1 00:00:01,075 --> 00:00:02,534 [TV static drones] 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 3 00:00:02,617 --> 00:00:04,784 [bright tone] 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 5 00:00:14,158 --> 00:00:17,117 [soft orchestral music] 6 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:24,283 ♪ ♪ 7 00:00:25,534 --> 00:00:26,826 - Ladies and gentlemen, 8 00:00:26,909 --> 00:00:29,200 the auction will begin shortly. 9 00:00:29,283 --> 00:00:31,409 Please take your seats. 10 00:00:31,492 --> 00:00:35,867 ♪ ♪ 11 00:00:35,951 --> 00:00:37,784 - We'll start this one at 180,000. 12 00:00:37,867 --> 00:00:41,409 200,000, 220,000, 240,000, 260,000. 13 00:00:41,492 --> 00:00:42,784 Now 260,000. 14 00:00:42,867 --> 00:00:46,075 And we'll start at 350,000. 400,000, 450,000. 15 00:00:46,158 --> 00:00:48,951 500,000, 650,000, 700,000. 16 00:00:49,033 --> 00:00:52,701 Now 700,000, 750,000, 900,000, 950,000. 17 00:00:52,784 --> 00:00:54,283 So where's the bidder? $1 million 18 00:00:54,367 --> 00:00:55,867 on the telephone here. 1,100,000... 19 00:00:55,951 --> 00:00:57,534 - Art and money have always gone 20 00:00:57,617 --> 00:00:58,784 hand in hand. 21 00:00:58,867 --> 00:01:00,200 - 1,200,000. 22 00:01:00,283 --> 00:01:02,200 - It's very important for good art 23 00:01:02,283 --> 00:01:03,659 to be expensive. 24 00:01:03,742 --> 00:01:08,367 - And 1,400,000, 1,500,000, 1,600,000, now 1,700,000. 25 00:01:08,450 --> 00:01:09,909 Now it's $2 million. 26 00:01:09,992 --> 00:01:12,409 - You only protect things that are valuable. 27 00:01:12,492 --> 00:01:15,200 - The fabulous Frank Stella. - 2,200,000-- 28 00:01:15,283 --> 00:01:17,325 - If something has no financial value, 29 00:01:17,409 --> 00:01:18,701 people don't care. 30 00:01:18,784 --> 00:01:20,283 - 3,800,000. - $4 million. 31 00:01:20,367 --> 00:01:21,951 - 4.8 million. - 5 million. 32 00:01:22,033 --> 00:01:24,492 - They will not give it the necessary protection. 33 00:01:24,575 --> 00:01:27,283 - Damien Hirst at 9 million pounds. 34 00:01:27,367 --> 00:01:28,659 We'll obviously get on quick. 35 00:01:28,742 --> 00:01:31,117 $13 million, $13,500,000, 36 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:32,617 - $15 million. 37 00:01:32,701 --> 00:01:34,158 - Any more than $16 million? 38 00:01:34,242 --> 00:01:37,283 $17 million. 17,500,000. 39 00:01:37,367 --> 00:01:38,409 - At $80 million... 40 00:01:38,492 --> 00:01:39,617 - The only way to make sure 41 00:01:39,701 --> 00:01:42,367 that cultural artifacts survive 42 00:01:42,450 --> 00:01:44,992 is for them to have a commercial value. 43 00:01:45,075 --> 00:01:48,826 - Andy Warhol "Liz at $21 million. 44 00:01:48,909 --> 00:01:50,784 - Lot number 12 is the Jeff Koons. 45 00:01:50,867 --> 00:01:52,242 - $35 million. - Do I have 35? 46 00:01:52,325 --> 00:01:53,951 35 I have. 41 million. 47 00:01:54,033 --> 00:01:55,325 45 million. 48 00:01:55,409 --> 00:01:57,659 The "Balloon Dog" sold at 52 million. 49 00:01:57,742 --> 00:01:59,784 - A masterpiece by Jean-Michel Basquiat. 50 00:01:59,867 --> 00:02:02,784 $98 million. Last chance. 51 00:02:02,867 --> 00:02:05,033 For $98 million. 52 00:02:05,117 --> 00:02:06,701 Thank you, congratulations. 53 00:02:06,784 --> 00:02:08,033 Thank you very much. 54 00:02:08,117 --> 00:02:11,242 [applause] 55 00:02:13,867 --> 00:02:16,992 [quirky orchestral music] 56 00:02:17,075 --> 00:02:23,701 ♪ ♪ 57 00:02:23,784 --> 00:02:25,784 - Uh, these are all "Gazing Ball" paintings, 58 00:02:25,867 --> 00:02:29,200 but they're being worked on and I don't have the balls on... 59 00:02:29,283 --> 00:02:31,909 - Right. - Some of the--the paintings. 60 00:02:31,992 --> 00:02:34,325 ♪ ♪ 61 00:02:34,409 --> 00:02:38,117 This is a Giotto painting here that we're working on. 62 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,033 John was just here, uh, stenciling. 63 00:02:41,117 --> 00:02:44,450 You know, it's not the exact same size as the original, 64 00:02:44,534 --> 00:02:47,992 but, you know, it's the idea of this painting 65 00:02:48,075 --> 00:02:49,701 that I've tried to capture. 66 00:02:49,784 --> 00:02:51,909 - As a little boy, you were determined 67 00:02:51,992 --> 00:02:53,117 to be an artist, right? 68 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:54,325 - I always was. 69 00:02:54,409 --> 00:02:55,992 From the age of, uh, three, 70 00:02:56,075 --> 00:02:57,784 my parents kind of let me know 71 00:02:57,867 --> 00:03:00,909 that, "Oh, oh, Jeff, uh, that's kind of nice." 72 00:03:00,992 --> 00:03:02,701 And that gave me a sense of self. 73 00:03:02,784 --> 00:03:04,200 - Yes. - And, uh, you know, 74 00:03:04,283 --> 00:03:06,492 from, you know, the times that I was young, 75 00:03:06,575 --> 00:03:09,450 I would win awards for, uh, my artwork. 76 00:03:09,534 --> 00:03:11,784 And at college, I would always be showing 77 00:03:11,867 --> 00:03:13,867 in the President's office. And so-- 78 00:03:13,951 --> 00:03:15,158 - Really? - Yeah. 79 00:03:15,242 --> 00:03:16,534 - So some of your work is sold for 80 00:03:16,617 --> 00:03:18,409 as much as $50 million at auction. 81 00:03:18,492 --> 00:03:21,117 I mean, let's face it, you're the most successful 82 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,200 artist today in the world. 83 00:03:23,283 --> 00:03:25,909 - Uh, if that would be the case, okay, 84 00:03:25,992 --> 00:03:28,409 it's really quite, uh, humbling, you know? 85 00:03:28,492 --> 00:03:31,742 But, uh, the only thing that, you know, I've thought about, 86 00:03:31,826 --> 00:03:33,951 "Well, why do I make the things that I make?" 87 00:03:34,033 --> 00:03:36,742 And, you know, the only thing I have are my interests. 88 00:03:36,826 --> 00:03:39,575 [soft percussive music] 89 00:03:39,659 --> 00:03:41,534 ♪ ♪ 90 00:03:41,617 --> 00:03:45,701 - There's no question Jeff Koons changed everything, 91 00:03:45,784 --> 00:03:48,117 in terms of sculpture. 92 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,992 For example, the bunny. 93 00:03:50,075 --> 00:03:53,701 You'd look at it, and it was like Narcissus. 94 00:03:53,784 --> 00:03:55,409 I mean, you look into the water, 95 00:03:55,492 --> 00:03:56,617 what do you see? 96 00:03:56,701 --> 00:03:58,158 You see yourself. 97 00:03:58,242 --> 00:04:00,283 And you see all of the excess. 98 00:04:00,367 --> 00:04:02,992 You know, the wealth reflected 99 00:04:03,075 --> 00:04:05,534 in a Hong Kong inflatable bunny 100 00:04:05,617 --> 00:04:09,242 that had been magically turned into stainless steel. 101 00:04:09,325 --> 00:04:11,367 And it was perfect. 102 00:04:11,450 --> 00:04:13,534 ♪ ♪ 103 00:04:13,617 --> 00:04:15,951 Great art changes the way artists 104 00:04:16,033 --> 00:04:19,450 perceive what they should be doing. 105 00:04:19,534 --> 00:04:22,325 It's not kind of a single gimmick. 106 00:04:22,409 --> 00:04:26,117 Because, you know, a great gimmick is great 107 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,784 if it, like, takes you from here to there, 108 00:04:28,867 --> 00:04:30,283 if you own the gimmick. 109 00:04:30,367 --> 00:04:33,325 If the gimmick owns you, it's over. 110 00:04:33,409 --> 00:04:34,325 ♪ ♪ 111 00:04:34,409 --> 00:04:36,492 [birds chirping] 112 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,325 [Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 11"] 113 00:04:42,409 --> 00:04:48,742 ♪ ♪ 114 00:04:48,826 --> 00:04:51,909 [insects droning] 115 00:04:52,867 --> 00:04:55,659 - This is James Fenimore Cooper country. 116 00:04:55,742 --> 00:04:58,659 - It sure is. - Beethoven's favorite author. 117 00:04:58,742 --> 00:05:01,283 ♪ ♪ 118 00:05:01,367 --> 00:05:02,867 - So, Larry? - Yeah? 119 00:05:02,951 --> 00:05:05,158 - How do you start to learn how to see? 120 00:05:05,242 --> 00:05:08,909 - You don't. You don't. 121 00:05:08,992 --> 00:05:11,367 You didn't decide who your parents were. 122 00:05:11,450 --> 00:05:14,075 It's the same thing. - What do you mean? 123 00:05:14,158 --> 00:05:16,158 - Well, you don't decide certain things. 124 00:05:16,242 --> 00:05:18,492 You don't decide-- you don't pick your parents, 125 00:05:18,575 --> 00:05:22,242 and you don't pick who-- who you are. 126 00:05:22,325 --> 00:05:24,784 - Was that what it was like for you finding painting? 127 00:05:24,867 --> 00:05:26,867 - Yeah, I think so. 128 00:05:26,951 --> 00:05:30,075 I mean, I tried to--yeah. I wanted to be an artist. 129 00:05:30,158 --> 00:05:32,784 Now, an artist can be anything. 130 00:05:32,867 --> 00:05:36,742 You know, uh, a poet. A writer. 131 00:05:36,826 --> 00:05:40,909 A singer. You know, Hank Williams. 132 00:05:40,992 --> 00:05:43,992 It's what-- you do what you can do. 133 00:05:44,075 --> 00:05:47,409 - What's the relationship between art and money? 134 00:05:47,492 --> 00:05:52,325 - Art and money have no intrinsic hookup at all. 135 00:05:52,409 --> 00:05:53,701 It's not like sports. 136 00:05:53,784 --> 00:05:56,701 Your batting average is your batting average. 137 00:05:56,784 --> 00:05:59,951 You know, that's--that's the bottom line, you know? 138 00:06:00,033 --> 00:06:03,909 Um, and they've tried to make it much like that, 139 00:06:03,992 --> 00:06:06,742 like the best artist is the most expensive artist. 140 00:06:06,826 --> 00:06:08,450 Same thing. - Is that not true? 141 00:06:08,534 --> 00:06:11,075 - How could it be true? 142 00:06:11,158 --> 00:06:14,158 ♪ ♪ 143 00:06:14,242 --> 00:06:16,534 - There's a lot of money kicking around, 144 00:06:16,617 --> 00:06:19,200 and there is a limit to where you can put it. 145 00:06:19,283 --> 00:06:20,909 [opera music] 146 00:06:20,992 --> 00:06:23,325 To be an effective collector, 147 00:06:23,409 --> 00:06:26,075 deep down, you have to be shallow. 148 00:06:26,158 --> 00:06:28,701 You have to be a decorator. 149 00:06:28,784 --> 00:06:30,826 You want the thing to work with the rugs, 150 00:06:30,909 --> 00:06:33,033 and you want it to work with the furniture. 151 00:06:33,117 --> 00:06:35,992 And I notice different styles of collecting. 152 00:06:36,075 --> 00:06:37,659 There is the, uh, collector 153 00:06:37,742 --> 00:06:40,283 that is the wolf in sheep's clothing, 154 00:06:40,367 --> 00:06:44,033 and then there's the sheep in wolves' clothing. 155 00:06:44,117 --> 00:06:45,909 And everybody has their own style. 156 00:06:45,992 --> 00:06:47,409 - Which are you? - [laughs] 157 00:06:47,492 --> 00:06:51,075 That's good. I can switch, like the Donald. 158 00:06:51,158 --> 00:06:53,325 [laughs] It all depends. 159 00:06:53,409 --> 00:06:55,325 - How do you get this incredible collection? 160 00:06:55,409 --> 00:06:57,826 I mean, what is it-- what was it in you? 161 00:06:57,909 --> 00:07:00,033 - Okay, well, back in the '70s, 162 00:07:00,117 --> 00:07:01,701 Christie's had the Mondrian-- 163 00:07:01,784 --> 00:07:04,784 a beautiful, massive, perfect Mondrian. 164 00:07:04,867 --> 00:07:07,242 And I went to the auction house, and I bid it. 165 00:07:07,325 --> 00:07:09,117 I got it at 600,000, 166 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,534 which was the world record for Mondrian. 167 00:07:11,617 --> 00:07:16,242 And everybody wanted to know who that schmuck was 168 00:07:16,325 --> 00:07:21,283 from Chicago who overpaid for that over-painted Mondrian. 169 00:07:21,367 --> 00:07:23,867 And it put me on the map. [soft laugh] 170 00:07:23,951 --> 00:07:26,867 [dramatic music] 171 00:07:26,951 --> 00:07:29,158 ♪ ♪ 172 00:07:29,242 --> 00:07:32,033 - New York still is, in terms of the big auctions, 173 00:07:32,117 --> 00:07:34,200 the center of the art market, 174 00:07:34,283 --> 00:07:38,075 because big-ticket items are always sold in New York. 175 00:07:38,158 --> 00:07:41,033 But what has changed is that the art market 176 00:07:41,117 --> 00:07:43,033 has become totally global, and now you have 177 00:07:43,117 --> 00:07:45,117 collectors in all parts of the world 178 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,659 buying art by artists from all parts of the world. 179 00:07:48,742 --> 00:07:52,367 ♪ ♪ 180 00:07:52,450 --> 00:07:54,867 - There is no Golden Age without gold. 181 00:07:54,951 --> 00:07:55,951 [laughs] 182 00:07:56,033 --> 00:07:58,117 So if you didn't have 183 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:03,158 100 times more collectors than existed in the '70s, 184 00:08:03,242 --> 00:08:08,534 you wouldn't have 1,000 times more artists making art. 185 00:08:08,617 --> 00:08:10,784 And you-- of course, it's a bubble. 186 00:08:10,867 --> 00:08:13,200 And bubbles make beautiful things, 187 00:08:13,283 --> 00:08:17,200 and let's just try to keep it floating. 188 00:08:17,283 --> 00:08:18,701 Don't burst it. 189 00:08:18,784 --> 00:08:23,534 ♪ ♪ 190 00:08:23,617 --> 00:08:25,492 - Art fairs are the main events 191 00:08:25,575 --> 00:08:27,867 for the galleries and the dealers. 192 00:08:27,951 --> 00:08:31,575 Now you have quite a few big fairs around the world. 193 00:08:31,659 --> 00:08:33,325 Frieze that we are here for. 194 00:08:33,409 --> 00:08:34,450 Frieze, London. 195 00:08:34,534 --> 00:08:36,409 Art Basel in Basel, Hong Kong. 196 00:08:36,492 --> 00:08:39,367 Miami. You have Dubai, Istanbul. 197 00:08:39,450 --> 00:08:41,200 I mean, I could go on and on. 198 00:08:41,283 --> 00:08:43,701 Hey, hey, Neda, how are you? - I wanna ask you something. 199 00:08:43,784 --> 00:08:45,701 El Anatsui, I want to buy one. 200 00:08:45,784 --> 00:08:47,534 - Yes, I love El Anatsui. - Yeah, yeah. 201 00:08:47,617 --> 00:08:49,534 - And African art is going to go up and up, 202 00:08:49,617 --> 00:08:50,951 and I--I look forward to seeing it. 203 00:08:51,033 --> 00:08:53,242 I've loved Anatsui for quite a while. 204 00:08:53,325 --> 00:08:54,200 [laughs] 205 00:08:54,283 --> 00:08:55,992 - Wow, thanks! 206 00:08:58,367 --> 00:08:59,742 - Who's it by? 207 00:08:59,826 --> 00:09:02,909 - The unknown artist called Basquiat. 208 00:09:02,992 --> 00:09:04,992 He's one of the hottest things in the art market 209 00:09:05,075 --> 00:09:07,242 at the moment. 210 00:09:07,325 --> 00:09:09,409 - Look at this single boob. - Self-portrait. 211 00:09:09,492 --> 00:09:11,951 - The uni--yeah, self-portrait. Uniboob. 212 00:09:12,033 --> 00:09:13,659 "Girl In Bed," that's the maquette for girl-- 213 00:09:13,742 --> 00:09:15,033 I've sold that painting twice. 214 00:09:15,117 --> 00:09:16,575 - Have you bought anything today? 215 00:09:16,659 --> 00:09:17,951 - Yes. - You bought some-- 216 00:09:18,033 --> 00:09:19,742 - A few pieces--yes. - Wow. 217 00:09:19,826 --> 00:09:21,409 - And I would like some more. I want more. 218 00:09:21,492 --> 00:09:22,784 - It was what? - Always want more. 219 00:09:22,867 --> 00:09:25,283 I would like some more. A few more. 220 00:09:25,367 --> 00:09:28,325 - Wow. Alissa, who made this? 221 00:09:28,409 --> 00:09:31,909 - Francesca DiMattio. And only you get to touch. 222 00:09:31,992 --> 00:09:33,784 - Only I get to touch? - You get to do that. 223 00:09:33,867 --> 00:09:35,867 - Has this piece sold? - It is sold, Jerry. 224 00:09:35,951 --> 00:09:37,867 - For about how much, ballpark? 225 00:09:37,951 --> 00:09:40,659 - About 50. - $50,000. 226 00:09:40,742 --> 00:09:43,575 My guess is she gets 50% of that? 227 00:09:43,659 --> 00:09:45,617 - Absolutely, fair deal. 228 00:09:45,701 --> 00:09:47,659 - [whistling] 229 00:09:47,742 --> 00:09:49,701 - I don't see too many artists here. 230 00:09:49,784 --> 00:09:51,659 - Oh, artists shouldn't come to art fairs. 231 00:09:51,742 --> 00:09:53,283 Or they should, but they don't. 232 00:09:53,367 --> 00:09:55,867 I wouldn't come to an art fair if I didn't have to. 233 00:09:55,951 --> 00:10:00,367 In my part of the jungle, I'm mostly meeting people 234 00:10:00,450 --> 00:10:01,992 who are interested in art. 235 00:10:02,075 --> 00:10:04,534 Up in the higher reaches of the treetops 236 00:10:04,617 --> 00:10:06,158 there's a different ecosystem 237 00:10:06,242 --> 00:10:09,117 where art absolutely is an asset class. 238 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,617 That's essentially what the auctions have become. 239 00:10:11,701 --> 00:10:14,575 - Right. - A trading house for assets. 240 00:10:14,659 --> 00:10:17,575 [cell phone chiming] 241 00:10:17,659 --> 00:10:20,158 Excuse me. Hello? 242 00:10:20,242 --> 00:10:23,659 [dramatic music] 243 00:10:23,742 --> 00:10:30,575 ♪ ♪ 244 00:10:30,659 --> 00:10:33,617 - Okay, so this is a... 245 00:10:33,701 --> 00:10:35,117 That looks good all by itself. 246 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:36,701 It's gonna be hard to comp that, actually. 247 00:10:36,784 --> 00:10:38,325 ♪ ♪ 248 00:10:38,409 --> 00:10:41,242 - So this will be the catalog for the Ames Collection. 249 00:10:41,325 --> 00:10:44,701 Did you land that deal? - Yeah, Steven and Ann Ames. 250 00:10:44,784 --> 00:10:46,826 We don't get things of this caliber very often, 251 00:10:46,909 --> 00:10:48,283 so that makes it special. 252 00:10:48,367 --> 00:10:50,158 There's also a lot at stake. 253 00:10:50,242 --> 00:10:52,200 What's nice is everything in this picture is actually 254 00:10:52,283 --> 00:10:54,617 part of the sale, which is-- - Perfect. 255 00:10:54,701 --> 00:10:55,951 - Does it make you anxious 256 00:10:56,033 --> 00:10:58,117 when a big sale like this happens? 257 00:10:59,325 --> 00:11:01,242 - I'm usually very calm on the day of a sale. 258 00:11:01,325 --> 00:11:02,992 And it's not the part I like the most. 259 00:11:03,075 --> 00:11:05,117 - But your favorite part is what, of the whole thing? 260 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,117 Of this specific thing? 261 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,033 - The chase and the deal, probably. 262 00:11:12,117 --> 00:11:15,242 That's definitely... 263 00:11:17,075 --> 00:11:19,742 - [soft chuckle] - Yeah. 264 00:11:19,826 --> 00:11:22,409 Okay, Condo. 