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Hello, this is Jim Marigold.

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I'm the co-writer, director,
and one of the producers of this movie

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and I'm gonna be talking to you for as
long as I can hold up as the movie plays.

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As the film starts and you go through
these logos and for early titles,

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we're playing Woody Guthrie's "So Long,
It's Been Good To Know You,"

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and there's a reason.

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And in many ways, I think this is a film
about letting go or saying goodbye.

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And the movie also ends
with the same song.

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When I first sat down, as I was writing,

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with Bob Dylan to talk about the movie,

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Bob turned to me very early
in the conversation,

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he said, "Jim, what is this movie about?"

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And I realized he was asking me
to kind of tell him,

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in a very short nugget,
what this movie was about.

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And what came out of me was,

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"This is a movie about
a young man in Minnesota

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who was choking to death, suffocating,

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and decided to leave everything behind--
his family, his friends--

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and go to a new place,

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and start again with
a few dollars in his pocket."

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And he does, he invents himself anew.

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He starts a new life, becomes wildly
successful, blossoms creatively,

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and then starts suffocating again,
feeling claustrophobic.

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And again, leaves.

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So it's a story about two leavings.

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One that is his arrival
at the front of the movie,

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and one that is his departure at the end.

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[indistinct chatter]

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I think to begin with,
just to deal with what's on the screen,

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we're looking at the recreation
of New York City in 1961.

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Particularly Greenwich Village
and particularly MacDougal Street.

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And my team, Phedon Papamichael,
my wonderful DP and longtime DP,

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and Franςois Audouy,
who has also been with me for years,

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and the whole team--
Arianne Phillips on costume.

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I could just list names

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but what I wanna say is that all these
people who have worked together,

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and with me many times before, worked to
try and create a kind of verisimilitude--

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uh, truthfulness,
to our recreation of this place.

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We didn't want it to be dreamy,
we didn't want it to be false.

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We just wanted to somehow relate
what was magical about New York,

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and particularly Downtown New York
in the Village at this moment,

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which was a kind of creative hub
or ground zero of what was happening,

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not just in folk music but also in art,

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in music on the folk side
but also music on the jazz side.

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Just around the corner
from MacDougal Street,

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you could easily find, you know, Coltrane
or Miles Davis or Thelonious Monk playing.

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This was a really-- a vital area,

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partly because the rents were cheaper
and artists could afford to live there

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and gathered to kind of explore
where art was going--

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music, art, jazz-- in an age of modernity
and in the postwar age.

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Part of what I'm trying to do, both in the
script that I worked on with Jay Cocks

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and in the direction
at the beginning of the movie,

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is to not make the movie only about Bob.

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And I'll get to why a little later,

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but that we're kind of creating what I
call kind of a round-robin structure

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of introducing characters discreetly

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and then finding their way into the story,
into Bob's story,

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so that you're kind of
not only articulating

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this mysterious young man
who's come into town

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but also the slightly less mysterious or
more easily readable characters

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who are going to surround him
and have interactions with him

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for the next two hours and 15 minutes.

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Pete Seeger is a remarkable character

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and Edward Norton is phenomenal,
I thought, in this role

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and took it on in every way.

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And one of the things
that is so delightful about Seeger

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is that in the face of even legal troubles
and being, you know, blacklisted

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for a period early on in his life
when he was with the Weavers,

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there was a kind of unstoppable enthusiasm
and optimism to him.

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[reporter 1] <i>How do you feel
about the judgement?</i>

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[Pete] <i>We didn't get the result
that we thought was right...</i>

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People, when they see the movie,
kind of think

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of what Edward's doing
as kind of Mr. Rogers,

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but Pete Seeger was Mr. Rogers
before Mr. Rogers.

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This kind of wonderful,
gentle, kind-- singing songs.

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You can't dampen him.

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<i>♪ This land is my land ♪</i>

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<i>♪ From California' ♪</i>

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He is really a determined,
optimistic figure

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although of course,
in the course of events of this story,

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he will find himself dampened.

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<i>♪ This land was made for you and me ♪</i>

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So then we come back again
to the Bob story.

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Timmy's character has
hardly spoken much of a word

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except asking for directions.

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And we're approaching what is,

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I thought of from the very first time I
was working on the script with Jay,

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this was such a pivotal scene.

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This opening scene in which Timmy finds
his hero ailing in the hospital

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with Huntington's Disease.

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He's traveled cross-country ostensibly

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with no other purpose
than to kind of get here

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and get to this guy,

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and has a song written to sing for him.

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We shot this sequence at this hospital.

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Although it actually
wasn't a hospital. This was a--

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I think, at this point, is owned by the
school system of New Jersey.

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We shot this sequence fairly early on.

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And it's a pretty pivotal scene,

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not only because of the things I said--

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it kind of launches the story,

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it gets Bob in contact and interaction
with Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie--

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but it also is a kind of
proof of concept to the audience.

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What I mean by that is,

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I always knew as we worked on the script

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that this scene required Bob to both feel
like he's still a very young man

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and at the beginning,
the cusp of his talent,

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but also a scene in which he demonstrates,

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when he sings the song
for Pete and Woody, talent.

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He has to actually demonstrate talent.

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In order for the other actors to look at
him and go, "Holy shit, this guy's good,"

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he's gonna have to actually
demonstrate a kind of passion

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and/or proficiency
that makes you stop and think.

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<i>Come on over, then.</i>

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[Mangold] Although Timmy and I didn't
discuss that kind of pressure,

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he's a brilliant actor and a really sharp
young man and he knew what he had to do.

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<i>I'm Pete, by the way.</i>

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[Mangold]
He was very insistent, at this point,

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that he wanted to be able to do this live
and in the room with the actors...

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<i>Something come after that?</i>

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[Mangold] ...even if that meant
singing the song 170 times

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when I was shooting Edward or shooting
Scoot McNairy who's playing Woody.

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He just wanted to play it live
and in the room.

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<i>I sing and I... I play,</i>

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<i>and I write songs, actually,
a couple of friends of mine,</i>

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<i>Paul and John, out in Minneapolis.</i>

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<i>Midwestern boy?</i>

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<i>Yeah, and they showed me some of</i>

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<i>Woody's records, uh, Folkway ones...</i>

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[Mangold] Jay had written
a version of the scene in his first draft

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which was really good
and I just couldn't stop expanding on it

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or trying to dig further into it.

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The initial scene, and this kind of
standoff between these three characters,

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was so iconic,
and beautifully written by Jay.

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<i>He said you was in the hospital, so...
I hitched myself here.</i>

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<i>Why is that?</i>

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[Mangold] And I felt

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it kind of is this triangle which will be
omnipresent throughout the movie,

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this young, new member of folk music,

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or potential member of folk music,

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who ends up becoming its de facto leader
and superstar in Bob Dylan.

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The reigning king and icon
of American folk music, Woody Guthrie,

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who is sick and can no longer
really perform his duties

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and, in a Shakespearean sense,
his kind of first lieutenant, Pete Seeger,

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who is leading the folk movement

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into one of its most prosperous
and popular times...

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<i>It's mostly family now, though.</i>

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<i>Uh, Woody wants to hear something.</i>

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[Mangold] ...but also trying to stay
connected with Woody at the same time.

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<i>You shy?</i>

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<i>Not usually.</i>

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[Mangold] One of the things when I direct,

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you're always trying to find,
is what the scene is about,

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but also not play it too hard,
play against it.

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Like, one of the things I love
is that in this scene

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and the way Timmy handles it,
and it's part in the writing,

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is that Bob Dylan has traveled 4,000 miles
or 3,000 miles for this moment,

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with his guitar,
with lyrics written, with a song in hand,

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to sing for Woody.

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But when he gets here
and they actually ask him to sing,

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of course, he looks
shell-shocked and nervous.

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And those contradictions
are what makes us human and believable.

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<i>Uh...</i>

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<i>I wrote for you.</i>

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[I folk music playing,
Bob Dylan "Song to Woody"]

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<i>♪ I'm out here a thousand
miles from my home ♪</i>

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<i>♪ I'm walkin' a road
other men hale gone down ♪”</i>

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[Mangold] Since this scene
was shot very early in the movie,

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I'm also learning about
how to shoot the movie.

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You know, you come with a plan,

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but then you see
what your actors are doing

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and the plan gets modified.

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Modified by what's amazing
that's going on in front of the lens

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that you shouldn't ignore
just because you had a plan

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that might have not taken into account

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some of the discoveries
the actors are making.

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And here, one of the things
that I really realized

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was just how mesmerizing
I felt Timmy was in this role.

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And therefore, I realized this movie was
going to be a lot about watching him sing.

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And as long as I made sure he kept
the subtext of the scene alive--

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what I mean by that is not just the song
but also the drama of the scene alive

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while he was singing, then I thought it
could hold our attention,

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it wouldn't seem just like a concert.

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And what you see here,

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what Timmy is doing so masterfully,
honestly, is singing this song

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just well enough that he feels
like a young, talented man,

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but not--
he needs to give himself room to grow,

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even in his musical abilities.

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But also, he's playing, if you see it,

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the intensity and the pressure
of the situation.

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If you look at his eyes,

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he's trying to push through
the nervousness and the anxiety

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and how pivotal this moment is
in his life.

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He's a nobody,

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and he's sitting in the presence of
two extreme somebodies

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who he idolizes.

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And this is a moment in his life

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where it all comes down to
what he's doing on this stool,

199
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at this bedside, on this night.

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-[♪ music stops]
-[Woody bangs table]

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And that is the drama that he's playing

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that allows you to feel the relief
at the end of the song.

203
00:12:02,763 --> 00:12:05,641
Because it's not just about a song,
it's a scene.

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<i>Do you mind?</i>

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00:12:11,605 --> 00:12:12,731
<i>Oh, no.</i>

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00:12:12,814 --> 00:12:14,900
[radio announcer]
<i>Suspected of collaborating. ..</i>

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00:12:14,983 --> 00:12:19,404
[Mangold] This conversation between Edward
and Timmy's characters, Bob and Pete,

208
00:12:19,488 --> 00:12:23,075
is really the briefest introduction

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to what will be a bigger tension
later in the film...

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[Little Richard]
<i>♪ I been fold, baby, you been bold... ♪</i>

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00:12:27,579 --> 00:12:29,331
<i>That's the flip side on "Long Tall Sally."</i>

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[Mangold] ...which is essentially
Bob's love and adoration

213
00:12:32,626 --> 00:12:36,255
and attraction and knowledge
of music beyond folk.

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00:12:36,338 --> 00:12:38,632
He draws no boundaries.

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00:12:38,715 --> 00:12:42,177
And I got this-- You can easily get this
from reading about Bob,

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00:12:42,261 --> 00:12:44,930
but you also get it from talking to Bob.

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He just loves all music,
all kinds of music,

218
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and knows anything
and everything about all music

219
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and, frankly, movies and all sorts of art.

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00:12:55,148 --> 00:12:58,443
And Bob is a kind of sponge.

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00:12:58,527 --> 00:13:01,822
And the difference, then,
between these characters,

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00:13:01,905 --> 00:13:04,157
even in this little scene
that we're trying to highlight,

223
00:13:04,241 --> 00:13:09,621
is that Pete is kind of focused 100%
on advancing the agenda

224
00:13:09,705 --> 00:13:12,541
and the fortunes of the folk music scene...

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<i>It can get the job done
without the frills.</i>

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[Mangold] ...and Timmy's character is not.

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He just loves good music, folk or not.

228
00:13:22,134 --> 00:13:24,094
And he loves great folk music.

229
00:13:24,177 --> 00:13:26,555
But what he seems to love most of all,

230
00:13:26,638 --> 00:13:30,142
and be the thing that makes Bob decide
whether he likes something or not,

231
00:13:30,225 --> 00:13:32,769
is its soul, its authenticity.

232
00:13:34,688 --> 00:13:39,651
In any movie, whether you're making a
fantasy film or a science-fiction film,

233
00:13:39,735 --> 00:13:42,112
or even a film based on reality,

234
00:13:42,195 --> 00:13:45,115
you know, people use this term
"world building."

235
00:13:45,198 --> 00:13:46,700
It exists in every kind of movie.

236
00:13:46,783 --> 00:13:48,618
I've made all these kinds of movies,
and I can tell you,

237
00:13:48,702 --> 00:13:52,080
even in a movie like this,
we're doing world building here.

238
00:13:52,164 --> 00:13:54,458
We're showing you MacDougal Street,

239
00:13:54,541 --> 00:13:57,753
we're showing you
the legal pressures on Pete Seeger.

240
00:13:57,836 --> 00:14:01,840
We're introducing this young man to all
these spaces that he's never seen before.

241
00:14:01,923 --> 00:14:03,925
The magic of New York City downtown,

242
00:14:04,009 --> 00:14:07,179
the courthouses, the clubs, the bars,

243
00:14:07,262 --> 00:14:12,768
the hospital where this aging king,
Woody Guthrie, is dying.

244
00:14:12,851 --> 00:14:16,605
And now here,
this kind of wonderful, warm world

245
00:14:16,688 --> 00:14:21,068
of Pete Seeger,
Toshi, his wife, and his children,

246
00:14:21,151 --> 00:14:24,780
in which they live a kind of
almost Amish existence

247
00:14:24,863 --> 00:14:27,532
in a house that just got running water

248
00:14:27,616 --> 00:14:33,205
and still has a kind of
combo-outhouse-toilet situation in it

249
00:14:33,288 --> 00:14:35,874
which became the butt of a joke
that we just played.

250
00:14:35,957 --> 00:14:37,709
<i>He met one of his heroes tonight.</i>

251
00:14:37,793 --> 00:14:39,753
<i>Not me, Woody.</i>

252
00:14:39,836 --> 00:14:43,590
But there is a kind of beauty
that you feel in this house,

253
00:14:43,673 --> 00:14:46,218
a kind of warmth and love.

254
00:14:46,301 --> 00:14:48,345
<i>He played us a hell of a song.</i>

255
00:14:49,137 --> 00:14:50,347
<i>Here's your pancake.</i>

256
00:14:51,431 --> 00:14:52,557
[Tin ya] <i>Thank you.</i>

257
00:14:58,772 --> 00:15:02,401
<i>♪ If you're travelin' to
the north country fair ♪</i>

258
00:15:05,737 --> 00:15:08,407
<i>♪ Where the winds hit heavy ♪</i>

259
00:15:08,490 --> 00:15:11,827
[Mangold] This was also a scene we did
fairly early in the schedule

260
00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:17,165
in which Edward and Eriko Hatsune
and the children

261
00:15:17,249 --> 00:15:18,834
all are kind of just operating

262
00:15:18,917 --> 00:15:22,129
around Timmy singing
"Girl from the North Country."

263
00:15:23,296 --> 00:15:25,090
Again, it's a scene in which--

264
00:15:25,173 --> 00:15:30,178
It's not that Timmy's rendition
of the song is spectacular.

265
00:15:30,262 --> 00:15:33,265
But what I'm always focused on
when making movies about artists--

266
00:15:33,348 --> 00:15:35,016
and I've done several,

267
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:38,770
'cause I even consider <i>Ford v Ferrari</i>
a movie about artists--

268
00:15:38,854 --> 00:15:45,360
is that what I love watching is,
how does the art arrive, how is it born?

269
00:15:45,444 --> 00:15:50,699
And how fragile it is
when it's first offered.

270
00:15:50,782 --> 00:15:57,622
And how important it is that the people in
orbit around this artist

271
00:15:57,706 --> 00:16:02,127
recognize the value of this very fragile
thing as it's being born.

272
00:16:03,253 --> 00:16:05,881
Because so often, for any artist,

273
00:16:05,964 --> 00:16:08,800
especially young ones, the work--

274
00:16:08,884 --> 00:16:13,680
when they're onto something, they can be
easily discouraged and give up.

275
00:16:13,763 --> 00:16:17,642
And the blossoming of a character
and an artist like Bob Dylan

276
00:16:17,726 --> 00:16:20,145
is, of course, about his brilliance

277
00:16:20,228 --> 00:16:22,689
but also about those around him

278
00:16:22,772 --> 00:16:26,401
that recognized and saw the seeds
of what was in him

279
00:16:26,485 --> 00:16:30,906
and gave him the space
and the support to blossom.

280
00:16:32,574 --> 00:16:34,284
<i>♪ A-wim-a-weh, a-wim-a-weh, a-wim-a-weh ♪</i>

281
00:16:34,367 --> 00:16:36,077
<i>♪ Hey-up-oh-a-wim-a-weh ♪</i>

282
00:16:36,161 --> 00:16:38,121
<i>♪ A-wim-a-weh, a-wim-a-weh, a-wim-a-weh ♪</i>

283
00:16:38,205 --> 00:16:40,081
<i>♪ A-wim-a-weh, a-wim-a-weh ♪</i>

284
00:16:40,165 --> 00:16:43,293
[Mangold] So, in terms of
our world building, if you will,

285
00:16:43,376 --> 00:16:44,961
this is another chance to establish,

286
00:16:45,045 --> 00:16:46,838
"What is folk music at this time?"

287
00:16:46,922 --> 00:16:51,092
And what Pete's singing, one of his
classic arrangements of "Wimoweh,"

288
00:16:51,176 --> 00:16:53,678
is kind of one of his concert staples,

289
00:16:53,762 --> 00:16:56,389
and getting the audience to sing along,

290
00:16:56,473 --> 00:17:01,269
and the idea of a concert as just a single
soul alone with one instrument,

291
00:17:01,353 --> 00:17:02,687
these are things--

292
00:17:02,771 --> 00:17:04,856
I realize I'm making
a movie for an audience

293
00:17:04,940 --> 00:17:08,818
that may not have any real experience with
what folk music was in the '60s,

294
00:17:08,902 --> 00:17:10,654
or folk music at all.

295
00:17:10,737 --> 00:17:13,448
So these ideas about what this music is,

296
00:17:13,532 --> 00:17:18,578
its simplicity and its reliance
on just the authenticity of the voice

297
00:17:18,662 --> 00:17:21,665
and the beauty and power of the song,

298
00:17:21,748 --> 00:17:26,212
is something I'm feeling
I have to kind of educate the audience on

299
00:17:26,294 --> 00:17:28,588
or give them a chance to understand.

300
00:17:29,631 --> 00:17:30,632
[man 1] <i>Joan! Have a great show!</i>

301
00:17:30,715 --> 00:17:32,759
[woman] <i>Miss Baez!</i>

302
00:17:32,842 --> 00:17:33,885
[Mangold] And with this shot,

303
00:17:33,969 --> 00:17:36,888
we introduce another, you know,
spoke of the wheel, if you will,

304
00:17:36,972 --> 00:17:38,890
in this round-robin of the movie,

305
00:17:38,974 --> 00:17:41,810
which is Monica Barbaro playing Joan Baez,

306
00:17:41,893 --> 00:17:43,603
and the character of Joan Baez.

307
00:17:44,229 --> 00:17:45,397
[mumbles]

308
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,482
[Mangold] So again,
we're leaving our hero,

309
00:17:47,566 --> 00:17:49,818
like we did to find Pete
in the courthouse,

310
00:17:49,901 --> 00:17:52,737
finding Joan, introducing her
and Albert Grossman--

311
00:17:52,821 --> 00:17:55,532
Danny Fogler doing
wonderful work as Al Grossman--

312
00:17:55,615 --> 00:17:56,783
<i>Five minutes, Joan.</i>

313
00:17:56,866 --> 00:17:59,077
<i>Bob Shelton's back, he's at the bar.</i>

314
00:18:00,161 --> 00:18:01,663
<i>So is John Hammond.</i>

315
00:18:01,746 --> 00:18:04,541
[Mangold] And giving us a chance to get to
know each of these people

316
00:18:04,624 --> 00:18:07,127
and understand some of
what's going on for them,

317
00:18:07,210 --> 00:18:11,464
before then connecting them
back into the orbit of Bob's character.

318
00:18:11,548 --> 00:18:13,174
<i>Tony Bennett,</i>

319
00:18:13,258 --> 00:18:15,802
<i>Johnny Mathis, Doris Day, Miles Davis.</i>

320
00:18:15,885 --> 00:18:19,556
<i>They have everyone
except their folk singer.</i>

321
00:18:19,639 --> 00:18:21,558
<i>-Albert.
-Mm-hmm.</i>

322
00:18:21,641 --> 00:18:22,726
<i>Please leave.</i>

323
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,228
[Albert inhales sharply]

324
00:18:25,312 --> 00:18:28,398
<i>Other girls strum, Tito, they smile.</i>

325
00:18:28,481 --> 00:18:29,858
<i>Not Joanie.</i>

326
00:18:29,941 --> 00:18:32,611
<i>She acts depressed, looks at her shoes,</i>

327
00:18:32,694 --> 00:18:34,029
<i>makes men crazy.</i>

328
00:18:34,112 --> 00:18:35,280
[applauding in distance]

329
00:18:35,363 --> 00:18:36,698
[footsteps receding]

330
00:18:36,781 --> 00:18:39,034
[I folk music plays, Joan Baez
"House Of The Rising Sun"]

331
00:18:39,117 --> 00:18:42,621
[Mangold] These performances by all my
actors of the music in the movie--

332
00:18:42,704 --> 00:18:46,750
it was really important to me
that they do them,

333
00:18:46,833 --> 00:18:48,293
that they do these performances,

334
00:18:48,376 --> 00:18:51,546
and, in many cases, live and on set.

335
00:18:51,630 --> 00:18:54,758
And you might wonder why,

336
00:18:54,841 --> 00:18:58,178
and, for me, it's just,
"What am I after with this movie?"

337
00:18:58,261 --> 00:19:01,681
I'm after capturing these people
and making you feel you know them.

338
00:19:01,765 --> 00:19:06,436
And they play such incredible,
simple, exposed music.

339
00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:11,858
What I mean by "exposed" is there's no
drums or bass or keyboards or synth.

340
00:19:11,941 --> 00:19:14,861
There's nothing to kind of cover,
there's no production,

341
00:19:14,944 --> 00:19:18,865
there's no Auto-Tune,
there's no elaborate mixing.

342
00:19:18,948 --> 00:19:21,993
It's just the human voice and a guitar.

343
00:19:24,412 --> 00:19:25,997
I don't think I could make a movie--

344
00:19:26,081 --> 00:19:27,791
I don't know how,
someone else might be able to--

345
00:19:27,874 --> 00:19:33,129
about people who do something
that is so stripped-down and raw

346
00:19:33,213 --> 00:19:36,591
and then apply a production technique
to replicating it

347
00:19:36,675 --> 00:19:38,385
that is the opposite,

348
00:19:38,468 --> 00:19:42,639
with earwigs in their ears and playback
systems and them lip-synching,

349
00:19:42,722 --> 00:19:48,728
all of which would be exactly opposite the
constructs and philosophy of folk music.

350
00:19:48,812 --> 00:19:52,941
<i>♪ The Rising Sun ♪</i>

351
00:19:55,318 --> 00:19:59,572
[Mangold] So again, here we have a song
but it's not just a song.

352
00:19:59,656 --> 00:20:01,449
There are dramatic things
happening, right?

353
00:20:01,533 --> 00:20:03,576
We are introducing Bob in the room.

354
00:20:03,660 --> 00:20:05,787
We're introducing Bob as looking at her,

355
00:20:05,870 --> 00:20:09,582
and his gaze is one
of desire and fascination.

356
00:20:11,126 --> 00:20:14,796
And we're seeing that Joan feels it,
even on stage.

357
00:20:14,879 --> 00:20:17,298
We're also introducing

358
00:20:17,382 --> 00:20:21,761
the kind of nightingale-like perfection
of Joan's voice,

359
00:20:21,845 --> 00:20:23,847
which, of course, is different than Bob.

360
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:27,600
Bob's edgy, a little sloppy,
a little lifelike,

361
00:20:27,684 --> 00:20:29,144
his voice is craggy,

362
00:20:29,227 --> 00:20:31,980
he doesn't always hit the note
and he doesn't care.

363
00:20:32,063 --> 00:20:34,733
And Joan represents
a kind of technical perfection,

364
00:20:34,816 --> 00:20:37,736
both on guitar and in her voice,

365
00:20:37,819 --> 00:20:40,780
that is a stark contrast to him,
and a wonderful contrast.

366
00:20:41,406 --> 00:20:44,242
[audience cheering]

367
00:20:44,325 --> 00:20:47,537
The challenge for Monica,
playing this role, of course,

368
00:20:47,620 --> 00:20:49,414
is that she's got to play someone

369
00:20:49,497 --> 00:20:52,250
with a kind of legendary voice.

370
00:20:52,333 --> 00:20:54,544
And Monica had never really sung before,

371
00:20:54,627 --> 00:20:56,337
except, you know, as we all might,

372
00:20:56,421 --> 00:20:58,923
driving the car with our radio,
or in the shower.

373
00:20:59,007 --> 00:21:00,341
<i>Hey, this is my friend, Bobby.</i>

374
00:21:00,425 --> 00:21:01,968
<i>-Hey.
-Oh.</i>

375
00:21:02,051 --> 00:21:05,555
You know, part of being
a movie director is being a gambler

376
00:21:05,638 --> 00:21:11,019
and feeling like, "Well, if I back myself
in a corner, I'll find a way out later."

377
00:21:11,102 --> 00:21:16,149
And my gamble on this movie
was just believing that Timmy,

378
00:21:16,232 --> 00:21:20,153
Monica, Edward, Boyd playing Johnny Cash,

379
00:21:20,236 --> 00:21:23,156
would all find a way to do it.

380
00:21:23,239 --> 00:21:25,742
And if they couldn't,
I'd figure something out.

381
00:21:27,410 --> 00:21:30,747
These are all extremely
gifted actors, and they did.

382
00:21:30,830 --> 00:21:33,249
You know, sometimes it's good
in the position I'm in

383
00:21:33,333 --> 00:21:35,502
to just set a high bar

384
00:21:35,585 --> 00:21:38,254
and see if the actors can fulfill it.

385
00:21:38,338 --> 00:21:41,758
And I'm so fortunate to be working

386
00:21:41,841 --> 00:21:44,511
with some of the best actors in the world.

387
00:21:44,594 --> 00:21:48,640
And so then, of course,
I should be asking a lot of them,

388
00:21:48,723 --> 00:21:50,642
because they are really good.

389
00:21:50,725 --> 00:21:52,560
<i>This young man, he's been
playing around town a biz'</i>

390
00:21:52,644 --> 00:21:55,980
<i>but I thought it was high time
he took the stage at Folk City.</i>

391
00:21:56,064 --> 00:21:58,733
<i>So, I want you to give
a warm welcome to Bob Dylan.</i>

392
00:21:58,817 --> 00:22:00,693
[all applauding]

393
00:22:00,777 --> 00:22:02,278
[Bob] <i>All right. Cheers.</i>

394
00:22:02,362 --> 00:22:05,240
<i>Oh, man. All right, thanks, folks.</i>

395
00:22:05,323 --> 00:22:08,034
<i>Thanks, Pete. That's, uh...</i>

396
00:22:08,117 --> 00:22:10,954
[Mangold] Part of what happened as I was
working on the script for this movie

397
00:22:11,037 --> 00:22:15,959
is you start arranging
the Bob Dylan song catalog

398
00:22:16,042 --> 00:22:19,337
in the order that these songs popped up.

