1 00:00:17,769 --> 00:00:20,608 With Ervil's death in 1981... 2 00:00:22,613 --> 00:00:25,952 I think everyone assumes this story is going to end. 3 00:00:28,991 --> 00:00:32,431 The guy who ordered the blood atonements is gone, 4 00:00:32,498 --> 00:00:35,938 so now the story's over. 5 00:00:36,005 --> 00:00:38,409 But they were wrong. 6 00:00:38,476 --> 00:00:39,980 After Ervil's death, 7 00:00:40,047 --> 00:00:41,817 there were multiple people 8 00:00:41,884 --> 00:00:44,690 who claimed that they were the next one in charge. 9 00:00:44,756 --> 00:00:48,496 - The church splinters, and it splinters into three groups. 10 00:00:48,564 --> 00:00:51,102 One group headed by Daniel Jordan, 11 00:00:51,169 --> 00:00:53,875 one group headed by Mark Chynoweth, 12 00:00:53,942 --> 00:00:55,277 and then the third group 13 00:00:55,344 --> 00:00:58,416 headed by Ervil's oldest son, Arturo LeBaron. 14 00:00:58,483 --> 00:01:01,056 - At the same time, "The Book of the New Covenant" 15 00:01:01,123 --> 00:01:03,326 is out there being circulated. 16 00:01:03,393 --> 00:01:05,463 This is a dangerous book 17 00:01:05,531 --> 00:01:08,369 to give to some of Ervil's most zealous followers 18 00:01:08,436 --> 00:01:10,541 because these are still men and women 19 00:01:10,608 --> 00:01:15,117 that are willing to kill for their prophet. 20 00:01:15,184 --> 00:01:18,591 If Ervil's insane writings fell into the wrong hands, 21 00:01:18,658 --> 00:01:22,298 it could start a deadly war between his followers. 22 00:01:22,365 --> 00:01:24,335 You've put the lunatics in charge 23 00:01:24,402 --> 00:01:26,072 of the asylum, 24 00:01:26,139 --> 00:01:28,376 and it's going to have a bad result. 25 00:02:06,019 --> 00:02:09,025 - Ervil chose his oldest son, 26 00:02:09,091 --> 00:02:13,901 Arturo, as his successor. 27 00:02:13,968 --> 00:02:17,408 Arturo has been kind of off the radar down in Mexico. 28 00:02:17,475 --> 00:02:20,414 He has this ranch, Rancho La Jolla. 29 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,719 It's this kind of very ramshackle ranch. 30 00:02:22,786 --> 00:02:25,725 And he kind of runs it as a criminal enterprise. 31 00:02:27,261 --> 00:02:30,668 Arturo might call himself a religious prophet, 32 00:02:30,735 --> 00:02:35,878 but he functions more like a Mafia don. 33 00:02:35,945 --> 00:02:39,318 And so he turns the Church of the Lamb of God 34 00:02:39,385 --> 00:02:42,692 to a sort of Mafia-esque shorthand 35 00:02:42,759 --> 00:02:46,734 called the Kingdom of God, or the KOG. 36 00:02:49,104 --> 00:02:53,246 Arthur built his group with the younger generation 37 00:02:53,313 --> 00:02:55,885 of Ervil's followers. 38 00:02:55,952 --> 00:02:58,791 - Most of them were the boys that became 39 00:02:58,858 --> 00:03:01,563 the grown sons of Ervil. 40 00:03:01,630 --> 00:03:06,473 They had separated themselves and isolated themselves. 41 00:03:06,540 --> 00:03:09,312 We didn't have contact with them at all. 42 00:03:09,378 --> 00:03:10,681 - They were young kids 43 00:03:10,748 --> 00:03:12,585 that'd been brainwashed all their life. 44 00:03:12,652 --> 00:03:15,390 This mantle of priesthood BS that had been passed down 45 00:03:15,457 --> 00:03:17,696 to them and all this responsibility for leading 46 00:03:17,763 --> 00:03:20,167 this family and the supposed church organization 47 00:03:20,233 --> 00:03:21,737 just fell on just children. 48 00:03:25,043 --> 00:03:27,515 Arturo and his group start making their money 49 00:03:27,582 --> 00:03:30,420 running a pretty adept auto-theft ring. 50 00:03:30,487 --> 00:03:32,491 - One thing that the cult was very good at always 51 00:03:32,558 --> 00:03:34,696 was stealing cars. 52 00:03:34,763 --> 00:03:39,071 And so they're stealing cars in the United States... 53 00:03:39,138 --> 00:03:42,411 running them across the border to Mexico... 54 00:03:42,477 --> 00:03:44,983 reselling them, or chop-blocking them. 55 00:03:45,050 --> 00:03:48,991 But also, there's reports that Arturo is working 56 00:03:49,058 --> 00:03:50,695 with some of the local narcos. 57 00:03:54,235 --> 00:03:58,142 Arturo creates this culture of chaos and violence. 58 00:03:58,209 --> 00:04:00,080 And he rules with an iron fist. 59 00:04:05,925 --> 00:04:07,929 In December of 1983, 60 00:04:07,996 --> 00:04:10,535 tensions are building between Arturo 61 00:04:10,602 --> 00:04:11,971 and one of his followers. 62 00:04:12,037 --> 00:04:15,077 And this follower wanted power for himself 63 00:04:15,143 --> 00:04:18,149 and control over the criminal operations. 64 00:04:18,216 --> 00:04:20,688 Arturo is ultimately betrayed. 65 00:04:20,754 --> 00:04:22,992 He's shot right in the back. 66 00:04:28,904 --> 00:04:32,077 But the KOG didn't die with Arthur. 67 00:04:32,144 --> 00:04:33,914 It only got worse. 68 00:04:35,818 --> 00:04:37,588 - There were these revelations, 69 00:04:37,655 --> 00:04:39,693 and, of course, they were bizarre. 70 00:04:39,759 --> 00:04:42,497 And dad was saying people need to be blood atoned. 71 00:04:42,565 --> 00:04:45,003 But it became clear to all the adults 72 00:04:45,070 --> 00:04:48,476 who had had a life outside of the cult-- 73 00:04:48,544 --> 00:04:51,583 they could see the deterioration 74 00:04:51,650 --> 00:04:53,219 of what he was saying. Oh. 75 00:04:53,286 --> 00:04:54,589 You're right. 76 00:04:54,656 --> 00:04:57,628 - Our siblings, the teenage boys 77 00:04:57,695 --> 00:05:00,901 who had been raised in it their whole lives, 78 00:05:00,968 --> 00:05:02,470 still were embracing it, 79 00:05:02,538 --> 00:05:05,410 and it was on them to continue to carry it out, 80 00:05:05,477 --> 00:05:06,847 because the older people-- 81 00:05:06,913 --> 00:05:08,416 - And they were in that ranch in Mexico. 82 00:05:08,483 --> 00:05:09,519 You're talking about the people 83 00:05:09,586 --> 00:05:10,955 that were in the ranch in Mexico? 84 00:05:11,021 --> 00:05:13,694 Is it possible that "The Book of the New Covenant" 85 00:05:13,761 --> 00:05:17,234 is the only writings of Ervil they'd ever read? 86 00:05:17,301 --> 00:05:20,441 - I mean, it's possible. - That's actually possible. 87 00:05:20,508 --> 00:05:24,047 They didn't have any idea that this 88 00:05:24,114 --> 00:05:26,419 was actual utter nonsense. 89 00:05:26,486 --> 00:05:29,358 - They had nothing but brainwashing and abuse 90 00:05:29,424 --> 00:05:32,698 and isolation their whole entire lives. 91 00:05:32,765 --> 00:05:34,770 That's all they had, so... Mm-hmm. 92 00:05:34,836 --> 00:05:36,372 So they clung to it. - Yeah. 93 00:05:36,438 --> 00:05:39,946 - They clung to it because... That's all they knew. 94 00:05:40,013 --> 00:05:43,887 - I think it's tremendously hard for people who grow up 95 00:05:43,954 --> 00:05:45,190 with a different mindset 96 00:05:45,257 --> 00:05:48,564 to understand what it's like to inherit a worldview 97 00:05:48,631 --> 00:05:52,037 that is so rigid and violent. 98 00:05:52,104 --> 00:05:56,145 These children were groomed at a very, very young age 99 00:05:56,212 --> 00:05:58,049 to be killers. 100 00:05:58,116 --> 00:06:00,654 They have generations now of violence and trauma 101 00:06:00,721 --> 00:06:01,890 from Ervil LeBaron, 102 00:06:01,957 --> 00:06:04,696 and you've introduced cartel 103 00:06:04,763 --> 00:06:07,034 and money and crime into the mix. 104 00:06:07,101 --> 00:06:10,541 It's just a complete recipe for poison and disaster. 105 00:06:12,945 --> 00:06:17,989 So who steps in after Arturo's murder? 106 00:06:18,056 --> 00:06:20,226 The next in line... 107 00:06:20,293 --> 00:06:23,967 in "The Book of New Covenants" is another son. 108 00:06:26,172 --> 00:06:30,581 - So this is a copy of "The Book of the New Covenant." 109 00:06:30,647 --> 00:06:32,719 "If you will acknowledge William Heber LeBaron 110 00:06:32,785 --> 00:06:35,190 "as your successor, if you do not do this, 111 00:06:35,256 --> 00:06:37,896 "Heber will kill you by my spirit, 112 00:06:37,962 --> 00:06:40,668 "for he is more of a prophet, seer, and revelator 113 00:06:40,734 --> 00:06:44,341 right now than you ever have been or ever will be." 114 00:06:44,408 --> 00:06:47,448 In that passage, he was appointing my brother, Heber, 115 00:06:47,515 --> 00:06:49,752 as the prophet. 