0 00:00:02,143 --> 00:00:07,779 SER-VICIO.com 1 00:01:50,743 --> 00:01:52,679 This photo is taken in the studio, 2 00:01:52,779 --> 00:01:54,681 and you can see Michelangelo sitting 3 00:01:54,781 --> 00:01:57,851 here through this gray glass. 4 00:01:57,951 --> 00:01:59,119 And this is me. 5 00:01:59,185 --> 00:02:00,320 It's really funny because it looks 6 00:02:00,420 --> 00:02:03,490 as though I'm directing him. 7 00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:06,159 He was doing his first film in English. 8 00:02:06,259 --> 00:02:09,362 His English was not amazing, and he needed 9 00:02:09,462 --> 00:02:12,932 somebody to be his ears... 10 00:02:12,999 --> 00:02:14,467 his ears with the actors... 11 00:02:14,534 --> 00:02:23,109 to be able to tell him the effect of what they would do. 12 00:02:23,176 --> 00:02:25,712 In '66 I was 27. 13 00:02:25,812 --> 00:02:26,980 My first movie. 14 00:02:27,046 --> 00:02:32,051 It's an American movie, MGM, American budget. 15 00:02:32,152 --> 00:02:36,489 But the artistic mind behind it was this particularly 16 00:02:36,556 --> 00:02:39,559 European mind of. 17 00:02:39,659 --> 00:02:43,029 We were talking French usually, and he would explain to me 18 00:02:43,129 --> 00:02:45,565 often what it was that he wanted actors to do, 19 00:02:45,665 --> 00:02:49,369 but sometimes what he wanted the crew to do. 20 00:02:49,469 --> 00:02:52,405 He explained to me once why he was shooting in London. 21 00:02:52,505 --> 00:02:55,341 He said, OK, I had this story I wanted to do. 22 00:02:55,408 --> 00:02:58,178 The story happens to concern a photographer. 23 00:02:58,244 --> 00:03:01,881 So he had to analyze where would it be interesting to make 24 00:03:01,981 --> 00:03:03,750 a film about a photographer. 25 00:03:03,850 --> 00:03:05,151 He said, well, you could make it in Rome, 26 00:03:05,218 --> 00:03:07,921 but it's been done... much of it has been done. 27 00:03:08,021 --> 00:03:10,390 Seriously considered New York, but the attraction of London 28 00:03:10,490 --> 00:03:14,694 was obviously that it was Swinging London. 29 00:03:14,761 --> 00:03:19,098 There was a scene, there was a climate of excitement, 30 00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:23,503 and interest, and change, and new work. 31 00:03:33,413 --> 00:03:34,948 I got a phone call 32 00:03:35,048 --> 00:03:38,952 from someone who said they were at Harper's Bazaar in England. 33 00:03:39,052 --> 00:03:43,189 And Mr. Antonioni was in town and he'd 34 00:03:43,256 --> 00:03:46,125 like to watch me take pictures. 35 00:03:46,226 --> 00:03:48,361 And I thought this is a joke. 36 00:03:48,428 --> 00:03:52,298 I had seen all his movies, and at that time, 37 00:03:52,398 --> 00:03:54,367 Antonioni was god. 38 00:03:57,237 --> 00:04:02,375 And he came down and he stood right over here. 39 00:04:21,461 --> 00:04:24,230 In 1965 I started a book shop and art gallery 40 00:04:24,297 --> 00:04:28,401 with two friends of mine, Peter Asher who was part of Peter 41 00:04:28,468 --> 00:04:30,336 and Gordon, a rock and roll group, 42 00:04:30,436 --> 00:04:32,572 and my friend John Dunbar who was the art 43 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:34,907 critic for "The Scotsman." 44 00:04:45,818 --> 00:04:48,154 We found premises in Mason's Yard 45 00:04:48,254 --> 00:04:50,256 for the gallery and bookshop. 46 00:04:50,323 --> 00:04:56,195 Mason's Yard is a small piazza just off of Piccadilly. 47 00:04:56,296 --> 00:04:58,364 That was where the Scotch of St. James 48 00:04:58,464 --> 00:05:00,033 was located, which was at that point 49 00:05:00,133 --> 00:05:04,037 the sort of cool rock and roll aristocracy nightclub 50 00:05:04,137 --> 00:05:07,340 where The Stones, and The Beatles, and The Who, 51 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,544 and everybody used to meet. 52 00:05:11,644 --> 00:05:13,379 Nothing like modern discos. 53 00:05:13,479 --> 00:05:15,615 It only held 150 people. 54 00:05:15,682 --> 00:05:18,017 It was the size of a VIP bar in modern disco, 55 00:05:18,117 --> 00:05:19,852 and it was just a VIP bar. 56 00:05:19,952 --> 00:05:21,854 You were looked at through a keyhole. 57 00:05:21,954 --> 00:05:24,557 You had to be well-known, you had to be known to them. 58 00:05:24,657 --> 00:05:26,526 But I was in there one night and there 59 00:05:26,626 --> 00:05:30,630 was a little slim Italian man getting a lot of attention, 60 00:05:30,697 --> 00:05:31,964 and I didn't recognize him. 61 00:05:32,031 --> 00:05:32,999 I wondered who he was. 62 00:05:33,066 --> 00:05:34,334 He didn't look like a rock star. 63 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,402 And Kit Lambert said, well, that's Antonioni, 64 00:05:36,502 --> 00:05:37,570 the famous director. 65 00:05:37,670 --> 00:05:39,238 He's come to make a film in London, 66 00:05:39,339 --> 00:05:42,875 and he wants The Who to perform in it and smash their guitars. 67 00:05:42,975 --> 00:05:45,411 And I was very jealous, and I wanted my group, 68 00:05:45,511 --> 00:05:46,412 The Others to be in it. 69 00:05:46,512 --> 00:05:48,381 But I couldn't tell Kit that. 70 00:05:48,481 --> 00:05:50,583 So I wanted to go up and talk to him, and said Kit, Kit... 71 00:05:50,683 --> 00:05:51,751 no, no, no. 72 00:05:51,851 --> 00:05:53,219 He's... I'm... My group's doing the part. 73 00:05:53,319 --> 00:05:56,422 I'm going to see him tomorrow at the Savoy Hotel. 74 00:05:56,522 --> 00:05:58,558 So I told Kit don't be a pushover. 75 00:05:58,658 --> 00:06:00,693 I said demand 5,000 pounds or say 76 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,428 you want control of the edit. 77 00:06:02,528 --> 00:06:04,764 And I knew Antonioni would throw him out. 78 00:06:09,235 --> 00:06:12,872 One of the people who Antonioni knew in Britain 79 00:06:12,939 --> 00:06:16,843 when he came over here was Robert Fraser who brought over 80 00:06:16,909 --> 00:06:20,113 a lot of pop art from America... that Andy Warhol he showed, 81 00:06:20,213 --> 00:06:24,851 for instance, and British pop artists like Peter Blake, 82 00:06:24,917 --> 00:06:27,553 and Hamilton, and all of those people. 83 00:06:27,620 --> 00:06:31,057 At Fraser's place he first met Paul McCartney, for instance, 84 00:06:31,124 --> 00:06:33,626 who was a good friend of Robert's, as were 85 00:06:33,726 --> 00:06:36,929 the other Beatles and Stones. 86 00:06:37,029 --> 00:06:41,234 Antonioni and McCartney got on extremely well, 87 00:06:41,300 --> 00:06:44,971 and Paul invited Antonioni over to his house 88 00:06:45,071 --> 00:06:46,272 and showed him his home movies. 89 00:06:49,075 --> 00:06:53,646 Antonioni was the most exciting person to meet, 90 00:06:53,746 --> 00:06:57,150 because he had made "L'Avventura," 91 00:06:57,250 --> 00:07:02,655 and "L'Avventura" was the film that changed my mind complete, 92 00:07:02,755 --> 00:07:06,392 or actually introduced me to cinema. 93 00:07:06,459 --> 00:07:10,263 I remember him coming to my family house 94 00:07:10,329 --> 00:07:13,833 in Belgravia in London, which was a very sort 95 00:07:13,933 --> 00:07:17,637 of dead, dull place. 