265 00:11:22,492 --> 00:11:24,242 He's a super disciple of Picasso, 266 00:11:24,325 --> 00:11:25,992 so we're trying to figure out how to comp it. 267 00:11:26,075 --> 00:11:28,117 And the idea is you always wanna comparative-image it 268 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,617 with something that becomes it and something that... 269 00:11:32,701 --> 00:11:34,117 - Elevates it. - Elevates--yeah. 270 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:35,575 I don't wanna be-- it's sort of marketing, 271 00:11:35,659 --> 00:11:36,826 but it's sort of art-- it's sort of 272 00:11:36,909 --> 00:11:38,367 the art-history marketing part. 273 00:11:38,450 --> 00:11:39,826 So getting your comps right is-- 274 00:11:39,909 --> 00:11:41,325 it's a way you show you're smart, 275 00:11:41,409 --> 00:11:43,409 but you can't be arrogant and cocky. 276 00:11:43,492 --> 00:11:48,409 George is definitely an artist who's a darling of the market. 277 00:11:48,492 --> 00:11:51,909 [dramatic music] 278 00:11:51,992 --> 00:11:54,826 - I don't really wanna know 100% what I'm gonna do 279 00:11:54,909 --> 00:11:56,200 until it's done. 280 00:11:56,283 --> 00:12:00,951 I just, like, add color very gradually. 281 00:12:01,033 --> 00:12:04,283 My favorite thing to do is get to the edge. 282 00:12:04,367 --> 00:12:06,742 - What was it that started you in the very beginning 283 00:12:06,826 --> 00:12:08,242 wanting to be an artist? 284 00:12:08,325 --> 00:12:10,409 - Well, I wasn't good at anything else. 285 00:12:10,492 --> 00:12:12,075 [laughs] 286 00:12:12,158 --> 00:12:13,742 And, I mean, I-- 287 00:12:13,826 --> 00:12:15,575 I could always draw better than everybody else, 288 00:12:15,659 --> 00:12:17,575 and so that was like, "Whoa, look at that." 289 00:12:17,659 --> 00:12:19,575 - Did your parents support you in that? 290 00:12:19,659 --> 00:12:20,742 - No. 291 00:12:22,450 --> 00:12:24,867 - Your photographs of your mother are unbelievable. 292 00:12:24,951 --> 00:12:27,534 - Oh, my mother didn't support me in anything. 293 00:12:27,617 --> 00:12:28,659 [laughs] 294 00:12:29,742 --> 00:12:33,826 - The money has never been a motivation for me. 295 00:12:33,909 --> 00:12:35,617 Oh, that's a no. [laughs] 296 00:12:35,701 --> 00:12:38,367 Especially coming from Nigeria, the thing that really 297 00:12:38,450 --> 00:12:41,075 did it for me was thinking about urgency, 298 00:12:41,158 --> 00:12:43,867 thinking of wanting to be more visible. 299 00:12:43,951 --> 00:12:46,158 ♪ ♪ 300 00:12:46,242 --> 00:12:48,617 - You know, the market is a sort of-- 301 00:12:48,701 --> 00:12:54,283 a separate sort of entity from the actual creation of art. 302 00:12:54,367 --> 00:12:57,367 It doesn't really have anything to do with art. 303 00:12:57,450 --> 00:13:00,117 It's, uh--it has to do with something else. 304 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,742 And I'm not sure 100% what it is, you know. 305 00:13:03,826 --> 00:13:06,075 - I don't have all the details in yet. 306 00:13:06,158 --> 00:13:07,325 - Still being worked on? 307 00:13:07,409 --> 00:13:08,826 - Yeah, but this is actually a person 308 00:13:08,909 --> 00:13:12,283 who has ruby-colored pubic hair. 309 00:13:12,367 --> 00:13:13,826 People come real close to buying them, 310 00:13:13,909 --> 00:13:15,283 and then they know what it is and they go, 311 00:13:15,367 --> 00:13:16,867 "Oh, I don't know." [laughs] 312 00:13:16,951 --> 00:13:18,492 - Really? 313 00:13:18,575 --> 00:13:19,951 - I don't care if they buy them. 314 00:13:20,033 --> 00:13:21,033 I just needed to make them. 315 00:13:21,117 --> 00:13:22,575 And my gallery would like it 316 00:13:22,659 --> 00:13:25,742 if I made much more sellable things. 317 00:13:25,826 --> 00:13:28,283 - So talk to me a little bit about the art market. 318 00:13:28,367 --> 00:13:30,283 - [laughs] It's too dangerous, 319 00:13:30,367 --> 00:13:32,158 you know, to even learn about it. 320 00:13:32,242 --> 00:13:34,033 I don't wanna know. 321 00:13:34,117 --> 00:13:35,367 ♪ ♪ 322 00:13:35,450 --> 00:13:36,951 - I love artists, 323 00:13:37,033 --> 00:13:38,909 but I don't know that 324 00:13:38,992 --> 00:13:41,701 the marketplace loves artists. 325 00:13:41,784 --> 00:13:47,033 And if we allow the marketplace to determine what is good, 326 00:13:47,117 --> 00:13:49,033 then there is no place for me. 327 00:13:49,117 --> 00:13:50,158 [ripping] 328 00:13:50,242 --> 00:13:51,742 - I always say to artists, 329 00:13:51,826 --> 00:13:53,659 "Don't be an artist unless 330 00:13:53,742 --> 00:13:56,951 you really, really, really, really, really have to." 331 00:13:57,033 --> 00:14:02,242 Because 99.999% of artists don't have money. 332 00:14:02,325 --> 00:14:03,534 It's that simple. 333 00:14:03,617 --> 00:14:07,826 Artists have to make an enemy of envy. 334 00:14:07,909 --> 00:14:11,784 They must do this or it will eat them alive. 335 00:14:12,659 --> 00:14:15,617 [soft orchestral music] 336 00:14:15,701 --> 00:14:20,867 ♪ ♪ 337 00:14:20,951 --> 00:14:23,033 - People say that the bunny is the most valuable 338 00:14:23,117 --> 00:14:24,575 Jeff Koons in existence. 339 00:14:24,659 --> 00:14:26,617 - Very likely. 340 00:14:26,701 --> 00:14:28,992 - When we saw this, I mean, 341 00:14:29,075 --> 00:14:31,033 we really wanted to have a "Rabbit." 342 00:14:31,117 --> 00:14:34,117 But he only made three plus the artist's proof. 343 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,951 And, of course, they were gone immediately. 344 00:14:38,033 --> 00:14:41,242 But, um, Stef always had his eye on it, 345 00:14:41,325 --> 00:14:44,367 and we had the opportunity-- when would you say? 346 00:14:44,450 --> 00:14:47,575 '90-something? - I bought it in 1991 for 945. 347 00:14:47,659 --> 00:14:49,784 - 945,000? - Yeah. 348 00:14:49,867 --> 00:14:51,617 - And it was a time that was--the market 349 00:14:51,701 --> 00:14:53,075 was not really very strong, 350 00:14:53,158 --> 00:14:54,742 and everybody was saying, "Oh, you're crazy. 351 00:14:54,826 --> 00:14:56,409 You're crazy paying that much for it." 352 00:14:56,492 --> 00:15:00,492 But Stef and I, we just felt so right that 353 00:15:00,575 --> 00:15:04,117 it was the right time to do it and the right time to buy it, 354 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,033 and no matter what the value, it was going to belong to us. 355 00:15:08,117 --> 00:15:10,075 And that was what-- the most important thing. 356 00:15:10,158 --> 00:15:11,617 - What--what would it be worth now? 357 00:15:11,701 --> 00:15:14,242 - $65 million. - Yes, yes, yes. 358 00:15:14,325 --> 00:15:16,701 So we snapped at it. [laughs] 359 00:15:16,784 --> 00:15:18,409 ♪ ♪ 360 00:15:18,492 --> 00:15:21,701 - This is a Warhol skull. - This is Warhol's "Skull." 361 00:15:21,784 --> 00:15:23,951 So there are certain code things that happen. 362 00:15:24,033 --> 00:15:26,367 One, it has to be juicy. 363 00:15:26,450 --> 00:15:28,992 You see the juice that he had here? 364 00:15:29,075 --> 00:15:31,575 And the other thing, the direction of the skull 365 00:15:31,659 --> 00:15:33,951 has to create a baby face. 366 00:15:34,033 --> 00:15:36,325 See that profile of the baby face? 367 00:15:36,409 --> 00:15:38,117 That is the important part of-- 368 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,534 - How do you find--I mean, important, says who? 369 00:15:40,617 --> 00:15:43,617 - Important to the art world, to the values. 370 00:15:43,701 --> 00:15:47,158 - To the--to your eye. - To the feinschmeckers. 371 00:15:47,242 --> 00:15:48,158 [laughs] 372 00:15:48,242 --> 00:15:52,075 [insects buzzing] 373 00:15:52,575 --> 00:15:56,992 - There are no rules about what is gonna be good 374 00:15:57,075 --> 00:16:00,325 and what is gonna be bad. 375 00:16:00,409 --> 00:16:02,992 Art doesn't give a shit. 376 00:16:03,075 --> 00:16:05,075 It never has. 377 00:16:05,158 --> 00:16:08,826 [Bach's "Sinfonia" from "BVW 42" playing] 378 00:16:08,909 --> 00:16:11,075 ♪ ♪ 379 00:16:11,158 --> 00:16:13,659 Why don't you go in first? Show everybody, and... 380 00:16:13,742 --> 00:16:14,992 ♪ ♪ 381 00:16:15,075 --> 00:16:19,617 Just--follow Paula. Yeah. 382 00:16:19,701 --> 00:16:21,617 - [soft chuckle] - It's good advice. 383 00:16:21,701 --> 00:16:23,534 [chuckles] 384 00:16:23,617 --> 00:16:30,742 ♪ ♪ 385 00:16:40,117 --> 00:16:41,909 - Is this all one continuous piece of canvas? 386 00:16:41,992 --> 00:16:44,951 - Yeah, I've painted that way since 1971. 387 00:16:45,033 --> 00:16:46,742 Yeah. 388 00:16:46,826 --> 00:16:50,117 I'm just working on this basically the whole thing 389 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,909 all the time, and, you know, 390 00:16:53,992 --> 00:16:55,617 putting stuff on. 391 00:16:56,117 --> 00:16:59,617 And now we're painting this. [chuckles] 392 00:17:01,992 --> 00:17:05,575 Most people think it's like putting makeup on. 393 00:17:05,659 --> 00:17:07,867 You know, you gotta be careful. 394 00:17:07,951 --> 00:17:09,534 Get close to a Rembrandt, 395 00:17:09,617 --> 00:17:11,867 and you see how quickly things were done. 396 00:17:11,951 --> 00:17:13,784 Flicks. Flick, flick, flick. 397 00:17:13,867 --> 00:17:15,492 Little flicks of color. 398 00:17:15,575 --> 00:17:17,158 - So when I say to people, 399 00:17:17,242 --> 00:17:18,867 "I wanna interview Larry Poons." 400 00:17:18,951 --> 00:17:19,867 - Mm-hmm. 401 00:17:19,951 --> 00:17:21,200 - Some people say-- 402 00:17:21,283 --> 00:17:23,283 - Why the fuck you want to do that? 403 00:17:23,367 --> 00:17:25,075 Yeah. - Well, what happened to him? 404 00:17:25,158 --> 00:17:26,325 Where--where is he? - Yeah, I know. 405 00:17:26,450 --> 00:17:28,909 They think I'm dead. Yeah. 406 00:17:28,951 --> 00:17:30,492 They thought-- a lot of people have thought 407 00:17:30,617 --> 00:17:33,117 I was dead for a long time. 408 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:34,325 You know. 409 00:17:34,450 --> 00:17:36,158 It's not my fault. 410 00:17:37,450 --> 00:17:42,617 My only defense against fate is color. 411 00:17:43,992 --> 00:17:46,909 [lively classical music] 412 00:17:46,992 --> 00:17:54,158 ♪ ♪ 413 00:18:01,575 --> 00:18:04,158 - All of these images that are in this room, you know, 414 00:18:04,242 --> 00:18:07,283 are connected to art history, and they're created through 415 00:18:07,367 --> 00:18:12,283 systems that I'm responsible for each and every mark. 416 00:18:12,367 --> 00:18:14,325 Having the correct color there, 417 00:18:14,409 --> 00:18:17,492 and everything numbered and using the maps so that 418 00:18:17,575 --> 00:18:19,575 when we look at this, everything-- 419 00:18:19,659 --> 00:18:22,367 I'm completely responsible for. 420 00:18:24,075 --> 00:18:26,534 - So it doesn't matter that you don't physically 421 00:18:26,617 --> 00:18:28,200 touch the canvas with a brush? 422 00:18:28,283 --> 00:18:31,909 - Well, uh, I am, in a way, physically doing it, 423 00:18:31,992 --> 00:18:34,283 but it's physically through all these systems. 424 00:18:34,367 --> 00:18:37,450 But it's like articulating your fingers and, you know, 425 00:18:37,534 --> 00:18:39,409 your mind is telling the finger to do this. 426 00:18:39,492 --> 00:18:42,033 So at the end of the day, that mark is as if 427 00:18:42,117 --> 00:18:44,701 I would sit here and do it myself. 428 00:18:44,784 --> 00:18:47,867 Now, if I would do this, the only thing 429 00:18:47,951 --> 00:18:49,909 that I'd be able to accomplish next year 430 00:18:49,992 --> 00:18:51,617 would be just creating this painting. 431 00:18:51,701 --> 00:18:53,951 I wouldn't be able to do anything else. 432 00:18:54,033 --> 00:18:58,742 ♪ ♪ 433 00:18:58,826 --> 00:19:00,701 - 8 to 12 million. 434 00:19:00,784 --> 00:19:02,617 Okay, so this is a really interesting picture. 435 00:19:02,701 --> 00:19:05,492 This, we just hit it. This is like a money shot. 436 00:19:05,575 --> 00:19:07,826 When you have the painting you're selling 437 00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:09,826 and then a picture of the artist 438 00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:11,200 standing in front of the painting. 439 00:19:11,283 --> 00:19:13,909 - [laughs] - Bill de Kooning, winner. 440 00:19:13,992 --> 00:19:15,951 - Holy Grail of comps. - Holy Grail of comps. 441 00:19:16,033 --> 00:19:17,617 That's as good as it gets. 442 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,534 I don't like these comps. 443 00:19:20,617 --> 00:19:23,909 Comp can't overwhelm the image. 444 00:19:23,992 --> 00:19:25,867 Like this, the fantastic Matisse. 445 00:19:25,951 --> 00:19:27,909 Yeah, boy, you wanna know what that would be worth today? 446 00:19:27,992 --> 00:19:29,450 - Oh, my--yeah, what would that be worth? 447 00:19:29,534 --> 00:19:31,367 - Forget about it. 448 00:19:31,450 --> 00:19:32,951 A couple hundo. A lot. 449 00:19:33,033 --> 00:19:35,158 - A couple hundred million? - I'm thinking, yeah. 450 00:19:35,242 --> 00:19:36,659 Yeah, definitely. - Sure. 451 00:19:36,742 --> 00:19:38,909 - Like, pricele--"priceless," 452 00:19:38,992 --> 00:19:41,075 and then you sort of work backwards, so... 453 00:19:41,158 --> 00:19:43,784 - Are there still masterpieces being made today? 454 00:19:43,867 --> 00:19:46,534 - Oh, I gotta believe. I mean, yeah. 455 00:19:46,617 --> 00:19:48,367 Yeah, I mean, I have to believe there are. 456 00:19:48,450 --> 00:19:51,409 I wouldn't even question that. What kind of question is that? 457 00:19:51,492 --> 00:19:53,951 It's like a--that's like, "Do you believe in the future?" 458 00:19:54,033 --> 00:19:56,992 That's what you just asked me. Do you believe in the future? 459 00:19:57,075 --> 00:19:58,742 No, done, we're done. Let's just go. We're not-- 460 00:19:58,826 --> 00:20:00,409 Yeah, of course I believe in the future. 461 00:20:00,492 --> 00:20:02,325 Of course I believe great things are being made today. 462 00:20:02,409 --> 00:20:04,409 [cell phone chiming] London calling. 463 00:20:04,492 --> 00:20:06,450 This is the time of day where London calls. 464 00:20:06,534 --> 00:20:07,951 Hey, Alex. 465 00:20:08,033 --> 00:20:09,158 How late can I call you? 466 00:20:09,242 --> 00:20:10,951 [soft dramatic music] 467 00:20:11,033 --> 00:20:14,117 - In the end of the last century, 468 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,283 uh, we sat around at Christie's trying to think what the hell 469 00:20:17,367 --> 00:20:19,283 we were gonna do next, because frankly... 470 00:20:19,367 --> 00:20:20,951 [indistinct auctioneering] 471 00:20:21,033 --> 00:20:23,450 Supply of old masterpieces wasn't just limited. 472 00:20:23,534 --> 00:20:25,784 It was diminishing. 473 00:20:25,867 --> 00:20:28,617 And almost all our markets and all our businesses 474 00:20:28,701 --> 00:20:30,158 were getting smaller. 475 00:20:30,242 --> 00:20:31,409 - ...million dollars. 476 00:20:31,492 --> 00:20:33,659 - Thank you very much. 477 00:20:33,742 --> 00:20:36,283 - With new collectors coming into the market 478 00:20:36,367 --> 00:20:38,575 trying to build collections, 479 00:20:38,659 --> 00:20:42,367 younger people enriched beyond imagination 480 00:20:42,450 --> 00:20:45,659 with a thirst for the new and the loud, 481 00:20:45,742 --> 00:20:48,492 where were they gonna go? 482 00:20:48,575 --> 00:20:51,534 [David Bowie's "Fashion"] 483 00:20:51,617 --> 00:20:57,867 ♪ ♪ 484 00:20:57,951 --> 00:20:59,534 In terms of contemporary art, 485 00:20:59,617 --> 00:21:01,492 there was a lot of production going on, 486 00:21:01,575 --> 00:21:04,033 and the supply issue wasn't gonna be a problem. 487 00:21:04,117 --> 00:21:05,992 ♪ ♪ 488 00:21:06,075 --> 00:21:08,409 You know, the supply was almost infinite. 489 00:21:08,492 --> 00:21:10,075 - ♪ I don't know its name ♪ 490 00:21:10,158 --> 00:21:14,575 ♪ ♪ 491 00:21:14,659 --> 00:21:17,867 - I don't think anyone really understood just how important, 492 00:21:17,951 --> 00:21:22,951 um, contemporary art was going to become. 493 00:21:23,033 --> 00:21:26,409 But it would basically overshadow almost all other 494 00:21:26,492 --> 00:21:28,033 collecting areas in the art market. 495 00:21:28,117 --> 00:21:30,200 - ♪ Fashion! Turn to the left ♪ 496 00:21:30,283 --> 00:21:32,450 ♪ Fashion! Turn to the right ♪ 497 00:21:32,534 --> 00:21:36,992 ♪ Ooh, fashion! ♪ 498 00:21:37,075 --> 00:21:40,075 ♪ We are the goon squad and we're coming to town ♪ 499 00:21:40,158 --> 00:21:41,200 - The money is 500 00:21:41,283 --> 00:21:43,701 an inevitable consequence 501 00:21:43,784 --> 00:21:46,951 of demand and supply. 502 00:21:47,033 --> 00:21:49,742 And so there's a temptation for the artists 503 00:21:49,826 --> 00:21:52,951 to overproduce and to push. 504 00:21:53,033 --> 00:21:55,617 ♪ ♪ 505 00:21:55,701 --> 00:22:02,033 - [vocalizing] 506 00:22:02,117 --> 00:22:03,242 ♪ Fashion ♪ 507 00:22:03,325 --> 00:22:04,617 ♪ ♪ 508 00:22:04,701 --> 00:22:08,951 [vocalizing] 509 00:22:17,283 --> 00:22:21,867 - My brain feels tapped out since my last show. 510 00:22:21,951 --> 00:22:25,784 Um, but I don't want to just make an exact replica, 511 00:22:25,867 --> 00:22:28,075 because it just will be too boring. 512 00:22:28,158 --> 00:22:30,200 So I tried to change the colors, 513 00:22:30,283 --> 00:22:34,033 but even that is not enough to keep me engaged. 514 00:22:35,575 --> 00:22:37,784 My production is very low. 515 00:22:37,867 --> 00:22:41,409 Um, so, in a good year, I make 12 works. 516 00:22:41,492 --> 00:22:44,242 Um, in a year like this where I just had a baby, 517 00:22:44,325 --> 00:22:47,617 I might end up making six to eight works. 518 00:22:47,701 --> 00:22:50,784 If I'm thinking of wanting these works to be seen, 519 00:22:50,867 --> 00:22:55,033 there's a temptation to get them out fast. 520 00:22:55,117 --> 00:22:58,659 But if I speed up the production of the work, 521 00:22:58,742 --> 00:23:03,200 it will take away from all that behind the scenes 522 00:23:03,283 --> 00:23:06,242 that makes the work as rich as it is. 523 00:23:07,826 --> 00:23:09,784 - I'm thinking... 524 00:23:09,867 --> 00:23:11,742 Big. All right. 525 00:23:11,826 --> 00:23:15,450 [Little Walter's "You Better Watch Yourself"] 526 00:23:15,534 --> 00:23:17,575 Ooh, forget how these things break. 