1692
01:12:28,549 --> 01:12:30,117
And you were
signed up then with AandM?

1693
01:12:30,218 --> 01:12:32,385
Yeah for the week.

1694
01:12:32,485 --> 01:12:34,722
We walked into AandM Records.

1695
01:12:34,822 --> 01:12:37,325
Sid collapsed in the
marketing director's chair.

1696
01:12:37,424 --> 01:12:38,826
He was completely gone.

1697
01:12:38,926 --> 01:12:41,394
He drunk two bottles of
vodka from 10:00 AM to three.

1698
01:12:42,630 --> 01:12:45,132
It was like this wasn't a group

1699
01:12:45,233 --> 01:12:47,434
that had entered this building.

1700
01:12:47,535 --> 01:12:49,904
What had entered was
this fabulous disaster.

1701
01:12:50,004 --> 01:12:51,172
A couple of weeks later on,

1702
01:12:51,272 --> 01:12:52,506
Malcolm called me
up and he said,

1703
01:12:52,607 --> 01:12:53,741
"Look, you know, I
thought about it.

1704
01:12:53,841 --> 01:12:55,343
It's really not
working out with Sid.

1705
01:12:55,442 --> 01:12:58,980
I want you to come back
and kick down the doors

1706
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:02,382
and be the Sex Pistol
bass player again."

1707
01:13:02,482 --> 01:13:04,218
I said, "Well, I could
do that, Malcolm.

1708
01:13:04,318 --> 01:13:05,586
But you sent that
telegram to NME

1709
01:13:05,686 --> 01:13:07,655
saying I was sacked
for liking the Beatles.

1710
01:13:07,755 --> 01:13:10,291
And I think it's pretty
shitty, really. So fuck you."

1711
01:13:19,166 --> 01:13:22,670
<i>The summer of</i>
<i>'77, the summer of the Jubilee,</i>

1712
01:13:22,770 --> 01:13:24,672
<i>a time when the nation united</i>

1713
01:13:24,772 --> 01:13:28,042
<i>in spontaneous</i>
<i>gestures of patriotism.</i>

1714
01:13:28,142 --> 01:13:31,812
<i>A time when the then top 20</i>
<i>record charts were dominated</i>

1715
01:13:31,913 --> 01:13:34,282
<i>by this original version</i>
<i>of the National anthem</i>

1716
01:13:34,382 --> 01:13:36,651
<i>by the Sex Pistols.</i>

1717
01:13:36,751 --> 01:13:39,587
<i>♪ God save the Queen ♪</i>

1718
01:13:39,687 --> 01:13:42,823
<i>♪ The fascist regime ♪</i>

1719
01:13:42,924 --> 01:13:46,093
<i>♪ They made you a moron ♪</i>

1720
01:13:46,193 --> 01:13:49,196
<i>♪ A potential H-bomb ♪</i>

1721
01:13:49,297 --> 01:13:51,232
We didn't write the song

1722
01:13:51,332 --> 01:13:52,934
to coincide with
the Jubilee at all.

1723
01:13:53,034 --> 01:13:55,770
We wrote that song I think
a year before, near enough,

1724
01:13:55,870 --> 01:13:57,805
it just came out at that time.

1725
01:13:57,905 --> 01:13:59,640
<i>Her Majesty</i>
<i>and Prince Philip</i>

1726
01:13:59,740 --> 01:14:01,509
<i>to the thunderous cheers</i>
<i>of hundreds of thousands</i>

1727
01:14:01,609 --> 01:14:03,945
<i>of her subjects</i>
<i>lining the route.</i>

1728
01:14:07,381 --> 01:14:08,416
They can't play on the land

1729
01:14:08,516 --> 01:14:10,051
and you can't hear
them in the air.

1730
01:14:10,151 --> 01:14:12,053
So let's put on a bloody boat.

1731
01:14:12,153 --> 01:14:13,220
It's insane,

1732
01:14:13,321 --> 01:14:15,089
the whole thing.
-And let's follow

1733
01:14:15,189 --> 01:14:16,524
the Queen's flotilla.

1734
01:14:18,192 --> 01:14:20,528
<i>♪ We mean it, man ♪</i>

1735
01:14:20,628 --> 01:14:22,964
When the Sex Pistols
went after the Queen,

1736
01:14:23,064 --> 01:14:24,966
I mean it just wasn't done.

1737
01:14:25,066 --> 01:14:29,136
"God Save the Queen" and played
it at the Queen's Jubilee.

1738
01:14:29,236 --> 01:14:32,907
No, no one has ever
done anything that ballsy.

1739
01:14:34,241 --> 01:14:35,475
That actually came out
after I'd left the band,

1740
01:14:35,576 --> 01:14:37,878
the song was written
and we were playing it,

1741
01:14:37,979 --> 01:14:40,081
but originally it was
called "No Future".

1742
01:14:40,181 --> 01:14:43,351
And to me, although the
first line of the song

1743
01:14:43,451 --> 01:14:46,687
is God save the Queen, the
main thing to me is no future.

1744
01:14:46,787 --> 01:14:48,356
There's no future. Not
that's a good thing.

1745
01:14:48,456 --> 01:14:49,924
But there's no
future unless you try

1746
01:14:50,024 --> 01:14:52,560
and do something
about it for yourself,

1747
01:14:52,660 --> 01:14:54,328
which is what we
were trying to do.

1748
01:14:56,230 --> 01:14:59,166
We didn't realize how much
we were gonna shake things up,

1749
01:15:00,601 --> 01:15:02,136
Questions in the houses
of the Parliament

1750
01:15:02,236 --> 01:15:03,337
and stuff like that going on.

1751
01:15:03,437 --> 01:15:04,839
You know it was crazy.

1752
01:15:04,939 --> 01:15:07,174
But we had a lot of support
throughout the country.

