1 00:00:17,260 --> 00:00:21,400 As a journalist, you are consumed by two questions constantly. 2 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:27,280 How to tell a story, but perhaps more crucially, why to tell a story. 3 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:29,800 Imagine a country. 4 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,280 Nice weather, let's give it a nice weather. 5 00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:34,740 Nice weather for England, anyway. 6 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:40,560 Imagine the people in this country believe they are living in a democracy. 7 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,180 Believe in their own freedom. 8 00:00:43,820 --> 00:00:45,300 But they are being abused. 9 00:00:46,140 --> 00:00:50,400 By a power so every day they don't know to look for it. A treacherous 10 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:55,080 combination of press, the police and politicians that hide in plain sight. 11 00:00:56,180 --> 00:01:02,540 Imagine a country where that concealment was... Imagine a country where, where 12 00:01:02,540 --> 00:01:05,140 the news organisations... Shit. 13 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,920 Imagine an old, deleted, florid mountain. 14 00:01:12,860 --> 00:01:14,500 My name is Mick Davies. 15 00:01:15,130 --> 00:01:19,890 I'm a journalist, and this is a story that ends in seven major police 16 00:01:19,890 --> 00:01:24,690 investigations, nearly 40 convictions, and some of the most powerful people in 17 00:01:24,690 --> 00:01:26,550 this country being brought to their knees. 18 00:01:27,430 --> 00:01:29,330 Two grand, two grand, two grand. 19 00:01:34,130 --> 00:01:36,430 My name is Nick Davis. 20 00:01:36,970 --> 00:01:38,050 I'm a journalist. 21 00:01:38,490 --> 00:01:42,570 Morning. This all started with Stuart Cutler. Hello. 22 00:01:51,340 --> 00:01:54,400 This is the most troubling story I've ever written. 23 00:01:54,620 --> 00:01:59,260 A story about the abuse of power and the concealment of truth. 24 00:01:59,740 --> 00:02:02,280 Hi. Hi. Nick Davis for the Today programme. 25 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:03,720 I'm Nathan. 26 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,180 British journalism is floppy and morally bankrupt. 27 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,120 That is the claim of the journalist Nick Davies, who's written a book that shows 28 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,040 how often newspapers use illegal methods for getting their stories. 29 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,740 It's called Flat Earth News, and Nick Davies joins us now. Good morning. 30 00:02:27,980 --> 00:02:29,040 Hi. You say... 31 00:02:29,500 --> 00:02:33,880 sloppy, because newspapers use press releases rather than getting their own 32 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:38,100 stories, and morally bankrupt because of the illegality involved. 33 00:02:38,420 --> 00:02:42,540 Really, the root that binds together all the different themes is that the logic 34 00:02:42,540 --> 00:02:47,440 of journalism has been overwhelmed by the logic of commercialism. Journalists 35 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,520 longer have the time or the resources to do their jobs properly. Instead, 36 00:02:50,620 --> 00:02:55,180 they're just passive processors of unchecked, second -hand material. Okay, 37 00:02:55,180 --> 00:02:58,300 you also, you go much further in suggesting that there has been 38 00:02:59,030 --> 00:03:03,810 criminality involved, and that's generally accepted within the press. 39 00:03:03,810 --> 00:03:06,390 principally that involves hiring private investigators. 40 00:03:06,590 --> 00:03:10,430 They hire private investigators to get your bank statements, your credit card 41 00:03:10,430 --> 00:03:14,430 statements, your itemised phone bills, your tax record, even your health 42 00:03:14,430 --> 00:03:16,790 these creatures are getting. All of that is illegal. 43 00:03:17,090 --> 00:03:20,570 Okay, we're joined by John Mullen, who is the editor of The Independent on 44 00:03:20,570 --> 00:03:24,670 Sunday, and Stuart Cutner, who's managing editor of News of the World. 45 00:03:24,670 --> 00:03:27,130 Mullen, do you recognise this? 46 00:03:27,610 --> 00:03:32,590 Well, I ploughed my way through the first half of the book, not the second 47 00:03:32,590 --> 00:03:37,870 so far. And no one can deny that life in journalism is much harder than maybe it 48 00:03:37,870 --> 00:03:43,110 was 20, 30 years ago. But to say that journalism as a whole is a passive 49 00:03:43,110 --> 00:03:48,870 processor of news, I think that's erroneous. Stuart Kupner. Yes, I'll tell 50 00:03:48,870 --> 00:03:50,870 what I think. I think, frankly... 51 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:56,020 Listening to Nick Davis, I thought he was speaking from a newsroom on another 52 00:03:56,020 --> 00:04:02,600 planet. It is totally unrecognisable to me. Many years in newspapers in Fleet 53 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:07,040 Street, now, of course, at the News of the World. So what did he say that was 54 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,040 wrong? 55 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,240 Well, he talks about, if you like, shortcuts. 56 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:17,560 PR interest, commercial interest. I have to tell you, none of my News of the 57 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,260 World journalists would recognize that at all. But what about the way these 58 00:04:21,260 --> 00:04:24,900 people get the stories and access to personal information? 59 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,920 Well, if it happens, it... 60 00:04:28,770 --> 00:04:33,110 Shouldn't happen. It happened once at the News of the World. The reporter was 61 00:04:33,110 --> 00:04:38,070 fired. He went to prison. The editor resigned. And while Nick is talking 62 00:04:38,070 --> 00:04:43,330 all this, I notice he doesn't mention the Guardian's own act of criminality 63 00:04:43,330 --> 00:04:48,370 the Guardian forged the signature of a cabinet minister. OK, I don't want to go 64 00:04:48,370 --> 00:04:51,530 into detail of the story. I think the fact that Nick Davis... You may not want 65 00:04:51,530 --> 00:04:55,870 to go into detail, but Nick makes a broad brush sweeping attack on our 66 00:04:55,870 --> 00:04:59,420 profession, which I happen to believe. is an honourable profession. 67 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:05,800 You 68 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:14,940 hear 69 00:05:14,940 --> 00:05:15,859 that? 70 00:05:15,860 --> 00:05:17,140 I wish I hadn't. 71 00:05:18,380 --> 00:05:19,380 You're too kind. 72 00:05:19,740 --> 00:05:24,700 I did say appearing on the Today program to attack journalism wasn't exactly the 73 00:05:24,700 --> 00:05:25,740 most sensible idea. 74 00:05:26,020 --> 00:05:28,180 Listen, before I go home, I wanted to talk to you about something else. Good 75 00:05:28,180 --> 00:05:29,740 thing was you weren't representing the Guardian. 76 00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:32,300 You were talking about your book. 77 00:05:32,940 --> 00:05:37,240 My book. Oh, Kuttner did have a good go at trying to besmirch us through you. 78 00:05:37,740 --> 00:05:38,740 I want out. 79 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,960 Do you know anything about baking competitions? 80 00:05:44,540 --> 00:05:48,040 I want to know how many people cheat at baking competitions. 81 00:05:49,150 --> 00:05:50,150 Round number. 