96 00:07:17,737 --> 00:07:21,741 I think he must have been brought there with 97 00:07:21,808 --> 00:07:25,111 probably because we were the only 98 00:07:25,178 --> 00:07:29,482 Bohemian family in Belgravia. 99 00:07:29,582 --> 00:07:32,485 So when he came, we were all very excited. 100 00:07:32,585 --> 00:07:36,456 We spoke Italian, and then became a friend of his... 101 00:07:36,522 --> 00:07:40,827 so did my brother... and we went about in London with him. 102 00:07:45,598 --> 00:07:51,103 I think he was very, very much taken by the excitement 103 00:07:51,170 --> 00:07:53,372 about London... that there was about London, 104 00:07:53,473 --> 00:07:55,208 and that was going on in London. 105 00:07:55,308 --> 00:08:01,714 And he's interested in fashion, in the clothes, in the customs, 106 00:08:01,814 --> 00:08:07,286 in the everything that was considered to be liberating. 107 00:08:12,325 --> 00:08:14,727 This was the first time that young people had 108 00:08:14,827 --> 00:08:17,530 any money, and they didn't have enough money, obviously, to buy 109 00:08:17,630 --> 00:08:21,000 cars or to buy houses or a mortgage or something, 110 00:08:21,067 --> 00:08:26,739 but they had enough money to buy records and clothes. 111 00:08:26,839 --> 00:08:28,908 And there were young people doing... 112 00:08:29,008 --> 00:08:30,810 starting little boutiques. 113 00:08:30,877 --> 00:08:34,247 And the two key ones for the London Underground, one 114 00:08:34,347 --> 00:08:37,083 was Michael Rainey's "Hung On You." 115 00:08:37,183 --> 00:08:40,419 "Granny Takes a Trip," which of course is 116 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,321 famously in the book address, 117 00:08:42,388 --> 00:08:44,223 which was used in "Blow-Up." 118 00:08:44,323 --> 00:08:48,194 Because they didn't just make clothes for young people. 119 00:08:48,261 --> 00:08:50,396 They also specialized in vintage clothes. 120 00:08:53,533 --> 00:08:56,035 It was color, bringing color, 121 00:08:56,102 --> 00:08:59,572 color to this foggy nation. 122 00:08:59,672 --> 00:09:05,545 The fashion photographers were doing that in a sense, 123 00:09:05,611 --> 00:09:08,114 and so it wasn't just superficial, 124 00:09:08,214 --> 00:09:11,918 it was also quite revolutionary in a way. 125 00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:19,859 As a specialist in the history of photography, 126 00:09:19,926 --> 00:09:24,130 as somebody who's passionately curious about the whole story 127 00:09:24,230 --> 00:09:31,137 of the London scene in the '60s, photography is the dominant 128 00:09:31,237 --> 00:09:34,240 thread for me, and has been a dominant thread through 129 00:09:34,307 --> 00:09:36,943 my investigation of "Blow-Up." 130 00:09:37,043 --> 00:09:41,781 I've always wanted to find out more... 131 00:09:41,881 --> 00:09:43,649 who were the influences, who made 132 00:09:43,749 --> 00:09:45,451 the pictures used in the film. 133 00:09:45,551 --> 00:09:49,722 And I was thrilled to know that the photographer who one 134 00:09:49,789 --> 00:09:53,326 sees in the opening credits from behind, 135 00:09:53,426 --> 00:09:55,261 it was David Montgomery. 136 00:10:02,835 --> 00:10:05,671 Some people called me up and said, 137 00:10:05,771 --> 00:10:11,177 Mr. Antonioni would like you to come down and photograph 138 00:10:11,277 --> 00:10:13,946 while the film's going on. 139 00:10:14,013 --> 00:10:17,683 Comes the big day and I take my assistant, 140 00:10:17,783 --> 00:10:21,687 and we go to Brixton Market. 141 00:10:21,787 --> 00:10:24,590 And all these big movie cameras around, 142 00:10:24,657 --> 00:10:29,795 and hustling, and facing this way, that way. 143 00:10:29,862 --> 00:10:34,967 One of the men says, OK, you set up your camera here, 144 00:10:35,034 --> 00:10:40,439 and Donyale Luna, who was the beautiful black model, 145 00:10:40,506 --> 00:10:43,542 was standing on top of a little hut. 146 00:10:46,379 --> 00:10:48,714 So I'm shooting and I'm shooting, 147 00:10:48,814 --> 00:10:53,452 and I stop because I've run out of film. 148 00:10:53,519 --> 00:10:55,955 We open up the camera and we're taking the film out, 149 00:10:56,022 --> 00:10:58,491 and all of a sudden they come running over 150 00:10:58,557 --> 00:11:00,326 and say, what are you doing? 151 00:11:00,393 --> 00:11:01,961 What are you doing? 152 00:11:02,028 --> 00:11:04,730 I said, I'm changing film. 153 00:11:04,830 --> 00:11:06,866 I've run out of film. 154 00:11:06,966 --> 00:11:09,068 And they said, you don't need film. 155 00:11:09,168 --> 00:11:10,302 This is a movie. 156 00:11:10,369 --> 00:11:11,904 It's make believe. 157 00:11:12,004 --> 00:11:14,206 I said, not make believe to me. 158 00:11:14,306 --> 00:11:15,474 I'm a photographer. 159 00:11:15,541 --> 00:11:16,809 I'm not an actor. 160 00:11:16,876 --> 00:11:19,845 I can't make believe I'm taking pictures. 161 00:11:34,193 --> 00:11:35,327 Actually, I don't 162 00:11:35,394 --> 00:11:36,762 know how I got in because I didn't 163 00:11:36,862 --> 00:11:38,097 phone the production company. 164 00:11:38,197 --> 00:11:39,832 I just called the Savoy and somehow got through 165 00:11:39,899 --> 00:11:41,434 to his suite and said I was the manager 166 00:11:41,534 --> 00:11:43,536 of The Yardbirds, who were the second biggest 167 00:11:43,602 --> 00:11:46,205 group in the world. 168 00:11:46,272 --> 00:11:48,441 And I went very prepared with lots of reviews 169 00:11:48,541 --> 00:11:50,509 and photographs and things. 170 00:11:50,576 --> 00:11:52,712 And I told him I'd heard from Kit Lambert 171 00:11:52,778 --> 00:11:54,714 that they hadn't got on very well. 172 00:11:54,780 --> 00:11:57,683 And I said to him that actually this smashing equipment, which 173 00:11:57,750 --> 00:12:01,954 he was very keen to see, really wasn't The Who that started it. 174 00:12:02,054 --> 00:12:03,522 I said it was the Yardbirds who started it 175 00:12:03,589 --> 00:12:04,423 and The Who copied them. 176 00:12:10,229 --> 00:12:12,298 And I said Jeff Beck always smashes... 177 00:12:12,398 --> 00:12:14,066 or he used to smash his guitar. 178 00:12:14,133 --> 00:12:15,634 He's marvelous at it. 179 00:12:15,735 --> 00:12:19,071 And anyway, I don't how I think Antonioni just got on with me. 180 00:12:19,138 --> 00:12:20,806 We clicked quite well. 181 00:12:20,906 --> 00:12:22,374 I think he probably knew I was lying, 182 00:12:22,441 --> 00:12:24,610 but I think he liked that too. 183 00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:27,046 And so he said, OK, they can come and do it. 184 00:12:32,384 --> 00:12:35,955 "We had to play a film to change the sets at The Hampstead 185 00:12:36,055 --> 00:12:38,491 Theatre between the various scenes 186 00:12:38,591 --> 00:12:41,627 in "Adventures in the Skin Trade." 187 00:12:41,727 --> 00:12:44,096 The shooting had to be done for next to nothing, 188 00:12:44,163 --> 00:12:48,234 but I was happy to do it in a surrealist or irrealist 189 00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:51,504 mode in the old black and white and silent manner. 