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FRANZ SUCHOMEL
SS Unterscharführer
2
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Looking straight ahead,
brave and happy,
3
00:00:36,913 --> 00:00:41,626
on the world,
4
00:00:41,876 --> 00:00:46,172
the squads march to work.
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00:00:47,465 --> 00:00:51,803
All that matters to us now is Treblinka.
6
00:00:52,262 --> 00:00:56,099
It is our destiny.
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That is why we have become one
with Treblinka
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00:01:00,729 --> 00:01:04,733
in no time at all.
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We only know the word
of our Commander.
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We only know obedience and duty.
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We want to serve,
to go to serving
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until a bit of luck ends it all.
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Hooray!
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One more time, but louder.
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We laugh about it, but it's so sad.
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No one laughs.
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Don't be tender to me.
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You want History.
I give you history.
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Franz wrote the words.
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The melody came from Buchenwald.
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Camp Buchenwald,
where Franz was a guard.
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New Jews who arrived in the morning ...
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New "working Jews"?
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They were taught singing,
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and at evening all of them had to sing it.
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- Sing it again.
- Okay.
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It is very important. But loud!
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Looking straight ahead,
brave and happy,
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on the world,
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the squads march to work.
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All that matters to us now is Treblinka.
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It is our destiny.
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That is why we have become one
with Treblinka
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in no time at all.
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00:02:47,252 --> 00:02:51,631
We only know the word
of our Commander.
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We only know obedience and duty.
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We want to serve,
to go to serving
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until a bit of luck ends it all.
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Hooray!
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Satisfied?
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It is unique.
No Jew knows that today!
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How was it possible in Treblinka
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on peak days
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to "process" 18,000 people?
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18,000 is too high.
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- But I have read that the number in Decisions.
- Yes, yes.
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For "process" 18,000 people.
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To liquidate them.
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Mr. Lanzmann, that is an exaggeration.
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Trust me.
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How many?
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12,000 t015,000.
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But we had to spend half the night on it.
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00:05:17,527 --> 00:05:21,948
In January
the trains started arriving at 06:00
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- Always at 6:00?
- Not always.
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Often.
- Yes.
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- The schedules were irregular.
- Yes.
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Sometimes one came at 6:00,
then another at noon,
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maybe another late night.
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You see?
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Then a train arrived.
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I would like you to describe in detail
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the entire process.
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During the high season.
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The trains left Malkinia station,
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to Treblinka station.
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How many miles from Malkinia to Treblinka?
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About six miles.
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Treblinka was a village.
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A small village.
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Like a station,
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it gained greater importance
because of the transports of Jews.
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00:07:16,354 --> 00:07:21,526
There were at least 30 to 50 cars.
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00:07:27,198 --> 00:07:33,246
They were divided
in sections of 10 or 15,
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pushed into Treblinka Camp,
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and brought to the ramp.
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The other cars were waiting, loaded with people,
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in Treblinka station.
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The windows were closed
with barbed wire,
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so no one could get out.
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00:08:06,487 --> 00:08:10,783
On the roofs they were "Hellhounds,"
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the Ukrainians or the Latvians.
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The Latvians were the worst.
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On the ramp, for every car,
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that said
two Jews from Blue Squad
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to speed things up.
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They said,
"Get out, get out. Hurry, hurry!"
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There were also Ukrainians and Germans.
89
00:09:03,294 --> 00:09:05,004
How many Germans?
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3 to 5.
91
00:09:07,089 --> 00:09:10,218
- No more?
- No more. I can assure you.
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00:09:10,301 --> 00:09:12,428
How many Ukrainians?
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This one.
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10 Ukrainians, 5 Germans.
95
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2 ... 20 people from the blue Squad.
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Men from the Blue Squad
was here and here.
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They sent people inside.
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00:09:33,783 --> 00:09:36,118
The Red Squad was here.
99
00:09:37,787 --> 00:09:39,538
So the Red Squad was here.
100
00:09:39,622 --> 00:09:44,252
What was the Red Squad's job?
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00:09:45,127 --> 00:09:49,966
The clothes...
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to wear those clothes
taken from the men
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and of women
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up here immediately.
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00:10:06,691 --> 00:10:09,902
How much time passed
between emptying on the ramp
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and undressing,
107
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how many minutes?
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00:10:19,704 --> 00:10:22,915
For women,
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Let's say an hour in total.
110
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An hour, an hour and a half.
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A whole train took 2 hours.
- Yes.
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In 2 hours, it was all over.
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00:10:41,892 --> 00:10:46,105
Between the time of arrival
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and death.
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00:10:47,857 --> 00:10:52,278
That was all over in 2 hours?
- 2 hours, 2 1/2 hours, 3 hours.
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A whole train?
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Yes, a whole train.
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And for just one section,
for 10 cars, how long?
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I can't calculate that
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because the sections
came one after another,
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and people F ooded in constantly,
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understand?
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Usually the men wait
sat there, or there,
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was sent straight up via "funnel".
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The women were sent last.
126
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At the end.
127
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They had to go up there too,
and often waited here.
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5 ... at a time.
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50 people.
60 women with children.
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They had to wait here
, until there was room here.
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- Naked.
- Naked.
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00:11:53,089 --> 00:11:56,133
In summer and winter.
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Winter in Treblinka can be very cold.
134
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Well, in winter in December,
after Christmas anyway.
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But even before Christmas
it was cold as hell.
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Between 15 and minus 4.
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I know: First
it was cold as hell for us, too.
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We did not have suitable uniforms.
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It was cold for us too.
140
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But it was colder for...
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For the poor people.
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In "funnel".
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In the "funnel", it was very, very cold.
144
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Can you...
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describe this "funnel" exactly?
146
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What was it like?
How wide?
147
00:13:06,412 --> 00:13:09,039
How was it
for the people in this "funnel"?
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It was about 13 feet wide.
149
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As wide as this room.
150
00:13:19,049 --> 00:13:24,680
On each side were walls
this hill or this hill.
151
00:13:25,681 --> 00:13:29,393
- Walls?
- No, barbed wire.
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Woven into barbed wire
153
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were branches of pine trees.
154
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You understand?
155
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It was known as "Camou fl age."
156
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There was a "Camoufl age Squad" of 20 Jews.
157
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They brought in new branches every day.
158
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- From the forest?
- That's right.
159
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,964
So everything was screened.
160
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People couldn't see anything
to the left or right.
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Nothing.
162
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You couldn't see through it.
163
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Impossible.
164
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Here and here too.
165
00:14:15,981 --> 00:14:17,483
Also here.
166
00:14:21,820 --> 00:14:24,156
Impossible to see through.
167
00:14:27,117 --> 00:14:31,288
CAMP DAY
168
00:14:48,264 --> 00:14:49,765
Treblinka,
169
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how many people
was exterminated,
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wasn't big, was it?
171
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It wasn't great.
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1600 feet at widest point.
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It wasn't a rectangle,
more like a diamond-shaped one.
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You must realize
that here the earth was flat,
175
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and here it started to rise.
176
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And at the top of the slope
was the gas chamber.
177
00:15:41,567 --> 00:15:43,902
You had to climb up to it.
178
00:15:45,029 --> 00:15:48,574
That "funnel" was called
"Road to Heaven," right?
179
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The Jews called it "Ascension".
180
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Also "The Last Road."
181
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I only heard the two names for it.
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I need to see it.
183
00:16:07,593 --> 00:16:10,262
Those people go into the "funnel".
184
00:16:10,346 --> 00:16:11,972
So what happens?
185
00:16:13,724 --> 00:16:16,060
Are they completely naked?
- Completely naked.
186
00:16:16,143 --> 00:16:17,561
Here...
187
00:16:18,979 --> 00:16:22,733
stood two Ukrainian guards.
188
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Yes.
189
00:16:24,568 --> 00:16:27,154
Primarily for the men.
190
00:16:28,656 --> 00:16:31,492
If the men would not go in,
191
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they were beaten with whips.
192
00:16:38,540 --> 00:16:42,127
Also here. Even here.
- Oh yes.
193
00:16:42,211 --> 00:16:45,589
The men were "driven" together.
Not those women.
194
00:16:45,798 --> 00:16:47,424
Not those women.
195
00:16:47,508 --> 00:16:49,468
No, they weren't beaten.
196
00:16:49,551 --> 00:16:52,262
Why such humanity?
197
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I couldn't see it.
198
00:16:55,307 --> 00:16:57,476
I couldn't see it.
199
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Maybe they beat too.
200
00:16:59,603 --> 00:17:01,563
Why not?
201
00:17:03,774 --> 00:17:06,235
They were dying anyway.
202
00:17:06,777 --> 00:17:08,779
Why not?
203
00:17:12,408 --> 00:17:14,618
At the entrance to the gas chambers,
204
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undoubtedly.
205
00:17:20,124 --> 00:17:23,127
ABRAHAM PUMP
- ISRAEL -
206
00:37:00,636 --> 00:37:03,973
In a "funnel", the women had to wait.
207
00:37:05,975 --> 00:37:09,437
They heard about engines for the gas chamber.
208
00:37:12,481 --> 00:37:16,861
Maybe they also heard people
screaming and begging.
209
00:37:27,705 --> 00:37:31,667
As they expected,
"death-panic" oven / whetrned them.
210
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:42,053
"Death panic" makes people let go.
211
00:37:43,012 --> 00:37:47,391
They empty themselves,
from the front or from the back.
212
00:37:49,226 --> 00:37:54,190
So often,
where the women stood,
213
00:37:54,273 --> 00:38:00,154
there were 5 or 6 rows
of excrement.
214
00:38:01,989 --> 00:38:03,032
They stood?
215
00:38:03,115 --> 00:38:07,745
They could squat or do it standing.
216
00:38:07,828 --> 00:38:09,747
I couldn't see them doing that.
217
00:38:09,830 --> 00:38:13,042
I only saw feces.
218
00:38:13,125 --> 00:38:14,961
Only women?
219
00:38:15,044 --> 00:38:17,380
Not the men, it's only women.
220
00:38:18,047 --> 00:38:20,800
The men were chased through a "funnel".
221
00:38:20,883 --> 00:38:24,428
The women had to wait
222
00:38:27,056 --> 00:38:29,141
until a gas chamber was empty.
223
00:38:29,225 --> 00:38:34,355
- And the men?
- No, they were whipped first.
224
00:38:35,648 --> 00:38:36,649
You understand?
225
00:38:36,732 --> 00:38:38,484
The men were always first?
226
00:38:38,567 --> 00:38:41,070
Yes, they always went first.
227
00:38:41,779 --> 00:38:43,572
They didn't have to wait.
228
00:38:43,656 --> 00:38:47,451
They didn't have time to wait, no.
229
00:38:51,914 --> 00:38:53,666
And this "death panic" ...
230
00:38:53,749 --> 00:38:56,127
When this "death panic" sets in,
231
00:38:58,087 --> 00:39:00,172
you let go.
232
00:39:00,256 --> 00:39:06,512
It is well known when a person's terrified
and know that he is dying.
233
00:39:06,595 --> 00:39:09,181
It can happen in bed.
234
00:39:09,265 --> 00:39:12,309
My mother knelt by her bed.
235
00:39:13,769 --> 00:39:17,565
- Your mother?
- Yes. Then there was a big pile.
236
00:39:20,109 --> 00:39:21,360
It is a fact.
237
00:39:21,444 --> 00:39:23,529
It has been medicinal...
238
00:39:24,113 --> 00:39:26,282
proved.
239
00:39:27,324 --> 00:39:29,035
Since you wanted to know:
240
00:39:29,118 --> 00:39:33,205
As soon as they were unloaded,
241
00:39:33,664 --> 00:39:38,210
if they had been loaded
in Warsaw, or elsewhere,
242
00:39:38,294 --> 00:39:40,463
they had already been beaten.
243
00:39:41,797 --> 00:39:44,925
Beaten hard, worse than in Treblinka,
244
00:39:45,593 --> 00:39:47,428
I can assure you.
245
00:39:50,222 --> 00:39:52,933
So during the train journey,
246
00:39:53,017 --> 00:39:55,144
standing in cars,
247
00:39:55,227 --> 00:39:57,188
no toilets,
248
00:39:57,563 --> 00:40:00,858
nothing, hardly any water.
249
00:40:00,941 --> 00:40:02,568
peat
250
00:40:02,651 --> 00:40:06,530
So the doors open
, and it began again,
251
00:40:07,531 --> 00:40:10,159
"Brake, brake!"
252
00:40:11,827 --> 00:40:15,498
"Faster, faster!"
253
00:40:15,581 --> 00:40:20,544
I can't pronounce it:
I have dentures.
254
00:40:20,628 --> 00:40:21,670
It's Polish.
255
00:40:21,754 --> 00:40:24,507
"Brake" or "speed up".
256
00:40:24,590 --> 00:40:26,300
What does "brake" mean?
257
00:40:26,383 --> 00:40:29,762
It is a Ukrainian word.
It means "faster".
258
00:40:30,596 --> 00:40:35,935
Again the hunt...
a rain of whiplashes.
259
00:40:36,018 --> 00:40:38,395
SS man Kuttner's whip was this long.
260
00:40:38,854 --> 00:40:41,732
Women on the left, men on the right.
261
00:40:42,858 --> 00:40:45,736
And always more strokes.
262
00:40:46,195 --> 00:40:47,822
No respite?
263
00:40:47,905 --> 00:40:49,448
No.
264
00:40:49,532 --> 00:40:54,286
Get in there, strip. Hurry, hurry!
265
00:40:54,370 --> 00:40:58,082
- Always running.
- Always running.
266
00:40:59,583 --> 00:41:00,876
Run and scream.
267
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,463
That's how they graduated from.
268
00:41:04,547 --> 00:41:07,633
- It was that technique.
- Yes, the technique.
269
00:41:10,052 --> 00:41:14,849
You have to remember: it had to go quickly.
270
00:41:16,142 --> 00:41:20,563
And the blue Squad
also had the assignment
271
00:41:21,897 --> 00:41:25,484
of leading the sick and the old ...
272
00:41:26,152 --> 00:41:28,445
to "Infirmary,"
273
00:41:30,072 --> 00:41:34,910
so as not to delay the fl ow
of people to the gas chambers.
274
00:41:34,994 --> 00:41:39,039
Old people would have slowed it down.
275
00:41:42,126 --> 00:41:45,504
Allocation to the "infirmary"
276
00:41:46,130 --> 00:41:49,466
was decided by the Germans.
277
00:41:51,135 --> 00:41:54,430
The Jews in the Blue Squad
278
00:41:54,513 --> 00:41:59,018
only implemented the decision:
279
00:41:59,268 --> 00:42:02,730
leading people there,
280
00:42:02,813 --> 00:42:07,401
or carry them on stretchers.
281
00:42:10,029 --> 00:42:13,616
Old women, sick children,
282
00:42:13,699 --> 00:42:16,368
children whose mother was ill,
283
00:42:17,453 --> 00:42:19,997
or if the grandmother was very old,
284
00:42:20,456 --> 00:42:23,792
was sent with grandma
285
00:42:23,876 --> 00:42:27,713
because she didn't know
about the "infirmary."
286
00:42:28,631 --> 00:42:33,010
It had a white flag with a red cross.
287
00:42:35,971 --> 00:42:38,224
A passage led to it.
288
00:42:38,933 --> 00:42:42,269
Until they reached the end,
they saw nothing.
289
00:42:44,730 --> 00:42:47,650
Then they would see the dead in the grave.
290
00:42:51,820 --> 00:42:55,574
They were forced to strip,
291
00:42:57,743 --> 00:43:00,746
to sit on a sandbank,
292
00:43:02,331 --> 00:43:05,417
and was killed with a shot in the neck.
293
00:43:06,043 --> 00:43:09,421
They fell into the pit.
294
00:43:13,842 --> 00:43:17,596
There was always a fire in the pit.
295
00:43:19,014 --> 00:43:24,019
With garbage, paper and gasoline,
296
00:43:27,439 --> 00:43:30,359
people burn very well.
297
00:43:32,778 --> 00:43:36,365
RICHARD GLAZAR
- SWITZERLAND -
298
00:43:40,661 --> 00:43:43,956
The "emergency room" was a narrow site
299
00:43:44,540 --> 00:43:48,210
very close to the ramp
300
00:43:50,254 --> 00:43:54,633
to which the age was led.
