1
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,360
The first thing we look for

2
00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,000
is Rupert in the right mood for a
massage? What do you think?

3
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,960
Well, he's quiet.

4
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,720
And he seems quite relaxed.

5
00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:15,480
You OK?

6
00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,120
Well done.

7
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:18,520
It's just Rupert's leg.

8
00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,200
That's all it is, the same leg
he's had all the time.

9
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,160
Same little legs that kicked
you during pregnancy.

10
00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,160
OK. How's Rupert doing,
do you think?

11
00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,840
I think he's OK.
I think he's OK, too.

12
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:33,880
This is nice, Rupert.

13
00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:36,160
How are you doing?

14
00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:38,600
OK.

15
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,040
Now I've got my hands on him...

16
00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:48,960
..it's actually not as bad...

17
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,600
..as I thought it was going to be.

18
00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,800
I was spending time with women
dealing with mental illness

19
00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,640
brought on by having babies.

20
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:02,640
WHISPERING: Hello.

21
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,520
For all its joys, new motherhood
can be a time

22
00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,440
of extreme psychiatric difficulty.

23
00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,000
In homes and in specialised units,

24
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,680
I was with families and staff

25
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,280
working to find a way back
to recovery.

26
00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,760
WOMAN CRYING

27
00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,600
Exploring the wrenching challenges
of caring for two people

28
00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,040
in the most vulnerable states
of their lives.

29
00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,320
In Southeast London, I was on
the Mother and Baby Unit

30
00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,800
of Bethlem Hospital.

31
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:52,840
May I?

32
00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,240
Hi, Catherine.

33
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:56,520
How are you doing?

34
00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,920
Louis. Hello, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.

35
00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:00,120
This is Jake.

36
00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:01,480
Hi, Jake.

37
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,120
How are you? You going to
say hello? Oh, wow.

38
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,200
He's just excited about
life, isn't he?

39
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,440
He is.

40
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,360
May I? Yeah, of course.

41
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,040
He's just started sitting up,
as well. How old are you?

42
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,000
He's six months tomorrow.

43
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,520
Oh, wow.

44
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,240
It's your six months birthday.

45
00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:21,440
Let's say hi.

46
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,480
How are you doing?

47
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,000
O-oh.

48
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,760
So, how long have you been here?

49
00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:29,800
Four weeks now. Four weeks.

50
00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,160
That's quite a while.

51
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:32,320
It's very long.

52
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:33,680
This is the nursery.

53
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,320
Yes. You have a little quick
look in there,

54
00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,400
that's where the babies sleep.

55
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,880
So overnight, there'd be a
few babies in there? Yeah.

56
00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:43,400
Yeah, Jake sleeps in there still.

57
00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,440
And have they given you an idea of
how long you will be staying here?

58
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,080
No, I think they've added a couple
of weeks into my stay

59
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,280
from a couple of things I did last
week, so... Oh, really?

60
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,640
Are you under section?

61
00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:59,680
Yes. So you if you wanted to leave,
it would be quite difficult?

62
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,120
I couldn't, they'd restrain me.
Or if I managed to escape,

63
00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:03,760
the police would end up
bringing me back.

64
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,800
And as I understand it,
you're on a one-to-one right now.

65
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,800
So, you've got your...

66
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,720
How are you doing? What's your name?

67
00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,720
My name's Karen. Karen.

68
00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,200
Louis.

69
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:16,960
So basically, in shifts,

70
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,680
someone will always
be with Catherine? That's right.

71
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,520
24 hours a day basically, she's got
somebody outside her room at night

72
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,800
and following her around all day.

73
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,680
That's quite full-on.

74
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,760
Yeah, I tried to take an over...
I did take an overdose.

75
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:33,480
So, that's why.

76
00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:34,760
When was that?

77
00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,160
Last Wednesday.

78
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,560
So, the idea is to prevent you
doing anything...

79
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,920
..harmful to yourself?

80
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,960
Yes. May I? Yes.

81
00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,680
What happened?

82
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,480
Is that fun?

83
00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,440
A project coordinator at
a large business,

84
00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,520
Catherine had a history of eating
disorders and self-harm

85
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,240
as a teenager.

86
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:03,480
After Jake's birth,

87
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,240
she'd struggled with severe feelings
of anxiety and depression.

88
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,040
Five months later, a psychiatric
perinatal team

89
00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,040
found her a bed at Bethlem.

90
00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:13,400
I don't want to sound naive.

91
00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,000
I would never have known you were
unwell.

92
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,160
No. Are you just good at
hiding it, or...?

93
00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:20,960
Yeah, I'm very good at hiding it.

94
00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,280
I think that's what...
Like, with postnatal depression,

95
00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:25,600
you could stand next to someone
in the supermarket queue

96
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,600
and you'd never know that they might
go home and completely fall apart.

97
00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,880
Is that what it is,
postnatal depression, in your case?

98
00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,040
Or is it something else?

99
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,320
I think I've had a lot of issues
bubbling under the surface

100
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,520
for a long time,
for most of my life.

101
00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,000
And it just exacerbates that.

102
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,600
Having a baby, it's such a massive
change in your life, as well,

103
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,520
and no-one can prepare you
for that. Mm-hm.

104
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:48,840
And we had a termination last year,
about halfway through the pregnancy.

105
00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:52,640
We had a diagnosis of a
rare form of Down's syndrome.

106
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,720
So, we decided to terminate
the pregnancy

107
00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,400
and then we got pregnant with
Jake quite soon after,

108
00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,120
and I think that anxiety in
pregnancy was so high

109
00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,440
something might go wrong, we'd have
to make the same decision again.

110
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,760
Once Jake was here, it was just such
a shock to have a healthy, living

111
00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:09,720
baby and even when we got him home,

112
00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,120
it didn't feel real.

113
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,720
When I had to go in and give birth
to the last baby we had,

114
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,920
even though it was only 17 weeks,
it was still an actual real baby,

115
00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,640
with fingernails and toenails
and hair on his head

116
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,200
and Jake was born three weeks after
the first anniversary...

117
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,440
..of his birth, as well.
And he was a boy.

118
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,120
So everything just merges together
for both of them

119
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,440
and every time I think
I look at Jake, I'm thinking,

120
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,520
"This is what I can't do for
my last baby."

121
00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,440
He's a reminder of all that grief?

122
00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,720
Yeah. And I think that's why I just
struggled to bond with him, as well.

123
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,960
Just because I couldn't
differentiate between the two.

124
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:53,800
But do you enjoy cuddling him and
sort of nuzzling with him?

125
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,480
In all honesty, I don't.

126
00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,480
And that makes me so sad to
say that, as well.

127
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,880
I think that's one of the
main reasons I took an overdose,

128
00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:09,200
just trying to kill myself
cos I don't feel I can be his mum.

129
00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,880
Or he deserves better than me,
or someone else should be looking

130
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,280
after him that can love him.

131
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,960
That was his four month picture.

132
00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,760
Because he's a rainbow baby,

133
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,720
I decided to do a rainbow-themed
picture. Really?

134
00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:29,720
Every month until...
What's a rainbow baby?

135
00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,840
It's a baby born after a loss.

136
00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:34,480
So, it's like a
rainbow after the storm.

137
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,720
"Our beautiful rainbow is
five months old."

138
00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,280
"He has a smile for everyone and
is definitely a charmer.

139
00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:42,760
"Much like his dad."

140
00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,320
"Baby Jake. Cute baby.
Cute babies of Instagram."

141
00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,720
It's almost like I've got to pretend
that everything's OK.

142
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,160
That's role-playing a little bit.

