1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,647 Do you believe you did the things they say you did? 2 00:00:03,648 --> 00:00:07,260 If I did, I wasn't arrested, I was rescued. 3 00:00:07,460 --> 00:00:09,397 The truth of a confession is immaterial. 4 00:00:09,398 --> 00:00:12,622 What is of crucial importance is how the confession was obtained. 5 00:00:12,657 --> 00:00:15,181 I'm suggesting Gibson deliberately provoked him. 6 00:00:15,236 --> 00:00:17,137 How were we to know she was that desperate? 7 00:00:17,171 --> 00:00:19,662 Now you can add attempted murder to her list of charges. 8 00:00:19,682 --> 00:00:22,312 - Are you Sean Healy? - Yes! 9 00:00:22,339 --> 00:00:24,289 Will you give this to Paul for me? 10 00:00:24,409 --> 00:00:27,619 Paul Spector is due to be moved today. 11 00:00:27,667 --> 00:00:29,166 The next stage of his 12 00:00:29,526 --> 00:00:31,961 assessments are about to begin. 13 00:00:34,403 --> 00:00:38,301 Mr Spector. I'm August Larson, 14 00:00:38,627 --> 00:00:41,749 - the lead clinician here. - I need you to go to London. 15 00:00:41,752 --> 00:00:44,452 I don't think we can afford to dismiss the connection 16 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:47,116 between David Alvarez and Paul Spector. 17 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,240 We've had a request to disclose your dream diary. 18 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,993 He's in hospital, he's incapacitated 19 00:00:53,113 --> 00:00:55,688 and yet he's still infecting the lives of every person 20 00:00:55,728 --> 00:00:57,068 he comes into contact with. 21 00:00:57,446 --> 00:00:59,727 If a person is able to do to others 22 00:00:59,741 --> 00:01:01,516 what he fears may be done to him, 23 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:03,936 he may no longer be afraid. 24 00:01:04,140 --> 00:01:07,239 Doctor, I understand that for you he's a patient, 25 00:01:07,359 --> 00:01:10,857 someone worthy of understanding, compassion, even. 26 00:01:11,150 --> 00:01:12,655 But to me he's a... 27 00:01:12,775 --> 00:01:14,253 He's a sexual predator. 28 00:01:14,462 --> 00:01:16,629 I'm Mark Bailey, who are you? 29 00:01:17,095 --> 00:01:19,044 I'm told I'm the Belfast Strangler. 30 00:01:34,507 --> 00:01:36,917 Detective Superintendent Gibson? 31 00:01:37,489 --> 00:01:40,395 Dr Larson. What can I do for you? 32 00:01:40,417 --> 00:01:42,530 Mr Spector's defence team 33 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,662 have sent me some excerpts from your diary. 34 00:01:45,693 --> 00:01:47,963 The pages where it is alleged 35 00:01:47,963 --> 00:01:49,944 Mr Spector made an entry. 36 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:58,400 I see. 37 00:02:00,123 --> 00:02:01,800 I sense your discomfort. 38 00:02:03,397 --> 00:02:04,940 I have no doubt, 39 00:02:05,006 --> 00:02:07,154 after seeing the entry he made, 40 00:02:07,187 --> 00:02:11,110 knowing that he'd read your journal felt like a violation. 41 00:02:11,437 --> 00:02:12,730 Yes. 42 00:02:13,302 --> 00:02:15,250 May I ask you, 43 00:02:15,965 --> 00:02:18,051 how long have you kept a diary? 44 00:02:19,614 --> 00:02:21,215 All of my life. 45 00:02:22,646 --> 00:02:25,094 But not really since I've been in Belfast. 46 00:02:26,220 --> 00:02:27,429 I don't follow. 47 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,123 What Spector wrote in was more of a dream journal. 48 00:02:34,883 --> 00:02:36,974 Why do you keep a dream journal? 49 00:02:39,955 --> 00:02:41,414 Why do you want to know? 50 00:02:42,891 --> 00:02:44,483 Curiosity, probably. 51 00:02:46,503 --> 00:02:49,916 Initially, I kept it as an investigative tool. 52 00:02:51,176 --> 00:02:54,372 I trained myself to wake up in the middle of the night and... 53 00:02:55,934 --> 00:02:57,935 ... write down random thoughts. 54 00:02:58,812 --> 00:03:00,787 Then I guess since then, it's 55 00:03:02,279 --> 00:03:04,704 become a compulsion, of sorts. 56 00:03:05,936 --> 00:03:08,854 So you see dreams as a kind of problem-solving? 57 00:03:10,869 --> 00:03:14,348 I think maybe the sleeping brain makes 58 00:03:14,620 --> 00:03:17,905 connections more quickly than the waking mind does. 59 00:03:18,953 --> 00:03:20,734 That is certainly possible. 60 00:03:24,134 --> 00:03:26,900 I will treat the entries with respect. 61 00:03:27,654 --> 00:03:28,774 Thank you. 62 00:03:30,141 --> 00:03:31,934 Goodnight, Dr Larson. 63 00:03:32,578 --> 00:03:33,932 Goodnight. 64 00:04:06,889 --> 00:04:10,261 - Synced and corrected by chamallow - - www.addic7ed.com - 65 00:05:19,675 --> 00:05:21,790 Oi! What's all this! 66 00:06:07,054 --> 00:06:08,600 Paul Spector, 67 00:06:08,641 --> 00:06:11,854 a 32-year-old, right-handed male. 68 00:06:12,068 --> 00:06:14,544 Referred from the criminal justice system 69 00:06:14,564 --> 00:06:17,429 for appraisal with regard to his fitness 70 00:06:17,492 --> 00:06:19,434 to plead and stand trial. 71 00:06:20,374 --> 00:06:23,984 The charge sheet gives you an idea of the alleged crimes. 72 00:06:24,974 --> 00:06:26,655 Shot in police custody, 73 00:06:26,682 --> 00:06:28,972 he underwent a splenectomy 74 00:06:28,993 --> 00:06:33,078 so we should be mindful of his post-operative condition 75 00:06:33,134 --> 00:06:35,402 and ongoing medical needs. 76 00:06:36,589 --> 00:06:39,724 In hospital, after regaining consciousness, 77 00:06:39,939 --> 00:06:43,151 he presented with severe retrograde amnesia 78 00:06:43,171 --> 00:06:46,924 in the absence of significant anterograde amnesia. 79 00:06:47,729 --> 00:06:51,614 I'm told Paul Spector never knew his biological father. 80 00:06:52,099 --> 00:06:55,165 His mother, Mary Garrison, 81 00:06:55,408 --> 00:06:59,175 committed suicide when he was eight years old. 82 00:07:00,825 --> 00:07:02,462 She hanged herself. 83 00:07:03,836 --> 00:07:07,089 After a period of two years in a foster home 84 00:07:07,209 --> 00:07:11,549 that appears to have been a stable and safe environment, 85 00:07:12,414 --> 00:07:15,469 he was transferred to Gortnacull House. 86 00:07:15,694 --> 00:07:17,454 He was there for three years. 87 00:07:18,292 --> 00:07:22,134 At 13 he was sent to another home in the South, 88 00:07:22,134 --> 00:07:25,076 Dundalk, County Louth. 89 00:07:25,513 --> 00:07:29,003 Apart from a very agitated first wake up 90 00:07:29,211 --> 00:07:32,644 and a violent emotional response 91 00:07:32,764 --> 00:07:36,355 to being presented with some of the evidence against him, 92 00:07:36,414 --> 00:07:40,654 the hospital reports him having been docile, 93 00:07:40,654 --> 00:07:42,348 co-operative, 94 00:07:42,910 --> 00:07:45,192 friendly, even. 95 00:07:45,774 --> 00:07:47,460 It is also very possible 96 00:07:47,481 --> 00:07:52,197 he is someone who acts out in a dangerous and illegal manner. 97 00:07:52,558 --> 00:07:56,772 The police officer Detective Superintendent Gibson... 98 00:07:57,257 --> 00:08:00,997 ... who at this stage might well be the person who knows him best, 99 00:08:01,014 --> 00:08:03,590 suggests he has a narcissistic, 100 00:08:03,639 --> 00:08:05,657 sadistic personality. 101 00:08:06,504 --> 00:08:09,417 With regard to his memory loss, 102 00:08:09,784 --> 00:08:11,380 he could be feigning, 103 00:08:11,734 --> 00:08:14,995 exaggerating or simply 104 00:08:15,695 --> 00:08:17,166 malingering. 105 00:08:17,574 --> 00:08:21,467 So I suggest we approach Mr Spector with... 106 00:08:21,939 --> 00:08:24,713 respectful scepticism. 107 00:08:27,334 --> 00:08:29,683 The daily structure is 8 to 9, breakfast, 108 00:08:29,718 --> 00:08:31,452 9 to 10, self-care tasks, 109 00:08:31,494 --> 00:08:34,054 washing, dressing, laundry, bed-making. 