301
00:43:55,134 --> 00:43:57,803
I had to do this too.
302
00:44:03,392 --> 00:44:08,397
This execution website was not covered,
303
00:44:09,064 --> 00:44:12,234
just an open place with a roof,
304
00:44:12,318 --> 00:44:15,487
but screened by a fence,
305
00:44:15,571 --> 00:44:18,115
so no one could see in.
306
00:44:23,078 --> 00:44:28,375
That way was a narrow passage,
307
00:44:31,337 --> 00:44:36,967
very short
but something similar to that "funnel".
308
00:44:38,177 --> 00:44:40,804
A kind of small labyrinth.
309
00:44:43,182 --> 00:44:46,352
In the middle of it, there was a grave.
310
00:44:48,645 --> 00:44:53,108
And to the left as you entered,
311
00:44:53,192 --> 00:44:55,736
there was a small stall,
312
00:44:55,819 --> 00:45:00,866
with a kind of wooden plank in it,
313
00:45:00,949 --> 00:45:03,410
preferably a springboard.
314
00:45:04,328 --> 00:45:09,416
If people were too weak to stand on it,
315
00:45:09,792 --> 00:45:14,630
they wanted to sit on it,
316
00:45:15,798 --> 00:45:17,424
and then,
317
00:45:17,841 --> 00:45:25,015
as they say went in Treblinka jargon,
318
00:45:25,891 --> 00:45:34,525
SS would you rent
319
00:45:35,609 --> 00:45:40,364
“Heal each one with a single pill”:
320
00:45:42,366 --> 00:45:44,660
a shot in the neck.
321
00:45:49,373 --> 00:45:52,918
During peak periods,
322
00:45:53,502 --> 00:45:55,129
that happened daily.
323
00:45:55,212 --> 00:46:00,884
These days, pit ...
324
00:46:01,510 --> 00:46:03,178
and that was the least
325
00:46:05,097 --> 00:46:08,851
10 to 12 feet deep...
326
00:46:08,934 --> 00:46:11,228
was full of corpses.
327
00:46:20,529 --> 00:46:24,700
There were also cases
328
00:46:24,908 --> 00:46:31,206
of children who
for some reason came alone
329
00:46:31,290 --> 00:46:35,711
or got separated from their parents.
330
00:46:36,128 --> 00:46:39,673
These children were suffering
to the "infirmary"
331
00:46:40,215 --> 00:46:42,426
and shot there.
332
00:46:51,393 --> 00:46:55,481
The "infirmary" was also for us,
333
00:46:55,564 --> 00:46:58,025
the Treblinka slaves,
334
00:46:59,067 --> 00:47:01,236
the last stop.
335
00:47:02,362 --> 00:47:04,615
Not the gas chamber.
336
00:47:05,991 --> 00:47:10,412
We always ended up in the “infirmary.”
337
00:47:19,129 --> 00:47:23,550
AUSCHWITZ TODAY
THE SORTING STATION
338
00:48:31,743 --> 00:48:34,538
RUDOLF VRBA
Survivor of Auschwitz
339
00:49:37,768 --> 00:49:40,854
THE OLD RAMP
340
00:50:15,639 --> 00:50:20,227
THE NEW RAMP BUILT IN EARLY 1944
341
00:52:10,754 --> 00:52:12,923
Before each gassing operation,
342
00:52:13,006 --> 00:52:17,260
the SS took stern precautions.
343
00:52:20,931 --> 00:52:25,101
The crematorium
was surrounded by SS men.
344
00:52:27,771 --> 00:52:32,651
Many SS men patrolled the court
345
00:52:33,819 --> 00:52:38,532
with dogs and machine-guns.
346
00:52:43,745 --> 00:52:49,042
To the right were the steps
347
00:52:50,627 --> 00:52:54,673
that led underground
to the “undressing room.”
348
00:53:11,940 --> 00:53:16,278
In Birkenau, there were 4 crematoria,
349
00:53:20,866 --> 00:53:25,579
Crematorium II, III and IV, V.
350
00:53:29,833 --> 00:53:34,254
Crematorium II was similar to III.
351
00:53:42,053 --> 00:53:44,097
In II and III,
352
00:53:44,306 --> 00:53:49,060
the “undressing room”
and the gas chambers were underground.
353
00:53:53,356 --> 00:53:56,026
A large “undressing room”
354
00:53:57,861 --> 00:54:01,281
of about 3000 square feet
355
00:54:23,261 --> 00:54:25,639
and a large gas chamber...
356
00:54:29,351 --> 00:54:31,603
where one could...
357
00:54:33,688 --> 00:54:40,028
gas up to 3000 people at a time.
358
00:54:51,873 --> 00:55:02,384
Crematorium I V and V
were of a different type
359
00:55:04,552 --> 00:55:08,473
in that they weren't located underground.
360
00:55:09,557 --> 00:55:12,352
Everything was at ground level.
361
00:55:14,104 --> 00:55:17,691
In IV and V,
there were 3 gas chambers
362
00:55:17,774 --> 00:55:19,818
with a total capacity
363
00:55:19,901 --> 00:55:24,614
of at most 1800 to 2000 people at a time.
364
00:55:26,783 --> 00:55:31,162
AUSCHWITZ MUSEUM
MODEL OF CREMATORIUMS II AND III
365
00:55:31,246 --> 00:55:35,625
Elevators hoisted bodies
to the ovens
366
00:55:43,591 --> 00:55:47,971
Crematorium II and III had 15 ovens each.
367
00:55:49,472 --> 00:55:53,018
Crematorium IV and V had 8 ovens each.
368
00:56:06,031 --> 00:56:09,159
As people reached the crematorium,
369
00:56:09,451 --> 00:56:12,078
they saw everything...
370
00:56:12,537 --> 00:56:15,373
this horribly violent scene.
371
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:21,421
The whole area was ringed with SS men.
372
00:56:22,005 --> 00:56:24,382
Dogs barked.
373
00:56:24,466 --> 00:56:26,843
Machine-guns.
374
00:56:29,846 --> 00:56:35,310
They all, mainly the Polish Jews,
had misgivings.
375
00:56:37,062 --> 00:56:42,734
They knew something was seriously amiss.
376
00:56:46,654 --> 00:56:53,620
But none of them
had the faintest of notions
377
00:56:53,703 --> 00:56:57,707
that in 3 or 4 hours
they'd be reduced to ashes.
378
00:57:04,756 --> 00:57:07,759
When they reached
the “undressing room,”
379
00:57:08,343 --> 00:57:10,428
they saw
380
00:57:11,096 --> 00:57:17,811
that it looked like
an International Information Center!
381
00:57:35,411 --> 00:57:39,791
On the walls were...
382
00:57:42,377 --> 00:57:43,920
hooks,
383
00:57:47,507 --> 00:57:50,343
and each hook had a number.
384
00:57:52,929 --> 00:57:56,224
Beneath the hooks were...
385
00:57:58,184 --> 00:58:00,562
wooden benches.
386
00:58:00,979 --> 00:58:06,693
So people could undress
“more comfortably,” it was said.
387
00:58:09,696 --> 00:58:13,491
And on the numerous pillars
388
00:58:14,951 --> 00:58:19,080
that held up
this underground “undressing room,”
389
00:58:19,998 --> 00:58:22,584
there were signs with slogans
390
00:58:23,626 --> 00:58:26,421
in several languages:
391
00:58:29,549 --> 00:58:31,926
“Clean is good!”
392
00:58:34,429 --> 00:58:36,931
“Lice can kill!”
393
00:58:38,516 --> 00:58:40,768
“Wash yourself!”
394
00:58:42,770 --> 00:58:45,565
“To the disinfection area.”
395
00:58:50,695 --> 00:58:53,615
All those signs
396
00:58:54,365 --> 00:58:57,118
were only there
397
00:58:58,536 --> 00:59:03,541
to lure people into the gas chambers
already undressed.
398
00:59:25,188 --> 00:59:28,524
And to the left,
399
00:59:29,234 --> 00:59:33,988
at a fight-angle,
was the gas chamber
400
00:59:38,826 --> 00:59:44,165
with its massive door.
401
01:00:03,726 --> 01:00:08,106
CREMATORIUM III:
THE UNDRESSING ROOM
402
01:00:41,431 --> 01:00:45,852
THE GAS CHAMBER
403
01:00:59,157 --> 01:01:06,414
In Crematoria II and III,
Zyklon gas crystals were poured in
404
01:01:07,206 --> 01:01:10,376
by a so-called
“SS disinfection squad,”
405
01:01:11,210 --> 01:01:13,588
through the ceiling,
406
01:01:22,263 --> 01:01:28,227
and in Crematoria IV and V
through side openings.
407
01:01:33,775 --> 01:01:37,779
With 5 or 6 canisters of gas,
408
01:01:39,489 --> 01:01:42,450
they could kill around 2000 people.
409
01:01:51,209 --> 01:01:54,420
This so-called “disinfection squad”
410
01:01:56,005 --> 01:02:00,301
arrived in a truck
marked with a red cross
411
01:02:02,470 --> 01:02:05,807
and escorted people along
412
01:02:06,641 --> 01:02:13,272
to make them believe
they were being led to take a bath.
413
01:02:16,692 --> 01:02:21,030
But the red cross was only a mark
414
01:02:21,489 --> 01:02:26,035
to hide the canisters of Zyklon gas
and the hammers to open them.
415
01:02:32,542 --> 01:02:38,923
The gas took about
10 to 15 minutes to kill.
416
01:02:47,974 --> 01:02:50,518
The most horrible thing was,
417
01:02:52,395 --> 01:02:55,356
once the doors of the gas chambers
were opened...
418
01:02:56,023 --> 01:03:01,195
the unbearable sight.
419
01:03:06,159 --> 01:03:10,538
People were packed together like basalt,
420
01:03:12,290 --> 01:03:14,542
like blocks of stone.
421
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:22,300
How they tumbled out of the gas chamber!
422
01:03:26,554 --> 01:03:28,973
I saw that several times.
423
01:03:31,350 --> 01:03:35,563
That was the toughest thing to take.
424
01:03:37,148 --> 01:03:40,818
You could never get used to that.
425
01:03:43,446 --> 01:03:45,740
It was impossible.
426
01:03:46,157 --> 01:03:49,577
CREMATORIUM IV
427
01:03:52,580 --> 01:03:54,165
Impossible.
428
01:03:55,750 --> 01:03:56,751
Yes.
429
01:03:56,834 --> 01:04:02,840
You see, once the gas was poured in,
it worked like this:
430
01:04:02,924 --> 01:04:06,511
it rose from the ground upwards.
431
01:04:07,094 --> 01:04:11,474
And in the terrible struggle
that followed,
432
01:04:11,974 --> 01:04:15,603
because it was a struggle.
433
01:04:18,439 --> 01:04:22,652
The lights were switched off
in the gas chambers.
434
01:04:23,444 --> 01:04:26,614
It was dark, no one could see.
435
01:04:26,822 --> 01:04:32,495
So the strongest people
tried to climb higher.
436
01:04:32,578 --> 01:04:35,331
Because they probably realized
437
01:04:35,957 --> 01:04:38,876
that the higher they got,
438
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:41,921
the more air there was.
439
01:04:42,296 --> 01:04:44,924
They could breathe better.
440
01:04:46,092 --> 01:04:49,053
That caused the struggle.
441
01:04:49,136 --> 01:04:53,307
Secondly, most people
tried to push their way to the door.
442
01:04:53,933 --> 01:04:55,643
It was psychological:
443
01:04:55,726 --> 01:04:57,728
They knew where the door was,
444
01:04:57,812 --> 01:05:00,523
so maybe they could force their way.
445
01:05:00,606 --> 01:05:02,483
It was instinctive,
446
01:05:02,817 --> 01:05:08,656
a death struggle.
447
01:05:08,739 --> 01:05:11,826
Which is why children...
448
01:05:11,909 --> 01:05:14,579
and weaker people,
and the aged,
449
01:05:14,662 --> 01:05:16,497
always wound up at the bottom.
450
01:05:16,581 --> 01:05:19,667
The strongest were on top.
451
01:05:20,793 --> 01:05:26,924
Because in the death struggle...
452
01:05:28,593 --> 01:05:33,889
a father didn't realize his son lay...
453
01:05:35,349 --> 01:05:36,851
beneath him.
454
01:05:37,602 --> 01:05:40,354
And when the doors were opened?
455
01:05:40,438 --> 01:05:42,481
They fell out.
456
01:05:42,565 --> 01:05:46,193
People fell out like blocks of stone,
457
01:05:46,277 --> 01:05:50,156
like rocks falling out of a truck.
458
01:05:50,865 --> 01:05:54,702
But near the Zyklon gas, there was a void.
459
01:05:54,785 --> 01:05:59,081
There was no one
where the gas crystals went in.
460
01:05:59,165 --> 01:06:01,626
An empty space.
461
01:06:01,709 --> 01:06:07,089
Probably the victims realized that
462
01:06:08,549 --> 01:06:12,762
the gas worked strongest there.
463
01:06:17,975 --> 01:06:19,644
And the people were...?
464
01:06:19,727 --> 01:06:23,564
The people were battered.
465
01:06:24,732 --> 01:06:32,239
They struggled and fought
in the darkness.
466
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,411
They were covered in excrement,
467
01:06:39,580 --> 01:06:41,082
in blood,
468
01:06:43,042 --> 01:06:45,419
from ears and noses.
469
01:06:49,423 --> 01:06:52,843
One also sometimes saw
470
01:06:52,927 --> 01:06:56,555
that the people lying on the ground,
471
01:06:56,639 --> 01:07:01,644
because of the pressure of the others,
472
01:07:01,727 --> 01:07:07,233
were unrecognizable.
473
01:07:07,316 --> 01:07:11,779
Children had their skulls crushed.
474
01:07:14,073 --> 01:07:15,825
- Yes.
- What?
475
01:07:17,034 --> 01:07:18,536
It was awful.
476
01:07:18,619 --> 01:07:23,666
Vomit.
477
01:07:25,626 --> 01:07:29,797
Blood from the ears and noses.
478
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:34,260
Probably even menstrual fluid...
sure of it.
479
01:07:34,802 --> 01:07:38,055
There was everything
in that struggle for life,
480
01:07:38,139 --> 01:07:40,141
that death struggle.
481
01:07:41,100 --> 01:07:45,187
It was terrible to see.
That was the toughest part.
482
01:07:46,897 --> 01:07:50,151
FILIP MULLER, Czech Jew
483
01:07:50,234 --> 01:07:56,782
survivor of the 5 liquidations
of the Auschwitz “special detail”
484
01:08:25,853 --> 01:08:29,190
It was pointless
485
01:08:29,857 --> 01:08:33,194
to tell the truth to anyone
486
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:39,200
who crossed the threshold
of the crematorium.
487
01:08:43,329 --> 01:08:46,707
You couldn't save anyone there.
488
01:08:48,793 --> 01:08:52,588
It was impossible to save people.
489
01:09:03,015 --> 01:09:05,142
One day, in 1943,
490
01:09:05,226 --> 01:09:09,605
when I was already in Crematorium V,
491
01:09:11,982 --> 01:09:15,069
a train from Bialystok arrived.
492
01:09:18,239 --> 01:09:21,534
A prisoner on the “special detail”
493
01:09:21,909 --> 01:09:26,747
saw a woman in the “undressing room,”
494
01:09:28,582 --> 01:09:31,418
who was the wife of a friend of his.
495
01:09:35,589 --> 01:09:38,592
He came right out and told her,
496
01:09:39,593 --> 01:09:41,762
“You are going to be exterminated.
497
01:09:43,097 --> 01:09:46,100
In 3 hours, you'll be ashes.”
498
01:09:54,608 --> 01:09:58,946
The woman believed him
because she knew him.
499
01:10:05,786 --> 01:10:08,706
She ran all over
500
01:10:08,789 --> 01:10:11,625
and warned the other women.
501
01:10:13,586 --> 01:10:16,088
“We're going to be killed.
502
01:10:16,755 --> 01:10:19,133
We're going to be gassed.”
503
01:10:22,136 --> 01:10:27,182
Mothers carrying their children
on their shoulders
504
01:10:27,266 --> 01:10:29,476
didn't want to hear that.
