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[haunting music playing]
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{\an8}[woman 1] You know, my dad always said,
"Without family, you have nothing."
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{\an8}[man 1] We had a great family back then.
We all came together.
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{\an8}[woman 1] We all got along.
We were all happy with each other.
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And then Nathan comes.
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Life just changed.
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For everyone, forever.
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[reporter 1] Nathan Carman's mother
is missing and is presumed dead.
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[reporter 2] Lost at sea
during a fishing trip.
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{\an8}[reporter 3]
Nathan is at the center of this.
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Boats don't just drop out from under you
the way he described it.
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[man 2] The middle of the ocean
is not a safe place.
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What had happened
was just a severe accident.
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[ominous music playing]
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[reporter 4] This isn't the first time
tragedy has hit the Carman family.
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[reporter 5] Nathan's grandfather
was found dead in his home
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of a gunshot wound to the head.
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[man 3] The wounds were so severe
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that you can almost barely make out
what could have caused it.
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I said, "Whoever killed him is probably
sitting in this room right now."
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I have a problem with you.
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You were the last one
to see your grandfather.
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Right off the bat, there should not
have been an interrogation.
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People on the autism spectrum
are frequently misinterpreted.
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You know, if you're different,
you're probably bad.
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{\an8}[man 4] Nathan was seen
as the low-hanging fruit.
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The easy mark.
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All this happened because of greed.
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Because of one person's greed.
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[man 5] According to the government,
he planned all this.
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It's beyond crazy.
Might as well say he murdered Kennedy.
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[woman 1] This whole situation
is just one big Greek tragedy.
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{\an8}[music fades]
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{\an8}I-I've asked myself,
did I do the right thing?
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{\an8}I know at the time what I was thinking
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was I-I need to keep my mom occupied
while I'm trying to fix the problem.
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[water lapping]
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[prosecutor] Did you have an argument
with your mother on the boat?
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No.
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-[prosecutor] Have a fight on the boat?
-No.
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[prosecutor]
Did you kill your mother on the boat?
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No.
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[prosecutor] Did you sink the boat
after you killed your mother?
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Objection. Compound question.
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[haunting music playing]
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{\an8}[reporter 6] The search continues
for two missing boaters
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{\an8}off the coast of Rhode Island...
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[reporter 7] An update now on
a mother and son who haven't been seen
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since they left South Kingstown
on Saturday on a fishing trip.
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Tonight, the Coast Guard says...
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[man 6] The Coast Guard received a call
that there was an overdue vessel
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in South Kingstown, Rhode Island.
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Nathan Carman and his mom, Linda,
had decided to go fishing
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in an area south of Block Island.
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{\an8}When they didn't return,
there was concern about them.
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{\an8}Uh, significant concern.
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[reporter 8] The Coast Guard says
54-year-old Linda Carman
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and her 22-year-old son Nathan
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left and never returned
from a fishing trip
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near Block Island on Sunday.
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[woman 2] They would go
on all these fishing trips,
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{\an8}and just like any other time,
they were gonna ship out of Rhode Island,
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{\an8}the... the marina there.
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She thought they'd be back
the next day around noon.
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[text message whooshes]
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Linda was supposed to call me
around 12:00, one o'clock.
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Between 4:00 and 5:00,
I realized she hadn't called.
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So I said, "This isn't right."
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So I called the police.
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I guess the Coast Guard
called me after that,
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and I gave them the information,
and they started the search right away.
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[reporter 9] The Coast Guard searched
the waters off Block Island
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and then Long Island,
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meticulously combing
62,000 square nautical miles,
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an area larger than the state of Georgia.
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[Eric] We had negative results on day one.
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[reporter 10]
Coast Guard expanded search...
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[Eric] Day two.
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-Hoping to find a mother and son.
-[Eric] Day three.
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[reporter 11] There is still no sign
of Linda and Nathan Carman
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or their boat, the Chicken Pox.
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[Eric] Day four. Day five.
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[reporter 12]
They've expanded their search
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to an 11,000-mile area off Montauk.
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After six days, the search is called off.
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[melancholy music playing]
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But you can't just stop searching.
That-that... that really upset me.
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And we just kind of had a little vigil
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to hopefully wait for her.
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You know, news that she was found.
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[pensive music playing]
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[reporter 9] On Sunday afternoon,
a remarkable development.
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The US Coast Guard
says a freighter spotted Carman
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floating alone in a life raft,
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100 nautical miles
south of Martha's Vineyard.
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[pensive music continues]
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[Coast Guard] Nathan, this is
United States Coast Guard Boston.
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[Nathan] Hello? Yes, I hear you.
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[Coast Guard] Uh, yes, sir.
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I-I... I need to understand what happened.
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[Nathan] There was a funny noise
in the engine compartment.
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I looked and saw a lot of water.
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Boat just dropped out from under my feet.
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When I saw the life raft,
I did not see my mom.
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Uh, have you found her?
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[reporter 13] Of the two boaters missing,
only one came back alive.
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[reporter 14] Carman's mother
remains missing and is presumed dead.
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{\an8}I would just like to thank the public, uh,
for their prayers and for their concern
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{\an8}for both my mother and for myself.
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I'm... feel healthy.
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Uh, emotionally,
I've been through a huge amount.
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{\an8}He's, uh, lost a little weight,
but other than that, he's doing well.
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[Clark, present day]
When I went and picked him up,
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I got my arms around him,
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{\an8}and I think he put his arms
over my shoulders.
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{\an8}And, uh, I didn't want to let go.
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Nathan wanted to go to his house.
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He wanted to be by himself,
which did not surprise me.
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You could tell,
even though he's not verbalizing it,
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the inability to have saved her,
I think, was riding on him immensely.
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[reporter 15] For the first time,
we are seeing Nathan's rescue
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from the perspective of the crew.
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It's an amazing survival story.
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[reporter 16] This is pretty remarkable.
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He was on the sea for seven days
in a four-person inflatable life raft.
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He had some food and water...
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{\an8}Most people would think,
"I'm gonna die out here."
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{\an8}And... and the way that I handled that
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{\an8}was to focus on, uh,
what I had to do in order to survive.
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[intense percussive music playing]
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After the first day,
I tried to regiment myself.
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Food packs said to eat four per day,
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and so I was spacing that out
throughout the day.
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I was trying to focus
on keeping myself hydrated.
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I did spot the Orient Lucky around midday.
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[music fades out]
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[man 7] As a writer,
I found Nathan's story really intriguing.
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{\an8}I live near the ocean, you know,
live along the coast of New England,
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{\an8}and, you know, for a lot of us
in these coastal communities,
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that's sort of like our backyard.
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People thought, "This poor young man,
lost his mom at sea."
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It was this heroic survival story,
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and it was a real feel-good story.
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But then the public sentiment
started to shift
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from, "Wow, this is an amazing,
miraculous survival story,"
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to, "This doesn't seem right."
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[reporter] The captain of the cargo ship
that saved Nathan Carman
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says the 22-year-old
seemed healthy when he was rescued
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and did not appear to be suffering
from dehydration, hypothermia,
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or anything else.
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[Eric] Circumstances like this
don't happen very frequently.
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I mean, seven days in a life raft,
floating at the continental shelf,
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that does not happen frequently at all.
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In my 26-year career,
this is the first one.
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This is a picture of Nathan
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after he jumped out of the life raft
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into probably 7,000 feet of water,
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and he's able to kick and swim
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to the life ring that's lowered to him,
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and he's able to hold on to it,
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and then he's able to get up
onto the accommodation ladder, which...
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No way.
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[pensive music playing]
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[Clark] A very difficult situation.
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Um... none of us really know
what he went through.
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[Clark, present day] Him being a suspect,
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most of that is due
to their lack of ability
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to discern his demeanor as autistic.
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Because of his autism,
because of his ability to be alone,
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Nathan, of any individual that I know,
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could have coped with being lost at sea.
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And I'm sure he used all his ingenuity
in those eight days.
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[foreboding music playing]
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[man 8] Prior to Nathan returning,
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we actually executed a warrant
at Nathan's house
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{\an8}to try to determine where they were going,
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{\an8}what their intention was
going on this trip,
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{\an8}um, and really trying to find out
if, uh, Nathan had any intent
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to do any harm to himself or his mother.
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We searched his house and his vehicle.
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We found some concerning documents.
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This one's titled, "Why I Am Reluctant
to Cooperate with the Police."
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"Emotionally, I'm not sure
that I can bear another interview."
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Then he goes on to say, "Philosophically,
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the idea of proving one's innocence
repels me."
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The next is,
"Generally, the police are a corrupt
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and often criminal organization."
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It's unusual.
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I have to say, in all my experience,
I've never come across anything like that.
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It further confirmed our suspicions
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that he had
some type of, you know, ill will
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upon departing
on that fishing trip with his mother.
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Myself and another investigator,
we meet with him.
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Very surprisingly,
he agreed to speak to me.
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[tape recorder clicks]
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[Alfred, on recording]
Take me through what happened.
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[Nathan] Sure.
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My mom and I went to Stop and Shop,
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uh, and I got, uh, something to drink.
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We drove to the parking lot
at Ram Point Marina.
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We loaded the cooler
from the back of my truck
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with the bait in it onto the boat.
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[Alfred, present day] Nathan had mentioned
he had bought bait, things of that nature.
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He did buy eels.
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Uh, we found eels
used for fishing in his truck,
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which is, you know,
obviously interesting and concerning to us
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00:12:21,323 --> 00:12:23,635
because if he intended
to use the eels to go fishing,
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why'd he leave the bait in his truck,
not bring it on the boat?
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[on recording] What time
did you leave the marina?
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00:12:29,832 --> 00:12:32,835
[Nathan] I think we left the marina
around midnight.
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[Alfred] After you headed out,
you decided to change the plan
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and go to the Canyons, correct?
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[Nathan] That's correct.
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[Alfred] And that's
a much longer trip, right?
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00:12:46,432 --> 00:12:48,910
{\an8}[Nathan] Yes, going to Block Canyon
is a much longer trip
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{\an8}than going to the vicinity
of Block Island.
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[mysterious music playing]
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[Eric] The decision to go
another 60 to 70 miles offshore
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is not a place
for an inexperienced boater.
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00:13:05,034 --> 00:13:10,748
It's not something that you do without
a tremendous amount of preparation.
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[Alfred, on recording] When did you notice
that the Chicken Pox was taking on water?
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[Nathan] The engine
sounded different to me.
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And I opened the hatch
forward of the pilot house,
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um, and observed
a large quantity of water in the bilge.
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[Alfred] Did you do
a radio distress signal?
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[Nathan] No, I did not.
I didn't think we were going to sink.
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If you know you're sinking,
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you always get on the radio
and say, "Distress."
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But I knew that a distress signal
wouldn't reach shore.
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[Alfred] But it would reach other boats.
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[Nathan] I didn't know if there were
any other boats in range, so I...
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[Alfred] You didn't try?
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[Eric] If something bad could happen,
234
00:13:59,088 --> 00:14:01,590
why not call for assistance on your radio?
235
00:14:03,259 --> 00:14:07,847
The lack of things that were done
raised questions.
236
00:14:08,973 --> 00:14:11,392
There's something more to the story here.
237
00:14:14,812 --> 00:14:20,401
I knew what had happened
was just a severe accident, and, uh...
238
00:14:21,735 --> 00:14:26,240
I know if Nathan had the ability,
he would have saved his mother.
239
00:14:32,121 --> 00:14:34,558
I'm very grateful
to the friends and family,
240
00:14:34,582 --> 00:14:37,769
uh, who attended in memory of my mom.
241
00:14:37,793 --> 00:14:40,272
[reporter] Are you sad
your aunts didn't show up?
242
00:14:40,296 --> 00:14:41,565
I wish very much
243
00:14:41,589 --> 00:14:44,442
that my whole family
could have come together,
244
00:14:44,466 --> 00:14:46,468
uh, to pray for my mom.
245
00:14:47,428 --> 00:14:48,512
Uh...
246
00:14:49,221 --> 00:14:53,326
But I made sure that they were invited
and that they had an opportunity to come.
247
00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:54,953
[reporter] Have police told you anything
248
00:14:54,977 --> 00:14:59,040
about the status
of the investigation in Rhode Island?
249
00:14:59,064 --> 00:15:06,113
Uh, I... I wish desperately,
uh, that, uh, my mom was rescued.
250
00:15:06,697 --> 00:15:08,550
Uh, I hope that she will be found.
251
00:15:08,574 --> 00:15:10,969
[reporter] Tell us about
your relationship with her.
252
00:15:10,993 --> 00:15:13,680
-Now I'm gonna drive off.
-[reporter] What about your grandfather?
253
00:15:13,704 --> 00:15:15,664
-I need to close my door.
-[reporter] Okay.
254
00:15:17,207 --> 00:15:18,792
Nathan, take care.
255
00:15:20,544 --> 00:15:22,963
No one called me from the family.
256
00:15:24,298 --> 00:15:28,403
None of the three sisters,
none of the cousins.
257
00:15:28,427 --> 00:15:30,095
Did not hear from a soul.
258
00:15:31,138 --> 00:15:35,994
They felt Nathan
had murdered their sister.
259
00:15:36,018 --> 00:15:39,956
[uneasy music playing]
260
00:15:39,980 --> 00:15:42,983
{\an8}He killed our sister, his own mother.
261
00:15:44,151 --> 00:15:47,047
{\an8}So, yeah, we didn't...
we didn't want anything to do with him.
262
00:15:47,071 --> 00:15:51,009
It was a horrid thing,
just totally horrendous,
263
00:15:51,033 --> 00:15:52,385
what happened to our family.
264
00:15:52,409 --> 00:15:55,955
This whole situation's
just one big Greek tragedy.
265
00:15:58,540 --> 00:16:01,168
[intriguing string music playing]
266
00:16:05,547 --> 00:16:07,633
[Charlene] My parents had four daughters.
267
00:16:09,385 --> 00:16:10,612
Elaine was older.
268
00:16:10,636 --> 00:16:12,656
Valerie was the youngest.
269
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,767
And I was two years younger than Linda.
270
00:16:17,351 --> 00:16:19,478
Linda and I were extremely close.
271
00:16:20,229 --> 00:16:23,416
We hung out a lot,
and I had a lot of fun with her.
272
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,402
[nostalgic music playing]
273
00:16:27,027 --> 00:16:29,113
We were always there for each other.
274
00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:31,657
We all took care of each other.
275
00:16:32,533 --> 00:16:34,702
It was a great childhood.
276
00:16:36,870 --> 00:16:39,999
Linda was fun. She was very athletic.
277
00:16:41,125 --> 00:16:42,811
She was very much like my father.
278
00:16:42,835 --> 00:16:46,213
{\an8}[laughing] My father was...
he was hardheaded.