116 00:06:49,819 --> 00:06:52,725 Heber is our full brother. 117 00:06:52,792 --> 00:06:54,596 Two and a half years older than me, 118 00:06:54,663 --> 00:06:57,869 but never once picked on me or hit me. 119 00:06:57,936 --> 00:07:02,077 - Heber had always been the sweetest kid. 120 00:07:02,144 --> 00:07:07,187 When we were in the colony, he was the best-behaved child. 121 00:07:07,253 --> 00:07:09,592 - When he was ten years old, 122 00:07:09,659 --> 00:07:12,464 he was moved away from my mother 123 00:07:12,532 --> 00:07:14,669 and taken to Denver 124 00:07:14,736 --> 00:07:17,509 to become a worker of Michael's Appliance 125 00:07:17,575 --> 00:07:20,615 under Dan Jordan. 126 00:07:20,681 --> 00:07:24,021 There was a lot of torment. 127 00:07:26,092 --> 00:07:28,630 And then at some point, like most of my siblings, 128 00:07:28,697 --> 00:07:31,102 Heber was one of the ones that got shuffled around. 129 00:07:31,169 --> 00:07:33,974 And Ervil sent his sons out away from Denver, 130 00:07:34,041 --> 00:07:37,114 and they eventually ended up in Mexico. 131 00:07:37,181 --> 00:07:40,286 We had no idea what was going on in Mexico. 132 00:07:40,353 --> 00:07:41,623 We had lost contact 133 00:07:41,690 --> 00:07:43,995 with everyone that was down there, 134 00:07:44,061 --> 00:07:46,599 including our brother Heber and our other siblings 135 00:07:46,666 --> 00:07:49,706 that were part of the KOG. 136 00:07:49,773 --> 00:07:52,712 - That environment was not a healthy environment 137 00:07:52,779 --> 00:07:54,214 to raise children in. 138 00:07:54,281 --> 00:07:58,924 And what happened there really changed Heber. 139 00:07:58,991 --> 00:08:00,628 - I don't think he felt, like, very spiritual. 140 00:08:00,694 --> 00:08:03,400 He was partying a lot. 141 00:08:03,466 --> 00:08:06,238 He had more in common with the drug-cartel people 142 00:08:06,305 --> 00:08:08,009 that he was doing business with. 143 00:08:08,075 --> 00:08:11,683 - And so, when he's in his 20s and Arturo dies, 144 00:08:11,750 --> 00:08:14,523 Heber's now placed with this mantle of prophet. 145 00:08:14,590 --> 00:08:17,261 You give the mantle of prophet 146 00:08:17,327 --> 00:08:19,599 to a supposed drug-fueled partier. 147 00:08:19,666 --> 00:08:21,570 What could go wrong? 148 00:08:30,922 --> 00:08:34,328 - When our father died, I was 13 years old, 149 00:08:34,394 --> 00:08:36,465 and we were living in Houston at the time. 150 00:08:36,533 --> 00:08:39,539 We lived in our own house with our mom, Anna Mae, 151 00:08:39,606 --> 00:08:42,411 and all of our brothers and sisters. 152 00:08:42,478 --> 00:08:43,914 - Mark was in charge in Houston. 153 00:08:43,981 --> 00:08:47,788 He was married to our sister Lillian. 154 00:08:47,855 --> 00:08:49,993 Mark never claimed to have a priesthood 155 00:08:50,060 --> 00:08:53,032 and continued to somewhat be a believer 156 00:08:53,098 --> 00:08:57,875 but started gradually to edge his way out. 157 00:08:57,942 --> 00:09:00,246 People forget Mark Chynoweth supposedly 158 00:09:00,313 --> 00:09:03,820 is really one of the principal triggermen for the cult. 159 00:09:03,887 --> 00:09:07,561 He's been linked to several murders. 160 00:09:07,628 --> 00:09:10,333 - Even though Mark has a complicated past 161 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,439 and he's allegedly connected to all of these murders, 162 00:09:13,507 --> 00:09:16,145 he's really trying hard to put it behind him. 163 00:09:18,215 --> 00:09:22,123 He was a benevolent leader. 164 00:09:22,190 --> 00:09:26,867 Mark wanted us to have full, wonderful lives. 165 00:09:26,933 --> 00:09:29,038 - As much as was possible 166 00:09:29,105 --> 00:09:31,041 under those circumstances... - Right. 167 00:09:31,108 --> 00:09:35,017 - Because we were still... In a cult. 168 00:09:35,083 --> 00:09:36,385 Even though things 169 00:09:36,451 --> 00:09:38,089 are going pretty well in Houston, 170 00:09:38,155 --> 00:09:40,795 Mark and his crew know that "The Book of the New Covenant" 171 00:09:40,861 --> 00:09:43,165 is out there still making its rounds. 172 00:09:43,232 --> 00:09:46,205 This threat of the hit list is still out there 173 00:09:46,271 --> 00:09:48,042 looming over all of them. 174 00:09:54,789 --> 00:09:56,626 - At this point, I don't know 175 00:09:56,693 --> 00:09:59,799 that I've ever heard about this hit list. 176 00:09:59,865 --> 00:10:04,609 I had heard some talk in whispers. 177 00:10:04,676 --> 00:10:07,180 Mark and Lillian would sometimes whisper 178 00:10:07,247 --> 00:10:08,483 about things. 179 00:10:08,551 --> 00:10:12,157 There was something out there that felt ominous. 180 00:10:13,861 --> 00:10:15,965 With all the rumblings and the rumors 181 00:10:16,032 --> 00:10:18,302 and the secret meetings, 182 00:10:18,369 --> 00:10:21,242 it just felt like something was going to ruin the life 183 00:10:21,308 --> 00:10:22,578 that we had with Mark. 184 00:10:26,719 --> 00:10:28,256 We were so happy in Houston. 185 00:10:28,323 --> 00:10:30,695 Things had been shifting and changing for the better 186 00:10:30,762 --> 00:10:32,230 for so long. 187 00:10:32,297 --> 00:10:35,003 And then one day, I come home, 188 00:10:35,069 --> 00:10:37,709 and there's Dan Jordan at our house 189 00:10:37,775 --> 00:10:39,913 talking to my mom. 190 00:10:39,979 --> 00:10:42,618 That was the last thing I wanted to see. 191 00:10:42,685 --> 00:10:46,793 I knew things were not going well. 192 00:10:46,860 --> 00:10:48,329 Dan lived in Denver, 193 00:10:48,395 --> 00:10:51,102 and he claimed he was the next prophet, 194 00:10:51,169 --> 00:10:52,972 which made sense to my mother 195 00:10:53,039 --> 00:10:55,276 because he had always been the second in command. 196 00:10:55,343 --> 00:10:57,581 Dan was telling my mother 197 00:10:57,648 --> 00:11:01,088 that Mark was leading Ervil's children on a path to hell. 198 00:11:01,155 --> 00:11:03,192 This was the last thing my mom wanted. 199 00:11:03,258 --> 00:11:05,496 - And it's definitely not what Mark was doing. 200 00:11:05,564 --> 00:11:07,067 He was kind. - Mm-hmm. 201 00:11:07,133 --> 00:11:08,670 - He was way more celestial 202 00:11:08,737 --> 00:11:10,874 than Dan Jordan ever dreamed of being. 203 00:11:10,941 --> 00:11:14,047 And my mother did not have 204 00:11:14,114 --> 00:11:18,155 any kind of mental capacity to stand up to Dan 205 00:11:18,222 --> 00:11:20,359 or to stand up for her children. 206 00:11:20,426 --> 00:11:24,502 And eventually she began to be swayed by Dan. 207 00:11:24,568 --> 00:11:27,207 You have to understand, too, 208 00:11:27,274 --> 00:11:32,017 Dan Jordan's backbone of employees was gone. 209 00:11:32,083 --> 00:11:33,887 - We were all in Houston. 210 00:11:33,954 --> 00:11:35,691 Michael's Appliance had collapsed 211 00:11:35,758 --> 00:11:37,561 because they had no slave labor. 212 00:11:37,628 --> 00:11:39,098 - He wanted that support 213 00:11:39,164 --> 00:11:43,507 so that his family could live in the lap of luxury. 214 00:11:43,573 --> 00:11:45,443 After Dan talked to my mom, 215 00:11:45,511 --> 00:11:47,881 I tried to talk to her, and I pleaded with her, 216 00:11:47,948 --> 00:11:50,219 but I could tell she was under Dan's spell. 217 00:11:50,286 --> 00:11:54,996 In my mom's eyes, he had an enormous amount of control 218 00:11:55,063 --> 00:11:59,739 based on his position as the prophet. 219 00:11:59,806 --> 00:12:02,945 I knew my mom was planning to take us back to Denver, 220 00:12:03,012 --> 00:12:07,053 and there was no talking her out of it. 221 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,359 This was the first time in 13 years of my life 222 00:12:10,426 --> 00:12:14,067 that I felt like I had the freedom to make a choice 223 00:12:14,134 --> 00:12:16,773 and make it happen, and so I did. 224 00:12:19,411 --> 00:12:22,886 There was a little phone in the hallway, 225 00:12:22,952 --> 00:12:24,254 and my hands are swe-- 226 00:12:24,321 --> 00:12:27,394 My hands are sweating now just talking about it. 227 00:12:30,701 --> 00:12:34,709 I took the phone, and I quietly called Lillian. 