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This film was made
at a specific point in time:

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during the ongoing
"Sarkozy-Gaddafi" trial

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at the special judicial
court in Paris.

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Our role is not to establish
anyone's guilt.

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We are not judges.

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Only a court of law can examine

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incriminating and
exculpatory evidence

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and determine
whether a crime has been committed.

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All individuals
mentioned in this film

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are presumed innocent.

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The ambitious man
has as many masters

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as there are people
useful to his fortune.

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It's October 20, 2011,
on the outskirts of Sirte,

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in Libya.

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These are the final images
of Colonel Gaddafi's life.

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The death of the dictator
who ruled Libya for 40 years

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marked the end of a war

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that plunged the country
into political chaos

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and a cycle of devastating violence
that continues to this day.

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The war was conducted
under UN authority,

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but was promoted by
one country in particular, France,

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and the determination of one man,

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its president at the time,

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Nicolas Sarkozy.

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Even as the bombs were falling,

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two journalists

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launched an extraordinary
investigation.

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It lasted over ten years,

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and gradually revealed
both the extent of relations

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between Muammar Gaddafi
and Nicolas Sarkozy,

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and how different they were
from the official version.

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August 16, 2023 interview in
Le Figaro Magazine:

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"The French people can't even say
what I'm accused of.

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"No one can make sense of it."

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Sarkozy - Gaddafi:
the Scandal of All Scandals

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"Maybe some article gets written,
but that doesn't matter.

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"Why doesn't it matter?

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"Because then there's
another article,

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"and then another one

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"that says the opposite,
and no one can make sense of it."

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A Mysterious Email

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During the first half of 2011,

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an email arrived at Mediapart,

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from an unknown source who wrote:

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"I have something
that might interest you

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"concerning someone
you're writing about."

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We didn't yet know
what that something was.

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The person we were writing about

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was what's known politely
in political and business circles

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as an intermediary.

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If you're being nice,
you might say a wheeler-dealer.

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Less nice, as the law sometimes is:

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an agent of corruption.

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That man was Ziad Takieddine.

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The email got our attention,

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but required
my colleague Karl Laske and I

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to travel to a foreign country

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to see what kind of documents
were being offered.

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And we found ourselves looking at
Ziad Takieddine's digital archives.

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Back in the Mediapart offices,
Fabrice and I

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started examining
the archives we'd obtained.

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It was a hard drive

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with several thousand
documents on it.

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It had his tax forms,

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photographs of his holidays
with politicians,

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and every deal he had handled
in the previous ten years.

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There were details
about Libyan dossiers,

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Syrian dossiers, Saudi dossiers.

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His real estate holdings
were documented,

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since, as an intermediary,

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he had properties just
about everywhere,

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in London, France,
the French Riviera.

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There was even his own appraisal
of his assets:

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97 million euros.

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To understand Ziad Takieddine's role
in the affair,

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you need to go quite
far back in time.

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His name first appeared
in the French news

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in the context of a sensational
political-financial scandal:

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the so-called "Karachi Affair".

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In the mid-1990s,

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Ziad Takieddine, born into

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the upper echelons
of Lebanese society,

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acted as an intermediary

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in a gigantic sale
of French submarines

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to the Pakistani government.

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Ziad Takieddine
received colossal commissions,

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part of which returned to France

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during the presidential campaign
of Edouard Balladur,

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who, in 1995,

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had decided to run against
the designated right-wing candidate,

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Jacques Chirac.

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That same year, a young mayor

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who had just been appointed
budget minister,

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decided to join Balladur's camp

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and became the spokesman
for his campaign.

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A certain Nicolas Sarkozy.

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But the Balladur clan's hopes
were short-lived

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because Jacques Chirac
won the election.

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Ziad Takieddine's name
remained in the background,

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but we know that Chirac interrupted
the commission networks

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because he realized that the money

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had been used for
the Balladur campaign

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and that considerable fraud
had been committed

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around those arms contracts.
So he interrupted them.

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That was a story Mediapart
reported on a lot,

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and about
which we revealed a great deal.

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And we believed...

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how to put this...

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that Ziad Takieddine's
corruption saga,

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as understood by the courts,

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was limited to that time period,

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from 1993 to 1995,

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and to his relations
with countries like

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Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

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On May 8, 2002,

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an attack in Karachi, Pakistan,

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killed 14 employees
of the naval dockyards,

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including 11 French engineers
working on the submarines.

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To this day,
the courts continue to question

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whether the attack
was retaliation for

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the non-payment of
certain commissions.

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Mr. President, I'm with the AFP.

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According to information
reported yesterday,

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following a meeting
between plaintiffs

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in the Karachi bombing case

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and the investigating magistrates,

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there's talk of kickbacks to fund
Edouard Balladur's 1995 campaign.

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As budget minister,

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were you aware of
any such agreements?

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There's no point asking
a question like that from my right.

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Listen, that's ridiculous.

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Frankly, it's ridiculous.

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So Mr. Balladur accepted kickbacks
for his campaign

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that never got paid,
and then a bomb in Karachi?

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Let's respect the
pain of the victims.

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Who could believe such a tall tale?

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If there's a robbery
in Brussels today,

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I was here!

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Undeniable.

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Mr. President?

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Sorry, I'm not laughing,
because Karachi

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is the pain of the families

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and all that stuff.

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But what am I supposed
to say to that?

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From Karachi to Gaddafi

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After Jacques Chirac's victory,

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the whole Balladur clan
was sidelined from political life.

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Their crossing of the desert
lasted seven years.

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It only came to an end

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when Jacques Chirac
was re-elected in May 2002.

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Needing to close ranks on the right,

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Chirac's second term

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saw some Balladur
faithful return to favor.

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Among them was Nicolas Sarkozy,
who joined the government.

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Pardon me.

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Nicolas Sarkozy became
minister of the interior,

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and Ziad Takieddine,

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who had a magnificent
mansion in Paris,

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near the Place du Trocadéro,

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organized a sumptuous party

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to celebrate the return to power
of the Balladur loyalists,

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in particular Nicolas Sarkozy.

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In early 2011,

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when at Mediapart

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we gained access to
Ziad Takieddine's

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digital archives,

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it was like a digital
Ali Baba's cave.

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It helped us understand
that Ziad Takieddine -

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who we thought was a man
of a clan and an era -

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meaning the presumed
agent of corruption

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selling arms for the
Balladur government

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from 1993 to 1995 -

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was in fact a continuity,
a shadow element

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in a chapter in the history
of the French right

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that lasted for decades.

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In 2002, now France's top cop,

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Nicolas Sarkozy
was all over the media.

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Have you had enough
of all these punks?

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And very quickly showed
his true ambition.

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When you're shaving in the morning,

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you can think beyond
the Interior Ministry.

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Maybe about the
presidential election?

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Not only while shaving.

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Nicolas Sarkozy needed
his own network to rise to power,

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00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,400
and one might reasonably suspect

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that he needed
his own sources of funding.

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And that's how Ziad
Takieddine showed up

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on the radar of the Sarkozy team.

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As we delved deeper
into the documents

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that we came
to call the "Takieddine files",

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we saw a story starting to emerge

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about the political, diplomatic,

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00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,360
and economic history
between two countries,

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France and Libya,

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then ruled by dictator
Muammar Gaddafi.

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That story did not
seem to correspond

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to the official version,

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00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,480
the one the public knew,

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of the relationship
between the two countries.

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All the more so when
Nicolas Sarkozy,

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then minister of the interior,

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decided to run for president

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and then became the
French head of state

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00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:03,760
in 2007.

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00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,880
Trips to Libya

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Takieddine called himself
the "door opener",

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so he tried to open doors.

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He'd say:
"I open the doors to a country,

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"which is why I should get paid."

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00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:29,120
And so he "opened
the door" to Libya.

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Since Gaddafi came to power in 1969,

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00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,800
his Libya,

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00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,360
which claimed to be
socialist and pan-Africanist,

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00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,680
was more or less
openly at war with the West,

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00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,160
particularly
the United States and France.

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In 1976, Muammar Gaddafi wrote his
universal revolutionary theory,

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00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,640
The Green Book, advocating
power for the people

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00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,760
with Islam was confined
to a purely religious role.

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00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,280
Former French diplomat in Tripoli

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00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,880
Author of In the Heart
of Gaddafi's Libya

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00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,120
Libya was the first Arab country
to nationalize its oil reserves.

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It was one of Gaddafi's
first acts in 1969.

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He kicked out the multinationals.

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So he asserted his sovereignty
first by nationalizing oil and gas

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00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,720
and then by closing
British and American military bases

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that had been there since 1943.

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That's a partial explanation

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00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:40,680
for the persistent confrontation
with the imperialist powers,

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because Gaddafi defined himself

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as an anti-colonialist
and anti-imperialist.

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00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:50,360
At least against what he saw
as Western imperialism.

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00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,560
After the American bombing
of Tripoli in 1986,

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00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,640
the isolated Libyan state

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00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,960
pursued a policy
of deadly terrorist attacks

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00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,600
which led to its banishment
from the international community.

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00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,040
But in hopes of ending
the embargo against his country,

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00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:10,800
at the turn of the millennium,

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00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:12,560
the dictator declared

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00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:14,200
that he would renounce
both terrorism

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00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,080
and his nuclear weapons program.

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00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,080
I would place the end

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00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,960
of the "state
terrorism" era in 2001.

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00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,000
September 11, 2001,

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00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,880
was a real turning
point for Gaddafi.

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00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,120
He realized that the
world had changed,

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00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,800
that the American response
would be merciless,

247
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,840
and that he could
be next on the list

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00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,080
of terrorist states.

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00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,920
From 2003, with UN sanctions lifted,

250
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,640
Libya became the new El Dorado

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00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,280
for industrialists

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00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,600
from around the world.
Mainly Westerners, but not only.

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00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,560
So there was a real craze

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00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:06,520
for resuming trade relations

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00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,240
in every sector,
including security and the military.

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00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,800
And that's when Ziad Takieddine

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00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,800
really came into the picture.

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00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,880
He was the one who
took the first steps

259
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,120
in the Gaddafi-Sarkozy affair,
if I can call it that.

260
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,120
He made the first connections

261
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,160
and explored possibilities -
including, of course

262
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,960
since that's what
interested him most -

263
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,880
for secret commissions
and dark money.

264
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,000
We uncovered trade
and financial documents

265
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,120
that show a parallel diplomacy.

266
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,760
Ziad Takieddine was an agent
of secret diplomacy

267
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,520
to Libya.

268
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,560
It wasn't philanthropy,

269
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:57,520
he had a financial interest.

270
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,880
So he undertook trade negotiations

271
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,440
on a whole host of economic grounds,

272
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,200
from the sale of espionage equipment

273
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,800
to the sale of crude oil and more
with the Libyan dictatorship.

274
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,800
In Takieddine's archives,
we discovered

275
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,880
that his first contact,

276
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,040
and his main contact in Libya,

277
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:25,160
was Abdullah Senussi.

278
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:30,120
For 30 years,
Abdullah Senussi was involved

279
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,240
in the darkest and most dangerous
side of the regime.

280
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,680
He was the man who organized

281
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,920
the terrorist attacks
carried out by Libya in the 1980s.

282
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,480
One of the most deadly attacks
by the Libyan government

283
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,680
took place on September 19, 1989,

284
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,000
against a plane operated by
the French airline UTA.

285
00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,760
The flight from Brazzaville to Paris
exploded over the Ténéré desert,

286
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,080
killing all 170 people on board.

287
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,080
The investigation revealed
that the attack,

288
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,320
ordered by Colonel
Gaddafi's government,

289
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,200
was planned by Abdullah Senussi.

290
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,320
Abdullah Senussi
was Gaddafi's brother-in-law.

291
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,240
He belonged to a very large tribe
in the south, the Magarha,

292
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,160
which was allied
with Gaddafi's tribe

293
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,200
and is very influential
in southern Libya.

294
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:29,800
He's really...

295
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,880
the classic example
of someone who had both

296
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,400
family and tribal legitimacy.

297
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:43,160
He was the epitome of the henchman.

298
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,800
He knew everything.

299
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,080
He handled all the sordid affairs,

300
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,720
and he was behind the
terrorist attacks.

301
00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,880
He was a pillar of the regime.

302
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,240
In 1999,

303
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,800
Abdullah Senussi was sentenced
in France

304
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,480
to life imprisonment

305
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,560
for having masterminded the attack
on the UTA airlines DC-10.

306
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,320
An international arrest warrant
was issued for him.

307
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,520
It's dizzying that Takieddine

308
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,800
was in contact with Abdullah Senussi

309
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,520
because it meant he was in contact

310
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,080
with the most
dangerous man in Libya,

311
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:27,720
a man convicted by France.

312
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,000
He was absolutely
not to be associated with,

313
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,520
by any political leader.

314
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,800
But he would be associated with,

315
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,280
indirectly at first,
by Claude Guéant

316
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,560
and by Nicolas Sarkozy's team.

317
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,880
Claude Guéant, a former prefect

318
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,000
and previous head of
the French police,

319
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,680
was chosen by Nicolas Sarkozy
as his chief of staff

320
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,160
when he became
interior minister in 2002.