527 00:23:17,659 --> 00:23:20,117 I throw these things out like that. 528 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,617 ♪ ♪ 529 00:23:21,701 --> 00:23:23,617 - ♪ You better watch yourself ♪ 530 00:23:23,701 --> 00:23:25,617 ♪ ♪ 531 00:23:25,701 --> 00:23:27,492 ♪ You better watch yourself ♪ 532 00:23:27,575 --> 00:23:30,242 ♪ 'Cause I've got my eyes on you ♪ 533 00:23:30,325 --> 00:23:32,701 ♪ ♪ 534 00:23:32,784 --> 00:23:35,951 ♪ You can steal my love ♪ - He's very persistent. 535 00:23:36,033 --> 00:23:38,492 - This particular fella? - This guy. 536 00:23:38,575 --> 00:23:39,826 He's always sort of there 537 00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:42,992 as a kind of alter ego. 538 00:23:43,075 --> 00:23:44,826 - There are people out there who say, you know, 539 00:23:44,909 --> 00:23:47,826 "Well, for the market, it'd be better if George Condo 540 00:23:47,909 --> 00:23:49,659 did a little less. He does so much." 541 00:23:49,742 --> 00:23:53,826 - I think that people say that all the time to living artists. 542 00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:55,826 "Oh, man, you know, you're doing too much." 543 00:23:55,909 --> 00:23:59,701 But, you know, if you think about a guy like, you know, 544 00:23:59,784 --> 00:24:01,534 whose work you really like, you think, 545 00:24:01,617 --> 00:24:05,534 "Are you--would it have been great had Monet done, like, 546 00:24:05,617 --> 00:24:07,325 3,000 less paintings?" You know? 547 00:24:07,409 --> 00:24:10,659 Or Picasso had done 500 less, or... 548 00:24:10,742 --> 00:24:13,117 You don't have to, like, sell everything you do. 549 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:14,659 It's not about that. 550 00:24:14,742 --> 00:24:16,909 It's just about making sure that you never sort of 551 00:24:16,992 --> 00:24:20,283 deprive yourself of an inspiration as an artist. 552 00:24:20,367 --> 00:24:22,701 - ♪ 'Cause I've got my eyes on you ♪ 553 00:24:22,784 --> 00:24:25,701 ♪ ♪ 554 00:24:25,784 --> 00:24:29,659 - Right now we have-- we have five Condos. 555 00:24:29,742 --> 00:24:32,200 - You currently have five-- - Five Condos. 556 00:24:32,283 --> 00:24:36,826 By having parameters, my life is a lot easier. 557 00:24:36,909 --> 00:24:38,075 - Which parameters? 558 00:24:38,158 --> 00:24:41,909 - Well, 200 works, 40 artists. 559 00:24:41,992 --> 00:24:43,534 - That's it? - That's it. 560 00:24:43,617 --> 00:24:45,033 - Arbitrary rule? You just came up with it? 561 00:24:45,117 --> 00:24:47,325 - No--well, yes, it's sort of arbitrary, 562 00:24:47,409 --> 00:24:50,117 but when I try--I mentioned that to a very important 563 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,409 hedge fund guy about five, six years ago, he smiled. 564 00:24:54,492 --> 00:24:56,075 He hadn't been doing any collecting 565 00:24:56,158 --> 00:24:57,200 but is collecting now. 566 00:24:57,283 --> 00:24:58,659 He says, "That's interesting. 567 00:24:58,742 --> 00:25:02,409 My analysts can only follow about 40 stocks." 568 00:25:02,492 --> 00:25:04,951 And the other thing helps is to know 569 00:25:05,033 --> 00:25:07,701 what you really need in a way, you know? 570 00:25:07,784 --> 00:25:10,450 I needed these lemons, I needed these birds, 571 00:25:10,534 --> 00:25:12,575 because now if I'm gonna do Rondinone, 572 00:25:12,659 --> 00:25:14,492 I have to have a little garden here. 573 00:25:16,283 --> 00:25:19,701 And then the clown shoes, I paid 270 for them. 574 00:25:19,784 --> 00:25:21,659 I traded. - How does that work? 575 00:25:21,742 --> 00:25:23,325 - I exchanged it for another work. 576 00:25:23,409 --> 00:25:25,575 - You don't write checks? - I try not to. 577 00:25:25,659 --> 00:25:27,450 [laughs] - So you don't use money? 578 00:25:27,534 --> 00:25:30,283 - Usually an official exchange, and it's all done, 579 00:25:30,367 --> 00:25:32,075 uh, with paperwork. - Hmm. 580 00:25:32,158 --> 00:25:34,992 - You know, some people think that, uh, 581 00:25:35,075 --> 00:25:37,659 that Uncle Sam is not getting his cut, 582 00:25:37,742 --> 00:25:39,117 which is probably true. 583 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,242 But that's also true in real estate. 584 00:25:41,325 --> 00:25:44,117 And as long as the laws are there to do it, 585 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,784 it's a good way to, uh, build a collection. 586 00:25:47,867 --> 00:25:49,575 That's the art of the deal. 587 00:25:49,659 --> 00:25:52,117 Well, let's try what happened in '16. 588 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,200 [mouse clicking] 589 00:25:55,075 --> 00:25:57,992 Oh, oh, '16 was really busy. 590 00:25:58,075 --> 00:26:03,367 Glenn Brown, Maurizio Cattelan, Jeff Koons, Richard Prince. 591 00:26:03,450 --> 00:26:05,117 All the usual suspects. 592 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,659 - What did you buy from Jeff Koons? 593 00:26:06,742 --> 00:26:10,784 - Jeff Koons was the Courbet Sleep. 594 00:26:10,867 --> 00:26:13,033 - Oh, the "Gazing Ball"? - Yeah, the "Gazing Ball." 595 00:26:13,117 --> 00:26:15,033 - What--what did the "Gazing Ball" cost? 596 00:26:15,117 --> 00:26:17,992 - That was-- they were $2 1/2 million. 597 00:26:18,075 --> 00:26:19,283 They were modestly priced. 598 00:26:19,367 --> 00:26:22,701 [quirky orchestral music] 599 00:26:22,784 --> 00:26:24,826 - If you look here at the "Gazing Ball," 600 00:26:24,909 --> 00:26:27,492 it's reflecting us right now, right here. 601 00:26:27,575 --> 00:26:30,325 So this is the right here, right now. 602 00:26:30,409 --> 00:26:32,826 Then there's, like, this interface where 603 00:26:32,909 --> 00:26:35,492 the painting is reflected into the ball. 604 00:26:35,575 --> 00:26:37,325 You kind of enter into the painting, 605 00:26:37,409 --> 00:26:39,033 then you go into the realm of the eternal. 606 00:26:39,117 --> 00:26:42,367 You go into this type of connectivity of the past. 607 00:26:42,450 --> 00:26:45,617 It's telling you everything it can about where you are 608 00:26:45,701 --> 00:26:48,200 in the universe right at this moment. 609 00:26:48,283 --> 00:26:49,575 It's generous. 610 00:26:49,659 --> 00:26:51,534 And it comes back to how you interact 611 00:26:51,617 --> 00:26:54,367 with yourself and how you interact with others. 612 00:26:54,450 --> 00:26:57,242 It's all metaphor. Metaphor. 613 00:26:57,325 --> 00:26:58,909 Everything's metaphor. 614 00:26:58,992 --> 00:27:00,367 ♪ ♪ 615 00:27:00,450 --> 00:27:04,784 - Gazing is essential in looking at visual art. 616 00:27:04,867 --> 00:27:08,117 And the notion to have a ball in the backyard that you can 617 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,117 gaze at--maybe smoke a pipe and gazing at the ball-- 618 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,575 is absolutely how you enjoy art. 619 00:27:14,659 --> 00:27:16,033 You gaze at it. 620 00:27:16,117 --> 00:27:19,075 You can look at it, but gazing is somehow 621 00:27:19,158 --> 00:27:21,742 nobler than just gawking. 622 00:27:21,826 --> 00:27:22,826 ♪ ♪ 623 00:27:22,909 --> 00:27:24,367 This is the irony. 624 00:27:24,450 --> 00:27:26,742 I can look at something that's totally contemporary 625 00:27:26,826 --> 00:27:28,534 and people get ticked off because, 626 00:27:28,617 --> 00:27:29,992 what am I looking at? 627 00:27:30,075 --> 00:27:32,158 And that's a real question. But never mind. 628 00:27:32,242 --> 00:27:33,992 I have a Courbet. [soft chuckle] 629 00:27:34,075 --> 00:27:37,158 So I have the guilty pleasure of enjoying something 630 00:27:37,242 --> 00:27:39,242 which would be very mundane. 631 00:27:39,325 --> 00:27:42,158 You know, a knockoff doesn't get you a lot of credit 632 00:27:42,242 --> 00:27:45,409 as an art collector, because anybody can do that. 633 00:27:45,492 --> 00:27:49,409 But put a gazing ball on it, and presto. 634 00:27:49,492 --> 00:27:50,659 [chuckles] 635 00:27:50,742 --> 00:27:57,826 ♪ ♪ 636 00:28:04,492 --> 00:28:07,409 - I don't like this man's relentless and honest 637 00:28:07,492 --> 00:28:09,701 and bold stare at me. 638 00:28:11,575 --> 00:28:13,242 Someone said to me once, you know, 639 00:28:13,325 --> 00:28:16,617 "The work of art is not the artist, 640 00:28:16,701 --> 00:28:18,909 but the artist is the work of art." 641 00:28:18,992 --> 00:28:21,742 And that's a very mystical saying, 642 00:28:21,826 --> 00:28:24,450 but what I think that means is only Rembrandt 643 00:28:24,534 --> 00:28:26,492 could have made this picture. 644 00:28:26,575 --> 00:28:29,867 This is an aged artist who's showing us his flesh 645 00:28:29,951 --> 00:28:33,617 and his world--worldly scars and beatings he's taken, 646 00:28:33,701 --> 00:28:37,283 not just as a person, but as an artist. 647 00:28:37,367 --> 00:28:42,367 It makes you think about life in the raw, you know? 648 00:28:42,450 --> 00:28:46,033 And I think that paintings, when they're at their greatest, 649 00:28:46,117 --> 00:28:47,659 are making demands on us 650 00:28:47,742 --> 00:28:50,325 and it's easier for us to just walk away. 651 00:28:50,409 --> 00:28:53,409 Can you imagine what it would be like to have this 652 00:28:53,492 --> 00:28:56,909 in one's house and how irradiated one would feel 653 00:28:56,992 --> 00:28:59,158 as one sat down for breakfast 654 00:28:59,242 --> 00:29:01,575 with the sports page and Special K, you know? 655 00:29:01,659 --> 00:29:06,492 It would just be a--such an overpowering, sacred presence. 656 00:29:06,575 --> 00:29:09,492 [somber piano music] 657 00:29:09,575 --> 00:29:16,701 ♪ ♪ 658 00:29:20,075 --> 00:29:22,492 I don't even, um, try to contemplate 659 00:29:22,575 --> 00:29:24,867 what these things would be worth. 660 00:29:24,951 --> 00:29:26,659 ♪ ♪ 661 00:29:26,742 --> 00:29:30,492 The--the pricelessness that makes for price in the world. 662 00:29:30,575 --> 00:29:33,701 ♪ ♪ 663 00:29:33,784 --> 00:29:38,492 This Vermeer, for example, has got it all over, 664 00:29:38,575 --> 00:29:42,033 every evaluation, professorial or commercial, 665 00:29:42,117 --> 00:29:44,200 that could ever be put upon it, 666 00:29:44,283 --> 00:29:46,909 because it deals in what used to be called 667 00:29:46,992 --> 00:29:51,701 in times less defeated, uh, than ours, "the soul." 668 00:29:51,784 --> 00:29:53,534 ♪ ♪ 669 00:29:53,617 --> 00:29:56,951 But it's a pie in the sky to believe that this is 670 00:29:57,033 --> 00:30:00,534 to be separated out from a culture that values things, 671 00:30:00,617 --> 00:30:04,075 that values materials, and that even can put a value 672 00:30:04,158 --> 00:30:08,909 on that which is immaterial, like light itself. 673 00:30:08,992 --> 00:30:12,033 [dramatic orchestral music] 674 00:30:12,117 --> 00:30:18,575 ♪ ♪ 675 00:30:18,659 --> 00:30:21,867 - I gotta think about this really hard. 676 00:30:21,951 --> 00:30:24,117 I think we're not making virtue enough of the red. 677 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:25,659 So-- - Yeah. 678 00:30:25,742 --> 00:30:27,409 We were playing around with the idea of, like, 679 00:30:27,492 --> 00:30:29,367 a shaft of light. 680 00:30:29,450 --> 00:30:32,158 Something with, uh, how it's-- - Caravaggio-esque. 681 00:30:32,242 --> 00:30:34,659 - Yeah. - This is a masterpiece. 682 00:30:34,742 --> 00:30:38,409 It could be sort of something va-va-voom, sexy. 683 00:30:38,492 --> 00:30:40,075 Richter's just got it. We could just-- 684 00:30:40,158 --> 00:30:42,075 Everybody knows this is greatness. 685 00:30:42,158 --> 00:30:43,951 There's two in this collection of, 686 00:30:44,033 --> 00:30:46,242 I would say, equal caliber. 687 00:30:46,325 --> 00:30:48,826 This is where Richter's really like Rothko. 688 00:30:48,909 --> 00:30:52,575 Because this one is, like, exuberant and alive and sexy 689 00:30:52,659 --> 00:30:55,158 and, like, juicy and life-giving. 690 00:30:55,242 --> 00:30:57,867 And then the other one in this grouping, 691 00:30:57,951 --> 00:30:59,784 which I'll find in a moment... 692 00:31:00,992 --> 00:31:02,283 Oh. - Mm-hmm. 693 00:31:02,367 --> 00:31:05,283 - I mean, this picture is, like, so moody 694 00:31:05,367 --> 00:31:06,742 and psychological. - It is so dark. 695 00:31:06,826 --> 00:31:08,701 - Like, it is such an interior mental-- 696 00:31:08,784 --> 00:31:10,617 - Really dark. - Well, this one is body. 697 00:31:10,701 --> 00:31:12,951 The big red one is body. And this one is soul. 698 00:31:13,033 --> 00:31:15,784 So then that reminds me of Rothko because Rothko has 699 00:31:15,867 --> 00:31:17,784 paintings that are very physical and bodily 700 00:31:17,867 --> 00:31:19,659 and some that are more psychological and soulful. 701 00:31:19,742 --> 00:31:20,826 In his case, it was a dark soul. 702 00:31:20,909 --> 00:31:22,450 - Rothko? - Yeah. 703 00:31:22,534 --> 00:31:23,951 As are most people who commit suicide 704 00:31:24,033 --> 00:31:25,117 at one point or another. 705 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,200 Um, yeah, I mean, this-- 706 00:31:27,283 --> 00:31:29,325 living with a picture like this could change your life, 707 00:31:29,409 --> 00:31:30,492 if you let it. 708 00:31:30,575 --> 00:31:32,784 - How could it change your life? 709 00:31:32,867 --> 00:31:36,575 - I mean, very few of us live with such majesty. 710 00:31:36,659 --> 00:31:38,325 Truly. 711 00:31:38,409 --> 00:31:39,575 Gerhard Richter is probably 712 00:31:39,659 --> 00:31:41,575 the greatest living European artist. 713 00:31:41,659 --> 00:31:43,909 I mean, these are very-- these are very, very important 714 00:31:43,992 --> 00:31:45,701 pictures to come for sale. 715 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,033 - It's incredibly exciting to have these two... 716 00:31:49,117 --> 00:31:50,450 - It's cool, right? - In the sale. 717 00:31:50,534 --> 00:31:51,826 - We should invite him to the sale. 718 00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:53,409 - You should. - Believe me, dude, 719 00:31:53,492 --> 00:31:54,784 dude, he is not coming, okay? 720 00:31:54,867 --> 00:31:56,492 Like, I'm sure of that, okay? He's old guard. 721 00:31:56,575 --> 00:31:57,826 He doesn't like this sort of thing. 722 00:31:57,909 --> 00:32:00,951 He doesn't like the selling of his works. 723 00:32:01,033 --> 00:32:03,909 This is the detail of this Richter called "Ziege," 724 00:32:03,992 --> 00:32:05,367 which means goat. 725 00:32:05,450 --> 00:32:07,283 That's the detail of that painting, 726 00:32:07,367 --> 00:32:08,826 and this is a very famous painting 727 00:32:08,909 --> 00:32:11,242 called "Police Gazette," 728 00:32:11,325 --> 00:32:13,325 which is a de Kooning from 1955. 729 00:32:13,409 --> 00:32:14,492 - Wasn't that de Kooning 730 00:32:14,575 --> 00:32:16,075 in the Scull auction? - Right. 731 00:32:16,158 --> 00:32:18,492 A very important defining event in the birth of 732 00:32:18,575 --> 00:32:20,325 the contemporary art market as we know it 733 00:32:20,409 --> 00:32:22,033 was the Scull sale. 734 00:32:22,117 --> 00:32:23,492 Robert Scull, who was 735 00:32:23,575 --> 00:32:25,701 a player in the New York art world 736 00:32:25,784 --> 00:32:27,992 in the '60s and '70s-- he was sort of like 737 00:32:28,075 --> 00:32:30,450 an original financier in the art market-- 738 00:32:30,534 --> 00:32:33,992 decided to do a sale from his collection of living artists. 739 00:32:34,075 --> 00:32:35,617 - How are you, baby? - All right, darling. 740 00:32:35,701 --> 00:32:37,784 [both kiss] - How's everything? 741 00:32:37,867 --> 00:32:40,075 - Record numbers of art dealers, collectors, 742 00:32:40,158 --> 00:32:42,867 and connoisseurs filed into the Parke-Bernet Gallery 743 00:32:42,951 --> 00:32:45,617 for what was billed as the most important auction 744 00:32:45,701 --> 00:32:47,909 of post-World War II American art, 745 00:32:47,992 --> 00:32:50,075 all from the collection of taxi fleet owner 746 00:32:50,158 --> 00:32:52,909 Robert Scull and his wife, Ethel. 747 00:32:52,992 --> 00:32:54,617 - Robert Scull was the personage, 748 00:32:54,701 --> 00:32:56,242 and everybody talked about him. 749 00:32:56,325 --> 00:32:58,867 He was a guy that-- he was a bargain hunter, 750 00:32:58,951 --> 00:33:00,659 that he wanted to always bypass 751 00:33:00,742 --> 00:33:02,492 the dealers and start doing 752 00:33:02,575 --> 00:33:04,492 business with the artists directly. 753 00:33:04,575 --> 00:33:06,742 - I'm--I think it would do some good, Leo. 754 00:33:06,826 --> 00:33:08,534 I think it's going to be-- - Yes, sure. 755 00:33:08,617 --> 00:33:12,033 - He was a rainmaker in the art world, in that sense, 756 00:33:12,117 --> 00:33:16,575 where people that respected him decided that 757 00:33:16,659 --> 00:33:20,117 if he liked something, it was worth liking. 758 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,242 I mean, we're lemmings. [laughs] 759 00:33:22,325 --> 00:33:24,325 In the art world, there's a lot of followers. 760 00:33:24,409 --> 00:33:27,325 A few leaders and a lot of followers. 761 00:33:27,409 --> 00:33:31,158 And--which is okay if you follow the right leader. 762 00:33:31,242 --> 00:33:33,450 [laughs] 763 00:33:33,534 --> 00:33:35,742 - When your husband would come home with some of these, 764 00:33:35,826 --> 00:33:38,409 uh, peculiar things, didn't all your friends 765 00:33:38,492 --> 00:33:40,409 laugh at you and think you were crazy to have them? 766 00:33:40,492 --> 00:33:42,575 - Yes, they--they considered us freaks. 767 00:33:42,659 --> 00:33:43,909 You know, we were always pointed at. 768 00:33:43,992 --> 00:33:45,659 The museum, at dinner parties. 769 00:33:45,742 --> 00:33:46,909 You know, "Those two people, 770 00:33:46,992 --> 00:33:48,742 they collect that terrible art," 771 00:33:48,826 --> 00:33:51,242 you know, and we just ignored them. 772 00:33:51,325 --> 00:33:53,617 - Ownership is involvement. 773 00:33:53,701 --> 00:33:56,534 Ownership is-- acquisition is involvement. 774 00:33:56,617 --> 00:33:59,617 And with art, it's probably the most, uh, 775 00:33:59,701 --> 00:34:01,367 exciting kind of involvement. 