110 00:08:34,174 --> 00:08:36,974 10 to 12 is therapy or a 45-minute activity... 111 00:08:36,974 --> 00:08:38,694 art, music whatever. 112 00:08:38,694 --> 00:08:40,694 12 to 2 is lunch and rest period. 113 00:08:40,694 --> 00:08:44,583 2 to 4 is therapy or further activity... 114 00:08:44,625 --> 00:08:48,460 life skills, relaxation, self-awareness, cooking. 115 00:08:48,994 --> 00:08:52,303 5 to 6.30 is dinner and rest. 116 00:08:52,334 --> 00:08:54,856 And 6.30 to 9.30 is leisure... 117 00:08:54,863 --> 00:08:56,403 pool, watching a movie. 118 00:08:56,611 --> 00:08:59,205 Back in your room at 9.30. Lights out at 10. 119 00:08:59,691 --> 00:09:01,751 Dr Larson will see you later this morning. 120 00:09:01,966 --> 00:09:03,770 Collect your breakfast there. 121 00:09:04,706 --> 00:09:06,752 All right? Eh, wee fry. Just a wee one. 122 00:09:07,057 --> 00:09:08,614 You all right, mate? 123 00:09:38,734 --> 00:09:40,554 Ma'am. 124 00:09:40,595 --> 00:09:43,085 - Yeah. - I have a copy of the letter you asked for. 125 00:09:44,702 --> 00:09:46,014 Thanks. 126 00:09:56,466 --> 00:09:58,949 "I probably shouldn't write this letter to you 127 00:09:59,005 --> 00:10:01,828 but this is hard evidence to you that I exist, 128 00:10:01,948 --> 00:10:03,930 exist for you, Paul. 129 00:10:04,506 --> 00:10:06,441 I can feel you all over me, 130 00:10:06,829 --> 00:10:08,730 like that night in your study, 131 00:10:09,534 --> 00:10:11,615 I feel you crawling through my veins, 132 00:10:11,628 --> 00:10:12,953 through my mind, 133 00:10:13,466 --> 00:10:16,213 you grab and suffocate my thoughts. 134 00:10:17,351 --> 00:10:19,793 I am in pain for your pleasure. 135 00:10:20,254 --> 00:10:22,310 I have forsaken my friends, 136 00:10:22,491 --> 00:10:24,447 I have forsaken my family, 137 00:10:25,244 --> 00:10:27,901 I am choosing my next move carefully. 138 00:10:28,859 --> 00:10:30,739 Their love is fake. 139 00:10:30,859 --> 00:10:33,798 Fuck everyone who wants me to step into the light. 140 00:10:34,311 --> 00:10:36,302 It will burn my skin off. 141 00:10:36,829 --> 00:10:38,974 The skin that I will carve our poetry into 142 00:10:38,974 --> 00:10:41,116 so you will be with me for ever. 143 00:10:42,087 --> 00:10:45,756 I yearn for you when I stare into the starless midnight. 144 00:10:45,876 --> 00:10:48,399 You are the vast expanse of the sky. 145 00:10:49,508 --> 00:10:52,977 I don't regret a thing, because the pain is all for you. 146 00:10:53,462 --> 00:10:56,910 I will still love you when I finally know everything about you. 147 00:10:57,166 --> 00:10:58,789 That's true love." 148 00:10:59,941 --> 00:11:01,855 I fucking hate this. 149 00:11:02,126 --> 00:11:04,110 I hate being without you. 150 00:11:04,512 --> 00:11:07,633 I would kill them all if I could. Crush them. 151 00:11:07,694 --> 00:11:10,269 Crush them and their pathetic lives." 152 00:11:18,654 --> 00:11:22,589 Ma'am, my client accepts that she has breached her bail conditions. 153 00:11:22,769 --> 00:11:25,141 Her attempts to contact Mr Spector, 154 00:11:25,197 --> 00:11:27,430 the fact that she stayed away from her home address, 155 00:11:27,458 --> 00:11:28,974 breaching her curfew. 156 00:11:29,192 --> 00:11:31,362 But there are mitigating factors, Ma'am, 157 00:11:31,375 --> 00:11:33,494 that I'd like to draw your attention to. 158 00:11:34,534 --> 00:11:37,334 The defendant lost her father when she was aged 13 159 00:11:37,357 --> 00:11:39,054 in a motorcycle accident, 160 00:11:39,232 --> 00:11:41,363 a shockingly violent accident. 161 00:11:41,630 --> 00:11:43,434 She is now just 16 years old 162 00:11:43,451 --> 00:11:46,486 and the best place for her to be at this difficult time is at home. 163 00:11:46,924 --> 00:11:49,199 Her mother, who is present today in court, 164 00:11:49,232 --> 00:11:51,874 is prepared to stand surety. I have checked with the police 165 00:11:51,935 --> 00:11:53,523 and they are happy as to the source 166 00:11:53,539 --> 00:11:55,210 of the monies offered by Mrs Benedetto 167 00:11:55,242 --> 00:11:56,751 to support the suretyship, 168 00:11:56,785 --> 00:11:59,272 - namely savings she has accumulated to... - Mr McSwain, 169 00:11:59,288 --> 00:12:00,803 let me just stop you there. 170 00:12:01,614 --> 00:12:05,592 Now, your client is not just in breach of her bail conditions, 171 00:12:05,648 --> 00:12:07,972 she is alleged by the prosecution 172 00:12:08,033 --> 00:12:10,934 to have committed another very serious offence: 173 00:12:11,246 --> 00:12:14,174 throwing a corrosive fluid with intent to harm. 174 00:12:14,174 --> 00:12:16,252 Had it not been for the quick thinking of a friend, 175 00:12:16,257 --> 00:12:18,293 who irrigated her eyes with a drink, 176 00:12:18,554 --> 00:12:20,668 the victim might well have lost her sight. 177 00:12:21,107 --> 00:12:23,249 Now, I feel I have no choice, therefore, 178 00:12:23,369 --> 00:12:27,200 other than to remand her to the Seapark Juvenile Justice Centre in Bangor. 179 00:12:27,214 --> 00:12:29,392 There she will be appointed a case manager 180 00:12:29,414 --> 00:12:31,454 and a key worker who can assess her needs. 181 00:12:31,684 --> 00:12:33,482 She will be able to attend school also, 182 00:12:33,499 --> 00:12:35,486 - if she so wishes. - I don't care what you do, 183 00:12:35,813 --> 00:12:37,633 or what you think, or say. 184 00:12:38,765 --> 00:12:41,112 The only one who's honest is Paul. 185 00:12:41,654 --> 00:12:43,914 He's the only person I choose to listen to, 186 00:12:44,034 --> 00:12:45,729 the only person who sees this world 187 00:12:45,740 --> 00:12:47,077 for what it really is. 188 00:12:48,686 --> 00:12:52,033 Full of sheep like you being fattened for slaughter. 189 00:12:52,299 --> 00:12:54,873 Pigs waiting for the butcher. 190 00:12:55,294 --> 00:12:57,769 You have a lawyer to look after your interests. 191 00:12:57,889 --> 00:12:59,656 Any issues you may have, 192 00:12:59,690 --> 00:13:01,227 you address them through him. 193 00:13:01,614 --> 00:13:02,853 Fuck you. 194 00:13:03,180 --> 00:13:04,534 Fuck you all. 195 00:13:04,984 --> 00:13:06,737 Security, please! 196 00:13:15,574 --> 00:13:18,774 - You requested all the Susan Harper files? - That's right. 197 00:13:18,807 --> 00:13:21,004 This is everything that we have here. 198 00:13:21,276 --> 00:13:22,535 Well, thank you. 199 00:13:37,134 --> 00:13:39,472 OK, so this is what I'm thinking. 200 00:13:39,592 --> 00:13:41,075 We lodge civil proceedings 201 00:13:41,103 --> 00:13:42,957 and make an abuse of process application. 202 00:13:42,974 --> 00:13:44,217 Adverse publicity? 203 00:13:44,244 --> 00:13:46,894 That certainly, but also police misconduct. 204 00:13:46,894 --> 00:13:49,334 Specifically, Detective Superintendent Gibson. 205 00:13:49,571 --> 00:13:52,168 I want you to draw together all the strands of police 206 00:13:52,190 --> 00:13:55,294 and prosecution behaviour that has been questionable. 207 00:13:55,414 --> 00:13:58,394 - Starting with the stage-managed arrest? - Before that. 208 00:13:59,348 --> 00:14:01,895 From the point the investigation assumed his guilt 209 00:14:01,928 --> 00:14:03,787 and focused on him and him alone. 210 00:14:04,725 --> 00:14:06,484 Stage managing the arrest, 211 00:14:06,872 --> 00:14:08,637 the additional sexual oppression, 212 00:14:08,654 --> 00:14:10,273 the failure to bring him to court 213 00:14:10,278 --> 00:14:12,465 promptly once he was charged, all of it 214 00:14:12,903 --> 00:14:15,134 a vendetta from the start against our client. 215 00:14:15,322 --> 00:14:18,174 Do you think that adds up to misconduct of sufficient gravity? 