1 00:00:06,859 --> 00:00:08,200 Previously on The Hack. 2 00:00:08,500 --> 00:00:11,680 Hacking phones at the news of the world has been endemic. 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,900 Endemic. They've hacked thousands. 4 00:00:14,180 --> 00:00:17,640 There is an industry making huge profit from evading people's private lives, and 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,520 Rupert Murdoch's bullying tabloids have explicitly encouraged it and are buying 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,680 it. Charlotte Harris, Nick Davis of The Guardian. I can't talk to you about 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,600 specific cases, but I can tell you there is so much more to come. 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:30,960 Show me what you have. 9 00:00:31,150 --> 00:00:35,510 Printout of an email proving a payment of £7 ,000 to Malcare, Prestorio and 10 00:00:35,510 --> 00:00:36,229 Gordon Taylor. 11 00:00:36,230 --> 00:00:39,590 And the police have access to all of this and more. In my opinion, what I've 12 00:00:39,590 --> 00:00:44,490 seen is a most careful investigation by very experienced detectives. And since 13 00:00:44,490 --> 00:00:48,350 no additional evidence has come to light, I can see no reason to reopen the 14 00:00:48,350 --> 00:00:51,330 inquiry. Keir Starmer's conducting a review. 15 00:00:51,550 --> 00:00:54,590 And now the CMS select committee want to see her surgically. 16 00:00:55,030 --> 00:00:56,310 Are you reading the statement? 17 00:00:56,770 --> 00:00:57,770 No. 18 00:00:59,150 --> 00:01:00,450 But I do have things to say. 19 00:01:07,980 --> 00:01:11,320 Welcome to your voicemail. You have three new messages. 20 00:01:11,660 --> 00:01:14,320 To listen to your messages, press one. 21 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:16,720 The bar here. 22 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:18,780 Just wondering when you're over. 23 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,480 Oh, uh, the kitchen tap seems to be fixed now. 24 00:01:23,100 --> 00:01:24,100 Which is good. 25 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,360 So, that... Message deleted. 26 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:27,920 Next message. 27 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:29,160 Make it certain. 28 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:33,380 Um, just to say I got a call from the bank today. They said it's in relation 29 00:01:33,380 --> 00:01:36,780 the remortgage, but... I felt like someone was fishing. 30 00:01:37,550 --> 00:01:38,550 Message deleted. 31 00:01:38,910 --> 00:01:39,950 Next message. 32 00:01:40,310 --> 00:01:45,270 Nick, we put together a legal response for Alan, but we need to speak to you 33 00:01:45,270 --> 00:01:46,330 about the selector, Nick. 34 00:01:57,510 --> 00:01:58,510 Don't you dare. 35 00:02:01,810 --> 00:02:03,050 Has Alan rung again? 36 00:02:03,810 --> 00:02:04,810 Possibly. 37 00:02:05,290 --> 00:02:06,290 Possibly? 38 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:11,300 Could be the school telling me my son's broken his leg. 39 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:13,560 Or Rebecca Brooks declaring surrender. 40 00:02:14,620 --> 00:02:18,820 Or it could be Alan asking where I am and whether David Lee is with me. I 41 00:02:18,820 --> 00:02:20,460 answer. I don't want to lie to him. 42 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,520 Perhaps a little voicemail. 43 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:25,160 Why are we here? 44 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,080 Good question. Thank you for joining us, gentlemen. 45 00:02:28,740 --> 00:02:32,200 Now, we have a lot of questions, so try and keep opening statements short. 46 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,800 I'd like to keep this whole experience quite short, if I may. 47 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,420 But I do have quite a lot for me to say. 48 00:02:39,140 --> 00:02:43,300 I'd like to start by showing you, first of all, copies of an email. 49 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,220 With respect, Mr Davies, we have quite a few questions for you. I understand 50 00:02:47,220 --> 00:02:49,040 that, but I think your questions will be given in context. 51 00:02:49,340 --> 00:02:51,340 Let's open with a question from... Mr Whittingdale. 52 00:02:54,740 --> 00:02:55,980 Do you want the evidence or not? 53 00:02:57,780 --> 00:02:58,920 I would like to read it. 54 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:12,600 There you go. 55 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:20,000 This is an email sent for Neville Thirlbeck, chief reporter for News of 56 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,440 World. A document the police have had for some time. 57 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,420 A document that contains transcripts of hacked voicemails. 58 00:03:28,300 --> 00:03:30,420 I hope you'll agree this backs up our claims. 59 00:03:31,020 --> 00:03:34,920 But what's more unsettling is that Scott Renjard have never arrested or 60 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,760 interviewed Neville Thirlbeck. 61 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,580 My chief concern is... Mr Davies, it's all very dramatic, but if you can get 62 00:03:40,580 --> 00:03:45,040 back to the matter in hand... Mr Whittingdale, I'm very worried that news 63 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,200 international journalists have been breaking the law, and equally worried 64 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,080 Scotland Yard do not appear to have investigated them. 65 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,960 Mr Davies, this is all very dramatic. 66 00:04:03,460 --> 00:04:06,820 It's amazing what you can do with... Kids glue and some black paper. 67 00:04:07,980 --> 00:04:12,220 You got your kids to redact a... They enjoyed it. They like craft. 68 00:04:14,180 --> 00:04:15,440 Good revolution, right? 69 00:04:17,399 --> 00:04:20,940 What was that letter Che Guevara wrote to his kids? 70 00:04:24,220 --> 00:04:25,220 Alan? 71 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,000 Hi. 72 00:04:29,620 --> 00:04:30,620 Oh, it's fine. 73 00:04:31,380 --> 00:04:32,940 I think we got away with it. 74 00:04:38,950 --> 00:04:39,950 What are they saying? 75 00:04:43,870 --> 00:04:44,870 Yeah. 76 00:04:47,050 --> 00:04:49,490 Can you just... Yes. 77 00:04:50,330 --> 00:04:52,810 Right. Thanks for letting me know. 78 00:04:56,170 --> 00:04:58,090 David Leopard, the Sunday Times. 79 00:04:58,470 --> 00:04:59,590 Why is Leopard following you? 80 00:04:59,830 --> 00:05:00,830 It wasn't him. 81 00:05:02,650 --> 00:05:06,750 Leopard's spreading a story that I hired John Ford to hack voicemail. 82 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,540 It's apparently all over Parliament. 83 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:10,980 John Ford the blagger. 84 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:15,380 They're saying it's in relation to our investigation of Monsanto. 85 00:05:15,620 --> 00:05:17,640 I did use an intelligence firm. 86 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:19,400 Mnemosis. 87 00:05:20,220 --> 00:05:24,560 It's possible they subcontracted to John Ford. 88 00:05:26,860 --> 00:05:29,320 Well, the Guardian isn't in trouble anymore. 89 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:31,600 I am. 90 00:05:53,550 --> 00:05:54,550 John Ford. 91 00:05:55,070 --> 00:05:59,110 John Ford has had his hand in and out of Alastair Campbell's trash for years, 92 00:05:59,330 --> 00:06:01,210 but his real talent was for blagging. 93 00:06:01,870 --> 00:06:05,730 An ex -actor with style, he did all sorts to get all sorts. 94 00:06:06,170 --> 00:06:08,250 Gordon Brown's bank records, for one. 95 00:06:10,670 --> 00:06:17,670 And Alan may have hired him, which, well, the newspaper industry loves a 96 00:06:17,670 --> 00:06:18,990 bit of hypocrisy to expose. 97 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:29,960 Morning. 98 00:06:31,260 --> 00:06:33,680 Not the face you were hoping to wake up to. 99 00:06:38,180 --> 00:06:43,360 Now, I think the time has come to admit that John Ford isn't home. 100 00:06:44,740 --> 00:06:47,740 David Lee, investigations editor at the Guardian. 101 00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:52,020 Also, Alan's brother -in -law. The Sunday Times have got him well hid. 102 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,760 Perhaps we can get hold of Alan's paper trail. 