321
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,760
Guéant, a man as
level-headed and discreet

322
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,200
as Sarkozy is impulsive
and talkative,

323
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,080
became the conductor
of the Sarkozy machine.

324
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,960
They would work together
for nearly two decades.

325
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,080
We each have a specific role,

326
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,240
but we're used to working together.

327
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,280
No one takes offense
if one has ideas

328
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,160
about the other's sphere.

329
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,240
It was Ziad Takedienne who organized

330
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:26,920
a visit by Claude Guéant,

331
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:28,680
chief of staff to
Minister of the Interior

332
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,320
Nicolas Sarkozy,

333
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,440
in late September 2005.

334
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,800
It was a preparatory visit
during which Claude Guéant

335
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,880
worked with the Libyan authorities

336
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,080
to prepare Nicolas Sarkozy's
visit the following week

337
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,080
to Tripoli, the Libyan capital,

338
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,640
to meet the leader, Colonel Gaddafi,

339
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,160
who'd been dictator of the country
since the late 1960s.

340
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,400
That preparatory
visit by Claude Guéant

341
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,480
was very important

342
00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,960
because in his notes,

343
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,520
Ziad Takieddine wrote that
it had to be secret,

344
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:10,480
that neither
the Foreign Affairs Ministry,

345
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,760
nor Jacques Chirac,
nor Dominique de Villepin

346
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,800
could know anything about it.

347
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,400
The note indicates
the safeguards that were taken.

348
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,800
Guéant was warned
that it was essential

349
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,080
for the visit to remain secret,

350
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,120
and the note also states:
"It'll be easier

351
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:30,000
to talk about the other subject."

352
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,920
That other question was very likely
the financing of Sarkozy's campaign.

353
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,960
Claude Guéant, the chief of staff
of the interior minister,

354
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,200
and therefore of the French police
and domestic intelligence services,

355
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,040
met in secret,
in Tripoli in late September 2005,

356
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,200
the terrorist Abdullah Senussi.

357
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,760
It was a secret, behind the back
of the French diplomatic corps.

358
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,080
The French ambassador and diplomats
in Tripoli were unaware of it.

359
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,200
He met him without a bodyguard,

360
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,080
though with one other man,
Ziad Takieddine,

361
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:12,440
who served as an interpreter between
Abdullah Senussi and Claude Guéant.

362
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,480
One week after his chief of staff's
preparatory visit,

363
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,880
Nicolas Sarkozy went to Tripoli.

364
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,480
It was a whirlwind one-day trip.

365
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,080
Thank you for hosting
us during Ramadan.

366
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:36,280
Officially, the interior minister -
who has no diplomatic mandate -

367
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,880
had come to discuss issues
related to migratory flows

368
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:42,560
and terrorism.

369
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,480
But officials present
were surprised by

370
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,800
an unusual and lengthy tête-à-tête

371
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,520
between the two men,

372
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,440
off camera,

373
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,240
and with only their
interpreter present.

374
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,960
In fact, it was the beginning
of a Faustian pact

375
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:04,160
between Nicolas Sarkozy
and Muammar Gaddafi.

376
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,200
Gaddafi was aware of
Sarkozy's ambition

377
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:11,800
to become president of France

378
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,840
because Ziad Takieddine
had told him about it,

379
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,360
as the notes
in the Takieddine files show.

380
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,440
And he offered to
help Nicolas Sarkozy

381
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,400
win power in France.

382
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:32,760
It was a traditional practice
in the Gaddafi system

383
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:34,720
to compensate your guests,

384
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,280
to compensate armed groups
or leaders you want to support,

385
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,840
and perhaps candidates for positions

386
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,160
or elected office in
foreign countries.

387
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:50,840
So it was a common practice
in the Gaddafi system.

388
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,800
Gaddafi saw Nicolas
Sarkozy as a new player.

389
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,240
I think he rather liked him,

390
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:06,040
so he wanted to do the right thing,
to restart the relationship

391
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,080
with a new president.

392
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:10,760
On that day,

393
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,120
Muammar Gaddafi
asked Nicolas Sarkozy

394
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,160
for a gesture from France

395
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,840
to improve Abdullah Senussi's
legal situation.

396
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,920
Muammar Gaddafi
asked Nicolas Sarkozy

397
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,560
to find a legal solution,

398
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:32,720
maybe even to get the arrest warrant
against Abdullah Senussi lifted.

399
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,880
Sarkozy knew that
Senussi's situation

400
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,480
wasn't just a personal issue
for Senussi.

401
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,400
It was a state issue for Libya.

402
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,320
Gaddafi's regime was personal,
but he was also a "weak dictator",

403
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,520
meaning he was
dependent on networks.

404
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,440
He controlled the tribes,

405
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,200
but he was also
controlled by the tribes.

406
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,560
And by his family.
There were tensions within the clan.

407
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,640
So he was torn
by those different interests.

408
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:08,000
And Abdullah Senussi
could talk to everyone in the clan.

409
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,840
So it was particularly important

410
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,040
with regard to honor, to image,

411
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,480
and for internal balance
within the regime,

412
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:23,280
that Gaddafi obtain
a kind of amnesty

413
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,240
for such an eminent
figure in the regime.

414
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:35,840
We discovered that,

415
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,080
only one and a half months

416
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,200
after Nicolas Sarkozy's
trip to Libya,

417
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:45,480
his personal attorney and friend,

418
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,400
the famous Paris
lawyer Thierry Herzog,

419
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,120
travelled to Libya.

420
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,160
In late November 2005,

421
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,080
he met with Abdullah Senussi's
criminal defense team.

422
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,520
The discussion was about ways

423
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,480
the arrest warrant
could be gotten rid of.

424
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,640
We know this through considerable
material evidence,

425
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,000
notably a report of
the meeting in Libya

426
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:15,960
between Senussi's men

427
00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:19,040
and Nicolas Sarkozy's lawyer,

428
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,320
who would also become

429
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,440
Abdullah Senussi's
lawyer for a time.

430
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:29,320
On December 22, 2005, precisely,

431
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,800
a close friend of Sarkozy,
Brice Hortefeux,

432
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,920
then French minister
for local authorities,

433
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:39,240
went in turn

434
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,280
to Tripoli, the capital of Libya.

435
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,960
Known as the most
faithful of the faithful,

436
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:46,960
Brice Hortefeux was
Nicolas Sarkozy's

437
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:48,800
longest-serving lieutenant.

438
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,160
His loyalty was rewarded
with an appointment, in June 2005,

439
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,520
as minister delegate
for local authorities

440
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,040
under the authority of
Nicolas Sarkozy.

441
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,600
Like Claude Guéant
three months earlier,

442
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,280
Brice Hortefeux met secretly
with Abdullah Senussi in Tripoli,

443
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,080
in exactly the same circumstances:

444
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:12,800
without diplomats present,

445
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,000
without informing the embassy,

446
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:16,320
without a bodyguard,

447
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,000
without a translator,

448
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,320
but always with the same man,

449
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,000
the wheeler-dealer intermediary

450
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,640
and alleged agent of corruption,

451
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,040
Ziad Takieddine.

452
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,280
And that day, according
to two of the three people present,

453
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,720
Ziad Takieddine and
Abdullah Senussi,

454
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,680
this time the discussion was about
financing from Gaddafi's Libya

455
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,160
to Sarkozy's team

456
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,800
for the 2007 presidential election.

457
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,400
Guéant: "I had no specific knowledge
of Abdullah Senussi's situation

458
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,960
"and didn't know
I was going to meet him."

459
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,280
Hortefeux: ‶I didn't know
the details of his conviction

460
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,240
"and was totally unaware of
the international arrest warrant.″

461
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,160
Asked about his meeting
with Senussi's representatives,

462
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,760
Thierry Herzog did not reply,

463
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,240
claiming ‶attorney-client
privilege″.

464
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,880
Hortefeux and Guéant
claim ‶traps″ were set for them,

465
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,200
one each, three months apart.

466
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,480
Nicolas! Nicolas!

467
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,440
In early 2007,

468
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,040
Nicolas Sarkozy,
who had become leader

469
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,520
of the UMP party two years earlier,

470
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,640
launched his presidential campaign.

471
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,280
Breaking with tradition,

472
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,480
Nicolas Sarkozy was thinking big,
and ran an American-style campaign.

473
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,040
It was a time of
virtuous declarations.

474
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,120
A democracy beyond reproach
is a president

475
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,880
who says beforehand
all he plans to do,

476
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,840
and, above all, does afterwards
everything he said he'd do before.

477
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,280
That is democracy beyond reproach.

478
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,160
I want France to
defend human rights.

479
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,160
I believe it deep down.

480
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,920
I don't want and don't believe in
what's known as realpolitik,

481
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,920
which leads you to
abandon your values

482
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,760
without winning a single contract.

483
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,480
I won't to be an accomplice

484
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,200
to any dictatorship anywhere.

485
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,160
With such powerful statements,

486
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,360
on May 6, 2007,

487
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,640
Nicolas Sarkozy was elected to be

488
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,800
the sixth president of
the Fifth Republic.

489
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,040
Across the Mediterranean,
the congratulations were warm,

490
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,920
full of hope and promise.

491
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,920
Transcript of a phone call

492
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,720
12 days after Nicolas
Sarkozy was elected

493
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,520
Gaddafi: Hello, Mr. President.

494
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,320
Congratulations again on winning
the confidence of the French people.

495
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:43,640
Sarkozy: Hello, Mr. Guide.

496
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,000
I retain a wonderful memory
of the quality of your analysis.

497
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,800
Gaddafi: We are reassured to have
a friend in Europe now.

498
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,200
Sarkozy: Who should I meet with
to discuss sensitive issues?

499
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,560
Is it Mr. Bashir?

500
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,440
Gaddafi: Yes, Bashir.

501
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,200
You can reach an
agreement directly...

502
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,360
Sarkozy: Right, Mr. Guide.

503
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,200
I'll meet with Mr. Bashir
and find an agreement with him.

504
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,120
Gaddafi: Goodbye, Mr. President.

505
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,480
Sarkozy: Goodbye, Mr. Guide.
I'm counting on your prayers.

506
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:16,240
I don't pray the same way you do,
but we pray to the same god.

507
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,280
A few days later,

508
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,240
Muammar Gaddafi offered
the new French president

509
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,120
the release of five Bulgarian nurses
and a Palestinian doctor

510
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,360
who'd been jailed in Libya
for several years.

511
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,680
Their ordeal had moved
international opinion.

512
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,680
And so an official French plane

513
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,080
landed in Bulgaria on July 24, 2007,

514
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,440
returning the prisoners to freedom.

515
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,640
But surprise,

516
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,120
the event was also a marital one.

517
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,880
Cécilia Sarkozy,
the president's wife,

518
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,480
had been entrusted by
him with working out

519
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,960
the last details of their release.

520
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,200
I wanted to tell
you how happy we are

521
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,240
about the end of this long ordeal

522
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:03,560
endured by five women.

523
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,520
You'll also understand

524
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,960
that I want to congratulate Cécilia
for her remarkable job.

525
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,040
A short but nonetheless
sincere statement.

526
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,720
Barely 24 hours later,

527
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,320
Nicolas Sarkozy flew to Libya.

528
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,080
The new French president

529
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,960
devoted his first official visit
to the guide of the revolution,

530
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:29,880
Colonel Gaddafi.

531
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,960
The French president
and the Libyan dictator

532
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,360
were enjoying a public honeymoon.

533
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,920
The high point of their friendship
would come six months later:

534
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,280
Muammar Gaddafi's
official visit to France.

535
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,680
On December 10, 2007,

536
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,560
Muammar Gaddafi's plane
landed at Orly airport.

537
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,760
For the first time in 35 years,

538
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,680
the former godfather of terrorism

539
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,600
received a prestigious welcome

540
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,920
in a major Western capital.

541
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:21,800
Diplomatic practice in France is for
official visits to last three days.

542
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:27,040
Muammar Gaddafi asked to extend his
for three more.

543
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:29,800
And so for six days,

544
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,800
the dictator,
who pitched his Bedouin tent

545
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,640
in the gardens of the Republic,

546
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,800
crisscrossed Paris from
one tourist destination to another.

547
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,200
Gaddafi the tourist
is having a whale of a time.

548
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:42,760
Bateaux-mouches, Eiffel Tower,

549
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,120
30 minutes at the Louvre,
including three with the Mona Lisa,

550
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,120
an hour at Versailles,
a dream for his Amazonian guard...

551
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,880
He's been to Versailles,
to the Louvre.

552
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,600
His clothes and schedule change,

553
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,600
but one thing is constant:
the traffic jams.

554
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,320
Sister of Jean-Pierre Klein,
victim of the DC-10 attack

555
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,640
Founder of the
Association of Terrorism Victims

556
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,400
For us, and for me particulary,

557
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,200
it was a grotesque period.

558
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:14,200
We had no idea what was going on.
It was insane.