505
01:10:30,394 --> 01:10:33,147
They decided the woman was crazy.
506
01:10:35,566 --> 01:10:38,027
They chased her away.
507
01:10:42,156 --> 01:10:44,825
So she went to the men.
508
01:10:46,493 --> 01:10:48,829
To no avail.
509
01:10:50,331 --> 01:10:52,374
Not that they didn't believe her.
510
01:10:52,458 --> 01:10:55,920
They'd heard rumors
in the Bialystok ghetto,
511
01:10:56,003 --> 01:10:57,796
or in Grodno, and elsewhere.
512
01:10:58,756 --> 01:11:01,842
But who wanted to hear that!
513
01:11:08,349 --> 01:11:12,186
When she saw that no one would listen,
514
01:11:12,853 --> 01:11:16,357
she scratched her whole face.
515
01:11:17,608 --> 01:11:20,277
Out of despair. In shock.
516
01:11:20,527 --> 01:11:23,697
And she started to scream.
517
01:11:28,035 --> 01:11:29,870
So what happened?
518
01:11:30,412 --> 01:11:34,291
Everyone was gassed.
The woman was held back.
519
01:11:36,835 --> 01:11:41,215
We had to line up in front of the oven.
520
01:11:43,133 --> 01:11:47,137
First they tortured her horribly,
521
01:11:47,221 --> 01:11:49,556
because she wouldn't betray him.
522
01:11:52,351 --> 01:11:56,563
In the end, she pointed to him.
523
01:11:59,733 --> 01:12:05,072
He was taken out of the line
and thrown alive into the oven.
524
01:12:06,407 --> 01:12:10,744
We were told,
“Whoever says anything will end like that!”
525
01:12:16,583 --> 01:12:21,088
We, in the “special detail,”
kept trying to figure out
526
01:12:21,672 --> 01:12:24,883
if there was a way
527
01:12:25,300 --> 01:12:29,471
we could tell people
528
01:12:30,973 --> 01:12:33,851
to inform them.
529
01:12:35,102 --> 01:12:39,023
But our experience,
530
01:12:39,106 --> 01:12:43,610
in several instances
where we were able to tell people,
531
01:12:44,445 --> 01:12:47,281
showed that it was of no use.
532
01:12:47,364 --> 01:12:52,036
That it made their last moments
even harder to bear.
533
01:12:52,119 --> 01:12:56,623
At most, we thought it might help...
534
01:12:56,707 --> 01:13:00,586
Jews from Poland,
535
01:13:00,669 --> 01:13:05,132
or Jews from Theresienstadt
(the Czech family camp),
536
01:13:05,215 --> 01:13:09,136
who'd already spent 6 months in Birkenau,
537
01:13:09,636 --> 01:13:13,390
we thought it might have been
of use in such cases
538
01:13:13,474 --> 01:13:15,476
to tell people.
539
01:13:15,893 --> 01:13:19,897
But imagine what it was like
in other cases:
540
01:13:20,481 --> 01:13:25,069
Jews from Greece,
from Hungary, from Corfu
541
01:13:25,152 --> 01:13:29,239
who'd been traveling for 10 or 12 days,
542
01:13:29,323 --> 01:13:30,908
starving,
543
01:13:31,825 --> 01:13:36,121
without water for days, dying of thirst,
544
01:13:36,205 --> 01:13:39,083
they were half-crazed when they arrived.
545
01:13:39,416 --> 01:13:41,752
They were dealt with differently.
546
01:13:41,835 --> 01:13:44,379
They were only told,
547
01:13:44,463 --> 01:13:50,010
“Get undressed,
you'll soon get a mug of tea.”
548
01:13:51,678 --> 01:13:54,807
These people were in such a state
549
01:13:54,890 --> 01:14:00,354
because they'd been traveling so long,
550
01:14:00,437 --> 01:14:04,566
that their only thought
551
01:14:05,109 --> 01:14:08,612
was to quench their thirst.
552
01:14:08,695 --> 01:14:11,990
And the SS executioners
knew that very well.
553
01:14:12,074 --> 01:14:16,328
It was all preprogrammed,
554
01:14:19,039 --> 01:14:23,127
a calculated part
of the extermination process
555
01:14:23,210 --> 01:14:26,088
that if people were so weak
556
01:14:26,171 --> 01:14:28,674
and weren't given something to drink,
557
01:14:28,757 --> 01:14:32,219
they'd rush into the gas chamber.
558
01:14:32,302 --> 01:14:35,597
But in fact,
559
01:14:35,681 --> 01:14:41,937
all these people were already
being exterminated
560
01:14:42,020 --> 01:14:43,730
before reaching the gas chambers.
561
01:14:43,814 --> 01:14:46,066
Think of the children.
562
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,653
They begged their mothers, screaming,
563
01:14:49,736 --> 01:14:52,698
“Mother, please, water, water!”
564
01:14:53,657 --> 01:14:57,744
The adults, too,
who'd spent days without water,
565
01:14:58,370 --> 01:15:01,123
had the same obsession.
566
01:15:01,206 --> 01:15:04,877
Informing those people
was quite pointless.
567
01:15:14,261 --> 01:15:18,348
CORFU
568
01:17:47,497 --> 01:17:50,375
- Grab it from there.
- Yes, grab it from there.
569
01:17:50,459 --> 01:17:52,044
- Put it right there.
- Okay.
570
01:17:52,127 --> 01:17:53,879
- Right there.
- Okay, yes.
571
01:17:53,962 --> 01:17:56,089
Okay, be careful. Wait.
572
01:17:56,506 --> 01:17:59,217
You'll come and pick it up later?
- Yes.
573
01:17:59,301 --> 01:18:01,303
- Put it down.
- In a second.
574
01:18:01,386 --> 01:18:03,805
Hold on a second.
575
01:18:03,889 --> 01:18:05,682
Just hold on a second.
576
01:18:06,266 --> 01:18:08,602
Maybe if you removed this?
577
01:18:08,685 --> 01:18:11,521
Got it? That's how you'll load it.
578
01:18:11,605 --> 01:18:13,857
Come and pick it up next week.
579
01:18:13,940 --> 01:18:16,443
Understood?
Now move the cart away from here.
580
01:18:16,526 --> 01:18:18,236
Move the cart.
581
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:20,947
Yes, let's make some space.
582
01:18:21,281 --> 01:18:23,200
So you're an actor now.
583
01:18:26,286 --> 01:18:27,287
Let's finish this.
584
01:18:57,734 --> 01:19:01,780
MOSHE MORDO
585
01:19:22,217 --> 01:19:24,511
These are my nephews.
586
01:19:24,594 --> 01:19:27,639
They burned them in Birkenau.
587
01:19:30,851 --> 01:19:33,770
Two of my brother's kids.
588
01:19:33,854 --> 01:19:37,357
They took them
to the crematorium with their mom.
589
01:19:37,983 --> 01:19:40,527
They were all burned in Birkenau.
590
01:19:51,705 --> 01:19:53,665
My brother.
591
01:19:55,375 --> 01:19:58,295
He was sick,
592
01:19:58,378 --> 01:20:03,508
and they put him in the oven,
in the crematorium, and burned him.
593
01:20:05,051 --> 01:20:07,471
That was at Birkenau.
594
01:20:11,933 --> 01:20:15,520
The oldest boy was 17,
595
01:20:16,438 --> 01:20:18,857
the second was 15.
596
01:20:20,275 --> 01:20:23,695
Two more kids “kaput” with their mom.
597
01:20:26,698 --> 01:20:29,409
Yes, 4 children I lost.
598
01:20:39,044 --> 01:20:40,921
Your father too?
599
01:20:42,631 --> 01:20:44,591
My dad, him too.
600
01:20:45,133 --> 01:20:46,801
How old was your father?
601
01:20:46,885 --> 01:20:53,016
Dad was 85 years old.
602
01:20:53,517 --> 01:20:56,478
85 years old and he died in Auschwitz.
603
01:20:56,561 --> 01:20:59,356
Auschwitz, that's right.
604
01:21:00,649 --> 01:21:04,778
85 and he died at Birkenau.
605
01:21:05,987 --> 01:21:07,614
My father.
606
01:21:07,989 --> 01:21:10,367
Your father made the whole trip.
607
01:21:19,251 --> 01:21:21,211
The whole family died.
608
01:21:21,294 --> 01:21:24,631
First the gas chamber,
then the crematorium.
609
01:23:36,596 --> 01:23:40,600
On Friday morning, June 9, 1944,
610
01:23:40,684 --> 01:23:46,231
members of the Corfu Jewish
community came, very frightened,
611
01:23:46,314 --> 01:23:49,025
and reported to the Germans.
612
01:23:49,109 --> 01:23:54,197
This square was full
of Gestapo men and police,
613
01:23:54,781 --> 01:23:56,366
and we went forward.
614
01:23:56,449 --> 01:24:00,787
There were even traitors,
the Recanati brothers, Athens Jews.
615
01:24:00,870 --> 01:24:07,127
After the war they were sentenced
to life imprisonment.
616
01:24:07,210 --> 01:24:10,296
But they're already free.
617
01:24:14,718 --> 01:24:18,388
We were ordered to go forward.
618
01:24:18,471 --> 01:24:21,891
- By the street?
- Yes, by this street.
619
01:24:21,975 --> 01:24:26,896
- How many of you were there?
- Exactly 1,650.
620
01:24:31,151 --> 01:24:34,070
- Quite a crowd?
- A lot of people.
621
01:24:34,154 --> 01:24:37,115
Christians stopped there.
622
01:24:37,741 --> 01:24:39,492
Christians, that's right.
And they saw.
623
01:24:39,576 --> 01:24:41,536
Where were the Christians?
624
01:24:43,246 --> 01:24:45,582
- At the street corner?
- Yes.
625
01:24:46,124 --> 01:24:47,625
And on the balconies.
626
01:24:48,877 --> 01:24:51,379
After we gathered here,
627
01:24:51,463 --> 01:24:55,425
Gestapo men with machine-guns
came up behind us.
628
01:24:56,676 --> 01:24:58,303
What time was it?
629
01:24:59,012 --> 01:25:01,389
- It was 6 A.M.
- In the morning.
630
01:25:01,473 --> 01:25:03,808
- A fine day?
- Yes, the day was fine.
631
01:25:05,810 --> 01:25:07,353
6 o'clock in the morning.
632
01:25:08,021 --> 01:25:10,231
1,600.
That's a lot of people in the street.
633
01:25:10,315 --> 01:25:12,150
People gathered.
634
01:25:12,233 --> 01:25:16,946
The Christians heard the Jews
were being rounded up.
635
01:25:17,030 --> 01:25:20,366
- Why'd they come?
- To see the show.
636
01:25:25,371 --> 01:25:28,708
Let's hope it never happens again.
637
01:25:29,834 --> 01:25:32,420
- Were you scared?
- Very scared.
638
01:25:32,504 --> 01:25:35,548
There were young people,
639
01:25:35,632 --> 01:25:38,551
sick people, little children,
640
01:25:38,635 --> 01:25:41,805
the old, the crazy, and so on.
641
01:25:46,893 --> 01:25:50,688
When we saw
they'd even brought the insane,
642
01:25:50,772 --> 01:25:54,400
even the sick from the hospital,
643
01:25:54,484 --> 01:25:57,821
we were frightened
644
01:25:57,904 --> 01:26:00,990
for the survival
of the whole community.
645
01:26:03,785 --> 01:26:05,328
What were you told?
646
01:26:05,411 --> 01:26:08,498
That we were
to appear here at the fort
647
01:26:08,581 --> 01:26:11,417
to be taken to work in Germany.
648
01:26:12,794 --> 01:26:14,754
- Poland.
- Poland, that's right.
649
01:26:16,631 --> 01:26:22,679
The Germans had put up
a proclamation on all the walls in Corfu.
650
01:26:23,471 --> 01:26:26,808
It said all Jews had to report.
651
01:26:26,891 --> 01:26:29,018
And once we were all rounded up,
652
01:26:29,102 --> 01:26:33,940
life would be better
without us in Greece.
653
01:26:34,023 --> 01:26:39,112
It was signed by the police chiefs,
by officials and by the mayors.
654
01:26:39,195 --> 01:26:42,073
- That it's better without Jews?
- Yes.
655
01:26:42,615 --> 01:26:45,285
We found out after we came back.
656
01:26:47,620 --> 01:26:50,498
Was Corfu anti-Semitic?
657
01:26:54,919 --> 01:26:57,964
Corfu's always had anti-Semitism?
658
01:26:58,214 --> 01:26:59,757
It existed, sure,
659
01:26:59,841 --> 01:27:04,929
but it wasn't so strong
in the years just before that.
660
01:27:05,013 --> 01:27:06,264
Why not?
661
01:27:06,347 --> 01:27:11,144
Because they didn't
think like that against the Jews.
662
01:27:11,394 --> 01:27:15,106
ARMANDO AARON
President of the Corfu Jewish community
663
01:27:15,315 --> 01:27:19,402
- And now?
- Now we're free.
664
01:27:21,112 --> 01:27:24,991
- How do you get on with the Christians now?
- Very well.
665
01:27:34,500 --> 01:27:37,337
- What'd he say?
- He asked me what you said.
666
01:27:37,420 --> 01:27:41,257
He agrees our relations
with the Christians are very good.
667
01:27:55,396 --> 01:27:59,817
- Did all the Jews live in the ghetto?
- Most of them.
668
01:28:05,573 --> 01:28:07,909
What happened after the Jews left?
669
01:28:07,992 --> 01:28:12,246
They took all our possessions,
all the gold we had with us.
670
01:28:12,330 --> 01:28:16,334
They took the keys to our houses
and stole everything.
671
01:28:20,088 --> 01:28:22,757
To whom was all this given?
Who stole it all?
672
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:27,095
By law, it was to go
to the Greek government.
673
01:28:27,178 --> 01:28:32,100
But the state got only a small part of it.
674
01:28:32,183 --> 01:28:35,019
The rest was stolen, usurped.
675
01:28:35,228 --> 01:28:38,690
- By whom?
- By everybody, and by the Germans.
676
01:28:43,486 --> 01:28:46,656
Of the 1,700 people deported...
677
01:28:46,739 --> 01:28:50,076
Around 122 were saved.
678
01:28:50,743 --> 01:28:53,579
95% of them died.
679
01:28:56,541 --> 01:28:59,043
Was it a long trip
from Corfu to Auschwitz?
680
01:28:59,127 --> 01:29:01,671
We were arrested here on June 9,
681
01:29:01,754 --> 01:29:05,508
and finally arrived June 29.
682
01:29:05,591 --> 01:29:09,429
Most were burned on the night of the 29th.
683
01:29:09,929 --> 01:29:12,265
It lasted from June 9 to 29?
684
01:29:16,394 --> 01:29:19,188
We stayed here for around 5 days.
685
01:29:21,983 --> 01:29:23,651
Here in the fort.
686
01:29:26,654 --> 01:29:31,159
No one dared escape
and leave his father, mother, brothers.
687
01:29:31,242 --> 01:29:36,914
Our solidarity was
on religious and family grounds.
688
01:29:39,542 --> 01:29:42,462
The first group left on June 11.
689
01:29:44,047 --> 01:29:48,468
I went with the 2nd convoy, on June 15.
690
01:29:56,350 --> 01:29:58,436
What kind of a boat were you on?
691
01:29:58,978 --> 01:30:05,359
A zattera.
That's a boat made of barrels and planks.
692
01:30:05,443 --> 01:30:09,155
It was towed by a small boat
with Germans in it.
693
01:30:11,115 --> 01:30:14,619
On our boat there were 1, 2 or 3 guards,
694
01:30:14,702 --> 01:30:18,122
not many Germans, but we were terrified.
695
01:30:18,206 --> 01:30:21,959
You can understand,
terror is the best of guards.
696
01:30:44,565 --> 01:30:47,860
- What was the journey like?
- Terrible! Terrible!
697
01:30:50,071 --> 01:30:52,698
No water, nothing to eat.
698
01:30:52,782 --> 01:30:58,538
90 cars that were good
for only 20 animals,
699
01:30:59,038 --> 01:31:00,790
all of us standing up.
700
01:31:03,543 --> 01:31:05,711
A lot of us died.