279
00:16:47,172 --> 00:16:49,967
{\an8}And Linda was also hardheaded.
280
00:16:50,801 --> 00:16:56,074
She had 100% of the Greek personality.
281
00:16:56,098 --> 00:16:57,909
[laughing]
282
00:16:57,933 --> 00:17:01,854
-[pleasant music playing]
-[people laughing, cheering]
283
00:17:03,397 --> 00:17:05,750
[man 1] John Chakalos was my uncle.
284
00:17:05,774 --> 00:17:08,336
He was pretty much a force of nature.
285
00:17:08,360 --> 00:17:10,112
{\an8}He was a guy that...
286
00:17:11,238 --> 00:17:13,407
{\an8}He... he was... he was bigger than life.
287
00:17:14,575 --> 00:17:16,636
Worked hard his whole life.
288
00:17:16,660 --> 00:17:18,805
He started different businesses,
289
00:17:18,829 --> 00:17:22,666
developed a lot of properties,
built nursing homes, assisted living.
290
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:26,545
After that,
it was one right after the other.
291
00:17:30,507 --> 00:17:34,112
[Charlene] As we got older,
we got a large house in New Hampshire.
292
00:17:34,136 --> 00:17:35,655
It was grand.
293
00:17:35,679 --> 00:17:37,949
It was 20,000 square feet.
294
00:17:37,973 --> 00:17:40,768
We had an indoor, huge swimming pool.
295
00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:44,706
[Chuck] One summer,
he had elephants there.
296
00:17:44,730 --> 00:17:46,190
It was out of this world.
297
00:17:47,399 --> 00:17:50,879
[Charlene] Really, it was at that point
298
00:17:50,903 --> 00:17:54,782
that I was like,
"Wow, you know, we have money."
299
00:17:59,286 --> 00:18:01,431
[woman 3] Linda was my best friend.
300
00:18:01,455 --> 00:18:05,125
I knew her for over 30 years.
301
00:18:05,876 --> 00:18:08,962
{\an8}We... talked about everything.
302
00:18:10,672 --> 00:18:14,402
I heard so much
about her background over time.
303
00:18:14,426 --> 00:18:17,096
All the relationships
were very dysfunctional,
304
00:18:17,596 --> 00:18:21,391
and her father was extremely controlling.
305
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,706
So she said,
"I'm going to move to California."
306
00:18:26,730 --> 00:18:31,586
And he said, "Well, if you do,
then I'm disowning you."
307
00:18:31,610 --> 00:18:33,612
She goes, "Okay." And she went.
308
00:18:34,696 --> 00:18:36,031
{\an8}She was tough.
309
00:18:36,698 --> 00:18:39,385
{\an8}When I met her,
she was in the National Guard,
310
00:18:39,409 --> 00:18:44,849
and she has three sisters back home
that are the complete opposite.
311
00:18:44,873 --> 00:18:48,001
And here's Linda, and she just broke away.
312
00:18:49,837 --> 00:18:52,840
[Clark] I met Linda out in California.
313
00:18:53,340 --> 00:18:57,553
She was happy most of the time,
except when dealing with family.
314
00:18:58,846 --> 00:19:01,515
Took us a while, but we got married.
315
00:19:02,724 --> 00:19:06,913
Her father, John,
had promised if we moved back,
316
00:19:06,937 --> 00:19:12,127
he would develop
a Dunkin' Donuts franchise for us.
317
00:19:12,151 --> 00:19:16,071
When we got back there, he reneged.
318
00:19:17,322 --> 00:19:20,468
So she ended up
having to work for her father,
319
00:19:20,492 --> 00:19:24,913
which was not a good situation
between those two.
320
00:19:25,914 --> 00:19:27,851
That's how he operated.
321
00:19:27,875 --> 00:19:29,394
[uneasy music playing]
322
00:19:29,418 --> 00:19:32,438
He liked to control lives,
especially his daughters'.
323
00:19:32,462 --> 00:19:33,839
All four of them.
324
00:19:35,299 --> 00:19:37,801
He liked to control everything.
325
00:19:43,557 --> 00:19:45,827
Linda's fought with her father
her whole life.
326
00:19:45,851 --> 00:19:47,871
Back and forth, back and forth.
327
00:19:47,895 --> 00:19:49,897
Because they were a lot alike.
328
00:19:51,023 --> 00:19:52,983
[Clark] John was very volatile.
329
00:19:53,775 --> 00:20:00,449
I had never experienced
violence like that in a family situation.
330
00:20:00,949 --> 00:20:02,409
He would, uh...
331
00:20:03,452 --> 00:20:08,683
physically push or, or slap or...
332
00:20:08,707 --> 00:20:12,419
To his wife, to his daughters.
333
00:20:13,754 --> 00:20:17,633
That was a constant
in the Chakalos family.
334
00:20:19,259 --> 00:20:22,572
Arguments, yeah. Occasional fist fights.
335
00:20:22,596 --> 00:20:25,366
Which, you know,
is not normal in most families,
336
00:20:25,390 --> 00:20:27,619
but hey, they weren't killing each other.
337
00:20:27,643 --> 00:20:29,728
None of them went to the hospital.
338
00:20:32,606 --> 00:20:34,608
[ominous music playing]
339
00:20:36,443 --> 00:20:40,673
{\an8}[police officer]
Friday, December 20, 2013, 1335 hours.
340
00:20:40,697 --> 00:20:42,425
{\an8}Central District Major Crime
341
00:20:42,449 --> 00:20:46,512
is at the scene
of the John Chakalos residence.
342
00:20:46,536 --> 00:20:48,473
[reporter] It is a dark holiday season.
343
00:20:48,497 --> 00:20:50,808
Early Friday morning
in Windsor, Connecticut,
344
00:20:50,832 --> 00:20:53,686
87-year-old John Chakalos was found dead
345
00:20:53,710 --> 00:20:56,105
from an apparent gunshot wound
to the head.
346
00:20:56,129 --> 00:20:59,150
Investigators are calling it a homicide.
347
00:20:59,174 --> 00:21:01,986
[Clark] Elaine was the eldest.
348
00:21:02,010 --> 00:21:06,139
Walked in and found him, um,
349
00:21:06,974 --> 00:21:09,017
literally executed in his bed.
350
00:21:11,728 --> 00:21:13,665
[man 3] I'm gonna tell you,
it's a horror show.
351
00:21:13,689 --> 00:21:15,148
It's definitely a horror show.
352
00:21:16,608 --> 00:21:18,026
The wounds were so severe
353
00:21:18,610 --> 00:21:21,822
{\an8}that you can almost barely
make out what could have caused it.
354
00:21:24,908 --> 00:21:27,202
You could tell
there was no struggle that went on.
355
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,747
It was basically
the victim lying in the bed,
356
00:21:31,665 --> 00:21:33,208
gunshots were to the head.
357
00:21:35,460 --> 00:21:37,063
[Chuck] The top of his head was blown off,
358
00:21:37,087 --> 00:21:42,193
and his brain scattered all over
the back of the headboard on the wall.
359
00:21:42,217 --> 00:21:45,655
It was... it was beyond belief.
360
00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:49,242
It was beyond belief
that the man that I knew my whole life,
361
00:21:49,266 --> 00:21:52,161
that was larger than life,
and that was... [clears throat]
362
00:21:52,185 --> 00:21:54,521
That he was actually dead.
363
00:21:57,941 --> 00:22:00,068
[Charlene] It was just terrible.
364
00:22:00,652 --> 00:22:03,405
My father always
did everything for the family.
365
00:22:04,406 --> 00:22:06,658
My dad always said,
"Without family, you have nothing."
366
00:22:07,576 --> 00:22:09,411
And now he was gone.
367
00:22:10,829 --> 00:22:14,333
[Chuck] And then everybody
was trying to figure out, "Who did it?"
368
00:22:16,293 --> 00:22:20,422
[detective] Sit over there
and we'll look through this.
369
00:22:25,302 --> 00:22:27,054
Thank you for coming up.
370
00:22:27,804 --> 00:22:28,804
Yeah.
371
00:22:29,556 --> 00:22:31,576
[Linda Gam] She told me
what she thought happened.
372
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:37,332
She said, um, "I definitely think
that it was a Mob hit."
373
00:22:37,356 --> 00:22:39,000
[mysterious music playing]
374
00:22:39,024 --> 00:22:41,336
[Mark] One avenue was,
because he was in construction,
375
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:44,297
construction is sometimes
linked to organized crime,
376
00:22:44,321 --> 00:22:47,925
and he dealt with some
pretty shady characters.
377
00:22:47,949 --> 00:22:52,204
[Charlene] My dad was pretty hardheaded.
He was a, you know, shrewd businessman.
378
00:22:52,704 --> 00:22:56,309
When you're a self-made millionaire,
or whatever you want to call my dad,
379
00:22:56,333 --> 00:22:58,686
you know,
I'm sure he's stepped on a lot of toes.
380
00:22:58,710 --> 00:23:01,272
[music intensifies]
381
00:23:01,296 --> 00:23:04,091
[Mark] We're getting things
back from the lab, and we're verifying
382
00:23:04,674 --> 00:23:06,861
that the murder weapon
was a large-caliber weapon.
383
00:23:06,885 --> 00:23:08,154
[camera shutter clicking]
384
00:23:08,178 --> 00:23:10,823
Usually if it's someone
that's doing a hit,
385
00:23:10,847 --> 00:23:12,575
it's a smaller-caliber weapon.
386
00:23:12,599 --> 00:23:14,309
They don't want to make a lot of noise.
387
00:23:14,935 --> 00:23:17,437
Large-caliber weapon makes a lot of noise.
388
00:23:18,105 --> 00:23:21,292
And also, they don't usually
come to someone's house.
389
00:23:21,316 --> 00:23:23,503
Usually, you disappear.
390
00:23:23,527 --> 00:23:25,380
[intriguing music playing]
391
00:23:25,404 --> 00:23:29,300
Now we're verifying that this crime
that we believe is a break-in,
392
00:23:29,324 --> 00:23:32,678
it's not a break-in
for the purposes of taking anything.
393
00:23:32,702 --> 00:23:37,040
It's a break-in
for purposes of doing harm to John.
394
00:23:38,458 --> 00:23:40,919
Now we come to, "Who else?"
395
00:23:41,586 --> 00:23:44,065
Who else has intimate details of him?
396
00:23:44,089 --> 00:23:45,215
His family.
397
00:23:46,633 --> 00:23:48,903
[young Charlene] Daddy, I need some money!
398
00:23:48,927 --> 00:23:51,388
-[people laughing]
-Daddy!
399
00:23:53,515 --> 00:23:55,493
[Charlene, present day]
My dad had a living trust,
400
00:23:55,517 --> 00:24:00,123
so we, the four of us, would get
the same amount of money each month.
401
00:24:00,147 --> 00:24:06,754
Each girl was receiving, I would say,
approximately $25,000 a month,
402
00:24:06,778 --> 00:24:12,510
notwithstanding what they would inherit
if he should pass away.
403
00:24:12,534 --> 00:24:15,412
[somber music playing]
404
00:24:23,503 --> 00:24:24,689
[Chuck] After the funeral,
405
00:24:24,713 --> 00:24:28,651
we all went to Valerie and Larry's house
in West Hartford after that,
406
00:24:28,675 --> 00:24:31,279
and they had cops outside
407
00:24:31,303 --> 00:24:34,907
just in case anybody was gonna come,
you know, and attack the family.
408
00:24:34,931 --> 00:24:38,995
And I'm sitting at the dinner table,
and we're drinking coffee,
409
00:24:39,019 --> 00:24:42,248
all the food's gone, and I'm sitting there
looking out the window,
410
00:24:42,272 --> 00:24:45,835
and I go,
"You know, these cops are sitting outside
411
00:24:45,859 --> 00:24:48,671
"trying to protect us
from somebody out there," but I said,
412
00:24:48,695 --> 00:24:51,573
"Whoever killed him is probably
sitting in this room right now."
413
00:24:54,242 --> 00:24:57,930
{\an8}[detective] You know, and that's when
Nathan became a very prominent person,
414
00:24:57,954 --> 00:25:00,999
{\an8}because he was the last to see him
the night before.
415
00:25:02,626 --> 00:25:03,835
How's Nathan doing?
416
00:25:05,212 --> 00:25:06,772
-Very upset.
-Yeah.
417
00:25:06,796 --> 00:25:08,608
Very like it's not real.
418
00:25:08,632 --> 00:25:09,716
[Scott] Mm-hmm.
419
00:25:10,467 --> 00:25:14,864
There's no way Nathan
would ever do that to his grandfather.
420
00:25:14,888 --> 00:25:17,366
I mean, he adored his grandfather.
421
00:25:17,390 --> 00:25:22,205
And they both loved each other.
I mean, you could see it from day one.
422
00:25:22,229 --> 00:25:24,314
[tender music playing]
423
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:33,007
Nathan was the firstborn grandson
of a Greek dynasty, if you will.
424
00:25:33,031 --> 00:25:34,759
[baby Nathan fussing]
425
00:25:34,783 --> 00:25:37,553
You don't like it that way.
How come? Oh my!
426
00:25:37,577 --> 00:25:40,556
-[Linda Carman] Yeah, sometimes he does.
-[John's wife] Stand up, John.
427
00:25:40,580 --> 00:25:44,793
[Clark] From the beginning,
Nathan was number one in Grandpa's eyes.
428
00:25:46,419 --> 00:25:49,965
He doted on Nathan his whole life,
429
00:25:50,882 --> 00:25:53,319
and also interfered his whole life.
430
00:25:53,343 --> 00:25:54,612
[indistinct chattering]
431
00:25:54,636 --> 00:25:56,916
-[John] Whack it hard.
-[John's wife] I'll find a stick.
432
00:25:58,598 --> 00:26:02,286
-[John] Okay, watch it.
-[Linda Carman] It's hit!
433
00:26:02,310 --> 00:26:04,747
-Hit him in the nose.
-That thing's...
434
00:26:04,771 --> 00:26:05,873
That's the problem.
435
00:26:05,897 --> 00:26:06,999
Yeah.
436
00:26:07,023 --> 00:26:09,919
[Linda Carman] There you go, Nathan!
Keep going!
437
00:26:09,943 --> 00:26:15,258
He was first diagnosed with autism
when he was about four or five.
438
00:26:15,282 --> 00:26:17,385
[Linda Carman] Nathan, say hi!
439
00:26:17,409 --> 00:26:20,912
Hi!
440
00:26:22,247 --> 00:26:26,936
[Clark] We initially had testing done
'cause we didn't know what it really was.
441
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,755
It was not in the mainstream
the way it is today.
442
00:26:32,257 --> 00:26:33,818
[Linda Carman] Proud of you.