103 00:07:03,300 --> 00:07:05,140 Get inside the intelligence firm. 104 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:06,640 Start again. 105 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,480 It'll take too long. They'll publish before... Then Alan will take a hit, and 106 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:16,040 hope he survives it. But sitting here, Nick, it's getting us nowhere. 107 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,400 This is not all my fault. 108 00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:21,300 Murdoch's an eel. 109 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:23,960 He's entirely relentless. 110 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,180 I'm not picking a fight with Murdoch. 111 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:27,520 No. 112 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,420 I'm picking a fight with our entire industry. 113 00:07:32,220 --> 00:07:33,220 Don't answer it. 114 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,580 No, do, do. Don't let them leave a voicemail. 115 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:36,800 It's an email. 116 00:07:37,620 --> 00:07:40,780 A statement from the Crown Prosecution Service. 117 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:49,860 The CPS says it's not appropriate to reopen the case or revisit the decision. 118 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,320 They're not backing us. 119 00:07:55,020 --> 00:07:59,400 What was it that John Yates said about the case? Something about a small number 120 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:00,660 of... Of hacks, yeah. 121 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,020 Our inquiry showed that they only used the tactic against a far smaller number 122 00:08:05,020 --> 00:08:06,020 of individuals. 123 00:08:06,580 --> 00:08:07,580 Page two. 124 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:13,840 Searchmore Care's office sees material which indicated some non -royal cases 125 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:20,200 been hacked. The DPP states only a select sample of these could be taken to 126 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:21,200 court because... 127 00:08:21,750 --> 00:08:26,110 Any other approach might have made the case unmanageable. 128 00:08:27,670 --> 00:08:29,350 Unmanageable? That's just a loss of hacking. 129 00:08:29,570 --> 00:08:30,570 We're the one reporter. 130 00:08:30,690 --> 00:08:31,690 Yeah. 131 00:08:32,110 --> 00:08:33,890 Almost an admission of such. 132 00:08:36,370 --> 00:08:37,530 All right, you call. 133 00:08:38,110 --> 00:08:39,110 Got it. 134 00:08:39,830 --> 00:08:41,270 That means you need to leave the car. 135 00:08:41,870 --> 00:08:42,870 Got it. Yeah. 136 00:08:45,990 --> 00:08:48,650 Hi, this is Nick Davis of The Guardian. Hi there. 137 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,980 I need to speak to somebody at the CPS about the Glenn Mulcair prosecution. 138 00:08:52,700 --> 00:08:57,500 Yes, but specifically, how can I help you? Specifically, I want to know what 139 00:08:57,500 --> 00:09:01,760 police passed up and you declined to prosecute because any other approach 140 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:06,720 have been, quote, unmanageable. I have information, particularly an email that 141 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:07,720 want to discuss. 142 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:09,920 Yes, sir. 143 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:11,160 Can I pick you a hold? 144 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:12,440 Yes, I will hold. 145 00:09:15,580 --> 00:09:16,580 Really? 146 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:20,280 The plot thickens. 147 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,360 The Neville email was never flagged. The Met never flagged it in the TPA. 148 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:26,120 Why not? 149 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,640 I can't get this up. It's too important. 150 00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:31,100 No, I know. 151 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:32,840 I won't let it hurt Alan. 152 00:09:35,540 --> 00:09:37,660 I'm not entirely sure you can make that promise. 153 00:09:58,930 --> 00:09:59,930 Hi. Hi. 154 00:10:00,710 --> 00:10:02,450 Here's your sandwich. Oh, cheers. 155 00:10:06,370 --> 00:10:07,370 You look rough. 156 00:10:08,450 --> 00:10:09,450 Yeah, and you look beautiful. 157 00:10:10,950 --> 00:10:11,950 I'm not sleeping. 158 00:10:13,290 --> 00:10:14,290 No, neither am I. 159 00:10:15,550 --> 00:10:16,550 Daniel Morgan. 160 00:10:16,690 --> 00:10:18,690 Anything I can... I can't tell you anything, you know that. 161 00:10:19,890 --> 00:10:20,890 They're coming to town. No. 162 00:10:22,610 --> 00:10:24,350 Christ, salmon and cream cheese, eh? 163 00:10:24,770 --> 00:10:25,770 Scottish salmon. 164 00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:27,350 And I need some... 165 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,840 Non -Daniel Morgan advice. 166 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,360 Oh, you're saying Ponzi -Simonies don't come free? 167 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,180 Why would the Met not flag evidence to the Crown Protocol? 168 00:10:40,260 --> 00:10:41,340 CPS don't get everything. 169 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,780 And everything it does get has to pass the relevance test, right? 170 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,160 Right. OK. 171 00:10:48,700 --> 00:10:50,320 So, is this relevant? 172 00:10:50,780 --> 00:10:54,040 They're transcripts for Neville Felbeck, chief reporter of the News of the 173 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,040 World. 174 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,980 And they didn't get shown there? They put it through as unused material. 175 00:11:02,460 --> 00:11:03,460 Shit. 176 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:06,980 Tell me, what is happening in the Met? 177 00:11:08,940 --> 00:11:13,120 Well, there's obviously a lot I can't tell you, but what I can say is that 178 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:18,180 since Stephen Lawrence, the Mets have made it their job to... Well, Dick 179 00:11:18,180 --> 00:11:19,580 Fedorchian, Director of Communications? 180 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,340 Yeah, I've met him. Well, he currently sits in the Mets' senior management 181 00:11:23,420 --> 00:11:24,580 or comms chief. 182 00:11:25,070 --> 00:11:28,610 not a police officer, and he has direct impact on operational decisions. 183 00:11:29,530 --> 00:11:30,910 Good press matters that much. 184 00:11:32,390 --> 00:11:36,910 These meetings are dominated by how to get the cases that are going well in the 185 00:11:36,910 --> 00:11:39,850 front of the tabloids and the cases that are not going so well off them. 186 00:11:40,930 --> 00:11:45,770 By order of the commissioner, Dick will wine and dine the crime journalists and 187 00:11:45,770 --> 00:11:46,990 guess who he meets the most? 188 00:11:48,370 --> 00:11:49,610 News of the world in the sun. 189 00:11:50,890 --> 00:11:52,930 But not flagging this to the CPS. 190 00:11:53,610 --> 00:11:57,320 Fine. But look at you stop there now, you're making me jumpy. Nothing, I'm 191 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:58,980 watched. What are you, Anthony Hay? 192 00:11:59,260 --> 00:12:00,260 You, for one thing. 193 00:12:00,660 --> 00:12:03,380 Hey, I'm just meeting a pal for a fancy sandwich. 194 00:12:04,940 --> 00:12:10,040 Glenn Mulcair did a minimum 20 ,000 hours work for the News of the World. 195 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:12,880 That's on record, it's an industrial level of work. 196 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,600 Which means he worked for far more journalists than Clive Goodman. So 197 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,080 Felbeck appears to be one other, but was he feeding all of them? 198 00:12:22,380 --> 00:12:23,780 No, just be careful, OK? 199 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,840 In these people, I might be fucked. 200 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,160 Thank you. 201 00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:47,740 John Harris. 202 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:49,080 Nick Davies. 203 00:12:49,860 --> 00:12:50,860 Brian. 