1753
01:15:07,274 --> 01:15:08,776
<i>The Sex</i>
<i>Pistols current record,</i>

1754
01:15:08,876 --> 01:15:10,344
<i>"God Save the Queen",</i>
<i>is at number one</i>

1755
01:15:10,444 --> 01:15:12,380
<i>in the Capital headline today.</i>

1756
01:15:12,480 --> 01:15:15,549
<i>But the IBA, which administers</i>
<i>the Broadcasting Act,</i>

1757
01:15:15,649 --> 01:15:18,419
<i>has advised us this that,</i>
<i>particularly at this time,</i>

1758
01:15:18,519 --> 01:15:21,822
<i>this record is likely</i>
<i>to cause offense</i>
<i>to a number of our listeners</i>

1759
01:15:21,922 --> 01:15:25,693
<i>and have asked us not to play</i>
<i>it in our normal programming.</i>

1760
01:15:25,793 --> 01:15:27,561
Not only would they
not play it on the BBC,

1761
01:15:27,661 --> 01:15:29,797
but they wouldn't even
print the name in the chart.

1762
01:15:29,897 --> 01:15:33,334
Going into Woolworths they
had the Top 10 on a pegboard

1763
01:15:33,434 --> 01:15:35,069
and then the number
one was blank.

1764
01:15:36,771 --> 01:15:39,340
When you're that passionate
about what you're doing,

1765
01:15:39,440 --> 01:15:42,777
that you're willing
to step over the edge

1766
01:15:42,877 --> 01:15:45,746
and confront the
world around you,

1767
01:15:45,846 --> 01:15:48,916
you will generate an
equally strong reaction

1768
01:15:49,016 --> 01:15:51,018
in the opposite direction.

1769
01:15:51,118 --> 01:15:52,787
Are
you anti-royalist?

1770
01:15:52,887 --> 01:15:54,455
We are.

1771
01:15:54,555 --> 01:15:56,557
I've never met the
Queen in my life,

1772
01:15:56,657 --> 01:16:00,327
so why should I wanna know
her?

1773
01:16:01,762 --> 01:16:03,297
I mean do
you think well, let's go

1774
01:16:03,397 --> 01:16:04,799
We don't bother about her.
We don't bother about her.

1775
01:16:04,899 --> 01:16:06,734
We just don't care
about the Queen.

1776
01:16:06,834 --> 01:16:09,103
I mean she don't give a
fuck about us, does she?

1777
01:16:10,771 --> 01:16:12,473
It was great that we knew
we were doing something

1778
01:16:12,573 --> 01:16:14,909
culturally significant
and fantastic,

1779
01:16:15,009 --> 01:16:16,577
but it was also very scary

1780
01:16:16,677 --> 01:16:19,213
that we knew people
were out to harm us.

1781
01:16:19,313 --> 01:16:20,915
So we had to get out
the country at one time.

1782
01:16:21,015 --> 01:16:25,019
<i>♪ No future for you ♪</i>

1783
01:16:25,119 --> 01:16:26,387
<i>♪ No future ♪</i>

1784
01:16:26,487 --> 01:16:28,255
Well, then
they went to the States.

1785
01:16:28,355 --> 01:16:29,056
<i>♪ For you ♪</i>

1786
01:16:32,326 --> 01:16:34,228
<i>Hey, Johnny!</i>

1787
01:16:36,163 --> 01:16:38,966
And in the meantime,
I'd already started

1788
01:16:39,066 --> 01:16:42,103
taking some steps to talk to
other musicians like Steve New.

1789
01:16:42,203 --> 01:16:44,872
And I met this guy Rusty
Egan, he was a drummer,

1790
01:16:44,972 --> 01:16:48,209
and I'd already been writing
a couple of song ideas.

1791
01:16:48,309 --> 01:16:51,879
As soon as we heard that
Glen had quit the band,

1792
01:16:51,979 --> 01:16:52,847
we were on the phone.

1793
01:16:54,648 --> 01:16:56,917
And he said, "As a friend
and a representative of EMI,

1794
01:16:57,017 --> 01:16:59,887
we see you as a main
tune-smith in the band.

1795
01:16:59,987 --> 01:17:02,189
We'd be more than interested
in anything you come up with."

1796
01:17:02,289 --> 01:17:03,592
And I thought,
well, fucking handy.

1797
01:17:03,691 --> 01:17:05,560
And when I was on the
lookout for a singer,

1798
01:17:05,659 --> 01:17:07,428
like everybody wanted to
sound like Johnny Rotten,

1799
01:17:07,529 --> 01:17:08,929
which was the last
thing I wanted.

1800
01:17:09,029 --> 01:17:10,532
Rich Kids.

1801
01:17:10,631 --> 01:17:12,700
There's Glen Matlock,
formerly with the Sex Pistols

1802
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:14,468
and Midge Ure, who's
with a Scottish

1803
01:17:14,569 --> 01:17:17,171
teeny-bop group called Slik.

1804
01:17:17,271 --> 01:17:18,139
<i>♪ Now you can see ♪</i>

1805
01:17:18,239 --> 01:17:19,508
<i>♪ Now you can feel ♪</i>

1806
01:17:19,608 --> 01:17:21,909
<i>♪ Now you can tell</i>
<i>that it was you ♪</i>

1807
01:17:22,009 --> 01:17:23,744
This is a kid had played in

1808
01:17:23,844 --> 01:17:27,281
the ultimate teenybopper
group, boy band Slik.

1809
01:17:28,215 --> 01:17:29,917
To get him as the front

1810
01:17:30,017 --> 01:17:32,419
was another clever
stance from Glen.

1811
01:17:32,521 --> 01:17:34,722
Okay, this is
called "Rich Kids".

1812
01:17:41,596 --> 01:17:43,797
What I did want to
do with the Rich Kids

1813
01:17:43,898 --> 01:17:46,867
was not be a
second division Sex Pistol.

1814
01:17:46,967 --> 01:17:49,870
And that's why it kind of
came out a bit different.