399
00:22:19,420 --> 00:22:21,589
And what's really interesting

400
00:22:21,673 --> 00:22:25,885
is how autobiographical
these songs become...

401
00:22:28,388 --> 00:22:30,974
in ways-- You know, people talk
about Bob being an enigma

402
00:22:31,057 --> 00:22:32,684
or not revealing much about himself,

403
00:22:32,767 --> 00:22:35,436
but honestly,
when you listen to this music

404
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,398
and place it in his life at the time,

405
00:22:38,481 --> 00:22:42,193
and understand what these songs
were popping out of,

406
00:22:42,277 --> 00:22:46,781
you suddenly understand
a kind of emotional relevance they have

407
00:22:46,865 --> 00:22:47,782
to who he is.

408
00:22:47,866 --> 00:22:51,327
<i>I hope you think it's good.
It's gotta be good for somebody.</i>

409
00:22:51,411 --> 00:22:54,080
"I was young when I left home."

410
00:22:54,163 --> 00:22:57,458
It couldn't be a clearer declaration

411
00:22:57,542 --> 00:23:00,169
for this 19-year-old with no money

412
00:23:00,253 --> 00:23:05,800
who's come to New York with no real plan
on how to make it in the world

413
00:23:05,884 --> 00:23:09,178
except hoping that
what he can do on a guitar

414
00:23:09,262 --> 00:23:13,725
and with his lyrics and with his singing
will somehow provide for him.

415
00:23:13,808 --> 00:23:16,019
<i>♪ No, I never wrote a letter ♪</i>

416
00:23:16,102 --> 00:23:17,395
<i>♪ To my home ♪</i>

417
00:23:18,688 --> 00:23:20,607
I was talking during a previous beat,

418
00:23:20,690 --> 00:23:21,900
but it's one of my favorite moments

419
00:23:21,983 --> 00:23:23,735
where Bob goes, you know,

420
00:23:23,818 --> 00:23:27,280
"Ladies and gentlemen, Joan Baez.
She's pretty good."

421
00:23:27,363 --> 00:23:29,991
And then he adds, "She's pretty."

422
00:23:30,074 --> 00:23:32,911
And that kind of stops everything 'cause
it's a little inappropriate.

423
00:23:32,994 --> 00:23:35,830
And then he corrects himself
and goes, "She sings pretty."

424
00:23:35,914 --> 00:23:39,667
And then he corrects himself again and
goes, "Maybe too pretty."

425
00:23:39,751 --> 00:23:43,379
And I love the way
our actors play that beat.

426
00:23:43,463 --> 00:23:46,341
And I also think
it's an early establishment

427
00:23:46,424 --> 00:23:50,303
of Bob's kind of awkward, provocative way

428
00:23:50,386 --> 00:23:53,514
of letting people know he likes them

429
00:23:53,598 --> 00:23:56,893
is a little bit by sticking them

430
00:23:56,976 --> 00:23:59,771
and kind of making people
a little bit uncomfortable

431
00:23:59,854 --> 00:24:02,065
within, essentially, his honesty.

432
00:24:04,108 --> 00:24:05,151
<i>♪ Thisaway ♪</i>

433
00:24:05,234 --> 00:24:06,945
<i>-He's very good, isn't he?
-Yeah.</i>

434
00:24:07,737 --> 00:24:09,030
<i>He's my client.</i>

435
00:24:09,113 --> 00:24:10,573
<i>♪ Lord, Lord, Lord.”</i>

436
00:24:11,908 --> 00:24:15,328
<i>♪ And I can't go home this away ♪</i>

437
00:24:17,205 --> 00:24:18,831
[playing harmonica]

438
00:24:18,915 --> 00:24:20,583
[Mangold] This club, Gerde's Folk City,

439
00:24:20,667 --> 00:24:23,670
is one of many
we re-created from the time,

440
00:24:23,753 --> 00:24:28,508
legendary clubs where tons of historic
music was played for the first time.

441
00:24:28,591 --> 00:24:30,969
There's Gerde's Folk City,
there's the Gaslight.

442
00:24:31,052 --> 00:24:34,013
Obviously
we have Carnegie Hall and others.

443
00:24:34,097 --> 00:24:38,309
All of these clubs
were created very faithfully

444
00:24:38,393 --> 00:24:40,436
to look very much like what they did,

445
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,232
and feel, even more importantly,
like they did in the day.

446
00:24:53,074 --> 00:24:58,371
Another place we took real pride
re-creating was the classic Studio A,

447
00:24:58,454 --> 00:25:00,915
the famous Studio A of Columbia Records.

448
00:25:02,458 --> 00:25:05,378
CBS Records, Columbia Records
was, in the '60s,

449
00:25:05,461 --> 00:25:08,006
kind of the preeminent
recording company of the world.

450
00:25:08,089 --> 00:25:11,926
Classical music, pop music,
country music, all of it.

451
00:25:13,302 --> 00:25:15,972
And they had most of the great stars,

452
00:25:16,055 --> 00:25:17,515
from Miles Davis in jazz,

453
00:25:17,598 --> 00:25:20,601
to Barbra Streisand
just beginning in vocals,

454
00:25:20,685 --> 00:25:22,103
to Johnny Mathis,

455
00:25:22,186 --> 00:25:24,230
classical stars of classical music,

456
00:25:24,313 --> 00:25:26,065
on and on and on.

457
00:25:26,149 --> 00:25:28,901
So I didn't want to overstress it,

458
00:25:28,985 --> 00:25:32,864
but the idea of this dishevelled,
rumpled 19-year-old

459
00:25:32,947 --> 00:25:35,867
getting signed to this
gigantic record label...

460
00:25:37,243 --> 00:25:39,412
was momentous.

461
00:25:39,495 --> 00:25:41,289
It doesn't happen.

462
00:25:41,372 --> 00:25:44,250
It just doesn't happen,
and didn't happen until this.

463
00:25:44,333 --> 00:25:46,544
<i>-seven-six-six-seven-one...</i>
-[Bob clears throat]

464
00:25:46,627 --> 00:25:49,047
<i>Fixin' to Die, take one.</i>

465
00:25:50,339 --> 00:25:51,841
[strumming guitar]

466
00:25:53,676 --> 00:25:55,136
This studio--

467
00:25:55,219 --> 00:25:58,139
This particular studio is one in which

468
00:25:58,222 --> 00:26:02,143
so many landmark recordings
of the '60s were laid down.

469
00:26:02,226 --> 00:26:05,813
We re-created it on a sound stage--
it doesn't exist anymore--

470
00:26:05,897 --> 00:26:07,356
and very faithfully.

471
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,109
I mean, obviously, it's really just a box
with a control room,

472
00:26:10,193 --> 00:26:12,945
but the way it looks, the signage.

473
00:26:13,029 --> 00:26:15,198
All the period mic stands,

474
00:26:15,281 --> 00:26:18,534
microphones are all real,
working period mics.

475
00:26:18,618 --> 00:26:22,038
All of this dressing
arranged just as it was

476
00:26:22,121 --> 00:26:25,708
'cause we have incredible photo
research of all these places.

477
00:26:25,792 --> 00:26:28,503
You know, one of the real
advantages of this movie

478
00:26:28,586 --> 00:26:31,881
is people were shooting pictures of Bob
from a pretty early stage,

479
00:26:31,964 --> 00:26:33,925
so we know what these spaces,

480
00:26:34,008 --> 00:26:37,053
everything from this studio,
to his apartment, to the clubs

481
00:26:37,136 --> 00:26:38,930
looked like top to bottom.

482
00:26:39,013 --> 00:26:41,641
<i>Traditional repertoire for now, Albert.</i>

483
00:26:41,724 --> 00:26:44,018
<i>We're putting a younger face on folk.</i>

484
00:26:44,102 --> 00:26:47,730
<i>♪ Well, everybody's got somethin' ♪</i>

485
00:26:47,814 --> 00:26:51,192
<i>♪ That they're lookin' forward to ♪</i>

486
00:26:51,275 --> 00:26:55,905
One of the challenges of making
a biopic, as we call them,

487
00:26:55,988 --> 00:26:58,866
is that we, like every genre,

488
00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:01,494
whether you're making
a western or a cop movie,

489
00:27:01,577 --> 00:27:04,831
there's kind of cliches of the genre

490
00:27:04,914 --> 00:27:06,624
that you try and avoid.

491
00:27:06,707 --> 00:27:09,377
You try and fulfill
the things, the signposts

492
00:27:09,460 --> 00:27:11,671
and the kind of familiar tastes
and flavors

493
00:27:11,754 --> 00:27:13,881
that people love about the genre,

494
00:27:13,965 --> 00:27:17,635
but you try and avoid other things
that may have become tired.

495
00:27:17,718 --> 00:27:19,679
<i>Thank you to Brownie,
and Sonny, especially.</i>

496
00:27:19,762 --> 00:27:23,975
One of the things I tried very hard in the
telling of this story to do

497
00:27:24,058 --> 00:27:29,188
was to avoid too many dates
and facts and introductions

498
00:27:29,272 --> 00:27:32,441
and explaining why
this scene is important,

499
00:27:32,525 --> 00:27:34,318
or people going, "You need to get..."

500
00:27:34,402 --> 00:27:36,445
You know, it's just
you watch him audition,

501
00:27:36,529 --> 00:27:38,156
you watch him lay down his first record,

502
00:27:38,239 --> 00:27:40,366
you watch him beginning
to start his career here.

503
00:27:40,449 --> 00:27:44,328
And I'm not so much kind of
telling you what each scene is,

504
00:27:44,412 --> 00:27:46,581
even though all these moments happened.

505
00:27:46,664 --> 00:27:50,293
I'm trying to let you
fall into the story as if it's a movie

506
00:27:50,376 --> 00:27:55,506
and not make it a kind of educational
piece filled with factual nuggets,

507
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:59,010
which, frankly, I think other mediums
are better at delivering.

508
00:28:00,511 --> 00:28:03,931
What movies are great
at delivering is character,

509
00:28:04,015 --> 00:28:05,892
intimacy, point of view...

510
00:28:05,975 --> 00:28:07,810
<i>♪ Walk on ♪</i>

511
00:28:07,894 --> 00:28:09,604
...and also just the sensual beauty

512
00:28:09,687 --> 00:28:12,190
of re-creating a time
that doesn't exist anymore.

513
00:28:12,273 --> 00:28:14,358
And one that, you know, when I watched it

514
00:28:14,442 --> 00:28:17,695
and it was certainly
when I looked forward to making the film,

515
00:28:17,778 --> 00:28:18,988
is one that I miss.

516
00:28:19,071 --> 00:28:20,156
<i>How old are you?</i>

517
00:28:21,741 --> 00:28:24,368
<i>-20.
-You wrote those songs?</i>

518
00:28:24,452 --> 00:28:28,289
This is the last of our large principal
characters getting introduced,

519
00:28:28,372 --> 00:28:31,083
Elle Fanning playing Sylvie Russo.

520
00:28:31,167 --> 00:28:32,710
<i>What, you mean for my age?</i>

521
00:28:32,793 --> 00:28:34,378
[chuckles softly]

522
00:28:34,462 --> 00:28:35,922
[shushes]

523
00:28:36,005 --> 00:28:37,965
[Mangold] She's going to play a huge role.

524
00:28:38,049 --> 00:28:40,051
She comes in very quickly into his life

525
00:28:40,134 --> 00:28:44,639
and kind of changes
the entire emphasis of the picture,

526
00:28:44,722 --> 00:28:48,809
this scene becoming kind of a launching
pad of a series of scenes

527
00:28:48,893 --> 00:28:51,604
of the two of them falling in love.

528
00:28:51,687 --> 00:28:53,064
<i>That's Alan Lomax.</i>

529
00:28:53,147 --> 00:28:54,774
<i>That's what he does.</i>

530
00:28:54,857 --> 00:28:57,026
<i>He runs the Archive of American Folk.</i>

531
00:28:57,109 --> 00:28:58,861
<i>They record folk music.</i>

532
00:28:58,945 --> 00:29:00,780
<i>How do you know so much?</i>

533
00:29:00,863 --> 00:29:04,450
<i>-My sister works for him.
-Oh.</i>

534
00:29:04,533 --> 00:29:07,828
[Mangold] One of the things
that happened early on for Bob

535
00:29:07,912 --> 00:29:10,122
as he was signed to the record deal

536
00:29:10,206 --> 00:29:13,918
and started doing interviews
and playing his solo gigs around town

537
00:29:14,001 --> 00:29:16,837
is people wanted to know,
"Who was this guy?

538
00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:21,259
Where did he come from? Who is Bob Dylan?"

539
00:29:22,718 --> 00:29:24,262
And of course, when he did interviews,

540
00:29:24,345 --> 00:29:28,057
he told stories very much
like what I have him

541
00:29:28,140 --> 00:29:31,143
telling Sylvie here on this walk,

542
00:29:31,227 --> 00:29:33,229
which is kind of that he traveled

543
00:29:33,312 --> 00:29:35,773
with a kind of circus or carnival

544
00:29:35,856 --> 00:29:38,484
and was a kind of creature of the road

545
00:29:38,567 --> 00:29:41,862
living a kind of vagabond,
Woody Guthrie-esque life,

546
00:29:41,946 --> 00:29:46,784
learning music from cowboys
and strange characters he'd meet

547
00:29:46,867 --> 00:29:49,745
in his travels riding the trains.

548
00:29:49,829 --> 00:29:52,373
Of course, this is all fiction

549
00:29:52,456 --> 00:29:58,671
that Bob made up to make himself
feel maybe, perhaps, more interesting

550
00:29:58,754 --> 00:30:02,508
than just a kid from Minnesota
whose parents owned a hardware store.

551
00:30:02,591 --> 00:30:05,636
<i>No. I thought we were going to
see Guernica at the Museum.</i>

552
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,972
<i>Ah, Picasso's overrated.</i>

553
00:30:08,055 --> 00:30:11,642
But, to me, it's a fascinating window.

554
00:30:11,726 --> 00:30:17,648
It's not so much, to me, about
highlighting Bob as a fabricator of truth,

555
00:30:17,732 --> 00:30:21,068
but to highlight
that he loves telling stories,

556
00:30:21,152 --> 00:30:23,529
even making up ones about himself

557
00:30:23,612 --> 00:30:27,867
and the person he wishes he was, perhaps,
instead of the one he is.

558
00:30:32,705 --> 00:30:34,665
[Jerry] <i>And will you be happy, Charlotte ?</i>

559
00:30:35,916 --> 00:30:37,668
This scene from Now, Voyager,

560
00:30:37,752 --> 00:30:40,212
a classic picture with Bette Davis,

561
00:30:41,797 --> 00:30:43,382
I chose to put in the movie

562
00:30:43,466 --> 00:30:46,927
because it kind of
prompts a conversation in the next scene

563
00:30:48,471 --> 00:30:50,056
about identity.

564
00:30:50,139 --> 00:30:52,892
In Now, Voyager, which, if you haven't
seen, you should watch--

565
00:30:52,975 --> 00:30:57,563
it's one of the great, classic Hollywood
films of the Golden Age--

566
00:30:57,646 --> 00:31:00,608
Bette Davis's character goes
through a kind of transformation

567
00:31:00,691 --> 00:31:04,362
from a kind of wallflower young woman

568
00:31:04,445 --> 00:31:07,448
trapped in the household
caring for her morn

569
00:31:07,531 --> 00:31:09,742
and kind of blossoming as a woman

570
00:31:09,825 --> 00:31:12,953
and kind of reconstructing
her life mid picture.

571
00:31:14,497 --> 00:31:16,707
And as they discuss that movie
in this scene,

572
00:31:16,791 --> 00:31:20,002
what I'm trying to get at
is that Bob's character

573
00:31:20,086 --> 00:31:22,963
kind of identifies with someone

574
00:31:23,047 --> 00:31:26,217
who was kind of birthing them self anew.

575
00:31:27,885 --> 00:31:30,846
Of course, he's arrived in town,
he's changed his name,

576
00:31:30,930 --> 00:31:35,559
he's telling people stories
about his life on the road at the carnival

577
00:31:35,643 --> 00:31:38,521
and creating a kind of mystique
around himself.

578
00:31:38,604 --> 00:31:43,150
And he's a little prickly about people
kind of challenging this notion

579
00:31:43,234 --> 00:31:45,736
that people can just reinvent themselves.

580
00:31:45,820 --> 00:31:48,572
<i>Some of the songs you played
today on your record?</i>

581
00:31:48,656 --> 00:31:50,116
<i>Well, it's mostly covers.</i>

582
00:31:50,199 --> 00:31:51,951
<i>Just traditional stuff.</i>

583
00:31:53,035 --> 00:31:54,495
<i>You know, folk songs are supposed to</i>

584
00:31:54,578 --> 00:31:56,414
<i>stand the test of time, like...</i>

585
00:31:56,497 --> 00:31:58,916
<i>urn, Shakespeare or something.</i>

586
00:32:00,251 --> 00:32:02,878
<i>They say no one wants to hear
What a kid wrote last month.</i>

587
00:32:02,962 --> 00:32:04,672
<i>Who's they?</i>

588
00:32:04,755 --> 00:32:06,424
<i>Record company.</i>

589
00:32:06,507 --> 00:32:09,385
I love the chemistry
between these two actors in this scene

590
00:32:09,468 --> 00:32:13,889
and one of the things you really
try to find in a movie

591
00:32:13,973 --> 00:32:16,642
is actors who have comfort
with each other.

592
00:32:17,935 --> 00:32:20,020
Elle and Timmy had worked together before

593
00:32:20,104 --> 00:32:21,897
and have known each other for years,

594
00:32:21,981 --> 00:32:25,359
kind of grown up as actors
in the business together.

595
00:32:26,485 --> 00:32:28,362
That kind of familiarity,

596
00:32:28,446 --> 00:32:31,740
and both of them also being
enormously talented as actors,

597
00:32:31,824 --> 00:32:35,286
I think was hugely
an advantage for me here,

598
00:32:35,369 --> 00:32:37,329
where I have to, in a matter of minutes,

599
00:32:37,413 --> 00:32:39,373
'cause the movie has to keep moving,

600
00:32:39,457 --> 00:32:43,669
get a kind of connection
and a kind of magic between them

601
00:32:43,752 --> 00:32:48,007
that makes you believe that things are
gonna move pretty quickly with them

602
00:32:48,090 --> 00:32:49,425
and they're gonna come together.

603
00:32:49,508 --> 00:32:51,927
<i>-We organized the freedom rides.
-All right.</i>

604
00:32:55,514 --> 00:32:56,599
<i>This is me.</i>

605
00:33:00,769 --> 00:33:03,355
[Mangold] One of the takes
we did of this scene,

606
00:33:03,439 --> 00:33:06,734
I noticed Timmy, when Elle
kisses him on the cheek,

607
00:33:06,817 --> 00:33:08,444
he does this kind of flinch,

608
00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:13,407
almost like it was a little startling,

609
00:33:13,491 --> 00:33:16,118
and I really loved it.

610
00:33:16,202 --> 00:33:18,204
And we leaned into that idea

611
00:33:18,287 --> 00:33:23,918
because I think it fits in with an idea
that Timmy and I discussed about Bob,

612
00:33:24,001 --> 00:33:29,089
which is this kind of idea that he may be
incredibly confident with a guitar,

613
00:33:29,173 --> 00:33:31,675
and incredibly confident in many ways,

614
00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:35,304
but there's other ways
where some of his bravado

615
00:33:35,387 --> 00:33:37,473
hides a great deal of insecurity

616
00:33:37,556 --> 00:33:42,394
or unease at the pressure he has upon him

617
00:33:42,478 --> 00:33:44,563
and what people expect of him,

618
00:33:44,647 --> 00:33:46,524
and what he expects of himself.

619
00:33:50,361 --> 00:33:52,279
As Timmy wanders into this record shop,

620
00:33:52,363 --> 00:33:55,658
it, of course, gave Phedon,
Frangois and me a chance

621
00:33:55,741 --> 00:34:01,622
to just kind of re-create what the small
record shops of the '60s looked like

622
00:34:01,705 --> 00:34:04,375
at the height of interest in music.

623
00:34:04,458 --> 00:34:06,669
But also what's going on in this scene,

624
00:34:06,752 --> 00:34:08,712
Bob is hearing Joan Baez singing,

625
00:34:08,796 --> 00:34:10,756
seeing her record is sold out,

626
00:34:10,839 --> 00:34:12,841
and more importantly,
seeing that his first record

627
00:34:12,925 --> 00:34:15,135
from Columbia Records isn't selling.

628
00:34:15,219 --> 00:34:17,721
<i>...and the Black churches serve
as the gathering spots...</i>

629
00:34:19,515 --> 00:34:22,393
<i>Let us help you stimulate your conscience.</i>

630
00:34:22,476 --> 00:34:24,144
-[crowd cheering]
{speaking indistinctly]

631
00:34:28,774 --> 00:34:30,651
And then we quickly move
into the other things

632
00:34:30,734 --> 00:34:33,279
that were happening
in Bob's life at this time,

633
00:34:33,362 --> 00:34:36,699
which was also a kind of
rising political awareness

634
00:34:36,782 --> 00:34:41,620
spurred on mainly by Sylvie
and her political involvement at the time

635
00:34:41,704 --> 00:34:44,957
in civil rights
and concerns about the world

636
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,835
and war and nuclear weapons,

637
00:34:47,918 --> 00:34:49,670
but also what was going on around him.

638
00:34:49,753 --> 00:34:54,508
I don't think you could be alive
in the '60s, the early '60s,

639
00:34:54,592 --> 00:34:59,263
and not be aware of a country
in tremendous upheaval,

640
00:34:59,346 --> 00:35:03,434
wrestling with civil rights issues,

641
00:35:03,517 --> 00:35:05,352
women's rights issues,

642
00:35:05,436 --> 00:35:11,400
and also a kind of rising culture that
questioned the values of '50s America

643
00:35:11,483 --> 00:35:16,030
and had different ideas about
how life should be lived.

644
00:35:16,113 --> 00:35:20,534
<i>♪ And pretend that he just doesn't see ? ♪</i>

645
00:35:21,577 --> 00:35:23,495
The reason it was important to try,

646
00:35:23,579 --> 00:35:26,248
even with thumbnail sketches,

647
00:35:26,332 --> 00:35:28,250
to show all these influences,

648
00:35:28,334 --> 00:35:33,172
is it wasn't very long until Bob had
written "Blowing in the Wind,"

649
00:35:33,255 --> 00:35:36,216
which is a kind of meditation on,

650
00:35:37,843 --> 00:35:41,722
what do we do,
and how do we react to all these cruelties

651
00:35:41,805 --> 00:35:44,308
that we see going on around us?

652
00:35:45,601 --> 00:35:46,727
What is the answer?

653
00:35:46,810 --> 00:35:49,021
And, interestingly,

654
00:35:49,104 --> 00:35:51,899
a lot of people propose answers
in their folk music.

655
00:35:51,982 --> 00:35:54,109
A lot of people, politically,
will propose answers.

656
00:35:54,193 --> 00:35:58,447
In a way, Bob wrote
nothing but a question,

657
00:35:59,990 --> 00:36:03,869
in a sense suggesting that the answers are

658
00:36:03,952 --> 00:36:05,579
somewhere floating in the ether...

659
00:36:07,873 --> 00:36:09,917
if we could even be
lucky enough to find them.

660
00:36:12,670 --> 00:36:17,174
For me, it's really wonderful to take a
song as iconic as "Blowing in the Wind"

661
00:36:17,257 --> 00:36:20,636
and to see it getting, in a way, abused,

662
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,971
meaning he is auditioning it
and playing it for Woody,

663
00:36:23,055 --> 00:36:24,807
who probably hears the value in it,

664
00:36:25,891 --> 00:36:27,851
but he's getting cut off by an orderly,

665
00:36:27,935 --> 00:36:30,229
and that's the last we hear of it.

666
00:36:30,312 --> 00:36:34,733
To me, that's kind of the magic of
watching art getting made in a movie

667
00:36:34,817 --> 00:36:40,280
is that it's not always like you sing it,
and then everyone just goes "ooh and aah,"

668
00:36:40,364 --> 00:36:43,742
and it ends up on radios across America,

669
00:36:43,826 --> 00:36:47,996
that these gems, these pearls,
these beautiful creations

670
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,124
sometimes bang around for a while

671
00:36:50,207 --> 00:36:52,126
before people recognize their value.

672
00:37:02,594 --> 00:37:07,182
This is a scene of Sylvie's sister kind of
digging around in Bob's stuff,

673
00:37:07,266 --> 00:37:09,810
discovering his real name is Zimmerman

674
00:37:09,893 --> 00:37:14,440
and kind of seeing these little windows
into his life in Minnesota...

675
00:37:14,523 --> 00:37:15,941
<i>Move along.</i>

676
00:37:16,024 --> 00:37:19,903
...and undermining her sister's confidence
in this relationship

677
00:37:19,987 --> 00:37:22,698
and whether this guy is
being completely honest with her.

678
00:37:25,117 --> 00:37:28,787
Here we get the first glimpse
of Boyd Holbrook playing Johnny Cash,

679
00:37:28,871 --> 00:37:30,414
albeit on a TV screen.

680
00:37:30,497 --> 00:37:34,126
Boyd and I have made
several movies together, and I adore him.

681
00:37:34,209 --> 00:37:37,296
He's a brilliant actor and a great person.

682
00:37:39,006 --> 00:37:42,926
And Boyd is also a Southern boy and has
this great masculine presence,

683
00:37:43,010 --> 00:37:47,765
which I thought he could really lean into,
playing the Man in Black.

684
00:37:47,848 --> 00:37:49,433
<i>You got it.</i>

685
00:37:49,516 --> 00:37:51,852
[Sylvie] <i>I have to do this.
It's a school trip.</i>

686
00:37:51,935 --> 00:37:56,315
This scene kind of follows
the scene between Sylvie and her sister,

687
00:37:56,398 --> 00:38:00,319
in which the kind of...
in which the kind of anxieties

688
00:38:00,402 --> 00:38:03,280
she has about Bob are
kind of coming to fore.

689
00:38:03,363 --> 00:38:04,948
<i>Are you God, Bob?</i>

690
00:38:05,032 --> 00:38:10,245
I always find, so often, in my experience,
in relationships with family

691
00:38:10,329 --> 00:38:13,373
that always, just when
someone's leaving on a trip,

692
00:38:13,457 --> 00:38:16,251
there's very often a last confrontation

693
00:38:16,335 --> 00:38:18,504
of something that's been simmering.

694
00:38:18,587 --> 00:38:21,840
And so, this is a moment
where Sylvie is confronting Bob

695
00:38:21,924 --> 00:38:24,676
on just not being sure who he is.

696
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,303
<i>I don't know you.</i>

697
00:38:29,306 --> 00:38:31,391
<i>There's a face on your driver's license.</i>

698
00:38:31,475 --> 00:38:32,559
<i>He's different.</i>

699
00:38:32,643 --> 00:38:34,728
<i>-Has a different name.
-Wow.</i>

700
00:38:36,021 --> 00:38:37,773
[Mangold] One of the things
when you're casting a film

701
00:38:37,856 --> 00:38:40,442
that you become very conscious of,

702
00:38:40,526 --> 00:38:42,778
at least the way I think about actors,
is that--

703
00:38:42,861 --> 00:38:46,031
It's, A, what can they do with the role?