204 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:52,900 You sound delighted to hear from me. 205 00:12:53,660 --> 00:12:55,100 Delighted and not surprised. 206 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,160 How did you get this number? Did you flag it? 207 00:12:57,460 --> 00:13:00,360 Your office gave it to me. I can be very polite and surprisingly charming. 208 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,780 If you're calling about the CPS announcement, I'm not as tough as you 209 00:13:03,780 --> 00:13:04,779 there's little I can do. 210 00:13:04,780 --> 00:13:08,880 Look, the CPS have a file on Glenn Mulcair. You must know somebody. Nick, I 211 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,320 don't work for you and I've got to go. Good luck and goodbye. 212 00:13:12,180 --> 00:13:13,180 Goodbye. 213 00:13:14,020 --> 00:13:17,760 Glenn Mulcair. 214 00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:22,200 Chief phone hacker for the news of the world. Given six months jail time for 215 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,980 Clive Goodman case. But now, he doesn't about. 216 00:13:25,620 --> 00:13:26,760 And nothing about. 217 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:32,880 What's 218 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:39,420 up? 219 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:40,600 Nick Davis. 220 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:42,720 I saw you. 221 00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:44,840 Maroon Saab by the park. 222 00:13:46,670 --> 00:13:48,470 You think I'd do what I do without being good at it? 223 00:13:48,950 --> 00:13:51,130 I don't know if you've been reading my pieces in the Guardian. 224 00:13:51,790 --> 00:13:52,790 Are you taping this? 225 00:13:53,410 --> 00:13:56,210 No, I know. I wouldn't do that without your consent, Mr. Mulcair. 226 00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:58,030 It's Glenn. 227 00:13:59,630 --> 00:14:01,090 So who else are you talking to, Nick? 228 00:14:01,330 --> 00:14:02,470 Got anyone good in the police? 229 00:14:03,010 --> 00:14:04,210 It was your snout. It's gross. 230 00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:06,290 Who are you still talking to at that paper? 231 00:14:07,310 --> 00:14:08,310 You're funny. 232 00:14:09,890 --> 00:14:10,829 Why are you here? 233 00:14:10,830 --> 00:14:12,770 Did you ever work for Neville Thirlby? 234 00:14:13,850 --> 00:14:19,350 Right. Let me save you some time. I have an email written to you, which is 235 00:14:19,350 --> 00:14:23,550 marked for Neville, from Ross Hindley, and it contains transcripts of 35. 236 00:14:23,710 --> 00:14:25,210 Everything I did came out in court. 237 00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:28,370 Anything more than that, I didn't do. They cut you off, right? 238 00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:31,990 You do know you're still open to future charges. 239 00:14:33,330 --> 00:14:36,870 Get out now before the whole thing collapses. You know I've got five kids 240 00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:40,230 there. And you come to my house, and what threatened me? I wasn't threatening 241 00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:42,110 you. Have you any idea what you're dealing with here? 242 00:14:44,589 --> 00:14:47,230 You do yours, and I'll do mine. Yeah? 243 00:14:47,490 --> 00:14:50,490 I wasn't threatening you. I was just telling you they won't help. 244 00:14:55,450 --> 00:15:00,350 Okay, so there is a lie happening here. The PPF memo shows this stretch is right 245 00:15:00,350 --> 00:15:01,610 inside News International. 246 00:15:01,910 --> 00:15:05,330 Glenn Mulcair essentially confirmed it. He didn't confirm it. I'm digging in. In 247 00:15:05,330 --> 00:15:09,770 the meantime, I'd like to publish, ask Scotland Yard, scared of Rupert Murdoch. 248 00:15:10,030 --> 00:15:11,030 Saying what? 249 00:15:11,510 --> 00:15:12,510 Saying they... 250 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,000 buried evidence which should have been passed to the cps poking the bear well 251 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,120 that's what we do now poke the bear no can we just take a minute what's your 252 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,640 angle here well i have two lines of attack one to reveal who was on their 253 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,580 shopping list i need names much more of them there were far more than than three 254 00:15:27,580 --> 00:15:30,700 rulers five non -royal i want to know who signed up on these names i mean 255 00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:33,980 it was more than clive goodman how will you get that proof my second line of 256 00:15:33,980 --> 00:15:37,980 attack is to get inside the police a mistake to discover why this evidence 257 00:15:37,980 --> 00:15:42,080 wasn't flagged to the CPS. What criminality was ignored and why? 258 00:15:42,380 --> 00:15:44,920 John Yates called me and said we've got the wrong end of the stick with the 259 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:46,740 police in all of this. We're on the wrong end of the stick. 260 00:15:46,940 --> 00:15:48,580 Yes, do you not think that's possible? 261 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:54,020 Look, we call this insensible. We're risking our relationship with the police 262 00:15:54,020 --> 00:15:57,740 and with good journalists from other newspapers. Why? To root out a few bad 263 00:15:57,740 --> 00:15:58,820 apples. Bad apples? 264 00:15:59,060 --> 00:16:00,060 Wrong sticks. 265 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:05,120 I agree with Nick. The Neville email is extraordinary, and the fact that they 266 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,520 didn't flag it to the CPS, more extraordinary still. 267 00:16:08,820 --> 00:16:12,760 A chief reporter seems to have been involved in hacking that didn't warrant 268 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:13,760 investigation. 269 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,440 There are potentially thousands of victims, but the Met is only claiming a 270 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:18,720 number. What do you think, Jill? 271 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,940 For a public interest offence, you need to be absolutely sure of your facts. 272 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,120 Right now, they feel a bit small. 273 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:26,540 I have to say I agree. 274 00:16:27,180 --> 00:16:29,280 Let's pause on the Scotland Yard article. 275 00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:32,850 Let's let the PCC... Press Complaints Commission. 276 00:16:33,150 --> 00:16:35,130 The PCC will settle all this down. 277 00:16:35,750 --> 00:16:38,530 They'll back us, and it'll all be easier. 278 00:16:39,830 --> 00:16:40,950 What else have we got? 279 00:16:41,270 --> 00:16:45,470 Something other than, when's Gordon Brown going to call this next damn 280 00:16:46,210 --> 00:16:49,070 Listen, Alan's nervous, but he's right. 281 00:16:49,410 --> 00:16:55,210 You need more, but the angles you're pursuing, also right. Who says the PCC 282 00:16:55,210 --> 00:16:56,199 going to back us? 283 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:57,200 What, you don't think they will? 284 00:16:57,340 --> 00:16:59,740 Why is Alan waiting for them? You know we have to keep pushing. 285 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:01,540 Kill or be killed. We can't wait. 286 00:17:01,780 --> 00:17:06,079 Yes. The Sunday Times are getting ready to publish on John Ford and Alan. 287 00:17:07,060 --> 00:17:08,060 Right. 288 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,300 Has Lamasius come back with any more? 289 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,300 Nothing to give as categorical proof. 290 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,000 He's in trouble. 291 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:16,520 Just give him time. 292 00:17:17,339 --> 00:17:21,599 They're accusing him of being a hypocrite. We have hypocrisy on 293 00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:22,599 world's gone mad. 294 00:17:23,180 --> 00:17:24,180 Look, Nick. 295 00:17:26,069 --> 00:17:27,069 Nick. 296 00:17:30,410 --> 00:17:31,410 No, 297 00:17:34,150 --> 00:17:37,190 Nick. Nick, Nick, whatever you're doing, Nick, stop. 298 00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:41,230 Hello. 