143
00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,200
It almost feels like Instagram has
to portray a certain image.

144
00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,200
Mm-hm.

145
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:04,520
And I had to pretend everything's OK
and I can tell everyone I can cope.

146
00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,040
When the reality at home was
such a massively different story.

147
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,760
The Bethlem Mother and Baby Unit
is part of a network

148
00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,120
of similar facilities around the UK,

149
00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,640
dedicated to helping mums
experiencing serious mental illness.

150
00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,520
Mothers are admitted due to a risk
of doing harm to themselves

151
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,280
or to their babies,

152
00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,920
living together with their
babies on site.

153
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,240
Treatment takes the form
of medication,

154
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,200
along with therapy and classes
in parenting.

155
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,400
Do you think you know each
other a bit more now?

156
00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:45,600
I know him.

157
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,440
I don't know if he knows me.

158
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,560
The lead psychiatrist at
Bethlem is Dr Trudi Seneviratne.

159
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,360
We're incredibly lucky in Britain
because we will have 21

160
00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,480
Mother and Baby units in
this country.

161
00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,560
Actually, we know that it's good for
both of them, mother and baby,

162
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,040
to be treated together.

163
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,520
To sever that biological connection

164
00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,600
and psychological connection
would be a disaster

165
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,280
at this point in time.

166
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,600
How is it that
pregnancy or new motherhood

167
00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,720
can lead to mental illness?

168
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,040
Is it the physical trauma
of the birth?

169
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:21,320
Is it hormones?

170
00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,720
It's an absolute perfect storm
of all of those things.

171
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,000
It can be the most planned
or wanted baby,

172
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,520
but then you have
the most traumatic delivery.

173
00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:34,040
You haven't slept for weeks,
days leading up to the delivery,

174
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,080
and then you don't sleep afterwards.

175
00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,760
It's a very high-risk period
when it comes to suicide.

176
00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,600
At the worst end of the spectrum,
you have a dead mother

177
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,120
and a dead baby.
Doesn't get more awful than that.

178
00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:53,880
A new mum was on the unit.

179
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,680
The diagnosis was postpartum
psychosis.

180
00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:59,000
Hello.

181
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,160
Barbara, from Spain,
had come in two days earlier,

182
00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,600
sectioned by police after
displaying delusional thinking

183
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,680
and worrying, high-risk behaviour.

184
00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:12,120
As with many such cases, she
had no history of mental illness.

185
00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,320
She was with husband Jordi and
their daughter, Julia,

186
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,720
and was still experiencing
confused thoughts.

187
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,280
So, how did you come in?

188
00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,560
Can you tell me what happened?

189
00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:24,360
Because Jordi got a job.

190
00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:30,360
We... We decided to go to...

191
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:31,960
Sorry, I'm not feeling comfortable.

192
00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:33,240
No, don't worry.

193
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,520
Why don't I ask Jordi?
Jordi, what was it...

194
00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:36,960
Yeah, I'm just part of...

195
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,240
You're just listening.

196
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,960
Yeah, and now we're curious
because we've been talking other...

197
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:42,840
I don't want to interrupt you.

198
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:44,160
No, no, no, please stay.

199
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,000
Stay, I won't make you
uncomfortable.

200
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,080
You stay, you'll be fine.

201
00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,720
I want you, like, comfortable.

202
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,640
I'm very comfortable. I'm not.

203
00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,560
Oh, no. What can we do to
make you comfortable?

204
00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:57,080
I don't know.

205
00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,080
Don't make me feel part of...

206
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,040
Yeah. OK. Shall we not talk
to you too much? No.

207
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:04,240
OK. Jordi...

208
00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:05,680
If I want to... You'll chip in?

209
00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:07,200
Yeah. Thank you.

210
00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,040
Do you want to tell me, Jordi,
what happened?

211
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:14,280
How is it that
Barbara and Julia came to be here?

212
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,960
She's been going through
some stress,

213
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,320
or maybe there's been too
many worries

214
00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,520
which are part of maybe living
away from family.

215
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,200
And then last week, we had
my parents over, for example,

216
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:28,920
and that was an extra worry for her.

217
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,760
I think just all of these together,
we've reached this boiling point

218
00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,120
when she kind of...

219
00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,880
Her brain snap or kind of broke.

220
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:39,120
I would say...

221
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,520
I'm not making him comfortable.

222
00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,640
No, I'm fine. He's fine.

223
00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,920
I'm just trying to
remember exactly what happened,

224
00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,120
because I don't want to be
saying lies or anything like that.

225
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,440
So, she couldn't sleep,
and during the sleep,

226
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,040
she was just worrying about
all the things, everything again.

227
00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,360
That we were going to leave her.

228
00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,880
That we were going back to...

229
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,880
..we're going back to Spain without
them, and all this kind of things.

230
00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:10,680
And she then ran away from home and
she went to the train station.

231
00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:12,840
She said that she was going there
because she wanted

232
00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,640
to commit suicide or something.

233
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,200
She wanted to throw herself
into the train.

234
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,400
And sometimes, like now, she's also
having these kind of thoughts.

235
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,400
Well, I was going to ask.
So, how are you doing?

236
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:24,720
You OK?

237
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,760
Yeah, yeah, I'm OK.
Was it OK listening to that? Yeah.

238
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,200
Yeah? Do you remember that?

239
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,640
Yeah, I remember, more or less.
Yeah.

240
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:34,960
How are you...

241
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,800
I think he's
having the postpartum...

242
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:41,440
How is called?

243
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,480
Psychosis. Psychosis.

244
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,480
Who is? Jordi.

245
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,840
You think Jordi's
having postpartum psychosis?

246
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,120
Yeah.

247
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,560
It is part of all the confusions
that she is having.

248
00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:56,320
And, like, when we came here,
for example,

249
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,880
she was saying that she
wanted to leave

250
00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,280
and go home
because I was the mother.

251
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,560
So, it was me, the one that
had to stay here with the baby.

252
00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:07,800
Jordi was saying there was a time
when you were distressed

253
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,520
about his parents, and also that you
went down to the train station.

254
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,080
Do you remember that? Yeah.

255
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:14,880
And you do remember that you...

256
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,560
Was it your feeling then
that you wished to harm yourself?

257
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:21,720
Yeah. Because I'm not having
like a postpartum...

258
00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:24,160
Psychosis?

259
00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,360
I'm having, like, a depression of
all of my life.

260
00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:33,520
I had the thought that Jordi's
going to be the...

261
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,280
I don't know,
maybe the brother of Julia.

262
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,200
As well as the father?

263
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,280
And the father, yes.

264
00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,440
And then, for me,

265
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,520
I've been the mum of Jordi.

266
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:59,160
Have they given you any idea of what
to expect here in the next...

267
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,760
..few days or weeks or however
long it will be?

268
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,520
I don't think we have an expectation

269
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,120
of what we should be expecting,
apart from that she needs

270
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,440
to get some rest
and she will get better.

271
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,440
But we don't know, like, when.

272
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,840
I don't know...

273
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,160
..how to find the way that this
unit is helping me.

274
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,120
I haven't found anything.

275
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,400
An average stay at a mother and baby
unit is around ten weeks,

276
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:42,920
though this can vary widely.

277
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,640
Mums are discharged when staff
decide symptoms are under control,

278
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,520
or when the baby turns one.

279
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:51,720
How are you feeling?

280
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,160
I feel quite scared. Yeah.

281
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,600
In Melbury Lodge, a Mother and
Baby unit in Winchester,

282
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,440
I was with Lisa and her
psychiatrist, Dr Catherine Bundle.