776 00:34:01,450 --> 00:34:06,117 Of course, owning a nice share of IBM is an involvement too. 777 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,617 [indistinct chatter] 778 00:34:07,701 --> 00:34:09,492 That Poons, you've never seen it. 779 00:34:09,575 --> 00:34:11,951 That Poons I bought, I don't think you remember it. 780 00:34:12,033 --> 00:34:13,158 Excuse me. 781 00:34:14,534 --> 00:34:15,867 That Poons knocked me out. 782 00:34:15,951 --> 00:34:17,283 I've never seen it stretched since the-- 783 00:34:17,367 --> 00:34:18,450 I bought it. - You're kidding. 784 00:34:18,534 --> 00:34:19,909 - No. - Oh. 785 00:34:19,992 --> 00:34:22,242 - I had never been to an art auction. 786 00:34:22,325 --> 00:34:24,117 In fact, I've only been to one, 787 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,283 which was the Scull auction. 788 00:34:26,367 --> 00:34:27,617 I just couldn't believe this. 789 00:34:27,701 --> 00:34:29,742 I mean, it was, uh-- the idea that 790 00:34:29,826 --> 00:34:31,450 art was being put on the auction block 791 00:34:31,534 --> 00:34:32,701 like a piece of meat. 792 00:34:32,784 --> 00:34:34,617 It was just extraordinary to me. 793 00:34:34,701 --> 00:34:37,075 I mean, this auction had very high prices 794 00:34:37,158 --> 00:34:39,450 for the first time for contemporary art. 795 00:34:39,534 --> 00:34:42,409 And I remember that Rauschenberg was there. 796 00:34:42,492 --> 00:34:46,701 Uh, and he, uh-- he was really incensed, 797 00:34:46,784 --> 00:34:48,534 because the artists got nothing out of this. 798 00:34:48,617 --> 00:34:51,325 The artists got the $600 they were paid in the first place. 799 00:34:51,409 --> 00:34:53,242 It was totally p-- totally, totally, 800 00:34:53,325 --> 00:34:54,701 totally pivotal moment. 801 00:34:54,784 --> 00:34:56,367 Suddenly there was the realization 802 00:34:56,450 --> 00:34:57,909 because of the prices 803 00:34:57,992 --> 00:35:01,033 that these works of art by living artists got 804 00:35:01,117 --> 00:35:05,409 that you could make money by buying low and selling high. 805 00:35:05,492 --> 00:35:08,659 [Stephen Emil Dudas and Mark G. Hart's "All in Time"] 806 00:35:08,742 --> 00:35:12,659 ♪ ♪ 807 00:35:12,742 --> 00:35:18,617 - ♪ Reset your soul remind your mind ♪ 808 00:35:18,701 --> 00:35:20,367 ♪ ♪ 809 00:35:20,450 --> 00:35:24,450 ♪ You just keep searching for signs ♪ 810 00:35:24,534 --> 00:35:27,867 [indistinct auctioneering] 811 00:35:27,951 --> 00:35:31,367 - ♪ You will find ♪ 812 00:35:31,450 --> 00:35:32,951 ♪ All in time ♪ 813 00:35:33,033 --> 00:35:35,659 - $135,000... 814 00:35:35,742 --> 00:35:37,909 $130,000. Now 180. 815 00:35:37,992 --> 00:35:39,367 At 180,000. 816 00:35:39,450 --> 00:35:41,534 [gavel bangs] Sold, 200,000... 817 00:35:41,617 --> 00:35:43,492 [applause] 818 00:35:43,575 --> 00:35:44,909 - I have been crying. 819 00:35:44,992 --> 00:35:48,033 - Robert Rauschenberg. Let's go. 820 00:35:48,117 --> 00:35:50,701 - For Christ's sake, you didn't even send me flowers. 821 00:35:50,784 --> 00:35:52,742 - Send you flowers? Nothing happened to you. 822 00:35:52,826 --> 00:35:54,409 - Or something. - Where, for what? 823 00:35:54,492 --> 00:35:57,575 I should have anyway. - There was a great markup. 824 00:35:57,659 --> 00:35:59,492 - You're right, you're right, you're right. 825 00:35:59,575 --> 00:36:02,242 - I've been working my ass off for you to make that profit? 826 00:36:02,325 --> 00:36:04,534 - How about yours that you're going to sell now? 827 00:36:04,617 --> 00:36:07,617 I've been working for you too. We work for each other. 828 00:36:08,534 --> 00:36:10,575 - Okay, let's make a deal. - Oh, stopped you cold. 829 00:36:10,659 --> 00:36:12,826 [laughs] 830 00:36:17,951 --> 00:36:22,075 - These are still around. Jim Dine, di Suvero, Guston, 831 00:36:22,158 --> 00:36:23,992 and Johns. 832 00:36:25,242 --> 00:36:28,575 Franz Kline. "Target." 833 00:36:28,659 --> 00:36:32,534 There it is. $125,000. 834 00:36:32,617 --> 00:36:35,909 The surface is to die for, because it has everything. 835 00:36:35,992 --> 00:36:39,992 It has sprittzing. It has all the collage stuff. 836 00:36:40,075 --> 00:36:42,033 Very rich. I bought it for ten. 837 00:36:42,117 --> 00:36:44,117 - For 10 million in '97? - Yeah. 838 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,283 - And what would this piece be worth now? 839 00:36:46,367 --> 00:36:48,367 - $100 million. 840 00:36:48,450 --> 00:36:50,283 - Seems crazy amount of money. 841 00:36:50,367 --> 00:36:52,325 - Seems like a crazy amount of money. 842 00:36:52,409 --> 00:36:54,450 - Do you think it's worth it? - Well, let's see. 843 00:36:54,534 --> 00:36:56,951 The stretcher is probably worth 80 bucks. 844 00:36:57,033 --> 00:36:58,200 [laughs] 845 00:36:58,283 --> 00:36:59,951 And we have some high-quality canvas. 846 00:37:00,033 --> 00:37:04,075 I don't know about the cost of the paints. 847 00:37:04,158 --> 00:37:07,784 There's a lot of people that 848 00:37:07,867 --> 00:37:11,450 know the price of everything and the value of nothing. 849 00:37:11,534 --> 00:37:14,367 [laughs] 850 00:37:14,450 --> 00:37:18,200 So apply that. [laughs] 851 00:37:18,283 --> 00:37:23,158 Let's see, one of the early purchases was an Oldenburg. 852 00:37:23,242 --> 00:37:26,409 Poons. Don't see much Poons anymore. 853 00:37:26,492 --> 00:37:28,075 - What--what happened to Poons? 854 00:37:28,158 --> 00:37:32,158 - He slipped off. He slipped off the ledge. 855 00:37:32,242 --> 00:37:34,325 [laughs] 856 00:37:34,409 --> 00:37:37,909 And just for whatever reason. 857 00:37:40,367 --> 00:37:44,075 The art world is capricious 858 00:37:44,158 --> 00:37:46,450 and not clear as to 859 00:37:46,534 --> 00:37:50,325 what the reasons are for some artists losing traction 860 00:37:50,409 --> 00:37:55,867 and others, uh, sailing into the sky. 861 00:37:57,742 --> 00:37:58,659 [stapler clacks] 862 00:37:58,742 --> 00:38:00,575 [dramatic string music] 863 00:38:00,659 --> 00:38:04,701 [stapler clacking] 864 00:38:04,784 --> 00:38:11,450 ♪ ♪ 865 00:38:11,534 --> 00:38:14,742 - I was in that group. 866 00:38:14,826 --> 00:38:20,033 My dot pictures were in that group of the '60s 867 00:38:20,117 --> 00:38:22,325 that were recognized. 868 00:38:22,409 --> 00:38:25,200 You know, made me one of the boys. 869 00:38:25,283 --> 00:38:28,033 I mean, Jasper sold his first paintings for about 870 00:38:28,117 --> 00:38:29,701 what I was selling my first paintings. 871 00:38:29,784 --> 00:38:32,450 You know, $1,000 was big deal. 872 00:38:32,534 --> 00:38:34,200 - You showed with Leo Castelli, right? 873 00:38:34,283 --> 00:38:35,367 And he was-- - Sure, sure. 874 00:38:35,450 --> 00:38:36,909 I moved up from the Green Gallery 875 00:38:36,992 --> 00:38:39,534 to Leo Castelli's gallery when the Green Gallery closed. 876 00:38:39,617 --> 00:38:41,033 Sure. - Mm-hmm. 877 00:38:41,117 --> 00:38:45,659 - But then all this success, all this, like, sameness 878 00:38:45,784 --> 00:38:49,325 at the time finally began to look like sameness. 879 00:38:51,492 --> 00:38:52,951 I said to a guy in a gallery 880 00:38:53,033 --> 00:38:55,075 when I had a show, like, in the works, 881 00:38:55,158 --> 00:38:56,784 I asked him, 882 00:38:56,826 --> 00:38:59,325 "What do you think I should do, you know?" 883 00:38:59,450 --> 00:39:01,659 "You know, give me some advice." 884 00:39:01,784 --> 00:39:05,951 And what he said to me, he didn't mean. 885 00:39:06,033 --> 00:39:07,534 But what it meant to me, I'll tell you. 886 00:39:07,659 --> 00:39:09,992 He said to me, "Oh, you don't have to worry about that. 887 00:39:10,075 --> 00:39:11,617 You're Poons." 888 00:39:11,659 --> 00:39:14,367 And that repelled me. 889 00:39:14,450 --> 00:39:16,075 You see what I mean? 890 00:39:16,158 --> 00:39:18,158 That to me meant, "Oh, you mean I should just 891 00:39:18,242 --> 00:39:20,784 paint the same way I've been painting." 892 00:39:20,867 --> 00:39:21,909 Yeah. 893 00:39:24,951 --> 00:39:27,033 I--I didn't know what I was looking for, 894 00:39:27,117 --> 00:39:29,951 but I knew that isn't what I wanted to be. 895 00:39:30,075 --> 00:39:34,158 You know, I mean, I--I wanted more. 896 00:39:34,242 --> 00:39:37,826 You know, I wanted to be... 897 00:39:37,909 --> 00:39:40,951 you know, Beethoven. 898 00:39:41,075 --> 00:39:44,575 [Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 10"] 899 00:39:44,659 --> 00:39:46,575 The thing that I'm certain of... 900 00:39:46,659 --> 00:39:48,409 ♪ ♪ 901 00:39:48,492 --> 00:39:50,033 I don't think I'd be alive today 902 00:39:50,117 --> 00:39:53,951 if I had gotten rich back then. 903 00:39:55,617 --> 00:39:59,283 ♪ ♪ 904 00:39:59,367 --> 00:40:02,242 - I love Larry Poons. 905 00:40:02,325 --> 00:40:04,784 I got to sit next to him. 906 00:40:04,867 --> 00:40:07,158 It was the opening of the Frank Stella show 907 00:40:07,242 --> 00:40:09,575 at the Whitney, and he was one of my-- 908 00:40:09,659 --> 00:40:11,826 he was on one side of me. 909 00:40:11,909 --> 00:40:17,075 And I said to him, I said, "Oh, Larry Poons. 910 00:40:17,158 --> 00:40:21,534 You were one of my favorite painters for a while." 911 00:40:21,617 --> 00:40:24,534 And he thought that was funny, I guess. 912 00:40:24,617 --> 00:40:26,909 He thought it was funny. 913 00:40:27,534 --> 00:40:30,409 Most of the artists that I've shown from the beginning 914 00:40:30,492 --> 00:40:33,075 have gotten very expensive. 915 00:40:33,158 --> 00:40:36,867 And there's a lot more money in selling something 916 00:40:36,951 --> 00:40:40,075 the second or third time, usually, than the first time. 917 00:40:40,158 --> 00:40:45,409 I sold my first Jeff Koons at $700 to the Rubells. 918 00:40:45,492 --> 00:40:47,784 - Tell me a little bit about Jeff Koons. 919 00:40:47,867 --> 00:40:50,867 - He's a wonderful guy. Wonderful. 920 00:40:50,951 --> 00:40:54,826 His studio was above the old Barneys, 921 00:40:54,909 --> 00:40:57,242 you know, on 17th and 7th. 922 00:40:57,325 --> 00:41:00,325 It was amazing to go into this room 'cause it was covered 923 00:41:00,409 --> 00:41:04,409 with these plastic mirrors, and then he had Velcro 924 00:41:04,492 --> 00:41:08,075 and these inflatable toys stuck to the mirrors. 925 00:41:08,158 --> 00:41:12,909 And this is, like, 1978. 926 00:41:12,992 --> 00:41:15,617 He starts talking to me like, "Well, you know, 927 00:41:15,701 --> 00:41:19,367 you have to have-- everything has to be new." 928 00:41:19,450 --> 00:41:22,534 Like, you know, like, when they have cereal, 929 00:41:22,617 --> 00:41:23,909 they don't change the cereal. 930 00:41:23,992 --> 00:41:25,659 They just put "new" on it. 931 00:41:25,742 --> 00:41:27,701 So this is the new. 932 00:41:27,784 --> 00:41:32,659 And it foreshadows a lot of the whole thing about branding 933 00:41:32,742 --> 00:41:35,784 and what people attribute to Andy Warhol. 934 00:41:35,867 --> 00:41:38,158 Jeff knew all of that just by instinct. 935 00:41:38,242 --> 00:41:39,909 - And he probably would have created... 936 00:41:39,992 --> 00:41:42,826 - Around '79, '80, all these people 937 00:41:42,909 --> 00:41:45,117 would say to me, "Hey, have you met Jeff Koons? 938 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,492 You've gotta meet Jeff Koons. He works on Wall Street." 939 00:41:48,575 --> 00:41:50,617 Of course, Jeff was working in a bucket shop, 940 00:41:50,701 --> 00:41:53,117 like, out of "The Wolf of Wall Street." 941 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:58,283 So someone told me the story that one of the legends 942 00:41:58,367 --> 00:42:02,200 of Wall Street comes in one day, 943 00:42:02,283 --> 00:42:06,450 and all the salesmen are enthralled. 944 00:42:06,534 --> 00:42:08,867 You know, "You're amazing." 945 00:42:08,951 --> 00:42:11,200 And this guy says, "You think I'm good? 946 00:42:11,283 --> 00:42:13,784 Wait till you see this guy, Koons." 947 00:42:13,867 --> 00:42:16,450 - You mailed in my company a postcard a few weeks back 948 00:42:16,534 --> 00:42:18,200 requesting information on penny stocks 949 00:42:18,283 --> 00:42:20,450 that had huge upside potential with very little-- 950 00:42:20,534 --> 00:42:22,158 - Jeff gets on the phone, 951 00:42:22,242 --> 00:42:24,242 and they're listening to him. 952 00:42:24,325 --> 00:42:25,784 - It is perhaps the best thing 953 00:42:25,867 --> 00:42:27,492 I've seen in the last six months. 954 00:42:27,575 --> 00:42:29,117 - And everything stops, 955 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,117 and they watch Jeff Koons, 956 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,158 in one phone session, 957 00:42:35,242 --> 00:42:39,367 go from getting the lead, softening him up, 958 00:42:39,450 --> 00:42:42,784 and closing it in one conversation. 959 00:42:42,867 --> 00:42:46,909 They were just in awe. They'd never seen this before. 960 00:42:51,075 --> 00:42:52,742 - How'd you fucking do that? 961 00:42:52,826 --> 00:42:56,075 - This natural American salesmanship 962 00:42:56,158 --> 00:42:58,534 infuses everything he does. 963 00:42:58,617 --> 00:43:02,117 - You know, the first time we were asked to, um, 964 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,409 to guarantee a Jeff Koons work, 965 00:43:04,492 --> 00:43:06,534 they said, "Well, you know, it's an addition of four 966 00:43:06,617 --> 00:43:08,742 with an artist proof." And I said, "What do you mean? 967 00:43:08,826 --> 00:43:10,575 There are five of these things?" 968 00:43:10,659 --> 00:43:14,409 And surely that should reduce the value of this work of art. 969 00:43:14,492 --> 00:43:16,534 But, in fact, it's completely the opposite. 970 00:43:16,617 --> 00:43:21,200 I mean, actually made it more desirable in the marketplace. 971 00:43:21,283 --> 00:43:23,867 He was also the first artist that I became aware of 972 00:43:23,951 --> 00:43:25,701 that there was a sort of futures market, 973 00:43:25,784 --> 00:43:30,200 that he would sell you something that he hadn't made 974 00:43:30,283 --> 00:43:34,200 for three years' time, at a price, 975 00:43:34,283 --> 00:43:38,158 and then that-- that promise became traded. 976 00:43:38,242 --> 00:43:41,283 [Beethoven's "String Quartet No. 10"] 977 00:43:41,367 --> 00:43:48,242 ♪ ♪ 978 00:43:48,325 --> 00:43:50,701 - Blah, blah, blah, blah. 979 00:43:50,784 --> 00:43:52,117 Let's go. 980 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,659 ♪ ♪ 981 00:43:56,742 --> 00:43:59,117 So, what would you like from me? 982 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,867 - Uh, really, for one, we just wanted to show it to you. 983 00:44:01,951 --> 00:44:05,659 Also just to find out, is it a finished work of art? 984 00:44:05,742 --> 00:44:09,742 - I didn't bother to paint on it anymore, 985 00:44:09,826 --> 00:44:12,117 and for some reason, it was discarded. 986 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:13,367 - Hmm. 987 00:44:13,450 --> 00:44:14,742 Well, I'm a huge fan of your work, 988 00:44:14,826 --> 00:44:16,534 particularly your early minimal work, 989 00:44:16,617 --> 00:44:18,784 so I was so excited when I saw the picture. 990 00:44:18,867 --> 00:44:21,158 It was only when it arrived here that we thought 991 00:44:21,242 --> 00:44:22,617 it wasn't quite right. 992 00:44:22,701 --> 00:44:25,492 - You see, when I stopped painting dots like that... 993 00:44:25,575 --> 00:44:27,659 - Uh-huh. - Or paintings like that, 994 00:44:27,742 --> 00:44:30,534 you know, all my old friends, they stopped talking to me 995 00:44:30,617 --> 00:44:32,117 'cause I--I changed. 996 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,659 The only guy who stood up was Frank Stella. 997 00:44:34,742 --> 00:44:35,992 - Interesting. 998 00:44:36,075 --> 00:44:39,617 - Yeah, he--he was all for it. - Yeah. 999 00:44:39,701 --> 00:44:42,617 It's pretty amazing how art meant that much to people 1000 00:44:42,701 --> 00:44:45,492 in a way that I don't think is the case today. 1001 00:44:45,575 --> 00:44:46,659 You never hear about-- 1002 00:44:46,742 --> 00:44:48,283 - How do you mean, "meant so much"? 1003 00:44:48,367 --> 00:44:51,283 - Well, the fact that artists cared so much 1004 00:44:51,367 --> 00:44:53,992 about what they did and what people are creating 1005 00:44:54,075 --> 00:44:56,909 that, if a style changed, they would consider it 1006 00:44:56,992 --> 00:44:58,450 betrayal, and they would stop talking to you, you know... 1007 00:44:58,534 --> 00:44:59,951 - Well, no, wait, wait, it's a betrayal 1008 00:45:00,033 --> 00:45:02,784 of the career charisma. 1009 00:45:02,867 --> 00:45:06,784 "You're doing this for a career, buddy," you know? 1010 00:45:06,867 --> 00:45:09,826 And that was easy, you know, for me to deal with 1011 00:45:09,909 --> 00:45:11,409 because I wanted to be like 1012 00:45:11,492 --> 00:45:13,325 Mozart or Beethoven, you know? 1013 00:45:13,409 --> 00:45:15,826 The first piece ain't looking like the last piece. 1014 00:45:15,909 --> 00:45:22,450 I didn't wanna paint like that, you know, forever. 1015 00:45:24,659 --> 00:45:26,992 - Can I ask one request of you? - Sure. 1016 00:45:27,075 --> 00:45:28,617 - Can I take a picture with you? 1017 00:45:28,701 --> 00:45:29,951 - Sure. 1018 00:45:30,033 --> 00:45:32,617 - You are one of my, uh, artistic heroes. 1019 00:45:32,701 --> 00:45:33,992 - Really? 1020 00:45:34,075 --> 00:45:36,200 But you said you only like the early stuff. 1021 00:45:36,283 --> 00:45:39,659 - No, no, I like the early stuff best because I just-- 1022 00:45:39,742 --> 00:45:41,033 that's my aesthetic, but no, 1023 00:45:41,117 --> 00:45:42,826 I love your later paintings. Absolutely. 1024 00:45:42,909 --> 00:45:44,367 - It's okay. - No, I really do. 1025 00:45:44,450 --> 00:45:46,117 - That's all right. 1026 00:45:46,575 --> 00:45:48,534 - I also ride a motorcycle. - Oh, yeah? 1027 00:45:48,617 --> 00:45:49,659 - So, um-- - What kind? 1028 00:45:49,742 --> 00:45:51,325 - Uh, it's a Yamaha Road Star. 1029 00:45:51,409 --> 00:45:54,867 It's 1700 CC, so yeah, it's like a Harley wannabe. 1030 00:45:54,951 --> 00:45:56,867 - Right, how long you been riding? 1031 00:45:56,951 --> 00:45:59,283 - Uh, since high school. - Me too. 1032 00:46:02,575 --> 00:46:06,325 [motorcycle engine revving] 1033 00:46:24,117 --> 00:46:25,492 [answering machine beeps] 1034 00:46:25,575 --> 00:46:27,534 - Hi, Larry. It's Dennis Yares. 