299 00:17:41,350 --> 00:17:44,710 Hi, this is Nick Davis of The Guardian. Try this Sunday time for managing 300 00:17:44,710 --> 00:17:46,130 editors. I mean it, Nick. 301 00:17:50,450 --> 00:17:52,690 Hello? Hi, this is Nick Davis of The Guardian. 302 00:17:52,910 --> 00:17:53,910 Hi. Yeah. 303 00:17:54,690 --> 00:17:58,940 I'd like... confirmation on the record of, A, how many times you've made 304 00:17:58,940 --> 00:18:04,420 payments to John Ford to blag into confidential data pages, and, B, the 305 00:18:04,420 --> 00:18:06,520 of time over which these payments have been made. 306 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,080 OK, we'll need to investigate. Of course, we'll need to do some 307 00:18:10,340 --> 00:18:13,220 You just call me back whenever you've had the chance to do so, yeah? 308 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:14,760 OK. All right. 309 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:16,759 Great, bye. 310 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:17,760 Bye -bye. 311 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:31,320 Peter, Frank. 312 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:32,680 I don't drink. 313 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:35,320 Can I get you something softer? 314 00:18:35,980 --> 00:18:36,980 A Mars bar. 315 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,900 Yeah, sure, I'll tell you everything I know for a Mars bar. I wasn't... I'm not 316 00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,560 threatening you. No, no, you're Willy Wonka. 317 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:44,920 Chocolate for everyone. 318 00:18:46,020 --> 00:18:48,320 I want to know your side of the story. 319 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:50,540 How did you find me here? 320 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,040 You're on the club's website. 321 00:18:52,180 --> 00:18:54,980 You won the big break competition here two years ago. Congratulations. 322 00:18:56,490 --> 00:19:00,330 Court transcripts. It says that you worked for News of the World for 70 323 00:19:00,330 --> 00:19:01,330 week. Here we go. 324 00:19:01,450 --> 00:19:03,850 Over six years, that's over 20 ,000 hours. 325 00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:07,670 What were you doing for them during that time? I'm a PI. 326 00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:09,270 Did PI work? 327 00:19:09,530 --> 00:19:10,530 For whom? 328 00:19:10,830 --> 00:19:12,470 Because it wasn't just Clive Goodman. 329 00:19:12,690 --> 00:19:14,930 Name in names, that's two miles by at least. 330 00:19:15,210 --> 00:19:16,210 I know. 331 00:19:16,590 --> 00:19:20,850 You are the blame for all this. Your name is in the mud already. You explain 332 00:19:20,850 --> 00:19:24,780 exactly what you did. I know. And who you were working for? I wanted to tell 333 00:19:24,780 --> 00:19:28,700 who. The police have got all my notebooks and my computers and 334 00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:29,700 Notebooks. 335 00:19:30,620 --> 00:19:31,620 What's in those? 336 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:34,280 Fuck you. 337 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,660 It was in the CPS report that your office was searched, the material was 338 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:38,679 but I didn't know there were notebooks. 339 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,640 You find me a PI who doesn't write things down. 340 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,000 Yeah, well, what's in them? 341 00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:43,300 Lines of inquiry. 342 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,020 Names of people you were hacking. Sorry, doing PI work on. 343 00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:50,540 And the names of who you were doing them for. 344 00:19:52,290 --> 00:19:53,770 Names of News of the World journalists. 345 00:19:54,650 --> 00:19:55,650 Go away. 346 00:19:56,210 --> 00:19:57,690 And take your cheap beer with you. 347 00:19:58,410 --> 00:20:03,090 I do not think, genuinely, really, do not think that you should be the fall 348 00:20:03,090 --> 00:20:06,830 here. Yeah, well, be careful that you're not a fall guy, too. 349 00:20:07,310 --> 00:20:08,310 Hey, champ? 350 00:20:08,930 --> 00:20:10,810 Now, please fuck off. 351 00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:13,650 Let me do the one thing I still enjoy. 352 00:20:14,110 --> 00:20:15,110 All right. 353 00:20:16,270 --> 00:20:17,270 Good luck. 354 00:20:24,020 --> 00:20:25,100 Mulcair has given me an idea. 355 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:26,239 Oh, good. 356 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:27,300 All he's given me is a headache. 357 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,780 We need to get inside the court system. We need to get more information 358 00:20:30,780 --> 00:20:32,160 released. Sorry? 359 00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:34,560 They won't release documents to me. 360 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,220 They will if they're compelled to by a judge. 361 00:20:36,420 --> 00:20:37,980 Hang on. Can you calm down? 362 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:40,640 What? Children. 363 00:20:41,420 --> 00:20:42,920 You are aware it's the weekend. 364 00:20:43,420 --> 00:20:46,960 All right. The police have Mulcair's notebooks. If we can get them into the 365 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,100 public eye, we'll see who hired who, how high this goes, who was being hacked. 366 00:20:51,340 --> 00:20:52,780 I need... We need... 367 00:20:52,990 --> 00:20:53,990 Compelled evidence. 368 00:20:54,370 --> 00:20:57,930 Use what between I need and we need in the same sentence. Do you know that? 369 00:20:58,250 --> 00:21:02,290 I know you've other clients. I know you're building several cases here. Help 370 00:21:02,390 --> 00:21:03,390 It'll help you too. 371 00:21:05,030 --> 00:21:08,990 We don't work together, Nick. Well, of course we don't, but we do have the same 372 00:21:08,990 --> 00:21:13,850 cause. I can't get inside the notebooks because I'm not mentioned in the 373 00:21:13,850 --> 00:21:18,550 notebooks. But you'll find a client who is in there who has the bravery to take 374 00:21:18,550 --> 00:21:19,549 it to court. 375 00:21:19,550 --> 00:21:20,550 Suddenly... 376 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,600 We'll see how much this opens up. 377 00:21:25,260 --> 00:21:31,540 Let me, um... There might be somebody you could talk to. 378 00:21:32,260 --> 00:21:36,220 Well, let me know as soon as you can, okay? Yes, I heard you. I'm on it. 379 00:21:36,620 --> 00:21:37,680 Okay, thanks. Bye. 380 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:47,320 There is an art to fear. 381 00:21:48,030 --> 00:21:51,790 An art, the news of the world and the sun and all those nasty buggers mastered 382 00:21:51,790 --> 00:21:53,550 long time ago. They call it monstering. 383 00:21:54,250 --> 00:21:55,610 Grievous emotional harm. 384 00:21:56,290 --> 00:21:59,330 The kind of injury from which some victims simply never recover. 385 00:22:00,350 --> 00:22:04,990 A monstering is intended to destroy the victim involved and it is intended to 386 00:22:04,990 --> 00:22:07,350 make sure that no one stands up to them ever again. 387 00:22:08,510 --> 00:22:11,210 Take former Labour government minister Claire Short. 388 00:22:11,470 --> 00:22:15,310 She criticised the sun's use of topless women to sell the paper. She found 389 00:22:15,310 --> 00:22:17,110 herself denounced to millions as... 390 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:18,320 Killjoy Claire. 391 00:22:18,780 --> 00:22:19,820 Short on looks. 392 00:22:20,620 --> 00:22:21,760 Short on brains. 393 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,340 The paper offered free car stickers. 394 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,960 Sent page three models round to her home. 395 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,120 Ran a beauty contest to ask their readers whether they would prefer to see 396 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,040 face or the back of a bus. 397 00:22:35,740 --> 00:22:41,960 The news of the world ran two bogus stories suggesting Claire was involved 398 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:42,960 pornography. 399 00:22:43,150 --> 00:22:46,770 tried to buy old photographs of her as a 20 -year -old in a nightdress, and 400 00:22:46,770 --> 00:22:50,290 published a smear story which attempted to link her to a West Indian gangster. 