190 00:12:51,604 --> 00:12:55,674 So there I was when a mysterious and beautiful woman I knew 191 00:12:55,775 --> 00:13:00,946 called Clare came in with a handsome elder Italian saying 192 00:13:01,013 --> 00:13:04,183 that they were looking for locations. 193 00:13:04,283 --> 00:13:07,820 And then I went upstairs to discover that Clare was with 194 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:13,259 Michelangelo Antonioni who was about to film "Blow-Up," 195 00:13:13,325 --> 00:13:15,928 which would turn out to be the definitive 196 00:13:15,995 --> 00:13:19,532 statement of how young life in London 197 00:13:19,632 --> 00:13:21,133 appeared to be right then." 198 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,310 David Hemmings at the time was absolutely broke, 199 00:13:31,377 --> 00:13:33,012 and we hired him. 200 00:13:33,112 --> 00:13:35,281 We first wanted to hire Terence Stamp, 201 00:13:35,347 --> 00:13:39,451 but Terence Stamp didn't like the play too much, 202 00:13:39,518 --> 00:13:42,688 and he knew he was actually being 203 00:13:42,788 --> 00:13:44,623 thought of to do. 204 00:13:44,690 --> 00:13:49,228 But Hemmings was number two to Stamp at the time. 205 00:13:49,328 --> 00:13:53,699 He had a spotty acting career, but he was 206 00:13:53,799 --> 00:13:56,302 available and absolutely broke. 207 00:13:56,368 --> 00:14:01,740 So he came to stay with me in my river house in Limehouse, 208 00:14:01,841 --> 00:14:03,342 and he had nothing. 209 00:14:03,409 --> 00:14:07,379 So we negotiated for 20 pounds a week was all he was getting. 210 00:14:11,517 --> 00:14:15,020 I took him to Limehouse in the East end 211 00:14:15,087 --> 00:14:19,992 on the docks... that part in London which was still a port, 212 00:14:20,059 --> 00:14:24,897 still functioning as port, where writer Andrew Sinclair lived, 213 00:14:24,997 --> 00:14:28,100 and he was working with David Hemmings, 214 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,270 and I went to the play with Antonioni. 215 00:14:39,278 --> 00:14:42,748 I saw that he had this energy, and what a capacity 216 00:14:42,848 --> 00:14:46,085 to sort of follow Antonioni rules, 217 00:14:46,185 --> 00:14:48,420 which was saying very little. 218 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,557 And being used in a way, you're used as a tool. 219 00:14:51,624 --> 00:14:55,394 And at the same time he had this quickness 220 00:14:55,461 --> 00:14:59,231 and sharpness which was very... 221 00:14:59,298 --> 00:15:00,733 right for the part. 222 00:15:00,799 --> 00:15:02,301 Hemmings is marvelous. 223 00:15:02,401 --> 00:15:05,070 It's probably his greatest performance as the young Dylan 224 00:15:05,137 --> 00:15:07,306 Thomas... quite extraordinary. 225 00:15:07,406 --> 00:15:09,875 Energetic, reckless and , 226 00:15:09,942 --> 00:15:12,111 he was perfect for "Blow-Up." 227 00:15:12,211 --> 00:15:15,247 So instead of 20 pounds a week, he 228 00:15:15,314 --> 00:15:18,951 left us for the set of "Blow-Up"... of course, 229 00:15:19,051 --> 00:15:20,753 Stamp had been fired. 230 00:15:20,819 --> 00:15:24,990 He had taken the role on 7,500 a week 231 00:15:25,090 --> 00:15:28,127 in a Rolls Royce white coupe. 232 00:15:28,227 --> 00:15:31,797 It was the biggest translation of fortunes I've ever seen. 233 00:15:36,468 --> 00:15:38,671 He was called Thomas in the "Blow-Up," 234 00:15:38,771 --> 00:15:41,974 the great photographer hero David Hemmings. 235 00:15:42,074 --> 00:15:46,011 Because, of course, that is how Antonioni. 236 00:15:46,111 --> 00:15:48,347 From "Adventures in the Skin Trade," 237 00:15:48,447 --> 00:15:50,749 he took out Dylan Thomas. 238 00:15:59,458 --> 00:16:02,861 The photographer studio was, at that time 239 00:16:02,962 --> 00:16:09,001 in '66, a very sort of emblematic place because 240 00:16:09,101 --> 00:16:13,372 of Bailey, and your fashion scene, and King's Road, 241 00:16:13,472 --> 00:16:15,774 and miniskirts. 242 00:16:15,841 --> 00:16:18,777 It was somehow culturally central. 243 00:16:23,549 --> 00:16:26,952 Antonioni was meticulous in researching 244 00:16:27,019 --> 00:16:32,324 to create a real authenticity around his character, 245 00:16:32,391 --> 00:16:36,895 around the details of how he lived, how a shoot works. 246 00:16:36,996 --> 00:16:43,836 It's underpinned with a lot of accurate, minute detailing. 247 00:16:47,139 --> 00:16:50,743 Antonioni asked Frances Windham, 248 00:16:50,843 --> 00:16:54,880 who was an extremely talented writer of "The Sunday Times," 249 00:16:54,980 --> 00:16:58,917 he wanted to compose a kind of questionnaire. 250 00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:03,922 And so what he had was data about the behavior, 251 00:17:04,022 --> 00:17:06,725 the choices made by photographers, 252 00:17:06,825 --> 00:17:09,495 their lifestyle, their attitudes to women, 253 00:17:09,561 --> 00:17:11,263 and to sex, and so on. 254 00:17:16,535 --> 00:17:18,103 Among the various photographers 255 00:17:18,203 --> 00:17:21,273 that he visited, of course was David Montgomery. 256 00:17:21,373 --> 00:17:25,611 So what I learnt in that moment was that the actor who had 257 00:17:25,711 --> 00:17:29,281 played the part of David Hemmings' assistant actually 258 00:17:29,381 --> 00:17:30,616 wasn't an actor at all. 259 00:17:36,355 --> 00:17:41,360 Reg was David Montgomery's assistant. 260 00:17:41,427 --> 00:17:44,563 And Antonioni felt no need to change his name. 261 00:17:52,204 --> 00:17:53,372 This is good. 262 00:17:53,439 --> 00:17:54,940 This is the Hendrix nudes. 263 00:17:59,578 --> 00:18:08,420 This was 1966... a long time ago. 264 00:18:08,487 --> 00:18:11,757 I was doing a shooting for Harper's Bazaar, 265 00:18:11,824 --> 00:18:15,327 and Mr. Antonioni came down. 266 00:18:15,427 --> 00:18:19,832 I did a photograph of these girls wrapped in plastic. 267 00:18:19,932 --> 00:18:24,503 We didn't talk much, and he ended up using... 268 00:18:24,603 --> 00:18:27,272 I think all the girls that were in the shooting, 269 00:18:27,339 --> 00:18:29,074 they were in the movie as well. 270 00:18:32,911 --> 00:18:37,349 There were three models, one called Melanie Hampshire, 271 00:18:37,449 --> 00:18:40,319 and another one called Peggy Moffitt, 272 00:18:40,419 --> 00:18:44,623 and she was the first Rudi Gernreich 273 00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:49,261 model for the topless bikini for women. 274 00:18:49,328 --> 00:18:52,831 And then another one called Jill Kennington 275 00:18:52,931 --> 00:18:57,503 was just one of those people that could move. 276 00:18:57,603 --> 00:18:59,471 She had natural grace. 277 00:19:06,712 --> 00:19:07,946 The curious thing 278 00:19:08,013 --> 00:19:10,816 was that we weren't going to be filming 279 00:19:10,883 --> 00:19:12,151 in Shepperton or anything else. 280 00:19:12,217 --> 00:19:17,022 It was actually taking place in this studio, 281 00:19:17,122 --> 00:19:19,358 which was John Khan's studio. 