216 00:14:18,213 --> 00:14:20,294 - To warrant a stay? - Maybe not, 217 00:14:20,671 --> 00:14:22,452 but it will certainly cause a delay. 218 00:14:23,035 --> 00:14:26,337 We need more than just issues of competency to work with. 219 00:14:26,694 --> 00:14:29,694 The abuse of process application more than adds up. 220 00:14:31,326 --> 00:14:33,402 You suspect that 221 00:14:34,562 --> 00:14:36,765 Gibson had a previous relationship with Burns. 222 00:14:37,908 --> 00:14:40,854 It seems she has also had liaisons with other colleagues. 223 00:14:41,214 --> 00:14:43,073 Spector was in the hotel room 224 00:14:43,101 --> 00:14:44,643 when Burns was there with Gibson. 225 00:14:45,294 --> 00:14:46,825 Let's assume therefore that Spector 226 00:14:46,841 --> 00:14:48,639 had knowledge of that relationship. 227 00:14:49,505 --> 00:14:51,541 He also had access to her dream diary 228 00:14:51,597 --> 00:14:54,522 which gave him insights into her other liaisons. 229 00:14:54,793 --> 00:14:58,201 What if the damage this could cause Stella Gibson's career 230 00:14:58,223 --> 00:15:01,186 was a possible motive for her failure 231 00:15:01,203 --> 00:15:02,895 to protect him in the forest? 232 00:15:03,223 --> 00:15:05,559 Spector's whereabouts were leaked 233 00:15:05,570 --> 00:15:08,112 by a detention officer within the custody suite. 234 00:15:08,667 --> 00:15:10,537 What if Gibson was in on that leak? 235 00:15:11,142 --> 00:15:14,344 What if Spector's life was deliberately put at risk 236 00:15:14,366 --> 00:15:16,380 by Gibson through police misconduct? 237 00:15:16,430 --> 00:15:18,967 Everyone knew Tyler was out there with a loaded gun 238 00:15:18,967 --> 00:15:22,334 and a clearly stated aim to find and kill Spector. 239 00:15:22,454 --> 00:15:23,944 And she let it happen. 240 00:15:25,170 --> 00:15:26,454 Let's make her pay. 241 00:15:57,614 --> 00:15:59,090 Do you have your own room key? 242 00:16:01,221 --> 00:16:02,198 No. 243 00:16:05,238 --> 00:16:06,387 I do. 244 00:16:08,995 --> 00:16:11,134 I'm allowed to feed the fish in the aquarium. 245 00:16:15,138 --> 00:16:17,330 I used to help with serving the meals but 246 00:16:17,757 --> 00:16:20,400 I gave larger portions to people I liked so, 247 00:16:21,838 --> 00:16:23,534 I'm not allowed to do that any more. 248 00:16:29,007 --> 00:16:30,677 I have art today, so... 249 00:16:36,204 --> 00:16:38,912 Wasn't well, better now. 250 00:16:39,556 --> 00:16:41,387 Wasn't well, better now. 251 00:16:47,369 --> 00:16:49,561 "I don't think there was any criminal intent. 252 00:16:49,561 --> 00:16:50,876 She approached you, 253 00:16:50,893 --> 00:16:52,885 she invited you back to her place. 254 00:16:53,096 --> 00:16:55,371 I'm not saying she was asking for it necessarily, 255 00:16:55,393 --> 00:16:57,729 but we've all been there, too much to drink, 256 00:16:57,906 --> 00:17:00,803 one thing leads to another, things get out of hand. 257 00:17:01,014 --> 00:17:03,367 We're used to dealing with these sorts of offences. 258 00:17:03,374 --> 00:17:05,498 We understand how these things can happen." 259 00:17:05,803 --> 00:17:07,414 What officer is that talking? 260 00:17:07,414 --> 00:17:09,014 Er, this is Rees. 261 00:17:09,134 --> 00:17:11,374 "What did she do to anger you, David? 262 00:17:11,374 --> 00:17:13,928 Did she insult you? What made it turn nasty? 263 00:17:15,934 --> 00:17:18,523 Was she still dressed when you had sex with her?" 264 00:17:19,261 --> 00:17:20,864 "Alvarez: Maybe." 265 00:17:21,214 --> 00:17:22,696 "She wasn't was she? She was naked. 266 00:17:22,707 --> 00:17:24,233 Did she ask you to tie her up? 267 00:17:24,353 --> 00:17:25,360 David? 268 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,962 Was she into bondage? Tell us how you killed her." 269 00:17:28,545 --> 00:17:29,960 "I strangled her." 270 00:17:30,415 --> 00:17:32,019 "How did you strangle her?" 271 00:17:32,402 --> 00:17:33,528 "With my belt." 272 00:17:34,214 --> 00:17:37,523 "You see, David, if you say that, you're not helping me. 273 00:17:37,643 --> 00:17:40,448 - You didn't use your belt, did you?" - "No." 274 00:17:40,653 --> 00:17:42,102 "What did you use? 275 00:17:42,540 --> 00:17:44,866 Come on, David, think about what you used." 276 00:17:45,148 --> 00:17:48,550 "Hathaway: You'd taken your clothes off, David. 277 00:17:48,556 --> 00:17:50,048 You were naked, weren't you?" 278 00:17:51,015 --> 00:17:52,069 "Yes." 279 00:17:52,108 --> 00:17:53,956 "So what did you use to strangle her?" 280 00:17:54,849 --> 00:17:57,069 "Just my hands, just my bare hands." 281 00:17:57,297 --> 00:18:00,465 "There were no strangulation marks on her neck, David. None. 282 00:18:00,585 --> 00:18:02,852 Were there any pillows on the bed, David?" 283 00:18:03,494 --> 00:18:06,031 "I smothered her. I took a pillow 284 00:18:06,031 --> 00:18:08,201 and put it over her face and smothered her." 285 00:18:08,645 --> 00:18:10,210 I mean, Jesus, there's 286 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,834 leading the witness and there's shoving words down his throat. 287 00:18:18,654 --> 00:18:20,842 Why weren't Alvarez's defence all over this? 288 00:18:23,378 --> 00:18:25,897 I'm afraid the typical relationship 289 00:18:25,903 --> 00:18:28,127 between a psychiatrist and patient, 290 00:18:28,188 --> 00:18:31,130 where everything that is said in this room is confidential, 291 00:18:31,135 --> 00:18:32,290 does not apply. 292 00:18:32,639 --> 00:18:35,358 Anything you tell me can be put in the report. 293 00:18:35,796 --> 00:18:38,322 Because it is the Court that has asked me 294 00:18:38,327 --> 00:18:40,414 to conduct the evaluation, 295 00:18:40,647 --> 00:18:43,600 you don't have the right to refuse to participate. 296 00:18:44,254 --> 00:18:46,047 Even if you, for example, 297 00:18:46,064 --> 00:18:47,974 choose not to answer my questions, 298 00:18:48,278 --> 00:18:51,557 I will still need to provide the written report 299 00:18:51,613 --> 00:18:53,294 that will be sent to the court 300 00:18:53,305 --> 00:18:55,663 and made available to your lawyer. 301 00:18:56,179 --> 00:18:59,731 If the judge orders a hearing on the issue of your competency 302 00:18:59,775 --> 00:19:02,117 I might be called to testify in court. 303 00:19:03,734 --> 00:19:05,136 Do you understand? 304 00:19:05,256 --> 00:19:06,406 Yes, I do. 305 00:19:06,634 --> 00:19:08,204 I will answer your questions. 306 00:19:09,294 --> 00:19:10,574 Good. 307 00:19:10,854 --> 00:19:12,094 That's good. 308 00:19:14,364 --> 00:19:15,967 Tom. Have a look at this. 309 00:19:19,814 --> 00:19:22,574 This was a key part of the prosecution's case. 310 00:19:22,694 --> 00:19:25,134 That's the victim, Susan Harper, and that's David Alvarez 311 00:19:25,140 --> 00:19:26,694 leaving the nightclub together. 312 00:19:33,574 --> 00:19:35,094 Who is that, do you think? 313 00:19:37,974 --> 00:19:41,374 Do you understand the police's version of events? 314 00:19:42,314 --> 00:19:44,567 The severity of the charges? 315 00:19:46,493 --> 00:19:47,734 Yes, I do. 316 00:19:49,854 --> 00:19:52,198 Do you remember making a confession? 317 00:19:54,734 --> 00:19:55,814 No. 318 00:19:58,734 --> 00:20:01,148 Can you provide a reasonable account 319 00:20:01,159 --> 00:20:02,990 of your behaviour around the time 320 00:20:03,007 --> 00:20:05,055 of the various alleged offences? 321 00:20:06,876 --> 00:20:07,934 No. 322 00:20:10,239 --> 00:20:11,849 Or your state of mind? 323 00:20:12,237 --> 00:20:13,494 No. 324 00:20:21,174 --> 00:20:23,568 Do you think you could manage your emotions 325 00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:25,614 and behaviour in a courtroom? 