704
00:38:46,114 --> 00:38:49,910
But it's also what does this person
bring to the role?

705
00:38:49,993 --> 00:38:51,578
What I mean by that is,

706
00:38:51,662 --> 00:38:57,334
every actor has a kind of core energy,
a core vibe, if you will.

707
00:38:57,417 --> 00:39:00,462
And in this section
of the movie in particular,

708
00:39:00,546 --> 00:39:03,298
but in this movie there is kind of a...
a triangle

709
00:39:03,382 --> 00:39:07,010
between Bob and Sylvie and Joan.

710
00:39:07,094 --> 00:39:08,846
<i>-Yes!
-Mm.!</i>

711
00:39:08,929 --> 00:39:13,350
And I really wanted Joan and Sylvie to be

712
00:39:13,433 --> 00:39:16,603
very different characters,

713
00:39:16,687 --> 00:39:18,313
not kind of...

714
00:39:18,397 --> 00:39:20,607
And I don't mean blonde versus brunette.

715
00:39:20,691 --> 00:39:22,693
I mean very different characters.

716
00:39:24,027 --> 00:39:25,320
[strumming guitar]

717
00:39:26,488 --> 00:39:28,323
And what Sylvie is, in many ways, is

718
00:39:28,407 --> 00:39:32,452
kind of one of
the most normalized people in the movie.

719
00:39:32,536 --> 00:39:34,746
She's not a singer-songwriter.

720
00:39:34,830 --> 00:39:37,624
She's living life,
learning about the world,

721
00:39:37,708 --> 00:39:41,670
concerned about politics,
high functioning, socially able,

722
00:39:41,753 --> 00:39:48,635
but kind of also really kind,
really loves Bob for who he is,

723
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,889
loved him before he was Bob Dylan,
in that sense.

724
00:39:54,892 --> 00:39:57,603
And Joan is a kind of different energy,

725
00:39:57,686 --> 00:39:59,479
a kind of show business professional,

726
00:39:59,563 --> 00:40:03,942
grounded and kind of strong,
almost masculine in some ways,

727
00:40:04,026 --> 00:40:08,322
almost a match for Bob,
in terms of her strength

728
00:40:08,405 --> 00:40:12,826
and her kind of sense of gravity
and confidence in herself.

729
00:40:12,910 --> 00:40:16,663
And all... Both of those things, I think,

730
00:40:16,747 --> 00:40:20,626
are incredibly well done by each of the
actresses playing these roles,

731
00:40:20,709 --> 00:40:23,337
but also are part of who they are.

732
00:40:25,714 --> 00:40:28,258
[John F. Kennedy on TV]
<i>Good evening, my fellow citizens.</i>

733
00:40:28,342 --> 00:40:30,969
[Mangold] Elle, when you
have the joy to know her,

734
00:40:31,053 --> 00:40:34,514
is a really loving, kind,
collaborative, wonderful person.

735
00:40:34,598 --> 00:40:36,308
So is Monica.

736
00:40:36,391 --> 00:40:40,729
But Monica is also kind of
very cut and dry, very matter of fact,

737
00:40:40,812 --> 00:40:43,148
gets down to business very quickly.

738
00:40:43,231 --> 00:40:46,693
There's a level where
there's overlaps in character.

739
00:40:46,777 --> 00:40:52,157
Because I think of the motion picture
camera as a kind of X-ray,

740
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:57,287
and it's what makes acting for movies
so precarious, so challenging.

741
00:40:57,371 --> 00:40:59,831
It's that it's not on a stage
where you can kind of

742
00:40:59,915 --> 00:41:03,335
fake your way through a moment or two,

743
00:41:03,418 --> 00:41:05,629
and many in the audience may never see it.

744
00:41:05,712 --> 00:41:07,214
[indistinct shouting]

745
00:41:07,297 --> 00:41:10,092
<i>...I directed that our
surveillance be stepped up.</i>

746
00:41:10,175 --> 00:41:12,135
[Mangold] The camera is so close.

747
00:41:12,219 --> 00:41:13,971
We can see the pores.

748
00:41:14,054 --> 00:41:16,765
We can see the veins in your eyes.

749
00:41:16,848 --> 00:41:19,309
We can see everything about you.

750
00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:25,273
There's really nowhere to hide
in a close-up.

751
00:41:25,357 --> 00:41:28,860
So you have to bring
something of yourself to the role

752
00:41:28,944 --> 00:41:31,697
so that you can actually live in it

753
00:41:31,780 --> 00:41:36,034
under the intense observation
of the camera.

754
00:41:36,118 --> 00:41:39,204
<i>And there goes the whole ball game.</i>

755
00:41:39,287 --> 00:41:40,414
<i>So, how do we relate Berlin as the...</i>

756
00:41:40,497 --> 00:41:41,915
[Tin ya] <i>What's on TV?</i>

757
00:41:41,999 --> 00:41:44,167
[Mangold] Doing research on the movie
was very interesting,

758
00:41:44,251 --> 00:41:48,672
the way the Cuban Missile Crisis
played such a pivotal role

759
00:41:48,755 --> 00:41:55,345
in kind of moving Bob into a kind of even
more aggressive position

760
00:41:55,429 --> 00:41:58,432
in terms of some of
the political songs he was writing.

761
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,061
Also, it was very interesting

762
00:42:03,145 --> 00:42:09,401
to observe how Sylvie going away,
for this period, to Europe

763
00:42:09,484 --> 00:42:13,071
had left him, for the first time,
really alone in the city,

764
00:42:13,155 --> 00:42:15,949
at a moment when the shit hits the fan

765
00:42:16,033 --> 00:42:20,120
and there's a week in which people are not
sure they're gonna live

766
00:42:20,203 --> 00:42:22,456
or whether the whole East Coast
of the United States

767
00:42:22,539 --> 00:42:25,000
might be annihilated in a nuclear attack.

768
00:42:25,083 --> 00:42:28,211
<i>Taxi! Taxi! Hey! Come on!</i>

769
00:42:28,295 --> 00:42:30,380
[panting]

770
00:42:30,464 --> 00:42:35,594
And it was from this firmament
that the song "Masters of War" was born.

771
00:42:35,677 --> 00:42:36,762
[Bob] <i>Thank you.</i>

772
00:42:38,472 --> 00:42:39,765
<i>This is a new one.</i>

773
00:42:41,516 --> 00:42:44,311
<i>♪ Come you masters of war ♪</i>

774
00:42:46,813 --> 00:42:50,442
[Mangold] This is a re-creation
of another famous club in New York

775
00:42:50,525 --> 00:42:52,778
where a hell of a lot
of great things happened,

776
00:42:52,861 --> 00:42:56,990
including some of Bob's earliest
performances, which is the Gaslight,

777
00:42:57,074 --> 00:43:02,037
which was a club in a basement
off of MacDougal Street.

778
00:43:03,830 --> 00:43:06,833
<i>♪ You hide in your mansion ♪</i>

779
00:43:08,126 --> 00:43:10,587
<i>♪ While the young people's blood ♪</i>

780
00:43:12,506 --> 00:43:16,510
<i>♪ Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud ♪</i>

781
00:43:19,012 --> 00:43:21,723
[Mangold] And, again, this is
just Timmy playing in the room

782
00:43:21,807 --> 00:43:24,935
for the extras and Monica,
and us shooting it.

783
00:43:27,395 --> 00:43:31,108
<i>♪ Will it buy you forgiveness ♪</i>

784
00:43:31,191 --> 00:43:32,943
The point being, again,

785
00:43:34,152 --> 00:43:35,737
what better way to try and capture

786
00:43:35,821 --> 00:43:38,073
the authenticity of folk music

787
00:43:38,156 --> 00:43:42,202
than to just let it be authentically folk
music, live and in the moment.

788
00:43:44,329 --> 00:43:46,248
<i>♪ All the money you made ♪</i>

789
00:43:46,331 --> 00:43:48,500
<i>♪ Will never buy back your soul ♪</i>

790
00:43:50,460 --> 00:43:55,173
<i>♪ And I'll watch while you're lowered ♪</i>

791
00:43:55,257 --> 00:43:57,050
<i>♪ Down to your deathbed ♪</i>

792
00:43:57,134 --> 00:43:59,678
[Mangold] Interestingly,
when you're trying to get actors

793
00:43:59,761 --> 00:44:04,975
and encourage them to take risks,
the biggest thing--

794
00:44:05,058 --> 00:44:09,104
One of the biggest elements of my job is
to try and make all the pressure go away.

795
00:44:11,773 --> 00:44:14,860
To try and make it seem like
it's just us playing here,

796
00:44:14,943 --> 00:44:18,738
and there will never be a moment
where all this is analyzed in the press

797
00:44:18,822 --> 00:44:22,909
and taken apart, and people poke at it
and find problems with it.

798
00:44:22,993 --> 00:44:27,581
To do the work, you kind of
have to free yourself from understanding,

799
00:44:27,664 --> 00:44:30,959
being aware of how much it's all
gonna be analyzed later.

800
00:44:48,059 --> 00:44:52,355
We shot this scene
between Monica and Timmy in his apartment

801
00:44:52,439 --> 00:44:53,732
very late in the schedule.

802
00:44:53,815 --> 00:44:55,901
I'm very glad we did, for many reasons,

803
00:44:55,984 --> 00:44:58,695
one of which was just they
kind of had this great comfort

804
00:44:58,778 --> 00:45:00,614
with each other by this point.

805
00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:04,117
It's one of my favorite scenes
in the movie,

806
00:45:05,911 --> 00:45:10,123
just because I think it says so much
about the characters...

807
00:45:13,001 --> 00:45:15,003
and their unique relationship.

808
00:45:15,086 --> 00:45:18,423
<i>The Unites States almost
went to nuclear war.</i>

809
00:45:18,506 --> 00:45:22,427
You get to see that Joan in the aftermath
of the Cuban Missile Crisis,

810
00:45:22,510 --> 00:45:25,055
and waking up in bed with him
in this new morning

811
00:45:25,138 --> 00:45:28,016
where it appears the world is
gonna go back to normal,

812
00:45:28,099 --> 00:45:35,106
that Joan is really his equal
and sees through him.

813
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:40,320
For instance, she doesn't, for a moment,
believe he traveled with the carnival.

814
00:45:43,698 --> 00:45:45,742
But also that he sees through her,

815
00:45:45,825 --> 00:45:49,329
and he sees her struggles to write music

816
00:45:49,412 --> 00:45:52,624
that rival the standards
she usually sings...

817
00:45:52,707 --> 00:45:55,335
<i>If he does, we will call off
the quarantine</i>

818
00:45:55,418 --> 00:45:57,128
<i>and there will be no invasion.</i>

819
00:45:57,212 --> 00:46:01,716
...and makes no hesitation
to poke her where she's vulnerable.

820
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,136
<i>Has the United States made
a deal with Moscow? The answer is no.</i>

821
00:46:05,220 --> 00:46:08,431
In a way, the scene
is a kind of love scene

822
00:46:08,515 --> 00:46:14,187
between two incredibly talented, confident
and egotistical geniuses.

823
00:46:14,271 --> 00:46:15,647
<i>Well, that's that.</i>

824
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,403
And what happens with the song
is it becomes a moment

825
00:46:21,486 --> 00:46:24,906
where all their posturing
with each other vanishes

826
00:46:24,990 --> 00:46:28,827
and it becomes just purely
the beauty of each of them

827
00:46:28,910 --> 00:46:30,245
and connecting.

828
00:46:32,497 --> 00:46:34,291
<i>Who taught you to play?</i>

829
00:46:34,374 --> 00:46:36,084
<i>Well, I taught myself really.</i>

830
00:46:37,335 --> 00:46:40,297
<i>Picked up a few licks at the carnival.</i>

831
00:46:42,507 --> 00:46:43,967
<i>At the carnival?</i>

832
00:46:44,050 --> 00:46:46,386
<i>Oh, yeah, there was singin' cowboys
that'd come through,</i>

833
00:46:46,469 --> 00:46:48,847
<i>teach me all sorts of funny chords.</i>

834
00:46:48,930 --> 00:46:50,557
<i>Yeah, they'd pass through in the shows</i>

835
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,976
<i>in, uh, Kansas or Dakotas.</i>

836
00:46:54,394 --> 00:46:57,647
[Mangold] Bob's apartment
we built on a stage as well.

837
00:46:57,731 --> 00:47:02,235
It is an exact replica,
almost down to the inch,

838
00:47:02,319 --> 00:47:05,530
of the actual apartment on 4th Street

839
00:47:05,613 --> 00:47:07,198
where Bob lived for all these years,

840
00:47:07,282 --> 00:47:09,200
and all this iconic music was written.

841
00:47:09,284 --> 00:47:11,494
<i>I had lessons as a kid,
you know, normal lessons.</i>

842
00:47:11,578 --> 00:47:15,123
Everything. I mean, the dressing,
the pictures on the walls.

843
00:47:15,206 --> 00:47:17,876
Not just the shape of the room.
Everything.

844
00:47:19,502 --> 00:47:21,296
A great deal of effort--

845
00:47:21,379 --> 00:47:24,799
Regina, our set decorator, and Franςois
Audouy, our production designer

846
00:47:24,883 --> 00:47:27,093
went to a tremendous amount of effort

847
00:47:27,177 --> 00:47:29,763
to try and really make it like it was.

848
00:47:29,846 --> 00:47:32,098
I mean, when we had
all this photo research

849
00:47:32,182 --> 00:47:34,559
that showed us what it looked like.

850
00:47:35,727 --> 00:47:37,228
<i>Sunsets and seagulls.</i>

851
00:47:37,312 --> 00:47:38,897
<i>Smell of buttercups.</i>

852
00:47:38,980 --> 00:47:42,567
<i>Your songs are like an oil painting
at the dentist's office.</i>

853
00:47:44,736 --> 00:47:47,072
<i>You're kind of an asshole, Bob.</i>

854
00:47:48,406 --> 00:47:49,783
<i>Yeah, I guess.</i>

855
00:47:56,122 --> 00:47:57,374
<i>Play this.</i>

856
00:48:01,252 --> 00:48:03,588
[Mangold] Timmy had this idea,
when we did this scene,

857
00:48:03,671 --> 00:48:05,340
that we should have the strings...

858
00:48:05,423 --> 00:48:06,966
Often musicians, when they're at home,

859
00:48:07,050 --> 00:48:10,261
won't trim, with a wire cutter,
the extra string

860
00:48:10,345 --> 00:48:12,430
on that end of the neck of the guitar.

861
00:48:14,224 --> 00:48:16,893
So, we let them be long,
but if you watch very carefully,

862
00:48:16,976 --> 00:48:20,688
you'll notice they keep getting shorter
as I'm moving into close-ups

863
00:48:20,772 --> 00:48:24,818
because the strings
kept bouncing in front of his face.

864
00:48:24,901 --> 00:48:28,530
And I was getting so frustrated I just
kept coming in and giving them a haircut,

865
00:48:28,613 --> 00:48:31,324
so they're already significantly shorter
in this shot

866
00:48:31,408 --> 00:48:32,826
than they were in the wide one.

867
00:48:34,994 --> 00:48:40,708
<i>♪ How many seas must a white dove sail ♪</i>

868
00:48:40,792 --> 00:48:44,712
<i>♪ Before she sleeps in the send? ♪</i>

869
00:48:46,256 --> 00:48:50,885
<i>♪ Yes and now many times
Must the cannon balls fly ♪</i>

870
00:48:50,969 --> 00:48:53,805
[Mangold] You try to find this very fine
balance as you shoot the music,

871
00:48:53,888 --> 00:48:59,144
where you don't want everything to be this
kind of cliche scene of people going,

872
00:48:59,227 --> 00:49:01,354
"Oh, my God. It's this famous song."

873
00:49:02,230 --> 00:49:03,940
Again...

874
00:49:04,023 --> 00:49:08,403
But you also want to show that people do
recognize the talent in his music.

875
00:49:09,279 --> 00:49:11,072
So, it's a very fine balance

876
00:49:11,156 --> 00:49:14,868
between kind of playing
what's really strong about the music,

877
00:49:14,951 --> 00:49:19,998
but also not turning it into kind of this,
"Oh, my God. That's solid gold."

878
00:49:20,081 --> 00:49:24,461
<i>♪ How many years can some people exist ♪</i>

879
00:49:24,544 --> 00:49:26,880
And some of this is
also in the shooting style.

880
00:49:26,963 --> 00:49:31,259
It's kind of observational.
I'm not trying to overdo it.

881
00:49:32,469 --> 00:49:34,429
I'm just letting them be
and letting them sing

882
00:49:34,512 --> 00:49:39,184
and letting the moment happen like it
might in a house with two musicians.

883
00:49:42,395 --> 00:49:45,440
<i>♪ The answer, my friend ♪</i>

884
00:49:45,523 --> 00:49:48,109
<i>♪ Is blowin' in the wind ♪</i>

885
00:49:48,193 --> 00:49:53,406
<i>♪ The answer is blowin' in the wind ♪</i>

886
00:49:56,034 --> 00:49:57,535
Music has this power--

887
00:49:57,619 --> 00:50:02,165
When we do our jobs, it has this power
to let us drop our attitudes.

888
00:50:02,248 --> 00:50:04,792
And one of the beautiful things
here is each of these characters

889
00:50:04,876 --> 00:50:08,963
has their own ego and their own defenses
and their own pride,

890
00:50:09,047 --> 00:50:13,051
but in the moment they're singing,
they're kind of just one.

891
00:50:13,134 --> 00:50:17,847
And what I was really focused on
was when the song ends,

892
00:50:17,931 --> 00:50:21,434
I wanted to see
all that other stuff sweep back in.

893
00:50:21,518 --> 00:50:25,772
As soon as the beauty and purity
of the song ends,

894
00:50:25,855 --> 00:50:27,690
you suddenly are left with,

895
00:50:27,774 --> 00:50:31,361
"Who are we? What are we?
What are we doing here?"

896
00:50:31,444 --> 00:50:33,863
And I think it's a really great moment,

897
00:50:33,947 --> 00:50:36,866
particularly for Monica right here,

898
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:39,494
when the song comes to a close.

899
00:50:39,577 --> 00:50:40,703
[♪ music stops]

900
00:50:48,670 --> 00:50:49,754
<i>So, this is...</i>

901
00:50:51,047 --> 00:50:52,090
<i>What?</i>

902
00:50:56,302 --> 00:50:57,387
<i>I don't know.</i>

903
00:51:05,812 --> 00:51:07,522
<i>Have you recorded that song?</i>

904
00:51:09,065 --> 00:51:10,650
<i>No, not yet.</i>

905
00:51:13,152 --> 00:51:14,696
<i>You should let me try it.</i>

906
00:51:19,367 --> 00:51:22,829
[Mangold] One of the ways
I was trying to avoid

907
00:51:22,912 --> 00:51:28,626
kind of being too historical or biopic-y,
a cliché biopic,

908
00:51:28,710 --> 00:51:30,628
was to, again, as I said earlier,

909
00:51:30,712 --> 00:51:33,840
try not to involve myself in dates,

910
00:51:33,923 --> 00:51:37,927
telling you how the records are selling,
what's on the charts, what it is--

911
00:51:38,011 --> 00:51:42,890
Just let you live with the characters
at different moments

912
00:51:42,974 --> 00:51:44,309
on this timeline

913
00:51:44,392 --> 00:51:47,687
and see how the story
between them all is developing.

914
00:51:49,856 --> 00:51:52,191
And that's very much
this section of the movie.

915
00:51:52,275 --> 00:51:55,862
I feel like the movie's
very much in a groove at this point.

916
00:51:55,945 --> 00:51:59,907
And the scenes just keep coming
and are purely observational,

917
00:51:59,991 --> 00:52:02,076
but each kicking into the next.

918
00:52:02,910 --> 00:52:04,829
[Sylvie laughs]

919
00:52:04,912 --> 00:52:09,375
But these are obviously sessions
for what will be his kind of--

920
00:52:09,459 --> 00:52:13,880
the... the really landmark album
<i>Freewheelin'</i> Bob Dylan.

921
00:52:16,549 --> 00:52:22,889
And <i>Freewheelin'</i> is the record
that kind of changed everything.

922
00:52:22,972 --> 00:52:24,849
And it's also the record

923
00:52:24,932 --> 00:52:28,770
where most of the songs are
finally his own writing.

924
00:52:28,853 --> 00:52:31,564
<i>♪ When your rooster crows
at the break of dawn ♪</i>

925
00:52:31,648 --> 00:52:33,858
<i>Who... Who wrote this?</i>

926
00:52:33,941 --> 00:52:37,403
Folk music, up until Bob Dylan, really,
was really predominantly--

927
00:52:37,487 --> 00:52:42,033
It had a tradition that the artist would
sing traditional songs,

928
00:52:42,116 --> 00:52:45,995
songs that had existed for decades,
if not even a century.

929
00:52:47,205 --> 00:52:48,289
[Sylvie squeals]

930
00:52:49,749 --> 00:52:51,459
He may be arranging them in new ways,

931
00:52:51,542 --> 00:52:55,963
but that the songs were
kind of timeless and proven by history.

932
00:52:56,047 --> 00:52:59,801
And Bob changed that,
in the sense that he kind of said

933
00:52:59,884 --> 00:53:02,929
we can write new folk music for today,

934
00:53:04,138 --> 00:53:06,891
although his first two albums
are mainly covers,

935
00:53:06,974 --> 00:53:11,270
and it really took
until <i>Freewheelin'</i> for him

936
00:53:11,354 --> 00:53:14,232
to fully assert the power
of his own writing.

937
00:53:15,858 --> 00:53:17,819
<i>♪ Still, I wish there was
somethin ' you could ♪</i>

938
00:53:17,902 --> 00:53:19,570
<i>♪ Do or say ♪</i>

939
00:53:19,654 --> 00:53:22,824
And a lot of the exposure-- And this is
what this scene was trying to show.

940
00:53:22,907 --> 00:53:26,536
A lot of the exposure
for Bob Dylan's early music

941
00:53:26,619 --> 00:53:30,039
actually came about
as a result of people covering his music,

942
00:53:30,123 --> 00:53:32,834
whether you're talking about The Byrds
or Joan Baez or others.

943
00:53:32,917 --> 00:53:35,628
There were a lot of people
who recognized his songwriting talent

944
00:53:35,712 --> 00:53:39,382
and were covering them and putting them on
the charts and recording them

945
00:53:39,465 --> 00:53:42,301
before Bob, really,
had broken as an artist himself,

946
00:53:42,385 --> 00:53:44,887
as a recording artist himself.

947
00:53:44,971 --> 00:53:47,181
- <i>You can plug that here.
-[Albert] What did I say?</i>

948
00:53:47,265 --> 00:53:48,850
<i>No, Sylvie, don't bring 'em in here.</i>

949
00:53:48,933 --> 00:53:50,852
<i>I didn't bring them, Bob, you did.</i>

950
00:53:50,935 --> 00:53:53,646
[Mangold] I love this frame
of Bob's apartment.

951
00:53:53,730 --> 00:53:58,693
And it kind of really plays
for a long time in the scene, in depth.

952
00:53:58,776 --> 00:54:00,695
When you refer to scenes playing in depth,

953
00:54:00,778 --> 00:54:03,156
what I mean is
I've got actors sitting in foreground,

954
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,200
I've got Danny Fogler
directing things in the background.

955
00:54:06,284 --> 00:54:11,205
The frame is just kind of alive, packed
with activity of all different sizes.

956
00:54:13,207 --> 00:54:15,918
But also, if you look at this frame,
it comes back again.

957
00:54:16,002 --> 00:54:18,880
Urn, I love the wardrobe.

958
00:54:18,963 --> 00:54:22,216
Urn, Arianne Phillips and I
have worked together numerous times.

959
00:54:22,300 --> 00:54:25,470
And the style and fashion of Bob Dylan,

960
00:54:25,553 --> 00:54:27,930
and also this period in the Village,

961
00:54:28,014 --> 00:54:31,768
is so beautiful and so interesting.

962
00:54:31,851 --> 00:54:35,772
And, you know, I love this top
Timmy's wearing in this scene.

963
00:54:35,855 --> 00:54:39,650
And, you know, of course,
Grossman in his suit-- period suit.

964
00:54:39,734 --> 00:54:44,405
And all this work on wardrobe only works

965
00:54:44,489 --> 00:54:48,409
when it's also working with the set
and the background,

966
00:54:48,493 --> 00:54:51,662
and how unified these frames, to me, feel.

967
00:54:51,746 --> 00:54:54,373
It's not just a costume designer
saying one thing

968
00:54:54,457 --> 00:54:56,250
and the production designer
saying another,

969
00:54:56,334 --> 00:54:59,962
and Phedon and I doing
yet another thing with the camera.

970
00:55:00,046 --> 00:55:02,048
That there's a kind of integration

971
00:55:02,131 --> 00:55:05,551
of all these looks and feelings
and the color palette

972
00:55:05,635 --> 00:55:07,637
is a result of incredible teamwork.

973
00:55:12,391 --> 00:55:13,768
<i>Hey, there.</i>

974
00:55:13,851 --> 00:55:14,977
[♪ music stops]

975
00:55:15,061 --> 00:55:16,938
[Mangold] Also, one of
the things, you know,

976
00:55:17,021 --> 00:55:20,650
when you talk about costumes
that many people don't think about is,

977
00:55:20,733 --> 00:55:23,986
you think,
"Oh, the costume designer helps decide

978
00:55:24,070 --> 00:55:27,490
what they're wearing and how it fits."
Right? Of course.

979
00:55:27,573 --> 00:55:31,869
But there's two aspects to that job
that are really complicated.

980
00:55:31,953 --> 00:55:35,122
One is that a lot of these clothes
don't exist anymore

981
00:55:35,206 --> 00:55:37,542
and the fabrics they were made with
don't exist anymore

982
00:55:37,625 --> 00:55:41,212
and the way they fall on a body
doesn't exist anymore.

983
00:55:41,295 --> 00:55:43,089
So, you've got to make them,

984
00:55:43,172 --> 00:55:45,049
or you've got to find vintage pieces,

985
00:55:45,132 --> 00:55:48,886
or enough of them that you can handle
the action of the movie.

986
00:55:51,222 --> 00:55:53,975
But the other aspect of costume design
that's really interesting

987
00:55:54,058 --> 00:55:59,438
and is a particular,
unique gift of Arianne's,

988
00:55:59,522 --> 00:56:02,859
besides just her incredible eye
and research,

989
00:56:02,942 --> 00:56:07,655
is her kindness and openness with actors.

990
00:56:07,738 --> 00:56:14,370
You know, when a movie starts,
one of the first places an actor goes is

991
00:56:14,453 --> 00:56:16,622
to wardrobe, to costume, to get fitted,

992
00:56:16,706 --> 00:56:18,791
to begin the process of constructing

993
00:56:18,875 --> 00:56:21,627
and finding their wardrobe and their look

994
00:56:21,711 --> 00:56:23,462
and how they feel in these clothes

995
00:56:23,546 --> 00:56:26,549
and whether they feel
like these characters in these clothes.