82 00:05:50,590 --> 00:05:52,710 Exactly the sort of thing the Guardian should be investigating. 83 00:05:53,210 --> 00:05:54,310 I don't mean out altogether. 84 00:05:54,670 --> 00:05:55,710 I'd like to go to Brussels. 85 00:05:56,030 --> 00:05:57,330 Investigate a whole new horizon. 86 00:05:57,590 --> 00:05:58,590 Something well -paid. 87 00:05:58,650 --> 00:06:01,430 Naturally. That will allow me to commute. The kids are old enough now to 88 00:06:01,430 --> 00:06:02,450 to... I need you here. 89 00:06:06,610 --> 00:06:07,610 Sadiq Khan. 90 00:06:07,890 --> 00:06:09,910 Bugged. Forty -year convention. 91 00:06:10,570 --> 00:06:11,570 Briefed. And why? 92 00:06:11,670 --> 00:06:13,150 Keep the Americans happy. 93 00:06:13,410 --> 00:06:14,570 Needs a good journalist. 94 00:06:14,850 --> 00:06:15,850 I'm not good. 95 00:06:15,890 --> 00:06:17,570 Nobody likes me. Oh, come on. 96 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,000 I like you. 97 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:20,300 Some of the time. 98 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,340 And I'm sure there are a few others who also... Please. 99 00:06:25,780 --> 00:06:28,920 Self -pity is not a redeeming quality. We'll talk tomorrow. 100 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:30,320 I'm freelance. 101 00:06:30,740 --> 00:06:32,460 Precisely. I don't need to talk to you tomorrow. 102 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:38,060 You're freelance with more or less a sole employer. I say you should talk to 103 00:06:38,060 --> 00:06:39,060 tomorrow. 104 00:06:39,260 --> 00:06:41,920 We've all been roasted by Stuart bloody Cutler. 105 00:06:42,540 --> 00:06:43,540 Bye. 106 00:06:50,190 --> 00:06:56,170 Let me explain. Alan is, um... Well, we grew up together in journalism, that is, 107 00:06:56,210 --> 00:06:58,510 and he has always understood... Sorry. 108 00:06:58,990 --> 00:07:00,710 Yep. Nick Davis. 109 00:07:00,990 --> 00:07:01,990 Who's this? 110 00:07:02,190 --> 00:07:08,850 My name is... Redacted. Sorry. We'll call him Mr. Apollo because, um... Well, 111 00:07:08,850 --> 00:07:11,470 actually, because he is... It doesn't matter. 112 00:07:12,070 --> 00:07:13,170 How did you get this number? 113 00:07:13,870 --> 00:07:15,430 Listen, Kuttner made a mistake. 114 00:07:16,090 --> 00:07:19,030 Well, I know several chief amongst them appearing on the Today program. 115 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,040 He said it happened once. 116 00:07:21,780 --> 00:07:26,540 It happened once. It happened once upon the news of the world. The reporter was 117 00:07:26,540 --> 00:07:29,380 fired. He went to prison. The editor resigned. 118 00:07:30,340 --> 00:07:31,780 You're talking about phone hacking. 119 00:07:32,020 --> 00:07:34,180 Nick, your book only scratched the surface. 120 00:07:34,500 --> 00:07:39,880 We have to meet face to face somewhere absolutely discreet. I think you'll like 121 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:40,880 what I have. 122 00:07:40,980 --> 00:07:41,980 Where and when? 123 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:44,720 In the beginning, it was next to nothing. 124 00:07:45,340 --> 00:07:48,540 Two men were arrested for hacking phones in 2006. 125 00:07:48,980 --> 00:07:55,540 A private investigator, Glenn Mulcair. The sentences 126 00:07:55,540 --> 00:07:58,780 they received were short. The attention they got limited. 127 00:07:58,980 --> 00:07:59,980 But the crime was unusual. 128 00:08:00,900 --> 00:08:05,380 They had discovered they could access other people's voicemail messages. 129 00:08:05,740 --> 00:08:10,560 And they spent months eavesdropping on three of Prince William's staff at 130 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:11,560 Clarence House. 131 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,660 How? They didn't say. 132 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:14,920 Why? 133 00:08:15,310 --> 00:08:17,950 for the discovery of private information. 134 00:08:19,950 --> 00:08:22,750 It was the start of the next six years of my life. 135 00:08:37,190 --> 00:08:42,570 To be clear, I've never told anyone who Mr. Apollo is, so some guesses have been 136 00:08:42,570 --> 00:08:43,570 made. 137 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:46,960 Bye again. 138 00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:59,780 No, sorry, it's not you. 139 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,260 Come on. 140 00:09:12,860 --> 00:09:15,060 Hi. You coming in or... 141 00:09:25,719 --> 00:09:27,060 Nice. Choice of room. 142 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,960 Just to check, is the Guardian paying? Because if so, I'd implore you to stay 143 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:32,960 away from that minibar. 144 00:09:33,660 --> 00:09:37,880 Mulcair, in the trial, he said he'd hacked other... Five non -royals. I 145 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:38,559 remember, yes. 146 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:43,700 Um, L. McPherson, Sky Andrew, Max Clifford. 147 00:09:44,820 --> 00:09:45,820 He's a liar. 148 00:09:46,780 --> 00:09:47,780 Kuttner's a liar. 149 00:09:47,820 --> 00:09:49,960 And one of the five is suing them. 150 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,000 Which one? 151 00:09:54,220 --> 00:09:56,100 That five is just the tip of the iceberg. 152 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,240 Hacking phones at the news of the world has been endemic. 153 00:10:02,100 --> 00:10:03,100 Endemic? 154 00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:07,520 They pick up their leads by intercepting voicemails. 155 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:13,020 And only then do they get photographs and quotes so as to lay a false trail, 156 00:10:13,020 --> 00:10:14,980 pretend they found the story through legitimate means. 157 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:16,520 They've hacked thousands. 158 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:18,760 Yeah. 159 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:20,200 Dial a number. 160 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:22,640 Someone who's likely to not answer. 161 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:31,300 This is Alan Rusbridger. 162 00:10:31,860 --> 00:10:32,900 That's your phone, my friend. 163 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:34,380 The editor of The Guardian. 164 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,000 Press 9. 165 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:40,920 Please enter your four -digit PIN. Now enter 1, 2, 3, 4. 166 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:42,200 That's the factory setting. 167 00:10:43,860 --> 00:10:47,600 Welcome to your voicemail. You have one new message. 168 00:10:48,100 --> 00:10:49,380 Alan, it's Mummy. 169 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,540 I'm just calling about Jill Wyatt. She won Best Sponge again, and I'm sure she 170 00:10:53,540 --> 00:10:54,540 changed it. I don't want to hear this. 171 00:10:55,700 --> 00:10:56,700 It's that easy. 172 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,800 Doesn't even need a Glenn Mulcair most of the time. 173 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:01,420 You're saying this is widespread. 174 00:11:02,300 --> 00:11:07,260 Glenn's main job was that when it got tricky, unlike with your Alan, was to 175 00:11:07,260 --> 00:11:11,200 the mobile phone companies into resetting the celebrity's PIN code to 176 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,300 original factory setting. 