283
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,880
Lisa was close to being discharged.

284
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,720
I don't want to be here,
but I am terrified.

285
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,640
Of going home? Yeah.

286
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,800
What's your biggest fear?

287
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,440
That I'm not going to
be good enough for my family. OK.

288
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,400
That I'm not going to get back to...

289
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:24,400
..me.

290
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,960
I think you have come a long way,
Lisa. I agree you're not 100% well,

291
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,560
and the rest of that journey needs
to happen at home.

292
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,720
But, you are so much better,
objectively... Yes.

293
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,280
..than you were when you came in.

294
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,000
Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh, yes.

295
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,040
Has she still got the baby smell,
do you think? Yeah.

296
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,680
Got the baby cheeks.

297
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,240
Oh, yeah,
she's got those baby cheeks.

298
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:48,840
Do you want a Mummy cuddle?

299
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,680
Lisa and Isabella, or Bizzy,
were the longest term

300
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,240
patients on the unit.

301
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,080
She'd had postnatal depression
with previous children,

302
00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,320
and had come to Melbury after
a series of psychotic episodes.

303
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,280
Is that your new buddy?

304
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,320
Have we made friends?
I think you have!

305
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,160
Can we talk about how
this all started?

306
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:14,240
Yeah.

307
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:21,880
After I had Isabella, I felt like
I was absolutely nailing it.

308
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,640
I was taking all the kids
out together.

309
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,720
When she was about three weeks old,

310
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,000
I took all three of them to the
cinema.

311
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,320
And I'm like, "Yeah, I've got this."

312
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:32,880
So, this sort of...

313
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,600
I mean, maybe, "Came out
of the blue", is a little strong,

314
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,640
but it was unprecedented?

315
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,400
Yeah, it was.

316
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:44,040
Isabella had been exclusively
breast-fed

317
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,160
and I had a hen do in Marbella.

318
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,400
She was being a real pickle with
taking a bottle.

319
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,360
So...

320
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,520
We almost had to go cold turkey.

321
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,440
And then when I came back,
the Wednesday night,

322
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,960
I called Andy and said, "You need to
come home from work early.

323
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,840
"I can't look after these children."

324
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:10,640
And then, from then on, I pretty
much stayed in bed for two weeks.

325
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,040
Well, so was it? There was...

326
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:14,600
So, the hen...

327
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:15,640
Do you think the hen...

328
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,960
You're not saying a hen do had
anything... It was the drop.

329
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,400
So, what they're saying
is that because I dramatically

330
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,240
stopped breast-feeding,
the drop in hormones...

331
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,160
..triggered psychosis.

332
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,600
Can you talk more about
that feeling of being overwhelmed

333
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:30,680
when you got back?

334
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,640
There was a moment you called Andy,
did that just creep up on you,

335
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,120
or was it...
It was instant.

336
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,040
I called him and said, "I can't
look after these children."

337
00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,880
Why did you say that? Because
I didn't want to be near them.

338
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,720
There was a complete
overwhelming of me.

339
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,680
I think there are lots of parents
who've had kids in the house

340
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,280
and they've called their other half
and said, "I can't deal with this."

341
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:52,880
This was different.

342
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:54,320
This was like...

343
00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,680
..almost like a total breakdown.

344
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,840
I couldn't speak,
I didn't wash for days.

345
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,440
I was eating dinner with
Andy and I...

346
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,440
I just said to him, "The house is
about to be invaded by clowns."

347
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,360
Clowns? Literally...? Clowns.

348
00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:15,480
Like, killer clowns.

349
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,280
Killer clowns were going
to come in,

350
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,880
and rip us apart,
destroy our house. Like, it...

351
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,480
And it was graphic,
what I could see.

352
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,080
At the time when this was happening,
it made sense to you,

353
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,040
the idea of the clowns?
It was real.

354
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:33,880
It felt real to you?
It was real. Yeah.

355
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,360
You're not in touch with why that
made sense to you, then?

356
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:41,480
No. You can see now
that that was ridiculous, right?

357
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,960
But I can still feel
the fear from it. Can you? Yes.

358
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,040
I'm interested in this thing
you said about,

359
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,640
it was almost instantaneous
when it happened.

360
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,400
In that moment, your life changed.

361
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:57,760
You had a life
of being mentally well, and then...

362
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,920
And then, it sounds like in one
moment, you went through something

363
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,400
that was transformative.

364
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,240
Something changed in that moment.

365
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,600
And...

366
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,360
..led me to the path where I am now.

367
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,960
The family home to which Lisa
will soon be discharged

368
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,280
is an hour's drive away in
Horsham, Sussex.

369
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,680
I'd arranged a visit with her
husband, Andy - an IT salesman.

370
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,160
We met when I was about 24,
I think Lisa was 21.

371
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:45,960
We fell for each other.

372
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,360
We split up, we got back together.

373
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:53,400
That's a nice one.

374
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,840
Lisa looks beautiful in that.

375
00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,600
Yeah.

376
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:00,680
Beautiful lady.

377
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,920
She said that when Isabella arrived,
for the first few months,

378
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,880
she felt completely on it.

379
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,360
She felt like she was in control,
as she described it.

380
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:16,720
You know, she was just nailing it.

381
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,120
Would you agree?

382
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:21,280
Yeah, I would.

383
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,480
I don't like using the phrase,
I think it's a bit silly

384
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,320
but SuperMum comes to mind
with Lisa.

385
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,920
She's the most caring,
motherly woman.

386
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,040
So, to suddenly see this behaviour,

387
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,720
I knew there was something
very, very...

388
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:35,960
..wrong.

389
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:37,920
One evening,

390
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,240
she phoned me up and said, "I'm
struggling. Can you come home?"

391
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,920
And I didn't really think anything
of it at that time.

392
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,560
You know, she's allowed to
be tired.

393
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,320
She was looking after three
children.

394
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,400
So, I just assumed she'd
had a tiring day.

395
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,560
She didn't seem completely
out of character, or...

396
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,200
No, no, she did just seem
like she was tired.

397
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,160
But over the next two weeks,

398
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:02,080
the decline in her mental health
I watched, was utterly alarming.

399
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,880
Watching her personality
disappear and...

400
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,480
..not really knowing what on
Earth to do about it.

401
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,720
How many months has it been
that she was...

402
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,000
..she was at the unit?

403
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,280
Three and a half.

404
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:18,720
Three and a half?

405
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,280
How have you found that?
Really hard.

406
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,480
I've tried to play mummy and daddy
to Amelia and Jake.

407
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,800
Obviously, Amelia being six,
that means she's aware.

408
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,000
What have you told her?
Mummy's unwell.

409
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,200
The illness is in her brain.

410
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,800
When she first went into hospital,
I said, "Have you noticed Mummy

411
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,760
"hasn't been fun Mummy
the last couple of weeks?"

412
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,520
She went, "Yeah." I said, "That's
why she's gone to hospital,

413
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,240
"because fun Mummy
isn't there at the moment,

414
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:48,000
"and they need to try and
help her to get back

415
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,920
"to who she normally is."

416
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,360
Have they given you...

417
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:55,760
..an indication of what to expect
in terms of recovery?

418
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,640
No, there's no timescale
associated to it,

419
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,680
but given the time and the
support she needs,

420
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,880
she will get back to who
she was beforehand.

421
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,560
The physical and emotional trauma
of giving birth and coping

422
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:28,120
with a newborn is, in many cases,
aggravated by a sense of unrealistic

423
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:31,240
expectations of what having
a baby is like.