326 00:20:28,051 --> 00:20:29,654 I think I could, yes. 327 00:20:29,774 --> 00:20:32,063 Do you think you would be able to keep track 328 00:20:32,086 --> 00:20:34,838 of events as they unfolded? 329 00:20:37,694 --> 00:20:38,854 Yes. 330 00:20:39,934 --> 00:20:42,668 Would you be able to challenge witnesses? 331 00:20:42,896 --> 00:20:44,982 That is, to recognise 332 00:20:44,993 --> 00:20:47,313 distortions in witness testimony? 333 00:20:50,143 --> 00:20:51,934 No, I wouldn't be able to do that. 334 00:20:53,374 --> 00:20:54,666 Not unless my 335 00:20:54,882 --> 00:20:56,253 memory returned. 336 00:20:57,481 --> 00:21:01,174 Do you understand the sentence that could be imposed on you 337 00:21:01,183 --> 00:21:02,942 if you are found guilty? 338 00:21:05,028 --> 00:21:07,254 I would spend the rest of my life in prison. 339 00:21:13,095 --> 00:21:15,437 Will my memory return, Doctor? 340 00:21:17,146 --> 00:21:18,550 Do you want it to? 341 00:21:26,262 --> 00:21:28,374 I might have something significant, ma'am. 342 00:21:28,374 --> 00:21:30,380 A Peter Baldwin working as a waiter 343 00:21:30,380 --> 00:21:33,654 in a Caribbean restaurant called the Plantain Garden. 344 00:21:34,082 --> 00:21:35,894 And the restaurant went bust, 345 00:21:35,924 --> 00:21:37,705 closed in 2008, 346 00:21:37,988 --> 00:21:40,080 but the owner still has his paperwork. 347 00:21:40,707 --> 00:21:43,970 He had reason to give Peter Baldwin a warning, 348 00:21:44,090 --> 00:21:46,622 a reprimand that stayed on file. 349 00:21:47,254 --> 00:21:51,927 It's dated Saturday August the 17th, 2002. 350 00:21:53,292 --> 00:21:54,990 The day before the Harper murder. 351 00:21:56,715 --> 00:21:58,208 Why was he reprimanded? 352 00:21:58,274 --> 00:22:00,583 An argument with a customer that turned nasty, 353 00:22:00,594 --> 00:22:01,754 came to blows. 354 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,854 And the owner positively identified Spector? 355 00:22:05,854 --> 00:22:08,269 I sent him all the photographs we have on file. 356 00:22:08,389 --> 00:22:10,214 He seems pretty certain. 357 00:22:10,271 --> 00:22:12,534 The restaurant was in SW9. 358 00:22:16,437 --> 00:22:19,422 Susan Harper's flat was in SW16. 359 00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:22,419 That's Brixton and Streatham. 360 00:22:23,654 --> 00:22:24,894 Both in Lambeth. 361 00:23:05,113 --> 00:23:07,144 I will, thanks for letting us know. 362 00:23:15,979 --> 00:23:18,534 The police say they have fresh evidence to put to Spector. 363 00:23:18,654 --> 00:23:20,213 What sort of evidence? 364 00:23:20,562 --> 00:23:22,894 Forensic, documentary. 365 00:23:23,098 --> 00:23:25,822 Apparently they have found a lock-up rented by Spector. 366 00:23:25,883 --> 00:23:28,094 They want to interview him about the contents. 367 00:23:28,154 --> 00:23:29,534 Oh, fuck! 368 00:23:29,946 --> 00:23:31,338 I'll need to see proof of that 369 00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:33,319 and all the information that was placed before the judge 370 00:23:33,341 --> 00:23:34,601 to get those warrants. 371 00:23:34,617 --> 00:23:36,510 Get back to the PPS first thing in the morning. 372 00:23:36,534 --> 00:23:38,081 I want full disclosure. 373 00:23:38,447 --> 00:23:40,800 Oh also, contact The Foyle, 374 00:23:41,066 --> 00:23:44,094 see if Larson thinks Spector's fit to be interviewed. 375 00:23:46,339 --> 00:23:47,571 Fuck! 376 00:23:49,934 --> 00:23:51,449 It could be Spector. 377 00:23:51,838 --> 00:23:54,612 Rose Stagg puts Spector in London at the right time. 378 00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:57,220 22 years old, clean-shaven. 379 00:23:58,119 --> 00:23:59,645 It's hard to tell. 380 00:23:59,945 --> 00:24:01,354 No, it's not. 381 00:24:02,048 --> 00:24:03,294 That's him. 382 00:24:04,218 --> 00:24:05,494 I know it's him. 383 00:24:06,754 --> 00:24:09,395 Well, we couldn't quite believe the interrogation tactics... 384 00:24:09,623 --> 00:24:11,709 a classic old school interview... 385 00:24:11,734 --> 00:24:14,334 trickery, deceit, psychological manipulation. 386 00:24:14,334 --> 00:24:16,654 Alvarez thought he'd be able to go home after confessing. 387 00:24:16,654 --> 00:24:18,134 And it seems he fell for it all. 388 00:24:18,254 --> 00:24:20,334 For some reason he seemed eager to please. 389 00:24:20,334 --> 00:24:22,494 I've no idea why the defence team weren't all over it. 390 00:24:22,542 --> 00:24:24,371 All the evidence was pretty strong, 391 00:24:25,028 --> 00:24:27,158 the only other fingerprints found ather flat 392 00:24:27,162 --> 00:24:28,791 were Alvarez's and the only 393 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,228 DNA recovered from her body was his. 394 00:24:31,294 --> 00:24:32,130 True, 395 00:24:33,067 --> 00:24:34,340 but when it comes to the actual murder 396 00:24:34,354 --> 00:24:35,957 they had to lead him by the nose 397 00:24:35,979 --> 00:24:37,675 to get him to where they wanted him to be. 398 00:24:38,226 --> 00:24:40,592 He really seemed to lack detailed knowledge. 399 00:24:41,653 --> 00:24:43,534 I have a good feeling about this. 400 00:24:45,552 --> 00:24:47,614 I can smell Spector's involvement. 401 00:24:50,124 --> 00:24:51,682 And when do you see Alvarez? 402 00:24:51,926 --> 00:24:52,965 In the morning. 403 00:24:54,044 --> 00:24:55,694 Call me with any developments. 404 00:24:57,746 --> 00:24:58,643 Goodnight. 405 00:24:58,705 --> 00:24:59,624 Goodnight. 406 00:25:37,494 --> 00:25:40,540 We can order things off the nurses. 407 00:25:41,373 --> 00:25:43,470 They go shopping twice a week. You just 408 00:25:43,798 --> 00:25:46,173 give them the money and they'll get you the things you want. 409 00:25:48,071 --> 00:25:49,502 I don't have any money. 410 00:25:50,494 --> 00:25:51,534 Oh. 411 00:25:58,414 --> 00:26:00,039 Why are you in this place? 412 00:26:04,223 --> 00:26:06,076 Don't tell me if you don't want to. 413 00:26:07,403 --> 00:26:09,301 I twisted my sister's arm. 414 00:26:12,334 --> 00:26:14,644 I twisted it so far round it broke. 415 00:26:16,054 --> 00:26:17,574 Why did you do that? 416 00:26:19,774 --> 00:26:21,536 I had a haircut. 417 00:26:22,258 --> 00:26:23,307 It... 418 00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:26,164 gave me a new personality. 419 00:26:26,170 --> 00:26:27,629 It made me more feminine. 420 00:26:29,149 --> 00:26:31,330 I thought I was turning homosexual. 421 00:26:31,894 --> 00:26:34,754 When I came home, my sister said I looked gay. 422 00:26:34,771 --> 00:26:36,602 So I twisted her arm. 423 00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:39,026 She was screaming and I didn't stop. 424 00:26:39,854 --> 00:26:41,146 Then it snapped. 425 00:26:42,272 --> 00:26:44,742 Then I suppose I... panicked. 426 00:26:48,454 --> 00:26:49,714 How old was she? 427 00:26:50,494 --> 00:26:51,829 Younger than me. 428 00:26:52,734 --> 00:26:55,094 - How much younger? - Quite a lot younger. 429 00:26:59,754 --> 00:27:01,352 What's your diagnosis? 430 00:27:01,574 --> 00:27:03,971 A psychotic with convulsive disorder. 431 00:27:07,522 --> 00:27:09,220 They say I had 432 00:27:09,464 --> 00:27:11,229 childhood schizophrenia. 433 00:27:12,899 --> 00:27:15,534 I thought there were hidden messages in the colours of cars 434 00:27:15,540 --> 00:27:17,266 passing on the street. 435 00:27:17,774 --> 00:27:21,278 I started communicating with car sounds. 436 00:27:21,899 --> 00:27:24,207 And then the sounds turned into voices. 437 00:27:25,284 --> 00:27:26,799 What kind of voices? 