1035 00:46:27,617 --> 00:46:29,492 Uh, could you give me a call when you have the chance? 1036 00:46:29,575 --> 00:46:32,075 I'd like to set up a time for me to come to the studio 1037 00:46:32,158 --> 00:46:33,534 so we can look at the paintings 1038 00:46:33,617 --> 00:46:35,242 for the New York exhibition. 1039 00:46:35,325 --> 00:46:37,784 Take care, bye. [answering machine beeps] 1040 00:46:37,867 --> 00:46:40,117 [classical string music] 1041 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:44,325 - Larry has the capacity to destroy his market constantly. 1042 00:46:44,409 --> 00:46:46,450 And he's very--he's, like, a genius at that. 1043 00:46:46,534 --> 00:46:48,200 ♪ ♪ 1044 00:46:48,283 --> 00:46:51,075 And, of course, you know Larry's deaf. 1045 00:46:51,158 --> 00:46:53,075 Occasionally, he remembers to put in hearing aids; 1046 00:46:53,158 --> 00:46:55,409 usually not. 1047 00:46:55,492 --> 00:46:57,492 And I said, "Well, Larry, I guess, 1048 00:46:57,575 --> 00:46:58,992 "you know, you can choose. 1049 00:46:59,075 --> 00:47:00,909 "You could be either Beethoven or Goya. 1050 00:47:00,992 --> 00:47:03,659 They were both deaf." [laughs] 1051 00:47:03,742 --> 00:47:05,409 And--and Larry's been living on the edge 1052 00:47:05,492 --> 00:47:07,367 for I don't know how long. Nothing's happening. 1053 00:47:07,450 --> 00:47:09,575 Nothing's happening, and all of a sudden, 1054 00:47:09,659 --> 00:47:12,909 people are looking for his paintings. 1055 00:47:12,992 --> 00:47:15,784 And it's kind of weird, um, because you know 1056 00:47:15,867 --> 00:47:17,867 they do a calculation. It's sick. 1057 00:47:17,951 --> 00:47:19,575 Uh, and the calculation is, who's the most 1058 00:47:19,659 --> 00:47:20,951 undervalued painter? 1059 00:47:21,033 --> 00:47:23,200 'Cause it's a stock market calculation. 1060 00:47:23,283 --> 00:47:28,200 It's a completely perverse, uh, and upside-down art world. 1061 00:47:28,283 --> 00:47:35,367 ♪ ♪ 1062 00:47:42,742 --> 00:47:49,701 ♪ ♪ 1063 00:47:52,492 --> 00:47:53,909 [camera shutter clicks] 1064 00:48:02,909 --> 00:48:04,117 - These ones? 1065 00:48:10,575 --> 00:48:13,325 - So these--this was your return to painting right here? 1066 00:48:13,409 --> 00:48:15,242 - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. 1067 00:48:15,325 --> 00:48:17,283 - What about when these paintings suddenly 1068 00:48:17,367 --> 00:48:20,450 come up at an auction, and you see people-- 1069 00:48:25,951 --> 00:48:27,033 - Yeah. 1070 00:48:43,784 --> 00:48:44,909 - Mm-hmm. 1071 00:48:51,367 --> 00:48:52,450 - Yeah. 1072 00:48:57,325 --> 00:48:58,534 Okay. 1073 00:48:58,617 --> 00:49:01,575 [stirring orchestral music] 1074 00:49:01,659 --> 00:49:04,117 ♪ ♪ 1075 00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,367 - Do you have any sense of what value 1076 00:49:06,450 --> 00:49:07,701 you'll put on these? 1077 00:49:07,784 --> 00:49:09,409 - 20 to 30 million each. 1078 00:49:09,492 --> 00:49:11,409 - What is it that makes a Gerhard Richter painting 1079 00:49:11,492 --> 00:49:13,283 worth 10 million, 20 million? 1080 00:49:13,367 --> 00:49:16,075 - Quality. Rarity. 1081 00:49:16,158 --> 00:49:18,575 The confirmation and consensus that that is 1082 00:49:18,659 --> 00:49:20,867 a particularly excellent work by 1083 00:49:20,951 --> 00:49:25,117 curators, market people, critics, et cetera. 1084 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,575 I mean, there's a reasonable consensus among varying people. 1085 00:49:27,659 --> 00:49:29,867 Listen, great things tell you they're great. 1086 00:49:29,951 --> 00:49:31,575 I mean, when you see something really great, 1087 00:49:31,659 --> 00:49:32,867 everybody knows it. 1088 00:49:32,951 --> 00:49:34,826 Even laypeople can feel something. 1089 00:49:34,909 --> 00:49:36,325 - When you have a picture like this-- 1090 00:49:36,409 --> 00:49:38,075 - Yeah. - Do you hope it finds 1091 00:49:38,158 --> 00:49:41,200 the world of somebody who will be able to live up to that? 1092 00:49:41,283 --> 00:49:43,242 - I try not to get, like, into that part of it, 1093 00:49:43,325 --> 00:49:45,951 'cause, like, I don't really... - You can't decide. 1094 00:49:46,033 --> 00:49:48,450 There's some-- within your question is 1095 00:49:48,534 --> 00:49:50,909 a moral qualifier about are good people-- 1096 00:49:50,992 --> 00:49:52,659 are there good people or bad people in the world, 1097 00:49:52,742 --> 00:49:54,409 and don't you hope a good person gets this? 1098 00:49:54,492 --> 00:49:55,784 - I know what Richter wants. 1099 00:49:55,867 --> 00:49:57,283 I mean, there's what he said he wants. 1100 00:49:57,367 --> 00:49:58,992 - He wants people who are deeply moved by them 1101 00:49:59,075 --> 00:50:00,367 to live with them and love them? 1102 00:50:00,450 --> 00:50:02,659 - He wants museums. - Museums. 1103 00:50:02,742 --> 00:50:03,909 Oh. 1104 00:50:04,826 --> 00:50:06,450 I mean, museums are great. We love them. 1105 00:50:06,534 --> 00:50:09,075 But they're also... 1106 00:50:09,158 --> 00:50:11,117 I mean, if they have too many, they'll never come upstairs 1107 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,701 and see the light of day. So then it's like a cemetery. 1108 00:50:13,784 --> 00:50:15,951 Why do you want your things in a cemetery? 1109 00:50:16,033 --> 00:50:19,075 You know, they're buried underground somewhere. 1110 00:50:19,158 --> 00:50:20,951 So museums for him, that's just 1111 00:50:21,033 --> 00:50:22,742 a very socialist democratic way, 1112 00:50:22,826 --> 00:50:27,367 like, of avoiding... 1113 00:50:27,450 --> 00:50:31,033 having to deal with, like... 1114 00:50:31,117 --> 00:50:32,826 rich people who want them. 1115 00:50:32,909 --> 00:50:35,158 - What's the sort of estimate for the total sale? 1116 00:50:35,242 --> 00:50:37,075 - Like, $100 million. 1117 00:50:38,075 --> 00:50:39,909 - And is the Ames a large portion? 1118 00:50:39,992 --> 00:50:42,075 - No, no, that's the Ames. - That's just the Ames? 1119 00:50:42,158 --> 00:50:44,951 - Yeah, the sale will be much bigger than that. 1120 00:50:45,033 --> 00:50:47,992 [dramatic piano music] 1121 00:50:48,075 --> 00:50:53,367 ♪ ♪ 1122 00:50:53,450 --> 00:50:54,701 [elevator beeps] 1123 00:50:54,784 --> 00:50:56,492 - Oh, thanks. - You're welcome. 1124 00:50:56,575 --> 00:51:03,701 ♪ ♪ 1125 00:51:07,367 --> 00:51:10,283 - I really resent that so much of this work 1126 00:51:10,367 --> 00:51:13,242 wishes to define all of life as 1127 00:51:13,325 --> 00:51:17,909 a glittering compromise with commerce. 1128 00:51:27,784 --> 00:51:31,575 So, what is it? A diamond from the sky? 1129 00:51:31,659 --> 00:51:33,659 ♪ ♪ 1130 00:51:33,742 --> 00:51:36,826 [distant sirens wailing] 1131 00:51:42,659 --> 00:51:46,117 The perfection of this is what I resist. 1132 00:51:47,575 --> 00:51:50,575 The work is pristine, but makes me think 1133 00:51:50,659 --> 00:51:55,617 it's made by someone who has the grime of the newspaper-- 1134 00:51:55,701 --> 00:52:00,575 the business section-- the, um, stock printouts, um, 1135 00:52:00,659 --> 00:52:03,992 on his fingers and wears that as testimony to 1136 00:52:04,075 --> 00:52:07,367 his involvement in a real world that I will never know. 1137 00:52:08,492 --> 00:52:11,242 It would be easy for me to hurry back to Rembrandt 1138 00:52:11,325 --> 00:52:14,575 or Vermeer and live in my pocket or pillow 1139 00:52:14,659 --> 00:52:19,409 of beautiful, invisible, rarified self-reflection 1140 00:52:19,492 --> 00:52:21,409 and share that with a few other souls, 1141 00:52:21,492 --> 00:52:25,742 but those days, this sculpture wants to say, are over. 1142 00:52:25,826 --> 00:52:27,492 You know how it makes me feel? 1143 00:52:27,575 --> 00:52:30,534 I feel like I'm in one of those old Ray Harryhausen 1144 00:52:30,617 --> 00:52:33,575 adventure movies from the '60s like "Sinbad" 1145 00:52:33,659 --> 00:52:35,367 or "Jason and the Argonauts." 1146 00:52:35,450 --> 00:52:38,242 And I'm--I'm like Jason and this is one of the beasts, 1147 00:52:38,325 --> 00:52:40,742 the sort of momentous mythical creatures that 1148 00:52:40,826 --> 00:52:42,992 I've been called upon to slay. 1149 00:52:43,075 --> 00:52:45,951 But when the scene is over, this thing gets 1150 00:52:46,033 --> 00:52:50,158 the star's bathrobe and flies to its private island 1151 00:52:50,242 --> 00:52:52,117 and I, uh-- 1152 00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:56,242 I'll go have a chicken sandwich at my picnic table. 1153 00:52:56,325 --> 00:53:00,283 And I guess all I'm saying is, uh, I surrender the keys, 1154 00:53:00,367 --> 00:53:01,951 but I don't give up. 1155 00:53:02,033 --> 00:53:05,033 [dramatic orchestral music] 1156 00:53:05,117 --> 00:53:11,659 ♪ ♪ 1157 00:53:11,742 --> 00:53:15,283 - What is fascinating is that while the art market overall 1158 00:53:15,367 --> 00:53:18,450 goes up and will continue, of course, to go up, 1159 00:53:18,534 --> 00:53:21,409 taste changes constantly. 1160 00:53:21,492 --> 00:53:23,575 Even the way we look at old masters, 1161 00:53:23,659 --> 00:53:26,450 taste is constantly evolving and moving on. 1162 00:53:26,534 --> 00:53:30,325 And I can definitely tell you what we consider today 1163 00:53:30,409 --> 00:53:34,242 to be the most important and the most expensive 1164 00:53:34,325 --> 00:53:37,033 will not be so considered in 50 years from now. 1165 00:53:37,117 --> 00:53:39,409 ♪ ♪ 1166 00:53:39,492 --> 00:53:41,867 - I remember the first time I saw one of 1167 00:53:41,951 --> 00:53:44,117 those extraordinary formaldehyde pieces 1168 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:45,492 of Damien Hirst. 1169 00:53:45,575 --> 00:53:47,701 It was the Sensation exhibition. 1170 00:53:47,784 --> 00:53:49,826 ♪ ♪ 1171 00:53:49,909 --> 00:53:52,075 The Chris Ofili Virgin Mary, 1172 00:53:52,158 --> 00:53:55,033 the Marc Quinn blood-filled head, 1173 00:53:55,117 --> 00:53:56,659 the Tracey Emin tent. 1174 00:53:56,742 --> 00:53:59,409 It was all about a way of living now, you know, 1175 00:53:59,492 --> 00:54:02,951 and a confrontation with death. 1176 00:54:03,033 --> 00:54:08,367 When this new category of art was proposed to 1177 00:54:08,450 --> 00:54:10,617 the directors of Christie's, 1178 00:54:10,701 --> 00:54:11,909 there was a massive objection 1179 00:54:11,992 --> 00:54:13,575 from the people who worked there. 1180 00:54:13,659 --> 00:54:16,409 And, in fact, we were not allowed 1181 00:54:16,492 --> 00:54:18,867 to take the art into the Christie's building. 1182 00:54:18,951 --> 00:54:20,784 [indistinct auctioneering] 1183 00:54:21,492 --> 00:54:25,033 - Well, art is provocative. - It is provocative. 1184 00:54:25,117 --> 00:54:27,784 Should it always be? - No. 1185 00:54:28,659 --> 00:54:29,826 - But it often is. 1186 00:54:29,909 --> 00:54:33,117 - Art is different, and, uh, 1187 00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:34,742 we all have different tastes. 1188 00:54:34,826 --> 00:54:36,283 And now it's, of course, it's all about 1189 00:54:36,367 --> 00:54:39,075 conceptual art, so this is conceptual art. 1190 00:54:39,158 --> 00:54:42,409 And sometimes it's provocative. Sometimes it's beautiful. 1191 00:54:42,492 --> 00:54:44,200 Sometimes it's super dark. 1192 00:54:44,325 --> 00:54:46,617 A few of my friends have this piece, 1193 00:54:46,701 --> 00:54:49,158 and of course, in Russian tradition, 1194 00:54:49,242 --> 00:54:52,200 if a few people have it, everyone else must have it too. 1195 00:54:52,283 --> 00:54:53,992 It's a very, very popular piece. 1196 00:54:54,075 --> 00:54:55,325 Everyone loves it. 1197 00:54:56,492 --> 00:54:58,575 Shall we proceed? 1198 00:54:58,659 --> 00:55:01,909 So this is the first piece we ever collected. 1199 00:55:01,992 --> 00:55:03,242 Damien Hirst. 1200 00:55:03,325 --> 00:55:06,325 My husband gave to me for my birthday. 1201 00:55:06,409 --> 00:55:08,534 We were in Art Basel Miami, and we came there 1202 00:55:08,617 --> 00:55:09,784 just to have a good time. 1203 00:55:09,867 --> 00:55:11,075 When we walked through the fair, 1204 00:55:11,158 --> 00:55:13,784 I was completely bored. 1205 00:55:13,867 --> 00:55:15,909 And then I turned around and there was, like, 1206 00:55:15,992 --> 00:55:19,909 a piece of, um, pink-- 1207 00:55:19,992 --> 00:55:23,117 pink oval on the wall 1208 00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:28,200 with butterflies on it, and it moved me so much. 1209 00:55:28,283 --> 00:55:30,951 So, so emotion. 1210 00:55:31,033 --> 00:55:37,450 And I said, like, "Wow." That's how it started. 1211 00:55:37,534 --> 00:55:40,117 - And that was a Damien Hirst? - That was a Damien Hirst. 1212 00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:41,617 I didn't know who it was. 1213 00:55:41,701 --> 00:55:42,992 - What moved you about it so much? 1214 00:55:43,075 --> 00:55:44,242 - Colors. 1215 00:55:44,325 --> 00:55:46,784 It was just so beautiful together. 1216 00:55:46,867 --> 00:55:48,033 I just-- 1217 00:55:49,784 --> 00:55:51,617 - I bought this. It was in Venice. 1218 00:55:51,701 --> 00:55:53,242 It was 5 million when I bought it. 1219 00:55:53,325 --> 00:55:57,117 It's not worth that now. Damien's prices have gone down. 1220 00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,742 But I really wanted one of the pieces that he represented 1221 00:56:01,826 --> 00:56:04,158 as a breakthrough idea of having an animal 1222 00:56:04,242 --> 00:56:06,117 in formaldehyde, which is a big question mark. 1223 00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:07,742 Is it art? 1224 00:56:07,826 --> 00:56:10,158 But it's certainly fascinating, and I'd seen 1225 00:56:10,242 --> 00:56:12,200 a couple of his works before. 1226 00:56:12,283 --> 00:56:14,492 It was all sealed in, ready to go. 1227 00:56:14,575 --> 00:56:18,492 And there was snot coming out of the nose of the sheep. 1228 00:56:18,575 --> 00:56:20,867 It was just dripping-- white stuff dripping out. 1229 00:56:20,951 --> 00:56:23,158 So I said, "Okay, we'll have to unseal it." 1230 00:56:23,242 --> 00:56:26,283 We emptied halfway out and we got it delivered here. 1231 00:56:26,367 --> 00:56:30,826 And then, for six months, I was grooming that sheep. 1232 00:56:30,909 --> 00:56:33,784 It's now at four years and nothing has come out, 1233 00:56:33,867 --> 00:56:34,951 so it's stable. 1234 00:56:35,033 --> 00:56:36,867 - It's done? - No, it's done. 1235 00:56:36,951 --> 00:56:39,242 There's nothing really-- what you say-- 1236 00:56:39,325 --> 00:56:40,575 conceptual about it. 1237 00:56:40,659 --> 00:56:43,575 I don't consider this conceptual art. 1238 00:56:43,659 --> 00:56:46,826 It's--these are real objects 1239 00:56:46,909 --> 00:56:49,951 that you can relate to as a real person. 1240 00:56:52,075 --> 00:56:54,367 This is a candle that you burn. 1241 00:56:54,450 --> 00:56:57,659 But once you start it, you have to keep burning it. 1242 00:56:57,742 --> 00:57:00,534 But when it's all burned down, you could recast it, 1243 00:57:00,617 --> 00:57:01,951 but it'd cost you money. 1244 00:57:02,784 --> 00:57:05,200 The first time I saw candle figures, 1245 00:57:05,283 --> 00:57:07,534 I said, "This is stupid. I mean, you know, 1246 00:57:07,617 --> 00:57:10,033 why would you destroy your own art?" 1247 00:57:10,117 --> 00:57:12,409 This is another one. - That's Fischer, too? 1248 00:57:12,492 --> 00:57:13,617 - That's Urs Fischer, yeah. 1249 00:57:13,701 --> 00:57:15,200 He built a whole house of bread. 1250 00:57:15,283 --> 00:57:17,701 A full-sized house made of loaves of bread. 1251 00:57:17,784 --> 00:57:19,659 - Mm-hmm. - [laughs] 1252 00:57:19,742 --> 00:57:21,367 I don't know, is it art? 1253 00:57:21,450 --> 00:57:22,784 Go--ask me. [laughs] 1254 00:57:22,867 --> 00:57:24,158 - Is it? - Is it? 1255 00:57:24,242 --> 00:57:26,909 - Is it art? - Well, it's not food. 1256 00:57:26,992 --> 00:57:28,951 [both laugh] 1257 00:57:31,659 --> 00:57:34,242 - When Pollock finished his first drip painting, 1258 00:57:34,325 --> 00:57:38,409 he asked his wife, "Is this a painting?" 1259 00:57:38,492 --> 00:57:41,742 He made something that may not even fit 1260 00:57:41,826 --> 00:57:44,867 in the very large category we call art. 1261 00:57:44,951 --> 00:57:46,158 He didn't know. 1262 00:57:46,242 --> 00:57:48,033 The interesting thing about Pollock 1263 00:57:48,117 --> 00:57:51,409 is he only dripped for about 48 months. 1264 00:57:51,492 --> 00:57:54,826 I would ask any artist, any skeptic, any cynic, 1265 00:57:54,909 --> 00:57:58,784 if you invented fire, which Pollock did, 1266 00:57:58,867 --> 00:58:01,909 are you strong enough to stop making fire 1267 00:58:01,992 --> 00:58:06,242 and go back to Hell 48 months later, 1268 00:58:06,325 --> 00:58:11,575 go back to Hell and try to make something new again? 1269 00:58:11,659 --> 00:58:14,283 How many people have done that? 1270 00:58:14,367 --> 00:58:15,951 Pollock tried to change. 1271 00:58:16,033 --> 00:58:20,325 By 1956, he wrapped himself around a telephone pole 1272 00:58:20,409 --> 00:58:22,742 out on Springs, Long Island, 1273 00:58:22,826 --> 00:58:25,951 totally alcoholic in the car. 1274 00:58:26,033 --> 00:58:28,784 [Little Walter's "Sad Hours"] 1275 00:58:28,867 --> 00:58:32,283 ♪ ♪ 1276 00:58:32,367 --> 00:58:34,534 - You know, Keith Haring, he asked me once, 1277 00:58:34,617 --> 00:58:36,534 "What's more important, art or life?" 1278 00:58:36,617 --> 00:58:39,283 And I said, "It's a hard question. 1279 00:58:39,367 --> 00:58:40,951 "I mean, you know, we're in our 20s. 1280 00:58:41,033 --> 00:58:42,701 "At this age, I would say art, 1281 00:58:42,784 --> 00:58:45,033 because at least it lives forever." 1282 00:58:45,117 --> 00:58:47,033 ♪ ♪ 1283 00:58:47,117 --> 00:58:49,909 These are oil sticks, but they're not really 1284 00:58:49,992 --> 00:58:52,701 the kind of sticks that Jean-Michel was working with. 1285 00:58:52,784 --> 00:58:54,992 - Basquiat? - Yeah, Basquiat. 