228 00:12:34,776 --> 00:12:39,284 And I said, Lillian, I don't want to go back to Denver. 229 00:12:39,351 --> 00:12:42,457 The last thing I heard her say was, start walking. 230 00:12:47,233 --> 00:12:50,941 I felt like I had one chance-- one chance to get out of there. 231 00:12:53,212 --> 00:12:55,818 So I started walking. 232 00:13:02,932 --> 00:13:05,002 I am absolutely certain 233 00:13:05,069 --> 00:13:07,642 that somebody is going to come and find me. 234 00:13:07,709 --> 00:13:09,311 It was very frightening, 235 00:13:09,378 --> 00:13:14,020 because I knew if somebody saw me, that was the end. 236 00:13:20,333 --> 00:13:23,540 I finally am getting closer to Lillian's house, 237 00:13:23,607 --> 00:13:26,412 and I... 238 00:13:28,449 --> 00:13:30,621 I see her car. 239 00:13:37,802 --> 00:13:40,574 And I was so relieved. 240 00:13:42,343 --> 00:13:44,615 She was like, quick, get in. 241 00:13:48,155 --> 00:13:50,426 I had to go immediately into hiding, 242 00:13:50,493 --> 00:13:53,098 and I was terrified. 243 00:13:53,165 --> 00:13:56,071 Lillian takes me to a motel, 244 00:13:56,138 --> 00:13:59,277 pays for my room in cash. 245 00:13:59,344 --> 00:14:00,881 She's like, here's some money 246 00:14:00,947 --> 00:14:04,755 so that you can buy snacks from the snack machine outside. 247 00:14:07,294 --> 00:14:11,669 Do not open the door unless you hear my voice. 248 00:14:11,736 --> 00:14:14,742 You stay right here. 249 00:14:14,809 --> 00:14:17,313 I'm on pins and needles. 250 00:14:17,380 --> 00:14:19,618 I'm looking around trying to make sure 251 00:14:19,685 --> 00:14:21,956 that my mom isn't after us. 252 00:14:23,425 --> 00:14:26,098 If they came looking for me and found me, 253 00:14:26,165 --> 00:14:28,904 I would miss my one chance to escape. 254 00:14:32,611 --> 00:14:36,218 - My mother came and said, we're leaving back to Denver. 255 00:14:36,285 --> 00:14:38,456 Get a garbage bag, put your belongings in it... 256 00:14:38,523 --> 00:14:40,292 - Oh... - And get in the car. 257 00:14:40,359 --> 00:14:43,600 And I'm like, well, where's Anna? 258 00:14:43,667 --> 00:14:46,071 Why isn't Anna with us? 259 00:14:46,138 --> 00:14:47,708 My mother was searching for her. 260 00:14:47,775 --> 00:14:48,944 She didn't want to leave 261 00:14:49,011 --> 00:14:50,346 without her 13-year-old daughter. 262 00:14:50,413 --> 00:14:52,885 After we had searched for her in all the places 263 00:14:52,952 --> 00:14:55,657 that we could think of, we left. 264 00:14:57,226 --> 00:14:59,666 I was very upset, 265 00:14:59,732 --> 00:15:03,239 but I was fully convinced that we were God's chosen people, 266 00:15:03,306 --> 00:15:07,013 and even losing my sister could not shake my faith. 267 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,952 I didn't see Anna for three years. 268 00:15:17,067 --> 00:15:18,637 When Lillian came, 269 00:15:18,703 --> 00:15:21,610 she said, so your mom and all the other kids 270 00:15:21,676 --> 00:15:23,880 have gone back to Denver, 271 00:15:23,947 --> 00:15:26,151 and the coast is clear. 272 00:15:26,218 --> 00:15:28,990 And she goes, we can go to my house now. 273 00:15:31,963 --> 00:15:35,704 And it was such a relief to me. 274 00:15:35,771 --> 00:15:38,977 This is where I ran away from home. 275 00:15:39,044 --> 00:15:40,847 That was the door I walked out of. 276 00:15:40,914 --> 00:15:42,383 And what I didn't know at the time 277 00:15:42,450 --> 00:15:45,691 was that I was leaving a cult. 278 00:15:45,758 --> 00:15:47,828 I didn't know I was in a cult, 279 00:15:47,895 --> 00:15:51,134 and I didn't know that me running away from home 280 00:15:51,201 --> 00:15:52,905 to go live with Mark and Lillian 281 00:15:52,972 --> 00:15:56,780 was my escape from a cult. 282 00:15:56,846 --> 00:15:59,818 That was the pivotal turning point of my life. 283 00:15:59,885 --> 00:16:01,989 I didn't feel like I was being rebellious. 284 00:16:02,056 --> 00:16:05,162 It never occurred to me that I was going to be isolated 285 00:16:05,229 --> 00:16:07,768 from my mom and my siblings. 286 00:16:10,473 --> 00:16:14,080 All I knew was that I was not going back to Denver. 287 00:16:19,224 --> 00:16:21,194 I can't believe I just started walking. 288 00:16:21,261 --> 00:16:23,700 Like, walked out of the house and-- 289 00:16:23,767 --> 00:16:25,971 - Taking nothing with you... - Taking nothing with me. 290 00:16:26,037 --> 00:16:27,508 - Just whatever you were wearing. 291 00:16:27,574 --> 00:16:29,545 This was your one chance, and you're out the door. 292 00:16:29,612 --> 00:16:30,714 Yeah. 293 00:16:30,781 --> 00:16:32,551 Look at how busy this road is, 294 00:16:32,618 --> 00:16:33,920 and you walked it by yourself. 295 00:16:33,987 --> 00:16:36,291 - I was afraid that somebody was going to see me 296 00:16:36,358 --> 00:16:38,262 and drag me back. Right. 297 00:16:38,328 --> 00:16:40,768 And my story would have been a lot different. 298 00:16:40,834 --> 00:16:44,407 This really was my only chance to get away. 299 00:16:44,474 --> 00:16:46,479 - Yeah. 300 00:16:46,546 --> 00:16:48,917 - I wish you had come with me that day. 301 00:16:51,021 --> 00:16:53,526 Come with me this time. 302 00:16:53,593 --> 00:16:56,533 When mom said, okay, well, we have to go back, 303 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,770 so we'll leave without her. Ay-yi-yi. 304 00:16:58,837 --> 00:17:00,574 Any religion that expects you 305 00:17:00,641 --> 00:17:02,878 to abandon your children, please question your god. 306 00:17:02,944 --> 00:17:04,480 Yeah. 307 00:17:04,548 --> 00:17:06,719 I wish I had gotten out sooner. 308 00:17:08,723 --> 00:17:12,196 - This was the first of many, many more steps 309 00:17:12,263 --> 00:17:16,572 before I could finally feel like I was free. 310 00:17:20,012 --> 00:17:21,883 Meanwhile, in Mexico, 311 00:17:21,950 --> 00:17:24,387 Heber LeBaron is settling into his role 312 00:17:24,454 --> 00:17:27,193 as the new leader and prophet of the KOG. 313 00:17:27,260 --> 00:17:29,732 Where Heber didn't understand God, 314 00:17:29,798 --> 00:17:32,538 he did understand the language of violence, 315 00:17:32,605 --> 00:17:36,311 and his leadership really ushers in this new era 316 00:17:36,378 --> 00:17:38,382 of violence for the KOG. 317 00:17:38,449 --> 00:17:41,388 And one of his first roles as this new leader 318 00:17:41,455 --> 00:17:44,561 was to avenge Arturo's death. 319 00:17:44,628 --> 00:17:47,266 He starts arming everybody, 320 00:17:47,333 --> 00:17:50,540 running drills, training a militia. 321 00:17:50,607 --> 00:17:53,079 Training not just teenagers, like his father, 322 00:17:53,145 --> 00:17:55,349 but children as young as six 323 00:17:55,416 --> 00:17:58,990 to use automatic weapons. 324 00:17:59,057 --> 00:18:01,194 - They take revenge on-- 325 00:18:01,261 --> 00:18:03,332 first, on people within the ranch 326 00:18:03,399 --> 00:18:06,940 who they suspect helped set Arturo up for murder. 327 00:18:07,007 --> 00:18:10,446 So, again, the body count goes up even just on the ranch. 328 00:18:10,514 --> 00:18:13,019 Several people are murdered, disappeared. 329 00:18:13,085 --> 00:18:14,855 Their bodies never found. 330 00:18:14,922 --> 00:18:17,628 Once Heber gets a taste of blood and power, 331 00:18:17,694 --> 00:18:20,967 all of Heber's worst instincts rise to the surface, 332 00:18:21,034 --> 00:18:25,744 and the KOG spirals into complete lawlessness. 333 00:18:25,811 --> 00:18:28,950 So the women now allegedly become trafficked. 334 00:18:29,017 --> 00:18:32,724 They become prostituted and molested and raped. 335 00:18:32,791 --> 00:18:34,862 All the familial lines completely blur. 336 00:18:34,929 --> 00:18:38,135 You have brothers sleeping with their half-sisters, 337 00:18:38,202 --> 00:18:39,805 murdering their half-sisters. 338 00:18:39,872 --> 00:18:43,980 Almost any kind of really deviant sexual 339 00:18:44,047 --> 00:18:47,621 or violent thing you can think of. 340 00:18:47,688 --> 00:18:50,527 - It really is like "Mad Max" in Mexico 341 00:18:50,594 --> 00:18:53,198 meets "Lord of the Flies." 