996
00:56:26,632 --> 00:56:29,260
And that process is really fragile.

997
00:56:29,343 --> 00:56:30,720
The actors are all nervous.

998
00:56:30,803 --> 00:56:34,223
They're at the very beginning
of a giant undertaking.

999
00:56:34,307 --> 00:56:38,519
And Arianne conducts a kind of laboratory

1000
00:56:38,603 --> 00:56:41,814
with the actors
and the wardrobe, their props.

1001
00:56:41,898 --> 00:56:45,443
For this,
it would be eyeglasses and harmonica racks

1002
00:56:45,526 --> 00:56:47,528
and working with props, guitar straps

1003
00:56:47,612 --> 00:56:51,616
and everything where they can
feel entirely comfortable.

1004
00:56:51,699 --> 00:56:53,618
Because that's what you want.

1005
00:56:53,701 --> 00:56:58,414
You want, in the end, these actors to just
feel like these are their clothes.

1006
00:56:58,497 --> 00:57:01,042
They've been using these tools forever.

1007
00:57:02,710 --> 00:57:08,257
And this also goes to our hair team and
makeup team of Stacey and Jamie.

1008
00:57:08,341 --> 00:57:10,092
You know, I wanted it messy in this movie,

1009
00:57:10,176 --> 00:57:12,595
and this shot perfectly exemplifies it.

1010
00:57:12,678 --> 00:57:14,513
Like, Joan's hair
never looked so beautiful

1011
00:57:14,597 --> 00:57:17,058
as when there's a lock
blowing across her face.

1012
00:57:17,141 --> 00:57:20,645
That these are rumpled heroes.
That they aren't glam.

1013
00:57:20,728 --> 00:57:22,438
That kind of period hasn't come yet.

1014
00:57:22,521 --> 00:57:25,066
These are kind of people
who part of their look

1015
00:57:25,149 --> 00:57:28,361
is a representation
of their musical philosophy,

1016
00:57:28,444 --> 00:57:30,279
which is being real.

1017
00:57:30,363 --> 00:57:33,115
And, Monica, by the way,
if you notice in this movie--

1018
00:57:33,199 --> 00:57:36,702
It's hard because it's a wide-screen
movie, so you don't often see feet,

1019
00:57:36,786 --> 00:57:40,164
but she's almost always barefoot
in this film,

1020
00:57:40,247 --> 00:57:44,251
whether in an apartment or even on stage
at Newport or elsewhere.

1021
00:57:44,335 --> 00:57:46,420
That was a particular habit of Joan Baez's

1022
00:57:46,504 --> 00:57:49,507
that Monica made sure
she kept alive in the film.

1023
00:57:49,590 --> 00:57:52,760
<i>Oh. And Mr. Hammond's office
set these aside for you.</i>

1024
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:02,770
It's at this point in the movie

1025
00:58:02,853 --> 00:58:06,232
that Johnny Cash becomes
something a little more

1026
00:58:06,315 --> 00:58:10,111
than just a vision on a small
black-and-white television.

1027
00:58:10,194 --> 00:58:13,781
And this is a depiction of something that,
of course, really happened.

1028
00:58:13,864 --> 00:58:16,534
And the words of these letters
from Johnny Cash

1029
00:58:16,617 --> 00:58:19,829
are the words of his letters to Bob Dylan.

1030
00:58:19,912 --> 00:58:23,249
[Johnny] <i>I'll just say, uh,
your </i>Freewheelin' <i>album...</i>

1031
00:58:23,332 --> 00:58:26,210
[Mangold] When I read about
that these two artists

1032
00:58:26,293 --> 00:58:29,338
started becoming pen pals in this period,

1033
00:58:29,422 --> 00:58:32,216
I called Bob Dylan's manager, Jeff Rosen,

1034
00:58:32,299 --> 00:58:36,053
and I asked him,
"Do you have these letters?"

1035
00:58:37,638 --> 00:58:39,390
And he said,
"Sure, I'll send them over to you."

1036
00:58:39,473 --> 00:58:44,770
And then, suddenly, in my e-mail popped up
scans of these incredible letters

1037
00:58:44,854 --> 00:58:47,857
that Bob had saved
that Johnny Cash had written him,

1038
00:58:47,940 --> 00:58:50,943
which, to my knowledge,
have never been reprinted anywhere

1039
00:58:51,027 --> 00:58:57,992
and were incredibly helpful to construct
this kind of dialogue that Bob was having

1040
00:58:58,075 --> 00:59:00,036
with someone he admired from far away,

1041
00:59:00,119 --> 00:59:05,583
who was kind of grounding him and giving
him perspective as his star was rising

1042
00:59:05,666 --> 00:59:09,336
and life was becoming less easy to manage.

1043
00:59:10,963 --> 00:59:12,548
[man 2] <i>Hey, Bob, where you gain'?</i>

1044
00:59:12,631 --> 00:59:15,551
[newscaster] <i>Over 300,000 marchers
descended on Washington today</i>

1045
00:59:15,634 --> 00:59:17,053
<i>to demand the end of segregation.</i>

1046
00:59:17,136 --> 00:59:20,389
<i>from New York, Bob Dylan.</i>

1047
00:59:22,016 --> 00:59:26,562
<i>♪ When the marshals
and cops fled the scene ♪</i>

1048
00:59:26,645 --> 00:59:30,316
[Mangold] The point
of this whole sequence is, in a sense,

1049
00:59:30,399 --> 00:59:33,027
just depicting how life
for Bob Dylan changed

1050
00:59:33,110 --> 00:59:35,404
with the release of Freewheelin'',

1051
00:59:35,488 --> 00:59:39,617
effectively a hit album
but also one that made him a star

1052
00:59:39,700 --> 00:59:43,954
and a kind of object of desire
and fascination as a person,

1053
00:59:44,038 --> 00:59:45,998
as well as an artist
who was a singer-songwriter.

1054
00:59:46,082 --> 00:59:49,168
[Bob] <i>Dear Johnny. Thanks for that letter.</i>

1055
00:59:49,251 --> 00:59:50,836
<i>I am now famous.</i>

1056
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:52,922
[indistinct chatter]

1057
00:59:54,799 --> 00:59:56,717
[Mangold] And it was so apparent to me,

1058
00:59:56,801 --> 01:00:01,097
in the correspondence
between Johnny Cash and Bob at the time,

1059
01:00:01,180 --> 01:00:05,684
that this was something
Bob was really focused on,

1060
01:00:05,768 --> 01:00:09,063
was how to wrap his head around

1061
01:00:09,146 --> 01:00:12,608
becoming this kind of symbol

1062
01:00:12,691 --> 01:00:15,152
or something larger than a person,

1063
01:00:15,236 --> 01:00:19,907
a kind of character
with a huge number of rabid fans.

1064
01:00:19,990 --> 01:00:23,202
[Johnny] <i>I was in, uh, New York last week,</i>

1065
01:00:23,285 --> 01:00:26,956
<i>saw a bunch of folk singers
that couldn't hold a chigger on your ass.</i>

1066
01:00:27,039 --> 01:00:29,583
This idea that Johnny mentions
in the letter

1067
01:00:29,667 --> 01:00:32,837
about tracking mud on someone's carpet,

1068
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:37,466
which is how he ends
this first letter to Bob,

1069
01:00:37,550 --> 01:00:43,139
became a really important
kind of purpose for Johnny Cash

1070
01:00:43,222 --> 01:00:47,101
in the dialogue of the movie,
that, urn, when we--

1071
01:00:47,184 --> 01:00:49,311
I don't mean the dialogue,
literally what people say.

1072
01:00:49,395 --> 01:00:51,939
I mean the kind of dialogue of ideas.

1073
01:00:52,022 --> 01:00:53,524
By the end of the picture,

1074
01:00:53,607 --> 01:00:57,403
it's very much Johnny Cash's
kind of creating a permission structure

1075
01:00:57,486 --> 01:01:00,531
for Bob to follow his desire

1076
01:01:00,614 --> 01:01:04,243
to play electric and to go headlong
into rock and roll.

1077
01:01:04,326 --> 01:01:05,995
<i>♪ It's a hard ♪</i>

1078
01:01:06,078 --> 01:01:09,832
<i>♪ It's a hard It's a hard ♪</i>

1079
01:01:09,915 --> 01:01:15,504
<i>♪ It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall ♪</i>

1080
01:01:16,672 --> 01:01:19,008
-<i>Thank you.</i>
-[audience cheering]

1081
01:01:25,639 --> 01:01:26,056
[Mangold] One of the inspirations,

1082
01:01:26,056 --> 01:01:26,140
[Mangold] One of the inspirations,

1083
01:01:26,140 --> 01:01:27,141
[Mangold] One of the inspirations,

1084
01:01:27,224 --> 01:01:29,560
when I first came on the movie

1085
01:01:29,643 --> 01:01:33,731
and started working on it five years ago,

1086
01:01:33,814 --> 01:01:36,150
<i>was the film Amadeus,</i>

1087
01:01:36,233 --> 01:01:40,154
which was directed by a mentor of mine,
Milos Forman...

1088
01:01:42,323 --> 01:01:45,034
who also happens to be
a mentor of Edward's.

1089
01:01:45,117 --> 01:01:49,538
Because Edward made a movie
a couple of decades ago with Miles,

1090
01:01:49,622 --> 01:01:50,873
who has since passed on,

1091
01:01:50,956 --> 01:01:53,876
but was a really important figure
for both of us,

1092
01:01:53,959 --> 01:01:59,632
in terms of creative guidance
and showing us how to make movies.

1093
01:01:59,715 --> 01:02:02,551
<i>I'm thinking we see
Toshi's family in Japan...</i>

1094
01:02:02,635 --> 01:02:06,639
But Milos made the film <i>Amadeus</i>
from the script by Peter Shaffer,

1095
01:02:06,722 --> 01:02:08,349
based on the play by Peter Shaffer,

1096
01:02:08,432 --> 01:02:11,685
and that, too, was
a kind of real template,

1097
01:02:11,769 --> 01:02:16,982
a kind of model I used when I was trying
to shape the script of this film.

1098
01:02:20,152 --> 01:02:22,196
Because there was
a very interesting aspect to that movie.

1099
01:02:22,279 --> 01:02:26,700
It's called <i>Amadeus,</i> of course, the first
name of Amadeus Mozart.

1100
01:02:26,784 --> 01:02:29,870
And that, ostensibly, is who the movie,
you'd think, would be about.

1101
01:02:29,954 --> 01:02:34,416
But the movie intensely follows
characters besides Mozart

1102
01:02:34,500 --> 01:02:36,794
and answers questions about Mozart

1103
01:02:36,877 --> 01:02:38,879
more through these characters,

1104
01:02:38,963 --> 01:02:40,631
these other supporting characters,

1105
01:02:40,714 --> 01:02:42,633
than through the central figure himself.

1106
01:02:42,716 --> 01:02:44,843
And, obviously, if you recall that film,

1107
01:02:44,927 --> 01:02:48,514
you'd remember F. Murray Abraham,
playing Salieri,

1108
01:02:48,597 --> 01:02:53,519
being the most dominating one and his
feelings of jealousy and frustration

1109
01:02:53,602 --> 01:03:00,067
that God would have given so much talent
to this young man over him.

1110
01:03:00,150 --> 01:03:02,736
But there's also a lot
of other key relationships--

1111
01:03:02,820 --> 01:03:06,115
with the king, with his wife,
and others in the movie.

1112
01:03:06,198 --> 01:03:09,368
And in very much many ways,
the way that film was constructed,

1113
01:03:09,451 --> 01:03:13,664
you learned about your hero, Amadeus,

1114
01:03:13,747 --> 01:03:16,083
through the reactions of others,

1115
01:03:16,166 --> 01:03:19,753
through the wake, in a sense,
he leaves in the water,

1116
01:03:19,837 --> 01:03:23,215
the afterburn that he leaves
on other characters.

1117
01:03:23,299 --> 01:03:26,385
And that was
a kind of strategic philosophy

1118
01:03:26,468 --> 01:03:28,262
I tried to follow a lot with this film,

1119
01:03:28,345 --> 01:03:30,806
which was somehow learning about Bob

1120
01:03:30,889 --> 01:03:33,058
through the way he interacts with others,

1121
01:03:33,142 --> 01:03:35,311
and the effects he has upon them.

1122
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,984
<i>♪ Show me the country ♪</i>

1123
01:03:42,067 --> 01:03:47,156
<i>♪ Where the bombs had to fall ♪</i>

1124
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,368
<i>♪ Show me the ruins ♪</i>

1125
01:03:51,452 --> 01:03:56,123
<i>♪ Of the buildings once so tall ♪</i>

1126
01:03:58,083 --> 01:04:02,796
[Mangold] We built this fairgrounds, the
stage and the surrounding set pieces,

1127
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:07,468
in a park in New Jersey
where we lived for a few weeks

1128
01:04:07,551 --> 01:04:10,304
doing all these Newport concert sequences.

1129
01:04:10,387 --> 01:04:16,393
And the Monterey sequence, as well, was a
different version of the same band shell,

1130
01:04:16,477 --> 01:04:17,978
reconstructed differently.

1131
01:04:18,979 --> 01:04:21,148
[audience cheering]

1132
01:04:21,231 --> 01:04:24,276
It was a miracle that the movie
gets to cross seasons.

1133
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:25,778
You know, we started shooting in March

1134
01:04:25,861 --> 01:04:29,073
and caught the very end of winter
and the leafless trees.

1135
01:04:29,156 --> 01:04:32,576
And then, by the time
we were shooting this in May,

1136
01:04:32,659 --> 01:04:35,037
we obviously had
the world in full blossom,

1137
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:38,207
which really helps when you're making a
movie covering four years,

1138
01:04:38,290 --> 01:04:41,627
that you really feel the seasons changing
on and off in the film.

1139
01:04:42,836 --> 01:04:44,421
<i>-That was beautiful.
-Thank you.</i>

1140
01:04:45,381 --> 01:04:46,548
<i>All right, all right.</i>

1141
01:04:46,632 --> 01:04:50,094
-[man] <i>Where's Bob?
-He is comin'. He's a-comin'.</i>

1142
01:04:50,177 --> 01:04:53,889
One of the things, you know,
I felt really interested to explore,

1143
01:04:55,557 --> 01:05:01,355
in trying to kind of
make a portrait of Bob Dylan,

1144
01:05:01,438 --> 01:05:07,111
was to not come in
with any preconceived notions.

1145
01:05:07,194 --> 01:05:11,573
Obviously, we want to portray him and have
him resemble the man who we've seen

1146
01:05:11,657 --> 01:05:14,618
in documentary footage and in photographs

1147
01:05:14,701 --> 01:05:17,121
and in writings and in his music.

1148
01:05:17,204 --> 01:05:22,000
But I also wanted to somehow
have the movie revealing something new,

1149
01:05:22,084 --> 01:05:24,586
having something new to share.

1150
01:05:24,670 --> 01:05:28,715
And, in many ways, that's his humanity.
You know, his yearnings.

1151
01:05:28,799 --> 01:05:31,510
And this shot, you see it so well,

1152
01:05:31,593 --> 01:05:35,180
which is his absolute fascination
with a band,

1153
01:05:35,264 --> 01:05:38,267
with someone who can go out
with his mates on stage

1154
01:05:38,350 --> 01:05:42,396
and, together,
make a big sound and a big impression.

1155
01:05:42,479 --> 01:05:45,357
And I think that was a huge thing for Bob,

1156
01:05:45,441 --> 01:05:51,947
his fascination and love for music and the
music made louder than folk music.

1157
01:05:53,740 --> 01:05:55,409
[audience cheering]

1158
01:05:57,494 --> 01:06:01,957
<i>♪ Now I taught the weeping
willow how to cry ♪</i>

1159
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:03,584
<i>♪ And I showed the clouds ♪</i>

1160
01:06:03,667 --> 01:06:05,377
<i>♪ How to cover up a clear, blue sky ♪</i>

1161
01:06:05,461 --> 01:06:09,673
The other thing this film
becomes is a kind of, for me, at least,

1162
01:06:09,756 --> 01:06:13,135
a meditation on what it is to be talented.

1163
01:06:13,218 --> 01:06:17,264
And that we use the term
often, for talent, as a gift.

1164
01:06:17,347 --> 01:06:20,601
We say "it's a gift." Right?
And it is, of course.

1165
01:06:20,684 --> 01:06:25,314
Some people just have a knack,
a kind of innate ability.

1166
01:06:25,397 --> 01:06:29,318
They start 18 spaces ahead
on the game board.

1167
01:06:29,401 --> 01:06:32,905
There's a kind of ability they have,
or an instinct they have,

1168
01:06:32,988 --> 01:06:34,907
that puts them so far out in front.

1169
01:06:34,990 --> 01:06:39,203
And certainly that's true
of many of the characters in this movie,

1170
01:06:39,286 --> 01:06:42,998
but none more so than Bob Dylan himself.

1171
01:06:43,081 --> 01:06:46,376
And-- But what I'm interested in
is not just observing,

1172
01:06:46,460 --> 01:06:49,171
yes, that they're talented,
that's obvious.

1173
01:06:49,254 --> 01:06:52,925
But what does it feel like
to have that kind of talent?

1174
01:06:53,008 --> 01:06:58,680
You know, again, remind yourself,
this is a movie about a guy,

1175
01:06:58,764 --> 01:07:03,227
between 19 and 24 years of age,
who, in that period,

1176
01:07:03,310 --> 01:07:06,980
wrote dozens of the most important songs
of the century.

1177
01:07:08,941 --> 01:07:10,776
What were we doing? What was I doing?

1178
01:07:10,859 --> 01:07:14,488
What were you doing
between 19 and 24 years of age?

1179
01:07:15,197 --> 01:07:16,782
In all likelihood,

1180
01:07:16,865 --> 01:07:21,703
not impacting the world and the culture as
profoundly as this guy did.

1181
01:07:21,787 --> 01:07:26,917
But the other half of that observation
that's really interesting is

1182
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:31,296
the questions about artistry
and celebrity.

1183
01:07:31,380 --> 01:07:33,215
Because they're
two separate things, right?

1184
01:07:33,298 --> 01:07:37,761
So, if you think about it,
artistry is what Bob's doing right here,

1185
01:07:37,844 --> 01:07:40,597
which is the writing
and performing of this song.

1186
01:07:41,515 --> 01:07:43,433
But celebrity is something else.

1187
01:07:43,517 --> 01:07:46,562
Celebrity often comes with great artistry,

1188
01:07:46,645 --> 01:07:50,440
which is that you become an idol.

1189
01:07:50,524 --> 01:07:53,277
You become a kind of icon or a symbol.

1190
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:56,029
You stop being, to many people, a person,

1191
01:07:56,113 --> 01:07:58,907
and you start being
a kind of movement or a symbol,

1192
01:07:58,991 --> 01:08:03,579
which everyone reads into
what they hope for, what they want.

1193
01:08:06,290 --> 01:08:07,916
What they believe.

1194
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:12,671
And they want you to keep being
the person they believe you should be,

1195
01:08:12,754 --> 01:08:17,342
or the rock star, or the symbol they want
as a kind of symbol.

1196
01:08:18,802 --> 01:08:21,346
And one of the things
I was trying to get at,

1197
01:08:21,430 --> 01:08:25,392
and I think Timmy
does so masterfully in these scenes,

1198
01:08:25,475 --> 01:08:29,187
is to both love coming out on stage
and performing his music

1199
01:08:29,271 --> 01:08:31,398
and wanting to share it with an audience,

1200
01:08:31,481 --> 01:08:36,278
but also that there's
a kind of ambivalence or hesitation

1201
01:08:36,361 --> 01:08:41,617
to fully embrace the love of an audience
or the adoration,

1202
01:08:41,700 --> 01:08:45,579
which I suspect can sometimes--

1203
01:08:45,662 --> 01:08:47,873
I mean, in my own way,
I can project making movies

1204
01:08:47,956 --> 01:08:49,374
and presenting them to people.

1205
01:08:49,458 --> 01:08:53,211
Sometimes you don't know
what to do with the kind words

1206
01:08:53,295 --> 01:08:56,965
and the powerful, passionate
feelings people have

1207
01:08:57,049 --> 01:08:58,592
about the work you've made.

1208
01:08:58,675 --> 01:09:02,179
And that's only something
I've had in my own small way.

1209
01:09:02,262 --> 01:09:06,099
But on the scale that Bob was
hitting people and moving them,

1210
01:09:06,183 --> 01:09:10,395
I think it's really interesting
to kind of observe it

1211
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:12,272
from a less judgmental point of view.

1212
01:09:12,356 --> 01:09:14,483
Meaning, you know,
there's been a lot of speculation

1213
01:09:14,566 --> 01:09:16,318
that he can be a difficult person,

1214
01:09:16,401 --> 01:09:19,321
or is a complex and eccentric person.

1215
01:09:19,404 --> 01:09:24,201
And all that may be true,
but he's also a person.

1216
01:09:24,284 --> 01:09:29,623
And living inside that skin and being that
person with all that pressure upon you

1217
01:09:29,706 --> 01:09:32,209
yields behaviors and reactions

1218
01:09:32,292 --> 01:09:36,546
that many of us can't ever know 'cause
we'll never get put in that position.

1219
01:09:38,548 --> 01:09:43,553
All of this that I'm saying is leading up
to this moment where he finishes the song

1220
01:09:43,637 --> 01:09:47,683
and he's greeted
by such passionate applause.

1221
01:09:47,766 --> 01:09:51,353
And we cut to Timmy, as Bob,

1222
01:09:51,436 --> 01:09:54,189
and his reaction is kind of numb

1223
01:09:54,272 --> 01:09:56,358
or ambivalent or not sure what--

1224
01:09:56,441 --> 01:09:59,277
What am I supposed to do
in the face of all this?

1225
01:10:00,862 --> 01:10:05,367
And I felt that was a really great place
to leave this character

1226
01:10:05,450 --> 01:10:09,454
in kind of Bob Dylan version one.

1227
01:10:09,538 --> 01:10:14,751
Go to black and arrive
and find Bob Dylan version two,

1230
01:10:16,545 --> 01:10:22,384
who is, a year later,
kind of a superstar at this point,

1231
01:10:22,467 --> 01:10:27,139
but still roaming and ambling
around the Village as a kind of icon.

1232
01:10:29,307 --> 01:10:33,770
But at this point has a level
of popularity and notoriety

1233
01:10:33,854 --> 01:10:35,856
and influence in the world

1234
01:10:35,939 --> 01:10:40,777
that is completely, staggeringly different
than the young man

1235
01:10:40,861 --> 01:10:44,865
who arrived with a dollar in his pocket
in the opening act of our movie.

1236
01:10:53,123 --> 01:10:54,458
[blows whistle]

1237
01:10:54,541 --> 01:10:59,421
And this is the same MacDougal Street
that we brought Bob

1238
01:10:59,504 --> 01:11:02,632
in his little newsboy cap
and his guitar case to.

1239
01:11:02,716 --> 01:11:06,678
This very corner is where he first crosses
on MacDougal Street

1240
01:11:06,762 --> 01:11:08,638
at the very beginning of the movie.

1241
01:11:08,722 --> 01:11:11,641
And now we find him in tailored clothes

1242
01:11:12,392 --> 01:11:13,894
on his badass motorcycle

1243
01:11:14,853 --> 01:11:16,646
and wearing Ray-Ben's at night...

1244
01:11:19,941 --> 01:11:21,985
and with that iconic hair.

1245
01:11:25,864 --> 01:11:26,823
[indistinct chatter]

1246
01:11:31,077 --> 01:11:32,162
[man] <i>He's here.</i>

1247
01:11:33,663 --> 01:11:36,166
<i>Excuse me, one second. Hey, Bob. Bobby.</i>

1248
01:11:36,249 --> 01:11:40,086
This scene, again, is a kind of a
reintroduction to a lot of characters.

1249
01:11:40,170 --> 01:11:43,298
We're seeing Sylvie is no longer with Bob.

1250
01:11:43,381 --> 01:11:46,510
He's got a different young woman
on his arm.

1251
01:11:47,427 --> 01:11:49,137
Things have moved on.

1252
01:11:49,221 --> 01:11:51,890
And you also--

1253
01:11:51,973 --> 01:11:54,351
I was trying very much
to just work with Timmy

1254
01:11:54,434 --> 01:11:59,439
on kind of carving out this
feeling that Bob feels put upon,

1255
01:11:59,523 --> 01:12:03,401
an alien, a kind of object, a commodity.

1256
01:12:04,903 --> 01:12:06,446
He walks in a party like this,

1257
01:12:06,530 --> 01:12:09,658
and everyone wants something
or wants to say something to him

1258
01:12:09,741 --> 01:12:11,368
or have a moment with him.

1259
01:12:11,451 --> 01:12:13,578
And they're hoping he sings.

1260
01:12:13,662 --> 01:12:20,460
So that it's dawning on us, perhaps, the
predicament a character like Dylan

1261
01:12:20,544 --> 01:12:25,382
or anyone else with this level of fame
and fandom gets to,

1262
01:12:25,465 --> 01:12:28,260
which is you kind of can't go anywhere

1263
01:12:28,343 --> 01:12:31,429
without someone wanting
something from you.

1264
01:12:31,513 --> 01:12:33,849
<i>What'd you pull me into, man?
Is this a fucking gig or something?</i>

1265
01:12:33,932 --> 01:12:38,478
In this case, this is a charity event
at Harold Leventhal's apartment

1266
01:12:38,562 --> 01:12:41,398
in which, you know,
Leventhal is telling him that,

1267
01:12:41,481 --> 01:12:44,943
"I kind of got all these people to shell
out the money and come here tonight

1268
01:12:45,026 --> 01:12:47,195
because they thought they
might hear you sing a song."

1269
01:12:47,279 --> 01:12:48,697
<i>This is my wife, Toshi.</i>

1270
01:12:48,780 --> 01:12:54,244
Which, of course, burns Bob out
because that means he's working.

1271
01:12:54,327 --> 01:12:57,414
He's not here to enjoy himself
like everyone else.

1272
01:12:57,497 --> 01:12:59,165
He's got to perform.

1273
01:12:59,249 --> 01:13:02,627
<i>All right. Well, don't hold it against
him. It's for a good cause.</i>

1274
01:13:02,711 --> 01:13:07,090
Pete Seeger sweeps in and masterfully
coaxes Bob into playing a song

1275
01:13:07,173 --> 01:13:08,842
and then joins him.

1276
01:13:08,925 --> 01:13:13,471
The only moment in the film, really,
where Pete and Bob actually sing together.