443
00:26:33,842 --> 00:26:35,778
-[Charlene] Good job.
-[Linda Carman] Good job.
444
00:26:35,802 --> 00:26:38,406
[instructor] Right out there
with Rachel. Good.
445
00:26:38,430 --> 00:26:43,727
[Clark] Nathan loved horses
since the first time he got on one.
446
00:26:44,603 --> 00:26:48,064
Eventually, Linda bought him Cruise.
447
00:26:48,982 --> 00:26:51,109
He fell in love with that horse.
448
00:26:52,235 --> 00:26:54,046
It became his best friend
449
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:57,198
because he didn't really
have any other friends.
450
00:26:59,743 --> 00:27:02,888
[Charlene] It did hurt Linda
Nathan didn't have friends,
451
00:27:02,912 --> 00:27:04,289
and that he was different.
452
00:27:05,332 --> 00:27:09,395
[Clark] Psychiatrists helped to an extent,
453
00:27:09,419 --> 00:27:13,381
but lots of times,
there was interference from the family.
454
00:27:15,550 --> 00:27:18,362
[Charlene] Everyone was perfect
in my dad's eyes,
455
00:27:18,386 --> 00:27:19,905
and, uh, Nathan was fine.
456
00:27:19,929 --> 00:27:21,765
"Oh, he'll be fine. He'll be fine."
457
00:27:23,308 --> 00:27:24,726
[Linda Gam] John was old school.
458
00:27:25,268 --> 00:27:29,689
John did not understand
why Nathan needed help.
459
00:27:30,398 --> 00:27:32,335
And they used
to get in arguments about it.
460
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,236
"Why do you need to take him there?
Why do you need to do this?"
461
00:27:36,446 --> 00:27:38,424
[Linda Carman] Don't... don't even start.
462
00:27:38,448 --> 00:27:42,952
Don't even... You weren't invited.
You weren't invited. You weren't invited.
463
00:27:43,745 --> 00:27:48,917
[Linda Gam] She didn't want him
to have that much influence over Nathan.
464
00:27:49,417 --> 00:27:52,295
But as time went on,
that's exactly what happened.
465
00:27:53,797 --> 00:27:56,817
What about with you and your dad?
Any issues with him?
466
00:27:56,841 --> 00:27:59,844
No. And see, once in a while
things would come up.
467
00:28:00,345 --> 00:28:03,515
I'd tell him, "I'm not gonna have
this conversation with you."
468
00:28:04,015 --> 00:28:08,579
"I will have it with an attorney
or a therapist in the room."
469
00:28:08,603 --> 00:28:13,292
"I'm not gonna discuss these things
one-on-one because I know where it goes."
470
00:28:13,316 --> 00:28:15,920
"We get angry, and one of us storms out."
471
00:28:15,944 --> 00:28:18,571
You know?
And, of course, nothing gets accomplished.
472
00:28:19,322 --> 00:28:22,843
He just seemed like a guy
who didn't like no for an answer.
473
00:28:22,867 --> 00:28:25,763
-Right. Yeah.
-Or get his way. You know?
474
00:28:25,787 --> 00:28:27,431
Meaning good, but, I mean...
475
00:28:27,455 --> 00:28:31,251
His heart was always in the right place.
It was the way he went about it.
476
00:28:35,588 --> 00:28:38,526
{\an8}[Lisa] There had been some question
as to Linda's whereabouts
477
00:28:38,550 --> 00:28:41,278
during the window of the time
that the homicide would have occurred.
478
00:28:41,302 --> 00:28:47,076
You mentioned, um, you had a conversation
with your dad the night, uh, before.
479
00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:47,993
[Linda] Mm-hmm.
480
00:28:48,017 --> 00:28:53,249
Uh, so going on that, I mean,
the best you can, in your own words,
481
00:28:53,273 --> 00:28:57,461
the last time you talked to him,
and try to, you know, work back to the...
482
00:28:57,485 --> 00:28:59,880
Was it a couple of days in between?
483
00:28:59,904 --> 00:29:02,049
No, it was... Matter of fact, I can...
484
00:29:02,073 --> 00:29:05,302
I don't know if I called
on my cell phone or my house phone.
485
00:29:05,326 --> 00:29:06,411
Um...
486
00:29:07,454 --> 00:29:09,557
It was... it was pretty much a daily thing.
487
00:29:09,581 --> 00:29:10,599
[Scott] Okay.
488
00:29:10,623 --> 00:29:13,185
[Lisa] We were able
to get location history
489
00:29:13,209 --> 00:29:15,980
from various cell phone providers.
490
00:29:16,004 --> 00:29:18,899
Linda was exactly
where she told police that she was.
491
00:29:18,923 --> 00:29:20,842
Linda could not have killed John.
492
00:29:22,761 --> 00:29:24,071
Have a seat.
493
00:29:24,095 --> 00:29:25,197
Nathan.
494
00:29:25,221 --> 00:29:27,533
-Thanks for coming in.
-Want a water or something?
495
00:29:27,557 --> 00:29:28,826
Yes, please.
496
00:29:28,850 --> 00:29:29,893
Right here.
497
00:29:34,898 --> 00:29:36,584
-How are you?
-All right.
498
00:29:36,608 --> 00:29:37,608
Good.
499
00:29:38,151 --> 00:29:40,129
[Mark] When he came in our lobby,
500
00:29:40,153 --> 00:29:43,215
we get to talking,
he introduces himself, I introduce myself,
501
00:29:43,239 --> 00:29:46,034
and then he start to kind of...
502
00:29:46,910 --> 00:29:51,474
break down and cry,
and get kind of a little out of control.
503
00:29:51,498 --> 00:29:54,083
And then he says, he blurts out,
504
00:29:54,584 --> 00:29:56,395
"How can I calm down
505
00:29:56,419 --> 00:30:01,549
when I just found out
my grandfather got his head blown off?"
506
00:30:02,342 --> 00:30:04,695
And the mother
finally got to calm him down,
507
00:30:04,719 --> 00:30:06,697
but that statement kind of struck me
508
00:30:06,721 --> 00:30:10,183
because who of our investigative team
let that out?
509
00:30:11,059 --> 00:30:12,453
No one ever let that out.
510
00:30:12,477 --> 00:30:14,497
When you received the phone call,
511
00:30:14,521 --> 00:30:20,169
did she share the manner of death
in which your grandfather passed?
512
00:30:20,193 --> 00:30:24,465
I still don't know the manner of death
from which my grandfather passed.
513
00:30:24,489 --> 00:30:29,303
Obviously, from the circumstances,
that the way you seem to be treating this,
514
00:30:29,327 --> 00:30:32,681
it's either a murder or suicide
is what I deduce.
515
00:30:32,705 --> 00:30:36,727
Uh, but I know
that you're calling it suspicious,
516
00:30:36,751 --> 00:30:38,813
because that's what Valerie said.
517
00:30:38,837 --> 00:30:43,508
Uh, but no, she just said that he passed,
as far as I recall.
518
00:30:44,425 --> 00:30:47,154
[Scott] I've been interviewing people
for my entire career,
519
00:30:47,178 --> 00:30:49,782
and always felt I was pretty good at it.
520
00:30:49,806 --> 00:30:51,242
You look for emotion,
521
00:30:51,266 --> 00:30:54,411
and you look for things
that you know you have the right person,
522
00:30:54,435 --> 00:30:55,621
type of thing.
523
00:30:55,645 --> 00:30:59,917
And with Nathan, he didn't get...
You didn't get the normal reads.
524
00:30:59,941 --> 00:31:04,296
Did you ever... Did he ever ask you
to get money out of the drawer...?
525
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,716
Yes, uh... when I... when I moved.
526
00:31:07,740 --> 00:31:09,301
He's the only person I ever knew
527
00:31:09,325 --> 00:31:12,054
who would yell at me
for not asking for money.
528
00:31:12,078 --> 00:31:15,164
He... [stammering]
529
00:31:15,874 --> 00:31:17,434
He was very generous...
530
00:31:17,458 --> 00:31:20,396
[Mark] The hair
on the back of my neck raised.
531
00:31:20,420 --> 00:31:21,772
In other words,
532
00:31:21,796 --> 00:31:25,466
my meter was going off that this guy's...
533
00:31:26,259 --> 00:31:28,428
He... he may be a player in this.
534
00:31:29,512 --> 00:31:31,472
His affect isn't right.
535
00:31:32,390 --> 00:31:35,369
And throughout all
of whatever challenges he has,
536
00:31:35,393 --> 00:31:38,980
through autism or whatever,
his affect isn't right.
537
00:31:40,148 --> 00:31:43,752
[woman 4] Right off the bat, there should
not have been an interrogation.
538
00:31:43,776 --> 00:31:46,213
He never should have been
in that room to begin with
539
00:31:46,237 --> 00:31:51,576
{\an8}because people on the autism spectrum
are frequently misinterpreted.
540
00:31:52,702 --> 00:31:58,642
Nathan was talking
in very, very stilted terms,
541
00:31:58,666 --> 00:32:02,646
and he responded in a way
that was not only robotic,
542
00:32:02,670 --> 00:32:06,233
but, because he was giving
detail after detail,
543
00:32:06,257 --> 00:32:09,153
almost seemed cold and calculating.
544
00:32:09,177 --> 00:32:12,615
That, in the eyes of some law enforcement,
545
00:32:12,639 --> 00:32:15,975
may be, if you will,
a tell that they're guilty.
546
00:32:17,435 --> 00:32:20,122
I really don't like
speaking against my mom.
547
00:32:20,146 --> 00:32:21,874
I don't think that she would ever
548
00:32:21,898 --> 00:32:25,586
have anything to do
with whatever happened to my grandfather.
549
00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:29,173
Uh, but she did tell me on one occasion,
550
00:32:29,197 --> 00:32:31,967
I don't think she used
the explicit word "hate,"
551
00:32:31,991 --> 00:32:33,969
uh, but said some things.
552
00:32:33,993 --> 00:32:37,830
I asked, "Does that mean you hate him?"
And she clearly indicated yes.
553
00:32:38,539 --> 00:32:39,582
Oh shit.
554
00:32:40,291 --> 00:32:43,187
But I... I really don't like
speaking against my mom.
555
00:32:43,211 --> 00:32:46,190
-I just... I... I don't...
-I understand.
556
00:32:46,214 --> 00:32:48,692
I just don't think
that she would do anything.
557
00:32:48,716 --> 00:32:51,260
But they had a strained relationship.
558
00:32:51,928 --> 00:32:58,118
They had questioned me about my movements,
what I did, my relationship with him,
559
00:32:58,142 --> 00:33:00,412
then they'd throw in
a question about Nathan.
560
00:33:00,436 --> 00:33:04,291
Then they would ask me
about John's business associates.
561
00:33:04,315 --> 00:33:06,168
"Was he doing this? Was he doing that?"
562
00:33:06,192 --> 00:33:09,171
And then they'd throw in,
"What about Nathan? Where was he?"
563
00:33:09,195 --> 00:33:10,089
"What was he..."
564
00:33:10,113 --> 00:33:12,466
They always kept going back to him.
565
00:33:12,490 --> 00:33:15,719
They'd ask three questions,
and the fourth one would be about Nathan.
566
00:33:15,743 --> 00:33:19,706
I'm going to be honest.
I... I have a problem with you.
567
00:33:20,331 --> 00:33:22,184
I have a problem. Let me explain.
568
00:33:22,208 --> 00:33:24,019
I have... My problem,
569
00:33:24,043 --> 00:33:27,690
and I'm not speaking
on behalf of detective here.
570
00:33:27,714 --> 00:33:28,881
My problem
571
00:33:30,299 --> 00:33:32,861
is that you were the last one
to see your grandfather.
572
00:33:32,885 --> 00:33:35,864
And that bothers me.
As an investigator, that bothers me.
573
00:33:35,888 --> 00:33:39,600
That bothers me because I don't have anyone
else who was with your grandfather...
574
00:33:41,185 --> 00:33:42,705
-But you.
-[Nathan] Mm-hmm.
575
00:33:42,729 --> 00:33:47,251
Well, you're... you're misunder...
That is incorrect.
576
00:33:47,275 --> 00:33:49,378
I... I saw my grandfather.
577
00:33:49,402 --> 00:33:51,755
We went to dinner. We had a good time.
578
00:33:51,779 --> 00:33:52,822
We got back.
579
00:33:53,489 --> 00:33:56,868
I... I left 8:00, 8:30, somewhere in there.
580
00:33:57,452 --> 00:34:00,264
Um, I expected to be hearing...
581
00:34:00,288 --> 00:34:03,416
To be calling the next day
to say how we did fishing.
582
00:34:04,834 --> 00:34:07,229
Instead, when we got back from fishing,
583
00:34:07,253 --> 00:34:10,339
uh, Joy called,
and so we found out he was dead.
584
00:34:12,842 --> 00:34:16,637
[Chuck] According to Nathan,
he had dinner with my uncle.
585
00:34:17,346 --> 00:34:21,309
He goes, "They had dinner.
They didn't get into any arguments."
586
00:34:22,101 --> 00:34:24,038
"They went their separate ways."
587
00:34:24,062 --> 00:34:30,044
And then he said he met with his mother
to, uh, go on a cod fishing trip
588
00:34:30,068 --> 00:34:32,361
at three o'clock in the morning.
589
00:34:33,738 --> 00:34:35,198
{\an8}[Scott] But there's a problem.
590
00:34:35,698 --> 00:34:39,160
{\an8}There's about an hour
that he's unaccounted for, uh...
591
00:34:40,995 --> 00:34:46,751
around the time that we think
maybe the homicide happened.
592
00:34:48,252 --> 00:34:51,356
[Lisa] Nathan was supposed
to be meeting Linda that night,
593
00:34:51,380 --> 00:34:53,049
and he was late.
594
00:34:54,383 --> 00:34:56,552
[prosecutor] Well, why were you
over an hour late
595
00:34:57,762 --> 00:35:00,014
to... to get to your mom?
596
00:35:02,225 --> 00:35:05,454
I don't think I left my apartment
until after 3:00.
597
00:35:05,478 --> 00:35:08,332
I'm not positive
what time I left my apartment.
598
00:35:08,356 --> 00:35:12,336
Um, but I definitely left it very late...
599
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,739
So as we're going through it,
some of his story didn't add up.
600
00:35:18,866 --> 00:35:21,178
[Nathan] If I'd taken the exit
on the south side of Hartford,
601
00:35:21,202 --> 00:35:24,473
I'd have gone over the Connecticut River,
gotten off the first exit,
602
00:35:24,497 --> 00:35:28,376
uh, and basically been at the parking lot
where my mom and I were supposed to meet.
603
00:35:29,168 --> 00:35:33,673
But I ended up getting off the wrong exit,
and then get turned around.