1815
01:17:49,970 --> 01:17:52,406
<i>♪ I'm talkin' about rich kids ♪</i>

1816
01:17:52,507 --> 01:17:54,742
<i>♪ The guys too much for you ♪</i>

1817
01:17:54,842 --> 01:17:58,379
This is the band that were
the missing link between punk

1818
01:17:58,479 --> 01:17:59,747
and what we were about to do

1819
01:17:59,847 --> 01:18:01,949
in the '80s with
New Romanticism.

1820
01:18:02,049 --> 01:18:03,784
They bridged that gap

1821
01:18:03,884 --> 01:18:05,520
and that was a
massive inspiration.

1822
01:18:07,721 --> 01:18:09,089
What
do you think it will be

1823
01:18:09,190 --> 01:18:13,727
sort of a new wave kind
of words and angry songs?

1824
01:18:14,629 --> 01:18:16,163
No, I mean I'm not that
kind of angry person.

1825
01:18:16,263 --> 01:18:17,364
That's one of the reasons

1826
01:18:17,464 --> 01:18:19,266
I'm no longer in
the Pistols anymore.

1827
01:18:19,366 --> 01:18:21,168
<i>♪ Oh, it's too much ♪</i>

1828
01:18:21,268 --> 01:18:22,537
<i>♪ To stop the rich ♪</i>

1829
01:18:22,637 --> 01:18:23,837
<i>♪ So true ♪</i>

1830
01:18:23,938 --> 01:18:25,206
Is there
a particular reason

1831
01:18:25,306 --> 01:18:26,641
why you're not playing
some of the larger,

1832
01:18:26,740 --> 01:18:27,841
you're not playing Los
Angeles or New York or?

1833
01:18:27,942 --> 01:18:29,410
There's a
very definite reason

1834
01:18:29,511 --> 01:18:32,046
and all those places that
says you'll be sellouts,

1835
01:18:32,146 --> 01:18:34,583
but like who plays down south?

1836
01:18:39,253 --> 01:18:41,722
Playing in the South,
that was a great idea.

1837
01:18:41,822 --> 01:18:45,560
Down there they had this
guy cutting himself on stage

1838
01:18:45,660 --> 01:18:47,428
with spiky hair and
not giving a fuck.

1839
01:18:48,929 --> 01:18:51,899
That was a spectacle. It
really was a spectacle.

1840
01:18:53,734 --> 01:18:56,937
The Pistols are
just out of sight.

1841
01:18:57,071 --> 01:18:58,640
I think they got a lot of balls.

1842
01:19:00,140 --> 01:19:03,110
Poo-poo, it isn't what
they sing. Get outta here!

1843
01:19:03,210 --> 01:19:04,512
What do
they sing? They sing.

1844
01:19:04,613 --> 01:19:05,446
Get outta here.

1845
01:19:05,547 --> 01:19:07,549
It was just getting crazy.

1846
01:19:07,649 --> 01:19:11,285
We had lunatics following us
around all over the place.

1847
01:19:11,385 --> 01:19:12,886
The police were on
the side of the stage

1848
01:19:12,987 --> 01:19:15,289
and the record
company were worried.

1849
01:19:15,389 --> 01:19:18,259
We had a security all around us.

1850
01:19:18,359 --> 01:19:19,527
It was getting horrible.

1851
01:19:21,061 --> 01:19:22,796
I thought someone was
gonna die on that tour.

1852
01:19:22,896 --> 01:19:26,100
They nearly did with Sid just
causing chaos everywhere.

1853
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:27,334
And the drug taking
and all that thing.

1854
01:19:27,434 --> 01:19:30,404
The band, it went
quickly downhill.

1855
01:19:30,504 --> 01:19:32,473
This is no fun.

1856
01:19:32,574 --> 01:19:35,510
No fun at all. No fun.

1857
01:19:36,176 --> 01:19:37,478
I said to the audience,

1858
01:19:37,579 --> 01:19:38,879
"Ever get the feeling
you've been cheated?"

1859
01:19:38,979 --> 01:19:41,248
And I meant it and I
still do to this day.

1860
01:19:41,348 --> 01:19:46,086
The whole thing went
sour. So we split.

1861
01:19:47,855 --> 01:19:51,091
Ever get the feeling you've
been cheated. Good night.

1862
01:19:51,191 --> 01:19:52,661
It was getting
dark and horrible

1863
01:19:52,761 --> 01:19:55,129
and, to be honest, I was
glad when it was over

1864
01:19:55,229 --> 01:19:57,097
at the end of that
American tour.

1865
01:19:57,197 --> 01:19:59,066
I was relieved too.

1866
01:19:59,166 --> 01:20:02,069
You know, I'd had enough.
That's the way it was.

1867
01:20:02,169 --> 01:20:03,504
That was the way
it was meant to be.

1868
01:20:06,541 --> 01:20:08,777
Sid was in the hospital.

1869
01:20:09,611 --> 01:20:13,447
It was a blizzard and I went
down to CGBGs that night

1870
01:20:13,548 --> 01:20:15,082
and there's Joe Stevens
with Johnny Rotten.

1871
01:20:15,182 --> 01:20:17,151
He asked me if I
had a cigarette.

1872
01:20:17,251 --> 01:20:18,052
I said, "Here, man, take it."

1873
01:20:18,152 --> 01:20:19,587
And he goes, "Oh."

1874
01:20:19,688 --> 01:20:21,322
He goes, "Is this a
token of your respect?"

1875
01:20:21,422 --> 01:20:23,023
And I said, "Well, no.

1876
01:20:23,123 --> 01:20:24,958
I actually feel bad for you
'cause you're out of work."

1877
01:20:25,059 --> 01:20:28,095
It was an icebreaker
right there, you know.

1878
01:20:28,195 --> 01:20:30,097
Do you keep in touch
with any of the people

1879
01:20:30,197 --> 01:20:31,398
that you've played with before?

1880
01:20:31,498 --> 01:20:33,067
Anybody in the band?

1881
01:20:33,167 --> 01:20:36,403
No. They never bothered to
ring me, so I won't ring them.

