1 00:00:20,411 --> 00:00:23,284 Why did you, start to take in the children? 2 00:00:23,414 --> 00:00:25,764 Over 21 years, 28 young people 3 00:00:25,851 --> 00:00:27,592 went through our hands. 4 00:00:27,723 --> 00:00:28,637 Why did you do it? 5 00:00:28,724 --> 00:00:29,724 - I love children. 6 00:00:31,814 --> 00:00:33,313 Once she became the leader of the cult, 7 00:00:33,337 --> 00:00:35,296 and could get whatever she wanted, 8 00:00:35,426 --> 00:00:36,819 one thing that she wanted was, 9 00:00:36,949 --> 00:00:39,126 lots of little children. 10 00:00:39,256 --> 00:00:40,692 She was preparing us for, 11 00:00:40,823 --> 00:00:44,000 when the time happens, to re-educate the world, 12 00:00:44,131 --> 00:00:46,046 what's left of it. 13 00:00:46,176 --> 00:00:47,719 How many are your natural children? 14 00:00:47,743 --> 00:00:48,981 There were eight or nine. 15 00:00:49,005 --> 00:00:51,138 We never told them they weren't ours. 16 00:00:51,268 --> 00:00:54,750 - We were all children who had no identity whatsoever. 17 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,230 - They were stolen children. 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,059 Phoney adoptions that were organised by sect members. 19 00:00:59,189 --> 00:01:00,340 - I'm wondering if you got any comment 20 00:01:00,364 --> 00:01:01,887 to make now about the children? 21 00:01:03,933 --> 00:01:06,042 Shots are being fired through windows. 22 00:01:06,066 --> 00:01:07,850 Car tyres have been slashed. 23 00:01:07,980 --> 00:01:09,330 There are death threats. 24 00:01:09,417 --> 00:01:11,723 - Auntie Anne sucked, as much money out of people 25 00:01:11,854 --> 00:01:13,551 as she possibly could. 26 00:01:13,682 --> 00:01:14,920 Yesterday, seven members 27 00:01:14,944 --> 00:01:16,467 of Anne Hamilton-Byrne's sect, 28 00:01:16,598 --> 00:01:18,556 pleaded guilty of defrauding the Commonwealth. 29 00:01:18,687 --> 00:01:22,212 - I know that Muktananda practiced black magic. 30 00:01:22,343 --> 00:01:26,260 That's why Anne was there - to learn more about it. 31 00:01:26,390 --> 00:01:27,976 There were so many bizarre stories 32 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,959 about who she was. 33 00:01:30,090 --> 00:01:31,110 I didn't even know 34 00:01:31,134 --> 00:01:32,454 that Auntie Anne had another name. 35 00:02:17,528 --> 00:02:21,010 When I ran away I felt a lot of grief, 36 00:02:21,141 --> 00:02:23,447 and a lot of heartache and a lot of guilt 37 00:02:23,578 --> 00:02:25,623 for leaving the kids in that situation. 38 00:02:28,060 --> 00:02:30,150 I actually went in with the police 39 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,040 when the raid happened so that the children realised 40 00:02:32,064 --> 00:02:33,064 that it was okay. 41 00:02:35,372 --> 00:02:36,610 I remember my heart pumping the whole time and thinking, 42 00:02:36,634 --> 00:02:40,160 "God, how are the children going to look at me?" 43 00:02:40,290 --> 00:02:42,007 They're takiing us somewhere! 44 00:02:42,031 --> 00:02:44,468 It'll break Mom and Dad's heart. 45 00:02:44,599 --> 00:02:45,121 We were ushered out quite quickly 46 00:02:45,252 --> 00:02:46,252 out of the house, 47 00:02:47,732 --> 00:02:51,345 and up to the bus, at the end of the our driveway. 48 00:02:52,476 --> 00:02:54,436 Then it's all go, we're being driven away. 49 00:02:54,565 --> 00:02:57,264 And I remember as we go down the road, 50 00:02:57,394 --> 00:02:58,700 I think it began to dawn on me, 51 00:03:00,049 --> 00:03:01,746 this was actually the end of it. 52 00:03:03,705 --> 00:03:05,968 I was going to do everything I could to never go back. 53 00:03:07,230 --> 00:03:09,121 At the weekend, six children were seized 54 00:03:09,145 --> 00:03:11,060 from a property owned by The Family. 55 00:03:11,191 --> 00:03:11,974 Five of the children appeared 56 00:03:12,104 --> 00:03:13,299 in the Melbourne Children's Court 57 00:03:13,323 --> 00:03:15,673 under care and protection applications. 58 00:03:28,730 --> 00:03:31,298 Perhaps a week after they had been rescued 59 00:03:31,428 --> 00:03:33,709 from Lake Eildon, I went to Allambie to meet the children. 60 00:03:38,087 --> 00:03:39,871 I remember walking into the room, 61 00:03:40,002 --> 00:03:41,656 and there was just this enormous buzz. 62 00:03:44,702 --> 00:03:47,052 It was as if the children were birds 63 00:03:47,183 --> 00:03:49,011 that had been freed from an iron cage. 64 00:03:49,141 --> 00:03:51,492 They were just totally in flight. 65 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:58,953 - I remember things like being able to do the dishes, 66 00:03:58,977 --> 00:04:01,415 and this was exciting and wonderful. 67 00:04:01,545 --> 00:04:02,783 Being able to go and get food whenever I want to. 68 00:04:02,807 --> 00:04:04,940 Being able to learn to ride a bike. 69 00:04:05,027 --> 00:04:06,265 - How we'd all have dinner together and laugh, 70 00:04:06,289 --> 00:04:09,771 and lots of food, and watch TV. 71 00:04:10,859 --> 00:04:12,579 - They said you can eat as much as you want. 72 00:04:13,862 --> 00:04:15,361 Well, I said, "My stomach is only a certain size." 73 00:04:20,260 --> 00:04:22,479 - There were a team of people working with the children. 74 00:04:22,566 --> 00:04:26,309 Police, medical people, and myself as a counsellor. 75 00:04:28,529 --> 00:04:31,445 I was asked to work with those 10 children 76 00:04:31,532 --> 00:04:32,141 to identify who they really were, because 77 00:04:32,272 --> 00:04:34,839 they've grown up believing 78 00:04:34,970 --> 00:04:36,208 that they were all the children 79 00:04:36,232 --> 00:04:38,278 of Anne Hamilton-Byrne and Bill Hamilton-Byrne. 80 00:04:40,758 --> 00:04:44,980 They were barbecues and outings, and trips to Luna Park. 81 00:04:45,067 --> 00:04:47,678 We reached out to the children from our hearts. 82 00:04:48,810 --> 00:04:52,509 But as I sat down one-to-one with the children, 83 00:04:52,596 --> 00:04:56,557 I realised that there was some pretty dark stuff 84 00:04:56,687 --> 00:04:57,807 that they were dealing with. 85 00:05:00,604 --> 00:05:02,147 All that you've known, is suddenly removed, 86 00:05:02,171 --> 00:05:04,129 and you're looking for a foundation. 87 00:05:04,260 --> 00:05:05,890 You're looking for things that are familiar. 88 00:05:05,914 --> 00:05:10,135 You're trying to find things that are solid. 89 00:05:10,266 --> 00:05:11,666 Trust was a big issue. 90 00:05:13,095 --> 00:05:14,618 Could we really trust these policemen 91 00:05:14,749 --> 00:05:17,882 and these other people that we've never seen 92 00:05:18,013 --> 00:05:19,057 before in our lives, 93 00:05:19,188 --> 00:05:20,513 that they were going to look after us, 94 00:05:20,537 --> 00:05:24,976 and make Eildon go away, make Anne and Bill go away, 95 00:05:25,063 --> 00:05:27,196 make the Aunties go away? 96 00:05:30,547 --> 00:05:33,333 - They'd grown up with a perverse fairy tale. 97 00:05:34,812 --> 00:05:36,901 They had been systematically deprived 98 00:05:37,032 --> 00:05:39,643 of the truth for their entire lives. 99 00:05:46,955 --> 00:05:51,046 It was quite a tangled web of birth certificates, 100 00:05:51,176 --> 00:05:54,658 deed poll name changes, and affidavits in regard 101 00:05:54,789 --> 00:05:56,704 to adoption that I had to sort through. 102 00:05:59,010 --> 00:06:01,273 Once I had the records gathered together, 103 00:06:01,404 --> 00:06:05,930 I then went back and sat down individually with the child. 104 00:06:08,368 --> 00:06:11,066 I was absolutely devastated that I wasn't 105 00:06:11,196 --> 00:06:13,373 who I thought I was. 106 00:06:13,503 --> 00:06:15,810 I was very devastated by the betrayal, I think. 107 00:06:19,117 --> 00:06:20,660 I went down to the births and deaths, 108 00:06:20,684 --> 00:06:23,557 and asked, "Can I please have the birth certificate 109 00:06:23,644 --> 00:06:24,993 of Sarah Hamilton-Byrne?" 110 00:06:25,123 --> 00:06:26,908 And I got back this piece of paper saying, 111 00:06:27,038 --> 00:06:29,432 there is no such person as Sarah Hamilton-Byrne. 112 00:06:31,086 --> 00:06:33,523 And then I thought, oh, okay. 113 00:06:33,654 --> 00:06:36,483 "Well, who am I?" 114 00:06:40,225 --> 00:06:42,576 The only way that we could at that point in time, 115 00:06:42,706 --> 00:06:45,448 establish the true identity of the children, 116 00:06:45,579 --> 00:06:48,582 of these young people, was to try and locate 117 00:06:48,712 --> 00:06:51,628 their natural mother and natural father, 118 00:06:53,151 --> 00:06:54,718 and then take blood samples. 119 00:06:57,329 --> 00:06:59,810 It was one of the first times in Victoria, 120 00:06:59,941 --> 00:07:02,334 where DNA was used to match blood to prove parentage. 121 00:07:13,389 --> 00:07:16,436 Just imagine saying to somebody, fancy saying to woman, 122 00:07:16,566 --> 00:07:18,133 "Do you remember giving birth?" 123 00:07:18,263 --> 00:07:22,833 "Do you remember that in this year, particular year, 124 00:07:23,965 --> 00:07:25,575 did you give birth?" 125 00:07:27,142 --> 00:07:28,902 Straight away you're bringing up, in some cases, 126 00:07:28,926 --> 00:07:29,971 some traumatic memories. 127 00:07:31,799 --> 00:07:34,715 And then trying to track down the father. 128 00:07:35,933 --> 00:07:37,369 And then saying to this guy, 129 00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:39,720 "I think you've got a child." 