424
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:37,000
The gap between how society tells
mums they should feel

425
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,600
and the reality that may
be more complicated.

426
00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:44,480
I'd been spending more time
with Catherine.

427
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,160
Hello! Hello!

428
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:48,680
Oh, Jake, you do stink.

429
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,240
What, has he done a poo?

430
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,520
Yeah. You know you have.

431
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,600
You can change him if you want.
I can take a little...

432
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,960
Are you sure you're ready
for that? Yeah!

433
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,640
Been a couple of years but the
skills are still there.

434
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,200
Oh, my goodness.

435
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,200
Get those wet wipes ready.

436
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,440
Here we go.

437
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:09,960
Oh, yeah.

438
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,040
I recognise that.

439
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,720
Not too bad.

440
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,000
At this age, it's not really poo.
It's sort of...

441
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,960
There's been some awful ones.

442
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,240
Once you give him food, it's...
Oh, it stinks.

443
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,840
It made me gag the other day. I take
that back, it is a bit like poo.

444
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,920
It's not brown, though.
It's mainly milk.

445
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,320
It's like a mustard. Yeah.

446
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,960
Yeah. Yeah, I know what I'm doing.

447
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,040
Yeah. Willy's pointing down.

448
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:39,280
OK.

449
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,160
Catherine was off her one-to-one.

450
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,000
She'd also received a new diagnosis

451
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,720
of emotionally unstable
personality disorder.

452
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,240
A set of traits, often involving
impulsive behaviour and self-harm,

453
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,040
that can't easily be treated
with medication.

454
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,120
A few days earlier staff
had filmed her playing with Jake

455
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:03,080
to build her confidence
in parenting.

456
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,440
The developmental psychologist Robin
Schacht was offering her feedback.

457
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,280
Well, the first time I met
with you, I said,

458
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,360
"I think you have really
good instincts."

459
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:13,120
It just seems that...

460
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:15,240
As you said, they can't come out.

461
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,080
So, what I wanted to point out here
were a couple of moments

462
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,520
where I thought you were...

463
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:20,560
..doing it.

464
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,600
So, I think what he actually
really enjoyed here

465
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,480
was getting
the eye contact with you.

466
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,800
You kind of got down in his line of
vision and connected with him.

467
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:37,280
It wasn't the toy.

468
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,640
It was you that brought the smile.

469
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,080
That's quite sweet. Yeah.

470
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,240
It makes smile watching, actually.

471
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,840
Can I chip in a tiny bit? Yeah.

472
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,920
We've spoken quite a bit,
Catherine and I.

473
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,680
And what's always struck me
is that she...

474
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,120
That you are really good with
Jake, basically.

475
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:01,760
And that you know what to do.

476
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,560
And you know how to look after him.

477
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,960
But what's always struck me,
as well, is that you've spoken

478
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,680
about not feeling connected.

479
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,240
So in a way, it doesn't surprise me
that Catherine's got the skills.

480
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,160
What I'm wondering is, how do...?

481
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,360
Does this help?

482
00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:20,520
Can we help with respect
to the feelings?

483
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,120
Does that make sense? Yeah.

484
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:27,000
I've never had any doubt that
practically, I can care for Jake.

485
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,800
It's just the
emotional connection, really.

486
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,960
So you've got this fear
that you need to grow the feelings

487
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,200
to make them enough to get well?

488
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,040
Yeah, that's quite an
accurate description, actually.

489
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,840
And hopefully that's what
this will help.

490
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,280
And spending more time with him
and learning to love him, I think.

491
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,560
There's a part of me that
always wants to say,

492
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,480
"Well, I think you do love him."

493
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:53,560
I think you...

494
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,800
I see that you love him.

495
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,080
And yet, if you don't feel that,
then that's different.

496
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,760
So, it's complicated, isn't it?

497
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,640
I don't want to sort of invalidate
what you're saying.

498
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,920
I think what I'm expecting
is a rush of love.

499
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,800
And I had that for the last
baby,

500
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,320
when we saw him
there was a rush of love.

501
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:13,560
The one that died?

502
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,400
When Jake was born, there wasn't
that feeling there at all,

503
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,800
because there's still an
overwhelming feeling that something

504
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,680
is going to go wrong,
because it did last time.

505
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,200
So part of it is self-protection?
Maybe.

506
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,640
The feeling of connecting
would then mean

507
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,480
a risk of you feeling awful,

508
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,200
if and when something went wrong.

509
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,960
It might be that my baby died
before I could make the decision,

510
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,960
and that's like the worst thing that
could possibly happen to someone.

511
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,280
If I didn't get attached to Jake,

512
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,160
and the worst thing possibly
happened to him,

513
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:45,600
then I won't be hurt.

514
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,840
You said you felt a rush
of love for the other baby.

515
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,320
The other baby,

516
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,920
was he dead when you saw him?

517
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,080
Yeah, he was effectively stillborn.
Yeah.

518
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,800
I mean, that's one of the
saddest things I could imagine

519
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,840
and the feeling of love
would be in a way...

520
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,440
..just very uncomplicated.

521
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,840
In the sense that it's a sense of
grief

522
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,200
mixed with love, which is very
powerful.

523
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,200
And you've got all these feelings
for a baby

524
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,720
that you haven't met
properly or you don't know.

525
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,160
Right, and there's strange feelings
of sort of regret

526
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,480
and maybe, probably,
a feeling of guilt.

527
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,240
Guilt. Massive guilt.

528
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,080
And there's remorse.

529
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,240
And remorse.

530
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,320
And then when you see Jake,
it's different.

531
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,160
You're not going to feel that.

532
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,840
It's a different feeling
when Jake comes along.

533
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,080
And there's still guilt.

534
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,880
In that I don't feel the way I felt
for the last baby,

535
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,000
and that is horrible,

536
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,800
because Jake wouldn't be here

537
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,880
without having to make the decision
we did either.

538
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,520
And then Jake was such a wanted
and planned-for baby.

539
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:10,600
And yet the feelings for him
are completely different.

540
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,840
But I want,
I do want to feel something for him,

541
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,560
and I do want that rush of love

542
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,440
and I want that overwhelming urge
to protect him.

543
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,480
So that I don't...

544
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,760
So I can say that I will do
anything for him,

545
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,480
like most people would say that
they'd do anything for their kids.

546
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,240
And by the time I leave here,
I hope that will happen.

547
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:49,360
Listening to Catherine describe
her difficulty feeling a connection

548
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:52,040
with Jake was sad and strange.

549
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,680
Part of me questioned
if they were her real feelings.

550
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,960
But I also wondered about my urge
not to believe that a woman

551
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,640
could be indifferent
about her child.

552
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,520
When people say they don't feel
anything for their baby,

553
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:09,960
it is absolutely real,

554
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,200
because these things are on a
spectrum, aren't they?

555
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,040
And even some resentment, I suppose.

556
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,400
Resentment, yeah.
Feeling nothing.

557
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,800
Almost hating the baby, wishing the
baby were not there.

558
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,160
Dead, sometimes.

559
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,000
It's because people hide
what they're really feeling.

560
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,600
It's meant to be a happy time,
isn't it?

561
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,640
The business of having a baby is
supposed to be a really happy time,

562
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,400
so, because of that,

563
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,200
people put on all sorts of masks to
hide what's really going on.

564
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,120
Where Catherine was struggling
with the sense of not being bonded,

565
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,400
with other mums the connection is
there.

566
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:54,200
But feelings of depression
and anxiety exist alongside it.

567
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:55,720
Come on.

568
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:56,760
Ah!