342 00:18:53,265 --> 00:18:55,637 You've kind of reached a point now with Heber 343 00:18:55,704 --> 00:18:58,141 where you've really kind of groomed 344 00:18:58,208 --> 00:19:00,714 potentially a psychopath... 345 00:19:00,781 --> 00:19:03,151 a guy without any moral compass. 346 00:19:03,218 --> 00:19:05,055 Just kind of a killer. 347 00:19:15,309 --> 00:19:16,912 So I'm about 15 years old. 348 00:19:16,979 --> 00:19:19,585 I'm living with Mark and Lillian. 349 00:19:19,652 --> 00:19:22,891 Of course this was a very emotional time 350 00:19:22,958 --> 00:19:24,595 for both Lillian and Mark. 351 00:19:24,662 --> 00:19:27,601 They were definitely edging away 352 00:19:27,667 --> 00:19:31,074 to the fringes of my dad's religion, 353 00:19:31,141 --> 00:19:33,446 but they couldn't announce that 354 00:19:33,513 --> 00:19:36,952 because doing that would put a target on their back. 355 00:19:37,019 --> 00:19:40,660 They had five kids. They were all much younger. 356 00:19:40,727 --> 00:19:42,631 They were in elementary school. 357 00:19:42,698 --> 00:19:44,936 So I was one of the ones that helped take care of them, 358 00:19:45,002 --> 00:19:46,939 including Emily and Lisa. 359 00:19:48,676 --> 00:19:51,481 - I'm Lisa Chynoweth Davis. 360 00:19:51,549 --> 00:19:53,987 - And I'm Emily Chynoweth-Davis. 361 00:19:54,054 --> 00:19:57,795 And we are sisters, not sister wives. 362 00:19:59,899 --> 00:20:03,907 I knew that my parents had run away from this bad thing. 363 00:20:03,973 --> 00:20:05,977 They were so desperate to start a new life, 364 00:20:06,044 --> 00:20:08,850 not just for the kids they were raising but for everyone. 365 00:20:08,917 --> 00:20:11,823 They were chasing the American Dream. 366 00:20:11,889 --> 00:20:14,027 Anna lived with us 367 00:20:14,094 --> 00:20:16,866 for at least five years. 368 00:20:16,933 --> 00:20:19,103 She was like an older sister to us-- 369 00:20:19,170 --> 00:20:21,575 just, like, sweet and fun. Yeah, and smart. 370 00:20:21,642 --> 00:20:23,078 Anna was smart. - Yeah. 371 00:20:23,145 --> 00:20:26,619 - She was really brave, and she escaped the cult. 372 00:20:26,685 --> 00:20:29,257 - They were precious to me. 373 00:20:29,323 --> 00:20:31,195 I loved taking care of them, 374 00:20:31,261 --> 00:20:35,604 and I loved being a little mama's helper to their mom 375 00:20:35,670 --> 00:20:37,641 so that, you know, she could do the things 376 00:20:37,708 --> 00:20:39,310 that she needed to do. 377 00:20:39,377 --> 00:20:42,450 Anna was somebody that my parents loved very much. 378 00:20:42,518 --> 00:20:45,958 They wanted to see her have a wonderful, you know, 379 00:20:46,025 --> 00:20:49,532 chance at life after she had run away from the cult. 380 00:20:49,598 --> 00:20:51,636 - I mean, the way that Mark and Lillian lived 381 00:20:51,702 --> 00:20:54,909 was so different than what I experienced growing up. 382 00:20:54,976 --> 00:20:59,519 Watching them as a monogamous married couple 383 00:20:59,585 --> 00:21:01,789 raising their children 384 00:21:01,856 --> 00:21:04,561 and me getting to just feel like I was part of it. 385 00:21:04,628 --> 00:21:07,066 So it just felt like home to me. 386 00:21:10,941 --> 00:21:13,045 While I was living with Mark and Lillian, 387 00:21:13,112 --> 00:21:16,519 I was putting away some clothes in Lillian's room, 388 00:21:16,586 --> 00:21:20,026 and I found a book. 389 00:21:20,092 --> 00:21:23,064 The book was called the "Prophet of Blood," I think, 390 00:21:23,131 --> 00:21:27,073 "The Untold Story of the Ervil LeBaron Family." 391 00:21:27,140 --> 00:21:30,079 I was like... 392 00:21:30,146 --> 00:21:32,449 what is this? 393 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,796 I knew that the book was not intended for my eyes. 394 00:21:38,863 --> 00:21:40,567 I'm upstairs in my room with the door locked, 395 00:21:40,634 --> 00:21:44,107 reading this book as fast as I could 396 00:21:44,174 --> 00:21:46,344 because I didn't want to get caught. 397 00:21:48,448 --> 00:21:50,553 My blood ran cold. 398 00:21:51,956 --> 00:21:56,131 I found out all the trials and my father going to prison 399 00:21:56,198 --> 00:21:58,435 and all these people that had gone to jail-- 400 00:21:58,502 --> 00:22:02,143 people that I loved, people that I cared about 401 00:22:02,210 --> 00:22:04,515 that left and then never came back. 402 00:22:04,582 --> 00:22:06,752 Some just disappeared into the woodwork. 403 00:22:06,819 --> 00:22:10,359 Some of them had been killed and blood atoned. 404 00:22:10,426 --> 00:22:12,697 I cannot believe 405 00:22:12,764 --> 00:22:17,440 that my dad had ordered these murders. 406 00:22:17,508 --> 00:22:20,647 It was unimaginable. 407 00:22:20,714 --> 00:22:23,485 Everything about how we were raised 408 00:22:23,553 --> 00:22:25,022 and the things that we endured 409 00:22:25,089 --> 00:22:27,594 and all the moving, all the running, 410 00:22:27,661 --> 00:22:31,301 all the raids, all of it-- 411 00:22:31,368 --> 00:22:34,173 all of a sudden, my eyes are opened, 412 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,679 and I realize the truth. 413 00:22:36,746 --> 00:22:39,384 This is when I found out 414 00:22:39,450 --> 00:22:41,421 that I was born and raised in a cult. 415 00:22:43,660 --> 00:22:45,596 Everything that we had been told 416 00:22:45,663 --> 00:22:47,000 about, we were being persecuted 417 00:22:47,066 --> 00:22:49,504 because we were God's chosen people, 418 00:22:49,571 --> 00:22:54,114 all of that was utter bullshit. 419 00:22:54,180 --> 00:22:58,890 I'm about 15 years old trying to take all of this in. 420 00:22:58,957 --> 00:23:02,130 It was a very traumatizing moment for me. 421 00:23:02,196 --> 00:23:04,735 It's not like I can go to Mark and Lillian 422 00:23:04,802 --> 00:23:07,440 and say, help me understand this. 423 00:23:07,508 --> 00:23:10,145 Just like I did my whole rest of my life, 424 00:23:10,212 --> 00:23:13,018 you compartmentalize it, you put it aside, 425 00:23:13,085 --> 00:23:16,692 and then you just keep on going. 426 00:23:16,759 --> 00:23:18,461 Even after reading the book, 427 00:23:18,529 --> 00:23:20,701 it would have never occurred to me to leave Mark and Lillian. 428 00:23:20,767 --> 00:23:22,670 That was in the past for me. 429 00:23:22,737 --> 00:23:25,142 And I believe it was in the past for them, too. 430 00:23:25,209 --> 00:23:27,246 They were good people. 431 00:23:27,313 --> 00:23:30,352 Like, they are the heroes of my story. 432 00:23:30,419 --> 00:23:32,323 Why would I leave that? 433 00:23:34,629 --> 00:23:36,031 - For many of Ervil's offspring, 434 00:23:36,098 --> 00:23:38,301 the realization that they had grown up in a cult 435 00:23:38,368 --> 00:23:39,938 would not come easy, 436 00:23:40,005 --> 00:23:42,343 and, sadly, for some, it would not come at all. 437 00:23:44,615 --> 00:23:46,919 Much like his father Ervil, 438 00:23:46,985 --> 00:23:49,792 Heber starts killing anyone who has an inkling of dissent 439 00:23:49,859 --> 00:23:53,265 or has any thoughts about leaving the group. 440 00:23:53,331 --> 00:23:55,102 Nobody is safe around Heber, 441 00:23:55,169 --> 00:23:57,641 including his most devout followers. 442 00:23:57,708 --> 00:23:59,712 - Heber would kill family members, 443 00:23:59,779 --> 00:24:01,782 family members who were maybe wandering 444 00:24:01,849 --> 00:24:04,922 too far off the reservation, need to be taken care of. 445 00:24:04,989 --> 00:24:09,063 - Heber LeBaron supposedly kills his own brother Andrew. 446 00:24:09,130 --> 00:24:11,669 - Andrew's disappearance becomes a problem for Heber 447 00:24:11,735 --> 00:24:14,240 because Andrew was the KOG's best mechanic. 448 00:24:14,307 --> 00:24:16,745 All of a sudden, their auto-theft ring is crippled, 449 00:24:16,812 --> 00:24:20,285 and with it goes their main source of income. 450 00:24:20,352 --> 00:24:22,023 They're not making money. 