701
01:31:06,671 --> 01:31:10,174
Later they put the dead
in another car in quicklime.
702
01:31:10,258 --> 01:31:15,471
They burned them in Auschwitz, too.
703
01:31:24,564 --> 01:31:29,485
Next figure: WALTER STIER
Ex-member of the Nazi party
704
01:31:30,361 --> 01:31:34,574
Former head, Reich Railways, Bureau 33
(“Railroads of the Reich”)
705
01:31:35,950 --> 01:31:38,327
You never saw a train?
706
01:31:38,703 --> 01:31:40,496
No, never.
707
01:31:41,706 --> 01:31:44,709
We had so much work,
I never left my desk.
708
01:31:45,710 --> 01:31:48,045
We worked day and night.
709
01:31:54,427 --> 01:31:56,012
“GE. D. O.B. ”
710
01:31:56,679 --> 01:32:00,683
“GE DOB ” means
'Head office of Eastbound Traffic. ”
711
01:32:05,271 --> 01:32:09,775
In January 1940, I was assigned
to GEDOB Krakow.
712
01:32:12,236 --> 01:32:16,699
In mid-1943, I was moved to Warsaw.
713
01:32:17,909 --> 01:32:23,497
I was made chief traffic planner.
714
01:32:23,748 --> 01:32:26,459
Chief of the traffic planning office.
715
01:32:28,628 --> 01:32:35,009
But your duties were the same
before and after 1943?
716
01:32:35,843 --> 01:32:40,973
The only change:
I was promoted to head of the department.
717
01:32:44,185 --> 01:32:50,441
What were your specific duties
at GEDOB in Poland during the war?
718
01:32:51,484 --> 01:32:54,237
The work was barely different
719
01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:57,281
from the work in Germany:
720
01:32:59,659 --> 01:33:01,494
preparing timetables,
721
01:33:01,577 --> 01:33:07,667
coordinating the movement
of special trains with regular trains.
722
01:33:09,460 --> 01:33:12,380
- There were several departments?
- Yes.
723
01:33:13,339 --> 01:33:17,885
Department 33 was in charge
of special trains
724
01:33:17,969 --> 01:33:20,638
and regular trains.
725
01:33:22,139 --> 01:33:25,017
The special trains
were handled by Department 33.
726
01:33:25,935 --> 01:33:29,522
You were always
in the Department of Special Trains?
727
01:33:29,605 --> 01:33:31,148
Yes.
728
01:33:32,108 --> 01:33:36,529
What's the difference between
a special and a regular train ?
729
01:33:38,239 --> 01:33:40,658
A regular train may be used
730
01:33:40,741 --> 01:33:45,162
by anyone
who purchases a ticket.
731
01:33:48,082 --> 01:33:50,876
Say from Krakow to Warsaw.
732
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:53,546
Or from Krakow to Lemberg.
733
01:33:55,214 --> 01:34:00,803
A special train has to be ordered.
734
01:34:04,098 --> 01:34:07,977
The train is specially put together
735
01:34:08,060 --> 01:34:11,230
and people PaY---
736
01:34:12,189 --> 01:34:14,358
group fares.
737
01:34:15,192 --> 01:34:17,653
Are there still special trains now?
738
01:34:17,737 --> 01:34:19,572
Of course.
739
01:34:19,989 --> 01:34:22,325
Just as there were then.
740
01:34:22,950 --> 01:34:26,829
For group vacations
you can organize a special train?
741
01:34:26,912 --> 01:34:29,707
Yes, for instance,
742
01:34:29,790 --> 01:34:34,712
for immigrant workers
returning home for the holidays,
743
01:34:35,463 --> 01:34:40,551
special trains are scheduled.
744
01:34:40,634 --> 01:34:44,805
Or else one couldn't handle the traffic.
745
01:34:47,016 --> 01:34:52,980
You said after the war you handled
trains for visiting dignitaries.
746
01:34:53,064 --> 01:34:55,775
After the war, yes.
747
01:34:56,734 --> 01:35:00,613
If a king visits Germany by train,
748
01:35:00,696 --> 01:35:02,531
that's a special train?
749
01:35:02,615 --> 01:35:04,784
That's a special train.
750
01:35:05,326 --> 01:35:10,456
But the procedure isn't the same
751
01:35:10,539 --> 01:35:18,005
as for special trains
for group tours, and so on.
752
01:35:18,089 --> 01:35:23,052
State visits are handled
by the Foreign Service.
753
01:35:23,135 --> 01:35:24,804
Right.
754
01:35:26,389 --> 01:35:29,308
May I ask you another question?
755
01:35:30,309 --> 01:35:35,815
Why were there more special trains
756
01:35:35,898 --> 01:35:38,359
during the war, than before or after?
757
01:35:38,442 --> 01:35:41,654
I see what you're getting at.
758
01:35:41,737 --> 01:35:48,619
You're referring to
the so-called “Resettlement trains.”
759
01:35:49,120 --> 01:35:53,666
- “Resettlement.” That's it.
- That's what they were called.
760
01:35:53,749 --> 01:35:57,128
Those trains were ordered
761
01:35:59,088 --> 01:36:08,347
by the Ministry of Transport of the Reich.
762
01:36:09,390 --> 01:36:14,979
You needed an order from the Ministry
of Transport of the Reich...
763
01:36:18,065 --> 01:36:20,443
- In Berlin?
- Correct.
764
01:36:24,113 --> 01:36:27,491
As for the implementation of those orders,
765
01:36:27,575 --> 01:36:32,955
the Head Office of Eastbound Traffic
in Berlin dealt with it.
766
01:36:33,038 --> 01:36:34,874
Yes, I understand.
767
01:36:34,957 --> 01:36:37,543
- Is that clear?
- Perfectly.
768
01:36:37,877 --> 01:36:43,716
But mostly, at that time,
who was being “resettled”?
769
01:36:44,175 --> 01:36:46,510
No! We didn't know that.
770
01:36:47,094 --> 01:36:50,431
Only when we were fleeing
from Warsaw ourselves,
771
01:36:50,514 --> 01:36:54,101
did we learn
that they could have been Jews
772
01:36:54,185 --> 01:36:57,688
or criminals, or similar people.
773
01:36:57,771 --> 01:36:59,315
Jews, criminals?
774
01:36:59,398 --> 01:37:01,442
Criminals. All kinds.
775
01:37:01,525 --> 01:37:03,903
Special trains for criminals?
776
01:37:03,986 --> 01:37:09,492
No, that was just an expression.
777
01:37:09,575 --> 01:37:11,785
You couldn't talk about that.
778
01:37:11,869 --> 01:37:15,331
Unless you were tired of life,
779
01:37:15,414 --> 01:37:18,375
it was best not to mention that.
780
01:37:18,584 --> 01:37:26,050
But you knew that the trains
to Treblinka or Auschwitz were...
781
01:37:26,133 --> 01:37:28,552
Of course we knew.
782
01:37:28,969 --> 01:37:30,846
I was the last district:
783
01:37:30,930 --> 01:37:34,600
Without me, these trains
couldn't reach their destination.
784
01:37:35,351 --> 01:37:37,561
For instance,
a train that started in Essen
785
01:37:37,645 --> 01:37:42,233
had to go through
the district of Wuppertal,
786
01:37:42,316 --> 01:37:47,112
Hannover, Magdeburg, Berlin,
787
01:37:48,239 --> 01:37:53,035
Frankfurt/Oder, Posen, Warsaw, etc.
788
01:37:53,118 --> 01:37:54,662
So I had to.
789
01:37:54,745 --> 01:37:59,625
Did you know that Treblinka
meant extermination?
790
01:37:59,708 --> 01:38:01,126
Of course not!
791
01:38:01,210 --> 01:38:03,128
You didn't know?
792
01:38:03,212 --> 01:38:05,381
Good God, no!
How could we know?
793
01:38:05,464 --> 01:38:08,092
I never went to Treblinka.
794
01:38:08,175 --> 01:38:14,974
I stayed in Krakow, in Warsaw,
glued to my desk.
795
01:38:15,307 --> 01:38:16,809
You were a...
796
01:38:16,892 --> 01:38:19,979
I was strictly a bureaucrat!
797
01:38:20,062 --> 01:38:21,230
I see.
798
01:38:21,313 --> 01:38:23,190
But it's astonishing
799
01:38:23,274 --> 01:38:28,279
that people in the Department
of Special Trains
800
01:38:28,362 --> 01:38:32,908
never knew about the “final solution. ”
801
01:38:32,992 --> 01:38:34,076
We were at war.
802
01:38:34,159 --> 01:38:37,830
Because there were others
803
01:38:37,913 --> 01:38:40,958
who worked for the rail roads who knew.
804
01:38:41,041 --> 01:38:43,836
Like the train conductors.
805
01:38:44,169 --> 01:38:46,255
Yes, they saw it. They did.
806
01:38:46,338 --> 01:38:50,676
But as to what happened, I know...
807
01:38:50,759 --> 01:38:54,346
What was Treblinka for you?
Treblinka or Auschwitz?
808
01:38:54,430 --> 01:38:58,517
Yes, for us Treblinka,
Belzec, and all that,
809
01:38:58,601 --> 01:39:01,312
were concentration camps.
810
01:39:01,395 --> 01:39:04,106
- A destination.
- Yes, that's all.
811
01:39:04,189 --> 01:39:06,358
- But not death.
- No.
812
01:39:06,442 --> 01:39:08,485
People were put up there.
813
01:39:08,569 --> 01:39:12,698
For instance,
for a train coming from Essen
814
01:39:12,781 --> 01:39:19,622
or Cologne, or elsewhere,
room had to be made for them there.
815
01:39:19,705 --> 01:39:24,251
With the war and the allies
advancing everywhere,
816
01:39:24,335 --> 01:39:28,631
those people had to be
concentrated in camps.
817
01:39:28,714 --> 01:39:32,092
When exactly did you find out?
818
01:39:32,176 --> 01:39:38,015
When the word got around,
819
01:39:38,098 --> 01:39:40,768
when it was whispered.
820
01:39:40,851 --> 01:39:44,271
It was never said outright.
Good God, no!
821
01:39:44,355 --> 01:39:46,065
They'd have hauled you off at once!
822
01:39:46,148 --> 01:39:48,734
We heard things...
823
01:39:49,068 --> 01:39:52,571
- Rumors?
- That's it, rumors.
824
01:39:52,655 --> 01:39:54,657
During the war?
825
01:39:55,407 --> 01:39:57,451
Towards the end of the war.
826
01:39:57,534 --> 01:39:59,328
- Not in 1942?
- No!
827
01:39:59,411 --> 01:40:01,747
Good God, no! Not a word!
828
01:40:01,997 --> 01:40:06,502
Towards the end of 1944, maybe.
829
01:40:06,585 --> 01:40:08,462
- End of 1944?
- Not before.
830
01:40:08,545 --> 01:40:10,005
What did you...?
831
01:40:10,089 --> 01:40:12,549
It was said that
832
01:40:12,633 --> 01:40:16,345
people were being sent to camps,
833
01:40:16,428 --> 01:40:21,475
and those who weren't in good health
probably wouldn't survive.
834
01:40:21,558 --> 01:40:25,229
Extermination came to you
as a big surprise?
835
01:40:25,312 --> 01:40:27,106
Completely. Yes.
836
01:40:27,523 --> 01:40:30,192
- You had no idea.
- Not the slightest.
837
01:40:30,275 --> 01:40:33,779
Like that camp, what was its name...?
838
01:40:34,446 --> 01:40:37,825
It was in the Oppeln district.
839
01:40:38,367 --> 01:40:40,536
I've got it: Auschwitz!
- Yes.
840
01:40:40,619 --> 01:40:43,831
Auschwitz was in the Oppeln district.
- Right.
841
01:40:43,914 --> 01:40:48,460
Auschwitz wasn't far from Krakow.
- That's true.
842
01:40:48,544 --> 01:40:50,963
We never heard a word about that.
843
01:40:51,630 --> 01:40:55,759
- Auschwitz to Krakow is 40 miles.
- That's not very far.
844
01:40:56,135 --> 01:40:58,929
And we knew nothing.
Not a clue.
845
01:41:00,472 --> 01:41:03,851
But you knew that the Nazis...
846
01:41:03,934 --> 01:41:09,064
that Hitler didn't like the Jews?
847
01:41:09,148 --> 01:41:10,524
That we did.
848
01:41:10,607 --> 01:41:14,653
It was well-known,
it appeared in print.
849
01:41:14,737 --> 01:41:16,488
It was no secret.
850
01:41:16,989 --> 01:41:22,119
But as to their extermination,
that was news to us.
851
01:41:22,202 --> 01:41:26,540
I mean, even today people deny it.
852
01:41:26,623 --> 01:41:30,419
They say there couldn't
have been so many Jews.
853
01:41:30,502 --> 01:41:32,421
Is it true? I don't know.
854
01:41:32,504 --> 01:41:34,339
That's what they say.
855
01:41:34,548 --> 01:41:38,469
Anyway what was done was an outrage.
856
01:41:38,552 --> 01:41:40,888
- What?
- The extermination.
857
01:41:40,971 --> 01:41:44,892
Everyone condemns it.
Every decent person.
858
01:41:44,975 --> 01:41:47,352
But as for knowing about it, we didn't.
859
01:41:50,397 --> 01:41:52,649
The Poles, for instance.
860
01:41:53,108 --> 01:41:57,279
The Polish people knew everything.
861
01:41:57,362 --> 01:42:00,365
That's not surprising, Dr. Sorel.
862
01:42:00,449 --> 01:42:05,370
They lived nearby,
they heard, they talked.
863
01:42:05,454 --> 01:42:08,832
And they didn't have to keep quiet.
864
01:50:45,724 --> 01:50:50,395
TREBLINKA - THE STATION
865
01:58:02,493 --> 01:58:05,913
The “special detail's” life depended
866
01:58:05,997 --> 01:58:09,459
on the trainloads due for extermination.
867
01:58:25,016 --> 01:58:27,602
When a lot of them came in,
868
01:58:30,480 --> 01:58:33,024
the “special detail” was enlarged.
869
01:58:43,868 --> 01:58:46,704
They couldn't do without the detail,
870
01:58:47,038 --> 01:58:50,666
so there was no weeding-out.
871
01:58:52,293 --> 01:58:56,464
OSWIECIM (AUSCHWITZ)
THE STATION TODAY
872
01:58:56,881 --> 01:59:00,885
But when there were fewer trainloads,
873
01:59:04,388 --> 01:59:09,894
it meant immediate extermination for us.
874
01:59:15,650 --> 01:59:18,653
We, in the “special detail, ” knew
875
01:59:18,736 --> 01:59:21,614
that a lack of trains
876
01:59:22,073 --> 01:59:24,784
would lead to our liquidation.
877
01:59:46,097 --> 01:59:50,351
- FILIP MULLER -
The “special detail” lived in a crisis situation.
878
01:59:50,434 --> 01:59:54,397
Every day,
879
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:58,359
we saw thousands
and thousands of innocent people
880
01:59:58,609 --> 02:00:01,571
disappear up the chimney.
881
02:00:02,488 --> 02:00:06,951
With our own eyes,
we could truly fathom
882
02:00:07,660 --> 02:00:10,538
what it means to be a human being.
883
02:00:11,289 --> 02:00:13,708
There they came,
884
02:00:13,791 --> 02:00:19,005
men, women, children, all innocent.
885
02:00:20,047 --> 02:00:23,426
They suddenly vanished,
886
02:00:23,509 --> 02:00:25,803
and the world said nothing!
887
02:00:25,887 --> 02:00:30,266
We felt abandoned.
By the world, by humanity.
888
02:00:30,725 --> 02:00:35,730
But the situation taught us fully
889
02:00:36,898 --> 02:00:41,527
what the possibility of survival meant.
890
02:00:42,987 --> 02:00:44,906
For we could gauge
891
02:00:45,489 --> 02:00:48,618
the infinite value of human life.
892
02:00:49,744 --> 02:00:52,288
And we were convinced
893
02:00:52,830 --> 02:00:58,169
that hope lingers in man
as long as he lives.
894
02:00:58,252 --> 02:01:02,256
Where there's life,
hope must never be relinquished.