569
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,200
So, next Thursday, we're going home.

570
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,600
What's her name? Poppy.

571
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:02,920
Poppy.

572
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,160
25-year-old Marie had given birth
to Poppy five weeks earlier.

573
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,800
She'd had no issues
with her feelings for Poppy.

574
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,600
Nevertheless, she'd experienced
suicidal impulses

575
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,680
and admitted herself to the mother
and baby unit.

576
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,480
So we've been here about two weeks.
Yep.

577
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,480
What brought you in here?

578
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,480
Basically, I had a very, like,
traumatic birth,

579
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,400
so she's nearly five
weeks in June.

580
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,600
And I think the
first week after she was born,

581
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,080
I was in AandE four times, saying,

582
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,840
"Please help me, because
I'm going to do something."

583
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,200
And I just was really low and felt

584
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,720
like I couldn't look after her
and stuff, so...

585
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,520
Really? So when you say traumatic,
you don't mean...

586
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:39,880
I thought you meant physically.

587
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,720
It was, yeah.
Physically what happened?

588
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,480
Physically and mentally.
I was in labour for like 36 hours.

589
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,000
Really? She had to be delivered by
forceps, as well.

590
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,840
So I very nearly ended up having a
C-section,

591
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:49,920
which I didn't want to have.

592
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,280
I didn't want to have pain
relief.

593
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,080
In the end I had an epidural,

594
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,800
so everything
I didn't want to happen happened.

595
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,600
So, that was upsetting. Yeah.

596
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,080
And then that had
an effect on your mental wellbeing.

597
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:03,640
Yeah. ..which felt like what?

598
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,040
How did your experience that?

599
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,600
Just... I felt really low in myself,
I felt like I wasn't able to

600
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,520
cope with her, and then
I was having suicidal thoughts,

601
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,400
thoughts about self-harm
and stuff like that.

602
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:13,440
Really?

603
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:14,560
Yeah.

604
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,600
One thing that's been explained
to me is the idea that, you know,

605
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:22,400
having a baby is a huge physical
change, and that that brings with it

606
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,840
emotional and hormonal changes that
can be a lot to deal with.

607
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,000
The birth brought up a lot of stuff
that had happened in the past

608
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,600
as well and that was kind of
quite traumatic.

609
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,720
Stuff that hadn't been dealt
with properly before.

610
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,080
What kind of thing? Erm...

611
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,520
A couple of years ago
I was assaulted,

612
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,080
and...

613
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,040
..obviously, giving birth, there's
a lot of people around...

614
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,920
..that kind of part that you don't
really want people to be around.

615
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,240
Yeah.

616
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,120
And so it kind of
awakened feelings of...

617
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,320
The sort that I end up having, like,
flashbacks and nightmares and stuff,

618
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,000
about which I hadn't had.

619
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,600
That was nearly three years
ago and I hadn't had any of that

620
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:07,840
for a little while.

621
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,760
And now it's all started again,
which then obviously doesn't make me

622
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,200
feel great after that either.

623
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,600
And the good part, though, is that
it sounds like your relationship

624
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,360
with Poppy's strong.

625
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,480
Yeah.

626
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,120
I've never had a problem
bonding with her. Mm.

627
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,640
And she is the most perfect, the
most amazing thing that I've ever

628
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,840
done in my life.

629
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,840
Which is why it makes this
so much harder,

630
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,560
because this isn't the way
it was supposed to be.

631
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,640
With her partner James visiting,
Marie had her weekly catch-up

632
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,360
with the clinical team.

633
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,640
The first topic was a recent
home leave she'd had to cut short

634
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,200
due to a panic attack.

635
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,080
So I'm just interested
in what the crisis was, actually,

636
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,040
when you went back home for the day?

637
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:55,640
It was nightmares, wasn't it?

638
00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,600
Yeah, Marie had some pretty vivid
nightmares about our relationship.

639
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:01,640
OK.

640
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,960
And I think it really unsettled her.
It wasn't just that.

641
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:05,000
Was it not?

642
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,320
No. Oh. That's what you told...

643
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,080
So do you want to tell us
what was...

644
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,360
Everything that had happened
before that as well.

645
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,880
Oh. Yeah.

646
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,520
It's not... Yeah.

647
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,160
Can you tell us?

648
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,080
About being attacked and stuff.

649
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,120
OK.

650
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,760
HE SIGHS
You should've told me.

651
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,480
Didn't want you to get upset.

652
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,240
Well, look, one of the things
we know is that sometimes trauma

653
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,800
from the past come back
when...when women have babies.

654
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:38,920
Yeah?

655
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,120
So it's just... So I guess
it's sort of working through that

656
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,840
and working out what you need
at this point in time.

657
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,560
Just thinking, Louis, is there
anything that you wanted to ask

658
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,000
at this stage? Erm...

659
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,600
I was just struck earlier on
when you were talking about

660
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,680
your nightmares, and then you'd said
that you didn't tell James

661
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,480
because you didn't want
to upset him.

662
00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:59,760
Yeah.

663
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,480
See, I don't understand, cos you
told me the one about

664
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,760
the relationship.

665
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,320
Because I didn't want you to
think... I know how you feel about

666
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,160
what happened, and I didn't
want you to think it's still...

667
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:12,840
Basically...

668
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,960
..the night it happened
I was already at home.

669
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,520
Marie sent me a message saying...

670
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,680
.."Can you come meet me
from the station?"

671
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:29,280
And if I'd have been three
minutes faster, I'd have caught him

672
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,320
before he could've hurt her.

673
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,840
So it is actually my fault...
It isn't.

674
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,120
..that this happened.
It isn't your fault.

675
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,360
Don't say it was your fault because
it isn't your fault.

676
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:41,720
I should've stopped him.

677
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,680
Don't get upset, because it's
not your fault.

678
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,000
And you couldn't have
stopped him because he was

679
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,200
going to do it anyway.

680
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,040
I should've broken his legs.

681
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:13,760
I'm sorry.

682
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,880
Marie and James were a striking
example of the way in which a mental

683
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,720
health crisis ripples out, affecting
relationships and families.

684
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,840
Recovery too is a joint enterprise,

685
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,440
requiring understanding and support
from loved ones.

686
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,160
Hello.

687
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:50,880
Can we come in?

688
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,400
I was in Horsham, Sussex.

689
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,040
Ready for a cuddle?

690
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,840
Oh! Oh, look...

691
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,280
Two weeks earlier Lisa had been
discharged from Melbury Lodge,

692
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,280
though she was still getting
weekly visits

693
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,000
from the perinatal team.

694
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,640
She was now living back at home with
Bizzy and her two other children,

695
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,520
six-year-old Amelia
and three-year-old Jake.

696
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,200
LAUGHTER

697
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:16,920
Look at that!

698
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,240
Mummy, I've done a big poo!

699
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:23,760
You've done a big poo?!

700
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,080
Oh, my goodness!

701
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,360
Look at the size of that bad boy!

702
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,640
Has he done a big poo?

703
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,440
Can I see Jake's poo?

704
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,680
Look. Wow, look at that -
it's like a man poo.

705
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,120
Well done, Jake.

706
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,440
Since returning home, Lisa had been
relying on round-the-clock support

707
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,440
from family members.

708
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,080
Today her parents were on hand.

709
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,960
She was also suffering
the side effects of high doses

710
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,120
of anti-anxiety medication.

711
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,120
So how was it coming home?

712
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:58,600
It's been quite a...

713
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,720
..tricky transformation, or...

714
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:05,040
Transition? Transition's the word,
yeah.

715
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,080
Up and down?