604
00:35:34,340 --> 00:35:39,279
Uh, and then I mistakenly took the exit
on the north side of Hartford
605
00:35:39,303 --> 00:35:41,389
to go over the Connecticut River.
606
00:35:43,099 --> 00:35:47,538
And then I... realized pretty quickly
607
00:35:47,562 --> 00:35:49,397
that I was, uh, turned around.
608
00:35:50,064 --> 00:35:51,440
[Mark] He said he got lost.
609
00:35:52,024 --> 00:35:55,629
Who gets lost going to their own spot
where they're telling you where to go?
610
00:35:55,653 --> 00:35:56,696
I don't know.
611
00:35:57,572 --> 00:35:59,133
He got lost.
612
00:35:59,157 --> 00:36:01,343
It's, you know,
three o'clock in the morning,
613
00:36:01,367 --> 00:36:05,013
and there's not too many ways to get lost.
614
00:36:05,037 --> 00:36:07,266
{\an8}His story is that
he got lost off the highway.
615
00:36:07,290 --> 00:36:09,935
{\an8}I'm not really sure
what happened with all that,
616
00:36:09,959 --> 00:36:13,045
{\an8}but it doesn't give him much of an alibi.
617
00:36:14,297 --> 00:36:17,442
[prosecutor] And your testimony is
your mother's in an empty parking lot
618
00:36:17,466 --> 00:36:18,986
at three o'clock in the morning,
619
00:36:19,010 --> 00:36:21,596
and you didn't call
to tell her you're going to be late?
620
00:36:23,723 --> 00:36:26,743
I know that I was rushing,
trying to get there on time.
621
00:36:26,767 --> 00:36:29,329
[prosecutor] She called you
four or five times during that hour,
622
00:36:29,353 --> 00:36:30,605
didn't she?
623
00:36:32,481 --> 00:36:35,818
I can't testify to that.
I don't refute that either.
624
00:36:40,573 --> 00:36:44,660
{\an8}The Windsor Police Department,
their narrative, you know...
625
00:36:45,661 --> 00:36:47,538
{\an8}I have to put on the reading glasses.
626
00:36:48,497 --> 00:36:49,790
{\an8}This is troubling.
627
00:36:50,374 --> 00:36:54,045
The neighbor said she heard gunshots
628
00:36:54,712 --> 00:36:56,088
at 2:00 in the morning.
629
00:36:56,797 --> 00:37:00,051
And we can account for Nathan
at two o'clock in the morning.
630
00:37:00,843 --> 00:37:04,448
Meaning Nathan Carman
did not kill John Chakalos.
631
00:37:04,472 --> 00:37:06,533
At 2:00 a.m.,
632
00:37:06,557 --> 00:37:09,912
Nathan would have been at his apartment,
633
00:37:09,936 --> 00:37:12,998
and that is corroborated
by surveillance video.
634
00:37:13,022 --> 00:37:18,003
If the loud bang that the neighbor heard
was, in fact, a gunshot,
635
00:37:18,027 --> 00:37:19,904
and she didn't have the time wrong,
636
00:37:21,656 --> 00:37:23,241
then Nathan has an alibi.
637
00:37:29,705 --> 00:37:33,209
[Mark] I suggested to put the family
through some polygraphs.
638
00:37:34,043 --> 00:37:38,357
It was explained,
we don't use polygraphs in a court of law.
639
00:37:38,381 --> 00:37:41,944
Law enforcement,
we use it to clear people,
640
00:37:41,968 --> 00:37:45,304
which the family agreed to do.
641
00:37:46,138 --> 00:37:48,140
But who didn't take the polygraph?
642
00:37:49,183 --> 00:37:50,184
Nathan.
643
00:37:51,060 --> 00:37:53,163
Nathan wouldn't take the polygraph.
644
00:37:53,187 --> 00:37:56,857
[dramatic music playing]
645
00:37:59,568 --> 00:38:04,049
There was some pushback
from Nathan's mother,
646
00:38:04,073 --> 00:38:05,574
but she ended up taking it.
647
00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:08,577
We talked to her for about an hour, and...
648
00:38:09,537 --> 00:38:12,623
Do you ever get that sense
that someone wanted to tell you something?
649
00:38:13,499 --> 00:38:14,393
That's how I had...
650
00:38:14,417 --> 00:38:16,419
She wanted to say something,
but she never did.
651
00:38:19,213 --> 00:38:21,066
[Chuck] When I took the polygraph,
they asked me,
652
00:38:21,090 --> 00:38:22,734
"Did you murder John Chakalos?"
653
00:38:22,758 --> 00:38:24,194
I said, "No."
654
00:38:24,218 --> 00:38:27,430
They go, "Do you know
who murdered John Chakalos?" I said, "No."
655
00:38:29,265 --> 00:38:31,910
And then Linda took it.
656
00:38:31,934 --> 00:38:33,477
She took it a few times.
657
00:38:34,270 --> 00:38:35,688
I think she failed it.
658
00:38:38,399 --> 00:38:41,277
The second time she took it,
it was inconclusive.
659
00:38:43,029 --> 00:38:46,508
When they get to the question of,
"Do you know who murdered John Chakalos?"
660
00:38:46,532 --> 00:38:48,951
I... I don't think
she could pass that question.
661
00:38:51,537 --> 00:38:54,582
After the murder, Charlene and I talked.
662
00:38:55,291 --> 00:38:57,710
She didn't say, "I think Nathan did it."
663
00:38:58,210 --> 00:39:00,689
What she said to me was interesting
because she said,
664
00:39:00,713 --> 00:39:04,151
"My sister Linda knows more
than what... what she's saying."
665
00:39:04,175 --> 00:39:05,593
That's what she picked up on.
666
00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:13,618
[Charlene] My sisters decided
to put up billboards for my dad's murder
667
00:39:13,642 --> 00:39:16,079
at the same area of the highway
668
00:39:16,103 --> 00:39:19,791
that both Nathan and Linda
would be traveling in all the time,
669
00:39:19,815 --> 00:39:23,045
for Linda and Nathan
to constantly see my dad's face,
670
00:39:23,069 --> 00:39:25,589
to pressure Linda and Nathan
671
00:39:25,613 --> 00:39:28,699
to finally, you know,
tell us or the police,
672
00:39:29,742 --> 00:39:32,870
you know, that Nathan had killed my dad.
673
00:39:39,293 --> 00:39:43,482
[Linda Gam] If Linda really thought
that Nathan killed John,
674
00:39:43,506 --> 00:39:46,735
I would have heard something
in her demeanor,
675
00:39:46,759 --> 00:39:48,695
even if she didn't say it to me.
676
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,197
Like there's more of something.
677
00:39:50,221 --> 00:39:53,140
"There's more that you're not telling me"
type of feeling.
678
00:39:54,350 --> 00:39:56,328
I didn't get any of that from her.
679
00:39:56,352 --> 00:39:59,039
[somber music playing]
680
00:39:59,063 --> 00:40:02,441
[Evan] Linda was very protective
over Nathan,
681
00:40:03,484 --> 00:40:05,528
and I think
she'd protect him at all costs.
682
00:40:07,655 --> 00:40:10,634
It makes you wonder if at that point,
683
00:40:10,658 --> 00:40:13,804
Linda could have been
trying to make amends
684
00:40:13,828 --> 00:40:16,831
for how she handled Nathan
when he was a teenager.
685
00:40:17,623 --> 00:40:22,920
Their relationship was very rough,
and there was a lot of turmoil there.
686
00:40:30,177 --> 00:40:32,638
[Clark] When Nathan was a teenager,
687
00:40:33,222 --> 00:40:35,975
his horse, Cruise, passed away.
688
00:40:38,144 --> 00:40:41,230
That was the biggest loss for Nathan.
689
00:40:42,314 --> 00:40:43,983
Confided in the horse,
690
00:40:44,942 --> 00:40:48,487
and really developed
a relationship with him.
691
00:40:49,321 --> 00:40:53,451
And then, to all of a sudden lose that...
692
00:40:57,288 --> 00:41:00,249
I think Nathan lost something too.
693
00:41:05,171 --> 00:41:07,465
He wanted to be alone.
694
00:41:11,260 --> 00:41:15,264
Linda had this 32-foot camper,
695
00:41:16,015 --> 00:41:19,768
so he would stay in there,
come in for meals.
696
00:41:20,936 --> 00:41:24,356
And Nathan progressively, uh...
697
00:41:25,483 --> 00:41:28,194
stayed in the camper longer and longer,
698
00:41:28,903 --> 00:41:31,614
and, uh, became worse.
699
00:41:33,991 --> 00:41:40,998
He took apart the microwave,
and he was trying to reassemble it.
700
00:41:42,416 --> 00:41:45,812
He was not coming out,
not really talking to anybody.
701
00:41:45,836 --> 00:41:49,649
He actually ended up urinating in bottles.
702
00:41:49,673 --> 00:41:51,884
He was going downhill, mentally.
703
00:41:55,304 --> 00:41:59,409
[Chuck] One member of the family told me
that he was being bullied by another kid,
704
00:41:59,433 --> 00:42:01,936
and that he pulled a knife on the kid.
705
00:42:02,603 --> 00:42:07,024
At that point, I was thinking to myself
that he might hurt himself.
706
00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:11,796
[Clark] We did research,
Linda did most of it,
707
00:42:11,820 --> 00:42:15,175
as to these camps
708
00:42:15,199 --> 00:42:20,931
that help individuals
that have, uh, obsessive behavior.
709
00:42:20,955 --> 00:42:23,040
[dark music playing]
710
00:42:26,043 --> 00:42:28,438
[Clark] The camp sent two men
711
00:42:28,462 --> 00:42:31,816
to take Nathan in the middle of the night.
712
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,027
He did not want to go.
713
00:42:34,051 --> 00:42:36,321
He was very anxious,
714
00:42:36,345 --> 00:42:38,389
pleaded with us,
715
00:42:38,973 --> 00:42:41,517
yelling, screaming.
716
00:42:42,226 --> 00:42:44,103
It was terrible. Terrible.
717
00:42:45,062 --> 00:42:47,314
But we had to let him go,
718
00:42:47,898 --> 00:42:51,610
and so they physically took him to Utah.
719
00:42:55,906 --> 00:42:58,593
[eerie music playing]
720
00:42:58,617 --> 00:43:03,598
[Evan] This is an 11-page letter
that Nathan had written to his priest.
721
00:43:03,622 --> 00:43:06,893
"The spread between
my mother and I widened,
722
00:43:06,917 --> 00:43:10,796
to equal the spread
between heaven and hell."
723
00:43:13,215 --> 00:43:15,277
"The way some parents are committed
724
00:43:15,301 --> 00:43:18,762
to having their children
grow up to be doctors or lawyers,
725
00:43:19,555 --> 00:43:23,743
my mother's dream
is to have a nonverbal autistic child,
726
00:43:23,767 --> 00:43:25,829
drooling in her living room,
727
00:43:25,853 --> 00:43:29,189
"whose diapers she can change
until she grows old."
728
00:43:30,649 --> 00:43:32,752
"My mother's pursuit of that dream,
729
00:43:32,776 --> 00:43:33,962
and her bullying,
730
00:43:33,986 --> 00:43:35,779
characterized my childhood."
731
00:43:38,949 --> 00:43:43,537
[Clark] When he came home,
he had, uh, had a breakdown, really.
732
00:43:44,371 --> 00:43:49,793
He was having some problems
about the Church,
733
00:43:50,753 --> 00:43:51,795
the devil.
734
00:43:53,088 --> 00:43:56,383
Our decision was made for us, really,
735
00:43:57,009 --> 00:43:58,844
that something had to be done.
736
00:44:02,348 --> 00:44:07,245
We took him
to Middlesex Hospital in Middletown.
737
00:44:07,269 --> 00:44:10,189
They held him on a psych hold.
738
00:44:11,857 --> 00:44:16,362
Nathan was supposed to be alone,
getting therapy,
739
00:44:16,945 --> 00:44:20,258
yet John would be there every day.
740
00:44:20,282 --> 00:44:23,219
He even brought him a newspaper every day.
741
00:44:23,243 --> 00:44:25,013
He brought pizza to him,
742
00:44:25,037 --> 00:44:29,416
which would really annoy Linda.
743
00:44:32,211 --> 00:44:38,634
We met as a family,
John, myself, and Linda,
744
00:44:39,218 --> 00:44:40,844
to discuss Nathan.
745
00:44:41,428 --> 00:44:44,074
That did not go real well.
746
00:44:44,098 --> 00:44:48,477
He wanted to take him out,
and that was it.
747
00:44:49,561 --> 00:44:52,707
John said he was gonna cut the money.
748
00:44:52,731 --> 00:44:55,460
Linda said she didn't want the money.
749
00:44:55,484 --> 00:44:56,694
He came at her.
750
00:44:58,112 --> 00:44:59,631
Started to slap her.
751
00:44:59,655 --> 00:45:03,367
Linda wanted him to be institutionalized.
John wasn't having it.
752
00:45:05,411 --> 00:45:07,347
[Charlene] My dad,
I don't think, wanted to accept
753
00:45:07,371 --> 00:45:09,832
that Nathan was terribly sick.
754
00:45:10,916 --> 00:45:14,854
Truthfully, mental illness
ran in the family.
755
00:45:14,878 --> 00:45:17,232
Every generation, it was passed down.
756
00:45:17,256 --> 00:45:20,985
{\an8}This is your Aunt Kiki again.
Want me to sing you a Greek song?
757
00:45:21,009 --> 00:45:25,782
{\an8}♪ Tiki tiki taki doo
Doki doki diki dee, daffy doh... ♪
758
00:45:25,806 --> 00:45:28,142
[Charlene] My father had a twin sister.
759
00:45:29,685 --> 00:45:33,707
She had depression
or some type of, uh, mental illness.
760
00:45:33,731 --> 00:45:36,775
[somber music playing]
761
00:45:39,737 --> 00:45:41,923
[Chuck] My mother would sleep all day
during the day.
762
00:45:41,947 --> 00:45:43,508
Didn't want me to go to school.
763
00:45:43,532 --> 00:45:46,177
I used to walk to the elementary school,
764
00:45:46,201 --> 00:45:48,388
and I used to say to her,
"Mom, I have to go to school."
765
00:45:48,412 --> 00:45:51,766
"No, stay here with me."
And she would cry, and she would...
766
00:45:51,790 --> 00:45:55,437
So, she was suffering from bad depression,
767
00:45:55,461 --> 00:45:58,231
and they finally, you know,
through doctors and everything,
768
00:45:58,255 --> 00:46:00,966
they said, "Look, she needs
to go into the hospital."
769
00:46:04,344 --> 00:46:06,781
Back then,
they gave people shock treatments
770
00:46:06,805 --> 00:46:08,742
and really fried 'em.