438 00:27:27,071 --> 00:27:27,991 Like... 439 00:27:28,768 --> 00:27:30,039 people, but 440 00:27:30,583 --> 00:27:32,553 just out of hearing. 441 00:27:36,869 --> 00:27:39,374 When I'm bad, I see faces in the mirror. 442 00:27:41,694 --> 00:27:43,345 The risperidone helps. 443 00:27:48,017 --> 00:27:50,014 How long have you been in this place? 444 00:27:50,381 --> 00:27:51,779 Five years. 445 00:27:52,374 --> 00:27:54,260 I was on the news, but 446 00:27:54,737 --> 00:27:56,135 not like you. 447 00:27:56,685 --> 00:27:58,667 It's time to go to your room now, Paul. 448 00:28:20,269 --> 00:28:22,245 12, is the answer to your question. 449 00:28:22,267 --> 00:28:23,494 What? 450 00:28:23,543 --> 00:28:24,991 Mark Bailey's sister. 451 00:28:25,191 --> 00:28:26,445 12 years old. 452 00:28:27,122 --> 00:28:28,759 And he left out the best bit. 453 00:28:30,854 --> 00:28:32,614 After he broke his sister's arm, 454 00:28:32,734 --> 00:28:33,858 he raped her, 455 00:28:34,313 --> 00:28:35,789 then carried her into the street, 456 00:28:36,105 --> 00:28:38,841 threw her into a passing bin lorry that crushed her to death. 457 00:28:41,349 --> 00:28:43,153 The dregs of humanity. 458 00:28:44,334 --> 00:28:45,599 Sweet dreams. 459 00:29:09,576 --> 00:29:10,774 Anderson. 460 00:29:13,177 --> 00:29:15,791 It's Assistant Chief Constable Burns. 461 00:29:16,157 --> 00:29:17,734 Er, good evening, sir. 462 00:29:19,903 --> 00:29:22,478 I understand you're seeing Alvarez tomorrow? 463 00:29:22,656 --> 00:29:23,934 Yes, sir. 464 00:29:32,877 --> 00:29:35,729 I thought I might tell you something about Gortnacull 465 00:29:36,094 --> 00:29:37,527 that might be useful. 466 00:29:38,536 --> 00:29:39,924 Thank you, sir. 467 00:29:43,093 --> 00:29:44,525 I remember... 468 00:29:46,023 --> 00:29:48,747 ... when I arrived there, being struck by how 469 00:29:48,958 --> 00:29:50,639 grand-looking it was. 470 00:29:53,203 --> 00:29:56,061 Lovely gardens, outside pool, 471 00:29:56,649 --> 00:29:58,997 views over Belfast Lough. 472 00:30:00,007 --> 00:30:01,505 Apparently 473 00:30:01,866 --> 00:30:03,260 so much more than the boys 474 00:30:03,271 --> 00:30:05,252 would have been used to at home in Belfast. 475 00:30:08,454 --> 00:30:10,307 Just off the entrance hall 476 00:30:11,023 --> 00:30:12,826 there was a large dining room. 477 00:30:15,696 --> 00:30:17,865 All the boys we interviewed 478 00:30:18,574 --> 00:30:22,043 told of how they were taken there every day... 479 00:30:23,974 --> 00:30:25,694 ... and made to masturbate 480 00:30:26,249 --> 00:30:28,374 to entertain the staff members. 481 00:30:29,895 --> 00:30:31,938 Masturbate themselves, 482 00:30:33,086 --> 00:30:35,377 masturbate members of staff. 483 00:30:39,417 --> 00:30:41,959 We did fluorescence tests on the carpet. 484 00:30:45,366 --> 00:30:47,236 It was covered in stains. 485 00:30:51,303 --> 00:30:53,296 David Alvarez was there 486 00:30:54,006 --> 00:30:56,265 at the same time as Paul Spector... 487 00:30:57,169 --> 00:30:58,774 as Peter Baldwin. 488 00:31:01,334 --> 00:31:03,084 He would know about that. 489 00:31:07,029 --> 00:31:09,014 He would remember that dining room. 490 00:31:18,260 --> 00:31:20,213 That... that was all. 491 00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:23,934 Just... 492 00:31:28,319 --> 00:31:29,723 That was all. 493 00:32:23,734 --> 00:32:26,034 I just took a call from the DPP, ma'am. 494 00:32:26,367 --> 00:32:28,894 It seems that Sean Healy has lodged a complaint 495 00:32:28,906 --> 00:32:30,534 against you with the Police Ombudsman. 496 00:32:31,578 --> 00:32:32,574 I see. 497 00:32:32,574 --> 00:32:35,076 Also an abuse of process application. 498 00:32:38,152 --> 00:32:39,910 You'd better give me the details. 499 00:32:50,854 --> 00:32:53,334 This is my client, David Alvarez. 500 00:32:53,574 --> 00:32:56,377 David, this is Detective Sergeant Tom Anderson 501 00:32:56,554 --> 00:32:58,602 and PC Dani Ferrington. 502 00:32:59,468 --> 00:33:01,471 Thanks very much for talking to us, David. 503 00:33:02,936 --> 00:33:04,334 I haven't yet. 504 00:33:07,452 --> 00:33:09,139 You understand that it's in connection 505 00:33:09,155 --> 00:33:10,571 with your conviction for murder? 506 00:33:12,214 --> 00:33:13,914 Frazer's explained, yes. 507 00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:14,944 Good. 508 00:33:15,578 --> 00:33:17,901 I wonder, do you recognise this man? 509 00:33:18,101 --> 00:33:19,774 For the purposes of the tape, 510 00:33:19,894 --> 00:33:23,124 I'm showing David a picture of a male individual. 511 00:33:26,343 --> 00:33:27,551 I do, yes. 512 00:33:28,043 --> 00:33:29,633 What name do you know him by? 513 00:33:32,043 --> 00:33:33,174 Peter Baldwin. 514 00:33:33,294 --> 00:33:34,741 How do you know Peter Baldwin? 515 00:33:37,648 --> 00:33:39,723 We were in Gortnacull House together. 516 00:33:39,984 --> 00:33:41,374 When was that? 517 00:33:42,734 --> 00:33:47,198 Ah, I was there from 1990 to 1994. 518 00:33:47,231 --> 00:33:49,411 - I'm a year younger than him. - Right. 519 00:33:49,589 --> 00:33:52,694 And when was the last time that you saw Peter Baldwin? 520 00:33:55,926 --> 00:33:57,494 In 2002. 521 00:33:57,562 --> 00:33:59,527 - Where was that? - In London. 522 00:34:00,437 --> 00:34:02,451 And what were the circumstances of that meeting? 523 00:34:02,473 --> 00:34:03,733 Was he there at your invitation? 524 00:34:03,744 --> 00:34:06,363 No, we met by chance. The last time I'd seen him was 525 00:34:06,884 --> 00:34:08,826 at Gortnacull when I was 12. 526 00:34:09,414 --> 00:34:11,701 At Gortnacull with Father Jensen. 527 00:34:13,694 --> 00:34:17,095 Perhaps we can talk about the period in your life 528 00:34:17,117 --> 00:34:19,431 before you were first incarcerated. 529 00:34:19,654 --> 00:34:22,694 When you compiled your own map of Dundalk. 530 00:34:26,045 --> 00:34:27,588 What do you want to know? 531 00:34:28,742 --> 00:34:31,206 When did that behaviour begin for you? 532 00:34:32,460 --> 00:34:33,854 What behaviour? 533 00:34:33,903 --> 00:34:35,274 The voyeurism. 534 00:34:37,865 --> 00:34:39,274 Around that age. 535 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:40,834 13 or so. 536 00:34:41,705 --> 00:34:44,024 What were you seeking, do you think, 537 00:34:44,036 --> 00:34:45,889 in behaving in that way? 538 00:34:47,334 --> 00:34:48,574 Relief. 539 00:34:50,899 --> 00:34:52,231 From? 540 00:34:52,574 --> 00:34:53,574 Boredom. 541 00:34:54,968 --> 00:34:56,174 Loneliness. 542 00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:59,768 It was exciting that they were... 543 00:35:00,611 --> 00:35:02,454 unsuspecting, unaware. 544 00:35:03,834 --> 00:35:07,020 Because of the possibility of seeing someone naked, 545 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:08,968 or disrobing, 546 00:35:09,294 --> 00:35:11,734 or engaging in sexual activity? 547 00:35:12,319 --> 00:35:14,655 No, not just that. 548 00:35:16,442 --> 00:35:17,694 Then what? 549 00:35:20,089 --> 00:35:21,654 Seeing into homes. 550 00:35:23,774 --> 00:35:25,234 Real homes. 551 00:35:26,227 --> 00:35:28,780 Comfortable, warm. 552 00:35:30,484 --> 00:35:31,888 A glimpse into 553 00:35:32,437 --> 00:35:34,174 lives being led. 554 00:35:35,145 --> 00:35:36,734 Full lives. 555 00:35:39,341 --> 00:35:41,693 I'd imagine myself in those homes, 556 00:35:42,298 --> 00:35:45,033 as part of those lives, at the dinner table... 557 00:35:45,894 --> 00:35:48,507 watching television with the fire on. 558 00:35:49,667 --> 00:35:51,376 How did it make you feel, 559 00:35:51,592 --> 00:35:53,739 being on the outside looking in? 560 00:35:55,814 --> 00:35:57,174 Lonely. 561 00:35:58,739 --> 00:35:59,894 Angry? 