282 00:19:19,458 --> 00:19:22,227 And I lived here for a few years. 283 00:19:26,331 --> 00:19:28,233 The studio, John Kahn's studio, 284 00:19:28,333 --> 00:19:32,471 is in a part of London which was then quite shabby, quite 285 00:19:32,538 --> 00:19:34,673 scruffy, an area where you could rent 286 00:19:34,740 --> 00:19:37,876 a big space, not crazy money. 287 00:19:37,976 --> 00:19:44,349 Today it's become so grand and so expensive, that area. 288 00:19:44,416 --> 00:19:48,387 The studio is at 39 Prince's Place. 289 00:19:48,487 --> 00:19:51,089 If you go to 39 Prince's Place today, 290 00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:55,427 you will be confused because the facade will not correspond 291 00:19:55,527 --> 00:19:58,263 to what you know from the film. 292 00:19:58,363 --> 00:20:01,733 You have to go around the corner to Pottery Lane 293 00:20:01,833 --> 00:20:06,605 to find the facade, so the exterior shots were 294 00:20:06,705 --> 00:20:09,007 made in this nearby street. 295 00:20:16,715 --> 00:20:19,117 When John agreed to rent the studio out 296 00:20:19,218 --> 00:20:23,789 to Antonioni as the principal set, he lived in a caravan 297 00:20:23,889 --> 00:20:25,290 in the street outside. 298 00:20:25,390 --> 00:20:27,626 And I gather that Antonioni would 299 00:20:27,726 --> 00:20:29,861 probably have preferred that he'd 300 00:20:29,928 --> 00:20:31,797 moved a little further away. 301 00:20:50,449 --> 00:20:51,717 As far as I remember, 302 00:20:51,783 --> 00:20:54,620 the actual shoot took about a week. 303 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,155 And it was so out of character for me 304 00:20:57,256 --> 00:21:02,828 to be what ended up by being the role of us five 305 00:21:02,928 --> 00:21:07,766 girls being completely dumb, and stupid, 306 00:21:07,833 --> 00:21:11,069 and very immobile as well. 307 00:21:11,136 --> 00:21:15,440 You know, rather than the usual animation that I was used to. 308 00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:21,246 He obviously knew exactly what he wanted from us, 309 00:21:21,313 --> 00:21:27,119 and that was like a tableau, and he wanted the David Hemmings 310 00:21:27,185 --> 00:21:30,322 character to be very sort of alive, 311 00:21:30,422 --> 00:21:33,191 and for some reason quite rude. 312 00:21:33,292 --> 00:21:35,761 But he wanted us to be quite inanimate, 313 00:21:35,827 --> 00:21:37,996 so I couldn't move very much. 314 00:21:38,096 --> 00:21:41,633 I remember feeling quite restricted. 315 00:21:49,041 --> 00:21:51,209 Jill was one of the absolute top London 316 00:21:51,310 --> 00:21:53,512 models of the '60s. 317 00:21:53,612 --> 00:21:57,349 John Cowan, with whom she had that close relationship, 318 00:21:57,449 --> 00:22:01,553 was absolutely at the top of the game. 319 00:22:01,653 --> 00:22:05,657 He was one of the key photographers defining what 320 00:22:05,724 --> 00:22:07,726 we know as Swinging London. 321 00:22:07,826 --> 00:22:10,662 But setting that new mood... 322 00:22:10,729 --> 00:22:14,866 energetic, dynamic, youthful... he was intensely 323 00:22:14,966 --> 00:22:17,235 creative in the early '60s. 324 00:22:17,336 --> 00:22:21,006 They were a golden couple of a golden moment 325 00:22:21,073 --> 00:22:24,543 in British cultural history. 326 00:22:24,643 --> 00:22:27,079 But for different reasons they didn't 327 00:22:27,179 --> 00:22:29,147 stay in the spotlight in the way, 328 00:22:29,214 --> 00:22:33,552 for instance, David Bailey and Jean Shrimpton stayed 329 00:22:33,652 --> 00:22:36,521 in the spotlight and have maintained that that presence 330 00:22:36,588 --> 00:22:37,989 as reputations ever since. 331 00:22:41,026 --> 00:22:43,428 We have to remember, a lot of his great, 332 00:22:43,528 --> 00:22:47,232 great photographs were made for newsprint, 333 00:22:47,332 --> 00:22:49,401 as opposed to magazines. 334 00:22:49,501 --> 00:22:53,905 He was working for the Sunday papers and the daily papers, 335 00:22:54,005 --> 00:22:58,443 and one realizes that he made some of his finest pictures, 336 00:22:58,543 --> 00:23:01,380 destined to have a life span of one day. 337 00:23:01,446 --> 00:23:02,714 The interesting thing 338 00:23:02,781 --> 00:23:08,453 is that he kept the essence of this studio 339 00:23:08,553 --> 00:23:11,456 as it was when John had it, because he 340 00:23:11,556 --> 00:23:16,361 had such huge great blow ups, particularly of me, many of me. 341 00:23:16,428 --> 00:23:17,796 So it was interesting. 342 00:23:17,896 --> 00:23:20,799 He did want to show the energy in those photographs 343 00:23:20,899 --> 00:23:22,534 and have it in the set as well. 344 00:23:22,601 --> 00:23:24,302 So that was good. 345 00:23:24,403 --> 00:23:25,470 I liked that. 346 00:23:28,807 --> 00:23:32,210 Bailey's work was not what the film was about, 347 00:23:32,277 --> 00:23:37,416 but his character, as in what David Hemmings was inspired by, 348 00:23:37,482 --> 00:23:40,986 I think possibly came a lot from Bailey. 349 00:23:41,086 --> 00:23:46,425 But the energy came from John Cowan, for sure. 350 00:23:46,491 --> 00:23:52,898 The shooting with Veruschka and David was pure John Cowan. 351 00:23:52,964 --> 00:23:55,233 I mean I'd worked with him like that. 352 00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:59,004 Sadly, it wasn't when Antonioni was watching us. 353 00:23:59,104 --> 00:24:00,839 But that didn't matter. 354 00:24:00,939 --> 00:24:06,011 Veruschka was perfect for that role, and I think completely... 355 00:24:06,111 --> 00:24:08,780 John used to often get up a step ladder, for example, 356 00:24:08,847 --> 00:24:12,083 and film from the floor, or the other way up. 357 00:24:12,150 --> 00:24:13,285 You're lying on glass. 358 00:24:13,351 --> 00:24:15,754 I mean he was just very innovative. 359 00:24:57,629 --> 00:25:00,866 It's changed dimension. 360 00:25:00,966 --> 00:25:02,534 I think it used to be a lot wider. 361 00:25:07,239 --> 00:25:10,008 The things that used to happen here, 362 00:25:10,075 --> 00:25:13,578 and I used to live here for a while. 363 00:25:13,678 --> 00:25:14,379 It's great. 364 00:25:25,857 --> 00:25:28,727 Oh, I feel as if I know every bit of the floor 365 00:25:28,827 --> 00:25:33,765 as well, where we did photographs and the filming, 366 00:25:33,865 --> 00:25:34,533 of course. 367 00:25:45,877 --> 00:25:47,746 This used to be a fabulous space, 368 00:25:47,846 --> 00:25:50,348 and I think when Antonioni found here, he just 369 00:25:50,415 --> 00:25:54,853 thought it was the bee's knees, because you could get 370 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,958 a whole film crew in here, and you could shoot from the top, 371 00:26:00,058 --> 00:26:03,028 which made it very interesting. 