130 00:07:39,850 --> 00:07:41,069 "What?" 131 00:07:41,199 --> 00:07:42,199 Bang. 132 00:07:44,507 --> 00:07:46,050 It didn't leave a very nice taste in your mouth, 133 00:07:46,074 --> 00:07:47,205 but you had to do it. 134 00:08:01,611 --> 00:08:05,441 In the 70s we didn't talk about unmarried mothers. 135 00:08:06,442 --> 00:08:10,925 Young girls, 16, 17, who fell pregnant, 136 00:08:11,055 --> 00:08:12,753 often weren't seen for months on end. 137 00:08:14,058 --> 00:08:15,298 And then they would appear back 138 00:08:15,407 --> 00:08:16,974 in their normal lives and communities. 139 00:08:18,976 --> 00:08:21,109 And they would've gone through their pregnancy. 140 00:08:21,239 --> 00:08:23,111 No one knew that they had given birth. 141 00:08:24,634 --> 00:08:26,027 But the child had been passed over. 142 00:08:30,118 --> 00:08:32,947 - When women went to the hospital then, if they were single, 143 00:08:33,077 --> 00:08:35,253 and they go for their first appointment, 144 00:08:35,384 --> 00:08:37,038 their card was marked with an "A", 145 00:08:37,168 --> 00:08:39,040 which meant they were to see the Almoner, 146 00:08:39,170 --> 00:08:40,998 who was the social worker. 147 00:08:41,129 --> 00:08:43,479 And from that moment on, the assumption was 148 00:08:43,610 --> 00:08:45,350 that the child was available for adoption. 149 00:08:47,352 --> 00:08:51,835 If they tried during that time to question 150 00:08:51,966 --> 00:08:54,403 the notion of adoption, they were shut down. 151 00:08:54,534 --> 00:08:56,361 They were basically told that, 152 00:08:56,492 --> 00:08:58,146 "There's no way you can keep this child." 153 00:09:00,235 --> 00:09:01,952 In the late 60s, there wasn't supporting 154 00:09:01,976 --> 00:09:05,719 mothers pension and things like that. 155 00:09:05,849 --> 00:09:07,871 And particularly if you came from a religious family, 156 00:09:07,895 --> 00:09:10,332 it was still a great shame to have a kid out of wedlock. 157 00:09:12,247 --> 00:09:16,947 My biological mother was made to sign an adoption form. 158 00:09:18,296 --> 00:09:22,126 And then during my birth, a pillow was put over her head. 159 00:09:22,213 --> 00:09:25,086 She was given made tranquilisers. 160 00:09:25,216 --> 00:09:29,046 And as soon I was born, I was taken away instantly. 161 00:09:29,177 --> 00:09:32,049 She wasn't even allowed to look at me. 162 00:09:33,921 --> 00:09:36,880 - Most mothers who talk about this say something like, 163 00:09:37,011 --> 00:09:40,014 "I heard a cry, then I heard a door slam." 164 00:09:40,144 --> 00:09:42,538 And that's the child being taken out. 165 00:09:42,669 --> 00:09:44,758 The idea was, if you see the child, 166 00:09:44,888 --> 00:09:47,412 it'll be even harder to part with them. 167 00:09:48,979 --> 00:09:50,130 This couple have been waiting 168 00:09:50,154 --> 00:09:53,114 11 months to adopt a baby boy. 169 00:09:53,244 --> 00:09:54,884 Today is the first time they will see him. 170 00:09:57,553 --> 00:09:59,642 Now they must wait patiently for the fulfilment 171 00:09:59,773 --> 00:10:02,166 of the 30-day consent period. 172 00:10:02,297 --> 00:10:03,515 If the mother of the baby, 173 00:10:03,646 --> 00:10:05,517 decides to revoke her decision, 174 00:10:05,648 --> 00:10:07,868 this couple would have to give him up. 175 00:10:07,998 --> 00:10:10,653 But this distressing situation rarely happens. 176 00:10:12,307 --> 00:10:15,484 This little illegitimate bundle, will become legitimised. 177 00:10:16,964 --> 00:10:18,487 By adoption, this child will escape 178 00:10:18,618 --> 00:10:20,750 the handicap of its birth. 179 00:10:20,837 --> 00:10:22,404 His real mother will almost certainly 180 00:10:22,534 --> 00:10:24,885 never set eyes on him again. 181 00:10:25,015 --> 00:10:26,906 And with all the love he can expect from his new parents, 182 00:10:26,930 --> 00:10:29,106 he may never feel the loss. 183 00:10:29,237 --> 00:10:31,805 In this case, one woman's loss could turn out 184 00:10:31,935 --> 00:10:34,764 to be somebody else's gain. 185 00:10:39,421 --> 00:10:39,856 John Mackay, was one of those who 186 00:10:39,987 --> 00:10:41,205 adopted a child 187 00:10:42,293 --> 00:10:45,122 and let Anne Hamilton-Byrne, look after him. 188 00:10:45,209 --> 00:10:48,952 - Anne and Bill wanted to construct a family, 189 00:10:49,083 --> 00:10:52,042 of these children, to rear them as a family. 190 00:10:52,129 --> 00:10:56,133 I think for very good psychological reasons. 191 00:10:56,264 --> 00:10:59,136 They've been able to provide a stable environment 192 00:10:59,267 --> 00:11:00,964 with a lot of love. 193 00:11:01,051 --> 00:11:02,507 Something that you weren't able to do? 194 00:11:02,531 --> 00:11:04,098 - That's true, I wasn't able. 195 00:11:04,185 --> 00:11:06,404 - I wanted to ask him if he knew, 196 00:11:06,535 --> 00:11:08,450 after he handed that child over, 197 00:11:08,580 --> 00:11:10,017 what had happened to that child? 198 00:11:10,147 --> 00:11:12,846 The brutality it experienced. 199 00:11:12,976 --> 00:11:14,369 Marie Mohr's my name, Dr Mackay. 200 00:11:14,456 --> 00:11:16,456 I'm wondering if you've got any comment to make now 201 00:11:16,545 --> 00:11:17,785 about happened to the children? 202 00:11:17,851 --> 00:11:18,895 Why won't you have... 203 00:11:20,418 --> 00:11:21,613 Is that all you've got to say, Dr Mackay? 204 00:11:21,637 --> 00:11:23,117 After what you put those kids through. 205 00:11:24,727 --> 00:11:26,207 There's no need for that, Dr. Mackay. 206 00:11:29,906 --> 00:11:31,014 You raised them under the name, 207 00:11:31,038 --> 00:11:32,300 Hamilton-Byrne? 208 00:11:32,430 --> 00:11:35,129 You arranged for passports in that name? 209 00:11:35,259 --> 00:11:37,087 - We did. 210 00:11:37,174 --> 00:11:39,283 Even though that was not their legal name? 211 00:11:39,307 --> 00:11:41,352 - Well, yes, but we did it honourably we thought. 212 00:11:41,439 --> 00:11:42,179 Quite honourably. 213 00:11:42,310 --> 00:11:43,310 Why? 214 00:11:43,354 --> 00:11:44,878 What was the purpose of it? 215 00:11:45,008 --> 00:11:46,923 - Because it's easier, if you're going overseas, 216 00:11:47,054 --> 00:11:49,534 into England, to get treatment for the children, 217 00:11:49,665 --> 00:11:51,232 when it's all in one family. 218 00:11:51,362 --> 00:11:52,973 If they are in one family. 219 00:11:53,103 --> 00:11:54,428 We wanted them to be a family. 220 00:11:54,452 --> 00:11:55,149 - You see? 221 00:11:55,236 --> 00:11:56,236 - A loved family. 222 00:11:58,674 --> 00:11:59,980 - If they are in one family. 223 00:12:00,067 --> 00:12:01,851 - We wanted to be a family. 224 00:12:01,982 --> 00:12:02,678 - You see? 225 00:12:02,809 --> 00:12:03,505 - A loved family. 226 00:12:05,202 --> 00:12:07,074 When you're investigating a crime, 227 00:12:07,204 --> 00:12:08,484 you've got to keep an open mind. 228 00:12:10,773 --> 00:12:14,124 But as the investigation went on, 229 00:12:14,255 --> 00:12:18,389 in my mind she was becoming more clinical, more cold. 230 00:12:20,435 --> 00:12:22,916 It was about Anne, and no one else. 231 00:12:27,268 --> 00:12:30,532 There were so many bizarre stories about who she was. 232 00:12:30,662 --> 00:12:32,403 We had to drill down and get the facts. 233 00:12:34,144 --> 00:12:36,103 That's part of the chase, 234 00:12:36,233 --> 00:12:38,409 establishing "Who am I actually dealing with?" 235 00:12:40,455 --> 00:12:42,128 - Well, I didn't know anything about her background 236 00:12:42,152 --> 00:12:44,589 until the late 80s when all the 237 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,288 news reports started coming out. 238 00:12:47,418 --> 00:12:50,595 I didn't even know that Auntie Anne had another name. 239 00:12:50,726 --> 00:12:52,728 I think it was Evelyn or something, wasn't it? 240 00:12:56,123 --> 00:12:59,866 She told us that she came from some royal family. 241 00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:03,019 - We, as children, thought she was beyond 242 00:13:03,043 --> 00:13:04,348 the Queen of England. 243 00:13:04,479 --> 00:13:06,655 She'd even spent time with the Queen, 244 00:13:06,786 --> 00:13:08,613 having cups of tea. 245 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:10,790 - She was a singer, she was an opera singer. 246 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:12,800 We had a castle somewhere in Europe, 247 00:13:12,879 --> 00:13:15,229 and you know, quite la-di-da, really. 248 00:13:16,273 --> 00:13:19,624 Anne was the direct, she was Jesus incarnate, 249 00:13:19,711 --> 00:13:20,974 the descendant of God. 250 00:13:21,104 --> 00:13:23,411 And we were, descended from the House of David, 251 00:13:23,541 --> 00:13:25,805 which apparently was Jesus' bloodline. 252 00:13:39,122 --> 00:13:41,168 - When we were older, and we actually found out 253 00:13:41,298 --> 00:13:44,258 that she was a railway yard worker's daughter. 254 00:13:45,433 --> 00:13:47,696 And her mother was a mental patient in a hospital. 255 00:13:49,002 --> 00:13:50,655 It was really quite a sad story. 256 00:13:53,006 --> 00:13:54,486 I think that she was trying to portray 257 00:13:54,572 --> 00:13:57,706 this perfect life, and this perfect family, 258 00:13:57,837 --> 00:13:59,077 something that she didn't have. 259 00:14:03,103 --> 00:14:05,932 The father was absent a lot of the time. 260 00:14:06,062 --> 00:14:09,326 Anne was placed in Brighton Orphanage a couple of times. 