716
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,600
Yeah, much more downs than ups.

717
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,280
There's been some days where
I've not been able to get out of bed

718
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:13,720
at all, and...

719
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:15,080
Oh, really? Erm...

720
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,120
Because of what?

721
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:18,320
Tiredness?

722
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,040
Like a severe... Well, yeah,
I'm constantly tired but, like,

723
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:27,760
this severe anxiety - the anxiety
continues to be the main problem.

724
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,920
And...

725
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,880
You go in and play in
the other room, darling.

726
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,440
No...

727
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,680
I want to see Isabella.

728
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:37,800
Erm...

729
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:45,080
We can wait, if you'd prefer to wait
and talk about this.

730
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,640
Yeah.

731
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,400
Do you understand why Mummy
was in hospital?

732
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,200
Why was Mummy in hospital?

733
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:52,720
Because you weren't well.

734
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:54,960
Do you know why I wasn't well?

735
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,880
No, you don't really
understand it, do you?

736
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,520
You just missed Mummy.

737
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,040
What's it been like having
Mummy home?

738
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,080
Good.

739
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,640
BABY CRIES

740
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,480
All right!

741
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,960
It's coming, my little love.

742
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,000
SHE BABBLES

743
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,400
You want to sit there?

744
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,160
Yeah. What do you want?

745
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:28,240
Only ham.

746
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:29,720
Well, take the cheese out then.

747
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,560
BABY SHOUTS
I know.

748
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,280
Life's like that.

749
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,080
Eat it properly.

750
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,160
Life's like that sometimes...
Nicely!

751
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,360
Trap the car, trap the car...
Trap the car, trap the car!

752
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:44,400
Collapse.

753
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,560
Straight arm. Here it comes.

754
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,160
Yay!

755
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:10,280
How are you doing?

756
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:11,880
You look tired.

757
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,120
Yeah, I'm quite tired...
You're exhausted.

758
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:15,760
Yeah. Quite exhausted.

759
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,080
I just feel really flat,
just nothing.

760
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,880
But this is the time where I'd
be screwed if I didn't have support,

761
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,320
and I get a lot of anxiety,
fluttery feelings.

762
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:28,600
You're getting that now?

763
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,080
Yeah.

764
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,880
And I should be taking her places.

765
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,040
I should be getting her out
for walks.

766
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,120
I should be playing with her more.

767
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,000
I'm not...

768
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,160
I'm not.

769
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,560
I feel like I'm failing
and I'm failing my family.

770
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,760
Well, it's one step at a time,
isn't it?

771
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,480
You're still...you're still
in the early stages of recovery.

772
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,240
Yeah.

773
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:56,560
Oh!

774
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:04,720
It's just I see the children
as, like, a complete...

775
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:05,960
Complete hard work.

776
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,720
You don't feel you're getting
pleasure in them the way

777
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:10,800
you used to? Is that what it is?

778
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,480
I mean, we've all felt that
at times. Yeah, yeah.

779
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,600
Yeah. Sometimes it just feels
like... Mega hard work.

780
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:18,880
Mm. Yeah.

781
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:27,360
Thank you.

782
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,440
CHILDREN SHOUT

783
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,600
Hello, Mummy!

784
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:02,560
Hi, Daddy! Daddy!

785
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:06,920
How you doing, mate, you all right?

786
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,400
Oh...

787
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,560
I left Lisa with a renewed sense
of the challenges that lay ahead,

788
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,960
marvelling at the unfairness
of what she was being put through

789
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,800
and the reserves of strength
she was having to draw on

790
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,400
just to keep going.

791
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,080
It's a painful truth of recovery
that it often involves hiccups

792
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,400
and back steps.

793
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,920
At Bethlem, making the process
even more complicated was

794
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:44,600
an outbreak of the norovirus.

795
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,600
Many of the mothers and babies
were confined to their rooms

796
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,280
to contain the illness.

797
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,760
Catherine's baby Jake had been
taken home to recover,

798
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,320
which was contributing
to her feeling unsettled.

799
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,560
I joined her and her partner Chris
at their weekly clinical review.

800
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,080
The week hasn't been very good,
because Jake hasn't been here.

801
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,920
So my anxiety is just through
the roof at the minute.

802
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,160
I'm just trying to...
Because he's not here?

803
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,680
Yeah. It's just because he's not
here and then being with him,

804
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,440
reunited with him, makes me a bit
anxious again, and it feels like

805
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:19,680
it's starting again, really.

806
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:20,720
Yeah.

807
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:22,880
I think what would be nice
over this week is to get Jake

808
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,760
back in, get some normality.

809
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,520
Yeah. Just some interactions,
have some fun with him.

810
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,880
Well, you have been depressed, and
your Mirtazapine could go up a bit.

811
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,120
So I think we should increase that.
Millie, what do you reckon?

812
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,960
Increase it to 30, I would say,
because then you still have

813
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,360
the sedating effects at that dose,
but also a good effect on mood.

814
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,680
And let's see if we can get
Jake in today.

815
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:45,760
Yes, that'd be very good.

816
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:50,080
Did that go from all right for you?

817
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,280
Yeah. Still a bit weird.
It's always weird.

818
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,320
What was the weird part?

819
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,000
This all seems a bit...I don't know,

820
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,920
like no-one really knows what
they're doing.

821
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,640
I think they know what
they're doing.

822
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,840
But objectively you've been doing
really well, in the sense that

823
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,160
you went home, didn't you,
and that went smoothly?

824
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,240
It didn't feel like it.
But you don't...

825
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:10,720
But it did, but it didn't
feel like it.

826
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:12,160
Why not?

827
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,120
To me, it felt really hard.

828
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,920
On the outside of it, it looked
like it went fantastically,

829
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,000
compared to how other events
have gone.

830
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,480
It's more about your perfection of
the idea of what you think

831
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:23,760
it should be.

832
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,480
What I've heard from Catherine,
over the sort of weeks,

833
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,240
is that she's a bit of
a perfectionist.

834
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,080
There is... That is a way of
describing it, absolutely.

835
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,520
You're very lucky you've got
Catherine with no make-up on.

836
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,720
I know. That's unusual for us.

837
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,120
Later that day, Catherine was
granted some unsupervised leave

838
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,600
around the grounds.

839
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,640
She failed to return on time.

840
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,480
Police, please.

841
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,280
It's a concern about
an AWOL patient.

842
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,560
Staff were in crisis mode,
attempting to track her down.

843
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,240
Hello, Catherine. It's Debbie
from the Mother and Baby Unit here.

844
00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:05,320
I'm wondering If you could give us
a call, please,

845
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:06,920
when you get this message.

846
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:08,600
I returned to the unit.

847
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,840
With Chris, she's said that she's
communicated with him that she wants

848
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,560
to die, saying, "I'm gone.
I love you but I want to die."

849
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,280
That's the last communication
he's had with her, so we need to get

850
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:21,800
back onto the police straight away.

851
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,800
PHONE RINGS

852
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,360
Hi, Mother and Baby Unit.
Nicola speaking.

853
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,560
Hiya, Chris.

854
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,000
Right, OK.

855
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,840
What exactly has she said?

856
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,560
Yeah, we're literally on the phone
to the police now -

857
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,600
we're trying to get through,
so we'll get them to do that.

858
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,320
What did Chris say on the phone?

859
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,920
That she's basically said,
"That's it, it's done",

860
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,840
and she's taken 65 tablets.

861
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:49,880
And he has no clue where she is?

862
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:50,920
No.

863
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,840
Has she done this before? Yeah...