372 00:26:03,094 --> 00:26:04,796 And I guess the Veruschka picture 373 00:26:04,896 --> 00:26:05,864 must have been from here. 374 00:26:16,141 --> 00:26:18,777 I wonder what's going to happen next. 375 00:26:18,877 --> 00:26:22,314 It's a piece of history, though, this film being made here. 376 00:26:22,414 --> 00:26:26,151 I didn't realize at the time that film 377 00:26:26,251 --> 00:26:27,919 would be so significant... 378 00:26:27,986 --> 00:26:32,490 you know, sort of bird's eye view into London life. 379 00:26:32,591 --> 00:26:34,759 Some of it was exaggerated, of course. 380 00:26:34,826 --> 00:26:38,897 Well, that's a director's privilege. 381 00:26:38,964 --> 00:26:42,801 And I never knew what was in Antonioni head. 382 00:26:42,901 --> 00:26:46,504 He was quite a sort of philosophical man, 383 00:26:46,605 --> 00:26:47,305 and very quiet. 384 00:27:16,534 --> 00:27:19,437 The most composed secrets of all 385 00:27:19,504 --> 00:27:23,108 is the models in the reflective glass, 386 00:27:23,174 --> 00:27:26,011 because it's a key sequence that embodies 387 00:27:26,111 --> 00:27:30,849 the meaning of the film of just a man with a camera who's 388 00:27:30,949 --> 00:27:33,852 playing with images, visions. 389 00:27:33,952 --> 00:27:36,388 These are visions that he's able to control. 390 00:27:36,488 --> 00:27:38,323 And of course, what happens then is that's something 391 00:27:38,390 --> 00:27:40,325 that he can't control. 392 00:27:40,392 --> 00:27:46,831 The fastidiousness of his vision was very clear in the studio. 393 00:27:49,734 --> 00:27:51,636 When we came to do set up, everybody 394 00:27:51,703 --> 00:27:55,540 had to leave the studio, and Michelangelo would be 395 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,409 in there with the viewfinder. 396 00:27:57,509 --> 00:28:00,845 And he would be working out what would happen next, 397 00:28:00,912 --> 00:28:02,480 and then he would call DePalma, 398 00:28:02,547 --> 00:28:04,149 their cameraman, called the first assistant, 399 00:28:04,215 --> 00:28:07,318 and then he'd call for the actors, and me, 400 00:28:07,385 --> 00:28:10,588 and they would then work it out, because he 401 00:28:10,689 --> 00:28:16,561 would design the set up very slowly, with great care. 402 00:28:24,269 --> 00:28:28,673 The scene with the girls and the paper, the nude scene, 403 00:28:28,740 --> 00:28:32,377 was, of course, different again, because there was 404 00:28:32,444 --> 00:28:34,245 the fact that they were naked... 405 00:28:34,345 --> 00:28:36,715 that's difficult, and you have to close the set and so on. 406 00:28:36,781 --> 00:28:40,685 And the fact also that it was completely unrehearsed. 407 00:28:40,752 --> 00:28:43,455 You couldn't possibly rehearse that scene. 408 00:28:43,555 --> 00:28:46,057 So it was just a romp in paper. 409 00:28:50,729 --> 00:28:52,764 I loved that sequence because that he's 410 00:28:52,864 --> 00:28:56,201 using the paper, which is part of the photographer's 411 00:28:56,267 --> 00:28:59,704 tool of a photographer that you see him pulling down the paper, 412 00:28:59,771 --> 00:29:02,140 you know, when he's working he's changing the sheets. 413 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,544 And here it's used with wit and style. 414 00:29:25,463 --> 00:29:27,665 My husband Pierre Rouve was, indeed, 415 00:29:27,766 --> 00:29:30,268 the executive producer on "Blow-Up," 416 00:29:30,335 --> 00:29:34,939 working for Bridge Films, which is, of course, the English 417 00:29:35,006 --> 00:29:39,010 version of Ponti, Carlo Ponti. 418 00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:42,180 One evening... I think I was drawing the blinds here 419 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,517 in the sitting room, and noticed that Antonioni in his car 420 00:29:45,617 --> 00:29:49,020 was parked outside on the other side of the road. 421 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,991 I imagined that Pierre had invited to come for supper, 422 00:29:53,091 --> 00:29:55,460 but had forgotten to tell me, and had 423 00:29:55,527 --> 00:29:57,695 forgotten to come back home. 424 00:29:57,796 --> 00:30:02,200 And so I telephoned him and I said, as far as I can see, 425 00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:06,204 Antonioni's actually sitting in his car outside the house, 426 00:30:06,304 --> 00:30:10,041 but he doesn't seem to want to come into the house. 427 00:30:10,141 --> 00:30:12,310 He said, don't do anything. 428 00:30:12,377 --> 00:30:15,780 He's actually a very, very shy person 429 00:30:15,847 --> 00:30:20,518 and would find it very difficult to make casual conversation. 430 00:30:20,618 --> 00:30:25,790 So I waited, he waited, and finally Pierre came home. 431 00:30:28,326 --> 00:30:30,895 He was also working as a lecturer, 432 00:30:30,995 --> 00:30:36,401 and that meant that he had the opportunity to invite Antonioni 433 00:30:36,501 --> 00:30:39,070 to visit the Chelsea School of Art 434 00:30:39,170 --> 00:30:44,509 where Antonioni would have been introduced to Ian Stephenson 435 00:30:44,576 --> 00:30:46,878 and seen his work, originally. 436 00:30:51,516 --> 00:30:53,151 And over here, of course, this 437 00:30:53,218 --> 00:30:58,590 is the painting which appears in the film, and is talked about. 438 00:30:58,690 --> 00:31:02,861 This motif is based on a Greek classical sculpture. 439 00:31:02,927 --> 00:31:05,029 When described by David Hemmings, 440 00:31:05,096 --> 00:31:07,332 the artist turned into a leg in the film, 441 00:31:07,398 --> 00:31:09,000 but it doesn't make any difference. 442 00:31:09,067 --> 00:31:11,402 In fact, that's more magical than if they 443 00:31:11,502 --> 00:31:12,503 actually described it. 444 00:31:15,773 --> 00:31:17,742 He didn't fit in anywhere. 445 00:31:17,842 --> 00:31:19,944 He wasn't a pot painter, he wasn't 446 00:31:20,044 --> 00:31:22,413 an American style colorist. 447 00:31:22,513 --> 00:31:25,450 He was just making these extraordinary artworks of 448 00:31:25,550 --> 00:31:28,052 all different colored paints. 449 00:31:28,119 --> 00:31:30,889 In a way he suffered for that, because he's never 450 00:31:30,955 --> 00:31:33,091 in big exhibitions very often because they 451 00:31:33,191 --> 00:31:34,592 don't know where to put him. 452 00:31:39,564 --> 00:31:42,700 Antonioni could have been introduced to a range 453 00:31:42,767 --> 00:31:46,537 of artists who, it might be felt, 454 00:31:46,604 --> 00:31:53,044 represented the spirit of London at that point in the mid-'60s. 455 00:31:53,111 --> 00:31:55,880 Stephenson is an interesting choice. 456 00:31:55,947 --> 00:32:00,618 He's somebody who deconstructs the process of vision 457 00:32:00,718 --> 00:32:03,755 and representation itself. 458 00:32:03,821 --> 00:32:06,257 When Antonioni came to the studio, 459 00:32:06,324 --> 00:32:11,663 Ian had on his perfectly clean white t-shirt, beautiful jeans, 460 00:32:11,763 --> 00:32:15,733 hair all combed, and had the conversations with Antonioni, 461 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,335 and then they went away. 462 00:32:17,435 --> 00:32:22,006 And eventually when Ian was on the set at some point, 463 00:32:22,106 --> 00:32:26,010 the artist in the film appeared in a pair of blue jeans 464 00:32:26,110 --> 00:32:28,579 and a very white t-shirt and his hair all combed, 465 00:32:28,646 --> 00:32:31,115 and Ian must have said to them, well, I don't look 466 00:32:31,182 --> 00:32:32,517 like that when I'm painting. 