559
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:15,800
The tent,

560
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,720
Paris shut down, Versailles,

561
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:25,040
Gaddafi in the cold weather
with his fur coat and hat.

562
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,280
It was incomprehensible to us.

563
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,840
The pomp and circumstance deployed

564
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,880
for the dictator
shocked public opinion

565
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,880
and scandalized deputies
in the National Assembly,

566
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,320
as well as some members
of the government.

567
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,840
The defuse the controversy,

568
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,760
the indispensable Claude Guéant
was sent to the front.

569
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,280
Has Colonel Gaddafi reformed enough

570
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,400
to justify such a
reception in France,

571
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,200
one that no other
major Western nation

572
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,840
has yet granted him?

573
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,480
He was welcomed as are

574
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,720
all other heads of
state visiting France.

575
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:01,720
But the efforts of
the chief of staff

576
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,600
to the French president

577
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,280
did not quell the controversy
that was growing by the day.

578
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,360
To silence the carping,

579
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,040
Nicolas Sarkozy played his joker.

580
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,560
It's all very well the talk
and posturing about human rights

581
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,520
at the Café de Flore
and the Zenith arena.

582
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,880
Gone was the criticism
of realpolitik

583
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,040
winning out over values.

584
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,240
I'll be signing tens of billions
in contracts

585
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,600
with our Libyan counterparts.

586
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:32,520
It's about French jobs and growth.

587
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,520
And he staged for the press,

588
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,280
with Muammar Gaddafi's
jovial complicity,

589
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,160
the signing of contracts with Libya
for a stated value of

590
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,240
a total of 10 billion euros.

591
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,760
There was talk of
billions in contracts

592
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,320
that would fill France's coffers

593
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,480
and provoke a tidal wave of growth
in the French economy.

594
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,640
Almost no one believed it.

595
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,680
For us, the victims of the DC-10,

596
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,160
the most unbelievable
was the invitation

597
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,520
from Sarkozy,

598
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,960
because he did the inviting.

599
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,640
The pomp,
all the time spent with him,

600
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,280
the impression
that Gaddafi was everywhere,

601
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,880
and that we couldn't
get away from him.

602
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,320
We couldn't make sense of it.

603
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,120
In the end,

604
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,640
Nicolas Sarkozy,
the French president,

605
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,280
accepted us at -
or rather invited us to -

606
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:36,560
the Elysée Palace on
the last day Gaddafi was in Paris,

607
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,880
to meet us and talk to us.

608
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,680
That meeting was quite incredible

609
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,040
when you think back on it,

610
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:51,080
but at the time it
calmed us in a way.

611
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,400
Nicolas Sarkozy took the time
to listen to us.

612
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,880
And I remember him saying,
more than once:

613
00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,760
"You're wonderful people."

614
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:01,920
And we took it at face value.

615
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,160
And we needed to.

616
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,200
Nicolas Sarkozy had
just been elected,

617
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,800
a young president,

618
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,000
and he received families
affected by a terrorist attack.

619
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,880
And now we discover
that the same man

620
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,760
had been elected thanks to money

621
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,280
received from the people who killed

622
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,640
our brothers, sisters,
mothers, families.

623
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,600
In hindsight,
if what is coming to light now,

624
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,120
what we know from the investigation,

625
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,160
proves to be true,

626
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,640
that moment
when he received the families

627
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,480
makes it even worse.

628
00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,280
Nicolas Sarkozy gave Muammar Gaddafi
what he wanted most,

629
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,400
and what he was prepared
to pay dearly for:

630
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,640
for Libya to become
a respectable country again,

631
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,600
one that a great
democracy like France,

632
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,160
home of the Declaration
of the Rights of Man,

633
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,320
can talk to.

634
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,680
The man who made that possible

635
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,880
for Muammar Gaddafi
was Nicolas Sarkozy.

636
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,400
As his official visit to France
was drawing to a close,

637
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,680
Colonel Gaddafi could never

638
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,800
have known that,
just four years later,

639
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,320
his relationship
with the French president

640
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,280
would change abruptly.

641
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,200
The Warmonger

642
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,680
During the wave of Arab Spring
popular revolts

643
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,600
that began in Tunisia,

644
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,040
riots broke out in Benghazi,
in eastern Libya,

645
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,960
in February 2011.

646
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,320
It was the beginning of a civil war.

647
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,160
To the surprise of all,

648
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:03,800
Nicolas Sarkozy

649
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,280
was the first head
of state to receive

650
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,040
and recognize
the opponents of Colonel Gaddafi

651
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,680
as the only legitimate
power in Libya.

652
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,440
And just four years after hosting
Muammar Gaddafi with great fanfare,

653
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,040
the French president began
a diplomatic offensive

654
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,880
to obtain
UN Security Council authorization

655
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,880
for a military
intervention in Libya.

656
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,600
We have a job to do within
a very specific legal framework,

657
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,560
that of the United Nations:

658
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:31,920
avoid deaths.

659
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,600
That was the context

660
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:40,520
in which Muammar Gaddafi
made the rather strange statement

661
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,600
that if Nicolas Sarkozy
bombed his country,

662
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,080
he could reveal "an
important secret".

663
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,240
That secret was revealed
a few days later

664
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:57,080
by one of the dictator's sons,

665
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,680
Saif al-Islam.

666
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:04,120
When asked about France's eagerness
to intervene in Libya militarily,

667
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,120
to content
of his statement was explosive.

668
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,840
First of all,
Sarkozy should return the money

669
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,680
he accepted from Libya
to fund his campaign.

670
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,360
We financed his campaign,
and we have the proof.

671
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,040
We can reveal everything.

672
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,200
We demand that the clown

673
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,280
return that money to
the Libyan people.

674
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,280
It provoked
very little political comment.

675
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:35,200
People imagined it was one of
the dictator's final boasts.

676
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,640
Since it was made at
the start of a war

677
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,920
and by a regime dignitary,

678
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,880
we interpreted it with caution.

679
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,080
Nevertheless, we're journalists.

680
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,400
At Mediapart,
we had the digital archives

681
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,600
of Ziad Takieddine

682
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,440
that provided us with
specific elements

683
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,560
with which to understand
the reality of Franco-Libyan history

684
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,600
from the early 2000s,

685
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,880
a reality that did not correspond
to the official narrative

686
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,400
provided by France
under Nicolas Sarkozy.

687
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,440
The documents showed

688
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,320
that the narrative
wasn't quite accurate,

689
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,480
and many factual elements

690
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:23,040
in Takieddine's archives
corroborated the idea

691
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,600
of the possible
corruption of the future

692
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,080
French president by the dictator.

693
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:34,640
A patient effort of verification

694
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,400
enabled us,
by the summer of 2011,

695
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,960
to publish a first round of articles

696
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,840
revealing a relationship -
initially incomprehensible -

697
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,960
between Nicolas Sarkozy
and Muammar Gaddafi.

698
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,200
The Dirty Truth of Sarkozy-ism

699
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,320
"Takieddine Affair:
Arms Merchant's Assets Frozen"

700
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,000
"Takieddine Documents:

701
00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,560
Sarkozy Emissary
Secretly Paid by Total"

702
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:02,840
On March 18, 2011,

703
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,680
a UN resolution established
a no-fly zone, prohibiting Gaddafi

704
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:08,640
the use of his air force.

705
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,160
It was immediately interpreted
by France and its supporters

706
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,440
as an authorization to bomb
the Libyan armed forces.

707
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,200
Thus began a war that
even the Americans

708
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,840
called "Nicolas Sarkozy's war".

709
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,840
There are questions
about the war in Libya

710
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,080
that are still unanswered today.

711
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,960
Among those unanswered questions

712
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,600
is the choice by France to undertake
certain bombing raids.

713
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,600
For example, in August 2011,

714
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:51,280
French planes bombed
Abdullah Senussi's private home

715
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,800
in a residential area of Tripoli,

716
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,600
killing at least one civilian.

717
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,040
Was Abdullah Senussi's home in

718
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,960
a residential area,
next to a school -

719
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,600
and where he was not even present -
a military objective?

720
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,200
"To suggest that France unilaterally
launched raids against a convoy,

721
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:15,640
"home, or any target

722
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,440
"is an absurdity

723
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,120
that does not stand
up to any analysis.

724
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:24,440
"The multinational staff of NATO
makes those decisions."

725
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:28,840
Although the war

726
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,160
was only supposed
to last a few days,

727
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,400
it took six months for Tripoli
to fall into rebel hands.

728
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,840
Gaddafi, on the run,
was nowhere to be found.

729
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,360
But two months later, his convoy,
identified by the Americans,

730
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,840
was bombed by French planes.

731
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,280
The dictator was captured

732
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,280
and assassinated
on October 20th near Sirte.

733
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,000
Do you have any reaction
to the death of Mr. Gaddafi?

734
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:11,800
The objective

735
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,640
is for Libya to regain its freedom

736
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,800
and hope for democracy.

737
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,920
Under the Rubble

738
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,320
The war left the country devastated,

739
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,680
divided among political factions
and Islamists,

740
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,880
and in a state of political chaos
that continues to this day.

741
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,120
And Muammar Gaddafi's
"important secret"

742
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,800
could have disappeared forever
under the rubble.

743
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,640
So the war ended,

744
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,880
notably with the death of Gaddafi.

745
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:02,840
His followers
were either dead or on the run.

746
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,280
We took several trips

747
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:12,080
to Cairo, to Tunisia.

748
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:17,120
We were looking to meet members
of the former regime,

749
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,760
hoping to interiew them,

750
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,560
to see documents, and so on.

751
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,400
During our investigation,

752
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,960
we came across a document in 2012

753
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:39,120
that had escaped the bombing
during the war in Libya.

754
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,080
The document was signed

755
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:46,040
by a very important man
in the Libyan hierarchy,

756
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:47,720
a man named Moussa Koussa.

757
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,160
He had led the Libyan
foreign intelligence service.

758
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:57,040
The document laid out
how the authorities had agreed

759
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,280
to finance Nicolas
Sarkozy's campaign

760
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,400
to the tune of 50 million euros,

761
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,200
and that he, Koussa,

762
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,480
approved that decision
by the General People's Committee.

763
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,760
In short, it shows the intent

764
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,720
to finance Nicolas
Sarkozy's campaign.

765
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,760
The memo refers to a meeting
attended on the Libyan side

766
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,080
by Abdullah Senussi
and Bashir Saleh,

767
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:25,880
Muammar Gaddafi's chief of staff,

768
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:30,040
and on the French side by
Brice Hortefeux and Ziad Takieddine.

769
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,560
It reports that an
agreement was reached

770
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:37,200
on an amount the Libyan regime
was prepared to contribute

771
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,680
to Nicolas Sarkozy's campaign.

772
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,480
When you're holding such a document,

773
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:47,160
it obviously burns your fingers.

774
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,520
But it's not because
it burned our fingers

775
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,720
and supported clues
we'd already gathered

776
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,200
that it was true.

777
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,400
So we had to verify the document.

778
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,840
We returned to Paris,
had it translated

779
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,200
a first time, then a second time.
We showed it to experts,

780
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:10,120
to authenticate the date,
the official stamps, etc.

781
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:15,160
We met a number of official sources,
French and Libyan,

782
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:21,320
who allowed us to formally confirm
the authenticity of the document.

783
00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:24,440
Nicolas! Nicolas!

784
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,920
Nicolas Sarkozy was still unaware of

785
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,120
the ongoing evaluation
of the Koussa memo.

786
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:30,840
For him,
the war in Libya was already

787
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,280
a distant memory.

788
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,320
His attention was on
a new presidential campaign.

789
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:37,400
Running for re-election,

790
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,960
he held rally after sumptuous rally.

791
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,960
I'll be criticized
and I'll be attacked,

792
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,440
but I don't care because
I told the truth.

793
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,200
At the newspaper,

794
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,480
we were in a very
difficult situation.

795
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:59,280
The timing was very delicate
for us as journalists,

796
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,520
and made us very uneasy.

797
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,000
We had a large amount
of verified information.

798
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,760
And it was between the two rounds

799
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,400
of the election
Sarkozy was running in.

800
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,520
Should we publish or not?

801
00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:15,280
As president, I will ensure

802
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,360
the justice system
operates independently.

803
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,840
As president,
I will ensure my behavior

804
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,760
is exemplary at all times.

805
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:25,040
Let me tell you,

806
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,280
the office of the president
is not a normal office.

807
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,000
But in fact,
the presidential campaign

808
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,840
obliged us to publish
the elements we had.

809
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,440
It was the moment of choice,

810
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,360
the moment when political positions
were being debated,

811
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:47,520
positions that included questions of
transparency, of financing...

812
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,760
So in a way,
that document entered fully

813
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,480
into the field
of the presidential debate.

814
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,320
"Sarkozy-Gaddafi: Proof of Funding"

815
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,600
Mediapart published
the Moussa Koussa

816
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,760
memo on April 28, 2012,

817
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:05,040
between the two rounds
of the presidential election.

818
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:07,960
Nicolas Sarkozy was
questioned publicly

819
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,680
for the first time

820
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,680
about the financing
of his 2007 campaign.