864
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,480
Yes, yes, there's a history
of it.

865
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,360
Yeah, yeah. The reason she's here is
because of her relationship

866
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:00,400
with her baby.

867
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:03,200
Yeah.

868
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,720
Her family believe if she's saying
she's taken an overdose

869
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:07,400
then she has taken an overdose.

870
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,240
Ten hours after she'd gone
AWOL, at about 3:50am,

871
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:21,000
Catherine was found by police
in a nearby hotel,

872
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,360
drunk, having consumed an overdose.

873
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,240
She was taken to AandE.

874
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,960
So, Hannah is with her
at the minute.

875
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,480
Catherine is very regretful of her
actions from last night,

876
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,120
very worried. Yeah.

877
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,680
We haven't had any further update
but she is awake and up-to-date

878
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,880
and talking with staff
about how she's feeling.

879
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,080
She will likely be in hospital
for a few days.

880
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,480
She's on IV fluids currently.

881
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,720
While Catherine remained in
hospital, psychiatric staff would

882
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:52,880
be keeping an eye on her
round the clock.

883
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:56,720
Hiya.

884
00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:58,080
Buenos dias.

885
00:44:58,080 --> 00:44:59,840
Buenos dias. Que tal?

886
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,240
Meanwhile, elsewhere on the unit,
Barbara, the mum from Spain

887
00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:06,640
who'd been experiencing postpartum
psychosis had made

888
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,800
a marked improvement.

889
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,600
So, look, you are our Christmas
miracle, basically.

890
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:13,840
Another one.

891
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:14,960
How are you feeling?

892
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,440
Yeah, much better.

893
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:17,520
Yeah.

894
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,280
I've been seeing,
like, a good improvement, yeah.

895
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,720
From my point of view I feel like...

896
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:28,440
Yeah, now I'm aware of everything,
I'm back.

897
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:33,840
Yeah, I would say I'm back to where
I was before, more or less 100%.

898
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,400
Nearly there, nearly there.

899
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,440
You're nearly there, aren't you?

900
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:38,560
Yeah.

901
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,160
It was really nice for you to
start talking a little bit

902
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,600
about the whole experience
that you'd had of becoming a mum,

903
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,920
and everyone had been really busy
working and focusing

904
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,680
on their own lives, and then
suddenly this baby had arrived and

905
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,840
perhaps both parents didn't feel
quite prepared for that.

906
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,480
You're aware that you don't tend
to talk about your feelings so much

907
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,440
and that you were thinking about
whether the two of you could benefit

908
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,760
from just talking a little bit more
as a couple about, I guess,

909
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:06,200
about being a new family.

910
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,920
It was less than four weeks ago,
wasn't it, that you were at sort of

911
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,480
the depths of your illness,
and you were at Balham station,

912
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,760
and to be that profoundly ill, and
then now...

913
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,520
..from what I can tell,
so, so much better.

914
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,880
Yeah. It's kind of exceptional.

915
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,120
At least it seems from the outside
that it's completely fine

916
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,920
from when she wakes up
until she goes to sleep.

917
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,080
She's been taking care of Julia day
and night for almost a week now.

918
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,000
So...

919
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,440
At least she's on the right track,
I would say.

920
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,400
In cases like Barbara's,
where there's no previous history

921
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,960
of mental illness,
postpartum psychosis

922
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,920
nearly always leads
to complete recovery.

923
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,120
The only significant cause
of reoccurrence is coming

924
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,880
off medication
or having another baby.

925
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,600
Conditions like anxiety
and personality disorders tend

926
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,240
to be more deep seated
and recovery more difficult.

927
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,280
He seems happy.

928
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,520
He does like
being a Christmas pudding!

929
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,520
There we go.

930
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,960
Catherine was back, having been
discharged after four days

931
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,360
in AandE following her overdose.

932
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,440
Are you a Christmas pudding now?

933
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,520
Yeah, I want
a piece of Christmas pudding.

934
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,400
We'll be the Christmas pudding
guys! Look at you standing up.

935
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,200
All right, hang on,
let's see how this goes.

936
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,760
No, no, no. Just careful.

937
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,600
Puddings, puddings! Jake!
Paparazzi! Puddings!

938
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,640
How are you doing? Better. Mm.

939
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,040
I mean, I'm out of bed
and I'm dressed, so...! You are.

940
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:41,960
You had quite a time of it? Yeah.

941
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,920
We were worried about you.

942
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,960
Yeah. It wasn't...

943
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,240
I don't even know what happened. I
was like, suicidal anyway, I think.

944
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:51,840
I was quite on the edge.

945
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,400
Well, I'd seen you that morning.
Is that day clear to you?

946
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,720
We had the ward round,
do you remember? Yeah.

947
00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:00,520
Although I'd been on leave
that weekend, everyone said,

948
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,920
"Oh, it's gone really well",
because there's no drama,

949
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,000
I didn't feel like it had
gone very well.

950
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,880
I think, after a drink,
I just thought,

951
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,120
this is my opportunity,
whilst I was out.

952
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,760
Opportunity to do what?
To kill myself, really.

953
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,200
I'd say. Yeah.

954
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,120
This guy's getting restless.

955
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:28,560
Come on.

956
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,200
What is it? Are you tired
or are you just being silly billy?

957
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,200
Are you being a silly billy?

958
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:36,680
You're making some funny noises.

959
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,720
So, basically, erm...

960
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:45,560
..having done it
you had second thoughts? Yeah.

961
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,560
I think once you've done it
you kind of think,

962
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,040
oh, crap - like, what have I done?

963
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,720
Cos you never really know if
that's definitely the end.

964
00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:57,000
And then afterwards
when it doesn't work, you think,

965
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:58,800
oh, you've failed again.

966
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:02,400
Especially when you're lying
in a bed in AandE then...

967
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,040
..I was quite ill.

968
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,840
It sounds like, I mean, at the risk
of oversimplifying it a bit,

969
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,400
there's all sorts of ambivalence,
isn't there?

970
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,400
Sometimes it
just feels so horribly overwhelming,

971
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,480
the whole thing of just being
a mum and the responsibility

972
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,880
that you have of raising a little
human with their own issues.

973
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,960
I don't know, maybe there's...
Sometimes I...

974
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:25,560
..I can see where I want to be.

975
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,920
I can see where I want to be at home
and how I want to be.

976
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:31,520
But it's like a weird mental block
of actually getting to that point.

977
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:38,080
How are you doing, Jake?

978
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,000
Jake?

979
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,480
What? You all right?

980
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,520
I do think, cos it's
the first five months of his life,

981
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,960
I just pretended everything was OK
and tried to manage at home.

982
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,920
And if I admitted earlier
that things weren't right,

983
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,920
and I had come here
when he was a lot smaller,

984
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,280
perhaps things would've been
a lot more different now.

985
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,360
And I think that the love...

986
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,600
..or let's say the connection...

987
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:08,760
..that there is there,

988
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,280
sometimes you struggle to feel it,
to see it,

989
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,440
that it...

990
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,920
..that it is there. And with time
you will come to...

991
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,640
..see it more clearly.

992
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:23,800
Yeah.

993
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,960
Or I'm not allowing myself
to feel it, maybe.

994
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,640
I think that's half of it as well.

995
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,600
Catherine's expression of feelings
was encouraging to hear.

996
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,680
At the same time I couldn't help
recalling it was just a week earlier

997
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:45,240
that she'd attempted
to take her life.

998
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,200
Recovery may be in part a process
of not pushing too fast

999
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,680
and recognising
how much is realistic.

1000
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,960
Hi, guys! Hi, Jake.
How are you?