1286 00:58:55,075 --> 00:58:56,409 - How'd you meet him? 1287 00:58:56,492 --> 00:58:57,784 - Uh, when I first got to New York, 1288 00:58:57,867 --> 00:59:01,784 the first guy I met was Jean-Michel. 1289 00:59:01,867 --> 00:59:05,492 It's a real tragedy that he died so young. 1290 00:59:05,575 --> 00:59:08,117 I love Jean-Michel's work, and, uh-- 1291 00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:10,742 and I really-- I really loved him. 1292 00:59:10,826 --> 00:59:13,826 The last time I saw him, he was in a very negative, 1293 00:59:13,909 --> 00:59:15,909 kind of depressed mood, and I said, "What's wrong?" 1294 00:59:15,992 --> 00:59:17,992 And he said, "I'm all washed up in this town." 1295 00:59:18,075 --> 00:59:19,826 Like a kind of Frank Sinatra line 1296 00:59:19,909 --> 00:59:21,325 or something, and, uh, something 1297 00:59:21,409 --> 00:59:22,409 he would write on a painting. 1298 00:59:22,492 --> 00:59:23,742 And I said, "Why? 1299 00:59:23,826 --> 00:59:25,075 What are you talking about, man?" 1300 00:59:25,158 --> 00:59:26,450 And he says, "Well, 1301 00:59:26,534 --> 00:59:27,951 nobody in this town wants to show me." 1302 00:59:28,033 --> 00:59:29,492 And I said, "What about Leo Castelli?" 1303 00:59:29,575 --> 00:59:30,826 I said, "You just--" You know, he said, "No. 1304 00:59:30,909 --> 00:59:32,450 Leo doesn't wanna show me." 1305 00:59:32,534 --> 00:59:34,158 I said, "What about this guy? What about that guy?" 1306 00:59:34,242 --> 00:59:36,575 And he said, "None of them want to show my work anymore. 1307 00:59:36,659 --> 00:59:39,826 Nobody's interested in showing my work." 1308 00:59:39,909 --> 00:59:42,117 I think that he felt he was the token black guy 1309 00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:45,117 that came out and, you know, was it really his art 1310 00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:48,117 they appreciated or was it the sort of fact that he was 1311 00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:50,242 African-American and that he had sort of 1312 00:59:50,325 --> 00:59:52,117 broken into the white system? 1313 00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:58,784 ♪ ♪ 1314 00:59:58,867 --> 01:00:00,826 You know, like, that's the kind of subject 1315 01:00:00,909 --> 01:00:03,534 that takes you out of what you're painting. 1316 01:00:03,659 --> 01:00:06,367 It's just gonna cause, you know, 1317 01:00:06,492 --> 01:00:08,909 the painting to get all screwed up. 1318 01:00:08,992 --> 01:00:09,826 [laughs] 1319 01:00:09,909 --> 01:00:13,367 ♪ ♪ 1320 01:00:13,492 --> 01:00:14,826 All right, you know what? 1321 01:00:14,909 --> 01:00:16,826 I've gotta get rid of this entire section 1322 01:00:16,909 --> 01:00:18,701 of the painting now. 1323 01:00:18,784 --> 01:00:20,826 - So when you see Jean-Michel's paintings 1324 01:00:20,909 --> 01:00:22,534 going last year for-- - Yeah. 1325 01:00:22,659 --> 01:00:24,784 When you see them going for $50 million today, 1326 01:00:24,867 --> 01:00:26,909 it is sad. 1327 01:00:26,992 --> 01:00:28,867 The irony is that, if he were around, 1328 01:00:28,951 --> 01:00:32,450 who knows if they would sell for that kind of money. 1329 01:00:32,534 --> 01:00:37,075 ♪ ♪ 1330 01:00:37,158 --> 01:00:41,033 - I've really never made any money until recently. 1331 01:00:41,117 --> 01:00:42,951 But I always got by. 1332 01:00:43,033 --> 01:00:45,617 If you have something to say, it will be seen. 1333 01:00:45,701 --> 01:00:49,158 You just might not be alive. That's the sucky part. 1334 01:00:49,242 --> 01:00:50,659 You might be old or dead. 1335 01:00:50,742 --> 01:00:52,951 And if you're female, you're bound to be old. 1336 01:00:53,033 --> 01:00:54,242 Or dead. 1337 01:00:54,325 --> 01:00:57,283 [rousing orchestral music] 1338 01:00:57,367 --> 01:01:03,492 ♪ ♪ 1339 01:01:03,575 --> 01:01:07,117 - So, on that deal, the client is interested 1340 01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,617 in taking it but wants to improve the deal a little, 1341 01:01:09,701 --> 01:01:10,742 the economics of the deal. 1342 01:01:10,826 --> 01:01:12,742 Can you get it a little higher? 1343 01:01:12,826 --> 01:01:15,617 ♪ ♪ 1344 01:01:15,701 --> 01:01:17,992 - Do you have any sense of who might buy these paintings? 1345 01:01:18,075 --> 01:01:19,575 - I think about who would buy each of them. 1346 01:01:19,659 --> 01:01:21,992 If I didn't have people in my mind, 1347 01:01:22,075 --> 01:01:24,033 I would be ill-suited for this job. 1348 01:01:24,117 --> 01:01:25,867 So, you know, we have to think about that all the time. 1349 01:01:25,951 --> 01:01:28,867 Like, how commercial is it? Who's gonna buy it? 1350 01:01:28,951 --> 01:01:30,242 How--what are the factors of getting 1351 01:01:30,325 --> 01:01:33,283 that person to buy something? 1352 01:01:33,367 --> 01:01:37,826 - I'm no longer buying at auction, if I can help it. 1353 01:01:37,909 --> 01:01:39,367 - This is relatively new. - I'm done. 1354 01:01:39,450 --> 01:01:41,909 Yeah, relatively new. - It's relatively new. 1355 01:01:41,992 --> 01:01:43,742 He's in a phase. - With exceptions, you know. 1356 01:01:43,826 --> 01:01:45,617 - He's in a phase, Stefan. 1357 01:01:45,701 --> 01:01:46,951 Okay, what do I love in this sale? 1358 01:01:47,033 --> 01:01:49,242 I love-- that, for me, is stunning. 1359 01:01:49,325 --> 01:01:50,534 - Yeah... - Stunning. 1360 01:01:50,617 --> 01:01:51,742 - Yeah, what do you get for that? 1361 01:01:51,826 --> 01:01:53,742 - 20 to 30. - Yeah, 20 to 30. 1362 01:01:53,826 --> 01:01:55,784 - Okay, now look at this one, Stef. 1363 01:01:55,867 --> 01:01:57,367 This is a good little picture. 1364 01:01:57,450 --> 01:01:58,909 - Red is always good. - Red. 1365 01:01:58,992 --> 01:02:01,951 - So the early rules: red is better than brown, 1366 01:02:02,033 --> 01:02:04,450 brown pictures are unsalable, 1367 01:02:04,534 --> 01:02:07,075 and don't buy any pictures with fish. 1368 01:02:07,158 --> 01:02:08,742 - Brown is hard. 1369 01:02:08,826 --> 01:02:10,117 Green is not always great. 1370 01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:11,325 de Koo-- this is de Kooney 1371 01:02:11,409 --> 01:02:12,826 in front of the painting I'm selling. 1372 01:02:12,909 --> 01:02:13,909 - Ooh. 1373 01:02:13,992 --> 01:02:15,742 You don't have to be an art collector 1374 01:02:15,826 --> 01:02:16,909 to be able to buy a de Kooney. 1375 01:02:16,992 --> 01:02:18,534 You look at this and listen to her, 1376 01:02:18,617 --> 01:02:19,701 and pretty soon, you know, 1377 01:02:19,784 --> 01:02:21,283 "Okay, that's something I can buy." 1378 01:02:21,367 --> 01:02:25,158 Whether you need it or like it, it's a good investment. 1379 01:02:25,242 --> 01:02:29,033 And there's a lot of investment buyers out there. 1380 01:02:29,117 --> 01:02:30,575 - A lot. - A lot. 1381 01:02:30,659 --> 01:02:33,617 They have asset allocations, stocks, bonds, 1382 01:02:33,701 --> 01:02:35,242 art, real estate... - Right. 1383 01:02:35,325 --> 01:02:36,909 - That sort of stuff. - There's a lot of people-- 1384 01:02:36,992 --> 01:02:39,075 - But you know why they're buying it. 1385 01:02:39,158 --> 01:02:42,075 Not because they have a passion for de Kooney. 1386 01:02:42,158 --> 01:02:43,992 - Well, passion is, like, hard to measure, always, you know... 1387 01:02:44,075 --> 01:02:47,075 - Oh, especially a lot of them end up in storage. 1388 01:02:47,158 --> 01:02:49,575 - Oh, that's crime, of course. We don't like that. 1389 01:02:49,659 --> 01:02:51,033 - I haven't seen much Jeff Koons 1390 01:02:51,117 --> 01:02:52,409 in any of the shows this fall. 1391 01:02:52,492 --> 01:02:54,075 - The real estate people 1392 01:02:54,158 --> 01:02:56,992 started thinking of Jeff Koons as lobby art. 1393 01:02:57,075 --> 01:02:58,534 - They did. I know. 1394 01:02:58,617 --> 01:03:01,117 I went to a meeting the other day at Astor Place, 1395 01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:02,659 and there's the swan. 1396 01:03:02,742 --> 01:03:04,367 The red swan is in the building. 1397 01:03:04,450 --> 01:03:06,117 - Yep. - That was a kiss of death. 1398 01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:07,784 - And this guy-- and the guys in Florida 1399 01:03:07,867 --> 01:03:10,117 having the sitting ballerina. - Yeah. 1400 01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:12,367 - Yeah, that really is gonna hurt him. 1401 01:03:12,450 --> 01:03:14,117 - That's gonna hurt him. Lobby art. 1402 01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:15,450 - Lobby art. - Context is really key. 1403 01:03:15,534 --> 01:03:16,867 Like, if you see it in a lobby, 1404 01:03:16,951 --> 01:03:18,784 it just kind of disappears. - Yeah. 1405 01:03:18,867 --> 01:03:21,283 - And then you never get out of the lobby once you're in there. 1406 01:03:21,367 --> 01:03:22,450 - Yeah, yeah. 1407 01:03:22,534 --> 01:03:24,450 [motorcycle engine revs] 1408 01:03:24,534 --> 01:03:27,450 [thunder rumbles] 1409 01:03:27,534 --> 01:03:31,283 - What was the first piece that you fell in love with? 1410 01:03:31,367 --> 01:03:33,117 - Like, beyond something I made as a child 1411 01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:34,909 that I loved, or, you know, like, something that was 1412 01:03:34,992 --> 01:03:36,617 real art in that way? - Yeah, that you saw, yeah. 1413 01:03:36,701 --> 01:03:39,283 - My hometown museum has this Giacomo Balla painting 1414 01:03:39,367 --> 01:03:40,617 that's very famous. 1415 01:03:40,701 --> 01:03:43,784 And it's a dog-- a little kind of, like, 1416 01:03:43,867 --> 01:03:45,867 long-haired dachshund, like, wagging it's tail 1417 01:03:45,951 --> 01:03:48,409 and, like, it's feet are going, and a woman's dress is moving. 1418 01:03:48,492 --> 01:03:49,701 And it's that movement, 1419 01:03:49,784 --> 01:03:51,367 that very futurist movement of Balla. 1420 01:03:51,450 --> 01:03:53,283 It's a famous picture. 1421 01:03:53,367 --> 01:03:54,951 Masterpiece, loved that. 1422 01:03:55,033 --> 01:03:56,617 I thought that was just so amazing. 1423 01:03:56,701 --> 01:03:57,784 Want me to show you a picture of it? 1424 01:03:57,867 --> 01:03:58,742 - Yeah. 1425 01:03:58,826 --> 01:04:00,033 - Super famous painting 1426 01:04:00,117 --> 01:04:01,534 at the Albright-Knox in Buffalo, New York. 1427 01:04:01,617 --> 01:04:03,158 It's such a masterpiece. I loved that painting. 1428 01:04:03,242 --> 01:04:04,575 Look at it, how great it is. 1429 01:04:04,659 --> 01:04:07,325 The dog's just magnificent. I happen to love dogs. 1430 01:04:07,409 --> 01:04:09,158 I wanna-- I'm gonna screen-capture this 1431 01:04:09,242 --> 01:04:10,701 so I can look at it on bad days. 1432 01:04:10,784 --> 01:04:12,867 - It's great. - When I'm having a shitty day, 1433 01:04:12,951 --> 01:04:14,325 I'm gonna look at that painting. 1434 01:04:14,409 --> 01:04:15,701 That's great. 1435 01:04:15,784 --> 01:04:20,158 [thunder rumbling] 1436 01:04:20,242 --> 01:04:23,450 - I write about rich people. I'm a journalist, okay? 1437 01:04:23,534 --> 01:04:25,575 And I write novels and articles about rich people 1438 01:04:25,659 --> 01:04:27,325 all the time because I find them fascinating. 1439 01:04:27,409 --> 01:04:30,701 They're incredibly insecure and incredibly neurotic. 1440 01:04:30,784 --> 01:04:32,701 - Are you a rich person? 1441 01:04:32,784 --> 01:04:35,325 - I, um-- - Yes, you are. 1442 01:04:35,409 --> 01:04:37,117 - I-- - Yes, you are. 1443 01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,867 - Okay, I-- - Yes, you are. 1444 01:04:39,951 --> 01:04:42,409 - I live on Park Avenue in Manhattan, okay? 1445 01:04:42,492 --> 01:04:45,492 I've been to a lot of apartments. 1446 01:04:45,575 --> 01:04:49,575 There are apartments on the sixth floor, 1447 01:04:49,659 --> 01:04:51,033 the eighth floor, and the tenth floor 1448 01:04:51,117 --> 01:04:53,617 of certain buildings that have the same piece 1449 01:04:53,701 --> 01:04:56,701 by the same artist on the same wall. 1450 01:04:56,784 --> 01:05:02,450 I think that is a craven, horrible, distasteful way 1451 01:05:02,534 --> 01:05:04,867 to enjoy art, because everyone else has one, 1452 01:05:04,951 --> 01:05:06,367 and you get to buy one too. 1453 01:05:06,450 --> 01:05:07,992 - Could I just say something? - Yeah. 1454 01:05:08,075 --> 01:05:09,826 - Just, I'm gonna interrupt just for one second. 1455 01:05:09,909 --> 01:05:12,617 Okay, I think there's three kinds of people in this world. 1456 01:05:12,701 --> 01:05:14,242 Those who see, 1457 01:05:14,325 --> 01:05:15,742 those who see when they are shown, 1458 01:05:15,826 --> 01:05:18,617 and those who will never see. 1459 01:05:18,701 --> 01:05:20,409 This is a work I want you to look at. 1460 01:05:20,492 --> 01:05:22,742 You're gonna die because this is so Holly Peterson. 1461 01:05:22,826 --> 01:05:24,742 Okay, so this is an artist you don't know. 1462 01:05:24,826 --> 01:05:27,033 Njideka Akunyili Crosby. 1463 01:05:27,117 --> 01:05:28,867 She makes these works that are very similar 1464 01:05:28,951 --> 01:05:30,409 to Rauschenberg in process and technique. 1465 01:05:30,492 --> 01:05:32,992 - Like Silly Putty. - Yeah, exactly. 1466 01:05:33,075 --> 01:05:35,742 So on his body are all these African women, 1467 01:05:35,826 --> 01:05:37,784 like brides standing with the family-- 1468 01:05:37,867 --> 01:05:39,450 - Oh, my God, wonderful. - On his body. 1469 01:05:39,534 --> 01:05:41,242 And look at that hand on his chest, how tender that is. 1470 01:05:41,325 --> 01:05:43,242 Can you stand that? - Wonderful. 1471 01:05:43,325 --> 01:05:44,242 Maybe she's--loves him. 1472 01:05:44,325 --> 01:05:45,409 - Also he's in this kind of, 1473 01:05:45,492 --> 01:05:46,534 like, supine position, right? 1474 01:05:46,617 --> 01:05:48,075 With his back a little arched. 1475 01:05:48,158 --> 01:05:49,701 - No, it's totally beautiful. 1476 01:05:49,784 --> 01:05:52,575 I want it. I want it for my wall. 1477 01:05:53,409 --> 01:05:55,575 - I think it's really heartening to know that 1478 01:05:55,659 --> 01:05:58,283 the work is connecting the way it does. 1479 01:05:58,367 --> 01:06:02,909 Um, where the anxiety comes in or saying it's scary 1480 01:06:02,992 --> 01:06:05,701 that I'm getting all this attention is, 1481 01:06:05,784 --> 01:06:08,158 how do I keep evolving this work? 1482 01:06:08,242 --> 01:06:09,867 How do I keep changing it? 1483 01:06:09,951 --> 01:06:13,242 How do I not stagnate, especially when you feel like, 1484 01:06:13,325 --> 01:06:15,909 "Ooh, I've stumbled onto something pretty cushy. 1485 01:06:15,992 --> 01:06:18,826 "I could just cruise and ride this out 1486 01:06:18,909 --> 01:06:21,951 for the next 20 years." 1487 01:06:22,033 --> 01:06:23,992 - Well, I think the art world is a very brutal place, 1488 01:06:24,075 --> 01:06:25,617 especially for young artists. 1489 01:06:25,701 --> 01:06:27,450 I think it can be really, really tough. 1490 01:06:27,534 --> 01:06:29,450 And when the market, you know-- 1491 01:06:29,534 --> 01:06:31,742 sometimes people are very seduced and they-- 1492 01:06:31,826 --> 01:06:33,784 it just becomes about production and the money. 1493 01:06:33,867 --> 01:06:37,784 And I think you have to know that the work is gonna 1494 01:06:37,867 --> 01:06:41,492 continue on in spite of all the noise around you. 1495 01:06:41,575 --> 01:06:45,534 This really rapid rise in the art market is artificial 1496 01:06:45,617 --> 01:06:49,033 and can, of course, you know, go away over time. 1497 01:06:49,117 --> 01:06:53,409 It's hard; it's really hard to be an artist, I think. 1498 01:06:56,075 --> 01:06:59,742 - How do you stay sane under that white heat? 1499 01:07:01,450 --> 01:07:03,659 - What is the white heat? 1500 01:07:03,742 --> 01:07:07,200 - When your paintings go for a million dollars at auction. 1501 01:07:07,283 --> 01:07:10,117 [laughs] And you're still alive. 1502 01:07:12,659 --> 01:07:17,492 That white heat is really dangerous for artists. 1503 01:07:17,575 --> 01:07:20,742 It's hard, it burns people out all the time. 1504 01:07:20,826 --> 01:07:23,701 Just made them crazy. 1505 01:07:23,784 --> 01:07:27,701 At least in my generation, or the generation 1506 01:07:27,784 --> 01:07:29,033 that's going on right now. 1507 01:07:29,117 --> 01:07:32,325 You know, there's major success. 1508 01:07:32,409 --> 01:07:34,033 Although Jeff is right up there, 1509 01:07:34,117 --> 01:07:36,283 and he still makes great art. 1510 01:07:38,659 --> 01:07:43,242 It's really a long game. It's a long-haul game. 1511 01:07:45,659 --> 01:07:48,701 [Saint-Saens' "Danse Macabre"] 1512 01:07:48,784 --> 01:07:55,826 ♪ ♪ 1513 01:08:08,659 --> 01:08:10,951 - It is only when you go completely close up 1514 01:08:11,033 --> 01:08:13,283 that you actually realize that it's painted. 1515 01:08:13,367 --> 01:08:17,367 I definitely feel that Marilyn Minter is an artist 1516 01:08:17,450 --> 01:08:20,909 to go for if you like it, because I don't think you 1517 01:08:20,992 --> 01:08:23,575 should ever buy something that you don't personally like. 1518 01:08:23,659 --> 01:08:26,409 But there are plenty of people who buy with their ears 1519 01:08:26,492 --> 01:08:28,367 instead of buying with your eyes. 1520 01:08:28,450 --> 01:08:29,784 Of course, you ought to use 1521 01:08:29,867 --> 01:08:31,325 your ears a little bit as well. 1522 01:08:31,409 --> 01:08:33,951 But, still, do focus on your eyes. 1523 01:08:34,033 --> 01:08:41,200 ♪ ♪ 1524 01:08:44,951 --> 01:08:48,117 This is a key gentleman in the art world, 1525 01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:49,617 Mr. Serge Tiroche. 1526 01:08:49,701 --> 01:08:51,951 He is focusing really on global art. 1527 01:08:52,033 --> 01:08:54,325 - So just approximately how many billions do you think 1528 01:08:54,409 --> 01:08:56,367 the art market is annually? 1529 01:08:56,450 --> 01:08:59,951 - 56 billion in the last report, I believe, right? 1530 01:09:00,033 --> 01:09:02,117 - When I started in the art market, 1531 01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:06,450 banks would not view, uh, the art market as something 1532 01:09:06,534 --> 01:09:08,867 they would want to even recommend to their clients. 