1277
01:13:13,555 --> 01:13:17,058
<i>♪ Oh the time will come up
When the winds will stop ♪</i>

1278
01:13:17,142 --> 01:13:21,479
<i>♪ And the breeze will cease
to be breathin' ♪</i>

1279
01:13:21,563 --> 01:13:23,773
<i>♪ Like the stillness in the wind ♪</i>

1280
01:13:23,857 --> 01:13:25,817
<i>♪ 'Fore the hurricane begins ♪</i>

1281
01:13:25,901 --> 01:13:30,405
<i>♪ The hour that the ship comes in ♪</i>

1282
01:13:30,488 --> 01:13:34,409
<i>♪ And the seas will split
And the ship will hit ♪</i>

1283
01:13:34,492 --> 01:13:36,661
<i>♪ And the sands on the shoreline ♪</i>

1284
01:13:36,745 --> 01:13:38,705
<i>♪ Will be shakin' ♪</i>

1285
01:13:38,788 --> 01:13:42,918
<i>♪ And the tide will sound
And the wind will pound ♪</i>

1286
01:13:43,001 --> 01:13:48,256
<i>♪ And the mornin' will be breakin' ♪</i>

1287
01:13:54,471 --> 01:13:58,308
[Mangold] We're now approaching a kind of
pivotal moment in an elevator sequence

1288
01:13:58,391 --> 01:14:03,730
that begins a new sequence
of Bob's discomfort in his own life

1289
01:14:03,813 --> 01:14:05,357
which we've seen signs of,

1290
01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:07,150
but as he enters this elevator,

1291
01:14:07,233 --> 01:14:10,528
we're also gonna introduce
the last really major new character

1292
01:14:10,612 --> 01:14:11,947
to arrive in the movie,

1293
01:14:12,030 --> 01:14:13,698
a character by the name of Bobby Neuwirth,

1294
01:14:13,782 --> 01:14:19,329
who became, in the mid-'60s,
a kind of protégé and sideman for Bob,

1295
01:14:19,412 --> 01:14:21,790
someone he met randomly

1296
01:14:21,873 --> 01:14:25,126
and was kind of a musician
and a charmer and an artist

1297
01:14:25,210 --> 01:14:29,005
who was rambling around through the scene
in New York at that time.

1298
01:14:29,089 --> 01:14:31,174
<i>Whatever it is they don't want me to be.</i>

1299
01:14:31,257 --> 01:14:34,886
We depict them kind of connecting
on this elevator scene...

1300
01:14:34,970 --> 01:14:36,346
<i>I'm not a horse, so...</i>

1301
01:14:36,429 --> 01:14:40,392
...and Bobby Neuwirth
kind of challenging Bob just very gently

1302
01:14:40,475 --> 01:14:46,106
about some of his bravado
and cynicism about his stardom

1303
01:14:46,189 --> 01:14:48,191
and obviously getting under Bob's skin.

1304
01:14:49,275 --> 01:14:52,654
One of the things
that was really clear in--

1305
01:14:52,737 --> 01:14:55,865
when I had the honor
and pleasure of hanging out with Bob Dylan

1306
01:14:55,949 --> 01:14:58,827
and asking him questions
about all these times

1307
01:14:58,910 --> 01:15:01,955
that we're re-creating in the movie--

1308
01:15:02,038 --> 01:15:04,541
One of the things he said
that was so interesting to me

1309
01:15:04,624 --> 01:15:10,755
is he talked about how lonely it is on
stage as a solo performer.

1310
01:15:10,839 --> 01:15:17,178
And the kind of loneliness he felt as a
folk performer going out on stage alone,

1311
01:15:17,262 --> 01:15:23,852
and how jealous he was
or admiring he was when he looked on,

1312
01:15:23,935 --> 01:15:27,522
as we show in the sequence
only about 20 minutes ago,

1313
01:15:27,605 --> 01:15:29,816
when he's watching Johnny Cash perform.

1314
01:15:29,899 --> 01:15:34,070
He's not just loving the fact that the
music is getting played with the band.

1315
01:15:34,154 --> 01:15:37,449
He was seeing the fact
that they had camaraderie,

1316
01:15:37,532 --> 01:15:40,535
that Johnny Cash had friends
he traveled with,

1317
01:15:40,618 --> 01:15:41,703
that he had mates,

1318
01:15:41,786 --> 01:15:43,913
that they were making music together,

1319
01:15:43,997 --> 01:15:47,417
that it wasn't--
all the pressure wasn't on one person.

1320
01:15:47,500 --> 01:15:51,629
And when I spent time
with the real Bob Dylan,

1321
01:15:51,713 --> 01:15:55,508
he really articulated that
that was as much of a reason

1322
01:15:55,592 --> 01:15:59,095
of him moving toward rock-and-roll music

1323
01:15:59,179 --> 01:16:03,058
as any, you know, more highfalutin ideas

1324
01:16:03,141 --> 01:16:06,436
of where music needed to go next,

1325
01:16:06,519 --> 01:16:10,106
that Bob felt isolated, he felt alone.

1326
01:16:10,190 --> 01:16:13,401
You know, as he articulated to me,

1327
01:16:13,485 --> 01:16:17,655
"Just imagine what it's like
to have to play literally alone on stage.

1328
01:16:17,739 --> 01:16:20,950
Just you, a mic
and a guitar for two hours."

1329
01:16:21,034 --> 01:16:24,287
And you ride there alone,
and you go home alone.

1330
01:16:24,370 --> 01:16:27,624
And that the idea of the burden

1331
01:16:27,707 --> 01:16:31,252
and the lack of kind of what,
here, I'm trying to show

1332
01:16:31,336 --> 01:16:33,046
in this scene where he goes
to see Neuwirth

1333
01:16:33,129 --> 01:16:35,840
with his own band at a small bar,

1334
01:16:35,924 --> 01:16:39,594
is just how much fun
it looks like they're having making music,

1335
01:16:39,677 --> 01:16:45,058
and how that aspect of music-making has
perhaps vanished from Bob's life

1336
01:16:45,141 --> 01:16:47,560
at this point in the story.

1337
01:16:47,644 --> 01:16:48,937
<i>♪ We had five million hogs ♪</i>

1338
01:16:49,020 --> 01:16:50,522
<i>♪ And six million... ♪</i>
-[woman 1] <i>That's him.</i>

1339
01:16:50,605 --> 01:16:53,525
<i>That's Bob fucking Dylan right there.</i>

1340
01:16:53,608 --> 01:16:54,692
-[man 1] <i>Where?</i>
-[woman 1] <i>No, that's him.</i>

1341
01:16:54,776 --> 01:16:56,027
-[man 2] <i>It's him!
{woman 1] Bob! Bob!</i>

1342
01:16:56,111 --> 01:16:57,570
[woman 2] <i>Bob.</i>

1343
01:16:57,654 --> 01:16:58,655
[woman 3] <i>Bob.</i>

1344
01:16:58,738 --> 01:16:59,948
[woman 4] <i>Bob. Bob.</i>

1345
01:17:00,031 --> 01:17:01,366
<i>Take your glasses off.
Let me see your eyes!</i>

1346
01:17:01,449 --> 01:17:03,284
-[Bob] <i>Hey, get off!</i>
-[man 3] <i>Fuck off!</i>

1347
01:17:03,368 --> 01:17:04,410
{Bob grunts]
-[crowd gasp]

1348
01:17:04,494 --> 01:17:05,954
[Bobby] <i>Hey, hey, hey.</i>

1349
01:17:06,996 --> 01:17:08,748
[man 4] <i>What are you doin' man?</i>

1350
01:17:13,086 --> 01:17:14,170
[knock on door]

1351
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:19,134
Here, Timmy and Elle are kind of reunited

1352
01:17:19,217 --> 01:17:22,428
when he goes to visit her at her apartment
now that they've broken up

1353
01:17:22,512 --> 01:17:25,348
and finds someone in her bed.

1354
01:17:25,431 --> 01:17:29,102
But it made sense to me
that he'd come to see Sylvie

1355
01:17:29,185 --> 01:17:32,730
at this moment of unraveling
in his own life,

1356
01:17:32,814 --> 01:17:36,943
looking for some kind of
equilibrium, if you will.

1357
01:17:37,026 --> 01:17:41,406
Because, really, she is
the only person in this story

1358
01:17:41,489 --> 01:17:44,325
who loved him when he was nobody.

1359
01:17:45,702 --> 01:17:48,913
I think Pete Seeger,
I could say that's true for,

1360
01:17:48,997 --> 01:17:52,167
but the intimacy
of this relationship was unique.

1361
01:17:52,250 --> 01:17:53,376
<i>Thanks.</i>

1362
01:18:04,554 --> 01:18:08,057
<i>You know, everyone asks where
these songs come from, Sylvie.</i>

1363
01:18:09,809 --> 01:18:11,227
<i>But when you watch their faces,</i>

1364
01:18:11,311 --> 01:18:13,897
<i>they're not asking
where the songs come from.</i>

1365
01:18:15,231 --> 01:18:18,526
When I wrote these lines for Bob,

1366
01:18:18,610 --> 01:18:23,990
I felt they were as close
as I wanted to come

1367
01:18:24,073 --> 01:18:27,952
to kind of putting into words,
spoken words,

1368
01:18:28,036 --> 01:18:31,706
the kind of loneliness and anxiety

1369
01:18:31,789 --> 01:18:34,250
and even paranoia he might be feeling.

1370
01:18:36,544 --> 01:18:41,466
So often I've seen when people
get to this kind of moment--

1371
01:18:41,549 --> 01:18:43,551
I mean, I've seen it more
with actors, obviously,

1372
01:18:43,635 --> 01:18:45,845
and the musicians
because of my profession--

1373
01:18:45,929 --> 01:18:48,306
but when people kind of explode

1374
01:18:48,389 --> 01:18:53,686
and become kind of an object
of interest for everyone,

1375
01:18:53,770 --> 01:19:00,485
there's this very unique way
that you can start to feel like prey,

1376
01:19:00,568 --> 01:19:04,113
like you are vulnerable
and everyone's hunting for you.

1377
01:19:07,283 --> 01:19:12,872
Even your own fans can approach you
sometimes with a kind of adoration,

1378
01:19:12,956 --> 01:19:16,292
but also they're carrying
these small knives

1379
01:19:16,376 --> 01:19:18,461
they stick in your ribs at the same time,

1380
01:19:18,544 --> 01:19:22,590
like missing your last album or wishing
you could do something like this again

1381
01:19:22,674 --> 01:19:25,927
or just these little remarks
that get in your head

1382
01:19:26,010 --> 01:19:31,140
and make it hard to really find
what you really should be doing.

1383
01:19:32,558 --> 01:19:35,144
And I think this whole sequence,
this montage--

1384
01:19:35,228 --> 01:19:38,940
Which, very much, Timmy and I made up.
We just took an afternoon.

1385
01:19:39,023 --> 01:19:41,150
And even this scene
on the phone with Albert

1386
01:19:41,234 --> 01:19:43,027
is something we just made up on set--

1387
01:19:43,111 --> 01:19:44,779
I didn't quite know what to do,

1388
01:19:44,862 --> 01:19:46,906
but Timmy and I just kind of found our way

1389
01:19:46,990 --> 01:19:48,741
of him playing in the apartment

1390
01:19:48,825 --> 01:19:51,661
and kind of having
this explosion of creativity

1391
01:19:51,744 --> 01:19:55,456
after he's isolated himself
from almost everyone in his world.

1392
01:19:55,540 --> 01:19:57,500
[I upbeat folk music playing,
"Subterranean Homesick Blues"]

1393
01:20:01,421 --> 01:20:04,924
<i>♪ Ah, get sick, get well
Hang around a ink well ♪</i>

1394
01:20:05,008 --> 01:20:07,719
<i>♪ Hang bell, hard to tell
If anything is goin' to sell ♪</i>

1395
01:20:07,802 --> 01:20:10,680
<i>♪ Try hard, get barred
Get back, write braille ♪</i>

1396
01:20:12,432 --> 01:20:13,975
[Mangold] One of the joys

1397
01:20:14,058 --> 01:20:16,602
and one of the things
that I'm very conscious of,

1398
01:20:16,686 --> 01:20:18,688
making a film like this

1399
01:20:18,771 --> 01:20:22,900
with such a wide array of unique
characters coming in and out,

1400
01:20:22,984 --> 01:20:24,569
is how much--

1401
01:20:24,652 --> 01:20:28,781
You know, as we see Norbert Leo Butz
arriving in the movie more forcefully

1402
01:20:28,865 --> 01:20:31,200
from this point out, playing Alan Lomax,

1403
01:20:31,284 --> 01:20:34,579
and P.J. Byrne, who's playing Leventhal
who we've met already--

1404
01:20:34,662 --> 01:20:40,877
I'm trying to kind of create
a fabric of depth in which you really--

1405
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:45,923
Everyone's believable. Everyone has a
character. Everyone has an agenda.

1406
01:20:46,007 --> 01:20:50,136
And so the movie has interesting
characters wherever you turn.

1407
01:20:50,219 --> 01:20:53,264
And, of course,
this is a scene separate from Bob,

1408
01:20:53,348 --> 01:20:55,475
one of the many, as I was describing,

1409
01:20:55,558 --> 01:20:57,018
where we leave him for a moment

1410
01:20:57,101 --> 01:21:00,355
and kind of go backstage
with other characters--

1411
01:21:00,438 --> 01:21:02,982
a scene in which we begin to sense

1412
01:21:03,066 --> 01:21:05,860
the stresses and tensions
arising in the folk movement

1413
01:21:05,943 --> 01:21:10,323
as their number one star,
their proponent and their kind of--

1414
01:21:10,406 --> 01:21:15,828
the face of folk music, Bob Dylan, is also
a management problem for them

1415
01:21:15,912 --> 01:21:20,625
because he's no longer really interested
anymore in playing folk music.

1416
01:21:20,708 --> 01:21:25,088
And yet, he's the single force that's
responsible for most of their audience.

1417
01:21:25,171 --> 01:21:29,967
So that contradiction obviously
historically created a lot of stress

1418
01:21:30,051 --> 01:21:32,136
for the pooh-bahs of the folk movement.

1419
01:21:32,220 --> 01:21:35,598
And this is a meeting
at what we call the Archive,

1420
01:21:35,681 --> 01:21:39,936
the folklore center where a lot
of planning of the trajectory

1421
01:21:40,019 --> 01:21:42,814
of the folk movement and
the Newport Concerts was made.

1422
01:21:42,897 --> 01:21:44,982
[Alan] <i>We are here
to celebrate folk music.</i>

1423
01:21:45,066 --> 01:21:47,735
<i>From the people, for the people, Pete.</i>

1424
01:21:47,819 --> 01:21:49,237
<i>The sound of a guitar</i>

1425
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:50,863
<i>-and a man's voice.
-[Harold] Ora woman's.</i>

1426
01:21:50,947 --> 01:21:52,115
<i>Alan, please. Let's calm down.</i>

1427
01:21:52,198 --> 01:21:53,282
[Alan] <i>Don't talk to me about
ticket sales, Harold.</i>

1428
01:21:53,366 --> 01:21:54,492
<i>-I don't give a shit'.
-[Harold] Okay.</i>

1429
01:21:57,412 --> 01:21:59,539
<i>Hey, Tom, give me a second,
I Want to fry something.</i>

1430
01:22:02,792 --> 01:22:07,839
I love this story about Bob, you know,
buying this whistle from a street vendor

1431
01:22:07,922 --> 01:22:11,759
and it finding its way into
the recording of "Highway 61

1432
01:22:12,718 --> 01:22:14,720
But the other thing that, you know,

1433
01:22:14,804 --> 01:22:16,013
when you're directing the movie,

1434
01:22:16,097 --> 01:22:18,099
that's what's happening on the surface,

1435
01:22:18,182 --> 01:22:20,351
but what is the other thing
you're feeling here?

1436
01:22:20,435 --> 01:22:22,854
You're feeling the camaraderie of a band.

1437
01:22:22,937 --> 01:22:25,064
Look at every one of these faces.

1438
01:22:25,148 --> 01:22:27,692
Bob Dylan's smiling.
Mike Bloomfield's smiling.

1439
01:22:27,775 --> 01:22:29,861
The rest of the band
is smiling and laughing.

1440
01:22:29,944 --> 01:22:32,113
They're having a good time.

1441
01:22:32,196 --> 01:22:35,074
And while you're absorbing
the song and the scene

1442
01:22:35,158 --> 01:22:37,577
and the whistle
and all those accoutrements,

1443
01:22:37,660 --> 01:22:40,538
I think, emotionally,
what you suddenly see

1444
01:22:40,621 --> 01:22:42,957
is this character
is suddenly blossoming again.

1445
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:45,126
He's just having a great time,

1446
01:22:45,209 --> 01:22:49,005
and everyone around him
is having a great time suddenly

1447
01:22:49,088 --> 01:22:51,966
with what he's beginning to play with and
how he's beginning to expand.

1448
01:22:52,049 --> 01:22:53,634
<i>♪ Abe said, "What?" ♪</i>

1449
01:22:53,718 --> 01:22:56,012
<i>♪ God said, "You can do
what you want, Abe ♪</i>

1450
01:22:56,095 --> 01:22:58,890
<i>♪ ”But the next time you see me comin' ♪</i>

1451
01:22:58,973 --> 01:23:00,641
<i>♪ "You better run" ♪</i>

1452
01:23:02,101 --> 01:23:04,937
This is one of
my favorite scenes in the movie,

1453
01:23:05,021 --> 01:23:07,482
and it was the one that was
the hardest to defend

1454
01:23:07,565 --> 01:23:09,859
when we were trying to figure out
the budget of the movie

1455
01:23:09,942 --> 01:23:11,569
'cause it was a scene in which you go,

1456
01:23:11,652 --> 01:23:14,280
"Is it required? Must you have this scene?

1457
01:23:14,363 --> 01:23:15,698
How does it advance the plot?"

1458
01:23:15,781 --> 01:23:18,868
I'm not even sure what the plot
of this movie is to be honest.

1459
01:23:18,951 --> 01:23:22,705
It's kind of a movie that's
just a slice-of-life movie,

1460
01:23:22,788 --> 01:23:26,667
of watching these characters
and their relationships change and develop

1461
01:23:26,751 --> 01:23:30,505
and the power relationships
between them change and evolve.

1462
01:23:30,588 --> 01:23:32,131
But what I loved about this scene

1463
01:23:32,215 --> 01:23:36,719
was how it cut from Bob
in the studio making "Highway 61"

1464
01:23:36,802 --> 01:23:38,679
with this rip-roaring sound,

1465
01:23:38,763 --> 01:23:44,727
and then we out to Pete Seeger
on a local public-access television studio

1466
01:23:44,810 --> 01:23:49,607
doing old-style folk music,

1467
01:23:49,690 --> 01:23:51,776
urn, holding down the fort, if you will,

1468
01:23:51,859 --> 01:23:53,444
keeping up the world of folk

1469
01:23:53,528 --> 01:23:59,116
although trying, as he will, to kind of
use new media and the TV studio,

1470
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:01,827
to spread the word of folk music.

1471
01:24:01,911 --> 01:24:03,371
[Jesse] <i>What kinda station is this anyway?</i>

1472
01:24:03,454 --> 01:24:04,705
<i>This is educational, Jesse.</i>

1473
01:24:04,789 --> 01:24:07,917
<i>This is a local public
educational channel, yeah.</i>

1474
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:11,504
And, you know, I try,
in my movies, not to pick sides.

1475
01:24:11,587 --> 01:24:14,215
You know, a lot of people,
when they talk about scripts or movies,

1476
01:24:14,298 --> 01:24:17,385
they'll talk about the good guy
or the bad guy, right?

1477
01:24:17,468 --> 01:24:21,389
Urn, I don't ever really talk
or think that way.

1478
01:24:21,472 --> 01:24:25,184
In the movie, I don't like
to think there's a good guy or a bad guy.

1479
01:24:25,268 --> 01:24:30,314
The truth is that even villains in movies,
even diabolical ones, they don't--

1480
01:24:30,398 --> 01:24:32,733
Characters don't wake up
every morning and go,

1481
01:24:32,817 --> 01:24:35,528
"How can I do an awful thing to someone?"

1482
01:24:35,611 --> 01:24:38,573
They usually, in their own way, think
they're making the world better.

1483
01:24:38,656 --> 01:24:41,158
Everyone thinks
they're making the world better.

1484
01:24:41,242 --> 01:24:44,829
They could be misguided,
they could be even sociopathic,

1485
01:24:44,912 --> 01:24:48,249
but they actually believe
they're making the world better.

1486
01:24:48,332 --> 01:24:53,462
And in this case we have two wonderful
characters in Bob Dylan and Pete Seeger,

1487
01:24:53,546 --> 01:24:56,048
each of whom who just have
a different view of the world

1488
01:24:56,132 --> 01:25:00,720
and see it differently and see their
artistic journey more differently.

1489
01:25:00,803 --> 01:25:03,848
Pete's a little more dogmatic
and a little more involved

1490
01:25:03,931 --> 01:25:08,811
in the ideas of folk music as being
supreme over all other kinds of music,

1491
01:25:08,894 --> 01:25:11,647
like many of the compatriots
of the folk music scene

1492
01:25:11,731 --> 01:25:16,235
who see this kind of innate value
in the stripped-down sound

1493
01:25:16,319 --> 01:25:18,988
of just a man or woman and a guitar.

1494
01:25:19,989 --> 01:25:21,949
Bob doesn't have that same dogma.

1495
01:25:22,033 --> 01:25:23,993
He doesn't have that same agenda.

1496
01:25:24,076 --> 01:25:26,704
He just likes music of all kinds.

1497
01:25:26,787 --> 01:25:29,665
And this is just another wonderful moment

1498
01:25:29,749 --> 01:25:34,754
to see Bob in Pete's world
trying, as he will,

1499
01:25:34,837 --> 01:25:38,591
to kind of both evolve as an artist as he
is in the studio at this time

1500
01:25:38,674 --> 01:25:42,887
with this rock music he knows
which would displease Pete,

1501
01:25:42,970 --> 01:25:46,974
but at the same time attending to Pete and
coming to be a guest on his show,

1502
01:25:47,058 --> 01:25:51,354
and jamming with the wonderful Big Bill
Morganfield who plays Jesse Moffette,

1503
01:25:51,437 --> 01:25:55,524
who's kind of famous-- a kind of
amalgamation of, you know, Muddy Waters

1504
01:25:55,608 --> 01:25:57,735
and other blues singers that we created

1505
01:25:57,818 --> 01:26:00,655
to kind of represent
that wing of folk music

1506
01:26:00,738 --> 01:26:03,157
and roots music that was also flourishing,

1507
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:07,411
which was the blues--
the Delta blues and the Chicago blues.

1508
01:26:08,579 --> 01:26:09,997
<i>Well, I was watching real close, Jesse.</i>

1509
01:26:10,081 --> 01:26:12,416
<i>I got these special binoculars, right?</i>

1510
01:26:12,500 --> 01:26:15,044
<i>And they allow me to see into your soul.</i>

1511
01:26:15,127 --> 01:26:19,090
Bill had never acted before
and, urn, is just a...

1512
01:26:19,173 --> 01:26:21,676
[stammers] ...is strictly a musician.

1513
01:26:21,759 --> 01:26:24,428
Although, after this movie,
I think he'll be acting more

1514
01:26:24,512 --> 01:26:27,390
'cause he's phenomenal
in this scene with Timmy.

1515
01:26:27,473 --> 01:26:29,016
<i>It's okay. All right. Just
don't squeeze her too tight.</i>

1516
01:26:30,101 --> 01:26:31,644
<i>-It's all right, Pete?
-Oh, yeah.</i>

1517
01:26:31,727 --> 01:26:33,312
<i>It's a family station. You can...</i>

1518
01:26:33,396 --> 01:26:35,189
<i>As long as I don't squeeze her too tight.</i>

1519
01:26:35,272 --> 01:26:36,440
[Jesse laughs]

1520
01:26:36,524 --> 01:26:38,567
<i>Then it's all right.
I'm gonna... watch this.</i>

1521
01:26:40,152 --> 01:26:42,321
[♪ blues music playing]

1522
01:26:43,531 --> 01:26:45,408
I love what Edward's doing in this scene,

1523
01:26:45,491 --> 01:26:48,911
which is you feel
this phenomenal sense of pride,

1524
01:26:48,994 --> 01:26:55,126
kind of paternal pride, that Timmy's
character, Bob, has come through for him

1525
01:26:55,209 --> 01:26:57,378
and shown up at his small TV studio

1526
01:26:57,461 --> 01:27:00,589
to add his star power to this show.

1527
01:27:00,673 --> 01:27:04,427
And to watch kind of
both wings of folk music,

1528
01:27:04,510 --> 01:27:10,975
the totally real, authentic
Delta blues of Jesse Moffette

1529
01:27:11,058 --> 01:27:14,937
being combined with the kind of
new age, '60s-forward,

1530
01:27:15,020 --> 01:27:16,897
rock-and-roll folk of Bob Dylan,

1531
01:27:16,981 --> 01:27:21,944
and Pete kind of presiding
almost like a diplomat over this meeting.

1532
01:27:22,027 --> 01:27:24,739
<i>♪ Oh, baby, I've been lovin' you ♪</i>

1533
01:27:26,532 --> 01:27:29,535
<i>♪ Well, I ride on a mail train, babe ♪</i>

1534
01:27:29,618 --> 01:27:32,371
<i>♪ I can't buy no thrill ♪</i>

1535
01:27:34,373 --> 01:27:36,959
<i>♪ And I've been up all night, babe ♪</i>

1536
01:27:37,042 --> 01:27:39,795
<i>♪ I'm leaning on the windowsill ♪</i>

1537
01:27:43,007 --> 01:27:44,467
<i>Here we are, man.</i>

1538
01:27:46,218 --> 01:27:50,264
We shot this sequence
even before we started production

1539
01:27:50,347 --> 01:27:53,142
outside the Hotel Chelsea.

1540
01:27:53,225 --> 01:27:55,936
The Chelsea Hotel is one of
the landmarks of kind of--

1541
01:27:56,020 --> 01:27:57,980
in rock-and-roll history in New York.

1542
01:27:58,063 --> 01:27:59,648
So many things have happened there.

1543
01:28:00,858 --> 01:28:03,694
We actually couldn't shoot
in New York on a weekday,

1544
01:28:03,778 --> 01:28:07,323
so we scheduled these as kind of
weekend pre-shoot days,

1545
01:28:07,406 --> 01:28:10,284
where we got, you know,
the courthouse scenes in New York,

1546
01:28:10,367 --> 01:28:11,952
exterior of the Chelsea Hotel,

1547
01:28:12,036 --> 01:28:14,789
also that earlier scene
with Joan running out of the Chelsea

1548
01:28:14,872 --> 01:28:16,707
during the Cuban missile crisis.

1549
01:28:16,791 --> 01:28:21,420
This is a set we built on our stages
in New Jersey of the hallway and the room,

1550
01:28:21,504 --> 01:28:23,881
Joan's room at the Chelsea.

1551
01:28:23,964 --> 01:28:25,216
[knocking at doors]

1552
01:28:37,269 --> 01:28:40,147
I always love this moment
where Bob knocks on all the doors

1553
01:28:40,231 --> 01:28:42,817
'cause he can't remember
which is Joan's room.

1554
01:28:42,900 --> 01:28:47,571
And these are just bits of behavior that
you try and put in the script

1555
01:28:47,655 --> 01:28:50,199
or find with your actors even on set.

1556
01:28:50,282 --> 01:28:53,118
And they may not always
be advancing the story,

1557
01:28:53,202 --> 01:28:56,789
but part of what makes,
I think, movies like this work

1558
01:28:56,872 --> 01:28:59,458
when they do work,
and I hope this one does,

1559
01:28:59,542 --> 01:29:02,795
is that you really enjoy the characters

1560
01:29:02,878 --> 01:29:05,923
and watching them getting pressed up
against the world.