401 00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:52,970 They monstered her. 402 00:22:53,810 --> 00:22:54,810 It was horrible. 403 00:22:57,270 --> 00:23:01,770 In his diary, Alistair Campbell recalls the ferocious monstering which was given 404 00:23:01,770 --> 00:23:04,990 to the then Transport Secretary Stephen Byers in 2002. 405 00:23:05,770 --> 00:23:07,650 It continued even after he resigned. 406 00:23:08,410 --> 00:23:11,470 It's like they get a corpse, but then they're disappointed there's nothing 407 00:23:11,470 --> 00:23:12,429 to kill. 408 00:23:12,430 --> 00:23:14,170 So they try and kill the dead body too. 409 00:23:14,550 --> 00:23:17,650 So standing up to it, standing up to that paper takes guts. 410 00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:21,290 And possibly a little insanity. 411 00:23:22,850 --> 00:23:23,850 Max, it's an honour. 412 00:23:24,610 --> 00:23:25,610 An honour? 413 00:23:25,990 --> 00:23:26,990 Is that right? 414 00:23:28,250 --> 00:23:30,790 Max Clifford, king of the kiss and tell. 415 00:23:31,070 --> 00:23:35,190 His job was bargaining with the tabloids to get the best headlines and the most 416 00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:36,930 money for his string of clients. 417 00:23:37,150 --> 00:23:39,330 Didn't need to be true, just needed to sell. 418 00:23:40,300 --> 00:23:42,620 Do you remember Freddie Star ate my hamster? 419 00:23:43,180 --> 00:23:44,380 He wrote that headline. 420 00:23:45,380 --> 00:23:48,560 But maybe it takes a tabloid man to kill the tabloids. 421 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,520 I'm sincerely grateful for you being here. 422 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,220 Charlotte, explain your problem. 423 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,280 I have a feeling that our interests might align on this. 424 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:57,720 They hacked me. 425 00:23:58,020 --> 00:23:59,020 That's on record. 426 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,940 And I want to find out who signed up on it. Well, that's extremely important. We 427 00:24:03,940 --> 00:24:05,640 hope it will be important. 428 00:24:06,220 --> 00:24:09,140 We've had our first disclosure. We've made an application to the courts. 429 00:24:09,870 --> 00:24:12,210 This is everything Mulcair wrote about Max. 430 00:24:21,230 --> 00:24:22,390 They've redacted everyone. 431 00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:25,650 In particular, anything which might identify the News of the World 432 00:24:25,650 --> 00:24:27,270 who might have commissioned the hacking. 433 00:24:27,630 --> 00:24:29,970 I'm going back to court. We'll get more. 434 00:24:30,370 --> 00:24:33,310 Question. When they disclosed Gordon Taylor's paperwork, did they redact 435 00:24:33,310 --> 00:24:34,350 anything? No. 436 00:24:34,870 --> 00:24:35,870 Why start now? 437 00:24:35,950 --> 00:24:38,370 Because it implicates them. So did Gordon Taylor. 438 00:24:40,229 --> 00:24:43,770 They're working out how to make themselves impenetrable. 439 00:24:45,090 --> 00:24:46,090 They're watching us. 440 00:24:47,230 --> 00:24:48,630 You do know what you're taking on. 441 00:24:49,250 --> 00:24:50,750 Do you know who you're talking to? 442 00:24:51,230 --> 00:24:52,970 I believe Rebecca Brooks is your friend. 443 00:24:53,910 --> 00:24:55,610 Didn't you help her when she was accused of assault? 444 00:24:56,010 --> 00:24:57,850 I help her, but not in that case. 445 00:24:58,730 --> 00:25:01,130 I have my loyalties, and I have beliefs. 446 00:25:02,130 --> 00:25:03,630 I mean, I know Andy Coulson. 447 00:25:04,090 --> 00:25:06,090 Him, sitting next to the Prime Minister. 448 00:25:07,210 --> 00:25:08,330 That's wrong in every way. 449 00:25:09,230 --> 00:25:12,510 What are you saying? I spent my entire life inside that machine. 450 00:25:12,770 --> 00:25:15,370 I know what their guns smell like. 451 00:25:16,370 --> 00:25:17,370 Do you? 452 00:25:17,550 --> 00:25:18,570 We need you back. 453 00:25:20,110 --> 00:25:24,090 Christ. If I'm your best hope, you're fucked. 454 00:25:36,510 --> 00:25:37,650 You look tired. 455 00:25:38,670 --> 00:25:39,670 You're sleeping. 456 00:25:40,270 --> 00:25:42,110 Oh, I've definitely slept better. 457 00:25:42,750 --> 00:25:45,710 That mortgage application, did that come back at all? 458 00:25:46,590 --> 00:25:48,010 No, but there was something else. 459 00:25:49,930 --> 00:25:55,190 So when I was picking the kids up, someone I didn't recognise started 460 00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:56,870 me about a Maggie someone. 461 00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:59,010 Now that's an ex of yours, right? 462 00:25:59,990 --> 00:26:01,530 Oh, God, did they see the kids? 463 00:26:02,610 --> 00:26:06,570 Yeah, I mean, they kept it casual, but... Shit! 464 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,440 Maggie, God, they're definitely digging. 465 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:11,880 I didn't like it, Nick. 466 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,000 I've got a gate. 467 00:26:15,380 --> 00:26:16,720 Well, look, they'll approach you again. 468 00:26:17,060 --> 00:26:18,860 You take out your phone, you take a photograph. 469 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,560 OK. And promise me it's not going to get worse than this. 470 00:26:24,220 --> 00:26:28,100 Well, they'd be really stupid to do anything I could print, but I'm sorry. 471 00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:29,100 really sorry. 472 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,020 Will they find any skeletons? 473 00:26:33,980 --> 00:26:35,580 If they look properly, they'll find a cemetery. 474 00:26:36,419 --> 00:26:37,419 This is a delivery. 475 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,380 Stay where you are. No, no, let me go. 476 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:41,580 We'll talk later. 477 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:42,899 Bye, kids. 478 00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:43,900 Bye -bye. 479 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:50,180 How are you? I'm good. You all right? 480 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:51,660 I am. 481 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:53,880 Hello. 482 00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:55,300 You coming in? 483 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,020 No. I've got food on. It was enough. 484 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,220 I had some good news, actually. Max Clifford, all people, taking them to 485 00:27:04,780 --> 00:27:06,200 John Forting's gone away. 486 00:27:08,780 --> 00:27:09,780 Wait. 487 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,260 You think I don't know how? 488 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:14,720 Let's look inside. 489 00:27:14,780 --> 00:27:19,060 Nick Davies. Always guaranteed to bring a flamethrower to a knife fight. 490 00:27:19,380 --> 00:27:20,620 It was the best thing to do. 491 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:23,240 You didn't think to consult me beforehand? 492 00:27:23,820 --> 00:27:28,740 It's gone away, Alan. Because you, um... What's the right word to use here? 493 00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:30,300 Provoked them. 494 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,900 In Flat Earth News, I found substantial proof that the Sunday Times were using 495 00:27:33,900 --> 00:27:35,820 John Ford. That doesn't matter. Of course it matters. 496 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,860 They were wrong to use John Ford. I was wrong if I did inadvertently use John 497 00:27:41,860 --> 00:27:46,420 Ford. And you were wrong to get involved in a way that wasn't asked for and 498 00:27:46,420 --> 00:27:47,420 wasn't warranted. 499 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,160 I was trying to broker peace with John Witherow, and you could have 500 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,600 that. Starting a fight with the News of the World and the Sunday Times. 501 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,700 I knew it would work. Are you denying that it did? 502 00:27:57,900 --> 00:27:59,960 No. But if you knew it would work... 503 00:28:00,190 --> 00:28:01,950 Why didn't you make that call at the very beginning? 504 00:28:02,370 --> 00:28:06,130 Why did you try and find him? Spent a couple of nights in a car with David 505 00:28:06,210 --> 00:28:07,210 Jesus Christ, Nick. 506 00:28:07,890 --> 00:28:10,610 You're such a... hazard. 