261 00:14:09,457 --> 00:14:12,068 She came from an extremely impoverished background, 262 00:14:12,155 --> 00:14:14,549 and she was put into a very rich suburb 263 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,291 where she could sort of see, very privileged children 264 00:14:17,421 --> 00:14:20,990 walking past to their private schools. 265 00:14:21,077 --> 00:14:24,689 And I think she had fantasies that she'd get that somehow. 266 00:14:29,129 --> 00:14:30,584 One thing you learn as a detective, 267 00:14:30,608 --> 00:14:32,436 is that official documents don't lie. 268 00:14:34,612 --> 00:14:36,266 We turned to the service record 269 00:14:36,397 --> 00:14:39,226 of Anne's first husband, Lionel Harris, who was a corporal 270 00:14:39,356 --> 00:14:42,490 in the Australian Air Force, for information. 271 00:14:55,198 --> 00:14:57,679 We discovered that two years after Judith was born, 272 00:14:57,766 --> 00:14:59,768 Lionel applied to leave the air force, 273 00:14:59,855 --> 00:15:02,075 because he was worried about his wife's mental health. 274 00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:06,383 He said, she was very abnormal to her child, 275 00:15:06,514 --> 00:15:08,168 and her behaviour was very strange. 276 00:15:10,822 --> 00:15:12,781 In the only official diagnosis we have, 277 00:15:12,912 --> 00:15:14,348 of Evelyn's mental health, 278 00:15:14,435 --> 00:15:16,002 her doctor described her as depressed, 279 00:15:16,089 --> 00:15:17,089 and neglecting Judith. 280 00:15:19,657 --> 00:15:22,791 He feared, she'd inherited her mother's mental instability, 281 00:15:22,922 --> 00:15:23,922 and may give way. 282 00:15:37,066 --> 00:15:39,808 Two years later, Lionel is a car salesman 283 00:15:39,939 --> 00:15:41,288 And they have moved to Sydney. 284 00:16:14,451 --> 00:16:18,238 In 1955, a single woman couldn't adopt a child. 285 00:16:18,368 --> 00:16:21,197 It seemed that Evelyn's dreams of a larger family were over. 286 00:16:34,471 --> 00:16:35,995 But Evelyn didn't give up. 287 00:16:40,042 --> 00:16:42,871 She had cosmetic surgery and elocution lessons, 288 00:16:43,002 --> 00:16:45,004 and she changed her name. 289 00:16:45,134 --> 00:16:48,659 A new person, Anne, emerged from the tragedy. 290 00:16:50,618 --> 00:16:52,248 Once she became the leader of a cult, 291 00:16:52,272 --> 00:16:54,448 and could get whatever she wanted, 292 00:16:54,578 --> 00:16:57,233 one thing that she wanted was lots of little children. 293 00:16:57,364 --> 00:16:59,366 Lots of little perfect little children, 294 00:16:59,496 --> 00:17:00,536 in perfect little dresses, 295 00:17:00,584 --> 00:17:01,864 with perfect little blonde hair. 296 00:17:04,197 --> 00:17:06,068 - I made her pregnancy clothes. 297 00:17:07,939 --> 00:17:09,265 Tell us about her pregnancy clothes. 298 00:17:09,289 --> 00:17:09,985 - Yes. 299 00:17:10,116 --> 00:17:10,812 Do tell. 300 00:17:10,942 --> 00:17:12,205 - Yes, all right. 301 00:17:16,165 --> 00:17:18,274 I can actually draw it if you've got a piece of paper, 302 00:17:18,298 --> 00:17:18,907 I'll draw you 303 00:17:19,038 --> 00:17:20,038 - Just explain to me. 304 00:17:23,172 --> 00:17:26,175 Yeah, well it went on a yoke, very full sleeves. 305 00:17:26,306 --> 00:17:29,309 I made hundreds of them for years. 306 00:17:30,614 --> 00:17:31,311 How many pregnancies do you think 307 00:17:31,441 --> 00:17:33,356 she would have gone through? 308 00:17:33,487 --> 00:17:35,030 - Well, it seemed to go on for years, Lex. 309 00:17:35,054 --> 00:17:36,838 That I was making these clothes. 310 00:17:36,968 --> 00:17:38,274 Why? 311 00:17:38,361 --> 00:17:40,233 - She seemed to be pregnant all the time. 312 00:17:40,363 --> 00:17:41,843 Just one after the other, 313 00:17:41,973 --> 00:17:44,715 plus she had the triplets, she told me. 314 00:17:45,803 --> 00:17:47,849 Did you ever see her actually pregnant? 315 00:17:47,979 --> 00:17:50,025 I never felt her stomach. 316 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,178 - Anne told me one night that three of the children 317 00:17:53,202 --> 00:17:55,813 were her triplets, that she'd had them. 318 00:17:55,944 --> 00:17:57,864 She just looked me straight in the face and said, 319 00:17:57,946 --> 00:17:59,252 "I had these three children." 320 00:17:59,339 --> 00:18:03,169 I'm thinking, "You didn't have those three children. 321 00:18:03,299 --> 00:18:05,147 "You must think I'm a bloody idiot to tell me that." 322 00:18:07,129 --> 00:18:08,696 But I just said, "Oh, yes, okay." 323 00:18:08,826 --> 00:18:10,350 Agreed with her. 324 00:18:10,437 --> 00:18:12,395 She's not somebody you argue with. 325 00:18:15,398 --> 00:18:17,487 - Anne Hamilton-Byrne's age, 326 00:18:17,618 --> 00:18:19,359 meant they couldn't be her children. 327 00:18:20,273 --> 00:18:22,057 She'd had a hysterectomy years before 328 00:18:22,144 --> 00:18:24,712 some of these children were born. 329 00:18:24,842 --> 00:18:27,889 It wasn't difficult for people that actually questioned it. 330 00:18:31,197 --> 00:18:33,242 The truth is, we weren't their children. 331 00:18:35,636 --> 00:18:38,682 So while they created that construct, we weren't. 332 00:18:45,298 --> 00:18:47,909 - We were all children who had no identity whatsoever. 333 00:18:49,345 --> 00:18:51,173 Didn't know our own parents, really. 334 00:18:54,045 --> 00:18:58,615 Our identities were carved out by one person, 335 00:18:58,746 --> 00:19:00,313 to suit them. 336 00:19:02,053 --> 00:19:03,794 My dad was Bill's son. 337 00:19:06,101 --> 00:19:08,799 So that obviously, Bill was not my father, 338 00:19:08,930 --> 00:19:09,930 but my grandfather. 339 00:19:11,367 --> 00:19:13,935 My mother and father met in Newhaven, 340 00:19:14,065 --> 00:19:16,677 which is a mental institution. 341 00:19:16,764 --> 00:19:19,767 Dad could see that he was unable to look after me. 342 00:19:19,897 --> 00:19:23,771 And of course Bill said, he would be able to. 343 00:19:28,558 --> 00:19:30,952 - I feel so, so sorry for my dad, 344 00:19:32,954 --> 00:19:35,217 because he really didn't have a choice in the matter. 345 00:19:38,351 --> 00:19:41,310 They had been looking after Anouree, 346 00:19:41,441 --> 00:19:44,748 because Treena had become pretty unstable. 347 00:19:47,316 --> 00:19:52,103 They put a bit of paper in front of her to sign. 348 00:19:52,234 --> 00:19:53,994 Who was the guardianship to go to, Anne? 349 00:19:54,018 --> 00:19:56,456 Dad and Anne. 350 00:19:56,586 --> 00:19:58,936 At the time I can remember thinking, 351 00:20:00,547 --> 00:20:02,766 "She couldn't be in a better place." 352 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,646 Most of the time in my career, 353 00:20:12,776 --> 00:20:14,865 I actually didn't take stuff home with me, 354 00:20:14,996 --> 00:20:16,693 but this case I did. 355 00:20:18,086 --> 00:20:21,089 My wife actually became very involved with the kids as well. 356 00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:25,746 It's almost like they become part of your family, I guess. 357 00:20:29,924 --> 00:20:31,969 - I remember as a 15 year old, 358 00:20:32,056 --> 00:20:35,103 the surreal experience of knowing Anne wasn't my mother. 359 00:20:35,234 --> 00:20:36,844 And then who was? 360 00:20:38,759 --> 00:20:40,039 They speak of winning the lotto, 361 00:20:41,196 --> 00:20:42,545 think of the exact opposite. 362 00:20:44,155 --> 00:20:45,156 It was Auntie Joy. 363 00:20:52,947 --> 00:20:53,947 Yeah, it wasn't good. 364 00:20:56,559 --> 00:21:00,215 She said, "Listen, you're an embarrassment to me, 365 00:21:00,346 --> 00:21:01,999 don't bother turning up on the door, 366 00:21:02,130 --> 00:21:03,450 I'll close the door in your face." 367 00:21:03,523 --> 00:21:06,917 So that terminated any possibility 368 00:21:07,048 --> 00:21:10,617 of a mother/son relationship very quickly. 369 00:21:10,747 --> 00:21:12,880 - Are you a follower of Mrs Hamilton-Byrne's? 370 00:21:13,010 --> 00:21:14,621 - I'm a friend of Mrs Hamilton-Byrne. 371 00:21:14,751 --> 00:21:16,318 - Do you believe she's a teacher? 372 00:21:16,449 --> 00:21:17,841 - I believe that she is just 373 00:21:17,972 --> 00:21:19,930 a great friend of mine, all right? 374 00:21:20,061 --> 00:21:23,020 - I was adopted legally by Trish and Don Webb. 375 00:21:23,151 --> 00:21:24,191 And then once they got me, 376 00:21:24,239 --> 00:21:26,154 they handed me over to Anne. 377 00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:28,069 And I know for a fact that my mother actually 378 00:21:28,199 --> 00:21:30,767 started looking for me when she married my stepfather. 379 00:21:30,898 --> 00:21:33,248 So she'd been looking for me probably a year 380 00:21:33,335 --> 00:21:35,119 after I had been adopted out. 381 00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:39,385 And she tells me that it was like, 382 00:21:39,515 --> 00:21:40,734 that something was missing. 383 00:21:44,303 --> 00:21:47,697 - At the birth, we've got a doctor who's a sect member, 384 00:21:47,828 --> 00:21:50,309 a midwife that's a sect member, 385 00:21:50,439 --> 00:21:53,007 a social worker that's a sect member, 386 00:21:53,137 --> 00:21:54,530 and the head of the sect, 387 00:21:54,617 --> 00:21:55,817 standing outside the hospital. 