562 00:36:02,201 --> 00:36:03,334 Yes. 563 00:36:05,026 --> 00:36:06,414 Aroused? 564 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,614 When did you start breaking in? 565 00:36:23,332 --> 00:36:25,134 When I'd built up the courage. 566 00:36:26,822 --> 00:36:28,353 How did you do that? 567 00:36:29,562 --> 00:36:31,014 I'd get closer to them. 568 00:36:32,581 --> 00:36:33,894 How? 569 00:36:36,049 --> 00:36:37,494 I'd telephone them. 570 00:36:38,896 --> 00:36:40,949 Deliver their newspapers. 571 00:36:41,454 --> 00:36:43,519 Ride with them on the bus. 572 00:36:44,052 --> 00:36:45,523 Once, I even 573 00:36:45,972 --> 00:36:47,837 carried a woman's shopping home for her. 574 00:36:49,967 --> 00:36:53,134 Were the break-ins spontaneous, or did you plan? 575 00:36:54,254 --> 00:36:55,983 I made extensive, 576 00:36:56,294 --> 00:36:57,881 elaborate plans. 577 00:37:01,455 --> 00:37:03,258 I discovered that it was easy. 578 00:37:04,618 --> 00:37:06,938 For the most part, people feel safe. 579 00:37:07,781 --> 00:37:09,912 They forget to turn the alarm on, 580 00:37:10,367 --> 00:37:12,898 leave windows open, patio doors. 581 00:37:14,507 --> 00:37:16,638 I didn't want anyone to feel safe. 582 00:37:18,254 --> 00:37:20,078 Why should they have that luxury? 583 00:37:21,334 --> 00:37:22,758 We just hung out. 584 00:37:22,963 --> 00:37:24,739 We drank, we took drugs. 585 00:37:24,859 --> 00:37:27,225 - What sort of drugs? - Coke, mainly. 586 00:37:28,230 --> 00:37:29,574 Where was this? 587 00:37:31,214 --> 00:37:32,785 In Brixton. 588 00:37:33,614 --> 00:37:36,692 We shared a flat in Brixton, 589 00:37:36,812 --> 00:37:38,530 in Coldharbour Lane. 590 00:37:43,041 --> 00:37:45,028 Were you with Paul Spector... 591 00:37:45,804 --> 00:37:47,064 Peter Baldwin... 592 00:37:47,646 --> 00:37:50,499 on the night that Susan Harper died, David? 593 00:37:54,715 --> 00:37:56,094 We think you were. 594 00:37:58,454 --> 00:38:00,342 I'm producing a laptop 595 00:38:00,347 --> 00:38:04,598 showing CCTV footage of Exhibit NS1. 596 00:38:08,454 --> 00:38:11,806 Taken from Edenvale Road, London, SW9, 597 00:38:11,822 --> 00:38:16,206 on Sunday the 18th of August 2002 at 1:45am. 598 00:38:17,574 --> 00:38:19,215 We think that's Paul Spector, 599 00:38:19,215 --> 00:38:22,133 leaving the club with you and Susan on the night that she died. 600 00:38:26,654 --> 00:38:28,936 So your interest in voyeurism 601 00:38:28,936 --> 00:38:30,640 gave way to a desire to 602 00:38:31,054 --> 00:38:33,354 break into the observed space? 603 00:38:33,798 --> 00:38:37,882 To violate those individuals in a more intimate way? 604 00:38:39,854 --> 00:38:41,456 You're thinking that 605 00:38:42,116 --> 00:38:43,786 the voyeurism was a... 606 00:38:45,174 --> 00:38:47,216 ... precursor to more 607 00:38:47,776 --> 00:38:49,702 aggressive sexual deviancies? 608 00:38:49,822 --> 00:38:54,408 No, I'm just trying to understand the progression of your 609 00:38:54,836 --> 00:38:56,173 criminality. 610 00:39:01,811 --> 00:39:04,169 I thought I'd put it all behind me. 611 00:39:04,641 --> 00:39:07,642 When I married Sally Ann. When Olivia was born. 612 00:39:08,586 --> 00:39:11,593 I thought that was all in the past, 613 00:39:12,270 --> 00:39:14,029 troubles of my youth. 614 00:39:15,072 --> 00:39:16,759 But now I'm being told that 615 00:39:17,702 --> 00:39:19,094 it was the opposite. 616 00:39:20,554 --> 00:39:23,374 Like an addict, I'd gone from bad to worse. 617 00:39:26,752 --> 00:39:30,526 In my view, those distortions originate 618 00:39:30,598 --> 00:39:33,254 from a variety of places in childhood. 619 00:39:34,477 --> 00:39:36,596 Childhood victimization. 620 00:39:37,561 --> 00:39:40,153 Faulty family relationships. 621 00:39:41,452 --> 00:39:44,271 General psychological distress. 622 00:39:46,036 --> 00:39:48,054 They are not so easily dealt with. 623 00:39:49,542 --> 00:39:51,014 Not without help. 624 00:39:52,456 --> 00:39:55,413 They are not so easily cast aside. 625 00:40:00,501 --> 00:40:03,287 Did you confess because you felt guilty about the offence? 626 00:40:05,271 --> 00:40:06,294 Maybe. 627 00:40:08,214 --> 00:40:09,294 Maybe, yes. 628 00:40:10,376 --> 00:40:11,974 Or to protect someone? 629 00:40:16,721 --> 00:40:19,265 You see, David, when I look at this interview... 630 00:40:19,274 --> 00:40:22,908 like... I can see you've... 631 00:40:24,134 --> 00:40:27,454 ... you've no idea how the murder took place. 632 00:40:27,454 --> 00:40:29,242 You don't even know if there was a murder. 633 00:40:30,107 --> 00:40:33,223 I can see that you were led and prompted by the detectives 634 00:40:33,236 --> 00:40:35,362 in a shameful and unprofessional manner. 635 00:40:36,826 --> 00:40:38,713 It's time to tell the truth, David. 636 00:40:43,116 --> 00:40:45,157 I have here the transcript of that interview, 637 00:40:45,174 --> 00:40:47,294 dated the 22nd of August 2002. 638 00:40:47,545 --> 00:40:50,974 Reese: "Why was there a washing-up bowl by the bed, David?" 639 00:40:51,261 --> 00:40:52,259 "What?" 640 00:40:52,304 --> 00:40:53,853 "A plastic washing-up bowl." 641 00:40:54,350 --> 00:40:55,371 "I don't know." 642 00:40:55,406 --> 00:40:56,809 "What colour was that bowl?" 643 00:40:57,005 --> 00:40:57,934 "Blue?" 644 00:40:58,283 --> 00:41:00,814 "Were you cleaning up the scene, washing your hands, what?" 645 00:41:00,814 --> 00:41:01,981 "I was stoned." 646 00:41:02,054 --> 00:41:03,717 "Oh, so now you were stoned?" 647 00:41:04,077 --> 00:41:05,227 "I'd been drinking." 648 00:41:05,773 --> 00:41:07,566 "So what colour was the bowl?" 649 00:41:08,365 --> 00:41:09,493 "Grey? 650 00:41:09,999 --> 00:41:11,096 Green? 651 00:41:11,424 --> 00:41:12,454 Brown?" 652 00:41:12,779 --> 00:41:14,412 "Green, David, yes." 653 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,228 I think I know why that bowl was there. 654 00:41:30,002 --> 00:41:32,124 And it relates to the modus operandi of 655 00:41:32,133 --> 00:41:33,798 Paul Spector, Peter Baldwin. 656 00:41:38,414 --> 00:41:40,603 Are you sure he killed all those girls? 657 00:41:41,816 --> 00:41:43,094 Yes, we are. 658 00:41:44,972 --> 00:41:46,814 Why are you protecting him, David? 659 00:41:51,374 --> 00:41:54,273 No-one has any idea how bad Gortnacull House was. 660 00:41:57,630 --> 00:41:59,174 Only those that were there. 661 00:42:02,123 --> 00:42:05,318 - I have some idea. - No, you fucking don't. 662 00:42:05,701 --> 00:42:06,974 Then tell me. 663 00:42:08,814 --> 00:42:09,976 Tell me, David. 664 00:42:09,981 --> 00:42:12,068 Tell me about the dining room. 665 00:42:13,942 --> 00:42:15,607 Was there morning assemblies? 666 00:42:21,027 --> 00:42:22,518 How do you know about that? 667 00:42:23,739 --> 00:42:25,355 One of my colleagues 668 00:42:25,378 --> 00:42:27,250 was the arresting officer who put Jensen 669 00:42:27,250 --> 00:42:28,698 and several others in prison. 670 00:42:32,347 --> 00:42:34,472 And they did forensic tests there, 671 00:42:35,005 --> 00:42:37,464 and they found the carpet in that room 672 00:42:37,801 --> 00:42:40,123 covered in semen stains. 673 00:42:45,770 --> 00:42:46,654 David? 674 00:42:49,610 --> 00:42:51,319 Is that something that happened to you? 675 00:42:53,205 --> 00:42:55,984 Did you have to masturbate in front of other boys, staff? 676 00:42:59,811 --> 00:43:00,739 Everyone did. 677 00:43:01,089 --> 00:43:03,509 - Peter Baldwin? - I said, "Everyone did." 678 00:43:08,504 --> 00:43:10,454 Me, Pretty Boy... 679 00:43:13,485 --> 00:43:15,540 ... everyone did, at one time or another. 