821
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,160
Last question before
opening to the audience:

822
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,480
Online sources affirm
that Colonel Gaddafi

823
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,680
financed your 2007 campaign.

824
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:20,880
Is that true?

825
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,040
If he did, I wasn't very grateful.

826
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,560
His son, Saif al-Islam,
claims you received money

827
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:30,760
from the Gaddafi family.

828
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:32,680
A moral reference, I'm sure.

829
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,960
I pity you for being a spokesperson
for Gaddafi's son.

830
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,160
When you quote Mr.
Gaddafi, his son -

831
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:40,720
Mr. Gaddafi is dead -

832
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:42,600
his son, who has blood on his hands,

833
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,240
part of a regime of dictators,

834
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,280
of murderers,
that has no credibility,

835
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:52,440
and when you give voice
to the questions he asked,

836
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,440
frankly,
I think that's going very low

837
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,280
in the political debate.

838
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,000
Very soon afterwards,

839
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,120
Nicolas Sarkozy denied it,

840
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:09,040
and announced that he would
lodge a complaint against us.

841
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,800
And he did in fact file a complaint
in the following days.

842
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,680
His response was very muscular,

843
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,720
and accused us of publishing
a fake document.

844
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,560
For three and a half years,

845
00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:26,640
Mediapart had to wage a legal battle
against Nicolas Sarkozy,

846
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,560
and against Brice Hortefeux,
who joined the complaint,

847
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:33,600
to prove that we did our work well

848
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,800
and that the document
was not a forgery.

849
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:37,400
The justice system,

850
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,960
from the examining magistrates

851
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,280
to the appellate court

852
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,680
to the court of cassation,

853
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,880
which is the highest
court in France,

854
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:53,680
all of them, three times,
formally declared that the document

855
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:55,720
was not a forgery,

856
00:48:55,720 --> 00:48:57,600
contrary to the claims
of Nicolas Sarkozy.

857
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,520
- It's a fake.
- Made by whom?

858
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,880
First, Mediapart lies all the time.

859
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,000
And what is Mediapart?
A tool.

860
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,160
- Of whom?
- You know very well. Of the left.

861
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,120
The document is a crude forgery.

862
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,520
Why do you say that?

863
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:19,160
Because the two people in Libya
who supposedly sent and received it

864
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:20,960
have refuted it.

865
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,680
Nicolas Sarkozy didn't limit himself

866
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,240
to repeating that the
document was fake.

867
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,280
He and his lawyers
quickly provided a denial

868
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,120
from one of Gaddafi's
closest associates,

869
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,160
Bashir Saleh,
the recipient of the Koussa memo.

870
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:41,000
Bashir Saleh was no stranger
to Nicolas Sarkozy.

871
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,480
Let us recall the conversation
between Muammar Gaddafi

872
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,720
and the newly-elected
president of France.

873
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,360
Transcribed phone call from
12 days after Sarkozy's election

874
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,200
Sarkozy: Who should I meet with
to discuss sensitive issues?

875
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:56,960
Is it Mr. Bashir?

876
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:57,920
Gaddafi: Yes, Bashir.

877
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:58,760
You can reach an
agreement directly...

878
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,000
Bashir Saleh was the man
Nicolas Sarkozy hugged

879
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,160
when he got off the plane in Tripoli

880
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,000
in July 2007.

881
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:11,320
During the war in Libya,

882
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,160
Bashir Saleh was arrested
by the Libyan rebels.

883
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,040
He was to stand trial,
accused of a number

884
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:18,800
of crimes and misdemeanors,

885
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,520
including embezzling
and corruptly spending

886
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,200
the public funds of
the Libyan people.

887
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:30,920
But while he was in the custody of
the new Libyan government,

888
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,240
the French secret services,
the DGSE,

889
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:35,400
organized his exfiltration.

890
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,960
In other words, we removed him

891
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,200
from the Libyan authorities
that we put in place

892
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:46,880
to enable him to escape justice
in his own country

893
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:48,960
and to reach France...

894
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:53,440
...where he was welcomed
by the Sarkozy clan.

895
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:59,240
He received
a temporary residence permit,

896
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:03,640
and was sheltered
until things settled down.

897
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,000
As the newspaper was under attack
by the Sarkozy clan,

898
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,280
the press discovered
that Bashir Saleh was in France,

899
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,640
protected by French authorities,

900
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,120
even as he was the target
of and Interpol arrest warrant.

901
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:22,600
That created a lot of confusion
in the executive branch,

902
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,680
which had to say both:

903
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:31,160
"Yes, he received a
residency permit",

904
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:33,040
and "But we'll look for him anyway."

905
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,040
Bashir Saleh denied
receiving the memo.

906
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,120
But he's wanted by Interpol

907
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,280
while living in France,

908
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,320
as confirmed by
Libération this morning.

909
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:47,080
- Can you confirm that?
- That's not quite accurate.

910
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:50,160
First, you say he's
wanted by Interpol,

911
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,960
but we have no trace
of an international

912
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,640
arrest warrant for Mr. Bashir Saleh.

913
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,080
The press affirmed it on Saturday.

914
00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:00,480
Perhaps, but I presume the French
government would be aware of it.

915
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,880
What happened next?

916
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,160
It was between the
two election rounds,

917
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,880
and something happened that was
straight out of a film.

918
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,360
Once again, France

919
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,800
organized the exfiltration
of Bashir Saleh.

920
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:20,680
The scene revolved
around two characters:

921
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:22,640
the intermediary Alexandre Djouhri,

922
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,880
and Sarkozy's head
of domestic intelligence,

923
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,160
a man named Bernard Squarcini.

924
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:34,000
The two men met near
the Eiffel Tower

925
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,760
in early May 2012,

926
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,200
and discreetly organized -

927
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,840
via private jet -

928
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:46,280
the exfiltration, indeed the escape,
of Bashir Saleh,

929
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,280
even as he was wanted
under an Interpol red notice.

930
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,040
The Second Man in the Shadows

931
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,400
The man who exfiltrated Bashir Saleh

932
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,440
was the second intermediary
in the secret negotiations

933
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,160
between the Libyan dictatorship
and Nicolas Sarkozy's team.

934
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,360
A rival of Ziad Takieddine named

935
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,160
Alexandre Djouhri.

936
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,880
Though suspected in his youth
of belonging to criminal gangs,

937
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:24,200
albeit never convicted,

938
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:26,160
Alexandre Djouhri
deployed a gift of gab,

939
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:27,760
know-how, and a lot of nerve

940
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,080
to end up doing deals

941
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:34,240
among the French elite.

942
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,520
Initially linked to
Jacques Chirac's entourage,

943
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,320
he gradually grew closer to
Nicolas Sarkozy's clan.

944
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:45,840
Good evening, Alexandre Djouhri.

945
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:48,440
Good evening, David Pujadas.

946
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,240
Thank you for receiving us
here in London,

947
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:52,800
and for granting this interview.

948
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,880
For 30 years, you've been a
behind-the-scenes man,

949
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,000
a discreet, even secretive man,
mixing with heads of state

950
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,080
as well as major business figures.

951
00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:03,640
In fact, how would you define
your profession?

952
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,960
You reject the term "intermediary".

953
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:06,880
Absolutely.

954
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:09,800
He was the second character

955
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:12,680
who participated,

956
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:17,120
on the French side,
in Nicolas Sarkozy's campaign.

957
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,840
You have Mediapart
explaining in an article

958
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,080
that there was financing
for the campaign

959
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,200
because a guy called Senussi,

960
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,800
who was sentenced in absentia
to life imprisonment

961
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:28,840
for the attack on the UTA DC-10,

962
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:30,720
and Saif Gaddafi,
apprentice dictator

963
00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:32,440
with blood on his hands...

964
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,720
- The son...
- Yes, Gaddafi's son.

965
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,360
And a guy called Ziad Takieddine,
who you can't blame

966
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,160
because he's fit for the asylum.

967
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,120
Alexandre Djouhri had
a lot of contacts,

968
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:45,800
a network,

969
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:49,120
and in the police,
he had Bernard Squarcini.

970
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,200
Extract from a wiretap between

971
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,720
Alexandre Djouhri
and Bernard Squarcini

972
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:55,880
Hello.

973
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:57,520
Yeah, Bernard...

974
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:58,800
Yeah, Alex, how's it going?

975
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,280
- You didn't call me back?
- Oh, shit.

976
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:06,120
I was caught up at LVMH
and completely forgot. Sorry.

977
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:09,720
- Hello?
- Hi, Alex.

978
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,240
- Hi, Bernard.
- I'm waiting for an answer.

979
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,600
He still hasn't named
a date or anything.

980
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:16,640
He asked me 10 days ago
who I'm coming with,

981
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,600
and I said with
Nicolas and Claude's friend.

982
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,960
- When did you call him?
- Over the weekend. Yesterday.

983
00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:25,080
Tell him it's urgent.

984
00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:28,360
We really have to do this,
go on attack.

985
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,280
I get it, you silly jackass.

986
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:32,440
I get it, OK.

987
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,280
- Talk soon. Bye.
- Ciao.

988
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,680
"I have no business
relationship with him...

989
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:44,600
"But a guy like that, who mixes
with bigwigs, you've got to see him.

990
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,320
"He's the interesting piece
of the puzzle."

991
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:53,760
The Squarcini-Djouhri connection
is another highly problematic one.

992
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:57,040
Having the head of
domestic intelligence

993
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,200
in your pocket, or "with you",

994
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,560
when you're running
such operations is a big deal.

995
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:05,600
You have information
about your adversaries,

996
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:09,440
about what's going on
in various places.

997
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:11,680
It's a major intelligence service,

998
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:16,440
and Djouhri put the relationship
to good use

999
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,240
on many levels and
on many occasions.

1000
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,760
You've reached Bernard Squarcini.
I'm not available right now.

1001
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:27,960
Please leave a message and

1002
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,040
I'll call you back
as soon as possible.

1003
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,720
Commando Bernard, attack!
Call me back.

1004
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,000
I'm in the starting blocks.

1005
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,880
Following the
revelations by Mediapart,

1006
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,520
Alexandre Djouhri
was questioned about

1007
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,000
his role in exfiltrating
Bashir Saleh

1008
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,560
between the two rounds
of the 2012 election.

1009
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:50,960
Bashir Saleh is a gentleman

1010
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,920
who had an appointment in Niger.

1011
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,960
He told me: "I'm going to leave.

1012
00:56:57,120 --> 00:56:59,440
"I have a meeting,
and I'll be back."

1013
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,240
I didn't know he wasn't coming back.

1014
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:05,440
From Niger,
Bashir Saleh fled to South Africa.

1015
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:07,360
Over the years,

1016
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,000
he's been questioned regularly about

1017
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,520
Libyan funding for
Sarkozy's campaign.

1018
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,120
If I gave to Sarkozy,
I'd say I gave it.

1019
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,560
We never gave money to Sarkozy.

1020
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,960
I'm not the person
responsible for that

1021
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,240
because my hands are empty.

1022
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:24,280
In fact, Bashir Saleh

1023
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:27,800
knows he owes his life
to Nicolas Sarkozy's France.

1024
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:32,680
And for years, Bashir Saleh was
one of Nicolas Sarkozy's trump cards

1025
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,200
in the Libyan financing scandal,

1026
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,080
serving as a witness
for the defense.

1027
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,880
Does the fact
that France helped you flee Libya

1028
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,640
make you indebted
to Nicolas Sarkozy?

1029
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,400
And is that why

1030
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:50,720
you deny any possible funding
of his campaign by Libya?

1031
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,680
In other words, do you owe him?

1032
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:54,760
No, no.

1033
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:56,800
I only tell the truth.

1034
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,880
But over time, Bashir Saleh

1035
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,720
became less and less
a witness for the former president.

1036
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:05,440
And in late 2017,

1037
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,840
with journalist Nicolas Vescovacci

1038
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,160
on the program "Cash Investigation",

1039
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,520
Bashir Saleh admitted
for the first time

1040
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:16,360
that there had been financing
of Nicolas Sarkozy's campaign.

1041
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,240
I think he gave money.

1042
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,840
Senussi said he gave money
to Nicolas Sarkozy.

1043
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,400
But with whom?
Not me! It's not my department.

1044
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:30,160
Could it be a bank transfer
via an offshore company?

1045
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,680
No one accepts transfers.

1046
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:35,560
You think Sarkozy
would accept a transfer?

1047
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,560
- So it could only be cash?
- Only cash.

1048
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:44,280
And then, just as he was beginning
to change his position

1049
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:46,600
on the affair,

1050
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,880
Bashir Saleh was targeted
in an attack in South Africa.

1051
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:57,080
He was shot by a gunman
while driving his car.

1052
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,800
Miraculously, he survived,

1053
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:03,680
despite being shot several times
in the torso.

1054
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,240
Bashir Saleh's
somewhat distant revelations

1055
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,200
didn't garner much attention.

1056
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,880
But another character,
the one at the origin of this story,

1057
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:17,120
made new statements
that resonated like thunderclaps.

1058
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,960
Witness for the Prosecution

1059
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,800
Yes, Mr. Sarkozy

1060
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,720
was financed by Libya.