771
00:46:08,766 --> 00:46:12,412
I remember, when I was talking to John,
772
00:46:12,436 --> 00:46:16,440
he said, "What they did
to my sister was deplorable."
773
00:46:17,107 --> 00:46:19,461
[Charlene] Back then,
they were very barbaric,
774
00:46:19,485 --> 00:46:22,630
and so that must have
really been tough on my dad
775
00:46:22,654 --> 00:46:26,426
to have his twin sister,
you know, hospitalized,
776
00:46:26,450 --> 00:46:28,118
you know, for a mental illness.
777
00:46:28,702 --> 00:46:29,929
Even though things have changed,
778
00:46:29,953 --> 00:46:32,331
I think he still
kept that picture in his mind.
779
00:46:33,499 --> 00:46:36,752
That's why he was resisting
Nathan going into treatment.
780
00:46:51,308 --> 00:46:53,411
[music fades to silence]
781
00:46:53,435 --> 00:46:55,830
Hey, big guy.
I guess if you're watching this,
782
00:46:55,854 --> 00:46:57,207
you're watching this.
783
00:46:57,231 --> 00:46:59,817
You haven't been in this house,
784
00:47:00,609 --> 00:47:03,487
uh, not even to wash your hands
after fishing.
785
00:47:04,238 --> 00:47:06,466
This house is very important to me,
786
00:47:06,490 --> 00:47:09,201
has a lot of memories,
has a lot of history,
787
00:47:09,952 --> 00:47:12,764
and I feel it really needs
to stay in the family
788
00:47:12,788 --> 00:47:17,393
with somebody who does
and will cherish it as much as I do.
789
00:47:17,417 --> 00:47:23,024
Um, I'm leaving the house in Middletown
to, uh, Michael.
790
00:47:23,048 --> 00:47:27,719
Grandpa is leaving you
more than enough assets,
791
00:47:28,637 --> 00:47:33,868
and you are the sole inheritor of my trust
792
00:47:33,892 --> 00:47:36,270
and everything that's in there.
793
00:47:37,145 --> 00:47:39,582
So, you have more than enough.
794
00:47:39,606 --> 00:47:45,195
I love you with all my heart,
and that's my decision.
795
00:47:46,363 --> 00:47:50,117
[somber music playing]
796
00:47:54,663 --> 00:47:56,975
[Chuck] He wasn't talking
to his mother or his father,
797
00:47:56,999 --> 00:48:00,061
and my Uncle John shows up,
and he has Nathan with him.
798
00:48:00,085 --> 00:48:03,690
They're standing at the door,
and I open up the door,
799
00:48:03,714 --> 00:48:06,818
he comes in and goes, "I need you
to do something for me," you know.
800
00:48:06,842 --> 00:48:08,361
I go, "Okay."
801
00:48:08,385 --> 00:48:12,931
And, uh, he goes,
"Nathan needs to live here."
802
00:48:15,142 --> 00:48:17,745
Nathan, he was getting money from John.
803
00:48:17,769 --> 00:48:20,564
I would probably say
around $100,000 a year.
804
00:48:22,107 --> 00:48:25,503
John said to him, "You're gonna
go to college full-time now,
805
00:48:25,527 --> 00:48:28,423
and you're gonna get a part-time job,
or," he goes, "it's over."
806
00:48:28,447 --> 00:48:29,632
"No more funding."
807
00:48:29,656 --> 00:48:33,076
"This is what you have to do,
and that's gonna be the end of it."
808
00:48:34,703 --> 00:48:38,290
But Nathan, he wouldn't do it.
He didn't have the discipline.
809
00:48:40,959 --> 00:48:43,170
He started staying up late at night.
810
00:48:43,795 --> 00:48:47,257
Two, three o'clock in the morning,
and I'd hear him pacing around up there.
811
00:48:48,050 --> 00:48:49,861
And you could tell
that he needed medication
812
00:48:49,885 --> 00:48:52,054
because he'd become very agitated.
813
00:48:52,846 --> 00:48:56,409
But Nathan goes, "I refuse
to take any medication whatsoever."
814
00:48:56,433 --> 00:48:58,536
"I'm not going to a therapist."
815
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,729
"I'm not going to a psychiatrist."
816
00:49:01,396 --> 00:49:04,500
And he goes, "My mother
thinks I belong in the nuthouse,"
817
00:49:04,524 --> 00:49:07,128
and blah, blah, blah,
and he goes, "I had enough."
818
00:49:07,152 --> 00:49:09,964
And he took off out the door
in the middle of a snowstorm,
819
00:49:09,988 --> 00:49:11,073
running down the road.
820
00:49:14,284 --> 00:49:16,721
[Elizabeth] If someone
has a major diagnosis
821
00:49:16,745 --> 00:49:19,223
of autism spectrum disorder,
822
00:49:19,247 --> 00:49:21,768
but they refuse to accept the fact
823
00:49:21,792 --> 00:49:26,314
that they have
a serious mental illness as well,
824
00:49:26,338 --> 00:49:32,219
{\an8}that can be catastrophic,
often with deadly consequences.
825
00:49:34,346 --> 00:49:35,365
[reporter] Developing news.
826
00:49:35,389 --> 00:49:38,284
We now know police
have executed a search warrant
827
00:49:38,308 --> 00:49:40,244
at the home of Nathan Carman.
828
00:49:40,268 --> 00:49:43,689
[foreboding music playing]
829
00:49:47,567 --> 00:49:49,545
[Lisa] Very shortly before the homicide,
830
00:49:49,569 --> 00:49:53,657
{\an8}Nathan purchased the weapon out of state,
with an out-of-state driver's license.
831
00:49:54,741 --> 00:49:59,329
[prosecutor] Exhibit 23,
the invoice from Shooters Outpost.
832
00:49:59,955 --> 00:50:05,085
Did you purchase this SIG Sauer
semiautomatic assault weapon
833
00:50:05,669 --> 00:50:09,464
on November 11, 2013?
834
00:50:10,090 --> 00:50:13,236
I'm going to plead the Fifth
in response to that question.
835
00:50:13,260 --> 00:50:15,154
[Lisa] He refused
to answer questions about it,
836
00:50:15,178 --> 00:50:17,115
he refused to produce the weapon,
837
00:50:17,139 --> 00:50:19,575
and at this juncture,
law enforcement, to my knowledge,
838
00:50:19,599 --> 00:50:21,101
has no idea where that weapon is.
839
00:50:22,227 --> 00:50:24,789
And not only that,
but the ammunition used in that weapon
840
00:50:24,813 --> 00:50:27,792
matched what was recovered
from the crime scene
841
00:50:27,816 --> 00:50:29,735
of John Chakalos's homicide.
842
00:50:32,529 --> 00:50:34,799
{\an8}[Martin] What boils my blood
is the fact that
843
00:50:34,823 --> 00:50:37,260
{\an8}they're making
a lot of assumptions of fact.
844
00:50:37,284 --> 00:50:38,952
{\an8}It's not even conjecture!
845
00:50:39,536 --> 00:50:44,017
It could have been 600 different guns
that had that same shell.
846
00:50:44,041 --> 00:50:45,917
600 types of guns.
847
00:50:46,710 --> 00:50:49,397
[Lisa] The one thing that definitely
stuck out to me as an investigator
848
00:50:49,421 --> 00:50:53,508
was this was a weapon, um,
that he lied about owning and possessing.
849
00:50:54,092 --> 00:50:57,280
Going back to one of the first interviews,
850
00:50:57,304 --> 00:50:59,699
you... you had no guns.
851
00:50:59,723 --> 00:51:03,703
You mentioned something about...
an air gun or something like that?
852
00:51:03,727 --> 00:51:08,833
I-I had a, uh... I had
a... uh, an air rifle.
853
00:51:08,857 --> 00:51:12,086
Any other purchases
of a firearm of any type?
854
00:51:12,110 --> 00:51:13,110
No.
855
00:51:13,779 --> 00:51:16,340
If it wasn't him,
and it wasn't the weapon that he purchased
856
00:51:16,364 --> 00:51:18,551
that was used
as the murder weapon for Chakalos,
857
00:51:18,575 --> 00:51:22,096
he was given ample opportunity
to remedy that lie.
858
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:23,872
You know, to correct that deception.
859
00:51:24,623 --> 00:51:26,225
[prosecutor]
At the Windsor police station,
860
00:51:26,249 --> 00:51:28,126
after your grandfather is dead,
861
00:51:28,710 --> 00:51:30,688
did you lie to the Windsor police?
862
00:51:30,712 --> 00:51:32,839
[tense music playing]
863
00:51:34,716 --> 00:51:37,028
It's not a complicated question, Nathan.
864
00:51:37,052 --> 00:51:40,364
With respect to that question, uh...
865
00:51:40,388 --> 00:51:43,534
uh, if you want to be more specific,
uh, then I'll answer.
866
00:51:43,558 --> 00:51:46,496
-Otherwise, I invoke my Fifth Amendment...
-[prosecutor] I'll give you paper.
867
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,332
List all the lies
that you made to the Windsor police.
868
00:51:49,356 --> 00:51:51,584
Would that be easier, to be specific?
869
00:51:51,608 --> 00:51:54,587
How often did you lie
to the Windsor Police Department?
870
00:51:54,611 --> 00:51:57,030
There was one, inaccura... I... I...
871
00:51:57,739 --> 00:51:59,574
I-I... I'm pleading the Fifth.
872
00:52:00,951 --> 00:52:04,472
[Chuck] Initially, I defended Nathan
when police questioned me
873
00:52:04,496 --> 00:52:06,933
because they homed in on him right away.
874
00:52:06,957 --> 00:52:09,435
They go, "Do you think
he had anything to do with it?"
875
00:52:09,459 --> 00:52:12,605
They kept saying that to me,
and I go, "I don't think so."
876
00:52:12,629 --> 00:52:15,215
I go, "'Cause why?
I mean, how would he be better off?"
877
00:52:16,508 --> 00:52:20,345
{\an8}I came to find out later that
he got money from an insurance policy.
878
00:52:21,388 --> 00:52:23,241
As soon as he gave a death certificate,
879
00:52:23,265 --> 00:52:28,436
he received a substantial amount of money
that didn't have to go through a probate.
880
00:52:32,816 --> 00:52:37,296
[man 9] I think one of the biggest
pieces of evidence in this case is
881
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:38,613
{\an8}he had sent a memo
882
00:52:39,156 --> 00:52:42,742
{\an8}to his grandfather's
trust and estates attorney,
883
00:52:43,326 --> 00:52:48,331
prior to his grandfather's death,
with very specific questions.
884
00:52:48,999 --> 00:52:52,002
Unbelievably specific questions,
and many of them.
885
00:52:58,049 --> 00:53:02,363
It essentially came down to,
you know, who has to die first, and when,
886
00:53:02,387 --> 00:53:04,347
in order for me to inherit the money?
887
00:53:05,515 --> 00:53:08,911
I think this was a murder,
with one motive.
888
00:53:08,935 --> 00:53:11,581
It's so that Nathan Carman can have money.
889
00:53:11,605 --> 00:53:13,541
[pensive music playing]
890
00:53:13,565 --> 00:53:16,127
[David] They want to attribute
a money motive to Nathan
891
00:53:16,151 --> 00:53:17,670
for the death of John Chakalos,
892
00:53:17,694 --> 00:53:22,341
but they don't really go into the fact
that Nathan Carman's grandfather,
893
00:53:22,365 --> 00:53:24,635
um, was supporting Nathan,
894
00:53:24,659 --> 00:53:28,538
uh, bought him a truck,
paid his rent, gave him money,
895
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,684
um, took care of everything,
took care of school.
896
00:53:31,708 --> 00:53:34,002
Who was the person that least
897
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,048
benefited from John Chakalos's death?
898
00:53:38,965 --> 00:53:40,133
Nathan Carman.
899
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,236
Least benefited.
900
00:53:42,260 --> 00:53:46,824
I still to this day believe him.
There was no involvement.
901
00:53:46,848 --> 00:53:50,453
He was never charged, nor was he arrested.
902
00:53:50,477 --> 00:53:53,873
We never were able
to get an arrest warrant signed.
903
00:53:53,897 --> 00:53:55,499
There was one submitted.
904
00:53:55,523 --> 00:53:59,795
The assistant chief state attorney,
uh, denied it.
905
00:53:59,819 --> 00:54:05,426
People had been through a trial
and put on death row
906
00:54:05,450 --> 00:54:09,388
for less evidence
than what they had on Nathan,
907
00:54:09,412 --> 00:54:12,707
and I just thought
that was just... just insane.
908
00:54:13,833 --> 00:54:16,520
You know, why wasn't he even arrested?
909
00:54:16,544 --> 00:54:18,630
[haunting music playing]
910
00:54:29,933 --> 00:54:31,869
[Lisa] After the Chakalos homicide,
911
00:54:31,893 --> 00:54:38,501
a priest at the parish
at which the Chakalos family attended,
912
00:54:38,525 --> 00:54:41,879
he was informed by his assistant
913
00:54:41,903 --> 00:54:47,867
that, um, Nathan Carman and Linda Carman
were outside in the church.
914
00:54:50,287 --> 00:54:52,848
The Father went out,
915
00:54:52,872 --> 00:54:57,085
and he found Nathan kneeling on the altar
916
00:54:57,877 --> 00:55:02,590
with his hands outstretched,
praying to God.
917
00:55:05,051 --> 00:55:08,430
Linda was sitting
in the back of the church, watching.
918
00:55:11,224 --> 00:55:13,226
This went on for about five hours.
919
00:55:14,853 --> 00:55:17,873
At one point, the Father approached behind
920
00:55:17,897 --> 00:55:20,817
and somewhat close enough
to hear what Nathan was saying.
921
00:55:22,193 --> 00:55:24,529
Nathan was begging for forgiveness.
922
00:55:25,155 --> 00:55:27,240
He was begging God for forgiveness.
923
00:55:38,626 --> 00:55:40,688
-[girl screaming]
-[young Nathan] You let him get away!
924
00:55:40,712 --> 00:55:43,065
[Linda Carman] Nathan, we hurt him.
No, Hayley, we hurt him.
925
00:55:43,089 --> 00:55:44,692
-We hurt him.
-[Charlene] What'd he do?
926
00:55:44,716 --> 00:55:47,403
-We're going to let him go.
-We can't let him get away!
927
00:55:47,427 --> 00:55:48,487
Yeah, but we hurt him.
928
00:55:48,511 --> 00:55:51,073
[Charlene] You know what, Nathan?
It's okay.
929
00:55:51,097 --> 00:55:53,034
You know what, Nathan? The lizard's okay...
930
00:55:53,058 --> 00:55:54,934
[Linda Gam] Linda was a wonderful mom.