451 00:24:22,089 --> 00:24:24,360 They're running out of places to steal from. 452 00:24:24,427 --> 00:24:26,999 His networks are closing in. 453 00:24:27,066 --> 00:24:30,205 The KOG is starting to lose complete faith in Heber, 454 00:24:30,272 --> 00:24:33,144 and they demand that if he doesn't step down, 455 00:24:33,211 --> 00:24:34,313 they're going to make him. 456 00:24:34,380 --> 00:24:35,650 And in his place, 457 00:24:35,717 --> 00:24:38,422 another teenager steps in to fill the void-- 458 00:24:38,488 --> 00:24:40,392 Heber's half-brother Aaron. 459 00:24:42,964 --> 00:24:45,402 - He was basically left in charge. 460 00:24:49,010 --> 00:24:50,178 He was 19. 461 00:24:50,245 --> 00:24:51,950 He was, like, a teenager. 462 00:24:52,016 --> 00:24:54,053 He was, like, 19 maybe. - 17, 18--I don't even know. 463 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:56,892 - He was just a kid... - With a third-grade education. 464 00:24:56,959 --> 00:24:58,395 - Right. 465 00:24:58,462 --> 00:25:01,702 - Aaron's a piece of work in a very different way from Heber. 466 00:25:01,768 --> 00:25:05,476 Aaron is very serious, very quiet. 467 00:25:05,543 --> 00:25:09,150 - Aaron, I think most people liked. 468 00:25:09,217 --> 00:25:11,321 He's more intellectual than Heber 469 00:25:11,388 --> 00:25:13,125 and not as rough on the edges. 470 00:25:13,191 --> 00:25:14,194 I think he's smoother, 471 00:25:14,260 --> 00:25:16,264 and I think Aaron was also more attuned 472 00:25:16,331 --> 00:25:20,840 to the religious aspect of the Lamb of God teachings. 473 00:25:20,907 --> 00:25:23,779 Aaron is very devout. 474 00:25:23,846 --> 00:25:28,121 He forces the kids to pray often and repetitively. 475 00:25:28,188 --> 00:25:32,029 - He was taking the cult back to its religious roots, 476 00:25:32,095 --> 00:25:35,135 to the church that Ervil had created. 477 00:25:37,072 --> 00:25:39,109 So this new teenage prophet 478 00:25:39,176 --> 00:25:41,982 takes the mad ramblings of his father, Ervil, 479 00:25:42,049 --> 00:25:44,922 and makes it the centerpiece of the KOG's mission, 480 00:25:44,989 --> 00:25:49,230 focusing on the deadly hit list hidden within. 481 00:25:49,296 --> 00:25:52,002 This hit list that has 482 00:25:52,069 --> 00:25:54,808 the people who betrayed Ervil LeBaron, 483 00:25:54,875 --> 00:25:56,779 betrayed the church, 484 00:25:56,846 --> 00:26:01,087 that Ervil had marked for blood atonement. 485 00:26:01,153 --> 00:26:02,724 I think that Aaron believed 486 00:26:02,791 --> 00:26:04,393 that he needed to carry out the book 487 00:26:04,460 --> 00:26:06,164 'cause that's what Daddy wrote. 488 00:26:06,231 --> 00:26:08,603 You got to kill all the sons and daughters of perdition. 489 00:26:08,670 --> 00:26:11,040 And if you really want to bring on the Kingdom of God, 490 00:26:11,107 --> 00:26:14,313 if you really believe that, this is what you have to do. 491 00:26:14,380 --> 00:26:17,119 For the first time since Ervil's death, 492 00:26:17,186 --> 00:26:19,858 a true successor finally emerges 493 00:26:19,925 --> 00:26:22,864 to carry the mantle of prophet. 494 00:26:22,931 --> 00:26:24,969 Aaron is smart like Ervil. 495 00:26:25,035 --> 00:26:28,375 He knows how to use scripture to get his siblings 496 00:26:28,442 --> 00:26:30,179 to do his bidding. 497 00:26:30,246 --> 00:26:32,684 Aaron hatches an incredible plan 498 00:26:32,751 --> 00:26:34,755 to hunt down the apostates, 499 00:26:34,821 --> 00:26:37,627 and it's even more evil and ruthless 500 00:26:37,694 --> 00:26:40,900 than anything that Ervil would have orchestrated. 501 00:26:40,967 --> 00:26:42,804 With Aaron as the new prophet 502 00:26:42,871 --> 00:26:44,842 and Heber as his right-hand man, 503 00:26:44,908 --> 00:26:48,248 they set their sights outside of the KOG, 504 00:26:48,315 --> 00:26:51,454 marking their number-one target, 505 00:26:51,522 --> 00:26:55,395 Ervil's second-in-command, Dan Jordan. 506 00:27:01,407 --> 00:27:06,118 - Things had always been hard in Denver and abusive. 507 00:27:06,184 --> 00:27:10,258 When we got back this time, things were even worse. 508 00:27:10,325 --> 00:27:11,829 I am 16. 509 00:27:11,896 --> 00:27:15,870 Unlike Anna, I have no rebellious bone in my body. 510 00:27:15,937 --> 00:27:19,845 I am very committed to following God's plan, 511 00:27:19,912 --> 00:27:23,151 which was to follow Dan. 512 00:27:23,218 --> 00:27:24,486 We just figured 513 00:27:24,554 --> 00:27:27,928 that Dan basically was supposed to run things now 514 00:27:27,994 --> 00:27:30,332 because we totally believed 515 00:27:30,398 --> 00:27:35,075 that he was God's prophet here on Earth. 516 00:27:35,142 --> 00:27:37,680 - Dan Jordan basically used us and abused us 517 00:27:37,747 --> 00:27:39,016 for our slave labor. 518 00:27:39,083 --> 00:27:43,291 Living under his rule was terrible. 519 00:27:43,358 --> 00:27:46,031 I didn't really have any father figures, 520 00:27:46,097 --> 00:27:48,101 so... 521 00:27:48,167 --> 00:27:51,007 I also wanted his approval, 522 00:27:51,074 --> 00:27:55,049 very, very strongly wanted his approval. 523 00:27:55,115 --> 00:27:57,587 Dan Jordan did not have enough money. 524 00:27:57,654 --> 00:27:59,525 He did not have enough workers. 525 00:27:59,591 --> 00:28:01,796 He did not have enough followers. 526 00:28:01,862 --> 00:28:04,868 So he started a mission field in Utah 527 00:28:04,935 --> 00:28:07,540 in order to convert Latter-day Saints 528 00:28:07,607 --> 00:28:09,945 to his fundamentalist beliefs. 529 00:28:10,012 --> 00:28:12,016 And he would elect 530 00:28:12,083 --> 00:28:16,390 different teenagers to go serve. 531 00:28:16,457 --> 00:28:18,428 When Dan approached me and said, 532 00:28:18,495 --> 00:28:20,566 I think it's time for you to go in the mission field, 533 00:28:20,633 --> 00:28:22,937 the big drawback was, 534 00:28:23,004 --> 00:28:25,744 I wouldn't be able to finish going to school. 535 00:28:25,810 --> 00:28:29,316 But I had the commitment that when I finished my mission, 536 00:28:29,383 --> 00:28:31,656 I would be able to go to my senior year, 537 00:28:31,722 --> 00:28:34,527 which is all I was missing. 538 00:28:34,594 --> 00:28:36,765 I was in the mission field. 539 00:28:36,832 --> 00:28:38,936 I went door-to-door with my companion, 540 00:28:39,003 --> 00:28:41,742 preaching what we considered was the true Gospel. 541 00:28:41,809 --> 00:28:44,882 Not everybody allowed us in, but when we did get allowed in, 542 00:28:44,948 --> 00:28:46,417 we put our whole heart 543 00:28:46,484 --> 00:28:49,289 into teaching our bullshit religion to them. 544 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,733 At one point, we're not getting the converts 545 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,137 that Dan thinks that we should. 546 00:28:56,203 --> 00:29:00,980 So Dan brought my mom and one of his wives 547 00:29:01,047 --> 00:29:02,984 to the mission field. 548 00:29:03,051 --> 00:29:05,957 We spent some time sitting around a table, 549 00:29:06,024 --> 00:29:08,829 talked about how we're going about speaking, 550 00:29:08,896 --> 00:29:11,401 what success we had during that day. 551 00:29:11,468 --> 00:29:12,770 And at one point, 552 00:29:12,837 --> 00:29:15,710 he made some kind of a little off-color joke. 553 00:29:15,777 --> 00:29:18,983 He said something like, don't make love on a squeaky bed 554 00:29:19,050 --> 00:29:20,686 or something like that. 555 00:29:20,753 --> 00:29:23,960 So I just kind of rolled my eyes and said, oh, very funny, 556 00:29:24,026 --> 00:29:26,464 as though I really understood what that meant. 557 00:29:28,468 --> 00:29:31,340 That night, after the meeting broke up, 558 00:29:31,407 --> 00:29:35,148 I was awakened by one of Dan's wives. 559 00:29:35,215 --> 00:29:39,089 And she said to me, roll over. 560 00:29:39,156 --> 00:29:41,427 I did as I was told. 561 00:29:41,494 --> 00:29:45,570 My mother had Dan's belt in her hand... 562 00:29:45,636 --> 00:29:50,278 and she began beating me. 563 00:29:50,345 --> 00:29:54,053 My mother whipped me 20 lashes. 564 00:29:55,556 --> 00:29:57,259 It was painful, 565 00:29:57,326 --> 00:30:01,501 but I was crying more out of humiliation. 