467 00:32:32,617 --> 00:32:38,690 And someone must have just taken a paint brush 468 00:32:38,790 --> 00:32:42,160 and made three or four marks on the white t-shirt, completely 469 00:32:42,260 --> 00:32:45,530 arbitrary, nothing to do with anything like Ian's dots. 470 00:32:50,802 --> 00:32:52,704 Assheton Gorton, the production designer, 471 00:32:52,804 --> 00:32:55,540 came to Ian in the studio to select some things 472 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,376 to be on the set, and took virtually 473 00:32:58,476 --> 00:33:00,378 everything out of the studio. 474 00:33:00,478 --> 00:33:06,217 The plaster cast, all the pots of paints, some easels, 475 00:33:06,317 --> 00:33:08,219 I think there was a chair, actually... just 476 00:33:08,319 --> 00:33:13,157 sort of in-studio contents disappeared into a van 477 00:33:13,224 --> 00:33:15,226 and were away for quite a long time. 478 00:33:15,326 --> 00:33:18,229 So he couldn't actually get on with what he was doing. 479 00:33:25,336 --> 00:33:26,904 I heard a lot about Pierre 480 00:33:27,005 --> 00:33:29,974 needing to get up terribly early in the morning 481 00:33:30,041 --> 00:33:33,011 and having to go down to Stockwell to make sure 482 00:33:33,077 --> 00:33:35,680 that the right amount of houses were painted 483 00:33:35,747 --> 00:33:38,683 the right color of red, because Antonioni would 484 00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:41,419 never have had the wrong red. 485 00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:44,522 It had to be the right thing, the perfect thing. 486 00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:51,763 Antonioni was very fortunate in having 487 00:33:51,863 --> 00:33:54,265 an excellent production designer, 488 00:33:54,365 --> 00:33:56,768 a man called Assheton Gorton, who 489 00:33:56,868 --> 00:34:02,006 was very sensitive to locations in London. 490 00:34:02,073 --> 00:34:05,943 So we begin with the Economist Building, an extremely 491 00:34:06,044 --> 00:34:08,746 modern architecture in London. 492 00:34:32,370 --> 00:34:36,441 What Assheton Gorton did was to find a shop, and stuff that 493 00:34:36,541 --> 00:34:40,211 full of this kind of debris. 494 00:34:40,278 --> 00:34:46,217 So that we see, if you like, the relics of an imperial past. 495 00:34:46,284 --> 00:34:47,919 We know that they're not sympathetic 496 00:34:47,985 --> 00:34:49,954 to the young photographer. 497 00:34:50,054 --> 00:34:53,624 On the other hand, he seizes upon the propeller. 498 00:34:56,094 --> 00:35:01,766 It's true of Antonioni's spirit, an ambivalent object. 499 00:35:01,833 --> 00:35:04,836 It's a relic, it's antiquated. 500 00:35:04,936 --> 00:35:08,339 On the other hand, it's about the era of modernity. 501 00:35:13,945 --> 00:35:18,449 But the main thing he did was to find the park, 502 00:35:18,516 --> 00:35:20,952 and the park was like a little... 503 00:35:21,018 --> 00:35:23,688 a little theatre. 504 00:35:23,788 --> 00:35:26,691 He wanted a stage set. 505 00:35:26,791 --> 00:35:31,596 It was a park, a London park, but it felt a compacted space. 506 00:35:40,938 --> 00:35:44,208 When we arrived outside the park, 507 00:35:44,308 --> 00:35:47,478 by this antique shop, one could see that the road 508 00:35:47,545 --> 00:35:49,514 was sort of a particular color. 509 00:35:49,614 --> 00:35:53,885 And I learned that they had, in fact, painted the road. 510 00:35:53,985 --> 00:35:56,821 And this was the first experience 511 00:35:56,888 --> 00:36:00,024 of the degree of control of color 512 00:36:00,124 --> 00:36:02,960 that Michelangelo had developed, from this 513 00:36:03,027 --> 00:36:07,398 where he's so particular about the color. 514 00:36:07,498 --> 00:36:08,499 It's an art. 515 00:36:08,566 --> 00:36:09,700 It's like painting with color. 516 00:36:44,368 --> 00:36:47,438 As very young and not experienced in cinema, 517 00:36:47,538 --> 00:36:50,908 I didn't quite understand why the sun was shining 518 00:36:51,008 --> 00:36:52,543 and we didn't shoot. 519 00:36:52,610 --> 00:36:55,746 And he explained to me that I need the cloud. 520 00:36:55,846 --> 00:36:58,916 It has to be very English, it has to be gloomy. 521 00:36:59,016 --> 00:37:01,953 This was another aspect of the precision, the 522 00:37:02,053 --> 00:37:05,423 artistic precision of his eye. 523 00:38:16,294 --> 00:38:19,096 It was in '94 or '95 524 00:38:19,163 --> 00:38:23,200 I think that I had the extreme good fortune 525 00:38:23,301 --> 00:38:28,873 to find the original blow-ups that feature in the film, 526 00:38:28,973 --> 00:38:30,374 or at least a number of them. 527 00:38:30,474 --> 00:38:33,844 Just over 20 of the original blow-ups with the drawing 528 00:38:33,944 --> 00:38:36,714 pin holes, where Hemmings pinned them to the beam 529 00:38:36,814 --> 00:38:37,515 or to the wall. 530 00:38:46,057 --> 00:38:53,397 20 of these photographs made in the park showing the couple... 531 00:38:53,497 --> 00:38:56,300 is it a gun in the bushes, is it a body? 532 00:38:56,367 --> 00:39:01,038 That picture story where Thomas, the photographer, thinks he's 533 00:39:01,138 --> 00:39:02,540 stumbled on a murder. 534 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,142 The evidence, the evidential pictures. 535 00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:15,720 At first it was a mystery as to who had actually taken them. 536 00:39:15,820 --> 00:39:18,889 Somehow... I forget how the connection was made... 537 00:39:18,989 --> 00:39:21,325 I learnt that it was Don McCullin. 538 00:39:21,392 --> 00:39:25,162 Don McCullin who is such an illustrious reputation 539 00:39:25,229 --> 00:39:31,769 in the history, known for his really powerful war reportage. 540 00:39:31,869 --> 00:39:36,107 He was a great photojournalist covering the great conflicts 541 00:39:36,207 --> 00:39:38,843 of his time. 542 00:39:38,909 --> 00:39:41,379 Antonioni had asked Arthur Evans, 543 00:39:41,445 --> 00:39:43,781 the onset photographer for "Blow-Up," 544 00:39:43,881 --> 00:39:50,855 to take some pictures in a park, which he did, but Arthur 545 00:39:50,921 --> 00:39:54,291 Evans didn't get them right. 546 00:39:54,392 --> 00:39:57,261 They were too clear, too crisp... 547 00:39:57,361 --> 00:39:59,930 ... too professional in a sense. 548 00:40:00,030 --> 00:40:03,934 And Antonioni realized he needed something more gritty, 549 00:40:04,034 --> 00:40:07,104 some... when you blew it up would soon 550 00:40:07,204 --> 00:40:09,707 become this pattern of green. 