680 00:43:16,934 --> 00:43:18,084 Pretty Boy? 681 00:43:18,692 --> 00:43:19,820 Jensen's name. 682 00:43:19,877 --> 00:43:20,956 For Spector? 683 00:43:23,056 --> 00:43:25,395 For Baldwin, Spector, whatever. 684 00:43:30,048 --> 00:43:31,694 Jensen always had a favourite. 685 00:43:33,591 --> 00:43:35,682 A boy of about 12 or 13 years of age 686 00:43:35,695 --> 00:43:38,176 that he would single out for his special attentions. 687 00:43:39,442 --> 00:43:41,333 And the tradition was that when he was leaving, 688 00:43:41,334 --> 00:43:43,780 a special boy had to nominate his successor. 689 00:43:47,922 --> 00:43:50,848 So Jensen and Baldwin came to our dormitory one night. 690 00:43:54,182 --> 00:43:57,262 Peter was due to leave, and Jensen made Peter choose. 691 00:44:04,206 --> 00:44:05,934 He could have chose me. 692 00:44:08,876 --> 00:44:10,469 He looked straight at me. 693 00:44:10,589 --> 00:44:11,655 Straight at me. 694 00:44:12,654 --> 00:44:14,283 Jensen looked straight at me. 695 00:44:15,632 --> 00:44:17,408 And I knew Jensen wanted me. 696 00:44:17,896 --> 00:44:19,028 I felt it. 697 00:44:23,264 --> 00:44:26,065 But Peter walked straight past me and chose another boy. 698 00:44:27,371 --> 00:44:29,333 I don't know who, some poor fuck. 699 00:44:29,453 --> 00:44:31,340 I didn't look, I didn't even care. 700 00:44:32,454 --> 00:44:34,265 Just as long as it wasn't me. 701 00:44:35,109 --> 00:44:36,858 Just as long as it wasn't me. 702 00:44:41,826 --> 00:44:44,423 Being Jensen's favourite was the worst thing... 703 00:44:46,021 --> 00:44:47,805 the worst thing you can imagine. 704 00:44:51,671 --> 00:44:52,817 David... 705 00:44:56,466 --> 00:44:59,329 ... are you certain that Baldwin, Paul Spector, 706 00:44:59,765 --> 00:45:01,254 was Jensen's favourite? 707 00:45:04,795 --> 00:45:06,054 For a full year. 708 00:45:09,647 --> 00:45:11,894 Every night and every day for a full year. 709 00:45:20,941 --> 00:45:23,551 Do you know why your mother took her own life? 710 00:45:27,014 --> 00:45:28,306 Hmm... 711 00:45:28,654 --> 00:45:30,938 Because my love wasn't enough for her, 712 00:45:31,835 --> 00:45:33,011 enough to... 713 00:45:34,436 --> 00:45:35,808 keep her alive. 714 00:45:39,373 --> 00:45:41,833 Whenever I was ill, as a child... 715 00:45:44,252 --> 00:45:46,835 ... she'd take me into her bed and care for me. 716 00:45:48,215 --> 00:45:50,174 And Baldwin would sleep in mine. 717 00:45:51,908 --> 00:45:53,741 And when he left, she was... 718 00:45:55,268 --> 00:45:58,394 ... so sad that I slept in there with her, every night. 719 00:46:01,648 --> 00:46:03,153 Just me and her 720 00:46:03,482 --> 00:46:04,605 in the world. 721 00:46:06,936 --> 00:46:08,298 The car lights would 722 00:46:08,569 --> 00:46:10,198 sweep across the ceiling... 723 00:46:12,014 --> 00:46:13,494 ... and I'd imagine that... 724 00:46:15,276 --> 00:46:18,263 ... we were on a raft together drifting in the water. 725 00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:22,778 Just me and her 726 00:46:23,293 --> 00:46:25,069 in the world but we had each other. 727 00:46:28,704 --> 00:46:30,237 I still remember her smell, 728 00:46:31,084 --> 00:46:32,585 the smell of her clothes. 729 00:46:38,131 --> 00:46:40,101 On my eighth birthday... 730 00:46:41,903 --> 00:46:43,214 ... after he'd left... 731 00:46:45,014 --> 00:46:46,120 she told me that... 732 00:46:47,176 --> 00:46:48,521 he wasn't my father. 733 00:46:50,714 --> 00:46:52,494 That my real father... 734 00:46:54,514 --> 00:46:55,854 ... unreal father... 735 00:46:57,639 --> 00:46:59,312 ... was a British soldier who 736 00:46:59,601 --> 00:47:01,887 - was gone before I was born. - Hm. 737 00:47:04,818 --> 00:47:05,990 That was her... 738 00:47:07,175 --> 00:47:08,662 birthday gift to me. 739 00:47:11,548 --> 00:47:13,320 Ten days later, she was dead. 740 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,134 Were you the one to find her? 741 00:47:25,328 --> 00:47:26,734 It was a school day. 742 00:47:30,070 --> 00:47:32,063 She wasn't there at the gate to pick me up, 743 00:47:32,471 --> 00:47:33,892 so I walked home. 744 00:47:34,974 --> 00:47:36,471 Rang the doorbell, 745 00:47:37,768 --> 00:47:39,033 there was no answer. 746 00:47:40,999 --> 00:47:42,908 But there was a key under the mat, so... 747 00:47:44,533 --> 00:47:45,843 ... so I let myself in. 748 00:47:49,274 --> 00:47:51,845 I shouted out, there was no reply. 749 00:47:52,298 --> 00:47:53,740 The radio was on. 750 00:47:56,852 --> 00:47:58,054 I looked around. 751 00:47:59,893 --> 00:48:01,278 I went upstairs... 752 00:48:03,475 --> 00:48:05,322 ... pushed against her bedroom. 753 00:48:06,156 --> 00:48:07,017 There was a... 754 00:48:07,412 --> 00:48:09,414 thump against the door. 755 00:48:11,879 --> 00:48:14,014 So I pushed more until I got in. 756 00:48:16,421 --> 00:48:17,398 And... 757 00:48:17,984 --> 00:48:19,640 she was on the back of the door... 758 00:48:22,956 --> 00:48:24,660 ... belts around her neck. 759 00:48:28,357 --> 00:48:30,782 I shouted at her, but there was no response. 760 00:48:34,516 --> 00:48:36,393 I didn't know if she was dead or alive. 761 00:48:37,578 --> 00:48:39,211 I called 999. 762 00:48:39,846 --> 00:48:41,200 The ambulance men came. 763 00:48:43,273 --> 00:48:44,343 They, erm... 764 00:48:45,533 --> 00:48:47,263 ... they told me to wait in my room. 765 00:48:49,767 --> 00:48:51,294 I looked out the window and... 766 00:48:52,671 --> 00:48:55,379 ... I remember this red blanket that they used 767 00:48:55,419 --> 00:48:56,999 cover her when they wheeled her out. 768 00:48:59,530 --> 00:49:01,039 All that day, people 769 00:49:01,963 --> 00:49:03,317 came and went and 770 00:49:04,484 --> 00:49:06,425 nobody told me what had happened. 771 00:49:08,254 --> 00:49:09,749 Then later someone said that 772 00:49:10,748 --> 00:49:12,670 she'd "gone to a better place." 773 00:49:16,323 --> 00:49:18,374 I suppose I knew she was dead but... 774 00:49:19,404 --> 00:49:21,921 there was a part of me that thought maybe she was alive... 775 00:49:23,831 --> 00:49:25,254 ... living elsewhere... 776 00:49:26,494 --> 00:49:29,492 ... in a better place because I wasn't there. 777 00:49:32,155 --> 00:49:34,801 The last memory I have of her, she was very 778 00:49:35,271 --> 00:49:37,402 angry with me, angry for 779 00:49:38,139 --> 00:49:39,489 something I'd done. 780 00:49:39,879 --> 00:49:40,873 I don't know what. 781 00:49:45,331 --> 00:49:48,945 You know you worked on a suicide helpline for some years? 782 00:49:51,448 --> 00:49:52,494 No. 783 00:49:54,374 --> 00:49:55,599 You did. 784 00:49:57,256 --> 00:50:00,094 And, of course, as a bereavement counsellor. 785 00:50:01,805 --> 00:50:04,974 Why were you drawn to that line of work, do you think? 786 00:50:10,297 --> 00:50:12,481 Something morbid in me, I suppose. 787 00:50:16,432 --> 00:50:18,054 After my mother died... 788 00:50:20,485 --> 00:50:22,016 ... I had this... 789 00:50:22,545 --> 00:50:23,863 recurring dream. 790 00:50:24,693 --> 00:50:26,296 I was lying in a coffin... 791 00:50:28,445 --> 00:50:30,094 ... and I was cut up into... 792 00:50:32,928 --> 00:50:34,486 ... small chunks. 793 00:50:37,572 --> 00:50:40,174 But there was a nerve that ran through every piece 794 00:50:41,022 --> 00:50:42,794 that was connected to my brain. 795 00:50:44,214 --> 00:50:45,244 Hm. 796 00:50:46,642 --> 00:50:48,654 That sounds very frightening. 797 00:50:51,304 --> 00:50:54,294 Why would he take the blame, David Alvarez? 798 00:50:54,531 --> 00:50:56,374 Why would he do that for Spector? 799 00:50:56,646 --> 00:50:58,694 Beyond the debt of gratitude? 800 00:51:00,006 --> 00:51:01,556 It's clear he felt guilty. 