507 00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:16,270 I was just following what was... Alan, come on. Look, we need to keep pushing. 508 00:28:16,730 --> 00:28:18,930 They will push back. We need to keep pushing. 509 00:28:19,130 --> 00:28:20,130 I get it. 510 00:28:20,510 --> 00:28:21,510 You're exhausted. 511 00:28:21,530 --> 00:28:24,690 You think you're taking on everyone by yourself. But it's not just you in the 512 00:28:24,690 --> 00:28:25,750 box on this one, Nick. 513 00:28:26,090 --> 00:28:27,090 It's all of us. 514 00:28:28,590 --> 00:28:30,930 I can't have a hand on your leg the whole time. 515 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:11,800 I guess you'd be up. 516 00:29:11,980 --> 00:29:15,320 Yep. The Press Complaints Commission have come back. 517 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,200 Not good news. 518 00:29:17,460 --> 00:29:22,100 The PCC has seen no new evidence to suggest that the practice of the phone 519 00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:26,900 messaging tapping was undertaken by other beyond Goodman and Mulcair, or 520 00:29:26,900 --> 00:29:31,160 evidence that the News of the World executives knew about Goodman or 521 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,340 activities. You were right. Alan was wrong. They haven't backed us either. 522 00:29:36,140 --> 00:29:37,140 Yeah. OK. 523 00:29:37,180 --> 00:29:38,180 Sorry, Nick. 524 00:29:38,260 --> 00:29:39,300 Thanks for calling. 525 00:29:39,580 --> 00:29:40,580 Bye. Bye. 526 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,040 Welcome to your voicemail. You have four new messages. 527 00:29:58,260 --> 00:30:00,960 To listen to your messages, press one. 528 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:02,880 There's a call. 529 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,140 I'm here to read your meter. Message deleted. 530 00:30:06,660 --> 00:30:07,680 Next message. 531 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:09,360 Hey, it's Charlotte. 532 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,200 We've entered the imminent claim for Max and we're waiting for the courts to get 533 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,200 the message deleted. 534 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:15,480 Next message. 535 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,000 Derek, hi, it's me. 536 00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:18,300 Another one. 537 00:30:18,540 --> 00:30:21,100 I'm not sure if it's anything but a girl you... 538 00:30:56,860 --> 00:30:57,860 Hello, Dad. 539 00:30:59,740 --> 00:31:00,740 You're looking fair. 540 00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:02,500 You look good. 541 00:31:03,620 --> 00:31:04,620 Still a charmer. 542 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,880 I should be helping with that, Papa. 543 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,100 Would, would, could. 544 00:31:23,740 --> 00:31:25,120 No, you can't. 545 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,400 Anyway, these are the good hours. 546 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:29,640 What's that mean? 547 00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:36,980 Hips hurt, knees hurt, back hurts till 11am and then again from 3pm. 548 00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:38,300 But 11 till 3? 549 00:31:38,660 --> 00:31:39,660 It's a holiday. 550 00:31:39,740 --> 00:31:41,200 Never get old. 551 00:31:43,700 --> 00:31:47,740 So you've got four good hours and you sleep for presumably eight. Yeah, but 552 00:31:47,740 --> 00:31:49,360 don't turn it into a maths puzzle. 553 00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:53,460 I can still do the crossword, however my hips feel. 554 00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:55,310 That's all that counts. 555 00:31:59,130 --> 00:32:00,590 The crossword in the Times. 556 00:32:01,850 --> 00:32:03,610 Should I stop buying the Times? 557 00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:05,070 Yes. 558 00:32:06,050 --> 00:32:07,650 I won't. I know. 559 00:32:09,230 --> 00:32:11,530 I've, um, been reading your pieces. 560 00:32:11,970 --> 00:32:15,250 You've managed to watch the Select Committee. I have no idea how you even 561 00:32:15,250 --> 00:32:16,890 that. I'm not a dinosaur. 562 00:32:17,190 --> 00:32:18,330 I can use the Internet. 563 00:32:24,090 --> 00:32:25,090 Hard as it looks. 564 00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:26,190 It's fine. 565 00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:30,490 You've got nothing to prove. 566 00:32:31,090 --> 00:32:32,170 What can I prove anything? 567 00:32:41,770 --> 00:32:43,230 Your mother would have liked it. 568 00:32:44,010 --> 00:32:45,010 All this trouble. 569 00:32:46,030 --> 00:32:47,330 She always liked trouble. 570 00:32:54,250 --> 00:32:55,410 Just be safe with yourself. 571 00:32:56,250 --> 00:32:57,330 That's all I ask. 572 00:32:58,690 --> 00:32:59,690 Just be safe. 573 00:33:12,370 --> 00:33:13,370 Thank you. 574 00:33:13,890 --> 00:33:14,890 Fifth lawyer. 575 00:33:38,250 --> 00:33:38,849 Mr. Davis. 576 00:33:38,850 --> 00:33:39,749 This is the physician. 577 00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:40,750 Thank you for coming in. 578 00:33:40,930 --> 00:33:41,930 Thank you. 579 00:33:42,590 --> 00:33:43,610 Dick said we should meet. 580 00:33:43,950 --> 00:33:47,230 Yes. Dick Fedorcio was kind enough to arrange the meeting. 581 00:33:48,590 --> 00:33:51,950 I thought it useful so we could smooth matters over so we can help each other. 582 00:33:53,130 --> 00:33:55,610 I don't think I can help. No, no, no. I'm here to help you. 583 00:33:55,870 --> 00:34:00,390 A story that makes Scotland Yard look good. I just need you to confirm that in 584 00:34:00,390 --> 00:34:01,490 order to be able to... 585 00:34:02,910 --> 00:34:05,770 Inform all the potential victims of the hacking that you've set up a new 586 00:34:05,770 --> 00:34:09,530 database containing all the evidence which you gathered in 2006. 587 00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:11,550 Have we? 588 00:34:12,530 --> 00:34:17,350 Uh, well, a very good word from lawyers who've been in touch with the Yard, 589 00:34:17,389 --> 00:34:20,810 saying that you're taking the need to organize the evidence which perhaps 590 00:34:20,810 --> 00:34:21,830 organized quite so well. 591 00:34:22,510 --> 00:34:23,510 Seriously. 592 00:34:24,489 --> 00:34:25,489 All right, fine. 593 00:34:26,409 --> 00:34:28,290 Maybe we have organized the database. 594 00:34:28,730 --> 00:34:29,750 I will give you that. 595 00:34:30,469 --> 00:34:31,550 But in return... 596 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,100 Maybe you can cease and desist with briefing everyone against me. We have 597 00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:39,000 nothing to do with News International, and you bloody well know it. 598 00:34:40,139 --> 00:34:42,219 Commissioner, am I interested? You think I don't know what you're doing? 599 00:34:42,940 --> 00:34:46,239 When I appeared in front of that damn select committee, I could see in the eye 600 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,679 movements of the MPs that you'd brief all but one of them. 601 00:34:51,139 --> 00:34:52,139 Sorry, eye movements? 602 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:53,679 Mm -hmm. 603 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,179 I'm a clever cop, Mr Davis. 604 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:57,440 Right. 605 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,620 Why didn't you pass the... 606 00:35:01,259 --> 00:35:05,240 CPS the email to Neville Felbeck, which clearly implicated him in the hacking 607 00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:09,840 scandal. Was it because the CPS had said that you could only use a sample 608 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,840 because the evidence was unmanageable otherwise? No, the CPS were clear. 609 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:18,960 With the regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, it is only a crime if the 610 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,500 intended victim had not already heard the message. 611 00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:25,300 No one interprets Ripper like that except you. All I want to know is the 612 00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:28,220 of this. Can you tell me how many victims of phone hacking you've been 613 00:35:28,220 --> 00:35:29,220 identify? Mr. Davis. 