1061
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,160
Yes, he is corrupt.

1062
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:36,360
Yes, let him deny it.

1063
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,720
Let Mr. Sarkozy deny it.

1064
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,400
Ziad Takieddine felt abandoned
by Sarkozy's people.

1065
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:44,600
He was abandoned by them,

1066
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,680
even denounced by
Guéant in an interview.

1067
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,080
He engaged in a test
of strength with

1068
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,840
the Sarkozy team in
a rather public way.

1069
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,480
I can tell you that I know very well

1070
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,080
where everything is,

1071
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:00,880
and I know very well when and how
it will come out.

1072
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:05,920
Ziad Takieddine is a man
who came up alongside

1073
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:08,040
part of the French right.

1074
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,840
First Balladur's people,
then Sarkozy's.

1075
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,160
He became very rich thanks to them,

1076
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,400
but he was replaced at some point.

1077
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:19,320
Mr. What's-his-name? Djouhri!

1078
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:21,840
Complicit with Mr. Guéant!

1079
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,240
Complicit in all the dirty deals
of this Republic.

1080
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,520
When Ziad Takieddine's name

1081
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:30,120
got a little too hot
for the political scene

1082
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,120
due to its association
with the Karachi affair,

1083
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:37,960
he experienced what many people
in his shoes experience:

1084
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:39,120
he became a fuse

1085
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:41,600
and he was blown.

1086
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:46,200
But Ziad Takieddine was
one of those people who say:

1087
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:48,680
"If I'm going down,
I'm not going alone."

1088
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,800
- Was money paid out?
- Yes.

1089
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:52,120
By whom?

1090
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:54,960
By the Libyan authorities,
specifically Muammar Gaddafi.

1091
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:57,760
- To whom?
- Nicolas Sarkozy and Claude Guéant.

1092
01:00:57,920 --> 01:00:59,960
- Directly?
- Directly.

1093
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:01,200
How?

1094
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,160
Via bank transfers and cash.

1095
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,760
Ziad Takieddine's
thundering accusations

1096
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,240
reached the ears of prosecutors,

1097
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,080
and two years after
Mediapart published

1098
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,320
its first articles about the affair,

1099
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:18,000
the legal system decided
to take up the case

1100
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:20,240
and open a criminal investigation.

1101
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:29,080
The Law Gets Involved

1102
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:33,240
Specialized police,
specialized prosecutors,

1103
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,240
and specialized investigating
magistrates

1104
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:38,640
tried in turn

1105
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,760
to document the events.

1106
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:42,600
They have the means

1107
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:46,920
that the press obviously -
and fortunately! - does not.

1108
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:53,240
And the investigation
patiently began to confirm

1109
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,120
what Mediapart had been saying
for two years.

1110
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,280
Investigators heard
a lot of testimony

1111
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:02,520
and uncovered a number of documents

1112
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:04,240
that not only confirmed

1113
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:09,360
but even amplified
what we had started to expose

1114
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:12,000
in the Sarkozy-Gaddafi affair.

1115
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:14,400
From the outset of
the investigation,

1116
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,080
the special officers
of the anti-corruption office

1117
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:19,040
took an interest in Claude Guéant.

1118
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:21,880
During a search of his home,

1119
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:24,720
they discovered
in one of his bank accounts

1120
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:27,680
traces of a 500,000 euro payment

1121
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:29,920
originating in Malaysia.

1122
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,960
The funds were paid in 2008,

1123
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:35,920
3 months after Gaddafi's
visit to Paris.

1124
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:39,360
Claude Guéant
immediately invested the money

1125
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,480
in the purchase of an apartment
near the Eiffel Tower.

1126
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,080
The former presidential
chief of staff

1127
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:47,200
under Nicolas Sarkozy

1128
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:50,080
claimed the payment

1129
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:52,000
was for the sale of
two small canvases

1130
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:53,760
by a Flemish painter.

1131
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,760
It was a completely
banal transaction.

1132
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:01,800
I simply sold
two paintings that I had acquired

1133
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,880
some twenty years earlier,
and that's all.

1134
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:06,240
Unfortunately,

1135
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:11,520
Claude Guéant was unable to prove
he had ever owned the paintings.

1136
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,960
The judges even spoke
of a "fictitious sale".

1137
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:16,920
The paintings story was a flop,

1138
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,120
and what's more,
the financial trail

1139
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,680
was traced from the original account

1140
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:24,320
to another account,
then a third one,

1141
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:25,640
a fifth one...

1142
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:31,200
The courts now suspect that
Alexandre Djouhri and Bashir Saleh

1143
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:33,560
were behind the transaction.

1144
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:36,840
That Libyan money,
found in the account

1145
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,440
of one of Sarkozy's
closest collaborators,

1146
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:41,640
provided the courts

1147
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:43,760
with a rationale for
continuing to search

1148
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:45,760
for traces of Libyan financing.

1149
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,080
And another clue
reached the investigators.

1150
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:52,400
To understand it,

1151
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,160
we'll need to go back a few years.

1152
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:00,760
April 29, 2012,

1153
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:03,360
between the two rounds
of the election,

1154
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:05,600
and less than 24
hours before Mediapart

1155
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:07,720
published the Koussa memo.

1156
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:09,400
That day,

1157
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:12,280
the lifeless body of one of Libya's
greatest dignitaries,

1158
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,320
former Minister of Oil
Shukri Ghanem,

1159
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:18,440
was found floating
in the Danube in Vienna.

1160
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,520
The Austrian police investigation

1161
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,520
was very basic and concluded
the death was an accident.

1162
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:29,160
Shukri Ghanem had been walking

1163
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:31,960
in the middle of the night
and fell into the Danube

1164
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:34,200
and drowned.

1165
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:39,040
As it happens,
American intelligence officials

1166
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:41,520
believe the death was suspicious

1167
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,520
and that a crime was committed.

1168
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,000
Four years after his death, in 2016,

1169
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,760
a copy of Shukri Ghanem's
personal diaries

1170
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,320
reached the desks
of the French investigators.

1171
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,840
Among Shukri Ghanem's
handwritten notes

1172
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:00,080
was one that's been authenticated

1173
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,200
by several European police forces.

1174
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,040
It was written in his diary

1175
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:10,600
in April 2007.

1176
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:15,040
In it, he reported
meeting with Bashir Saleh

1177
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:20,520
and having "taken stock"
of the financing operations

1178
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:22,320
for Nicolas Sarkozy.

1179
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:24,600
"Saleh said he transferred
1.5 million to Sarkozy.

1180
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:27,080
"Saif [al-Islam Gaddafi]
gave Sarkozy 3 million,

1181
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,400
"and 2 million went
via Abdullah Senussi."

1182
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:31,960
Shukri Ghanem wrote detailed notes,

1183
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:36,080
indicating that several leaders
had contributed to the financing:

1184
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,320
Bashir Saleh himself,

1185
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:40,880
Saif al-Islam Gaddafi,

1186
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:42,520
and Abdullah Senussi.

1187
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:46,040
That handwritten note from
the Libyan minister of oil

1188
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,520
revealed that,
following a political agreement,

1189
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,960
Muammar Gaddafi had mandated
each of the three men

1190
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:54,040
to contribute a share

1191
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:56,680
to the financing
of Nicolas Sarkozy's campaign.

1192
01:05:56,840 --> 01:06:01,480
The document contradicted
one of Nicolas Sarkozy's arguments,

1193
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:05,480
that "this Gaddafi-Libyan
financing business"

1194
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:08,760
was made up by Gaddafi's people
during the war.

1195
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:11,000
That argument
could have been legitimate.

1196
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:13,720
Gaddafi loyalists
in the dictatorship

1197
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:16,240
were panicking about
being overthrown,

1198
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:18,360
so they accused France -

1199
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:21,840
which was the country
most committed to the war -

1200
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:25,400
of having been corrupted by them.
Basically, it was a smokescreen.

1201
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,160
It's a theoretically
acceptable argument.

1202
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:33,320
But if one of the leaders
of Gaddafi's regime

1203
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:34,600
wrote in 2007

1204
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:36,800
about payments

1205
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,840
related to the
presidential election,

1206
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:41,880
that completely
undermines that story.

1207
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:43,680
They couldn't have known in 2007

1208
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:45,760
that there would be a war
four years later.

1209
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:48,480
The Gaddafi gang,

1210
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:50,840
which is a gang of assassins -

1211
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:52,800
the father,

1212
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:54,640
the son,

1213
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:55,960
the nephew,

1214
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:57,160
the cousin,

1215
01:06:57,320 --> 01:06:58,560
the spokesman,

1216
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,000
the mistress, the brother-in-law -

1217
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:03,880
are heaping insults
and slander upon me.

1218
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,040
When did it start?
The French people need to know.

1219
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:09,440
On March 10, 2011,

1220
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:11,520
I received Gaddafi's opponents,
the NTC,

1221
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:13,440
at the Elysée Palace.

1222
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:15,160
On March 11th,

1223
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:18,040
Mr. Gaddafi stared talking about
financing my campaign.

1224
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:19,440
Never before.

1225
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:22,560
For four years,
he never said a word about it.

1226
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,640
Nicolas Sarkozy's outraged denials

1227
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:27,560
got more media coverage

1228
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,320
than Shukri Ghanem's posthumous
revelations.

1229
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:36,640
But Ziad Takieddine
would soon make new claims

1230
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:38,360
about his role in the affair

1231
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:40,800
that would violently upend

1232
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:43,120
the former president's
defense strategy.

1233
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,760
A suitcase like so.

1234
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:49,400
It opens this way.

1235
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:52,160
And the money's inside.

1236
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:57,840
One day Mr. Sarkozy asked me
if I could

1237
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:00,920
be the one who

1238
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:06,240
could transport some of the money to

1239
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:08,640
Claude Guéant from Interior.

1240
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:12,200
I started thinking about
what I'd cover it with

1241
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:14,560
to hide it, if there was space.

1242
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:16,640
He said: "Don't worry,

1243
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,640
"the services have been informed,

1244
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,800
"so you can enter with it
and deliver it to Mr. Guéant."

1245
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:26,160
What was in the suitcase, exactly?

1246
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:28,320
Nothing other than money.

1247
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:32,800
In the first one there was about
1.5 million.

1248
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:36,880
Ziad Takieddine explained
that he transported, three times,

1249
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:39,320
funds to the Interior Ministry

1250
01:08:39,440 --> 01:08:43,840
in November and December 2006
and January 2007.

1251
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,320
They asked me because
they trusted me.

1252
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:49,400
So I took it and delivered it.

1253
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,800
He incriminated himself by saying:
"I, Ziad Takieddine,

1254
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,760
"I picked up cash in Tripoli

1255
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,240
"and I took it
to the Interior Ministry."

1256
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:02,400
He spoke of three trips,
for a total of five million euros,

1257
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:06,960
given to him by Abdullah Senussi,
him again,

1258
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:11,320
to take to Paris,
to the ministry on Place Beauveau.

1259
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:14,760
He was very precise and detailed
in his accounts.

1260
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:17,120
He recounted the
scenes at the airport,

1261
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,320
the bags,

1262
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:23,280
the handovers -
twice to Claude Guéant,

1263
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:28,320
and once,
he affirmed, to Nicolas Sarkozy.

1264
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:32,960
Did Mr. Sarkozy know why
you were dropping off the suitcase?

1265
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:35,160
Did he know what was inside?

1266
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:38,720
Frankly, of course!

1267
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,040
Claude Guéant,
who contests the events,

1268
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:46,960
obtained a conviction for defamation

1269
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:51,120
against Ziad Takieddine.

1270
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,320
Nicolas Sarkozy chose to withdraw
just before the trial.

1271
01:09:55,440 --> 01:09:57,680
Mediapart was acquitted.

1272
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:05,800
Ziad Takieddine's revelation
came alongside another one,

1273
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,600
a sort of a posteriori
cross-checking:

1274
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:12,920
the revelation of
Abdullah Senussi's deposition

1275
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:15,280
before the International
Criminal Court.

1276
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:20,520
Abdullah Senussi,
the planner of the DC-10 attack,

1277
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:23,160
was arrested in March 2012
in Mauritania,

1278
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:26,040
then extradited and
imprisoned in Libya.

1279
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:28,800
Before the International
Criminal Court,

1280
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:31,600
he claimed to have
personally supervised

1281
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,280
the transfer of five million euros,

1282
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,240
via Ziad Takieddine
and Claude Guéant,

1283
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:40,680
to finance Nicolas Sarkozy's
presidential campaign.

1284
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:45,040
It's exactly what Ziad Takieddine
accused himself of,

1285
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,080
without knowing that
Abdullah Senussi

1286
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:49,000
said the same thing

1287
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:51,240
to the International Criminal Court.

1288
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:53,560
Once again,
is that definitive proof?

1289
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:55,440
No.

1290
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:57,840
But it did constitute
a compelling body

1291
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:00,080
of evidence for the
French legal system.