931
00:55:56,269 --> 00:56:00,982
From the moment Nathan was born,
Linda was trying to do the best for him.
932
00:56:01,649 --> 00:56:05,338
That's how her life was,
just trying to help her son.
933
00:56:05,362 --> 00:56:08,007
[gentle piano music playing]
934
00:56:08,031 --> 00:56:10,217
She would see something in Nathan
935
00:56:10,241 --> 00:56:13,637
and then search and read about it,
read about it, read about it,
936
00:56:13,661 --> 00:56:16,331
find a specialist, constantly.
937
00:56:17,999 --> 00:56:19,477
Nathan loved his mom.
938
00:56:19,501 --> 00:56:22,420
They had a very special relationship.
939
00:56:23,546 --> 00:56:26,216
She tried to be with him
as much as she could.
940
00:56:27,008 --> 00:56:29,761
She was trying to help.
941
00:56:31,679 --> 00:56:35,534
She didn't want Nathan to go through
what she did when she was growing up.
942
00:56:35,558 --> 00:56:38,662
All the negativity,
all the yelling in the house,
943
00:56:38,686 --> 00:56:39,789
the physicality.
944
00:56:39,813 --> 00:56:42,440
But as he got older,
945
00:56:43,233 --> 00:56:45,485
he just backed out of it. He backed away.
946
00:56:49,114 --> 00:56:51,116
[pensive music playing]
947
00:56:54,035 --> 00:56:57,539
[Linda Gam] She wanted to have
a better relationship with Nathan,
948
00:56:58,790 --> 00:57:01,835
and I think that's why
they would go out fishing.
949
00:57:06,673 --> 00:57:07,733
[Linda Carman] Nice.
950
00:57:07,757 --> 00:57:11,695
[Linda Gam] She didn't really care
for fishing. Didn't care about it.
951
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,198
She was just trying
whatever she could find
952
00:57:14,222 --> 00:57:15,741
that would connect them.
953
00:57:15,765 --> 00:57:17,660
[Linda Carman] You measure him
in the middle?
954
00:57:17,684 --> 00:57:20,645
-[Nathan] He's fat.
-[Linda Carman] Yeah, he is fat.
955
00:57:21,729 --> 00:57:22,729
Bye-bye.
956
00:57:26,526 --> 00:57:29,737
[Linda Gam] She loved him.
I mean, really loved him.
957
00:57:32,907 --> 00:57:36,786
[Clark] After John's death, Nathan, um...
958
00:57:39,038 --> 00:57:41,475
I can't say he was more of a loner.
959
00:57:41,499 --> 00:57:42,876
He was himself,
960
00:57:43,501 --> 00:57:47,815
in that he, uh,
had bought property in Vermont.
961
00:57:47,839 --> 00:57:50,860
[intriguing music playing]
962
00:57:50,884 --> 00:57:56,157
He, uh, was studying
and learning how to do all the plumbing.
963
00:57:56,181 --> 00:57:59,326
He did the remodeling inside.
964
00:57:59,350 --> 00:58:01,728
He did it all on... on his own.
965
00:58:05,064 --> 00:58:08,502
[Alfred] It was this massive, you know,
house that was under construction.
966
00:58:08,526 --> 00:58:10,153
Ripped down to the studs.
967
00:58:12,238 --> 00:58:13,918
{\an8}Kind of surprising
anyone would live there.
968
00:58:16,701 --> 00:58:21,348
[Clark] Because the family
was entirely against him
969
00:58:21,372 --> 00:58:26,085
and felt that
he was the one that had murdered John,
970
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:29,923
I believe he wanted to, um,
971
00:58:30,673 --> 00:58:33,152
I guess immerse himself into something,
972
00:58:33,176 --> 00:58:37,931
and concentrate
on building his property up.
973
00:58:41,351 --> 00:58:44,562
He was trying to get in the business.
974
00:58:45,813 --> 00:58:48,000
[Chuck] In his mind,
he was gonna be a wealthy man,
975
00:58:48,024 --> 00:58:49,668
he was gonna be a developer
976
00:58:49,692 --> 00:58:55,674
building big, you know,
multi-floor mansions and skyscrapers
977
00:58:55,698 --> 00:58:56,717
and whatever.
978
00:58:56,741 --> 00:58:58,952
And that wasn't gonna happen.
979
00:59:10,713 --> 00:59:12,608
Before I moved to Florida,
980
00:59:12,632 --> 00:59:16,594
I stopped at Linda's house,
and I said to her, "Look, Linda",
981
00:59:18,096 --> 00:59:23,560
"everybody knows that the alibi
that Nathan gave is not true."
982
00:59:24,769 --> 00:59:26,789
"No one believes that story."
983
00:59:26,813 --> 00:59:28,898
And she goes, "He's my son."
984
00:59:29,691 --> 00:59:33,570
She goes,
"I'm his mother. He's my only child."
985
00:59:35,989 --> 00:59:39,409
And she was very shaken up by it.
I mean, she was in tears.
986
00:59:40,827 --> 00:59:43,955
And she kept saying,
"He's my son. He's my son."
987
00:59:46,082 --> 00:59:47,017
I mean...
988
00:59:47,041 --> 00:59:51,754
It took... you could physically see
that it was taking a toll on her.
989
00:59:55,091 --> 00:59:56,777
{\an8}You know, I think in my mind,
990
00:59:56,801 --> 00:59:59,363
{\an8}I think that within the next month or two,
991
00:59:59,387 --> 01:00:01,431
{\an8}she was getting ready to fold up.
992
01:00:02,223 --> 01:00:06,019
And I said, "And you have to be worried,
because you're a loose end."
993
01:00:06,603 --> 01:00:08,605
[foreboding music playing]
994
01:00:10,148 --> 01:00:13,919
Before I left, I said, "You better never
go out on that boat again with that kid,
995
01:00:13,943 --> 01:00:17,423
because if you do, he's gonna be
the only one coming back."
996
01:00:17,447 --> 01:00:19,758
"Something's gonna happen
to you out there,
997
01:00:19,782 --> 01:00:21,284
and that's gonna be the end of you."
998
01:00:23,161 --> 01:00:24,305
And she said to me, she goes,
999
01:00:24,329 --> 01:00:26,831
"You're not the only one
that's said that to me."
1000
01:00:29,208 --> 01:00:32,629
And that was the last time
I ever... ever saw her.
1001
01:00:35,590 --> 01:00:38,676
[eerie music playing]
1002
01:00:45,767 --> 01:00:47,352
[Evan] The ocean is vast.
1003
01:00:48,478 --> 01:00:51,314
The ocean is enormous.
1004
01:00:52,482 --> 01:00:57,087
And when you talk about the ocean
as being a crime scene,
1005
01:00:57,111 --> 01:01:01,658
it just gets deeper and deeper and deeper.
1006
01:01:05,078 --> 01:01:09,123
[prosecutor] When did you notice
that the Chicken Pox was taking on water?
1007
01:01:10,166 --> 01:01:13,294
Around midday, on September 18th.
1008
01:01:16,547 --> 01:01:18,758
The engine sounded different to me.
1009
01:01:19,801 --> 01:01:23,864
Uh, and therefore,
I wanted to check the engine.
1010
01:01:23,888 --> 01:01:27,266
And I opened the hatch
forward of the pilot house,
1011
01:01:27,809 --> 01:01:31,646
um, and observed
a large quantity of water in the bilge.
1012
01:01:32,897 --> 01:01:34,816
[prosecutor] And then what did you do?
1013
01:01:36,317 --> 01:01:39,821
[Nathan] Then I asked my mom
to bring in the fishing lines.
1014
01:01:40,697 --> 01:01:43,717
[prosecutor] You didn't tell your mom
you had two feet of water in the boat?
1015
01:01:43,741 --> 01:01:46,053
No, I thought she would panic
if I told her that.
1016
01:01:46,077 --> 01:01:48,389
[prosecutor] So you got
two feet of water in the boat.
1017
01:01:48,413 --> 01:01:50,724
Rather than tell your mom
to put on a life jacket,
1018
01:01:50,748 --> 01:01:52,726
you told her
to bring in the fishing lines.
1019
01:01:52,750 --> 01:01:54,019
That's your testimony?
1020
01:01:54,043 --> 01:01:56,313
I asked my mom
to bring in the fishing lines.
1021
01:01:56,337 --> 01:01:59,149
[prosecutor] Bringing in fishing lines
was more important at that moment
1022
01:01:59,173 --> 01:02:00,842
than putting on a life jacket?
1023
01:02:01,676 --> 01:02:06,073
I-I've asked myself,
did I do the right thing?
1024
01:02:06,097 --> 01:02:09,267
Uh, I know at the time,
what I was thinking
1025
01:02:10,685 --> 01:02:14,873
was... I-I need...
One, the lines need to come in.
1026
01:02:14,897 --> 01:02:20,403
Two, I need to keep my mom occupied
while I'm trying to fix the problem.
1027
01:02:22,947 --> 01:02:25,825
I didn't think the boat was going to sink.
1028
01:02:29,162 --> 01:02:30,472
[Eric] Boats don't do that.
1029
01:02:30,496 --> 01:02:32,891
Boats don't just drop out from under you,
1030
01:02:32,915 --> 01:02:36,061
sink bow first, the way he described it,
1031
01:02:36,085 --> 01:02:39,273
and disappear into the abyss of the ocean.
1032
01:02:39,297 --> 01:02:41,382
[ominous music playing]
1033
01:02:49,724 --> 01:02:51,994
-[reporters clamoring]
-[camera shutters clicking]
1034
01:02:52,018 --> 01:02:54,663
[reporter 1] Opening statements took place
in a Providence courtroom
1035
01:02:54,687 --> 01:02:56,540
in the trial of Nathan Carman.
1036
01:02:56,564 --> 01:02:58,709
[reporter 2] An insurance company
is suing Carman,
1037
01:02:58,733 --> 01:03:01,044
who filed an insurance claim for his boat
1038
01:03:01,068 --> 01:03:04,530
that sunk off the coast of Point Judith
back in 2016.
1039
01:03:05,281 --> 01:03:07,176
{\an8}What surprises me the most, to this day,
1040
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,928
{\an8}and it's surprised me
since the beginning of this,
1041
01:03:09,952 --> 01:03:12,872
{\an8}is why did he file an insurance claim?
1042
01:03:13,539 --> 01:03:17,168
{\an8}If he hadn't filed a claim,
he was gonna be a free man.
1043
01:03:28,179 --> 01:03:32,493
So, I believe the insurance company
was getting ready to pay the claim.
1044
01:03:32,517 --> 01:03:37,498
And this is when we spoke
with people at Ram Point Marina.
1045
01:03:37,522 --> 01:03:40,584
That day, he had spent
the entire day working on the boat,
1046
01:03:40,608 --> 01:03:42,401
the day he went offshore with his mother.
1047
01:03:44,153 --> 01:03:48,091
There was a gentleman
that was sitting on the dock that day.
1048
01:03:48,115 --> 01:03:51,720
{\an8}I didn't see any fishing poles.
I didn't even see him with food.
1049
01:03:51,744 --> 01:03:54,580
It kind of caught my eye
when I saw him leaning over the back
1050
01:03:55,206 --> 01:03:56,999
and drilling two holes.
1051
01:03:58,209 --> 01:04:00,020
[Liam] He saw Nathan Carman,
1052
01:04:00,044 --> 01:04:03,398
and he's bending over
and reaching to the back of the boat
1053
01:04:03,422 --> 01:04:07,110
with a drill in his hand
that had a hole saw bit on it.
1054
01:04:07,134 --> 01:04:09,929
He removed the trim tabs
from the boat that day.
1055
01:04:11,639 --> 01:04:15,786
{\an8}Trim tabs are metal flaps
that are affixed to the stern of the boat.
1056
01:04:15,810 --> 01:04:17,329
{\an8}By taking the trim tabs off,
1057
01:04:17,353 --> 01:04:19,772
he created a situation
where there were holes.
1058
01:04:21,023 --> 01:04:24,086
Boaters work on their boats all the time.
1059
01:04:24,110 --> 01:04:27,923
They do things to them
that probably shouldn't be done.
1060
01:04:27,947 --> 01:04:29,991
They drill holes, they fill 'em...
1061
01:04:30,575 --> 01:04:34,096
If you were gonna plan
something like this, right?
1062
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:36,497
And you were gonna
deal with the trim tabs,
1063
01:04:37,081 --> 01:04:39,685
would you do that
where there's two or three or four people
1064
01:04:39,709 --> 01:04:41,270
watching you do this?
1065
01:04:41,294 --> 01:04:43,421
Or would you do it
in the middle of the night?
1066
01:04:44,463 --> 01:04:48,527
I think he wanted to be seen
making these "repairs,"
1067
01:04:48,551 --> 01:04:50,279
taking these trim tabs off.
1068
01:04:50,303 --> 01:04:54,700
This gave him a reason
for why the boat sank.
1069
01:04:54,724 --> 01:04:58,287
A guy whose scheme
is to kill his grandfather,
1070
01:04:58,311 --> 01:05:00,163
wait three, three and a half years,
1071
01:05:00,187 --> 01:05:01,498
kill his mother,
1072
01:05:01,522 --> 01:05:05,919
then presents a claim for $85,000.
1073
01:05:05,943 --> 01:05:08,279
You'd have to be moronic to do that.
1074
01:05:09,655 --> 01:05:11,550
[reporter 3] Nathan Carman
breaking his silence
1075
01:05:11,574 --> 01:05:14,595
after days of testimony in his civil trial
against the insurance company
1076
01:05:14,619 --> 01:05:16,763
for his sunken boat, the Chicken Pox.
1077
01:05:16,787 --> 01:05:19,433
Firstly, we don't know
what caused the boat to sink.
1078
01:05:19,457 --> 01:05:21,792
Secondly, this isn't about money.
1079
01:05:22,585 --> 01:05:25,731
I almost feel like
I have a responsibility to my mom
1080
01:05:25,755 --> 01:05:28,483
to make sure that the truth comes out.
1081
01:05:28,507 --> 01:05:32,738
And Mr. Farrell and the insurers
BoatUS made claims against me
1082
01:05:32,762 --> 01:05:34,448
that are so tremendous,
1083
01:05:34,472 --> 01:05:36,617
I don't feel like
I can walk away from them.
1084
01:05:36,641 --> 01:05:38,225
That's all I have to say.
1085
01:05:40,603 --> 01:05:43,206
{\an8}[reporter 4] Nathan Carman
will not receive the insurance money
1086
01:05:43,230 --> 01:05:45,000
{\an8}for his boat, the Chicken Pox.
1087
01:05:45,024 --> 01:05:48,253
{\an8}[reporter 5] A federal judge has
determined Nathan Carman's boat sank
1088
01:05:48,277 --> 01:05:51,214
either directly or indirectly
because of his faulty repairs.