551 00:40:09,774 --> 00:40:11,976 And through connections, possibly 552 00:40:12,076 --> 00:40:15,646 through Frances Wyndham, because both Frances Wyndham and Don 553 00:40:15,746 --> 00:40:18,215 McCullin were working on "The Sunday Times," 554 00:40:18,282 --> 00:40:20,451 he was introduced to Don McCullin 555 00:40:20,551 --> 00:40:24,054 and saw the gritty style of photography 556 00:40:24,121 --> 00:40:28,726 that he was associated with, and he became the man for the job. 557 00:40:42,339 --> 00:40:45,443 Most crucial, there is a body at the end of the line. 558 00:40:47,945 --> 00:40:51,415 Now, McCullin had been, earlier in the 1960s, 559 00:40:51,482 --> 00:40:55,753 in Cyprus, in other theaters of conflict 560 00:40:55,820 --> 00:40:58,656 where he had photographed bodies. 561 00:41:04,995 --> 00:41:07,531 Ian was invited onto the set 562 00:41:07,631 --> 00:41:12,536 to actually drop some paint on some of the blank canvases. 563 00:41:12,636 --> 00:41:15,873 And there was a bit of floom with his hand doing it. 564 00:41:15,973 --> 00:41:19,543 It did show that was how it was put onto the canvas... 565 00:41:19,643 --> 00:41:23,113 dropped and moved around and counted. 566 00:41:23,180 --> 00:41:25,816 Antonioni did ask Ian about trying 567 00:41:25,883 --> 00:41:31,055 to relate the image on the canvas to the photographs. 568 00:41:31,155 --> 00:41:32,490 And Ian didn't copy them. 569 00:41:32,556 --> 00:41:34,058 He couldn't have copied them. 570 00:41:34,158 --> 00:41:38,295 But he did make some movement on the surface of the paintings 571 00:41:38,362 --> 00:41:41,165 which represented the more abstracted 572 00:41:41,232 --> 00:41:46,737 forms on the blow-up version of the photograph. 573 00:41:46,837 --> 00:41:51,742 Antonioni wanted to double back on his own film 574 00:41:51,842 --> 00:41:56,413 by having it mirrored in a painting by Stephenson. 575 00:41:56,514 --> 00:42:01,385 And so he requests that a painting be made from one 576 00:42:01,485 --> 00:42:06,190 of the stills that Don McCullin had provided... these, 577 00:42:06,257 --> 00:42:08,926 which have such extraordinarily highly 578 00:42:09,026 --> 00:42:11,095 charged atmospheres to them. 579 00:42:11,195 --> 00:42:14,765 Because they show the disappearance of form 580 00:42:14,865 --> 00:42:18,936 in foliage and undergrowth, then for Stephenson 581 00:42:19,036 --> 00:42:24,375 to then step up to that and show forms disappearing 582 00:42:24,441 --> 00:42:26,777 in paint as painted marks. 583 00:42:39,223 --> 00:42:41,725 Don McCullin was the name attached 584 00:42:41,792 --> 00:42:44,261 to the blow-ups made in the park, 585 00:42:44,361 --> 00:42:50,100 but Don McCullin is the name attached to the pictures which 586 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,070 Thomas, the photographer, shows to his agent in the scene 587 00:42:53,137 --> 00:42:55,973 in the restaurant where they're looking 588 00:42:56,073 --> 00:43:00,110 at the maquette of a book which he hopes to publish. 589 00:43:00,210 --> 00:43:02,046 And these pictures are the... they're 590 00:43:02,112 --> 00:43:06,984 the absolute opposite of his his high fashion pictures. 591 00:43:07,084 --> 00:43:10,220 They're his photographs of tramps, down and outs, 592 00:43:10,287 --> 00:43:11,555 people in the east end of London, 593 00:43:11,622 --> 00:43:14,258 the poor, the underbelly of the dark side, 594 00:43:14,325 --> 00:43:18,596 this glamorous city that people talk about as Swinging London. 595 00:43:26,270 --> 00:43:28,172 Peter Bowles had quite an important part 596 00:43:28,272 --> 00:43:30,674 as the agent of Hemmings. 597 00:43:30,774 --> 00:43:34,011 And unfortunately, on one key day 598 00:43:34,111 --> 00:43:37,681 was very upset because Michelangelo had cut 599 00:43:37,781 --> 00:43:43,153 quite a long speech, which is central to the meaning 600 00:43:43,253 --> 00:43:44,288 of the film, really. 601 00:43:44,355 --> 00:43:46,624 And so he was saying to the peers, 602 00:43:46,690 --> 00:43:48,792 surely this is very important. 603 00:43:48,859 --> 00:43:50,928 You know, surely I should say this. 604 00:43:50,995 --> 00:43:55,032 And Peter has written very interestingly about how 605 00:43:55,132 --> 00:43:59,670 Michelangelo said, I'll tell you why we have to cut it, 606 00:43:59,770 --> 00:44:02,940 that's because it says what the film's about, 607 00:44:03,007 --> 00:44:06,810 and I prefer people not to be told what the film's about. 608 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,350 The technique of getting the actors to do what it was 609 00:44:13,450 --> 00:44:17,688 that he wanted was slightly different with different actors 610 00:44:17,788 --> 00:44:18,822 in different sequences. 611 00:44:26,130 --> 00:44:28,365 The arrival of Vanessa Redgrave was very interesting 612 00:44:28,465 --> 00:44:32,136 because she hadn't been part of the film up till that time, 613 00:44:32,202 --> 00:44:38,175 and she was very intelligent in working on Antinuromy. 614 00:44:38,242 --> 00:44:42,746 She was proactive in talking to him 615 00:44:42,846 --> 00:44:48,886 and tried to suck out from him what it was that he wanted. 616 00:44:48,986 --> 00:44:51,855 And you could see the intensity of her concentration, 617 00:44:51,922 --> 00:44:55,192 because on the page the character is nothing. 618 00:44:55,259 --> 00:44:57,695 So she couldn't prepare this character. 619 00:45:02,766 --> 00:45:05,202 She's a Shakespearean actress, and she 620 00:45:05,269 --> 00:45:07,171 withdrew all of her Shakespearean technique 621 00:45:07,237 --> 00:45:13,177 out, and simply existed in front of the camera in the situation 622 00:45:13,243 --> 00:45:18,015 intensely, vividly, and had this close relationship 623 00:45:18,082 --> 00:45:20,951 with Antonioni. 624 00:45:21,051 --> 00:45:24,555 Sarah Miles had a... not a very big part. 625 00:45:24,621 --> 00:45:30,094 And I think maybe that was a bit of a issue for her. 626 00:45:30,194 --> 00:45:32,196 I think also she didn't get on well 627 00:45:32,262 --> 00:45:33,731 with Michelangelo Antonioni. 628 00:45:33,797 --> 00:45:38,769 So things didn't go very well, and then she got annoyed. 629 00:45:38,869 --> 00:45:40,804 I think she got angry. 630 00:45:40,904 --> 00:45:43,207 The relationship with Sarah was an example 631 00:45:43,273 --> 00:45:44,475 of one that did not work. 632 00:45:44,575 --> 00:45:46,744 The relationship with Vanessa did work. 633 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:52,449 With David, it was different. 634 00:45:52,549 --> 00:45:53,951 He was not technical. 635 00:45:54,051 --> 00:45:56,453 He would kind of, I think, give him 636 00:45:56,553 --> 00:45:59,089 guidelines and get him to improvise, 637 00:45:59,156 --> 00:46:01,325 to feel free and be natural. 