1533 01:09:08,951 --> 01:09:13,450 Now it is automatically a part of something they would speak 1534 01:09:13,534 --> 01:09:16,367 to their clients, in terms of diversification. 1535 01:09:16,450 --> 01:09:18,784 - What--What makes a Gerhard Richter so valuable 1536 01:09:18,867 --> 01:09:20,867 and, say, a Larry Poons not so valuable? 1537 01:09:20,951 --> 01:09:22,534 Who decides? 1538 01:09:22,617 --> 01:09:25,492 - You know, the simple answer would be supply and demand. 1539 01:09:25,575 --> 01:09:29,325 The real answer is, uh, I think... 1540 01:09:29,409 --> 01:09:30,867 I don't know how to put this elegantly. 1541 01:09:30,951 --> 01:09:35,492 Um, financial interests of certain parties. 1542 01:09:35,575 --> 01:09:36,867 - [soft chuckle] 1543 01:09:36,951 --> 01:09:38,659 - No doubt. 1544 01:09:38,742 --> 01:09:41,784 There's an interest in keeping prices at a certain level. 1545 01:09:41,867 --> 01:09:43,158 No doubt. - Yeah. 1546 01:09:43,242 --> 01:09:45,492 It's--It's part of the rules of the game. 1547 01:09:45,575 --> 01:09:50,409 ♪ ♪ 1548 01:09:50,492 --> 01:09:54,117 - Uh, well, I started some time ago, 1549 01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:56,200 and the world of art and commerce 1550 01:09:56,283 --> 01:10:00,283 was not nearly so complex as it is now. 1551 01:10:00,367 --> 01:10:01,826 - How has it changed? 1552 01:10:01,909 --> 01:10:05,242 - Um, they are like Siamese twins, 1553 01:10:05,325 --> 01:10:06,867 money and art right now. 1554 01:10:06,951 --> 01:10:08,909 And, uh, you cannot separate them. 1555 01:10:08,992 --> 01:10:11,409 And so the purpose of art 1556 01:10:11,492 --> 01:10:15,033 has, um, morphed, 1557 01:10:15,117 --> 01:10:19,367 become perverted or mutated. 1558 01:10:19,450 --> 01:10:21,575 And I think art itself is 1559 01:10:21,659 --> 01:10:26,659 having a hard time finding its way out of this situation. 1560 01:10:26,742 --> 01:10:28,033 Listen, I'm in the middle of it, 1561 01:10:28,117 --> 01:10:29,575 and I'm busy making money myself. 1562 01:10:29,659 --> 01:10:31,951 So I'm not criticizing; I'm just 1563 01:10:32,033 --> 01:10:34,075 observing my own environment. 1564 01:10:34,158 --> 01:10:37,450 Um, I think we are... 1565 01:10:38,492 --> 01:10:40,033 Without doubt, everybody knows it; 1566 01:10:40,117 --> 01:10:43,701 we're careening toward some edge or some end. 1567 01:10:43,784 --> 01:10:45,909 - So the reckoning hasn't begun? 1568 01:10:45,992 --> 01:10:51,075 - Uh, I'm not sure. 1569 01:10:51,158 --> 01:10:53,075 I think I can smell smoke. 1570 01:10:53,158 --> 01:11:00,283 ♪ ♪ 1571 01:11:29,659 --> 01:11:31,826 [indistinct radio chatter] 1572 01:11:31,909 --> 01:11:39,033 ♪ ♪ 1573 01:11:42,659 --> 01:11:46,075 [flushing] 1574 01:11:46,158 --> 01:11:48,742 - The reckoning has begun. 1575 01:11:50,283 --> 01:11:53,033 This is the end of empire. 1576 01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:57,492 - Italian artist Maurizio Cattelan's 1577 01:11:57,575 --> 01:11:59,325 bold, irreverent work 1578 01:11:59,409 --> 01:12:01,450 skewers social complacencies 1579 01:12:01,534 --> 01:12:04,659 and reimagines cultural icons. 1580 01:12:04,742 --> 01:12:06,659 Cattelan's toilet offers a wink 1581 01:12:06,742 --> 01:12:08,575 to the excesses of the art market 1582 01:12:08,659 --> 01:12:10,867 but also evokes the American dream 1583 01:12:10,951 --> 01:12:12,909 of opportunity for all, 1584 01:12:12,992 --> 01:12:15,325 its utility ultimately reminding us 1585 01:12:15,409 --> 01:12:17,659 of the inescapable physical realities 1586 01:12:17,742 --> 01:12:19,367 of our shared humanity. 1587 01:12:19,450 --> 01:12:20,992 ♪ ♪ 1588 01:12:21,075 --> 01:12:23,033 - Well, what can you think of a golden toilet? 1589 01:12:23,117 --> 01:12:26,325 I mean, it's a--it's an insult. 1590 01:12:26,409 --> 01:12:31,992 And, I mean, Maurizio Cattelan is a part of this world 1591 01:12:32,075 --> 01:12:35,075 of Damien Hirst and Jeff Koons, of sensationalism, 1592 01:12:35,158 --> 01:12:36,492 and it's promoted, you know. 1593 01:12:36,575 --> 01:12:39,075 It's the fashion designers. It's Prada. 1594 01:12:39,158 --> 01:12:41,367 Uh, it's Pignot. It's Arno. 1595 01:12:41,450 --> 01:12:44,826 It's people who are involved in luxury brands. 1596 01:12:44,909 --> 01:12:47,325 And that is what contemporary art has become. 1597 01:12:47,409 --> 01:12:50,117 It is a luxury brand. 1598 01:12:53,784 --> 01:12:56,367 - Actually, the cost was 250. 1599 01:12:56,450 --> 01:12:59,367 Guess what. I wrote a check. 1600 01:12:59,450 --> 01:13:01,367 No trade. [laughs] 1601 01:13:01,450 --> 01:13:03,033 I just real-- [laughs] 1602 01:13:03,117 --> 01:13:05,242 - This is for which piece, now? 1603 01:13:05,325 --> 01:13:06,826 - That was "Him." 1604 01:13:06,909 --> 01:13:08,992 - It's called "Him"? - Yeah. 1605 01:13:09,075 --> 01:13:10,325 "Him," you know. 1606 01:13:10,409 --> 01:13:12,033 They always talked about "Him." 1607 01:13:12,117 --> 01:13:16,492 It's like, in Europe my mom would never say cancer, Krebs. 1608 01:13:16,575 --> 01:13:17,867 It was C. 1609 01:13:17,951 --> 01:13:20,367 It's the polite way to deal with it. 1610 01:13:20,450 --> 01:13:22,409 So he was known as "Him." 1611 01:13:22,492 --> 01:13:25,742 And we know it's going to be a, um, 1612 01:13:25,826 --> 01:13:28,367 key work, without a doubt. 1613 01:13:28,450 --> 01:13:30,325 You know the recent auction record on that? 1614 01:13:30,409 --> 01:13:32,617 - No, what is it? - $17 million. 1615 01:13:33,701 --> 01:13:36,701 Maurizio Cattelan is like Duchamp. 1616 01:13:36,784 --> 01:13:40,492 He's an important player in the history of art. 1617 01:13:41,909 --> 01:13:44,492 Christie's displayed it. They had him facing out. 1618 01:13:44,575 --> 01:13:47,951 I said, "No, that guy has to face a wall." 1619 01:13:48,033 --> 01:13:51,283 You have to face reality. - Hmm. 1620 01:13:54,867 --> 01:13:57,492 - And then I found an old book from-- 1621 01:13:57,575 --> 01:14:00,909 that my sister gave me 40 years ago. 1622 01:14:00,992 --> 01:14:04,158 It's called "Psychopathia Sexualis." 1623 01:14:04,242 --> 01:14:07,826 [laughs] By Krafft-Ebing. 1624 01:14:07,909 --> 01:14:11,742 So I figured that's-- that's what he's looking at. 1625 01:14:11,826 --> 01:14:14,992 I'm not sure that he had a lot of sexual thoughts. 1626 01:14:15,075 --> 01:14:17,033 - Who? 1627 01:14:17,117 --> 01:14:18,659 - Him. 1628 01:14:19,992 --> 01:14:21,867 - And you hear--and you heard him speak when you were-- 1629 01:14:21,951 --> 01:14:23,492 - I heard him speak. I was, uh-- 1630 01:14:23,575 --> 01:14:25,867 he was a very charismatic speaker. 1631 01:14:25,951 --> 01:14:28,784 He--he spoke a little bit like Trump. 1632 01:14:28,867 --> 01:14:30,075 Without notes, 1633 01:14:30,158 --> 01:14:33,659 started very slow, and built up. 1634 01:14:33,742 --> 01:14:35,075 - You left. You escaped. 1635 01:14:35,158 --> 01:14:37,826 - We left, uh, legally, April '41. 1636 01:14:37,909 --> 01:14:39,909 My mom was a widow. I was 15. 1637 01:14:39,992 --> 01:14:41,117 I was a German national. 1638 01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:43,033 I still have my German passport. 1639 01:14:43,117 --> 01:14:44,409 - You do? - Oh, yes. 1640 01:14:44,492 --> 01:14:46,867 You wanna see it? - Yeah, oh, yeah. 1641 01:14:46,951 --> 01:14:49,951 - It is expired. [laughs] 1642 01:14:50,033 --> 01:14:52,784 - It's expired? - Yes. 1643 01:14:52,867 --> 01:14:56,534 It does have a J on it. 1644 01:14:56,617 --> 01:14:58,367 Jew. [laughs] 1645 01:14:58,450 --> 01:15:02,117 Stefan Theodore, which is then Israel Edlis. 1646 01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:05,409 And I was a student. 1647 01:15:05,492 --> 01:15:09,075 And that's my picture in 1938. 1648 01:15:10,242 --> 01:15:12,283 - What's it like for a Jewish collector 1649 01:15:12,367 --> 01:15:14,242 to have this Cattelan? 1650 01:15:14,325 --> 01:15:16,659 - Well, this is the question that's always been asked. 1651 01:15:16,742 --> 01:15:21,033 Uh, it's a, um--I think it's a fair question. 1652 01:15:21,117 --> 01:15:24,409 It's also irrelevant. 1653 01:15:24,492 --> 01:15:28,075 Because art is art. 1654 01:15:29,575 --> 01:15:32,701 [distant birds calling] 1655 01:15:53,283 --> 01:15:54,701 [answering machine beeps] - Hi, Larry. 1656 01:15:54,784 --> 01:15:56,534 It's Dennes Yares again. 1657 01:15:56,617 --> 01:15:59,534 I'd just like to set up a time for me to come to the studio 1658 01:15:59,617 --> 01:16:02,534 so we can select paintings for the New York exhibition. 1659 01:16:02,617 --> 01:16:04,075 Take care. Bye. 1660 01:16:04,158 --> 01:16:05,283 [stereo clicks] 1661 01:16:05,367 --> 01:16:08,367 [Weber's "Clarinet Concerto No. 1"] 1662 01:16:08,450 --> 01:16:12,992 ♪ ♪ 1663 01:16:13,075 --> 01:16:15,701 - He was a contemporary of Beethoven's. 1664 01:16:15,784 --> 01:16:17,909 - Von Weber? - Von Webern. 1665 01:16:17,992 --> 01:16:19,075 - Von Webern. 1666 01:16:19,158 --> 01:16:26,283 ♪ ♪ 1667 01:17:25,450 --> 01:17:32,534 ♪ ♪ 1668 01:18:06,492 --> 01:18:09,951 - Yeah, to me, that looks like a finished painting. 1669 01:18:10,033 --> 01:18:13,242 They just finish themselves off. 1670 01:18:13,325 --> 01:18:15,575 I can't imagine anything I could do 1671 01:18:15,659 --> 01:18:18,492 except ruin it at this point. 1672 01:18:18,575 --> 01:18:21,492 [snickers] 1673 01:18:21,575 --> 01:18:24,325 Lunch time. [laughs] 1674 01:18:24,409 --> 01:18:27,367 [pensive music] 1675 01:18:27,450 --> 01:18:34,492 ♪ ♪ 1676 01:18:36,283 --> 01:18:38,283 - I have not done my best work. 1677 01:18:38,367 --> 01:18:39,909 I want to achieve that. 1678 01:18:39,992 --> 01:18:43,283 I want to create something that's spectacular. 1679 01:18:43,367 --> 01:18:45,784 ♪ ♪ 1680 01:18:45,867 --> 01:18:48,701 I remember I was invited to Sweden to meet a collector 1681 01:18:48,784 --> 01:18:52,867 to see if I had an idea for a sculpture for their estate. 1682 01:18:52,951 --> 01:18:55,909 You know, and a steam engine came to mind, 1683 01:18:55,992 --> 01:18:57,701 that I would have a large crane, and then 1684 01:18:57,784 --> 01:19:01,158 hanging from the crane, uh, I'd have a big steam engine. 1685 01:19:01,242 --> 01:19:04,659 And when a train functions, there are pistons there. 1686 01:19:04,742 --> 01:19:07,909 So every time it comes in, it's like a human being. 1687 01:19:07,992 --> 01:19:10,075 It's a metaphor. [inhales sharply] 1688 01:19:10,158 --> 01:19:11,242 [exhales sharply] 1689 01:19:11,325 --> 01:19:14,659 [breathing sharply] 1690 01:19:14,742 --> 01:19:16,325 So it's what we do. It's breathing. 1691 01:19:16,409 --> 01:19:19,492 But each time, it's a puff of steam. 1692 01:19:19,575 --> 01:19:21,659 [puffing] 1693 01:19:21,742 --> 01:19:24,283 [breathing sharply] 1694 01:19:24,367 --> 01:19:26,117 And it would follow this bell curve 1695 01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:28,742 and eventually be going faster and faster and faster. 1696 01:19:28,826 --> 01:19:31,909 [mimics train whistle] 1697 01:19:31,992 --> 01:19:33,742 - What would it cost to do? 1698 01:19:33,826 --> 01:19:36,409 - Uh, I mean, I think that I can make it anywhere between 1699 01:19:36,492 --> 01:19:38,701 25 to 50 million. - Hm. 1700 01:19:38,784 --> 01:19:41,784 - But, uh, it's just power and excitement. 1701 01:19:41,867 --> 01:19:44,200 Even--you're right underneath the cow catcher. 1702 01:19:44,283 --> 01:19:46,367 The cow catcher's 30 feet off the ground, 1703 01:19:46,450 --> 01:19:48,158 so you can stand right underneath it, 1704 01:19:48,242 --> 01:19:49,659 and you can yell, you know, "Hey, 1705 01:19:49,742 --> 01:19:53,033 Mom, Dad, look at this," you know? 1706 01:19:53,117 --> 01:19:56,033 [stirring music] 1707 01:19:56,117 --> 01:20:00,575 ♪ ♪ 1708 01:20:00,659 --> 01:20:02,867 - Has Trump been good for the art market? 1709 01:20:02,951 --> 01:20:05,617 I think there's been a fairly good feeling 1710 01:20:05,701 --> 01:20:07,409 among the art collectors this week. 1711 01:20:07,492 --> 01:20:10,033 Fundamentally, the underlying opportunity here is that 1712 01:20:10,117 --> 01:20:11,951 there's just a lot of really very wealthy people, 1713 01:20:12,033 --> 01:20:13,575 and they have a lot of capital to deploy. 1714 01:20:13,659 --> 01:20:16,117 - Well, I think it's definitely a robust market. 1715 01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:18,117 Definitely tremendous depth of bidding, 1716 01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:21,992 particularly for masterpieces, for contemporary works of art. 1717 01:20:22,075 --> 01:20:23,742 This is a very attractive asset class. 1718 01:20:23,826 --> 01:20:25,701 - Are you getting good stuff to sell? 1719 01:20:25,784 --> 01:20:29,951 - Yes, we're starting to see artists who have very little 1720 01:20:30,033 --> 01:20:31,659 depth of trading, very little traction, 1721 01:20:31,742 --> 01:20:34,367 selling for enormous prices if there's confidence 1722 01:20:34,450 --> 01:20:35,742 in that artist's work. 1723 01:20:35,826 --> 01:20:42,909 ♪ ♪ 1724 01:20:44,075 --> 01:20:45,492 - It's totally amazing. 1725 01:20:45,575 --> 01:20:48,575 It's just extraordinary. 1726 01:20:49,742 --> 01:20:53,951 I spent about five days researching her life, 1727 01:20:54,033 --> 01:20:56,450 and her mother died, and what's going on in Nigeria, 1728 01:20:56,534 --> 01:20:58,325 and what's going on with the Nigerian diaspora 1729 01:20:58,409 --> 01:21:01,325 in this country, and I like supporting women. 1730 01:21:01,409 --> 01:21:05,534 Recently, I sold some things, and now I have a little excess, 1731 01:21:05,617 --> 01:21:07,242 and I'd like to take that excess 1732 01:21:07,325 --> 01:21:09,158 and buy this very, very much. 1733 01:21:09,242 --> 01:21:12,033 - Your limit is the estimate, of around $300,000? 1734 01:21:12,117 --> 01:21:14,158 - I'm gonna try. 1735 01:21:14,242 --> 01:21:16,200 I mean, I think the gallery's nervous. 1736 01:21:16,283 --> 01:21:19,200 They're concerned because there's 12 people who want it. 1737 01:21:19,283 --> 01:21:21,200 And once you're playing with sharks, 1738 01:21:21,283 --> 01:21:24,575 it's just--it's a whole different ballgame. 1739 01:21:24,659 --> 01:21:26,033 You know what they say about sharks? 1740 01:21:26,158 --> 01:21:27,867 They have to keep moving, or they die, right? 1741 01:21:27,951 --> 01:21:29,409 And I'm not gonna play that game. 1742 01:21:29,492 --> 01:21:31,492 'Cause I don't want to really be a part of 1743 01:21:31,575 --> 01:21:33,617 the kind of jerk who, like, 1744 01:21:33,701 --> 01:21:37,867 goes so high and kind of outprices the artist 1745 01:21:37,951 --> 01:21:40,242 and contributes potentially to 1746 01:21:40,367 --> 01:21:43,033 a crash-and-burn situation for that artist. 1747 01:21:43,158 --> 01:21:46,033 [pensive music] 1748 01:21:46,158 --> 01:21:53,325 ♪ ♪ 1749 01:22:00,033 --> 01:22:02,617 - This show that's coming up is wonderful. 1750 01:22:02,701 --> 01:22:05,075 You've waited, in a way, a long time for that. 1751 01:22:05,158 --> 01:22:06,951 - No, I haven't waited for it. 1752 01:22:07,033 --> 01:22:08,117 ♪ ♪ 1753 01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:10,701 [door buzzing] 1754 01:22:12,701 --> 01:22:14,450 ♪ ♪ 1755 01:22:14,534 --> 01:22:16,534 [lock buzzing] 1756 01:22:18,867 --> 01:22:19,951 [stapler clacks] 1757 01:22:20,033 --> 01:22:21,158 [knocking on door] 1758 01:22:21,742 --> 01:22:23,617 - Hello. - How are you? 1759 01:22:23,701 --> 01:22:24,784 - Dennis? - Yes. 1760 01:22:24,867 --> 01:22:26,909 Hey, good to see you. 1761 01:22:26,992 --> 01:22:28,409 I was looking for this one-- this one. 1762 01:22:28,492 --> 01:22:29,701 Is this here? 1763 01:22:32,033 --> 01:22:34,534 - Uh, yes, everything's here. 1764 01:22:34,617 --> 01:22:35,659 - 'Cause this is the other one 1765 01:22:35,742 --> 01:22:36,951 I really like, too, for the show. 1766 01:22:37,033 --> 01:22:38,367 This is--I love this one. - Okay. 1767 01:22:38,450 --> 01:22:39,784 Images from the same one-- - But this one-- 1768 01:22:39,867 --> 01:22:42,033 This one I really like, Larry. 1769 01:22:44,242 --> 01:22:47,992 - How soon do we need to have them chosen? 1770 01:22:48,075 --> 01:22:50,826 - Right--well, today. - Okay, let's do it today. 1771 01:22:50,909 --> 01:22:52,409 - Oh, yeah, that's gorgeous. 1772 01:22:52,492 --> 01:22:54,117 - Isn't it great? - It's gorgeous, gorgeous. 1773 01:22:54,200 --> 01:22:55,784 Gorgeous. 1774 01:22:55,867 --> 01:22:57,492 What do you think? Oh, I love it. 1775 01:22:57,575 --> 01:22:58,534 - Oh, yeah? - Just like this. 1776 01:22:58,617 --> 01:22:59,534 - Okay. - Mm-hmm. 1777 01:22:59,617 --> 01:23:00,992 Maybe the square one. 1778 01:23:01,075 --> 01:23:02,701 - Can we get-- - The square one's a show-off. 1779 01:23:02,784 --> 01:23:04,367 - Then why don't we include this for the show? 1780 01:23:04,450 --> 01:23:06,242 That one, and then we'll look at the whole mix. 1781 01:23:06,325 --> 01:23:07,992 It doesn't mean we have to install all of them. 1782 01:23:08,075 --> 01:23:09,784 - Right. Okay. - We can have it on hand. 1783 01:23:09,867 --> 01:23:12,659 - New York's gotta see it. - New York's gonna see it. 1784 01:23:12,742 --> 01:23:14,909 That's why we're here. [chuckles] 1785 01:23:14,992 --> 01:23:18,242 If you look historically, this dialogue between 1786 01:23:18,325 --> 01:23:23,409 artist and dealer brings to life the art. 1787 01:23:23,492 --> 01:23:26,617 And unless you have that right mix, 1788 01:23:26,701 --> 01:23:28,409 you can be forgotten. 1789 01:23:28,492 --> 01:23:31,867 It's no different from a great pianist playing 1790 01:23:31,951 --> 01:23:36,075 with the right orchestra under the right conductor. 1791 01:23:36,158 --> 01:23:38,617 And sometimes you just miss it. 1792 01:23:38,701 --> 01:23:42,909 He just kind of missed, but not anymore. 1793 01:23:42,992 --> 01:23:46,158 He's found. [laughs] 1794 01:23:46,242 --> 01:23:47,617 - Cool, just again... - Love it. 1795 01:23:47,701 --> 01:23:49,784 - Yeah. Let's go eat. 1796 01:23:49,867 --> 01:23:52,784 [upbeat music] 1797 01:23:52,867 --> 01:23:55,242 ♪ ♪ 1798 01:23:55,325 --> 01:23:58,492 - So I'm resting my head. It's, like, a way of relaxing. 