895
02:01:02,340 --> 02:01:06,677
That's why we struggled
through our lives of hardship,
896
02:01:06,969 --> 02:01:11,641
day after day, week after week,
month after month,
897
02:01:11,724 --> 02:01:14,560
year after year,
898
02:01:15,353 --> 02:01:20,024
hoping against hope to survive,
899
02:01:22,860 --> 02:01:26,447
to escape that hell.
900
02:01:57,728 --> 02:02:00,106
At that time,
901
02:02:00,773 --> 02:02:05,069
in January, February,
902
02:02:06,570 --> 02:02:08,114
March,
903
02:02:09,240 --> 02:02:12,743
hardly any trains arrived.
904
02:02:20,084 --> 02:02:23,212
Was Treblinka glum without the trains?
905
02:02:25,589 --> 02:02:29,510
I wouldn't say the Jews were glum.
906
02:02:29,593 --> 02:02:32,972
They became so when they realized...
907
02:02:33,931 --> 02:02:38,352
I'll come to that later,
it's a story in itself.
908
02:02:40,479 --> 02:02:44,984
- Yes, it's a story in itself.
- It's a story in itself.
909
02:02:45,067 --> 02:02:46,861
Yes, I know.
910
02:02:47,361 --> 02:02:49,488
The Jews,
911
02:02:51,198 --> 02:02:54,243
those in the work squads,
thought at first...
912
02:02:54,326 --> 02:02:57,997
- Those in the work squads, yes.
- that they'd survive.
913
02:03:00,041 --> 02:03:04,253
But in January,
914
02:03:04,920 --> 02:03:06,589
when they stopped receiving food,
915
02:03:06,672 --> 02:03:12,303
for Wirth had decreed
that there were too many of them,
916
02:03:12,386 --> 02:03:16,307
there were a good 500 to 600
of them in Camp I...
917
02:03:16,724 --> 02:03:19,226
- Up there?
- Yes.
918
02:03:21,187 --> 02:03:24,815
To keep them from rebelling,
919
02:03:24,899 --> 02:03:27,943
they weren't shot or gassed,
920
02:03:28,027 --> 02:03:30,821
but starved.
921
02:03:31,030 --> 02:03:33,449
Then an epidemic broke out,
922
02:03:33,991 --> 02:03:37,036
a kind of typhus.
923
02:03:38,496 --> 02:03:42,249
The Jews stopped believing they'd make it.
924
02:03:42,333 --> 02:03:46,087
They were left to die.
They dropped like flies.
925
02:03:47,671 --> 02:03:49,673
It was all over.
926
02:03:50,174 --> 02:03:53,594
FRANZ SUCHOMEL
927
02:03:54,011 --> 02:03:56,222
They'd stopped believing.
928
02:03:57,515 --> 02:04:01,185
It was all very well to say...
929
02:04:01,268 --> 02:04:04,063
We kept on insisting,
“You're going to live!”
930
02:04:04,146 --> 02:04:06,524
We almost believed it ourselves.
931
02:04:06,607 --> 02:04:10,444
If you lie enough,
you believe your own lies.
932
02:04:10,528 --> 02:04:11,904
Yes.
933
02:04:12,863 --> 02:04:15,866
But they replied to me,
934
02:04:15,950 --> 02:04:21,872
“No, chief, we're just reprieved corpses.”
935
02:04:31,632 --> 02:04:35,803
The “dead season,”
as it was called,
936
02:04:36,387 --> 02:04:43,727
began in February 1943,
937
02:04:44,937 --> 02:04:49,066
after the big trainloads came in
from Grodno and Bialystok.
938
02:04:50,651 --> 02:04:52,778
Absolute quiet.
939
02:04:54,405 --> 02:04:59,493
It quieted in late January,
February and into March.
940
02:04:59,577 --> 02:05:00,911
Nothing.
941
02:05:01,412 --> 02:05:04,665
Not one trainload.
942
02:05:07,293 --> 02:05:10,212
The whole camp was empty,
943
02:05:14,258 --> 02:05:19,346
and suddenly, everywhere,
there was hunger.
944
02:05:26,437 --> 02:05:29,023
It kept increasing.
945
02:05:33,944 --> 02:05:37,323
And one day when the famine
was at its peak,
946
02:05:38,782 --> 02:05:45,623
Oberscharfuhrer Kurt Franz
appeared before us
947
02:05:47,958 --> 02:05:49,543
and told us,
948
02:05:50,377 --> 02:05:57,092
“The trains will be coming in again,
starting tomorrow.”
949
02:06:09,647 --> 02:06:11,482
We didn't say anything.
950
02:06:11,565 --> 02:06:14,735
We just looked at each other,
951
02:06:15,069 --> 02:06:20,991
and each of us thought,
952
02:06:21,533 --> 02:06:23,410
“Tomorrow
953
02:06:25,829 --> 02:06:29,083
the hunger will end.”
954
02:06:32,670 --> 02:06:35,673
At that period,
955
02:06:36,799 --> 02:06:41,679
we were actively planning the rebellion.
956
02:06:42,554 --> 02:06:46,308
We all wanted to survive
until the rebellion.
957
02:06:52,356 --> 02:06:57,194
The trainloads came from
an assembly camp in Saloniki.
958
02:06:58,612 --> 02:07:03,242
They'd brought in Jews
from Bulgaria, Macedonia.
959
02:07:05,369 --> 02:07:06,954
These were rich people:
960
02:07:07,037 --> 02:07:11,041
The passenger cars bulged
with possessions.
961
02:07:14,962 --> 02:07:21,927
Then an awful feeling gripped us,
962
02:07:22,553 --> 02:07:24,888
all of us, my companions
as well as myself.
963
02:07:24,972 --> 02:07:30,769
A feeling of helplessness,
964
02:07:30,853 --> 02:07:33,939
a feeling of shame.
965
02:07:36,150 --> 02:07:39,445
For we threw ourselves on their food.
966
02:07:40,070 --> 02:07:47,453
A de tail brought a crate
full of crackers,
967
02:07:48,078 --> 02:07:50,831
another full of jam.
968
02:07:50,914 --> 02:07:55,085
They deliberately dropped the crates,
969
02:07:56,211 --> 02:07:58,964
falling over each other,
970
02:07:59,048 --> 02:08:06,138
filling their mouths
with crackers and jam.
971
02:08:15,314 --> 02:08:20,944
The trainloads
from the Balkans brought us
972
02:08:21,195 --> 02:08:23,822
to a terrible realization:
973
02:08:27,451 --> 02:08:30,412
RICHARD GLAZAR
974
02:08:31,038 --> 02:08:34,917
We were the workers
in the Treblinka factory,
975
02:08:35,459 --> 02:08:37,628
and our lives depended
976
02:08:38,170 --> 02:08:43,092
on the whole manufacturing process,
977
02:08:43,842 --> 02:08:47,388
that is, the slaughtering process
at Treblinka.
978
02:08:52,601 --> 02:08:57,147
This realization came suddenly
979
02:08:57,231 --> 02:08:59,483
with the fresh trainloads?
980
02:08:59,566 --> 02:09:02,403
Maybe it wasn't so sudden,
981
02:09:03,445 --> 02:09:07,157
but it was only
with the Balkans trainloads
982
02:09:07,241 --> 02:09:10,661
that it became...
983
02:09:12,037 --> 02:09:15,958
so stark to us, unadorned.
984
02:09:17,000 --> 02:09:18,419
Why?
985
02:09:18,961 --> 02:09:22,464
24,000 people,
986
02:09:25,384 --> 02:09:30,264
probably with not a sick person
among them,
987
02:09:33,767 --> 02:09:38,147
not an invalid, all healthy and robust!
988
02:09:39,022 --> 02:09:43,110
I recall our watching them
from our barracks.
989
02:09:44,361 --> 02:09:48,740
They were already naked,
milling among their baggage.
990
02:09:48,824 --> 02:09:51,034
And David...
991
02:09:51,702 --> 02:09:54,037
David Bratt said to me,
992
02:09:54,538 --> 02:09:56,248
“Maccabees!
993
02:09:56,331 --> 02:09:59,710
The Maccabees have arrived in Treblinka!”
994
02:10:03,589 --> 02:10:07,968
Sturdy, physically strong people,
995
02:10:10,262 --> 02:10:12,890
unlike the others...
996
02:10:13,891 --> 02:10:14,975
Fighters!
997
02:10:15,058 --> 02:10:18,395
Yes, they could have been fighters.
998
02:10:22,149 --> 02:10:24,693
It was staggering for us,
999
02:10:25,360 --> 02:10:31,158
for these men and women, all splendid,
1000
02:10:32,784 --> 02:10:36,663
were wholly unaware
of what was in store for them.
1001
02:10:36,747 --> 02:10:39,249
Wholly unaware.
1002
02:10:44,796 --> 02:10:50,719
Never before had things gone
so smoothly and quickly.
1003
02:10:50,802 --> 02:10:52,179
Never.
1004
02:10:57,100 --> 02:11:00,395
We felt ashamed,
1005
02:11:00,479 --> 02:11:06,777
and also that this couldn't go on,
that something had to happen.
1006
02:11:09,029 --> 02:11:12,282
Not just a few people acting
1007
02:11:13,158 --> 02:11:16,245
but all of us.
1008
02:11:24,920 --> 02:11:31,218
The idea was almost ripe
back in November 1942.
1009
02:11:35,347 --> 02:11:40,310
Beginning in November '42
1010
02:11:41,144 --> 02:11:43,272
we'd noticed
1011
02:11:43,355 --> 02:11:47,651
that we were being “spared,”
1012
02:11:48,694 --> 02:11:51,071
in quotes.
1013
02:11:52,155 --> 02:11:55,075
We noticed it
1014
02:11:55,158 --> 02:11:57,327
and we also learned
1015
02:11:58,328 --> 02:12:03,584
that Stangl, the commandant,
wanted, for efficiency's sake,
1016
02:12:03,667 --> 02:12:06,670
to hang on to men
who were already trained,
1017
02:12:07,754 --> 02:12:11,967
specialists in the various tasks:
1018
02:12:12,050 --> 02:12:14,469
sorters, corpse-haulers,
1019
02:12:14,553 --> 02:12:19,600
barbers who cut the women's hair,
1020
02:12:19,683 --> 02:12:21,184
and so on.
1021
02:12:26,064 --> 02:12:33,405
This in fact is what later
gave us the chance
1022
02:12:34,031 --> 02:12:35,741
to prepare,
1023
02:12:35,824 --> 02:12:39,328
to organize the uprising.
1024
02:12:50,714 --> 02:12:52,883
We had a plan
1025
02:12:52,966 --> 02:12:57,387
worked out in January 1943,
1026
02:12:58,096 --> 02:13:02,059
code-named “The Time.”
1027
02:13:04,186 --> 02:13:06,146
At a set time,
1028
02:13:06,229 --> 02:13:13,153
we were to attack the SS everywhere,
1029
02:13:14,154 --> 02:13:19,242
seize their weapons
and attack the Kommandantur.
1030
02:13:21,870 --> 02:13:25,040
But we couldn't do it
1031
02:13:25,624 --> 02:13:30,087
because things were
at a standstill in the camp,
1032
02:13:30,671 --> 02:13:34,091
and because typhus had already broken out.
1033
02:13:58,198 --> 02:14:02,452
In the fall of 1943,
1034
02:14:04,121 --> 02:14:10,127
when it was clear to all of us
1035
02:14:11,044 --> 02:14:14,381
that no one would help us
1036
02:14:16,007 --> 02:14:19,094
unless we helped ourselves,
1037
02:14:21,680 --> 02:14:25,642
a key question faced us all:
1038
02:14:27,936 --> 02:14:31,273
For us in the 'Special detail, ”
1039
02:14:32,023 --> 02:14:35,485
was there any chance
to halt this wave of extermination
1040
02:14:35,986 --> 02:14:39,656
and still save our lives?
1041
02:14:46,872 --> 02:14:51,835
We could see only one:
1042
02:14:54,045 --> 02:14:58,425
armed rebellion.
1043
02:15:02,846 --> 02:15:05,348
We thought
1044
02:15:06,308 --> 02:15:11,354
that if we could get hold
of a few weapons
1045
02:15:14,483 --> 02:15:19,780
and secure the participation
of all the inmates
1046
02:15:22,240 --> 02:15:24,367
throughout the camp,
1047
02:15:24,451 --> 02:15:28,038
there was a chance of success.
1048
02:15:30,290 --> 02:15:33,293
That was the essential thing.
1049
02:15:36,296 --> 02:15:39,549
That's why our liaison men
1050
02:15:40,675 --> 02:15:47,140
contacted the leaders
of the Resistance movement,
1051
02:15:47,224 --> 02:15:48,725
first in Birkenau,
1052
02:15:48,975 --> 02:15:51,561
then in Auschwitz I,
1053
02:15:53,980 --> 02:15:57,859
so the revolt could be
coordinated everywhere.
1054
02:16:02,572 --> 02:16:04,616
FILIP MULLER
1055
02:16:04,866 --> 02:16:07,410
The answer came
1056
02:16:07,494 --> 02:16:11,623
that the Resistance command
in Auschwitz I
1057
02:16:11,706 --> 02:16:14,751
agreed with our plan
1058
02:16:15,502 --> 02:16:20,173
and would join with us.
1059
02:16:29,266 --> 02:16:34,062
Unfortunately,
among the Resistance leaders,
1060
02:16:35,313 --> 02:16:39,401
there were very few Jews.
1061
02:16:40,402 --> 02:16:43,280
Most were political prisoners
1062
02:16:44,322 --> 02:16:47,409
whose lives weren't at stake,
1063
02:16:48,618 --> 02:16:52,581
and for whom each day of life
lived through
1064
02:16:52,664 --> 02:16:58,086
increased their chances of survival.
1065
02:16:59,296 --> 02:17:03,925
For us in the “special detail, ”
it was the opposite.
1066
02:17:10,682 --> 02:17:14,102
RUDOLF VRBA
1067
02:18:27,842 --> 02:18:31,221
AUSCHWITZ - BIRKENAU
1068
02:27:05,776 --> 02:27:10,406
RUTH ELIAS - ISRAEL
Deported from Theresienstadt
1069
02:38:25,873 --> 02:38:29,084
CREMATORIUM V
1070
02:38:30,335 --> 02:38:32,254
At the end of February,
1071
02:38:33,213 --> 02:38:37,551
I was in a night squad at Crematorium V.
1072
02:38:40,804 --> 02:38:43,015
Around midnight,
1073
02:38:44,266 --> 02:38:48,186
there appeared a man
from the political section:
1074
02:38:49,021 --> 02:38:51,523
Oberscharfuhrer Hustek.
1075
02:38:55,235 --> 02:38:59,698
He handed Oberscharfuhrer Voss a note.
1076
02:39:07,706 --> 02:39:15,547
Voss was then in charge
of the 4 crematoria.
1077
02:39:19,676 --> 02:39:24,848
I saw Voss unfold the note
1078
02:39:29,978 --> 02:39:34,816
and talk to himself,
saying, “Sure, always Voss.
1079
02:39:35,359 --> 02:39:41,073
What'd they do without Voss?
How can we do it?”
1080
02:39:41,156 --> 02:39:43,116
That's how he talked to himself.
1081
02:39:43,200 --> 02:39:47,245
Suddenly he told me, “Go get the kapos.”
1082
02:39:47,329 --> 02:39:51,750
I fetched the kapos, kapo Schloime,
1083
02:39:52,292 --> 02:39:55,003
and kapo Wacek.
1084
02:39:55,087 --> 02:39:59,049
They came in, and he asked them,
1085
02:39:59,132 --> 02:40:00,968
“How many pieces are left?”
1086
02:40:01,051 --> 02:40:04,012
By “pieces” he meant bodies.
1087
02:40:04,096 --> 02:40:08,558
They told him, “Around 500 pieces.”
1088
02:40:09,559 --> 02:40:14,314
He said, “By morning,
those 500 pieces must be...
1089
02:40:18,151 --> 02:40:20,570
reduced to ashes.
1090
02:40:21,488 --> 02:40:24,074
You're sure it's 500?”
1091
02:40:24,157 --> 02:40:26,118
“Just about,” they said.
1092
02:40:26,201 --> 02:40:29,871
“Assholes!
What do you mean, just about?”