1882
01:20:36,503 --> 01:20:39,106
It was really
heavy at the time.

1883
01:20:39,206 --> 01:20:40,775
And yeah, I was glad.

1884
01:20:40,874 --> 01:20:43,444
I thought we were just gonna
split up for a few months,

1885
01:20:43,545 --> 01:20:45,079
maybe then get back together.

1886
01:20:45,179 --> 01:20:48,148
But it never worked
out like that.

1887
01:20:48,248 --> 01:20:50,884
Then Sid came back to London
with tail between his legs.

1888
01:20:52,219 --> 01:20:53,722
Then he had a big drug problem.

1889
01:20:53,822 --> 01:20:56,591
But he moved into Maida
Vale a borough in London

1890
01:20:57,925 --> 01:21:00,562
and he was friends with
some of the same people

1891
01:21:00,662 --> 01:21:04,131
and then Nancy'd be around
and I saw him quite a lot.

1892
01:21:04,231 --> 01:21:05,399
I've been with Sid

1893
01:21:05,499 --> 01:21:08,001
ever since the first
day I got to England

1894
01:21:08,102 --> 01:21:09,838
and we're partners in crime.

1895
01:21:11,004 --> 01:21:13,006
We have good fun.

1896
01:21:13,107 --> 01:21:16,611
We wipe the shit off and
we help each other out.

1897
01:21:16,711 --> 01:21:17,978
Do remember once,

1898
01:21:18,078 --> 01:21:21,583
there was Nancy holding
her hand over a bowl.

1899
01:21:22,851 --> 01:21:24,786
She cut her wrist,
sort of cut her wrist,

1900
01:21:24,885 --> 01:21:25,953
eating an ice cream.

1901
01:21:26,053 --> 01:21:27,589
And I go, "Oh Nancy,
what you doing?"

1902
01:21:27,689 --> 01:21:29,456
She's going, "Well, Sid
don't love me anymore."

1903
01:21:29,557 --> 01:21:32,159
I said, "Oh, well never mind.
Do you want a cup of tea?"

1904
01:21:32,259 --> 01:21:33,160
And she'd be like,
"No, it's all right.

1905
01:21:33,260 --> 01:21:34,662
I was just eat the ice cream."

1906
01:21:34,763 --> 01:21:36,531
And it was all like
playacting kind of stuff.

1907
01:21:36,631 --> 01:21:37,965
I liked Nancy.

1908
01:21:38,065 --> 01:21:39,967
She was like one of
the handful of women

1909
01:21:40,067 --> 01:21:42,936
that were on the scene at CBGB.

1910
01:21:43,036 --> 01:21:44,572
You know we were all kids.

1911
01:21:44,672 --> 01:21:47,040
I got to know Nancy and
she sort of explained to me

1912
01:21:47,141 --> 01:21:51,412
that she had, had a rough
life, a rough home life.

1913
01:21:51,513 --> 01:21:52,781
I don't know if you
saw any of the gigs,

1914
01:21:52,881 --> 01:21:56,116
but Sid was like
really showing him out

1915
01:21:56,216 --> 01:21:58,218
and John was being like nothing.

1916
01:21:59,721 --> 01:22:00,655
What
was it that you thought

1917
01:22:00,755 --> 01:22:02,256
the Pistols were trying to do?

1918
01:22:02,356 --> 01:22:04,526
Was it just like kick the
establishment up the ass?

1919
01:22:06,026 --> 01:22:07,662
Sid?

1920
01:22:09,296 --> 01:22:11,566
And we were sitting in
the pub one night together

1921
01:22:11,666 --> 01:22:12,901
and he's going, "The
thing is, Glen,"

1922
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:15,603
he said, "people seem
to think we're enemies,

1923
01:22:15,703 --> 01:22:18,071
but here we are sitting
having a drink together."

1924
01:22:18,172 --> 01:22:20,040
And I said, "Yeah, it's
kind of funny that."

1925
01:22:20,140 --> 01:22:21,843
He said, "Can't we do
something about it?

1926
01:22:21,942 --> 01:22:24,278
Well, you know, to prove
that we're not enemies."

1927
01:22:24,378 --> 01:22:26,046
I said, "Well I'll
tell you what,

1928
01:22:26,146 --> 01:22:28,583
maybe we could do a
little gig for a laugh."

1929
01:22:28,683 --> 01:22:32,252
He went, "Oh, really?
Who would we get?"

1930
01:22:32,352 --> 01:22:33,287
I said, "Well I'll
tell you what,

1931
01:22:33,387 --> 01:22:35,022
why don't we get Steve New,

1932
01:22:35,122 --> 01:22:37,991
who's my guitarist
in the Rich Kids band

1933
01:22:38,091 --> 01:22:40,060
and maybe Rat Scabies."

1934
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:41,395
He said, "Who's
gonna play bass?"

1935
01:22:41,495 --> 01:22:42,831
I said, "Well, I'll
play bass. You sing."

1936
01:22:42,931 --> 01:22:44,498
"Oh, oh, all right."

1937
01:22:44,599 --> 01:22:46,133
This was like on a Monday

1938
01:22:46,233 --> 01:22:47,769
and we was playing
the Electric Ballroom

1939
01:22:47,869 --> 01:22:50,037
the following
Friday or Saturday.

1940
01:22:50,137 --> 01:22:52,707
Sid Vicious, I was
in the Rich Kids

1941
01:22:52,807 --> 01:22:54,441
and Rat was in the White Cats.

1942
01:22:54,542 --> 01:22:57,612
Vicious White Kids,
boom, and it sold out.

1943
01:22:57,712 --> 01:23:00,380
<i>This one's dedicated</i>
<i>to my honey, Nancy.</i>

1944
01:23:06,286 --> 01:23:07,522
There was loads
of people at the gig.

1945
01:23:07,622 --> 01:23:09,323
I remember Thin Lizzy came down

1946
01:23:09,423 --> 01:23:12,125
and I think that's where I met
Blondie for the first time.