1089
01:05:51,238 --> 01:05:54,259
[reporter 6] It all came down
to how he repaired four holes he made
1090
01:05:54,283 --> 01:05:56,094
the morning of the boat's last voyage.
1091
01:05:56,118 --> 01:05:57,679
[reporters clamoring]
1092
01:05:57,703 --> 01:06:01,892
[Chuck] That insurance company had
the resources that the police didn't have,
1093
01:06:01,916 --> 01:06:04,227
and that was his downfall.
1094
01:06:04,251 --> 01:06:06,313
Once the insurance company
fought the claim
1095
01:06:06,337 --> 01:06:10,716
and he lost that... that court case,
they handed over all the information,
1096
01:06:11,425 --> 01:06:15,405
{\an8}and then the investigation
clicked up four or five notches.
1097
01:06:15,429 --> 01:06:17,348
{\an8}Now the feds are involved.
1098
01:06:18,766 --> 01:06:22,496
[dramatic music playing]
1099
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,624
[reporter 7] 28-year-old Nathan Carman
1100
01:06:25,648 --> 01:06:29,753
has been arrested for the murder
of his mother, Linda Carman.
1101
01:06:29,777 --> 01:06:32,297
According to the unsealed indictment,
1102
01:06:32,321 --> 01:06:35,884
Nathan allegedly
killed his mother on the high seas
1103
01:06:35,908 --> 01:06:37,844
and sunk his own boat.
1104
01:06:37,868 --> 01:06:40,013
[reporter 8] The indictment
even goes so far as to say
1105
01:06:40,037 --> 01:06:42,140
he murdered his own grandfather too.
1106
01:06:42,164 --> 01:06:45,251
All of this allegedly over inheritance.
1107
01:06:46,043 --> 01:06:48,981
Nathan was charged
with murder on the high seas.
1108
01:06:49,005 --> 01:06:54,301
I felt relief because I knew
that was a weight off of my family.
1109
01:06:55,428 --> 01:06:59,324
We wanted to make sure
Nathan was punished,
1110
01:06:59,348 --> 01:07:01,827
that he was found guilty,
1111
01:07:01,851 --> 01:07:05,396
and he would never be allowed
to do anything like this again.
1112
01:07:07,314 --> 01:07:10,877
[Lisa] After a six-year FBI investigation,
1113
01:07:10,901 --> 01:07:13,588
Nathan was charged in federal court
1114
01:07:13,612 --> 01:07:19,094
with engaging in a long-term,
very calculated scheme
1115
01:07:19,118 --> 01:07:24,999
to ensure that he would be the beneficiary
of the wealth of his grandfather.
1116
01:07:27,376 --> 01:07:30,129
-[man] Nathan, did you kill your mother?
-[Nathan] Not guilty!
1117
01:07:35,301 --> 01:07:37,529
[Martin] The problem is
there was no scheme.
1118
01:07:37,553 --> 01:07:39,573
There never was a scheme.
1119
01:07:39,597 --> 01:07:42,242
{\an8}I have a godson
1120
01:07:42,266 --> 01:07:44,828
{\an8}the same exact age as Nathan
1121
01:07:44,852 --> 01:07:48,749
who has the same autistic stressors
that Nathan has.
1122
01:07:48,773 --> 01:07:51,609
Nathan Carman. We're here to see him.
1123
01:07:52,818 --> 01:07:55,881
Whatever I have to do
within the bounds of law,
1124
01:07:55,905 --> 01:07:57,490
I am gonna do.
1125
01:07:58,157 --> 01:08:01,845
I had a double bypass
a year and a half ago.
1126
01:08:01,869 --> 01:08:04,598
My doctor says, "Don't get involved."
1127
01:08:04,622 --> 01:08:05,932
[door buzzes]
1128
01:08:05,956 --> 01:08:07,684
I said to my doctor,
1129
01:08:07,708 --> 01:08:11,897
"If I gotta die in the courtroom
with this case,
1130
01:08:11,921 --> 01:08:14,900
and getting this kid
the justice he deserves,
1131
01:08:14,924 --> 01:08:16,383
so be it."
1132
01:08:23,307 --> 01:08:26,661
[prosecutor] You say that
you were at sea in this life raft
1133
01:08:26,685 --> 01:08:30,064
for approximately seven days
after the boat sank?
1134
01:08:32,983 --> 01:08:34,252
Is that correct?
1135
01:08:34,276 --> 01:08:38,739
Yes, I was at sea in the life raft
for seven days after the boat sank.
1136
01:08:39,740 --> 01:08:42,201
[eerie music playing]
1137
01:08:44,537 --> 01:08:47,641
[Eric] There's no way
that he was in that life raft
1138
01:08:47,665 --> 01:08:51,001
for the period of time that he said
that he was in that life raft.
1139
01:08:52,044 --> 01:08:54,630
And what stands out to me in this picture
1140
01:08:55,840 --> 01:09:00,094
is that Nathan is gripping onto the rail
1141
01:09:00,845 --> 01:09:03,973
on both sides of the ladder.
1142
01:09:05,808 --> 01:09:10,288
And I can't help but wonder,
after seven days in a life raft,
1143
01:09:10,312 --> 01:09:12,374
how he's able to do that.
1144
01:09:12,398 --> 01:09:16,920
Your body is just
not going to be able to manage
1145
01:09:16,944 --> 01:09:19,297
the ebb and flow and the bouncing
1146
01:09:19,321 --> 01:09:23,200
and the lack of vision on the horizon.
1147
01:09:24,702 --> 01:09:31,167
Physiologically, there's no way he would
have been able to move like he's moving.
1148
01:09:32,626 --> 01:09:36,398
[Lisa] In all likelihood,
he would not have been able to swim
1149
01:09:36,422 --> 01:09:39,025
and climb those stairs without assistance
1150
01:09:39,049 --> 01:09:41,903
because he would not have been
on his feet for seven days.
1151
01:09:41,927 --> 01:09:43,697
He would not have been using
those muscles.
1152
01:09:43,721 --> 01:09:45,389
He would not have had the stamina.
1153
01:09:48,851 --> 01:09:50,370
-[man] What's up?
-[David] Here he is.
1154
01:09:50,394 --> 01:09:53,039
-Thanks for coming. David Sullivan.
-Absolutely. Nice to meet you.
1155
01:09:53,063 --> 01:09:57,252
[man] I did see that the expert said
his dexterity was too great
1156
01:09:57,276 --> 01:09:58,920
{\an8}to have been at sea for seven days.
1157
01:09:58,944 --> 01:10:00,297
{\an8}Again, I'm gonna disagree.
1158
01:10:00,321 --> 01:10:03,425
In that situation, when you know
that's your potential rescue,
1159
01:10:03,449 --> 01:10:05,093
possibly your only rescue,
1160
01:10:05,117 --> 01:10:07,846
uh, you know,
your adrenaline's gonna kick up,
1161
01:10:07,870 --> 01:10:09,181
no matter how exhausted you are.
1162
01:10:09,205 --> 01:10:13,351
And I've been in those situations where,
extreme heat conditions in Iraq,
1163
01:10:13,375 --> 01:10:15,395
guys are dehydrated.
1164
01:10:15,419 --> 01:10:16,771
They're exhausted.
1165
01:10:16,795 --> 01:10:19,482
And when we had an extract
under a contact,
1166
01:10:19,506 --> 01:10:23,111
you saw the guys almost pop out
of that exhaustion, that dehydration,
1167
01:10:23,135 --> 01:10:24,345
and go into action.
1168
01:10:25,262 --> 01:10:28,867
[prosecutor] What did you have
in the emergency ditch bag?
1169
01:10:28,891 --> 01:10:33,896
I remember there being, uh,
Datrex emergency food rations.
1170
01:10:34,396 --> 01:10:39,360
I remember there being a water maker,
a hand held emergency water maker.
1171
01:10:40,778 --> 01:10:45,050
[Liam] He's got, in his life raft,
a machine, a device that he had purchased,
1172
01:10:45,074 --> 01:10:47,886
that would turn salt water
into drinkable water.
1173
01:10:47,910 --> 01:10:51,598
I have never known anyone,
in my experience,
1174
01:10:51,622 --> 01:10:54,935
on a recreational boat, on a 30-foot boat,
1175
01:10:54,959 --> 01:10:57,270
that has an emergency water maker.
1176
01:10:57,294 --> 01:11:01,191
What I took away from reading
the account of the boat sinking,
1177
01:11:01,215 --> 01:11:04,444
{\an8}is that, uh, on the one hand,
1178
01:11:04,468 --> 01:11:10,450
{\an8}you had... you had Nathan's systematizing,
1179
01:11:10,474 --> 01:11:13,852
that trait of autism,
to have structure and planning,
1180
01:11:14,603 --> 01:11:18,625
um, that was on display in the fact
1181
01:11:18,649 --> 01:11:20,335
that Nathan thought through
1182
01:11:20,359 --> 01:11:24,256
everything he would need
in a survival raft,
1183
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:27,342
and he had that on a boat
that didn't require it.
1184
01:11:27,366 --> 01:11:31,596
Autistic people like me,
and by extension, people like him,
1185
01:11:31,620 --> 01:11:35,684
those traits
to have structure and planning
1186
01:11:35,708 --> 01:11:37,852
are part of our autism.
1187
01:11:37,876 --> 01:11:41,314
But, you know, people tend
to think we're up to something,
1188
01:11:41,338 --> 01:11:45,259
we're tricky, we're devious,
or we're just dummies.
1189
01:11:46,093 --> 01:11:47,153
At a certain time,
1190
01:11:47,177 --> 01:11:49,364
so after I had what I called lunch,
1191
01:11:49,388 --> 01:11:51,866
I was having "brunch,"
1192
01:11:51,890 --> 01:11:53,475
'cause the... the life raft...
1193
01:11:53,976 --> 01:11:58,022
uh... in... the... surviv... the, uh...
1194
01:11:58,772 --> 01:12:01,418
food packs said to eat four per day,
1195
01:12:01,442 --> 01:12:04,194
and so I was spacing that out
throughout the day.
1196
01:12:04,778 --> 01:12:07,257
I did spot the Orient Lucky around midday,
1197
01:12:07,281 --> 01:12:11,118
uh, when I, uh, stood up in the life raft
and looked around.
1198
01:12:11,994 --> 01:12:16,141
Science tells us that there is no way,
1199
01:12:16,165 --> 01:12:18,393
based on the narrative that he told us,
1200
01:12:18,417 --> 01:12:20,812
that he could have sank
at the time he sank,
1201
01:12:20,836 --> 01:12:24,899
where he sank, even roughly, even loosely,
1202
01:12:24,923 --> 01:12:28,945
and end up where he ended up
and where he was recovered at sea.
1203
01:12:28,969 --> 01:12:30,447
[suspenseful music playing]
1204
01:12:30,471 --> 01:12:34,200
[Liam] The Coast Guard can figure out
how something will drift,
1205
01:12:34,224 --> 01:12:38,103
based on the size of the vessel,
the weight of the vessel.
1206
01:12:39,563 --> 01:12:42,566
[Eric] Drift analysis,
it's a refined science.
1207
01:12:43,692 --> 01:12:46,379
Wind, current, sea temperature.
1208
01:12:46,403 --> 01:12:48,506
All of those factor in,
1209
01:12:48,530 --> 01:12:51,843
and all of those are monitored
multiple times a day
1210
01:12:51,867 --> 01:12:54,179
at various points throughout the ocean.
1211
01:12:54,203 --> 01:12:55,930
There's buoys in the water.
1212
01:12:55,954 --> 01:13:00,709
There are, um, you know,
sensors on satellites.
1213
01:13:01,293 --> 01:13:04,213
{\an8}The drift analysis tells us
1214
01:13:05,047 --> 01:13:09,718
{\an8}that the pattern of drift
would have taken him east to west...
1215
01:13:12,930 --> 01:13:15,015
which would have put Nathan
1216
01:13:15,724 --> 01:13:20,729
somewhere... down here.
1217
01:13:22,272 --> 01:13:25,126
But definitely not over here.
1218
01:13:25,150 --> 01:13:26,360
[music stops]
1219
01:13:27,361 --> 01:13:30,048
He would have been
80 miles in the opposite direction
1220
01:13:30,072 --> 01:13:31,907
if he had sunk in the Block Canyon.
1221
01:13:32,866 --> 01:13:34,719
[Martin] Their drift analysis expert
1222
01:13:34,743 --> 01:13:38,973
said he should have been
heading toward New Jersey
1223
01:13:38,997 --> 01:13:43,019
instead of where he claimed he ended up.
1224
01:13:43,043 --> 01:13:45,105
Have you had a chance to look at that?
1225
01:13:45,129 --> 01:13:46,147
I did.
1226
01:13:46,171 --> 01:13:49,109
With the drift analysis,
the reason I put very little weight is,
1227
01:13:49,133 --> 01:13:50,276
what's the crosscurrent?
1228
01:13:50,300 --> 01:13:54,280
What are the winds doing?
What's the current underneath the surface?
1229
01:13:54,304 --> 01:13:56,741
There's so many variables
that could refute
1230
01:13:56,765 --> 01:13:59,619
I believe it was one buoy
that they were pulling this data.
1231
01:13:59,643 --> 01:14:02,872
Ultimately, it's an imprecise science.
1232
01:14:02,896 --> 01:14:06,692
Yeah, in legal terms,
we like to refer to that as junk science.
1233
01:14:07,359 --> 01:14:10,088
I wouldn't put this
in the bucket of junk science.
1234
01:14:10,112 --> 01:14:13,591
These instruments out there
are research-grade.
1235
01:14:13,615 --> 01:14:16,469
They're relied upon very heavily
for, you know,
1236
01:14:16,493 --> 01:14:19,097
some of the world's
leading climate research.
1237
01:14:19,121 --> 01:14:22,308
And, you know,
one of the sort of rules of thumb
1238
01:14:22,332 --> 01:14:24,436
about data within ocean science,
1239
01:14:24,460 --> 01:14:27,397
or science in general,
is that data doesn't lie.
1240
01:14:27,421 --> 01:14:30,549
[ominous music playing]
1241
01:14:33,135 --> 01:14:34,946
[Nathan] When I first spotted
the Orient Lucky,
1242
01:14:34,970 --> 01:14:36,990
I wasn't sure that it was a ship,
1243
01:14:37,014 --> 01:14:38,950
uh, because all I saw was...
1244
01:14:38,974 --> 01:14:42,561
Looked like a white mass
standing up on the horizon.
1245
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:46,666
Uh, and I... my first thought
was actually rogue wave,
1246
01:14:46,690 --> 01:14:48,984
but then I realized
that it was too narrow.
1247
01:14:49,693 --> 01:14:51,254
Um, and then I...