1292
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:06,520
Confronted with the serious facts
established by the investigation,

1293
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:09,520
Nicolas Sarkozy fought back
every inch of the way,

1294
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:11,640
appealing to public opinion

1295
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,840
and claiming an offense against
his status as former head of state.

1296
01:11:15,440 --> 01:11:19,560
A simple question about what
you mentioned last night:

1297
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:24,280
did you or did you not
receive cash from Libya

1298
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:26,280
to finance your 2007 campaign

1299
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:29,040
as Ziad Takieddine claimed,

1300
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:32,360
not only to the media,
but to French magistrates yesterday?

1301
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:35,240
Such indignity.

1302
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:38,320
On a public television station.

1303
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:40,680
You talked about it
yourself yesterday.

1304
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:44,840
You're not ashamed to quote a man
who's been in prison,

1305
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:48,560
who's been convicted countless times
for defamation,

1306
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:50,240
and who's a liar.

1307
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:53,400
That is not how I think
of the public service media.

1308
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:06,280
In the wake of those revelations,

1309
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:11,320
the investigators starting looking
for cash all over the place.

1310
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:16,840
In all of these major corruption,
influence-peddling,

1311
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,520
and hidden political
financing cases,

1312
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:23,800
one question always comes up,
that of the cash.

1313
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:28,560
Why? Because it's always used
for a very understandable reason:

1314
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:30,760
it leaves no trace.

1315
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:34,360
The investigators looked
into the movement of cash

1316
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:36,760
within the UMP and Les Républicains.

1317
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:38,680
Why so much cash?

1318
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:43,680
Evidence accumulated
about cash in a closet

1319
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:46,040
at the HQ of Les Républicains.

1320
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:50,360
It became clear that,
at the end of the campaign,

1321
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:54,760
all of the bonuses and
end-of-contract payments

1322
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,360
were paid in cash.

1323
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,960
According to one
legal expert's report,

1324
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:04,240
it came to the modest sum
of 250,000 euros.

1325
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,840
Which means that at the very end
of the presidential campaign,

1326
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,240
the campaign coffers
still contained,

1327
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:13,520
in large denominations,

1328
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:15,840
250,000 euros in cash.

1329
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,760
That amount should
be taken as evidence

1330
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:21,560
of the massive circulation

1331
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:24,560
of cash during
the presidential campaign,

1332
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:26,800
and an indication of
what may have been

1333
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:28,880
circulating earlier.

1334
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:31,200
But where did that money come from?

1335
01:13:32,440 --> 01:13:35,400
Campaign treasurer Eric Woerth
claimed the big denominations

1336
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:38,720
were from anonymous donations
sent through the post office.

1337
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:41,440
Where are the bank documents?

1338
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:42,680
The transfers?

1339
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:46,320
There are no documents,
no photos, no accounts.

1340
01:13:46,440 --> 01:13:48,360
There's no physical evidence.

1341
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:50,600
There's only hatred,

1342
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:52,160
mud,

1343
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:55,400
mediocrity, spite, and slander.

1344
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:04,320
The Hidden Friend

1345
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:08,880
During the official investigation of
the Sarkozy-Gaddafi affair,

1346
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:12,520
the magistrates discovered that

1347
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:17,520
Ziad Takieddine had created
an offshore company,

1348
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:21,160
as they're known,

1349
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:24,000
that was called Rossfield Limited.

1350
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:26,840
In February 2006,

1351
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:30,000
there's a record of a payment

1352
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:34,560
to an account labelled "Olin".

1353
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:37,960
O-L-I-N.

1354
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,880
At the same time,
in another legal inquiry,

1355
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:46,040
police were looking into tax fraud

1356
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:48,960
by a long-time collaborator
and friend of Nicolas Sarkozy,

1357
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:50,600
Thierry Gaubert.

1358
01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:54,760
In 1988, Nicolas Sarkozy

1359
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:57,360
officiated at the marriage
of Thierry Gaubert.

1360
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:00,200
He was a close associate
in Neuilly local government,

1361
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:03,040
and would later become
Sarkozy's deputy

1362
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:04,960
chief of staff at
the Budget Ministry.

1363
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,640
Thierry Gaubert, a close friend
of Ziad Takieddine,

1364
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,240
was also implicated
in the Karachi affair

1365
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:14,720
and sentenced in 2020

1366
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:16,800
to four years in prison.

1367
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:19,320
He has appealed the conviction.

1368
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:25,000
It was revealed that he held several
undeclared accounts abroad,

1369
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:27,760
in Switzerland and the Bahamas.

1370
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:30,120
And then I remembered
that the village

1371
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:31,520
in Columbia,

1372
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:34,240
where, in 2011,
Karl and I discovered

1373
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:38,040
Gaubert's sumptuous property
hidden away from the taxman,

1374
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:41,560
is called Nilo, N-I-L-O.

1375
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:46,200
Nilo is Olin spelled backwards.

1376
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:51,520
And then I found a record

1377
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:54,880
from February 2006

1378
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:59,240
of a payment of 440,000 euros

1379
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:03,280
from a company called
Rossfield Limited.

1380
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:07,760
I thought, "This is incredible!"

1381
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:11,640
It was exactly the same amount,
the same date,

1382
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:15,000
and the same name
as Ziad Takieddine's company

1383
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:19,440
that was used to transfer
the Libyan money.

1384
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:21,320
For the first time,

1385
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:25,160
we had a bank record
of a financial flow

1386
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:28,640
that left the Gaddafi dictatorship

1387
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:31,040
and arrived in the
account of someone

1388
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:33,280
close to Nicolas Sarkozy in France.

1389
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:35,080
It was unequivocal.

1390
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:37,320
It went from Senussi to Takieddine

1391
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:40,000
to Thierry Gaubert's account.

1392
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:42,040
Thierry Gaubert,

1393
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:46,760
like many others,
wrote little notes in his calendar.

1394
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:52,040
We noticed that,
a day or two before the transfer,

1395
01:16:52,200 --> 01:16:53,880
he'd written "NS campaign".

1396
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:55,560
For the investigators
and magistrates,

1397
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:57,080
it was like an admission

1398
01:16:57,240 --> 01:16:59,160
that he was also involved

1399
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:02,200
in Nicolas Sarkozy's
presidential campaign.

1400
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:06,240
Note the following comment:
"Ns - campaign"

1401
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:07,720
Thierry Gaubert
claimed he didn't know,

1402
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:09,080
he forgot,

1403
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:12,840
campaign could mean anything...

1404
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:16,440
He tried to duck the question
in a ridiculous way,

1405
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:20,520
since it's hard
to claim that "NS campaign"

1406
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:23,680
had nothing to do with
Nicolas Sarkozy's campaign.

1407
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:26,280
Gaubert denied involvement
in the campaign.

1408
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:27,560
About the annotation, he said:

1409
01:17:27,720 --> 01:17:29,640
"It's a capital 'N'
and lowercase 's',

1410
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:31,560
not capital 'N' capital 'S',

1411
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:34,720
"so maybe it's not Nicolas Sarkozy.

1412
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:37,720
'Campaign' could mean
lots of things."

1413
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:41,160
So in December 2019,

1414
01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:43,520
we revealed in Mediapart

1415
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:47,880
the missing link
in the Sarkozy-Gaddafi affair:

1416
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:50,520
the payment of a half-million euros

1417
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:54,560
from Senussi to Takieddine
and all the way to Thierry Gaubert.

1418
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:00,240
The Gaubert-Senussi transfer
in the Libyan affair

1419
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:02,520
was an event from
the legal point of view,

1420
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:05,200
since Nicolas Sarkozy,
when questioned

1421
01:18:05,200 --> 01:18:07,720
in the media a few years earlier,

1422
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:10,960
had very boastfully asserted

1423
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:13,720
that "not a single bank transfer
has been uncovered!"

1424
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:17,240
Where are the bank documents?
Where are the transfers?

1425
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:21,240
It turns out that there was
at least one bank transfer,

1426
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:23,120
for 440,000 euros,

1427
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:26,320
demonstrating the existence of
a financial flow from Libya

1428
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:29,280
into French pockets,
and not just any pockets,

1429
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:31,960
but those of Nicolas Sarkozy's
hidden friend.

1430
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:36,320
"I've had no personal
relationship with

1431
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:38,080
Thierry Gaubert since 1996.

1432
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:40,840
"What I'm telling you
is the absolute truth."

1433
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:46,040
During searches, investigators found
many elements -

1434
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:50,280
invitations, lunches,
gifts, meetings -

1435
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:52,480
that in their view attested to

1436
01:18:52,480 --> 01:18:54,600
"relational continuity
out of proportion"

1437
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:57,280
to what was claimed
by the former president.

1438
01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:00,880
On March 21, 2018,

1439
01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:03,160
after being held 48 hours
for questioning,

1440
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:06,840
Nicolas Sarkozy was indicted
in the Libyan affair,

1441
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:08,200
on charges of corruption,

1442
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:10,680
receiving embezzled public funds,

1443
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:14,000
and illicit financing
of an electoral campaign.

1444
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:16,400
The former head of state

1445
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:20,200
took the opportunity to denounce
a conspiracy by the judiciary.

1446
01:19:20,440 --> 01:19:22,280
It had been his go-to
defense strategy

1447
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:24,120
for several years already.

1448
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:28,760
Nicolas Sarkozy breaks his silence

1449
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:30,760
in an editorial in
tomorrow's Le Figaro.

1450
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:34,560
The former president, responding
to investigators' accusations,

1451
01:19:34,720 --> 01:19:37,160
compares the surveillance of himself

1452
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:39,600
to Stasi practices in
former East Germany.

1453
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:41,680
The best defense is a good offense.

1454
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:45,200
Nicolas Sarkozy dips his nib
in exceptionally violent ink.

1455
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:47,520
"Surveillance worthy

1456
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:49,440
of the East German
Stasi and a dictator."

1457
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:53,080
He presents himself
as wounded and angry...

1458
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:03,280
Honorary Public Prosecutor
to the Court of Cassation

1459
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:05,720
It's a constant
among today's politicians,

1460
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:09,120
and the tactic sometimes pays off.

1461
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:13,560
It consists of trying to discredit
the proceedings

1462
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:15,880
by questioning

1463
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:19,760
the integrity and motives
of the prosecuting attorney.

1464
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:21,600
I've observed it now for 20 years.

1465
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:23,960
I felt the situation
was serious enough

1466
01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:26,200
to tell the French people

1467
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:28,160
the extent of

1468
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:32,640
the political instrumentalization
of part of the judicial system.

1469
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:35,520
Things are being organized,

1470
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:37,960
and the French people need to know,

1471
01:20:38,440 --> 01:20:41,120
and with full freedom of conscience,

1472
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:42,920
they need to judge for themselves.

1473
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:45,480
I believe in the
honesty and sincerity

1474
01:20:45,480 --> 01:20:47,880
of magistrates

1475
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:49,440
and public prosecutors.

1476
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:51,760
I've always believed

1477
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:54,520
that a good magistrate
has to be courageous,

1478
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:56,760
and that courage is
an intrinsic virtue

1479
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:58,880
required of a magistrate,

1480
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:00,560
notably a good one.

1481
01:21:00,720 --> 01:21:05,800
Courage allows you to make decisions

1482
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:07,560
that may not be popular.

1483
01:21:07,720 --> 01:21:11,320
I've sometimes had to make decisions
that politicians didn't like.

1484
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,160
You do it anyway.

1485
01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:15,640
I am the victim of relentless attack

1486
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:18,240
and of a justice system
instrumentalized

1487
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:20,680
to destroy me
and keep me out of politics,

1488
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:22,760
in the same way and
at the same time.

1489
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:24,720
The French are no fools,
they can see

1490
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:27,280
that it's all to weaken
Nicolas Sarkozy.

1491
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:32,040
In order to function,
democracy needs -

1492
01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:34,960
whether it makes
everyone happy or not -

1493
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:36,680
it needs a strong legal system,

1494
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:38,080
one that's independent,

1495
01:21:38,240 --> 01:21:43,040
that upholds the law
and the principles of the Republic,

1496
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:45,040
and that protects people's freedom.

1497
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:47,160
That's what the law is all about.

1498
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:51,680
When you embody an institution,
particularly at the highest levels,

1499
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:55,080
that's the state of mind required.

1500
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:58,280
And myself, as a citizen,

1501
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:01,280
it's what I expect
from the people I elect.

1502
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:03,200
What country do we live in

1503
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:05,760
where a former head of state

1504
01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:08,320
can be subjected for months on end

1505
01:22:08,440 --> 01:22:12,200
to the surveillance
of his most personal conversations?

1506
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:15,760
Attacks on the legal system
by certain politicians

1507
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:20,320
discredit the Republic

1508
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:23,560
and undermine public confidence
in the institution

1509
01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:25,120
and in democracy.

1510
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:26,680
It's extremely serious.

1511
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:29,360
It's even more serious
coming from a president

1512
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:31,640
who is charged,
under the constitution,

1513
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:34,240
with guaranteeing the independence
of the judiciary.

1514
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:38,240
So he should be the last person
to make such remarks.