566 00:30:01,569 --> 00:30:04,841 And the other wife said to me, 567 00:30:04,908 --> 00:30:07,513 you are receiving this beating 568 00:30:07,580 --> 00:30:11,988 because you were disrespectful to the prophet. 569 00:30:12,055 --> 00:30:13,860 Then my mom handed her the belt, 570 00:30:13,927 --> 00:30:18,134 and then Dan's wife proceeded to beat me with 19 lashes, 571 00:30:18,201 --> 00:30:22,711 and they were very, very painful 572 00:30:22,777 --> 00:30:26,752 and left me blistered 573 00:30:26,818 --> 00:30:29,891 and sore and bruised. 574 00:30:34,935 --> 00:30:37,674 The next day, they took me aside 575 00:30:37,740 --> 00:30:42,349 and told me that I might not be celestial material. 576 00:30:42,416 --> 00:30:45,657 And that, to me, 577 00:30:45,723 --> 00:30:47,827 was, like, the worst thing. 578 00:30:47,894 --> 00:30:51,200 I was so, so devastated. 579 00:30:51,267 --> 00:30:53,706 And that was everything I had worked for. 580 00:30:53,773 --> 00:30:56,011 And they informed me 581 00:30:56,077 --> 00:31:00,185 that I was going to work full-time, 582 00:31:00,251 --> 00:31:03,091 that I was not going to go to school. 583 00:31:03,158 --> 00:31:07,099 I was emotionally in devastation. 584 00:31:07,166 --> 00:31:10,238 If they were saying that I wasn't celestial, 585 00:31:10,305 --> 00:31:14,648 then I at least wanted to have my education. 586 00:31:14,714 --> 00:31:16,050 I'll work double. 587 00:31:16,117 --> 00:31:18,155 I'll work as late as they want me to. 588 00:31:18,221 --> 00:31:20,693 Just let me go back to school 589 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,498 and finish my senior year. 590 00:31:23,566 --> 00:31:25,803 But my mom had no power. 591 00:31:27,807 --> 00:31:30,145 One day my mom took me aside, 592 00:31:30,212 --> 00:31:33,619 and very, very quietly 593 00:31:33,686 --> 00:31:35,990 she said... 594 00:31:36,056 --> 00:31:38,729 I guess you better go. 595 00:31:38,796 --> 00:31:41,434 And that was it for me. 596 00:31:43,438 --> 00:31:45,409 I was still a true believer, 597 00:31:45,475 --> 00:31:48,081 and so I knew I was choosing hell, 598 00:31:48,148 --> 00:31:50,218 and I preferred that 599 00:31:50,285 --> 00:31:53,626 to the hell that I was living in. 600 00:31:53,693 --> 00:31:56,531 I have a sister that had gotten out of the cult 601 00:31:56,598 --> 00:31:58,536 several years before me, 602 00:31:58,603 --> 00:32:01,073 and when I called her and said I wanted out, 603 00:32:01,140 --> 00:32:03,245 she was ready and waiting to help me, 604 00:32:03,311 --> 00:32:06,184 and she bought me a plane ticket. 605 00:32:06,251 --> 00:32:09,290 Before I left, I had to say goodbye to my mom 606 00:32:09,357 --> 00:32:11,227 and to Adine and Hyrum. 607 00:32:11,294 --> 00:32:13,364 I wrote all three of them letters 608 00:32:13,431 --> 00:32:15,637 and left them a little gift 609 00:32:15,703 --> 00:32:18,676 because I wanted them to remember me. 610 00:32:18,742 --> 00:32:19,945 The letters said, 611 00:32:20,012 --> 00:32:22,517 I know you're not going to be able to talk to me. 612 00:32:22,584 --> 00:32:24,855 I want you to know that I'm not mad about that, 613 00:32:24,922 --> 00:32:29,163 but just always know that I love you dearly. 614 00:32:31,401 --> 00:32:34,874 I wasn't sure if I would ever see them again. 615 00:32:37,847 --> 00:32:40,920 - I came home, and at the top of the stairs 616 00:32:40,986 --> 00:32:42,791 was just, like, some notes. 617 00:32:45,630 --> 00:32:47,032 And she was gone. 618 00:32:49,705 --> 00:32:51,541 Celia left me a T-shirt. 619 00:32:53,879 --> 00:32:56,484 That shirt was all I had to really remember her by. 620 00:33:08,374 --> 00:33:10,980 I landed in Houston 621 00:33:11,046 --> 00:33:12,717 and walked down the runway, 622 00:33:12,783 --> 00:33:15,488 and there was my sister and her husband. 623 00:33:15,556 --> 00:33:20,131 And I knew in that moment that I was safe. 624 00:33:20,198 --> 00:33:22,703 I moved in with my sister, 625 00:33:22,770 --> 00:33:26,211 and I got reunited with Anna. 626 00:33:26,277 --> 00:33:29,852 It had been three years since we had seen each other, 627 00:33:29,918 --> 00:33:32,022 so we were kind of strangers... 628 00:33:32,089 --> 00:33:33,324 - A little bit, yeah. - To each other. 629 00:33:33,391 --> 00:33:34,928 And we had to get reacquainted. 630 00:33:34,994 --> 00:33:38,869 - I'd been living with Mark and Lillian for several years. 631 00:33:38,936 --> 00:33:41,542 She was a teenager, 632 00:33:41,609 --> 00:33:44,046 and I was, like, close to 20 now. 633 00:33:44,112 --> 00:33:46,719 And she was a little bit worldly... 634 00:33:48,254 --> 00:33:50,258 - I had a boyfriend. - In my mind. 635 00:33:50,324 --> 00:33:52,730 I was halfway through my senior year 636 00:33:52,797 --> 00:33:56,470 in this little tiny school where I was the only senior. 637 00:33:56,538 --> 00:33:58,810 I was going to graduate by myself, 638 00:33:58,876 --> 00:34:01,080 and along comes Celia, 639 00:34:01,147 --> 00:34:04,453 and they let her enroll, and... - And we graduated together. 640 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,925 - We got to graduate together. - Yes. 641 00:34:06,992 --> 00:34:10,533 We have pictures with Lillian behind a little cake 642 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,842 that someone made to celebrate that graduation. 643 00:34:16,812 --> 00:34:18,916 - She's two and a half years younger than me, 644 00:34:18,982 --> 00:34:20,418 but I finally did it. 645 00:34:20,485 --> 00:34:22,389 I finally got a real high-school education. 646 00:34:22,456 --> 00:34:25,930 - May of 1987, and we have the entire senior class 647 00:34:25,997 --> 00:34:29,971 of two of Spring Branch Church of God Academy. 648 00:34:38,656 --> 00:34:42,162 I was still married to Dan Jordan. 649 00:34:42,229 --> 00:34:44,701 We lived in Colorado at our house 650 00:34:44,768 --> 00:34:46,805 out in the country. 651 00:34:46,872 --> 00:34:50,145 I had heard that Ervil had a hit list 652 00:34:50,212 --> 00:34:53,619 of people that wouldn't do what Ervil said. 653 00:34:53,686 --> 00:34:55,823 But we weren't really worried 654 00:34:55,890 --> 00:34:58,161 'cause we thought God would protect us. 655 00:35:00,498 --> 00:35:03,171 So what ends up happening is Dan Jordan 656 00:35:03,237 --> 00:35:05,308 gets a knock on his door one night, 657 00:35:05,375 --> 00:35:08,916 and he opens the door, and there's seven kids 658 00:35:08,983 --> 00:35:12,322 from Rancho La Jolla, led by Aaron LeBaron. 659 00:35:14,761 --> 00:35:17,433 - What they basically say is, Dan, we need your help. 660 00:35:17,499 --> 00:35:19,738 Our brother Heber's gone power mad. 661 00:35:19,804 --> 00:35:22,309 He's abusive. It's violent. 662 00:35:22,376 --> 00:35:23,979 - They said, hey, we don't believe 663 00:35:24,046 --> 00:35:25,315 in what we were doing anymore. 664 00:35:25,381 --> 00:35:27,085 We don't believe that's the true church. 665 00:35:27,152 --> 00:35:28,522 We believe you are. 666 00:35:28,589 --> 00:35:30,826 - They say to Jordan, if you'll take us in, 667 00:35:30,893 --> 00:35:33,364 we'll work for free in your repair shop. 668 00:35:35,569 --> 00:35:38,141 - So now Dan is faced with this choice. 669 00:35:38,207 --> 00:35:41,749 Does he trust these seven teenagers 670 00:35:41,815 --> 00:35:44,186 standing on his porch? 671 00:35:44,253 --> 00:35:46,692 But his business isn't doing so well. 672 00:35:46,759 --> 00:35:49,564 And you know what? He could use some LeBaron laborers again. 673 00:35:49,631 --> 00:35:51,735 This is probably, in my mind, 674 00:35:51,802 --> 00:35:55,475 motivated more by greed than altruism. 