1093
02:40:30,622 --> 02:40:33,250
Then he left
1094
02:40:33,333 --> 02:40:38,463
for the “undressing room”
to see for himself.
1095
02:40:38,547 --> 02:40:40,090
Where the bodies were?
1096
02:40:40,173 --> 02:40:42,634
They were piled there:
1097
02:40:42,718 --> 02:40:46,138
At Crematorium V,
the “undressing room” also served
1098
02:40:46,221 --> 02:40:48,807
as a warehouse for bodies.
1099
02:40:48,890 --> 02:40:49,975
After the gassing?
1100
02:40:50,058 --> 02:40:54,688
After the gassing
the bodies were dragged there.
1101
02:40:54,771 --> 02:40:57,941
Voss went there to check.
1102
02:40:58,025 --> 02:41:04,614
He forgot the note,
leaving it on the table.
1103
02:41:06,033 --> 02:41:10,328
I quickly scanned it
1104
02:41:11,329 --> 02:41:14,875
and was shocked by what I read.
1105
02:41:16,418 --> 02:41:19,880
BIRKENAU
THE LAKE OF ASHES
1106
02:41:25,469 --> 02:41:30,432
The crematorium was
to be gotten ready
1107
02:41:32,517 --> 02:41:38,982
for “special treatment”
of the Czech family camp.
1108
02:41:46,782 --> 02:41:51,787
In the morning,
when the day squad came on,
1109
02:41:53,121 --> 02:41:56,792
I ran into kapo Kaminski,
1110
02:41:57,417 --> 02:42:03,298
one of the Resistance leaders
in the “special detail”
1111
02:42:04,341 --> 02:42:07,552
and told him the news.
1112
02:42:08,804 --> 02:42:10,680
He informed me
1113
02:42:11,973 --> 02:42:18,480
that Crematorium II
was also being prepared.
1114
02:42:18,897 --> 02:42:22,567
That the ovens were ready there, too.
1115
02:42:30,575 --> 02:42:32,661
And he exhorted me,
1116
02:42:33,370 --> 02:42:37,666
“You have friends and fellow countrymen.
1117
02:42:39,292 --> 02:42:44,047
Go see them. They're locksmiths
and can move around
1118
02:42:44,131 --> 02:42:47,717
so they can go to Camp B II B.
1119
02:42:48,468 --> 02:42:51,513
Tell them to warn these people
1120
02:42:51,596 --> 02:42:54,182
of what's in store for them,
1121
02:42:54,266 --> 02:42:57,018
and say that if they defend themselves,
1122
02:42:57,102 --> 02:43:02,607
we'll reduce the crematoria to ashes.
1123
02:43:03,817 --> 02:43:07,279
And at Camp B II B,
1124
02:43:07,737 --> 02:43:10,323
they can immediately
burn down their barracks.”
1125
02:43:15,203 --> 02:43:18,540
We were certain that the next night,
1126
02:43:18,623 --> 02:43:21,251
these people would be gassed.
1127
02:43:21,668 --> 02:43:26,756
But when no night squad went out,
we were relieved.
1128
02:43:28,466 --> 02:43:31,052
The deadline had been postponed
1129
02:43:31,887 --> 02:43:35,390
for a few days.
1130
02:43:35,473 --> 02:43:37,100
But many prisoners,
1131
02:43:37,184 --> 02:43:41,563
including the Czechs in the family camp,
1132
02:43:41,646 --> 02:43:45,317
accused us of spreading panic,
1133
02:43:45,400 --> 02:43:47,736
of having...
1134
02:43:49,571 --> 02:43:54,826
of having circulated false reports.
1135
02:54:22,411 --> 02:54:26,499
That night I was at Crematorium II.
1136
02:54:32,296 --> 02:54:37,927
As soon as the people got out of the vans,
1137
02:54:38,177 --> 02:54:41,639
they were blinded by floodlights
1138
02:54:41,722 --> 02:54:44,225
and forced through a corridor
1139
02:54:44,308 --> 02:54:52,275
to the stairs leading
to the “undressing room.”
1140
02:54:52,358 --> 02:54:56,487
They were blinded, made to run.
1141
02:54:56,571 --> 02:54:59,198
Blows were rained on them.
1142
02:55:00,199 --> 02:55:04,829
Those who didn't run fast enough
were beaten to death
1143
02:55:04,912 --> 02:55:07,164
by the SS.
1144
02:55:07,248 --> 02:55:12,587
The violence used against them
was extraordinary.
1145
02:55:13,296 --> 02:55:14,839
And suddenly...
1146
02:55:14,922 --> 02:55:16,757
Without explanation?
1147
02:55:16,841 --> 02:55:18,551
Not a word.
1148
02:55:18,634 --> 02:55:22,388
As soon as they left the vans,
1149
02:55:22,471 --> 02:55:25,766
the beatings began.
1150
02:55:26,934 --> 02:55:30,521
When they entered the “undressing room,”
1151
02:55:30,897 --> 02:55:37,737
I was standing near the rear door,
1152
02:55:38,779 --> 02:55:43,034
and from there
I witnessed the frightful scene.
1153
02:55:43,117 --> 02:55:46,621
The people were bloodied.
1154
02:55:47,496 --> 02:55:49,790
They knew then where they were.
1155
02:55:49,874 --> 02:55:52,752
They stared at the pillars
1156
02:55:53,127 --> 02:56:00,343
of the so-called “international
Information Center” I've mentioned,
1157
02:56:00,801 --> 02:56:03,137
and that terrified them.
1158
02:56:03,220 --> 02:56:05,264
What they read didn't reassure them.
1159
02:56:05,348 --> 02:56:10,519
On the contrary, it panicked them.
1160
02:56:10,603 --> 02:56:13,022
They knew the score.
1161
02:56:13,105 --> 02:56:17,777
They'd learned at Camp B ll B
what went on there.
1162
02:56:17,860 --> 02:56:19,737
They were in despair.
1163
02:56:19,820 --> 02:56:22,323
Children clung to each other.
1164
02:56:22,823 --> 02:56:25,159
Their mothers,
1165
02:56:26,577 --> 02:56:30,456
their parents, the old people all cried,
1166
02:56:30,539 --> 02:56:32,124
overcome with misery.
1167
02:56:32,208 --> 02:56:34,168
Suddenly,
1168
02:56:34,251 --> 02:56:39,548
some SS officers appeared on the steps,
1169
02:56:39,632 --> 02:56:46,180
including the camp commandant,
Schwarzhuber.
1170
02:56:46,263 --> 02:56:52,895
He'd given them his word
as an SS officer
1171
02:56:52,979 --> 02:56:59,026
that they'd be transferred to Heydebreck.
1172
02:56:59,110 --> 02:57:04,991
So they all began to cry out, to beg,
1173
02:57:05,866 --> 02:57:10,496
shouting, “Heydebreck was a trick!
1174
02:57:10,579 --> 02:57:15,459
We were lied to!
We want to live! We want to work!”
1175
02:57:15,543 --> 02:57:20,715
They looked
their SS executioners in the eye,
1176
02:57:20,798 --> 02:57:23,801
but the SS men
1177
02:57:26,345 --> 02:57:28,681
remained impassive,
1178
02:57:28,764 --> 02:57:30,599
just staring at them.
1179
02:57:30,683 --> 02:57:33,561
There was a movement in the crowd.
1180
02:57:33,644 --> 02:57:39,025
They probably wanted
to rush to the SS men
1181
02:57:39,108 --> 02:57:41,736
and tell them how they'd been lied to.
1182
02:57:41,819 --> 02:57:47,116
Then some guards surged forward,
1183
02:57:47,199 --> 02:57:50,536
wielding clubs,
1184
02:57:50,619 --> 02:57:53,164
and more people were injured.
1185
02:57:53,873 --> 02:57:56,208
In the “undressing room.”
1186
02:57:56,292 --> 02:57:58,586
The violence climaxed
1187
02:57:58,669 --> 02:58:07,511
when they tried to force
the people to undress.
1188
02:58:07,595 --> 02:58:09,722
A few obeyed,
1189
02:58:09,805 --> 02:58:13,142
only a handful.
1190
02:58:13,225 --> 02:58:19,774
Most of them refused to follow the order.
1191
02:58:20,024 --> 02:58:23,944
Suddenly, as though in chorus,
1192
02:58:25,404 --> 02:58:28,616
like a chorus...
1193
02:58:28,699 --> 02:58:32,369
they all began to sing.
1194
02:58:34,330 --> 02:58:38,959
The whole “undressing room” rang
1195
02:58:39,043 --> 02:58:43,631
with the Czech national anthem,
1196
02:58:43,714 --> 02:58:46,342
and the “Hatikva.”
1197
02:58:46,884 --> 02:58:51,305
That moved me terribly, that...
1198
02:59:09,990 --> 02:59:12,284
Please stop!
1199
02:59:13,869 --> 02:59:18,499
That was happening to my countrymen,
1200
02:59:18,707 --> 02:59:20,918
and I realized
1201
02:59:21,710 --> 02:59:25,464
that my life had become meaningless.
1202
02:59:26,298 --> 02:59:29,426
Why go on living? For what?
1203
02:59:31,762 --> 02:59:36,767
So I went into the gas chamber with them,
1204
02:59:39,728 --> 02:59:42,523
resolved to die.
1205
02:59:44,400 --> 02:59:46,443
With them.
1206
02:59:47,027 --> 02:59:51,991
Suddenly, some who recognized me
came up to me.
1207
02:59:52,491 --> 02:59:55,911
For my locksmith friends and I
1208
02:59:55,995 --> 02:59:59,123
had sometimes gone into the family camp.
1209
03:00:02,418 --> 03:00:08,424
A small group of women approached.
1210
03:00:08,716 --> 03:00:13,387
They looked at me and said right there
in the gas chamber...
1211
03:00:13,470 --> 03:00:15,681
You were inside the gas chamber?
1212
03:00:15,764 --> 03:00:18,142
One of them said,
1213
03:00:22,229 --> 03:00:25,399
“So you want to die.
1214
03:00:25,733 --> 03:00:27,568
But that's senseless.
1215
03:00:27,651 --> 03:00:32,072
Your death won't give us back our lives.
1216
03:00:32,990 --> 03:00:35,409
That's no way.
1217
03:00:36,994 --> 03:00:41,415
You must get out of here alive,
1218
03:00:42,583 --> 03:00:46,545
you must bear witness to our suffering,
1219
03:00:46,629 --> 03:00:50,257
and to the injustice done to us.”
1220
03:02:36,697 --> 03:02:39,700
Rudolf Vrba
and his friend Wetzler
1221
03:02:40,034 --> 03:02:43,579
escaped on April 7, 1944.
1222
03:02:43,912 --> 03:02:47,041
Several prisoners
had previously tried to flee,
1223
03:02:47,374 --> 03:02:50,377
but all were caught.
1224
03:06:10,744 --> 03:06:14,623
JAN KARSKY,
University Professor (USA)
1225
03:06:15,249 --> 03:06:19,378
Former courier
of the Polish government in exile
1226
03:14:16,312 --> 03:14:19,232
NEW YORK
1227
03:16:36,035 --> 03:16:37,829
WASHINGTON
1228
03:20:44,742 --> 03:20:47,703
THE RUHR
1229
03:24:52,156 --> 03:24:55,242
AUSCHWITZ - BIRKENAU
1230
03:29:40,486 --> 03:29:43,489
WARSAW
1231
03:45:26,222 --> 03:45:28,975
WARSAW
1232
03:45:34,355 --> 03:45:40,445
Next figure: Dr FRANZ GRASSLER,
deputy to Auerswald,
1233
03:45:41,946 --> 03:45:48,286
the Nazi Commissioner
of the Warsaw ghetto
1234
03:46:17,148 --> 03:46:21,611
You don't remember those days?
1235
03:46:24,364 --> 03:46:26,115
Not much.
1236
03:46:27,867 --> 03:46:31,579
I recall more clearly
my pre-war mountaineering trips
1237
03:46:31,663 --> 03:46:33,790
than the entire war period
1238
03:46:33,873 --> 03:46:36,584
and those days in Warsaw.
1239
03:46:40,338 --> 03:46:44,759
All in all, those were bad times.
1240
03:46:47,971 --> 03:46:50,932
It's a fact: we tend to forget,
1241
03:46:51,599 --> 03:46:53,226
thank God,
1242
03:46:53,601 --> 03:46:56,396
the bad times
more easily than the good.
1243
03:47:01,651 --> 03:47:04,445
The bad times are repressed.
1244
03:47:10,535 --> 03:47:13,746
I'll help you remember...
1245
03:47:18,793 --> 03:47:24,716
In Warsaw,
you were Dr. Auerswald's deputy.
1246
03:47:25,842 --> 03:47:27,176
Yes.
1247
03:47:29,887 --> 03:47:31,889
Dr. Auerswald was...
1248
03:47:31,973 --> 03:47:35,518
Commissioner
of the “Jewish district” of Warsaw.
1249
03:47:38,688 --> 03:47:42,734
Dr. Grassier, this is Czerniakow's diary.
1250
03:47:42,817 --> 03:47:44,610
You're mentioned in it.
1251
03:47:44,694 --> 03:47:47,196
It's been printed, it exists?
1252
03:47:47,405 --> 03:47:50,783
He kept a diary
1253
03:47:51,826 --> 03:47:56,789
that was recently published.
1254
03:48:00,209 --> 03:48:07,508
He wrote on July 7, 1941
1255
03:48:07,967 --> 03:48:09,218
July 7, 1941?
1256
03:48:09,302 --> 03:48:13,806
That's the first time
I've relearned a date.
1257
03:48:15,433 --> 03:48:17,518
May I take notes?
1258
03:48:17,769 --> 03:48:21,689
After all... it interests me too.
1259
03:48:22,607 --> 03:48:26,235
So in July I was already there!
1260
03:48:28,071 --> 03:48:32,033
He wrote on July 7, 1941,
1261
03:48:33,159 --> 03:48:39,165
“Morning in the Community”
- the Jewish Council HQ -
1262
03:48:39,582 --> 03:48:43,544
“and later with Auerswald, Schlosser...”
1263
03:48:44,545 --> 03:48:45,755
Schlosser was...
1264
03:48:45,838 --> 03:48:48,216
“and Grassier,
1265
03:48:50,551 --> 03:48:53,554
on routine matters.”
1266
03:48:54,013 --> 03:48:56,349
That's the first time...
1267
03:48:56,432 --> 03:48:58,184
That my name is mentioned...
1268
03:48:58,726 --> 03:49:01,062
Yes, but there were 3 of us.
1269
03:49:01,145 --> 03:49:04,899
Schlosser... was in...
the “economic department.”
1270
03:49:04,982 --> 03:49:08,653
I think he had to do with economics.
1271
03:49:10,029 --> 03:49:14,117
And the second time
1272
03:49:15,284 --> 03:49:18,955
was on July 22.
1273
03:49:20,081 --> 03:49:25,378
Czerniakow was president
of the Warsaw Jewish Council
1274
03:49:26,295 --> 03:49:28,422
He wrote every day?
1275
03:49:28,506 --> 03:49:29,632
Yes.
1276
03:49:30,216 --> 03:49:31,926
Yes, every day.
1277
03:49:32,635 --> 03:49:35,513
It's quite amazing...
1278
03:49:36,681 --> 03:49:38,891
That the diary was saved.
1279
03:49:39,475 --> 03:49:42,603
It's amazing that it was saved.
1280
03:49:47,984 --> 03:49:52,238
BURLINGTON - VERMONT (USA)
1281
03:50:50,588 --> 03:50:53,216
RAUL HILBERG
1282
03:56:30,344 --> 03:56:32,805
Did you go into the ghetto?
1283
03:56:33,389 --> 03:56:37,184
Seldom. When I had to visit Czerniakow.
1284
03:56:38,185 --> 03:56:41,480
What were the conditions like?
1285
03:56:41,564 --> 03:56:43,190
Awful.
1286
03:56:43,274 --> 03:56:46,110
Yes' appalling
- Yes?
1287
03:56:46,193 --> 03:56:51,490
I never went back
when I saw what it was like.
1288
03:56:51,574 --> 03:56:53,492
Unless I had to.
1289
03:56:53,576 --> 03:57:01,333
In the whole period
I think I only went once or twice.