1947
01:23:12,226 --> 01:23:16,330
Joan Jett and I went together
and Marc Bolan was there.

1948
01:23:16,430 --> 01:23:19,266
<i>♪ But the mystic just</i>
<i>brought me tears ♪</i>

1949
01:23:19,366 --> 01:23:20,702
They had no material

1950
01:23:20,802 --> 01:23:23,370
and they did "I Wanna be
Your Dog" three times.

1951
01:23:23,470 --> 01:23:25,707
Kept getting encores and we
didn't have any more songs.

1952
01:23:25,807 --> 01:23:28,843
So we did the same set of
about 10 songs three times.

1953
01:23:30,377 --> 01:23:32,112
I mean, what happened
after that gig,

1954
01:23:32,212 --> 01:23:34,314
Sid was gonna go to America

1955
01:23:34,414 --> 01:23:36,518
and we didn't do too
bad after the gig

1956
01:23:36,618 --> 01:23:39,319
and then in a kind of
drunken moment of largess,

1957
01:23:39,419 --> 01:23:41,756
I said, "Let's just give
Sid the money for the gig."

1958
01:23:41,856 --> 01:23:44,157
And a couple of days
later he went to America.

1959
01:23:45,927 --> 01:23:49,664
The thing was, I didn't realize
that he was always skint.

1960
01:23:49,764 --> 01:23:50,932
He didn't have any money

1961
01:23:51,031 --> 01:23:53,166
and I didn't realize
how bad he'd become

1962
01:23:53,267 --> 01:23:54,903
and Malcolm wasn't
giving him any money.

1963
01:23:55,003 --> 01:23:57,070
So him and Nancy's in their own.

1964
01:23:57,170 --> 01:23:58,138
I didn't know that.

1965
01:23:59,874 --> 01:24:02,877
I've given him several grand
of money to go to America.

1966
01:24:02,977 --> 01:24:05,345
He turns up in New York, loaded.

1967
01:24:06,413 --> 01:24:11,418
Sid, damn you! Fuck.

1968
01:24:12,687 --> 01:24:13,855
So I don't know

1969
01:24:13,955 --> 01:24:15,723
if I didn't help somehow
in some small way,

1970
01:24:17,291 --> 01:24:19,594
help him with his
demise, undeliberately.

1971
01:24:21,829 --> 01:24:23,497
<i>Tonight</i>
<i>Vicious is in real trouble.</i>

1972
01:24:23,598 --> 01:24:25,065
<i>Charged with the murder</i>
<i>of his girlfriend</i>

1973
01:24:25,165 --> 01:24:27,001
<i>at Manhattan's Chelsea Hotel.</i>

1974
01:24:27,100 --> 01:24:28,836
<i>Vicious, whose real</i>
<i>name is John Ritchie,</i>

1975
01:24:28,937 --> 01:24:31,305
<i>had lived at the Chelsea with</i>
<i>20 year old Nancy Spungen</i>

1976
01:24:31,405 --> 01:24:32,941
<i>for about three weeks.</i>

1977
01:24:33,041 --> 01:24:34,542
<i>This morning, Vicious</i>
<i>called an ambulance</i>

1978
01:24:34,642 --> 01:24:36,611
<i>to the West 23rd Street Hotel.</i>

1979
01:24:36,711 --> 01:24:38,813
<i>When it arrived, Ms.</i>
<i>Spungen was already dead</i>

1980
01:24:38,913 --> 01:24:40,447
<i>of the stab wound</i>
<i>in the stomach.</i>

1981
01:24:44,251 --> 01:24:45,787
Really sweet enough guy.

1982
01:24:45,887 --> 01:24:46,988
I mean I didn't
really get to know him

1983
01:24:47,087 --> 01:24:47,989
until after fucking
Nancy was dead.

1984
01:24:48,088 --> 01:24:49,791
He just got out of jail.

1985
01:24:49,891 --> 01:24:51,793
He was actually sober
and you could talk to him

1986
01:24:53,160 --> 01:24:55,195
and he was a very sad character.

1987
01:24:55,295 --> 01:24:58,766
I mean he was, you know I
asked him flat out one time,

1988
01:24:58,866 --> 01:24:59,734
"Did you do it?"

1989
01:24:59,834 --> 01:25:01,536
And he goes, "I don't know."

1990
01:25:03,403 --> 01:25:05,740
And what do
you think made it happen?

1991
01:25:10,344 --> 01:25:12,680
It was meant to happen.

1992
01:25:12,780 --> 01:25:14,882
Nancy always said she
die before she was 21.

1993
01:25:18,753 --> 01:25:20,888
Sid Vicious will not
have to stand trial

1994
01:25:20,989 --> 01:25:24,058
for the murder of a girlfriend
at the Chelsea Hotel.

1995
01:25:24,157 --> 01:25:26,527
Sid is no longer
vicious. He's dead.

1996
01:25:26,628 --> 01:25:28,930
His nude body found in a
Greenwich Village apartment.

1997
01:25:29,030 --> 01:25:30,832
spoon and syringe nearby.

1998
01:25:30,932 --> 01:25:33,034
<i>The ex Sex</i>
<i>Pistol was described</i>

1999
01:25:33,133 --> 01:25:35,536
<i>as happy about prospects</i>
<i>for a bright future</i>

2000
01:25:35,637 --> 01:25:38,238
<i>when he came here to</i>
<i>63 Bank last night.</i>

2001
01:25:40,008 --> 01:25:42,242
You just have to accept it.

2002
01:25:42,342 --> 01:25:46,179
I could no more save him
than I could've killed him.

2003
01:25:48,348 --> 01:25:50,885
Were you
close to him at that time?

2004
01:25:50,985 --> 01:25:52,319
He was my best mate.

2005
01:25:54,122 --> 01:25:56,057
All I can say is
that we really tried,

2006
01:25:56,156 --> 01:25:58,760
everybody tried to talk
to him, Steve and Paul.