1001
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,520
Don't you know there's
no such thing as a gruffalo?

1002
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,520
It was now two months since Lisa
had been at home,

1003
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,880
and six months since her
first symptoms.

1004
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,560
I love you.
Do you want me to take that?

1005
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,600
Her continuing feelings of anxiety
meant she'd largely been confined

1006
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,400
to the house.

1007
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,480
Today would be the first day
of her doing the school pick-up.

1008
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,800
Her best friend Charlie was
coming along to offer support.

1009
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,040
What's he doing?
He's getting closer.

1010
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,320
He's doing something with
that camera thing up there.

1011
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,520
That construction thing.

1012
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,160
But he might actually
do something to us?

1013
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,480
No, he's absolutely fine.
We're nearly past him.

1014
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:39,360
No, I don't like... I know.

1015
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:43,280
You all right? You're all right, OK?
I promise you, you're fine.

1016
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,800
Do you want to stop for a minute?
Yeah. Yeah?

1017
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,760
I don't know where the children are.
They're up with Louis.

1018
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,520
She just needs five minutes,
sweetheart. OK?

1019
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,760
I know I'm ridiculous.

1020
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,480
And that is the worst thing,
because I know I'm ridiculous.

1021
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,240
But you're not,
and you've handled it really well.

1022
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,160
Lisa and Andy were still
relying on family support

1023
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:06,960
throughout the week.

1024
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:12,080
She was also having regular visits
from her local mental health team.

1025
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,800
While Lisa's in-laws
did the night-time routine,

1026
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:16,880
I had a moment with her and Andy.

1027
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,560
Lisa had mentioned
there were a tough couple of weeks,

1028
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,080
sort of over the holidays,

1029
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:26,040
where she was not in a good place,
mentally,

1030
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,640
wishing to do herself harm,
among other things.

1031
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:35,400
Yeah. Throughout all of this
I'd always said I'm not suicidal.

1032
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,400
Yeah, but then when you did feel it,
you did.

1033
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,640
When I did feel it I was like...

1034
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,920
It was - I can't remember exactly
where we were or how it happened now

1035
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:47,480
but you literally turned to me
and said, "That's it.
I now feel that way."

1036
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,720
And I just thought, oh. What way?

1037
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:52,160
That she wants to end herself.

1038
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,440
Really? Yeah. You're also aware
you have a husband who loves you.

1039
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,120
You've got three children
who love you and need you.

1040
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,120
Erm, that these are things
that you need to consider.

1041
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,040
Was that in your head?
No, not at all.

1042
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,440
Going through that, I understand
why people kill themselves,

1043
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,520
whereas I've called people
selfish...

1044
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:12,800
..I, erm...

1045
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,680
..I totally get it.

1046
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:16,120
But some - but I was... But why?

1047
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,680
Is it just an overwhelming
irrational...? It is,

1048
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:21,640
almost like a craving, desire,

1049
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,480
this strong overwhelming desire

1050
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,920
that didn't leave me
for nearly three weeks.

1051
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,160
I was going to say, it was
a period of two or three weeks.

1052
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,120
Is it still reasonable to expect
a full recovery?

1053
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,880
Yep. That's still
basically what they're saying?
What they're going for, yeah.

1054
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,480
I'd be lying if I said
I didn't have moments of thought

1055
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,280
where I think, crikey, will it?

1056
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,920
It's just a case of managing
how we try and get you back there,

1057
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:50,040
because, as you say...
Well, I don't think I'm ever going
to be the same Lisa,

1058
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,720
because I don't think
I can be after this.

1059
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:54,760
I mean, you'll be
a different person.

1060
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,720
You're someone who's
lived through a serious...

1061
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:00,960
..sort of emotional
or mental episode.

1062
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,320
Do you think you'll be
reduced in some way?

1063
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:05,240
Is that what you mean?
Or are you just...?

1064
00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:07,400
Time's creeping on, and...

1065
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:11,560
..I'm still bonkers.

1066
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,120
It's an illness
and it means that you're not...

1067
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:22,680
..not where you were.

1068
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:30,240
I just want to wake up and feel...

1069
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:35,640
..not scared of everything and...

1070
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,120
This is really crap.

1071
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,000
Like, really crap.

1072
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,920
Lisa's continuing issues
were a reminder that the road back

1073
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,600
to health could be long
and difficult.

1074
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,200
And yet it was also true that even
in the most trying cases

1075
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:11,360
there were reasons for hope.

1076
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:16,080
People often come in and ask me,
"How long is it going to take?"

1077
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,880
I always say, you know,
"I haven't got a magic wand here."

1078
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,720
These are not quick win conditions.

1079
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:26,600
It's also important to say
that actually even when mothers do

1080
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,240
have mental health problems
they do their utmost to make sure

1081
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:32,040
the child is OK.

1082
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,320
So just because they've had a mental
health problem does not mean

1083
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,800
that they will be an adverse
effect on the child.

1084
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,800
Although we're dealing with the most
severe mental health problems

1085
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,240
all the time,
and the most severe end of risk,

1086
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:49,560
you know, it is joyous
to see new babies

1087
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:54,000
arriving all the time and it's, you
know, utterly joyous to see people

1088
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,240
getting better and going home.

1089
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,600
There had been some good news.

1090
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,240
Look out! Trouble. The...

1091
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:10,120
BABY CRIES
Escape attempt!

1092
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,440
Prisoner has been apprehended.

1093
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,320
How are you doing? Good to see you.

1094
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,680
Catherine was back living at home
with Chris and Jake,

1095
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,200
having made a remarkable
improvement.

1096
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,440
So are you living here now?
Yes.

1097
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,880
What do you think...

1098
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,000
..was the turning point?

1099
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,680
They did increase the medication.
That did help massively.

1100
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:33,760
Really? Anti-depressants. Yeah.

1101
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,560
And I think there has to come
a point where you have
to change your thinking.

1102
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,320
A lot of the work they've done
in there is, you think, oh,
it's never going to change,

1103
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,000
it's never going to help. I don't
know why they're doing this.

1104
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,160
And sometimes before you know it,
like, things have changed.

1105
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:49,160
Does that make sense to you as well,
Chris?

1106
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,640
I mean, what does it look
like from where you're sitting?

1107
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,880
We're clearly in a much
healthier place

1108
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,680
in terms of, erm, coping

1109
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,280
and the tools and the support
that we've been given.

1110
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,800
It is one day at a time, but it is
clearly night and day difference.

1111
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,640
Absolutely.

1112
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,240
You know, a lot of what we talked
about from the beginning was,

1113
00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:13,840
you know, connection. I mean,
how do you feel about that now?

1114
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,280
With Jake? Mm.

1115
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:19,240
Absolutely fantastic now. Really?
Now I have really good relationship.

1116
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,480
Yeah. Isn't that something?

1117
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,440
Now, I think coming through this,

1118
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:26,760
I can actually say,
"I love my baby."

1119
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:40,600
Catherine's apparent recovery
was heartening to see,

1120
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,560
a testament to the possibility
of change.

1121
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,080
Aw, that's nice.

1122
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,960
In speaking to all the mums I'd met,
I'd seen the most extreme versions

1123
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,000
of feelings familiar
to many new parents,

1124
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,640
but that had tipped over
into acute mental health crises.

1125
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:07,920
Making it worse was a weight
of expectation about motherhood.

1126
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:11,120
But I'd also been struck
by the courage of mums opening up

1127
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,840
about their worst fears
and anxieties,

1128
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:18,560
doing their best for their children
in situations of the
utmost adversity.