388 00:21:57,664 --> 00:21:59,970 And within a period of 15 to 20 minutes from birth, 389 00:22:00,101 --> 00:22:01,885 child born, child taken. 390 00:22:06,281 --> 00:22:08,370 - I was born at Royal Women's Hospital. 391 00:22:08,501 --> 00:22:11,286 And Auntie Anne had all the people working there. 392 00:22:11,417 --> 00:22:13,680 That's how she obtained some of us kids. 393 00:22:15,812 --> 00:22:16,812 I was just handed over. 394 00:22:19,033 --> 00:22:22,297 I'm sure my mom was coerced to give me up, 395 00:22:22,384 --> 00:22:25,039 and I don't believe that she really wanted to. 396 00:22:25,169 --> 00:22:27,868 'Cause why else would you revoke the adoption three times? 397 00:22:28,999 --> 00:22:31,001 And then they can't find me. 398 00:22:31,132 --> 00:22:33,439 The legal system goes, "Where is this baby?" 399 00:22:35,876 --> 00:22:38,574 - I mean, I knew Roland wasn't my biological brother. 400 00:22:39,662 --> 00:22:42,535 I was told that Roland was to be presented 401 00:22:42,665 --> 00:22:46,016 as the child of Don Webb and Elizabeth Whitaker. 402 00:22:46,974 --> 00:22:49,237 And I was also told at the very outset 403 00:22:49,368 --> 00:22:52,371 that if Roland ever discovered that he was adopted, 404 00:22:52,501 --> 00:22:53,502 he would kill himself. 405 00:22:55,765 --> 00:22:57,245 And I guess I believed that. 406 00:22:57,376 --> 00:22:59,029 So I was was very, very careful. 407 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,380 Never, ever, ever to tell Roland he was adopted. 408 00:23:05,079 --> 00:23:08,691 - Lex de Man gave me the option to leave The Family, 409 00:23:10,127 --> 00:23:12,913 for me to become award of the state. 410 00:23:13,043 --> 00:23:15,524 So, I had to make a decision then and there, 411 00:23:16,656 --> 00:23:18,179 what I wanted to do. 412 00:23:19,398 --> 00:23:21,965 And I had to make the decision to stick with my family. 413 00:23:23,837 --> 00:23:27,057 Because I couldn't see a future, being taken away. 414 00:23:28,276 --> 00:23:31,410 My loyalty was with my mom and dad, and Auntie Anne, 415 00:23:31,540 --> 00:23:33,063 and that was very strong. 416 00:23:39,940 --> 00:23:42,116 - Roland wasn't the only child we were worried about. 417 00:23:43,813 --> 00:23:45,138 Anne and her followers had bought up 418 00:23:45,162 --> 00:23:46,773 a lot of the houses in Ferny Creek. 419 00:23:48,775 --> 00:23:50,690 Many of them had swapped partners 420 00:23:50,820 --> 00:23:53,649 so they were living with children who weren't their own. 421 00:23:55,346 --> 00:23:57,261 There were allegations of rampant drug use, 422 00:23:57,392 --> 00:23:58,392 and harsh discipline. 423 00:24:04,051 --> 00:24:05,922 - My mother gave birth to me at 16, 424 00:24:08,229 --> 00:24:10,971 so, you've got one child looking after a baby 425 00:24:11,058 --> 00:24:14,670 with absolutely no support from her own family. 426 00:24:17,412 --> 00:24:19,936 Going forwards to 1970, 427 00:24:20,067 --> 00:24:23,810 my mother had married one of the cult members. 428 00:24:23,940 --> 00:24:27,030 I came home from school one day, I was about 10. 429 00:24:28,945 --> 00:24:32,340 My mother was almost in a coma, I couldn't rouse her, 430 00:24:32,471 --> 00:24:33,907 and I became very concerned. 431 00:24:35,735 --> 00:24:37,214 I called the neighbours. 432 00:24:37,345 --> 00:24:40,435 And then, Elizabeth Whitaker was sent up. 433 00:24:40,566 --> 00:24:43,786 Elizabeth Whitaker was a registered nurse, 434 00:24:43,917 --> 00:24:45,919 one of Anne Hamilton-Byrne's lieutenants. 435 00:24:51,054 --> 00:24:55,145 I was told, that my mother had been put in hospital. 436 00:24:55,232 --> 00:24:57,887 And, it may be some time before I see her. 437 00:25:00,542 --> 00:25:04,894 Elizabeth, presented as a very friendly, caring woman. 438 00:25:06,853 --> 00:25:09,595 She said, "Oh, look, you can come and stay with me." 439 00:25:18,821 --> 00:25:21,171 I was just told, "Well, she's a bit unwell, 440 00:25:21,302 --> 00:25:24,174 and she's not a very good mother, 441 00:25:24,305 --> 00:25:27,264 and look, you've got all those lovely people here, 442 00:25:27,395 --> 00:25:29,092 all those aunties, and uncles, 443 00:25:29,223 --> 00:25:31,007 and their nurses and doctors. 444 00:25:31,094 --> 00:25:32,792 They'll look after you, you'll be fine." 445 00:25:36,186 --> 00:25:39,320 About a year after that, round about 1971 446 00:25:40,495 --> 00:25:44,107 pulled me aside one day and he said, 447 00:25:44,194 --> 00:25:47,589 "I'm going to give you a healing on the weekend." 448 00:25:48,895 --> 00:25:50,786 And he said, "I'm going to put a scarf around your head. 449 00:25:50,810 --> 00:25:53,377 I'm going to give you psilocybin, 450 00:25:53,508 --> 00:25:55,815 and you're going to see pretty colours." 451 00:25:58,948 --> 00:26:00,907 Then I was in a completely different world. 452 00:26:04,911 --> 00:26:07,435 I felt pressure on my chest, and I felt hands on me, 453 00:26:10,177 --> 00:26:13,484 down towards my genital area, then around the back. 454 00:26:14,747 --> 00:26:17,924 For the next few days I've had bleeding from my anus, 455 00:26:18,011 --> 00:26:19,839 and I had a lot of pain round that area. 456 00:26:21,971 --> 00:26:25,192 I know that he sexually assaulted me 457 00:26:25,322 --> 00:26:28,064 in some way, form, or shape. 458 00:26:36,682 --> 00:26:39,423 - I don't think at first anyone in the authorities 459 00:26:39,510 --> 00:26:42,252 realised the complexities of the sect. 460 00:26:42,383 --> 00:26:45,821 And so, they thought they were perhaps dealing with 461 00:26:45,952 --> 00:26:49,608 a child abuse case, and they were. 462 00:26:49,695 --> 00:26:52,698 But I don't think they realised the layers underneath that. 463 00:27:00,053 --> 00:27:02,664 - I really don't believe anyone knew what to do. 464 00:27:06,886 --> 00:27:09,279 This was the first time they had a group of 465 00:27:09,410 --> 00:27:11,630 x number of kids coming out of a completely 466 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:12,979 controlled environment, 467 00:27:13,109 --> 00:27:14,696 and trying to interface them into the world. 468 00:27:18,854 --> 00:27:21,291 We took the girls back to their prison. 469 00:27:21,422 --> 00:27:23,990 For them it brought back memories of terror. 470 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:25,339 - When we'd be naughty, 471 00:27:25,426 --> 00:27:26,577 they'd lock us in the shed for the night. 472 00:27:26,601 --> 00:27:27,602 The night? 473 00:27:27,733 --> 00:27:29,082 Yeah. 474 00:27:29,212 --> 00:27:30,039 - Well, the police knew I knew a lot, 475 00:27:30,170 --> 00:27:32,476 so they wanted to pick my brains. 476 00:27:33,739 --> 00:27:36,263 Because by then, I'd done dozens of stories on the sect. 477 00:27:36,393 --> 00:27:37,793 I spent a lot of time with the kids. 478 00:27:39,396 --> 00:27:42,835 They became visitors to my house. 479 00:27:42,922 --> 00:27:44,750 Some of them lived with us for years. 480 00:27:47,187 --> 00:27:49,624 I do remember one of my bosses saying to me at one stage, 481 00:27:49,755 --> 00:27:52,409 "Are you a social worker or a journalist?" 482 00:27:52,540 --> 00:27:53,820 And I said, "Well, at the moment 483 00:27:53,889 --> 00:27:55,009 it seems I'm a bit of both." 484 00:27:58,285 --> 00:28:00,330 - For years I had believed that there was no escape. 485 00:28:00,417 --> 00:28:01,699 I had been brought up to fear and expect 486 00:28:01,723 --> 00:28:03,638 the worst of the outside world. 487 00:28:05,074 --> 00:28:07,816 I had been taught that police 488 00:28:07,947 --> 00:28:09,267 and other outsiders would hurt us. 489 00:28:10,036 --> 00:28:12,865 And that men would want to rape us. 490 00:28:12,995 --> 00:28:14,795 - Well, when I ran away it was very difficult, 491 00:28:14,910 --> 00:28:17,062 because we weren't taught anything about the outside world. 492 00:28:17,086 --> 00:28:18,697 I didn't even know how to cross a road. 493 00:28:20,699 --> 00:28:21,874 I remember going to the bank, 494 00:28:22,004 --> 00:28:23,702 and asking them if I could borrow $50, 495 00:28:23,832 --> 00:28:25,878 to go and buy clothes. 496 00:28:26,008 --> 00:28:28,576 So, I mean they must have thought I was really weird. 497 00:28:30,056 --> 00:28:31,250 - I was made award of the State and 498 00:28:31,274 --> 00:28:32,841 I struggled, 499 00:28:32,972 --> 00:28:35,714 Failed HSC, got a job, got sacked from it. 500 00:28:35,844 --> 00:28:38,760 I'd been quite suicidal, very depressed. 501 00:28:38,891 --> 00:28:40,327 I was starved of love. 502 00:28:42,155 --> 00:28:45,114 You open doors to things, in pursuit of that love. 503 00:28:45,201 --> 00:28:46,855 I had to be very careful, 504 00:28:46,986 --> 00:28:48,727 that I didn't fall into another cult. 505 00:28:51,860 --> 00:28:53,470 - I was in and out of a psych unit, 506 00:28:53,601 --> 00:28:54,881 because I wanted to kill myself. 507 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:57,929 And sometimes the anger was so deep, 508 00:28:57,953 --> 00:28:59,825 I'd be - you're standing up, 509 00:28:59,955 --> 00:29:01,280 and you're storming around the house going, 510 00:29:01,304 --> 00:29:02,915 "I can't calm down, I can't calm down." 511 00:29:03,045 --> 00:29:04,786 Because I just didn't know. 512 00:29:04,917 --> 00:29:06,135 And you'd stop and you'd. 513 00:29:07,049 --> 00:29:07,746 at the floor. 