177 00:11:12,580 --> 00:11:13,580 One, two, three, four. 178 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:16,879 It's Alan. 179 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,600 Please. Who is this? 180 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:19,840 Hi, yeah, it's Nick. 181 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,740 Listen, change the voicemail settings on your phone. 182 00:11:23,020 --> 00:11:24,020 And how do I do that? 183 00:11:24,420 --> 00:11:25,860 Ask a young person. I've got to go. Bye. 184 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:29,100 Who is suing? 185 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,740 The person who is, is currently trying to get Scotland Yard to hand over 186 00:11:34,740 --> 00:11:38,700 evidence they collected and did nothing with when they arrested Mulcair. 187 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:44,700 It's evidence that could burn, fuck and destroy everything. 188 00:11:45,180 --> 00:11:46,180 Twice over. 189 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,840 You won't tell me which one of the five it is, will you? 190 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,680 I will tell you, but you're missing two names. 191 00:11:55,780 --> 00:11:56,780 Gordon Taylor. 192 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:58,240 and Simon Hughes. 193 00:11:58,900 --> 00:12:00,040 Will you go on the record? 194 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:07,340 If you dig, it comes from you. I can... I can confirm things, 195 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:14,400 but... It's just another story of journos banging 196 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:15,400 badly. 197 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:16,560 You're not interested? 198 00:12:16,860 --> 00:12:20,080 It's interesting, but... You should talk to someone else. 199 00:12:20,340 --> 00:12:22,980 Do you realize I could lose my job just by talking to you? Don't worry, this 200 00:12:22,980 --> 00:12:26,340 conversation never happened. No, no, no, that's not my point, Nick. Think. 201 00:12:27,210 --> 00:12:28,490 Think who edited the paper. 202 00:12:30,170 --> 00:12:31,850 Think about where he sits now. 203 00:12:34,290 --> 00:12:36,530 You're talking about Andy Coulson. 204 00:12:38,590 --> 00:12:39,590 Stop him. 205 00:12:47,470 --> 00:12:48,730 Mind the gap. 206 00:12:49,230 --> 00:12:51,030 Stand clear of the doors, please. 207 00:12:51,230 --> 00:12:55,890 Andy Coulson, a rapid ascent journalist. From a local reporter to showbiz at the 208 00:12:55,890 --> 00:12:58,930 Sun, he was made editor of News of the World in 2003. 209 00:12:59,510 --> 00:13:03,970 Even after he resigned in 2007 over the original phone hacking case, it was seen 210 00:13:03,970 --> 00:13:07,270 as honourable. Him carrying the can for the one rogue reporter. 211 00:13:07,810 --> 00:13:09,250 Not me really, Gov. 212 00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:17,370 But if he is, if this is Indemnit, he's David Cameron's communications director. 213 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,960 For him to be involved in widespread criminality. 214 00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:25,600 Not a bad idea. 215 00:13:38,620 --> 00:13:39,620 I'm not late. 216 00:13:39,660 --> 00:13:41,580 It would be fine if you were to be a bit late. 217 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:42,820 You don't need to be worried. 218 00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:44,039 Are they ready? 219 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:45,040 They are ready. 220 00:13:45,060 --> 00:13:46,060 Kids! 221 00:13:46,740 --> 00:13:47,740 You okay? 222 00:13:49,050 --> 00:13:51,610 Kids! Ooh, you're anxious to go then. 223 00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:53,370 Sorry, how are you, etc? 224 00:13:53,810 --> 00:13:54,810 I'm fine, etc. 225 00:13:55,170 --> 00:13:56,049 You all right? 226 00:13:56,050 --> 00:13:57,050 Never better. 227 00:13:57,130 --> 00:13:59,270 Really? I heard you on the radio. 228 00:13:59,910 --> 00:14:01,790 That sort of performance helped sales. 229 00:14:02,030 --> 00:14:03,030 Oh, I would doubt it. 230 00:14:05,550 --> 00:14:10,810 I'm, um, I am worried about... I'm not going to reveal my child's name. 231 00:14:11,210 --> 00:14:13,530 Let's call him Beans. 232 00:14:13,770 --> 00:14:16,270 He comes home, locks himself in his room. 233 00:14:16,780 --> 00:14:19,820 I have tried to talk to him, but... Avoid all questions. 234 00:14:20,380 --> 00:14:22,300 So, do we bring the score? 235 00:14:25,340 --> 00:14:27,600 Let's get the details, make sure he wants the help. 236 00:14:27,860 --> 00:14:29,280 Oh, you sound like a journalist. 237 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,000 Let me try. 238 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:36,320 Let me try. 239 00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:54,840 Got a new recipe. 240 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,320 Okay, Dad. Stuffed tomato thing. 241 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:58,720 Yeah, no, it's good. 242 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,200 Call you when it's ready. It's Turkish. 243 00:15:00,580 --> 00:15:03,820 Yep. So, I met someone today. 244 00:15:05,180 --> 00:15:06,180 A source. 245 00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:08,920 He was pissed off with what Cutler said on the radio. 246 00:15:09,900 --> 00:15:15,140 Okay. Hacking was endemic, he said, at News of the World. And someone is now 247 00:15:15,140 --> 00:15:17,980 suing Scotland Yard for information on what was hacked. 248 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,540 Now, no, I know it's one of either Elm and Person. 249 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,840 Simon Hughes, Gordon Taylor, Sky Andrew or Max Clifford, but I don't know which 250 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,260 one. What do you think? 251 00:15:28,620 --> 00:15:29,620 Do I dig? 252 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,280 Trying to find out who it is. If I find them, we might get some evidence that 253 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:36,680 proves foul play was a bit more widespread. 254 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,320 Imagine what it does to Andy Coulson. He's about to have keys to 10 Downing 255 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,460 Street. Did Cameron even do a fit and proper person test on him? 256 00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:45,260 Did he even look into Coulson's past? 257 00:15:46,460 --> 00:15:47,460 That's a good angle. 258 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,320 But another tabloids behaving badly story. 259 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:52,800 I said the same thing. 260 00:15:53,420 --> 00:15:55,600 And who wants to kick a bee's nest? 261 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:57,560 Murdoch, you know. 262 00:15:58,360 --> 00:15:59,760 This sauce. 263 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,040 Has he got under your skin? 264 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,360 No, I just wanted to talk it out with someone. 265 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:06,840 You. 266 00:16:07,260 --> 00:16:11,180 Oh, always grateful to be your sounding board. 267 00:16:11,780 --> 00:16:12,780 Go home, Alan. 268 00:16:14,060 --> 00:16:15,480 Who says I'm in the office? 269 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,040 We'll always have Brussels. 