1290
03:57:01,417 --> 03:57:05,462
We, at the Commission, tried
1291
03:57:06,088 --> 03:57:09,717
to maintain the ghetto
for its labor force,
1292
03:57:09,800 --> 03:57:14,805
and especially to prevent epidemic,
like typhus.
1293
03:57:14,888 --> 03:57:16,765
That was the big danger.
1294
03:57:22,104 --> 03:57:23,897
- Yes.
- Yes?
1295
03:57:24,148 --> 03:57:27,735
Can you tell us about typhus?
1296
03:57:29,528 --> 03:57:31,405
I'm not a doctor.
1297
03:57:31,488 --> 03:57:36,702
I only know that typhus
is a very dangerous epidemic
1298
03:57:36,785 --> 03:57:41,624
that wipes people out like the plague,
1299
03:57:41,707 --> 03:57:44,710
and that it can't be confined to a ghetto.
1300
03:57:44,793 --> 03:57:47,755
If typhus had broken out...
1301
03:57:47,838 --> 03:57:49,423
I don't think it did,
1302
03:57:49,506 --> 03:57:52,259
but there was fear that it might...
1303
03:57:52,343 --> 03:57:55,262
it would have killed
the Poles and the Germans.
1304
03:57:55,346 --> 03:57:58,932
Why was there typhus in the ghetto?
1305
03:57:59,433 --> 03:58:00,934
I don't know if there was,
1306
03:58:01,018 --> 03:58:05,397
but there was a danger,
because of the famine.
1307
03:58:05,481 --> 03:58:08,442
People didn't get enough to eat.
1308
03:58:08,734 --> 03:58:13,530
That's what was so awful.
1309
03:58:13,614 --> 03:58:18,410
We, at the Commission,
1310
03:58:18,494 --> 03:58:22,373
did our best to feed the ghetto,
1311
03:58:22,456 --> 03:58:29,588
so it wouldn't become
an incubator of epidemics.
1312
03:58:29,672 --> 03:58:34,968
Aside from humanitarian factors,
that's what mattered.
1313
03:58:35,427 --> 03:58:40,432
If typhus had broken out...
and it didn't...
1314
03:58:40,516 --> 03:58:44,144
it wouldn't have stopped at the ghetto.
1315
03:58:44,687 --> 03:58:48,732
Czerniakow also wrote that
1316
03:58:48,816 --> 03:58:54,321
one of the reasons
the ghetto was walled in
1317
03:58:54,697 --> 03:58:57,574
was because of this German fear.
1318
03:58:57,991 --> 03:59:00,953
Yes, absolutely!
Fear of typhus.
1319
03:59:01,036 --> 03:59:08,127
He says Germans always
associated Jews with typhus.
1320
03:59:08,210 --> 03:59:09,461
Maybe.
1321
03:59:09,545 --> 03:59:13,048
I'm not sure
if there were grounds for it.
1322
03:59:13,966 --> 03:59:18,679
But imagine that mass of people
packed in the ghetto...
1323
03:59:18,762 --> 03:59:22,850
There weren't only the Warsaw Jews,
1324
03:59:22,933 --> 03:59:24,810
but others who came later.
1325
03:59:24,893 --> 03:59:27,646
The danger kept on growing.
1326
04:02:42,299 --> 04:02:48,472
The Germans had a policy
on the Warsaw ghetto.
1327
04:02:50,515 --> 04:02:53,060
What was that policy?
1328
04:02:55,979 --> 04:02:58,774
You're asking more than I know.
1329
04:02:58,857 --> 04:03:02,611
The policy that wound up
with extermination,
1330
04:03:03,278 --> 04:03:04,821
the Final Solution...
1331
04:03:04,905 --> 04:03:07,491
we knew nothing about it.
1332
04:03:07,574 --> 04:03:10,661
Ourjob was to maintain the ghetto,
1333
04:03:10,744 --> 04:03:15,707
and try to preserve
the Jews as a work force.
1334
04:03:16,333 --> 04:03:21,838
The Commission's goal,
1335
04:03:21,922 --> 04:03:23,966
in fact, was very different
1336
04:03:24,049 --> 04:03:29,346
from the one that later
led to extermination.
1337
04:03:30,555 --> 04:03:33,684
Yes, but do you know
how many people died
1338
04:03:33,767 --> 04:03:37,354
in the ghetto each month in 1941?
1339
04:03:37,437 --> 04:03:40,649
I don't know now... if I ever knew it.
1340
04:03:40,732 --> 04:03:45,195
But you did know.
There are exact figures.
1341
04:03:46,947 --> 04:03:48,532
I probably knew...
1342
04:03:48,615 --> 04:03:52,995
Yes: 5,000 a month.
1343
04:03:53,078 --> 04:03:55,580
5,000 a month? Yes, well...
1344
04:03:55,664 --> 04:03:58,291
- That's a lot.
- That's a lot, of course.
1345
04:03:58,375 --> 04:04:03,171
But there were far too many people
in the ghetto.
1346
04:04:03,255 --> 04:04:05,549
That was it. Far too many.
1347
04:04:06,550 --> 04:04:09,219
Far too many.
1348
04:04:15,517 --> 04:04:18,478
My question is philosophical.
1349
04:04:19,646 --> 04:04:23,358
What does a ghetto mean, in your opinion?
1350
04:04:27,863 --> 04:04:32,743
History's full of ghettos,
1351
04:04:33,326 --> 04:04:36,913
going back centuries, for all I know.
1352
04:04:39,082 --> 04:04:41,877
Persecution of the Jews
wasn't a German invention,
1353
04:04:41,960 --> 04:04:45,505
and it didn't start with World War II.
1354
04:04:48,216 --> 04:04:50,886
The Poles persecuted them too.
1355
04:04:55,223 --> 04:04:57,768
But a ghetto like Warsaw's,
1356
04:04:57,851 --> 04:05:00,353
in a great capital,
1357
04:05:01,313 --> 04:05:03,273
in the heart of the city.
1358
04:05:03,523 --> 04:05:05,984
That was unusual.
1359
04:05:13,867 --> 04:05:18,080
You say you wanted to maintain the ghetto.
1360
04:05:18,163 --> 04:05:23,001
Our mission wasn't
to annihilate the ghetto,
1361
04:05:23,085 --> 04:05:26,171
but to keep it alive, to maintain it.
1362
04:05:26,254 --> 04:05:29,382
What does “alive” mean in such...
1363
04:05:30,217 --> 04:05:31,885
That was the problem.
1364
04:05:31,968 --> 04:05:33,637
That was the whole problem...
1365
04:05:33,720 --> 04:05:36,723
The problem needed to be resolved.
I knew that.
1366
04:05:36,807 --> 04:05:40,894
But people were dying in the streets.
1367
04:05:41,978 --> 04:05:44,940
There were bodies everywhere.
- Yes.
1368
04:05:47,484 --> 04:05:50,570
That was the paradox.
1369
04:05:50,654 --> 04:05:54,282
- You see it as a paradox?
- I'm sure of it.
1370
04:05:54,366 --> 04:05:56,076
Why?
1371
04:05:57,119 --> 04:05:59,371
Can you explain?
- No.
1372
04:06:00,872 --> 04:06:02,332
Why not?
1373
04:06:02,833 --> 04:06:06,753
Explain what?
1374
04:06:06,837 --> 04:06:09,798
But the fact is...
1375
04:06:09,881 --> 04:06:14,678
Jews were being exterminated
daily in the ghetto.
1376
04:06:15,011 --> 04:06:16,263
Czerniakow wrote...
1377
04:06:16,346 --> 04:06:18,849
To maintain it properly,
1378
04:06:18,932 --> 04:06:22,727
we'd have needed
more substantial rations,
1379
04:06:22,811 --> 04:06:25,605
and less crowding.
1380
04:06:26,439 --> 04:06:31,027
Why weren't the rations more humane?
1381
04:06:33,280 --> 04:06:35,073
Why weren't they?
1382
04:06:35,866 --> 04:06:38,827
That was a German decision, no?
1383
04:06:39,202 --> 04:06:44,875
There was no real decision
to starve the ghetto.
1384
04:06:44,958 --> 04:06:51,339
The big decision to exterminate
came much later.
1385
04:06:51,548 --> 04:06:55,385
That's right, later. In 1942.
1386
04:06:55,677 --> 04:06:57,554
Precisely!
1387
04:06:58,221 --> 04:07:00,974
- 3 years later.
- Just so.
1388
04:07:01,057 --> 04:07:04,895
Our mission, as I recall it,
1389
04:07:04,978 --> 04:07:09,941
was to manage the ghetto,
1390
04:07:10,942 --> 04:07:17,324
and, naturally,
with those inadequate rations,
1391
04:07:17,407 --> 04:07:19,701
and the overcrowding,
1392
04:07:19,784 --> 04:07:24,915
a high, even excessive death rate
was inevitable.
1393
04:07:25,248 --> 04:07:26,583
Yes.
1394
04:07:29,502 --> 04:07:34,716
What does “maintain” the ghetto
mean in such conditions...
1395
04:07:34,799 --> 04:07:37,761
the food, sanitation, etc.?
1396
04:07:38,470 --> 04:07:42,807
What could the Jews do
against such measures?
1397
04:07:48,605 --> 04:07:50,982
They couldn't do anything.
1398
04:10:55,166 --> 04:10:59,754
The Final Solution Conference
was held here
1399
04:12:55,203 --> 04:13:00,124
BELZEC
SITE OF THE EXTERMINATION CAMP
1400
04:14:48,191 --> 04:14:52,445
Why did Czerniakow commit suicide?
1401
04:14:53,529 --> 04:15:00,662
Because he realized
there was no future for the ghetto.
1402
04:15:00,745 --> 04:15:06,042
He probably saw before I did
that the Jews would be killed.
1403
04:15:08,836 --> 04:15:16,219
I suppose the Jews already had
their excellent secret services.
1404
04:15:16,511 --> 04:15:19,263
They were too well informed,
1405
04:15:19,347 --> 04:15:21,432
better than we were.
1406
04:15:22,016 --> 04:15:24,018
- Think so?
- Yes, I do.
1407
04:15:24,102 --> 04:15:26,771
The Jews knew more than you?
1408
04:15:26,854 --> 04:15:29,357
I'm convinced of it!
1409
04:15:29,440 --> 04:15:32,360
It's hard to believe.
1410
04:15:32,443 --> 04:15:36,531
The German administration
was never informed
1411
04:15:36,614 --> 04:15:39,951
of what would happen to the Jews.
1412
04:15:43,996 --> 04:15:47,625
When was the first deportation
to Treblinka?
1413
04:15:54,966 --> 04:15:58,428
Before Auerswald's suicide, I think.
1414
04:15:59,804 --> 04:16:00,972
Auerswald's?
1415
04:16:01,055 --> 04:16:04,392
I mean Czerniakow's. Sorry.
1416
04:16:05,309 --> 04:16:07,437
July 22.
1417
04:16:08,604 --> 04:16:11,983
Those are dates...
1418
04:16:12,608 --> 04:16:17,196
So the deportations began July 22, 1942.
1419
04:16:17,280 --> 04:16:18,656
Yes.
1420
04:16:19,949 --> 04:16:21,367
To... Treblinka.
1421
04:16:21,451 --> 04:16:25,705
And Czerniakow killed himself July 23.
1422
04:16:26,539 --> 04:16:28,249
Yes, that is...
1423
04:16:28,332 --> 04:16:29,834
- The next day.
- The next day.
1424
04:16:29,917 --> 04:16:33,713
So that was it, he'd realized
1425
04:16:33,796 --> 04:16:36,716
that his idea...
1426
04:16:36,799 --> 04:16:41,220
it was his idea, I think, of working
in good faith with the Germans,
1427
04:16:41,304 --> 04:16:45,224
in the Jews' best interests.
1428
04:16:45,308 --> 04:16:50,980
He'd realized this idea,
this dream was destroyed.
1429
04:16:51,731 --> 04:16:55,485
- That the idea was a dream.
- Yes.
1430
04:16:55,818 --> 04:17:00,740
And when the dream faded,
he took the logical way out.
1431
04:22:07,963 --> 04:22:12,718
Did you think this idea of a ghetto
was a good one?
1432
04:22:12,802 --> 04:22:16,472
A sort of self-management, right?
- That's right.
1433
04:22:16,555 --> 04:22:18,474
A mini-State?
1434
04:22:18,849 --> 04:22:21,310
It worked well.
1435
04:22:21,977 --> 04:22:25,147
But it was self-management for death, no?
1436
04:22:25,815 --> 04:22:28,818
We know that now.
But at the time...
1437
04:22:28,901 --> 04:22:31,237
- Even then!
- No!
1438
04:22:31,320 --> 04:22:32,905
Czerniakow wrote,
1439
04:22:32,988 --> 04:22:37,868
“We're puppets, we have no power.”
1440
04:22:37,952 --> 04:22:38,786
Yes.
1441
04:22:38,869 --> 04:22:40,412
No power.
1442
04:22:40,496 --> 04:22:42,915
Sure... that was...
1443
04:22:43,165 --> 04:22:48,170
- You Germans were the overlords.
- Yes.
1444
04:22:48,254 --> 04:22:50,965
The overlords. The masters.
1445
04:22:51,048 --> 04:22:52,925
Obviously.
1446
04:22:53,008 --> 04:22:57,888
Czerniakow was merely a tool.
1447
04:22:58,180 --> 04:23:03,102
Yes, but a good tool.
1448
04:23:03,185 --> 04:23:07,940
Jewish self-management worked well,
I can tell you.
1449
04:23:09,150 --> 04:23:13,070
It worked well for 3 years,
1450
04:23:15,531 --> 04:23:19,410
1941,1942,1943...
2112 years... and 'm the end...
1451
04:23:19,493 --> 04:23:21,120
In the end...
1452
04:23:21,203 --> 04:23:24,707
“Worked well” for what?
1453
04:23:24,790 --> 04:23:26,667
To what end?
1454
04:23:27,293 --> 04:23:30,462
For self-preservation.
1455
04:23:30,546 --> 04:23:32,506
No! For death!
1456
04:23:32,590 --> 04:23:33,632
Yes, but...
1457
04:23:33,716 --> 04:23:36,802
Self-management, self-preservation...
1458
04:23:36,886 --> 04:23:39,221
That's easy to say now.
1459
04:23:39,513 --> 04:23:45,436
You admitted the conditions were inhuman.
1460
04:23:45,519 --> 04:23:47,855
Atrocious... horrible!
1461
04:23:49,023 --> 04:23:52,985
So it was clear even then...
1462
04:23:54,069 --> 04:23:57,239
No! Extermination wasn't clear.
1463
04:23:58,240 --> 04:24:00,951
Now we see the result.
1464
04:24:01,035 --> 04:24:03,454
Extermination isn't so simple.
1465
04:24:03,537 --> 04:24:05,831
One step was taken,
1466
04:24:05,915 --> 04:24:09,335
then another, and another, and another...
1467
04:24:09,418 --> 04:24:10,961
Yes.
1468
04:24:11,754 --> 04:24:16,508
But to understand the process, one must...
1469
04:24:16,592 --> 04:24:23,641
I repeat: extermination did not
take place in the ghetto, not at first.
1470
04:24:23,724 --> 04:24:26,310
Only with the evacuations.
1471
04:24:26,393 --> 04:24:28,395
Otherwise, in the ghetto, we would have...
1472
04:24:28,604 --> 04:24:30,731
Evacuations?
1473
04:24:30,814 --> 04:24:32,983
The evacuations to Treblinka.
1474
04:24:33,067 --> 04:24:37,196
The ghetto could have been
wiped out with weapons,
1475
04:24:38,322 --> 04:24:41,659
as it was finally done,
after the rebellion.
1476
04:24:41,951 --> 04:24:45,496
After I'd left.
But at the start...
1477
04:24:46,330 --> 04:24:48,874
Mr. Lanzmann, this is getting us nowhere.
1478
04:24:50,584 --> 04:24:53,796
We're reaching no new conclusions.
1479
04:24:54,630 --> 04:25:00,261
I don't think we can.
1480
04:25:00,344 --> 04:25:04,390
I didn't know then what I know now.
1481
04:25:06,141 --> 04:25:09,561
You weren't a nonentity.
1482
04:25:10,354 --> 04:25:12,982
- But I was!
- You were important.