514 00:29:07,876 --> 00:29:09,835 You know, you just... 515 00:29:09,922 --> 00:29:12,185 I can't actually articulate the strength of it. 516 00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:15,425 - I feel as though Anne and the other members 517 00:29:15,449 --> 00:29:16,929 of the sect stole my childhood. 518 00:29:18,931 --> 00:29:21,585 I resent not being allowed to go to a normal school, 519 00:29:21,716 --> 00:29:24,066 and not being allowed to form normal relationships. 520 00:29:25,633 --> 00:29:26,953 - Do you want to stop for a while? 521 00:29:26,982 --> 00:29:29,768 Or do you want to keep trying to go? 522 00:29:29,855 --> 00:29:31,073 - I'll keep going. 523 00:29:40,866 --> 00:29:45,000 - You could see, they wanted something done 524 00:29:45,087 --> 00:29:46,610 about what had happened to them. 525 00:29:46,741 --> 00:29:50,527 But, you didn't really want to expose them to 526 00:29:52,616 --> 00:29:55,837 the pressures and the trauma of having to relive all that 527 00:29:55,924 --> 00:29:57,665 and give evidence in a witness box. 528 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,888 - The black three cornered cane was one of the most feared. 529 00:30:03,018 --> 00:30:06,021 - You couldn't hear those stories without it affecting you, 530 00:30:06,152 --> 00:30:07,936 if you had any heart at all. 531 00:30:09,155 --> 00:30:12,071 And that's why the police, did become so involved. 532 00:30:12,201 --> 00:30:13,812 They wanted justice for those children. 533 00:30:16,336 --> 00:30:16,771 We've been blown up all over the place 534 00:30:16,902 --> 00:30:18,164 the place now. 535 00:30:18,251 --> 00:30:20,209 You think about it, you've got enough brains 536 00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:21,863 those of you who are left. 537 00:30:21,994 --> 00:30:25,040 Every rebuff is a challenge. 538 00:30:25,171 --> 00:30:27,564 So I'm saying to you, go forward. 539 00:30:30,176 --> 00:30:31,699 All the powers of darkness, rise up, 540 00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:33,092 and try to overwhelm us. 541 00:30:33,179 --> 00:30:36,660 But, I have done my best and I'm still there. 542 00:30:36,791 --> 00:30:40,882 Those who are devoted to me, realise this, 543 00:30:40,969 --> 00:30:42,971 and they are united with me. 544 00:30:43,102 --> 00:30:45,756 Many retreat back into their darkness. 545 00:30:45,887 --> 00:30:47,062 And that's what's happened, 546 00:30:47,193 --> 00:30:48,629 to those who have left. 547 00:30:48,759 --> 00:30:51,240 Self-interest, doesn't make you seek. 548 00:30:51,371 --> 00:30:52,981 No, I'm not half nuts... 549 00:30:53,112 --> 00:30:55,418 - We knew that she had committed crimes. 550 00:30:55,549 --> 00:30:58,682 We knew that, we needed to get her back in this country. 551 00:30:58,813 --> 00:31:00,573 We knew that we had to get her before a court, 552 00:31:00,597 --> 00:31:02,773 for everyone involved in this sect to see, 553 00:31:02,861 --> 00:31:04,210 that no one is above the law. 554 00:31:06,952 --> 00:31:09,041 - Mum, just was blindly, 555 00:31:09,171 --> 00:31:11,608 following everything that she said and did. 556 00:31:13,654 --> 00:31:15,786 She met Albert Baker. 557 00:31:15,917 --> 00:31:19,660 He was another sect member, and she ended up marrying him. 558 00:31:23,142 --> 00:31:24,752 It was really a bigamous marriage, 559 00:31:24,883 --> 00:31:27,581 because she was actually still married to my father. 560 00:31:29,583 --> 00:31:32,151 Albert! smile you're on camera now. 561 00:31:34,370 --> 00:31:36,459 I think that's enough of that. 562 00:31:36,590 --> 00:31:38,766 - How did Anne Hamilton Byrne, 563 00:31:38,897 --> 00:31:42,857 come to have control over the lives of nearly 30 children? 564 00:31:42,944 --> 00:31:44,264 Well, she could never have done it 565 00:31:44,293 --> 00:31:47,644 without the grownup members of her so-called Family. 566 00:31:47,731 --> 00:31:48,950 This report, from Marie Mohr. 567 00:31:50,517 --> 00:31:51,997 } Photographer, Alan Crisp, 568 00:31:52,084 --> 00:31:54,564 a sect member for over a decade. 569 00:31:54,695 --> 00:31:56,088 "Is Anne still your guru? 570 00:31:56,218 --> 00:31:58,917 Even though, you know the children were locked away now. 571 00:31:59,047 --> 00:32:00,483 Is she still your guru Alan?" 572 00:32:00,570 --> 00:32:01,267 - Get lost Marie. 573 00:32:01,397 --> 00:32:02,877 Get bloody lost. 574 00:32:03,008 --> 00:32:05,097 Other members include general practitioners, 575 00:32:05,227 --> 00:32:08,404 Dr Christine Fleming and Dr John McKay. 576 00:32:10,667 --> 00:32:13,932 - She targeted the people that she wanted. 577 00:32:14,062 --> 00:32:17,022 And the people that she wanted, had either money 578 00:32:17,109 --> 00:32:19,720 or had expectations of money. 579 00:32:19,850 --> 00:32:20,982 Everyone had a job. 580 00:32:21,069 --> 00:32:22,723 But then they came home, 581 00:32:22,853 --> 00:32:25,987 and then she had tasks for them to do. 582 00:32:26,118 --> 00:32:29,164 And people were working, you know, 16 hours a day. 583 00:32:29,295 --> 00:32:32,863 And working, and working, and overworking 584 00:32:32,951 --> 00:32:35,214 to the point of exhaustion. 585 00:32:35,301 --> 00:32:39,000 And nothing was ever quite right or never enough. 586 00:32:40,088 --> 00:32:43,048 Pretty much standard brainwashing technique. 587 00:32:44,963 --> 00:32:46,766 Yesterday, seven members of Anne Hamilton 588 00:32:46,790 --> 00:32:49,532 Byrne's sect, pleaded guilty of defrauding the Commonwealth 589 00:32:49,619 --> 00:32:51,665 over total of $195,000. 590 00:32:53,449 --> 00:32:54,146 - No comment. 591 00:32:54,233 --> 00:32:55,408 - No comment. 592 00:32:55,538 --> 00:32:57,149 The three of those women, 593 00:32:57,279 --> 00:33:01,022 Helen Buchanan, Elizabeth Whitaker, and Margot Maclellan 594 00:33:01,153 --> 00:33:03,677 were among the women Anne Hamilton-Byrne ordered 595 00:33:03,807 --> 00:33:06,027 to look after the children locked away on the sect's 596 00:33:06,114 --> 00:33:07,159 Lake Eildon property. 597 00:33:09,074 --> 00:33:10,921 Mum had done a lot of illegal stuff with Auntie Anne, 598 00:33:10,945 --> 00:33:13,382 or for Auntie Anne. 599 00:33:14,818 --> 00:33:17,865 She was charged and put in prison for Social Security fraud. 600 00:33:17,996 --> 00:33:19,867 She was pissed off about it. 601 00:33:19,998 --> 00:33:21,347 But, Auntie Anne was her guru. 602 00:33:22,913 --> 00:33:25,394 So she stood by her thick and thin. 603 00:33:28,441 --> 00:33:30,834 Auntie Anne sucked as much money out of people 604 00:33:30,965 --> 00:33:32,967 as she possibly could. 605 00:33:33,098 --> 00:33:36,275 Anybody who joined The Family, had to pay dues. 606 00:33:36,405 --> 00:33:37,928 Money to go and do the meditation, 607 00:33:38,059 --> 00:33:39,713 money to go and do the yoga, 608 00:33:39,843 --> 00:33:45,023 money to fund this, money to fund that, you know. 609 00:33:46,415 --> 00:33:48,775 Auntie Anne very rarely put her own hands in her own pocket. 610 00:33:54,945 --> 00:33:56,010 - We estimated Anne's wealth 611 00:33:56,034 --> 00:33:57,818 to be around $50 million. 612 00:33:59,211 --> 00:34:01,996 To be a member of the sect, you had to donate part of your 613 00:34:02,127 --> 00:34:04,651 wages to Anne, and that included the Aunties 614 00:34:06,957 --> 00:34:09,917 They actually had to pay Anne the privilege 615 00:34:12,224 --> 00:34:13,573 of caring for the children, 616 00:34:13,703 --> 00:34:15,463 socalled 'caring' for the children at Eildon. 617 00:34:18,143 --> 00:34:19,927 Anne was ambitious. 618 00:34:20,058 --> 00:34:22,147 She wanted to expand the cult. 619 00:34:22,277 --> 00:34:24,801 So she bought several properties in Australia, and England, 620 00:34:24,932 --> 00:34:26,586 and also near Hurleyville, 621 00:34:26,673 --> 00:34:29,110 A town in the Catskill Mountains in upstate New York. 622 00:34:35,421 --> 00:34:37,031 } This is Swami Muktananda, 623 00:34:37,162 --> 00:34:38,946 the head of a multimillion dollar empire, 624 00:34:39,077 --> 00:34:40,948 and described by his followers as 625 00:34:41,035 --> 00:34:43,081 one of the most significant figures in contemporary, 626 00:34:43,211 --> 00:34:45,039 spiritual life. 627 00:34:45,170 --> 00:34:46,954 Based in India, he travels the world 628 00:34:47,085 --> 00:34:50,131 recruiting adherents, showing people the way. 629 00:34:50,262 --> 00:34:54,440 In the seventies, there were quite a few yogis, 630 00:34:54,570 --> 00:34:59,358 coming over to the West, and attaining a lot of 631 00:35:00,141 --> 00:35:02,839 money, and fame, and power. 632 00:35:02,970 --> 00:35:04,928 But he was one of the biggest. 633 00:35:05,059 --> 00:35:07,975 I mean, he was followed by a lot of celebrities. 634 00:35:08,106 --> 00:35:11,892 There were ashrams and centres, all over the world. 635 00:35:12,022 --> 00:35:14,416 Thousands and thousands of devotees. 636 00:35:15,852 --> 00:35:18,333 While I was on tour with Muktananda, 637 00:35:18,464 --> 00:35:22,729 Anne Hamilton-Byrne showed up. 638 00:35:27,386 --> 00:35:30,911 She had her whole entourage with her, 639 00:35:31,041 --> 00:35:35,655 of these small children, with dyed blonde hair, 640 00:35:37,135 --> 00:35:38,415 and identical bows in their hair. 641 00:35:39,267 --> 00:35:41,095 She was like this spider, 642 00:35:42,618 --> 00:35:44,185 with all these little baby spiders. 