270 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:18,240 Bye. 271 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:32,800 It's creepy when you do that. 272 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:34,440 Stare at me like that. 273 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,160 How are you? 274 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,200 Why are you asking? 275 00:16:38,860 --> 00:16:42,200 If there ever is anything you need to discuss... Yes, Dad, I know. 276 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,800 I never much liked school. 277 00:17:08,099 --> 00:17:09,099 Not being bullied. 278 00:17:09,220 --> 00:17:10,780 I always saw school as a necessity. 279 00:17:11,099 --> 00:17:13,560 Why does everyone always think I'm being bullied? Not a virtue. 280 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:18,079 There was a guy who used to hit us. 281 00:17:20,300 --> 00:17:21,300 Another kid? 282 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:22,960 Actually, a teacher. 283 00:17:24,420 --> 00:17:29,200 He used to... God, he used to really scare me. I never used to do well. 284 00:17:32,179 --> 00:17:35,180 Well, I never used to do well with fear, but also the thing I remember most 285 00:17:35,180 --> 00:17:36,180 clearly. 286 00:17:37,020 --> 00:17:38,020 Rage. 287 00:17:42,780 --> 00:17:43,960 I heard you on the radio. 288 00:17:45,540 --> 00:17:47,240 I listen to the Today programme. 289 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,980 Mum makes us listen to or read everything you do. 290 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,520 You have an impressive dad. 291 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,600 And she says that, like, he may be a total dick, but he's impressive. 292 00:18:04,110 --> 00:18:05,450 You know the story of the dung beetle. 293 00:18:06,190 --> 00:18:07,190 Oh, God. 294 00:18:07,610 --> 00:18:08,569 Really, again? 295 00:18:08,570 --> 00:18:11,070 If you want to fly free... First you have to eat a lot of shit. 296 00:18:11,790 --> 00:18:16,050 Sometimes you have to ignore bullies. Not being bullies. Sometimes you have to 297 00:18:16,050 --> 00:18:19,630 puncture them. I'm not that. There's always a way to... There's always a 298 00:18:19,630 --> 00:18:25,170 when the wanker, when they suddenly seem vulnerable, when they are, you have to 299 00:18:25,170 --> 00:18:28,990 clamp your pincers onto them as hard as possible. Do not let go. 300 00:18:37,380 --> 00:18:38,780 Tomatoes in the oven. Very intense. 301 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,000 They're Turkish. 302 00:18:41,220 --> 00:18:42,360 Thank you very much. 303 00:18:48,860 --> 00:18:53,300 You stupid child. 304 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,260 You stupid disappointment. 305 00:19:04,140 --> 00:19:07,500 It won't surprise you to know we didn't get the right to use their mouth head. 306 00:19:09,620 --> 00:19:10,620 Or this one. 307 00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:24,620 Hi, it's Nick Davies. 308 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,220 You still have that contact at Scotland Yard? 309 00:19:27,820 --> 00:19:28,820 No, sorry, mate. 310 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,060 Really cannot begin a ball without one. 311 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:35,150 You know how that is. But Andy Coulson will soon be sitting in Downing Street. 312 00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:37,890 Yeah, and Murdoch's already sitting on Downing Street. 313 00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:43,130 Yes, I appreciate that. I understand. If I could get some evidence of this... 314 00:19:43,130 --> 00:19:44,170 No. No. 315 00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:46,630 No. All right, thanks. Bye. 316 00:19:51,890 --> 00:19:55,870 Oh, hi. Thanks for coming back. Do you have the number for name redacted? 317 00:19:56,490 --> 00:19:57,490 Yeah. 318 00:19:59,350 --> 00:20:00,350 Okay, great. 319 00:20:00,410 --> 00:20:01,410 Zero. 320 00:20:02,060 --> 00:20:08,640 7 -7 -0 -0 -9 -0 -0 -9 -5 -4. 321 00:20:09,580 --> 00:20:10,920 Got that. Thank you. 322 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:16,080 Hi, I'm wondering whether I could speak to whoever represents Elle McPherson. 323 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,720 No, no, I'm not a fan. No, I'm wondering whether she's currently suing the News 324 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:23,720 of the World. 325 00:20:23,980 --> 00:20:24,980 Is that Max? 326 00:20:25,700 --> 00:20:29,260 Hi, it's Nick Davies. We met at the Orwell Prize. 327 00:20:30,540 --> 00:20:31,800 I'm actually after a bit of insight. 328 00:20:33,140 --> 00:20:34,380 Well, no, give me a chance. 329 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,200 Detective Buzz Aldrin? 330 00:20:58,880 --> 00:20:59,880 Not his real name. 331 00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:02,200 My name is Nick Davis. I'm a Guardian journalist. 332 00:21:02,420 --> 00:21:04,900 I believe you were looking into the Clive Goodman case. I'm very busy, Mr. 333 00:21:04,980 --> 00:21:08,000 Davis. I followed your work, Buzz. I know how principled you are. I think you 334 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,600 know that what is happening here is acutely in the public interest. And if 335 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,500 all dealt with in behind -stairs deals, it'll help no one. I can't talk to 336 00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:16,540 journalists. Don't have to talk. 337 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,540 All I need to know is which of the five non -royal names in the Clive Goodman 338 00:21:20,540 --> 00:21:21,720 case is now suing the paper. 339 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,240 Cough. 340 00:21:23,420 --> 00:21:25,940 That's all I ask. Cough when I hit the right name. You are very, very 341 00:21:25,940 --> 00:21:29,320 persistent. Because what I understand is that those five names represent... 342 00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:32,650 Thousands, thousands of people who've had their privacy stolen by this 343 00:21:32,650 --> 00:21:33,790 newspaper. Please. 344 00:21:35,290 --> 00:21:36,290 L. McPherson. 345 00:21:37,070 --> 00:21:38,070 Simon Hughes. 346 00:21:39,450 --> 00:21:40,450 Gordon Taylor. 347 00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:43,630 Thank you. 348 00:21:44,730 --> 00:21:45,750 You did the right thing. 349 00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:06,840 Sorry, excuse me. Charlotte Harris, Nick Davis of The Guardian. I believe you 350 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,480 represent Gordon Taylor. I'm June Court. 351 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,340 I understand that he's suing News of the World for breach of privacy. Mr. Davis, 352 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,380 whether or not Mr. Taylor is my client, I have no interest in talking to any 353 00:22:15,380 --> 00:22:16,299 press. Sorry. 354 00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:21,600 These so -called journalists bring our whole industry into disrepute. I'm very 355 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:22,600 persistent. 356 00:22:23,660 --> 00:22:27,440 Well, can you tell me then about John Hewison? 357 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,420 He's also a claimant, is he not? 358 00:22:30,220 --> 00:22:34,320 And the interesting thing is, if you ask the public who those two are, they 359 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,900 might know Taylor. They wouldn't know Hewson because he's a lawyer, like you. 360 00:22:38,620 --> 00:22:42,440 He's entrusted with the secrets of others, in the secrets of sports stars, 361 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,720 his case, which makes him interesting to the news of the world. 