1483
04:25:14,275 --> 04:25:17,528
- You overestimate my role.
- No.
1484
04:25:19,697 --> 04:25:24,910
You were 2nd to the Commissioner
of the Warsaw “Jewish district.”
1485
04:25:24,994 --> 04:25:26,704
But I had no power.
1486
04:25:26,787 --> 04:25:28,747
It was something.
1487
04:25:28,831 --> 04:25:33,127
You were part of the vast
German power structure.
1488
04:25:33,210 --> 04:25:36,922
Correct. But a small part.
1489
04:25:37,006 --> 04:25:41,760
You overestimate the authority
of a deputy of 28 then.
1490
04:25:41,844 --> 04:25:43,971
- You were 30.
- 28.
1491
04:25:44,054 --> 04:25:46,348
At 30, you were...
1492
04:25:50,519 --> 04:25:53,731
you were mature.
1493
04:25:53,814 --> 04:25:59,945
Yes, but for a lawyer
who got his degree at 27,
1494
04:26:00,029 --> 04:26:01,822
it's just a beginning.
1495
04:26:06,452 --> 04:26:07,953
You had a doctorate.
1496
04:26:08,037 --> 04:26:10,331
The title proves nothing.
1497
04:26:11,373 --> 04:26:13,792
- Did Auerswald have one too?
- No.
1498
04:26:13,876 --> 04:26:16,545
But the title's irrelevant.
1499
04:26:16,795 --> 04:26:18,881
Doctor of Law...
1500
04:26:19,590 --> 04:26:22,634
What did you do after the war?
1501
04:26:23,469 --> 04:26:28,766
I was with a mountaineering
publishing house.
1502
04:26:28,849 --> 04:26:30,059
That so?
1503
04:26:30,142 --> 04:26:35,230
I wrote and published mountain guidebooks.
1504
04:26:35,856 --> 04:26:38,692
I published a climbers' magazine.
1505
04:26:39,234 --> 04:26:42,279
Is climbing your main interest?
1506
04:26:43,238 --> 04:26:44,698
Yes.
1507
04:26:45,574 --> 04:26:47,493
The mountains, the air...
1508
04:26:47,576 --> 04:26:48,577
Yes.
1509
04:26:48,660 --> 04:26:51,580
The sun, the pure air...
1510
04:26:51,663 --> 04:26:53,749
Not like the ghetto air.
1511
04:27:43,465 --> 04:27:46,969
The words
The words that I write to you
1512
04:27:47,428 --> 04:27:50,722
Are not written with ink,
but with tears
1513
04:27:50,973 --> 04:27:54,393
The best years are ending now
1514
04:27:54,643 --> 04:27:57,980
Are not written with ink,
but with tears
1515
04:27:58,272 --> 04:28:01,733
The best years are ending now
1516
04:28:02,025 --> 04:28:05,112
And are gone, not to return
1517
04:28:05,654 --> 04:28:09,575
It is difficult to fix
that which is shattered
1518
04:28:09,825 --> 04:28:14,705
And it is difficult to unite our love
1519
04:28:14,955 --> 04:28:17,666
Oh, show your tears
1520
04:28:17,749 --> 04:28:20,586
The fault is not mine
1521
04:28:20,669 --> 04:28:24,256
Because it must be so
1522
04:28:24,339 --> 04:28:28,469
It must be so
It must be so
1523
04:28:28,844 --> 04:28:32,347
We must both separate
1524
04:28:32,639 --> 04:28:36,268
It must be so
It must be so
1525
04:28:36,518 --> 04:28:39,646
The love that ends for both of us
1526
04:28:39,897 --> 04:28:44,568
Do you remember when I left you?
1527
04:28:44,902 --> 04:28:48,780
My fate dictated I must leave you
1528
04:28:48,864 --> 04:28:51,241
Because in this way
I will never again be bothered
1529
04:28:51,325 --> 04:28:53,410
NEW YORK
GERTRUDE SCHNEIDER AND HER MOTHER
1530
04:28:53,494 --> 04:28:56,455
Because it must be so
1531
04:28:56,914 --> 04:29:00,959
LOHAME HAGHETTAOT
KIBBUTZ MUSEUM
1532
04:29:01,043 --> 04:29:05,339
GHETTO FIGHTERS' KIBBUTZ,
ISRAEL
1533
04:29:05,422 --> 04:29:09,760
The Jewish Combat Organization (J.C.O.)
in the Warsaw ghetto
1534
04:29:09,843 --> 04:29:14,139
was officially formed on July 28, 1942.
1535
04:29:14,223 --> 04:29:18,602
After the first mass
deportation to Treblinka,
1536
04:29:18,685 --> 04:29:21,980
which was interrupted on September 30,
1537
04:29:22,064 --> 04:29:26,360
some 60,000 Jews remained in the ghetto.
1538
04:29:26,443 --> 04:29:30,822
On January 18, 1943,
the deportations were resumed.
1539
04:29:30,906 --> 04:29:34,159
Despite a severe lack of weapons,
1540
04:29:34,243 --> 04:29:38,622
the members of the J.C.O.
called for resistance,
1541
04:29:38,705 --> 04:29:43,001
and started fighting,
to the Germans' total surprise.
1542
04:29:43,085 --> 04:29:45,337
It lasted 3 days.
1543
04:29:45,420 --> 04:29:48,715
The Nazis withdrew with losses,
1544
04:29:48,799 --> 04:29:53,178
abandoning weapons the Jews grabbed.
1545
04:29:53,262 --> 04:29:56,515
The deportations were stopped.
1546
04:29:56,598 --> 04:29:58,850
The Germans now knew
1547
04:29:58,934 --> 04:30:03,313
they had to fight to conquer the ghetto.
1548
04:30:03,397 --> 04:30:07,693
The battle began
on the evening of April 19, 1943,
1549
04:30:07,776 --> 04:30:12,155
the eve of Pessach Passover.
1550
04:30:12,239 --> 04:30:16,660
It had to be a fight to the death.
1551
04:31:17,638 --> 04:31:21,266
SIMHA ROTTEM, known as “Kajik”
1552
04:31:21,350 --> 04:31:24,978
ITZHAK ZUCKERMANN, known as “Antek,"
1553
04:31:25,062 --> 04:31:28,523
2nd in command of the J.C.O.
1554
04:31:32,361 --> 04:31:35,489
I began drinking after the war.
1555
04:31:43,872 --> 04:31:46,208
It was very difficult.
1556
04:32:02,516 --> 04:32:05,769
Claude, you asked for my impression.
1557
04:32:07,270 --> 04:32:10,857
If you could lick my heart,
1558
04:32:10,941 --> 04:32:13,443
it would poison you.
1559
04:32:16,738 --> 04:32:20,951
At the request of Mordechai Anielewicz,
1560
04:32:21,243 --> 04:32:24,329
commander-in-chief of the J. C. O. ,
1561
04:32:24,621 --> 04:32:29,167
Antek had left the ghetto
6 days before the German attack.
1562
04:32:29,459 --> 04:32:31,503
His mission:
1563
04:32:31,795 --> 04:32:35,924
To ask Polish Resistance leaders
to arm the Jews.
1564
04:32:36,258 --> 04:32:38,260
They refused.
1565
04:33:50,916 --> 04:33:56,421
I don't think the human tongue
can describe
1566
04:33:56,505 --> 04:33:59,382
the horror we went through in the ghetto.
1567
04:34:01,009 --> 04:34:05,096
In the streets,
if you can call them that,
1568
04:34:05,347 --> 04:34:08,308
for nothing was left of the streets,
1569
04:34:08,391 --> 04:34:13,355
we had to step over heaps of corpses.
1570
04:34:13,772 --> 04:34:16,775
There was no room to pass beside them.
1571
04:34:16,858 --> 04:34:20,612
Besides fighting the Germans,
we fought hunger
1572
04:34:20,695 --> 04:34:22,864
and thirst.
1573
04:34:22,948 --> 04:34:25,951
We had no contact with the outside world,
1574
04:34:26,034 --> 04:34:30,121
we were completely isolated,
cut off from the world.
1575
04:34:45,887 --> 04:34:48,306
We were in such a state
1576
04:34:48,390 --> 04:34:51,643
that we could no longer understand
1577
04:34:51,726 --> 04:34:55,605
the very meaning of
why we went on fighting.
1578
04:35:03,405 --> 04:35:07,158
We thought of attempting a breakout
1579
04:35:07,242 --> 04:35:10,996
to the Aryan part of Warsaw,
outside the ghetto.
1580
04:35:26,094 --> 04:35:28,346
Just before May 1,
1581
04:35:28,430 --> 04:35:30,891
Sigmund and I were sent
1582
04:35:30,974 --> 04:35:35,896
to try to contact Antek in Aryan Warsaw.
1583
04:35:53,330 --> 04:35:57,792
We found a tunnel
under Bonifrateska Street
1584
04:35:57,876 --> 04:36:02,339
that led out into Aryan Warsaw.
1585
04:36:34,746 --> 04:36:36,414
Early in the morning,
1586
04:36:36,498 --> 04:36:41,086
we suddenly emerged
into a street in broad daylight.
1587
04:36:49,886 --> 04:36:53,515
Imagine us on that sunny May 1,
1588
04:36:53,807 --> 04:36:58,436
stunned to find ourselves in the street,
among normal people.
1589
04:36:58,520 --> 04:37:02,065
We'd come from another planet.
1590
04:37:40,812 --> 04:37:45,567
People immediately jumped on us
1591
04:37:45,650 --> 04:37:48,987
because we certainly looked exhausted,
1592
04:37:49,070 --> 04:37:51,364
skinny, in rags.
1593
04:37:52,407 --> 04:37:57,203
Around the ghetto,
there were always suspicious Poles
1594
04:37:57,287 --> 04:37:59,164
who grabbed Jews.
1595
04:38:09,466 --> 04:38:12,594
By a miracle, we escaped them.
1596
04:38:27,442 --> 04:38:30,028
In Aryan Warsaw,
1597
04:38:30,111 --> 04:38:35,492
life went on as naturally
and normally as before.
1598
04:38:53,134 --> 04:38:55,428
The cafes operated normally,
1599
04:38:55,512 --> 04:38:58,473
the restaurants, buses, streetcars...
1600
04:38:58,556 --> 04:39:01,309
The movies were open.
1601
04:39:06,856 --> 04:39:11,986
The ghetto was an isolated island
amid normal life.
1602
04:39:45,520 --> 04:39:50,859
Our job was to contact
Itzhak Zuckermann
1603
04:39:51,442 --> 04:39:54,737
to try to mount a rescue operation,
1604
04:39:54,821 --> 04:39:57,407
to try to save the few fighters
1605
04:39:57,490 --> 04:40:00,535
who might still be alive in the ghetto.
1606
04:40:04,581 --> 04:40:08,710
We managed to contact Zuckermann.
1607
04:40:16,885 --> 04:40:20,555
We found two sewer workers.
1608
04:40:39,824 --> 04:40:41,784
On the night of May 8-9,
1609
04:40:41,868 --> 04:40:45,038
we decided to return to the ghetto
1610
04:40:45,121 --> 04:40:49,584
with another buddy, Riszek,
and the 2 sewer workers.
1611
04:40:50,084 --> 04:40:54,422
After the curfew, we entered the sewers.
1612
04:41:07,769 --> 04:41:12,232
We were entirely
at the mercy of the two workmen,
1613
04:41:12,315 --> 04:41:16,945
since only they knew
the ghetto's underground layout.
1614
04:41:31,334 --> 04:41:35,296
Halfway there, they decided to turn back,
1615
04:41:35,380 --> 04:41:40,093
they tried to drop us,
and we had to threaten them with our guns.
1616
04:41:45,974 --> 04:41:50,436
We went on through the sewers,
1617
04:41:59,988 --> 04:42:05,785
until one of the workmen told us
we were under the ghetto.
1618
04:42:10,540 --> 04:42:15,461
Riszek guarded them
so they couldn't escape.
1619
04:42:16,045 --> 04:42:19,632
MILA 18.
J.C.O. BUNKER HEADQUARTERS
1620
04:42:23,136 --> 04:42:26,347
I raised the manhole cover
1621
04:42:26,431 --> 04:42:28,933
to go up into the ghetto.
1622
04:42:49,454 --> 04:42:53,708
At bunker Mila 18, I missed them by a day.
1623
04:43:08,890 --> 04:43:12,560
I had returned the night of May 8-9.
1624
04:43:15,063 --> 04:43:20,777
The Germans found the bunker
on the morning of the 8th.
1625
04:43:21,194 --> 04:43:25,865
WARSAW - THE MONUMENT
TO THE GHETTO FIGHTERS
1626
04:43:42,173 --> 04:43:46,594
Most of its survivors committed suicide,
1627
04:43:46,677 --> 04:43:49,597
or succumbed to gas in the bunkers.
1628
04:43:50,306 --> 04:43:55,228
THE REPLICA OF THE MONUMENT
TO THE GHETTO FIGHTERS
1629
04:43:55,311 --> 04:43:58,231
JERUSALEM
1630
04:44:46,112 --> 04:44:50,450
I went to bunker Franciszkanska 22.
1631
04:44:51,325 --> 04:44:55,413
There was no answer
when I yelled the password,
1632
04:44:58,082 --> 04:45:01,169
so I had to go on through the ghetto.
1633
04:45:01,252 --> 04:45:05,423
I suddenly heard a woman
calling from the ruins.
1634
04:45:46,422 --> 04:45:50,968
It was darkest night,
no lights, you saw nothing.
1635
04:45:51,052 --> 04:45:54,805
All the houses were in ruins,
and I heard only one voice.
1636
04:45:54,889 --> 04:45:59,352
I thought some evil spell
had been cast on me,
1637
04:45:59,435 --> 04:46:02,188
a woman's voice talking from the rubble.
1638
04:46:02,271 --> 04:46:04,565
I circled the ruins.
1639
04:46:04,649 --> 04:46:06,234
I didn't look at my watch,
1640
04:46:06,317 --> 04:46:10,488
but I must have spent
a half hour exploring,
1641
04:46:10,571 --> 04:46:13,824
trying to find the woman
whose voice guided me,
1642
04:46:13,908 --> 04:46:16,911
but, unfortunately, I didn't find her.
1643
04:46:19,747 --> 04:46:22,083
Were there fires?
1644
04:46:43,980 --> 04:46:47,525
Strictly speaking, no,
for the flames had died down,
1645
04:46:47,608 --> 04:46:49,944
but there was still smoke,
1646
04:46:50,027 --> 04:46:52,405
and that awful smell
of charred flesh
1647
04:46:52,488 --> 04:46:56,117
of people who had surely
been burned alive.
1648
04:47:32,737 --> 04:47:35,406
I continued on my way,
1649
04:47:35,489 --> 04:47:40,119
going to other bunkers
in search of fighting units,
1650
04:47:40,202 --> 04:47:42,496
but it was the same everywhere.
1651
04:47:42,580 --> 04:47:46,292
I'd give the password: “Jan.”
1652
04:47:48,336 --> 04:47:51,005
That's a Polish first name, Jan.
1653
04:47:55,301 --> 04:47:57,887
Right. And I got no answer.
1654
04:47:57,970 --> 04:48:01,599
I went from bunker to bunker,
1655
04:48:01,682 --> 04:48:06,062
and after walking for hours in the ghetto,
1656
04:48:06,145 --> 04:48:09,273
I went back towards the sewers.
1657
04:48:09,357 --> 04:48:11,525
Was he alone then?
1658
04:48:15,279 --> 04:48:17,782
Yes, I was alone all the time.
1659
04:49:13,254 --> 04:49:15,631
Except for that woman's voice,
1660
04:49:15,715 --> 04:49:20,261
and a man I met
as I came out of the sewers,
1661
04:49:20,344 --> 04:49:23,556
I was alone throughout my tour
of the ghetto.
1662
04:49:23,639 --> 04:49:26,851
I did not meet a living soul.
1663
04:49:26,934 --> 04:49:29,645
At one point I remember
1664
04:49:29,729 --> 04:49:34,066
feel a kind of peace, or serenity,
1665
04:49:34,150 --> 04:49:37,319
when I said to myself, “I am the last Jew.
1666
04:49:37,403 --> 04:49:41,449
I will wait until tomorrow
and for the Germans.”