643 00:35:44,316 --> 00:35:47,232 It was one of the strangest things I've ever seen. 644 00:35:49,364 --> 00:35:50,583 She had a lot of money. 645 00:35:50,670 --> 00:35:51,870 I don't know where she got it. 646 00:35:51,975 --> 00:35:54,848 But she bought a property very near the Ashram. 647 00:35:54,978 --> 00:35:56,806 And they would come stay there. 648 00:36:00,549 --> 00:36:02,551 - We'd go to the Ashram, every afternoon. 649 00:36:02,682 --> 00:36:04,205 So Anne could show us off to, 650 00:36:04,336 --> 00:36:06,033 the Swami Muktananda clan, 651 00:36:06,990 --> 00:36:09,428 in order that perhaps, 652 00:36:09,515 --> 00:36:12,474 one or two of them at least would transfer over to her cult. 653 00:36:12,605 --> 00:36:13,475 - She was jealous. 654 00:36:13,562 --> 00:36:15,347 I mean, she was the Messiah. 655 00:36:16,696 --> 00:36:20,917 She should be followed by, all these many beautiful people! 656 00:36:21,701 --> 00:36:23,964 But I got this sense, that, 657 00:36:24,094 --> 00:36:28,534 Anne was there to get power from Muktananda. 658 00:36:28,621 --> 00:36:31,798 And Muktananda was there, to show up Anne. 659 00:36:33,365 --> 00:36:37,195 He gave her the name, Ma Yoga Shakti. 660 00:36:37,325 --> 00:36:40,198 Ma Yoga Shakti means "the great mother Shakti". 661 00:36:42,722 --> 00:36:44,762 I mean, it was like he was making a joke out of her. 662 00:36:46,029 --> 00:36:48,118 People would sit in meditation, 663 00:36:48,249 --> 00:36:49,705 and he'd go around, and either swat you with 664 00:36:49,729 --> 00:36:51,557 this big peacock feather wand. 665 00:36:54,124 --> 00:36:56,823 He was practising all these ancient techniques. 666 00:36:56,953 --> 00:36:59,042 That if you do them enough times, 667 00:36:59,173 --> 00:37:02,655 you actually attained powers to take over someone. 668 00:37:05,701 --> 00:37:10,793 I know that Muktananda, practised black magic. 669 00:37:12,142 --> 00:37:15,015 I believe that that's why Anne was there to be around him, 670 00:37:15,145 --> 00:37:16,451 and to learn more about it. 671 00:37:19,498 --> 00:37:22,631 Anne told everybody that she had certain powers. 672 00:37:22,762 --> 00:37:25,808 She would put a curse on people, if they did anything wrong, 673 00:37:25,939 --> 00:37:28,028 or something that she didn't like. 674 00:37:28,158 --> 00:37:29,878 She used to have these little blocks of ice, 675 00:37:29,986 --> 00:37:32,859 where she'd put people's names in the freezer. 676 00:37:32,989 --> 00:37:35,270 Any of the police that were involved in trying to help us, 677 00:37:35,383 --> 00:37:37,037 she would put their names in the ice. 678 00:37:40,301 --> 00:37:41,496 } And what would happen if their names 679 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:42,738 were in the ice? 680 00:37:42,869 --> 00:37:43,933 - She would do something evil to them, 681 00:37:43,957 --> 00:37:45,611 and they would suddenly fall sick. 682 00:37:45,741 --> 00:37:47,874 The only person that could saved them would be her. 683 00:37:51,138 --> 00:37:53,029 } The fact is, that the enormous 684 00:37:53,053 --> 00:37:55,882 majority of people, do not want this knowledge. 685 00:37:57,536 --> 00:38:01,409 The fact is, they would like to see me dead 686 00:38:02,410 --> 00:38:04,064 - Anne cursed me because I betrayed her. 687 00:38:05,979 --> 00:38:09,069 Betrayed the cult motto of unseen, unheard, unknown. 688 00:38:09,199 --> 00:38:12,681 And dared to tell the police what was happening 689 00:38:12,812 --> 00:38:14,683 to the other children. 690 00:38:14,814 --> 00:38:19,079 And once I betrayed her, I was the Judas. 691 00:38:19,209 --> 00:38:22,952 Every Messiah has to have a Judas, I guess 692 00:38:23,083 --> 00:38:24,190 - What effect would that have a curse on you? 693 00:38:24,214 --> 00:38:24,824 - I thought I going to die because 694 00:38:24,954 --> 00:38:26,216 I'd done the statement. 695 00:38:27,783 --> 00:38:30,220 - How did you believe you'd die? 696 00:38:31,961 --> 00:38:33,441 By what means? 697 00:38:33,572 --> 00:38:37,227 I don't know. I just knew I was going to. 698 00:38:37,315 --> 00:38:40,318 Because you can't betray your master and expect to live. 699 00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:47,150 - A young man dared to criticise, and disagree with Anne. 700 00:38:47,281 --> 00:38:49,849 She says, "You've turned away from the light. 701 00:38:53,069 --> 00:38:54,629 You are going to die of a heart attack." 702 00:38:56,595 --> 00:38:57,813 So what did he do? 703 00:38:57,944 --> 00:39:00,642 He went home and had a heart attack. 704 00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:17,006 No one thought they were going off worshipping the devil. 705 00:39:19,008 --> 00:39:23,317 People have been used to thinking of evil as being ugly 706 00:39:23,448 --> 00:39:24,927 whereas it's not. 707 00:39:25,058 --> 00:39:26,059 It looks beautiful. 708 00:39:26,189 --> 00:39:29,976 It can use everything, even love, 709 00:39:30,063 --> 00:39:32,631 to get it's own way to get power. 710 00:39:32,761 --> 00:39:34,372 } That's beautiful. 711 00:39:34,502 --> 00:39:35,851 Now that's really beautiful. 712 00:39:35,982 --> 00:39:37,418 Right, honey? 713 00:39:37,549 --> 00:39:39,028 - Beautiful boys. 714 00:39:39,159 --> 00:39:39,899 } Stay like that for awhile. 715 00:39:40,029 --> 00:39:41,509 It's beautiful. 716 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:42,747 } She was lovely to me, and kind. 717 00:39:42,771 --> 00:39:45,252 Something that my mother would never be, you know? 718 00:39:45,383 --> 00:39:46,601 } Who was this? 719 00:39:46,732 --> 00:39:48,211 } Anne. 720 00:39:48,342 --> 00:39:51,824 Beautiful boys for the children-oh how lovely. 721 00:39:51,954 --> 00:39:56,611 - I'd never had so much love poured on me, really, you know. 722 00:39:56,742 --> 00:39:57,960 Because I was an incest child, 723 00:39:58,091 --> 00:40:01,181 and I just had never experienced love. 724 00:40:03,313 --> 00:40:05,011 - She wasn't giving love. 725 00:40:05,141 --> 00:40:09,145 She was offering it, and then taking it back. 726 00:40:09,232 --> 00:40:12,061 That's how she made those poor Aunties. 727 00:40:12,192 --> 00:40:15,238 At Eildon, do these appalling things to children. 728 00:40:15,369 --> 00:40:16,544 She broke their spirit. 729 00:40:26,946 --> 00:40:28,164 - Sometimes she'd look at you, 730 00:40:28,295 --> 00:40:29,735 and you thought she really loved you. 731 00:40:29,862 --> 00:40:31,603 I don't know. 732 00:40:31,733 --> 00:40:33,866 It's hard to say just how devoted we were to her, 733 00:40:33,996 --> 00:40:36,651 and how much we hung off every look. 734 00:40:36,782 --> 00:40:38,142 And every thought she had about us. 735 00:40:38,174 --> 00:40:40,438 We wanted so much for her to love us. 736 00:40:40,568 --> 00:40:41,850 But I don't think she ever really did. 737 00:40:44,311 --> 00:40:48,620 - I took it on myself, to talk to one of the psychiatrists 738 00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:50,404 who'd dropped out of the group. 739 00:40:50,535 --> 00:40:52,798 And I said, "What would you say Anne is, 740 00:40:52,928 --> 00:40:54,756 medically speaking?" 741 00:40:54,887 --> 00:40:56,584 And he said, "Well, she's a psychopath." 742 00:40:59,021 --> 00:41:03,373 She was intuitively, diabolically, 743 00:41:03,461 --> 00:41:06,376 able to see into people. 744 00:41:11,164 --> 00:41:12,557 } In the 1950s and 60s, 745 00:41:12,687 --> 00:41:14,950 medical and military circles were experimenting 746 00:41:15,081 --> 00:41:17,213 with LSD as a truth drug. 747 00:41:18,867 --> 00:41:20,869 Even the CIA and the KGB were involved. 748 00:41:22,654 --> 00:41:24,743 Psychiatrists in The Family would have told Anne 749 00:41:24,830 --> 00:41:27,441 about its potential, to dig deep into the minds 750 00:41:27,572 --> 00:41:28,572 of her followers. 751 00:41:34,970 --> 00:41:38,191 - She found out everything. 752 00:41:38,321 --> 00:41:39,321 People under the drug, 753 00:41:39,366 --> 00:41:41,847 went back to their childhood, 754 00:41:41,977 --> 00:41:44,153 they told all their secrets, good and bad. 755 00:41:44,284 --> 00:41:46,939 - She would gather all that information, 756 00:41:47,069 --> 00:41:49,681 and use it later to destroy people's 757 00:41:49,811 --> 00:41:51,247 marriages and relationships. 758 00:41:51,378 --> 00:41:53,946 I'm not aware of any marriage that survived that Family. 759 00:41:59,168 --> 00:42:00,319 } The LSD was like an interrogation, 760 00:42:00,343 --> 00:42:02,868 which was always trying to get down to something, 761 00:42:02,998 --> 00:42:05,261 usually sexual or shameful. 762 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,310 - My whole life changed in 1984. 763 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:11,964 I changed personality. 764 00:42:15,533 --> 00:42:18,884 Became a different person, got initiated. 765 00:42:19,014 --> 00:42:21,408 I went over to England in September, October, 1984. 766 00:42:25,064 --> 00:42:28,720 I was put to bed up, in the guestroom upstairs at Broom. 767 00:42:28,850 --> 00:42:30,130 And then Anne gives you the LSD. 768 00:42:34,247 --> 00:42:36,031 And I was put under LSD, 769 00:42:38,033 --> 00:42:40,383 for a very long period of time. 770 00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:43,648 I think it was, a couple of weeks at least. 