362 00:22:46,580 --> 00:22:51,520 This is a news operation which is trying to undermine the confidentiality that 363 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:57,180 crucially underlies your profession. If you want to fight it, well, you're a 364 00:22:57,180 --> 00:22:58,180 tiger, but they're lions. 365 00:22:58,810 --> 00:22:59,890 The Guardian's a lion, too. 366 00:23:01,050 --> 00:23:03,170 What if I'm neither a lion nor a tiger? 367 00:23:04,030 --> 00:23:06,150 What if I am a walrus? 368 00:23:07,490 --> 00:23:08,790 Walruses can be fierce. 369 00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:12,750 And what if you're a... See, I'm trying to think of an annoying animal. 370 00:23:12,990 --> 00:23:13,990 Is Mr. Taylor settled? 371 00:23:14,650 --> 00:23:17,070 What evidence do you have? Are there other claimants? 372 00:23:17,370 --> 00:23:20,010 I'm sure you must be looking to engage more clients. 373 00:23:20,570 --> 00:23:24,490 Privacy cases like this can sometimes... What did Max Mosley get? 374 00:23:24,890 --> 00:23:25,890 £60 ,000. 375 00:23:26,410 --> 00:23:29,630 And costs. Line enough up. You could have a class action suit worth a lot of 376 00:23:29,630 --> 00:23:31,430 money. You were doing well. 377 00:23:31,810 --> 00:23:32,649 Reasonably well. 378 00:23:32,650 --> 00:23:34,010 Until you bought money into it. 379 00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:40,910 I can't talk to you about specific cases, but I can tell you... I can tell 380 00:23:40,910 --> 00:23:42,450 that there is so much more to come. 381 00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:56,140 Yep. You've got the name. 382 00:23:56,980 --> 00:23:58,660 Mr. Apollo, you're back. 383 00:23:59,580 --> 00:24:00,580 Are you watching me? 384 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,240 I take it you're still interested in this case, then? 385 00:24:09,020 --> 00:24:11,200 Deere is in the fireplace, the lion of the light. 386 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,220 What the fuck are you doing? 387 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:18,220 Sorry, I had a tendency to make jokes. I was trying to be a Russian spy. 388 00:24:19,740 --> 00:24:22,040 I could be spotted at any moment. Do you know the risks? 389 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,320 I do, sorry. 390 00:24:25,290 --> 00:24:26,610 So you found the lawyer? 391 00:24:27,570 --> 00:24:30,190 This is some kind of a test. Do I get a prize at the end of it? 392 00:24:30,750 --> 00:24:32,790 Do you know how much they're settling for? No. 393 00:24:34,550 --> 00:24:39,970 £400 ,000 in damages, another £300 ,000 in legal expenses, and their associates 394 00:24:39,970 --> 00:24:43,370 are getting £140 ,000 in damages, plus they're legal. 395 00:24:43,690 --> 00:24:46,430 The whole package comes in at just over a million pounds. 396 00:24:47,250 --> 00:24:50,090 Now, that's a lot, even for News International to stomach. 397 00:24:51,030 --> 00:24:52,030 But... 398 00:24:53,159 --> 00:24:58,360 Max Mosley, with their cute hymn of being a Nazi at an orgy, all he got was 399 00:24:58,360 --> 00:24:59,700 ,000 pounds, yes. 400 00:25:00,420 --> 00:25:01,420 Now you're getting it. 401 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,420 Look, I need... I need paperwork or audio recordings, some sort of hard 402 00:25:08,420 --> 00:25:09,420 evidence. 403 00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:12,420 I don't even have to publish it. I just need to be able to show the Guardian. 404 00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:16,200 The preliminary hearings in 2007, the public record. That's not enough. 405 00:25:18,940 --> 00:25:19,940 Right. 406 00:25:28,110 --> 00:25:31,630 You work it out. Can I use it? Nope. I need to be able to use it. 407 00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:33,449 Summarize it? 408 00:25:33,450 --> 00:25:34,790 Yes. Show it to your editor? 409 00:25:34,990 --> 00:25:36,470 Yes. Quote from it? 410 00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:37,870 No. 411 00:25:38,150 --> 00:25:39,150 Can I have your number? 412 00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:42,030 Be careful, Nick. 413 00:25:43,950 --> 00:25:44,950 This could get nasty. 414 00:26:01,930 --> 00:26:05,070 I have a piece on MPs' expenses I want you to have a look at. Okay. 415 00:26:05,270 --> 00:26:06,270 Want some gingerbread? 416 00:26:06,450 --> 00:26:08,810 My mother made it, it's not very good. I have a little. 417 00:26:09,970 --> 00:26:11,570 How long did that take you to get? 418 00:26:11,790 --> 00:26:12,749 Maybe too long. 419 00:26:12,750 --> 00:26:13,770 And you've never mentioned it? 420 00:26:15,870 --> 00:26:18,370 They're paying up millions to cover this up. This is a story. 421 00:26:20,270 --> 00:26:24,350 Nick, newspapers reporting on newspapers... But the editor of that 422 00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:25,350 about to enter government. 423 00:26:26,210 --> 00:26:29,830 If Andy Coulson was completed in hacking phones as an editor... 424 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,880 Imagine what it might do to enemies of the government. 425 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,000 Show me what you have. 426 00:26:35,940 --> 00:26:36,940 I can choke. 427 00:26:38,620 --> 00:26:39,920 Print out of an email. 428 00:26:40,700 --> 00:26:45,580 Ross Hindley at News of the World to shadowmen at yahoo .co .uk. It's Glenn 429 00:26:45,580 --> 00:26:46,439 Mulcair's email. 430 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:47,760 His email was shadowmen. 431 00:26:47,980 --> 00:26:49,880 It says transcript for Neville. 432 00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:52,780 Wednesday, 29th of June, 2005. 433 00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:54,100 I can read. 434 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:58,080 And Neville is? Neville Felbeck, chief reporter at News of the World. 435 00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:02,880 There are transcripts of 35 voicemail messages which have been left on the 436 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,320 phones of Gordon Taylor and a colleague. It wasn't just Clive Goodman. 437 00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:08,360 And then there's this. 438 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,300 Greg Miskew, assistant editor. 439 00:27:12,260 --> 00:27:16,500 Approving a payment of £7 ,000, two -mile care, for a story on Gordon 440 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,580 And the police have access to all of this and more. 441 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:21,600 Can we use this? 442 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:22,920 No. 443 00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:26,560 Can we get your Mr Apollo to speak on the record? 444 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,380 How long have we known each other? 445 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:30,720 I've no idea. 446 00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:34,520 I had no interest in trying to work that out. It'll make me feel old. Nearly 30 447 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:35,520 years. 