1561
01:29:06,006 --> 01:29:08,259
And I have to be very conscious that,

1562
01:29:08,342 --> 01:29:11,053
while I wanna keep advancing
the story forward,

1563
01:29:11,136 --> 01:29:15,599
I also just wanna be enjoying
these actors in their roles

1564
01:29:15,683 --> 01:29:17,351
and watching their behavior.

1565
01:29:19,645 --> 01:29:23,607
Of course for me, in my mind,
as Joan is waking up

1566
01:29:23,691 --> 01:29:29,822
and finding Bob writing yet another song
feverishly in her cramped hotel room,

1567
01:29:29,905 --> 01:29:33,284
what I'm trying to lean on here
is the difference between these two.

1568
01:29:33,367 --> 01:29:36,287
Joan is not, by and large, a songwriter

1569
01:29:36,370 --> 01:29:40,749
and Bob is, centrally
and first and foremost,

1570
01:29:40,833 --> 01:29:44,420
a kind of volcanically
prolific songwriter,

1571
01:29:44,503 --> 01:29:48,465
and that that in itself
is a kind of wedge between them

1572
01:29:48,549 --> 01:29:53,679
where Joan is a kind of amazing
performer and presence and musician

1573
01:29:53,762 --> 01:29:59,685
and with a voice beyond compare
in terms of its angelic beauty,

1574
01:29:59,768 --> 01:30:02,229
but Bob has this other thing,

1575
01:30:02,313 --> 01:30:06,859
this ability to just generate a song
at 3:00 a.m. in the room,

1576
01:30:06,942 --> 01:30:09,862
and that kind of puts
a little bit of a wedge between them.

1577
01:30:17,661 --> 01:30:20,664
<i>♪ That he not busy
being born is busy dying ♪</i>

1578
01:30:20,748 --> 01:30:21,874
[Joan sighs]

1579
01:30:28,714 --> 01:30:30,007
When you're blocking scenes,

1580
01:30:30,090 --> 01:30:33,302
you know, you don't want a scene
like this to be too cutty

1581
01:30:33,385 --> 01:30:34,595
when you have actors this good

1582
01:30:34,678 --> 01:30:37,056
who can kind of make the scene
function within a frame,

1583
01:30:37,139 --> 01:30:39,308
and I think you'll see this
in many other instances.

1584
01:30:39,391 --> 01:30:44,104
But one of the advantages I had
was this wonderful circular mirror

1585
01:30:44,188 --> 01:30:48,984
that our set dresser put on
this side table in Joan's room.

1586
01:30:49,068 --> 01:30:54,114
So it allowed me to actually have a
two-shot of Joan over there,

1587
01:30:54,198 --> 01:30:57,368
while also looking at Bob at the table

1588
01:30:57,451 --> 01:30:59,495
so that I barely needed to cut the scene

1589
01:30:59,578 --> 01:31:03,165
'cause I had kind of everything
I needed in one frame.

1590
01:31:03,248 --> 01:31:05,960
Even if you notice earlier,
the scene opens,

1591
01:31:06,043 --> 01:31:07,795
we cocked the mirror
a different direction--

1592
01:31:07,878 --> 01:31:11,882
not that you necessarily notice it
watching it unless I point it out to you--

1593
01:31:11,966 --> 01:31:14,510
so that even there
you're seeing Bob's reflection

1594
01:31:14,593 --> 01:31:16,887
or other things in the room in the mirror.

1595
01:31:16,971 --> 01:31:20,057
Mirrors are incredibly helpful
when you're shooting and blocking

1596
01:31:20,140 --> 01:31:21,892
if you can use them creatively.

1597
01:31:21,976 --> 01:31:23,102
<i>okay-</i>

1598
01:31:25,604 --> 01:31:28,732
<i>You know, Albert booked us
on a tour, Joan.</i>

1599
01:31:30,150 --> 01:31:31,527
<i>People, you know, on tour,</i>

1600
01:31:31,610 --> 01:31:34,446
<i>they typically sing songs together.</i>

1601
01:31:34,530 --> 01:31:36,407
<i>Somebody's gotta write those songs.</i>

1602
01:31:38,075 --> 01:31:39,952
<i>It's my fucking guitar.</i>

1603
01:31:42,830 --> 01:31:44,456
<i>See ya on tour.</i>

1604
01:31:44,540 --> 01:31:49,336
This next scene is a kind of encapsulation
of a tour that Joan and Bob did

1605
01:31:49,420 --> 01:31:51,005
which was fraught with conflict

1606
01:31:51,088 --> 01:31:53,215
in which they toured as a pair,

1607
01:31:53,298 --> 01:31:56,885
singing together and separately
and making a show together.

1608
01:31:56,969 --> 01:31:59,346
A lot of this scene,
almost all of this scene,

1609
01:31:59,430 --> 01:32:01,598
was improvised between the two actors,

1610
01:32:01,682 --> 01:32:04,810
meaning the very beginning of this scene
where they're singing this song

1611
01:32:04,893 --> 01:32:06,895
and then she starts playing
"Blowin' in the Wind"

1612
01:32:06,979 --> 01:32:08,230
and he says, "I don't want to do that,"

1613
01:32:08,313 --> 01:32:10,232
that I had written down.

1614
01:32:10,315 --> 01:32:15,070
But then what proceeds with this riff
that Timmy ends up doing

1615
01:32:15,154 --> 01:32:18,949
about his guitar breaking
and his bus catching fire

1616
01:32:19,033 --> 01:32:21,035
and arguing with the audience,

1617
01:32:21,118 --> 01:32:23,579
that all just happened on the night.

1618
01:32:23,662 --> 01:32:25,330
Particularly of note

1619
01:32:25,414 --> 01:32:28,208
is how wonderful
the background artists were in the film,

1620
01:32:28,292 --> 01:32:31,462
background artists meaning
what's commonly called extras.

1621
01:32:31,545 --> 01:32:35,007
Even though you hardly see them
because of the way we lit this scene,

1622
01:32:35,090 --> 01:32:38,635
there's about 150, 200 people out there,

1623
01:32:38,719 --> 01:32:43,974
and they're reacting to this concert
that Monica and Timmy are doing,

1624
01:32:44,058 --> 01:32:48,270
but they're also interacting
with our actors, particularly Timmy,

1625
01:32:48,353 --> 01:32:53,108
booing and shouting catcalls
at him as he refuses to play the song.

1626
01:32:53,192 --> 01:32:56,737
And that, I think, really
inspired Timmy to take the scene

1627
01:32:56,820 --> 01:32:59,573
to places that I had
never expected in the script.

1628
01:32:59,656 --> 01:33:02,701
<i>They already got that song on the record.
Pick another song.</i>

1629
01:33:02,785 --> 01:33:04,203
<i>Joan, choose somethin' else.</i>

1630
01:33:04,286 --> 01:33:07,039
<i>You guys wanna hear
"Blowin' in the Wind," right?</i>

1631
01:33:07,122 --> 01:33:09,458
-[audience cheering]
<i>-Nah, man, /don '2'... Look...</i>

1632
01:33:09,541 --> 01:33:11,627
<i>It's why they came here, Bob.</i>

1633
01:33:11,710 --> 01:33:13,629
<i>Nah, I don't believe they
came here to hear that song.</i>

1634
01:33:13,712 --> 01:33:15,255
<i>'Cause I don't believe the set list...</i>

1635
01:33:15,339 --> 01:33:16,423
[indistinct shouting]

1636
01:33:16,507 --> 01:33:19,301
<i>I don't believe a set list was advertised.</i>

1637
01:33:19,384 --> 01:33:20,385
<i>No, no set list...</i>

1638
01:33:20,469 --> 01:33:23,263
<i>Unless that draconian figure</i>

1639
01:33:23,347 --> 01:33:26,683
<i>from, uh, Chicago, United States up there
promised songs...</i>

1640
01:33:26,767 --> 01:33:30,062
[Mangold] The look of this scene was also
based very much on the look

1641
01:33:30,145 --> 01:33:32,648
of the real concerts
that Joan and Bob did,

1642
01:33:32,731 --> 01:33:36,485
where they just had, you know,
two mic stands and two stools,

1643
01:33:36,568 --> 01:33:39,029
and they were cross side lit in this way,

1644
01:33:39,113 --> 01:33:44,076
with really strong spotlights coming from
the right and left and front of stage.

1645
01:33:44,159 --> 01:33:49,998
And it produced this great look, you know,
with this severe back light on Bob and Joan

1646
01:33:50,082 --> 01:33:52,668
as you shoot them
over their shoulders toward the crowd.

1647
01:33:52,751 --> 01:33:55,337
<i>My guitar broke. Yeah.</i>

1648
01:33:55,420 --> 01:33:56,588
<i>Hey, listen man, don't get mad.</i>

1649
01:33:56,672 --> 01:33:58,674
<i>Hey, the truth is</i>

1650
01:33:58,757 --> 01:34:00,801
-<i>it broke on the way here.</i>
-[Albert] <i>Oh, come on, Bob!</i>

1651
01:34:00,884 --> 01:34:02,886
[Bob] <i>No. Hey, man.</i>

1652
01:34:02,970 --> 01:34:06,056
<i>The bus I came to actually
caught fire on the way here</i>

1653
01:34:06,140 --> 01:34:07,349
<i>and my guitar ain't even on me right now.</i>

1654
01:34:07,432 --> 01:34:09,476
<i>So, I'm gonna just go see
the guitar doctor backstage.</i>

1655
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:11,436
<i>Or something, you know.</i>

1656
01:34:11,520 --> 01:34:15,941
You may notice in this film lens flares,
you know, when-- like right there--

1657
01:34:16,024 --> 01:34:19,486
when sharp, strong
lighting sources hit these lenses.

1658
01:34:19,570 --> 01:34:23,866
Lens flares are something that have pretty
much been engineered out of lenses now.

1659
01:34:23,949 --> 01:34:27,452
Lenses have gotten so refined
with computer technology

1660
01:34:27,536 --> 01:34:28,745
that, in the modern sense,
it's very hard to create a lens flare

1661
01:34:28,745 --> 01:34:28,829
that, in the modern sense,
it's very hard to create a lens flare

1662
01:34:28,829 --> 01:34:31,039
that, in the modern sense,
it's very hard to create a lens flare

1663
01:34:31,123 --> 01:34:34,585
because the lenses have become
so perfectly machined

1664
01:34:34,668 --> 01:34:38,213
that they can even handle
incredibly bright sources of light

1665
01:34:38,297 --> 01:34:40,340
aiming right into the lens.

1666
01:34:40,424 --> 01:34:42,467
Part of the period look of the movie

1667
01:34:42,551 --> 01:34:46,889
was to try and use lenses
that might produce these flares

1668
01:34:46,972 --> 01:34:49,433
like they did in those days, in the '60s.

1669
01:34:49,516 --> 01:34:52,144
So we actually used vintage lenses.

1670
01:34:52,227 --> 01:34:54,021
We didn't use many lenses on the movie.

1671
01:34:54,104 --> 01:34:57,941
Almost the whole film was shot
with a 30 mm anamorphic,

1672
01:34:58,025 --> 01:35:00,360
that prime lens, for every shot.

1673
01:35:00,444 --> 01:35:04,323
But the lens kit we used was really old

1674
01:35:04,406 --> 01:35:07,326
and had just been repaired
and kind of refined,

1675
01:35:07,409 --> 01:35:10,996
but that's part of the reason
you get those wonderful lens flare effects

1676
01:35:11,079 --> 01:35:12,581
in the anamorphic lenses,

1677
01:35:12,664 --> 01:35:15,667
is that it's very, as we say, old glass.

1678
01:35:19,254 --> 01:35:20,714
[humming]

1679
01:35:22,299 --> 01:35:27,596
<i>♪ Railroad Bill, Railroad Bill ♪</i>

1680
01:35:28,805 --> 01:35:33,352
<i>♪ Never worked and he never will ♪</i>

1681
01:35:33,435 --> 01:35:37,397
<i>♪ And it's ride, ride, ride ♪</i>

1682
01:35:37,481 --> 01:35:38,649
[Bob playing harmonica]

1683
01:35:44,696 --> 01:35:47,950
[Mangold] This is another sequence
showing the advancing nature

1684
01:35:48,033 --> 01:35:50,702
of Bob's rock-and-roll
explorations in the studio,

1685
01:35:50,786 --> 01:35:54,706
but also, more than anything,
again this sense of camaraderie.

1686
01:35:54,790 --> 01:35:57,209
Bobby Neuwirth is now part of his team.

1687
01:35:57,292 --> 01:36:00,921
The band itself, who are all shown
arriving for work this morning

1688
01:36:01,004 --> 01:36:03,006
as he's playing with Bobby here,

1689
01:36:03,090 --> 01:36:06,802
it's kind of the team arriving
to the locker room, in a sense,

1690
01:36:06,885 --> 01:36:08,804
to perform their roles for the day.

1691
01:36:08,887 --> 01:36:12,182
<i>♪ Said if I didn't like it
He would take my life ♪</i>

1692
01:36:12,266 --> 01:36:17,437
<i>♪ I'm gonna ride, ride, ride ♪</i>

1693
01:36:17,521 --> 01:36:20,190
[Mangold] And this story
with Al Kooper comes from reality,

1694
01:36:20,274 --> 01:36:25,195
that Al Kooper was invited
to the sessions as a second guitarist.

1695
01:36:25,279 --> 01:36:27,155
But they already had a guitarist.

1696
01:36:27,239 --> 01:36:29,574
And so, there was really
nothing for him to do

1697
01:36:29,658 --> 01:36:31,118
except sit in the control room.

1698
01:36:31,201 --> 01:36:36,498
And he snuck back in the studio
and got on an organ

1699
01:36:36,581 --> 01:36:43,547
and added, urn, what was and is the most
iconic part of "Rolling Stone" musically,

1700
01:36:43,630 --> 01:36:46,049
which is this kind of
great organ part underneath it.

1701
01:36:46,133 --> 01:36:48,176
[chuckles nervously]

1702
01:36:48,260 --> 01:36:51,013
<i>I don't care about money.
I wanna play, man.</i>

1703
01:36:51,096 --> 01:36:52,681
<i>No one's on organ.</i>

1704
01:36:52,764 --> 01:36:54,891
<i>You don't play keyboards, AI.</i>

1705
01:36:54,975 --> 01:36:56,310
[I instrumental music tuning, playing]

1706
01:37:00,439 --> 01:37:02,691
[Bob] <i>Still, don't even worry
about what we're doin'.</i>

1707
01:37:02,774 --> 01:37:03,775
<i>Play like you're in the room alone.</i>

1708
01:37:03,859 --> 01:37:05,068
[Mike] <i>All right.</i>

1709
01:37:05,152 --> 01:37:06,445
[Bob] <i>Play for yourself,
it's gonna sound better.</i>

1710
01:37:06,528 --> 01:37:08,947
-[Mike] <i>All right.</i>
-[Bob] <i>Uh...</i>

1711
01:37:09,031 --> 01:37:12,909
[Mangold] I'm so lucky Charlie Tahan
came on to play Al Kooper,

1712
01:37:12,993 --> 01:37:17,456
and I'm so lucky to have actors like this,
wonderfully talented actors,

1713
01:37:17,539 --> 01:37:21,668
who also bring so much of their own unique
personality and vibe to the movie.

1714
01:37:21,752 --> 01:37:23,545
Charlie brings, immediately,

1715
01:37:23,628 --> 01:37:28,675
this kind of comedic, disheveled sense of
uniqueness that is Al Kooper,

1716
01:37:28,759 --> 01:37:31,678
and, immediately,
Bob takes a liking to him.

1717
01:37:41,104 --> 01:37:43,523
<i>♪ Once upon a time you dressed so fine ♪</i>

1718
01:37:43,607 --> 01:37:45,984
<i>♪ Threw the bums a dime in your prime ♪</i>

1719
01:37:47,069 --> 01:37:47,986
<i>♪ Didn't you? ♪</i>

1720
01:37:49,571 --> 01:37:53,075
<i>Newport never seen threads
like these, man.</i>

1721
01:37:53,158 --> 01:37:55,660
[Mangold] We see how far we've come
at this point in the movie

1722
01:37:55,744 --> 01:38:02,709
where Bob seeing Pete Seeger outside the
window becomes more like seeing Dad.

1723
01:38:02,793 --> 01:38:04,878
You know, like, "Oh, God. Dad's here."

1724
01:38:04,961 --> 01:38:11,593
And I don't think it speaks, in any way,
to Bob not having real love for Pete,

1725
01:38:11,676 --> 01:38:14,971
but there is a generational difference
between them and there was.

1726
01:38:15,055 --> 01:38:20,977
And also, Bob felt really confined by the
dogma of the folk music world

1727
01:38:21,061 --> 01:38:24,523
and what they considered to be true music

1728
01:38:24,606 --> 01:38:28,610
and what they considered to be
false or threatening music,

1729
01:38:28,693 --> 01:38:31,446
and Bob had no such recognition.

1730
01:38:31,530 --> 01:38:32,697
[car engine starts]

1731
01:38:32,781 --> 01:38:34,366
<i>Be careful on that thing.</i>

1732
01:38:35,575 --> 01:38:36,993
[car driving off]

1733
01:38:44,084 --> 01:38:45,419
<i>Hey, Sylvie.</i>

1734
01:38:46,837 --> 01:38:50,132
[Mangold] Here you have Bob coming back
to pick up Sylvie

1735
01:38:50,215 --> 01:38:52,592
and invite her to go up to Newport.

1736
01:38:52,676 --> 01:38:54,302
<i>Sylvie!</i>

1737
01:38:54,386 --> 01:38:56,388
You know, in many ways--
There's a thing in drama

1738
01:38:56,471 --> 01:38:59,474
called the obligatory scene or sequence.

1739
01:38:59,558 --> 01:39:02,644
In playwriting,
it used to be called the obligatory scene,

1740
01:39:02,727 --> 01:39:04,521
and it's kind of like
in a mystery play, you know,

1741
01:39:04,604 --> 01:39:08,150
where Hercule Poirot
or Sherlock Holmes will get everyone

1742
01:39:08,233 --> 01:39:10,485
into the same salon together

1743
01:39:10,569 --> 01:39:16,158
and announce who killed who
with a candlestick in which room.

1744
01:39:16,241 --> 01:39:19,327
And the reason we call it
the obligatory scene,

1745
01:39:19,411 --> 01:39:21,997
at least in old dramatical theory,

1746
01:39:22,080 --> 01:39:26,418
is it's the scene in which
all the characters you've met

1747
01:39:26,501 --> 01:39:29,254
through the journey
of the play or the film

1748
01:39:29,337 --> 01:39:34,634
are all present for this one kind of
obligatory scene in which they come--

1749
01:39:34,718 --> 01:39:38,346
they all arrive representing
all the different story forces,

1750
01:39:38,430 --> 01:39:42,851
character forces, desires
and intentions that they have.

1751
01:39:42,934 --> 01:39:46,563
Newport, in this movie,
the Newport '65 Concert,

1752
01:39:46,646 --> 01:39:49,941
is essentially the obligatory sequence,

1753
01:39:50,025 --> 01:39:56,573
where you've got Joan, Bob,
Sylvie, Pete, all of them.

1754
01:39:56,656 --> 01:39:59,159
Everyone's here. Johnny Cash.

1755
01:39:59,242 --> 01:40:02,245
Anyone you've met in the movie
is basically in Newport '65.

1756
01:40:02,329 --> 01:40:05,665
And so this becomes
our kind of culminating sequence

1757
01:40:05,749 --> 01:40:07,667
in the last reel of the movie

1758
01:40:07,751 --> 01:40:12,672
in which Bob decides to unleash
the music he's been hiding in the studio

1759
01:40:13,298 --> 01:40:15,008
to his folk family.

1760
01:40:15,091 --> 01:40:18,094
It's interesting 'cause
when you talk to Bob about this period

1761
01:40:18,178 --> 01:40:20,972
and the choice to end up coming to Newport

1762
01:40:21,056 --> 01:40:23,433
and playing rock and roll
at a folk concert,

1763
01:40:23,517 --> 01:40:28,605
even he is not sure why things went down
exactly as they did.

1764
01:40:28,688 --> 01:40:32,859
But I tried, in dramatizing it,
to view it as an emotional act.

1765
01:40:32,943 --> 01:40:37,155
That, in a way,
he was feeling more and more boxed in,

1766
01:40:37,239 --> 01:40:39,741
similar to the guy who left Minnesota,

1767
01:40:39,824 --> 01:40:41,952
boxed in by his family and his world,

1768
01:40:42,035 --> 01:40:45,497
that he couldn't be
the artist he wanted to be.

1769
01:40:46,289 --> 01:40:47,749
He was no longer free.

1770
01:40:47,832 --> 01:40:52,212
And I think that, following Dylan's life
and reading about it,

1771
01:40:52,295 --> 01:40:56,007
it seems to me that an awful lot of the
moves he's made in his life

1772
01:40:56,091 --> 01:41:00,011
are about maintaining freedom
to be wherever--

1773
01:41:00,095 --> 01:41:03,932
to be whatever kind of person
and artist he wants to be.

1774
01:41:04,015 --> 01:41:06,142
<i>She ended up alone in that movie.</i>

1775
01:41:06,226 --> 01:41:08,270
<i>No, she didn't.</i>

1776
01:41:08,353 --> 01:41:10,397
<i>They got together when they were older.</i>

1777
01:41:10,480 --> 01:41:11,815
[Bobby] <i>Knock, knock.</i>

1778
01:41:12,732 --> 01:41:14,192
<i>Choose your weapon, General.</i>

1779
01:41:14,276 --> 01:41:15,860
<i>You got this guest thing
with Joan in a half hour.</i>

1780
01:41:16,695 --> 01:41:17,529
<i>That one.</i>

1781
01:41:17,612 --> 01:41:19,739
<i>Yes, sir.</i>

1782
01:41:23,368 --> 01:41:25,245
<i>I'll meet you back here later?</i>

1783
01:41:25,328 --> 01:41:26,413
<i>Why?</i>

1784
01:41:26,496 --> 01:41:28,582
<i>I'd like to catch that.</i>

1785
01:41:28,665 --> 01:41:30,875
[Albert] <i>You're on right now. Let's go.</i>

1786
01:41:30,959 --> 01:41:32,127
<i>- You're running.
-[Bob] All right, Albert.</i>

1787
01:41:32,210 --> 01:41:34,004
-<i>Hold your horses.</i>
-[Albert] <i>Come on. Come on.</i>

1788
01:41:34,087 --> 01:41:35,922
<i>Let's go, let's go. Up.
Go, go, go. Come on.</i>

1789
01:41:36,006 --> 01:41:37,591
-[Bob] <i>Okay, right in there?</i>
-[Bobby] <i>Right in there.</i>

1790
01:41:37,674 --> 01:41:38,717
<i>Okay, we're running, we're running.</i>

1791
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:39,843
<i>Okay, all right.</i>

1792
01:41:39,926 --> 01:41:41,761
<i>-Hey, Pete.
-Hey, amigo, how are you?</i>

1793
01:41:41,845 --> 01:41:43,138
<i>-Hi, Sylvie!
-Pete!</i>

1794
01:41:43,221 --> 01:41:44,306
<i>I haven't seen you in a while.</i>

1795
01:41:44,389 --> 01:41:45,974
<i>-Oh, okay.
-How's it going?</i>

1796
01:41:46,057 --> 01:41:49,394
<i>Oh, it's all just jubilation
through and through. Couldn't be better.</i>

1797
01:41:49,477 --> 01:41:51,521
-[Alan] <i>Hey, Bobby!
-Hello, darlin'. How are you?</i>

1798
01:41:52,731 --> 01:41:54,608
[Mangold] This is also
the only scene in the movie--

1799
01:41:54,691 --> 01:41:56,651
Elle and Monica often joke

1800
01:41:56,735 --> 01:42:00,614
their only scene together is just the look
they exchange in a few moments

1801
01:42:00,697 --> 01:42:03,325
as Bob joins Joan on stage.

1802
01:42:03,408 --> 01:42:07,996
The point of this becomes
the bringing the triangle, as well,

1803
01:42:08,079 --> 01:42:10,832
between these three characters
to full fruition.

1804
01:42:10,915 --> 01:42:14,127
And, of course,
Sylvie's growing realization

1805
01:42:14,210 --> 01:42:17,005
that what she had with Bob
she can no longer have,

1806
01:42:17,088 --> 01:42:21,551
that she may love him purely,
that she may have known him the longest,

1807
01:42:21,635 --> 01:42:24,262
that she may be there
for all the right reasons,

1808
01:42:24,346 --> 01:42:27,307
not because of anything
she's gonna get out of it

1809
01:42:27,390 --> 01:42:29,726
other than loving this young man,

1810
01:42:29,809 --> 01:42:35,023
but that the possibility
of that relationship surviving

1811
01:42:35,106 --> 01:42:41,821
this scale of fame and fortune
is pretty hard to imagine.

1812
01:42:41,905 --> 01:42:43,740
<i>♪ The sky is erupting ♪</i>

1813
01:42:43,823 --> 01:42:48,578
<i>♪ I must go where it's quiet ♪</i>

1814
01:42:50,872 --> 01:42:52,791
[audience cheering]

1815
01:42:52,874 --> 01:42:53,958
<i>Thank you.</i>

1816
01:42:55,627 --> 01:42:58,838
<i>How about saying hello to the man who
wrote that one? Come on out, Bobby.</i>

1817
01:42:58,922 --> 01:43:03,009
[Mangold] Also, this explores, you know,
the emotional complexity

1818
01:43:03,093 --> 01:43:05,011
that a lot of us in show business find,

1819
01:43:05,095 --> 01:43:07,681
which is that, you know, it's really hard.

1820
01:43:07,764 --> 01:43:11,226
You experience this kind of closeness with
the people you make movies with,

1821
01:43:11,309 --> 01:43:13,645
or the people you're on stage with,

1822
01:43:13,728 --> 01:43:18,274
that is more intimate or intense than
almost anything else in your life.

1823
01:43:18,358 --> 01:43:20,527
And yet, you do all have a home life.

1824
01:43:20,610 --> 01:43:24,364
You all have a real life,
you know, that isn't on stage.

1825
01:43:24,447 --> 01:43:28,243
And the collision of these two worlds,
as happens in this scene,

1826
01:43:28,326 --> 01:43:29,994
is sometimes toxic,

1827
01:43:30,078 --> 01:43:34,624
makes it impossible to have a kind of
conventionally successful domestic life

1828
01:43:34,708 --> 01:43:38,878
because you have these two worlds that
are, in some ways, trying to compete

1829
01:43:38,962 --> 01:43:42,674
and asking for all your time,
love and attention.

1830
01:43:44,134 --> 01:43:48,638
<i>♪ You say you're lookin' for someone ♪</i>

1831
01:43:48,722 --> 01:43:51,057
<i>♪ Never weak but always strong ♪</i>

1832
01:43:51,141 --> 01:43:54,519
And in a way this becomes a scene
in which Sylvie has to watch,

1833
01:43:54,602 --> 01:43:57,313
even if their relationship is not active,

1834
01:43:57,397 --> 01:44:01,568
the magic and the chemistry
between Bob and Joan.