771 00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:49,001 - What makes you think it was a couple of weeks? 772 00:42:54,223 --> 00:42:54,963 - You know, I could kind of tell the 773 00:42:55,050 --> 00:42:57,052 days and nights going past, 774 00:42:57,183 --> 00:43:00,795 because of the clutter of the noise underneath, 775 00:43:00,926 --> 00:43:01,927 as they prepared food. 776 00:43:03,885 --> 00:43:05,645 She'd just come in like every 12 hours or so. 777 00:43:05,713 --> 00:43:06,845 And give me another piece, 778 00:43:06,975 --> 00:43:08,335 cause I wasn't working hard enough. 779 00:43:10,196 --> 00:43:14,069 - She had asked questions about your sexual thoughts, 780 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,202 your sexual desires, your sexual fantasies, 781 00:43:16,332 --> 00:43:17,527 what you liked, what you didn't like. 782 00:43:17,551 --> 00:43:19,379 Whether you were breastfed, 783 00:43:19,466 --> 00:43:20,666 whether you weren't breastfed, 784 00:43:20,728 --> 00:43:22,088 whether you were really homosexual, 785 00:43:22,121 --> 00:43:23,121 or whether you weren't. 786 00:43:25,820 --> 00:43:28,518 - We've been involved with Muktananda that, 787 00:43:28,606 --> 00:43:29,955 for a few years prior to that. 788 00:43:30,085 --> 00:43:34,220 And I was very attracted to him personally as a guru, 789 00:43:34,350 --> 00:43:38,572 And she really, really, really wanted me to deny him, 790 00:43:38,703 --> 00:43:40,879 and accept her as the living Christ. 791 00:43:41,009 --> 00:43:43,098 She really hammered me on it. 792 00:43:43,229 --> 00:43:47,799 Either to break me or she wanted me to be hers. 793 00:43:49,409 --> 00:43:52,238 - I was just out of it, for months. 794 00:43:56,677 --> 00:43:57,896 And then one day I woke up, 795 00:43:58,026 --> 00:44:00,202 as I was stepping into a car, 796 00:44:00,333 --> 00:44:01,464 to go somewhere with Bill. 797 00:44:08,558 --> 00:44:10,082 Bill said, "Oh, you're back with us." 798 00:44:10,212 --> 00:44:12,432 And it was several months after, what had happened. 799 00:44:15,348 --> 00:44:18,786 I just flipped out, into some sort of psychotic state. 800 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,019 - She seemed to use sex, 801 00:44:34,106 --> 00:44:38,110 to bring out the guilt that people felt. 802 00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:42,201 She would target the women in the group. 803 00:44:42,288 --> 00:44:45,030 Some of them had had multiple partners. 804 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:49,164 So she would publicly name them and shame them. 805 00:44:49,295 --> 00:44:52,428 It was a way of keeping them compliant. 806 00:45:00,959 --> 00:45:04,527 Anne treated pregnant women very badly. 807 00:45:04,658 --> 00:45:08,618 Pre and postnatal depression, was common. 808 00:45:08,706 --> 00:45:09,924 And it happened to me. 809 00:45:10,055 --> 00:45:12,013 She just told people that they weren't allowed 810 00:45:12,144 --> 00:45:13,362 to visit me at all, 811 00:45:13,493 --> 00:45:15,495 so I had no visitors. 812 00:45:15,625 --> 00:45:18,193 And, you know just, 813 00:45:18,324 --> 00:45:20,718 I got very depressed while I was pregnant. 814 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,764 I was very thin. 815 00:45:23,895 --> 00:45:25,548 I was shaking all the time. 816 00:45:25,679 --> 00:45:26,680 I couldn't drive. 817 00:45:26,811 --> 00:45:29,204 I couldn't think. 818 00:45:30,466 --> 00:45:34,296 And so she said, "Well, I'll take care of your children 819 00:45:34,427 --> 00:45:36,734 because you know, you're a wreck." 820 00:45:36,864 --> 00:45:39,214 And she sent me over to England for a year. 821 00:45:42,565 --> 00:45:45,655 - My children were sent up to Eildon 822 00:45:47,092 --> 00:45:48,789 and the results were catastrophic. 823 00:45:57,145 --> 00:46:00,932 David was very, very badly treated. 824 00:46:01,062 --> 00:46:04,805 He was given back to me when he was seven. 825 00:46:06,111 --> 00:46:09,636 Anne said, "If he'd stayed up there, he would have died." 826 00:46:09,767 --> 00:46:11,986 So she gave him back to me. 827 00:46:12,117 --> 00:46:13,335 He couldn't speak. 828 00:46:13,466 --> 00:46:14,772 He'd lost his speech. 829 00:46:17,209 --> 00:46:20,473 David has no memory now, 830 00:46:20,603 --> 00:46:23,781 of anything that happened to him before he was seven. 831 00:46:24,738 --> 00:46:25,738 Nothing. 832 00:46:29,221 --> 00:46:31,440 And, Matthew became very depressed. 833 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,314 He tried to take his life when he was 16. 834 00:46:37,185 --> 00:46:40,275 He couldn't come to terms with how he felt, 835 00:46:40,406 --> 00:46:41,799 his depression 836 00:46:41,886 --> 00:46:44,279 and he finally succumbed. 837 00:46:46,716 --> 00:46:49,807 Matthew suicided eventually when he was 20. 838 00:47:10,828 --> 00:47:13,004 - There was so many people that were so adversely 839 00:47:13,134 --> 00:47:15,354 affected by this group. 840 00:47:15,484 --> 00:47:16,268 That lost their money. 841 00:47:16,355 --> 00:47:17,835 That lost their properties. 842 00:47:17,965 --> 00:47:21,795 They lost their minds. 843 00:47:29,150 --> 00:47:31,065 I submitted a detailed report. 844 00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,982 And suggested that the only real way forward 845 00:47:35,069 --> 00:47:36,462 was a Royal Commission. 846 00:47:36,592 --> 00:47:40,335 Where many, many of these people could, 847 00:47:40,466 --> 00:47:43,338 and would come forward, and give evidence. 848 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,040 But, it was just rejected. 849 00:47:49,127 --> 00:47:51,085 I don't even know that it went anywhere, 850 00:47:51,216 --> 00:47:53,740 apart from my immediate superiors. 851 00:47:58,310 --> 00:48:00,268 - The wheels of justice were just too slow. 852 00:48:00,399 --> 00:48:02,116 Where was the justice for the adult victims? 853 00:48:02,140 --> 00:48:04,533 Where was the justice for the child victims? 854 00:48:04,664 --> 00:48:06,187 Why wasn't she made brought to account? 855 00:48:07,754 --> 00:48:11,366 We got word, that she was in Hawaii. 856 00:48:11,453 --> 00:48:12,933 It seemed to me it was about time that 857 00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:14,935 she answered some questions. 858 00:48:15,066 --> 00:48:16,154 Hello, Mrs. Hamilton Byrne. 859 00:48:16,284 --> 00:48:17,851 Marie Mohr from Channel Nine. 860 00:48:17,982 --> 00:48:19,785 Have you got any comment now about why you kept 861 00:48:19,809 --> 00:48:21,855 those children locked away for so long? 862 00:48:21,986 --> 00:48:23,683 - No comment. 863 00:48:23,813 --> 00:48:24,814 - Why not? 864 00:48:24,945 --> 00:48:25,728 - They weren't locked away. 865 00:48:25,859 --> 00:48:26,947 - They weren't locked away. 866 00:48:27,034 --> 00:48:27,556 - They weren't locked away? 867 00:48:27,687 --> 00:48:28,993 - No, they weren't. 868 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:30,385 - No, excuse me. 869 00:48:30,516 --> 00:48:31,299 - Can you explain to me how you treated 870 00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:32,605 the children like you did? 871 00:48:32,692 --> 00:48:33,432 And Bill, would you like to give explanations 872 00:48:33,562 --> 00:48:34,868 as to your involvement 873 00:48:34,999 --> 00:48:36,106 in why the children were locked away? 874 00:48:36,130 --> 00:48:37,368 - I've got nothing to say to you. 875 00:48:37,392 --> 00:48:39,109 - You locked up, and you stole the children. 876 00:48:39,133 --> 00:48:40,482 - Stole? 877 00:48:40,613 --> 00:48:41,633 - You stole them from sect members? 878 00:48:41,657 --> 00:48:42,876 - Excuse me 879 00:48:43,007 --> 00:48:43,833 - Got doctors to organise the adoptions. 880 00:48:43,964 --> 00:48:44,530 - I'll just go and phone the police 881 00:48:44,660 --> 00:48:46,053 - Excuse me. 882 00:48:46,140 --> 00:48:47,813 - But why won't you give us - excuse me get with... 883 00:48:47,837 --> 00:48:50,014 - Excuse me.. But why won't you 884 00:48:51,841 --> 00:48:52,407 We have been advised 885 00:48:52,538 --> 00:48:53,974 to say nothing. 886 00:48:54,105 --> 00:48:55,821 You have no right to be asking me those things. 887 00:48:55,845 --> 00:48:57,345 - Do you think you have spiritual powers? 888 00:48:57,369 --> 00:48:59,066 - I don't think, I have spiritual powers. 889 00:49:00,981 --> 00:49:02,872 - We had several defamation cases brought against 890 00:49:02,896 --> 00:49:05,116 us by different members of the sect, not Anne! 891 00:49:05,246 --> 00:49:06,856 Anne doesn't ever do her own dirty work. 892 00:49:08,771 --> 00:49:10,382 A long period of time where, 893 00:49:10,469 --> 00:49:13,124 I'd be lucky to get a night's sleep without the phone going 894 00:49:13,254 --> 00:49:15,778 through the night, hang up calls, hang up calls. 895 00:49:15,909 --> 00:49:17,911 Just harassment campaign. 896 00:49:19,913 --> 00:49:21,021 - Marie had of course, the private wallet of the media 897 00:49:21,045 --> 00:49:25,397 empire. I worked within the bureaucracy. 898 00:49:25,527 --> 00:49:27,355 You've actually got to convince your bosses. 899 00:49:27,486 --> 00:49:29,792 That what you're talking about is actual - 900 00:49:29,923 --> 00:49:31,751 - Not bizarre - that it's a possibility. 