1799 01:23:58,575 --> 01:24:01,409 - Stressed? - No, just tired. 1800 01:24:01,492 --> 01:24:02,909 I'm not really stressed. 1801 01:24:02,992 --> 01:24:04,826 It's gonna-- it'll be a good sale. 1802 01:24:04,909 --> 01:24:08,075 ♪ ♪ 1803 01:24:08,158 --> 01:24:09,867 They're gone? 1804 01:24:09,951 --> 01:24:12,075 Can I--want me to-- oh, they're taking it down now? 1805 01:24:12,158 --> 01:24:13,367 That's it? 1806 01:24:13,450 --> 01:24:14,575 Bye. Look it. 1807 01:24:14,659 --> 01:24:17,492 There it is, 653-1, Richter 1988. 1808 01:24:17,575 --> 01:24:19,158 Just off the wall here. 1809 01:24:19,242 --> 01:24:24,909 ♪ ♪ 1810 01:24:24,992 --> 01:24:26,742 - And there's a lonely, lonely woman, yeah. 1811 01:24:26,826 --> 01:24:28,242 - De Kooning. "Woman in Landscape." 1812 01:24:28,325 --> 01:24:31,325 - Is that what it is? - 1968, yep. 1813 01:24:31,409 --> 01:24:33,325 - Where's the woman, where's the landscape? 1814 01:24:33,409 --> 01:24:34,867 - I'll tell you-- I'll give you a hint. 1815 01:24:34,951 --> 01:24:36,075 That little green in the corner, 1816 01:24:36,158 --> 01:24:38,117 that's the landscape, okay? 1817 01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:40,992 Bye. 1818 01:24:41,075 --> 01:24:42,283 Bye! 1819 01:24:42,367 --> 01:24:45,200 ♪ ♪ 1820 01:24:45,283 --> 01:24:49,200 - Oh, auctions, auctions, auctions make me sick, 1821 01:24:49,283 --> 01:24:53,575 only because what I'm doing in those showrooms is saying 1822 01:24:53,659 --> 01:24:55,617 good-bye for the rest of my life 1823 01:24:55,701 --> 01:24:58,242 to every work of art I'm seeing, 1824 01:24:58,325 --> 01:25:01,367 because all of it is now too expensive 1825 01:25:01,450 --> 01:25:05,951 for any institution to buy, except maybe the Getty, 1826 01:25:06,033 --> 01:25:08,701 and they can only buy one thing a year. 1827 01:25:08,784 --> 01:25:12,867 I kind of wish that collectors would give back, 1828 01:25:12,951 --> 01:25:15,283 but I don't know that I would give back. 1829 01:25:15,367 --> 01:25:17,951 So it's gonna hang in some apartment 1830 01:25:18,033 --> 01:25:21,325 in London or Shanghai or New York, 1831 01:25:21,409 --> 01:25:24,575 and I won't see it again for my natural life. 1832 01:25:24,659 --> 01:25:27,659 [soft dramatic music] 1833 01:25:27,742 --> 01:25:31,826 ♪ ♪ 1834 01:25:31,909 --> 01:25:33,492 - Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, 1835 01:25:33,575 --> 01:25:35,325 and a very warm welcome to Sotheby's. 1836 01:25:35,409 --> 01:25:37,325 My name is Oliver Barker, and I'm delighted to be 1837 01:25:37,409 --> 01:25:39,617 your auctioneer for tonight's sale of contemporary art. 1838 01:25:39,701 --> 01:25:41,909 And we start with our great privilege, 1839 01:25:41,992 --> 01:25:43,242 with the triumph of painting, 1840 01:25:43,325 --> 01:25:45,409 the Steven and Ann Ames collection. 1841 01:25:45,492 --> 01:25:47,492 And we'll start with this evening's George Condo, 1842 01:25:47,575 --> 01:25:49,617 "The Woman on Brown Chair" from 2007. 1843 01:25:49,701 --> 01:25:51,158 I'm gonna start the bidding at 300,000. 1844 01:25:51,242 --> 01:25:55,158 350,000, 400,000. George O'Dell at 600,000. 1845 01:25:55,242 --> 01:25:57,701 650,000, 700,000. 1846 01:25:57,784 --> 01:25:59,742 800,000 in a new place. 1847 01:25:59,826 --> 01:26:01,784 It's your bid, sir. Thank you. 1848 01:26:01,867 --> 01:26:04,701 And we'll move on to the "Woman Landscape," $1 million. 1849 01:26:04,784 --> 01:26:07,200 1,100,000, 1,300,000 now. 1850 01:26:07,283 --> 01:26:10,242 1,500,000, 1,800,000, 1851 01:26:10,325 --> 01:26:13,701 2,350,000. Lot number six. 1852 01:26:13,784 --> 01:26:16,200 Gerhard Richter paintings, the "A B, St James." 1853 01:26:16,283 --> 01:26:18,534 And I'm gonna start the bidding here at $16 million. 1854 01:26:18,617 --> 01:26:21,951 17 million, $18 million, 19 million now. 1855 01:26:22,033 --> 01:26:24,200 $20 million now, fair warning. 1856 01:26:24,283 --> 01:26:25,283 [gavel bangs] It's yours, sir. 1857 01:26:25,367 --> 01:26:26,325 Thank you very much indeed. 1858 01:26:26,409 --> 01:26:27,701 We go on to lot number 30, 1859 01:26:27,784 --> 01:26:29,158 the wonderful "A B, Still" painting. 1860 01:26:29,242 --> 01:26:31,575 Start the bidding here at $14 million. 1861 01:26:31,659 --> 01:26:34,867 $15 million, $16 million, $17, $18 million, 1862 01:26:34,951 --> 01:26:37,242 $20 million here, $21 million, 1863 01:26:37,325 --> 01:26:39,701 $22 million now, $23 million, 1864 01:26:39,784 --> 01:26:41,867 $24 million, $25 million, 1865 01:26:41,951 --> 01:26:45,992 25,500,000, 26,500,000. $27 million. 1866 01:26:46,075 --> 01:26:49,826 27,500,000, $29 million, $29,500,000. 1867 01:26:49,909 --> 01:26:52,575 $30 million now. Fair warning now. 1868 01:26:52,659 --> 01:26:57,784 The very last sign at $30 million. 1869 01:26:57,867 --> 01:26:59,909 Sold to you, Galas. Thank you very much indeed. 1870 01:26:59,992 --> 01:27:03,033 And we have the Crosby here from 2012, the "DROWN." 1871 01:27:03,117 --> 01:27:06,283 And I'll start at 100,000, 120,000, 150,000 1872 01:27:06,367 --> 01:27:08,826 180,000, 200,000-- Thank you, Amy. 1873 01:27:08,909 --> 01:27:13,283 250,000, 300,000, 350,000 now. 1874 01:27:13,367 --> 01:27:15,617 At 350,000. Try 4, sir. 1875 01:27:15,701 --> 01:27:17,409 400,000. 1876 01:27:17,492 --> 01:27:20,367 ♪ ♪ 1877 01:27:20,450 --> 01:27:22,325 Amy, against you now. 1878 01:27:22,409 --> 01:27:26,492 400,000, Leslie's now. At 400,000, 450,000, 1879 01:27:26,575 --> 01:27:30,450 500,000, 550,000. So your bid, madam, is 600,000. 1880 01:27:30,534 --> 01:27:31,992 650,000. 1881 01:27:32,075 --> 01:27:35,742 700,000 now. 750,000. 1882 01:27:35,826 --> 01:27:37,784 800,000 now. 1883 01:27:37,867 --> 01:27:41,117 850,000. There it is at 850. 1884 01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:45,200 It's 850,000. 900,000 now. 1885 01:27:45,283 --> 01:27:47,784 At $900,000. 1886 01:27:47,867 --> 01:27:49,242 It's with Alex at the desk, 1887 01:27:49,325 --> 01:27:50,450 and I'm gonna sell it this time. 1888 01:27:50,534 --> 01:27:55,909 Fair warning, at $900,000. 1889 01:27:55,992 --> 01:27:58,909 Thank you, Alex. L0075. [applause] 1890 01:27:58,992 --> 01:28:00,909 And thank you, Amy, to your bidder as well. 1891 01:28:00,992 --> 01:28:02,033 Thank you very much indeed. 1892 01:28:02,117 --> 01:28:03,367 [applause] 1893 01:28:03,450 --> 01:28:04,701 - Hmm. 1894 01:28:07,409 --> 01:28:08,992 [exhales, soft laugh] 1895 01:28:09,075 --> 01:28:12,575 "DROWN" was sold at a show from a few years ago, 1896 01:28:12,659 --> 01:28:15,409 and the person who bought it resold it. 1897 01:28:15,492 --> 01:28:17,992 - They brought it to auction? - They brought it to auction. 1898 01:28:18,075 --> 01:28:19,283 Um-- - They flipped it, basically. 1899 01:28:19,367 --> 01:28:20,826 - Yeah. - Is that-- 1900 01:28:20,909 --> 01:28:24,075 That's what happened? - That's what happened. 1901 01:28:24,158 --> 01:28:26,367 - I see. - Yeah. 1902 01:28:27,659 --> 01:28:29,117 - You, so-- - [laughs] 1903 01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:32,325 - So a flipper bought it. - A flipper bought it. 1904 01:28:32,409 --> 01:28:33,742 When I'm just thinking of 1905 01:28:33,826 --> 01:28:35,158 what success means for me... - Yes, yes? 1906 01:28:35,242 --> 01:28:39,117 - I'm very interested in the long term. 1907 01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:42,117 Um, so it's not about making a lot of money 1908 01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:43,492 in the next five years 1909 01:28:43,575 --> 01:28:45,367 and buying a beautiful house in LA, 1910 01:28:45,450 --> 01:28:46,575 although that would be good, 1911 01:28:46,659 --> 01:28:48,701 but that's not my driving force. 1912 01:28:48,784 --> 01:28:52,158 I'm very--because it's-- I keep thinking long term, 1913 01:28:52,242 --> 01:28:53,951 long term, long term. 1914 01:28:54,033 --> 01:28:55,951 Um, what matters in the long term? 1915 01:28:56,033 --> 01:28:59,367 The institutions you get into, the shows you get into. 1916 01:28:59,450 --> 01:29:02,283 - So you want your work in museums? 1917 01:29:02,367 --> 01:29:04,409 - Yeah, museums are, for a lack of a better word, 1918 01:29:04,492 --> 01:29:07,701 the gatekeepers of culture, to some extent. 1919 01:29:07,784 --> 01:29:11,200 I mean, you walk into-- once you cross that threshold 1920 01:29:11,283 --> 01:29:12,742 of the door, you're walking in, 1921 01:29:12,826 --> 01:29:14,492 and in your mind, you're thinking, 1922 01:29:14,575 --> 01:29:16,701 "These are works that matter." 1923 01:29:16,784 --> 01:29:19,909 Not just for our generation, but for future generations. 1924 01:29:19,992 --> 01:29:23,867 So maybe things happen and I fall out of favor 1925 01:29:23,951 --> 01:29:25,701 in a number of years. 1926 01:29:25,784 --> 01:29:27,075 It'll go into storage. 1927 01:29:27,158 --> 01:29:29,742 But someday, maybe in 50 years, 1928 01:29:29,826 --> 01:29:32,158 maybe in 70, maybe in 150, 1929 01:29:32,242 --> 01:29:33,784 it could come out. 1930 01:29:33,867 --> 01:29:35,492 It doesn't just vanish. 1931 01:29:37,492 --> 01:29:39,575 [soft music] 1932 01:29:39,659 --> 01:29:41,033 - Now to a landmark donation 1933 01:29:41,117 --> 01:29:42,325 for the Art Institute of Chicago. 1934 01:29:42,409 --> 01:29:43,742 The museum says 1935 01:29:43,826 --> 01:29:45,992 it's the largest gift in its history. 1936 01:29:46,075 --> 01:29:48,951 42 iconic pieces of contemporary art. 1937 01:29:49,033 --> 01:29:52,826 It's estimated to be worth about $400 million. 1938 01:29:52,909 --> 01:29:55,742 The gift includes nine works by Andy Warhol, 1939 01:29:55,826 --> 01:30:00,742 including "Twelve Jackies," "Flowers," and "Liz 1940 01:30:00,826 --> 01:30:03,075 The President of the Art Institute said in a statement, 1941 01:30:03,158 --> 01:30:05,200 "We are so grateful to Stefan and Gael 1942 01:30:05,283 --> 01:30:06,951 "for the extraordinary gift. 1943 01:30:07,033 --> 01:30:09,909 "It allows us to build one of the richest narratives 1944 01:30:09,992 --> 01:30:12,075 of art under one roof." 1945 01:30:12,158 --> 01:30:18,909 ♪ ♪ 1946 01:30:18,992 --> 01:30:20,492 [loud beep] 1947 01:30:20,575 --> 01:30:23,701 - Oh, too close, too close. 1948 01:30:25,033 --> 01:30:26,534 It's so beautiful, this sculpture. 1949 01:30:26,617 --> 01:30:28,951 The heart shape that it makes. 1950 01:30:29,033 --> 01:30:31,450 [loud beep] 1951 01:30:31,534 --> 01:30:33,450 [beeping] 1952 01:30:33,534 --> 01:30:36,492 - You have to come close to see the glitter. 1953 01:30:36,575 --> 01:30:38,200 There's glitter in there. 1954 01:30:38,283 --> 01:30:40,575 - You've given this incredible gift to the museum. 1955 01:30:40,659 --> 01:30:42,075 Why? 1956 01:30:42,158 --> 01:30:45,659 - Well, the simple answer is no grandkids. 1957 01:30:45,742 --> 01:30:49,450 We had had conversations with the museum, and I said, 1958 01:30:49,534 --> 01:30:51,450 "You know, I'm gonna give you a picture, and it's gonna 1959 01:30:51,534 --> 01:30:54,784 end up in storage. That's not good enough." 1960 01:30:54,867 --> 01:30:58,242 So they said, "We're gonna clean our existing gallery, 1961 01:30:58,325 --> 01:31:01,534 "and it'll stay up like you want for 25 years 1962 01:31:01,617 --> 01:31:05,283 "in the gallery, and another 25 years mixed up, 1963 01:31:05,367 --> 01:31:07,033 but still up." 1964 01:31:07,117 --> 01:31:09,742 - Seeing it here today, do you miss it at home? 1965 01:31:09,826 --> 01:31:11,325 - All our walls are full. 1966 01:31:11,409 --> 01:31:12,826 [both laughing] 1967 01:31:12,909 --> 01:31:16,450 No more room at the inn. - No, it's nice to see it-- 1968 01:31:16,534 --> 01:31:19,033 - No, we'll make sure that we don't miss it. 1969 01:31:19,117 --> 01:31:20,826 If we really miss it, we can come down 1970 01:31:20,909 --> 01:31:22,617 and have another look. 1971 01:31:23,033 --> 01:31:24,409 - Now, tell me about the Liz. 1972 01:31:24,492 --> 01:31:26,200 - That's the only partial gift. 1973 01:31:26,283 --> 01:31:27,575 Well, I gave the Liz at 10% 1974 01:31:27,659 --> 01:31:28,659 because I just got it. 1975 01:31:28,742 --> 01:31:29,992 I'd like to live with it. 1976 01:31:30,075 --> 01:31:31,158 You can have it for six months, 1977 01:31:31,242 --> 01:31:32,826 I'll have it for the rest. 1978 01:31:32,909 --> 01:31:35,283 Meanwhile, get me a poster, get me something. 1979 01:31:35,409 --> 01:31:39,242 And then Gael came back with an exact copy, 1980 01:31:39,325 --> 01:31:41,242 including the wrinkles in the canvas. 1981 01:31:41,325 --> 01:31:42,617 [laughs] 1982 01:31:42,701 --> 01:31:44,367 So we're happy with the copy. 1983 01:31:44,450 --> 01:31:47,701 Let them have the real stuff. 1984 01:31:47,784 --> 01:31:50,534 It's amazing what technology can do now. 1985 01:31:50,617 --> 01:31:52,701 - Doesn't this raise a little bit of a question, though, too, 1986 01:31:52,784 --> 01:31:56,033 about even, what is-- what is a piece of art 1987 01:31:56,117 --> 01:31:59,117 if it is reproducible like that? 1988 01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:03,033 - You're--absolutely, you put your finger in the wound. 1989 01:32:03,117 --> 01:32:05,033 That's it. What is a piece of art? 1990 01:32:05,117 --> 01:32:07,409 Absolu--that's a question. I can't answer it, 1991 01:32:07,492 --> 01:32:09,617 but I will-- I certainly agree with you. 1992 01:32:09,701 --> 01:32:13,367 ♪ ♪ 1993 01:32:13,450 --> 01:32:15,409 Looks good there, doesn't it? 1994 01:32:15,492 --> 01:32:18,325 Makes you feel like you've done something. 1995 01:32:18,409 --> 01:32:20,242 Everybody would like to think, in life, 1996 01:32:20,325 --> 01:32:21,992 that they've done something. 1997 01:32:22,075 --> 01:32:28,033 ♪ ♪ 1998 01:32:28,117 --> 01:32:31,075 - I'm sad that too much of their conversation 1999 01:32:31,158 --> 01:32:32,742 has been about the money, 2000 01:32:32,826 --> 01:32:36,617 the shiny thing that's easiest to talk about, 2001 01:32:36,701 --> 01:32:39,325 but nobody's thinking about that. 2002 01:32:39,409 --> 01:32:41,325 Except you. Not you. 2003 01:32:41,409 --> 01:32:43,409 The collective you. 2004 01:32:43,492 --> 01:32:45,117 So you can hate us. 2005 01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:47,325 Everybody should make fun of the art world. 2006 01:32:47,409 --> 01:32:48,742 Is it absurd? 2007 01:32:48,826 --> 01:32:52,742 Yes. Is it necessary? 2008 01:32:52,826 --> 01:32:57,909 Probably no more necessary than religion, I would argue. 2009 01:32:57,992 --> 01:33:01,742 You need to eat. You need not to be killed. 2010 01:33:01,826 --> 01:33:04,283 You need to have some measure of freedom. 2011 01:33:04,367 --> 01:33:09,033 So I'm not here to tell you art matters more than freedom, 2012 01:33:09,117 --> 01:33:12,117 but I am here to say that art is part of being alive 2013 01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:14,242 as much as Mozart is. 2014 01:33:16,075 --> 01:33:18,534 [strumming guitar] 2015 01:33:20,409 --> 01:33:24,784 - It's called "Pictures From Life's Other Side." 2016 01:33:24,867 --> 01:33:28,617 ♪ In the world's mighty gallery of pictures ♪ 2017 01:33:28,701 --> 01:33:33,117 ♪ Hang the scenes that are painted from life ♪ 2018 01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:36,992 ♪ There hang scenes of love and of passion ♪ 2019 01:33:37,075 --> 01:33:41,367 ♪ There hang pictures of peace and of strife ♪ 2020 01:33:41,450 --> 01:33:43,158 ♪ Pictures of love and of beauty ♪ 2021 01:33:43,242 --> 01:33:44,784 [orchestra accompanies] 2022 01:33:44,867 --> 01:33:48,742 ♪ Of old age and the blushing young bride ♪ 2023 01:33:48,826 --> 01:33:53,158 ♪ They all hang on the wall but the saddest of all ♪ 2024 01:33:53,242 --> 01:33:57,701 ♪ Are the pictures from life's other side ♪ 2025 01:33:57,784 --> 01:34:01,742 ♪ There's the picture from life's other side ♪ 2026 01:34:01,826 --> 01:34:06,200 ♪ Someone has fell by the way ♪ 2027 01:34:06,283 --> 01:34:10,033 ♪ Life has gone out with the tide ♪ 2028 01:34:10,117 --> 01:34:14,450 ♪ That might have been happy someday ♪ 2029 01:34:14,534 --> 01:34:18,701 ♪ It's a pearl old mother at home ♪ 2030 01:34:18,784 --> 01:34:22,701 ♪ She's watching and waitin' alone ♪ 2031 01:34:22,784 --> 01:34:27,450 ♪ Just longing to hear from a loved one so dear ♪ 2032 01:34:27,534 --> 01:34:30,575 ♪ Just a picture from life's other side ♪ 2033 01:34:30,659 --> 01:34:31,701 Hey. - Hi. 2034 01:34:31,784 --> 01:34:34,033 - Nice to see you again. 2035 01:34:34,117 --> 01:34:40,951 ♪ ♪ 2036 01:34:41,033 --> 01:34:42,701 Hi. - So great. 2037 01:34:42,784 --> 01:34:45,492 - Really good. Really. 2038 01:34:45,575 --> 01:34:47,158 - It's a magnificent color. 2039 01:34:47,242 --> 01:34:49,242 - The paintings are incredible. 2040 01:34:49,325 --> 01:34:50,701 - Eh, thank you. - Yeah. 2041 01:34:50,784 --> 01:34:52,367 - Beautiful stuff, thanks. - Hey, thank you. 2042 01:34:52,450 --> 01:34:54,409 - Thanks a lot, man. - I love this new work. 2043 01:34:54,492 --> 01:34:56,283 The color's incredible. 2044 01:34:56,367 --> 01:34:59,534 - You are incredible. Never change. 2045 01:34:59,617 --> 01:35:01,242 - Thank you. - It's wonderful. 2046 01:35:01,325 --> 01:35:03,909 ♪ ♪ 2047 01:35:03,992 --> 01:35:07,075 - It's--it's the paintings that motivate everything. 2048 01:35:07,158 --> 01:35:10,158 [stirring orchestral music] 2049 01:35:10,242 --> 01:35:17,325 ♪ ♪ 2050 01:36:10,701 --> 01:36:13,701 [Little Walter's "Off the Wall"] 2051 01:36:13,784 --> 01:36:20,867 ♪ ♪ 2052 01:37:09,617 --> 01:37:16,659 ♪ ♪ 2053 01:37:39,826 --> 01:37:41,909 [beeping] 2054 01:38:28,283 --> 01:38:30,242 - At 400 million, 2055 01:38:30,325 --> 01:38:33,492 Leonardo's "Salvator Mundi" selling here at Christie's. 2056 01:38:33,575 --> 01:38:35,117 $400 million is the bid. 2057 01:38:35,200 --> 01:38:38,117 And the piece is sold. [gavel bangs] 2058 01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:41,367 [cheers and applause] 2059 01:38:44,283 --> 01:38:46,867 [bright tone]