801 00:51:01,676 --> 00:51:03,154 He was part of it, after all. 802 00:51:03,678 --> 00:51:05,702 He wrote long rambling letters of apology 803 00:51:05,706 --> 00:51:07,553 to Susan Harper's parents from prison. 804 00:51:07,673 --> 00:51:10,061 In his interviews he seems very vulnerable... 805 00:51:10,346 --> 00:51:11,695 and suggestible. 806 00:51:11,749 --> 00:51:13,782 I guess he's toughened up in prison, but 807 00:51:13,902 --> 00:51:17,725 I wonder if he didn't get off on it 808 00:51:17,725 --> 00:51:19,115 in some way at the time. 809 00:51:19,149 --> 00:51:20,813 He seemed very flattered by the detectives 810 00:51:20,831 --> 00:51:22,309 "boys will be boys" bullshit. 811 00:51:22,576 --> 00:51:24,495 And, suddenly, he was the centre of attention, 812 00:51:24,615 --> 00:51:26,532 a kind of celebrity. 813 00:51:26,814 --> 00:51:27,652 Oh. 814 00:51:28,056 --> 00:51:29,667 Have you spoken to Chris George? 815 00:51:30,409 --> 00:51:32,474 Is he going to want a Met officer to sit in 816 00:51:32,487 --> 00:51:34,854 on any further interviews regarding the Harper murder? 817 00:51:34,937 --> 00:51:36,660 He's happy for you to represent the Met, 818 00:51:36,860 --> 00:51:38,427 and he said he'll back us 819 00:51:38,449 --> 00:51:40,447 if we reopen the Alvarez investigation. 820 00:51:41,108 --> 00:51:42,569 That's great news. 821 00:51:43,435 --> 00:51:45,761 We're seeing Spector tomorrow to put the new evidence 822 00:51:45,770 --> 00:51:46,999 from the lock-up to him. 823 00:51:47,119 --> 00:51:48,215 When are you back? 824 00:51:48,254 --> 00:51:49,228 First thing. 825 00:51:49,348 --> 00:51:51,164 I'll go straight to the Serious Crime Suite. 826 00:51:51,208 --> 00:51:52,384 Good work, Tom. 827 00:51:52,894 --> 00:51:53,884 Let's hope so. 828 00:53:10,793 --> 00:53:12,604 Detective Superintendent Gibson. 829 00:54:01,379 --> 00:54:04,734 This interview is being recorded at the Down Serious Crime Suite. 830 00:54:04,808 --> 00:54:07,348 The date is the 16th of May 2012 831 00:54:07,357 --> 00:54:10,494 and the time, by my watch, is 1400. 832 00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:12,303 I'm Detective Sergeant Anderson, 833 00:54:12,356 --> 00:54:15,735 and the other police officer present is Detective Superintendent Gibson. 834 00:54:15,855 --> 00:54:18,014 Can you please state your full name and date of birth? 835 00:54:18,221 --> 00:54:19,615 Peter Paul Spector, 836 00:54:19,841 --> 00:54:21,892 25th of May 1979. 837 00:54:22,704 --> 00:54:25,692 - And also present is? - Sean Healy, solicitor. 838 00:54:26,575 --> 00:54:28,742 And at the conclusion of the interview I'll give 839 00:54:28,933 --> 00:54:31,203 a notice of how you can obtain a copy of the tapes. 840 00:54:31,924 --> 00:54:33,216 You do not have to say anything, 841 00:54:33,245 --> 00:54:35,638 but I must caution you if you do not mention when questioned 842 00:54:35,652 --> 00:54:37,126 something you later rely on in court, 843 00:54:37,133 --> 00:54:38,337 it may harm your defence. 844 00:54:38,749 --> 00:54:41,162 If you do say anything, it may be given in evidence. 845 00:54:41,517 --> 00:54:42,966 Do you understand the caution? 846 00:54:43,339 --> 00:54:44,419 Yes. 847 00:54:45,538 --> 00:54:47,465 We have reason to believe that you rented 848 00:54:47,472 --> 00:54:49,368 a lock-up as a storage unit 849 00:54:49,577 --> 00:54:52,014 in the name of Peter Baldwin. 850 00:54:52,387 --> 00:54:54,429 I'm showing a lease agreement 851 00:54:54,811 --> 00:54:55,903 for that lock-up. 852 00:55:01,835 --> 00:55:03,526 Is that your signature on the document? 853 00:55:08,947 --> 00:55:10,195 For the benefit of the tape, 854 00:55:10,217 --> 00:55:12,454 Paul Spector has declined to answer the question. 855 00:55:12,766 --> 00:55:13,853 So, in that lock-up, 856 00:55:14,266 --> 00:55:15,917 along with a car we believe you stole, 857 00:55:15,939 --> 00:55:17,137 we found a number of items 858 00:55:17,257 --> 00:55:18,700 that we'd like you to account for. 859 00:55:18,731 --> 00:55:20,742 Now, we believe that these... 860 00:55:21,079 --> 00:55:24,675 documents, these diaries or journals, are your work. 861 00:55:24,694 --> 00:55:27,377 I'm showing exhibit ME369, 862 00:55:27,604 --> 00:55:30,161 which is a journal, and also 863 00:55:30,826 --> 00:55:33,330 a copy of the contents of the journal. 864 00:55:34,494 --> 00:55:35,546 Now... 865 00:55:36,216 --> 00:55:39,111 are you able to identify the subject of this journal, 866 00:55:39,133 --> 00:55:42,222 a woman with the initials RW? 867 00:55:47,814 --> 00:55:49,795 - No. - This is pointless. 868 00:55:50,274 --> 00:55:52,512 My client is undergoing assessment 869 00:55:52,525 --> 00:55:54,554 because he is suffering retrograde amnesia 870 00:55:54,562 --> 00:55:56,934 which covers all autobiographical memory 871 00:55:57,014 --> 00:55:59,291 for a period of six years or so. 872 00:56:00,454 --> 00:56:02,694 Then perhaps you recognise this man? 873 00:56:02,905 --> 00:56:05,640 I'm showing a photograph of a male person. 874 00:56:05,813 --> 00:56:07,020 What's this? 875 00:56:07,273 --> 00:56:10,145 We believe he was with you in Gortnacull Children's Home 876 00:56:10,163 --> 00:56:13,541 and that you met him again in 2002, 877 00:56:13,883 --> 00:56:14,877 in London, 878 00:56:15,618 --> 00:56:18,205 which is a period that falls outside the timeframe 879 00:56:18,214 --> 00:56:19,843 of your purported amnesia. 880 00:56:19,905 --> 00:56:22,214 What has this got to do with the contents of the lock-up? 881 00:56:22,281 --> 00:56:24,264 Before my client answers... 882 00:56:25,254 --> 00:56:27,607 ... could you please explain the relevance of this photograph? 883 00:56:28,118 --> 00:56:31,567 This man is, at present, serving a life sentence for a murder, 884 00:56:31,576 --> 00:56:33,365 a murder he committed in 2002. 885 00:56:33,387 --> 00:56:34,373 Even then, I'm sorry, 886 00:56:34,382 --> 00:56:36,389 but it falls outside the scope of this interview. 887 00:56:36,428 --> 00:56:37,565 The murder of this woman. 888 00:56:37,574 --> 00:56:39,830 I'm showing a photograph of the female victim. 889 00:56:43,765 --> 00:56:48,657 DCI Eastwood has just entered the room at 14:03. 890 00:56:50,214 --> 00:56:51,364 Paul Spector, 891 00:56:52,332 --> 00:56:54,529 I am further arresting you 892 00:56:54,578 --> 00:56:56,504 for the murder of Susan Harper 893 00:56:56,734 --> 00:56:59,101 at Flat 16 Thornton Rise, 894 00:56:59,114 --> 00:57:04,042 SW16 3CV, on the 18th of the eighth, 2002. 895 00:57:04,725 --> 00:57:06,803 I must remind you that you are still under caution. 896 00:57:06,834 --> 00:57:08,903 I insist this interview be suspended. 897 00:57:08,917 --> 00:57:10,427 I must take instruction from Mr Spector. 898 00:57:10,462 --> 00:57:12,214 Do you recognise this man? Do you know his name? 899 00:57:12,214 --> 00:57:14,976 - David Alvarez. - This interview stops now. 900 00:57:16,868 --> 00:57:19,088 Interview has been suspended at 14:04 901 00:57:19,105 --> 00:57:21,760 so that Paul Spector can consult with his solicitor. 902 00:57:36,574 --> 00:57:38,772 Who the fuck is David Alvarez? 903 00:57:40,051 --> 00:57:41,760 Just as they've said, 904 00:57:42,532 --> 00:57:44,090 someone I knew when I was a child 905 00:57:44,108 --> 00:57:46,283 and then again in London in 2002. 906 00:57:46,403 --> 00:57:47,859 A convicted murderer? 907 00:57:48,228 --> 00:57:49,702 Yes. 908 00:57:49,737 --> 00:57:51,043 What is going on? 909 00:57:56,321 --> 00:57:57,894 The police have been clever. 910 00:58:00,525 --> 00:58:01,550 They have something on me 911 00:58:01,563 --> 00:58:03,183 that I can actually remember.