448 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:36,900 This is it, Alan. 449 00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:40,680 There is an industry making huge profits from evading people's private lives, 450 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,440 and Rupert Murdoch's bullying tabloids have explicitly encouraged it and are 451 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:45,440 buying it. 452 00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:51,300 This matter. 453 00:28:00,690 --> 00:28:01,950 Good. Okay. 454 00:28:05,390 --> 00:28:07,530 I'll let you know when I've got something. 455 00:28:08,670 --> 00:28:09,670 Thanks, Adam. 456 00:28:11,330 --> 00:28:15,510 You may think you lead a private life, but the Guardian has uncovered evidence 457 00:28:15,510 --> 00:28:16,730 to suggest otherwise. 458 00:28:17,350 --> 00:28:22,950 This strange story began in 2006 with the arrest of two men, the News of the 459 00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:27,110 World royal editor Clive Goodman and a private investigator, Glenn Mulcair. 460 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,320 The men pled guilty to phone hacking charges and served prison sentences. 461 00:28:31,780 --> 00:28:35,780 Following an investigation, the paper told the world that hacking was the work 462 00:28:35,780 --> 00:28:36,940 of one rogue reporter. 463 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,340 The story should have ended there, but it didn't. 464 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,000 From the beginning on, newspapers have prospered for one reason. 465 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,060 Giving readers the news they want. 466 00:29:03,140 --> 00:29:04,140 Shit, 467 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,440 shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit. 468 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,200 Keep it simple. 469 00:29:13,919 --> 00:29:18,240 Rupert Murdoch's News Group newspapers had paid out more than £1 million to 470 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,600 settle legal cases that threatened to reveal evidence of his journalist's 471 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,820 repeated involvement in the use of criminal methods to get stories. 472 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,500 Payments secured secrecy over out -of -court settlements in three cases that 473 00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:32,980 threatened to expose evidence of Murdoch journalists using private 474 00:29:32,980 --> 00:29:38,140 investigators. To illegally hack into the mobile phone messages of numerous 475 00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:39,140 public figures. 476 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:44,160 Cabinet ministers, MPs, actors and sports stars were all targets of private 477 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,840 investigators. Are you sure we can safely list all those groups? 478 00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:50,820 We already have evidence of actors, Elmick Thurston, sports stars, Sky 479 00:29:50,860 --> 00:29:54,820 MPs then? I have an invoice recording a payment to a private investigator 480 00:29:54,820 --> 00:29:57,720 showing John Prescott had been targeted. It's likely hacking. 481 00:29:57,940 --> 00:30:00,620 This article has no named sources, no evidence on the record. 482 00:30:00,940 --> 00:30:02,440 Anna thinks we have enough. I do too. 483 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,200 And we haven't got right of reply. 484 00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:08,000 It's a declaration of bloody war. Murdoch and Brooks, they have nuclear 485 00:30:08,220 --> 00:30:11,680 Right now they do, but we can neuter their nuclear weapons with this. If we 486 00:30:11,860 --> 00:30:15,780 Fleet Street will fall in behind us, the police soon after. And they have, when 487 00:30:15,780 --> 00:30:19,080 they find the information they already have. Information they don't know they 488 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,600 have. The Met we're talking about. 489 00:30:21,780 --> 00:30:24,080 Look, once we public, they'll be forced to act. 490 00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:25,860 Can we name Coulson? 491 00:30:26,980 --> 00:30:28,540 Now you're worried I haven't gone far enough. 492 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,680 That makes it more in the public interest if we can name him. 493 00:30:32,060 --> 00:30:36,220 I did ring Conservative HQ right to reply, Jill. I asked about the Gordon 494 00:30:36,220 --> 00:30:39,640 settlement. His office replied it didn't ring any bells. There'd be nothing that 495 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,400 directly linked them. I agree. 496 00:30:41,900 --> 00:30:48,820 But we can say that he was the editor in place when journalists for whom he 497 00:30:48,820 --> 00:30:50,780 was responsible, etc., etc., etc. That's good. 498 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:53,320 That's good. 499 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:57,840 Yes? 500 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,040 I'm uneasy. 501 00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:01,420 But if you're sure... 502 00:31:05,070 --> 00:31:06,070 I am. 503 00:31:11,250 --> 00:31:12,250 It reads well. 504 00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:20,190 Okay. 505 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,200 At half past five in the afternoon on Wednesday, 8th July 2009, we posted my 506 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,620 news story on the Guardian website. 507 00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:37,620 As it ran, the Guardian news desk asked a reporter, Caroline Davies, to call 508 00:31:37,620 --> 00:31:40,760 John Prescott, ex -deputy prime minister, to get a quote. 509 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,300 I told him the gist of the story and he said, Fucking hell! 510 00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:49,420 You'd have thought the police in the committing of a criminal offence, as 511 00:31:49,420 --> 00:31:52,460 clearly it is against anyone, and particularly you'd have thought a 512 00:31:52,460 --> 00:31:55,580 member. They would have come and told me about it, and I wouldn't have asked 513 00:31:55,580 --> 00:31:59,940 them, what are you going to do about it? The press got ruled, but the house fell 514 00:31:59,940 --> 00:32:00,940 silent. 515 00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:03,460 Anyone? 516 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:07,320 Anyone? 517 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:17,680 And Fleet Street, well... Fleet Street 518 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,720 essentially... Did their best to ignore the story. Ask any journalist what a 519 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,380 great story depends on. They'll say the same thing. 520 00:32:26,540 --> 00:32:27,600 A new angle. 521 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:29,980 One at least journalists can get behind. 522 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,280 We are reliant on our own profession to follow up on stories so they have 523 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,940 impact. To make a story newsworthy requires multiple news outlets. 524 00:32:38,220 --> 00:32:40,400 But on this one, crickets. 525 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,640 My company couldn't have settled the legal action at the Guardian Climbs if 526 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,200 had done out of none about it. 527 00:32:47,690 --> 00:32:51,550 I tried to get this out as wide as possible. I talked on radio stations, TV 528 00:32:51,550 --> 00:32:55,510 shows. I took constant calls from agents of public figures asking, am I on that 529 00:32:55,510 --> 00:32:57,230 list? I slept about four hours. 