614 00:35:29,930 --> 00:35:33,870 The Crown Prosecution Service do not agree with you. The Press Complaints 615 00:35:33,870 --> 00:35:35,350 Commission do not agree with you. 616 00:35:35,810 --> 00:35:39,370 And the Metropolitan Police certainly do not agree with you. 617 00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:44,050 There's dog -minded, and then there's just dog. 618 00:35:44,370 --> 00:35:47,910 This left -wing attack on Murdoch by the guard... If you can't give me a bold 619 00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:50,210 number, just tell me how many victims were in Mulcair's notebooks. 620 00:35:52,930 --> 00:35:56,530 I have never fallen out with a journalist before. 621 00:36:01,260 --> 00:36:02,360 You finally have done so. 622 00:36:03,020 --> 00:36:04,020 Congratulations. 623 00:36:40,590 --> 00:36:41,590 Look, I bought you a gift. 624 00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:45,630 It's an I'm not sorry gift. 625 00:36:48,250 --> 00:36:49,250 I'm going to look. 626 00:36:52,570 --> 00:36:54,970 But I'm also, um, I'm stuck. 627 00:36:55,270 --> 00:37:01,370 So, if calling it an I'm not sorry gift is offensive, call it a damn gift. 628 00:37:01,570 --> 00:37:04,070 As in, damn, I'm stuck, please help. Why are you stuck? 629 00:37:05,070 --> 00:37:06,530 They are, everybody is. 630 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,260 No one is telling me the truth. 631 00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:16,420 The amazing thing about you, Nick, is each time you find someone lying to you, 632 00:37:16,460 --> 00:37:19,740 you are utterly amazed, even though you've devoted most of your life to 633 00:37:19,740 --> 00:37:26,080 uncovering liars. I wear the coat of a cynic only to conceal the heart of an 634 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:27,380 agitated otter. 635 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,080 They are talking of cynicism. 636 00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:33,680 They're now spreading a rumour that I have a love child. 637 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,200 A love child. 638 00:37:38,260 --> 00:37:39,480 They're coming after me, too. 639 00:37:40,940 --> 00:37:44,200 Sheridan's been farming all sorts of calls. But they're not telling lies 640 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,240 you. Why are they only lies about me? 641 00:37:46,460 --> 00:37:47,218 Don't know. 642 00:37:47,220 --> 00:37:51,640 Because they think attacking me is the easiest way of shutting you up? 643 00:37:52,460 --> 00:37:53,460 Clever, really. 644 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,480 They know I need you. 645 00:37:56,260 --> 00:37:59,420 How curious you choose now to say something so kind. 646 00:38:01,060 --> 00:38:02,060 Oh, God. 647 00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:04,760 I'm your sensual panzer. 648 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:07,600 I was what I was yours. 649 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,300 I'm sorry, making your life difficult. 650 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:19,280 I don't... I don't take our friendship to mean that... I don't expect 651 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,440 you to print everything I write. 652 00:38:21,660 --> 00:38:24,580 You're just doing what you're doing, which is why you're the best. 653 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,400 It's why I pay you, handsomely. 654 00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:32,620 You're just as optimistic as me. Christ, you thought the PCC would come back on 655 00:38:32,620 --> 00:38:37,260 our side. Our so -called industry regulator could say that about us. 656 00:38:38,330 --> 00:38:39,510 The death of self -regulation. 657 00:38:41,350 --> 00:38:42,450 Me? What do I do? 658 00:38:42,890 --> 00:38:44,370 Can't you call your Mr Apollo? 659 00:38:45,050 --> 00:38:46,050 He's gone. 660 00:38:46,150 --> 00:38:47,150 Silly word. 661 00:38:48,130 --> 00:38:51,170 You always contacted me, never from the same line twice. 662 00:38:52,070 --> 00:38:55,250 I'll wait for Bax Clifford and your day in court. 663 00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:59,030 Bax is important. We can't wait. We're in a firefight here. They're going to 664 00:38:59,030 --> 00:39:00,890 keep slinging mud till something sticks. 665 00:39:02,570 --> 00:39:06,270 Then... What about the phone companies? 666 00:39:07,010 --> 00:39:12,760 Sorry? Yates made that claim in the select committee that they'd asked the 667 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,740 companies if there were any other victims of Mulcair at Goodman in order 668 00:39:16,740 --> 00:39:17,738 appropriate action. 669 00:39:17,740 --> 00:39:18,479 Yeah, I remember. 670 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:25,140 Well, ask the phone companies to disclose how many victims they 671 00:39:25,140 --> 00:39:26,620 warned of being hacked. 672 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,480 Might get the hack numbers that way. 673 00:39:31,380 --> 00:39:34,620 You're a genius, Sancho. Never call me that again. 674 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:42,320 Go on, click it. 675 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,940 Got books. 676 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,040 She's not naked. Those pens, when you click them, they're naked, but she's 677 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,280 covered in books. It's a joke. Thanks for explaining it to me. 678 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,220 I'll never use it. I'll never ask you to. Thank you. 679 00:39:59,300 --> 00:40:04,380 The commissioner called after you left Yates. He said to me that your coverage 680 00:40:04,380 --> 00:40:07,380 of the hacking scandal was exaggerated and incorrect. 681 00:40:08,090 --> 00:40:12,430 The first time I felt genuine confidence that we're doing absolutely the right 682 00:40:12,430 --> 00:40:13,430 thing. 683 00:40:15,790 --> 00:40:16,790 Adios. 684 00:40:17,890 --> 00:40:20,830 The select committee had, of course, rumbled on after us, meeting press, 685 00:40:21,010 --> 00:40:24,450 politicians, the police, trying to beat Rebecca Brooks. She said no. Though they 686 00:40:24,450 --> 00:40:28,170 succeeded in meeting Andy Coulson, who said... As little as possible. 687 00:40:28,430 --> 00:40:32,470 But they were working it as best they could, and I was working with them as 688 00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:34,690 I could, feeding them occasional questions. 689 00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:36,690 Which we asked in our own way. 690 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,480 Hadn't occurred to me that the police revealing in a memo written by Yates 691 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:46,140 the mobile phone companies had been contacted was a way in. The police 692 00:40:46,140 --> 00:40:52,660 the individual phone companies details of the telephone numbers and it was 693 00:40:52,660 --> 00:40:58,400 agreed that they would individually research, assess and address whether or 694 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:04,040 and to what degree their customers had been the subject of contact by the 695 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,040 suspects. 696 00:41:11,500 --> 00:41:15,360 What I'm looking to find out is when the police contacted you, what number of 697 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,540 victims you managed to trace and how many you contacted. 698 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:19,600 Well, yes. 699 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,940 But John Yates was quoted in the select committee as saying you were spoken to, 700 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,780 so... My question is, did you ignore the assistant commissioner of the 701 00:41:29,780 --> 00:41:30,780 Metropolitan Police? 702 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,800 Yeah, sure. Sure, I'll hold. 703 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:40,320 Nick, 02, 40 victims. Now, it's only one. It's only one. When one goes, they 704 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,330 all... Yes, it is. Now, O2 have just confirmed that once they were alerted by 705 00:41:44,330 --> 00:41:46,830 the police, they contacted 40 hacking victims. 706 00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:48,690 I just wondered whether you have a number for us. 707 00:41:49,310 --> 00:41:50,770 Or have you more to hide than them? 708 00:41:51,930 --> 00:41:52,930 Great. 