1835
01:44:01,651 --> 01:44:03,611
And she has to kind of
reconcile with that.

1836
01:44:03,695 --> 01:44:04,821
Can I live with this?

1837
01:44:04,904 --> 01:44:09,033
Can I live with being
this invisible person,

1838
01:44:09,117 --> 01:44:14,330
as she later calls herself,
a spinning plate in this world

1839
01:44:14,414 --> 01:44:17,375
in which he exists with so many people,

1840
01:44:17,459 --> 01:44:19,627
with such intense relationships,

1841
01:44:19,711 --> 01:44:22,046
and, of course,
even an intense relationship

1842
01:44:22,130 --> 01:44:24,883
with all the millions
and hundreds of thousands of strangers

1843
01:44:24,966 --> 01:44:27,177
in this audience
and out there in the world

1844
01:44:27,260 --> 01:44:29,471
through the magic of records and radio.

1845
01:44:29,554 --> 01:44:31,723
<i>♪ Go lightly from the ledge, babe ♪</i>

1846
01:44:31,806 --> 01:44:35,769
<i>♪ Go lightly on the ground ♪</i>

1847
01:44:37,020 --> 01:44:39,731
In a way, it's almost
like a sex scene, uh,

1848
01:44:39,814 --> 01:44:42,150
that, you know,
the way these two sing together,

1849
01:44:42,233 --> 01:44:45,695
the way they connect,
the way they look at each other,

1850
01:44:45,779 --> 01:44:48,364
it's like she's having
to watch them be together

1851
01:44:48,448 --> 01:44:53,703
in a way that is almost just as hard as it
would be watching them making out.

1852
01:44:56,873 --> 01:44:58,458
These sequences are also--

1853
01:44:58,541 --> 01:45:01,169
You know, you'll see visual effects
credits at the end of the movie

1854
01:45:01,252 --> 01:45:03,713
and you may wonder, "Well,
where are the visual effects?

1855
01:45:03,797 --> 01:45:06,549
There's no aliens
or spaceships flying through."

1856
01:45:06,633 --> 01:45:08,885
But, of course, you know,
this is a mid-priced movie,

1857
01:45:08,968 --> 01:45:15,225
and we couldn't possibly afford to do a
concert for 100,000 people, so...

1858
01:45:15,308 --> 01:45:17,602
[stammers] ...paying them all
and feeding them all lunch,

1859
01:45:17,685 --> 01:45:22,315
and keeping them, you know, planted in
their seats all day while we shot.

1860
01:45:22,398 --> 01:45:25,360
So most of these sequences
at Newport were shot

1861
01:45:25,443 --> 01:45:30,782
with, you know, no more than 200 extras
each day and many days, less.

1862
01:45:30,865 --> 01:45:36,704
And the rest is the magic of an incredibly
skilled visual effects team

1863
01:45:36,788 --> 01:45:41,042
who would extend our audiences both in the
sequences you saw earlier in the film

1864
01:45:41,125 --> 01:45:44,128
in Carnegie Hall and Town Hall
and many others,

1865
01:45:44,212 --> 01:45:49,133
but also here at Newport where, after the
first six or seven rows of people,

1866
01:45:49,217 --> 01:45:52,637
the rest of the people
are all completely generated

1867
01:45:52,720 --> 01:45:55,265
through the power of visual effects.

1868
01:45:55,348 --> 01:46:00,436
Like even in a shot like this,
urn, just above the microphone,

1869
01:46:00,520 --> 01:46:02,021
our real people run out

1870
01:46:02,105 --> 01:46:04,691
and the rest are completely simulated.

1871
01:46:04,774 --> 01:46:06,734
[chuckles] Simulated audience,

1872
01:46:06,818 --> 01:46:08,444
beautifully done by our team.

1873
01:46:08,528 --> 01:46:10,154
[audience cheering]

1874
01:46:10,238 --> 01:46:13,908
<i>You could play basketball
with those polka dots.</i>

1875
01:46:13,992 --> 01:46:14,993
<i>Yeah, take that shirt off, man.</i>

1876
01:46:15,076 --> 01:46:16,911
<i>You look like a goddamn clown.</i>

1877
01:46:16,995 --> 01:46:18,621
<i>Anybody here see where Sylvie went?</i>

1878
01:46:18,705 --> 01:46:20,373
[♪ rock music playing over radio]

1879
01:46:20,456 --> 01:46:22,542
<i>Hey, Bobby.</i>

1880
01:46:22,625 --> 01:46:24,210
<i>Hey, you know where Sylvie is?</i>

1881
01:46:24,294 --> 01:46:26,421
<i>She split while you were
playing with Joan.</i>

1882
01:46:26,504 --> 01:46:29,799
[Mangold] I would be remiss if I didn't
mention the two brilliant editors

1883
01:46:29,883 --> 01:46:32,760
who worked with me on this movie,
Drew Buckland and Scott Morris,

1884
01:46:32,844 --> 01:46:36,055
who had a monumental task
for several reasons with me.

1885
01:46:36,139 --> 01:46:40,977
One is, this is a kind of movie
that is really found--

1886
01:46:41,060 --> 01:46:44,981
you know, it's very much
the script that Jay and I wrote,

1887
01:46:45,064 --> 01:46:48,610
but still, because it's not plot-driven,

1888
01:46:48,693 --> 01:46:50,570
the rhythm and the drive of the movie

1889
01:46:50,653 --> 01:46:52,447
is something that is found
in the cutting room.

1890
01:46:52,530 --> 01:46:57,660
And how it's gonna work, and how you make
sure you're staying connected to Bob,

1891
01:46:57,744 --> 01:47:01,080
and at the same time,
all the other characters,

1892
01:47:01,164 --> 01:47:04,500
and keeping all these,
to use my own metaphor in the script,

1893
01:47:04,584 --> 01:47:07,712
to keep all these plates spinning
is an incredible feat.

1894
01:47:07,795 --> 01:47:10,048
And we did all this in record time,

1895
01:47:10,131 --> 01:47:15,094
because, you know, as I'm sitting here
talking, it's December of 2024,

1896
01:47:15,178 --> 01:47:17,972
and we just finished shooting
this movie in mid-June.

1897
01:47:18,056 --> 01:47:20,308
So all of post on this movie,

1898
01:47:20,391 --> 01:47:24,354
the mixing, the scoring, the sound
effects, everything, color grade,

1899
01:47:24,437 --> 01:47:28,775
and the editing, of course, the editing of
what was, what could have been--

1900
01:47:28,858 --> 01:47:30,860
I mean, I could have made
a four-hour movie--

1901
01:47:30,944 --> 01:47:35,990
all occurred in a very brief window of
aggressive and highly creative work.

1902
01:47:37,158 --> 01:47:39,661
<i>♪ All day and all of the night ♪</i>

1903
01:47:39,744 --> 01:47:45,625
I took the inspiration for this scene from
sequences in <i>On the Waterfront.</i>

1904
01:47:45,708 --> 01:47:49,170
There's a sequence with Brando
and, I believe, Eva Marie Saint

1905
01:47:49,253 --> 01:47:53,049
kind of dealing with each other
on and around a fence,

1906
01:47:53,132 --> 01:47:56,594
and I somehow imagined
this scene would be really powerful

1907
01:47:56,678 --> 01:47:58,972
if they weren't just
standing talking to each other

1908
01:47:59,055 --> 01:48:01,349
but there was a kind of
barrier between them.

1909
01:48:03,476 --> 01:48:04,519
<i>Come on.</i>

1910
01:48:10,441 --> 01:48:11,693
<i>What are you doing?</i>

1911
01:48:12,568 --> 01:48:13,778
<i>Where are you going?</i>

1912
01:48:14,737 --> 01:48:15,822
<i>I'm going home.</i>

1913
01:48:15,905 --> 01:48:17,991
<i>Why?</i>

1914
01:48:18,908 --> 01:48:20,368
<i>It was fun to be</i>

1915
01:48:20,451 --> 01:48:22,286
<i>on the carnival train with you, Bobby,</i>

1916
01:48:24,372 --> 01:48:26,207
<i>but I think I gotta step off.</i>

1917
01:48:28,918 --> 01:48:32,964
<i>I feel like one of those plates, you know,</i>

1918
01:48:33,047 --> 01:48:34,882
<i>that the French guy spins on those sticks</i>

1919
01:48:34,966 --> 01:48:36,342
<i>on The Sullivan Show.</i>

1920
01:48:37,969 --> 01:48:40,096
<i>Oh, I kinda like that guy.</i>

1921
01:48:41,931 --> 01:48:45,351
Again, this is just beautiful work
between Elle and Timmy

1922
01:48:45,435 --> 01:48:47,895
and their long-standing friendship.

1923
01:48:47,979 --> 01:48:50,273
And I've known Elle
for many years as well,

1924
01:48:50,356 --> 01:48:51,774
because there was a time we were working

1925
01:48:51,858 --> 01:48:53,735
on another movie together
that almost happened,

1926
01:48:53,818 --> 01:48:57,697
where we had spent a lot of time talking
and working, and to me that's everything.

1927
01:48:57,780 --> 01:49:01,617
You know, to get performances--
I'm very proud of these.

1928
01:49:01,701 --> 01:49:05,788
To get these kind of performances,
it's really up to the actors,

1929
01:49:05,872 --> 01:49:10,793
but the biggest thing that I contribute, I
think, is a couple notes,

1930
01:49:10,877 --> 01:49:15,465
perhaps wise, about ideas
or avenues that they're missing.

1931
01:49:15,548 --> 01:49:20,386
But more than anything, creating the space
around them to do their work,

1932
01:49:20,470 --> 01:49:25,224
to just create the mental space
around them to focus and do their work.

1933
01:49:25,308 --> 01:49:27,060
And that means
I kind of have to be a sponge

1934
01:49:27,143 --> 01:49:30,271
and try and absorb
all the scheduling pressures,

1935
01:49:30,354 --> 01:49:33,274
financial pressures,
concerns from the studio,

1936
01:49:33,357 --> 01:49:36,694
whatever it is that might be
in my ear any given day,

1937
01:49:36,778 --> 01:49:38,696
location pressures, weather pressures,

1938
01:49:38,780 --> 01:49:41,991
tomorrow's work, scheduling changes--

1939
01:49:42,075 --> 01:49:43,910
try and keep it all away from them

1940
01:49:43,993 --> 01:49:47,789
so that they can be, in a sense,
pure with the material,

1941
01:49:47,872 --> 01:49:49,665
and not have their heads clouded.

1942
01:50:03,304 --> 01:50:09,602
This sequence and Edward's telling of the
story of the seesaw and the two baskets

1943
01:50:09,685 --> 01:50:12,897
was a real writing challenge
but also an acting challenge,

1944
01:50:12,980 --> 01:50:17,693
in the sense that it's a kind of moment
for Pete where he's trying,

1945
01:50:17,777 --> 01:50:21,906
however gently and with good nature,

1946
01:50:21,989 --> 01:50:26,911
to convince Bob to just let them have
one more concert,

1947
01:50:26,994 --> 01:50:31,332
one more year of the old Bob
doing the same old thing,

1948
01:50:31,415 --> 01:50:33,876
instead of the new Bob
doing the new thing.

1949
01:50:33,960 --> 01:50:35,044
And it was Edward

1950
01:50:35,128 --> 01:50:40,716
who suggested we perhaps investigate
this parable that Pete loved to tell

1951
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:45,471
about these baskets and the seesaw, and I
wrote this into this scene,

1952
01:50:45,555 --> 01:50:50,143
and I'm really proud of Edward's work in
this scene, and-- but also Timmy's.

1953
01:50:50,226 --> 01:50:54,063
I think it's really lovely
to see these two characters

1954
01:50:54,147 --> 01:50:58,401
who we met so long ago
in that hospital room together,

1955
01:50:58,484 --> 01:51:00,862
and to see how far
their lives have changed

1956
01:51:00,945 --> 01:51:02,697
and their relationship has changed.

1957
01:51:03,489 --> 01:51:04,949
[Pete] <i>It's a good story.</i>

1958
01:51:05,032 --> 01:51:06,534
[Albert chuckles] <i>Okay.</i>

1959
01:51:06,617 --> 01:51:08,661
<i>Bob needs his rest, all right?</i>

1960
01:51:08,744 --> 01:51:10,371
<i>We all need our rest.</i>

1961
01:51:10,454 --> 01:51:12,832
<i>It's all right.
Let him tell his story, AI.</i>

1962
01:51:14,041 --> 01:51:16,252
<i>Come on, give it to me good, Pete.</i>

1963
01:51:16,335 --> 01:51:18,921
<i>All right. Imagine, we got a seesaw.</i>

1964
01:51:19,005 --> 01:51:20,673
<i>Seesaw?
-[Pete] Yeah.</i>

1965
01:51:20,756 --> 01:51:22,425
<i>Okay.</i> [chuckles]

1966
01:51:22,508 --> 01:51:25,052
<i>One end of it, it's anchored
firm to the ground</i>

1967
01:51:25,136 --> 01:51:27,972
<i>'cause it's got
a basket full of rocks on it.</i>

1968
01:51:28,055 --> 01:51:30,141
<i>The other end, it's floating up here,</i>

1969
01:51:30,224 --> 01:51:32,935
<i>way up in the air
and wishin' it could come down</i>

1970
01:51:33,019 --> 01:51:35,229
<i>but all it's got is a basket
that's half full of sand</i>

1971
01:51:35,313 --> 01:51:37,356
<i>and the sand is leaking out all the time.</i>

1972
01:51:37,440 --> 01:51:38,649
<i>Okay, now...</i>

1973
01:51:38,733 --> 01:51:39,734
<i>Could you get me a cigarette, man?</i>

1974
01:51:39,817 --> 01:51:41,319
[Pete] <i>We see this situation.</i>

1975
01:51:41,402 --> 01:51:43,738
[Mangold] This is
as good a time as any to take a moment

1976
01:51:43,821 --> 01:51:47,366
and talk about my working
relationship with Timmy,

1977
01:51:47,450 --> 01:51:52,163
which is a point
of incredible pride for me on this movie.

1978
01:51:52,246 --> 01:51:54,707
I really love him. He's a great person.

1979
01:51:54,790 --> 01:51:57,710
He's also an incredibly gifted actor.

1980
01:51:57,793 --> 01:51:59,420
But beyond the gifts

1981
01:51:59,503 --> 01:52:03,382
and beyond the friendliness
and trust in our relationship,

1982
01:52:03,466 --> 01:52:09,472
he also brought something else to this
movie, which was an incredible focus.

1983
01:52:09,555 --> 01:52:13,809
He really, during the period we were
shooting this movie earlier this year,

1984
01:52:13,893 --> 01:52:16,604
kind of shut out everything else

1985
01:52:16,687 --> 01:52:20,983
and focused everything he had on this job.

1986
01:52:21,067 --> 01:52:24,862
You know, we would talk a few times a week
at night after we wrapped,

1987
01:52:24,946 --> 01:52:27,031
and kind of go over the next day's work.

1988
01:52:27,114 --> 01:52:30,534
And he spent all the rest of his time
basically just trying to keep up

1989
01:52:30,618 --> 01:52:34,163
with whatever the next song
he was gonna have to play in the movie was

1990
01:52:34,247 --> 01:52:39,627
and kind of be on target, and ready to do
it proficiently on the day.

1991
01:52:39,710 --> 01:52:44,257
Monumental task for a guy who hadn't ever
touched a guitar before 2019.

1992
01:52:44,340 --> 01:52:50,346
And the level of focus,
and the level of concentration he had

1993
01:52:50,429 --> 01:52:54,976
on entering the skin of this character is
something I've only seen a few times

1994
01:52:55,059 --> 01:52:56,686
with actors in my career.

1995
01:52:56,769 --> 01:53:00,982
And I'm honored to have made
this movie with him

1996
01:53:01,065 --> 01:53:04,151
and consider him my partner
making this film.

1997
01:53:04,235 --> 01:53:09,282
He's been with me from the very beginning
and we've been connected through it all.

1998
01:53:09,365 --> 01:53:12,493
And, you know, it's one
of those friendships,

1999
01:53:12,576 --> 01:53:15,997
like with many other wonderful
people who worked on this movie

2000
01:53:16,080 --> 01:53:19,458
including Edward and Danny Fogler
and all the others--

2001
01:53:19,542 --> 01:53:24,046
You go through something together making a
movie that is hard to explain

2002
01:53:24,130 --> 01:53:25,840
because it's really hard work.

2003
01:53:25,923 --> 01:53:27,925
You're waking up at 5:00 am.

2004
01:53:28,009 --> 01:53:29,760
You're having to
make these scenes work every day.

2005
01:53:29,844 --> 01:53:32,847
And whatever it is, it's what's gonna live
forever in the movie.

2006
01:53:32,930 --> 01:53:34,598
Sometimes you're up all night.

2007
01:53:34,682 --> 01:53:37,852
The sequences coming up
of the Newport concert at night

2008
01:53:37,935 --> 01:53:43,316
are all shot with us shooting from,
you know, 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.,

2009
01:53:43,399 --> 01:53:48,279
and so we're all exhausted,
we're stressed,

2010
01:53:48,362 --> 01:53:52,658
we're trying our best
to do something great and hoping it is.

2011
01:53:52,742 --> 01:53:56,620
And that kind of focus
and taking care of yourself

2012
01:53:56,704 --> 01:53:58,873
and making sure you get your sleep,

2013
01:53:58,956 --> 01:54:01,000
and making sure you're ready
for the next day's work,

2014
01:54:01,083 --> 01:54:02,877
and making sure you understand it--

2015
01:54:02,960 --> 01:54:04,086
It's not just knowing your lines

2016
01:54:04,170 --> 01:54:07,006
but understanding your lines
and what's behind them.

2017
01:54:07,089 --> 01:54:11,052
That kind of focus,
I've never had a troupe of actors

2018
01:54:11,135 --> 01:54:13,054
who were so supportive of each other

2019
01:54:13,137 --> 01:54:16,932
and so focused and inspired
by the task at hand.

2020
01:54:18,184 --> 01:54:19,602
<i>All we're talkin' about is tonight.</i>

2021
01:54:19,685 --> 01:54:20,895
<i>He's scared of your music, Bob.</i>

2022
01:54:20,978 --> 01:54:22,688
[Pete]<i> Nobody's scared of anybody's music.</i>

2023
01:54:22,772 --> 01:54:23,689
<i>You are. You're scared that the kids</i>

2024
01:54:23,773 --> 01:54:25,107
<i>out on that lawn might like it.</i>

2025
01:54:25,191 --> 01:54:26,484
<i>And why would I be afraid of that?</i>

2026
01:54:26,567 --> 01:54:28,694
<i>Because you're pushing candles
and he's selling light bulbs.</i>

2027
01:54:28,778 --> 01:54:29,862
<i>Albert, there's only one of us</i>

2028
01:54:29,945 --> 01:54:30,905
<i>who's focused on how much we're selling</i>

2029
01:54:30,988 --> 01:54:31,947
<i>and it ain't me.</i>

2030
01:54:32,031 --> 01:54:34,283
<i>-Hey, Bobby, Bobby...
-[door opens]</i>

2031
01:54:37,495 --> 01:54:39,872
I love this scene between Boyd and Timmy,

2032
01:54:39,955 --> 01:54:42,792
and again, it's kind of one
of these scenes that I got asked about.

2033
01:54:42,875 --> 01:54:44,126
Do we need it? Right?

2034
01:54:44,210 --> 01:54:49,131
But I really fiercely defended it because
I love the energy in the scene

2035
01:54:49,215 --> 01:54:52,593
from Bob's perspective,
being an admirer of Johnny Cash,

2036
01:54:52,676 --> 01:54:55,846
seeing him kind of dishevelled
and perhaps a little hungover,

2037
01:54:55,930 --> 01:55:00,142
and in its own way,
a kind of reality check,

2038
01:55:00,226 --> 01:55:03,979
that even when you get a band
and even when you have all this success,

2039
01:55:04,063 --> 01:55:06,899
no one is necessarily happy all the time.

2040
01:55:06,982 --> 01:55:08,442
But it also becomes a scene

2041
01:55:08,526 --> 01:55:12,363
in which Johnny Cash ends up
kind of setting him straight

2042
01:55:12,446 --> 01:55:16,409
and giving his own perspective
on this whole controversy

2043
01:55:16,492 --> 01:55:18,828
of whether Bob should
perform electric or not.

2044
01:55:20,287 --> 01:55:21,664
<i>okay-</i>

2045
01:55:21,747 --> 01:55:24,083
- <i>This yours ?
- Yeah.</i>

2046
01:55:24,166 --> 01:55:25,793
<i>Hey, man, you got a cigarette?</i>

2047
01:55:25,876 --> 01:55:26,961
<i>Yeah.</i>

2048
01:55:27,920 --> 01:55:29,004
<i>Thanks.</i>

2049
01:55:30,131 --> 01:55:31,924
<i>Let me get outta your way.</i>

2050
01:55:32,883 --> 01:55:34,009
[bottle shatters]

2051
01:55:34,093 --> 01:55:36,720
<i>A guy I knew in the Air Force
had a Triumph.</i>

2052
01:55:37,430 --> 01:55:38,681
[car engine starts]

2053
01:55:40,307 --> 01:55:42,101
Whenever I show friends this scene,

2054
01:55:42,184 --> 01:55:43,644
they all worry about the fact

2055
01:55:43,727 --> 01:55:46,981
that we're denting
these beautiful cars on either side

2056
01:55:47,064 --> 01:55:49,358
as Johnny slams his way back and forth.

2057
01:55:49,442 --> 01:55:54,029
Fear not, these cars were all repaired and
given back to their proper owners.

2058
01:55:54,113 --> 01:55:56,949
And he didn't even do
that much damage, to be honest.

2059
01:55:59,618 --> 01:56:01,996
- <i>Want a Bugle ?
-Nah.</i>

2060
01:56:02,079 --> 01:56:04,039
<i>You playing tonight?</i>

2061
01:56:04,123 --> 01:56:06,083
<i>Yeah, that's what the program says,</i>

2062
01:56:08,461 --> 01:56:09,587
<i>but I'm not sure they wanna hear</i>

2063
01:56:09,670 --> 01:56:11,255
<i>what I wanna play, Johnny.</i>

2064
01:56:11,338 --> 01:56:12,673
<i>Who's they?</i>

2065
01:56:12,756 --> 01:56:16,427
I love Timmy's use of his hands
in this movie, if you notice it.

2066
01:56:16,510 --> 01:56:22,892
He really applied a great deal of
observation to the way Bob uses his hands,

2067
01:56:22,975 --> 01:56:25,227
which is extremely unique.

2068
01:56:25,311 --> 01:56:28,230
And not only that, but to
the length of his fingernails,

2069
01:56:28,314 --> 01:56:32,151
which he grew to a very healthy length
during the course of production.

2070
01:56:32,234 --> 01:56:34,778
<i>Track some mud on the carpet.</i>

2071
01:56:34,862 --> 01:56:37,448
[strumming guitar]

2072
01:56:37,531 --> 01:56:43,037
With this shot, we begin kind of the
descent into the big night of Newport '65

2073
01:56:43,120 --> 01:56:45,706
and Bob playing electric for the crowd.

2074
01:56:45,789 --> 01:56:48,751
And very much like
a showdown at the O.K. Corral,

2075
01:56:48,834 --> 01:56:52,171
this kind of becomes
a little bit of a western

2076
01:56:52,254 --> 01:56:57,843
with Bob mounting up and heading
to the O.K. Corral, bringing his axe.

2077
01:56:58,677 --> 01:57:00,387
[audience cheering]

2078
01:57:00,471 --> 01:57:02,681
[man] <i>How crazy is it'
gonna be tonight, Bob?</i>

2079
01:57:02,765 --> 01:57:04,475
[Bob] <i>Uh, pretty crazy. Come check it out.</i>

2080
01:57:04,558 --> 01:57:06,894
[woman] <i>It's sold out. We can't hear it.</i>

2081
01:57:06,977 --> 01:57:08,354
<i>I'll sing louder.</i>

2082
01:57:08,437 --> 01:57:10,439
[crowd clamoring]

2083
01:57:10,523 --> 01:57:13,442
<i>♪ Old hammer ♪
-♪ Let your hammer ring ♪</i>

2084
01:57:13,526 --> 01:57:16,362
<i>♪ Won't you ring old hammer? ♪</i>

2085
01:57:16,445 --> 01:57:17,821
<i>♪ Let your hammer ring ♪</i>

2086
01:57:17,905 --> 01:57:20,157
<i>So? How are we?</i>

2087
01:57:21,116 --> 01:57:22,785
<i>I think he understands.</i>

2088
01:57:22,868 --> 01:57:25,162
<i>♪ Let your hammer ring... ♪</i>

2089
01:57:29,542 --> 01:57:31,669
<i>♪ Let your hammer ring ♪</i>

2090
01:57:31,752 --> 01:57:35,422
<i>♪ Broke the handle on my hammer ♪</i>

2091
01:57:35,506 --> 01:57:37,883
This shot, if any,
is the best illustration

2092
01:57:37,967 --> 01:57:40,010
of what I mean by an obligatory scene.

2093
01:57:40,094 --> 01:57:45,349
Everyone's there--
his band, Grossman, Bobby Neuwirth, Lomax,

2094
01:57:45,432 --> 01:57:50,354
Leventhal, Joan, Johnny Cash, everybody.

2095
01:57:50,437 --> 01:57:52,856
<i>♪ Let your hammer ring ♪</i>

2096
01:57:52,940 --> 01:57:55,192
<i>♪ Won't you ring old hammer ♪</i>

2097
01:57:55,276 --> 01:57:57,319
<i>Pete thinks we're gonna be
okay. All right?</i>

2098
01:57:58,904 --> 01:58:00,990
<i>♪ Won't you ring old hammer? ♪</i>

2099
01:58:01,073 --> 01:58:04,285
<i>♪ Let your hammer ring ♪</i>
-[sighs]

2100
01:58:04,368 --> 01:58:05,494
[woman 1] <i>We want Bob!</i>

2101
01:58:05,578 --> 01:58:08,622
[audience shouting] <i>Bob! Bob! Bob!</i>

2102
01:58:08,706 --> 01:58:12,084
[Mangold]
So all these shots where you see crowds,

2103
01:58:12,167 --> 01:58:16,088
whenever you see the crowds
raking off into the distance like this,

2104
01:58:16,171 --> 01:58:19,133
those are all digital crowds
after the first seven rows.

2105
01:58:20,384 --> 01:58:21,594
[Alan] <i>We have one more act now.</i>

2106
01:58:21,677 --> 01:58:23,304
<i>We love you, Bob!</i>

2107
01:58:23,387 --> 01:58:24,763
<i>All right, okay.</i>

2108
01:58:24,847 --> 01:58:26,974
[woman 2] <i>We want Bob!</i>

2109
01:58:27,057 --> 01:58:30,060
Now, this is also where
the movie enters a sequence

2110
01:58:30,144 --> 01:58:35,524
where I felt like we had to be a little
more meticulous in our attention to detail

2111
01:58:35,608 --> 01:58:39,194
because this concert
was actually shot. Right?