2007
01:25:58,860 --> 01:26:00,160
Do you
feel if he'd never met you,

2008
01:26:00,260 --> 01:26:01,629
he might be alive today?

2009
01:26:06,634 --> 01:26:07,802
I don't know.

2010
01:26:24,652 --> 01:26:27,021
First person I see up
here is Joe Strummer,

2011
01:26:27,121 --> 01:26:29,489
who was a friend of mine.

2012
01:26:29,590 --> 01:26:32,093
I remember Joe wearing this.

2013
01:26:32,192 --> 01:26:34,562
Generation X, there's
Tony James there

2014
01:26:34,662 --> 01:26:37,732
who used to knock
around with Mick Jones.

2015
01:26:37,832 --> 01:26:39,901
Scabies there, up there.

2016
01:26:40,001 --> 01:26:42,737
Very good drummer, but
he's a bit impulsive.

2017
01:26:42,837 --> 01:26:45,807
About a few years ago I
was having a jam with him

2018
01:26:45,907 --> 01:26:47,407
and was playing
away and he did this

2019
01:26:47,508 --> 01:26:49,711
fantastic big drum
thing, all that,

2020
01:26:49,811 --> 01:26:52,947
that ended like one and a
half beats into the next bar,

2021
01:26:53,047 --> 01:26:53,815
which it shouldn't have done.

2022
01:26:53,915 --> 01:26:54,949
It just all fell apart.

2023
01:26:55,049 --> 01:26:56,150
We was only rehearsing

2024
01:26:56,249 --> 01:26:58,953
and it all broke
down and I went wrap.

2025
01:26:59,053 --> 01:27:00,655
And he said, "Glen, I hate it

2026
01:27:00,755 --> 01:27:03,191
when you can't follow me
when I go wrong like that."

2027
01:27:04,592 --> 01:27:06,027
So there's kind of quite
a lot of connections

2028
01:27:06,127 --> 01:27:09,097
in this room for me.

2029
01:27:10,064 --> 01:27:11,632
But the only thing is

2030
01:27:11,733 --> 01:27:14,434
they got pictures of
Pistols without me in it.

2031
01:27:14,535 --> 01:27:16,204
So I'm gonna have to
address that issue

2032
01:27:16,303 --> 01:27:17,370
when I go back to England.

2033
01:27:19,372 --> 01:27:20,675
It's funny how the media

2034
01:27:20,775 --> 01:27:22,476
gave us that illusion
about the Sex Pistols,

2035
01:27:22,577 --> 01:27:24,112
that it was all Sid
when it wasn't all Sid,

2036
01:27:24,212 --> 01:27:25,179
it was Glen Matlock.

2037
01:27:31,119 --> 01:27:33,154
<i>It's kind of funny, I don't</i>
<i>get up in the morning thinking</i>

2038
01:27:33,253 --> 01:27:35,422
<i>I used to be on a Sex Pistols.</i>

2039
01:27:35,523 --> 01:27:37,390
<i>But everything I've</i>
<i>done over my life,</i>

2040
01:27:37,491 --> 01:27:42,063
<i>I've never been allowed to</i>
<i>forget about the Sex Pistols.</i>

2041
01:27:43,531 --> 01:27:45,298
<i>But all I've ever</i>
<i>really wanted to do,</i>

2042
01:27:45,398 --> 01:27:47,101
and maybe that was
one of the reasons

2043
01:27:47,201 --> 01:27:48,536
I fell out for the other guys,

2044
01:27:48,636 --> 01:27:51,906
you know Malcolm, was
be a working musician.

2045
01:27:52,006 --> 01:27:53,674
And you know what?

2046
01:27:53,775 --> 01:27:56,144
I'm 67 now and
I've managed that.

2047
01:27:58,913 --> 01:28:02,315
After the Pistols, I
got a gig with Iggy Pop.

2048
01:28:02,415 --> 01:28:04,886
I'm on tour with Iggy Pop
around Europe and America

2049
01:28:04,986 --> 01:28:07,088
and I played in his
"Soldier" album.

2050
01:28:07,188 --> 01:28:09,524
With the Rich Kids
it was fantastic.

2051
01:28:09,624 --> 01:28:11,058
I got to work with Mick Ronson,

2052
01:28:11,159 --> 01:28:13,694
he produced the album and
I became mates with him

2053
01:28:13,795 --> 01:28:15,563
and he asked me to
do other projects.

2054
01:28:15,663 --> 01:28:16,898
There's people that
have influenced me

2055
01:28:16,998 --> 01:28:18,566
I got to work with.

2056
01:28:18,666 --> 01:28:20,868
Johnny Thunders, I actually
did a tour of Japan

2057
01:28:20,968 --> 01:28:22,335
and Australia with Johnny.

2058
01:28:27,575 --> 01:28:29,177
Look at the stuff
he's done since.

2059
01:28:30,443 --> 01:28:32,479
He played with
the fucking Faces.

2060
01:28:32,580 --> 01:28:34,447
The band that I used to
stand in front of the mirror

2061
01:28:34,549 --> 01:28:36,884
when I was 14 pretending
I was in them,

2062
01:28:36,984 --> 01:28:39,253
we headlined the Fuji
Festival in Japan;

2063
01:28:39,352 --> 01:28:42,723
you know Ronnie Wood and
Kenney Jones and Ian McLagan.

2064
01:28:42,824 --> 01:28:45,458
If someone said to me,
I can see into the future

2065
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:48,395
and later on down the
line you're gonna get

2066
01:28:48,495 --> 01:28:50,031
one of the Sex Pistols
playing with me,

2067
01:28:50,131 --> 01:28:51,799
I would go, "Go away.

2068
01:28:52,967 --> 01:28:54,268
Don't be silly."

2069
01:28:54,367 --> 01:28:57,504
But sure enough he did.

2070
01:28:57,605 --> 01:29:00,775
Then I got a phone call
a year and a half ago

2071
01:29:00,875 --> 01:29:04,579
from Clem Burke, Blondie
was short of a bass player,
would I go and help him out?