901 00:49:45,895 --> 00:49:47,462 - I don't know exactly what happened, 902 00:49:47,549 --> 00:49:49,551 but there's no doubt that it had to have come 903 00:49:49,638 --> 00:49:51,727 from within their group. 904 00:49:53,251 --> 00:49:55,470 - The matter came to me, 905 00:49:55,601 --> 00:49:59,735 through anxious, and unhappy police 906 00:50:02,651 --> 00:50:04,175 On a confidential basis, I mean, 907 00:50:04,305 --> 00:50:08,918 I would never, even to this day, say who it was. 908 00:50:11,269 --> 00:50:14,141 It was one policeman, who used me, 909 00:50:15,534 --> 00:50:17,275 to say what needed to be said. 910 00:50:20,365 --> 00:50:21,516 - The matters being investigated, 911 00:50:21,540 --> 00:50:23,324 are most serious. 912 00:50:23,411 --> 00:50:25,544 Shots, are being filed through windows. 913 00:50:25,674 --> 00:50:27,372 Car tyres are being slashed. 914 00:50:27,502 --> 00:50:28,938 There are death threats. 915 00:50:29,026 --> 00:50:30,636 Not one charge has been laid, 916 00:50:30,723 --> 00:50:32,420 because the squad concerned, 917 00:50:32,551 --> 00:50:35,206 is not able to obtain permission to travel interstate, 918 00:50:35,336 --> 00:50:36,990 to conduct interviews. 919 00:50:37,121 --> 00:50:39,340 The police are saying, "For God's sake, 920 00:50:39,471 --> 00:50:41,473 give us the resources to do the job. 921 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,040 Let us get on with the job." 922 00:50:44,693 --> 00:50:45,999 - Around that point, 923 00:50:46,130 --> 00:50:47,827 there was quite a deal of publicity. 924 00:50:49,046 --> 00:50:52,092 I think that became very embarrassing to government. 925 00:50:52,223 --> 00:50:54,964 And, strangely enough, all of a sudden we got, 926 00:50:55,052 --> 00:50:57,663 more resources. 927 00:50:57,793 --> 00:51:00,796 Computers, and analysts to assist in 928 00:51:00,927 --> 00:51:02,581 getting together all this information 929 00:51:02,711 --> 00:51:04,974 that went back for so long. 930 00:51:07,977 --> 00:51:08,761 } Today in Melbourne, 931 00:51:08,848 --> 00:51:10,632 19 year old Roland Webb, 932 00:51:10,763 --> 00:51:12,678 was charged with threatening to kill 933 00:51:12,808 --> 00:51:16,203 investigating police, and reporter Marie Mohr. 934 00:51:16,334 --> 00:51:18,075 - The story is that, one of the police 935 00:51:18,205 --> 00:51:19,859 that rioted Lake Eildon 936 00:51:19,946 --> 00:51:22,862 when I took the kids, hit Mom. 937 00:51:22,992 --> 00:51:25,343 You don't stuff with me and my family. 938 00:51:25,473 --> 00:51:27,301 } Have you got any reason why 939 00:51:27,432 --> 00:51:28,911 you made these allegations? 940 00:51:29,042 --> 00:51:32,045 } All I wanted to do was just to leave me, 941 00:51:32,176 --> 00:51:34,047 and The Family-alone. 942 00:51:34,178 --> 00:51:35,831 Do you have the right to whatever religion 943 00:51:35,918 --> 00:51:36,745 you want to be in? 944 00:51:36,876 --> 00:51:38,138 - Is that correct? 945 00:51:38,269 --> 00:51:39,618 } Go on. 946 00:51:39,748 --> 00:51:40,575 } Tell me, is that correct? 947 00:51:40,706 --> 00:51:43,143 } Roland, I don't know. 948 00:51:43,274 --> 00:51:45,165 } You should know 'cause you're a pig. 949 00:51:45,189 --> 00:51:47,843 - Sometimes I don't know when to shut my mouth. 950 00:51:50,063 --> 00:51:52,196 This mouth has got me into trouble sometimes. 951 00:51:54,198 --> 00:51:57,114 and like you, I don't fear authority. 952 00:51:57,244 --> 00:52:00,900 - Well, I stand by my parents, and their followers. 953 00:52:01,030 --> 00:52:02,945 It's a free world. 954 00:52:03,076 --> 00:52:04,904 I got to follow them every inch of the way. 955 00:52:04,991 --> 00:52:07,646 - Uncle Bill, he was tickled pink. 956 00:52:07,776 --> 00:52:10,170 Couldn't stop talking how, I was the only person 957 00:52:10,301 --> 00:52:11,606 that stood up for The Family. 958 00:52:13,782 --> 00:52:17,525 So much so that he promised me $50,000 in his will, 959 00:52:19,484 --> 00:52:21,094 for that very act. 960 00:52:26,882 --> 00:52:29,320 - I know at the time, many of my friends outside work, 961 00:52:29,407 --> 00:52:31,365 were really worried about my state of health. 962 00:52:32,845 --> 00:52:34,934 It's not a nine to five job. 963 00:52:35,064 --> 00:52:36,457 You're mind continues to tick. 964 00:52:38,024 --> 00:52:39,852 What's the next step I'm going to do? 965 00:52:39,982 --> 00:52:40,853 How's that witness going, 966 00:52:40,983 --> 00:52:42,143 that I have just interviewed? 967 00:52:43,943 --> 00:52:45,138 You're dealing with people that have gone through 968 00:52:45,162 --> 00:52:48,165 enormous emotional trauma. 969 00:52:48,295 --> 00:52:50,558 And so, when you're taking their strong, 970 00:52:50,689 --> 00:52:52,343 and horrendous statements, 971 00:52:52,473 --> 00:52:53,648 it's pretty taxing work. 972 00:52:55,955 --> 00:52:57,913 And there were times during the task force where, 973 00:52:58,044 --> 00:52:59,741 you dealt with senior people, 974 00:52:59,872 --> 00:53:03,919 and they just didn't understand the impact it was having. 975 00:53:04,050 --> 00:53:05,650 It was a culture in those days, you know, 976 00:53:06,357 --> 00:53:10,665 "Oh you're a detective. Don't be bloody weak just move on". 977 00:53:11,362 --> 00:53:12,948 - I can remember one policeman saying to me, 978 00:53:12,972 --> 00:53:14,843 he wanted to see me. 979 00:53:14,974 --> 00:53:16,715 He's a big tough cop. 980 00:53:16,845 --> 00:53:18,934 We went into private room. 981 00:53:19,065 --> 00:53:21,023 He just looked me in the eye, and he said, 982 00:53:21,154 --> 00:53:23,635 "What happened to those kids is giving me nightmares." 983 00:53:30,119 --> 00:53:31,991 - Two of the members needed their own 984 00:53:32,121 --> 00:53:35,864 psychological treatment, and left the task force. 985 00:53:44,003 --> 00:53:45,483 It was frustrating. 986 00:53:45,613 --> 00:53:48,529 And, it was a bit depressing as well. 987 00:53:48,616 --> 00:53:53,186 Just to actually have that conflict if you like... 988 00:53:53,317 --> 00:53:53,752 being close to those great young kids .. 989 00:53:53,839 --> 00:53:55,057 And then not being 990 00:53:55,188 --> 00:53:57,669 able to do the absolute best for them. 991 00:54:06,243 --> 00:54:08,723 It should have been a royal commission. 992 00:54:08,854 --> 00:54:10,725 For the benefit of those children, 993 00:54:10,856 --> 00:54:13,119 and the many, many, people who are so adversely 994 00:54:13,206 --> 00:54:14,642 affected by this group. 995 00:54:18,429 --> 00:54:21,562 The only thing that you can do is lead by example, 996 00:54:21,693 --> 00:54:23,564 and keep focused. 997 00:54:26,437 --> 00:54:29,135 - We started then to piece together all the evidence 998 00:54:29,266 --> 00:54:32,051 we had, where the evidence was missing, and what 999 00:54:32,138 --> 00:54:34,488 we needed to do. 1000 00:54:34,619 --> 00:54:37,317 And where was the strongest case, 1001 00:54:37,404 --> 00:54:39,145 that we could find, 1002 00:54:39,276 --> 00:54:43,367 in a short period of time, against Anne and Bill. 1003 00:54:45,238 --> 00:54:48,285 We gave each alleged offender a colour, 1004 00:54:48,415 --> 00:54:50,417 each series of events a number, 1005 00:54:50,548 --> 00:54:52,593 and each victim, a letter of the alphabet. 1006 00:54:55,466 --> 00:54:57,163 I was absolutely totally obsessed, 1007 00:54:57,294 --> 00:54:58,730 and others on the team were as well. 1008 00:55:00,601 --> 00:55:02,821 We were getting pressured to wrap it up, 1009 00:55:02,951 --> 00:55:04,126 but we kept on working. 1010 00:55:07,260 --> 00:55:09,306 Then came the breakthrough. 1011 00:55:14,659 --> 00:55:16,922 The key to the activities of the cult, 1012 00:55:17,052 --> 00:55:19,141 laid in the brain of Peter Kibby. 1013 00:55:19,272 --> 00:55:22,362 He broke the code of silence, within that sect. 1014 00:55:22,493 --> 00:55:23,842 We just have to get Anne, 1015 00:55:23,972 --> 00:55:25,713 and get Bill back to Australia. 1016 00:55:25,844 --> 00:55:27,846 - This was a mission for him. 1017 00:55:27,976 --> 00:55:31,197 And he was determined to write a very horrible wrong 1018 00:55:32,590 --> 00:55:33,915 } Anne Hamilton Byrne and her husband William, 1019 00:55:33,939 --> 00:55:36,028 were arrested at their home in upstate New York. 1020 00:55:36,158 --> 00:55:38,078 } This morning, Victorian police had 1021 00:55:38,117 --> 00:55:41,338 Anne and William Hamilton Byrne back on Australian soil. 1022 00:55:41,468 --> 00:55:44,253 - When she was extradited back, it was all mad chaos. 1023 00:55:44,341 --> 00:55:45,646 I mean, I loved her to bits. 1024 00:55:45,777 --> 00:55:47,909 But jeez, she was a bloody trouble maker. 1025 00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:49,191 } We are winning through, 1026 00:55:49,215 --> 00:55:51,217 by the power of the Holy spirit. 1027 00:55:51,348 --> 00:55:53,959 This is the Lord God's battle. 1028 00:55:54,089 --> 00:55:56,962 - Whilst a large part of me didn't want to see her suffer. 1029 00:55:57,092 --> 00:55:58,964 I still wanted there to be justice. 1030 00:55:59,094 --> 00:56:00,094 - This is it. 1031 00:56:00,182 --> 00:56:02,184 This is the day of judgment. 1032 00:56:02,315 --> 00:56:04,012 Were we going to get an outcome, 1033 00:56:04,143 --> 00:56:07,146 that was going to be the right outcome? 1034 00:56:07,233 --> 00:56:09,844 >>>>oakislandtk<<<<< www.opensubtitles.org