1248
01:14:51,278 --> 01:14:54,007
So I actually went back
into the life raft,
1249
01:14:54,031 --> 01:14:56,551
took a second for myself,
and then popped back out
1250
01:14:56,575 --> 01:14:59,077
just to make sure I'm really seeing this.
1251
01:15:01,121 --> 01:15:05,101
I think that Nathan Carman knew that
that ship was coming out of Providence,
1252
01:15:05,125 --> 01:15:09,397
and it was going on that course
for an extended period of time
1253
01:15:09,421 --> 01:15:11,131
before he entered the life raft.
1254
01:15:11,798 --> 01:15:13,151
I don't think he entered that raft
1255
01:15:13,175 --> 01:15:15,219
until he knew
the Orient Lucky was gonna get him.
1256
01:15:16,220 --> 01:15:20,682
I believe that Nathan was only
in the life raft for a matter of hours
1257
01:15:21,558 --> 01:15:23,953
and not days, as he described it.
1258
01:15:23,977 --> 01:15:25,020
Hours.
1259
01:15:28,023 --> 01:15:31,711
There's a photo of Nathan waving.
1260
01:15:31,735 --> 01:15:34,738
The raft is inflated.
The canopy is inflated.
1261
01:15:35,322 --> 01:15:37,884
The next photo is Nathan in the water.
1262
01:15:37,908 --> 01:15:43,080
The canopy is collapsed.
Raft is starting to lose air.
1263
01:15:43,830 --> 01:15:46,309
Attempts were made to locate the raft,
1264
01:15:46,333 --> 01:15:48,418
but the raft was never located.
1265
01:15:49,169 --> 01:15:55,068
Presumably, Nathan took
some sort of action to sink the raft.
1266
01:15:55,092 --> 01:15:57,862
He had a knife on him in his life vest,
1267
01:15:57,886 --> 01:16:00,573
and he could have just cut it.
1268
01:16:00,597 --> 01:16:02,992
My interpretation of it at the time
1269
01:16:03,016 --> 01:16:10,041
was that Nathan did not want us
to see the condition of the life raft,
1270
01:16:10,065 --> 01:16:11,751
what was still on the life raft,
1271
01:16:11,775 --> 01:16:14,587
what equipment he did
or didn't have on the life raft,
1272
01:16:14,611 --> 01:16:17,257
because it may very well demonstrate
1273
01:16:17,281 --> 01:16:20,552
that he was not on that life raft
for seven days.
1274
01:16:20,576 --> 01:16:23,662
[pensive music playing]
1275
01:16:26,456 --> 01:16:28,768
[Liam] If he wasn't in a life raft
for seven days,
1276
01:16:28,792 --> 01:16:31,378
which I believe he was not,
1277
01:16:32,129 --> 01:16:33,380
then where was he?
1278
01:16:37,092 --> 01:16:41,722
I think the most
plausible scenario is that
1279
01:16:42,472 --> 01:16:45,851
shortly after leaving Point Judith
that night, on Saturday night,
1280
01:16:46,476 --> 01:16:48,729
he killed his mother,
1281
01:16:49,646 --> 01:16:54,526
at some point, disposed of her body,
1282
01:16:55,611 --> 01:16:58,590
most likely somewhere
nowhere near Block Island
1283
01:16:58,614 --> 01:17:01,908
and nowhere near where the Coast Guard
was searching for a good week.
1284
01:17:02,492 --> 01:17:06,014
Down south somewhere,
you know, mid-Atlantic area,
1285
01:17:06,038 --> 01:17:07,122
Long Island.
1286
01:17:08,165 --> 01:17:09,851
[Lisa] He could hide in plain sight
1287
01:17:09,875 --> 01:17:13,062
because he knew that the Coast Guard
weren't looking along the coast.
1288
01:17:13,086 --> 01:17:15,088
They weren't looking in marinas.
1289
01:17:17,215 --> 01:17:18,276
In all likelihood,
1290
01:17:18,300 --> 01:17:22,346
he motored along
to his own area of refuge.
1291
01:17:23,055 --> 01:17:26,159
He was familiar
with the Connecticut coastline
1292
01:17:26,183 --> 01:17:28,602
and the perimeter of Block Island.
1293
01:17:29,102 --> 01:17:32,582
There were any number
of nooks and crannies and places
1294
01:17:32,606 --> 01:17:36,193
that he could hide himself and the boat.
1295
01:17:37,402 --> 01:17:39,088
Then towards the end of the week,
1296
01:17:39,112 --> 01:17:42,383
after the Coast Guard
had called off their search,
1297
01:17:42,407 --> 01:17:46,304
he gets in the Chicken Pox,
guns it out to the open ocean...
1298
01:17:46,328 --> 01:17:50,165
He then got into the life raft
and scuttled the boat.
1299
01:17:50,791 --> 01:17:56,689
He would have sunk the boat shortly before
the freighter came within view,
1300
01:17:56,713 --> 01:17:59,484
um, so that he would be
properly positioned
1301
01:17:59,508 --> 01:18:02,403
to become rescued, um, immediately.
1302
01:18:02,427 --> 01:18:05,097
How in God's name does he do that?
1303
01:18:06,932 --> 01:18:10,078
Did he disappear?
Did he hide under a tree?
1304
01:18:10,102 --> 01:18:11,704
Did he hide under a rock?
1305
01:18:11,728 --> 01:18:14,540
What's the kid going,
here, there, he's evading the Coast Guard.
1306
01:18:14,564 --> 01:18:15,667
That's what they're saying.
1307
01:18:15,691 --> 01:18:19,504
And did he plan
that this Chinese junk ship
1308
01:18:19,528 --> 01:18:21,613
that just happened to be going by,
1309
01:18:22,322 --> 01:18:25,009
that almost ran him over, I understand,
1310
01:18:25,033 --> 01:18:26,886
that he would be picked up?
1311
01:18:26,910 --> 01:18:28,763
It... it's nonsense.
1312
01:18:28,787 --> 01:18:30,872
[intriguing music playing]
1313
01:18:32,290 --> 01:18:38,755
[Lisa] The ocean as a crime scene
is a challenging environment.
1314
01:18:39,381 --> 01:18:44,028
Evidence is lost and destroyed
in a matter of seconds.
1315
01:18:44,052 --> 01:18:49,909
Because he knew
that the odds were enormously high
1316
01:18:49,933 --> 01:18:52,912
that law enforcement
would never be able to find the boat,
1317
01:18:52,936 --> 01:18:54,020
let alone the body.
1318
01:18:56,022 --> 01:18:58,358
We believe the boat
is at the bottom of the ocean,
1319
01:18:58,900 --> 01:19:01,379
Linda's body
is at the bottom of the ocean,
1320
01:19:01,403 --> 01:19:06,259
and it could well be that
the weapon used to kill John Chakalos
1321
01:19:06,283 --> 01:19:08,160
is at the bottom of the ocean.
1322
01:19:14,750 --> 01:19:18,211
[Evan] The ocean's a place
that carries a lot of secrets.
1323
01:19:19,504 --> 01:19:23,175
There's no surveillance.
No cameras, no iPhones.
1324
01:19:32,684 --> 01:19:34,287
My foot was pushing the deck down,
1325
01:19:34,311 --> 01:19:37,081
rather than the ground
pushing up against me.
1326
01:19:37,105 --> 01:19:40,626
That's what it felt like
just for a moment.
1327
01:19:40,650 --> 01:19:47,216
And I remember being in the water, uh,
and seeing the roof of the wheelhouse,
1328
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:50,786
uh, sliding away, uh, like...
1329
01:19:51,787 --> 01:19:52,871
That is...
1330
01:19:54,372 --> 01:19:55,957
That's what happened.
1331
01:19:58,001 --> 01:19:59,669
[prosecutor] And where was your mother?
1332
01:20:01,087 --> 01:20:02,798
I-I did not see my mom.
1333
01:20:03,757 --> 01:20:05,943
[prosecutor] Well,
what did you hear from her?
1334
01:20:05,967 --> 01:20:07,052
What did she say?
1335
01:20:08,845 --> 01:20:10,490
I didn't hear anything.
1336
01:20:10,514 --> 01:20:13,391
[prosecutor] The boat's sinking.
Your mother still doesn't say anything?
1337
01:20:13,892 --> 01:20:15,227
That's your testimony?
1338
01:20:16,645 --> 01:20:20,315
My testimony
is that I did not hear my... my...
1339
01:20:22,317 --> 01:20:23,401
my mom...
1340
01:20:26,655 --> 01:20:29,741
I-I can't say whether my...
I can say I didn't hear her.
1341
01:20:30,867 --> 01:20:32,307
[prosecutor] And you didn't see her?
1342
01:20:35,539 --> 01:20:38,810
When I was in the water,
I did not see her. That's correct.
1343
01:20:38,834 --> 01:20:41,562
[prosecutor] Your mother's
a strong swimmer, isn't she?
1344
01:20:41,586 --> 01:20:42,605
Yes, she was.
1345
01:20:42,629 --> 01:20:45,233
[prosecutor] And she's
very safety conscious, right?
1346
01:20:45,257 --> 01:20:46,466
That's correct.
1347
01:20:47,968 --> 01:20:49,594
[prosecutor] Did she disappear?
1348
01:20:54,266 --> 01:20:56,893
Objection. Your question's ambiguous.
1349
01:20:57,811 --> 01:21:01,439
[haunting music playing]
1350
01:21:11,533 --> 01:21:13,511
[reporter 1] We begin At Five
with a shocking update
1351
01:21:13,535 --> 01:21:15,596
on a case we've been tracking for years.
1352
01:21:15,620 --> 01:21:19,559
The man charged with killing his mother
off the coast of Rhode Island has died.
1353
01:21:19,583 --> 01:21:23,271
[reporter 2] ...Nathan Carman was found
unresponsive in his cell overnight.
1354
01:21:23,295 --> 01:21:26,649
[reporter 3] Jail officials say
Nathan Carman took his own life
1355
01:21:26,673 --> 01:21:29,467
while awaiting
a murder-on-the-high-seas trial.
1356
01:21:32,846 --> 01:21:34,848
[pensive music playing]
1357
01:21:38,476 --> 01:21:41,414
[Charlene] He controlled how
he was gonna murder my father.
1358
01:21:41,438 --> 01:21:44,709
He controlled
how he was gonna murder my sister.
1359
01:21:44,733 --> 01:21:47,944
He didn't want to spend
the rest of his life in prison.
1360
01:21:48,445 --> 01:21:53,283
And so, you know,
he controlled taking his own life.
1361
01:21:53,909 --> 01:21:55,368
He went out on his own terms.
1362
01:22:02,959 --> 01:22:04,961
[gentle music playing]
1363
01:22:05,754 --> 01:22:09,317
[Clark] The autopsy said
that he committed suicide
1364
01:22:09,341 --> 01:22:13,178
by hanging from his shoelaces.
1365
01:22:15,305 --> 01:22:17,641
No suicide note.
1366
01:22:18,308 --> 01:22:20,119
There was no premonition.
1367
01:22:20,143 --> 01:22:26,000
There was no, uh,
foreboding of that in his, uh, attitude.
1368
01:22:26,024 --> 01:22:28,836
He was upbeat up until that point.
1369
01:22:28,860 --> 01:22:31,947
So I was totally in shock.
1370
01:22:34,491 --> 01:22:37,452
They're ready to go to trial...
1371
01:22:39,454 --> 01:22:44,459
and get a call
to find out your son just died.
1372
01:22:48,254 --> 01:22:49,315
[clicks tongue]
1373
01:22:49,339 --> 01:22:50,882
Just hard to accept.
1374
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:55,637
I still don't. [chuckles sadly]
1375
01:22:59,516 --> 01:23:02,662
[Linda Carman and young Nathan chattering]
1376
01:23:02,686 --> 01:23:07,983
[Clark] There is no way that Nathan
could have killed his mother.
1377
01:23:09,401 --> 01:23:14,382
It's incongruous
with everything that was innate
1378
01:23:14,406 --> 01:23:17,450
in both Linda and Nathan.
1379
01:23:19,452 --> 01:23:22,664
He, uh, never harmed a soul.
1380
01:23:24,416 --> 01:23:26,769
-[Linda Carman] Hey, Nathan James.
-What?
1381
01:23:26,793 --> 01:23:29,170
-[Linda Carman] I love you too much.
-Never too much.
1382
01:23:30,797 --> 01:23:33,192
We mourned... [sniffles]
1383
01:23:33,216 --> 01:23:37,846
The loss of Nathan as a child.
1384
01:23:39,639 --> 01:23:40,932
[clicks tongue] Um...
1385
01:23:42,517 --> 01:23:44,769
And everything he went through.
1386
01:23:46,438 --> 01:23:50,984
But we did not mourn, um, what he did.
1387
01:23:51,651 --> 01:23:55,071
We felt, um, however it happened,
1388
01:23:55,697 --> 01:23:57,991
um, justice was done. [sniffles]
1389
01:23:58,742 --> 01:24:00,886
[melancholy music playing]
1390
01:24:00,910 --> 01:24:05,474
Linda had said,
"I can only control my actions."
1391
01:24:05,498 --> 01:24:08,084
"I can't control anybody else's actions."
1392
01:24:09,169 --> 01:24:10,795
So I think she kinda knew.
1393
01:24:12,255 --> 01:24:16,009
And at that time, we alienated her.
1394
01:24:17,218 --> 01:24:20,138
She probably figured, you know...
1395
01:24:21,556 --> 01:24:25,995
[sniffles] "I don't have a family,
so do as you will."
1396
01:24:26,019 --> 01:24:27,312
I don't know.
1397
01:24:29,522 --> 01:24:31,042
[Chuck] People try to blame it on Linda.
1398
01:24:31,066 --> 01:24:34,295
They say, "Well, his mother
didn't do this or didn't do that."
1399
01:24:34,319 --> 01:24:37,447
Linda did the best job she could.
I think she was a good mother.
1400
01:24:37,947 --> 01:24:41,010
I mean, she cared about the kid.
She loved the kid.
1401
01:24:41,034 --> 01:24:42,827
That was her only son.
1402
01:24:44,370 --> 01:24:47,224
I think she looked
at her complicity in it,
1403
01:24:47,248 --> 01:24:50,752
and she was saying, you know,
"Whatever happens to me happens to me."
1404
01:24:51,836 --> 01:24:55,274
Maybe she figured, "This is a way
I don't have to turn on my son."
1405
01:24:55,298 --> 01:24:59,886
And she went...
you know, went to meet her fate.
1406
01:25:06,309 --> 01:25:08,895
[melancholy music continues]
1407
01:25:35,296 --> 01:25:38,800
[intriguing music playing]
1408
01:28:59,208 --> 01:29:00,335
[music fades out]