1515
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:40,120
A few years ago,

1516
01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:41,560
the chief appellate judge

1517
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:43,720
violently took a political stand

1518
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:45,840
against me.

1519
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:48,000
Violently and by name.

1520
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:51,040
Do you consider it normal,
Mr. Toussaint,

1521
01:22:51,200 --> 01:22:54,120
for a judge who judges you
to be a political opponent?

1522
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:57,600
On October 16, 2020,

1523
01:22:57,760 --> 01:22:59,680
after four days of hearings,

1524
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:02,600
Nicolas Sarkozy was
indicted a second time

1525
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:04,960
in the Libyan financing case,

1526
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:07,040
on a charge that could deprive him

1527
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:08,960
of his civil rights:
criminal conspiracy.

1528
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:14,760
The new indictment gave rise to the
habitual attacks from his camp

1529
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:16,160
against the legal system.

1530
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:17,800
I hear he's in custody
for questioning

1531
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:19,320
and think, "Again?"

1532
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:22,160
I think the case will be dismissed.

1533
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:23,720
Once again he'll be tarnished,

1534
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:25,280
but when he's cleared

1535
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:26,680
he'll get just one
line in the press.

1536
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:29,160
It feels like a republic of judges,

1537
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:32,040
and the judges
want to get Nicolas Sarkozy.

1538
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:34,760
As I said yesterday,
the national financial crimes office

1539
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:36,960
is not a prosecutor's office.

1540
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:39,560
It's a political tool.

1541
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:41,840
And we need to know
who it's working for.

1542
01:23:44,360 --> 01:23:46,200
And less than a month later,

1543
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:50,600
the judicial conspiracy theory
suddenly found favor with the media

1544
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:54,320
thanks to a spectacular
turn of events.

1545
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:03,560
"Save Sarko"

1546
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:08,640
We're going to show you a document.
Nicolas Sarkozy's main accuser

1547
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:10,640
has changed his story.

1548
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:13,160
This video was shot in Beirut

1549
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:15,640
by Paris-Match and BFMTV.

1550
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:18,280
Have a look.

1551
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:21,120
Mr. Sarkozy did not
receive Libyan funds

1552
01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:23,760
for his presidential campaign,

1553
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:25,920
and Mr. Gaddafi
couldn't have provided

1554
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:27,960
them because he never did that.

1555
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:30,600
I say that loud and clear.

1556
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:34,040
The 32-second video,

1557
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:36,000
filmed beside the marina in Beirut,

1558
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:38,040
where Ziad Takieddine fled after

1559
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:39,920
being sentenced to
five years in jail

1560
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:41,400
in the Karachi affair,

1561
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:44,840
was broadcast only on BFMTV,

1562
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:48,040
accompanied by a long article
in the weekly Paris-Match.

1563
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:51,680
Judge Tournaire

1564
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:54,760
wanted to spin it to his own taste

1565
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:57,120
and have me say things

1566
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:02,120
totally contrary
to what I've always said.

1567
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:04,200
There was no financing

1568
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,120
of Mr. Sarkozy's
presidential campaign.

1569
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:08,040
Ever.

1570
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:13,080
There you have Takieddine's
clear statement...

1571
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:16,040
Contradicting
all of his past statements,

1572
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:19,440
Ziad Takieddine
exonerated Nicolas Sarkozy

1573
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:21,440
and accused the legal system
of manipulating him.

1574
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:25,560
The BFMTV scoop,

1575
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:29,240
coming less than a month after
Sarkozy's second indictment,

1576
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:32,040
gave him a miraculous opportunity

1577
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:34,640
for a new media counter-offensive,

1578
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:38,200
that started...on BFMTV.

1579
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:42,360
If there was an investigation
of a former head of state

1580
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:45,600
based only on
Mr. Takieddine's statements...

1581
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:47,760
- Should there be one
of Judge Tournaire?

1582
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:49,760
- That's not for me to decide.

1583
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:53,520
But neither the media
nor the legal system can accept

1584
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:55,600
that when Takieddine
denounces Sarkozy,

1585
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:57,520
you have to investigate,

1586
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:00,400
but when Takieddine
denounces a judge,

1587
01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:03,760
another judge can say,
24 hours later,

1588
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:06,560
there's nothing to see, move along,
leave it alone.

1589
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:07,720
No, Ma'am.

1590
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:12,760
It wasn't enough for Ziad Takieddine
to retract his statement,

1591
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:16,440
he also had to accuse
the magistrates.

1592
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:19,320
It's a bit obvious,
but it went down well

1593
01:26:19,320 --> 01:26:21,800
with Les Républicains,

1594
01:26:21,960 --> 01:26:25,960
and his whole camp was galvanized
by the retraction.

1595
01:26:26,440 --> 01:26:27,960
Have magistrates

1596
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:31,280
been blinded by a
desire for vengeance?

1597
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:33,800
Or even a certain form of hatred?

1598
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:37,320
When Mr.
Takieddine made an accusation

1599
01:26:37,440 --> 01:26:39,080
against a former head of state,

1600
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:42,800
an investigation was
opened immediately.

1601
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:46,200
When the same individual,
in the same case,

1602
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:48,680
made an accusation
against a magistrate,

1603
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:50,040
the response from

1604
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:51,280
the financial
prosecutor's office is:

1605
01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:54,000
"Move along! Nothing to see here."

1606
01:26:54,160 --> 01:26:56,120
Of course, at Mediapart,

1607
01:26:56,280 --> 01:26:59,080
Karl Laske and I
were scratching our heads,

1608
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:01,640
wondering what was
behind this event.

1609
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:04,200
So we started checking.

1610
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:07,640
What's going on with him in Beirut?

1611
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:08,960
What is he living on?

1612
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:11,080
We called all around
Beirut to find out

1613
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:13,080
how his life was turning out,

1614
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:15,000
what his friends and
family were saying.

1615
01:27:15,160 --> 01:27:17,840
We quickly discovered
that he was in dire straits.

1616
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:19,520
He was ruined,

1617
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:21,760
no home of his own,

1618
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:25,280
with creditors
and lawyers harassing him,

1619
01:27:25,440 --> 01:27:27,200
demanding money.

1620
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:28,840
His back was against the wall.

1621
01:27:29,240 --> 01:27:32,120
On that basis,

1622
01:27:32,280 --> 01:27:35,200
we took our curiosity
one step further

1623
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:41,000
and tried to find out how
his retraction happened.

1624
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:42,880
Who went to Beirut, and so on.

1625
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:45,480
And indeed we learned

1626
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:48,480
that a Paris-Match
journalist went to

1627
01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:50,880
Beirut, but that he wasn't alone.

1628
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:54,960
In fact, behind
Ziad Takieddine's retraction

1629
01:27:55,120 --> 01:27:59,160
there was a whole cast
of colorful characters,

1630
01:27:59,920 --> 01:28:02,760
foremost among them a businesswoman

1631
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:05,600
who's also known as

1632
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:08,320
the big cheese of
the celebrity press:

1633
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:12,000
Michèle Marchand,
nicknamed Mimi Marchand.

1634
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:15,200
She has close ties
throughout French politics.

1635
01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:18,160
She's close with the Macrons,

1636
01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:20,560
but also with the Sarkozys,

1637
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:22,840
Nicolas Sarkozy and
his wife Carla Bruni,

1638
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:25,600
whom she'd known as
a singer and model

1639
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:28,240
for several decades.

1640
01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:32,240
I'm just a free electron

1641
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:34,920
who gets asked from time to time

1642
01:28:36,920 --> 01:28:39,520
"What do you think?"
But nothing else!

1643
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:41,200
It's Mimi Marchand

1644
01:28:41,360 --> 01:28:46,880
who is suspected of heading up
a rather baroque venture

1645
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:50,000
to convince Ziad Takieddine

1646
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:53,360
to change his testimony
in the Libyan affair

1647
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:57,360
in an attempt to
clear Nicolas Sarkozy.

1648
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:00,520
One thing led to
another and we gathered

1649
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:03,560
that money had been
put on the table,

1650
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:05,600
that he was promised

1651
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:07,160
the significant sum
of 4 million euros,

1652
01:29:07,320 --> 01:29:11,480
and we published two articles

1653
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:16,080
that contributed to the opening
of a new investigation

1654
01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:19,600
into witness tampering in the case.

1655
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:21,680
If this were a TV series,

1656
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:23,720
and I love a good series,

1657
01:29:24,480 --> 01:29:26,960
I'd say the script is implausible.

1658
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:29,240
Unfortunately,
it doesn't make me laugh,

1659
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:30,520
because it's serious.

1660
01:29:30,680 --> 01:29:32,280
Not just for me,

1661
01:29:32,440 --> 01:29:34,160
not just for my family,

1662
01:29:34,440 --> 01:29:36,880
not just for those
who believed in me,

1663
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:39,160
but for France,

1664
01:29:39,320 --> 01:29:40,840
which is giving the impression

1665
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:44,760
that it's former head of state
could be corrupt.

1666
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:46,520
It's ignominious.

1667
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:49,960
Professor of economics
at Sciences Po Paris

1668
01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:51,280
Author of Save the Media

1669
01:29:51,440 --> 01:29:54,040
To organize Takieddine's retraction,

1670
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:58,520
you have to organize
all the media coverage around it.

1671
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:01,320
I won't go into the details,

1672
01:30:01,480 --> 01:30:04,400
but it's not just:
"Let's put it on the front page."

1673
01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:05,840
You make it a saga.

1674
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:08,000
You get the right guests,
the right forums.

1675
01:30:08,160 --> 01:30:10,160
A lot of work goes into it.

1676
01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:13,160
Behind all that was Mimi Marchand,

1677
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:16,800
a high-powered press attaché

1678
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:19,920
who does her job very well,
from that point of view.

1679
01:30:20,440 --> 01:30:21,960
Good evening, Hervé Gattegno.

1680
01:30:22,120 --> 01:30:24,760
You're the managing editor
of Paris-Match,

1681
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:28,200
which published Ziad Takieddine's
change of position...

1682
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:31,320
Asked about the background
of the retraction,

1683
01:30:31,480 --> 01:30:35,760
the managing editor of Paris-Match
was not very forthcoming.

1684
01:30:37,560 --> 01:30:39,600
Was he the one who contacted you

1685
01:30:39,760 --> 01:30:42,440
because he wanted
to make the new statement?

1686
01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:44,800
Or did you seek him out

1687
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:47,240
and convince him to talk to you?

1688
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:49,400
Neither one, as is often the case.

1689
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:53,880
I won't tell you all the secrets
of the "making-of" the interview.

1690
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:56,800
If I did, it would burst
the professional bubble,

1691
01:30:57,400 --> 01:30:59,520
and sources need to be respected.

1692
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:01,000
But it was neither.

1693
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:04,960
We met him, he talked.
As you know, Ziad Takieddine

1694
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:06,560
doesn't need much encouragement.

1695
01:31:07,000 --> 01:31:09,680
It's clear in this Libyan affair

1696
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:13,440
that the main investigator
was Mediapart.

1697
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:16,600
Beyond them, unless I'm mistaken,

1698
01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:18,320
there was no cover of Le Point,

1699
01:31:18,480 --> 01:31:19,880
or L'Express,

1700
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:22,160
or the Nouvel Observateur.

1701
01:31:22,800 --> 01:31:27,360
It did not lead to massive coverage.

1702
01:31:27,760 --> 01:31:29,360
The question is why?

1703
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:31,400
There are two possible factors,

1704
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:34,680
probably both at work.

1705
01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:37,880
First, in the
competitive media market,

1706
01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:40,400
a new actor, Mediapart,

1707
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:43,280
had done very well
in a short period of time,

1708
01:31:43,440 --> 01:31:45,440
making some of the
competition jealous.

1709
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:47,880
So some of those competitors

1710
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:50,200
maybe didn't want
to "help them out",

1711
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:53,920
and didn't cover it much
since it wasn't their scoop.

1712
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:55,760
That's a first element.

1713
01:31:55,920 --> 01:31:58,000
And it's doesn't
contradict the second.

1714
01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:01,720
Which is that, in the media sector,

1715
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:04,840
there's a very influential actor,
the Groupe Lagardère,

1716
01:32:05,120 --> 01:32:08,160
and one member of its
board of directors

1717
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:10,240
was Nicolas Sarkozy.

1718
01:32:10,400 --> 01:32:14,880
When you have a former president
sitting on a board

1719
01:32:15,040 --> 01:32:16,720
of a group that owns media outlets,

1720
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:22,200
and a shareholder of those media

1721
01:32:22,360 --> 01:32:26,400
knows how to intervene
and does so regularly,

1722
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:29,280
it's not surprising
that the story wasn't

1723
01:32:29,280 --> 01:32:32,000
making headlines in
JDD or Paris-Match.

1724
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:33,280
Except

1725
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:38,240
to announce the retraction
of a certain witness.

1726
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:42,560
The legal investigation obviously
went much further than we could,

1727
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:45,440
and was able to bring together

1728
01:32:45,440 --> 01:32:48,160
the exchanges of all
of the protagonists,

1729
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:50,360
which clearly proved

1730
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:54,960
that the four million were promised
in writing to Takieddine,

1731
01:32:55,120 --> 01:32:58,640
and that Takieddine
talked for that reason.