638 00:46:04,995 --> 00:46:07,331 One of the most interesting things about the film for me 639 00:46:07,431 --> 00:46:13,437 was working with David Hemmings, because he was enormous fun. 640 00:46:13,504 --> 00:46:17,841 And he had a Jeep. 641 00:46:17,941 --> 00:46:20,144 I think that he had bought the Jeep in order 642 00:46:20,244 --> 00:46:23,480 to hire it to the film. 643 00:46:23,580 --> 00:46:25,015 I don't know how much they paid him per week, 644 00:46:25,115 --> 00:46:30,587 but it was a very clever idea on his part. 645 00:46:30,654 --> 00:46:34,525 We borrowed the Jeep one night and went camping, David 646 00:46:34,625 --> 00:46:38,529 and his girlfriend and I. We found a tent, took the Jeep, 647 00:46:38,629 --> 00:46:41,832 drove out of London, slept in the forest, 648 00:46:41,932 --> 00:46:44,101 and drove back in for filming the next day. 649 00:46:44,168 --> 00:46:46,336 He shouldn't have been allowed to take the Jeep because it's 650 00:46:46,436 --> 00:46:48,472 a prop on the film. 651 00:46:48,539 --> 00:46:51,809 He also occasionally borrowed the Rolls Royce. 652 00:46:51,875 --> 00:46:54,044 He took me and a girlfriend in the Rolls 653 00:46:54,144 --> 00:46:58,549 Royce up and down the King's Road. 654 00:46:58,649 --> 00:47:01,685 David was always keen to have a good time. 655 00:47:01,785 --> 00:47:05,789 Jeep, Rolls Royce, girls, friend, a good time. 656 00:47:13,831 --> 00:47:15,365 The filming actually took place 657 00:47:15,465 --> 00:47:19,336 in the Elstree MGM Studios, which was a great big cabin 658 00:47:19,403 --> 00:47:22,139 of studios, and you walk into this huge studio, 659 00:47:22,206 --> 00:47:24,408 there in one little corner right over there that 660 00:47:24,508 --> 00:47:27,344 just is a nightclub set up. 661 00:47:27,411 --> 00:47:29,346 Because the whole place is cold. 662 00:47:29,413 --> 00:47:30,714 They don't have heating in there. 663 00:47:30,814 --> 00:47:33,517 So to create an atmosphere of warmth and smoke 664 00:47:33,584 --> 00:47:37,154 and all that is really very, very difficult. 665 00:47:37,221 --> 00:47:40,591 I have recently bought a second guitar to the group. 666 00:47:40,691 --> 00:47:42,359 The base player had left. 667 00:47:42,426 --> 00:47:45,996 And Jeff was very keen for Jimmy Page to come in and play base. 668 00:47:46,063 --> 00:47:49,433 And I told Jeff, I don't mind, but he won't play base. 669 00:47:49,533 --> 00:47:50,901 I promise you. 670 00:47:51,001 --> 00:47:53,770 After one day he'll say no, I want to play guitar too. 671 00:47:53,871 --> 00:47:56,707 And I explained to Jeff that he had to smash his guitar. 672 00:47:56,773 --> 00:47:58,609 He just refused at point blank. 673 00:47:58,709 --> 00:48:00,177 Jeff never smashed a guitar. 674 00:48:00,244 --> 00:48:01,078 He loves his guitar. 675 00:48:01,178 --> 00:48:02,079 They're his children. 676 00:48:02,179 --> 00:48:04,114 He nurses them, he strokes them. 677 00:48:04,214 --> 00:48:07,618 He couldn't believe I was asking him to smash his guitar. 678 00:48:07,718 --> 00:48:09,119 But eventually he did agree. 679 00:48:09,219 --> 00:48:11,955 We bought a second guitar from a cheap guitar. 680 00:48:12,055 --> 00:48:13,790 And I said, we're not going to smash the guitar. 681 00:48:13,891 --> 00:48:15,125 You just push it through the amp. 682 00:48:15,225 --> 00:48:17,628 You break the amp, but with your guitar. 683 00:48:17,728 --> 00:48:19,296 And he tried a few times in rehearsal 684 00:48:19,396 --> 00:48:21,865 and it went quite well, because the amp broke 685 00:48:21,932 --> 00:48:23,934 without the guitar breaking. 686 00:48:24,034 --> 00:48:26,937 And then at the filming, he really got into it. 687 00:48:27,037 --> 00:48:30,107 He didn't really get into it, but Antonioni called 688 00:48:30,207 --> 00:48:31,208 him out in front of everybody. 689 00:48:31,275 --> 00:48:32,442 He said, Jeff, come on. 690 00:48:32,542 --> 00:48:33,710 We've got to do it. 691 00:48:33,777 --> 00:48:35,245 There was a crowd there, the people filming, 692 00:48:35,312 --> 00:48:37,915 and people wanted to go to lunch and it was Take 38. 693 00:48:37,981 --> 00:48:40,150 So finally, Jeff didn't really get angry with the guitar, 694 00:48:40,250 --> 00:48:43,086 he got angry at Antonioni, and he took his anger 695 00:48:43,153 --> 00:48:44,221 and smashes the amp. 696 00:48:44,288 --> 00:48:44,988 Ah, cut. 697 00:48:45,088 --> 00:48:45,756 Lovely. 698 00:48:45,822 --> 00:48:46,723 Off to lunch. 699 00:48:50,460 --> 00:48:51,828 People often talk as if Yardbirds 700 00:48:51,929 --> 00:48:53,830 was some great influence from Antonioni, 701 00:48:53,931 --> 00:48:56,934 but it's completely the other way around, because Antonioni 702 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:58,468 sort of broke up the Yardbirds. 703 00:48:58,568 --> 00:49:00,570 Therefore, may have been instrumental in creating 704 00:49:00,637 --> 00:49:01,772 Led Zeppelin. 705 00:49:01,838 --> 00:49:03,840 So we can put Antonioni into rock history. 706 00:49:23,327 --> 00:49:25,595 I had a contract for a certain length of time, 707 00:49:25,662 --> 00:49:28,532 and then I had to leave the film. 708 00:49:28,632 --> 00:49:30,367 And the film overran... 709 00:49:30,467 --> 00:49:32,369 several weeks over. 710 00:49:32,469 --> 00:49:35,539 I didn't know everything, and the script is not 711 00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:37,975 a complete record of the film. 712 00:49:38,041 --> 00:49:40,777 There's stuff in the film which is not in the script, 713 00:49:40,844 --> 00:49:44,214 and the ending is absolutely one of those things. 714 00:49:44,314 --> 00:49:48,885 So when I saw at the screening, I saw the ending, 715 00:49:48,986 --> 00:49:50,687 I was quite astonished. 716 00:49:53,857 --> 00:49:57,060 I don't personally think it's the best 717 00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:58,895 possible ending for that film. 718 00:49:58,996 --> 00:50:01,565 Perhaps there could have been another ending. 719 00:50:01,665 --> 00:50:03,367 But there's wonderful things in the film, 720 00:50:03,467 --> 00:50:04,968 and it was a wonderful experience, 721 00:50:05,035 --> 00:50:11,408 and it was also a very vivid picture of London at that time. 722 00:50:11,508 --> 00:50:13,010 And the fact that it's by an Italian 723 00:50:13,076 --> 00:50:14,845 makes it even more interesting. 724 00:51:35,492 --> 00:51:37,227 Once I'd finished the film, 725 00:51:37,294 --> 00:51:39,763 I sort of was onto the next thing, 726 00:51:39,830 --> 00:51:43,100 and I did have a very exciting working life. 727 00:51:43,166 --> 00:51:45,168 And I'd sort of put it to bed. 728 00:51:45,268 --> 00:51:47,637 But you know these things, if they're good, 729 00:51:47,737 --> 00:51:49,339 they don't go away. 730 00:51:49,439 --> 00:51:51,241 And it's still here. 731 00:51:51,308 --> 00:51:52,409 Still here. 732 00:51:52,476 --> 00:51:55,479 Still being seen and being appreciated. 733 00:51:55,579 --> 00:51:59,182 So I just think back and think what a lucky... 734 00:51:59,282 --> 00:52:03,086 lucky I didn't say no, actually, because I nearly did. 735 00:52:03,153 --> 00:52:04,988 Because I thought I'm not a stupid model. 736 00:52:05,088 --> 00:52:07,457 I don't want to portray a stupid model. 737 00:52:07,524 --> 00:52:08,658 But there we go. 738 00:52:08,758 --> 00:52:10,961 Look at it. 739 00:52:11,027 --> 00:52:12,362 And yeah, very proud of it.