675 00:35:55,543 --> 00:35:57,479 And so he takes them in, 676 00:35:57,547 --> 00:36:01,020 and he puts them to work in his repair shop. 677 00:36:01,087 --> 00:36:04,527 But now he starts carrying a 9-millimeter pistol 678 00:36:04,594 --> 00:36:07,700 on him at all times because he doesn't trust these kids. 679 00:36:11,775 --> 00:36:14,213 I was probably 16 years old at the time. 680 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:15,348 I knew them. 681 00:36:15,415 --> 00:36:16,785 I knew they were my siblings, 682 00:36:16,852 --> 00:36:18,789 but I didn't have a really good relationship with them. 683 00:36:18,856 --> 00:36:21,394 Aaron-- he just seemed weird to me. 684 00:36:21,461 --> 00:36:23,364 His mannerisms were odd. 685 00:36:23,431 --> 00:36:25,401 I do remember him talking one time 686 00:36:25,468 --> 00:36:27,373 about training they had received growing up 687 00:36:27,439 --> 00:36:29,811 about how to kill people. 688 00:36:33,451 --> 00:36:35,221 When you were sent to do an assassination, 689 00:36:35,288 --> 00:36:39,063 you had to present an outward appearance of kindness 690 00:36:39,129 --> 00:36:41,367 and smile so they were off guard. 691 00:36:41,434 --> 00:36:43,371 And then you would walk up to them 692 00:36:43,438 --> 00:36:45,776 and shoot them in the chest twice. 693 00:36:50,753 --> 00:36:52,322 And then you shoot them in the head once 694 00:36:52,388 --> 00:36:53,391 to make sure they were dead. 695 00:37:00,573 --> 00:37:03,812 It's now fall of 1987, 696 00:37:03,879 --> 00:37:06,283 and Dan Jordan prepares his family 697 00:37:06,350 --> 00:37:08,154 for the great deer hunt. 698 00:37:10,324 --> 00:37:12,663 The only time he really spent with the children 699 00:37:12,730 --> 00:37:14,701 was when he'd take them camping 700 00:37:14,768 --> 00:37:17,439 and he would take them hunting-- 701 00:37:17,507 --> 00:37:19,978 deer hunting. 702 00:37:20,044 --> 00:37:23,719 Hunting was also a pretty regular thing we did. 703 00:37:23,785 --> 00:37:26,424 We needed to be good at hunting for several reasons. 704 00:37:26,491 --> 00:37:28,094 One of them-- when the end times came 705 00:37:28,161 --> 00:37:29,598 and we had to run to the mountains, 706 00:37:29,664 --> 00:37:32,035 we'd have to survive off the land for a while, 707 00:37:32,102 --> 00:37:34,073 so you had to know how to hunt. 708 00:37:34,139 --> 00:37:37,379 And you also had to be psychologically tough enough 709 00:37:37,446 --> 00:37:38,849 to be able to kill something, 710 00:37:38,915 --> 00:37:40,786 so that if you ever had to kill someone, 711 00:37:40,853 --> 00:37:42,924 you would already be kind of inured to that. 712 00:37:46,698 --> 00:37:48,769 - Dan Jordan-- he still doesn't quite know 713 00:37:48,836 --> 00:37:50,739 what to do with these KOG members. 714 00:37:50,806 --> 00:37:52,877 Does he take them camping as part of the family? 715 00:37:52,944 --> 00:37:54,246 Does he leave them home? 716 00:37:54,312 --> 00:37:55,916 He sort of settles on a compromise. 717 00:37:55,983 --> 00:37:58,121 He's going to bring some of the kids, 718 00:37:58,188 --> 00:38:01,127 including Aaron LeBaron. 719 00:38:01,194 --> 00:38:04,734 - I stayed in Colorado to take care of all the babies, 720 00:38:04,801 --> 00:38:07,873 and he took all the older kids with him. 721 00:38:12,216 --> 00:38:14,486 We got to the main camping area. 722 00:38:14,554 --> 00:38:17,226 Dan and the women and younger children 723 00:38:17,292 --> 00:38:18,963 set up camp. 724 00:38:19,029 --> 00:38:22,804 We built a fire, and we were there for a few hours 725 00:38:22,871 --> 00:38:26,176 just having a pretty grand old time. 726 00:38:26,243 --> 00:38:28,516 There are a few people out in the woods. 727 00:38:28,582 --> 00:38:30,084 They're hunting. 728 00:38:34,426 --> 00:38:37,166 And Dan Jordan is back at camp, 729 00:38:37,232 --> 00:38:40,138 and nature calls. 730 00:38:40,205 --> 00:38:41,841 Dan Jordan was known 731 00:38:41,908 --> 00:38:43,846 for always carrying a gun at his side, 732 00:38:43,912 --> 00:38:45,883 but for some reason, he lets his guard down 733 00:38:45,950 --> 00:38:48,789 and leaves his gun back at camp. 734 00:38:48,855 --> 00:38:51,761 So he walks away to go to the bathroom. 735 00:38:51,828 --> 00:38:54,166 He goes and starts to do his business. 736 00:39:04,587 --> 00:39:08,762 And the sound of gunshots echo through the canyon. 737 00:39:20,285 --> 00:39:23,290 - It was a little bit before dusk. 738 00:39:23,357 --> 00:39:27,198 We heard one of Dan's other sons yelling to us, 739 00:39:27,265 --> 00:39:28,969 trying to get our attention. 740 00:39:30,539 --> 00:39:32,208 And he was moving in our direction, 741 00:39:32,275 --> 00:39:33,812 and he seemed, like, distressed. 742 00:39:36,284 --> 00:39:39,757 He walks right into the camp out of the woods. 743 00:39:39,824 --> 00:39:43,397 He just went down to a knee and said, dad's dead. 744 00:39:43,464 --> 00:39:45,235 And it was just, like, a shock. 745 00:39:45,302 --> 00:39:47,406 Like, what do you mean? 746 00:39:47,472 --> 00:39:50,445 He's like, dad's dead. We got to go. 747 00:39:57,092 --> 00:39:58,928 So the police show up, 748 00:39:58,995 --> 00:40:01,634 and, of course, the group circles the wagons. 749 00:40:06,243 --> 00:40:07,713 - I was a prosecutor 750 00:40:07,780 --> 00:40:09,717 both at the Utah Attorney General's Office 751 00:40:09,784 --> 00:40:11,955 and in the U.S. Attorney's Office 752 00:40:12,021 --> 00:40:15,663 specializing in murders and violent crime. 753 00:40:15,729 --> 00:40:18,167 The law enforcement, the response-- 754 00:40:18,233 --> 00:40:20,706 they realized fairly quickly 755 00:40:20,773 --> 00:40:23,545 that a group of these people 756 00:40:23,612 --> 00:40:26,350 aren't Jordans but are LeBarons. 757 00:40:26,416 --> 00:40:28,087 I mean, they're dangerous people. 758 00:40:28,154 --> 00:40:30,859 They had proven to be dangerous in the past. 759 00:40:30,926 --> 00:40:33,498 - All the LeBaron kids are questioned, including Aaron, 760 00:40:33,565 --> 00:40:36,537 and the police are suspicious of Aaron right away, 761 00:40:36,604 --> 00:40:38,173 but they couldn't find any evidence 762 00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:41,347 that he or any of his siblings had killed Dan. 763 00:40:41,413 --> 00:40:43,552 - I mean, Aaron and all the kids were accounted for 764 00:40:43,618 --> 00:40:44,988 at the time of the homicide. 765 00:40:45,054 --> 00:40:47,794 I mean, somebody was with them, so they had alibis. 766 00:40:47,860 --> 00:40:49,897 At that time, they didn't know for sure who shot him. 767 00:40:49,964 --> 00:40:52,135 I'm sure they had suspicions. 768 00:40:52,202 --> 00:40:55,108 - No eyewitnesses to the murder 769 00:40:55,174 --> 00:40:57,880 other than the person who did the shooting 770 00:40:57,946 --> 00:41:00,519 and Dan Jordan, who's dead. 771 00:41:00,586 --> 00:41:02,923 After the police interrogate the group, 772 00:41:02,990 --> 00:41:05,562 they leave with nobody in custody 773 00:41:05,629 --> 00:41:08,134 but a lot of questions and suspicions. 774 00:41:10,338 --> 00:41:13,812 I received a call in, like, the middle of the night, 775 00:41:13,879 --> 00:41:17,018 and they told me that Dan had been murdered. 776 00:41:17,085 --> 00:41:20,057 I was... 777 00:41:20,124 --> 00:41:21,528 petrified. 778 00:41:21,595 --> 00:41:24,099 I'm like, if they could get to him-- 779 00:41:24,166 --> 00:41:26,504 and he was the prophet, mind you-- 780 00:41:26,571 --> 00:41:27,840 I wouldn't doubt it at all 781 00:41:27,907 --> 00:41:30,546 if they would come and try and kill everybody. 782 00:41:30,613 --> 00:41:32,382 - It just felt... 783 00:41:32,449 --> 00:41:34,554 unreal. 784 00:41:34,620 --> 00:41:36,824 But... 785 00:41:36,891 --> 00:41:39,129 There's a sense of relief. 786 00:41:39,196 --> 00:41:41,868 Like, this is over. 787 00:41:41,934 --> 00:41:44,206 He did things to myself and my family 788 00:41:44,273 --> 00:41:46,310 and my siblings that... 789 00:41:46,377 --> 00:41:48,447 are unconscionable. 790 00:41:51,955 --> 00:41:55,796 - I had just finished a long shift working in the shop, 791 00:41:55,863 --> 00:41:59,102 and I get word that Mark wants to talk to us. 792 00:42:01,073 --> 00:42:04,212 And then Mark proceeds to tell us 793 00:42:04,279 --> 00:42:07,218 that Dan Jordan had been shot and killed. 794 00:42:07,285 --> 00:42:11,393 I knew that this was the work of our family. 