1732
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:01,800
By investigating Michèle Marchand,

1733
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:06,280
we learned she was in contact
with Carla Bruni,

1734
01:33:06,440 --> 01:33:08,360
Nicolas Sarkozy's wife,

1735
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:10,560
and that the three discussed
the subject.

1736
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:14,560
Nicolas Sarkozy was informed
before it was published,

1737
01:33:14,920 --> 01:33:17,880
before the operation went online.

1738
01:33:18,160 --> 01:33:20,840
That makes him a
potential accomplice,

1739
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:23,320
if not the manager
of the whole operation.

1740
01:33:26,440 --> 01:33:28,520
The "Save Sarko" operation

1741
01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:32,040
was investigated by
the Paris courts,

1742
01:33:32,200 --> 01:33:34,920
separately from
the Libyan financing investigation.

1743
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:40,520
The entente that had prevailed among
the main protagonists of the staging

1744
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:42,480
turned to fisticuffs.

1745
01:33:42,760 --> 01:33:43,880
Hervé Gattegno,

1746
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:46,800
who denies committing
any criminal offense,

1747
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:49,200
was not a subject of
the investigation.

1748
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:51,800
Wiretap of Michèle Marchand

1749
01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:53,880
"The deus ex machina
was Hervé Gattegno.

1750
01:33:54,040 --> 01:33:55,600
"He planned it, not me.

1751
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:58,120
"I just carried it out."

1752
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:02,880
Wiretap between
Arnaud Lagardère and Hervé Gattegno

1753
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:04,120
Gattegno:

1754
01:34:04,120 --> 01:34:05,200
"In one fell swoop
we gave it to him,

1755
01:34:05,360 --> 01:34:07,320
"how could he resist?

1756
01:34:07,480 --> 01:34:09,640
"And you know Sarko,
he wants to meddle

1757
01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:11,840
in everything, he wants to run it."

1758
01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:14,520
Nicolas Sarkozy Hearing
October 10, 2023

1759
01:34:14,680 --> 01:34:16,680
"You could say (Michèle Marchand)
tricked me.

1760
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:19,480
"If I'd known what she was up to,

1761
01:34:19,480 --> 01:34:22,120
my attitude would
have been different."

1762
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:25,840
Michèle Marchand Hearing
November 10, 2023

1763
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:27,760
"It's not right to say that.

1764
01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:29,440
"It's not right or gracious.

1765
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:31,120
"But it doesn't matter.

1766
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:35,000
"We know what
the person who said it is like."

1767
01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:38,000
The Ziad Takieddine
retraction affair

1768
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:40,120
became the false retraction affair,

1769
01:34:40,280 --> 01:34:43,000
and it led to the indictment

1770
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:46,040
of Michèle Marchand
and her presumed accomplices,

1771
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:48,840
and also of Nicolas Sarkozy,

1772
01:34:49,240 --> 01:34:52,160
who was indicted for
criminal conspiracy

1773
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:55,400
to commit a very specific fraud,

1774
01:34:55,560 --> 01:34:57,760
which is called a "judgement fraud".

1775
01:34:57,920 --> 01:35:01,800
It's an attempt
to manipulate the legal system

1776
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:04,440
in order to be exonerated

1777
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:06,720
when you're implicated in a crime.

1778
01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:08,840
The investigation

1779
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:14,120
also shed light on the close ties
between Nicolas Sarkozy's team,

1780
01:35:14,280 --> 01:35:17,800
the management of BFMTV,
and certain journalists

1781
01:35:17,960 --> 01:35:21,960
who promoted Ziad Takieddine's
false retraction.

1782
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:26,320
Text exchange, November 11, 2020

1783
01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:28,680
Sarkozy's communications
officer and BFMTV

1784
01:35:28,840 --> 01:35:30,800
Waché: N.S. could go on with Ruth.

1785
01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:33,440
It hits hard.
N.S.'s reaction on Facebook.

1786
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:35,400
Fogiel: Great! You'll let me know?

1787
01:35:35,560 --> 01:35:36,880
Waché: Yes, we're on it.

1788
01:35:37,120 --> 01:35:39,520
What broadcast slot
looks best to you?

1789
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:41,760
Fogiel: If he talks to Ruth,
we'll do several.

1790
01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:44,160
So the first broadcast
doesn't matter much,

1791
01:35:44,320 --> 01:35:46,080
but it could be 7pm [...]

1792
01:35:46,240 --> 01:35:49,000
What would your schedule be?

1793
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:50,120
Text exchange, November 13, 2020

1794
01:35:50,120 --> 01:35:51,120
Sarkozy's communications
officer and BFMTV

1795
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:54,480
Elkrief:
Are you getting good feedback?

1796
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:56,600
Waché: Excellent!!!
Thank you, dear Ruth!

1797
01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:58,600
Decisive broadcast for us.

1798
01:35:58,760 --> 01:36:01,640
Elkrief: I hope so,
from the bottom of my heart.

1799
01:36:03,560 --> 01:36:04,560
Text exchange November 14, 2020

1800
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:05,560
Sarkozy's communications
officer and BFMTV

1801
01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:06,960
Fogiel: Good feedback?

1802
01:36:07,120 --> 01:36:08,880
Waché: Fabulous!

1803
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:10,880
Fogiel: Great!

1804
01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:12,600
Waché: Actually, anytime

1805
01:36:12,760 --> 01:36:15,760
you have to deal with
the Libyan affair,

1806
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:18,760
you can quote from it.

1807
01:36:19,120 --> 01:36:23,320
The links between Nicolas Sarkozy
and Arnaud Lagardère

1808
01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:28,760
are far from secret

1809
01:36:29,360 --> 01:36:31,360
because they're not discreet at all.

1810
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:34,800
That's what's interesting.
It could be a situation

1811
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:37,560
with a politician

1812
01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:39,360
pulling the strings
in the background,

1813
01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:41,000
trying to influence things,

1814
01:36:41,160 --> 01:36:42,960
but doing it discreetly.

1815
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:45,760
But he didn't even see the problem.

1816
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:48,720
When Lagardère asked Nicolas Sarkozy

1817
01:36:48,880 --> 01:36:50,840
to sit on his board,

1818
01:36:51,960 --> 01:36:53,400
nobody saw a problem.

1819
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:55,120
It's a big problem.

1820
01:36:55,280 --> 01:36:57,520
You know exactly what you're doing.

1821
01:36:57,680 --> 01:37:01,200
And Nicolas Sarkozy knew very well
why he accepted.

1822
01:37:01,360 --> 01:37:04,680
There are strong
links - too strong -

1823
01:37:04,840 --> 01:37:06,640
between the political sphere

1824
01:37:07,160 --> 01:37:08,600
and the media sphere.

1825
01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:10,160
They need to be questioned

1826
01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:13,840
about the conditions they create

1827
01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:17,720
in terms of corruption, favors,

1828
01:37:17,880 --> 01:37:20,240
and unpublished information.

1829
01:37:20,560 --> 01:37:22,880
And we also need to ask ourselves

1830
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:25,200
why we're not more
shocked than we are.

1831
01:37:26,240 --> 01:37:27,520
Collectively.

1832
01:37:27,920 --> 01:37:29,480
July 11, 2024

1833
01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:31,640
For the station manager:

1834
01:37:32,160 --> 01:37:34,760
"Move along. Nothing to see here."

1835
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:36,840
"As always, the station

1836
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:38,840
"worked with complete independence

1837
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:40,720
and was journalistically
irreproachable."

1838
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:45,120
What's interesting in the case of
Ziad Takieddine's false retraction

1839
01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:48,440
is that Nicolas Sarkozy,
as in the Libyan affair,

1840
01:37:48,600 --> 01:37:51,280
dropped his former partners.

1841
01:37:51,440 --> 01:37:55,120
As he did in the Bismuth case,
in which he was convicted

1842
01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:58,560
and dropped his lawyer,
Thierry Herzog;

1843
01:37:58,720 --> 01:38:01,080
as in the Bygmalion case,
in which he was convicted

1844
01:38:01,240 --> 01:38:03,400
and dropped his campaign team;

1845
01:38:03,560 --> 01:38:06,160
as in the Libyan financing affair

1846
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:09,200
in which he dropped Brice Hortefeux
and Claude Guéant,

1847
01:38:09,360 --> 01:38:12,360
so he dropped Mimi Marchand,
who was a family friend,

1848
01:38:12,520 --> 01:38:15,080
in particular of his
wife Carla Bruni.

1849
01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:17,360
So from case to case,

1850
01:38:17,520 --> 01:38:20,160
we find ourselves
with a head of state

1851
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:23,760
who sometimes seems to
behave like a godfather.

1852
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:26,960
Like the godfather
of a political mafia who,

1853
01:38:27,120 --> 01:38:30,760
as the judicial flames
close in on him,

1854
01:38:30,920 --> 01:38:34,240
is prepared
to cut every tie that binds him

1855
01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:37,200
to his lieutenants,
to those who've been implicated.

1856
01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:38,720
I told the judges:

1857
01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:41,600
"Search for a century if you want,

1858
01:38:41,760 --> 01:38:43,200
"you won't find anything."

1859
01:38:43,360 --> 01:38:44,520
They looked everywhere.

1860
01:38:44,680 --> 01:38:46,240
And why won't they find anything?

1861
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:49,640
Because there's nothing to find.

1862
01:38:51,440 --> 01:38:52,320
For 14 years,

1863
01:38:52,480 --> 01:38:54,800
Nicolas Sarkozy and his cabinet
categorically refused

1864
01:38:54,960 --> 01:38:57,880
to answer questions from
Mediapart about the affair.

1865
01:38:58,040 --> 01:38:59,880
Questioned by the magistrates,

1866
01:38:59,880 --> 01:39:01,720
Nicolas Sarkozy
justified that refusal:

1867
01:39:01,880 --> 01:39:05,000
"I never respond to Mediapart
because they're not journalists.

1868
01:39:05,160 --> 01:39:08,040
"They're political hacks,

1869
01:39:08,200 --> 01:39:10,680
"waging a political war."

1870
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:14,040
We've been sued

1871
01:39:14,200 --> 01:39:16,120
by Nicolas Sarkozy, Brice Hortefeux,

1872
01:39:16,280 --> 01:39:18,320
Claude Guéant, Ziad Takieddine,

1873
01:39:18,480 --> 01:39:21,040
and by journalists
close to Nicolas Sarkozy.

1874
01:39:21,200 --> 01:39:24,880
We won resoundingly in every case.

1875
01:39:25,120 --> 01:39:29,160
We were never convicted of forgery,
use of forgeries, defamation,

1876
01:39:29,320 --> 01:39:31,480
or infringement on
the presumption of innocence.

1877
01:39:31,640 --> 01:39:33,600
We'll see if the facts we uncovered,

1878
01:39:33,760 --> 01:39:37,320
and those uncovered by the police
and investigating magistrates,

1879
01:39:37,480 --> 01:39:40,040
will meet a definition
in the penal code

1880
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:42,880
that will authorize a court
to convict - or not -

1881
01:39:43,120 --> 01:39:45,800
Nicolas Sarkozy, Brice Hortefeux,
Claude Guéant,

1882
01:39:45,960 --> 01:39:48,840
Alexandre Djouhri, Ziad Takieddine,
Eric Woerth, and the others.

1883
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:51,840
There are currently 13 defendants

1884
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:54,960
in the Sarkozy-Gaddafi proceedings.

1885
01:39:55,120 --> 01:39:56,840
Whatever the outcome,

1886
01:39:57,000 --> 01:40:00,760
Mediapart will not change
a single comma

1887
01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:03,040
from the articles it devoted
to this story

1888
01:40:03,200 --> 01:40:05,280
because we have only done our job,

1889
01:40:05,440 --> 01:40:08,120
which is to publish verified facts

1890
01:40:08,280 --> 01:40:10,000
that are of public interest.

1891
01:40:13,120 --> 01:40:15,960
The case known as
the presumed Libyan financing affair

1892
01:40:16,120 --> 01:40:18,440
went to trail
on January 6, 2025.

1893
01:40:18,600 --> 01:40:20,640
Messrs. Alexandre Djouhri,
Thierry Gaubert,

1894
01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:22,160
Claude Guéant, Brice Hortefeux,

1895
01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:25,520
Bashir Saleh, Nicolas Sarkozy,
Ziad Takieddine, and Eric Woerth,

1896
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:27,120
along with five others,
have been referred

1897
01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:28,600
to the Paris Court of Justice

1898
01:40:28,760 --> 01:40:31,840
to stand trial.
They are presumed innocent.

1899
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:39,640
The chances of factual truth
surviving the onslaught of power

1900
01:40:39,800 --> 01:40:41,680
are very slim indeed;

1901
01:40:41,840 --> 01:40:47,200
it is always in danger
of being maneuvered out of the world

1902
01:40:47,360 --> 01:40:49,840
not only for a time but,
potentially, forever.

1903
01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:04,320
Subtitles: Jennifer Gay