709 00:41:53,630 --> 00:41:54,630 Great. How many? 710 00:41:57,230 --> 00:42:00,550 Do you think you knew any better than broadly the same as O2? 711 00:42:00,890 --> 00:42:02,950 Orange will come back with 45 victims. 712 00:42:03,230 --> 00:42:04,530 Do you want to match that number instead? 713 00:42:06,570 --> 00:42:07,650 No? Right. 714 00:42:08,250 --> 00:42:09,250 Okay. Well... 715 00:42:09,770 --> 00:42:11,330 Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye. 716 00:42:16,450 --> 00:42:17,790 O2, 40 victims. 717 00:42:18,310 --> 00:42:20,890 Vodafone, 40 victims. Orange, 45 victims. 718 00:42:21,430 --> 00:42:24,990 Together with the original eight, that's more than 130 people who had their 719 00:42:24,990 --> 00:42:25,848 phones hacked. 720 00:42:25,850 --> 00:42:27,210 Far more than Yates said. 721 00:42:27,830 --> 00:42:31,290 And this is just the tip of a very, very big iceberg. 722 00:42:33,150 --> 00:42:34,150 Okay. 723 00:42:34,370 --> 00:42:35,370 Let's do it. 724 00:42:40,810 --> 00:42:42,470 This wasn't just Goodman. 725 00:42:43,070 --> 00:42:45,830 This wasn't just the Royals. This was a practice. 726 00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:47,610 This was our foothold. 727 00:42:48,730 --> 00:42:55,130 And yet, even though News International should have been on fire, it once again 728 00:42:55,130 --> 00:42:56,290 barely hit the sides. 729 00:42:58,570 --> 00:43:02,290 And no other newspaper thought it was an important story either. 730 00:43:13,740 --> 00:43:14,740 Good scoop. 731 00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:16,780 The mobile phone company's very good. 732 00:43:17,300 --> 00:43:19,380 Makes me happy to hear you say words like scoop. 733 00:43:20,180 --> 00:43:21,180 Why is that not what you say? 734 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:22,600 Have you ever said you're next? 735 00:43:23,540 --> 00:43:25,980 I think I tried that once or twice when I was a younger man. 736 00:43:26,660 --> 00:43:28,480 It doesn't matter. No one's reporting you. 737 00:43:28,980 --> 00:43:31,140 It doesn't matter what it is. We're just getting frozen out. 738 00:43:32,140 --> 00:43:33,140 So try harder. 739 00:43:33,460 --> 00:43:34,460 What? 740 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,340 Try harder. Stop pussyfooting around. 741 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,460 This is pussy -drugging. I put my paper on the line. I put myself on the line. 742 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,500 You're not nailing people. You're not asking the right questions. Oh, you're a 743 00:43:43,500 --> 00:43:44,500 journalist now. 744 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,600 Why was your Neville email not passed on? 745 00:43:49,740 --> 00:43:54,240 Print the photo on your front page of Assistant Commissioner John Yates and 746 00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:57,080 Rebecca Brute sitting together with the police bravery of her. 747 00:43:57,420 --> 00:43:58,420 They said to go. 748 00:43:58,700 --> 00:43:59,980 Print what she said in Parliament. 749 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,460 We have paid the police for information. 750 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:06,460 And see, that didn't even go halfway to the truth. There's a murky swamp out 751 00:44:06,460 --> 00:44:07,279 there, Nick. 752 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,980 Top tier police and the media. And that needs reporting. 753 00:44:10,220 --> 00:44:12,380 I'm trying to write about all these things. 754 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,840 Unfortunately, it's speculative and libelous. 755 00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:17,300 You need evidence, so do I. 756 00:44:19,220 --> 00:44:20,960 Do you want to help? Give me something concrete. 757 00:44:24,700 --> 00:44:25,700 All right. 758 00:44:25,860 --> 00:44:26,860 I've dug. 759 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,760 The case, the Neville email, the hacking. 760 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,500 That case was given to Specialist Operations. 761 00:44:33,580 --> 00:44:34,379 Terrorist branch. 762 00:44:34,380 --> 00:44:36,480 The boss at the time was a guy called Andy Heyman. 763 00:44:36,980 --> 00:44:37,980 I know that name. 764 00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:43,880 He disappeared from retirement in a puff of smoke and then reappeared. Writing 765 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,960 articles for the Times. That's why I know the name. Exactly. 766 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,380 The press goes through the police like a stick of rock. 767 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,000 In News International. 768 00:44:52,660 --> 00:44:53,760 It's not the worst of them all. 769 00:44:55,220 --> 00:44:56,220 It's still speculative. 770 00:44:57,660 --> 00:44:58,940 Sorry, my friend, I need more. 771 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:41,359 Charlotte. Hi. 772 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:42,360 Tell me some good news. 773 00:45:42,860 --> 00:45:43,860 It's Max. 774 00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:00,360 Max? 775 00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:03,620 Oh, yeah, you brought him. Max, we've got them on the rack. 776 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,840 You settle, the whole thing gets covered up again. 777 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:07,120 You've got them on the rack? 778 00:46:07,380 --> 00:46:08,279 With what? 779 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:09,740 What we need, I can't get. 780 00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:12,700 Stand tall. Be the man who made a difference. 781 00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:14,020 Be the man. 782 00:46:14,780 --> 00:46:15,780 Do you listen to yourself? 783 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,780 This isn't... Please, listen to my advice here. You just want your piece of 784 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:21,660 Oh, your backwards deal. 785 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:23,220 I like to think I'm better than that. 786 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:24,960 No one is better than money. 787 00:46:25,340 --> 00:46:26,340 How much? 788 00:46:28,340 --> 00:46:30,080 Oh, go on. How much? 789 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:31,520 Fuck off. 790 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,480 The Murdochs agreed to pay Clifford more than a million pounds. 791 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:47,440 Some to cover his legal costs. Most in the form of guaranteed income for 792 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,720 he would sell them over the next three years. This meant it could be presented 793 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:52,760 to something other than the payment of damages. 794 00:46:52,980 --> 00:46:54,420 This meant Charlotte didn't get her cut. 795 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:55,820 This meant it wasn't news. 796 00:46:57,500 --> 00:46:58,980 Nobody was fooled, but it was clever. 797 00:47:00,580 --> 00:47:02,220 Our biggest gun was spiked. 798 00:47:09,260 --> 00:47:13,640 as we are joined by the leader of the Liberal Democrat, Nick Clegg, the 799 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,780 Conservative Party leader, David Cameron, and the leader of the Labour 800 00:47:18,020 --> 00:47:19,020 Gordon Brown. 801 00:47:20,620 --> 00:47:24,700 The truth is, power and secrecy walk hand in hand. 802 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:30,400 Power enjoys secrecy because it increases its scope. 803 00:47:31,620 --> 00:47:34,600 Power generates secrecy simply because it can. 804 00:47:36,220 --> 00:47:39,820 Downing Street, Scotland Yard, they're no different to other powerful 805 00:47:39,820 --> 00:47:40,820 organizations. 806 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:47,900 They find secrecy easy, natural, and extremely helpful, regardless of whether 807 00:47:47,900 --> 00:47:51,740 not it may cheat the public of information to which they have a 808 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,380 But here's the thing about power and secrecy. 809 00:47:56,580 --> 00:48:03,080 If you can expose the secrecy, you might, you might, might break 810 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:04,680 the power.