2072
01:29:04,679 --> 01:29:06,013
And I said, "When, late in
the summer or something?"

2073
01:29:06,113 --> 01:29:07,715
He said, "No, on Tuesday."

2074
01:29:07,815 --> 01:29:09,517
I was like, oh,.

2075
01:29:10,852 --> 01:29:11,986
I knew Glen would
be perfect for it.

2076
01:29:12,086 --> 01:29:13,554
And we did this
arena tour with Glen

2077
01:29:13,654 --> 01:29:15,156
and it's just carried
on since then.

2078
01:29:15,256 --> 01:29:16,324
It's been great.

2079
01:29:18,226 --> 01:29:20,695
Oh, my god.

2080
01:29:21,996 --> 01:29:23,097
Yeah, you know Glen is great.

2081
01:29:23,197 --> 01:29:24,966
Yes, he's a sweetheart.

2082
01:29:29,537 --> 01:29:32,607
<i>♪ Call me, call</i>
<i>me, on the line ♪</i>

2083
01:29:32,707 --> 01:29:36,344
<i>♪ Call me, call me</i>
<i>any day or night ♪</i>

2084
01:29:36,443 --> 01:29:39,347
<i>♪ Call me, I'll arrive ♪</i>

2085
01:29:39,446 --> 01:29:43,985
<i>♪ When you're ready</i>
<i>for your sweet design ♪</i>

2086
01:29:46,020 --> 01:29:47,555
In my experience,
there's some people

2087
01:29:47,655 --> 01:29:52,392
that were born to be
in rock and that's it.

2088
01:29:53,493 --> 01:29:54,829
It's just, you know who you are.

2089
01:29:54,929 --> 01:29:57,765
And I think that applies to him.

2090
01:29:57,865 --> 01:30:02,536
<i>♪ Designer sheets,</i>
<i>I'll never get enough ♪</i>

2091
01:30:03,905 --> 01:30:05,006
That's one of the
things I like about Glen,

2092
01:30:05,106 --> 01:30:07,208
that it's not past glories.

2093
01:30:07,308 --> 01:30:10,344
I think his current work
is his strongest ever.

2094
01:30:10,443 --> 01:30:12,346
Really With his
finger on the pulse

2095
01:30:12,445 --> 01:30:15,549
of what's going on
politically in the country

2096
01:30:15,650 --> 01:30:17,385
and the world and
he's writing about it.

2097
01:30:18,686 --> 01:30:21,756
<i>♪ Until there's</i>
<i>someone, oh yeah ♪</i>

2098
01:30:21,856 --> 01:30:25,960
People always say the
Pistols was like a sea change.

2099
01:30:26,060 --> 01:30:28,963
Maybe it was in a way,
but I dispute that.

2100
01:30:29,063 --> 01:30:31,766
I think music's
like a baton race.

2101
01:30:31,866 --> 01:30:34,769
You know the people from
before you that you dig,

2102
01:30:34,869 --> 01:30:38,272
you take the baton off of
them and you do your bit

2103
01:30:38,372 --> 01:30:42,643
and then you pass the baton
on for the next lot of people.

2104
01:30:42,743 --> 01:30:47,181
You know here's this man Glen
Matlock who changed my life.

2105
01:30:47,281 --> 01:30:49,150
Yeah, I put seeing
the Sex Pistols

2106
01:30:49,250 --> 01:30:53,054
in the same bracket
as Paul meeting John.

2107
01:31:00,061 --> 01:31:03,798
Glen leaving
sadly did take away

2108
01:31:03,898 --> 01:31:08,936
that marvelous accidental
synergy that they had

2109
01:31:09,203 --> 01:31:12,406
and they couldn't really
seriously recover from it.

2110
01:31:13,941 --> 01:31:16,944
<i>What a damn good band</i>
<i>we were, to be quite frank,</i>

2111
01:31:17,044 --> 01:31:20,314
<i>and how right it was that</i>
<i>we ended when we did.</i>

2112
01:31:21,615 --> 01:31:23,483
You know I'm
proud of the songs

2113
01:31:23,584 --> 01:31:26,354
and every time you hear a Sex
Pistols record on the radio,

2114
01:31:26,454 --> 01:31:28,022
especially the
first three singles,

2115
01:31:28,122 --> 01:31:30,725
you might be listening to
Johnny Rotten and Steve Jones

2116
01:31:30,825 --> 01:31:34,395
and Paul Cook, but you're also
listening to Glen Matlock,

2117
01:31:34,528 --> 01:31:38,933
He is a writer
and an idea maker.

2118
01:31:39,033 --> 01:31:40,634
I don't think we would
have the Sex Pistols

2119
01:31:40,735 --> 01:31:42,003
the same way that
that we knew them

2120
01:31:42,103 --> 01:31:44,105
without him being one
of the main ingredients.

2121
01:31:45,773 --> 01:31:48,909
It takes a- a lot of people
to make something great

2122
01:31:49,010 --> 01:31:52,913
and different opinions
and when they align,

2123
01:31:53,014 --> 01:31:54,682
that's when it's
something special.

2124
01:31:54,782 --> 01:31:58,686
And in the end of the Pistols,
they were very special.

2125
01:31:58,786 --> 01:32:00,554
And there's not a lot
of bands that can say

2126
01:32:00,654 --> 01:32:04,558
that they have one record
that impacted everything.

2127
01:32:04,658 --> 01:32:06,160
It's amazing with
that one album,

2128
01:32:06,260 --> 01:32:09,597
how they're spoken about in
the same breath as the Who

2129
01:32:09,697 --> 01:32:11,332
or even the Stones
or the Beatles

2130
01:32:11,432 --> 01:32:13,300
or all the great
rock and roll bands,

2131
01:32:13,401 --> 01:32:15,336
which they were one of.

2132
01:32:15,436 --> 01:32:16,737
They only had to
make one, really.

2133
01:32:16,837 --> 01:32:18,339
It's so good.

2134
01:32:18,439 --> 01:32:21,142
No one sounds anywhere
near that powerful.