2112
01:58:39,278 --> 01:58:41,655
Not in the way we shot it, with--

2113
01:58:41,739 --> 01:58:43,657
They didn't have cameras on the stage

2114
01:58:43,741 --> 01:58:45,868
looking out like this
over Bob to the audience,

2115
01:58:45,951 --> 01:58:48,537
but it was shot in a more perfunctory way.

2116
01:58:48,621 --> 01:58:51,123
But we could really see what went down.

2117
01:58:53,334 --> 01:58:58,130
These are the actual songs he played,
and this is the reaction the crowd had,

2118
01:58:58,213 --> 01:59:01,759
which is a distinct mixture
of some pleasure

2119
01:59:01,842 --> 01:59:03,802
and a lot of frustration and anger.

2120
01:59:07,890 --> 01:59:12,144
A lot of it because the Bob they were
watching holding an electric guitar

2121
01:59:12,227 --> 01:59:16,732
just didn't look like the Bob
or sound like the Bob they wanted.

2122
01:59:16,815 --> 01:59:21,362
You know, we've all had that person, that
recording artist, in music where we go,

2123
01:59:21,445 --> 01:59:25,074
"Oh, you know, I miss their old albums.
I like their old albums."

2124
01:59:25,157 --> 01:59:27,201
Well, that's how this crowd felt.

2125
01:59:27,284 --> 01:59:31,664
More than just the betrayal of the sound
was also what he was leaving behind.

2126
01:59:31,747 --> 01:59:34,833
He just didn't want,
as he said in the previous scene,

2127
01:59:34,917 --> 01:59:37,878
to sing "Blowin' in the Wind"
for the rest of his life.

2128
01:59:38,629 --> 01:59:39,463
<i>What the hell is this?</i>

2129
01:59:41,924 --> 01:59:45,427
<i>♪ I ain't gonna work on
Maggie's farm no more ♪</i>

2130
01:59:45,511 --> 01:59:47,888
[man 2] <i>No.! This is all wrong.!</i>

2131
01:59:49,890 --> 01:59:51,475
<i>♪ Well, I wake up in the morning ♪</i>

2132
01:59:51,558 --> 01:59:53,560
<i>♪ Fold my hands and pray for rain ♪</i>

2133
01:59:53,644 --> 01:59:55,771
<i>♪ I got a head full of ideas ♪</i>

2134
01:59:55,854 --> 01:59:57,314
<i>♪ That are drivin' me insane ♪</i>

2135
01:59:57,398 --> 01:59:58,691
<i>-What are you doing?</i>
-[audience booing]

2136
01:59:58,774 --> 02:00:01,068
<i>♪ It's a shame the way
she makes me scrub the floor ♪</i>

2137
02:00:04,113 --> 02:00:07,408
We shot this sequence very much--
There was really only one way to do it

2138
02:00:07,491 --> 02:00:11,620
given how many actors and how many extras
and how much time we had,

2139
02:00:11,704 --> 02:00:13,455
which is kind of like a one-act play

2140
02:00:13,539 --> 02:00:15,999
in the sense
that this whole concert sequence,

2141
02:00:16,083 --> 02:00:20,379
all the songs, all the actions,
I rehearsed like it was a play

2142
02:00:20,462 --> 02:00:23,006
and then we ran it
from every angle we needed.

2143
02:00:24,466 --> 02:00:26,593
The widest shots, we would run every actor

2144
02:00:26,677 --> 02:00:29,388
just doing all their stuff
from beginning to end,

2145
02:00:29,471 --> 02:00:34,351
so we had like, 22-minute takes where
Timmy would come out, sing these songs,

2146
02:00:34,435 --> 02:00:37,938
and all the action
that would transpire would happen

2147
02:00:38,021 --> 02:00:39,773
in each shot from beginning to end.

2148
02:00:41,150 --> 02:00:45,237
<i>♪ I ain't gonna work on
Maggie's farm no more ♪</i>

2149
02:00:45,320 --> 02:00:46,321
<i>♪ Oh, no! ♪</i>

2150
02:00:47,239 --> 02:00:49,116
<i>-Turn it down!
-What?</i>

2151
02:00:49,199 --> 02:00:50,576
<i>Turn the fucking music down!</i>

2152
02:00:50,659 --> 02:00:51,744
<i>-Hey, calm down.
-No, no.</i>

2153
02:00:51,827 --> 02:00:53,537
<i>-You work for us!
-Hey!</i>

2154
02:00:53,620 --> 02:00:55,330
-Lomax!
-[Alan grunts]

2155
02:00:57,166 --> 02:00:59,793
<i>Just like we set it this afternoon, all
right? Nobody touches the board.</i>

2156
02:00:59,877 --> 02:01:01,378
[both grunting]

2157
02:01:02,504 --> 02:01:03,338
<i>Now, hold it!</i>

2158
02:01:03,422 --> 02:01:05,466
[indistinct shouting]

2159
02:01:07,301 --> 02:01:09,219
<i>-What the hell's going on?
-Just ignore it.</i>

2160
02:01:11,513 --> 02:01:13,974
<i>Sorry, Ode Ha- Sorry.</i>

2161
02:01:14,641 --> 02:01:16,018
<i>Get off the stage!</i>

2162
02:01:16,101 --> 02:01:17,269
<i>Keep playing-.</i>

2163
02:01:19,104 --> 02:01:21,857
Again, you know, I'm not
trying to pick sides here.

2164
02:01:21,940 --> 02:01:25,736
I think, you know, movies so often end up
in a situation like this,

2165
02:01:25,819 --> 02:01:27,738
a kind of confrontation in the end

2166
02:01:27,821 --> 02:01:31,867
in which you're supposed to be rooting for
one side against another side.

2167
02:01:31,950 --> 02:01:35,996
I really liked the idea
that we would just bring you this mess,

2168
02:01:36,079 --> 02:01:38,165
this big emotional mess, this kind of--

2169
02:01:38,248 --> 02:01:41,251
It's like a family Thanksgiving run amok

2170
02:01:41,335 --> 02:01:44,880
with everyone getting
in a big argument and storming away,

2171
02:01:44,963 --> 02:01:47,549
and let you pick who you
agree with or disagree with.

2172
02:01:47,633 --> 02:01:49,676
'Cause I love all these characters.

2173
02:01:49,760 --> 02:01:54,973
I love Pete Seeger and Toshi Seeger
and their love for folk music,

2174
02:01:55,057 --> 02:01:57,810
and I love the folk community

2175
02:01:57,893 --> 02:02:02,356
and their commitment
to this kind of anachronistic sound

2176
02:02:02,439 --> 02:02:04,483
and how it could save the world.

2177
02:02:04,566 --> 02:02:09,780
But I also love rock and roll, and I
appreciate the restlessness of artists,

2178
02:02:09,863 --> 02:02:12,282
that they can't just keep doing
the same thing all their lives.

2179
02:02:12,366 --> 02:02:15,327
You know, Pete was a different
kind of artist than Bob.

2180
02:02:15,410 --> 02:02:18,956
Pete's art was really
the movement he was shepherding,

2181
02:02:19,039 --> 02:02:22,167
where Bob's art was his music, period.

2182
02:02:22,251 --> 02:02:24,044
And they had different agendas.

2183
02:02:24,127 --> 02:02:26,338
And that's so much of what
I try and get out here,

2184
02:02:26,421 --> 02:02:29,383
is that instead of us
having to pick a side

2185
02:02:29,466 --> 02:02:33,053
and feel like one side is wrong
or one side is right,

2186
02:02:33,136 --> 02:02:37,808
that we just get to experience this very
real emotional fracture

2187
02:02:37,891 --> 02:02:41,895
between a lot of wonderful people whose
hearts are in the right places.

2188
02:02:54,992 --> 02:02:56,034
<i>Pete!</i>

2189
02:02:59,288 --> 02:03:01,164
<i>All right, all right.</i>

2190
02:03:01,248 --> 02:03:04,710
[Mangold]
This moment where Bob gets called Judas

2191
02:03:04,793 --> 02:03:07,379
actually did not occur at Newport '65,

2192
02:03:07,462 --> 02:03:10,215
but occurred at a concert
about a month earlier

2193
02:03:10,299 --> 02:03:12,801
where he played a little bit
of rock and roll in London,

2194
02:03:12,885 --> 02:03:15,053
and someone in the audience
called him Judas.

2195
02:03:15,137 --> 02:03:19,516
But Timmy and I felt like we should stick
it in and kind of just represent it,

2196
02:03:19,600 --> 02:03:24,313
because it really was a way of looking at
the way some of his fans felt about him,

2197
02:03:24,396 --> 02:03:29,109
that he had turned his back
and was suddenly betraying them.

2198
02:03:34,865 --> 02:03:37,200
<i>♪ Once upon a time you dressed so fine ♪</i>

2199
02:03:37,284 --> 02:03:40,037
<i>♪ Threw the bums a dime in your prime ♪</i>

2200
02:03:41,121 --> 02:03:42,748
<i>♪ Didn't you? ♪</i>

2201
02:03:45,250 --> 02:03:47,794
<i>♪ People call say "Beware doll
You're bound to fall" ♪</i>

2202
02:03:47,878 --> 02:03:52,049
<i>♪ You thought they were all kiddin' you ♪</i>

2203
02:03:55,677 --> 02:03:59,806
<i>♪ You used to laugh about ♪</i>

2204
02:03:59,890 --> 02:04:04,478
Again, this entire sequence was
also performed live by Timmy.

2205
02:04:04,561 --> 02:04:07,981
This entire set is a live performance.

2206
02:04:08,065 --> 02:04:09,942
[woman 3] <i>This is a folk fest/val!</i>

2207
02:04:10,025 --> 02:04:14,988
<i>♪ Now you don't seem so proud ♪</i>

2208
02:04:15,072 --> 02:04:18,450
And you know,
it's not just to be able to brag about it,

2209
02:04:18,533 --> 02:04:20,786
in doing press on the movie.

2210
02:04:20,869 --> 02:04:24,498
There's a real value to it
that extends way beyond that,

2211
02:04:24,581 --> 02:04:28,752
which is just that there's
so many discoveries the actor can make

2212
02:04:28,835 --> 02:04:31,421
when they can control
the recording they're making.

2213
02:04:31,505 --> 02:04:34,299
Like, this close-up of Timmy
is an example.

2214
02:04:34,383 --> 02:04:37,386
He's just living in Bob's skin here.

2215
02:04:37,469 --> 02:04:41,640
He doesn't have to worry about matching
his vocals to some prerecorded track.

2216
02:04:41,723 --> 02:04:45,352
He can actually just be alive as Bob,

2217
02:04:45,435 --> 02:04:47,145
phrasing the lyrics,

2218
02:04:47,229 --> 02:04:53,235
phrasing the music exactly as would befit
the moment for where he is

2219
02:04:53,318 --> 02:04:54,820
with the audience, with the crowd,

2220
02:04:54,903 --> 02:04:57,489
with what's going on backstage
and what he's feeling.

2221
02:05:07,457 --> 02:05:09,334
[audience booing]

2222
02:05:09,418 --> 02:05:10,877
<i>Let's get the fuck out of here.</i>

2223
02:05:10,961 --> 02:05:12,879
<i>Oh, shit.</i>

2224
02:05:13,714 --> 02:05:14,923
<i>God damn.</i>

2225
02:05:15,007 --> 02:05:17,592
<i>Bobby, you broke it down
and blew my mind! Fuck!</i>

2226
02:05:17,676 --> 02:05:19,344
[Albert] <i>Are you okay? Did you get hit?</i>

2227
02:05:19,428 --> 02:05:20,595
-<i>Are you okay?</i>
-[Bob] <i>Nah.</i>

2228
02:05:20,679 --> 02:05:22,139
[Peter] <i>Bobby was... All right.</i>

2229
02:05:24,474 --> 02:05:25,642
<i>Okay. Listen.</i>

2230
02:05:25,726 --> 02:05:28,353
<i>He was only scheduled for three songs and...</i>

2231
02:05:28,437 --> 02:05:30,564
<i>Maybe you wanna go back out there,</i>

2232
02:05:30,647 --> 02:05:31,815
<i>and let out a little steam?</i>

2233
02:05:31,898 --> 02:05:32,941
[Bob] <i>The hell you talking about?</i>

2234
02:05:33,025 --> 02:05:34,234
<i>Why would I wanna do that, Albert?</i>

2235
02:05:34,317 --> 02:05:35,318
[Bobby] <i>To end the show.</i>

2236
02:05:35,402 --> 02:05:36,862
<i>We just ended the show, man. It's done.</i>

2237
02:05:36,945 --> 02:05:38,739
<i>Let's go. Pack up.</i>

2238
02:05:38,822 --> 02:05:43,702
[Mangold] I think the reason some people
see this concert as being so pivotal

2239
02:05:43,785 --> 02:05:45,787
beyond the simple character stories

2240
02:05:45,871 --> 02:05:51,376
that are getting kind of fractured and
exploding at this night-- on this night,

2241
02:05:51,460 --> 02:05:56,006
is that the world changed
so much around this moment.

2242
02:05:56,089 --> 02:06:01,011
Meaning that this concert
by Dylan at Newport

2243
02:06:01,094 --> 02:06:03,764
also becomes a kind of marker,

2244
02:06:03,847 --> 02:06:07,392
where it's not necessarily
that this concert changed everything,

2245
02:06:07,476 --> 02:06:12,022
but just that the late '60s,
the post-'65 '60s,

2246
02:06:12,105 --> 02:06:15,734
are very different than the pre-'65 '60s.

2247
02:06:15,817 --> 02:06:18,570
That in the years that follow '65,

2248
02:06:18,653 --> 02:06:22,365
the ascent of The Beatles,
of The Stones, the landing on the moon,

2249
02:06:22,449 --> 02:06:25,660
the hangover
after the series of assassinations

2250
02:06:25,744 --> 02:06:28,080
which will continue through the '60s--

2251
02:06:28,163 --> 02:06:32,501
you know, you're talking about losing
Kennedy, Malcolm X, Robert Kennedy--

2252
02:06:32,584 --> 02:06:34,377
escalation of the Vietnam War,

2253
02:06:34,461 --> 02:06:39,549
the arrival of the nuclear threat as an
ongoing reality for people to live under,

2254
02:06:39,633 --> 02:06:44,888
all of this kind of arrives-- the sexual
revolution, the feminist revolution,

2255
02:06:44,971 --> 02:06:50,268
all of this arrives in the years
right after '65 predominantly,

2256
02:06:50,352 --> 02:06:56,817
and the pre-'65 years
are kind of more naive and simple.

2257
02:06:56,900 --> 02:07:01,530
And that Bob's turn into this edgier music

2258
02:07:01,613 --> 02:07:05,450
is also a reflection
of the world becoming a lot edgier,

2259
02:07:05,534 --> 02:07:07,285
and a lot more complex.

2260
02:07:09,121 --> 02:07:11,706
As you can tell,
I find all this stuff really interesting,

2261
02:07:11,790 --> 02:07:15,669
and I felt that the best way
I could tell this story

2262
02:07:15,752 --> 02:07:20,924
was to be kind of observant
in the directorial style

2263
02:07:21,007 --> 02:07:23,927
that Phedon Papamichael and I
shot the movie.

2264
02:07:24,010 --> 02:07:28,056
I felt like we wanted to be stylish.
The movie, I think, is stylish.

2265
02:07:28,140 --> 02:07:31,059
It's a really cool-looking film,
and the lighting is beautiful,

2266
02:07:31,143 --> 02:07:35,188
and the camerawork
by Scott Sakamoto is brilliant.

2267
02:07:35,272 --> 02:07:40,569
But on top of all that,
we didn't want to be so stylized

2268
02:07:40,652 --> 02:07:44,906
or kind of aggressive with the camera
and movements that we made

2269
02:07:44,990 --> 02:07:50,162
that we distracted from the power of what
was going on in front of the lens.

2270
02:07:50,245 --> 02:07:52,414
I didn't wanna have
a kind of competition--

2271
02:07:52,497 --> 02:07:54,541
"look at me" versus "look at them."

2272
02:07:54,624 --> 02:07:57,502
I really wanted you to fall
into the eyes of these actors

2273
02:07:57,586 --> 02:08:02,591
as we watch Toshi seeing Bob drop off
the kind of intense feelings

2274
02:08:02,674 --> 02:08:04,342
that these people were having,

2275
02:08:04,426 --> 02:08:09,014
that I wanted to make sure the camera
recorded and Phedon and I got on film.

2276
02:08:09,097 --> 02:08:10,473
<i>All right.</i>

2277
02:08:10,557 --> 02:08:11,641
<i>Here you go.</i>

2278
02:08:12,726 --> 02:08:13,894
<i>Thanks, Johnny.</i>

2279
02:08:13,977 --> 02:08:15,353
<i>Got what they wanted.</i>

2280
02:08:16,521 --> 02:08:17,772
<i>Bob.</i>

2281
02:08:17,856 --> 02:08:20,233
<i>-Bob!</i>
-[Bob] <i>Gig's over, Toshi.</i>

2282
02:08:21,902 --> 02:08:22,986
<i>Go, go.</i>

2283
02:08:30,452 --> 02:08:32,495
[I upbeat rock music playing]

2284
02:08:36,249 --> 02:08:39,628
So in many ways, as I was saying,
this is a movie less about plot

2285
02:08:39,711 --> 02:08:41,171
and more about character.

2286
02:08:41,254 --> 02:08:44,382
And even more specifically
about growing up

2287
02:08:44,466 --> 02:08:47,385
and becoming who
you're supposed to become,

2288
02:08:47,469 --> 02:08:50,138
even if that doesn't make
everyone in your life happy.

2289
02:08:50,847 --> 02:08:52,349
It won't, you know.

2290
02:08:52,432 --> 02:08:54,434
I mean, I think most of us have realized--

2291
02:08:54,517 --> 02:08:59,481
I'm now 60 years old, and you can't make
everyone happy with every choice you make.

2292
02:08:59,564 --> 02:09:03,276
You can only make a choice
that has the most integrity

2293
02:09:03,360 --> 02:09:05,737
and makes the most sense
to you at the moment.

2294
02:09:05,820 --> 02:09:09,616
And so, these close friends and lovers

2295
02:09:09,699 --> 02:09:12,827
who celebrated and had
these intense times together,

2296
02:09:12,911 --> 02:09:16,539
each, after this kind of-- this explosion

2297
02:09:16,623 --> 02:09:20,585
and the reverberations
from it at Newport '65,

2298
02:09:20,669 --> 02:09:25,423
kind of move on to great success
and huge careers,

2299
02:09:25,507 --> 02:09:29,094
and some of them,
like Joan and Bob, will stay connected.

2300
02:09:29,177 --> 02:09:32,305
And Pete and Bob performed again
and saw each other.

2301
02:09:32,389 --> 02:09:36,476
But of course, it was never the same.
It never could be the same.

2302
02:09:36,559 --> 02:09:38,228
That's kind of the beauty of life

2303
02:09:38,311 --> 02:09:44,734
and something I've focused on in all the
films that I've written and directed,

2304
02:09:44,818 --> 02:09:50,240
which is this aspect of how, you know,
I think too often in movies

2305
02:09:50,323 --> 02:09:55,954
we put this kind of value on people being
together at the end of the film.

2306
02:09:56,037 --> 02:09:58,832
Which certainly, you know,
I did with <i>Walk the Line.</i>

2307
02:09:58,915 --> 02:10:04,713
And it is a value. Relationships are
everything, but nothing lasts forever.

2308
02:10:04,796 --> 02:10:07,215
Everything has future challenges
ahead of it,

2309
02:10:07,299 --> 02:10:12,512
and the real measure of the way,
at least I see it, that we get on in life

2310
02:10:12,595 --> 02:10:14,973
is having an effect on each other.

2311
02:10:15,807 --> 02:10:18,560
Have we changed each other?

2312
02:10:18,643 --> 02:10:22,063
Have we, for a while, touched each other?

2313
02:10:22,147 --> 02:10:25,025
And "for a while"
is good enough sometimes.

2314
02:10:25,108 --> 02:10:27,527
Not every relationship can be forever.

2315
02:10:27,610 --> 02:10:32,073
Not every relationship can
withstand the changes of time

2316
02:10:32,157 --> 02:10:35,535
and family and politics and culture.

2317
02:10:35,618 --> 02:10:42,042
But the reality is that for a moment,
for these five years,

2318
02:10:42,125 --> 02:10:45,712
these people all shared
something extremely triumphant

2319
02:10:45,795 --> 02:10:48,965
and meaningful and moving together

2320
02:10:49,049 --> 02:10:51,509
and helped change the world.

2321
02:10:51,593 --> 02:10:55,221
And that couldn't last.
Those things can never last.

2322
02:10:55,305 --> 02:10:57,724
And in many ways, that's why I saw this,

2323
02:10:57,807 --> 02:11:04,439
as I opened telling you, as a film about a
series of arrivals and departures,

2324
02:11:04,522 --> 02:11:07,067
or a kind of two goodbyes, really.

2325
02:11:07,150 --> 02:11:10,028
Bob saying goodbye
to the young man in Minnesota.

2326
02:11:10,111 --> 02:11:13,156
Robert Zimmerman saying goodbye
to the young man in Minnesota

2327
02:11:13,239 --> 02:11:16,201
and becoming Bob Dylan, in a sense.

2328
02:11:16,284 --> 02:11:20,830
And then Bob Dylan having to say
goodbye to this world

2329
02:11:20,914 --> 02:11:24,542
because it had no longer become one,
if everyone was being honest,

2330
02:11:24,626 --> 02:11:26,127
that was working for everyone.

2331
02:11:28,254 --> 02:11:32,258
But I love this idea
that the last place he goes

2332
02:11:32,342 --> 02:11:35,011
is to see Woody before he hits the road,

2333
02:11:35,095 --> 02:11:39,432
who was the other really pure
relationship, like Sylvie, in the film,

2334
02:11:39,516 --> 02:11:41,559
who never really wanted anything from Bob

2335
02:11:41,643 --> 02:11:45,563
other than him to continue
to pursue his talents.

2336
02:11:46,815 --> 02:11:49,818
About a month and a half
before we started shooting,

2337
02:11:49,901 --> 02:11:54,781
in the dead of winter, Timmy made this
week-long trip to Hibbing, Minnesota

2338
02:11:54,864 --> 02:11:59,119
to investigate and just breathe in the air
of the place that Bob came from,

2339
02:11:59,202 --> 02:12:02,914
the real place Bob came from
and grew up as a child.

2340
02:12:02,997 --> 02:12:06,793
And he toured his house
and he went to his high school

2341
02:12:06,876 --> 02:12:11,256
and he just kind of tooled around
and absorbed the vibe.

2342
02:12:11,339 --> 02:12:15,093
But there's one other thing Timmy
discovered that was kind of miraculous,

2343
02:12:15,176 --> 02:12:20,682
which is he found a gentleman who had been
collecting Bob Dylan paraphernalia

2344
02:12:20,765 --> 02:12:22,642
from the Hibbing area.

2345
02:12:22,725 --> 02:12:27,522
And among all these objects
there was a record album, a 78 record,

2346
02:12:27,605 --> 02:12:30,358
and it was a recording of Woody's.

2347
02:12:30,442 --> 02:12:34,863
But on the plain brown
wrapper of the record,

2348
02:12:34,946 --> 02:12:37,991
Bob Dylan, 17- or 18-year-old Bob Dylan,

2349
02:12:38,074 --> 02:12:40,535
had drawn a picture on the record sleeve

2350
02:12:40,618 --> 02:12:43,163
and it was a picture
that showed him, Bob Dylan,

2351
02:12:43,246 --> 02:12:48,293
standing in the lower left
holding a guitar case from behind,

2352
02:12:48,376 --> 02:12:51,504
and then it showed a kind of winding road

2353
02:12:51,588 --> 02:12:54,757
going up to the upper right
corner of the album sleeve.

2354
02:12:54,841 --> 02:12:57,802
And in the upper right corner
was a picture of New York City,

2355
02:12:57,886 --> 02:13:01,890
and underneath it was written,
"Woody in NYC."

2356
02:13:01,973 --> 02:13:07,395
So even before he ever left,
Bob was dreaming--

2357
02:13:07,479 --> 02:13:11,941
Young Bob Dylan, you know, 18-year-old
Bob Dylan was imagining himself

2358
02:13:12,025 --> 02:13:14,444
trekking this long road
to get to New York City

2359
02:13:14,527 --> 02:13:17,530
and find his hero, Woody, in New York.

2360
02:13:17,614 --> 02:13:21,493
And when Timmy found this
it was such a touchstone for us,

2363
02:13:21,576 --> 02:13:23,495
because it kind of showed

2364
02:13:23,578 --> 02:13:27,624
that this young man had really been
envisioning this journey

2365
02:13:27,707 --> 02:13:31,044
and this transformation for years

2366
02:13:31,127 --> 02:13:33,880
and was dying and itching to make it,

2367
02:13:33,963 --> 02:13:36,633
similar to the transition
into rock and roll

2368
02:13:36,716 --> 02:13:39,260
that he started itching
to make for several years

2369
02:13:39,344 --> 02:13:44,474
before he finally blew it out
on the stage in Newport '65.

2370
02:13:44,557 --> 02:13:46,184
Anyway, we've come to an end.

2371
02:13:46,267 --> 02:13:49,729
If you've made it this far, I wish there
was a special prize I could offer you

2372
02:13:49,812 --> 02:13:52,982
for riding through this commentary
to the very, very end,

2373
02:13:53,066 --> 02:13:56,277
but even if you haven't
and you've left long ago, fare thee well.

2374
02:13:56,361 --> 02:14:00,406
And if you're still with me,
God bless you and thank you for listening.

2375
02:14:00,490 --> 02:14:04,994
Everyone who worked on this film and all
the names you see coming before you

2376
02:14:05,078 --> 02:14:07,288
are people who take real pride
in their work

2377
02:14:07,372 --> 02:14:09,958
and really put their heart
and their souls into this film.

2378
02:14:10,041 --> 02:14:13,711
The paychecks weren't large
but the passion was,

2379
02:14:13,795 --> 02:14:14,712
and we all gathered

2380
02:14:14,796 --> 02:14:17,757
to re-create a world we all really wanted
to have a chance to play in.

2381
02:14:17,840 --> 02:14:18,967
And we did.

2382
02:14:19,050 --> 02:14:20,969
And so whatever happens with this movie--

2383
02:14:21,052 --> 02:14:23,137
this is before it even comes out--

2384
02:14:23,221 --> 02:14:24,597
I hope it does well.

2385
02:14:24,681 --> 02:14:27,308
But beyond all that,
our greatest reward has already happened,

2386
02:14:27,392 --> 02:14:30,520
which is the process
of making this world come alive

2387
02:14:30,603 --> 02:14:32,522
and getting to live in it for this time.

2388
02:14:32,605 --> 02:14:34,107
Thank you very much for listening.

2389
02:15:34,083 --> 02:15:35,209
[I music fades]

2390
02:15:35,293 --> 02:15:37,503
[♪ folk music playing,
"Blowin' In The Wind"]

2391
02:18:21,542 --> 02:18:22,877
[♪ music stops]

2392
02:18:24,629 --> 02:18:26,881
[I folk music playing,
"Mr. Tambourine Man"]

2393
02:20:48,314 --> 02:20:49,482
[♪ music stops]