530 00:32:57,490 --> 00:33:01,950 And then at five in the afternoon, I was surprised to hear that John Yates, 531 00:33:02,150 --> 00:33:06,250 assistant commissioner at Scotland Yard, was preparing to make a statement. 532 00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:07,950 Good afternoon. 533 00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:12,670 I was not involved in the original case and clearly come at this with an 534 00:33:12,670 --> 00:33:13,670 independent mind. 535 00:33:13,850 --> 00:33:18,130 In my opinion, what I've seen is a most careful investigation, by very 536 00:33:18,130 --> 00:33:19,770 experienced detectives. 537 00:33:20,330 --> 00:33:24,830 He proceeded to gently demolish our work. We suggested there were thousands 538 00:33:24,830 --> 00:33:29,530 victims. Their potential targets may have run into hundreds of people, but 539 00:33:29,530 --> 00:33:33,730 inquiry showed that they only used the tactic against a far smaller number of 540 00:33:33,730 --> 00:33:38,010 individuals. And since no additional evidence has come to light, I can see no 541 00:33:38,010 --> 00:33:39,470 reason to reopen the inquiry. 542 00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:41,810 Thank you. That's all for today. 543 00:33:55,030 --> 00:34:02,030 That was Assistant 544 00:34:02,030 --> 00:34:04,910 Commissioner John Yates speaking in response to... 545 00:34:04,910 --> 00:34:09,530 What is that? 546 00:34:10,989 --> 00:34:12,489 The police haven't backed out. 547 00:34:12,770 --> 00:34:15,770 And Kistana's conducting a review. 548 00:34:16,050 --> 00:34:19,730 He was director of public prosecutions then. But he doesn't consider there was 549 00:34:19,730 --> 00:34:24,230 anything inappropriate in the prosecutions undertaken in this case. We 550 00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:28,909 squashed. We need to speak to your Mr. Apollo. We need to get him on the 551 00:34:29,130 --> 00:34:33,370 He... He can contact me. I can't contact him. Nick. 552 00:34:35,889 --> 00:34:39,110 Our colleagues upstairs are gravely concerned. 553 00:34:39,870 --> 00:34:44,750 Is it possible you were set up? No, this is right. I've used no named sources, 554 00:34:44,949 --> 00:34:47,610 no quotes from documents we should never have published. 555 00:34:49,230 --> 00:34:53,770 And Murdoch has set his attack dogs on us in the Commons. They're briefing that 556 00:34:53,770 --> 00:34:55,070 we can't back up our story. 557 00:34:55,489 --> 00:34:58,750 And now the CMS Select Committee want to see us urgently. 558 00:34:59,910 --> 00:35:01,390 That doesn't sound great. 559 00:35:02,090 --> 00:35:06,210 They want to barbecue you, Nick. And Johnny Yates has given them permission. 560 00:35:08,780 --> 00:35:13,620 I'm sorry. I've read the runes wrong here. 561 00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:17,260 Guardian are putting together a statement. 562 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:18,480 What kind of statement? 563 00:35:18,900 --> 00:35:20,400 I'll know when I see it. 564 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,200 I feel like I'm having a heart attack. 565 00:35:25,900 --> 00:35:27,700 Why is everybody doing this? 566 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:58,060 My mother was a strong character, intelligent, forceful, imaginative, 567 00:35:58,260 --> 00:36:03,240 as she believed, in domestic drudgery. She had a furious temper. 568 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,300 This wasn't the 1950s toxic ideal of spare the rod and spoil the child. This 569 00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:09,560 mad beatings. 570 00:36:09,900 --> 00:36:15,160 She came after us with a black -eyed fury, armed with whatever weapon she had 571 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,820 hand, a dog lead, a slipper, a riding crop, a rope. 572 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,620 Are you ready to say you're sorry? 573 00:36:25,380 --> 00:36:26,380 No. 574 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,960 I've been working as a journalist for a couple of decades thinking I was 575 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,420 interested in criminal justice and social problems when I saw that I was 576 00:36:40,420 --> 00:36:43,160 drawn to stories again and again with the same theme. 577 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,760 A deep -seated urge to hit back at anybody at all. 578 00:36:51,180 --> 00:36:54,160 Who takes power and abuses it. Stupid child. 579 00:37:40,940 --> 00:37:41,960 So I tried hitting him back. 580 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:43,600 Why? 581 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:46,280 Seizing rage. 582 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:48,820 I thought he looked vulnerable. 583 00:37:50,300 --> 00:37:51,300 Oh. 584 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:54,560 Didn't work. 585 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:55,960 No. 586 00:37:57,900 --> 00:37:58,920 He looked terrible. 587 00:38:02,380 --> 00:38:03,460 What happened to you? 588 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:05,100 You're asking me or him? 589 00:38:07,580 --> 00:38:10,910 Okay, so I need to... To take you to your mum's tonight. 590 00:38:11,230 --> 00:38:13,970 Um, she says she'd call if you are. 591 00:38:14,290 --> 00:38:15,430 Yeah, sure, I don't mind. 592 00:38:25,310 --> 00:38:29,410 It's been a day of statements and counter -statements in the phone hacking 593 00:38:29,410 --> 00:38:34,570 affair, with News International angrily refuting all the allegations made by the 594 00:38:34,570 --> 00:38:38,920 Guardian. With the editor and the reporter due to appear at the Media 595 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,720 Committee, certain publications are claiming a leftist agenda against the 596 00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:48,020 of the World by The Guardian, and calling for legal action to be taken 597 00:38:48,020 --> 00:38:52,820 the organisation if they can't back up the furious claims made against 598 00:38:52,820 --> 00:38:53,820 paper. 599 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:55,960 Bye. 600 00:39:05,290 --> 00:39:06,290 See you, kids. Bye, kids. 601 00:39:07,330 --> 00:39:09,930 Oh, come on. I'm fine, Mum. I'm fine. 602 00:39:10,150 --> 00:39:11,150 It's my fault. 603 00:39:11,690 --> 00:39:12,830 Sorry, bad advice. 604 00:39:14,490 --> 00:39:15,490 Coffee? 605 00:39:15,970 --> 00:39:16,970 Oh. 606 00:39:17,810 --> 00:39:19,530 Thanks for sussing in Monday. I'm sorry. 607 00:39:20,210 --> 00:39:22,310 Nick. Yeah. Have you eaten? 608 00:39:22,890 --> 00:39:24,790 When? In the last day. 609 00:39:25,350 --> 00:39:30,890 I'm just a bit tired. I'm not really at my best. I need to think and... 610 00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:37,100 House of Commons Select Committee want to see us tomorrow. 611 00:39:37,780 --> 00:39:40,980 And the Guardian have got this message that their PR have written that is... 612 00:39:40,980 --> 00:39:43,700 that is just... All right. Okay. 613 00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:46,720 You look worse than he does. 614 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,640 Nice. I didn't tell him to fight back. 615 00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:50,940 I can't do this myself. 