2135
01:32:21,242 --> 01:32:23,544
<i>Never Mind the Bollocks</i> raised
the bar for everyone.

2136
01:32:23,644 --> 01:32:25,813
It's one of the most
classic records of all time.

2137
01:32:25,913 --> 01:32:29,583
Amazing, I mean I played
that to death when it came out.

2138
01:32:29,683 --> 01:32:31,552
That's their one
statement to the world.

2139
01:32:33,020 --> 01:32:35,189
And imagine getting
it so right once.

2140
01:32:36,624 --> 01:32:38,926
I made 10 albums
and in my own mind,

2141
01:32:39,026 --> 01:32:42,430
they don't match up to that
and I'm an arrogant bastard.

2142
01:32:45,232 --> 01:32:48,803
<i>♪ I mean it, man ♪</i>

2143
01:32:48,903 --> 01:32:51,872
<i>♪ We love our Queen, oh yeah ♪</i>

2144
01:32:51,972 --> 01:32:54,308
<i>♪ God saves ♪</i>

2145
01:32:54,408 --> 01:32:55,743
We have got
something in common

2146
01:32:55,843 --> 01:32:57,912
that only four people
in the wide world have

2147
01:32:58,012 --> 01:33:00,549
and it's like when we get in
the room, if we ever did again,

2148
01:33:00,648 --> 01:33:03,250
and we start playing
we're the Sex Pistols,

2149
01:33:03,350 --> 01:33:06,087
it wouldn't have happened
without all the elements,

2150
01:33:06,187 --> 01:33:07,621
which is mainly the band.

2151
01:33:07,721 --> 01:33:09,256
But it wouldn't have
happened without Malcolm.

2152
01:33:09,356 --> 01:33:10,925
It wouldn't have happened
without Vivienne.

2153
01:33:11,025 --> 01:33:13,260
It wouldn't have happened
without Jamie Reid's artwork.

2154
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:15,262
It wouldn't have happened
without Little Helen,

2155
01:33:15,362 --> 01:33:17,298
Helen of Troy whose
mates were Malcolm.

2156
01:33:18,699 --> 01:33:22,103
There's a power to the
music of the Pistols.

2157
01:33:22,203 --> 01:33:26,407
<i>♪ No future for you ♪</i>

2158
01:33:26,508 --> 01:33:30,478
<i>♪ No future, no future ♪</i>

2159
01:33:35,816 --> 01:33:39,588
Yeah, maybe we could've
made another album or two.

2160
01:33:39,687 --> 01:33:44,258
But you know bands tend
to do a ballad or so.

2161
01:33:44,358 --> 01:33:45,793
Something like the
Rolling Stones',

2162
01:33:45,893 --> 01:33:48,829
<i>♪ Angie, Angie ♪</i>

2163
01:33:48,929 --> 01:33:51,832
Can't Imagine Johnny Rotten
singing something like that.

2164
01:33:51,932 --> 01:33:52,933
<i>♪ Angie... ♪</i>

2165
01:33:55,469 --> 01:33:58,839
All right, that's
Glen Matlock on bass.

2166
01:34:03,644 --> 01:34:05,312
That's a good
place to end then.

2167
01:34:07,882 --> 01:34:11,285
<i>♪ There's no point in</i>
<i>asking, you'll get no reply ♪</i>

2168
01:34:11,385 --> 01:34:14,623
<i>♪ Oh just remember</i>
<i>I don't decide ♪</i>

2169
01:34:14,722 --> 01:34:18,826
<i>♪ I got no reason and</i>
<i>you'll get no reply ♪</i>

2170
01:34:18,926 --> 01:34:22,663
<i>♪ Sigh of friction, yeah ♪</i>

2171
01:34:22,763 --> 01:34:27,101
<i>♪ That's just fine ♪</i>

2172
01:34:27,201 --> 01:34:30,905
<i>♪ We're so pretty,</i>
<i>oh so pretty ♪</i>

2173
01:34:32,239 --> 01:34:33,642
<i>♪ We're vacant ♪</i>

2174
01:34:34,074 --> 01:34:38,812
<i>♪ We're so pretty,</i>
<i>oh so pretty ♪</i>

2175
01:34:39,548 --> 01:34:41,382
<i>♪ Vacant ♪</i>

2176
01:34:41,482 --> 01:34:44,653
<i>♪ Don't ask us to attend,</i>
<i>'cause we're not all there ♪</i>

2177
01:34:44,752 --> 01:34:48,155
<i>♪ Oh don't pretend</i>
<i>'cause we don't care ♪</i>

2178
01:34:48,255 --> 01:34:51,892
<i>♪ Got no reason,</i>
<i>it's all too much ♪</i>

2179
01:34:51,992 --> 01:34:56,297
<i>♪ Always find us ♪</i>

2180
01:34:56,397 --> 01:35:00,569
<i>♪ Out to lunch, out to lunch ♪</i>

2181
01:35:00,669 --> 01:35:05,439
<i>♪ We're so pretty,</i>
<i>oh so pretty ♪</i>

2182
01:35:06,173 --> 01:35:07,741
<i>♪ Vacant ♪</i>

2183
01:35:07,841 --> 01:35:12,614
<i>♪ We're so pretty,</i>
<i>oh so pretty ♪</i>

2184
01:35:13,380 --> 01:35:14,949
<i>♪ Vacant ♪</i>

2185
01:35:15,049 --> 01:35:19,820
<i>♪ We're so pretty,</i>
<i>oh so pretty ♪</i>

2186
01:35:20,589 --> 01:35:24,158
<i>♪ Vacant, yeah ♪</i>

2187
01:35:24,258 --> 01:35:29,263
<i>♪ And we don't care ♪</i>

2188
01:35:32,433 --> 01:35:37,905
<i>♪ We're so pretty,</i>
<i>pretty vacant ♪</i>

2189
01:35:38,005 --> 01:35:44,278
<i>♪ We don't care ♪</i>