795 00:42:11,460 --> 00:42:13,832 - I remember the adults gathering together... 796 00:42:13,899 --> 00:42:15,735 Yeah. - And talking. 797 00:42:15,802 --> 00:42:18,474 And sort of you knew someone had been killed. 798 00:42:18,542 --> 00:42:20,612 I had this ominous feeling. 799 00:42:20,679 --> 00:42:22,817 There was this overarching sense 800 00:42:22,883 --> 00:42:24,888 of, like, people are scared. 801 00:42:24,954 --> 00:42:28,729 - Mark also told us that there was a hit list 802 00:42:28,795 --> 00:42:33,004 and that he and his brother Duane 803 00:42:33,071 --> 00:42:36,344 and my brother Ed were on it. 804 00:42:36,410 --> 00:42:37,680 - When Jordan's murdered, 805 00:42:37,747 --> 00:42:40,585 the fear factor just went through the roof. 806 00:42:40,652 --> 00:42:43,190 Ervil's been dead for six years, 807 00:42:43,257 --> 00:42:44,827 and now all of a sudden, 808 00:42:44,894 --> 00:42:47,633 it seems that somebody is working through the list 809 00:42:47,700 --> 00:42:50,739 of the people he wanted to be killed. 810 00:42:50,806 --> 00:42:54,581 - All the adults that had not followed 811 00:42:54,647 --> 00:42:56,785 my dad's orders had to be taken out. 812 00:42:56,852 --> 00:42:59,089 This was a real threat. 813 00:42:59,156 --> 00:43:03,532 - We knew that if they were going in order of this list, 814 00:43:03,598 --> 00:43:06,169 then our dad would be next. 815 00:43:08,642 --> 00:43:10,679 - It's almost as if Ervil's voice 816 00:43:10,746 --> 00:43:12,415 is coming from beyond the grave 817 00:43:12,482 --> 00:43:14,987 to threaten Mark Chynoweth. 818 00:43:15,054 --> 00:43:19,395 - Mark tells us that we aren't going to run and hide. 819 00:43:19,462 --> 00:43:22,536 We're all going to start carrying weapons. 820 00:43:22,603 --> 00:43:25,609 When somebody would come to the store to buy an appliance, 821 00:43:25,675 --> 00:43:27,746 we had to be ever vigilant. 822 00:43:27,813 --> 00:43:30,118 I just graduated from high school, 823 00:43:30,184 --> 00:43:32,255 just thinking my life is just getting started, 824 00:43:32,322 --> 00:43:35,227 and the family-of-origin horror story 825 00:43:35,294 --> 00:43:36,798 that I was born into 826 00:43:36,865 --> 00:43:39,537 is just pulling me right back into it. 827 00:43:51,059 --> 00:43:52,663 Two days after the killing, 828 00:43:52,730 --> 00:43:55,869 Aaron was conspicuously present at Jordan's funeral. 829 00:43:55,936 --> 00:44:00,111 He was intent on taking on Ervil's mantle. 830 00:44:00,178 --> 00:44:02,215 Right after Dan's funeral, 831 00:44:02,282 --> 00:44:04,921 they all go back to the Jordan home, 832 00:44:04,988 --> 00:44:07,225 and Aaron starts waving his gun around 833 00:44:07,292 --> 00:44:11,166 and declaring himself to be the one mighty and strong. 834 00:44:11,233 --> 00:44:15,509 - The police responded, took Aaron into custody. 835 00:44:15,576 --> 00:44:17,613 He was arrested on the minor charge 836 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,049 of disturbing the peace. 837 00:44:19,116 --> 00:44:21,386 But even on that charge, he managed to get off 838 00:44:21,453 --> 00:44:24,793 because the Jordan wives withdrew their complaints. 839 00:44:24,860 --> 00:44:28,500 They feared further LeBaron vengeance. 840 00:44:28,568 --> 00:44:31,207 - Aaron promptly vanished, 841 00:44:31,273 --> 00:44:35,014 you know, as so many of his predecessors had in the past. 842 00:44:35,081 --> 00:44:38,153 The whole trail went cold, 843 00:44:38,220 --> 00:44:40,659 but we didn't stop investigating. 844 00:44:40,726 --> 00:44:42,495 I don't think there was one person 845 00:44:42,563 --> 00:44:44,066 involved in the investigation 846 00:44:44,132 --> 00:44:47,606 that didn't think that there were going to be more murders. 847 00:44:47,673 --> 00:44:49,175 Even though Mark 848 00:44:49,242 --> 00:44:53,317 has this very complicated past, 849 00:44:53,383 --> 00:44:54,553 he tries to ignore it. 850 00:44:54,620 --> 00:44:58,160 He tries to just live his life boldly and unafraid, 851 00:44:58,227 --> 00:45:02,636 and that was probably a mistake. 852 00:45:02,703 --> 00:45:06,443 It was my parents' solid intentional aim 853 00:45:06,510 --> 00:45:09,917 to raise us in a way that we were not fearful, 854 00:45:09,984 --> 00:45:13,190 that this did not interfere with our lives. 855 00:45:13,257 --> 00:45:16,296 Our parents did have the intent to protect us 856 00:45:16,363 --> 00:45:18,735 from the traumas that they had grown up with, 857 00:45:18,801 --> 00:45:23,410 so I think there was this sort of a beautiful denial of... 858 00:45:23,477 --> 00:45:25,949 that's just not going to be our focus. 859 00:45:26,016 --> 00:45:29,422 - That fear of anything happening 860 00:45:29,489 --> 00:45:33,331 began to dissipate after a few months, 861 00:45:33,397 --> 00:45:36,738 and then the longer it went where nothing happened, 862 00:45:36,804 --> 00:45:41,514 you know, you kind of get back into a sense of normalcy, 863 00:45:41,581 --> 00:45:43,150 if that's even possible. 864 00:45:43,217 --> 00:45:44,954 - Certainly, I think at that point, 865 00:45:45,021 --> 00:45:47,760 the Chynoweths and Eddie Marston were on notice, 866 00:45:47,826 --> 00:45:49,897 but I don't think anybody 867 00:45:49,964 --> 00:45:52,603 really suspected what was about to happen. 868 00:45:57,947 --> 00:45:59,651 June 27th-- 869 00:45:59,717 --> 00:46:02,723 I was supposed to be at the shop that day with Mark. 870 00:46:02,789 --> 00:46:05,394 I had been sick for quite some time. 871 00:46:05,461 --> 00:46:08,802 Lillian found me on the couch drowsy, 872 00:46:08,869 --> 00:46:10,906 and she says to me, 873 00:46:10,972 --> 00:46:14,212 why don't you just stay home today? 874 00:46:14,279 --> 00:46:16,116 I was shocked and relieved 875 00:46:16,182 --> 00:46:19,455 that she was giving me the day off. 876 00:46:19,523 --> 00:46:22,829 I did not have to go to work sick, 877 00:46:22,896 --> 00:46:25,067 but I was going to have to stay home 878 00:46:25,134 --> 00:46:28,173 and take care of the kids. 879 00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:30,813 The two Chynoweth brothers, Mark and Duane, 880 00:46:30,879 --> 00:46:32,248 have appliance repair shops 881 00:46:32,315 --> 00:46:34,887 in two different parts of West Houston. 882 00:46:34,953 --> 00:46:37,092 Eddie Marston is doing the same thing up in Irving, 883 00:46:37,158 --> 00:46:39,863 which is a suburb of Dallas. 884 00:46:39,930 --> 00:46:42,402 - Both Duane and Eddie had received calls 885 00:46:42,469 --> 00:46:44,574 about used appliances being for sale. 886 00:46:44,641 --> 00:46:48,414 Both are told to meet their clients at 4:00 p.m. 887 00:46:48,481 --> 00:46:51,019 at different locations. 888 00:46:51,086 --> 00:46:53,558 Eddie gets in his car to meet his client. 889 00:46:53,625 --> 00:46:56,029 Duane gets in his car, with his younger daughter 890 00:46:56,095 --> 00:46:58,334 Jenny tagging along for the ride. 891 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,340 Duane and Jenny pull their truck to the house. 892 00:47:01,406 --> 00:47:03,611 It looks abandoned. No one's home. 893 00:47:06,450 --> 00:47:09,456 But then a Chevy Silverado pulls into the driveway, 894 00:47:09,523 --> 00:47:10,759 blocking them in. 895 00:47:13,030 --> 00:47:15,067 - At almost the exact same moment, 896 00:47:15,134 --> 00:47:17,138 Eddie Marston pulls into this address 897 00:47:17,205 --> 00:47:19,977 he's been given in Irving. 898 00:47:20,044 --> 00:47:21,346 And he's approached 899 00:47:21,412 --> 00:47:23,751 by a man in a blue suit with a beard. 900 00:47:26,123 --> 00:47:27,358 At the same time, 901 00:47:27,425 --> 00:47:29,863 a man wearing a blue suit with a beard 902 00:47:29,930 --> 00:47:33,437 walks into the office of Mark Chynoweth's shop. 903 00:47:39,783 --> 00:47:44,092 - At 4:00 p.m., in three different locations, 904 00:47:44,159 --> 00:47:47,465 the men approach Eddie, Duane, and Mark. 905 00:47:49,102 --> 00:47:53,545 It's the start of the most ruthless assassination plot 906 00:47:53,612 --> 00:47:56,383 the LeBaron group has ever pulled.