616 00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:52,180 Come on. Eat someone. 617 00:39:52,300 --> 00:39:53,300 Eat. 618 00:39:53,940 --> 00:39:54,940 All right. 619 00:39:56,340 --> 00:39:57,340 Come on. 620 00:39:58,500 --> 00:39:59,660 Sit down. 621 00:40:00,020 --> 00:40:01,020 Sit down. 622 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:02,120 People okay? 623 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:10,860 How do I make it better? 624 00:40:11,660 --> 00:40:14,160 Well, we will talk to the school. 625 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,380 You think they'll do better? 626 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:18,560 Good to go. 627 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,980 Things have changed, you know. Teachers, parents, they're not allowed to do. 628 00:40:27,140 --> 00:40:28,340 Systems, right? 629 00:40:30,180 --> 00:40:31,420 I thought about her. 630 00:40:32,860 --> 00:40:34,440 Earlier today, I was reading this. 631 00:40:36,740 --> 00:40:38,680 Paper magic over apologetics. 632 00:40:39,700 --> 00:40:43,500 PR nonsense. I thought about all the times I'd gone to her and apologised and 633 00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:47,440 all the times that I... And then my son gets a face like that. 634 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:51,880 OK. 635 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:55,700 I'm going to make the safe route. You're staying here tonight. 636 00:40:57,540 --> 00:40:58,980 And I'll just put this suit on. 637 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,820 to read that statement, a retraction at this time. 638 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,520 You're asking me to say I was wrong. 639 00:41:38,780 --> 00:41:43,640 If we can't get Mr Apollo on the record, then we need to make a retraction. 640 00:41:44,260 --> 00:41:46,540 You know getting him on the record is impossible. 641 00:41:48,060 --> 00:41:51,020 Then I'm afraid you'll have to make that statement to the select committee 642 00:41:51,020 --> 00:41:54,700 tomorrow. If you make me read it out, I won't come. 643 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,480 If you don't come... 644 00:42:30,830 --> 00:42:34,230 Carl Bernstein, one of the great reporters who exposed the Watergate 645 00:42:34,510 --> 00:42:41,070 said, I think all good reporting is the same thing. The best attainable version 646 00:42:41,070 --> 00:42:42,070 of the truth. 647 00:42:42,370 --> 00:42:45,770 The best attainable version of the truth. 648 00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:48,370 The best attainable. So no matter what you've got... 649 00:43:11,210 --> 00:43:15,070 Morning. Hi. Does this printer scanner thing still work? 650 00:43:15,710 --> 00:43:17,130 Yeah, that one does. 651 00:43:17,470 --> 00:43:21,270 Coffee? And do you have some black paper and some glue and some scissors? 652 00:43:21,850 --> 00:43:23,850 Oh, you're making me a collage, Nick. 653 00:43:24,110 --> 00:43:26,450 Might need the kid to be quite late for school. 654 00:43:27,090 --> 00:43:28,090 Right. Why? 655 00:43:30,410 --> 00:43:36,870 Okay, so these are emails written to a journalist, that's Neville, with 656 00:43:36,870 --> 00:43:38,250 transcriptions of... 657 00:43:38,650 --> 00:43:40,490 A man called Gordon Taylor's voicemail messages. 658 00:43:40,690 --> 00:43:43,170 What I need you to do is to block out all the sections which are clearly 659 00:43:43,170 --> 00:43:46,130 transcribed from those voicemails. Leave everything else visible. 660 00:43:46,370 --> 00:43:48,190 You should be able to tell which bits are which, but if there ain't doubts, 661 00:43:48,190 --> 00:43:52,150 ask. May I ask, why aren't you doing this at the Guardian with some sort of 662 00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:53,150 vague professionalism? 663 00:43:53,250 --> 00:43:54,250 Alan can't know. 664 00:43:55,050 --> 00:43:56,190 Your editor can't know. 665 00:43:57,550 --> 00:43:58,970 Because I can't have him tell anyone else. 666 00:43:59,450 --> 00:44:01,070 Oh, yeah. That man is gossip. 667 00:44:01,470 --> 00:44:04,190 If Fleet Street can't know about this, as far as they know, I'm walking naked 668 00:44:04,190 --> 00:44:05,210 into that committee room. 669 00:44:05,450 --> 00:44:07,830 I was just trying to protect my editor and my newspaper. 670 00:44:08,589 --> 00:44:09,589 And you. 671 00:44:11,050 --> 00:44:13,410 What sort of danger are you putting yourself in here? 672 00:44:46,700 --> 00:44:48,080 Nick. How are you, Alan? 673 00:44:49,060 --> 00:44:50,940 I'm fine. A bit tired. 674 00:44:51,180 --> 00:44:53,200 Something interrupted my sleep last night. 675 00:44:53,420 --> 00:44:54,520 I hate it when that happens. 676 00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:58,560 I hate all of this. 677 00:45:00,100 --> 00:45:01,500 Sorry if I've made your life difficult. 678 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:03,680 My life. 679 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:05,440 This is bigger than me. 680 00:45:07,060 --> 00:45:10,200 Could have brought down the whole Guardian newspaper with this one. 681 00:45:11,340 --> 00:45:12,380 What a way to go. 682 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,240 I mean, consider the glory. 683 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:22,540 I, Nick Davis, have destroyed, utterly destroyed, 684 00:45:22,780 --> 00:45:26,700 close to 200 years of journalistic endeavour. 685 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,560 You're an absolute god. 686 00:45:31,140 --> 00:45:33,680 God, I can't even think what you are. You're awful. 687 00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:37,500 You know what? 688 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,840 Peter Preston told me when I took over the editor's desk. 689 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:42,200 Mein Helder, that you knew? 690 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:44,360 Don't join the club. 691 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,320 He had to make adjustments to the paper after the move from Manchester, and he 692 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:54,360 didn't... He wouldn't be part of the media cabal. 693 00:45:54,940 --> 00:45:57,160 He liked being on the edge of Fleet Street. 694 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,040 He considered it part of our DNA. 695 00:46:01,620 --> 00:46:04,080 Last night in bed, I realised something. 696 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:06,320 What you've done... 697 00:46:06,590 --> 00:46:11,670 Bringing us here is in the line of great guardian coups. 698 00:46:13,010 --> 00:46:16,730 But I do want to keep the newspaper I've been entrusted with alive. 699 00:46:18,450 --> 00:46:19,830 Are you reading the statement? 700 00:46:20,330 --> 00:46:21,330 No. 701 00:46:22,690 --> 00:46:24,170 But I do have things to say. 702 00:46:27,590 --> 00:46:32,230 If you go too far, I will squeeze your leg and you will stop. 703 00:46:33,530 --> 00:46:35,150 I've got a paper to protect. 704 00:46:36,970 --> 00:46:39,710 And you, be sure to protect yourself. 705 00:46:41,870 --> 00:46:42,870 Tune hats on. 706 00:46:43,650 --> 00:46:45,230 Thank you for joining us, gentlemen. 707 00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:50,350 Now, we have a lot of questions, so I'll try to keep opening statements short. 708 00:46:50,610 --> 00:46:52,930 I'd like to keep this whole experience quite short, if I may. 709 00:46:54,670 --> 00:46:57,670 But I do have... There's a lot for me to say. 710 00:47:01,470 --> 00:47:05,650 I'd like to start by showing you, first of all, copies of an email.